Re: [Goanet] Evolutionist Kevin?
Every once in a while one comes across a scientist like Santosh who, from his arrogance it seems, does not seem to realize that his understanding is, at best, limited. Allwyn, The thing about scientists is they will freely admit that their understanding is very limited(if it indeed is, that is). Infact the best scientists in the world will admit that their knowledege is restricted to a minute aspect of the natural world. Further there is no absolutism in Science, a single shred of evidence contrary to a scientific theory is enough to bring it down. And the beauty is that Scientists move on after that. However you will find no such humility among religious chest thumpers. They claim to know everything from how the universe was created to why homosexuality exists, and put the onus of disproving their theories on scientists. I cannot think of a person more qualified to shed light on the neurological basis of human experience than Santosh. He is at the very cutting edge of this field. Empirical science cannot prove naught. So would you let yourself be exposed to asbestos or encourage pregnant women to drink and smoke? Pure science too, for example mathematics, for that matter, cannot prove naught. The next time you go shopping, try explaining to the Cashier that your bill should actuall be minus ten rupees and that arithmetic is only one of many ways of calculating the amount. What would you say to your employer if he paid you for three days less in a month. Would mathematics be involved? Pure science, too, is based on axioms. The axioms are taken for granted. There is no proof for the axioms, one simply needs to believe in them. Would you care to list a single axiom in pure science that one needs to believe in with the complete absence of proof. Regards Sunith
Re: [Goanet] Bhandares Musings
Bosco, How could you accuse Bhandare of being anti-Catholic. He is by his own logic a supporter of the United Methodist Church. After all he contributes a large portion of his earnings to the US government, an organisation headed by a Methodist. Whats worse is that he also provides financial support to the Episcopalians, since one of them is the governor of his state. Guruji must be turning in his grave! Sunith Velho RESPONSE: Good for you! As per your wisdom, Texans who pay their state taxes are murderers since their tax-dollars are used to send people to the nether-world on a one-way ticket
Re: [Goanet] Bhandare's Musings
Bosco, To be fair, sometimes Jekyll Bhandare does have a point but Hyde Bhandare often steps in with a lot of bigoted crap and 'factual' information backed by paranoia instead of proof. As far as this perception that Muslims all over the world are trying to build, of them getting a raw deal in non-Muslim dominated countries, I think one has to be objective about this. This paranoia of on Goanet being fed by people who have not travelled past Mumbai or Goa, of Christians in India being oppressed also has to be looked at in the same manner. In India, the President, the richest businessman, the biggest Bollywood stars and sport stars are all Muslim. To say that a moderate Muslim or Christian in India gets a raw deal in any sense is quite unfair. However, I do admit that religious fundamentalists from both the above communities are often at the receiving end from their Hindu counterparts. When we read about an isolated incident of a missionary being assaulted or killed in India, it would be insightful to think of what would have happened to a Hindu preacher intent on converting people elsewhere in the world, especially rural areas. I would even go as far to say that foreign Catholic missionaries and hate-Imams have more freedom in India than aggressive Hindu or Islamic preachers would have in any country abroad. A visit to the North-East of India or the tribal belts of Chattisgarh will confirm this. Did you see the furore that was caused in the US Senate over a simple Hindu opening prayer? What about the ruckus on Goanet when some mass in Toronto was deemed to be to 'Indian'(read Hindu). Here in the U.K., many Muslims are fighting for the right to be fundamentalist. They want official support for the right to force women to wear burkhas and other such demeaning practices. Recently a Muslim woman police constable didn't want to shake hands with the chief of police because he was a non-Muslim male. Another officer didn't want to report for duty at the Israeli embassy. Of course if they are not allowed the above 'rights', then it immediately portrayed as an attack against Islamic culture. It is a shame to see that you have succumbed to this 'Muslims are getting a raw deal' line of thought. Do Muslims in India really get a worse deal than Dalits, tribals, Tamil Brahmins, people from the North East or various other groups? I think moderate Muslims get a better deal in India than they would in Pakistan or anywhere else in the developing world. Regards Sunith Are your reasons similar or identical as to why Muslims in India are getting a raw deal? That is if you agree they are getting a raw deal. Is your point of reference the Battle of Panipat, just about after the Portuguese arrived in Goa?
Re: [Goanet] Christianity on GoaNet
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org GL writes: Contrast that to Bhandare's even more extensive and illuminating write-up on caste in Goa and India with absolute no reference to any religion. Standing on somebody-else's shoulder, to look tall, is a pretty pathetic mind-set. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and get off Chinmaya's shoulders. As far as words wasted on absurdity go, Kevin Saldanha doesn't hold a candle to you or your experimenting Mauxi who turned herself into your Aaji. Sunith Velho --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] Dr. Carmo D'Cruz's course on Warren Buffet
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Cornel: You should have known better by now. As we have been repeatedly informed K3 has garages, condos and patents that put his net worth in the nine figure bracket. Chinmaya: I'm afraid that you have already burned your bridges as far as Goanetters and free investment tips go. Mervyn and Gabe are the resident experts in this field. Sunith Cornel writes: Dr Bhandare I hope some of the dosh that Dr Carmo advises his students about, also rubs off on him.
Re: [Goanet] UK bomb plot
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org In a further blow to highly read Selma Carvalho's painstakingly researched fundamentalist theory, the masterminds of the recent bomb plot in the UK were found to be doctors with the UK National Health Services. Her theory is further weakened by the continued existence of a spam list run by a well off and highly educated former Goanetter which continues to fill my spam filters at a rate of ten unsolicited emails a day. I guess its my fault for asking her to abandon her usual areas of expertise i.e. name calling and inane generalities. Sunith Velho Selma's theory of fundamentalism: So again, my theory holds true, that extreme fundamentalist religious ideas take root in poverty and lack of education.
Re: [Goanet] Being affronted selectively/reply to Selma
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org I would have a lot more respect for your righteous indignation, had you also declared ignorance and bigotry when a lot of muck was raked about Christianity. Righteous Indignation?!? Far from it, just exposing a woeful lack of knowledge of many posters on matters relating to the Indian subcontinent and Goa in particular. You want to discuss Chrsitianity and its role in the sub-continent, try reading about what former Hitler-youth Ratzinger caused the Vatican to do to Tissa Balasuriya and Sebastian Kappen, both first rate indigenous theologians. Take a vote among your Goan friends to see how many have read articles by these two versus those who watch the charlatan Benny Hinn on Miraclenet, and then talk to me about hypocrisy. In your backyard of Verna, find out about Fr. Conceicao Rodrigues(founder of the Pilar order) and his association with the Jan Sangh, Advani and Vajpayee in particular. Are you aware that these priests specifically invited L.K. Advani to innaugurate their Engineering College in Verna? Why won't anyone come out and call them hypocrites. Is it because they have done more for higher education than any other organisation in Goa. You can then read how the Vatican has quite succesfully surpressed liberation theology in South America, in its desperate attempt to ensure the dominance of a small coterie of cardinals, mostly European. Then again its best to stick to matters that are your area of interest i.e. name calling and innane generalities rather than risk making a fool of yourself with specifics. Unlike you, I feel no obligation to support the hallucination of the Vatican being the saviour of oppressed third world pagans, just like most Hindus do not feel obliged to support the RSS as the guardian of their culture. Further, unlike you I refuse to defend the Inquisition, Colonialism, the Crusades or Paedophillia in the Church due to some delusional sense of loyalty to the Vatican instead of to the real teachings of Christ. Sunith Velho
Re: [Goanet] Selma's selective secularism
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org I also believe conversely, fundamentalism has its roots in poverty, which leads to lack of education and being disenfranchised from the mainstream. The fact that UK Muslims, who apparently live in UK ghettos are more prone to embrace fundamentalism than the Muslim youth of America, who atleast by the second generation start living the American dream, is a telling tale. Further evidence of the type of completely fake secularism that Selma tries to portray, by using different yardsticks for different people. If what you say above is true, why is the richest nation on Earth, the USA also the epicentre of Christian fundamentalism. Is George Bush not part of the so called 'American dream'. Are the Wahabi's in Saudi Arabia impoverished? Was Osama not from one of the richest families there. Did the Hindutva movement rise from the poorest classes i.e. the Dalits? It seems like organised religion (in its aggressive form) is the only common denominator in all the above cases, but Selma is afraid to say it lest she jeopardise her position of a closet Vatican loyalist parading as an 'agnostic secular humanist', who opposes fundamentalism by all except those of her faith tradition. Pardon me Selma, but your slip has been showing for a long time now. Sunith Velho
Re: [Goanet] No more religious postings
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Frederick, Do you give equal weight or credence to Vidhyadhar Gadgil's belief in Pastafarianism as you do to the those of Catholics, Muslims or Hindus? Do you accept that I COULD be the founder of Goanet and that I sometimes use my supernatural powers to morph into an entity called Bosco? If not then I'm afraid you are bigot as well. And please do not ask me for evidence to support this claim. Regards Sunith FN writes: An example of a secular-bigot is my friend and co-villager Kevin Saldanha. Or Dr Santosh. (Nothing personal here.) They are so convinced about the rightness of their own worldviews (atheism, and Science, respectively) that they feel the need to prove everyone else's perspective incorrect.
