from:"Don"


It was suggested as far back as 2003.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:18 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:


On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:20:24 -0600 mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:

The TC going electronic was covered well in the minutes,


The TC going eletcronic was suggested at last year's (Jan. 2008)  
winter meeting (at CBSP) but was never acted on until it was brought  
up again this year.


--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] A bit of history for everyone :


It's clearly not that simple.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:


On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:23:09 -0600 donarb...@mac.com wrote:

It was suggested as far back as 2003.



Then, it's about time we acted on it then.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] A bit of history for everyone :


Way back when, I thought we did poll the membership.

Personally I don't see a huge issue here:

1) A .PDF is practically a byproduct of digital editing.

2) Our publication is thought to be public sensitive, IOW some worry  
about copyright. However there are many methods to protect online  
documents. My favorite example was used by a company to protect online  
digital books I used to purchase and read: the password to get the  
book downloaded was your credit card number. You weren't going to  
share it. (clearly there are reasons nowadays NOT to use this method).


3) it had been discussed at one point that only back issues would be  
available online.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:52 AM, John Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net  
wrote:


I agree. It is clearly not so simple. This has been an ongoing topic  
for yearsand like the Land Fund issue , it is something that  
many have a strong opinion about.it might have been a prudent  
idea to poll the membership prior to taking action.



Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:35 AM, Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com wrote:

It's clearly not that simple.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:23:09 -0600 donarb...@mac.com wrote:
It was suggested as far back as 2003.


Then, it's about time we acted on it then.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] Apathy, Entitlement, and Participation


What she said!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

At this point you can get hard copies of the Caver by mail or get  
internet copies instead by signing up.  If you do not sign up, you  
will continue to get a hard copy.  The internet site is not  
accessible except to members, in theory.


Funny how organizations don't do what you want or read your mind.   
Most of us cannot attend every TSA meeting, but attending when you  
can means you have a voice that matters and that influences the  
organization.


At some times TSA has a some difficulty finding Caver editors,  
finding people to run for office, and finding members to fill  
committee posts.  But it is very easy to find members with opinions,  
and cavers who think it is all being done wrong.


TSA is a member organization, and business is carried out in  
meetings.  Because members don't want to come to meetings, TSA is  
spending quite a bit of money yearly to hold elections by mail so  
members do not have to come to vote at TCR or at the meeting.  I am  
not convinced that is money well spent.  And I certainly do not  
think more business should be carried out by polling the membership  
in some way other than in a meeting.


TSA members have the right to participate, influence policy, and  
vote.  All they need to do is come to the meetings.  Or we can carry  
out long conversations about how things should be done by sending  
emails and hope the officers feel pressured to do what we want.


I am gratified to see people care about the TSA and about the  
Caver.  But I am weary of this conversation, and suggest people  
attend the Spring TSA meeting in Kerrville to make their views heard.

Re: [Texascavers] why join the TSA?


A vote in TSA affairs should be pretty high on the list.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:


What else am I getting?

Cave acquisition and management?

Fellowship?

Education?

Cave files and book publications?

Public relations?


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Re: [Texascavers] why join the TSA?


Exactly.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Joe Ranzau jran...@gmail.com wrote:

Mixon elegantly cuts to the bone for us...  I've been pondering this  
for years, ever since my time as an offer, when someone asked me  
what their membership in the TSA got them.  Aside from the Texas  
Caver, there is not much that is not already being done well by  
another organization.  The projects stood out as something the TSA  
facilitated.  Taking a closer look, the projects need the TSA a lot  
less than the TSA needs the projects.  Any project in existance now  
and the recent past would exist easily without TSA.  This past year  
the TSA has funded repairs at Honey Creek, donated to TCMA and  
donated to the ICS, none of which are TSA projects.  The spring  
convention is a great thing but TCR proves it is easily possible  
without the TSA.


So then what is the TSA?  Well, quite frankly it is whatever you  
make it.  YOU being the key!  I recall a good turnout at the TSA  
meeting including several of the vocal posters infavor of  this  
here, but most people were not there.  What does that mean? Well, it  
pretty much means that you don't get a say until the next meeting or  
election.  Tough cookies.


Gill has noble intentions of including everyone, sounds great and  
might even work in the world of PDF, it damn near bankrupted TSA  
last time he was incharge.  Something about not collecting dues from  
anyone and then getting bailouts from the Grottos...  Printing was/ 
is expensive...


But, the thing is Gill did it, made the TSA into his vision.  Mark  
ran unopposed for election and I suspect if the election were today  
no one would run.  Basically the TSA is whatever Mark and the other  
officers decide it should be.  Sure, they are accountable to the  
membership, but until the membership is willing to do something, our  
opinions don't mean much.


I have a close friend who called to complain about all of this, they  
want their printed caver, which is all fine and good, are they going  
to do anything besides complain, doubtful.


I actually disagree with Mark, I want a printed caver, but I'm not  
willing to pay much more and I'm sure as hell not going to run for  
office or editor so I don't have many options other than to offer  
advice and deal with it.


My advice mirrors Mixon, if we go digital then we need to  
drastically cut dues.  $5 or $10 sounds good to me...


So, other than wasting more electrons, my point is if this bothers  
you, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BESIDES COMPLAINING!  Attend a meeting,  
run for office, or deal with it.


:-)

Joe





On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mixon Bill  
bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
It's a pretty sad state of affairs in Texas if the Texas Caver's  
circulation is so low that it can't go bulk rate. Hell, when I was  
in Chicago, the _grotto's_ newsletter was sent bulk rate.


With all due respect (and then some) to brother Gillum, _my_  
membership in the TSA _is_ primarily a subscription to the Texas  
Caver. What else am I getting?


Cave acquisition and management? There are two (well, one and a  
half) other groups in Texas I can support to do that.


Fellowship? That's done better by TCR. As Gill points out, it could  
perhaps be done better by the TSA, too, as far as unaffiliated  
cavers are concerned, but that needn't cost money.


Education? Well, there's the spring convention, but that's meant to  
be self-supporting; there isn't even a TSA member discount.


Cave files and book publications? The Texas Speleological Survey  
does that.


Public relations? Well, there are things to be done there in the  
fields of conservation, etc., but the TSA couldn't spend $2000 a  
year on that if it tried.


If the expense of the Texas Caver is eliminated by going on-line,  
then reasonable TSA dues seem to me to be about $5 a year, based on  
the money I can see it spending usefully without duplicating what  
other groups are doing (or simply passing on my money to those other  
groups).


Actually, to cut costs I wouldn't mind at all if the Texas Caver  
were produced less expensively, without the color covers, the saddle- 
stitching, and all that. It's the material in it that counts. But  
some contributors might be lost if the quality of production  
declined. The fact that any copy I print myself will be of less  
printing quality than what I'm getting now doesn't bother me  
particularly. (Gill may have an 11x17 color laser printer and a  
saddle-stapler, but I don't.) But if I'm paying for it, I want it.  
-- Mixon

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You may reply to the address this message
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[Texascavers] [Bitching the Caver]

Granted no agenda was published for the meeting, but this has been an  
issue for years. Mark, put this issue in the Caver and an agenda for  
the next meeting of the TSA.


Don't bitch if you don't vote.

Apathy is what happened to the TSA.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [Texascavers] [Bitching the Caver]

Wonderful suggestions all. Remember them (and all the others from  
decades past) at the next TSA meeting.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:


On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:11:11 -0800 l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:

Go to the TSA
Store and purchase a subscription.


I figure from what Lee Jay said at the TSA meeting about traffic  
being very low at the TSA Store. I suppose we can solve two problems  
at once by using the TSA store for TC hard copy subscriptions ...


--
Lyndon Tiu

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[Texascavers] [For David][Researchers develop higher-efficiency LEDs]

2009-01-14 Thread Don Arburn


http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/14/researchers-develop-higher-efficiency-leds/

Researchers develop higher-efficiency LEDs

Re: [ot_caving] FW: Neil Armstrong

2009-01-09 Thread Don Cooper

NICE STORY!

Too bad it NEVER HAPPENED.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/mrgorsky.asp

-WaV
(the eternal skeptic)

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.comwrote:

  What a GREAT short story. If true, Mrs. Gorsky must have been physic or
 was in no hurry.

 Fritz


  --

 *From:* Chris Young
 *Sent:* Friday, January 09, 2009 10:56 AM
 *To:* 'cline_yo...@ajg.com'; 'Mark Davis'; 'Jonathan Appel'; Fritz Holt
 *Subject:* FW: Neil Armstrong



 Pretty funny!



 *Christopher E. Young, CPCU CIC**
 **Town  Country Insurance Agency**
 **10575 Katy Freeway Suite 150**
 **Houston**, Texas 77024**
 **Phone (713) 461-8979**
 **Fax (713) 464-2674**
 **Email **cyo...@townandcountryins.com* cyo...@townandcountryins.com

 *Thank you for doing business with Town  Country Insurance.*









   --

 *From:* Jay Cooley [mailto:jcoo...@maxicorp.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, January 09, 2009 7:06 AM
 *To:* Chris Young; Dad; lee ball; Mike Olmstead; Richard Waters; steve
 merry
 *Subject:* FW: Neil Armstrong





 -Original Message-
 *From:* L. D. Simon Jr. [mailto:catf...@ctesc.net]
 *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:06 PM
 *To:* Tim Dockal; Linda Fischer; Lance Self; Jay Cooley; Doug Lozano;
 Cheryl (Sissie) Smith; Bonnie Schmidt; Barbara Landry(home)
 *Subject:* Fw: Neil Armstrong



 - Original Message -

 *From:* Sarah Adams whiskeyriver2...@yahoo.com

 *To:* Sarah Adams whiskeyriver2...@yahoo.com

 *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:13 AM

 *Subject:* Neil Armstrong



 Subject:  Neil Armstrong

 MOON TALK.  GUARANTEED  TO  MAKE  YOU SMILE


 ON JULY 20,  1969, AS COMMANDER OF THE APOLLO 11 LUNAR MODULE, NEIL
 ARMSTRONG
 WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO SET FOOT  ON THE MOON.  HIS FIRST WORDS AFTER
 STEPPING
 ON THE MOON, 'THAT'S ONE SMALL STEP FOR MAN, ONE GIANT LEAP FOR
 MANKIND,' WERE TELEVISED TO EARTH AND HEARD BY MILLIONS.

