[discuss] Re: Another MS XML patent
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 En/La Lars D. Noodén ha escrit, a 30/05/05 16:27: | If this bothers you then write your EU representative or that of the EU | country you have business or project partners in: | http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep6/owa/p_meps2.repartition?ilg=EN | | Otherwise, the situations is likely to get worse. As monopoly rents go | away, look for more things like Microsoft Intellectual Property Ventures | | -Lars | Lars Noodén ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | Software patents harm all Net-based business, write your MEP: | http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep6/owa/p_meps2.repartition?ilg=EN | Hi Lars, Yes, I did that. I wrote to Bernat Joan, my MEP. Here's his reply with my translation: Benvolgut Jonathan, moltes gràcies per la teva observació sobre un dels molts aspectes negatius que tindria el projecte de patents de programari si tira endavant tal i com volen alguns estats i les grans multinacionals. És un tema que ens preocupa i tant nosaltres com sobretot els nostres especialistes al grup Verds/Aliança Lliure Europea hi estan treballant de prop. Confiem en que, almenys del Parlament Europeu, en surti un informe favorable als nostres interessos. Ben cordilament, Bernat Joan i Marí - - Dear Jonathan, many thanks for your observation about one of the many negative effects that the proposed software patent law would have if it goes forward as certain countries and big multinations would have it. This is a subject that concerns us; not only us but more importantly the experts of the Greens/Free Europe Alliance who are having a really close look at this proposed law. I have confidence that, at least in the European Parliament, a document will be published favourable to our interests. Yours sincerely, Bernat Joan i Marí One more reason for rejecting the constitution. Vive la France!!! Jonathan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCnAYN64+f0AXUe+4RAhZDAKCILpXbmaGlpFYqLx0x2RerV7x1ewCfbeNd f91fUetOm5WgtRRTPRBeUn8= =/yVB -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] openoffice 2
Bob Hunter wrote: Hello, you are doing great! Keep going. One thing I may suggest is the following. Get inspired from the mozilla project, and split the monster into individual applications. It will be easier to make progress, port to other platforms (e.g. OSX), and improve their stability and performance. Wether OOo consists of one or several applications is only a technical issue that *per se* does not influence performance, portability or stability. The stability argument usually means something different: a crash of one application does not crash the others - but it does not make OOo applications crash less often! This is BTW the *only* advantage I can see in having separate applications. The portability isn't easier with separate applications: the very fine grained structure of OOo where platform independent code is encapsulated into a few modules while the rest of them is mostly platform agnostic is completely independent of the number of applications built upon these modules. Simply splitting into several apps will not improve performance, on the contrary: starting Calc after Writer will be *slower* for separate applications because you have to do intitializations a second time and the memory footprint of separate applications will be higher when you start more than one module at a time. Improving startup performance needs more module separation *inside*, that's independent from the number of applications (processes) that make up OOo. If you start Writer today you don't load any Calc code - you just load too much code that Writer *might* need later, but doesn't on startup - that's a code modularity problem, not an application modularity problem. It is important that the applications *feel* like separated ones where necessary, and that's what we tried to achieve with OOo2.0. We still can do better, but that's not an issue of having one or several processes. Best regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer - OpenOffice.org Application Framework Project Lead Please reply to the list only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a spam sink. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Patents govern use (was: Another MS XML patent)
But the difference between copyright and patents are that patents govern the *use* or *implementation* of that idea not just dissemination. So that's why with software being governed by copyright, you can have several programs that do the same thing. If software becomes governed by patents instead, then you can't -- even if they were thought of independently. The people behind sw patents in Europe know full well they are in the wrong. That's evident in the great lengths they've taken to try to sneak through such legislation, such as piggy backing it to some fisheries and agricultural decisions. The proposal that is before the EP right now technically isn't legal and should be sent to the cricular file without further discussion. It came to the EP from the EC which had passed it as an A-item (unanimous, non-controvesial) on the agenda. However, only items on which no members object to can be A-items and this was not one of those. Several members objected so it cannot have been an A-item and must be dealt with properly instead. -Lars Lars Nooden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Software patents harm all Net-based business, write your MEP: http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep6/owa/p_meps2.repartition?ilg=EN On Mon, 30 May 2005, Eric Hines wrote: The most critical function of a patent or a copyright is that it allows the owner (I'll call this person, for now) of the thing--the invention, the implementation of an idea, etc--to assert ownership of that thing. With that ownership comes the ability to mandate, for the duration of that ownership, the dissemination of that thing. For instance, without ownership, the GNU license would be impossible, because there would be no owner to assert the requirement for that license to be applied. Notice I have never said anything about owning ideas. In the US, at least, owning ideas is explicitly excluded from the patent/copyright process, however blurred that seems to be getting now. I have an idea for a thing: I write a book that describes that idea, or I build a better keyboard that is an implementation of that idea--the book and the keyboard are mine to control the use of, but the idea remains owned by no one. You can write a different book describing that same idea, and you can build your own better keyboard that implements that same idea, so long as its a different implementation from mine. Eric Hines At 05/30/05 12:43, you wrote: M. Fioretti wrote: Maybe you meant _software_ or _algorithm_ _only_ patents, not all possible patents in every field, didn't you? I used the word idea and idea is precisely what I mean. Ideas are not constrained to software. If I draw a painting about a dragon, I should not be able to prevent you from drawing your own painting about a dragon, even though that's not an algorithm, or software. snip I question the general validity of patents. Suppose you design a better keyboard, so that it's much easier to learn. Should you be granted a monopoly on making keyboards with that design? I don't think so. You are free to disagree. We can just agree to disagree on that. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Government programs provide enough to keep you alive, but they don't offer any hope of living your dreams. --Grim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
On Tue, 31 May 2005 15:38, M. Fioretti wrote: On Mon, May 30, 2005 20:23:13 PM -0400, Daniel Carrera ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Chris BONDE wrote: Now the basic concept of rewarding a person for disclosing their idea to the world instead of keeping it a secret is good (patent). That is neither the intention, nor the effect of patents. As far as I know, it indeed *is*. I (government): 1) make sure that everybody can learn all the details of new technologies by *forcing* inventors to disclose what they did. 2) keep inventors motivated to keep inventing while giving away by granting them a temporary monopoly. The intention of patents was to encourage people to work on developing ideas with the promise that, in return, they would be granted a temporary monopoly. No. Without patents people would have invented and sold anyway, just keeping the secret on how they did stuff. Meaning that their monopoly, without the patent papers which are mandated just to share knowledge as *early* as possible, could have lasted even longer than a patent duration. Patents were a means of breaking the monopoly of the Guilds, and by forcing their hidden knowledge out into the open, it gave various unspeakable forms of politician, eg, the Kings of England, a way of extracting further moneys. It also sped up the diffusion of knowledge, but that was merely a secondary effect. Breaking the Guilds and ensuring they couldn't get their act together was a more major part of it - now you have the patent system in the sworn service of the Guilds again. Marco Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish - Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: OOO20 beta is still much weaker as ms office
Dave, I sincerely hope you are not a fanboy. Although some of your defensive/aggressive terminology suggests that might be. :-P Clearly, Robert is *not* a troll. He *may* be ignorant of some facts (I don't know), or he may see things differently than you. He might even have some valid criticism. But fanboys don't want to hear criticism, valid or not. They protect their opject of adoration from any criticism (even if such criticism could improve it). Criticism bitching Relax, let ideas flow. :-) Dave Barton on 31.05.2005 1:55 wrote: Robert, I sincerely hope you are not a troll. Although some of your emotive terminology suggests that might be. On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 18:57 +0200, Robert Horvat wrote: Hi! I try to use OOo2.0beta but i have much problems with it: What part of BETA do you not understand? CALC 1. Cell value A1=1 set format to date and you get 31.12.99 this is WRONG, right is 1.1. Says who? 2. sometimes you write date ie. 31.12.2004. in command line you do not see this value but number value (37xxx) Cannot reproduce in OOo 1.9.104. I get exactly what I type. 3.select from A1 to B5 Press arrow to right 2x Cursor is now in D5 It should be in C1 No, I would want and expect it to be in D5. 4. Paste special is very dificult to use in ms excel there is shortcut ctrl-e,s and you jump in paste special. in Ooo you have to press ctrl-e,s and press enter I often use shortcut ctrl-e,s,v,enter (paste special value). in Ooo that is impossible and very dificult to find OOo is _NOT_ an M$ Office clone. As has been demonstrated on this list many times, OOo has features M$ Office lacks. BASE unbelivible buggy Can't agree with your term unbelivible (unbelievably?). For something which is still UNDER DEVELOPMENT it does a reasonable job and shows improvements with each developer snapshot build. Lep pozdrav, Robert Horvat, dr.vet.med. +386-41-558-349 http://www.veterina.org http://www.veterina.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you really believe that you have found bugs in OOo and you genuinely want to assist in improving it, then I recommend that you go to Bugzilla (http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/project_issues.html) and report them, rather than bitching to this list. Dave -- Regards, Peter Reaper The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. 2. The document page should be CENTERED on the screen instead of on the left edge, which is visually unbalanced. 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. 5. Context menus in tables should offer many (all) table-specific operations. This could be fine-tuned to adjust to how the table is selected (cell, row,...) 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. 8. Draw doesn't offer a sensible default line color/width and form fill color; and worse, it doesn't remember what I had previously selected (goes back to idiotic defaults). 9. Writer's UI needs to be MUCH more like WordPerfect's UI (context menus, paste-without-formatting, tables handling, tabs handling, indenting paragraph AFTER some text (F7), ...) 10. The installer should NOT install the pre-loader by default. That is just invasive, rude, and shows that the programmer couldn't properly optimize the program. What if EVERY program did that? Our PC's would come to a crawl from the load. There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) -- Regards, Peter Reaper The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Filter selection will not allow me to open my file
Title: Untitled Document Thank you Jonathan for you input, however this spreadsheet was built and saved only in open office. I had no problems opening it prior to this. My company has mandated we use only open office yet all of our computers still run on Windows. Are you saying we will continue to have problems with our spreadsheets if we run on windows? -- Pam Patton Materials Supervisor Glastender Inc. 5400 North Michigan Road Saginaw, Michigan 48604 USA 800.748.0423 Phone: 989.752.4275 ext. 255 Fax: 989.752. www.glastender.com
Re: [discuss] Re: OOO20 beta is still much weaker as ms office
