Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San 
Jose.


Anyone know anything about Webpass?


bp


On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to 
fiber. Interesting times!


http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* They've been mentioned on the lists a few times. They use a lot of 
Siklu. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San Jose. 
Anyone know anything about Webpass? 

bp
 
On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: 



Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to fiber. 
Interesting times! 



http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Eric Kuhnke]

this is why they acquired Webpass. Webpass uses a ton of 80 GHz Siklu.


On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
> fiber. Interesting times!
>
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/
> 08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-
> wireless-instead/?comments=1
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Wait until they experience ducting ;)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Prince 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San Jose.

  Anyone know anything about Webpass?




bp


On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to 
fiber. Interesting times!




http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?

They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
the same thing too. It's the smart play.

At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:
>
> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Bill Prince
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
> Jose.
>
> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>
> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to fiber.
> Interesting times!
>
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/10/16 09:59, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


Wait until they experience ducting ;)




In the bay area hopping between buildings? Not likely in the top ten for 
potential problems.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Gino Villarini]

i see it as a great step for the industry! getting validation from one of
the top tech companies in the world !

someone should get them to wispalooza

On Wednesday, August 10, 2016, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 8/10/16 09:59, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>>
>> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>
>>
>
> In the bay area hopping between buildings? Not likely in the top ten for
> potential problems.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through 
the eye of a needle.


-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?

They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
the same thing too. It's the smart play.

At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:


Wait until they experience ducting ;)


- Original Message -
From: Bill Prince
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
Jose.

Anyone know anything about Webpass?


bp


On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to 
fiber.

Interesting times!

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

I agree
I'm not feeling so smug about my WISP tho.
I mean, i'm happy i have it...but...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

  We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
  the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
  RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?

  They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
  is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
  appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
  couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
  the same thing too. It's the smart play.

  At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
  they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".

  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
   wrote:
  >
  > Wait until they experience ducting ;)
  >
  >
  > - Original Message -
  > From: Bill Prince
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >
  > It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
  > Jose.
  >
  > Anyone know anything about Webpass?
  >
  >
  > bp
  > 
  >
  > On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
  >
  > Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to fiber.
  > Interesting times!
  >
  > 
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

But I bet they can thread a needle through the eye of a camel.


bp


On 8/10/2016 10:28 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle. 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
> the eye of a needle.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
>
> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
> the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
> RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>
> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
> is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
> couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
> the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>
> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Bill Prince
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
>> Jose.
>>
>> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>
>> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
>> fiber.
>> Interesting times!
>>
>>
>> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
> through
> > the eye of a needle.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >
> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
> >
> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
> > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
> > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
> >
> > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
> > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
> > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
> > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
> >
> > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
> > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: Bill Prince
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >>
> >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
> >> Jose.
> >>
> >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
> >>
> >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
> >> fiber.
> >> Interesting times!
> >>
> >>
> >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/
> 08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-
> wireless-instead/?comments=1
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

Lovely biblical interpretation.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:36 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag. 

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

  I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.


  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
  > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
  > the eye of a needle.
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
  > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >
  > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
  >
  > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
  > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
  > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
  >
  > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
  > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
  > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
  > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
  > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
  >
  > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
  > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
  >
  > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
  >  wrote:
  >>
  >>
  >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
  >>
  >>
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: Bill Prince
  >> To: af@afmug.com
  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >>
  >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
  >> Jose.
  >>
  >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
  >>
  >>
  >> bp
  >> 
  >>
  >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
  >>
  >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
  >> fiber.
  >> Interesting times!
  >>
  >>
  >> 
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
  >>
  >>
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Adam Moffett]

My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". 
I didn't realize there were other variants :)


The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly 
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a 
needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that 
effect.  (I hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on 
the other side).


I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of 
it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the 
options. .




-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:
> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through

> the eye of a needle.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.

>
> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies 
in
> the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the 
best

> RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>
> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, 
which

> is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
> couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be 
doing

> the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>
> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean 
"saying

> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Bill Prince
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least 
in San

>> Jose.
>>
>> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>
>> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative 
to

>> fiber.
>> Interesting times!
>>
>>
>> 
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1

>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive
and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it
looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new
radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your
fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of
ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I
> didn't realize there were other variants :)
>
> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
> than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I
> hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).
>
> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
> options. .
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>
> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
>> through
>> > the eye of a needle.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>> >
>> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your
>> WISP.
>> >
>> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
>> > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
>> > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>> >
>> > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
>> > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
>> > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
>> > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
>> > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>> >
>> > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
>> > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Original Message -
>> >> From: Bill Prince
>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>> >>
>> >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in
>> San
>> >> Jose.
>> >>
>> >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
>> >> fiber.
>> >> Interesting times!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/
>> google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless
>> -instead/?comments=1
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.  
Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.  

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive and 
was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it looks 
like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new radios 
coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your fiber! I 
really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. Now i 
can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I 
didn't realize there were other variants :)  

  The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly 
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than 
for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I hope nobody 
here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

  I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of it.  
He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the options. .



  -- Original Message --
  From: "Josh Luthman" 
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag. 

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

  I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.


  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
  > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through
  > the eye of a needle.
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
  > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >
  > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.
  >
  > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
  > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
  > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
  >
  > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
  > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
  > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
  > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
  > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
  >
  > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
  > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
  >
  > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
  >  wrote:
  >>
  >>
  >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
  >>
  >>
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: Bill Prince
  >> To: af@afmug.com
  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >>
  >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in 
San
  >> Jose.
  >>
  >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
  >>
  >>
  >> bp
  >> 
  >>
  >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
  >>
  >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
  >> fiber.
  >> Interesting times!
  >>
  >>
  >> 
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
  >>
  >>
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
 $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive
> and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it
> looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new
> radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your
> fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of
> ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I
>> didn't realize there were other variants :)
>>
>> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
>> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
>> than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I
>> hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).
>>
>> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
>> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
>> options. .
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>>
>> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>>
>> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
>>> through
>>> > the eye of a needle.
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>> >
>>> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your
>>> WISP.
>>> >
>>> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
>>> > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
>>> > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>>> >
>>> > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
>>> > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
>>> > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
>>> > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
>>> > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>>> >
>>> > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
>>> > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - Original Message -
>>> >> From: Bill Prince
>>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>> >>
>>> >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in
>>> San
>>> >> Jose.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> bp
>>> >> 
>>> >>
>>> >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
>>> >> fiber.
>>> >> Interesting times!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google
>>> -fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-
>>> instead/?comments=1
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

Contractors?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
> without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
>  $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
>> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost
>> prohibitive and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited
>> because now it looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with
>> some of the new radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about
>> someone cutting your fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in
>> the public right of ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag".
>>> I didn't realize there were other variants :)
>>>
>>> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
>>> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
>>> than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I
>>> hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).
>>>
>>> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
>>> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
>>> options. .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>
>>>
>>> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>>>
>>> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
>>>> through
>>>> > the eye of a needle.
>>>> >
>>>> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>> >
>>>> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your
>>>> WISP.
>>>> >
>>>> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
>>>> > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
>>>> > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>>>> >
>>>> > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
>>>> > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
>>>> > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
>>>> > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
>>>> > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>>>> >
>>>> > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
>>>> > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>>>> >  wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> - Original Message -
>>>> >> From: Bill Prince
>>>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in
>>>> San
>>>> >> Jose.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> bp
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
>>>> >> fiber.
>>>> >> Interesting times!
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google
>>>> -fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instea
>>>> d/?comments=1
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

Yep, ask Sterling.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Contractors?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
wrote:

  I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.  
Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.  

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive 
and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it looks 
like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new radios 
coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your fiber! I 
really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. Now i 
can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I 
didn't realize there were other variants :)  

  The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly 
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than 
for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I hope nobody 
here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

  I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of 
it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the options. .



  -- Original Message --
  From: "Josh Luthman" 
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
      Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag. 

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

  I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.


  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:
  > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through
  > the eye of a needle.
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
  > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >
  > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.
  >
  > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies 
in
  > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the 
best
  > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
  >
  > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, 
which
  > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
  > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
  > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be 
doing
  > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
  >
  > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean 
"saying
  > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
  >
  > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
  >  wrote:
  >>
  >>
  >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
      >>
      >>
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: Bill Prince
  >> To: af@afmug.com
  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >>
  >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least 
in San
  >> Jose.
  >>
  >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
  >>
  >>
  >> bp
  >> 
  >>
  >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
  >>
  >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative 
to
  >> fiber.
  >> Interesting times!
  >>
  >>
  >> 
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
  >>
  >>
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

And other Utah fiber guys =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Yep, ask Sterling.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Contractors?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  > wrote:
>
>> I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
>> without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
>> $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
>>> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>>>
>>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>
>>> I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost
>>> prohibitive and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited
>>> because now it looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with
>>> some of the new radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about
>>> someone cutting your fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in
>>> the public right of ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag".
>>>> I didn't realize there were other variants :)
>>>>
>>>> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
>>>> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
>>>> than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I
>>>> hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other 
>>>> side).
>>>>
>>>> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
>>>> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
>>>> options. .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>>> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>>>>
>>>> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
>>>>> through
>>>>> > the eye of a needle.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>>>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your
>>>>> WISP.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
>>>>> > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the
>>>>> best
>>>>> > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
>>>>> > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
>>>>> > appropriate one for the application. If it w

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Eric Kuhnke]

I somehow doubt they are going to see ducting in 3 km 80 GHz links. Rain
fade yes. Google has microwave engineers who know what they're doing... And
with the acquisition of webpass have acquired staff with many years of
cumulative experience with rooftop point to point 60/80 GHz.

I have a unique perspective on this as I used to work for the ISP that is
the primary reason why Webpass did *not* come to Seattle. Because we had
cherry picked all the best downtown and near-downtown MDUs starting from
2010.



On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 9:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Bill Prince 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
> Jose.
>
> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>
> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
> fiber. Interesting times!
>
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/
> 08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-
> wireless-instead/?comments=1
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

And for the company that used to have the slogan "do no evil" and then 
canceled said slogan, the rich to heaven part may end up being 
particularly appropriate...   Google will be going after those 3.GHz 
licenses in a big way when they come available...


On 08/10/2016 10:48 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag".
I didn't realize there were other variants :)
The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that
effect.  (I hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on
the other side).
I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
options. .
-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a
camel through
> the eye of a needle.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
    > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with
your WISP.
>
> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
companies in
> the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of
the best
> RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>
> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done,
which
> is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
> couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be
doing
> the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>
> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean
"saying
> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
wrote:
>>
    >>
>> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Bill Prince
>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At
least in San
>> Jose.
>>
>> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>
>> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as
alternative to
>> fiber.
>> Interesting times!
>>
>>
>>

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1

<http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Gino Villarini]

theyll be after 3.5 ghz, but not for GoogleFiber projects...

