Re: [Finale] Parts to pdf

[Michael Wittenburg]

>From my time at Sarasota Opera, we used CutePDF as it was our IT chief's 
>favorite.  We even had the pro version which gives you a lot of PDF editing 
>power, and I went and sprung for it, myself, later. But the basic is a simple 
>print-to-pdf and it is free, NOT shareware with ads.

Michael Wittenburg


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Re: [Finale] Parts to pdf

[dr.a.s. weinstangel]

Finale Win pdf export is buggy. 

Download and install (free) Bullzip printer. In Finale click Print, choose 
Bullzip as your printer and it will create Pdf file, which you can save in the 
same folder. 

I then create the cover and inside cover pages, place them and the saved file 
in the Pdf Binder and create the complete part or score. 

Good luck!

Dr. A.S. Weinstangel

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 7, 2019, at 6:28 PM, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 6/7/2019 5:56 PM, Don Hart wrote:
>> I'm on a mac so I'm not sure how this all corresponds, but I select
>> everything I want to print in the Finale print dialog and choose "save to
>> pdf" in the pdf dropdown menu. (If the score and parts page sizes differ,
>> each has to be saved separately after adjusting page setup.)  Once I have
>> all the pdfs I put them in their own folder and make a zip file of that
>> folder.  To do this on a mac you select the folder and choose "Compress..."
>> from the file menu.  The zip file can then be sent as an attachment.
> [snip]
> 
> I think that what you're talking about is specific to Macs.  Windows doesn't 
> have a PDF creation routine built into the operating system the way that it 
> seems tha
> 
> Martin is on a Windows machine, and in Finale25 in the File/Export/PDF dialog 
> there is no option to save all the various parts as PDF files. It only works 
> on the particular score or part that you're viewing at the time.
> 
> In the File/Print dialog there is only the option to "print to a file" but in 
> the dialog to specify where to save the files the only option is to get .prn 
> files, which could then be spooled to the printer to get the proper output.
> 
> The best way for a Windows machine is to install a free PDF printer and 
> simply print the files to that printer, which will then save PDF files to 
> whichever folder is specified.
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Parts to pdf

[David H. Bailey]

On 6/7/2019 5:56 PM, Don Hart wrote:

I'm on a mac so I'm not sure how this all corresponds, but I select
everything I want to print in the Finale print dialog and choose "save to
pdf" in the pdf dropdown menu. (If the score and parts page sizes differ,
each has to be saved separately after adjusting page setup.)  Once I have
all the pdfs I put them in their own folder and make a zip file of that
folder.  To do this on a mac you select the folder and choose "Compress..."
from the file menu.  The zip file can then be sent as an attachment.


[snip]

I think that what you're talking about is specific to Macs.  Windows 
doesn't have a PDF creation routine built into the operating system the 
way that it seems tha


Martin is on a Windows machine, and in Finale25 in the File/Export/PDF 
dialog there is no option to save all the various parts as PDF files. 
It only works on the particular score or part that you're viewing at the 
time.


In the File/Print dialog there is only the option to "print to a file" 
but in the dialog to specify where to save the files the only option is 
to get .prn files, which could then be spooled to the printer to get the 
proper output.


The best way for a Windows machine is to install a free PDF printer and 
simply print the files to that printer, which will then save PDF files 
to whichever folder is specified.


--
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Parts to pdf

[Martin Nickless]

Thanks all I will try both
Martin 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 7 Jun 2019, at 22:56, Don Hart  wrote:
> 
> I'm on a mac so I'm not sure how this all corresponds, but I select 
> everything I want to print in the Finale print dialog and choose "save to 
> pdf" in the pdf dropdown menu. (If the score and parts page sizes differ, 
> each has to be saved separately after adjusting page setup.)  Once I have all 
> the pdfs I put them in their own folder and make a zip file of that folder.  
> To do this on a mac you select the folder and choose "Compress..." from the 
> file menu.  The zip file can then be sent as an attachment.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 3:49 PM David H. Bailey  
>> wrote:
>> On 6/7/2019 3:26 PM, Martin Nickless wrote:
>> > Hi can somebody help me with copying my finale parts onto a PDF and 
>> > putting them all in one email I can export scores no problem via PDF but 
>> > would like to get all parts printed I have already formatted them any help 
>> > would be fantastic I am on Windows 10 and finale 25 kind regards Martin
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> If you want to export from within Finale without using an external 
>> printer driver, open each part on screen and then export it to PDF.  I 
>> can't see any way to export them all (score and parts) to PDF files at 
>> one time.   That would take a bit of time.
>> 
>> Or you can install a PDF printer such as CutePDF or PDF995 (it's free if 
>> you don't mind ads on the screen -- they don't print), then print all 
>> the parts to that "printer" and you'll end up with all the parts as PDF 
>> files.  This way you can print them all to PDF files at once simply by 
>> selecting the CutePDF printer and selecting all the parts and the score 
>> and then clicking print.  This is the faster process.  And once you've 
>> got the PDF "printer" installed it'll be there for future projects.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> *
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbaile...@comcast.net
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>> ___
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Re: [Finale] Parts to pdf

[Don Hart]

I'm on a mac so I'm not sure how this all corresponds, but I select
everything I want to print in the Finale print dialog and choose "save to
pdf" in the pdf dropdown menu. (If the score and parts page sizes differ,
each has to be saved separately after adjusting page setup.)  Once I have
all the pdfs I put them in their own folder and make a zip file of that
folder.  To do this on a mac you select the folder and choose "Compress..."
from the file menu.  The zip file can then be sent as an attachment.

Hope this helps.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 3:49 PM David H. Bailey 
wrote:

> On 6/7/2019 3:26 PM, Martin Nickless wrote:
> > Hi can somebody help me with copying my finale parts onto a PDF and
> putting them all in one email I can export scores no problem via PDF but
> would like to get all parts printed I have already formatted them any help
> would be fantastic I am on Windows 10 and finale 25 kind regards Martin
> >
>
>
> If you want to export from within Finale without using an external
> printer driver, open each part on screen and then export it to PDF.  I
> can't see any way to export them all (score and parts) to PDF files at
> one time.   That would take a bit of time.
>
> Or you can install a PDF printer such as CutePDF or PDF995 (it's free if
> you don't mind ads on the screen -- they don't print), then print all
> the parts to that "printer" and you'll end up with all the parts as PDF
> files.  This way you can print them all to PDF files at once simply by
> selecting the CutePDF printer and selecting all the parts and the score
> and then clicking print.  This is the faster process.  And once you've
> got the PDF "printer" installed it'll be there for future projects.
>
>
>
> --
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> ___
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>
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> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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Re: [Finale] Parts to pdf

[David H. Bailey]

On 6/7/2019 3:26 PM, Martin Nickless wrote:

Hi can somebody help me with copying my finale parts onto a PDF and putting 
them all in one email I can export scores no problem via PDF but would like to 
get all parts printed I have already formatted them any help would be fantastic 
I am on Windows 10 and finale 25 kind regards Martin




If you want to export from within Finale without using an external 
printer driver, open each part on screen and then export it to PDF.  I 
can't see any way to export them all (score and parts) to PDF files at 
one time.   That would take a bit of time.


Or you can install a PDF printer such as CutePDF or PDF995 (it's free if 
you don't mind ads on the screen -- they don't print), then print all 
the parts to that "printer" and you'll end up with all the parts as PDF 
files.  This way you can print them all to PDF files at once simply by 
selecting the CutePDF printer and selecting all the parts and the score 
and then clicking print.  This is the faster process.  And once you've 
got the PDF "printer" installed it'll be there for future projects.




--
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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[Finale] Parts to pdf

[Martin Nickless]

Hi can somebody help me with copying my finale parts onto a PDF and putting 
them all in one email I can export scores no problem via PDF but would like to 
get all parts printed I have already formatted them any help would be fantastic 
I am on Windows 10 and finale 25 kind regards Martin

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Finale] Parts

[Christopher Smith]

Hey, you don’t even have to edit the part before you print it (though it is 
highly recommended). Often there are collisions and bad system breaks that need 
correction in raw parts.

As of Finale 2007, we have linked parts, which is to say all the parts reside 
in the same file as the score. The previous method of making parts from a score 
involved “extracting”, which was creating completely different files, each with 
just a single instrument staff in it. Linked parts are automatically created in 
>2007 files from the Setup Wizard with no extra input from you, so if you ever 
open up an older file, you will have to Create the parts.

You can still extract the part if you need to, though I jump through hoops to 
avoid that. Linked parts are SO much better. Typically, I will extract a part 
if something needs to be radically different from the score, or if I ever have 
grace notes in a two-instrument staff (which is a stupid, stupid bug that is 
now TWELVE years old!)

When you hit Print, you have a dialogue box with the score and all the linked 
parts in it, so you select what you want to print. You don’t have to be in the 
part.

Christopher

> On Jan 19, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Lawrence David Eden  wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Fin Mac 25.5.0.259
> 
> What is the difference between:  EDIT Parts   and EXTRACT Parts
> 
> Do I have to EXTRACT parts before printing, or can I PRINT parts directly 
> from EDIT parts?
> 
> Thanks for the lesson,
> 
> Larry Eden
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[Finale] Parts

[Lawrence David Eden]

Greetings,

Fin Mac 25.5.0.259

What is the difference between:  EDIT Parts   and EXTRACT Parts

Do I have to EXTRACT parts before printing, or can I PRINT parts directly from 
EDIT parts?

Thanks for the lesson,

Larry Eden
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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Noel Stoutenburg]

Chuck Israels wrote:

> .. Perhaps there are some conditions in which the Finale page 
> size and the printer set up should not match, but I can't think of why that 
> should be.


Besides the reason Jim Cooper mentioned, of printing booklets, there's 
another reason. If one is wishes to print a conductor's score sized 
larger than the largest size of paper one's printer can handle, the 
score must be tiled, each page of the score divided between two or more 
sheets of paper which are assembled by "analog" methods after printing.

This is not as much of an issue today as it was years ago, when 11 x 17 
printers were, if not unknown, tremendously expensive.

ns
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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Chuck Israels]

Thanks, James.  