Perhaps someone would like to help Robert convert his problems into bug reports? -Sam On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 14:03 +0200, Peter Reaper wrote: Dave, I sincerely hope you are not a fanboy. Although some of your defensive/aggressive terminology suggests that might be. :-P Clearly, Robert is *not* a troll. He *may* be ignorant of some facts (I don't know), or he may see things differently than you. He might even have some valid criticism. But fanboys don't want to hear criticism, valid or not. They protect their opject of adoration from any criticism (even if such criticism could improve it). Criticism bitching Relax, let ideas flow. :-) Dave Barton on 31.05.2005 1:55 wrote: Robert, I sincerely hope you are not a troll. Although some of your emotive terminology suggests that might be. On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 18:57 +0200, Robert Horvat wrote: Hi! I try to use OOo2.0beta but i have much problems with it: What part of BETA do you not understand? CALC 1. Cell value A1=1 set format to date and you get 31.12.99 this is WRONG, right is 1.1. Says who? 2. sometimes you write date ie. 31.12.2004. in command line you do not see this value but number value (37xxx) Cannot reproduce in OOo 1.9.104. I get exactly what I type. 3.select from A1 to B5 Press arrow to right 2x Cursor is now in D5 It should be in C1 No, I would want and expect it to be in D5. 4. Paste special is very dificult to use in ms excel there is shortcut ctrl-e,s and you jump in paste special. in Ooo you have to press ctrl-e,s and press enter I often use shortcut ctrl-e,s,v,enter (paste special value). in Ooo that is impossible and very dificult to find OOo is _NOT_ an M$ Office clone. As has been demonstrated on this list many times, OOo has features M$ Office lacks. BASE unbelivible buggy Can't agree with your term unbelivible (unbelievably?). For something which is still UNDER DEVELOPMENT it does a reasonable job and shows improvements with each developer snapshot build. Lep pozdrav, Robert Horvat, dr.vet.med. +386-41-558-349 http://www.veterina.org http://www.veterina.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you really believe that you have found bugs in OOo and you genuinely want to assist in improving it, then I recommend that you go to Bugzilla (http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/project_issues.html) and report them, rather than bitching to this list. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Peter- These are good and sincere objections. Perhaps we'd benefit if someone would assist you in submitting them in an RFE? -Sam On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 15:19 +0200, Peter Reaper wrote: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. 2. The document page should be CENTERED on the screen instead of on the left edge, which is visually unbalanced. 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. 5. Context menus in tables should offer many (all) table-specific operations. This could be fine-tuned to adjust to how the table is selected (cell, row,...) 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. 8. Draw doesn't offer a sensible default line color/width and form fill color; and worse, it doesn't remember what I had previously selected (goes back to idiotic defaults). 9. Writer's UI needs to be MUCH more like WordPerfect's UI (context menus, paste-without-formatting, tables handling, tabs handling, indenting paragraph AFTER some text (F7), ...) 10. The installer should NOT install the pre-loader by default. That is just invasive, rude, and shows that the programmer couldn't properly optimize the program. What if EVERY program did that? Our PC's would come to a crawl from the load. There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Peter Reaper wrote: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. Some things are different but to zoom quickly I just hold the control key down and scroll the mouse button. 2. The document page should be CENTERED on the screen instead of on the left edge, which is visually unbalanced. I have this problem when I'm on my laptop and the screen is more 'letterbox' then a regular monitor. That would be nice. 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. This would be personal preference, I'm comfortable with what it does. 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. Submit a feature request for this one, seems like a good idea. 5. Context menus in tables should offer many (all) table-specific operations. This could be fine-tuned to adjust to how the table is selected (cell, row,...) That could be a big list, maybe too cumbersome. 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) I've always been used to double click for a word with extra click for sentence. How do you select a single word then? 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make them customizable in a way similar to the toolbars. That way you can satisfy everyone, those that don't need everything there and those that do. 8. Draw doesn't offer a sensible default line color/width and form fill color; and worse, it doesn't remember what I had previously selected (goes back to idiotic defaults). 9. Writer's UI needs to be MUCH more like WordPerfect's UI (context menus, paste-without-formatting, tables handling, tabs handling, indenting paragraph AFTER some text (F7), ...) Sorry that's a matter of preference as well, I've never used WP. 10. The installer should NOT install the pre-loader by default. That is just invasive, rude, and shows that the programmer couldn't properly optimize the program. What if EVERY program did that? Our PC's would come to a crawl from the load. Lots of programs do that including Office. Sheesh, I just installed software for my new HP printer. Almost 800 MB of crap and it has a quick starter. There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) Everyone has different ways of doing things, getting it right enough to please everyone is impossible. I think they've done an outstanding job on a very difficult task. JB - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OOO20 beta is still much weaker as ms office
Robert Horvat wrote: Hi! I try to use OOo2.0beta but i have much problems with it: CALC 1. Cell value A1=1 set format to date and you get 31.12.99 this is WRONG, right is 1.1. This is one of the options in Tools Options OOo Calc Calculate. Change the Date setting and this will change. 2. sometimes you write date ie. 31.12.2004. in command line you do not see this value but number value (37xxx) I could not repeat. 3.select from A1 to B5 Press arrow to right 2x Cursor is now in D5 It should be in C1 If you look, the cursor goes to the right of the last cell selected, not the first cell. If you select from B5 to A1, you end up in C1 after right arrow X2. I don't see a problem here, just what you are used to. It works the way I expect it to do. Going from the last cell where the selector is. 4. Paste special is very dificult to use in ms excel there is shortcut ctrl-e,s and you jump in paste special. in Ooo you have to press ctrl-e,s and press enter I often use shortcut ctrl-e,s,v,enter (paste special value). in Ooo that is impossible and very dificult to find Don't know and have not worked with it. BASE unbelivible buggy Beta releases are usually buggy. Lep pozdrav, Robert Horvat, dr.vet.med. +386-41-558-349 http://www.veterina.org http://www.veterina.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] OOo is an MS replacement, not a clone (thank god). There are things that will work different and in my opinion, better than Office. I would prefer that OOo worked more like Prefect Office than MS Office but that is life. -- Robin Laing - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Joseph Roth 15:54 2005-05-31: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. Some things are different but to zoom quickly I just hold the control key down and scroll the mouse button. Now, that i did not know. Thanks for posting this! Stupidly this do not show up when searching for zoom in the help! Must see how i can get it to work with my touchpad... Some key combinations for zooming in/out and panning would be nice. /Morgan -- Morgan Olsson, Kivik, Sweden - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Just a couple quick comments Peter Reaper 15:19 2005-05-31: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. I agree, but havent looked hard for alternative. Quy can quickly type the command; for me on Swedish version it is Alt+s,k,b,[Enter] for zoom to page width Put it in a macro if you wish. 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. What is the problem with current CTRL+SHIFT+V ? ( I use 1.94.100) 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) Why don´t you try a recent release before writing about it´s features?? It does what you wish, plus 4 clicks to select paragraph! :) There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. Bullshit. (IMHO i add to be polite...) I taught Staroffice5x and Word97 in class years ago and already then Staroffice had its features, that was when i really decided to use Staroffice and now OOo. I even had pupils installing and making their first document in the first lesson i (after lot of debating) got permission from shool IT department to let them install program into the computers, and after first having learnt MSWord. They just found the commands in a bit different places in the menues but did not care, and were as productive. My girlfriend just made the switch too as shen can much more easily get things as she wish in OOo (OK, mainly because od OOo Draw). OOo(2beta) seem to have *Less* quirks and is more logical than MSWord(97) in general. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) Yes, but not to say 1.1 is bad. /Morgan -- Morgan Olsson, Kivik, Sweden - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Joseph Roth on 31.05.2005 15:54 wrote: Peter Reaper wrote: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. Some things are different but to zoom quickly I just hold the control key down and scroll the mouse button. The vast majority of users will NEVER discover that. 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. This would be personal preference, I'm comfortable with what it does. No, it's a *measurable* decrease in efficiency, and therefore should be fixed. 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. Submit a feature request for this one, seems like a good idea. Done. See my previous post for the link. 5. Context menus in tables should offer many (all) table-specific operations. This could be fine-tuned to adjust to how the table is selected (cell, row,...) That could be a big list, maybe too cumbersome. Not any more cumbersome than going to the menu and digging out the feature you want there (among all the other features *not related* to the context you are currently in). 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) I've always been used to double click for a word with extra click for sentence. How do you select a single word then? My bad. Double-click selects word, tripple-click selects sentence, and quadruple-click selects paragraph. 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make them customizable in a way similar to the toolbars. That way you can satisfy everyone, those that don't need everything there and those that do. That would be bloat. Make sensible defaults and don't try to make OOo into a swiss army knife. At most have a *universal* option: Simple UI and Advanced UI. Offering convoluted options is often a co-out for not thinking hard about UI issues. 9. Writer's UI needs to be MUCH more like WordPerfect's UI (context menus, paste-without-formatting, tables handling, tabs handling, indenting paragraph AFTER some text (F7), ...) Sorry that's a matter of preference as well, I've never used WP. No, it's a matter of measurable performance improvement. You should try WP. ;-) 10. The installer should NOT install the pre-loader by default. That is just invasive, rude, and shows that the programmer couldn't properly optimize the program. What if EVERY program did that? Our PC's would come to a crawl from the load. Lots of programs do that including Office. Sheesh, I just installed software for my new HP printer. Almost 800 MB of crap and it has a quick starter. Just because some other programs do something is no justification at all. It either makes sense on *its own merits* or it doesn't. A pre-loader on-by-default doesn't make sense. BTW: Firefox doesn't have a pre-loader. There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) Everyone has different ways of doing things, getting it right enough to please everyone is impossible. I think they've done an outstanding job on a very difficult task. Let's just all be satisfied with mediocrity then, because it's just a different way of doing things. No, every aspect of OOo must be evaluated on its merits. The *last* resort should be deciding on what most users apparently want, after an objective analysis has failed -- Regards, Peter Reaper The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Sam Hiser on 31.05.2005 15:41 wrote: These are good and sincere objections. Perhaps we'd benefit if someone would assist you in submitting them in an RFE? I don't need help filing bugs; I've filed dozens for Mozilla already. I just don't have the time to file more bugs that will likely end up just sitting there for years - unfixed. It seems that my priorities are not those of the programmers. :-( Is there another someone around here? :-) OK, I've filed/found a few. See below... On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 15:19 +0200, Peter Reaper wrote: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. Make ZOOM Button a Dropdown for Selecting the Zoom Levels http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=50134 2. The document page should be CENTERED on the screen instead of on the left edge, which is visually unbalanced. Center the Document on the Screen (instead aligning it to the Left Edge) http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=50137 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. Optimize the Customize Toolbars Dialog http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=50138 Mouse right-click on a toolbar to customize it http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=33668 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. Need Paste Without Formatting in Context Menu and as Shortcut (Ctrl+Shift+V) http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=50140 OK, I just ran out of time and steam. Hopefully, someone else can file or find some bugs on the remainder of my suggestions (and post the links here). -- Regards, Peter Reaper The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Peter Reaper wrote: ***Snipped*** 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. This would be personal preference, I'm comfortable with what it does. No, it's a *measurable* decrease in efficiency, and therefore should be fixed. Sorry but that makes no sense. How often do you change your toolbar, once? Twice? **Snip** 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make them customizable in a way similar to the toolbars. That way you can satisfy everyone, those that don't need everything there and those that do. That would be bloat. Make sensible defaults and don't try to make OOo into a swiss army knife. At most have a *universal* option: Simple UI and Advanced UI. Offering convoluted options is often a co-out for not thinking hard about UI issues. Yes, but in a possible user field of millions who defines 'sensible defaults'. Now your UI options, in my opinion, would be bloat, I'm asking to customize context menus, you want a whole 'nother UI. 9. Writer's UI needs to be MUCH more like WordPerfect's UI (context menus, paste-without-formatting, tables handling, tabs handling, indenting paragraph AFTER some text (F7), ...) Sorry that's a matter of preference as well, I've never used WP. No, it's a matter of measurable performance improvement. You should try WP. ;-) Lol, I'm not a really heavy user of word processors. A text editor is almost enough for me. *** There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) Everyone has different ways of doing things, getting it right enough to please everyone is impossible. I think they've done an outstanding job on a very difficult task. Let's just all be satisfied with mediocrity then, because it's just a different way of doing things. No, every aspect of OOo must be evaluated on its merits. The *last* resort should be deciding on what most users apparently want, after an objective analysis has failed I've mentioned that I'm satisfied with what they've done cause it easily gets the job done for me, yet you call it mediocrity, so who's right? Chances are, if they incorporate your ideas I can get used to that as well. I'm willing to adjust my work habits for some freedom, how about you? :) JB - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OOO20 beta is still much weaker as ms office