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> And for the company that used to have the slogan "do no evil" and then
> canceled said slogan, the rich to heaven part may end up being particularly
> appropriate...   Google will be going after those 3.GHz licenses in a big
> way when they come available...
>
> On 08/10/2016 10:48 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
>> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag".
>> I didn't realize there were other variants :)
>> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
>> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a
>> needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that
>> effect.  (I hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on
>> the other side).
>> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
>> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
>> options. .
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Josh Luthman" > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
>> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>>> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>>>
>>> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds >> <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown >> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a
>>> camel through
>>> > the eye of a needle.
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>>> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>> >
>>> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with
>>> your WISP.
>>> >
>>> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
>>> companies in
>>> > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of
>>> the best
>>> > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>>> >
>>> > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done,
>>> which
>>> > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
>>> > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
>>> > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be
>>> doing
>>> > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>>> >
>>> > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean
>>> "saying
>>> > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>>> > mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - Original Message -
>>> >> From: Bill Prince
>>> >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>> >>
>>> >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At
>>> least in San
>>> >> Jose.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> bp
>>> >> 
>>> >>
>>> >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as
>>> alternative to
>>> >> fiber.
>>> >> Interesting times!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/
>>> google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless
>>> -instead/?comments=1
>>> <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/
>>> google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless
>>> -instead/?comments=1>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

I heard that they were after 3.5 in place of GF installs, similar to 
their reason for Webpass purchase...


On 08/10/2016 01:30 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

theyll be after 3.5 ghz, but not for GoogleFiber projects...

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

And for the company that used to have the slogan "do no evil" and
then canceled said slogan, the rich to heaven part may end up being
particularly appropriate...   Google will be going after those 3.GHz
licenses in a big way when they come available...

On 08/10/2016 10:48 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb
bag".
I didn't realize there were other variants :)
The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something
nearly
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that
effect.  (I hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see
you on
the other side).
I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the
application of
it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably
weighed the
options. .
-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>
To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>>
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>>
wrote:

 I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't
understand it.

 On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
 <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>> wrote:
 > They may have great RF engineers, but you still
cannot fit a
 camel through
 > the eye of a needle.
 >
 > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
 > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
 > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
<mailto:af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
 > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
 >
 > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so
smug with
 your WISP.
 >
 > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
 companies in
 > the world though. Do you really think they don't have
some of
 the best
 > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
 >
 > They're not doing anything different than many of us
have done,
 which
 > is evaluate the business case for each technology and
pick the most
 > appropriate one for the application. If it was going
to cost you a
 > couple hundred thousand just to cross an
intersection, you'd be
 doing
 > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
 >
 > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which
would mean
 "saying
 > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
 >
 > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 > mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>>
 wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
         >>
     >>
 >> - Original Message -
 >> From: Bill Prince
  

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3055998/networking/google-to-test-innovative-3-5ghz-wireless-in-kansas-city.html

On 08/10/2016 01:30 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

theyll be after 3.5 ghz, but not for GoogleFiber projects...

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

And for the company that used to have the slogan "do no evil" and
then canceled said slogan, the rich to heaven part may end up being
particularly appropriate...   Google will be going after those 3.GHz
licenses in a big way when they come available...

On 08/10/2016 10:48 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb
bag".
I didn't realize there were other variants :)
The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something
nearly
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that
effect.  (I hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see
you on
the other side).
I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the
application of
it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably
weighed the
options. .
-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>
To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>>
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>>
wrote:

 I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't
understand it.

 On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
 <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>> wrote:
 > They may have great RF engineers, but you still
cannot fit a
 camel through
 > the eye of a needle.
 >
 > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
 > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
 > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
<mailto:af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
 > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
 >
 > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so
smug with
 your WISP.
 >
 > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
 companies in
 > the world though. Do you really think they don't have
some of
 the best
 > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
 >
 > They're not doing anything different than many of us
have done,
 which
 > is evaluate the business case for each technology and
pick the most
 > appropriate one for the application. If it was going
to cost you a
 > couple hundred thousand just to cross an
intersection, you'd be
 doing
 > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
 >
 > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which
would mean
 "saying
 > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
 >
 > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 > mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>>
 wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
         >>
     >>
 >> - Original Message -
 >>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Yes? (pops head out of hole)

I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Yep, ask Sterling.

From: Josh Luthman<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Contractors?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.

From: Kurt Fankhauser<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive and 
was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it looks 
like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new radios 
coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your fiber! I 
really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. Now i 
can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I 
didn't realize there were other variants :)

The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly 
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than 
for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I hope nobody 
here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of it.  He 
may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the options. .



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
> the eye of a needle.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
>
> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
> the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
> RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>
> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
> is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
> couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
> the same thing too. It's the smart play.
>
> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Bill Prince
>> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
>> Jose.
>>
>> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>
>> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
>> fiber.
>> Interesting times!
>>
>>
>> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

what do you pay these contractors and for what work?

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Yes? (pops head out of hole)
>
>
>
> I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Yep, ask Sterling.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Contractors?
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
> I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
> without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
> $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
>
> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive
> and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it
> looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new
> radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your
> fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of
> ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I
> didn't realize there were other variants :)
>
>
>
> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
> than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I
> hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).
>
>
>
> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
> options. .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>
>
>
> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
> through
> > the eye of a needle.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >
> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
> >
> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
> > the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
> > RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
> >
> > They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
> > is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> > appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
> > couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
> > the same thing too. It's the smart play.
> >
> > At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
> > they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: Bill Prince
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >>
> >> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in San
> >> Jose.
> >>
> >> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
> >>
> >> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
> >> fiber.
> >> Interesting times!
> >>
> >>
> >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/
> 08/google-fiber-delays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-
> wireless-instead/?comments=1
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Gino Villarini]

yeap 3.5 its in google head but it would not be a google fiber replacement
like 60 ghz

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> what do you pay these contractors and for what work?
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes? (pops head out of hole)
>>
>>
>>
>> I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep, ask Sterling.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>>
>>
>> Contractors?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser <
>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
>> without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
>> $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
>>
>> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>>
>>
>> I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost
>> prohibitive and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited
>> because now it looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with
>> some of the new radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about
>> someone cutting your fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in
>> the public right of ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I
>> didn't realize there were other variants :)
>>
>>
>>
>> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
>> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
>> than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I
>> hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).
>>
>>
>>
>> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
>> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
>> options. .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>
>> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>>
>>
>> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
>> through
>> > the eye of a needle.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>> >
>> > So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your
>> WISP.
>> >
>> > We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
>> > the world though. Do you real

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.

I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.

I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and 
configuration.

I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with site 
maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site engineering.

Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s only 
a call or two a day.

I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.

I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of different 
sources.
I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.

It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls and 
emails.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

what do you pay these contractors and for what work?

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Yes? (pops head out of hole)

I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Yep, ask Sterling.

From: Josh Luthman<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Contractors?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.

From: Kurt Fankhauser<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive and 
was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it looks 
like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new radios 
coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your fiber! I 
really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. Now i 
can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I 
didn't realize there were other variants :)

The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly 
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than 
for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I hope nobody 
here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of it.  He 
may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the options. .



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
> the eye of a needle.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
>
> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
> the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best
> RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>
> They

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

An ONT install is $50???  Are these tiny Chinese children?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 11, 2016 11:50 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

> Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.
>
>
>
> I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.
>
>
>
> I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and
> configuration.
>
>
>
> I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with
> site maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site
> engineering.
>
>
>
> Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s
> only a call or two a day.
>
>
>
> I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.
>
>
>
> I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of
> different sources.
>
> I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.
>
>
>
> It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls
> and emails.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> what do you pay these contractors and for what work?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Yes? (pops head out of hole)
>
>
>
> I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Yep, ask Sterling.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Contractors?
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
> I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
> without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
> $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
>
> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive
> and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it
> looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new
> radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your
> fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of
> ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I
> didn't realize there were other variants :)
>
>
>
> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
> impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
> than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I
> hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).
>
>
>
> I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of
> it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the
> options. .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.
>
>
>
> You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

Bonobos

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

An ONT install is $50???  Are these tiny Chinese children?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 11:50 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

  Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.



  I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.



  I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and 
configuration.



  I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with site 
maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site engineering.



  Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s 
only a call or two a day.



  I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.



  I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of 
different sources.

  I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.



  It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls and 
emails.





  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?



  what do you pay these contractors and for what work?



  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson  
wrote:

Yes? (pops head out of hole)



I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?



Yep, ask Sterling.  



From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?



Contractors?





Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
wrote:

  I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!



  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.  

Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.  



From: Kurt Fankhauser 

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?



I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost 
prohibitive and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because 
now it looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the 
new radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your 
fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. 
Now i can keep on my plant on private property.



On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb 
bag". I didn't realize there were other variants :)  



  The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something 
nearly impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a 
needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I 
hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).



  I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application 
of it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the 
options. .







  -- Original Message --

  From: "Josh Luthman" 

  To: "af@afmug.com" 

      Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?



You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag. 



You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.





Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
 wrote:

  I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.


  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:
  > They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a 
camel through
  > the eye of a needle.
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
  > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
   

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Ah, sorry, all of the outside box and splice are already done (NID).

So this is very similar to a CPE install for wireless, only no roof work.

The installer places the ONT device in the NID and connects up the house 
Ethernet to it.
They usually cross-connect the Cat5e inside the house to a port in a central 
room, and connect the wireless router there.

Average is about an hour an install I think.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


An ONT install is $50???  Are these tiny Chinese children?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 11, 2016 11:50 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.

I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.

I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and 
configuration.

I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with site 
maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site engineering.

Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s only 
a call or two a day.

I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.

I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of different 
sources.
I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.

It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls and 
emails.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

what do you pay these contractors and for what work?

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Yes? (pops head out of hole)

I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Yep, ask Sterling.

From: Josh Luthman<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Contractors?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.

From: Kurt Fankhauser<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive and 
was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it looks 
like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new radios 
coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your fiber! I 
really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. Now i 
can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I 
didn't realize there were other variants :)

The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly 
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than 
for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I hope nobody 
here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of it.  He 
may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the options. .



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy,

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

You've already got the NIDs at all of the houses and then you charge $50
for activation?  Why/how did you get every house wired and ready before
they signed up for service?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Ah, sorry, all of the outside box and splice are already done (NID).
>
>
>
> So this is very similar to a CPE install for wireless, only no roof work.
>
>
>
> The installer places the ONT device in the NID and connects up the house
> Ethernet to it.
>
> They usually cross-connect the Cat5e inside the house to a port in a
> central room, and connect the wireless router there.
>
>
>
> Average is about an hour an install I think.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:03 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> An ONT install is $50???  Are these tiny Chinese children?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 11:50 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
> wrote:
>
> Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.
>
>
>
> I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.
>
>
>
> I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and
> configuration.
>
>
>
> I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with
> site maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site
> engineering.
>
>
>
> Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s
> only a call or two a day.
>
>
>
> I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.
>
>
>
> I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of
> different sources.
>
> I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.
>
>
>
> It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls
> and emails.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> what do you pay these contractors and for what work?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Yes? (pops head out of hole)
>
>
>
> I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Yep, ask Sterling.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Contractors?
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
> I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
> without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
> $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
>
> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive
> and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it
> looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new
> radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your
> fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of
> ways. Now i can keep on my plant on private property.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I
> didn't realize there were other variants :)
>
>
>
> The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly
> impossible.  "I

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Sterling Jacobson]

No, sorry, the customer asks for connection, THEN we construct the ‘drop’ 
conduit and fiber/NID and schedule installation.

