Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Phill Carter]

I got burnt by Alibre some years back with their entry level version.

I would never trust them again.

Cheers, Phill.

> On 18 Sep 2020, at 2:01 pm, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> 
> I just checked, the $199 version of Alibre is almost useless.  It does not
> even have Bolian operations and no CAM.At $750 you get a 2.5 axis CAM
> system and prices go up higher for more  features
> 
> FreeCAD does as much as the $750 Alibre.
> 
> To do more it seems the best option is either $500 for Fusion360 or $60 for
> Solidworks.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 8:02 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I'm not paying $1000 year for AlibreCAM but then I don't have more than
>> the 4th axis package nor the lathe feature.
>> 
>> The basic AlibreCAD comes with a simple CAM module.I doubt the low end
>> Alibre for under $200 has CAM since that comes from MecSoft.
>> 
>> MecSoft also has CAM support for RhinoCAD and for their own Visual CAD/CAM
>> https://mecsoft.com/visualcadcam/
>> Starting price is $595.  I've used the VisualCAD.  Not a lot different
>> from the AlibreCAM since the basic engine is the same.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: September-17-20 6:56 PM
>>> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
>>> 
>>> How do you generate gcode from Alibre? I found
>>> https://www.alibre.com/ecosystem-cam/ and AlibreCAM appears to be
>> $1000/year
>>> to over $21,000. I can afford $199 one time but an annual licence costing
>>> thousands is not in my budget!
>>> 
 -Original Message-
 From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
 Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:27 PM
 To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
 
 There's always the less functional https://www.alibre.com/atom3d/
 If can export step and stl files. You pay for it and use it off line.
>>> Less than $200.
 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-17-20 5:04 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> 
> Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
> personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file
>> after
> October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.
> 
> OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.
> 
> Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and
>>> for
> building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not
>> need
>>> it
> either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the
>>> LCNC
> list want CAM.
> 
> One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for
>> about
>>> $270
> but will go back to $495/yr at some point.
> 
> What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts
>>> .STEP
> files from any CAD system.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
>>> Chris,
>>> You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too
>>> expensive.
>>> Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
>>> solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual
>> feature is
>>> extrusion screws.
>>> Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features.
>> Has
>>> a
>>> 30 day free demo.
>>> https://www.webersys.com/
>>> 
>> I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob
>> at
>> Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
>> supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
>> features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a
>>> couple
>> or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
>> product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
>> Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
>> interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since
>>> 2015.
>>> As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to
>>> learn.
>>> 
>>> YMMV
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
 No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths
>> for
 lathes that runs on Linux.
 
 The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/
>> .
>>> But
 unlike
 Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate
>> toolpaths
 unless
 you get some 3rd party add-in software.
 
 I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux
>>> based
 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software
>> d

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Chris Albertson]

As I just wrote, after looking I find the only affordable CAM systems that
can do more than 3-axis are Fusion360 at $500 (on sale now for $270) and
Solidworks which id free with EAA membership.

2.5 axis systems are easier to find and it seems FreeCAD does that.

The free version of F360 is now to crippled to consider.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:58 PM Ken Strauss  wrote:

> How do you generate gcode from Alibre? I found
> https://www.alibre.com/ecosystem-cam/ and AlibreCAM appears to be
> $1000/year
> to over $21,000. I can afford $199 one time but an annual licence costing
> thousands is not in my budget!
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:27 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> >
> > There's always the less functional https://www.alibre.com/atom3d/
> > If can export step and stl files. You pay for it and use it off line.
> Less than $200.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: September-17-20 5:04 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> > >
> > > Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
> > > personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file after
> > > October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.
> > >
> > > OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.
> > >
> > > Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and
> for
> > > building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not need
> it
> > > either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the
> LCNC
> > > list want CAM.
> > >
> > > One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for about
> $270
> > > but will go back to $495/yr at some point.
> > >
> > > What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts
> .STEP
> > > files from any CAD system.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
> > > > > Chris,
> > > > > You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too
> expensive.
> > > > > Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
> > > > > solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature
> is
> > > > > extrusion screws.
> > > > > Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has
> a
> > > > > 30 day free demo.
> > > > > https://www.webersys.com/
> > > > >
> > > > I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at
> > > > Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
> > > > supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
> > > > features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a
> couple
> > > > or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
> > > > product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
> > > > Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
> > > > interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since
> 2015.
> > > > > As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to
> learn.
> > > > >
> > > > > YMMV
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > > >> No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
> > > > >> lathes that runs on Linux.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/.
> But
> > > > >> unlike
> > > > >> Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths
> > > > >> unless
> > > > >> you get some 3rd party add-in software.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux
> based
> > > > >> 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.
> > > > >> Onshape
> > > > >> on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've
> not
> > > > >> figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done
> for
> > > > >> complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof"
> that
> > > > >> g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC,
> installing
> > > > >> Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a
> rarely
> > > > >> powerful Linux PC.
> > > > >> (At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long
> > > > >> time and
> > > > >> before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I
> wanted to
> > > > >> edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the
> only
> > > > >> game in

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Chris Albertson]

I just checked, the $199 version of Alibre is almost useless.  It does not
even have Bolian operations and no CAM.At $750 you get a 2.5 axis CAM
system and prices go up higher for more  features

FreeCAD does as much as the $750 Alibre.

To do more it seems the best option is either $500 for Fusion360 or $60 for
Solidworks.



On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 8:02 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> I'm not paying $1000 year for AlibreCAM but then I don't have more than
> the 4th axis package nor the lathe feature.
>
> The basic AlibreCAD comes with a simple CAM module.I doubt the low end
> Alibre for under $200 has CAM since that comes from MecSoft.
>
> MecSoft also has CAM support for RhinoCAD and for their own Visual CAD/CAM
> https://mecsoft.com/visualcadcam/
> Starting price is $595.  I've used the VisualCAD.  Not a lot different
> from the AlibreCAM since the basic engine is the same.
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-17-20 6:56 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> >
> > How do you generate gcode from Alibre? I found
> > https://www.alibre.com/ecosystem-cam/ and AlibreCAM appears to be
> $1000/year
> > to over $21,000. I can afford $199 one time but an annual licence costing
> > thousands is not in my budget!
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:27 PM
> > > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> > >
> > > There's always the less functional https://www.alibre.com/atom3d/
> > > If can export step and stl files. You pay for it and use it off line.
> > Less than $200.
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: September-17-20 5:04 PM
> > > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> > > >
> > > > Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
> > > > personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file
> after
> > > > October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.
> > > >
> > > > OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.
> > > >
> > > > Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and
> > for
> > > > building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not
> need
> > it
> > > > either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the
> > LCNC
> > > > list want CAM.
> > > >
> > > > One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for
> about
> > $270
> > > > but will go back to $495/yr at some point.
> > > >
> > > > What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts
> > .STEP
> > > > files from any CAD system.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
> > > > > > Chris,
> > > > > > You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too
> > expensive.
> > > > > > Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
> > > > > > solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual
> feature is
> > > > > > extrusion screws.
> > > > > > Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features.
> Has
> > a
> > > > > > 30 day free demo.
> > > > > > https://www.webersys.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob
> at
> > > > > Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
> > > > > supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
> > > > > features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a
> > couple
> > > > > or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
> > > > > product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
> > > > > Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
> > > > > interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since
> > 2015.
> > > > > > As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to
> > learn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YMMV
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > > > >> No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths
> for
> > > > > >> lathes that runs on Linux.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/
> .
> > But
> > > > > >> unlike
> > > > > >> Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate
> toolpaths
> > > > > >> unless
> > > > > >> you get some 3rd party add-in software.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux
> > based
> > > > > >> 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software
> development.
> > > > > >> Onshape
> > > > > >> on the Xe

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[John Dammeyer]

I'm not paying $1000 year for AlibreCAM but then I don't have more than the 4th 
axis package nor the lathe feature.

The basic AlibreCAD comes with a simple CAM module.I doubt the low end 
Alibre for under $200 has CAM since that comes from MecSoft.

MecSoft also has CAM support for RhinoCAD and for their own Visual CAD/CAM
https://mecsoft.com/visualcadcam/
Starting price is $595.  I've used the VisualCAD.  Not a lot different from the 
AlibreCAM since the basic engine is the same.



> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-17-20 6:56 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> 
> How do you generate gcode from Alibre? I found
> https://www.alibre.com/ecosystem-cam/ and AlibreCAM appears to be $1000/year
> to over $21,000. I can afford $199 one time but an annual licence costing
> thousands is not in my budget!
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:27 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> >
> > There's always the less functional https://www.alibre.com/atom3d/
> > If can export step and stl files. You pay for it and use it off line.
> Less than $200.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: September-17-20 5:04 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> > >
> > > Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
> > > personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file after
> > > October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.
> > >
> > > OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.
> > >
> > > Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and
> for
> > > building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not need
> it
> > > either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the
> LCNC
> > > list want CAM.
> > >
> > > One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for about
> $270
> > > but will go back to $495/yr at some point.
> > >
> > > What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts
> .STEP
> > > files from any CAD system.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
> > > > > Chris,
> > > > > You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too
> expensive.
> > > > > Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
> > > > > solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is
> > > > > extrusion screws.
> > > > > Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has
> a
> > > > > 30 day free demo.
> > > > > https://www.webersys.com/
> > > > >
> > > > I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at
> > > > Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
> > > > supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
> > > > features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a
> couple
> > > > or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
> > > > product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
> > > > Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
> > > > interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since
> 2015.
> > > > > As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to
> learn.
> > > > >
> > > > > YMMV
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > > >> No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
> > > > >> lathes that runs on Linux.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/.
> But
> > > > >> unlike
> > > > >> Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths
> > > > >> unless
> > > > >> you get some 3rd party add-in software.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux
> based
> > > > >> 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.
> > > > >> Onshape
> > > > >> on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've
> not
> > > > >> figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done
> for
> > > > >> complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof"
> that
> > > > >> g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC,
> installing
> > > > >> Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a
> rarely
> > > > >> powerful Linux PC.
> > > > >> (At least as a mi

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Chris Albertson]

In your case, you might want DS Solidworks.  I've been reading CAD system
specs and web sites for hours now and the ones that do have CAM are
limited.  Except for Solidworks.  They use SW to make things like rocket
engines for SpaceX boosters and car plants at GM.