 BUT JUST BEFORE HE REENTERED THE LANDER, HE  MADE THE ENIGMATIC REMARK
 'GOOD LUCK, MR. GORSKY.'

 MANY PEOPLE AT NASA THOUGH IT WAS A CASUAL REMARK CONCERNING SOME RIVAL
 SOVIET
 COSMONAUT.

 HOWEVER, UPON CHECKING, THERE WAS NO GORSKY IN EITHER THE RUSSIAN OR
 AMERICAN
 SPACE PROGRAMS.

 OVER THE YEARS MANY PEOPLE QUESTIONED ARMSTRONG AS TO WHAT THE  'GOOD LUCK,
 MR.  GORSKY,'  STATEMENT MEANT, BUT ARMSTRONG ALWAYS JUST SMILED.

 ON JULY 5, 1995, IN TAMPA BAY, FLORIDA, WHILE ANSWERING QUESTIONS
 FOLLOWING A SPEECH, A REPORTER BROUGHT UP THE 26-YEAR OLD QUESTION TO
 ARMSTRONG.  THIS TIME HE FINALLY RESPONDED.

 MR. GORSKY HAD DIED, SO NEIL ARMSTRONG FELT HE COULD ANSWER THE QUESTION.

 IN 1938, WHEN HE WAS A KID IN A SMALL MID-WEST TOWN, HE WAS PLAYING
 BASEBALL
 WITH A FRIEND IN THE BACKYARD.

 HIS FRIEND HIT THE BALL, WHICH LANDED IN HIS NEIGHBOR'S YARD BY THE BEDROOM
 WINDOWS.

 HIS NEIGHBORS WERE MR. AND MRS. GORSKY.

 AS HE  LEANED DOWN TO PICK UP THE BALL, YOUNG ARMSTRONG HEARD MRS. GORSKY
 SHOUTING AT MR. GORSKY.

 'SEX!  YOU WANT SEX?!  YOU'LL GET  SEX WHEN THE KID NEXT DOOR WALKS ON
 THE MOON!'

 TRUE  STORY..

Re: [ot_caving] Palin vs. Kennedy

2009-01-09 Thread Don Cooper

I liked the parody of the MCain / Palin poster:  *Geezer / Dingbat*.
-WaV

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

 At 03:01 PM 1/9/2009, Louise Power wrote:

 I believe Palin's 15 minutes are up.


 Naw! We haven't seen the end of her. She's still good for many more laughs.
 Her clock only has 15 minutes on it; it keeps going around and around--just
 as she does.

 Blessed are those who go in circles, for they shall be called the Big
 Wheels.

 --Ediger

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[ot_caving] LED Question

2009-01-05 Thread Don Cooper

Does anyone understand what the lumen output would be for 1mcf, 5mm,
white LEDs?
I'm examining the possibility of creating a 1000 LED array, estimating a
power usage of 30watts.
-WaV

Re: [ot_caving] computer news - memory prices

2009-01-02 Thread Don Cooper

Wow!
I remember that I thought I was getting an incredible deal when I found one
for $19.99, 18 months ago.  Maybe at the time it was...

-WaV

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net wrote:

   In the fast-disappearing Circuit City stores, I found a 2-GB SD Memory
 Card, MSRP $39.99, for...$2.96.  I bought several!

Alex

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Re: [ot_caving] computer news - memory prices

2008-12-31 Thread Don Cooper

ANOTHER Caveat -
And this especially applies to VISTA (Oh, I forgot they call it Mojave
now):
Many peripherals have no drivers written (yet) to handle 64 bit operating
systems.
One of the presents my brother gave to himself and his home entertainment
system on Xmas was a new HP computer to go with his 42 HP plasma flat
screen panel.
He got gobs of memory, and to be able to address those gobs, he had the
computer pre-installed with Vista 64  to handle 5 or 6 gigs. (one gig, I
believe is dedicated to video shadowing)
As his flat screen did not come with a broadcast HD receiver (ATSC
compatible or something like that?) he figured he'd finally overcome that
shorfall with a HD TV card in his 'television computer'.   So after months
of furtive dismissal of my dissaproval of Vista (and I've never been a
microsoft fan) now he's got egg on his face.  Maybe he'll have better luck
with a Hauppage card - but the one he bought flat out didnt work and the
customer service reps he reached didn't seem to understand the issue.
The internal BlueRay player - made by LG - did work.  However, older
releases of movies seem to employ 'dithering' to hike that resolution up to
1240 x 1080p - so the disk might BE B.R. but if you look close enough you
can tell that bit by bit - its only been extrapolated from DVD format.
-Happy New Year
 WaV

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote:

 For most computer users, 2 gig of ram seems to be the sweet spot, this
 applies to most power users.  The only caveat to that is anyone doing
 a lot of graphic or  work, photoshop, etc need a lot more.

 And you are correct, XP (32 bit) which is most of the XP installs, can
 only address a max of 3.5gb of ram.  Anything more is a huge waste.
 This applies to all operating systems that are 32 bit.  Also, before
 you run out and upgrade your XP or Vista to 64 bit, keep in mind, your
 motherboard/processor have to support 64 bit as well, or things won't
 work as you want.

 Mac users need not worry, OSX is all 64 bit :)

 Charles

 On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:44 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:
  Check out some of these memory prices on a 1 gig stick of DDR2:
 
  http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=720
 
  Most are in the $ 15 to $ 20 range.
 
  I don't quiet understand how RAM is not affected much by inflation.
 
  If you bought a desktop computer a year or 2 ago, it probably
  only came with 1 gig of DDR2.Right?
 
  At those prices, why not put 4 gigs of RAM in your computer.
  It is a very simple upgrade.
 
  I believe that most computer users of XP will not be able to use
  more than 4 gigs, and probably wouldn't need to anyways.
 
  Just 10 years ago, I was doing computer drafting at a research
  engineering company and my PC only had 128 kilobytes of RAM,
  and we were excited when the company doubled the RAM to 256 K.
 
  David Locklear
 
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Re: [ot_caving] Dental Tourism in Mexico ?

2008-12-30 Thread Don Cooper

Do you mean 'dentist' or do you mean DENTIST?   Oh - you mentioned molars
removed...
By 'molars' I'm sure that you don't mean that you want your MOLARS
removed!
Yes.  Much cheaper on either end

-WaV

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:46 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am considering visiting a dentist in Mexico.


 http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/travel/destinations/related/mexico/4470160.html

 Does anybody know anybody who has tried this?

 I would think it would be safer and cheaper to travel deep into Mexico
 and not use a dentist
 at the border.Maybe San Luis Potosi ?

 I need to have what is left of my back 2 molars removed.

 I should at least get them x-ray it and clean them and get an estimate.
 Right?

 Ref:

 http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-07-28-dental-tourism_x.htm

 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/12/20/121018/65

 David Locklear

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Re: [Texascavers] Strange Christmas letter

2008-12-30 Thread Don Cooper

Was it something about how an assistant accompanying a reformed alcoholic
who would fart and drool and do other gross things to illustrate the
depravity of unbridled hedonism???
I've been sent one like that once...

-WaV

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Ron Miller rons...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I got the strangest Christmas letter that is obviously made up to be
 humorous and sent anomalously. It is mailed from Fort Worth to me at my
 current Driftwood address. The only lists I am on is the Texas Cavers
 membership and NSS list. It is composed using a typewriter and has a photo
 of a house. It is signed Billy Earl, SR.

 Anyone else get this greeting also?


 Ron Miller

Re: [ot_caving] OT - Radio Flyer Wagon

2008-12-29 Thread Don Cooper

No.  I put a piece of foam rubber in it though.  It made rides down the hill
more comfortable.
Me and my brother figured how to steer it from sitting inside it with the
'tow handle' turned backwards and we'd ride it down the biggest hill within
a mile of our house.  It was fun as hell, fast and dangerous.  Eventually we
tore the suspension from the bottom.  My grandfather welded it back together
with bracing and made it about 10lbs heavier.

I never could figure out WHY it was called Radio Flyer.  It could only
momentarily fly in the first moments of the very worst accidents and it had
no freakin' radio!!

We made a joke out of it.  We'd call the pet turtle radioactive wings, the
sandbox frequency stratosphere and the dog oscillating airhead.

-WaV


On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:38 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you remember your little red wagon from your childhood?

 Did it have cup-holders, upholstered seats, iPod dock, speakers,
 seat-belts?


 http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/TECH/12/24/radio.flyer.wagon/RadioFlyer3.jpg

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[Texascavers] Not Exactly Cave Related, But Mexico and Geology Related...