I don't think the people at MM are thoughtless, so my first assumption is that 
there are reasons for decisions to implement things in the ways that they do 
them.  This is an example of why there are two places to control printing 
parameters.  Still, it seems that this is not the usual circumstance, so 
perhaps it would be more efficient for most users if the default didn't require 
entering the information in two places.  It's a small thing for me, but it 
might be good to have it automated that way by default and changeable in 
situations like yours.

Thanks again,

Chuck

On Jan 22, 2012, at 1:19 PM, James Cooper wrote:

> In response to the comment "Perhaps there are some conditions in which the
> Finale page size and the printer set up should not match, but I can't think
> of why that should be." -- I routinely do this for booklet printing.  I set
> the page layout to 8.5 x 11 portrait, and the printer to 11x17 landscape
> and print 2-up.  I got the procedure from Finale user manual  (
> http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2011Win/Finale_Left.htm?booklet%20printing#CSHID=1|StartTopic=Content%2FFinale%2FSearch.htm|SkinName=main
> )
> 
> --- James
> 
> 
> James Cooper
> Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter
> www.ModeZ.com
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Chuck Israels  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Robert,
>> 
>> This is an annoyance up with which we have put as long as I can remember,
>> and I don't think there's a way around it.  Raymond answered a different
>> question.  It's the printing that requires the change, not the creation of
>> the different sizes within Finale, and I have long wondered why MM doesn't
>> automate this interruption of the printing process.  Perhaps there are some
>> conditions in which the Finale page size and the printer set up should not
>> match, but I can't think of why that should be.
>> 
>> Personal note:  I know you are going to be losing Susanna and Barry and
>> will be likely to miss them, but I also know that the move will be good for
>> them (and that they will miss their friends in Memphis).
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there anyway to have parts and score have different pages sizes
>> without
>>> having to go in and change the Mac printer page size to match each time
>> you
>>> print one or the other? This is a long-standing issue for me, and I
>> haven't
>>> figured out if it is possible.
>>> ___
>>> Finale mailing list
>>> Finale@shsu.edu
>>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> 
>> Chuck Israels
>> 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
>> Portland, OR 97209-316
>> 
>> land line: (971) 255-1167
>> cell phone: (360) 201-3434
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> James Cooper
> Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter
> www.ModeZ.com
> 
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Chuck Israels
1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
Portland, OR 97209-316

land line: (971) 255-1167
cell phone: (360) 201-3434




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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[James Cooper]

In response to the comment "Perhaps there are some conditions in which the
Finale page size and the printer set up should not match, but I can't think
of why that should be." -- I routinely do this for booklet printing.  I set
the page layout to 8.5 x 11 portrait, and the printer to 11x17 landscape
and print 2-up.  I got the procedure from Finale user manual  (
http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2011Win/Finale_Left.htm?booklet%20printing#CSHID=1|StartTopic=Content%2FFinale%2FSearch.htm|SkinName=main
)

 --- James


James Cooper
Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter
www.ModeZ.com


On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Chuck Israels  wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> This is an annoyance up with which we have put as long as I can remember,
> and I don't think there's a way around it.  Raymond answered a different
> question.  It's the printing that requires the change, not the creation of
> the different sizes within Finale, and I have long wondered why MM doesn't
> automate this interruption of the printing process.  Perhaps there are some
> conditions in which the Finale page size and the printer set up should not
> match, but I can't think of why that should be.
>
> Personal note:  I know you are going to be losing Susanna and Barry and
> will be likely to miss them, but I also know that the move will be good for
> them (and that they will miss their friends in Memphis).
>
> Chuck
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>
> > Is there anyway to have parts and score have different pages sizes
> without
> > having to go in and change the Mac printer page size to match each time
> you
> > print one or the other? This is a long-standing issue for me, and I
> haven't
> > figured out if it is possible.
> > ___
> > Finale mailing list
> > Finale@shsu.edu
> > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
> Chuck Israels
> 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
> Portland, OR 97209-316
>
> land line: (971) 255-1167
> cell phone: (360) 201-3434
>
> 
> 
>
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
>


-- 

James Cooper
Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter
www.ModeZ.com

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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Robert Patterson]

One would think so, but I've never found that option to have any effect on
this issue. Indeed, I've never seen that it does anything. But I leave it
checked anyway.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 11:23 PM, Darcy James Argue
wrote:

> I haven't actually tried this, so I don't know whether it works, but isn't
> this problem theoretically solved by selecting the "Use Finale's Page
> Orientation instead of printer's Page Orientation" option?
>
> Cheers,
>
> - DJA
> -
> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
>
>
>
> On 21 Jan 2012, at 3:01 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:
>
> > Hi Robert,
> >
> > This is an annoyance up with which we have put as long as I can
> remember, and I don't think there's a way around it.  Raymond answered a
> different question.  It's the printing that requires the change, not the
> creation of the different sizes within Finale, and I have long wondered why
> MM doesn't automate this interruption of the printing process.  Perhaps
> there are some conditions in which the Finale page size and the printer set
> up should not match, but I can't think of why that should be.
> >
> > Personal note:  I know you are going to be losing Susanna and Barry and
> will be likely to miss them, but I also know that the move will be good for
> them (and that they will miss their friends in Memphis).
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> > On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
> >
> >> Is there anyway to have parts and score have different pages sizes
> without
> >> having to go in and change the Mac printer page size to match each time
> you
> >> print one or the other? This is a long-standing issue for me, and I
> haven't
> >> figured out if it is possible.
> >> ___
> >> Finale mailing list
> >> Finale@shsu.edu
> >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >
> > Chuck Israels
> > 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
> > Portland, OR 97209-316
> >
> > land line: (971) 255-1167
> > cell phone: (360) 201-3434
> >
> > 
> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > Finale@shsu.edu
> > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Darcy James Argue]

I haven't actually tried this, so I don't know whether it works, but isn't this 
problem theoretically solved by selecting the "Use Finale's Page Orientation 
instead of printer's Page Orientation" option?

Cheers,

- DJA
-
WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org



On 21 Jan 2012, at 3:01 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:

> Hi Robert,
> 
> This is an annoyance up with which we have put as long as I can remember, and 
> I don't think there's a way around it.  Raymond answered a different 
> question.  It's the printing that requires the change, not the creation of 
> the different sizes within Finale, and I have long wondered why MM doesn't 
> automate this interruption of the printing process.  Perhaps there are some 
> conditions in which the Finale page size and the printer set up should not 
> match, but I can't think of why that should be.
> 
> Personal note:  I know you are going to be losing Susanna and Barry and will 
> be likely to miss them, but I also know that the move will be good for them 
> (and that they will miss their friends in Memphis).
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
> 
>> Is there anyway to have parts and score have different pages sizes without
>> having to go in and change the Mac printer page size to match each time you
>> print one or the other? This is a long-standing issue for me, and I haven't
>> figured out if it is possible.
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> Chuck Israels
> 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
> Portland, OR 97209-316
> 
> land line: (971) 255-1167
> cell phone: (360) 201-3434
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Raymond Horton]

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Chuck Israels  wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> This is an annoyance up with which we have put as long as I
> can remember, and I don't think there's a way around it. > Raymond answered a 
> different question.

You guys are SO picky.

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is
because he hears a different question. Let him step to the platform
which he hears, however measured or far away."
(Henry David Thoreau, sort of)

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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Chuck Israels]

Hi Robert,

This is an annoyance up with which we have put as long as I can remember, and I 
don't think there's a way around it.  Raymond answered a different question.  
It's the printing that requires the change, not the creation of the different 
sizes within Finale, and I have long wondered why MM doesn't automate this 
interruption of the printing process.  Perhaps there are some conditions in 
which the Finale page size and the printer set up should not match, but I can't 
think of why that should be.

Personal note:  I know you are going to be losing Susanna and Barry and will be 
likely to miss them, but I also know that the move will be good for them (and 
that they will miss their friends in Memphis).

Chuck


On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:

> Is there anyway to have parts and score have different pages sizes without
> having to go in and change the Mac printer page size to match each time you
> print one or the other? This is a long-standing issue for me, and I haven't
> figured out if it is possible.
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Chuck Israels
1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
Portland, OR 97209-316

land line: (971) 255-1167
cell phone: (360) 201-3434




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Re: [Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Raymond Horton]

In FinWin 2011: Under "Document / Page Format" one can choose
different page formats for score and parts.  You will then have to
"Manage parts / Generate Parts" to see the difference.


Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
Composer, Arranger
VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com



On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Robert Patterson
 wrote:
> Is there anyway to have parts and score have different pages sizes without
> having to go in and change the Mac printer page size to match each time you
> print one or the other? This is a long-standing issue for me, and I haven't
> figured out if it is possible.
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[Finale] Parts have different page size than score (Mac)

[Robert Patterson]

Is there anyway to have parts and score have different pages sizes without
having to go in and change the Mac printer page size to match each time you
print one or the other? This is a long-standing issue for me, and I haven't
figured out if it is possible.
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Re: [Finale] PARTS Managing

[VincentL10]

Kim,

Have you tried deleting the existing parts from the list, then create a new 
set of parts?





Vince Leonard
www.finalebook.com
www.sibeliusbook.com



**
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Finance.
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[Finale] PARTS Managing

[Kim Richmond]

Can someone solve this problem for me?
	I have a score that consists of Vocal, Piano, Bass and Drums. I add  
the staves (above those) for big band. When I was through inputting  
all the entries, I go to Manage Parts, then Generate Parts. All parts  
are generated except for bass and drums. They are found, however, in  
a folder in the Available Instruments list in the Part Definition.  
How can I make these separate parts (they are now contained within  
the piano part). If I select the Piano part on the left, Piano (and  
it's folder) do not show up on the right.

Any ideas? I'm sure there's a simple way to do this.
All the best,
KIM R
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[shirling & neueweise]

thanks to all for the comments.

At 17:02 +0100 1/28/07, Daniel Wolf wrote:
I've lived in Germany since 1989. I can't imagine that there is a 
law regulating the format of sheet music but there may be either a 
state regulation for workplaces or an agreement in the individual 
orchestra's employment contract regarding the legibility of reading 
materials, i,e, it would be hazardous to the eyes to force an 
employee to read materials that are too small.


this is in fact possible.

