Re: [313] Regarding Business
I want to respond to the music has no color bit If music has no color, I'd like to see 4 black dudes play the roles of the 4 Beatles in a movie. Or a white man playing the role of Jimi Hendrix in a movie. g. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[313] Regarding Business
-- close your eyes. whether we're white, black, yellow... we just feel the soul music inside. blind-listen. deaf-feel Is your boss reading your email? Probably Keep your messages private by using Lycos Mail. Sign up today at http://mail.lycos.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[313] Regarding Business
This really has nothing to do with the thread... but I'm listening to Rolando's Aztech Mystic mix. and nobody does music like Detroit. Black. White. Latino. Whatever. The best artists are born here, move here, or are inspired by this city and its artists. Detroit's artists may not make the money. They may not have the fame. But they're as successful as anyone else if you ask me. When people around the world hang on your every note, word, and thought - you've made it. Let's allow the thread to die. It's taking attention away from more important things. = Krhn! - [Detroit Intelectronic Listowner ] [aim : krhn3][Visual ID - http://facelink.com/Krhn ] [Intelligent Electronic Music Discussion: ] [http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/intelectronic] __ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
THIS WAS NOT MY POST YOU ARE REFERRING TO BELOW. Please read carefully before directing criticism to someone on this list. -- From: Vince Woolums [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 List 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 8:16 AM It's important to remember, Cyclone, that you're essentially describing a social 'norm' for Australia, North America and Europe. Actions and epithets of racism, oppression, religious purism and isolationism have been/are present everywhere, and have been/are present at nearly all times in 'history'. These actions and epithets are not exclusive to white males. Vince Woolums Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business 1 Concepts/words are not neutral, they are contested weapons which social forces use in struggles for power. There is no such thing as an objective/politically neutral linguistics, and meanings are not static. This is especially true of a loaded concept like racism. 2 From Deleuze and Guattari, A THOUSAND PLATEAUS, CAPITALISM AND SCHIZOPHRENIA, PP. 469-470 MINORITIES. Ours is becoming the age of minorities. We have seen several times that minorities are not necessarily defined by the smallness of their numbers but rather by becoming a line of fluctuation, in other words, by the gap that seperates them from this or that axiom constituting a redundant majority... Nonwhites would recieve no adequate expression by becoming a new yellow or black majority, an infinite denumerable set. What is proper to the minority is to assert a power of the nondenumerable, even if that minority is composed of a single member. That is the formula for multiplicities. Minority as a universal figure, or becoming everybody/everything. Woman: we all have to become that, whether we are male or female. Nonwhite: we all have to become that, whether we are white, yellow, or black. 3 In other words, the minority is defined by difference from a NORM, and that norm in our society exists as the WHITE ADULT MALE. Essential to institutionalized racism sexism is the measuring of a person's difference and Otherness from this norm; it is for that reason impossible for a black person to be racist in the same way as a white person, because the force of this norm (and the socio-historical conditions that have given risen to the norm) is not on their side. On the other hand, it is always possible, even for a white adult male, to enter into a process of becoming, and through this process to become something other than the norm. What is at stake here is Otherness itself, the power to not have a fixed identity but rather to experience life as an infinite journey. And at this point I'd like to say something controversial: you don't have to BE black to make techno, but one might say that, musically, you have to become-black in order to make techno, in otherwords, you have to become part of the tradition of music which comes out of black culture and speak/sing in a language that is not the language of the majority. (Of course there are other becomings, becomings-woman, becomings-animal, becomings-molecular...) a funky African rhythm, sensuous strings, a bird floating through the heavens, little particles of sound that hover in the air... /cyborg k _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- From: Vince Woolums [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 List 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 8:16 AM It's important to remember, Cyclone, that you're essentially describing a social 'norm' for Australia, North America and Europe. Actions and epithets of racism, oppression, religious purism and isolationism have been/are present everywhere, and have been/are present at nearly all times in 'history'. These actions and epithets are not exclusive to white males. Vince Woolums Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business 1 Concepts/words are not neutral, they are contested weapons which social forces use in struggles for power. There is no such thing as an objective/politically neutral linguistics, and meanings are not static. This is especially true of a loaded concept like racism. 2 From Deleuze and Guattari, A THOUSAND PLATEAUS, CAPITALISM AND SCHIZOPHRENIA, PP. 469-470 MINORITIES. Ours is becoming the age of minorities. We have seen several times that minorities are not necessarily defined by the smallness of their numbers but rather by becoming a line of fluctuation
Re: [313]Regarding Business
At least Fatboy Slim knows where Chicago and Detroit are on the musical map. But if I read that quote one more time I'm gonna urp right here on 313. He makes the music more palatable -- right. I have the same complaint about him that I have about Moby and Puffy -- obviously talented people who turned away from the hard road of creating something original and instead put their focus on whatever will get them the most attention and MONEY based on using other people's stuff in a basically non-creative way. And then boast all day long about how innovative they are. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
- Original Message - From: R.Y.Fixer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business One entry found for racism. Main Entry: rac·ism Pronunciation: 'rA-si-zm also -shi- Function: noun Date: 1936 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race Sorry to prolong this, but this is the heart of the matter. Who defined this and when? 1936??? I think it's likely that race relations have changed a bit since then. This is *one* definition of racism. As Tamara has been trying to point out, there is an entire field of study devoted to this topic. These is no consensus definition of what *is* racist. Critical race theory exists to that end. As someone who has changed his views on race relations, and had those views profoundly changed by what he read with an open mind, I can highly recommend taking Tamara's suggestions to heart, and educate yourself about race offlist rather than presuming that *you are right* about it, or that it can simply be reduced to a difference of opinion. No one is *right* about racism, but we all need to learn about it. These opinions are informed by our class and race pivilidges, our open-mindedness to unlearn what has been given to us from the moment we became social and by considering in detail the experiences of those that are different from us. Consider that we all (black, white or whatever) may have racism (in its many forms) to unlearn! And even if not, there may be institutional forces at work that go beyond the scope of yours and my view. As I posted a few weeks ago, Bell Hooks provided the breakthroughs for me, and Malcolm X helped prepare me for her more radical vision. I can't recommend another book more than Killing Rage, Ending Racism. Derrick Bell's fiction featuring Geneva Crenshaw is also very thought provoking. It very well may change the way you see the world if you'll read this material sincerely. It may not, and if you still disagree, you'll at least have considered a different viewpoint. That's a good thing! People arguing these points here are trying to effect change through debate and impassioned speech. Dr. King did this, Malcolm X did this, and many people's views were changed as a result. Take a step back, consider that none of us know everything about race, and open your mind to the evidence, regardless of what you may decide. Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com - Music http://www.metrotechno.net - DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com - DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com - Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email FrogboyMCI - AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: [313] Regarding Business
Hey Jayson, I'm fine today? You? I hope you can keep up this 'politeness' thing for a while, as for me it's natural - I live in hope! In any case, as I say, it is a great and momentous thing when someone like yourself (I think we all here can say that to an extent we know you - at least the rather unfortunate side of you) is capable of courtesy, 5 lines without an expletive and capable of tendering respect where it's due (i.e. to a larg extent most of humanity) - even if you disagree the other person - I saw your message to Juan Atkins. For that, I and many are sincerely glad. As I say, maybe you can even keep it up. Now to your points: And I hope you can do me the courtesy of reading them fairly closely, I do apologise that I've gone on a bit more than I'd really want to, but this IS important.) The crux of the thing is that 'discrimination in any form sucks'. Now as I've iterated before and I'm happy (kinda!) to reiterate - what Ms Gavoor implied about gays was wrong, hurtful, etc. Therefore flew in the face of points she had forcefully made about racism. Unfortunate. What I'm saying is that whilst the contradiction is much more than regretable - remember that phrase I used, right from the earliset? - this does not detract from THE PRINCIPLE that racism exists in all spheres - certainly in what appears to be a liberal societal sphere such as popular music. I can tell you it exists in another ostensibly 'liberal' sphere, the media, in which I work. Don't worry reactionaries,racism is alive and well and working in the American and European medias. Focus on the PRINCIPLE not the individual. You can work with the principle. And if the individual is impervious to change as time may prove or disprove, that person will be left behind but maybe a greater majority will go forward. Focus on the propogator of the message at every turn and you'll be blown off course. This week is a case in point. PREJUIDICE STINKS LIKE A RANCID CORPSE THAT CAN'T BE BURIED. IT STINKS IN ALL FORMS. It will never be buried if all outgroups in the world allow themselves to be distracted by internecine warfare - that way only the conventionalists win. Ever heard of the Last Poets? A 1960s black jazz/poetry collective. Check 'em out, they did some crazy, thought provoking and groovy music back then, and their remnants are still doing the same today. 1996, a principal member, who's changed his name to Abiodoun Olewole said in a liner note: (remeber this is a former friend of Malcolm X and a veteran Black Power campaigner) Never forget our friends, we can't succeed without our friends - I've heard him say the same thing to a predominantly white audience at the Jazz Cafe in London. Think about it. Peace - ...and even respect (as long as you can maintain this facade of respect to others that is - or maybe you can even demonstrate that it's not a facade). Peace in any case, Ken -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 6:06 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Further, I'd say they're inexcusable really. However, I wondered how those offensive remarks of Ms Gavoor, invalidated the other stuff Laura Gavoor said. Still have yet to get a cogent non-insulting, non inflammatory response that actually answers that question. Hi ken! i'm so very glad for your response, and i can't wait to provide you with a non-insulting positive response of my own! It depends on ms gavoor's full opinion of discrimination. if she feels strongly about people getting discriminated against, then it DOES invalidate her response. In that context, having her say ,'discrimination sucks,' and then turning around and saying the word 'faggot,' is 100% contradictory. it causes the reader to believe that she does not believe in her own views. Or if she feels that only black people are discriminated against, or that black people are the only ones worthy of a sympathetic shoulder when it comes to discrimination, then i'll shut up. but i still find the word faggot offensive. Hope to hear from you soon ken, and have a great day! _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
actually, there is a very clear accepted definition. It might be worded slightly differently in the OED but that was from Mirriam Webster, the US standard dictionary. Language is the only way we human animals have to convey meaning, and for it to work, we all need to work from the same definitions. You cannot just randomly change a definition just because it suits you and then expect everyone else you speak with to understand what the hell you are talking about. Do meanings change over time? Sure, and when they become an accepted standard, the dictionaries add the new meanings. Have race relations changed? Sure, but that wasn't what I posted about. I posted a definition for racism, nothing about race relations. I wasn't arguing with anyone that I was right about anything. Take a breath and actually read instead of just reacting. On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 02:55, Phonopsia wrote: Sorry to prolong this, but this is the heart of the matter. Who defined this and when? 1936??? I think it's likely that race relations have changed a bit since then. This is *one* definition of racism. As Tamara has been trying to point out, there is an entire field of study devoted to this topic. These is no consensus definition of what *is* racist. ...[blah blah blah]... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
- Original Message - From: R.Y.Fixer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Phonopsia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 7:57 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business actually, there is a very clear accepted definition. It might be worded slightly differently in the OED but that was from Mirriam Webster, the US standard dictionary. Language is the only way we human animals have to convey meaning, and for it to work, we all need to work from the same definitions. You cannot just randomly change a definition just because it suits you and then expect everyone else you speak with to understand what the hell you are talking about. Do meanings change over time? Sure, and when they become an accepted standard, the dictionaries add the new meanings. Have race relations changed? Sure, but that wasn't what I posted about. I posted a definition for racism, nothing about race relations. I wasn't arguing with anyone that I was right about anything. Take a breath and actually read instead of just reacting. Alright. I'll play your game. By defining a word, you fix its meaning. A dictionary should be a guidebook for a common acceptance of a term's meaning. From http://m-w.com (Miriam Webster's site) Main Entry: def·i·ni·tion Pronunciation: de-f-'ni-shn Function: noun Etymology: Middle English diffinicioun, from Middle French definition, from Latin definition-, definitio, from definire Date: 14th century 1 : an act of determining; specifically : the formal proclamation of a Roman Catholic dogma 2 a : a statement expressing the essential nature of something b : a statement of the meaning of a word or word group or a sign or symbol dictionary definitions c : a product of defining 3 : the action or process of defining 4 a : the action or the power of describing, explaining, or making definite and clear the definition of a telescope her comic genius is beyond definition b (1) : clarity of visual presentation : distinctness of outline or detail improve the definition of an image (2) : clarity especially of musical sound in reproduction c : sharp demarcation of outlines or limits a jacket with distinct waist definition - def·i·ni·tion·al /-'ni-sh-nl/ adjective It is precicesly because the meaning of the word racism is not definite and clear, that a theoretical study is devoted to clarifying this topic. Many things can be racist, other than an individual's attitudes towards another. There is a social complex at work, if nothing else. If you're so hot on Miriam Webster, try this definition: Main Entry: 3race Function: noun Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza Date: 1580 1 : a breeding stock of animals 2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by community of interests, habits, or characteristics the English race 3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type 4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition 5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength It's not terribly instructive to the ongoing discussions here, is it? Language is flawed. Meanings are debatable, and again, that is the heart of the matter and why I suggested reading more on this topic - so that each of us can enhance our own understandings of what might or might not be racist. Or, we could content ourselves with lowest common denominator definitions of things and never think for ourselves. I know that you never claimed that you were right, but you did come to everyone's aid with your ever-so-helpful definition. I am not simply reacting for the sake of reacting. I thought you hit the nail on the head by posting this definition, although apparently not in the way that you meant it. There is such wide disagreement here because we can't agree on what racism is. That was *my* point. Sorry if it wasn't clear. Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com - Music http://www.metrotechno.net - DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com - DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com - Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email FrogboyMCI - AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
