subject:"Re\: \[AFMUG\] OT Political"

I hate partisan politics.  
I have some litmus issues:

I want to be able to buy a gun if I want.
I don’t think it is OK to kill a late term baby for convenience.
I am OK with guest workers, the more the merrier.  
I am OK with using public lands to bury fiber and drill oil wells.  

I am not OK with defunding police, or being called a racist just because of the 
level of my melanin.  

People have told me I am a libertarian.  Perhaps.  

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 12:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

As an FYI, I consider myself politically independent. Over my lifetime, I have 
voted Republican more often than Democratic for president. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:28 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

  There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending 
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

  The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that 
would allow them to be reunited: 
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

  I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what 
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps he 
is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I guess that 
is a more favorable way to look at it.

  P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to 
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under oath). 
If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind, I will dig 
out references to at least one of them. 


  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing 
them to be reunited “  
If that was true then that is evil.  

I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated 
yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.  

Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?  

The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to 
upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They are 
farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like what you 
are describing to me...  

So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?  

This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.  

Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???

Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the 
white house.  And only on liberal news media.  


From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no 
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand 
the word's meaning. 


On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

  Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

  69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have 
received at least one shot.  

  So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those 
vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 
60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed 
add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was 
only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have 
received at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me. 
 This is old, from one year ago:


  I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

  In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers 
are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  
I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that 
eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all 
vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an 
MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a 
good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  
Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Call Sign Chaos

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 12:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Not sure if he did a book, I was referring to his statement that he
released...

On 10/11/22 09:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Haven’t read that one.  Ordering it now.
Yeah, the books that I have read that were written by his insiders all 
paint a uniform picture of him.  He does not seem able to absorb expert 
opinion and synthesize outputs from it.
I feel sorry for those generals that simply got brushed away when he didn’t 
like what they were telling him.  I know one general personally and he is 
one of the brightest persons I have ever met.  I presume you cannot become 
a general without having some brains.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:16 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't 
believe him, you are indoctrinated...

On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide 
the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his 
administration's policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the 
benefit.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great
things for it .

Rory

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his
mother under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. Not 
much.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in
the _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC
vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they
think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they
also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of
misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have
the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both.

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have
the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump
rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and
watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is
part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support
Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why
there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really
being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an
issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is
a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the
industry expected.  It isn't surprising that wrenches
are thrown into the works whenever possible.

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals
are more concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to
believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a
group that is different form you.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM 
wrote:

Well the original description was “what is
important to be taught at school”.  In that
context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little
time is spent on racial issues in school then that
does make sense.

*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group' 
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was
the “too little” response.

Full arti

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Actually NPR is about the only thing I listen to.  

I don’t doubt it happened.  I don’t doubt that any random us govt bureaucracy 
would have also screwed it up that bad.  

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 12:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending 
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that 
would allow them to be reunited: 
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what 
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps he 
is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I guess that 
is a more favorable way to look at it.

P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to 
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under oath). 
If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind, I will dig 
out references to at least one of them. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing 
them to be reunited “  
  If that was true then that is evil.  

  I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated 
yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.  

  Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?  

  The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to upstate 
NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They are farmed 
out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like what you are 
describing to me...  

  So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?  

  This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.  

  Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???

  Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the white 
house.  And only on liberal news media.  

  From: Chuck Macenski 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no 
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand 
the word's meaning. 

  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have 
received at least one shot.  

So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those 
vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 
60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed 
add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was 
only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have 
received at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me. 
 This is old, from one year ago:

I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers 
are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  
I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that 
eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all 
vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an 
MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a 
good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  
Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he actually 
has covid.  

I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and stupid 
enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of critical 
thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.  Who knows 
what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.  

He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or 
Huffpo. 

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Chuck Macenski

As an FYI, I consider myself politically independent. Over my lifetime, I
have voted Republican more often than Democratic for president.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:28 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending
> anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.
>
> The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that
> would allow them to be reunited:
> https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy
>
> I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what
> Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps
> he is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I
> guess that is a more favorable way to look at it.
>
> P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy
> to look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under
> oath). If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind,
> I will dig out references to at least one of them.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever
>> allowing them to be reunited “
>> If that was true then that is evil.
>>
>> I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were
>> separated yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?
>> No.
>>
>> Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?
>>
>> The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to
>> upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They
>> are farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like
>> what you are describing to me...
>>
>> So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?
>>
>> This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.
>>
>> Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???
>>
>> Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the
>> white house.  And only on liberal news media.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>
>> If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
>> intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
>> understand the word's meaning.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>>>
>>> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
>>> received at least one shot.
>>>
>>> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
>>> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
>>> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
>>> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
>>> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
>>> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
>>> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
>>> [image: image]
>>>
>>> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
>>> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
>>> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
>>> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
>>> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
>>> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
>>> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
>>> from telling parents by the school district.
>>>
>>> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
>>> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
>>> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
>>> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
>>> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
>>> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
>>> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
>>> d

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Robert Andrews

Not sure if he did a book, I was referring to his statement that he 
released...


On 10/11/22 09:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Haven’t read that one.  Ordering it now.
Yeah, the books that I have read that were written by his insiders all 
paint a uniform picture of him.  He does not seem able to absorb expert 
opinion and synthesize outputs from it.
I feel sorry for those generals that simply got brushed away when he 
didn’t like what they were telling him.  I know one general personally 
and he is one of the brightest persons I have ever met.  I presume you 
cannot become a general without having some brains.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:16 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't 
believe him, you are indoctrinated...


On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to 
divide the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his 
administration's policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs 
the benefit.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great
things for it .

Rory

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his
mother under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. 
Not much.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in
the _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC
vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they
think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they
also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of
misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have
the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both.

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have
the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump
rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and
watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is
part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support
Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why
there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really
being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an
issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is
a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the
industry expected.  It isn't surprising that wrenches
are thrown into the works whenever possible.

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals
are more concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to
believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a
group that is different form you.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM 
wrote:

Well the original description was “what is
important to be taught at school”.  In that
context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little
time is spent on racial issues in school then that
does make sense.

*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group' 
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was
the “too little” response.

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.

*From:*Chuck McCown via AF

*Sent:*Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Chuck Macenski

There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that
would allow them to be reunited:
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps
he is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I
guess that is a more favorable way to look at it.

P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under
oath). If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind,
I will dig out references to at least one of them.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing
> them to be reunited “
> If that was true then that is evil.
>
> I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated
> yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.
>
> Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?
>
> The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to
> upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They
> are farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like
> what you are describing to me...
>
> So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?
>
> This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.
>
> Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???
>
> Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the
> white house.  And only on liberal news media.
>
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
> intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
> understand the word's meaning.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>>
>> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
>> received at least one shot.
>>
>> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
>> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
>> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
>> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
>> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
>> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
>> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
>> [image: image]
>>
>> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
>> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
>> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
>> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
>> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
>> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
>> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
>> from telling parents by the school district.
>>
>> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
>> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
>> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
>> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
>> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
>> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
>> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
>> dead from it.  Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and
>> denying he actually has covid.
>>
>> I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and
>> stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of
>> critical thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.
>> Who knows what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.
>>
>> He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or
>> Huffpo.
>>
&g

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Bill Prince


I don't see no steenking pictures.


bp


On 10/7/2022 9:34 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I've actually been working these days so havent had time to get out 
the old shit pot stir stick.
I did however rent my first porta shitter for a job and it got 
delivered to the site today. It smells so good in there, like a little 
slice of heaven by a corn field. So I got a jar of pickles for the 
work crew. May bring extra coffees and some tacos tommorrow


On Fri, Oct 7, 2022, 9:11 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I think it's quiet because people left because of the brushfires.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
*To: *af@af.afmug.com
*Cc: *"Chuck McCown" 
*Sent: *Friday, October 7, 2022 11:03:15 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Political

Been too quiet around here.  Thought I would try to ignite another
brushfire.
This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it.
Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school.
image

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Probably an appropriate destination for political threads...

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 11:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

i just wanted to show off my shitter. 

Its sitting on a road in a subdivision in rural IL. If anybody needs to drop a 
deuce. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Gheeze Steve, I was expecting you to throw gasoline on the fire  so you 
are calling lent?!?

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:49 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Heres a pic of my porta potty. Its use rate currently has a value of like 65 
bucks a turd. 
  Also, here is a pic of the water main we located for the water company.
  It was a fine Columbus day, as are many during the holiday season of lent.

  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:18 AM Robert  wrote:

If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't believe 
him, you are indoctrinated...

On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:

  I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide 
the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his administration's 
policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the benefit. 

  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great 
things for it .

Rory

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother 
under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.

Sent from my iPhone

  On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:

   the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
_republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?

  On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my daily 
for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 Model S 
and love both. 

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the 
lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan 
Klepper trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how 
"poorly educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the 
cult. You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone 
off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson 
 wrote:

  My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a 
large anti-EV contingent on the right:

  - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being 
pushed by groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is 
fossil fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving 
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It isn't 
surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible.   

  - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more 
concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when 
it is targeted at a group that is different form you.  

  On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:

Well the original description was “what is important to be 
taught at school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on 
racial issues in school then that does make sense.

From: Chuck McCown  
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too 
little” response.  

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

The question was as follows:

“D

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Steve Jones

i just wanted to show off my shitter.

Its sitting on a road in a subdivision in rural IL. If anybody needs to
drop a deuce.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Gheeze Steve, I was expecting you to throw gasoline on the fire  so
> you are calling lent?!?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> Heres a pic of my porta potty. Its use rate currently has a value of like
> 65 bucks a turd.
> Also, here is a pic of the water main we located for the water company.
> It was a fine Columbus day, as are many during the holiday season of lent.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:18 AM Robert  wrote:
>
>> If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't
>> believe him, you are indoctrinated...
>>
>> On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>>
>> I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide
>> the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his
>> administration's policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the
>> benefit.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things
>>> for it .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother
>>> under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
>>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the
>>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>>>
>>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll
>>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion.
>>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
>>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed
>>> 2022 Model S and love both.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest
>>> IQs in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper
>>> trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
>>> educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult.
>>> You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off
>>> the deep end.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson <
>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large
>>> anti-EV contingent on the right:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by
>>> groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil
>>> fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
>>> towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It
>>> isn't surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever
>>> possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more
>>> concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above,
>>> when it is targeted at a group that is different form you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well the original description was “what is important to be taught at
>>> school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.
>>>
>>> If 78%

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing them 
to be reunited “  
If that was true then that is evil.  

I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated yes. 
 That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.  

Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?  

The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to upstate 
NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They are farmed 
out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like what you are 
describing to me...  

So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?  

This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.  

Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???

Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the white 
house.  And only on liberal news media.  


From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no 
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand 
the word's meaning. 


On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

  69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have received 
at least one shot.  

  So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those 
vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 
60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed 
add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was 
only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have 
received at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me. 
 This is old, from one year ago:


  I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

  In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers are 
probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  I 
don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that eventually 
will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all vaccines are 
experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an MRNA compound 
created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a good friend, anti 
vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  Has had it for 
most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he actually has covid.  

  I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and stupid 
enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of critical 
thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.  Who knows 
what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.  

  He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or 
Huffpo. 




  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Chuck, 

  The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of 
people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you is 
believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at vaccine rates 
between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all kids are being 
groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that identify as a furry, 
that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and more. I've talked to enough 
anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe anymore.

  I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or 
"trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump won 
or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag with a 
trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American that is. I 
can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see how much of an 
evil person he is.

  I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are as 
low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have been 
indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about trump. 

  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Very few trump s

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Gheeze Steve, I was expecting you to throw gasoline on the fire  so you are 
calling lent?!?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Heres a pic of my porta potty. Its use rate currently has a value of like 65 
bucks a turd. 
Also, here is a pic of the water main we located for the water company.
It was a fine Columbus day, as are many during the holiday season of lent.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:18 AM Robert  wrote:

  If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't believe 
him, you are indoctrinated...

  On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:

I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide the 
nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his administration's 
policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the benefit. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

  Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things 
for it .

  Rory

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother 
under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.

  Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
_republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

  The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my daily 
for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 Model S 
and love both. 

  If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest 
IQs in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper 
trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly 
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. You 
can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off the 
deep end.

  On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson 
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a 
large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed 
by groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil 
fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving towards 
EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It isn't 
surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible.   

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more 
concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when 
it is targeted at a group that is different form you.  

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:

  Well the original description was “what is important to be taught 
at school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.

  If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on 
racial issues in school then that does make sense.

  From: Chuck McCown  
  Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” 
response.  

  Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  

  From: Chuck McCown via AF 

  Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Cc: Chuck McCown 

      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  The question was as follows:

  “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or 
too little time teaching about the following topics:”

  I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.  

  The source is as follows: 

  The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match 
sample on gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 
3,000 and the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.  

  There is an ultra libera

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Chuck Macenski

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
understand the word's meaning.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>
> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
> received at least one shot.
>
> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
> [image: image]
>
> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
> from telling parents by the school district.
>
> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
> dead from it.  Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and
> denying he actually has covid.
>
> I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and
> stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of
> critical thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.
> Who knows what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.
>
> He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or
> Huffpo.
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> Chuck,
>
> The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number
> of people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill
> you is believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at
> vaccine rates between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all
> kids are being groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that
> identify as a furry, that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and
> more. I've talked to enough anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe
> anymore.
>
> I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or
> "trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump
> won or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag
> with a trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American
> that is. I can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see
> how much of an evil person he is.
>
> I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are
> as low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have
> been indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about
> trump.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are
>> sampling the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rory,
>>
>> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent
>> to most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He
>> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him.
>>
>> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who
>> disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during
>> campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have received 
at least one shot.  

So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those vaxxed, 
that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 60% of 
the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed add to 
that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was only 
10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have received 
at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is 
old, from one year ago:


I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers are 
probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  I 
don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that eventually 
will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all vaccines are 
experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an MRNA compound 
created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a good friend, anti 
vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  Has had it for 
most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he actually has covid.  

I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and stupid 
enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of critical 
thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.  Who knows 
what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.  

He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or 
Huffpo. 




From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Chuck, 

The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of 
people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you is 
believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at vaccine rates 
between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all kids are being 
groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that identify as a furry, 
that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and more. I've talked to enough 
anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe anymore.

I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or 
"trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump won 
or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag with a 
trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American that is. I 
can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see how much of an 
evil person he is.

I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are as 
low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have been 
indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about trump. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are sampling 
the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.


  Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:


 
Rory, 

How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to 
most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He 
doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him. 

He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who 
disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during campaigns. 
One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against him, then the 
targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his followers. He's the 
least loyal person in office.

The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched 
dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr is 
still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control, 
microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone with a 
brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of the hypnosis 
soon.

You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's 
a decent human being but I don't make him my entire pe

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Darin Steffl

Chuck,

The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of
people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you
is believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at
vaccine rates between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all
kids are being groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that
identify as a furry, that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and
more. I've talked to enough anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe
anymore.

I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or
"trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump
won or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag
with a trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American
that is. I can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see
how much of an evil person he is.

I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are
as low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have
been indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about
trump.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are sampling
> the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Rory,
>
> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to
> most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He
> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him.
>
> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who
> disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during
> campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against
> him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his
> followers. He's the least loyal person in office.
>
> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched
> dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr
> is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control,
> microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone
> with a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of
> the hypnosis soon.
>
> You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's
> a decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like
> trumpers do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I
> don't praise him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a
> normal person should.
>
> 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things
>> for it .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>
>>
>>
>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother
>> under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the
>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>>
>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll
>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion.
>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed
>> 2022 Model S and love both.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs
>> in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper
>> trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
>> educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult.
>> You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off
>> the deep end.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are sampling the 
sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rory,
> 
> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to 
> most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He 
> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him. 
> 
> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who disobeys 
> him, including people who work for him in office and during campaigns. One 
> mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against him, then the 
> targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his followers. He's 
> the least loyal person in office.
> 
> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched dozens 
> of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr is still 
> alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control, microchips 
> in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone with a brain 
> sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of the hypnosis 
> soon.
> 
> You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's a 
> decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like trumpers 
> do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I don't praise 
> him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a normal person 
> should.
> 
> 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway  wrote:
>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things for 
>> it .
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Rory
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother under 
>> the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>> 
>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>> 
>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>> 
>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my 
>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 
>> Model S and love both.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs in 
>> America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" 
>> on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly educated" 
>> some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. You can be 
>> Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep 
>> end.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large 
>> anti-EV contingent on the right:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by groups 
>> with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel 
>> energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving towards EVs 
>> a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It isn't surprising 
>> that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible.   
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more concentrated 
>> in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when it is 
>> targeted at a group that is different form you.  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:
>> 
>> Well the original description was “what is important to be taught at 
>> school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.
>> 
>> If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on racial 
>> issues in school then that does make sense.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Chuck McCown  
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Ye is still an option, right!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2022, at 3:52 AM, Robert  wrote:
> 
>  I just saw that The Rock is definitely off the ballot...
> 
> On 10/10/22 11:48 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>> Rory,
>> 
>> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to 
>> most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He 
>> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him. 
>> 
>> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who disobeys 
>> him, including people who work for him in office and during campaigns. One 
>> mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against him, then the 
>> targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his followers. He's 
>> the least loyal person in office.
>> 
>> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched 
>> dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr is 
>> still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control, 
>> microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone with 
>> a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of the 
>> hypnosis soon.
>> 
>> You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's a 
>> decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like trumpers 
>> do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I don't praise 
>> him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a normal person 
>> should.
>> 
>> 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway  wrote:
>>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things 
>>> for it .
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Rory
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother under 
>>> the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
>>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>> 
>>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
>>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
>>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my 
>>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 
>>> 2022 Model S and love both.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs 
>>> in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper 
>>> trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly 
>>> educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. 
>>> You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off 
>>> the deep end.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large 
>>> anti-EV contingent on the right:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by 
>>> groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil 
>>> fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving 
>>> towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It 
>>> isn't surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible. 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more concentrated 
>>> in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when it is 
>>> targeted at a group that is different form you.  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Mo

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-11 Thread Robert


I just saw that The Rock is definitely off the ballot...

On 10/10/22 11:48 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

Rory,

How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is 
indifferent to most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares 
about himself. He doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees 
with him.


He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who 
disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during 
campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or 
against him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death 
threats from his followers. He's the least loyal person in office.


The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched 
dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK 
Jr is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind 
control, microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than 
low. Anyone with a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his 
supporters snap out of the hypnosis soon.


You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because 
he's a decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality 
like trumpers do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by 
God, I don't praise him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some 
things like a normal person should.


2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway  
wrote:


But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great
things for it .

Rory

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his
mother under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. 
Not much.

Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in
the _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC
vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they
think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they
also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of
misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have
the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both.

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have
the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump
rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and
watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is
part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support
Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why
there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really
being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an
issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is
a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the
industry expected.  It isn't surprising that wrenches
are thrown into the works whenever possible.

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals
are more concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to
believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a
group that is different form you.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM 
wrote:

Well the original description was “what is
important to be taught at school”.  In that
context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little
time is spent on racial issues in school then that
does make sense.

*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group' 
            *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was
the “too little” response.

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-10 Thread Chuck McCown via AF


Gen z is far less woke than millennials.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2022, at 6:04 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> 
> Not like Fox hates liberals.
> 
> They don't encourage violence and rile people up. Trumpers aren't a protected 
> class like race, sex, ethnicity, sexual preference. Hating people because of 
> these factors makes someone a bad person. 
> 
> Disliking people for supporting an evil man like trump doesn't make someone 
> hateful. Disliking people for any of the things listed above does make you 
> hateful.
> 
> I don't hate people for supporting trump but I really dislike that they still 
> approve of the guy. And if you could scan someone's brain to see if they're 
> racist or homophobic, I guarantee the majority of trump supporters are. 
> There's a reason why white supremacists and anti-LGBT people love trump, and 
> not anyone on the left. Republicans in the next 10 years will have a very 
> hard time winning elections if Gen Z kids decide to vote.
> 
> What I've seen from this generation is they won't accept what the right is 
> doing. Attacking people of color, women, LGBT, etc. This is their final nail 
> the coffin. The right is taking away freedoms and 80% of sexual scandals in 
> politics are from the right. They're projecting like crazy. They say the left 
> are groomers but far more Republicans have sex scandals like grooming kids, 
> prostitution, paying for abortions, being secretly gay but proclaiming that 
> gays are bad. Their belief is "rules for thee, not for me" 
> 
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 4:47 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>> MSNBC really hates trumpophiles...
>>  
>> From: Darin Steffl
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 3:20 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>  
>> It's not fair to say ALL cable news channels are uniformly evil. One lies a 
>> lot more than the other ones and that would be FOX. I read/watch FOX, CNN, 
>> and MSNBC periodically to see what is being said and written. If I fact 
>> check what I'm seeing, FOX lies at a much higher rate than the others. And 
>> Fox certainly spews more hate and fear mongering than anyone else out there.
>>  
>> I read news from many sources and Fox is one of those just to see what kind 
>> of crap they're telling people today. It really is meant to scare people 
>> into voting their way. War on Christmas, War on church, War on blah blah blah
>>  
>> Fox is an opinion network, not a news network. They've argued this in court 
>> many times and based on what I read and watch, I can confirm this to be 
>> true. CNN can be biased, but not in a way that attacks people like Fox. 
>> Watching CNN doesn't push people into being racist or homophobic like Fox 
>> does. It doesn't call black people thugs or tell people they all belong in 
>> prison. Liberal news doesn't force religion on everyone whether they believe 
>> it or not. There is and always should be separation of church and state.
>>  
>> Anyone that has watched or read both can confirm that Fox spews hate and 
>> CNN/MSNBC and others are more fact based with some emotion added in but not 
>> for hate towards people.
>>  
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 2:52 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>> I don’t give him a pass, but I recognize he is effective at times in 
>>> getting things done I would like to see done. 
>>>  
>>> I like what our governor of Utah said last week, he said Fox, CNN, MSNBC 
>>> and other cable news sources are uniformly evil.  He doesn’t watch any of 
>>> them and is now 9 years sober  from cable news.  He talked about how they 
>>> employ psychologists to modify content to effectively keep viewers 
>>> addicted. 
>>>  
>>> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 1:09 PM
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>>  
>>> I’ve never understood why so many people acknowledge Trump is a bad person 
>>> and then give him a pass anyway.  How far does he have to go to become 
>>> personally unelectable?  Is it actually *good* to have a politician around 
>>> who can motivate wingnuts to vote a certain way?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Both major parties do have their share of wingnuts whom they have to cater 
>>> to in order to have a majority on anything, but wouldn’t it be nice if the 
>>> adults could talk and just tell the idiots in the room to shut up?  I’ve 
>>> been looking at parliamentary systems in other countries and wondering if 
>>> we m

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-10 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

I dunno, me-too in hollywierd overwhelmingly cancelled liberals.  

I  promise, republicans will pivot to whatever position wins the elections.  

Back in the day, democrats were the biggest racists.  Pendulums swing.  

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 6:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Not like Fox hates liberals. 

They don't encourage violence and rile people up. Trumpers aren't a protected 
class like race, sex, ethnicity, sexual preference. Hating people because of 
these factors makes someone a bad person. 