If the format of the materials has been specified in the local 
contract, then the composer would certainly have cause against the 
orchestra for not having informed him or her about the local 
requirements at the time of the commission.


nothing was mentioned, and as i said, i was in contact with both the 
festival director who programmed the work and the orchestral score 
archivist (notenarchiv) much before the stage of part extraction, and 
neither made any comment related to format.


i have spoken with one musician i know in the orchestra, who is quite 
professional, and when pressed for the "too small" comment said the 
size was fine, there could have been more space between the systems, 
in certain sections it was sometimes difficult to find oneself on the 
page because of the nature of the notation in this work - the comment 
is in fact valid to a point, some pages were fairly dense, but for 
really valid page turn reasons; my page turns are typically very 
good, i have pressed many musicians on this point...


--

shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[John Howell]

At 1:48 PM -0500 1/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

You all do know that in the USA there are union specifications for the size
of parts & amount of staves for the major orchestras.


No, I don't think we do know that; at least I don't.  Could you 
provide specifics?  There are MOLA guidelines, of course, but that 
has nothing to do with the union.



 And even if you are a freelance composer with a small job for a symphony
performer, you better have those parts in the same whatever.


The exception appears to be the Nashville arrangers who provide 
orchestrations for pop acts who appear with orchestras, and barely 
know how to use Finale right out of the box.  Some truly dreadful 
stuff  Both Mosaic and Sibelius have good looking defaults. 
Finale never has had.


John


--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Carl Dershem]

Lora Crighton wrote:


--- Daniel Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


In fact, 
I've often been surprised at how tolerant musicians
are of parts with 
bad page turns etc..





We're just resigned to it - so much of the music I buy
has really evil page turns that I don't even comment
on it anymore. 


And isn't that one of the advantages of this forum?  At least we (some 
of whom have the means to make an impact, some of whom don't) can agree 
among ourselves that when WE do scores and pats, that we'll pay 
attention to such things, and discuss better ways of doing so.  Sure - 
we all get parts to read occasionally that are (at best) horrendous - 
but when we do parts (and scores) we do so without those things, and, if 
lucky, get calls from the people who did the earlier parts, and can make 
things better for everyone.


cd
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/#
http://members.cox.net/dershem

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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Lora Crighton]

--- Daniel Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  In fact, 
> I've often been surprised at how tolerant musicians
> are of parts with 
> bad page turns etc..
> 

We're just resigned to it - so much of the music I buy
has really evil page turns that I don't even comment
on it anymore. 

-- 
Io la Musica son, ch'ai dolci accenti
So far tranquillo ogni turbato core,
Et or di nobil ira et or d'amore
Poss'infiammar le più gelate menti.
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[VivianAR]

You all do know that in the USA there are union specifications for the size 
of parts & amount of staves for the major orchestras.
 
And even if you are a freelance composer with a small job for a symphony 
performer, you better have those parts in the same whatever.

Vivian

Vivian Adelberg Rudow

Up coming performance in honor of the 150th anniversary of the Peabody 
Conservatoy of Music:
THE SKY SPEAKS, Clouds, Peabody Singers Chorus, Lindsay Thompson, mezzo 
soprano, Lauren Latessa, cello, Adam Rosenblatt & Candy Chiu, percussion and 
Stefan 
Petrov, piano, Edward Polochick, conductor, Peabody Conservatory of Music, 
Thursday, March 29, 2007, 7:30PM, Griswold Hall

Recent performance:
CALL FOR PEACE, flute and tape, performance An Die Musik, Baltimore Composers 
Forum, December 1, 2006, 8:00PM, Sara Nichols, flute

20th ASCAP Plus Award



www.vivianadelbergrudow.com

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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Daniel Wolf]

I've lived in Germany since 1989. I can't imagine that there is a law 
regulating the format of sheet music but there may be either a state 
regulation for workplaces or an agreement in the individual orchestra's 
employment contract regarding the legibility of reading materials, i,e, 
it would be hazardous to the eyes to force an employee to read materials 
that are too small. If the format of the materials has been specified in 
the local contract, then the composer would certainly have cause against 
the orchestra for not having informed him or her about the local 
requirements at the time of the commission.


I have seen musicians -- in Europe and in the US -- angrily wave the 
parts about several times. But it usually has more to do with  not 
wanting to play the piece rather than the layout of the parts. In fact, 
I've often been surprised at how tolerant musicians are of parts with 
bad page turns etc..



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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 28.01.2007 shirling & neueweise wrote:

As to whether it's a "law" or not, I find it hard to believe that the German 
government would have wasted time enacting any law governing the size and other 
specifications of orchestra music.


hmmm, you've never spent time in germany, have you?


Now, hang on, we might have some crazy laws, but I can assure you, this 
is not one of them.


What this undoubtedly is about, is some Union (Orchestervereinigung) 
thing. I know for a fact that the union in Switzerland does have 
regulations on what size, colour etc the music in orchestras has to 
have. So I assume this is similar in Germany.


Just to add: Musician's unions in Germany are very weak entities 
compared to eg America. We freelancers don't even have one. I always 
found the musician's unions in America a wonderful thing, but a little 
over the top. They walked into a recording I was doing in Canada, and 
became very unfriendly, wasting our precious recording time, because 
they said the rates were too low. Of course, no orchestra in the world 
will get what they demand, so it's not a suprise there is hardly any 
recordings going on in Canada. Eventually a deal was cut, the rates 
stayed the same, but everyone had a different status on paper. No 
differences otherwise, but for some reason the union was happier.


What I think happened in your case was some fight between union members 
over some political thing, ans this will result in people finding the 
most absurd regulations somewhere and insisting they will be enforced.


There was a famous case in Britain a few years ago, with a lot of famous 
musicians involved. It was exactly the same kind of thing. It really has 
nothing to do with Germany (except that these state orchestras have such 
a secure position that the musicians feel very powerful, I guess.


Johannes
--
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http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] Parts and long rest notation

[Robert Patterson]

Kim Patrick Clow wrote:


 What do I need to
do to get the file to show the modification correctly?



You need to re-create the multimeasure rest, at least on that region. 
Select the 5 bars, select the Measure tool, right click, and select 
Create Multimeasure rest from the context menu.


--
Robert Patterson

http://RobertGPatterson.com
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Robert Patterson]

shirling & neueweise wrote:

i long ago came to the conclusion that an orchestra is not a musical 
body, but a political one.




Every group of humans larger than one is a political body. Orchestras 
are certainly no exception. Professional orchestras are beyond 
political: each one is a tribe. Anyone not in the orchestra is an utter 
outsider. It is important to remember this when visiting one in the 
capacity of composer.


John Howell wrote:
> So much for MOLA and their aging orchestra members (like me!)
> with poor eyesight!!
>

The MOLA guidelines are generally commendable, except for a couple of 
points. The last time I tried it, I believe I discovered 8.5 mm staves 
end up requiring Finale staff sizes to be around 100%. This is about the 
size of staves in childrens' piano primers. I have heard that one of the 
prime movers behind the guidelines was a long-time librarian of the 
Philadelphia Orchestra, who seems to have been allowed to incorporate 
some pet peeves into the guidelines. I have old eyes, and I play in a 
professional orchestra, and I have not seen any parts so ridiculously 
large. Finale 85% closely matches the B&H look that the MOLA guidelines 
seem (otherwise) to prefer. With Petrucci font, I also enlarged the 
notehead font size to 26, but that is overkill for Maestro.


The last time I looked at the guidelines, they contained a blatant math 
error. The guidelines specified a minimum image area of 8.75x11.75 on a 
sheet of 9.5x12.5. The guidelines stated one should leave a 3/4 inch 
margin all around. However, to leave a 3/4 inch margin all around on 
9.5x12.5, the printed image would have to be 8"x11". I generally leave a 
1-inch margin all around on 10x13 pages, producing a printed image that 
is 8x11.


--
Robert Patterson

http://RobertGPatterson.com
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[dhbailey]

shirling & neueweise wrote:


In the future, if you will be dealing with any orchestras in Germany, 
ask them what size paper and what size staves and margins and 
inter-staff space they want, and keep the printed response with you at 
all times.


yeah, it just pisses me off that they are so easy to throw it at you but 
don't mention it up front.  it's just f***ing dirty pool.


These horror stories that people have shared in response to this post 
are truly apalling.  Makes me glad I don't have to deal with 
orchestras at that level of expertise and snobbery.


i long ago came to the conclusion that an orchestra is not a musical 
body, but a political one.


As to whether it's a "law" or not, I find it hard to believe that the 
German government would have wasted time enacting any law governing 
the size and other specifications of orchestra music.


hmmm, you've never spent time in germany, have you?




Actually, I lived there for 3 years with my family when I was 6 to 9, so 
I was totally oblivious to any laws.  :-)


But if it's a very real possibility, then it would certainly make sense 
for you to try to contact someone who is friendly and who lives in 
Germany so they can look up the law for you.


I agree with your remark on orchestras being political bodies and not 
musical ones.  Not all orchestras, but the more I hear about the 
professional orchestra world, it seems that the higher up the orchestral 
food chain the are, the more this is true.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Christopher Smith]

On Jan 28, 2007, at 7:21 AM, dhbailey wrote:


shirling & neueweise wrote:
[snip]

i can't do anything to avoid things like the violist who stuck a  
white cloth on the tip of his bow and waved it above his head like  
a flag during the single run-through dress rehearsal, but i want  
to try and avoid having materials i spent time and money on being  
trashed in the future, if i can.

any suggestions?

[snip]

As to whether it's a "law" or not, I find it hard to believe that  
the German government would have wasted time enacting any law  
governing the size and other specifications of orchestra music.  On  
the other hand, knowing what silly things get added into bills at  
the 11th hour, with the bills running to several thousand printed  
pages and no time for legislators to have read the entire bill  
before voting, the possibility is very real that there actually is  
such a law that was passed as part of a defense budget or school- 
reform law.