Tristan has a great point here. Besides, how do you know that the person who posted originally about racism meant it the same way as webster did?! I mean seriously; wasn't webster only 3.5 ft. tall because of a deficiency in his pituitary gland? With all the medication he was taking, how do we even know that he was in the right state of mind when he wrote the dictionary? I know. Bad joke... I know that you never claimed that you were right, but you did come to everyone's aid with your ever-so-helpful definition. I am not simply reacting for the sake of reacting. I thought you hit the nail on the head by posting this definition, although apparently not in the way that you meant it. There is such wide disagreement here because we can't agree on what racism is. That was *my* point. Sorry if it wasn't clear. Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com - Music http://www.metrotechno.net - DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com - DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com - Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email FrogboyMCI - AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.mp313.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
this is the point exactly. How do we know what anyone else means unless we use the one common source of the meaning of the words we use in our language? I can see tristan really wishes the words mean something different to the rest of us, but it just hasn't happened yet. Linguistics and sociology aren't my chosen fields, otherwise I could pretend to be academic and have a wank off discussion about the topic with him. On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 14:27, T.J.Johnson wrote: Tristan has a great point here. Besides, how do you know that the person who posted originally about racism meant it the same way as webster did?! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
My suggestion is to start a new topic about racism in music and use the webster or OED definition from the get-go. then maybe it would go more smoothly??? this is the point exactly. How do we know what anyone else means unless we use the one common source of the meaning of the words we use in our language? I can see tristan really wishes the words mean something different to the rest of us, but it just hasn't happened yet. Linguistics and sociology aren't my chosen fields, otherwise I could pretend to be academic and have a wank off discussion about the topic with him. On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 14:27, T.J.Johnson wrote: Tristan has a great point here. Besides, how do you know that the person who posted originally about racism meant it the same way as webster did?! TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.mp313.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
there are many better forums available on the Net for those with an interest in Discrimination in the Music Industry, racial or sexual or what have you. Seek them out, the discussions would be welcome there and might even have qualified, educated people to help you formulating your own opinions. On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 14:39, T.J.Johnson wrote: My suggestion is to start a new topic about racism in music and use the webster or OED definition from the get-go. then maybe it would go more smoothly??? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
Eh. I don't personally really have an interest in discussing it unless I see a chance to crack a joke about it. It is interesting to read many of the posts though... On Fri, 08 March 2002, R.Y.Fixer wrote: there are many better forums available on the Net for those with an interest in Discrimination in the Music Industry, racial or sexual or what have you. Seek them out, the discussions would be welcome there and might even have qualified, educated people to help you formulating your own opinions. On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 14:39, T.J.Johnson wrote: My suggestion is to start a new topic about racism in music and use the webster or OED definition from the get-go. then maybe it would go more smoothly??? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.mp313.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
What I can't believe about you is that you are so dedicated to the fact that you are sure that I am mistaken at whatever I say, and that I can't have an opinion outside of yours, that that makes me racist, becuae I disagree that Jaun Atkins thinks there's racism against him in the electronic music industry. That whatever I have learned in the years of college I've had in the subject of Afro-American studies, is void, because you haven't had the ability to be there with me in class, and tear analyze the syllabis. I think it is you the one who are racist, and if not racist, very prejudice against what you think are white people. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
if you are not going to engage yourself with the reading material this conversation is mute because we are coming from different points of reference. good day, Tamara Harris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Sometimes it seems that it would be easier for me to make it in the electronic music indistry if I were black. This, I think, is because most of the ones I look up to are black and it almost seems like a pre-req, you know what I mean? I'm not saying that this is a fact or anything. I think everyone, as we said earlier, feels racism whether it be reverse or not. It is a weird thing. My true view on racism, in general, is that is was put here on earth as an obstacle that can only make us (red-blooded people) stronger. It can be a brick wall to some while merely a hurdle for others. Each one of us just has to strengthen ourselves enough to hop over it Can I get a witness?!?!?!?!? TJ The future was yesterday... www.mp313.com ~~go here PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
1 Concepts/words are not neutral, they are contested weapons which social forces use in struggles for power. There is no such thing as an objective/politically neutral linguistics, and meanings are not static. This is especially true of a loaded concept like racism. 2 From Deleuze and Guattari, A THOUSAND PLATEAUS, CAPITALISM AND SCHIZOPHRENIA, PP. 469-470 MINORITIES. Ours is becoming the age of minorities. We have seen several times that minorities are not necessarily defined by the smallness of their numbers but rather by becoming a line of fluctuation, in other words, by the gap that seperates them from this or that axiom constituting a redundant majority... Nonwhites would recieve no adequate expression by becoming a new yellow or black majority, an infinite denumerable set. What is proper to the minority is to assert a power of the nondenumerable, even if that minority is composed of a single member. That is the formula for multiplicities. Minority as a universal figure, or becoming everybody/everything. Woman: we all have to become that, whether we are male or female. Nonwhite: we all have to become that, whether we are white, yellow, or black. 3 In other words, the minority is defined by difference from a NORM, and that norm in our society exists as the WHITE ADULT MALE. Essential to institutionalized racism sexism is the measuring of a person's difference and Otherness from this norm; it is for that reason impossible for a black person to be racist in the same way as a white person, because the force of this norm (and the socio-historical conditions that have given risen to the norm) is not on their side. On the other hand, it is always possible, even for a white adult male, to enter into a process of becoming, and through this process to become something other than the norm. What is at stake here is Otherness itself, the power to not have a fixed identity but rather to experience life as an infinite journey. And at this point I'd like to say something controversial: you don't have to BE black to make techno, but one might say that, musically, you have to become-black in order to make techno, in otherwords, you have to become part of the tradition of music which comes out of black culture and speak/sing in a language that is not the language of the majority. (Of course there are other becomings, becomings-woman, becomings-animal, becomings-molecular...) a funky African rhythm, sensuous strings, a bird floating through the heavens, little particles of sound that hover in the air... /cyborg k _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
It's important to remember, Cyclone, that you're essentially describing a social 'norm' for Australia, North America and Europe. Actions and epithets of racism, oppression, religious purism and isolationism have been/are present everywhere, and have been/are present at nearly all times in 'history'. These actions and epithets are not exclusive to white males. Vince Woolums Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business 1 Concepts/words are not neutral, they are contested weapons which social forces use in struggles for power. There is no such thing as an objective/politically neutral linguistics, and meanings are not static. This is especially true of a loaded concept like racism. 2 From Deleuze and Guattari, A THOUSAND PLATEAUS, CAPITALISM AND SCHIZOPHRENIA, PP. 469-470 MINORITIES. Ours is becoming the age of minorities. We have seen several times that minorities are not necessarily defined by the smallness of their numbers but rather by becoming a line of fluctuation, in other words, by the gap that seperates them from this or that axiom constituting a redundant majority... Nonwhites would recieve no adequate expression by becoming a new yellow or black majority, an infinite denumerable set. What is proper to the minority is to assert a power of the nondenumerable, even if that minority is composed of a single member. That is the formula for multiplicities. Minority as a universal figure, or becoming everybody/everything. Woman: we all have to become that, whether we are male or female. Nonwhite: we all have to become that, whether we are white, yellow, or black. 3 In other words, the minority is defined by difference from a NORM, and that norm in our society exists as the WHITE ADULT MALE. Essential to institutionalized racism sexism is the measuring of a person's difference and Otherness from this norm; it is for that reason impossible for a black person to be racist in the same way as a white person, because the force of this norm (and the socio-historical conditions that have given risen to the norm) is not on their side. On the other hand, it is always possible, even for a white adult male, to enter into a process of becoming, and through this process to become something other than the norm. What is at stake here is Otherness itself, the power to not have a fixed identity but rather to experience life as an infinite journey. And at this point I'd like to say something controversial: you don't have to BE black to make techno, but one might say that, musically, you have to become-black in order to make techno, in otherwords, you have to become part of the tradition of music which comes out of black culture and speak/sing in a language that is not the language of the majority. (Of course there are other becomings, becomings-woman, becomings-animal, becomings-molecular...) a funky African rhythm, sensuous strings, a bird floating through the heavens, little particles of sound that hover in the air... /cyborg k _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
on 3/8/02 3:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3 In other words, the minority is defined by difference from a NORM, and that norm in our society exists as the WHITE ADULT MALE. Don't you ever call me Norm. ;-) -- im becoming (Nice post btw) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
I guess I must be speaking another language. no one called Atkins a racist as if any black person could ever be. no, you spoke english, but you messed it up bad. (I hope you dont mean the above) I keep meaning to leave this thread alone but you post something like this and I find myself typing again, this time between bouts of outright laughter. thank YOU - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Non-Sequitar. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
wow is this what I reduced you to? bravo on the brief display of education. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Non-Sequitar. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
LMAO. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
sorry to the list, this was not intended to be a public post. - Original Message - From: :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business wow is this what I reduced you to? bravo on the brief display of education. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Non-Sequitar. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Never ever trust any polls. Trust me! I am yet to see one with any credibility and I was actualy witness to one that wanted to reschuffle the list to put someone 'big' on top when the outcome pointed to an underground Detroit DJ as number one (the rock editor wanted and expected Fatboy Slim, and had never heard of this DJ). One UK based mag here did a 'poll' of most powerful people in the Australian music industry and all its big advertisers were given high listings! It was embarassing since key movers and shakers were left out. I always say you never see Mike Banks listed in polls of most influential players but in terms of business, culture and music his influence is greater than any of these flossy MFs, right? -- From: Alexandres Lugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 6:52 AM So is this list unfortunately;) i'm quite certain this poll is simply open to anyone who wishes to vote. obviously there are flaws, but what otehr gauge could you possibly use to judge what djs have the highest profile 'overall' On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, keleigh casper wrote: You'd think a 'journalist' would understand the bias associated with such a poll. Feel free to continue picking and choosing such ethics and standards as they suit your argument. That top-ten list could be renamed 'Biggest ads in Mixer' or similar. Again, if these Web-access priviledged, magazine-subscribing, MONEY-having consumers had access to other, WOULD THEY CHOOSE IT? And more importantly, how many of these ad-driven publications have even attempted to teach these new 'uunch uunch' music consumers that there is life after (and more importantly BEFORE) said blow-up djs with their faces plastered all over their mixes, etc (remember when you didnt know what a dj/producer looked like?). As mentioned before, the consumer holds the buying power--so why WOULD the Mixer Incs. of the world try to educate them about the indies, the unknows, the innovators that don't plaster their faces all over their mixes, don't live on Marketing Blvd.(relative i know) or more importantly, steer them toward musicians who LET THE MUSIC SPEAK FOR ITSELF? God forbid... neener neener neener From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:19:06 -0500 ever heard of, thedjlist can suck it? paul van oakenfag and sasha van digaho before hawtin? BAD BOY BILLLIEE in the mix.. live.. understand? PLUHHHLLLEEEAASSSEEE. gag me with a fucking 20inch penis. 1 TIESTO 8080 2 PAUL VAN DYK 6845 3 PAUL OAKENFOLD 5338 4 GEORGE ACOSTA 4607 5 SASHA 4181 6 JOHN DIGWEED 4036 7 BAD BOY BILL 2787 8 CARL COX 2767 9 MAURO PICOTTO 2735 10 IRENE - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business is everyone here familiar with thedjlist.com? its a website where anyone can go and vote for their favorite dj, any dj. cox is # 8 hawtin is #36 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
dont you fools know that the music knows no color? This is a lovely idealistic thought but you really can't isolate music in some kind of poetic vacuum. The music is a product of a certain cultural, social and economic hegemony and the circumstances determine whether it is heard or not and by whom. This affects people of colour making music, women making music, musicians in Second or Third World countries. There is incredible cutting-edge hip-hop style music coming out of South Africa but how many of us get to hear it? Instead this music is 'ghettoised' as 'World Music' or not disseminated at all. The thing is, by building support, some people can to a point intervene in this paradigm and I think many techno types have done this - look at how UR brilliantly handled the Rolando/Jaguar situation! Genius. In a pop paradigm I feel in different ways Madonna and Missy Misdemeanor Elliott really flipped the script for female artists. Juan has spoken of these issues in other interviews and he is always matter of fact about them. I personally feel there is validity to his arguments/heard some interesting things. But whether you agree or not, why can't we discuss them without getting personal? Actually I have forgotten what the original debate was about! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
I guess I approach this from standpoint of worldside music I just dont see a big racial element in techno. I've seen every kind and color of person at clubs and parties and everyone is cool with each other. I also have limited from a production/live show standpoint, and I think the whole scene is very easygoing in general. I'm sorry to clash with the list, but this seems so far from what I experience, I find it hard to believe. I CAN believe it though - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business dont you fools know that the music knows no color? This is a lovely idealistic thought but you really can't isolate music in some kind of poetic vacuum. The music is a product of a certain cultural, social and economic hegemony and the circumstances determine whether it is heard or not and by whom. This affects people of colour making music, women making music, musicians in Second or Third World countries. There is incredible cutting-edge hip-hop style music coming out of South Africa but how many of us get to hear it? Instead this music is 'ghettoised' as 'World Music' or not disseminated at all. The thing is, by building support, some people can to a point intervene in this paradigm and I think many techno types have done this - look at how UR brilliantly handled the Rolando/Jaguar situation! Genius. In a pop paradigm I feel in different ways Madonna and Missy Misdemeanor Elliott really flipped the script for female artists. Juan has spoken of these issues in other interviews and he is always matter of fact about them. I personally feel there is validity to his arguments/heard some interesting things. But whether you agree or not, why can't we discuss them without getting personal? Actually I have forgotten what the original debate was about! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
