[Hornlist] Re:Mouthpiece to lead-pipe fit
Hi Cameron, This has now been corrected. Walter made mouthpieces in batches using hand made cutters. Each batch was slightly different, despite his skills on the lathe. Cutters would wear, tolerance might be slightly off from batch to batch. We have designed and built a semi-automated tool holder/cutting device and now use a more precise lathe than Walter's. We also use commercial carbide steel cutters now. Every mouthpiece is identical. The only problems, and very slight, we've been having are with the plater varying the plate from batch to batch. Even with that, They are still within .001 tolerance. I'll have pictures/explanations on the site once I get a round tuit. Any body ever see those on E-bay? KB In a message dated 5/2/2009 1:00:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:30:50 EDT, kendallbe...@aol.com writes: Yes, Tina, if you purchase a Lawson lead-pipe, you can get a Lawson mouthpiece that will fit perfectly and match the acoustic. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I have not always found this to be true. During the many years that I played on a Lawson Fourier, my various Lawson mouthpieces went into the receiver at different depths. But the combination of Lawson leadpipe and mouthpiece was certainly an excellent one! Sincerely, Cameron Kopf **Eat Great Lose Weight FASTER! Start the South Beach Diet Online - FREE Profile! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221822996x1201398599/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213623126%3B35100424% 3Bk) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpiece to lead-pipe fit (was Re: Receiver size on Selman double horn)
Yes, Tina, if you purchase a Lawson lead-pipe, you can get a Lawson mouthpiece that will fit perfectly and match the acoustic. We ream our receivers to the standard 0 Morse taper and make our mouthpiece shanks with the same taper. This is the generally accepted standard, at least in the US. The Selman may be using a different taper or maybe it's just inconsistent crap. I've seen one and it was the latter but it was very inexpensive. That said, they would have to pay me to own one. Our mouthpiece shanks are milled to fit .625 into our lead-pipe. If your mouthpiece is going in more than .5 you may be beyond the venturi. As to fit in general, the lead-pipe receiver wears over time due to inserting and removing the mouthpiece. If it doesn't fit perfectly, it's better that it does not go in far enough rather than too far, as Paul mentioned. It can be difficult to repair worn lead-pipes as the cap does not always come off cleanly in order to swedge it down and then ream it to proper taper. Replacing the pipe is always an option. Another is to put a new, larger shank on the mouthpiece or a thin metal sleeve over the old shank. Mason Jones used the same Kruspe Horn and mouthpiece for many years and had Mr. Dell'Osa lead the shank of his mouthpiece from time to time to keep it fitting properly. Later on, when he met Walter, Walt was able to repair the pipe and put a new shank on his mouthpiece. Some European horns have a larger receiver. It's 0 Morse taper but at a larger angle. The Vienna horn is larger than that. We are making our mouthpieces to that spec as well now and they fit the German makes with the larger hole the same distance as on a US made horn. Back to mangling metal. KB In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:13:12 -0400 from: Tina Barkan tina.bar...@gmail.com subject: Re: [Hornlist] Receiver size on Selman double horn Paul - You say, The end of the mouthpiece should ideally come right to the beginning of the ventura. If these line up, they provide a taper that expands from the bore of the mouthpiece to the cylindrical tubing of the horn without gaps or obstructions. If the negative taper can vary from 1/2 to 1 long is there anyway to know for sure that the end of the mouthpiece actually comes right to the beginning of the ventura? If one buys a custom leadpipe does it come with it's own custom mouthpiece? I'm guessing but it seems to me that the length of the negative taper may be one of the specs that custom leadpipe manufacturers change in order to make their great leadpipes. All of the stock mouthpiece manufacturers must be making some assumption about the length of the negative taper and this length may not correspond to the length of the negative taper of a custom leadpipe. Thanks, Tina On Apr 29, 2009, at 11:09 PM, corno...@aol.com wrote: HI Steve, Here is a very basic answer to your question. A lead pipe has three primary physical components that are important to its acoustical design. They are: A. the negative taper. This is the 1st section (aprox. 1/2 to 1 long) that the mouthpiece fits into. It is called the negative taper because, to accept the taper of the mouthpiece shank, the taper measures from large to smaller. This is in opposition to the main mouthpipe taper, which tapers from smaller to larger. B. The Ventura. This is the smallest cross section measurement of the mouthpipe, where the negative taper and the main taper meet. C. The main taper of the mouthpipe. This is the portion of the mouthpipe taper that goes from the ventura to the beginning of the cylindrical tubing. The end of the mouthpiece should ideally come right to the beginning of the ventura. If these line up, they provide a taper that expands from the bore of the mouthpiece to the cylindrical tubing of the horn without gaps or obstructions. If the mouthpiece goes past the ventura, or not far enough into the mouthpipe to meet it, response and intonation will generally be degraded. Paul Navarro Custom Horn **Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1001265 75x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Correction to my last post - Mouthpiece to lead-pipe fit (was Selman etc)
I made a typo: I should have written if your mouthpiece goes in further than .75 (not .5) that might be too far. Sorry! KB **Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Kendall Betts in Recital
I'd like to invite everyone to my Lecture/Demonstration/Recital at The University of New Hampshire. Monday, May 4, 2009 at 8:00 PM Johnson Theater, Paul Creative Arts Center 25 College Ave. Durham, NH 03824 (Directions: _http://tinyurl.com/PCACUNH_ (http://tinyurl.com/PCACUNH) ) A HISTORY of the HORN KENDALL BETTS, Conch Shell, Digeridoo, Cow Horn, Coach Horn, Post Horn, Trompe de Chasse, Natural, Single and Double Horns ARLENE KIES, Pianist Solo Horn Piece TBA Naturally - There's a Buzz in the Air! Explanations and Demonstrations of Conch Shell, Cow Horn, Digeridoo Get the Message - Castles and Camaraderie! Explanations and Demonstrations of Coach Horn, Post Horn, Trompe de Chasse British Hunting Calls, German Hunting Calls, French Hunting Calls Matinee sur le Bois - La Fleur - Trompe de Chasse Let's go Inside - There's Music to be Made! Explanation and Demonstration of Natural Horns Prelude, Theme and Variations - Rossini - c.1830 Tabard Natural Horn Industry is the Driving Force - Higher, Louder, Faster! Explanations and Demonstations of Single Horns Villanelle - Dukas - c.1900 Boosey Cor a Pistons Divertissement on Schubert Themes - Lewy - Vienna Horn Song without Words - F. Strauss - Single B Horn Modern Marvels - Double your Pleasure, Double your Fun! Explanation and Demonstrations of Double Horns Various Orchestral Excerpts - 1917 Kruspe Horner Model Various Hollywood Excerpts - 1938 Conn 8D Sonata No. 3 - Wilder - 2004 Lawson Fourier **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814855x1201410739/aol?red ir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=A prilfooter426NO62) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Kendall Betts Master Class at Boston University
For those of you in the Greater Boston/New England area, I'll be doing a master class at Boston University tomorrow, Saturday April 11, 2009, 10 AM - 12 PM. College of Fine Arts Auditorium 855 Commonwealth Ave., Boston, MA Focus will be on fundamentals and using your practice time to maximum advantage. Sorry for the very short notice. I just found out this is free and open to the public. Prof. IMG will not be there as he is now serving time for Carrying a Concealed Mellophone Across State Lines Without a Permit. I hope to see you there! Kendall Betts **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Yes, but very indirectly. KB In a message dated 4/2/2009 1:01:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 3 date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 17:54:55 -0500 from: Bill Gross william.s.gr...@gmail.com subject: RE: [Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn Sid Fitch wasn't involved in this was he? **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Sorry, Jerry. I can't come to Mccomb as it conflicts w/KBHC. We are planning, though, to make a home version of the program for consumers. The problem is writing it to work on PC and Mac as this is written in a special new programming language we developed especially for horn players called LIPUX (similar to LINUX). Cost will be a factor as well, since I will want to maximize profits like Microsoft, Adobe, Intuit et al do. I think we can bring it in, including the digital-microphonic input-output pickup, which we now call the French horn Attenuating Recording Color Emitter along with the Horn Output Analog Xenometer (which is essential to have in your hand in the bell) for under $2500 but that hardware is going to be expensive. I'll keep everyone posted and thanks again! KB In a message dated 4/2/2009 1:01:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 4 date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:31:02 EDT from: jerryol...@aol.com subject: Re: [Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn Hi Kendall, This is exciting. Will you be demonstrating this program at the IHS Symposium in Macomb this summer? Best regards,Jerry in Kansas City **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Steve!!! You actually hit on an important part of this research! I had no idea others were so involved in this sort of thing. Part of the software package is the Musical And Scientific Hornalgorhythmitator or MASH for short. To be exact, it takes approximately 4,584 samples to do the open F horn. You can figure the amount for a full double from there. That is only the number inside the tubing, not including testing in and outside of the hall for what colors the projected sound emits. Thanks again for your interest! KB In a message dated 4/2/2009 1:01:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 5 date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:11:31 -0700 from: Steve Haflich s...@franz.com subject: [Hornlist] Re: [horn] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn Kendall -- As you move the probe down the tube, does it also measure the changing proof of the mash condensate, or just the color? Exactly how many times did you guys sample? **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Mark - Sid does not play the horn any more. He is retired here in Sugar Hill and coaches Little League Fast Pitch Girls Softball. He's still got some stuff in his arm, but he wore out his lip years ago. He and Prof. IMG hang out from time to time but they always get in fights since Sid likes the Yankees and the Prof. is now a die-hard Red Sox fan. KB In a message dated 4/2/2009 1:01:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 6 date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:18:47 EDT from: marksue...@aol.com subject: Re: [Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn Does Sid still play the horn? He's getting on up there now, isn't he? **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Hey Herb, YES! And you will demonstrate every 100,000th of an inch of the entire Lexicon for us at KBHC! See you in June! KB In a message dated 4/2/2009 1:01:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 8 date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:27:34 -0700 (PDT) from: Herbert Foster herb_fos...@yahoo.com subject: Re: [Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn Ah hah! That must be the clam production area. Over how many 100,000ths of an inch does it extend? Will there be a demonstration at KBHC? Herb Foster **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Hey Carl, I suppose there might be a correlation between this and perfect pitch. So far, we have only been able to test, as I mentioned with the sound color at the hand in the bell, imperfect pitch. As to natural horns, I have run some tests late last night on a conch shell, English coach horn, Shofar, Zimbabwean KuDu horn, Digeredoo, rams horn, cow horn, car horn and SA Kelp horn with interesting results. The colors are fascinating on all of these but beyond the embouchure, always blood red, I can find no real correlation yet. As the sampling went on, I did notice a change in speech pattern, though, so you may be on to something there! Today, I'll compare Italian and American Makes. The Prof. loaned me his Anborg and his Sansone. This will be interesting, especially if the colors match between the front bell and the rear bell on the Sansone with the F extension exactly with those of the open F side of the Anborg. I'll keep you posted and may have to tap your expertise again about the LIPUX software. KB In a message dated 4/3/2009 1:00:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 9 date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:27:05 -0700 from: Carl Ek car...@hotmail.com subject: [Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn Bruce, Kendall, This is extremely interesting. The algorithm you have = developed to display the=20 tonal spectrum could directly relate to a currently unsolved human = mystery: perfect pitch It is well known that people with perfect pitch tend to describe their = skill in terms of seeing the pitch as a colour. Here is an article explaining some other issues, take note that pitch = perceptions have been found to vary based on cultural background, the theory proposed that it directly relates to = native language and speech patterns: http://discovermagazine.com/2001/dec/featbiology Okay, now, to keep this discussion Horn related, I am curious if the = colours are different based on different=20 cultural Horn makers, for example, German vs. American .=20 and if you have done research on say, French Natural horns vs. South = Asian variants. Regards, Carl Ek Mooselip Canada **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
William, I'm glad you caught that. I'm not a computer pro and I clammed. I confused operating system with programming language. Our new LIPUX is a programming language. Perhaps when our company expands with our anticipated success, you might consider us in your future? KB In a message dated 4/4/2009 9:53:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gretchenz...@gmail.com writes: -Original Message- From: valkh...@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:48:27 To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: New Acoustical Testing of the Horn I suppose it's probably too late to offer it, but I work as a software developer on Linux/LAMP systems. I've done some harmonic computation scripts a few years ago - but they aren't really that complicated. My speciality now is with large databases and complex object oriented/ORM design. I had ideas for other music related scripts but I just never got them off of the ground. Since Linux is an OS, I'm not sure what you mean by LIPUX as a language similar to linux. Are you saying it's similar to shell scripting? Java? -William In a message dated 4/4/2009 9:09:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kendallbe...@aol.com writes: Sorry, Jerry. I can't come to Mccomb as it conflicts w/KBHC. We are planning, though, to make a home version of the program for consumers. The problem is writing it to work on PC and Mac as this is written in a special new programming language we developed especially for horn players called LIPUX (similar to LINUX). Cost will be a factor as well, since I will want to maximize profits like Microsoft, Adobe, Intuit et al do. I think we can bring it in, including the digital-microphonic input-output pickup, which we now call the French horn Attenuating Recording Color Emitter along with the Horn Output Analog Xenometer (which is essential to have in your hand in the bell) for under $2500 but that hardware is going to be expensive. I'll keep everyone posted and thanks again! KB **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Dear Hornlisters, I am very excited about the news I will convey to you here and now! Bruce Lawson and I have been working on this for some time and finally, today, made a major breakthrough in the acoustic analysis of the horn! Bruce has written new software, called SoundStill, that can analyze the sound at any point in the tubing of the instrument. Using our prototype digital-microphonic input-output pickup, we can literally make sound stand still right on the computer screen! The program shows a clear graphic picture of what the tubing is doing to the sound at that particular moment that it travels past the selected point. Far beyond mere Fourier transform sound wave spectrum analysis, which only analyzes what we can hear, this actually shows the exact correlation between the diameter of the tubing, material of its construction, weight (thickness) of the material, hardness/softness of the material, acoustical parameters in relation to the length of tubing, relationships generated by different dynamic (decibel) levels and both acoustic and psycho-acoustic relationships between harmonics generated at any frequency relative to the nodal point being analyzed or, in the case of analyzing a non-nodal point, the acoustic-reference harmonic nearest to that point. For example, I played a third space C on both the F and B sides of a 300,000 series Elkhart Conn 28D with an original NY Giardinelli C8 mouthpiece. We sampled the sound at .0314159 increments throughout the length of the instrument. What we found was that the sound was drastically different for each sample. For instance, at .0314159 in the mouthpiece just past the embouchure, the sound picture was a vibrant blood red! At 3.14159 in the leadpipe (yellow brass w/nickel silver cap) the sound picture was a sort of desert taupe where at 12.56636 (yellow brass) the sound picture was a deep, Egyptian brown! Further down the pike in the nickel silver valve section, the picture was a brilliant Romanesque yellow! At 138.22996 (where my hand rests in the yellow brass bell flare) the picture was a cloudy, clammy gray on both sides of the horn! We had no idea that this old piece of junk had such colorful sounds and I can't wait to test a new horn! I will keep you appraised of further developments and any musical or non-musical findings that might surface. Thank you! Kendall **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Asleep at the Horn
How right you are, Carl! I've worked with people whom I wish had been asleep and not played! But there is no cymbal crash there. That was the sound of wrinkling Holton though it may have been a Yamaha. I'm doing an acoustical test at the shop on Monday to determine what kind of horn it was. Spectrum analysis never fails! Also, somebody on this or the nannied list who works in Mexico mentioned he had heard this guy was drunk and immediately fired. What, no MFM protection down there? You'd think he would have bribed the personnel manager. Or, maybe he and the conductor had been out BEFORE the concert? KB Carl Ek wrote: He is more competent than you think...A) No clamsB) Not too loud, no = overblowing.C) Awesome timing of his horn falling at 0:52 right = when the cymbal crashes !!! TIGHT !!!Carl in MooselipThu, 26 Mar 2009 = 16:17:26 EDT from: KendallBetts at aol.com subject: [Hornlist] Asleep at the Horn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DYx6N5lGlbZY **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Asleep at the Horn
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx6N5lGlbZYfeature=email_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx6N5lGlbZYfeature=email) **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] A Conductor to Have a Drink With After the Concert?
