[AsburyPark] Re: Committee Meeting
Putting the specifics of the plan aside, which I have now reviewed, has anyone ever mentioned a time frame? When do people think that the plan will be fully realized (if ever). 20 years? I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am curious to hear whether people in this group (1) think these blocks will ever actually be developed like that and (2) if so, when? Whether I agree with the specifics of of the plan or not (and I do not agree with a relocated Stone Pony), my bigger concern is this pattern of tearing stuff down and starting projects to either never finish them, or to have blocks of vacant luxury condos. For example, wasn't the Wonder Bar almost torn down? And thankfully it wasn't and it is a fun place, and the Yappy Hour I saw was super busy. That operating motel was torn down and nothing built there, right? From when I moved here in 2004, the stores on Kingsley have been vacant. It looked like not long before 2004 there was at least a little deli or something there. Will the Lanes be torn down only to have a vacant lot? At the very least, if people will go in and tear down and/or remove existing businesses, please make sure something viable will go in its place. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Committee Meeting
The fact is the Palcace, Albion Hotel, Charms building, and many others that could have potentially been rehabilitated were torn down only to be still vacant lots. Though there are arguments as to whether or not these buildings were structurally sound, the fact is these buildings were still standing and even if they required major reconstruction or partial tear down/rebuild, the outcome would have been the same. Madison Marquette has always seemed to have the idea of moving the Stone Pony into the Casino. They almost tore down the WB but probably realized the land would sit vacant. These are thriving businesses that should be anchors of Ocean Ave. The Casino might sit in it's current state until MM goes ahead and builds a new Stone Pony on the east end. Or into the Heating Plant as also suggested by them. Both of which would leave Ocean Ave vacant and a landmark crushed. The NJ Museum of Contemporary Art wanted to lease the Heating Plant a couple of years ago as use for their main gallery but were foolishly turned down by MM. But the fact is the market will probably determine the time frame. The plan to build 28 townhomes at Kingsley and Asbury Ave seems like a good idea on paper... not sure if this also includes the Flamingo site. But at the same time, the Esperanza is still sitting vacant. At least a plan for this site would be nice. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@... wrote: Putting the specifics of the plan aside, which I have now reviewed, has anyone ever mentioned a time frame? When do people think that the plan will be fully realized (if ever). 20 years? I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am curious to hear whether people in this group (1) think these blocks will ever actually be developed like that and (2) if so, when? Whether I agree with the specifics of of the plan or not (and I do not agree with a relocated Stone Pony), my bigger concern is this pattern of tearing stuff down and starting projects to either never finish them, or to have blocks of vacant luxury condos. For example, wasn't the Wonder Bar almost torn down? And thankfully it wasn't and it is a fun place, and the Yappy Hour I saw was super busy. That operating motel was torn down and nothing built there, right? From when I moved here in 2004, the stores on Kingsley have been vacant. It looked like not long before 2004 there was at least a little deli or something there. Will the Lanes be torn down only to have a vacant lot? At the very least, if people will go in and tear down and/or remove existing businesses, please make sure something viable will go in its place. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@... wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the city engineer look into it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the city engineer look into it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
The Big Dig. tunnel it. or raise the plaza. How much would that be worth by vacating streets and does the city get any $. And if the character of the Pony were recreated, either at current site in a new, safer building, would that be so bad? If springsteen were to play in a new pony, would people line-up or boycott it? By the way, the old man was on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon last night. Great performance. While the WB is great, the doggie bar unfortunately is prime real estate. Maybe someone would leave the ground space open for an open air bar and build above it. Considering I'm 50 now, we're not really planning that much for us, but for the next few rounds or party animals, investors, residents and tourists. Our days our numbered. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Committee Meeting
I think you do have to go back and read it. At the end of the day, the changes, and I can think of more changes in my mind brought out at the meeting, will result in a lower number of units that can be built. I dont know why everyone cannot understand that we all (committee, council and citizens) are working against the backdrop of that the developer can build whats in the plan right now. If you want to ask for something that you know uou can get what is the use of that? We considered lower heights or setbacks. Of course the developer didnt want any setbacks. Setbacks make a building harder and more expensive to build. Ocean Ave is very wide and there is a beach there. The east/west avenues flare out. Its very open there and in my opinion it can take 4 stories although I would be happier with 1 or 2. We have not gotten to the design elements or specifics so we know about story height etc. And as came out at the meeting, there is an attempt to rescue property owners who are caught in limbo - eminent domain. So perhaps you have to throw the dog a bone. And certainly the north end can use some higher building heights in places with appropriate setbacks and yard requirements. I dont think it came out in documents but along Sunset the buildings have to be set back from the property line even at the first story. In retrospect I think we need to do that as well everywhere else except Ocean Ave and Cookman and Lake. I think we also need to make the existing grass ribbons at the curb a requirement (presently not). Most of you know me and remember how I've spoken at the microphone in the past. I am not someone who bows to developers. In fact I gave Partners and MM a headache during these meetings. But I am a realist if nothing else. This is a fine balance here or directing development in an appropriate manner. Folks have to separate in their minds what is the Plan (essentially zoning and design) and the Deal (the developer's rights). This is the public's opportunity to be heard. The city is not kidding when it says it wants to hear the public. That was a mandate from the very first meeting. The first thing we spoke about was the need and point to bring in the public. There are those who will say we violated laws by meeting in private. It would have been counterproductive believe me. You know how it goes. Many of us gave up a lot of time on this. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@... wrote: I glanced over this draft plan. Wow. Look like instead of proposing something more beachy, you are proposing Pier Village x 3. Why? Raising the height allowances along Ocean Ave, Kingsley, Heck etc. A set back after only 4 stories?? When was the last time you walked down Cookman Ave? While the report stated the view corridor didn't really matter along kingsley because you really can't see the ocean anyway? I guess you will wind up with what Larry called it originally, SOHO by the sea or something like that. http://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/09/nyregion/soho-by-the-sea-asbury-park-advances-but-cautiously.html?pagewanted=2src=pm Blocking off Cookman looks like a nice idea on the surface but you then totally zone off the downtown. you might say that will draw the beach and downtown together, but I bet if you ask the downtown merchants, they'd like to see the cars come down cookman. Closing off Lake Ave/Wesley whatever is a better idea. I'd add a middle row of parking as well and do what was talked about years ago, extending a boardwalk or path from the casino, down along wesley lake to the downtown witha few sitting areas along the lake and path. It would be real neat. The age old argument here is people will either head from downtown to the boardwalk or from the BW to the downtown. A setback starting at the 4th floor is like no setback at all. I'd rather see a ground level setback off the sidewalk and let them overhang. And... better specify the height of each floor as well. Don't fall for that trap either. I wasn't gonna come back and comment as I am not supposed to for various reasons. This proposal - plan looks like someone is trying to put the city back in the city of asbury park - a true city by the sea. Maybe I have to go back and read this a little bit better. Well, best of luck with whatever happens. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
[AsburyPark] Re: Committee Meeting
Your issues are addressed in my other replies. What we are talking about is the Stone Pony outdoor stage. You are all wasting your time commenting here. Written comments will be accepted by the city till September 30. Get cracking. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@... wrote: Hi all, I have not been an active part of this group in quite some time. There were more important things in my life that became a priority but one thing that never changed is my growing love for the reborn city of Asbury Park. But after reading over the proposal today I felt the need to jump back in the conversation. As a planner/architect by profession, my personal opinion is that there is one major flaw in the Committee's report. I read over the entire report tonight and one thing that was not addressed is the chaning needs of a city that has grown since the redevelopment plan was drafted over a decade ago. No longer are tear downs necessary, the blight that plagued the city in the late 90s/early 2000s has all but dissappeared for most areas of the redevelopment zone. Nowhere is infill and rehab mentioned. It should be. Had it been implimented on existing structures 10 years ago, the beachfront would look like the downtown does. There was plenty of land for condos too, just like the developers desire. I'd also like to say the fact that the Stone Pony is being allowed to be threatened so easily is a joke. As some of you may remember, I originally joined this group years ago with an ambitious but perhaps unrealistic plan to incorporate the Stone Pony into a NJ music museum/hof and possible hotel. While just a vision of mine and perhaps pipe dream on my part (one that I'm sure is shared with countless others) I still submit this is the best possible use for the site. I even still have some rough sketches/plans saved... as time allows, I hope to be able to revive and improve upon them, even if just as a personal venture. Also, the Cookman Avenue closure proposal is ridiculous from a planning standpoint. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@ wrote: I would love to attend these sort of things, but my employment/mom duties generally prohibit me from doing so. Can you please give more of an overview of what was discussed generally? What are they planning? In general, the proposal involves changes to allowed building heights and types of uses throughout the redevelopment area. Additionally - several specific issues were addressed... the Bradley Cove Townhome project, allowing the Stone Pony to be demolished, and closure of a portion of Cookman Ave, among others. It is my understanding that the proposal will be posted on the City Website. I have the documents if anyone wants them before that. Comments are being accepted by mail and email. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Committee Meeting
