Re: [Flexradio] Frequency coverage of 6000 rxvr?
30kHz... 0.03MHz. Thanks for catching this. Steve On Sunday, May 20, 2012, Jerry Flanders wrote: The 6000 brochure states freq coverage of rxvr as 0.03 MHz to 77 MHz on page 3 but from 0.3 MHz to 77 MHz on page 6. Which is it? Thanks Jerry W4UK __**_ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/**mailman/listinfo/flexradio_**flex-radio.bizhttp://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ -- Steve Stephen Hicks, N5AC, AAR6AM VP Engineering FlexRadio Systems™ 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 x205 Email: st...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com *Tune In Excitement™* PowerSDR™ is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment
Michael - I don't have my 5K on this PC, so this is from memory. Calibrate the receiver (it will look for WWV as I recall). Someplace in the setup menu. 73 Ken ac0ho On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Michael freem...@rogers.com wrote: I notice that my Flex 5000A is about 50 Hz off frequency. This seems to be a recent development. How does one 'reset things to correct it. I have had the discretion verified by a number of people and in comparing the Flex to other radio I have here too. ). I have nothing special in my current flex setup to need to retain ANY information so wiping out everything if required is fine.. Thanks . Mike (Ve3bge). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment
Ken, No, receiver calibration doesn't do it -- Freq Cal does. Michael, 1. Tune in WWV on 10MHz. 2. Open the Setup form. 3. Select the General Calibration tabs. 4. Check the Expert box answer Yes to the message that pops up. 5. Make certain that Frequency is set to 10.00. 6. Click on Start. That's all there is to it. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment
OK, now you've done it. Give the people a little information and they come back for more.I did this, and get the error message Peak is outside valid range. Am I that far out of calibration? The Panadapter's peak display reads 10.000.009 when the frequency is set to 10.000.000 . There is also a display next to the panadapter peak (bottom right) that reads 8.8 Hz . Align, return, fagedabowdih? Jim KJ2P From: k9...@rnacs.com To: kena...@gmail.com; freem...@rogers.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:04:06 -0400 CC: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment Ken, No, receiver calibration doesn't do it -- Freq Cal does. Michael, 1. Tune in WWV on 10MHz. 2. Open the Setup form. 3. Select the General Calibration tabs. 4. Check the Expert box answer Yes to the message that pops up. 5. Make certain that Frequency is set to 10.00. 6. Click on Start. That's all there is to it. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment
Jim, Do a Reset to Factory Defaults from the setup screen. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info From: Jim Jannuzzo [mailto:jsqu...@msn.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 1:38 PM To: K9DUR; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: RE: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment OK, now you've done it. Give the people a little information and they come back for more. I did this, and get the error message Peak is outside valid range. Am I that far out of calibration? The Panadapter's peak display reads 10.000.009 when the frequency is set to 10.000.000 . There is also a display next to the panadapter peak (bottom right) that reads 8.8 Hz . Align, return, fagedabowdih? Jim KJ2P From: k9...@rnacs.com To: kena...@gmail.com; freem...@rogers.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:04:06 -0400 CC: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment Ken, No, receiver calibration doesn't do it -- Freq Cal does. Michael, 1. Tune in WWV on 10MHz. 2. Open the Setup form. 3. Select the General Calibration tabs. 4. Check the Expert box answer Yes to the message that pops up. 5. Make certain that Frequency is set to 10.00. 6. Click on Start. That's all there is to it. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Jim Jannuzzo jsqu...@msn.com wrote: OK, now you've done it. Give the people a little information and they come back for more.I did this, and get the error message Peak is outside valid range. Am I that far out of calibration? Yes. My 5000 without calibration was never more than about 5Hz off. This is why I asked you to check to see if you have inadvertently selected Ext Ref. The Panadapter's peak display reads 10.000.009 when the frequency is set to 10.000.000 . There is also a display next to the panadapter peak (bottom right) that reads 8.8 Hz . Align, return, fagedabowdih? SetupGeneralHardware ConfigUse Ext. Ref Input. If that is not checked then click the Factory Defaults button to create a fresh database and try again. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment
Thanks. Did that, and the calibration routine completed without errors. The displayed maximum signal location is now showing 10.000.007 . This was more of an exercise just to practice. Then I used the SDR Data Transfer program from that guy Ray K9DUR to transfer all of my options seamlessly. (Thanks for that, again, BTW!) Jim KJ2P From: k9...@rnacs.com To: jsqu...@msn.com; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: RE: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 14:11:56 -0400 Jim, Do a Reset to Factory Defaults from the setup screen. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info From: Jim Jannuzzo [mailto:jsqu...@msn.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 1:38 PM To: K9DUR; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: RE: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment OK, now you've done it. Give the people a little information and they come back for more. I did this, and get the error message Peak is outside valid range. Am I that far out of calibration? The Panadapter's peak display reads 10.000.009 when the frequency is set to 10.000.000 . There is also a display next to the panadapter peak (bottom right) that reads 8.8 Hz . Align, return, fagedabowdih? Jim KJ2P From: k9...@rnacs.com To: kena...@gmail.com; freem...@rogers.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:04:06 -0400 CC: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency adjustment Ken, No, receiver calibration doesn't do it -- Freq Cal does. Michael, 1. Tune in WWV on 10MHz. 2. Open the Setup form. 3. Select the General Calibration tabs. 4. Check the Expert box answer Yes to the message that pops up. 5. Make certain that Frequency is set to 10.00. 6. Click on Start. That's all there is to it. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency synthesizer free to a good home...
That didn't take long! Thanks for the rapid responses, guys. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:04 PM, William H. Fite omni...@gmail.com wrote: I have an HP 3336B frequency synthesizer/level generator that I will give to any flexer just for packing/shipping cost.10Hz to 21MHz. The B model has telco connectors on the front. I have a couple of telco-BNC connectors for it, along with the power cord and a photocopy of the operator's manual. Fully operation, NIST calibration just expired last month. Let me know if you want it and we'll figure out the cost to pack and ship. Bill ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency?
Steven, Yes, the FLEX-3000 supports self-calibration. But no need to go to the calibration screen -- simply go to WWV select Phase for the display. If the pattern is not rotating, then you are on frequency. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Tim, The other thing special about WWV is that the frequency is not only known, but it is known VERY accurately. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
For further clarification, I should have said... There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular KNOWN AND VERY ACCURATE frequency. ANY carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Fine on that Tim and as guide use this or ? : http://kc.flexradio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50175.aspx?Keywords=wwv /Erik Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk wrote: The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. Then change the calibration frequency value to 9996000. Two things matter and are required for the calibration to work: 1. It must be a steady carrier; 2. It must be at least as accurate as the radio, which implies an accuracy better than about 1/2 Hz. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On 15-07-2011 16:17, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. Then change the calibration frequency value to 9996000. Two things matter and are required for the calibration to work: 1. It must be a steady carrier; 2. It must be at least as accurate as the radio, which implies an accuracy better than about 1/2 Hz. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Ok Brian, and it's diffuclt to determine such an accuracy. /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
The variation is from the atmospheric Doppler effect. Yeah, those Cesium clocks they use make for a really cheap clock source :-) -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems™ 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement™/ PowerSDR™ is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 10:06 AM, geo...@gloria.us wrote: Regarding WWV accuracy, I find that the WWV frequency varies +/- fractions of a hz periodically, here in Vestal, NY! They must be using a cheap crystal! grin George K2CM Original Message Subject: Re: [Flexradio] frequency From: Ray, K9DUR k9...@rnacs.com mailto:k9...@rnacs.com Date: Fri, July 15, 2011 6:27 am To: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com, flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:flexradio@flex-radio.biz Tim, The other thing special about WWV is that the frequency is not only known, but it is known VERY accurately. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz mailto:FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
A problem with the Russian standard frequency stations like RWM is that they usually don't transmit a continuous carrier but at some short periods. Most of the time they key the carrier on and off with the 1 pps or 10 pps pulses, quite difficult to use then for fine receiver calibrations so you must wait until the carrier is steady on. I used to have a schedule but Is lost it some time ago. Ignacio, EB4APL On 15/07/2011 16:04, Erik Jakobsen wrote: Fine on that Tim and as guide use this or ? : http://kc.flexradio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50175.aspx?Keywords=wwv /Erik Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Once you have run the frequency calibration, you can use these techniques to fine tune the frequency accuracy, but you will find that the frequency calibration routine will get you very close. This KB article was written when the frequency calibration routine was not as accurate as it is now. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 10:04 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: Fine on that Tim and as guide use this or ? : http://kc.flexradio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50175.aspx?Keywords=wwv /Erik Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:19 AM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk wrote: 1. It must be at least as accurate as the radio, which implies an accuracy better than about 1/2 Hz. Ok Brian, and it's diffuclt to determine such an accuracy. Not so much any more. There are lots of sources of very accurate signals. Most broadcast time signals are that accurate. Alternatively you can get your own highly-accurate 10MHz reference for the radio and then set the clock offset to zero. That is what I have done. I have both an LPRO-101 Rubidium atomic reference and a Thunderbolt GPS-disciplined reference. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Hi Ignacio Ok with RWM and how it does the trick. I found the schedule here: http://www.irkutsk.com/radio/tis.htm /Erik A problem with the Russian standard frequency stations like RWM is that they usually don't transmit a continuous carrier but at some short periods. Most of the time they key the carrier on and off with the 1 pps or 10 pps pulses, quite difficult to use then for fine receiver calibrations so you must wait until the carrier is steady on. I used to have a schedule but Is lost it some time ago. Ignacio, EB4APL On 15/07/2011 16:04, Erik Jakobsen wrote: Fine on that Tim and as guide use this or ? : http://kc.flexradio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50175.aspx?Keywords=wwv /Erik Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Ok Tim. I'll keep fingers away, as there's now issue on my site with it :-) /Erik Once you have run the frequency calibration, you can use these techniques to fine tune the frequency accuracy, but you will find that the frequency calibration routine will get you very close. This KB article was written when the frequency calibration routine was not as accurate as it is now. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 10:04 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: Fine on that Tim and as guide use this or ? : http://kc.flexradio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50175.aspx?Keywords=wwv /Erik Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives:
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
I found RWM schedule on the net: http://www.irkutsk.com/radio/tis.htm I don't know if it is current. Ignacio, EB4APL On 15/07/2011 16:30, EB4APL wrote: A problem with the Russian standard frequency stations like RWM is that they usually don't transmit a continuous carrier but at some short periods. Most of the time they key the carrier on and off with the 1 pps or 10 pps pulses, quite difficult to use then for fine receiver calibrations so you must wait until the carrier is steady on. I used to have a schedule but Is lost it some time ago. Ignacio, EB4APL On 15/07/2011 16:04, Erik Jakobsen wrote: Fine on that Tim and as guide use this or ? : http://kc.flexradio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50175.aspx?Keywords=wwv /Erik Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Good job Ignacio /Erik I found RWM schedule on the net: http://www.irkutsk.com/radio/tis.htm I don't know if it is current. Ignacio, EB4APL On 15/07/2011 16:30, EB4APL wrote: A problem with the Russian standard frequency stations like RWM is that they usually don't transmit a continuous carrier but at some short periods. Most of the time they key the carrier on and off with the 1 pps or 10 pps pulses, quite difficult to use then for fine receiver calibrations so you must wait until the carrier is steady on. I used to have a schedule but Is lost it some time ago. Ignacio, EB4APL On 15/07/2011 16:04, Erik Jakobsen wrote: Fine on that Tim and as guide use this or ? : http://kc.flexradio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50175.aspx?Keywords=wwv /Erik Assuming the carrier is at 9996, change the frequency in the calibration form and the VFO-A to 9996 and run the calibration test. There is nothing special about WWV other than the carrier is at a particular frequency. And carrier at a known frequency can be used. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/15/2011 3:26 AM, Erik Jakobsen wrote: On 15-07-2011 09:16, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Erik Jakobsen e...@urbakken.dk mailto:e...@urbakken.dk wrote: On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com mailto:w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? It doesn't matter. The calibration routine changes the radio mode to suit its own purposes. 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com mailto:br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) Tnx Brian. The most stable in this part of the world is the Russian qrg standard. But it's NOT on 10Mhz, bu on 9996. How to ? /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