Disliking people for supporting an evil man like trump doesn't make someone 
hateful. Disliking people for any of the things listed above does make you 
hateful.

I don't hate people for supporting trump but I really dislike that they still 
approve of the guy. And if you could scan someone's brain to see if they're 
racist or homophobic, I guarantee the majority of trump supporters are. There's 
a reason why white supremacists and anti-LGBT people love trump, and not anyone 
on the left. Republicans in the next 10 years will have a very hard time 
winning elections if Gen Z kids decide to vote.

What I've seen from this generation is they won't accept what the right is 
doing. Attacking people of color, women, LGBT, etc. This is their final nail 
the coffin. The right is taking away freedoms and 80% of sexual scandals in 
politics are from the right. They're projecting like crazy. They say the left 
are groomers but far more Republicans have sex scandals like grooming kids, 
prostitution, paying for abortions, being secretly gay but proclaiming that 
gays are bad. Their belief is "rules for thee, not for me" 

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 4:47 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  MSNBC really hates trumpophiles...

  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 3:20 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  It's not fair to say ALL cable news channels are uniformly evil. One lies a 
lot more than the other ones and that would be FOX. I read/watch FOX, CNN, and 
MSNBC periodically to see what is being said and written. If I fact check what 
I'm seeing, FOX lies at a much higher rate than the others. And Fox certainly 
spews more hate and fear mongering than anyone else out there. 

  I read news from many sources and Fox is one of those just to see what kind 
of crap they're telling people today. It really is meant to scare people into 
voting their way. War on Christmas, War on church, War on blah blah blah

  Fox is an opinion network, not a news network. They've argued this in court 
many times and based on what I read and watch, I can confirm this to be true. 
CNN can be biased, but not in a way that attacks people like Fox. Watching CNN 
doesn't push people into being racist or homophobic like Fox does. It doesn't 
call black people thugs or tell people they all belong in prison. Liberal news 
doesn't force religion on everyone whether they believe it or not. There is and 
always should be separation of church and state.

  Anyone that has watched or read both can confirm that Fox spews hate and 
CNN/MSNBC and others are more fact based with some emotion added in but not for 
hate towards people.

  On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 2:52 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

I don’t give him a pass, but I recognize he is effective at times in 
getting things done I would like to see done.  

I like what our governor of Utah said last week, he said Fox, CNN, MSNBC 
and other cable news sources are uniformly evil.  He doesn’t watch any of them 
and is now 9 years sober  from cable news.  He talked about how they employ 
psychologists to modify content to effectively keep viewers addicted.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 1:09 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I’ve never understood why so many people acknowledge Trump is a bad person 
and then give him a pass anyway.  How far does he have to go to become 
personally unelectable?  Is it actually *good* to have a politician around who 
can motivate wingnuts to vote a certain way? 

Both major parties do have their share of wingnuts whom they have to cater 
to in order to have a majority on anything, but wouldn’t it be nice if the 
adults could talk and just tell the idiots in the room to shut up?  I’ve been 
looking at parliamentary systems in other countries and wondering if we messed 
this up early on. Parliamentary countries seem to end up with two or three 
mainstream parties with most of the seats and then the various single issue 
and/or crazy parties each get their own little slice of the seats.  Then they 
get to stand in the room and say their piece, but nobody really has to pay them 
undue attention.

Maybe more importantly we should put a leash on our cable news channels.  
Make them put a flashing disclai

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-10 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Irrespective of whether you are religious or Christian or not, I find it 
interesting that a prophecy has come true, and literally made so by the 
internet and WISPS:  Luke 12:3

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 1:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

It is certainly an ugly game.  

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 12:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

IMHO: it might be short-sighted to support someone who enjoys making people 
suffer needlessly. 

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:51 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Never been able to stand Trump as a human.  But he is effective with a certain 
segment of the population, so as a tool to get people I support elected, I 
suppose he may have some limited use.  As much as I dislike Trump, I dislike 
Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, the mayor of Chicago etc etc more.  Both parties 
have tons of wingnuts that get lots of press while hard working more reasonable 
lawmakers go unknown to most of us.  We really do have a nation that has two 
different realities.  Urban vs Rural.  Two different mentalities.  What works 
for one will not work for the other and that will never change.  Farmboy vs 
Cityboy.  Each view the other as somewhat stupid I think.  

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 10:25 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll reinstate 
Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty 
of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my daily for 4 years. I 
had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both. 

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs in 
America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on 
youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly educated" some 
are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. You can be 
Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson  
wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large anti-EV 
contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by groups 
with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy 
which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving towards EVs a whole 
lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It isn't surprising that 
wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible.   

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more concentrated in 
urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted 
at a group that is different form you.  

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:

Well the original description was “what is important to be taught at school”.  
In that context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on racial issues 
in school then that does make sense.

From: Chuck McCown  
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” response.  

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

The question was as follows:

“Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little time 
teaching about the following topics:”

I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.  

The source is as follows: 

The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match sample on 
gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 3,000 and 
the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.  

There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen State College. 
 They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust science 
because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism.  The extreme 
left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific scrutiny.  So 
the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust science, but for 
different reasons.  

So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics and 
samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers... right ‘'

In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an election, 
which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of hand, don’t believe 
it, it is flawed... ???

From: dmmoff...@gmail.c

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-08 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

I too know long haired academics in the sciences that lean liberal.  All of 
academia leans liberal, especially in California (with the exception of BYU, 
who is playing Notre Dame today at 5:30 mountain)But I don’t count them as 
rank and file democrats.  I think they are just broad thinkers and recognize 
that we need to take care of the less fortunate.

I argue daily with some local friends that do not believe in man made climate 
change or that EVs are viable or that covid was anything other than a hoax.  

We have had dozens of EV arguments.  No clue why the red hat makes you hate 
EVs!!!

I would guess MAGA == ALT Right.  But it really is fun to purposely play dumb 
and troll liberals.  I think Trump actually did do some good things.  Wait in 
Mexico was a good thing.  The border wall was probably a good thing.  Warp 
Speed Vaccine production was a good thing.  Not sure if he originated those 
ideas or had advisors and party members propose them.   I am daily hating the 
chinese steel tariffs...

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2022 11:36 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

That's a fairly narrow view, and arbitrarily binary.

I know a crap-load of "liberals" (and I don't know their political affiliation) 
who are mathematicians, physicists, and engineers of various types. Conversely, 
I know a bunch of locals with minimal education who (based on their rhetoric) 
are right-wing conservatives and eschew math, science, and such as "elite".

And where do the MAGA crowd fit in this survey? They are sort-of conservative, 
but are they actually Republicans? Seems to me they are mostly Just 
anti-government.


Further, based on (admittedly dated) statistical information that I've seen, 
Republicans and Democrats (not accounting for whether they are left, right, or 
center) account for less than 50% of the voting population.

If you want to lump everyone in one of two or three categories, you are 
artificially limiting the conversation.



bp
On 10/7/2022 3:00 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  Liberal Democrats are separate from Moderate Democrats.  So 100% for each.
Two separate categories of democrats.  
  To me, assuming this survey was taken from a representative cross section and 
is as unbiased as any survey can be, confirms that my gut feelings are about 
these issues.  

  If you go to college, study humanities, liberal arts etc , hug trees and 
volunteer for “insert cause” you will probably find yourself on the left side 
of this graphic and you may end up hating the folks on the right because they 
tend to accumulate wealth and power.  

  Those folks on the right that frequently are in control of businesses and 
paychecks.  It is just the human condition.

  If you do not value the study of math, science and government I would think 
you may find it more difficult to find financial success in your life.  You 
likely will not be a business owner.  And you might end up hating your boss 
rather than being the boss.  

  From: Tim Hardy 
  Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 3:47 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  So how come there’s 133% democrats in the racial column as an example. On 
this question in particular, did they ensure the sample included the same 
percentages of minorities in every category? Maybe they explain all this, but I 
have better things to do with my time..



On Oct 7, 2022, at 4:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” response. 
 
Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Cc: Chuck McCown
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

The question was as follows:

“Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little 
time teaching about the following topics:”

I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.  
The source is as follows: 
The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match sample on 
gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 3,000 and 
the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.  


There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen State 
College.  They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust 
science because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism.  The 
extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific 
scrutiny.  So the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust science, 
but for different reasons.  

So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics and 
samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers... right 
‘'

In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an 
election, which really is also a survey) yo

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-08 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

I agree Forrest, but I have zero hope for reform.  BTW, I think Liz Cheney is a 
babe!

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2022 12:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

So I can explain this chart simply.. 

The far right argues that we spend too much time on things like gender and race 
in school, so those regularly exposed to that argument are naturally going to 
argue that we need to 'spend less time on gender and race and more time on 
traditional studies like math and science"

The far left seems to think that people need to be more aware about race and 
other forms of equality like the whole gender politics thing.So they're 
obviously going to consider that we need to provide more teaching about it in 
school. 

My opinion is that both parties have an extreme wing that they need to shed.  
Specifically the ones on the right which seems to want to move towards an 
authoritarian regime with them in charge, and the ones on the left which is 
hard to define but seems to be an odd mix of communism and forced equality.

The problem is that after years of demonizing the other side, each party needs 
their extreme wing to be able to win elections.   

On Fri, Oct 7, 2022, 2:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  The question was as follows:

  “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little 
time teaching about the following topics:”

  I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.  
  The source is as follows: 
  The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match sample on 
gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 3,000 and 
the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.  

  There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen State 
College.  They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust 
science because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism.  The 
extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific 
scrutiny.  So the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust science, 
but for different reasons.  

  So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics and 
samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers... right ‘'

  In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an election, 
which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of hand, don’t believe 
it, it is flawed... ???

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 11:57 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Interesting.

  I would think nearly 99% of people would think “Math” and “Science” should be 
taught in school, so there must be some kind of relative ranking to come up 
with those percentages.  I don’t believe for a minute that only a bare majority 
of any political party thinks science is important.

  I’d also guess there was some colorful to the phrasing of the survey 
questions.  If they asked “Should students be taught to respect people of all 
races” the percentages would be high across the board.  You’d have to phrase it 
in some inflammatory way to get that spread. 

  Anyway it’s cute, but I have questions about the methodology used to come up 
with those numbers.  I wonder if the methodology is “let’s make up an imaginary 
number”.

  -Adam

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 12:03 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Been too quiet around here.  Thought I would try to ignite another brushfire.

  This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it.

  Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school.  

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-08 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

So I can explain this chart simply..

The far right argues that we spend too much time on things like gender and
race in school, so those regularly exposed to that argument are naturally
going to argue that we need to 'spend less time on gender and race and more
time on traditional studies like math and science"

The far left seems to think that people need to be more aware about race
and other forms of equality like the whole gender politics thing.So
they're obviously going to consider that we need to provide more teaching
about it in school.

My opinion is that both parties have an extreme wing that they need to
shed.  Specifically the ones on the right which seems to want to move
towards an authoritarian regime with them in charge, and the ones on the
left which is hard to define but seems to be an odd mix of communism and
forced equality.

The problem is that after years of demonizing the other side, each party
needs their extreme wing to be able to win elections.


On Fri, Oct 7, 2022, 2:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> The question was as follows:
>
> “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little
> time teaching about the following topics:”
>
> I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.
> The source is as follows:
> The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match sample on
> gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 3,000
> and the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.
>
>
> There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen State
> College.  They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust
> science because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism.  The
> extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific
> scrutiny.  So the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust
> science, but for different reasons.
>
> So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics
> and samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers...
> right [image: Winking smile]‘'
>
> In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an
> election, which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of hand,
> don’t believe it, it is flawed... ???
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 7, 2022 11:57 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
>
> Interesting.
>
>
>
> I would think nearly 99% of people would think “Math” and “Science” should
> be taught in school, so there must be some kind of relative ranking to come
> up with those percentages.  I don’t believe for a minute that only a bare
> majority of any political party thinks science is important.
>
>
>
> I’d also guess there was some colorful to the phrasing of the survey
> questions.  If they asked “Should students be taught to respect people of
> all races” the percentages would be high across the board.  You’d have to
> phrase it in some inflammatory way to get that spread.
>
>
>
> Anyway it’s cute, but I have questions about the methodology used to come
> up with those numbers.  I wonder if the methodology is “let’s make up an
> imaginary number”.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 12:03 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Political
>
>
>
> Been too quiet around here.  Thought I would try to ignite another
> brushfire.
>
>
>
> This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it.
>
> Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school.
>
>
>
> [image: image]
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-08 Thread Bill Prince


That's a fairly narrow view, and arbitrarily binary.

I know a crap-load of "liberals" (and I don't know their political 
affiliation) who are mathematicians, physicists, and engineers of 
various types. Conversely, I know a bunch of locals with minimal 
education who (based on their rhetoric) are right-wing conservatives and 
eschew math, science, and such as "elite".


And where do the MAGA crowd fit in this survey? They are sort-of 
conservative, but are they actually Republicans? Seems to me they are 
mostly Just anti-government.


Further, based on (admittedly dated) statistical information that I've 
seen, Republicans and Democrats (not accounting for whether they are 
left, right, or center) account for less than 50% of the voting population.


If you want to lump everyone in one of two or three categories, you are 
artificially limiting the conversation.



bp


On 10/7/2022 3:00 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Liberal Democrats are separate from Moderate Democrats. So 100% for 
each.    Two separate categories of democrats.
To me, assuming this survey was taken from a representative cross 
section and is as unbiased as any survey can be, confirms that my gut 
feelings are about these issues.
If you go to college, study humanities, liberal arts etc , hug trees 
and volunteer for “insert cause” you will probably find yourself on 
the left side of this graphic and you may end up hating the folks on 
the right because they tend to accumulate wealth and power.
Those folks on the right that frequently are in control of businesses 
and paychecks.  It is just the human condition.
If you do not value the study of math, science and government I would 
think you may find it more difficult to find financial success in your 
life.  You likely will not be a business owner.  And you might end up 
hating your boss rather than being the boss.

*From:* Tim Hardy
*Sent:* Friday, October 7, 2022 3:47 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
So how come there’s 133% democrats in the racial column as an example. 
On this question in particular, did they ensure the sample included 
the same percentages of minorities in every category? Maybe they 
explain all this, but I have better things to do with my time..



On Oct 7, 2022, at 4:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” 
response.

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.
*From:*Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:*Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM
*To:*dmmoff...@gmail.com;'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:*Chuck McCown
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
The question was as follows:
“Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too 
little time teaching about the following topics:”

I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.
The source is as follows:
The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match 
sample on gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The 
sample size is 3,000 and the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.
There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen 
State College.  They actually have a faction that teaches that you 
cannot trust science because it teaches concepts that are counter to 
postmodernism.  The extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not 
stand up to scientific scrutiny.  So the extreme left and the extreme 
right both don’t trust science, but for different reasons.
So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of 
statistics and samples and surveys because they just make up 
imaginary numbers... right‘'
In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an 
election, which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of 
hand, don’t believe it, it is flawed... ???

*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com
*Sent:*Friday, October 7, 2022 11:57 AM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:*'Chuck McCown'
*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT Political
Interesting.
I would think nearly 99% of people would think “Math” and “Science” 
should be taught in school, so there must be some kind of relative 
ranking to come up with those percentages.  I don’t believe for a 
minute that only a bare majority of any political party thinks 
science is important.
I’d also guess there was some colorful to the phrasing of the survey 
questions.  If they asked “Should students be taught to respect 
people of all races” the percentages would be high across the board.  
You’d have to phrase it in some inflammatory way to get that spread.
Anyway it’s cute, but I have questions about the methodology used to 
come up with those numbers.  I wonder if the methodology is “let’s 
make up an imaginary number”.

-Adam
*From:*AF *On Behalf Of*Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:*Friday, October 07, 2022 12:03 PM
*To:*af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:*Chuck McCown 
*Subject:*[AFMUG] OT Political
Been too quiet around here. Thought I would try to ignite another 
brushfire.

This graphic expla

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-07 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Liberal Democrats are separate from Moderate Democrats.  So 100% for each.
Two separate categories of democrats.  
To me, assuming this survey was taken from a representative cross section and 
is as unbiased as any survey can be, confirms that my gut feelings are about 
these issues.  

If you go to college, study humanities, liberal arts etc , hug trees and 
volunteer for “insert cause” you will probably find yourself on the left side 
of this graphic and you may end up hating the folks on the right because they 
tend to accumulate wealth and power.  

Those folks on the right that frequently are in control of businesses and 
paychecks.  It is just the human condition.

If you do not value the study of math, science and government I would think you 
may find it more difficult to find financial success in your life.  You likely 
will not be a business owner.  And you might end up hating your boss rather 
than being the boss.  

From: Tim Hardy 
Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 3:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

So how come there’s 133% democrats in the racial column as an example. On this 
question in particular, did they ensure the sample included the same 
percentages of minorities in every category? Maybe they explain all this, but I 
have better things to do with my time..



  On Oct 7, 2022, at 4:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” response.  
  Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  

  From: Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM
  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
  Cc: Chuck McCown
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  The question was as follows:

  “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little 
time teaching about the following topics:”

  I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.  
  The source is as follows: 
  The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match sample on 
gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 3,000 and 
the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.  


  There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen State 
College.  They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust 
science because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism.  The 
extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific 
scrutiny.  So the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust science, 
but for different reasons.  

  So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics and 
samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers... right 
‘'

  In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an election, 
which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of hand, don’t believe 
it, it is flawed... ???

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
  Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 11:57 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
  Cc: 'Chuck McCown'
  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Interesting.
   
  I would think nearly 99% of people would think “Math” and “Science” should be 
taught in school, so there must be some kind of relative ranking to come up 
with those percentages.  I don’t believe for a minute that only a bare majority 
of any political party thinks science is important.
   
  I’d also guess there was some colorful to the phrasing of the survey 
questions.  If they asked “Should students be taught to respect people of all 
races” the percentages would be high across the board.  You’d have to phrase it 
in some inflammatory way to get that spread. 
   
  Anyway it’s cute, but I have questions about the methodology used to come up 
with those numbers.  I wonder if the methodology is “let’s make up an imaginary 
number”.
   
  -Adam
   
  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 12:03 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Political
   
  Been too quiet around here.  Thought I would try to ignite another brushfire.
   
  This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it.
  Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school.  
   
  
   


--
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

2022-10-07 Thread Tim Hardy

So how come there’s 133% democrats in the racial column as an example. On this 
question in particular, did they ensure the sample included the same 
percentages of minorities in every category? Maybe they explain all this, but I 
have better things to do with my time..

> On Oct 7, 2022, at 4:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 
> I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” response.  
> Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  
>  
> From: Chuck McCown via AF <>
> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM
> To: dmmoff...@gmail.com <> ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <>
> Cc: Chuck McCown <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>  
> The question was as follows:
>  
> “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little 
> time teaching about the following topics:”
>  
> I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.  
> The source is as follows: 
> The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match sample on 
> gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 3,000 
> and the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.  
>  
>  
> There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen State 
> College.  They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust 
> science because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism.  The 
> extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific 
> scrutiny.  So the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust 
> science, but for different reasons.  
>  
> So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics and 
> samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers... right 
> ‘'
>  
> In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an election, 
> which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of hand, don’t believe 
> it, it is flawed... ???
>  
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com <>
> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 11:57 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <>
> Cc: 'Chuck McCown' <>
> Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Political
>  
> Interesting.
>  
> I would think nearly 99% of people would think “Math” and “Science” should be 
> taught in school, so there must be some kind of relative ranking to come up 
> with those percentages.  I don’t believe for a minute that only a bare 
> majority of any political party thinks science is important.
>  
> I’d also guess there was some colorful to the phrasing of the survey 
> questions.  If they asked “Should students be taught to respect people of all 
> races” the percentages would be high across the board.  You’d have to phrase 
> it in some inflammatory way to get that spread. 
>  
> Anyway it’s cute, but I have questions about the methodology used to come up 
> with those numbers.  I wonder if the methodology is “let’s make up an 
> imaginary number”.
>  
> -Adam
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 12:03 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Political
>  
> Been too quiet around here.  Thought I would try to ignite another brushfire.
>  
> This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it.
> Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school.  
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-03 Thread Mike Hammett

Unfortunately, exuberant fanboyism ruins many things. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:19:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX 


Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to actual data 
unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and that somehow their 
favorite far right TV personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors 
and Scientists. 


Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 times and 
they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid because they had 
natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! Did they admit they were 
wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x 
worse than admit fault and do the right thing. 


On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 






Utah. 
Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax. 
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted) 

I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years. But I am a greenie... 

image-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 





-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Robert


  "pay attention to history".


/“The only thing that we learn from//history//is that we learn nothing 
from//history//.”/-Georg Hegel


Recently quoted to me from LLoyd Taylor...

On 4/1/22 10:31 AM, Brian Webster wrote:


If you don’t reign in lobbyists citizen votes become less and less 
value and we get the best government money can buy. If they can’t come 
to compromises then maybe that can’t get bills pass period…. Not the 
worst thing to happen in my mind. It’s really pointless to argue this 
since neither party is going to change the status quo, you know 
because of that power thing. Things will get a lot worse before they 
get better and that might takes 100 years or more, longer if people 
don’t pay attention to history and look at what worked well and what 
didn’t But hey with common core they aren’t going to let the teachers 
go in to stuff like that…. They want us all useful idiots and not have 
critical thinking skills.


Brian

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Friday, April 1, 2022 1:17 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Lobbying….

It’s a tough one, and there are good arguments both ways.   
 Politicians are absolutely not experts on much of anything (other 
then running for election).  As such they need someone to tell them 
what they need to be doing.   In an ideal world the citizens with 
expertise in the subjects would be the ones doing that - but that is 
not going to happen.   The experts in any given field certainly don’t 
have the time or inclination to babysit the politicians.


The other bizarre part of politics in Congress now is that it’s so 
polarized that the R’s and D’s often won’t even talk to each other.   
The lobbyists have become the middleman.    I have personally seen 
lobbyists with a phone in each ear with one the D committee staffer 
and the other the R staffer and he is relaying positions and trying to 
negotiate compromises.   It’s completely ridiculous, but it’s the way 
DC is working these days.


If you ban lobbyist I think you are going to get even worse 
legislation, and probably even more polarization.


Mark



On Apr 1, 2022, at 12:40 PM, Brian Webster  
wrote:


Term limits and the ban on lobbying have to go hand in hand, without 
that former politicians just become lobbyists, kind of like how FCC 
commissioners do now….. They have laws for people like lowly contract 
negotiators in the Navy that forbids them from dealing with any 
companies they negotiated contracts with for 10 years after leaving 
service.


Brian

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com 
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>]*On Behalf Of*Jason McKemie

*Sent:*Friday, April 1, 2022 12:27 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Another big issue is lobbying. I'm pretty much of the opinion that 
should be outlawed, at least in the current form (which is basically 
bribery).



On Friday, April 1, 2022, Nate Burke <mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:


Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to 
congress for the congressional session, but ran your normal business 
when not in DC?  It wasn't your full time job. Although that thinking 
will open up a whole hive of 'then only the rich can afford to run the 
country'


On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:

More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you 
get free medical.


On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:



Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury 
duty. Have a few professional committee politicians and the rest 
'regular people' to get the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby 
summons to report to Congress for the next 6 months.



At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress 
has become the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start 
prying them out of the seats and make the seats just another job we 
are pretty much screwed and will get more screwed right until it all 
falls apart.Â Â  I probably have around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna be 
interesting to see what kills me first.