Personally I think it will be a long time if ever that all the units will be built. My opinion has not changed in 7 years. Again, remember that the Plan has nothing to do (nor can it) with timeframes etc. That is in the Deal. I only wish I could change that. But I will tell you all as a real estate professional that one good thing that has happened is that the Fishmans are gone and iStar is here. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@... wrote: Putting the specifics of the plan aside, which I have now reviewed, has anyone ever mentioned a time frame? When do people think that the plan will be fully realized (if ever). 20 years? I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am curious to hear whether people in this group (1) think these blocks will ever actually be developed like that and (2) if so, when? Whether I agree with the specifics of of the plan or not (and I do not agree with a relocated Stone Pony), my bigger concern is this pattern of tearing stuff down and starting projects to either never finish them, or to have blocks of vacant luxury condos. For example, wasn't the Wonder Bar almost torn down? And thankfully it wasn't and it is a fun place, and the Yappy Hour I saw was super busy. That operating motel was torn down and nothing built there, right? From when I moved here in 2004, the stores on Kingsley have been vacant. It looked like not long before 2004 there was at least a little deli or something there. Will the Lanes be torn down only to have a vacant lot? At the very least, if people will go in and tear down and/or remove existing businesses, please make sure something viable will go in its place. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Oak, you missed the point. It is ALL prime real estate, most of which has been vacant for years and years. My concern that I expressed is the pattern of removing viable businesses with empty lots. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@... wrote: The Big Dig. tunnel it. or raise the plaza. How much would that be worth by vacating streets and does the city get any $. And if the character of the Pony were recreated, either at current site in a new, safer building, would that be so bad? If springsteen were to play in a new pony, would people line-up or boycott it? By the way, the old man was on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon last night. Great performance. While the WB is great, the doggie bar unfortunately is prime real estate. Maybe someone would leave the ground space open for an open air bar and build above it. Considering I'm 50 now, we're not really planning that much for us, but for the next few rounds or party animals, investors, residents and tourists. Our days our numbered. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@... wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the city engineer look into it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsav...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@... wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the city engineer look into it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the city engineer look into it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an
[AsburyPark] Re: Committee Meeting
Thanks, where can mail/email be sent specifically? Once again, pardon my ignorance on this point. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: Your issues are addressed in my other replies. What we are talking about is the Stone Pony outdoor stage. You are all wasting your time commenting here. Written comments will be accepted by the city till September 30. Get cracking. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Hi all, I have not been an active part of this group in quite some time. There were more important things in my life that became a priority but one thing that never changed is my growing love for the reborn city of Asbury Park. But after reading over the proposal today I felt the need to jump back in the conversation. As a planner/architect by profession, my personal opinion is that there is one major flaw in the Committee's report. I read over the entire report tonight and one thing that was not addressed is the chaning needs of a city that has grown since the redevelopment plan was drafted over a decade ago. No longer are tear downs necessary, the blight that plagued the city in the late 90s/early 2000s has all but dissappeared for most areas of the redevelopment zone. Nowhere is infill and rehab mentioned. It should be. Had it been implimented on existing structures 10 years ago, the beachfront would look like the downtown does. There was plenty of land for condos too, just like the developers desire. I'd also like to say the fact that the Stone Pony is being allowed to be threatened so easily is a joke. As some of you may remember, I originally joined this group years ago with an ambitious but perhaps unrealistic plan to incorporate the Stone Pony into a NJ music museum/hof and possible hotel. While just a vision of mine and perhaps pipe dream on my part (one that I'm sure is shared with countless others) I still submit this is the best possible use for the site. I even still have some rough sketches/plans saved... as time allows, I hope to be able to revive and improve upon them, even if just as a personal venture. Also, the Cookman Avenue closure proposal is ridiculous from a planning standpoint. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@ wrote: I would love to attend these sort of things, but my employment/mom duties generally prohibit me from doing so. Can you please give more of an overview of what was discussed generally? What are they planning? In general, the proposal involves changes to allowed building heights and types of uses throughout the redevelopment area. Additionally - several specific issues were addressed... the Bradley Cove Townhome project, allowing the Stone Pony to be demolished, and closure of a portion of Cookman Ave, among others. It is my understanding that the proposal will be posted on the City Website. I have the documents if anyone wants them before that. Comments are being accepted by mail and email. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I live a block away from the Stone Pony and have no problem with the Summer Stage events, other than unruly patrons wandering around residential neighborhoods. On the other hand, the Sunday night dance parties at Paradise are incredibly loud and they aren't always very good neighbors about it. I'm a professional sound engineer, and I measured the volume in my living room from one of these events at 90 db in my living room. They are also required to stop these shows at 10 pm, and on several occasions have gone on past 10:15 pm. That being said, I've heard that a condo development was slated for the lot's on the west side of Kingsley between 1st and AP Ave. I can't see how that's going to work out on the boarder of an entertainment zone. The Stone Pony in another location simply isn't The Stone Pony. Developers who want to relocate it, or portions of it are just marginalizing it to a brand name. Do we really want the Stone Pony to become the Original Ray's Pizza of AP? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@... wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplann...@gmail.com or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@... wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Could you fix that email address? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@... or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I do not want to say you are wasting your time making comments here, but if you are in lieu of making written comments to the committee then you are in fact wasting an opportunity to be heard. No one is drowning out your voices. Please make all comments to the committee in writing (and here if you wish). Don't let this chance to be heard go wasted. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@... wrote: I live a block away from the Stone Pony and have no problem with the Summer Stage events, other than unruly patrons wandering around residential neighborhoods. On the other hand, the Sunday night dance parties at Paradise are incredibly loud and they aren't always very good neighbors about it. I'm a professional sound engineer, and I measured the volume in my living room from one of these events at 90 db in my living room. They are also required to stop these shows at 10 pm, and on several occasions have gone on past 10:15 pm. That being said, I've heard that a condo development was slated for the lot's on the west side of Kingsley between 1st and AP Ave. I can't see how that's going to work out on the boarder of an entertainment zone. The Stone Pony in another location simply isn't The Stone Pony. Developers who want to relocate it, or portions of it are just marginalizing it to a brand name. Do we really want the Stone Pony to become the Original Ray's Pizza of AP? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@gmail. mailto:asburyplann...@gmail.com com mailto:asburyplann...@gmail.com or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@... wrote: Could you fix that email address? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
asburyplanningatgmaildotcom --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@gmail. mailto:asburyplanning@... com mailto:asburyplanning@... or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Could you fix that email address? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsav...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep in mind how we approached this entire process. To be open minded and fair. Personally I do not think it has a chance but lets see what the traffic consultant says. So in reality, and what maybe is not too clear from the documents is that the committee really rejected the idea and is only recommending that a traffic consultant and the city
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