the music itself is about inclusivity. that's why I love it; we all can get together. it is the politics behind the mass dissemination of the music that's ugly. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Part of my post got deleted by accident but I meant to say that I have covered urban music (RB/hip-hop) AND techno/house for almost a decade and I have some incredible stories to tell of racism in the biz -I have the insider's advantage. Eg - in the mid 90s I would get interviews with big names like Mary J Blige and Jodeci and few mainstream mags wanted to run them as they disliked RB because they equated it with 'wog' kids (derogative term meaning 'germ' used to describe any non-Anglo person in Australia) who embraced Black American music - soul, RB, hip-hop, even house. This was despite the fact that the labels were advertising and these acts sold records. The best editors I had happened to be gay, and very politicised, and in the free street press, and so they were sensitive to prejudice of all kinds. Maybe I also see it as (a) female in a male industry (b) as ethnic Australian, my father was a political refugee from Eastern Europe and after 30 years still gets told to get home by neighbours. We sold our last house because a redneck neighbour broke my father's ribs when he dared to ask him to stop piling up sXXt against our fence. Funnily enough many Australians would get offended if you suggest that racism exists here! Without sounding corny, empathy is the way forward. We don't have to agree but if we try to listen to someone else's POV then we've made a connection. Being Ms Opinionated at times, I fail at this myself - but I try. :) There is a lot of good and music has brought people together but the prejudice is still there. Just ask any non white DJ about dealing with customs. -- From: :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 6:41 PM I guess I approach this from standpoint of worldside music I just dont see a big racial element in techno. I've seen every kind and color of person at clubs and parties and everyone is cool with each other. I also have limited from a production/live show standpoint, and I think the whole scene is very easygoing in general. I'm sorry to clash with the list, but this seems so far from what I experience, I find it hard to believe. I CAN believe it though - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business dont you fools know that the music knows no color? This is a lovely idealistic thought but you really can't isolate music in some kind of poetic vacuum. The music is a product of a certain cultural, social and economic hegemony and the circumstances determine whether it is heard or not and by whom. This affects people of colour making music, women making music, musicians in Second or Third World countries. There is incredible cutting-edge hip-hop style music coming out of South Africa but how many of us get to hear it? Instead this music is 'ghettoised' as 'World Music' or not disseminated at all. The thing is, by building support, some people can to a point intervene in this paradigm and I think many techno types have done this - look at how UR brilliantly handled the Rolando/Jaguar situation! Genius. In a pop paradigm I feel in different ways Madonna and Missy Misdemeanor Elliott really flipped the script for female artists. Juan has spoken of these issues in other interviews and he is always matter of fact about them. I personally feel there is validity to his arguments/heard some interesting things. But whether you agree or not, why can't we discuss them without getting personal? Actually I have forgotten what the original debate was about! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Hi there buddy, I wonder if u wouldn't mind answering a few simple questions: Do you like Techno? Do you like Detroit Techno/Music In general? Do you like Juan Atkins? Thanks a lot in anticipation - and have a great day. Kind regards, Ken -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:12 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business I guess I must be speaking another language. you must be, because the below statement was either translated incorrectly of the dumbest thing anyone has said on this list (in my humble opinion of course). no one called Atkins a racist as if any black person could ever be. its kinda ironic that comments like this are full on racist, and if made by a black person, simply proof that black people can be racist. _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[313]Regarding Business
Yes I have been reading all this bullshit about what I said or didn't say in my interview with xlr8r. Let's keep in mind that: 1) I did not go into xlr8r and hold a gun to the editor's head and make them interview me or put me on the cover, contrary to the haters (Poivrenoir, Yussel, Jayson B) belief. Apparently, I must be currently doing, and/or saying something of some status/substance to warrant a recent cover story on their mag. Regardless to how young I am or how long I've been making records. 2) There are always two view points or angles in every interview. The one of the interviewer, and the one of the interviewee. Sometimes the two do not always coincide, and remember, the interviewer always has the final word and the power of the edit to make an interview look anyway he/she wants. I'm not saying that the interviewer didn't do a great job on this piece, but I probably would have edited a couple of things differently, because there are always, always a mistake or two. 3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? or that Oakee or Digweed are so commercially viable. I can't recall hearing any of their records (that they actually made) on the radio ? Maybe I'm wrong ? someone please correct me if I am. 4) And please give me credit for having enough scruples to know the difference between racism and an artist that can't be broke, and for having enough balls to speak on it when it affects my bottom line. Thank God for XLR8R - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
Hi Juan I am from the UK and I have been watching this back and forth quarrell between everyone and I have to say I am amazed and a little upset. Is everyone just into slagging everyone off on this 313? I cannot believe the amount of people that like to put people down and like to say who's better than who. Crickey isn't it obvious to poeple that music is a personal thing, why does everyone have to make such a big thing about it. You alos seem to be at the front of this arguement, I am not sucking up as probably some of you would imagine ( in fact those people please, as you lot would say, Don't even go there!) I just feel sorry for you man, you always get a dig someway or another. Man can't people just get on with there on lives and stop worrying about others, cos I am sure we are all big and ugly enough to.. So yet again it a shame to see this 313 get to a point of no return.. Who shall we slag of next eh? come on I know there's someone out there that feels life is not important unless we all argue I hope the 313 doesn't become a 666 ..:0) -Original Message- From: JuanAtkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2002 10:46 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313]Regarding Business Yes I have been reading all this bullshit about what I said or didn't say in my interview with xlr8r. Let's keep in mind that: 1) I did not go into xlr8r and hold a gun to the editor's head and make them interview me or put me on the cover, contrary to the haters (Poivrenoir, Yussel, Jayson B) belief. Apparently, I must be currently doing, and/or saying something of some status/substance to warrant a recent cover story on their mag. Regardless to how young I am or how long I've been making records. 2) There are always two view points or angles in every interview. The one of the interviewer, and the one of the interviewee. Sometimes the two do not always coincide, and remember, the interviewer always has the final word and the power of the edit to make an interview look anyway he/she wants. I'm not saying that the interviewer didn't do a great job on this piece, but I probably would have edited a couple of things differently, because there are always, always a mistake or two. 3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? or that Oakee or Digweed are so commercially viable. I can't recall hearing any of their records (that they actually made) on the radio ? Maybe I'm wrong ? someone please correct me if I am. 4) And please give me credit for having enough scruples to know the difference between racism and an artist that can't be broke, and for having enough balls to speak on it when it affects my bottom line. Thank God for XLR8R - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
i dont the point being raised was 'which dj is the best' it was to do with which was the most well known, i would agree that carl cox certainly has a hugely higher profile than hawtin in the uk. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 March 2002 19:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business ever heard of, thedjlist can suck it? paul van oakenfag and sasha van digaho before hawtin? BAD BOY BILLLIEE in the mix.. live.. understand? PLUHHHLLLEEEAASSSEEE. gag me with a fucking 20inch penis. 1 TIESTO 8080 2 PAUL VAN DYK 6845 3 PAUL OAKENFOLD 5338 4 GEORGE ACOSTA 4607 5 SASHA 4181 6 JOHN DIGWEED 4036 7 BAD BOY BILL 2787 8 CARL COX 2767 9 MAURO PICOTTO 2735 10 IRENE - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business is everyone here familiar with thedjlist.com? its a website where anyone can go and vote for their favorite dj, any dj. cox is # 8 hawtin is #36 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
Is it me or has it gone a little quiet? Oh well, must be just a lull. Great minds never rest! By the way Jayson B, my good man, I've yet to get answers to those little questions. Surely, no, it can't mean that if perhaps the answer is 'No' to most or all of the questions, you might be happier elsewhere (just my humble opinion of course - ever concerned about your comfort and welfare as I am :o) In case you've forgotten, here they are again: Do you like Techno? Do you like Detroit Techno/Music In general? Do you like Juan Atkins? Thanks a lot in anticipation - and have a great day. I remain, your truest friend Ken -Original Message- From: JuanAtkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:46 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313]Regarding Business Yes I have been reading all this bullshit about what I said or didn't say in my interview with xlr8r. Let's keep in mind that: 1) I did not go into xlr8r and hold a gun to the editor's head and make them interview me or put me on the cover, contrary to the haters (Poivrenoir, Yussel, Jayson B) belief. Apparently, I must be currently doing, and/or saying something of some status/substance to warrant a recent cover story on their mag. Regardless to how young I am or how long I've been making records. 2) There are always two view points or angles in every interview. The one of the interviewer, and the one of the interviewee. Sometimes the two do not always coincide, and remember, the interviewer always has the final word and the power of the edit to make an interview look anyway he/she wants. I'm not saying that the interviewer didn't do a great job on this piece, but I probably would have edited a couple of things differently, because there are always, always a mistake or two. 3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? or that Oakee or Digweed are so commercially viable. I can't recall hearing any of their records (that they actually made) on the radio ? Maybe I'm wrong ? someone please correct me if I am. 4) And please give me credit for having enough scruples to know the difference between racism and an artist that can't be broke, and for having enough balls to speak on it when it affects my bottom line. Thank God for XLR8R - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
i dont the point being raised was 'which dj is the best' it was to do with which was the most well known, i would agree that carl cox certainly has a hugely higher profile than hawtin in the uk. this one is gone from one way to another, from racial problems to who is better dj, and who is what , and how is who working on the scene. i cant say juan atkins is super dj, he didnt play in croatia , and i didnt have chace to hear him. on richie i can say that man can do miracle on turntables and music, and everything is just like it should be. but on another hand juan is to me much more better producer then richie will ever be. but that is my opinon. on that dj side i have juan`s mix from mastermix series and i enjoy it everytime, ist not mixed perfect, and i dont need that, but music is perfect. so that who is better or not, it all depends on that in what part of world you are living. over here rush, mills, hawtin, are all big stars, everytime when they come, you can expect 2000 ppl or more, no problem. and about racial problems, i had few weeks ago discussion on that topic with Badi and Phonopsia, and we didnt get some explicit conclusion. we agreed that there could be a problem, and i said could be, because at most of time you dont have proof that somebody is ditched beacuse he is black. i agree that can happen, but anybody heard someone from big label said he cant get contract beacuse he is black. and im not trying to defend anybody hear. i just want to say that we are spending lot of energy on conspirasy theory. and in this topic, we have break the quota of used energy for nothing. maybe there is just plain problem that techno will never be so popular like rock, or hip hop, and that big contracts will never be usual in techno music, or maybe contracts will be usual , in 10 years from now. nobody can tell streight what is going on. and i agree with atkins on topic about interviews, you can tell one thing, but you cant be sure that your words will be putt just as you said themone little word and whole concept is lost i hope nobody will get me wrong here. b. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business - get with it
I just wanted to make a few side remarks about your view on the situation here in Europe. I once did an interview with Jeff Mills where he explained why he affoids spinnin' in the UK: too much trouble with racist customs officers when entering the country. he even swore he would never spin there again. i'm not in a position to tell if the situation in europe is better or worse than in america, but i personally think that's beside the point. it's definitely also a problem on this side of the atlantic. but you just can't take the situation of black people in europe as a reference point. the comparison's wrong. In europe there are other racial problems but they are created by exactly the same mechanisms. Here in Belgium we have a large group of people who migrated from countries like Morocco and Turkey back in the fifties, but I have yet to see one dj with north-african roots spinnin' at a local party, no matter how small, let alone that I can think of one hot shot dj with north african roots. and I think that is a question of skin colour and opportunities, of the exclusion of a large part of the population from popular culture (can't think of a migrant talk show host or sex icon either for that matter). yesterday one out of three people in Rotterdam voted for a right-wing conservatist who's constantly been making racist remarks about muslims. the same thing happened in my town (Antwerp) a few years ago. Where I live north african youths get pulled over by police everyday just because they are north africans. so you're right: europe is not Wonderland, not at all. koen --- BEATS @ KindaMuzik http://www.kindamuzik.net/beats -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: woensdag 6 maart 2002 23:48 Aan: 313@hyperreal.org Onderwerp: Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it who is that carl cox figure. fat ass dj running intec nothing special clap clap clap: there ya go! I certainly didn't see richie in a commercial in europe where he's got an apron on and mixing batter in a bowl in a kitchen, promoting some mix cd or club night. Hold on there - you are comparing apples and oranges now. You are refering to a commercial that ran in Europe where people tend to be a bit more open minded about the arts - music included, and therefore about the people who create the arts - ie. Carl Cox Yeah, Cox leans toward a populist audience but when I've seen him play in Minneapolis he really went balls out with the techno - and you should all know by now how rare a techno artist comes here. So I think he knows what he's doing and staying true to himself. Juan Atkins - no offense to the man for I do respect him greatly - has not shown up for the last two event that I was aware he was supposed to attend here (no explanation was given by either the promoter or the artists camp so who knows what happened). You can't help but start thinking twice about going to see him again - will he show or won't he? Just for the record - I'll go because he just might show up and rock the place. I think I'm digressing but everything is so confused at the moment I can't tell for sure. Since I live in the US where the arts are slashed out of school programs and the tight ass right wing politicians attack it for, *gasp*, challenging their perspectives, I don't see either Richie or Carl Cox in a commerical - I hear Juan (Ford Focus) but I see and hear Moby (Nordstroms/SciFi channel)! Ah this thread is running in nasty evil circles! Plus - Carl Cox is a black man and I thought this was an issue of skin color and opportunity - though *maybe* (this is an assumption I am making not based on any facts of his life that I know) he's had it easier living across the ocean - seems like Jeff Mills, Claude Young and a slew of other black American artists always have (all the be-bop jazz artists for example). That's why they go there to play and live - it's easier for them and I don't blame them if they do. What would you rather do - stay some place where it never seems to get sorted out or go where people are going to respect you for who you are - not what color your skin is. I'm not saying that Europe is Wonderland - its got its problems with racial issues too but obviously if some of these cats are going there to live they must be doing something better there than we are here. Has Claude Young ever spoken about the differences between living in Detroit and living in Glasgow? I'd be interested in reading/hearing what he has to say. We shouldn't confuse this very important topic - it's not about if you are underground or if you are from Europe - if Carl Cox came to live in the US he'd probably run a greater chance of getting pulled over by a cop because he is black. The issue is being black and living in the land of the free. Stop arguing over personal shit - take it off list. Let's get with the program