On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their platform 
that I support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â But they have 
to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â

Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to 
try and save their lives while denying they have covid? It really 
makes me sad how easily these people can be manipulated.

Â
Pretty much all fox "news&q

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Robert

Yes, you had to own land or a business.   And the stated reason was to 
make it so those who ran for office would have incentive not to want to 
be in office.   Somewhere that part of the setup of the government was 
lost.   Power corrupts...


On 4/1/22 6:46 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to 
congress for the congressional session, but ran your normal business 
when not in DC?  It wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking 
will open up a whole hive of 'then only the rich can afford to run the 
country'


On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:
More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we 
have created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years 
and you get free medical.


On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:



Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury 
duty. Have a few professional committee politicians and the rest 
'regular people' to get the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby 
summons to report to Congress for the next 6 months.



At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress 
has become the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to 
start prying them out of the seats and make the seats just another 
job we are pretty much screwed and will get more screwed right 
until it all falls apart.Â Â  I probably have around 20 years 
left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see what kills me first.


On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their 
platform that I support.Â Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â But they 
have to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â

Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment 
to try and save their lives while denying they have covid? It 
really makes me sad how easily these people can be manipulated.

Â
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they 
make their viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and 
boosted and he has been booed on stage when he said that.

Â
I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep 
proving to me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I 
possibly could. I'm all for moderate politicians and so far, Biden 
has been fairly moderate and not pandering too much to the far 
left. And I wish GOP members would stop pandering to the far right 
beliefs that are killing people with covid and causing them to 
storm the capitol because they think the election was stolen. 
Obviously, it was not. I'm firmly against any politician that 
shows they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 so it's time to let people 
love who they love without hating on them.

Â
Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in 
their party like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, 
and some other crazy lady who dropped out of highschool. All they 
do is spew hate and don't actually legislate.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.Â
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave 
them the IV treatment.Â

Â
She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging 
for treatment.Â

And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant 
to actual data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, 
rigged, and that somehow their favorite far right TV personalities 
or podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors and Scientists.

Â
Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 
2-3 times and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't 
get Covid because they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out 
for them?!?! Did they admit they were wrong? Of course not because 
they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x worse than admit 
fault and do the right thing.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

Utah.Â
Yeah, you donâ€™t need no stinking vax.Â
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
Â
I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.Â But I 
am a greenie...

Â
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Â
Â
--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
<http://www.mnwifi.com/>www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>Like us on Facebook



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com












--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Yes, all elections will be held on pornhub.  We want the candidates to be easy 
on the eyes.

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 11:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Democracy has failed… time for cybertocracy… 

 Gino Villarini
  Founder / President
  @GVillarini
  787.273.4143 |  

  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF 

Date: Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:38 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

I am actually loving the situation that Sinema and Manchin have carved out for 
themselves.  Totally cat bird seat.  What a hoot!

From: Brian Webster 

Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 11:31 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

If you don’t reign in lobbyists citizen votes become less and less value and we 
get the best government money can buy. If they can’t come to compromises then 
maybe that can’t get bills pass period…. Not the worst thing to happen in my 
mind. It’s really pointless to argue this since neither party is going to 
change the status quo, you know because of that power thing. Things will get a 
lot worse before they get better and that might takes 100 years or more, longer 
if people don’t pay attention to history and look at what worked well and what 
didn’t But hey with common core they aren’t going to let the teachers go in to 
stuff like that…. They want us all useful idiots and not have critical thinking 
skills. 

Brian 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Lobbying….

It’s a tough one, and there are good arguments both ways.Politicians are 
absolutely not experts on much of anything (other then running for election).  
As such they need someone to tell them what they need to be doing.   In an 
ideal world the citizens with expertise in the subjects would be the ones doing 
that - but that is not going to happen.   The experts in any given field 
certainly don’t have the time or inclination to babysit the politicians.   

The other bizarre part of politics in Congress now is that it’s so polarized 
that the R’s and D’s often won’t even talk to each other.   The lobbyists have 
become the middleman.I have personally seen lobbyists with a phone in each 
ear with one the D committee staffer and the other the R staffer and he is 
relaying positions and trying to negotiate compromises.   It’s completely 
ridiculous, but it’s the way DC is working these days.

If you ban lobbyist I think you are going to get even worse legislation, and 
probably even more polarization.

Mark

On Apr 1, 2022, at 12:40 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:

Term limits and the ban on lobbying have to go hand in hand, without that 
former politicians just become lobbyists, kind of like how FCC commissioners do 
now….. They have laws for people like lowly contract negotiators in the Navy 
that forbids them from dealing with any companies they negotiated contracts 
with for 10 years after leaving service.

Brian

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 12:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Another big issue is lobbying. I'm pretty much of the opinion that should be 
outlawed, at least in the current form (which is basically bribery).

On Friday, April 1, 2022, Nate Burke  wrote:

Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to congress 
for the congressional session, but ran your normal business when not in DC?  It 
wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking will open up a whole hive of 
'then only the rich can afford to run the country'

On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:

More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you get free 
medical.

On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:

Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury duty. Have 
a few professional committee politicians and the rest 'regular people' to get 
the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby summons to report to Congress for 
the next 6 months.

At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress has become 
the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start prying them out of 
the seats and make the seats just another job we are pretty much screwed and 
will get more screwed right until it all falls apart.Â Â  I probably have 
around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see what kills me first.

On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

I am actually loving the situation that Sinema and Manchin have carved out for 
themselves.  Totally cat bird seat.  What a hoot!

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 11:31 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

If you don’t reign in lobbyists citizen votes become less and less value and we 
get the best government money can buy. If they can’t come to compromises then 
maybe that can’t get bills pass period…. Not the worst thing to happen in my 
mind. It’s really pointless to argue this since neither party is going to 
change the status quo, you know because of that power thing. Things will get a 
lot worse before they get better and that might takes 100 years or more, longer 
if people don’t pay attention to history and look at what worked well and what 
didn’t But hey with common core they aren’t going to let the teachers go in to 
stuff like that…. They want us all useful idiots and not have critical thinking 
skills. 

Brian 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Lobbying….

It’s a tough one, and there are good arguments both ways.Politicians are 
absolutely not experts on much of anything (other then running for election).  
As such they need someone to tell them what they need to be doing.   In an 
ideal world the citizens with expertise in the subjects would be the ones doing 
that - but that is not going to happen.   The experts in any given field 
certainly don’t have the time or inclination to babysit the politicians.   

The other bizarre part of politics in Congress now is that it’s so polarized 
that the R’s and D’s often won’t even talk to each other.   The lobbyists have 
become the middleman.I have personally seen lobbyists with a phone in each 
ear with one the D committee staffer and the other the R staffer and he is 
relaying positions and trying to negotiate compromises.   It’s completely 
ridiculous, but it’s the way DC is working these days.

If you ban lobbyist I think you are going to get even worse legislation, and 
probably even more polarization.

Mark

On Apr 1, 2022, at 12:40 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:

Term limits and the ban on lobbying have to go hand in hand, without that 
former politicians just become lobbyists, kind of like how FCC commissioners do 
now….. They have laws for people like lowly contract negotiators in the Navy 
that forbids them from dealing with any companies they negotiated contracts 
with for 10 years after leaving service.

Brian

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 12:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Another big issue is lobbying. I'm pretty much of the opinion that should be 
outlawed, at least in the current form (which is basically bribery).

On Friday, April 1, 2022, Nate Burke  wrote:

Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to congress 
for the congressional session, but ran your normal business when not in DC?  It 
wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking will open up a whole hive of 
'then only the rich can afford to run the country'

On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:

More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you get free 
medical.

On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:

Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury duty. Have 
a few professional committee politicians and the rest 'regular people' to get 
the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby summons to report to Congress for 
the next 6 months.

At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress has become 
the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start prying them out of 
the seats and make the seats just another job we are pretty much screwed and 
will get more screwed right until it all falls apart.Â Â  I probably have 
around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see what kills me first.

On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their platform that I 
support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â  But they have to play 
a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to try and 
save their lives while denying they have covid? It really makes me sad how 
easily these people can be manipulated.
Â
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Brian Webster

If you don’t reign in lobbyists citizen votes become less and less value and we 
get the best government money can buy. If they can’t come to compromises then 
maybe that can’t get bills pass period…. Not the worst thing to happen in my 
mind. It’s really pointless to argue this since neither party is going to 
change the status quo, you know because of that power thing. Things will get a 
lot worse before they get better and that might takes 100 years or more, longer 
if people don’t pay attention to history and look at what worked well and what 
didn’t But hey with common core they aren’t going to let the teachers go in to 
stuff like that…. They want us all useful idiots and not have critical thinking 
skills. 

 

Brian 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

 

Lobbying….

 

It’s a tough one, and there are good arguments both ways.Politicians are 
absolutely not experts on much of anything (other then running for election).  
As such they need someone to tell them what they need to be doing.   In an 
ideal world the citizens with expertise in the subjects would be the ones doing 
that - but that is not going to happen.   The experts in any given field 
certainly don’t have the time or inclination to babysit the politicians.   

 

The other bizarre part of politics in Congress now is that it’s so polarized 
that the R’s and D’s often won’t even talk to each other.   The lobbyists have 
become the middleman.I have personally seen lobbyists with a phone in each 
ear with one the D committee staffer and the other the R staffer and he is 
relaying positions and trying to negotiate compromises.   It’s completely 
ridiculous, but it’s the way DC is working these days.

 

If you ban lobbyist I think you are going to get even worse legislation, and 
probably even more polarization.

 

Mark

 

 





On Apr 1, 2022, at 12:40 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:

 

Term limits and the ban on lobbying have to go hand in hand, without that 
former politicians just become lobbyists, kind of like how FCC commissioners do 
now….. They have laws for people like lowly contract negotiators in the Navy 
that forbids them from dealing with any companies they negotiated contracts 
with for 10 years after leaving service.

 

Brian

 

From: AF [ <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 12:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

 

Another big issue is lobbying. I'm pretty much of the opinion that should be 
outlawed, at least in the current form (which is basically bribery).


On Friday, April 1, 2022, Nate Burke < <mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> 
n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:

Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to congress 
for the congressional session, but ran your normal business when not in DC?  It 
wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking will open up a whole hive of 
'then only the rich can afford to run the country'

On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:

More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you get free 
medical.

On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:



Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury duty. Have 
a few professional committee politicians and the rest 'regular people' to get 
the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby summons to report to Congress for 
the next 6 months.


At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress has become 
the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start prying them out of 
the seats and make the seats just another job we are pretty much screwed and 
will get more screwed right until it all falls apart.Â Â  I probably have 
around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see what kills me first.

On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their platform that I 
support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â  But they have to play 
a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to try and 
save their lives while denying they have covid? It really makes me sad how 
easily these people can be manipulated.
Â
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make their 
viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he has been booed 
on stage when he said that.
Â
I would love to be able to vote for some GO

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Mark Radabaugh

Lobbying….

It’s a tough one, and there are good arguments both ways.Politicians are 
absolutely not experts on much of anything (other then running for election).  
As such they need someone to tell them what they need to be doing.   In an 
ideal world the citizens with expertise in the subjects would be the ones doing 
that - but that is not going to happen.   The experts in any given field 
certainly don’t have the time or inclination to babysit the politicians.   

The other bizarre part of politics in Congress now is that it’s so polarized 
that the R’s and D’s often won’t even talk to each other.   The lobbyists have 
become the middleman.I have personally seen lobbyists with a phone in each 
ear with one the D committee staffer and the other the R staffer and he is 
relaying positions and trying to negotiate compromises.   It’s completely 
ridiculous, but it’s the way DC is working these days.

If you ban lobbyist I think you are going to get even worse legislation, and 
probably even more polarization.

Mark



> On Apr 1, 2022, at 12:40 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:
> 
> Term limits and the ban on lobbying have to go hand in hand, without that 
> former politicians just become lobbyists, kind of like how FCC commissioners 
> do now….. They have laws for people like lowly contract negotiators in the 
> Navy that forbids them from dealing with any companies they negotiated 
> contracts with for 10 years after leaving service.
>  
> Brian
>  
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Jason McKemie
> Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 12:27 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
>  
> Another big issue is lobbying. I'm pretty much of the opinion that should be 
> outlawed, at least in the current form (which is basically bribery).
> 
> On Friday, April 1, 2022, Nate Burke  <mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:
> Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to congress 
> for the congressional session, but ran your normal business when not in DC?  
> It wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking will open up a whole 
> hive of 'then only the rich can afford to run the country'
> 
> On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:
> More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
> created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you get 
> free medical.
> 
> On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:
> 
> 
> Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury duty. 
> Have a few professional committee politicians and the rest 'regular people' 
> to get the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby summons to report to 
> Congress for the next 6 months.
> 
> 
> At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:
> 
> The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress has 
> become the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start prying them 
> out of the seats and make the seats just another job we are pretty much 
> screwed and will get more screwed right until it all falls apart.Â Â  I 
> probably have around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see what 
> kills me first.
> 
> On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their platform that I 
> support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
> One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â  But they have to 
> play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â
> Â
> From: Darin Steffl
> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
> To: Chuck McCown
> Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
> Â
> How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to try and 
> save their lives while denying they have covid? It really makes me sad how 
> easily these people can be manipulated.
> Â
> Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make their 
> viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he has been 
> booed on stage when he said that.
> Â
> I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep proving to 
> me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I possibly could. I'm all 
> for moderate politicians and so far, Biden has been fairly moderate and not 
> pandering too much to the far left. And I wish GOP members would stop 
> pandering to the far right beliefs that are killing people with covid and 
> causing them to storm the capitol because they think the election was stolen. 
> Obviously, it was not. I'm firmly against any politician that shows they're 
> anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 so it's time to let people love who they love without 
> hating on them.
> Â
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Brian Webster

Term limits and the ban on lobbying have to go hand in hand, without that 
former politicians just become lobbyists, kind of like how FCC commissioners do 
now….. They have laws for people like lowly contract negotiators in the Navy 
that forbids them from dealing with any companies they negotiated contracts 
with for 10 years after leaving service.

 

Brian

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 12:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

 

Another big issue is lobbying. I'm pretty much of the opinion that should be 
outlawed, at least in the current form (which is basically bribery).


On Friday, April 1, 2022, Nate Burke  wrote:

Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to congress 
for the congressional session, but ran your normal business when not in DC?  It 
wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking will open up a whole hive of 
'then only the rich can afford to run the country'

On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:

More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you get free 
medical.

On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:



Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury duty. Have 
a few professional committee politicians and the rest 'regular people' to get 
the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby summons to report to Congress for 
the next 6 months.


At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress has become 
the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start prying them out of 
the seats and make the seats just another job we are pretty much screwed and 
will get more screwed right until it all falls apart.Â Â  I probably have 
around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see what kills me first.

On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their platform that I 
support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â  But they have to play 
a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to try and 
save their lives while denying they have covid? It really makes me sad how 
easily these people can be manipulated.
Â
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make their 
viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he has been booed 
on stage when he said that.
Â
I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep proving to 
me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I possibly could. I'm all 
for moderate politicians and so far, Biden has been fairly moderate and not 
pandering too much to the far left. And I wish GOP members would stop pandering 
to the far right beliefs that are killing people with covid and causing them to 
storm the capitol because they think the election was stolen. Obviously, it was 
not. I'm firmly against any politician that shows they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 
so it's time to let people love who they love without hating on them.
Â
Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in their party 
like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, and some other crazy lady 
who dropped out of highschool. All they do is spew hate and don't actually 
legislate.
Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.Â
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave them the IV 
treatment.Â
Â
She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging for 
treatment.Â
And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to actual data 
unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and that somehow their 
favorite far right TV personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors 
and Scientists.
Â
Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 times and 
they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid because they had 
natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! Did they admit they were 
wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x 
worse than admit fault and do the right thing.
Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
Utah.Â
Yeah, you donâ€™t need no stinking vax.Â
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
Â
I might even go to a movie for the first tim

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Jason McKemie

Another big issue is lobbying. I'm pretty much of the opinion that should
be outlawed, at least in the current form (which is basically bribery).

On Friday, April 1, 2022, Nate Burke  wrote:

> Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to
> congress for the congressional session, but ran your normal business when
> not in DC?  It wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking will open
> up a whole hive of 'then only the rich can afford to run the country'
>
> On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:
>
>> More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have
>> created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you get
>> free medical.
>>
>> On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury
>>> duty. Have a few professional committee politicians and the rest 'regular
>>> people' to get the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby summons to
>>> report to Congress for the next 6 months.
>>>
>>>
>>> At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:
>>>
>>> The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress has
>>>> become the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start prying
>>>> them out of the seats and make the seats just another job we are pretty
>>>> much screwed and will get more screwed right until it all falls apart.Â Â
>>>> I probably have around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see
>>>> what kills me first.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their platform
>>>>> that I support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
>>>>> One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â  But they have
>>>>> to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â
>>>>> Â
>>>>> From: Darin Steffl
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
>>>>> To: Chuck McCown
>>>>> Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
>>>>> Â
>>>>> How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to
>>>>> try and save their lives while denying they have covid? It really makes me
>>>>> sad how easily these people can be manipulated.
>>>>> Â
>>>>> Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make
>>>>> their viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he has
>>>>> been booed on stage when he said that.
>>>>> Â
>>>>> I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep
>>>>> proving to me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I possibly
>>>>> could. I'm all for moderate politicians and so far, Biden has been fairly
>>>>> moderate and not pandering too much to the far left. And I wish GOP 
>>>>> members
>>>>> would stop pandering to the far right beliefs that are killing people with
>>>>> covid and causing them to storm the capitol because they think the 
>>>>> election
>>>>> was stolen. Obviously, it was not. I'm firmly against any politician that
>>>>> shows they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 so it's time to let people love who
>>>>> they love without hating on them.
>>>>> Â
>>>>> Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in
>>>>> their party like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, and some
>>>>> other crazy lady who dropped out of highschool. All they do is spew hate
>>>>> and don't actually legislate.
>>>>> Â
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>>> We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.Â
>>>>> My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave them
>>>>> the IV treatment.Â
>>>>> Â
>>>>> She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging for
>>>>> treatment.Â
>>>>> And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.Â
>>>>> Â
>>>>> From: Darin Steffl
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> Cc: Chuck McCown
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Politic

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Nate Burke

Forgive my History, but isn't that how it 'used' to be?  You went to 
congress for the congressional session, but ran your normal business 
when not in DC?  It wasn't your full time job.  Although that thinking 
will open up a whole hive of 'then only the rich can afford to run the 
country'


On 4/1/2022 8:36 AM, Robert wrote:
More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you 
get free medical.


On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:



Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury 
duty. Have a few professional committee politicians and the rest 
'regular people' to get the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby 
summons to report to Congress for the next 6 months.



At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress 
has become the golden ticket.Â Until we figure out some way to start 
prying them out of the seats and make the seats just another job we 
are pretty much screwed and will get more screwed right until it all 
falls apart.Â Â  I probably have around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna 
be interesting to see what kills me first.


On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their 
platform that I support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â  But they 
have to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â

Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment 
to try and save their lives while denying they have covid? It 
really makes me sad how easily these people can be manipulated.

Â
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make 
their viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and 
he has been booed on stage when he said that.

Â
I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep 
proving to me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I 
possibly could. I'm all for moderate politicians and so far, Biden 
has been fairly moderate and not pandering too much to the far 
left. And I wish GOP members would stop pandering to the far right 
beliefs that are killing people with covid and causing them to 
storm the capitol because they think the election was stolen. 
Obviously, it was not. I'm firmly against any politician that shows 
they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 so it's time to let people love who 
they love without hating on them.

Â
Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in 
their party like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, 
and some other crazy lady who dropped out of highschool. All they 
do is spew hate and don't actually legislate.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.Â
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave 
them the IV treatment.Â

Â
She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging 
for treatment.Â

And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to 
actual data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, 
and that somehow their favorite far right TV personalities or 
podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors and Scientists.

Â
Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 
2-3 times and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get 
Covid because they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out for 
them?!?! Did they admit they were wrong? Of course not because 
they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x worse than admit 
fault and do the right thing.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

Utah.Â
Yeah, you donâ€™t need no stinking vax.Â
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
Â
I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.Â But I am 
a greenie...

Â
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Â
Â
--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
<http://www.mnwifi.com/>www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>Like us on Facebook



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com









--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread Robert

More like 2 years, but that would be a better system than what we have 
created...  Maybe you don't have to pay taxes those two years and you 
get free medical.


On 4/1/22 5:30 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:



Maybe being a representative in Congress should work more like jury 
duty. Have a few professional committee politicians and the rest 
'regular people' to get the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you are hereby 
summons to report to Congress for the next 6 months.



At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"Â Â  Congress 
has become the golden ticket.Â  Until we figure out some way to start 
prying them out of the seats and make the seats just another job we 
are pretty much screwed and will get more screwed right until it all 
falls apart.Â Â  I probably have around 20 years left.Â  It's gonna 
be interesting to see what kills me first.


On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have planks in their 
platform that I support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.Â  But they 
have to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â

Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to 
try and save their lives while denying they have covid? It really 
makes me sad how easily these people can be manipulated.

Â
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make 
their viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and 
he has been booed on stage when he said that.

Â
I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep 
proving to me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I 
possibly could. I'm all for moderate politicians and so far, Biden 
has been fairly moderate and not pandering too much to the far left. 
And I wish GOP members would stop pandering to the far right beliefs 
that are killing people with covid and causing them to storm the 
capitol because they think the election was stolen. Obviously, it 
was not. I'm firmly against any politician that shows they're 
anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 so it's time to let people love who they love 
without hating on them.

Â
Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in 
their party like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, and 
some other crazy lady who dropped out of highschool. All they do is 
spew hate and don't actually legislate.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.Â
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave them 
the IV treatment.Â

Â
She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging 
for treatment.Â

And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to 
actual data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and 
that somehow their favorite far right TV personalities or podcast 
hosts are smarter than Doctors and Scientists.

Â
Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 
2-3 times and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get 
Covid because they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out for 
them?!?! Did they admit they were wrong? Of course not because 
they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x worse than admit 
fault and do the right thing.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

Utah.Â
Yeah, you donâ€™t need no stinking vax.Â
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
Â
I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.Â But I am 
a greenie...

Â
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Â
Â
--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
<http://www.mnwifi.com/>www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>Like us on Facebook



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-04-01 Thread D. Bernardi





Maybe being a representative in Congress should 
work more like jury duty. Have a few professional 
committee politicians and the rest 'regular 
people' to get the job done.  Dear Mr Jones, you 
are hereby summons to report to Congress for the next 6 months.



At 06:32 PM 3/31/2022, you wrote:

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their 
Jobs"Â Â  Congress has become the golden 
ticket.Â  Until we figure out some way to start 
prying them out of the seats and make the seats 
just another job we are pretty much screwed and 
will get more screwed right until it all falls 
apart.Â Â  I probably have around 20 years 
left.Â  It's gonna be interesting to see what kills me first.


On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Partisan politics sucks.Â  Both parties have 
planks in their platform that I support.Â  Both have repugnant policy goals.Â
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of 
congress.Â  But they have to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.Â

Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the 
covid IV treatment to try and save their lives 
while denying they have covid? It really makes 
me sad how easily these people can be manipulated.

Â
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully 
vaccinated yet they make their viewers question 
the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he 
has been booed on stage when he said that.