http://www.app.com/article/20110919/NJNEWS/309190060/Park-use-urged-tract-Asbury --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: asburyplanningatgmaildotcom --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@gmail. mailto:asburyplanning@ com mailto:asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Could you fix that email address? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Thanks Dan. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: asburyplanningatgmaildotcom --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@gmail. mailto:asburyplanning@ com mailto:asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Could you fix that email address? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Please send your comments in in writing. You are preaching to the choir. The official venue is The committee's summary was to be available on the city website: cityofasburypark.com. The planning department is seeking additional feedback and comments until Sept. 30. Those comments can be emailed to asburyplanning@ or mailed to Asbury Park City Hall, Attention: WRP Committee, One Municpal Plaza, Asbury Park, 07712. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: It's no question that the summer stage should move eventually (personally I hope sooner than later) and the rebuilt Casino Arena portion would make a great Stone Pony Theatre where large Stone Pony concerts could be held. But the original building should never be considered for relocation. My concern is that the wording in the report seems to state the Stone Pony in general should be moved. On page 13 of the summary, points four and five of the Committee's reccomendation: 4. The existing requirement that The Stone Pony remain in its present location should be removed. 5. The Stone Pony building is shown as a conditional building on the Development Control Plan, maximum building heights should be established for this area. This instantly sounds (at least to me) as if the building is not significant to warrant being incorporated into future development on the site, and should be removed from the plan. I'm just saying this as an outside observer (with the highest respect for all of the work that has gone into this). If the Stone Pony building itself is important, it should specifically be designated as a seperate entity from the Summer Stage so that there is no confusion as to what can happen to it down the road. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I live at Asbury and Bond and hear nothing during the concerts. But who would not want a 1st class outdoor theater on the beachfront as part of the Casino rebuilding? Jones Beach Theatre is not too shabby. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The committee is against it. We essentially killed it when proposed by the developer. What we did at the end, just to be fair was say okay, you (Partners) pay for an independent traffic consultant to study the proposal and its effect on traffic. The developer's idea was to create this great big public plaza. We think we already have one further east. But you have to keep
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
To me the idea of an outdoor concert stage is bad for businees anyway... at least for the business of the venue itself. I've attended quite a few Stone Pony concerts at Watermark, Langosta, and the boardwalk benches. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: I live at Asbury and Bond and hear nothing during the concerts. But who would not want a 1st class outdoor theater on the beachfront as part of the Casino rebuilding? Jones Beach Theatre is not too shabby. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dave dsher4@ wrote: Rather than attack i will ask dan what the reason for the Cookman avenue closure is? at first blush i don't agree with it either but perhaps there is a logical reason. Dan can you please comment? Thank you If you were at the meeting it was explained. The
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@... wrote: Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is indoors and likely sound proofed. The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to be no future for that right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage) on Ocean Ave, how could you develop residences above these uses on the same blocks? And if you agreed then that would preclude (in my mind) residences on most, if not all of the blocks between Ocean and Kingsley. That of course was not going to be given up by the developer. And so keeping in mind that you can soundproof etc (expensive) I think we are recommending that the Pony building stay and be incorporated in developments (similar to what you suggest) but that the summer stage be moved to the demolished Casino site. What the committee is recommending is that entertainment uses become less intense along Ocean as you head north and to make the most intense uses be at Ground Zero. Reasonable I think. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Is there a reason or clarification as to why the Stone Pony was viewed as removable from the site? (pardon my ignorance if this has already been explained, but in the report I couldn't find reasoning behind this move) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote:
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Thanks Dan for your time, expertise and responses. In the meantime, I'm gonna enjoy what's here today. Hopefully I-Star creates a great combination for the future, incorporating the bits and pieces of AP past into the concept. And they have to. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: . But who would not want a 1st class outdoor theater on the beachfront as part of the Casino rebuilding? People that live in OG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
I personally feel the outdoor stage should be eliminated very soon anyway. Those shows aren't true Stone Pony shows. They're parking lot shows next to the Stone Pony. The real Stone Pony shows are the ones that use the stage and the venue itself. There are ways to soundproof the venue and build around it. You can have a wedding with a band at the Berkeley (or many other hotels around the world) and the guests staying in the rooms will not be affected by the noise. Thanks for the info on the email and postal addresses for comments, much appreciated. As well as the work you've done. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is indoors and likely sound proofed. The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to be no future for that right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Built 1914. The first zoning laws in the US were put in place in 1916 in NYC and were a direct result of the building of 120 Broadway. Dont start with stadiums. I have a lot of experience with those having been involved in killing Jets Stadium in Manhattan. LAND GRAB. Do you really believe that stadiums are compatible with residences? I can show you neighborhoods with houses and factories. You think those are compatible? That was before comprehensive zoning. And just because industrial areas get reclaimed (Billyburg) and some like the mix (usually pioneers who eventually get priced out by hipsters), doesnt mean you would actually plan a new area like that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: Ever been to Wrigleyville? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:15:37 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is indoors and likely sound proofed. The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to be no future for that right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront area under the current plan. So if we agree that the southern end and especially the end of Cookman and Asbury and Ocean is what I called ground zero, then you have to consider what's compatible and what's not. I voiced concern that if you wanted to have intense entertainment uses (like the Pony's Summer Stage)
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Are we planning a new area though? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsav...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:47:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Built 1914. The first zoning laws in the US were put in place in 1916 in NYC and were a direct result of the building of 120 Broadway. Dont start with stadiums. I have a lot of experience with those having been involved in killing Jets Stadium in Manhattan. LAND GRAB. Do you really believe that stadiums are compatible with residences? I can show you neighborhoods with houses and factories. You think those are compatible? That was before comprehensive zoning. And just because industrial areas get reclaimed (Billyburg) and some like the mix (usually pioneers who eventually get priced out by hipsters), doesnt mean you would actually plan a new area like that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: Ever been to Wrigleyville? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:15:37 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is indoors and likely sound proofed. The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to be no future for that right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas. In the original plan, the southern end of Ocean Ave is supposed to be the heart of intense entertainment uses. In reality, those uses are allowed almost anywhere in the waterfront
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
Ever been to Newark and PruCenter and PruPAC? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure?
yes since there's nothing there --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: Are we planning a new area though? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:47:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Built 1914. The first zoning laws in the US were put in place in 1916 in NYC and were a direct result of the building of 120 Broadway. Dont start with stadiums. I have a lot of experience with those having been involved in killing Jets Stadium in Manhattan. LAND GRAB. Do you really believe that stadiums are compatible with residences? I can show you neighborhoods with houses and factories. You think those are compatible? That was before comprehensive zoning. And just because industrial areas get reclaimed (Billyburg) and some like the mix (usually pioneers who eventually get priced out by hipsters), doesnt mean you would actually plan a new area like that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: Ever been to Wrigleyville? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:15:37 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Point taken. You know that the outdoor summer stage days are numbered when that can be developed with residences. That's a given no matter what the plan says short of it has to stay. You tell folks that they are moving next to an entertainment use, bar etc, and they say yeah okay and its another when they are there in their residence and start complaining about the noise. You see very few condos in the heart of times square. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@ wrote: Any concert venue at the Casino would be in a newly built arena portion, which is to look and feel like the old. That would mean the concert venue is indoors and likely sound proofed. The only venue I can think of that in the future would be an outdoor performance space would be the Arthur Pryor bandshell... and there seems to be no future for that right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: That is something I can get on board with... I personally don't feel as if moving the outdoor stage to the Casino site is going to make a difference with the sound. As this seems to be the main concern If no one believes me, grab yourself a 6pk and head to my backyard during any Summer Stage performance. I live on the corner of 5th and Comstock and hear almost every concert very clearly. Moving a stage and sound system 200 yrds to a more breeze filled area is not going to help. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:34:38 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? Well since the Pony and all that property is privately owned we (you, me, city) cant tell them what to do with it. But I think its our recommendation that the summer stage move eventually. I see no problem with interior performance spaces on Ocean with residences if you soundproof them. Personally I would not want to see the physical Pony moved. I am even ok with leaving the summer stage there but I cant see how you can build residences next to it. These are my personal opinions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: So is leaving the Pony as is, for indoor entertainment (non summer stage usage) and building a Summer stage on the casino site (strictly outdoor usage) an option being discussed? Or is the Pony not going to be used as a music venue at all, and all Pony entertainment being moved to Casino site? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:17:41 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reason for Cookman ave closure? I do not think its clear from the recommendations. And I think it was the concerns I had which is the incompatibility of intense entertainment and residential uses on the same site(s). The City learned its lesson as well on that with Cookman. That's why proper zoning specifies uses etc in certain areas.