SW can drive a 5-axis mill but I don't know what limits are.  I know it can
do 3+2 milling

FreeCAD is limited to 2.5 axis and some limited 3 axis milling.

OnShape requires 3rd party CAM solutions.

It might be worth buying an EAA membership then enrolling in the
"Solidworks University" program.  But it would take months to work through
all their training materials.



On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:08 PM Frank Tkalcevic 
wrote:

> > The feature they are taking away is the ability to save your files to an
> > industry-standard STEP file.  Unless you pay for a license.
>
> That's one that's going to hit me.  I always expected the free version to
> disappear, so I never invested much time in the CAD.  I've been using F360
> to import STL files and export them as STEP/IGES.  I'm not sure how I'm
> going to do this now.
>
> The other killer is 4th and 5th axis CAM.  I can still import STEP and
> output 3D gcode (and turn), but I just started collecting parts for a 5th
> axis trunnion for my hobby CNC router.  :(
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Ken Strauss]

How do you generate gcode from Alibre? I found
https://www.alibre.com/ecosystem-cam/ and AlibreCAM appears to be $1000/year
to over $21,000. I can afford $199 one time but an annual licence costing
thousands is not in my budget!

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:27 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
>
> There's always the less functional https://www.alibre.com/atom3d/
> If can export step and stl files. You pay for it and use it off line.
Less than $200.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-17-20 5:04 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> >
> > Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
> > personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file after
> > October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.
> >
> > OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.
> >
> > Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and
for
> > building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not need
it
> > either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the
LCNC
> > list want CAM.
> >
> > One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for about
$270
> > but will go back to $495/yr at some point.
> >
> > What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts
.STEP
> > files from any CAD system.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
> > > > Chris,
> > > > You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too
expensive.
> > > > Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
> > > > solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is
> > > > extrusion screws.
> > > > Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has
a
> > > > 30 day free demo.
> > > > https://www.webersys.com/
> > > >
> > > I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at
> > > Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
> > > supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
> > > features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a
couple
> > > or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
> > > product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
> > > Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
> > > interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since
2015.
> > > > As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to
learn.
> > > >
> > > > YMMV
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > >> No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
> > > >> lathes that runs on Linux.
> > > >>
> > > >> The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/.
But
> > > >> unlike
> > > >> Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths
> > > >> unless
> > > >> you get some 3rd party add-in software.
> > > >>
> > > >> I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux
based
> > > >> 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.
> > > >> Onshape
> > > >> on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've
not
> > > >> figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.
> > > >>
> > > >> Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done
for
> > > >> complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof"
that
> > > >> g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.
> > > >>
> > > >> One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC,
installing
> > > >> Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a
rarely
> > > >> powerful Linux PC.
> > > >> (At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)
> > > >>
> > > >> I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long
> > > >> time and
> > > >> before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I
wanted to
> > > >> edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the only
> > > >> game in
> > > >> town for professional-level media editing unless you consider
Apple's
> > > >> Final
> > > >> Cut Pro X.None of this runs on Linux.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:38 PM R C  wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 9/16/20 12:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > >  Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free
> > >  even for
> > >  commercial use until you make $50K using it.
> > > 
> > >  Fusion is a little bit like Freecad but is more complete and
better
> > >  supported as you would expect of a product from Autodesk.
> > > 
> > > >>

[Emc-users] Good news, Gene vs Freecad I might have made progress

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

CAD isn't my strong suite as you all know.

However, poking the beast with a stick just for S&G tonight, I may have 
modified the stl for the flexgear to give it thicker walls. So I 
exported just that piece as an .stl, and ran it thru cura, so yet 
another copy is building, with an expected finish time abut 10 am 
tomorrow.  If cura doesn't screw it up, it will have sidewalls around 2x 
thicker and might make them stiff enough to handle the torque.

cura did give me a thicker wall, but that extra thickness was loose and 
just flapping around on the inside of the top 10mm of splines.  So I'll 
say that cura, in dealing with an idiot like me, is not ready for prime 
time yet.

I hadn't run freecad, the appimage in a couple weeks, and first thing it 
did was update 857 hunks of it.  I am impressed.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Frank Tkalcevic]

> The feature they are taking away is the ability to save your files to an
> industry-standard STEP file.  Unless you pay for a license.

That's one that's going to hit me.  I always expected the free version to 
disappear, so I never invested much time in the CAD.  I've been using F360 to 
import STL files and export them as STEP/IGES.  I'm not sure how I'm going to 
do this now.

The other killer is 4th and 5th axis CAM.  I can still import STEP and output 
3D gcode (and turn), but I just started collecting parts for a 5th axis 
trunnion for my hobby CNC router.  :(

Frank



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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40. Now way offtopic.

[Chris Albertson]

Gene,

First, let me retract what I said about Fusion360.  We have until Oct 1,
2020, to save files to .STEP and move on.

If you want to meet other guys who also know about old radio transmit tubes
joint the "funwithtubes" email list.  It is a mix,  some 80-year-old ex
station engineers and some young guitar amplifier builders.
www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 5:05 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 17 September 2020 17:10:08 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > > Your designs are yours according to copyright law. Any EULA that
> > > says otherwise or holds that data for ransom should not be signed,
> > > to me its a full stop, back away.  If you can't save your work, in a
> > > standard format understood by other similar SW, on your own storage
> > > media, full stop, you are dealing with rectums.
> >
> > You are right but EVERY CAD system allows you to save work locally in
> > a usable format.But many times machinists are anything
> > but sophisticated computer users and they don't understand about
> > backup and file formats and they allow themselves to be painted into a
> > corner.  Don't blame the paintbrush of lack of planning.  But on the
> > other hand without experience, you don't know that planning is needed.
> >
> > Every business needs contingency plans.  What if you are force to
> > switch CAD systems.  What if a motor fails on a machine or there is a
> > building fire?Even hobby users need to think a little about this.
>
> Absolutely Chris. One of the things I've learned in my lengthy wanderings
> about the electronics landscape, from '47 to '20 now.  Yup, I'm an old
> old hand with vacuum tubes, even some bigger, very expensive ones, like
> 4km100la klystrons.  Only $125,000 new 50 years ago. Technologically
> superceded in the '80's, I might be the only one left alive who could
> lift one out of its shipping casket, dress it up with all the rf
> cavities and cooling plumbing, lower it into its 2200 lb magnet dolly,
> adjust it and put it on the air. All the rest of the old hands who knew
> all that have fell over in the passing of time. Ticklish to do, 10
> seconds with a missadjusted magnet coil and you just made junk from
> $125,000.
>
> Less than that if the 15 hp cooling pump got single-phased, about a
> second from recognizing the loud hum telling me the pump had lost a
> phase and had stalled until the buildings 1200 amp entrance breaker went
> down like a 10 gauge shotgun. The electron beam had blown a hole in the
> copper funnel that had 70+ gallons of water a minute flowing around it
> one second before. Filled the tube full of water, shorting out the 20kv
> beam supply.  Standing at the monitor/control panel, my arm was on its
> way to hit the off button but wasn't fast enough.
>
> Not in the years budget, the Nebraska gov had to call 2 quorum sessions
> of the legislature to pass the authority to put it out for bid, and
> again to write the check before Varian would ship after they had built a
> new one for us.
>
> Needless to say, as it was being installed, so was a couple 50kv, 50 amp
> Jennings vacuum relays to shut down the 20kv beam supply in 50
> milliseconds the next time that $100 pump breaker that started all the
> excitement failed.
>
> That was an expensive lesson in "insurance" engineering.
>
> And thats just one of the war stories I can relate.  This last 70 some
> years has been an interesting ride.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[John Dammeyer]

There's always the less functional https://www.alibre.com/atom3d/ 
If can export step and stl files. You pay for it and use it off line.  Less 
than $200.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-17-20 5:04 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> 
> Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
> personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file after
> October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.
> 
> OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.
> 
> Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and for
> building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not need it
> either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the LCNC
> list want CAM.
> 
> One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for about $270
> but will go back to $495/yr at some point.
> 
> What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts .STEP
> files from any CAD system.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
> > > Chris,
> > > You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too expensive.
> > > Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
> > > solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is
> > > extrusion screws.
> > > Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has a
> > > 30 day free demo.
> > > https://www.webersys.com/
> > >
> > I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at
> > Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
> > supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
> > features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a couple
> > or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
> > product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
> > Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
> > interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since 2015.
> > > As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to learn.
> > >
> > > YMMV
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > >> No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
> > >> lathes that runs on Linux.
> > >>
> > >> The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/. But
> > >> unlike
> > >> Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths
> > >> unless
> > >> you get some 3rd party add-in software.
> > >>
> > >> I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux based
> > >> 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.
> > >> Onshape
> > >> on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've not
> > >> figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.
> > >>
> > >> Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done for
> > >> complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof" that
> > >> g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.
> > >>
> > >> One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC, installing
> > >> Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a rarely
> > >> powerful Linux PC.
> > >> (At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)
> > >>
> > >> I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long
> > >> time and
> > >> before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I wanted to
> > >> edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the only
> > >> game in
> > >> town for professional-level media editing unless you consider Apple's
> > >> Final
> > >> Cut Pro X.None of this runs on Linux.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:38 PM R C  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 9/16/20 12:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >  Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free
> >  even for
> >  commercial use until you make $50K using it.
> > 
> >  Fusion is a little bit like Freecad but is more complete and better
> >  supported as you would expect of a product from Autodesk.
> > 
> > >>> I have heard about that one.   does it run on Linux too?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > 
> >  On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:39 PM R C  wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > >
> > > I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling
> > > them on
> > > a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard,
> > > that
> > > you can't really  make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.
> > >
> > >
> > > What wold be a good choice for designing, simple, parts for a lathe,
> > > that will create 

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Chris Albertson]

Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file after
October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.

OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.

Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and for
building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not need it
either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the LCNC
list want CAM.

One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for about $270
but will go back to $495/yr at some point.

What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts .STEP
files from any CAD system.