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Although i have no clue where you're going with this list of pointless questions, i'll still reply. I hate it when people dismiss my posts as nonsense and ignore what i'm saying, so i won't do that to you, although its still a waste of my time. Do you like Techno? Of course. I adore techno. Techno moves my soul like nothing else on the planet. I listen to it when i get up in the morning, i listen to it on the way to work, i listen to it AT work, and i produce it when i'm at home. its a 24/7 love affair. Do you like Detroit Techno/Music In general? Even more so than techno as its own sub genre. For some reason, music produced in this lovely city takes on its own life like nothing else in this world. its a very special feeling, as you should know. Do you like Juan Atkins? I think as a producer he is one of the best EVER, regardless of his 'godfather' type status. He is an amazing producer and will always be an amazing producer. The boy doesn't have a load of cash and a sponsorship from Korg for nothing. at the same time, i also don't usually go to shows that he's booked at, since all you're paying for is to have the promoter list juan as a no show when you walk to the door. Juan has a HORRIBLE reputation for this, and that is simply noone's fault but it own. Just because i might disagree with juan or ANYBODY on racial standpoints doesn't mean i can't adore their music. I'm assuming this was where your email was going, but who knows considering. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Great to hear from you Jayson - been awaiting your reply, all day. Hope your day is going well. Whilst the questions are offered light-heartedly (and I hope you also noted, with studied courtesy) there is a serious intent, from the point of view of techno lovers on this list. It's simply nice to hear you say you actually like Detroit techno and for that matter, techno after your unfavourable comments on the same. More importantly, it's very heartening to hear you say something courteous about Juan Atkins after many so many posts punctuated with expletives and near-virulent abuse of the man. Juan Atkins is not a God, but he's a man who many here have a great and deep respect for. To me Juan Atkins is at least analogous to Miles Davis as an artist, and a human being. He also has a commensurate dollop of downside too, just like Miles Davis - he aint perfect. You appear to have little sympathy with the reasoning which Juan and many others here, have voiced about race and the music industry. Of course again, you're entitled to such. But your mode of expression is so venomous at times it more than verges on the insulting. I seem to remember that you're famous around here too, for your 'stupid nigger' remark. You're entitled to think/feel that way of course, but the logic of venting your views in this particular forum escapes me, and many. Even now however, I'm prepared to accept that you mean well. But the only conclusion anyone could come to if you continue in the same vein from here on, is that your deliberate aim is to insult artists and list members and as I said elsewhere, anyone who doesn't agree with you. Ultimately that may not matter a great deal to most of us (although many will continue to get irrate) but my experience is that these kind of things always matter to the instigating individual mid-to-long term, in subtle and sometimes quite direct ways. This is quite apart from the fact that you are wasting your time and will eventually be simply ignored. To be ignored is no great shame. Except when you wish to use the list as a resource that is. Of course your opinion is very important indeed, but the fact is, that you have managed to express things in such a way that the net impresson many have about you and your your views, until now, has been a negative one. Anyway, do what you like. My greatest pleasure today is simply prompting you to say something (anything frankly) that's positive! All the best, Ken -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:38 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Although i have no clue where you're going with this list of pointless questions, i'll still reply. I hate it when people dismiss my posts as nonsense and ignore what i'm saying, so i won't do that to you, although its still a waste of my time. Do you like Techno? Of course. I adore techno. Techno moves my soul like nothing else on the planet. I listen to it when i get up in the morning, i listen to it on the way to work, i listen to it AT work, and i produce it when i'm at home. its a 24/7 love affair. Do you like Detroit Techno/Music In general? Even more so than techno as its own sub genre. For some reason, music produced in this lovely city takes on its own life like nothing else in this world. its a very special feeling, as you should know. Do you like Juan Atkins? I think as a producer he is one of the best EVER, regardless of his 'godfather' type status. He is an amazing producer and will always be an amazing producer. The boy doesn't have a load of cash and a sponsorship from Korg for nothing. at the same time, i also don't usually go to shows that he's booked at, since all you're paying for is to have the promoter list juan as a no show when you walk to the door. Juan has a HORRIBLE reputation for this, and that is simply noone's fault but it own. Just because i might disagree with juan or ANYBODY on racial standpoints doesn't mean i can't adore their music. I'm assuming this was where your email was going, but who knows considering. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
on 7/3/02 3:41 pm, Odeluga, Ken at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seem to remember that you're famous around here too, for your 'stupid nigger' remark. the same way lauryn is famous for her brit-faggots remark. oh, but sorry, that was some kind of geographical communication bullshit that us british faggots should really take into consideration, shouldn't we? i mean, that's the way REAL techno lovers talk, isn't it? give him a break - he was trying to prove a point at the time (that to some of us the word faggot is just as offensive as the word nigger). get things in context and don't be so god damned reactionary. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
I see everyones still at it... anyone got anything interesting to say? Anyopne looking forwward to LOST this month? -Original Message- From: Tim Maughan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2002 15:48 To: Odeluga, Ken; Jayson B.; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business on 7/3/02 3:41 pm, Odeluga, Ken at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seem to remember that you're famous around here too, for your 'stupid nigger' remark. the same way lauryn is famous for her brit-faggots remark. oh, but sorry, that was some kind of geographical communication bullshit that us british faggots should really take into consideration, shouldn't we? i mean, that's the way REAL techno lovers talk, isn't it? give him a break - he was trying to prove a point at the time (that to some of us the word faggot is just as offensive as the word nigger). get things in context and don't be so god damned reactionary. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Right-said-phred!..part deux From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:35:39 -0800 Pouvrenoir: You have your opinion. But there is plenty in what you say that should be challenged. Oakenfold may speak to more people with his music, but then by that criteria we all ought to drop all of this and just talk about N Sync, Brittney and U2, because they talk to the most people of all. Juan Atkins doesn't have to pull the race card. You say that like it's some kind of trick or excuse. How about considering that it represents *reality*. It's certainly not going to do his career much good with the industry and the public to have his picture on the cover of XLR8R with that being the main theme. Your position seems to be that if the man's observations about two decades of personal experience makes bystanders uncomfortable, then there is something wrong with that. The point that Juan makes that speaks the loudest to me, anyway, is that despite all the changes in our society, the structure of the music industry and how it promotes the attitude of racial separation is *still with us* -- 40 years after Miles Davis was talking about exactly the same thing. Take a look in a record chain store the next time you're there. How many of them relegate urban contemporary (i.e., song-oriented styles by African American artists) to a separate section from rock. And yet much of the top-selling rock has much the same instrumentation, lyrical style and so on. As for there not being a racial divide in electronic music, as if it's different than the music business in general, that may be the key issue here. And my observation is, it's more true now than it was a decade ago. The audience, the labels, the promotion, the events are all highly segregated now in electronic music. There are subgenres where this is less the case, like Detroit techno itself. As for UR, they are certainly NOT anti anything not black. Only those who are not paying attention would believe that. I also don't see UR trying to monopolize the spotlight -- quite the opposite, in fact. I was very pleased to see them come in as sponsors of the Porter St. weekly after a long period where they have not been very visible in the Detroit scene. Finally, as for DEMF being a promo package for Planet E, KMS and Metroplex, I completely disagree. If you look at the two years of DEMF, there are some who have been left out that should be included (AO and Rob Hood, to begin with, and I'd also like to see Billeebob who I have unfortunately never seen play, and people like Dwayne Jensen and Reggie Dokes and the others who have been around for a long time doing a good job on the decks, as well as some of the lesser known DJs from the UR crew -- and there are still some 313 list members who need their time in the spotlight!). But the one thing that stands out is the breadth and depth of the artist lineup that Carl Craig put together. It really has been the finest of Detroit. And I'm not wrong about this, and I am not out of touch with the Detroit scene. phred - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Tim Maugham: the same way lauryn is famous for her brit-faggots remark. oh, but sorry, that was some kind of geographical communication bullshit that us british faggots should really take into consideration, shouldn't we? i mean, that's the way REAL techno lovers talk, isn't it? give him a break - he was trying to prove a point at the time (that to some of us the word faggot is just as offensive as the word nigger). get things in context and don't be so god damned reactionary. Sigh. Addressed this already - you choose to ignore that or were not listening. I challenge you to place the geographical communication excuse at my or anyone else's door I am aware of - In fact I said those remarks were (and they remain)- quote - More than regretable. Further, I'd say they're inexcusable really. However, I wondered how those offensive remarks of Ms Gavoor, invalidated the other stuff Laura Gavoor said. Still have yet to get a cogent non-insulting, non inflammatory response that actually answers that question. A more cynical man than me would conclude that the object is NOT to answer the question but basically to just trade insults between camps of opposing views (ok, I'm being ironic). If you''re tired of the debate, ignore it. No problems. Let those interested in engaging with the issues argue it out. Sorry it goes to your inbox, can't do anything about that though, it is a mailing list after all. Best regards, Ken -Original Message- From: Tim Maughan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:48 PM To: Odeluga, Ken; Jayson B.; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business on 7/3/02 3:41 pm, Odeluga, Ken at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seem to remember that you're famous around here too, for your 'stupid nigger' remark. the same way lauryn is famous for her brit-faggots remark. oh, but sorry, that was some kind of geographical communication bullshit that us british faggots should really take into consideration, shouldn't we? i mean, that's the way REAL techno lovers talk, isn't it? give him a break - he was trying to prove a point at the time (that to some of us the word faggot is just as offensive as the word nigger). get things in context and don't be so god damned reactionary. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Racism is a system of insitutionalized discrimination against one group by another. Under this system in America white skin and whiteness is accorded certain priveiliges. It comes from a historical precedent set by North American chattel slavery where whites owned so called black people. The Civil Rights Movement was about African-Americans earning their rights to be treated as full citizens of a country we continue to build. Juan Atkins is African-American. His decisions can not affect the lives of whole groups of people thus he can not be a racist. Ever heard of Cornel West? bell hooks? Manning Marable? Martin Luther King? Michael Eric Dyson?? Or how about Screamin' Jay Hawkins? Ike Turner? Wyonnie Harris? Little RIchard or my personal favorite Jimi Hendrix? My name is not buddy it's Tamara and if you have a problem with me you can address me by Ms. Harris. Apparently some people on this list need to go back to Reading Comprehension 101 and re-read Juan's interview. And it also sounds like many people here need to do some Black (because this a social construct people are named by their geographies although in the '60's the term was appropriated) and white history studies of the United States. I can not say that I like Juan Atkins because I don't know him personally but I do love his music. I have been a fan of Detroit Techno since I heard Cosmic Car as a kid listening to the radio and Mojo. Tamara Harris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
man.. it really sounds strange all this talking of you guys about the skin of people.. i dont know what that english protestant preachers talked to you 500 years ago, but it must have been freaky.. i wish i could help you to stop considering those kind of particularitys betwen people. i dont know what to say.. research about some other cultures, try to figure it out what a big problem.. i hope u all in america can find a solution to it. love, henrique. -- Mensagem original --- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cc : Data: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:32:40 EST Assunto : Re: [313] Regarding Business Racism is a system of insitutionalized discrimination against one group by another. Under this system in America white skin and whiteness is accorded certain priveiliges. It comes from a historical precedent set by North American chattel slavery where whites owned so called black people. The Civil Rights Movement was about African-Americans earning their rights to be treated as full citizens of a country we continue to build. Juan Atkins is African-American. His decisions can not affect the lives of whole groups of people thus he can not be a racist. Ever heard of Cornel West? bell hooks? Manning Marable? Martin Luther King? Michael Eric Dyson?? Or how about Screamin' Jay Hawkins? Ike Turner? Wyonnie Harris? Little RIchard or my personal favorite Jimi Hendrix? My name is not buddy it's Tamara and if you have a problem with me you can address me by Ms. Harris. Apparently some people on this list need to go back to Reading Comprehension 101 and re-read Juan's interview. And it also sounds like many people here need to do some Black (because this a social construct people are named by their geographies although in the '60's the term was appropriated) and white history studies of the United States. I can not say that I like Juan Atkins because I don't know him personally but I do love his music. I have been a fan of Detroit Techno since I heard Cosmic Car as a kid listening to the radio and Mojo. Tamara Harris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] henrique casanova S.O.M. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
I wish we did live in colorblind world like that. that's why I love house and techno; it unites people on the dancefloor. Tamara Harris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
:) A little humbling lesson to everyone :) Thank you, Juan -Original Message- From: JuanAtkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 5:46 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313]Regarding Business Yes I have been reading all this bullshit about what I said or didn't say in my interview with xlr8r. Let's keep in mind that: 1) I did not go into xlr8r and hold a gun to the editor's head and make them interview me or put me on the cover, contrary to the haters (Poivrenoir, Yussel, Jayson B) belief. Apparently, I must be currently doing, and/or saying something of some status/substance to warrant a recent cover story on their mag. Regardless to how young I am or how long I've been making records. 2) There are always two view points or angles in every interview. The one of the interviewer, and the one of the interviewee. Sometimes the two do not always coincide, and remember, the interviewer always has the final word and the power of the edit to make an interview look anyway he/she wants. I'm not saying that the interviewer didn't do a great job on this piece, but I probably would have edited a couple of things differently, because there are always, always a mistake or two. 3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? or that Oakee or Digweed are so commercially viable. I can't recall hearing any of their records (that they actually made) on the radio ? Maybe I'm wrong ? someone please correct me if I am. 4) And please give me credit for having enough scruples to know the difference between racism and an artist that can't be broke, and for having enough balls to speak on it when it affects my bottom line. Thank God for XLR8R - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