So there is a different cost item for the drop construction to prepare it for 
inside installation.

Does that make more sense?

This would only be for areas/neighborhoods that are already mainline 
constructed which is yet ANOTHER cost item.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You've already got the NIDs at all of the houses and then you charge $50 for 
activation?  Why/how did you get every house wired and ready before they signed 
up for service?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Ah, sorry, all of the outside box and splice are already done (NID).

So this is very similar to a CPE install for wireless, only no roof work.

The installer places the ONT device in the NID and connects up the house 
Ethernet to it.
They usually cross-connect the Cat5e inside the house to a port in a central 
room, and connect the wireless router there.

Average is about an hour an install I think.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


An ONT install is $50???  Are these tiny Chinese children?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 11, 2016 11:50 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.

I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.

I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and 
configuration.

I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with site 
maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site engineering.

Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s only 
a call or two a day.

I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.

I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of different 
sources.
I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.

It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls and 
emails.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

what do you pay these contractors and for what work?

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Yes? (pops head out of hole)

I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Yep, ask Sterling.

From: Josh Luthman<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Contractors?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.

From: Kurt Fankhauser<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive and 
was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it looks 
like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new radios 
coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your fiber! I 
really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. Now i 
can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I 
did

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

That does yes :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 11, 2016 12:23 PM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

> No, sorry, the customer asks for connection, THEN we construct the ‘drop’
> conduit and fiber/NID and schedule installation.
>
>
>
> So there is a different cost item for the drop construction to prepare it
> for inside installation.
>
>
>
> Does that make more sense?
>
>
>
> This would only be for areas/neighborhoods that are already mainline
> constructed which is yet ANOTHER cost item.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:21 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> You've already got the NIDs at all of the houses and then you charge $50
> for activation?  Why/how did you get every house wired and ready before
> they signed up for service?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Ah, sorry, all of the outside box and splice are already done (NID).
>
>
>
> So this is very similar to a CPE install for wireless, only no roof work.
>
>
>
> The installer places the ONT device in the NID and connects up the house
> Ethernet to it.
>
> They usually cross-connect the Cat5e inside the house to a port in a
> central room, and connect the wireless router there.
>
>
>
> Average is about an hour an install I think.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:03 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> An ONT install is $50???  Are these tiny Chinese children?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 11:50 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
> wrote:
>
> Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.
>
>
>
> I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.
>
>
>
> I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and
> configuration.
>
>
>
> I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with
> site maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site
> engineering.
>
>
>
> Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s
> only a call or two a day.
>
>
>
> I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.
>
>
>
> I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of
> different sources.
>
> I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.
>
>
>
> It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls
> and emails.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> what do you pay these contractors and for what work?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Yes? (pops head out of hole)
>
>
>
> I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Yep, ask Sterling.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
>
>
> Contractors?
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
> I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber
> without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?
> $100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
>
> Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>
> *Sent:

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

I agree on the support side.
How do you utilize linktechs to program your mikrotiks from remote?
do you power them up on a bench they have remote access to?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Sterling Jacobson 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.

   

  I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.

   

  I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and 
configuration.

   

  I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with site 
maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site engineering.

   

  Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s 
only a call or two a day.

   

  I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.

   

  I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of 
different sources.

  I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.

   

  It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls and 
emails.

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

   

  what do you pay these contractors and for what work?

   

  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson  
wrote:

Yes? (pops head out of hole)

 

I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 

Yep, ask Sterling.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 

Contractors?

 

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
wrote:

  I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

   

  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.  

Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.  

 

From: Kurt Fankhauser 

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost 
prohibitive and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because 
now it looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the 
new radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your 
fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. 
Now i can keep on my plant on private property.

 

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb 
bag". I didn't realize there were other variants :)  

   

  The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something 
nearly impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a 
needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I 
hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

   

  I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application 
of it.  He may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the 
options. .

   

   

   

  -- Original Message --

  From: "Josh Luthman" 

  To: "af@afmug.com" 

          Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

   

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag. 

 

You can't get 100 gbps in ~100 MHz of spectrum.

 

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Josh Reynolds 
 wrote:

  I have looked this phrase up, but I still don't understand it.


  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:
  > They may have great RF engineers, but 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Sterling Jacobson]

So far I have used them mostly for large sweeping changes in my network 
topology.
They programmed my OSPF and MPLS/VPLS stuff en mass, remotely.
Which took a lot less time than I would have taken, and went a lot smoother.
Dennis did most, if not all, of the work himself.
He was awesome to work with and got the job done in a timely and relatively 
painless manner.
I intend to use them again for major changes and additions.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


I agree on the support side.
How do you utilize linktechs to program your mikrotiks from remote?
do you power them up on a bench they have remote access to?

- Original Message -
From: Sterling Jacobson<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.

I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.

I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and 
configuration.

I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with site 
maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site engineering.

Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s only 
a call or two a day.

I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.

I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of different 
sources.
I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.

It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls and 
emails.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

what do you pay these contractors and for what work?

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Yes? (pops head out of hole)

I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Yep, ask Sterling.

From: Josh Luthman<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Contractors?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do fiber 
without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.
Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.

From: Kurt Fankhauser<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost prohibitive and 
was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because now it looks 
like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the new radios 
coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your fiber! I 
really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. Now i 
can keep on my plant on private property.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb bag". I 
didn't realize there were other variants :)

The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something nearly 
impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than 
for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I hope nobody 
here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the application of it.  He 
may be right to question it.  Google has probably weighed the options. .



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:36:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You can't put 12 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag.

You can't get

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Brian Webster]

Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you 
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did). 

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in 
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in planning 
construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from them 
should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit 
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. They may use 
microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction cost areas such 
as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they 
cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their 
wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, but even then 
they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the 
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and too 
much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too far 
behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is 
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and 
skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real good at 
listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input. 

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through the 
eye of a needle.

-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the world 
though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF engineering 
talent in the world on their payroll?

They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which is 
evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most appropriate 
one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple hundred thousand 
just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same thing too. It's the 
smart play.

At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying they 
can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:
>
> Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Bill Prince
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in 
> San Jose.
>
> Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>
> Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to 
> fiber.
> Interesting times!
>
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del
> ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all the
cancelled projects.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:

> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you
> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
> Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
> much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
> think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
> (Like Kansas City did).
>
> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups
> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
> drove up costs.
>
> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from
> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
> can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
> construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
> wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
> MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
> makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
> huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
> capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
> spectrum, interference and capacity.
>
> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are
> too far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
> Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
> people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own best
> cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
> internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and
> outside input.
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
> the eye of a needle.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
>
> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the
> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>
> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which is
> evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple
> hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same
> thing too. It's the smart play.
>
> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
> >
> > Wait until they experience ducting ;)
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Bill Prince
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >
> > It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in
> > San Jose.
> >
> > Anyone know anything about Webpass?
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
> >
> > Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
> > fiber.
> > Interesting times!
> >
> > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del
> > ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all the
> cancelled projects.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read
>> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
>> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
>> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google
>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would
>> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google
>> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
>> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
>> City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
>> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups
>> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
>> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
>> drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from
>> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
>> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can.
>> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction
>> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
>> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
>> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky
>> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
>> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short
>> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
>> interference and capacity.
>>
>> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
>> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
>> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
>> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too
>> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is
>> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
>> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have
>> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
>> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
>> the eye of a needle.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
>>
>> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the
>> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
>> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>>
>> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which is
>> evaluate the business case for each technology and 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

When you have an endless supply of money, no doubt they can generate many 
technical successes.
Creating financial success is a bit more difficult, but if you have free 
marketing and advertising, that really helps.


But they are far from their original motto of "don't be evil".

There is a job title there of "genius" and those with job titles sit in a 
room and throw out ideas.  The ideas are noted and submarine patents are 
filed.  Thousands and thousands of submarine patents.  I know one of the 
patent attorneys.


I think it is laughable that they thought they could just waltz by the hard 
won pole contact agreements that the CATV, Power and Telco have fought about 
for years.  Like Google was going to get some slack because they are Google? 
Yeah right.




-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all the
cancelled projects.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell 
you

there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners 
(read

competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than 
Google
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities 
would
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much 
existing
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
Google

thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups

(in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from

them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they 
can.
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high 
construction

cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it 
risky

to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity 
short

hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
interference and capacity.

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD 
and
too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are 
too
far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google 
is

certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they 
have

a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through

the eye of a needle.

-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking ab

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the intention
of destroying other companies business.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.
>
> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
> projects / labs) will.
>
> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
> strategy.
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
> > Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all the
> > cancelled projects.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
> you
> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
> >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
> (read
> >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
> the
> >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
> San
> >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
> Google
> >> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities
> would
> >> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
> existing
> >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
> Google
> >> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with
> the
> >> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
> >> City did).
> >>
> >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
> their
> >> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign
> ups
> >> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
> >> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
> >> drove up costs.
> >>
> >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
> from
> >> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
> >> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
> can.
> >> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
> construction
> >> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
> >> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU
> cases.
> >> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it
> risky
> >> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
> >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity
> short
> >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
> >> interference and capacity.
> >>
> >> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
> >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from
> the
> >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD
> and
> >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks
> are too
> >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
> Google is
> >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people,
> tools
> >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they
> have
> >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not
> real
> >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
> >>
> >> Thank You,
> >> Brian Webster
> >> www.wirelessmapping.com
> >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@a

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

have seen a lot from
>> >> the
>> >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD
>> >> and
>> >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks
>> >> are too
>> >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
>> >> Google is
>> >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people,
>> >> tools
>> >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they
>> >> have
>> >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not
>> >> real
>> >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
>> >>
>> >> Thank You,
>> >> Brian Webster
>> >> www.wirelessmapping.com
>> >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>> >>
>> >> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
>> >> through
>> >> the eye of a needle.
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-----
>> >> From: Josh Reynolds
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>> >>
>> >> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your
>> >> WISP.
>> >>
>> >> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
>> >> the
>> >> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
>> >> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>> >>
>> >> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
>> >> is
>> >> evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
>> >> appropriate
>> >> one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple hundred
>> >> thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same thing
>> >> too.
>> >> It's the smart play.
>> >>
>> >> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
>> >> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > - Original Message -
>> >> > From: Bill Prince
>> >> > To: af@afmug.com
>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>> >> >
>> >> > It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in
>> >> > San Jose.
>> >> >
>> >> > Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > bp
>> >> > 
>> >> >
>> >> > On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
>> >> > fiber.
>> >> > Interesting times!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del
>> >> > ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. 
 They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they 
will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you 
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in 
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in planning 
construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from them 
should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit 
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. They may use 
microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction cost areas such 
as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they 
cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their 
wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, but even then 
they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the 
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and too 
much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too far 
behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is 
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and 
skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real good at 
listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through the 
eye of a needle.