_http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7152308_ (http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7152308) **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Archaic Kimchee
Confucius say: Herb who sub in youth orchestra Foster learning amongst young players. HF wrote: I often wonder what the audience thinks of my white beard and hair when I fill in the horn section in the mostly Chinese youth orchestra. **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Lawson horns (was: North East Horn Workshop)
Dear Daniel, Thank you for your interest and questions. Our current Classical Model 804C is our version of a medium belled horn. This model made in red brass or yellow brass with yellow brass or ambronze bell flare would be what many European players would like. We have several over there currently played by professionals in Norway, Denmark and Switzerland and I have had inquiries of late from other Europeans. As to American Sound, we are a large and diverse community of horn players here. Our sounds all have European roots, though, and the two schools of playing here evolved primarily from students of Gumpert. Anton Horner was an F horn player and promoted the silver large belled Kruspe. Hence the 8D, etc. Others such as Bruno Jaenicke and Willem Valkenier were B horn players, and preferred narrower belled brass horns. Hence the Geyer, Conn 6D (now 10D) etc. That's the story in a nutshell. Walter and Bruce Lawson successfully made designs over the years based on those roots. Their goal was to improve sound, response, intonation with those models listed above as the primary starting points as well as the Alex 103. Lawson horns are refinements, not just copies, and Walter purposely designed the wrap to be unique in the world. The early models were listed as small, medium, medium large and large. The small belled horns, similar to an Alex 103 played quite well and I think Ted Thayer used one for a while in the National Symphony, coming from an Alex 103. He switched to the Classical when it came out and the general consensus was the Classical was a definite improvement for this type of horn. We could build that again but we are busy enough making the current models. For Alex 103 players, our lead-pipes are worth a try and I have some being play-tested now by members of a German orchestra. The Lawson's had other Alex playing Europeans switch to our pipes in the past and I've converted Alex's for American customers this year already. The medium and medium large horns sold quite well, especially the medium large. Barry Tuckwell used a medium large Lawson for several years before signing on with Holton. Many Alex and Geyer type players also liked those. The large horn was most popular with many being made and still being used. The Kruspe/Conn type players primarily went for those. The medium large and large horns evolved into the present Fourier Model 804F with changes in the tapers, multi-boring in the straight sections and the V2 leadpipe. This is our version of a Kruspe type horn. The small and medium horns evolved into the present Classical model 804C, with the above listed changes done in a way to give the instrument more resistance, what some people call slotting, I believe. This is our version of a Geyer type horn. We now offer many different bell flares with the goal of satisfying the various sound needs of different individuals. I anticipate having aftermarket flares available soon for makes not using the Alex type screw ring. As to the Berlin Philharmonic, players of that caliber can play on anything! I know they currently have a close relationship with Alexander. Previously, they were using Yamaha for a number of years. I would relish a chance, though, for them to try our equipment and I would welcome their opinions! I've made crooks with our tapers for my own natural and Vienna horns and this is something I hope to market in the future, as well. I know you play a Rauch, and we have made pipes for those as well. Please contact me off-list if you would like to arrange a trial. Best wishes, Kendall Betts In a message dated 3/12/2009 1:01:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 7 date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:00:25 +0100 from: daniel.canaru...@unifi.it subject: [Hornlist] Lawson horns (was: North East Horn Workshop) Dear Kendall, I have never had an opportunity of trying a Lawson, ad unfortunately I =20 can't cross the ocean right now. I have a question, though. I =20 understand, from various sources, that Lawson horns are mainly =20 designed to yield the big American sound. Is it true? Or, do you =20 produce different models, some of them suited for (say) a German type =20 of sound? Do you think a Lawson horn could be played in the Berliner =20 Philharmoniker? (Yes, I know: it's the player, not the horn--I apologize if my =20 question is too equipment-minded...) Daniel **Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0005) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] North East Horn Workshop
Dear Horn Listers: Please allow me this opportunity to invite those of you attending the NEHW at Ithaca College this weekend to visit the Lawson Horns / Kendall Betts Horn Camp exhibits in room 3304 in the Whalen Center. I will have the full inventory of Lawson demonstration models, mouthpieces, lead-pipes, and bell flares on display and available for testing. I have extensive stock of all mouthpiece cups and rims and will offer them at a discount for workshop attendees. Any order for a lead-pipe or bell flare made there will receive a discount as well. I also will have a used Lawson Model 8211 Descant for sale. This horn is owned by noted NY free-lancer, Bobby Routch, and is in as new condition. Here is an opportunity to purchase a fine instrument without a wait for delivery next year. I will also have information on KBHC. I welcome your visit and I will be happy to answer any questions you might have regarding Lawson Horns, KBHC and horn lore in general. All that said, this looks to be a stellar workshop with headliners Gail Williams, Adam Unsworth and the American Horn Quartet. I hope to see you in Ithaca! Sincerely, Kendall Betts **Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0005) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Lube Jobs
Yes and no, I agree and disagree completely with what everyone has said. Seriously, if you value your instrument, you should keep it properly lubricated including the rotors. What you use is not as important as how often you use it. I recommend petroleum based products including the recent synthetics. I'm not a fan of animal based fats on a horn, nor teflon or silicone. There are plenty of commercial products out there. Most are the same or similar formulas. One slide grease brand mentioned here is actually repackaged automotive lubricant. Lately, I've been using Valvolene Synthetic grease in the shop. I paid $3.97 for the stuff at WalMart. That container will last for a year or more in the shop. For the average player, a tub of grease should last a lifetime. If you need a small container to carry in your case, put some in an old Carmex or cosmetic jar. Valve oils are kerosene based. Triple refined odorless lamp oil is a good valve oil base. Most rotor and key oils are 5W mineral oil. Additives for viscosity/anti-corrosiveness, etc. are readily available at your local auto store. The right mixture will give you a superior lubricant. You can make your own valve oil with the right ingredients very cheaply if you wish. The bottles cost more than the ingredients even when oil was a gazillion dollars per barrel. Oh no, I just gave away the Professor's secrets! Well, the World's Largest Valve Oil Factory will probably have to close, anyway, if the economy doesn't improve! BTW, French Horn Hero will be available in a solar powered green version, as well. KB **Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0005) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Cording
Jeremy wrote: In Kendall's example, he was doing it for a jingle. I suppose the recording engineer could be spared his life for the travesty of auto-tuning a horn player, but only this once. Actually, he auto-tuned everybody that day. Even the trombones were in tune! I still wonder if woodwinds had been around if that would have stopped him cold, though. Most of the commercial recording engineers, writers, producers, etc. I worked for over 40 years, have been spared their lives many times. In fact, they do very well, thank you very much, when it comes to making a living. Some of the classical ones, engineers and producers, alike, are the ones who should not be spared. Amazing how a great orchestra in a great hall playing the way it's supposed to play with tons of talent and years of experience can come out on disk sounding like a DCI group with 15 mics on the percussion, 12 on the trumpets and none on everyone else. I once confronted a grammy award winning genius why that was so, and he told me That's what audiophiles want. So much for what musicians want in their work. One producer even edited out a six bar bassoon solo. I don't know why but perhaps his score reading skills were sub-par. I know for a fact that the conductor never listened to the final edit as he was already fed up with that crew's inability to make the orchestra sound realistic in the hall. That recording was nominated and won a grammy that year for Best Engineering. The Prof's new gizmo works great. He's added the Auto-Transposition Foot Pedal and the Virtual Psycho-Acoustic Practice Simulator, which is designed to lessen guilt by non-association. He's now working on the Hand-Stopped-Stop-Mute-Fibre-Board-Carbon-Fibre-Stone-Lined-Wooden-Echo-Tone-Omni-Mute Differentiationator. I keep telling him that no one will know the difference, but he insists on being true to the score. It also will take the guesswork out of being confused. He's hoping to get it on the market before football season so that many serious horn students will stay home doing French Horn Hero instead of playing mellophone and ruing what little chops they have in the first place. He just got a heck of a marketing deal from Circuit City, to boot! KB **Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0005) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Mason Jones
Bob, are you sure about this? The Coleman recording is on RCA Victor - LSC-2982. It's coupled with 3 other works, all by Coleman. I have that LP. I don't have the Schoenberg recording but I do recall it was on Columbia. I never bought it because I once asked John DeLancie about it and he said it wasn't worth listening to. I later heard that they sight read it on the session with no rehearsals and just cut and pasted until it was done. The Coleman is novel but not particularly interesting. A quick check of Arkivmusic.com showed neither recording currently available. KB In a message dated 2/23/2009 1:02:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 12 date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:59:05 -0800 from: Robert Dickow dic...@uidaho.edu subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Mason Jones Dan, I'm still looking for the Columbia Records recording of the Philly Quintet with Mason of course, playing the Schoenberg on side 1 and the Ornette Coleman Quintet (!!) on the other. Seems to be a hard one to find, because I sure can't. Bob Dickow Lionel Hampton School of Music University of Idaho **Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filingncid=emlcntusyelp0004) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Recording Story
I heard that yelled at Ormandy a few times followed by a direct object. KB In a message dated 2/23/2009 1:02:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:49:48 -0600 from: Richard irich...@flash.net subject: [Hornlist] Recording story Joe Scarpelli reported: When they were recording, if Mason [Jones] heard something he didn't like in the Horn section, he would kick over his stand which would of course force them to start over. It wasn't clear if this was a onetime occurrence or multiple. and Kendell Betts related other ways the Philadelphia Orchestra members would stop a recording. But I heard from a fellow I met at an audition about a recording session in St. Louis, where he was playing extra. Carl Schiebler messed up a passage and didn't want iot to go on the recording. In order to get the orchestra to stop, he yelled f...@#k at the top of his lungs. They stopped. Richard Hirsh **Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filingncid=emlcntusyelp0004) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Recording Techniques
Thanks for your input, Jeremy. I must respectfully disagree, though, with your assertion that hacks can't make good recordings. I've heard and worked with many so-called artists both pop and classical whose live playing or singing did not live up to their recordings. I've been on many recording sessions where this was the result though not in the major orchestras I've played in except with a slight few soloists who got take after take to fix their mediocre crap. As to digital editing, the last jingle date I was on in MN before my retirement was a track job adding brass to a synthesized track of rhythm and strings. 4 each of trumpets, trombones and horns recording separately. We did a few takes of each spot which were pretty much the same except for the length as they were making 15, 30 and 60 second spots. Fairly difficult mid-upper register mostly unison and octave horn parts. When we were told Finished, thank you, there was one long note that was obviously out of tune on the last take and I asked Don't you think we need another pass on that? No. We got it thanks. I then went into the booth, gave my opinion again and asked to hear it. The engineer played it and bent the intonation digitally with a slider on the board until the offending passage was perfectly in tune. He also showed me how he could change tempi and fix ensemble without changing the pitch. I was amazed, to say the least. I also think that your story about 120 takes for a 3.5 minute piece appears to validate, rather than dispute, what I am saying. It took a professional horn section about 20 minutes to record the 1.75 minutes of music I mention above, sight read and rather difficult. How long did the session(s) go for your 120 takes? My teacher, Prof. I.M Gestopftmitscheist, is coming out soon with his new electronic product French Horn Hero which will give all a chance to play great without even a lesson or a Kopprasch book! The horn that comes with the package will be available in Geyer, Kruspe, Sansone Single 5V Bb, Schmidt, Alex 103, Conn 6D, Wienerhorn and Lawson wraps with a choice of finishes including aged, unlacquered yellow brass and Automotive Rose Tinted Metallic Clear Coat. If successful, he will release Wagner Tube Hero and Viola Hero later on. The software includes all the repertoire for the horn ever written, including movie tracks, performed in various venues. Titles will be priced individually or in packages and there will be several plug-ins available. Build Your Own Horn is one and Design a Really Deep Mouthpiece is another. Another plug-in will allow you to build your own hall or recording studio with any acoustic, decor and audience members that you want, including groupies and parents. If you want the Virtual Conductor Plug-in, that will be a significant extra expense for pretty much nothing in the way of help but these conductors will never say things to you like Late, Shorter, or Try not to crack. The Prof. be demonstrating the beta version of this at KBHC with regular customers from Wal-Mart in Littleton performing. Most of them only have one or two teeth so this will show that it really works! KB In a message dated 2/23/2009 1:02:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 3 date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:55:50 -0500 from: Jeremy Cucco jer...@sublymerecords.com subject: RE: [Hornlist] Recording Techniques, Was: RE: Mason Jones Passes For original text, see below... The process of recording and editing are actually quite similar to the days of analog. In fact, the processes really haven't changed. Some producers and engineers may do things a little differently (some of which is driven by the technology but most is not), but overall, the processes haven't changed. Whenever I do a recording either as the engineer or producer (or both), I still think of editing as the act of cutting and splicing, just like I were still using a razor and tape. Granted, crossfades between sections are vastly easier with digital technology, but this never factors into my thinking. I've worked with conductors that decide how we're going to run the session and many others who simply say - you're the Producer/Engineer, you run the session. In most cases, we'll do a single or maybe 2 runs through of the entire work. We'll mark areas that need special attention and then we'll go back and fix those areas. It's not uncommon to get 2 solid, full-length takes and then about 50 takes for each 2-3 minute section of the work. However, let me kindly and respectfully put to bed one rumor - A hack cannot put out a good recording. A good recording is made good by its impeccable playing, balance, phrasing, finesse and professionalism. If you don't have these things to begin with, the recording engineer cannot put them into the recording. While 30 takes
[Hornlist] Re: Mason Jones Passes
I never heard this story about Mason, directly or personally but if it came from Fred Hinger, there must be truth in it. In the old days of recording the orchestra would play until someone clammed, not necessarily a horn player. If the conductor didn't hear it, you, as a player were supposed to confess by raising your hand. If the conductor didn't see you and stop, yelling or more hands going up around the perp would ensue. Kicking over a stand might be a last resort and I remember one Philly session when I was there when John DeLancie, the principal oboist, slammed a book on the floor to get Ormandy's attention to stop the orchestra. When I was in the orchestra, Mason was the personnel manager and had to pay his attention beyond playing to keeping a time log. He did confess from time to time, though, just like everyone else. Recordings were a cut and paste affair in the days of analog tape. You'd play until a clam, stop, back up and continue. There might be a few patches after the piece or movement was finished. Rarely did you play straight through without a clam stop. Since the late 80's with the advent of digital recording you generally play through the piece several times. If the producer/conductor/engineer feel that they don't have everything they need at that point, a few patches might be done or another whole run through. They generally pick the best overall performance and edit it from the other takes. Once in a while, something goes great and needs no editing. This happened in MN when we recorded Don Juan with Eiji Oue. We ran it down, everyone was happy, and the release is truly live and unedited. The plus side now is cleaner technical product. The negative side is that in the old days, you needed a damn fine group of musicians to make decent recordings. Now, any bunch of hacks can get a great recording given enough time (and money). What this has done, along with other changes in the business (most notably the lack of full time music directors with any kind of vision beyond their own jet-set careers) is to destroy the individuality of orchestras, worldwide. Personally, I mourn the loss of regional and international sounds and lament the generic results attained in the recording industry today. It's all about product now, not music, IMHO. I definitely miss performers such as Lucien Thevet, Gottfried von Freiberg, Domenico Ceccarossi, Georges Barbeteau, Aubrey and Dennis Brain, Alan Civil, Vitaly Buyanovsky, and of course, Mason Jones! It is a continuing delight (and education) for me, though, to hear Hermann Baumann perform when he comes to KBHC! I encourage all serious horn players to get old recordings of both soloists and orchestras and study these styles and learn why they played the way they did. I feel that there is now a certain emotional element missing from most new recordings and you can't be sure of the performers' technical skills, either, sue to the editing capabilities in our digital age. It's not quite sampled midi yet but it seems to get closer to that all the time. When is the last time you heard live musicians on a jingle? I will say, though, that the Vienna Philharmonic has retained it's individuality better than any other, for some very obvious reasons such as the Vienna horns and oboes. The most obvious, though, is the dogged determination of its musicians to maintain their traditions of playing. What other orchestra places the snare drummer in the clarinet section and then the guy plays his part like he's in a chamber group in regard to balance? NO ONE! Ah, don't get me started! When I want to listen to symphonic music, I listen to re-issues of 78's and LP's of the likes of Stokowski, Bruno Walter, Bernstein, Toscanini, Klemperer, von Karajan, Cluytens, etc. When I want to listen to horn soloists from a student perspective these days, I dig out my recordings of Hermann, Dennis and Mason, first. I do like this idea now that the LSO and Berlin are doing in offering recordings of live performances both in the hall and on line. It is difficult to tell them apart on recordings, though, these days. I always liked, despite the obvious stress, that in MN we went out live on MPR every Friday night though I think there was some editing done for the national re-broadcasts on NPR by using tapes of the other performances of the week. I would hope that serious students who perhaps can't attend live orchestra concerts on a regular basis would avail themselves the opportunity to hear recorded live performances, though. There really is no substitute for hearing an orchestra live, though, especially in its home venue. But, then again, I may be just another Ol' Faht at this point and youngins know best. I report, you decide! KB In a message dated 2/20/2009 1:00:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[Hornlist] Mason Jones Passes
Dear Horn Listers, I just received word that Mason Jones passed away last night. He was 89 years old. I'll post details as I get them. Mason Jones 1919-2009 Principal Horn, Philadelphia Orchestra, 1938-1942, 1946-1978 (Personnel Manager, 1963-1982) Principal Horn, US Marine Band, 1942-1946 Instructor of Horn, Brass Ensemble and Chamber Music, Curtis Institute of Music and Temple University RIP, Mr. Jones Kendall Betts Curtis, Class of 1969 Philadelphia Orchestra, 1970-75 **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Flugelhorn vs Trumpet
I do a lot of doubling on old horns, mellophones, valved post horn, WTube, etc. The best course is to get the appropriate mouthpiece for the particular instrument and have a competent mouthpiece maker cut threads on the doubling cup on which your regular horn screw rim will fit. Has worked for me for years, also for my friend Bobby Routch who doubles on fluegel regularly on his jazz gigs. KB In a message dated 1/19/2009 1:00:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 3 date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:12:26 +1100 from: Kara Hahn hahn.k...@gmail.com subject: [Hornlist] Flugelhorn vs Trumpet Hi everyone, I=B9m just wondering whether we have any flugelhorn experts around... Are the mouthpieces similar to horn? Or are there ways of finding a mouthpiece that is very (very!) similar to my current horn mouthpiece? I play a Paxman 4C mouthpiece.=20 **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Official Start of CLAMSSA?