Robin Laing wrote: Robert Horvat wrote: 1. Cell value A1=1 set format to date and you get 31.12.99 this is WRONG, right is 1.1. This is one of the options in Tools Options OOo Calc Calculate. Change the Date setting and this will change. No. The selected date in the options dialog is represented as value 0, not 1. The option 1900-01-01 is for compatibility with the old StarCalc 1.0 application (we can still read files from StarCalc 1.0). The default setting differs from what might be expected because we didn't want to include the bogus day 1900-02-29, which exists in some other spreadsheets, like Excel. For dates after that day, the value representation is the same. For dates before it, our representation is different, but consistent. As Excel doesn't allow negative date values, compatibility issues are limited to January and February of 1900. In return, we get sane semantics for date values (for example, someone writing an add-in doesn't have to worry about this). Niklas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Please don't set follow-ups to newsgroups the OP doesn't subscribe to without giving a reason and without telling the OP *beforehand*. Thanks. G. Roderick Singleton on 31.05.2005 16:25 wrote: On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 15:19 +0200, Peter Reaper wrote: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. It is already. You are looking in the wrong place for the dropdown. I looked around and couldn't find a toolbar button with a dropdown selection. Care to back up you claim with some facts/instructions? 2. The document page should be CENTERED on the screen instead of on the left edge, which is visually unbalanced. This is a user setting. Try Optimal. That only centers the document at *one* fixed zoomlevel (one too big for my needs). It's a poor workaround, at best, and an ingenuous suggestion at worst. If you haven't already registered, do the following: I'm already registered. Thanks anyhow though. 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) It selects a sentence. My mistake. *quadrul* should select a paragraph. (it seems OOo already does this, so nevermind...) :-\ I would also like to ask you to assist in making OOo better. If you can code, there are opportunities to contribute. I (unfortunately) can't code. I can see you are articulate OK, I'm blushing now. You charmer. :-) and can offer you the opportunity to improve the documentation. ( See http://documentation.openoffice.org/ ) I might take a look there. however, my time is very limited and my interest are in the UI and feature-set of OOo. Also, my primary interest is still Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox (I'm taken ;-) ). If you have command of languages other than English, you have the opportunity to translate from English to your language of choice or vice versa. I speak German natively. Got a link? BTW, I think OOo should be more like WordStar as it was better than WordPerfect in many ways. Can you give three specific examples (WS WP) that would benefit a large portion of the user base? -- Regards, Peter Reaper The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Morgan Olsson on 31.05.2005 16:00 wrote: Just a couple quick comments Peter Reaper 15:19 2005-05-31: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. I agree, but havent looked hard for alternative. Quy can quickly type the command; for me on Swedish version it is Alt+s,k,b,[Enter] for zoom to page width That's *more* cumbersome. Put it in a macro if you wish. I don't always need the same zoom level. Are you suggesting I create several (3/5/8) macros and then create buttons that access the macros and then place those buttons on my toolbar? And that is better, how? 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. What is the problem with current CTRL+SHIFT+V ? ( I use 1.94.100) It brings up a dialog, with options users rarely need. The dialog is much less efficient (more clicks); and I would argue that the vast majority of times the user will want to paste the text at the same formatting as the target. 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) Why don´t you try a recent release before writing about it´s features?? It does what you wish, plus 4 clicks to select paragraph! :) You only the third person to point out my mistake. :-[ There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. Bullshit. (IMHO i add to be polite...) I taught Staroffice5x and Word97 in class years ago and already then Staroffice had its features, that was when i really decided to use Staroffice and now OOo. I even had pupils installing and making their first document in the first lesson i (after lot of debating) got permission from shool IT department to let them install program into the computers, and after first having learnt MSWord. They just found the commands in a bit different places in the menues but did not care, and were as productive. Well, just look at OOo's market share compared to Word or WordPerfect. That should give you an indication beyond your personal experience. ;-) My girlfriend just made the switch too as shen can much more easily get things as she wish in OOo (OK, mainly because od OOo Draw). OOo(2beta) seem to have *Less* quirks and is more logical than MSWord(97) in general. I am talking mainly about *Writer*, which is what most users are interested in. BTW: Word97 is ancient. MS is at Word 2002 now, which is drastically improved (but still sucks compared to WordPerfect). PS. Why wasn't your text wrapped while I was composing my reply? I sure hope it *posts* as wrapped. :-\ -- Regards, Peter Reaper The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Joseph Roth on 31.05.2005 17:54 wrote: Peter Reaper wrote: ***Snipped*** 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. This would be personal preference, I'm comfortable with what it does. No, it's a *measurable* decrease in efficiency, and therefore should be fixed. Sorry but that makes no sense. How often do you change your toolbar, once? Twice? So if you do a thousand things once or twice, is it stil lOK to have these tasks be cumbersome and unintuitive? What if you really wanted to do something, and couldn't figure out how, because the complexity is beyond your capabilities. You'd go back to the other program you're more familiar with... 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make them customizable in a way similar to the toolbars. That way you can satisfy everyone, those that don't need everything there and those that do. That would be bloat. Make sensible defaults and don't try to make OOo into a swiss army knife. At most have a *universal* option: Simple UI and Advanced UI. Offering convoluted options is often a co-out for not thinking hard about UI issues. Yes, but in a possible user field of millions who defines 'sensible defaults'. That's what (hopefully competent) *leaders* are for. Now your UI options, in my opinion, would be bloat, What options exactly are you refering to? I'm asking to customize context menus, you want a whole 'nother UI. Not just 'nother, *better*. ;-) There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) Everyone has different ways of doing things, getting it right enough to please everyone is impossible. I think they've done an outstanding job on a very difficult task. Let's just all be satisfied with mediocrity then, because it's just a different way of doing things. No, every aspect of OOo must be evaluated on its merits. The *last* resort should be deciding on what most users apparently want, after an objective analysis has failed I've mentioned that I'm satisfied with what they've done cause it easily gets the job done for me, yet you call it mediocrity, No, I was pointing out that your method of justification justifies and encourages mediocrity. I was not calling OOo mediocre. so who's right? Me, of course. :-P Chances are, if they incorporate your ideas I can get used to that as well. You might even like them. ;-) I'm willing to adjust my work habits for some freedom, how about you? :) You may be seeing things a bit too dramatically or black-white. I use WordPerfect and don't think I'm giving up a significant portion of my freedom. I see what you're saying, but in a differentiated world, there is only so much usability people are willing to give up for a relatively small gain in freedom. (remember, the evil MS Word isn't the only alternative) -- Regards, Peter Reaper The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Thunderbird versus Outlook
Adrian Try wrote: What is your experience with the Thunderbird? I am looking for an alternative to the MS Outlook 2002 which I do not like at all. I am using Windows XP Home. Regards, Gregory Los Angeles I'm a pim fan. For years I've reluctantly used Outlook in Windows because of its ability to synchronise with Pocket PC's. I mainly used Pocket Outlook on the Pocket PC, though, using Outlook mainly as a place to store the pim data. I also used to use Outlook as my primary email program, partly so that it would be synchronised onto my Pocket PC. In Windows there are alternatives. The ancient Ecco Pro is still available, and is in the process of being made open source. EssentialPIM (www.essentialpim.com) is a new promising alternative. Each program has its own advantages. In Linux, the obvious choices would be Evolution and Kontact. But Thunderbird is definitely a worthy contender as an Outlook replacement. Like Outlook, Thunderbird does email, and does it much better in my opinion. It has built in spam filtering, properly threaded email, and very flexible filtering and searching options. Unlike Outlook (but like Outlook Express), it also does newsgroups. Unlike Outlook Express, it allows you to open attachments that don't come from Microsoft. Probably the best place for an address book is with an email program. Thunderbird's is quite good - I like it quite a lot. Searching is very quick. It doesn't have as many fields as Outlook, but how many do you need? Using Thunderbird's tree structure, you can have the same address details in several places (e.g. mailing lists). Updates to the one address update them all. You can also have multiple address books in separate files all accessible at once in the same tree structure. By default, Thunderbird doesn't come with a calendar app, but the Sunbird calendar is excellent (available from the Mozilla site). You can install it either as an addon to Thunderbird (or Firefox or the Mozilla suite), or as a stand alone application. It has all the usual features, and can synchronise with an online calendar. For quite some time you have been able to use the Mozilla suite's address book as a data source for OpenOffice.org. I'm glad to see that the 2.0 beta now does the same for the Thunderbird address book. I'd like to see more cross functionality - that would require a cooperative effort. Outlook interfaces quite well with MS Word. In a previous job, I was able to use the Outlook address book as a starting point as a letter to be created in Word, or use the Outlook address book as a data source for a mailmerge in Word. You can even use Word as a source of email mailmerges for that are sent out back through Outlook. That's quite handy. Now most of that functionality is available in the Thunderbird/OpenOffice.org combination. I'm not aware of a way of using Thunderbird as a _starting point_ for a single letter in OOo (yet), but I love being able to view the data sources from any OOo program by pressing F4. I'm only just starting to experiment with this functionality, but I've found I can drag a single field into my document, a whole record (which brings up a wizard for how to insert the data), and even drag the entire table into a word document (which brings up a different wizard). All of this looks very promising. It is also possible to use OOo for bulk mail drops of HTML formatted emails. In short, it now seems possible to do most of what I was using the MS Office suite for with a Thunderbird OOo combination. I would be very interested to hear of other people's approaches to integrating pims with OpenOffice.org. I'm sure that macros could be created to add even more functionality. Adrian Gold Coast Queensland Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, i was reading your post with interest, this is something i took the time to research as well some time back. One thing you need to be aware of when switching (if you are going to) to thunderbird. There is NO FACILITY for export of the email. There is an IMPORT feature, but NOTHING for exporting. SO this means that wehne you switch over and begi using thunderbird, even for a trial, you have no way of getting your email bacj out of it. What i ended up doing is running outlook and thunderbird in tandem for a while, just so i still had comlete access to my mail folders. Eithe that or you need to setup your email accounts as IMAP. Second, you can install a calendar into thnderbird as an extension. It works quite well. Third, thunderbird has no real support for signatures. this is the only real problem that I have with thunderbird. Respectfully, Deric Stowell
Re: [discuss] OOO20 beta is still much weaker as ms office
