On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 06:31:12 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto: But don't people still try to remember the dead. Or stay alive
longer, extending life, getting plastic surgery. etc?
Sure. But I'm not sure what you're driving at.
You had mentioned the Egyptian
Gilberto: You had mentioned the Egyptian obsession with immortality. I'm
driving at the idea that many human beings have this desire in different
ages.
Well, yeah. But that's merely stating the obvious. I don't see your point.
Gilberto: I'm pretty sure that street churches where long-haired
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:36:04 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto: I'm pretty sure that street churches where long-haired hippies
go around in public openly proclaiming the gospel are alot older than the
kind with pews : )
I totally agree, and I think that's a
Gilberto: I'm not sure if you got it. You mentioned these hippie churches
during the 60's as if they were a new thing. My point (which I certainly
am not the first person to point out) is in certain respects these new
hippies were superficially and in a deeper sense kind of like Jesus'
In a message dated 12/28/2004 7:39:34 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto: I think that if God is really speaking and a
religion is worth its salt, it doesn't need to be replaced by another
in order to progress.
Then there should have been no more
In a message dated 12/28/2004 8:17:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At least
in terms of islamic law,you have living scholars who can arrive at rulings
by understandingthe principles of the Quran and sunnah and understanding
the realitiesof contemporary life.
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:18:12 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/28/2004 8:17:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At least in terms of islamic law,
you have living scholars who can arrive at rulings by understanding
the principles of the
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:56:54 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/23/2005 11:15:44 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But it is possible to set up a society in such a way that keeping the
law is easy and structure legal-police-justice system
:It just has been weird to see
isolated statements of mine, from month-old posts,
Dear Gilberto,
Sorry for the confusion. I was out of town when those were posted. I've been
reading my older email first lately because AOL deletes anything that is
more than a month old if I haven't opened it
In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:28:28 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
2. Over millennia, mankind has become better able to absorb aspects of reality. Gilberto:Sure, in terms of scientific and technical knowledge, ability tocontrol the physical environment. We've gotten
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:12:52 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dave: Different eras and cultures have had different
spiritual needs,
Gilberto:
What different spiritual needs?
Dave:
I'm not sure I'm the person to ask...but then, I did make the statement,
didn't I.
In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:48:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'velooked at the writings of the Bab but the stuff I've seen tends
not toinclude much legislation or commandments.
Dear Gilberto,
You'd probably have to find Nicholas' French
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The main concept which prevented me from accepting it was the near universal understanding of "the seal" among Muslims. For that reason, I gravitated more towards Eckankar (surat shabd yoga), Thelema, Theosophy, Vedanta, and (briefly) Sikhism.
Susan: Of course Mani,
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:50:13 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Gilberto,
You'd probably have to find Nicholas' French translation of the Bayan. Baha'is haven't given a high priority to translating the Bab's laws since they are no longer considered binding.
Hi, Susan,
At 07:23 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
Of course Mani, the founder of the Manichean religion, used that title long
before Muhammad adopted it.
Yes, but at the time (12-13 years old), I had not heard of Manicheanism. I was
turned off by any religion which emphasized what I saw as finality
Hi, Gilberto,
At 10:02 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
But isn't that kind of continuity still very different from what Bahais are
asserting. That's what I was trying to get across earlier.
Yes, it is different. I mentioned it as an example of one of the tendencies I
see in many of the religions (as I
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:44:36 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 03:54 PM 12/30/2004, you wrote:
Ok. I guess I would emphasize that such groups are not saying that God is
silent. And so it is not clear exactly how Bahais are saying that they are
different.
Hi, Gilberto,
At 07:47 AM 12/31/2004, you wrote:
Do you have any insight as to why that might be appealing?
Subjectively, that is a difficult question for me to answer. I have a hard time
understanding why it would *not* be appealing. However, I think that the appeal
of continuity is similar
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:00:35 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
Mark:
However, I have often found that what strikes me as plausible is
greeted with astonishment by many others. To me, Thelema (Crowley) is
plausible.
