Re: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It is the interesting idea to see where people tend to look at the map 
mostly and improve these parts as a priority. I think this relation 
could be also inverted.


I read recently an article "Wikipedia edits have massive impact on 
tourism, say economists" [1]. This article reports that it was proven by 
the researchers at the Collegio Carlo Alberto in Turin, Italy, and ZEW 
in Mannheim, Germany, that improving a Wikipedia article of a town, 
adding some quality pictures in the article, increases the flow of 
visitors to this town.


I think that improving the map of an area, adding some POIs, GPS traces, 
links to Wikidata items, links to quality ground and aerial photos etc. 
will also have positive influence on tourism, general security, and 
economic activity.


I agree that we are to work primarily on the areas which are already in 
demand, but it makes also sense to map blank regions. If possible to 
visit them to see if there is something up there. More often than not 
there is an interesting monument, an archeological site, a footpath, etc.


[1] 
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/sep/18/wikipedia-edits-have-massive-impact-on-tourism-say-economists 
(published Fri 18 Sep 2020)


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 10/20/20 15:31, Darafei Praliaskouski via talk wrote:

Hi,

Fixed links:

Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity:
https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity

Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity:
https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity

The other layers are available in the right Overlay panel.

Have a good day.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:46 PM Darafei Praliaskouski  wrote:

Hi mappers,

We’ve polished our visualization of the need for OpenStreetMap data,
and its quality. We’ve been building Disaster.Ninja tool to assist HOT
in their activation process, but believe it’s also useful for the
general mapping community.

Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity layer lets you see where people look at
the map tiles versus when the map was last edited. Good way to see
undermapped regions that are explored by the users in search of data.
We base the layer on tile views information, thanks Operations Working
group for making it available for such analysis.

https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity

Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity is now pointing to a lot more
missed buildings. This became possible thanks to Copernicus releasing
a high resolution global landcover classification raster, and
Microsoft providing the computer vision detected buildings for Canada,
USA, Uganda and Tanzania. Look at the gaps here:

https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity

I know this layer was used to plan some mapping parties in Ukraine already.

Check out the other layers if you haven’t seen them, too. :)

To support this visualization we combined all the available public
datasets (Facebook Population, OpenStreetMap, Microsoft buildings,
Copernicus) into a single world population dataset. If you need it for
your analysis, get it here:
https://data.humdata.org/dataset/kontur-population-dataset

Hope to hear your thoughts on this update.

Darafei

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples of good paid mapping?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Good morning,

I agree that the existing tags are to be used. And they should be used 
correctly, as it's described in the wiki. It is applicable not only to 
professional but also to hobby mapping.


I think that it makes sense to survey objects before mapping by 
physically visiting them. During a survey one can record the GPS traces 
around the object of interest. It could be done with a dedicated GPS unit.


A modern GPS unit is capable to record traces for 24+ hours without 
interruption. So even the approaching roads (or railroads) could be 
traced. Having these traces in a map editor will let us see that the 
satellite images are aligned correctly, or to see if the satellite 
imagery outdated and what is not on it yet.


It is also possible to make some ground and aerial (oblique & vertical) 
HD  photos of the object from different angles during survey. And not 
only of the building itself, but also of other POIs around such as say 
bus or tram stops.


Having the photos from the survey would allow to add later the building 
levels, opening hours, bus stops names, etc. It is possible to upload 
the best selected photos to the Wikimedia or Flickr (after blurring 
vehicle registration plates and faces on them for privacy) and publish 
the corresponding links on the OSM map, so that other mappers can use 
these images too. Before uploading photos, the GPS coordinates can be 
added to them automatically from the recorded GPS trace.


Another big survey topic is the elevation [1]. Human settlements are 
usually located near water. It could be of interest to know if an object 
is above or below the water level of a nearby sea, lake, or river, since 
the risk of flood could be evaluated. However, measuring an elevation 
with an altimeter [2] is not as simple as it sounds, but it is doable.


My point is that the good mapping, both amateur and professional, could 
involve not only mapping via the satellite imagery, but also the 
on-the-ground surveys using such modern tools as the dedicated GPS 
units, ultra-light quad-copters, portable HD photo-cameras, altimeters, 
etc. Sometimes it is not possible to understand from the vertical 
satellite image, seeing only the rectangle of the roof and the shadow, 
what the object is exactly, how many levels it has, what additional 
features or services it contains. Besides, the satellite imagery in some 
areas could be outdated or misaligned, and a survey also helps to 
understand to what degree, so that we use it properly.


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ele
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altimeter

Have a good day!

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 9/11/20 22:06, James wrote:
I've been paid in the past to do mapping for someone, but I was 
already an active experienced osm mapper beforehand.


How to be successful:

В Listen to osm experts/community and not fight against them

Use existing tags on the wiki, don't invent your own

Verify data accuracy as muchВ as you can, not dump data

When merging data, verify if data is older than yours, locals usually 
have a better sense of what buildings/pois have been demolished/exist


On Fri., Sep. 11, 2020, 3:56 p.m. MichaЕ‚ Brzozowski, 
mailto:www.ha...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Hi all,
Do we have any examples of companies that do paid mapping
(preferably at scale) and do it right?
Maybe leading by example will help other mapping teams get along
better with local OSM communities?

MichaЕ‚

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM nicknames are Unicode characters? (not Ascii?)

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Practically all people in Russia studied a foreign language within the 
compulsory education system. Usually it is English, French, or German.
How well they may know the language is debatable, however I am sure that 
typing several Latin letters would not be a challenge.


Besides in such disciplines as mathematics or chemistry the Latin 
letters are being used widely for variables in formulas, etc.
Customarily, a keyboard with the Russian layout has got also the Latin 
letters on the keys (buttons) [1].


I do not know exactly about Japan and China, but I guess that it is 
about the same there too.


[1] 
https://www.pngfind.com/pngs/m/326-3264221_russian-keyboard-layout-norwegian-keyboard-layout-windows-hd.png


On 28-May-20 15:28, Maarten Deen wrote:
I'm sure this is a feature that's very helpful for everyone not 
writing in latin script (Russia, China, Japan, etc).




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: trace and signs

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Here are some more examples demonstrating that signs could be of 
interest to travelers.


- in this video the popular British travel video-blogger goes to great 
lengths to get to the specific sign to record his video: 
https://youtu.be/6RQlQDp1uiU?t=90


- it is customary during long distance cycling tours to take photos near 
the signs, as it would confirm the itinerary of the tour:


https://www.highlux.co.nz/category/cycle-touring/

or

https://www.alamy.com/fully-packed-bicycle-long-distance-bike-parked-at-frontier-sign-chile-argentina-good-bye-argentina-image184906663.html

Best regards,

Oleksiy



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: trace and signs

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It is a very good question. I always search in a park the sign which 
bears its name. Some parks have such a sign and some don't.


It takes sometimes a lot of time to find the sign with the park's name. 
First of all, you do not know if it exists at all. So you have to walk 
several times around, looking at places where it might be.


For example I found this sign with the park's name: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Centre_intercommunal_de_sports,_loisirs_et_nature_des_Evaux#/media/File:Centre-des-Evaux-3.jpg 

I took its photo and I used it in creating this Wikipedia article: 
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_intercommunal_de_sports,_loisirs_et_nature_des_Evaux


It helps a lot if a discussion begins about the park's article. The 
image of the sign with the park's name is a good proof that it's the 
official park, and that its name reflected correctly on the map and in 
the article.


In this park I did not find the sign: 
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parc_Baud-Bovy and the article, which I 
created, was almost removed by moderators. I had to prove park's 
existence via secondary sources.


So having a sign with the park's official name tagged and marked on the 
map, would save a lot of time while surveying a park. The park is 
usually quite large, it may have several entrances, and it is not 
possible to tell where the sign with the park's name could be, or if it 
exists at all.


Best regards,
Oleksiy


On 4/23/20 23:29, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
... how do you tag a sign ... park ...that is name of the place, place 
name.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] It's time to manage libraries properly in OSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Certainly, it is a good idea.

There is the list of 32 countries on the  page: 
https://english.slks.dk/libraries/library-standards/isil/ . Does it mean 
that other countries did not join the ISIL classification yet?


I wanted to add an ISIL code for a library in a country which is not in 
this list, but I could not find its code via search engines.


Best regards,

O.


On 21-Apr-20 10:20, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
There is an international standard identifier for libraries, "ISIL" / 
ISO 15511, maintained by the Danish /Slots- og Kulturstyrelsen/, which 
I would recommend to add: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref:isil


Cheers
Martin



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] It's time to manage libraries properly in OSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I would like to remark that many libraries have their Wikipedia 
articles. Even when a library does not have an article, it could be 
created. The best way to approach this is to do a survey of the library.
For example, I created the article (plus the Wikidata item and Wikimedia 
category) for this library: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1958300384


I took some images which reflect its location, type of the building, 
interior of the library, the exact title, as displayed on the entrance 
sign, the street number, etc. and added the corresponding links to the 
OSM node.


Even though it is a relatively small library no one in the community 
contested so far the noteworthiness of the article, what is not always 
the case when creating an article on some other subject.


So one more thing to do when mapping a library is to add some meaningful 
quality images, if necessary GPS traces, i.e to do a dedicated survey 
with consequent publishing of the results in the OSM.


Best regards,
O.

On 20-Apr-20 22:00, Christian Rogel wrote:
We are generally aware of the importance of the libraries, as they are 
numerous and useful by their variety (public, academic, specialized, 
school…).
But, why they have been so neglected by us, the mappers, seing them on 
the ground, getting maybe frequently in ?

So poors are the tags for describing them.

Yes, you can add the address, the phone, the opening hours and a few 
precisions. See ameniy = library 

But, you cannot indicate which public is admitted, if most of the 
collection is visible, which kind of documents is displayed and/or 
lended, and so on…


I suggest that every person capable proposes some categorization and 
enriches the wiki page above.


From a few hours discussion on the French OSM list, we were looming 
around using «  library:for = {public targeted} and library_collection.

But, there are more than 2 angles in library and information services.

Note : a map of the libraries in the world 
 was launched years ago by the 
International Federation of Library Associations (IFLA), but we do not 
see any location, the figures per countries only.
Let us remember the huge number of 2.6 M libraries registered. The 
French version on Google Map displays 162 locations.


81 500 /amenity=library/ are present in OSM database today 
 20 
apr. (5 500 in France). We can reach a richer content.



Christian Rogel
Retired chief librarian (France)


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] healthsites.io breaks OSM data, do not use

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 3/21/20 17:39, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

the "healthsites.io" web app allows you to contribute data to OSM,
however if you modify existing OSM objects, it throws away all tags it
does not know of. Until this bug is fixed, please refrain from using
healthsites.io!

You can track progress here
https://github.com/healthsites/healthsites/issues/1357#issuecomment-602068556

Bye
Frederik

It is one more lesson of this outbreak that the emergency response tools 
are to be prepared and tested well beforehand.


By the way, a viral respiratory infection can be stopped, or at least 
slowed down, by mere physical separation of hosts, i.e. people, because 
it stops the exponential chain reaction.


That is why mapping with the reliable editor say an archeological site 
in a forest could be also very beneficial. As some people could hike to 
it on weekend, instead of going to an overcrowded city park.


And we shall also remember of ambulances. Sometimes it is very hard for 
a driver to find a location of an address. In some cases it may take 
hours. So the general overall improvement of the map should continue.


Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] We need your help to thwart this pandemic!

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 20-Mar-20 11:28, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



Am Fr., 20. März 2020 um 09:17 Uhr schrieb Warin 
<61sundow...@gmail.com >:


If the area is higher risk than an adjacent area then encouraging
people to go from the high risk area to the low risk are will
simply increase the risk for those who were in what was a lower
risk area.

For an individual this is great idea.

For the community as a whole this is an extremely bad idea.



I had the same thought. It would be an instruction to help the virus 
spread more quickly.


Cheers
Martin

___

I think we should stay the course, to continue to build the quality map. 
And not only of urban areas but also of the the countryside. Perhaps 
some medical facilities, or summer camps for children will have to be 
constructed outside the cities in future.


In any case, the good map will be an asset for the planners.

Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is not the place for dissemination of authoritative data sets

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

The fundamental point of this discussion is that the AI, the Artificial 
Intelligence, does not exist yet. It is kind of a marketing gimmick.


Sure, there are good computer programs, there are sophisticated 
automatons, but there is no AI, except in movies and serials.


Let me give you an example. There are machines in restaurants, which 
wash the dishes. But the dishes must be cleaned manually from the food 
leftovers, before putting them into the dish-washing machine. The army 
of humans worldwide, millions of workers do this hard debilitating work 
every day and night, because there is no AI good enough to pick up the 
dish and clean it without breaking it.


Certainly, this problem could be solved by standardizing the dishes, 
making them suitable for the automation, but my point is that there is 
no AI smart enough to to do such a simple task, which even a child could 
do easily. And we want to give the "AI" of this sort the task of drawing 
the map of this complicated world.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 3/19/20 12:28, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

a propos a recent statement from our friends at Facebook in which they
make plans for the future of our project,

https://tech.fb.com/map-with-ai-updates/


Beyond AI-based data sets, one of the biggest challenges for OSM is importing 
even readily available authoritative data sets
...
our hope is that RapiD can become a tool that’s simple enough for anyone to 
import and verify new data sets and to make use of these powerful tools

I would like to reiterate that the "challenge" is not that it is
difficult to import "authoritative data sets"; the problem is that
authoritative data sets are fundamentally incompatible with the way we
operate in OpenStreetMap. To quote just an obvious example, the
government of India certainly has an authoritative data set about where
their boundaries are, it's just that this does not align with facts on
the ground and hence our data is different. The past has shown that
petrol station chains also have "authoritative" data sets about their
stations but they are riddled with bugs, and not suitable for wholesale
import.

I think that someone who cannot respect these basic tenets of
OpenStreetMap - that mappers on the ground have the last word on what
gets into OSM and what not - shouldn't be allowed to publish software
that interacts with our database. I think we should disallow any
contributions made with RapID/map-with-ai and friends.

Bye
Frederik




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 3/4/20 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:




Mar 4, 2020, 16:42 by oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch:

It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map,
but also to add (or verify)
the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items themselves,

Using OSM data?

I would rather say using the ground truth. Preferably by visiting an 
object, verifying its location by GPS device, by direct observation, 
taking some photos for its Wikimedia category, recording a GPS trace, 
talking to locals, etc.


And updating both, the OSM data and the Wikidata item.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 03-Mar-20 17:17, Andy Mabbett wrote:

Some of you will remember, around five years ago, a debate about
whether or not we should add Wikidata IDs to OSM.

We did, and so here's "EqualStreetNames.Brussels", an example of what
is now possible:

https://equalstreetnames.brussels/en/index.html

It shows streets in Brussels named after men and women, visualized
with data from OpenStreetMap and Wikidata.

Does anyone have other good examples?

I wrote a simple tool, which allows to view the Wikidata items, which 
have the coordinates in the items themselves, on the OSM map:


http://ausleuchtung.ch/geo_wiki/?lat=46.66761954912767=6.472320556640626=13=en=wkd=3

It is done via the MediaWikiAPI (in areas with large concentration of 
Wikidata items reduce the radius from 10 to 2 or even to 1 km).


It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map, but also 
to add (or verify) the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items 
themselves, so that they could be viewed on the OSM map via this and 
other similar tools.


Another thing, - quite often a Wikidata item may happen not to have a 
title, i.e. its label in English was not created yet (in this case, this 
tool shows "en title is absent"  on the geo-marker text). However, it is 
relatively easy to add the label's translation in English and also in 
other languages for a Wikidata item. In other words, some Wikidata items 
themselves may benefit from attention.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] missing maps? no: missing GPS traces.

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Mario,

I switched from an app to the dedicated GPS device. It is for now the 
Garmin eTrex 35 Touch (no affiliation). It is capable to record a GPS 
trace for about 20 hours on the pair of cheap AA alkaline batteries.


Here is, for example, the 431 km GPS trace I recorded in Mexico from 
inside a bus: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4330126920 , or 
the 488 km GPS trace I recorded in Ukraine from inside the train. I 
published these traces also at the OSM.


This device is using EGNOS [1], the European Geostationary Navigation 
Overlay Service, a satellite based augmentation system, in Europe, and 
the WAAS [2], the Wide Area Augmentation System, in the North America.


This GPS tracker is quite rugged. It can survive being in the rain for 
hours or dropped on a hard surface. But most important it works for 
hours without discharging my communication device.


It has got also its share of disadvantages. It has modes for hiking, 
cycling, climbing, and even fishing, but no modes for the train or the 
bus. If you look carefully at the above mentioned traces you may notice 
that they were recorded in the cycling mode. And after the device's app 
uploads them to the website, I receive superfluous automatic 
notifications about reward badges for long distance cycling. However, it 
should be clear to the software that no one could cycle 431 kilometers 
with the average speed of 69 km/h.


I think of upgrading my GPS logger. I would like to have one with the 
modes for the train, bus, and car, in addition to cycling and hiking, a 
bit larger display, but also to keep ruggedness, long endurance, and 
portability. I think it would be a good idea to have also an external 
GPS sensor with a cable of about 3 meters (10 feet). For example, to 
install it on the roof of a survey car. But I am not sure about the 
external sensor, since such a long cable may weaken the received GPS signal.


[1] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Geostationary_Navigation_Overlay_Service

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 17-Feb-20 18:21, Mario Frasca wrote:

Hi everyone.

mapping Santa Fé, Veraguas, Panamá.  allegedly, a "strategic tourist 
attraction" for this country, but what's the strategy, I'm at odds 
understanding that.  anyhow.  I'm trying to convince the municipality 
to help me helping them, and my plan is to: (step 1) collect traces, 
(step 2) process them together with local input and bing aerial 
pictures and integrate the information into OSM, (optional step 3) 
produce a nice large format map that makes the effort visible to 
people not using osm.org.


the "collect traces" step is where I'm most perplexed.  I've been 
walking around, travelling by local transport, uploaded the traces to 
OSM and my perplexity is how come aren't there any but really truly 
any other traces than what I've uploaded the last few weeks, and one 
by some German guy in 2009.


no, wait, I'm not just complaining for the sake of it, I'm looking for 
opportunities.


you see, we are in 2020, and people still do not know OSM even 
exists.  just count them: we have 1.35 billion people walking with a 
handheld device, most of which with a GPS, and only 10 thousand 
installations of OSM Tracker for Android.  that's a really negligible 
percentage, homeopathic almost.


I opened an issue on the osmtracker-android github project, and I 
invite you to contribute ideas there.


https://github.com/labexp/osmtracker-android/issues/234

my ideal scenery would be: one arrives at an airport, or a bus 
terminal, and notices a poster advertising a 'minimal controls' osm 
tracker, with a QR code to download it.  installation is followed by 
opening it, and the program suggests creating an OSM account, and some 
default options for uploading traces.  then the process would be 
automatic: you start recording, you stop recording and at that moment 
the program asks "do you want to upload this to OSM?"  (now this 
option is hidden behind a long-press, and is followed by the 
not-yet-solved need to register on OSM.  let me tell you: casual users 
stop here.)


Mario


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM: hover-Coordinate by easy click into clipboard?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It is interesting as an exercise in Regular Expressions.

I would prefer to have under
Geo URI
geo:47.8329,36.8763?z=16

just the coordinates themselves:
Geo coordinates
47.8329, 36.8763

where coordinates would be in a read-only input box with the "copy" 
clickable icon which allows to copy the coordinates in one(!) click.


As it is now I have to select the whole string, right-click, select 
copy, then click paste without formatting, select again the coordinates, 
and so on and so forth.


The JavaScript function to copy in one click is like three lines of 
code. And there is an empty space under: Geo URI


Best regards,
O.