-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the world 
though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF engineering 
talent in the world on their payroll?

They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which is 
evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most appropriate 
one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple hundred thousand 
just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same thing too. It's the 
smart play.

At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying they can't do 
it unless they receive federal subsidies".

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:


Wait until they experience ducting ;)


- Original Message -
From: Bill Prince
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in
San Jose.

Anyone know anything about Webpass?


bp


On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative to
fiber.
Interesting times!

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del
ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

And look how much of that huge outlay of cash has returned on the 
investment.   After the initial search engine success, android ($), and 
youtube ($$) are the only real moneymakers...  Sorry doing research 
isn't making money...   List their other big moneymakers that haven't 
been acquisitions and aren't based upon their search or hype...


On 08/11/2016 03:32 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all the
cancelled projects.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups
(in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from
them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can.
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short
hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
interference and capacity.

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too
far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have
a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
the eye of a needle.

-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the
world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
engineering talent in the world on their payroll?

They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which is
evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most appropriate
one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple hundred
thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same thing too.
It's the smart play.

At least they're not doing this in LEC style, whic

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/10/investing/google-alphabet-all-time-high/

"Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
worth $555 billion."

"The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.

That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
billion in 2017."

So, that may take awhile there Robert.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company..
> They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will
> eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read
>> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
>> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
>> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google
>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would
>> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google
>> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
>> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
>> City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
>> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups
>> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
>> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
>> drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from
>> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
>> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can.
>> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction
>> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
>> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
>> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky
>> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
>> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short
>> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
>> interference and capacity.
>>
>> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
>> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
>> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
>> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too
>> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is
>> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
>> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have
>> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
>> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
>> the eye of a needle.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
>>
>> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the
>> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
>> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>>
>> They're not doing anything different than m

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

 >>
 >> Thank You,
 >> Brian Webster
 >> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
 >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com>
 >>
 >> -Original Message-
 >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
     >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
 >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
 >>
 >> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a
camel through
 >> the eye of a needle.
 >>
 >> -Original Message-
 >> From: Josh Reynolds
 >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
 >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
 >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
 >>
 >> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with
your WISP.
 >>
 >> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
companies in the
 >> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the
best RF
 >> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
 >>
 >> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done,
which is
 >> evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
appropriate
 >> one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple
hundred
 >> thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same
thing too.
     >> It's the smart play.
 >>
 >> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean
"saying
 >> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
 >>
 >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 >> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
wrote:
 >> >
 >> > Wait until they experience ducting ;)
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > - Original Message -
 >> > From: Bill Prince
 >> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
 >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
 >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
 >> >
 >> > It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At
least in
 >> > San Jose.
 >> >
 >> > Anyone know anything about Webpass?
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > bp
 >> > 
 >> >
 >> > On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
 >> >
 >> > Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as
alternative to
 >> > fiber.
 >> > Interesting times!
 >> >
 >> >
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del
<http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del>
 >> > ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
 >> >
 >> >
 >>
 >>
 >

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

If the google fiber was a success it would be paying the way for the new 
deployments...   The halt is proof that it isn't.   The creation of the 
parent company was the proof that the blood letting was killing the 
golden calf...   Fat dumb and happy...   Just like smaller companies 
want them to be...


On 08/11/2016 05:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
primary focus going. :)

Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
billions upon billions of taxpayer money?

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the intention
of destroying other companies business.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:


You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
the
cancelled projects.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
wrote:


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
you
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
(read
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
the
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
San
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
Google
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities
would
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
existing
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
Google
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with
the
first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like
Kansas
City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
their
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign
ups
(in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
from
them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
can.
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
construction
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU
cases.
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it
risky
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity
short
hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
interference and capacity.

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from
the
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD
and
too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks
are too
far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
Google is
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people,
tools
and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they
have
a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not
real
good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
through
the eye of a needle.

-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wedne

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

wave to cross connect systems or bridge high
> >> >> construction
> >> >> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless
> to
> >> >> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU
> >> >> cases.
> >> >> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it
> >> >> risky
> >> >> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take
> rate
> >> >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity
> >> >> short
> >> >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
> >> >> interference and capacity.
> >> >>
> >> >> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to
> do
> >> >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from
> >> >> the
> >> >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with
> ADD
> >> >> and
> >> >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks
> >> >> are too
> >> >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
> >> >> Google is
> >> >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people,
> >> >> tools
> >> >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and
> they
> >> >> have
> >> >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not
> >> >> real
> >> >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank You,
> >> >> Brian Webster
> >> >> www.wirelessmapping.com
> >> >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
> >> >>
> >> >> -Original Message-
> >> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
> >> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >> >>
> >> >> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel
> >> >> through
> >> >> the eye of a needle.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Original Message-
> >> >> From: Josh Reynolds
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
> >> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >> >>
> >> >> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your
> >> >> WISP.
> >> >>
> >> >> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in
> >> >> the
> >> >> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
> >> >> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
> >> >>
> >> >> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which
> >> >> is
> >> >> evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
> >> >> appropriate
> >> >> one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple hundred
> >> >> thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same thing
> >> >> too.
> >> >> It's the smart play.
> >> >>
> >> >> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean
> "saying
> >> >> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Wait until they experience ducting ;)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - Original Message -
> >> >> > From: Bill Prince
> >> >> > To: af@afmug.com
> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least
> in
> >> >> > San Jose.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Anyone know anything about Webpass?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > bp
> >> >> > 
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative
> to
> >> >> > fiber.
> >> >> > Interesting times!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/
> 08/google-fiber-del
> >> >> > ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

;> take rate
>>  >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
>> capacity short
>>  >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
>> spectrum,
>>  >> interference and capacity.
>>  >>
>>  >> While we all would think Google is a great company with
>> resources to do
>>  >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot
>> from the
>>  >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings
>> with ADD and
>>  >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older
>> folks are too
>>  >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking
>> about. Google is
>>  >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
>> people, tools
>>  >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders
>> and they have
>>  >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are
>> not real
>>  >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
>>  >>
>>  >> Thank You,
>>  >> Brian Webster
>>  >> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
>>  >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com>
>>  >>
>>  >> -Original Message-
>>  >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
>>  >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>  >>
>>  >> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a
>> camel through
>>  >> the eye of a needle.
>>  >>
>>  >> -Original Message-
>>  >> From: Josh Reynolds
>>  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
>>  >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>      >>
>>  >> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with
>> your WISP.
>>  >>
>>  >> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
>> companies in the
>>  >> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the
>> best RF
>>  >> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
>>  >>
>>  >> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done,
>> which is
>>  >> evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most
>> appropriate
>>  >> one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple
>> hundred
>>  >> thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same
>> thing too.
>>  >> It's the smart play.
>>  >>
>>  >> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean
>> "saying
>>  >> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
>>  >>
>>  >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>>  >> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
>> wrote:
>>  >> >
>>  >> > Wait until they experience ducting ;)
>>  >> >
>>  >> >
>>  >> > - Original Message -
>>  >> > From: Bill Prince
>>  >> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>  >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
>>  >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>  >> >
>>  >> > It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At
>> least in
>>  >> > San Jose.
>>  >> >
>>  >> > Anyone know anything about Webpass?
>>  >> >
>>  >> >
>>  >> > bp
>>  >> > 
>>  >> >
>>  >> > On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>  >> >
>>  >> > Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as
>> alternative to
>>  >> > fiber.
>>  >> > Interesting times!
>>  >> >
>>  >> >
>> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/
>> google-fiber-del
>> <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/
>> google-fiber-del>
>>  >> > ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1
>>  >> >
>>  >> >
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/11/16 17:30, Josh Reynolds wrote:

"Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
worth $555 billion."

"The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.

That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
billion in 2017."

So, that may take awhile there Robert.



Or they'll become Weyland-Yutani or Umbrella.

What do you think about pre-breakup AT&T? Was the Bell system 
divestiture wrong?


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

It took a long while for MS to hit the slippery slope   And in worth 
at the time, MS was better off than google...   Yes search is growing 
like crazy still, but they see the scary part of the curve ahead..  It's 
a great company but is it IBM great?  is it PG great?  That is the proof 
of decades of success...   But that's because I'm old now and respect 
success/time a million times more than I did even when I was 40...   In 
10+ year of serious $$$ outlay they haven't gotten a success 1/10th of 
search... and their bigger successes at even that levels have been 
purchases...


On 08/11/2016 05:30 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/10/investing/google-alphabet-all-time-high/

"Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
worth $555 billion."

"The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.

That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
billion in 2017."

So, that may take awhile there Robert.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company..
They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will
eventually go down because of it...

On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups
(in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from
them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can.
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short
hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
interference and capacity.

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too
far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have
a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
the eye of a needle.

-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the
world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
engineering talent in the world on their payroll?

They're not doin

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

systems
 where they can.
  >> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or
bridge high
 construction
  >> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
 wireless to
  >> basically go more from the curb to the customer,
especially in
 MDU cases.
  >> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within
an MDU
 makes it risky
  >> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of
a huge
 take rate
  >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
 capacity short
  >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
 spectrum,
  >> interference and capacity.
  >>
  >> While we all would think Google is a great company with
 resources to do
  >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have
seen a lot
 from the
  >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty
somethings
 with ADD and
  >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude
that older
 folks are too
  >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking
 about. Google is
  >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
 people, tools
  >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best
cheerleaders
 and they have
  >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
internally and are
 not real
  >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
  >>
  >> Thank You,
  >> Brian Webster
  >> www.wirelessmapping.com
<http://www.wirelessmapping.com> <http://www.wirelessmapping.com
<http://www.wirelessmapping.com>>
  >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
<http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com>
<http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com
<http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com>>
      >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>
 <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>>] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
  >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
<mailto:af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
          >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >>
  >> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot
fit a
 camel through
  >> the eye of a needle.
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Josh Reynolds
  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
  >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
<mailto:af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >>
  >> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so
smug with
 your WISP.
  >>
  >> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
 companies in the
  >> world though. Do you really think they don't have some
of the
 best RF
  >> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
  >>
  >> They're not doing anything different than many of us
have done,
 which is
  >> evaluate the business case for each technology and pick
the most
 appropriate
  >> one for the application. If it was going to cost you a
couple
 hundred
  >> thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing
the same
 thing too.
  >> It's the smart play.
  >>
  >> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which
would mean
     "saying
      >> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".
  >>
  >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
  >> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
   

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

They got bigger than ever after the breakup + reacquisition.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> On 8/11/16 17:30, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> "Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
>> all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
>> worth $555 billion."
>>
>> "The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
>> envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
>> 15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.
>>
>> That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
>> Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
>> billion in 2017."
>>
>> So, that may take awhile there Robert.
>
>
>
> Or they'll become Weyland-Yutani or Umbrella.
>
> What do you think about pre-breakup AT&T? Was the Bell system divestiture
> wrong?
>
> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

Bell breakup was one of the biggest stimulus of technology in modern 
times.  It was also the ruination of one of the most reliable pieces of 
technology of modern times.   On the scales of history it will be a huge 
success by itself.  Considering the re-creation of at*t into a nasty 
little company with big teeth, it's a horrible result...