Here in Quebec we have a "Loi sur le statut de l'artiste" (Law  
governing the status of artists) which states that the Guilde des  
Musiciens du Québec (AFM local 406) negotiates with all producers on  
behalf of all musicians, regardless of whether they are union members  
or not. This effectively writes into provincial law any negotiated  
benefit like working hours, breaks, pay scales, dress code, and yes,  
probably part sizes. The Montreal Symphony has negotiated over the  
years things like chair design for the cellists, the size of  
plexiglas head shields for the woodwinds seated in front of trumpets,  
and section seating. A composer requesting a different seating for  
his piece opens a huge can of worms at the MSO.


Now whether that has ever been enforced strictly is a matter for  
considerable discussion, but you can bet that if ever an orchestra  
wanted to refuse to play a piece, they would find any kind of  
justification they could wrangle.


I am very sorry to hear that you were tossed into the middle of what  
was obviously a feud, but you must know that it wasn't your fault. I  
have seen your work, and the one thing that would be IMPOSSIBLE to  
say about your engraving is that it wasn't readable.


I commiserate on your situation.

Christopher
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[shirling & neueweise]

In the future, if you will be dealing with any orchestras in 
Germany, ask them what size paper and what size staves and margins 
and inter-staff space they want, and keep the printed response with 
you at all times.


yeah, it just pisses me off that they are so easy to throw it at you 
but don't mention it up front.  it's just f***ing dirty pool.


These horror stories that people have shared in response to this 
post are truly apalling.  Makes me glad I don't have to deal with 
orchestras at that level of expertise and snobbery.


i long ago came to the conclusion that an orchestra is not a musical 
body, but a political one.


As to whether it's a "law" or not, I find it hard to believe that 
the German government would have wasted time enacting any law 
governing the size and other specifications of orchestra music.


hmmm, you've never spent time in germany, have you?

--

shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[dhbailey]

shirling & neueweise wrote:
[snip]

i can't do anything to avoid things like the violist who stuck a white 
cloth on the tip of his bow and waved it above his head like a flag 
during the single run-through dress rehearsal, but i want to try and 
avoid having materials i spent time and money on being trashed in the 
future, if i can.


any suggestions?


[snip]

In the future, if you will be dealing with any orchestras in Germany, 
ask them what size paper and what size staves and margins and 
inter-staff space they want, and keep the printed response with you at 
all times.  If this situation arises again, be sure the composer also 
has a printed copy of the response with him/her so that if there are 
complaints, he/she can pull out the printed response and remind them 
that your parts/score match their desired specifications.


These horror stories that people have shared in response to this post 
are truly apalling.  Makes me glad I don't have to deal with orchestras 
at that level of expertise and snobbery.


As to whether it's a "law" or not, I find it hard to believe that the 
German government would have wasted time enacting any law governing the 
size and other specifications of orchestra music.  On the other hand, 
knowing what silly things get added into bills at the 11th hour, with 
the bills running to several thousand printed pages and no time for 
legislators to have read the entire bill before voting, the possibility 
is very real that there actually is such a law that was passed as part 
of a defense budget or school-reform law.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Parts and long rest notation

[shirling & neueweise]

In the drop down menu associated with the measure item in the menu 
bar, select "multi-measure rests", and in the sub-menu select 
"break".


you can also select both the existing MM rest and the new empty 
measure and "create" and avoid this step.


--

shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com
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Re: [Finale] Parts and long rest notation

[Noel Stoutenburg]

Kim Patrick Clow wrote:

In a Finale 2005 file, I had to make a change to the score AFTER I
extracted the parts The score was no trouble, but after I updated the
part, adding an extra measure with a rest, so I'm not sure why the
empty measure after the big 4 didn't get absorbed ? What do I need to
do to get the file to show the modification correctly? 
I don't presently have an active 2k5 installation, so I'm basing this 
answer on 2k4.  In the part, select the measure tool, then highlight the 
measure containing the multi-measure rest.  In the drop down menu 
associated with the measure item in the menu bar, select "multi-measure 
rests", and in the sub-menu select "break".  Then, highlight the five 
measures you want in the rest, and in the same sub-menu, select 
"create". "Edit" in that same menu does not (as one perhaps might argue 
that it should) permit editing the measures included in an already 
created MM rest.


ns
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Aaron Rabushka]

Oh yes--I had an execrable treatment from a no-longer-extant Kansas City
Orchestra--I paid them close to $4000 for a performance and in return I was
barred from rehearsals and had my work cut to shreds. 30 minutes before
dress rehersal I got a lecture from the conductor as to how I couldn't
insist they play what I wrote without considering their feelings on the
matter. Interesting how the Czech orchestra that recorded the piece the
preceding year had no techincal or personal integrity problems with the
piece.

Aaron J. Rabushka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Stiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] parts - german laws


>
> On Jan 27, 2007, at 11:14 PM, shirling & neueweise wrote:
>
> >
> > hi, recently a german orchestra refused to use the parts that i had
> > prepared for them, claiming they didn't meet the laws on minimum size.
> >  it must be said that they were looking for pretty much any excuse not
> > to play the piece in fact, and they found one in this law! the
> > festival director worked it out in the end , and apparently the very
> > elegant and well-bound cream-coloured 100g parts i used went in the
> > trash or something and were replaced with photocopies.
> >
> > ...
> > i can't do anything to avoid things like the violist who stuck a white
> > cloth on the tip of his bow and waved it above his head like a flag
> > during the single run-through dress rehearsal, but i want to try and
> > avoid having materials i spent time and money on being trashed in the
> > future, if i can.
> >
> > any suggestions?
> >
>
> This is just the way orchestras treat composers. It is shameful, but
> there is little to do about it except to secure full payment in
> advance.
>
> John Cage once described the New York Philharmonic as "a bunch of
> gangsters without shame," apparently w. considerable justification--so
> this sort of thing isn't restricted to Germany.
>
> I know, too, that the Philadelphia Orchestra has very strict rules
> about the dimensions, paper, margins, you name it, of composers'
> extracted parts--rules they wouldn't dare try to enforce against Kalmus
> or Luck's.
>
> As far as Germany goes, I recently sent a set of parts there (folded
> double sheets, 11" X 17", quarter-inch margins, staple bound) for use
> by the Rheinland-Pfalz orchestra in a recording project, and got no
> complaints whatsoever--probably because a) the recording company was
> footing the bill and b) the composer was a dead white male.
>
> Andrew Stiller
> Kallisti Music Press
> http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
>
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[John Howell]

At 5:14 AM +0100 1/28/07, shirling & neueweise wrote:
hi, recently a german orchestra refused to use 
the parts that i had prepared for them, claiming 
they didn't meet the laws on minimum size.  it 
must be said that they were looking for pretty 
much any excuse not to play the piece in fact, 
and they found one in this law! the festival 
director worked it out in the end , and 
apparently the very elegant and well-bound 
cream-coloured 100g parts i used went in the 
trash or something and were replaced with 
photocopies.  [snip]


any suggestions?


Law?  That would be interesting to hear more 
about.  But MOLA (Major Orchestra Librarians 
Association, I think) has formulated and posted 
somewhere on the internet rather strict 
guidelines, which were recently discussed to 
death on OrchestraList with composers on one 
side, librarians on the other, and conductors and 
players sort of milling around.


MOLA doesn't want ANYTHING on 8 1/2" x 11", 11" x 
17", or the European equivalents.  They want 
paper the size of the old Breitkopf and other 
German editions (tradition!), staves 8.5 mm high 
for string parts and 8 mm for wind parts (further 
comment follows), and good quality, heavy weight, 
opaque paper (with which I agree completely).  In 
other words, parts from e.g. Hal Leonard would be 
instantly rejected, proving that even if you CAN 
shrink staff size easily in Finale to fit more on 
a page, you SHOULDN'T!


I just experimented by printing some parts for my 
players using an 8.5 mm staff size in one 
version, with the music spaced well out, and 7.5 
mm in a second version, with more music on each 
line.  (This was violin and viol parts to the 
Rameau "Piéces de Clavecin en Concerts.")  They 
instantly rejected the 8.5 mm parts and much 
preferred the 7.5 mm parts.  So much for MOLA and 
their aging orchestra members (like me!) with 
poor eyesight!!


John


--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
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Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Andrew Stiller]

On Jan 27, 2007, at 11:14 PM, shirling & neueweise wrote:



hi, recently a german orchestra refused to use the parts that i had 
prepared for them, claiming they didn't meet the laws on minimum size. 
 it must be said that they were looking for pretty much any excuse not 
to play the piece in fact, and they found one in this law! the 
festival director worked it out in the end , and apparently the very 
elegant and well-bound cream-coloured 100g parts i used went in the 
trash or something and were replaced with photocopies.


...
i can't do anything to avoid things like the violist who stuck a white 
cloth on the tip of his bow and waved it above his head like a flag 
during the single run-through dress rehearsal, but i want to try and 
avoid having materials i spent time and money on being trashed in the 
future, if i can.


any suggestions?



This is just the way orchestras treat composers. It is shameful, but 
there is little to do about it except to secure full payment in 
advance.


John Cage once described the New York Philharmonic as "a bunch of 
gangsters without shame," apparently w. considerable justification--so 
this sort of thing isn't restricted to Germany.


I know, too, that the Philadelphia Orchestra has very strict rules 
about the dimensions, paper, margins, you name it, of composers' 
extracted parts--rules they wouldn't dare try to enforce against Kalmus 
or Luck's.


As far as Germany goes, I recently sent a set of parts there (folded 
double sheets, 11" X 17", quarter-inch margins, staple bound) for use 
by the Rheinland-Pfalz orchestra in a recording project, and got no 
complaints whatsoever--probably because a) the recording company was 
footing the bill and b) the composer was a dead white male.


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Aaron Rabushka]

Hmm...I thought I'd heard all the cock 'n' bull stories, but this is a new
one. The recordings I produced were done in Moravia, and they never said
anything about minimal size for parts.