2008-12-24 Thread Don Cooper

About the distance between Uvalde and Del Rio, west of Del Rio - there's a
concentration of what appear to be volcanic craters.
I was doing a 'satellite geology field trip' of the Del Rio area and noticed
what looks very much like craters and possible calderas.
I hoped that perhaps someone familiar with this part of northern Mexico
might know a little about this area.
Is this an igneous region or it possibly a mix of limestone and extinct
volcanoes?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=qhl=engeocode=q=sll=29.609282,-102.531967sspn=0.269835,0.4422ie=UTF8ll=29.382175,-102.513428spn=0.27044,0.4422t=hz=11
Thanks,
WaV

Fwd: [Texascavers] Lebanon's Jeita Caves on list for New 7 Wonders of Nature :

2008-12-22 Thread Don Cooper

Lech is a wonder all right.  But don't you think this wonders of the world
is just a bit shaded by touristical B.S.?
Trying to get this thing nominated or that thing recognized seems an awful
lot like a form of politicizing to me.
I mean, who designated this thing or that thing as the fifteenth wonder of
the world, anyway?

Any thoughts, Mr. E?

-WaV


On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Matt Turner kat...@yahoo.com wrote:

 What about Lechuguilla?? It's not even on the list. I've just submitted it,
 but still I'm surprised it's not in there. I was also surprised that Cueva
 de los Cristales wasn't as well and have nominated it as well

 Matt Turner


 It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
 without accepting it. - Aristotle


 Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can
 do that.- Norman Vincent Peale

  --
 *From:* Quinta Wilkinson qui...@clearwire.net
 *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com; jerryat...@aol.com
 *Sent:* Monday, December 22, 2008 10:23:59 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Lebanon's Jeita Caves on list for New 7
 Wonders of Nature :

  The Grand Canyon is the top US wonder just now. We need to vote for
 Mammoth Cave as it is way down the list. It also does not have official
 support at this time. There is a way to start an official support group.
 Quinta

Re: [Texascavers] minor cave rescue in the news

2008-12-20 Thread Don Cooper

Sounds like a caver to me.
He was in a freakin' cave wasn't he?
-WaV

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:46 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here is a minor story in the news about a person stuck in a cave



 http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/dec/18/knoxville-rescuers-responding-man-trapped-monroe-c/

 Was it a caver?

[ot_caving] Bad TV On the Internet Tonight - or whenever you want

2008-12-11 Thread Don Cooper

Ah, trailer parks.  As I'm writing this, on My Name is Earl the set is a
trailer park.
But that's not what I'm writing about.
While trying to fall asleep (WAY before my usual bedtime) in Houston a while
back at my brother's house over thanksgiving,
channel-surfing - I snagged on a movie called The Trailer Park Boys - The
Movie.
Wondering, the other day, who these people are and what the series the movie
was based on - I stumbled across something perhaps uniquely Canadian and
irritatingly entertaining.   At least for me anyway.  I guess I just have a
long, unquenchable fascination for Canadian subculture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailer_park_boys
So if you're bored, love mocumentaries, have high speed internet and enjoy
the irreverent, irrelevant and absurd, CHECK OUT the goings on in the
fictional Nova Scotia Sunnyvale Trailer
Parkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnyvale_Trailer_Parkat
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1344122195717222527hl=en
-WaV

Re: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas

2008-12-11 Thread Don Cooper

My thinking is that part of the reason it's so low now is because so many
financial hedge funds were betting that it would stay high.  Part of the
reason it's cheap now is because it was paid forward when it was so
unreasonably high.  When we were all getting ripped off where did all that
money go?  It's now paying for unreasonably cheap gasoline.  But has anyone
else noticed that diesel is a WHOLE lot more *now* than it was the
*last*time gasoline was $1.50 a gallon?
At that point, diesel was only $1.60 to $1.70.  Something stinks here!

And speaking of OIL - this really is a burr in my craw... I had to pay $14
for 5 quarts of decent motor oil at Wally Whirled the other day.  Man!  That
used to be THE cheapest place for motor oil.  Auto zone is just about the
same price.   WHAT IS *THAT *about???

-WaV

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.comwrote:

  I was generally referring to imported oil prices and profit margins as
 that is where most of it comes from.

 Fritz


  --

 *From:* Brian Riordan [mailto:riordan.br...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:43 PM
 *To:* Fritz Holt
 *Cc:* David; Texascavers Mailing List
 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas



 It all depends.  A classic Texas gusher takes nothing to get a lot.
 Deepwater fields cost a certain amount to initiate, produce and transport,
 if the current price doesn't offset that, they lose, while the Texas gusher
 may still make money.  Canadian Oil Sands require even more to upgrade the
 oil (besides, who the hell wants to work in Northern Alberta, just take a
 look at housing prices!
 http://www.colinhartigan.com/view_listing.php?listing=mlsid=8320001070)-
 it takes so much energy to produce the crude oil here, that without a high
 oil price, it doesn't make sense to dig it up.  If a company initiates a
 project because it became economical at 80 bucks a barrel, they may lose
 money on that field for every day of production under 80 bucks/barrel, while
 the Texas gusher STILL makes money.  To oversimplify...






 On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
 wrote:

 Oil companies are complaining because oil has dropped from $140. a barrel
 to below $50. Some years back when oil was at or below $20. they said if
 only the price could get back to $30. Although, I have read where the oil
 companies/refiners do not make a higher percentage of profit when oil prices
 are high. There are advantages and disadvantages when oil and Gasoline
 prices are high. I personally prefer it at the current price of $1.48 at
 Sam's.
 Fritz


 -Original Message-
 From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:26 PM
 To: Texascavers Mailing List
 Subject: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas

 I saw gas for $ 1.34 yesterday.

 I heard one analyst say that if the economy continues at its current pace,
 that
 gas could fall to 99 cents per gallon in some places.

 Where I live, there does not appear to be a decrease in demand for gas, so
 to
 me the huge price drop of $ 2.50 per gallon seems surprising.I am not
 going
 to complain though.

 I feel that someone illegally profited from the sale of gas this past
 summer when
 gas prices were at an all-time high. Maybe it wasn't illegal, but
 certainly greedy,
 or something like price-gouging.

 David Locklear

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[ot_caving] Re: Call The President - URGENT

2008-12-10 Thread Don Cooper

As I perceive the current administration to be totally indifferent to the
disadvantaged - I don't have any hopes of influencing the way things are -
not until Barrack Obama actually takes office.

In the 'war against drugs' I feel that the *most* of those arrested are
victims of the state.  I do not feel that it is right to punish people who
have this problem - no matter what moral pulpit one stands behind!  For the
most part, the current policies only serve to further victimize those who
suffer from the disease of addiction.

Specifically, the Solomon-Lautenberg
amendmenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon-Lautenberg_amendmentis
perhaps one of the most disgraceful attacks against the common people
of
this country which has ever been devised.  Ever wonder why so many 'celebs'
are charged for driving with a suspended license?  It is because of this
amendment which makes a mandatory suspension of one's license statutory for
drug conviction - that so many people are driving without a license.  (And
you mostly only hear about this happening to people who otherwise have the
means to have other people drive them around!!!)

-WaV


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Quinta Wilkinson qui...@clearwire.netwrote:

  They do work for us and we do have the right and need to tell them how we
 feel. If we do not then how can we complain?

 Quinta

[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Refrigeration over Fire

2008-12-10 Thread Don Cooper

It reminds me of a natural gas powered refrigerator my grandfather had in
his welding shop.
It looked just like any other refrigerator, but the energy that ran the
thing came from a little gas burner in the back of it.

-Don C

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Andy Zenker andyzen...@yahoo.com wrote:

 But most likely likely it's what someone else said - the Einstein
 refrigerator, a single-pressure absorption refrigerator.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator

 Just like anything else, energy is required to run it.  Heat is energy so
 it makes sense.


 ROCKHUGGER
 Andy Zenker
 Texas Caver

[ot_caving] Fwd: [Texascavers] Refrigeration over fire?

2008-12-10 Thread Don Cooper

I think it works like a Reverse ETF, which is a stock that goes up in price
when the price of stocks is covers goes down! *(And Vica (of course) Versa)
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_etf

*-WaV*

2008/12/10 Matt Turner kat...@yahoo.com

http://gizmodo.com/5105820/zero-electricity-fridge-freezes-with-fire

I'm really curious on how this works. I keep thinking it's April 1st.

Matt Turner

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it. - Aristotle

Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can
do that.- Norman Vincent Peale

--
*From:* Jon Cradit jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org
*To:* Mary Thiesse wpipistre...@yahoo.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:42:55 PM
*Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] Fw: [greater_houston_grotto] Harry Walker

I remember when I first started caving and listening to stories told by
Harry and Charles and wishing some day to grow up to have stories like
theirs.

Please pass along my deepest condolences to Harry's family and the awe
which I held him in.

Jon Cradit

*From:* Mary Thiesse [mailto:wpipistre...@yahoo.com]
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:26 PM
*To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
*Subject:* [Texascavers] Fw: [greater_houston_grotto] Harry Walker

I believe there are a number of other texas cavers that would like to know
this as well.

Mary TZ

- Forwarded Message
*From:* Kevin McGowan ke...@kevinmcgowan.com
*To:* greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com
*Cc:* mcon...@swbell.net; cfro...@yahoo.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:22:09 AM
*Subject:* [greater_houston_grotto] Harry Walker

Hello,

Those of us in GHG that have been around a while remember Harry Walker. I'm
sorry to say that Harry passed away suddenly, yesterday after a long battle
with Alzheimer.