i dont know what that english protestant preachers talked to you 500 years ago, English? Where? Just kidding ;) If this isn't an attempt to bring RELIGION as well as RACE into the debate, I don't know what is... TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.mp313.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events)
I'm going to change the subject now to suit my needs :) in case anyone cares, I have a track up at from a recent show (pardon my lack of webpage for the record company site, I dont have time right now with school and all.) its a little rough but let me know what you think http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/dont%20feed%20me%20after%2012%20because%20 bitch,%20Im%20a%20gremlin.mp3 its called dont feed me after 12 because bitch, Im a gremlin I will also be playing some live sets in lower michigan this month I think, march 22nd for a 3 hour live PA on wcbn ann arbor (12am-3am) www.wcbn.org/listen.html for a webcast or 88.3 if you are in the area. Rabbits (are you still on list?) will be there too, so be sure to listen and see how we melt down 2 styles and create the mold from which all future techno will be created :P Thanks for reading -Joe negative-saucer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business (coming events)
link doesn't work?? -Original Message- From: :P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2002 17:26 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) I'm going to change the subject now to suit my needs :) in case anyone cares, I have a track up at from a recent show (pardon my lack of webpage for the record company site, I dont have time right now with school and all.) its a little rough but let me know what you think http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/dont%20feed%20me%20after%2012%20because%20 bitch,%20Im%20a%20gremlin.mp3 its called dont feed me after 12 because bitch, Im a gremlin I will also be playing some live sets in lower michigan this month I think, march 22nd for a 3 hour live PA on wcbn ann arbor (12am-3am) www.wcbn.org/listen.html for a webcast or 88.3 if you are in the area. Rabbits (are you still on list?) will be there too, so be sure to listen and see how we melt down 2 styles and create the mold from which all future techno will be created :P Thanks for reading -Joe negative-saucer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Yeah but we'd run all the red lights :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org cc: 03/07/02 10:54 AMSubject: Re: [313] Regarding Business I wish we did live in colorblind world like that. that's why I love house and techno; it unites people on the dancefloor. Tamara Harris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events)
grr the damn email client split the link up. I renamed the track for downloads sake: http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/truncate%20my%20link%20baby.mp3 Thanks for listening! -Joe - Original Message - From: Ian Cheshire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ':P' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) link doesn't work?? -Original Message- From: :P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2002 17:26 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) I'm going to change the subject now to suit my needs :) in case anyone cares, I have a track up at from a recent show (pardon my lack of webpage for the record company site, I dont have time right now with school and all.) its a little rough but let me know what you think http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/dont%20feed%20me%20after%2012%20because%20 bitch,%20Im%20a%20gremlin.mp3 its called dont feed me after 12 because bitch, Im a gremlin I will also be playing some live sets in lower michigan this month I think, march 22nd for a 3 hour live PA on wcbn ann arbor (12am-3am) www.wcbn.org/listen.html for a webcast or 88.3 if you are in the area. Rabbits (are you still on list?) will be there too, so be sure to listen and see how we melt down 2 styles and create the mold from which all future techno will be created :P Thanks for reading -Joe negative-saucer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events)
www.makeashorterlink.com On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, :P wrote: grr the damn email client split the link up. I renamed the track for downloads sake: http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/truncate%20my%20link%20baby.mp3 Thanks for listening! -Joe - Original Message - From: Ian Cheshire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ':P' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) link doesn't work?? -Original Message- From: :P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2002 17:26 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) I'm going to change the subject now to suit my needs :) in case anyone cares, I have a track up at from a recent show (pardon my lack of webpage for the record company site, I dont have time right now with school and all.) its a little rough but let me know what you think http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/dont%20feed%20me%20after%2012%20because%20 bitch,%20Im%20a%20gremlin.mp3 its called dont feed me after 12 because bitch, Im a gremlin I will also be playing some live sets in lower michigan this month I think, march 22nd for a 3 hour live PA on wcbn ann arbor (12am-3am) www.wcbn.org/listen.html for a webcast or 88.3 if you are in the area. Rabbits (are you still on list?) will be there too, so be sure to listen and see how we melt down 2 styles and create the mold from which all future techno will be created :P Thanks for reading -Joe negative-saucer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- - - the subliminal thought for the day is: --- - - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events)
you rock. thanks -Joe - Original Message - From: doris non-woo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) www.makeashorterlink.com On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, :P wrote: grr the damn email client split the link up. I renamed the track for downloads sake: http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/truncate%20my%20link%20baby.mp3 Thanks for listening! -Joe - Original Message - From: Ian Cheshire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ':P' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) link doesn't work?? -Original Message- From: :P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2002 17:26 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business (coming events) I'm going to change the subject now to suit my needs :) in case anyone cares, I have a track up at from a recent show (pardon my lack of webpage for the record company site, I dont have time right now with school and all.) its a little rough but let me know what you think http://www.emmrecords.com/teh_fux/dont%20feed%20me%20after%2012%20because%20 bitch,%20Im%20a%20gremlin.mp3 its called dont feed me after 12 because bitch, Im a gremlin I will also be playing some live sets in lower michigan this month I think, march 22nd for a 3 hour live PA on wcbn ann arbor (12am-3am) www.wcbn.org/listen.html for a webcast or 88.3 if you are in the area. Rabbits (are you still on list?) will be there too, so be sure to listen and see how we melt down 2 styles and create the mold from which all future techno will be created :P Thanks for reading -Joe negative-saucer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- - - the subliminal thought for the day is: --- - - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
It's simply nice to hear you say you actually like Detroit techno and for that matter, techno after your unfavourable comments on the same. I_have_never_once_made_negative_comments_about_techno. Not one single time. I have made comments about people who find themselves to be techno elite, and they're horribly arrogant and vain attitudes that causes them to feel like they are far above normal humans. but i have never, nor will i ever, pretend that techno is not my love. More importantly, it's very heartening to hear you say something courteous about Juan Atkins after many so many posts punctuated with expletives and near-virulent abuse of the man. when did i ever say ANYTHING bad about juan? the only thing that i've said about the man directly is that he simply does not show up for gigs. I haven't perpetuated the rumors as to why, or posted my own theories. His choice for not showing up to signed shows may be his choice, but it affects *me* and my choice to pay to see him. but i haven't said anything else negative about him once. feel free to reread anything that i said, and if you can find direct quoetes that contradict what i just said, feel free to correct me. but he's a man who many here have a great and deep respect for. many people all over the world love and adore the man. He is an icon. And *that* is my point. But your mode of expression is so venomous at times it more than verges on the insulting. that's because at times its meant to be insulting. I seem to remember that you're famous around here too, for your 'stupid nigger' remark. as someone posted earlier, you obviously took that comment WAY out of context, as i explained FULLY why i made that comment in the next paragraph. is that your deliberate aim is to insult artists and list members and as I said elsewhere, anyone who doesn't agree with you. people find it insulting when someone disagrees with them, especially strongly. I can say the same thing about people on this list; i post my opinion, they disagree with it, and everyone's panties get soaked. This is quite apart from the fact that you are wasting your time and will eventually be simply ignored. To be ignored is no great shame. Except when you wish to use the list as a resource that is. Why is it that when someone doesn't post on a daily basis, they must not being using the list? I read every single post made to this list, and i find them all highly valuable. I only post on subjects that i feel the need to post on. net impresson many have about you and your your views, until now, has been a negative one. negative only because i disagree with what they say. Its interesting, because my main arguement is a positive one: just enjoy the music, and let the bullshit slide. people on this list have a duality when it comes to techno; they despise mainstream music, yet they want their techno superstars to BE the mainstream. one or the other kids. Anyway, do what you like. My greatest pleasure today is simply prompting you to say something (anything frankly) that's positive! why do i feel that your email is unbelievably sarcastic? _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Further, I'd say they're inexcusable really. However, I wondered how those offensive remarks of Ms Gavoor, invalidated the other stuff Laura Gavoor said. Still have yet to get a cogent non-insulting, non inflammatory response that actually answers that question. Hi ken! i'm so very glad for your response, and i can't wait to provide you with a non-insulting positive response of my own! It depends on ms gavoor's full opinion of discrimination. if she feels strongly about people getting discriminated against, then it DOES invalidate her response. In that context, having her say ,'discrimination sucks,' and then turning around and saying the word 'faggot,' is 100% contradictory. it causes the reader to believe that she does not believe in her own views. Or if she feels that only black people are discriminated against, or that black people are the only ones worthy of a sympathetic shoulder when it comes to discrimination, then i'll shut up. but i still find the word faggot offensive. Hope to hear from you soon ken, and have a great day! _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Why not take this stuff off the list, do I need to read this? That's a rhetorical question. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 -- From: Jayson B. Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2002 1:05 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Further, I'd say they're inexcusable really. However, I wondered how those offensive remarks of Ms Gavoor, invalidated the other stuff Laura Gavoor said. Still have yet to get a cogent non-insulting, non inflammatory response that actually answers that question. Hi ken! i'm so very glad for your response, and i can't wait to provide you with a non-insulting positive response of my own! It depends on ms gavoor's full opinion of discrimination. if she feels strongly about people getting discriminated against, then it DOES invalidate her response. In that context, having her say ,'discrimination sucks,' and then turning around and saying the word 'faggot,' is 100% contradictory. it causes the reader to believe that she does not believe in her own views. Or if she feels that only black people are discriminated against, or that black people are the only ones worthy of a sympathetic shoulder when it comes to discrimination, then i'll shut up. but i still find the word faggot offensive. Hope to hear from you soon ken, and have a great day! _ Join the world ' s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
I think its time for a group hug. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Can you all say back-pedal. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
Yes I have been reading all this bullshit about what I said or didn't say in my interview with xlr8r I'm glad to see that you're reading all this. it amazes me sometimes how many high profile people are on this list and actively reading it. I'll still continue to speak my mind on you or anyone else who puts their profile out for public display. When you have the fame to have a magazine ask for a interview, you should expect people to speak their mind on what you've said. I can't STAND IT when people tell me, stopping talking about dj x, he's not here to defend himself. Of COURSE he's not here to reply, he's a dj. He's busy doing dj things. The fact of the matter is, when you choose to make yourself a public figure, *expect* the public to make and voice their opinion about you. In my humble opinion (and since i'm semi-jealously not in your position, i may not have much room to talk), if i was in the high profile position of being able to make my music daily without the need of another job, and having people contact ME for a gig instead of the other way around, i would do one of two things with the comments that a little techno producer on a web list is making: 1. ignore them completely if they pissed me off. or 2. take them to heart, and see if there is some validity to them. You are in the public eye. You are an icon to hundreds of thousands of people all over the world. You have the ability to pracically walk into any club in the world and tell THEM that you're spinning that night, for the mere fact that you are juan atkins. People simply will talk about you, and that doesn't make them playa haters. that makes me someone with an opinion. 1) I did not go into xlr8r and hold a gun to the editor's head and make them interview me or put me on the cover, contrary to the haters never said that. Like i said, being the great producer that you are, you have the fantastic ability of people chasing after you for an interview. and so you chose to put your opinion in a big spread in a magazine, which then entitles me to speak my opinion in response as well. Apparently, I must be currently doing, and/or saying something of some status/substance to warrant a recent cover story on their mag. Wouldn't disagree with this whatsoever. you *are* juan atkins, and i certainly am not. 3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? hehe. new jack playa haters. I have a my newest song's title now. Pretending to be an authority and stating an opinion are two different things juan. or that Oakee or Digweed are so commercially viable. they are commercially viable. that's why oaktree has commercials on mtv, and does all those faboo remixes for the popstars. but you have more integrity than that right? or is it the fact that you are black, they are white, and if you were white you'd be doing all the things they do? All this time I though juan atkins was an artist, making fantastic music and (when you showed up for a gig) putting on great dj performances, and that juan atkins had more pride in his music than the sellout cheeseballs. was i wrong? I can't recall hearing any of their records (that they actually made) on the radio ? Maybe I'm wrong ? someone please correct me if I am. ok, maybe i am getting confused, and i'd love some clarification. What *is* your stance on commercial music? do you feel that they although they cater to the masses, that you do it better? or do you feel that you simply write a better form of music, even though its obviously not as accessable to the mainstream? 4) And please give me credit I'll give you credit till i'm blue in the face. I've said it a billion times in this email; you *are* juan atkins, and that means a fuckload more than being jayson b to the entire world of electronic music. but i'll still speak my mind about you. that won't change. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
You have the ability to pracically walk into any club in the world and tell THEM that you're spinning that night, for the mere fact that you are juan atkins. That's assuming a lot. I do hope you were exaggerating. MEK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