On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:

>
> On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
> > Chris,
> > You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too expensive.
> > Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
> > solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is
> > extrusion screws.
> > Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has a
> > 30 day free demo.
> > https://www.webersys.com/
> >
> I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at
> Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
> supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
> features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a couple
> or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
> product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
> Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
> interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since 2015.
> > As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to learn.
> >
> > YMMV
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >> No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
> >> lathes that runs on Linux.
> >>
> >> The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/. But
> >> unlike
> >> Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths
> >> unless
> >> you get some 3rd party add-in software.
> >>
> >> I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux based
> >> 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.
> >> Onshape
> >> on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've not
> >> figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.
> >>
> >> Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done for
> >> complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof" that
> >> g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.
> >>
> >> One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC, installing
> >> Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a rarely
> >> powerful Linux PC.
> >> (At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)
> >>
> >> I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long
> >> time and
> >> before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I wanted to
> >> edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the only
> >> game in
> >> town for professional-level media editing unless you consider Apple's
> >> Final
> >> Cut Pro X.None of this runs on Linux.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:38 PM R C  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 9/16/20 12:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>  Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free
>  even for
>  commercial use until you make $50K using it.
> 
>  Fusion is a little bit like Freecad but is more complete and better
>  supported as you would expect of a product from Autodesk.
> 
> >>> I have heard about that one.   does it run on Linux too?
> >>>
> >>>
> 
>  On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:39 PM R C  wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling
> > them on
> > a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.
> >
> >
> > I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard,
> > that
> > you can't really  make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.
> >
> >
> > What wold be a good choice for designing, simple, parts for a lathe,
> > that will create g-code for it?
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@li

Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40. Now way offtopic.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 17 September 2020 17:10:08 Chris Albertson wrote:

> > Your designs are yours according to copyright law. Any EULA that
> > says otherwise or holds that data for ransom should not be signed,
> > to me its a full stop, back away.  If you can't save your work, in a
> > standard format understood by other similar SW, on your own storage
> > media, full stop, you are dealing with rectums.
>
> You are right but EVERY CAD system allows you to save work locally in
> a usable format.But many times machinists are anything
> but sophisticated computer users and they don't understand about
> backup and file formats and they allow themselves to be painted into a
> corner.  Don't blame the paintbrush of lack of planning.  But on the
> other hand without experience, you don't know that planning is needed.
>
> Every business needs contingency plans.  What if you are force to
> switch CAD systems.  What if a motor fails on a machine or there is a
> building fire?Even hobby users need to think a little about this.

Absolutely Chris. One of the things I've learned in my lengthy wanderings 
about the electronics landscape, from '47 to '20 now.  Yup, I'm an old 
old hand with vacuum tubes, even some bigger, very expensive ones, like 
4km100la klystrons.  Only $125,000 new 50 years ago. Technologically 
superceded in the '80's, I might be the only one left alive who could 
lift one out of its shipping casket, dress it up with all the rf 
cavities and cooling plumbing, lower it into its 2200 lb magnet dolly, 
adjust it and put it on the air. All the rest of the old hands who knew 
all that have fell over in the passing of time. Ticklish to do, 10 
seconds with a missadjusted magnet coil and you just made junk from 
$125,000.

Less than that if the 15 hp cooling pump got single-phased, about a 
second from recognizing the loud hum telling me the pump had lost a 
phase and had stalled until the buildings 1200 amp entrance breaker went 
down like a 10 gauge shotgun. The electron beam had blown a hole in the 
copper funnel that had 70+ gallons of water a minute flowing around it 
one second before. Filled the tube full of water, shorting out the 20kv 
beam supply.  Standing at the monitor/control panel, my arm was on its 
way to hit the off button but wasn't fast enough.

Not in the years budget, the Nebraska gov had to call 2 quorum sessions 
of the legislature to pass the authority to put it out for bid, and 
again to write the check before Varian would ship after they had built a 
new one for us.

Needless to say, as it was being installed, so was a couple 50kv, 50 amp 
Jennings vacuum relays to shut down the 20kv beam supply in 50 
milliseconds the next time that $100 pump breaker that started all the 
excitement failed.

That was an expensive lesson in "insurance" engineering.

And thats just one of the war stories I can relate.  This last 70 some 
years has been an interesting ride.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[hubert]

On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:

Chris,
You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too expensive. 
Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe, 
solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is 
extrusion screws.
Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has a 
30 day free demo.

https://www.webersys.com/

I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at 
Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still 
supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other 
features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a couple 
or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX 
product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under 
Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be 
interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since 2015.

As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to learn.

YMMV

Dave

On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
lathes that runs on Linux.

The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/. But 
unlike
Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths 
unless

you get some 3rd party add-in software.

I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux based
16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.  
Onshape

on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've not
figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.

Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done for
complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof" that
g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.

One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC, installing
Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a rarely
powerful Linux PC.
(At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)

I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long 
time and

before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I wanted to
edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the only 
game in
town for professional-level media editing unless you consider Apple's 
Final

Cut Pro X.    None of this runs on Linux.


On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:38 PM R C  wrote:


On 9/16/20 12:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free 
even for

commercial use until you make $50K using it.

Fusion is a little bit like Freecad but is more complete and better
supported as you would expect of a product from Autodesk.


I have heard about that one.   does it run on Linux too?




On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:39 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling 
them on

a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.


I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard, 
that

you can't really  make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.


What wold be a good choice for designing, simple, parts for a lathe,
that will create g-code for it?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Chris Albertson]

The feature they are taking away is the ability to save your files to an
industry-standard STEP file.  Unless you pay for a license.

You have until Oct 1 to download your files.

I read that the EAA server crashed recently.   Apparently many Fusion users
are moving there.



On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 2:02 PM Greg Bernard  wrote:

> I ran Fusion for over a year on the free "startup" license until it
> expired. I had downloaded my files to local storage so I had them to use in
> the future. I later returned to Fusion on a monthly basis to continue some
> work and found all my files were still intact when I reactivated my
> account. Since I only need Fusion periodically I'll continue using it on an
> "as needed" basis, always backing my files locally, of course.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 11:05 AM Jon Elson  wrote:
>
> > On 09/17/2020 03:37 AM, peterjohnhodg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I used to use Fusion 360 but they stopped my free licence
> > > when they looked at my website and found I did some ‘job
> > > shopping’ _regardless of turn over_. I wasn’t prepared to
> > > pay the $50 per month so I lost all my Fusion drawings. Be
> > > careful!!!
> > >
> > *** THIS *** is the kicker!  Not that you someday might not
> > be able to use the package anymore, but that ALL THE WORK
> > you did with it may become unavailable.  That's a REAL
> > downside to "free".
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
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>
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-- 

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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Chris Albertson]

>
>
> Your designs are yours according to copyright law. Any EULA that says
> otherwise or holds that data for ransom should not be signed, to me its
> a full stop, back away.  If you can't save your work, in a standard
> format understood by other similar SW, on your own storage media, full
> stop, you are dealing with rectums.


You are right but EVERY CAD system allows you to save work locally in a
usable format.But many times machinists are anything
but sophisticated computer users and they don't understand about backup and
file formats and they allow themselves to be painted into a corner.  Don't
blame the paintbrush of lack of planning.  But on the other hand without
experience, you don't know that planning is needed.

Every business needs contingency plans.  What if you are force to switch
CAD systems.  What if a motor fails on a machine or there is a building
fire?Even hobby users need to think a little about this.


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Greg Bernard]

I ran Fusion for over a year on the free "startup" license until it
expired. I had downloaded my files to local storage so I had them to use in
the future. I later returned to Fusion on a monthly basis to continue some
work and found all my files were still intact when I reactivated my
account. Since I only need Fusion periodically I'll continue using it on an
"as needed" basis, always backing my files locally, of course.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 11:05 AM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 09/17/2020 03:37 AM, peterjohnhodg...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > I used to use Fusion 360 but they stopped my free licence
> > when they looked at my website and found I did some ‘job
> > shopping’ _regardless of turn over_. I wasn’t prepared to
> > pay the $50 per month so I lost all my Fusion drawings. Be
> > careful!!!
> >
> *** THIS *** is the kicker!  Not that you someday might not
> be able to use the package anymore, but that ALL THE WORK
> you did with it may become unavailable.  That's a REAL
> downside to "free".
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] can't unhome on external error

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 17 September 2020 10:11:31 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 17 September 2020 08:28:00 andy pugh wrote:
> > Consider using VOLATILE_HOME
> >
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-config.html#_joint__lt_
> >nu m_gt_section
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> But then I'll need to "net" into this somehow, in order to stop the
> whole maryann, which is also all machine power, vfd included:
>
> net user-enable   <= iocontrol.0.user-request-enable =>
> estop-latch.0.reset net enable-latch <= estop-latch.0.ok-out =>
> iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
>
> If I'm reading the halmeter menu right, thats halui.estop.activate
> But thats yet another or2 to combine them since it won't let me hit it
> twice, once for each error. I think thats done, I'll test after
> breakfast.
>
> Thanks Andy
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I had to add an and2 and a not, Just Works.  Thank you Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 17 September 2020 15:23:00 Glenn Edwards wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> Yes and No.  ASME, like EAA, would act as a distributor or reseller. 
> ASME has a membership problem, declining badly over the years, and
> needs a way of attracting new blood especially the recent grads and
> independent consultants: many of whom are underemployed at this time. 
> And SW pricing is aimed at the corporate world.  The two- ASME and SW-
> can meet in the middle and both benefit..
>
> Glenn
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:57 AM Bruce Layne
> 
>
> wrote:
> > On 9/17/20 2:33 PM, Glenn Edwards wrote:
> > > I am a member of ASME and they should be doing something like
> > > this- I will contact my local chapter.
> >
> > You're looking at this from the end user perspective.  Yes, it would
> > be very appreciated if the ASME included a $4000 software license as
> > a benefit of membership.  I think the correct perspective for
> > analyzing this is the vendor's perspective as they decide who pays
> > what for their software.  The incremental price of software is
> > nearly zero, so the price of software in the marketing world is
> > whatever the customer will pay.  Experimental Aircraft Association
> > members aren't going to pay for Solidworks, so they can have it as a
> > benefit of EAA membership.  ASME members are the targeted market for
> > Solidworks, so they're expected to pay the $4,000 or $8,000 up front
> > and $1300 per year thereafter.
> >
> > I'm a very happy FreeCAD user.  It's not as polished nor as feature
> > rich as Solidworks, Fusion360, etc., but it does more than I need
> > and I'm not worried about exporting all of my designs to
> > non-proprietary file formats because I live in constant fear that my
> > CAD vendor is going to unilaterally change the rules and the designs
> > that I created will be held hostage and exorbitant sums will be
> > extorted from me to continue using the tools I know to access the
> > designs I created.