[Goanet] Religious Postings - Reply to Kamlaksh and Bhandare
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org I would not have entered this Religious Debate if it was not for the Parrikar's RSS and his BJP party banning Easter in Goa, Holy Easter/Good Friday is on par with Ganesh, (Christmas is NOT called HOLY, just Christmas). This is a blatant lie that is often repeated on this forum by people with little knowledge of what really goes on in Goa. What Parrikar did was put certain unrestricted holidays such as Good Friday and the feast of SFX on the restricted list for government servants. This is a very common pratice in the private sector. Hindus can call Kali Mata (the human blood drinker) a goddess, and have a public holiday in Bengal; why did Parrikar pick on Christian HOLY day? Further ignorance and bigotry on display. Is Kali really human? Did Parrikar declare Kali puja a public holiday for Goans? Is he then anti-Bengali? Sunith Velho
Re: [Goanet] God is MY buddy/ response to Gabe
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org Gabe wrote to C.A. Bhandare after all we don't do that, about your former beliefs, or affiliations and your brethren therefrom ? Actually many people have done that, not including you Gabe. Hindus have been derided as backward animal worshippers on this forum by quite a few people. We have also seen the issues of Sati and the Caste system brought up, just like Mr. Bhandare has brought up the issues of SFX's Inquisition and rampant paedophilia by priests. This is the 'God is MY buddy' syndrome that Mervyn Lobo is talking about. If you choose, to be like our friend Cornell, or Santosh, then so be it. Cornel, has stated his beliefs or unbeliefs, but he would, never ever, object to someone else's beliefs, that goes, too for Santosh. Not true. Santosh has been speaking out against irrational beliefs ever since Goanet started and Cornel does too. What they do not do is attack beliefs they perceive as harmless. I also believe Santosh has a generous annual award for those who promote reasoning and rationality. He is much like the moderate version of Periyar E.V.Ramaswamy, arguably modern India's most effective social reformer. Sunith Velho
Re: [Goanet] Knighthood to Rushdie /reply to Ed De Silva
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org Edward de Silva writes: All other currencies are below UKs - how about that for a start. Why he is given a Knighrhood has a political undercurrent, UK is not stupid. It is India that is stupid (killed Indira and got our currency from Rs15/-to ? during her time to R80/- today). ED. One Indian rupee can buy 100 Japanese Yen, what do you have to say about that. Are Indians richer than the Japanese? In Indira Gandhi's time do you have any idea of the limit that was imposed on the conversion of Rupees to any foreign exchange. Do you know what that limit is now? Do you know the reasons for this? It is best you do some reading before posting on matters that are not your are of expertise, instead of demanding that others do so. Sunith Velho
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org The Order of the Knights of Columbus is the world's largest Catholic fraternal service organisation, lobbying by this organisation led to the inclusion of the phrase 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance of the USA. It is named after Christopher Columbus, whose 'discovery' of America paved way for the subsequent genocide of Native Americans. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus St. Columba was also apparently a mass murder, but trivial matters like these are not important to the cannonisation process of the Church if mass murder is followed by mass conversions. [quote]Diarmuid was defeated at Cuildreimhne, Co. Sligo and Columba was blamed for the hundreds of dead. When a synod called on him to make amends by converting an equal number of pagans, he opted to work among the Picts of Scotland.[end of quote] http://www.irelandseye.com/irish/people/saints/columba.shtm Sunith Velho As to your last sentence, I cannot think what you're saying. Perhaps you mean Knights of St Columba. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Saint_Columba and further, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Columba. I see no references of this monk being a mass murderer. Gabriel de Figueiredo
Re: [Goanet] C.A. Bhandare's envy
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org Mr. Bhandare, Rest assured that there are other terms reserved for me. Of late I have been called a Paki, former-Salazarist and my 'Goan' upbringing has been questioned. I usually laugh these insults off, but on occasion show these emails at parties so that all my friends can laugh at the squirming of the furrow browed brigade. Albert on the other hand faces a real danger to his physical well being from his own community. I heard how a group of Chrsitians almost got lynched by their fellow Christian brothers in Sao Jose de Areal, a few days ago. Regards Sunith Velho
Re: [Goanet] Frederick Noronha on CA Bhandare ... and JC
--- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- I agree with all of JC's points. I also think that all forms of discrimination based on caste, colour or religion should be dealt with very seriously. Fortunately, the Indian constitution provides laws against all forms of discrimination. Unfortunately, Indian politicians(of all castes) and the bureaucracy have been very lax in applying these laws. I pray for an end to all forms of organised religion based on dogmas, and sincerely believe that peace will come once this is achieved. Sunith Velho - Original Message - From: Jose Colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: for GoaNet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Frederick FN Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Selma Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: Frederick Noronha on CA Bhandare ... and JC 1. EVERY single religion (except perhaps Buddhism) has been hijacked to oppress the less fortunate. 2. Religion is a private matter. It has no business in (public) political life. 3. Those who are forced to convert are NOT converted.
[Goanet] A list for Paulo Dias
--- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Please come with a list of names and then ask them each one by one if they are pro-colonial! All those who see nothing wrong about parades in Goa which involve the waving of Portuguese flags(my original point). So far the list consists of 1. Selma Carvalho (?) 2. Bernardo Colaco 3. Jose Colaco 4. Marsh Mendonca Those classed by me as ignorants are those who think that this has no effect on the way Catholics are percieved in Goa and the rest of India. Make that list up for yourself. If anyone rejects my contention that this flag waving is a sign of confused identity, then please tell my why there are no similar parades taken out by football supporters of Brazil or Argentina of whom there are a similar(or much more) number in Goa. A basic democratic right which was denied for centuries under the Portuguese continued to be denied by the new rulers who are .supposed to have liberated us after 1961 (but technically as Fred says it was a conquest. What a joke!). The real joke is you continuously comparing the rights of Goans under the Portuguese colonial regime with those that EVERY GOAN enjoys today as part of the Indian union, a privilege they were able to enjoy almost two decades before the Portuguese people themselves. If you or anyone provide me a list of CONSTITUTIONAL rights enjoyed by Goans both pre and post liberation, I will shut up. Go ahead... what are you waiting for? Sunith Velho
Re: [Goanet] Flags, Colonialism and Sleeping in a History
--- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Paulo, It would help if you were more specific. All we have from you are more generalities and the usual age equals wisdom argument. Please remeber that age also equals senile dementia in due course. What points raised by me w.r.t to colonialism are you disputing. Selma raises none except a weak defense that some posters were born during the Portuguese regime and hence I should not dispute their claims. How many of the vocal pro-colonialism voices on this forum have lived more then ten years as adults under the Portuguese regime? If anyone is unable to counter my specific points with related arguments and instead resort deflecting the main issue by citing the Hindu caste system, their age or my familiy history, then I am afraid they are as ignorant as I claim them to be. And for that I lament. Sunith Velho On 6/14/07, Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sunith, I read Selma's email about you with a pinch of salt but now I really believe that she is absolutely right. You espouse such balderdash, charming only because it is balderdash. Selma, how true! BTW, who died and made you the single expert in Goan history? I feel most amused when I read posts from people like yourself that claim that those who oppose their views are ignorant of Goan history. Come on, grow up. I know your name is Velho (which is Portuguese for old) and I always believe that people become wiser through the years but you are certainly taking too much advantage of your name, aren't you? I do not think you have achieved enough maturity yet to provide an healthy and acceptable argument to Selma's provocative post. So, here is hoping that you may find some maturity whilst reading whatever you are reading at Kings. Otherwise it will be a waste of time and money. Good luck! Paulo Colaco Dias.
[Goanet] Maybe BC is faced with Senile dementia....
--- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- With regards to advanced age and its strong correlation to senile dementia, BC provides the perfect example below BC writes: It is not uncommon for a non white or a person from the sub contintent usually called the paki to face racism in the UK. Maybe Sunith Velho has faced this situation for prolonged periods in London? Therefore his ranting against the Portuguese on Goanet is about white vs black - my opinion. With regards to the lamentable ignorance of some Goans, once again BC show his ignorance regarding the Pinto Revolt which to many historians is the first ethinic rebellion against colonial rule. He also shows further ignorance of statistics, because he fails to compare the number of Goans who hold Indian passports to those that have appllied for or hold Portuguese passports. BC writes: The below statement - rebellion / holding flags - make no sense. Thousands of Goans hold Portuguese citzenship. There are several requests published on Goanet wanting more info on the subject. Even hindus want to regain their pre 61 Portuguese status I usually try to avoid replying to his rambling, having been warned by some of his neighbours in Macau. I just couldn't let this pass. Sunith Velho P.S. Perhaps BC has some type of racist complex because to paraphrase him, it is not uncommon for a non white or a person from the sub contintent usually called the MONHE to face racism in Portugal
[Goanet] Goan elections
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.casadegoa.org --- Marsh Mendonca writes: I dont see any wrong in people parading with Portuguese Flags What you are saying is that it is OK to support a nation that tried to destroy the Hindu community and their culture by waving the flag of that nation in the face of our brothers. You are a poster boy for the case I'm trying to make. Indians in the Caribean supported the Lankans when Team India took a ealry flight home.Indians in the Caribean supported the Lankans when Team India took a ealry flight home. I see you slept through history class when colonialism was under discussion. Former French colonies in the middle east speak in french although Arabic is thier mother tongue. So do African nations the reason for this is these counties are sucessfull and most dream to migrate in these countries. And never woke up! Sunith Velho --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
[Goanet] Olav Athayde in big trouble....
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.casadegoa.org --- Mr. Athayde, You will now receive an email(CCed to one Brian S., allegedly a lawyer) from K3 threatening to sue you for defamation or libel. Bosco will also be threatened with a lawsuit for the second time. Unless this shameful incident is true that is. I was threatened with the same a few months ago for pointing out that for all his talk about elite insitutions such as IIT, K3 teaches in an institution ranked in the bottom 5% of any published engineering rankings. Cheers Sunith Velho Those who know Carmo from school days in Bandra will recall how he had been caught copying in a Board exam. If not for the intervention and 'influence' of the Muncipal Councillor of Bandra, late Mr. Oliver Andrade also from Velim, to 'cover' the scandal and get Carmo into IIT, he would have had no choice but to continue his education (if ever) in a patshallah in Bombay. That Carmo's picture adorns the St. Stanislaus ' Wall of Shame' is no surprise. --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] Goan elections
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.casadegoa.org --- Frederick, Parrikar had a lot of young members of the Catholic community campaigning for him this election as well because he admitted that he had made certain errors in judgement and most people think that he has no direct hand in what is perpetrated by some supporters of his party. To many Ponjekars(including myself), Parrikar as a person is no more communal than Churchill or Dinar Tarcar. As you may be aware Landscape Constructions(Dinar Tarcar's construction company) tried to get the Salesians evicted from their premises in Odxel by fraudulent means to build the illegal mega eyesore that now stands there. I can only imagine the furore it would have caused if he was a BJP candidate Similarly, when Churchill or Mickky forcibly stop other Goans from conducting business in coastal Salcette, we call it protecting Goan interests. As long as communal people like Churchill, Mickky and others exist in the Catholic heartland there will always be counterparts from other communities. And as long as some idiots from the Catholic community keep on taking out processions in support of the Portuguese football team or drive around with Portuguese flags on their cars, there will be other people who stereotype the whole community. Your good friend Robert Newman writes very interestingly about this imperial ploy. Regards Sunith Velho FN writes Reena, You should be asking the upper crust of Panjim that question :-) FN PS: I think the authoritarianism of the BJP and its hierarchy appeals to the Catholic elite, or many of them. A friend told me in awe and shock, Just you look at the rif raff that's roaming around with Dinar Tarcar in his campaign. --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] DNA Studies about Goa
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.casadegoa.org --- National Geographic and IBM run the Genographic Project which aims to map our entire genetic journey thus far. For those who can afford it, 99 USD buys you a kit which you use to send your DNA to them. You receive the results of your maternal or paternal genetic journey(one choice per kit) in a few weeks. For certain tribal groups, the kit is free. This project was recently in the news because tests on Muslim's in India debunked the nonsense being spread by right wing religious types, that most Indian Muslims are born of 'foreign invaders'. https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/about.html The centre in India is the Madurai Kamaraj University, under chief investigator Mr. Ramasamy Pitchappan. A much cheaper option would be to accept the fact that your genetic blueprint was 'intelligently designed' in Goa or the Garden of Eden. Indeed, we were repeatedly informed on this forum that these 'Scientist/Geneticist' characters can teach us as much about DNA as the local Padri/Pujari. Cheers, Sunith Velho Hello, I have heard that there are studies that cover the DNA of the entire world population including Goa and western India. Does anyone know where can I have access to the results concerning Goa? Thank you, Cl?udia Pereira.\ --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] Vote we must!