On 1/11/20 13:50, Jo wrote:

Would this help?
https://pythex.org/?regex=(%5Cd%2B.%5Cd%2B%2C%5Cd%2B.%5Cd%2B)_string=geo%3A42.2010%2C20.7331%3Fz%3D14=0=0=0=0

Probably still more involved than what you would like.

Jo

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 10:51 Oleksiy Muzalyev 
mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>> wrote:


On MacOS it is Command+Shift+C.

I wish there were such a feature on the OSM.org map. Now it is
also possible to copy the coordinates of a place,
but one has to copy a long string and then to extract the
coordinates from it. But is JOSM one gets them directly in the
proper format, something like: 47.7549028, 36.8379178

Sometimes, when adding a photo to Wikimedia Commons which has got
the coordinates in its JPG's EXIF properties, still for some
reason the coordinates do not resurface in the location's latitude
and longitude fields of the page. So, usually in such a case, I
return to the OSM.org page, copy the long string and then extract
the coordinates from it manually.

Maybe there is such a feature on the OSM.org page, but I just did
not notice it yet. Perhaps, I can also point a cursor to a place
and do some keyboard combination and only the coordinates are copied.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 1/8/20 05:52, Erwin Olario wrote:

In JOSM, on an active layer, while a node is selected, you can
press CTRL+SHIFT+C and it will copy its coordinates to memory.

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 09:43 tshrub
mailto:my-email-confirmat...@online.de>> wrote:

hi,

in JOSM's status bar the mouse position is constantly running
as a
coordinate. Is there any easy way to get it, may be by
keyboard into the
clipboard?
I want to edit GPS data from, or better: add GPS-data to
trackless
photos - I want to place them like this with JOSM' sat-pictures.

bella saluti


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org  <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM: hover-Coordinate by easy click into clipboard?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On MacOS it is Command+Shift+C.

I wish there were such a feature on the OSM.org map. Now it is also 
possible to copy the coordinates of a place,
but one has to copy a long string and then to extract the coordinates 
from it. But is JOSM one gets them directly in the proper format, 
something like: 47.7549028, 36.8379178


Sometimes, when adding a photo to Wikimedia Commons which has got the 
coordinates in its JPG's EXIF properties, still for some reason the 
coordinates do not resurface in the location's latitude and longitude 
fields of the page. So, usually in such a case, I return to the OSM.org 
page, copy the long string and then extract the coordinates from it 
manually.


Maybe there is such a feature on the OSM.org page, but I just did not 
notice it yet. Perhaps, I can also point a cursor to a place and do some 
keyboard combination and only the coordinates are copied.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 1/8/20 05:52, Erwin Olario wrote:
In JOSM, on an active layer, while a node is selected, you can press 
CTRL+SHIFT+C and it will copy its coordinates to memory.


On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 09:43 tshrub > wrote:


hi,

in JOSM's status bar the mouse position is constantly running as a
coordinate. Is there any easy way to get it, may be by keyboard
into the
clipboard?
I want to edit GPS data from, or better: add GPS-data to trackless
photos - I want to place them like this with JOSM' sat-pictures.

bella saluti


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Still the current map is much better that say the map from the year of 
1538: 
https://olinuris.library.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/user7/Waldseemuller_1507.jpg


On that old map the continents' shapes are incorrect, half of the North 
America is absent. However, such a map is still better than nothing. 
People could navigate quite efficiently with it.


I guess the quality of the map will continue to improve, especially when 
the orthorectified aerial imagery becomes available in real time.


I also used an app on my phone to record the GPS traces, however a 
dedicated GPS tracker has got some advantages. It is waterproof, it can 
record a GPS trace for many hours without discharging the battery of a 
communication device. A DIY ultra-low cost GPS tracker can be placed say 
on the roof of a car what I would not risk to do with a phone.


Best regards,
O.


On 12/30/19 14:41, 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru wrote:

yes i used a phone to check it out,
but if the tracers are using old images, who to say the rest of the 
world is correct.
rivers, streams, trails, sidewalks dry flood ponds bus stops, gates, 
fences, billboards phone towers, ect.

*From:* Oleksiy Muzalyev
*Sent:* Monday, December 30, 2019 6:00 AM
*To:* 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru
*Cc:* OSM Talk
*Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
You can make the map quite precise and up to date by employing a GPS 
tracker. Here is, for example, a 431 km GPS trace which I recorded 
with the Garmin 35 eTrex device (no affiliation) earlier this month in 
Mexico from inside the bus: 
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4330126920 . This GPS trace 
is also published to the OSM map.
Garmin 35 uses the EGNOS, the European Geostationary Navigation 
Overlay Service, a satellite based augmentation system, in Europe, and 
the WAAS, the Wide Area Augmentation System, in the North America. It 
is capable to record a GPS trace for about 20 hours on a pair of cheap 
alkaline AA batteries even from inside the train, bus, car, or on bicycle.
It is possible to build a DIY, do-it-yourself, GPS tracker from and 
Arduino type micro-controller [1] and a 15 USD GPS module [2]. The 
total cost would be about 30.- USD. There are videos on Youtube on how 
to do it.
So one can record a GPS trace while cycling around a new building or a 
park, then publish the GPS trace to the OSM map, and finally to map 
them precisely and up to date in an editor by the GPS traces, even if 
they are not on satellite images yet.
[1] 
https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-ATMEGA328-328p-5V-16MHz-Pro-Mini-PCB-Module-Board-p-68534.html
[2] 
https://www.banggood.com/UBLOX-NEO-M8N-BN-880-Flight-Control-GPS-Module-Dual-Module-Compass-p-971082.html

Best regards,
Oleksiy
On 12/29/19 22:46, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:

i am talking about in my own back yard,
i just hiked a mile down the street to check it out, it was not the 
same when i was there in

1985, but it did not match the mapper either.
to that end, bing is 2015 or 16,
as an example the county forest preserve map took from osm, so 
mappers have copied that and it is wrong

and how do you see thing under the trees unless you walk it.
so who is to say that any of OSM is not fake.
if all mappers are tracing.
*From:* john whelan
*Sent:* Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:08 PM
*To:* 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru
*Cc:* OSM Talk
*Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
I'm fairly lucky in that in the last three years nothing much has 
changed locally.  The highways have stayed much the same.  Most 
buildings are still there.
If you use Bing to add things then realistically it fills in gaps in 
the map. If you delete things because they are not in Bing that is a 
quite different matter.
Does it matter if the mapper lives more than five miles away?  Well 
I've mapped places a few thousand miles away but they were places I 
knew very well as I used to live there.
I don't think OSM will ever be completely accurate.  Having said that 
it is still very useful for many purposes.

Cheerio John
On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 12:31 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk, 
 wrote:


it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map,
not one“other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in
a 5 mile radius are not coming from an on the ground
mappers in my area but 20 miles + away and are tracing from bing,
and the images on bing in my local area are from
2016 so i do not see how the map locally is true, and it is not
easy to go and see every thing they have done,
no car or bike.
every thing i do is backed up by me on mapillary, and in traces.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk

Re: [OSM-talk] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych ? names of international objects

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 12/7/19 02:54, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



sent from a phone


On 6. Dec 2019, at 15:16, pangoSE  wrote:

I believe that we should deprecate all wikipedia links as they are 
just potentially obsolete cruft that can be inferred from the 
wikidata item. (I am also an editor of Wikidata)


If you really want the Wikipedia link displayed fix your editor to 
fetch the local wikipedia link (if any) for your local language in 
addition to the label and description.





I know that people are assuming that a wikipedia article in language x 
has approximately the same content as another one in language y that 
is linked to it, but this is not the case. There are often significant 
differences, even if many articles are translations from the English 
version. Wikidata is another thing. It all started with one wikidata 
object for every article, but as the project grows and people edit it 
(yes, not only bots are editing wikidata), their objects get split and 
refined (subgroups of objects). A common example are settlements. In 
wikipedia, political and socio-geographic entities are often covered 
in the same article (or they are combined in one language and split in 
another). In wikidata (and even more in OpenStreetMap), these tend to 
get split over several objects. Wikipedia tends to aggregate several 
aspects of a thing into one article, wikidata tends to separating the 
concepts.


If someone adds a wikipedia link for something, you can see by the 
language which specific article she has read and linked (confirmed). 
It does not automatically imply that all wikipedia articles in other 
languages would also fit for the OpenStreetMap object that has gotten 
the tag. Even less for wikidata (which usually only deals with part of 
an article, which is not necessarily the one which fits for the object).


Just have a look, it happens all the time, another typical case for 
issues are buildings and things inside the buildings (museums, 
governments, whatever). Maybe it is less of an issue with natural 
places (mountains, seas, etc), but in the cultural world it is almost 
ubiquitous.


Cheers Martin

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Good morning Martin,

Here is, for example, the article for the Louvre museum in Englsh: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louvre . On the left part of this page 
there is the link "Wikidata item", which leads to this wikidata page: 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q19675


On the wikidata page there are links to the Wikipedia articles of this 
museum in dozens of languages. This particular museum is of an interest 
to the large number of people from many countries for numerous reasons 
(tourists, researches, students, etc.). I assume that the absolute 
majority of these people will not read the article in English or in 
French, but rather in their mother tongue.


Usually any significant Wikipedia article has got its respective 
wikidata item. If it does not have it, it could be created easily. So 
instead of adding a Wikipedia article of a museum in a specific 
language, the wikida item with the links to this articles in all 
available languages could be added. Then in a map editor or on a map web 
page, a visitor could be shown the link to the article in her/his 
language of choice immediately. So that the visitor could go to the 
Wikipedia article directly. But not first to the Wikipedia article in a 
foreign language and then search manually for the link to the article in 
his mother tongue on the HTML page.


Or even better, he could be presented with a drop-down list of this 
Wikipedia article in all available language versions with the article in 
his language of choice preselected. The Wikidata is the structured 
database, so its contents can be accesses in a complex programmatic 
manner. While the Wikipedia article is an HTML page, so basically it is 
the final destination for a program. Only human can read it and go 
father from it manually.


Best regards,

Oleksiy



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Relevance of the “name” tag in places where there is no obvious associated language

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It is certainly the case. However, the new tools begin to change this 
situation. For example, at Wikidata items one can add a translation into 
any language quickly and conveniently.


The commercial websites also get the different language versions, since 
it can be implemented now easily and robustly. For example, the website 
of Uber is available in any language of a region where this enterprise 
operates.


Let alone smartphones. One can nowadays have her/his smartphone in any 
language. And it was not the case still in 90s.


The translation is becoming the true international language.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 12/6/19 18:46, john whelan wrote:
The international language would be English.  It is after all the 
language of trade and as a consequence absorbed many words from other 
languages.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Relevance of the “name” tag in places where there is no obvious associated language

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Most people know where the Atlantic Ocean, and it is not a problem. But 
if I want to see, for example, where is the Laptev Sea I cannot find it 
on the OSM map, not on any layer.


Both the Atlantic Ocean and the Laptev Sea could be marked in Latin 
language as Oceanus Atlanticus and Mare Lapteviorum. It would be 
understandable enough, in accordance with the scientific tradition, and 
exactly as it was marked on the original Mercator's map: 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Mercator_1569_world_map_composite.jpg


(ref.)

https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanus_Atlanticus

https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Lapteviorum

Best regards,

Oleksiy


On 06-Dec-19 12:04, Frederik Ramm wrote:

"European Union" or "Atlantic Ocean" aren't usually
rendered anyway.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych ? names of international objects

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

At least in the JOSM editor there is an additional text in English near 
the wikidata code-title.


Since the wikidata title (or name) is usually translated on the wikidata 
page itself in different languages and it is a part of the accessible 
database, this text could be in different languages in a map editor.


If there is no translation of the wikidata item in a particular 
language, one can add it, even if there is no Wikipedia article in this 
language. The wikidata also contains the description and the alternative 
name.


So basically having the wikidata code-name, it is possible to display 
the name and even the description in any language of choice in a map editor.


So wikidata makes makes it technically possible to implement the modern 
principle stating that the true international language is the translation.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 06-Dec-19 11:25, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
Yes, wikidata tag may be useful but it is an alphanumeric gibberish 
not readable by humans.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych ? names of international objects

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Often people may think that they speak English, but in fact they do not 
speak it good enough. English seems to be an easy language, but it is as 
difficult as it gets. Its real complexity is in numerous idiomatic 
expressions.


I would say a person speak English if she/he sat and passed the exam for 
the C1 or C2 level certificate. For example, CAE or CPE. It would be 
interesting to know the statistics of how many people in the continental 
Europe have got the C1 or C2 levels.


(ref.)
https://www.cambridgeenglish.org/exams-and-tests/advanced/
https://www.cambridgeenglish.org/exams-and-tests/proficiency/

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 12/6/19 09:55, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
... It is convenient for us Europeans, because most of us are able to 
communicate in English, ...


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych ? names of international objects

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

For many geographical names there are articles in the Latin version of 
Wikipedia. For example, for the Black Sea: 
https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontus_Euxinus


for Poland: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonia , for Canada: 
https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada , etc.


So if one wishes to add a name in Latin, i.e. name:la in the editor, it 
is possible just to look it up in the Latin version of Wikipedia.


The Latin language was widely used in the cartography and in science in 
general over the past centuries. For example Isaac Newton's book 
"Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica", one of the most important 
works in the history of science, was published in 1687 in Latin.


And it is still used in science nowadays. The legacy of the Rēs pūblica 
Rōmāna & Imperium Rōmānum, including its language, is so enormous that 
it can never get extinct. At the same time the Latin does not have a 
standing army any more.


So it is indeed kind of neutral. What is beneficial and safer for 
mappers in some parts. Besides the name in Latin is often recognizable 
for people who speak English, French, German, etc. Even for people from 
the Cyrillic, Chinese, Korean, etc. background it is often also 
understandable, since the Latin alphabet is studied at the elementary 
school.


Please, note that the titles of some Wikipedia articles change from time 
to time. The titles of wikidata items change much less frequently. By 
adding the wikidata tag we add also the Wikipedia articles indirectly, 
since the links to articles in all available language versions are 
present on the wikidata page. Besides, a wikidata item is a part of the 
database, so it is also machine-readable, while a Wikipedia article is 
just an HTML page intended for reading by humans.


Best regards,

Oleksiy

Suggestion 2b: use the name in a neutral language, i.e. planned or 
extinct: Lingvo Internacia Esperanto (EO), Interlingua (IA), Ido (IO), 
Latin (LA), I don't know Latin, so I would need help.


Suggestion 2b: use the name in a neutral language ... or extinct: ... 
Latin (LA), I don't know Latin, so I would need help.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Addressing SIG

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On the main osm.org site one can right-click on a building and select 
"Show address" or "Add a note here" . What if a new type of a note is 
introduced, a structured address note?


The structured address note entry form will consist of several input fields:

Building number: ...
Street (avenue): ...
Post index (zip code, postal code): ...
City (town, village): ...
Region (State, Canton, Department): ...
Country: ...

It could also include a captcha to prevent mass automated entries.

Usually people do know very well addresses of buildings in which they 
live, work, or which they visit. This way they will know that the OSM 
map is interested to map the correct postal address, since there is this 
readily available structured address entry form. So they can add an 
address without learning how to use a complex map editor.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 11/5/19 19:37, Steve Coast wrote:


Hello

Maps have three basic components: Display (does it look nice?), 
Routing (Can I get from a to b?) and Geocoding (Where is this address?).


OSM is extremely good at the first one, and pretty good at the second 
one. But it’s pretty deficient in the third area: address data.


The question is, how can we fix this? Addresses are a big, big problem 
in terms of how much data we need to go collect. There are a few ways 
forward with outside commercial or government data, but they tend to 
be difficult because the data is patchy or licensed in ways that 
aren’t very compatible with OSM.


It seems like it would be a good idea to think about this from the 
bottom up in a community way, and this doesn’t really exist in OSM 
right now. It seems like we need better feedback loops to:


 1. Community can see where the address data is (and isn’t), because
it’s not very obvious today when using osm.org
 2. Make the tools to add address data better so that it’s easier to fix.

To that end, here’s a tile server that highlights address data:

http://ec2-52-50-19-165.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com/#10/39.7561/-104.9574

It shows roads with address data normally and kind-of hides other 
roads, to make it obvious that “something is wrong with this map”. We 
could have a tag (maybe it exists already) that says “this road 
doesn’t have addresses” and/or a tag that says “this road is 
complete”. (right now it’s just got Colorado and Utah in it).


When OSM started, the map looked very broken and incomplete because 
there was missing data all over the place. This created a large 
incentive to go fix the map. The idea with this tileserver is to do 
the same thing and make the map look broken to create a large 
incentive to fix it. If we, one day, switched the main osm.org site to 
using this rendering then it would create an urgent need to find all 
the addresses in the places where they exist. It could also be done on 
a temporary basis for a few weeks, or on a per-country basis or some 
other slow introduction to see if it worked. It’s just an idea.


On the tools side, there’s much that can be done to make collecting 
and entering addresses easier. I’ve been collecting UI/UX changes to 
tools (e.g. iD or Go Map!) that would make addresses better:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address_SIG

It also seems worthwhile to create a group of people interested in 
addressing in OSM (an address special interest group or working group) 
to push these ideas forward so that we can “finish” OSM by getting all 
the addresses done.


What do you think?

Best

Steve


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 11/3/19 21:11, Mark Wagner wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 16:55:43 +0100
Oleksiy Muzalyev  wrote:


You can assist from time to time in mapping the areas were there is
one or another trouble, like a military conflict, or a natural or
technogenic disaster. The list can be found here:
https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL

This way it would be not easy to figure out in which place you live.

Unless you're mapping the exact same things remotely as you are
locally, this doesn't stop anything but the most naive effort to figure
out where someone lives.  If a mapper is tracing buildings in Zimbabwe
and adding restaurants in London, which is more likely: that they live
in Zimbabwe and are armchair-mapping in London, or that they live in
London, and are armchair-mapping in Zimbabwe?

Certainly, it is the STO, security through obscurity, the same as an 
anonymous user name or a rarely used e-mail for registration. For 
instance, the identity still can be easily found via the IP address if 
the authorities are involved in some way.


The really good idea is not to do and not to write things online which 
one would not say publicly in person, even if the user name seems to be 
anonymous.


However, there is a risk in not taking the risk. For example, what 
seemingly could be safer than to watch TV sitting in the armchair? At 
the same time the top global cause of death is the ischemic heart 
disease which can be prevented by physical exercise.


In a similar way there is some risk not only in mapping, but also in 
not-mapping well the district.


ref.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

You can assist from time to time in mapping the areas were there is one 
or another trouble, like a military conflict, or a natural or 
technogenic disaster. The list can be found here: 
https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL


This way it would be not easy to figure out in which place you live.

Frankly, I do not like an idea of creating the multiple "ghost" 
accounts. These databases are maintained by volunteers, often on 
shoestring budget. If everyone from a million mappers will create 
several accounts than the database's table will have not a million rows, 
what is already quite a lot, but several millions. The superfluous data 
on the hard disks means also additional electrical energy.


Best regards,
Oleksiy (Alex-7@OSM)

On 11/3/19 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:

Hello everyone!

I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
recently.

I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
map.

Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

Philippe

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] stalking, or stepping on someone's toes (area) ?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It is also possible to see changes in a certain area at this page: 
https://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/


If you do an on-the-ground survey of bus stops you can use some quality 
tools. For example, a GPS handheld device Garmin eTrex Touch 35, a 
portable digital camera Sony RX100, a portable quad-copter for aerial 
images DJI Spark with a portable helipad (no affiliation to any). This 
equipment fits into a small urban backpack and lasts forever. Or you can 
use just a smartphone with a photo-camera.