PLEASE MAKE IT STOP. PLEASE. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2002 2:04 PM To: Jayson B. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313]Regarding Business You have the ability to pracically walk into any club in the world and tell THEM that you're spinning that night, for the mere fact that you are juan atkins. That's assuming a lot. I do hope you were exaggerating. MEK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? I wonder if Juan really get's all these 313 posts or if someone just tells him when people are talking about him? It seems like he only responds when people are talking smack, giving them a verbal beat-down. hehehe TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.mp313.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it
in the following countries with NO HELP from anyone: China, Australia, Japan, Spain, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, New Zealand, The Phillipines, Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, South Africa, Finland, Norway, Turkey, etc.AS WELL AS the U.S. The first times ANYWHERE took 20 times the amount of any work that a gerat many have benefitted from after my toils. It was ALWAYS an educational as well as business oriented mission. Moreover, I facilitated record sales simultaneous to or shortly after any of these first penetrations into these SAME markets--that each and every artist in THIS CITY have benefitted from FOR FREE. I could go on..but why? Yet valid/invalid...I really don't need to defend myself OR these artists for the debate at hand which is concentrating on the U.S. and we have all paid serious dues, some of which YOU may have even benefitted from..and therefore are deserving of your professional courtesy as it HAS been solidly EARNED. Bookings of Detroit artists to Europe and elsewhere globally has its ups and downs just like anything else.. I suppose I must be doing at least SOMETHING right...as longevity speaks for itself in spite of the hating going on in this thread. P.S. Regarding the hype on the DEMF vs. Love Parade, Frederic IS spot on correct. From: xx xx [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:18:41 + If I was a professionnal, I'd sent this kind of thing in private... There is absolutly no added value here! And hopefully someone has made his big money with a Detroit artist. How quickly people forget. ehyophstaOut From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:02:45 EST REGARDING BUSINESS : To Laura, 10 years ago the world promoter radio, press will contacting you for detroit artist 10 years ago all european majors or big independant label will contact you also for your detroit artist now, 95 % of european promoter does not want to book detroit dj often scare of no show, not collecting the money back for the 50 % deposit or flight. Label company does not want to deal anymore too much with Detroit artist as they do not deliver on time what they did promis... Demf is now controlling by Carol Marvin who think that is the biggest festival in the world !!! WHAT ABOUT THE LOVE PARADE 1.5 MILLION PEOPLE IN ONE AFTERNOON THIS IS THE BIGGEST EVENT IN THE WORLD Business is business, I'm in the business since more than 10 years and if you don't handle the business correctly people will not follow any more, and the reputation going down, down, down. regards black and white, i think this is more into the USA... We don't have to deal too much with this problem in europ, but for sure in the usa it is a real problem and i'm agree with Laura for this... Detroit artist are really respect in europ may be more than the usa and lots of people here in europ will still keep to listen detroit stuff all the time. Regards, Fdjaaleb. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313]Regarding Business
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/50/cover-mathis.shtml You can make your own inferences. Vince Woolums AOL IM: vincewoolums http://bnsrecords.gemm.com http://www.recordcollectorinc.com - Original Message - From: Jayson B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [313]Regarding Business Yes I have been reading all this bullshit about what I said or didn't say in my interview with xlr8r I'm glad to see that you're reading all this. it amazes me sometimes how many high profile people are on this list and actively reading it. I'll still continue to speak my mind on you or anyone else who puts their profile out for public display. When you have the fame to have a magazine ask for a interview, you should expect people to speak their mind on what you've said. I can't STAND IT when people tell me, stopping talking about dj x, he's not here to defend himself. Of COURSE he's not here to reply, he's a dj. He's busy doing dj things. The fact of the matter is, when you choose to make yourself a public figure, *expect* the public to make and voice their opinion about you. In my humble opinion (and since i'm semi-jealously not in your position, i may not have much room to talk), if i was in the high profile position of being able to make my music daily without the need of another job, and having people contact ME for a gig instead of the other way around, i would do one of two things with the comments that a little techno producer on a web list is making: 1. ignore them completely if they pissed me off. or 2. take them to heart, and see if there is some validity to them. You are in the public eye. You are an icon to hundreds of thousands of people all over the world. You have the ability to pracically walk into any club in the world and tell THEM that you're spinning that night, for the mere fact that you are juan atkins. People simply will talk about you, and that doesn't make them playa haters. that makes me someone with an opinion. 1) I did not go into xlr8r and hold a gun to the editor's head and make them interview me or put me on the cover, contrary to the haters never said that. Like i said, being the great producer that you are, you have the fantastic ability of people chasing after you for an interview. and so you chose to put your opinion in a big spread in a magazine, which then entitles me to speak my opinion in response as well. Apparently, I must be currently doing, and/or saying something of some status/substance to warrant a recent cover story on their mag. Wouldn't disagree with this whatsoever. you *are* juan atkins, and i certainly am not. 3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? hehe. new jack playa haters. I have a my newest song's title now. Pretending to be an authority and stating an opinion are two different things juan. or that Oakee or Digweed are so commercially viable. they are commercially viable. that's why oaktree has commercials on mtv, and does all those faboo remixes for the popstars. but you have more integrity than that right? or is it the fact that you are black, they are white, and if you were white you'd be doing all the things they do? All this time I though juan atkins was an artist, making fantastic music and (when you showed up for a gig) putting on great dj performances, and that juan atkins had more pride in his music than the sellout cheeseballs. was i wrong? I can't recall hearing any of their records (that they actually made) on the radio ? Maybe I'm wrong ? someone please correct me if I am. ok, maybe i am getting confused, and i'd love some clarification. What *is* your stance on commercial music? do you feel that they although they cater to the masses, that you do it better? or do you feel that you simply write a better form of music, even though its obviously not as accessable to the mainstream? 4) And please give me credit I'll give you credit till i'm blue in the face. I've said it a billion times in this email; you *are* juan atkins, and that means a fuckload more than being jayson b to the entire world of electronic music. but i'll still speak my mind about you. that won't change. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
I'm sure everyone feels your pain Giles. As it seems that there only about 5-10 people debating this issue it would be nice if they argued with each other privately. All of us are aware that this is distribution list, but is there really a need for us to be spectators to this verbal accident of differing opinions? I am not trying to police anything here but it truly seems that only a few people are going back and forth at each other at this point. Whatever good intentions were meant by your differing views have now been lost. What I am truly baffled by is why continue to copy the list? I have an email client in which you have to purposefully hit CC. Just curious? Do you guys feel you are enlightening us at this point? Please reply privately, if you can. I would truly appreciate it. Peace to All, Alex www.fulcruminn.net -Original Message- From: Giles Dickerson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:07 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org; Jayson B. Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Why not take this stuff off the list, do I need to read this? That's a rhetorical question. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 -- From: Jayson B. Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2002 1:05 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Further, I'd say they're inexcusable really. However, I wondered how those offensive remarks of Ms Gavoor, invalidated the other stuff Laura Gavoor said. Still have yet to get a cogent non-insulting, non inflammatory response that actually answers that question. Hi ken! i'm so very glad for your response, and i can't wait to provide you with a non-insulting positive response of my own! It depends on ms gavoor's full opinion of discrimination. if she feels strongly about people getting discriminated against, then it DOES invalidate her response. In that context, having her say ,'discrimination sucks,' and then turning around and saying the word 'faggot,' is 100% contradictory. it causes the reader to believe that she does not believe in her own views. Or if she feels that only black people are discriminated against, or that black people are the only ones worthy of a sympathetic shoulder when it comes to discrimination, then i'll shut up. but i still find the word faggot offensive. Hope to hear from you soon ken, and have a great day! _ Join the world ' s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313]Regarding Business
To me this reads exactly like the XLR8R article only with the questions changed... I just re-read the XLR8R article and the quotes are the same... Maybe that's because they were written by the same person... Duh At 01:42 PM 3/7/2002 -0600, Vince Woolums wrote: http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/50/cover-mathis.shtml You can make your own inferences. Vince Woolums AOL IM: vincewoolums http://bnsrecords.gemm.com http://www.recordcollectorinc.com - Original Message - From: Jayson B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [313]Regarding Business Yes I have been reading all this bullshit about what I said or didn't say in my interview with xlr8r I'm glad to see that you're reading all this. it amazes me sometimes how many high profile people are on this list and actively reading it. I'll still continue to speak my mind on you or anyone else who puts their profile out for public display. When you have the fame to have a magazine ask for a interview, you should expect people to speak their mind on what you've said. I can't STAND IT when people tell me, stopping talking about dj x, he's not here to defend himself. Of COURSE he's not here to reply, he's a dj. He's busy doing dj things. The fact of the matter is, when you choose to make yourself a public figure, *expect* the public to make and voice their opinion about you. In my humble opinion (and since i'm semi-jealously not in your position, i may not have much room to talk), if i was in the high profile position of being able to make my music daily without the need of another job, and having people contact ME for a gig instead of the other way around, i would do one of two things with the comments that a little techno producer on a web list is making: 1. ignore them completely if they pissed me off. or 2. take them to heart, and see if there is some validity to them. You are in the public eye. You are an icon to hundreds of thousands of people all over the world. You have the ability to pracically walk into any club in the world and tell THEM that you're spinning that night, for the mere fact that you are juan atkins. People simply will talk about you, and that doesn't make them playa haters. that makes me someone with an opinion. 1) I did not go into xlr8r and hold a gun to the editor's head and make them interview me or put me on the cover, contrary to the haters never said that. Like i said, being the great producer that you are, you have the fantastic ability of people chasing after you for an interview. and so you chose to put your opinion in a big spread in a magazine, which then entitles me to speak my opinion in response as well. Apparently, I must be currently doing, and/or saying something of some status/substance to warrant a recent cover story on their mag. Wouldn't disagree with this whatsoever. you *are* juan atkins, and i certainly am not. 3)Since when did a coupla new jack playa haters (Poivrenoir,Yussel, Jayson B,etc.) become the authority on this list as to who is in or out of touch with Detroit ? hehe. new jack playa haters. I have a my newest song's title now. Pretending to be an authority and stating an opinion are two different things juan. or that Oakee or Digweed are so commercially viable. they are commercially viable. that's why oaktree has commercials on mtv, and does all those faboo remixes for the popstars. but you have more integrity than that right? or is it the fact that you are black, they are white, and if you were white you'd be doing all the things they do? All this time I though juan atkins was an artist, making fantastic music and (when you showed up for a gig) putting on great dj performances, and that juan atkins had more pride in his music than the sellout cheeseballs. was i wrong? I can't recall hearing any of their records (that they actually made) on the radio ? Maybe I'm wrong ? someone please correct me if I am. ok, maybe i am getting confused, and i'd love some clarification. What *is* your stance on commercial music? do you feel that they although they cater to the masses, that you do it better? or do you feel that you simply write a better form of music, even though its obviously not as accessable to the mainstream? 4) And please give me credit I'll give you credit till i'm blue in the face. I've said it a billion times in this email; you *are* juan atkins, and that means a fuckload more than being jayson b to the entire world of electronic music. but i'll still speak my mind about you. that won't change. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Please do take it off the list... It was interesting to read for the first couple of days but now it's just clogging up my mail. At 02:43 PM 3/7/2002 -0500, Alexandres Lugo wrote: I'm sure everyone feels your pain Giles. As it seems that there only about 5-10 people debating this issue it would be nice if they argued with each other privately. All of us are aware that this is distribution list, but is there really a need for us to be spectators to this verbal accident of differing opinions? I am not trying to police anything here but it truly seems that only a few people are going back and forth at each other at this point. Whatever good intentions were meant by your differing views have now been lost. What I am truly baffled by is why continue to copy the list? I have an email client in which you have to purposefully hit CC. Just curious? Do you guys feel you are enlightening us at this point? Please reply privately, if you can. I would truly appreciate it. Peace to All, Alex www.fulcruminn.net -Original Message- From: Giles Dickerson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:07 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org; Jayson B. Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Why not take this stuff off the list, do I need to read this? That's a rhetorical question. - Giles D I G I T A S // B O S T O N -- Giles Dickerson Art Director 800 Boylston Street Boston, MA 02199 -- mobile 617 899 9635 office 617 369 8601 -- From: Jayson B. Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2002 1:05 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business Further, I'd say they're inexcusable really. However, I wondered how those offensive remarks of Ms Gavoor, invalidated the other stuff Laura Gavoor said. Still have yet to get a cogent non-insulting, non inflammatory response that actually answers that question. Hi ken! i'm so very glad for your response, and i can't wait to provide you with a non-insulting positive response of my own! It depends on ms gavoor's full opinion of discrimination. if she feels strongly about people getting discriminated against, then it DOES invalidate her response. In that context, having her say ,'discrimination sucks,' and then turning around and saying the word 'faggot,' is 100% contradictory. it causes the reader to believe that she does not believe in her own views. Or if she feels that only black people are discriminated against, or that black people are the only ones worthy of a sympathetic shoulder when it comes to discrimination, then i'll shut up. but i still find the word faggot offensive. Hope to hear from you soon ken, and have a great day! _ Join the world ' s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
I'm sure everyone feels your pain Giles. As it seems that there only about 5-10 people debating this issue it would be nice if they argued with each other privately. you're totally right. the next time 5-10 discuss a track id for a week please remind yourselves to respond privately. delete buttons are the greatest invention to man. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
track IDs are on topic race relations and how atkins wipes his ass is not. - Original Message - From: Jayson B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:05 PM Subject: RE: [313] Regarding Business I'm sure everyone feels your pain Giles. As it seems that there only about 5-10 people debating this issue it would be nice if they argued with each other privately. you're totally right. the next time 5-10 discuss a track id for a week please remind yourselves to respond privately. delete buttons are the greatest invention to man. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it