Niklas Nebel wrote: Robin Laing wrote: Robert Horvat wrote: 1. Cell value A1=1 set format to date and you get 31.12.99 this is WRONG, right is 1.1. This is one of the options in Tools Options OOo Calc Calculate. Change the Date setting and this will change. No. The selected date in the options dialog is represented as value 0, not 1. The option 1900-01-01 is for compatibility with the old StarCalc 1.0 application (we can still read files from StarCalc 1.0). The default setting differs from what might be expected because we didn't want to include the bogus day 1900-02-29, which exists in some other spreadsheets, like Excel. For dates after that day, the value representation is the same. For dates before it, our representation is different, but consistent. As Excel doesn't allow negative date values, compatibility issues are limited to January and February of 1900. In return, we get sane semantics for date values (for example, someone writing an add-in doesn't have to worry about this). Niklas Nice description as to why the date option is changable. I made my post showing that the 1 in cell A1 will change as the date option is changed. At least it did for me. :) If Date is set to 12/30/1899, cell A1 displays 12/31/1899. If Date is set to 01/01/1900, cell A1 displays 01/02/1900. If Date is set to 01/01/1904, cell A1 displays 01/02/1904. Now I did come across a problem with having this setting. If I enter a date into a cell and then change this date, my dates are all changed to represent this change. At least the data is saved with the document so it isn't a major problem. -- Robin Laing - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Peter Reaper 18:22 2005-05-31: To: discuss@openoffice.org Subject: [discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice Morgan Olsson on 31.05.2005 16:00 wrote: Quy can quickly type the command; for me on Swedish version it is Alt+s,k,b,[Enter] for zoom to page width That's *more* cumbersome. It depends om what how your habits are. Takes time to reach for a mouse. Put it in a macro if you wish. I don't always need the same zoom level. Are you suggesting I create several (3/5/8) macros and then create buttons that access the macros and then place those buttons on my toolbar? Again, i prefer keyboard. Made lots of macros with logical hierarchy for a drawing program once upon a time, and that really was quick. You only the third person to point out my mistake. :-[ When i answered your mail i had not recieved other answers. Well, just look at OOo's market share compared to Word or WordPerfect. That should give you an indication beyond your personal experience. ;-) All persons except one i introduced OOo to have switced. How many have you switched from OOo to Word/Wordperfect/whatever? I am talking mainly about *Writer*, which is what most users are interested in. It appears, when introducing them to Draw, some use it insted of Word, if they before was making posters, cards, signs whatever in Word (some really do that in word...) BTW: Word97 is ancient. MS is at Word 2002 now, which is drastically improved (but still sucks compared to WordPerfect). PS. Why wasn't your text wrapped while I was composing my reply? Because i have no way of telling everybodys mail readers line lengths and character widths and make everyone special mails cut special places. Plus, deep nested replays made with diffferently broken lines which make a mess. If line breaking is used some mail programmay break a line, and when that s replied to extra identation makes that line longer and it happens it is broken again making a single word line between longer lines - ugly. It may also intriduce *errors* in the information where ASCII-art is used! (often used in electronics list i participate) Different mail readers handles this different ways. I sure hope it *posts* as wrapped. :-\ Fortuately it now wraps as every reader wants, clearly readable even in narrow windows. :) (if you have a working mail reader) PS You really need to learn different people have different needs! DS /Morgan -- Morgan Olsson, Kivik, Sweden - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: Filter selection will not allow me to open my file
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 En/La Pam Patton ha escrit, a 31/05/05 15:34: | Thank you Jonathan for you input, however this spreadsheet was built and | saved only in open office. I had no problems opening it prior to this. | My company has mandated we use only open office yet all of our computers | still run on Windows. Are you saying we will continue to have problems | with our spreadsheets if we run on windows? | -- | | *Pam Patton | */Materials Supervisor/ | | | *Glastender Inc.* | 5400 North Michigan Road | Saginaw, Michigan 48604 USA | 800.748.0423 | Phone: 989.752.4275 ext. 255 | Fax: 989.752. | www.glastender.com http://www.glastender.com | Hi Pam, I mentioned that because I was wondering about the possibility of a virus. I don't want to rant on against Windows but I'm tempted to say you will continue to have problems with everything you run on windows. I resist that temption and will not say it. Seriously, have your tried saving spreadsheets since this incident. The file you sent out clearly was corrupted. In such a state OO couldn't possibly load it. You can't really blame OO until you can repeat the experience (I mean saving a spreadsheet that is corrupted by the act of saving it). I don't recall what version of OO you're running but the standard recommendation is make sure you're running that latest version (and try 1.9.104 unless there are compelling reasons not to). Cheers, Jonathan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCnJiT64+f0AXUe+4RAsiKAJ91Sr/MFqJ4tTqpYXwDohwSwX+L1wCfRL0v URcIlK416ezQVUDUpoRswk4= =vF1t -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Re: Styles: Another consideration
Alexandro Colorado wrote: Isn't there an option to auto hide, I think it is F4 or F11. You can't really use the stylist when it is hidden. F11 does show/hide the stylist, but it is a pain to keep hitting it. What I miss is the option to roll up the stylist window to the title bar only. -- Shoshannah Forbes http://www.xslf.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Thunderbird versus Outlook
Le mardi 31 mai 2005 09:22 -0700, Deric Stowell a crit : One thing you need to be aware of when switching (if you are going to) to thunderbird. There is NO FACILITY for export of the email. There is an IMPORT feature, but NOTHING for exporting. Last time I looked moz and thunderbird used the standard mailbox format that is groked by scores of utilities. (now this is the old unix standard format and everyone and his mother has been moving to maildir for quite a long time, but the no facility part is plain false) Of course it does you little good if you chose to use an operating system where all applications use a private binary format and are engineered to be unable to parse common ones. But that's not a thunderbird limitation. And unless you have a very good backup policy you're better of with imap anyway. -- Nicolas Mailhot
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Joseph Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What a joke the patent office is. I think I'll try for a patent that covers when some object strikes another object causing signals to be sent down a wire that produces an object on a screen. Ha! then I'll own the keyboard! Pay up suckers!! you should first go and check out the existing patents on keyboards, and then check out the specific ones for mobile devices... esp. teh ones by 'research in motion'. JB Sander .sigless ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Joseph Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if it cost money to apply for patents? yes, of course What's frustrating is I've look at a couple of articles regarding this and the general stance of the patent office is let the courts decide. Total B.S. its their job to review the patents for clear innovation, not to hand them out for ever 'different' idea that comes out. What a bunch of morons. uhh... please get a bit more fuller view of the situation before ranting, ok? JB Sander .sigless ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Re: Thunderbird versus Outlook
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 En/La Deric Stowell ha escrit, a 31/05/05 18:22: | Adrian Try wrote: | | What is your experience with the Thunderbird? | I am looking for an alternative to the MS Outlook 2002 which I do | not like at all. I am using Windows XP Home. | Regards, | Gregory | Los Angeles | | | | I'm a pim fan. For years I've reluctantly used Outlook in Windows | because of its ability to synchronise with Pocket PC's. I mainly used | Pocket Outlook on the Pocket PC, though, using Outlook mainly as a | place to store the pim data. I also used to use Outlook as my primary | email program, partly so that it would be synchronised onto my Pocket | PC. | | In Windows there are alternatives. The ancient Ecco Pro is still | available, and is in the process of being made open source. | EssentialPIM (www.essentialpim.com) is a new promising alternative. | Each program has its own advantages. In Linux, the obvious choices | would be Evolution and Kontact. | | But Thunderbird is definitely a worthy contender as an Outlook | replacement. | | Like Outlook, Thunderbird does email, and does it much better in my | opinion. It has built in spam filtering, properly threaded email, and | very flexible filtering and searching options. Unlike Outlook (but | like Outlook Express), it also does newsgroups. Unlike Outlook | Express, it allows you to open attachments that don't come from | Microsoft. | | Probably the best place for an address book is with an email program. | Thunderbird's is quite good - I like it quite a lot. Searching is | very quick. It doesn't have as many fields as Outlook, but how many | do you need? Using Thunderbird's tree structure, you can have the | same address details in several places (e.g. mailing lists). Updates | to the one address update them all. You can also have multiple | address books in separate files all accessible at once in the same | tree structure. | | By default, Thunderbird doesn't come with a calendar app, but the | Sunbird calendar is excellent (available from the Mozilla site). You | can install it either as an addon to Thunderbird (or Firefox or the | Mozilla suite), or as a stand alone application. It has all the usual | features, and can synchronise with an online calendar. | | For quite some time you have been able to use the Mozilla suite's | address book as a data source for OpenOffice.org. I'm glad to see | that the 2.0 beta now does the same for the Thunderbird address book. | I'd like to see more cross functionality - that would require a | cooperative effort. | | Outlook interfaces quite well with MS Word. In a previous job, I was | able to use the Outlook address book as a starting point as a letter | to be created in Word, or use the Outlook address book as a data | source for a mailmerge in Word. You can even use Word as a source of | email mailmerges for that are sent out back through Outlook. That's | quite handy. Now most of that functionality is available in the | Thunderbird/OpenOffice.org combination. | | I'm not aware of a way of using Thunderbird as a _starting point_ for | a single letter in OOo (yet), but I love being able to view the data | sources from any OOo program by pressing F4. I'm only just starting | to experiment with this functionality, but I've found I can drag a | single field into my document, a whole record (which brings up a | wizard for how to insert the data), and even drag the entire table | into a word document (which brings up a different wizard). All of | this looks very promising. | | It is also possible to use OOo for bulk mail drops of HTML formatted | emails. In short, it now seems possible to do most of what I was using | the MS Office suite for with a Thunderbird OOo combination. | | I would be very interested to hear of other people's approaches to | integrating pims with OpenOffice.org. I'm sure that macros could be | created to add even more functionality. | | Adrian | Gold Coast | Queensland | Send instant messages to your online friends | http://au.messenger.yahoo.com | | - | To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | Hello, i was reading your post with interest, this is something i took | the time to research as well some time back. | One thing you need to be aware of when switching (if you are going to) | to thunderbird. There is NO FACILITY for export of the email. There is | an IMPORT feature, but NOTHING for exporting. SO this means that wehne | you switch over and begi using thunderbird, even for a trial, you have | no way of getting your email bacj out of it. What i ended up doing is | running outlook and thunderbird in tandem for a while, just so i still | had comlete access to my mail folders. Eithe that or you need to setup | your email accounts as IMAP. | NO FACILITY for export of the email? Have a look here,
Re: [discuss] Re: Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