Gilberto:
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Even
Hi, Gilberto,
At 08:55 AM 12/30/2004, you wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Even with the few thelemites I've
communicated with, I wasn't sure if they were realists when it came to
their own beliefs. Are you saying it is plausible that Crowley really did
have some kind of spiritual
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:28:08 -0600, Mark A. Foster
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
[much deleted]
Gilberto:
I think the picture gets more complex than that. I think in Judaism there
actually may be a date where they say the canon is closed and no more
prophets are coming.
Mark:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:28:39 -0900, Sandra Chamberlain
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gliberto, I wrote: I would agree that the spiritual
attributes of which humans are capable are eternally
appropriate. However, the material (scientific)
capabilities of humanity have advanced to such a
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:04:37 -0800, Patti Goebel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Taking Gilberto's side on this, how do we explain that there is a need for
a new revelation if Islam (given than the writings in the Hadith and Qur'an
are accurate) is already here, and as Gilberto has shown us, there are
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:53:26 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 07:20 AM 12/28/2004, you wrote:
I'm not sure where you started though. I was raised evangelical Christian.
So the idea of People of the Book was already rathet inclusive from my
perspective. But
Hi, Gilberto,
At 10:07 AM 12/29/2004, you wrote:
What is the basis for the acceptance of Islam and Christianity?
With few exceptions, modern
I've read some things about the concept of Noachides in Judaism
With few exceptions, modern Noachides are non-Jewish members of the Lubavicher
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:50:07 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
Sorry, I accidentally sent that message before it was completed.
It's alright.
At 10:07 AM 12/29/2004, you wrote:
What is the basis for the acceptance of Islam and Christianity?
The basis for
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:22:17 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[About the Noachides]
I actually think it makes alot of sense as a way of reading the Bible.
Mark:
As I said before, I think that almost all perspectives, at least the ones
with any longevity, have an internal
So from the Bahai perspective, not only was Muhammad not
the last prophet, but he wasn't even the last manifestation in
the Prophetic Cycle?
Dear Gilberto,
In response to the above comment I would like to offer a
personal observation:
In relating the internment of the Báb's remains on
Gilberto: I think that if God is really speaking and a
religion is worth its salt, it doesn't need to be replaced by
another in order to progress. If the revelation is really
inspired, then morally sensitive people from the particular
religious tradiition can still go back to the revelation
Yes, Sandra, I've seen that passage from the writings. I would just
think that the material aspect of the Law can be dealt with without
converting to a different religoin. At least in terms of islamic law,
you have living scholars who can arrive at rulings by understanding
the principles of the
Yes, Sandra, I've seen that passage from the writings. I would just
think that the material aspect of the Law can be dealt with without
converting to a different religoin. At least in terms of islamic law,
you have living scholars who can arrive at rulings by understanding
the principles of the
Hi, Gilberto,
At 07:20 AM 12/28/2004, you wrote:
I'm not sure where you started though. I was raised evangelical Christian. So
the idea of People of the Book was already rathet inclusive from my
perspective. But at the same time, I didn't necessarily believe that every
new age syncretic
Sandra,
Taking Gilberto's side on this, how do we explain that there is a need for a new revelation if Islam (given than the writings in the Hadith and Qur'an are accurate) is already here, and as Gilberto has shown us, there are many teaching already in Islam that we Baha'is claim to be unique
Dear Gliberto, I wrote: I would agree that the spiritual
attributes of which humans are capable are eternally
appropriate. However, the material (scientific)
capabilities of humanity have advanced to such a degree (and,
continue to do so) that it has become necessary to find
solutions that
"Taking Gilberto's side on this, how do we explain that there is a need for
a new revelation if Islam (given than the writings in the Hadith and Qur'an are
accurate) is already here, and as Gilberto has shown us, there are many teaching
already in Islam that we Baha'is claim to be unique to
I think I got the idea that maybe the Bab wasn't so much into
Perennialism was a passage I read a long time ago:
7 No one hath been or will ever be invested with prophethood other
than Thee, nor hath any sacred Book been or will be revealed unto any
one except Thee. Such is the decree ordained
In a message dated 12/27/2004 9:17:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I mean, I think theBab does seem to be saying that the revelation will be renewed fromtime to time I'm not sure if it says that the the next revelationswill be better/deeper/more spiritual./ etc. Maybe
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:18:12 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/27/2004 9:17:56 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I mean, I think the
Bab does seem to be saying that the revelation will be renewed from
time to time I'm not sure if it says
In a message dated 12/27/2004 10:51:08 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto:Ok, but then the question remains, if the revelation of the Bab wascomplete and enshrines all the others past and future, and if heprovides the full letters of the alphabet, what need is there
Hi, Gilberto,
At 09:17 AM 12/27/2004, you quoted:
7 No one hath been or will ever be invested with prophethood other than Thee,
nor hath any sacred Book been or will be revealed unto any one except Thee.