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html --- Excerpts from a weekly column in GT: If you, or anyone you know, accepted inducements from a candidate, be certain you owe no obligation. Vote with a free mind. There is nothing to fear. Is this an attempt to encourage people to accepts 'inducements' from some candidates and then vote for someone else? Shameful! As my cousin, Luis de Sequeira Nazareth, Regional Manager of ?Air France? from Yemen in West Asia to Pakistan in the East, writes from Dubai, Even if a voter has accepted everything from everyone, he must vote his own way. After all, the vote is by secret ballot. There?s no way a contestant will know who you cast your vote for. We must underscore this secrecy aspect of the ballot. Everyone knows it, but at times even simple things must be repeated to be reinforced in people?s minds, for fear of being forgotten. The Regional manager of Air France from Yemen in West Asia to Pakistan in the East has apparently lost touch with the functioning of the Goan democratic system or maybe elections in general. During the last elections, our richest politician made a substantial donation to a Sansthan and warned the people of that area that with the new electronic system, ward(vaddo) wide results can be easily known. If he lost that ward he threatened to have all the illegal extensions of the temple and their houses demolished. What needs to be 're-enforced' into people's mind is not the above disgusting nonsense, but the simple fact that if you do illegal stuff(like accepting inducements) yourself then stop complaining when your elected representatives do the same on a larger scale. Sunith Velho --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] Disposal of Garbage
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html --- Bosco, You seem to have cursed the Italians by comparing them to Goans, sometime ago on Goanet. Panjim's garbage curse has now descended on Naples, complete with a stinking piles of refuse and a row over disposal sites. http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2573305.ece Cheers Sunith --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] Creationism versus Evolution
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html --- FN writes: So, Sunith, what is your specific demand? My demands are as follows: *Ban all forms of Religious teaching in state funded schools. *Stop parading religious fiction as plausible scientifc theory in all schools(private and public) *Stop the using of schools(private and public) to brainwash young children with teachings based on dogmas, instead teach them that nothing is beyond the realm of reason. I have no problem with what Mario believes... (that's his problem).Even though I don't agree with him.Please tell me why I should be concerned about his belief I am concerned about his beliefs because, my spam filters(now that they are working) overflow every few days with his unsolicited mails. What he or his kind are doing to the US school system is none of my concern. If ID was being taught in Indian schools I would be concerned. Closer to home, what right wing religious zealots such as MM Joshi in India are trying to do to our education system because of their private (religious) beliefs is of great concern to me. Are you saying that I should not be concerned when an HRD minister believes astrology is a science and tries to force it into the science curriculum? If the next Economic Minsiter of India privately believes in numerology, should I share your attitude? Should we also assume that people's private beliefs have no bearing on the way they conduct themselves in public life? Selma has rightly pointed out the perils of an approach that condones illogical and sometimes dangerous beliefs in the name of being tolerant towards other cultures and religions. Sunith --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] Tolerating Creationism
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html --- FN writes: So, as far as these creationists don't block you on believing what you want, why should you evolutionists deny them of the same? Because creationism (or the Catholic version of it) is trying to creep its way into schools all over the world in the guise of a legitimate scientific theory and is being used to brainwash young children. There is as much evidence for Intelligent Design as there is for the theory that years ago a galactic warlord called Xenu rounded up 13.5 trillion beings from an overcrowded corner of the universe, dumping them on Earth before killing them with nuclear bombs(which is what Scientologists believe!). Sunith --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [Goanet] The credentials of some scientists
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html --- Richard S. Lindzen is willing to say anything that he is paid(funded) to. In 1991 he wrote an article entitled Passive Smoking: How Great a Hazard? in Consumer Research Magazine, where he claims that the risk to non-smokers has been overblown. The argument in that article are very similar to his argument against global warming which basically is we do not know enough yet(according to him). Is there a pattern here? Ross McKitrick(an economist with a grand total of 4 science publications) published a paper in 2004 arguing against current mathematical models for climate change, only for it to be pointed out that in his calculations he had mixed up degrees and radians. Regards Sunith Here is what Professor Richard S. Lindzen, an atmospheric physicist at MIT - that's a REAL scientist, folks - had to say on this issue: A Danish scientist, University of Copenhagen Professor Bjarne Andresen has analyzed the topic in collaboration with Canadian Professors Christopher Essex from the University of Western Ontario and Ross McKitrick of the University of Guelph
Re: [Goanet] The global responsibility
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html --- Mario Gouveia writes(about climate change): Each of us makes decisions that we feel are in our best interests from the options available to us. The options available to us are. 1. Current scientific consensus. 2. Published papers regarding climate change. 3. Ramblings of a person from small town USA, backed only by obscure magazine articles and a minute minority of researchers. I think I'll stick with options 12. Thank you ! Sunith
[Goanet] All the hots about a stupid Richard Gere hug
So let's be sensitive to people's cultural differences. We can't impose Western values on everyone and call those global standards! Where are these 'offended' and sensitive Indians when Shilpa Shetty does her vulgar 'jhatkas' and hip thrusts in the B-grade Bollywood films she is famous for. Probably fantasising in the back row! Before this hungama, there was the Mumbai police arresting young couples in Bandra for so called 'public indecency'. This is the same police force that has an extraordinarily high prevalence rate of HIV due to the amount of time they spend sleeping with prostitutes. India has the highest number of commercial sex workers in the whole world, even though prostitution is illegal. Applying simple demand/supply logic, it is quite easy to see through the 'Indian' culture that these morons are trying to portray. Loot the country, destroy the environment, visit prostitutes, rape women, commit female foeticide, keep caste divides alive but no PDA's or falling in love please! It's against our culture. Soli Sorabjee is right, we are becoming the laughing stock of the world. Sunith Velho --- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html ---
Re: [Goanet] Whats so great about Fundacao Parties?
Spot on. Fundacao Oriente parties are generally incredibly boring and generally filled with drunk old men reminiscing about Portuguese times with the infuriatingly smug director keeping them company. Why anyone would want to voluntarily subject themselves to such torture repeatedly beats me. Good wifes are also not generic to any particular caste nor class. These completely are self constructed barriers by those who wish to keep the caste divide alive(on both sides). Sunith Why would he want marriage proposals from impoverished Bamons, or the Fundacao parties, they maybe quite boring.
[Goanet] Whats so great about Fundacao Parties/reply to Cornel
Cornel, The upper castes all over India want to keep the divide alive for obvious reasons. India's illogical form of affirmative action(read reservations) has ensured that the erstwhile lower castes have a reason to perpetuate this ugly practice. After all if you convert to religions that do not provide official sanction for caste such as Buddhism or Christianity, you lose the right to benefits via the reservation route. Regardless of the fact that your economic situation remains the same. Strangely there is another group of people (mostly on this forum) who seek to keep the divide alive for no apparent reason. They are the kind who introduce words like Bamon, Chardo, Kharvi, Gulfie and Shippie into every debate. I think Selma and Carmo have a lifetime membership to this peculiar society. Best Regards Sunith Velho do both sides really try to keep the divide alive? This would be contraray to most theoretical and practical work on opposition and resistance to hegemony in relation to social and cultural power in given societies.However, you may well have something new for me to explore and I wait in anticipation!
Re: [Goanet] Goan shippies and gulfies
Bosco, I only derided the lack of motivation of most youngsters of the Catholic community while at school and the tendency of certain members of this forum to blame the education system for that. I pointed out that the opportunity to make money by doing menial labour in the Gulf or EUROPE was one of the prime reasons for this. Unfortunately Selma turned this into a caste debate and then a class debate entirely fabricated from the chip (suspended by a Fendi strap) that she carries on her shoulder. She further inroduced the words Gulfie and Shippie into her posts, thus giving K3+5garages+3BHK an outlet for his frustration. I still haven't got a response from Gllenda(who started this debate), Albert or Selma to my initial question as to why relatively poorer children from the hinterland regions of Goa outperform those from the more affluent coastal villages. Regards Sunith You see, this brouhaha began with our dear Selma, yes the same one who compared you to Dostoevsky, claiming that Cecil and Sunith derided Gulfees.
