Stus-List Re: Outhaul
I recommend installing a purchase of some kind inside the boom—my 1995 36XL came that way from the factory—either 3 or 4 to 1. Out haul is then led to a simple cam cleat on the companionway ‘bridge’—no winch involved. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, May 23, 2024, 1:13 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Our C 34R came with a short wire outhaul that we added a 4:1 purchase that lives inside the boom. A 3/8" line exits the goosneck and is run back to a clutch next to the companionway. You can tension the outhaul by hand instead of using a winch, this way. Harken shows a diagram of this setup on their website. Chuck S Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Non Starting Universal / Westerbeke 5416
Failed electric fuel pump (if engine has one) or failed (or faulty) mechanical lift fuel pump. Otherwise some fuel line problem between fuel filter (or wherever your fuel system provides a means to bleed your fuel line) and injector pump or the injector pump might be bad. After 44 years, your head gasket might have given up. This could cause lack of compression and thus no ignition of the non-compressed fuel. FWIW-I am not a diesel or other mechanic but have had my share of fuel issues with my Beta 28 over the 25 years I have been messing with it! Charlie NelsonC 36 XL/kcb 1995Water Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, May 17, 2024, 10:39 PM, Todd Williams via CnC-List wrote: Looking for some input on my non starting Universal / Westerbeke diesel 5416 on my 1980 C& C 34. It was running great at the end of last year but no go from the start this year. It turns over great but no sounds of combustion. Battery is brand new. Oil and transmission fluids are at proper levels and fresh. It sounds like the glow plugs are working because the blower changes pitch with the increased current draw. Fuel looks good, checked pickup for debris, changed fuel filter, bled lines. I did have some electrical work done at the wiring harness but I don’t think that would affect it. I am thinking either I need to look at the injectors and injector pump or I need to do a compression test. I’ve read about both in online forums but haven’t had the “opportunity” to dig this far into engine troubles. Any input from the group on other diagnostic tests or possible sources of the issue? Thanks in advance. TODDIndigo Out We Go1980 C 34Saco, MEPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Bilge pump breaker issue
FWIW, this problem was caused by a short within the Water Wizard (?) electronic float switch which was found to have an internal short, thus throwing the bilge pump breaker. It looks like the water tight seal for the wires of the Water Wizard gave it up and allowed water inside, shorting the circuit. Since I never trust the bilge pump or anything else attached to it when I am away from the boat, I removed the switch and the pump works fine--when I turn the breaker on while on board. Another example why I do not power anything on board when I am not on board. My previous adventure with a float switch failure (mechanical then) ran the bilge pump continuously while the shore power was replenishing the power losses from the battery. After x hours (or days?) of this, the Zantex battery charger burned through an on board resister and stopped charging the batteries which were subsequently drained completely by the time I returned to the boat. If not for the resister (sacrificial maybe), the Zantex might have caught fire and burned the boat to the waterline. Since then NOTHING electrical is ever left on when no one is on board. Charlie NelsonC 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom On Sunday, April 7, 2024, 10:09:55 PM EDT, cenelson--- via CnC-List wrote: My bilge pump breaker has recently started to disconnect immediately after being switched on. I suspect my rule pump has failed and developed a short to ground although it might be a wire that has either shorted or it might be the water witch float switch. My thought is to just replace the pump and see if that does it—I have an identical spare pump on board. BTW, I never rely on the float switch when away from the boat—so this breaker is always off unless I am on board. Other suggestions from listers are welcome. Thanks, Charlie NelsonC 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Racor 500MA question
Aside from replacing the Racor filter regularly, I think it’s a good idea to drain the bowl when you change the filter. I usually change this filter yearly when I change the fuel filters on my Beta 28.But it is possible for gunk to build up in the bowl which is mostly transparent but can cause fuel issues. I discovered this during a ‘fuel adventure’ a few years ago when I was investigating repeated engine stalls during a long motoring from Ocracoke back to Oriental. I tried to drain the bowl (with the top off and filter out) and nothing came out the drain. Only after I plunged a screwdriver up thru the clogged drain did I get it to drain. The clog was apparently just congealed fuel/dirt but you could not see it thru the clear bowl since it was mostly transparent and was not obvious compared to the diesel fuel color. FWIW, I now at least check that fuel will flow out the drain during a filter change. Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcb Water Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, April 26, 2024, 2:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: When the engine is not running, vacuum still sometimes shows. When I remove the gauge, it should drop to zero. It's on my list to verify that. I plan to spend a bit of time investigating this.-- Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 12:03 PM Doug Mountjoy via CnC-List wrote: Dennis, I didn't know there was a check valve in the filter. Since I have 2 Racor filters I put a tee and gauge in the fuel line after the filters. I have not noticed the gauge acting strange. But then I don't look at it often. You might try relocating the gauge. I would think that once the engine is not longer sucking fuel the gauge should go back to zero. Douglas Mountjoy 1988 C LF 39 Mexico at large 1984 Sabre 34 Port Orchard, WA Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Standing Rigging
Sad but true—my local rigger never looked either and no survey was involved. Mostly folklore IMHO (the necessity of replacing the rigging after 20-30 years)but liability for their work(company, individual, etc.) is likely a large part of reasons for replacing it. I am sure I stressed mine a few times while racing inshore for many years. With no plans to ever go offshore, I probably could have done nothing without serious consequences. Nonetheless I didn’t want to take the chances—folklore or not! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1996 C 36 XL/Kobe Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, April 15, 2024, 8:01 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: I so need to move – that would probably cost $25,000 around here! Also I found out the rigging shops I called for a survey on that C 40 I looked at would all fail the rigging without even seeing it due to age even if it looked brand new. They were pretty sure they couldn’t do a proper look without doing enough damage to make replacement needed after the survey even if it wasn’t before☹ Joe Coquina From: cenelson--- via CnC-List Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2024 9:02 AM To: Stus-List Cc: sai...@comcast.net; cenel...@aol.com Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Standing Rigging I replaced it on my 1995 36 XL/kcb a few years ago. IIRC, total material and labor and shipping was about $7000. This included the rigging and removal of old and installation of new. Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Sunday, April 14, 2024, 8:29 AM, sail51--- via CnC-List wrote: Does anyone have recent experience with replacing standing rigging on a C 40 or 41 that could provide a rough estimate of cost to do and how was cost broken down between materials and installation? Thks Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Standing Rigging
I replaced it on my 1995 36 XL/kcb a few years ago. IIRC, total material and
labor and shipping was about $7000.
This included the rigging and removal of old and installation of new.
Charlie Nelson
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Sunday, April 14, 2024, 8:29 AM, sail51--- via CnC-List
wrote:
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Does anyone have recent experience with replacing standing rigging on a C 40
or 41 that could provide a rough estimate of cost to do and how was cost broken
down between materials and installation?
Thks
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help
me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help
me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Stus-List Re: Bilge pump breaker issue
Thanks Dave and Joel for your suggestions—easy to check with multimeter or without. I can’t remember how long it’s been since I replaced the pump/switch so I doubt it’s the wiring which has been securely zip-tied to my centerboard pennant ‘tube’ for the same unknown years. Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, April 8, 2024, 10:08 AM, Dave S wrote: Use a multimeter to measure resistance, +12v to ground, from the load (pump) side of the breaker, with the breaker open, and the float switch open. It should show infinite resistance. If it shows very low or no resistance, you have a short. Disconnect the pump/switch. If the problem persists, it’s not the pump, it’s the wiring. If there IS infinite resistance, then close the switch. You should see the motor’s resistance. If you see zero resistance, the Pump has likely developed a short. Change the pump. Similarly, You can also disconnect the pump, and measure the wiring and the pump’s resistance separately. Same idea. Dave Ex 33-2 Sent from my iPhone On Apr 7, 2024, at 10:09 PM, cenelson--- via CnC-List wrote: My bilge pump breaker has recently started to disconnect immediately after being switched on. I suspect my rule pump has failed and developed a short to ground although it might be a wire that has either shorted or it might be the water witch float switch. My thought is to just replace the pump and see if that does it—I have an identical spare pump on board. BTW, I never rely on the float switch when away from the boat—so this breaker is always off unless I am on board. Other suggestions from listers are welcome. Thanks, Charlie NelsonC 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Bilge pump breaker issue
My bilge pump breaker has recently started to disconnect immediately after being switched on. I suspect my rule pump has failed and developed a short to ground although it might be a wire that has either shorted or it might be the water witch float switch. My thought is to just replace the pump and see if that does it—I have an identical spare pump on board. BTW, I never rely on the float switch when away from the boat—so this breaker is always off unless I am on board. Other suggestions from listers are welcome. Thanks, Charlie NelsonC 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
I moved my original Lewmar 50 winches and added additional Lewmar 44 winches to my 1995 36XL/Kcb and added backing plates to all of them but did not glass the plates in place—this would have required destruction of a lot more of the interior headliner. I had used starboard previously but this would have required a fair bit of cutting since the starboard came in 2x2’ or 2x4’ sheets and I wanted a plate 1/2” thick. A little net searching led me to using red oak boards which could be had in the widths necessary (so I only had to cut them to length, not rip them at all.) Of course, even cross cutting such dense wood is not a piece of cake! Instead of glassing them in, I just painted them with a penetrating epoxy to keep them water resistant. (If properly installed, no water should get to them anyway). This type oak is near or at the top of measures of hardness, strength, density, etc. much like the live oak that was used for warships in the days of sail. After 15+ years of use and regular winch maintenance I have seen no evidence of wear or wood rot in these plates and no bending of the deck when pounding to weather in a breeze which was obvious prior to adding these plates. I believe that the deck would give way and the winch with the plate would break free of the boat before the plate would separate from the winch/deck! FWIW Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/Kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, March 23, 2024, 4:42 AM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List wrote: I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing plates. Any other hints and tips? Thanks, Dean BarraWind 1980 C 34 Halifax, NS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Navtec hydraulic backstay - amateur rebuild
Great detailed write-up Dennis! If I had known it was coming, I might have done the equivalent rebuild of my 28 year old Navtec/Sailtec unit myself. Alas, I just picked it up from my local hydraulic shop after a complete rebuild including the internal seals, etc. about 3 weeks ago! Initially the shop claimed there was no longer a rebuild kit available for this old unit but when I picked it up, they told me that Navtec/Sailtec located what they claimed was the last kit in existence on a little used shelf in their shop/warehouse so the shop was able to do a complete rebuild. For reference purposes, the total cost of my rebuild was $652.73, including shipping of kit to NC and NC 7% sales tax. I drove it to and from the shop myself. The equivalent new replacement was north of $2000 and this was the second rebuild of the cylinder in 28 years (by the same shop). It could likely be rebuilt again in another 14 years but that won’t be my problem unless I’m still trying to figure out how to improve my club racing when I ‘m in my 90s! Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Sunday, January 7, 2024, 3:44 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: A fellow boater had a Navtec integral hydraulic backstay adjuster that blew the top seal. As many of you know, this is probably the most common failure for these. Exposure to UV and the elements deteriorates the rod wiper at the top of the cylinder and it's downhill from there. (I recommend a 1/2 washer on top of the cylinder.) This list has been down this road many times. There's always a discussion whether to take the thing to a local hydraulic shop or let Lew Townsend in Seattle rebuild it. For the record, I sent Touche's adjuster to Lew a couple years ago and am a satisfied Lew client. So I called Lew and chatted with him about this "orphan" adjuster. He asked some critical questions. Was I going to keep it as a spare? Was I going to try to auction it? He commented that neither option was particularly economical. H. Then we talked about snow skiing. We're both avid skiers. After some thought, I tended to agree with Lew. Including shipping, a rebuild would be north of $400-500. An expensive gamble to have it sit on eBay for weeks like others I've seen. So I decided to give the rebuild a shot myself. The Navtec seal kit, IF you can find one, is about $200. Philosophically, it's not much more than a manual hydraulic jack that compresses rather than lifts. Internet research turned up a set of rebuild instructions. See here: https://www.plaisance-pratique.com/IMG/pdf/navtec_hydraulik_service_manual.pdf Armed with instructions and a pair of calipers, off I went. Disassembly of the cylinder was fairly straightforward. I found several equivalent seals at mcmaster.com. For those who are really interested, parts below are referenced on Page 8. Part Qty Navtec Mcmaster Price31 2 HJ-2-215 9452K36 $12.08 (Needed 2. Had to buy 100)35 1 HI-005 9505K39 $4.8336 1 HN-002 9403K55 $2.30 Jug of Fram Hydraulic Jack Oil AW32. $10 Reassembly went well. I strapped it between two trees in my backyard and pressured it up. I noticed the thing was leaking from the pump piston. Okay, I pulled the pump handle and piston. The piston rod seal disintegrated when I removed it. Turned out this is a generic U seal with o-ring 1/4x1/2x1/4. Internet search on the Navtec number turned up numerous suppliers. I bought it from Crescent Hydraulics in south Florida. Part Qty Navtec Crescent Price 39 1 12500250-250B P125-00,250-250B $4.05 It's now back between the trees pressured up to 500-700. Hard to tell because the gauge lens is very crazed. But it seems to be holding. I'll know for sure in a couple days. Granted, I did not get into the actual pump assembly and all the check valves, etc. The cylinder walls, rods, etc. seemed to be in excellent condition so no polishing was necessary. So far I'm in it for less than $50. I want to replace the pressure gauge. I can't find a generic one that is equivalent. It needs to be a certain shape for the gauge cover to fit it. It looks like a gauge off a fire extinguisher. Oh. well. A challenge for later. -- Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LAPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List C shirts
I would be in for several rugby shirts as shown. I would also be interested in some polo shirts of similar design and any others (like the 'dry' shirts, etc.) with the same design. Those C in the southern US, etc. would get limited use from a true rugby shirt but a similar designed polo or dry shirt (short or long sleeves) could be worn most of the year. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1990 C 36XL/kcbNew Bern, NCPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Recommendations to rebuild hydraulic cylinders for backstay
Thanks for that information—amazing what expertise is available via the listers—big shoutout to Stu!! My thought is that the shop could source all the o-rings/seals needed but they might not want to bother with the detective work involved and this time would drive up the repair cost. A ‘kit’ probably saves them and the customer this time/trouble. Plus they might need to destroy some of the seals to determine what they need! Thanks again—actually the cylinder is usually released after the boat is in the slip. But I was doing that to relax the rig—never thought the cylinder could use some relaxation as well but it certainly makes sense. Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, November 18, 2023, 9:25 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: Charlie; You are essentially correct in assuming that an hydraulics shop can source the needed parts even though Navtec or other back stay adjuster maker no longer supply a kit. After nearly 40 years experience in the construction machinery and forklift industry, I can confidently say that most any hydraulics shop (or industrial equipment dealer) has the skill set and tools for the job. But they will probably need to identify and source the various wear parts and seals in the pump and cylinder. After all, they normally work on hydraulic cylinders that are designed for 10,000 to 40 or 50,000 PSI pressures and are a lot larger in diameter that what is used on a boat. All hydraulic cylinders leak, even brand new ones. Initially it is very slow leakage primarily around the seal between the piston and the cylinder wall resulting from the pressure differential between the top and bottom of the piston. As the seal wears the leakage gets higher over time. Best to relieve the pressure on your back stay adjuster when you get off the boat. If you leave the adjuster at, say 2000 pounds, and come back two weeks later and see 1500 or 1000 I would not be too worried. One week and dropped to near zero would probably indicate a need for service. The most likely source for wear is environmental contamination coming in through the seal around the piston shaft connected to your backstay, as has already been pointed out. The suggestion to keep the rod clean and maybe put a felt ring around the top of the cylinder as a wiper is a good one to catch the potential contamination and fine dust particles that can cause wear. As the shaft seal wears and lets contamination into the cylinder, you get increased wear on the piston seal and increasing internal pressure leakage over time. I'm not sure that temperatures will have much effect on the life of seals and o-rings. Although I can see that sub zero temperatures could cause some thermal contraction that would exacerbate any small leakage that might already exist when the piston is left under pressure. As far as high temperatures, we're not talking about hundreds of degrees that will destroy the seals, and I wouldn't expect the seals to soften enough to be damaged by friction, but I high temps from southern suns would accelerate the aging of the material to some degree. But one the whole, Charlie, I would guess that 15 years between rebuilds of your adjuster would be pretty normal. Rick Brass Imzadi C 38 mk2 (with an old-style mechanical back stay adjuster using a winch handle) Washington, NC -Original Message- From: Stus-List Sent: Nov 17, 2023 7:14 PM To: Stus-List Cc: cenel...@aol.com Subject: Stus-List Re: Recommendations to rebuild hydraulic cylinders for backstay For the 2nd time in its 30 yr life, I left my Navtec cylinder with the local hydraulic shop for a rebuild. Unfortunately it’s so old that complete rebuild kits are not available but he is replacing what he can with what is available re seals, etc. Since it is basically a manual pump and assuming no scoring or other damage to the metal parts, I think that any disposable parts are either seals or ‘0-rings’ which are likely available in the appropriate sizes and diameters individually from McMaster-Carr. My thought is to tell him to source the individual items and build a rebuild kit himself. OTOH, I have never seen the inside of any hydraulic pump! Am I oversimplifying this or is the hydraulic shop just doing the ‘rebuild’ with what parts of the rebuild are easily and relatively cheaply available to keep the rebuild simple without disassembling and sourcing the parts that would likely be part of a complete rebuild kit? Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, November 17, 2023, 6:27 PM, David Risch via CnC-List wrote: Just go to a local hydraulic shop. Sorry as a Navtech “technician” ripped me off for two “re-builds” in two years at $500 an incompetent rebuild. Construction guys don’t tolerate that crap. $100 once and done. It is just a pump. From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Friday,
Stus-List Re: Recommendations to rebuild hydraulic cylinders for backstay
For the 2nd time in its 30 yr life, I left my Navtec cylinder with the local hydraulic shop for a rebuild. Unfortunately it’s so old that complete rebuild kits are not available but he is replacing what he can with what is available re seals, etc. Since it is basically a manual pump and assuming no scoring or other damage to the metal parts, I think that any disposable parts are either seals or ‘0-rings’ which are likely available in the appropriate sizes and diameters individually from McMaster-Carr. My thought is to tell him to source the individual items and build a rebuild kit himself. OTOH, I have never seen the inside of any hydraulic pump! Am I oversimplifying this or is the hydraulic shop just doing the ‘rebuild’ with what parts of the rebuild are easily and relatively cheaply available to keep the rebuild simple without disassembling and sourcing the parts that would likely be part of a complete rebuild kit? Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, November 17, 2023, 6:27 PM, David Risch via CnC-List wrote: Just go to a local hydraulic shop. Sorry as a Navtech “technician” ripped me off for two “re-builds” in two years at $500 an incompetent rebuild. Construction guys don’t tolerate that crap. $100 once and done. It is just a pump. From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 2:12 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Matthew L. Wolford Subject: Stus-List Re: Recommendations to rebuild hydraulic cylinders for backstay I also like Lew, whom I contacted based on recommendations from this list. That said, he’s not from NJ (far from it), and shipping cost almost as much as the work. Also, the rebuild work I had done was prophylactic, and my unit now has a very minor leak that it didn’t have before. I’m sure he’d fix it if I sent it back. Bottom line: as much as I like Lew, I suggest finding someone local. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 17, 2023, at 1:37 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: Second Lew Townsend. He rebuilt mine after another Navtec rebuilder botched it. Excellent to work with. -- Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 8:55 AM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote: Lew Townsend did all my Navtec hydraulic repairs. Don't know whether he does Sailtec, but you can call him at (206) 498-7282. He does quality work. Others on the list have also used him. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 6:36 AM Allen Miles via CnC-List wrote: Good morning All, Septima has moved from Hampton Roads, VA to Bayville, NJ. Upon arrival we noticed that the hydraulic cylinders for the backstay were leaking. Does anyone have recommendations on a reputable service to rebuild them in the NJ area? They are Sailtec branded. However, the marina we are in refuses to do business with them based on previous bad experiences. Love to support local businesses but also want a quality job. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks and have a great weekend, Allen Miles 30 Mk II, Septima Bayville, NJ Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!qs2Qvcff0x2r9Xu484Io53CdPY1cNhT0tOLx9hjHxOpx03avqPpvzczr7rQ5cI-zSB2xudbFXoqRejPEBjRfjcI$ Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Kite jibing--end for end or dip pole?
Thanks Alan. I presume you used lazy sheets and guys on the kite as well. Certainly a strong case for doing it one way! Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Sunday, November 12, 2023, 5:30 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote: Dip pole is easier and safer. I started using dip pole on my previous boat, an Ericson 2-30, and until I stopped racing a year ago, I continued using dip pole gybes (mor than forty years of racing that way. Alan Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OR On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:03 PM cenelson--- via CnC-List wrote: Hey listers, My 1995 C 36 XL/kcb was originally set-up for dip-pole jibes using an aluminum pole and used the bayonet style fittings. After it disappeared from my storage location, I decided to go with a carbon fiber pole from Forte and fit it for end-for-end jibes since it was now pretty light (~11 lbs). We used it that way but recently we decided to go with the dip-pole jibes with this pole. The consensus was that for this length boat, the dip pole was the way to go. However, I think this may be a carry over in thinking from the days when all poles were aluminum--at some pole length, such a pole length makes the pole too heavy to manhandle on the fore deck.My boat is sort of on the border at 36 feet (actually 35.5). Some local racers suggest using the end for end in light air and the dip pole when the wind is up. Of course then my fore deck crew has to remember how to do the dance with both methods! So what is the opinion of the listers--especially those who race AND use a kite? Thanks, Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!vLy9cDYVbBfYmmXoJWhxc3FQMIjryeoEDvOz4hlVaHkmFd5kHAHalageGPaPW_6c3xI7pP0FOd3lmCY-4Rtc9T4$ Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Kite jibing--end for end or dip pole?