Aaron J. Rabushka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message - 
From: "shirling & neueweise" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:14 PM
Subject: [Finale] parts - german laws


>
> hi, recently a german orchestra refused to use the parts that i had
> prepared for them, claiming they didn't meet the laws on minimum
> size.  it must be said that they were looking for pretty much any
> excuse not to play the piece in fact, and they found one in this law!
> the festival director worked it out in the end , and apparently the
> very elegant and well-bound cream-coloured 100g parts i used went in
> the trash or something and were replaced with photocopies.
>
> i have worked a number of times with other orchestras in germany and
> have never heard of this, and have never had any complaints about my
> parts being too small.  also, i was in contact with this orchestra
> early on - before i started extracting the parts - to discuss the
> timeframe and was not informed of this law (which in my opinion they
> should have done, if they are ready to use it).   i was not contacted
> after dropping off the parts either, i found out about this after the
> dress rehearsal from the composer.   the orchestra has still not
> mentioned a thing to me, although i was the contact for the score and
> parts.
>
> i can't do anything to avoid things like the violist who stuck a
> white cloth on the tip of his bow and waved it above his head like a
> flag during the single run-through dress rehearsal, but i want to try
> and avoid having materials i spent time and money on being trashed in
> the future, if i can.
>
> any suggestions?
>
> was kann man eigentlich damit (dagegen!) tun?!
>
> stehen diese regeln irgendwo offentlich?
>
> -- 
>
> shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com
> ___
> Finale mailing list
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>

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Re: [Finale] parts - german laws

[Chuck Israels]

This sounds entirely like you got caught in local politics.  I have  
seen this kind of thing (not exactly - but similar attitude) when  
working at the WDR in Koln.


I spent a week there - working with Bill Dobbins, who was then the  
leader of that band.  Bill is a consummate musician and an  
intelligent, thoughtful and diplomatically astute man.  He had his  
hands full there, and I was so overwhelmed with the "vibe" in the  
studio that I think I said less and did less to be involved than I  
have ever done on any project for which I've written the music.


It's not Germany though, because I have had wonderful and welcoming  
experiences elsewhere - with the NDR Philharmonic in Hannover, for  
example.


Just thought I'd commiserate on this though.

Chuck


On Jan 27, 2007, at 8:14 PM, shirling & neueweise wrote:



hi, recently a german orchestra refused to use the parts that i had  
prepared for them, claiming they didn't meet the laws on minimum  
size.  it must be said that they were looking for pretty much any  
excuse not to play the piece in fact, and they found one in this  
law! the festival director worked it out in the end , and  
apparently the very elegant and well-bound cream-coloured 100g  
parts i used went in the trash or something and were replaced with  
photocopies.


i have worked a number of times with other orchestras in germany  
and have never heard of this, and have never had any complaints  
about my parts being too small.  also, i was in contact with this  
orchestra early on - before i started extracting the parts - to  
discuss the timeframe and was not informed of this law (which in my  
opinion they should have done, if they are ready to use it).   i  
was not contacted after dropping off the parts either, i found out  
about this after the dress rehearsal from the composer.   the  
orchestra has still not mentioned a thing to me, although i was the  
contact for the score and parts.


i can't do anything to avoid things like the violist who stuck a  
white cloth on the tip of his bow and waved it above his head like  
a flag during the single run-through dress rehearsal, but i want to  
try and avoid having materials i spent time and money on being  
trashed in the future, if i can.


any suggestions?

was kann man eigentlich damit (dagegen!) tun?!

stehen diese regeln irgendwo offentlich?

--

shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com
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Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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[Finale] Parts and long rest notation

[Kim Patrick Clow]

Hi everyone:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/graupner/parts-rest.jpg

In a Finale 2005 file, I had to make a change to the score AFTER I
extracted the parts The score was no trouble, but after I updated the
part, adding an extra measure with a rest, so I'm not sure why the
empty measure after the big 4 didn't get absorbed ? What do I need to
do to get the file to show the modification correctly?

Thanks a lot!
Kim
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[Finale] parts - german laws

[shirling & neueweise]

hi, recently a german orchestra refused to use the parts that i had 
prepared for them, claiming they didn't meet the laws on minimum 
size.  it must be said that they were looking for pretty much any 
excuse not to play the piece in fact, and they found one in this law! 
the festival director worked it out in the end , and apparently the 
very elegant and well-bound cream-coloured 100g parts i used went in 
the trash or something and were replaced with photocopies.


i have worked a number of times with other orchestras in germany and 
have never heard of this, and have never had any complaints about my 
parts being too small.  also, i was in contact with this orchestra 
early on - before i started extracting the parts - to discuss the 
timeframe and was not informed of this law (which in my opinion they 
should have done, if they are ready to use it).   i was not contacted 
after dropping off the parts either, i found out about this after the 
dress rehearsal from the composer.   the orchestra has still not 
mentioned a thing to me, although i was the contact for the score and 
parts.


i can't do anything to avoid things like the violist who stuck a 
white cloth on the tip of his bow and waved it above his head like a 
flag during the single run-through dress rehearsal, but i want to try 
and avoid having materials i spent time and money on being trashed in 
the future, if i can.


any suggestions?

was kann man eigentlich damit (dagegen!) tun?!

stehen diese regeln irgendwo offentlich?

--

shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com
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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[dhbailey]

Johannes Gebauer wrote:

On 08.11.2006 Aaron Sherber wrote:
A measure-attached block, yes. But as I said above, I'm not sure how 
useful this would be for page-attached blocks.


Personally I would hope that measure attached text blocks will be 
considerably improved. Not only should there be staff-list support, 
there should also be page placement options. That way measure attached 
text blocks would become _the_ tool for movement titles and footnotes, 
while page attached text blocks would be used only for title pages and 
recurring text like page numbers and copyrights.


Johannes



I heartily agree with Johannes on this one.  It would certainly make 
life so much easier when one part has, for example, movement 2 starting 
on a particular page and another instrument has it starting on a 
different page.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 08.11.2006 Aaron Sherber wrote:

A measure-attached block, yes. But as I said above, I'm not sure how useful 
this would be for page-attached blocks.


Personally I would hope that measure attached text blocks will be 
considerably improved. Not only should there be staff-list support, 
there should also be page placement options. That way measure attached 
text blocks would become _the_ tool for movement titles and footnotes, 
while page attached text blocks would be used only for title pages and 
recurring text like page numbers and copyrights.


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Nov 2006 at 11:50, Aaron Sherber wrote:

> If you implement 'Show in This Part Only' 
> as a menu item with a checkmark, then Finale needs to keep track not
> just of the show/hide state for that particular part, but the
> show/hide state for *every* part at once.

Doesn't Finale already have a very usable UI paradigm for this, in 
the staff expression dialog where you choose which parts/score for a 
staff expression to show up in? Seems to me, that's a pretty easy UI, 
and ought to be easily extensible.

And it makes one wonder if the future of text blocks and staff 
expressions might not merge at some point (what *is* the 
justification for keeping them separate?).

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[Aaron Sherber]

At 11:26 AM 11/8/2006, dhbailey wrote:
>I realized that about the data existing, so I had thought that the "Show
>in This Part Only" option would do exactly as you say in your final
>paragraph.

Okay, but your post just called it a 'This Part Only' option. I 
wanted to be clear that this has to mean Show, not Create.


>Of course, the switching of the display wouldn't occur, but the end
>result would be the same -- an automated process to eliminate our need
>to do those five steps "manually."

Right. And I'm not saying that wouldn't be useful, but you are 
talking about one specific case of a generic set of cases. The 
generic case is 'show item in *some* parts only'. I'm not sure how 
much programming time its worth to implement 'show in one part only' 
when it doesn't help me much at all if I have an item I want to show 
in two parts. Of course, if I want the same text box in two parts, 
it's probably going to be in different positions on the page, if not 
on different pages completely, so there's more going on here.


>I don't see how that would be so very difficult -- it simply switches
>whatever attributes are switched for that text block so that it only
>shows in the Flute part, for instance.

But it's a question of UI. If you implement 'Show in This Part Only' 
as a menu item with a checkmark, then Finale needs to keep track not 
just of the show/hide state for that particular part, but the 
show/hide state for *every* part at once. For example, let's say I 
check that item in the flute part. Then I go to the oboe part, where 
the item is hidden, and I check 'Show'. Now I go back to the flute 
part and right-click on the item. Finale knows that the item is 
visible in the flute part, but in order to determine whether 'Show' 
or 'Show in This Part Only' is checked when it draws the menu, it 
needs to cycle through all the other parts to see whether the item is 
visible in those parts. I'm not saying this is particularly 
difficult, but it's more complicated than just adding the menu item.


(You could also implement 'Show in This Part Only' as a command menu 
item with no checkmark, like Delete. That would avoid the above 
problem, although there might be others.)


>And once that is automated, it should be a simple step (leap?) to
>allowing the use of staff lists just as we can do with expressions.  so
>it would be possible to define a text block to show in all the woodwind
>parts, once we had defined such a staff list.

A measure-attached block, yes. But as I said above, I'm not sure how 
useful this would be for page-attached blocks.


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[dhbailey]

Aaron Sherber wrote:

At 10:20 AM 11/8/2006, dhbailey wrote:
 >Here's hoping that MakeMusic comes up with a right-click dialog for text
 >blocks which includes a "This Part Only" option (among others)!

I think there are two issues here.

First, it's important to realize that the basic Fin2007 paradigm does 
not let you affect the *existence* of an item in score or parts -- you 
can only affect the *display* of an item (or the position). If you put 
(for example) a text block on p.1 in a part, what you've done is define 
a text block which appears on any p.1 in that Finale file -- in other 
words, in the score and all parts. You cannot delete the item from some 
parts and leave it in others, because the item is tied only to the 
*page*, not to the page within a part. But you can tell Finale to *hide* 
the item in certain parts and show it in others.


Keep in mind that a linked part itself is nothing more than a 
specialized view of the data in the score. When I create a flute part, 
I'm telling Finale to hide everything in the score that's not in that 
system. This, in fact, is the whole essence of a linked part. The note 
in the flute part is exactly the same item as the note in the score, 
which is why changing one changes the other. Finale is able to store 
different positioning options for an item in a part as opposed to a 
score, and different hide/show states, but it is not able to have an 
item exist in one place and not the other.


The point of all of this is that there will never be a 'Create in This 
Part Only' option, because that's not how Finale stores its data.