George, Not a cheap crystal -- just a cheap ionosphere...hi..hi. While the transmitted frequency is dead on, the received frequency of signals from WWV does vary slightly with propagation. The frequency averaged over a period of time will be accurate, however. 73, Ray, K9DUR http://k9dur.info ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Ray, K9DUR k9...@rnacs.com wrote: George, Not a cheap crystal -- just a cheap ionosphere...hi..hi. While the transmitted frequency is dead on, the received frequency of signals from WWV does vary slightly with propagation. The frequency averaged over a period of time will be accurate, however. Or, not so much. It is quite interesting to monitor the frequency of CHU for long periods of time. (WWV isn't as good as you get both WWV and WWVH on the same frequencies and you get interesting interference effects.) I have seen doppler shifts of several Hz, and smaller shifts that have persisted for minutes. So, yes, if you average over a REALLY long period of time, days probably, you will get accurate data. But if you only average over minutes, not so much. There is probably something wrong with me but monitoring CHU for hours and plotting the frequency variations is one of my favorite passtimes. I have learned much about what the ionosphere does to a signal. Spectrum Lab analysis of frequency is also enlightening because it highlights the spectral broadening and sometimes spectral splitting. (Differential doppler on different paths can produce multiple spectral lines from a single carrier.) This is one of the really cool things about having a radio that is so accurate and stable in frequency. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
It's OK Brian...there is probably something wrong with all us us. On 7/15/2011 11:23 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Ray, K9DURk9...@rnacs.com wrote: There is probably something wrong with me but monitoring CHU for hours and plotting the frequency variations is one of my favorite passtimes. ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Kevin, Make sure that you have followed the frequency calibration for your radio.. then check your radio.. If you must, you can offset the DDS , but that will effect the other frequencies severely. 73, Dudley WA5QPZ On 7/14/2011 10:03 AM, Kevin Hobbs wrote: Hi I always find that I like the sound of a station on SSB when I tune 100 Hz off .. ie: 50.109900 instead of 50.110. Is there an easy way to put this 100Hz offset into the powerSDR setup? 73 Kevin ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Use RIT to give you a 100 Hz offset. -Tim --- Tim Ellison, W4TME Internet Systems Admin. Customer Support Engineer FlexRadio Systems^(TM) 4616 W Howard Ln Ste 1-150 Austin, TX 78728 Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223 Email: t...@flexradio.com mailto:t...@flexradio.com Web: www.flexradio.com http://www.flexradio.com logo /Tune In Excitement^(TM)/ PowerSDR^(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 7/14/2011 11:03 AM, Kevin Hobbs wrote: Hi I always find that I like the sound of a station on SSB when I tune 100 Hz off .. ie: 50.109900 instead of 50.110. Is there an easy way to put this 100Hz offset into the powerSDR setup? 73 Kevin ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? TIA, ~~Guy W6NJX On 7/14/2011 5:45 PM, Dudley Hurry wrote: Kevin, Make sure that you have followed the frequency calibration for your radio.. then check your radio.. If you must, you can offset the DDS , but that will effect the other frequencies severely. 73, Dudley WA5QPZ On 7/14/2011 10:03 AM, Kevin Hobbs wrote: Hi I always find that I like the sound of a station on SSB when I tune 100 Hz off .. ie: 50.109900 instead of 50.110. Is there an easy way to put this 100Hz offset into the powerSDR setup? 73 Kevin ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ -- ~~~*Guy Harris* ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harris w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Or just tim the frequency calibration routine in the Setup form using a WWV Frequency. -Tim Sent from my iPhone On Jul 14, 2011, at 10:13 PM, Brian Lloyd brian-wb6...@lloyd.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harris w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Tim Ellison, W4TME t...@flex-radio.comwrote: Or just tim the frequency calibration routine in the Setup form using a WWV Frequency. I think he is trying to determine if there is a problem. If PowerSDR is able to self-calibrate the radio to WWV with some kind of reasonable clock offset, then the radio is probably working properly. If it tracks WWV within a Hz or so after calibration at 15MHz or 20MHz, then there is a good chance that the 100Hz error at 50MHz is NOT the Flex radio but rather his 50MHz reference signal that has the 100Hz error. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
Guy, It's really easy with WWV (or you can use any other high calibrated signal) , go to the Calibration tab of Setup, page 132 of the current Owners Guide, click the Expert box, with a good signal on WWV, at least a S5 on the meter, be sure to match the frequency box to the WWV or generator frequency and click Start.. Wait a few seconds for the Finished message.. That's it.. 73, Dudley On 7/14/2011 8:30 PM, Guy Harris wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? TIA, ~~Guy W6NJX On 7/14/2011 5:45 PM, Dudley Hurry wrote: Kevin, Make sure that you have followed the frequency calibration for your radio.. then check your radio.. If you must, you can offset the DDS , but that will effect the other frequencies severely. 73, Dudley WA5QPZ On 7/14/2011 10:03 AM, Kevin Hobbs wrote: Hi I always find that I like the sound of a station on SSB when I tune 100 Hz off .. ie: 50.109900 instead of 50.110. Is there an easy way to put this 100Hz offset into the powerSDR setup? 73 Kevin ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] frequency
On 15-07-2011 04:13, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Guy Harrisw6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Just how does one check the frequency calibration on a F5k? 1. tune in WWV or CHU And with the radio in which mode ? 2. Setupgeneralcalibration 3. Select WWV frequency 4. press START 5. go look at the clock offset in setupgeneralhardware configDDS-Expert /Erik ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Errors in the F5K and F3K
George, The VFO / DDS error can be computed, based on the PSDR settings and radio's clocking design. I do not know anything about the F5K or F3K designs. I developed my correction spreadsheet with the help of Analog Devices' datasheet and simulation tool for their AD9951 DDS chip. From what I have read, the Spur Reduction does (sometimes) change the frequency tuning word sent to the DDS; so I keep it off during FMT's. 6 months ago I too was a newbie; finished 6th from last in my first FMT. I'm a retired measurement engineer, and now realize that measurement wasn't just a job I enjoyed very much, it was a passion! John Stuart, KM6QX _ From: geo...@gloria.us [mailto:geo...@gloria.us] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 8:02 AM To: John Stuart Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Frequency Errors in the F5K and F3K I have both an F5K and an F3K. Where do I get information regarding the errors that you mentioned. Must these errors be measured or can they be computed? I did use the Rubidium standard as my external reference into the F5K. I did not turn off spur reduction, however. How does spur reduction interact with the measurements? Please excuse my lack of knowledge regarding making measurements. Am a newbie for FMT. I am not even sure how to ask the right questions. Thanks George K2CM (who did miserably on 40M in the last FMT.80 meters was 1hz.) Original Message Subject: Re: [Flexradio] [Bulk] FMT Results From: John Stuart j.w.stu...@comcast.net http://j.w.stu...@comcast.net%3e ; Date: Sun, April 17, 2011 7:16 pm To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz (OK Brian Lloyd, I'm jumping in with both feet) With my Flex-1500, and a 'perfect' 10 MHz external reference oscillator, and PSDR set for CWU mode, a 600 Hz Pitch Freq., Spur Reduction turned off, Clock Offset set to 0, IF set to 0 Hz, and the VFO set to 10.000 000 Hz; the Flex's QSD (Quadrature Sampling Detector) will be receiving at 9,999,999.958 Hz, i.e. 42 mHz low. (Actually it's 41.822 mHz low, if your still paying attention) That's a one sentence summary of what I have learned about my Flex-150 over the past few months. With some test equipment, needle pointed probes, and a magnifying glasses, I have figured out the Flex-1500's clocking scheme and discovered some DDS control 'anomalies' (software error?). I then developed an Excel spreadsheet that calculates the exact DDS output frequency, which I have confirmed with 1) direct DDS chip output measurements, 2) mHz resolution signal generator reception tests, and 3) GPS locked radio station reception tests. I doubt that my Excel worksheet would apply directly to the Flex 5k or 3k, but it should in principle. The DDS chips are not 'exact', and if you need to know your VFO frequency to better than 1 Hz, then you need to know how much the DTW (Digital Tuning Word) is truncated. For the Flex-1500, the error can be between -0.004 to -0.042 Hz. Then there is the analog to digital sample rate correction that may also need to be made. For the Flex-1500 this is controlled by another crystal oscillator, which is not referenced to the external 10 MHz oscillator. I plan to write all of this up into some Wiki technical notes (with everyone's help, of course). Finally, to answer Jim's question below; Given all of the settings in my first paragraph above, when I 'receive' my 10 MHz Rb oscillator signal, I measure a 600.042 Hz audio tone at the Phones jack. John Stuart, KM6QX Lafayette, CA -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Tim Ellison Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:07 PM To: jim; 'Jeff Singer'; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] [Bulk] FMT Results Close, but it may not be exactly a 0 DDS offset. My 5000 needs -2 and my 1500 needs +3 to be dead on frequency with a Rb clock. -Tim -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of jim Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:55 PM To: 'Jeff Singer'; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] [Bulk] FMT Results A related, dumb, question... If one takes a 10Mhz standard and uses it for the signal as well as the local reference, should the DDS offset be 0 ? Jim W4YXU ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Measuring Test tomorrow
Results are out at www.k5cm.com . From my limited experience, the K5CM FMTs attract the real experts. Competition is a bit easier in the ARRL events. Another nice showing by the Flex contingent. Jeff K0OD ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Measuring Test tomorrow
Yes, a nice Flex showing, except for my own 14 Hz error. Recalculated this morning and get only 158 mHz error on the 160 run. NOT my Flex 5000a's fault - must have been the pencil I used (had trouble with them in elementary school, too, IIRC). Connie doesn't give Mulligans, darn it. Jerry W4UK At 11:54 AM 1/23/2011, Jeff Singer wrote: Results are out at www.k5cm.com . From my limited experience, the K5CM FMTs attract the real experts. Competition is a bit easier in the ARRL events. Another nice showing by the Flex contingent. Jeff K0OD ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Measuring Test tomorrow
I used only the Flex-5000 and its scope no fancy outboard frequency standard or software. Several signals seemed quite spongy probably due to Doppler. I had little confidence in any of my readings, which was quite frustrating. I didn't get home from work in time for the two 20 meter runs. On those I submitted, my error was +0.188, -0.318, and -0.328 Hz . I didn't submit a 40 meter report because W6OQI's signals were at noise level here and I didn't believe the 7057000.0 I was getting. Turned out that was about right. Once again the Flex has proven to be well within specs on every frequency. One new thing I did this time to improve my results was to calibrate the 5000 with the nearest WWV/CHU transmission between band changes. Calibration takes just a few seconds. Jeff K0OD ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Measuring Test tomorrow
The only contests I like are the FMTs. Unfortunately I was busy moving my parents into assisted living last week. No opportunity to get ready for the FMT or time to actually participate. sigh I didn't get home until it was all over. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.931.492.6776 (USA) (+1.931.4.WB6RQN) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Measuring Test coming up
Hi Dan Check out some of the links available from http://www.k5cm.com/ . Some tips there on using simple equipment as well as some of the aids like spectrum lab. I just tune USB below the unknown freq and use FLDIGI to measure the audio tone then process FLDIGI's output csv file through excel to get an average. The 5000a's DDS can only be trusted to 50-100 millihertz, but this is still pretty good. Check out free FLDIGI and get it working and calibrated, then measure WWV and CHU to see how well you can do. I would bet you will be surprised. GL in the FMT. Wish I was there :-( Jerry W4UK At 12:33 PM 11/7/2010, you wrote: Hi Jerry... I have an external 10 Mhz reference pulled from cellular service, and donated to me by a friendI'm not sure how good it is, but it seems to yank my F5K about 600+ Hz to where it thinks it ought to be, so something must be working right. When I zero beat WWV, I can listen to SSB and detect NO warble so I know my Flex is real close, but that is Hz accuracy, not milliHertz. I have read some of the emails about prior FMT's, and they are bit technically over my headis there a white paper which describes technique to use Flex + freq ref to do high accuracy measurements? FMT For Dummies? I'm sure it involves more than a simple zero beat and use of one's ears? Tnx es 73 Dan K0DAN - Original Message - From: Jerry Flanders jefland...@comcast.net To: Flex Radio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Measuring Test coming up Warm up your FlexRadios and participate in next week's ARRL FMT. Details at http://www.arrl.org/frequency-measuring-test . Those of us using the 5000a in FMTs have discovered it often does _very_ well, often within millihertz. Several have high-precision GPSDO10MHz reference oscillators and are capable of high precision, but these are not necessary if you calibrate against WWV, etc just before the test. FLDIGI is an excellent aid to pin down that last tenth of a Hertz. Unfortunately I will not be able to participate in this one - my 5000a has decided to take a vacation trip to Austin to get the firmware unlocked. Don't forget to post your results afterward and mention your radio. Jerry W4UK ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Off?