Dear Hornlorn, I spoke to the Professor yesterday by short-wave radio as his phone is now tapped by the FBI. He is in Illinois where he is changing his driver's license (he's using the address of Geyer's old shop, now demolished and replaced with the 164 story office/residential tower housing the main offices of the Society for Tearing Down the Lights at Wrigley Field, a Chicago based non profit) so that he can become the US Senator from that state, which he won on Ebay last week. That said, please remember that CLAMSSA is a perpetual holiday, with no official start and no end to it. That is why it is universal. He knows that ALL of you observe it on a daily basis, whether you know it or not, both publicly and privately, and that is the true spirit of CLAMSAA. That said, the current holiday season is a good time to bring up the subject, as Scott mentions, to family members so that you can get the horn gift(s) of your desires, such as a fresh copy of Kopprasch No. 1 or a new quadruple horn or a copy of Dennis Brain's mouthpiece, or a lifetime prescription for Inderal or Zoloft or Flomax or Pepto Bismal, or a case of Jack Daniels or a truckload of Coors Light, for example. The Professor assured me that he will make his annual post(s) to the horn lists with a reminder about CLAMSAA so that you can publicly show your observances during the holiday concert and ballet season, even though there is no doubt that you will, anyway. He has the utmost confidence in all of you!!! Just so you know what you are doing, (and observing the holiday by the book), please refer to his lecture in Denver (_http://tinyurl.com/http-tinyurl-com-Clamology_ (http://tinyurl.com/http-tinyurl-com-Clamology) ) if you have not already done so. Seasonings Greetonings and Mostest of Clamifications from an ice encrusted and now treeless Bad Corner, NH! KB In a message dated 12/16/2008 7:11:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, h...@yahoogroups.com writes: Does any one know the official start of CLAMSSA this year? I suspect it is on a lunar calender, due to the tides, etc. Clamsgiving leftovers are getting stale (Off-key with stuffy G and splooee, clamberry sauce, and clamkin pie topped with whipped clam), and besides, due to the official web site, I have convinced my family that CLAMSSA is a gift giving opportunity for the hornist in their life. Can anyone start us off with a rousing chorus of Over the Mahler and through the Brahms, to the Mother-of-Clams* I Go? Respectfully Submitted, Scott Young **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Valve Oil Offer
Dear Horn Community, My teacher, Prof. I.M. Gestopftmitscheist, manufactures and bottles his own secret formula valve oil as well as # 5 Duralene White Machine Oil at The World's Largest Valve Oil Factory in Bad Corner, NH. The valve oil is triple refined odorless kerosene based with an anti corrosive, evaporation retardant and slickener added. The white oil is for the bearings, springs, etc. Here's the deal: For a limited time, an eight oz. bottle of either is $10 plus shipping. Order 12 and the 13th bottle is free! All proceeds from this offer go to the KBHC Scholarship Fund in Memory of Walter Lawson. To order, please e-mail the Professor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) with your request. He'll get back to you with details regarding your order and payment assuming his current community service sentence for promoting musical pornography at IHS 40 gives him enough time to process your order. If you missed it, take a look at _http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=professor+ihs+40search_type=aq=0oq=Professor+IHS_ (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=professor+ihs+40search_type=aq=0oq=Professor+IHS) and you'll know why he was charged. Sincerely, Kendall Betts New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. _Try it out_ (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew0001) ! **New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew0001) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Wooden Mpcs
Ward Fearn made and patented wooden mouthpieces back in the 50's-60's. The basis of his patent was that they changed the sound. To my ears, it was darker, but all of the cups were the very deep, convex funnel type copied from old Kruspe/Dell'Osa mouthpieces popular back then which tended towards that type of sound, anyway. His problem was that they would soak up moisture, dry out, soak, dry, etc. and then crack. The end of the shank was very thin and would crack easily as well. Ward said once one cracked in the middle of a concert and rang out like a gunshot! He tried every type of wood he could: oak, maple, grenadilla, ebony, mahogany, etc. He also tried various finishes, shellac, varnish, and chemical treatments. My Dad, a chemical engineer, even got stuff from DuPont, a mylar epoxy as I recall, for Ward to try. Nothing really helped the cracking. For a while, all the brass players in the Philadelphia Orchestra were trying/using them. Ormandy hated it. They gradually gave them up and went back to standard pieces except for Ward. One night, Ward clammed a note in Fidelio Overture. Ormandy glared at Ward, pointed to the mouthpiece, made a slash across his neck and pointed to the stage door meaning Get rid of that mouthpiece! Ward glared back at Ormandy, shook his head side to side whilst pointing at the mouthpiece gesturing No! Then he pointed at Ormandy and then gestured with his thumb towards the door: YOU GO! I have three Fearnwood's. One is grenadilla, one is ebony and the other is oak. Interesting is about all I can say. Many years ago, I tried some Viennese mouthpieces that had been treated with radiation. The wood was very hard and they did play, but I sensed no advantage. Perhaps it is this type that others mentioned here in previous posts. Maybe I should run an acoustical test comparing the wooden ones to metal ones. The problem here is that the shape/design of the cup would have to be the same to get a good comparison. Hopefully, I'll get time to do this before I die. Current data suggests, though, that the design of the mouthpiece has much more effect on it's sound characteristics rather than the material, I think. Apparent to me, at least, is that Bob's tuba colleague must have made a good one. As to pasta, maybe Daniel or Orlando knows a chef who could come up with a new pasta shape, like Funnelli, or Farkasini or maybe Lawsuono Bellissimo? As to potato mouthpieces, I would think a French fried version might work best for us. This might give new meaning to the French term, Chef D'Orchestre. I hope not! KB **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Desert Island Mozart
Lenny of Laredo writes: The ol' desert island question with a twist: If you could only have 5 recordings of the Mozart concertos (all 4) which artist would you choose? This doesn't mean they are the best, just your favorites for some reason. So far I have 3 on my list: Dennis Brain Aubrey Brain Lowell Greer... Dennis Brain Hermann Baumann with valves Hermann Baumann without valves Alan Civil w/Marriner Guenter Hoegner Now, here's another question: If you could only have 5 pieces of music (including etude books) to play on your horn during your exile, what would they be? KB **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] CSI
Jen wrote: I was especially impressed by the white gloves they include with every horn. I guess that is in case you decide you need to commit a crime with the horn, the CSI's will never be able to prove it was yours due to the lack of fingerprints? In this case, CSI means CLAM SCENE INVESTIGATION. I actually am doing an autopsy on one of these, bought by a local dad for his 9th grade daughter, at the shop right now. Valves have both end and side play and clatter like they were played for 30 years, 8 hours a day and never oiled. Slides don't fit. Bright nickel plated finish tarnishes with the slightest touch: hence the white gloves, I guess. The bell is about .035 thick, hard as nails, and out of round. Sound is very dead. A plus here is that it's really hard to put a dent in it, even with a ball peen hammer. Came in a really nice form case, though. The Eastman horn I fixed up two years ago was much better. No Conn or Holton or Yamaha by a long shot, but at least a decent student horn with some finishing. The Selman is totally useless, IMHO, except for target practice or a fancy shower head or other bathroom fixture. KB **Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp0030002851) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 64, Issue 21
Yeah, I knew this would be confusing to write about. Bar is the bar line. To clarify, I was speaking of the final note of the phrase, but the final note of a phrase is not always strong, because sometimes, the music following takes up where that leaves off. Another general rule, and usually a safe bet, is to only finalize the last note of a phrase if it is then end of a section of a movement (such as the resolution of a trill at the end of the exposition of a Mozart concerto) or the final chord or note of a piece or movement. Check out Doc Thurmond's book. Or come to KBHC. KB In a message dated 4/21/2008 1:01:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kendall, I didn't understand this. How do you equate the bar with the entire phrase. Or am I misdefining bar. Ron In a message dated 4/19/2008 9:11:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pick ups are strong, downbeats are weak, the following notes of the bar (or beat) go up through the last beat (or end of the subdivision), to the weakened downbeat of the next bar (or beat) unless it's the end and perhaps then you make it stronger as the peak of the phrase to give a feeling of finality. **Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp0030002851) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Phrasing
As taught by Tabuteau, DeLancie, Fearn, etc. and examined to a great degree in Dr. Thurmond's book: General rules: Pick ups are strong, downbeats are weak, the following notes of the bar (or beat) go up through the last beat (or end of the subdivision), to the weakened downbeat of the next bar (or beat) unless it's the end and perhaps then you make it stronger as the peak of the phrase to give a feeling of finality. Also, the highest note of the phrase will sound like the peak unless you do something about it, namely weakening or cushioning that note and moving up to the rhythmic peak. This all has to do with the concept of making a line within the dynamic which is a way to make playing more interesting both to the musician at play and the audience. When there is a printed dynamic change such as a crescendo from P to F, it's pretty obvious what needs to be done, and if one does it, the composer's intentions hopefully get through. Some music doesn't have printed dynamics, or very general ones. Then you have more license for interpretation and the weakening/strengthening of beats and the direction of the phrasing becomes more important. It's also a way to help keep your air moving, which gives your chops a better chance to respond properly improving accuracy and articulations. When singing lyrics, you have to phrase with the lyrics, which can change the emphasis within the rhythm. I think playing is different, as there are no lyrics, unless you make some up in your head to help you phrase or keep good rhythm or something like that. For example, opening of Strauss 1: Here I stand, make a crack or a clam, don't despair use my air, just keep go-ing. or my teacher's (Prof. IMG's) words to Till: This poor horn play-er, this poor horn play-er, this poor horn play-er will-be-luck-y-if-he/she-does-'nt F*** this up! Or, the March to the Scaffold: Six-teenths are hard, 'spe-cial ly-when fol-low ing-the dot-ted eighth note! Herb, mention this to me at camp and I'll talk about it. This is much easier to explain in person (with demonstrations, perhaps), than to write about it here. KB In a message dated 4/19/2008 1:00:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: message: 10 date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:12:04 -0700 (PDT) from: Herbert Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Phrasing, was changing tone color Wendell, I have read your article and have looked at your video. I do thank you for your helping us. I don't think I have got it, though I think I know what you mean by arsis and thesis, which are new to me. It's Greek to me :-). For example when I perform America the Beautiful, I sing or play it as I would say it. That means that the pick-up notes O and for in O beautiful for spacious skies, are not emphasized, as I think I have heard teachers say. However, these are not just notes in the rhythm, but I think and perform them as leading into the following notes, which have more emphasis. Maybe that's what you mean, and I do get it. I have heard the next phrase performed as For amber waves OF grain. That's unmusical to me, though the of is the highest note. Herb Foster - Original Message From: Wendell Rider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:09:09 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Phrasing, was changing tone color On Apr 18, 2008, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: message: 10 date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:48:15 -0700 (PDT) from: Herbert Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] Changing tone color As well as being a fine teacher, Douglas is a singer, and he adds that perspective to his teaching. This brings up a question. We are taught not to de-emphasize pick- up notes, if not to emphasize them. However, when I am singing, pick-up notes are usually on weak syllables. How do I sing on the horn with these seemingly contradictory directions? Herb Foster Hi Herb, I'm not sure what you mean by weak syllables, so maybe this won't help, but pick-up notes and other weak beats are the most expressive notes in music. That is where all expression begins. This was part of what I was writing about in my article in the February Horn Call, if you have it, and what I demonstrated on the video that is now sitting on my web site. This goes back to the ancient Greeks and their poetry. When you set a piece or phrase in motion it is the weak beats or off beats or the weak parts of beats that control the space between the stronger or more static down beats. Its like starting to move your feet when you walk, run or dance. The first move you make sets the tempo for when the feet will come down again. Rhythm comes from what is in between the beats. The pick-up note sets the whole phrase in motion. Don't worry about syllables, if I catch your meaning. Get into the flow, which is
[Hornlist] Re: test
No, Hans, they have been laying out loud clams on Easter gigs!!! Speaking of red eggs, how's the food in China? Oh, I'm confused, that should be dead eggs, the hundred year old variety! KB Prof. IMG is working on his new, expanded and revised, high tech (with acoustical spectrum analysis graphs) Lexicon of Clamology to be presented at the UNH horn studio concert next month and at the IHS Workshop in Denver. You said you couldn't come, but I assure you he will make good use of the F side and make you proud, anyway!!! In a message dated 3/26/2008 1:01:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: message: 5 date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:25:05 +0100 from: Hans Pizka [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] test Everybody was out looking for rabbits laying red eggs near nuk plants. == Original-Nachricht Datum: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:52:38 -0700 Von: David Laraway [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: horn@music.memphis.edu Betreff: [Hornlist] test Haven't seen messages for several days. Is it just me? David Laraway ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/gix3514%40gmx.at -- SigfridFafner the under ground horn player from Vienna **Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: IHS advisory board elections
Hey, Hans, Haven't you heard? This is how we hold elections now in the USA! Wait until November and see what happens! KB Registered voter in the first in the nation state of NH PS: With all these candidates for IHS AC, maybe we need to implement a primary or caucus and form an electoral college? But we would call it a clamary or clamcus and form the electoral clamage. Hans wrote: How can we vote for past elections. Look at the ballot find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh boy ... **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Instruments
Lenny's correct in today's world but in the old days, the Anborg was the cheaper, and quite viable, alternative to the Sansone. In fact, Sansone and Anborg used the same parts makers in Italy for valves, etc. I don't know what screw ring they used but I'm sure it was something. Alloys were made from the floor scrapings at the FIAT plant, so they held up really well if UPS drops your horn or runs the truck over it during shipment. My teacher, Prof. I.M. Gestopftmitscheist plays Sansone and Anborg, as well as other makes, exclusively, so I know about this in detail. UPS once split the box open with his Anborg inside, backed the truck over it and guess what, it mashed the Michelin! Yeah, you got it, gave it a flat tire! Talk about tough! As to sound quality, there was some there sometimes. Sansone was reputed to have copied his intake clamifold from the Orsi, citing that the Anborg played like ziti but the Orsi played like bucatini. He had no friggin' problem with this with anybody at all as it was still in the Family. What is little known in this pile of information is that Sansone, Anborg and Orsi were all apprentices of Carlo The Godfather Garriri, who was revered in his own neighborhood by most, if not all, but not so well known in other parts of the country. Garriri was a kindly man and an excellent craftsman with many connections who helped many wise guys to learn da bizniss, as he called it. It was reputed that the secret to Mrs. Garriri's excellent marinara sauce was to collect dose verdi's which Carlo saved for her when he cleaned out someone's intake clamifold in the shop. He had a special espresso can marked Da Spagett's for such purpose. Garriri's many made men have formed a society in his honor in order to memorialize and preserve his work. It is known as the Garriri Gang and they meet whenever they can at a private social club in an undisclosed location. KB In a message dated 2/13/2008 1:01:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: subject: Re: [Hornlist] Instruments can someone tell me the most popular instruments played by American major symphony horn players? Mostly Sansones, if a player can't afford a Sansone they get a Selman. LLB **The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp0030002565) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Is new okay?