Â
I would love to be able to vote for some GOP 
members but they keep proving to me they're so 
far off the deep end, I don't see how I 
possibly could. I'm all for moderate 
politicians and so far, Biden has been fairly 
moderate and not pandering too much to the far 
left. And I wish GOP members would stop 
pandering to the far right beliefs that are 
killing people with covid and causing them to 
storm the capitol because they think the 
election was stolen. Obviously, it was not. I'm 
firmly against any politician that shows 
they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 so it's time to 
let people love who they love without hating on them.

Â
Republicans need to do a better job standing up 
to the nut jobs in their party like trump, 
Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, and 
some other crazy lady who dropped out of 
highschool. All they do is spew hate and don't actually legislate.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.Â
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic 
where they gave them the IV treatment.Â

Â
She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day 
long every day begging for treatment.Â

And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.Â
Â
From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Â
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers 
are all ignorant to actual data unfortunately. 
They believe science is fake, rigged, and that 
somehow their favorite far right TV 
personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors and Scientists.

Â
Greenie here and I know more than a few people 
who have had Covid 2-3 times and they screamed 
the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid 
because they had natural immunity. How'd that 
turn out for them?!?! Did they admit they were 
wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig 
their heels in and be wrong 10x worse than admit fault and do the right thing.

Â
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
Utah.Â
Yeah, you donât need no stinking vax.Â
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
Â
I might even go to a movie for the first time 
in 2 years.Â  But I am a greenie...

Â
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Â
Â
--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
<http://www.mnwifi.com/>www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>Like us on Facebook



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Robert

The operative words in that are "Hold onto their Jobs"   Congress has 
become the golden ticket.  Until we figure out some way to start prying 
them out of the seats and make the seats just another job we are pretty 
much screwed and will get more screwed right until it all falls apart.   
I probably have around 20 years left.  It's gonna be interesting to see 
what kills me first.


On 3/31/22 9:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Partisan politics sucks.  Both parties have planks in their platform 
that I support.  Both have repugnant policy goals.
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress. But they have 
to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs.

*From:* Darin Steffl
*Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to 
try and save their lives while denying they have covid? It really 
makes me sad how easily these people can be manipulated.
Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make 
their viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he 
has been booed on stage when he said that.
I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep 
proving to me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I 
possibly could. I'm all for moderate politicians and so far, Biden has 
been fairly moderate and not pandering too much to the far left. And I 
wish GOP members would stop pandering to the far right beliefs that 
are killing people with covid and causing them to storm the capitol 
because they think the election was stolen. Obviously, it was not. I'm 
firmly against any politician that shows they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 
so it's time to let people love who they love without hating on them.
Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in 
their party like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, and 
some other crazy lady who dropped out of highschool. All they do is 
spew hate and don't actually legislate.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave
them the IV treatment.
She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging
for treatment.
And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.
*From:* Darin Steffl
*Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant
to actual data unfortunately. They believe science is fake,
rigged, and that somehow their favorite far right TV personalities
or podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors and Scientists.
Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid
2-3 times and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't
get Covid because they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out
for them?!?! Did they admit they were wrong? Of course not because
they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x worse than admit
fault and do the right thing.
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

Utah.
Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But
I am a greenie...
image
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Robert

I lost a cluster of 4 customers that were all anti-vax, one couple was a 
repeater site, really nice people. The neighbors are still anti-vax 
swearing that more people are dying of the vaccination than the people 
from Covid..  Basically I feel like I am watching another version of 
Lost Boys...


On 3/31/22 9:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave them 
the IV treatment.
She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging for 
treatment.

And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.
*From:* Darin Steffl
*Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to 
actual data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and 
that somehow their favorite far right TV personalities or podcast 
hosts are smarter than Doctors and Scientists.
Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 
times and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid 
because they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! 
Did they admit they were wrong? Of course not because they'd rather 
dig their heels in and be wrong 10x worse than admit fault and do the 
right thing.
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


Utah.
Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I
am a greenie...
image
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Brian Webster

I would agree. When you look at issue by issue, the public tends to be more 
united than not. More united on ways to deal with problems. You know most folks 
if you take the party out of the issue, they can come to common ground.

 

“But they have to play a mean game to hold onto their jobs. “ Oh man this is so 
true. They need the votes but they typically don’t care about those when it 
comes to money, PAC’s and donors are who they pander to.

 

There is no money in solving the problem. You can’t fix things and keep people 
scared enough to keep giving you money. Good example, the wall and immigration. 
You worried about too many illegals and building the wall? These same 
politicians arguing about this also have the power to change immigration laws 
and quotas. Raise the quotas and change the requirements to become a citizen 
and people no longer are called illegals. But that solves a problem and we 
can’t have that. Another case in point, flat tax. Flat tax doesn’t create 
winters and losers so if it’s complex tax code, people are always coming to you 
to win favor by altering the tax code. Politicians have power this way. Simple 
does not create power. All politicians I believe are narcissists for this 
reason. They thrive on having some level of power. Why do you think they don’t 
have terms limits, or have crazy campaign laws that allow to keep campaign 
funds when they no longer intend to run….. Why if you only have to be in 
congress for 6 years, you can retire with the same pay as in office and have 
full health insurance? Only 6 years, why do you stay longer? Because they love 
power and staying longer builds more power.

 

Brian

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 12:45 PM
To: Darin Steffl
Cc: Chuck McCown; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

 

Partisan politics sucks.  Both parties have planks in their platform that I 
support.  Both have repugnant policy goals.  

One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.  But they have to play a 
mean game to hold onto their jobs.  

 

From: Darin Steffl 

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM

To: Chuck McCown 

Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

 

How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to try and 
save their lives while denying they have covid? It really makes me sad how 
easily these people can be manipulated. 

 

Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make their 
viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he has been booed 
on stage when he said that.

 

I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep proving to 
me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I possibly could. I'm all 
for moderate politicians and so far, Biden has been fairly moderate and not 
pandering too much to the far left. And I wish GOP members would stop pandering 
to the far right beliefs that are killing people with covid and causing them to 
storm the capitol because they think the election was stolen. Obviously, it was 
not. I'm firmly against any politician that shows they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 
so it's time to let people love who they love without hating on them.

 

Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in their party 
like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, and some other crazy lady 
who dropped out of highschool. All they do is spew hate and don't actually 
legislate. 

 

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.  

My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave them the IV 
treatment.  

 

She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging for 
treatment.  

And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.  

 

From: Darin Steffl 

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

 

Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to actual data 
unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and that somehow their 
favorite far right TV personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors 
and Scientists. 

 

Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 times and 
they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid because they had 
natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! Did they admit they were 
wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x 
worse than admit fault and do the right thing.

 

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Utah.  

Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.  

(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)

 

I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I am a greenie...

 

 image 

 

-- 
AF maili

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Partisan politics sucks.  Both parties have planks in their platform that I 
support.  Both have repugnant policy goals.  
One on one I enjoyed my time with members of congress.  But they have to play a 
mean game to hold onto their jobs.  

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

How brainwashed do they need to be to want the covid IV treatment to try and 
save their lives while denying they have covid? It really makes me sad how 
easily these people can be manipulated. 

Pretty much all fox "news" hosts are fully vaccinated yet they make their 
viewers question the vaccine. Trump is vaxxed and boosted and he has been booed 
on stage when he said that.

I would love to be able to vote for some GOP members but they keep proving to 
me they're so far off the deep end, I don't see how I possibly could. I'm all 
for moderate politicians and so far, Biden has been fairly moderate and not 
pandering too much to the far left. And I wish GOP members would stop pandering 
to the far right beliefs that are killing people with covid and causing them to 
storm the capitol because they think the election was stolen. Obviously, it was 
not. I'm firmly against any politician that shows they're anti-lgbtq. It's 2022 
so it's time to let people love who they love without hating on them.

Republicans need to do a better job standing up to the nut jobs in their party 
like trump, Madison cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, and some other crazy lady 
who dropped out of highschool. All they do is spew hate and don't actually 
legislate. 

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.  
  My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave them the IV 
treatment.  

  She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging for 
treatment.  
  And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.  

  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

  Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to actual 
data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and that somehow 
their favorite far right TV personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than 
Doctors and Scientists. 

  Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 times 
and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid because they 
had natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! Did they admit they were 
wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x 
worse than admit fault and do the right thing.

  On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Utah.  
Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.  
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)

I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I am a 
greenie...

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
  Like us on Facebook-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

We buried some anti vaxers in our neighborhood.  
My daughter in law worked at an infusion clinic where they gave them the IV 
treatment.  

She saw very frightened anti vaxers all day long every day begging for 
treatment.  
And some begging for treatment while denying it was covid.  

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to actual data 
unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and that somehow their 
favorite far right TV personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than Doctors 
and Scientists. 

Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 times and 
they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid because they had 
natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! Did they admit they were 
wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig their heels in and be wrong 10x 
worse than admit fault and do the right thing.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Utah.  
  Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.  
  (Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)

  I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I am a 
greenie...


  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Nate Burke

I know a guy like that.  You're not looking at the 'Real' data.  The 
real data shows that this was no different than a normal Flu year, and 
that the world has just lost it's mind.  There's this one Doctor in 
rural Colorado who has the real data, but nobody is listening to him, 
the liberal media is just focusing on the 1's of other doctors who 
don't know one end of the stethoscope from the other.


On 3/31/2022 11:19 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to 
actual data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and 
that somehow their favorite far right TV personalities or podcast 
hosts are smarter than Doctors and Scientists.


Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 
times and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid 
because they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! 
Did they admit they were wrong? Of course not because they'd rather 
dig their heels in and be wrong 10x worse than admit fault and do the 
right thing.


On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


Utah.
Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.
(Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I
am a greenie...
image
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Josh Luthman

No way the booster all but eliminated deaths?!

Are there even any good movies..?

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:05 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Utah.
> Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.
> (Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
>
> I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I am a
> greenie...
>
> [image: image]
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

2022-03-31 Thread Darin Steffl

Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to actual
data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and that somehow
their favorite far right TV personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than
Doctors and Scientists.

Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 times
and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid because
they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! Did they admit
they were wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig their heels in and
be wrong 10x worse than admit fault and do the right thing.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Utah.
> Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.
> (Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
>
> I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I am a
> greenie...
>
> [image: image]
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>

-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: political fun

2021-08-14 Thread Jaime Solorza

The whole world laughed.. including me...

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 1:54 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Worth a listen:
> https://youtu.be/_1h6DEHvig4
>
> Makes one wonder what happened.  Got into the wrong kind of kool-aid I
> guess.
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: political fun
>
> Update...
>
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 10:00 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, but I did wait all day yesterday for this to happen.  Not sure,
>> but I don’t think it did...
>>
>>
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: political fun

2021-08-14 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Worth a listen:
https://youtu.be/_1h6DEHvig4

Makes one wonder what happened.  Got into the wrong kind of kool-aid I guess.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: political fun

Update...

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 10:00 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Sorry, but I did wait all day yesterday for this to happen.  Not sure, but I 
don’t think it did...

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

2021-01-04 Thread Steve Jones

I wish they hadnt used water cannons on the civil rights protesters back in
the day and ruined it for us today

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 9:33 AM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Use water cannons with die in them, then go around and arrest anyone with
> that color die on them  heheehe .  I think china did this. .
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> * Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>
> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>
> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> *How did we do today?*
>
> [image: Gold Star]
> <https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=5badbac1_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MSZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>[image:
> Green Light]
> <https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=675abe04_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MiZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>[image:
> Yellow Light]
> <https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=e42b48a5_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MyZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>[image:
> Red Light]
> <https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=ecaadcd3_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9NCZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2021 2:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
>
>
> Portland, Seattle, etc and all the other leftist ilk are prime examples of
> the circle, hard time breed strong men, strong men breed good times, etc.
> The Pacific northwest was a rugged, harsh area to "tame". It took men of
> stature and stamina to build the oasis in the wilderness that the weak
> populated under the protection of the strong. Natural selection was
> defeated, and sadly that is the fault of the strong. Hopefully nature will
> correct itself and eventually the weak bloodlines will be culled from the
> herd. It's never been sustainable to maintain the presence of the weak. By
> weak I dont mean meek, they inherit the earth and are treasures, I mean
> weak, in spirit, strength and mind. They are the epitome of biting the hand
> that feeds you. Cancers like this are allowed to fester and this is the
> result, they believe they own the hand and are entitled to bite it.
>
> This is why we have cataclysmic comets. It's a sad natural truth though
> that the nature of the strong is to always uplift the weak. Its natures
> dirty trick. The weak dont want to be uplifted, they believe the
> outstretched hand is there to hold them, not to move them. Eventually the
> hand gets tired.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 12:32 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Part of as-trophys-ics?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 11:57 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
> What are trophy's?  I wonder how the apostrophe got in there.
> trophys  oh, I see.  Autocorrect did it.  I should typed trophies as the
> plural.
> I guess trophys is not a word.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
> Today:
> "If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
> force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
> Police said.
>
> September 10:
> Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
> released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
> gas for crowd control.
>
> What changed?
> Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?
>
> I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
> The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
> But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?
>
> Public spankings.
> Were these kids not breast fed?
> Perhaps too many participation trophy's?
>
> In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

2021-01-04 Thread Dennis Burgess

Use water cannons with die in them, then go around and arrest anyone with that 
color die on them  heheehe .  I think china did this. .


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless Engineer, 
Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security Engineer, 
Enterprise Wireless Engineer
Hurricane Electric: IPv6 Sage Level
Cambium: ePMP

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net<http://www.linktechs.net/>
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
How did we do today?
[Gold 
Star]<https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=5badbac1_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MSZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>[Green
 
Light]<https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=675abe04_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MiZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>[Yellow
 
Light]<https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=e42b48a5_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MyZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>[Red
 
Light]<https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=ecaadcd3_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9NCZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===>

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 2:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

Portland, Seattle, etc and all the other leftist ilk are prime examples of the 
circle, hard time breed strong men, strong men breed good times, etc. The 
Pacific northwest was a rugged, harsh area to "tame". It took men of stature 
and stamina to build the oasis in the wilderness that the weak populated under 
the protection of the strong. Natural selection was defeated, and sadly that is 
the fault of the strong. Hopefully nature will correct itself and eventually 
the weak bloodlines will be culled from the herd. It's never been sustainable 
to maintain the presence of the weak. By weak I dont mean meek, they inherit 
the earth and are treasures, I mean weak, in spirit, strength and mind. They 
are the epitome of biting the hand that feeds you. Cancers like this are 
allowed to fester and this is the result, they believe they own the hand and 
are entitled to bite it.
This is why we have cataclysmic comets. It's a sad natural truth though that 
the nature of the strong is to always uplift the weak. Its natures dirty trick. 
The weak dont want to be uplifted, they believe the outstretched hand is there 
to hold them, not to move them. Eventually the hand gets tired.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 12:32 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Part of as-trophys-ics?

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 11:57 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com<mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

What are trophy's?  I wonder how the apostrophe got in there.
trophys  oh, I see.  Autocorrect did it.  I should typed trophies as the
plural.
I guess trophys is not a word.


-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com<mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

Today:
"If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
Police said.

September 10:
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
gas for crowd control.

What changed?
Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?

I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?

Public spankings.
Were these kids not breast fed?
Perhaps too many participation trophy's?

In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
issue a stern warning.
Meanwhile in other parts of the country, you have a cell phone in your
hand - you get shot by the cops.

Maybe we need police exchange programs.
Send the cops with itchy trigger fingers to do duty in Portland and Seattle.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.af

Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

2021-01-01 Thread Steve Jones

Portland, Seattle, etc and all the other leftist ilk are prime examples of
the circle, hard time breed strong men, strong men breed good times, etc.
The Pacific northwest was a rugged, harsh area to "tame". It took men of
stature and stamina to build the oasis in the wilderness that the weak
populated under the protection of the strong. Natural selection was
defeated, and sadly that is the fault of the strong. Hopefully nature will
correct itself and eventually the weak bloodlines will be culled from the
herd. It's never been sustainable to maintain the presence of the weak. By
weak I dont mean meek, they inherit the earth and are treasures, I mean
weak, in spirit, strength and mind. They are the epitome of biting the hand
that feeds you. Cancers like this are allowed to fester and this is the
result, they believe they own the hand and are entitled to bite it.
This is why we have cataclysmic comets. It's a sad natural truth though
that the nature of the strong is to always uplift the weak. Its natures
dirty trick. The weak dont want to be uplifted, they believe the
outstretched hand is there to hold them, not to move them. Eventually the
hand gets tired.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 12:32 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Part of as-trophys-ics?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 11:57 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
> What are trophy's?  I wonder how the apostrophe got in there.
> trophys  oh, I see.  Autocorrect did it.  I should typed trophies as the
> plural.
> I guess trophys is not a word.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
> Today:
> "If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
> force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
> Police said.
>
> September 10:
> Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
> released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
> gas for crowd control.
>
> What changed?
> Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?
>
> I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
> The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
> But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?
>
> Public spankings.
> Were these kids not breast fed?
> Perhaps too many participation trophy's?
>
> In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
> issue a stern warning.
> Meanwhile in other parts of the country, you have a cell phone in your
> hand - you get shot by the cops.
>
> Maybe we need police exchange programs.
> Send the cops with itchy trigger fingers to do duty in Portland and
> Seattle.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

2021-01-01 Thread Ken Hohhof

Part of as-trophys-ics?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 11:57 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

What are trophy's?  I wonder how the apostrophe got in there.
trophys  oh, I see.  Autocorrect did it.  I should typed trophies as the
plural.
I guess trophys is not a word.

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

Today:
"If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
Police said.

September 10:
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
gas for crowd control.

What changed?
Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?

I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?

Public spankings.
Were these kids not breast fed?
Perhaps too many participation trophy's?

In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
issue a stern warning.
Meanwhile in other parts of the country, you have a cell phone in your
hand - you get shot by the cops.

Maybe we need police exchange programs.
Send the cops with itchy trigger fingers to do duty in Portland and Seattle.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

2021-01-01 Thread Chuck McCown via AF


What are trophy's?  I wonder how the apostrophe got in there.
trophys  oh, I see.  Autocorrect did it.  I should typed trophies as the 
plural.

I guess trophys is not a word.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown via AF

Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

Today:
"If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
Police said.

September 10:
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
gas for crowd control.

What changed?
Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?

I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?

Public spankings.
Were these kids not breast fed?
Perhaps too many participation trophy's?

In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
issue a stern warning.
Meanwhile in other parts of the country, you have a cell phone in your
hand - you get shot by the cops.

Maybe we need police exchange programs.
Send the cops with itchy trigger fingers to do duty in Portland and Seattle.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

2021-01-01 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Do they have firehoses in Portland?

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown via AF

Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

Today:
"If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
Police said.

September 10:
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
gas for crowd control.

What changed?
Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?

I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?

Public spankings.
Were these kids not breast fed?
Perhaps too many participation trophy's?

In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
issue a stern warning.
Meanwhile in other parts of the country, you have a cell phone in your
hand - you get shot by the cops.

Maybe we need police exchange programs.
Send the cops with itchy trigger fingers to do duty in Portland and Seattle.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread Cameron Crum

In TX if their job opens back up and they refuse to go back, they lose
unemployment. But yes, the $600 is on top of the regular unemployment they
get from the state.

Cameron

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:05 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Yikes.  Gotta remember to stay away from Australia next year!
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:05 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this
>
>
>
> Remember, Mad Max happens in 2021...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry Smith
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this
>
> And to stir the pot a little:
>
> Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
> which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
> squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
> that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?
> >
> > Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
> > little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell
> > cheap
> > silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a
> month
> > for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
> > everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
> > she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the
> > $600
> > a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they
> > opened
> > and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
> > refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that
> is
> > a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
> > that. I know I would have.
> >
> > A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
> > suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go
> > back
> > to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
> > else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
> > somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson <
> cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> > > state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more
> > > and
> > > less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar
> > > rates.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> > >> level. State by state varies. I think your numbers are assuming it
> > >> isn't taxed?
> > >>
> > >> Yale did a study on this.
> > >>
> > >> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> > >> (2,000K)
> > >>
> > >> <
> https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2=65db33fe01=0.1
> > >>=msg-a:r4257579253290864261=att=safe=f_kdixrue20>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
> > >>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire... but I want to know:
> > >>>
> > >>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits. I work hard to
> > >>> prevent those getting charged to me. But I know that the rates paid
> > >>> are $496/week max. That is Utah.
> > >>> So $12.40/hour take home. Equivalent to much more gross. Probably in
> > >>> the $17/hour range gross.
> > >>>
> > >>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top
> > >>> of
> > >>> that? $1096/week? $56,992 annual rate. Take home. Equivalent to
> > >>> perhaps $80K gross?
> > >>>
> > >>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at
> > >>> home,
> > >>> why would they want to work? The press and libs in congress have been
> > >>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package
> is
> > >>> an incentive to not try to work. I believe t

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread James Howard

Yikes.  Gotta remember to stay away from Australia next year!

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

Remember, Mad Max happens in 2021...

-Original Message-
From: Larry Smith
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

And to stir the pot a little:

Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.

--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net<mailto:lesm...@ecsis.net>

On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?
>
> Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
> little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell
> cheap
> silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
> for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
> everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
> she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the
> $600
> a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they
> opened
> and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
> refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
> a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
> that. I know I would have.
>
> A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
> suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go
> back
> to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
> else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
> somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 
> <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com%3e>
>
> wrote:
> > I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> > state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more
> > and
> > less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar
> > rates.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> > <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com%3e>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> >> level. State by state varies. I think your numbers are assuming it
> >> isn't taxed?
> >>
> >> Yale did a study on this.
> >>
> >> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> >> (2,000K)
> >>
> >> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2=65db33fe01=0.1
> >>=msg-a:r4257579253290864261=att=safe=f_kdixrue20>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM 
> >> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> wrote:
> >>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire... but I want to know:
> >>>
> >>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits. I work hard to
> >>> prevent those getting charged to me. But I know that the rates paid
> >>> are $496/week max. That is Utah.
> >>> So $12.40/hour take home. Equivalent to much more gross. Probably in
> >>> the $17/hour range gross.
> >>>
> >>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top
> >>> of
> >>> that? $1096/week? $56,992 annual rate. Take home. Equivalent to
> >>> perhaps $80K gross?
> >>>
> >>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at
> >>> home,
> >>> why would they want to work? The press and libs in congress have been
> >>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is
> >>> an incentive to not try to work. I believe that to be true. Why
> >>> would
> >>> anyone work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video
> >>> games?
> >>>
> >>> Do I have this right? Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
> >>>
> >>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college. He
> >>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much. Had roommates. Had a part
> >>> time job. Never asked me for money.
> >>> --
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread chuck

Remember, Mad Max happens in 2021...

-Original Message- 
From: Larry Smith

Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

And to stir the pot a little:

Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.

--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:

A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?

Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell 
cheap

silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the 
$600
a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they 
opened

and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
that. I know I would have.

A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go 
back

to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 

wrote:
> I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more 
> and
> less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar 
> rates.