On 08/11/2016 05:41 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 8/11/16 17:30, Josh Reynolds wrote:

"Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
worth $555 billion."

"The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.

That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
billion in 2017."

So, that may take awhile there Robert.



Or they'll become Weyland-Yutani or Umbrella.

What do you think about pre-breakup AT&T? Was the Bell system
divestiture wrong?

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only after 
low hanging fruit.
And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied to 
those using the PSTN.
And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.


Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. 
Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a railroad, 
gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or telco, 
don't be a hater.


-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
primary focus going. :)

Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
billions upon billions of taxpayer money?

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the intention
of destroying other companies business.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:


You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
> the
> cancelled projects.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
> wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
>> you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
>> (read
>> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
>> the
>> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>> San
>> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>> Google
>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities
>> would
>> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
>> existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
>> Google
>> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with
>> the
>> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like
>> Kansas
>> City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>> their
>> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
>> pre-sign

>> ups
>> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem 
>> in
>> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This 
>> also

>> drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
>> from
>> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
>> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where 
>> they

>> can.
>> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
>> construction
>> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
>> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU
>> cases.
>> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it
>> risky
>> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take 
>> rate

>> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity
>> short
>> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
>> interference and capacity.
>>
>> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
>> do

>> whatever they set their minds to,

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Paul Stewart]

Yup .. and I sold out after much debate….$808 a share - originally bought at 
$293 so I’m happy… Also sold out of Apple shares this week - bought in at $1.03 
(yup, back in 2002) and sold at $107 … really really happy about that return ….

Not all my trades have this level of success but these definitely outweigh the 
losses many times over ;)


>> On 8/11/16 17:30, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>> 
>>> "Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
>>> all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
>>> worth $555 billion."
>>> 
>>> "The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
>>> envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
>>> 15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.
>>> 
>>> That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
>>> Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
>>> billion in 2017."
>>> 
>>> So, that may take awhile there Robert.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Or they'll become Weyland-Yutani or Umbrella.
>> 
>> What do you think about pre-breakup AT&T? Was the Bell system divestiture
>> wrong?
>> 
>> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Paul Stewart]

I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding the 
ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over the years 
but those phone networks were never actually *built* with taxpayers dollars - 
some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they wouldn’t normally serve and 
stuff but that’s different in my opinion …. 


> On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only after 
> low hanging fruit.
> And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied to 
> those using the PSTN.
> And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
> back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.
> 
> Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. Just 
> because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a railroad, gas 
> company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or telco, don't be 
> a hater.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> 
> They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
> primary focus going. :)
> 
> Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
> throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
> billions upon billions of taxpayer money?
> 
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
>> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
>> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).
>> 
>> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
>> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the intention
>> of destroying other companies business.
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
>>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
>>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.
>>> 
>>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
>>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
>>> projects / labs) will.
>>> 
>>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
>>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
>>> strategy.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
>>> > the
>>> > cancelled projects.
>>> >
>>> > Josh Luthman
>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > Suite 1337
>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
>>> >> you
>>> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>>> >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
>>> >> (read
>>> >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
>>> >> the
>>> >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>>> >> San
>>> >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>>> >> Google
>>> >> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities
>>> >> would
>>> >> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
>>> >> existing
>>> >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
>>> >> Google
>>> >> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with
>>> >> the
>>> >> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like
>>> >> Kansas
>>> >> City did).
>>> >>
>>> >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>>> >> their
&

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

LECS in the US generally get pretty low interest loans.  And with ROR 
regulation you are guaranteed that you can cover your costs.  If your 
revenue is deficient then the pooled USF and long distance access charges 
are split up according to need.  But no taxes are touched.  Without ROR 
regulation there would only be good utilities in cities.


-Original Message- 
From: Paul Stewart

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding 
the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over 
the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with 
taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they wouldn’t 
normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion ….




On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only 
after low hanging fruit.
And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied 
to those using the PSTN.
And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.


Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. 
Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a 
railroad, gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or 
telco, don't be a hater.


-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
primary focus going. :)

Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
billions upon billions of taxpayer money?

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the 
intention

of destroying other companies business.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:


You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
> the
> cancelled projects.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
> wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell

>> you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole 
>> owners

>> (read
>> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
>> the
>> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>> San
>> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>> Google
>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that 
>> cities

>> would
>> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
>> existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
>> Google
>> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with
>> the
>> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like
>> Kansas
>> City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>> their
>> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on >> 
>> pre-sign

>> ups
>> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem 
>>  >> in
>> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This >> 
>> also

>> drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
>> from
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

and WISPs and third party fiber providers and cable companies. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:28:18 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

LECS in the US generally get pretty low interest loans. And with ROR 
regulation you are guaranteed that you can cover your costs. If your 
revenue is deficient then the pooled USF and long distance access charges 
are split up according to need. But no taxes are touched. Without ROR 
regulation there would only be good utilities in cities. 

-Original Message- 
From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:05 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding 
the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over 
the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with 
taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they wouldn’t 
normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion …. 


> On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote: 
> 
> Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only 
> after low hanging fruit. 
> And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied 
> to those using the PSTN. 
> And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
> back in the day. It was a replacement to make them whole. 
> 
> Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. 
> Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a 
> railroad, gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or 
> telco, don't be a hater. 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds 
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 
> 
> They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their 
> primary focus going. :) 
> 
> Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to 
> throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received 
> billions upon billions of taxpayer money? 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman 
>  wrote: 
>> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money. Now Gmail kind of 
>> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product). 
>> 
>> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a 
>> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the 
>> intention 
>> of destroying other companies business. 
>> 
>> Josh Luthman 
>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>> 1100 Wayne St 
>> Suite 1337 
>> Troy, OH 45373 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look 
>>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be 
>>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well. 
>>> 
>>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards, 
>>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret 
>>> projects / labs) will. 
>>> 
>>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects, 
>>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business 
>>> strategy. 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman 
>>>  wrote: 
>>> > Who is we? I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all 
>>> > the 
>>> > cancelled projects. 
>>> > 
>>> > Josh Luthman 
>>> > Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> > 1100 Wayne St 
>>> > Suite 1337 
>>> > Troy, OH 45373 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster"  
>>> > wrote: 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>>> >> tell 
>>> >> you 
>>> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
>>> >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole 
>>> >> owners 
>>> >> (read 
>>> >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of 
>>> >> the 
>>> >> project de

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

CAF? Until recently that was only opened to LECs, and the bar seemed
very low for proving "service" in an area.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> LECS in the US generally get pretty low interest loans.  And with ROR
> regulation you are guaranteed that you can cover your costs.  If your
> revenue is deficient then the pooled USF and long distance access charges
> are split up according to need.  But no taxes are touched.  Without ROR
> regulation there would only be good utilities in cities.
>
> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:05 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding
> the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over
> the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with
> taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they
> wouldn’t normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion ….
>
>
>> On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only
>> after low hanging fruit.
>> And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied
>> to those using the PSTN.
>> And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell
>> back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.
>>
>> Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation.
>> Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a railroad,
>> gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or telco,
>> don't be a hater.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
>> primary focus going. :)
>>
>> Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
>> throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
>> billions upon billions of taxpayer money?
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
>>
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
>>> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).
>>>
>>> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
>>> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the
>>> intention
>>> of destroying other companies business.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
>>>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
>>>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.
>>>>
>>>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
>>>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
>>>> projects / labs) will.
>>>>
>>>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
>>>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
>>>> strategy.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> > Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
>>>> > the
>>>> > cancelled projects.
>>>> >
>>>> > Josh Luthman
>>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>>> > Suite 1337
>>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can >>
>>>> >> tell
>>>> >> you
>>>> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>>>> >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole >>
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

CAF is a very new thing and USAC administers it.

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

CAF? Until recently that was only opened to LECs, and the bar seemed
very low for proving "service" in an area.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

LECS in the US generally get pretty low interest loans.  And with ROR
regulation you are guaranteed that you can cover your costs.  If your
revenue is deficient then the pooled USF and long distance access charges
are split up according to need.  But no taxes are touched.  Without ROR
regulation there would only be good utilities in cities.

-Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding
the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over
the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with
taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they
wouldn’t normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion ….



On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only
after low hanging fruit.
And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied
to those using the PSTN.
And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell
back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.

Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation.
Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a 
railroad,

gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or telco,
don't be a hater.

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
primary focus going. :)

Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
billions upon billions of taxpayer money?

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman

 wrote:


Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the
intention
of destroying other companies business.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:



You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
> the
> cancelled projects.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
> wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can >>
>> tell
>> you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole >>
>> owners
>> (read
>> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
>> of

>> the
>> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose 
>> and

>> San
>> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money 
>> than

>> Google
>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that >>
>> cities
>> would
>> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
>> existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
>> Google
>> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had 
>> with

>> the
>> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like
>> Kansas
>> City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>> their
>> netwo

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_carrier

Common carriage dates to the Roman Empire.  How things got done.

As a provider of last resort (POLR) LECS have a "duty to serve".
They must serve irrespective of the economics of the situation.  If it is 
tariffed, you gotta sell it, even at a loss.  That is the law.


Do you want a piece of that action???

This nation has a goal of "Universal Service".  That does not happen in 
areas that are uneconomic to serve without the pooling mechanisms.


Providing reliable 911 service to every jackrabbit and sagebrush that wants 
it costs a ton of money.

Hate it all you want but the system got the job done.

Millennials and younger believe that broadband should be ubiquitous, a 
birthright,  dial tone is worthless.   They have no problem stealing wifi 
wherever they can.


OK, fine, now every jackrabbit and gets broadband.  Free broadband for all, 
right Hillary...


Well how about central heating districts in the rural areas, and water and 
sewer.  How about mass transit to the farm.

Perhaps the grand canyon needs a subway system.

Where do you draw the line?
Who draws the line?



-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

LECS in the US generally get pretty low interest loans.  And with ROR
regulation you are guaranteed that you can cover your costs.  If your
revenue is deficient then the pooled USF and long distance access charges
are split up according to need.  But no taxes are touched.  Without ROR
regulation there would only be good utilities in cities.

-Original Message- 
From: Paul Stewart

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding
the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over
the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with
taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they wouldn’t
normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion ….



On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only 
after low hanging fruit.
And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied 
to those using the PSTN.
And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.


Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. 
Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a 
railroad, gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or 
telco, don't be a hater.


-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
primary focus going. :)

Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
billions upon billions of taxpayer money?

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the 
intention

of destroying other companies business.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:


You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
> the
> cancelled projects.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
> wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell

>> you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole 
>> owners

>> (read
>> competitors 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

Right, but it's just taking money away from other USDA telecom programs, which 
were LEC only. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:17:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

CAF is a very new thing and USAC administers it. 

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:48 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

CAF? Until recently that was only opened to LECs, and the bar seemed 
very low for proving "service" in an area. 

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote: 
> LECS in the US generally get pretty low interest loans. And with ROR 
> regulation you are guaranteed that you can cover your costs. If your 
> revenue is deficient then the pooled USF and long distance access charges 
> are split up according to need. But no taxes are touched. Without ROR 
> regulation there would only be good utilities in cities. 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart 
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:05 PM 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 
> 
> I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding 
> the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over 
> the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with 
> taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they 
> wouldn’t normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion …. 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote: 
>> 
>> Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only 
>> after low hanging fruit. 
>> And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied 
>> to those using the PSTN. 
>> And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
>> back in the day. It was a replacement to make them whole. 
>> 
>> Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. 
>> Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a 
>> railroad, 
>> gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or telco, 
>> don't be a hater. 
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM 
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 
>> 
>> They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their 
>> primary focus going. :) 
>> 
>> Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to 
>> throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received 
>> billions upon billions of taxpayer money? 
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> 
>>  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money. Now Gmail kind of 
>>> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product). 
>>> 
>>> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a 
>>> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the 
>>> intention 
>>> of destroying other companies business. 
>>> 
>>> Josh Luthman 
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> 1100 Wayne St 
>>> Suite 1337 
>>> Troy, OH 45373 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look 
>>>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be 
>>>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well. 
>>>> 
>>>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards, 
>>>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret 
>>>> projects / labs) will. 
>>>> 
>>>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects, 
>>>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business 
>>>> strategy. 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman 
>>>>  wrote: 
>>>> > Who is we? I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all 
>>>> > the 
>>>> > cancelled projects. 
>>>> > 
>>>> > Josh Luthman 
>>>> > Office: 937-552-

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Eric Kuhnke]

That $107 was after several splits as well, right?

On Aug 11, 2016 6:02 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:

> Yup .. and I sold out after much debate….$808 a share - originally bought
> at $293 so I’m happy… Also sold out of Apple shares this week - bought in
> at $1.03 (yup, back in 2002) and sold at $107 … really really happy about
> that return ….
>
> Not all my trades have this level of success but these definitely outweigh
> the losses many times over ;)
>
>
> >> On 8/11/16 17:30, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
> >>> all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
> >>> worth $555 billion."
> >>>
> >>> "The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
> >>> envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
> >>> 15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.
> >>>
> >>> That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
> >>> Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
> >>> billion in 2017."
> >>>
> >>> So, that may take awhile there Robert.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Or they'll become Weyland-Yutani or Umbrella.
> >>
> >> What do you think about pre-breakup AT&T? Was the Bell system
> divestiture
> >> wrong?
> >>
> >> ~Seth
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Eric Kuhnke]

Except for northwestel/bell and all the subsidies for telesat c-band based
internet and phone in the arctic...

Well actually all of Nunavut would collapse without several billion dollars
from Ottawa every year.

On Aug 11, 2016 6:05 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:

> I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding
> the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over
> the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with
> taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they
> wouldn’t normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion ….
>
>
> > On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> >
> > Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only
> after low hanging fruit.
> > And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only
> applied to those using the PSTN.
> > And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from
> MaBell back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.
> >
> > Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation.
> Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a
> railroad, gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or
> telco, don't be a hater.
> >
> > -Original Message----- From: Josh Reynolds
> > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> >
> > They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
> > primary focus going. :)
> >
> > Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
> > throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
> > billions upon billions of taxpayer money?
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
> >  wrote:
> >> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
> >> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).
> >>
> >> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
> >> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the
> intention
> >> of destroying other companies business.
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
> >>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
> >>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.
> >>>
> >>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
> >>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
> >>> projects / labs) will.
> >>>
> >>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
> >>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
> >>> strategy.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
> >>>  wrote:
> >>> > Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
> >>> > the
> >>> > cancelled projects.
> >>> >
> >>> > Josh Luthman
> >>> > Office: 937-552-2340
> >>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> >>> > 1100 Wayne St
> >>> > Suite 1337
> >>> > Troy, OH 45373
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
> tell
> >>> >> you
> >>> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
> >>> >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole
> owners
> >>> >> (read
> >>> >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more
> of
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose
> and
> >>> >> San
> >>> >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money
> than
> >>> >> Google
> >>> >> budgeted for. In some respects 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Travis Johnson]

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.


"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless."


I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month.


Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing.


Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
& yes they will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
deployment. This also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They 
are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the 
customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if 
they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I 
see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last 
mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, 
interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot 
from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
know what they are talking about. Google is certainly not a utility 
infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and skill sets to 
be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not 
real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.


We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in 
the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the 
best RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?


They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which 
is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most 
appropriate one for the application. If it was going to cost you a 
couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, you'

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Travis Johnson]

Walmart is doing over $450 Billion per year, and they actually have 
assets to back it up.


Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:30 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/10/investing/google-alphabet-all-time-high/

"Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
worth $555 billion."

"The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.

That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
billion in 2017."

So, that may take awhile there Robert.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company..
They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will
eventually go down because of it...

On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups
(in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from
them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can.
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short
hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
interference and capacity.

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too
far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have
a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
the eye of a needle.

-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the
world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
engineering talent in the world on their payroll?

They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which is
evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most appropriate
one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple hundred
thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same thing too.
It's the smart play.

At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying
they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 wro

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/11/16 8:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
let's look at wireless."



The Google Fiber model seemed to rely on cities bending over backwards 
begging Google to pick them and because they were so desperate to be 
chosen they'd remove any obstacles leaving Google to just show up and do 
whatever.


And then they rolled up to a big city that already has a dozen other 
companies doing (or trying to do) the same thing and their model fell 
flat. So someone was all hey we've got money let's just buy some company 
that was successful in San Fransisco to solve the problem. Thus they 
bought Webpass and are attempting to pivot.


It's like nobody bothered to actually plan it, just full speed ahead 
with our checkbook and branding. At least that's my impression of Google 
Fiber.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

Remember MySpace?

Easy come.  Easy go.


bp


On 8/11/2016 9:27 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I think that facebook won't be far behind. Let's have this 
conversation again in 2026.



bp


On 8/11/2016 8:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.


"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless."


I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and 
yet they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I 
doubt Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several 
e-commerce companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend 
a dime with Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it 
generates $400k in sales, per month.


Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that 
means someone else can do the same thing.


Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience 
pile...  & yes they will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take 
pause on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist 
attitude of pole owners (read competitors to their broadband 
deployment). This forced a lot more of the project deigns to 
underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco, 
there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that 
cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. 
With so much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly 
not the case. I think Google thought all cities were going to have 
the attitude like they had with the first cities who applied for 
Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based 
on pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
logistic problem in planning construction especially with 
underground deployment. This also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will 
see from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up 
dark fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber 
systems where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect 
systems or bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad 
crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing 
competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky 
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take 
rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high 
capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have 
challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources 
to do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a 
lot from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
know what they are talking about. Google is certainly not a utility 
infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and skill sets to 
be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not 
real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.


We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies 
in the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of 
the best RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?


They're not doing anything dif

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

I think that facebook won't be far behind. Let's have this conversation 
again in 2026.



bp


On 8/11/2016 8:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.


"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless."


I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and 
yet they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I 
doubt Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month.


Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing.


Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
& yes they will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take 
pause on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude 
of pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). 
This forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground 
deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a 
lot of requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. 
In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much 
existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. 
I think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude 
like they had with the first cities who applied for Google to come 
to their cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
logistic problem in planning construction especially with 
underground deployment. This also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will 
see from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up 
dark fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber 
systems where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect 
systems or bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad 
crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing 
competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky 
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take 
rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high 
capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have 
challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot 
from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
know what they are talking about. Google is certainly not a utility 
infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and skill sets to 
be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not 
real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.


We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies 
in the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the 
best RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?


They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, 
which is evaluate the business case for each technology

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Travis Johnson]

You will have to change your email address before then... LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 10:27 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I think that facebook won't be far behind. Let's have this 
conversation again in 2026.



bp


On 8/11/2016 8:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.


"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless."


I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and 
yet they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I 
doubt Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several 
e-commerce companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend 
a dime with Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it 
generates $400k in sales, per month.


Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that 
means someone else can do the same thing.


Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience 
pile...  & yes they will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take 
pause on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist 
attitude of pole owners (read competitors to their broadband 
deployment). This forced a lot more of the project deigns to 
underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco, 
there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that 
cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. 
With so much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly 
not the case. I think Google thought all cities were going to have 
the attitude like they had with the first cities who applied for 
Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based 
on pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
logistic problem in planning construction especially with 
underground deployment. This also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will 
see from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up 
dark fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber 
systems where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect 
systems or bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad 
crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing 
competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky 
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take 
rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high 
capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have 
challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources 
to do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a 
lot from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
know what they are talking about. Google is certainly not a utility 
infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and skill sets to 
be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not 
real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.


We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies 
in the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of 
the best RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?


They'r

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped 
paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.


-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. 
They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will 
eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell 
you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners 
(read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
of the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose 
and San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money 
than Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea 
that cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. 
With so much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not 
the case. I think Google thought all cities were going to have the 
attitude like they had with the first cities who applied for Google to 
come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem 
in planning construction especially with underground deployment. This 
also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, 
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they 
can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high 
construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at 
wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially 
in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an 
MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of 
a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a 
high capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have 
challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the 
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD 
and too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks 
are too far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking 
about. Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack 
the people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own best 
cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype 
internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and 
outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the 
world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF 
engineering talent in the world on their payr

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[info]

I think the difference between google and facebook and even more so 
tesla is how driven the people on top are.   Google is now in what I 
call fiefdomville, where the execs below the top have built their 
kingdoms and are struggling to stay on top and those above pretty much 
have everything their heart desires and the drive to the next big thing 
has left.   FB and tesla still have one person on top that wants a _lot_ 
more for their future and specially in Tesla's case has a huge goal far 
out on the horizon to poke them in the ass to reach far each and every 
day..  Bezos at amazon is also in that camp to a degree...   As I like 
to say..  Where's google's spaceship?



On 8/11/16 9:27 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I think that facebook won't be far behind. Let's have this 
conversation again in 2026.



bp


On 8/11/2016 8:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.


"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless."


I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and 
yet they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I 
doubt Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several 
e-commerce companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend 
a dime with Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it 
generates $400k in sales, per month.


Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that 
means someone else can do the same thing.


Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience 
pile...  & yes they will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take 
pause on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist 
attitude of pole owners (read competitors to their broadband 
deployment). This forced a lot more of the project deigns to 
underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco, 
there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that 
cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. 
With so much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly 
not the case. I think Google thought all cities were going to have 
the attitude like they had with the first cities who applied for 
Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based 
on pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
logistic problem in planning construction especially with 
underground deployment. This also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will 
see from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up 
dark fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber 
systems where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect 
systems or bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad 
crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing 
competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky 
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take 
rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high 
capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have 
challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources 
to do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a 
lot from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
know what they are talking about. Google is certainly not a utility 
infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and skill sets to 
be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not 
real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Gino Villarini]

We only fo FB mktg now too... as of today, the best bang for buck

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped
> paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.
>
> -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>
> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
> fiber everywhere!"
> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
> let's look at wireless."
>
> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
> $400k in sales, per month.
>
> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
> someone else can do the same thing.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>
>> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company..
>> They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will
>> eventually go down because of it...
>>
>> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>
>>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
>>> you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
>>> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
>>> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>>> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>>> Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
>>> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
>>> much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
>>> think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
>>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
>>> (Like Kansas City did).
>>>
>>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
>>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
>>> problem in planning construction especially with underground deployment.
>>> This also drove up costs.
>>>
>>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
>>> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
>>> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
>>> can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
>>> construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
>>> wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
>>> MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
>>> makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
>>> huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
>>> capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
>>> spectrum, interference and capacity.
>>>
>>> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
>>> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
>>> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
>>> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are
>>> too far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
>>> Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
>>> people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own best
>>> cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
>>> internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and
>>> outs

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert]

lessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-----
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with 
your WISP.


We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies 
in the world though. Do you really think they don't have some of 
the best RF engineering talent in the world on their payroll?


They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, 
which is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick 
the most appropriate one for the application. If it was going to 
cost you a couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, 
you'd be doing the same thing too. It's the smart play.


At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean 
"saying they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".


On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:


Wait until they experience ducting ;)


- Original Message -
From: Bill Prince
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in
San Jose.

Anyone know anything about Webpass?


bp


On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as 
alternative to

fiber.
Interesting times!

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del 


ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Paul Stewart]

Yes correct… 7 for 1 split back in 2014 ….  :)


> On Aug 11, 2016, at 10:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
> 
> That $107 was after several splits as well, right?
> 
> 
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:02 PM, "Paul Stewart"  > wrote:
> Yup .. and I sold out after much debate….$808 a share - originally bought at 
> $293 so I’m happy… Also sold out of Apple shares this week - bought in at 
> $1.03 (yup, back in 2002) and sold at $107 … really really happy about that 
> return ….
> 
> Not all my trades have this level of success but these definitely outweigh 
> the losses many times over ;)
> 
> 
> >> On 8/11/16 17:30, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
> >>> all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
> >>> worth $555 billion."
> >>>
> >>> "The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
> >>> envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
> >>> 15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.
> >>>
> >>> That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
> >>> Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
> >>> billion in 2017."
> >>>
> >>> So, that may take awhile there Robert.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Or they'll become Weyland-Yutani or Umbrella.
> >>
> >> What do you think about pre-breakup AT&T? Was the Bell system divestiture
> >> wrong?
> >>
> >> ~Seth
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat." 

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Travis Johnson"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
> company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile... 
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it... 
> 
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
>> cities (Like Kansas City did). 
>> 
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
>> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
>> deployment. This also drove up costs. 
>> 
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
>> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
>> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
>> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
>> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They 
>> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the 
>> customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
>> existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if 
>> they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I 
>> see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last 
>> mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, 
>> interference and capacity. 
>> 
>> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
>> do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot 
>> from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
>> somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
>> attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
>> know what they are talking about. Google is certainly not a utility 
>> infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and skill sets to 
>> be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
>> dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not 
>> real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input. 
>> 
>> Thank You, 
>> Brian Webster 
>> www.wirelessmapping.com 
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com 
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

I didn't know people that had jobs went to Burning Man. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Robert"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 4:26:26 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

Also, who shows up at Burning Man... Going there, to me, is not what 
someone who is working hard each and every day does. 


On 8/12/16 2:19 AM, i...@avantwireless.com wrote: 
> I think the difference between google and facebook and even more so 
> tesla is how driven the people on top are. Google is now in what I 
> call fiefdomville, where the execs below the top have built their 
> kingdoms and are struggling to stay on top and those above pretty much 
> have everything their heart desires and the drive to the next big 
> thing has left. FB and tesla still have one person on top that wants 
> a _lot_ more for their future and specially in Tesla's case has a huge 
> goal far out on the horizon to poke them in the ass to reach far each 
> and every day.. Bezos at amazon is also in that camp to a degree... 
> As I like to say.. Where's google's spaceship? 
> 
> 
> On 8/11/16 9:27 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
>> I think that facebook won't be far behind. Let's have this 
>> conversation again in 2026. 
>> 
>> 
>> bp 
>>  
>> 
>> On 8/11/2016 8:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 
>>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
>>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 
>>> 
>>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
>>> fiber everywhere!" 
>>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
>>> let's look at wireless." 
>>> 
>>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and 
>>> yet they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I 
>>> doubt Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several 
>>> e-commerce companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend 
>>> a dime with Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and 
>>> it generates $400k in sales, per month. 
>>> 
>>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
>>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
>>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that 
>>> means someone else can do the same thing. 
>>> 
>>> Travis 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 
>>>> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
>>>> company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience 
>>>> pile... & yes they will eventually go down because of it... 
>>>> 
>>>> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 
>>>>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>>>>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take 
>>>>> pause on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist 
>>>>> attitude of pole owners (read competitors to their broadband 
>>>>> deployment). This forced a lot more of the project deigns to 
>>>>> underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco, 
>>>>> there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
>>>>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that 
>>>>> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. 
>>>>> With so much existing broadband already in place, this is 
>>>>> certainly not the case. I think Google thought all cities were 
>>>>> going to have the attitude like they had with the first cities who 
>>>>> applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did). 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and 
>>>>> permit their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy 
>>>>> based on pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates 
>>>>> a huge logistic problem in planning construction especially with 
>>>>> underground deployment. This also drove up costs. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will 
>>>>> see from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Mike,

Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And
theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic
once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and
accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both start with the same
letter).

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."
>
> How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures
> of their genitals?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Travis Johnson" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>
> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
> fiber everywhere!"
> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
> let's look at wireless."
>
> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
> $400k in sales, per month.
>
> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
> someone else can do the same thing.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
> > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...
> > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
> >
> > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
> >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause
> >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of
> >> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This
> >> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In
> >> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of
> >> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some
> >> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove
> >> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
> >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
> >> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
> >> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their
> >> cities (Like Kansas City did).
> >>
> >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
> >> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
> >> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge
> >> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground
> >> deployment. This also drove up costs.
> >>
> >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
> >> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark
> >> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems
> >> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or
> >> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They
> >> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the
> >> customer, especially 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my 
genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is... underage 
dick pics. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Mike, 


Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter). 


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat." 

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
> company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile... 
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it... 
> 
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
>> cities (Like Kansas City did). 
>> 
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
>> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
>> deployment. This also drove up costs. 
>> 
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
>> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
>> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
>> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
>> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They 
>> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the 
>> customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
>> existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if 
>> they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I 
>> see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last 
>> mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, 
>> interference and capacity. 
>> 
>> While we all would think Google 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

What happened to this thread

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 12, 2016 8:12 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my
> genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is...
> underage dick pics.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Mike,
>
> Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics
> of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And
> theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic
> once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and
> accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both start with the same
> letter).
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."
>>
>> How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures
>> of their genitals?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Travis Johnson" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>
>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>> fiber everywhere!"
>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>> let's look at wireless."
>>
>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>
>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
>> > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...
>> > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>> >
>> > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause
>> >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of
>> >> pole owners (read c

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Maybe thats what it started out as but i know a ton of 30+year old people
that use it. Actually know some people in their 50's that have it. I know
one thing it is generating enough traffic to register in my Procera box...

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my
> genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is...
> underage dick pics.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Mike,
>
> Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics
> of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And
> theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic
> once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and
> accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both start with the same
> letter).
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."
>>
>> How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures
>> of their genitals?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Travis Johnson" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>
>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>> fiber everywhere!"
>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>> let's look at wireless."
>>
>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>
>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
>> > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...
>> > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>> >
>> > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause
>> >> on t

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

What eventually happens to most Internet discussion? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:14:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


What happened to this thread 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 


On Aug 12, 2016 8:12 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my 
genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is... underage 
dick pics. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Mike, 


Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter). 


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat." 

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
> company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile... 
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it... 
> 
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
>> cities (Like Kansas City did). 
>> 
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
>> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
>> deployment. This also drove up costs. 
>> 
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
>> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
>> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
>> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
>> bridge high construction cost areas such a

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

One person yells noob and the other gets the admin to ban him.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 12, 2016 8:24 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> What eventually happens to most Internet discussion?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:14:31 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> What happened to this thread
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Aug 12, 2016 8:12 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my
>> genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is...
>> underage dick pics.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics
>> of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And
>> theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic
>> once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and
>> accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both start with the same
>> letter).
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."
>>>
>>> How people communicate is compared to how people send each other
>>> pictures of their genitals?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Travis Johnson" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>
>>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>>
>>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mark Radabaugh]

You don’t think 11 Billion dollars being sent to the ILEC’s like Centurylink, 
Frontier, AT&T, etc. over the next 6 years to deploy 10/1 internet using CAF 
USF funds doesn’t count as taxpayer money?

Pretty fine line calling a mandatory fee on your phone "not tax dollars”.

Mark

> On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only after 
> low hanging fruit.
> And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied to 
> those using the PSTN.
> And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
> back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.
> 
> Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. Just 
> because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a railroad, gas 
> company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or telco, don't be 
> a hater.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
> 
> They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
> primary focus going. :)
> 
> Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
> throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
> billions upon billions of taxpayer money?
> 
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
>> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
>> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).
>> 
>> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
>> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the intention
>> of destroying other companies business.
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
>>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
>>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.
>>> 
>>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
>>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
>>> projects / labs) will.
>>> 
>>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
>>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
>>> strategy.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
>>> > the
>>> > cancelled projects.
>>> >
>>> > Josh Luthman
>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > Suite 1337
>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
>>> >> you
>>> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>>> >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
>>> >> (read
>>> >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
>>> >> the
>>> >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>>> >> San
>>> >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>>> >> Google
>>> >> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities
>>> >> would
>>> >> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
>>> >> existing
>>> >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
>>> >> Google
>>> >> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with
>>> >> the
>>> >> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like
>>> >> Kansas
>>> >> City did).
>>> >>
>>> >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>>> >> their
>>> >> networks and then cherry pick neig

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Ken Hohhof]

“Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse.”

That makes me want to use it even less than Mike’s description.


From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Maybe thats what it started out as but i know a ton of 30+year old people that 
use it. Actually know some people in their 50's that have it. I know one thing 
it is generating enough traffic to register in my Procera box...

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my 
genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is...  underage 
dick pics.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  Mike,  

  Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures 
of their genitals?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 

    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
> company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
>> cities (Like Kansas City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
>> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
>> deployment. This also drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
>> from them sh

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert]

The founders of Google have made going to BM a part of Silly Valley 
culture for startups.



On 8/12/16 4:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I didn't know people that had jobs went to Burning Man.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Robert" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 4:26:26 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Also, who shows up at Burning Man...  Going there, to me, is not what
someone who is working hard each and every day does.