why are you whining to the list? oh poor me, I am black or poor me Im a woman or poor me, Im white (im sure the order in which I listed those will have some of you all excited. go ahead and hit reply to all and let me have it.) how about getting away from the computer and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. whining about it does no good whatsoever - Original Message - From: laura gavoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it Well...his points ARE valid onesbut to a much smaller degree than most European promoters would have you believe. However, many US artists have reputations or streaks in their careers for not showing, from Joey Beltram to Armand Van Helden, to Felix da Housecat, to Paul Johnson, to the list goes on. Lots of djs from lost of cities have burned out temporarily and burned some bridges along their paths... Do they get the same backlash??? Perhaps so, maybe not. Detroit or Chicago artists are NOT that unique from that standpoint Frederic, which i'm sure after some consideration you might grudgingly agree. Maybe not. Moreover, lots of European promoters have also taken gross advantage of the talents afforded by black American djs as well, complaining about fees, when on the very same bill another white dj - of equal or less credibility - will have been paid double what they (often complaining...) so generously paid one of Detroit's djs AT A PEAK OF THEIR CAREERS/NOTORIETY...and when they were ALWAYS showing up. Ideally Frederic, people like the Sonar festival (example ONLY ...), have built their castles SOLIDLY on the back of the very same Detroit djs/artists/businesses they perhaps choose to try and discredit ...ALL with VERY LITTLE mishap. The people (booking agents, labels, etc) that they work with today have it much, much easier then when these companies were also on their way up in this industry. I believe that most give little to NO CREDIT for taking advantage of artists (also eager for their fame/fortune)they ultimately BUILT their credibility, wealth and reputations upon. Plus...most of these promoters came waaay later than the artists or even small business people like myself me, but would have you believe otherwise with their criticisms and arrogance. And they STILL list the same Detroit artists in whatever advert or promo they do to continue to VALIDATE their history or credibility. Regarding the inference that I just showed up and started answering a telephone...that is simply incorrect. Women in this industry get player-hated with FAR more venom than the men, so let's look at this realistically ... The fact that I STILL have to defend my stature in this industry speaks for itself...but I am used to it. The age-old adage of women working twice as hard for less than half of the credibility in the business world at large...is even worse in this arena. When I started working at a Detroit label, the phone hardly EVER rang...not for press/media concerns NOR booking inquiries. Said label was in considerable debt, headed by an artist who wasn't the 'Cat's meoww ' at that time and STILL hasn't made any records which would've made my task/job S much easier. The only somewhat easy markets to make a little money with at that time were Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands. DJs that I worked with were getting about $1,000-1,200.00 usd -- MAX..my supa-small commissions--when/if i got them-- were NOT COMMENSURATE WITH the amount of work that I was doing ALL ALONE in this city. Most of these cats did not have publicists, PR firms, management or even label managers...ANY staff on a payroll (save UR) until well AFTER I was in this for over a year+. Consequently, once things started firing up and people started realizing that they might get a quicker response than simply faxing Carl Craig's machine in his apartment (the fax machine WAS Planet E...once upon a time). They CHOSE to call me to facilitate their business and the flow of business in this city fired up considerably. No brag...just fact and a lot of HARD WORK. Most often than not, I did the work or passed along opportunities directly to the artist getting NO compensation along the way. Jeff was living (mostly) in Berlin at the time and circumvented a lot of international wear and tear by being in the midst or close to the action. Derrick did the same having taken an apartment in Amsterdam. There were hardly any artists from Detroit that were travelling to London at all until Ministry/Jim Masters/Lynn Cosgrave really afforded opportunity for us to do so for a short period. The media heated up their interest as they were starting to be afforded a closer look and experience the artists whose product was JUST beginning to reach their ears/get reviewed as the almighty ' T ' word. Moreover, techno artists to a large degree are very much a boys
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Wholeheartedly Agreed! My personal apologies/thanks for everyone's patience in enduring my flagrant bandwidth filibusters and any offensive language. You were right to check... However...it is ONLY through debate that one can really ever know another (or something like that...famous quote) and dis is STILL relevant shtuff ANYONE on this list can call me (out? :o) to challenge, converse, question or yik-yak paddywack...may you be friend or foe...it will be your choice as I'll always be as courteous as I can. I think we simply need a VERY good party so's we can ALL shut up and dance! Peace, Laura Gavoor Yin-Sight Management 248-851-6436 fon 248-851-6521 fax From: :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jayson B. [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:07:23 -0500 I think its time for a group hug. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Agree _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
track IDs are on topic race relations and how atkins wipes his ass is not. and as i'm sure other people will point out, race relations IN techno and juan atkins are more on topic than discussing aril's latest release. but i guess that's a matter of opinion then yes? If some people on this list find that track id's are on topic, and others find that relevant issues in regards to techno are on topic, then we'll never really agree. Point is, you have your 'on topic,' i have my 'on topic,' so quit complaining about mine. I still read every email from this list (well, almost), but i do find the endless track id's useless sometimes when they continue on about *one* track for a week at a time. but i don't complain about it. i let it slide. cause when that particular one gets old, i just start usin delete. its amazing. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
how come 313 doesnt throw a party? I'm sure a few of us would play (for free) and what better way to drool about tracks than to spin them and absorb? I would do a live PA of coarse, not being a DJ -Joe - Original Message - From: laura gavoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Wholeheartedly Agreed! My personal apologies/thanks for everyone's patience in enduring my flagrant bandwidth filibusters and any offensive language. You were right to check... However...it is ONLY through debate that one can really ever know another (or something like that...famous quote) and dis is STILL relevant shtuff ANYONE on this list can call me (out? :o) to challenge, converse, question or yik-yak paddywack...may you be friend or foe...it will be your choice as I'll always be as courteous as I can. I think we simply need a VERY good party so's we can ALL shut up and dance! Peace, Laura Gavoor Yin-Sight Management 248-851-6436 fon 248-851-6521 fax From: :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jayson B. [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:07:23 -0500 I think its time for a group hug. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Agree _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
and as i'm sure other people will point out, race relations IN techno and actually, I'm pretty sure everyone would point out that they are sick of hearing from you and I. I'm on their side. I digress -Joe - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
I think we simply need a VERY good party so's we can ALL shut up and dance! Yeeeayy!!! But wait ,who would Dj? -another long winded debate forms... :) -- __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
how come 313 doesnt throw a party? I think that's a great idea of this years DEMF. Wish I could be there. MEK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
we should do it. anyone else motivated to work it out? -Joe - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; laura gavoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business how come 313 doesnt throw a party? I think that's a great idea of this years DEMF. Wish I could be there. MEK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
I could. Gotta convince my wife that doing a free show would be a good thing, though. :) -Original Message- From: :P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; laura gavoor Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business we should do it. anyone else motivated to work it out? -Joe - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; laura gavoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business how come 313 doesnt throw a party? I think that's a great idea of this years DEMF. Wish I could be there. MEK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
[EMAIL PROTECTED] com: I wish we did live in colorblind world like that. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeah but we'd run all the red lights :) So I guess you're saying Detroit is colorblind! ;-) (love those signs downtown that say The Light is RED for a reason!) -- im - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313]Regarding Business
Hello, I am sorry that I have to have my own opinion on this, but what I believe stands. I never said I was hatin on Juan, I never said he was a bad artist. Yet you can't blame the interviewer for your own answers. Or the editing, unless it was malicious, and in that regard I would assume a lawsuit was in order. And I don't think that by the amount of radio play one artist has had over another raises the bar on who's a better artist or not. Are there any national statistics on Sasha and Digweed versus Juan Atkins? I know he has been played alot on Detroit radio, but what do you expect? I mean listen to WJLB or 105.9 on the weekends and it's like they stopped buying records awhile ago. Just remixing the same old tired stuff. It's good stuff, but it's time is done. So am I wrong because I critisize the argument that the electronic music industry against black artists? That white kids prefer Trance for racially motivated reasons? I think not. I love Detroit techno and am proud of this city, and all of electronic music, and I am not going to sit here and stay passive when, even a talented artist says it, this music is being slammed because Jaun isn't as popular as he once was. I hope that can be respected. Later - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
Hello, Is it possible that this is the most ignorant person in America? How does the fact that Juan Atkins is an African American this excludes him from being racist? Where does this come from? ---BeginMessage--- Racism is a system of insitutionalized discrimination against one group by another. Under this system in America white skin and whiteness is accorded certain priveiliges. It comes from a historical precedent set by North American chattel slavery where whites owned so called black people. The Civil Rights Movement was about African-Americans earning their rights to be treated as full citizens of a country we continue to build. Juan Atkins is African-American. His decisions can not affect the lives of whole groups of people thus he can not be a racist. Ever heard of Cornel West? bell hooks? Manning Marable? Martin Luther King? Michael Eric Dyson?? Or how about Screamin' Jay Hawkins? Ike Turner? Wyonnie Harris? Little RIchard or my personal favorite Jimi Hendrix? My name is not buddy it's Tamara and if you have a problem with me you can address me by Ms. Harris. Apparently some people on this list need to go back to Reading Comprehension 101 and re-read Juan's interview. And it also sounds like many people here need to do some Black (because this a social construct people are named by their geographies although in the '60's the term was appropriated) and white history studies of the United States. I can not say that I like Juan Atkins because I don't know him personally but I do love his music. I have been a fan of Detroit Techno since I heard Cosmic Car as a kid listening to the radio and Mojo. Tamara Harris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---End Message--- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
for the last time. Read the thinkers I mentioned and you will understand. why don't you start with that Larry Heard track with the MLK speech on it. It is you my friend that is ignorant and here is your big chance to change it. Maybe you don't understand English well. I understand that lots of people never think about race at all which is reflective of their priveilige many times. I'm through talking about this for the moment. bell hooks, Manning Marable.go to any academic type bookstore and look for any books that deal with this topic. Routledge press has many good titles and they have a web site. Peace and Enlightenment, Five - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: [313] Regarding Business
One entry found for racism. Main Entry: rac·ism Pronunciation: 'rA-si-zm also -shi- Function: noun Date: 1936 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination - rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective On Thu, 2002-03-07 at 22:45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Is it possible that this is the most ignorant person in America? How does the fact that Juan Atkins is an African American this excludes him from being racist? Where does this come from? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Neontsetse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313s 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business the fact is, the stuff that ppl are refering to when they refer to Juan Atkins 'the legend' is his early Model 500 shit that was produced 'approx' 15 years ago. Just to throw another opinion in the kettle, I count 'Deep Space' as my all-time favorite 313 album. I love the early stuff too, but in my eyes he really took to the sky in the 90s. I thought Fred and Eric's posts were spot-on. Aside from that, the Basic Channel influence on the '90s could not be overstated, and Juan Atkins had more collaborations with them than anyone I can think of. DJ-wise we've covered it all 12 times over here, but I've never been dissapointed by him in the 3 times I've seen him, even if every mix is not perfect (and sometimes every mix is). Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com - Music http://www.metrotechno.net - DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com - DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com - Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email FrogboyMCI - AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
I'm agreeing with Laura, but I've always been curious about the moments in the spotlight of Black Box (late-80s/early 90s) and Crystal Waters (mid 90s). Crystal Waters is still releasing music and playing out (I believe she lives in Baltimore so I may have a more regionalized perspective on this). Seemed like strange anomolies to me. I'd be very interested to hear about their big-label experiences, even if they were towards the pop end of the house spectrum. However, proof positive of Laura's point would be Daft Punk's success selling 'Homework', when it may as well have fit squarely into the Mid-90s Chicago house cannon IMO. If you ask me, this was just two French dudes making music they loved, while giving credit where it was due (see Teachers), and this is definitely *not* what most white musicians have done in their situation. Point being though, that Daft Punk was seen as commercially viable, and countless Chicago house artists were not. You really need to rack your brain to come up with a few examples that defy the rules and the counter-examples are evident. Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com - Music http://www.metrotechno.net - DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com - DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com - Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email FrogboyMCI - AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
OK- Lets take a look at basically the biggest, most well paid, most recognized electronic artists today. trance: oakenfold, sasha digweed (white) techno: carl cox? (black) jungle: goldie (black) its not a black / white thing its a geographic thing (uk/usa) and that's because the uk has the mechanisms in place to promote their artsit more than america does. or maybe a genre thing, ppl just like trance better. and you can't have a superstar black trance dj, well...i can't think of any black trance djs. enough with your whining. enough with your late 80's/early 90's nostalgia if i read the story of the bellvue 3 one more time, i'll puke. there is an entire decade of detroit history since them, but it never gets told because every major article on techno is weighed down by that story (valuble inch space) you want to support detroit, support recloose (his new album is deep, innventive and thought provoking.) support tadd mullinex (amazing IDM that has more Detroit soul than you can imagine.) quit hacking away at the old shit. i like it. i like listening to it. but i am so sick of hearing about it. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, laura gavoor wrote: More appropriately a study of the RECURRING and cyclical pattern of de-evolution and propaganda with regard to Black American artists. The past is over and can never be repeatedor can it..?? What has been discussed has been due to the fact THAT THERE ARE NO black American DANCE artists of any number nowadays, sporting the same opportune major label distribution or recognition as their white counterparts...of whatever aspect of dance music they represent. If they are producing electronically driven dance music, are known and American...chances are they've got a pretty good situation with a major American label. What came before has set today's climate in this industry. There are NO BLACK Rock n'Roll artists today...FOR A VERY GOOD REASON. They were eliminated from the playing field a long time ago,but once upon a time the music was THEIRS alone born and bred. No one could tell me that all Black American rock n' roll musicians/bands...just disappeared. There are probably still black rock bands trying to get signed that will NEVER be afforded the opportunity in today's America. Why?? Because they aren't smart enough or talented enough? Please someone factually contradict this phenome with even the smallest exampleAlan? The game is old...competition...dirty pool...whatever you wish to call itbut it/the past solidly outlines what is to come--if we let it. Okay, Carl Craig's with Caroline...King Britt has made it to radio...anybody else??? Anybody? Kool Keith??? He's frustrated as hell and gits no marketing support (or radio play) from his label and therefore will remain right where he is. Who else? Let's update this to present day and back up our discussion/argument with facts. My tirade was in response to lack of respect for those 313 trail-blazing artists, business peeps, record store owners and promoters that came before affording a way for the young and inexperienced types on this list to presume expertise about garnering success in this country. Most of you have no clue of what these artists/peeps have gone through or what they are faced with TODAY in order to sell product. I'll wager that, just within the dance music arena, that there are even LESS black artists with major label deals/ties TODAY then there were back in the dusty (according to Josh) days of Juan Atkins/Lil Louis. Just within electronic dance musics' major categories (House, Techno, Dn'B...) Let's keep this mainstream american labels/mainstream subs only, K? How is this relevant to the so-called underground?...again microcosm to the macroeconomics of the entertainment industry at large in this country. If artists like Blaze, (is this recent enuff?) once signed to Motown failed at getting exposure and radio play for their product even while housed in a majorwhat chance, then, do the independents have to facilitate/develop market base or penetration to sell their product to potential fans in America? Whether you accept this or not...that is their goal--SALES and market penetration...not just ot be coolly exclusive for y'all to selfishly consume. Answering that, begs further questioning...do some of you presume that their product WOULDN'T be taken to or enjoyed by said potential audience? Cuz the success that we independents have garnered (as well as this thread) have proven that a fallacy. Independent (mostly public and college) radio actively play our products which gives a little hope and exposure for new sales/market penetration. But again, opportunities afforded us are the result of 20 or 30 TIMES the work of our counter-parts and non-ethnic competition. Roll callfor dance music artists either signed to or with major label distributioneveryone submit/post those that you know. While I
Re: [313] Regarding Business
The problem is obvious. How many people who revere the early Model 500 tracks in retrospect would have even given them a moment's notice in 1987? No, they were self-released by a young guy from a no-name Detroit suburb, a bunch of things ranting on and on about UFOs and stuff over clattery noise box sounds. I mean, let's be real, you can just imagine the disdain *even if they heard those tracks then to begin with.* Which they didn't outside of urban Detroit and Chicago. We certainly didn't hear any of this on the west coast unless it was a pure fluke until years later. Fast forward to 1992, 1997, 2002. How many people actually *listen* to what Juan Atkins (or name your producer) has put out, before making their judgment? See? That hasn't changed at all. The only thing that's changed is that now there are cover photos and hype stories in the slick magazines to do our thinking for us. (More than average appreciation at this moment to the people who *do* write honestly, like BMG, Tamara Palmer, Tom Magic Feet, John O and the gang over at XLR8R.) It's not like I am wildly enthusiastic about everything he's done. I left off a few I don't care for in my list. But I'll stack Juan's discography, all of it, against anyone else in electronic music -- even Paul Oakenfold -- and he'll come out very well indeed. But I've made my point on this matter and will shut up now. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
i don't think anyone is debating the quality of juan's music. obviously, if you are on this list, i think its safe to assume that you're more than likely to throw a Model 500 record on the turntable. what *i* am debating is the sentiment that juan somehow deserves to be thrown tons of money and have leigons of adoring fans today. despite the fact that he has done a minimal amount progression since those early days. if at first you don't suceed, keep on trying. i don't think he is, musically at least. and i think when people like laura start crying racism because sasha and digweed get more money than juan atkins, without consiering the fact they are putting out music constantly and working it hard, that just seems dumb. i'd be far more sympathetic if people were lamenting the fact that paul oakenfold makes millions while titonton duvante struggles because titonton is still doing really good, really interesting music. and i think that my felix the housecat example proves that its not about who's the youngest or hippest. nor is it about who did what 'back-in-the-day' its about sticking to it until you get it right. and lets also not forget that this is the entertainment business. there has to be a fair degree of luck involved. right place at the right time. and that's something that no one seems to consider. why are sasha and digweed huge? they happened to be there right when the wave of uk trance began. and that wave swelled bigger than the detroit techno wave. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Fred Heutte wrote: The problem is obvious. How many people who revere the early Model 500 tracks in retrospect would have even given them a moment's notice in 1987? No, they were self-released by a young guy from a no-name Detroit suburb, a bunch of things ranting on and on about UFOs and stuff over clattery noise box sounds. I mean, let's be real, you can just imagine the disdain *even if they heard those tracks then to begin with.* Which they didn't outside of urban Detroit and Chicago. We certainly didn't hear any of this on the west coast unless it was a pure fluke until years later. Fast forward to 1992, 1997, 2002. How many people actually *listen* to what Juan Atkins (or name your producer) has put out, before making their judgment? See? That hasn't changed at all. The only thing that's changed is that now there are cover photos and hype stories in the slick magazines to do our thinking for us. (More than average appreciation at this moment to the people who *do* write honestly, like BMG, Tamara Palmer, Tom Magic Feet, John O and the gang over at XLR8R.) It's not like I am wildly enthusiastic about everything he's done. I left off a few I don't care for in my list. But I'll stack Juan's discography, all of it, against anyone else in electronic music -- even Paul Oakenfold -- and he'll come out very well indeed. But I've made my point on this matter and will shut up now. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
on 3/5/02 8:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I count 'Deep Space' as my all-time favorite 313 album. Just a quick story--I spent a frustrating, long Amtrak trip from Detroit to Chicago several years ago, but was fortunate enough to be seated next to a fellow music geek. He was doing his PHD at Michigan in American popular music, pre-jazz. He showed some interest in techno, but had trouble knowing how to approach it. He asked me for a definitive release, and I suggested Deep Space. I wonder where that guy is now. -- im - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
trance: oakenfold, sasha digweed (white) techno: carl cox? (black) jungle: goldie (black) come on, man ,techno carl cox if somebody is mega super star in techno thats got to be Richie Hawtin, who is that carl cox figure. fat ass dj running intec nothing special b. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
Jeff Mills, Neil Lanstrumm -Original Message- From: Berislav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 March 2002 15:16 Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business trance: oakenfold, sasha digweed (white) techno: carl cox? (black) jungle: goldie (black) come on, man ,techno carl cox if somebody is mega super star in techno thats got to be Richie Hawtin, who is that carl cox figure. fat ass dj running intec nothing special b. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
The point I was trying to make is that not wether Jaun or Oakenfold being one dj better than the other, it's the fact that Oakenfold speaks to more people with his music right now, even if there is some historical arguement against that he's not as pioneering, who gives a fuck? I don't like the anit-black references he's putting out there, when it's obvious he can't milk his DETROIT stauts much longer, that the hype is dying down, so he has to pull the RACE CARD. I'm tired of people who aren't the supersatr forever reverting back to a time that doesn't exist here anymore in the US. Maybe you can find racism elswhere, but it's certainly not in electronic music, unless, I suppose you work for UR, which is anti anything not black. The racsim thing is an attack on the culture on a whole, because people aren't trying to be part of their inner clique. If you aren't part of their marketing machine in Detroit, you are excluded. That early form of techno is not what you hear in the clubs, the parties, or anywhere here. Yet they still try to monopolize the spotlight. What was the DEMF? It wasn't representative of Detroit. It was a planet e, KMS, metroplex promo package. And if you think I'm wrong, you aren't in touch enough in the Detroit scene. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
In a message dated 3/6/02 10:18:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: come on, man ,techno carl cox if somebody is mega super star in techno thats got to be Richie Hawtin, who is that carl cox figure. fat ass dj running intec nothing special dude, you're either taking the piss or you're talking out of your ass. as far as the uk and europe goes, carl cox is THE MAN taking on the mainstream and breaking down the barriers and making techno acceptable again over there. and in america, out of all the UK superstar dj's, he's the one who actually has some humility and knows his role. he has no illusions that he's going to 'change' the scene here, he just wants to bring his influences to the fans here - and people like rich respect him for that. FYI: Although Carl is the face behind InTec, he doesn't run the label day to day. That's taken by a very competent group of people including a very talented DJ, C-1. InTec will be making moves this year, watch and see. pw
Re: [313] Regarding Business
Uh No the DEMF was not a Detroit clique thing and even if it was it is called the DETROIT ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL. you must be a person living outside of the us or in the us in a white skin and ignorant of history. UR and Atkins are pioneers of this music and get no respect from the business end. why should Elvis or Eminem make more money and get more credibility than Ike Turner or Redman??? Because in AMerica white people doing Black art is always seen as a marvel... Look at NYSYNC and the list goes on. Look at Black rock group Fishbone. Are you telling me they are good enough to get paid. The point is this; the people who run the business are full of isms that determine who gets the spotlight. No one is denying anyone their right to listen to what they want but don't forget the history. I spoke with a Black rocker in NYC and he told me that many A R men didn't know what to do with Black guys playing soulful rock music. The record executive behind Digable Planets told them they were not hard translate black enough for hip-hop. So Juan is in the same position.. I don't have time to break this down anymore but Juan is not crying he's simply commenting on the truth; the music business is run by a bunch of culturally biased and/or ignorant people who have definite ideas about the value of the music based on their racist crap. if anyone does not understand where I'm coming from I will make one more post I don't have a lot of time to keep repeating this tired story. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Regarding Business
It was a planet e, KMS, metroplex promo package. number of planet e artists at DEMF 2000:2 (Recloose + Jason Hogans) number of KMS recording at DEMF 2000: 1 (Kevin Saunderson) number of metroplex recording artists: 0 (debatable, as Juan was scheduled but didn't perform) number of planet e artists at DEMF 2001:1 (IBEX) number of KMS artists at DEMF 2001: 1 (Innercity) number of metroplex artists at DEMF 2001: 1 (Juan) get your facts straight before you speak, son. get your facts straight. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: [313] Regarding Business
Perhaps you can elaborate (with slightly better English, punctuation and spelling please, you are a journalist after all) on the cultural diversity of the electronic music scene in the US - which is what I think you're implying exists. By the way, if you haven't got any intention of causing deliberate insult (which I believe you don't - I hope you understand irony too) you might want to quit swearing and being generally discourteous to (1) the musicians who you're criticizing (b) to anyone who appears to disagree with you. Thx, Ken -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business The point I was trying to make is that not wether Jaun or Oakenfold being one dj better than the other, it's the fact that Oakenfold speaks to more people with his music right now, even if there is some historical arguement against that he's not as pioneering, who gives a fuck? I don't like the anit-black references he's putting out there, when it's obvious he can't milk his DETROIT stauts much longer, that the hype is dying down, so he has to pull the RACE CARD. I'm tired of people who aren't the supersatr forever reverting back to a time that doesn't exist here anymore in the US. Maybe you can find racism elswhere, but it's certainly not in electronic music, unless, I suppose you work for UR, which is anti anything not black. The racsim thing is an attack on the culture on a whole, because people aren't trying to be part of their inner clique. If you aren't part of their marketing machine in Detroit, you are excluded. That early form of techno is not what you hear in the clubs, the parties, or anywhere here. Yet they still try to monopolize the spotlight. What was the DEMF? It wasn't representative of Detroit. It was a planet e, KMS, metroplex promo package. And if you think I'm wrong, you aren't in touch enough in the Detroit scene. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
what spotlight??? Juan Atkins was never in the Spotlight the techno were always larger overseas than at home. Those records were underground. KMS's Big Fun and Good Life were the biggest records for that whole scene. There was NEVER a time that Derrick got mobbed walking down the street in Detroit. so that is incorrect. you need to ask Carl Craig why the festival wasn't so inclusive if that is true.. I'm in Detroit and I do feel the first year was richer but that is not the point Juan is making. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: unless, I suppose you work for UR, which is anti anything not black. You just proved that you have got absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Otto - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Regarding Business
I cant believe what bullshit this list is. dont you fools know that the music knows no color? cant you people remember the days when no one knew what color the guy putting out the record was and you just listened to it for, *gasp* the MUSIC? This list bickers and bitches about race more than detroit techno. I doubt that Juan would be making racist sounding comments. why would you talk shit about the man when you can EASILY contact him and hash things out with him? dont you think he (or you if you were in his position) would prefer that? you know he reads this and yet you continue to slap him in the face with unsubstantiated rumors and other bullshit. I dont consider myself a fan or his, but he seems like a nice guy and for that matter, who on this list deserves the cumulative bullshit you cats are so eager to dish out? as for DEMF, its free to get in, and free to get out. I suggest if you are displeased with it, either dont go, or leave... more room for the people that are there for the music, not to say they went to demf all 3 years. is this where some of you try to guess my color? I would bet you have already, after reading the above. --- this is my opinion. I welcome yours. -Joe _ns_ Uh No the DEMF was not a Detroit clique thing and even if it was it is called the DETROIT ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL. you must be a person living outside of the us or in the us in a white skin and ignorant of history. UR and Atkins are pioneers of this music and get no respect from the business end. why should Elvis or Eminem make more money and get more credibility than Ike Turner or Redman??? Because in AMerica white people doing Black art is always seen as a marvel... Look at NYSYNC and the list goes on. Look at Black rock group Fishbone. Are you telling me they are good enough to get paid. The point is this; the people who run the business are full of isms that determine who gets the spotlight. No one is denying anyone their right to listen to what they want but don't forget the history. I spoke with a Black rocker in NYC and he told me that many A R men didn't know what to do with Black guys playing soulful rock music. The record executive behind Digable Planets told them they were not hard translate black enough for hip-hop. So Juan is in the same position.. I don't have time to break this down anymore but Juan is not crying he's simply commenting on the truth; the music business is run by a bunch of culturally biased and/or ignorant people who have definite ideas about the value of the music based on their racist crap. if anyone does not understand where I'm coming from I will make one more post I don't have a lot of time to keep repeating this tired story. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
