Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[OK Don via Mercedes]

All the propane powered genny sets that I've read the specs on say they
require a liquid propane line, not the gas. That solves the evaporation
cooling problem, and delivers more BTU to the genny engine, though they are
still very thirsty, as propane has a fraction (I should know but don't
remember) of the carbon to burn that gasoline does, which is less than
Diesel/fuel oil.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 8:09 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Its the torpedo heater though, those really slurp down the propane. I
> suspect a generator of significant size would have the same problem.
> A 100# would work better but of course would be decidedly not handy.
> A forklift tank would work too but I don't know where you'd get one
> filled. All the hardware stores and whatnot are geared for 20# tanks.
> Which reminds me. At camp we usually exchange our tanks, the price is
> decent and its convenient.I went and had 2 filled last year. I was shocked
> by how much heavier they felt. It'll be interesting to see how much longer
> 20# lasts. I know they claim the exchange fills are 15# but I'm starting to
> have doubts.
> -Curt
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 9:01:57 PM EST, Allan Streib <
> astr...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>
>  Curt Raymond  writes:
>
> > For cooking/heating use I don't think tank size is a problem until you
> > get down to the BBQ (20#) tank size. I remember reading that at -20F a
> > BBQ tank wouldn't produce enough vapor pressure to run a stove but I
> > suppose that depends on what stove.
>
> I have a propane heater I sometimes use in the garage (torpedo
> heater). With a 20# BBQ tank, the tank will start to frost up after
> about 30 min and the burner flame/heat output diminishes. This is at far
> above -20F, maybe more like +30F or so.
>
> Allan
>
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>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Propane tanks all use pressure regulators, regardless of the tank size, and
delivery pressure is regulated to, I believe something like 11 inches of
water column , or some arcane unit of measure.
Anyway try a look at this for more answers than I have.

https://gashosesandregulators.com/propaneregulatorfacts.php

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 8:53 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yep, connection point is about 4ft off the ground.
>
> On 2/14/2021 9:44 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:
> > You are probably correct.  I would guess 100# tanks would work if you
> have a hookup about four foot off the ground -- that's the usual height I
> think.  Usually in pairs if I remember correctly, they used to be pretty
> common around here for gas stoves when the house had oil or wood heat.
> >
> > Those overheat infared heaters are really nice since the radiant heat
> actually warms up the floor and bench, unlike thinks such as torpedo
> heaters.
> >
> > I have an ancient converted oil burner furnace that gobbles propane, but
> haven't managed to get a newer furnace installed.  Picked up one from a
> friend only to find it's a downdraft that can't be converted to updraft OR
> propane (no parts, it's too old) so I'm still on the hunt for a modern
> furnace.  Won't make it easier to heat a barely insulated building, but at
> least less of the heat will go up the stack.  I'd guess I'm currently
> around 40% efficiency, which is terrible.  Probably wasting a ton of
> propane with the pilot too, I need to shut it off when I'm not out there,
> you can probably boil water on it.
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Yep, connection point is about 4ft off the ground.

On 2/14/2021 9:44 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:

You are probably correct.  I would guess 100# tanks would work if you have a 
hookup about four foot off the ground -- that's the usual height I think.  
Usually in pairs if I remember correctly, they used to be pretty common around 
here for gas stoves when the house had oil or wood heat.

Those overheat infared heaters are really nice since the radiant heat actually 
warms up the floor and bench, unlike thinks such as torpedo heaters.

I have an ancient converted oil burner furnace that gobbles propane, but 
haven't managed to get a newer furnace installed.  Picked up one from a friend 
only to find it's a downdraft that can't be converted to updraft OR propane (no 
parts, it's too old) so I'm still on the hunt for a modern furnace.  Won't make 
it easier to heat a barely insulated building, but at least less of the heat 
will go up the stack.  I'd guess I'm currently around 40% efficiency, which is 
terrible.  Probably wasting a ton of propane with the pilot too, I need to shut 
it off when I'm not out there, you can probably boil water on it.
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

You are probably correct.  I would guess 100# tanks would work if you have a 
hookup about four foot off the ground -- that's the usual height I think.  
Usually in pairs if I remember correctly, they used to be pretty common around 
here for gas stoves when the house had oil or wood heat.

Those overheat infared heaters are really nice since the radiant heat actually 
warms up the floor and bench, unlike thinks such as torpedo heaters.

I have an ancient converted oil burner furnace that gobbles propane, but 
haven't managed to get a newer furnace installed.  Picked up one from a friend 
only to find it's a downdraft that can't be converted to updraft OR propane (no 
parts, it's too old) so I'm still on the hunt for a modern furnace.  Won't make 
it easier to heat a barely insulated building, but at least less of the heat 
will go up the stack.  I'd guess I'm currently around 40% efficiency, which is 
terrible.  Probably wasting a ton of propane with the pilot too, I need to shut 
it off when I'm not out there, you can probably boil water on it.
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Re: [MBZ] Covid and price of cars

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I believe that version has a 6 ft long bed, instead of a full size truck 8
ft bed. I call it the "city boys truck".
Interior of cab has every known luxury, so that part is nicely equipped.
It's just challenged to haul a cord of wood, or a stack of 4x8 plywood.


On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 6:19 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  That could be a pretty good deal.I hate the chrome "lady bits massager"
> for a shifter handle.
> Is it just me or does the bed look really short? I can't tell if its the
> cover but the proportions look weird.
> -Curt
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 7:07:40 PM EST, Allan Streib via
> Mercedes  wrote:
>
>  Here's one that's older
>
>
> https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/d/chicago-2005-ford-150-lariat-71k-miles/7275090467.html
>
>
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
>
> >  Rick,
> > Find me a 5 year old 4wd extended cab pickup truck with no rust and
> under 80,000 miles for under $25,000 and I'll give you a $500 finders fee.
> > Around here if it runs and drives the price is double what it was last
> year and there aren't very many choices.
> > In 2014 when we were truck shopping I could get a brand new Ford F150
> STX 4wd extended cab v8 for $28,000. Today that's the price for a 4 year
> old one, if you can find one.
> >
>
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>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I was digging thru pics on my cell phone to see if I still had a pic of 
the label for those heaters out there.  I can't remember what BTU they 
are, I want to say they are 150k btu, but not sure. That would dictate 
what size tank it needs I assume.  I would only be running it for a few 
hours on weekends on occasion if that.  It is my understanding it I 
remember when researching this before is you have to have a certain flow 
volume depending on the size of the heater, even if there is still 
propane in the tank once it gets down to a certain point there wont be 
enough pressure to run whatever heater you are trying to run.  Or, I may 
just be on crack and remembering all this wrong.


On 2/14/2021 8:13 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
Out here a lot of people have the 100# tanks for cooking/heating. You 
can get them refilled with a truck.
It'd be interesting to know what pressure those heaters want though. A 
stove wants low pressure, some heaters want high pressure. Makes a big 
difference in how you work your install.


-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 9:08:43 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes  wrote:



More shop propane questions. I am not sure what the PO of Okie acres 
did, i see no evidence of a big propane tank being installed on the 
property. There is a gas line connection at the back of the shop and I 
suspect maybe they used those 100lb tanks and just took them down and 
filled them. Would this be the way to go or get a big permanent tank? 
Will these 100lb tanks run these big overhead heaters? I would 
probably only actually run one of them, not both at the same time.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 7:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>
>  This reminds me of a question about tanks.I've got 4x 100# tanks 
that have been on the farm, well probably 50 years. Are they useful 
for refilling or should I send them for recycling? We've never 
refilled them for the camp because they're hard to handle and we only 
use 2x 20# cans in a normal week at camp. Actually before we got the 
fridge we wouldn't even use 2 full tanks.

>
> -Curt
>
>    On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 8:18:07 PM EST, Scott Ritchey via 
Mercedes mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>
> Kaleb,  You need to think through which circuits need to be on the 
backup system and which don't (unless you get a really big 
generator).  The typical home has a 200 amp service entrance, which is 
almost 50KW.  My house already had an outdoor breaker panel as part of 
the meter and an indoor fuse box (which became a breaker panel). I 
tried to put all the critical circuits on the indoor breaker panel and 
then power that panel through the transfer switch (so everything on 
the indoor CB panel could be generator powered).  The electrician did 
not exactly follow my desires so neither heat pump is on the 
generator.  That is only a problem in summer because I have LP 
fireplaces. Some of the Generac kits include a sub-panel (of sorts) 
that you mount next to the main (existing panel).  That critical 
circuits get moved to that subpanel and that subpanel is powered 
through the transfer switch.  But I think that setup looks crappy in 
the main part of the house.

>
> Another option is to power the whole-house panel through the 
transfer switch but selective turn off unnecessary breakers. Finally. 
There are devices you can use for specific loads, like a water heater, 
that will disconnect that load if it detects the generator is overloaded.

>
> In NC, you can buy or rent the tank.  If you use enough LP in a year 
the rent can be free.  But if you rent, only that company can deliver 
LP to the tank.  If the tank is above ground, switching to a different 
LP supplier (who will provide his own tank) is easy. Generators use LP 
quickly, at least compared with other things.  One of the reasons for 
a larger tank is to maintain pressure during high usage.  The tank 
needs to absorb enough heat from the environment to "boil off" LP gas 
as you use it.

>
> Preferably, locate the generator so the engine exhaust will blow 
away from the house.

>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List >

> Cc: Kaleb Striplin mailto:ka...@striplin.net>>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
>
> I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off 
propane, and also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. 
Maybe even replace the stove/oven with propane instead of electric

>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>>
>> Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an 
ice storm.  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard 
the generator running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator 
was nice to have then but there are costs.

>>
>>

Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Interesting, I should ask about that the next time I get one filled. I'd like 
to get a couple for camp, it'd be nice to be able to go 2 weeks on a fill. I'd 
still keep 20# tanks around since they can be exchanged its handy if somebody 
says "What can I pay for?" you just send them to the grocery store...

-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 9:19:30 PM EST, Jim Cathey 
 wrote:  
 
 > A forklift tank would work too but I don't know where you'd get one filled.

I have three for Big Bertha.  I get them filled the same places I get BBQ tanks 
filled.

-- Jim

  
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> A forklift tank would work too but I don't know where you'd get one filled.

I have three for Big Bertha.  I get them filled the same places I get BBQ tanks 
filled.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Out here a lot of people have the 100# tanks for cooking/heating. You can get 
them refilled with a truck.It'd be interesting to know what pressure those 
heaters want though. A stove wants low pressure, some heaters want high 
pressure. Makes a big difference in how you work your install.
-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 9:08:43 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 More shop propane questions. I am not sure what the PO of Okie acres did, i 
see no evidence of a big propane tank being installed on the property. There is 
a gas line connection at the back of the shop and I suspect maybe they used 
those 100lb tanks and just took them down and filled them. Would this be the 
way to go or get a big permanent tank? Will these 100lb tanks run these big 
overhead heaters? I would probably only actually run one of them, not both at 
the same time.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 7:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>  This reminds me of a question about tanks.I've got 4x 100# tanks that have 
> been on the farm, well probably 50 years. Are they useful for refilling or 
> should I send them for recycling? We've never refilled them for the camp 
> because they're hard to handle and we only use 2x 20# cans in a normal week 
> at camp. Actually before we got the fridge we wouldn't even use 2 full tanks.
> 
> -Curt
> 
>    On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 8:18:07 PM EST, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
> wrote:  
> 
> Kaleb,  You need to think through which circuits need to be on the backup 
> system and which don't (unless you get a really big generator).  The typical 
> home has a 200 amp service entrance, which is almost 50KW.  My house already 
> had an outdoor breaker panel as part of the meter and an indoor fuse box 
> (which became a breaker panel). I tried to put all the critical circuits on 
> the indoor breaker panel and then power that panel through the transfer 
> switch (so everything on the indoor CB panel could be generator powered).  
> The electrician did not exactly follow my desires so neither heat pump is on 
> the generator.  That is only a problem in summer because I have LP 
> fireplaces.  Some of the Generac kits include a sub-panel (of sorts) that you 
> mount next to the main (existing panel).  That critical circuits get moved to 
> that subpanel and that subpanel is powered through the transfer switch.  But 
> I think that setup looks crappy in the main part of the house.
> 
> Another option is to power the whole-house panel through the transfer switch 
> but selective turn off unnecessary breakers. Finally. There are devices you 
> can use for specific loads, like a water heater, that will disconnect that 
> load if it detects the generator is overloaded.
> 
> In NC, you can buy or rent the tank.  If you use enough LP in a year the rent 
> can be free.  But if you rent, only that company can deliver LP to the tank.  
> If the tank is above ground, switching to a different LP supplier (who will 
> provide his own tank) is easy.  Generators use LP quickly, at least compared 
> with other things.  One of the reasons for a larger tank is to maintain 
> pressure during high usage.  The tank needs to absorb enough heat from the 
> environment to "boil off" LP gas as you use it. 
> 
> Preferably, locate the generator so the engine exhaust will blow away from 
> the house. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> 
> I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
> also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
> stove/oven with propane instead of electric 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice 
>> storm.  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the 
>> generator running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice 
>> to have then but there are costs.  
>> 
>> I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of 
>> a bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but 
>> I still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died 
>> several times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case 
>> to rust.  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  
>> 
>> At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
>> UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
>> battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  
>> 
>> I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should 
>> be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and 
>> would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO s

Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Its the torpedo heater though, those really slurp down the propane. I suspect 
a generator of significant size would have the same problem.
A 100# would work better but of course would be decidedly not handy.
A forklift tank would work too but I don't know where you'd get one filled. All 
the hardware stores and whatnot are geared for 20# tanks.
Which reminds me. At camp we usually exchange our tanks, the price is decent 
and its convenient.I went and had 2 filled last year. I was shocked by how much 
heavier they felt. It'll be interesting to see how much longer 20# lasts. I 
know they claim the exchange fills are 15# but I'm starting to have doubts.
-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 9:01:57 PM EST, Allan Streib 
 wrote:  
 
 Curt Raymond  writes:

> For cooking/heating use I don't think tank size is a problem until you
> get down to the BBQ (20#) tank size. I remember reading that at -20F a
> BBQ tank wouldn't produce enough vapor pressure to run a stove but I
> suppose that depends on what stove.

I have a propane heater I sometimes use in the garage (torpedo
heater). With a 20# BBQ tank, the tank will start to frost up after
about 30 min and the burner flame/heat output diminishes. This is at far
above -20F, maybe more like +30F or so.

Allan
  
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

More shop propane questions. I am not sure what the PO of Okie acres did, i see 
no evidence of a big propane tank being installed on the property. There is a 
gas line connection at the back of the shop and I suspect maybe they used those 
100lb tanks and just took them down and filled them. Would this be the way to 
go or get a big permanent tank? Will these 100lb tanks run these big overhead 
heaters? I would probably only actually run one of them, not both at the same 
time.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 7:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>  This reminds me of a question about tanks.I've got 4x 100# tanks that have 
> been on the farm, well probably 50 years. Are they useful for refilling or 
> should I send them for recycling? We've never refilled them for the camp 
> because they're hard to handle and we only use 2x 20# cans in a normal week 
> at camp. Actually before we got the fridge we wouldn't even use 2 full tanks.
> 
> -Curt
> 
>On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 8:18:07 PM EST, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> Kaleb,  You need to think through which circuits need to be on the backup 
> system and which don't (unless you get a really big generator).  The typical 
> home has a 200 amp service entrance, which is almost 50KW.  My house already 
> had an outdoor breaker panel as part of the meter and an indoor fuse box 
> (which became a breaker panel). I tried to put all the critical circuits on 
> the indoor breaker panel and then power that panel through the transfer 
> switch (so everything on the indoor CB panel could be generator powered).  
> The electrician did not exactly follow my desires so neither heat pump is on 
> the generator.  That is only a problem in summer because I have LP 
> fireplaces.  Some of the Generac kits include a sub-panel (of sorts) that you 
> mount next to the main (existing panel).  That critical circuits get moved to 
> that subpanel and that subpanel is powered through the transfer switch.  But 
> I think that setup looks crappy in the main part of the house.
> 
> Another option is to power the whole-house panel through the transfer switch 
> but selective turn off unnecessary breakers. Finally. There are devices you 
> can use for specific loads, like a water heater, that will disconnect that 
> load if it detects the generator is overloaded.
> 
> In NC, you can buy or rent the tank.  If you use enough LP in a year the rent 
> can be free.  But if you rent, only that company can deliver LP to the tank.  
> If the tank is above ground, switching to a different LP supplier (who will 
> provide his own tank) is easy.  Generators use LP quickly, at least compared 
> with other things.  One of the reasons for a larger tank is to maintain 
> pressure during high usage.  The tank needs to absorb enough heat from the 
> environment to "boil off" LP gas as you use it. 
> 
> Preferably, locate the generator so the engine exhaust will blow away from 
> the house. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> 
> I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
> also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
> stove/oven with propane instead of electric 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice 
>> storm.  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the 
>> generator running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice 
>> to have then but there are costs.  
>> 
>> I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of 
>> a bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but 
>> I still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died 
>> several times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case 
>> to rust.  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  
>> 
>> At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
>> UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
>> battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  
>> 
>> I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should 
>> be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and 
>> would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to above-ground.  
>> 
>> Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages 
>> didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common 
>> previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I traveled 
>> for work in those days).
>> 
>> For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do 
>> the job mu

Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2021-02-14 14:10, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

Probably gone by now, but if not it would be a good flip candidate. I
doubt Dan wants anything from the rust belt.



Tried contacting him, was reminded that he sold it when he bought a big 
white Silverado.


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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Some years ago I had a spreadsheet that would compare various fuel sources. I 
remember one year when oil was high and I didn't have good wood supply that 
electric was the way to go. I also remember one year in the polar vortex where 
I was really glad I'd laid in a good wood supply.
I buy my wood green, it increases in value by sitting in the backyard. With our 
current boiler its slightly cheaper to heat with wood. Once we replace the 
boiler and gain some efficiency it'll probably be cheaper to use oil. I'll 
probably still burn a bunch of wood, it gives me something to do...
-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 9:01:17 PM EST, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 > Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay 
 > for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper.

If you have to buy firewood it's not cost-effective.  I've never paid for any, 
but there's certainly
a labor component involved.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Speaking of propane, in the 5 years we have been here, I have never used the 2 
big overhead gas heaters in the shop. Would make work out there so much better. 
I need to either lease or buy a propane tank and get it filled. Every time I 
think about it, it’s winter. When is the best time of year to do this as far as 
pricing is concerned? I figured summer time.  What is the going price of 
propane there days?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 7:17 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm debating what to put in the farmhouse. I'd like to go propane but not 
> sure that the copper pipes I'm used to still meet code. My parents house has 
> a copper line but that was put in back in 1980...
> 
> What ever I do will almost certainly be a used stove (probably gas). I'm not 
> refurbishing an 1890s farmhouse and making it look like a modern condo.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 6:37:42 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
> also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
> stove/oven with propane instead of electric 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice 
> > storm.  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the 
> > generator running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice 
> > to have then but there are costs.  
> > 
> > I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of 
> > a bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but 
> > I still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died 
> > several times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the 
> > case to rust.  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  
> > 
> > At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes 
> > many UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete 
> > the battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  
> > 
> > I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that 
> > should be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be 
> > cheaper and would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to 
> > above-ground.  
> > 
> > Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages 
> > didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common 
> > previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I 
> > traveled for work in those days).
> > 
> > For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do 
> > the job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power 
> > panel with a mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).  
> > The main drawback of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it 
> > fresh. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
> > To: Okie Benz 
> > Cc: Dan Penoff 
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> > 
> > It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up 
> > front cost, though, if you do it right.
> > 
> > -D
> > 
> >> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one 
> >> of these day. 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
>  On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>   wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my 
> >>> annual fill for the standby generator…
> >>> 
> >>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
>  On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>   wrote:
>  
>  Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
>  snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 
>  30 minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end 
>  up having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. 
>  It would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the 
>  time you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep 
>  firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
>  
>  Sent from my iPhone
>  
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>  
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>  
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
>  
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> 
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/ar

Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Curt Raymond  writes:

> For cooking/heating use I don't think tank size is a problem until you
> get down to the BBQ (20#) tank size. I remember reading that at -20F a
> BBQ tank wouldn't produce enough vapor pressure to run a stove but I
> suppose that depends on what stove.

I have a propane heater I sometimes use in the garage (torpedo
heater). With a 20# BBQ tank, the tank will start to frost up after
about 30 min and the burner flame/heat output diminishes. This is at far
above -20F, maybe more like +30F or so.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay for 
> firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper.

If you have to buy firewood it's not cost-effective.  I've never paid for any, 
but there's certainly
a labor component involved.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
> also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
> stove/oven with propane instead of electric 

Co-generation is nice.  Use the waste heat from the genny to heat the shop.  
When
Big Bertha is on the whole garage gets warm, even with the bay doors open.  It 
lives in
the garage.  45kW Kohler.  3g/h on propane even with no load.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 For cooking/heating use I don't think tank size is a problem until you get 
down to the BBQ (20#) tank size. I remember reading that at -20F a BBQ tank 
wouldn't produce enough vapor pressure to run a stove but I suppose that 
depends on what stove.
Even in northern Maine a lot of folks use 100# tanks for cooking and heating 
and it gets to -30F there fairly regularly.
I suspect that the hourly usage of a large compressor would be more than a 
stove which could lead to the tank freezing up but I think it'd have to be 
really cold.
-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 8:49:10 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  writes:

> The tank needs to absorb enough heat from the environment to "boil
> off" LP gas as you use it.

Is there some way to use the waste heat from the generator engine to
heat the LP tank? You probably wouldn't need to do it in the summer
though.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  writes:

> The tank needs to absorb enough heat from the environment to "boil
> off" LP gas as you use it.

Is there some way to use the waste heat from the generator engine to
heat the LP tank? You probably wouldn't need to do it in the summer
though.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I have a thousand gallon propane tank in the back yard I use to fuel the 
furnace in the pole barn.  When my parents built the house in 1956 propane and 
fuel oil were the two choices, no natural gas line. 

When the local utility put in natural gas in the 80's Mom got tapped in and 
converted the furnace in the house (hot water boiler) and got a gas stove --Pop 
would not put in a gas stove due propane being denser than air -- had 
investigated a few explosions due to propane or butane pooling in a basement.  

I don't keep the tank full, usually only use a couple hundred gallons a year.  
Still have a propane wall furnace in the room Mom and Pop converted from a big 
porch, but I've not used it in years.  I have it there if the power goes out 
for an extended period, it will probably keep the pipes from freezing.
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 This reminds me of a question about tanks.I've got 4x 100# tanks that have 
been on the farm, well probably 50 years. Are they useful for refilling or 
should I send them for recycling? We've never refilled them for the camp 
because they're hard to handle and we only use 2x 20# cans in a normal week at 
camp. Actually before we got the fridge we wouldn't even use 2 full tanks.

-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 8:18:07 PM EST, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Kaleb,  You need to think through which circuits need to be on the backup 
system and which don't (unless you get a really big generator).  The typical 
home has a 200 amp service entrance, which is almost 50KW.  My house already 
had an outdoor breaker panel as part of the meter and an indoor fuse box (which 
became a breaker panel). I tried to put all the critical circuits on the indoor 
breaker panel and then power that panel through the transfer switch (so 
everything on the indoor CB panel could be generator powered).  The electrician 
did not exactly follow my desires so neither heat pump is on the generator.  
That is only a problem in summer because I have LP fireplaces.  Some of the 
Generac kits include a sub-panel (of sorts) that you mount next to the main 
(existing panel).  That critical circuits get moved to that subpanel and that 
subpanel is powered through the transfer switch.  But I think that setup looks 
crappy in the main part of the house.

Another option is to power the whole-house panel through the transfer switch 
but selective turn off unnecessary breakers. Finally. There are devices you can 
use for specific loads, like a water heater, that will disconnect that load if 
it detects the generator is overloaded.

In NC, you can buy or rent the tank.  If you use enough LP in a year the rent 
can be free.  But if you rent, only that company can deliver LP to the tank.  
If the tank is above ground, switching to a different LP supplier (who will 
provide his own tank) is easy.  Generators use LP quickly, at least compared 
with other things.  One of the reasons for a larger tank is to maintain 
pressure during high usage.  The tank needs to absorb enough heat from the 
environment to "boil off" LP gas as you use it. 

Preferably, locate the generator so the engine exhaust will blow away from the 
house. 



-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 6:37 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
stove/oven with propane instead of electric 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice storm. 
>  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the generator 
> running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice to have 
> then but there are costs.  
> 
> I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of a 
> bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but I 
> still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died several 
> times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case to rust. 
>  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  
> 
> At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
> UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
> battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  
> 
> I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should 
> be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and 
> would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to above-ground.  
> 
> Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages 
> didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common 
> previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I traveled 
> for work in those days).
> 
> For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do 
> the job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power panel 
> with a mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).  The main 
> drawback of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it fresh. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> 
> It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up front 
> cost, though, if you do it right.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one 
>> of these 

Re: [MBZ] Covid and price of cars

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 That could be a pretty good deal.I hate the chrome "lady bits massager" for a 
shifter handle.
Is it just me or does the bed look really short? I can't tell if its the cover 
but the proportions look weird.
-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 7:07:40 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Here's one that's older

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/d/chicago-2005-ford-150-lariat-71k-miles/7275090467.html


Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  Rick,
> Find me a 5 year old 4wd extended cab pickup truck with no rust and under 
> 80,000 miles for under $25,000 and I'll give you a $500 finders fee.
> Around here if it runs and drives the price is double what it was last year 
> and there aren't very many choices.
> In 2014 when we were truck shopping I could get a brand new Ford F150 STX 4wd 
> extended cab v8 for $28,000. Today that's the price for a 4 year old one, if 
> you can find one.
>

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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Kaleb,  You need to think through which circuits need to be on the backup 
system and which don't (unless you get a really big generator).  The typical 
home has a 200 amp service entrance, which is almost 50KW.  My house already 
had an outdoor breaker panel as part of the meter and an indoor fuse box (which 
became a breaker panel). I tried to put all the critical circuits on the indoor 
breaker panel and then power that panel through the transfer switch (so 
everything on the indoor CB panel could be generator powered).  The electrician 
did not exactly follow my desires so neither heat pump is on the generator.  
That is only a problem in summer because I have LP fireplaces.  Some of the 
Generac kits include a sub-panel (of sorts) that you mount next to the main 
(existing panel).  That critical circuits get moved to that subpanel and that 
subpanel is powered through the transfer switch.  But I think that setup looks 
crappy in the main part of the house.

Another option is to power the whole-house panel through the transfer switch 
but selective turn off unnecessary breakers. Finally. There are devices you can 
use for specific loads, like a water heater, that will disconnect that load if 
it detects the generator is overloaded.

In NC, you can buy or rent the tank.  If you use enough LP in a year the rent 
can be free.  But if you rent, only that company can deliver LP to the tank.  
If the tank is above ground, switching to a different LP supplier (who will 
provide his own tank) is easy.  Generators use LP quickly, at least compared 
with other things.  One of the reasons for a larger tank is to maintain 
pressure during high usage.  The tank needs to absorb enough heat from the 
environment to "boil off" LP gas as you use it. 

Preferably, locate the generator so the engine exhaust will blow away from the 
house. 



-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 6:37 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
stove/oven with propane instead of electric 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice storm. 
>  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the generator 
> running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice to have 
> then but there are costs.  
> 
> I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of a 
> bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but I 
> still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died several 
> times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case to rust. 
>  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  
> 
> At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
> UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
> battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  
> 
> I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should 
> be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and 
> would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to above-ground.  
> 
> Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages 
> didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common 
> previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I traveled 
> for work in those days).
> 
> For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do 
> the job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power panel 
> with a mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).  The main 
> drawback of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it fresh. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> 
> It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up front 
> cost, though, if you do it right.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one 
>> of these day. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my 
>>> annual fill for the standby generator…
>>> 
>>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
 snow 

Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I'm debating what to put in the farmhouse. I'd like to go propane but not sure 
that the copper pipes I'm used to still meet code. My parents house has a 
copper line but that was put in back in 1980...
What ever I do will almost certainly be a used stove (probably gas). I'm not 
refurbishing an 1890s farmhouse and making it look like a modern condo.

-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 6:37:42 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
stove/oven with propane instead of electric 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice storm. 
>  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the generator 
> running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice to have 
> then but there are costs.  
> 
> I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of a 
> bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but I 
> still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died several 
> times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case to rust. 
>  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  
> 
> At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
> UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
> battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  
> 
> I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should 
> be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and 
> would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to above-ground.  
> 
> Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages 
> didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common 
> previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I traveled 
> for work in those days).
> 
> For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do 
> the job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power panel 
> with a mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).  The main 
> drawback of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it fresh. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> 
> It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up front 
> cost, though, if you do it right.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one 
>> of these day. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my 
>>> annual fill for the standby generator…
>>> 
>>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
 snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 
 30 minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up 
 having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It 
 would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time 
 you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep 
 firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I'm super pleased with my Battery Minder. The batteries in the Pisten Bully 
were pretty much flat when I tried to start it back in December. I hauled them 
home and gave each 24 hours on the Minder in maintenance (desulfate?) mode and 
24 hours on the dumb charger at 6 amps. I don't remember what size they are but 
they're big, like you'd have in a diesel Mercedes.
Back in the machine they worked perfectly, especially the night we had a 
plugged fuel screen and had to crank on it a lot to reprime the system.
At the end of the season I'll put them on the Minder for a week each. I did 
that with the ASV before the season started. Shoulda done the Bully too but 
nobody asked.

-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 6:11:54 PM EST, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice storm.  
I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the generator 
running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice to have then 
but there are costs.  

I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of a 
bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but I 
still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died several 
times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case to rust.  
I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  

At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  

I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should be 
good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and would 
let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to above-ground.  

Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages didn't 
justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common previously 
and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I traveled for work in 
those days).

For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do the 
job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power panel with a 
mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).  The main drawback 
of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it fresh. 



-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
To: Okie Benz 
Cc: Dan Penoff 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up front 
cost, though, if you do it right.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one of 
> these day. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my 
>> annual fill for the standby generator…
>> 
>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
>>> snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30 
>>> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up 
>>> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It 
>>> would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you 
>>> pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood 
>>> around for use in the case of emergency.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Geez, I wish we had 12". We've gotten maybe that much this year total and its 
all been fluffy light stuff, hardly worth grooming.
We've been out twice this year though. I'm training a new guy which is fun for 
me. I think the other groomer operators like having me do the training. They're 
both good operators but have a really hard time letting somebody else take 
control.
-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 5:44:18 PM EST, greg via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 We've had more snow than I can remember for here, about 12" accumulation.
There are lots of power outages just south of here, freezing rain has
taken down trees. I'm lucky power has not been interrupted here, I should
have an emergency supply of wood for the stove.

Greg in the PNW

> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow
> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30
> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up
> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It
> would
> Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay
> for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood
> around for use in the case of emergency.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The terms LP and Propane are used interchangeably,  But technically, propane is 
a one particular gas molecule while LP usually contains several different gas 
molecules.  But they all burn just fine.  Compared to natural gas, LP is liquid 
(much denser) at relatively low pressures.  Compressed natural gas must be 
stored under much higher pressures (thousands of psi).  One drawback of LP (vs 
CNG) is that LP is heavier than air and can accumulate on low places (like a 
basement or bilge of a boat).  LP prices tend to track the price of gasoline 
unless you buy a lot at a time.  The delivery trucks and personnel are a large 
part of the cost of selling residential LP.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of OK Don via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 7:00 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: OK Don 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

I need to do the same, but there will be a bunch of re-wiring to be done.
Our system is a mess form historical add-ons and no requirement to follow codes.
Is LP and propane the same thing?

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 5:37 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < 
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off 
> propane, and also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. 
> Maybe even replace the stove/oven with propane instead of electric
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an 
> > ice
> storm.  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the 
> generator running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was 
> nice to have then but there are costs.
> >
> > I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was 
> > part
> of a bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty 
> clean but I still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start 
> battery has died several times without much warning and battery acid 
> damaged allowed the case to rust.  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that 
> will help.
> >
> > At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which 
> > causes
> many UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and 
> deplete the battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.
> >
> > I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) 
> > that
> should be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be 
> cheaper and would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to 
> above-ground.
> >
> > Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power 
> > outages
> didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very 
> common previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual 
> system (I traveled for work in those days).
> >
> > For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator 
> > should
> do the job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a 
> power panel with a mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).
> The main drawback of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping 
> it fresh.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
> > To: Okie Benz 
> > Cc: Dan Penoff 
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> >
> > It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big 
> > up
> front cost, though, if you do it right.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup 
> >> generator
> one of these day.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
>  On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my 
> >>> annual fill for the standby generator…
> >>>
> >>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
>  snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over 
>  the
> last 30 minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I 
> may end up having to haul in some firewood and firing up the 
> fireplace/insert. It would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump 
> useable but by the time you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be 
> any cheaper. I keep firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
>  ___
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>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/lis

[MBZ] Anybody need a 3.5?

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/232329915012775/


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[MBZ] 08 E350 4Matic - $6,500

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

107k miles. According to posted VIN, it has M272 engine 272972 30 946550
which indicates it has the improved balance shaft gear.

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/cto/d/oak-lawn-2008-mercedes-e350-4matic/7277064091.html

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Here dealers will say the doc fees are required by the state. That is a lie. 
They are not required to charge doc fees at all. The law says if they charge 
doc fees they have to charge it to everyone. If somebody throws a fit they can 
deduct the amount off the sale price but it will still have to charge it in the 
fees.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:56 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> When we bought the RAM I nearly walked over the doc fees. 30 years ago when 
> there was a secretary typing it out I didn't like it but understood. Today 
> they enter the price and the computer spits out all the forms automatically. 
> IIRC it was $300 and I told the salesman that if the doc fee continued to 
> show up he could shove the paperwork where the sun doesn't shine.
> 
> They said they'd take the doc fee off the price of the truck. I told them 
> it'd have to be $500 off the price of the truck, he didn't even blink...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 11:47:22 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> That’s the whole deal with Carvana and Carmax, no pressure and upfront 
> pricing. As far as add ons, not sure about Carvana but I bought a GL at 
> Carmax several years ago and they still charged doc fees just like any 
> dealer. They also offered aftermarket warranties for add on costs as well. 
> 
> I think with carvana they have some sort of deal were if you don’t like it 
> you can return it within a certain amount of time for a full refund. It’s 
> baciallj supposed to be just like shopping for a TV or something. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One 
> > big advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer 
> > does, the slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.
> > 
> > Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
> > them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often 
> > charge more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you 
> > don’t have to do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees 
> > on a web site.
> > 
> > -D
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
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> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Covid and price of cars

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Here's one that's older

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/d/chicago-2005-ford-150-lariat-71k-miles/7275090467.html


Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  Rick,
> Find me a 5 year old 4wd extended cab pickup truck with no rust and under 
> 80,000 miles for under $25,000 and I'll give you a $500 finders fee.
> Around here if it runs and drives the price is double what it was last year 
> and there aren't very many choices.
> In 2014 when we were truck shopping I could get a brand new Ford F150 STX 4wd 
> extended cab v8 for $28,000. Today that's the price for a 4 year old one, if 
> you can find one.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 A guy I hunt with bought a 9mm last fall, can't get any ammo. We stopped at a 
gun shop a week ago, they had gotten a shipment of 9mm, it was all sold in like 
20 minutes.
They did have a box of .22 short I picked up for my dad. I also scored a box of 
.300 Savage "just because". When I got home I realized I had 3 other boxes. 
Paid $39 for the new box, one of the boxes I have I bought back in the '90s for 
$7...
The worst thing right now is that there aren't any primers to be had. Between 
dad and I we've got lots of powder and bullets but not a ton of primers.
Looking at Gun Broker people are selling percussion caps for $30/100. I've got 
300 I bought for $5/100 a year ago. Now I wish I'd bought a few thousand at 
that price.
I just got a 12 pack of flints in and my local shop has a steady supply of 
black powder...

-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 12:56:42 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Ahh, yes, a nice 1911 is always a good choice. I haven’t looked at the 
firearms market of late, but I’ve heard it’s a crazy place, no doubt much like 
the car market.

ML500 went to Haiti. Long story. Suffice to say I made money on the deal.

I can wait, I’m not under any pressure. I was just caught off guard by the 
state of the market. I knew there was demand with the stimulus checks, but I 
had no idea how bad it was. I suspect it will get worse before it gets better, 
since tax return time is coming as well.

What I found stunning was that some big, high volume Ford dealers here don’t 
have squat, even in new inventory. Kaleb pretty much spelled it out, but still, 
I was amazed as these are dealers that have literally hundreds of vehicles on 
their lot at any given time. Brandon Ford, one of the highest volume dealers in 
the southeast, has almost nothing new or used.

Guess I’ll stay on the sidelines for now. Not a big deal, the S320 wagon and 
SL500 are chugging away doing yeoman’s work without complaint or issues. And I 
have no car payments, too.

-D


> On Feb 14, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>> These things don’t seem to last long. I’m truly >amazed that if things are 
>> so bad for so many >people why there is such a big market for used >trucks
> 
> Sounds like "car fever". I get it. I have "Kimber fever" right now. After a 
> year of being told "no", the consumer market is bursting with pent-up demand.
> 
> As I responded to Craig's post about a used ML, things are tight in the car 
> market. There is a semiconductor shortage, so automakers have had to scale 
> back production of new cars and trucks. That makes used trucks more in 
> demand. Then there's the promise of some sort of stimulus check (down payment 
> at buy here, pay here) and even the prospect of Universal Basic Income. It's 
> a bubble, and it will pop. Stay on the sidelines until you find your deal. Do 
> you still have the ML? I'd buy a utility trailer for now. It seems very few 
> people understand the value of a small 5'*9' trailer.
> 
> 
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I need to do the same, but there will be a bunch of re-wiring to be done.
Our system is a mess form historical add-ons and no requirement to follow
codes.
Is LP and propane the same thing?

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 5:37 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane,
> and also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even
> replace the stove/oven with propane instead of electric
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice
> storm.  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the
> generator running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice
> to have then but there are costs.
> >
> > I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part
> of a bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean
> but I still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died
> several times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the
> case to rust.  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.
> >
> > At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes
> many UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete
> the battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.
> >
> > I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that
> should be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be
> cheaper and would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to
> above-ground.
> >
> > Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages
> didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common
> previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I
> traveled for work in those days).
> >
> > For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should
> do the job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power
> panel with a mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).
> The main drawback of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it
> fresh.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
> > To: Okie Benz 
> > Cc: Dan Penoff 
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> >
> > It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up
> front cost, though, if you do it right.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator
> one of these day.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
>  On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my
> >>> annual fill for the standby generator…
> >>>
> >>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10,
>  snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the
> last 30 minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end
> up having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It
> would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you
> pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood
> around for use in the case of emergency.
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 When we bought the RAM I nearly walked over the doc fees. 30 years ago when 
there was a secretary typing it out I didn't like it but understood. Today they 
enter the price and the computer spits out all the forms automatically. IIRC it 
was $300 and I told the salesman that if the doc fee continued to show up he 
could shove the paperwork where the sun doesn't shine.
They said they'd take the doc fee off the price of the truck. I told them it'd 
have to be $500 off the price of the truck, he didn't even blink...
-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 11:47:22 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 That’s the whole deal with Carvana and Carmax, no pressure and upfront 
pricing. As far as add ons, not sure about Carvana but I bought a GL at Carmax 
several years ago and they still charged doc fees just like any dealer. They 
also offered aftermarket warranties for add on costs as well. 

I think with carvana they have some sort of deal were if you don’t like it you 
can return it within a certain amount of time for a full refund. It’s baciallj 
supposed to be just like shopping for a TV or something. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One big 
> advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer does, 
> the slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.
> 
> Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
> them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often 
> charge more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you don’t 
> have to do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees on a web 
> site.
> 
> -D
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 As another example of how car prices out of whack our 2003 Ranger 4wd 4.0l 
extended cab SLT with 25,000 miles, in 2008 cost just over $10k...
The pre-newest-style Rangers didn't have the option of crew cab in the USA. 
Some (most?) of the extended cabs have suicide doors. One of the annoying 
things about ours was that the switch or sensor or whatever that detected that 
the rear doors were open would get stuck. It didn't tell you which one, just 
that one door was still open. Those needed logic that told them that the front 
door was closed and therefore the rear door couldn't possibly be open.
Oh and ours sucked on gas, best it ever did was 19mpg and that was really 
babying it. Towing the 190D it got 9mpg. Small fuel tank too, you were limited 
to, IIRC 300 or so miles at best. The Dodge RAM 4wd 5.7l, extended cab, that 
replaced it has gotten as high as 23mpg and regularly turns in 18. When I towed 
the 240D it got 15...
The Ranger was better in the woods though, no question. It could fit a lot of 
places the RAM can't.

-Curt

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 11:44:18 AM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 It appears that the delivery thing is extra, although there’s no charge for 
it. There is one of their places close to me, so I guess I could go look at 
something if they had it.

I’ve been looking at Ford Rangers and everything they’ve had is “pending”. 
Seems like the local dealers don’t have squat, or they’re turning them over so 
quickly they aren’t putting them on their web sites.

A nice 2010 Ford Ranger with under 100k and the extended (not crew) cab seems 
to command around $13k-$15k. If a dealer gets involved there’s easily another 
$1000 for their @$#&% “fees”, something I’m trying to avoid.

I’m not ready to pull the trigger just yet, but I’m trying to do some due 
diligence so when I do I’m ready to act quickly, These things don’t seem to 
last long. I’m truly amazed that if things are so bad for so many people why 
there is such a big market for used trucks - especially when the difference 
between new and used is pretty minimal as you get to later models.

For what it’s worth, if anyone knows of something like this, let me know - I’ll 
travel for the right deal.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> This girl I know looked at a coupla cars, they brought them to her place on a 
> flatbed and could do the deal right there, give a trade-in credit 
> (essentially buy your old car for a specified price) and haul off the old 
> car.  Sort of a mobile Carmax. She ended up not buying either one, whoever 
> showed up didn't care one way or the other.  She liked the process. 
> Interesting concept.  They must have lots scattered around where they keep 
> the cars then haul them around as needed.
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 2/14/21 11:16 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One big 
>> advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer does, 
>> the slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.
>> 
>> Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
>> them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often 
>> charge more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you 
>> don’t have to do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees 
>> on a web site.
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> -- 
> --FT
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Covid and price of cars

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Rick,
Find me a 5 year old 4wd extended cab pickup truck with no rust and under 
80,000 miles for under $25,000 and I'll give you a $500 finders fee.
Around here if it runs and drives the price is double what it was last year and 
there aren't very many choices.
In 2014 when we were truck shopping I could get a brand new Ford F150 STX 4wd 
extended cab v8 for $28,000. Today that's the price for a 4 year old one, if 
you can find one.

-Curt

On Saturday, February 13, 2021, 7:02:26 PM EST, Rick Hawkins Java 
Letterpress Cycles Photon via Mercedes  wrote:  
 
 Folks

Whether you believe it  or not, the price of ICE powered cars is really going 
to keep falling no one is driving much, they don’t have jobs to go to and I 
think electric cars will be super mainstream so quickly we will be amazed  
look at the price of fax machines!

Our daughter who lives in the Bay Area has, count them, TWO Teslas a model 
S and a 3. The S is leased and about to go back, but daughter owns the 3 so it 
stays. Their third car is a Nice 2001 Lexus/ Rav 4 SUV or whatever It is 
called. Daughter has driven the model 3 about 60k miles and has replaced some 
tires and Tesla just warrantied the 12 volt reg car battery or deep cycle that 
powers accessories or something  

I think she is the norm, maybe a bit of early adopter.

In the last three years or so I have bought a Kia 2008 mini van for $200 (129k 
miles) ... I fixed a few things and have driven it for 3 years About 20k miles 
at the cost of fuel and an idler pulley, a few coil packs and a $50 used 
alternator. Perfect car 

I bought a 2008 Kia accent with 200k like new, clean stick for $350... it took 
8 months to sell for $2500

And I have the 2003 sprinter with lift gate that only cost $2800 with free 
Pennsylvania

I would say I have never seen cars cheaper in terms of real cost, allowing for 
inflation etc

I think these ICE Mercedes cars will be $500 before you know it because no one 
will want them
 
As for Covid, at age 66 Georgia offered me a vaccine which I took, a couple of 
weeks ago (Pfizer) and an appointment next week for the second dose.  I felt 
crappy for at least a week after it ... mostly just tired.

Xx rick

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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I would like to get a whole home backup generator and run it off propane, and 
also run a line out to the shop for the heaters there. Maybe even replace the 
stove/oven with propane instead of electric 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice storm. 
>  I was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the generator 
> running.  That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice to have 
> then but there are costs.  
> 
> I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of a 
> bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but I 
> still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died several 
> times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case to rust. 
>  I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  
> 
> At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
> UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
> battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  
> 
> I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should 
> be good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and 
> would let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to above-ground.  
> 
> Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages 
> didn't justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common 
> previously and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I traveled 
> for work in those days).
> 
> For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do 
> the job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power panel 
> with a mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).  The main 
> drawback of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it fresh. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard
> 
> It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up front 
> cost, though, if you do it right.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one 
>> of these day. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my 
>>> annual fill for the standby generator…
>>> 
>>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
 snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 
 30 minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up 
 having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It 
 would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time 
 you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep 
 firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - it's COLD out there

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 My in-laws had a fridge/freezer they replaced last year that they claim was 
from 1967! They certainly got their value out of that machine.

Apparently the replacement unit has reduced their electricity bill by $30 a 
month.
-Curt

On Saturday, February 13, 2021, 3:43:26 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Same here!

We have an upright Sears freezer that just won’t die. We bought it in 1988 and 
it’s still going strong. Only drawback is that it’s not self defrosting.

I’ve got some coolers ready to go and my heat gun, but it’s in the 70s today 
after some rain passed through and the sun came out, so that will help some.

-D

> On Feb 13, 2021, at 3:37 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Found a good use for the cold temps - defrost the freezer! We keep the
> chest freezed fairly full, and it's needed defrosting for a couple of years
> now. We emptied it into boxes, put the boxes outside (it's warmed up to
> 19°F), used a heat gun to loosen the frost/ice, scooped up the larger
> pieces, used the shop vac to get up the rest. Then it's just a metter
> fo putting everything back in and plugging the freezer back in, and Bob's
> your uncle! Nothing thawed even a little bit.
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Power was out here from about 0700 to noon, probably caused by an ice storm.  I 
was unaware of that until I got to my kitchen and heard the generator running.  
That (15KW Generac) LP-fired standby generator was nice to have then but there 
are costs.  

I think the equipment was about $3500 (in 2005) but the install was part of a 
bigger project so I don't have a number for that.  LP is pretty clean but I 
still do an annual oil and filter change.  The start battery has died several 
times without much warning and battery acid damaged allowed the case to rust.  
I'm using a Battery Minder now, maybe that will help.  

At very light load the output frequency is just over 63 Hz which causes many 
UPS systems to revert to battery power (beep-beep-beep) and deplete the 
battery; APC Smart UPS are more tolerant.  

I have an underground 500 gal LP tank (which only holds 400 gal) that should be 
good for a couple of days.  An above-ground thank would be cheaper and would 
let ne switch LP suppliers; but SWMBO said no to above-ground.  

Overall, I have no complaints but frankly, the few recent power outages didn't 
justify the expense.  However, long power outages were very common previously 
and SWMBO would not be able to manage a manual system (I traveled for work in 
those days).

For short outages, an 8-10 KW (electric start) gasoline generator should do the 
job much cheaper.  The plug-in output cord can be wired to a power panel with a 
mechanical interlock fairly inexpensively (if code allows).  The main drawback 
of this setup, IMO, is storing gasoline and keeping it fresh. 



-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:27 PM
To: Okie Benz 
Cc: Dan Penoff 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up front 
cost, though, if you do it right.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one of 
> these day. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my 
>> annual fill for the standby generator…
>> 
>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
>>> snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30 
>>> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up 
>>> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It 
>>> would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you 
>>> pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood 
>>> around for use in the case of emergency.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Meth or crack, or both?

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Fried synapses due to massive illegal pharmaceuticals ingestion 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2356602567797189/
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[greg via Mercedes]

We've had more snow than I can remember for here, about 12" accumulation.
There are lots of power outages just south of here, freezing rain has
taken down trees. I'm lucky power has not been interrupted here, I should
have an emergency supply of wood for the stove.

Greg in the PNW

> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow
> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30
> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up
> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It
> would
> Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay
> for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood
> around for use in the case of emergency.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I think at the time there were only 1 or 2 ties outside of Texas and that 
wasn’t enough. That changed after that incident I believe. Texas has plenty of 
gas to drive gas turbines but it takes time and maybe there wasn’t enough to 
offset the loss of those wind resources. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> There are ties through the national grid, believe me. However, some of those 
> are little used, which is the problem. The utilities have a spot market for 
> demand, and it’s based on what time of the day and for how much. Middle of 
> the day in the summertime? Oh, yea, spot prices will be wild. But - you can 
> anticipate that demand and buy contracts in advance, so it’s fairly easy to 
> protect yourself.
> 
> It’s when Mother Nature throws a proverbial wrench in the gears where the 
> utilities get bent over. Texas and other areas who have potentially lost a 
> portion of their local generating capacity will have to go to the spot market 
> to buy imported power. That can’t happen instantly, because of demand and the 
> time it takes to bring more power online by the other utilities.
> 
> AZ Bob can pull out some control rods and make more juice fairly quickly and 
> hydro producers can open the sluice gates if there are more generators 
> available, but the coal and gas fired plants can take hours to increase 
> generating capacity, as they’ve got to spool up more turbines, some of which 
> can take many hours to bring online. You’ve got to have the fuel to do it, 
> too, so that’s another factor.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:02 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Some years ago the wind in West Texas just died on New Years Day (I think it 
>> was). It was really cold and power demand was high. All the wind machines 
>> (and there were lots) stopped producing and that was a Big Problem as Texas 
>> was pretty much stand-alone as far as ties into other power grids. So lots 
>> of people were without power on a day when that was unwelcome. Took a long 
>> time to spin up other sources, I don’t recall if there was even enough to 
>> compensate.  I think after that the power companies might have added some 
>> ties to bring in power. 
>> 
>> --R
>> Sent from iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:20 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Texas is facing the possibility of blackouts as power demand ramps up
>>> with the cold weather.
>>> 
>>> Apparently wind farms can't operate in icing conditions. Who knew?
>>> 
>>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-14/deep-freeze-sends-gas-soaring-to-600-over-the-long-u-s-weekend
>>> 
>>> Forecast here is for 6-12 inches of snow over the next day or so. Temps
>>> have been in single digits. Nothing too out of the ordinary, but the
>>> past couple of weeks have been the first "real" winter weather we've had
>>> this winter so far. December/January were mostly just chilly with some
>>> rain.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow
 blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30
 minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up
 having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It
 would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the
 time you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I
 keep firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Wind and Solar power require backup generation for whenever the sun don't shine 
(most of the time) and the wind don't blow (varies).  As far as infrastructure 
is concerned that means "green" power generation doesn't replace other sources 
but is IN ADDITION to traditional sources.  Also, the spin-up time for many of 
those traditional sources (especially coal) is so long the backup power really 
needs to be fired up all the time anyway.  Natural gas is much faster, of 
course, but it still takes time to boil water.  The true green answer is (and 
has been) nuclear or hydro.  Instead of screwing around with monster windmills 
we should have been researching and developing better nuclear facilities (like 
molten salts) and faster (cheaper) ways to build and license them.  Of course 
the arm-chair environmental dilatants consider nuclear power unacceptable.  If 
they are serious they should try living off the grid.  Maybe that should be a 
law no juice for greenies.  So much of this environmental "science" is tripe.  
What is the environmental damage to build and recharge those trendy electric 
cars?   I'll bet my 82 SD comes out pretty well on that balance sheet.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:03 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Buggered Benzmail 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

Some years ago the wind in West Texas just died on New Years Day (I think it 
was). It was really cold and power demand was high. All the wind machines (and 
there were lots) stopped producing and that was a Big Problem as Texas was 
pretty much stand-alone as far as ties into other power grids. So lots of 
people were without power on a day when that was unwelcome. Took a long time to 
spin up other sources, I don’t recall if there was even enough to compensate.  
I think after that the power companies might have added some ties to bring in 
power. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:20 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Texas is facing the possibility of blackouts as power demand ramps up 
> with the cold weather.
> 
> Apparently wind farms can't operate in icing conditions. Who knew?
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-14/deep-freeze-sends-g
> as-soaring-to-600-over-the-long-u-s-weekend
> 
> Forecast here is for 6-12 inches of snow over the next day or so. 
> Temps have been in single digits. Nothing too out of the ordinary, but 
> the past couple of weeks have been the first "real" winter weather 
> we've had this winter so far. December/January were mostly just chilly 
> with some rain.
> 
> Allan
> 
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, 
>> snow blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the 
>> last 30 minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I 
>> may end up having to haul in some firewood and firing up the 
>> fireplace/insert. It would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump 
>> useable but by the time you pay for firewood I don’t think it would 
>> be any cheaper. I keep firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

There are ties through the national grid, believe me. However, some of those 
are little used, which is the problem. The utilities have a spot market for 
demand, and it’s based on what time of the day and for how much. Middle of the 
day in the summertime? Oh, yea, spot prices will be wild. But - you can 
anticipate that demand and buy contracts in advance, so it’s fairly easy to 
protect yourself.

It’s when Mother Nature throws a proverbial wrench in the gears where the 
utilities get bent over. Texas and other areas who have potentially lost a 
portion of their local generating capacity will have to go to the spot market 
to buy imported power. That can’t happen instantly, because of demand and the 
time it takes to bring more power online by the other utilities.

AZ Bob can pull out some control rods and make more juice fairly quickly and 
hydro producers can open the sluice gates if there are more generators 
available, but the coal and gas fired plants can take hours to increase 
generating capacity, as they’ve got to spool up more turbines, some of which 
can take many hours to bring online. You’ve got to have the fuel to do it, too, 
so that’s another factor.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 5:02 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Some years ago the wind in West Texas just died on New Years Day (I think it 
> was). It was really cold and power demand was high. All the wind machines 
> (and there were lots) stopped producing and that was a Big Problem as Texas 
> was pretty much stand-alone as far as ties into other power grids. So lots of 
> people were without power on a day when that was unwelcome. Took a long time 
> to spin up other sources, I don’t recall if there was even enough to 
> compensate.  I think after that the power companies might have added some 
> ties to bring in power. 
> 
> --R
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:20 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Texas is facing the possibility of blackouts as power demand ramps up
>> with the cold weather.
>> 
>> Apparently wind farms can't operate in icing conditions. Who knew?
>> 
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-14/deep-freeze-sends-gas-soaring-to-600-over-the-long-u-s-weekend
>> 
>> Forecast here is for 6-12 inches of snow over the next day or so. Temps
>> have been in single digits. Nothing too out of the ordinary, but the
>> past couple of weeks have been the first "real" winter weather we've had
>> this winter so far. December/January were mostly just chilly with some
>> rain.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow
>>> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30
>>> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up
>>> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It
>>> would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the
>>> time you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I
>>> keep firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Yeah I’ve seen that one. Stupid ask.  A repair is like $250 and 4 hours at most 
in the driveway  

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/daytona-beach-2001-mercedes-benz-320/7272977472.html
> 
> Conductor plate and they want retail for it. Oy.
> 
> -D
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Some years ago the wind in West Texas just died on New Years Day (I think it 
was). It was really cold and power demand was high. All the wind machines (and 
there were lots) stopped producing and that was a Big Problem as Texas was 
pretty much stand-alone as far as ties into other power grids. So lots of 
people were without power on a day when that was unwelcome. Took a long time to 
spin up other sources, I don’t recall if there was even enough to compensate.  
I think after that the power companies might have added some ties to bring in 
power. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:20 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Texas is facing the possibility of blackouts as power demand ramps up
> with the cold weather.
> 
> Apparently wind farms can't operate in icing conditions. Who knew?
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-14/deep-freeze-sends-gas-soaring-to-600-over-the-long-u-s-weekend
> 
> Forecast here is for 6-12 inches of snow over the next day or so. Temps
> have been in single digits. Nothing too out of the ordinary, but the
> past couple of weeks have been the first "real" winter weather we've had
> this winter so far. December/January were mostly just chilly with some
> rain.
> 
> Allan
> 
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow
>> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30
>> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up
>> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It
>> would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the
>> time you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I
>> keep firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yeah, the one they copied off the sales brochure from Mercedes?

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:35 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> But you're paying for the artistic value of the last picture
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Sent: February 14, 2021 3:23 PM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Cc: ka...@striplin.net
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair
> 
> As it sits is about a $1000 car.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

But you're paying for the artistic value of the last picture


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: February 14, 2021 3:23 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: ka...@striplin.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

As it sits is about a $1000 car.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on
> Carvana. One big advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add
> ons” like a dealer does, the slimy “dealer fee”,
> “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.

Carvana and Carmax "no haggle" shopping means you are probably paying
near top-of-market mostly for the convenience factor.

Also I didn't think they really carried much inventory that was over 5
years old. I'd be surprised if you found much selection of 10yo trucks
at Carvana. The vast majority of what I'm seeing here is 2016 or newer.

Allan



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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It does make life far easier and less likely to be interrupted. Big up front 
cost, though, if you do it right.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one of 
> these day. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my annual 
>> fill for the standby generator…
>> 
>> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow 
>>> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30 
>>> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up 
>>> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It would
>>> Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay 
>>> for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood around 
>>> for use in the case of emergency. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Being that we are total electric here, I should get a backup generator one of 
these day. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my annual 
> fill for the standby generator…
> 
> -D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow 
>> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30 
>> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up 
>> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It would
>> Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay 
>> for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood around 
>> for use in the case of emergency. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

As it sits is about a $1000 car. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:02 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/daytona-beach-2001-mercedes-benz-320/7272977472.html
> 
> Conductor plate and they want retail for it. Oy.
> 
> -D
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Texas is facing the possibility of blackouts as power demand ramps up
with the cold weather.

Apparently wind farms can't operate in icing conditions. Who knew?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-14/deep-freeze-sends-gas-soaring-to-600-over-the-long-u-s-weekend

Forecast here is for 6-12 inches of snow over the next day or so. Temps
have been in single digits. Nothing too out of the ordinary, but the
past couple of weeks have been the first "real" winter weather we've had
this winter so far. December/January were mostly just chilly with some
rain.

Allan

Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:

> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow
> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30
> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up
> having to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It
> would Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the
> time you pay for firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I
> keep firewood around for use in the case of emergency.
>

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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That reminds me, it’s about time to check the propane tank for my annual fill 
for the standby generator…

-D shoveling sun and a little bit of rain today in the near 80s



> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow 
> blowing outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30 
> minutes the power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up having 
> to haul in some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It would
> Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay for 
> firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood around for 
> use in the case of emergency. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Bad conductor plate. Common failure, well known, parts are a couple hundred 
bucks a few hours under the car to replace, if that.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> What's triggers "limp mode"?  Low on fluid?  
> 
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 4:02 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/daytona-beach-2001-mercedes-benz-320/7272977472.html
>  
> 
> 
> Conductor plate and they want retail for it. Oy.
> 
> -D
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I would think that EVs would be hardest hit by microchip shortages, but
I guess the reality is that EVs still account for a small minority of
new car production, and also that all new cars are loaded with
microprocessors and integrated circuits.

Allan

OK Don via Mercedes  writes:

> From the news today:
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/here-are-some-of-the-car-models-most-likely-to-be-in-shorter-supply-due-to-the-global-chip-shortage/ar-BB1dFRHk?li=BBnb7Kz
>

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Re: [MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

What's triggers "limp mode"?  Low on fluid?

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 4:02 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/daytona-beach-2001-mercedes-benz-320/7272977472.html
>
> Conductor plate and they want retail for it. Oy.
>
> -D
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[MBZ] Blizzard

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Blizzard is proceeding, temp is 7 outside with wind chill is -10, snow blowing 
outside. Heat pump pretty much runs non stop. Over the last 30 minutes the 
power has been going out off and on. No good. I may end up having to haul in 
some firewood and firing up the fireplace/insert. It would
Most definitely cut down on the heat pump useable but by the time you pay for 
firewood I don’t think it would be any cheaper. I keep firewood around for use 
in the case of emergency. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] Meth or crack, or both?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Both, with a sprinkling of delusion.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 4:02 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2356602567797189/
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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>
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[MBZ] I Want Stupid Money and am Unwilling to Repair

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/daytona-beach-2001-mercedes-benz-320/7272977472.html

Conductor plate and they want retail for it. Oy.

-D
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[MBZ] Meth or crack, or both?

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2356602567797189/


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Sure, why not? I’m always up for a road trip.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 2:16 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> My receptionist (68 year old geezer) sold his 1990ish S10 EL and bought a 
> somewhat loaded looking dark green 4x4 Ranger a couple of years ago. I don't 
> recall the details, I just saw it parked in front of a house with a for sale 
> sign on it, thought 'somebody should buy that, it looks great', and Ed went 
> and bought it a couple of days later.
> 
> Should I ask him if he still has/wants to sell it to Dan?
> It would be in Westphalia MI.
> We gave him the winter off, and he missed us so much he dropped in last 
> Friday.
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes diesel 40 mpg 397 wtq - $6,350 (Charlotte)

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Slasher attack on the front seat.  WTF.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 12:30 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Rebuilt title.  2006 model, not 2003.  Maybe a $3k car.
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
>
> Feb 14, 2021 11:48:52 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes  >:
>
> > wtf
> >
> >
> https://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/d/charlotte-mercedes-diesel-40-mpg-397-wtq/7277137643.html
> >
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Probably gone by now, but if not it would be a good flip candidate. I doubt Dan 
wants anything from the rust belt.


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: February 14, 2021 1:17 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: mi...@mitchellhaley.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

My receptionist (68 year old geezer) sold his 1990ish S10 EL and bought
a somewhat loaded looking dark green 4x4 Ranger a couple of years ago. I
don't recall the details, I just saw it parked in front of a house with
a for sale sign on it, thought 'somebody should buy that, it looks
great', and Ed went and bought it a couple of days later.

Should I ask him if he still has/wants to sell it to Dan?
It would be in Westphalia MI.
We gave him the winter off, and he missed us so much he dropped in last
Friday.

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Re: [MBZ] Happy Birthday!

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Dylan Thomas: "Rage against the dying of the light."

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 11:49 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Wait .I think I finally broke the Geezer code you have to carry an
> AARP card, and be on the waitlist for space in an assisted living
> community.
>
> My answer to the question "How old are you?" is always, "I'm only middle
> age."  The older I get, the more fun it is to give that answer...
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 6:11 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > We went to Peru a few years back on a trek in the back country and I
> tried
> > to explain the concept of “geezer” to our guide.  His English was pretty
> > good but he had never heard that word. I think the idea came up when we
> > were discussing the geezers who rode the bus to Machu Picchu instead of
> > doing the trek. He knew the concept exactly once I explained it a bit and
> > thought it was funny as hell that there was a word for it.
> >
> > He was trying to learn the word but the best he could do in his
> > Quechua/Peruvian espanol accent was “gee-zairr“ with that r-roll at the
> > end. In any case he kept using the word and laughing every time he did.
> He
> > tried to explain it to some of the other crew but they didn’t really get
> it
> > and thought he was kinda whack about it.
> >
> > I enjoyed this little bit off cross-cultural education.
> >
> > Get off my damn lawn!
> >
> > --FT
> > Sent from iPhone
> >
> > > On Feb 14, 2021, at 12:53 AM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah "You know when you are" ... is the qualifier then
> > > Is that momentary, as in, until you forget or do you have to carry
> a
> > > pocket note to remind yourself?
> > >
> > > Asking for a friend, you know..
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:41 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> It's a state of mind, you know if you are one.
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 11:25 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Apparently I slept through the Geezerness Memo [afternoon nap time,
> you
> > >>> know] Would someone please define... or devine ... the criteria to
> > >> qualify
> > >>> for Geezerness?
> > >>>
> > >>> Do I have to drive with my turn signal for 10 miles, or something?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:15 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> > >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Geezerness is a state of mind except at the grocery store on
> Thursdays
> >  when you get an extra 5% discount.
> > 
> >  PRO TIP:  It helps to have a younger woman with whom to consort...
> > 
> >  --FT
> > 
> >  On 2/13/21 8:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> > > Bob’s a geezer. I’m approaching geezerness, but looking forward to
> > >> it.
> > >
> > > Happy belated birthday!
> > >
> > > -D
> > >
> > >> On Feb 13, 2021, at 8:46 AM, Curt Raymond 
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Is it indeed? Happy birthday!
> > >>
> > >> Mine was last week. I can no longer claim I'm in my early 40s...
> > >>
> > >> Curt
> > >>
> > >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <
> > 
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > >>  wrote:
> > >> To AZ Bob!
> > >>
> > >> -D
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ <
> >  http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com <
> >  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >  --
> >  --FT
> > 
> >  ___
> >  http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
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> > 
> >  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> > 
> > >>> ___
> > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>>
> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>>
> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/

Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I will say MMR on most used vehicles these days is going above retail at 
auction. I have heard stories from customers, one in particular, had a later 
model Silverado sitting on the lot they could t sell at 26k for some reason. 
Took it to auction and it sold for 33k. I told him he should take all his used 
there. Of course if they did they would not be able to replace it. With no 
inventory what would they do with their sales people?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 11:56 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Ahh, yes, a nice 1911 is always a good choice. I haven’t looked at the 
> firearms market of late, but I’ve heard it’s a crazy place, no doubt much 
> like the car market.
> 
> ML500 went to Haiti. Long story. Suffice to say I made money on the deal.
> 
> I can wait, I’m not under any pressure. I was just caught off guard by the 
> state of the market. I knew there was demand with the stimulus checks, but I 
> had no idea how bad it was. I suspect it will get worse before it gets 
> better, since tax return time is coming as well.
> 
> What I found stunning was that some big, high volume Ford dealers here don’t 
> have squat, even in new inventory. Kaleb pretty much spelled it out, but 
> still, I was amazed as these are dealers that have literally hundreds of 
> vehicles on their lot at any given time. Brandon Ford, one of the highest 
> volume dealers in the southeast, has almost nothing new or used.
> 
> Guess I’ll stay on the sidelines for now. Not a big deal, the S320 wagon and 
> SL500 are chugging away doing yeoman’s work without complaint or issues. And 
> I have no car payments, too.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> These things don’t seem to last long. I’m truly >amazed that if things are 
>>> so bad for so many >people why there is such a big market for used >trucks
>> 
>> Sounds like "car fever". I get it. I have "Kimber fever" right now. After a 
>> year of being told "no", the consumer market is bursting with pent-up demand.
>> 
>> As I responded to Craig's post about a used ML, things are tight in the car 
>> market. There is a semiconductor shortage, so automakers have had to scale 
>> back production of new cars and trucks. That makes used trucks more in 
>> demand. Then there's the promise of some sort of stimulus check (down 
>> payment at buy here, pay here) and even the prospect of Universal Basic 
>> Income. It's a bubble, and it will pop. Stay on the sidelines until you find 
>> your deal. Do you still have the ML? I'd buy a utility trailer for now. It 
>> seems very few people understand the value of a small 5'*9' trailer.
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

My receptionist (68 year old geezer) sold his 1990ish S10 EL and bought 
a somewhat loaded looking dark green 4x4 Ranger a couple of years ago. I 
don't recall the details, I just saw it parked in front of a house with 
a for sale sign on it, thought 'somebody should buy that, it looks 
great', and Ed went and bought it a couple of days later.


Should I ask him if he still has/wants to sell it to Dan?
It would be in Westphalia MI.
We gave him the winter off, and he missed us so much he dropped in last 
Friday.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[OK Don via Mercedes]

From the news today:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/here-are-some-of-the-car-models-most-likely-to-be-in-shorter-supply-due-to-the-global-chip-shortage/ar-BB1dFRHk?li=BBnb7Kz

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 11:56 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> I can wait, I’m not under any pressure. I was just caught off guard by the
> state of the market. I knew there was demand with the stimulus checks, but
> I had no idea how bad it was. I suspect it will get worse before it gets
> better, since tax return time is coming as well.
>
> What I found stunning was that some big, high volume Ford dealers here
> don’t have squat, even in new inventory. Kaleb pretty much spelled it out,
> but still, I was amazed as these are dealers that have literally hundreds
> of vehicles on their lot at any given time. Brandon Ford, one of the
> highest volume dealers in the southeast, has almost nothing new or used.
>
> Guess I’ll stay on the sidelines for now. Not a big deal, the S320 wagon
> and SL500 are chugging away doing yeoman’s work without complaint or
> issues. And I have no car payments, too.
>
> -D
>
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Too bad all the rental companies were dumping cars last summer, they'd 
sell them easily today.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Ahh, yes, a nice 1911 is always a good choice. I haven’t looked at the firearms 
market of late, but I’ve heard it’s a crazy place, no doubt much like the car 
market.

ML500 went to Haiti. Long story. Suffice to say I made money on the deal.

I can wait, I’m not under any pressure. I was just caught off guard by the 
state of the market. I knew there was demand with the stimulus checks, but I 
had no idea how bad it was. I suspect it will get worse before it gets better, 
since tax return time is coming as well.

What I found stunning was that some big, high volume Ford dealers here don’t 
have squat, even in new inventory. Kaleb pretty much spelled it out, but still, 
I was amazed as these are dealers that have literally hundreds of vehicles on 
their lot at any given time. Brandon Ford, one of the highest volume dealers in 
the southeast, has almost nothing new or used.

Guess I’ll stay on the sidelines for now. Not a big deal, the S320 wagon and 
SL500 are chugging away doing yeoman’s work without complaint or issues. And I 
have no car payments, too.

-D


> On Feb 14, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>> These things don’t seem to last long. I’m truly >amazed that if things are 
>> so bad for so many >people why there is such a big market for used >trucks
> 
> Sounds like "car fever". I get it. I have "Kimber fever" right now. After a 
> year of being told "no", the consumer market is bursting with pent-up demand.
> 
> As I responded to Craig's post about a used ML, things are tight in the car 
> market. There is a semiconductor shortage, so automakers have had to scale 
> back production of new cars and trucks. That makes used trucks more in 
> demand. Then there's the promise of some sort of stimulus check (down payment 
> at buy here, pay here) and even the prospect of Universal Basic Income. It's 
> a bubble, and it will pop. Stay on the sidelines until you find your deal. Do 
> you still have the ML? I'd buy a utility trailer for now. It seems very few 
> people understand the value of a small 5'*9' trailer.
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes diesel 40 mpg 397 wtq - $6,350 (Charlotte)

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Rebuilt title.  2006 model, not 2003.  Maybe a $3k car.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


Feb 14, 2021 11:48:52 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes :

> wtf
> 
> https://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/d/charlotte-mercedes-diesel-40-mpg-397-wtq/7277137643.html
> 
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

This is from over a month ago. There will be electronics shortages too.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-bb12adb6106019a618440d85fd91f77e


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: February 14, 2021 11:10 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: d...@penoff.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

I understand about the government payments and car buying, but I wasn’t aware 
of shortages. Sounds like I need to wait, which is just fine with me. I really 
need to get this E420 W124 out of the garage and on to another home right now. 
Once that’s done I’ll be more motivated to do something about a small truck.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I understand about the government payments and car buying, but I wasn’t aware 
of shortages. Sounds like I need to wait, which is just fine with me. I really 
need to get this E420 W124 out of the garage and on to another home right now. 
Once that’s done I’ll be more motivated to do something about a small truck.

I’ve had a boatload of overseas buyers (nearly all German) interested in the 
E420, but they all try to run me down on the price. The thing that seems to 
turn them off is lack of service records. I’ve got the VMI on it but it’s not 
that great, so that doesn’t appear to impress them. They don’t seem to care 
about the paint.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The reason the prices are so high on used is because there is very little new 
> inventory available. I have stores that usually have a hundred trucks in 
> stock that have none at all, or maybe 5-6 if they are lucky. I don’t think 
> FCA is so bad but Ford and GM are. With GM they were shut down due to strike, 
> then when that was over the China virus happened. As far as why there is 
> demand, it’s due to all the free government moments out there floating 
> around. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:44 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> It appears that the delivery thing is extra, although there’s no charge for 
>> it. There is one of their places close to me, so I guess I could go look at 
>> something if they had it.
>> 
>> I’ve been looking at Ford Rangers and everything they’ve had is “pending”. 
>> Seems like the local dealers don’t have squat, or they’re turning them over 
>> so quickly they aren’t putting them on their web sites.
>> 
>> A nice 2010 Ford Ranger with under 100k and the extended (not crew) cab 
>> seems to command around $13k-$15k. If a dealer gets involved there’s easily 
>> another $1000 for their @$#&% “fees”, something I’m trying to avoid.
>> 
>> I’m not ready to pull the trigger just yet, but I’m trying to do some due 
>> diligence so when I do I’m ready to act quickly, These things don’t seem to 
>> last long. I’m truly amazed that if things are so bad for so many people why 
>> there is such a big market for used trucks - especially when the difference 
>> between new and used is pretty minimal as you get to later models.
>> 
>> For what it’s worth, if anyone knows of something like this, let me know - 
>> I’ll travel for the right deal.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This girl I know looked at a coupla cars, they brought them to her place on 
>>> a flatbed and could do the deal right there, give a trade-in credit 
>>> (essentially buy your old car for a specified price) and haul off the old 
>>> car.  Sort of a mobile Carmax. She ended up not buying either one, whoever 
>>> showed up didn't care one way or the other.  She liked the process. 
>>> Interesting concept.  They must have lots scattered around where they keep 
>>> the cars then haul them around as needed.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> 
 On 2/14/21 11:16 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One 
 big advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer 
 does, the slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.
 
 Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
 them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often 
 charge more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you 
 don’t have to do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees 
 on a web site.
 
 -D
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>>> -- 
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>These things don’t seem to last long. I’m truly >amazed that if things are so 
>bad for so many >people why there is such a big market for used >trucks

Sounds like "car fever". I get it. I have "Kimber fever" right now. After a 
year of being told "no", the consumer market is bursting with pent-up demand.

As I responded to Craig's post about a used ML, things are tight in the car 
market. There is a semiconductor shortage, so automakers have had to scale back 
production of new cars and trucks. That makes used trucks more in demand. Then 
there's the promise of some sort of stimulus check (down payment at buy here, 
pay here) and even the prospect of Universal Basic Income. It's a bubble, and 
it will pop. Stay on the sidelines until you find your deal. Do you still have 
the ML? I'd buy a utility trailer for now. It seems very few people understand 
the value of a small 5'*9' trailer.


Rick
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[MBZ] crackish 2002 Mercedes E320 82k miles Florida car , runs great last of the w210 - $4, 750 (Jacksonville)

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/jacksonville-2002-mercedes-e320-82k/7277156164.html

--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

The reason the prices are so high on used is because there is very little new 
inventory available. I have stores that usually have a hundred trucks in stock 
that have none at all, or maybe 5-6 if they are lucky. I don’t think FCA is so 
bad but Ford and GM are. With GM they were shut down due to strike, then when 
that was over the China virus happened. As far as why there is demand, it’s due 
to all the free government moments out there floating around. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:44 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> It appears that the delivery thing is extra, although there’s no charge for 
> it. There is one of their places close to me, so I guess I could go look at 
> something if they had it.
> 
> I’ve been looking at Ford Rangers and everything they’ve had is “pending”. 
> Seems like the local dealers don’t have squat, or they’re turning them over 
> so quickly they aren’t putting them on their web sites.
> 
> A nice 2010 Ford Ranger with under 100k and the extended (not crew) cab seems 
> to command around $13k-$15k. If a dealer gets involved there’s easily another 
> $1000 for their @$#&% “fees”, something I’m trying to avoid.
> 
> I’m not ready to pull the trigger just yet, but I’m trying to do some due 
> diligence so when I do I’m ready to act quickly, These things don’t seem to 
> last long. I’m truly amazed that if things are so bad for so many people why 
> there is such a big market for used trucks - especially when the difference 
> between new and used is pretty minimal as you get to later models.
> 
> For what it’s worth, if anyone knows of something like this, let me know - 
> I’ll travel for the right deal.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> This girl I know looked at a coupla cars, they brought them to her place on 
>> a flatbed and could do the deal right there, give a trade-in credit 
>> (essentially buy your old car for a specified price) and haul off the old 
>> car.  Sort of a mobile Carmax. She ended up not buying either one, whoever 
>> showed up didn't care one way or the other.  She liked the process. 
>> Interesting concept.  They must have lots scattered around where they keep 
>> the cars then haul them around as needed.
>> 
>> --FT
>> 
>>> On 2/14/21 11:16 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One big 
>>> advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer does, 
>>> the slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.
>>> 
>>> Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
>>> them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often 
>>> charge more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you 
>>> don’t have to do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees 
>>> on a web site.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> -- 
>> --FT
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Happy Birthday!

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Wait .I think I finally broke the Geezer code you have to carry an
AARP card, and be on the waitlist for space in an assisted living community.

My answer to the question "How old are you?" is always, "I'm only middle
age."  The older I get, the more fun it is to give that answer...

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 6:11 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We went to Peru a few years back on a trek in the back country and I tried
> to explain the concept of “geezer” to our guide.  His English was pretty
> good but he had never heard that word. I think the idea came up when we
> were discussing the geezers who rode the bus to Machu Picchu instead of
> doing the trek. He knew the concept exactly once I explained it a bit and
> thought it was funny as hell that there was a word for it.
>
> He was trying to learn the word but the best he could do in his
> Quechua/Peruvian espanol accent was “gee-zairr“ with that r-roll at the
> end. In any case he kept using the word and laughing every time he did. He
> tried to explain it to some of the other crew but they didn’t really get it
> and thought he was kinda whack about it.
>
> I enjoyed this little bit off cross-cultural education.
>
> Get off my damn lawn!
>
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
>
> > On Feb 14, 2021, at 12:53 AM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ah "You know when you are" ... is the qualifier then
> > Is that momentary, as in, until you forget or do you have to carry a
> > pocket note to remind yourself?
> >
> > Asking for a friend, you know..
> >
> >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:41 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> It's a state of mind, you know if you are one.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 11:25 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Apparently I slept through the Geezerness Memo [afternoon nap time, you
> >>> know] Would someone please define... or devine ... the criteria to
> >> qualify
> >>> for Geezerness?
> >>>
> >>> Do I have to drive with my turn signal for 10 miles, or something?
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:15 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  Geezerness is a state of mind except at the grocery store on Thursdays
>  when you get an extra 5% discount.
> 
>  PRO TIP:  It helps to have a younger woman with whom to consort...
> 
>  --FT
> 
>  On 2/13/21 8:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> > Bob’s a geezer. I’m approaching geezerness, but looking forward to
> >> it.
> >
> > Happy belated birthday!
> >
> > -D
> >
> >> On Feb 13, 2021, at 8:46 AM, Curt Raymond 
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Is it indeed? Happy birthday!
> >>
> >> Mine was last week. I can no longer claim I'm in my early 40s...
> >>
> >> Curt
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <
> 
> >>>
> >>
> https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
> >
> >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >> To AZ Bob!
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ <
>  http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com <
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>  --
>  --FT
> 
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> OK Don
> >>
> >> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> >> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >>
> >> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> >> Wernher
> >> Von Braun
> >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> >> __

[MBZ] Mercedes diesel 40 mpg 397 wtq - $6,350 (Charlotte)

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

wtf

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/d/charlotte-mercedes-diesel-40-mpg-397-wtq/7277137643.html

--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

That’s the whole deal with Carvana and Carmax, no pressure and upfront pricing. 
As far as add ons, not sure about Carvana but I bought a GL at Carmax several 
years ago and they still charged doc fees just like any dealer. They also 
offered aftermarket warranties for add on costs as well. 

I think with carvana they have some sort of deal were if you don’t like it you 
can return it within a certain amount of time for a full refund. It’s baciallj 
supposed to be just like shopping for a TV or something. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One big 
> advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer does, 
> the slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.
> 
> Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
> them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often 
> charge more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you don’t 
> have to do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees on a web 
> site.
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It appears that the delivery thing is extra, although there’s no charge for it. 
There is one of their places close to me, so I guess I could go look at 
something if they had it.

I’ve been looking at Ford Rangers and everything they’ve had is “pending”. 
Seems like the local dealers don’t have squat, or they’re turning them over so 
quickly they aren’t putting them on their web sites.

A nice 2010 Ford Ranger with under 100k and the extended (not crew) cab seems 
to command around $13k-$15k. If a dealer gets involved there’s easily another 
$1000 for their @$#&% “fees”, something I’m trying to avoid.

I’m not ready to pull the trigger just yet, but I’m trying to do some due 
diligence so when I do I’m ready to act quickly, These things don’t seem to 
last long. I’m truly amazed that if things are so bad for so many people why 
there is such a big market for used trucks - especially when the difference 
between new and used is pretty minimal as you get to later models.

For what it’s worth, if anyone knows of something like this, let me know - I’ll 
travel for the right deal.

-D

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> This girl I know looked at a coupla cars, they brought them to her place on a 
> flatbed and could do the deal right there, give a trade-in credit 
> (essentially buy your old car for a specified price) and haul off the old 
> car.  Sort of a mobile Carmax. She ended up not buying either one, whoever 
> showed up didn't care one way or the other.  She liked the process. 
> Interesting concept.  They must have lots scattered around where they keep 
> the cars then haul them around as needed.
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 2/14/21 11:16 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One big 
>> advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer does, 
>> the slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.
>> 
>> Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
>> them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often 
>> charge more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you 
>> don’t have to do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees 
>> on a web site.
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

This girl I know looked at a coupla cars, they brought them to her place 
on a flatbed and could do the deal right there, give a trade-in credit 
(essentially buy your old car for a specified price) and haul off the 
old car.  Sort of a mobile Carmax. She ended up not buying either one, 
whoever showed up didn't care one way or the other.  She liked the 
process. Interesting concept.  They must have lots scattered around 
where they keep the cars then haul them around as needed.


--FT

On 2/14/21 11:16 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One big 
advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer does, the 
slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.

Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often charge 
more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you don’t have to 
do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees on a web site.

-D
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--
--FT

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[MBZ] OT - Carvana & Others

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

As I look at potential trucks, I see a lot of nice ones on Carvana. One big 
advantage of them is the fact that there’s no “add ons” like a dealer does, the 
slimy “dealer fee”, “paperwork/transaction fees”. etc., etc.

Kaleb - you’re familiar with these places - do you have any thoughts about 
them? I realize they just cover the costs up front and as a result often charge 
more than dealers, but it makes it a lot easier to shop when you don’t have to 
do the mental math or go digging around for the list of fees on a web site.

-D
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Re: [MBZ] Happy Birthday!

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

We went to Peru a few years back on a trek in the back country and I tried to 
explain the concept of “geezer” to our guide.  His English was pretty good but 
he had never heard that word. I think the idea came up when we were discussing 
the geezers who rode the bus to Machu Picchu instead of doing the trek. He knew 
the concept exactly once I explained it a bit and thought it was funny as hell 
that there was a word for it. 

He was trying to learn the word but the best he could do in his 
Quechua/Peruvian espanol accent was “gee-zairr“ with that r-roll at the end. In 
any case he kept using the word and laughing every time he did. He tried to 
explain it to some of the other crew but they didn’t really get it and thought 
he was kinda whack about it.

I enjoyed this little bit off cross-cultural education. 

Get off my damn lawn!

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 12:53 AM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Ah "You know when you are" ... is the qualifier then
> Is that momentary, as in, until you forget or do you have to carry a
> pocket note to remind yourself?
> 
> Asking for a friend, you know..
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:41 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It's a state of mind, you know if you are one.
>> 
>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 11:25 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Apparently I slept through the Geezerness Memo [afternoon nap time, you
>>> know] Would someone please define... or devine ... the criteria to
>> qualify
>>> for Geezerness?
>>> 
>>> Do I have to drive with my turn signal for 10 miles, or something?
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:15 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Geezerness is a state of mind except at the grocery store on Thursdays
 when you get an extra 5% discount.
 
 PRO TIP:  It helps to have a younger woman with whom to consort...
 
 --FT
 
 On 2/13/21 8:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> Bob’s a geezer. I’m approaching geezerness, but looking forward to
>> it.
> 
> Happy belated birthday!
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2021, at 8:46 AM, Curt Raymond 
>>> wrote:
>> 
>> Is it indeed? Happy birthday!
>> 
>> Mine was last week. I can no longer claim I'm in my early 40s...
>> 
>> Curt
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <
 
>>> 
>> https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> To AZ Bob!
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ <
 http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com <
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 --
 --FT
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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