I am working on getting those questions answered from the source. -Tim --- W4TME FlexRadio Systems - Info Management Admin. Tune in Excitement On 10/29/2009 10:19 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: I've used the F5K with an external reference and can verify that it works; you can see WWV's carrier jump when you plug and unplug the external reference. However, perhaps Tim could verify something for the time-nuts amongst us: is the clock for the ADC locked to the same reference as the DDSs, or is it free running? If a free-running crystal feeds the ADC/DAC clocks, there is going to be a frequency error due to that, even if an external reference is used. It's likely to be small(1) and it will not scale with frequency(2). (And just to answer a question that's likely to be asked, the crystal in the PC does *not* contribute any error since the PC isn't doing any analog processing.) John (1) Assuming the ADC/DAC are configured like a typical sound card, the clock crystal is running at something between 10 and 30 MHz, and is effectively divided down to the sample rate by the ADC/DAC chips. That division both reduces frequency offset and drift, and improves phase noise. The couple of Delta 44 cards Ive looked at had a clocking error of less than 1 Hertz, and were quite stable when the computer they were housed in was at a stable operating temperature. (2) Since the ADC/DAC are at baseband, the clock doesn't go through any multiplication related to the operating frequency. Any offset is a simple additive error that applies equally at all RF frequencies. Mark Whatley wrote: I was going to ask a question here today and was surprised to find that it was answered (I think) before I asked it! You guys are good! I was going to ask if I connect my Z3801's 10 MHz output to my F5K will the Flex inherit the same accuracy as the standard? I think the Stu might have answered that in his post but thought I would ask anyway. Seems like I have seen other radios that allow external references but they also have some oscillator along the way that is not locked to the reference - like a BFO oscillator - which spoils the overall accuracy. ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to t...@flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency change by 'slidingacrosspanadapter'
Amen Brother! I can second that as a long-time RF engineering ATE systems development engineer/manager. One 2-plus hour conversation with Gerald last year at Central States VHF convinced me that he and his team have their collective stuff in one sock and that they don't do anything that isn't the most appropriate solution for the design/economic challenge at hand. That's why I'm using a FLEX-5000A as the centerpiece of a new 10-band 6m to 3cm VHF/UHF/uW station - replacing all of my single-band riceboxes, etc. I'm looking forward to the fun of using it! 73, Dan KB5MY/6 DM13nc I, myself, am getting a bit weary of this thread. As a retired electronic engineer with over 15 years of circuit design and 25 years of software development under my belt, I know from personal experience that in any design situation there are often 2 or more methods of solving the same problem, all of which are perfectly legitimate. There is no one perfect solution. Each method has its own advantages, and has its own warts. The mark of any good design engineer is the ability to deduce the optimum solution for any given problem, taking into account ALL factors, including economic business factors. Unless we were a party to all of the design discussions experiments which led to the choosing of firewire over the other available technologies, we cannot fully understand the reasons why firewire was chosen. Gerald has stated that all of the technologies discussed in this thread were investigated and firewire was found to be the only one that fully supported the data transfer rates required by the FLEX-5000 (and now the FLEX-3000). To state otherwise is to consider him to be less than truthful, or to be a poor engineer. Personally, I have implicit faith in his engineering judgement. Gerald has provided us with an outstanding communications system, a true advancement of the radio art. Obviously he is an engineering genius, and not a bad businessman either. One more thought on the choice of technologies. Each of the technologies discussed may be theoretically capable of the data transfer rates required. However, these technologies do not operate in a vacuum. They are part of an overall system consisting of the radio hardware/firmware, the computer hardware, the operating system, and the radio software. Realize that Gerald has no control over 2 of these 4 pieces. Most of my software development was for PC-based real-time process control systems. Trust me, neither the Windows operating systems nor the PC were ever designed to optimize real-time processing of high-speed data streams. All of this adds to the complexity of the decision that was made. The FlexRadio Systems series of software-defined radios are marvelous additions to our hobby. Enjoy! 73, Ray, K9DUR ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency change by sliding across panadapter
I had a similar problem with the pan adapter and cleared it by resetting the database, down side was having to reenter all my configuration. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 2:05 PM, NZ8J n...@woh.rr.com wrote: Wasn't really sure how to title this. Up until a day or so ago I was able to smoothly change the freq on my Flex 5K (1.18.0) by left clicking and holding while sliding across the panadapter. Now all of a sudden it will slide part way and then hang up. If I let up on the mouse and click again I can continue fine. I haven't changed anything that I can recall. Changing the freq this way on Betty works fine, no problems. The CPU usage is down around 10% to 15%. It doesn't change when the slider hangs up. Any suggestions? Thanks Tim NZ8J ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ -- 73's N7BCP ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency change by sliding across panadapter
Although I do not know if this was related to your specific problem or not, with a new database, Spur Reduction is on by default. Also having a high frame rate for re-drawing the Panadapter can cause the same symptoms too. -Tim -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Larry da Ponte Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:08 PM To: NZ8J Cc: flexra...@flex-radio. Biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency change by sliding across panadapter I had a similar problem with the pan adapter and cleared it by resetting the database, down side was having to reenter all my configuration. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 2:05 PM, NZ8J n...@woh.rr.com wrote: Wasn't really sure how to title this. Up until a day or so ago I was able to smoothly change the freq on my Flex 5K (1.18.0) by left clicking and holding while sliding across the panadapter. Now all of a sudden it will slide part way and then hang up. If I let up on the mouse and click again I can continue fine. I haven't changed anything that I can recall. Changing the freq this way on Betty works fine, no problems. The CPU usage is down around 10% to 15%. It doesn't change when the slider hangs up. Any suggestions? Thanks Tim NZ8J ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ -- 73's N7BCP ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency display
i should be able to answer this one but someone should verify it. click the XVTR's button and assign button zero to the parameters you want and LO offset if you know itdon't click xvtr rf tx at the end. Then click VHF button front panel to find your created band. make sure under general you unclick 100w PA presentconnect the txvr to the main HF bnc. Paul vk3ddu I fear that this is a question I should know the answer to, or is in the manual somewhere, but... I have a SDR1000 without 100 watt PA. I want to use the HF output at 28-30MHz to drive a transverter. But I want to change the display frequency to show the transverted frequency. So, using a 70MHz transverter, I want to transmit on 28.2MHz but have the display show 70.2MHz. How do I do it? 73 David, G4YTL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency display
I knew the answer would be that I was doing something stupid!!! I had clicked the xvtr rf tx and that prevented it doing what I wanted it to do! Many thanks Paul David Paul Radge pra...@tpg.com.au 21/04/2009 11:33 i should be able to answer this one but someone should verify it. click the XVTR's button and assign button zero to the parameters you want and LO offset if you know itdon't click xvtr rf tx at the end. Then click VHF button front panel to find your created band. make sure under general you unclick 100w PA presentconnect the txvr to the main HF bnc. Paul vk3ddu I fear that this is a question I should know the answer to, or is in the manual somewhere, but... I have a SDR1000 without 100 watt PA. I want to use the HF output at 28-30MHz to drive a transverter. But I want to change the display frequency to show the transverted frequency. So, using a 70MHz transverter, I want to transmit on 28.2MHz but have the display show 70.2MHz. How do I do it? 73 David, G4YTL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency tuning stops working
Clay, Double check the firmware in the General tab. You should have firmware 1.3.0.0 loaded to work with PowerSDR 1.16.1. Next check the buffer in the FireWire driver (3.2.0.1556) that's the blue Flex 5000 Icon on your desktop, you should have the buffer set to 2048 or maybe 1024. 512 is too low except for the very fastest machine, but the buffer should be the same as the buffer in the Audio tab of the Setup menu, or multiples of 512, other wise there are extra data that has to be taken care of.This should help. 73, Dudley WA5QPZ W7CE wrote: I just received my Flex-5000A today. I hooked it up and all looked good for a while. Then I was unable to change frequency. The frequency display changes, but the panadapter doesn't move. It appears that PowerSDR thinks it changed frequency, but the 5000 didn't respond. Only solution I've found so far is to power-cycle the box and start again. Unfortunately, this is happening within a few seconds to a few minutes of every restart. I'm using PowerSDR 1.16.1 and installed the drivers that came on the included CD. I already had PowerSDR loaded and had been using it with a SoftRock receiver with no problems. Any ideas? Thanks, Clay W7CE ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency tuning stops working
I'm thinking your existing softrock install may not see the 5000A correctly. Just install Power SDR in a new directory like C:\Power-Flex. I just brought mine on line last night with XP and Vista32 without issue using a dual boot setup. Cliff AB2ZS --- On Mon, 1/19/09, W7CE w...@curtiss.net wrote: From: W7CE w...@curtiss.net Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency tuning stops working To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 5:40 PM I just received my Flex-5000A today. I hooked it up and all looked good for a while. Then I was unable to change frequency. The frequency display changes, but the panadapter doesn't move. It appears that PowerSDR thinks it changed frequency, but the 5000 didn't respond. Only solution I've found so far is to power-cycle the box and start again. Unfortunately, this is happening within a few seconds to a few minutes of every restart. I'm using PowerSDR 1.16.1 and installed the drivers that came on the included CD. I already had PowerSDR loaded and had been using it with a SoftRock receiver with no problems. Any ideas? Thanks, Clay W7CE ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Question
Don, I think that you covered up the Window that says where the recording was stored in, you have to say OK to it, you were tuning, so it went behind the PowerSDR console, as long as that splash window was setting there with the OK on it, you would not be able to tune the radio.. This is so that it doesn't suddenly jump frequency as you finish recording, which might leave you wondering where you were.. 73, Dudley Don wrote: I just found another issue. I am using 1.10.4 PSDR and after I record for a while and stop the recording I can not change the frequency. I can change the frequency in VFO A and I can change the frequency on the panadaptor, however, the actual signal will not change. I was recording a signal on 3.865 lsb. I then clicked the record button a second time in the WAVE window so it was no longer highlighted and thus no longer recording. I then tried to change frequency and was all the way up to 3.944 yet I was still hearing the qso on 3.865. I even used the AB button where the b vfo was set to 7.223 and I was still hearing the signal on 3.865. Only when I actually change bands did the problem go away. Don - kx9q Don wrote: I am using SVN2129 and I am trying to understand the frequency being displayed in MixW and HRD/DM780. I have the RTTY offset disabled and the frequency in VFO A is set to 7.10 and mode is DIGU - in this case for psk. The display on Mixw shows 7097.8 when it should show 7100 since that is the displayed frequency on the F5K and the red line indicates the same on the panadapter. I have to go into mixw pttcat and set the digi cat correction to a -2210hz for the digi offset (actually any mode offset) then the frequency display indicates the correct frequency which doesn't make a lot of sense. For rtty using digl I have to remove the cat offset in mixw in order to get a correct frequency readout on mixw when RTTY offset is enabled for 2125 in digl. HRD/DM780 indicates the correct frequency when operating psk - 710 matching the VFO A on the F5K and when I enable the RTTY offset at 2125 the display on HRD reads 7102125 as long as the mode is set to digu which is what I would expect since rtty on HRD/DM780 is done is usb mode, however, the frequency display in DM780 now starts at 7102125. Don - kx9q ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ -- 73, Dudley WA5QPZ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency for CW and SSB
Well, here is my 2 cents. It may be a nuisance in general operating but its a must for weak signal microwaves as well as DXing. If its a problem for mixed mode, its because everyone has differnt radios or set ups are different. If everyone had CWU and USB or CWL and LSB then it would normally alway be ok. A perfect example was yesterday afternoon. 6 Meters was open to the east coast to the Caribbean, but here in the midwest, the DX was coming in very weakly and had lots of QSB. I spent considerable time watching a station and calling him on SSB. Most guys were calling on SSB, a few were calling on CW. The ones calling on CW were not being responded to by the DX. Why you ask? Did the DX not want to work cw? Nope, all the CW was outside of the SSB passband. Easy to see on the SDR-1000 bandscope. It was obvious that the DX was not even hearing the CW. These were stations with rigs that did not have the CW freq offset function when switching between SSB to CW. i.e. you would have to retune in order to hear it. With no luck on SSB, I gave one call on CW. DXCC #77 on 6M! He came back to me on SSB without retuning to hear my signal. We worked cross mode with no effort. I just laughed when I saw other guys again calling on CW, just outside of the lower end of the SSB passband...I tuned away know that the funtion does what it is intended to do. A few other rigs do it correctly. Typically the Yaesus do just fine. The Icoms did not until the Pro II I believe, and then yet you had to set it up that way. They would have CW on the LSB side when you were on a band that utilized USB. Other examples from the microwaves and weak signal work, we would try to work on SSB and say the signals QSBed out. You knew the guy was there, so we typically switch to CW. The guys with yaesus driving their transverters or whatever would pop out right where you needed them to be without tuning. I can recall many times loosing guys who I knew were running Icom 706s, etc. The fact of retuning to find a weak signal was normally a loss of a possible contact. This is why I ran Yaesu radios for my VHF and microwaves IFser...uh.until the SDR-1000 came along of course :) Again, my 2 cents. 73 Mike - KM0T - Original Message - From: Bernhard Hailer, DL4MHK/AE6YN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlexRadio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 10:16 PM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency for CW and SSB Hello, question regarding PowerSDR: when you switch from USB to CWU, PowerSDR adds the side tone frequency to the currently used frequency; e.g. you operate USB at 21.4000 MHz and your side tone is 600 Hz, your new frequency is 21.4006 once you switch to CW. This may be logical, but it is a nuisance if you operate mixed mode: I'm practicing CW with some local hams here, and I have always to correct the frequency when we have a final SSB chat after our practicing. Is there a purpose behind this scheme? Is it configurable anywhere? I haven't seen this with other radios... Thanks! Bernhard, AE6YN ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency for CW and SSB
Bernhard Hailer, DL4MHK/AE6YN wrote: I like however Frank's suggestion of making it configurable. It's just software... :-) The suggestion was a bit of a tweak at Eric, KE5DTO. Solving this task transparently and with complete generality requires a forward-chaining inference engine -- in short, a Prolog interpreter embedded in the console. It may yet come to that, but he has his hands full with more down-to-earth issues right now, I'm sure. 73 Frank AB2KT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency for CW and SSB
Frank I think the logical argument is/was: You use the sideband appropriate for the band when calling CQ on SSB. If someone replies using CW on the same sideband at least you may hear him and, if you still know Morse, only have to push one button to answer on CW. It is probably less of a deal if you are using a panadapter under the right conditions but many stations don't have (or know how to use) panadapters and simply don't hear weak stations using opposite sideband CW. Of course, all this will become irrelevant as the 'dumbing down' continues and Morse Code (and those who still know it) fade to black. Phil, K3IB - Original Message - From: Frank Brickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernhard Hailer, DL4MHK/AE6YN [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 7/14/07, Bernhard Hailer, DL4MHK/AE6YN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a purpose behind this scheme? Is it configurable anywhere? I haven't seen this with other radios... My Yaesu radios do this, sort of...the idea being that you can switch back and forth between modes on the same nominal frequency and be tuned properly for each mode. It's a semi-convenience. I only ever use LSB-side insertion on CW so the Yaesus are always wrong. (It seems downright counterintuitive for the audio frequency of a CW signal to go *down* as you tune *up*, which is what you get with USB-side insertion.) What there really needs to be is a configurable table of offsets from the nominal frequency for each mode. 73 Frank AB2KT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency for CW and SSB
Philip M. Lanese wrote: I think the logical argument is/was: You use the sideband appropriate for the band when calling CQ on SSB. If someone replies using CW on the same sideband at least you may hear him and, if you still know Morse, only have to push one button to answer on CW. Yes, for sure. I'm merely thinking how easy it would be to make the freq offset table a transition table (move from USB to CWL and keep the signal in the passband) with simple rules for each of the transitions. It's only software, after all :-) Of course, all this will become irrelevant as the 'dumbing down' continues and Morse Code (and those who still know it) fade to black. FWIW I'm hearing *more* CW these days rather than less. Even on 80 meters this summer, which I can't remember being the case in years. Maybe it's only a temporary phenomenon, but it's definitely fun lately. Had a QSO on 80 the other night with a young(!) guy who'd just acquired an ARC-5 and was first putting it on the air. Sounded like he had a rubber crystal. Copying him was like trying to stay on a bucking horse. What a blast. 73 Frank AB2KT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency for CW and SSB
Frank, As to the CW, I agree. I head up one of the two VE teams in our area. More more of our no-code Techs are upgrading to General and then getting on CW. 73, Ray, K9DUR ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency for CW and SSB
On 7/14/07, Bernhard Hailer, DL4MHK/AE6YN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a purpose behind this scheme? Is it configurable anywhere? I haven't seen this with other radios... My Yaesu radios do this, sort of...the idea being that you can switch back and forth between modes on the same nominal frequency and be tuned properly for each mode. It's a semi-convenience. I only ever use LSB-side insertion on CW so the Yaesus are always wrong. (It seems downright counterintuitive for the audio frequency of a CW signal to go *down* as you tune *up*, which is what you get with USB-side insertion.) What there really needs to be is a configurable table of offsets from the nominal frequency for each mode. 73 Frank AB2KT -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070715/c2e1be0f/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency problem with new bought SDR-1000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello to all. I'm new with the SDR and a think there is a problem. Equipment: SDR-100 + ATU + 100W PA + 2m XVTR When i check the receive frequency it changes from time to time. The difference to a reference transceiver is up to -120kHz and it's not possible to calibrate over this wide range. Please have anyone an idea what's going wrong 73 de OE8CCQ / Hans-Peter I had a similar problem. I was traced to a bad 200 Mhz reference oscillator, it was jumping in frequency at start up. -- 73 de Ignacio, EB4APL ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration
Yes, ageing is the fastest te fist few month of the life of the Xtal See as an example http://www.golledge.com/pdf/products/xtl_ld/hc49.pdf https://netmail.hetnet.nl/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.golledge.com/pdf/products/xtl_ld/hc49.pdf Calibration 30ppm (standard) Ageing 3ppm max first year 73 groeten Peter petervn(a)hetnet.nl mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070529/8172a7de/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration
Mine started in the -150 range and 6 months later, is -2680 and continuing lower. Maybe this is Flex's way to make money in the after market selling replacement crystal oscillators. You can always buy a Bliley OCXO for $400. Bob W6TR - Original Message - From: Frank Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration I have had my SDR-1000 since December. When I first got the clock offset was set to about +100 for accurate calibration. Since then it has been steadily needed to be reset to a lower value. It is at -1300 now. Could the problem be the crystal going bad? Frank WA3JBT. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070528/806efac5/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration
Frank .. all crystals change frequency with age. The change should be less and less with time and in the same direction, until it settles down. I would say that what you are seeing is quite normal. If you want to worry about something consider if the air filter catching enough dust! The real question is, is your SDR-1000 on frequency after calibration? --Larry W8ER Frank Mayer wrote: I have had my SDR-1000 since December. When I first got the clock offset was set to about +100 for accurate calibration. Since then it has been steadily needed to be reset to a lower value. It is at -1300 now. Could the problem be the crystal going bad? Frank WA3JBT. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070528/806efac5/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration
As the xtal gets older the shift should become less and less (more stable) give it an extra calibration. I do not know the percentage of the shift, but can be normal for new xtals. 73 groeten Peter petervn(a)hetnet.nl mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Bob Maser Verzonden: ma 28-5-2007 23:06 Aan: Frank Mayer; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration Mine started in the -150 range and 6 months later, is -2680 and continuing lower. Maybe this is Flex's way to make money in the after market selling replacement crystal oscillators. You can always buy a Bliley OCXO for $400. Bob W6TR - Original Message - From: Frank Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration I have had my SDR-1000 since December. When I first got the clock offset was set to about +100 for accurate calibration. Since then it has been steadily needed to be reset to a lower value. It is at -1300 now. Could the problem be the crystal going bad? Frank WA3JBT. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070528/806efac5/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070528/864fb9de/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration
Thanks for the tip! - Original Message - From: Bob Maser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Frank Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration Mine started in the -150 range and 6 months later, is -2680 and continuing lower. Maybe this is Flex's way to make money in the after market selling replacement crystal oscillators. You can always buy a Bliley OCXO for $400. Bob W6TR - Original Message - From: Frank Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration I have had my SDR-1000 since December. When I first got the clock offset was set to about +100 for accurate calibration. Since then it has been steadily needed to be reset to a lower value. It is at -1300 now. Could the problem be the crystal going bad? Frank WA3JBT. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20 070528/806efac5/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/821 - Release Date: 5/27/2007 3:05 PM ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration
At 02:06 PM 5/28/2007, Bob Maser wrote: Mine started in the -150 range and 6 months later, is -2680 and continuing lower. Maybe this is Flex's way to make money in the after market selling replacement crystal oscillators. Surely you jest. Actually, the beauty of the SDR1000 is that you don't much care what the frequency is, because aging can be compensated in software (as you've noted). All crystal oscillators have tradeoffs among aging, spectral purity, and temperature stability. The ability to compensate the change in software means you can spec an oscillator with outstanding spectral purity (low phase noise), and not have to pay an arm and a leg to try and solve it in hardware (ovens, careful selection of capacitor tempcos, etc.) You can always buy a Bliley OCXO for $400. You can do it for less money ($200-250 for a Streamline OCXO from Wenzel, for instance, $50 for used HP10811s, less if you pull them out of dead test equipment), but even that OCXO has a trimmer adjust to compensate for aging. On modern test equipment, that's probably one of the few adjustments that needs to get made (and, for modern equipment, it's a software adjustment, just like the SDR1000)) Heck, you can build your own little oven for the Vectron part on the SDR1000 board (that's essentially what the thermistor mod is). Part of the expense, though, is that the mfr has already run the crystal for a while to get past the really steep part of the aging curve, and that costs money. Essentially, you're buying an oscillator that already has 1000 or more hours on it. Bob W6TR - Original Message - From: Frank Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration I have had my SDR-1000 since December. When I first got the clock offset was set to about +100 for accurate calibration. Since then it has been steadily needed to be reset to a lower value. It is at -1300 now. Could the problem be the crystal going bad? Frank WA3JBT. Jim,W6RMK ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration Problem
I encountered exactly this problem years ago when using a $50,000 high-end spectrum analyzer (at least it was back then - HP 8560 series) to automatically characterize a wideband free-running VCO's tuning range, tuning slope, harmonics, etc. across its entire tuning range (before the days of the fancy VCO testers and signal source analyzers). The specan has a limited number of display points, and the wider the span and resolution bandwidth (RBW) got, the less accurate the frequency readings were (the 8560 series has a real built-in freq counter). The trick was to start with a 100 MHz span centered near the expected tune freq and a mid-range resolution bandwidth (1 MHz or so) to get a fast sweep, peak search to find the center of the hump, marker to center freq, narrow the span and RBW, repeat the peak search centering routine, then keep narrowing and centering until the span was as narrow as a 1 Hz RBW would let me go. With the final peak in the display center, and the marker set on top, the 8560's counter was used to accurately read the frequency. This became the reference point for all the other measurements. Takes forever, but it was accurate. Why didn't I just use a stand-alone counter to make it go faster? Well, I had to do all that stuff to set the fundamental freq marker accurately in order to measure all the other parameters, anyway. This technique could be used in PowerSDR to improve frequency calibration accuracy, although I suspect it might be a wee bit faster than what I had to do since our calibration frequency is known and we shouldn't be that far off to start with. The limitation with the SDR-1000 will be LO cleanliness and stability. It's hard to use a 1Hz or 10Hz RBW with a slightly rough LO (spurs and temperature stability). 73, Dan KB5MY/6 DM13nc It's definitely not just your problem. The display code changed in the latest versions to enable the zoom/pan features that came along with the wider display. Because of this, we have to use a more flexible manner of converting a pixel on the display to a frequency. Unfortunately the resolution of these pixels is very poor. Consider that when running 96kHz on the 1x zoom, the display is showing 40kHz of data. This data is spread over 704 pixels. This means that each pixel represents 40,000 / 704 = 56Hz. What this means is that the accuracy of those frequency readouts is only going to be ~56Hz in that setting. It gets worse when you go to 192kHz and zoom out further than 1x. The long and short of it is that this needs to be reworked in the code to be calculated more accurately. I'm not sure how we will do this, but I'm sure we can improve on the current situation. Eric Wachsmann FlexRadio Systems -Original Message- From: Larry W8ER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:20 PM To: FlexRadio - Eric; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Frequency Calibration Problem I have three versions of Power SDR available. They are PowerSDR 1.6.3 (with K6JCA mods), PowerSDR 1.8.0, and PowerSDR latest SVN. There are three groups of numbers below the panadapter. First is hz deviation of the frequency of the strongest signal in the filter passband. Second is that signal's strenght in dbm. Third is the frequency of the strongest signal in the filter passband. I start PowerSDR 1.6.3 and tune the receiver to WWV (15 mhz). Going to the setup/calibration tab, I put 15.000.000 in the Frequency calibration Window and hit calibrate. The main screen comes back and shows me [0.0 Hz -73dBm 15.000.000 Mhz]. This is what I would expect it to show. I start PowerSDR 1.8.0 and do the same thing. Now the display gives me [-20.2 Hz -73dBm 14.999.980 Mhz]. It appear to be telling me that WWV is 20 Hz low. The same is true of the latest SVN code. I have tried reloading the program. I did not import the database but started with a new database and fresh calibration each time. Each of the PowerSDR versions is in it's own directory with it's own database. I have checked the KB. I have checked the reflector and seem to find nothing on it so it seems to be only my problem. Any ideas??? --Larry W8ER ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency error
David Blaschke wrote: I used the SDR-1000 exclusively during the EME contest. I found one troubling fault: Often after restarting the radio, I would set the frequency to 144.129, only to find that it was really transmitting on 144.141. I had to restart the radio to clear this problem. It is unpredictable when this will happen, but if I get the radio started and it is finally transmitting on the shown frequency, it will stay there for the duration. This happens with both Version. 1.6.2 and 1.6.3. I have now made a habit, now to take the frequency counter and place it near the amplifier to assure that I am on the correct frequency whenever I have restarted the radio. If anyone has any ideas on this problem, and its fix - please email me directly also as well as this reflector. Dave, W5UN Home Page: http://web.wt.net/~w5un/ Dave, I used to have a persistent frequency accuracy issue on my SDR 1000. It started on (at least) two distinct frequency offsets. After realizing what the problem was (but not the failure mechanism), I used on each power on first to tune to a MW broadcast station: if it was off frequency, I cycled power off and on until the carrier appeared where it should be. It was not drift, just a percentual jump in frequency. Also I noticed sudden phase jumps when receiving wefax stations without any reasonable explanation for it. Since it pointed to a problem in the oscillator and I had not any suitable means of checking its stabulity, I temporarly replaced it by a recycled 50 Mhz computer clock module and adjusted the DDS multiplier acordingly. This confirmed the oscillator as the cause of the problem. I replaced it (50 bucks) and both problems are gone. I think mine is not the only faulty oscillator found, and maybe this is not your case. -- 73 de Ignacio, EB4APL ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency error
EB4APL escribió: David Blaschke wrote: I used the SDR-1000 exclusively during the EME contest. I found one troubling fault: Often after restarting the radio, I would set the frequency to 144.129, only to find that it was really transmitting on 144.141. I had to restart the radio to clear this problem. It is unpredictable when this will happen, but if I get the radio started and it is finally transmitting on the shown frequency, it will stay there for the duration. This happens with both Version. 1.6.2 and 1.6.3. I have now made a habit, now to take the frequency counter and place it near the amplifier to assure that I am on the correct frequency whenever I have restarted the radio. If anyone has any ideas on this problem, and its fix - please email me directly also as well as this reflector. Dave, W5UN Home Page: http://web.wt.net/~w5un/ Dave, I used to have a persistent frequency accuracy issue on my SDR 1000. It started on (at least) two distinct frequency offsets. After realizing what the problem was (but not the failure mechanism), I used on each power on first to tune to a MW broadcast station: if it was off frequency, I cycled power off and on until the carrier appeared where it should be. It was not drift, just a percentual jump in frequency. Also I noticed sudden phase jumps when receiving wefax stations without any reasonable explanation for it. Since it pointed to a problem in the oscillator and I had not any suitable means of checking its stabulity, I temporarly replaced it by a recycled 50 Mhz computer clock module and adjusted the DDS multiplier acordingly. This confirmed the oscillator as the cause of the problem. I replaced it (50 bucks) and both problems are gone. I think mine is not the only faulty oscillator found, and maybe this is not your case. Hi, I have found a table with some measurements I made when I was troubleshooting this issue. Since the cause of the frequency jump is unknow to me it cannot be applied to other failures, but it can ilustrate the symptoms. /VFO Real freq. Ratio 0.585 0.5829391.0035355328773679578823856355468 5.9 5.8790441.0035645251166686284368683071601 7.115 7.0897281.0035645937333562020997138395154 10.0 9.96447 1.0035656688213221576260453390898 19.119.9287631.00357016639718180200145889637 Since the ratio is constant, disregarding the measurement errors, it looks like the oscillator sometimes starts on 199.2885 instead of 200.0 Mhz, who knows why. / Yes, the cause was the oscillator. 73 de Ignacio, EB4APL -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20061116/ec5665f4/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency calibration, measurement of unknowns with SDR1000Re: Question regarding commercial AM broadcasters' carrieraccuracy
Mike, Thanks! I figured there must be at least one station engineer on the list! Mark -Original Message- From: Mike Naruta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 1:42 PM To: Jim Lux Cc: Eric Wachsmann; 'Mark Amos'; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency calibration, measurement of unknowns with SDR1000Re: Question regarding commercial AM broadcasters' carrieraccuracy When I was chiefing, I think the AM tolerance was 20 Hertz. To tweak it, I would have to shut down a transmitter, open the door, and adjust the trimmer. They did not like me taking the station down, or switching to the auxiliary transmitter, so I just checked frequency occasionally. We also had quarterly, third party measurements, just to be sure that we complied. Let's see, 20 Hertz off at 1000 KHz is 200 Hertz off at 10 MHz. You're better off using WWV. They're fastidious about frequency. Mike - AA8K Jim Lux wrote: At 01:30 PM 11/6/2006, Eric Wachsmann wrote: For AM broadcast stations, something like a 10 MHz oscillator divided down to make a 25 kHz marker generator might work well. You'd be able to capture the BC station of interest, as well as more than one marker, in the same recording bandwidth. ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's
It is on the Flex support page http://support.flex-radio.com The Bug Tracker is : http://support.flex-radio.com/NewIssue.aspx?it=b (you have to log in with an account first to access the Bug Tracker) -Tim --- Integrated Technical Services Too much of everything is just enough. -Bob Barlow -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Hansen Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:52 AM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's I noticed that the frequency calibration was off on a couple of the recent SVN's (WWV at 10 MHz was about 20 Hertz low). So I tried to run the frequency calibration routine. When I do this I get a pop message box that says, Peak is Outside Valid Range. I don't have this problem with 1.6.2. I know there is a proper place to report bugs and I know this newsgroup isn't it, but I'm not sure where the proper place is. John W2FS ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's
I've noticed that the software does not cal wwv properly for some time now, On my radio it is always been down the band some. There is an absolute no fail method of calibrating wwv that I've found through the help of some of my buds. I use double sideband to manually calibrate and it's a completely fool proof, dead nuts on the money everytime tuneup. On my rig I can barely even understand wwv until it's very close to being on the money. That's the methid I use. - Original Message - From: John Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:51 AM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's I noticed that the frequency calibration was off on a couple of the recent SVN's (WWV at 10 MHz was about 20 Hertz low). So I tried to run the frequency calibration routine. When I do this I get a pop message box that says, Peak is Outside Valid Range. I don't have this problem with 1.6.2. I know there is a proper place to report bugs and I know this newsgroup isn't it, but I'm not sure where the proper place is. John W2FS ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006 ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's
Just to add to Jimmy's comments. After allowing the SDR-1k to warm up for hours, I tried the DSB method described here where you zero beat the constant tone with ticks (not just the ticks alone). After calibrating from wwv using 15.0 MHz, the DSB method indicated that the zero beat frequency was 14.95. This is easily done visually too by using the scope. When you are not on frequency, there are two separate waveforms on the scope. As you get closer to the zero beating the tone, it will appear as one waveform in the middle of the screen that doesn't jump around. Now the real question: is this a problem with the calibration routine of just an anomaly of using a frequency standard that is effected by atmospheric and solar factors? -Tim --- Integrated Technical Services Too much of everything is just enough. -Bob Barlow -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jimmy Jones Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:15 PM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's I've noticed that the software does not cal wwv properly for some time now, On my radio it is always been down the band some. There is an absolute no fail method of calibrating wwv that I've found through the help of some of my buds. I use double sideband to manually calibrate and it's a completely fool proof, dead nuts on the money everytime tuneup. On my rig I can barely even understand wwv until it's very close to being on the money. That's the methid I use. - Original Message - From: John Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:51 AM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's I noticed that the frequency calibration was off on a couple of the recent SVN's (WWV at 10 MHz was about 20 Hertz low). So I tried to run the frequency calibration routine. When I do this I get a pop message box that says, Peak is Outside Valid Range. I don't have this problem with 1.6.2. I know there is a proper place to report bugs and I know this newsgroup isn't it, but I'm not sure where the proper place is. John W2FS ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006 ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's
Exactly Another weird little thing I've noticed when tuning using DSB is in the phase display mode. According to which side of center your on the display will move in a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction. I think ideally it should be completely stopped and inthe middle of the display but my rig will not even come close to that. I love this little sdr though. - Original Message - From: Radio Station W5AMI [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Jimmy Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's On 9/10/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now the real question: is this a problem with the calibration routine of just an anomaly of using a frequency standard that is effected by atmospheric and solar factors? I have had problems before when the signal was not sufficient. I suspect a lot of QSB or in particular a lot of fluttering on the signal would drastically effect the ability for the calibration routine to work properly as well. I wonder if setting the rcve filter to a very narrow pass-band prior to running the calibration would help, hurt, or not matter at all. Without looking at the code, I haven't a clue. Eric; what actually happens there? What mode, filters, etc., are used during calibration? Are those parameters hard coded, or does it use the mode and filters the user has set? Brian / w5ami PS: I am still able to calibrate just fine with the current svn. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006 ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's
John, I have noticed/experienced the same thing. It has nothing to do with weak or fluttering signals. The 10 MHz WWV signal was very strong and steady and I get the error message, but not at 5 MHz or 15 MHz. Only on 10 MHz. 73 Joel W5ZN -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Hansen Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:42 PM Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's FWIW, I found that if I used the WWV signal at 15 MHz the calibration procedure appeared to work. If I try it at 10 MHz, I get the error referenced in my previous message. The 10 MHz value appears to be broken in the current SVN version. Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions. John W2FS ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Calibration on Recent SVN's
I use the Phase 1 display and SAM mode. Use the Freq Cal button to get close. On the Hardware Config tab you can use the up and down on the DDS Clock Offset to jump by tens until you get the pattern to rotate slowly clockwise and counter-clockwise. Then you can type in values in between to get it to stop. WWV is not drifting. At least not an amount that you would be able to measure. If you have the thermistor crystal heater stability mod, and your SDR-1000 has been on a while, you can get quite close. The instability left is probably from changes in propagation path, ignoring possible CPU clock and sound card clock drift. If you watch it for a while, you can get a feel for the propagation changes and have a pretty good inference for the actual frequency. When I got my SDR-1000, I wondered why anyone would ever need the phase display. Now I would miss it if it were gone. Mike - AA8K Jimmy Jones wrote: Exactly Another weird little thing I've noticed when tuning using DSB is in the phase display mode. According to which side of center your on the display will move in a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction. I think ideally it should be completely stopped and inthe middle of the display but my rig will not even come close to that. I love this little sdr though. ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Standard for Calibration of SDR-1000
WWV will work fine to calibrate the frequency. More importantly, you need a stable strong signal source for image calibration. You can use another rig's transmitter to do this though. Eric Wachsmann FlexRadio Systems -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] radio.biz] On Behalf Of Jon Maguire Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:28 PM To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Standard for Calibration of SDR-1000 I know that a preferred tool to align the rig is one of the Elecraft units. I'm anticipating a problem building the kit due to my arthritic hands. Are there any other reasonably priced options, such as a signal generator or other source of a stable frequency? Many thanks for any and all help. 73... Jon W1MNK Jon Maguire W1MNK Brandon, FL USA The four boxes of Democracy: Soap, Jury, Ballot and Cartridge -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/flexradio_flex- radio.biz/attachments/20060801/fbe50a4d/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency Standard for Calibration of SDR-1000
Jon, I fully understand about the arthritic hands. I do not have that problem, but normally use a lighted magnifier to help out the tri-focals (Hi..Hi). I find the Elecraft unit very useful for calibrating, not only for image rejection as Eric alluded to, but also for calibrating the S-Meter. I use the newer XG2 signal generator which has outputs on 3 bands (80m, 40m, 20m) instead of just one. I normally do the calibrating on 20m. The XG1 XG2 are not necessarily stable frequency sources, but are very accurate signal level sources (1 uV 50 uV). I generally tune to the highest frequency WWV signal I can hear reasonably well use that for the frequency calibration. If you would like to order one of the kits send it to me, I would be happy to assemble it ship it back to you. The kit only took me about 30 minutes. It could have been done more quickly, but I took my time to avoid mistakes. 73, Ray, K9DUR - Original Message - From: Jon Maguiremailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.bizmailto:FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency Standard for Calibration of SDR-1000 I know that a preferred tool to align the rig is one of the Elecraft units. I'm anticipating a problem building the kit due to my arthritic hands. Are there any other reasonably priced options, such as a signal generator or other source of a stable frequency? Many thanks for any and all help. 73... Jon W1MNK Jon Maguire W1MNK Brandon, FL USA The four boxes of Democracy: Soap, Jury, Ballot and Cartridge -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20060801/fbe50a4d/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.bizmailto:FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.bizhttp://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio@flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.comhttp://www.flex-radio.com/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20060801/b1d27e9f/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration
I'm not sure if this is documented but when I was first attempting to do frequency calibration after I built my Softrock40, I mistakenly centered the signal from my XG1 in the passband as opposed to centering it on the red line in the panadapter window -- this obviously produced the wrong result. Pete. N3EVL -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Wachsmann - FlexRadio Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:50 PM To: 'Jeff Griffin'; 'Reflector Flex-Radio' Subject: Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration Jeff, What version of the software are you using? I would recommend using v1.6.0 as the calibration routines were rewritten and are working better than ever now. There are still some small issues that we are looking into, but for the most part, v1.6.0 should be very steady on the calibrations. Eric Wachsmann FlexRadio Systems -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] radio.biz] On Behalf Of Jeff Griffin Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:00 AM To: Reflector Flex-Radio Subject: [Flexradio] frequency calibration Yesterday I received the SDR-1000 I purchased used. All is working fine on my 2gig p4 512 mb XP PRO machine. Only problem I'm having is getting the calibration routine to work properly. The best I can do on WWV is about 500 hz low. I tried several different WWV frequencies, but can do a much better job by ear. Plus or minus 50 hz. Is there any noted bugs with the Freq Cal routine? Or perhaps the sig just isn't strong enough, even though I'm not getting the weak sig warning? Boy what a time for the band's to be in poor shape, right when I get a new HF transciever 73 Jeff kb2m ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex- radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency on AM
One of the most helpful things (to me) that has come from this group has been the occassional well thought out treatise on we should do things this way My favorite examples are 1) Phil Harman's paper on agc which has led to a great improvement in that area (and will lead to more) and 2) the descriptions of what is needed to aid the audio processing given by the audio experts (W5GI, et. alia). This radio should be the very best AM transmitter period. If someone were to put together a paper like Phil's agc paper, where a concise description of the ideal was presented, it would be helpful. Bob Charles Greene wrote: Mike, Good tip. I reversed two phone plugs going into my Fire Box. Now I could zero the TX image when on AM. As measured on the spectrum analyzer, on AM, while transmitting into the dummy load, the image at 7.0785 Khz is 40 dB below the signal at 7.1 Mhz. Image down the same on CW. Settings on TX image reduction are phase -1 and gain 10. I redid the RX image reduction to be sure, and it came out a little different: phase -1.75 and gain 3.44. It sounds good now on SSB and AM. tnx, Chas, W1CG At 08:27 AM 2/1/2006, Mike WA8BXN wrote: I had a problem of transmitting two AM signals at the same time, one of the audio cables was not firmly seated in the SDR-1000. One of these days I ought to take it apart and enlarge the holes in the chassis so that is less likely to happen. If you just got one signal on 3.878 and little on 3.9, then it sounds like the left and right are reversed on audio going into the sdr-1000. 73 - Mike WA8BXN ---Original Message--- From: Charles Greene Date: 02/01/06 08:16:32 To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency on AM GM, I was trying to do some image reduction on the TX signal, and I set up a distant receiver and set the PowerSDR Console to AM. The transmitted signal was on 3.9 Mhz and the receiver read 3.878 KHz. On SSB and CW, signal frequency is right on. Tried another receiver, the same. Put on a spectrum analyzer and tried to reduce the image using phase and gain. Best I could get it was the primary signal was 15 dB down from the image with the phase control all the way to the left. Recalibrated RX level and image rejection. Settings were phase -1, gain 2.63. Set the TX phase and gain to those settings. Can't see the image signal on the spectrum analyzer. Evidently there is a problem on AM, not that I use it, but is it my set or does anyone else experience it? 73, Chas W1CG ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency on AM
I just used a knife and whittled away the plastic near the end of the plug. No interference on fit now. Mike - AA8K Mike WA8BXN wrote: I had a problem of transmitting two AM signals at the same time, one of the audio cables was not firmly seated in the SDR-1000. One of these days I ought to take it apart and enlarge the holes in the chassis so that is less likely to happen. If you just got one signal on 3.878 and little on 3.9, then it sounds like the left and right are reversed on audio going into the sdr-1000. 73 - Mike WA8BXN
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency on AM
Mike, Good tip. I reversed two phone plugs going into my Fire Box. Now I could zero the TX image when on AM. As measured on the spectrum analyzer, on AM, while transmitting into the dummy load, the image at 7.0785 Khz is 40 dB below the signal at 7.1 Mhz. Image down the same on CW. Settings on TX image reduction are phase -1 and gain 10. I redid the RX image reduction to be sure, and it came out a little different: phase -1.75 and gain 3.44. It sounds good now on SSB and AM. tnx, Chas, W1CG At 08:27 AM 2/1/2006, Mike WA8BXN wrote: I had a problem of transmitting two AM signals at the same time, one of the audio cables was not firmly seated in the SDR-1000. One of these days I ought to take it apart and enlarge the holes in the chassis so that is less likely to happen. If you just got one signal on 3.878 and little on 3.9, then it sounds like the left and right are reversed on audio going into the sdr-1000. 73 - Mike WA8BXN ---Original Message--- From: Charles Greene Date: 02/01/06 08:16:32 To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency on AM GM, I was trying to do some image reduction on the TX signal, and I set up a distant receiver and set the PowerSDR Console to AM. The transmitted signal was on 3.9 Mhz and the receiver read 3.878 KHz. On SSB and CW, signal frequency is right on. Tried another receiver, the same. Put on a spectrum analyzer and tried to reduce the image using phase and gain. Best I could get it was the primary signal was 15 dB down from the image with the phase control all the way to the left. Recalibrated RX level and image rejection. Settings were phase -1, gain 2.63. Set the TX phase and gain to those settings. Can't see the image signal on the spectrum analyzer. Evidently there is a problem on AM, not that I use it, but is it my set or does anyone else experience it? 73, Chas W1CG ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency
At 07:25 AM 1/29/2006, Jerry Harley wrote: I know this has been beaten to death but I never saw anyone say what they are experiencing. I had a big problem in the beginning it was off by 278kc, after the component change I'm off 200 and drift up to dead on in less than 15 minutes. From the 15 minute mark on I see no drifting. Jerry Wa2tti you're a quarter of a Megahertz off? Out of what frequency? Actually, no matter what, that's a huge error. I'd say you have a bad oscillator. ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com James Lux, P.E. Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group Flight Communications Systems Section Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 4800 Oak Grove Drive Pasadena CA 91109 tel: (818)354-2075 fax: (818)393-6875
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency
I'd made some measurements on my radio a few weeks ago and came up with a Freq vs. Temp variation of roughly 0.2 ppm/degree F. At 5 MHz (where I'd made the measurement), this works out to roughly a 40 Hz shift for a 40 degree change in temperature. (Only the temperature of the radio itself was changed; the PC was kept at a constant ambient temperature.) I didn't try it from a cold start, though. - Jeff, WA6AHL -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry Harley Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:26 AM To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] Frequency I know this has been beaten to death but I never saw anyone say what they are experiencing. I had a big problem in the beginning it was off by 278kc, after the component change I'm off 200 and drift up to dead on in less than 15 minutes. From the 15 minute mark on I see no drifting. Jerry Wa2tti ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency
At 09:06 AM 1/29/2006, Jerry Harley wrote: Jim Lux wrote: At 07:25 AM 1/29/2006, Jerry Harley wrote: I know this has been beaten to death but I never saw anyone say what they are experiencing. I had a big problem in the beginning it was off by 278kc, after the component change I'm off 200 and drift up to dead on in less than 15 minutes. From the 15 minute mark on I see no drifting. Jerry Wa2tti you're a quarter of a Megahertz off? Out of what frequency? Actually, no matter what, that's a huge error. I'd say you have a bad oscillator. NO, 200hz off from a cold start and within 15 minutes right on. Ohhh.. I was going from was off by 278kc So you're looking at 200 Hz out of, say, 14 MHz?That's 10-20 ppm, which is within spec for the oscillator, I think. It's not a TCXO on the SDR1000 (TCXOs have better frequency accuracy over temperature, but poorer phase noise, and Gerald picked for performance after warmup). If you're stable after 15 minutes, then you're in great shape. If you need turn on and be accurate within ppm within seconds, you need some sort of other external oscillator. James Lux, P.E. Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group Flight Communications Systems Section Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 4800 Oak Grove Drive Pasadena CA 91109 tel: (818)354-2075 fax: (818)393-6875
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency
At 10:00 AM 1/29/2006, Kurt Vangsness wrote: John, I see similar behavior. From a cold start I'm off freq by hundreds of HZ and after something like 2 to 3 minutes there is a sudden shift and everthing is on freq and relatively stable. I've always been surprised that it is such a sudden shift and not a gradual shift as the osc. warms up. A sudden shift? Are you commanding anything, or is it just sitting there? On my radios, sudden shifts were almost always due to the the temperature of the DDS. If it gets too hot, it stops responding to the commands correctly. Doesn't outright fail, but seems that some bits don't get through. My radios are the older heatsink-less varieties, and even a small air flow (from one of those tiny 1U high 40mm fans) entirely fixes the problem. Jim, W6RMK
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency
Hi Jerry, I had a frequency stability problem, not exactly as yours but both may be related. The symptoms was the stations appeared very displaced about 50 % the times I powered up the radio. Meanwhile I was figuring out what was happening with the calibration I discovered that unplugging and conecting again the power connector several times the frequency returned to the right value. After measuring carefully the offset at different frequencies, I supposed that the reference frequency sometimes was starting at 199.2885 MHz, since it was consistent with the measurements. Gerald advised me that the probable cause was the oscillator and it was not not related to the software or the DDS. I ordered a replacement oscillator and received it a week ago. This weekend I installed it and the problem is gone. It seems that those oscillators may develop a failure mode that affects stability. You can do some tests using an external oscillator ( the external oscillator kit may be improvised following the info) or temporarily replacing the suspect module with another with a suitable frequency, since submultiples of 200 Mhz could work. I used a plug in 50 Mhz module recovered from a computer MB because I was nor concerned with the spectral purity, only I wanted to be sure that the oscillator was bad. The circuitry has provisions for single ended or balanced oscillator output and the multiplication ratio can be set in the console setup. I hope this may help. 73 de Ignacio, EB4APL Jerry Harley wrote: I know this has been beaten to death but I never saw anyone say what they are experiencing. I had a big problem in the beginning it was off by 278kc, after the component change I'm off 200 and drift up to dead on in less than 15 minutes. From the 15 minute mark on I see no drifting. Jerry Wa2tti ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency
Jim, Just sitting there - It always happens and only once, after that everything is stable. My DDS has the heat sink (ECO-ed) so I still suspect it is just an unusual behavior of my oscillator. Kurt KC9FOL Jim Lux wrote: At 10:00 AM 1/29/2006, Kurt Vangsness wrote: John, I see similar behavior. From a cold start I'm off freq by hundreds of HZ and after something like 2 to 3 minutes there is a sudden shift and everthing is on freq and relatively stable. I've always been surprised that it is such a sudden shift and not a gradual shift as the osc. warms up. A sudden shift? Are you commanding anything, or is it just sitting there? On my radios, sudden shifts were almost always due to the the temperature of the DDS. If it gets too hot, it stops responding to the commands correctly. Doesn't outright fail, but seems that some bits don't get through. My radios are the older heatsink-less varieties, and even a small air flow (from one of those tiny 1U high 40mm fans) entirely fixes the problem. Jim, W6RMK
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration
Tom First let me say thanks for this message. I have already spent many hours following and reading much of the stuff on the links, you have provided with great enjoyment. I really like the cursor follower clock! Where can I get it for my local machine! Also thanks to you, Rick Hamby, Bob N4HY TvB, Frank Brickle and quite a few others for giving of your richness of knowledge and skill! It is a thrill to read! I wish I had been there for your presentations! I especially enjoyed the inspired design of the pic slaved to the 10 mhz time source! In a word Elegant! I am having trouble with your 2. below. I cant locate the files to defeat the calibration signals on the Jupiter. Where are they on gpstime.com? Thanks Eric2 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom Clark, W3IWI Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:30 AM To: Jim Lux Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration Jim Lux wrote: There ARE actually sources with better close in phase noise than a quartz crystal, just in case you see one at a hamfest or surplus place (or, you're wealthy enough). A hydrogen maser, for instance (that's what we use at work, JPL, when we're concerned about such things.. but then we have an infrastructure to distribute the maser signal around, and a budget for the support staff). Actually, all H-Maser I know rely on a really high quality xtal for their short-term stability (and hence intrinsic phase noise); by high quality, I mean BVA xtal units costing in the $5k range. The transition from the BVA xtal to the maser is typically done at times ~30-100 seconds or so (see the AVARs in my tutorials I mention later, or http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/manyadev.gif to see that the BVA performance is better than the Maser up to ~30 seconds. The goal is to hand off from one oscillator to the next when their Allen deviation is equal). BTW -- we actually have a couple of amateurs that have both passive active H-Masers in their basements. One is Tom vanBaak (no call) whose efforts can be viewed at http://leapsecond.com/ and another is Jim Jaeger (K8RQ) (see http://www.clockvault.com/ if you can stand the music!). TvB offered a review paper on amateur timekeeping at the 2003 PTTI meeting, which can be fetched at http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf. Also be sure to note TvB's Most Accurate WristWatch when you log onto leapsecond.com. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now -- you are better off thinking in the frequency (and phase noise) domain when you are considering oscillators on time scales shorter than tens of seconds, and in the time domain for minutes and longer. If you are interested in these topics, you might want to fetch one of my Timing for VLBI tutorials at http://gpstime.com/ . In my past incarnation I ran NASA's Geodetic VLBI program and was responsible for H-masers as time and frequency standards. While I am on here making comments on this thread, I note that Alberto, I2PHD is using a circuit similar to the one I developed for locking an xtal to the 10 kHz output from the Connexant/Navman Jupiter-T receiver. A couple of notes on what I found: My initial effort also used 74HC390 dividers as a ripple counter to get from 10 MHz - 10 kHz. But I found that the propagation delay thru these dividers varied strongly with temperature, amounting to a couple of hundred nsec in a day. I fixed this problem by using a simple, but elegant circuit developed by Tom van Baak (see http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/ppsdiv.zip) which uses a PIC with its clock input driven by the 10 MHz signal and a finite state machine that executes a fixed number of instructions to generate lower frequencies. Not only is it a very stable synchronous divider, but also it need only a couple of $$ worth of parts. I did a lot of work to optimize loop time constants to try to achieve performance at the couple of nsec levels. Most of the time, the Jupiter-T steered the oscillator very well, but about once per hour, the 10 kpps (and 1pps) output sawtooth goes thru a zero-beat, with a fixed bias error spanning intervals of 10s of seconds. You can see some of these sawtooth hanging bridges that really screw up the locking in my tutorials on gpstime.com. And you can see the fix that Rick (W2GPS) is using in his latest CNS clock using the M12+ in the latest of the gpstime.com tutorials. 73, Tom
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration
Jim Lux wrote: There ARE actually sources with better close in phase noise than a quartz crystal, just in case you see one at a hamfest or surplus place (or, you're wealthy enough). A hydrogen maser, for instance (that's what we use at work, JPL, when we're concerned about such things.. but then we have an infrastructure to distribute the maser signal around, and a budget for the support staff). Actually, all H-Maser I know rely on a really high quality xtal for their short-term stability (and hence intrinsic phase noise); by high quality, I mean BVA xtal units costing in the $5k range. The transition from the BVA xtal to the maser is typically done at times ~30-100 seconds or so (see the AVARs in my tutorials I mention later, or http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/manyadev.gif to see that the BVA performance is better than the Maser up to ~30 seconds. The goal is to "hand off " from one oscillator to the next when their Allen deviation is equal). BTW -- we actually have a couple of "amateurs" that have both passive active H-Masers in their basements. One is Tom vanBaak (no call) whose efforts can be viewed at http://leapsecond.com/ and another is Jim Jaeger (K8RQ) (see http://www.clockvault.com/ if you can stand the music!). TvB offered a review paper on amateur timekeeping at the 2003 PTTI meeting, which can be fetched at http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf. Also be sure to note TvB's "Most Accurate WristWatch" when you log onto leapsecond.com. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now -- you are better off thinking in the frequency (and phase noise) domain when you are considering oscillators on time scales shorter than tens of seconds, and in the time domain for minutes and longer. If you are interested in these topics, you might want to fetch one of my "Timing for VLBI" tutorials at http://gpstime.com/ . In my past incarnation I ran NASA's Geodetic VLBI program and was responsible for H-masers as time and frequency standards. While I am on here making comments on this thread, I note that Alberto, I2PHD is using a circuit similar to the one I developed for locking an xtal to the 10 kHz output from the Connexant/Navman Jupiter-T receiver. A couple of notes on what I found: My initial effort also used 74HC390 dividers as a ripple counter to get from 10 MHz - 10 kHz. But I found that the propagation delay thru these dividers varied strongly with temperature, amounting to a couple of hundred nsec in a day. I fixed this problem by using a simple, but elegant circuit developed by Tom van Baak (see http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/ppsdiv.zip) which uses a PIC with its clock input driven by the 10 MHz signal and a finite state machine that executes a fixed number of instructions to generate lower frequencies. Not only is it a very stable synchronous divider, but also it need only a couple of $$ worth of parts. I did a lot of work to optimize loop time constants to try to achieve performance at the couple of nsec levels. Most of the time, the Jupiter-T steered the oscillator very well, but about once per hour, the 10 kpps (and 1pps) output sawtooth goes thru a zero-beat, with a fixed bias error spanning intervals of 10s of seconds. You can see some of these sawtooth "hanging bridges" that really screw up the locking in my tutorials on gpstime.com. And you can see the fix that Rick (W2GPS) is using in his latest CNS clock using the M12+ in the latest of the gpstime.com tutorials. 73, Tom
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration
Tom I ran across TvB on one of my time forays off the FlexRadio Forum last year. This guy is amazing! I probably spent 8 hours reading about his shack and what he has done to get many stabilized time sources, and wandering around these websites. Talk about dedication to one hobby and becoming a master! WOW. All of this is worth the read folks! If just to marvel at the work and dedication. Eric From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom Clark, W3IWI Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:30 AM To: Jim Lux Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration Jim Lux wrote: There ARE actually sources with better close in phase noise than a quartz crystal, just in case you see one at a hamfest or surplus place (or, you're wealthy enough). A hydrogen maser, for instance (that's what we use at work, JPL, when we're concerned about such things.. but then we have an infrastructure to distribute the maser signal around, and a budget for the support staff). Actually, all H-Maser I know rely on a really high quality xtal for their short-term stability (and hence intrinsic phase noise); by high quality, I mean BVA xtal units costing in the $5k range. The transition from the BVA xtal to the maser is typically done at times ~30-100 seconds or so (see the AVARs in my tutorials I mention later, or http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/manyadev.gif to see that the BVA performance is better than the Maser up to ~30 seconds. The goal is to hand off from one oscillator to the next when their Allen deviation is equal). BTW -- we actually have a couple of amateurs that have both passive active H-Masers in their basements. One is Tom vanBaak (no call) whose efforts can be viewed at http://leapsecond.com/ and another is Jim Jaeger (K8RQ) (see http://www.clockvault.com/ if you can stand the music!). TvB offered a review paper on amateur timekeeping at the 2003 PTTI meeting, which can be fetched at http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf. Also be sure to note TvB's Most Accurate WristWatch when you log onto leapsecond.com. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now -- you are better off thinking in the frequency (and phase noise) domain when you are considering oscillators on time scales shorter than tens of seconds, and in the time domain for minutes and longer. If you are interested in these topics, you might want to fetch one of my Timing for VLBI tutorials at http://gpstime.com/ . In my past incarnation I ran NASA's Geodetic VLBI program and was responsible for H-masers as time and frequency standards. While I am on here making comments on this thread, I note that Alberto, I2PHD is using a circuit similar to the one I developed for locking an xtal to the 10 kHz output from the Connexant/Navman Jupiter-T receiver. A couple of notes on what I found: My initial effort also used 74HC390 dividers as a ripple counter to get from 10 MHz - 10 kHz. But I found that the propagation delay thru these dividers varied strongly with temperature, amounting to a couple of hundred nsec in a day. I fixed this problem by using a simple, but elegant circuit developed by Tom van Baak (see http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/ppsdiv.zip) which uses a PIC with its clock input driven by the 10 MHz signal and a finite state machine that executes a fixed number of instructions to generate lower frequencies. Not only is it a very stable synchronous divider, but also it need only a couple of $$ worth of parts. I did a lot of work to optimize loop time constants to try to achieve performance at the couple of nsec levels. Most of the time, the Jupiter-T steered the oscillator very well, but about once per hour, the 10 kpps (and 1pps) output sawtooth goes thru a zero-beat, with a fixed bias error spanning intervals of 10s of seconds. You can see some of these sawtooth hanging bridges that really screw up the locking in my tutorials on gpstime.com. And you can see the fix that Rick (W2GPS) is using in his latest CNS clock using the M12+ in the latest of the gpstime.com tutorials. 73, Tom
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration
Tom Really neat stuff. Would love to hear you give the 2005 PPT presentation. What did happen on 09/07/02? Looks to my naked eye, that raw data from GPS is plenty accurate for our purposes as you pose in one of the slides. The flying cursor clock and nixies on gpstime.com is the neatest thing Ive seen in a long time! -pun Thanks for the links. I dont understand all of it but is enjoyable to try to figure it all out! Bob mentioned using pic slaved to the osc, the other night on Teamspeak. REALLY clever idea.! Eric From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom Clark, W3IWI Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:30 AM To: Jim Lux Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration Jim Lux wrote: There ARE actually sources with better close in phase noise than a quartz crystal, just in case you see one at a hamfest or surplus place (or, you're wealthy enough). A hydrogen maser, for instance (that's what we use at work, JPL, when we're concerned about such things.. but then we have an infrastructure to distribute the maser signal around, and a budget for the support staff). Actually, all H-Maser I know rely on a really high quality xtal for their short-term stability (and hence intrinsic phase noise); by high quality, I mean BVA xtal units costing in the $5k range. The transition from the BVA xtal to the maser is typically done at times ~30-100 seconds or so (see the AVARs in my tutorials I mention later, or http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/manyadev.gif to see that the BVA performance is better than the Maser up to ~30 seconds. The goal is to hand off from one oscillator to the next when their Allen deviation is equal). BTW -- we actually have a couple of amateurs that have both passive active H-Masers in their basements. One is Tom vanBaak (no call) whose efforts can be viewed at http://leapsecond.com/ and another is Jim Jaeger (K8RQ) (see http://www.clockvault.com/ if you can stand the music!). TvB offered a review paper on amateur timekeeping at the 2003 PTTI meeting, which can be fetched at http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf. Also be sure to note TvB's Most Accurate WristWatch when you log onto leapsecond.com. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now -- you are better off thinking in the frequency (and phase noise) domain when you are considering oscillators on time scales shorter than tens of seconds, and in the time domain for minutes and longer. If you are interested in these topics, you might want to fetch one of my Timing for VLBI tutorials at http://gpstime.com/ . In my past incarnation I ran NASA's Geodetic VLBI program and was responsible for H-masers as time and frequency standards. While I am on here making comments on this thread, I note that Alberto, I2PHD is using a circuit similar to the one I developed for locking an xtal to the 10 kHz output from the Connexant/Navman Jupiter-T receiver. A couple of notes on what I found: My initial effort also used 74HC390 dividers as a ripple counter to get from 10 MHz - 10 kHz. But I found that the propagation delay thru these dividers varied strongly with temperature, amounting to a couple of hundred nsec in a day. I fixed this problem by using a simple, but elegant circuit developed by Tom van Baak (see http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/ppsdiv.zip) which uses a PIC with its clock input driven by the 10 MHz signal and a finite state machine that executes a fixed number of instructions to generate lower frequencies. Not only is it a very stable synchronous divider, but also it need only a couple of $$ worth of parts. I did a lot of work to optimize loop time constants to try to achieve performance at the couple of nsec levels. Most of the time, the Jupiter-T steered the oscillator very well, but about once per hour, the 10 kpps (and 1pps) output sawtooth goes thru a zero-beat, with a fixed bias error spanning intervals of 10s of seconds. You can see some of these sawtooth hanging bridges that really screw up the locking in my tutorials on gpstime.com. And you can see the fix that Rick (W2GPS) is using in his latest CNS clock using the M12+ in the latest of the gpstime.com tutorials. 73, Tom
Re: [Flexradio] Frequency stability and calibration
At 05:29 PM 11/22/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Flexers, I did a freq cal four days ago and have checked it everyday since. Here is what I see on my SDR, -1Hz to +2Hz. Also a comment about the Rubidium, Cesium and Crystal oscillators. Oscillators are characterized by short term(phase noise) and long term(drift) freq stability. The phase noise it what concerns us most when it comes to receiving. We want it low enough so that it doesn't swamp weak signals. Ideally it should be 10db below the noise floor of the receiver so as to not reduce sensitivity and hence dynamic range. It is the 'Q' of the resonant component(s) that determine the phase noise. The quartz crystal is still the leader when it comes phase noise. Rubidium and Cesium are superior in time keeping (long term stability), but have awful phase noise. These are the 'real' atomic clocks. The navy is the largest user of these. No GPS under water! Regarding GPS, its timing is based on the Cesium clocks. There ARE actually sources with better close in phase noise than a quartz crystal, just in case you see one at a hamfest or surplus place (or, you're wealthy enough). A hydrogen maser, for instance (that's what we use at work, JPL, when we're concerned about such things.. but then we have an infrastructure to distribute the maser signal around, and a budget for the support staff). A more portable high Q resonator is a sapphire resonator (which is used in some high performance phase noise test sets). Another one is a superconducting cavity resonator (which isn't as impractical as it might seem, with high temperature superconductors(liquid nitrogen temperature). As far as long term stable sources go, there's also things like Mercury Ion traps, which I believe can provide Cs quality long term, but also are high Q so they're good phase noise. However, as John says.. there's lots of really good quality 10 MHz crystal oscillators out there fairly cheap.