>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> 
>
> wrote:
>> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
>> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it
>> isn't taxed?
>>
>> Yale did a study on this.
>>
>> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
>> (2,000K)
>>
>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2=65db33fe01=0.1
>>=msg-a:r4257579253290864261=att=safe=f_kdixrue20>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>>
>>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
>>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid
>>> are $496/week max.  That is Utah.
>>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>>
>>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top 
>>> of

>>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to
>>> perhaps $80K gross?
>>>
>>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at 
>>> home,

>>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is
>>> an incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why 
>>> would

>>> anyone work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video
>>> games?
>>>
>>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>>
>>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part
>>> time job.  Never asked me for money.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread Larry Smith

And to stir the pot a little:

Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?
>
> Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
> little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell cheap
> silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
> for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
> everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
> she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the $600
> a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they opened
> and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
> refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
> a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
> that. I know I would have.
>
> A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
> suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go back
> to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
> else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
> somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 
>
> wrote:
> > I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> > state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
> > less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> >> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it
> >> isn't taxed?
> >>
> >> Yale did a study on this.
> >>
> >> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> >> (2,000K)
> >>
> >>  >>=msg-a:r4257579253290864261=att=safe=f_kdixrue20>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
> >>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
> >>>
> >>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
> >>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid
> >>> are $496/week max.  That is Utah.
> >>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
> >>> the $17/hour range gross.
> >>>
> >>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
> >>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to
> >>> perhaps $80K gross?
> >>>
> >>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
> >>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
> >>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is
> >>> an incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would
> >>> anyone work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video
> >>> games?
> >>>
> >>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
> >>>
> >>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
> >>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part
> >>> time job.  Never asked me for money.
> >>> --
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread Lewis Bergman

The rules are different in every state. I bet it drives those national
companies crazy or costs them a load to keep up with the rules in software.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:28 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Every state is different, and many states have already gone off the end of
> unemployment. Add to that, that a lot of people couldn't get unemployment
> and/or are still waiting for their first check. I don't commit the
> different state unemployment rules to memory, but some states (Missouri?
> Florida?) have very short duration for unemployment, and their
> weekly/monthly payment rate is way below that.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 8/6/2020 8:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Still taxed or not, that is a very sweet deal in my opinion.  You could
> save up enough to not work for several years at that rate.  This assumes
> you live in a van down by the river and eat ramen at every meal.
>
> *From:* Carl Peterson
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:15 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this
>
> I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
> less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
>> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't
>> taxed?
>>
>> Yale did a study on this.
>>
>> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
>> (2,000K)
>>
>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2=65db33fe01=0.1=msg-a:r4257579253290864261=att=safe=f_kdixrue20>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>>
>>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
>>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are
>>> $496/week max.  That is Utah.
>>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>>
>>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
>>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
>>> $80K gross?
>>>
>>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
>>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an
>>> incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone
>>> work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video games?
>>>
>>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>>
>>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
>>> job.  Never asked me for money.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread Lewis Bergman

A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?

Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell cheap
silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the $600
a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they opened
and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
that. I know I would have.

A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go back
to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
> less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
>> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't
>> taxed?
>>
>> Yale did a study on this.
>>
>> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
>> (2,000K)
>>
>> 
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>>
>>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
>>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are
>>> $496/week max.  That is Utah.
>>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>>
>>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
>>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
>>> $80K gross?
>>>
>>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
>>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an
>>> incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone
>>> work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video games?
>>>
>>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>>
>>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
>>> job.  Never asked me for money.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>

-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Every state is different, and many states have already gone off
  the end of unemployment. Add to that, that a lot of people
  couldn't get unemployment and/or are still waiting for their first
  check. I don't commit the different state unemployment rules to
  memory, but some states (Missouri? Florida?) have very short
  duration for unemployment, and their weekly/monthly payment rate
  is way below that.


bp



On 8/6/2020 8:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Still taxed or not, that is a very sweet deal in my
opinion.  You could save up enough to not work for several
years at that rate.  This assumes you live in a van down by
the river and eat ramen at every meal.  
  

   
  
From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I
  should probably not post this
  

 
  
  

  I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on
it is that since UI varies by state etc you can compare
return to work rates for people making more and less
then they used to and it seems they return to work at
similar rates.  
   
  
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at
  10:10 AM Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
  wrote:


  
Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary
  income at the federal level.  State by state
  varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it
  isn't taxed?  
 
Yale did a study on this.  
 

CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
(2,000K)
  
 

  On Thu, Aug 6,
2020 at 9:59 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:
  
  

  

  But at the risk of starting another
brush fire...  but I want to know:
   
  People laid of in Utah get
unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
prevent those getting charged to me. 
But I know that the rates paid are
$496/week max.  That is Utah.  
  So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent
to much more gross.  Probably in the
$17/hour range gross.
   
  Then if I understand it right, the
feds were adding $600/week on top of
that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual
rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
$80K gross?
   
  So a laid off bartender gets the
equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
why would they want to work?  The press
and libs in congress have been freaking
out about the conservatives saying the
fat benefit package is an incentive to
not try to work.  I believe that to be
true.  Why would anyone work if they get
that much for drinking beer and playing
video games?  
   
  Do I have this right?  Does the fed
benefit add to the state benefit?
   
  I have a son that lived on
$1000/month for years while in college. 
He said he didn’t feel the pinch too
much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
job.  Never asked me for money.  

  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread chuck

Still taxed or not, that is a very sweet deal in my opinion.  You could save up 
enough to not work for several years at that rate.  This assumes you live in a 
van down by the river and eat ramen at every meal.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by state 
etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and less then 
they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.  

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson  
wrote:

  Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal level.  
State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't taxed?  

  Yale did a study on this.  

  CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
  (2,000K)

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:

But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:

People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent 
those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week max. 
 That is Utah.  
So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in the 
$17/hour range gross.

Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of 
that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps 
$80K gross?

So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home, why 
would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been freaking out 
about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an incentive to not 
try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone work if they get 
that much for drinking beer and playing video games?  

Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?

I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He said 
he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time job.  Never 
asked me for money.  
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread Carl Peterson

I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't
> taxed?
>
> Yale did a study on this.
>
> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> (2,000K)
>
> 
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>
>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>
>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent
>> those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week
>> max.  That is Utah.
>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>
>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
>> $80K gross?
>>
>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an
>> incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone
>> work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video games?
>>
>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>
>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
>> job.  Never asked me for money.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread Mark Radabaugh

At least in Ohio you can elect to have taxes taken out of your unemployment 
check, or not.   Care to take a guess what the vast majority choose?

Mark

> On Aug 6, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Carl Peterson  wrote:
> 
> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal level.  
> State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't taxed?  
> 
> Yale did a study on this.  
> 
> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> (2,000K)
>  
> 
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
> wrote:
> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>  
> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent 
> those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week 
> max.  That is Utah. 
> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in the 
> $17/hour range gross.
>  
> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of that? 
>  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps $80K 
> gross?
>  
> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home, why 
> would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been freaking 
> out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an incentive to 
> not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone work if they 
> get that much for drinking beer and playing video games? 
>  
> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>  
> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He said 
> he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time job.  
> Never asked me for money. 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

2020-08-06 Thread David Coudron

I think that is accurate, and my fear is the we haven’t seen the economic 
impact of the Covid situation because everyone is still making an equivalent of 
$80K.   When the extra bump in unemployment finally runs out (we can’t keep 
paying the extra bump forever) we will see folks stop spending money and the 
real pressure of high unemployment on the economy.   Just my guess though, 
someone probably has the numbers figured out somewhere.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:

People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent those 
getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week max.  That 
is Utah.
So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in the 
$17/hour range gross.

Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of that?  
$1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps $80K gross?

So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home, why 
would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been freaking out 
about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an incentive to not 
try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone work if they get 
that much for drinking beer and playing video games?

Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?

I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He said he 
didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time job.  Never 
asked me for money.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-21 Thread Ken Hohhof

Some of the most successful people are those who learn from their mistakes.  
But admitting you’re wrong does not seem to be a natural human trait.

 

And it’s unrealistic to expect everything to be resolved by compromise.  If a 
store has a sign “no shirt, no shoes, no service”, do you compromise?  Yes, by 
going to a different store.

 

The whole thing about not thinking it was a mistake because it was resolved by 
force is interesting.  Slavery and racism aside, as a person who grew up in the 
north, I’ve never understood why some people seem to reject the idea that the 
Confederacy lost the war and the issue is settled.

 

Germany didn’t accept the outcome of WWI, but both Germany and Japan seem to 
have accepted they lost WWII and the issue was settled.  At least until 
recently, with a resurgence of neo Nazis in Germany among later generations.  
Is it that way with wanting to reject or revisit the outcome of the Civil War?  
I don’t feel like it’s just a recent thing.  40 years ago I would visit certain 
states and get the feeling the Civil War was viewed as just a temporary 
setback.  And in Texas, sometimes I got the feeling that statehood was viewed 
as a trial period and they might call the whole thing off.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

 

Maybe that's the issue with slavery. The north won the war and emancipated the 
slaves, except parts of the south never admitted it was a mistake (and parts of 
the north as well).

bp

 

On 7/20/2020 7:16 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I would argue that sometimes the correct compromise is actually for one side to 
realize they were wrong and to abandon the practice.  Murder,  Slavery, etc.  

 

I also realize that often these are the types of compromises which don't happen 
without forceful action. 

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to kill and 
other's not to be killed?

Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"

 

On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured I'd just 
post this separately in the thread.

 

I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are where 
two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.

 

Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought killing 
other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group just wanted 
to live their lives without being worried about being killed by other humans, 
and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in conflict their 
'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this case, 'the right to 
live is more important than the right to kill others'.   So we now have laws 
against murdering others.

 

What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a construction 
of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the right to not be 
killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you have a right to 
kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of course, I have a feeling 
that a society with that as a right might not have a long lifecycle...

 

As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm of 
'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.   

 

In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought over 
right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important than the 
desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether the color of 
your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to be shot or abused 
by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and on.

 

If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests (peaceful or 
violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For example, the rights 
of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of the white people to not 
want black people to share their facilities/businesses.   At some point, there 
is going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal society, one would hope 
that you could come to an agreement that both sides would at least be equally 
unhappy about without resorting to protests and civil disobedience.   But when 
you're the party who's perceived rights are being trampled on, it's kinda hard 
to get the people who are doing the trampling to listen, since you'd end up 
trampling on their rights if things changed.   In this circumstance, often some 
sort of protest or refusal to go along with the societal norms is unfortunately 
needed to bring the topic up to the light.  Thus you saw the lunch counter 
sit-ins and the freedom riders and similar.

 

The ignition for a lot of the current events se

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-21 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Maybe that's the issue with slavery. The north won the war and
  emancipated the slaves, except parts of the south never admitted
  it was a mistake (and parts of the north as well).

bp



On 7/20/2020 7:16 PM, Forrest Christian
  (List Account) wrote:


  
  I would argue that sometimes the correct
compromise is actually for one side to realize they were wrong
and to abandon the practice.  Murder,  Slavery, etc. 


I also realize that often these are the types of
  compromises which don't happen without forceful action. 
  
  
  
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM
  Adam Moffett  wrote:


  
What would be the reasonable compromise between one
  caveman's right to kill and other's not to be killed?
Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no
  killing"


On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
  wrote:


  
Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's
  specific points, I figured I'd just post this
  separately in the thread.


I've recently realized that pretty much all of the
  conflicts we see are where two sides 'rights' come in
  conflict with each other.


Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was
  one group that thought killing other humans was just
  fine and it was their right.  Another group just
  wanted to live their lives without being worried about
  being killed by other humans, and it was their right
  to do so.   When those groups came in conflict their
  'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in
  this case, 'the right to live is more important than
  the right to kill others'.   So we now have laws
  against murdering others.


What I think people miss is that 'rights' are
  really nothing but a construction of societal norms
  and laws built up over years.   You have the right to
  not be killed (life).   But it could have just as
  easily been "you have a right to kill anything you
  want, including other humans".   Of course, I have a
  feeling that a society with that as a right might not
  have a long lifecycle...


As time has progressed, more and more things have
  moved into the realm of 'rights'.   Right to free
  speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.   


In our current situation, there seem to be several
  'rights' being fought over right now.   Whether my
  desire to not wear a mask is more important than the
  desire of society to reduce the transmission of a
  virus.   Whether the color of your skin should
  determine if you are more or less likely to be shot or
  abused by a police officer in some areas.    And on
  and on and on.


If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of
  the protests (peaceful or violent) came about where
  'rights' were in conflict.   For example, the rights
  of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of
  the white people to not want black people to share
  their facilities/businesses.   At some point, there is
  going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal
  society, one would hope that you could come to an
  agreement that both sides would at least be equally
  unhappy about without resorting to protests and civil
  disobedience.   But when you're the party
  who's perceived rights are being trampled on, it's
  kinda hard to get the people who are doing the
  trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on
  their rights if things changed.   In this
  circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to
  go along with the societal norms is unfortunately
  needed to bring the topic up to the light.  Thus you
  saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom riders
  and similar.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-21 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:59 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> out of curiosity, when it pops off next month, are "war crimes" defined
> somewhere ahead of time specifically, or is that a "written by the victor"
> sort of thing... asking for a friend
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:17 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I would argue that sometimes the correct compromise is actually for one
>> side to realize they were wrong and to abandon the practice.  Murder,
>> Slavery, etc.
>>
>> I also realize that often these are the types of compromises which don't
>> happen without forceful action.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to
>>> kill and other's not to be killed?
>>>
>>> Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>> Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured
>>> I'd just post this separately in the thread.
>>>
>>> I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are
>>> where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.
>>>
>>> Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought
>>> killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group
>>> just wanted to live their lives without being worried about being killed by
>>> other humans, and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in
>>> conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this
>>> case, 'the right to live is more important than the right to kill others'.
>>>  So we now have laws against murdering others.
>>>
>>> What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a
>>> construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the
>>> right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you
>>> have a right to kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of
>>> course, I have a feeling that a society with that as a right might not have
>>> a long lifecycle...
>>>
>>> As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm
>>> of 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so
>>> on.
>>>
>>> In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought
>>> over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important
>>> than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether
>>> the color of your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to
>>> be shot or abused by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and
>>> on.
>>>
>>> If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests
>>> (peaceful or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For
>>> example, the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of
>>> the white people to not want black people to share their
>>> facilities/businesses.   At some point, there is going to be conflict and
>>> disagreement.   In an ideal society, one would hope that you could come to
>>> an agreement that both sides would at least be equally unhappy about
>>> without resorting to protests and civil disobedience.   But when you're the
>>> party who's perceived rights are being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get
>>> the people who are doing the trampling to listen, since you'd end up
>>> trampling on their rights if things changed.   In this circumstance, often
>>> some sort of protest or refusal to go along with the societal norms is
>>> unfortunately needed to bring the topic up to the light.  Thus you saw the
>>> lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom riders and similar.
>>>
>>> The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George
>>> Floyd death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived rights the
>>> police officers believed they had, and the right of a black man to not be
>>> killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, this has been
>>> bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a lot of these types
>>> of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have to look very far to
>>> find some.
>>>
>>> I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by
>>> others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to stop
>>> and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that the other
>>> side thinks is more important than your right you're not happy with being
>>> curtailed.And to come to some sort of reasonable agreement.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


--

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Jaime Solorza

I am dropping out of this one...unless you have had  guns and shotguns
pointed at you while erecting a tower in Pflugerville, stopped and held for
three hours by Hereford police because the antennas of your Suburban look
like drug dealer vehicle, stopped in Mississippi because a new Suburban
with four Mexican Americans probably means drug shipment, you can't feel
what we feel...there are a few more that happened to my crews and me from
1992-2004 when I closed my shop.



On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 12:17 PM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> One thing that RT does very well, is economic reporting with that guy with
> the bow tie. If you actually listens to his comments, he is hard hitting on
> things the government does from a money standpoint and he doesn't play
> party favorites or have a bias in that regard. He also digs deep in to
> stuff most people ignore pretending those issues don't exist or that it
> doesn't make any difference. If more people paid attention to, knew more
> about things like the Federal Reserve and watched tax and monetary policy
> and actions, they would have a lot different viewpoint of their favorite
> political figures.
>
> I have yet to find a semi large media outlet that has the balls to report
> on this level of detail from a financial point of view. So while I watch RT
> knowing that it has a serious Russian slant and agenda, the money guy with
> the bowtie seems to buck that trend from them.
>
> Max Keiser is his name and he has the Keiser report on the RT channel.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 1:58 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>
> I would only look at RT as a source of disinformation. I'm not sure
> about Al Jazera. BBC is probably OK for a semi-European point of view,
> but they seem to sensationalize things more than necessary. Fox with
> some exceptions is almost a current admin mouthpiece. MSNBC is like the
> anti-Fox, and CNN is a bit in between. I do pay attention to NPR, but I
> think they tend to soft-pedal some things.
>
> I try to read between the lines as much as possible.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/20/2020 10:48 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > Problem is, there is no source of news you can trust.  They all have a
> > bias.
> > Actually that applies to all people, they all have a bias.
> >
> > So, I read CNN and MSNBC then average it with FOX and compare with RT
> > and Al Jazzera and then if that averages with BBC I will run with that.
> >
> > -----Original Message- From: Brian Webster
> > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:32 AM
> > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
> >
> > Is that all they are doing? I do not know and do not expect anyone who
> > is not directly involved in the activities to know at this stage, but
> > it is very plausible that they are doing what is within their
> > authority. Speculation by the media is not in itself reason either.
> > Fact is people should do their due diligence and try to find out their
> > own facts. Leaving that job up to a journalist and hanging your hat,
> > opinion, and perception on a journalist these days probably not the
> > wisest plan of action. But if a person wants to have an echo chamber
> > opinion, they should go ahead and pick the media outlet that supports
> > their point of view and stick with them. All media outlets these days
> > have a major bias like we have never seen before. One side or the
> > other, doesn't matter. Journalistic integrity is not what it used to
> > be yet it would seem most of society is quick to question everything
> > and everyone except the media.
> >
> > I know that if I lived in this area I would expect my constitutional
> > rights to be protected as a citizen with freedom of movement in those
> > neighborhoods and have access to my place of business or residence. A
> > government letting a whole region of a city be taken over like what
> > happened in Seattle is absurd. That was an invasion and take over
> > plain and simple. Protests are one thing, occupying a place and
> > keeping cops out and not having 100% agreement by all those in the
> > occupied area is nothing short than an act of war and at minimum
> > domestic terrorism. Plain and simple. If you do not believe that,
> > seriously ask yourself if you would be ok if that happened to you on
> > your own property or property you own for your place of business. That
> > is a hostage/kidnap situation. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of your
> > own happiness has been taken away.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

out of curiosity, when it pops off next month, are "war crimes" defined
somewhere ahead of time specifically, or is that a "written by the victor"
sort of thing... asking for a friend

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:17 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I would argue that sometimes the correct compromise is actually for one
> side to realize they were wrong and to abandon the practice.  Murder,
> Slavery, etc.
>
> I also realize that often these are the types of compromises which don't
> happen without forceful action.
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to
>> kill and other's not to be killed?
>>
>> Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"
>>
>>
>> On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured
>> I'd just post this separately in the thread.
>>
>> I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are
>> where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.
>>
>> Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought
>> killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group
>> just wanted to live their lives without being worried about being killed by
>> other humans, and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in
>> conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this
>> case, 'the right to live is more important than the right to kill others'.
>>  So we now have laws against murdering others.
>>
>> What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a
>> construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the
>> right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you
>> have a right to kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of
>> course, I have a feeling that a society with that as a right might not have
>> a long lifecycle...
>>
>> As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm of
>> 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.
>>
>>
>> In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought
>> over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important
>> than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether
>> the color of your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to
>> be shot or abused by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and
>> on.
>>
>> If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests (peaceful
>> or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For example,
>> the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of the white
>> people to not want black people to share their facilities/businesses.   At
>> some point, there is going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal
>> society, one would hope that you could come to an agreement that both sides
>> would at least be equally unhappy about without resorting to protests and
>> civil disobedience.   But when you're the party who's perceived rights are
>> being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get the people who are doing the
>> trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on their rights if things
>> changed.   In this circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to
>> go along with the societal norms is unfortunately needed to bring the topic
>> up to the light.  Thus you saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom
>> riders and similar.
>>
>> The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George Floyd
>> death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived rights the
>> police officers believed they had, and the right of a black man to not be
>> killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, this has been
>> bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a lot of these types
>> of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have to look very far to
>> find some.
>>
>> I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by
>> others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to stop
>> and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that the other
>> side thinks is more important than your right you're not happy with being
>> curtailed.And to come to some sort of reasonable agreement.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

I would argue that sometimes the correct compromise is actually for one
side to realize they were wrong and to abandon the practice.  Murder,
Slavery, etc.

I also realize that often these are the types of compromises which don't
happen without forceful action.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 7:18 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to
> kill and other's not to be killed?
>
> Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"
>
>
> On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured I'd
> just post this separately in the thread.
>
> I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are
> where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.
>
> Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought
> killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group
> just wanted to live their lives without being worried about being killed by
> other humans, and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in
> conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this
> case, 'the right to live is more important than the right to kill others'.
>  So we now have laws against murdering others.
>
> What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a
> construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the
> right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you
> have a right to kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of
> course, I have a feeling that a society with that as a right might not have
> a long lifecycle...
>
> As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm of
> 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.
>
>
> In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought
> over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important
> than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether
> the color of your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to
> be shot or abused by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and
> on.
>
> If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests (peaceful
> or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For example,
> the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of the white
> people to not want black people to share their facilities/businesses.   At
> some point, there is going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal
> society, one would hope that you could come to an agreement that both sides
> would at least be equally unhappy about without resorting to protests and
> civil disobedience.   But when you're the party who's perceived rights are
> being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get the people who are doing the
> trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on their rights if things
> changed.   In this circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to
> go along with the societal norms is unfortunately needed to bring the topic
> up to the light.  Thus you saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom
> riders and similar.
>
> The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George Floyd
> death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived rights the
> police officers believed they had, and the right of a black man to not be
> killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, this has been
> bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a lot of these types
> of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have to look very far to
> find some.
>
> I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by
> others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to stop
> and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that the other
> side thinks is more important than your right you're not happy with being
> curtailed.And to come to some sort of reasonable agreement.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Or the non-killers became killers in order to prevent being killed by 
the killers, thus forever preventing all future killing and nobody was 
killed ever again.



On 7/20/2020 9:20 PM, Robert wrote:

One night a year?  I think there are movies about that.

On 7/20/20 6:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right 
to kill and other's not to be killed?


Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"


On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I 
figured I'd just post this separately in the thread.


I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see 
are where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.


Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that 
thought killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  
Another group just wanted to live their lives without being worried 
about being killed by other humans, and it was their right to do 
so.   When those groups came in conflict their 'rights' didn't match 
so a rule had to be made - in this case, 'the right to live is more 
important than the right to kill others'.  So we now have laws 
against murdering others.


What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a 
construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You 
have the right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as 
easily been "you have a right to kill anything you want, including 
other humans".   Of course, I have a feeling that a society with 
that as a right might not have a long lifecycle...


As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the 
realm of 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully 
assemble, and so on.


In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being 
fought over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is 
more important than the desire of society to reduce the transmission 
of a virus.   Whether the color of your skin should determine if you 
are more or less likely to be shot or abused by a police officer in 
some areas.    And on and on and on.


If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests 
(peaceful or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.  
 For example, the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the 
rights of the white people to not want black people to share their 
facilities/businesses.   At some point, there is going to be 
conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal society, one would hope 
that you could come to an agreement that both sides would at least 
be equally unhappy about without resorting to protests and civil 
disobedience.   But when you're the party who's perceived rights are 
being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get the people who are doing 
the trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on their 
rights if things changed.   In this circumstance, often some sort of 
protest or refusal to go along with the societal norms is 
unfortunately needed to bring the topic up to the light.  Thus you 
saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom riders and similar.


The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George 
Floyd death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived 
rights the police officers believed they had, and the right of a 
black man to not be killed at the hands of those officers.  And 
obviously, this has been bubbling under the surface for some time.  
 There are a lot of these types of conflicts going on right now... 
one doesn't have to look very far to find some.


I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made 
by others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability 
to stop and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is 
that the other side thinks is more important than your right you're 
not happy with being curtailed.    And to come to some sort of 
reasonable agreement.







-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Chuck Macenski

The Purge. I saw it on Rick and Morty!

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:21 PM Robert  wrote:

> One night a year?  I think there are movies about that.
>
> On 7/20/20 6:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to
> kill and other's not to be killed?
>
> Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"
>
>
> On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured I'd
> just post this separately in the thread.
>
> I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are
> where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.
>
> Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought
> killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group
> just wanted to live their lives without being worried about being killed by
> other humans, and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in
> conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this
> case, 'the right to live is more important than the right to kill others'.
>  So we now have laws against murdering others.
>
> What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a
> construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the
> right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you
> have a right to kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of
> course, I have a feeling that a society with that as a right might not have
> a long lifecycle...
>
> As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm of
> 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.
>
>
> In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought
> over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important
> than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether
> the color of your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to
> be shot or abused by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and
> on.
>
> If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests (peaceful
> or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For example,
> the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of the white
> people to not want black people to share their facilities/businesses.   At
> some point, there is going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal
> society, one would hope that you could come to an agreement that both sides
> would at least be equally unhappy about without resorting to protests and
> civil disobedience.   But when you're the party who's perceived rights are
> being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get the people who are doing the
> trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on their rights if things
> changed.   In this circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to
> go along with the societal norms is unfortunately needed to bring the topic
> up to the light.  Thus you saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom
> riders and similar.
>
> The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George Floyd
> death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived rights the
> police officers believed they had, and the right of a black man to not be
> killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, this has been
> bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a lot of these types
> of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have to look very far to
> find some.
>
> I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by
> others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to stop
> and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that the other
> side thinks is more important than your right you're not happy with being
> curtailed.And to come to some sort of reasonable agreement.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Robert


One night a year?  I think there are movies about that.

On 7/20/20 6:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to 
kill and other's not to be killed?


Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"


On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I 
figured I'd just post this separately in the thread.


I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see 
are where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.


Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that 
thought killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  
Another group just wanted to live their lives without being worried 
about being killed by other humans, and it was their right to do so.  
 When those groups came in conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a 
rule had to be made - in this case, 'the right to live is more 
important than the right to kill others'.   So we now have laws 
against murdering others.


What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a 
construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You 
have the right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as 
easily been "you have a right to kill anything you want, including 
other humans".  Of course, I have a feeling that a society with that 
as a right might not have a long lifecycle...


As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the 
realm of 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully 
assemble, and so on.


In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being 
fought over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more 
important than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a 
virus.   Whether the color of your skin should determine if you are 
more or less likely to be shot or abused by a police officer in some 
areas. And on and on and on.


If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests 
(peaceful or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.  
 For example, the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the 
rights of the white people to not want black people to share their 
facilities/businesses.  At some point, there is going to be conflict 
and disagreement.   In an ideal society, one would hope that you 
could come to an agreement that both sides would at least be equally 
unhappy about without resorting to protests and civil disobedience.  
 But when you're the party who's perceived rights are being trampled 
on, it's kinda hard to get the people who are doing the trampling to 
listen, since you'd end up trampling on their rights if things 
changed.   In this circumstance, often some sort of protest or 
refusal to go along with the societal norms is unfortunately needed 
to bring the topic up to the light. Thus you saw the lunch counter 
sit-ins and the freedom riders and similar.


The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George 
Floyd death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived 
rights the police officers believed they had, and the right of a 
black man to not be killed at the hands of those officers.  And 
obviously, this has been bubbling under the surface for some time.  
 There are a lot of these types of conflicts going on right now... 
one doesn't have to look very far to find some.


I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made 
by others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability 
to stop and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is 
that the other side thinks is more important than your right you're 
not happy with being curtailed.    And to come to some sort of 
reasonable agreement.






-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to 
kill and other's not to be killed?


Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"


On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured 
I'd just post this separately in the thread.


I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see 
are where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.


Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that 
thought killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  
Another group just wanted to live their lives without being worried 
about being killed by other humans, and it was their right to do so.  
 When those groups came in conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a 
rule had to be made - in this case, 'the right to live is more 
important than the right to kill others'.   So we now have laws 
against murdering others.


What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a 
construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You 
have the right to not be killed (life).  But it could have just as 
easily been "you have a right to kill anything you want, including 
other humans".   Of course, I have a feeling that a society with that 
as a right might not have a long lifecycle...


As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm 
of 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and 
so on.


In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being 
fought over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more 
important than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a 
virus.   Whether the color of your skin should determine if you are 
more or less likely to be shot or abused by a police officer in some 
areas.    And on and on and on.


If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests 
(peaceful or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.  
 For example, the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the 
rights of the white people to not want black people to share their 
facilities/businesses.   At some point, there is going to be conflict 
and disagreement.   In an ideal society, one would hope that you could 
come to an agreement that both sides would at least be equally unhappy 
about without resorting to protests and civil disobedience.  But when 
you're the party who's perceived rights are being trampled on, it's 
kinda hard to get the people who are doing the trampling to listen, 
since you'd end up trampling on their rights if things changed.   In 
this circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to go along 
with the societal norms is unfortunately needed to bring the topic up 
to the light. Thus you saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom 
riders and similar.


The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George 
Floyd death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived 
rights the police officers believed they had, and the right of a black 
man to not be killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, 
this has been bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a 
lot of these types of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have 
to look very far to find some.


I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by 
others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to 
stop and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that 
the other side thinks is more important than your right you're not 
happy with being curtailed.    And to come to some sort of reasonable 
agreement.


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured I'd
just post this separately in the thread.

I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are
where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.

Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought
killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group
just wanted to live their lives without being worried about being killed by
other humans, and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in
conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this
case, 'the right to live is more important than the right to kill others'.
 So we now have laws against murdering others.

What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a
construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the
right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you
have a right to kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of
course, I have a feeling that a society with that as a right might not have
a long lifecycle...

As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm of
'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.


In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought
over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important
than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether
the color of your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to
be shot or abused by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and
on.

If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests (peaceful
or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For example,
the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of the white
people to not want black people to share their facilities/businesses.   At
some point, there is going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal
society, one would hope that you could come to an agreement that both sides
would at least be equally unhappy about without resorting to protests and
civil disobedience.   But when you're the party who's perceived rights are
being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get the people who are doing the
trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on their rights if things
changed.   In this circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to
go along with the societal norms is unfortunately needed to bring the topic
up to the light.  Thus you saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom
riders and similar.

The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George Floyd
death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived rights the
police officers believed they had, and the right of a black man to not be
killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, this has been
bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a lot of these types
of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have to look very far to
find some.

I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by
others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to stop
and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that the other
side thinks is more important than your right you're not happy with being
curtailed.And to come to some sort of reasonable agreement.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

OK, talking heads.  Was that Mars Attacks?  Or Futurama?  I think both.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:54 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

If we could get Steve on the Jerry Springer show along with some antifa folks, 
some proud boys and Nancy Pelosi... I would watch it.

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:44 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

He could make more money that way.

bp

On 7/20/2020 3:40 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  wrote:

It’s the Steve Jones channel for me.  He ought to be a philosophy professor.  
Or a talking head, or both.

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:30 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Is this scenario based on Malaysian MH370? I do recall a lot of wild 
speculation about that one.

The news definitely screws things up.  But it's not feasible for all of us to 
be responsible for reviewing all the primary sources.  Not any more than for 
all of us to be our own doctors, lawyers, and plumbers.  Sooner or later you 
have to accept an opinion from someone elsewhether that's Rachael Maddow at 
MSNBC or Steve Jones watching live streams and reporting to AFMUG, you're 
taking someone else's word for what happened because realistically you have to. 
 Even if you look at multiple secondary sources you're ultimately picking a 
version of events you find personally find more credible.

The alternative is to believe nothing from anyone, but I'm not sure where that 
would leave us as an electorate.  Perhaps it would leave us "vulnerable to a 
populist authoritarian demagogue".

-Adam

On 7/20/2020 5:53 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:

A plane crashes in a field.  There is raw video footage of the burning ruble. 
There are no survivors.  Truly a very sad event.  Everyone turns into their 
news network of choice.  All networks can agree that a plane has crashed, there 
are no survivors, and there is no evidence to tell us why.  However, that story 
is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time.  The networks must fuel that 
24/7 news.  They start bringing in the "experts". 

Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot down with a missile.  
They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have happened.  
They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments.  They get leaked 
documents from unnamed sources saying they heard chatter about a major event 
that was about to happen.

Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" 
explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy 
cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed 
sources showing repair history of the plane.

Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" 
explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy 
cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed 
sources showing pilot's past history.  They interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend 
that broke up with him the day before.

This continues for days or weeks.  It moves from the networks to social media 
and blog sites.  At the beginning all could agree a plane crashed in a field 
and everyone died.  But now after weeks of being bombarded by multiple "expert" 
theories, people have taken sides.

2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into a large flock of birds 
that blew its engines.  A one in a million stroke of bad luck for the people on 
the plane.  But it doesn't matter.

Some people will believe it was a missile and the government is covering it up 
to protect (fill in the blank)
Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and the government is 
covering it up to protect the plane builder
Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the government is covering 
it up to protect the airlines
Some people will believe that the whole thing was staged and never happened

All of the above people will agree on one thing.  If you don't agree with them, 
your are an idiot.
All of the above people will continue to argue with each other for months.  
They may disown family members that don't agree with them.  They may vandalize 
property of people that don't agree with them.  They may harm people that don't 
agree with them.  But in their minds they are right and the others a idiots, it 
is all acceptable. 

There is a small amount of people that will realize a plane crash in a field, 
everyone died and there was a 2 month investigation.  They will accept the 
results and move on with their lives.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
 <http://www

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

I don’t live in Chicago, I guess I’m Chicago adjacent, but I can assure you 
NOBODY in Chicago is calling for a federal response, at least not Homeland 
Security troops on the street.

 

Back in 2017 when Trump was beating this same drum, and Jeff Sessions was AG, 
some help was sent and actually welcomed.  From a Reuters article:

 

The federal assistance will come in the form of the Chicago Crime Gun Strike 
Force, a collaboration between the police and the Department of Justice’s 
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

 

The group, including police officers, federal agents and intelligence analysts, 
will work to impede the flow of illegal guns throughout Chicago and target 
repeat gun offenders.

On Monday, the Chicago police announced that the ATF’s mobile ballistics lab 
had arrived in the city to help process shooting scenes.

 

“Six months ago we made it clear that we would welcome additional federal 
support, and six months later we appreciate the 20 new ATF agents that are now 
arriving,” Adam Collins, a spokesman for Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, said.

 

I don’t agree with Jeff Sessions on much in the way of ideology or policy, but 
the guy was at least somewhat competent.  What he sent was appropriate to the 
problem.  There isn’t even a pretense that what is being done now is anything 
but a political show, or that it will address the problem of young men in gangs 
shooting each other and innocent bystanders.  It’s authoritarian political 
theater and not very pretty, and whether your tie is blue or red, I think we 
should all be concerned.  I don’t agree with Rand Paul on much, but he doesn’t 
like it either.

 

And BTW, nobody seems to miss Rahm Emanuel much.

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett

Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:24 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

 

"against the will of the local citizens"

I went searching for Portland citizens calling for federal response and I'm not 
finding it.  I did unexpectedly find more than one of them claiming it's not 
really a big deal, and that there's trouble downtown but 3 blocks away 
everything is business as usual.  

Anyway.do you have a citation for that?

On 7/20/2020 5:19 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

thats very simple, the local authorities are asking them not to against the 
will of the local citizens whos rights are being infringed upon. There really 
isnt any question on whether they should be exercising authority upon the 
request of the citizen. The only real question is whether lethal force should 
be used, thats a fair discussion, but you dont get to predicate the discussion 
on someone else first giving up their liberty to discuss it.. Per the 
unalienable rights of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, the citizen 
should be able to deal with it and whatever level they personally deem 
appropriate. Im personally a fan of finality when resolving a problem, deal 
with the problem one time and be done with it. If weakness prevails, thats 
exactly the outcome we are near. I actually prefer it over the government 
intervention, since our experiment has been so corrupted that no good deed is 
without consequence.

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:07 PM Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just googling for 
the answer they wanted and then reading blogs they already agreed with.  
Watching live streams of current events as they unfold would be on a whole 
other level, but I definitely do not have time in my day for that.  I don't 
know how you manage it.  One problem with that approach though is you can't 
cite any of it.  I have to take your word for what you saw and how you 
interpreted it, and that's not actually different from choosing to believe in 
whatever any given news agency presents me with.  

I'd 95% agree with premise A, with the 5% being that there are always grey 
areas.  You could always imagine scenarios where we must choose to infringe one 
person's rights over another's (The Trolley Problem, or any of 10,000 
variations).  Definitely protesters blocking traffic without a permit is not 
ok.  

Covid or not, screaming in someone's face will instigate or escalate violence.  
Yes that's not ok.

Destruction of property, also not ok.

But the conclusion: "That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"".  
Huh? There are still several orders of magnitude more people marching than 
there are people damaging property, blocking traffic, etc.  

I won't go point by point in the characterization of what deputized federal 
agents are or aren't doing in Portland.I think you are largely correct in 
what they're doing and that they have the authority to do it.  The question is 
whether they should be exercising that authority in this time and place, 
especially when local authorities are asking them not to.  I'm not saying I 
have

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Re: [AFMUG] OT - politicalIf we could get Steve on the Jerry Springer show 
along with some antifa folks, some proud boys and Nancy Pelosi... I would watch 
it.

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:44 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

He could make more money that way.

bp

On 7/20/2020 3:40 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  It’s the Steve Jones channel for me.  He ought to be a philosophy professor.  
Or a talking head, or both.

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:30 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

  Is this scenario based on Malaysian MH370? I do recall a lot of wild 
speculation about that one.

  The news definitely screws things up.  But it's not feasible for all of us to 
be responsible for reviewing all the primary sources.  Not any more than for 
all of us to be our own doctors, lawyers, and plumbers.  Sooner or later you 
have to accept an opinion from someone elsewhether that's Rachael Maddow at 
MSNBC or Steve Jones watching live streams and reporting to AFMUG, you're 
taking someone else's word for what happened because realistically you have to. 
 Even if you look at multiple secondary sources you're ultimately picking a 
version of events you find personally find more credible.

  The alternative is to believe nothing from anyone, but I'm not sure where 
that would leave us as an electorate.  Perhaps it would leave us "vulnerable to 
a populist authoritarian demagogue".

  -Adam

  On 7/20/2020 5:53 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:

A plane crashes in a field.  There is raw video footage of the burning 
ruble. There are no survivors.  Truly a very sad event.  Everyone turns into 
their news network of choice.  All networks can agree that a plane has crashed, 
there are no survivors, and there is no evidence to tell us why.  However, that 
story is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time.  The networks must fuel 
that 24/7 news.  They start bringing in the "experts". 

Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot down with a missile. 
 They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have happened. 
 They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments.  They get leaked 
documents from unnamed sources saying they heard chatter about a major event 
that was about to happen.

Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on "expert" after 
"expert" explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do 
cheesy cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from 
unnamed sources showing repair history of the plane.

Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" 
explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy 
cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed 
sources showing pilot's past history.  They interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend 
that broke up with him the day before.

This continues for days or weeks.  It moves from the networks to social 
media and blog sites.  At the beginning all could agree a plane crashed in a 
field and everyone died.  But now after weeks of being bombarded by multiple 
"expert" theories, people have taken sides.

2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into a large flock of 
birds that blew its engines.  A one in a million stroke of bad luck for the 
people on the plane.  But it doesn't matter.

Some people will believe it was a missile and the government is covering it 
up to protect (fill in the blank)
Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and the government is 
covering it up to protect the plane builder
Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the government is 
covering it up to protect the airlines
Some people will believe that the whole thing was staged and never happened

All of the above people will agree on one thing.  If you don't agree with 
them, your are an idiot.
All of the above people will continue to argue with each other for months.  
They may disown family members that don't agree with them.  They may vandalize 
property of people that don't agree with them.  They may harm people that don't 
agree with them.  But in their minds they are right and the others a idiots, it 
is all acceptable. 

There is a small amount of people that will realize a plane crash in a 
field, everyone died and there was a 2 month investigation.  They will accept 
the results and move on with their lives.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

--

Monday, July 20, 2020, 5:06:47 PM, you wrote:

 Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just 
googling for the answer they wanted and then re

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Bill Prince

Title: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

  
  
He could make more money that way.

bp



On 7/20/2020 3:40 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  
  

  It’s the Steve Jones channel for me.  He ought to be a
philosophy professor.  Or a talking head, or both.
  

   
  
From: Adam
Moffett 
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
  

 
  
  
Is this scenario based on Malaysian MH370? I do recall a
  lot of wild speculation about that one.

The news definitely screws things up.  But it's not
  feasible for all of us to be responsible for reviewing all
  the primary sources.  Not any more than for all of us to
  be our own doctors, lawyers, and plumbers.  Sooner or
  later you have to accept an opinion from someone
  elsewhether that's Rachael Maddow at MSNBC or Steve
  Jones watching live streams and reporting to AFMUG, you're
  taking someone else's word for what happened because
  realistically you have to.  Even if you look at multiple
  secondary sources you're ultimately picking a version of
  events you find personally find more credible.

The alternative is to believe nothing from anyone, but
  I'm not sure where that would leave us as an electorate. 
  Perhaps it would leave us "vulnerable to a populist
  authoritarian demagogue".
-Adam

 
On 7/20/2020 5:53 PM, Mark -
  Myakka Technologies wrote:

A plane crashes in a field.  There is raw
video footage of the burning ruble. There are no
survivors.  Truly a very sad event.  Everyone turns into
their news network of choice.  All networks can agree
that a plane has crashed, there are no survivors, and
there is no evidence to tell us why.  However, that
story is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time. 
The networks must fuel that 24/7 news.  They start
bringing in the "experts". 

Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot
down with a missile.  They bring on "expert" after
"expert" explaining how this could have happened.  They
show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments. 
They get leaked documents from unnamed sources saying
they heard chatter about a major event that was about to
happen.

Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on
"expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have
happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish
re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from
unnamed sources showing repair history of the plane.

Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert"
after "expert" explaining how this could have happened. 
They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish
re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from
unnamed sources showing pilot's past history.  They
interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend that broke up with
him the day before.

This continues for days or weeks.  It moves from the
networks to social media and blog sites.  At the
beginning all could agree a plane crashed in a field and
everyone died.  But now after weeks of being bombarded
by multiple "expert" theories, people have taken sides.

2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into
a large flock of birds that blew its engines.  A one in
a million stroke of bad luck for the people on the
plane.  But it doesn't matter.

Some people will believe it was a missile and the
government is covering it up to protect (fill in the
blank)
Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and
the government is covering it up to protect the plane
builder
Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the
government is covering it up to pro

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Re: [AFMUG] OT - politicalIt’s the Steve Jones channel for me.  He ought to be 
a philosophy professor.  Or a talking head, or both.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Is this scenario based on Malaysian MH370? I do recall a lot of wild 
speculation about that one.

The news definitely screws things up.  But it's not feasible for all of us to 
be responsible for reviewing all the primary sources.  Not any more than for 
all of us to be our own doctors, lawyers, and plumbers.  Sooner or later you 
have to accept an opinion from someone elsewhether that's Rachael Maddow at 
MSNBC or Steve Jones watching live streams and reporting to AFMUG, you're 
taking someone else's word for what happened because realistically you have to. 
 Even if you look at multiple secondary sources you're ultimately picking a 
version of events you find personally find more credible.

The alternative is to believe nothing from anyone, but I'm not sure where that 
would leave us as an electorate.  Perhaps it would leave us "vulnerable to a 
populist authoritarian demagogue".

-Adam

On 7/20/2020 5:53 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:

  A plane crashes in a field.  There is raw video footage of the burning ruble. 
There are no survivors.  Truly a very sad event.  Everyone turns into their 
news network of choice.  All networks can agree that a plane has crashed, there 
are no survivors, and there is no evidence to tell us why.  However, that story 
is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time.  The networks must fuel that 
24/7 news.  They start bringing in the "experts". 

  Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot down with a missile.  
They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have happened.  
They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments.  They get leaked 
documents from unnamed sources saying they heard chatter about a major event 
that was about to happen.

  Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" 
explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy 
cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed 
sources showing repair history of the plane.

  Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" 
explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy 
cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed 
sources showing pilot's past history.  They interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend 
that broke up with him the day before.

  This continues for days or weeks.  It moves from the networks to social media 
and blog sites.  At the beginning all could agree a plane crashed in a field 
and everyone died.  But now after weeks of being bombarded by multiple "expert" 
theories, people have taken sides.

  2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into a large flock of 
birds that blew its engines.  A one in a million stroke of bad luck for the 
people on the plane.  But it doesn't matter.

  Some people will believe it was a missile and the government is covering it 
up to protect (fill in the blank)
  Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and the government is 
covering it up to protect the plane builder
  Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the government is 
covering it up to protect the airlines
  Some people will believe that the whole thing was staged and never happened

  All of the above people will agree on one thing.  If you don't agree with 
them, your are an idiot.
  All of the above people will continue to argue with each other for months.  
They may disown family members that don't agree with them.  They may vandalize 
property of people that don't agree with them.  They may harm people that don't 
agree with them.  But in their minds they are right and the others a idiots, it 
is all acceptable. 

  There is a small amount of people that will realize a plane crash in a field, 
everyone died and there was a 2 month investigation.  They will accept the 
results and move on with their lives.

  --
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.Myakka.com

  --

  Monday, July 20, 2020, 5:06:47 PM, you wrote:

   Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just 
googling for the answer they wanted and then reading blogs they already agreed 
with.  Watching live streams of current events as they unfold would be on a 
whole other level, but I definitely do not have time in my day for that.  I 
don't know how you manage it.  One problem with that approach though is you 
can't cite any of it.  I have to take your word for what you saw and how you 
interpreted it, and that's not actually different from choosing

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Is this scenario based on Malaysian MH370? I do recall a lot of wild 
speculation about that one.


The news definitely screws things up.  But it's not feasible for all of 
us to be responsible for reviewing all the primary sources.  Not any 
more than for all of us to be our own doctors, lawyers, and plumbers.  
Sooner or later you have to accept an opinion from someone 
elsewhether that's Rachael Maddow at MSNBC or Steve Jones watching 
live streams and reporting to AFMUG, you're taking someone else's word 
for what happened because realistically you have to.  Even if you look 
at multiple secondary sources you're ultimately picking a version of 
events you find personally find more credible.


The alternative is to believe nothing from anyone, but I'm not sure 
where that would leave us as an electorate.  Perhaps it would leave us 
"vulnerable to a populist authoritarian demagogue".