Hey Luke, You should be fine to replace one with a used one. Plane all four down as necessary so the tread depths match within 1/32nd. If you can't do that, then don't worry about it. Do check the depths after each run. If one goes sooner than the others, replace the whole set with new at that point or make sure your insurance is paid up in full and take one more run. I'm not familiar with Kumho's but I've used ContiPremierContacts on my M3 for years. Better handling than Michelin Pilots and wear better than Dunlop 5000''s. I don't autocross, only club driving schools and attempting to set land speed records on public roads, but these are great all season tires. Also, the Conti's leave a great tread mark on a mellophone or similar! The grooves channel the valves nicely out of the way and the compound is just hard enough to crush them flat without losing control of the car. Especially nice in rain and snow or if the horn has been oiled and greased recently. Kenny white knuckle Betts 42 speeding tickets with 8 states to go In a message dated 2/8/2008 1:01:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a set of Kumho V-710 (205-55-14) that I have used for one season = of autocross. With the exception of only one tire, they still have = several runs left in them. One of the tires is toast: a section of = tread about four inches in diameter peeled off to reveal the cord. I have been trying to find just one used tire so I can get a few more = runs out of these tires with little success. Is it okay to purchase = just one new tire to complete this set? Would this cause handling = problems? Luke Zyla 99 red Ranger 42cs **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: unRaveling
Reminds me of a band arrangement of Till Eulenspiegel I played years ago on a band job. Greatly abridged, of course, but the worse was the horn solo had been transfigured for old Eb mellophone. It was in Eb concert, and played ON the beat! The last three notes were in the baritone part. I convinced the conductor to let me play it right, except in Eb, though. Sorry, I don't remember the initials of the good conductors. I'm glad my teacher, Prof. IMG made me play everything in Eb, though! Hey Bill, you didn't mention who had the solo? I'm assuming it was either alto sax, alto clarinet, flugelhorn or accordion. I doubt if Owen is related to Jerry. KB In a message dated 2/7/2008 1:01:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greetings from Wildomar! Are those on the list aware of the abomination the BelwinMills arrangement of Ravel's Pavane, by Owen Goldsmith. I assume this was an attempt to get some ones middle school orchestra to play music that the kids may have heard. The solo horn line is gone. The first horn part is some sort of backround chording. I asked the conductor to withdraw this excrement and replace it with the original score and parts. Since I didn't have Kendalls lead pipe, my suggestion fell on tone deaf ears. The conductors initials are John Brannon. I will be playing with a different orchestra this evening. Shsh! Bill **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Schill Horns
I have gone to these horns, exclusively, as I am now 60 and my arm just isn't what it used to be. They are lighter than a single F, even with the A valve, and much lighter than a double. They also have excellent aerodynamics. I kicked a 42 yard field goal with one recently. My legs are still pretty good and this beat my old record with a single F by a good 3.37853877 yards! I don't recommend the bright nickel plated finish, though, as it is much harder than the lacquered antiqued finish and doesn't wrinkle up nearly as easily. The nickel plated ones are heavier, as well, and the nickel is more aerodynamically resistant to the atmosphere so it doesn't sail as far. I like lacquer the best, followed by lightly tarnished raw brass. Silver plate is not bad, either. This said, I have no qualms about giving any of them my highest recommendation! KB In a message dated 2/5/2008 9:45:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: message: 21 date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 06:41:49 -0800 (PST) from: Wilbert Kimple [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] Schill Horns Yes, we've all seen them on ebay at fantastically low prices, but last Saturday I actually got to play one. Horrible brand name, at least to Americans. This was a four vavle single Bb, nickle silver, with screw bell. It was very solidly constructed and used thick metal on the bell. It had a nice plastic case for the money. The seller wanted $180. At first the horn played badly. Very out of tune. So, I removed the main tuning slide, reversed it, replaced it, and tried again. This improved the intonation dramatically. However, I now found the fourth line D and fourth space Eb were impossible to play. I took out the mouthpiece I was using, the one that came with the horn, and put in a Schilke 27. Bingo!!! The horn played great, nice sound, very well in tune, and the D and Eb were as solid as you could want. The valves seemed tight, at least according to the pop test. They didn't wiggle, either. The tone was a bit darker than my Alex triple, but not muffled or stuffy. The horn did have a bit more resistance than my Alex, but further mouthpiece experimentation might fix that. A very nice horn from the bottom to high C. I didn't buy it, but it would have fit my current needs very well. So, there may be some hope for Chinese horns after all. Wilbert in SC **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] (no subject)
HORN TRASH By Kenny B. There is much to be said about the trashing of the horn. I will give you some thoughts on the subject now and you will be able to read about these in greater detail upon the publication of my soon to be completed book on the subject. I have not decided on the title yet but I have narrowed it down to the following three: The Art of French Horn Trashing; On Trashing the Horn; Grand Theoretical and Practical Method for Trashing the Horn. Here are some excerpts from my manuscript. Chapter 1: To Trash or Not To Trash? I think that most horn players have a latent desire and ability to trash. Whether you decide to trash or not is a personal decision and you make this choice based on your own instincts, passion and circumstances. Don't be ashamed of your feelings, as you are not alone in them. If you have the overwhelming desire to trash, then perhaps you should try it once to find out if trashing is the right thing for you. There is nothing wrong with this if you use discretion. You can make the momentous decision of whether to trash in public, as I do, or whether just to keep your trash in the closet until after you have gained experience with trashing over time. I myself trashed in private for many years before my public debut in Tallahassee in 1994. Whatever you decide is best for you is the proper choice. Chapter Two: Why Trash? Trashing can be one of the most satisfying experiences a horn player can have. Whether you are an amateur trasher who only trashes occasionally for fun or a professional trasher like me who has to do it every day, trashing the horn is a great stress reliever. Some experienced horn trashers I know say that trashing is the best part of their day. Depending on your emotional state, you may be trashing for fun or in anger. As a professional, I trash mostly in anger. I can tell you that there is no more satisfying experience in life than smashing and ripping apart one of these buggers whether the horn belongs to you or someone else. I know that was apparent in Rochester in 1997 when I ripped Prof. Hans Pizka's horn to shreds with my bare hands after he ruined my IHS International Workshop conducting debut by playing his stupid Siegfried call over and over again during the world premiere of a very monumental work of music by Milt Phibbs. At the amateur level, you will find that once you start trashing, you will continue to love it and have fun with it, possibly for your entire life. Chapter Three: When to Trash Your first trashing is your most important one as your life will be changed forever. A lot of trashers I know did their first one after a really bad lesson. Others after an embarrassing performance. Many more after a failed audition. I know of one who even went pro on his very first trashing when he threw his horn at the conductor during a rehearsal. The best time is whenever the spirit moves you and you have the opportunity. Remember, the desire to trash is a natural manifestation and it is nothing to be ashamed of. Chapter Four: What are the Best Horns to Trash? Any horn can be successfully trashed. Remember, it's not the horn, it's the trasher. With proper training, practice and experience you will find what is best for your own trashing situation and circumstances. I have trashed many different makes and models of horns with the utmost of success and satisfaction. Accidental trashings unfortunately do occur and usually to good instruments. These are usually repairable and/or replaceable. For intentional trashings, just about any old piece of junk is satisfactory but I prefer to trash a single F horn as I am a great admirer of the Viennese School of Trashing that was so renowned in the late 19th Century. Mellophones are also good to trash, though you may want to just keep playing on it as that is trashy enough in itself most of the time. You can find many suitable instruments for trashing at Public School System Auctions, flea markets, cheap antique stores and on eBay, where even new, imported instruments are readily available at bargain prices! These are also the only instruments, except for perhaps some Italian instruments from the mid-late 20th Century, that are specifically engineered for this purpose and are fast becoming The Professional's Choice. Chapter Five: Trashing Techniques As with most activities, there are many different and successful techniques. Some are simple and quite easily learned; others are extremely difficult and take not only athletic ability but years of training and practice to develop. A good one to start with is the simple horn slam: grasp the horn firmly and with a controlled overhand motion of the arm simply slam it into the floor. Do this several times and then move on to your first wall banger: stand eight to ten feet from the wall, grasp
[Hornlist] Re: Kruspe, Conn, Schmidt and more
First off, I wish to sincerely thank Paul Navarro for joining this discussion. I've always been fascinated with the history and evolution of our instrument, the players, teachers and makers, and we are fortunate in this day and age to have a resource such as this list to discuss all aspects of it. My passion started in high school and my colleagues at the time, both in the Delaware Valley and at IAA shared the interest in all things horn that I had. Though the only resources we had were the Morley-Pegge book, the Gregory book, Birchard Coar's two theses and the Farkas book, the fires of passion were lit for life in many of us. It is remarkable the amount of information, not to mention performance (either as a listener or participant) and educational opportunities that are available now. I get a bit troubled at times today when I don't see the same interest, beyond what they are doing, in students. I hope that posts here can help kindle that interest in them and others who read them. The horn is a noble and beautiful instrument with a great history. I feel personally that it is a privilege to work in this business and I value the friendship and camaraderie that seems to run universal in our small, yet worldwide, community. It is up to us, as horn players and music lovers, to assure that its existence continues well into the future. I feel that is essential that we build upon the traditions of the past in order to guarantee that this happens. Yes, sometimes there is controversy, even acrimony, amongst us but I think that this is human nature and not really a bad thing as it shows evidence that passion is present! I think that we are all looking for the same truths and there is most certainly misinformation out there that could use correction. I believe that all are entitled to their opinions and I am always relieved when someone corrects me on a point of misinformation that I hold as true. That said, I'm going to work this week on lead(mouth)pipes. There is a point we can discuss, similar to the French sometimes associated with horn. What is the proper term for the first length of tubing? Inquiring minds want to know. I have a stock Kruspe lead(mouth)pipe that Walter ordered from them at some point. I will guess it's from the 60's and it's all finished and ready to be installed. I also have my old brass Kruspe, my main instrument through HS. Carl Geyer himself dated this horn as WWI vintage. Walter used cerrobase to fill leadpipes, then cut the pipe apart and measure the mold. I really don't want to do that to this pipe or my horn! I will try the plastics I've been experimenting with for bending and see if I can get a decent mold of those tapers for precise measurement. If Paul, or anyone else, has accurate measurements of Kruspe pipes, I'd like to see them. I understand the comment about gravy in the sound and I'm curious to pursue that aspect further. My bell research is on going at this point. I am working on a way to easily and quickly measure the thickness of a bell flare throughout the flare. I may or may not succeed at this but I think I can engineer a device to do it. Building it may be the real problem. Otherwise, it's just the old dial gauge, calipers and guesstimates. I may also invest in a Rockwell hardness tester. It only makes a small dent, but I'll sell those bells as seconds. (Just kidding!)Walter and I always shared the view that the sound of the horn was its most important attribute and I do think the bell flare is the most important piece of the system in that regard. Paul's description of what's involved in horn design and building is right on the mark. I took on this business because there were no acceptable offers for it forthcoming when they decided to retire and sell it. I also needed a job in retirement and I did not want to teach full time in a university. Walter said if no one wanted to continue, he was going to destroy all the spec sheets and mandrels and auction off the machines and equipment. I just could not let that happen! It's my goal to keep what they did going at this point and to make improvements wherever I can in both the design and manufacturing of the instrument. I also have to pay bills, make payroll and pay taxes, so I do need customers in order to survive. I'm not ashamed to promote what I do and I sincerely want to help people play their best on whatever equipment they have. Back to work! KB In a message dated 2/2/2008 1:01:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here are some observations I would like to share in regards to some of the recent postings on the horn list. First of all, as to the Schmidt mouthpipe being called a a narrow taper mouthpipe, I think that this is somewhat misleading terminology. The generally accepted description by most makers
[Hornlist] Improving Conn 8D's (was C. F. Schmidt)
OK, I'll rephrase my statement: Can the intonation, response and sound of a Conn 8D be altered to suit a particular player's desire to play better? Yes, it can! Do I despise bad sounds from a French horn? I most certainly do! Do I want to hear good horn playing from people? Yes, I do! Will I do my best to try to help anyone who inquires to play better, either by teaching them or helping them with their equipment? Yes, I will! Do I want to sell my products to such people? Yes, I do! Do I think my products and/or my teaching are the answer to everybody's problems? No, I don't. Am I passionate about the horn and the music that can made with it? Sometimes, I have my doubts! Ken, didn't you mean Tubris? KB In a message dated 2/2/2008 1:01:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kendall: I agree! The computer is one of many useful tools a maker has at hand = to better his design! That being said, I roll my eyes when I read statements like: Can a Conn 8D of any era be=20 improved? Yes it can! Try one of our pipes and flares on one and see! = This is NOT an Objective thing... horn playing, and horn design are a = mix of objective design (the length needed), and subjective response - (which tapers feel right). I do believe you can make a pipe which makes the horn feel different, = but to make a claim that you can make a pipe that will always make it = better..?? To me that sounds a bit like Hubris. As I always tell my customers, if a maker or technician tells you he has = the 'answer' to your problems, he is simply trying to sell you something. Albeit with good motives in mind. =20 Sincerely Ken Pope **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History
Kruspe pipes are long F horn tapers as well. The main difference is that the Kruspe pipes I've seen had more bumps or bubbles, (wider or narrower spots in the taper) than the Schmidt or 8D pipe.. Why, I don't know but in general those can have an effect on both sound and response. If in the right place, they can fix problems, in the wrong place, they can cause problems. Or both! KB In a message dated 1/31/2008 1:01:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mr. Betts, May I pick your brain? What are the differences in taper between the Kruspe pipe and the Schmidt pipe and what do they do to the playing feel/sound? Just curious! Aleks Ozolins **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History
From what I know, Horner worked exclusively with Kruspe. Maybe they knew Schmidt? Hard to say. There was a predecessor model, the Fritz that Kruspe made, and the Horner model is similar to that. I think all the German makers of the time got patents for double horn designs and built there own models. These included Alexander, Knopf, Kruspe and Schmidt. All were widely copied later on and still are used by makers today. Kruspe had several patents, including the Wendler, Milano, and Gumbert models. Alex had a patent for the 103, etc. Maybe Hans knows more? KB In a message dated 1/31/2008 1:01:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kendall, To help me understand this, did the Horner Model Kruspe develop parallel with the Schmidt, or did Horner borrow a little of the Schmidt design when he went to Kruspe? On 1/30/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, the 8D leadpipe is copied from the Schmidt, as are many others including Geyer, Reynolds, King, Olds, Holton, generic Allied, etc. It's a long, gradual F horn taper. It's probably a better pipe than the Kruspe pipes in regard to intonation but both have upper register problems. It's the alloy where Conn really made a boo-boo. They used plain old nickel-silver and not the nickel-bronze type alloy that Kruspe used. That helps explain the difference in sound between silver Kruspe's and the Conn 8D. Close, but not quite a cigar. As Howard mentioned, Schmidt's were fine instruments and used by many top players including John Barrows, Jim Buffington, Forrest Standley, Dick Mackey, and Dale Clevenger. The Conn 4D and 6D tapers were copied from the Schmidt and wrapped up different. KB In a message dated 1/30/2008 1:01:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Conn 8D was modeled after the Horner model Kruspe. The Schmidt features a piston F/Bb change valve, rather than a rotary valve. Many people, especially with smaller hands, have found this awkward. Several Schmidt owners have had a metal lever extension made to replace the piston button in order to minimize the stretch. Conn, however, at one time did make a Schmidt copy double horn. **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History
Dave, no need for puzzles here. The whole thing is a clear as the view from Mt. Washington, assuming it's not snowing. Conn copied the Kruspe Horner Model and experimented with the tapers with the assistance of professionals at the time. Wrap and general dimensions got copied verbatim. Valves were already being produced by them and they used their American size tubing for the cylindrical portions to give it a .468 bore. Kruspe bores were metric, and a few thousandths difference is no big deal. The input from the players was that the Schmidt (6D) pipe played better than the Kruspe copy pipe, so they went with that. The two pipes are not so different to really change much, as I mentioned before, as they are both long, F horn tapers. As to sound, I think they used what was known then in America as German Silver. As we all know, this alloy contains no silver at all and is copper/nickel/zinc in composition. The trade name these days is nickel silver. That's what they thought the Kruspe was so that's what they ordered from Anaconda or whomever at the time. Walter's research, which you have so accurately detailed, showed that the pre-war Kruspe was a nickel-bronze. Bob Fitzmorris, who worked for Anacaonda and helped Walter immensely through the years, told Walter that in Germany, alloys had different names than here, and they still do. What we call red brass or Alloy 230, they call Goldmessing which translates as gold brass. Now, how many horn players here call yellow or cartridge brass, or Alloy 260, gold brass which in Germany is know as messing. So, in Germany in the 1930's, I'm sure there were various copper-nickel alloys with various names. To complicate it, there was no international numbering standard as there is today. To make a long story short, the closest alloy that Anaconda makes now to the Kruspe assay is nickel bronze. No zinc, as in nickel German silver, but with a small tin content and a touch of lead. I have no idea what this is called in Germany, but the German maker(s) who will make a NS horn today use the the nickel silver alloy 752, same as Conn, Holton, Yamaha, etc. Computer analysis and well trained human ears can tell a difference in the sounds of nickel silver and nickel bronze bell flares. Walter was after the Kruspe sound and so were other players at the time, including myself. I use to sit in the Philly orchestra looking at Mason's, Nolan's and Glenn's Kruspes and wondering why they had a different patina than the Conn in my lap. Walter figured it out some years later. There are over 400 copper alloys available used for just about every commercial use imaginable. More info at _www.copper.org_ (http://www.copper.org) for interested parties. My teacher, Prof. I.M. Gestopftmitscheist, in analyzing some other alloys for his new model horn, a brilliantly designed copy of the Amborg copy of the Olds copy of the Conn 6D, except he is using a leadpipe copied from a Maxtone. So far, testing has revealed that a lightly annealed, cryogenically treated, slightly corroded but recently cleaned with CLR Stained Steel bell flare has the most killing power at 500 yards whilst retaining the warmth of sound characteristic of a fine tuned Getzen two valved alto bugle so popular in the days before DCI allowed 3 valves. As you know, the Getzen was bright nickel plated, which has been so widely adopted of late by fine makers in the far east who sell primarily on e-Bay. But, alas, the professor still cannot answer my perennial question: What if Dennis Brain had had a triple horn? KB Kendall, I'm a little puzzled by your comparison of the Conn 8D and the Kruspe (by which I assume you mean the Horner model). If Conn copied the 8D pipe from the Schmidt, not the Kruspe, then were they trying to copy the Kruspe or the Schmidt? Even with a Schmidt-model pipe on it, would the 8D have sounded closer to the Kruspe if they had used a bronze rather nickel-silver? Also, I'm kind of wondering if Conn even had access to the same alloy as Kruspe? Could they have copied the Kruspe exactly, down to the alloy? I recall a conversation I had with Walt Lawson a couple years ago about their assay of Kruspe bell metal. The first attempt yielded a strange assay, which included, among the usual elements you'd expect,?lead, about 3 percent tin, and some iron. It was only after they realized where and how on the bell they'd gotten the sample that they understood what was going on: They had used an iron file to remove a sample from the ferrule end of the bell, which included shavings from the bell, the solder, and metal from the file itself! A better sample yielded a more typical assay of a bronze. Walt told me that lead them to explore the properties of bronzes, and to find a standard alloy that closely matched the properties they were looking for. The point
[Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History
Geyer did work for Wunderlich and there was a definite connection with Schmidt, expecially for parts, in that shop. If Paul Navarro is on the list, I think he knows the history well as he apprenticed with Geyer as did others including Lowell Greer and Ron Pinc. KB In a message dated 2/1/2008 2:53:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Shel writes: It's always been my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that Geyer worked for Schmidt and learned the business from him. The line is = Schmidt, Geyer, Leuchnik (sp?), Lewis (although Lewis' link with Geyer is also = direct and personal). **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Bending tubing (was lead pipes or something like that)
We use pitch, as do/did many makers. It's a compound of roofing tar and rosin. Yamaha uses hydroforming and some makers use ice. Lead and cerrobase are long gone, TTBOMK. I'm experimenting with plastics now, but I have yet to find the magic combination. Pitch is messy, dangerous to handle when hot, and a bear to clean up. The part has to be soaked in paint thinner, then acid to clean it. Now if I can just find an epoxy to replace solder... KB **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History
Actually, the 8D leadpipe is copied from the Schmidt, as are many others including Geyer, Reynolds, King, Olds, Holton, generic Allied, etc. It's a long, gradual F horn taper. It's probably a better pipe than the Kruspe pipes in regard to intonation but both have upper register problems. It's the alloy where Conn really made a boo-boo. They used plain old nickel-silver and not the nickel-bronze type alloy that Kruspe used. That helps explain the difference in sound between silver Kruspe's and the Conn 8D. Close, but not quite a cigar. As Howard mentioned, Schmidt's were fine instruments and used by many top players including John Barrows, Jim Buffington, Forrest Standley, Dick Mackey, and Dale Clevenger. The Conn 4D and 6D tapers were copied from the Schmidt and wrapped up different. KB In a message dated 1/30/2008 1:01:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Conn 8D was modeled after the Horner model Kruspe. The Schmidt features a piston F/Bb change valve, rather than a rotary valve. Many people, especially with smaller hands, have found this awkward. Several Schmidt owners have had a metal lever extension made to replace the piston button in order to minimize the stretch. Conn, however, at one time did make a Schmidt copy double horn. **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] I Found My Horn
Dear Horn Listers, Please allow me this opportunity to inform you of the publication of a new book, I Found My Horn, by British journalist and amateur horn player, Jasper Rees. This is an autobiographical account of Jasper's return to horn playing after a 22 year hiatus. The title comes from the humorous Flanders and Swann song that uses the rondo of Mozart No. 4, K.495 as its melody. The book is being released in the UK on January 24 by Wiedenfeld and is scheduled for release in the US later this year by HarperCollins with the title A Devil to Play, taken from the same source. Apparently, HC found the original title a bit too racy! That aside, I can personally say that Jasper is an excellent writer and a jolly good chap as I was privileged to have him as a participant at KBHC as he made his quest for the grail. There is an extract published in the Daily Telegraph, the paper that Mr. Rees mainly writes for, _http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/12/20/bmrees120.xml_ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/12/20/bmrees120.xml) which gives a flavor of the book’s tone. Rest assured that there is also a lot of serious consideration of the horn’s history too. For example, he's attempted to gather in one place every known fact about Leutgeb. There is also a chapter which is called “Hold It Like A Man!” after something Hermann Baumann said to him rather too forcefully one hot afternoon at KBHC. The BBC has named I Found My Horn its Book of the Week. Five edited extracts are being read as an audio book on BBC Radio 4 from Monday 14 Jan through Friday 18 Jan. The official broadcast time for the program is 9.45 AM, local time, and then there’s a repeat for European insomniacs at 12.30 AM, which is early-mid evening, depending on your time zone, in the US. It is possible to listen online by going to _http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/_ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/) and clicking on the Listen Live tab on the right. However, there is also a Listen Again option online which allows you to catch it for up to a week afterwards. It can be found here: _http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/book_week.shtml_ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/book_week.shtml) . Thus the Monday episode is available for seven days from the moment of broadcast, the Tuesday one for seven days, and so on. Copies of the first release may currently be ordered at Amazon.com _http://www.amazon.co.uk/I-Found-my-Horn/dp/0297852256/sr=8-4/qid=1156923011/ref=sr_1_4/ 202-3095876-5926215?ie=UTF8s=gateway_ (http://www.amazon.co.uk/I-Found-my-Horn/dp/0297852256/sr=8-4/qid=1156923011/ref=sr_1_4/202-3095876-5926215?ie=UTF8s =gateway) . A copy is on its way to me and I'll give a review here, ASAP. Please join me in congratulating Jasper in his monumental accomplishment in adding to the sparse assortment of horn related writings! Sincerely, Kendall Betts **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Gosh Damp!