Your designs are yours according to copyright law. Any EULA that says 
otherwise or holds that data for ransom should not be signed, to me its 
a full stop, back away.  If you can't save your work, in a standard 
format understood by other similar SW, on your own storage media, full 
stop, you are dealing with rectums.

> > Remember Darth Vader in Lando's cloud city?
> >
> > CAD User:  We had an agreement!
> >
> > CAD Vendor:  I'm altering our agreement.  Pray I don't alter it
> > further.

I would be very reticent to deal with solidworks again. I made the 
mistake of downloading their 30 day free trial, something like a decade 
and change back, It refused to run on BDI, and on hardy I think it was, 
so I never got a chance to even look at its opening screen.

I sent several requests for help, all ignored.  But you can bet the farm 
they didn't miss sending me an email bill for the whole thing about 2x a 
week for at least a year. I fed them all to sa-learn spam. And they 
stopped eventually. I updated the machines and wiped it out long before 
they quit billing me.

So am not about to deal with them again.  Be wary of solidworks, very 
wary.  Zip support, even its it to promote the sale.

I think its time to put our combined money where it will do US some good, 
supporting Freecad's continued development seems like a hell of a good 
idea to me. V19's appimage stability is great.

But I've not a clue if those guys are setup to accept donations to fund 
feature requests.  Remember, there is one PRIME LAW in this universe, 
TANSTAAFL.  In the long view you can't violate it even if you tried.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[N]

> You're looking at this from the end user perspective.  Yes, it would be
> very appreciated if the ASME included a $4000 software license as a
> benefit of membership.  I think the correct perspective for analyzing
> this is the vendor's perspective as they decide who pays what for their
> software.  The incremental price of software is nearly zero, so the
> price of software in the marketing world is whatever the customer will
> pay.  Experimental Aircraft Association members aren't going to pay for
> Solidworks, so they can have it as a benefit of EAA membership.  ASME
> members are the targeted market for Solidworks, so they're expected to
> pay the $4,000 or $8,000 up front and $1300 per year thereafter.

Payed around $2,000 for a CNC machine so Software for $4,000 is relatively 
expensive.

> I'm a very happy FreeCAD user.  It's not as polished nor as feature rich
> as Solidworks, Fusion360, etc., ...

Same as I concluded, as is now it's not worth spending $4,000 but for others it 
might be.

> ...
> Remember Darth Vader in Lando's cloud city?
> 
> CAD User:  We had an agreement!
> 
> CAD Vendor:  I'm altering our agreement.  Pray I don't alter it further.


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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Glenn Edwards]

Bruce,

Yes and No.  ASME, like EAA, would act as a distributor or reseller.  ASME
has a membership problem, declining badly over the years, and needs a way
of attracting new blood especially the recent grads and independent
consultants: many of whom are underemployed at this time.  And SW pricing
is aimed at the corporate world.  The two- ASME and SW- can meet in the
middle and both benefit..

Glenn


On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:57 AM Bruce Layne 
wrote:

>
>
> On 9/17/20 2:33 PM, Glenn Edwards wrote:
> > I am a member of ASME and they should be doing something like
> > this- I will contact my local chapter.
>
> You're looking at this from the end user perspective.  Yes, it would be
> very appreciated if the ASME included a $4000 software license as a
> benefit of membership.  I think the correct perspective for analyzing
> this is the vendor's perspective as they decide who pays what for their
> software.  The incremental price of software is nearly zero, so the
> price of software in the marketing world is whatever the customer will
> pay.  Experimental Aircraft Association members aren't going to pay for
> Solidworks, so they can have it as a benefit of EAA membership.  ASME
> members are the targeted market for Solidworks, so they're expected to
> pay the $4,000 or $8,000 up front and $1300 per year thereafter.
>
> I'm a very happy FreeCAD user.  It's not as polished nor as feature rich
> as Solidworks, Fusion360, etc., but it does more than I need and I'm not
> worried about exporting all of my designs to non-proprietary file
> formats because I live in constant fear that my CAD vendor is going to
> unilaterally change the rules and the designs that I created will be
> held hostage and exorbitant sums will be extorted from me to continue
> using the tools I know to access the designs I created.
>
> Remember Darth Vader in Lando's cloud city?
>
> CAD User:  We had an agreement!
>
> CAD Vendor:  I'm altering our agreement.  Pray I don't alter it further.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Bruce Layne]

On 9/17/20 2:33 PM, Glenn Edwards wrote:
> I am a member of ASME and they should be doing something like
> this- I will contact my local chapter.

You're looking at this from the end user perspective.  Yes, it would be
very appreciated if the ASME included a $4000 software license as a
benefit of membership.  I think the correct perspective for analyzing
this is the vendor's perspective as they decide who pays what for their
software.  The incremental price of software is nearly zero, so the
price of software in the marketing world is whatever the customer will
pay.  Experimental Aircraft Association members aren't going to pay for
Solidworks, so they can have it as a benefit of EAA membership.  ASME
members are the targeted market for Solidworks, so they're expected to
pay the $4,000 or $8,000 up front and $1300 per year thereafter.

I'm a very happy FreeCAD user.  It's not as polished nor as feature rich
as Solidworks, Fusion360, etc., but it does more than I need and I'm not
worried about exporting all of my designs to non-proprietary file
formats because I live in constant fear that my CAD vendor is going to
unilaterally change the rules and the designs that I created will be
held hostage and exorbitant sums will be extorted from me to continue
using the tools I know to access the designs I created.

Remember Darth Vader in Lando's cloud city?

CAD User:  We had an agreement!

CAD Vendor:  I'm altering our agreement.  Pray I don't alter it further.




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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Mark Johnsen]

SW's compatibility is listed here:
https://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/SystemRequirements.html

SWs 2015 was the first version to have Win10 support, so you should be able
to port your copy.

Mark

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:24 AM Glenn Edwards 
wrote:

> Listening in on this email trail it's pretty clear the subscription model
> the vendors are moving toward have gotchas for the users.  Before you
> decide to quit you had better back everything up to a neutral format: STEP
> for solids and PDF or DXF for the drawings.  I 'own' SolidWorks2015 but it
> is running on Win7 and pretty soon the computer will die and I am not
> confident SW2015 will run properly on Win10.  So, I had better begin the
> backup process
>
> Glenn
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:53 AM Ron Buck  wrote:
>
> > I have a F360 license - single seat locked in at $350 per year. List
> price
> > is $495. AD seems to run promotions once or twice a year. Right now you
> can
> > get it for ~$300. Less I think if you buy 3 years upfront. What I
> remember
> > from the ads I’m getting.
> >
> > Remember F360 (and I’m pretty sure the SW deal) are subscriptions; they
> > can (and do) change the rules from time to time. I certainly have my
> issues
> > AD, but I’m a reasonably happy user. I bought the single seat a year or 2
> > ago even though I’m a home user, because you had to know they were going
> to
> > keep adding further restrictions to the free license.
> >
> > For some, that won’t buy a single good bottle of Whiskey, but for me at
> > the moment its about 3. Remember: there are no bad whiskey’s, just
> > different ones :)
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > > On Sep 17, 2020, at 10:36 AM, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> From: Eric Keller [mailto:keller...@gmail.com]
> > >> Sent: September-17-20 10:16 AM
> > >> Last time I checked, many years ago now, solidworks without
> simulations
> > was
> > >> $4k.  They have sometimes not offered that split and it was $8k with
> the
> > >> simulations.  I feel like it hasn't gotten cheaper. Anyone have a
> recent
> > >> price?
> > >> Eric Keller
> > >> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 1:13 PM John Dammeyer  >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> >  From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> >  Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe
> > they
> > >>> come and want the full fee.
> > >>>
> > >>> What's the fee for small usage?  The key change they've made is the
> > >>> inability to export step or iges files to other CAD systems.  You
> have
> > >>> until January to save all your drawings in that format.
> > >>>
> > >>> But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a
> > much
> > >>> more eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have
> to
> > give
> > >>> up per year for it?
> > >>>
> > >>> John Dammeyer
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually I was wondering more about Fusion360 per year.  If it's
> > $50/month then that's $600 per year and that's still less than I'm paying
> > for the combination of AlibreCAD and 4 axis AlibreCAM (MecSoft).
> > >
> > > But, all I lose if I stop paying is upgrades and support.  The licence
> > for the two PCs (only one runs at a time) is indefinite.  So if I decided
> > to stop paying I can continue to use it until the PCs die.  Then
> > transferring it will probably require a new license.  That's what I liked
> > about the USB dongles. They were plugged into a USB to Ethernet device
> and
> > although I was still restricted to one unit active at a time I didn't
> need
> > to move the dongles around.
> > >
> > > I worry that Fusion360, will lock up your files if you stop paying.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>
> >
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> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Glenn Edwards]

Interesting.  I am a member of ASME and they should be doing something like
this- I will contact my local chapter.

Glenn



On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:14 AM Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:28 AM Mark Johnsen  wrote:
>
> >
> > At $40/year with the EAA, that seems too good to be true.
> >
>
> So far EAA has 8,200 SW users and a very active forum where they
> communicate.  It is actually true. Thousands of members are using it.
>
> SW is not $40.   $40 goes to EAA and SW is one of the benefits of
> membership.
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[N]

> ...
> The problem with open source CAD is you need a sponsor.  The best example
> is when KiCAD picked on CERN (The big European physic lab) as a paying
> sponsor.   The quality of KiCAD jumped upward dramatically when they were
> able to hire full-time people.

Or time. picked CERN as paying sponsor, would guess peopple at CERN would make 
an excellent work themselves if money where spent on some extra staff.