Hey listers, My 1995 C 36 XL/kcb was originally set-up for dip-pole jibes using an aluminum pole and used the bayonet style fittings. After it disappeared from my storage location, I decided to go with a carbon fiber pole from Forte and fit it for end-for-end jibes since it was now pretty light (~11 lbs). We used it that way but recently we decided to go with the dip-pole jibes with this pole. The consensus was that for this length boat, the dip pole was the way to go. However, I think this may be a carry over in thinking from the days when all poles were aluminum--at some pole length, such a pole length makes the pole too heavy to manhandle on the fore deck.My boat is sort of on the border at 36 feet (actually 35.5). Some local racers suggest using the end for end in light air and the dip pole when the wind is up. Of course then my fore deck crew has to remember how to do the dance with both methods! So what is the opinion of the listers--especially those who race AND use a kite? Thanks, Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C
You can get a winch service kit from Lewmar/Defender/West Marine with grease, pawls, springs, etc for a few bucks. Clean them up, replace any bad springs/pawls, light oil on the pawls, grease (from kit) on spindles/teeth (?), reassemble and you will be likely as good as new. There are Lewmar assembly diagrams on-line but if you are careful not to lose any parts AND take one winch apart at a time so the other is there for a guide, and you should be fine. Its one of those dirty jobs but simple enough to do. Once you have done one, the next is much faster plus you don't need any special tools. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 07:20:44 PM EDT, Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List wrote: Mike and others who have provided valuable input, This information on electric is very useful. I wasn't intending to purchase electric in any case due to cost. I went to boat this afternoon. Ashamed to say I did not even know what size the existing winches are. They are Lewmar/England 42ST, likely original to boat, therefore 42 years old. From what I am hearing from everyone, a Lewmar 42ST should be adequate for a C But man, even in 12 knts wind it takes the full strength of two crew to get the last 2 feet in. I was sensing that the winch handle was about to break. After reading more this afternoon, I am sure the winches are way past due for servicing. Lewmar recommends 2 to 3 times a season! This may be part, if not all, of the problem. I suspect the winches were disassembled and greased about 10 to 12 years ago. Before that, who knows. Is a set of 42 year old winches worth disassembling, cleaning, greasing, and reassembling? Will this result in a significant improvement? What parts of the winch typically need to be replaced and can those Lewmar parts be obtained for such an old winch? Thanks again for all the very helpful advice on winch sizes. Jeff Laman1981 C HarmonyLudington, MI From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 2:43 PM To: 'Stus-List' Cc: Hoyt, Mike Subject: Stus-List Electric Winches - Winch Size for C Persistence came to us with Electric Lewmar 43ST winches for the primaries. There were no secondaries. For cruising ease the primaries had been located where secondaries normally would be and the mounting locations for the original primaries were faired and painted over. The second set of manual Lewmar 43ST winches were mounted on the cabin top for use as halyard winches. THIS WAS WAY OVERKILL! ST43 as halyard winches way larger than necessary. Jib trimmers facing backward to trim genoa was awkward to say the least. So we moved the cabin top Lewmar 43ST back to the original primary location and replaced cabin top halyard winches with Lewmar 30ST (Ocean series I believe) This still left us with electric Lewmar 43 ST. First of all an electric winch can be nasty. An inexperienced trimmer can damage the headsail using one. We always had the switches turned off and used as a manual winch. Secondly these were AWFUL to maintain. To service the winches the motor has to be dropped from beneath before the drums can come off to clean and lubricate the gears, pawls, etc … Due to this and due to the lack of accessibility from beneath to do this these winches were rarely serviced and never properly. When running the spinnaker on these secondaries they were stiff and made spin handling more problematic than it should be (due to the lack of east servicing). In the end we traded these to someone with a pilothouse 44 foot boat for a set of new Lewmar 40 ST that are far superior for our purposes. On top of the ease of servicing and better sizing for the boat removing the motors took away a LOT of unnecessary weight Just a story I thought I would share We are very happy with all of our Lewmar winches BTW Mike Hoyt Persistence Halifax, NS From: nausetbeach--- via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:23 PM To: 'Stus-List' Cc: nausetbe...@optonline.net Subject: Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C Some other thoughts: For whatever you decide, believe both WM and Defender have BOGO days on winches during the year which could help reduce the wallet pain. Electric winches are more than a little $ more. Have heard / read good things about Some other thoughts: For whatever you decide, believe both WM and Defender have BOGO days on winches during the year which could help reduce the wallet pain. Electric winches are more than a little $ more. Have heard / read good things about the “eWincher” as a viable alternative for people who do not want to make the investment in electric winches. Brian Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help
Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C
Always have a look for used winches on eBay. If they were used Lewmars, these
are mostly indestructible so used is fine. That is how I got my ST Lewmar 44s
at $500 each. Compared to ~ $2000 each new.
Charlie NelsonWater phantom
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List
wrote:
#yiv6925550827 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Nathan,Thanks for this data
point! I wish it were possible to test run some winches before buying -- hah!
ST50 seems large, but better a little large than two small.Jeff
From: Nathan Post via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 1:00 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Nathan Post
Subject: Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C Hi Jeff,
I replaced my primaries on my 34 with Anderson ST 50 winches in 2000. They seem
sized correctly to me - I certainly wouldn't go smaller. They work fine for
hauling in my 135 Genoa fully loaded up but it is about all a typical crew can
handle by themselves. If I was to do it again, I would pay the extra for Lewmar
Ocean winches of equivalent size or maybe even one size up instead.
Nathan
~~~
Nathan Post
S/V Wisper
1981 C 34 Lynn, MA (currently in Rockport ME)Please show your appreciation
for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.
Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help
me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C
I still have the original headsail winches on my 1995 C 36 XL/kcb--Lewmar 50s self-tailing 2 speed IIRC--although I moved them forward for my local racing needs. I also added a set of Lewmar 44s to make kite handling more reasonable. If this combination of 'power' is not enough, I need to get drop my sails and get into port somewhere!! However, even these winches for the genoa can seem to be underpowered if the helm is not in tune with the headsail as it crosses the boat. I find it especially important to not turn the boat too fast during the tack. The helm needs to turn the wheel slowly, especially within say +/- 10-15 degrees of head to wind, before the genoa begins to fill on the new tack. This will allow most of the new active sheet to be brought in hand over hand with very little pressure on it so that when it fills, there is only a few feet to winch in with a handle. I have found that with a 155% headsail, a 'quick' tack is usually a bad one since the grinders have to seriously grind in too much line with the genoa filled. This is a good example of using better 'timing' during the tack to reduce the serious winching required otherwise. If you are racing, climbing back to close-hauled from a tack that was too fast with the genoa too far out loses a lot of ground to windward to your competitors on every 'fast' tack. BTW, if you add/replace any winches be mindful of where you mount them. My cockpit was originally set up more for cruising so the headsail winches were aft in the cockpit. As I did more club racing, in order to have room in the cockpit for flying a masthead symmetrical kite, I had to move them forward and add a set (44s) to handle the kite. I think the original thought was to fly the kite from winches on the cockpit bulkhead either side of the companionway which were Lewmar 30s. This turned out to be totally underpowered for my kite AND it concentrated too many bodies together at the companionway in each other's way most of the time. Further, even when I moved the 30s to the cockpit coaming aft of the headsail winches, I found the 30s to be underpowered for my kite--thus I replaced them with the 44s. Until I added the 44s, we tried to use the headsail winches for the kite which had plenty of power--however, moving the kite and genoa sheets during racing was much too confusing and time consuming. FWIW Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 10:46:36 AM EDT, Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List wrote: Hello all,I have attempted to search the archives for information and opinions on new primary winches for C, but was not able to locate a discussion. If there has been, my apologies. It has become apparent that the old, Lewmar, self-tailing, 2-spd winches that came on my boat are not adequate -- in a moderate wind with a 155 genoa it takes two crew cranking with all their strength to bring the sheet in far enough. I and the crew are not getting younger, either -- average age about 65 to 70. I don't know the details of gear ratios and power ratio for these old Lewmars, but am investigating so I have that as a reference. If any of you C, or similar sized boat, owners have recommendations for replacement, 2-spd, self-tailing winches, I would be grateful. I frequently sail solo and hope to be able to continue for another 10 to 15 years (if I live to be 80!), so I need to factor that in the decision. Also, any experiences or recommendations for the actual removal and installation would be great too! Thanks. Jeff Laman1981 C HarmonyLudington, MI Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hull painting
I had Water Phantom repainted 10+ years ago with Awlgrip—used Aristo Blue since the Flag Blue original color was so dark as to be almost black and I wanted something brighter. Several years in (5?) after a serious encounter with a piling caused by trying to dock her in a flood tide running perpendicular to the slip, her port side was seriously banged up abeam about 6 ft by 3 ft section. The yard (mostly sailboats) was managed by a former boat painter. He repaired it properly and so well that after he was done, I could not tell where the repair was done with my hands or eyes closeup! Whether he feathered or matched I don’t know but he did it so well it was “…like it never even happen…” as he said his goal was with such repairs. if your painter is capable of such work, you should not be able to see his repair, especially at the 10 ft away distance IMHO. If he is not very skilled, it might be wise to do the entire half hull at a minimum—after all, it’s hard to compare hull sides in or out of the water with one set of eyes! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, August 22, 2023, 12:52 AM, Richard Bush via CnC-List wrote: Hi all, we are in the midst of trying to repair damages to our hull (1985 C 37 CB) which stemmed from another boat parting its dock line in a storm and laying against our hull for 2+ hours, tearing the paint and gelcoat from the waterline to the rub rail. It's a long tale of woe, however, we are nearing the part of our project where painting the hull topsides is being discussed. The boat was painted with Awlgrip about 10 years ago (prior to our ownership), and that finish has held up well. Also, because of the paint being 10 years old, it has been "strongly recommended" that the entire hull be repainted, rather than the damaged area only, with which we agree. I "assumed" that we would go back with the same Awlgrip product, however, the repair people have suggested that Imron would be a better product because scratches and dings can be repaired more easily. They advised that the old Awlgrip would be sanded off and the a base coat and clear coating over the color coat. Does anyone on the list have any experience with Imron paints (marine, of course); or Imron vs Awlgrip: Another qualifier is that our area (Ohio River) is not a big boating community and there are few boating repair facilities here; (getting the boat to the repair facility is a whole other story all by itself!) One last point, is, color; our hull is the C factory white, don;t know the name, but its an off-white almost cream color; we are thinking of going back with flag blue or navy blue; any thoughts here are welcome as well. As always, thank you and let me know if you have any questions! Richard 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584; Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Fw: Re: Centerboard cable diagnostics or replacement
No—in my case the trunk was dented a little on the forward inside section. It was much stronger, evidently, than the relatively thinner board and the yard fixed it up without much cost. I think you could wait till the haul out to have a look. At least then you will be able to do whatever is necessary on the hard. Whatever the cause of your new noise, you do not want to have the cable let go from the up position (depth permitting you might consider leaving it down till you haul). If the cable went then, it would have much less momentum and drama. Falling from the up position has ~ 1000 lbs pivoting on about a 5-6 ft arc which will require a new board fabrication., Getting the board into the trunk required the boat be lowered onto the board in my case and at todays prices probably north of $15000 boat bucks and take several months. Hopefully your problem will be minor in comparison. Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, August 14, 2023, 3:40 PM, Richard Bush via CnC-List wrote: Charlie, thank you for your quick response; if the cable does fail and the centerboard shears off, does it affect the integrity of the hull? Also, I am being hauled out in a week or so, and was waiting to look at it then, but I take it you recommend having someone look at it immediately? Thanks again! Richard Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255 On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 02:02:38 PM EDT, cenelson--- via CnC-List wrote: Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Begin forwarded message: On Monday, August 14, 2023, 12:01 PM, cenel...@aol.com wrote: Hey Richard, My 36XL (1995) has a centerboard rigged identically as yours and I have had the board replaced when my cable parted after ~ 16 years. Thus I am more familiar with my cb than I’d like!! 1. If the sound is ‘new’ and it does this with the board up, something has changed so that the board can swing a little athwartship—puzzling to be sure—since there is likely little room for this given a pretty tight fit between the cb trunk walls and the board sides. Plus, the board pivots on a pin about 4 inches in diameter so again hard to see how it can ‘swing’ even a little? 2. If there is enough visibility in the river, I think the cable could be replaced in the water with a diver after it’s lowered fully (cable stop disabled so the board hangs further forward than in the normal down position). Finding a diver willing to do this is another matter! 3. Given the consequences of a failed cable, pivot pin, etc. I recommend that you get a diver to at least have a good look while you are on board to move the board up and down. If your cable fails in the board up position, the weighted board will fall, hitting the forward part of the trunk with such force that it likely will shear the board off the pin as the board continues forward and down to the bottom. Definitely not a fun day on the water—no need to ask how I know!! Good luck! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, August 14, 2023, 4:09 AM, Richard Bush via CnC-List wrote: Hi all; I have a 1985 C 37 with a centerboard; with the boat tied at the dock (we are at a fixed dock on a river) we notice a thunk sound that seems to be centerboard moving side-to-side when there was wave action; however, the centerboard cable remains tight and in its usual position (the centerboard is normally on the "up" position, with the cable connected to a rope line which is on a cabin top winch. The line was replaced with new line last winter and is in good condition). We were not able to see the bottom of the keel because the river water is too murky. Does anyone have any suggestions or information about replacing the centerboard cable; can this be done in the water with a diver? Any other ideas welcome, thank you. Richard 1985 C 37, CB; Ohio River, Mile 584. Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bi
Stus-List Fw: Re: Centerboard cable diagnostics or replacement
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Begin forwarded message: On Monday, August 14, 2023, 12:01 PM, cenel...@aol.com wrote: Hey Richard, My 36XL (1995) has a centerboard rigged identically as yours and I have had the board replaced when my cable parted after ~ 16 years. Thus I am more familiar with my cb than I’d like!! 1. If the sound is ‘new’ and it does this with the board up, something has changed so that the board can swing a little athwartship—puzzling to be sure—since there is likely little room for this given a pretty tight fit between the cb trunk walls and the board sides. Plus, the board pivots on a pin about 4 inches in diameter so again hard to see how it can ‘swing’ even a little? 2. If there is enough visibility in the river, I think the cable could be replaced in the water with a diver after it’s lowered fully (cable stop disabled so the board hangs further forward than in the normal down position). Finding a diver willing to do this is another matter! 3. Given the consequences of a failed cable, pivot pin, etc. I recommend that you get a diver to at least have a good look while you are on board to move the board up and down. If your cable fails in the board up position, the weighted board will fall, hitting the forward part of the trunk with such force that it likely will shear the board off the pin as the board continues forward and down to the bottom. Definitely not a fun day on the water—no need to ask how I know!! Good luck! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, August 14, 2023, 4:09 AM, Richard Bush via CnC-List wrote: Hi all; I have a 1985 C 37 with a centerboard; with the boat tied at the dock (we are at a fixed dock on a river) we notice a thunk sound that seems to be centerboard moving side-to-side when there was wave action; however, the centerboard cable remains tight and in its usual position (the centerboard is normally on the "up" position, with the cable connected to a rope line which is on a cabin top winch. The line was replaced with new line last winter and is in good condition). We were not able to see the bottom of the keel because the river water is too murky. Does anyone have any suggestions or information about replacing the centerboard cable; can this be done in the water with a diver? Any other ideas welcome, thank you. Richard 1985 C 37, CB; Ohio River, Mile 584. Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Centerboard cable diagnostics or replacement
Hey Richard, My 36XL (1995) has a centerboard rigged identically as yours and I have had the board replaced when my cable parted after ~ 16 years. Thus I am more familiar with my cb than I’d like!! 1. If the sound is ‘new’ and it does this with the board up, something has changed so that the board can swing a little athwartship—puzzling to be sure—since there is likely little room for this given a pretty tight fit between the cb trunk walls and the board sides. Plus, the board pivots on a pin about 4 inches in diameter so again hard to see how it can ‘swing’ even a little? 2. If there is enough visibility in the river, I think the cable could be replaced in the water with a diver after it’s lowered fully (cable stop disabled so the board hangs further forward than in the normal down position). Finding a diver willing to do this is another matter! 3. Given the consequences of a failed cable, pivot pin, etc. I recommend that you get a diver to at least have a good look while you are on board to move the board up and down. If your cable fails in the board up position, the weighted board will fall, hitting the forward part of the trunk with such force that it likely will shear the board off the pin as the board continues forward and down to the bottom. Definitely not a fun day on the water—no need to ask how I know!! Good luck! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, August 14, 2023, 4:09 AM, Richard Bush via CnC-List wrote: Hi all; I have a 1985 C 37 with a centerboard; with the boat tied at the dock (we are at a fixed dock on a river) we notice a thunk sound that seems to be centerboard moving side-to-side when there was wave action; however, the centerboard cable remains tight and in its usual position (the centerboard is normally on the "up" position, with the cable connected to a rope line which is on a cabin top winch. The line was replaced with new line last winter and is in good condition). We were not able to see the bottom of the keel because the river water is too murky. Does anyone have any suggestions or information about replacing the centerboard cable; can this be done in the water with a diver? Any other ideas welcome, thank you. Richard 1985 C 37, CB; Ohio River, Mile 584. Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Caught Out in 54 Knots, Under Full Sail
Cool. Sounds like you did everything you could in the time you had to do it and did it well. Plus you had a boat that could take it as long as you ‘helped her out’. I like to refer to such a boat as one that is smart enough to withstand some crew errors and tough enough not to come apart in rough conditions. I always considered my former Pearson 28 and my current C 36XL/kcb to be smart enough to survive her owner’s mistakes—of which there have been many! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, July 25, 2023, 12:23 AM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote: Hello Listers, Just for fun I’ll share an old sea story. Actually a new lake story. A week ago tonight I got caught out on my 30 MK I in 54 knots under full main and 155% Genoa, on Chatfield Reservoir. It was outflow from a downburst over downtown Denver probably 15 miles to the north; a storm cell I never even saw in part because of the dam on the reservoir. Colorado Sail and Yacht Club was holding a practice race. About an hour before the start, some strong gusts capsized the whole Flying Scot fleet. Crew in the water were rescued by other boats including Park Rangers, and the Flying Scots had to be towed back to the launch ramp half-submerged, to be pumped out. Then we started a keelboat race at about 7:05. The first leg was downwind in about 10 knots from the west. After rounding the leeward mark the wind started building and veering ultimately 90 degrees. I saw it coming, but didn’t have time to shorten sail, and I had no way of knowing it would build to 54 knots. When the gusts started to hit from the port side, I had water over the starboard cockpit coaming three separate times, and saw 50+ knots on my MFD when I could chance a look at it. At some point the wind veered enough that we had to tack to stay on course for the next mark, and then I was heeling 45-50 degrees to port. This all happened in a matter of two or three minutes. We had little choice but to luff completely, and furl the genoa. Some five minutes later the gusts started dying down and we were able to sheet the main back in. In the meantime I’d run the blowers in cast we had to start the A4, drive into the wind, and douse or reef the main. All on board kept their composure, and my boat suffered no real damage. But it was a pretty wild five or ten minutes. When it was all over, my max TWS page on my MFD said 53.7 knots. A guy on board captured part of it on video, including the mist over the water that only appears when it’s blowing that hard. And I’m grateful once again for the stiffness of the 30 MK I. I’ve sailed her in wind that strong a couple times before, but the difference was I knew in advance the wind was blowing, and was under double-reefed main only. We’ve had some pretty active weather in Denver this spring & summer. Cheers, Randy Stafford SV Grenadine C 30 MK I #79 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Fuel lift pump 30-1, clean or replace with electric?