The second issue is one of UI. A 'Show in This Part Only' option I think 
is certainly possible -- it's essentially shorthand for 'hide in the 
score, then show in the part'. But it takes some thought to figure out 
how this interacts with other menu options, and also to keep menus from 
getting too cluttered. I'm not sure right now how useful this particular 
option would be -- I haven't thought about it much -- but I just want to 
point out that adding useful and technically possible options is not 
always as simple as just doing it.





I realized that about the data existing, so I had thought that the "Show 
in This Part Only" option would do exactly as you say in your final 
paragraph.


But just as plug-ins do very little more than we can all do by hand, 
tediously, so, too, such an option would simply automate the following 
steps:


1) enter the text block
2) switch to score view
3) click "Hide"
4) switch to Flute view
5) click "Show"

Of course, the switching of the display wouldn't occur, but the end 
result would be the same -- an automated process to eliminate our need 
to do those five steps "manually."  It would set whatever switches are 
necessary in the data which is stored for each part, behind the scenes.


I don't see how that would be so very difficult -- it simply switches 
whatever attributes are switched for that text block so that it only 
shows in the Flute part, for instance.


And once that is automated, it should be a simple step (leap?) to 
allowing the use of staff lists just as we can do with expressions.  so 
it would be possible to define a text block to show in all the woodwind 
parts, once we had defined such a staff list.



--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[Aaron Sherber]

At 10:20 AM 11/8/2006, dhbailey wrote:
>Here's hoping that MakeMusic comes up with a right-click dialog for text
>blocks which includes a "This Part Only" option (among others)!

I think there are two issues here.

First, it's important to realize that the basic Fin2007 paradigm does 
not let you affect the *existence* of an item in score or parts -- 
you can only affect the *display* of an item (or the position). If 
you put (for example) a text block on p.1 in a part, what you've done 
is define a text block which appears on any p.1 in that Finale file 
-- in other words, in the score and all parts. You cannot delete the 
item from some parts and leave it in others, because the item is tied 
only to the *page*, not to the page within a part. But you can tell 
Finale to *hide* the item in certain parts and show it in others.


Keep in mind that a linked part itself is nothing more than a 
specialized view of the data in the score. When I create a flute 
part, I'm telling Finale to hide everything in the score that's not 
in that system. This, in fact, is the whole essence of a linked part. 
The note in the flute part is exactly the same item as the note in 
the score, which is why changing one changes the other. Finale is 
able to store different positioning options for an item in a part as 
opposed to a score, and different hide/show states, but it is not 
able to have an item exist in one place and not the other.


The point of all of this is that there will never be a 'Create in 
This Part Only' option, because that's not how Finale stores its data.


The second issue is one of UI. A 'Show in This Part Only' option I 
think is certainly possible -- it's essentially shorthand for 'hide 
in the score, then show in the part'. But it takes some thought to 
figure out how this interacts with other menu options, and also to 
keep menus from getting too cluttered. I'm not sure right now how 
useful this particular option would be -- I haven't thought about it 
much -- but I just want to point out that adding useful and 
technically possible options is not always as simple as just doing it.


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[dhbailey]

Aaron Sherber wrote:

At 06:50 AM 11/8/2006, dhbailey wrote:
 >Entering page text blocks (as opposed to measure-attached text-blocks)
 >affects only the part they're on, not the whole score and other parts.

This isn't true, at least not for me. Page-attached blocks show up in 
all parts and the score; measure-attached blocks show up in the score 
and any parts containing the measure to which they're attached.




I could swear I had done such a thing, but I'm afraid Aaron's correct, 
and gave the proper method to do such a thing.


Here's hoping that MakeMusic comes up with a right-click dialog for text 
blocks which includes a "This Part Only" option (among others)!


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[Aaron Sherber]

At 06:50 AM 11/8/2006, dhbailey wrote:
>Entering page text blocks (as opposed to measure-attached text-blocks)
>affects only the part they're on, not the whole score and other parts.

This isn't true, at least not for me. Page-attached blocks show up in 
all parts and the score; measure-attached blocks show up in the score 
and any parts containing the measure to which they're attached.


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[Aaron Sherber]

At 01:09 AM 11/8/2006, Matthew Hindson fastmail acct wrote:
>* When going to the Manage Parts box, and selecting New Part, is there
>any way to have the part name automatically set to the instrument name?
>  It was very annoying to have to retype them in for each one.

If what you want to do is create a part for each staff or group in 
the score, sort of like you would if you were extracting parts, then 
what you want to do is hit the 'Generate Parts' button, not 'New 
Part'. Generate Parts will auto-create the 'default' parts and will 
name them appropriately.


>* I had problems with using the * key in Speedy to show/hide accidentals
>- sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.  On one occasion if I
>pressed P it put the ( ) and the accidental, but nothing without.

I believe this is a known bug.

>* Jeez it's annoying not being able to use plugins in parts.  For things
>like harp pedalling or cautionary accidentals that you don't want in the
>score, it is very annoying.

Remember that for any plugin with a non-modal dialog box (that is, a 
plugin which you can leave open on screen while you do other things), 
you can open the plugin while in score view, then switch to part view 
and do what you want.


>* Is there any way to enter a text block (not a text expression) to
>appear just in one part?

Yes, but it's a little clunky. Enter the text block in the part. Then 
go to the score, right-click on the block and choose Hide; this hides 
the text block in the score and all parts. Then go back to the part, 
right-click, and choose Show; this makes the block visible in just 
that one part.


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[dhbailey]

Matthew Hindson fastmail acct wrote:
[snip]
* I tried also extracting a part to a separate file (the 'old fashioned' 
way) and the strange thing that happened there was that the last two 
bars totally disappeared.  Then I added to new bars at the end to 
reenter the music manually - and it added the missing two bars!


* Is there any way to enter a text block (not a text expression) to 
appear just in one part?  I entered it off the page and dragged it in to 
the part in which it was needed, but surely there must be a better way.


It's well worth checking Finale 2007 parts very closely I think.



The missing two bars may have simply needed updating for the original 
final 2 bars to show up.  I haven't run into this problem so far.


Entering page text blocks (as opposed to measure-attached text-blocks) 
affects only the part they're on, not the whole score and other parts.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Finale] Parts function Finale 2007 (OS X)

[Matthew Hindson fastmail acct]

Dear list members,

I finally got around to doing parts for a piece in Finale 2007 today 
using the dynamic parts feature.


There were a few bugs/annoyances and wondered if anyone else had found 
the same, or if they were unique to me:


* When going to the Manage Parts box, and selecting New Part, is there 
any way to have the part name automatically set to the instrument name? 
 It was very annoying to have to retype them in for each one.


* I had problems with using the * key in Speedy to show/hide accidentals 
- sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.  On one occasion if I 
pressed P it put the ( ) and the accidental, but nothing without.


* I found that the Measure Tool affects more than one measure if certain 
settings are applied, and even worse, affects measures that haven't even 
been selected.  For example:



was the initial setup.  In the bars selected, the 1st selected bar was 
set to be included in measure numbering, but the following ones weren't. 
 The time signatures are set to be hidden.



was the measure dialog box.  The only thing I changed was the width. 
"Include in Measure Numbering" should have been a - , not a tick.  It's 
worth looking out for this.



was the the result.  Note that it's hidden the time signature in bar 1 
of the whole piece.  This is obviously a bad thing!  The other thing 
that happened was that all of the selected bars ended up being counted 
in the numbering region, because the first one was.


* Jeez it's annoying not being able to use plugins in parts.  For things 
like harp pedalling or cautionary accidentals that you don't want in the 
score, it is very annoying.


* I tried also extracting a part to a separate file (the 'old fashioned' 
way) and the strange thing that happened there was that the last two 
bars totally disappeared.  Then I added to new bars at the end to 
reenter the music manually - and it added the missing two bars!


* Is there any way to enter a text block (not a text expression) to 
appear just in one part?  I entered it off the page and dragged it in to 
the part in which it was needed, but surely there must be a better way.


It's well worth checking Finale 2007 parts very closely I think.

On the positive side, I recently bought a new iMac Core 2 Duo and Finale 
2007 flies on this machine, even using a dual monitor setup which 
traditionally has been slow on the Mac.


Matthew
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[Finale] Parts into a score

[Margaret whitby]

Thank you David Bailey,  I had assumed that because all the staves in 
the score were blank the existing music would not 'move to the right' 
when the next lot was  put in.  Anyway, I was able to move all the 
parts into the correct places with the 'replace entries'.   Problem no. 
2 was that none of the key changes were 'moved', however that was easy 
to correct and the results accurate.   Problem no. 3  was the time 
signature change half way through from 3/4 to 6/8 which was not 
'copied' either.  When I changed the time signature--- in the 
appropriate measure---to 6/8 ( 2 dotted quarters) the result was far 
from accurate, in particular the tuplet  '4 in the place of 6'  eights 
were a total mess.   Problem no 4. was the articulations and 
expressions some of which were copied and others were not.  Any further 
help would be greatly appreciated, from a temporarily emerged lurker, 
Margaret Whitby


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Re: [Finale] Parts into blank score

[dhbailey]

Margaret whitby wrote:
I have 5 string parts of a short concerto which I would like to put into 
score form.   I have successfully put in one part into the appropriate 
line of a blank score using both the copy and insert method and the 
option copy and insert method.  However as soon as I put in the next 
part the first one disappears--- I've tried this several times.   Any 
help would be much appreciated, Margaret Whitby





You say you have a blank score -- is it a 5-part score, or a single staff?

Set up a 5-part score, then copy and paste (not insert) each part into 
the appropriate staff.


You shouldn't have the music from one staff disappearing when you paste 
the music into another staff.



--
David H. Bailey
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[Finale] Parts into blank score

[Margaret whitby]

I have 5 string parts of a short concerto which I would like to put 
into score form.   I have successfully put in one part into the 
appropriate line of a blank score using both the copy and insert method 
and the option copy and insert method.  However as soon as I put in the 
next part the first one disappears--- I've tried this several times.   
Any help would be much appreciated, Margaret Whitby


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Re: [Finale] Parts & title pages

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 31.08.2006 dhbailey wrote:

Yes, and even in the score as well, so my advice, to achieve what you want, 
would be to create those title pages and blank pages, AFTER you've gotten the 
score set up as you wish and have generated the parts.


