Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 04 Jul 2014, at 02:15, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Bruno, Is the measure idempotent? How could a measure function be idempotent? It is a function from some algebra of sets into some order or number structure. You cannot apply the measure a second times on its result, as it will not

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 03 Jul 2014, at 20:30, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Jul 2014, at 06:51, Richard Ruquist wrote: Quantum measure is the result of solving Schrodinger's Eq. yielding a different probability for each quantum state and a different me

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi Bruno, Is the measure idempotent ? On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 03 Jul 2014, at 06:51, Richard Ruquist wrote: > > Quantum measure is the result of solving Schrodinger's Eq. > yielding a different probability for each

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 02:30:22PM -0400, Richard Ruquist wrote: > > It seems that the measure of the reals and the quantum measure and the comp > measure are three different things. > Richard > They are three different measures, but all satisfy the measure axioms. What I was trying to get at w

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 03 Jul 2014, at 06:51, Richard Ruquist wrote: > > Quantum measure is the result of solving Schrodinger's Eq. > yielding a different probability for each quantum state > and a different measure for each different scenario > unlike the in

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 03 Jul 2014, at 06:51, Richard Ruquist wrote: Quantum measure is the result of solving Schrodinger's Eq. yielding a different probability for each quantum state and a different measure for each different scenario unlike the invariant measure of the reals. Do you disagree? Richard The qua

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Quantum measure is the result of solving Schrodinger's Eq. yielding a different probability for each quantum state and a different measure for each different scenario unlike the invariant measure of the reals. Do you disagree? Richard On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Russell Standish wrote: >

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 12:23:35AM -0400, Richard Ruquist wrote: > On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Russell Standish > wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 01, 2014 at 04:30:52PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > > Hi Russell, > > > > > > Ah! I don't quite grok it completely, but thank you for this example

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Jul 01, 2014 at 04:30:52PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > Hi Russell, > > > > Ah! I don't quite grok it completely, but thank you for this example. We > > had to assume an already existing measure on the Reals. Where does tha

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Tue, Jul 01, 2014 at 04:30:52PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Hi Russell, > > Ah! I don't quite grok it completely, but thank you for this example. We > had to assume an already existing measure on the Reals. Where does that > come from? > The standard measure on the reals is based on the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi Russell, Ah! I don't quite grok it completely, but thank you for this example. We had to assume an already existing measure on the Reals. Where does that come from? On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 08:32:37PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote:

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 08:32:37PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Hi Russell, > >I don't get it. How does the constraint of a finite sample overcome the > inherent zero measure? > Because a finite constraint matches an infinite number of zero measure items. Consider the set of real numbe

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi Russell, I don't get it. How does the constraint of a finite sample overcome the inherent zero measure? On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:58 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 06:44:20PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > Hi Russell, > > > >Let me rephrase. You wrote: " W

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 06:44:20PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Hi Russell, > >Let me rephrase. You wrote: " With COMP, the chance of our > physical reality appearing in UD* is 1. The only way it could be zero > is if COMP is false." > > ​​ >I never understood where the measure 1 com

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi Russell, Let me rephrase. You wrote: " With COMP, the chance of our physical reality appearing in UD* is 1. The only way it could be zero is if COMP is false." ​​ I never understood where the measure 1 comes from unless we first take the existence of an observer to be completely defined

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 06:12:05PM -0400, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Hi, > >Bruno wrote previously "...the physical reality has to be given by the > measure on all computations." Would this not imply that physical reality > has a zero measure? > > My point is that given that the chance of t

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi, Bruno wrote previously "...the physical reality has to be given by the measure on all computations." Would this not imply that physical reality has a zero measure? My point is that given that the chance of the occurrence of a physical universe that matches one that can be modeled as some

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 30 Jun 2014, at 01:20, meekerdb wrote: On 6/29/2014 1:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Note that it is an arithmetical fact that arithmetic emulates all simulations. Saying that some of those are more real than other is a metaphysical assumption, and MGA shows that it is a gap-of-the- god

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 30 June 2014 15:50, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/29/2014 10:41 AM, John Clark wrote: > > Only if a change in your quantum state causes a discontinuity in your > consciousness, but your quantum state changes hundreds of thousands of > millions of billions of trillions of times a second. And by the w

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 6/29/2014 10:41 AM, John Clark wrote: Only if a change in your quantum state causes a discontinuity in your consciousness, but your quantum state changes hundreds of thousands of millions of billions of trillions of times a second. And by the way, what does a "discontinuity in your consciousn

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 30 June 2014 11:20, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/29/2014 1:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Note that it is an arithmetical fact that arithmetic emulates all > simulations. Saying that some of those are more real than other is a > metaphysical assumption, and MGA shows that it is a gap-of-the-god ty

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 6/29/2014 1:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Note that it is an arithmetical fact that arithmetic emulates all simulations. Saying that some of those are more real than other is a metaphysical assumption, and MGA shows that it is a gap-of-the-god type of assumption. But it is not a physical fa

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

> > > in effect the non-cloning theorem prevents saying "yes" to the doctor if > you insist on there being no discontinuity in your consciousness. > Only if a change in your quantum state causes a discontinuity in your consciousness, but your quantum state changes hundreds of thousands of millions

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 26 Jun 2014, at 05:51, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 15:44, meekerdb wrote: On 6/25/2014 8:38 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 15:25, meekerdb wrote: On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 26 June 2014 16:10, meekerdb wrote: > That isn't the reason I gave. I pointed out that for the consciousness of > the MGA to be achieved it had to consciousness of a world and that world > had to have a physics and the consciousness then depended on events and > processes in that physics. So

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 6/25/2014 8:51 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 15:44, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/25/2014 8:38 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 15:25, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 09:08, meeker

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 26 June 2014 15:44, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/25/2014 8:38 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 26 June 2014 15:25, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> Now I know Bruno will say thi

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 6/25/2014 8:38 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 15:25, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 26 June 2014 15:25, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but >>> the point is that it's not just the level which

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 4:08 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > >> Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the >> point is that it's not just the level which is sufficient for interaction >> with neurons, but also the level which capt

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the point is that it's not just the level which is sufficie

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the >> point is that it's not just the level which is sufficient for interaction >> with neurons, but also the level which captures interac

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 26 June 2014 05:29, meekerdb wrote: > So in effect the non-cloning theorem prevents saying "yes" to the doctor > if you insist on there being no discontinuity in your consciousness. The > Moscow man and the Washington man will be in different quantum states even > before they step out of the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the point is that it's not just the level which is sufficient for interaction with neurons, but also the level which captures interaction with 'external' or 'environmenta

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 12:29 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/19/2013 1:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 2:36 PM, John Mikes wrote: > >> Here is my tuppence about the *hoax-game* of the *fantasy-play* >> 'teleportation': >> It is what I said, never substantiated and placed

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/19/2013 1:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 2:36 PM, John Mikes > wrote: Here is my tuppence about the *hoax-game* of the *fantasy-play* 'teleportation': It is what I said, never substantiated and placed into circumstances never sub

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 29 Dec 2013, at 16:12, Stephen Paul King wrote: I think that you are reading too much into what I wrote. Interleaving. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 7:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Dec 2013, at 17:07, Stephen Paul King wrote: I agree with what you wrote to Richard. If we then con

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 1/2/2014 12:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: On 1/1/2014 4:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jan 2014, at 01:18, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb > wrote: On 31 De

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Richard, > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 3:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 1/1/2014 4:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> snip > > >> I disagree with this. Everett did propose a

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Richard, On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 3:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: On 1/1/2014 4:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: snip I disagree with this. Everett did propose a new theory. It is SWE, that is QM without collapse. *All* interpretations of it ar

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 3:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: > > On 1/1/2014 4:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 01 Jan 2014, at 01:18, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 31 Dec

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote: On 1/1/2014 4:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jan 2014, at 01:18, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: But I feel that you must already know this. Are

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:35, meekerdb wrote: On 1/1/2014 3:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:27, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 21:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 1/1/2014 11:46 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 3:22 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/31/2013 7:19 PM, LizR wrote: That sounds a bit like multi-solipsism - and a bit like Kant (?) indicating that we can never know the "thing in it

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 1/1/2014 4:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jan 2014, at 01:18, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: But I feel that you must already know this. Are y

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 1/1/2014 3:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:27, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 21:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does "fundamental leve

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 3:22 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/31/2013 7:19 PM, LizR wrote: > >> That sounds a bit like multi-solipsism - and a bit like Kant (?) >> indicating that we can never know the "thing in itself" only our >> interpretation of it. >> >> (Actually isn't that also what comp says?)

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 01 Jan 2014, at 01:18, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: But I feel that you must already know this. Are you just being Devil's Advocate, or do you honestly not see the usefulness of multiv

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:58, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Brent, It is only vicious if there is no time. For example: Math->Physics->Biology->Evolution->Humans->Culture->Science->Math' - >Physics' -> ... That spiral too in the UD*, but the Brent's circles also. Without any paradox involved.

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:27, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 21:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does "fundamental level" mean? Does there have to be "someth

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/31/2013 7:19 PM, LizR wrote: That sounds a bit like multi-solipsism - and a bit like Kant (?) indicating that we can never know the "thing in itself" only our interpretation of it. (Actually isn't that also what comp says?) I think that's what science has taught metaphysics. We make up

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

That sounds a bit like multi-solipsism - and a bit like Kant (?) indicating that we can never know the "thing in itself" only our interpretation of it. (Actually isn't that also what comp says?) On 1 January 2014 14:39, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/31/2013 4:47 PM, LizR wrote: > > I don't know abo

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/31/2013 4:47 PM, LizR wrote: I don't know about the SBI, unless I know it under a different name - please explain? The subjective Bayesian interpretation is what Jason dismisses as "don't ask". It's the interpretation advocated by Asher Peres (who's excellent textbook is available onli

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 1 January 2014 13:18, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: >> >>> >>> But I feel that you must already know this. Are you just being Devil's >>> Advocate, or do you honestly not see the u

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: But I feel that you must already know this. Are you just being Devil's Advocate, or do you honestly not see the usefulness of mu

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi Brent, It is only vicious if there is no time. For example: Math->Physics->Biology->Evolution->Humans->Culture->Science->Math' ->Physics' -> ... The knowledge evolves in time. On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 4:27 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/31/2013 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 30 D

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb wrote: > On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: > >> >> But I feel that you must already know this. Are you just being Devil's >> Advocate, or do you honestly not see the usefulness of multiverse theories? >> > > Partly playing Devil's Advocate - but doing so beca

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: But I feel that you must already know this. Are you just being Devil's Advocate, or do you honestly not see the usefulness of multiverse theories? Partly playing Devil's Advocate - but doing so because I'm not convinced that Everett's MWI is the last wor

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/31/2013 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 21:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does "fundamental level" mean? Does there have to be "something fundamental"? Fundamental is often used i

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 Dec 2013, at 17:37, Stephen Paul King wrote: On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 19:44, meekerdb wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomor

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 1:44 PM, meekerdb wrote: > But "Everything happens" is just as useless as "God did it". > Not quite, it might not explain much but at least the "Everything happens" theory doesn't make the problem worse. The "everything happens because God made things that way" theory is

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 30 Dec 2013, at 19:44, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: > > On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > wrote: > >> Dear Bruno, >> >>Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of >> com

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Not at all! On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:11 AM, LizR wrote: > ...or am I??? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/1NWmK1I

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: On 31 December 2013 07:44, meekerdb wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers and physical rea

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 30 Dec 2013, at 21:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does "fundamental level" mean? Does there have to be "something fundamental"? Fundamental is often used in two senses. either as "very important".

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 30 Dec 2013, at 19:44, meekerdb wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers and physical realities? That way we can avoid a lot of

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

...or am I??? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-li

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 December 2013 16:20, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/30/2013 6:09 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 31 December 2013 07:44, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > > wrote: >> >>> Dear Bruno, >>> >>>Why do you not consider an isom

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/30/2013 7:44 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear Brent, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/30/2013 6:09 PM, LizR wrote: On 31 December 2013 07:44, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, Liz

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Dear Brent, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/30/2013 6:09 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 31 December 2013 07:44, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > > wrote: >> >>> Dear Bruno, >>> >>>Why do you

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/30/2013 6:09 PM, LizR wrote: On 31 December 2013 07:44, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com>> wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider

RE: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of LizR Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:19 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ? On 31 December 2013 09:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi LizR, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:53 PM, LizR wrote: > On 31 December 2013 15:37, Stephen Paul King > wrote: > >> >> Why is this necessary? Sure, physics has come a long way since Democritus >> and his Atoms in a void. But we have reached a point where that way of >> thinking fails. Look at S

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 December 2013 15:37, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > Why is this necessary? Sure, physics has come a long way since Democritus > and his Atoms in a void. But we have reached a point where that way of > thinking fails. Look at Superstrings, no empirical evidence of anything > measurable there...

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Hi LizR, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:19 PM, LizR wrote: > On 31 December 2013 09:43, Stephen Paul King > wrote: > >> Dear LizR and Brent, >> >> I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does >> "fundamental level" mean? Does there have to be "something fundamental"? >>

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 December 2013 09:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Dear LizR and Brent, > > I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does > "fundamental level" mean? Does there have to be "something fundamental"? > Consider Leibniz' monadology: strip it of the anthropocentrism and >

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 31 December 2013 07:44, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: > > On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > wrote: > >> Dear Bruno, >> >>Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of >> computer/universal-numbers >> and physical realities? That way

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does "fundamental level" mean? Does there have to be "something fundamental"? Consider Leibniz' monadology: strip it of the anthropocentrism and religiosity and one obtains a nice "any one thing is made from c

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King > wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category ofcomputer/universal-numbers and physical realities? That way we can avoid a lot of

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 30 Dec 2013, at 09:02, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers and physical realities? Gibve me the axioms. I know the dominical categories (of Turing morphism), but just to get the definition ne

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Dear Bruno, > > Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of > computer/universal-numbers > and physical realities? That way we can avoid a lot of problems! >I think that it is because of your insistence of the Platonic

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 29 Dec 2013, at 21:47, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 14:52, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Bruno, Glad we agree that decoherence falsifies collapse. That's a good start! But decoherence also falsifies MW. Non collapse = many-worlds, to me. If

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers and physical realities? That way we can avoid a lot of problems! I think that it is because of your insistence of the Platonic view that the material/physical realm is somehow lesser in ontol

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 29 Dec 2013, at 20:30, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 5:59 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Liz, Reality doesn't seem to have any difficulty computing the results of random choices. If reality computes, then reality is a computer/universal-number. If reality is physical reality, then this is

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/29/2013 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 14:52, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Bruno, Glad we agree that decoherence falsifies collapse. That's a good start! But decoherence also falsifies MW. Non collapse = many-worlds, to me. If I make a quantum choice, by QM, I will put myse

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/29/2013 5:59 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Liz, Reality doesn't seem to have any difficulty computing the results of random choices. That's how practically all computations occur. If we assume, or define, reality as computational then reality is computing random results by definition. It's ob

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Bruno, To answer your last question please refer to the new topic I just started "Another stab at how spacetime emergences computationally" or something like that. I forget exactly how I titled it... Best, Edgar On Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:36:05 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 D

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 29 Dec 2013, at 15:19, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Jason, O, for God's sakes! You believe souls exist? I thought this was supposed to be a scientific forum! I guess *you* take seriously some theory of soul, to be so sure that it does not exist, or could not have any sense. "soul" is often

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 29 Dec 2013, at 14:52, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Bruno, Glad we agree that decoherence falsifies collapse. That's a good start! But decoherence also falsifies MW. Non collapse = many-worlds, to me. If I make a quantum choice, by QM, I will put myself in a superposition and execute the tw

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Jason, O, for God's sakes. No wonder you believe in block time, MW, the nonexistence of the present moment and the tooth fairy!;-) Just wait till I present my theory of consciousness! Edgar On Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:04:31 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Dec 29, 2013, at 8:19 AM, "Edg

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Dec 29, 2013, at 8:19 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" wrote: Jason, O, for God's sakes! You believe souls exist? I do. I think many accepted and leading theories in science suggest that the "soul" for lack of a better word. It is that each of us has that feels and experiences, it is immaterial,

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >> With Quantum Mechanics NOTHING is a wave function, that is to say no >> observable quantity is. The wave function is a calculation device of no >> more reality than lines of longitude and latitude. If you want to talk >> about reality you'v

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Dear Bruno, I think that you are reading too much into what I wrote. Interleaving. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 7:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 28 Dec 2013, at 17:07, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > I agree with what you wrote to Richard. If we then consider interactions > between multiple sep

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 29 Dec 2013, at 02:26, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Stephen, In a sense that's correct, they are actions and the actions are the computations, but they aren't physical, at least in the usual sense. Computations are not physical. I agree. They are arithmetical notion. But I can't understand wha

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 28 Dec 2013, at 22:40, John Mikes wrote: Dear Bruno, when you wrote: "...arithmetic > number's dreams => physics OK? Physics is based on experience, but not on human one. And experiences are based on arithmetic/computer-science..." for the 'unbiased reader ' you started to seem (p

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Jason, O, for God's sakes! You believe souls exist? I thought this was supposed to be a scientific forum! Edgar On Saturday, December 28, 2013 11:24:04 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Edgar L. Owen > > wrote: > > Richard and Stephen, > > ER=EPR will have a h

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Liz, Reality doesn't seem to have any difficulty computing the results of random choices. That's how practically all computations occur. If we assume, or define, reality as computational then reality is computing random results by definition. It's obviously something that reality math does quit

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Bruno, Glad we agree that decoherence falsifies collapse. That's a good start! But decoherence also falsifies MW. First of all you have to understand what a wavefunction is. It's not a physical object. It's a description of a physical object in human math. Basically in QM its formulated as the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 28 Dec 2013, at 19:30, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Not at all. Decoherence falsifies collapse. ? That is my point. Decoherence falsifies collapse. Exactly. Decoherence falsifies many worlds. Decoherence is just the contagion of superposed states to the observer/ environment. It vindicat

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 28 Dec 2013, at 18:32, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote >> How many unique 1-views from 1-view are there on planet Earth right now? Bruno Marchal's answer: Bruno Marchal refuses to answer. > I answered this two times already. The answer is 1. At

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