-Adam


On 7/20/2020 5:53 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
Re: [AFMUG] OT - political A plane crashes in a field.  There is raw 
video footage of the burning ruble. There are no survivors.  Truly a 
very sad event.  Everyone turns into their news network of choice. 
 All networks can agree that a plane has crashed, there are no 
survivors, and there is no evidence to tell us why.  However, that 
story is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time.  The networks 
must fuel that 24/7 news.  They start bringing in the "experts".


Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot down with a 
missile.  They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this 
could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish 
re-enactments.  They get leaked documents from unnamed sources saying 
they heard chatter about a major event that was about to happen.


Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on "expert" after 
"expert" explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs 
and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower 
documents from unnamed sources showing repair history of the plane.


Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert" after 
"expert" explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs 
and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower 
documents from unnamed sources showing pilot's past history.  They 
interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend that broke up with him the day before.


This continues for days or weeks.  It moves from the networks to 
social media and blog sites.  At the beginning all could agree a plane 
crashed in a field and everyone died.  But now after weeks of being 
bombarded by multiple "expert" theories, people have taken sides.


2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into a large flock 
of birds that blew its engines.  A one in a million stroke of bad luck 
for the people on the plane.  But it doesn't matter.


Some people will believe it was a missile and the government is 
covering it up to protect (fill in the blank)
Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and the government 
is covering it up to protect the plane builder
Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the government is 
covering it up to protect the airlines
Some people will believe that the whole thing was staged and never 
happened


All of the above people will agree on one thing.  If you don't agree 
with them, your are an idiot.
All of the above people will continue to argue with each other for 
months.  They may disown family members that don't agree with them. 
 They may vandalize property of people that don't agree with them. 
 They may harm people that don't agree with them.  But in their minds 
they are right and the others a idiots, it is all acceptable.


There is a small amount of people that will realize a plane crash in a 
field, everyone died and there was a 2 month investigation.  They will 
accept the results and move on with their lives.






--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>

--

Monday, July 20, 2020, 5:06:47 PM, you wrote:


	Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just 
googling for the answer they wanted and then reading blogs they 
already agreed with.  Watching live streams of current events as they 
unfold would be on a whole other level, but I definitely do not have 
time in my day for that.  I don't know how you manage it.  One problem 
with that approach though is you can't cite any of it.  I have to take 
your word for what you saw and how you interpreted it, and that's not 
actually different from choosing to believe in whatever any given news 
agency presents me with.
I'd 95% agree with premise A, with the 5% being that there are always 
grey areas.  You could always imagine scenarios where we must choose 
to infringe one person's rights over another's (The Trolley P

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Juan Epstein?  Oh, you mean that other Epstein.

 



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

 

was epstein on the plane?

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies mailto:m...@mailmt.com> > wrote:

A plane crashes in a field.  There is raw video footage of the burning ruble. 
There are no survivors.  Truly a very sad event.  Everyone turns into their 
news network of choice.  All networks can agree that a plane has crashed, there 
are no survivors, and there is no evidence to tell us why.  However, that story 
is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time.  The networks must fuel that 
24/7 news.  They start bringing in the "experts". 

Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot down with a missile.  
They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have happened.  
They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments.  They get leaked 
documents from unnamed sources saying they heard chatter about a major event 
that was about to happen.

Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" 
explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy 
cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed 
sources showing repair history of the plane.

Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" 
explaining how this could have happened.  They show graphs and do cheesy 
cartoonish re-enactments.  They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed 
sources showing pilot's past history.  They interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend 
that broke up with him the day before.

This continues for days or weeks.  It moves from the networks to social media 
and blog sites.  At the beginning all could agree a plane crashed in a field 
and everyone died.  But now after weeks of being bombarded by multiple "expert" 
theories, people have taken sides.

2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into a large flock of birds 
that blew its engines.  A one in a million stroke of bad luck for the people on 
the plane.  But it doesn't matter.

Some people will believe it was a missile and the government is covering it up 
to protect (fill in the blank)
Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and the government is 
covering it up to protect the plane builder
Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the government is covering 
it up to protect the airlines
Some people will believe that the whole thing was staged and never happened

All of the above people will agree on one thing.  If you don't agree with them, 
your are an idiot.
All of the above people will continue to argue with each other for months.  
They may disown family members that don't agree with them.  They may vandalize 
property of people that don't agree with them.  They may harm people that don't 
agree with them.  But in their minds they are right and the others a idiots, it 
is all acceptable. 

There is a small amount of people that will realize a plane crash in a field, 
everyone died and there was a 2 month investigation.  They will accept the 
results and move on with their lives.


  


--
Best regards,
Mark <mailto:m...@mailmt.com> mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
 <http://www.Myakka.com> www.Myakka.com

--

Monday, July 20, 2020, 5:06:47 PM, you wrote:


Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just googling for 
the answer they wanted and then reading blogs they already agreed with.  
Watching live streams of current events as they unfold would be on a whole 
other level, but I definitely do not have time in my day for that.  I don't 
know how you manage it.  One problem with that approach though is you can't 
cite any of it.  I have to take your word for what you saw and how you 
interpreted it, and that's not actually different from choosing to believe in 
whatever any given news agency presents me with.  
I'd 95% agree with premise A, with the 5% being that there are always grey 
areas.  You could always imagine scenarios where we must choose to infringe one 
person's rights over another's (The Trolley Problem, or any of 10,000 
variations).  Definitely protesters blocking traffic without a permit is not 
ok.  
Covid or not, screaming in someone's face will instigate or escalate violence.  
Yes that's not ok.
Destruction of property, also not ok.
But the conclusion: "That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"".  
Huh? There are still several orders of magnitude more people marching than 
there are people damaging property, blocking traffic, etc.  
I won't go point by point in the characterization of what deputized federal 
agents are or aren't doing in Portland

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these
kids have been going nuts for a couple of months.
I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to
protest.
(Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F, holidays excluded,
not on streets, must provide porta potties)
I don’t respect defacing or harming anyone’s property,
public or not.  Burning, occupying etc.
I really don’t know what their cause is.  Other than
against police brutality.  That is a good cause.
Will setting fire to the police building help their cause?
I wonder if you can buy those rubber bullet claymore
mines they tested out on Jackass?
Perhaps install a fire suppression system under the
awning of your store but plumb it up to pepper spray.
    *From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM  wrote:

Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking
understanding.
What are the young white kids rioting about in
Portland?
I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s
and 70s over Vietnam.
I also remember a line of State Police walking
through a park downtown and busting heads of those
that did not clear out. Actually one of my first
telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
Are young white kids just aching for a chance at
anarchy?  I don’t get it.
Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of
noble cause around you is pretty childish.
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

e not operating in
> reality.
>
> Fact of the matter is, local and state government inept response and their
> actively condoning the infringement of citizens personal liberties by one
> group over another in an enlightened 2020 is what is going to lead to
> bloodshed, much sooner than later. It wont have anything to do with skin
> tone or who lays with who either.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> People can disagree.  If we can do it politely then we won't need lent
> rules.  Instead of laughing, tell me what the fault in my reasoning is and
> explain yours.  Or tell me what my incorrect fact is with a citation
> showing what the correct fact is.  We'd be in better shape if we could do
> that without lashing out.
> I feel like we (the country) can't even talk about this stuff anymore.
> We've removed all nuance from discussing complex topics and reduced it to
> meme politics.  We express an opinion with a picture and a one liner, and
> whether you agree or disagree puts you on one team or another.  Then we
> angrily shriek at each other about it.  THAT fatigues me more than ongoing
> protests ever could.  No vote we can make will change any of that, but
> maybe we can all change that part of ourselves.
>
> On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> ROTFLMAO
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Oh I don't know about that.  If a bunch of angry people assemble
> peacefully, it wouldn't take much for them to stop being peaceful.
> There are accelerationists who absolutely want to start a civil war, but
> they're a fringe movement and giving them too much credit is the same
> mistake as giving "Antifa" too much credit.  IMO.
>
> On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> The BLM protestors are almost completely peaceful. It's groups like
> boogaloo who are creating all the ruckus.
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these kids have been going
> nuts for a couple of months.
> I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to protest.
> (Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F, holidays excluded, not on streets, must
> provide porta potties)
>
> I don’t respect defacing or harming anyone’s property, public or not.
> Burning, occupying etc.
>
> I really don’t know what their cause is.  Other than against police
> brutality.  That is a good cause.
> Will setting fire to the police building help their cause?
>
> I wonder if you can buy those rubber bullet claymore mines they tested out
> on Jackass?
> Perhaps install a fire suppression system under the awning of your store
> but plumb it up to pepper spray.
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>
> Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM  wrote:
>
> Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
>
> What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
>
> I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam.
> I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown and
> busting heads of those that did not clear out.  Actually one of my first
> telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
>
> Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy?  I don’t get it.
> Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you is
> pretty childish.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies

Title: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

A plane crashes in a field. There is raw video footage of the burning ruble. There are no survivors. Truly a very sad event. Everyone turns into their news network of choice. All networks can agree that a plane has crashed, there are no survivors, and there is no evidence to tell us why. However, that story is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time. The networks must fuel that 24/7 news. They start bringing in the "experts".

Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot down with a missile. They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have happened. They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments. They get leaked documents from unnamed sources saying they heard chatter about a major event that was about to happen.

Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have happened. They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments. They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed sources showing repair history of the plane.

Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this could have happened. They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments. They get whistle-blower documents from unnamed sources showing pilot's past history. They interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend that broke up with him the day before.

This continues for days or weeks. It moves from the networks to social media and blog sites. At the beginning all could agree a plane crashed in a field and everyone died. But now after weeks of being bombarded by multiple "expert" theories, people have taken sides.

2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into a large flock of birds that blew its engines. A one in a million stroke of bad luck for the people on the plane. But it doesn't matter.

Some people will believe it was a missile and the government is covering it up to protect (fill in the blank)
Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and the government is covering it up to protect the plane builder
Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the government is covering it up to protect the airlines
Some people will believe that the whole thing was staged and never happened

All of the above people will agree on one thing. If you don't agree with them, your are an idiot.
All of the above people will continue to argue with each other for months. They may disown family members that don't agree with them. They may vandalize property of people that don't agree with them. They may harm people that don't agree with them. But in their minds they are right and the others a idiots, it is all acceptable.

There is a small amount of people that will realize a plane crash in a field, everyone died and there was a 2 month investigation. They will accept the results and move on with their lives.

--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

Monday, July 20, 2020, 5:06:47 PM, you wrote:

Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just googling for the answer they wanted and then reading blogs they already agreed with. Watching live streams of current events as they unfold would be on a whole other level, but I definitely do not have time in my day for that. I don't know how you manage it. One problem with that approach though is you can't cite any of it. I have to take your word for what you saw and how you interpreted it, and that's not actually different from choosing to believe in whatever any given news agency presents me with.
I'd 95% agree with premise A, with the 5% being that there are always grey areas. You could always imagine scenarios where we must choose to infringe one person's rights over another's (The Trolley Problem, or any of 10,000 variations). Definitely protesters blocking traffic without a permit is not ok.
Covid or not, screaming in someone's face will instigate or escalate violence. Yes that's not ok.
Destruction of property, also not ok.
But the conclusion: "That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"". Huh? There are still several orders of magnitude more people marching than there are people damaging property, blocking traffic, etc.
I won't go point by point in the characterization of what deputized federal agents are or aren't doing in Portland.I think you are largely correct in what they're doing and that they have the authority to do it. The question is whether they should be exercising that authority in this time and place, especially when local authorities are asking them not to. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I have trouble accepting this hardline interpretation.

On 7/20/2020 3:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Watch

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

gimp in the periphery
> smashing a window and slinking off. The mob instinctively follows. By
> design.
>
> The first tagging, skateboard gimp tags and drops cans of paint, then
> slinks off. (but you have to ask where the rest of the cans come from. you
> dont bring spray paint to a "peaceful" protest.
>
> Tow straps are part of a peaceful protest? I didnt realize, but theyre all
> there ready to pull statues down, regardless of the history of the statues.
>
> CHAZ/CHOP/CHUMP was a summer of love, remember? remember the locals loved
> it. totally peaceful. Except for the fact the locals were held hostage and
> have actually filed lawsuit as such not peaceful, we wont even discuss
> the murders, rapes, and theft.
>
> When local governments dont protect their citizens from lawless
> "protesters" infringing on their liberties, the federal government has the
> responsibility to liberate the citizens under siege. Or the citizen has the
> right to aptly address those who would infringe. You dont get to decide the
> level of threat another person feels by your choice to infringe. period,
> its not up for discussion. If you think it is, you are the epitome of a
> fascist, that is not how liberty works.
>
> As for these "jackboots" being unidentified, that is a lie, they are
> identified as police, and nowhere in the constitution does it say the
> government is mandated to tell you anything about what they are doing to
> others. The use of "unmarked vehicles" is also a lie A. those vehicles have
> license plates. B. Nowhere does it say transportation must be identified as
> law enforcement. As a matter of fact existing caselaw specifically states
> otherwise.
>
> These "peaceful protesters" being snatched up and whisked away to
> locations are having their minds wiped? nope. They know where they went,
> who took them and why. Just because they give a media interview stating
> otherwise doesnt make it so. If thatat is the case in isolated incidents,
> that will ultimately be handled as an egregious violation of rights...
> wanna bet CNN doesnt do any follow ups with these "victims" though?
>
> so to anyone calling this bullshit "peaceful" I say ROTFLMAO, because
> there is no way to have any real discussion with anyone not operating in
> reality.
>
> Fact of the matter is, local and state government inept response and their
> actively condoning the infringement of citizens personal liberties by one
> group over another in an enlightened 2020 is what is going to lead to
> bloodshed, much sooner than later. It wont have anything to do with skin
> tone or who lays with who either.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> People can disagree.  If we can do it politely then we won't need lent
>> rules.  Instead of laughing, tell me what the fault in my reasoning is and
>> explain yours.  Or tell me what my incorrect fact is with a citation
>> showing what the correct fact is.  We'd be in better shape if we could do
>> that without lashing out.
>>
>> I feel like we (the country) can't even talk about this stuff anymore.
>> We've removed all nuance from discussing complex topics and reduced it to
>> meme politics.  We express an opinion with a picture and a one liner, and
>> whether you agree or disagree puts you on one team or another.  Then we
>> angrily shriek at each other about it.  THAT fatigues me more than ongoing
>> protests ever could.  No vote we can make will change any of that, but
>> maybe we can all change that part of ourselves.
>>
>>
>> On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> ROTFLMAO
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh I don't know about that.  If a bunch of angry people assemble
>>> peacefully, it wouldn't take much for them to stop being peaceful.
>>>
>>> There are accelerationists who absolutely want to start a civil war, but
>>> they're a fringe movement and giving them too much credit is the same
>>> mistake as giving "Antifa" too much credit.  IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> The BLM protestors are almost completely peaceful. It's groups like
>>> boogaloo who are creating all the ruckus.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these kids have been
>>> going nuts for a couple of months.
>>> I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to protest.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

identified, that is a lie, they are 
identified as police, and nowhere in the constitution does it say the 
government is mandated to tell you anything about what they are doing 
to others. The use of "unmarked vehicles" is also a lie A. those 
vehicles have license plates. B. Nowhere does it say transportation 
must be identified as law enforcement. As a matter of fact existing 
caselaw specifically states otherwise.


These "peaceful protesters" being snatched up and whisked away to 
locations are having their minds wiped? nope. They know where they 
went, who took them and why. Just because they give a media interview 
stating otherwise doesnt make it so. If thatat is the case in isolated 
incidents, that will ultimately be handled as an egregious violation 
of rights... wanna bet CNN doesnt do any follow ups with these 
"victims" though?


so to anyone calling this bullshit "peaceful" I say ROTFLMAO, because 
there is no way to have any real discussion with anyone not operating 
in reality.


Fact of the matter is, local and state government inept response and 
their actively condoning the infringement of citizens personal 
liberties by one group over another in an enlightened 2020 is what is 
going to lead to bloodshed, much sooner than later. It wont have 
anything to do with skin tone or who lays with who either.



On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


People can disagree.  If we can do it politely then we won't need
lent rules.  Instead of laughing, tell me what the fault in my
reasoning is and explain yours.  Or tell me what my incorrect fact
is with a citation showing what the correct fact is.  We'd be in
better shape if we could do that without lashing out.

I feel like we (the country) can't even talk about this stuff
anymore.  We've removed all nuance from discussing complex topics
and reduced it to meme politics.  We express an opinion with a
picture and a one liner, and whether you agree or disagree puts
you on one team or another.  Then we angrily shriek at each other
about it. THAT fatigues me more than ongoing protests ever could.
No vote we can make will change any of that, but maybe we can all
change that part of ourselves.


On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

ROTFLMAO

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Oh I don't know about that.  If a bunch of angry people
assemble peacefully, it wouldn't take much for them to stop
being peaceful.

There are accelerationists who absolutely want to start a
civil war, but they're a fringe movement and giving them too
much credit is the same mistake as giving "Antifa" too much
credit.  IMO.


On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


The BLM protestors are almost completely peaceful. It's
groups like boogaloo who are creating all the ruckus.

bp


On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these kids
have been going nuts for a couple of months.
I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to protest.
(Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F, holidays excluded, not on
streets, must provide porta potties)
I don’t respect defacing or harming anyone’s property,
public or not. Burning, occupying etc.
I really don’t know what their cause is.  Other than
against police brutality. That is a good cause.
Will setting fire to the police building help their cause?
I wonder if you can buy those rubber bullet claymore mines
they tested out on Jackass?
Perhaps install a fire suppression system under the awning
of your store but plumb it up to pepper spray.
    *From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM  wrote:

Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and
70s over Vietnam.
I also remember a line of State Police walking through
a park downtown and busting heads of those that did not
clear out.  Actually one of my first telco bosses had
been one of those State Bull Cops.
Are young white kids just aching for a chance at
anarchy?  I don’t get it.
Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble
cause around

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

I could tell you about a JW incident with making the mistake of answering,
thats why I only open the door for the whiteshirts and ties now. Those guys
know when to quit, the witnesses on the other hand scare the shit out of
me. But in that case the daught they tried placing me with wasnt a terrible
looker, I wouldnt have been suprised if i woke up to her on the bedside if
my mom hadnt threatened a restraining order.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:58 PM  wrote:

> If you decide my storefront is now in your occupy/chop zone, I want the
> government to take your liberty away.  Right now.
>
> And it depends on how pretty that Mormon missionary girl is that wakes me
> up by sitting on my bed...
> Mormon girl wakes me up all the time.  I don’t mind.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 2:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>
> you dont always have to want to be something you are. You dont have
> authority over anothers  liberty. Youre more than welcome to cede as much
> liberty of your own as you chose to create yourself whatever region you
> feel you want between your liberties and someone else's. Agreement doesnt
> come without discussion, youll get no discussion as long as youre impending
> anothers liberty who hasnt ceded any to you. At one point your only result
> will be a violent reclamation of liberty you stepped on, or you become a
> slave master.
> Let me give you an example of opening a line of communication, vs your
> expectation. Opening a line of communication is the mormons knocking on
> your door and asking if youd like to talk about their book (we wont nitpick
> the details of solicitation permits, etc). That is honoring your fellow
> persons liberty while asking them to cede theres for actual dialogue. Now,
> what you promote is waking up to a mormon sitting on your bed "peacefully"
> asking if youd like to talk about their book.
>
> Asking to talk about a book is in itself peaceful. But since the latter
> involved infringing anothers liberty, its not peaceful, nor is it about
> discussion or dialogue. There is no grey area. Calling the act out of
> context peaceful is not just incorrect, it is cowardly.
>
> I have no issue with violence, violence is necessary. But if violence is
> the way, then be violent, do not call it peace, eventually those who are
> much more violent, while choosing peace will no longer tolerate the
> childish games.
>
> Once again, you only have authority over your liberty and no one elses.
> Until you stop demanding the right to infringe on someone elses liberty,
> you are not peaceful, you are not initiating dialogue and while hiding
> behind "rights" you are a fascist.
>
> You also have no authority to dictate ones response to you choosing to
> infringe on their liberty, you only have the authority to suffer the
> consequences and learn from it.
>
> Im a pure anarchist by nature, Im trapped in a"civilized" society, So I
> choose to claim statism, because im a libertarian who doesnt prefer dresses
> and cowardice. I was blessed to be born in a constitutional republic that
> means no man dictates where my liberty begins or ends, I have no
> expectation of anything less for him either.
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:33 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Completely the opposite. I do not want to be a fascist. What I'm saying
>> is there needs to be more nuance and or space between. If everything is
>> black and white, then there is no room for agreement.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 7/20/2020 1:23 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> if you think you have any right to infringe on anothers liberty, then you
>> dont want a discussion, you want to be a fascist, so there isnt anything to
>> really discuss. If you think you have more right to public domain than
>> someone else, you want to be a fascist, there isnt really anything to
>> discuss. You see, the government is not there to allow one citizen to have
>> more "rights" than another. There isnt room for any discussion if you
>> preface it in another first giving up their liberty to open a line of
>> communication with you. Now if beforehand you want to negotiate some
>> lenience on anothers liberty, that is an option, but the moment you condone
>> infringement, youve simply asked for altercation. Thats the problem with
>> disguising tyranny as dialogue, you only get dialogue if youre a fair
>> participant and the nonsense of calling it dialogue is as thin as the line
>> between two persons liberty (nonexistent)
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:29 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> I completely disagree with your not

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

If you decide my storefront is now in your occupy/chop zone, I want the 
government to take your liberty away.  Right now.  

And it depends on how pretty that Mormon missionary girl is that wakes me up by 
sitting on my bed...
Mormon girl wakes me up all the time.  I don’t mind.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 2:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

you dont always have to want to be something you are. You dont have authority 
over anothers  liberty. Youre more than welcome to cede as much liberty of your 
own as you chose to create yourself whatever region you feel you want between 
your liberties and someone else's. Agreement doesnt come without discussion, 
youll get no discussion as long as youre impending anothers liberty who hasnt 
ceded any to you. At one point your only result will be a violent reclamation 
of liberty you stepped on, or you become a slave master.  
Let me give you an example of opening a line of communication, vs your 
expectation. Opening a line of communication is the mormons knocking on your 
door and asking if youd like to talk about their book (we wont nitpick the 
details of solicitation permits, etc). That is honoring your fellow persons 
liberty while asking them to cede theres for actual dialogue. Now, what you 
promote is waking up to a mormon sitting on your bed "peacefully" asking if 
youd like to talk about their book.

Asking to talk about a book is in itself peaceful. But since the latter 
involved infringing anothers liberty, its not peaceful, nor is it about 
discussion or dialogue. There is no grey area. Calling the act out of context 
peaceful is not just incorrect, it is cowardly.

I have no issue with violence, violence is necessary. But if violence is the 
way, then be violent, do not call it peace, eventually those who are much more 
violent, while choosing peace will no longer tolerate the childish games.

Once again, you only have authority over your liberty and no one elses. Until 
you stop demanding the right to infringe on someone elses liberty, you are not 
peaceful, you are not initiating dialogue and while hiding behind "rights" you 
are a fascist. 

You also have no authority to dictate ones response to you choosing to infringe 
on their liberty, you only have the authority to suffer the consequences and 
learn from it.