You can make quality HD images of bus stops, so that their titles are 
readable. Then apply the geographical coordinates from the GPS handheld 
device to the images, - it could be done automatically. The aerial 
images from Spark do have coordinates by itself. You may publish these 
images to the Wikimedia commons category for this village or a district 
of a town, and add the image link to the bus stop on the OSM map.


So your survey would be well documented, and it would be hard to argue 
that there is no bus stop at this place, if you provide the ground photo 
of the stop with the stop's name and the GPS coordinates, an aerial 
image of this stop, so that its location relative to other objects is 
clearly visible.


You can also go around the bus stop 3 - 4 times slowly while recording a 
GPS trace with the GPS handheld device. The you can publish this GPS 
trace to the OpenStreet map. And you and others will see clearly where 
the bus stop is located.


It would be much better then go into the logic of "my word against his 
word".


Best regards,
Oleksiy (Alex-7@OSM)

On 9/19/19 23:34, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
    Are there programs that are spying on me, like they do in 
wikipedia – wikidata in real time, that is see
what i am doing , or is there a way of seeing  point edits by name, 
that is every time someone edits, adds

a certain  named point ?
   Every time i go out on the  bus (no car) a few miles from my on the 
ground area
and see things like new bus stops, etc. when i get back to my computer 
i add them to the map
if they were of course not there, and every time someone comes along 
and changes things

or adds things in that area based on tracing and not real time.
also i get messages from the same person with bus stops saying i have 
done it wrong
without telling where it is a rule, it seems this one person controls 
all bus routes in a
3,446square miles area, but does not add all the stops and “the bus 
will stops anywhere
along the route where it is safe to do so” and these are where i pick 
up the bus

and there not all on his downloaded list or live map.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Anonymous comments on notes now disabled

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 9/1/19 09:50, joost schouppe wrote:



Op vr 30 aug. 2019 13:15 schreef Oleksiy Muzalyev 
mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>>:


I think in future when there will be more space on servers it
would be a
good idea to add a possibility to attach an optional image to a
note for
the registered users.


Images are a really useful addition to a written Note. But it could be 
handled without having to host the actual images. A user interface 
could just upload them somewhere, and add the url to the note.


It certainly could be done like this. Though there will be more clicks 
for a note. I do not remember the exact statistics figures, - something 
like each excessive click drops about 20% of potential users. That is 
why organizations, which could afford usability studies, implement 
various "one-click buying" solutions.


Images could be uploaded and stored on a separate server. There will be 
no other connection to production serves except HTML IMG tags in notes. 
An image file size could be limited at first to say 100 KB. Even if an 
attacker manages to pass the security filters and upload a pseudo-image 
file with a malicious code (what is unlikely) nothing dramatic would 
happen. There will be no images in notes for several hours until the OS 
is reinstalled on the server and the files restored from a backup.


I was recently asked to participate in mapping of a small town in a 
region several thousand kilometers from my location. I could not 
understand what kind of threes they have there. Are they broad-leaved or 
needle-leaved, - I could not see it from satellite images. There were no 
photos in its Wikipedia page. I could neither see what type of paths 
they have. One or two 100 KB survey-style photos would be enough.


ref.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Click

brgds

O.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Anonymous comments on notes now disabled

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 8/30/19 15:47, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:




30 Aug 2019, 15:16 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

On 29/08/2019 22:46, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Perversely, it is much easier to fight a vandal creating new,
useless notes (by just

closing them) than it is to clean up their droppings from
existing notes.


I don't understand the logic of that. Whether a note is 5 seconds
or 5 years old, it's still "existing"  & it's content, irrelevant
or no.t will not change over time.

Spam in otherwise useful notes (typically it was vandal adding 
multiple single letter comments
in all notes within region) makes using them more frustrating and 
generates notifications
to all earlier contributors. I was forced to autodelete all 
notifications about anonymous comments,

so many were useless "a" spam.

Useless note can be closed and is quickly gone (afaik within 2 weeks 
by default - both in JOSM
and on the website). While many notes with useful reports remain open 
for months and litter there affects

more people.


Maybe it was not the vandalism but people trying to understand the 
functioning of the notes & comments system? Posting single letters does 
not look like a malicious vandalism.


It was still possible to give an anonymous visitor a possibility to 
delete his/her test notes (comments) by recording in the browser's 
cookie file an unique ID code of this visitor from say 32 digits and 
characters. And only if the ID code in the browser coincides, only then 
the "delete" button is displayed to the visitor.


Anyway it is not relevant anymore since there will be no more anonymous 
notes & comments.


Best regards,

O.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Anonymous comments on notes now disabled

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Good afternoon,

I think in future when there will be more space on servers it would be a 
good idea to add a possibility to attach an optional image to a note for 
the registered users.


Nowadays a lot of people do have a good camera in their pockets. After 
the note is closed down the JPG file could be deleted from the server.


For example, opening hours, the number of levels of a building, the name 
of a bus stop, etc. could be demonstrated effectively and unequivocally 
by a 100 KB image.


The modern programming languages are capable to check not only a file 
extension but to verify that it is actually the JPG or the PNG image 
file, so it is possible to create more or less effective protection 
against unlikely attacks.


I know that there are websites where street-view images could be 
uploaded, but I mean an image to illustrate the specific point of a note.


Best regards,

Oleksiy (Alex-7@OSM)


On 29-Aug-19 23:46, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

after two years of discussing the pros and cons, a decision has now been
reached to disallow anonymous comments on notes.

Up until two days ago, anonymous (i.e. not logged-in) users could create
notes and comment on existing notes; the only thing they could not do
was close a note.

Now, anonymous users can *still* create notes, but they cannot comment
on or close existing notes.

In the long discussions leading up to this decision (see
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1543 and
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/1926) we
agreed that anonymous comments on notes are rarely useful, and when they
are, they come mostly from users who have just forgotten to log in. This
was weighed against recent massive spam and vandalism activities which
rendered the notes system near unusuable in some regions. Perversely, it
is much easier to fight a vandal creating new, useless notes (by just
closing them) than it is to clean up their droppings from existing notes.

Bye
Frederik




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.22.0

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Yves,

Thank you. Everything is clear now.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 8/28/19 08:39, Yves wrote:

Oleksiy,
Those two changes are indeed very technical and are not related to 
mapping.

https://postgis.net/docs/ST_PointOnSurface.html

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3756

Yves

Le 28 août 2019 08:13:13 GMT+02:00, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
 a écrit :


Good morning,

Thank you for the information.

I did not understand these two changes. I would like to see an example
on the map or/and read a wiki article about the building label, the shop
label, and the ST_PointOnSurface.

In the two following articles:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shops
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building

there is neither word "label", nor "ST_PointOnSurface". I would like to
learn about it and, probably, use it.

As for layers with attachments, - I guess it does not concern mapping
itself, but it's something related to a technical side of rendering.
Probably, a layer has got some PNG image files, which are used in icons
or displaying certain areas, and they will be cached in the visitors'
browsers.

Best regards,
Oleksiy (Alex-7 @ OSM)

On 8/28/19 06:57, Paul Norman via talk wrote:
>

Changes include - Shop label fixes and use ST_PointOnSurface
for building label placement   This fixes some bugs and makes
building label placement consistent with shop   label
placement. - Use `cache-feature: true` to improve performance
of layers with attachments ... 



talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.22.0

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Good morning,

Thank you for the information.

I did not understand these two changes. I would like to see an example 
on the map or/and read a wiki article about the building label, the shop 
label, and the ST_PointOnSurface.


In the two following articles:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shops
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building

there is neither word "label", nor "ST_PointOnSurface". I would like to 
learn about it and, probably, use it.


As for layers with attachments, - I guess it does not concern mapping 
itself, but it's something related to a technical side of rendering. 
Probably, a layer has got some PNG image files, which are used in icons 
or displaying certain areas, and they will be cached in the visitors' 
browsers.


Best regards,
Oleksiy (Alex-7 @ OSM)

On 8/28/19 06:57, Paul Norman via talk wrote:


Changes include

- Shop label fixes and use ST_PointOnSurface for building label placement

  This fixes some bugs and makes building label placement consistent 
with shop

  label placement.

- Use `cache-feature: true` to improve performance of layers with 
attachments

...



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Tile Usage Limitation

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hello Margarita,

You can also generate your own tiles. Here is the link to the 
explanation of how to do it: https://switch2osm.org/


It is relatively simple. You can do it either for one country or for the 
whole planet. You will need a modern web-server machine with the Ubuntu 
Linux OS.


As far as I know there are also commercial tiles providers.

Best regards,
Oleksiy (Alex-7 @ OSM)

On 8/23/19 00:33, Margarita Yanachkova wrote:

Hello,

We're looking to build an interactive map of restaurants much like 
this one 
 using 
Open Street Map. Can you let me know what would be the max number of 
loads per day approximately? Would 1000 be ok and can we pay for some 
sort of license / make a donation if we go to go over the limit?


Also, do you count zooming in and out, clicking on markers and  on the 
map as a load as well?


Many thanks,

--
Margarita Yanachkova

Truly - Experiences Beyond Ordinary
w: trulyexperiences.com 
p: +44 (0) 20 3890 3248 

Winner - Luxury Website of the Year



Life is about collecting memories, not things. Check out how others 
have joined our movement!


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] adding my aerial sphere 360 panorama to the OpenStreetMap

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi James,

thank you very much for your comment.

Both Mapillary and OpenStreetCam specialize in Street View style 
imagery, i.e. the imagery created at the level of 1.5 - 2 meters above 
the ground. These are great resources.


However, I shoot sphere panoramas at the altitude of 30 - 50 meters 
above the ground. One such panorama covers an area of about one square 
kilometer. It provides a good 3D impression and understanding of a 
geographical place.


I learned from the interesting discussion at my new diary entry page 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Alex-7/diary
that Wikimedia's Wmflabs works on its Panorama Viewer. Actually it is 
functional already. And also that, probably, a new OSM tag is needed, 
since a panorama, especially aerial, is not a usual still image, it is a 
new different quickly developing technology.


Thank you again and have a good day.

Best regards,
O. (Alex-7@OSM)


On 25-Jul-19 12:14, James wrote:
There are already services such as Mapillary or OpenStreetCam that can 
be used as an imagery overlay to OSM.


On Thu., Jul. 25, 2019, 6:11 a.m. Oleksiy Muzalyev, 
mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>> wrote:


Good day,

I published a new diary entry about an experiment of adding my aerial
sphere 360 panorama to the OpenStreetMap:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Alex-7/diary

If you are interested of virtual, 3D or deep mapping, please, read
and
comment.

Best regards,

O. (Alex-7@OSM)





___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] adding my aerial sphere 360 panorama to the OpenStreetMap

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Good day,

I published a new diary entry about an experiment of adding my aerial 
sphere 360 panorama to the OpenStreetMap:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Alex-7/diary

If you are interested of virtual, 3D or deep mapping, please, read and 
comment.


Best regards,

O. (Alex-7@OSM)





___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Map of Population Density vs. OpenStreetMap density

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Good morning,

As an aside, I've heard at a conference that the amount of data in the 
OpenStreetMap database per capita in a country is proportional to the 
per capita income [1] of the country.


I wonder if there is an inverse relationship. For example, if we take a 
country and map it exhaustively and extremely well, increasing by this 
the amount of the OSM data for it. Will it increase the per capita income?


I cannot be sure, but in principle in could, as a good readily available 
map favors economic activity. And if it were the case, the OSM mapping 
could be taught to millions of pupils and students as part of curriculum.


Best regards,
Oleksiy (Alex-7 @ OSM)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income

On 7/5/19 13:46, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski wrote:

Hi,

In HOT mailing list I was advised to bring a part of a thing we did to 
wider audience :)


We've correlated global population datasets with plain OpenStreetMap 
objects count. The main use case is to quickly determine how much is 
there to map in case of natural disaster in a smaller region, but the 
map itself is global - it's interesting to see what's around you and 
find the spots to map next, even outside of the disaster.


http://disaster.ninja/live/ 



What do you think?

(The HOT list thread if you are interested in disaster.ninja tool 
itself: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2019-June/014908.html)


Darafei Praliaskouski
kontur.io 

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM user diary etiquette

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi,

Socrates,  a Greek philosopher, wrote still more than two thousand years 
ago  "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser".


That is, soft words if presented in hard arguments can convey the 
message more efficiently. One more person had to learn this precious 
lesson the hard way.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 6/25/19 01:14, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

I am writing this with my DWG hat on.

The OSM user diaries are not routinely moderated but the DWG has the
technical means to hide comments or whole posts, and will make use of
these in extreme situations.

I am writing to inform you that there as been one such situation, where
a contributor time and time again over recent months used various
expletives and insults to belittle the work of others in the project.
He's been told to stop it numerous times; at one point when told that
insults don't get him anywhere he said that he disagreed, because he had
actually got a reaction to an insult. In another situation where he was
told that his message could be heard better if he weren't wrapping it in
so much bile, he responded "don't tell me what to do".

We first tried to only hide those comments that were absolutely
inacceptable ("viciuos brat", "violent little shit" etc.) but even those
messages that were factual were always seasoned with a sentence
explaining how this and that other person was an idiot, amateur, etc.,
so in the end we just hid a handful of blog entries altogether. We
wouldn't normally moderate someone for calling someone else an "amateur"
but if it's framed by constant, stronger abuse then that lowers the bar
considerably.

It is unfortunate because this means that quite a few useful comments
written by some of you - the main subject was ways of fighting diary
spam - were dropped too.

As I said, it's a rare exception for us to have to do this; these
messages, especially because they weren't one-off heat-of-the-moment
posts but a sustained onslaught, far surpassed in offensiveness anything
I've seen on this or any other OSM mailing list in recent years.

I won't say who the user is - those of you who were involved will
recognize it, and those who weren't probably shouldn't waste any time
with it.

Bye
Frederik




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] usefulness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Dear Roland,

I understood well the idea about an external tool and its availability 
in the long run. It makes good sense. I would like just to mention that 
Wikipedia articles change their titles at the drop of a hat.


Wikidata items also change sometimes, but I have never encountered it 
personally. Wikidata items' titles seems to be more stable than 
Wikipedia articles' titles. Wikipedia articles are basically just HTML 
pages for reading by humans.


One more consideration, - it is possible to create a Wikipedia article 
only of a notable object, i.e. if there are several published articles 
or books about it. It is easier to create a Wikidata item (or Wikimedia 
category), than a Wikipedia article.


I mentioned already in this discussion that I could well create the 
Wikidata item (and Wikimedia category) for the historic Yellow Quarry 
(fr. Carrière Jaune) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q62083763 , but I 
still cannot create the Wikipedia article, because I cannot find so far 
any reliable article-worthy sources.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 4/18/19 22:02, Roland Olbricht wrote:

Dear Andy,

I would like to use a metaphor:

If I had known that the captain of the Titanic considered the ship
unsinkable then I had not boarded the ship.
Not so much because I had been interested in the captain's belief but
because believing to be unsinkable is way too little for a contingency 
plan.


The contingency plan for OpenStreetMap is that everyone can still edit
the map even if the main database were the only website of the world
that is still available. This works well with a "wikipedia" tag: An
average person can, from the wording of the page title, still predict
whether an object in question qualifies for that tag or not, without the
article available at all.

This does not work with a wikidata tag.
Without the Wikidata server up and availble the tag is a random number 
only.


I'm not talking about who has the most reliable server here.
In practice the things that happen (and all actually have happened in
one form or another):
- A provider blocks the IP address block of a particular site because of
a policy on an adjacent IP address
- HTTPS is used and the browser or the client's library does not trust
the certificate or has a conflicting policy
- A misconfigured carrier grade NAT makes the address inaccessible
- Wikipedia or other services distinct from openstreetmap.org go on 
strike

- a site starts to apply or substantially reduces quotas

I do not presume the Wikidata servers had failed or to do in the
forseeable future. Serious issues always come from an unexpected
direction. The engineers of the Titanic have taken precaution for many
many things and probably simply never thought about icebergs, or not
hard enough. So please do not try to discuss the issues away.

It is nowadays an engenering virtue to decouple things enough to keep
each of the parts as simple as possible. That has saved both many lifes
as well as trillions of dollars.

That said, the free-form tagging paradigm means that it may or may not
been acceptable to add tags in addition to tags understandable without
the help of any external tool.  However, it is destructive to replace
tags understandable without any external tools with tags that require
external tools, i.e. to remove wikipedia tags in favour of wikidata tags.

Best regards,

Roland


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] uselessness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi,

I agree that adding tons of links with a script is not a good idea. 
However, there are cases where a wikidata tag could be useful.


For example, I created the Wikidata item (and the Commons category) for 
the medieval quarry Carrière Jaune (eng. Yellow Quarry):


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/158798757
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q62083763

This quarry had been in operation for five hundred years, it provided 
about 25000 cubic meters of stones for quite a few famous castles and 
buildings in the region, but now it is completely abandoned. It is 
situated deep in the forest. As far as I know there were no excavations 
there yet, and there is no Wikipedia article either, since there are few 
sources so far.


Via this Wikidata link people can view the ground and aerial photos of 
this absolutely magnificent medieval quarry and even read the basic 
historical information on the photo of the information board. I had to 
actually walk for hours to this quarry to make the photos. I also spent 
several hours for the research.


The idea is that people could not only see an object on the map, but 
also to get an information about it, including images, and most 
importantly an idea to go and visit the place.


Best regards,
O.

On 4/18/19 11:28, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

On 17.04.19 23:40, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

I am not aware about even single case where brand:wikipedia
or brand:wikidata is useful.

The general mindset of the Wikidata adherent is that every
machine-readable link between obejcts or concepts improves the overall
quality and usefulness of the data set, whether or not a concrete use
case exists at this point in time or not.

Mapping things without a concrete use case is fairly common in OSM; you
don't generally have to demonstrate a use case before you can start
mapping something.

However, the ferocity and scope with which Wikidata links are forced on
us are a concern for me. It started with tons of undiscussed mechanical
edits that resulted in low-quality connections like the one that gave
rise to this discussion, and has meanwhile found its way into our
editors which happily add wikidata tags according to the same flawed
logic, making the individual mapper complicit without them really
knowing what goes on. We end up with tons of extra tags that add zero
extra information and complicate the world for mappers.

And I'm not even talking about our own wiki where they've started to
wikidatify our tags as well.

I'm realistic enough to accept that wikidata links are here to stay, but
we have to rein in the "the more the merrier" thinking with regards to
wikidata.

Bye
Frederik




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Congratulations everyone!

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Kate,

Thank you for sharing!

I read the article and the description of the Award for Projects of 
Social Benefit. Still I have a question, - is it a music plate, what you 
hold in your hands on the photo? If yes, what kind of music it contains?


Unfortunately, the photos in the article are rather small and cannot be 
zoomed in. Would it be too much to ask to make an HD photo of the award, 
publish it online, and sent us the link?


It seems to me there is a text on the award, and I am curious what it 
says. But on the photos in the article the text is not readable.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 3/24/19 07:49, Kate Chapman wrote:

Hi All,

Today the OpenStreetMap project won the Award for Projects of Social 
Benefit from the Free Software Foundation. This was awarded at 
LibrePlanet.


Way to go everyone who has ever contributed to OSM!

Read more from the FSF here: 
https://www.fsf.org/news/openstreetmap-and-deborah-nicholson-win-2018-fsf-awards


Kate

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] What use is OpenStreetMap?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

A detailed map is an essential tool for firefighters, ambulance, and 
police. And not only of the town itself but also of the countryside 
especially along railways and automobile roads.


The city of Stockholm built an interactive public transportation map on 
the basis of OSM: https://sl.se/en/ . People can see still at home when 
their bus is arriving at the stop.