On 8/12/16 2:19 AM, i...@avantwireless.com wrote:
> I think the difference between google and facebook and even more so
> tesla is how driven the people on top are.   Google is now in what I
> call fiefdomville, where the execs below the top have built their
> kingdoms and are struggling to stay on top and those above pretty much
> have everything their heart desires and the drive to the next big
> thing has left.   FB and tesla still have one person on top that wants
> a _lot_ more for their future and specially in Tesla's case has a huge
> goal far out on the horizon to poke them in the ass to reach far each
> and every day.. Bezos at amazon is also in that camp to a degree...
> As I like to say..  Where's google's spaceship?
>
>
> On 8/11/16 9:27 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> I think that facebook won't be far behind. Let's have this
>> conversation again in 2026.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 8:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>>
>>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>>> fiber everywhere!"
>>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>>> let's look at wireless."
>>>
>>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and
>>> yet they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I
>>> doubt Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several
>>> e-commerce companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend
>>> a dime with Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and
>>> it generates $400k in sales, per month.
>>>
>>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that
>>> means someone else can do the same thing.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
>>>> company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience
>>>> pile...  & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>>>>
>>>> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>>>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>>>>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take
>>>>> pause on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist
>>>>> attitude of pole owners (read competitors to their broadband
>>>>> deployment). This forced a lot more of the project deigns to
>>>>> underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco,
>>>>> there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google
>>>>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
>>>>> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city.
>>>>> With so much existing broadband already in place, this is
>>>>> certainly not the case. I think Google thought all cities were
>>>>> going to have the attitude like they had with the first cities who
>>>>> applied for Google to 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bruce Robertson]

nally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints 
and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a 
camel through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with 
your WISP.


We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful 
companies in the world though. Do you really think they don't 
have some of the best RF engineering talent in the world on their 
payroll?


They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, 
which is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick 
the most appropriate one for the application. If it was going to 
cost you a couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection, 
you'd be doing the same thing too. It's the smart play.


At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean 
"saying they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".


On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:


Wait until they experience ducting ;)


----- Original Message -
From: Bill Prince
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At 
least in

San Jose.

Anyone know anything about Webpass?


bp


On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as 
alternative to

fiber.
Interesting times!

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del 


ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1


















!DSPAM:2,57ad9648120381787451143!

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

heerleaders
and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints
and outside input.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a
camel through the eye of a needle.

-Original Message-----
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with
your WISP.

We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful
companies in the world though. Do you really think they don't
have some of the best RF engineering talent in the world on their
payroll?

They're not doing anything different than many of us have done,
which is evaluate the business case for each technology and pick
the most appropriate one for the application. If it was going to
cost you a couple hundred thousand just to cross an intersection,
you'd be doing the same thing too. It's the smart play.

At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean
"saying they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies".

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:


Wait until they experience ducting ;)


- Original Message -
From: Bill Prince
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At
least in
San Jose.

Anyone know anything about Webpass?


bp


On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as
alternative to
fiber.
Interesting times!

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del

ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1


















!DSPAM:2,57ad9648120381787451143!

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

You sure it  was an accident???

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Mike,  

Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

  How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Travis Johnson" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
  > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
  > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
  >
  > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
  >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
  >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
  >> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
  >> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
  >> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
  >> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
  >> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
  >> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
  >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
  >> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
  >> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
  >> cities (Like Kansas City did).
  >>
  >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
  >> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
  >> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
  >> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
  >> deployment. This also drove up costs.
  >>
  >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
  >> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
  >> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
  >> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
  >> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They 
  >> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the 
  >> customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
  >> existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if 
  >> they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I 
  >> see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last 
  >> mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, 
  >> interference and capacity.
  >>
  >> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
  >> do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot 
  >> from the inside. I like to equate them to 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

All internet roads end in porn

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

What eventually happens to most Internet discussion?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:14:31 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


What happened to this thread

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 12, 2016 8:12 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my 
genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is...  underage 
dick pics.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  Mike,  

  Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures 
of their genitals?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
> company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
>> cities (Like Kansas City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
>> logistic problem in planning construction especially w

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

No, I don't.

First of all, the billions of dollars are already there and have been 
flowing for decades.  And those billions have never been tax money.  This is 
not new money, it is changing how existing streams of money are flowing. 
And it is reducing the overall amount of support for all telcos.   Those 
electing ACAM are going on an equalizer system for 10 years and may have 
nothing at the end.  Those electing legacy ROR support have their ROR 
reduced every year for like the next 6 years.


I remember when the HCLS and  ICLS and all the other access charge 
mechanisms were invented.  I remember when NECA was created during 
divestiture.  No taxes were or are involved.  Originally this was all about 
taking long distance revenue away from AT&T and forcing them to share it 
with others that owned part of the highway too.  How was that ever a tax?


If you don't use the PSTN you don't pay in.
Just like the extra fees on your airline ticket are not taxes.  Don't fly 
don't pay.


ICLS-CAF and all the other streams of support are at an all time low and are 
on a glide path toward zero.
If you think that the creation of the nations infrastructure by forced 
balancing of revenues was a bad thing you should rejoice that the  old and 
very lucrative support system is going away.


https://www.fcc.gov/general/rate-return-resources



-Original Message- 
From: Mark Radabaugh

Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You don’t think 11 Billion dollars being sent to the ILEC’s like 
Centurylink, Frontier, AT&T, etc. over the next 6 years to deploy 10/1 
internet using CAF USF funds doesn’t count as taxpayer money?


Pretty fine line calling a mandatory fee on your phone "not tax dollars”.

Mark


On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only 
after low hanging fruit.
And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied 
to those using the PSTN.
And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
back in the day.  It was a replacement to make them whole.


Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. 
Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a 
railroad, gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or 
telco, don't be a hater.


-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their
primary focus going. :)

Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to
throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received
billions upon billions of taxpayer money?

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of
does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the 
intention

of destroying other companies business.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:


You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all
> the
> cancelled projects.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" 
> wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>> tell

>> you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole 
>> owners

>> (read
>> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
>> the
>> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>> San
>> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>> Google
>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that 
>> cit

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Travis Johnson]

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them 
probably don't use FB. LOL


Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally 
stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.


-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
& yes they will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take 
pause on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude 
of pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). 
This forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground 
deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a 
lot of requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. 
In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much 
existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. 
I think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude 
like they had with the first cities who applied for Google to come 
to their cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
logistic problem in planning construction especially with 
underground deployment. This also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will 
see from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up 
dark fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber 
systems where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect 
systems or bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad 
crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing 
competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky 
to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take 
rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high 
capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have 
challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot 
from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
know what they are talking about. Google is certainly not a utility 
infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and skill sets to 
be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not 
real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through the eye of a needle.


-Original Message-
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your 
WISP.


We're talking about one of the largest a

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

Well, I  presume all the folks on this list and WISPA use FB.  We sell 
bazillions of surge suppressors, stingers and tower mounts, not sure where 
they go but folks are finding me somehow.


-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 9:13 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them
probably don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped 
paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.


-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. 
They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they 
will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell 
you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners 
(read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
of the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose 
and San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money 
than Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea 
that cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. 
With so much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not 
the case. I think Google thought all cities were going to have the 
attitude like they had with the first cities who applied for Google to 
come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).


Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
deployment. This also drove up costs.


Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are 
looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, 
especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts 
within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure 
themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play 
as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will 
have challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity.


While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from 
the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with 
ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older 
folks are too far behind the times to possibly know what they are 
talking about. Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company 
and lack the people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own 
best cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own 
hype internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints 
and outside input.


Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

They may have great RF engineers, but 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

LOL!

I love this list!


bp


On 8/12/2016 7:53 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

You sure it  was an accident???
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Mike,
Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending 
pics of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or 
worse. And theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen 
a genital pic once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his 
girlfriend and accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both 
start with the same letter).
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:


"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other
pictures of their genitals?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Travis Johnson" mailto:t...@ida.net>>
    *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources,
and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that
means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
> company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience
pile...
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take
pause
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground
deployment. In
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In
some
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
think
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like
they
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their
>> cities (Like Kansas City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and
permit
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy
based on
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge
>> logistic problem in planning construction especially with
underground
>> deployment. This also drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you
will see
>> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark
&

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Ken Hohhof]

Was it this guy?

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You sure it  was an accident???

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Mike,  

Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

  How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Travis Johnson" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
  > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
  > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
  >
  > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
  >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
  >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
  >> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
  >> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
  >> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
  >> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
  >> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
  >> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
  >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
  >> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
  >> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
  >> cities (Like Kansas City did).
  >>
  >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
  >> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
  >> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
  >> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
  >> deployment. This also drove up costs.
  >>
  >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
  >> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
  >> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
  >> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
  >> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They 
  >> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the 
  >> customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
  >> existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if 
  >> they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I 
  >> see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last 
  >> mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, 
  >> interference and capacity.
  >>
  >> While we all would think Google is a great company with r

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

I thought the G was funding the moon X-prize?

bp


On 8/12/2016 7:49 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
And is besties with Page and Brin...  maybe I have it wrong and spacex 
is google's spaceship.. 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

+1.

My small circle of friends mainly use Whatsapp because it's cheaper for 
a couple of the guys that have to travel to Mexico regularly.


Otherwise, just generic texting, and a little slack for work-related things.

I stay away from pretty much all so-called social networking anything. 
Massive time sink IMO.



bp


On 8/12/2016 6:28 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

“Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse.”
That makes me want to use it even less than Mike’s description.
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:15 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Maybe thats what it started out as but i know a ton of 30+year old 
people that use it. Actually know some people in their 50's that have 
it. I know one thing it is generating enough traffic to register in my 
Procera box...
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Mike Hammett <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:


I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to
show my genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what
Snapchat is... underage dick pics.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
    *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Mike,
Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than
sending pics of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like
facebook or worse. And theres alot more on it than genitals.
Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that was a friend of
mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked my
name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

How people communicate is compared to how people send each
other pictures of their genitals?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
--------------------
*From: *"Travis Johnson" mailto:t...@ida.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20
years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are
doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that
model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those
resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I
doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a
dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it
generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is
compared to
texting... and the way tex

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

I had a business partner that would take  nude selfies and bring his camera to 
the office to be downloaded and printed.  

He didn’t know how to do it  so he would ask my assistant.  I would normally 
intercept the camera, pull up the images on my computer and  ask him if he 
really wanted those types  of  photos printed... he would always act shocked 
and say he didn’t know how those images got there.

I  knew what he was doing.  Just trying to intervene and prevent others from 
having to see that.  We are  lucky no law suits resulted.  But I  do have 
permanent brain damage from it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 9:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Was it this guy?

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You sure it  was an accident???

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Mike,  

Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

  How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Travis Johnson" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
  > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
  > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
  >
  > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
  >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
  >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
  >> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
  >> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
  >> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
  >> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
  >> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
  >> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
  >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
  >> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
  >> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
  >> cities (Like Kansas City did).
  >>
  >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
  >> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
  >> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
  >> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
  >> deployment. This also drove up costs.
  >>
  >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
  >> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
  >> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
  >> where