My electric is wired to the ignition switch and I can hear it ‘purr’ before I switch the key to start—a nice simple confirmation that it is working every time I need it. My diesel mechanic just bypassed the mechanical lift pump—left it in place but not within the fuel flow lines. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, July 14, 2023, 2:54 PM, Nate Flesness via CnC-List wrote: My 2QM15 is not getting fuel, It gets to the lift pump input but no further. I just had the fuel polished after some crud problems, so likely either there's crud blocking the diaphragm hole, or the new additives made the 42 yr old rubber diaphargm "retire". Some years sgo there was discussion about replacing these with a car-parts electric fuel pump. I'd like to do that, but would love advice re wiring it and blocking off the old lift pimp outlet. Nate Flesness Sarah Jean1980 30-1Saint Croix Rivr, WI Blue Raven1994 Tartan 31Siskiwit Bay Marina, Lake Superior Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Water in mast step
My 1995 C 36 XL/kcb had a hole as well--I found it as I was cleaning out the mast step to drill a hole! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom On Sunday, July 2, 2023, 02:27:26 PM EDT, Matt Wolford via CnC-List wrote: My 1978 C 34 had a small hole drilled in it, presumably for that purpose. Never had a problem. From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2023 1:30 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Dean McNeill Subject: Stus-List Water in mast step I have a 1980 C 34. Keel stepped mast step gets water (from mast) and I’m wondering if it’s okay / advisable to drill a small hole in the metal step so the the water will drain into the bilge? Dean BarraWind C, Halifax NS _ | | >From Dean’s mobile 902 489 8556 | | Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness
I agree with you regarding purging air, warming up not so much. If your purging air theory is correct, there must be a small air/vacumn leak somewhere in your system between the tank and injectors that lets air in the system while the boat in sitting in the water between your uses of it. When finally running, and the accumulated air has been passed thru the engine back to the tank, etc. the leak is so small as to not be a problem. As it sits and the system accumulates air, it has too much air/not enough fuel to run until the accumulated air has been ‘purged’ as you suggest. As a test of this, you might bleed the system before you start the engine. If you see air bubbles then, it’s likely that is the problem. If no bubbles, back to the drawing board.! Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, June 30, 2023, 1:18 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: As I have thought about this and tried to come up with a cause, another data point occurred to me about the sequence of events. The stall has happened on 3 occasions on three different days in the last few weeks and not on 5-6 other occasions under similar conditions. In each of the cases where the engine stalled, it always happened within the first minute after starting the engine. In each case, the engine started and then stalled several times ( run for about 10 seconds then stall, repeat 2-3 times) and then after waiting a few minutes, it started and ran fine for extended periods. Those symptoms seem like limited fuel getting to the engine causing the stall, but I don’t see how they can be fuel filter related. But I realize that I always left the key switch on and thus the fuel pump running between start attempts. Any way they could be fuel pump related in the sense of it running for a while (warming up or purging air) while waiting to restart? Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT On Jun 28, 2023, at 8:53 PM, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List wrote: David, This may be a long shot, but on a Universal M3-20B that I installed on a club launch, and I think all Universals, the fuel pump gets its power under normal running conditions via an oil pressure switch. When starting the engine, the glow plug switch energizes the electric fuel pump in addition to the glow plugs (you can hear it clicking when you press the glow plug switch), but once the oil pressure rises it closes the oil pressure switch and keeps the fuel pump running when you let up on the glow plug switch. Incidentally the reason you hear the pump running after you shut the engine off is that it takes a few seconds for the oil pressure to drop to the point where the switch opens. I ran in to a problem with that engine when sludge got in to the connection to the oil pressure switch and kept it from closing properly, and thus the fuel pump intermittently stopped running and stalled the engine. Until I found the real problem I put a relay powered by the engine on/off key switch that powered the fuel pump directly, but when I flushed the oil switch a few times it cured the problem. Not sure how relevant this may be to your issues, but may be of interest. Neil Gallagher Weatherly, 35-1 Glen Cove, NY On 6/27/2023 12:45 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: So I am back to my engine problem hoping someone can help clarify things. I have had the engine quit several more times, but with no consistency as to when or why it happens. We were on a cruise recently and used it often and for long periods going in and out of harbors. Mostly it worked fine but had it stall several times: start and run for a few minutes, then stall, restart then stall, restart then stall, then run fine for 20 min or more. This happened in two separate situations a few days apart but no stall several other times. In all cases, it has eventually restarted and ran for extended periods. These intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose in my experience. This seems most likely to be a fuel related issue so now I am trying to fully understand the fuel system. I installed a Racor 500 unit last summer with a T-handle vacuum gauge on top. Fuel goes from the tank, through the shutoff lever to the Racor, then to the fuel pump, then to the secondary and on to the engine. If I understand this correctly, the gauge on the Racor unit will measure restriction in the fuel flow upstream of the gauge, ie the primary (30 µm in my case). I know the gauge works because if you partially shut off the fuel lever, you see the gauge gradually increase in vacuum reading. But it seems that it will not tell you if the secondary is plugged. 1. I don’t see how the secondary (10 µm in my case) could be plugged if the primary is fine but I guess not impossible. My temptation is to replace the secondary since the primary is not showing any sign of being plugged (from the gauge), but I don’t see how this could lead to an infrequent
Stus-List Re: Accurate Fuel Tank Measurements
Got it. Calibrating the gauge can be done albeit crudely by starting with an empty tank and adding x-gallons y-times until the tank is full WHILE simultaneously noting/marking the fuel gauge ‘face’ as you go. Pretty crude and slow and with the small size of most fuel gauges not very precise. The bigger the fuel gauge face (diameter) the better! My gauge is say 2 inches in diameter and uses say the upper part of it with say 180 degree arc (likely less than 180 but let’s keep it simple). If the tank was level and cubic, easy peasy since 1/4 tank would be at 1/4 of 180 or about 45 degrees, etc with 1/2 showing 90 degrees, etc. (This is the default ‘calibration’ of most resistance based senders.) If odd shaped, not so much! Further before you begin you must fill the tank or otherwise know it’s capacity. Then you fill tank to 1/4 of capacity and mark gauge, 1/2 capacity and mark gauge, etc. By the time you finish this, you will have a crudely calibrated gauge—I say crudely since the width of your marks on the gauge face correspond to probably +/- a gallon or more as the gauge gets smaller and/or your marks get bigger. In the end, your calibration approximates the actual fuel volume in the tank as long as you read your gauge marks consistently. After I went thru this on my boat, it was so crude that I don’t use it—I just ALWAYS carry an extra 2 gal diesel supply in my lazarette. This is enough to get me to any marina in my area of sailing on the NC sounds if I run out of fuel. I also keep a record of my fuel fills by date and amount so that I have a good idea that my tank is almost always at least 1/2 full. Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Wednesday, June 28, 2023, 2:54 PM, Peter W. wrote: Charlie, hi,Thanks for your comments. My tank is also a very odd shape. My use of “measurement “ is probably a bit misleading. “Calibrate” would be better. Simply stated, I want to avoid overfilling, and spilling diesel fuel. I have never been able to get an accurate reading from my gauge, and I have done a poor job of estimating how much fuel to add, when needed.I have a yanmar 2gm20, and, at a quart of fuel per cylinder hourly, my consumption estimate is apparently too conservative. Just haven’t been able to calibrate better. Pete WSiren SongC, Va Sent from my iPad On Jun 27, 2023, at 10:44 PM, cenel...@aol.com wrote: Unless your tank is a rectangular cube, any measurements based on the height of fuel in it will be approximate at best. And even then, if it is not ‘level’ on any axis, it won’t be accurate. For instance, my tank’s bottom is shaped to follow the hull shape for a secure fit. Of course, when down to 1/4 ‘full’ by a level sensor, it has much less than 1/4 tank by volume.(The same is true for automobile fuel tanks and this is why most tank gauges fall much faster from 1/2 full to empty than from full to 1/2 empty.) There are gauge calibrators available the correct for this. AFAIK, they are calibrated by adding fuel in known increments to an empty tank so that the fuel gauge reflects the correct amount of fuel, not the height of the fuel. (The calibrator is inserted in the fuel sensor wiring to change the level sensor resistance to match the fuel volume instead of the fuel level). This is likely more accuracy than typically necessary for recreational boating—adding fuel when a level gauge reaches ~ 1/4 tank will prevent the tank from ever going empty no matter what the gauge reads. II am not a pilot but suspect that given the consequences of running out of fuel at 10,000 feet, a different technology is used for airplane fuel tanks—if not, I am sure such tanks are calibrated more accurately than most boat fuel tanks! Charlie Nelson Water PhantomC 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, June 27, 2023, 9:34 PM, Peter W. via CnC-List wrote: Possibly. I’ll investigate. Thanks. Sent from my iPad > On Jun 27, 2023, at 8:14 PM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List > wrote: > > Can you add a sight guage? Tap holes at bottom and top of tank. Add an > elbow fitting with clear fuel line material. > > -Original Message- > From: Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 12:52 PM > To: Peter W. via CnC-List > Cc: Tom Buscaglia > Subject: Stus-List Re: Accurate Fuel Tank Measurements > > I use my Hobbes meter. I take a picture at each fill-up and try to keep the > tank at least 1/2 full. I have a pretty accurate picture of my per hour > consumption. Seems close enough for me. > >> On 6/27/2023 11:08 AM, Peter W. via CnC-List wrote: >> I like to keep my fuel tank as full as possible as the best way to keep out >> water. >> >> Can anyone share their procedure to determine (with reasonable accuracy) how >> much fuel their tank holds, at any given time? >> While I have a fuel gauge, it isn't very accurate as it under-estimates how >> much fuel is in tank (by several gallons). >> I'm thinking of trying
Stus-List Re: Accurate Fuel Tank Measurements
Unless your tank is a rectangular cube, any measurements based on the height of fuel in it will be approximate at best. And even then, if it is not ‘level’ on any axis, it won’t be accurate. For instance, my tank’s bottom is shaped to follow the hull shape for a secure fit. Of course, when down to 1/4 ‘full’ by a level sensor, it has much less than 1/4 tank by volume.(The same is true for automobile fuel tanks and this is why most tank gauges fall much faster from 1/2 full to empty than from full to 1/2 empty.) There are gauge calibrators available the correct for this. AFAIK, they are calibrated by adding fuel in known increments to an empty tank so that the fuel gauge reflects the correct amount of fuel, not the height of the fuel. (The calibrator is inserted in the fuel sensor wiring to change the level sensor resistance to match the fuel volume instead of the fuel level). This is likely more accuracy than typically necessary for recreational boating—adding fuel when a level gauge reaches ~ 1/4 tank will prevent the tank from ever going empty no matter what the gauge reads. II am not a pilot but suspect that given the consequences of running out of fuel at 10,000 feet, a different technology is used for airplane fuel tanks—if not, I am sure such tanks are calibrated more accurately than most boat fuel tanks! Charlie Nelson Water PhantomC 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, June 27, 2023, 9:34 PM, Peter W. via CnC-List wrote: Possibly. I’ll investigate. Thanks. Sent from my iPad > On Jun 27, 2023, at 8:14 PM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List > wrote: > > Can you add a sight guage? Tap holes at bottom and top of tank. Add an > elbow fitting with clear fuel line material. > > -Original Message- > From: Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 12:52 PM > To: Peter W. via CnC-List > Cc: Tom Buscaglia > Subject: Stus-List Re: Accurate Fuel Tank Measurements > > I use my Hobbes meter. I take a picture at each fill-up and try to keep the > tank at least 1/2 full. I have a pretty accurate picture of my per hour > consumption. Seems close enough for me. > >> On 6/27/2023 11:08 AM, Peter W. via CnC-List wrote: >> I like to keep my fuel tank as full as possible as the best way to keep out >> water. >> >> Can anyone share their procedure to determine (with reasonable accuracy) how >> much fuel their tank holds, at any given time? >> While I have a fuel gauge, it isn't very accurate as it under-estimates how >> much fuel is in tank (by several gallons). >> I'm thinking of trying to use a wood or plastic dowel, but that would >> require a "straight shot" to the tank bottom (I.e., no bends or >> obstructions). >> Any thoughts? >> >> Pete W. >> Siren Song >> C 30-2 >> Irvington, Va >> >> Sent from my iPad >> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and >> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: >> https://www.p/ >> aypal.me%2Fstumurray=05%7C01%7C%7C611b354ad52e4baad33e08db77480dd >> 3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638234923578751716%7CUn >> known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW >> wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=K%2F2MOZ%2FYuWsk9GmmWQRi7lbCZYe >> QLMP9jj1XIfyy5hA%3D=0 >> Thanks for your help. >> Stu > > -- > (\ > Tom Buscaglia > SV Alera > C 37+/40 > Vashon Island WA > (305) 409-3660 > http://www.sv-alera.com/ > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help > me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help > me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness
Apparently you have an electric fuel pump. Some of these, at least the small one I use, have in-line filters that are built into the pump and not removable—they are integral to the pump. The only way to replace the filter is to replace the pump or have 2 pump/filters in parallel so they can be switched—my solution. In my case, my diesel guy completely bypassed the Beta 28 mechanical lift pump since it’s lift was thought to be marginal—although this was never ‘proven’ to be the cause of my stalling problem. The problem has not returned in any case. Worth checking at least. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, June 27, 2023, 12:46 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: So I am back to my engine problem hoping someone can help clarify things. I have had the engine quit several more times, but with no consistency as to when or why it happens. We were on a cruise recently and used it often and for long periods going in and out of harbors. Mostly it worked fine but had it stall several times: start and run for a few minutes, then stall, restart then stall, restart then stall, then run fine for 20 min or more. This happened in two separate situations a few days apart but no stall several other times. In all cases, it has eventually restarted and ran for extended periods. These intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose in my experience. This seems most likely to be a fuel related issue so now I am trying to fully understand the fuel system. I installed a Racor 500 unit last summer with a T-handle vacuum gauge on top. Fuel goes from the tank, through the shutoff lever to the Racor, then to the fuel pump, then to the secondary and on to the engine. If I understand this correctly, the gauge on the Racor unit will measure restriction in the fuel flow upstream of the gauge, ie the primary (30 µm in my case). I know the gauge works because if you partially shut off the fuel lever, you see the gauge gradually increase in vacuum reading. But it seems that it will not tell you if the secondary is plugged. 1. I don’t see how the secondary (10 µm in my case) could be plugged if the primary is fine but I guess not impossible. My temptation is to replace the secondary since the primary is not showing any sign of being plugged (from the gauge), but I don’t see how this could lead to an infrequent intermittent stall.2. Fuel pump problem (loose wire etc.)? You can hear the fuel pump running when the engine is off and I have never heard it stop or pause. Can fuel pumps fail like this? Can that lead to an intermittent stall?3. Air getting into fuel line- seems possible, but I don’t see how that can be the cause if the engine runs for an hour continuously once restarted. Any ideas welcome! Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness
I also suffer from engine anxiety after dealing with unreliable diesel operation over about 2 years, during which time it would quit, usually immediately restart, run for several minutes or several hours and then quit, repeat, etc. The most recent fix (electric fuel pump x2, switchable) with the lift pump bypassed entirely has kept it running regularly for 2+ years. As a result of my post diesel failure anxiety (PDFA!), I can’t bring myself to call this fix the ‘last fix’. I consider it only a long pause before the next failure of some system on board. On the plus side, I know my way around my diesel almost as well as my mechanic and have proven to my crew that I am capable of ALL routine engine maintenance while underway or drifting depending on the breeze! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36/XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, June 12, 2023, 1:47 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: Thanks for all the thoughts and stories. The engine has run fine now for many hours since that incident, so I am going to ignore it for now. You can’t fix a problem that happens once and doesn’t repeat. To answer some questions: M4-30 diesel, new Racor unit and filters, some new fuel lines. I have a pressure gauge on top of the Racor, so I know if filters are clogged and they are not. Like Chuck, I have an electric fuel pump which eliminates a bunch of possible causes. If the problem recurs, I will deal with it, but motoring most of the way to Block Island and back with no trouble easies my mind. However, I have to say, I will never be fully comfortable or trusting of engines in general. Whenever I have a long motoring to do, I am never happy or confident in my engine. I guess that’s why I have a sailboat and sail it most of the time. Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT On Jun 11, 2023, at 12:24 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote: Let's just be thankful we're not flying airplanes! Bill Coleman On Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 09:42 Korbey Hunt via CnC-List wrote: I have a 1980 34 C located in Ketchikan, AK. I only use it in the summer. It has a new Yanmar 30 hp engine with 300 hrs. Last year when returning from a long cruise at good speed and running well for many hours the engine suddenly slowed and died. We were in a channel and began drifting towards the beach. After a few minutes I restarted the motor and it ran fine. I suspect a fuel problem but never found the cause. I changed the engine filter but it did not look dirty. Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: Martin DeYoung via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2023 10:24:48 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Martin DeYoung Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness Transitory engine issues can create drama quickly. Back in 1992 we had just taken possession of a 1981 C 36 and departed Seattle's Lake Union heading out to our saltwater moorage at Shilshole Bay Marina. This trip takes us west through the Lake Washington Ship Canal, under the Fremont and Ballard Bridges (needed to open them), and through the Ballard locks. The Ship Canal is narrow enough that it is rare to sail through it. It was also calm that day. The engine ran just fine through the transit to and into the locks (approx. first hour of ownership). It is common to shut down the engine while locking through as it can take enough time to expose a few people to the exhaust fumes. So, the lock gates open, the C 36's Yanmar 3-cylinder diesel fires up and aidedby the outgoing current we departed the lock. Now it worth noting there is an opening single leafed Bascule train bridge with a clearance of +-48' at that moment's tide height a short distance west of the lock. Our 36's air draft was a little over 50'.Given how the gods watching over errant sailors enjoy a good laugh from time to time the engine chooses that moment to shut down. It shut down in that way that indicates a restart is unlikely. The train bridge is also down. The current coming out of the locks is relentlessly pushing us towards the closed bridge. I am suddenly very concerned for the top few feet of the mast. I immediately sounded the signal asking for an opening. I asked the boat's new co-owner to make ready to anchor. I hit the starter to see if the engine would restart. It sputtered and died again. I sounded for an opening again. Nothing promising was happening up on the bow in way of an anchor being deployed. I attempted another restart this time with the reduction gear in reverse to make use of any rotation of the prop. I get maybe 15 to 20 seconds of run time which slowed our progress slightly. The bridge operator made the horn signal indicating he was able to open the bridge, no trains were in route. I headed for the side of the bridge that opens first and hit the starter again hoping for another few seconds of reverse. Fortunately, the bridge opened just enough and our path close to the opening end of the bridge equaled just enough clearance the mast
Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness
If you have been keeping up with your filter changes (primary, secondary, Racor, etc.) and the boat is used regularly, my bet is on an air leak somewhere in the fuel system, perhaps generated by changing your filters. An overtightened Racor can deform the lid and allow air in and any change in the mechanical fuel pump may reduce what fuel it can deliver especially at high rpm. As others have suggested, it could be fuel crud as well. Either way I would follow the KISS principle and check the simplest possible solution first before proceeding to more complicated solutions—something I have a tendency to do! (e.g. if you hear the sounds of a stampede, assume they are horses and not hippos). It took my mechanic and myself several years to determine that my similar fuel delivery problem was likely caused by a mechanical lift pump barely able to deliver enough fuel at high rpm ( Beta engine replaced original Yanmar and the Beta pump was barely able to left the fuel to the engine compounded by air leaks, etc.) Ultimately after a few years of erratic operation he bypassed the mechanical pump and added a simple electric fuel pumps (x2) for redundancy and they were cheap!) and problem was solved—although we never confirmed with confidence what the original problem(s) were. Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, June 9, 2023, 1:36 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Loose wire or bad terminal? My Universal M4-30 has an electric fuel booster pump. A dirty ground connection caused a problem called; speed up and die, or lack of fuel. Ours always restarted however and then cut out above half throttle. The wire terminal was green. Cleaned it with emery cloth and she ran fine for the next 12 hours. Once home, I changed the pump and hoses and remounted the water separater to it was easier to work on. Chuck S On 06/09/2023 12:43 PM EDT Neil Andersen via CnC-List wrote: My similar issue was due to a fuel pump issue. Neil Andersen, W3NEA Formerly 1982 C 32, FoxFire Rock Hall, MD 21661 484-354-8800 From: Dreuge via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 9, 2023 11:40:17 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Dreuge Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness I once had a similar engine issue. It would run fine one day (or half) and constant stall upon or shortly after restarts. It turned out that my Racor was not full tightened. Easy fix once found. - Paul E. 1981 C Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Fort Walton Beach, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ On Jun 9, 2023, at 11:27 AM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote: On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 7:22 AM David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I am out for the first time this season. Engine started right up. Motored out of harbor for two hours. Turned engine off for a while waiting for wind. Started back up. Ran for 15-30 sec and died. Started up and ran for a bit longer then died. Pulled bed to get access and fuel pressure and level in racor look fine. Started up and ran fine for 40 min. WTF? Dave Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Sail costs
I have always had a sailmaker/salesperson measure my boat for any sail—whether national (Hood, North) or local. Given the sail costs for my 36 XL and the limited number of hulls made, I didn’t trust myself to make the measurements or to rely on some sail database. For my latest 3Di 155%, the North rep spent a couple of hours measuring, including the slight curvature of my Genoa tracks as they move aft, following the curve of the cabin.Not a DIY project for me. Since the sail has its curvatures built in from the 3d mold, its shape really cannot be adjusted. When delivered and hoisted , it fit perfectly, including the spreader and stanchion patches and most importantly, to my amateur eyes, it has a perfect shape. My hope is that between the medium weight (true winds 15-20) and the sail material itself it will outlast my ability to race with it—or at least longer than it’s 3DL predecessor! Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, March 18, 2023, 11:37 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote: Anywhere from $850 to $2500 for a cruising (inshore) Dacron furling 135% genoa for my Catalina 270 (summer 2022). You have to shop around (get quotes) and insist on comparing oranges to oranges. I had very good experience with a small sail loft round Buffalo and with an offshore company; both in the lower range of prices. Some larger companies offered to send a rep to the boat, but this added a substantial premium and did not seem to offer too much benefit. Marek 1994 C270 ”Legato” Ottawa, ON From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2023 9:55 AM To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER Subject: Stus-List Sail costs Sail costs: A new light air genoa was quoted at $5200 for my 36 footer, so I decided instead to have repairs made to my old sails. They repaired my #2 for $700. They will alter my #3 for a little more. They are removing horizontal battens and installing vertical battens, and adding UV, so it can be furled. I've chosen to use Chesapeake Sailmakers because they are service oriented, came out and measured my rig before I spent any money, and they took time to evaluate my sails and offer options. Wonder what others are paying for new sails and/or repairs. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Annapolis Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Sail costs
Similar to my recent (2020/2021) 155% 3Di from North. No luff cover-I use a sleeve—and IIRC it was ~$6600 all in. It was of medium weight for potential racing near the ocean and hopefully for better longevity! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, March 18, 2023, 2:46 PM, Ted Drossos via CnC-List wrote: I had a new 155% made by Quantum for my C 110 in 2020 . It was a carbon fiber tri-radial with Liteskin. $6300 plus tax and delivery. Ted DrossosC 110Lady in RedLong Island, NY -Original Message- From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER Sent: Sat, Mar 18, 2023 9:54 am Subject: Stus-List Sail costs Sail costs: A new light air genoa was quoted at $5200 for my 36 footer, so I decided instead to have repairs made to my old sails. They repaired my #2 for $700. They will alter my #3 for a little more. They are removing horizontal battens and installing vertical battens, and adding UV, so it can be furled. I've chosen to use Chesapeake Sailmakers because they are service oriented, came out and measured my rig before I spent any money, and they took time to evaluate my sails and offer options. Wonder what others are paying for new sails and/or repairs. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Annapolis Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: winch mounting project
Last things first, my rule of thumb (origin lost to memory) is to have enough threads to match the diameter of the bolt: thus a 1/4 x 20 bolt should have a minimum of 5 threads (20/4 = 5). Threads beyond that are overkill. Next I would consider using a oscillating tool to cut away the inner liner in the shower so that you could reach all the bolts without drilling individual holes to match. You can easily cover the opening you create with a piece of teak or something that looks like it. Modern oscillating tools can easily cut through the liner. Lastly, I would use a a starboard type plate vs. aluminium and forget about tapping an aluminium plate. Just use thru bolts and, if necessary, make the starboard thick enough so that the nuts used on the thru bolts can sit in recessed holes in the starboard. FWIW Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, March 11, 2023, 12:50 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I would love some feedback on a project since my initial plan went awry and hope others can help me from making any more mistakes. I keep making small tweaks to make life easier for short-handed sailing. Since I am usually alone, raising the main is a process. I raise it most of the way by hand at the mast and have a clam cleat mounted there to hold it in place. Then I feed the halyard through the blocks and then though the jammer on the coachroof and clamp it. Then I use the winch to fully hoist and make adjustments. The problem is that the only winch on the starboard side is a non-self tailing Barient 18. Using that without someone to tail can be done, but is not easy and must be one handed. So I had to bright idea this winter to replace the winch with a self-tailing version to make adjustments easier once the sail is raised. It seemed a relatively straightforward project at the time. I have periodically had those, and I always assume the next one will be. I found a used Harken winch in good condition at a reasonable price on Ebay and bought it and took it to the boat. I presumed I would have to redrill some holes to mount it, but did not realize how limited the space actually was. The new winch is not much larger, but enough to be a problem. Because the winch is at the back of the coachroof, and behind the shower hatch, the space is very tight and I would not be able to fit all the screws of the new base, not to mention I would have to drill a new set of access points in the shower ceiling panel. So two options:1. Try to find a comparably sized Barient 21 or 22 ST that has a smaller base (none have the same hole pattern). I think one would fit, but have not found any used ones yet so those appear hard to find.2. Create an adapter plate. My thought was to buy a round aluminum(?) stock plate the size of the new winch base. Drill a set of countersunk holes matching the existing pattern and tap a set of holes for the new winch. The plate would be held by the old through bolts. The new by the tapped holes. This would raise the winch somewhat depending on the thickness of the plate. How thick to make it so the threads are sufficiently strong is a worry. I don’t think the raised angle would be a problem, since genoa winches are much higher than the lead block and work fine. My temptation is to go with option 2. Thoughts? Thanks as always- Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: UV Strip
Given the light weight of ‘Sticky back’( presumed to be plastic type film that serves as a sail cover when the head sail is furled), I doubt that it is the problem with your leech. (Before I went with a furling sock, I had new carbon sails that had something similar on them for UV protection— very thin clear plastic stuck to the sail). I suspect that your frizbee type leech curl is a result of a tired sail that has lost its shape or it was cut improperly. I once had a Dacron 155% reinforced with technora fibers that had a similar leech (which ‘bowed’ to weather!) that could only be removed be recutting it to about 140%. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, March 2, 2023, 6:43 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote: My current Dacron Jib has Insignia sticky-back on the leech, which I am not happy with. I wonder if anyone else following this has Sticky-Back as a UV, and if they have noticed they have a frisbee leech? I would have expected the leech to be needing some leech line adjustment by now, but I have it all the way off and still can't get the cup out of the leech. I am afraid if I take it off I will be stuck with sticky crap that I cannot remove. Bill ColemanEntrada, Erie PA On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 10:57 AM Jeff Nelson via CnC-List wrote: Also has the benefit that it doesn't add weight to the leach of the sail, which can be important in light wind. As well, there is less of a chance your furled sail will unwind in a wind...because it is encased in the sockso the sock has to fail as well. The drawback of course is you have to put the sock on and off...but having used both, my boat with leach UV protection and J-105 with sock. The extra 5 minutes doesn't kill me. If you sailed alone a lot, might be more of a nuisance but I try to avoid that as I am more of a social person so I prefer to find anybody to go sailing with. My future sails will be sock based. Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 - 549 Armdale Y.C. On 2023-03-02 11:44, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: Bacon’s told me their price for the material had recently doubled, so socks probably cost more too. On the other hand a sock works for ALL sails, not just one, and you can get it repaired without dragging the whole sail into the loft. Joe Coquina From: Richard Servance via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 9:58 AM To: Stus-List Cc: Richard Servance Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: UV Strip I just had North replace the UV cover on my 135%. It was a boat buck ($1k). Hadn't heard of the sock method; so not sure if it's still an option from them. Sail safe, Richard Servance S/V Blue Heaven (C 34+) 757-995-3416 @svblueheaven Seattle, WA Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Best Telltale Treatment
Great idea Alan, esp. attaching them ‘backwards’! I will have to use some old cassette tapes instead. What do you use to attach/stick them to the sail? Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, February 28, 2023, 12:32 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote: I Found the best telltales are made from reel to reel recording tape. Attach the tape as though it were streaming forward. Then when you are sailing the tape will stream aft, and it won't lie flat against the sail, preventing it from sticking. Alan On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 8:59 AM Matt Janssen via CnC-List wrote: Randy, On most race boats i've been on, the standby is coating the telltale in McLube or a similar dry silicone lubricant. However, this does not work for my laminated No 1. The edge of the panels/stitching always seemed to catch the yarn. This causes pulls in the yarn further exacerbating the problem. This was especially true near the telltale windows. I only had success after swapping the yarn tell tales for a lightweight nylon material. The ones from Robship worked well for me. https://www.amazon.com/Robship-Telltale-Dinghy-Small-Multi/dp/B09SZM291Y/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Robship=1677599220=8-1 For the tells I did not swap, I trimmed their length to keep the tell from snagging on the stitching. I only needed to trim 1" to 1.5". If your issue is mostly moisture or static, McLube or similar may work. If you have a laminate or dark colored sail, whatever you do, resist the urge to coat the sail itself. Frustrated at a regatta last year i did just this... and had to live with unsightly white clouds on the sail. Adding insult to injury, the tells were stuck again by the windward mark. (see lower window) mattEduamC 27 MkV On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 10:17 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote: Listers- What, in your experience, has been the best treatment to apply to telltales to keep them from sticking from sails? I’m talking mostly about yarn telltales along a headsail’s luff, but also ripstop nylon telltales on a mainsail’s leech? I’ve noticed that sometimes yarn telltales will stick due to static or moisture. I’d like to find the right magic potion or pixie dust to apply to give them the greatest ability possible to fly without sticking. Then, making them fly properly is of course up to the crew. Cheers, Randy Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!oPgNgknZgpGfSRlgXp8at_BTMwhMpjsy4BGJOg_DzKpcmL63TWFkbq7xNEDLlS4FZsI_W1aY8gRiNRwb4G89XjY$ Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Racing at night
I don’t do much night racing but when I did, I found stanchion flashlight mounts very useful. Aim the pair at your favorite tell tales (or at all of the tell tales if you have multiple pairs of mounts and flashlights) with a red filter on them and you’re good to go. Don’t remember where I got them any longer. With more recent led flashlights, the batteries would easily last the night—the older non led flashlights usually only lasted until dawn—barely! FWIW Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Sunday, February 26, 2023, 12:01 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I just read an interesting article in Practical Sailor on red vs. white lights and night vision. It reminded me to ask a question of those more experienced about night racing. I have only done this a few times and found upwind steering at night to be a real challenge. I normally steer by the genoa telltales. In light, shifting winds which we inevitably encounter at the darkest hours, it is especially important to steer well to keep the boat moving, but it is hard. We used a hand held spotlight to periodically check the telltales, but that destroys night vision. Are there better solutions? Thanks- Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: TowBoatUS is it worth it?