Well, one of the meanings of dampen is To soundproof. Remember, we're using English, here! Happy Clamsaa! KB In a message dated 12/25/2007 1:00:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: message: 10 date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:36:31 -0500 from: Jeremy Cucco [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Lacquer Just one quick point on terminology - The verb meaning 'to reduce the mechanical or acoustical vibrations' is Da= mp or in the other context Damping. Dampen or Dampening means something altogether different. Regards and Merry Christmas (or Happy Holidays) Jeremy= **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Lacquer
Actually, you could use plastic steel or braising solder to fill in the pits. Then grind the daylights out of it followed by lots of buffing to get it smooth. On a NS horn, it might look OK. On a brass horn, I think it would resemble a smooth patch. Maybe I'll try on a junker and let you know! Might be fun to see what the acoustical result would be as well. BTW, I was only referring to patching the bell flare. Patches on the body, the usual spots are the left hand area and near the top joint between the bell tail and 1st branch, won't affect much if done right. Older horns like Schmidt, Geyer and Kruspe sometimes were made out of seamed tube, so that will wear open from de-zincing at the seams, usually at knuckle joints and in the leadpipe from corrosion on the inside. Probabaly better to replace a de-zinced leadpipe. KB In a message dated 12/25/2007 1:00:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: message: 12 date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:18:50 -0600 from: John Baumgart [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Lacquer If there is minor pitting here and there, can it effectively be cleaned, puttied and buffed to a like new surface before relacquering? John Baumgart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 4:21 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Lacquer [...] If they are pitted, we leave it and advise the customer of that fact. [...] -- message: 13 date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:26:34 -0600 from: Carlberg Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Lacquer At 8:18 PM -0600 12/24/07, John Baumgart wrote: If there is minor pitting here and there, can it effectively be cleaned, puttied and buffed to a like new surface before relacquering? Sure. Bondo=AE is readily available. If the pitting=20 is extensive, fiberglass mesh can be used to=20 reinforce the metal before applying the Bondo=AE to=20 acheive perfect smoothness. -- Carlberg Jones Skype - carlbergbmug Cornista - Orquesta Sinf=F3nica de Aguascalientes Aguascalientes, Ags. MEXICO **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Lacquer
I can agree with most of what's been said on this subject so I'm not quoting the posts. The old cellulose lacquers had about a 5% dampening effect. The harder, heavier epoxy based finishes used by Conn and most major manufacturers today has about a 15% dampening effect. That stuff is usually baked, like a car finish, and it really seals off. We are now using a polyurethane based clear coat that is almost as tough as the epoxy but has only about the 5% dampening effect on the sound. It's also patchable with an airbrush, so instruments can come back for a touch up as it wears off. I would give it about a 7-10 year life with normal use and decent maintenance of the instrument. As to the preparation of the metal, we never grind or sand older instruments. If they are pitted, we leave it and advise the customer of that fact. We do some buffing but most of the prep is hand ragging with Brasso. Takes time, adds to the cost, but it's the right thing to do. I think it's best to keep a horn lacquered, especially if it's the daily player. If it's nickel silver, it will hold up longer unlacquered than yellow brass. Red brass is in the middle. If you have acidic hands, use a hand guard as was mentioned. You can also keep the inside of the bell unlacquered to prevent pitting. If it's a screw bell, rotate the ring 1/4 turn every 5-7 years and that flare will last a long time. Patching is not good as it really deadens the sound because of all the solder. Once a bell has worn too thin, it should be replaced. A good, well maintained instrument will hold most of its value through time and might even appreciate. KB **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: Playing softly (was: [Hornlist] Rims, Chops, Airstreams (was C series
Hello Howard, It has to do with your air pressure/air volume ratio. Loud=lots of volume+lots of pressure. Soft=little volume+lots of pressure, sometimes even more than in F. That's about all I can explain here. As I've mentioned to you, you should come to camp and I'll help you with this. KB Howard S. wrote: Kendall Betts writes: always BTSOOI (Blow The Stuff (polite translation) Out Of It) keeping the resistance of the equipment consistent throughout the note and dynamic ranges. I know this sounds simple, and in a way it is. This may sound--and be--simple to some, but not to me. What, exactly, does one do to play softly? If one blows the crap out of it, the dynamic will just be loud. There has to be *some* difference in what one does physically when one is playing loud and soft. I've heard Louis Stout's blow loud but play soft admonition. I've even heard Stout do it in person. So that had some meaning for him, and he was able to implement it. I've heard Wendell Rider's explanation and demonstration on his DVD of keeping the air going and just letting your body naturally play softly when that's what you want to do. (His body is natural in ways mine isn't. g) I've heard about thinking of the air stream as a thread and stringing the notes on it like pearls. I've heard about picking a spot on the floor, sighting down the leadpipe, and focusing the air stream on it. And probably some other metaphors that don't come to mind tonight. However, Ideally, your face should not feel tense/tight in any register and if you BTSOOI and get the instrument responding properly, it won't, assuming you practice properly for a reasonable amount of time on a daily basis. I've never come close to this, and I do practice several hours nearly every day. (Maybe properly is the problem? What is properly?) I do think that, at least for myself, using a lot of air--making the air do as much, and the chops as little of the work as I can--makes my playing better any way you care to define better. But controlled soft playing?! So the question is: What's different--chops, tongue, air, gut, pressure, jaw, whatever--between loud and soft? There has to be some difference, and someone, somewhere, must be able to codify it. For the record, I believe in paralysis by analysis to the same degree I believe in miracles: not at all. I believe that careful, thorough analysis is how we learn and improve. Maybe that's because my job is, for practical purposes, analysis, but there it is anyway. Thanks for any light anyone can shed. Howard Mr. Frustration Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Leadpipes
Good point, Ken! That's precisely why we offer a 30 day trial period with our leadpipes. In the past year, I've made and sent out pipes for Conn 8D's, Holton 179 and 180, Alex 103, Berg, Kruspe, Atkinson, Paxman, Jiracek and Yamaha 667V and 668 horns. All types of players, too, from amateurs through serious students through professionals in major orchestras both in the US and abroad. Only one was returned from a Conn player who said she figured out her problems were more with her playing and not with her instrument. KB Ken Pope writes: One thing I have learned for certain in this business is that there are no definites. One man's trash is sometimes another man's treasure - and the same is true for leadpipes. The only way to tell for certain if a pipe (by ANY maker) is going to be better for your horn is to try it. All the claims by makers and players about the way certain pipes play refer only to THAT players experience (or THAT maker's claim). Sincerely Ken Pope **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: leadpipes
Steve, you forgot to mention trying the good, custom leadpipes on the really expensive but ruined horn after you tape up the holes. I certainly agree that a valve job is the first step in improving an instrument, if the valves are shot. It might not be the only step, though. KB Steve Mumford writes: Eva, you kind of glossed right over the more significant part of making that 179 play better. I tend to forget that people are trying out these replacement leadpipes on old worn out horns with leaky valves and tuning slides. Sure the FB-210 is a fine pipe, but I guarantee, the valve rebuild is what made the horn play. Putting a fine new leadpipe on a worn, leaky horn is just buzzing into the wind. Here's an experiment for everyone. Buy a new custom horn. Get something nice, something between maybe 8 to 12,000 dollars. Take an electric drill and drill 4 big holes in it. Now you have the effect of having 4 leaky valves. Buy several good custom leadpipes and try them on the horn. Now put some tape over the holes and try the original pipe. Which is better? Years ago I sold a horn to a fellow. I never really liked the horn very much, but he loved it, and for years he raved about how it was the best horn he owned. Of course it was. It was the only one he owned that didn't have leaky valves! - Steve Mumford Eva wrote: Many years ago, when I was a 'wee horn-playing lass', I had a Holton 179, which was a total dog. However, it was dramatically improved and made into a really fine horn by putting a Lawson FB-210 (if memory serves--it was many years ago) lead pipe on it. Of course it had a valve rebuild too. **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
I'm curious to know what your criteria is for judging a leadpipe? What would you consider that makes a certain pipe better, not just different? I make pipes that have a better scale and respond quicker, especially on the Bb horn, on a Conn 8D, any Conn 8D. Would folks consider that better or just different? You mention a good original one. Walter, myself and others knew early on that Conn leadpipes, as with most makes, were inconsistent. I remember trying a dozen, new, Elkhart 8D's at a time back in the '60's and all would play differently. There would be maybe 1 or 2 good ones in the batch. I went to the factory once in Elkhart to pick out a new pipe for a 300,000 series I had that had been damaged in a car wreck, played 40 pipes that day and they were all different. I never did find one that made that horn play as well as the original one did before it was totaled. Walter figured out a few years later that this was due to sloppy cutting of the small end. I don't know if anyone before Walter had even thought about that. He was, and I am, very conscious of the quality control of our pipes. Our designs are unique and there are many 8D's, as well as other makes, with Lawson pipes on them which are used daily by all sorts of players who are happy with their results. I don't think those folks would have switched pipes if they did not think the change was for the better. I also have spectrum analysis data from computer testing that shows how various changes in leadpipe tapers affect the instrument, both in terms of intonation and response. I know you didn't call any names, but I couldn't pass up the chance here for some free advertising! Thanks! Kendall Betts Steven Mumford [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few of the custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were better than a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. - Steve Mumford **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 59, Issue 32
Besides you, Hans, I can only think of one: Mason Jones. KB In a message dated 11/27/2007 1:01:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But how about the many high class professional (full time) players who never altered their horns, but had a descant at hand for special tasks, a nice full double for day-to-day work - but also used the same mouthpiece for all tasks for 30 - 40 years ? **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Rims, Chops, Airstreams (was C series mouthpieces)
I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Rider's thoughts. I would like to add a few of my own. The most important aspect of a rim is your personal comfort. Even if a rim sounds better or gives you more flexibility, if it feels uncomfortable, it's probably not right for you. Many players start fooling with rims/cups/horns/whatever equipment looking for help that will only come from decent instruction that changes their approach/technique/ideas for the better and the practice room. Many players don't use a proper, controlled, athletic airstream so they are not giving their embouchure a fair chance. I've worked with a lot of folks through the years and most with embouchure problems had bad support and slow airstreams. Once they got their breathing going, their chops improved without any drastic resetting. Most adjusted naturally over time and improved their sound, range, flexibility, etc. Think about finding your natural embouchure and solidifying your airstream. A good way to find your natural set is to free buzz written middle c, concert f. Get a good loud buzz going. While holding the buzz put the horn up to your lips just to make a seal. Don't contort your lips or screw in the mouthpiece, just place it where the buzz/airstream goes straight down the bore of the mouthpiece. If done properly, that should be your natural embouchure. Pull the corners down as you go higher, drop the jaw as you go lower and always BTSOOI (Blow The Stuff (polite translation) Out Of It) keeping the resistance of the equipment consistent throughout the note and dynamic ranges. I know this sounds simple, and in a way it is. I think many folks make too much of their problems and only make things worse for themselves. If you can buzz and keep your air moving fast, you can play. Think about if you are doing things with your face in a natural way, without contortion, with your muscles working in their naturally constructed formations. Ideally, your face should not feel tense/tight in any register and if you BTSOOI and get the instrument responding properly, it won't, assuming you practice properly for a reasonable amount of time on a daily basis. KB Wendell Rider wrote: I'm going to chop this up a bit for clarity. I feel a short video for the web site coming on... On Nov 26, 2007, at 3:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: message: 10 date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:27:33 -0500 from: Christopher Fitzhugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] C series mouthpieces Hi Wendell, Always enjoy your posts and your instruction. A true asset to the horn community. Thanks Question: What if you are the very thin lipped type? How do accomplished teachers such as yourself determine thick vs. thin lipped individuals? Obviously when we look at people, must of us would agree to some extent on what were thin and thick lips, but I really don't think of it that way when I am teaching. I don't have some sort of scale of thickness. I just look for a good fit. If someone comes in with a mouthpiece that is cramping their playing, we will test out alternatives. I can tell a lot by where the rim fits on the face and the rest comes form watching them play certain telling passages, skills like lip trills and the ability to make the small, subtle movements that are the upper register; and as always the tone. Is there a minimum inner diameter that none should pass regardless of lip composition? The short answer is no, but have you ever tried to buzz on a drinking straw or your leadpipe, for example. That will give you an idea of what you don't want, but I know some people who can do it. I also know that there are mouthpieces out there that no one should really use for other reasons. I really think you should not worry so much about the numbers and try to get the concept of fit. See below. The gamut of mouthpieces out there seem to reside between 17 and 17.5mm. Is it dangerous to go smaller for even the thin lipped crowd (such as 16.5 on many Bach mouthpieces or the Schilke 27 or 28)? Again, the answer is no, depending on the fit to your lips. I think some of you have seized on my use of the term dangerous a bit too much in terms of numbers. What is dangerous is to set into or pin the upper lip, especially with a thin slanted in rim like the C series. That was what i originally said. The really thin lipped crowd need to play on smaller ID mouthpieces as a rule, and the rim shape needs to work with the shape of their lips. Also mentioning rims, what is your opinion on thin rims vs. the cushion variety when it comes to preventing maladies such as dystonia? I don't think it makes much difference, if any. My guess would be that the embouchure (and don't forget good air flow) that creates the least problems and tension in your playing would be a primary factor in the dystonia thing,
[Hornlist] Bad
Yes, Walt, we all enjoyed getting to know and working with Cecilia at camp. I'm surprised to hear that her camera survived that particular performance, as the Prof. hit an Ab above high C, or so people said. He doesn't have capped teeth, you know, just two steel plates, like that guy in the James Bond movies. Those are welded to the steel plate in his cranium that covers the hole where they removed the part of his brain that controls rhythm, intonation, tone quality, accuracy, musicianship and good taste. To set the record straight, though, any resemblance to the F. Strauss Notturno was purely coincidental. This was a completely different piece by a completely different Strauss, the Nachtmaro by F. U. Strauss. I think he might have been the PDQ of the Strauss family. If you are in Denver for the IHS conference next summer, you can have the pain of hearing him and the dishonor of meeting him there as he has been invited to give a presentation of his Lexicon of Clamology, with demonstrations, of course. This unfortunate event will take place because the statute of limitations on musical pornography (he was charged in Banff in '98) has run out so he'll be back at IHS for the first time since then. He also has commissioned Milt Phibbs to write a new piece both for camp and that event that will help him get his point across, whatever that is. I've heard that it's titled Fanfare for the Common Clam. Fortunately, he'll be conducting, not playing, in that one. KB Walt Lewis wrote: Kendall Betts scribe: took my teacher's advice as he states in his treatise, Hooked on Hornonics. I practiced Kopprasch No. 1 up an octave in Eb horn. That way I played high g's routinely, and loud! The f's in mf felt like third space c in comparison. Dear Kendall, One of my former students, a lovely young woman named Cecilia Kozlowski, came last summer to my home for an evening of duets and Kopprasch. Cecilia had this bootlegged video of Prof. G playing at your Horn camp. I was amazed at the quality of Prof. G's command of Strauss' Nocturno, although the good Professor had renamed the composition to suit his appreciation for the piece. I hope sometime before I hang my old Alex on the wall and the crazy glue holding my front caps on wears out, that I can attend your camp and also learn the joys of playing Kopprasch directly from the Master. Walt Lewis **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Music (was Elliot Carter Horn Concerto)
Yes, discussing MUSIC has a place on this list. The subject breached was ELLIOT CARTER! Reminds me of a story about Sir Thomas Beecham. He was being interviewed by the BBC. The interviewer asked Sir Thomas, do you ever perform the music of Arnold Schoenberg? He replied No. But I stepped in some, once. As to high f above high c, the only time I've ever played them in public was during performances of the Schultz Concerto Ex Dis. Several of them. Didn't miss any. Had a lot of 16th notes, so I oiled my valves really well, too. Ended the cadenza with a lip trill on a high c. Got paid a nice fee for the gig. Wouldn't have done the piece for free, even at home, alone. I was lucky that the piece was all in Eb and had very few rests, unlike Rigoletto. Also lucky that the most bars rest after the opening tutti was only four, so no problem counting those on one hand. Continuo player brought me in the first time by yelling Now really loud at the appropriate moment since the tutti was 32 bars long and I had run out of digits. Since I was a 1st horn player at the time, I was use to having an asst. count for me and bring me in. I prepared by lifting weights with my chops for months ahead of time. Also took my teacher's advice as he states in his treatise, Hooked on Hornonics. I practiced Kopprasch No. 1 up an octave in Eb horn. That way I played high g's routinely, and loud! The f's in mf felt like third space c in comparison. Also got my front crowns re-cemented in with Crazy Glue. Delta Dental did not honor the claim. Like I said earlier, insurance is a racket I got the idea from that commercial on TV with the guy hanging from the steel beam by his hard hat. The reviewer for the paper accused me of using steroids in order to enhance my performance. He retracted the statement and apologized publicly later after I explained in a letter to the editor that Kopprasch was not a steroid, just good healthy exercise. Sorry to stray from music to discuss adhesives, steroids and critics. KB PS: If you receive a horn by UPS with loose braces because they dropped it or whatever, file the claim, collect the money and then fix them yourself with Crazy Glue thus pocketing the insurance money. You can really scam them if you buy an old junker on eBay, unsolder the braces and add a few dents, ship it to a trusted friend insured for $25,000 making sure they write High Value Item: $25,000 in magic marker on the box, bang up the box when it arrives just in case they didn't, file the claim for a totaled horn, collect the money, let UPS keep the horn, have a big party, take a vacation to Hawaii or Las Vegas, whatever. This works good with cars, also, but don't try shipping a car UPS as they will make you double box it and you will spend more on bubble wrap and packing peanuts than the car is worth, unless it is an old Jugo or Ford Pinto. If you ship a Pinto, make sure you write FLAMMABLE on the box in big red letters. In a message dated 11/19/2007 1:00:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Richard of Seattle writes: Chacun a son gout...I guess. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point of blowing the horn was to make music, so doesn't talking about music have a place on this list? Comparing the various attributes of valve oil makes for interesting chit-chat, now and then, but I don't think that it's an end in itself, do you? What's the point of playing that high f above c without a musical context? Might as well take up weight lifting. I'm an old reprobate. I didn't like Schoenberg until the first time I played a Schoenberg composition. Ditto Webern and Petrassi. I didn't think much of Berio until a trombonist friend of mine, Stu Dempster, performed---and I do mean performed---a Berio piece. While I still would rather play anything by Brahms or Mozart or [insert name of favorite composer here] in comparison to some contemporary composers, the fact remains that our instrument is being presented with new challenges that are certainly worth discussing. Richard in Seattle Susan Thompson wrote: I agree that valve oil is more interesting...even when I'm playing natural horn. --Susan Thompson Kendall Betts wrote: Personally, I don't care much for Elliot Carter's music. Valve oil and it's related subjects are more interesting. Anybody agree? KB ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Elliot Carter Horn Concerto
Personally, I don't care much for Elliot Carter's music. Valve oil and it's related subjects are more interesting. Anybody agree? KB Peter H. writes: am always struck by how little interest this sort of thing seems to generate on this (memphis) list (as opposed to carrying instruments onto planes, gig bags, sore chops, who can supply a recital blurb on Hindemith, changing mpces., finding a piece that includes horn and - fill in the blank - and down the liet), but I really have no theory as to why. I don't mean to carp (well, maybe a little whitefish would be nice); I'm just perplexed. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re:Ethical dilemma - how to pack a horn for delivery
I'm sending this to both lists as it seems to have migrated. Due to many problems over the years with UPS, in particular two that have happened since moving the shop to NH, Lawson Horns is no longer shipping by UPS. The last straw was when UPS opened to box to see if the horn (valued at $11,000) was packed properly and damaged the instrument when they had it out of the case. They denied the insurance claim since the box was undamaged. We are now sending everything by USPS Priority Mail. Horns go by registered mail. A bit more time in packing as all seams on the box must be over sealed with paper tape. You must take it to the PO for shipment as they stamp the tape all the way around and it goes under escort to its destination. They do not throw the packages as those workers are bonded and follow procedures set up to insure safe handling of valuable items. This does not preclude packing the instrument well whether in a case or bubble wrapped. In the instance of screw bell horns without a case, I pack the bubble wrapped parts in two separate boxes. Depending on the distance, it takes 1-3 days longer than regular priority. Cost is about half of current UPS rates, including insurance. You can also pay more for Express Mail and get it there a bit sooner. I think you are taking the same chances with FedEx and DHL as with UPS as competition has forced them to cut corners. Insurance is a racket, anyway, and only designed for total loss, not damaged goods. The above mentioned horn, shipped from Staples, had High Value: $11,000 written on the box by the Staples employee, much to my protest! The manager at the store said this was UPS policy and there was nothing he could do about it. It was opened after it left the store, either for inspection or perhaps with the UPS employee having thoughts of arranging its disappearance. I had problems with FedEx over customs proceedures some years ago in shipping a horn to France, so I don't use them either any more. I am now recommending to our customers to ship horns in by USPS, registered Priority, as well. If I have any problems with the USPS, I'll let you know. So far, so good! KB In a message dated 11/17/2007 5:16:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, thehornrx [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: Even if you pack it this way (which is very safe) - UPS will deny any claim on it due to the fact that the instrument is NOT packaged in it's hard case. It's ironic that the safest was to package the horn is a way which UPS will deny any claims against it. (Believe me I KNOW!). Basically, insurance on sent horns is mostly to cover loss of the instrument. UPS seems to deny every claim at first blush, and Kerry's case was a rare instance of UPS 'giving in' - as any horn repair tech. or salesperson can attest. Ken Pope http://www.poperepair.com ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Shipping horns
Actually, registered mail has a tracking # and makes them more accountable. We are all still talking about the lesser of all evils, I'm afraid. KB Jeremy writes: Sure FedEx and UPS cut some corners from time to time, but at least they have the accountability of a tracking number which is more useful than USPS's poor excuse for tracking. J. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Shipping horns
So much for our Global Economy. huh? It's d**n difficult to ship a horn internationally but no problem for containers of lead painted toys (or some that had date rape drug ingredients in them), kilos of illicit drugs, pirated DVD's, CD's and software to get into the US and other countries. Maybe we should contact the Mafia or a local pusher for our shipping needs? Hey, that container shouldn't go back empty but the mule will have trouble getting the horn past airport security it the case doesn't fit under the seat! KB John K wrote: Canada Customs collects taxes on items shipped here but no duty regardless of carrier. The carrier also charges a brokerage fee. Canada Post charges a flat $5 fee. UPS and other couriers charge a minimum $35 which is then indexed to the value of the contents. This can often equal or even exceed the cost of the item. I chose long ago not make purchases from venders who ship UPS only. Jeremy wrote: I understand exactly where you are coming from. However, I have equally negative stories regarding USPS. I mail out CDs to customers on average of about 100 per month. Just this past month, the USPS has lost 7 discs alone. This is not an isolated incident. Similarly, I sent an envelope of discs to Switzerland about a month and a half ago. It arrived in my mailbox undelivered to its destination completely mangled with no reason as to why it was returned. I sent a $3000 piece of audio equipment to Greece and paid extra for insurance and tracking information. 5 months went by and no word. It finally got delivered - again, no word as to why the delay. Customs informed the person to whom I sent it that it was only in their possession for a couple days at most. Sure FedEx and UPS cut some corners from time to time, but at least they have the accountability of a tracking number which is more useful than USPS's poor excuse for tracking. J. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: RE: use of vowels to shape mouth cavity
Dr. David Steinhorn, a fine amateur hornist with an upper register problem at the time, and I did some in depth studies some years ago at the University of MN hospital. We used a bronchoscope designed to investigate lung disease in infants. It went up the nose, which was filled with ladacaine (a topical anaesthetic the consistency of vaseline, quite uncomfortable but did the job). The end of the long flexible tube had a fiber optic lens and light that was controlled by the operator. it could rotate 360 degrees. We looked at and videotaped horn players of different levels plus trumpeters, oboists, clarinetists, flutists and the tubist from the MN Orchestra. It showed that the throat of the best horn players as well as all of the professional wind/brass players stayed open throughout the ranges of the instruments. As to the student and amateur horn players, they all had tight upper registers (you could hear this in the sound) and the camera showed their throats closing as they went higher. We also did another test involving measuring the air pressure at the embouchure, in the throat and in the lungs simultaneously. This involved three plastic tubes running to a graphing machine. On inserted into the mouth next to the mouthpiece. The other two, one up each nostril. One was attached to a balloon at the end and was swallowed so that it could contract/expand with the lungs. The other was in the throat. A machine printed three graph lines indicating the air pressure as we played. David and I were the only players for that test. When he played high, there was a definite drop in air pressure at the throat and embouchure. My lines were exactly parallel throughout the range. My conclusion is that the throat should remain as open as possible, using the diphthong syllable HAWOOO when you play the horn in all registers. Any change of syllable changes the tone color and intonation and affects the response of the instrument as well. This is accomplished through athletic air support from the abdominal muscles. This is what I teach my students and the ones who get it do quite well. In the first test, I never got the shot I really wanted: out through the oral cavity. Even with swallowing and inhaling a whole tube of ladacaine, the slightest touch of the glottis with the tip of the bronchoscope caused a gag reflex. I really wanted to see the embouchure from behind and the action of the tongue doing different articulations. BTW, David did fix his upper register problems after some time studying with me. He, Bruce Lawson and I did a talk at the Rochester IHS workshop in 97 on the subject. My $100. KB In a message dated 8/7/2007 1:12:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:57 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] use of vowels to shape mouth cavity I have been succesful using vowels in horn pruduction of tone. I think that many students are using tah only to attack. Any one using other vowels. To even range and response I have found TUR below low g and pedel tones and TOW arong middle c, TAH aroung 2nd line G, The somewhere around C and TEA several notes before high note of phrase and PEA ( or as Farkas describes letter p).. Please try this with students and let me know how it works. Works for my STudents Elliott L. Higgins, Hummingbird Music Camp, American Horn Competition International In a message dated 8/7/2007 1:01:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: message: 4 date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:41:36 -0400 from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] RE: use of vowels to shape mouth cavity When I was a student at Oberlin - the vocal department brought in a = couple of researchers who had a camera hooked up to a tv monitor that could = view vocal chords. The idea was to look for nodes on the singer's chords = (not a good thing). Anyhow, the horn instructor there decided to see what, if anything, his vocal chords did while he played - and he was amazed to = find out that he was basically singing while playing! (Robert Fries was the = horn instructor - he had been co-principal with Mason Jones). Many of us from his studio viewed our vocal chords and found the same = thing. (it was an unpleasant experience to have the camera up your nose, and = down the back of your throat while you played). So much for the notion = that your throat is 'open' while you play Ken Pope Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 =20 ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
Re: [Hornlist] re: National Symphony and the year 1812
Years ago when I was with the Philadelphia Orchestra we were doing a July 4 Concert at the old Robin Hood Dell. Andre Kostalanetz was conducting and of course, the program was ending with the 1812 Overture. They had two fake cannons made out of plywood rigged with fireworks on either side of the stage. These were to shoot sparks and smoke whilst the stagehands were backstage firing shotgun blanks into 55 gallon oil drums, the usual practice there for the piece. When we got to the spot, the stage crew starting firing and the fake cannons starting emitting the sparks. The one on the cello-bassi side of the stage misfired and started burning. The back stands of cellists and the first stand of basses moved out quickly but we kept on playing. Kostalanetz, then in his 70's, got a mischievous smile on his face and then ran off the stage. He returned momentarily with a large CO 2 fire extinguisher and quickly extinguished the conflagration. The orchestra did not miss a beat or note and we finished the piece with Andre conducting from the cannon with the nozzle of the extinguisher. The audience, a full stadium at about 22,000, went nuts and we broke into the The Stars and Stripes Forever, the planned encore, with Kostalanetz now back on the podium, fire extinguisher still in hand, conducting with the nozzle up and down like a drum major. The audience clapped in rhythm so loud, we could barely hear ourselves and then went really nuts when the real fireworks started at the end of SnS. The late Gil Johnson, legendary 1st trumpeter and a real wag, commented: If Ormandy had been conducting, he probably would have called the cellists and bassists in for a reprimand for leaving the stage during the fire. I replied: if Ormandy had been conducting, he would have just let is burn, like Nero and Rome. KB ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Highest note
You're right. My mistake as I thought he meant concert F. Serves me right for reading/writing in a hurry and I never played that one. I wonder if Haydn had castrati horn players? KB In a message dated 5/30/2007 9:42:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Haydn 51 does go to a high F in the Minuet, above the high E in Haydn 48, so 51 is the winner. :-) Dan On May 30, 2007, at 7:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your corrected, Paul. Highest Haydn is No. 48, Maria Teresa. Horns in C alto. Two many hi D's to count! One hi E near the end just to top it all off. I called it the MOTHER Teresa! BK In a message dated 5/30/2007 1:58:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't Haydn Nr. 51 the highest symphony written by Haydn? It 'only' goes up to an F in the minuet. Do you mean the Hornsignal symphony when you say Haydn Nr. 39? If so, it is Symphony Nr. 31. Best wishes, Paul Rincon On 5/30/07, justin ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have two recordings besides london horn sound of people hitting the A above high C. One is the american horn quartet playing Haydn 39. The other is on audition improbable, in the practice tape track, I think it is the loudest A I have heard. Robson Adabo de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Guys I love the repertoire written for corno da caccia and I know that this repertoire was recorded by both horn players and trumpet players. I would like to know what's the highest note recorded by a horn player? I know that some of that pieces are really high, like Zelenka Capricci, Bach Cantatas, Neruda...But what's the the highest piece? Thank you very much Robson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Highest note
Your corrected, Paul. Highest Haydn is No. 48, Maria Teresa. Horns in C alto. Two many hi D's to count! One hi E near the end just to top it all off. I called it the MOTHER Teresa! BK In a message dated 5/30/2007 1:58:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't Haydn Nr. 51 the highest symphony written by Haydn? It 'only' goes up to an F in the minuet. Do you mean the Hornsignal symphony when you say Haydn Nr. 39? If so, it is Symphony Nr. 31. Best wishes, Paul Rincon On 5/30/07, justin ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have two recordings besides london horn sound of people hitting the A above high C. One is the american horn quartet playing Haydn 39. The other is on audition improbable, in the practice tape track, I think it is the loudest A I have heard. Robson Adabo de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Guys I love the repertoire written for corno da caccia and I know that this repertoire was recorded by both horn players and trumpet players. I would like to know what's the highest note recorded by a horn player? I know that some of that pieces are really high, like Zelenka Capricci, Bach Cantatas, Neruda...But what's the the highest piece? Thank you very much Robson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kernellenrek%40yahoo.com - 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/parsifal560sec%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Humour: Bushed Blog (Music Related)
In a message dated 5/28/2007 1:58:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Speaking of viola, just to stir up an old joke. The local music store is on fire, every thing has been pulled to safety except a saxophone, a viola and an electric guitar. You only have time to save two, what do you do? Place the sax and the guitar on top of the viola in order to assure that all three burn? ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] centering pitch
Now I'm curious to ask: do you spend any time practicing music without the horn? Solfege, dictation, aural harmony, piano, guitar, violin for example? KB In a message dated 5/18/2007 8:43:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 05/18 12:56, hans wrote: Heloo again, Evan, but tell me. How do you find the time, to do all these brain actions when playing any allegro-piece ? I cannot follow, sorry. Good morning, Hans. When I'm practicing music, I don't think about these things at all. I only think about them when I'm practicing them so that I can feel where things are. But when I practice music, I practice making the music feel and sound the way I think it should, or the way I think the conductor thinks it should, or ensemble-mates. Technique practice is for making technique habit, and refining the good habits, and noticing and reducing the bad habits. Music practice is for expressing the ideas in the music, hopefully with the good habits the technique practice develops so that technical issues don't interfere with the real reason we do this. Thanks -- Evan Cofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Play in a classical music Garage Band. See the world. http://www.mylifeismusic.org/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Centering Pitch (Now NHR)
We will. Just as soon as the last drop is used. Then I'll start using lanolin on my slides but what for valve oil? Biosene? Corn oil? KB In a message dated 5/18/2007 10:46:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It sure would be great if we could all lose our dependencies on petroleum, eh? (Just some food for thought.) ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] centering pitch
I don't know about how they do this in CA, Hans, but here in Yankeeland, we call Mayflower Van Lines or rent a U-Haul and do-it-ourselves. Of course, with gas now approaching old world prices, it's getting much more expensive to move, so it's probably better to just leave them be except when playing natural horn. KB In a message dated 5/18/2007 1:15:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello again, Evan, How do you move the notes away from their place ? ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Edgy Sound
Well, maybe works for some folks. I'm different now. I finally got warmed up, just like John Barrows said I would, just like he did. I warmed up every day for years: Farkas, long tones, scales, arpeggios, you name it. One day I was warmed up. Now I just pick the thing up and play a High C as loud as I can and go from there. It's a great way to start the day! Sometimes I miss it, and that's a real confidence booster, too. I don't miss that other stuff but I do it now and then just for practice sake. KB In a message dated 5/18/2007 1:42:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Evan, this is very NEW to me, the thing with the long notes. I am really surprised. Exactly that is the way, we have learned, how to start a practise session. I really wonder, that it must be mentioned mentioned again, that the ONLY way to good tone quality (incl. centered sound intonation) is over LONG NOTES (in many ways) SCALES. What kind of music teachers are out there ?? Did many of you ever receive real horn instructions ? I doubt it very much, sorry. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evan Cofsky Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 5:48 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Edgy Sound On 05/17 22:42, William Foss wrote: Dear List, There is a point on the dynamic spectrum at which I can no longer play with a 'normal' tone. At this point, which isn't very loud, the sound gets edgy and I don't feel that I have much control over the tone quality. For some time now, I have tried without success to get this problem under control. I realize that this brassy, edgy sound can sometimes be desirable as an effect. However, the undesirable sound is produced whether I am trying to sound brassy or not. Is there a set of etudes for this kind of problem? I would appreciate any advice on the subject. Thanks in advance. There are a lot of things that can cause this problem, and most seem to hinge on being too tense while playing. However, sometimes trying to eliminate tension just makes it worse in a nice vicious cycle. One thing that has worked well for me, instead of trying to force myself to relax, is to spend some time each practice session at the beginning just playing soft, long tones. Then, gradually intensify the sound without trying to play louder or more forcefully. Just try playing more. Find the point where the sound isn't comfortable, and then hold it just on the good side of that line. Then bring it back down, and try playing less instead of softer. Over the course of many practice sessions, you'll start to have more and more mastery over where that line is and how your playing relates to it, and you'll also be able to move it depending on the situation to a certain extent. Hope this helps -- Evan Cofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Play in a classical music Garage Band. See the world. http://www.mylifeismusic.org/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] centering pitch
Even in California? Just another question. KB In a message dated 5/17/2007 4:54:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 05/17 22:51, hans wrote: Do you play alone most of the time ? Just a question. When I practice I usually am by myself. When I'm in an ensemble, there are usually other people present. -- Evan Cofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Play in a classical music Garage Band. See the world. http://www.mylifeismusic.org/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Principal Horn Seat Musical Chairs
We tried this setup in Minneapolis years ago with Edo de Waart. I liked it, he liked it, the rest of the section and ww's did not. It lasted 2 rehearsals. This made sense to me as 4th horn was by celli/bassi and I was right next to oboes/bassoons. No brass or tympani behind us but ww were suffering with trumpets behind clarinets and trombones behind bassoons. Trumpets liked being near drums. Figures. KB In a message dated 5/6/2007 1:53:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has anyone of you ever watched the New Year Concert of the Vienna Philharmonic ? I doubt it. Otherwise you would know that they still sit in this classical way. Why do they ? It is easier for the first to adapt himself to the section. But it has advantage disadvantage as has the opposite, now internationally used sitting order left (1st) to right (4rth). Advantage: the section does less notice your mistakes in the tutti. You are not blowing into the 2nd horns body. Easier blending from 1st horns view. Placement on the podium must be somewhere on the right side, so the first horn can side next to 1st clarinet or 1st bassoon. Better contact with the woods. Disadvantage: As a first you hear the section better, which is not much fun in many cases. 2nd horn others blare right into your ears. In the case of your mistake you have to look to your left instead of the usual right, to hide your mistake by blaming your neihbour. There is a story from Freibergs time in Vienna, illustrating the bad place for the 2nd horn Otto Nitsch: Freiberg telling Nitsch (on his left): Not so loud, please !, while Leopold Kainz on 3rd further to the left yelled to Nitsch at his right: More, I cannot hear you ! All depends on the piece the arrangement on stage or in the pit. Well, in the pit there are not many variations. Sitting left will provide more opportunity to have a look to the stage, when sitting the Viennese way, but the 1st is engaged with playing more than others. This applies to regular sitting, where the horns are on the far left from the conductor. For the Italian setting (all winds to the right), it is much better with international sitting, as the 1st will sit further away from stage verse the audience, having an excellent view to the stage, if not placed infront of the timpani (Zubin likes that !), which ruins playing ears. I found the Viennese sitting order very good for the big pieces with 8 horns, seated in two rows, much up the stage at the right side from the conductor, as it provides better contact between woods first horn and trumpets trombones places on the left side up the stage dont blow into the horn players ears - and the bell, tilting the sound. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carlberg Jones Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:32 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Principal Horn Seat Musical Chairs At 10:25 PM + 5/5/07, harveycor wrote: Has anyone ever performed 1st horn in a concert where you have not been seated to the left of the section? yes, we did a mozart last season and the order of the winds from l to r was hn2 hn1 ob1 ob2 and it worked just fine. if you wish to pm this one; you may pm to: thanks, I did that this morning. -- Carlberg Jones Skype - carlbergbmug Cornista - Orq. Sin. de Aguascalientes Aguascalientes, Ags. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] musical idiot disgusting arranger.
Hans, This has been a money piece for me through the years! I always thought this arrangement was pretty good, done by Lucien Calliet, long time bass clarinet player in Philadelphia under Stokowski/Ormandy. Rumor always had it that he was the Bach/Stokowski arranger and not LS himself. Worst sounding arrangement I ever heard was Egmont Overture arranged for flute choir. Years ago, the Twin Cities Horn Club shared a concert with the TC Flute Club. They played their version and we played ours, arr. by Alan Civil for 8 horns. This was their idea and not a very good one! Of course. all arrangements for horns are great!!! KB In a message dated 5/5/2007 2:05:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about the band version of the Saens-Saens Romance == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Hollin Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:44 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] musical idiot disgusting arranger. The quintet version is another stupidity by a musical idiot disgusting arranger. ** The worst arrangement of any kind I have ever had the MISfortune to play is the Band score (Leidzen?) of Schubert's Unfinished. I have never come across ANYthing that transcribes worse for Band than this.I'm sure many of you have your own favorite WORSTS. This might make a fun list/thread. bh in MT - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] works for horn and wind ensemble
Don Haddad, Adagio and Allegro In a message dated 5/6/2007 6:23:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All this makes me wonder...are there any good (grade 6 and up) works that have been written for horn and wind ensemble? Not arrangements, but original works. And not Strauss or Mozart. Gary ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Teaching children, etc.
Good post about teaching. As to Bjork, I did think it was a bit bizarre. If they were putting on, then it was funny. Somehow, I think they were serious. I just thought the music was crap. As to accounting for taste, maybe this is a right coast/left coast thing? As to pop music, I have my favorites but not much of the latest stuff seems very good to me. Why do they leave the C off of rap? What ever happened to good old fashioned Rock 'N Roll? Why doesn't anyone sing like Johnny Mathis or Nat King Cole any more? Would Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis or Smokey Robinson get anywhere today? Would Peggy Lee win American Idol? What happened to Devo? Would anybody show up at the airport if the Beatles plane landed tomorrow? KB In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:24:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for Bjork, I am with Matthew on this one. She is a real character and her little back-up band of what appears to be kids, just adds to the surreal quality of the whole thing. Look at their serious little faces. I loved that. Actually Kendall, i am a bit surprised that a man with your complex and zany sense of humor would pass on her, but there is no accounting for taste- and that is a good thing. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Teaching children...
$75 a week! How many hours of instruction do they get? I teach HS and younger for free at my home. Some of them can't even afford a horn so I give them refurbished ex-school single F's to play on. Most parents take interest, which I agree is a good idea, and some don't. Some would if they had more time but they are struggling to make a living and just get by. Once in a while, there's a real problem, like substance abuse or domestic violence. If the kid needs parenting, I advise where I can. I saw Bjork on SNL and she stinks. Her band wasn't very good, either. Just a bunch of garbage that's all been said before presented in a gimmicky way. The all-girl brass section sounded like they had just finished Tune-a-Day book 1. Would you really rather go to her show than play the Brandenburg or did I just misunderstand what you wrote? KB In a message dated 5/1/2007 2:30:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I find the same thing here in Colorado Howard. 85% are doing it for their parent unit, nothing really wrong with that, but the commitment level is not too high sometimes. This lack of commitment is not fun to teach. Here is how I solve this. I teach from a very positive slant, IE. life lessons through Horn-ed, more specifically, learning how the fragile adolescent mind works learning the horn ( mostly how their OWN mind works). With my young students the PARENTS have to commit to the lessons. They are required to be at all the lessons and take notes. This is a Suzuki method and I like the results. I don't like wasting my time and I would rather chop wood than teach a student that does not want to be there. The parents get the idea quick and will pull out of the 75USD a week if their kid cannot play the first etude after 6 weeks. I don't generally have to fire any students and this method works really well. In general, music is a good training for other professions. There is no reason to turn anyone away if they are not going to be a professional. At least in my university position non-music majors really want to be in my lessons!! My top non-music major performed the Hindemith Sonata with piano today in our group brass class. He played great and worked very hard. Ok, flipping though TV tonight, the band Arctic Monkeys are playing tonight. They went triple Platinum in like 3 hours when their album came out. I like the band! I really want to see Bjork when she comes to Red RocksI have a Brandenburg that night JeezI hope Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms goes Platinum!!! It deserves a couple. Matthew Scheffelman ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Modern works for Natural horn
Elegia fuer Naturhorn, Hermann Baumann In a message dated 5/1/2007 11:38:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Burdick wrote: I am working on a list of compositions written since 1900 for the natural horn. So far the list is quite short. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Teaching children...
Matthew, Well, you won't change my mind about Bjork. Big time nothing in my book. I don't know this other band you mention. I'll check it out if I have time. Your conductor probably thinks ornaments are only on Christmas trees, so don't worry about it. Just make sure yours are legal. No upward mordents and nothing before the beat! As to philanthropy, position (financial means) is only part of the equation. It starts in one's heart. Some people are more generous than others both with their time and their money. When it comes to philanthropy and volunteer work, time spent helping people often can be worth far more than giving money. Do what you can, either way, The rewards are great. My philosophy is to help people play better. If kids are interested, I find no reason not to teach them, whether they can pay or not. 3 hours a day practice is a ridiculous requirement, except for music majors on scholarship. I expect them to practice enough to make progress and I let them know when they are not. Generally speaking, if you make learning interesting, people get excited and practice plenty. KB In a message dated 5/1/2007 10:33:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kendall, Actually, Bjork to my ears is great. Her band was unrefined, yes i agree, but I liked that, kind of like a atonal wind up music box. Her movie Dancer in the Dark was a beautiful piece. She starred and sang all the music. Yes, that comment was a bit misunderstood, I am looking forward much more to our Brandenburg's, though the conductor will most likely flip out when he hears my ornaments for the minuet and trio. The jeez was for the triple platinum for the Arctic Monkeyswow triple or double platinum in either a few hours or days...crazy. Good for you and your philanthropy, I will hope to be in a position to offer those opportunities you speak of in the future. While I give many free lessons over the year, my lesson rate is expensive too. Personally, I am not looking to have a huge studio of younger students, maybe if all of them were practicing 3 hours a day!! Usually a young student will come in and I will refer them to another teacher I trust in the area, free of charge of course. Mostly it because the parents cannot meet my requirement to be at the lessons. That method works well from my perspective. all the best, Matthew ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Best Schools, competition Means Nothing, and actually
So, you want to be a pro. Here's what I recommend: 1. Pick 5 or 6 schools that look good to you and apply for scholarships to them. 2. Go the one that gives you the a free ride. A BM in performance is a useless degree and has the lowest academic standing so don't pay for it. If you are going to pay, major in something else or music education but pursue the horn on your own, maybe study with the teacher there if he/she is good and play in ensembles. If you don't get any professional opportunities, you can at least fall back on your other degree. Also, looks very good for grad school applications where you might go and find yourself. 3. If you do get a free ride, WORK YOUR ASS OFF if you expect to be the least bit competitive when you graduate. Just remember that the whole idea is to get better than everyone else. You won't, but at least you'll probably have entry-level skills and self confidence. Expect to take auditions into double digits until you get a living wage job or wait around for years in a big city to get enough freelancing and teaching to make a decent living. A lot of it is just plain luck: right place, right time. Expect a lot of disapointments and much frustration. If you do get a symphony gig, that's when the real trouble starts: working WITH some real jackasses at times and working FOR mostly IDIOTS! Kendall Betts BM, 1969, Curtis Institute of Music (non-accredited but it was FREE) Working musician since 1965 Half scholarship/half tuition academic student, earned half of credits for BS, University of Pennsylvania, 1967 Business man since 1965 Horn/music instructor since 1967 Misoptimist since birth Get the right notes, the right rhythm and don't play too loud. It's a business. Mason Jones, 1965 ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Lubricating Valves
I wouldn't use lanolin on the slides. Mixing animal fat with petroleum is not a good idea. You'll end up with a white slimy mess which eventually will gum up your valves. Get some wheel bearing grease. A $1.79 tub will last you a lifetime. KB In a message dated 4/23/2007 12:11:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Stephanie Thurston wrote: I just bought a brand new Conn 8D, and I was looking through the pamphlet that it came with describing how to clean it. It said to lubricate horn valves to place valve oil down the tuning slide of the adjacent valve. I've never had of my private teachers or directors tell me to do this and I'm unsure whether to do it. Any advice? Stephanie -- The following was from a post one of the list gurus made some time ago. His preferred oils are: light oil (50/50 Al Cass/Blue Juice); medium oil (Buffet key oil). I use a very long needle oiler for placing one drop of oil directly on the rotor face. ** Oiling-inside valves with light oil- daily Oiling-bearings with medium oil-every 3 or 4 days Slides-medical grade pure lanolin-whenever a slide starts to feel very easy to pull. Maybe every two weeks or so. This regimen is based on about 4-5 or more hours playing per day. Medical grade lanolin is available in tubes in drugstores. It is made for mothers who are breastfeeding-so it is generally found in the baby section-one brand name is Lashinoh. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] What makes Conns desirable?
), Lawson Fourier, and I believe a Hoyer, respectively. Paul Rincon On 4/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you know what Myers, Betts and Bloom now play? Would be interested to know. Ron ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/parsifal560sec%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Schilke on lacquer
Schilke is talking about baked, epoxy lacquer. That's what is on commercial instruments and some smaller makers do this. Bruce Lawson says this stuff has about a 15% dampening effect on the horn sound. We use acrylic lacquer and it is not baked. This is much thinner and has very little dampening effect, under 2%, The disadvantage is that it does not hold up as long as the baked epoxy. I've had two instruments gold plated with no change to them. I have never been able to discern any difference in the playing qualities of an acrylic lacquered horn, before and after. I have always felt a difference in an epoxy lacquered horn. That's why so many Conn 8D players had their horns stripped as it improved the sound and response. If you are thinking about lacquering your horn, I think you will be happy with the look of either material but expect a different response and sound with the epoxy but less longevity with the acrylic. KB In a message dated 4/22/2007 1:40:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the only research that I know of concerning the effects of different finishes: http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Brass%20Clinic.html#Finishes Joyce Schilke's essay seems to give a quite definitive NO vote on lacquer. And you certainly see many more unlacquered horns now. In the future, will we regard lacquered horns as a fad? Dan ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Kerosene
Sorry for this post, my teacher who normally replies to such nonsense took the day off. Re: _Click here: Medical Encyclopedia: Kerosene (Print Version)_ (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/print/ency/article/002807.htm) Yes, if you swallow it or inhale a huge amount of fumes for an extended period! So, now a question: What valve oil available commercially does NOT contain kerosene or other PETROLEUM distillate? (Hetman synthetic is not a good answer because synthetics are chemical clones of naturals). If the stuff is so bad, I think some politicians would have regulated it by now. Gotta go! It just occurred to me to try cooking spray on my valves! Never done that! Maybe I'll move over to Vermont, join a commune, eat nothing but organically grown bean sprouts and play the dulcimer. Oh my god, a tree DIED in order to make that dulcimer! What am I to do? KB ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Happy Birthday Hans Pizka
I heartily second the motion! May you have another 100 Long Calls, Hans! Kendall Betts In a message dated 3/17/2007 5:14:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear friends of the Horn! Let me congratulate Prof. Hans Pizka to his 65 years on earth. I hope he keeps his sarcastic humor and never lasting embouchure for many more years coming. Ois Guade Hans!! Liebe Gruesse/Best regards, Hans Illich ** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Another You Tube....Schumann's Konzertstuck
Yes, very nice playing! Horns: Dohr - appears to be Yamaha triple Clevenger - appears to Paxman descant w/low F extension Garcia - Probably Alex 103 Schrekenberger - Probably Alex 103 KB In a message dated 3/14/2007 6:28:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fascinating, thank you for this link! They play extremely well together! I hope this video isn't infringing in copyright too :) Does anyone know the makes of the horns they each are playing on in this video? Steven Slaff On 3/14/07, Rob Kathner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just found this one on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4dtVsYoNjY Enjoy! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sslaff%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com BRBRBR**BR AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Synesthesia
I want to thank everyone who contributed to the palliation of this thread. KOPPRASCH EFFECT: Child shows great initiative, discipline and attention to detail. Gains self confidence. Learns to do things properly and correctly the first time. Grows up to become rich, famous and good looking. KB In a message dated 2/23/2007 8:52:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another spelling is palette which seems to me a better choice for one's spread of color resources. Mansur's Answers On Feb 22, 2007, at 9:48 PM, Simon Varnam wrote: Do you have it too, Matthew, or is your spelling of pallete a simple typo? :-) On 2007/02/23, at 3:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curiously, he had the gift of Synesthesia. I think that fact alone may explain much of his sound palate. Matthew Scheffelman Interesting topic. Thanks for bringing it up. I wonder if this could be connected to transposition too; the feeling of intervals as distances. I'd assumed it was a learned ability. Hm... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kendallbetts%40aol.com BRBRBR**BR AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Soprano on the horn
In a message dated 2/8/2007 1:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fred B commented on what Tony S said on TV: That must have been the AE version - the original HBO version was: You = $^!*%# lie like I $^!*%# play the $^!*%# french horn. To avoid offending readers on the hornlist, you should write: You =$^!*%# lie like I $^!*%# play the $^!*%# *** horn. Really, Fred, you ought to know better by now. Gotta go, Cabbage Where I grew up, 2 hours south of Tony S. and Co., in Exit 2, NJ, it was referred to as the $^!*%# French $^!. Many of my friends had last names ending in vowels and hated others with similar names from Da nort which included the cities of Noork and Nyark whereas they had loyalty to their ethnic colleagues from Flufdia and Landic Cidy. At All State, fights would break out over what was better: Geyer or Kruspe wraps. This was only between the parents. Most of my friends had Conns and Holtons with the serial numbers filed off. KB ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re:recital rep
In a message dated 2/4/2007 2:45:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: by the way Kendell, I don't think failing to be rich has anything to do with itmore likely the resent they did not choose the Horn!! HA Thanks for your opinion, AU, Matthaw. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] recital repertoire
In a message dated 2/3/2007 5:34:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So my questions are as follows: Is this a legitimate college-level (music education) program? Yes. IMO, it's more than enough. Should I be required to memorize this piece? No Does anyone have any suggestions for a 20th century piece that would be easy to memorize? Not really. I think it is ridiculous that you have to memorize anything at all. Ask that so-called professor that if he/she is so smart, then why ain't they rich? Good luck, Rebecca. Kendall Betts _www.horncamp.org_ (http://www.horncamp.org) _www.lawsonhorns.com_ (http://www.lawsonhorns.com) Rebecca's full inquiry: Sorry for the double post. I am in desperate need of information. I have proposed a recital program to my department for my senior recital, which is about a year from now. They are starting to make a requirement that our recitals must be memorized, and so I have to petition to not memorize something. Here is the proposed program: sacred piece (less than 5 minutes, memorized) Mozart horn quintet (15-20 minutes, no repeats except in last movement, not memorized) Franz Strauss nocturne (5-6 minutes, memorized) Hindemith horn sonata (15-20 minutes, not memorized) The area where the friction lies is the Hindemith. My teacher does not want me to memorize it, but 2 of the 3 people making the decision want me to. One of the professors (who is not a horn player) claimed that the Hindemith is easy to memorize, and is not a hard piece. I have already informed the department that I won't play it unless I don't have to memorize it. I am also only a music education major, not a performance major. So my questions are as follows: Is this a legitimate college-level (music education) program? Should I be required to memorize this piece? Does anyone have any suggestions for a 20th century piece that would be easy to memorize? If the people responding to this can also supply their credentials in their responses, that would be helpful. Thanks. -Rebecca ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] low horn solo
Nielsen - Canto Serioso Neuling - Bagatelle Bach/Hoss - Cello Suites KB In a message dated 1/11/2007 10:00:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am a college student and was looking for a low horn solo. By that I do NOT mean one that is just a bunch of bass clef stuff (the hole time), but for one who has facilty in the low range and would like it to show off that quality. I want to use it for a masterclass, and wish it to be one that is performable at one. thanks justin. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] KENDALL BETTS HORN CAMP 2007
THIRTEENTH ANNUAL KENDALL BETTS HORN CAMP CAMP OGONTZ LYMAN, NEW HAMPSHIRE JUNE 9 - 24, 2007 _www.horncamp.org_ (http://www.horncamp.org) UNIQUE SEMINAR AND RETREAT STUDY, PERFORM AND HAVE FUN FOR ONE WEEK OR TWO IN THE BEAUTIFUL WHITE MOUNTAINS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE INTENSE DAILY SCHEDULE CURRICULUM TAILORED TO THE INDIVIDUAL PERFORMER FUNDAMENTALS, TECHNIQUE AND MUSICIANSHIP SOLO REPERTOIRE AND RECITAL PREPARATION ORCHESTRAL REPERTOIRE AND AUDITION PREPARATION PRIVATE LESSONS AND MASTER CLASSES PUBLIC RECITALS AND ENSEMBLE CONCERTS 2007 FACULTY TO INCLUDE: JEFFREY AGRELL, University of Iowa HERMANN BAUMANN, Soloist KENDALL BETTS, Minnesota Orchestra, ret. LIN FOULK, Western Michigan University RANDY GARDNER, Philadelphia Orchestra, ret. LOWELL GREER, Soloist MICHAEL HATFIELD, Indiana University, emeritus DOUGLAS HILL, University of Wisconsin-Madison RICHARD MACKEY, Boston Symphony Orchestra, ret. ABBY MAYER, Mercy College JESSE McCORMICK, Cleveland Orchestra BERNHARD SCULLY, Canadian Brass EDWIN THAYER, National Symphony, ret. ARLENE KIES, Pianist MILTON PHIBBS, Composer in Residence FINE FACILITIES AND GREAT FOOD IN A RUSTIC, IDYLLIC, COUNTRY SETTING AT BEAUTIFUL CAMP OGONTZ VERY REASONABLE COST ALL HORN PLAYERS AGE 15 AND OLDER ARE WELCOME TO APPLY: AMATEURS, PROFESSIONALS, STUDENTS, EDUCATORS SCHOLARSHIPS AWARDED ON A COMPETITIVE BASIS FOR STUDENTS AGE 15-27 ENROLLMENT IS LIMITED TO ENSURE PERSONAL ATTENTION WITH A PARTICIPANT TO FACULTY RATIO OF 4:1 IMPROVE YOUR MUSICIANSHIP! ACHIEVE A STANDARD OF EXCELLENCE! _www.horncamp.org_ (http://www.horncamp.org) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Happy Holidays
In a message dated 12/24/2006 5:08:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Additionally, a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year 2006, Duoh, Wendell, it's gonna be 2007 but thanks for the good wishes anyway! LB ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Lawson Brass Instruments (was Re: [Hornlist] Conn Rose Brass)
Hello All, Yes, I now own LBI and we will be moving to NH when my new staff are trained by Walter, Bruce and Paul. They will continue to work as consultants well into the future. Walter will continue to make mouthpieces as long as he wants to. All current products and services are still available and will be in the future. Some new products are in the works. Details on those when they are ready. I'm planning to be at NE IHS Workshop at Mansfield, PA in March with a display. I may try to make some of the other regional workshops if possible and I am planning to be in Denver in '08 assuming the roads are open by then. Please write or call if you have questions or interest in our products. More info at _www.lawsonhorns.com_ (http://www.lawsonhorns.com) . Thank you and all best wishes, Kendall Betts In a message dated 12/21/2006 7:15:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 12/20/2006 6:26:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the report on Lawson is true, it will be sad to see the business close. But somehow I sense that it will be in good hands once it moves to New Hampshire. -- This report is true. The operation will continue in Boonsboro for about six months, then move to New Hampshire. The business isn't closing, it's just changing hands. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Complete set of Absent Soloist CD
Chris, I'll buy them. We can use them at KBHC! Send me your address and I'll mail you a check. Thanks! Kendall Betts In a message dated 12/17/2006 4:20:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Firstly, pardon to all for the double post. I am selling a complete set of Absent Soloist CDs in New condition. This includes all 4 Mozart horn concerti and Haydn 1. Normally priced at 135 Pounds, I'm selling the entire set for $130 including Express Mail (1-2 days most places. Always been 1 day for me). It would make a perfect holiday gift for any horn studio or enthusiast and will help me register for classes! Please contact me offlist at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you are interested. If i have no interested parties, I will accept near offers Thanks, Chris PS if you reply, please remove the [hornlist] or [horn] from the subject, as I have my hornlist mail filtered and I will be able to reply quicker. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Announcement of Interest for High School Seniors
The University of New Hampshire Department of Music announces the 2007 UNH Young Artist Scholarship for horn, violin, viola, oboe, bassoon February 24, 2007 SCHOLARSHIP AWARD Non-resident - $50,000 tuition scholarship offered over 4 years* ($12,500 per year for tuition) Resident - $28,000 tuition offered over 4 years* ($7,000 per year for tuition) ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS The scholarship competition Is open to high school seniors planning to major in music and will be held at the Paul Creative Arts Center. University of New Hampshlre, Durham, NH on February 24, 2007. Call 603-862-2418. or e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) to schedule. This competition will take the place of the regular entrance audition. REGISTRATION DEADLINE February 1, 2007 The contestant must submit the undergraduate application to the University Admissions Office before the February 1, 2007 deadline AUDITION REQUIREMENTS Horn: First movement of Strauss’ First Horn Concerto. accompanied and first movement of any one of Mozart’s four horn concertos, unaccompanied. Violin: First movement, with cadenza of Mozart’s Concerto in D, K.218, accompanied, and any two movements from a Bach solo sonata or partita, unaccompanied. Viola: A movement of Schubert’s Arpeggione Sonata. Accompanied, and any two movements from a Bach suite, unaccompanied. Oboe: First movement of Mozart’s Concerto in C, K.314, accompanied, and one of Barret’s Fifteen Grand Studies. Bassoon: Bourdeau’s Premier Solo,accompanied, and a choice of the 3rd movement of Mozart’s Concerto in Bb, K.491 or the 2nd movement of Telemann’s Sonata in F minor, unaccompanied. In addition to the requirements listed above, you may be asked to demonstrate major scales and sight reading. A written music theory test will be administered as part of the audition process. An accompanist will he provided for the required pieces but competitors may bring their own if preferred. One winner will be chosen from the competition. Should the committee consider none of the candidates to be meritorious, a “no prize” decision will be rendered. All competitors will be considered for other music scholarship opportunities. *Awards will be applied to tuition only. The total of other tuition scholarship (University merit awards and/or Smyth Fund) and the music tuition scholarship cannot exceed the cost of tuition. Scholarships will not be awarded until the competitor has been admitted to the University. Regular audition dates are Dec. I, 2006; Jan. 27; Feb. 16. 17. and 19, 2007. (There are scholarships available for other instruments and voice. Please schedule an audition.) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Leadpipes (was French Besson Trumpets)
Hello Dave and Listers: All true what you said about hours and hours of design and testing but I think your description of the manufacturing of a pipe is a bit simplistic. Since I'm working on a batch of pipes, learning to make them right, I'll list details and approximate times so the folks will know. Cut and heat treat approx. 2' of tubing - 2 secs. to cut, 1 hour or more to heat treat in furnace. Step end of pipe and rough step taper pipe on hand press - 10 min. Soap mandrel and pipe, screw mandrel on hydraulic press - 30 seconds Draw pipe - 30 seconds Remove pipe from mandrel, remove mandrel from press, clean both - 1 min. Heat treat pipe - 1 hour or so Cool pipe, heat pitch and fill pipe, cool again - 30 min. Cut bending block from wood and finish edges smooth - 15 min Measure precisely and cut receiver end of pipe exactly so it plays right when finished - 2 min (measuring precisely is a small step omitted by most manufacturers). Bend pipe - 30 seconds Get wrinkles in pipe, heat, remove pitch, throw in trash - 2 min Swear like a sailor, treat cuts, burns, broken fingernails, etc. - another 5 min or so Start over at top of list - 3 hours, 2 secs. Get good bend this time, remove pitch, 2 min. Make cap - first 7 steps above without rough step taper plus bead end on lathe - 2 hrs., 50 min., 2 sec. Make slide connector - inner and outer straight tube - cut, bead on lathe - 5 min Make cap ferrule cut and bead on lathe - 2 min. Cut blank from sheet metal, heat treat, press, grind, shape and finish hand guard - 15 min. Solder parts together, stamp name and number - 10 min or so Clean, buff and polish - 30 min. or more. If doing nickel silver, add some time for polishing. Now, these are all the processes, and you make parts like caps, ferrules, slide receivers in batches. If you have all your parts made, cleaned and ready to go, it is still at least an hour solid time from start (bending) to finish (assembly and buffing) to make a finished pipe if nothing goes wrong. So now you have a very good idea of what you are paying for in a custom leadpipe. And what is worth in order to play better? Kendall Betts Apprentice Horn Maker In a message dated 11/3/2006 10:55:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 11/3/2006 12:44:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would translate both hills and sips in them as hills and dips along the taper, that is, the taper never decreasing, but sometimes increasing faster. Put a straight edge along it, and you'll see hills and dips. -- You're right, in that this is the only interpretation of the story that makes any sense. It reminds me of a story which Walt Lawson told me (I'll leave out details and names) about a suggestion to make a leadpipe with a straight taper. Walter had to point out that this had been proven to be a poor design for a horn. When you think about it, there is infinite variation in possible leadpipe designs, but only a very few actually work well. That's why makers get a lot of money for good pipes. They put a lot of work into the design. I've seen leadpipes being made. It takes only a few minutes of actual labor to draw a pipe. But only think of the hundreds of hours it takes to design the pipe, to install and maintain the machinery, and then to test and prove the pipe! Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