Not necessary. You can even create them in the templates, and just 
recreate them for parts, you won't have to reenter any of the text blocks.


Johannes
--
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Re: [Finale] Parts & title pages

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 31.08.2006 jp.gilles wrote:

And then, what happens in 2007 if you use linked parts with title pages? Do the 
parts also inherit the title pages?



No, the title and the blank page deleted.


Actually, you can re-add them, and they will inherit the textblocks from 
the score. For me this is actually one of the greatest benefits of 
linked parts.


Johannes
--
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Re: [Finale] Parts & title pages

[jp.gilles]

dhbailey a écrit :

dc wrote:

jp.gilles écrit:

No, the title and the blank page deleted.


Thanks, Jean-Paul.

Too bad... Can one reinsert them in all parts in one go?



Yes, and even in the score as well, so my advice, to achieve what you 
want, would be to create those title pages and blank pages, AFTER you've 
gotten the score set up as you wish and have generated the parts.


Then in the PageLayout tool, under the Page menu, select Insert Page(s) 
and you have the option to insert however many pages in just the current 
part or score, selected parts/score, all parts, all parts and score.


When you do this, after you've generated the parts, the blank pages 
stay.  Then you can insert your Title text block on the first page in 
the score and it will show in all the parts, on the first blank page.


It is really flexible, but as with much about the new linked parts/score 
feature, it will require a change in your current work habits.


If you work from templates a lot of the time, set up your template and 
generate the empty parts and then get the first pages as you want with 
whatever text inserts you want wherever you want them, and then save it 
again as a template and the blank pages will remain.





Many thanks David and sorry for my bad answer..

I've answered too quickly to Dennis and I've try this with a file 
created in Fin 2k5. With this file when you open parts there is no title 
page, but if you insert two blank pages at the begining, the title is on 
the first.

Your tip work fine for a new file created in Fin 2k7.

Jean Paul Gilles
http://www.2mceditions.com


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Re: [Finale] Parts & title pages

[David W. Fenton]

On 31 Aug 2006 at 7:31, dhbailey wrote:

> Yes, and even in the score as well, so my advice, to achieve what you
> want, would be to create those title pages and blank pages, AFTER
> you've gotten the score set up as you wish and have generated the
> parts.
> 
> Then in the PageLayout tool, under the Page menu, select Insert
> Page(s) and you have the option to insert however many pages in just
> the current part or score, selected parts/score, all parts, all parts
> and score.
> 
> When you do this, after you've generated the parts, the blank pages
> stay.  Then you can insert your Title text block on the first page in
> the score and it will show in all the parts, on the first blank page.

What about graphics? I often place a graphic on the title pages. 
That's probably going to require insertion into every part, no? If 
so, that's a significant increase in the amount of work it takes.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Parts & title pages

[dhbailey]

dc wrote:

jp.gilles écrit:

No, the title and the blank page deleted.


Thanks, Jean-Paul.

Too bad... Can one reinsert them in all parts in one go?



Yes, and even in the score as well, so my advice, to achieve what you 
want, would be to create those title pages and blank pages, AFTER you've 
gotten the score set up as you wish and have generated the parts.


Then in the PageLayout tool, under the Page menu, select Insert Page(s) 
and you have the option to insert however many pages in just the current 
part or score, selected parts/score, all parts, all parts and score.


When you do this, after you've generated the parts, the blank pages 
stay.  Then you can insert your Title text block on the first page in 
the score and it will show in all the parts, on the first blank page.


It is really flexible, but as with much about the new linked parts/score 
feature, it will require a change in your current work habits.


If you work from templates a lot of the time, set up your template and 
generate the empty parts and then get the first pages as you want with 
whatever text inserts you want wherever you want them, and then save it 
again as a template and the blank pages will remain.



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Re: [Finale] Parts & title pages

[jp.gilles]

dc a écrit :
My scores generally have a title page, followed by a blank page, with 
the score starting on page 3. I need to keep this same disposition in 
the parts. But, when I extract the parts, these first two pages 
disappear. And if I want to keep the title and composer's name, the 
copyright, etc. that appear on page 3, I haven't found any other way 
then deleting the first two pages of the score before extracting the 
parts, extracting the parts without saving the score, then adding two 
blank pages to the part, and then adding the text block title page.


Am I missing something that would make things simpler?

And then, what happens in 2007 if you use linked parts with title pages? 
Do the parts also inherit the title pages?




No, the title and the blank page deleted.

Jean Paul Gilles
http://www.2mceditions.com
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[A-NO-NE Music]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 04.11.23 / 6:27PM wrote:

>Your layout should stay if you are using the regular cut and paste. 
>But if for some reason it doesn't, lock the format before you clear 
>out the part. (Mass Edit Tool, type cmd-A then cmd-L .  Then to 
>unlock cmd-U.)  I make a habit of locking the format when I am done 
>copying a part anyway.  It is easy enough to unlock it if you need to 
>make changes.

I didn't think about this.
Thank you so much for this tip.

And thank you so much for your private message, too!  It was very nice of
you :-)

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[laloba2]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 04.11.23 / 1:28PM wrote:
Cmd+Option+V is Paste.
Yes, I understand that.  I was trying to follow this instruction:
For example, if I have just done Flute 1, I then save
that part as Flute 2, clear out the notes etc (using the clear key)
leaving the template blank with the layout preserved, change the
instrument name at the top of the page, and then paste the 2nd flute
from the score to the part.
For this, I don't think you want to use Insert.
Oh I see what you meanI don't use the clip file feature for this. 
I only use the clip file feature when I am first setting up the main 
template that I will use for the parts.  Or when I am modifying parts 
(inserting a new section into the middle of an existing part if I 
have made changes to the score other than just note changes..i.e. 
added measures that have time sig changes for example.)  Using the 
clip file feature is much faster than adding the measures, then 
adding the time sig., then adding key sig changes, Tempo markings, 
then cutting and pasting in the notes etc.  The clip file feature 
will do all of this for you all at once.

For what you are talking about above, saving flute 1 as flute 2 and 
then clearing and pasting in the flute 2 part, I use the regular cut 
and pastecmd-C and the cmd-V  to paste the flute 2 part from 
score to the part.

Your layout should stay if you are using the regular cut and paste. 
But if for some reason it doesn't, lock the format before you clear 
out the part. (Mass Edit Tool, type cmd-A then cmd-L .  Then to 
unlock cmd-U.)  I make a habit of locking the format when I am done 
copying a part anyway.  It is easy enough to unlock it if you need to 
make changes.

Best,
Karen


My problem was layout weren't preserved, and if I disable AutoUpdate then
spacing gets screwed where the new part has more accidentals.
--
- Hiro
Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[A-NO-NE Music]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 04.11.23 / 1:28PM wrote:

>Cmd+Option+V is Paste.

Yes, I understand that.  I was trying to follow this instruction:

>For example, if I have just done Flute 1, I then save 
>that part as Flute 2, clear out the notes etc (using the clear key) 
>leaving the template blank with the layout preserved, change the 
>instrument name at the top of the page, and then paste the 2nd flute 
>from the score to the part.

For this, I don't think you want to use Insert.

My problem was layout weren't preserved, and if I disable AutoUpdate then
spacing gets screwed where the new part has more accidentals.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[laloba2]

Hi Hiro,
Cmd+Option+V is Paste.  You want insert from clip file.  Here:
1.  In the Mass Edit tool, highlight the measures in your source file 
that you want to copy to your target file.
2.  Hold down the option key and go to Edit>Copy to Clip File
3.  Choose a location for your file and name it...I usually place the 
the file on my desktop to find it easily.
4.  Go to your target file...you'll need at least one blank measure 
in this document...highlight either the one blank measure (in the 
case of starting a whole new document) or add a blank measure where 
you want to insert the new "piece" (in the case that you are 
appending an exisiting document.) and highlight that blank measure.
5. Hold down the option key again and go to Edit>Insert from clip file.
6. Navigate to your clip file and click on open.
7. You should now have the new "section" in the new document.

***Note:  The blank measure that you used to insert the clip file 
will appear as a blank measure at the end of the piece that you 
inserted.  You can just delete this measure.

Take care,
Karen

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 04.11.22 / 7:05PM wrote:
I use the clip file feature to bring the score's form into the first
part which will become my score/cue/composition template for that
particular song.

Thanks everyone responding to my question.
I was interested in this clip file feature.  For a long time, I used to
hope Finale can do Finder Clipping, i.e., select a region then drag it to
Finder which creates a clipping file that can be dragged into another
file, just like text clippings.  Many DAW apps has this feature even for
audio/MIDI data type, via the file which is dynamically linked to the
clippings.
I just searched the manual and found the description of this feature.  I
Cmd+Opt+C from the source and Cmd+Opt+V to target.  The resulted document
did change the layout because the new source had a few more notes than
the original.  If I disable the AutoUpdate, the spacing gets kinda
screwed especially where more accidentals are.  I feel I missed something...?
--
- Hiro
Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[Owain Sutton]

Daniel Wolf wrote:
24-tone equal temperament (quartertone tuning) is used only by a segment 
of the microtonal community. The "nonstandard key signature" feature has 
the great virtue of being adaptable to a wide variety of tuning systems, 
with as many accidentals and nominals as you need, and all of those 
which have constant structures can be transposed as needed via chromatic 
transposition.  In combination with a microtonal relay program like 
InTun, Midi Relay, or Scala, Finale offers a powerful micrtonal capacity.
(snip)
Firstly, I should have pointed out I was purely talking about notation, 
and not about playback!  Which leads me onto why I feel there needs to 
be a halfway option between the complex but versatile nonstandard-key 
option and normal keys.  A significant proportion of microtonal music 
will be notatable with a 24-step system (obviously with a variety of 
symbols to choose from).  Obviously, if something more complex is 
needed, then the person can expect to be digging around obscure dialogs. 
 I guess all I'm really asking is for a one-click option, that would 
create a nonstandard setting which produces a basic quartertone system. 
 (And having the transposition procedure have quartertone options would 
be nice!)