[Goanet] Mining Bachao
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Fred, It is worthwhile to note that the tax exemption is being sought for a valuable non-renewable resource that is being exported out of the country. There is no industry that compares in ecological destructiveness to mining. Its has taken over 50 years for our Central Government to come to its senses and the cess is just the begining of a phased ban on iron ore exports. Hope the cess used for the right purposes. Guess the dramatic increase in iron ore mining in Bellary and neighbouring areas has forced the governments hand. Regards Sunith You'll guys want India to (and believe India can) become a super power, and yet are unwilling to sacrifice a share of your untaxed-for-generations superprofits? How is this possible? Or, are sacrifices reserved only for those who have no belts to tighten? The response of the media in Goa over this issue is amazing. How can one support Goa Bachao at the same time as one backs Mining Bachao to the hilt? Interesting to see the mining lobby squeeze out free publicity even from Goanet! FN
Re: [Goanet] Goan Savages
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Goans clearly turn a blind eye and tacitly encourage the rampant molestation of young and poor bhaile kids by foreigners. This was painfully apparent in the NDTV expose. Do we actually expect someone to care about a cop robbing two strawberries from some unfortunate kid. Our eloquent pseudo-intellectuals call other Indians savages and worse. They come up with brilliant ideas like immigration based on surname(different laws for Shuklas and Modis) and labour control. All in the name of broad intellectual debate and I thought I would find the answers on this forum. It doesn't matter that the answers are staring everyone in the face. I guess paedophilia is the fault of those lamani kids. Who asked them to come to Goa in the first place and why was that strawberry seller on our beach? Sunith Velho P.S. I almost forgot. Strawberries are not a Goan fruit, traditional occupations are dying because of tourism! I urge any visitors who witness these dealings to take photos and send them into the authorities or yourselves and maybe something will be done.
Re: [Goanet] Smart Money v/s Dumb Money/ reply to Gilbert
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Gilbert, Your mail is 99% FICTION and 1% fact. It is the Birla's not the Tata's that you are referring to. It is the AV Birla Group(Hindalco) that bought the Canadian company Novelis Inc., Tata Steel bought Corus which is Anglo-Dutch. The industry is aluminium not steel. The Tata's made their fortune in Mumbai while the Birla's made theirs in Calcutta, the hub of the opium trade.The community in question is the Marwaris not Parsis. As any high school student will tell you, the Paris came from Persia to Gujarat not Mumbai and the Marwaris moved in large numbers from Rajasthan to Calcutta. AV Birla made his fortune in Jute Mills not buying ships or land and is rumoured to have a part in the Bristish Opium Trade(not Hashish or Liquor). May I suggest a little fact checking before posting? Sunith Velho Gilbert writes: Recently in the news was India's Tata Steel buying the steel company in Canada. A history of Tata(s) was outlined in the magazine story. It reports, the great-grandfather (who landed penniless in Bombay from Persia) made his first money with the British, smuggling hashish to China and then later boot-legging. Yet from that money, Tata bought (then built) the ships they traded, land in and around Bombay ... and India ... and the rest is history.
Re: [Goanet] Sesa Goa
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Bhau Chopsticks(BC), I'm not sure the Italians nor Japanese could run it better than the man who built the world's largest steel company from scratch. Using a fork and knife to put food in your hands, I'm afraid does not make you an expert in the steel industry. Sunith BC writes: As for Sesa Goa the company was run well by the Italics. They built the foundations for those rising share prices. Francis D' Melo tell these annadis something about Sesa.
Re: [Goanet] The corrupt Congressmen
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Sachin, I am intriuged by your continuous mention of a glowing post about Babush. Is it in the archives? I only ask this because Babush(long before he joined politics) was very (in)famous as the biggest illegal moneylender to the Goan real estate industry. He was also infamous for his strong arm tactics in collecting debts and was rumoured to own a flat in almost every new real estate project. Before his first election he not only made huge donations to Church reated activites but also to all the Sanvsthans in the Taleigao area. Just before I left Goa in September, the security guards(all non-Goans) who worked for my previous company said that he had arranged Ration Cards for all of them using the addresses of the rooms which they had rented. I wonder who would write a glowing tribute to him on this forum, and would like to read what was written. Regards Sunith A long time ago, there was a glowing post about Babush - but he seems to have fallen out of favour of people and also the Catholic church.
Re: [Goanet] K3 IIT bondollam
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Any reason why this didn't happen the last time Parrikar was CM. Guess you were not on the BJP payroll then. Why can't you start them now? Sunith we Goan IITians will start IIT Entrance Exam coaching classes all over Goa.
Re: [Goanet] Musings on the Bhaile influx
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Rajan, In your rush to pass the buck you forget that, the fellow from Andhra is tending to a fishing net of a Goan owned trawler and the Kashmiri rents from a Goan landlord. If you had to spend sometime in Anjuna and Vagator(Goa's main drug belt) you would see that all the small time drug dealers are Goans. Your views are from the perspective of the urban upper class Goan. You would be well advised to ask the stake holders i.e. the coastal people on what they think tourism has brought them. The beaches are not only meant for the upper classes or castes to enjoy. The ramponkars are not there to provide you with a better scenery. If a thesis needs to be written it should be based on how tourism has enabled the erstwhile backward castes to break through the social barrier. Tourism has not only dismantled traditional Goan occupations but has effectively dismantled the caste discrimination that was based on these occupations. I however share your frustration with the situation Goa is currently in, but the believe the blame is entirely ours. All the issues you mention are linked. Polticians(All Goans) convert land(owned by Goans) for Big Builders(mostly Goan) who then need cheap labour(Kannadigas, Tullus, etc) to construct mega projects to sell to mostly, rich non-Goans. Why blame the construction workers or appartment buyers. Does the Goan government legislate on the working conditions the construction companies need to provide their labourers with? Where are they supposed to go after the days work is done? Is the Government controling the land use patterns for real estate? If there were no appartments to buy we wouldn't have the louts from Delhi or hooligans from Manchester crowding the coast. You have to consider that well educated and travelled people such as yourself form a small minority of the total voting Goan population. A vast majority of Goans will vote for the Politician who will get illegal things done for them whether it is building an illegal compound wall or sanctioning a multi-crore project. However they are firm in the belief that illegalities should only be commited by residents of the village/vaddo and not anyone else. Is there any chance that someone like Dayanand Narvekar won't get relected? His(and all the rests') strategy is simple. Allow all residents of your constituency to commit gross illegalities for free(so that they re-elect you time and again) and then rake in money by taking bribes for projects in the rest of Goa. e.g. trying to sell of the G.M.C. to his cousin, forcing the Chairman of the Goa Board to manipulate the marksheets of his nephew and my classmate(never an outstanding student) in full public view to make sure he(and his brother) got into GMC, selling plots in Dona Paula IT park to his brother-in-law, the Socorro IT Park land scam, etc. Parrikar would be a good CM if he had absolute powers(like JFR Jacob during presidents rule). The fact of the matter is even he will compromise on his priciples when it comes to grabbing the CM's chair. I won't be surprised in Somnath Zuwarkar(a proven corrupt Congressman) stands on the BJP's Taleigao ticket against Babush(whom Parrkiar made a minister in the first place). Goans fully deserve what they are getting. Regards Sunith Velho I haven't yet said a word above on the deluge from the other segments of the economic spectrum. That is another big looming story which only the blind would deny. The penetration of Goa from this end is startling. There are now UPwallahs, Biharis, Oriyas in remote villages. Fellows from Andhra are now tending to the fishing nets in places you least expect them. Then the drugdealing Kashmiri rats who have bought into property along coastal areas around Candolim Calangute (by colluding with the local politicos) with their phony front stores. the Tibetans, the Lamanis - oh brother, Goa is getting it from every conceivable orifice. You wanted tourism - here it is. (There's a good PhD thesis waiting to be written how tourism has dismantled traditional Goan occupations within a generation.)
Re: [Goanet] Goa's educational system
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Bosco and Selma, I admit that my approach to this issue has been curt and migh have cause offence to some people. Santosh provided a much more balanced view. The point is essentially the same, social factors are affecting Goan education much more than the education system itself. Selma, your argument is purely emotional and unfortunately ignores what I initially highlighted in response to Albert and Gllenda, that children from the coastal Catholic belts are out performed at school by those from the hinterland despite the fact that they are economically better off and have acess to good schools. You do not provide an explanation for this nor have you provided a reason for my observation that people from other regions of Goa and India are making much more money from tourism in Goa than the locals from the coast. I would venture to say that this group of people is the most socially immobile(the way in which someone's adult outcomes are related to their circumstances as a child) or stagnant group currently resident in Goa. While Gllenda and Albert chose to blame church run schools for this, I blamed the parents and kids themselves. I did not mention the word Gulfie nor Shippie any where in my post. These were entirely fabricated from the huge chip Selma carries on her shoulder. I singled out youth who choose to do manual labour via those avenues instead of studying hard at school. There are many people who use these avenues as a genuine career paths like the Goan Chefs on Cruise Liners or Officers and Engineers on Merchant vessels. They definitely do not fall into the same category, just as Goan professionals in France cannot be grouped with the thousands of Goans there lifting crates. Regards Sunith Gilbert has provided an appropriate quote vis-a-vis inspiration/perspiration. Santosh has provided stats and explanations. Helga has provided some insights too. Sunith has been curt. And yes Selma, the underprivileged don't get an easy ride anywhere. And forever in human history there will always be an underpriviledged class - whether you live in Goa or Alabama.
Re: [Goanet] Don't tell Carmo how to eat
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] And his sons have a 50 million USD patent which the greedy currency trader Mervyn Lobo is trying to misappropriate for free in collusion with the devious Roland Francis. I have watched numerous documentaries on Florida(mostly of the Girls gone Wild series) and can attest that I have seen girls and boys there eat certain foods of each other with neither fork, spoon nor plate. Sunith K3 to Anna-Marie F.: Since I am a leading professor of engineering entrepreneurship and corporate consultant in this part of Florida and since my wife is the Vice-President of Finance at a major health care company in town which owns three hospitals, we are invited to fine dinner parties nearly every other day.