Note that on my recent renewal with Boat/US there were mileage limits on the tow depending on the level of insurance. The old unlimited may still be available but don’t assume that your coverage includes it——“caveat emptor” or something like that!! OTOH, before I returned to Boat/US, my towing coverage had a $1000 deductible. The one time I used it for a tow of about 1/8 mile (board problem had it down in a channel into marina),guess what the tow cost—exactly $1000! Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, January 14, 2023, 3:27 PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List wrote: Yep...it is cheap even if you only use it once every 10 years. Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660 On Jan 14, 2023, at 12:17 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List wrote: I would never own a boat without it. Danny On Jan 14, 2023 1:56 PM, Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote: Chuck, unless you're going far and need a tow, it sounds like you've got your situations covered. I've used them once, when I couldn't start the engine after a race. Of course, I was all of 1.5 miles off shore :( I'm now doing longer races, including Port Huron to Mackinac. A tow from anywhere back to my home port is well worth the cost of the insurance. Bob Mystic Detroit On 01/14/2023 1:50 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Hi Guys, Got a question for the shallow water sailors like those in Chesapeake Bay. I'm thinking whether to buy TowBoatUS for peace of mind this coming season. I've owned my boat for twenty years and though I do run aground a few times each year, I always get off faily easily by backing out or spinning the keel free. My batteries are older and I might need a jump start after anchoring out. I keep a jumpstarter aboard for that situation and can easily check the charge. Are there any benefits I am missing that the membership provides? TowBoatUS requires thirty days before benefits are effective, so February looks a good time to join if I do. Thanks, Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R, Annapolis Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Replacing Original Boom
Love my in-boom purchase! My 1995 36 XL has a ‘magic’ 2, 3 or 4 purchase within the boom for the out haul.(can’t recall exactly). Whatever it is, it can be used in any breeze in which we do not need to reef our main (our go-to reefing). Once we need to reef the main, there is no need for this purchase since once reefed, the outhaul cannot be usedand the leech is effectively ‘flattened’ by the aft forces on the reef crinkle. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, January 5, 2023, 12:44 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote: In addition to what I said about the gooseneck matching the boom, my boom came with a 3:1 or 4:1 in-boom purchase for the outhaul. A cabin top winch is used for reefing and for the outhaul (when needed in heavier air). Alan Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OR On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 9:14 AM Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: Randy, While I've never experienced a Selden boom on any C, I've been racing on a Beneteau First 40 (Farr Yacht Design) for the past few years which has a Selden spar set up. I do "pit" on race nights. The in-boom outhaul, reef lines, and vang controls work seamlessly and can be adjusted in most reasonable wind conditions. With regards to the outhaul, there's a winch just aft of the rope clutches and I don't think I could pull on the outhaul by hand in anything more than 10kts of breeze (it’s a really big main on the Beneteau). It really wants to be on the winch. Like everything else, it’s a matter of getting the proper sized lines to work with the sheave sizes in the boom assembly along with periodic maintenance of the lines and sheaves involved. Also, gooseneck fittings are not universal so if you have bits of the gooseneck welded to the mast, make sure that the new one is compatible with mast fitting. Good luck with the upgrade! Chuck Gilchrest Half Magic 1983 Landfall 35 Padanaram, MA -Original Message- From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 10:57 AM To: Stus-List Cc: Randy Stafford Subject: Stus-List Replacing Original Boom Happy New Year Listers. I’m contemplating replacing the original boom on my 30 MK I with a new Selden BS120-03B. This is an outgrowth of my offseason project to replace sheaves & halyards, add deck organizers and rope clutches to lead lines aft, etc. What attracts me to a new modern boom is being able to run the outhaul and reef lines through sheaves at its aft end, through the boom, through sheaves at its forward end, down to turning blocks on the mast at the collar, then aft via deck organizers to rope clutches. The Selden booms also have a pretty slick internal single-line reefing system for two reef points. I’ve requested a few quotes and so far the price is less than I feared - reasonable enough to actually do it. Have any of y’all done this before, and have any experience to report? Cheers, Randy Stafford SV Grenadine C 30 MK I #79 Ken Caryl, CO Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!pqu6XoHfSPPlRFkDEsQGwBXt2GlKgdC7fbIC2g6v50X0RI6zq-9SqPqiRX8wjoX67qpkN6k8lVEFjEbEol7UBhw$ Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!pqu6XoHfSPPlRFkDEsQGwBXt2GlKgdC7fbIC2g6v50X0RI6zq-9SqPqiRX8wjoX67qpkN6k8lVEFjEbEol7UBhw$ Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Boatyards in SE
Also consider yards in coastal or the sounds of NC. Plenty of DIY yards in the Pamlico Sound, Neuse River, Albemarle Sound, Southport, NC. Those away from the Atlantic coast are mostly very reasonable in cost with decent amenities and most allow DIY work although boats with drafts of ~ 5+ ft may have difficulties in or getting to some facilities. Yard fees are much higher near the coast but if you want to mostly work on the boat, you can save big away from the coast—plus within a days sail/motor you can be on the ocean. The winds up in the rivers/sounds are on the lighter side but for all practical purposes there are no tides, currents, fog and the bottom is soft but very black mud. FWIW Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater PhantomNew Bern, NC Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Winches in use for dip pole jibes.
Great info and from someone who knows about dip pole or other kite maneuvers! If the after guard, including the trimmers, are paying attention the appropriate sheets and guys are in their proper places, just displaced from each other fore and aft as my tactician prefers. I am now convinced that the sheets and guys will be in their proper places after the kite is hoisted and doused as described for port rounding—thus there is not likely that keeping the guys forward and sheets aft will be significantly slower than having them paired athwartship. Thanks for your reply—it has converted me!! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, December 1, 2022, 3:34 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote: I have been doing dip pole gybes for forty + years. My primary winches are forward on the coaming and secondaries are aft (like yours). The primaries are always used for the guys and the genoa sheets and the secondaries are always used for the spinnaker sheets. Since you are rounding the windward mark on starboard tack, the genoa sheet is on the port primary, and the starboard primary is free to use for the spinnaker guy. When you round the leeward mark on starboard tack, the port primary is free to use for the genoa sheet. As soon as you round at either the windward or leeward mark, the port primary is free if you want to tack or gybe. If you use a spinnaker staysail, the primary is used for the staysail sheet, after the genoa is dropped or furled. Try this the next time you're out and you'll see how simple it is. Alan Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OR On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 11:42 AM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote: My tactician and I have a friendly disagreement on which winches to use when doing dip pole jibes with lazy sheets and 'guys' on my masthead rig C 36 XL/kcb: On Water Phantom, I have moved the initial primary winches (Lewmar ST 50s) forward on the cockpit coaming and added another secondary winch pair (Lewmar ST 44s) at the aft end of the cockpit coaming. Thus my secondaries are hardly secondary in strength and power ratios, etc. All our races have port roundings and most are W-L. Thus we are on starboard tack at either the windward or leeward mark. I am no expert on dip-pole jibes but as I thought thru the sequence of events at the turning mark on starboard tack, it seemed intuitive to me to rig the kite with a starboard pole always (we never do jib sets!), using the aft secondary winches for both the sheet and the guy on the kite. This leaves the forward primary winches committed to the headsail as we make the turn at the mark. After the turn, the primary winches can be cleared of the headsail sheets and the other set of kite lines (sheet and guy) can be rigged on these primary winches. When it comes time to jibe, the aft secondary kite lines become lazy and the trimmers use the primary winches--note the primary and secondary winches are only about 2 feet apart. For the next jibe, the trimmers move to the aft secondary winches and so on... At the leeward mark, always on starboard for port roundings, the kite is back to being controlled by the aft secondaries (as at the windward mark) and the forward primaries can be loaded with the headsail sheets in anticipation of the beat to windward just as they were positioned at the windward mark. I like this symmetry (but then I am mostly a left-hander!) and think it involves less line switching, less time and might be faster than using a forward set of winches for both guys, etc. OTOH, my tactician races mainly in a one design Beneteau 41S fleet in Chicago where the primary forward winches have both guys on them, the aft secondary winches are used for both sheets always. (I think this is because the secondaries might be pretty small on the 41S and they and/or the crew may not be able to handle the guys on the secondary aft winches). Since I have no problem with using Lewmar 44s as primary winches, I have the option to do the winches ala the Chicago way or the Water Phantom way. Before I commit to having the crew learn how to do these winch swaps as we go from jibe to jibe, I want to choose the best way to handle the winches and stick with it through the season. What do the list racers think of these alternatives? Thanks in advance, Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcbNew Bern, NC Don't forget to show your appreciation and help pay the bills. Make a contribution at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!vUPc2BB4BPbQ2KTBeNNg8NMnuKVmashBtlisYX9auO-GBORHm6GeHlV0qLlNN59vn4fVJla0BlJTwUGH0bqT1Hc$ Thanks for your help. Alan Bergen Don't forget to show your appreciation and help pay the bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Charlie Nelson Don't forget to show your appreciation and help pay the bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Re: Cost to replace UV cover
In my case, the sheets are led down to the tack as the sleeve is hoisted over the sail. Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, June 21, 2022, 8:24 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote: So, do you zip down to your sheets, and zip up to them, or do you take the sheets off altogether and just zip with one zipper? Bill ColemanEntrada Erie PA On Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 21:55 Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote: Do away with the sacrificial altogether! I bought a jib sock for my 35 in December 2017 for $580 from a small, local sailmaker. A few tears in it but still going strong! Bob Mann Detroit On 06/20/2022 9:45 PM Neil Andersen via CnC-List wrote: I had a “stick on” sacrificial cover attached to my 150 years ago. I was rounding Bloody Point on the Chesapeake in fairly strong winds when the cover got attached to the shrouds instead of the sail. Not a lot of fun as we could only adjust our heading so much, we’re running out of “runway”, and the sail was basically glued to the shroud. I will NEVER use a glue on item like that unless it is also sewn on as well. Neil Andersen, W3NEA Rock Hall, MD 21661 484-354-8800 From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 8:28:31 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Joel Aronson Subject: Stus-List Re: Cost to replace UV cover U V cover replacement is by the foot. What else did they recommend? New webbing? Restitching? On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 7:34 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote: Maybe it's time for a SailRite machine! On the other hand, isn't there some kind of a white sticky material you can buy and just put it on yourself? It sticks like the numbers or graphics. I'm pretty sure I had that on one of my leeches. Bill Coleman Entrada Erie PA On Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 19:08 Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote: The UV cover on my genoa is starting to fail, so I took it to Bacons to get repaired. I figured 5 or 6 boat bucks maybe. Well I figured wrong, the estimate came back at $1350! Yikes! Are they nuts or is this the going rate now? That seems like a pretty good chunk of an entire sail! Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35 MK I Kent Island MD USA -- Joel
Stus-List Re: Cost to replace UV cover
OTOH, as I age I often forget that I fixed/replaced/rebuilt/etc. a particular piece of gear previously—often even forgetting how I fixed it before. Thus most projects are ‘new’ to my aging brain! Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, June 21, 2022, 7:54 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: I think I am going to use the sew-on cover again, the sock seems a little involved. Last time I had a UV cover done it was $500 or so, inflation sucks. I am going to ask around a few places. One thing that can bug you about an old boat is fixing the same stuff over and over. I am after batteries again and that isn’t going to be cheap either just like the last time or the one before that or the one before that…. To make it even worse, going to Saint Michael’s on Saturday the wind was CRANKING from astern, way too much for the spinnaker, the genoa is in the shop, and I don’t even have my working jib anymore. We ended up using just the main and that was good for hitting 8 knots, but the balance was terrible. Steering a straight line and not rounding up was a bit of a challenge. In hindsight dragging out the storm jib would have been worth it for balance. Joe Coquina
Stus-List Re: air conditioner pump
+1 on Dometic. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, June 14, 2022, 11:45 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: March/Dometic. Most reliable in my opinion. -- Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 10:16 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Hey guys, I need to replace the air conditioner pump and wondered if anybody has recommendations. Chuck
Stus-List Re: Antenna cable woes
A great idea although my mast is not routinely removed—twice since new in 1995. At least this solution allows the cable to be disconnected and reconnected without cutting it, which the Shakespeare connector requires. Of course, I would need a ‘crimper’ for the male connectors—as another poster proclaimed “…it never ends…” Charlie PS: I am going to lean hard on the yard to do this fix—they were the one who broke it—as other listers have suggested! Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, May 30, 2022, 8:57 AM, Hoyt, Mike wrote: You should put a connector there anyway so that you can remove the mast in the future. Majority of boats at our club take down mast every year and are set up this way. Basically same connector as at radio and antenna ends of the cable with a barrel connector From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List Sent: May 28, 2022 7:27 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: cenel...@aol.com Subject: Stus-List Re: Antenna cable woes About 8" from where it enters the bottom of the mast in the bilge (dry). Except for working on my old knees and removing part of the sole, it is reachable. I have not found the other end that goes to the radio but I suspect it is hidden under the sole that I must remove to see/find it. Charlie -Original Message- From: Andy Frame via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Andy Frame Sent: Sat, May 28, 2022 4:26 pm Subject: Stus-List Re: Antenna cable woes Where is the cut? On 5/28/2022 12:07 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote: > The yard that removed my mast to replace the rod rigging just cut the > mast antenna cable and so I either have to have another cable run or > 'splice' the current cable using one of the Sheakspeare fittings that > claim to connect the shield and the conductor without solder, etc. > > Has any one on the list used such connectors and had any luck (or hints > on how to proceed!) or am I faced with running new cable and the expense > of someone to climb the mast, etc. The connector was only $16 so I > figured it was worth that much to give it a try. > > Thanks, > > Charlie Nelson > Water Phantom C 36 XL/kcb > New Bern, NC > > > -- s/v MaryMe 1975 C 24 Port Labelle, FL USA Amateur Radio WD4RCC
Stus-List Re: Batteries again
I agree! You might also look at Northstar (?) all virgin lead AGM batteries that come with (or used to) a very good warranty—full replacement up to 3 yrs IIRC. Sold at Batteries plus stores (and probably others). One of my crew left the fridge on when he left the boat and ruined 2 31 size Northstar near the end of the full replacement date and they were replaced with NEW ones at no charge. With that kind of customer service, I bought another Northstar from them for my start battery. YMMV but I would buy them again when necessary. Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, May 26, 2022, 11:40 AM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote: There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent. What matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the best AGM maker. FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35 MK I Kent Island MD USA From: David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: David Knecht Subject: Stus-List Batteries again I have been following the battery discussion and have a question. I need to replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season. I have separate start and house batteries which can be combined if needed. I don’t have large power needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising). I have been reading and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase. From what I have read, AH is the important number to focus on. Last time, I got Lifeline AGM group 27 from Defender. Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries Powertech rated at 92AH which cost about $330 Lifeline rated at 100AH for 432 Northstar rated at 92AH for 457 >From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with >110 AH for $239. Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) >brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers? >Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT
Stus-List Re: butyl tape supplier
I have used bed-it butyl tape for many bedding applications such as winches, ports, etc. with success, although I often wished it was available in thicker and wider dimensions. OTOH, butyl tape (not bed-it) is available at most RV stores and I have used this version with equal success. The RV variety is both thicker and wider than bed-it but not as ‘sticky/tacky’ which can be a plus.(Bed-it stickiness can be a PITA getting it off its paper protective layer and your fingers). YMMV, Charlie Nelson Water PhantomC 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Sunday, April 24, 2022, 8:13 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote: You can get it here: https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?page=search=Butyl+tape+ It is a bit silly to get it from a store north of the border (that tape would be well traveled), but at least it is there. The original source is no longer there (he had a bad stroke). Hope this works Marek Ottawa, ON Sent from my Android-based can on a string Original message From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List Date: 2022-04-24 17:54 (GMT-05:00) To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER Subject: Stus-List butyl tape supplier Original message From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List Date: 2022-04-24 17:54 (GMT-05:00) To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER Subject: Stus-List butyl tape supplier Anyone know where to order Bed-It butyl tape? Everything I tried was deadend. Please share a working link. Chuck S
Stus-List Re: Recommendation: Osprey Composites - Herrington Harbor, area Riggers
Depending on your DIY skills and the local rigger fees, etc. you might consider the following which I recentlyhad done on my 27 yr old rod rigging on my C 36 XL/kcb. A local rigger removed and shipped my original rod rigging to BSI or Rigging Only (?) for them to duplicate exactly. He then installed the new rigging, tuned it and it was done— no issues at all with adjustments beyond normal tuning. The local rigger figured that the shipping costs for the old rigging was worth it compared to a possible measurement error (on his dime) that could lead to a big mistake. FWIW, Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/KobeWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Sunday, April 17, 2022, 2:43 PM, nausetbeach--- via CnC-List wrote: We recently looked at a boat on the Chesapeake which would need some deck balsa replacement work and a rigging inspection and possibly replacement of some / all (?) of the rod rigging. Osprey Composites at Herrington Harbor / Tracy’s Landing was recommended. Anybody have any information / opinion on them? The boat has 19 year old rod rigging and do not have firm information on the last time a rigging inspection was made – probably not in the past 11 - 12 years when the current owner purchased the boat. Can anyone recommend a good rigger who could do an inspection in the West River to Herrington Harbor vicinity? The ability to inspect, and possibly fabricate new rod rigging is needed. “The Rigging Company” is one name that keeps coming up. Another is M Yacht Services rigging. Both seem to be on the higher end of the pricing spectrum. Eastcoast Marine Rigging was another name, but am not certain if they have the capability / experience to fab new rod rigging. Am not looking to change to wire. Any opinions / suggestions on these two ? Many thanks, Brian
Stus-List Keel wobble
1+ to recommendations for a serious evaluation of this issue by someone who really knows boats—naval engineer, architect, whatever, unless of course your sailing venue (current and future) is inshore in reasonable temperature waters and perhaps within easy reach of rescue and that you require all on board to wear PFDs all the time, etc. Like most on this list, I am game to tackle most any boat repair, upgrade, modification, etc. However, and often at significant cost, I pay a professional to do jobs that are either beyond my wheelhouse or would require so much prep and research that it would take forever(allowing for amateur mistakes and redoing certain jobs when the first attempt goes ‘awry’ for one reason or another). For any repair or upgrade that might send the boat to the bottom if it went awry (standing rigging replacement, hull deck joint refurbishment, centerboard pennant replacement, stuffing box issues, cutlass bearing replacement, etc.) I use a pro. Of course with a ‘well found’ boat like C, there is seldom an issue with a design flaw at the seaworthy level—in fact I am confident that my boat design, whatever the details, resulted in a boat that is ‘smarter’ than her skipper and she will only permit me to screw things up but so far before her design saves my a— once again! Most boat issues really aren’t ‘rocket science’ and are amenable to reasonable DIY fixes. IMHO, this keel wobble issue probably requires a nautical ‘rocket scientist’ (naval engineer, architect, etc. to have a look! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1985 C XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
Stus-List Re: Cutting Board Sale
If actually used as a cutting board, is there a recommended stain/varnish/etc. to apply to the board to enhance its longevity? Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, February 19, 2022, 2:39 PM, Stu via CnC-List wrote: On Monday, 21st of February, most of us will be celebrating Family Day in Canada and Presidents' Day in the USA. In recognition of these holidays, the price for the customized cutting boards is reduced -- no charge for boat name or special font. A savings up to $8.00. This is a 1 day only sale. Impress you wife, the admiral, your crew and dock mates with a one-of-a-kind charcuterie/cutting board. Stu http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/cutting_boards cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list
Stus-List Re: Fwd: Forestay Backing Plate
This looks like a serious repair that involves the forestay which is essential for rig stability and boat/crew safety—much more than cosmetic IMHO. I have done many cosmetic repairs to my boat, including some serious fibreglass/epoxy work as well as building a wooden dinghy with the stitch and glue/epoxy method so I have what I call some serious experience, albeit ‘amateur’ with this stuff. FWIW, I would hand this serious structural repair off to a professional. As a club racer, I and my crew have put my 1995 C XL/kcb in some pretty awful situations, mostly involving a kite, but I have never worried about a ‘gravity storm’, even with the boat on her side with 2 ft of water in the cockpit! Our boats were designed to be smarter than their owners (IMHO) and messing with structural issues might be unwise without professional input or repair. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 2:31 PM, Brian Morrison via CnC-List wrote: From: Brian Morrison Date: February 7, 2022 at 11:59:05 PM EST To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Forestay Backing Plate Hello All, As I shared back in the summer I had an untimely rendezvous with a buoy that caused some pretty severe damage to the bow of my 1979 C 34. I am in the process of purchasing parts and supplies so when the weather permits I’ll be ready to work. I’m in need of advice as I have never done any extensive fiberglass work. What “system” should I use to make the strongest repair and best way to do it? Where can I obtain a new backing plate to attach the forestay or any recommendations on where I can have one made? Hopefully the pics won’t be too large to share. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Brian Morrison
Stus-List Re: Looking for a transmission for a yanmar
Joel: I may have one that might work—came from Beta 28 that needed a different reduction ratio for the folding prop I installed. If there is a chance it would work (need details of reduction ratio, etc.) it’s his for the shipping cost. I can check out what this transmission’s specs are by middle of Jan—it’s nearer boat than I am currently! OTOH, AFAIK it was the standard trans used on the Beta 28 in ~ early 2000s which was a drop in replacement for my the Yanmar 30 GFH(?—don’t remember these letter details!). FWIW, Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 3:43 PM, Joel Delamirande via CnC-List wrote: Good afternoon sailors I have a sailor looking to buy a transmission For a yanmar 3HM35F or a replacement transmission Joel -- Joel Delamirandewww.jdroofing.ca Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?
You might also consider a Forte whisker or spin pole. I have both on Water Phantom and they have worked well for almost 20 years. When I bought mine (spin first) they were less expensive than the Forespar equivalent and the were made on a mandrel with biaxial carbon fiber impregnated with resin so they are both very strong—back then they were considered stronger than the Forespar equivalent. Your current mileage may vary of course! Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, November 18, 2021, 2:02 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote: Bruce, I have installed a whisker pole. The link below is a folder for pictures of the entire mast project. Inside is a folder for the whisker pole. Forespar makes the telescoping pole with the adjustable T-track fitting and jaw. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1eSqX7wZP1r77hD84wDmGAQSI0Tqbn9xm More details available upon request. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 09:28 Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List wrote: Hello all, I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker pole on our 37/40+. The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, and does not have a whisker pole onboard. Nor does it have the equipment for a spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker. I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large asymmetrical spinnaker. Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces together that has a ring mounted at the bottom. I don't think it would get the perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring? A photo of that bolt/ring can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0 The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if not all the time I would be using it. In the case of the big asymmetrical, I think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet. Can anyone provide any insights? Thank you!!! Bruce Whitmore1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Temperature gauge on Yanmar
Sounds like a great idea—I look forward to list ideas. One key is to place gauge where it can be seen easily—on the engine control panel is not ideal considering the contortions one must endure to read anything in most engine panels placed down low and with barely enough room to get your head in front of the gauges to read them! Mostly thru ‘pilot error’, I destroyed my Yanmar 30 GMF? head when I lost all cooling water somehow and no alarm sounded—the stock temp sensor apparently needs water to work—no water, no alarm, no problem until the head gasket/head itself cracks!! I now have an overflow tank on my Beta 28 that I check before any motor use to be sure there is water in the system. YMMV, Charlie NelsonWater OhantonC 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Wednesday, October 27, 2021, 1:37 PM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Has anyone installed a dedicated temperature gauge on a yanmar engine similar to 3GM30F? Can it be as simple as attaching to the sender unit that goes to the idiot light on the control panel? When a panel alarm goes off I usually shut down the engine immediately and forget to check which lamp was lit. Would be nice to have a temp gauge for reference. I do have an oil pressure gauge and would love to have both Thanks Mike Persistence Haliofax Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again
I hope my experience in brackish NC sound/rivers is similar. Tried it for first
time this past spring.
Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC 36 XL/kcb
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Saturday, October 23, 2021, 2:17 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List
wrote:
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I know thissubject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the spring
that I wastrying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so here it is.
It israining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE, so . ..
The paintis Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the results
were nothingless than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and girl) were
in awe, andsaid it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this year.
There wassome scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few inches,
mostly onthe north side, oddly enough. But the rest was amazingly clean. Of
note, herein the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there has been some
new growththat no one seems to know anything about, looks like a spider web
growing allover the bottom, and there was NONE of that. No Zebra Mussels,
nothing.
It iscalled ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous
year’spaint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it called for
twoinitial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I liked is that
thereis no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep stirring it
asyou go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, Three
Ingredients, CopperThiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione. I wouldn’t
consider it a racingpaint, but after a month, I might. One of the guys hauled
his First 40 out andcleaned it (VC17) for the last race two weeks before his
final haulout, and hisbottom was a mess, complete with ‘spiderwebs’ and Zebra
Mussels. He was amazedto see how much scum was back on 2 weeks later.
I think it’sthe Zinc . . . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.
Bill Coleman
Entrada, Erie, PA
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Insurance
Will do—the agent was independent and perhaps under different rules from Progressive. I tried with him since the on-line process was a PITA but if I can save some money, I can take a little PITA. Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 3:31 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote: >From their website: Sailboat insurance limitations We insure most sailboats and even cover racing usage, but we do have some limitations including: - Sailboats over 50 feet in length and valued at more than $350,000 - Sailboats used as a primary residence (live aboards) - Sailboats that don’t meet published U.S. Coast Guard standards - Wood or steel hulls I just upped my liability insurance cover to $500K for an extra $88 a year with no issues. Are you SURE about this? It took me about 10 minutes to get coverage online, try going straight to their website. Joe Coquina From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:52 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: cenel...@aol.com Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US. Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after some delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures boats (or at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet. Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft! Charlie Nelson -Original Message- From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Doug Robinson Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance OOps, Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was covered for storing in Canada was wrong. Refund will take 12 to 14 days and required some work to unwind in my paypal account. So I will move my search to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area. Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before wasting our time... FDR On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: I've had Progressive for the last twelve years. Never had a claim. No survey required during that time. I got it mostly for liability and becasue marinas require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in case of loss. Each year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always renew. Chuck S On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote: I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year. I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for that--$250/year which I may drop. Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent? Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer to get them to pay a claim. Charlie Nelson 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom Greenville, NC -Original Message- From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List To: Stus-List Cc: ALAN BERGEN Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance They didn't ask me for a survey. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List wrote: When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed. After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed. Matt Wolford 1976 C 42 Custom From: Glenn Henderson via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM To: Stus-List Cc: Glenn Henderson Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance Did they require a full survey? Glenn and Lindsey Henderson C 41 WeGo On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote: I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check, I asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of insurance was $487/year. I am now a Progressive customer. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$ Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list
Stus-List Re: help with hull numbers
Has it been determined that C never skipped some hull numbers as different modifications to say a 30 Mk I were incorporated. In that case perhaps hull number 129 was followed by hull #200 which was the same ‘model’ but incorporated a new/improved something or other. Skipping numbers in a sequence is not unheard of in many industries. Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, October 8, 2021, 9:03 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: I think 351 C 35 MKI and MK II combined. Only 147 MKII’s and 204 MKl’s. And the marine carpenters did real nice teak work back in the mid 70’s and the hulls are thick solid polyester resin with glass fibre. No coring like balsa below the toe rail. Heavy and tough yet sleek looking and fast. No characteristic sword and dagger but unmistakable C quality. I love the shear lines of my MKII and the extensive teak carpentry below decks. However, Considering the work required nowadays and the type of sailing I enjoy, I think I would trade my 35MKII for a good 30 MKI with diesel auxiliary power. On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 8:53 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: I have a 1973 C 35 Mk I, so in 73 they were not on MK IIs yet. I am hull number 179. The number of boats they built seems inconceivable today and they weren’t cheap, we paid more for our USED 35 than we did for our house! Joe Coquina From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 5:37 AM To: Stus-List Cc: dwight veinot Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: help with hull numbers I think you got it right. The C 30 MKI was a very popular design and my experience she is one helluva good boat. The company was turning out a lot of boats in 1974. My 35MK II hull 242 was also a 1974 model. I am not sure if there was a 1973 35MKII. Your 30 is one of the stiffest designs in the C line and slippery too. Good accommodations below as well. Congrats you got a good one. Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu -- Sent from Gmail MobileThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Bed-It Butyl Tape
Try RV outfitters—Camping World carries wider and thicker butyl tape. Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, October 2, 2021, 9:29 AM, Matt Wolford via CnC-List wrote: A related question: does anyone know of a comparable butyl tape that is wider? On 02.10.2021 08:14, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: > https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/butyl-tape-bed-it-1-2--x-50--roll-4482.html > [3] > > -- > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 5:15 AM DJ via CnC-List > wrote: > >> So, marine-how-to is run by just one man and he had a stroke a few >> weeks ago (I posted about it, here, at the time). Last I heard he >> was alert but had a long recovery ahead of him. There is no one to >> service the site or the store right now. So, I believe they just >> disabled the whole thing. >> >> It's going to take some searching to find the right stuff. >> >> Please, let us all know if you're able to find a source. >> >> Danny >> >> On Oct 2, 2021 2:19 AM, Donald Kern via CnC-List >> wrote: >> >>> I went to the web site that >>> this forum recommended to purchase a roll of Bed-It tape and did >>> not find that the tape was available. Did _Marine how to_ get >>> out of the Butyl tape business? Is there a recommended alternate >>> ? >>> >>> Don Kern >>> _Fireball,_ C Mk2 >>> Bristol, RI >> >> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to >> help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to >> the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- >> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray [2] Thanks - Stu > > > > Links: > -- > [1] http://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape > [2] https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > [3] > https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/butyl-tape-bed-it-1-2--x-50--roll-4482.html > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help > with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Fuel pump
Had a similar problem to yours several years ago. After doing most of what you have done, my diesel mechanic suggested just replacing the Racor MA 500(?) top plate since even a little over tightening can push the middle down enough that the O-ring on the circumference will leak enough that after running for a while the air inside it gets into the fuel lines. This was a cheap enough thing to do that I did it—along with a few other ‘fixes’ and the problem went away. Since it was not the only change I made, I can’t be certain that the new top plate solved the problem or if it was something else. Note I am pretty sure that the instructions for the Racor say to only hand tighten this plate or something similar—I now know why! Given how little extra tightening it would take at the Center to deflect the circumference/O-ring joint enough to suck air in, (probably a few microns could break the vacuum seal) and over time you have air bubbles that get to the engine or at least prevent fuel from getting to the engine. FWIW, Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 12:36 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I meant bypass the Racor, turn on the pump and collect fuel into a secondary container to test. I agree that I would not run the engine that way. I am presuming that the flow of fuel through the filter should be a good test of the system since the problem was I was getting air into the primary Racor holder, so a vacuum leak likely somewhere. Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT On Sep 23, 2021, at 9:53 AM, Neil Andersen wrote: I would think that risky. If the Racor is the issue because it is doing its job and there is particulate matter coming from the tank, bypassing it will allow the matter to get to the engine. Neil Andersen1982 C 32, FoxFireRock Hall, MD 21661484-354-8800From: David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 9:36:44 AM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: David Knecht Subject: Stus-List Re: Fuel pump Hi Dennis- The Racor looks OK, but of course that says nothing. I don’t know the Racor model but it is older since it does not have the threaded top that you can add a gauge to. Since that is a more expensive alteration, I thought I would replace the fuel lines first and see if that fixes the problem. If not, I thought I would bypass the Racor and see if it works that way and if so, replace the Racor itself. Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT On Sep 23, 2021, at 9:31 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: What type of fuel filter do you have? If it's a Racor MA500, the top may be warped or the gasket may be cracked or displaced. Those are not infrequent issues with that filter. Either condition could result in air inleakage. -- Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LAThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Eva faux decking
Yes— but only the below deck stuff which is glued on—not sure if it’s the same stuff you are referring to. Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, September 20, 2021, 7:55 AM, Rod Stright via CnC-List wrote: Has anyone use the EVA teak marine decking? If so do you recommend it and are you aware of a supplier here in Canada and/or Nova Scotia? Rod Halifax Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: anyone gone lithium?
Agree with Chuck and Randy. The DIY approach many of us have with regard to our boat systems is not likely to be adequate for current Li batteries of which I know nothing except they can be charged rapidly and they keep going rather well until they don’t! When the battery and charger manufacturers agree on some standard that a boater can understand without an EE degree, it might be time for Li. Until then, I will pass. I will stay with my simple Lead-acid batteries and standard battery chargers/alternators whose ‘bugs’ have been virtually eliminated during the last CENTURY of improvements to both. OTOH, when Li batteries are as straightforward to hook up and charge as lead-acid, reasonably priced compared to lead-acid, available everywhere, etc. I will buy them as a better solution—not just because they are the ‘latest’ in battery technology. FWIW, Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, September 14, 2021, 12:17 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Agree with Randy. The cost of Lithium batteries and all the necessary power/charging management devices, prohibits the purchase unless you plan to keep the boat for twenty or thirty years. I would only do it for a newer, bigger boat that can support enough Solar Panels to be off grid, like a big cat. Otherwise, keep it simple. Several YouTube sailors have installed the system and I can find those links if interested. Or google "Sailing Uma", "Ran Sailing", and/or "Sail Life" along with "lithium batteries" Chuck S On 09/14/2021 11:52 AM Randal Stafford via CnC-List wrote: What’s the upside? I got seven years out of a pair of group 29s Everstarts from Walmart, just replaced for $90 each. And I just replaced the alternator on my A4, which lasted 49 years. But the way I use my boat doesn’t require having a state-of-the-art battery system. Cheers, Randy On Sep 14, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: My batteries are about shot and I am thinking of going to lithium batteries. I have to say I thought I knew this stuff and it seems massively confusing with a ton of directly contradictory information. One big issue seems that if the BMS disconnects for any reason, that will do a lot of damage to your alternator and perhaps other equipment too. Add to that my regulator does not have a specific lithium setting, I would need to get into the custom menus and try and make one. What seems to be the best bet is just to connect the alternator to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger to charge the lithium bank. Some of them also take solar input, so that saves me buying a solar controller with lithium settings, which is something else I don’t currently have. Joe Coquina Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Boat Donation to Charity?
Where can I find more boat info—is she on a listing somewhere?
In particular, how has her cb been ‘permanently’ raised? What might be involved
in making it retractable again?
Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Saturday, September 11, 2021, 6:31 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List
wrote:
Joe,
No dead bodies. She surveyed great two years ago.
The only thing she may need now is bottom paint. And that could wait a while.
All the best,
Edd
———-Edd M. SchillayCaptain of the “Starship Enterprise”C 37+ |
Sail No.: NCC-1701-BVenice Yacht Club | Venice Island,
FL———-914.774.9767 | Mobile———-Sent via iPhone 11
ProiPhone. iTypos. iApologize
On Sep 11, 2021, at 2:50 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List
wrote:
#yiv7901418626 #yiv7901418626 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered
{}#yiv7901418626 #yiv7901418626 p.yiv7901418626MsoNormal, #yiv7901418626
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Ed – gotta ask – is there a dead body in the boat? Core saturated? Seems like a
nice boat.
From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Edd Schillay
Subject: Stus-List Boat Donation to Charity?
Listers,
Any suggestions on a good charity to donate a boat to? Preferably one that will
actually use the boat instead of selling it for charity funds (Fair market
value deduction)
It looks like things are moving forward with the next Enterprise and I’d like
to avoid paying two insurance and slip bills.
(Meaning: Yes, I will sell this boat for dirt cheap at this point. Bring
offers!)
All the best,
Edd
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - StuThanks to
all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs
involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send
contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: 36' wheel to tiller conversion?
FWIW, I advise careful consideration of a hydraulic steering system. I have only helmed one boat with such a system which we tried unsuccessfully to sail to Bermuda in November. Notwithstanding the folly of attempting such a crossing from NC after hurricane season (early November) but with nor’easters aplenty in this time frame, our Whitby 42 full keel cruiser was hydraulically steered. This steering was perhaps easy on the upper body but I found it to be a PITA in practice. The most annoying characteristic was the lag time/delay between a turn of the wheel and the subsequent response of the rudder/boat. I was only one of the crew and the boat was rigged for serious cruising but I never was able to get ‘in tune’ with this delay. Of course I was a novice steering a full keel (13000 lb) boat that displaced >30,000 lb so that contributed to my difficulties and never mind that the nor’easter we encountered a few days off NC destroyed our anemometer at 41 knots. YMMV but IMHO, hydraulic steering is an oxymoron! Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, September 11, 2021, 5:36 PM, jacob fuerst via CnC-List wrote: It's currently chain and cable not hydraulic but I definitely feel the wheel load up in reverse and if you're not careful could whip a tiller over Jacob Fuerst 303-520-4669 On Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 9:41 AM Korbey Hunt via CnC-List wrote: When using the engine there is a lot of torque on the tiller. I suspect a hudraulic wheel system would be much easier to operate. Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 8:21:29 AM To: 'Stus-List' Cc: j...@dellabarba.com Subject: Stus-List Re: 36' wheel to tiller conversion? I used to sail my 35 with a tiller when it was raining until I got an autopilot. The tiller allowed me to get under the dodger. I cannot see how the rudder stock would be under any more or less strain than with the wheel. Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35 MK I Kent Island MD USA From: jacob fuerst via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 3:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: jacob fuerst Subject: Stus-List 36' wheel to tiller conversion? Hi All, Just thinking through converting my 1978 36 wheel to tiller. It seems very simple. The rudder stock is accessible on the cockpit floor and has a 1 1/4" square head where the emergency tiller goes. Many considerations but my question to you is if the factory floor and head and bearing construction are sufficiently strong to handle the regular forces of tiller steering or only for the forces to be through the quadrant below deck? -- Jacob Fuerst 303-520-4669 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design
W/L racing is also ‘encouraged’ by some PROs when their mark boats are limited to only 1. Much easier to adjust the course if you only need to either adjust the line or move only 1 or at most 2 marks (W and L). Moving a jibe mark efficiently to provide a ‘more perfect’ triangle usually requires another mark boat. If your PRO is on the ‘perfect’ side, He/she will insist on moving all marks if the wind shifts significantly—more difficult and time consuming with a jibe mark. Such a PRO lets ‘..the perfect be the enemy of the good..’ IMHO. As a club PHRF racer and a sailor, I never expect a perfect course, W/L or triangle—you deal with what you have from nature,a shifting wind, waves, etc.Those sailors who adapt to conditions, including a skewed course, either better or faster or both or with a different sail, etc. will often be in the podium, not whining about the skewed course from their position in the audience. If the sailors of long ago waited for perfect conditions, they would rarely been able to leave their home port!! Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, September 10, 2021, 12:55 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List wrote: The problem is with the handicap numbers. A triangle course has only 33% beat, if equilateral. The more you spread out the offset mark, the less percentage the beat; the more you pull it in, the higher percentage beat.For PHRF to work, I believe they recommend at least a 40% beat. Preferred is a 50% beat like a windward/leeward or a triangle with an extra beat.On a dead downwind course one should sail their best angle for the wind speed, not go dead downwind. That's true even for the white sail fleet. There was a great article decades ago about the pole adjusted forward to improve the broad reach for white sailed boats. But with my filing system, I'll never be able to produce it if asked.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL On Friday, September 10, 2021, 11:31:22 AM CDT, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: This is an ongoing issue with racing, everything is W/L dinghy racing no matter if your boat is 10 feet long or 110 feet long. Back in the day when men were men and sheep were scared we used government marks and you got what you got, reaches, beats, runs, whatever. When I used to RC C races I decided dead downwind on a hot day was misery for the white sail fleet, so the spinnaker boats went on a W/L course and the non-spin fleet used the same windward mark but had an offset somewhere, say beam reach to the offset and then broad reach to finish. Less tactics but less heatstroke too! Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: C 25 mast fittings
My local rigger is taking no chances re-rigging my 95 C 36XL. He sent it all to Rigging Only(?) in Rhode Is and will reinstall with new which has been matched exactly. Some parts of older rigging are often not available and must be replaced with similar or manufactured ($$$) to match. I bit the bullet and paid an expert to reduce the chance of a personal gravity storm!! CharlieWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Wednesday, September 8, 2021, 4:49 PM, MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List wrote: You really need to disassemble the rigging and measure the fittings to ensure you get the correct size T-Ball fittings and that they fit into the backing plates. On most boats I re-rig I don’t order parts until I have disassembled the rigging and know exactly what I need. If you are going to do it yourself I’d recommend that you use either Sta-Lok or Hayn Hi-Mod fittings. Mike Mike BrannonVirginia Lee 932951978 C 36 CBVirginia Beach, VA On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:58 PM, Stephen Kidd via CnC-List wrote: Greetings, We are planning to replace our standing rigging this fall and I'm trying to figure out what type of upper fitting is needed for the shrouds. The owner's manual (1980 C 25 mkII) simply says "T-ball" for the forestay and upper/lower shrouds. Looking around, it appears there are a number of variants out there. Assuming that T-ball and T-bar are the same in this case (please correct me if I'm wrong on this point), I'm thinking they would be of the "old style" since it is a 1980 model. Does anyone happen to know what sort of fittings we'll need for the upper ends? We'll be ordering (local riggers seem to be unavailable and the only estimate I got was $6,000), which leaves us on the hook for figuring out the details. We're planning on sending a GoPro up to take some pictures and look around at things later this week, but we really don't know what to look for (any identifying characteristics?). Step ladders make me nervous, so I'm happy to let the camera make the first ascent. Thank You!Stephen KiddC 25 - Sweet ChariotWashington DCThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: universal M20 diesel question
If it runs freely and rpms increase normally w/o trans engaged, I would look at the trans, packing gland too tight/shaft not aligned/cutless bearing/etc.——-something that is ‘aft’ of the engine. Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Wednesday, September 8, 2021, 1:43 AM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List wrote: I’d go with injectors. Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660 On Sep 7, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Dave via CnC-List wrote: Evening all. Trying to help a neighbour here with a diesel issue. His engine will rev freely at idle but with the transmission engaged in either forward or reverse, revs increase very slowly and only to 1800-2000 RPM on the tach. (whether tach is accurate or not, RPM under load is much lower than no-load, and RPM increases quite slowly.) We have verified that neither the exhaust system nor the fuel supply to the high pressure pump is obstructed. Air Intake is clear. The speed lever works smoothly to its full travel. The compression release is not engaged. The engine runs a new facet electric fuel pump with plenty of flow. When the engine is running, no fuel returns to the tank via the return line. The return line is not blocked, at least not downstream from the return barb at the injector. I am not sure under what circumstances the fuel should return to the tank in a diesel, as the return occurs after the high pressure pump. All This leads me to suspect a fuel (volume) problem but i am not exactly sure where to look next. I believe all that’s left are injectors and high pressure pump. The high pressure pump has a governor, not sure if that functions by restricting fuel flow. Any thoughts? Many thanks! Dave 33-2 Sent from Mail for Windows Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Another Solar question
I use a ~ 30 watt solar to keep my batteries topped off without using shore power even when it is available. It is wired directly to my start battery and my ACR keeps both batteries topped off. My question is should I put a fuse in the positive output from the solar controller—IIRC it has a MPPT controller—to prevent a disaster in case a short develops anywhere in the panel/controller/hook-up/ etc.? If so, about what size fuse? Thanks, Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom My question is should Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Sunday, August 29, 2021, 4:39 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: Does your bilge pump run that much in a week to drain your batteries. Must be a lot of water getting in On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 4:35 PM Danny Haughey via CnC-List wrote: Hi all, So, I took the solar panels and the Bimini in for the hurricane that was coming least week. And I had to keep them off for the week because I couldn't get back to the boat, and the batteries went down to 11.4 I guess running the bilge pump all week. I put the panels back up and I'm getting the voltage out of them but the victron is not charging the batteries. Would this be an indication that the batteries charge has gotten too low and that the Charger won't start the charge? Thanks, Danny Original message From: Stu via CnC-List Date: 8/29/21 12:19 PM (GMT-05:00) To: C Email List Cc: Stu Subject: Stus-List Don't forget the upcoming rendezvous Good afternoon Don’t forget our next online/virtual rendezvous on Tuesday,Aug 31, 2021 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada). You must register in advance for this meeting:https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZUtdeGrpj0iGNCGFaM3Jukol37WHaa09Z9e After registering, you will receive information about joining the meeting. Hope to see you there. Stay safe ‘n’ healthyStuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu -- Sent from Gmail MobileThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Painting cabin headliner
I had my main cabin head/ceiling brush painted with 1 part Brightsides (Pettit?) White and it looks better than new—especially the plastic hole covers which now finally match the ceiling. Amazing how much nicer/finished this looks compared to the original. Of course about 25 years have gone by since the boat was new—that might have something to do with it! :>) Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Wednesday, August 25, 2021, 10:28 AM, WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List wrote: On my 1981 C n C 36 the cabin interior headliner is a vinyl glued to a thin sheet of Luan plywood. I have removed all and am going to seal coat the plywood with epoxy. Wondering if anyone painted theirs and how it turned out and lasted. I see some spray paint for plastics and wonder if that might work. I could remove the vinyl and start over but that seems like a lot of work...Bill WalkerEvening StarPENTWATER, Mi.Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: need fuel pump for Universal M4-30
I added a pair of in-line filter/pumps (in parallel and electrically switchable). After multiple engine stalls over many months and the subsequent searches for vacuum leaks/fuel starvation/etc. ad nauseam my mechanic suggested I bypass the Beta-28 fuel pump. He thought that it was likely working OK but its lift was barely enough to reliably deliver fuel under all conditions. However, between the Racor, fuel pick-up tube, new fuel tank, all new fuel hoses, filters, etc. including distorting the Racor top by over tightening and then replacing it, the exact cause of the problem may never be known! Bottom line is that this fuel PITA has not reoccurred since I added the electric pumps. Perhaps not totally understood, but the problem is now gone. FWIW and YMMV Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, 11:40 AM, Dave S via CnC-List wrote: All - I will assume this engine consumes less than 1 gal per hour and all that the pump does is provide lift - pretty non critical as far as fuel pumps go. This type is commonly used in smaller displacement vintage car restorations, and would assume aircraft. Reputable brand, very basic. At C$60 buy two and keep one as a spare. https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/pnpages/40106.php?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvO2IBhCzARIsALw3ASpONQOKjx8iPBFkovKXohPDNEeRiZQF7H6kvcQa4CIHv4rFnw6ryIQaAvV8EALw_wcB Any reason that this would not be suitable? FWIW - I replaced my original 2GM20 yanmar mechanical fuel pump this season, and only after the priming shaft O-ring began to seep. Didn't really see the need to go to an electric pump and I like the integral priming lever. Not sure why folks seem to convert these to electric pumps if the OE pump is long lived, self powered and integrated with the engine? Any thoughts? Dave On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 at 09:35, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Hey Dwight, Back in 2003, I got a fuel booster pump from NAPA. It cost around $110 then. The original on my boat was black and had no markings so the counter guy selected a pump with low a pressure rating which matched one used by Nissan pickups. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R On 08/17/2021 1:35 AM Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List wrote: Universal (westerbeke now) has them, but the prices are quite high. In the US, a NAPA store can get them for about half the price. Mine was about 125$. Now I'm waiting for a cool day to get below and install. My engine is the M25XP but I would imagine that it wouldn't be any harder for the M4-30. Ron Wild Cheri C 30-1 STL Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Wire vs. Dyneema check stays
I have decided to replace my standing rigging on Water Phantom, my now 26 yr old 1995 C XL/kcb. The rigger has recommended staying with a rod replacement vs. wire to better match the rod fittings, esp. at the mast head and to save money. He also recommends going with dyneema, instead of wire, for the check stays. My concern is uv damage to the dyneema which I understand has been a problem with using it vs. wire. His response is that the early coatings used to protect dyneema led to short lifetimes but that the newer coatings have solved that problem. OTOH, my wire check stays are still fine “…after all these years…” My question is should I go with dyneema for the checks or stay with new wire assuming the costs are similar? Thanks, Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Lewmar Small hatch handle
I have used the Plexus (I think) that Lewmar recommended on two different small hatches on my 1995 C One I think I did twice in 25+ years, the other is still holding. Given the stress that can be put on the handle/portlight plastic ‘joint’, I was amazed that it held at all—certainly would not want to get that Plexus on my fingers! BTW, of the 3 ‘failures’, 2 were the result of crew stepping on the plastic while the hatch was held in the ‘cracked open’ position or open but with the handle turned.. One thing I did not do was to try to clean-up the old ‘glue’ since some was left on both surfaces and removing it would have been a PITA. I otherwise followed the directions and used a C-clamp to squeeze the handle to the plexiglass during the curing process. YMMV, Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, July 22, 2021, 6:08 PM, Rod Stright via CnC-List wrote: Anyone have experience with securing the handle on the small hatch handle. The handle in this case is glued to the hatch and is not through bolted like the bigger hatches. The newer version has a bolt through handle so I assume they have lost of issues with the handles falling off. I have used two types of epoxies recommended by Lewmar and neither has worked. Rod Halifax Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: C 37/40+ For Sale -- Massive Price Drop
Who knows—they were different boats although the cb design was pretty similar! Further there are competing influences in play—dropping board adds to wetted surface, mast height, etc. plus if the cb trunk and board were mostly copied and added to a smaller, lighter, shorter water line boat like mine it may have a more noticeable effect. All that being said, at any wind speed my 36 XL/kcb goes to weather noticeably higher with the board down.So much so, I still marvel at the difference at the helm when the board is lowered and look forward to driving her higher to weather. Charlie Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, July 15, 2021, 9:20 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List wrote: Charlie, Interesting. I’m not all that familiar with the 36XL, but it appears to be a design merger of the 1989-1990 34/36 series and the older 36’s. Perhaps Rob Ball can shed some light. We raced this boat heavily and saw no difference in pointing in the 10-knot and under range, which was typical for Western LI Sound. In very heavy air (25+), we did see a slight difference, but even when the board was sealed in, the 37+ was still going through the chop better than the other boats who had to head off due to conditions. I initially sealed the board in to keep costs and headaches down, but was pleasantly surprised at how well the boat performed once the deed was done — in some cases better than when it wasn’t. All the best, Edd Edd M. SchillayCaptain of the Starship EnterpriseC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-BVenice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL On Jul 14, 2021, at 10:53 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote: Hey Edd--I love the boat you are selling--unfortunately when I bought my 36 XL/kcb a new 37/40 kcb was out of my financial reach!! Mine is a slightly smaller version of the 37/40 and has a very similar centerboard arrangement. Since I do mostly club racing in the relatively thin NC sounds/rivers, I would never consider glassing in the board(maybe if I stopped racing) although I know of others with C who have done this for the reasons you mention. I also agree that since both boats have a massive cb trunk (mine is about 4700 lbs), it sails pretty well with the board (~925 lbs) up or even glassed in. OTOH, when I put my board down from 4.5 ft to 7.25 ft, she straightens right up and sails to weather at least 5 degrees closer to the wind--and if I and the crew are on our game, we are very seldom beaten to the weather mark in most breezes above 8 knots by any boat in our size/PHRF handicap range. Downwind, kite or not, we grind the board up (not easy or quick) and with decent spinnaker work or just flying a genoa with a whisker pole, again we are seldom passed (although we don't gain much either!). As you know, the cb trunk is both massive in length, weight and width so it adds significant wetted surface compared to a skinny (and deep) fin keel. I agree that there is some drag/turbulence from the cb slot but both our boards have an elliptical shape so that no matter how far the board is extended, it fully 'fills' the slot--as opposed to many cb boats with more or less rectangular boards that do not fill the slot with the board as the cb is dropped. Since I haul her yearly for new bottom paint, and have the cb pennant replaced at ~5 year intervals, my added expense with the board is minimal. However, the yard must always do the board painting while it is hanging in travel lift--they have an aversion to having the board fully down, and the boat very high on jack stands! And most yards do not like to dig a hole so that the board can be extended either! Good luck with your next boat! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb -Original Message- From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List To: Stus-List Cc: Edd Schillay Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 4:07 pm Subject: Stus-List Re: C 37/40+ For Sale -- Massive Price Drop Joel, We sealed the board in and glassed the bottom, so she’s the world’s only shoal-draft model. 4.9 feet of draft and we saw no change in performance. In fact, without the slot and drag, the boat actually sailed faster in anything under 10 knots of breeze and the same up to the 15-knot range. And, no headache of thousands of dollars of maintenance every several years (board maintenance requires a haul-out and time in the travel lift.) See: https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3b_NHX1Rm0g/WZtCEYGgAUI/AAABmVY/iTwxeuxOcC0c6h5lOQN3Yyr-fbDcGD_rwCLcBGAs/s1600/centerboard.jpg If you really want to restore the board, any competent yard could do it. But, seriously, she sails better with it sealed in. All the best, Edd Edd M. SchillayCaptain of the Starship EnterpriseC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-BVenice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL On Jul 14, 2021, at 3:55 PM, Joel Delamirande via CnC-List wrote: What kind of keel do u have nowAnd why take off the swings keel On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List wrote: Edd Stop it,
Stus-List Re: Rescue at sea.
Thank you—knowing that, it is amazing that he was able to stand on the rescue ship per the video!! Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 2:19 PM, Randal Stafford wrote: At 2:20 in the video a voice says the captain is very tired and has been at sea for at least 7 days. The document at 17:19 says Mr. Steeby left Virginia 5 June, arrived Bermuda 11 June and was refused entry. It says after three days of drifting in bad weather he was lost. So that would have been 14 June. I agree that from what could be seen on the video the boat looked operative. Maybe he sought help out of exhaustion. I arrived in Bermuda on June 16th to crew the delivery of Joel Aronson’s Hylas 44 Atlantis back to the US June 17-22. Joel had sailed Atlantis to Bermuda a couple weeks before that with four aboard. For months in advance Joel and the delivery crew had been monitoring and discussing Bermuda’s COVID-related entry requirements (by sea and air). Yes, it was a stringent process that required fast turnaround of pre-departure PCR tests and travel authorization applications. Given the weather we encountered on several days of our passage (with a crew of five, split into watches), I imagine it would have been extremely exhausting for Mr. Steeby to have been sailing solo for nine or more days. Best Regards,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC 30-1 #79Ken Caryl, CO On Jul 1, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote: I could not determine from the video what went wrong that the skipper required rescue--I could see exhaust from Jenny on the video and the sails looked fine--although the spreaders may have been damaged while she was tied up to the BIG ship. Anyone know the "...rest of the story..."? Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C XL/kcb -Original Message- From: John McCrea via CnC-List To: 'Stus-List' Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 1:30 pm Subject: Stus-List Re: Rescue at sea. Wow, I was just out there 3 days after that. I did the return leg of the Bermuda 1-2. Flex in on 6/14 from Boston. It was a process getting the Travel Authorization. Submitting you’re your online application with evidence of a vacine card and PCR test two days before I left and then another before you are allowed to leave the airport. Then quarantine in your room until they email you. (I must be honest me and another friend that was returning on another boat had a nice rental apartment and we had another Skipper drop-off beer and steaks, thanks to Tom Kent on Kent Racing a Class 40). They had just opened up inside dining the week before we got there and the whole island is still very much where we were back a few months ago. But still my favorite place and my 5th 1-2. Hoping to go on my boat someday but she will need some big upgrades! I was on a very nicely equipped Tartan 35 but one thing it did not have was a second autopilot and yup the inevitable happened and we steered close to 700 miles by hand! 8 days later and finally feel normal again. From: Randal Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:37 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Randal Stafford Subject: Stus-List Re: Rescue at sea. So I assume S/V Jenny is adrift somewhere in the North Atlantic? It was tough to see her hull and spreaders banging into that tanker. I wonder what will become of the boat - how long it can stay afloat, where it will end up. I guess eventually the guy would have run out of water and provisions. Cheers,Randy On Jun 30, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote: We left Virginia 3 days after this guy! Bermuda requires a covid travel authorization and test, but I'm shocked they refused entry. However, they are Covid-paranoid, as almost every case they have seen has been from a foreign traveler.I know another sailor who was permitted entry to make repairs on his way to Puerto Rico this winter. Wonder what the rest of the story is. Joel | | Virus-free. www.avg.com | On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 2:38 PM Steve Thomas via CnC-List wrote: Wow. Refused entry to the harbour. Not the Bermuda I remember. Steve Thomas-- Original Message -- From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dave.god...@me.com Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 1:20 PM Subject: Stus-List Rescue at sea. I’m posting this thread because there may those amongst the list that will find this interesting. This post is somewhat C related because the subject of the video upgraded his boat near mine. He just did his upgrades with much more alacrity. Kim is an acquaintance of mine, lives in the same town and has attended more than one of our annual Sock Burning Parties. I’ve assisted him with some of his projects. Prior to his setting sail for Bermuda, I worked along with another very experience offshore sailor (in the yard repainting his Valiant 42 with triple spreader carbon rig) to get him prepped and sorted away. The Valiant owner leant Kim his life raft.
Stus-List Re: Gelcoat colour matching
I have used Kiwi but not tinted it. I have heard/read that it is done easily at paint stores/big box stores etc. So I think it is pretty easy to do and match if you have a sample from your boat for them to use for the match. Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, May 24, 2021, 4:33 PM, Robert Mazza via CnC-List wrote: On a ralated subject, has anyone tintedwhite Kiwi Grip to better match the off- white gelcoat surrounding it? Rob On Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:12 AM Dave S via CnC-List, wrote: Same question for hull chips - small batch for touch up of my 33-2For the deck - I had a gallonof gel coat tinted by Canada composites - I had a core section of deck where I polished the non skid and matched it to their box of samples - worked very well. Dave 33-2 windstar Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Adam Hayden via CnC-List wrote: Hello I am sure this has been asked before. Has anyone produced the colour charts for gelcoat repair? I replaced a number of stanchion bases and now have some holes to repair. (I have the epoxy etc just looking for the final topcoat to match the rest of the deck)Our decks are that slightly off-white light beige colour. I am in Nova Scotia so may try Burnside Fibreglass. Thanks AdamC 36State of Bliss Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada’s largest network.Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: C Mk2 - swapping jib / spinnaker halyard
Hey Dennis, I always thought that it would be faster/easier to hoist the kite for port rounding from the starboard/high side. I couldn’t wrap my head around how to do it on my boat. You suggest to just ‘swap’ the halyards inside the mast and have the port kite halyard exit the starboard side and the stud halyard exit the port side. Is this correct? Are there precautions to take regarding the halyards crossing inside the mast besides making sure they run free? My mast has the kite halyards port and starboard at the top of the mast and the jib halyard centered and lower—it is on a furler. Thanks Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Friday, May 7, 2021, 5:01 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: If I had my way, both Touche's port spin halyard and port jib halyard would exit on the starboard side. Unfortunately my spin halyards are external. Support your strategy of moving the spin halyard to starboard. Hoisting the spin early on port roundings is facilitated if the halyard is on the high side. Can you install another exit plate and have both exit starboard? You shouldn't have to wait on dropping the mast. I've swapped halyards side to side with the mast up. -- Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 9:54 AM John Heaton via CnC-List wrote: Hi folks - on my C 29 Mk2 the jib halyard comes out on the std side of the mast and the spinnaker on the port side and I want to reverse them to make it easier to "jump" the spinnaker halyard. Anyone else done this - I noted the spin halyard exits the mast higher than the jib halyard, so I will probably do this in the fall when the mast has been dropped? thanks CAN363 Double on the Rocks Toronto Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Navtec Hydraulic backstay adjuster, soon to be free
No. They had everything they needed. Considering the volume and the size of the kind of cylinders they usually deal with, I got the impression that fixing my ‘dinky little cylinder’ was something they could do over lunchtime— especially since the bore was fine. While I might be simplifying it a little, I think they cleaned it up, replaced all the O-rings, tested it for holding pressure and were done. Although hardly an expert on hydraulics, I think the technology has been around a lot longer than Navtec. Good luck, Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 6:10 PM, Riley Anderson wrote: Charlie, that's good to hear. Did you also have to buy the seal kit or did the hydraulic shop have what you need? On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 6:06 PM cenelson via CnC-List wrote: I had mine rebuilt at a local hydraulic shop (lots of farmer implements use hydraulics) about 8 yrs ago for $260. Still no leaks—! Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 5:54 PM, Riley Anderson via CnC-List wrote: Hello all, I'm getting rid of my Navtec backstay adjuster, it needs a rebuild ($620 from Navtec). I put it on eBay for cheap, but I'm only going to leave the listing up for a month. If it doesn't sell in that time, consider it free to any lister who wants it. My guess is shipping should be about $30-40. The model number is IA7-10, pulled it from my 1976 38-ii. Navtec says these are from 1989-1999. Here is the link to the listing if you just can't wait. Photos are on the listing. -- Fair winds and following seas, Charlotte Freeland & Riley AndersonSV Freight TrainMiddletown, CT USAThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu -- Fair winds and following seas, Charlotte Freeland & Riley AndersonSV Freight TrainMiddletown, CT USA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Navtec Hydraulic backstay adjuster, soon to be free
I had mine rebuilt at a local hydraulic shop (lots of farmer implements use hydraulics) about 8 yrs ago for $260. Still no leaks—! Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 5:54 PM, Riley Anderson via CnC-List wrote: Hello all, I'm getting rid of my Navtec backstay adjuster, it needs a rebuild ($620 from Navtec). I put it on eBay for cheap, but I'm only going to leave the listing up for a month. If it doesn't sell in that time, consider it free to any lister who wants it. My guess is shipping should be about $30-40. The model number is IA7-10, pulled it from my 1976 38-ii. Navtec says these are from 1989-1999. Here is the link to the listing if you just can't wait. Photos are on the listing. -- Fair winds and following seas, Charlotte Freeland & Riley AndersonSV Freight TrainMiddletown, CT USAThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List ‘Skid’ refresh
Most of my 1995 C deck was covered with Kiwi Grip about 5 years ago which has held up well and is easily refreshed/redone with additional coats when/where it wears away. There are a few ‘trim’ areas in the cockpit sole and the mostly vertical seats, the aft facing bulkheads on either side of the companionway and ‘hood’ that surrounds the sliding hatch and port light where the original gel coat/paint is pretty ‘tired’—the ‘skid’ portion of the deck (sorry I have problems with double negatives as in ‘non non-skid!) What I am looking for is simple solution to semi-permanently bring most of the new look back. My yard wants to tape the non-skid off (not easy with the Kiwi stuff) and re-paint the skid—which would be more money than I want to spend. I am thinking of some topside paint I could mostly brush on (most areas are pretty narrow to roll on) and improve its looks per the 10 ft test. I might be able to avoid/minimise the taping since minor excursions into the Kiwi Grip would be hard to see. Maybe I should just try a good cleaning followed by compounding/wax/polish. But if this is unlikely to really freshen it up, I don’t want to go down this energy intensive path only to end up painting it anyway.(I could do a small section for a test I suppose.) I am looking for a good solution that I can accomplish in a day or two. I don’t expect it to look like a new paint job—just a reasonable improvement that will not be covered with brush marks or other DIY mistakes that can be seen too easily! Lister suggestions are needed! Thanks, Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2
+1 on all comments on how fly it safely—especially fully hoisting it! On one of my earlier kite disasters, we failed to notice that our hoist was 6-8 feet short of full hoist with my masthead full shouldered kite during a practice run dead downwind. The wind was up, of course, and within 15-20 seconds our bowman scooted rapidly back to the cockpit on our run claiming the bow was going under. When the water was on deck about 1/2 way to the mast on both port and starboard, someone noticed the kite was not fully up. With the fear of sinking rearing its head, a crew sprang to the kite halyard and pulled as if his life depended on it to get the kite fully hoisted. Thereafter of course , Water Phantom corrected its bow down attitude and returned to a surface ship from its brief but scary replication of a submarine beginning to dive. Moral of the story—the horizontal force vector on a kite can and likely will point down if not fully hoisted—never mind the other force vectors possibly whipping it side to side, etc. If this down vector overwhelms those or others from the main sail, keel, rudder, etc. she has no other option but to head ‘below’ and head below she will! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 4:32 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders. It should be fully hoisted. Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential for oscillation and loss of control. While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay. That is, we prefer a slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim. Trimming the chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of oscillation and ultimately a death roll. I'd rather broach than do a death roll! To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker. This chute sounds a wee bit short to me. -- Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote: Bruno, Sounds about right. Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead. Joel On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List wrote: Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group: The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be used as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Rigging replacement
Thanks Andy—they are the one that my local rigger would send my rigging to for
evaluation.
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Friday, March 12, 2021, 10:30 AM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List
wrote:
I had the rig out of my 40 a year before I sold her and reheaded most of the
shrouds. It was fairly easy to take apart and and reassemble and the riggers
gave me good instructions so I wouldn’t screw it up. I did the same with my
Baltic 47 before I launched her for the first time.When you take it apart use a
stainless wheel on a drill to polish up the heads. Look for signs of cracks.
Not all my shrouds had to be reheaded. But my D3s, which bend around the second
spreaders, had to be replaced because reheading the upper attachment point
changed where the fitting would be at the spreaders. On both boats the rod was
more than 20 years old; on the C more than 30.
The people in RI are Rig Pro, and it could be argued that they are the best in
the world.Andy
Andrew Burton26 Beacon HillNewport, RI USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/+401 965-5260
On Mar 12, 2021, at 09:48, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote:
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Charlie,
I had to have Half Magic (83 Landfall 35) surveyed for insurance purposes with
the mast down and a rig inspection. Rod rigging, single spreader. My surveyor
is a former C Landfall 38 owner. He looked at the attachment points at the
mast to make sure they weren’t seized or cracked, checked the fittings at the
spreader and turnbuckles. Passed with flying colors. I also talked with a
rigger friend who echoed your comments about reheading or replacement without
even considering inspection so there’s clearly a difference of opinion with
regards to protocols with rod rigging.
Both Rob Ball and I have looked far and wide for evidence of boats being
dismasted due to rod rigging failure and they are few and far between, usually
involving a roll-over offshore.
>From what I’ve read, the rule of thumb is replacement after 40,000 to 60,000
>miles. At that pace, I’m good for another 50 years or so. Unless my
>insurance company demands replacement, I’ll continue to run what is on the
>boat until my surveyor or I see physical evidence of deterioration. I don’t
>think that’s terribly irresponsible as long as it is getting regular
>inspection.
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
83 Landfall 35
Pandanaram, MA
From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2021 9:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Rigging replacement
Hello listers--
My boat is entering her 26th year (delivered for use in 1995) and except for a
replaced forestay, has its original rod-rigging.
Local riggers, among others, believe that rod rigging should be replaced (or
re-headed?) at about 25 years of use. Since C finally bit the dust about 20
years ago, I suspect
there are many listers whose rigging has or will soon reach this milestone.
For background, I have never and don't have any plans to take Water Phantom
seriously off-shore although I may cruise off-shore between marinas or up and
down the ICW. She is used
almost exclusively for local PHRF racing in the NC sounds/rivers with
occasional trips to Charleston or the Chesapeake.
I plan to have the rigging inspected in place this month--over the years one of
the starboard shrouds seized and it was sent off for repair but otherwise no
issues.
My question is do I need to bite the bullet and re-head or replace all the rod
rigging at this milestone?
Or can I have it seriously inspected, perhaps by the group in RI (forget the
name), and only re-head/replace what they deem questionable.
Or given my use, maybe I should just "...forgetaboutit..."
BTW, my rig is a triple spreader, all rod (except for the forestay) so I
suspect the expense of replacement or re-heading is north of 5 boat bucks, not
to mention the labor to
take it apart and reassemble.
What would the list do?
Thanks,
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
Stus-List Re: Asymmetrical Spinnaker outside jibe
I considered adding the Seldon sprit but my anchor ‘roller’ doesn’t leave enough room for the pole diameter recommended. Was this not a problem on your respective boats? Or did you modify the roller assembly to allow the sprit to fit? Charlie Nelson Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Monday, March 8, 2021, 8:32 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: I did exactly that on a client's boat. Had 2 different projections for the Selden sprit. Don't recall the lengths but one was maximum projection with no penalty. More than that incurred a hit. -- Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 6:40 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Mike's right. I'm learning each PHRF group treats a sprit differently. Chesapeake Bay PHRF allows moving the assym tack forward up to 10% J without penalty to alow anchor rollers to be used. On my boat, a 35.5' long boat with 178" J, that's 17", which seems generous. But I want to install a Selden sprit at 55" which will be no penalty for Long Island PHRF, but suffers -6 seconds for Chesapeake Bay. Each PHRF group is different. The Selden sprit pole fits through a large SS loop mounted on the deck next to the tack fitting and the inboard end mounts onto a folding padeye on deck. I wanted to install a few padeyes on deck to set the pole at different projections to meet the best PHRF rating. But the Chesapeake Bay PHRF penalties are too much. 55" to 60" seems like the sweet spot, so I may just set one padeye at 55" and have fun. FWIW, I just laid up five layers of 1708 fiberglass and West Epoxy onto a thin 4" by 16" strip of G-10 that I'll cut into oval shaped pads to reinforce the deck, spread the downforce load, and raise the padeyes about 3/16". I already cut circular backing plates for underdeck. Headed to the boat tomorrow as temperatures will be 55 to 65 for a few days. Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Bilge pumps
Agree with the 2 pump philosophy with only one caveat from my almost disastrous
experience many years ago which only involved 1 pump.
I made the mistake of having shore power hooked up and bilge pump powered on
when my float switch failed while at my dock. The bilge pump dutifully ran in
response to the failed switch (it failed in the ‘run pump’ position), the
battery sagged, the charger kicked on and ultimately stayed on at its maximum
current.
This evidently happened over a week or more while the boat was unattended.
When I discovered the problem, of course the batteries were dead. As I traced
it, I couldn’t understand why the charger was not on and charging. Closer
inspection found a blown resistor inside the Xantex charger.
Whether by charger design or accident, this blown resistor likely saved my boat
from a fire as the charger overheated trying to keep the batteries charged.
While probably preventable by a more robust on board circuit design, my
takeaway from this event was to NEVER leave shore power/battery charger on
unless I am on board.
As Bill mentioned, better to have a dead battery than the boat at the bottom—or
in my case burned to the water line!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Monday, March 1, 2021, 5:01 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List
wrote:
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I agree with the two pumps, with the primary a smallish diaphragm,can be above
the waterline, (mine was in the head, under the sink)with a hoseand a flat
strainer at the lowest part of the bilge, on an electronic switch.
Then a larger centrifugal pump, maybe you could even run aseparate hose out
where the hand/Whale pumps exit. This also on an electronicswitch. You have to
wipe the lens on the switches occasionally to keep themclean.
I would rather find my battery dead, than my boat on the bottomof the slip.
Bill Coleman
Entrada, Erie, PA
From: David Knecht viaCnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 11:42 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Bilge pumps
Practical Sailor had an article recently about bilge pumpsand I have three
questions.
1. They recommended two electric pumps: a lowercapacity automatic as deep in
bilge as possible and a second higher capacitywired to a switch higher up. I
am unconvinced by the logic. I havehad an automatic pump get stuck on, so it
ran until the battery ran out ofjuice. I worry that will happen more
frequently with a deep automatic inthe part of the bilge that will most
frequently have water and crud. Iwould argue for the opposite setup so I can
pump out incidental rain water etc.at my discretion but the automatic will kick
in when there is high water.
2. On my boat, I have a small floor panel I can removeto access the bilge and
my current pump (Whale super-sub which is the only pumpI found that fits) is
deep in the narrow bilge there. If I were to try toput a second pump in, I
think it would have to be somewhere else which meansunder the flooring and
inaccessible which seems like a bad idea. Thatflooring is a PITA to remove,
since it is screwed down and to remove theflooring adjacent to the small panel,
where a pump would make sense, I have tounbolt and support the table because
the mast runs through it and the tablebolts to the flooring. That takes about
30 min minimum so I don’t thinkthat is a good place for a pump one wants to
access with some ease. Icould put it further back under the rear flooring
which is more easily removed,but it would have to be a pump that sits low to
fit. Have others modifiedthe floor attachment to make access to the space
underneath easier?
3. If one has two pumps, it is OK to tie the outletstogether through a Y valve
with check valves?
David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT
Dr. David Knecht
Professor, Department of Molecularand Cell Biology
University of Connecticut
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
U-3125
Storrs, CT 06269-3125
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to
Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind
Not surprisingly, I got lost in the forest and forgot about the tree!
I went with 155% based on what others use in the Southport, NC area but
slightly heavier weight to survive the average higher breeze there vs. the
upper Neuse river.
Charlie
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Saturday, February 27, 2021, 6:16 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List
wrote:
#yiv0353560275 #yiv0353560275 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}
_filtered {}#yiv0353560275 #yiv0353560275 p.yiv0353560275MsoNormal,
#yiv0353560275 li.yiv0353560275MsoNormal, #yiv0353560275
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You did not tell us what size headsail you went with, that wasthe most
discussed aspect of the whole diatribe!
( I think you mean Nordac?) those are usually pretty robustsails.
Bill Coleman
Entrada, Erie, PA
From: Charlie Nelson viaCnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 3:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind
Just a short note to thanks all who chimed in on my head sailquestion.
The short story is that I decided to go with a 3Di Nordiccomposite sail
(so-called light/medium) that has a maximum AWS wind of ~ 16knots. The light
wind equivalent has a maximum AWS wind of ~ 12 knots and Ialready have a
lightly used light air (maximum AWS of ~ 8 knots) so I opted forthe lt./med
since the light air was covered and the expected coastal winds areabout 2 knots
higher (7 vs. 5.5 knots) than those in the upper Neuse riverwhere I have done
most of my racing to date. I also have an almost new 140%(Hood Vectran) and a
bullet proof 90% from North. Thus I have a reasonable(IMHO) set of upwind sails
for my racer/cruiser for local club racing. I alsohave both a 3/4 oz. masthead
symmetrical kite and a smaller, stronger reachingkite.
I appreciate the comments on changing head sails to meet theconditions,
etc.,--in an ideal world this is the solution. OTOH, in my world,finding enough
KNOWLEDGEABLE crew (6+ depending on wind) to race is almostimpossible for local
regattas and not that easy even for something likeCRW.
So here is how I compromise, to wit:
1). All my head sails are used on a furler. Thus headsail changeson the fly are
not possible even on the rare days that my crew is both numerousand
knowledgeable. All buoy races are done with the headsail that crosses
thestarting line--although it may get changed between races.
2). Most of my racing is now in non-spin. SAFELY handling a masthead kite in
winds > 12 knots with limited crew (number and knowledge) isnot easy and when
the inevitable goes 'awry', people can and do get hurt--oneof my most
experienced crew was slammed to the foredeck by an errant kite guy afew years
ago and was evaluated for a concussion at a local hospital as soon aswe got off
the water. Fortunately he was OK but this is not something I want torepeat.
Note he was my most experienced crew!
3). Since I cannot change head sails on the fly (see 1), I preferto use the
largest headsail I can since I need it for downwind sail area. Ifind it easier
and quicker to reef the main and rarely furl the headsail toreduce sail area
upwind.
4). The bottom is painted yearly and scrubbed/wiped down beforeeach race by a
diver. Currently I use Petit Vivid, a hard ablative and plan totry Odyssey this
year.
5). I usually have 5-6 regular crew, most of whom have been racingwith me for
5-10 years. The only ones that I have lost left for medicalreasons, moved out
of the area or went cruising. Believe me, I know theimportance of good crew as
well as how to keep them on board. Note that this is1-2 shy of the 8
knowledgeable crew I believe are required to race my boat toher potential,
especially in a breeze.
I am sure there are more compromises in my racing efforts but evenwith these
above, I find after ~ 25 years of club racing that I still enjoy thethrill of
the competition, the joy of occasionally passing or even beating acompetitor
and, of course, the agony of analyzing WTF we messed up as we hadback to the
dock for sandwiches and adult beverages!! Even in the latter case,I am
confident that there will always be another race where there is thepotential to
do better! Like a golfer, all it takes is one good shot on thecourse to make
him/her return. For a club racer, all it takes is a well sailed,competitive
race for me to return.
So
Stus-List Deck painting
My deck is mostly covered with non-skid Kiwi-Grip which I had a applied by a local yard at least 5 years ago—likely more like 8-10–and it still is in great shape. OTOH, the non-non skid needs some serious work! However there is so little of it, it’s almost like ‘trim’ and taping it off would be time and money consuming if done by a yard. I am considering having it done by someone without taping all the non-skid off and using a high quality paint, single or 2 part paint and a brush. Is this likely to work for a decent 10 ft look or is it likely to be a disaster? Any recommendations on 1 or 2 part paints, manufacturers, etc. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Broken rod rigging attachment for babystay deck at keel - 37/40+
In benign conditions, I would forgetaboutit! My 36XL had a baby stay which besides being a PITA for tacking was mostly unnecessary for my rig, whose 3 spreaders are not swept aft. For my masthead rig, it’s primary purpose was to reduce/eliminate mast pumping in a seaway since my mast is not a ‘tree-trunk’. I removed it (and the baby stay track) and for my NC Sound and river racing never looked back. Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom PS: The interior rod is still attached to my CB trunk/Keel but I can’t determine how without removing my new cabin sole—hopefully another lister knows how it is attached. up my new sole. . Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:34 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List wrote: Hello all, I have a 1994 37/40+, which of course has rod rigging. We were out sailing yesterday, and I had put on some babystay and backstay tension, but not a tremendous amount. When I got back to the dock, I found, down in the cabin that the rod that is just forward of the mast broke loose from the keel trunk. This is a 6 ft. length of rigging that runs from the underside of the deck to the keel trunk to reinforce the deck at the aft end of the babystay track. The attachment at the keel failed due to rust, but I can't really tell completely how it attached. There is a threaded rod that goes between to keel trunk and the turnbuckle for adjustment. It seems as though it may have been threaded rod welded on to a stainless steel plate that was glassed in place on the top of the trunk. It was the threaded rod that failed where it exited the fiberglass. Has anyone else had this fail? Do you know how the threaded rod was attached? How did you fix it? Finally, presuming I'm not putting on a lot of babystay tension, can I still sail the boat in benign conditions until I can get it fixed? Thanks! Bruce Whitmore 1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis" Madeira Beach, FL (847) 404-5092Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Fuel Polishing System
While YMMV, I found that my attempts at fuel polishing with my ~ 35 gallon tank were a waste of money (when the yard did it) or time, bother and mess when I did it. Unless you clean the gunk out of the tank, no amount of new or old (but polished) fuel will prevent gunk from gumming up your system somewhere—pick-up tube in tank or some downstream filter or separator. Getting rid of the old fuel can be an issue of course unless the yard wants it and will pump it out. In my case, I pumped it into ~7 5 gal jerry jugs and dumped them at the county fuel/oil disposal site. The jugs were about $10 each so I had to invest about $70 in them. Off road diesel is about $2.50/gallon so it cost ~$90 for NEW fuel for a total cost of $160, not counting the fuel cost that I dumped. Polishing may make sense when the amount of fuel is substantial as it might be in power boat diesels or other large diesel engines where the fuel tanks might hold 100’s of gallons. On a recreational sailboat engine, not so much IMHO. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom (~37 gallon tank) Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Thursday, February 4, 2021, 11:30 AM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List wrote: Sounds like a good plan, but I might consider plumbing it with tees and valves so the secondary filter could become primary in case it still clogs at a bad time. --Shawn wrightshawngwri...@gmail.coms/V Callisto, 1974 C 35https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 6:01 AM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List wrote: Hello all, A year or so back, I removed a generator that was installed in the stern locker because it was totally frozen up. When I did, an old small Racor came out with it. I also already have a small 12 volt fuel pump. I am thinking about putting in a tee in the fuel line before the primary Racor, and plumbing in the small Racor and pump with a connection to an unused circuit breaker on my panel. The output would go back to the tank. I could use Racors as small as 3 microns, and thus filter out any water or contaminants using the pump when at the dock or out sailing (we have plenty of solar power) especially when we're out banging through waves and shaking up the contents of the tank. This would serve to ensure the primary Racor doesn't clog. We haven't had any real problems, though this year I got some water in the primary Racor bowl. Are there any downsides to this? Thanks! Bruce Whitmore 1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis" Madeira Beach, FL (847) 404-5092Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: FW: Re: Interior 'walls'
That is an excellent suggestion.
I will give them a call-Rob McLaughlin? was very helpful on past requests for
metal parts.
Plus they are based in Canada so they might know of local sources.
Charlie Nelson
Charlie
Thanks
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Monday, February 1, 2021, 9:13 AM, Rod Stright wrote:
#yiv4457809377 #yiv4457809377 -- _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv4457809377
#yiv4457809377 p.yiv4457809377MsoNormal, #yiv4457809377
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p.yiv4457809377msonormal, #yiv4457809377 li.yiv4457809377msonormal,
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div.yiv4457809377WordSection1 {}#yiv4457809377
Maybe South Shore?
From: cenelson via CnC-List
Sent: February-01-21 10:08 AM
To: Rod Stright ; 'Stus-List'
Cc: cenelson
Subject: Stus-List Re: FW: Re: Interior 'walls'
Thank you.
I was hoping that I might find a source for this material, perhaps from someone
who is familiar with wooden boat construction.
More likely a boat builder, including C, made them in house which is likely
what I will need to do.
Thanks again,
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C 36XL
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Monday, February 1, 2021, 5:30 AM, Rod Stright wrote:
Thanks Charlie,
The only boat I had with a wooden ceiling in it was a Frers 33. It had narrow
strips with beveled edges held in by stainless steel screws which allowed you
to take them out and refinish if required. I tried to attach/enclose a picture
but the site doesn’t seem to allow it to go through.
Rod
From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: January-31-21 11:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: FW: Re: Interior 'walls'
Thanks Rod--you obviously know your nautical terms, as do some others on this
list. Now a few more listers, including myself, know what to call this
'planking'.
With that out of the way, back to draining the swamp! To wit: some of this
'ceiling' in my V berth on my 1995 C 36 XL/kcb has been destroyed by a water
leak at my forward port hull deck joint leak--since repaired.
What I am trying to find is a source of the ceiling to match my original, which
looks to be either ~1/4" teak or plywood with V-grooves routed in on a 1 7/8"
centers. The grooves run longitudinally and I need a piece about 12 inches high
and 24 inches long with the grooves running along the 24" direction. As far as
I can tell without cutting out a piece, this ceiling is screwed into stringers
(behind the 'ceiling') that appear to run longitudinally at the top and bottom
of the ceiling, which on my boat runs under the V-berth cubby storage cabinets
down to the fiberglass beneath the V-berth cushion. The screws are covered by
bungs. I don't know if C manufactured this ceiling material in house or had a
source for it. I do think a lot of their boats had this 'ceiling' on the inside
of their hulls.
I would appreciate any leads on where I might find some of this 'ceiling' with
the grooves already cut.
Alternatively, I may have to take a replacement piece of wood to a local
woodshed and have grooves routed in it or buy a router and some appropriate
wood and have at it myself.
Thanks in advance for any further help--as well as your terminology lesson!
Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom
-Original Message-
From: Rod Stright via CnC-List
To: 'Stus-List'
Cc: Rod Stright
Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 9:30 pm
Subject: Stus-List FW: Re: Interior 'walls'
Hi fellow C 99 owners,
On the inside of the hull the covering applied is properly called a ceiling. I
am from a family of wooden boatbuilders and we don’t like to use terminology
associated with houses on boats but ceiling is defined below from the Glossary
of Nautical terms.
ceiling
Planking attached to the inside of the frames or floors of a wooden hull,
usually to separate the cargo from the hull planking itself. The ceiling has
different names in different places: limber boards, spirketting, quickwork. The
lower part of the ceiling is, confusingly to a landsman, what you are standing
on at the bottom of the hold of a wooden ship
On pleasure boats example Image https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/82612974387656165/
T
Stus-List Re: FW: Re: Interior 'walls'
Thank you.
I was hoping that I might find a source for this material, perhaps from someone
who is familiar with wooden boat construction.
More likely a boat builder, including C, made them in house which is likely
what I will need to do.
Thanks again,
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36XL
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Monday, February 1, 2021, 5:30 AM, Rod Stright wrote:
#yiv0460639607 #yiv0460639607 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered
{}#yiv0460639607 #yiv0460639607 p.yiv0460639607MsoNormal, #yiv0460639607
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div.yiv0460639607WordSection1 {}#yiv0460639607
Thanks Charlie,
The only boat I had with a wooden ceiling in it was a Frers 33. It had narrow
strips with beveled edges held in by stainless steel screws which allowed you
to take them out and refinish if required. I tried to attach/enclose a picture
but the site doesn’t seem to allow it to go through.
Rod
From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: January-31-21 11:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: FW: Re: Interior 'walls'
Thanks Rod--you obviously know your nautical terms, as do some others on this
list. Now a few more listers, including myself, know what to call this
'planking'.
With that out of the way, back to draining the swamp! To wit: some of this
'ceiling' in my V berth on my 1995 C 36 XL/kcb has been destroyed by a water
leak at my forward port hull deck joint leak--since repaired.
What I am trying to find is a source of the ceiling to match my original, which
looks to be either ~1/4" teak or plywood with V-grooves routed in on a 1 7/8"
centers. The grooves run longitudinally and I need a piece about 12 inches high
and 24 inches long with the grooves running along the 24" direction. As far as
I can tell without cutting out a piece, this ceiling is screwed into stringers
(behind the 'ceiling') that appear to run longitudinally at the top and bottom
of the ceiling, which on my boat runs under the V-berth cubby storage cabinets
down to the fiberglass beneath the V-berth cushion. The screws are covered by
bungs. I don't know if C manufactured this ceiling material in house or had a
source for it. I do think a lot of their boats had this 'ceiling' on the inside
of their hulls.
I would appreciate any leads on where I might find some of this 'ceiling' with
the grooves already cut.
Alternatively, I may have to take a replacement piece of wood to a local
woodshed and have grooves routed in it or buy a router and some appropriate
wood and have at it myself.
Thanks in advance for any further help--as well as your terminology lesson!
Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom
-Original Message-
From: Rod Stright via CnC-List
To: 'Stus-List'
Cc: Rod Stright
Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 9:30 pm
Subject: Stus-List FW: Re: Interior 'walls'
Hi fellow C 99 owners,
On the inside of the hull the covering applied is properly called a ceiling. I
am from a family of wooden boatbuilders and we don’t like to use terminology
associated with houses on boats but ceiling is defined below from the Glossary
of Nautical terms.
ceiling
Planking attached to the inside of the frames or floors of a wooden hull,
usually to separate the cargo from the hull planking itself. The ceiling has
different names in different places: limber boards, spirketting, quickwork. The
lower part of the ceiling is, confusingly to a landsman, what you are standing
on at the bottom of the hold of a wooden ship
On pleasure boats example Image https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/82612974387656165/
Tried to include some pictures but they wouldn’t go through on this website.
Rod Stright
C 99
Halifax, NS
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup
INHO, Magic was just slower than Luna Rossa for some reason(s). I also think Spithill was better than Barker in the prestarts—maybe because Magic was slower—it’s complicated. OTOH, Luna’s victory over a slower/handicapped boat and crew in this round robin is unlikely to mean much when they face the Brits! Further, I have little doubt that NZ will repeat and win the cup—I no longer have “...a dog in this fight...”.OTOH, in spite of the close racing I hope to see in the Defender Cup and AC, I prefer someone take it from the Kiwis so there might be a chance that the next edition will be both less expensive to participate in and thus draw more challengers. Hell, we can very close to having only 2 challengers for the oldest competition in sport history! Something has to change and if the Kiwis win, I doubt they will have any incentive to make the changes necessary to get more competitors. FWIW Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 7:31 PM, Graham Collins via CnC-List wrote: I don't think NZ had much choice but to help fix the boat, otherwise the series would have immediately lost 4 to 7 races - a big hit to advertisers. And this running of the AC already looks fairly sad in terms of number of participants. At one point Ken Read was going on about the teams and threw out the number that it costs $100,000,000 to field a team. Crazy... Graham Collins Secret Plans C 35-III #11 On 2021-01-30 3:10 p.m., CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Hi Dwight, I think Italy got faster, during the time America needed to repair their boat plus I think America tweaked some things on their boat that complicated their performance and reversed the progress they had made. It's a shame they didn't win one race. The bigger story that I'm hoping will come out regards the help America got from the Italians and New Zealanders that prevented the sinking and the repairs. New Zealand laminated the big panel for them. What great sportsmanship. Chuck On 01/30/2021 12:59 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start line. They had no confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that showed up in the last race. The foil got stuck up so they had no way to tack. I thought for a moment they might run her into the spectator fleet or go aground on shore. I suppose they might have had capability to drop sails but that would have been a mess too traveling at about 30 kts way outside the lay line and way outside the course line On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: America's Cup News FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back racing but lost four races to Italy. They're out. England and Italy will race each other to decide who will challenge New Zealand. Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters. Ken Read is commentating. Chuck S Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu -- Sent from Gmail Mobile Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?
Yes. In fact, he owned a C 30 XL Gremellen? rigged identically to my 36 XL. I invited his then crew to come and race my new to me 36 soon after I had her delivered to NC. We smoked the local PHRF spinnaker fleet since his crew was both excellent and were racing a boat almost identical to his (his foredeck guy claimed to be a boat Ho and that he new nothing aft of the mast. OTOH, at the last minute on Greg’s call he switched the foredeck from a bear away to a gybe set which would take most of the downwind leg for my crew to manage! Gremellyn was lost when on the hard a storm blew other boats onto to his. Great guy and he knew his racing. BTW, he had just acquired an Audi convertible and on his way to NC on the deserted 2 lane roads from Norfolk to Washington pegged her more than a few times at ~140 mph! Funny story with Greg: Went to his area for a racing seminar—North maybe—and we met for dinner at his favorite Thai? Restaurant—on me since I was actively picking his racing brain! Anyhow he orders some dish and asks for the 911 hot sauce. As a boob from eastern NC, I ask what the hell was that. He says it’s the hottest sauce they have and it’s called 911 for obvious reasons. It arrives (I ordered a mild sauce) and my eyes start watering from the vapors of HIS 911 sauce! Nonetheless, he digs in and soon is crying for water to put the fire out in his mouth! IMHO, he is one of those guys who know so much about racing that they ooze information just listening to him. I think he still races on an Elliot 770? With his daughter as crew or skipper. Nice to know you know him—can be a small world indeed! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 7:37 PM, Dave Godwin wrote: Charlie, This thread has been interesting. I was wondering, since you mentioned Old Dominion, if you ran across Greg Cutter, professor at ODU who was an active member of this list and is a serious racer? He and I have raced together, in the past and recently Double-handed Down the Bay races and have had a good time. We stay in touch. As a data point, I started racing as crew in Cruising One Design boats in the winter of 1994/95 in Annapolis. Never looked back; it was like crack cocaine for me. I crewed every opportunity that I got, all year long, every weekend and any other racing that I could attach myself to. Graduated from crew to owing my own boat in the early 80’s. Interesting story there; I crewed on my friend’s father’s Sparkman & Stevens alumni 60’, Brigadoon against her sister-ship, Running Tide in an AYC Fall Series. I was assigned to the only 3-speed grinder for the jib. It was very heavy air. I probably weighted about 145 lbs at the time. Me and the other grunt were responsible for the first and second gear in-haul, after which we were completely exhausted and a second couple jumped in and finished off the tack in the fine gear. I would stagger back to the high side and wouldn’t even know where we were. I remember looking back to the after-guard and having a revelation: I’d rather be a big frog (my own boat) on a small boat than a small frog in a big pond… I crewed or captained on other non-One Design boats, back in the day on One-tonners and the like but I just never cared for handicap racing. One design was pretty simple: if my competitor was going faster than me, I was doing something wrong. And vice versa. Crewed for a good number of famous names in Annapolis, around the buoys and off-shore. Did that for 35 years. Stopped because I had earned the respect of my peers and the racing was getting to be like the same old black-and-white movie over and over again. The start. The mark roundings. Set the ‘ chute. Take down the ‘chute. The finish. And primarily because given my intensity on the course, I was either going to have an aneurysm or be beaten to death with winch handles by my crew. Probably the latter. When I met my soon-to-be wife, I informed her that sailing/racing was my life. If she wasn’t onboard with that, well fine. She said that she liked sailing (if I had a dollar for all my girlfriends who said that and then tried to get me to take up golf, I’d have a Hinckley…) and that she wanter to learn how to sail. I said that the absolute best way to learn to sail was crew on a race boat. She quickly responded that she wanted to crew for me. I told her that our relationship would have a half-life of two weeks. I put her on my old crew’s race boat and things worked out for the best. So, for me there is not a better way to be able to sail well and comfortably than having racing chops in your quiver. I’m still not really a cruiser. I can’t anchor to save myself. Regards,Dave Godwin1982 C 37 - Ronin1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - Katana On Jan 30, 2021, at 5:06 PM, cenelson via CnC-List wrote: +1 on why race Chuck. All your points are valid and they match my own reasons for doing it—plus a few mor
Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?
+1 on why race Chuck. All your points are valid and they match my own reasons for doing it—plus a few more. I got into sailing late in life and had a terrific mentor who was a champion sailor at Old Dominion in college. So I learned what it took to get a boat to maximize its potential—all in PHRF racing. Plus he found crew. I found two additional reasons why I race: 1) I wanted to earn the respect of the sailors I raced against, most of whom knew a lot more than I about sailing and racing. I thought it would be cool to compete with what I thought were the best sailors, at least locally. 2) I found I enjoyed the competition, the thrill of a good start, catching someone to windward or keeping them behind me downwind, etc. among friends was fun! Of course, I was more often behind, than ahead, blew the start, was Lee bowed and left in the gas of other boats and finished DFL! Back at the dock, we commiserated among the crew but often our competitors would come by and congratulate us about a good move even in defeat! After many years, I am usually mid-fleet but with enough top finishes to make up for the boat costs and troubles and difficulty of finding and keeping crew. I still love being “...in the game...” and as long as I do, I will race (and sail) on! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 1:31 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: Why race? If you consider the benefits of racing; learning to sail better, getting a boat to perform at it's highest efficiency, learning how to trim sails properly, learning to use the tide and currents, learning a few racing rules and signal flags, learning how to develop and manage crew members, building a team, etc. I enjoyed the challenge and personal growth that came with it and I'm grateful for all the people I met along the journey. Racing has a stigma about it that diehard cruisers avoid at all costs. Cost being the most important. Risk of collision and risk of breakage is another. Next is prep time. Next is learning new skills associated with learning the start sequence, flag signals, racing rules, etc. I followed the cautious route learning to race my boat. I crewed on some racing boats and learned the start sequence and how to get round the course and then had some experienced racers coach me aboard my boat on a couple races. It made the greatest difference to have their experience and skills to make the races safe and I would encourage any yachtclub to foster that program of coaching cruisers in a few races. I was lucky and found some really good guys to help me learn. My mentors were soft spoken experts who were firm but never raised their voices, so all my pickup crew members had total respect for their wisdom and we prepped the bottom and I had good sails and we did very well. Why do others race? How did you learn? Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena Md Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole
Not familiar with handcuffs as you refer to them?
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 4:36 AM, Matthew via CnC-List
wrote:
#yiv2822607878 #yiv2822607878 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered
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Yes, using a spin pole as your “sprit” leaves it on the wrong side of the
forestay at the end of the gybe (as with symmetrical chute gybes). Because I
have a roller furling genny, I’m thinking about incorporating my ATN tacker
into an asym chute gybe using a pair of “handcuffs” (like you use when peeling
a chute) to move the tack. I haven’t worked out all the details, but it should
work something like this: starting with the tack attached to the guy, clip the
tack to the ATN tacker then release the guy, gybe the asym chute around the
front using the ATN tacker for your tack, move the pole into the new position,
then attach the tack to the new guy. You wouldn’t want to use the ATN tacker
all the time if you’re racing as you can’t use your genny when using the ATN
tacker.
From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 8:10 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Joel Aronson
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole
Bob
I’ve never used the pole like that. I was thinking you would leave it in place
like a sprit.
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 8:05 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List
wrote:
Joel,
you're missing the part with the spinnaker pole. It also has to be moved to
gybed position.
Bob
On 01/28/2021 7:53 PM Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:
Do an outside gybe. Trim main, ease spin sheet a lot and let it float forward
then bring it over and gybe the main
Joel
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
--
Joel
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Seadeck / Raptor deck eva foam for cockpit
Any thoughts about Kiwi grip?. Relatively cheap, easily applied and tinted by DIYers and it holds up well. Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Monday, January 25, 2021, 7:31 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List wrote: I bought the same stuff off Amazon a few years ago that George referenced above. It was such a nice change and from a grip, comfort, and cooling standpoint. I will say that the grey layer on top is thin and became unbonded to the black substrate below, eventually falling off completely. This may have been from sun/rain exposure over the two years. The black substrate makes up the bulk of the thickness and is the EVA foam I believe. While it is still comfortable and slip resistant, the aesthetics are not ideal. I rubbed off what grey was left and now the aesthetic is a uniform black. I have considered re-applying with a solid color grey or similar and not the faux weathered teak. I can not justify at this time the Raptor Deck expense, but would say that it is a superior product. I do think this budget material would work great down below and would have many benefits. The only caveat being that dust and grit obviously will seek the low point in the profile and so you will probably need a dustbuster handy in lieu of the standard dust pan. KD On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:37 PM George Cone via CnC-List wrote: Bruno, I offer this as a thought, I purchased some of this material as a test, planning to remove it and buy the real expensive stuff, because I was concerned how it would hold up under the stress of my dog. An active retriever. I was amazed how good it has worked and in-fact bought some more to finish the job. Take a look on amazon --CHURERSHINING EVA Teak Decking Sheet for Boat Yacht Marine Floor Carpet Non-Slip and Self-Adhesive Bevel Edge 94.5"x35.4" Thanks, George Cone C 40 From: Bruno Lachance via CnC-List Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 4:26 PM To: 'Stus-List' Cc: Bruno Lachance Subject: Stus-List Seadeck / Raptor deck eva foam for cockpit Hi, The cockpit antiskip is long overdue on our 1987 33-2 and even with really good deck shoes it is now just unsafe. Our plan is to cover the cockpit sole, benches and bridgedeck with 5 mm light grey. The templates are made and both companies (Seadeck and Raptor) do custom work. You send theme the templates and they send you a quote. But before i send them my precious templates, I would like to have a ballpark estimate, anybody on the list that have done the same and could give me a rough estimate. It could be from a C 29 to a let's say 37. I have sailed on boats where the cockpit sole was covered with Raptor deck as antiskid. I loved the feel of it and the grip is really good and more comfy. I would prefer this to paint. I know i could also buy a sheet of the same stuff and cut it myself, but i want it to look professional if the price is not outrageous. Thank you! Bruno Lachance Bécassin, C 33-2 New-Richmond, Qc Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Winch bit
A rigger I know uses a cordless Milwaukee right angle drill to hoist his crew (or for them to hoist him.) This is a serious tool and uses at least a 20V battery—I doubt a 12V drill would work for any serious lift/grind. Back a few years ago it went for ~$400. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C XL/kcb Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Saturday, January 23, 2021, 7:57 PM, Adam Hayden via CnC-List wrote: Have any of you used the winch bit and a cordless drill for either hoisting someone aloft or for raising sails? I came across it in a forum and it seemed like a good idea. Not sure if it is just gimmicky or if it really works?AdamC 36 Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada’s largest network.Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Sprits and Asyms
My local PHRF will not penalize me either if the asym area is not larger than my Sym masthead kite.’—as long as the sprit is < 30” more than the spin pole length IIRC. I don’t know what it will do with my VMG downwind (and neither do they!) but it could make it possible to fly the asym kite with less crew. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Thursday, January 21, 2021, 5:31 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote: Hi Chuck G, No, Ranger guy didn’t take a PRHF hit - which shows one of the many problems with PHRF in my RSA. For his rating with the asym, our scorer and handicapper just used his spinnaker rating as if he was flying a symmetrical. Yes if your son stays out here this summer, there are several good sailing scenes (Chatfield, Cherry Creek, Dillon) he can connect to. Cheers,Randy On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: >From a different Chuck:Randy,Did the Ranger dude take a rating penalty for the >sprit? Also, if my son stays out in Colorado this summer between semesters at >CSU, you’ll have access to an awesome bowman with tons of Asym experience (as >well as conventional). He’ll be looking for a ride for sure..Cheers,Chuck >GilchrestS/V Half MagicLandfall 35 From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 2:29 PM To: Stus-List Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; Randy Stafford Subject: Stus-List Sprits and Asyms Chuck did you get a furler for your asym? A top-down furler? Guy in my club got one (and an asym) for his Ranger 28 last season and immediately kicked my ass with it. Takes him about a minute to furl his upwind sail, unfurl the asym, and start accelerating. He built a homemade bowsprit and, though it looks clunky, it works well enough to beat me downwind :) I looked at the Selden sprits too. I may have to join the arms race in my club. Cheers,Randy On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:12 PM, cenelson via CnC-List wrote: I’d be interested in how your new sprit changes your PHRF rating. I have thought about adding a sprit as well for limited crew racing or cruising and the Seldon looks well engineered. In my case, my anchor roller complicates the matter in terms of fitting the sprit pole but the rating hit is is also an issue. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Thursday, January 21, 2021, 12:46 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: My two cents: Spartite looks like the best solution however it still needs a boot to protect from UVs and the price is too high for me. Similar to PropSpeed, it's a good product but too much money for the benefit offered. I'm not cheap. I just ordered a Selden bow sprit kit. Very expensive but couldn't figure out how to build my own as well engineered. Bought a used Asym for it last year. The sprit will add some fun to downwind sailing on Chesapeake Bay and make it easier to solo. Chuck Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: loose mast wedges
I’d be interested in how your new sprit changes your PHRF rating. I have thought about adding a sprit as well for limited crew racing or cruising and the Seldon looks well engineered. In my case, my anchor roller complicates the matter in terms of fitting the sprit pole but the rating hit is is also an issue. Charlie NelsonWater Phantom Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS On Thursday, January 21, 2021, 12:46 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: My two cents: Spartite looks like the best solution however it still needs a boot to protect from UVs and the price is too high for me. Similar to PropSpeed, it's a good product but too much money for the benefit offered. I'm not cheap. I just ordered a Selden bow sprit kit. Very expensive but couldn't figure out how to build my own as well engineered. Bought a used Asym for it last year. The sprit will add some fun to downwind sailing on Chesapeake Bay and make it easier to solo. Chuck On 01/21/2021 11:33 AM Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote: I don’t know how you can beat the Spar-Tite, having dealt with both. You can form a drip-edge on the top outer portion to eliminate leaks – (I learned this after the fact!) And Yes, if you are not pro-active, they can be difficult to remove. This can be easily determined with a Square, and if your collar is a little bell-shaped towards the bottom, you can use a little Bondo to build up the lower inside portion of the collar so it is slightly V shaped, and then put a little Vaseline on the Collar, (not the mast) so it will slip out, and Bob’s your uncle! Bill Coleman Entrada, Erie, PA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Bottom paint—final!
The bottom paint store.com has it now in 4 colors at ~ $245/gallon with free
shipping. Can’t find any reviews on it on-line yet. Delivery to NC from
someplace (don’t recall site name!) was ~$17/gallon.
Am not plugging it but at the site above it is currently cheaper than Vivid!
FWIW,
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Monday, January 18, 2021, 3:55 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List
wrote:
#yiv6515321968 #yiv6515321968 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered
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I am watching that Pettit Odyssey Triton, there are no review ofit, as it
doesn’t seem to be available yet. But it doesn’t’ look like it willbe cheap.
But I am interested.
Bill Coleman
Entrada, Erie, PA
From: cenelson viaCnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021 8:09 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: cenelson
Subject: Stus-List Bottom paint—final!
Thanks to all who responded to my bottom paint inquiry.Between your responses,
my diver’s thoughts and a little thought of my own, Ihave a plan:
1. I am sticking with a hard ablative, Petite Vivid orOdyssey?
2. Rough up/sand the entire bottom and feather anyedges where the old paint
flaked off completely to provide a good surface fornew paint.
3. Roll on 2 coats with a third coat onleading edges of keel/bow/rudder and
centerboard.
4.The diver wipes down bottom, effectively smoothing theablative paint pretty
well. He does this before almost every race and when inthe water, the paint is
easy to clean and smooth. (When on the hard, thepaint isn’t ‘ablating’ and
would need sanding to remove the roller imprint. Inthe water, the diver does
the smoothing relatively easily.)
I think this will work well and significantly reduce thecost since a lot of
sanding will be eliminated.
Feel free to comment on this plan.
Also any thought on Petit’s new ablative Odsseypaint?
Thanks again,
Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom
Sentfrom the all new Aol app for iOS
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Bottom paint—final!
Thanks to all who responded to my bottom paint inquiry. Between your responses, my diver’s thoughts and a little thought of my own, I have a plan: 1. I am sticking with a hard ablative, Petite Vivid or Odyssey? 2. Rough up/sand the entire bottom and feather any edges where the old paint flaked off completely to provide a good surface for new paint. 3. Roll on 2 coats with a third coat on leading edges of keel/bow/rudder and centerboard.4.The diver wipes down bottom, effectively smoothing the ablative paint pretty well. He does this before almost every race and when in the water, the paint is easy to clean and smooth. (When on the hard, the paint isn’t ‘ablating’ and would need sanding to remove the roller imprint. In the water, the diver does the smoothing relatively easily.) I think this will work well and significantly reduce the cost since a lot of sanding will be eliminated. Feel free to comment on this plan. Also any thought on Petit’s new ablative Odssey paint? Thanks again, Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Bottom painting question
Yes—at least some do. OTOH I did that once, took about 4+ 8 hr days with a
sander above my head and all the protective breathing gear on.
Swore then that I would “...nevahh...”Attempt that again. Same feeling after my
first and last water skiing success—once was enough!!
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
On Friday, January 8, 2021, 8:48 PM, Hoyt, Mike wrote:
#yiv8608729690 #yiv8608729690 -- P
{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv8608729690
does your yard allow owners to sand their own bottoms?
From: cenelson via CnC-List
Sent: January 8, 2021 9:26 PM
To: C List
Cc: cenelson
Subject: Stus-List Bottom painting question My 1995 C 36XL/Kcb is used mainly
for local club racing with occasional forays to CRW. I think her PHRF of 120 is
reasonable and at CRW she finished in the middle of her PHRF class in spinnaker
racing boat for boat with a similarly rated J-30 whose rating was the same
because of a penalty for an oversized pole.
About 2 years ago, I had to strip the bottom to the gel coat since the bottom
paint build-up was excessive. Two coats of barrier coat were applied and then
Petite Black Widow was improperly sprayed on by my yard—they admitted they were
unfamiliar with how much it needed diluted to be applied (afterward), when the
barnacles showed up much sooner than expected, likely a result of too thin a
layer of this paint.
I had them repaint the bottom with Petite Vivid, with which they were familiar,
and they rolled it on with a short nap roller to avoid the extra expense of
tenting, etc. for a spray paint application of the same paint—which they had
done in the past.
I am contemplating going back to a smoother bottom and several local yards have
agreed that the solution is to rough up the current hard ablative Petite Vivid,
apply/roll 2 more coats of the same and then manually sand/burnish the bottom
by sanding these coats smooth, basically sacrificing some of the just applied
paint to ensure a smoother bottom.
I get it, especially since 2 independent yards proposed this, as more
practical/less expensive than my initial thoughts of sanding the current paint
down and then spraying several coats of Vivid.
This work by the yard will cost ~$4-5000.
My question for the list, especially the racers, is how do I maintain this
sanded bottom when I must reapply another coat or 2 of bottom paint next year?
Must I repeat the process (roll on 2 coats and sand smooth) for another $5000?
If so, I am not sure if I should proceed. A ~$2000 per year bottom refresh is
tolerable—a $5000 per year is NOT.
So how do the racing listers keep your boat bottom in ‘racing’ condition year
to year?
Must I ‘bite the bullet’ at $5000 each year or is there an alternative that is
less expensive and thus more reasonable? I will not do it myself—to much work
not to mention the hazard of the paint dust/vapors/etc.
Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom ex
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Bottom painting question
My 1995 C 36XL/Kcb is used mainly for local club racing with occasional forays to CRW. I think her PHRF of 120 is reasonable and at CRW she finished in the middle of her PHRF class in spinnaker racing boat for boat with a similarly rated J-30 whose rating was the same because of a penalty for an oversized pole. About 2 years ago, I had to strip the bottom to the gel coat since the bottom paint build-up was excessive. Two coats of barrier coat were applied and then Petite Black Widow was improperly sprayed on by my yard—they admitted they were unfamiliar with how much it needed diluted to be applied (afterward), when the barnacles showed up much sooner than expected, likely a result of too thin a layer of this paint. I had them repaint the bottom with Petite Vivid, with which they were familiar, and they rolled it on with a short nap roller to avoid the extra expense of tenting, etc. for a spray paint application of the same paint—which they had done in the past. I am contemplating going back to a smoother bottom and several local yards have agreed that the solution is to rough up the current hard ablative Petite Vivid, apply/roll 2 more coats of the same and then manually sand/burnish the bottom by sanding these coats smooth, basically sacrificing some of the just applied paint to ensure a smoother bottom. I get it, especially since 2 independent yards proposed this, as more practical/less expensive than my initial thoughts of sanding the current paint down and then spraying several coats of Vivid. This work by the yard will cost ~$4-5000. My question for the list, especially the racers, is how do I maintain this sanded bottom when I must reapply another coat or 2 of bottom paint next year? Must I repeat the process (roll on 2 coats and sand smooth) for another $5000? If so, I am not sure if I should proceed. A ~$2000 per year bottom refresh is tolerable—a $5000 per year is NOT. So how do the racing listers keep your boat bottom in ‘racing’ condition year to year? Must I ‘bite the bullet’ at $5000 each year or is there an alternative that is less expensive and thus more reasonable? I will not do it myself—to much work not to mention the hazard of the paint dust/vapors/etc. Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom ex Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