Peter Reaper wrote: Joseph Roth on 31.05.2005 17:54 wrote: Peter Reaper wrote: ***Snipped*** 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. This would be personal preference, I'm comfortable with what it does. No, it's a *measurable* decrease in efficiency, and therefore should be fixed. Sorry but that makes no sense. How often do you change your toolbar, once? Twice? So if you do a thousand things once or twice, is it stil lOK to have these tasks be cumbersome and unintuitive? What if you really wanted to do something, and couldn't figure out how, because the complexity is beyond your capabilities. You'd go back to the other program you're more familiar with... Now let's be fair here. We're talking about toolbars and how their handled not everything else that I might have to do once or twice in my life. I have customized the toolbars and can get what I want up there and remove what I want quickly and easily. If I don't want it up I can either I click and drag if off or remove it by highlighting and clicking the 'remove' button from the customize window that pops up. There is nothing cumbersome or unintuitive about the 'add' and 'remove' buttons 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make them customizable in a way similar to the toolbars. That way you can satisfy everyone, those that don't need everything there and those that do. That would be bloat. Make sensible defaults and don't try to make OOo into a swiss army knife. At most have a *universal* option: Simple UI and Advanced UI. Offering convoluted options is often a co-out for not thinking hard about UI issues. Yes, but in a possible user field of millions who defines 'sensible defaults'. That's what (hopefully competent) *leaders* are for. Yes but what if they don't choose your way? Now your UI options, in my opinion, would be bloat, What options exactly are you refering to? The 'Advanced' or 'Simple' UI options you mentioned above. I'm asking to customize context menus, you want a whole 'nother UI. Not just 'nother, *better*. ;-) Lol, we all want that. Let's just all be satisfied with mediocrity then, because it's just a different way of doing things. No, every aspect of OOo must be evaluated on its merits. The *last* resort should be deciding on what most users apparently want, after an objective analysis has failed I've mentioned that I'm satisfied with what they've done cause it easily gets the job done for me, yet you call it mediocrity, No, I was pointing out that your method of justification justifies and encourages mediocrity. I was not calling OOo mediocre. Ouch, just because someone is satisfied with a product doesn't mean they settle for mediocrity or encourage it. There are some things worth changing and then there are others that aren't. I have said I don't use it constantly but when I do use it I can get done what I want without wasting alot of time. so who's right? Me, of course. :-P Lol, How'd I know you were going to say that. JB - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Eric Hines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05/30/05 10:57, you wrote: Eric Hines wrote: Actually, the concept of patents and copyrights is a good one I'd agree about copyrights, but not patents. I think that getting a monopoly on an IDEA is ridiculous. Patent monopoly rights are very similar to copyright monopoly rights--just copyright rights are not actually monopoly rights, not even in the US and certainly not elsewhere. Patent roihgts are not really monopoly rights either. Specificly, they don't allow you to make or own anything, they merely allow you to prohibit others from doing so. need some (not so minor) tweaks: shorter lifetime for the monopoly (at least in the US, this needs to be applied to copyrights, too); mandatory licensing, similar to copyright fair use requirements. Sander .sigless ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read this patent and I think it covers every conceivable method of communication between computers done by applications, connected by any means. If this patent is enfoceable, Microsoft would own the methods of communicating on any form of communication means applications could communicate with each other. Claim 1 defines this. uh, no, not really. please read some more patents and get an understanding on how what is written in the patent application messhes together to form the patent. The USPTO does not enforce patents and patents are worthless until they stand up to a challenge in court. Nonsense. Most patents, including ones on which millions of dollars are paid for licences every year never get challenged in court. This patent looks to be largely unenforceable. Who are they going to take to court? Everybody on the internet or a network who is running applications that communicate with each other? whoever violates in their opinion the things that patent really is about. Yes, the USPTO has really show its intelligence on this one. Alex Janssen Sander .sigless ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: M. Fioretti wrote: Maybe you meant _software_ or _algorithm_ _only_ patents, not all possible patents in every field, didn't you? I used the word idea and idea is precisely what I mean. Ideas are not constrained to software. If I draw a painting about a dragon, I should not be able to prevent you from drawing your own painting about a dragon, even though that's not an algorithm, or software. no problem with patents or copyrights here Patents were born as monopolies over real _inventions_, not ideas. You could patent a physical, working prototype of bulb lamps or antigravity engines, If you invent a new light bulb or an antigravity engine I should be able to use the ideas behind them to make my own bulb and antigravity engine. I can accept a copyright-style protection for your actual work. If you take a beautiful photograph of half-dome I understand if you don't want me to make copies of it. But I can still go to half-dome myself and take my own photograph. again, no problem with patents or copyrights Today the concept is wildly and frequently abused, no doubt, but that's no reason to negate its validity, when applied properly, is it? I question the general validity of patents. Suppose you design a better keyboard, so that it's much easier to learn. Should you be granted a monopoly on making keyboards with that design? I don't think so. You are free to disagree. We can just agree to disagree on that. Why shouldn't you be able to patent it? After all, its rather likely that somebody else can come up with a much better design for a keyboard in time. Cheers, Daniel. Sander .sigless ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel, All I was pointing out was that MS didn't even do what you suggested. You said since all ideas are based on relatively small modifications of old ones and that is true. They did not invent anything, although there patent would lead you to believe otherwise. *grin* So please englighten us, what about the patent is all that old? /me hates defending MS ... Cheers back at you, Alex Sander .sigless ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Re: Another MS XML patent
--- Jonathan Kaye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: observations of many who have commented so far. What I don't understand is that surely there is published work on XML along with conversions issues, isn't there? If so, then none of that stuff can be patent protected. A less is, if you're working on stuff that you want to share with the world, publish publish publish. There more you publish the harder life is for patent attorneys. Yes, well, you see the problems are that most of the people raising hell about the patent haven't read it, never mind trying to understand it. How many people really do - or for that matter, did before or after the patent - object mappings based on a schema and an annoted source code file? And for that matter - why would one want to do that anyways? cheers, Jonathan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCm1yM64+f0AXUe+4RAq0IAKCW/SQqzhrJesL1N0UDgMmItpAKpQCgojHL 9/uYoI16nhWOmWfTwEW8NiM= =zNL5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Sander .sigless ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, very large particle accelerators are a lot more expensive than cars and microprocessors and they don't use the restrictive model (some new fuels are cheaper, others aren't). They still grow progress in incremental steps. It's also interesting to note that new fules, cars and microprocessors also don't have the secretive model you described, But they do. Have you checked out the processor architecure and VLSI process related patents lately? there is a very large set of them and it keeps growing. and this lack of secrecy or monopoly has been the source of inmsense growth in new fuels, cars and microprocessors. This has been the case Wrong. for as long as there have been projects that require high expenditures (several hundred years, beginning with large telescopes for astronomy). And they have all been done without secrecy or monopoly, and they have all grown inmensely because of the lack of secrecy and monopoly. yes, but how manyof these have been done with private funding that has been required to return a profit? Sander .sigless ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: x86 processor, solar cells, fusion technology, cars, fuel cells. But Daniel, all of these are positively *BURIED* in patents. The architecture of a new microprocessor can be drawn on a piece of paper, The issue is cost. That drawing (which would not fit on any piece of paper I know of) is very expensive to do. The point is not whether you need a huge facility to design a microprocessor, but whether there is a heavy capital investment before you get any money back. There is - which is (among other things) why there is a large amount of patents relating to this. Cheers, Daniel. Sander .sigless ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 15:19 +0200, Peter Reaper wrote: Some things that still bug me about OpenOffice: 1. The page ZOOM toolbar button needs to be a dropdown selection, instead of the more cumbersome separate dialog window. There is a method for this - you simply right-click on the zoom info in the status bar and get a list of the zooms from which to choose. 2. The document page should be CENTERED on the screen instead of on the left edge, which is visually unbalanced. This is not an issue for most people who are use to Left-to-Right text, but could be a good option for Right-to-Left text users. I suggest you put in a Request for Enhancement (RFE) and see how the votes go. 3. It is too cumbersome to add toolbar buttons that are not in the standard set. The user should be able to just select a category on the left (which BTW should mirror the MENU items) and then on the right have a list of ALL functions in that category which he can drag to the toolbar. Ummm... This is how it is done? There is a list of categories which contain the icons and you drag them over to the menubar set on the right. How are you trying to do this? 4. Need shortcut: CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste without formatting. This can be done in the new version for 2.0. 5. Context menus in tables should offer many (all) table-specific operations. This could be fine-tuned to adjust to how the table is selected (cell, row,...) They do. Which ones are you missing? 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) I think it is close. I believe double click will select the word and a triple click the paragraph. 7. Context menus need to be much more powerful (more items) and CONTEXTUAL. Examples? 8. Draw doesn't offer a sensible default line color/width and form fill color; and worse, it doesn't remember what I had previously selected (goes back to idiotic defaults). Have you define these in your default template? 9. Writer's UI needs to be MUCH more like WordPerfect's UI (context menus, paste-without-formatting, tables handling, tabs handling, indenting paragraph AFTER some text (F7), ...) Most of these you have mentioned previously right? The others you mentioned can all be done using styles. 10. The installer should NOT install the pre-loader by default. That is just invasive, rude, and shows that the programmer couldn't properly optimize the program. What if EVERY program did that? Our PC's would come to a crawl from the load. Well actually, a lot of them do. MS Windows does a lot of preloading in its startup to allow MS Office to start more quickly when used. There's more, but you can see that all this hype about OOo being nearly as good as Word or even WordPerfect is just that: hype and wishful thinking. OOo 2.0 beta is a HUGE improvement over OOo 1.1.x :-) And seems to cover most of the areas that were a problem for you. Are there still areas that are an issue? Are you looking at making OOo and exact replica of WordPerfect? Regards Jonathon -- OOo Tips (RSS) - http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au/tips.rss OOo Knowledgebase - http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au/ Cybersite Consulting - http://www.cybersite.com.au/ Training4Linux - http://www.training4linux.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [discuss] Please put actual filename in header bar
Ah! Thanks for the tip. It works great (after you save the file). (Contentious? Well, I like the filename for documents, so I'm happy.) Andrew Volk -Original Message- From: Peter Kupfer OOo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:25 PM To: discuss@openoffice.org Cc: Volk, Andrew M Subject: Re: [discuss] Please put actual filename in header bar Volk, Andrew M wrote: I am writing to suggest that the filename of the file being edited in Writer should be in the header line (or somewhere in the frame). I am writing documents which are going through a lot of edits between me and a collaborator on the Web. To keep the versions straight, we are including the date of the edit in the filename. Unfortunately, the name displayed on-screen is the name in Properties which want to be the same for all versions. It is a nuisance to have to edit both the Properties name and the filename. It is important to know which file is being edited when you have more than one version open at the same time. Andrew Volk This is a very contentious issue. In OOo 1.1.x the filename is displayed unless the document has title, then the title is displayed, so the user has a choice and everyone can be happy. In OOo 2.0 only the file name will display, so 1/2 of the population will be happy. Those of use that edit web pages in OOo now get to look at underscores in our title bar. YEAH! (That is sarcasm. :( ). HTH, -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] about Build 1.9.m104 issue
To whom concerned, Greetings, I find that Build 1.9.m104 's Calc can't operate LOG function , it only can operate Ln function. Best Regards, Alexander Chen
Re: [discuss] Suggestion
Thank you for the information. On 5/30/05, Peter Kupfer OOo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wheat Wheaty wrote: Simple, HTML + PHP editing program would be great to add to the great 5 suite of openoffice! Thank you. While I don't believe they are open source, they are free. I use: http://www.mpsoftware.dk/htmlgate.php -- for HTML and http://www.mpsoftware.dk/phpdesigner.php -- for php Although, both can do both, and the php is a little more sophisticated. I would the php program exclusively, but the HTML program has HTML Tidy integrated real nice. Another good HTML program, although less user friendly and more techie friendly is Arachnophilia http://vps.arachnoid.com/arachnophilia/. Of course, there is NVU which is a branch of the Mozilla code that Lars referred to, but in a stand alone program, which a lot of people like. (That is a lot of people prefer several stand alone programs versus a suite.) http://www.nvu.com/ HTH, -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Ten Things That Still Bug Me About OpenOffice
On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 06:40 +1000, Jonathon Coombes wrote: On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 15:19 +0200, Peter Reaper wrote: SNIP! 6. Double click should select a sentence; tripple click should select a paragraph. (it might already do this) I think it is close. I believe double click will select the word and a triple click the paragraph. Oops. That should be 3 clicks for sentance, and 4 for paragraph. Regards Jonathon -- OOo Tips (RSS) - http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au/tips.rss OOo Knowledgebase - http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au/ Cybersite Consulting - http://www.cybersite.com.au/ Training4Linux - http://www.training4linux.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 21:46 +0100, Sander Vesik wrote: --- Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: x86 processor, solar cells, fusion technology, cars, fuel cells. But Daniel, all of these are positively *BURIED* in patents. Software is different from other commodities. Patents on other commodities might or might not be vital. They certainly are not vital for software to flourish. Evidence? The whole of the education software market in the UK developed with out any patents. So why introduce something in Europe that we have got along quite nicely without for so long? The US might want to waste its resources on lawyers and litigation, some of us over here have no desire to go down that route. -- Ian Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] ZMSL - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] openoffice 2
Thanks for the reply. I had no idea it was a FAQ. My reply would still be, that applications are meant to be used by people, rather than a toy for developers. The mozilla organisation managed to keep the old, big and slow application, but also managed to split the core components into individual applications, which are much lighter, faster, and now popular, so popular that IE and Outlook are a thing of the past on many desktops. As a result, the monolitic mozilla was improved too. Concerning Office, we have a good word processor (AbiWord), a good graphical editor (gimp), we are flooded with database managers, but we are starving for a state-of-the-art spreadsheet. I do not understand OOo's oriental philosophy about making one with everything, but I hope it will be small, or you will get lost in it. Bob __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] MS Office Import/Export
Text boxes and embedded JPEG's. They were imported into Open, but lost when saved in Open with MS Office Format. The same type objects when created in Open are saved correctly in MS Office format. But the objects cannot be edited and saved in MS Office lest Open imports them, but cannot save them correctly. Thus making it difficult to run a hybred Office system. Is that clearer? - Original Message - From: Peter Kupfer OOo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: discuss@openoffice.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [discuss] MS Office Import/Export A Fuller wrote: Open doesn't import or export properly if the file was originally created in Word/Excel. Most data lost is when the file is saved. If you create the file in Open and save it in Word/Excel format, no data is lost when moving file between Open Word/Excel. It imports embedded objects and displays them from file created in Word/Excel. But, it does not save them. However, if you embed objects in Open, save them in Word/Excel, Both Open and Word/Excel have no trouble reading and saving. It is just if you make a change in Word/Excel and save it, Open has trouble importing and saving the change. This should keep you talking for awhile. Otherwise, everything is OK so far. Could you be more specific as to an exact example of something that didn't work? Thanks. -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Palm
I have recently bought a Palm PDA, which has limited functions for writing documents. As I was creating some documents, I thought it would be nice to be able to create these using OpenOffice.org on the PDA. Are there any plans to port OOo to Palm? Cheers Saalo -- !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8 META NAME=GENERATOR CONTENT=GtkHTML/3.6.1 /HEAD BODY PRE A HREF=http://www.opencomm.org.uk;http://www.opencomm.org.uk/A All information from this source is intended for the person(s) named in the e-mail. If you are not this person, please disregard the e-mail. All outgoing mail has been scanned for viruses, but it is stringly recommended that it be scanned at the destination point. This e-mail is the opinion of the sender only. /PRE /BODY /HTML
Re: [discuss] Poor choice of macro language (Object Model)
Chris Benatar wrote: Yes, I do agree with you on this although I do feel that the object model is the way most people would see the language ie. although it is an extension of it, it is a pretty critical one. Not sure what would be involved in changing the languages interface to the object model or even if it can be done but it certainly would be welcomed. We can define new API functions and implement them so that the OOoBasic API built upon them becomes easier to use or we can add some smart functions to OOoBasic that lets it emulate easy access using the more complex API functions. As an example for the second approach, we have some objects that offer an API like: n = MyObject.getPropertyValue( PropName ) Basic can automatically inspect this object and allows you to write n = MyObject.PropName There are a lot more things possible. VBA uses the same tricks, the raw API of Word or Excel is also much more complicated than you could guess from seeing VBA code. Currently we are investigating both ways: we are looking for new, simpler APIs and we are thinking about more smart capabilities of OOoBasic. In defence of the OOo API: I can do things that were virtually impossible with Microsoft Office (MSO). For example, my reveal codes macro simply wouldn't be possible in MSO. But intruth for 99.9% of users this level of power and sophistication is not required and it comes at a price. I agree that there is a trade-off, but I disagree with the 99.9% number, I can't accept it even for the absolute beginner. Trade-offs create dynamic processes, a permanent struggle where evolving experience might allow you to approach the optimum over time. Best regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer - OpenOffice.org Application Framework Project Lead Please reply to the list only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a spam sink. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Palm
Saalo Sparkes wrote: I have recently bought a Palm PDA, which has limited functions for writing documents. As I was creating some documents, I thought it would be nice to be able to create these using OpenOffice.org on the PDA. Are there any plans to port OOo to Palm? Current versions of PalmOS through 5.x (also known as Garnet) are very difficult to port a program as large as OOo to, because of certain design compromises made back in the days of PalmOS 1.0. Cobalt (also known as PalmOS 6.x) is more promising, but there are no machines yet that actually run Cobalt. Still more promising is the Cobalt-on-Linux version that PalmSource is said to be developing. At present, the best thing to do is to use the Documents to Go package and save your OOo files in Microsoft Word or Excel format. -- John W. Kennedy The bright critics assembled in this volume will doubtless show, in their sophisticated and ingenious new ways, that, just as /Pooh/ is suffused with humanism, our humanism itself, at this late date, has become full of /Pooh./ -- Frederick Crews. Postmodern Pooh, Preface - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Poor choice of macro language (Object Model)
Ian Laurenson wrote: * In Writer searching is at a document level thus coding for searching within a selection is extremely tedious and the resulting code is slow. Interesting, can you provide an example that shows the problem? * Having an enumeration for PageLayout that doesn't include an option for none when you simply aren't concerned about duplex printing. Sorry, I don't understand this. Can you show it with a few code lines? A much higher priority for me is having more in the API such as the ability to easily have docked/floating windows in extensions. This is a feature we have considered for the next release. The biggest obstacle is that we lack a proper GUI toolkit, but at least we should be able to offer all controls you can use in a basic dialog also for docking/floating windows. As an example, we could use the xml description of a Basic dialog and declare it as a floater or a docking window. Best regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer - OpenOffice.org Application Framework Project Lead Please reply to the list only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a spam sink. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] openoffice 2
Bob Hunter wrote: My reply would still be, that applications are meant to be used by people, rather than a toy for developers. The mozilla organisation managed to keep the old, big and slow application, but also managed to split the core components into individual applications, which are much lighter, faster, and now popular, so popular that IE and Outlook are a thing of the past on many desktops. As a result, the monolitic mozilla was improved too. Concerning Office, we have a good word processor (AbiWord), a good graphical editor (gimp), we are flooded with database managers, but we are starving for a state-of-the-art spreadsheet. I do not understand OOo's oriental philosophy about making one with everything, but I hope it will be small, or you will get lost in it. It's interesting that so many people fall in the marketing trap. Firefox and Thunderbird are not really lighter than the Seamonkey suite, it's only the GUI that has been stripped down a lot. This GUI stripping is the main reason why Firefox starts and works considerably faster than Seamonkey. Mozilla wasn't so monolithic as described, otherwise the process of separating the new apps would have taken much longer. The new Seamonkey crew will deliver future builds based on the common core code delivered by the Mozilla project, but with the Seamonkey GUI that bundles the functionality of both apps in one GUI while FF and TB provide more or less the same functionality in two separate apps, but using the same code base. That doesn't sound very monolithic to me. Don't mix up GUI or code cleanups with the organisation of applications into one or more processes. For more information about this I refer to my other mail in this thread. BTW: I'm a pleased Firefox and Thunder user and I prefer them over the Seamonkey suite, but not because they have separate processes but because I like their GUI better. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people wouldn't recognize if both apps shared the same process as long as the GUI looks like they have separated apps. Moreover I would still like to have the option to run both apps in one process because at home I have a computer with only 330 MB of RAM and Firefox+Thunderbird as separate processes consume much more memory than a potential united FF+TB process. Best regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer - OpenOffice.org Application Framework Project Lead Please reply to the list only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a spam sink. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Palm
Hi, comments in line... -Original Message- From: Saalo Sparkes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 31, 2005 8:01 AM To: discuss@openoffice.org Subject: [discuss] Palm I have recently bought a Palm PDA, which has limited functions for writing documents. As I was creating some documents, I thought it would be nice to be able to create these using OpenOffice.org on the PDA. Are there any plans to port OOo to Palm? reply: no, unfortunately. Your best bet is to get Textmaker, which unfortunately is proprietary, but at least runs natively on Linux. You do have to pay for it, but they are pretty good about letting you copy it to a couple of your other computers. See their licenses for further details. I also know the CEO of the company, and he is a great guy, very nice, and he swears that he will eventually create OpenOffice.org filters for his products. I believe him, although it has been a little bit slow in coming. The great thing about Softmaker's products is that they are teeny tiny small. His word processor actually loads faster than AbiWord, which says a lot, because AbiWord is teeny tiny and loads exceedingly fast. Here's a link to his site: http://www.softmaker.com/english/ Good luck, Christian Einfeldt Cheers Saalo -- !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8 META NAME=GENERATOR CONTENT=GtkHTML/3.6.1 /HEAD BODY PRE A HREF=http://www.opencomm.org.uk;http://www.opencomm.org.uk/A All information from this source is intended for the person(s) named in the e-mail. If you are not this person, please disregard the e-mail. All outgoing mail has been scanned for viruses, but it is stringly recommended that it be scanned at the destination point. This e-mail is the opinion of the sender only. /PRE /BODY /HTML - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
On Tue, May 31, 2005 01:30:51 AM -0400, Daniel Carrera ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: The architecture of a new microprocessor can be drawn on a piece of paper, The issue is cost. That drawing (which would not fit on any piece of paper I know of) is very expensive to do. The point is not whether you need a huge facility to design a microprocessor, but whether there is a heavy capital investment before you get any money back. What is the difference? The point is that if you only design it without manufacturing at least a prototype you'll never know for sure that it works, and of course there is a huge capital investment to build a silicon foundry, much before it starts to make money. So yes, actually, it definitely scales, all the way up to the largest projects ever made. Like what? The pyramids and the gothic cathedrals? Things that, like accelerators and the telescopes you also mentioned, had no private use? Where does private come from? Sorry, I meant personal. Cathedrals and other temples are not built to be used by a single person for his own private business. The thing about using patents to protect invention is actually a very recent aberration in a few fields, The polio vaccine and the Internet are even more recent. Being recent does not automatically makes something wrong or worst of what existed before, That's not the point I was making. I never said new = bad and I don't know how you got that impression. From your sentence above: The thing about using patents to protect invention is actually a very recent aberration in a few fields. I was saying that most progress hasn't come from patents. I was saying that heavy capital investment to produce science is nothing new and patents are. Heavy capital investment isn't new, but it has been for a long time reserved, for any reasons, only to religious or politic, anyway monolithic and centralized, administrations for which mere profit was not *the* goal. Yes, in that context patents wouldn't mean much. But in general, the x86 architecture has been more open than the Mac architecture and this has been a driving reason why that architecture took off and now dominates the market, instead of the comparatively closed Mac architecture. So the basic point is still valid. The more closed system did worse. Or, maybe, both systems were closed by lots of patents, and the one that made the smartest use of them (certainly not for the common good and universal love) managed to keep control to make more money. Ciao, Marco -- Marco Fiorettimfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 3 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ [media giants] have no idea how to do business with resourceful human beings rather than passive vegetables. So they run to [the] government for protection. -- Doc Searls on the SSSCA, in Linux Journal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