> Also, professional users want professional-level support.  You can be
> paying a $120K/year engineer to post questions on public forums and hope
> some other engineer is able to help.   It is worth paying for tech support
> if your users are on salary.

Know anybody who want to pay $112K/year?

> Many people here, I assume have never seen good, first-tier technical
> support.   I used to write software and many times I'd fly out to
> the user's site in Europe, the US, or Korea and just talk to them about
> what they needed and watch them work.  Our customers paid 7 or 8 digit
> prices and got what they asked for and quite a lot more.

Seems to be good business to sell support, happen to know it happen to know if 
it happen wooden head get support while others have to get by without, would 
expect this business model would be particularly good then selling consulting 
work.

> Even open source projects need money coming in.  The big ones find ways to
> generate income, usually by consulting work.

Less money need to be spent if using open source, drawback may be software not 
equally good although differences is shrinking and some time need to be spent 
on improvements which will also benefit others.


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Glenn Edwards]

Listening in on this email trail it's pretty clear the subscription model
the vendors are moving toward have gotchas for the users.  Before you
decide to quit you had better back everything up to a neutral format: STEP
for solids and PDF or DXF for the drawings.  I 'own' SolidWorks2015 but it
is running on Win7 and pretty soon the computer will die and I am not
confident SW2015 will run properly on Win10.  So, I had better begin the
backup process

Glenn


On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:53 AM Ron Buck  wrote:

> I have a F360 license - single seat locked in at $350 per year. List price
> is $495. AD seems to run promotions once or twice a year. Right now you can
> get it for ~$300. Less I think if you buy 3 years upfront. What I remember
> from the ads I’m getting.
>
> Remember F360 (and I’m pretty sure the SW deal) are subscriptions; they
> can (and do) change the rules from time to time. I certainly have my issues
> AD, but I’m a reasonably happy user. I bought the single seat a year or 2
> ago even though I’m a home user, because you had to know they were going to
> keep adding further restrictions to the free license.
>
> For some, that won’t buy a single good bottle of Whiskey, but for me at
> the moment its about 3. Remember: there are no bad whiskey’s, just
> different ones :)
>
> Ron
>
> > On Sep 17, 2020, at 10:36 AM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Eric Keller [mailto:keller...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: September-17-20 10:16 AM
> >> Last time I checked, many years ago now, solidworks without simulations
> was
> >> $4k.  They have sometimes not offered that split and it was $8k with the
> >> simulations.  I feel like it hasn't gotten cheaper. Anyone have a recent
> >> price?
> >> Eric Keller
> >> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 1:13 PM John Dammeyer 
> >> wrote:
> >>
>  From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
>  Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe
> they
> >>> come and want the full fee.
> >>>
> >>> What's the fee for small usage?  The key change they've made is the
> >>> inability to export step or iges files to other CAD systems.  You have
> >>> until January to save all your drawings in that format.
> >>>
> >>> But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a
> much
> >>> more eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have to
> give
> >>> up per year for it?
> >>>
> >>> John Dammeyer
> >
> >
> > Actually I was wondering more about Fusion360 per year.  If it's
> $50/month then that's $600 per year and that's still less than I'm paying
> for the combination of AlibreCAD and 4 axis AlibreCAM (MecSoft).
> >
> > But, all I lose if I stop paying is upgrades and support.  The licence
> for the two PCs (only one runs at a time) is indefinite.  So if I decided
> to stop paying I can continue to use it until the PCs die.  Then
> transferring it will probably require a new license.  That's what I liked
> about the USB dongles. They were plugged into a USB to Ethernet device and
> although I was still restricted to one unit active at a time I didn't need
> to move the dongles around.
> >
> > I worry that Fusion360, will lock up your files if you stop paying.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Chris Albertson]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:28 AM Mark Johnsen  wrote:

>
> At $40/year with the EAA, that seems too good to be true.
>

So far EAA has 8,200 SW users and a very active forum where they
communicate.  It is actually true. Thousands of members are using it.

SW is not $40.   $40 goes to EAA and SW is one of the benefits of
membership.
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> This list is about tools.  But tools are pretty worthless unless you use
> them to make stuff.  If all the things you can build in a shop airplanes
> have to be the over-the-top most expensive and difficult if you build them
> one at a time by hand.   I'm making small robots now


Hey Chris, 

For me, from the hobby perspective it's as much about building the tools as 
using them.  Although I rarely use it I am still very pleased with my Gingery 
Lathe which ended up launching my ELS.

OTOH, from a business perspective the first custom heatsink for a project was 
carved out on the CNC router from an existing PC processor heat sink.  
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/HeatSink.htm

But I'm not set up to make them commercially.  So a local machine shop with 
HAAS and decades of experience took the drawings and made them for me.  The 
HAAS is good enough to chamfer each fin edge so post rework wasn't required.  
Straight from them to Vancouver to the Anodizing place.

John Dammeyer




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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Ron Buck]

I have a F360 license - single seat locked in at $350 per year. List price is 
$495. AD seems to run promotions once or twice a year. Right now you can get it 
for ~$300. Less I think if you buy 3 years upfront. What I remember from the 
ads I’m getting.

Remember F360 (and I’m pretty sure the SW deal) are subscriptions; they can 
(and do) change the rules from time to time. I certainly have my issues AD, but 
I’m a reasonably happy user. I bought the single seat a year or 2 ago even 
though I’m a home user, because you had to know they were going to keep adding 
further restrictions to the free license.

For some, that won’t buy a single good bottle of Whiskey, but for me at the 
moment its about 3. Remember: there are no bad whiskey’s, just different ones :)

Ron

> On Sep 17, 2020, at 10:36 AM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
>> From: Eric Keller [mailto:keller...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: September-17-20 10:16 AM
>> Last time I checked, many years ago now, solidworks without simulations was
>> $4k.  They have sometimes not offered that split and it was $8k with the
>> simulations.  I feel like it hasn't gotten cheaper. Anyone have a recent
>> price?
>> Eric Keller
>> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 1:13 PM John Dammeyer 
>> wrote:
>> 
 From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
 Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe they
>>> come and want the full fee.
>>> 
>>> What's the fee for small usage?  The key change they've made is the
>>> inability to export step or iges files to other CAD systems.  You have
>>> until January to save all your drawings in that format.
>>> 
>>> But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a much
>>> more eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have to give
>>> up per year for it?
>>> 
>>> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
> Actually I was wondering more about Fusion360 per year.  If it's $50/month 
> then that's $600 per year and that's still less than I'm paying for the 
> combination of AlibreCAD and 4 axis AlibreCAM (MecSoft).
> 
> But, all I lose if I stop paying is upgrades and support.  The licence for 
> the two PCs (only one runs at a time) is indefinite.  So if I decided to stop 
> paying I can continue to use it until the PCs die.  Then transferring it will 
> probably require a new license.  That's what I liked about the USB dongles. 
> They were plugged into a USB to Ethernet device and although I was still 
> restricted to one unit active at a time I didn't need to move the dongles 
> around.
> 
> I worry that Fusion360, will lock up your files if you stop paying.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Chris Albertson]

The problem is keeping Fusion 360 going does requires about 40 full-time
staff.  Fusion 360 has about a 6% or 7% market share but the vast majority
of users are not paying.The company can afford the loss because they
also sell Autocad.

The problem with open source CAD is you need a sponsor.  The best example
is when KiCAD picked on CERN (The big European physic lab) as a paying
sponsor.   The quality of KiCAD jumped upward dramatically when they were
able to hire full-time people.

Also, professional users want professional-level support.  You can be
paying a $120K/year engineer to post questions on public forums and hope
some other engineer is able to help.   It is worth paying for tech support
if your users are on salary.

Many people here, I assume have never seen good, first-tier technical
support.   I used to write software and many times I'd fly out to
the user's site in Europe, the US, or Korea and just talk to them about
what they needed and watch them work.  Our customers paid 7 or 8 digit
prices and got what they asked for and quite a lot more.

Even open source projects need money coming in.  The big ones find ways to
generate income, usually by consulting work.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:12 AM N  wrote:

> > > ...
> > > > I used to use Fusion 360 ...  I wasn�t prepared to pay the $50 per
> month so I lost all my
> > > > Fusion drawings. Be careful!!!
> > >
> > > I had the same issue with Alibre once, so don't really trust them
> either.
> > >
> > As was expected, I believe AlibreCAD was always designed to be sold.
>
> They need some way to earn money as everyone else but it's not possible to
> write some software and live on it forever, over time it is leaning towards
> open source. Maybe with some luck it will be possible to work shorter days
> then there is less need to write new software and other development, though
> still need to know how to use it.
>
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Eric Keller [mailto:keller...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-17-20 10:16 AM
> Last time I checked, many years ago now, solidworks without simulations was
> $4k.  They have sometimes not offered that split and it was $8k with the
> simulations.  I feel like it hasn't gotten cheaper. Anyone have a recent
> price?
> Eric Keller
> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 1:13 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > > From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> > > Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe they
> > come and want the full fee.
> >
> > What's the fee for small usage?  The key change they've made is the
> > inability to export step or iges files to other CAD systems.  You have
> > until January to save all your drawings in that format.
> >
> > But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a much
> > more eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have to give
> > up per year for it?
> >
> > John Dammeyer


Actually I was wondering more about Fusion360 per year.  If it's $50/month then 
that's $600 per year and that's still less than I'm paying for the combination 
of AlibreCAD and 4 axis AlibreCAM (MecSoft).

But, all I lose if I stop paying is upgrades and support.  The licence for the 
two PCs (only one runs at a time) is indefinite.  So if I decided to stop 
paying I can continue to use it until the PCs die.  Then transferring it will 
probably require a new license.  That's what I liked about the USB dongles.  
They were plugged into a USB to Ethernet device and although I was still 
restricted to one unit active at a time I didn't need to move the dongles 
around.

I worry that Fusion360, will lock up your files if you stop paying.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Chris Albertson]

I just looked it up.   Your prices are still accurate but there is a $1,300
per year maintenance and support fee also.  So you pay $4k or $8K up front
one-time.   Then maintenance and support for as long as you continue to use
the software.

For the intended user base this reasonable.   It adds less then 1% cost and
improves productivity by far more then 1%

Or compare the cost of Solidworks to the cost of a full size CNC machine.
The $8K cost is "in the noise".