Re: [Goanet] Albert's Illogic
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Albert, You have attacked me, you have attached Selma, Glenda and I do not know how many people. I was not aware that you and Gllenda had bought the sole rights to criticise people and institutions on this forum.You have previously attacked the church, priests, schools and other Goanetters. You even went to the extent of sending me over 3 personal mails(which is never a good strategy. Ask K3!). I am amused to listen to your illogical arguments.If God had to make everyone scientist what would you eat plannets? Talking about logic, were we. If our goan schools were good from the primary why the hell you left Goa and went abroad ? Are we still discussing logic? You know very well that I was educated in Goa and I pointed out to you privately that my qualifications(all from Goa) were well recognised both by my previous company Hutch and by King's College. Rest assured that I will attack any further nonsense that you write, student life affords me too much idle time. Sunith
Re: [Goanet] Goan Educational System
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Selma, You long post still does not hide the fact that the only alternative you could think of (whether in jest or not) to a Goan youth being a waiter on a cruise liner was being a waiter in Goa. Please note that the coastal communities are not nearly as economically disadvantaged as many from the hinterland. A brief survey of professional colleges will show you that hinterland regions like Quepem, Sanvordem and Bicholim are much better represented than Calangute, Anjuna or Colva. You will also find that the middle class and lower middle class(economically speaking) vastly outnumber the upper middle class or rich in any professional Goan college, because they generally much more motivated to study. This is strange considering that Coastal regions have much better acccess to a good education thanks to Church run institutions and the vast majority of residents are definitely middle class or above. Why are most of the cries of outsiders taking over jobs and businesses from the coastal villages? Why are only Sashti taxi drivers complaining about lack of business? Whether you like to admit it or not a large portion of the Gulfies or shippies who choose to return to Goa buy tourist taxis or open general stores( both of which are in excess supply). And whether you like it or not a large portion of youth from the coast have no aspirations other than simply going abroad(in whatever role and by any means) and returning to do the same. When you talk about levelling the playing field betweeen the rich and the poor, just take a look around you anywhere in Goa and see how the erstwhile economically depressed classes now run most businesses and control most of the government while the coastal Catholic communities who have always had it better off are crumbling. Are we expected to wait till the education system is upto American standards to start working hard? Are hours spent attacking Church run schools going to improve anyone's prospects? Is spouting nonsensical generalities (a GU degree is not recognised anywhere abroad or our youth can't find jobs as CEO's with their pass class Bachelor's degrees) the way to go? Criticism like the kind Joe Vaz wrote can be constructive, but the nonsense we hear from Albert and Gllenda is nothing but a blame game. Unfortunately for them we know where the blame lies. Sunith
Re: [Goanet] Forks and Knives
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bernardo's snide comments(that backfired!) and the example provided by K3(since I was threatened by a libel lawsuit, I am unable to use this individuals name) about American table manners reminds me of a visiting person who I recently had lunch with(from BC's mothership). He was commenting as to how a posh couple sitting next to us didn't know to eat with a fork and knife. Here in England I had learned that at fancy or very formal dinners one does not cut a potato with a knife but does so with a fork.Also stuff like rice and mash potatoes are put on the outside of the fork(convex surface) and eaten. So I had to explain this to that peasant clown from that backward country. Thank God I'm from Bharat and we accept that people and cultures are different. Sunith P.S. If a Kashmiri Pandit can be considered a Bhayya then surely BC bhau can be considered a Maharashtrawadi.
Re: [Goanet] Goa's Educational system
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Selma, Your suggestion(sarcastic) that Goan youth should should stay in Goa serving cocktails and mocktails to lager louts is precisely the low aiming blinkered mentality that ails most Goans(especially the coastal Catholic community).Goa has four engineering colleges, a medical college, two law colleges and a management insitute. Yet you can't seem to see a Goan youth in any other role other than serving lager, in Goa or abroad. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why the Goans from the coast(predominantly Catholics) are reaping the least benefit of Goa's tourism boom or the Indian economic boom. If you can't think beyond being a waiter or tourist taxi driver then there is no point complaining that others now own all the restaurants, hotels, travel agenicies and shops. It is equally pointless to blame the education system when you can't find a job with a pass class non-professional degree. Open your eyes to the opportunities available to most motivated young Goans today, tourism included. Sunith Selma writes: It is those hapless fellows that make their way to the Gulf or work onboard ships. Instead, they should stay in Goa serving cocktails andmocktails to lager louts, so that their children will be inspired er motivated to do better in school.
Re: [Goanet] Goa's educational system
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gllenda, The Goan Government's loan(IEFL) is not only interest free but has a repayment period of upto seven years. The best part is that you only start paying back once you have secured a job or one year after completion of your course(whichever is earlier). No collateral is required, just an undertaking from the parents that they will pay off the loan incase the student defaults. THIS IS FOR EVERYONE!! The most popular(and expensive) course for higher studies in India is the MBA and it is of a very high standard in many colleges. It costs in the region of Rs. 3.5-5.0 lakhs in a top 20 college. The average salary for an MBA from the Goa Institute of Management(where a Goan domicile gets an extra 10 points for the admission process) this year was about Rs. 7 lakhs per annum with a placement rate of over 90 %. Encourage your youngsters to aim for the stars. If you aim for the rooftops you know where you are going to land. The problem with Goan education is that most students(especially Catholics from the Coastal belts) are lacking in motivation. Why bother with working hard in school when a job lifting crates in the Gulf, Paris or London awaits you. Exchange rates ensure that you can then do hard manual labour for the next fifteen years, return to your village, buy a gold chain/bracelet and open an STD booth/General store/Tourist taxi and bring up a your children with similar aims. The best part is then you get to complain about bhailes taking jobs in Goa forgetting that your husband himself was a 'vhoilo' in the Gulf. You use an internet connection provided by bhailes. Your cell phone company/computer manufacturer/cruise ship or merchant navy company/food products/drinks are all owned by bhailes. GET OVER IT!! Which school or higher secondary institution do yours and Albert's children go to. I'm sure if I'll be able to find numerous alumni from those same institutions who have gone on to do very well for themselves, especially if they are run by a Church or Sanvsthan. Are you up to the challenge?? Sunith Gllenda writes: All cannot take loans. All cannot go to america or australia for further studies. All cannot afford.
[Goanet] How others deal with diversity/ Re to Gabriel
Dear Gabriel, Have you not seen on Indian news channels, coverage of common people denouncing and burning effigies of government officials every other day. Hyde Park seemed pretty tame to me compared to the anti-Government protests that regularly occur in India. Witness the current ones in Delhi for a better picture. I also believe that anti-Country(as opposed to anti Government) propaganda is taken very seriously in all democracies. If you made anti-UK speeches in Hyde park, you would not get away with it lightly(neither from the public nor the government). I wonder if you can freely and openly do the same in your country of residence. I believe the consitution of the vibrant democracy you choose to live in cosidered its indigenous people as part of the fauna till the 1970's and more recently race riots broke out over the use of a beach! Yet you seem to condescendingly question the way Indians are dealing with our diversity, us being probably the most diverse country in the world. Your ideas of India and Indian democracy seem to be based less on fact and more on some sort of paranoia. Regards Sunith Velho --- Gabriel de Figueiredo wrote: Wouldn't you be jailed and or severely beaten up in India if you carried out anti-India propaganda today? India is still sensitive even though it may proclaim to be democratic. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Initiating, Participating and Soapboxing/ reply to Cecil
Cecil writes: Please conclusively, or at least credibly, prove that: 1) The divorce rate in Goa is spiralling 2) That pre and extra-marital sex is as prevalent in Goa as anywhere in the West. Hi Cecil, Please stop beating up on Selma. She was probably comparing the above statistics in Goa to similar ones in her own youth. I cannot comment on extra-marital sex, as very few of my friends are married and also because adults are more discreet about these matters than youngsters. However having lived in a couple of big cities in India and abroad, I must say that the pre-marital sex is much rarer in Goa than some of our big cities in the rest of India, Mumbai or Bangalore (even Jaipur!) for instance. To compare it to London or Europe would be a wishful thinking(for Goan youngsters atleast!). There are no published statstics to back up my above statements but they are based on the statistics of un-married European/Indian/Goan friends of mine as well as my own astute observations in this matter :)). These are in no way conclusive but are quite credible. Regards Sunith Velho ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Goanet's Three Generations/response to Frederick
Hi Roland, Contrary to your opinion, I think women are extremely logical and calculating(more so than most men!) in most matters, except when these involve their spouses/boyfriends or clothes.You daughter's present/future suitors will soon learn that! Also from your post it seems like you are not the only one in your family who is telling it as he sees it, your daughter has inherited his trait too. Regards Sunith Roland writes: She, Victoria, is equally intelligent, a little too too logical for a woman but defintely politically correct and blah blah, blah, just like the majority of the fairer species. When I rant at home about the driving habits of the Chinese or the lack of family values of the West Indians or the pronunciations of the Filipinos, she is immediately on my case, saying dad, you are a racist, dad you are too old, or dad you're out of it.. He on the other hand, will immediately butt in saying dad is just telling it as he sees it.. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Mauxi's Kani - now from China/response to Roland
Hi Roland, It is a bit extreme to brand all Portuguese Red wines(Vinho Tinto) as being of no consequence in taste or bouquet. The problem is that the Portuguese wines that are exported to other countries (the most famous one being Mateus Rose) are generally of the worst quality and are more suited to cooking! The Red Wines from the Alentejo region in Portugal are definitely comparable to the best Riojas from Spain, it would be rare to come across them anywhere but a speciality wine store. The Germans do the same with their beer, they keep the best for themselves and export the rest. It is nearly impossible to get Augustiner or Hofbrau outside of Germany though these are the local favourites in Munich(missing from Gabe's wonderful list of beers!). Regards Sunith Velho Roland writes: With regard to Portuguese Moscatel, Grandjo and Tinto they being not available in the Gulf liquor stores, it wasn't until I came to Canada that I saw they are really of no consequence in taste, bouquet or by most other wine standards. The Ports and Sherrys from Portugal and Spain are world class though I suspect the brands of these two fortified spirits available in Goa were far inferior to the norm. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Use of Siddis/ reply to Carmo
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20061102/5963bdff/attachment.ksh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] A woman without a culture of her own/response to Oscar
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Oscar, If Goanet was made up of intolerant bigots such as yourself there would be nothing for RKN to be thankful for. Please remember he is as much a part of this forum as you, me or the other 7000 Goanetters. If you are looking to score some brownie points with like minded intolerant people such as yourself, I suggest you look elsewhere. Keep your painfully aged ideas of Goan Air/Land where they belong(in the dustbins of the past). Regards Sunith Velho --- Oscar Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. RKN - You should be privileged to be a subscriber of Goanet. Grow up and be indebted that you are privy to our Goan Digest, Goan air and our properties in Goa. How many of us are your subscribers, if you have a Digest of your own! Oscar Lobo ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Misinformation regarding cancer/response to Cornel