The city of Odessa created the similar public transportation map but on 
the basis of a commercial map: http://transport.odessa.ua/ . It was 
extremely useful web-application, one could see how the trams' 
geo-markers were moving on the map. The web-application became very 
popular, and the commercial map underneath stopped working normally for 
some, probably also commercial, reason.


I mean a  municipal project which is based on an open data map running 
on the municipal server could be more resilient and affordable, 
especially if it becomes popular.


A big separate topic is e-commerce delivery services. A rookie delivery 
driver may search for an address in a city in some cases for hours. This 
excessive driving could be reduced significantly if a driver could see a 
delivery address on the map. It would mean less pollution, accidents, 
pavement wear.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 03.01.19 22:07, John Whelan wrote:
I got a phone call from someone who works for a municipality who was 
passed my phone number.  Basically asking from a municipal government 
point of view was there any advantage to the municipality in having 
their municipality mapped in detail in OpenStreetMap.


Off the top of my head businesses etc can provide map of where they 
are located without payment and list their web sites and phone numbers 
etc.


Is there a web page somewhere that covers this?

It is quite a serious question and I suspect will be used to justify 
some expenditure and effort to help enrich the map.


Thanks John


--
Sent from Postbox 



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Candidate's views? Re: Board decision on Crimea complaint

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 12/11/2018 2:39 PM, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 11/12/2018 13:22, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

I would like to point out that in Ukraine displaying a map without 
Crimea is illegal, article 110, part 1, of the Penal code. It 
involves from 3 to 5 years of imprisonment [1]. So the OSM map 
without Crimea is becoming potentially unusable for the community in 
Ukraine.


The same is true in India for the various borders, including
that with China.

It's also true in China for the border with India.

Unsurprisingly there is no one rendering that is legal on both
sides of the border.

None of which has stopped us using our current rule for that
border.

Tom

I see your point. However, there is a difference. This is an issue in 
Europe, which potentially could trigger a new Cold War, which already 
brings a lot of losses and suffering all over the continent via 
sanctions, lost opportunities, etc.


Tremendous forces are involved in this conflict, powerful armies are in 
poise. In my opinion, an elegant technical solution, which satisfies 
both sides, is to be found, what could set an example for political elites.


As for transparency for the board and candidates in this particular 
issue, I would not recommend it. They are civilians and volunteers. In 
my opinion, the board and DWG should listen to the opinions and develop 
a compromise collective solution.


Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.17.0

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 26.11.18 17:14, Marc Gemis wrote:

My intention was rather to hear about some general trends,

As far as I understand,

One general trend is to be "cleaner, have less information". ...

...The one trend I really like more icons for more items, maybe even a
zoom level where you can see lanes and turn:lanes.

m.
A commercial map is to pay the remuneration to thousands of employees. A 
natural long-term strategy for such a map would be to show information 
scarcely, to display predominantly advertising as information. Perhaps, 
this could be an explanation of the "cleaner, less information" trend, 
which we see at some commercial maps?


The OSM does not seem to have this constraint. In my opinion, if there 
is information available for an area it could be displayed upfront with 
nice intuitive icons. There is a lot of space and resolution on the 
large desktop monitors for it.


I agree, there should be a certain balance. I think Carto is doing it 
about just right at the moment.


Best regards,

O.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.17.0

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Good morning Daniel,

There is a relatively new leisure or sport activity, the so called 
"street workout". I mapped couple of new street workout grounds as 
leisrure=fitness_station, sport=exercise, which could be seen with the 
HD images via these links:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/631600472
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/648509242

The OSM icon is a running man, but it does not reflect well the nature 
of this activity. It is possible to search Youtube on the text - "street 
workout" (or "ghetto workout") to see what it looks like in reality, in 
order to draw a new icon. Or maybe even a special tag?


I am not sure if it is a problem, however this sport becomes popular, 
there are competitions.


With best regards,
Oleksiy

On 26.11.18 02:37, Daniel Koć wrote:

... what problems are the most visible?




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF makes a political decision where should be a technical solution?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It seems to be a good idea to show the disputed boundaries in a 
different style. For example, if a captain of a see ship visits a port 
in Crimea and then one in Ukraine, as far as I know, he may have legal 
problems and the ship could be delayed in Ukraine. A captain from say 
the Southeast Asia could be not aware of local politics. For instance, 
who from us in Europe knows if there is a dispute between Bolivia and 
Paraguay? But at least he may see on the map that this boundary is 
disputed and be somehow forewarned.


On the MapQuest map one can see clearly the ground de facto border 
between Ukraine and Crimea, so a driver can slow down before the 
checkpoint, avoiding the risk of hitting the concrete blocks in darkness 
at high speed, if the de facto border were not shown at all. But the 
border has got somewhat different style.


The situation with Crimea is not settled on the ground either. The 
immense North Crimean Canal [1] is closed and does not supply water to 
the peninsula. What causes heavy loses both to the agriculture at the 
Crimea and to the companies in Ukraine which maintain the canal. A lot 
of people suffer due to this situation. Displaying the border as 
disputed, i.e in a distinctive style, could be an additional stimulus to 
the participants of the conflict to attempt to find a permanent peaceful 
solution.


Though I do realize that it could be time consuming for volunteers to 
rewrite programs and redesign databases for particular cases.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Crimean_Canal

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 24.11.18 16:09, Andy Townsend wrote:
...As another example have a look at https://www.mapquest.com/ and 
browse to Western Sahara - there are at least 3 different styles of 
boundaries shown there that represent de facto and de jure country 
boundaries.  Those are technical decisions made by the people making 
those maps (in this case Mapbox, based on OSM data).

...

it is widely internationally recognised that Russia now controls Crimea.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF makes a political decision where should be a technical solution?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

The topic of territorial claims is very complicated, long lasting,  and 
painful. It involves not only such relatively remote and insignificant 
cases as Hans Island, Sudan, Croatia, Crimea, Pakistan, etc. cases, but 
also the industrial developed lands. For example, the Reconquista [1] in 
the USA is about millions of square kilometers, including the 
California, the 6th economical power in the world if taken by itself. 
After visiting some areas of Los Angeles, California, the Reconquista 
does not seem to me as ridiculous as before. Demography and linguistics 
do have certain significance.


Or the expulsion of Germans (the civilian population) from Eastern 
Poland after WW2 [2]. There is already in Germany the official 
organization The Centre Against Expulsions (German: Zentrum gegen 
Vertreibungen, ZgV) [3]. And the Germany is the world class industrial 
superpower.


Fortunately, these controversial massive cases are dormant, and I hope 
they will remain so. There are many other similar cases.


I suggested still several years ago to include in the OpenStreetMap 
foundation Core Values [4] the principle of Impartiality and Neutrality, 
similarly as it is done at the International Committee of Red Cross.

For example:
--
IMPARTIALITY
OSM makes no discrimination as to nationality, race, religious beliefs, 
class or political opinions. It endeavours only to map the objective 
“Ground Truth”.


NEUTRALITY
In order to continue to enjoy the confidence of all, the OSM may not 
take sides in hostilities or engage at any time in controversies of a 
political, racial, religious or ideological nature.

--

In 2014 Le Monde named the author Rana Dasgupta one of 70 people who are 
making the world of tomorrow. Rana Dasgupta wrote earlier this year an 
amazing article "The demise of the nation state" [6]. If what he writes 
is true, and it seems to be, the borders issue will become even more 
complicated.


In my opinion, the OSM should map nation states' borders in such a way 
as to promote constructive innovative peaceful resolutions of the 
territorial disputes. At the same time the interests of travelers and 
local residents should be also taken into account. If two competing 
borders are shown, still the line of passport control, where a tourist 
may be actually stopped for the passport & customs control somehow 
should be marked on the map. So she/he could prepare for the control, or 
not to cross inadvertently while hiking, cycling or rowing in wilderness.


No idea I heard or saw so far is perfect. I think there is still a lot 
of space for innovation in this domain.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico)
[2] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Poland_during_and_after_World_War_II

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_Against_Expulsions
[4] https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Mission_Statement
[5] 
https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/fundamental-principles-commentary-010179.htm
[6] 
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 23.11.18 10:10, Tomas Straupis wrote:

I fear that this is only "kicking the can down the road" though because
we'd likely have - just as we have with names - one "default" set of
boundaries where we say "that's the one you get if you don't ask for any
particular one", and the fight would then be on which one that is going

   "default" is not required (map/app creator should have a freedom to
make decision).

   The only change required is to allow OVERLAPPING borders which
apparently is a normal thing for borders even when there is no war,
nobody on the ground to make "ground truth". For example:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Plus code grid service

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Please, ignore my question about grid color. I solved it myself. The 
grid works fine on the OSM map with Leaflet. Colors change all right.

Brgds,
O.

On 11/19/2018 6:36 PM, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

Thank you for the information!

I implemented the grid on my OLC (Plus) code Generator & Search 
web-application: http://ausleuchtung.ch/olc/


It works fine. The grid appears almost immediately.

I read that it is possible to change the color of the grid, and that 
it is done via col=white or col=red. Could you, please, specify where 
I can add this option? When I add it after "tms: true," it does not work.


Best regards,
Oleksiy



On 19.11.18 16:43, Doug Rinckes wrote:
We're really excited to launch a free plus code grid service at 
https://grid.plus.codes <https://grid.plus.codes/>


(Plus codes is an open source algorithm to combine location with 
locality names, so that you can have address-like references in 
places where street addresses don't exist, like this school in 
Ghana: 8MF9+5C Sunyani. Plus codes are displayed and supported in 
Google Maps as well as some other apps.)


One of the strengths of plus codes is that they are based on a grid. 
Up to now, the only way to visualise the plus code grid was with the 
JavaScript grid overlay library, and that only worked with Google Maps.


The grid service means you can fetch the grid and overlay it on top 
of your map using any library or application that supports TMS 
requests, using either GeoJSON or image tiles. This could be a GIS 
application, or a map that uses the Google Maps, Leaflet or Open 
Layers libraries, etc.


The service also produces KML, making it possible to view the grid 
using Google Earth. Just download the file at 
https://grid.plus.codes/pluscode.kml and open it with Google Earth 
(desktop, app or web), and it will draw the grid whenever you move 
the map.


Whatever format you choose, the level of detail of the grid depends 
on the zoom level. If you zoom in, it will show more precise grid 
levels. The image tiles display the plus code for each grid square, 
the KML format displays an info bubble when you click on a grid cell, 
and the GeoJSON output includes it so you can display it any way you 
want.


For more information, see the website https://plus.codes 
<https://plus.codes/> or our GitHub 
https://github.com/google/open-location-code


Ngā mihi,
Doug Rinckes, Technical Program Manager, Google Switzerland GmbH; 
9G8F+6WZürich 
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/9G8F%2B6W%20Z%C3%BCrich>


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Plus code grid service

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Thank you for the information!

I implemented the grid on my OLC (Plus) code Generator & Search 
web-application: http://ausleuchtung.ch/olc/


It works fine. The grid appears almost immediately.

I read that it is possible to change the color of the grid, and that it 
is done via col=white or col=red. Could you, please, specify where I can 
add this option? When I add it after "tms: true," it does not work.


Best regards,
Oleksiy



On 19.11.18 16:43, Doug Rinckes wrote:
We're really excited to launch a free plus code grid service at 
https://grid.plus.codes 


(Plus codes is an open source algorithm to combine location with 
locality names, so that you can have address-like references in places 
where street addresses don't exist, like this school in Ghana: 8MF9+5C 
Sunyani. Plus codes are displayed and supported in Google Maps as well 
as some other apps.)


One of the strengths of plus codes is that they are based on a grid. 
Up to now, the only way to visualise the plus code grid was with the 
JavaScript grid overlay library, and that only worked with Google Maps.


The grid service means you can fetch the grid and overlay it on top of 
your map using any library or application that supports TMS requests, 
using either GeoJSON or image tiles. This could be a GIS application, 
or a map that uses the Google Maps, Leaflet or Open Layers libraries, etc.


The service also produces KML, making it possible to view the grid 
using Google Earth. Just download the file at 
https://grid.plus.codes/pluscode.kml and open it with Google Earth 
(desktop, app or web), and it will draw the grid whenever you move the 
map.


Whatever format you choose, the level of detail of the grid depends on 
the zoom level. If you zoom in, it will show more precise grid levels. 
The image tiles display the plus code for each grid square, the KML 
format displays an info bubble when you click on a grid cell, and the 
GeoJSON output includes it so you can display it any way you want.


For more information, see the website https://plus.codes 
 or our GitHub 
https://github.com/google/open-location-code


Ngā mihi,
Doug Rinckes, Technical Program Manager, Google Switzerland GmbH; 
9G8F+6WZürich 


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cycle.travel's OSM bike routing now covers Scandinavia and Eastern Europe

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It is a good news.

Still it is only a part of Eastern Europe. Here is an article with the 
map of Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe


I was recently in the town of Izmail, Ukraine. Thee are quite a few 
cycling venues there. For example this new park on the shore of the 
Danube river:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Park-Museum-aerial-1.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Park-Museum-aerial-8.jpg

Cycling is allowed in the parks there. Local population is using 
bicycles quite a lot; in fact I was surprised by it. There are bicycle 
parking amenities even near the temples; it is possible to see a bicycle 
parking near the Izmail cathedral and a bicycle on it on this image 
after zooming in:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Intercession-Cathedral-2.jpg

I mapped some bicycle parkings, but come to think of it next time I will 
map them all.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 19.11.18 13:41, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Hi all,

I've just added coverage of Scandinavia and Eastern Europe to the 
OSM-powered bike routing at https://cycle.travel/map .


New countries are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, 
Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Serbia, Kosovo, 
(North) Macedonia, Albania, Greece. Added to the existing countries, 
that makes full coverage of Europe and North America.


cycle.travel's route-planning loves quiet roads and cycleways; takes 
account of elevation, signposted cycle routes, and surfaces; and 
parses lots of OSM tags in order to get good results.


cheers
Richard

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] 3rd party API integration

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I wrote a web-application which can display either Wikipedia articles of 
any language version, which have got geographical coordinates, or 
Wikidata items, which have got coordinates, or Wikimedia Commons 
categories with coordinates, or OSM objects which have got wikidata=, 
wikipedia=, wikimedia_commons=* tags around a location.


The web-application is available via the link:
http://ausleuchtung.ch/geo_wiki/

It is about twenty file lines of code. All heavy lifting is done by the 
Wikipedia, Wikidata, Wikimedia APIs, or in one word - MediaWiki API, and 
the Overpass API. Click on the map and the geo-markers with the 
corresponding links will appear on the map around the click. With 
Wikimedia API, i.e. with the Wikimedia Commons categories, it sometimes 
may work after a slight delay, as if the API is "asleep" to save energy, 
but as soon as one starts to use it, after about half a minute it works 
fine.


I am thinking of integrating also search of videos with coordinates 
around the click. However, I am not certain yet with videos.


I use this web-application for planning my surveys to see what is there 
at a certain place, which categories I may improve, what Wikidata items 
I may enrich being on the ground, etc.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 17.11.18 17:01, Sebastian Kürten wrote:

Hi John,

yes indeed such references are not visible on a rendered map, but that
is true for many kinds of information stored in OSM. As you point out
this is more interesting for other types of data consumers such as
mobile apps. Website links are a great example for linked content as
well. Now that I'm thinking about it, telephone numbers and Wikipedia
references are of a similar type that can be easily used by app users.
I'm just looking for more examples to get an idea of what people are
doing already to connect OSM with other services, especially via APIs.

Thanks,
Sebastian

On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 10:49:28 -0500
John Whelan  wrote:


How would you expect this work?  On a rendered tile I can't see a way
but on an offline version such as osmand you can already link to a
webpage.

Cheerio John

Sebastian Kürten wrote on 2018-11-17 10:28 AM:

Hi,

is anybody aware of 3rd party APIs that are integrated into the OSM
database? An example for what I mean would be a mapped car park
with an API link added as a tag that offers functionality such as
retrieving the number of available parking spots. Another example
would be uic_ref values on railway=station objects or ref:X values
on highway=bus_stop objects which also allow using 3rd party APIs
using these identifiers. Yet another example I already know about
are Wikidata identifiers that allow queries to the Wikidata Query
Service.

Thanks for any input on this,
Sebastian

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] problem with the public GPX lines in my JOSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 11/12/2018 11:37 AM, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 12/11/2018 10:26, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

To be visible on the OSM map "Public GPS Traces" layer, the GPX 
should be published as "Public". This layer is useful for people, 
who, for instance, do hiking in wilderness. Because sometimes a path 
is not mapped yet, but a GPX trace shows that someone could actually 
walk there. And if there are several traces, it means that there is 
probably a path.


It would be a good idea if these public GPX traces were shown also as 
a line in JOSM.


If you read the description you will see "public" just means the
points are public but the ordering it not.

The "trackable" level extends that to include ordering.

Tom

I got it now. I understood from this page: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Visibility_of_GPS_traces


that if I want a GPX trace to be displayed both on the the OSM map 
"Public GPS Traces" layer and in the JOSM as a meaningful line, I should 
publish it with "Identifiable" option.


A GPX trace which was uploaded with "Public" option could be displayed 
correctly only as dots in the JOSM and other editors from now on.


"Trackable" GPX file will not be visible on the the OSM map "Public GPS 
Traces" layer.


I assume (in future) the JOSM editor shall not be attempting to display 
"public" GPXs as a confusing meaningless lines, but only as dots. And 
display as lines the "Identifiable" and "trackable" traces.


Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] problem with the public GPX lines in my JOSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 11/12/2018 11:11 AM, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 12/11/2018 09:58, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

I would expect this to come from some privacy setting? Maybe you are 
not sharing timestamps in the trace settings on osm.org 
?


Yes a bug was discovered last week which meant that traces that
were marked as "private" or "public" which are not meant to be
ordered were in fact being returned in order and several editors
were taking advantage of that.

The bug was fixed and as a result data from those traces is
displaying in a confusing way in JOSM and (until a few hours
ago) in Potlatch 2.

Tom


Hi Tom,

Thank you for the information.

To be visible on the OSM map "Public GPS Traces" layer, the GPX should 
be published as "Public". This layer is useful for people, who, for 
instance, do hiking in wilderness. Because sometimes a path is not 
mapped yet, but a GPX trace shows that someone could actually walk 
there. And if there are several traces, it means that there is probably 
a path.


It would be a good idea if these public GPX traces were shown also as a 
line in JOSM.


I mean if I publish a GPX file, I would like it to be visible as a line 
both on the the OSM map "Public GPS Traces" layer, and in the JOSM 
editor. Dots-only style in the JOSM is also OK, especially if the dots 
of one GPS trace could be connected with a thin line. Let it be a 
different, thinner line, but a line. Because in places with a lot of GPS 
dots it is not clear which dot belong to which trace.


Best regards,

Oleksiy



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] problem with the public GPX lines in my JOSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

The public GPX traces lines in my JOSM are shown chaotically and 
meaningless. But when I switch to the dots-only option, then it is OK. 
On the OSM map the same public GPX is shown correctly, as a meaningful 
line. Also in the iD editor it is the correct GPX line.


This behavior is present on two different computers, one macOS, another 
Windows, both with the latest version of JOSM.



I recorded this GPX with a smartphone app.


Here is the screenshot where this GPX is displayed in JOSM with dots 
correctly:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iFApw9KwoAEXOVbzIuXXhwUdINAvfGP2


a screenshot where JOSM shows the GPX as the chaotic lines:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MPsZUxh7eZ8Zr-W9sS1PisBZoBy3EgBU


the same public GPX trace on the OSM map is displayed correctly:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/45.34008/28.81218=G


in the iD editor it is OK:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FnAr0s3EoFUKTL8nay9pTz2s4kF1qszt


There are similar chaotic lines for other public GPXs, which were 
recorded by other people.