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:18 AM Eric Keller  wrote:

> Last time I checked, many years ago now, solidworks without simulations was
> $4k.  They have sometimes not offered that split and it was $8k with the
> simulations.  I feel like it hasn't gotten cheaper. Anyone have a recent
> price?
> Eric Keller
> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 1:13 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > > From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> > > Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe
> they
> > come and want the full fee.
> >
> > What's the fee for small usage?  The key change they've made is the
> > inability to export step or iges files to other CAD systems.  You have
> > until January to save all your drawings in that format.
> >
> > But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a much
> > more eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have to
> give
> > up per year for it?
> >
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Chris Albertson]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:13 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a much
> more eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have to give
> up per year for it?
>
> A full paid-up commercial license for Fusion 360 is $495 per year.  That
is really "nothing" if you are earning a living with it.   Many
hobby-business users could afford $500.

A full paid-up commercial license for SOLIDWORKS is $4000 initially then
$1,300 per year after that.  But they have deals for startups and students
(and EAA members).   But $1,300 is a trivially small price for a company
that is already paying the engineer to come to work every day and for the
company overhead and for his computer.   $1,300 is very affordable if you
are Boing, GM, or Tesla.  As you are paying the employee/user literally 100
times more.



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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Mark Johnsen]

I had SWs Premium in 2015-ish and it was a deal at $6k per copy and I think
$2k per year maintenance.  That included simulation in the premium version,
I think there's another add-on that costs $$ as well, but forget...

At $40/year with the EAA, that seems too good to be true.

I had used HSM works CAM Package from AutoDesk of all places and it was
really nice.  It integrated directly into SWs.  At the time it was FREE for
2.5 axes (maybe 3, fuzzy memory here).  If you wanted 4 axes then it jumped
to $5k or so, like everyother CAM package...  5 axis was over $10k, if
I remember correctly.

Mark


>

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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Chris Albertson]

Unless the plane has sentimental value, you should sell it.
 Actually buying a project is a great why to build a plane.  The Ospry 2
has been around long enough that it is well known

I started work on an Acro Sport II.  A very conventional biplane but then
came getting married and family and so on and I could not justify such a
time consuming and expensive hobby.

This list is about tools.  But tools are pretty worthless unless you use
them to make stuff.  If all the things you can build in a shop airplanes
have to be the over-the-top most expensive and difficult if you build them
one at a time by hand.   I'm making small robots now

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > Was it on this list yet?  If you join EAA for $40 per year you get full
> > access to Solidworks Premium as well as training and certification.
>  This
> > is not a stripped-down trial version but the full-up system that is
> > widely used in the automotive and aerospace industry.   The only
> limitation
> > is they expect you to use it for personal use only.
> >
> > What I have not explored is how well the Solidworks CAM system works.
> What
> > can it do?  Or what can't it do?  I'm sure there are Solidworks CAM users
> > on this list.
> >
> > If you like airplanes the EAA might be worth it even without getting
> > Solidworks for free.  I was a member for years.
> >
> > www.eaa.org/...SOLIDWORKS-Education-Premium-Now-Free-for-EAA-Members
> > <
> https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/08-15-2019-SOLIDWORKS-Education-Premium-
> > Now-Free-for-EAA-Members>
>
> My father almost finished one of these.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osprey_Osprey_2
> My brother ended up with the carcass and I suspect it will never be
> finished and I'm the only one in the family who achieved a pilot's
> license.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Eric Keller]

Last time I checked, many years ago now, solidworks without simulations was
$4k.  They have sometimes not offered that split and it was $8k with the
simulations.  I feel like it hasn't gotten cheaper. Anyone have a recent
price?
Eric Keller
Boalsburg, Pennsylvania

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 1:13 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> > From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> > Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe they
> come and want the full fee.
>
> What's the fee for small usage?  The key change they've made is the
> inability to export step or iges files to other CAD systems.  You have
> until January to save all your drawings in that format.
>
> But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a much
> more eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have to give
> up per year for it?
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe they come 
> and want the full fee.

What's the fee for small usage?  The key change they've made is the inability 
to export step or iges files to other CAD systems.  You have until January to 
save all your drawings in that format.  

But how much per year does a license really cost?  Or to put it in a much more 
eloquent currency, how many bottles of good Scotch do you have to give up per 
year for it?

John Dammeyer





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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[N]

> > ...
> > > I used to use Fusion 360 ...  I wasn�t prepared to pay the $50 per month 
> > > so I lost all my
> > > Fusion drawings. Be careful!!!
> > 
> > I had the same issue with Alibre once, so don't really trust them either.
> > 
> As was expected, I believe AlibreCAD was always designed to be sold.

They need some way to earn money as everyone else but it's not possible to 
write some software and live on it forever, over time it is leaning towards 
open source. Maybe with some luck it will be possible to work shorter days then 
there is less need to write new software and other development, though still 
need to know how to use it.


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[N]

Watchout, if they discover you use it for anything commercial maybe they come 
and want the full fee.

> Was it on this list yet?  If you join EAA for $40 per year you get full
> access to Solidworks Premium as well as training and certification.   This
> is not a stripped-down trial version but the full-up system that is
> widely used in the automotive and aerospace industry.   The only limitation
> is they expect you to use it for personal use only.
> 
> What I have not explored is how well the Solidworks CAM system works.  What
> can it do?  Or what can't it do?  I'm sure there are Solidworks CAM users
> on this list.
> 
> If you like airplanes the EAA might be worth it even without getting
> Solidworks for free.  I was a member for years.
> 
> www.eaa.org/...SOLIDWORKS-Education-Premium-Now-Free-for-EAA-Members
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Was it on this list yet?  If you join EAA for $40 per year you get full
> access to Solidworks Premium as well as training and certification.   This
> is not a stripped-down trial version but the full-up system that is
> widely used in the automotive and aerospace industry.   The only limitation
> is they expect you to use it for personal use only.
> 
> What I have not explored is how well the Solidworks CAM system works.  What
> can it do?  Or what can't it do?  I'm sure there are Solidworks CAM users
> on this list.
> 
> If you like airplanes the EAA might be worth it even without getting
> Solidworks for free.  I was a member for years.
> 
> www.eaa.org/...SOLIDWORKS-Education-Premium-Now-Free-for-EAA-Members
>  Now-Free-for-EAA-Members>

My father almost finished one of these. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osprey_Osprey_2
My brother ended up with the carcass and I suspect it will never be finished 
and I'm the only one in the family who achieved a pilot's license.  

John Dammeyer




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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[dave engvall]

Chris,
You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too expensive. 
Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe, solids,  
turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is extrusion 
screws.
Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has a 30 
day free demo.

https://www.webersys.com/

As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to learn.

YMMV

Dave

On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
lathes that runs on Linux.

The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/. But unlike
Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths unless
you get some 3rd party add-in software.

I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux based
16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.  Onshape
on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've not
figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.

Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done for
complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof" that
g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.

One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC, installing
Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a rarely
powerful Linux PC.
(At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)

I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long time and
before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I wanted to
edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the only game in
town for professional-level media editing unless you consider Apple's Final
Cut Pro X.None of this runs on Linux.


On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:38 PM R C  wrote:


On 9/16/20 12:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free even for
commercial use until you make $50K using it.

Fusion is a little bit like Freecad but is more complete and better
supported as you would expect of a product from Autodesk.


I have heard about that one.   does it run on Linux too?




On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:39 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling them on
a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.


I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard, that
you can't really  make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.


What wold be a good choice for designing, simple, parts for a lathe,
that will create g-code for it?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Chris Albertson]

I just posted a legal way to get Solidworks for $40 which is close enough
to free.

Back to Fusion360.   You should not have lost your drawings.   They can be
saved locally as .STEP files.  Step files are universal and can be imported
to just about any CAD system.

Yes they do charge for Fusion if you make money with it.  The threshold
used to be $50K then that changed to a $100K threshold but now they judge
if you are still in "startup" mode or if you are an established business.
  The paid license is only $495 per year and if you are using Fusion to
earn $100K you can afford $495.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 1:40 AM  wrote:

>
> I use Alibre Atom 3D CAD package which I find excellent and is a very
> cheap one time purchase. There is a CAM package too but it’s more
> expensive.
>
> I used to use Fusion 360 but they stopped my free licence when they
> looked at my website and found I did some ‘job shopping’ _regardless of
> turn over_. I wasn’t prepared to pay the $50 per month so I lost all my
> Fusion drawings. Be careful!!!
>
> I am a newbie to CNC machining but like Andy and the others say it’s
> best and quite easy to learn G-Code and routines for turning especially
> once you have a few templates you can just modify.
>
> Andy’s macro addon to LCNC axis is very good too.
>
> Pete
>
> > On 16 Sep 2020, at 11:44, N  wrote:
> >
> > 
> >> Hello,
> >> I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling them on
> >> a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.
> >> I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard,
> >> that you can't really make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.
> >
> > Also used Freecad a little bit. Suspect rotating a sketch is a good or
> > very good method to draw parts for a lathe. Do know anything about how
> > CAM, the path workbench will work a lathe but should be simple to try.
> >
> > As someone pointed out Fusion 360 might be better but CAD software
> > usually also tend to be rather expensive.
> >
> >
> > Regards Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> >
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Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-circular boring. Linuxcnc style.

[Sam Sokolik]

With a properly sharpened tool - and a bit more hp - you could plunge a
cutter to make the shape..  (like a circular shaper..)