David Locklear informed me that there will be a service for Harry at the
Crowder Funeral Home in Dickenson TX at 2pm this Saturday.

Crowder Funeral Home 851 Hwy. 517 @ 646 Dickinson, TX 77539. Phone:(281)
337-1515.

I called to confirm this. This is a link to their site:
http://www.crowderf uneralhome. com/default.
htmhttp://www.crowderfuneralhome.com/default.htm

Harry hiked many of the 14ers and had always been and avid outdoorsman. He
went with us into Honey Creek to look around when he was 80 years old. He
was also one of the founding members of GHG.

His wife, Dorothy survives him. Many of us remember the parties at Harry
and
Dorothy's. We enjoyed their pool and wonderful hospitality. Harry will be
missed and I can only hope that I have ½ his energy when I'm in my 80s. He
was a real inspiration to enjoying life for as long as you can.

Kevin McGowan Photography

5250 Gulfton, Suite 2F

Houston Texas 77081

Studio: 713-665-3818

Mobile: 281-433-2474

kevin@kevinmcgowan. comb kevin%40kevinmcgowan.comb

web: www.kevinmcgowan. com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___

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Re: [ot_caving] huge flat screen TV

2008-12-08 Thread Don Cooper

There are some similar on I71between my house and work.  I hate them!
The one close to Manchaca is so f*in bright, that at night it makes it hard
to see anything else near the road!!!
-WaV

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 5:30 AM, Quinta Wilkinson qui...@clearwire.netwrote:

  I imagine there will be one in all the major cities within a year or so.

 I wonder if this could bring back the drive-in movie?

 My understanding is that they cannot have flashing items and they must keep
 the same photo for at least a minute. I saw it on the news and not sure if
 it was over the rules for our city or not. I am pretty sure it was on our
 local news.I was as usual heating up a cup of tea at the time.

 Quinta

Re: [Texascavers] NSS Business pages

2008-12-06 Thread Don Cooper

I hope I'm not committing an impropriety or violating the NSS's trust, but
would someone who is NOT a current NSS member (and who has had no NSS member
using their computer to access the caves.org website) please try and access
the NSS business pages with this URL?
http://www.caves.org/nss-business/index.php
Please report.
-WaV

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Philip L Moss philipm...@juno.com wrote:

 Alex and all:
 I have to agree with Mixon on this one.  Even if other organizations
 don't put their budget, agenda, and minutes online for the public to see,
 that is no reason for us not to do so.  Personally, I find this a very
 tiresome argument.  I often hear that we are the premier caving
 organization (and this in spite of the NSS used as a negative example of
 cave management by the US Fish and Wildlife service in the
 not-too-distant past).  Does that mean we strive to be no better than
 other conservation organizations?

Re: [Texascavers] NSS Business pages

2008-12-06 Thread Don Cooper

Ok!  Thanks everyone.
Results indicate that the NSS site does use cookies and just 'hopping over
the fence' doesn't grant everyone access to the business page.  I guess its
good to see that their web coordinator is quite competent.  I do however
miss the point as to why the information is protected. (But better to be
secure than promiscuous, I guess.)
-WaV

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote:

 I hope I'm not committing an impropriety or violating the NSS's trust, but
 would someone who is NOT a current NSS member (and who has had no NSS member
 using their computer to access the caves.org website) please try and
 access the NSS business pages with this URL?
 http://www.caves.org/nss-business/index.php
 Please report.
 -WaV

 On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Philip L Moss philipm...@juno.comwrote:

 Alex and all:
 I have to agree with Mixon on this one.  Even if other organizations
 don't put their budget, agenda, and minutes online for the public to see,
 that is no reason for us not to do so.

Re: [Texascavers] guano question

2008-12-05 Thread Don Arburn


Fecalanche:

n.
	• A fall or slide of a large mass, as of feces or guano, down a  
slope.
	• A massive or overwhelming amount; a flood: received an avalanche  
of crap.


v., -lanched, -lanch·ing, -lanch·es.

v.intr.
To fall or slide in a massive or overwhelming amount of poo.

v.tr.
To overwhelm; inundate in shit.

[French; akin to Provençal lavanca, ravine, perhaps ultimately from  
Latin lābī, to slip.]



sporslide


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Re: [Texascavers] Bexar Grotto Holiday Party

2008-12-05 Thread Don Arburn


No ROOFS!? Bummer. I'll behave this time.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 5, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Geary Schindel  
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote:



Folks,



The Bexar Grotto Holiday Party is scheduled for Saturday, December  
13 starting at 6:00 PM at the Geary, Sue, Graham, and Aspen Schindel 
’s house located at 11310 Whisper Dawn, San Antonio, Texas 78230.  P 
hone number at the house is 210-326-1576.  ALL cavers and friends ar 
e welcome to attend.  It will be a pot luck gathering so bring a dis 
h and come on down.  We will be spreading the holiday cheer to celeb 
rate Christmas, Hanukah, Kwanza, winter solstices, and  anything els 
e folks want to celebrate so dress accordingly (casual is better).




Rules of the Game:



If you bring a dish, you need to leave with a dish, not necessarily  
your dish, just a dish (we have enough dishes left over from last  
year – you can take one of those also).




There will be refreshments but if you have specific tastes, bring  
your own beverage of choice.




No drinking directly from whiskey bottles – we’re trying to run a  
class establishment here (beer bottle are ok).




If you have a food allergy, bring an epi-pen – actually, bring two p 
ens, some Benadryl, medic alert bracelet, etc.  Be aware that we don 
’t have a defibulator at the house but would be happy to try the new 
 taser on you- It could work – maybe.




Please leave your varmints at home unless they’re on a dish – I  
already have two varmints, thanks anyway.




Stay off the roof, and stay off my neighbor’s roof.



Please make an effort to keep all bodies and bottles within the  
property boundaries.




There will be a white elephant gift exchange so bring an appropriate  
gift (not an elephant).  All gifts must go home with someone.




There will be a TCMA board meeting on Sunday so if you would like to  
come to the party and spend the night, you’re welcome to stay at the 
 house and help clean up on Sunday morning.  Just let me know so we’ 
ll reserve you some space.




We’ll be fixing breakfast for anyone that doesn’t make it home  
– OK, anyone that stays at the house.




Geary and Sue Schindel












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[Texascavers] [Guanoslide Etymology] Wanusliden, Labwanu, Lapswanu

2008-12-05 Thread Don Arburn

I'm no linguist or wordsmith and I prolly got it all wrong but this  
seemed fun, and so I tried:


Guano (from the Quechua 'wanu', via Spanish) is the excrement (feces  
and urine) of seabirds, bats, and seals.[1] The word guano  
originates from the Quichua language of the Inca civilization and  
means the droppings of sea birds. Incas collected guano from the  
coast of Peru for use as soil enricher. The Incas assigned great value  
to guano, restricting access to it and punishing any disturbance to  
the birds with death.[3]


Wanu

slide  (sl

d)
[Middle English sliden, from Old English sl

dan.]
1. A mass movement of earth, rocks, snow, or ice down a slope. Slides  
can be caused by an accumulation of new matter or of moisture in the  
overlying material, or by erosion within or below the material. They  
are often triggered by an earthquake or other disturbance such as an  
explosion.


Sliden
to
Wanusliden or Guano Slide

-OR-

Root: lab-, laps-   English: slide, slipLatin: labi, lapsus

Lab+wanu = Labwanu
Laps+wanu = Lapswanu

Wanusliden
Labwanu
Lapswanu


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Re: [Texascavers] Guanological question

2008-12-04 Thread Don Arburn


American Heritage perhaps from the French word for ravine: lavanca

Go from there

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2008, at 6:54 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote:


At 03:33 PM 12/4/2008, Geary Schindel wrote:
So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a  
crapalanche?


My immediate reaction was that we could, as a philosophical group,  
do better than that. Up front I will offer the following with the  
caveat that I think these two are not even close to the potential.


defacalanché (with accent on the e, just for effect)--def a ka launc 
h hey, the launching of some defacant (too generic for me).


A varient would be guanalanché to be more cave specific.

guarumbe (again pronouncing the final e)--gwa room bey, from guano  
and derumbe, the Spanish word for rock falls or landslides.


Those, of course, are all nouns. Shouldn't there be an active verb  
form for the movement of the stuff? Three of the 4 team members  
were badly guarumbéd when they passed beneath the Ceiling Chute.


I think the creative juices within the readers of CaveTex oughta be  
able to come up with several other possibilities. Then we should  
vote and put it into use in current publications and send it in to  
Mr Webster.


Riding high on that success, we would be well within our rights to  
come up with a word for the poor sap who gets buried by the  
granalanché.

--Ediger

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Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question

2008-12-04 Thread Don Arburn


Assalanche?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:29 PM, Devra Heyer djhe...@swbell.net wrote:


Would it be a craptastrophe?

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Geary Schindel gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org  
wrote:

From: Geary Schindel gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 3:33 PM



In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on  
steep slopes with any sizeable population present to create a  
situation where there might be a mass movement of snow which would  
be defined as an avalanche.  Colorado and Wyoming are different  
stories as there are serious safety issues with avalanches each year.




There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for  
rock falls in Texas.  One of the better examples is at Big Bend  
National Park where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock  
fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park  
headquarters.  However, Yosemite is probably better known for having  
large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally squash  
people.




If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you  
may have a land slide.  I would assume that there have been a number  
of landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and  
this might be an issue.  I would assume that it is a fairly unusual  
geohazard.  However, California is famous for their landslides and  
mud slides.




However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most  
probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps).   
During the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents  
that contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could  
results in mass movement of the material.  Actually, the material  
probably reached the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there  
were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material.  Our  
group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue.  So, if  
you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche?




G

Re: [ot_caving] Personal Hygiene Tip - NO MORE DEODORANT

2008-12-04 Thread Don Cooper

Aw come on David!  Be a man!
I used to have some skin tags in that area - but I (somehow) managed to snag
one and tear it.  That did hurt for a while but only because it was a
protracted 'wound' until it finally crusted up and I yanked the rest of it
off with a pair of tweezers.
The other two or three, I cut off with small diagonal cutters ('dikes' or
wire cutters).
Actually, using wire tools to cut skin off your body without anesthetics is
exhilarating!
You think it's really REALLY going to hurt, but almost as a bodily
over-compensation - you'll probably feel quite a rush of endorphins
afterwards.
They'll bleed for a little while but they won't grow back.  And it doesn't
really hurt that much.
(Get them now before they get much larger.)
-WaV

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:08 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here are some pretty armpit photos:

 http://www.visualdxhealth.com/searchResults/adult_Male_Armpit.htm

 I have some very tiny skin protrusions growing under my arms that are
 annoying.
 I have always believed they were related to deodorant as I don't have them
 anywhere else.  I believe these are called skin tags.

 I hope to get them removed someday, however, I don't have a lot of faith
 in dermatologist. One used liquid nitrogen on a small wart on my finger
 35
 years ago, and it has hurt every day since. I would have been better
 off to cut it myself with a knife.

 My other concern is that I scar easy and usually get kelloids when I cut
 myself.

 I would think an underarm cut would not heal easily.

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Re: [Texascavers] guano question

2008-12-04 Thread Don Arburn

Surveying up through the center of Punkin. Every move threatened us  
with death by drowning in guano.


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:40 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:


I am just curious which cave passages have you experienced your
worst encounter with bat guano.

For me, it was the last pit in Emerald Sink, but I heard someone tell
me that there is a pit off the main route of the cave which is the  
worst

they have ever seen.

Another time near Ocampo in the Sierra Madres, we were in an open
air pit and on some ledges was what appeared to be vampire guano,
but we didn't have to get near it.

I guess being in Bracken or Frio at the peak of the guano freshness
would be another place.

I have also been in water that had a high concentration of bat poop.
The wet entrance of Carrizal can be like that.

I don't think I have ever been waste deep in a slurry of bat guano,
but nearly was on a trip to a pit ( Sotano Molino ? ) just outside of
Gomez Farias.   But I seem to recall reading about someone who has.

David Locklear

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Re: [ot_caving] computer news - Intel

2008-12-03 Thread Don Cooper

I'm more like the guy that brags on the fact that never mind the car takes
an hour to get to 100mph, I built it for only $1000 and it gets 50mpg.

I think it's IDIOTIC to drool over the biggest, fastest and most expensive
shiny phallic object. Which - if you are really ok with yourself - you
probably don't need or want it.
Attempting to discover the greatest values at the lowest cost is financial
efficiency (which seems to be completely ignored by the 'gotta haves')...

(I pity the fool!)
Mr WaV T


On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:

  They build them for the same reason they build muscle cars that go from 0
 to 120 in 1.2 seconds (or whatever). Even though you can't drive them like
 that, there's always somebody out there that wants one so they can bore
 everybody at the next party by telling them that their car will do 0 to
 120...

  Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:56:10 -0600
  From: dlocklea...@gmail.com
  To: o...@texascavers.com
  Subject: [ot_caving] computer news - Intel

 
  According to this story today, computer geeks have broken a record
  for desktop computer speed at 5 1/2 gigahertz:
 
  http://usa.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=13624
 
  They used the new Intel motherboard ( X58 ) and the new Intel
  chip - the i7.
 
  The base model of the X58 with the i7 is currently available at Fry's
  for $ 600, so you too could start building a computer with
  the potential for having the fastest processing speed you have
  ever imagined.
 
  But why?
 
 
  What I need my computer to do is to make my life simpler. I need
  it to boot quicker, to never crash or lock up, to easily connect to
  any gadgets that I have, especially the printer and the scanner.
 
  I am not yet familiar with accessing the Internet before the computer
  boots. Anybody out there using this new feature?
 
  I want to be able to sit down at the computer and immediately start
  working on something without having to worry if I have the program
  for that task. Meaning it would be nice if things like AutoCAD and
  Photoshop, Games and Music were somehow already on my computer.
  I think that is where the Internet is going to fill a gap, but I haven't
  tried using on-line programs yet.
 
  I wish broadband access were not so expensive.
 
  It appears someone could inexpensively build a quad-core computer
  using AMD stuff, especially if you go with Linux. It may not have all
  the bells and whistles, but it would still be faster than what most
  people had 2 or 3 years ago.
 
  David Locklear
 
  Ref:
 
 
 http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Review/127372,nehalem-intel-core-i7-extreme.aspx
 
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[ot_caving] Personal Hygiene Tip - NO MORE DEODORANT

2008-12-03 Thread Don Cooper

(I know this is a topic which most people would typically keep to
themselves, but as far as airing personal issues in public - but I wouldn't
be the first to do so...And this has some positive information that others
might actually benefit from!)
You've probably seen a post or article somewhere on the net about a link
between breast cancer and underarm deodorant.
Well, I know I have.
As it would happen, the other day I'm chatting with my neighbor - who asked
me what I'd been doing today - I'd just got back from buying groceries and
it struck me - crap, I forgot about something.   I told him I just got back
from shopping - but darnit - I forgot to buy deodorant - I'm out.  He said
- I never use that stuff.  WHAT?  I'm like - how do you get away with
that?  I've never ever been able to smell you from a distance!   He said -
No, I use limes.  One lime can keep me from being stinky for two or three
days
So I looked it up on the net and didn't find anything except for lime
scented deodorants.
Undaunted, I bought 14 little key limes at HEB for $1 and decided to give it
a try.
After showering, I cut one tiny lime in half - squeezed the juice out of one
half in the palm of my hand - rubbed the juice between my hands and then
slathered my armpits in lime juice.
That's been a couple of weeks ago and I haven't put one microgram of
aluminum chlorhydrate under my arms.  I think this is great!
I'm not sure which is cheaper - but I'm pretty darn confident that raw,
unadulterated lime juice is way better to use on your body than a pasty
stick composed of a chemical cocktail. Plus - you can always find limes in
Mexico!
-WaV

Re: [Texascavers] Tennessee cave fatality

2008-12-02 Thread Don Cooper

Eternally a caver now!
What a grim exit strategy!
-WaV

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Were these 2 guys cavers?

 http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/612969.html

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Re: [ot_caving] computer news - Intel

2008-12-02 Thread Don Cooper

Try 'Naked DSL' from ATT.  I'm paying only $34 a month for access that
usually tests downloading at about 2.5Mb/sec and uploads at 410 Kb/sec (
http://www.speedtest.net).
I think Naked DSL is also available at about 800 Kb/sec for $18/ month (But
then you'd probably not *even* be able to watch full screen HD streaming
video).

Oh yeah - using a quantum pre-fetch add-on appliance on the backplane of the
golden idol power matrix, your applications can load before you even start
the computer.  Access is instantaneous, but due to temporal distortions,
users of this device have complained of being revisited by puberty and dead
relatives.  It only costs 35 billion dollars, but since money doesnt
actually exist beyond the quantum continuum - you can easily afford it, (but
only if you don't wish for it or go on and on trying to gauge opinions of it
by bystanders who couldn't possibly care less).
Cheers!
-WaV

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 According to this story today, computer geeks have broken a record
 for desktop computer speed at 5 1/2 gigahertz:

 http://usa.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=13624

 They used the new Intel motherboard ( X58 ) and the new Intel
 chip - the i7.

 The base model of the X58 with the i7 is currently available at Fry's
 for $ 600, so you too could start building a computer with
 the potential for having the fastest processing speed you have
 ever imagined.

 But why?


 What I need my computer to do is to make my life simpler.I need
 it to boot quicker, to never crash or lock up, to easily connect to
 any gadgets that I have, especially the printer and the scanner.

 I am not yet familiar with accessing the Internet before the computer
 boots. Anybody out there using this new feature?

 I want to be able to sit down at the computer and immediately start
 working on something without having to worry if I have the program
 for that task.  Meaning it would be nice if things like AutoCAD and
 Photoshop, Games and Music were somehow already on my computer.
 I think that is where the Internet is going to fill a gap, but I haven't
 tried using on-line programs yet.

 I wish broadband access were not so expensive.

 It appears someone could inexpensively build a quad-core computer
 using AMD stuff, especially if you go with Linux. It may not have all
 the bells and whistles, but it would still be faster than what most
 people had 2 or 3 years ago.

 David Locklear

 Ref:


 http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Review/127372,nehalem-intel-core-i7-extreme.aspx

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Re: [Texascavers] news story about National Forest

2008-12-01 Thread Don Arburn


Speak for yourself.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 
 wrote:


And how were we any different? We watched episodes of Gilligan's  
Island over and over and over again...


Diana



And kids today seem to watch the same episode over and over and  
over again like

a bunch of zombies.

David Locklear



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Re: [Texascavers] kill you for the new Hummer Truck

2008-11-25 Thread Don Arburn


Amen brother!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2008, at 7:28 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

Running scarred of the unknown is an unwarranted and undignified  
activity; there is, however, no really workable substitute for using  
good judgement and being careful. Bad luck, on the other hand, can  
only be viewed as providential. Say your prayers.


--Ediger


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Re: [Texascavers] OT - the new Hummer Truck

2008-11-25 Thread Don Arburn


On Nov 25, 2008, at 12:30 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:


Would you go to a remote area of Mexico in a $ 50,000 vehicle?


Yes, and I have, and with as many as 10 cavers and all our crap.  
However mine is a ranch truck, not a Lincoln, Lexus or Hummer. 
 


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Re: [Texascavers] OT - the new Hummer Truck

2008-11-25 Thread Don Arburn


They would kill you for your wallet.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2008, at 1:54 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com  
wrote:



Some Banditos would still kill you for it.
Fritz

-Original Message-
From: Don Arburn [mailto:donarb...@mac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:36 PM
Cc: Texascavers Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - the new Hummer Truck

On Nov 25, 2008, at 12:30 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:


Would you go to a remote area of Mexico in a $ 50,000 vehicle?


Yes, and I have, and with as many as 10 cavers and all our crap.
However mine is a ranch truck, not a Lincoln, Lexus or Hummer.


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Re: [Texascavers] Blind Mexican cave fish research applications :

2008-11-20 Thread Don Cooper

Evolutionary progress might need to be rethought from the top down when
considering epigenetics.
Imagine things that you've done to yourself, directly effecting your
offspring (even that of your own 'clone)!
Epigenetics (possibly) introduces a mechanism into evolution that has
nothing to do with selection!!!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html
-WaV

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 11:26 AM, CaverArch cavera...@aol.com wrote:

  Mary's comments were quite interesting and. indeed, clarifying.  I have
 one slight quibble, however:  improvements to the sensitivity of these
 organs or structures in blind cave fish will be the result of evolutionary
 selection processes.  The analogy to a blind person's 'learned' hearing
 improvement skills is therefore not quite appropriate.

 Yes, the point is minor, but a blind person hones his or her hearing
 intentionally, and any analogy that implies intention or design in
 biological evolution is a scientific pitfall that should be avoided.

 Roger Moore
 GHG

 In a message dated 11/18/08 09:53:36 Central Standard Time,
 wpipistre...@yahoo.com writes:

  This article suggests that the cupulae are unique to blind cave fish. I
 think there needs to be some clarification made here. All fish have what is
 termed a *lateral line* running along the trunk and tail and I think also
 project up along the side of the head. This is basically a sensory system
 that is sensitive to hydrostatic pressure and other receptors for
 temperature and electrical charges. The sense organs of the lateral line
 system are the *neuromasts* which are bundles of cells (not unlike taste
 bud clusters).The neuromast cells secrete a substance which is referred to
 as *cupula.* Each sensory cell has a hairlike projection which is
 surrounded by the gelatinous cupula which plays it's part in the sensory
 input to the brain. There are also isolated neuromasts on the head which are
 referred to as *pit organs* which are also sensory organs. Remember that
 these things are common to all fish. It seems to me that in blind cave fish
 these sensory organs are more highly developed as say in a blind person who
 develops a heightened sense of hearing or other senses. It seems like a
 reasonable correlation to me.
 Mary TZ

  --
 *From:* jerryat...@aol.com jerryat...@aol.com
 *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:58:05 AM
 *Subject:* [Texascavers] Blind Mexican cave fish research applications :

  Blind Cave Fish Research Blind cave fish research may lead to new
 applications. By David Alderton

 **

http://fishchannel.com/images/reptilechannel/.jpg[image: blind cave
 fish - SPAN id=]Astyanax mexicanus src=
 http://fishchannel.com/images/fish-news/blind-fish-news-200.jpg; width=200
 border=0
 Blind cave fish.
 *Photo courtesy JohnstonDJ.*Blind cave characins (*Astyanax mexicanus*)
 have long fascinated fishkeepers, thanks to their apparent ability to see,
 even though they are totally blind. These blind cave fish occur only in the
 San Luis Potosi cave system in Mexico, where their ancestors became cut off
 by changes in the water level thousands of years ago.

 The appearance of the blind cave fish has been modified, as a result of
 their isolation in this subterranean world. They rely on a remarkable
 sensory system to guide them when swimming, which scientists at the Georgia
 Institute of Technology in Atlanta have recently been studying.

 Blind cave fish have tall, plate-like structures called cupulae along their
 bodies, which sense changes in water movement in their vicinity. These
 connect to bundles of specialized cells which in turn convey the information
 to the brain. This means that as a fish swims past an object, it can
 instantly detect its position by the water flow around its body helping it
 to gauge its distance and avoid a collision, or escape from a predator.

 Professor Vladimir Tsukruk, who leads the research team, built
 corresponding cupulae by using droplets of a polymer applied to flow
 sensors. He discovered that these modified sensors were far more sensitive
 than the basic sensors currently in use. This means they could have
 applications in many different areas, ranging from tsunami detection to port
 security. It's a simple but robust demonstration of the potential of
 bio-inspired design in solving difficult engineering problems, he said.

 These modified sensors may also be valuable as a replacement for sonar in
 some situations, helping to protect marine life. More widespread underwater
 use of sonar by the world's navies is believed to be the major reason as to
 why whales are now beaching themselves in increasing numbers.

 The next step is to develop sufficient computing power to interpret the
 data coming from groups of these sensors. This, of course, is something that
 the blind cave fish already does as it swims through its dark environment.

Re: [ot_caving] natural gas driven hybrid Camry

So you still have your Honda Hybrid?  Is it ill?  Still driving it?
(driveable?)
I always meant to ask if it made any sign that it was using the electric
motor as a brake as opposed to the energy wasting/dissipating type of
brakes...
-WaV

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:06 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:


 http://cwimg.sv.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CWDate=20081119Category=FREEArtNo=81111ref=ARmaxw=630

 Even if Toyota only builds a handfull of these, it should help the
 environment in the towns were they are driven.

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Re: [ot_caving] politics and more personal opinions

Responsible fiscal spending seems to be the most important matter.
I believe the entire problem currently being experienced is based on the
simple fact that so many are living beyond their means.
Way too much money is being wasted, but you can't say it's wasted on
entertainment values (sports) -  I agree that it is an area that's gotten
way out of hand.  Too much money is going into the hands of too few
participants.  But many people are employed by the expenses of the
entertainment arena - but I would wager that the guy behind the $5 hot dog
is NOT making $1 for every dog he sells! (and I think that's very wrong).
When I hear people yammering about money spent on far-flung research I
cringe.  If we're not advancing science through finding better ways to blow
up people, places and things - we're not moving forward unless we're
spending billions on space travel, telescopes mega-colliders and medical
research!  That is as important as infrastructure maintenance.  And all
these items have trickle-down benefits to the everyday man and or woman. The
unconscionable  skimming  of megadollars by CEOs and their golden shower
parachutes - That Has To STOP.  That is a tax paid by the most productive
persons in organizations which brings the house down (as we've been seeing).
But above all, I feel like increasing our population is something more wrong
than anything else that we're doing.  To maintain our planet, our children's
children's children's  quality of life we - need to scale back the
population by 10% every decade.  (And NOT just the conscientious among us!
Call it immoral if you will, but what could be moral about writing debts
upon our planet that it can not pay!?)
-WaV

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.comwrote:

 David,
 I agree with you that the money spent on professional sports for the
 pleasure of man is crazy and wasteful. But hey, it's everyone's choice as to
 how they spend their money. But, only those who partake should bear the cost
 of stadiums and all of the related costs, not taxpayers. If this could
 happen, sports would play a much less important role in all of our lives.
 Just the opinion of a geezer. Bah! Humbug!
 -Original Message-
 From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:22 PM
 To: o...@texascavers.com
 Subject: [ot_caving] politics and more personal opinions

 The present economic situation is partly due to the high cost of
 living versus the
 income most people are making.  Look at how many Americans are
 making $ 9 per hour and raising a family. They can't spend money to
 help the wheels of our economy turn.

 It seems like one solution to some of our problems may be to put a
 moratorium
 on certain things that are having a negative impact on the economy.

 For example, we could put a moratorium on aggressive revenue collecting
 by municipalities that are raising money to build new sports stadiums.

 We could put a 1 year moratorium on the arrest of individuals caught with
 a small amount of marijuana, or the arrest of a prostitute, or other
 selected
 misdemeanors.

 We might need to temporarily eliminate the sales tax on certain things
 in certain
 states.  Maybe on sub-compact cars.

 We might need to encourage people to eat out, maybe by putting a moratorium
 on dinner taxes, or free downtown parking.

 We need to find a way to encourage tourism, yet the high cost of travel is
 interrupting that, and then you have the tourist who say, hey I like it
 here
 in the U.S. - I think I will stay. So tourism is kind of a double
 edge sword.

 We need to outsource our CEO's.  Let's use cheapy CEO's from Darfur to
 run GM, Ford, and Chevrolet. I bet they would gladly do the job
 for $ 20 bucks
 per day.

 Instead of having the Superbowl every year, we should have it every four
 years
 like the Olympics.The money that people throw away on the Superbowl
 could
 be used to manufacture some product that we need like hybrid car batteries.
 Wouldn't it be really stupid if we held the Olympics every year?
 What a waste
 of resources that would be?

 NASA and other space agencies are simply going to have to start
 turning a profit,
 or the plug is going to have to be pulled on them.  I would love
 to see us send
 a man or woman or chimp to Jupiter, but why not make a profit while doing
 it.

 It seems we need to address the tollway system and make it more
 efficient.   Under
 its current operation, it is wasteful and the money does not get
 properly used.   Sure
 it makes sense for the user to pay the primary cost of the road, but
 at the same time,
 isn't it wasteful to have so many dead end jobs were people stand
 around all day
 providing little productivity to our economy.

 The scarey thing is there really are no solutions that are going to
 make everybody
 happy.Our population has grown to much in certain areas that the
 area can no longer
 support that population.  In

[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Mexican cave swallows Massachusetts coast :

Man - that guy REALLY has a thing about watching birds, don't he?!
-WaV

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:05 AM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote:

*Cave swallows invade Massachusetts coast *

Published: November 15, 2008 03:48 am
Words on Birds
Steve Grinley

With the colder weather arriving, it may be hard to remember back to August
when thousands of swallows were gathering on the Parker River Wildlife
Refuge (Massachusetts) to head south. After a few weeks of congregating
there in great numbers, fattening up on berries and insects for their
journey, they headed south. A few lingering swallows may have followed in
September, but by October most all the swallows have migrated through.

About six years ago, a new phenomenon began whereby cave swallows, which
are not from our area at all, have been migrating through Massachusetts in
November. These are birds of Texas and Mexico that have ended up in the
Northeast, following southwest and westerly winds in early November. They
then migrate south along the coast to get back to their winter residence in
the Caribbean and Central America. Cave swallows invaded coastal
Massachusetts this week, and were reported from Salisbury to Cape Cod.

(remaining article not reproduced here)

http://www.newburyportnews.com/punews/local_story_319220137.html

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Re: [Texascavers] OT - recent computer news - supercomputers

I would agree with all that you say on that, Charles.
I'm using something right now that just might have knocked the socks off of
the Cray Multimillion Whateveritwas of 25 years ago.
I think it cost me less than $200 to build (with recycled hard drives, CD
and DVD devices).
I don't imagine there's much push to go beyond the 4Ghz level, (if that's
where the bar is now - I haven't checked lately)
but puttering along at 2.5Ghz seems to do just about everything I need.  I'm
not sure if there's another technical barrier in going faster, but it would
seem that the bottleneck now is situated on the I/O buss, memory access and
stuff such as that...
It will be interesting to see how large scale multicore networking will
evolve - Modeling the human brain might give way to a sentient and
self-aware system within the lifetimes of many who are around now.
-WaV

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote:

 10 to 15 years ago, a supercomputer was much slower than our current
 computers, so saying that we will have supercomputers in dorm rooms in
 10 years is kind of misleading.  We have them in our houses today,
 even our cell phones are more powerful than some of the earlier
 supercomputers.

 My quad core mac has more power than supercomputers built 7 years ago,
 so its all a relative point.

 It will be amazing how well computers scale in the next 10 years.  The
 megahertz/gigahertz race is basically over, they aren't making them
 faster in that aspect, they are adding more core's, parallel
 processing and upping the bus speeds that the cpu's communicate with
 the rest of the computer (memory, video, hard drive, peripherals).

 Unless you are doing very processor intensive things, more than a
 dual-core is a waste.  Most modern applications don't even use more
 than 1 core, video/audio encoding or computational research is about
 the only thing that you can do to tax your home computers processor.
 I say a dual-core, because of the modern Windows O/S, it's handy to
 have one core for it, and the 2nd core for your application.  More
 than 2 are really wasted unless you are utilizing it for a specific
 reason.  Of course, this is all my opinion and observations :)

 Charles

 On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:42 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:
  I am posting this off-topic here because nearly everybody on Cavetex
  uses computers,
  and a few Cavetex posters are computer enthusiast.
 
  ( please reply by subscribing to:   ot-subscr...@texascavers.com )
 
 
  Supercomputers are back in the news again.
 
 
 http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=9120741source=rss_news
 
  IBM's new RoadRunner claims to be the fastest, by breaking
  the petaflop barrier, but Cray is already claiming they beat that.
 
  Meanwhile, wealthy computer users can purchase their very
  own supercomputer.
 
  http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2334950,00.asp
 
  While the starting price is $ 10,000, there are computers out there
  now in the $ 5,000 range that claim to be able to challenge
 supercomputers,
  on certain task.
 
  It would seem probable that college students will have supercomputers
  in the dorm rooms in 10 years, well at least grad students and computer
  science majors.
 
  I bet there is a caver out there with the Apple 8 core computer.
 
  http://www.apple.com/macpro/performance.html
 
  And if that isn't fast enough for you, Apple plans to make it faster next
 year:
 
 
 http://www.macblogz.com/2008/11/13/intel-leaks-point-to-mac-pro-updates-early-next-year/
 
 
  David Locklear
  Fort Bend County Armchair Cavers Association ( FBCACA )
 
 
  Ref:
 
 
 http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/09/16/cray-microsoft-team-up-to-sell-25k-windows-supercomputer-will-it-blue-screen/
 
  http://www.xconomy.com/?attachment_id=4892
 
 
 http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Colfax-International-Launches-Tesla-Personal/story.aspx?guid=%7BC47183E9-3D9C-45EC-86C0-34AF72A0D011%7D
 
 
 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122697768258136325.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
 
  http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/546517/
 
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Re: [Texascavers] OT - recent computer news - supercomputers

Isn't much of what goes on in the 'basement' of the Mac OSX, actually a form
of unix/linux?
-WaV

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Diana Tomchick 
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote:

 Charles,

 In the scientific computing world, quad core Macs rule! I have just been
 reading a lengthy and lively discussion/debate on my protein crystallography
 listserve about the relative merits of Linux vs. Mac OSX vs. Windows. The
 Mac OSX quad core is favored due to it's ease of setup and the ability to
 run multiple computing jobs in the hopes of hitting on the best combination
 of refinement variables in the least amount of time. The fact that one could
 actually be doing state-of-the-art scientific computing while simultaneously
 preparing PowerPoint slides for tomorrow's lecture, read CaveTex and write
 the next paper using Word all on the same machine is truly amazing. What
 hasn't caught up is the human brain...so now it's back to work for me, I'm
 wasting too much time reading my e-mail...

 Diana

Re: [Texascavers] RE: Filling in a spring w/rocks and gravel

2008-11-13 Thread Don Cooper

And the goal of this is to *WHAAAT*
_wAv_

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Jim Kennedy jkenn...@batcon.org wrote:

 In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, Whatta maroon!


 -
 From: Jules Jenkins [mailto:julesje...@yahoo.com]
 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:46 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: [Texascavers] Filling in a spring w/rocks and gravel to prevent
 flow? HUH?

 The City of Salado used a tractor to dump rocks and gravel back into
 the spring.
 Mayor Merle Stalcup said he acted in the community's best interest.


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[ot_caving] If you go to church - you would probably not like this post.

2008-11-13 Thread Don Cooper

(Unless you're a Unitarian,  Buddhist or something very secular.)
I found a video on YouTube with audio and video which pretty much sums up
what I feel about religion:
It's a catchy little tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIhabmF-sh4
PLAY IT LOUD!
-WaV-

Re: [ot_caving] ultracapacitor flashlight

2008-11-12 Thread Don Cooper

Ultracapacitors are what's used in the shake and shine flashlights.
Remember those?  Maybe not so ultra - but a capacitor, neverthesless
-WAV

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:35 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Nico,

 That post was the most interesting to ever appear on OT ( IMHO ).

 However, I always thought the problem with the ultra-capacitors was
 size, and that the unit would never fit
 into the housing of a flashlight.

 Let's hope it works and lets hope somebody builds a headlamp.


 On a related note,

 Sports Authority is now selling a fully waterproof LED flashlight
 suitable for mounting on the side of the helmet,
 and suitable for all the extremes of wet caving - waterfalls,
 whirlpools, duck-unders, rapids, etc.It was $ 58
 I think and not only is it a bright yellow neon color, but the
 headpiece glows in the dark.  Again, I ask, why
 not in a headlamp?  This is a new Pelican product.

 Academy is selling a frickin bright new T4 by Streamlight. It was
 $ 80. It is probably too big to mount on
 the side of a helmet, unless you are going to Golondrinas or Guaguas.


 David Locklear
 Fort Bend County Armchair Cavers Association ( FBACA )

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Re: [Texascavers] NSS Fellow in Texas

2008-11-11 Thread Don Cooper

David, are you an NSS member?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would like to informally nominate several Houston cavers:

Re: [ot_caving] FW: Internet Virus Alert - from Texas Sen. Dan Patrick

2008-11-11 Thread Don Cooper

CRIPES Fritz!  Do you also believe Barack Obama is a communist socialist
terrorist muslim because some hack emailed you with something that *said he
was*?  If you'd CHECKED 'snopes' you would have found there ain't nothing
new about this 'virus'.

Although it is a real virus - somewhere out there - keep your pants on.
It's nothing new, and is nothing quite like it is described as.

Simply don't open any emails with attachments from people you don't know.
Better yet, don't open attachments from people YOU know either.  And
WHATEVER you do - don't download any 'free software' promising to eliminate
spyware from your computer or 'clean your registry'.  If you try and view a
video file and get an offer for a upgraded video codec - run away - close
your browser and stay away from that nasty site.  Above all - NEVER, EVER
ingest any excecutable that you didn't ask for!

Once again - an internet hoax worse than ANY possible virus!!!

Well...  except for the Good Times Virus!
Do NOT open any email with the title Good Times

Goodtimes will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will
scramble any disks that are even close to your computer. It will
recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream
goes melty. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards,
screw up the tracking on your television and use subspace field
harmonics to scratch any CD's you try to play.

It will give your ex-girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix
Kool-aid into your fishtank. It will drink all your beer and leave
its socks out on the coffee table when there's company coming over. It
will put a dead kitten in the back pocket of your good suit pants and
hide your car keys when you are late for work.

Goodtimes will make you fall in love with a penguin. It will give you
nightmares about circus midgets. It will pour sugar in your gas tank and
shave off both your eyebrows while dating your current boyfriend behind
your back and billing the dinner and hotel room to your Visa card.

It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such
is the power of Goodtimes, it reaches out beyond the grave to sully those
things we hold most dear.

It moves your car randomly around parking lots so you can't find it. It
will kick your dog. It will leave libidinous messages on your boss's
voice mail in your voice! It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and
terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve.

Goodtimes will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat
up. It will make a batch of Methamphetamine in your bathtub and then
leave bacon cooking on the stove while it goes out to chase
gradeschooles with your new snowblower.

-WaV


FYI.

Fritz Holt
 --

*From:* Jane Parker
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 11, 2008 12:06 PM
*To:* Katy Office; Galveston Dept
*Subject:* FW: Internet Virus Alert - from Texas Sen. Dan Patrick
 --

*From:* Bill Brooks [mailto:bbro...@oric-hb.com]
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:27 AM
**
 --

*Subject:* Internet Virus Alert - from Texas Sen. Dan Patrick

Guess we had better heed this one and be careful.
 --

*From:* Dan Patrick [mailto:danpatrick...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Monday, November 10, 2008 7:23 PM
*Subject:* Internet Virus Alert

To my friends.  I jsut got this e-mail from our internet tech person.  If
you have a PC you need to be on extra alert for this.

PLEASE READ!!!


http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/mailserver.asp
 *Subject: Please read and advise as many as possible
*

Re: [ot_caving] Gay historical note

I gotta wonder what the stats are for same sex...
Seems like these folks have a whole lot more in common right from the start.
I wish I could imitate through email, that mildly irritating smarmy voice of
Pat Robinson who I saw on Teevee this morning:  the problem with these
gay marriages - these unions cannot result in procreation...   *WELL DUH!*
[Man, them christian televangelists have it all figured out!]
-WaV

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.netwrote:

 At 11:04 AM 11/10/2008, David wrote:

 Did you guys know that shortly after the telephone was invented, that
 the divorce
 rate worldwide, almost quadrupled within a few months of getting phone
 service?


 I don't think that I was around then.

 I did notice some years ago that something like 2 outa 3 marriages end in
 divorce. Certain church leaders have called it a divorce crisis. I also
 noticed that those people who never get married also never get divorced.
 Seems like the logical and simple solution to the divorce crisis is to never
 get married. Telephones or not. But then I guess if 'Correlation does not
 imply causation', the whole idea can be thrown out the window, huh

 Back in Baltimore the town was plastered with huge billboards with photos
 of a loving couple and the admonition that, MARRIAGE WORKS. I was tempted
 at every one of them to climb up there with a can of paint and add the
 caveat, 1/3 OF THE TIME. I regret that I never got over my fear of
 heights.

 --Ediger

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Re: [ot_caving] Gay historical note

Oh yeah -
I regularly watch Pat R.  For a few minutes at a time, I love it.  Sometimes
I can't get enough of his totally skewed point of view.  It so defies logic
and sensibility that I find it more entertaining than just about any
blasphemous comedian.   I love to hear him talk about ...the liberals...
as though people who think differently than himself walk around with their
pants on their heads.

I can tell you one thing:  based on everything I ever read about 'Jesus' -
God Jr. would be one left/leaning gay tolerant humanistic secularist!   IE.
Jesus would be one of those 'liberals' that people like Pat R. endlessly
berate.  Based on the episode with the money changers in the temple - Jesus
would probably go haywire kicking the asses of Pat Robinson, Kenneth
Copeland, Benny Hinn and the like...

-WaVy, Amen!

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Scott Nicholson
csnichol...@sbcglobal.netwrote:

 Pat R. is, in my humble opinion, a bigoted-ignorant fool.  He  Jerry
 Falwell are cut from the same cloth...and should be, for the betterment of
 all humankind, rendered incapable of procreation.  Would that, by Pat's
 definition, make his marriage a problem...??



 Fallwell, you may remember, claimed 9/11 and AIDS were God's punishment for
 gays...



 I'll digress brieflythe alignment of the republican party, over the
 last decade or so, with the radical evangelical right-wing wackos (see Pat 
 Jerry above) turned me into a flag-waving Libertarian.



 sorryback to work.

 Scott Nicholson

 - Original Message 
 From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com
 To: Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net
 Cc: OT Texas Cavers o...@texascavers.com
 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:58:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Gay historical note

 I gotta wonder what the stats are for same sex...
 Seems like these folks have a whole lot more in common right from the
 start.
 I wish I could imitate through email, that mildly irritating smarmy voice
 of Pat Robinson who I saw on Teevee this morning:  the problem with
 these gay marriages - these unions cannot result in procreation...   *WELL
 DUH!*
 [Man, them christian televangelists have it all figured out!]
 -WaV

 On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.netwrote:

 At 11:04 AM 11/10/2008, David wrote:

 Did you guys know that shortly after the telephone was invented, that
 the divorce
 rate worldwide, almost quadrupled within a few months of getting phone
 service?


 I don't think that I was around then.

 I did notice some years ago that something like 2 outa 3 marriages end in
 divorce. Certain church leaders have called it a divorce crisis. I also
 noticed that those people who never get married also never get divorced.
 Seems like the logical and simple solution to the divorce crisis is to never
 get married. Telephones or not. But then I guess if 'Correlation does not
 imply causation', the whole idea can be thrown out the window, huh

 Back in Baltimore the town was plastered with huge billboards with photos
 of a loving couple and the admonition that, MARRIAGE WORKS. I was tempted
 at every one of them to climb up there with a can of paint and add the
 caveat, 1/3 OF THE TIME. I regret that I never got over my fear of
 heights.

 --Ediger

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Re: [ot_caving] Gay histo 2

Or society, in general?

Yeah - we'll show you how pro life we are when we eventually gleefully
execute those 'saved babies' that end up on death row!

(Demographics indicate a decrease in violent crime 20 years post Rowe vs
Wade was indeed due to a decrease in unwanted and hence badly treated
children)

-WaV

(If you want the data cited - go to WikiPedia and look it up.  I've got to
go pay my phone bill.)

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote:


 What about the adoption option hyped up by Robinson and his
 co-conspirators? Don't forget about of all the drug addicted babies of
 meth-mothers that didn't get aborted and now will become ADD misfits and
 burdens on society. The question is  who's gonna suffer the most--the
 adopters or the adoptees?


 --Ediger

[ot_caving] I need four 1/4 steel balls

I measured a difference of 6mm between AA and AAA batteries.
In order to charge L-ion AAA batteries in my AA charger, I need four
conductors to take up the slack.
I figured 6mm is about .2456.  Brass, Bronze or Copper would also work.
-thanks,
WaVy

[ot_caving] Re: I need four 1/4 steel balls

I meant .235.

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:53 AM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote:

 I measured a difference of 6mm between AA and AAA batteries.
 In order to charge L-ion AAA batteries in my AA charger, I need four
 conductors to take up the slack.
 I figured 6mm is about .2456.  Brass, Bronze or Copper would also work.
 -thanks,
 WaVy

[ot_caving] Poem for Palin

Sarah Palin, a lipstick pig
Obama didnt, but I just did
Crystal Meth state, Mayor of six
This is who the Elephant picks
Bridge to Nowhere, that's her career
Thanks, But No Thanks, it just ain't your year
This job's too big for this mom to handle
Life too full of its own SCANDALS...

(Wish I could claim it)
-WaV

[ot_caving] Halloween Earthquake this AM near Dallas

USGS reported that just after midnight, a 2.6 magnitude earthquake was
recorded.
Epicenter - almost dead center between Dallas and Fort Worth.
Spooky.
-WaV

Re: [ot_caving] Halloween Earthquake this AM near Dallas

Thanks for the info!
There were at least two within 30 miles of Palmer/Wasilla when I was up in
Alaska summer before last that were close to that magnitude - I didnt feel
them at all.
-Don C

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote:

 Details:
 http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/103108dnmetearthquake.167675aa4.html

 On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:01 AM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote:
  USGS reported that just after midnight, a 2.6 magnitude earthquake was
  recorded.
  Epicenter - almost dead center between Dallas and Fort Worth.
  Spooky.
  -WaV

[ot_caving] Re: Halloween Earthquake this AM near Dallas

More info: http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/last_event_states/states_texas.html

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:01 AM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote:

 USGS reported that just after midnight, a 2.6 magnitude earthquake was
 recorded.
 Epicenter - almost dead center between Dallas and Fort Worth.
 Spooky.
 -WaV

Re: [ot_caving] Gills reply THE COLONEL AND LINCOLN