M. Fioretti wrote: That's not the point I was making. I never said new = bad and I don't know how you got that impression. From your sentence above: The thing about using patents to protect invention is actually a very recent aberration in a few fields. Trust me, I didn't mean to imply new = bad and I still don't know how that came accross. The fact that an aberration came out recently does not mean that all that is recent is an aberration. Heavy capital investment isn't new, but it has been for a long time reserved, for any reasons, only to religious or politic, anyway monolithic and centralized, administrations I'm pretty sure that rich people who are not political or religious institutions have been around for a long time. In any event, political and religious groups are not what I have in mind. I'm talking about private individuals who are rich, and spend money on science (before the name as such appeared) and don't see a need to exclude others from using the knowledge they discover. Or, maybe, both systems were closed by lots of patents, and the one that made the smartest use of them (certainly not for the common good and universal love) managed to keep control to make more money. Fair enough. But the smart use of them involved making it easier for others to use them. Look, you've made a lot of good points and I don't want to deny them. But at least I hope I've successfully questioned the common wisdom that patents for /inventions/ are necessarily good and will encourage progress. At the very least, you've limited your claim to inventions that require heavy capital investment. Likewise, I'm sure there is at least are at least some scenarios where patents might actually encourage invention. My goal was mostly to shake the belief that patents, when applied correctly (no software, no genetics, etc) must be good for invention. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
Nicolas, I'm bringing the discussion back to the list, were I wanted to keep it. It is only by mistake (damned webmail) that I replied to you and not to OO.o in the message to which you answered below. On Tue, May 31, 2005 12:10:04 PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mar 31 mai 2005 11:51, Marco Fioretti a écrit : On Mar 31 mai 2005 5:27, M. Fioretti a écrit : You can do it with small material things which can be built with *very* little space and money, or in environments where, again unlike software, everybody plays by the same rules. But you can't release early and often new fuels, cars, microprocessors, or the extremely complex machinery needed to build even one single working prototype. Not when you want to actually build and sell many units. I stumbled yesterday on a documentary on the super sabre, where they were explaining the builder had been very open with competitors on all the problems encountered and the solutions found. May I ask you some concrete example, that is to quote exactly who was open about what, why and in which way? Just to be sure we are talking of the same things. They were finding new problems and new solutions. They shared them with the whole industry because they worried less about someone else cashing on their work than stalling the US war effort during the Corea war (technically their planes were inferior to the ones of their opponents). What does shared mean above? Is it shared as in we will publish everything in the libraries of the whole world, without patents or any other restriction, who cares if 5 years from now the Russians copy the plane _legally_ or the Europeans build their own version without buying it from any US company? or is it shared as in we will patent everything and then some, then sign a cross licensing deal to use each other patent's for free (standard practice among multinationals) for a limited time, and jump together to the throat of everybody else trying to copy our technology, because: The minister said we better hurry, if he is kicked off, so we are, and We can overprice everything anyway making a cartel, since no external competitors would be accepted? in other words, is that a proof of something? (in mass market terms : brand protection trumps secrecy/patent protection any time) Right. Little guy invents great thing. Big company copies it because it wasn't patented. Now both manufacture the same thing, but the small guy goes bankrupt because everybody wants the big brand. I know things would end bad for the little guy anyway (it costs too much to sue) but in the patent-less scenario he would be screwed _legally_, even if lawyers worked for free. Ciao, Marco -- Marco Fiorettimfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 3 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ Don't you wish you had more energy... or less ambition? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
On Tue, May 31, 2005 21:46:03 PM +1200, Wesley Parish ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: One NZ inventor - Richard Pierce - who believed in this working-in-secret has the distinction of never having his inventions in the fields of aviation or anything else, actually get taken up anywhere. So as an inventor he's incredible, as a practical success - he wasted his life. Any URL for this guy? Couldn't find any info from Google :-( Ciao, Marco -- Marco Fiorettimfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 3 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ There are tasks that cannot be done by more than ten men, or less than one hundred - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
On Tue, May 31, 2005 01:34:50 AM -0400, Daniel Carrera ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: M. Fioretti wrote: In Free Software, Free Society, R.M. Stallman talks about the perversion of the original intent of patent and copyright law. For those of us in the US, our constitution states clearly that these are granted for the benefit of society. Most other countries say something similar. http://gnu.open-mirror.com/doc/book13.html I never said anything to the contrary. You said, in the previous message, I'm pretty sure that the intention was (2), not (1), (1) being that patents exist to benefit society. I could sell to you something I made which in itself is extremely simple, and can be reverse-engineered in seconds. But in practice it can be manufactured only with some very special machinery. Which I have no obligation to sell you. I'd patent that machinery. Then the argument simply shifts to the design of the machine. Spending many years designing your machine in seclusion is less effective than designing it in small steps and sharing those. Define effective. If I am a genius, able to work it out 20 minutes a day in six months, I won't have wasted anything. And if I were so disgustingly greedy to want not to become a billionaire, the hell with that, but to just pay my mortgage and afford a nice vacation every summer, then doing it myself and patenting it would be damned effective, if not the only realistic way to achieve the goal. Note that my scheme doesn't exclude yours. There is no reason to patent everything you do. Project A pays the mortgage, project B is a pet activity to do with friends online on saturdays. Ciao, Marco -- Marco Fiorettimfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 3 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ [Crash programs] fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.Wernher von Braun - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
Sander Vesik wrote: --- Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read this patent and I think it covers every conceivable method of communication between computers done by applications, connected by any means. If this patent is enfoceable, Microsoft would own the methods of communicating on any form of communication means applications could communicate with each other. Claim 1 defines this. uh, no, not really. please read some more patents and get an understanding on how what is written in the patent application messhes together to form the patent. Claim 1 stands alone. It was awarded alone. Others may depend on it, but it depends on none. The USPTO does not enforce patents and patents are worthless until they stand up to a challenge in court. Nonsense. Most patents, including ones on which millions of dollars are paid for licences every year never get challenged in court. It is up to you to enforce your patent, through the courts if necessary. The patent office only grants patents based on unique teachings disclosed by them. This patent looks to be largely unenforceable. Who are they going to take to court? Everybody on the internet or a network who is running applications that communicate with each other? whoever violates in their opinion the things that patent really is about. They can do that if they wish to spend the money. MS has plenty. Doesn't mean their patent will stand up. The patent is only enforceable if a court agrees that it is and issues an order for the defendant to cease infringing or the defendant negotiates prior to a court decision. Cheers, Alex Janssen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
Sander Vesik wrote: --- Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel, All I was pointing out was that MS didn't even do what you suggested. You said since all ideas are based on relatively small modifications of old ones and that is true. They did not invent anything, although there patent would lead you to believe otherwise. *grin* So please englighten us, what about the patent is all that old? Well, I looked at arbitrary annotated source code as defining any data structure(object) and format of a document having a serial format as governed by this source code. I've been doing that since I learned to create records in a database over 20 years ago. Maybe I'm over simplifying this claim. Cheers, Alex Janssen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
M. Fioretti wrote: Of course. But if they do it for profit, they will only shell the money out if there is the possibility (through patents) to get more back. Look, I don't question that patents let companies make more money than they would otherwise. What I'm saying is that (1) they can still make money without and more imporantly (2) progress is faster without. Unfortunately, very, very few people with this sensibility get rich. Very few people get rich through patents for that matter. Better not to risk to delay progress by relying only on them. I'm confident that progress is faster without secrecy and without inhibiting building upon previous work. I hope I've successfully questioned the wisdom, common in Free SW circles, that all patents for any invention (excluding SW, genes, drugs) are necessarily harmful and will slow down progress. I had *never* heard that notion before. My opinions certainly don't come from experience in the Free SW community. They come from my experience in the scientific community. No, that was only part of my examples, or at least of my thought. If I invent something truly revolutionary and useful spending just 10 Euros, I want both: The issue is not what you as an inventor want. The issue is whether patents tend to speed progress or not. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
M. Fioretti wrote: In Free Software, Free Society, R.M. Stallman talks about the perversion of the original intent of patent and copyright law. For those of us in the US, our constitution states clearly that these are granted for the benefit of society. Most other countries say something similar. http://gnu.open-mirror.com/doc/book13.html I never said anything to the contrary. You said, in the previous message, I'm pretty sure that the intention was (2), not (1), (1) being that patents exist to benefit society. No, (1) was make sure that everybody can learn all the details of new technologies by *forcing* inventors to disclose what they did. and (2) was keep inventors motivated to keep inventing while giving away by granting them a temporary monopoly. (2) is a way to benefit society. Define effective. For this discussion, a more effective system is that which produces the greatest ammount of innovation. If I am a genius, Then you would be the exception, and not a suitable example for deciding how to encourage innovation. Most innovation doesn't come from geniuses. Note that my scheme doesn't exclude yours. There is no reason to patent everything you do. Ok, I'm glad. Look, as I said earlier, I can accept that there might be instances where patents might, over-all, help more than harm. My point is that I think for the most part, they do more harm than good. That the extra motivation does not compensate for the less efficient system. The point I've tried to make is to reject the notion that properly implemented patents necessarily promote innovation. Not that they *never* do. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Please put actual filename in header bar
Volk, Andrew M wrote: I am writing to suggest that the filename of the file being edited in Writer should be in the header line (or somewhere in the frame). I am writing documents which are going through a lot of edits between me and a collaborator on the Web. To keep the versions straight, we are including the date of the edit in the filename. Unfortunately, the name displayed on-screen is the name in Properties which want to be the same for all versions. It is a nuisance to have to edit both the Properties name and the filename. It is important to know which file is being edited when you have more than one version open at the same time. Andrew Volk I will repost what I already replied to you once. To see the dialog that ensues, please subscribe to the list. This is a very contentious issue. In OOo 1.1.x the filename is displayed unless the document has title, then the title is displayed, so the user has a choice and everyone can be happy. In OOo 2.0 only the file name will display, so 1/2 of the population will be happy. Those of use that edit web pages in OOo now get to look at underscores in our title bar. YEAH! (That is sarcasm. :( ). HTH, -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Tedious?
On Tuesday 31 May 2005 02:06 pm, Marq van Hoof wrote: Hi there, I copied the following text from the website: *Note. Depending on your install set you may be asked if you want OpenOffice.org to be your default Office suite.* If you answer yes and then change your mind, returning to the prior state is tedious. You need to reassociate all Office files. What you mean tedious? Just right-click on a type of file you want to change, e.g. you want all your .sxw files changed to .doc files. Choose 'Open With', click 'choose program ' and make sure you have the box checked that says something like 'allways use this program to open these kind of files'. Now ALL your .sxw files will change to .doc. Tedious because it usually results in somebody asking a question that has been asked and answered many times before. And you are right; it isn't difficult, just the explaining of it is. :-)) I just started using Open Office two weeks ago, but since it hasn't got Dutch spelling I had to reassign these files to Word. Is there anyway to install a Dutch dictionary or spellcheck or is there a way to let OpenOffice use the Word-dictionary or something like that? Dutch Spell checker can be installed in a couple of ways: See here: http://lingucomponent.openoffice.org/spell_dic.html http://lingucomponent.openoffice.org/dictpack.html or using the File-AutoPilot-Install New Dictionaries from the OOo menu. and I think, probably explained better, here: http://nl.openoffice.org/ I changed my settings to Dutch as far as possible, but for spelling I can only choose between English and Italian. Even if I create my own dictionary it keeps using the English one, when I try to use my own dictionary the 'Add' button won't work. After you install the dictionary, make sure that the characters of the document in Dutch are correct: Ctrl-A, right-click, Character, and pick lang. regards, Richard. Don't know if I'm in the right place with my questions, if not, please let me know where I can find some answers. Kind regards, Marq van Hoof [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- * * * * * Metaalkundeforums * * * * * http://darklotus666.proboards39.com/index.cgi ~*~ For All Things Metal ~*~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Please put actual filename in header bar
Volk, Andrew M wrote: Ah! Thanks for the tip. It works great (after you save the file). (Contentious? Well, I like the filename for documents, so I'm happy.) Andrew Volk I like the way 1.1.x treats it, in so far as I have a choice, between the file name or the file title. If I am edited something I want to save on the web, the file name will most likely include underscores which I don't want to see in the menu bar. I am hoping for an option in some subsequent 2.0 build. -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Re: OOO20 beta is still much weaker as ms office
Peter Reaper wrote: Sam Hiser on 31.05.2005 15:39 wrote: Perhaps someone would like to help Robert convert his problems into bug reports? I used to be someone and have spent hundreds of hours reporting and commenting on bugs (for Mozilla), most of which are still sitting there, unfixed. It seems that my priorities are not those of the programmers. :-( Well, in general it is useless to criticize OOo on this list without also filing an RFE at some point, because, and I could be wrong, I don't think a whole lot of developers are around here. I will say in the past few months, I have seen at least two changes that couldn't possibly be made in 2.0 because of time, get accomplished because of chatter from the lists. Is there another someone around here? :-) PS. What are the posting guidelines around here? Top/bottom-posting? Cropping? Bottom posts seem to be preferred with cropping (is this the same as snipping) when possible, especially when replying to long posts with very little new content. Welcome to the list. -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Re: OOO20 beta is still much weaker as ms office
Peter Reaper wrote: Dave, I sincerely hope you are not a fanboy. Although some of your defensive/aggressive terminology suggests that might be. :-P I don't think this is case. I think he, along with others, want people to offer suggestion and help and not just come on the list and complain and then say they don't have time when they are told to file RFEs. That is a common emotion on the list. Clearly, Robert is *not* a troll. He *may* be ignorant of some facts (I don't know), or he may see things differently than you. He might even have some valid criticism. I don't know that this is clear. Why would you say this? Relax, let ideas flow. :-) Ideas can flow, but they need to be constructive. This is not a forum to paste errors in the code, unless the post is to see if someone else can confirm the error. As you know, that is what issuezilla is for. :) -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Re: Thunderbird versus Outlook
Jonathan Kaye wrote: Thanks for the interesting posting, Adrian. One thing I didn't quite understand is, can you now use Thunderbird with your pocket pc? My friend is using Outlook (not express) on his desktop because he uses it on his palmtop. He'd be happy to switch to TB if it could also run on his palmtop. Cheers, Jonathan You can use TB with a Palm OS device, I don't know about a Pocket PC (MS Based.) -- Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/tips/ooo_tips_tricks.html To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
--- Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sander Vesik wrote: --- Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel, All I was pointing out was that MS didn't even do what you suggested. You said since all ideas are based on relatively small modifications of old ones and that is true. They did not invent anything, although there patent would lead you to believe otherwise. *grin* So please englighten us, what about the patent is all that old? Well, I looked at arbitrary annotated source code as defining any data structure(object) and format of a document having a serial format as governed by this source code. I've been doing that since I learned to create records in a database over 20 years ago. Sure, it also uses age-old words like 'and' that have been in use for hundreds of years :P Maybe I'm over simplifying this claim. you seemto be seeing just soe fragments and not teh whole - recognising well-known tree species but not that you have wondered up to a forest you havne't seen before ;-) Its not that teh patent is something incredibly novel or innovative or that parts of it (or possibly all) probably won't be upheld in court or that there definitely won't be prior art - its just that it is not (as far as software patents go in this regard) somehow entirely bogus or preposterous or would cover all (or even a fraction of) computer-computer communication as people have been claiming. Cheers, Alex Janssen Sander .sigless ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Poor choice of macro language (Object Model)
--- Mathias Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently we are investigating both ways: we are looking for new, simpler APIs and we are thinking about more smart capabilities of OOoBasic. It has bee a while since I have said this (mostly due to mailing list inactivity) but - hopefully something DOM-syle that is familiar with anybody who has done javascript based dynamic web pages or similar will be one such available API. Best regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer - OpenOffice.org Application Framework Project Lead Please reply to the list only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a spam sink. Sander .sigless ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
Hey, guys should not we take this to social? It is becoming less and less discussing. Chris M. Fioretti wrote: You can do it with small material things which can be built with *very* little space and money, or in environments where, again unlike software, everybody plays by the same rules. But you can't release early and often new fuels, cars, microprocessors, or the extremely complex machinery needed to build even one single working prototype. Not when you want to actually build and sell many units. Actually, very large particle accelerators are a lot more expensive than cars and microprocessors and they don't use the restrictive model (some new fuels are cheaper, others aren't). They still grow progress in incremental steps. It's also interesting to note that new fules, cars and microprocessors also don't have the secretive model you described, and this lack of secrecy or monopoly has been the source of inmsense growth in new fuels, cars and microprocessors. This has been the case for as long as there have been projects that require high expenditures (several hundred years, beginning with large telescopes for astronomy). And they have all been done without secrecy or monopoly, and they have all grown inmensely because of the lack of secrecy and monopoly. So yes, actually, it definitely scales, all the way up to the largest projects ever made. The thing about using patents to protect invention is actually a very recent aberration in a few fields, most notably the pharmaceutical industry (and the pharmaceutical industry uses labs that are cheaper than particle accelerators or fusion reactors). It is a lot less common that it might seem at first. But truth is, most discovery is not done in the big-bang model. Not in the past, and not today. Historically, yes. It was a simpler world, with simpler technology to discover. 1) Proportionally, telescopes and other technology of the time was still quite very expensive. 2) What I said still applies to the modern world. Again, it would be wonderful if all inventions could happen in the way you describe. They can. And I'm sure that the benefit that might be derived from the finnancial incentive is far outweight by the slow down in discovery due to government imposed monopolies. And I surely want to see a world where as much scientific research as possible is funded by governments and other non-profit institutions. for the common good. Don't confuse the small-step development model with aulterism. Perfectly selfish companies can bring about discovery without patents, and earn money. And indeed, discovery is faster. A good example of this is, ironicaly, in the computer industry. Microprocessors are not packed with patents. Nothing prohibits you from creating a microprocessor that copies the x86 design, inspite of the fact that it took time, effort and money to make. But you don't see the microprocessor industry stagnant. In fact, you see the opposite, it's seen fantastic growth. Now, what would happen if (say) Intel had been granted a monopoly on the x86 chip model? Then AMD would not have been able to compete with them by copying the model, which would have removed a motivator for Intell to improve the technology further. And today microprocessors would not be nearly as advanced as they are today. The same holds true for cars, new fuels, and many other things that require heavy investment. But I am convinced that *real* patents, as they were meant to be, would NOT hurt or slow down that process, and stimulate a lot of activity in the meantime. I have no doubt that if Intel had gotten a patent on the x86 chip design, that would have severely hurt the development of microprocessors. Likewise, I've seen sound medical research been hurt bye either patents or patent-like provisions from NAFTA. There was a case where an American company found a very expensive, and accurate method of detecting a type of cancer (I forget the details). A Canadian company found a method that was only about 80-90% accurate (based on looking at proteins, I remember that bit, it was an indirect method) but was less than 1/10th the cost. The American company successfully sued the Canadian under NAFTA provisions and forced it to stop. Notice, this was a completely different system of diagnosing the same illness. I can't believe that this sort of system stimulates progress. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
On Mon, May 30, 2005 20:23:13 PM -0400, Daniel Carrera ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Chris BONDE wrote: Now the basic concept of rewarding a person for disclosing their idea to the world instead of keeping it a secret is good (patent). That is neither the intention, nor the effect of patents. As far as I know, it indeed *is*. I (government): 1) make sure that everybody can learn all the details of new technologies by *forcing* inventors to disclose what they did. 2) keep inventors motivated to keep inventing while giving away by granting them a temporary monopoly. The intention of patents was to encourage people to work on developing ideas with the promise that, in return, they would be granted a temporary monopoly. No. Without patents people would have invented and sold anyway, just keeping the secret on how they did stuff. Meaning that their monopoly, without the patent papers which are mandated just to share knowledge as *early* as possible, could have lasted even longer than a patent duration. Marco Well put. Certain companies have trade secrets which are kept secret for much longer than necessary. If these where released then further improvement could have been done hence better for all. However, the implimentation of the patent scheme has changed. Each country has a different way of handling the patent. Some charge large fees. Some charge yearly renewal fees with the fee increasing each year. Then others are almost a registration service. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Another MS XML patent
On Tue, May 31, 2005 21:23:23 PM -0700, Chris BONDE ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: 1) Please, NEVER retransmit pages and pages of text only to add a couple of lines. Always trim as much as possible! Thanks Hey, guys should not we take this to social? No, why? First of all I'm not on that list. I am only interested in discussing what impacts OO.o adoption. And wrong ideas on patents are darn relevant to this, so I don't see why this particular thread is off topic. Ciao, Marco -- Marco Fiorettimfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 3 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ ...the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. (Calvin) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