I did it on the emco but the quality wasn't as nice..  (partly the
rigidity and partly the cutter grind)  so - that is way faster...

http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200915_174431.jpg

http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200915_182303.jpg

sam



On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> As always both videos are very impressive.  Although I think Andy Pugh
> would just move his lathe chuck onto his Harmonic Drive 4th axis and make
> the square in far less than 7 minutes.
>
> Maybe a competition?  On your marks. Get set. Go!
>
> Very cool Sam!  One day maybe I'll be able to do it too.
> Thanks for posting those.
> John Dammeyer
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-17-20 6:56 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Non-circular boring. Linuxcnc style.
> >
> > Thought I would test a square - adding a radius to the corner certainly
> > helped the path following.  (I think this was .030")
> >
> > https://youtu.be/Q9zhi8Mc1fE
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:03 AM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sunday 03 May 2020 14:34:24 Sam Sokolik wrote:
> > >
> > > > https://youtu.be/PtD9w6lp8n8
> > >
> > > Sam, dammit, you are having too much fun while the rest of us are more
> or
> > > less locked up.
> > >
> > > But it shows others what LinuxCNC CAN do, so I love it. That said, in
> low
> > > gear, my spincle encoder scale is a bit over 14,000, so I ought to be
> > > able to do some of that too. If I can con it into going that slow.
> Since
> > > I have 2x the nameplate FLA to hit that motor with, I don't see why
> not.
> > > 1st step is 100 rpm in high gear, and its still turning ar 15% on the
> > > slider, I'll bet it can do it in low gear. Gotta get me a boring head
> > > athough I see you aren't always useing one. Gotta put a range switch on
> > > the tach, its sorta difficult to see 10 rpm on a 3000 scale.  I wonder
> > > just how far I can push PGain at that sort of speed, its plumb stable
> > > and silent at 20 right now and just a bit shaky at 40. I have said for
> a
> > > long time that there isn't anything that LinuxCNC cannot do and things
> > > like this continue to prove it.
> > >
> > > I hope all those guys using Mach on youtube are dying of jealousy. My
> > > grin us hurting my ears. :)
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 6:43 AM Stuart Stevenson 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Sam,
> > > > >   I heard you say your circle is a polygon of a thousand sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > In APT4 a circle of 2500 inches radius is calculated as a straight
> > > > > line. That allows an algorithm for part profiles to be described as
> > > > > all radiuses and the variable values determine the lines and
> > > > > circles.
> > > > > Just another possibly interesting random detail out of the wet
> > > > > ram(thanks Gene) brought out by a random comment.
> > > > >
> > > > > Love your videos.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stuart
> > >
> > > All it takes is for somebody to ask 'what if?'.  I do it occasionally,
> so
> > > have you, but Sam seems like he does it a lot. And all of us benefit
> > > from this lists ability to answer the questions generated by our
> wildest
> > > dreams.
> > >
> > > Thank you all.
> > >
> > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:57 PM Sam Sokolik 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > just to see if it would...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://youtu.be/a7CO9gohaXE
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 2:54 PM Sam Sokolik 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > the new encoder seems to work good :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:53 PM Jon Elson
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> On 04/21/2020 09:11 PM, Sam Sokolik wrote:
> > > > > > >> > Just the way the path was generated...  Didn't try that
> hard.
> > > > > > >> >  Acad
> > > > >
> > > > > ->
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> ace
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > converter for simple stuff like this.  (Or by hand)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I have a bunch of little C programs that write most of my
> > > > > > >> G-code. Making round bores and rectangular pockets, and
> > > > > > >> trepanning both of those shapes in sheet materials.  All of
> > > > > > >> them do it by climb mill.
> > > > > > >> Even when I did some things in bobcad, I set it up for climb
> > > > > > >> mill.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Try it sometime, you'll be surprised how much better it
> > > > > > >> works - ESPECIALLY in aluminum.  Just program it to go
> > > > > > >> counterclockwise around any internal pocket.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Jon
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> ___
> > > > > > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > > >> https://lists.sourcefor

[Emc-users] Solidworks for $40.

[Chris Albertson]

Was it on this list yet?  If you join EAA for $40 per year you get full
access to Solidworks Premium as well as training and certification.   This
is not a stripped-down trial version but the full-up system that is
widely used in the automotive and aerospace industry.   The only limitation
is they expect you to use it for personal use only.

What I have not explored is how well the Solidworks CAM system works.  What
can it do?  Or what can't it do?  I'm sure there are Solidworks CAM users
on this list.

If you like airplanes the EAA might be worth it even without getting
Solidworks for free.  I was a member for years.

www.eaa.org/...SOLIDWORKS-Education-Premium-Now-Free-for-EAA-Members





-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-circular boring. Linuxcnc style.

[John Dammeyer]

As always both videos are very impressive.  Although I think Andy Pugh would 
just move his lathe chuck onto his Harmonic Drive 4th axis and make the square 
in far less than 7 minutes.

Maybe a competition?  On your marks. Get set. Go!

Very cool Sam!  One day maybe I'll be able to do it too.
Thanks for posting those.
John Dammeyer


> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-17-20 6:56 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Non-circular boring. Linuxcnc style.
> 
> Thought I would test a square - adding a radius to the corner certainly
> helped the path following.  (I think this was .030")
> 
> https://youtu.be/Q9zhi8Mc1fE
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:03 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday 03 May 2020 14:34:24 Sam Sokolik wrote:
> >
> > > https://youtu.be/PtD9w6lp8n8
> >
> > Sam, dammit, you are having too much fun while the rest of us are more or
> > less locked up.
> >
> > But it shows others what LinuxCNC CAN do, so I love it. That said, in low
> > gear, my spincle encoder scale is a bit over 14,000, so I ought to be
> > able to do some of that too. If I can con it into going that slow. Since
> > I have 2x the nameplate FLA to hit that motor with, I don't see why not.
> > 1st step is 100 rpm in high gear, and its still turning ar 15% on the
> > slider, I'll bet it can do it in low gear. Gotta get me a boring head
> > athough I see you aren't always useing one. Gotta put a range switch on
> > the tach, its sorta difficult to see 10 rpm on a 3000 scale.  I wonder
> > just how far I can push PGain at that sort of speed, its plumb stable
> > and silent at 20 right now and just a bit shaky at 40. I have said for a
> > long time that there isn't anything that LinuxCNC cannot do and things
> > like this continue to prove it.
> >
> > I hope all those guys using Mach on youtube are dying of jealousy. My
> > grin us hurting my ears. :)
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 6:43 AM Stuart Stevenson 
> > wrote:
> > > > Sam,
> > > >   I heard you say your circle is a polygon of a thousand sides.
> > > >
> > > > In APT4 a circle of 2500 inches radius is calculated as a straight
> > > > line. That allows an algorithm for part profiles to be described as
> > > > all radiuses and the variable values determine the lines and
> > > > circles.
> > > > Just another possibly interesting random detail out of the wet
> > > > ram(thanks Gene) brought out by a random comment.
> > > >
> > > > Love your videos.
> > > >
> > > > Stuart
> >
> > All it takes is for somebody to ask 'what if?'.  I do it occasionally, so
> > have you, but Sam seems like he does it a lot. And all of us benefit
> > from this lists ability to answer the questions generated by our wildest
> > dreams.
> >
> > Thank you all.
> >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:57 PM Sam Sokolik 
> > wrote:
> > > > > just to see if it would...
> > > > >
> > > > > https://youtu.be/a7CO9gohaXE
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 2:54 PM Sam Sokolik 
> > wrote:
> > > > > > the new encoder seems to work good :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:53 PM Jon Elson
> > > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> On 04/21/2020 09:11 PM, Sam Sokolik wrote:
> > > > > >> > Just the way the path was generated...  Didn't try that hard.
> > > > > >> >  Acad
> > > >
> > > > ->
> > > >
> > > > > >> ace
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > converter for simple stuff like this.  (Or by hand)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have a bunch of little C programs that write most of my
> > > > > >> G-code. Making round bores and rectangular pockets, and
> > > > > >> trepanning both of those shapes in sheet materials.  All of
> > > > > >> them do it by climb mill.
> > > > > >> Even when I did some things in bobcad, I set it up for climb
> > > > > >> mill.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Try it sometime, you'll be surprised how much better it
> > > > > >> works - ESPECIALLY in aluminum.  Just program it to go
> > > > > >> counterclockwise around any internal pocket.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Jon
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ___
> > > > > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Addressee is the intended audience.
> > > > If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to
> > > > read this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this
> > > > without saving or reading, and cease and desist from saving or
> > > > opening my private correspondence.
> > > > Thank you for honoring my wish.
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> 

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-17-20 1:49 AM
> To: phodg...@uk22.net; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> 
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 09:40,  wrote:
> 
> > I used to use Fusion 360 ...  I wasn�t prepared to pay the $50 per month so 
> > I lost all my
> > Fusion drawings. Be careful!!!
> 
> I had the same issue with Alibre once, so don't really trust them either.
> 
As was expected, I believe AlibreCAD was always designed to be sold.  And that 
they did to3D Systems and it became Geomagic.  The advantage with Geomagic is 
that it allowed USB based dongles for the license and it could import 3D 
slicing files.  The Mecsoft changed over to their standalone package for a 
while.

Ultimately, Geomagic languished with very few upgrades or bug fixes and the 
original authors bought it back.  The dongles became useless and MecSoft 
reintegrated AlibreCAM into AlibreCAD.

I now have the 4th Axis version of AlibreCAM (MecsoftCAM) and just received the 
invoice for another year for $400.  I think I'll pay it for one more year while 
I wait and see how other CAD/CAM systems play out.

This stuff isn't cheap but like anything from a musical instrument to ballroom 
dancing, it requires constant practice to stay competent.   And if you can do 
one project for someone that pays $400 for machine time etc. then consider the 
CAM software free.

John


> But saying "Don't use CAM, use hand-coding" seems a bit of a stretch.
> (Though G72 can make that more plausible on a lathe  than complex 3D
> milling on a mill)
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Jon Elson]

On 09/17/2020 03:37 AM, peterjohnhodg...@gmail.com wrote:



I used to use Fusion 360 but they stopped my free licence 
when they looked at my website and found I did some ‘job 
shopping’ _regardless of turn over_. I wasn’t prepared to 
pay the $50 per month so I lost all my Fusion drawings. Be 
careful!!!


*** THIS *** is the kicker!  Not that you someday might not 
be able to use the package anymore, but that ALL THE WORK 
you did with it may become unavailable.  That's a REAL 
downside to "free".


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] can't unhome on external error

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 17 September 2020 08:28:00 andy pugh wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 10:34, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > halui.joint.0.unhome
>
> Consider using VOLATILE_HOME
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-config.html#_joint__lt_nu
>m_gt_section

Thanks Andy.