Im a pure anarchist by nature, Im trapped in a"civilized" society, So I choose 
to claim statism, because im a libertarian who doesnt prefer dresses and 
cowardice. I was blessed to be born in a constitutional republic that means no 
man dictates where my liberty begins or ends, I have no expectation of anything 
less for him either.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:33 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  Completely the opposite. I do not want to be a fascist. What I'm saying is 
there needs to be more nuance and or space between. If everything is black and 
white, then there is no room for agreement.

bp

On 7/20/2020 1:23 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

if you think you have any right to infringe on anothers liberty, then you 
dont want a discussion, you want to be a fascist, so there isnt anything to 
really discuss. If you think you have more right to public domain than someone 
else, you want to be a fascist, there isnt really anything to discuss. You see, 
the government is not there to allow one citizen to have more "rights" than 
another. There isnt room for any discussion if you preface it in another first 
giving up their liberty to open a line of communication with you. Now if 
beforehand you want to negotiate some lenience on anothers liberty, that is an 
option, but the moment you condone infringement, youve simply asked for 
altercation. Thats the problem with disguising tyranny as dialogue, you only 
get dialogue if youre a fair participant and the nonsense of calling it 
dialogue is as thin as the line between two persons liberty (nonexistent)

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:29 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  I completely disagree with your notion of black and white. To me it is 
all gray, or shades of gray, and that is where we are getting off on the wrong 
foot. As soon as we start to discuss things in the context of multiple points 
of view we will start to get somewhere.

bp

On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Watch the skateboards. 
I dont watch news footage, or much released video of the happenings, 
because its all edited for predetermined context. I watch live streams as 
things happen from the ground. 

A. stopping anyones freedom of movement without permit is not peaceful, 
period. That makes every instance of blocking traffic non peaceful. Your rights 
end where mine begin, mine end where yours begin, there is no grey area, no 
overlap and nothing to discuss, it is simply fact. I mention permit because as 
a civilized society we have accepted the fact that we will occasionally give up 
some

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

I do see some black and white.  Leave my property, person and family alone.  
That is a bright line.  
And leave others alone likewise.  
Don’t block access to my business with your protest.  And I want the government 
to protect that.  

If you are interfering with my right to do commerce, I want you to temporarily 
lose your liberty.  

As far as “the commons” go (public works, lands etc) there are many shades of 
gray.  Stay the hell off my fishing/grazing/mining grounds but everyone gets to 
share the park.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 2:32 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

Completely the opposite. I do not want to be a fascist. What I'm saying is 
there needs to be more nuance and or space between. If everything is black and 
white, then there is no room for agreement.


bp


On 7/20/2020 1:23 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  if you think you have any right to infringe on anothers liberty, then you 
dont want a discussion, you want to be a fascist, so there isnt anything to 
really discuss. If you think you have more right to public domain than someone 
else, you want to be a fascist, there isnt really anything to discuss. You see, 
the government is not there to allow one citizen to have more "rights" than 
another. There isnt room for any discussion if you preface it in another first 
giving up their liberty to open a line of communication with you. Now if 
beforehand you want to negotiate some lenience on anothers liberty, that is an 
option, but the moment you condone infringement, youve simply asked for 
altercation. Thats the problem with disguising tyranny as dialogue, you only 
get dialogue if youre a fair participant and the nonsense of calling it 
dialogue is as thin as the line between two persons liberty (nonexistent)

  On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:29 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

I completely disagree with your notion of black and white. To me it is all 
gray, or shades of gray, and that is where we are getting off on the wrong 
foot. As soon as we start to discuss things in the context of multiple points 
of view we will start to get somewhere.



bp


On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  Watch the skateboards. 
  I dont watch news footage, or much released video of the happenings, 
because its all edited for predetermined context. I watch live streams as 
things happen from the ground. 

  A. stopping anyones freedom of movement without permit is not peaceful, 
period. That makes every instance of blocking traffic non peaceful. Your rights 
end where mine begin, mine end where yours begin, there is no grey area, no 
overlap and nothing to discuss, it is simply fact. I mention permit because as 
a civilized society we have accepted the fact that we will occasionally give up 
some liberty for sanctioned events following an agreed upon protocol, hence 
permits. Whether that be a protest, fair, carnival, concert, road show.
  B. Given the covid nonsense, screaming in someones face is in fact 
violence (in illinois if spiddle hits, its aggravated battery right now). Once 
again, not non violent.
  C. Destruction/defacement of public property is not nonviolent. public 
property belongs to all people, not just those who belive that they are the 
only ones in "We the People". "street art" is not an acceptable form of protest 
as it is defacement of public property.

  That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"

  Now, back to the skateboards. If you watch livestreams, the skateboads 
are new this riot season/election year. I couldnt figure out when this season 
started where all the usual occupy mob was at. Then I realized they brought 
about new tactics. The skateboards. They offer mobility, they are an excellent 
cudgel weapon, they can be handled even when jumping fences without losing 
transport. And best yet, there is no surface that holds fingerprints well.

  If you watch livestreams, or can find unedited footage (good luck with 
that) youll see the skateboards present when the violence starts. In almost all 
instances, the first broken window is a hooded gimp in the periphery smashing a 
window and slinking off. The mob instinctively follows. By design.

  The first tagging, skateboard gimp tags and drops cans of paint, then 
slinks off. (but you have to ask where the rest of the cans come from. you dont 
bring spray paint to a "peaceful" protest. 

  Tow straps are part of a peaceful protest? I didnt realize, but theyre 
all there ready to pull statues down, regardless of the history of the statues.

  CHAZ/CHOP/CHUMP was a summer of love, remember? remember the locals loved 
it. totally peaceful. Except for the fact the locals were held hostage and have 
actually filed lawsuit as such not peaceful, we wont even discuss the 
murders, rapes, and theft.

  When local governments dont protect their citizens from lawless 
"

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

plex topics and reduced it to
>>> meme politics.  We express an opinion with a picture and a one liner, and
>>> whether you agree or disagree puts you on one team or another.  Then we
>>> angrily shriek at each other about it.  THAT fatigues me more than ongoing
>>> protests ever could.  No vote we can make will change any of that, but
>>> maybe we can all change that part of ourselves.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> ROTFLMAO
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh I don't know about that.  If a bunch of angry people assemble
>>>> peacefully, it wouldn't take much for them to stop being peaceful.
>>>>
>>>> There are accelerationists who absolutely want to start a civil war,
>>>> but they're a fringe movement and giving them too much credit is the same
>>>> mistake as giving "Antifa" too much credit.  IMO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The BLM protestors are almost completely peaceful. It's groups like
>>>> boogaloo who are creating all the ruckus.
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these kids have been
>>>> going nuts for a couple of months.
>>>> I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to protest.
>>>> (Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F, holidays excluded, not on streets,
>>>> must provide porta potties)
>>>>
>>>> I don’t respect defacing or harming anyone’s property, public or not.
>>>> Burning, occupying etc.
>>>>
>>>> I really don’t know what their cause is.  Other than against police
>>>> brutality.  That is a good cause.
>>>> Will setting fire to the police building help their cause?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if you can buy those rubber bullet claymore mines they tested
>>>> out on Jackass?
>>>> Perhaps install a fire suppression system under the awning of your
>>>> store but plumb it up to pepper spray.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>>>>
>>>> Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over
>>>>> Vietnam.
>>>>> I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown
>>>>> and busting heads of those that did not clear out.  Actually one of my
>>>>> first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy?  I don’t get
>>>>> it.
>>>>> Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you
>>>>> is pretty childish.
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

I guess if your town isn’t “run by liberal Democrats”, you’re safe.  Crime
stats do tend to agree

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:27 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> So now Chicago Tribune reports Trump is sending 150 federal agents of some
> kind to Chicago, which is not having protest problems or riots, but
> shootings which I assume is mostly gang related.
>
>
>
> OK, just because words come out of Trump’s mouth doesn’t mean that’s what
> is actually happening, but this sure sounds like it’s politically motivated:
>
>
>
> "I'm going to do something — that, I can tell you," Trump said. "Because
> we're not going to let New York and Chicago and Philadelphia and Detroit
> and Baltimore and all of these — Oakland is a mess. We're not going to let
> this happen in our country. All run by liberal Democrats."
>
>
>
> I guess if your town isn’t “run by liberal Democrats”, you’re safe.  For
> now.  Maybe next they crack down on the Mormons.  Because, I don’t know,
> maybe polygamy?  Maybe it’s un-American not to drink coffee and booze?
> Maybe to seize your Vienna sausages?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 2:29 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>
>
>
> I completely disagree with your notion of black and white. To me it is all
> gray, or shades of gray, and that is where we are getting off on the wrong
> foot. As soon as we start to discuss things in the context of multiple
> points of view we will start to get somewhere.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Watch the skateboards.
>
> I dont watch news footage, or much released video of the happenings,
> because its all edited for predetermined context. I watch live streams as
> things happen from the ground.
>
>
>
> A. stopping anyones freedom of movement without permit is not peaceful,
> period. That makes every instance of blocking traffic non peaceful. Your
> rights end where mine begin, mine end where yours begin, there is no grey
> area, no overlap and nothing to discuss, it is simply fact. I mention
> permit because as a civilized society we have accepted the fact that we
> will occasionally give up some liberty for sanctioned events following an
> agreed upon protocol, hence permits. Whether that be a protest, fair,
> carnival, concert, road show.
>
> B. Given the covid nonsense, screaming in someones face is in fact
> violence (in illinois if spiddle hits, its aggravated battery right now).
> Once again, not non violent.
>
> C. Destruction/defacement of public property is not nonviolent. public
> property belongs to all people, not just those who belive that they are the
> only ones in "We the People". "street art" is not an acceptable form of
> protest as it is defacement of public property.
>
>
>
> That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"
>
>
>
> Now, back to the skateboards. If you watch livestreams, the skateboads are
> new this riot season/election year. I couldnt figure out when this season
> started where all the usual occupy mob was at. Then I realized they brought
> about new tactics. The skateboards. They offer mobility, they are an
> excellent cudgel weapon, they can be handled even when jumping fences
> without losing transport. And best yet, there is no surface that holds
> fingerprints well.
>
>
>
> If you watch livestreams, or can find unedited footage (good luck with
> that) youll see the skateboards present when the violence starts. In almost
> all instances, the first broken window is a hooded gimp in the periphery
> smashing a window and slinking off. The mob instinctively follows. By
> design.
>
>
>
> The first tagging, skateboard gimp tags and drops cans of paint, then
> slinks off. (but you have to ask where the rest of the cans come from. you
> dont bring spray paint to a "peaceful" protest.
>
>
>
> Tow straps are part of a peaceful protest? I didnt realize, but theyre all
> there ready to pull statues down, regardless of the history of the statues.
>
>
>
> CHAZ/CHOP/CHUMP was a summer of love, remember? remember the locals loved
> it. totally peaceful. Except for the fact the locals were held hostage and
> have actually filed lawsuit as such not peaceful, we wont even discuss
> the murders, rapes, and theft.
>
>
>
> When local governments dont protect their citizens from lawless
> "protesters" infringing on their liberties, the federal government has the
> responsibility to liberate the citizens under siege. Or the citizen has the
> right to aptly address those who would infringe. You d

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Bill Prince

ourselves.



On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:


  ROTFLMAO
  
  
On Mon, Jul
  20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  
Oh I don't know about that.  If a bunch
  of angry people assemble peacefully, it
  wouldn't take much for them to stop being
  peaceful.  

There are accelerationists who absolutely
  want to start a civil war, but they're a
  fringe movement and giving them too much
  credit is the same mistake as giving
  "Antifa" too much credit.  IMO.



On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince
  wrote:


  The BLM protestors are almost
completely peaceful. It's groups like
boogaloo who are creating all the
ruckus.
  
  bp



  On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:
  
  

  
Federal Hitler tactics are just
  a recent thing, these kids have
  been going nuts for a couple of
  months.  
I respect anyone’s right to
  PEACEFULLY assemble and to
  protest.
(Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm
  M-F, holidays excluded, not on
  streets, must provide porta
  potties)
 
I don’t respect defacing or
  harming anyone’s property, public
  or not.  Burning, occupying etc. 

 
I really don’t know what their
  cause is.  Other than against
  police brutality.  That is a good
  cause.
Will setting fire to the police
  building help their cause?
 
I wonder if you can buy those
  rubber bullet claymore mines they
  tested out on Jackass?
Perhaps install a fire
  suppression system under the
  awning of your store but plumb it
  up to pepper spray.  
 

  
 

  From: Jaime
  Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, July
20, 2020 8:35 AM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group
          
  Subject: Re:
[AFMUG] OT - political

  
   


  Hitler tactics by Bunker
Boy...there , I said it.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

So now Chicago Tribune reports Trump is sending 150 federal agents of some kind 
to Chicago, which is not having protest problems or riots, but shootings which 
I assume is mostly gang related.

 

OK, just because words come out of Trump’s mouth doesn’t mean that’s what is 
actually happening, but this sure sounds like it’s politically motivated:

 

"I'm going to do something — that, I can tell you," Trump said. "Because we're 
not going to let New York and Chicago and Philadelphia and Detroit and 
Baltimore and all of these — Oakland is a mess. We're not going to let this 
happen in our country. All run by liberal Democrats."

 

I guess if your town isn’t “run by liberal Democrats”, you’re safe.  For now.  
Maybe next they crack down on the Mormons.  Because, I don’t know, maybe 
polygamy?  Maybe it’s un-American not to drink coffee and booze?  Maybe to 
seize your Vienna sausages?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 2:29 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

 

I completely disagree with your notion of black and white. To me it is all 
gray, or shades of gray, and that is where we are getting off on the wrong 
foot. As soon as we start to discuss things in the context of multiple points 
of view we will start to get somewhere.

 

bp

 

On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Watch the skateboards. 

I dont watch news footage, or much released video of the happenings, because 
its all edited for predetermined context. I watch live streams as things happen 
from the ground. 

 

A. stopping anyones freedom of movement without permit is not peaceful, period. 
That makes every instance of blocking traffic non peaceful. Your rights end 
where mine begin, mine end where yours begin, there is no grey area, no overlap 
and nothing to discuss, it is simply fact. I mention permit because as a 
civilized society we have accepted the fact that we will occasionally give up 
some liberty for sanctioned events following an agreed upon protocol, hence 
permits. Whether that be a protest, fair, carnival, concert, road show.

B. Given the covid nonsense, screaming in someones face is in fact violence (in 
illinois if spiddle hits, its aggravated battery right now). Once again, not 
non violent.

C. Destruction/defacement of public property is not nonviolent. public property 
belongs to all people, not just those who belive that they are the only ones in 
"We the People". "street art" is not an acceptable form of protest as it is 
defacement of public property.

 

That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"

 

Now, back to the skateboards. If you watch livestreams, the skateboads are new 
this riot season/election year. I couldnt figure out when this season started 
where all the usual occupy mob was at. Then I realized they brought about new 
tactics. The skateboards. They offer mobility, they are an excellent cudgel 
weapon, they can be handled even when jumping fences without losing transport. 
And best yet, there is no surface that holds fingerprints well.

 

If you watch livestreams, or can find unedited footage (good luck with that) 
youll see the skateboards present when the violence starts. In almost all 
instances, the first broken window is a hooded gimp in the periphery smashing a 
window and slinking off. The mob instinctively follows. By design.

 

The first tagging, skateboard gimp tags and drops cans of paint, then slinks 
off. (but you have to ask where the rest of the cans come from. you dont bring 
spray paint to a "peaceful" protest. 

 

Tow straps are part of a peaceful protest? I didnt realize, but theyre all 
there ready to pull statues down, regardless of the history of the statues.

 

CHAZ/CHOP/CHUMP was a summer of love, remember? remember the locals loved it. 
totally peaceful. Except for the fact the locals were held hostage and have 
actually filed lawsuit as such not peaceful, we wont even discuss the 
murders, rapes, and theft.

 

When local governments dont protect their citizens from lawless "protesters" 
infringing on their liberties, the federal government has the responsibility to 
liberate the citizens under siege. Or the citizen has the right to aptly 
address those who would infringe. You dont get to decide the level of threat 
another person feels by your choice to infringe. period, its not up for 
discussion. If you think it is, you are the epitome of a fascist, that is not 
how liberty works.

 

As for these "jackboots" being unidentified, that is a lie, they are identified 
as police, and nowhere in the constitution does it say the government is 
mandated to tell you anything about what they are doing to others. The use of 
"unmarked vehicles" is also a lie A. those vehicles have license plates. B. 
Nowhere does it say transportation must be identified as law enforcement. As a 
matter of fact existin

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

libertarians just wear a different colored dress than liberals of today.
they both just dont want "this government" theyre equally a joke in that
regard, theyre both equally as violent in their determination of their
goal, one group disguises their violence as peace, the other as power,
either way theyre both two sides of the same worthless wooden nickel

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:27 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

>
> I'm not aware of any movement seeking no governance at all.  One could say
> that all parties have the ultimate goal of being governed  that they approve of>.  Even anarchy isn't no governance, if you look at
> the original meaning rather than the colloquial usage.
>
> If someone's goal is not to be governed at all, then what do they want?
> To be champion of the Thunderdome?
>
>
> On 7/20/2020 3:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I do this all the time with my libertarian friends. I always preface a
> conversation talking about how libertarians are just statists in a pretty
> dress. Sometimes ill throw in a taxation is not theft for good measure.
> Then no matter where it goes I point out their ultimate goal is to be
> governed.
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 1:18 PM  wrote:
>
>> I love arguing with my kids.  I will pick any position or even swap sides
>> mid argument.  Their spouses have finally figured out that I just love the
>> debate.  But the main thing I get out of it is exposure the new ideas.
>> They get a dose of reality.  One daughter in law refused to believe that
>> one could exist on $1000/month.  They one of my sons informed her that he
>> lived on less than that for several years.  Same daughter in law thought I
>> should be paying all my employees a minimum wage of $15.  I told her that
>> most of my employees do make that or more, but entry level jobs would not
>> exist if they had to do so.  Then she got on me for paying so low the
>> employees could not afford healthcare.  I informed her that we do provide
>> health care.  She stopped talking for a few minutes that afternoon...
>>
>> *From:* Brian Webster
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 12:10 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>>
>>
>> I didn’t assume that you were Adam. I pose questions or viewpoints for
>> the wider audience. Too often I am seeing polarizing views all over from
>> people who have never stopped to quietly consider the other side or
>> multiple sides to an issue. Put the shoe on the other foot has been lost as
>> a concept. The instant gratification society has lost their ability to have
>> a little pause and consider mentality (part of getting old I guess).
>> Whenever I have a chance to politely discuss situations with others and
>> pose some other possibilities in a situation, most people will be courteous
>> and say I guess I had never considered that point, or I was not aware of
>> that fact. When I also listen to their perspective on the same topic it
>> gives me other points to think about that I may not have known or thought
>> about. I am not one to have any illusions that I can change a person’s
>> beliefs or core values, but I do try and at least get a person to pause and
>> try to consider a different viewpoint or facts. I have no aspirations or
>> delusions that  I can get people to think the way I do or believe that I am
>> right on any particular topic. My upbringing and life experiences form a
>> different outlook than any other person and I believe every other person I
>> meet has experienced life in their own way that forms their own outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow I am sounding like some old coger rocking on the porch……..
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 1:49 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>>
>>
>>
>> I would definitely not approve of a CHAZ/CHOP type thing in my
>> neighborhood.  I'm not sure what I would do about it.  I suppose I'd
>> probably show up to their meetings and say bad things to them.  Then they'd
>> call me a fascist or something.  We'd have to see where it went from there.
>>
>> The executive order I referred to was signed by the president on June
>> 26th.  It was titled  “Protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and
>> Statues and Combating Recent Criminal Activity"
>>
>> I don't know what those federal agencies did in the absence of that
>> specific order.  Maybe they waited for an order?
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

quot;unmarked vehicles" is also a lie A. those vehicles have
> license plates. B. Nowhere does it say transportation must be identified as
> law enforcement. As a matter of fact existing caselaw specifically states
> otherwise.
>
> These "peaceful protesters" being snatched up and whisked away to
> locations are having their minds wiped? nope. They know where they went,
> who took them and why. Just because they give a media interview stating
> otherwise doesnt make it so. If thatat is the case in isolated incidents,
> that will ultimately be handled as an egregious violation of rights...
> wanna bet CNN doesnt do any follow ups with these "victims" though?
>
> so to anyone calling this bullshit "peaceful" I say ROTFLMAO, because
> there is no way to have any real discussion with anyone not operating in
> reality.
>
> Fact of the matter is, local and state government inept response and their
> actively condoning the infringement of citizens personal liberties by one
> group over another in an enlightened 2020 is what is going to lead to
> bloodshed, much sooner than later. It wont have anything to do with skin
> tone or who lays with who either.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> People can disagree.  If we can do it politely then we won't need lent
>> rules.  Instead of laughing, tell me what the fault in my reasoning is and
>> explain yours.  Or tell me what my incorrect fact is with a citation
>> showing what the correct fact is.  We'd be in better shape if we could do
>> that without lashing out.
>>
>> I feel like we (the country) can't even talk about this stuff anymore.
>> We've removed all nuance from discussing complex topics and reduced it to
>> meme politics.  We express an opinion with a picture and a one liner, and
>> whether you agree or disagree puts you on one team or another.  Then we
>> angrily shriek at each other about it.  THAT fatigues me more than ongoing
>> protests ever could.  No vote we can make will change any of that, but
>> maybe we can all change that part of ourselves.
>>
>>
>> On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> ROTFLMAO
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh I don't know about that.  If a bunch of angry people assemble
>>> peacefully, it wouldn't take much for them to stop being peaceful.
>>>
>>> There are accelerationists who absolutely want to start a civil war, but
>>> they're a fringe movement and giving them too much credit is the same
>>> mistake as giving "Antifa" too much credit.  IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> The BLM protestors are almost completely peaceful. It's groups like
>>> boogaloo who are creating all the ruckus.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these kids have been
>>> going nuts for a couple of months.
>>> I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to protest.
>>> (Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F, holidays excluded, not on streets,
>>> must provide porta potties)
>>>
>>> I don’t respect defacing or harming anyone’s property, public or not.
>>> Burning, occupying etc.
>>>
>>> I really don’t know what their cause is.  Other than against police
>>> brutality.  That is a good cause.
>>> Will setting fire to the police building help their cause?
>>>
>>> I wonder if you can buy those rubber bullet claymore mines they tested
>>> out on Jackass?
>>> Perhaps install a fire suppression system under the awning of your store
>>> but plumb it up to pepper spray.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
>>>
>>> Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
>>>>
>>>> What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
>>>>
>>>> I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam.
>>>> I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown
>>>> and busting heads of those that did not clear out.  Actually one of my
>>>> first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
>>>>
>>>> Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy?  I don’t get
>>>> it.
>>>> Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you is
>>>> pretty childish.
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

2020-07-20 Thread Bill Prince

   system under the awning of your store but
  plumb it up to pepper spray.  
 

  
 

  From: Jaime
  Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, July 20,
2020 8:35 AM
      To: AnimalFarm
      Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT -
political

  
   


  Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there
, I said it. 
   
  
On
  Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  wrote:


  

  
Not trying to break lent,
  but I am lacking
  understanding.
 
What are the young white
  kids rioting about in
  Portland?
 
I am from Oregon, I
  remember protests in the 60s
  and 70s over Vietnam.  
  I also remember a line of
  State Police walking through a
  park downtown and busting
  heads of those that did not
  clear out.  Actually one of my
  first telco bosses had been
  one of those State Bull Cops. 

 
Are young white kids just
  aching for a chance at
  anarchy?  I don’t get it.
Misbehaving while trying to
  wrap some kind of noble cause
  around you is pretty
  childish.  
  

  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
   
   -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  



  
  
  

  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  

  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - political