way
as the roads?
'Safe' for pedestrians to use is simply undefinable as we have already decided
when trying to identify URBAN areas where one would not walk on one's own! MAPS
can't define what is safe. But they should at least show alternatives where
they
are available?
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be pointless?
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there is no point trying to
redesign it ... lets just use it ...
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reasons, and it would be nice to see the state of things at a particular
snapshot in time. Following the development of London for example
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to be specifically identified, and we had this
discussion some years ago when the *_link tags were added!
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road to another, and not just
another road? Tag it motorway when it goes to another motorway where is the
division between motorway and slip road. It needs something to identify the
situation on the ground!
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Anthony wrote:
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk
mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Ed Avis wrote:
Isn't this tagging redundant? If a link road leads from a
primary to a
secondary, or whatever, this can be seen by looking at the tags
with any other tags can carry on working happily with
just the highway tag ...
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of the branding jigsaw.
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Alan Mintz wrote:
At 2010-07-12 23:45, Lester Caine wrote:
...
As others have pointed out, 'brand' may be a better choice of 'name'
in some cases, but in reality there are THREE possible tags in many of
these cases. For example
name=the fancy hotel
brand=best western
operator=the local best
. Perhaps we just have to give
up and simply let them? And publicise the free alternative better ...
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mind still provides the most logical way forward. But at what point does
an historic element get degraded to the secondary storage area? Or more
important ... what classifies historic data as being 'main stream'?
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; in other cases, you might want to show
both historic data and current-day data.
This is the area that we still need to get some agreement on :(
Current rendering does not take any notice of start and stop dates ...
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data you take pleasure in destroying
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as an
alternative to destroying data as it is superseded by changes on the ground. But
one of the rules that does apply is that data that has been generated by others
SHOULD NOT simply be destroyed unless it is inappropriate.
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in the edit history. In my
own databases nothing is deleted ... it simply gets flagged as to it's status
... in fact one has to hand edit the database to actually delete any data. In
OSM terms - we just look at the edit history for the same information.
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, so how does one decided what data stays in the main
database and what is archived? Just retaining all where it is currently stored
just seems the logical way forward to me ... although if a mechanism can be
added for secondary layers ...
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of people working on areas which the general mapping population
seems to think are not appropriate to be uploaded to the master database, but as
yet there seems to be no way to create secondary databases of information which
can be used in parallel but separately hosted.
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Russ Nelson wrote:
Lester Caine writes:
yet there seems to be no way to create secondary databases of
information which can be used in parallel but separately hosted.
Yes, we need*more* OpenStreetMaps from which you can fetch different
types of information. For example, any data which
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2012/1/14 Russ Nelsonnel...@crynwr.com:
Lester Caine writes:
yet there seems to be no way to create secondary databases of
information which can be used in parallel but separately hosted.
Yes, we need *more* OpenStreetMaps from which you can fetch different
anyway? Does mapnik currently respect that?
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these differences that impinges
on this fine detailing of 'industrial area' ... we still have to improve on the
micro-mapping guide lines ...
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genealogical data companies have got on the bandwagon yet, but
the 'spirit of cooperation' that OSM fosters should ensure that all of this data
is freely available especially when it's based on the freely donated work of others!
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are NOW
simply classifying 'undecided' as 'declined' which does seem to be the
recommendation, then what is the point of waiting for the outstanding users to
accept, anyway?
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!
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Richard Fairhurst wrote:
A brief interruption from your scheduled programming.
Haha. I'm an idiot. Sent to the wrong list.
*pours coffee on in effort to wake up*
I did wonder since I though we were being constructive on the thread you had
posted to ;)
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. The smaller patches it's much quicker to
remap than try and get in contact. In MOST cases I've actually replaced the
problem work with a more comprehensive rework anyway ...
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.
In the UK nowadays you will be lucky to find a post office at all ... ;)
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: we probably should be careful to reduce these records to the pure
user count.
'contributing users' who have more than say 10 commits?
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, it does at least pick up the faster roads rather
than routes that are perhaps 0.5km shorter but using roads with many roundabouts
rather than the adjacent motorways or dual carriageways with none.
That and I could not drag the route to use the more practical roads on
Seamonkey.
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did try IE7 but that is just a mess ... the route description comes up in the
wrong place and background boxes are missing.
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that this week, and the other local
blocks such as at Malvern are only fine detail that would probably be better
mapped clean anyway.
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' attaching. I have a
growing collection of maps going back into the 1800's but only an A3 scanner
which is not ideal as it has a lip around the scanning area :(
http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/view/Mapping+Index
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on getting the coastline complete it is
going to be difficult to fix some of these irritations.
I've given up asking for a proper check on hierarchy place and is_in which would
at least get towns in the right country ... rather than relying on the mapped
boundaries ...
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Mike Dupont wrote:
2012/4/1 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk
Altin Ukshini wrote:
Does anyone care about these reports ?
I said it before and I'm saying it again, we can't monitor/administer
the map
everyday and you know this, we
there was some vandalism prior to the database going to read-only :(
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not actually costing them anything? They would be putting the images up
anyway, so THEY are the only ones who gain by getting back free vectorized data?
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it scanned in :(
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. Adding tags for
sidewalk, cycletrack and other details such as barriers between carriageways is
something that should just happen automatically from the real mapped features?
Not something that needs to be created manually ignoring the features themselves ...
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colliar wrote:
On 22/05/12 12:13, Lester Caine wrote:
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2012/5/21 Rob Nickersonrob.j.nicker...@gmail.com:
p.s. Personally I feel that cycle TRACKS would be much easier to map if
drawn as a separate highway=cycleway (despite any challenges the
renderers
back to fixing the errors!
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yet.
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' that has resulted from the exercise that is more important.
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the ICO has changed the advise again in June it
HAS also said that it will not be taking action against anybody any time soon,
so sitting on hands is probably equally safe at the moment.
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and cleaned the
data, but we need local contributor to do that in their own area. The new map
data is now totally compliant with the more open license and any new data will
have to remain complaint. So the only reason data has gone missing is because
nobody has bothered to clean it up :(
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:(
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osm map following the
'map what is on the ground' rule ...
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clear on my post ;)
BUT we do still need some flag which indicate what language is used on the sign
we are looking at!!!
I would not be so blinkered to insist that the main map is 'English' - this
should always be 'on the ground', but an 'English' layer would be nice :)
--
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tag for many objects so if you
go to open.mapquest.com which prefers English names you should be fine ;)
But I would still need to know what was on the signs as well if I went there :)
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. The map needs to
correspond with the observed real world. If street signs in Ukraine are
in Russian, then the tagged name should be in Russian. When the signs
are changed to Ukrainian, then that is the time to re-tag.
Nicely put ...
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for selection, but I could make a
case for two overlays on the main map, one in english? With links to tile sets
in other languages?
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is a
rendering problem, so mapping xx^yy ( or what ever ) to name:xx - name:yy would
be conversion problem anyway, and may involve RTL conversion as well ... what
does one do with a pair of names with reverse directions?
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Petr Morávek [Xificurk] wrote:
Lester Caine wrote:
colliar wrote:
I also prefer the name that is on the sign, but we should think about
always
adding the name with its language tag, too, otherwise it is not clear
which
language is used and you have to get this information from some other
with an appropriate list if required. I don't think
you want to start messing with 'name=' itself in this case? But the tools should
be able to override the 'name=' tag with a more suitable local option based on a
local 'lang=' setting.
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in
general terms?
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anyway if only to identify the languages that appear in 'name=' so that
we can then translate them correctly?
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to keeping
data and format separate ...
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... or so?
That is the lang=xx tag for a higher level area, but we probably need
official_lang and local_lang :)
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...
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that
explains that one of two signs is wrong, but until what is visible on the ground
is changed, the base information is well defined - even if it is totally wrong
:) And that applies everywhere in the world ... EVEN if some local authority try
to dictate otherwise.
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not to render anything since that is the case on the
ground. Translated options for names can then be freely used for translated maps.
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these sort of things are discussed :(
ANY change to tagging should be approved on the tagging list only?
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of our content only, but I think the work involved with adding that would
probably have taken another couple of years? :(
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, and then merges from that can easily be identified to the user actually
making the changes. That perhaps is not obvious these days?
We need to cooperate and agree the best way of doing things, but we do still
have a way to go to get systems that work world wide.
--
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overlay system so this sort of raw data can be imported and
then processed where we can all review it.
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to be merged in some way? Certainly a
large section of the OS data is only useful as reference material and any import
is only going to obliterate more accurate data, so having it available as an
overlay works well.
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are applied to the main database.
Some better involvement of local groups would be useful here I think?
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of an area but is totally ignored as a valid reason
for not 'blanked wiping' an area to allow new data to be uploaded! Merging new
imports with existing data is difficult, so tends not to happen, delete and
reload is the quick fix but is destroying often valuable data :(
--
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is some mechanism in the editors to keep the maximum commit down to a certain
size? Any 'local import' would be restricted to what is a manageable size once
committed? The time warnings should restrict things, but a 'size' limit so that
one has to commit once that limit is reached?
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are protecting other peoples work ...
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historic data has been lost. I'm in the second camp ...
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or so, not
after 2 days work. The CORRECT procedure would have been to take a block of
buildings at a time. If you have to delete the existing data then at least it's
more easily linked to the new smaller import.
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Marc Sibert wrote:
Le 18/09/2012 23:24, Lester Caine a écrit :
Marc Sibert wrote:
Again, I'm not a vandal : I do not detroy any work (and nobody complains about
that), I just update data (replace), that is not the point why my account was
blocked !
So, what have you done in my case
...
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to the data source!
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we
get the go ahead to merge it with OSM. So I should probably be offering to help
assess what is needed to support the French data import. Except my French is so
bad that I'd not know where to start ;)
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SHOULD have been having
this discussion in March? And been helping you at that stage to better manage
the use of this data? There is a lot of good expertise available so the one
thing we do NOT want is smaller groups doing their own thing :(
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not alone in feeling
that this has fallen a little behind in this case? That said, the whole
Catalogue *IS* due for an overhaul :(
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than
some vague tag on a roadway meters away from it. Provided that we all follow the
same rules when adding this sort of fine detail.
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the local community some of their own autonomy should not allow them to
rubber stamp changes that remove this simply courtesy to other mappers to
identify 'importing' over 'mapping'?
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practical experience of handing this type of import, how about contributing
to the overhaul? Actually where is THAT being debated?
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, and currently is still the best way to
identify things until a more rugged solution is provided - centrally!
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side! - it is just a matter of
miss-understanding what people are saying? On both sides?
Lets move all this energy into fixing the process and getting a robust mechanism
moving forward!
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don't have the information to suggest
anything else :( In the case of the UK data we know how, we are just not allowed
to yet double :(
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sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote:
We can get back to the topic of governance and discussion about those laws and
who decide them, and how.
Or just get back to fixing the process in the first place?
SO we have less chance of misinterpreting the 'guidelines'?
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Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
On 20/09/2012 13:18, Lester Caine wrote:
Go on wiping and reloading every time the source data is updated and manually
merging everything.
Sounds ugly doesn't it ? Because it is. Wouldn't it be much better if each
building from the cadastre had a UUID that could
data I'm being
supplied, and now the sources are using my id's to improve their end.
Unfortunately not usable mapping stuff though.
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code that only needs some local filtering to work
with a particular import? Isn't it better where we HAVE vector data to make the
best use of it, and then spend our time enhancing the details ... like adding
road names and house numbers?
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database. Rather than
the quite heroic efforts that are currently being used to import them?
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Béland Pierre wrote:
2012-09-20 Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk
Comment fields are not documented as well as they should be and the 'problem'
that instigated this thread is to my view of what's
on line a very good example of why there WAS a problem. Correctly flagging
information
of OGD data in multiple formats will be merged into a
coherent whole? And perhaps some of that data will only be accessible on
secondary servers as overlays?
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-headache
Begs the question - are any of the OSM routing options iPhone friendly?
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L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital
been lost, so there is no way to identify them from new
buildings that only appear in the latest import ...
With all the historic mapping now available we have the option to add historic
dates to objects as well ... without interfering with anybody else?
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
that identifies conflicts that need a human eye. Isn't it better to spend time
working out a GOOD way of using the data going forward rather than having to
manually merge the whole lot again in a couple of years time ... and every
couple of years.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
Paul Norman wrote:
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
who last edited an object! ). Where the import HAS nice unique object
identifiers things are a lot easier, but raw vector data like the French
import, and I think
Paul Norman wrote:
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:47 PM
To: 'OSM'
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Paul Norman wrote:
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal
'
but are happy to just take other peoples?
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow
.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
spot the areas to go down
through the levels. This may be easier in the short term as simple snapshot
views as images, but to be able to retain live OSM as a background?
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic
complex import data or keep the
simplified view? Manual intervention on the merge process.
BUT it does make more sense to me to keep the bulk of this imagery ON a separate
database since displaying it or not should be optional at the viewer?
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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