Such is the decree ordained by Him Who is the All-Encompassing, the Best
Beloved.
Off the
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:27:35 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/27/2004 10:51:08 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto:
Ok, but then the question remains, if the revelation of the Bab was
complete and enshrines all the others past and
In a message dated 12/27/2004 5:18:05 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What did the Bab mean by saying that no one would be invested withprophethood after Thee [Him?] If Bahaullah was going to come shortlyafter him? And if the Bab came with the full alphabet and the
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:32:47 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 05:17 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
And if the Bab came with the full alphabet and the Bayan enshrines all
future revelation does that mean Bahaullah's message was redundant?
I am just speculating.
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:14:40 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto
At 05:53 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
I'm not sure about why Perennialism would preclude that sort of behavior.
At least when I think about it, Perennialism might imply a theoretical and
intellectual
Gilberto,
At 07:20 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
So from the Bahai perspective, not only was Muhammad not the last prophet,
but he wasn't even the last manifestation in the Prophetic Cycle?
It depends on one's terminologies and categories. I would say that *both*
Muhammad and the Bab concluded the
But why would the terminology be so inconsistent?
Peace
Gilberto
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:48:48 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 07:20 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
So from the Bahai perspective, not only was Muhammad not the last prophet,
but he wasn't even the
G:
But why would the terminology be so inconsistent?J:
In my view I think it is because the Bab fulfills two roles: (1) Independent Manifestation and (2) Forerunner of Baha'u'llah. As far as (1) is concerned, He is in the cycle of fulfillment, not the prophetic cycle. As far as (2) is concerned,
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:09:30 -0800 (PST), John Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
G:
But why would the terminology be so inconsistent?
J:
In my view I think it is because the Bab fulfills two roles: (1) Independent
Manifestation and (2) Forerunner of Baha'u'llah. As far as (1) is
G:
But aren't the previous Manifestations supposed to be independentmanifestations too, but they are still considered part of the cycle ofprophethood. no?J:
As always, all these are my own view and I may be wrong. But my understanding is that the BabBaha'u'llahare the only manifestations that
Gilberto,
At 07:47 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean. Those seeming exclusive statements in the Bab's
writings combined with a kind of perennialism (that all religions are fit to
be universal) make sense from a traditionalist perennialism.
But where do you get the
Hi, John,
At 08:01 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
Mark, You called him the point between the cycles... I retract the statement
about the line, because two cycles/circles touch at one point and not at a
line.
Yes. I was referring to the Bab's title, Primal Point (nuqtiy-i-ula).
With regards, Mark
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:32:57 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 07:47 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean. Those seeming exclusive statements in the Bab's
writings combined with a kind of perennialism (that all religions are fit
to be universal)
Hi, Gilberto,
At 09:53 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote:
Maybe I'm misremembering it but the passage I saw recently talked about the
previous revelations being renewed which to me suggested more of a repetitive
process where the revelation is more of a reminder of what came before.
That passage
53 matches
Mail list logo