[AsburyPark] Reflections on Parking
From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy something to fill the space. Throughout Manhattan and in parts of other boroughs, the hunt for a perfect spot, one where a driver may leave the car for days without fear of a summons, is no less an obsession than the pursuit of the white whale was for Ahab. Politicians certainly understand this. It helps explain why, over the years, they have steadily expanded the exemptions to the alternate-side parking rules, usually in the name of paying tribute to some religious or ethnic group. The Transportation Department now recognizes 32 holidays http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/scrintro.shtml#calendar2011 , with a total of 42 days, when the rules are suspended and sanitation trucks are thus unable to sweep. It is one of New York's peculiarities that the chosen method for honoring various constituencies is to leave the streets dirty. With a run of Jewish, Roman Catholic, Muslim, Hindu and legal holidays upon us, there will be a 44-day stretch, from Sept. 29 to Nov. 11, during which alternate-side parking regulations will be lifted one-third of the time. For me, the rebel's romantic concept of parking meters as an enemy no longer holds, if it ever did. An opposite thought is more dominant: Why is public space, a most precious commodity in this city, allowed to be used as a private storage area? Years ago, I asked in a column if it would be all right for a New Yorker in a crowded apartment to put a chest of drawers on wheels and leave it at curbside http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/30/nyregion/nyc-alternate-side-of-realit\ y-parking-rules.html observing all parking rules and taking a chance on theft. The very idea was, of course, absurd; you can't store personal property on the street. Why, then, is it O.K. to do that when the wheeled property is called a car? If public space is to be used for this private purpose, perhaps what the city needs to do is greatly expand the areas where people must pay for the privilege. Not that this could be done without fierce resistance from some on the City Council and in the State Legislature. Generally speaking, when it comes to the proper place of the automobile in this crowded city, what we have, as Cool Hand Luke found out in his own way, is a failure to communicate. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy something to fill the space. Throughout Manhattan and in parts of other boroughs, the hunt for a perfect spot, one where a driver may leave the car for days without fear of a summons, is no less an obsession than the pursuit of the white whale was for Ahab. Politicians certainly understand this. It helps explain why, over the years, they have steadily expanded the exemptions to the alternate-side parking rules, usually in the name of paying tribute to some religious or ethnic group. The Transportation Department now recognizes 32 holidays http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/scrintro.shtml#calendar2011 , with a total of 42 days, when the rules are suspended and sanitation trucks are thus unable to sweep. It is one of New York's peculiarities that the chosen method for honoring various constituencies is to leave the streets dirty. With a run of Jewish, Roman Catholic, Muslim, Hindu and legal holidays upon us, there will be a 44-day stretch, from Sept. 29 to Nov. 11, during which alternate-side parking regulations will be lifted one-third of the time. For me, the rebel's romantic concept of parking meters as an enemy no longer holds, if it ever did. An opposite thought is more dominant: Why is public space, a most precious commodity in this city, allowed to be used as a private storage area? Years ago, I asked in a column if it would be all right for a New Yorker in a crowded apartment to put a chest of drawers on wheels and leave it at curbside
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hing...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy something to fill the space. Throughout Manhattan and in parts of other boroughs, the hunt for a perfect spot, one where a driver may leave the car for days without fear of a summons, is no less an obsession than the pursuit of the white whale was for Ahab. Politicians certainly understand this. It helps explain why, over the years, they have steadily expanded the exemptions to the alternate-side parking rules, usually in the name of paying tribute to some religious or ethnic group. The Transportation Department now recognizes 32 holidays http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/scrintro.shtml#calendar2011 , with a total of 42 days, when the rules are suspended and sanitation trucks are thus unable to sweep. It is one of New York's peculiarities that the chosen method for honoring various constituencies is to leave the streets dirty. With a run of Jewish, Roman Catholic, Muslim, Hindu and legal holidays upon us, there will be a 44-day stretch, from Sept. 29 to Nov. 11, during which alternate-side parking regulations will be lifted one-third of the time. For me, the
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
designated area - That's been my argument all along. Thanks for reinforcing that. If I bought the $30 permit this summer, it would have been useless during Summer Stage events, or busy weekend days. All it would do would hold me hostage in a parking space on my block. My next door neighbor, who bought the permit, experienced this every weekend. He'd park out front of his home, and if he left for a few hours (like most of us) to do grocery shopping or anything else, he'd return to our block being completely filled. The permit states that it's only good for the block on which it's issued. So this leaves the permit holder to park a block or more away. Meanwhile, most of the spaces on Bergh and on the 300 block of 1st were being used by boardwalk employees. This is exactly what I predicted would happen. In my opinion, the city did little or no research into this issue. Perhaps they could've done a parking survey to see how many people actually own cars on the affected blocks. On mine, that amounts to 3 cars in the summer, 2 in the winter. All the other residents on my block live in housing that includes a parking lot. Meanwhile, they installed a parking sign post at my curb 6 months ago. It still stands there, without a sign. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@... wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy something to fill the space. Throughout Manhattan and in parts of other boroughs, the hunt for a perfect spot, one where a driver may leave the car for days without fear of a summons, is no less an obsession than the pursuit of the white whale was for Ahab. Politicians certainly understand this. It helps explain why, over the years, they have steadily expanded the exemptions to the alternate-side parking rules, usually in the name of paying tribute to some religious or ethnic group. The Transportation Department now recognizes 32 holidays http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/scrintro.shtml#calendar2011 , with a total of 42 days, when the rules are suspended and sanitation trucks are thus unable to sweep. It is one of New York's peculiarities that the chosen method for honoring various constituencies is to leave the streets dirty. With a run of Jewish, Roman Catholic, Muslim, Hindu and legal holidays upon us, there will be a 44-day stretch, from Sept. 29 to Nov.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
All the city needed to do was inquire with other cities in NJ I did some research on this when you first brought up the topic I found ONE municipality that has parking meters, AND charges their residents the way AP does. 30+ other cities/towns that have meters followed the same guidelines, which were $15-25 for year round permits and designated residential parking Its really not rocket science, but this is AP, not a great record when it comes to common sense Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hing...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:56:22 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking designated area - That's been my argument all along. Thanks for reinforcing that. If I bought the $30 permit this summer, it would have been useless during Summer Stage events, or busy weekend days. All it would do would hold me hostage in a parking space on my block. My next door neighbor, who bought the permit, experienced this every weekend. He'd park out front of his home, and if he left for a few hours (like most of us) to do grocery shopping or anything else, he'd return to our block being completely filled. The permit states that it's only good for the block on which it's issued. So this leaves the permit holder to park a block or more away. Meanwhile, most of the spaces on Bergh and on the 300 block of 1st were being used by boardwalk employees. This is exactly what I predicted would happen. In my opinion, the city did little or no research into this issue. Perhaps they could've done a parking survey to see how many people actually own cars on the affected blocks. On mine, that amounts to 3 cars in the summer, 2 in the winter. All the other residents on my block live in housing that includes a parking lot. Meanwhile, they installed a parking sign post at my curb 6 months ago. It still stands there, without a sign. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
That holds promise but I think residents should have to pay in the beachfront, cookman, etc. Parking is never free (always has a cost) even if its not charged for. Hogging spaces so customers can never park and frequent businesses. But even implementing some sort of resident parking has issues. Do you make it like Hoboken where there is a visitor parking for limited time? You have to pay someone to mark the tires and measure time? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy something to fill the space. Throughout Manhattan and in parts of other boroughs, the hunt for a perfect spot, one where a driver may leave the car for days without fear of a summons, is no less an obsession than the pursuit of the white whale was for Ahab. Politicians certainly understand this. It helps explain why, over the years, they have steadily expanded the exemptions to the alternate-side parking rules, usually in the name of paying tribute to some religious or ethnic group. The Transportation Department
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy something to fill the space. Throughout Manhattan and in parts of other boroughs, the hunt for a perfect spot, one where a driver may leave the car for days without
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
When I lived in Edgewater, a resident parking permit was $5. The signage was clear. It kept people away from my neighborhood who wanted to use the Ferry without paying, which was the only competition we residents ever had for parking. And the city collected fines for those who didn't pay attention to the signs. That's exactly the way it should work in the AP residential neighborhoods. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: That holds promise but I think residents should have to pay in the beachfront, cookman, etc. Parking is never free (always has a cost) even if its not charged for. Hogging spaces so customers can never park and frequent businesses. But even implementing some sort of resident parking has issues. Do you make it like Hoboken where there is a visitor parking for limited time? You have to pay someone to mark the tires and measure time? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Perhaps I do not understand you because unless you make Hinge's block resident only, it does not solve the problem. If its meter or permit, when there are events, Hinge cant park even though he has a permit. If you make it permit only, you lose revenue or you have that problem on another block whether you make it free or with meter and permit. Anything you do will have issues. You have a beach. You want visitors to come? You need parking. Charge for it I say whether its resident or visitor. If we want to make the town resident only, then do it. You will hear screams. Cookman is a perfect example. Cars hog the spots because there are no limits. This will always bring you back to the compatibility issue and knowing what you are getting into. If I live over a bar I will probably have some disruptions. If I live in Manhattan, or urban areas, I will probably have an issue finding a parking space. When I was a kid in Park Slope, there were not 10 cars on the block. We sat on curbs and had the whole street to play stickball. Gone. 7 years ago I had the whole of the beach almost to myself on a 98-degree day on July 4th. Gone. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: All the city needed to do was inquire with other cities in NJ I did some research on this when you first brought up the topic I found ONE municipality that has parking meters, AND charges their residents the way AP does. 30+ other cities/towns that have meters followed the same guidelines, which were $15-25 for year round permits and designated residential parking Its really not rocket science, but this is AP, not a great record when it comes to common sense Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:56:22 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking designated area - That's been my argument all along. Thanks for reinforcing that. If I bought the $30 permit this summer, it would have been useless during Summer Stage events, or busy weekend days. All it would do would hold me hostage in a parking space on my block. My next door neighbor, who bought the permit, experienced this every weekend. He'd park out front of his home, and if he left for a few hours (like most of us) to do grocery shopping or anything else, he'd return to our block being completely filled. The permit states that it's only good for the block on which it's issued. So this leaves the permit holder to park a block or more away. Meanwhile, most of the spaces on Bergh and on the 300 block of 1st were being used by boardwalk employees. This is exactly what I predicted would happen. In my opinion, the city did little or no research into this issue. Perhaps they could've done a parking survey to see how many people actually own cars on the affected blocks. On mine, that amounts to 3 cars in the summer, 2 in the winter. All the other residents on my block live in housing that includes a parking lot. Meanwhile, they installed a parking sign post at my curb 6 months ago. It still stands there, without a sign. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@... wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Visitor parking is not the issue, its residential that's the issue. Give me a bad repercussion of having resident parking only spaces Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsav...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:24:14 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking That holds promise but I think residents should have to pay in the beachfront, cookman, etc. Parking is never free (always has a cost) even if its not charged for. Hogging spaces so customers can never park and frequent businesses. But even implementing some sort of resident parking has issues. Do you make it like Hoboken where there is a visitor parking for limited time? You have to pay someone to mark the tires and measure time? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that. I haven't owned one in 33 years. Yet an available parking spot right in front of my apartment building is so alluring that it almost makes me want to rush off to buy something to fill the space. Throughout Manhattan and in parts of other boroughs, the hunt for a perfect spot, one
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
When I lived in Jersey City there was NEVER issues, its a proven method Again, inquire with other cities like have done. It works Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsav...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:33:31 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Perhaps I do not understand you because unless you make Hinge's block resident only, it does not solve the problem. If its meter or permit, when there are events, Hinge cant park even though he has a permit. If you make it permit only, you lose revenue or you have that problem on another block whether you make it free or with meter and permit. Anything you do will have issues. You have a beach. You want visitors to come? You need parking. Charge for it I say whether its resident or visitor. If we want to make the town resident only, then do it. You will hear screams. Cookman is a perfect example. Cars hog the spots because there are no limits. This will always bring you back to the compatibility issue and knowing what you are getting into. If I live over a bar I will probably have some disruptions. If I live in Manhattan, or urban areas, I will probably have an issue finding a parking space. When I was a kid in Park Slope, there were not 10 cars on the block. We sat on curbs and had the whole street to play stickball. Gone. 7 years ago I had the whole of the beach almost to myself on a 98-degree day on July 4th. Gone. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: All the city needed to do was inquire with other cities in NJ I did some research on this when you first brought up the topic I found ONE municipality that has parking meters, AND charges their residents the way AP does. 30+ other cities/towns that have meters followed the same guidelines, which were $15-25 for year round permits and designated residential parking Its really not rocket science, but this is AP, not a great record when it comes to common sense Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:56:22 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking designated area - That's been my argument all along. Thanks for reinforcing that. If I bought the $30 permit this summer, it would have been useless during Summer Stage events, or busy weekend days. All it would do would hold me hostage in a parking space on my block. My next door neighbor, who bought the permit, experienced this every weekend. He'd park out front of his home, and if he left for a few hours (like most of us) to do grocery shopping or anything else, he'd return to our block being completely filled. The permit states that it's only good for the block on which it's issued. So this leaves the permit holder to park a block or more away. Meanwhile, most of the spaces on Bergh and on the 300 block of 1st were being used by boardwalk employees. This is exactly what I predicted would happen. In my opinion, the city did little or no research into this issue. Perhaps they could've done a parking survey to see how many people actually own cars on the affected blocks. On mine, that amounts to 3 cars in the summer, 2 in the winter. All the other residents on my block live in housing that includes a parking lot. Meanwhile, they installed a parking sign post at my curb 6 months ago. It still stands there, without a sign. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
My point, reserve spaces on your block so when there is the demand present that leaves you with no spaces, those excess cars (visitors) go go to the next block perhaps. That causes residents on that block not to be able to park (the number displaced by the excess cars) and now they have the same complaints, so we do the same there, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get wore unless the whole thing fails. 1.5 cars off street parking requirement per new unit in the waterfront area. Can you imagine the implications if even 25% of it gets built? Who has 1.5 cars? No guests? You think the folks in Ocean Grove have complaints about parking in the summer? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Issue with resident only parking on public streets is some of the weekend folks. If you take a look on cookman at some of the cars parked, they have flyers on them and some of those flyers are a week old, what that means to me is weekend residents are parking in public streets for days when they're back in their monday to friday residences. That means those of us who want to go to cookman and park suffer as there's no parking and the stores suffer as we may well go elsewhere. Resident only parking would perpetuate that. If you live in a place with attractions (beach/shopping) it's price to pay. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 1:34 PM, cbrianwatk...@gmail.com wrote: Visitor parking is not the issue, its residential that's the issue. Give me a bad repercussion of having resident parking only spaces Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsav...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:24:14 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking That holds promise but I think residents should have to pay in the beachfront, cookman, etc. Parking is never free (always has a cost) even if its not charged for. Hogging spaces so customers can never park and frequent businesses. But even implementing some sort of resident parking has issues. Do you make it like Hoboken where there is a visitor parking for limited time? You have to pay someone to mark the tires and measure time? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Are you doing it citywide? Because if you are not, then we are not sharing the burden. You will simply shift those visitors to another block. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: Visitor parking is not the issue, its residential that's the issue. Give me a bad repercussion of having resident parking only spaces Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:24:14 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking That holds promise but I think residents should have to pay in the beachfront, cookman, etc. Parking is never free (always has a cost) even if its not charged for. Hogging spaces so customers can never park and frequent businesses. But even implementing some sort of resident parking has issues. Do you make it like Hoboken where there is a visitor parking for limited time? You have to pay someone to mark the tires and measure time? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of their more soulless creations. Perhaps those same people would have pumped their fists joyfully had they witnessed the uprooting of Manhattan's last single-space meter from its post on Frederick Douglass Boulevard in Harlem. Not that meters have disappeared from the city. Hardly. Tens of thousands remain in other boroughs. But they are doomed, too. In a year or so, the city's Transportation Department expects multispace Muni-Meters to be the rule everywhere. The relationship between some New Yorkers and their parking spaces can run deep, even as the city becomes ever more bicycle conscious perhaps especially as the city becomes more bike conscious. You don't have to own a car to understand that.
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Is it city-wide in residential neighborhoods like Hoboken? Then all share the burden. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: When I lived in Jersey City there was NEVER issues, its a proven method Again, inquire with other cities like have done. It works Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:33:31 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Perhaps I do not understand you because unless you make Hinge's block resident only, it does not solve the problem. If its meter or permit, when there are events, Hinge cant park even though he has a permit. If you make it permit only, you lose revenue or you have that problem on another block whether you make it free or with meter and permit. Anything you do will have issues. You have a beach. You want visitors to come? You need parking. Charge for it I say whether its resident or visitor. If we want to make the town resident only, then do it. You will hear screams. Cookman is a perfect example. Cars hog the spots because there are no limits. This will always bring you back to the compatibility issue and knowing what you are getting into. If I live over a bar I will probably have some disruptions. If I live in Manhattan, or urban areas, I will probably have an issue finding a parking space. When I was a kid in Park Slope, there were not 10 cars on the block. We sat on curbs and had the whole street to play stickball. Gone. 7 years ago I had the whole of the beach almost to myself on a 98-degree day on July 4th. Gone. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: All the city needed to do was inquire with other cities in NJ I did some research on this when you first brought up the topic I found ONE municipality that has parking meters, AND charges their residents the way AP does. 30+ other cities/towns that have meters followed the same guidelines, which were $15-25 for year round permits and designated residential parking Its really not rocket science, but this is AP, not a great record when it comes to common sense Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:56:22 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking designated area - That's been my argument all along. Thanks for reinforcing that. If I bought the $30 permit this summer, it would have been useless during Summer Stage events, or busy weekend days. All it would do would hold me hostage in a parking space on my block. My next door neighbor, who bought the permit, experienced this every weekend. He'd park out front of his home, and if he left for a few hours (like most of us) to do grocery shopping or anything else, he'd return to our block being completely filled. The permit states that it's only good for the block on which it's issued. So this leaves the permit holder to park a block or more away. Meanwhile, most of the spaces on Bergh and on the 300 block of 1st were being used by boardwalk employees. This is exactly what I predicted would happen. In my opinion, the city did little or no research into this issue. Perhaps they could've done a parking survey to see how many people actually own cars on the affected blocks. On mine, that amounts to 3 cars in the summer, 2 in the winter. All the other residents on my block live in housing that includes a parking lot. Meanwhile, they installed a parking sign post at my curb 6 months ago. It still stands there, without a sign. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand.
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
I checked, it is citywide essentially. And I see a problem. There are non-resident permits as well for $300 limited to one vehicle. A resident permit requires you to register your car in JC. I am an honest person. AP is not my permanent address for tax purposes not to run afoul of NYS. It will not be for a lot of residents. Although I pay over $10k in real estate taxes here, I don't even file my taxes here but pay the higher NY taxes. I pay higher NY insurance for cars etc. I am not alone. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: When I lived in Jersey City there was NEVER issues, its a proven method Again, inquire with other cities like have done. It works Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:33:31 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Perhaps I do not understand you because unless you make Hinge's block resident only, it does not solve the problem. If its meter or permit, when there are events, Hinge cant park even though he has a permit. If you make it permit only, you lose revenue or you have that problem on another block whether you make it free or with meter and permit. Anything you do will have issues. You have a beach. You want visitors to come? You need parking. Charge for it I say whether its resident or visitor. If we want to make the town resident only, then do it. You will hear screams. Cookman is a perfect example. Cars hog the spots because there are no limits. This will always bring you back to the compatibility issue and knowing what you are getting into. If I live over a bar I will probably have some disruptions. If I live in Manhattan, or urban areas, I will probably have an issue finding a parking space. When I was a kid in Park Slope, there were not 10 cars on the block. We sat on curbs and had the whole street to play stickball. Gone. 7 years ago I had the whole of the beach almost to myself on a 98-degree day on July 4th. Gone. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: All the city needed to do was inquire with other cities in NJ I did some research on this when you first brought up the topic I found ONE municipality that has parking meters, AND charges their residents the way AP does. 30+ other cities/towns that have meters followed the same guidelines, which were $15-25 for year round permits and designated residential parking Its really not rocket science, but this is AP, not a great record when it comes to common sense Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:56:22 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking designated area - That's been my argument all along. Thanks for reinforcing that. If I bought the $30 permit this summer, it would have been useless during Summer Stage events, or busy weekend days. All it would do would hold me hostage in a parking space on my block. My next door neighbor, who bought the permit, experienced this every weekend. He'd park out front of his home, and if he left for a few hours (like most of us) to do grocery shopping or anything else, he'd return to our block being completely filled. The permit states that it's only good for the block on which it's issued. So this leaves the permit holder to park a block or more away. Meanwhile, most of the spaces on Bergh and on the 300 block of 1st were being used by boardwalk employees. This is exactly what I predicted would happen. In my opinion, the city did little or no research into this issue. Perhaps they could've done a parking survey to see how many people actually own cars on the affected blocks. On mine, that amounts to 3 cars in the summer, 2 in the winter. All the other residents on my block live in housing that includes a parking lot. Meanwhile, they installed a parking sign post at my curb 6 months ago. It still stands there, without a sign. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Well logically speaking this should happen where there is paid parking I do not have paid parking in my neighborhood, so there is no use for residential permits Even more logical, for those speaking of Cookman, would be to build a parking deck accessible to everyone all the time (not like the current one) There are PLENTY of things that could be knocked down (since the city loves to do this) downtown, shit there are empty lots that could house a parking deck Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsav...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:41:32 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Are you doing it citywide? Because if you are not, then we are not sharing the burden. You will simply shift those visitors to another block. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: Visitor parking is not the issue, its residential that's the issue. Give me a bad repercussion of having resident parking only spaces Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dfsavgny dfsavgny@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:24:14 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking That holds promise but I think residents should have to pay in the beachfront, cookman, etc. Parking is never free (always has a cost) even if its not charged for. Hogging spaces so customers can never park and frequent businesses. But even implementing some sort of resident parking has issues. Do you make it like Hoboken where there is a visitor parking for limited time? You have to pay someone to mark the tires and measure time? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@ wrote: I do not believe in paid parking for residents unless it is a $15 year round permit just like every other city in NJ does, pay for a sticker, be able to park in a designated area Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hinge98@ Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:39:26 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang for drunkenly lopping off the heads of meters with a pipe cutter. Back in 1967, some people in the New York theater where I saw it cheered as Luke went from meter to meter, methodically decapitating each one. To them, it wasn't an act of vandalism. It was a free spirit's rebellion against those in power, by attacking one of
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
All I'd like to see is one simple thing. Suspend paid parking on the 200 blocks between Labor Day and Memorial Day. I can live with the issues during the summer. But being asked to pay to park on an empty residential block is absolutely absurd. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: My point, reserve spaces on your block so when there is the demand present that leaves you with no spaces, those excess cars (visitors) go go to the next block perhaps. That causes residents on that block not to be able to park (the number displaced by the excess cars) and now they have the same complaints, so we do the same there, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get wore unless the whole thing fails. 1.5 cars off street parking requirement per new unit in the waterfront area. Can you imagine the implications if even 25% of it gets built? Who has 1.5 cars? No guests? You think the folks in Ocean Grove have complaints about parking in the summer? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was installed, my colleague Michael M. Grynbaum alluded on Monday to the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1738E260BC4A53DFB767\ 838C679EDE . In its opening scene, the title character, played by Paul Newman, is arrested and dispatched to a prison road gang
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
But if you did that then people would just start parking there instead of the paid areas and you'd be back to the no parking scenario. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Hinge hing...@yahoo.com wrote: ** All I'd like to see is one simple thing. Suspend paid parking on the 200 blocks between Labor Day and Memorial Day. I can live with the issues during the summer. But being asked to pay to park on an empty residential block is absolutely absurd. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: My point, reserve spaces on your block so when there is the demand present that leaves you with no spaces, those excess cars (visitors) go go to the next block perhaps. That causes residents on that block not to be able to park (the number displaced by the excess cars) and now they have the same complaints, so we do the same there, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get wore unless the whole thing fails. 1.5 cars off street parking requirement per new unit in the waterfront area. Can you imagine the implications if even 25% of it gets built? Who has 1.5 cars? No guests? You think the folks in Ocean Grove have complaints about parking in the summer? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in state elections in New South Wales with a slogan that the basis of democracy is non-dictated policy. Writing about the final curtain http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p\ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/nyregion/uprooting-the-old-familiar-p arking-meter.html for the parking meter in Manhattan, 60 years to the day after the first one was
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Not sure about that, although Cookman is bustling in the Winter months, the waterfront hardly fills the spaces Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Claire Davids claire.dav...@its-ship.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:11:52 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking But if you did that then people would just start parking there instead of the paid areas and you'd be back to the no parking scenario. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Hinge hing...@yahoo.com wrote: ** All I'd like to see is one simple thing. Suspend paid parking on the 200 blocks between Labor Day and Memorial Day. I can live with the issues during the summer. But being asked to pay to park on an empty residential block is absolutely absurd. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@... wrote: My point, reserve spaces on your block so when there is the demand present that leaves you with no spaces, those excess cars (visitors) go go to the next block perhaps. That causes residents on that block not to be able to park (the number displaced by the excess cars) and now they have the same complaints, so we do the same there, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get wore unless the whole thing fails. 1.5 cars off street parking requirement per new unit in the waterfront area. Can you imagine the implications if even 25% of it gets built? Who has 1.5 cars? No guests? You think the folks in Ocean Grove have complaints about parking in the summer? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In Australia, the No Parking Meters Party http://noparkingmetersparty.org/ came into being a few years ago, running candidates in
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Than the city should just switch the designation between Labor Day and Memorial Day to Resident Parking Only for the 200 blocks. In the winter, I doubt people would want to walk an extra block or two rather than park near the venue they intend to visit. Why should the 200 block residents even have to deal with this during the winter in the first place? The demand simply is not there. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Claire Davids claire.davids@... wrote: But if you did that then people would just start parking there instead of the paid areas and you'd be back to the no parking scenario. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Hinge hinge98@... wrote: ** All I'd like to see is one simple thing. Suspend paid parking on the 200 blocks between Labor Day and Memorial Day. I can live with the issues during the summer. But being asked to pay to park on an empty residential block is absolutely absurd. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: My point, reserve spaces on your block so when there is the demand present that leaves you with no spaces, those excess cars (visitors) go go to the next block perhaps. That causes residents on that block not to be able to park (the number displaced by the excess cars) and now they have the same complaints, so we do the same there, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get wore unless the whole thing fails. 1.5 cars off street parking requirement per new unit in the waterfront area. Can you imagine the implications if even 25% of it gets built? Who has 1.5 cars? No guests? You think the folks in Ocean Grove have complaints about parking in the summer? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for some rebellious spirits. [The Day] The Day http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-day/ Clyde Haberman offers his take on the news. To them, parking meters represent an infringement of their freedom of movement. Did anyone in the Old West make a cowboy pay to tie up his horse outside the saloon? Nor is this solely an American notion. In
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here. Here's my final thought (sorry to repeat myself). On Friday night, a friend is coming over to play Scrabble. My street is nothing but potholes and empty parking spaces. She has 2 choices, pay $3 to park out front on an empty street, or park around the corner or a block away. I'd love to hear somebody in this city logically defend that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: Not sure about that, although Cookman is bustling in the Winter months, the waterfront hardly fills the spaces Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Claire Davids claire.davids@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:11:52 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking But if you did that then people would just start parking there instead of the paid areas and you'd be back to the no parking scenario. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Hinge hinge98@... wrote: ** All I'd like to see is one simple thing. Suspend paid parking on the 200 blocks between Labor Day and Memorial Day. I can live with the issues during the summer. But being asked to pay to park on an empty residential block is absolutely absurd. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: My point, reserve spaces on your block so when there is the demand present that leaves you with no spaces, those excess cars (visitors) go go to the next block perhaps. That causes residents on that block not to be able to park (the number displaced by the excess cars) and now they have the same complaints, so we do the same there, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get wore unless the whole thing fails. 1.5 cars off street parking requirement per new unit in the waterfront area. Can you imagine the implications if even 25% of it gets built? Who has 1.5 cars? No guests? You think the folks in Ocean Grove have complaints about parking in the summer? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT Reflections on a Parking Meter By CLYDE HABERMAN http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/clyde-haberman/ Not to make too much of a relatively minor event, but when Manhattan's last old-time parking meter was yanked down on Monday, it meant the end of a symbolic target for
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
There is no logical rebuttal to that Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hinge hing...@yahoo.com Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 18:23:24 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here. Here's my final thought (sorry to repeat myself). On Friday night, a friend is coming over to play Scrabble. My street is nothing but potholes and empty parking spaces. She has 2 choices, pay $3 to park out front on an empty street, or park around the corner or a block away. I'd love to hear somebody in this city logically defend that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, cbrianwatkins@... wrote: Not sure about that, although Cookman is bustling in the Winter months, the waterfront hardly fills the spaces Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Claire Davids claire.davids@... Sender: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:11:52 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking But if you did that then people would just start parking there instead of the paid areas and you'd be back to the no parking scenario. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Hinge hinge98@... wrote: ** All I'd like to see is one simple thing. Suspend paid parking on the 200 blocks between Labor Day and Memorial Day. I can live with the issues during the summer. But being asked to pay to park on an empty residential block is absolutely absurd. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: My point, reserve spaces on your block so when there is the demand present that leaves you with no spaces, those excess cars (visitors) go go to the next block perhaps. That causes residents on that block not to be able to park (the number displaced by the excess cars) and now they have the same complaints, so we do the same there, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get wore unless the whole thing fails. 1.5 cars off street parking requirement per new unit in the waterfront area. Can you imagine the implications if even 25% of it gets built? Who has 1.5 cars? No guests? You think the folks in Ocean Grove have complaints about parking in the summer? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Why not reserve spaces for residents only on my block? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Why curtail the hours when there is zero demand? I would have bought the permit if the city designated a number of spaces Resident Parking Only. Wouldn't it make sense for the city to have done a parking survey first? Find out how many residents park in the designated area, and reserve spaces for residents in those areas. On my block this summer that would have amounted to 3 spaces. I realize that varies from block to block, but as I've said, the current system is great for the city, but useless for residents such as myself. What's the value in paying to park when you can't find a space to use it? If I bought the permit should I get a refund on the perhaps 24 days when visitors took up all the spaces? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Tough one, but I am probably leaning towards relaxing in that area off season or curtailing the hours BUT if that's done and during a concert at the Pony there's no spaces on your block what will you say? This is my entire point about the compatibility/incompatibility of uses. Residences near or in the middle of uses that draw high visitor traffic have issues. You will not be able to solve them. I do not think anyone has. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Hinge hinge98@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday. Since we're talking about parking ( I know I'm annoying with this topic), what do you or does anybody else feel about keeping year round until midnight paid parking on the 200 blocks west of Kingsley? My answer is easy. Take a drive to my block, 1st Ave between Bergh and Kingsley, on any day, at any time between now and Memorial Day. You will see what looks like an abandoned street. Absolutely ZERO demand. Does this make sense to anybody? I have a friend coming to visit Friday night to play Scrabble. She has 2 choices - pay $2 or $3 to park out front, or park in the dark around the corner, or on the 300 block. Thoughts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: From NYT
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Thanks :) But I love my home. It has an amazing window seat that makes me very happy. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@... wrote: Hinge, here is my solution: Buy my house (I will give you a good deal, certainly less than I paid for it 7 years ago) and you get room for up to 3 cars off street! :-) (Offer also open to anyone else) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] The Plan...
No one really answered the question I posed first thing this morning-ish re: The Plan. When do people think the first couple of blocks will be developed as set forth in The Plan, how many years? 10 years? 20 years? Never? I have 23 years left on my mortgage, what will AP look like then I wonder? I can't help but think that all this discussion will be moot because most if The Plan will never be realized. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Reflections on Parking
Hinge, here is my solution: Buy my house (I will give you a good deal, certainly less than I paid for it 7 years ago) and you get room for up to 3 cars off street! :-) (Offer also open to anyone else) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] The Plan...
25 years.. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:28 PM, fancypaaantz fancypaaa...@yahoo.comwrote: ** No one really answered the question I posed first thing this morning-ish re: The Plan. When do people think the first couple of blocks will be developed as set forth in The Plan, how many years? 10 years? 20 years? Never? I have 23 years left on my mortgage, what will AP look like then I wonder? I can't help but think that all this discussion will be moot because most if The Plan will never be realized. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan...
I just have to look at The Esperanza to tell me that endless discussion will result in no progress in the foreseeable future. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Claire Davids claire.davids@... wrote: 25 years.. *Satisfied Customers on Receipt - Worldwide* Claire Davids Managing Partner i-Parcel LLC Tel: +12015491502 Mobile: +16464316239 www.i-parcel.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:28 PM, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@...wrote: ** No one really answered the question I posed first thing this morning-ish re: The Plan. When do people think the first couple of blocks will be developed as set forth in The Plan, how many years? 10 years? 20 years? Never? I have 23 years left on my mortgage, what will AP look like then I wonder? I can't help but think that all this discussion will be moot because most if The Plan will never be realized. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Furnished studio for sublet
Hi List. A tenant in my house is looking to sublet for the the winter (roughly Oct 1 - May 1). He is asking $800 (negotiable) for the furnished studio (pictures below). Price includes heat, hotwater, electric, gas, cable and wifi. Furnishing includes flat screen TV, couch, bed etc. Interested parties should call Greg 917-860-6599. thanks garrett wagner 604 3rd Ave Asbury Park. Begin forwarded message: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan...
I think you will see some building within the next year or so if things don't go haywire. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@... wrote: No one really answered the question I posed first thing this morning-ish re: The Plan. When do people think the first couple of blocks will be developed as set forth in The Plan, how many years? 10 years? 20 years? Never? I have 23 years left on my mortgage, what will AP look like then I wonder? I can't help but think that all this discussion will be moot because most if The Plan will never be realized. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Jones Beach v Casino
Having grown up on Long Island and been a 'rail-rat' at Central Mall of Jones Beach during my youth, I have to comment on how ridiculous it is to propose that the Stone Pony could be like the Jones Beach Theater. Jones Beach State Park is 10,000 acres of mostly wilderness with the Theater being 2.8 miles from the nearest residential development. The capacity of the Theater is 15,000. This remote location makes an open-air venue of that magnitude possible. Clearly Asbury Park and its surroundings have nothing in common with Jones Beach other than fronting on the Atlantic Ocean. I suspect the comparison was prompted by a document that the Committee reviewed proposing recommendations for the redevelopment of Asbury Park after the damage caused by the Hurricane of 1944. The connection being, that the consulting team was but together by Robert Moses, the planner of Jones Beach. However, bathing and recreation were the focus of that effort. In any case the Stone Pony is a mere 500 feet from the nearest residential property and the Casino is likewise 750 feet. In addition the Casino Arena capacity is clearly limited both in its present form as a bare concrete pad or as a rebuilt facility. By comparison, Convention Hall's capacity is 3.500 with the floor being standing room general admission. I suspect a rebuilt Casino Arena would be on par with that due to similar size, perhaps a bit less actually. The Jones Beach Theater is a very inappropriate model for Asbury Park. However we do have our own unique facilities to capitalize upon - The Stone Pony, Convention Hall, Paramount Theater, Casino Carousel House and hopefully a reconstructed Casino Arena. (I'll even throw in the Wonder Bar due to uniqueness:-) Those are the character defining features that make Asbury Park what it is and should be embraced as the core of any entertainment / heritage tourism development. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Fwd: Pay Parking Downtown
From: art629gall...@gmail.com To: patrickar...@gmail.com Sent: 9/20/2011 6:11:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: Pay Parking Downtown Friends and Colleagues, I have been approached repeatedly over the past week in respect to the metered parking signs which suddenly appeared on some of our streets downtown. I thought that it would be a good idea to forward you the new ordinance which was adopted by your mayor and council on May 19th of this year. I know that the general feeling towards the pay parking has been almost unanimously negative, but knowledge and awareness are key here if you are going to propose an intelligent argument for your opinion. I have been doing business in this town for over 25 years and I have been a resident for over 10. I have heard all many complaints over the years, but complaining doesn't solve anything, nor does it implement change. I am not proposing an opinion about the situation at hand, but merely trying to express a point about living in a democracy and the rights we have as residents and business owners. IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, YOU HAVE TO LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD, otherwise you can't complain. Below you will find a copy of ordinance #2982 which outlines the entire plan for metered parking city-wide, and what will be going into effect as early as mid-October downtown. All of your questions should be answered in that document. Regardless, I urge you to attend the parking committee meeting at City Hall on Tuesday, 9/27 at 5:30. If this date is not convenient, you also have an opportunity to speak your mind in front of the mayor and council at the council meeting tomorrow night, Wednesday, 9/21 at 7 PM. If you have any questions for me, I will gladly try my best to answer them, or get the answers for you Thank you, Peace Patrick Schiavino art629 Gallery (732) 988-5111 _http://cityofasburypark.com/pdfs/ordinance%20no.%202982.pdf_ (http://cityofasburypark.com/pdfs/ordinance%20no.%202982.pdf) Steve Herman, 1701 Ocean Ave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Pony, WB, Tillie, Istar etc
The Brands The Stone Pony. In the first Bankrutpcy filing and sale, the arguments were for the name , the annex and online use. At least I thought so. It is a brand. the original location is where it is but a look and feel could be duped. I know, it and other real clubs can't get that same feel. The sounds are in the walls. You all think the casino. You already have a almost never used venue. Convention Hall. Stone Pony Concert Series at the new year round stage for large events - CH. I'd guess that somewhere there some doodles done for a SP move to CH somehow. Wonder Bar. Great name, fun place, location. Can you build up and over it? Many of you don't recall how it sat for years boarded and locked up a big grey box. Then there's that face thing. The Tillie brand. easily duplicated to bars, shirts and toilet seats. Then don't forget the downtown. Sackman's ventures clearly have had a huge impact. As for empty condos - that is a real debatable question. Are they really empty? You can't find a one bedroom rental. Sure sales at original prices have long disappeared, but AP can support and shown support for modern rentals in a higher price range. If someone comes along and follows some current trends in multifamily rental design, you should have units from $1000 and up per month easily filled - and all in one clevery designed building or groups of buildings. You'd have to think, out of all the other developers over the years who thought about AP, I-Star may be the most financially capable... ...Our prudent approach to our business has historically produced measurable results: a strong balance sheet; a well-diversified portfolio; a low-leverage capital structure; deep in-house capabilities; a broad knowledge base; and a highly disciplined investment process Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Will it Stay or Will it Go...