But then I'll need to "net" into this somehow, in order to stop the whole 
maryann, which is also all machine power, vfd included:

net user-enable <= iocontrol.0.user-request-enable => estop-latch.0.reset
net enable-latch <= estop-latch.0.ok-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in 

If I'm reading the halmeter menu right, thats halui.estop.activate
But thats yet another or2 to combine them since it won't let me hit it 
twice, once for each error. I think thats done, I'll test after 
breakfast.

Thanks Andy

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Non-circular boring. Linuxcnc style.

[Sam Sokolik]

Thought I would test a square - adding a radius to the corner certainly
helped the path following.  (I think this was .030")

https://youtu.be/Q9zhi8Mc1fE


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:03 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 03 May 2020 14:34:24 Sam Sokolik wrote:
>
> > https://youtu.be/PtD9w6lp8n8
>
> Sam, dammit, you are having too much fun while the rest of us are more or
> less locked up.
>
> But it shows others what LinuxCNC CAN do, so I love it. That said, in low
> gear, my spincle encoder scale is a bit over 14,000, so I ought to be
> able to do some of that too. If I can con it into going that slow. Since
> I have 2x the nameplate FLA to hit that motor with, I don't see why not.
> 1st step is 100 rpm in high gear, and its still turning ar 15% on the
> slider, I'll bet it can do it in low gear. Gotta get me a boring head
> athough I see you aren't always useing one. Gotta put a range switch on
> the tach, its sorta difficult to see 10 rpm on a 3000 scale.  I wonder
> just how far I can push PGain at that sort of speed, its plumb stable
> and silent at 20 right now and just a bit shaky at 40. I have said for a
> long time that there isn't anything that LinuxCNC cannot do and things
> like this continue to prove it.
>
> I hope all those guys using Mach on youtube are dying of jealousy. My
> grin us hurting my ears. :)
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 6:43 AM Stuart Stevenson 
> wrote:
> > > Sam,
> > >   I heard you say your circle is a polygon of a thousand sides.
> > >
> > > In APT4 a circle of 2500 inches radius is calculated as a straight
> > > line. That allows an algorithm for part profiles to be described as
> > > all radiuses and the variable values determine the lines and
> > > circles.
> > > Just another possibly interesting random detail out of the wet
> > > ram(thanks Gene) brought out by a random comment.
> > >
> > > Love your videos.
> > >
> > > Stuart
>
> All it takes is for somebody to ask 'what if?'.  I do it occasionally, so
> have you, but Sam seems like he does it a lot. And all of us benefit
> from this lists ability to answer the questions generated by our wildest
> dreams.
>
> Thank you all.
>
> > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:57 PM Sam Sokolik 
> wrote:
> > > > just to see if it would...
> > > >
> > > > https://youtu.be/a7CO9gohaXE
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 2:54 PM Sam Sokolik 
> wrote:
> > > > > the new encoder seems to work good :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:53 PM Jon Elson
> > > > > 
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> On 04/21/2020 09:11 PM, Sam Sokolik wrote:
> > > > >> > Just the way the path was generated...  Didn't try that hard.
> > > > >> >  Acad
> > >
> > > ->
> > >
> > > > >> ace
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > converter for simple stuff like this.  (Or by hand)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have a bunch of little C programs that write most of my
> > > > >> G-code. Making round bores and rectangular pockets, and
> > > > >> trepanning both of those shapes in sheet materials.  All of
> > > > >> them do it by climb mill.
> > > > >> Even when I did some things in bobcad, I set it up for climb
> > > > >> mill.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Try it sometime, you'll be surprised how much better it
> > > > >> works - ESPECIALLY in aluminum.  Just program it to go
> > > > >> counterclockwise around any internal pocket.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jon
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ___
> > > > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > > > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > --
> > > Addressee is the intended audience.
> > > If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to
> > > read this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this
> > > without saving or reading, and cease and desist from saving or
> > > opening my private correspondence.
> > > Thank you for honoring my wish.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] can't unhome on external error

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 10:34, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> halui.joint.0.unhome

Consider using VOLATILE_HOME

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-config.html#_joint__lt_num_gt_section

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] can't unhome on external error

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Why is this command, used as a target in a halfile net statement

halui.joint.0.unhome

rejected as a mode related error?

The condition leading to this error is:
one of the stepper/servo's has been mechanically stopped and the driver 
has done a shutdown, relaying that fault to LinuxCNC by dropping a gpio 
pin to false. When this driver shutdown occurs, the motor is freed, the 
mechanics unwinds the spring, and the axis may jump an eight of an inch 
away from the blockage, so the validity of the home has been lost and an 
unhome seems like a very good idea, stopping any program execution in 
its tracks.

The fact that my finger may still be on a jog key, commanding a move when 
this occurs, s/b totally immaterial.  Home has been lost, unmark it.

I note that if homed, axis has no problem unhoming an axis, or all of 
them, from its machine pulldown menu.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 09:40,  wrote:

> I used to use Fusion 360 ...  I wasn’t prepared to pay the $50 per month so I 
> lost all my
> Fusion drawings. Be careful!!!

I had the same issue with Alibre once, so don't really trust them either.

But saying "Don't use CAM, use hand-coding" seems a bit of a stretch.
(Though G72 can make that more plausible on a lathe  than complex 3D
milling on a mill)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[peterjohnhodgson]

I use Alibre Atom 3D CAD package which I find excellent and is a very 
cheap one time purchase. There is a CAM package too but it’s more 
expensive.


I used to use Fusion 360 but they stopped my free licence when they 
looked at my website and found I did some ‘job shopping’ _regardless of 
turn over_. I wasn’t prepared to pay the $50 per month so I lost all my 
Fusion drawings. Be careful!!!


I am a newbie to CNC machining but like Andy and the others say it’s 
best and quite easy to learn G-Code and routines for turning especially 
once you have a few templates you can just modify.


Andy’s macro addon to LCNC axis is very good too.

Pete


On 16 Sep 2020, at 11:44, N  wrote:



Hello,
I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling them on
a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.
I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard, 
that you can't really make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.


Also used Freecad a little bit. Suspect rotating a sketch is a good or 
very good method to draw parts for a lathe. Do know anything about how 
CAM, the path workbench will work a lathe but should be simple to try.


As someone pointed out Fusion 360 might be better but CAD software 
usually also tend to be rather expensive.



Regards Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 07:12, Chris Albertson  wrote:
>
> Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free even for
> commercial use until you make $50K using it.

Though the internet is aflame with news that Autodesk have announced
that they have turned evil (as predited) with the F360 license.

In reality I think that they are just trying to make the delta between
free and paid bigger to encourage more paid subscriptions. But till
things settle down I probably wouldn't suggest getting too tied-in to
F360.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Rafael Skodlar]

Hi Ron,

Here is how I searched for what you are trying to do if I understand you 
right.


CLI is the best way to manage software in my experience. I rarely use 
GUI utility even in Kubuntu workstation.


As a root in my Kubuntu I have the following aliases:
alias acse='apt-cache search '
alias acsh='apt-cache show '
alias agar='apt-get autoremove'
alias agd='apt-get dist-upgrade'
alias agg='apt-get upgrade '
alias agi='apt-get install '
alias agr='apt-get remove'
alias agu='apt-get update '
alias asv='apt-show-versions -p'

On 9/15/20 9:37 PM, R C wrote:

Hello,


I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling them on 
a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.


I tried to get used to FreeCAD too but takes more time than I can 
dedicate at this point.





I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard, that 
you can't really  make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.


So for program or related library search I do it this way:
* command
acse lathe

That returns more or less related lines with a description like this:

dxf2gcode - prepares drawings of parts for automatic machine tools
php-tcpdf - PHP class for generating PDF files on-the-fly
ruby-ami - Ruby client library for the Asterisk Management Interface

next command will tell me more about some related package:
acsh dxf2gcode

Homepage: https://sourceforge.net/p/dxf2gcode/wiki/Home/
Description-en: prepares drawings of parts for automatic machine tools
 This program reads 2D mechanical drawings of parts to be fabricated
 and produces G-code tool movement instructions for running on automatic
 machine tools (CNC machines) such as milling machines and lathes.
 .
 This is a graphical CAM (Computer Aided Manufacturing) program.
 It accepts input in DXF, PDF, or Postscript format.  It supports 
milling, drilling, and turning operations, as well as work-holding tabs.


I did not include lines with checksums etc. to make it clearer here.

What wold be a good choice for designing, simple, parts for a lathe, 
that will create g-code for it?


"It accepts input in DXF, PDF, or Postscript format.  It supports 
milling, drilling, and turning operations, as well as work-holding tabs."


That's impressive assuming it work as described.

-
To install the program I would use the command:
agi dxf2gcode

After that you can execute it from CLI or GUI menu.

Of course there is option to install as a unprivileged user:

sudo apt install dxf2gcode
but I'm trying to save keyboard keys ;-)



thanks,


Ron


I have not tried to install and try this program yet but might do it in 
one of my VMs later.


Searching for CAD I received one related app among other things:
solvespace - Parametric 2d/3d CAD

If the output is too long you may narrow it down with
acse cad | grep CAD

here's a description for solvespace:

Homepage: http://solvespace.com
Description-en: Parametric 2d/3d CAD
 SolveSpace is a parametric 2d/3d CAD program. Applications include:
 .
  * modeling 3d parts — draw with extrudes, revolves, and Boolean
(union / difference) operations;
  * modeling 2d parts — draw the part as a single section, and export DXF,
PDF, SVG; use 3d assembly to verify fit;
  * 3d-printed parts — export the STL or other triangle mesh expected by
most 3d printers;
  * preparing CAM data — export 2d vector art for a waterjet machine or
laser cutter; or generate STEP or STL, for import into third-party
CAM software for machining;
  * mechanism design — use the constraint solver to simulate planar or
spatial linkages, with pin, ball, or slide joints;
  * plane and solid geometry — replace hand-solved trigonometry and
spreadsheets with a live dimensioned drawing.

The best test would be to see how the generated (awful) G-code would 
behave in LinuxCNC of course.


This also reminded me about a book I bought in 1990s: The CNC Workbook 
(Addison Wesley 65600) that came with a floppy for DOS program. I 
misplaced the floppy but remember there was a program to simulate CNC 
lathe. Very good book with labs to learn CNC basics.


Good luck,
--
Rafael


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