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
Hi Eric - To your earlier post regarding implementing within an FPGA the circuitry Alberto pointed to. Yes, this is easily done. In fact, I'd think you could improve upon the design, too. For example, in the schematic you really don't want the 43K resistor across the 470 uF cap - it, in series with the 15k resistor, will continually discharge the cap, meaning that the VCO control voltage (and thus frequency) will continually vary as the cap discharges and the phase-comparator pumps it back up to regain phase-lock. Ideally, if you're in lock, you would like the control voltage to be an unvarying DC level. Anyway - you could certainly implement all the digital circuitry as well as a '4046-style phase comparator within the fpga and drive an external loop filter, similar to shown in the schematic. Or...you could even attempt loop filtering within the fpga and generate the VCO control voltage a number of ways - drive a dac, for example (similar to Shera's design - which I use here to drive an HP 106B, by the way). But no matter which route is followed, much attention needs to be paid to ground power routing, layout, etc, to ensure that minimal noise is added to the VCO control voltage from external sources. - Jeff, WA6AHL
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
At 05:14 AM 11/23/2005, Jeff Anderson wrote: Hi Eric - To your earlier post regarding implementing within an FPGA the circuitry Alberto pointed to. Yes, this is easily done. In fact, I'd think you could improve upon the design, too. For example, in the schematic you really don't want the 43K resistor across the 470 uF cap - it, in series with the 15k resistor, will continually discharge the cap, meaning that the VCO control voltage (and thus frequency) will continually vary as the cap discharges and the phase-comparator pumps it back up to regain phase-lock. Ideally, if you're in lock, you would like the control voltage to be an unvarying DC level. Turning the first order loop into a second order loop. A first order loop will always have some small phase error, but it will be reasonably constant (frequency dependent, possibly). Anyway - you could certainly implement all the digital circuitry as well as a '4046-style phase comparator within the fpga and drive an external loop filter, similar to shown in the schematic. Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern] Or...you could even attempt loop filtering within the fpga and generate the VCO control voltage a number of ways - drive a dac, for example (similar to Shera's design - which I use here to drive an HP 106B, by the way). But no matter which route is followed, much attention needs to be paid to ground power routing, layout, etc, to ensure that minimal noise is added to the VCO control voltage from external sources. Which is precisly why I like the idea of measuring the offset and compensating in other ways, rather than steering the oscillator itself. Then, you can work on getting the best possible performance from the oscillator, which can be highly isolated from the outside world. - Jeff, WA6AHL Jim, W6RMK
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
Somewhere, on one of the partitions on one of the drives visible to one of the OSs on one of my computers, I have a complete NCO written in VHDL pretty much ready for dropping into an FPGA (you do the grunge work of assigning ports, etc.). IF I remember correctly (guaranty does not cover memory), an Altera AE found it for me. If anyone wants to try it contact me directly and I will look for it. Phil, K3IB - Original Message - From: Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jeff Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biz flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern]
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
Hi Jim,Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern] [WA6AHL] :I likeyour idea. But let me see if I understand it...inan app such as, say,a general-purpose way of generating a stable frequency using the Jupiter 1pps as reference, are you saying that the NCO (with an external, stable, oscillator as its clock source) would, in essence,be the digital version of the preiously mentioned VCO? Phase comparison between the NCO's output and the reference1ppsis done within the FPGA and the error used to "steer" the NCO and proved an output that's locked to the ref? Is one ofthe tradeoffs low phase-noise vs. frequency-step "quantization" of the NCO? (E.g. the NCO mightnever be *exactly* on frequency). In an application specific to the SDR1K, per Bob's example, youdon't need the NCO. Instead, feed the error sig back to the SDR1K and let s/w handle frequency correction... Or...you could even attempt loopfiltering within the fpga and generate the VCO control voltage a number ofways - drive a dac, for example (similar to Shera's design - which I usehere to drive an HP 106B, by the way). But no matter which route isfollowed, much attention needs to be paid to ground power routing, layout,etc,to ensure that minimal noise is added to the VCO control voltage fromexternal sources.Which is precisly why I like the idea of measuring the offset and compensating in other ways, rather than steering the oscillator itself. Then, you can work on getting the best possible performance from the oscillator, which can be highly isolated from the outside world. [WA6AHL] Agreed. Of course, depending upon how sensitive to noise your application is, good layout bypassing techniques still apply even for theNCO technique. Given finite slew-rates of digital signals, ground bounce or supply sag can increase switching-threshold uncertainty, resulting in jitter in the digital domain.Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:14 AM 11/23/2005, Jeff Anderson wrote:Hi Eric -To your earlier post regarding implementing within an FPGA the circuitryAlberto pointed to. Yes, this is easily done. In fact, I'd think you couldimprove upon the design, too. For example, in the schematic you reallydon't want the 43K resistor across the 470 uF cap - it, in series with the15k resistor, will continually discharge the cap, meaning that the VCOcontrol voltage (and thus frequency) will continually vary as the capdischarges and the phase-comparator pumps it back up to regain phase-lock.Ideally, if you're in lock, you would like the control voltage to be anunvarying DC level.Turning the first order loop into a second order loop. A first order loop will always have some small phase error, but it will be reasonably constant (frequency dependent, possibly).Anyway - you could certainly implement all the digital circuitry as well asa '4046-style phase comparator within the fpga and drive an external loopfilter, similar to shown in the schematic.Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern] Or...you could even attempt loopfiltering within the fpga and generate the VCO control voltage a number ofways - drive a dac, for example (similar to Shera's design - which I usehere to drive an HP 106B, by the way). But no matter which route isfollowed, much attention needs to be paid to ground power routing, layout,etc,to ensure that minimal noise is added to the VCO control voltage fromexternal sources.Which is precisly why I like the idea of measuring the offset and compensating in other ways, rather than steering the oscillator itself. Then, you can work on getting the best possible performance from the oscillator, which can be highly isolated from the outside world.- Jeff, WA6AHLJim, W6RMK
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
Actually, I would be much more interested in the shell script you use to search all of the machines running different OS's to find the file ;-). I don't know what an AE is unless it means application engineer but be careful about IP ;-) intellectual property issues with these cores. With that taken care of, send it over. I always like looking at how others do their cordic arithmetic in these cores. Bob Philip M. Lanese wrote: Somewhere, on one of the partitions on one of the drives visible to one of the OSs on one of my computers, I have a complete NCO written in VHDL pretty much ready for dropping into an FPGA (you do the grunge work of assigning ports, etc.). IF I remember correctly (guaranty does not cover memory), an Altera AE found it for me. If anyone wants to try it contact me directly and I will look for it. Phil, K3IB - Original Message - From: Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jeff Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biz flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern] ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz -- Laziness is the number one inspiration for ingenuity. Guilty as charged!
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
I like your idea of keeping the existing low phase noise Oscillator and measure the drift and correct in the software. The whole thing could be quite cheap yet give you good results. Like you mentioned using a small CPU running off a GPS calibrated clock to measure the Oscillator output, multiple readings and average it out. This entails a minimum change to the radio, the software changes would be very small, adding an offset to the frequency of the DDS, a little bit of code to read the calibration offset from the measuring CPU. Basically a Huff and Puff using software to do the actual correction. At 11:04 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote: Hi Jim, Which is precisly why I like the idea of measuring the offset and compensating in other ways, rather than steering the oscillator itself. Then, you can work on getting the best possible performance from the oscillator, which can be highly isolated from the outside world. - Jeff, WA6AHL Jim, W6RMK ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Cecil Bayona KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't; only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ...
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
At 09:04 AM 11/23/2005, Jeff Anderson wrote: Hi Jim, Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern] [WA6AHL] : I like your idea. But let me see if I understand it...in an app such as, say, a general-purpose way of generating a stable frequency using the Jupiter 1pps as reference, are you saying that the NCO (with an external, stable, oscillator as its clock source) would, in essence, be the digital version of the preiously mentioned VCO? Phase comparison between the NCO's output and the reference 1pps is done within the FPGA and the error used to steer the NCO and proved an output that's locked to the ref? Phase comparison between the external clock and the 1pps is used to steer the NCO, but yes, the NCO replaces the VCO. Is one of the tradeoffs low phase-noise vs. frequency-step quantization of the NCO? (E.g. the NCO might never be *exactly* on frequency). Sure.. And there's also the issue of NCO spurs.. Nothing comes for free. In the space application, the nice thing is that it makes it easy to generate one frequency that is coherently locked to another reference. Here's the typical scenario. The deep space network sends a carrier at, say, 7160.000771 MHz to the spacecraft where it is used as a reference to lock an oscillator on the spacecraft. That oscillator is then used to synthesize a return carrier at, say, 8412.283950 MHz, which the ground receives. The ratio between frequencies is something like 880/749, called the turnaround ratio. The ground receiver tracking loop bandwidth might be one Hz or so (hey, we're talking about a 10 Watt transmitter from Pluto or something... you need all the help you can get). If the transponder on the spacecraft is good enough, you can do useful radio science by measuring the changes in the phase of the received signal. For instance, you can do things like measure the density of a planet or moon's atmosphere. Or, because measuring fractions of a cycle in phase is like measuring displacements on the order of centimeters, you can do orbit determination for things a long, long ways away. Historically, all this tracking and synthesizing was done in conventional analog PLL kinds of ways, with a VCXO and chains of multipliers. Naturally, because good, quiet VCXOs have small tuning ranges, you'd have to decide on your frequencies a long time in advance, and get a crystal ground for that, etc. Now, however, you could use a very stable and quiet XO, and track out the difference of the uplink signal against the XO entirely with a digital loop, and synthesize the coherent downlink also with a digital oscillator. The frequency of the underlying XO isn't as important, so you can use the same XO for lots of different missions (or, even, change the channel assignment late in the game). A very quiet XO is useful too, because sometimes, you're not doing coherent turnaround, but just generating the downlink from the internal oscillator. You'd like that downlink signal to be very quiet (so that you can do ranging, for instance, or because you're sending data at 8 bits/second). You'd also like the ability to control the frequency of that downlink without having to physically change the crystal frequency, and an NCO can do that. http://tmo.jpl.nasa.gov/progress_report/42-156/156C.pdf talks a bit about this kind of stuff. In an application specific to the SDR1K, per Bob's example, you don't need the NCO. Instead, feed the error sig back to the SDR1K and let s/w handle frequency correction... Exactly.. James Lux, P.E. Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group Flight Communications Systems Section Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 4800 Oak Grove Drive Pasadena CA 91109 tel: (818)354-2075 fax: (818)393-6875
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
Folks I have a stupid question which I should be able to look up. Can an FPGA pin actually accept a 10 mhz or 200 mhz signal so that the LEs could be configured to divide it down? I really do like Bobs example and suggestion. Have 1 10 mhz tcvcxo interfaced to the GPS and stabilized. Divide the 200 mhz signal down to say 10 meg compare the reference sig to the LO and tell the software to correct for variance in the 200 mhz LO. Am I understanding this correctly. (forget whether it is a PIC or FPGA or discrete hardware). I need a block diag to follow all this (smile). Its fun tho! Eric From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jeff Anderson Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 12:04 PM To: Jim Lux; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc Hi Jim, Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern] [WA6AHL] :I likeyour idea. But let me see if I understand it...inan app such as, say,a general-purpose way of generating a stable frequency using the Jupiter 1pps as reference, are you saying that the NCO (with an external, stable, oscillator as its clock source) would, in essence,be the digital version of the preiously mentioned VCO? Phase comparison between the NCO's output and the reference1ppsis done within the FPGA and the error used to steer the NCO and proved an output that's locked to the ref? Is one ofthe tradeoffs low phase-noise vs. frequency-step quantization of the NCO? (E.g. the NCO mightnever be *exactly* on frequency). In an application specific to the SDR1K, per Bob's example, youdon't need the NCO. Instead, feed the error sig back to the SDR1K and let s/w handle frequency correction... Or...you could even attempt loop filtering within the fpga and generate the VCO control voltage a number of ways - drive a dac, for example (similar to Shera's design - which I use here to drive an HP 106B, by the way). But no matter which route is followed, much attention needs to be paid to ground power routing, layout, etc, to ensure that minimal noise is added to the VCO control voltage from external sources. Which is precisly why I like the idea of measuring the offset and compensating in other ways, rather than steering the oscillator itself. Then, you can work on getting the best possible performance from the oscillator, which can be highly isolated from the outside world. [WA6AHL] Agreed. Of course, depending upon how sensitive to noise your application is, good layout bypassing techniques still apply even for theNCO technique. Given finite slew-rates of digital signals, ground bounce or supply sag can increase switching-threshold uncertainty, resulting in jitter in the digital domain. Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:14 AM 11/23/2005, Jeff Anderson wrote: Hi Eric - To your earlier post regarding implementing within an FPGA the circuitry Alberto pointed to. Yes, this is easily done. In fact, I'd think you could improve upon the design, too. For example, in the schematic you really don't want the 43K resistor across the 470 uF cap - it, in series with the 15k resistor, will continually discharge the cap, meaning that the VCO control voltage (and thus frequency) will continually vary as the cap discharges and the phase-comparator pumps it back up to regain phase-lock. Ideally, if you're in lock, you would like the control voltage to be an unvarying DC level. Turning the first order loop into a second order loop. A first order loop will always have some small phase error, but it will be reasonably constant (frequency dependent, possibly). Anyway - you could certainly implement all the digital circuitry as well as a '4046-style phase comparator within the fpga and drive an external loop filter, similar to shown in the schematic. Or, use a fixed oscillator, and run an NCO in the FPGA to create an offset frequency, which you then mix with the fixed oscillator to create your locked output. [This is what we are doing in an experimental deep space transponder.. where phase noise is of obssessive concern] Or...you could even attempt loop filtering within the fpga and generate the VCO control voltage a number of ways - drive a dac, for example (similar to Shera's design - which I use here to drive an HP 106B, by the way). But no matter which route is followed, much attention needs to be paid to ground power routing, layout, etc, to ensure that minimal noise is added to the VCO control voltage from external sources. Which is precisly why I like the idea of measuring the offset and compensating in other ways, rather than steering the oscillator itself. Then, you can work on getting the best possible performance
Re: [Flexradio] frequency calibration etc
Can an FPGA pin actually accept a 10 mhz or 200 mhz signal so that the LE’s could be configured to divide it down? 10 MHz is no problem. 200 MHz! Many FPGAs can handle this frequency, some go faster, many can't go quite this fast. 73, Lyle KK7P