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details Hi Cornel, Thank you for your kind words but I must say Mario's posts have no effect on me neither personally nor professionally. Unfortunately he will never grasp the difference between knowledge and wisdom because he has none of the former and laughably claims to possess the latter. This is obvious from his complete inability to answer a simple question which I will now repeat. 1. Can anyone quote the journal and article here Gilbert's ficticious mice experiment with its nonsensical conclusions was published ?? It really is disappointing to see an educated(?) adult behave in the childish manner that Mario sometimes does. Regards Sunith Velho Cornel writes: How utterly preposterous and disgraceful, on a community site for a poster to scornfully say to a young Indian intending overseas student that: as a developing scholar who fancies himself to have a half-way decent command of English but still hasn't grasped the difference between knowledge and wisdom ...etc? ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Foreign Students Account for Nearly 80% of SE Doctorates Awarded in America
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details Hi Carmo, You really do have difficulty in providing facts when asked for, and it is you who continue to embarass yourself in this forum.I have provided you with the latest official statsics from the National Science foundation but you have provided me with a research article that says just (quote)Indeed, in a number of highly ranked engineering schools, international students account for nearly 80 percent of doctoral students, while in fields such as law they rank as low as one percent(endquote) How does this prove to anyone but the mentally challeneged that of the 900 doctorates awarded in computer science 80 % are awared to Indians? You further provide proof of your ignorance when you claim that Information Science and Computer Science are wholly unrelated. In most colleges in India as well as abroad the degree is called Computer and Information Sciences. I have done my Bachelors in Engineering in India and am doing my Masters in the UK, I am well aware of techinical courses and degrees. Then we are given this gem ...I quoted was restricted to the very highly skilled field of COMPUTER SCIENCE - instead you referred to aggregates of the relatively easier fields of computer/ electrical engineering which are typically dominated by white Americans.. Do you ever read what you write?? Can you provide any data to support your claim that Computer Science is more difficult than Computer/Electrical engineering?? Are you aware that software companies in India provide first preference to Computer Engineers rather than BSc./MSc graduates in Computer Science. I had asked you to wake up to the real world once before, but obviously your eyes are still shut. Finally, your complete ignorance is revelaled in your below statement (quote)But for us IITians, our educated guesses and speculations are as good or better than painstaking research done by you non-engineers.(quote) There is no use arguing with such garbage! Did your brain perhaps get a bit mushy while praciticing hanging upside down from crosses or is the foam annd froth still in your eyes. Regards Sunith Velho ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Misinformation regarding cancer
Hi Mario, Can you please follow your own advice and stop boring us with repeated mails on this topic(especially since there is no trash section on Goanet to divert boring mails to!). By your logic you are even less qualified to comment on this topic than Santosh. You are neither a medic and nor a researcher, being a cancer survivor does not make you an authority on the scientific aspect of this topic either. Here in College, I have access to vast databases of scientific papers(some of the largest in the world) and I could not find a single experiment in the last few years that matched Gilbert's FICTITIOUS mouse experiment with its nonsensical conclusions. It is more likely he read about the experiment in a newspaper rather than a scientific journal. In PLAIN English let me once again ask. Can you or Gilbert please provide for the benefit of the scientists on this forum the name and date of the journal where the mouse experiment (carried out a few years ago) that Gilbert was referring to was published? I hope you don't wriggle out of this simple question by quoting the same experiment Dr. Jayant referred to which was carried out in the seventies and not a few years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the first time either of you heard about the scientific details of that experiment was through Dr Jayant's post. It was very easy to find the one Dr. Jayant mentioned because he is obviously well versed in research methodologies and publishing papers. Hence he provides references, unlike Gilbert who was completely unable to do so when asked(for obvious reasons!). Regards Sunith Velho Mario Goveia writes: Here is what Dr. Helekar, a medical researcher who is not qualified to treat any cancer patients had said Again, my advice as a cancer survivor who faced a significant probability of not surviving a rare form of cancer for more than 5 years is that if you develop symptoms of ANY cancer, please consult a practicing oncologist WITH EXPERIENCE IN YOUR FORM OF CANCER. The last people you want to waste your precious time on are academics and researchers ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Section 377/reply to Selma
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Selma(or the person holding her ransom!), Should single mothers also be denied this right to raise children? They too do not fall in the category of a two-gender family. Is the government then going to legislate and control fundamental biological processes? Why don't us Indians just invite the Chinese to take us over and save us all this trouble of the democracy experiment? What about divorce then. Once a couple has children, should divorce be banned? Since obviously it is not best for the emotional well being of a child to be brought up in shared/single custody. If a murderer marries a drug dealer, they are allowed to have and raise kids, are we going to deny that right to well intentioned same sex couples. Many of these kids will come from adoption homes(in the case of male homosexuals). Are adoption homes better for a child's emotional well being than two loving parents? Heterosexual couples can have kids and leave them at adoption homes, but homosexuals can't adopt and raise them? Where is the consistency in your argument? What are you actually trying to say? Are you just portraying yourself as a defender of equal rights because it is fashionable or because you truly believe in equality regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation? You strongly object to the word bonkmaro and then to come out with these views that are clearly homophobic(not withstanding your legendary faghag status). There is a difference between being politically correct and being liberal in thought. Regards Sunith Velho P.S. Please do not accuse me of distorting your views. They are clearly mentioned under. Selma writes: However, the right to raise children is another matter. I for one, hope that India does not encourage any such moves. Not because I think homosexuals are incapable of raising good moral human beings, but because I earnestly feel that the emotional well being of a child is best served in a two-gender family. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Distortion of posts on Goanet
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Santosh, The problem in arguing with Gilbert is that the point of his posts keeps changing(now it happens in the same post, amazing!), that is why I once warned you against it. He is completely incapable of arguing point-counter point, and chooses instead to launch into long sermons interspersed with self patronising comments, bigotry and the occasional inapt use of Konkani phrases(as we have seen in the past use of bhamto, petoita muree, fugdi, etc). This time around everyone was first informed (quote) often Old grandmothers' observations are on or close to the mark. While their explanations for the observations may be unknown or not necessarily be correct, only a pseudo-scientist will disregard their observations.(unquote) In the very next line, following the description of the mice study/experiment we are further informed(quote)Thus the grandmother's observation was accurate.(end of quote) We were later warned (quote) So old grand-mothers' tales are not to be ignored except at our own peril! (end of quote) In between these two preaching's was the only informative part of the post which was (quote) The current explanation for this (statistical significant) observation is that the surgery depresses the immune system, allowing the tumours to now behave and grow even more aggressively. Hence cancer surgery has undergone and is undergoing significant shift. (end of quote) To a lay person there were clearly TWO points, no distortion at all !. The first was regarding latest cancer treatment(very informative). The next one was regarding the validation of a long standing grandmother's observation by a scientific experiment(pure nonsense!). It was clearly this second point you wanted to contradict and I have clearly seen that as has anyone with a half-decent command of the English language. Regards Sunith Velho Santosh writes: I humbly request Gilbert not to put words in my mouth or to point to Frederick's or anyone else's mischaracterization of my views. And I ask readers not to rely on someone else's opinion of what I said or implied. I trust Gilbert would try to understand and respect this simple principle of any public discourse. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Inconvenient Truth /response to Nasci
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Nasci, That was one of the most bigoted and ill-informed pieces of writing I have read in a long time. The purpose of discussion is to learn and not to let of steam. Your prejudices are too deep rooted and you will notice that this is one of the reasons no one bothers to reply to any of your posts. I will stop doing so from this post onwards. Regards Sunith Velho Can you not see the point I have been trying to make, on this forum, whenever I can; that India's backwardness in almost all respects, is due to it's 'unholy and weird culture' that is intrinsically against any change for the better; . Thank you for reading me; its been good letting off steam! Nasci Caldeira Melbourne, Down Under. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Inconvenient Truth /response to Nasci
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Nasci, I always try to put issues in their proper context, after all India as a self governed territory is just 59 years old, and Goa much younger. Do not mistake this for defensiveness. I also prefer solutions rather than monotonous rants about problems. I am sure you are aware of the old saying If you are not part of the solution... Interestingly, when they asked Gandhiji what he thought about Western civilisation he replied They could use some!. The first time I visited my grandmother's house in Velim, I was horrified at the pig toilet they used there. Is it because we in Panjim were civilised and those in Velim hopeless, or just a matter of putting things in their proper context. Thanks for your kind wishes. Regards Sunith Velho Nasci Writes: Nasci feels and it does look like, you have already returned from UK, at least in mind and spirit; considering that you have now accepted some of the 'Inconvenient Truth' and are no longer absurdly defensive about some of Goan/Indian failures. You are now truly enlightened! Just like Mohandas Gandhi did when he left his chappals and his hopeless Gujerat and went to study in England and became enlightened! Do you know that this Gandhi found it tough to comprehend that one can do his daily excretions in a clean and tiled toilet rather than under the banyan tree! ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] An Incovenient truth/Mario
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Mario writes: What continues to confound me, however, is the utter lack of civic sense and respect in India for the physical space of the general public and one's neighbors. This manifests itself in the urinating and defecating in public, the spitting and throwing of thrash wherever one can get away with it and the strange transformation from sane to insane as soon as a car door closes behind the driver. Sunith responds: Actually what is truly confounding is how Indians are obsessed with personal and domestic hygiene, and once out of their house doors all sense of hygiene is lost. The traffic situation is completely beyond my understanding. We have the highest accident rate in the world and everyone knows too many people die in traffic accidents here, but no one cares. I know of at least 5 class mates and many more family members and acquaintances who have died in vehicle accidents (an abnormal figure anywhere else in the world), yet adherence to traffic rules has only gotten worse. Witness the massive protests against wearing of helmets and compulsory seat belts. Goans have proven that wearing helmets causes hair loss, and hair loss is one of the prime causes of motor cycle related deaths the world over! I remember when the protests against helmets were going on, my company driver told me of an incident in his village where a dumper truck(weighing over 10 tons) ran over a fellow villager, and that the helmet did nothing to save his life. So obviously helmets were useless and just another money making ploy. Maybe it has something to do with the Indian brain and the sound of shutting of doors! Once a door is shut(car or house) reason and intelligence disappear. Regards Sunith Velho ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Are Goans Homophobe/response to Mario
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Hi Mario, I think you could end this argument by simply clarifying what stuffing it in your face would involve. Most people seem to have interpreted it as, you support homosexuality as long as you dont see homosexuals displaying affection in public. If that is true and you have the same position on heterosexuals displaying affection in public, then no one can accuse you of being a homophobe. I for one interpreted it as, you have no problem with homosexuals as long as they don't hit on you... :)) Fair enough, I guess. Regards Sunith Velho ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Inconvenient truths/ Final response to Filomena Giese
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Hi Filomena, While you didn't say abolish in the article this is what you wrote in a follow up response I will let the reader decide who is more elitist- me, who believes that all slums should be abolished in today's wealthy India . (end of quote) The word menace I believe was used by another netter in response to your article. (That post is what made me respond!). Just clarifying. I do not wish to continue this argument any further. Regards Sunith Velho Filomena writes: You have read more into what I wrote in my list of observations on today's Goa than was actually there. You had me callling slums a menace in an earlier post. Now you imply to the reader that I had proposed that slums be abolished. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Valmikis article
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Floriano writes: Only 'Chakas' will cover for the likes of Sanjiths. (I believe Chaka - Chak was derived from the word 'CHAKA' meaning Enuch, Izdo) Sunith responds: That is really mature of you Mr. Floriano! (Moderators please note the use of foul language to back an illogical argument) Now lets return to my orginal point. I am yet to witness the ANY good work done by all those who insulted Sanjith and the campaign on this forum, unless of course lengthy mails, petty abuse and completely un-feasible ideas can be counted as work. Regards Sunith Velho - Original Message - From: Sunith Velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Valmiki's article Dear Clinton, Don't worry, most residents of Panjim are well aware of the benefits of the chak-a-chak campaign. The best part of it was the super participation of school students in the campaign made possible entirely by the hard work of youngsters such as yourself. We all know the reason why Panjim is stinking again and it does not involve Sanjith nor the campaign. I am yet to witness the ANY good work done by all those who insulted Sanjith and the campaign on this forum, unless of course lengthy mails, petty abuse and completely un-feasible ideas can be counted as work. Also please stop providing statistics and figures as they will be refuted by illogical random observations and a few personal insults :)) Keep up the brilliant environmental awareness work you are doing and ignore the ramblings of a few individuals frustrated by the sudden lack of special attention and molly coddling they face. Regards Sunith Velho I take the below the belt punch at the chaka chak campaign personally as I was one of the few that was involved in that campaign. We spend a number of days and nights, often skipping lunches to get the programme underway. 25 schools were invited, 300 students actively participated in a door to door awareness campaign, mass awareness material like educational videos and information sheets was generated, a 4 day exhibition on alternates to plastics was organized, and the outcome of all this was increased awareness, and improved segregation at source. Quality of segregation was 60% before the campaign, and after, it was 80 -90%. The reason Panjim stinks is because of an unconcerned government and uncaring citizens. Don?t just blame Sanjit because of a personal matter between you and him. Acknowledge the fact that he worked towards the solution instead of just sitting quiet. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Inconvenient Truths/ reponse to Selma
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Hi Selma, All this encouragement is unnecessary. As any brain researcher will tell you, the best work done by scientists/researchers is before they reach the age of 30. So I have a distinct advantage :)) There was an ad-campaign on Indian TV called the power of one. It had various people like The Mahatma, Mother Theresa, MLK Jr. who have single handedly increased awareness and brought about change that impacted millions of lives. Rudy Giuliani might fit into that category also. However these personalities are a rare combination of will power AND ability. I am completely incapable of any such actions. I believe in the power of the masses, and would rather work towards empowering them through education or support of causes that seek to do so. I don't think I'll be plagiarising any of your ideas in college papers unless you can provide me with some brilliantly analytical insights into telecommunications :)) Regards Sunith Velho Selma writes: First I applaud you because as young as you are, you've certainly held your own in this argument, that too being up against a Dotor, a formidable Roland and lovable me :)) While education and information are at the core of change, I would like to cite Rudy Giuliani as an example of how change can occur through sheer will power. Sometimes, we need to be propelled by need and winged by desire to bring about change. (Now don't you go plagiarising my quote for one of your term papers, this is an original. Good luck in London :)) ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] An Inconvenient Truth - Must authority turn a blind eye/ Sunith's reponse
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Roland, Its not that I don't see your point, its just that I don't agree with it from a Goan perspective. I'll leave it at that. Quality of life and happiness will always remain subjective, so I cant argue on who has the better life me or you. Walking through forests makes me happy, while walking through well organised concrete jungles might make you. One quick response to your question though. Roland writes: Do you wish to say Sunith, that if everyone thinks speeding and drunk-driving is harmless and indulges in it, despite the law, the cops are not going to be held responsible for enforcing those laws? I shall be every interested in your reply. Sunith responds: In Goa most people think drunk-driving(driving above the alcohol limit) is harmless. When you are stopped by the cops at the night checks(nakabandi), no alcohol tests are done though legislation allows for that. The point I'm trying to make is who is going to hold the cops responsible for this. The voters/citizens should be the ones, but because they think its harmless this is simply not an issue. Hence all the alcometers are being used by the cops to check if their colleagues are drunk on duty (because the higher ups/people are aware that drinking on duty is irresponsible). Point made! Thanks for the opportunity. Regards Sunith Velho ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Inconvenient truths about Goa/Sunith
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Filomena, Finally we are on the same page. I never had a problem with your observations per se but just how they were worded. Rehabilitation sounds so much better than abolish doesn't it. And acknowledging poverty as the issue instead of slum structures is far more balanced. Actually what China does is limit the amount of migration into the booming cities. If you are from the country side you have to have a special pass to be in the cities(They stole Selma's brilliant idea!). Hence they have far fewer problems related to urban housing than us. This is sometimes referred to as a democracy tax Indians pay vis-a-vis China. Though I have never been to China, friends who were lucky enough to visit the countryside(it requires special permission to do so) say that there is a bigger rich-poor divide there than in India. The Maoists in India are more commonly referred to as Naxalites and have thus far restricted themselves to the countryside. Thanks for the many replies. Regards Sunith Velho - Original Message - From: Filomena Giese [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sunith Velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Inconvenient truths about Goa/Sunith 3. Your 3 questions - 1. Where do you intend to send the slum dwellers once the slums are abolished? - Improving services, sanitation, housing in slums, and paying better wages is not the same as abolishing slums. For decades, peasants and the urban poor in India have been agitating against the oppression and exploitation of the poor. They are called Maoists I believe and they use terrorism to force results. 2. Is it not better to focus on fixing the villages rather than demolishing structures in cities? - China has a policy to do exactly this. Maybe India has a policy like this. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] An Inconvenient truth
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Well said Mario, I couldn't have put it better myself ! This is what I have been struggling to try and make people understand (especially those living abroad). The USA has allowed a Goan immigrant such as yourself to fulfil your aspirations. Would it not be incredibly selfish if you were to deny that opportunity to a fellow Indian who wishes to do the same in Goa. I believe the fact that you have lived and worked in the rest of India (in areas besides the Goan dominated Bandra, Dhobitalao,etc) has to do with your balanced and sensible views on this subject. Regards Sunith Velho Mario writes: As one who considers his ancestry to be Indian first and Goan second, I accept this as a fact of India's development, partly caused by Goans themselves as they have followed their individual dreams across India and the world. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Valmiki's article
Dear Clinton, Don't worry, most residents of Panjim are well aware of the benefits of the chak-a-chak campaign. The best part of it was the super participation of school students in the campaign made possible entirely by the hard work of youngsters such as yourself. We all know the reason why Panjim is stinking again and it does not involve Sanjith nor the campaign. I am yet to witness the ANY good work done by all those who insulted Sanjith and the campaign on this forum, unless of course lengthy mails, petty abuse and completely un-feasible ideas can be counted as work. Also please stop providing statistics and figures as they will be refuted by illogical random observations and a few personal insults :)) Keep up the brilliant environmental awareness work you are doing and ignore the ramblings of a few individuals frustrated by the sudden lack of special attention and molly coddling they face. Regards Sunith Velho I take the below the belt punch at the chaka chak campaign personally as I was one of the few that was involved in that campaign. We spend a number of days and nights, often skipping lunches to get the programme underway. 25 schools were invited, 300 students actively participated in a door to door awareness campaign, mass awareness material like educational videos and information sheets was generated, a 4 day exhibition on alternates to plastics was organized, and the outcome of all this was increased awareness, and improved segregation at source. Quality of segregation was 60% before the campaign, and after, it was 80 -90%. The reason Panjim stinks is because of an unconcerned government and uncaring citizens. Don?t just blame Sanjit because of a personal matter between you and him. Acknowledge the fact that he worked towards the solution instead of just sitting quiet. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Sleeping with windows open/response to Velho
Dear Selma, I agree it was a bit extreme on my part to lump your idea of labour control along with organ harvesting. Please note that I completely agree(ungrudgingly) that the West today is as you state more organised, more civically responsible, more administratively efficient and more politically transparent than systems currently operating in Goa. However these systems cannot be magically transplanted into Goa(as long as it is a democracy), they are an end-result of a long process of societal development. If you look back to London or New York in the early 1900's you will find that political corruption, ghettos/slums, environmental degradation, etc were very present. Expat goans such as yourself however were not. Is this perhaps the reason for the numerous quick-fix solutions being dished out on this forum? Also, please provide in defence of your labour control idea one democratic country where this idea has been successfully implemented. How on earth would we manage to achieve this in India? Wouldn't similar restrictions have to be placed on Goans moving to other parts of India. This would result in my whole engineering batch of 60 students(all Goans) being unemployed. What sense would that make? Frankly speaking, organ harvesting can be implemented far more easily than labour control :)) India has changed dramatically since the 1990's. As I have mentioned before, goan professionals are known all over India to be intelligent, hardworking and possessing great communication skills. This is a welcome change from the sussegad tab goans are usually burdened with. There is no more amche and bhaile/voile among young professionals, because most of them are working outside Goa. Hence please expect strong opposition in the future to any labour control idea. The good old days argument was specific to the above subject line, please do not take it personally. Regards Sunith Velho - Original Message - From: Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sunith Velho [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sleeping with windows open/response to Velho Dear Velho, Because you have lumped my brilliant idea :)) alongwith organ harvesting, I feel duty bound to defend it. First of all, I notice that any post, opinion or advice by expat Goans has an immediate knee-jerk reaction from Goans in Goa. There is no need to carry your bag of chips so tediously into every argument. Expat Goans may for most part be alienated from the realities of Goa, but they mean well. Furthermore, you have to, however grudgingly, accept the fact that the West is more organised, more civically responsible, more administratively efficient and more politically transparent than systems currently operating in Goa. It is to this end, that expats wonder why these same systems cannot be transplanted into Goa. Ofcourse the reality is that Goa doesn't have the infrastructure in terms of the discipline, will or institutions that are needed to make possible the order that resides in the West. It is close-minded of you to disregard every suggestion made based purely on the premise that expats wish either for the good ole days or put forward suggestions out of touch with actuality. Some of the suggestions may have merit, some maybe workable within a few years and yes some of them are to be disregarded but surely every suggestion merits discussion at least and not outright disdain. selma --- --- Sunith Velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Development will bring with it numerous changes(good and bad). It is or duty to see that the cost to the environment and society is not excessive. It is towards that aim we must strive. Ideas such as visa for Indians, labour control agencies, organ harvesting, mass emigration to the west, return to fascist justice, etc. are pretty lame besides being completely un-feasible. Regards Sunith Velho __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] An Inconconvenient Truth
Dear Roland, Thanks for your reply. First of all this is free forum. Anyone can comment on any topic. If some thought goes behind the suggestions, all the better. Let me address your concerns point wise Roland writes: Having said that, Filomena Giese's original post was merely about observations on the situation prevailing in Goa albeit from smoky western lenses.However, sometimes from an outside and therefore unbiased outlook, we must tell it as we see it, whether people resident there feel defensive or not, as you are so obviously feeling. Sunith responds: My main objection to the article was the observation that slums need to be eradicated because they spoil scenic beauty. No mention was made about poverty. The article was definitely biased against non-Goans and the poor. So I reject your contention that views from outside are unbiased. What would I have to be defensive about? I am well aware that there are regions of the world much more developed than Goa. I am also aware that there are a number of issues that need to be addressed in Goa, but these are not independent from the rest of India's problems. I am further aware that when I was in Goa, I had a lifestyle that compared to the rich and famous here in London(despite being neither particularly rich nor famous!). Roland writes: For example you quickly sidestep the issue of enforcement of existing legislation with telling us how civic attitudes are slowly being made to change from school levels upwards. Sunith responds: These issues are not independent. Law enforcement is done by human beings not machines. If no one thinks littering is wrong, the cops are not going to be held responsible for not enforcing anti-littering laws. It works like this. Children get aware through education at school. They then become voters, bureaucrats or politicians. If all three sections are civically aware, positive change follows. If children grow up civically unaware, what you get is the present generation of voters, bureaucrats and politicians( Uncaring and selfish!). Have you noticed the massive awareness campaigns that accompany recycling/garbage campaigns in the West and how these mostly feature children(sometimes making fun of adults)? Why are none of the western voices on this forum studying how these problems were solved in their cities and giving suggestions based on that. Why are magical cures being propagated (e.g. Politicians must be made more accountable... how it is to be done in today's context no one mentions). That is why when Mario comments on economics I study the suggestions(though not fully agree with them!). Roland writes: Iinculcating civic awareness relies more on idealism which by itself is not a bad thing, but teaching it to slumdwellers eking out a iving, builders, crooks, and corrupt bureaucrats and politicians who are in the terrible majority takes a long long time. Time that a quickly depreciating Goa cannot afford. Sunith responds: I completely disagree. Ask Clinton Vaz how environmental awareness is increasing exponentially among school kids today. See how in turn how kids are making their parents more aware. No idealism, just plain reality. Of course no one from abroad sees this in their two week holiday in Goa. Is anyone aware that almost 1/3 of Goa is protected forest? Is anyone aware of efforts being made to preserve ecology(forest, beaches, turtles,..) by brilliant forest officials such as Paresh Porob. The coastal regions are developing exactly the type of economies the locals there desire. Time is not running out for anyone except the nostalgic goan who wishes for the Goa of his youth. Things are not perfect there, but please stop with the doomsday predictions. Regards Sunith Velho Dear Sunith, Usually I do not comment on situations prevailing in Goa, since although I wish well for my ancestral land, I do believe that it is those who are living there who must either accept or change what prevails. We overseas Goans must help when it is asked for, or help when we see the need for it, without telling Goans who have a stake in living there, how to go about it. Having said that, Filomena Giese's original post was merely about observations on the situation prevailing in Goa albeit from smoky western lenses. I say 'smoky' because what we consider unacceptable due to our own experiences here, is either acceptable or not worth the efforts to change. for those living in those situations. However, sometimes from an outside and therefore unbiased outlook, we must tell it as we see it, whether people resident there feel defensive or not, as you are so obviously feeling. For example you quickly sidestep the issue of enforcement of existing legislation with telling us how civic attitudes are slowly being made to change from school levels upwards. Practically speaking, when you are in school, your outlook is sheltered and 'staged' by your authorities, for the good no doubt. However
Re: [Goanet] Sleeping with windows open
Dear Frederick, This is the point I have been trying to make. Isolated observations such as the ones mentioned below are no use as indicators in judging the overall health of a society. Hence my use of the world mindless to describe any attempts to do so. You will notice how Goa is now being described as unliveableand in a downward spiral in this forum. The basis for these statement are a few random observations that barely scratch the surface of the issues facing Goa today. Funnily most of the voices advocating the above position are pining for the village life of their youth all while living in massive cities in already developed countries. Most of them were absent during the periods when their countries were in transition from developing countries to developed ones.They also conveniently ignore the fact that it is the Goa of old that caused numerous professionals to migrate to the West in search of better prospects. Development will bring with it numerous changes(good and bad). It is or duty to see that the cost to the environment and society is not excessive. It is towards that aim we must strive. Ideas such as visa for Indians, labour control agencies, organ harvesting, mass emigration to the west, return to fascist justice, etc. are pretty lame besides being completely un-feasible. Regards Sunith Velho Is sleeping with windows open the only basis of judging how peaceful, just, and sustainable a society is? Or, is the cleanliness of the hospitals a better indicator? This is not a defence for post-1961 prone corruption and misrule, but one can't overlook that a semi-Fascist dictatorship has pros and cons which are quite different from those of a capitalist-if-somewhat-more-egalitarian region where the rulers are hard to reign in, and the sickness of affluenza (overall growing affluence) has come at the cost of the environment, over-consumption, and selfishness. FN ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Contacto Goa
Dear Paulo, Thanks for your reply. If Contacto Goa was made for the purposes you state then it has definitely achieved its goals. Regarding your assertion that there are Goans who deny Portuguese influence in Goa, I beg to differ. It is not the Portuguese influence that they deny, it is the commonly held misconception that life was better under the Portuguese that they deny. It is mindless statements like In Portuguese times we used to sleep with windows wide open or justice was on the spot. that are the stones I believe need to be kicked out from our shoes. We will never progress if we keep pandering to our erstwhile masters. Before you label me a lusophbe(like some netters erroneously label Frederick), let me mention that my girlfriend is Portuguese and many of my closest friends are also Portuguese. Regards Sunith Velho Now in London, UK! (First ImpressionsIts brilliantly multi cultural!) Paulo writes: Dear Sunith, I am not sure if the idea behind the Contacto Goa programme was to give an accurate representation of the Goa of today. I very much doubt that. In my opinion, and having watched other Contacto programmes (Like Contacto Macau, for example), I think the idea of the programme is to show a Portuguese link or a Portuguese connection in the places where the Portuguese were in the past or where large Portuguese communities live today (the latter is addressed in other series like for example Contacto America). The problem is that some of our Goans refuse to understand this. They seem to think the programme was for Goa or for Goans all over the world to watch and, therefore, it should represent what Goa is today. Personally, I think the producers (all Indians or of Indian origin) have done a great job but like Livia says very well, there will always be individuals amongst us Goans that live in denial and for whom this Portuguese influence in Goa is still and will always be a stone in their shoes that hurts them now and again and they try to kick it out by all means, unsuccessfully! Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias London - UK ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Science as a religion (Frederick FN Noronha)
Dear Fredrick, You very rightly state that if people wish to believe anything, let them do so, as long as it makes them better persons in the real world, what's wrong?. It should be remembered that, this coin too has two sides. I believe that this debate has seen mocking of belief's on both sides. You could start a whole new debate about the long list of myths promoted by science but always remember that Science is one of the schemes of thought that is most open to criticism and change(through logical argument). This is more than can be said of the various dogmas that are the causes of the strife we see in the world today. Also your statement that the understanding of Science is still incomplete seems a bit off the mark. It is the understanding of the universe/world through science that is incomplete not Science itself. The so called conflict between religion and science sometimes begins when over zealous religionists try to use science as an intellectual crutch to validate/promote their beliefs. This naturally results in a strong backlash from scientists. We have seen numerous examples of this on Goanet. Regards Sunith Velho The current state of neuroscientific understanding is, may I suggest, wholly irrelevant to people's beliefs and faiths. So why mock them? People should be free to believe in whatever they choose, even if it is not validated by that modern God With Feet Of Clay, Science. Firstly, the understanding of Science is still incomplete, 'work in progress' and subject to corrections. More importantly, these are special fields of endeavour so it's unfair to judge one by the other. Lastly, if people wish to believe anything, let them do so, as long as it makes them better persons in the real world, what's wrong? Maybe we should start searching out the long list of myths promoted by the world of Science... but that's way off-topic. FN ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Contacto Goa
Dear Livia, It would be wrong to say that Mario Cabral e Sa's appreciation of the program Contacto Goa in Goa Today has been also greatly appreciated by one and all. I know of many Goans who think that the programme was a completely inaccurate representaion of the Goa of today and that Mario's appreciation for the program was unwarranted. For me, it seemed more like saudades captured on film Unfortunately I have not met my good friend Desmond Nazareth lately, so I couldn't pick his brain about the motives/idea behind making the series. Regards Sunith Velho Livia writes: There are always Devika Sequeiras, Lambert Mascarenhas, Mario Cabral e Sas (his appreciation of the program Contacto Goa in Goa Today has been also greatly appreciated by one and all) who have not been able to remove that stone in their shoes which hurts them now and again and they try to kick it out by all means. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