My points aren't so much for what would make my life easier - but I'm 
getting back to the old argument of how to make Finale more accessible 
to newcomers.
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[A-NO-NE Music]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 04.11.22 / 7:05PM wrote:

>I use the clip file feature to bring the score's form into the first 
>part which will become my score/cue/composition template for that 
>particular song. 


Thanks everyone responding to my question.
I was interested in this clip file feature.  For a long time, I used to
hope Finale can do Finder Clipping, i.e., select a region then drag it to
Finder which creates a clipping file that can be dragged into another
file, just like text clippings.  Many DAW apps has this feature even for
audio/MIDI data type, via the file which is dynamically linked to the
clippings.

I just searched the manual and found the description of this feature.  I
Cmd+Opt+C from the source and Cmd+Opt+V to target.  The resulted document
did change the layout because the new source had a few more notes than
the original.  If I disable the AutoUpdate, the spacing gets kinda
screwed especially where more accidentals are.  I feel I missed something...?

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[Daniel Wolf]

Owain Sutton wrote:
One hassle I have is that much of what I deal with is microtonal, 
which makes converting from a concert-pitch microtonal score to 
transposed instrument parts a real pain (when oh when oh when will the 
'nonstandard key signature' business be replaced by something 
(anything) better? Would it really be that difficult for a 
quarter-tone system to be available as a preset?)

24-tone equal temperament (quartertone tuning) is used only by a segment 
of the microtonal community. The "nonstandard key signature" feature has 
the great virtue of being adaptable to a wide variety of tuning systems, 
with as many accidentals and nominals as you need, and all of those 
which have constant structures can be transposed as needed via chromatic 
transposition.  In combination with a microtonal relay program like 
InTun, Midi Relay, or Scala, Finale offers a powerful micrtonal capacity.

The only notation program with microtonal facility that is competitive 
with Finale is Lime.  Lime has a table assigning pitch bends to each 
pitch and accidental combination.  This eliminates the need for a relay 
program and is especially useful for those tunings in which the nominals 
vary from 12tet values.  The disadvantage, however, is that the tuning 
table is limited to seven nominals and four accidentals -- 35 pitches in 
total.

An ideal microtonal program would combine both the "nonstandard key 
signature feature" for use when the tuning is controlled externally to 
Finale, _as is_, with a tuning table a la Lime, but more extensive, for 
use with FInale-internal pitch bends.

Daniel Wolf
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[Giz Bowe]

At 05:43 PM 11/22/04, you wrote:
Personally, I create extracted parts files, and then I go through each 
part to neaten things up, make sure page turns are in the right place, 
etc. When I need to correct a mistake, I change it both in the source 
score and in the part. If I have to make large-scale changes to the score, 
I re-extract the parts.
This what I do also. There was a discussion a short while back about 
Special Part Extraction, and several list members very kindly gave detailed 
instructions and hints on how to use it. I tried this, and did not like it 
as well as regular parts extraction, as the scores were being corrected or 
changed several times before the final version. I didn't have the luxury of 
getting a final version prepared before I printed parts, as corrections and 
changes were made in rehearsals. I would lose track of which part held the 
latest changes.

Part of the trick to parts extraction is to get your settings highly 
tweaked in your main template, and then do the same using the extraction 
dialogue boxes (percentages, layouts, etc).

Giz
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[Owain Sutton]

The only way I ever work is to get my score 100% correct in all ways, 
from basic layout to nitty-gritty proofreading to final tweaking.  Only 
when it's in a state I'd be happy to make it public do I extract parts. 
 Each one individually needs a lot of subsequent tweaking, but in the 
whole scheme of things it doesn't add much to the workload, but makes 
sure the final product is subjected to scrutiny at all stages.  Even if 
it were possible, I wouldn't want a change to the score to affect parts 
as well - I want to go in to the parts myself and make sure that the 
change works correctly, and doesn't cause other problems.

One hassle I have is that much of what I deal with is microtonal, which 
makes converting from a concert-pitch microtonal score to transposed 
instrument parts a real pain (when oh when oh when will the 'nonstandard 
key signature' business be replaced by something (anything) better? 
Would it really be that difficult for a quarter-tone system to be 
available as a preset?)
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[Johannes Gebauer]

I agree that linked parts and score files would be desirable. However, 
since we don't have this feature (and I doubt that we will see this 
before Finale2k8), here is what I do:

Part Extraction is the very last thing I do. Before I do this, I 
duplicate my score file, and prepare the duplicate for part extraction 
only. This includes cue notes, special text blocks, changes in the page 
layout, whatever I need. Only then do I extract parts.

Changes to the score, which at that stage should only be error 
corrections, have to be done in the parts as well.

If there are larger changes it is often easier to re-extract.
I don't think Special Part Extraction has much value for anything that 
has more than one part which needs to be extracted. I never use it.

Johannes
A-NO-NE Music wrote:
I have been trying to search MailMan2 dB but I am getting too many hits
on this subject.  Please forgive me if this subject was covered before.
My long time gripe:
Finale offers 3 ways of creating parts, but none of which is convenient
as dead MOTU Mosaic was.  Finale encourages to create separate extracted
part files for best results, but it does not offer dynamic file link for
future editing.  My first question is that if there is a feature I am
missing here.
Basically I have been doing parts with Special Parts Extraction, but this
is also hardly convenient since you have to re-space every single part,
or compromised spacing with groups of parts, yet you can't save the
changes.  If you group similar parts then save separately, it also
prohibits future editing.  I do not wish to play same arrangement for
live shows, and that's why I bought computer based notation system back
in 1987.
How are you dealing with this?
Thanks in advance.
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[laloba2]

Hello Hiro,
I have a one measure blank template that I use for each new 
score/cue/composition that I do parts for.

I use the clip file feature to bring the score's form into the first 
part which will become my score/cue/composition template for that 
particular song.   I can then add anything extra that I want to have 
appear in all the parts which aren't in the score (word cues or 
reduced size note cues for players that are resting a long time etc.)

I can then rather quickly, cut and paste each part from the score 
into the completed template.  (Doing a save as of the template to 
create the new part)  If you are very careful, with your score input, 
to make things you want in all the parts measure attached (Tempo 
markings etc.) and the things that are specific to the part 
(dynamics, legato, con sord. hairpins etc.) note attached everything 
comes in to the parts very well.

For each section, when I know that the layouts will be very similar, 
I will do a save as of the actual part I am working on to preserve 
the layout.  For example, if I have just done Flute 1, I then save 
that part as Flute 2, clear out the notes etc (using the clear key) 
leaving the template blank with the layout preserved, change the 
instrument name at the top of the page, and then paste the 2nd flute 
from the score to the part.  With very little adjustment, the part is 
done.

Because I don't have to redo the layout on every new part, I find 
this to be very fast.

Unfortunately, Finale doesn't really work like Mosaicso you can't 
really change the score and have the parts reflect the changes 
without the problems you are experiencing with Special Part 
Extraction.

My suggestion to you would be to do Save as when you want to create a 
new arrangement of your composition of both your parts and scores 
with perhaps a new version number to distinguish them.  Then you can 
just cut and paste the changes to your piece into the new score and 
parts.  The clip file feature may be handy in this case too.  This 
way, each time you change the score and parts for variety, you now 
have two versions of your composition to go back to if on any given 
night you want to play a different version of the arrangement. 
And/or if you want different versions for a recording versus a live 
performance.

Hope this is of come help.
K

I have been trying to search MailMan2 dB but I am getting too many hits
on this subject.  Please forgive me if this subject was covered before.
My long time gripe:
Finale offers 3 ways of creating parts, but none of which is convenient
as dead MOTU Mosaic was.  Finale encourages to create separate extracted
part files for best results, but it does not offer dynamic file link for
future editing.  My first question is that if there is a feature I am
missing here.
Basically I have been doing parts with Special Parts Extraction, but this
is also hardly convenient since you have to re-space every single part,
or compromised spacing with groups of parts, yet you can't save the
changes.  If you group similar parts then save separately, it also
prohibits future editing.  I do not wish to play same arrangement for
live shows, and that's why I bought computer based notation system back
in 1987.
How are you dealing with this?
Thanks in advance.
--
- Hiro
Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 
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Re: [Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[Aaron Sherber]

At 05:26 PM 11/22/2004, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
>as dead MOTU Mosaic was.  Finale encourages to create separate extracted
>part files for best results, but it does not offer dynamic file link for
>future editing.  My first question is that if there is a feature I am
>missing here.
No, you are not missing anything.
>Basically I have been doing parts with Special Parts Extraction, but this
>is also hardly convenient since you have to re-space every single part,
>or compromised spacing with groups of parts, yet you can't save the
>changes.
This is also true.
>How are you dealing with this?
People have different ways of handling parts. Some people do use Special 
Part Extraction; I find it totally useless. So your mileage may vary.

Personally, I create extracted parts files, and then I go through each part 
to neaten things up, make sure page turns are in the right place, etc. When 
I need to correct a mistake, I change it both in the source score and in 
the part. If I have to make large-scale changes to the score, I re-extract 
the parts.

Aaron.
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[Finale] Parts Extraction Methodology

[A-NO-NE Music]

I have been trying to search MailMan2 dB but I am getting too many hits
on this subject.  Please forgive me if this subject was covered before.

My long time gripe:
Finale offers 3 ways of creating parts, but none of which is convenient
as dead MOTU Mosaic was.  Finale encourages to create separate extracted
part files for best results, but it does not offer dynamic file link for
future editing.  My first question is that if there is a feature I am
missing here.

Basically I have been doing parts with Special Parts Extraction, but this
is also hardly convenient since you have to re-space every single part,
or compromised spacing with groups of parts, yet you can't save the
changes.  If you group similar parts then save separately, it also
prohibits future editing.  I do not wish to play same arrangement for
live shows, and that's why I bought computer based notation system back
in 1987.

How are you dealing with this?
Thanks in advance.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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[Finale] Parts for shows

[Dean M. Estabrook]

I hear the pain out there this spring I played trb. in the pit for 
Pajama Game, and the part was so bad I took it home and rewrote the 
entire thing in Finale.  It took a long time, but at least I could play 
the show.

Dean M. Estabrook
technology is a fickle mistresscan't live with hercan't live 
witout her. Upgrade or perish.

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