I'm concerned by some misinterpretations that have cropped up in the discussion of the Stone Pony. As the Plan and Contract currently stand, the Stone Pony is flagged as a building to be retained on a Conditional basis. That being - it continues to remain open and used as an entertainment venue. As I recall (don't have the docs in front of me) the condition was also predicated on a 6 month window of disuse prior to allowing a demolition. Note that this refers only to the Stone Pony building itself not the adjacent outdoor spaces. Those were acquired by Asbury Partners and effectively integrated into the Pony operations but are not part of the parcel referred to in the current plan. The outdoor 'Stage' is and has always been zoned for Residential development so discussing that in the context of 'recommending' it be moved is meaningless. The Stone Pony Building however is another matter - the recommendation of the committee to remove its conditional status for preservation opens the door to its demolition. The value of a venue like the Pony is in its authenticity - it IS the Stone Pony in look and feel, I was the restoration consultant under Dominic Santana's ownership. (although I do not know what it looks like today). Also significant is the location at Ocean and Second - the experience of waiting in line to see a show, having the same view as prior generations, the photo opps, the traffic and street scene (having Ocean Ave one-way North would add to the experience i.e. The Circuit) The stone Pony is a significant destination and for entertainment and heritage tourism. Not expanding on that is very short sighted and is one of the intrinsic flaws of the Plan. Moving residential zoning off of that block to accommodate an expanded Stone Pony would be far more beneficial to Asbury Park. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Fwd: Pay Parking Downtown
Once upon a time on cookman ave... http://www.asburyboardwalk.com/oldnews/1900/1920/0926.htm Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Will it Stay or Will it Go...
music wise, CH should then be considered the real spot to be musuem, new SP stage etc... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Will it Stay or Will it Go...
I'm sure we can all recall what happened when it was proposed to tear down the club in 2002: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/stone-pony-faces-demolition-20020111 My concerns are the same as yours. The wording in the recommendation is an open invitation to begin the process of abandoning the building and eventually losing it. Even says to be relocated from its second avenue location. The summer stage is in no way adjacent to second avenue. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@... wrote: I'm concerned by some misinterpretations that have cropped up in the discussion of the Stone Pony. As the Plan and Contract currently stand, the Stone Pony is flagged as a building to be retained on a Conditional basis. That being - it continues to remain open and used as an entertainment venue. As I recall (don't have the docs in front of me) the condition was also predicated on a 6 month window of disuse prior to allowing a demolition. Note that this refers only to the Stone Pony building itself not the adjacent outdoor spaces. Those were acquired by Asbury Partners and effectively integrated into the Pony operations but are not part of the parcel referred to in the current plan. The outdoor 'Stage' is and has always been zoned for Residential development so discussing that in the context of 'recommending' it be moved is meaningless. The Stone Pony Building however is another matter - the recommendation of the committee to remove its conditional status for preservation opens the door to its demolition. The value of a venue like the Pony is in its authenticity - it IS the Stone Pony in look and feel, I was the restoration consultant under Dominic Santana's ownership. (although I do not know what it looks like today). Also significant is the location at Ocean and Second - the experience of waiting in line to see a show, having the same view as prior generations, the photo opps, the traffic and street scene (having Ocean Ave one-way North would add to the experience i.e. The Circuit) The stone Pony is a significant destination and for entertainment and heritage tourism. Not expanding on that is very short sighted and is one of the intrinsic flaws of the Plan. Moving residential zoning off of that block to accommodate an expanded Stone Pony would be far more beneficial to Asbury Park. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Will it Stay or Will it Go...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 acme87rangers@... wrote: I'm sure we can all recall what happened when it was proposed to tear down the club in 2002: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/stone-pony-faces-demolition-20020111 My concerns are the same as yours. The wording in the recommendation is an open invitation to begin the process of abandoning the building and eventually losing it. Even says to be relocated from its second avenue location. The summer stage is in no way adjacent to second avenue. I should clarify that in Nancy Sheild's article it says relocated from its second ave relocation, does not specifically state this in the report. Might be her misinterpritation, but still an alarming thing to read nonetheless. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Pony, WB, Tillie, Istar etc
How much of North Beach is unsold? Because I never see many lights in that place. And there are a couple of units I keep an eye on (bc they are comps of my place, sort of) and they have seriously been on/off the market for 3 years. I am considering turning my place into a rental bc I can't sell. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@... wrote: The Brands The Stone Pony. In the first Bankrutpcy filing and sale, the arguments were for the name , the annex and online use. At least I thought so. It is a brand. the original location is where it is but a look and feel could be duped. I know, it and other real clubs can't get that same feel. The sounds are in the walls. You all think the casino. You already have a almost never used venue. Convention Hall. Stone Pony Concert Series at the new year round stage for large events - CH. I'd guess that somewhere there some doodles done for a SP move to CH somehow. Wonder Bar. Great name, fun place, location. Can you build up and over it? Many of you don't recall how it sat for years boarded and locked up a big grey box. Then there's that face thing. The Tillie brand. easily duplicated to bars, shirts and toilet seats. Then don't forget the downtown. Sackman's ventures clearly have had a huge impact. As for empty condos - that is a real debatable question. Are they really empty? You can't find a one bedroom rental. Sure sales at original prices have long disappeared, but AP can support and shown support for modern rentals in a higher price range. If someone comes along and follows some current trends in multifamily rental design, you should have units from $1000 and up per month easily filled - and all in one clevery designed building or groups of buildings. You'd have to think, out of all the other developers over the years who thought about AP, I-Star may be the most financially capable... ...Our prudent approach to our business has historically produced measurable results: a strong balance sheet; a well-diversified portfolio; a low-leverage capital structure; deep in-house capabilities; a broad knowledge base; and a highly disciplined investment process Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] unsold condos...
Hadn't looked in a long time, but tax records for N Beach sow around 80 units in Paramounts name. Not sure how many of those remain unfinished, rented by them, or finished and vacant. SO more then half unsold. that does little for you. I think I saw a 2 bed there going for 309k. That unit, tax abated taxes are just $3400. Wesley grove is advertising 4 unsold. Not sure which units. At least one I recall was a real waste - at least in my view. One listing is for a unit by MM is for $339,00. With tax abatement taxes are only around $5000. Griffin - maybe 15 units up. Not sure. A $649,000 unit there, taxes are looking at $7700. While at the Blu, a $256000 blowout price, taxes are $7,000. MLS shows 91 condos for sale, which includes some listed here, but not all that are up in some conversions. And then there are those like yourself, with homes you'd like to sell, but from what you say are more or less stuck. Stuck unless you look at your numbers, life etc and do that american thing and say f-it. Hire a local attorney (there;s a few), stop paying your mortgage and the rest on a home that is underwater. Pocket the cash and save it. Why pay on a losing investment? Well, that's the real bullshit and why the system is screwed up. Sales suck unless you have cash. You need f[in perfect credit and you need your home to appraise. Good luck all the way around. I inquired the other day about refinancing from 6% on my home down to 7-7.5 on my rentals. What a joke. I currently pay, on time, a mortgage on tiny equity loan on my home, and mortgages, on time, on 3 rentals with 3 mortgages and another small equity line that is closed. Car loans, one existing - never late. Cards, paid off or on time. On own a couple houses free and clear. Like a schmuck I worked my ass off as did my wife to do it right... I had one f-up a tax lien that I paid off sooner then I had to. That;s because tenant's don't get arrested for stealing (not paying rent). They just move on to the next schmuck of a landlord. My point is, RENTALS, priced to rent, will rent. It;s one of the lastest trends in housing and that's why there's money going into it. Rental owner Developing the rental and holding it for themselves. It's where the old farts after WWII made their money and many of those families never sold these investments. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: unsold condos...
ps, if you decide to rent, a great credit screening tool for small landlords: http://rentlaw.mysmartmove.com It's a Transunion Product and I'm one of their premiere partners. Kind of had some input into the service Easy to use. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] gun shot for the record
ok... that was a gun shot 11.35pm resolve to sing daily in 2011 http://www.yogabasin.com reg...@yogabasin.com bar: 732.481.4110 mobile: 917.657.4364 im: yoginilingu...@aol.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