Is it only my local problem? Or is it not a problem at all, but a 
feature? I keep changing settings in my JOSM, but these chaotic public 
GPX lines persist. I do not remember having this problem before.



When I open a GPX file locally in JOSM, it is shown correctly. This 
problem appears only with downloaded public GPXs.



Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin GPS and OSM-based maps

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Andy,

Thank you. It was helpful.

It is definitely better than a smartphone, mostly to the battery (14-16 
hours) & EGNOS correction. I learned how to install the OSM map on the 
device, - basically export/copy/paste the .img file.


I also acquired an accessory, - a big aluminum clip to attach the device 
to a backpack. It is quite convenient to keep it outside, well visible 
to satellites.


Best regards,
O.


On 06.11.18 13:46, Andy Townsend wrote:


Whilst it's great that Garmin are offering the convenience 
pre-installed OSM-based maps, it's worth bearing in mind that there 
are lots of free download options - see 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mkgmap for creating your own and 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download for 
ready-made downloadable options.


http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ is a good place to start for "I want 
maps for a certain part of the world".


There are lots of help questions about the mechanics of installing 
maps on Windows, Linux, MacOS etc. at https://help.openstreetmap.org/ 
, and these might be an easier place to start reading than the wiki 
(which can be a bit confused at times).


I do have a GPSMap64s with preinstalled Garmin maps* that aren't 
OSM-based.  One problem with those is that they contain lots of old, 
inaccurate non-OSM POIs that it's impossible to turn off without 
removing the SD card - hopefully your OSM-based maps from Garmin won't 
share this problem.


Re EGNOS on an Etrex 35, assuming it's similar to an Etrex 30x, it's 
noticeably more accurate (within a few meters as opposed to a few tens 
of meters) when you're somewhere with WAAS/EGNOS coverage compared to 
when you're not (in my case it was Europe with and Australia without, 
but that was a while ago - don't know if the Australian situation has 
changed).


Barometric altimeter (on both Etrex30x and GPSMap64s) tend to be 
accurate to within 10m at the top of the hill if you've calibrated 
them at the bottom, but not if you haven't (apologies for being 
Captain Obvious there!).


Battery use on both Etrex30x and GPSMap64s are something like "one 
pair of rechargeable AA batteries every day and a half" (if it's on 
all day).


Re the new 66s my understanding is that it can use 2 of 
GPS/Glonass/Galileo at the same time.  Personally I'd wait to see a 
"review involving OSM-based map use" before getting one, but I'm sure 
they'll appear fairly soon.


Other non-Garmin options for "something to last all day" might be an 
old phone with GPS in it and user-removable batteries.  An old 
Blackberry might be an option (they still work after you manage to 
drop them on the floor, and you might find the keyboard more usable 
than a touchscreen when it's cold).


Best Regards,

Andy

* at the time this was essentially "free" due to availability and what 
stock the various discounters carried - in theory its about £60 extra, 
and probably isn't worth that.



On 06/11/2018 11:37, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

Thank you, dikkeknodel.

I also received an email message with an advice to acquire Garmin 
eTrex.  I've ordered the Garmin eTrex 35 Touch with the pre-installed 
«TopoActive» Karte Europa, which is based on the OSM data, as I 
understood:

https://www.brack.ch/garmin-hand-gps-etrex-touch-370929

It supports the EGNOS, European Geostationary Navigation Overlay 
Service, which is supposed to correct the GPS signal. I have no idea 
how it works in reality. It also has got the GPS and barometric 
altimeters.


Best regards,
Oleksiy



On 05.11.18 19:59, _ dikkeknodel wrote:


Hi all,

Thanks for all the great advice. I’ve looked into uMap and it does 
the job perfectly. With all the gpx of over a year of hiking 
imported it still runs smoothly.


I would like to prevent running into performance issues later 
though. Does anybody know if it is wise to add ‘simplified’ versions 
of the gpx to uMap instead of the original recordings with 1 s 
resolution?


Since the published data is public, I just have to take into account 
not to import gpx which start from my home since I value my ‘sort of 
anonymity’.


*@Oleksiy*

To answer Oleksiy’s question, I record with OSMand on a Moto G4 
smartphone, that works like a charm. Off course there is fluctuation 
due to accuracy errors, I guess 10-15 m is achievable most of the 
time, but close to near vertical mountains it becomes much worse.


It however does never happen that I miss long stretches of data 
(except for tunnels ). I did have that problem in the past, when 
<15% battery charge and Android automatically started the battery 
saving mode. That just turned of the gps antenna whenever the screen 
was off. So now I have set battery saving mode to off.


Also OSMand does not drain the battery much. Usually I do take a lot 
of notes which OSMand attaches to the gpx and loads perfectly into 
JOSM. Recently I also used the voice recorder of OSMand, which 
really speeds up

Re: [OSM-talk] How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM map?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Thank you, dikkeknodel.

I also received an email message with an advice to acquire Garmin 
eTrex.  I've ordered the Garmin eTrex 35 Touch with the pre-installed 
«TopoActive» Karte Europa, which is based on the OSM data, as I understood:

https://www.brack.ch/garmin-hand-gps-etrex-touch-370929

It supports the EGNOS, European Geostationary Navigation Overlay 
Service, which is supposed to correct the GPS signal. I have no idea how 
it works in reality. It also has got the GPS and barometric altimeters.


Best regards,
Oleksiy



On 05.11.18 19:59, _ dikkeknodel wrote:


Hi all,

Thanks for all the great advice. I’ve looked into uMap and it does the 
job perfectly. With all the gpx of over a year of hiking imported it 
still runs smoothly.


I would like to prevent running into performance issues later though. 
Does anybody know if it is wise to add ‘simplified’ versions of the 
gpx to uMap instead of the original recordings with 1 s resolution?


Since the published data is public, I just have to take into account 
not to import gpx which start from my home since I value my ‘sort of 
anonymity’.


*@Oleksiy*

To answer Oleksiy’s question, I record with OSMand on a Moto G4 
smartphone, that works like a charm. Off course there is fluctuation 
due to accuracy errors, I guess 10-15 m is achievable most of the 
time, but close to near vertical mountains it becomes much worse.


It however does never happen that I miss long stretches of data 
(except for tunnels ). I did have that problem in the past, when 
<15% battery charge and Android automatically started the battery 
saving mode. That just turned of the gps antenna whenever the screen 
was off. So now I have set battery saving mode to off.


Also OSMand does not drain the battery much. Usually I do take a lot 
of notes which OSMand attaches to the gpx and loads perfectly into 
JOSM. Recently I also used the voice recorder of OSMand, which really 
speeds up the note taking while on the go in comparison to typing. 
These also load into JOSM via the gpx, but some fiddling with the 
location of the audio is required. Taking notes on the phone does have 
an effect on the battery life off course. A 20 km hike in the 
mountains easily takes 6-8h, which my phone reaches most of the time 
on one charge in flight mode. I do have a power-bank as back-up, and 
for multi-day hikes though.


Altitude measurements have always been a bit tricky with OSMand. I 
guess the raw elevation data from gps fluctuates quite a lot, and the 
data processing did not do a good job filtering errors from actual 
elevation change. After a hike with 1000m elevation gain according to 
the map, OSMand often showed I did 5000m... The graph of the track you 
can generate in OSMand also showed a lot of spikes with instant 
ascents of >200m. Recently that seems to have changed and the 
measurements seem to better represent the actual situation.


Hope this helps you with you work OSM workflow!

Cheers,

dikkeknodel

*Van: *Oleksiy Muzalyev <mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>
*Verzonden: *zaterdag 3 november 2018 18:51
*Onderwerp: *Re: [OSM-talk] How to get an overview of multiple gpx on 
OSM map?


Hi _dikkeknodel,

I have a question - how do you record a GPX trace during 20 km walk? 
It should be about 4 hours.


I also record GPS traces but usually for 15-20 minutes. I use a phone 
with the OSMTracker app for Android with mixed results. Sometimes it 
records a path well, sometimes it turns the second part of the walk 
into a long direct line. Such a trace I usually discard.


Besides it empties the phone battery rather quickly. I usually take a 
power-bank with me, but still it is not a good solution to get a phone 
battery empty in mountains.


I am thinking of getting a dedicated device which can record the GPX 
files, on the OSM map, and also measure and altitude more or less 
correctly. The question is - what device, what model.


Best regards,
Oleksiy


On 03.11.18 16:09, _ dikkeknodel wrote:

Hi all,

Ever since I moved to Switzerland over a year ago I’ve been both
hiking in the mountains and updating OSM details a lot. Since I
hike at least 20 km every weekend, it must have totaled to about
1200 km by now all across the country. I would love to get an
overview of where I have been so far.

Since I’ve got a GPX file of almost every hike, the data is there.
I am now looking for a nice graphical way to plot all of these
files at once on a nice OSM map, OpenTopoMap as a base layer would
be great.

I’ve been searching for a while how to arrange this (without much
programming knowledge), but I am kind of lost at the moment.

Does anybody have a hint?

Cheers,

dikkeknodel




___

talk mailing list

talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___

Re: [OSM-talk] How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM map?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi _dikkeknodel,

I have a question - how do you record a GPX trace during 20 km walk? It 
should be about 4 hours.


I also record GPS traces but usually for 15-20 minutes. I use a phone 
with the OSMTracker app for Android with mixed results. Sometimes it 
records a path well, sometimes it turns the second part of the walk into 
a long direct line. Such a trace I usually discard.


Besides it empties the phone battery rather quickly. I usually take a 
power-bank with me, but still it is not a good solution to get a phone 
battery empty in mountains.


I am thinking of getting a dedicated device which can record the GPX 
files, on the OSM map, and also measure and altitude more or less 
correctly. The question is - what device, what model.


Best regards,
Oleksiy


On 03.11.18 16:09, _ dikkeknodel wrote:


Hi all,

Ever since I moved to Switzerland over a year ago I’ve been both 
hiking in the mountains and updating OSM details a lot. Since I hike 
at least 20 km every weekend, it must have totaled to about 1200 km by 
now all across the country. I would love to get an overview of where I 
have been so far.


Since I’ve got a GPX file of almost every hike, the data is there. I 
am now looking for a nice graphical way to plot all of these files at 
once on a nice OSM map, OpenTopoMap as a base layer would be great.


I’ve been searching for a while how to arrange this (without much 
programming knowledge), but I am kind of lost at the moment.


Does anybody have a hint?

Cheers,

dikkeknodel



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] it seems josm.openstreetmap.de is down

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Yes, I recalled it now. I did see the announcement. Thank you.
Best regards,
O.
On 30.10.18 18:40, James wrote:
if you read josm announcement (start of josm) there's maintenance for 
a couple hours


On Tue., Oct. 30, 2018, 12:33 p.m. Oleksiy Muzalyev, 
mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>> wrote:


I cannot open the link https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ and I cannot
launch the JOSM application on macOS.

I do not know if these two issues are connected.

Best regards,

O.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] it seems josm.openstreetmap.de is down

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I cannot open the link https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ and I cannot 
launch the JOSM application on macOS.


I do not know if these two issues are connected.

Best regards,

O.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: DWG policy on Crimea

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

The situation with Crimea is not clear-cut. It is kind of complicated. 
For instance, the climate in Crimea is very dry, that is why the water 
from the river Dnieper had been transferred to Crimea by an immense 
artificial North Crimean Canal [1]. Now the Dnieper water is not sold to 
Crimea any more.


The newspaper Le Monde named Rana Dasgupta one of 70 people who are 
making the world of tomorrow [2]. Speaking figuratively, an electrician 
may work with wires without knowing Maxwell's equations or Ohm's law 
formulas. Still, it is better that he has some notion of the theory of 
electromagnetism.


The same is here. We try to discuss border dispute between the nation 
states. I just recommended to read an article [3] of the well known 
essayist and thinker about the nation state evolution as a political, 
economical, and philosophical concept. It will not solve this dispute, 
but at least, its nature could be better understood.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Crimean_Canal
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rana_Dasgupta
[3] 
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 22.10.18 15:25, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
Can you summarize parts of this article (5k+ words, in "long read" 
section) that are relevant to

tagging of Russian and Ukrainian border in the Crimea?

22. Oct 2018 00:44 by oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch 
:


Hi Martin,

Before continuing this discussion further, I would advise to read
the amazing article "The demise of the nation state" by Rana
Dasgupta available via this link:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta

The issue of national state boundaries is more profound and
ubiquitous than it may seem at first sight. This topic is
controversial and complicated, and Rana Dasgupta's analyses
provides some good starting-point insights.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 21.10.18 16:12, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

Dear all,

we all know how sensible the topic of disputed boundaries can
be (they are not necessarily a big problem, many boundary
disputes like between Italy and France about the summit of
Mont Blanc / Monte Bianco, have little bearing on the actual
life of people).

Therefore we can all be satisfied there is clear guidance from
the board how to deal with this: the local situation
determines how we map, and the OSMF is explicit here:
“National borders are particularly sensitive. Currently, we
record one set that, in OpenStreetMap contributor opinion, is
most widely internationally recognised and best meets
realities on the ground, generally meaning physical control.”


https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.

pdf


When I recently looked at Crimea I noticed it is still part of
the Ucraine in OSM: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/60199

As many might know, the current boundary situation for Crimea
was frozen 4 years ago “for a short time” by the DWG and so I
asked them about their current position 2 months ago, and
after I got no reply, tried to remind them 5 weeks ago, but
have not yet gotten any reply, so I am now opening this thread
here.

IMHO, for consistency and credibility, we should either
recognize that Russia is actually controlling Crimea, or we
should update the disputed borders information. As I believe
the general concept of ground truth for admin boundaries was a
good idea, I would tend to the former.

I also believe the actual situation has already been ignored
for too long. When the thing is still dynamic or/and we’re in
the middle of a conflict it can be wise to step back and see
for some time how things are evolving, but 4 years are a lot
of time, something like one year would seem more reasonable.

What do you think?

Cheers, Martin

sent from a phone

Begin forwarded message:

*From:* Martin Koppenhoefer mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>>
*Date:* 20. August 2018 at 10:42:33 CEST
*To:* d...@osmfoundation.org 
*Subject:* *DWG policy on Crimea*


Dear members of the DWG,

as of this question in the help forum:


https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/65436/what-is-the-current-position-of-the-dataworkinggroup-on-crimea


I kindly invite you to reconsider and eventually update
your position on the situation in Crimea.

As you have stated in 2014, this should not be the long
term way to deal with the 

Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: DWG policy on Crimea

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Martin,

Before continuing this discussion further, I would advise to read the 
amazing article "The demise of the nation state" by Rana Dasgupta 
available via this link: 
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta


The issue of national state boundaries is more profound and ubiquitous 
than it may seem at first sight. This topic is controversial and 
complicated, and Rana Dasgupta's analyses provides some good 
starting-point insights.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 21.10.18 16:12, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

Dear all,

we all know how sensible the topic of disputed boundaries can be (they 
are not necessarily a big problem, many boundary disputes like between 
Italy and France about the summit of Mont Blanc / Monte Bianco, have 
little bearing on the actual life of people).


Therefore we can all be satisfied there is clear guidance from the 
board how to deal with this: the local situation determines how we 
map, and the OSMF is explicit here: “National borders are particularly 
sensitive. Currently, we record one set that, in OpenStreetMap 
contributor opinion, is most widely internationally recognised and 
best meets realities on the ground, generally meaning physical control.”


https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation. 
pdf 



When I recently looked at Crimea I noticed it is still part of the 
Ucraine in OSM: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/60199


As many might know, the current boundary situation for Crimea was 
frozen 4 years ago “for a short time” by the DWG and so I asked them 
about their current position 2 months ago, and after I got no reply, 
tried to remind them 5 weeks ago, but have not yet gotten any reply, 
so I am now opening this thread here.


IMHO, for consistency and credibility, we should either recognize that 
Russia is actually controlling Crimea, or we should update the 
disputed borders information. As I believe the general concept of 
ground truth for admin boundaries was a good idea, I would tend to the 
former.


I also believe the actual situation has already been ignored for too 
long. When the thing is still dynamic or/and we’re in the middle of a 
conflict it can be wise to step back and see for some time how things 
are evolving, but 4 years are a lot of time, something like one year 
would seem more reasonable.


What do you think?

Cheers, Martin

sent from a phone

Begin forwarded message:

*From:* Martin Koppenhoefer >

*Date:* 20. August 2018 at 10:42:33 CEST
*To:* d...@osmfoundation.org 
*Subject:* *DWG policy on Crimea*


Dear members of the DWG,

as of this question in the help forum:

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/65436/what-is-the-current-position-of-the-dataworkinggroup-on-crimea 



I kindly invite you to reconsider and eventually update your position 
on the situation in Crimea.


As you have stated in 2014, this should not be the long term way to 
deal with the situation, and short term is probably coming to an end. 
There is clear guidance by the OSMF board how to deal with disputed 
boundaries (as the situation seems to be more stable than some would 
have liked).


My motivation is not promoting the Russian point of view, but to act 
predictably and consistent wrt sensible topics.


Thank you,
cheers,
Martin



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 170, Issue 22

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 19.10.18 19:08, John Whelan wrote:
> A map created with this technology could revolutionize quite a few industries. For example 
the agriculture [2], internet sales & delivery, etc. Basically, the 
roads, paths, alleys, etc. on the map could be precise enough to be 
used by a slow-moving robotized vehicles without constant LIDAR laser 
scanning.


 Agreed but could you trust OSM as a source for this?  Unfortunately 
we are open to vandalism even if the ways were mapped to high accuracy 
in the first place and there is still the problem of temporary 
obstacles in the way.


Cheerio John


Hi John,

The first basic phone appeared in 1849. However, the full potential of 
this technology started to demonstrate itself by 30s, several decades 
later. Computerized maps are only about 15 years old.


The "DJI’s Ultimate Mapping Solution" is still quite expensive, however 
if this technology becomes affordable with mass production, what is 
DJI's specialty, then it will be the brave new world.


If one could go to a common shopping center and buy a device which 
allows to map several square kilometers per day with one centimeter 
precision (0.39 inch) both horizontally and vertically, it would 
probably generate many new ideas both in programming and physical 
applications.


Best regards,

Oleksiy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 170, Issue 22

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Dear St Niklaas,

Indeed, this message looked like an ad, though it was not. I have no 
affiliation to the DJI company whatsoever.


Rather I wanted to share the news that the RTK, real time kinematic, 
technology [1] becomes available via major producers. We know that in a 
city the GPS precision is not very great, only up to 15 - 20 meters. The 
RTK GPS, however, provides up to centimeter-level accuracy, both 
horizontally and even vertically(!).


A map created with this technology could revolutionize quite a few 
industries. For example the agriculture [2], internet sales & delivery, 
etc. Basically, the roads, paths, alleys, etc. on the map could be 
precise enough to be used by a slow-moving robotized vehicles without 
constant LIDAR laser scanning.


The purpose of my message was to share this news, I am sorry if it was 
understood as an ad.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_kinematic
[2] https://youtu.be/2WO-1E3WJdE

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 18.10.18 16:29, St Niklaas wrote:


What the  how did this message came through to the Talk list ?

It looks like an ad to me or is it my mistake ?


Greetz




*Van:* talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
*Verzonden:* donderdag 18 oktober 2018 14:00
*Aan:* talk@openstreetmap.org
*Onderwerp:* talk Digest, Vol 170, Issue 22
Send talk mailing list submissions to
    talk@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 

talk Info Page - lists.openstreetmap.org Mailing Lists 


lists.openstreetmap.org
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the talk 
Archives.. Using talk: To post a message to all the list members, send 
email to talk@openstreetmap.org. You can subscribe to the list, or 
change your existing subscription, in the sections below.



or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Phantom 4 RTK launched roday: DJI’s Ultimate Mapping
  Solution (oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:13:12 +0200
From: "oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch" 
To: talk 
Subject: [OSM-talk] Phantom 4 RTK launched roday: DJI’s Ultimate
    Mapping Solution
Message-ID:
<-a729umlwlno2-aygy9og8ns5j-zhosakv8kafb9w6pbm-68mcx0-x8vdx6640bzx-rn6o21o37g1le47vfh-16d1oo-5crvr2-9tppz1-ehhm05cn5inqq7mcme-ued5iaau4r1n-wkskmsoxttr2-82mob.1539789025...@email.android.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

For your information:

https://dronelife.com/2018/10/15/phantom-4-rtk-launched-globally-today-djis-ultimate-mapping-solution/
Best regards
Oleksiy

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

--

Subject: Digest Footer

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


--

End of talk Digest, Vol 170, Issue 22
*


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Proximity

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 29.09.18 00:46, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

On 28.09.2018 23:21, john whelan wrote:

Many cities have had their bus stops imported.

And even more cities have their bus stops mapped in the traditional
fashion, like, riding a bus and recording where it stops. It's amazing
how much you can do with one day pass :)


what else is needed to work it out?

[...]

2. The existence of a bus stop in OSM does not mean it is actually
served by a route; and the existence of a route in OSM that serves the
bus stop does not necessarily say what frequency - it could be the
school bus that only goes three times a day, or the night bus, or the
bus extension to the pool that only goes in summer.

Bye
Frederik

On this website one can see on the OSM map not only the locations of 
stops, but the positions of the public transportation vehicles 
themselves in real time. Here are the positions of the tram (light 
train) #28 in the city of Odessa: 
https://www.eway.in.ua/ru/cities/odesa/routes/1


It is very convenient as one does not have to wait at the stop but can 
leave home or office just in time to get on the tram. So no need to have 
too many vehicles on the route as one can comfortably plan the trip even 
if there are not many.


I think such dynamic real-time mapping is the future of public 
transportation and cartography in general, though I am not sure how it 
is implemented on this particular website. I assume they use GPS 
sensors. But how they transmit locations to the map's server constantly 
I am not sure.


Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi,

I just returned from test flights of the new design of the 
Do-It-Yourself (DIY) flying wing with the Kline-Fogleman modified, KFm2, 
airfoil. This time it is a twin engine puller, or tractor, 75 cm 
(approx. 30 inches) flying wing.


I've been working for quite a while on a DIY aerial platform. And this 
time I created, probably by chance, a really good design. It is easy to 
launch, very stable in the air, easy to land, and most importantly, - it 
is quiet while cruising at altitude.


I published a small report article with photos and a video at: 
http://ausleuchtung.ch/kfm2/kfm2-puller.php . In a short, 40 seconds, 
video it is seen that when it flies at an altitude of about 100 meters 
we cannot hear it.


The requirements which I try to achieve are the following:

- the cost of the airframe is about 5 USD
- the airframe could be built DIY in two-three hours completely
- excellent uncompromising flying characteristics
- capable of carrying a GoPro type camera
- only common motors and electronics, which could be scraped, being used
- the RC aircraft is quiet enough to be employed in urban areas
- fail safe, - in case of failure it does not drop, but glides 
gracefully to land

- could be transported on a bicycle or e-bike

For the fist time, I see that it is practically achievable.

The puller means that the engine is forward of the wing. The puller, or 
tractor, is much quieter than a pusher as the propellers work in 
undisturbed air.
The idea is to create an affordable open-source DIY design which could 
be used for mapping, aerial photography, journalism, surveys, etc. The 
patents for KFm airfoil expired in 90s. The KFm2 airfoil is incredibly 
easy to build, plus it has got excellent lifting characteristics.


Best regards,
Oleksiy



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Error on OSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Stadia Arcadia,

I added lighting masts for the stadium Stade Raymond-Kopa ( 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tower:type=lighting ). I 
indicated height as 50 meters by estimation from Wikimedia photos of 
this stadium. I also added some trees and a parking.


It seems that the tribune Tribune Coubertin indeed has got the square 
shape jugging from this ground photo 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tribune-Colombier.jpg made in 
January 2018. But on all the aerial imagery available in the JOSM editor 
it does not have the square shape yet.


If you need to update it urgently you may order the orthorectified 
aerial image from say https://www.dronebase.com/ , and then the map 
could be updated accordingly. Did you mean that you cannot do it 
yourself because you could not find the up to date orthorectified image? 
Or you cannot update the map due to some physical reason? Or you just do 
not know how to do it? If the latter than you can watch tutorials on 
youtube where everything is explained clearly. Search for something like 
"mapping in josm" at youtube.


Best regards,
Oleksiy


On 05.09.18 16:56, Stadia Arcadia wrote:
Hi, "Tribune Colombier" of Stade Raymond-Kopa now has the same size as 
"Tribune Coubertin". Is now has a square shape. The old stand has been 
replaced with a new one. Who can fix this? I'm a member of OSM, but I 
can't get it fixed. Who can do it for me? I'd really appreciate that. 
Thanks for the help already.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.46040/-0.53094=N


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] 46 errors on OSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

There are several stadiums in Nizhny Novgorod. One of the largest is 
Lokomotiv https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2767108


There is a link to the Wikidata item on the OSM map, at the left side. 
If you visit this Wikidata page https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2503505 
then you may see the correct name of this stadium in English.


Knowing the correct name in English you may add the "name:en=Lokomotiv 
Stadium" to the OSM map as described here: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names because so far 
the name is only in Russia language, in Cyrillic script. But do not 
delete or change the existing name(s) in Cyrillic letters.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 9/4/2018 12:25 PM, Stadia Arcadia wrote:

Hi, I found some errors on OSM, can anyone fix those?

Missing stadiums:
...
15 Nizhny Novgorod Stadium
...



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Open Location Code and Graffiti

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi John,

I started to work on a tool which generates the OLC in a convenient way 
on the OSM map: http://ausleuchtung.ch/olc/


Just left click on the map to get the OLC code. The map memorizes a 
location where the OLC was generated last time.


The OLC length is 11 characters (8+3), it means the precision is about 
one meter.


I plan to add a possibility to save/delete the generated codes as 
geo-markers on the map.


A municipality dispatcher can retrieve a location either via link 
similar to: https://plus.codes/87C4VXQ2+P42 or via Google Maps search box.


I could not figure out how to get a location from the OLC and the 
OpenStreetMap. These links do not work so far:

https://www.osm.org/olc/87C4VXQ2+P42
https://www.osm.org/go/87C4VXQ2+P42
https://www.osm.org/87C4VXQ2+P42

The OSM's search box does not accept the OLC either.

So I will probably add the location retrieval feature to the tool too.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 26.08.18 00:03, john whelan wrote:
It sounds an odd combination but locally you can report Graffiti to 
the municipality and they arrange for it to be cleaned up by the phone 
company, electric company etc.


The targeted electric boxes are often at the back of houses or on 
stretches of highway that have no houses which means describing 
exactly where they are becomes problematical.  200 meters south of the 
X Y junction on the north side of the highway.


When reporting I use JOSM to pick up the street name from OSM then cut 
and paste it into the Web form.  I invariably make mistakes when 
trying to type in names such as Bottriell Way.


So to make this work the municipality and the phone company etc. have 
to be able to recognise the OLC codes.  I probably need to add the 
boxes as a node into OSM initially just those that have Graffiti, some 
particular ones are more frequently covered than others.


They may have to be transcribed, so do OLC codes incorporate a check 
digit?


Anyone have any experience with working with municipalities and phone 
companies etc in this way?  Yes Lat and Long would work but might be 
confusing to people who have to work with them, again check digits 
would avoid transcription errors.


I also need something to generate an OLC code when using JOSM.  I 
could use OSMand but its difficult to cut and paste from one device to 
another.


Inspiration anyone?

Thanks John


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I've built from scratch and tested an aircraft based on Kline-Fogleman 
modified KFm2 airfoil. It's wingspan is 75 cm (aprox. 30 inches). The 
cost of the airframe is less that 5 USD (a sheet of foam-board 2 USD, a 
stick of hot glue 50 cents, the packing tape 1 USD, two zip ties 20 
cents.).


Here is the link to a small article with photos and a video: 
http://ausleuchtung.ch/kfm2/ , which I wrote. This airframe is dead 
simple, it takes three-four hours to built, less if one did it before.


I scraped motor, two servos, receiver from a retired glider, but if 
bought new they would cost about 100 USD. However, these electronic 
devices are reusable and practically unbreakable.


Best regards,

Oleksiy


>Still cant beat ~50$ for a good kite pieces of string and a block of wood

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 4:19 AM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:

> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:12:49PM -0400, James wrote:
> > cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
> > into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets
> expensive
> > quickly(even building from scratch)
>
> INav on a flight controller like the Omnibus F4 should be able to do
> that for you.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff f at zz.de
>  UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away
>


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Arkhivna Street

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 16.08.18 22:34, Andy Mabbett wrote:

"This street has over a half-dozen names, all at once."

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/arkhivna-street

Mapped here, but without all those names:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/234767127


Hi Andy,

It may seem surprising to someone who lives in a place which has been 
politically and economically stable for quite a while. In lands where 
there are ongoing social and political changes streets are named, 
renamed, and renamed again. It is hard say to a taxi or ambulance driver 
to memorize street names per se in a large city.


But when they change two-three times during lifetime it is becoming 
quite a formidable task. To make things worse some people keep using in 
conversations the historic street-names, some just old names, and some 
the new ones. The case which you write about is an extreme one, 
probably, just an irony, since usually there is only one, the latest 
street-name plaque.


Nevertheless the system where an address is assigned by the unalterable 
law of nature, like the open source OLC [1], looks promising not only 
for regions where there are either no street-names, or no streets, but 
also for regions with unstable or substandard addresses. And not only 
because street-names change, but also because street names and house 
numbers signs are not lighted during dark hours, the signs are faded 
under the sun light, etc.


I listened recently to a talk "Who belongs in a city?" [2] by OluTimehin 
Adegbeye, which provides interesting insights of modern urbanism and 
makes more understandable the issues with street-names and addresses (or 
they absence) in general.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Location_Code

[2] https://www.ted.com/talks/olutimehin_adegbeye_who_belongs_in_a_city

Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 13.08.18 19:46, Daniel Koć wrote:

W dniu 13.08.2018 o 18:37, Jo pisze:


I also don't see a reason to add the OLC codes in tags in the
database, even if marked on a building.

Since buildings are not guaranteed to fit into OLC rectangles and they
not 1:1 compatible, this usage makes sense for me.

The OLC could be used also in property titles, for creating a real 
estate market where it could not exist before. Given - the OLC is 
created from coordinates by a mathematical formula and vice versa.


However, the idea was to give an address to 4+ billion people, the 
majority of the planet population, who at the time being do not have any.


Waiting until the houses are numbered and streets are named may take 
quite some time, - just type in google search "slums" and see the images 
tab.


So if it is not allowed to write the OLC as an address, what should 
people write if they do not have house numbers and street names? 
Nothing? Leave it empty as before?


Regions with classic addresses are rather exceptions, the main part of 
humanity does not have them yet at all. And the idea of the OLC is to 
provide an address, not only as a location (coordinates), but also as a 
plaque, legal address, passport record, medical insurance, school 
records, etc.


I can only imagine how humiliating for say a child to say at school that 
he does not have an address.


However, it is too early to worry about a database. I would concentrate 
first on implementing the generation of OLC and a search for OLC at the 
osm.org , i.e. creating an open source standard for an address in 
cooperation with Google Maps and others, similar as browsers agreed on 
HTML, JS, URL, DNS, SSL open standards. And then it will be seen how 
people use it.


Best regards,

O.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 12.08.18 02:59, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



On 12. Aug 2018, at 01:40, Simon Poole > wrote:


People seem to be looking more for unique ids for their dwellings 
than something that is dependent on a relatively fine grained 
location/coordinate value, of which you may have multiple for one 
house. We know this works, it is still a very common system in alpine 
regions in Europe.


It depends a lot on the details and setting, in Venice, to give an 
example with a dense urban setting, building entrances are numbered 
with 4digits, unique within their “sestiere” (literally not quarter 
but sixth), and it doesn’t work well for finding a place (unless you 
use a map which has all the numbers). For a quick impression:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/45.44062/12.34087


Cheers,
Martin






Alpine regions and Venice are probably most orderly, civilized, and 
historically rich places in the world. Alpine villages look like fairy 
tales. A public bus which serve them may have an ultra-modern colored TV 
and air conditioning.


Yes, after two or three generations and functioning educational system, 
maybe. But meanwhile I doubt very much that ids created on the ground, 
lighted plaques, are even remotely feasible in all regions.


I also think that a coding system per se is not necessarily a good 
solution, unless it becomes a universal standard. For example, as the 
HTML or URL for browsers. If two giants the OSM and Google Maps would 
support the open source OLC (plus-codes), it may work. And it could be 
good thing for further innovations in this domain, it could create a 
global market of advanced addressing solutions.


Best regards,

Oleksiy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 11.08.18 08:28, Martin Trautmann wrote:

On 18-08-09 15:32, oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch wrote:

Open Location Codes are also referred to as "plus codes".  Since August
2015, Google Maps supports plus codes in their search engine. The
algorithm is Open Source, licensed under the Apache License 2.0. and
available on GitHub [1].

Please let me help to understand OLC: is this nothing else than another
representation of lat and lon?

This may be good enough for rural areas and small buildings. But I do
not understand how it should work for very tall buildings.

How would you proceed for those tall buildings?

So how do you provide your OLC? It's the OLC of your actual location?
And you do add the OLC for the entry to your tall building?
(where bells or letter boxes might be located? Or is this an extra OLC?)
And as an extra you do provide the entry to your street?

And this is still a two dimensional address only? How about multilevel
buildings?

I do thing especially about tall buildings with a maze of corridors.
You'd need a list of OLC waypoints how to find your location - within a
building, where GPS will not work.

- Martin



___


Hi Martin,

I absolutely agree with you. The OLC is not perfect. All existing 
addressing systems remind me the situation with email addresses in early 
90s. When moving to another part of a town one had to change the email 
address, because it was provided only by an ISP.


But the OLC is open source. It tries to solve the acute problem that 
more than four billion people on Earth do not have any address for 
numerous reasons: there are no street names, there are no streets, 
buildings are constructed "illegally", etc. Even in some cities with 
existing inefficient address system finding an address could be a 
daunting task. I understand perfectly well that developers in Europe and 
North America, where there is a functional legacy system, cannot grasp 
the magnitude of the problem. It is something hard to imagine without 
being implicated.


It is not only a remote problem. The resulting excessive senseless 
driving on global scale in search of a house causes additional CO2 
pollution which concerns all.


Since the OLC (plus-code) is open source there will be further efforts 
to improve it, to solve the issues which you mentioned and some others. 
Using just coordinates, however, is like writing a program in assembler, 
it is possible but less convenient than say in C++.


With best regards,

Oleksiy




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 11.08.18 00:58, Andrew Harvey wrote:


I agree, unless people start putting up signs of the Plus Codes 
outside their house and you're mapping that as the on the ground 
housenumber. ...



___


And they will not start putting up signs of the Plus-Codes outside their 
house unless the OpenStreetMap community accept this technology. This 
was a minor experimental import for a small remote town Zeze in the 
United Republic of Tanzania. Nothing happened. It is not an issue. Zeze 
is well mapped at OpenStreetMap, but it is not present at the Google Maps.


If the OSM community accepts the OpenLocationCode, then it would become 
de facto universal addressing system. Only then people may start 
believing and investing in it.


Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 10.08.18 23:06, Simon Poole wrote:

While the goals sound worthy, it is unclear if any of the grid systems
(w3w, plus codes and so on) deliver on their promises and have any
traction outside of people in countries with established addressing
systems trying to push them as solutions for countries without.

As I've pointed out before, if OSM supports a specific system, it
amounts to us picking a winner , and I really don't think that is a good
idea. w3w wants to make money from royalties, google wants to avoid
paying them. Both have a financial interest in us adopting their
systems. IMHO when one eventually "wins" we can start supporting it
then, before one of them pasts the post, it is premature.

Simon





I think it will work like this - a dispatcher at an ambulance service 
says during a call: "We will not go to your house unless you provide the 
plus-code. Bot the Google Maps and OpenStreetMap websites allow to 
generate the plus-code for a house." I mean it will not work without a 
leadership.


The OLC is Open Source with the Apache 2.0 license. I have a doubt 
though, - cannot Google in couple of years say: "We change the license 
and not one has to pay for the OLC usage?" I am not a lawyer and I do 
not know such subtleties.


Best regards,

Oleksiy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 10.08.18 22:26, Frederik Ramm wrote:

...
The sensible approach is to add the logic that converts plus codes to
locations and vice versa to those places where people interface with the
map - be that the osm.org web site, ...


This is the focal point of this discussion. Do we want to accept the the 
Open Location Code technology at the OSM community?


It is clear that a plus-code can be converted to coordinates and vice 
versa by a formula. But that does not exist. I tried to enter a plus 
code into search box at the OSM.org, it does not work.


It works at Google Maps, but that village Zeze in Tanzania is not mapped 
yet at the Google Maps at all. But it is well mapped at the OSM.org.


brgds

O.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 10.08.18 21:07, Mark Wagner wrote:

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:32:50 -0700
Vao Matua  wrote:


Plus code can be calculated on the fly, but if they are
to be used we will need to have hardcopy maps with the addresses that
can be used to direct aid workers to a specific location.

Plus codes form a hierarchical grid, so supporting them on hardcopy
maps can easily be done when the maps are prepared for printing.

I don't know if you're familiar with the UGSG topo maps, but if you
aren't, I recommend looking at one of the 1:24000-scale maps from the
late 1970s/early 1980s.  It's got three location grids on it: UTM
coordinates and latitude/longitude markings on the outside, and PLSS
township/range/section markings on the map itself.  Adding a plus-code
grid to the map would be no problem, and wouldn't require importing
billions of tags into OSM.

It is absolutely clear. A plus-code is generated by a mathematical 
formula from coordinates almost instantaneously, and vice versa.


The same as say the binary code is generated from the C++ programming 
language, or words are created from letters, etc. It is just another 
layer of abstraction, which makes it easier to perform a task.


In principle it is possible to write a computer program in assembler, 
the low-level programming language. But it is a bit easier to do it in 
C++, Java, PHP, etc. The same is here. It is easier to memorize a 
plus-code, to transmit over the telephone, to put it on the address 
plaque, etc. Yes, it is possible to do the same thing with coordinates' 
digits, but nobody does it.


So people try to find another solutions for places which do not have 
street-name addresses, to create another layer of abstraction. 
Coordinates themselves are created from numbers and are also just an 
abstraction, but not convenient enough for most people.


Best regards,

Oleksiy



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 10.08.18 20:46, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Friday 10 August 2018, Blake Girardot wrote:

[...]

Let us find a local community that is asking for this and give it a
trial there.

I read this as "lets find some country with no sufficiently organized
local community to resists and push this nonsense idea of adding
encoded coordinates as tags to features there in a hope to sneak this
into OSM".  This is exactly the arrogant and abusive approach
what3words used for their proprietary system.

The idea of tagging encoded coordinates is so ridiculous to anyone with
a bit of understanding of computer programming, data processing and
data maintainance that even after ignoring all the arguments in
substance that have been voiced this should be universally rejected if
for no other reason then because it would make OSM the laughing stock
of the whole geodata world.

what3words is a proprietary commercial approach. The OLC is Open Source, 
and it is used at the Google Maps for almost three years.


If OLC generating and search are implemented at the OSM, it would become 
sort of an universal open source standard.


As for using it in tags, if one clicks at another part of the same 
building the OLC code would be different. And what if one wants to have 
a constant legal address?




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 10.08.18 20:09, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

this only if you see it as location information, not if it is used as an 
address (the location where to go to, see the example of the long driveway 
above)

Cheers,
Martin
___

There could be a psychological aspect to it too. Up to 40% of some 
cities are constructed without any planning permission meaning that 
theoretically these buildings are "illegal".


These people could not add addr:street= and addr:housenumber= for their 
houses at the OSM map for years, and all of a sudden they can add an 
address. They can have a true modern address, which is probably even 
better than a legacy system offers, which based on the laws of nature.


brgds

O.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 10.08.18 00:13, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM wrote:


This is really cool to hear!

I am a big fan of OLC / Pluse Codes

I passed this thread on to the folks at Google Zurich who created it
originally, not sure if they still work there or not, we last chatted
in 2016, but I am sure they will be glad to stop in and answer
questions if I can raise them.

Cheers
blake

___

I read here https://plus.codes/developers that they work on 
implementations in other languages.


On the practical side, I know that a new driver at a delivery service 
may spend in some cases up to three - four hours to deliver one Internet 
order in a city (I had some interviews with delivery drivers). There are 
new apartment buildings which are not yet in navigators, some houses are 
several hundred meters long [1], etc.


This excessive senseless driving is not only expensive but also harms 
environment. I think it makes sense to implement the OLC as a practical 
attempt to improve the archaic (or absent) street-name & house-number 
address system, to start people realizing that there is a way now to 
specify the exact location over email and over telephone unequivocally, 
so no waste of time and fuel is necessary anymore.


Besides, I assume it was done already technically, - there is the pull 
request already.


About 50% of all traffic is one or another kind of delivery. The OLC may 
improve situation with traffic jams and CO2 pollution, which concerns 
all. If people start using the OLC massively, there will be, most 
probably, further attempts to improve it since it is Open Source.


[1] https://osm.org/go/0iaifBuGU--?m=

Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Problem on tiles update

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

It looks like there is an issue with rendering in France:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Platform_Status
"rendering paused on some servers due to a bug in tile expiry 
(resolution pending)" (Roubaix, FR)

brgds
O.

On 07.08.18 21:47, Jérôme Seigneuret wrote:

Hi,

I have update multiple object on Lunel, France but I can't see my 
modification on openstreetmap.org . Delay to 
refresh features have been changed? Or there is problem on tiles 
refreshing.


Jérôme


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Paper/Article about stagnation in OSM

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Yes, I agree, - Share/Short Link is a great feature. I assume it is kind 
of an implementation of Geohash [1]. Both the Geohash and the 3-Words 
transmit just a location, the same as coordinates. 3-Words could be at 
least in Cyrillic letters.


If I point just to a location of an apartment or an office, it could be 
in fact several apartments or offices in a multilevel building. With 
modern databases it could be possible to include some additional textual 
information to make it a real address for many people.


I like Geohash approach more than 3-Words, besides it is in public 
domain. In principle it should be possible to transliterate the geohash 
on the fly by a program into Cyrillic or other scripts' letters. So it 
could be transmitted via telephone; there is a phonetic alphabet for 
Cyrillic letters too.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geohash
[2] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Фонетический_алфавит

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 04.08.18 10:40, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski wrote:


Then when we call in browser something like:
osm.org/?address=hj3u878s  




This is already on website and available at "share - short link": 
https://osm.org/go/0lrHA3xsZ


--
Darafei Praliaskouski
Support me: http://patreon.com/komzpa



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Why the HOT obsession with low quality buildings in Africa ?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 7/4/2018 2:58 PM, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:

On Wed, July 4, 2018 1:47 pm, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

Sometimes I myself cannot recognize on a satellite image what kind of
building it is, - a warehouse, a cowshed, a factory, etc., or how many
levels it has got. I have to look at its shadow, surroundings, roof
surface, to make a guess.

Imagery interpretation is artful indeed - it takes practice to train the
eye, but then recognizing features from elusive hints, such as a tall
structure from its shadow, becomes reflex.

This is an area where having travelled in the target area helps a lot -
with nothing but the imagery I can with near-certainty recognize most
Senegalese schools... But I'm entirely lost trying to do the same in
neighbouring Guinea !

I saw recently a film "Nord Nord Mord" [1]. In this film there is an 
ultra-modern luxury house which costs twenty million euros (actually 
almost the whole film is sort of about it). But the building has got a 
traditional thatched roof made from reeds. You can see the house and the 
roof already at 1:20 (1 minute 20 seconds) of the video.


I tried to find a similar house on the satellite imagery of Northern 
Germany but for some reason I could not find a single one. Perhaps, they 
are rare, or blend into vegetation, or do not look like houses from above.


[1] 
https://www.zdf.de/filme/der-fernsehfilm-der-woche/nord-nord-mord-124.html


Best regards,

O.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Why the HOT obsession with low quality buildings in Africa ?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I do not think that in ten years automated image recognition will be 
capable to map buildings correctly. I remember that still in 70s I read 
that computer translation will replace human translators. However, half 
a century later it is still humans who translate texts, though with the 
assistance of specialized computer programs.


Sometimes I myself cannot recognize on a satellite image what kind of 
building it is, - a warehouse, a cowshed, a factory, etc., or how many 
levels it has got. I have to look at its shadow, surroundings, roof 
surface, to make a guess. I wish in future it would be possible to 
switch in an editor from the satellite imagery to the aerial low 
altitude oblique image to see a building from a different angle.


I do some experiments in this field. For example, recently I filmed this 
historical fort 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5807132#map=18/46.50897/6.07790 
from the air at low altitude from different angles. These aerial images 
can be accessed from the map in two clicks at the fort's commons category:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Fort_du_Risoux

If in future the cost of SSDs capacity drops further, perhaps it would 
be possible to store such oblique aerial images at the map (and editor) 
itself as an addition to the major satellite imagery. And then it will 
be obvious and indisputable at what kind of structure we are looking 
vertically from the space. One such 4K aerial image covers at least 4 
hectares (the approximate area of this fort).


With best regards,
Oleksiy


On 7/4/2018 10:16 AM, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:

...
I am convinced that the immense majority of those buildings will never be
corrected. In ten years, we can expect massive campaigns of automated
image recognition to produce new building layers - but even then the
extensive conflation will be an horribly tedious job.
...




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Please, correct the link in my previous message:
http://ausleuchtung.ch/travel_pack/?lat=46.3561695279802=2.5460815429687504=12=10=aeroway=aerodrome=0

On 20.06.18 18:02, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
I found a small airfield close to Boussac with this tool: 
http://ausleuchtung.ch.local/travel_pack/?lat=46.3561695279802=2.5460815429687504=12=10=aeroway=aerodrome=0


At this airfield there is an air-club: 
https://www.facebook.com/Les-Ailes-Montlu%C3%A7onnaises-273169482716262/


If it is another Boussac (there are several in  France) just use this 
tool to find a small airfield with an air-club at it. Then you may try 
to write to people, to the light aircraft pilots of an air-club, 
asking them the question.


These people may know as their look very attentively at the ground 
below when they fly for numerous reasons. The hard part could be to 
convince them to assist, for this you may try to explain them why you 
need this info.


brgds
O.



On 20.06.18 17:35, Jeroen Baten wrote:

That is an excellent idea! How do I find somebody with some areal
experience around Boussac?

Op 20-06-18 om 16:00 schreef Oleksiy Muzalyev:

I do not know how to do it via query. In fact, I think it would be a
hard problem.

However, since it is 10 minutes from a city a medical helicopter pilot
or a recreational light aircraft pilot may recognize it. People are 
very
good at recognizing patterns. I heard the SNCF, the French railway, 
uses

RPAS to survey its network [1].

For example, I think I could probably recognize an area around a town
where I live from an aerial image, since being an amateur RPAS pilot I
saw it quite a lot from the air.

[1] 
https://www.sncf-reseau.fr/en/about/strategy/drones-serving-industry


brgds
O.

On 20.06.18 15:26, Jeroen Baten wrote:

Correct, but they are talking in the FAQ about reuse of the data on
which Google has a license.

That is different from getting a photo of google maps attached in an
email.

It is just a different kind of copyright.

Still, it seems nobody can give me a hint/direction how to solve my
problem.

Regards,
Jeroen

Op 20-06-18 om 15:22 schreef Milo van der Linden:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_don.27t_you_just_use_Google_Maps.2Fwhoever_for_your_data.3F 




2018-06-20 15:21 GMT+02:00 Milo van der Linden :

Still. I strongly advice you not to use it.

2018-06-20 15:13 GMT+02:00 Jeroen Baten :

I did not make it. Some French estate agent did :-).


Op 20-06-18 om 15:00 schreef Milo van der Linden:

Screenshots from google maps infringe copyright. I advice oyu not
to use it.

2018-06-19 10:43 GMT+02:00 Jeroen Baten :

Nope, unfortunately it is clearly a screenshot taken from google
maps.

Op 19-06-18 om 10:43 schreef Tim Frey:

Hi Jeroen,

when it was taken on a mobile, then you have a high likelihood
that the picture has exif geo tags...
Do you think that this is the case?

Best
Tim


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jeroen Baten 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Juni 2018 10:35
An: talk@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

Hi,

This is a newbie question:
so I have an aerial photo of a part of central France but I
don't know the exact location.
I know it is max 10 minutes from a city.
I want to find the place on the map.
My photo shows two roads in an angle.
Is there a way I can use to locate where this is?
Some sort of low level GIS query maybe?

Looking forward to your answers.

Kind regards,
Jeroen Baten



--
Jeroen Baten  | EMAIL : jba...@i2rs.nl
     _  __  | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
    |  )|_)(_   | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
   _|_/_| \__)  | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK,
Culemborg, the
Netherlands

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



--
Jeroen Baten  | EMAIL :  jba...@i2rs.nl
     _  __  | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
    |  )|_)(_   | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
   _|_/_| \__)  | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK,
Culemborg, the
Netherlands


--
Milo van der Linden
web: dogodigi
tel: +31-6-16598808





___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I found a small airfield close to Boussac with this tool: 
http://ausleuchtung.ch.local/travel_pack/?lat=46.3561695279802=2.5460815429687504=12=10=aeroway=aerodrome=0


At this airfield there is an air-club: 
https://www.facebook.com/Les-Ailes-Montlu%C3%A7onnaises-273169482716262/


If it is another Boussac (there are several in  France) just use this 
tool to find a small airfield with an air-club at it. Then you may try 
to write to people, to the light aircraft pilots of an air-club, asking 
them the question.


These people may know as their look very attentively at the ground below 
when they fly for numerous reasons. The hard part could be to convince 
them to assist, for this you may try to explain them why you need this info.


brgds
O.



On 20.06.18 17:35, Jeroen Baten wrote:

That is an excellent idea! How do I find somebody with some areal
experience around Boussac?

Op 20-06-18 om 16:00 schreef Oleksiy Muzalyev:

I do not know how to do it via query. In fact, I think it would be a
hard problem.

However, since it is 10 minutes from a city a medical helicopter pilot
or a recreational light aircraft pilot may recognize it. People are very
good at recognizing patterns. I heard the SNCF, the French railway, uses
RPAS to survey its network [1].

For example, I think I could probably recognize an area around a town
where I live from an aerial image, since being an amateur RPAS pilot I
saw it quite a lot from the air.

[1] https://www.sncf-reseau.fr/en/about/strategy/drones-serving-industry

brgds
O.

On 20.06.18 15:26, Jeroen Baten wrote:

Correct, but they are talking in the FAQ about reuse of the data on
which Google has a license.

That is different from getting a photo of google maps attached in an
email.

It is just a different kind of copyright.

Still, it seems nobody can give me a hint/direction how to solve my
problem.

Regards,
Jeroen

Op 20-06-18 om 15:22 schreef Milo van der Linden:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_don.27t_you_just_use_Google_Maps.2Fwhoever_for_your_data.3F


2018-06-20 15:21 GMT+02:00 Milo van der Linden :

Still. I strongly advice you not to use it.

2018-06-20 15:13 GMT+02:00 Jeroen Baten :

I did not make it. Some French estate agent did :-).


Op 20-06-18 om 15:00 schreef Milo van der Linden:

Screenshots from google maps infringe copyright. I advice oyu not
to use it.

2018-06-19 10:43 GMT+02:00 Jeroen Baten :

Nope, unfortunately it is clearly a screenshot taken from google
maps.

Op 19-06-18 om 10:43 schreef Tim Frey:

Hi Jeroen,

when it was taken on a mobile, then you have a high likelihood
that the picture has exif geo tags...
Do you think that this is the case?

Best
Tim


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jeroen Baten 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Juni 2018 10:35
An: talk@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

Hi,

This is a newbie question:
so I have an aerial photo of a part of central France but I
don't know the exact location.
I know it is max 10 minutes from a city.
I want to find the place on the map.
My photo shows two roads in an angle.
Is there a way I can use to locate where this is?
Some sort of low level GIS query maybe?

Looking forward to your answers.

Kind regards,
Jeroen Baten



--
Jeroen Baten  | EMAIL :  jba...@i2rs.nl
     _  __  | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
    |  )|_)(_   | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
   _|_/_| \__)  | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK,
Culemborg, the
Netherlands

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



--
Jeroen Baten  | EMAIL :  jba...@i2rs.nl
     _  __  | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
    |  )|_)(_   | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
   _|_/_| \__)  | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK,
Culemborg, the
Netherlands


--
Milo van der Linden
web: dogodigi
tel: +31-6-16598808





___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I do not know how to do it via query. In fact, I think it would be a 
hard problem.


However, since it is 10 minutes from a city a medical helicopter pilot 
or a recreational light aircraft pilot may recognize it. People are very 
good at recognizing patterns. I heard the SNCF, the French railway, uses 
RPAS to survey its network [1].


For example, I think I could probably recognize an area around a town 
where I live from an aerial image, since being an amateur RPAS pilot I 
saw it quite a lot from the air.


[1] https://www.sncf-reseau.fr/en/about/strategy/drones-serving-industry

brgds
O.

On 20.06.18 15:26, Jeroen Baten wrote:

Correct, but they are talking in the FAQ about reuse of the data on
which Google has a license.

That is different from getting a photo of google maps attached in an email.

It is just a different kind of copyright.

Still, it seems nobody can give me a hint/direction how to solve my problem.

Regards,
Jeroen

Op 20-06-18 om 15:22 schreef Milo van der Linden:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_don.27t_you_just_use_Google_Maps.2Fwhoever_for_your_data.3F

2018-06-20 15:21 GMT+02:00 Milo van der Linden :

Still. I strongly advice you not to use it.

2018-06-20 15:13 GMT+02:00 Jeroen Baten :

I did not make it. Some French estate agent did :-).


Op 20-06-18 om 15:00 schreef Milo van der Linden:

Screenshots from google maps infringe copyright. I advice oyu not to use it.

2018-06-19 10:43 GMT+02:00 Jeroen Baten :

Nope, unfortunately it is clearly a screenshot taken from google maps.

Op 19-06-18 om 10:43 schreef Tim Frey:

Hi Jeroen,

when it was taken on a mobile, then you have a high likelihood that the picture 
has exif geo tags...
Do you think that this is the case?

Best
Tim


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jeroen Baten 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Juni 2018 10:35
An: talk@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

Hi,

This is a newbie question:
so I have an aerial photo of a part of central France but I don't know the 
exact location.
I know it is max 10 minutes from a city.
I want to find the place on the map.
My photo shows two roads in an angle.
Is there a way I can use to locate where this is?
Some sort of low level GIS query maybe?

Looking forward to your answers.

Kind regards,
Jeroen Baten



--
Jeroen Baten  | EMAIL :  jba...@i2rs.nl
    _  __  | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
   |  )|_)(_   | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
  _|_/_| \__)  | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK, Culemborg, the
Netherlands

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




--
Jeroen Baten  | EMAIL :  jba...@i2rs.nl
    _  __  | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
   |  )|_)(_   | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
  _|_/_| \__)  | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK, Culemborg, the
Netherlands



--
Milo van der Linden
web: dogodigi
tel: +31-6-16598808






___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Florian,

Here is the photo [1] of my DIY Tiny Trainer RC airplane, which I built 
from the FliteTest speed build kit [2]. This is the 4 channel plane 
(ailerons, elevator, rudder, throttle). It flies surprisingly well. 
Actually, it can even perform basic aerobatics.


At the store page there is a video which shows detailed build. Josh 
Bixler explains in this video each step very well.


It took me about 4 hours to build it (mostly watching video).  The only 
special equipment required is the z-bend pliers, easily available at any 
RC shop. Building involves the usage of the hot glue gun and cutter 
knife (which could be extremely dangerous if not used correctly).


These speed kits are a good way to learn the grand ideas and detailed 
technics of building an aircraft, especially for someone who never built 
one. After building from a speed build kit it would be much easier to 
build from scratch.


The airframe itself costs 25.- USD, and the power-pack (engine, ESC, 4 
servos, propeller, cables) pack costs 52 USD. The power-pack can be 
later reused for other projects.


As for a newbie to learn piloting without an autopilot I would recommend 
the RealFlight simulator [3]. It is also quite helpful for advanced 
pilots to learn maneuvers which in the physical world may inadvertently 
destroy an expensive aircraft.


[1] 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-yo05crBfbd64wYGhkJEgeWtjPVPV-GX/view?usp=sharing

[2] https://store.flitetest.com/mighty-mini-tiny-trainer-speed-build-kit/
[3] https://www.realflight.com/

With best regards,
O.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Florian,

The DIY RC aircraft approach has got some other advantages, not only the 
initial cost: the plane can be easily repaired, parts may be reused for 
another project, one can build a airplane capable to carry any 
equipment, etc. Besides, if one learns to build an airplane one can 
build about anything.


The article, which you mention, describes a plane of the so called 
pusher configuration [1], with a propeller behind. This configuration 
has got some advantages, especially for the FPV (first person view) 
flight. However, there is a serious disadvantage notably for mapping. 
The pusher configuration is very noisy because a pusher prop is working 
in a disturbed airflow, causing increased vibration and noise. For 
mapping urban areas it is very significant


While with the tractor configuration [2] the propeller works in an 
undisturbed air. A tractor electric RPAS airplane can be almost silent. 
The disadvantage of a tractor is that the rotating propeller somewhat 
obstructs the FPV camera view. After some time it becomes annoying.


I plan to build a twin engine RC airplane [3] to see if the advantage of 
being silent remains. If it does, then it would be good both for FPV and 
mapping.


I would also like to add a general remark that an airplane has got one 
(or two) engines, but the quad-copter has got four. Besides, a plane can 
glide. It explains why a fix-wing has better endurance and range than a 
multi-rotor.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusher_configuration
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractor_configuration
[3] https://store.flitetest.com/ft-cruiser-speed-build-kit/

With best regards,
O.

On 5/31/2018 6:48 PM, Florian Lohoff wrote:

Hi,
is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
e.g. Aerial imaging?

I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee
and the like.

As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.

Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc


Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
camera but its a start.

https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/


For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.

Flo


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 5/10/2018 5:43 PM, Jo wrote:

Marc,

I probably shouldn't have mentioned Switzerland. I thought it was 
"nicely" divided into clear language regions, but apparently not. My 
only experience with it was that in the part neighboring Germany they 
spoke something that resembled German somewhat, but once we passed the 
Sankth-Gottard pass, everyone spoke Italian (and hardly any German).


In Belgium, at least, it's completely defined in what language 
official signs should be written in, in each of the regions.


In most parts of the world, I think this is not the case, which makes 
it hard to set this default_language tag, without mentioning all the 
'possible' ones. I guess the best we can achieve is cover the majority 
and then use name:language for the exceptions?


Jo
In towns where there are French, German and Italian linguistic 
communities the signs may be written in two (or three) languages 
simultaneously. Here is, for example, photo of the train stationat the 
town of Sierre in the canton Valais: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sierre/Siders_train_station#/media/File:Sierre-Siders_train_station-2.jpg


I've made this photo in December 2016. The name of the town on the sign 
is written as: Sierre/Siders. In French and Italian languages it is 
written the same: Sierre, in German it is: Siders ( 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siders ).


It is the common practice. Here is, as another example, a photo of some 
supermarkets products, which I just shot: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=18tIzVjiriyHAlDKnRa8veLHaE8TETbxR . One 
can see that the product title is in three languages: German, French ad 
Italian. And it is not only the title, but also a description, a 
preparation recipe, etc., all are in three languages. It is very 
convenient for someone who studies these languages.


Indeed, Swiss German pronunciation differs from the Standard German 
significantly, but it is written practically the same as the Standard 
German. The language in the northern Belgium is called Flemish. Both 
Dutch and Flemish are part of the Dutch Language Union, they both are 
part of the same language group. But I do not know if there are 
significant differences in writing, i.e in orthography.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

This was exactly my point. That it is a sensitive topic. And it may be 
unclear to people who live in a national state with a single official 
language.
That is why I provided the texts of articles, to illustrate that there 
is a multi-language historical equilibrium reflected it the official 
documents.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 10.05.18 11:35, Marc Gemis wrote:

Don't you think that Belgians like Jo and the rest of the Belgian
community know best what the default language is in a certain area ?
This can be a pretty sensitive topic, which is not always easy to
understand by outsiders. So please let the Belgian community decide
the default language without pointing us to our constitution.


regards

m. (from Belgium)


p.s. Besides those areas you mention we also have Municipalities with
facilities [1]


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipalities_with_language_facilities

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Oleksiy Muzalyev
<oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote:

On 09.05.18 07:46, Jo wrote:

The whole country has 3 official languages. In the north nl is the
official language, in the south fr. And a small area in the east is de.
Brussels is officially bilingual. Hence all names there will be a
combination of fr - nl.

Normally I would expect Belgium to not have default_language set. You may
have to keep a list of countries where it only makes sense to look at the
next smaller geographic regions.

I expect the same goes for Switzerland (whole country 3-4 official
languages, but at the next geographic level it is clear which language is
spoken/official for which region).

I think in most multilingual countries the regions are not so clearly
defined.

Jo


Hello Jo and Yuri,

Here is the text of the article 4 of the Belgian constitution [1]

"Article 4
Belgium comprises four linguistic regions: the Dutch-speaking region, the
French-
speaking region, the bilingual region of Brussels-Capital and the
German-speaking region.
Each municipality of the Kingdom forms part of one of these linguistic
regions."

In the Swiss constitution [2] it is stated directly that there are four
national languages. It is also the article 4:

"Art. 4 National languages
The National Languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh."

It is not a light question, - which language is the default one for these
countries. In my opinion, following these official texts is the best
solution.

[1]
https://www.dekamer.be/kvvcr/pdf_sections/publications/constitution/GrondwetUK.pdf
[2]
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/index.html#a4

Best regards,
Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 09.05.18 07:46, Jo wrote:
The whole country has 3 official languages. In the north nl is the 
official language, in the south fr. And a small area in the east is 
de. Brussels is officially bilingual. Hence all names there will be a 
combination of fr - nl.


Normally I would expect Belgium to not have default_language set. You 
may have to keep a list of countries where it only makes sense to look 
at the next smaller geographic regions.


I expect the same goes for Switzerland (whole country 3-4 official 
languages, but at the next geographic level it is clear which language 
is spoken/official for which region).


I think in most multilingual countries the regions are not so clearly 
defined.


Jo


Hello Jo and Yuri,

Here is the text of the article 4 of the Belgian constitution [1]

"Article 4
Belgium comprises four linguistic regions: the Dutch-speaking region, 
the French-
speaking region, the bilingual region of Brussels-Capital and the 
German-speaking region.
Each municipality of the Kingdom forms part of one of these linguistic 
regions."


In the Swiss constitution [2] it is stated directly that there are four 
national languages. It is also the article 4:


"Art. 4 National languages
The National Languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh."

It is not a light question, - which language is the default one for 
these countries. In my opinion, following these official texts is the 
best solution.


[1] 
https://www.dekamer.be/kvvcr/pdf_sections/publications/constitution/GrondwetUK.pdf
[2] 
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/index.html#a4


Best regards,
Oleksiy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

From my modest RPAS pilot experience, I can tell that during a flight 
planning, while using different sources: maps, satellite images, GPS 
traces, Wikimedia images, videos, etc. I kind of inadvertently build in 
my head a 3D model of an area, paying attention to distinctive 
landmarks, and especially to a point of landing.


In this particular case, I could map the control tower also only after I 
saw videos, aerial and ground photos, satellite images of the 
Haßfurt-Schweinfurt airport. After the tower, a major landmark, is on 
the map, here it is, I have got the 3D model.


Human brain works in 2D, that is why it takes years and years to train a 
good pilot. The professional term for a flight is: jump. Aircraft does 
not fly like a bird, it has got limitations of a jump (END - endurance, 
EET - estimated elapse time, ALT - alternate aerodrome, flight plan, 
etc.). A pilot error is not always caused by high spirits or illness, 
sometimes it is a result of objective limitations of human physiology. 
That is why any flight has got a flight planning phase.


By the way, if a smartphone battery has drained, if "Find My Phone" 
can’t locate the device, the last known location is displayed on a map.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 11.04.18 12:26, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


agreed, I would also believe that the military _also_ might look at 
OSM (every additional source is always useful), but very likely not 
for flying aircraft, still, I don't believe there is any correlation 
whatsoever between a military helicopter touching an airport control 
tower at daytime and good weather conditions, and this tower mapped in 
OSM or not. And even if it would have been a thunderstorm and foggy 
and night time, there wouldn't be any correlation between the accident 
and OSM (besides that you became aware of the tower and mapped it 
because of the news). Usually accidents like this happen because of 
high spirits or someone having an heart attack or similar.


On a sidenote, I think you overestimate the technology to find your 
smartphone, you would very likely not find it in the ocean or in a 
river or lake, or in a cave, or after some hours when the battery has 
drained, or in an area without cellphone or wireless reception, or if 
it was inside a shielding containment, etc. ;-)


Cheers,
Martin



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Martin,

The OSM map is being used in a professional context on transportation. 
For example, very efficient Stockholm public transport system map: 
https://sl.se/en/ . I used this website myself while staying in 
Stockholm. I had to visit quite a few cities, but I never saw anything 
even remotely close by usefulness and efficiency to Stockholm public 
transport. Basically, one builds his/her life around this map over-there.


As for the military, I saw a documentary about a modern military system, 
and there was on display of this system unmistakeably the OSM map.


We tend to underestimate the technology available on our smartphones 
(including the OSM based maps). For example, I could find my lost 
smartphone even in another city in minutes, but some lost planes, 
helicopters, or RPAS are being searched for months or even years.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 11.04.18 10:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 11. Apr 2018, at 09:31, Oleksiy Muzalyev <oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote:

I realize that the OSM map is not used by airmen, at least not officially.


even less as this was not a hobbyist but a military helicopter

Cheers,
Martin




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I worked for ten years as a GOO (ground operations) at a major airline. 
I realize that the OSM map is not used by airmen, at least not officially.


I am a certified RPAS (remotely piloted aircraft system) pilot. While 
planning a flight at a certain place I look at the official special maps 
(for example RPAS restrictions map for CH [1]). But, since no map is 
perfect, I look also at the OSM map, different satellite imagery, Google 
map, Wikimedia ground and aerial images of a place, if existing, Youtube 
videos, etc. to understand what is expecting me at this place.


It is even more complicated for helicopter pilots, since risk and 
responsibility are incomparably higher. It is not impossible that an 
airman has got a smartphone in his pocket with map apps, and during long 
autopilot flight has a look at a place where he has to land, which is 
the most complex part of a flight.


Unfortunately, helicopter wire and obstacle strikes happen quite often, 
and the stats are nearly evenly split between day and nighttime events. 
86% of the fatal accidents occur in clear weather with good visibility [2].


My point is that it would at least not harm if towers, not only control 
towers, but communication, observation towers, and other tall structures 
are present on a map with an icon. It would be useful for everyone, 
since these landmarks are visible from far away at day and night.


[1] 
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=aviation=de=ch.swisstopo.pixelkarte-grau=ch.bazl.einschraenkungen-drohnen_opacity=0.6=1379,2863=2635778.01=1187912.46=2
[2] 
http://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/how-avoid-helicopter-wire-strikes


With best regards,
Oleksiy

On 11.04.18 03:21, Jack Armstrong dan...@sprynet.com wrote:

Are you saying you think an aviation accident could have been avoided if OSM 
data was better? I've been an air traffic controller for 38 years. Aviation 
hazards, such as towers at airports, are well charted on navigational charts 
and airport diagrams which pilots are required to use. A pilot would never use 
OSM as a means of avoiding ground hazards at an airport. Besides, this 
particular accident happened at 10:00 A.M. local time, meaning it was daylight. 
The vast majority of aviation accidents are the result of pilot error. If a 
helicopter pilot allows his rotor blades to collide with a clearly visible 
object, that is negligence on the captain's part.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Thank you, Jo. It was a typing error. It is definitively debris.

With best regards,
Oleksiy

On 11.04.18 08:27, Jo wrote:

derbies -> debris

Oleksiy's attention was drawn to that airport because of the tragic 
fatality. He noticed the tower was not mapped, so he mapped it.


Cheers,

Jo

2018-04-11 8:17 GMT+02:00 Milo van der Linden <m...@dogodigi.net 
<mailto:m...@dogodigi.net>>:


Dear Armstrong, please be aware that Oleksiy is no native english
speaker. In his culture and language that is probably not what he
is saying.

Kind regards,

Milo van der Linden

On April 11, 2018 3:21:17 AM GMT+02:00, "Jack Armstrong
dan...@sprynet.com <mailto:dan...@sprynet.com>"
<jacknst...@sprynet.com <mailto:jacknst...@sprynet.com>> wrote:

Are you saying you think an aviation accident could have been
avoided if OSM data was better? I've been an air traffic
controller for 38 years. Aviation hazards, such as towers at
airports, are well charted on navigational charts and airport
diagrams which pilots are required to use. A pilot would never
use OSM as a means of avoiding ground hazards at an airport.
Besides, this particular accident happened at 10:00 A.M. local
time, meaning it was daylight. The vast majority of aviation
accidents are the result of pilot error. If a helicopter pilot
allows his rotor blades to collide with a clearly visible
object, that is negligence on the captain's part.
-----Original Message-

From: Oleksiy Muzalyev <oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>> Sent: Apr 10, 2018
3:44 PM To: Talk Openstreetmap <talk@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>> Subject: [OSM-talk]
today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria Good
evening, There was an helicopter accident at the airport
Flugplatz Haßfurt-Schweinfurt. One man from the ground
staff was killed by derbies when helicopter's propeller
blades touched the control tower. On the news video [1]
and on the aerial image of the airport [2] it is clearly
visible that the tower building is not in the same row
with other buildings, it is a bit outstanding. This tower
was not mapped neither on the Google maps, nor on the OSM.
I mapped it by now on the OSM:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/50.01720/10.52705
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/50.01720/10.52705>
with the tag: tower:type=aircraft_control, which has got a
nice map icon. In general, towers, not only
aircraft_control, but also communication, and others, are
well visible even from far away, and could serve as good
landmarks. That is why it makes sense to map towers. [1]

https://rtlnext.rtl.de/cms/bundeswehr-hubschrauber-rammt-tower-flughafenmitarbeiter-von-truemmern-erschlagen-4148088.html

<https://rtlnext.rtl.de/cms/bundeswehr-hubschrauber-rammt-tower-flughafenmitarbeiter-von-truemmern-erschlagen-4148088.html>
[2]

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt-Schweinfurt#/media/File:Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt_Schweinfurt.jpg

<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt-Schweinfurt#/media/File:Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt_Schweinfurt.jpg>
With best regards, Oleksiy


talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk> 



talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk>


-- 
Verstuurd vanaf mijn mobiel. Fouten voorbehouden.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk>




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Good evening,

There was an helicopter accident at the airport Flugplatz 
Haßfurt-Schweinfurt. One man from the ground staff was killed by derbies 
when helicopter's propeller blades touched the control tower.


On the news video [1] and on the aerial image of the airport [2] it is 
clearly visible that the tower building is not in the same row with 
other buildings, it is a bit outstanding.


This tower was not mapped neither on the Google maps, nor on the OSM. I 
mapped it by now on the OSM: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/50.01720/10.52705 with the tag: 
tower:type=aircraft_control, which has got a nice map icon.


In general, towers, not only aircraft_control, but also communication, 
and others, are well visible even from far away, and could serve as good 
landmarks. That is why it makes sense to map towers.


[1] 
https://rtlnext.rtl.de/cms/bundeswehr-hubschrauber-rammt-tower-flughafenmitarbeiter-von-truemmern-erschlagen-4148088.html


[2] 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt-Schweinfurt#/media/File:Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt_Schweinfurt.jpg


With best regards,

Oleksiy



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Recent geotagged additions to Wikidata

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Dear Andy,

Thank you for sharing this information.

I work on adding Wikidata IDs to objects in OSM. I also work on Wikidata 
items themselves.


The nature of Wikidata changes. We can make now Wikidata items useful 
for the OSM mapping. For example, I am not experienced in mapping of 
historical forts. However with the video-camera DJI Osmo and ultra-light 
quad-copter DJI Mavic Air I could film a short video of the fort, 
publish it in its Wikimedia category, and add the value "video" to its 
Wikidata item. This equipment is so portable that it fits in a small 
backpack, and at the same time it is capable to produce 4K mechanically 
stabilized ground and aerial footage.


Here is an example, - the Fort l'Écluse on the map:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5498205

its wikidata item with video value:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3078389

and 5 minutes 4K ground and aerial film of this fort, which I recorded 
last weekend:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fort_l%27%C3%89cluse.webm

The idea is to produce mini-documentaries for OSM objects, which could 
be useful for mappers too, as an addition to existing satellite imagery 
and still photos. This is work in progress. Besides, technology changes 
so fast. I still remember how we had to use kites and water rockets for 
aerial photography (videography was practically impossible due to 
vibration).


With best regards,
Oleksiy

On 06/04/2018 13:50, Andy Mabbett wrote:

Those of you who work on adding Wikidata IDs to objects in OSM may be
interested in this bog post:

https://addshore.com/2018/04/wikidata-map-march-2018/

which highlights (items with) coordinates added to Wikidata in teh
last four months - so lots of new IDs that can be added to OSM.

It anlayses several "hotspots", the reasons for which are not yet clear.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] "The Future of Free and Open-Source Maps" Slashdot.org , Saturday February 17, 2018

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

This article is on the front page of the Slashdot today:

Fri 16 February 2018 "Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious Trouble"

https://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2018/02/16/osm-is-in-trouble/


"The Future of Free and Open-Source Maps"

https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/02/16/2216228/the-future-of-free-and-open-source-maps


I actually read the article, and though it has got insightful 
information and interesting ideas, I have doubts about some suggestions.


For instance, reviews. I hope it will not come to what there is at some 
commercial maps, when one adds say a building and then has to wait for a 
month that an almighty moderator approves it, so that it appears on the map.


I also skeptical of massive imports from governments' databases. These 
databases were created in the last century, with outdated tools, 
sometimes by disinterested underpaid clerks, probably in a climate of 
secrecy of that era. And such an import may replace the quality data 
from modern satellite imagery, GPS traces, surveys, etc.


Best regards,

O.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data, how can we contribute to keep it to a reasonable size?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 21.01.18 10:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


On 21. Jan 2018, at 09:21, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
<oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch <mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>> wrote:


For example, Intel i7-8700K 3.7 GHz 8th generation processor consumes 
95 W [2], add to this the fans, hard disks, etc., it comes to 400 W 
power supply unit. 


For comparison, the Raspeberry Pi 3 single-board computer requires 
only 10 W power supply [4], 40 times less.



10W? Look at this baby, the whole system is running on solar power and 
doesn’t even need external power sources: 
https://www.galeria-kaufhof.de/p/casio-taschenrechner-fx-85ms/1002764080


Pricing is also very accessible.

Seriously, you can’t compare a high end CPU with a raspberry pi 
looking only at the power consumption ;-)



cheers,
Martin


Modern motherboards are capable to reduce the CPU power consumption to 
12 W [1], when there are no computation intensive tasks. So improving 
data quality at the source would benefit the high end systems too.


[1] https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/PRIME-Z270-A/ (Energy efficient 
design)


Best regards,

Oleksiy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data, how can we contribute to keep it to a reasonable size?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 19.01.18 01:53, Paul Norman wrote:
Speaking as a developer and frequent consumer of OSM data, don't do 
any of these things to save space.


Instead, worry about ease of editing. If a few meter long way has 
hundreds of nodes, that's a problem for editing, and should be fixed; 
a mass of unnecessary import-sourced tags confuses people, don't use 
them; and overlapping landuse with lots of multipolygons is difficult 
to edit, so should be avoided. Following these behaviors will slightly 
reduce data size, but the point is keeping the map maintainable.


It's also difficult to say what will affect size without a detailed 
understanding of the format and how it's processed. Size is also not 
the only indicator of time to process - for various reasons, relations 
are much slower to work with than ways with most data consumption 
workflows.


I've met multipolygons which are hard to understand. It is similar here 
with the programming code, it should be first of all readable, otherwise 
if the developer disappears due to a bus factor [1], it would be hard to 
maintain.


Certainly, throwing hardware at the problem is a perfectly respectable 
solution. However, if we look at the power consumption of modern 
processors it ceases to look perfect. For example, Intel i7-8700K 3.7 
GHz 8th generation processor consumes 95 W [2], add to this the fans, 
hard disks, etc., it comes to 400 W power supply unit. And it did not 
change from, for instance, 4th generation processors, which also had 
power consumption of 60 - 90 W [3].


For comparison, the Raspeberry Pi 3 single-board computer requires only 
10 W power supply [4], 40 times less. And this single-board computer 
with the Raspbian Lite GUI-less OS is still capable to run an Apache2 & 
database web-server for a simple site with a light traffic.


So keeping the map maintainable, correcting polygon or tagging errors, 
avoiding unnecessary import-sourced tags and nodes functions as a 
precalculation, which is done only once and by this reduces waste 
multiple times.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor

[2] https://www.brack.ch/intel-cpu-core-i7-8700k-3-616011

[3] https://www.brack.ch/intel-cpu-core-i7-4790k-4-307846

[4] https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-3-model-b/

Best regards,

Oleksiy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data, how can we contribute to keep it to a reasonable size?

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 18.01.2018 20:07, Mark Wagner wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:44:47 +0100
Oleksiy Muzalyev <oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote:


Imre,

It is very good and surprising idea.

I discovered on the page "Error categories" a tool
https://www.keepright.at/ with the help of which I found already
dozens obviously misspelled tags. It functions quite intuitively,
just select "misspelled tags" check box and move the map to an area
of interest.

But make sure they're really misspelled.  I recently saw a change that
fixed a dozen instances where the key "brand" was misspelled as "band"
-- except that one of the "band" tags was correct, describing the fact
that a radio antenna operated in the two-meter band.

Indeed, I see already that there could be from time to time 
false-positives. It makes sense to open a node in a separate browser tab 
and to check a tag info at the OSM wiki before correction.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk