[OSM-talk-ie] Spam
Hi, I've received spam via the internal OSM messaging system (NOT this mailing list) How do I report this? Colm --- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
2015-05-29 0:50 GMT+03:00 SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk: On 28/05/2015 22:27, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: You can argue against machine-made non-reviewed translitterations, because they don't add anything that a data consumer couldn't and because they likely contain mistakes. But that's apparenlty not the case of the name:ru changeset that got reverted. The source of the names in the reverted changeset is described in the changeset discussion http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30451655 : to find russian names for places, I googled for English place names plus достопримечательности, погода or some other russian word. Looks like you completely miss the point I'm native Russian speaker who also speaks English a little bit. I know how a russian would call that place the minute I see it. Googling is a way to cross-check if my guess is valid - the corner case about Slough was given a couple of letters above. Some places with unusual pronounciation got their name:ru 5 years ago - why weren't these reverted since then? http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/21280555/history Some live happily with name:he, name:lt and even name:ja, but name:ru was removed from them repeatedly: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10021976/history I'm sorry to ask - isn't japanese tag there a transcription to hieroglyphs? When I ask google translate to pronounce it, I hear what I would write in cyrillic as Лестаар. So, why was it kept? I also see links to Name page referring IRC discussions. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Namesdiff=nextoldid=976484 While IRC discussions may be good for intra-cultural things, it's better to discuss such large topics on mailing lists, and at least not revert such data silently. -- Darafei Komяpa Praliaskouski OSM BY Team - http://openstreetmap.by/ xmpp:m...@komzpa.net mailto:m...@komzpa.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Dave Corley davecor...@gmail.com wrote: On the first point, why not? There are maps of the world in English, French, German etc etc. I see no logical reason to object to certain languages being used in the name tag. That is the whole point of the flexibility of that tag. The scale of usage is null and void. Either its acceptable everywhere or its acceptable nowhere. Anything in between is entirely subjective and completely unfair. On the second point, since when do we care about the motivation about why certain data gets added. If someone wants to add 3d tagging to utilise in a 3d map they are creating, do we nitpick about that? If Scout adds speed limits to make their app more effective, do we complain? Lastly, and I think this is important point. To quote the wiki header . the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the world. Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries, people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted on a universal basis or its not. If its not, then that's an entirely different conversation. +1 -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Reporting routing problems
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl wrote: Yes, I did it. But it means it's another complexity to consider when reporting problems with their engine. I don't know how open.mapquest.org routing service is different (in terms of routing code) from what we have on OSM website, but that should be done automatically if they're not the same. Anyway, that's really tech2tech kind of problem. As stated earlier, routing engines are simply doing the math. Certainly there are routing issues, but I suspect that most routing problems will come back to OSM data. If we report all problems to the router and it is our problem, how does it get back to OSM to fix? If OSM editors determine that the problem isn't with our data, there needs to be a feedback mechanism to the OP so they can decide if they want to report it to the routing provider. Notes provides that feedback as long as the poster was logged in. -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-at] Straßenbahnen
Am 2015-05-28 um 11:19 schrieb Stephan Bösch-Plepelits: Das ist ein persönlicher Stil von Andy Allan - wiedermal Closed Source :-/. Bugreports wohl wiedermal nur an ihn persönlich. Hab ich bei der SOTM-EU letztes Jahr gemacht - er hat irgendwie nur ausweichend geantwortet, dass die Transport Map nur sein Testfeld ist und er keine Pläne hat das zu machen. Sowas dachte ich mir schon. Ich muss mich endlich hinsetzen und meine Pläne für eine Transport Map umsetzen. Wenn der neue OpenStreetBrowser fertig ist ;-) Ich habe bereits angefangen, weil ich mir dachte, mich nur über die Gesamtsituation zu beschweren ist zu einfach. :) Es gibt aber noch nichts herzuzeigen. Falls ich es schaffe fertig zu werden, dann soll der Stil definitiv frei werden. nebulon42 ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Hi, On 05/28/2015 09:56 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote: What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. Where do you draw the limit? Does that mean you agree there should be a limit, or would you allow each and every of the several thousand languages on the planet to add their name tag to the London node? How would disputes be handled? name:en is on thousands of nodes but in many of these places it is not an official or even a minority language but an extra language. Yes, I've thought about that; name:en is very useful for me but ultimately, if the locals don't use it, then it isn't on the ground, and then it shouldn't be in OSM really. Should languages with over 1 billion (native and non-native) speakers be allowed to put name:xx all over the world. 500m? 10m? 10 thousand? I don't think any size gives one the right to cultural imperialism; let the locals decide what names *they* think they have and that's it. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
+1 to Dave. OSM is universal, full stop. On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Dave Corley davecor...@gmail.com wrote: I am honestly stunned this thread has gone on for as long as it has. In regards to On 05/28/2015 09:19 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. *Especially* if their reasoning was that this makes it nicer for them to run a tank through these places in their own-language war simulation with their buddies. On the first point, why not? There are maps of the world in English, French, German etc etc. I see no logical reason to object to certain languages being used in the name tag. That is the whole point of the flexibility of that tag. The scale of usage is null and void. Either its acceptable everywhere or its acceptable nowhere. Anything in between is entirely subjective and completely unfair. On the second point, since when do we care about the motivation about why certain data gets added. If someone wants to add 3d tagging to utilise in a 3d map they are creating, do we nitpick about that? If Scout adds speed limits to make their app more effective, do we complain? Lastly, and I think this is important point. To quote the wiki header . the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the world. Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries, people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted on a universal basis or its not. If its not, then that's an entirely different conversation. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28 May 2015 at 11:09, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-05-28 11:41 GMT+02:00 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: But let's not get sidetracked, that's a different discussion from the Wikidata question. I just hope that Wikidata doesn't list New Brige as the English name of Pont Neuf or else they have a problem ;) actually they do for Spanish and Catalan: www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q335277 I guess they do have a problem now? Or perhaps that's what people speaking those languages actually call the bridge? Another issue that can be seen here: nobody will want this Puente Nuevo (París) as a label for a bridge on a map (París) Seen where? Every single entity in wikidata I have looked at had some issues in one or the other way, Either your sampling is flawed or you're exaggerating. if you open up this can of worms for names, there will soon be the desire to extend the concept This is not a can of worms; but Wikidata does offer far more than names. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28/05/2015, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q84 You can see its names in various languages by clicking the Labels list tab (then note slidebar) Call me stupid, but I don't see any clickable label list tab ? Sorry; you won't see it if you're not logged in. Ah, I thought for a moment that I'd need to create an account and log in, but then I saw that anonymous edits were accepted, so I assumed that I could see everything that was to be seen. Then I saw the translations in the json output that somebody linked, and wondered again if I was blind when reading the renderd html. You'd need to log in and enable this gadget: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tools/Gadgets#LabelLister I'll ask if there's a method for non-logged-in users to see them. Please do. I'm really surprised that translations aren't visible like every other properties. Is there a technical or editorial reason ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Am 28.05.2015 um 22:20 schrieb Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Yes, I've thought about that; name:en is very useful for me but ultimately, if the locals don't use it, then it isn't on the ground, and then it shouldn't be in OSM really. are we really insisting in locals, or can a traveller be on the ground as well? This traveller could communicate with other travelers... cheers Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28/05/2015, Andrew Guertin andrew.guer...@uvm.edu wrote: Considering the existence of the former Soviet Union, and especially that there are areas of Ukraine where both Russian and Ukrainian are spoken and most roads, places, etc have names (and thus tags) in both languages, this number of 582,653 name:ru tags is hard to interpret. My skill with overpass-turbo isn't the best, but I was able to relatively easily limit a search to a bounding box around North and South America. Within that box, a search returned 2648 nodes and 909 ways with name:ru (relations timed out). Taginfo offers a quick way to view this: http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=name http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/name%3Aen#map http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/name%3Aru#map http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/int_name#map http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/name%3Aja#map http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/name%3Ade#map http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/name%3Afr#map http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/name%3Aar#map ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SeFaireConnaitre :(
Bien vu pour le recalage, la position est assez bonne du coup. Mais c'est en fait un doublon puisque le POI était déjà présent dans osm. Je vais fusionner pour conserver toutes les infos. Le 28 mai 2015 21:06, Stéphane Péneau stephane.pen...@wanadoo.fr a écrit : J'en ai vu aussi, mais il y a du mieux. Leur procédure reste bizarre : Un point à un mauvais emplacement est créé (milieu de la route) Puis, dans un autre changeset, il est recalé. C'est le cas de ton exemple, reste à voir si sa position actuelle est la bonne. Stf Le 28/05/2015 19:25, Pierre-Yves Berrard a écrit : Recrudescence de création de points mal placés de manière automatique par l'utilisateur SeFaireConnaitre. Un exemple (parmi beaucoup) : https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31523303 Ce contributeur (une agence de com) semble ignorer les remarques qu'on lui a fait à ce sujet... https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2014-November/073250.html ___ Talk-fr mailing listTalk-fr@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Þann 28.5.2015 19:43, skrifaði Frederik Ramm: Hi, On 05/28/2015 09:19 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. *Especially* if their reasoning was that this makes it nicer for them to run a tank through these places in their own-language war simulation with their buddies. Disclaimer, I own some of the tanks that might run through some of the places. As any consumer I've been critical of their work and loved and hated it with equal passion, depending on what they did in the last patch release. Having said that the one nice thing about open projects is the added value people put into them and get out of them for a myriad of reasons. A gaming company adding information (yes it is information) to the map can be beneficial to another consumer, for example a Russian style TripAdvisor or something completely different. Is a gaming company not worthy of adding information? Again a matter of where do you draw the line. They are not inventing new towns or places, they are not creating battlefields. Do we now require each contributor to disclose the reason for why they are adding information to the map? This revert and discussions about it should not become too specific to the contributor whose work was reverted. These edits and reverts point at a vital issue as we try to grow the map in areas where hundreds of languages suddenly eye the ability to get maps in their own languages using the OSM data and tools that exist for it. I propose the OSMF tackle these two questions, who should be able to add information to the map and what do we do about languages and where are the limits. --Jói / Stalfur ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Robert Kaiser ka...@kairo.at wrote: Also, I really, really hope my access point will not get into any really open-to-everyone database because I don't want people to follow me around by database request when I'm moving somewhere and don't want to be easily found. So, there's industry standard way to do this, add _nomap to your SSID. Or just don't broadcast SSID whatsoever. And BTW, you can possibly be already listed on WiGLE :-P As the saying goes, wadriving is not a crime. If you transmit anything into the public air, and people receive that just as intended (that is no packet sniffing). you can't legally do anything about it. _nomap is provided out of courtesy. Michał ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On Thu, 2015-05-28 at 22:20 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Yes, I've thought about that; name:en is very useful for me but ultimately, if the locals don't use it, then it isn't on the ground, and then it shouldn't be in OSM really. Absolutely agree, there is a tendency to have name for places that really don't need it. As a traveller I would far rather maps show what I am going to see on the ground, or a roadsign than some made up name. A German city, I think it was Würzburg, was in the news last year. It is a name I am familiar with, however the BBC news report had dug up an English spelling I was totally unaware existed. Many are just plain silly, why does English put an 's' on the end of Lyon and Marseille. Berlin does not need a name;en tag. Phil (trigpoint) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
You're correct, it is a bit screwed up http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=287245 http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeRelation?relationId=287245_noCache=on History should be listed here: http://osm.virtuelle-loipe.de/history/ Dave F. On 28/05/2015 20:12, Colin Smale wrote: Hi everyone, The boundary relation for Snowdonia National Park is severely messed up at the moment. Is there anyone who can sort this out? I don't mind doing the editing but I kind of resent fixing somebody else's damage and I haven't got a source for the boundary vectors. The latest editor of the relation is SK53 but he is a respected, experienced mapper and I don't believe he would do this. Querying the history on the website just times out so I can't easily see when it went pear-shaped and how it used to be http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 Cheers, Colin ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Reporting routing problems
On 5/28/2015 11:25 AM, Daniel Koć wrote: With MapQuest it was much harder to find how can I report another bug. Finally I have found Residential Map or Route Errors link on Support page ( https://support.mapquest.com/hc/en-us - looks like the link itself is dynamic, because it has issue number included). Help service was as quick as in OSRM, but they said MapQuest currently support is only active for USA and Canada and while they hope international routing will be also supported, they can only recommend me Open MapQuest with OSM data. =} After I said that I originally came from OSM itself, the help line operator said that he will share this with our routing team but please note that we are not actively supporting international routing right now so I unfortunately can't make any promises as to when we might get to this. Maybe our technical team should talk with theirs to make better feedback channel available? I would suggest reproducing the issue on open.mapquest.com and providing a link to that route when reporting. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28 May 2015 at 10:59, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote: There might be a case for adding pronunciations (of 'difficult' names at least) to the OSM database. Someone must have proposed a tagging scheme for this, surely? Yes; wikidata= Wikidata will have both IPA [1] phonetic guides to pronunciation, and in some cases links to audio files. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English - as used in Wikipedias. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28/05/2015 22:27, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: You can argue against machine-made non-reviewed translitterations, because they don't add anything that a data consumer couldn't and because they likely contain mistakes. But that's apparenlty not the case of the name:ru changeset that got reverted. The source of the names in the reverted changeset is described in the changeset discussion http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30451655 : to find russian names for places, I googled for English place names plus достопримечательности, погода or some other russian word. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 05/28/2015 03:43 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: *Especially* if their reasoning was that this makes it nicer for them to run a tank through these places in their own-language war simulation with their buddies. If the data is valid, it doesn't matter what the use case is. I'm HAPPY knowing that people are using the data I contribute in all sorts of ways and contributing back so I can use theirs. --Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Þann 28.5.2015 19:19, skrifaði Frederik Ramm: What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. Bye Frederik Where do you draw the limit? name:en is on thousands of nodes but in many of these places it is not an official or even a minority language but an extra language. Should languages with over 1 billion (native and non-native) speakers be allowed to put name:xx all over the world. 500m? 10m? 10 thousand? --Jói / Stalfur ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
I am honestly stunned this thread has gone on for as long as it has. In regards to On 05/28/2015 09:19 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. *Especially* if their reasoning was that this makes it nicer for them to run a tank through these places in their own-language war simulation with their buddies. On the first point, why not? There are maps of the world in English, French, German etc etc. I see no logical reason to object to certain languages being used in the name tag. That is the whole point of the flexibility of that tag. The scale of usage is null and void. Either its acceptable everywhere or its acceptable nowhere. Anything in between is entirely subjective and completely unfair. On the second point, since when do we care about the motivation about why certain data gets added. If someone wants to add 3d tagging to utilise in a 3d map they are creating, do we nitpick about that? If Scout adds speed limits to make their app more effective, do we complain? Lastly, and I think this is important point. To quote the wiki header . the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the world. Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries, people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted on a universal basis or its not. If its not, then that's an entirely different conversation. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Autocariste, dépôt de bus, de train
Le 28 mai 2015 11:49, Romain MEHUT romain.me...@gmail.com a écrit : A mon sens il parlait des noms donnés pour décrire quelque chose sans rapport avec un quelconque nom identifiable sur le terrain. Si cimetière municipal est bien le nom inscrit, alors oui il a tout à fait sa place pour le tag name. S'il y a marqué Poubelle sur une poubelle il faut lui donner un nom sur OSM ? Pour l'exemple du cimetière, le nom est en effet probablement affiché, surement dû au fait qu'il est difficile de déterminer ce qui est à l'intérieur des murs les entourant en général (en tout cas sans connaître le lieu au préalable). Si le nom permet de distinguer ce cimetière par rapport aux autres cimetières, alors oui il est intéressant de le mentionner. Cimetière municipal ne semble pas du tout être unique, et ajouter le nom de la ville également puisque sa position géographique à l'intérieur d'une limite administrative permet de l'obtenir. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Intégration des données de PSS dans OSM
Le 1 mai 2015 21:14, Vincent Frison vincent.fri...@gmail.com a écrit : Merci pour vos réponses, notamment Philippe pour ton mail très instructif. Et donc s'il faut résumer cette licence BY-NC-ND empêche toute extraction de donnée vers OSM, c'est vraiment dommage. Je vais quand même essayer de leur demander si une autorisation spéciale pour OSM serait envisageable, sait on jamais... Bon à priori ça devrait pouvoir se faire, ils m'ont même donné un export de leur base en XML ! :) L'export contient : - la hauteur de l'immeuble - l'URL vers la fiche de l'immeuble sur leur site - et évidemment les coordonnées Le fichier contient 43 188 bâtiments et non pas 47 636 comme indiqué sur leur site car ils ont déjà filtré les bâtiments qui sont en projet ou détruit (ça tombe bien car ils ne nous intéressent pas). Maintenant il faudrait que je leur fournisse un document autorisant explicitement l'import de ces données dans OSM puis qu'ils le signent. Si quelqu'un a un modèle je suis preneur... J'ai fait tourner mon programme sur cet export et voici quelques statistiques : Total of loaded imports: 43188 Total of matched imports: 33059 Number of matched elements: 31789 Number of updatable elements: 31756 Number of updated elements: 0 Repartition by matching scores: - score between 0% and 10% : 972 (3%) elements = 0 updated (970 were updatable) - score between 10% and 20% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 20% and 30% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 30% and 40% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 40% and 50% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 50% and 60% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 60% and 70% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 70% and 80% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 80% and 90% : 0 (0%) elements = 0 updated (0 were updatable) - score between 90% and 100% : 30817 (96%) elements = 0 updated (30786 were updatable) Quelques remarques : - sur les 43 188 buildings PSS seulement 33059 correspondent à au moins un bâtiment OSM = environ 1 buildings PSS sont écartés (soit parce qu'ils ont des coordonnées placées légèrement à côté du bâtiment soit parce que le bâtiment n'existe tout simplement pas dans OSM) - cela fait que 31789 buildings OSM correspondent avec au moins un building PSS : * 972 correspondent à plus d'un seul building PSS et dans ce cas là je préfère mettre un score global à 0% (et donc ne rien faire) car ça veut dire que le découpage de ces bâtiments OSM n'est pas assez précis. * 30817 correspondent qu'à un seul building PSS et parmi ceux ci 30786 sont updatables, les autres ne le sont pas car ils avaient déjà un tag height. Il faut bien comprendre que le souci comparé à mon import des bâtiments parisiens c'est qu'ici on a pas la surface des buildings, or je me basais justement sur celle ci pour calculer les scores de correspondance. Du coup un building PSS dont ses coordonnées sont à l'intérieur d'un building OSM a forcément un score de correspondance à 1.0 (ie. le score max). Par contre s'il y en a plus qu'un seul building PSS qui matche un building OSM (environ 3% des cas) alors je met le score global du building OSM à 0% afin de ne rien faire. Cela évitera pas mal de situations problématiques mais pas le cas où un building OSM correspond dans la réalité à plusieurs buildings de hauteur différente. C'est surtout vrai pour Paris mais ça peut aussi arriver hors de Paris même si c'est de manière beaucoup plus marginale de ce que j'ai vu. Mais ce que je pourrais éventuellement faire c'est avoir une bounding box d'exclusion afin de ne pas toucher à Paris et sa petite couronne. Ou sinon j'ai vu sur leur site que certains buildings avaient une surface de terrain. S'ils pouvaient la rajouter export je pourrais calculer des scores comme je le faisais pour l'import sur Paris. Sauf que cette notion de surface de terrain ne correspond pas forcément à l'empreinte du bâtiment (par ex. pour les résidences avec plusieurs immeubles ça peut être la surface totale de la résidence) et en plus cette info n'est pas présente à chaque fois. Au final il y aurait donc beaucoup moins que 30k buildings updatables mais au moins ça serait plus sûr, bref c'est à creuser... Sinon ça serait bien chouette s'ils pouvaient également nous rajouter dans leur export un ou deux champs supplémentaires, comme par exemple le nom ou l'année de construction mais bon c'est déjà assez classe qu'ils nous autorisent déjà utiliser la hauteur malgré leur vilaine licence BY-NC-ND. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
I agree with Dave here, but add some general remarks : Please handle the questions of should FOO-language name of an object be allowed in the database ? and should that databse be OSM or Wikidata ? separately. The decision of whether Абергавенни should be recorded as the Russian name for Abergavenny should be the same for Wikidata and OSM. I disagree with the idea that only local languages are acceptable, firstly because you don't know that there isn't a local speaking that language natively, and secondly because people have given names to foreign places before even the first maps were drawn. A name doesn't have to go through a vetting process to become a name. It becomes one as soon as it is used and recognised by more than one person. There's no point in complaining about name:ru (580k) when name:en is at 1320k, name:ja 320k, name:de 280k, name:fr 270k, and the taginfo map for all of those shows a worldwide distribution roughly matching the worldwide OSM data density. You can argue against machine-made non-reviewed translitterations, because they don't add anything that a data consumer couldn't and because they likely contain mistakes. But that's apparenlty not the case of the name:ru changeset that got reverted. I'm not worried about all named osm objects someday getting thousands of name:CC tags because realistically that's not going to happen. London still has a measly 154. Europe 46. Worldwide interest will decide how far a given name goes, but I'd be surprised (and pleased) if one place ever goes above 500. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap
Michał Brzozowski schrieb: On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Robert Kaiser ka...@kairo.at wrote: Also, I really, really hope my access point will not get into any really open-to-everyone database because I don't want people to follow me around by database request when I'm moving somewhere and don't want to be easily found. So, there's industry standard way to do this, add _nomap to your SSID. Or just don't broadcast SSID whatsoever. But I'm fine with those recording it that do not make it available for download by everyone. As the saying goes, wadriving is not a crime. If you transmit anything into the public air, and people receive that just as intended (that is no packet sniffing). you can't legally do anything about it. Making your movements available publicly is a privacy invasion, no matter if it's legal or not. A lot of privacy invasions are legal (like the NSA recording all European Internet traffic when it enters the USA), but that doesn't make them good or right. KaiRo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] modification page Wiki
Déjà la largeur forcée de la table (600 pixels) n'est pas nécessaire du tout, tout va bien quand on l'enlève. Ensuite si l'écran n'est pas assez large, les colonnes se reserrerront toutes seules. Le 28 mai 2015 20:31, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonsoir, La colonne Description est en fait basée sur un template : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ValueDescription Il te faut donc jouer avec les possibilités offertes par ce template, pour faire ce que tu souhaites. Peut-être en renseignant le style ? Francescu Le 28 mai 2015 20:27, bernard bernard.a...@laposte.net a écrit : Bonjour, J'essaie de modifier la page wiki Boulangerie 1- je voudrai élargir une colonne ; ici la colonne Description (pour faciliter la lecture) Un rapide aperçu sur le wiki ne laisse à penser que ce n'est pas possible. Peut-on élargir artificiellement la colonne .. Description... ? ou y at'il une méthode mieux adaptée ? Merci de vos réponses Cordialement bernard --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Francescu ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On Thursday 28 May 2015, Andrew Guertin wrote: There is a fundamental difference between an actual name for a place and a translation of one of those names I DO agree with this statement[1]. However, I think that the point at which a word stops being a transliteration and starts being a native word is much sooner than you seem to. I'm not a linguist, but if I had to pin down when I think a word becomes part of a language, I'd say whenever the person using it doesn't think they're code-switching.[2] It's clear that in many cases, the people writing Абергавенни don't consider themselves to ever be switching out of Russian. To me, that makes Абергавенни an actual name for the place. That might be the case but for OSM what matters should be if the use of this reference is sufficiently widespread, specific and prominent to be verifiable for mappers. If i use a certain 'name' to refer to a certain geographic feature this is not yet a name of that feature in any wider sense no matter how i generated this name. When i start communicating that name by refering to this feature with that name to others and others pick up the name and use it themselves this changes. When this use of the name i chose gets widespread - both in absolute numbers, i.e. people actually using it frequently and in relative numbers, i.e. this name becomes the dominating name to refer to that feature within a certain context, like in a certain language, it will be sufficiently established to be tagged in OSM (in my opinion - others might see this differently). Note the key part here is the conscious and specific use of the name for the feature in question. Automatically generated lists and databases do not count. These might influence peoples' use of names but do not establish a name on their own. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28 May 2015 at 09:50, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: e.g. the en:Spanish Steps / de:Spanische Treppe are called Scalinata di Trinità dei Monti in the local language (it is located at piazza di Spagna, that's where the foreign name comes from, while in Italian it is called after to church it leads to). Naturally, OSM has the original name of this world famous monument, but Wikidata hasn't. It does now. Wait, it hasn't the original name of this three-star-tourist-attraction, how's that? Have a look here: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q848072 the reason is that the Italian wikipedia hasn't got an article about the steps No, that so not the reason, The reason was simply that no one had got around to adding it. Rather like OSM not being complete, yet. If we were to massively use wikidata _instead of duplicating some details from there also in our db_ we would have to improve wikidata as well, You'd be welcome to do so. Just as Wikipedia editors who want better maps for Wikipedia will improve OSM. and impose our entity structure on them, Really? Good luck with that. But why do you think you would need to? or it won't work in some cases (and if it doesn't work in some case, it doesn't work at all). That is, of course, nonsense. Another issue I see with wikidata is that it contains information and details about spatial objects, but it doesn't contain the geometry it refers to. The geometry is in OSM, is it not? Why would Wikidata want to replicate that? Have a look at the Berlin object: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q64 This covers both, an administrative entity and a geographic place in one object (no problem here, but can be a problem elsewhere). Eventually, these will be split. This object has a property instance of metropolis http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q200250 I don't want to discuss whether Berlin is a metropolis or not, what I want to point out is that there seem to be different criteria defined for different languages: These descriptions aid users; they are not proscriptive. There are also local and cultural variations. Just like city in OSM. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28 May 2015 at 10:41, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I just hope that Wikidata doesn't list New Brige as the English name of Pont Neuf or else they have a problem ;) It alls it Pont neuf: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q335277 and has a property that tells you that that is its official name, which is in the French language. At some point, it will have a property that tells you that the name /means/ New Bridge. It is my impression that a large proportion of name:xx tags in OSM are added by naming specialists who do little else than large scale name additions; it would probably not be too much to ask for them to indulge Wikidata instead of OSM. Please do! if a mapper is of the opinion that no matching Wikidata object exists for an OSM feature, then they shouldn't use a wikidata tag, that much is clear! Or they could, if suitable, crate a WIkidata item... -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Reporting routing problems
W dniu 28.05.2015 23:11, Paul Norman napisał(a): On 5/28/2015 11:25 AM, Daniel Koć wrote: promises as to when we might get to this. Maybe our technical team should talk with theirs to make better feedback channel available? I would suggest reproducing the issue on open.mapquest.com and providing a link to that route when reporting. Yes, I did it. But it means it's another complexity to consider when reporting problems with their engine. I don't know how open.mapquest.org routing service is different (in terms of routing code) from what we have on OSM website, but that should be done automatically if they're not the same. Anyway, that's really tech2tech kind of problem. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] modification page Wiki
Tu as mal lu, il ne parle pas je pense de l'infobox à droite mais du tableau dans la page, où je viens de régler le problème en ôtant la largeur du tableau forcée inutilement (et nuisiblement). Le 28 mai 2015 20:31, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonsoir, La colonne Description est en fait basée sur un template : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ValueDescription Il te faut donc jouer avec les possibilités offertes par ce template, pour faire ce que tu souhaites. Peut-être en renseignant le style ? Francescu Le 28 mai 2015 20:27, bernard bernard.a...@laposte.net a écrit : Bonjour, J'essaie de modifier la page wiki Boulangerie 1- je voudrai élargir une colonne ; ici la colonne Description (pour faciliter la lecture) Un rapide aperçu sur le wiki ne laisse à penser que ce n'est pas possible. Peut-on élargir artificiellement la colonne .. Description... ? ou y at'il une méthode mieux adaptée ? Merci de vos réponses Cordialement bernard --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Francescu ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 27/05/15 22:13, Frederik Ramm wrote: We could then limit ourselves to using a name tag for the locally used name, or continue to allow a name:xx but only if these languages were actually used by the local population; throw in an int_name if you want (but some may say that's already an unfair privilege for users of English and the Latin alphabet). Anything else - i.e. names used for a place in other languages than the local ones - would be off-topic for OSM and should be recorded in Wikidata. Do you think Wikidata could play that role, and take the burden off of us? Or is Wikidata not mature enough for that yet, or even unsuitable? I've followed the to and fro on this and most things make sense. I would not be happy with a third party providing a 'service' that is currently handled via Nominatim and Geonames but this comes back to a proposal I put forward some ten years ago. At the end of the day, a 'translation' of everything contained in database is needed once one switches to a different native language. English has been adopted as the base language for the tagging, and currently it is expected that each tool creates it's own translations of that for 'local' use, when a central dictionary makes a LOT more sense. Adding 8 million locations each with it's own set of 'translations' dovetails in with that, and tools can then simply return a single language version of the data rather than having to manage hundreds of different versions of each name. If a translation exists in the dictionary, that is used, otherwise a fall back to a secondary language can be used eventually falling back to an English identifier. For other users of the material, they could substitute their own dictionary in place of the 'official' one, so we can have Klingon or Jedi for those using the maps for gaming purposes. But I don't think we can rely on a third party like Wikidata to provide this dictionary ... they may however parallel it's operation? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap
It is not clear to me what isn't free about MLS, but in any case openbmap has been around for quite a while. The main issue with -all- of these alternative location services is that they currently can't be seamlessly be integrated in to mobile OSs without the cooperation of the manufacturers which kinds of makes them redundant. Simon Am 28.05.2015 um 11:21 schrieb Paul Johnson: OpenBMap http://radiocells.org/ It's similar to Google's location services or Mozilla's location service, but free. You can make use of it as a location provider in Android using the OpenBMap plugin https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=unifiednlpfdid=org.openbmap.unifiedNlp for microG unified NLP. And you can contribute data as well using the Radiobeacon app https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=org.openbmap. Seems to be in it's very early stages right now, but could be a real powerhouse with a little extra effort. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OSM Boundaries réduit la France
On tombe régulièrement sur ce conflit de frontières au Mont Blanc (visiblement les Italiens ne sont pas d'accord alors qu'officiellement cet accord frontalier existe avec une tolérance sur le sommet, mais on admet la frontière comme passant par les sommets des deux dômes sans les contourner d'un côte ou de l'autre). Certains contributeurs font trop de zèle sur les anciennes revendications politiques qui n'ont plus lieu d'être (les deux pays de toute façon assurant conjointement la sécurité dans la zone, selon les conditions météo pour les hélicos, l'état de la neige et les voies d'accès praticables ou non). On est avant tout dans un espace naturel protégé (et risqué) où la question de fierté politique nationale n'a pas sa place. Le 27 mai 2015 15:24, didier2020 didier2...@free.fr a écrit : la relation est ouverte au niveau du mont blanc http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/45.83243/6.86439 il y a 5 nodes au meme endroit ... je ne sais pas corriger car le cadastre ne correspond pas du tout au tracé de frontiere. Le mercredi 27 mai 2015 à 14:59 +0200, Antoine Riche a écrit : Bonjour, Est-ce quelqu'un sait qui maintient le service OSM Boundaries : https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/boundaries/ ? C'est un outil plutôt bien fait pour récupérer les limites administratives, mais aujourd'hui la France a perdu sa partie métropolitaine, ne reste que la France d'outre-mer. Cela semble dû à l'absence de la relation de niveau 3, du coup on ne peut pas accéder à celles de niveaux supérieurs. Pourtant celle-ci a l'air en bon état et n'a pas été modifiée récemment : http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1403916 Antoine. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28 May 2015 at 13:33, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/05/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Another issue that can be seen here: nobody will want this Puente Nuevo (París) as a label for a bridge on a map (París) Funny ah? Every single entity in wikidata I have looked at had some issues in one or the other way, I believe we would get more problems than we would solve. The issue here is that these strings are the name of the wikipedia article in various language, which is *not* the same as the name of the location in various languages. Wikipedia likes to add some disambiguation text, which we do not want in OSM. Wikidata labels do not include that disambiguation (some exceptions may be found, but they are user errors,and are being weeded out). https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q84 You can see its names in various languages by clicking the Labels list tab (then note slidebar) Call me stupid, but I don't see any clickable label list tab ? Sorry; you won't see it if you're not logged in. You'd need to log in and enable this gadget: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tools/Gadgets#LabelLister I'll ask if there's a method for non-logged-in users to see them. The closest thing I see is the list of wikipedia articles, which has the problem mentioned above. Those are not the labels -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
[Resending, to this list] On 27 May 2015 at 23:03, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: OpenStreetMap is the spatial representation of the world - wouldn't it make sense then to also store the translations for locations in OpenStreetMap? No. Wikidata exists because the Wikipedia community realised that it is folly to store and maintain duplicate copies of the same data in more than one location (in this case, Wikipedias in different languages). Not only is that wasteful - especially in terms of volunteer effort - but it also results in de-synchronisation. Instead, Wikidata was created to hold data which would then be used by multiple Wikipedias (and sister Wikimedia projects), and made available to third parties, of which OSM is one. We simply don't have the spare volunteer capacity to needlessly dupliate all that effort; even if it were the sensible thing to do, which it is not. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-fr] Cépages ?
Bonjour, Quelqu'un sait-il s'il est possible d'indiquer les cépages des vignes et quels attributs utiliser ? J'ai cherché, mais rien trouvé à ce sujet dans le wiki. Merci Laurent ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Hi, On 05/28/2015 10:27 PM, Dave Corley wrote: Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries, people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted on a universal basis or its not. It is not. Your either-or is far too simplistic even for today's OpenStreetMap, and sadly doesn't help this discussion at all. There's quite a couple of cultures/world views that we are already rejecting today, for example nationalist world views that would apply certain name tags to objects clearly outside their jurisdiction and against the expressed wish of the local population. Decisions have to be made, especially were one person's freedom starts to impact another person's freedom; it never was free-for-all. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] modification page Wiki
En fait pour les boulangeries, de plus en plus il y a aussi de l'alimentation rapide à emporter (très couramment les sandwiches, pizzas, parfois aussi des salades...) sans compter aussi les boissons (non alcoolisées ou alors juste de la bière en canette, vendue uniquement avec un produit alimentaire), glaces, yaourts à boire... Je ne connais plus une seule boulangerie (même et surtout les plus petites) qui ne fasse pas au moins des sandwiches à emporter (s'il n'y en a pas, en vitrine, on peut demander ce sera fait avec le pain des fournées en vente) et n'a pas un frigo avec des boissons à emporter (eau, colas et sodas, jus de fruits). à l'occasion ceux qui déjeunent comme ça prendront aussi leur dessert dans la patisserie ou viennoiserie proposée. Parfois on a aussi une ou deux tables pour consommer sur place, et on vous sert aussi le café (le matin on peut y prendre un petit déjeuner). Les boulangeries dans les zones commerciales et industrielles ont même parfois une terrasse ou une vraie complète de restauration (consommation sur plateau). Mais là encore aucun tag mentionné pour indiquer la restauration sur place. Ces commerces traditionnels se diversifient en multi-service (et imitent ce que font depuis longtemps des chaines comme La Brioche Dorée dans les centres commerciaux et centres-villes ou stations d'autoroutes), même si la boulangerie reste leur activité principale. En revanche les tags pour les chocolats ou la confiserie, le sans-gluten, le sans-lactose, c'est en peu plus folklo (et pourquoi pas non plus le sans-sel ? ça fait hurler les boulangers, mais il y a un besoin, on compense le manque de gout par des farines plus goûteuses comme la farine de châtaigne ou d'autres céréales comme le sésame). D'ailleurs souvent ce n'est que de la revente de chocolats et confiseries industrielles, les même qu'en supermarché (un boulanger ne s'invente pas chocolatier ou confiseur sans matériel spécifique, et sans volume de vente conséquent, mais des boulangers peuvent se regrouper pour avoir un même fabricant et ils le font maintenant aussi pour la pâtisserie, certains aussi pour les salades à emporter, comme ils s'allient avec d'autres commerces comme les café-bars-tabacs, pour former des dépôts de pains, ouverts les jours où ils sont fermés). Le 28 mai 2015 22:29, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit : Tu as mal lu, il ne parle pas je pense de l'infobox à droite mais du tableau dans la page, où je viens de régler le problème en ôtant la largeur du tableau forcée inutilement (et nuisiblement). Le 28 mai 2015 20:31, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonsoir, La colonne Description est en fait basée sur un template : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ValueDescription Il te faut donc jouer avec les possibilités offertes par ce template, pour faire ce que tu souhaites. Peut-être en renseignant le style ? Francescu Le 28 mai 2015 20:27, bernard bernard.a...@laposte.net a écrit : Bonjour, J'essaie de modifier la page wiki Boulangerie 1- je voudrai élargir une colonne ; ici la colonne Description (pour faciliter la lecture) Un rapide aperçu sur le wiki ne laisse à penser que ce n'est pas possible. Peut-on élargir artificiellement la colonne .. Description... ? ou y at'il une méthode mieux adaptée ? Merci de vos réponses Cordialement bernard --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Francescu ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28 May 2015 at 09:50, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 27/05/2015 22:56, Andy Mabbett wrote: A demonstrator, using Wikidata labels, is: http://googleknowledge.github.io/qlabel/demo/map/ (choose select language). Coders might enjoy viewing the source code. That's interesting, but seems just to do multiple http transactions to get the names it needs (something that's not really scalable). As I said, it's a *demonstrator*. It's not meant to scale. What I'd typically want to do with wikidata would be something like: 1) define a series of properties that I'm interested in. Unfortunately I don't see this in any sort of sensible format - I just see a bunch of web pages like http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties which isn't really helpful. I'm not sure what you're looking for. I suspect that these are problems that someone, somewhere has already solved Indeed. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 05/27/2015 05:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Not only well-known tourist magnets carry foreign names; some dedicated language mappers have gone over and beyond the call of duty and added, for example, name:ru tags even to small villages: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name%3Aru#map (This is a matter currently under investigation by Data Working Group and it is relatively certain that not all 582,653 name:ru tags will remain.) Considering the existence of the former Soviet Union, and especially that there are areas of Ukraine where both Russian and Ukrainian are spoken and most roads, places, etc have names (and thus tags) in both languages, this number of 582,653 name:ru tags is hard to interpret. My skill with overpass-turbo isn't the best, but I was able to relatively easily limit a search to a bounding box around North and South America. Within that box, a search returned 2648 nodes and 909 ways with name:ru (relations timed out). Considering in 2007 Russian was the primary language spoken in the homes of over 850,000 individuals living in the United States[1], 3500 features with Russian names across all of North and South America seems very low, and there's lots of opportunity for more data to be added. --Andrew [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language#Geographic_distribution ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
Hi, ist jetzt zwar ziemlich OT, ich antworte jetzt aber trotzdem hier, vielleicht interessierts ja noch jemanden ;) Johannes Kröger schrieb: PS: Keine Ahnung, wie ich tief im Thread antworten kann mit Claws-Mail und Digests, sorry. ich hab zwar keinen Digest, aber soweit ich weiß steht auch im Digest die Message-ID. Die nimmst du und schreibst sie hinter In-Reply-To:. Bei deiner Mail war das Message-ID: 20150528184316.7edcd...@helios.fritz.box und das pack ich (bzw bei mir ohne Digest natürlich der Mailer selbst) in den Header als In-Reply-To und fertig :) Der Mailclient kann dann daraus die Baumstruktur rekonstruieren. Gruß, Peda ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
Hi everyone, The boundary relation for Snowdonia National Park is severely messed up at the moment. Is there anyone who can sort this out? I don't mind doing the editing but I kind of resent fixing somebody else's damage and I haven't got a source for the boundary vectors. The latest editor of the relation is SK53 but he is a respected, experienced mapper and I don't believe he would do this. Querying the history on the website just times out so I can't easily see when it went pear-shaped and how it used to be http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 [1] Cheers, Colin Links: -- [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 28.05.2015 um 19:51 schrieb Manfred A. Reiter: *Ernst gemeinter Vorschlag:* Ihr redet mal mit Eurem Dozenten, ob der für Harald Hartmann die Fahrtkosten und ein Honorar zahlen kann, dann hättet Ihr jemanden, der einerseits die Community kennt und der andererseits weiß, wie man solche Umfragen einigermaßen ;-) gesichert durchführen kann. Danke für die Blumen ... aber ich denke das sollte jeder Erst-Semester Informatiker hinbekommen ... öhm verdammt, ich habe ja gar nicht studiert ... naja egal. Letztendlich gibt es ja da, am eigenen Leibe erfahren - naja so dramatisch war das gar nicht - noch ein ganz anderes grundsätzliches Problem bzw. Erkenntnis: das man mit Forum, Mailingliste und Wochennotiz nur einen Bruchteil der aktiven deutschen Mapper erreicht. Seit Januar haben gerade einmal 293 OSM Accounts mindestens eine Umfrage auf der Umfrageplattform beantwortet, ca. 50% davon mindestens fünf Fragen. Und wenn man den anderen Statistiken trauen darf - ich bin jetzt zu faul die rauszusuchen - sind definitiv sehr viel mehr Accounts mit mappen aktiv. Ich bin jetzt seit gut einem Jahr aktiv dabei und subjektiv betrachtet mögen es maximal 50 Mapper sein, die mir in diesem Jahr mit penetranter Regelmäßigkeit in der Community über den Weg laufen ;-) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVZ2uXAAoJEIuLcq40+VqtTmEIAJuLtl880jB+0qGLzAkT8/U7 cdsWrx+g0Ynqk4BRFOmPu+2JUdRqBmGdk8gMeZrSiThanmHAGxrs3KTarQsCHkrG QK3/dCayGoQZkphrdFGMOqfv0aGa8I9H1c1ig/3cuxY9VfmR/7/oGtQ02X1nKSM8 JQtoxilbS6ofgChWThq2giHLkswjPRFiRvil2rkBjcTQHy1czKQeh/ZeF6NK5YzZ Nz6Od/GVw5f5q3uKGCWbTOtvnH0w6kG95Xpp20kwps6UC+QboZK481cNEU07Y3ah 5obZQFU/LXd2jh2wuJIC5EAcABBqqjrJs9npyacwCon9I+DYAWNLa9+kJCMb1sE= =5+Uj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-tr] openstreetmap.org.tr
merhabalar, openstreetmap.org.tr çıkmıyor artık... Fakat domain adı 2019-05-30 kadar geçerli... ___ Talk-tr mailing list Talk-tr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tr
Re: [Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dem stimme ich voll und ganz zu, deswegen habe ich ja auch Vor- und Nachteile geschrieben ;-) Letztendlich gibt es hier definitiv zwei Gruppierungen, siehe auch die Umfrage nach Transparenz oder Anonymität [1] [1]: http://osm.haraldhartmann.de/umfrage/poll/5 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVZ22RAAoJEIuLcq40+Vqt7L8H/j3DZbO+AQqT65gAbbMVuEcn Tb5mKLM7GJuB96au9OGfvEYs6raZ4b/UC5K+wvhR5ROU7j7W8YUJktQbnNfmZs1e lpZpHTsvFmgHfz87YdmgdgCwB5tEbD6aW90FGdCJTFMHUdx0TjZpi+vIMM5Xu5et I2vlfy8GVgh3LA1/YPPpMACEf3TQbnE1sTBWv+F0ccECPct3IB9QLyPx3pzLUtqM gSzNX96DppYJnfdVk4Eu+nLPktC6mKkUuxf++5JbqQsQT7myYCDB/yCWbw8eCUK7 lqAZrH9ClVj5xvB5kYKo9LBmUlC8aKrv60oPOMMVX21CaYiINQjcWbtKa5ryS9s= =XlIB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap
Paul Johnson schrieb: OpenBMap http://radiocells.org/ It's similar to Google's location services or Mozilla's location service, but free. What's not free in Mozilla's service? Also, I really, really hope my access point will not get into any really open-to-everyone database because I don't want people to follow me around by database request when I'm moving somewhere and don't want to be easily found. KaiRo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Reporting routing problems
W dniu 28.05.2015 18:33, Janko Mihelić napisał(a): I'd like the following procedure: 4. Later a mapper clicks the note, and it shows the text and the problematic route. I'm also interested in 5. - standard procedure for reporting routing errors to engine operators. =} For OSRM I have just opened an issue on GitHub ( https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/issues ) and that's all - mission accomplished. With MapQuest it was much harder to find how can I report another bug. Finally I have found Residential Map or Route Errors link on Support page ( https://support.mapquest.com/hc/en-us - looks like the link itself is dynamic, because it has issue number included). Help service was as quick as in OSRM, but they said MapQuest currently support is only active for USA and Canada and while they hope international routing will be also supported, they can only recommend me Open MapQuest with OSM data. =} After I said that I originally came from OSM itself, the help line operator said that he will share this with our routing team but please note that we are not actively supporting international routing right now so I unfortunately can't make any promises as to when we might get to this. Maybe our technical team should talk with theirs to make better feedback channel available? We're left with GraphHopper feedback for now, but I can't say anything about it, because I just don't have an issue with their service. =} -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-fr] modification page Wiki
Bonjour, J'essaie de modifier la page wiki Boulangerie 1- je voudrai élargir une colonne ; ici la colonne Description (pour faciliter la lecture) Un rapide aperçu sur le wiki ne laisse à penser que ce n'est pas possible. Peut-on élargir artificiellement la colonne .. Description... ? ou y at'il une méthode mieux adaptée ? Merci de vos réponses Cordialement bernard --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SeFaireConnaitre :(
J'en ai vu aussi, mais il y a du mieux. Leur procédure reste bizarre : Un point à un mauvais emplacement est créé (milieu de la route) Puis, dans un autre changeset, il est recalé. C'est le cas de ton exemple, reste à voir si sa position actuelle est la bonne. Stf Le 28/05/2015 19:25, Pierre-Yves Berrard a écrit : Recrudescence de création de points mal placés de manière automatique par l'utilisateur SeFaireConnaitre. Un exemple (parmi beaucoup) : https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31523303 Ce contributeur (une agence de com) semble ignorer les remarques qu'on lui a fait à ce sujet... https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2014-November/073250.html ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Hi, On 05/28/2015 08:53 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote: As an example Botswana has English as an official language and Setswana as the overwhelming majority language. However it also has 20 smaller languages, some of them shared with neighboring nations and some very small local ones. Those languages already fight for their existence as the English names are given to their villages on official maps, with maybe the local in a footnote. Using OSM we can present them with maps of their own homes in their own languages. That's something I would support. What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
Hallo David, Susanne, *, Friede! Michael meinte schon, dass Ihr heute viel gelernt habt. Das glaube ich auch. Das Teil jetzt einfach durchzuboxen bringt gar mE nichts. Wenn Ihr ein valides Ergebnis haben wollt, lässt sich in der Form so nicht erreichen! Wenn Ihr die OSMCommunity erreichen wollt, dann gehört das Forum dazu. Wenn Ihr ausdrücklich sagt, wir wollen nur die MLCommunity haben, dann halt eben nur das. Dann muss das aber auch bei Euren Auswertungen deutlich werden. Nur inwieweit die Aussagen dann die deutsche Community abbilden, ist mit verlaub gesagt zweifelhaft. *Ernst gemeinter Vorschlag:* Ihr redet mal mit Eurem Dozenten, ob der für Harald Hartmann die Fahrtkosten und ein Honorar zahlen kann, dann hättet Ihr jemanden, der einerseits die Community kennt und der andererseits weiß, wie man solche Umfragen einigermaßen ;-) gesichert durchführen kann. *Vorteil für Euch:* Ihr lernt noch was zum Thema Umfragen und Statistik, Ihr versteht danach auch sehr viel mehr von OSM und die Ergebnisse werden valide. ;-) Nein, ich bin nicht mit Harald verheiratet oder verschwägert und ich habe ihn auch nicht vorher gefragt ob ich das posten darf, geschweige denn kenne ich seinen Tagessatz. Aber mE sollte das ein Weg sein, der Euch auch in Eurem Studium weiter bringt. LG Manfred Am 28. Mai 2015 um 18:16 schrieb David Stoitner davidstoit...@stud.uni-frankfurt.de: Hallo liebe Mitglieder der Mailingliste, es ist schade, dass wir Euch so sehr verärgert haben. Wir haben im Plenum über die Kritik bezüglich einer Veröffentlichung der Umfrage im Forum diskutiert. Wir haben uns anfänglich absichtlich dafür entschieden, den Fragebogen nur über die Mailingliste zu verbreiten. Dennoch wollen wir uns mit den Admins des Forums in Kontakt setzen, um zu prüfen, ob wir einen Forumsbeitrag schreiben können, bei dem nur die registrierten Forumsmitglieder Zugriff auf den Link haben. Wir hoffen, dass wir schnell zu einer Lösung kommen, damit die Umfrage auch im Forum gepostet wird. Wir möchte noch einmal darauf hinweisen, dass wir eine studentische Gruppe sind und dies der erste von uns konzipierte Fragebogen ist. Deswegen sind wir natürlich auch nicht fehlerfrei ;-). Es würde uns freuen, wenn sich dennoch einige entscheiden würden, an unserer Umfrahe teilzunehmen, weil davon natürlich auch unsere Seminararbeit abhängt. Viele Grüße David ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- ## Manfred Reiter - - ## www.weeklyOSM.eu ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk-be] La Wallonie picarde à vélo - TEST
Hi Ben, thanks for your answer. You make a point here by submitting this document : it wasn’t clear to me that such document existed and was mandatory, at least against a simple authorisation email. Now I think that a public administration will for sure be afraid to sign such a document. They hate written things ;-) Let’s wait and see. Up to now : no answer. Matthieu On 27 May 2015, at 23:24, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, A bit difficult for me to follow (sorry, french still not very good, shame on me!) but if you want to use data like this you should have **them** sign a agreement that they grant permission to use the data in OSM and release it as ODbL. An email is never enough as permission to use data. The template letters can be found on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission#Letter_Template3 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission#Letter_Template3 I agree with Jo here: Donc IDETA doît décider s'ils veulent que nous effacions ce que a déjà été repris (avec leur permission) Et ils doivent décider si nous pouvons continuer avec les données qui nous étaient mises à disposition. De toute façon nous ne pouvons pas signer ce nouvel accord draconique qui contredit ce qui était convenu auparavant. Donc pas moyen de mettre à jour les données, sauf en les répérant sur place avec un peu plus de peine. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
I have one general question. Some OSM relations contain a link to a Wikidata item. For those relations, would it be possible to automatically import the names in several languages and do so in a way that changes in OSM also change Wikidata? Thanks, Micru On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 6:37 PM, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 28/05/2015 16:38, Andrew Guertin wrote: A quick internet search shows plenty of results for Абергавенни, including Wikipedia, hotel booking sites, and Harry Potter websites, and by looking at Google's book results, you can see that it's been in use since at least the 1800s. And with just a few minutes' look, I found someone from the next city over using the name[1]. I understand this was just an example, but it seems to show the opposite of what you wanted. The town with the English name Abergavenny also has a Russian name Абергавенни, which is in use by locals, and has been established for hundreds of years. No, it does not. Abergavenny / Y Fenni has actual names that people from there use to describe the place (and appears on signs) in two languages; Абергавенни is merely a translation of one of them. It's not verifiable on the ground. There is a fundamental difference between an actual name for a place and a translation of one of those names - it's that distinction that we would lose by populating name:ru, name:xx or whatever alongside name:cy and name:en. The russian-language link talking about Abergavenny Food Festival does indeed use the word Абергавенни- and that's a translation of Abergavenny in that message (they even put Abergavenny in brackets afterwards to make it clear that that's what it is - it's clearly not guaranteed to be understood on its own). If Абергавенни is added as name:ru for Abergavenny, how would we tell the real names (the ones that people have historically used locally to refer to the place) from the tranlations? Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-cl] Instalación local mapa de Chile
Hola estimados. Recién me uní a la lista. Escribo debido a que quiero realizar una instalación local y tengo una duda.Inicialmente había posteado la consulta en la lista newbie de osm y ellos me comentaron acerca de la lista nacional.Mi deseo es pasar la capa a una instalación local para poder consultarla internamente, sin acceso a internet. Para eso he descargado el .osm desde aquí:http://download.geofabrik.de/south-america/chile.htmlEl problema que tengo es que, cuando la importo o la abro desde una herramienta GIS como QGis 2.8.1 veo las capas:- waterways- roads- railways- points- places- natural- landuse- buildings Pero no aparece la cartografía base sobre la que se despliega esa información (el mapa). Los bordes o esquinas del país no se ven.Lo que he intentado es usar algunos shp gratuitos descargados desde internet y he puesto encima las capas de información de OSM, pero esos mapas no son tan detallados/precisos como los de openstreetmap, especialmente en el sector sur donde hay gran cantidad de islas.Aquí envío una cap de lo que puedo ver con QGIS:http://postimg.org/image/3m0nazcpb/ Probé también con la capa completa de sudamérica descargada desde el mismo sitio y pasa lo mismo.¿Saben ustedes si algo estoy haciendo mal? ¿en las capas descargadas debería aparecer el fondo (mapa)?Cualquier idea, ayuda estaría genialSaludos___ Talk-cl mailing list Talk-cl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cl
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] modification page Wiki
Bonsoir, La colonne Description est en fait basée sur un template : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ValueDescription Il te faut donc jouer avec les possibilités offertes par ce template, pour faire ce que tu souhaites. Peut-être en renseignant le style ? Francescu Le 28 mai 2015 20:27, bernard bernard.a...@laposte.net a écrit : Bonjour, J'essaie de modifier la page wiki Boulangerie 1- je voudrai élargir une colonne ; ici la colonne Description (pour faciliter la lecture) Un rapide aperçu sur le wiki ne laisse à penser que ce n'est pas possible. Peut-on élargir artificiellement la colonne .. Description... ? ou y at'il une méthode mieux adaptée ? Merci de vos réponses Cordialement bernard --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Francescu ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Þann 28.5.2015 15:38, skrifaði Andrew Guertin: While your exact words here aren't wrong, I think you're severely underestimating what objects have names in what languages. Russia and the UK are major world powers that have had a lot of interaction as both allies and enemies, economically, militarily, and culturally, and there are tens to hundreds of thousands of people who were born in Russia living in the UK[2]. It would be pretty absurd to for place names NOT to exist, and as shown above the evidence shows that they do exist and are in use. For that reason I think the revert was wrong, and the edit should be allowed to be re-performed. I agree that the revert was maybe somewhat overzealous. While we do not have a viable and published method and procedures in place on how to handle multi-lingual names in a different manner, e.g. with an outside source, then reverting any name translations is hard to argue for. The multi-lingual aspect of OSM is one of its absolutely strongest advantages. Being able to create maps of regions in the languages of the local population is quite simply fantastical and maybe under-appreciated by those who speak dominant languages, worldwide or regional. As an example Botswana has English as an official language and Setswana as the overwhelming majority language. However it also has 20 smaller languages, some of them shared with neighboring nations and some very small local ones. Those languages already fight for their existence as the English names are given to their villages on official maps, with maybe the local in a footnote. Using OSM we can present them with maps of their own homes in their own languages. So the question is also, do we outsource this strength of OSM? Wikidata has notability problems and so I'm wary of it, no matter the guidelines there is no shortage of people who deem their judgement in what human knowledge is worth retaining to be superior to everything else. Is name inflation bad? Doubtful in my mind, even the opposite. --Jói / Stalfur ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-be] For OSM copyright enforcers: strangest map yet
Hi, I stumbled on this map http://www.balnam.be/boninne/sentier/21. They've got the Google Pegman, markers, zoom bar and logo. They've got a Google Terms of Use https://www.google.com/intl/en_US/help/terms_maps.html. But, gulp, the map is OSM (what I've just mapped, looked like an echo ;-) ) In fact, the map is multi-background. There seems to be a cookie to remember your preference. And the default preference was OSM as I got it from Google Search. But yet... Cheers André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 05/28/2015 12:37 PM, SomeoneElse wrote: There is a fundamental difference between an actual name for a place and a translation of one of those names I DO agree with this statement[1]. However, I think that the point at which a word stops being a transliteration and starts being a native word is much sooner than you seem to. I'm not a linguist, but if I had to pin down when I think a word becomes part of a language, I'd say whenever the person using it doesn't think they're code-switching.[2] It's clear that in many cases, the people writing Абергавенни don't consider themselves to ever be switching out of Russian. To me, that makes Абергавенни an actual name for the place. The town with the English name Abergavenny also has a Russian name Абергавенни, which is in use by locals, and has been established for hundreds of years. No, it does not. Abergavenny / Y Fenni has actual names that people from there use to describe the place (and appears on signs) in two languages; Абергавенни is merely a translation of one of them. It's not verifiable on the ground. The question of actual names versus transliterations is addressed above, but with respect to on the ground, I assert that if you asked a local who spoke Russian the question What is the Russian-language name for this town?, they would reply Абергавенни. Assuming that assertion is correct, is on the ground satisfied? Do you think the assertion is incorrect? --Andrew [1] I think the word translation is wrong here. Translation takes something in one language and expresses the same meaning in another language. Transliteration takes something in one language and expresses the same sounds in another language. [2] Obviously there's a separate barrier for something to be generally accepted rather than just one person's made up word. That barrier is pretty low in the case of a place name, where most people would make up the same new word anyway. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
On 28/05/2015 20:12, Colin Smale wrote: Querying the history on the website just times out so I can't easily see when it went pear-shaped and how it used to be http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 http://osm.mapki.com/history/relation.php?id=287245 shows recent changes to it (I haven't been through and seen what should / shouldn't have been deleted). Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
Am 28. Mai 2015 um 21:26 schrieb Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Was die Gefahr des Mehrfachausfüllens betrifft; ich vermute mal, die gibt es allenthalben im Web, und es dürfte gewiss statistische Methoden geben, dem zu begegnen. ich halte die Angst davor für ziemlich übertrieben, es geht für die Mapper ja um nichts, und es ist schon nicht wenig, alle Fragen einmal auszufüllen, seine Zeit dafür herzugeben, es mehrfach zu tun (oder gar einen Bot zu schreiben, der es tut), ist glaube ich unrealistisch. Gruß, Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Hi, On 05/28/2015 09:19 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. *Especially* if their reasoning was that this makes it nicer for them to run a tank through these places in their own-language war simulation with their buddies. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hallo, On 05/28/2015 06:50 PM, Harald Hartmann wrote: Tja, hat halt irgendwie alles seine Vor- und auch Nachteile wenn man Umfragen mit vorheriger OAuth Anmeldung erstellt und somit sichergestellt ist, dass jeder OSM Account (!=OSM User) auch nur einmal das Dinges ausfüllen kann :D Um ehrlich zu sein, wenn eine Umfrage wie diese hier mit einer OAuth-Abfrage erschiene, würde ich einen deutlich lauteren Aufschrei erwarten. Schliesslich sind gerade die Power-User, die als erste bei so einer Umfrage mitmachen würden, in aller Regel nicht geizig mit der öffentlichen Zuordnung zwischen ihrem Usernamen und ihrer Identität. Ich zumindest würde einer mir unbekannten Partei sicherlich keine persönlichen Fragen beantworten, wenn ich mich vorher mit meinem OSM-Usernamen einloggen soll; ich würde das sogar als dreist empfinden, und ich bin sicher, dass ich damit nicht alleine stehe. Was die Gefahr des Mehrfachausfüllens betrifft; ich vermute mal, die gibt es allenthalben im Web, und es dürfte gewiss statistische Methoden geben, dem zu begegnen. Bye Frederik - -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVZ2v6AAoJEOx/uhGAJu9H7cIIAJ1Soiiu9Ox34DiSDQzLRlEk Ph+3udgL+Zxglkv74Y0yTDQE4i3zpl2iNZJO/2K1lDQzMo6bZRtp95e4OkZZfvYA 1yzbNzWMl1sK5NpuOpx+4jZpzWI5zZSLRCW51qAjZ8nu42AMPstizz3WEGnG33EA zQlkL9W21d2QVEMT6PloIzPyA7BLF13H4+ifyWVyZKqVBECbKdoYo6CSnzFef+59 l6UcTvN9hnQw+DXG9Kd9E9LKhzMbww/ca1oiwfS8fi+YBUpDcAgmqeH5QIDJMVbk 8BEaksKyR0L5eUt0UriyNFzrC9xniCZrX44FJUEhmKsMiQ51gAb4n5O+MhNap1k= =9g2Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
Dammit, how did I miss that one? Thanks for pointing it out. It's fixed now and the analyser now comes up green. On 2015-05-29 01:57, Dave F. wrote: Hi Colin FYI There appears to be a minor overlap on the Eastern marker: http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=287245 [2] On 29/05/2015 00:46, Colin Smale wrote: Thanks to the people who pointed me at helpful tools. I have fixed it up as best as I can for the moment - obviously erroneous stretches of coastline have been removed, missing segments have been added where a bridge has been inserted, that kind of thing. Geometrically it looks OK, and it seems very roughly to correspond to the illustrative map on Wikipedia. //colin On 2015-05-28 21:12, Colin Smale wrote: Hi everyone, The boundary relation for Snowdonia National Park is severely messed up at the moment. Is there anyone who can sort this out? I don't mind doing the editing but I kind of resent fixing somebody else's damage and I haven't got a source for the boundary vectors. The latest editor of the relation is SK53 but he is a respected, experienced mapper and I don't believe he would do this. Querying the history on the website just times out so I can't easily see when it went pear-shaped and how it used to be http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 [3] Cheers, Colin ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb [1] ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb [1] - [4] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com [4] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb [2] http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=287245 [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 [4] http://www.avast.com/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-cl] Instalación local mapa de Chile
Estimado, gracias por responderLo he intentado con pgsql + postgis también. Me pasa lo mismo. Quizás no he sabido explicar bien lo que necesito. Yo leo los .shp y se vé la información (nombre de ríos, caminos, islas, etc) y las geometrías que los representan. Lo que no veo (y desconozco si viene incluído en el .shp) es el territorio o terreno. No me importa demasiado si es el mapa politico, con relieve u otro. Por ahora lo que hice fue descargar el mapa de las areas administrativas desde http://www.diva-gis.org/ y sobre ese estoy proyectando los .shp descargados de geofabrik.de, sin embargo en ese mapa los bordes son un poco toscos y algunos sectores de las regiones sur, que debieran ser entradas de agua, están cubiertas de tierra según el .shp.. ¿Estaré haciendo algo mal? ¿no se me ocurré que? ¿O el terreno está en la db completa de osm que pesa como 50GB comprimida?. En su versión local, ¿usted también tiene el terreno nacional? o esa parte la consulta directamente a un wms externo? Lo que necesito que se vea y que no aparece es esto: http://d-maps.com/m/america/chili/chili13.gif | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | View on d-maps.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | Saludos On Thursday, May 28, 2015 6:41 PM, Álvaro Monares G. amona...@dcc.uchile.cl wrote: Hola uno dos, puede que sea problema del lector, lo otro es que bajes el shape directamente http://download.geofabrik.de/south-america/chile-latest.shp.zip En mi caso personal lo tengo en una bd de postgres+postgis que pasa por un preproceso. Si estas viendo cosas como waterways, railways etc, que raro que no aparezca algo como highway que son las calles. Saludos Álvaro Monares G. El 28-05-2015 a las 15:54, uno dos escribió: Hola estimados. Recién me uní a la lista. Escribo debido a que quiero realizar una instalación local y tengo una duda. Inicialmente había posteado la consulta en la lista newbie de osm y ellos me comentaron acerca de la lista nacional. Mi deseo es pasar la capa a una instalación local para poder consultarla internamente, sin acceso a internet. Para eso he descargado el .osm desde aquí: http://download.geofabrik.de/south-america/chile.html El problema que tengo es que, cuando la importo o la abro desde una herramienta GIS como QGis 2.8.1 veo las capas: - waterways - roads - railways - points - places - natural - landuse - buildings Pero no aparece la cartografía base sobre la que se despliega esa información (el mapa). Los bordes o esquinas del país no se ven. Lo que he intentado es usar algunos shp gratuitos descargados desde internet y he puesto encima las capas de información de OSM, pero esos mapas no son tan detallados/precisos como los de openstreetmap, especialmente en el sector sur donde hay gran cantidad de islas. Aquí envío una cap de lo que puedo ver con QGIS: http://postimg.org/image/3m0nazcpb/Probé también con la capa completa de sudamérica descargada desde el mismo sitio y pasa lo mismo. ¿Saben ustedes si algo estoy haciendo mal? ¿en las capas descargadas debería aparecer el fondo (mapa)? Cualquier idea, ayuda estaría genial Saludos ___ Talk-cl mailing list Talk-cl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cl ___ Talk-cl mailing list Talk-cl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cl
Re: [Talk-in] Taginfo for India OSM
Hi Yogi, Is there any tool to know how many kms of NH is covered in OSM http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/tags/network=IN%3ANH ? http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/keys/network#values Thanks, Naveen On 27 May 2015 at 13:52, Yogesh योगि yog...@karnatakaeducation.org.in wrote: Right, and tags like noexit=no http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/tags/noexit=no are still in use although it's suggested http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:noexit%3Dno not to use. May be we'll find many more which can be helpful in improving our map data. And thanks to Sajjad and Satya, the taginfo instance is now live at new address - http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/ Henceforth, everyone please use the above address to find the tagging stats for India. Also added the same to the taginfo page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Taginfo/Sites on OpenStreetMap wiki. On Monday 25 May 2015 11:58 PM, Arun Ganesh wrote: Yogesh, this is really useful. Already see we need an anganwadi tag http://rmsa.karnatakaeducation.org.in/search?q=anganwadi#values -- Arun Ganesh (planemad) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Planemad ___ Talk-in mailing listTalk-in@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- Yogesh K S Sent from an Electronic Device ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
Thanks to the people who pointed me at helpful tools. I have fixed it up as best as I can for the moment - obviously erroneous stretches of coastline have been removed, missing segments have been added where a bridge has been inserted, that kind of thing. Geometrically it looks OK, and it seems very roughly to correspond to the illustrative map on Wikipedia. //colin On 2015-05-28 21:12, Colin Smale wrote: Hi everyone, The boundary relation for Snowdonia National Park is severely messed up at the moment. Is there anyone who can sort this out? I don't mind doing the editing but I kind of resent fixing somebody else's damage and I haven't got a source for the boundary vectors. The latest editor of the relation is SK53 but he is a respected, experienced mapper and I don't believe he would do this. Querying the history on the website just times out so I can't easily see when it went pear-shaped and how it used to be http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 [1] Cheers, Colin ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb [2] Links: -- [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
Hi Colin FYI There appears to be a minor overlap on the Eastern marker: http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=287245 On 29/05/2015 00:46, Colin Smale wrote: Thanks to the people who pointed me at helpful tools. I have fixed it up as best as I can for the moment - obviously erroneous stretches of coastline have been removed, missing segments have been added where a bridge has been inserted, that kind of thing. Geometrically it looks OK, and it seems very roughly to correspond to the illustrative map on Wikipedia. //colin On 2015-05-28 21:12, Colin Smale wrote: Hi everyone, The boundary relation for Snowdonia National Park is severely messed up at the moment. Is there anyone who can sort this out? I don't mind doing the editing but I kind of resent fixing somebody else's damage and I haven't got a source for the boundary vectors. The latest editor of the relation is SK53 but he is a respected, experienced mapper and I don't believe he would do this. Querying the history on the website just times out so I can't easily see when it went pear-shaped and how it used to be http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/287245 Cheers, Colin ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 2015-05-28 22:20, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 05/28/2015 09:56 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote: What I would not support in OSM, and like to outsource to Wikidata or other, is if speakers of these 20 languages were to start assigning name tags in their language to thousands of places in, say, the UK. Where do you draw the limit? Does that mean you agree there should be a limit, or would you allow each and every of the several thousand languages on the planet to add their name tag to the London node? How would disputes be handled? name:en is on thousands of nodes but in many of these places it is not an official or even a minority language but an extra language. Yes, I've thought about that; name:en is very useful for me but ultimately, if the locals don't use it, then it isn't on the ground, and then it shouldn't be in OSM really. So, the map should only be useful to people living in the vicinity of certain places? Like my previously issue, countries which use a different alphabet then yours. Place names in China are ususally only in Chinese, so I should not be able to read them on the map? I say again: the fact that I can not read names in China, Russia, Laos, Israel, most arabic countries is one of my biggest gripes with the map. Why should I not be able to use the map in thos countries and why should people from those countries who probably may not all have a good understanding of the Latin alphabet not be able to use the map where the alphabet is Latin? For that you need transliterated names which probably are not used by locals and are usually not on local street signs so not verifiable. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Zitat von Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de: Habe hier eine merkwürdige Änderung entdeckt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waterway=riverdiff=nextoldid=1176333 Das würde ein weltweites Tagging-Schema zerstören... Wer weiss Genaueres? Nein, aber vielleicht hat das mit ein paar Beiträgen gestern im Forum zu tun: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=505703#p505703 ff. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Habe hier eine merkwürdige Änderung entdeckt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waterway=riverdiff=nextoldid=1176333 Das würde ein weltweites Tagging-Schema zerstören... Wer weiss Genaueres? Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-lv] OSM kopienas sadarbība ar latviskās Vikipēdijas kopienu
Sveiki! Pirmkārt, prieks par interesi. Ja runājam par objektiem, tad šajā septembrī pirmoreiz plānojam piedalīties globālajā Wiki Loves Monuments konkursā [1]. Pasākums notiek vairākos desmitos valstu un tajā tiek fotografēti kultūras pieminekļi. Latvijā mums ir izveidoti saraksti no VKPAI [2], kuros klāt ir linki ērtai ielādei Commons. Bildēt šos objektus var jau tagad, bet ja ir vēlme uz kaut ko pretendēt, tad labākās bildes var pataupīt septembrim un ielādēt tad (bildēt drīkst arī iepriekš). Konkursā uzvarēt var atsevišķa izcila bilde, nevis 30 labas. Mēģināsim piesaistīt kādu sponsoru, lai ar balvām motivētu kūtrākos. Protams, visas bildes ir ar brīvo licenci. Latvijas autortiesību likumā gan ir tāda problēma kā panorāmas brīvības neesamība.[3] Tas neļauj Commons lādēt lielu daļa 20./21. gadsimta ēku un pieminekļu, tā īsti droši var likt tikai vecas baznīcas. Vēl domāsi, kā to risināt, iespējams paši no Commons kopēsim uz latvisko Vikipēdiju, cerībā, ka likums tiks mainīts (ir aktīvisti, kas kvalitatīvi darbojas ES līmenī). Paši šajā sakarā pieteicām manabalss.lv iniciatīvu [4]. Bez kultūras pieminekļiem ilustrācijām vajadzīgi arī Rīgas ielu attēli. Protams, arī par citām pilsētām der, bet raksti ir tikai par dažu pilsētu ielām [5]. Daļai no tām varētu būt problēmas ar temata nozīmīgumu. Protams, arī visādi dabas objekti, ezeri, upes, dižakmeņi, alas. [1] http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org/ [2] https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikiprojekts:Kult%C5%ABras_pieminek%C4%BCi_Vikip%C4%93dij%C4%81_2015/Saraksti [3] https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikiprojekts:Freedom_of_Panorama_un_pieminek%C4%BCu_autorties%C4%ABbas [4] https://manabalss.lv/par-publiskas-telpas-vizualas-attelosanas-brivibu/show [5] https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorija:Ielas_Latvij%C4%81 Mārtiņš 2015-05-28 9:40 GMT+03:00 Viesturs Zarins viest...@gmail.com: +1, mēs labprāt sabildēt *u konkrētas vajadzīgās vietas un saliktu iekš mapillary vai savādāk.* Viesturs On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:03 PM Kārlis lis...@gunta.lv wrote: Labs vakars! Varbūt Vikipēdijas kopiena varētu sataisīt sarakstu ar ielām vai objektiem, kurus nepieciešams nofotografēt? On 2015.05.27. 20:58, Rich wrote: On 21/05/15 18:04, Mārtiņš Bruņenieks wrote: ... * Kartēšanas pasākumi apvienoti ar objektu fotografēšanu. Šeit problēma varētu būt tāda, ka mums no objektiem interesē pāris raksturīgi ielas foto un kaut kādi arhitektūras pieminekļi. Jums tā lieta lēnāka un pamatīgāka. Attēlus var lādēt šeit: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/S%C4%81kumlapa nure. tieši par tēmu. https://tools.wmflabs.org/mapillary-commons/mapillary2commons/ ja vikipēdijai nav kādas ielas bilžu, var pabrowsēt mapillary. ja tur ir, knakš un commonos iekšā :) ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] OSM kopienas sadarbība ar latviskās Vikipēdijas kopienu
+1, mēs labprāt sabildēt *u konkrētas vajadzīgās vietas un saliktu iekš mapillary vai savādāk.* Viesturs On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:03 PM Kārlis lis...@gunta.lv wrote: Labs vakars! Varbūt Vikipēdijas kopiena varētu sataisīt sarakstu ar ielām vai objektiem, kurus nepieciešams nofotografēt? On 2015.05.27. 20:58, Rich wrote: On 21/05/15 18:04, Mārtiņš Bruņenieks wrote: ... * Kartēšanas pasākumi apvienoti ar objektu fotografēšanu. Šeit problēma varētu būt tāda, ka mums no objektiem interesē pāris raksturīgi ielas foto un kaut kādi arhitektūras pieminekļi. Jums tā lieta lēnāka un pamatīgāka. Attēlus var lādēt šeit: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/S%C4%81kumlapa nure. tieši par tēmu. https://tools.wmflabs.org/mapillary-commons/mapillary2commons/ ja vikipēdijai nav kādas ielas bilžu, var pabrowsēt mapillary. ja tur ir, knakš un commonos iekšā :) ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
[talk-ph] Drupal developer for IOM
FYI, IOM is in need of a developer familiar with Drupal who can help develop further the platform communityresponsemap.org https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-2WZQ1DwK_xNEh5Wkp2UndwV3UtTjA1aHVmNGd3ZmFHVFc0/view?usp=sharing Please submit letter and CV to: o...@iom.int for the attention of Chris Lom. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ http://twitter.com/maningsambale -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 27/05/2015 22:56, Andy Mabbett wrote: A demonstrator, using Wikidata labels, is: http://googleknowledge.github.io/qlabel/demo/map/ (choose select language). Coders might enjoy viewing the source code. That's interesting, but seems just to do multiple http transactions to get the names it needs (something that's not really scalable). What I'd typically want to do with wikidata would be something like: 1) define a series of properties that I'm interested in. 2) extract that information from wikidata (either a structured download or from some sort of dump) in one go, not as a series of http transactions. 3) load that into local database tables where it can be easily accessed. (1) might be something like villages in Derbyshire or mills in the Derwent valley or something broader (suppose I wanted to include who owns what building in a database containing OSM data). Unfortunately I don't see this in any sort of sensible format - I just see a bunch of web pages like http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties which isn't really helpful. 2) must be a problem that people have solved already As ever, stackoverflow has some of the answers but some of the questions such as http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28391434/how-to-parse-bigdata-json-file-wikidata-in-c-efficiently suggest to me I really wouldn't start from there if I were you (though http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29886388/get-all-wikidata-items-that-are-an-instance-of-a-given-item is closer). I suspect that these are problems that someone, somewhere has already solved, but I'm not seeing obvious answers that aren't a bit of a cludgy hack, or requires something from Google that's going away in 32 days, or whatever. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-cat] el diari Ara utilitza OSM
Avui el diari Ara bublica un article sobre les eleccions i utilitza mapes basats en l'OSM i CartoDB:http://www.ara.cat/tema_del_dia/sobiranisme-reforca-arreu-del-territori_0_1364863573.html---Free, fast and secure email: https://www.eclipso.eu ___ Talk-cat mailing list Talk-cat@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cat
Re: [Talk-at] Grenzen
On 05/27/2015 09:11 PM, Friedrich Volkmann wrote: Den Satz wir mappen nicht für die Renderer kann ich nicht mehr hören. Für wen mappen wir denn? Für die Nutzer! Es bringt nichts sich auf die Renderer auszureden, wenn die Nutzer den Schaden haben. Viele Fundis unter den Mappern haben einen eingeschränkten Horizont, sie sehen nur bis zur Datenbank, dort hört die Welt auf. Eine Datenbank steht aber nur in der Mitte einer Toolchain, und wenn am Ende nichts rauskommt, dann hat nicht nur der Renderer versagt, sondern das ganze System. Viele Fundis unter den Mappern haben einen eingeschränkten Horizont, sie sehen nur bis zum Rendering auf der openstreetmap.org Karte, dort hört die Welt auf. Ein einzelnes Rendering ist aber nur ein sichtbarer Teil von Openstreetmap, und wenn am Ende nicht das rauskommt, was einzelne Leute sehen wollen, dann hat nicht nur der eine Renderer versagt, sondern das ganze System muss dann angeblich dringend so zurecht gebogen werden, dass man genau das sieht, was der eine eben sehen will. Egal wie man das erreicht und ob andere, das vielleicht gar nicht oder anders sehen wollen. Ich wollt mich hier eigentlich raushalten, aber den Part mit dem eingeschränkten Horizont kann man ganz ähnlich auch in die andere Richtung bringen, ohne dass die Meldung richtiger oder klüger wird. Das bringt uns nicht weiter, ganz im Gegenteil. Es gibt halt bei OSM mehr als ein Interesse und die jeweils anderen sind halt dann automatisch die mit dem beschränkten Horizont. Wird vermutlich nicht immer funktionieren so eine Weltsicht (außer man muss gerade einen Irakkrieg anzetteln, aber darum geht's hier ja gottseidank nicht). Norbert ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
But what exactly is the problem that you're trying to solve with this idea? Database size? There are much bigger contributing factors to database size than this, like rampant data redundancy everywhere, botched mechanical edits etc. Complexity of the UI of editors? I'm sure they can manage to optimize it. Paweł On Wed, May 27, 2015, at 23:13, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, we're seeing more and more name:xx tags on OSM objects. Not only are speakers of widely used languages adding their language tags all over the world; but rising interest in OSM also brings us to the attention of language lovers and speakers of minority languages. The less established a language is, the more committed its few proponents to have their language respected and recorded. The place node for London has 154 name tags as we speak, but there are several thousand languages in use on the planet, so there's still room for enhancement. Not only well-known tourist magnets carry foreign names; some dedicated language mappers have gone over and beyond the call of duty and added, for example, name:ru tags even to small villages: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name%3Aru#map (This is a matter currently under investigation by Data Working Group and it is relatively certain that not all 582,653 name:ru tags will remain.) It is difficult to judge when such foreign names have a right to be there, and when they're just inventions or name translations or transliterations. I guess we'll have to make rules on that somehow, but at the same time I dread doing it, and I wonder: If a place has a wikidata tag, could/should we then simply defer to Wikidata for names in other languages? We are a database of geodata and not one of international cultural heritage; even if London has a name in over 2000 languages, is OSM really the place to record these 2000 names? Would it not be better to record the wikidata link for London, and then (perhaps in co-operation with people at Wikidata) provide means for people doing map rendering to join OSM data with a separately-loaded translation table from Wikidata? We could then limit ourselves to using a name tag for the locally used name, or continue to allow a name:xx but only if these languages were actually used by the local population; throw in an int_name if you want (but some may say that's already an unfair privilege for users of English and the Latin alphabet). Anything else - i.e. names used for a place in other languages than the local ones - would be off-topic for OSM and should be recorded in Wikidata. Do you think Wikidata could play that role, and take the burden off of us? Or is Wikidata not mature enough for that yet, or even unsuitable? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 27 May 2015 at 22:57, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: A possible problem is that currently, Wikidata notability policy[1] means that Wikidata will only contain items for notable objects/entities/concepts. (But note that Wikidata is much, much more inclusive than Wikipedia—Wikidata will contain vastly more items than Wikipedia has articles.) This means that not all buildings, streets, and other objects that we have in OSM will have corresponding Wikidata items. Wikidata (and for that matter the English Wikipedia) notability policies allow for an item for every settlement; even a hamlet of just a few houses. The issues on naming described at the top of this thread are unlikely to apply to small objects, such as individual dwellings and minor roads. That said, Wikidata also allows for an entry for every designated historic monument (listed building), and already has an entry for every street in the Netherlands. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] problemi su mappatura
Il 28 maggio 2015 00:37, Max1234Ita ha scritto: Potrebbe essere utile, forse, chiedere agli autori di JOSM di includerlo tra le sorgenti disponibili a quando risalgono gli strati che vorresti far includere? per la CTR vedo che quello più recente sembra del 2010, secondo me non vale la pena perché se ricalchi quello ottieni solo una copia di dati vecchi, per i sentieri nel bosco magari non è cambiato niente di importante e può essere utile come nel tuo caso se non si vedono dalle foto aeree, ma lo terrei come caso residuale, in generale Bing dovrebbe essere più aggiornato (dove si vede e non c'è scostamento importante) per il caso specifico dei sentieri mi sembra molto molto meglio affidarsi a un sopralluogo (tag: source=survey) così si sa che sono ancora percorribili e si può indicare il livello di difficoltà o se sono segnati e numerati -- Daniele Forsi ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
2015-05-27 23:13 GMT+02:00 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: The place node for London has 154 name tags as we speak, but there are several thousand languages in use on the planet, so there's still room for enhancement. wasn't our credo that what the mappers are interested in will be accepted? There may be several thousand languages in the world but it is not a given that all those will end up in the OSM db sooner or later. Not only well-known tourist magnets carry foreign names; some dedicated language mappers have gone over and beyond the call of duty and added, for example, name:ru tags even to small villages: It is difficult to judge when such foreign names have a right to be there, and when they're just inventions or name translations or transliterations. actually most real names are such, name translations or transliterations. To give a famous example that most people will know: The Colosseo or Anfiteatro di Flavio (someone decided for whatever reason that this was an old_name while formerly it was an alt_name) http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1834818 is called in English: Colosseum and in German Kolosseum or alternatively: en: Flavian Amphitheatre de: Flavisches Amphitheater Those are clearly translations and transliterations (K instead of C) but they are at the same time very established names in these languages. This is equally true for other famous monuments like the fori imperiali (de:Kaiserforen), mercati traiani (de:Trajansmärkte), Bocca della Verità (de: Mund der Wahrheit), Fontana di Trevi (de:Trevibrunnen), but there are also exceptions, e.g. the en:Spanish Steps / de:Spanische Treppe are called Scalinata di Trinità dei Monti in the local language (it is located at piazza di Spagna, that's where the foreign name comes from, while in Italian it is called after to church it leads to). Naturally, OSM has the original name of this world famous monument, but Wikidata hasn't. Wait, it hasn't the original name of this three-star-tourist-attraction, how's that? Have a look here: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q848072 the reason is that the Italian wikipedia hasn't got an article about the steps, they are featured in the article about Piazza di Spagna: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piazza_di_Spagna If we were to massively use wikidata _instead of duplicating some details from there also in our db_ we would have to improve wikidata as well, and impose our entity structure on them, or it won't work in some cases (and if it doesn't work in some case, it doesn't work at all). Another issue I see with wikidata is that it contains information and details about spatial objects, but it doesn't contain the geometry it refers to. Have a look at the Berlin object: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q64 This covers both, an administrative entity and a geographic place in one object (no problem here, but can be a problem elsewhere). This object has a property instance of metropolis http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q200250 I don't want to discuss whether Berlin is a metropolis or not, what I want to point out is that there seem to be different criteria defined for different languages: English http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q200250?setlang=en metropolis very large and significant city or urban area -- generic, has significance as absolute criterion, not related to a region or country, no details in which fields significance is required German http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q200250?setlang=de Metropole Großstadt, die den politischen, sozialen und wirtschaftlichen Mittelpunkt eines Landes bildet -- has to be the political, social and economic centre of a _country_ (relative definition) Italian http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q200250?setlang=it metropoli città di grandi dimensioni la cui area metropolitana raggiunge o supera i cinque milioni di abitanti -- big city whose metropolitan area is = 5 million inhabitants French http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q200250?setlang=fr Métropole No description defined The Italian definition speaks about a metropolitan area, but there is no reference (neither in OSM nor in wikidata) about the extension of this area. The same problem is generally there with population: we cannot see in wikidata to which area the population refers to (and OK, we cannot be 100% sure in OSM that the population really refers to the area that is drawn ;-) ). metropolis is a subclass of big city: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1549591 which defines all cities with more than 100.000 inhabitants as big city (a German definition, which I believe will not hold true for China or other very populated regions). Indeed in OSM we do not have this hard limit (any more): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dcity but rather use the more clever definition: The largest urban settlement or settlements within the territory. My conclusion: I'd rather prefer to keep names in different languages inside OSM, because it makes it clear to which object they refer, while it is less clear
[Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren, vor wenigen Tagen durften wir uns und unser Projektvorhaben in einem ersten Schreiben vorstellen. Nun ist es soweit! Der Fragebogen ist fertig. Wir, die studentische Seminargruppe am Institut für Humangeographie der Goethe-Universität Frankfurt a.M möchten mithilfe dieser empirischen Erhebung zum Thema ?Motivation der OpenStreetMap-Nutzer und Entscheidungsprozesse in der Community? mehr zu OpenStreetMap erfahren. Noch einmal möchten wir Sie, die deutsche OSM-Community für eine Teilnahme an unserer Befragung begeistern. Mit Ihrer Teilnahme unterstützen Sie uns sehr und würden einen großen Beitrag zur wissenschaftlichen Arbeit unserer Seminargruppe leisten. Die Befragung beinhaltet 33 Fragen und kann unter folgenden Link des Geomedienlabors der Universität Frankfurt a.M. aufgerufen werden: http://umfrage.geomedienlabor.de/limesurvey/index.php/451167/lang-de Alle Angaben sind selbstverständlich anonym und können weder von uns noch von Dritten zurückverfolgt werde. Nach der Bearbeitung der Ergebnisse werden wir die Daten und Interpretationen auf die Internetseite des Geomedienlabors mit einer CC3-Lizenz hochladen. Dazu werden Sie im ungefähr im Herbst wieder per Mailingliste benachrichtigt. Wir hoffen, Ihr Interesse an unserer Befragung geweckt zu haben und Sie in den als Teilnehmer begrüßen zu dürfen. Für die Durchführung unserer Befragung möchten wir uns bereits an dieser Stelle bei Ihnen bedanken. Bei Fragen erreichen Sie uns unter der Email-Adresse osm2...@stud.uni-frankfurt.de Mit freundlichen Grüßen David Stoitner Christina Gaiser Annegret Karches Susanne Niebling Paul Martin Max Frick Julian Neugebauer Valentin Hübner ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[OSM-talk] Reporting routing problems
I have encountered some routing errors using our main website, but while trying to report it, I've found nowhere I could do it on the website and Tom said there's only one way to report it - directly at respective routing providers. I will manage that, but I think we should have better integration with them, because average user would be confused. I mean something like: Wrong route? report it! button/link sending the message to the current provider and maybe note on the map (in case this is a tagging problem). -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
2015-05-28 11:58 GMT+02:00 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: I think that OSM is a database of local knowledge and culture, not of remote knowledge and culture added from afar. Therefore I find it out of place for OSM to see that objects like the London node receive a constant flow of edits from people whose only link to London is that they happen to speak a language in which London has a different name. how did you verify this? I feel that there are two totally different planes of editing - one is what's on the ground in London, mapped by people in London, and the other is what name the Martian civilization has chosen to give to London, something in which Londoners have no say whatsoever. You are trying to disqualify foreign languages in London by saying they were Martian, which they surely aren't, I'll bet on this if you like ;-) Are you aware that in London there are more than 250 languages spoken? People living there, not just visitors. Here's a link: http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/regions/languages.htm London is special in this context, as it is a truely global city like there are very few (NYC, Tokyo, Hongkong, maybe a few others like Paris, Dubai, Moskow (?), ...) The name:xx tags are, if you will, the only tags for which the local mappers are not, and cannot be, the ultimate authority. And that's what makes name:xx stick out like a sore thumb for me; in my mind, OSM is first and foremost a project that lets the people control their map, instead of being told and labelled from afar. please acknowledge that there are minorities in every bigger place that do actively speak those languages. They ARE local (often). Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Zusendung der studentischen Befragung zu OSM
Da in einer der letzten Fragen nach den ersten drei Stellen der PLZ gefragt wird, vermutlich 1. Und letztendlich vermisse ich im deutschen Form [1] immer noch eine entsprechende Ankündigung ;-) [1]: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=14 Zitat von Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: wer ist denn die deutsche Community? 1. Mapper die in Deutschland wohnen? 2. Mapper die in Deutschland mappen? 3. Leser von Talk-de / dem deutschen Forum? 4. Mapper die deutsch sprechen? Gruß, Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 28/05/2015 11:20, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: El Jueves 28. mayo 2015 10.59.21 Steve Doerr escribió: There might be a case for adding pronunciations (of 'difficult' names at least) to the OSM database. Someone must have proposed a tagging scheme for this, surely? Yup. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Phonetics name:pronunciation, as mentioned on that page, is in use in a few problems, and would surely solve the Slough problem: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10021975/history (though John Betjeman's idea might have been better) Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMdata / OSMbase instance
Hi, 2015-05-28 12:42 GMT+02:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com: I'm following discussions on several mailing lists and an idea is starting to form to help solve some of our growing pains. I think it would be interesting to contemplate setting up our own instance of WikiData. Wikidata could then link to entries in it and vice versa for the items which are 1:1 matches. We could have dedicated entities for streets, for addresses, for PT stops and their surroundings, for PT lines. From there we could link to objects in OSM. The problem with that is that when ways become split the editor needs to decide whether the OSMdata link is still valid. Same deal for merges. Of course, at the moment we use relations for some of these and we could create new types of relations for others, but they are deemed too complicated and they are rather fragile. Also the tendency seems to be to abolish stuff like associatedStreet and simply go the way of repeating data over and over. Or to say: do spatial queries and hope for the best. So, on the one hand I see it as a bridge to Wikidata, on the other I see it as a way to solve some growing pains we're having to maintain more and more data we're amassing. I agree. this was my proposal from September last year: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2014-September/070871.html Of course the editing/syncing part is difficult but maybe it can initially tried just as viewing tool. Another relevant link: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/OSMdata:_a_Wikidata-like_editor_for_OpenStreetMap C ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap
This could be big. Remember that Mozilla Location Services does not provide Wi-Fi data download due to privacy concerns (Which is BS in my opinion). But with data downloads available, one can develop off-line location services that could very well complement one of our selling points, that is full off-line operation. I wonder whether it's very hard to hack into location services of Android to seed GPS location with this data for faster fix (assuming root is available). Michał On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: OpenBMap It's similar to Google's location services or Mozilla's location service, but free. You can make use of it as a location provider in Android using the OpenBMap plugin for microG unified NLP. And you can contribute data as well using the Radiobeacon app. Seems to be in it's very early stages right now, but could be a real powerhouse with a little extra effort. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-cz] LPIS: Tráva na orné, Úhor, Jiná trvalá kultura
Dne 28.5.2015 07:46, Marián Kyral napsal(a): -- Původní zpráva -- Od: Pavel Machek pa...@ucw.cz Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic talk-cz@openstreetmap.org Datum: 27. 5. 2015 23:34:09 Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] LPIS: Tráva na orné, Úhor, Jiná trvalá kultura On Wed 2015-05-27 21:56:35, Marián Kyral wrote: Ahoj, v LPIS se objevily nějaké novinky a chtěl jsem se poradit, jak to nejlépe namapovat. A pokud máte i další, nenamapované kultury, tak je přidejte. Martin mi poslal nějaké patche a koncem týdne bych chtěl vydat aktualizovanou verzi Traceru. Takže prozatím známé novinky: *tráva na orné [1]* - tohle si představuji jako třeba jetel na poli - pořád to je pole, jen se pěstuje tráva - navrhuji /landuse=farmland, crop=grass/ No nevim; nebylo by lepsi landuse=meadow, note=meadow on farmland? Jak v terenu poznam jestli je to louka nebo trava na orne pude? Těžko říct. Asi stejný případ je, když zemědělec zorá louku a na rok dva tam něco zasadí. Koukám do zdrojáků, trávu na orné už teď tagujeme jako landuse=farmland, crop=grass. Ono v dlouhodobým horizontu tam pravděpodobně častěji bude pole než louka :-) *úhor [2]* - - Dočasně neobdělávané pole - mapování /landuse=farmland/, ale ještě by to asi chtělo něco k tomu.* crop=none? crop=not_now? /crop=no/ vypadá docela slibně. Souhlasím s landuse=farmland, crop=no. Zůstává nám jiná trvalá kultura, ale těch jsem viděl tak málo, že jsem nevypozoroval co přesně to má být. Martin ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
W dniu 28.05.2015 12:41, Mateusz Konieczny napisał(a): Further complicating such edits by moving it to Wikidata or somewhere else is in my opinion a bad idea. We would rather retrieve it from Wikidata, because many places are already there! Nova Scotia? - you're welcome: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1952 With a editor completion you could have much more not going anywhere outside: - international name variations (including polish) - direct link to a rich objects database (with a broad context relations - even outside the scope of a GIS if you need it) Speaking of relations - there's even the link to OSM object already: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/390558 So what's the problem? It is also a bad idea to add thousands of names without a really good source and verification. Especially automated adding name:xx based on transliteration alone is a terrible idea that should be reverted once spotted - sometimes there is a separate name in foreign language, with difference going beyond transliteration. The data in Wikimedia projects should be verifiable, so this would be just a double check. We can do it, sure, but why not to start with something rather than from zero? What may be done is to improve editor interface to do not display 100+ name:xx tags for places like London. It would be nice improvement indeed - Wikimedia services already hides most of interwiki links - but it has nothing to do with Wikidata as a helper for OSM objects names and categorization. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
Ciao, Il 8 maggio 2015 08:51, Michele Mondelli mithenks...@gmail.com ha scritto: Buongiorno Cristian! Sicuramente il patrocinio di Wikimedia Italia è una cosa molto bella ed importante! Io sto aspettando l'approvazione ufficiale di tutto il progetto da parte dell'Università. Tra l'altro, oltre a OSMIT 2015 ci saranno altre iniziative legate agli OpenData, OpenSource, etc. Ci sono novità? Io sono sempre disponibile per un Hangout, se servisse, anche altre persone su questa lista hanno dato disponibiità per fare mente locale insieme. Ciao, C ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Autocariste, dépôt de bus, de train
Le 27 mai 2015 à 17:28, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft jb.holcr...@gmail.com a écrit : Le débat du nom reviens souvent, mais la règle que j'ai compris est systématiquement la même : il faut éviter au maximum les noms qui n'en sont pas et privilégier les tags, parfois le nom n'est pas du tout original cimetière de ville. Justement, quelle est la règle et qui l'a inventée, qui l'a (éventuellement) votée, qui la soutient et quelle est la formulation officielle ? Je ne l'ai jamais vu mentionnée sur la liste en anglais. Vu l'imprécision lamentable du vocabulaire (description qui serait générée par un processus de dénomination !?), cela me paraît, jusqu'à plus ample informé, une éruption de geekisme qui voudrait appliquer à la vie réelle des méthodes de codage qui traquent les redondances. Je ne vois pourquoi on effacerait cimetière municipal, alors que la règle d'or est de se caler, si possible, sur ce qui est inscrit sur la porte. Il y a des valeurs qui précisent les autres catégories de cimetière, mais on pourrait trouver des exceptions et on aurait un objet non identifié. Pour moi, la règle de base est que si OSM n'est pas qu'une carte, cela ne veut pas dire que, dans les déclinaisons basiques, on doive faire appel pour certains objets à une extraction et pas pour d'autres. D'ailleurs, les objets ont des noms et des niveaux de sens variables. Leurs noms sont soumis à l'évolution historique et à la mode. Bonjour, les mises à jour ! Il y a un Hôtel de Ville (un bâtiment) qui est le siège d'une collectivité nommée Ville de Paris qui se fait connaître auprès des habitants sous le nom de Mairie de Paris, ce qui n'est pas, ici, un nom de lieu. Le plus simple n'est pas pas de reproduire, sans se faire des noeuds au cerveau, ce qu'il y a d'écrit sur la façade et qui sera, peut-être, demain, Maison du Grand Paris. Christian R. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 11:13:11PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: we're seeing more and more name:xx tags on OSM objects. [...] Generally I don't think having names in different languages on OSM objects is wrong. We have done it that way for a long time and, lets face it, as long as we allow it for some objects and languages, people will add names to other objects and in other languages, too. Moving responsibility to a different database is nice in theory, but not in practice. The common mapper will not understand why *his* language should not appear, but only some other and he will not understand how to edit a different database (especially not wikidata with its horrible interface) unless we build something for him to make it easy and seamless. Not only well-known tourist magnets carry foreign names; some dedicated language mappers have gone over and beyond the call of duty and added, for example, name:ru tags even to small villages: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name%3Aru#map (This is a matter currently under investigation by Data Working Group and it is relatively certain that not all 582,653 name:ru tags will remain.) Thats a different matter. While there are many names for London in different languages, I don't think there are special Russian names for half a million places on Earth. Chances are they are the result of automatic transliteration. And results of automatic processes should not be mapped for obvious reasons. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.jochentopf.com/ +49-351-31778688 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Hi, On 05/28/2015 10:50 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: The place node for London has 154 name tags as we speak, but there are several thousand languages in use on the planet, so there's still room for enhancement. wasn't our credo that what the mappers are interested in will be accepted? No, that would be stretching the definition of credo. I think there's a high level of agreement for stuff that's on the ground and not of a too temporary nature has a place in OSM. Stuff that's not on the ground - e.g. the name given to a place by a culture thousands of miles away - can occasionally be allowed but there are limits. actually most real names are such, name translations or transliterations. To give a famous example that most people will know: Yup, a speaker of English will come home from a Rome visit and say I was at the Colosseum. - They will not, to repeat my favourite example, come home from a visit to Paris and say I was at the New Bridge. But let's not get sidetracked, that's a different discussion from the Wikidata question. I just hope that Wikidata doesn't list New Brige as the English name of Pont Neuf or else they have a problem ;) If we were to massively use wikidata _instead of duplicating some details from there also in our db_ we would have to improve wikidata as well, It is my impression that a large proportion of name:xx tags in OSM are added by naming specialists who do little else than large scale name additions; it would probably not be too much to ask for them to indulge Wikidata instead of OSM. and impose our entity structure on them, or it won't work in some cases (and if it doesn't work in some case, it doesn't work at all). I don't agree. If we could offload 99.99% of all name:xx tags to Wikidata and keep them only in edge cases like your Scalinata di Trinità dei Monti, why not? Why would a few cases in which name:xx tags remain ruin the whole scheme? I don't want to discuss whether Berlin is a metropolis or not, what I want to point out is that there seem to be different criteria defined for different languages: You're listing some interesting shortcomings of Wikidata that I weren't aware of. However these would not, in my opinion, bar us from using Wikidata as a name repository for rendering; if a mapper is of the opinion that no matching Wikidata object exists for an OSM feature, then they shouldn't use a wikidata tag, that much is clear! I agree that tag lists of hundreds of names in different languages aren't very handy to look through, They're also very hard to verify; and verifiability is important for OSM. I've seen small villages in England which had a name and a name:ru tag, and the only occurrence of the name:ru tag on a web search was on a dubious Russian weather and events in random city page. When is a name a name? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
Buongiorno, sono in contatto con l'Università per capire quali date ci propongono e il tipo di spazi. La settimana prossima vado a parlare con il Comune, per presentare l'iniziativa e parlare di eventuale patrocinio. Mi piacerebbe molto fare un hangout la settimana prossima, se volete propongo un paio di giorni/orari e vediamo chi può partecipare. ciao, Il giorno 28 maggio 2015 11:33, Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com ha scritto: Ciao, Il 8 maggio 2015 08:51, Michele Mondelli mithenks...@gmail.com ha scritto: Buongiorno Cristian! Sicuramente il patrocinio di Wikimedia Italia è una cosa molto bella ed importante! Io sto aspettando l'approvazione ufficiale di tutto il progetto da parte dell'Università. Tra l'altro, oltre a OSMIT 2015 ci saranno altre iniziative legate agli OpenData, OpenSource, etc. Ci sono novità? Io sono sempre disponibile per un Hangout, se servisse, anche altre persone su questa lista hanno dato disponibiità per fare mente locale insieme. Ciao, C ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- *Michele Mondelli* ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Autocariste, dépôt de bus, de train
Bonjour, Le 28 mai 2015 11:36, Christian Rogel christian.ro...@club-internet.fr a écrit : Le 27 mai 2015 à 17:28, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft jb.holcr...@gmail.com a écrit : Le débat du nom reviens souvent, mais la règle que j'ai compris est systématiquement la même : il faut éviter au maximum les noms qui n'en sont pas et privilégier les tags, parfois le nom n'est pas du tout original cimetière de ville. Justement, quelle est la règle et qui l'a inventée, qui l'a (éventuellement) votée, qui la soutient et quelle est la formulation officielle ? Je ne l'ai jamais vu mentionnée sur la liste en anglais. Vu l'imprécision lamentable du vocabulaire (description qui serait générée par un processus de dénomination !?), cela me paraît, jusqu'à plus ample informé, une éruption de geekisme qui voudrait appliquer à la vie réelle des méthodes de codage qui traquent les redondances. Je ne vois pourquoi on effacerait cimetière municipal, alors que la règle d'or est de se caler, si possible, sur ce qui est inscrit sur la porte. Je n'ai pas l'impression que Christian disait le contraire. A mon sens il parlait des noms donnés pour décrire quelque chose sans rapport avec un quelconque nom identifiable sur le terrain. Si cimetière municipal est bien le nom inscrit, alors oui il a tout à fait sa place pour le tag name. Romain ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
W dniu 28.05.2015 10:50, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a): My conclusion: I'd rather prefer to keep names in different languages inside OSM, because it makes it clear to which object they refer, while it is less clear from wikidata. Also because the structure of osm and wikidata is not the same, it will lead to problems (either we'll be/risk making links that are not precisely 1:1 or we'll have to change the structure to meet (either in wikidata or in OSM)). Placenames are geographic information that do belong into OSM IMHO. I was sure that in every two (or more) projects there will be some differences and that's why I said about forking Wikidata - that way we would gain (wild guess) 95% of existing objects from the start and we would still be able to have local (delta or differential) version for remaining few percent. It's tempting to have control over everything we use, but the NIH ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here ) syndrome is counterproductive in the longer run. And while OSM is big enough now, it will be much bigger in next years (still many parts of the world outside the West are poorly mapped!) and using already mature, rich, free-licensed and community-controlled resources would likely help us with that. Every big project will have to deal with inconsistencies or ambiguities and there's no escape - not because we're careless, but the world is complicated. So better to prepare for real global mapping than to be afraid of the risks. It's too late! We're not just a London-centered street map anymore, so let's face the global class of problems. I agree that tag lists of hundreds of names in different languages aren't very handy to look through, but IMHO we should resolve this in the GUI (display name translations in the editors closed so you have to click on an arrow to unfold the list, or sth like this, and/or let the user set a list of languages he want't to see the names in and hide the rest under a single line like i18n names, 182 tags, etc.) I prefer GUI for linking the name of the proper Wikidata entry with the possibility of: - forking the object name into our diff database - merging local and Wikidata data if/once they're ready to do it. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Hi, On 05/28/2015 10:19 AM, Paweł Paprota wrote: But what exactly is the problem that you're trying to solve with this idea? I think that OSM is a database of local knowledge and culture, not of remote knowledge and culture added from afar. Therefore I find it out of place for OSM to see that objects like the London node receive a constant flow of edits from people whose only link to London is that they happen to speak a language in which London has a different name. I feel that there are two totally different planes of editing - one is what's on the ground in London, mapped by people in London, and the other is what name the Martian civilization has chosen to give to London, something in which Londoners have no say whatsoever. The name:xx tags are, if you will, the only tags for which the local mappers are not, and cannot be, the ultimate authority. And that's what makes name:xx stick out like a sore thumb for me; in my mind, OSM is first and foremost a project that lets the people control their map, instead of being told and labelled from afar. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSMdata / OSMbase instance
I'm following discussions on several mailing lists and an idea is starting to form to help solve some of our growing pains. I think it would be interesting to contemplate setting up our own instance of WikiData. Wikidata could then link to entries in it and vice versa for the items which are 1:1 matches. We could have dedicated entities for streets, for addresses, for PT stops and their surroundings, for PT lines. From there we could link to objects in OSM. The problem with that is that when ways become split the editor needs to decide whether the OSMdata link is still valid. Same deal for merges. Of course, at the moment we use relations for some of these and we could create new types of relations for others, but they are deemed too complicated and they are rather fragile. Also the tendency seems to be to abolish stuff like associatedStreet and simply go the way of repeating data over and over. Or to say: do spatial queries and hope for the best. So, on the one hand I see it as a bridge to Wikidata, on the other I see it as a way to solve some growing pains we're having to maintain more and more data we're amassing. Polyglot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk