Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Late 1970s. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 1:34 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I don't know when or where that was, but I'm 100% sure that punch out/punch in thing would be illegal today in NY State. The DOL would argue that moving from one truck to another was part of your job and you'd need to be paid for that time. I'd also bet a donut that there's an OSHA rule about running on a loading dock. I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that there are other mitigating factors in play. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/30/2017 12:42:28 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Recumbent followed by elliptical followed by universal gym. Screw the treadmill. But I still jog around (and really when I say run, I really mean jog) from building to building or truck to house if I am trying to set an example for a new hire etc. When I was younger working at UPS, my supervisor would punch me out when done loading or unloading a truck, then I literally had to run across the hub to the next truck where they would punch you back in. Not only did you not get paid for that time period you got your ass chewed if you took too much time getting there. And if you ever told one of those guys to fuck off, you not only would you have been fired, you might have needed dental work too. From: Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Running is for children and thieves ;-) At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to go for a jog with them lol. Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the gym. -sean On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I fe
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I don't know when or where that was, but I'm 100% sure that punch out/punch in thing would be illegal today in NY State. The DOL would argue that moving from one truck to another was part of your job and you'd need to be paid for that time. I'd also bet a donut that there's an OSHA rule about running on a loading dock. I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that there are other mitigating factors in play. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/30/2017 12:42:28 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Recumbent followed by elliptical followed by universal gym. Screw the treadmill. But I still jog around (and really when I say run, I really mean jog) from building to building or truck to house if I am trying to set an example for a new hire etc. When I was younger working at UPS, my supervisor would punch me out when done loading or unloading a truck, then I literally had to run across the hub to the next truck where they would punch you back in. Not only did you not get paid for that time period you got your ass chewed if you took too much time getting there. And if you ever told one of those guys to fuck off, you not only would you have been fired, you might have needed dental work too. From:Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:05 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Running is for children and thieves ;-) At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to go for a jog with them lol. Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the gym. -sean On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From:Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back t
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Recumbent followed by elliptical followed by universal gym. Screw the treadmill. But I still jog around (and really when I say run, I really mean jog) from building to building or truck to house if I am trying to set an example for a new hire etc. When I was younger working at UPS, my supervisor would punch me out when done loading or unloading a truck, then I literally had to run across the hub to the next truck where they would punch you back in. Not only did you not get paid for that time period you got your ass chewed if you took too much time getting there. And if you ever told one of those guys to fuck off, you not only would you have been fired, you might have needed dental work too. From: Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Running is for children and thieves ;-) At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to go for a jog with them lol. Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the gym. -sean On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bough
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Running is for children and thieves ;-) At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to go for a jog with them lol. Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the gym. -sean On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: > You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide > that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. > > I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do > at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to > 4 or keep them on piece rate. > > Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? > Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of > drill sergeant treatment. > > I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in > simple and clear terms exactly what you want. > > > > *From:* Brandon Yuchasz > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway > sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to > teach / train a new installer to work faster? > > > > We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other > duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good > understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he > is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. > > > > I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where > the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of > time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install > here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You > could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a > breeze. > > > > I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered > a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not > counting drive time. > > > > I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers > permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a > single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer > with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 > hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. > > > > So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then > took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire > install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I > left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to > not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions > to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster > process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed > up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is > a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 > > > > I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on > installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out > three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when > I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove > a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done > at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was > just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the > driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was > going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was > going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly > asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish > reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a > between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. > > > > Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. > > > > I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot > 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never > seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the > house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. > And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the > back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the > doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help > with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I > walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing > down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the > w
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Hand is up!! On Apr 30, 2017 9:03 AM, "Jaime Solorza" wrote: > Well this old dude can usually out work and out last most younger > workers. Experience keeps you from simple mistakes that cause delays. For > example , getting in roof with no charge in drill battery, forgetting right > tools for job, climbing tower with not enough tools or mounting gear > accessoriesDiscpline keeps you on track, focus keeps you safe, and > skipping the bullshit chats allows you to get task completed in decent time > frame. The 6Ps is the key ...Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor > Performance... Enough already, heading to Good Luck Cafe for breakfast > > On Apr 24, 2017 9:52 AM, "Mathew Howard" wrote: > >> I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting >> time. There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can >> just so that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get >> some over time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the >> cable, or calling the office to find out if there are any service calls we >> need him to do while he's walking back to the truck. >> >> What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about >> what kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the >> easiest possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how >> long it takes. >> >> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson < >> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I >>> would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you to. You >>> can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take all day if you >>> need to but make him think through the install. >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>>> I never suggested not being safe. >>>> >>>> Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread: >>>> >>>> “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck >>>> heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss >>>> with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always >>>> run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly >>>> does not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “ >>>> >>>> So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% >>>> on the side of the employer here. >>>> Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck >>>> off. >>>> >>>> The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even >>>> running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone >>>> defend that? >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds >>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>>> >>>> Am soldier, no longer enlisted. >>>> >>>> No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder >>>> accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their >>>> head by trying to rush on the job site. >>>> >>>> Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit >>>> hole, it really puts things into perspective. >>>> >>>> Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's >>>> your call and you get to live with that for better or worse. >>>> >>>> - Josh >>>> >>>> On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to >>>>> hustle) in the following jobs? >>>>> Soldier >>>>> Life Guard >>>>> Fireman >>>>> EMT >>>>> Cop >>>>> Airline baggage loader, unloader >>>>> Airline fuel line operator >>>>> Personal Trainer >>>>> Flat Rate Roofer >>>>> Athlete >>>>> ER Nurse >>>>> Fast Food worker during lunch >>>>> Package sorter/truck loade
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
+1 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 11:03 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Well this old dude can usually out work and out last most younger workers. Experience keeps you from simple mistakes that cause delays. For example , getting in roof with no charge in drill battery, forgetting right tools for job, climbing tower with not enough tools or mounting gear accessoriesDiscpline keeps you on track, focus keeps you safe, and skipping the bullshit chats allows you to get task completed in decent time frame. The 6Ps is the key ...Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance... Enough already, heading to Good Luck Cafe for breakfast On Apr 24, 2017 9:52 AM, "Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote: I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting time. There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can just so that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get some over time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the cable, or calling the office to find out if there are any service calls we need him to do while he's walking back to the truck. What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about what kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the easiest possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how long it takes. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote: I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you to. You can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take all day if you need to but make him think through the install. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: I never suggested not being safe. Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread: “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “ So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% on the side of the employer here. Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck off. The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone defend that? From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Am soldier, no longer enlisted. No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their head by trying to rush on the job site. Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, it really puts things into perspective. Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your call and you get to live with that for better or worse. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in the following jobs? Soldier Life Guard Fireman EMT Cop Airline baggage loader, unloader Airline fuel line operator Personal Trainer Flat Rate Roofer Athlete ER Nurse Fast Food worker during lunch Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) Ranch hand staking hay. Subway sandwich maker during lunch. Meat cutter. I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some spring in their step. From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise. But if you were dragging your ass, leaving t
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Well this old dude can usually out work and out last most younger workers. Experience keeps you from simple mistakes that cause delays. For example , getting in roof with no charge in drill battery, forgetting right tools for job, climbing tower with not enough tools or mounting gear accessoriesDiscpline keeps you on track, focus keeps you safe, and skipping the bullshit chats allows you to get task completed in decent time frame. The 6Ps is the key ...Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance... Enough already, heading to Good Luck Cafe for breakfast On Apr 24, 2017 9:52 AM, "Mathew Howard" wrote: > I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting > time. There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can > just so that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get > some over time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the > cable, or calling the office to find out if there are any service calls we > need him to do while he's walking back to the truck. > > What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about > what kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the > easiest possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how > long it takes. > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson < > cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: > >> I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I >> would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you to. You >> can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take all day if you >> need to but make him think through the install. >> >> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >>> I never suggested not being safe. >>> >>> Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread: >>> >>> “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck >>> heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with >>> this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run >>> to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does >>> not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “ >>> >>> So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% >>> on the side of the employer here. >>> Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck >>> off. >>> >>> The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even >>> running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone >>> defend that? >>> >>> >>> *From:* Josh Reynolds >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> >>> Am soldier, no longer enlisted. >>> >>> No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder >>> accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their >>> head by trying to rush on the job site. >>> >>> Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit >>> hole, it really puts things into perspective. >>> >>> Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's >>> your call and you get to live with that for better or worse. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: >>> >>>> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to >>>> hustle) in the following jobs? >>>> Soldier >>>> Life Guard >>>> Fireman >>>> EMT >>>> Cop >>>> Airline baggage loader, unloader >>>> Airline fuel line operator >>>> Personal Trainer >>>> Flat Rate Roofer >>>> Athlete >>>> ER Nurse >>>> Fast Food worker during lunch >>>> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) >>>> Ranch hand staking hay. >>>> Subway sandwich maker during lunch. >>>> Meat cutter. >>>> >>>> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to >>>> jog/hustle/run. >>>> >>>> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to >>>> have some spring in their step. >>>> >>>&
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Like most things in life, there is a balance. The mindset of time as a widget that can’t be replaced and that it represents lost opportunity (vs. a direct “time is money correlation”), is hard for some people to fully appreciate and it feels like pressure to them. In reality, it’s the opposite. Efficiency is freeing as an end result, but it does take effort to discipline yourself and accept that as a life commitment. I find that teaching others from an intellectual standpoint, and having that just magically become a habit, is difficult. It is better “caught than taught” as a good habit. The challenge is not having enough leaders to be in the field for someone to catch the habit from. Paul From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:42 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I am 40, own my company, and I still run. Also, Mel Payne, my old boss, used to yell at me to run or hurry. It bugged me, but it only worked out bad once. I was aligning a 4' dish on Mt. Pisgah in Mantua, and the wind was blowing hard. I was loosening the adjustment bolts and trying to get it to turn a bit to the right. I was hooked up and had to repel down to this specific antenna. He was screaming at me to hurry up, as weather was getting worse. He said "just push it as hard as you can!!" So I swung back on the rope and kicked it. It didn't move, but my leg broke. I don't rush my guys. On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Jay Weekley mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote: Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the field AND runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand. Jerry Head wrote: Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already. On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in the following jobs? Soldier Life Guard Fireman EMT Cop Airline baggage loader, unloader Airline fuel line operator Personal Trainer Flat Rate Roofer Athlete ER Nurse Fast Food worker during lunch Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) Ranch hand staking hay. Subway sandwich maker during lunch. Meat cutter. I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some spring in their step. *From:* Chuck McCown *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM *To:* af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise. But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... *From:* Josh Reynolds *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM *To:* af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. *From:* Timothy Steele *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM *To:* af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
No offense taken.
And I doubt I have ever told an employee to run.
But I have told them to show some hustle when dragging their butt, and that is
never wrong for an employer to say.
But I would fire anyone that told me to fuck off.
By saying that they are saying “please fire me”.
Employers that do not say things that are needed end up with a bunch of
employees not giving a full day’s effort for a full day’s pay.
From: Timothy Steele
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 7:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I've had a few of the jobs listed yes we had to hustle but even when I was in
fast food I never had a boss disrespectful enough to have the nerve and say
don't walk run is all I'm saying respect go's both ways with employees and
employer you treat them like crap they treat you like crap that was the only
point I was trying to make go ahead and take offense to that if you want but
truth is truth I'm just the only 1 willing to say it because I don't need this
list anyway it's just fun watching you all go crazy
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 11:06 PM Jerry Head wrote:
Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.
On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in
the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have
some spring in their step.
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things
perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would
you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to
sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements.
That includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you
get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you,
probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of
working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to
forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to
end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get
paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often
has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab
or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them
like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they
need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone
to take their time.
From: Timothy Steele
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start
looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to
run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to
do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to
4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking fro
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Oh, to be 40 again.
Jeremy wrote:
I am 40, own my company, and I still run. Also, Mel Payne, my old
boss, used to yell at me to run or hurry. It bugged me, but it only
worked out bad once. I was aligning a 4' dish on Mt. Pisgah in
Mantua, and the wind was blowing hard. I was loosening the adjustment
bolts and trying to get it to turn a bit to the right. I was hooked
up and had to repel down to this specific antenna. He was screaming
at me to hurry up, as weather was getting worse. He said "just push
it as hard as you can!!" So I swung back on the rope and kicked it.
It didn't move, but my leg broke. I don't rush my guys.
On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Jay Weekley
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in
the field AND runs all the time when they are on the job site
raise their hand.
Jerry Head wrote:
Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.
On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when
asked to hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an
installer to have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go
fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time
possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to
slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house?
There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back
and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just
jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That
includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you
do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag
your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late,
BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one
time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons.
Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and
tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the
install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they
get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work
that looks bad and often has problems you will have to
roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance
with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or
FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing
than treating
them like an adult. You own their work output when
they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle.
I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there
going t
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
hand is up
-Original Message-
From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 8:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the
field AND runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand.
Jerry Head wrote:
Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.
On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle)
in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have
some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things
perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why
would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house?
There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not
saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of
movements. That includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If
you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can
you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead
of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads
to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause
you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as
they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks
bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to
start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house
and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what
you want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason
until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them
real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them
they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once
they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from
truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal
jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to
tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
*From:* Brandon Yuchasz
*Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I
did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how
you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to
work faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer
with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties
and has a good understanding of networking, computers and
even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and
the primary job he was hire
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I am 40, own my company, and I still run. Also, Mel Payne, my old boss, used to yell at me to run or hurry. It bugged me, but it only worked out bad once. I was aligning a 4' dish on Mt. Pisgah in Mantua, and the wind was blowing hard. I was loosening the adjustment bolts and trying to get it to turn a bit to the right. I was hooked up and had to repel down to this specific antenna. He was screaming at me to hurry up, as weather was getting worse. He said "just push it as hard as you can!!" So I swung back on the rope and kicked it. It didn't move, but my leg broke. I don't rush my guys. On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Jay Weekley wrote: > Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the field > AND runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand. > > Jerry Head wrote: > >> Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already. >> >> >> On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >>> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) >>> in the following jobs? >>> Soldier >>> Life Guard >>> Fireman >>> EMT >>> Cop >>> Airline baggage loader, unloader >>> Airline fuel line operator >>> Personal Trainer >>> Flat Rate Roofer >>> Athlete >>> ER Nurse >>> Fast Food worker during lunch >>> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) >>> Ranch hand staking hay. >>> Subway sandwich maker during lunch. >>> Meat cutter. >>> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. >>> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have >>> some spring in their step. >>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do >>> things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. >>> Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the >>> house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and >>> forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. >>> Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. >>> At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If >>> you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, >>> probably give you a raise. >>> But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead >>> of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... >>> *From:* Josh Reynolds >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. >>> Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads >>> to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause >>> you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as >>> they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks >>> bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. >>> Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted >>> efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. >>> "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." >>> In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. >>> >>> - Josh >>> On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: >>> >>> Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or >>> Les Schwab or Tunex or .. >>> Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating >>> them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on >>> the clock and they need to work efficiently. >>> It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay >>> anyone to take their time. >>> *From:* Timothy Steele >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> >>> If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to >>> start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house >>> and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what >>> you want then go for it
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the
field AND runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand.
Jerry Head wrote:
Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.
On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to
hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to
have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do
things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means
hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the
truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not
jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just
jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and
supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.
If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not
can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing
instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing
leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay
with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV
subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's
absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will
have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to
start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house
and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what
you want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason
until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them
real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them
they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once
they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from
truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal
jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to
tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
*From:* Brandon Yuchasz
*Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I
did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how
you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to
work faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer
with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties
and has a good understanding of networking, computers and
even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and
the primary job he was hired to do.
I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to
figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took
him on site surv
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I've had a few of the jobs listed yes we had to hustle but even when I was in fast food I never had a boss disrespectful enough to have the nerve and say don't walk run is all I'm saying respect go's both ways with employees and employer you treat them like crap they treat you like crap that was the only point I was trying to make go ahead and take offense to that if you want but truth is truth I'm just the only 1 willing to say it because I don't need this list anyway it's just fun watching you all go crazy On Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 11:06 PM Jerry Head wrote: > Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already. > > > > On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) > in the following jobs? > Soldier > Life Guard > Fireman > EMT > Cop > Airline baggage loader, unloader > Airline fuel line operator > Personal Trainer > Flat Rate Roofer > Athlete > ER Nurse > Fast Food worker during lunch > Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) > Ranch hand staking hay. > Subway sandwich maker during lunch. > Meat cutter. > > I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. > > I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have > some spring in their step. > > > *From:* Chuck McCown > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things > perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why > would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? > There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not > saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of > movements. That includes tool and supply organization. > > At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If > you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, > probably give you a raise. > > But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of > working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... > > > *From:* Josh Reynolds > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. > > Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads > to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause > you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as > they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks > bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. > > Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted > efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. > > "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." > > In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. > > - Josh > > On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: > > Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab > or Tunex or .. > > Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them > like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and > they need to work efficiently. > > It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone > to take their time. > > > *From:* Timothy Steele > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start > looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me > to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: > > You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide >> that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. >> >> I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to >> do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it >> to 4 or keep them on piece rate. >> >> Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to >> house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a >> bit of drill sergeant treatment. >> >> I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in >> simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.
On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to
hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to
have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do
things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means
hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck
and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging
back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show
some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply
organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.
If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not
can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing
instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing
leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay
with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV
subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's
absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will
have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les
Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to
start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house
and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you
want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until
they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real
hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them
they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once
they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from
truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal
jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell
them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
*From:* Brandon Yuchasz
*Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I
did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you
guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work
faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with
other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and
has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF.
The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the
primary job he was hired to do.
I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to
figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took
him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the
entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down
here, across here in through wall here a
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Pinkerton, that’s right. I use a local company called Pilkington. Got confused. I find it interesting that Carnegie’s story somewhat parallels Bill Gates 100 years later. Disruptive technology, moves to deploy nationwide, going public etc. Huge game changer for business in industry by both guys. From: Cameron Crum Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 3:51 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Actually it wasn't Carnegie, it was his right hand man Henry Frick who was a ruthless SOB. Carnegie was largely hands off at the time and Frick was really running the show, although Carnegie did know what was happening. Frick made the decision to bring in the Pinkerton's to break the strike and it went poorly with deaths on both sides. While the incident did cause a rift between Carnegie and Frick, I think is was the Johnstown Flood that Carnegie felt most guilty about even though it wasn't his direct action that caused it, and I think a lot of the blame was due to decisions made by Frick. I know this mostly because one of my best friends is married to Frick's great granddaughter. Interesting family history. On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:04 PM, wrote: One could argue that a management shooting employees that wanted to organize or strike has resulted in our current internet... This is the logic: Andrew Carnegie hired Pilkington guards to control or suppress a labor uprising. Can't remember if it was a strike or organizing activities. One of the Pilkington guys shot and killed one of Carnegies employees. He was wracked with guilt for the rest of his life and attempted to atone for the act by building many free libraries across the nation. those libraries undoubtedly were critical in the launching of careers of many in science and industry. Probably some NASA guys in there. So, shoot an employee and get men on the moon, which led to the internet. Simple. -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:50 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It goes both ways and always will..But rarely have union employees had crews shoot management.. Back in the 1910-1920 era, that was _not_ true the other way around...Now there were cases of unions shooting their OWN people to get non-unionized groups to unionize... On 04/28/2017 09:13 AM, Larry Smith wrote: When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they turned into the "club" to beat management and companies into doing their will they became despickable (IMO).
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Actually it wasn't Carnegie, it was his right hand man Henry Frick who was a ruthless SOB. Carnegie was largely hands off at the time and Frick was really running the show, although Carnegie did know what was happening. Frick made the decision to bring in the Pinkerton's to break the strike and it went poorly with deaths on both sides. While the incident did cause a rift between Carnegie and Frick, I think is was the Johnstown Flood that Carnegie felt most guilty about even though it wasn't his direct action that caused it, and I think a lot of the blame was due to decisions made by Frick. I know this mostly because one of my best friends is married to Frick's great granddaughter. Interesting family history. On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:04 PM, wrote: > One could argue that a management shooting employees that wanted to > organize or strike has resulted in our current internet... > This is the logic: > > Andrew Carnegie hired Pilkington guards to control or suppress a labor > uprising. Can't remember if it was a strike or organizing activities. One > of the Pilkington guys shot and killed one of Carnegies employees. > > He was wracked with guilt for the rest of his life and attempted to atone > for the act by building many free libraries across the nation. those > libraries undoubtedly were critical in the launching of careers of many in > science and industry. Probably some NASA guys in there. > > So, shoot an employee and get men on the moon, which led to the internet. > > Simple. > > -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:50 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It goes both > ways and always will..But rarely have union employees had crews > shoot management.. Back in the 1910-1920 era, that was _not_ true the > other way around...Now there were cases of unions shooting their OWN > people to get non-unionized groups to unionize... > > On 04/28/2017 09:13 AM, Larry Smith wrote: > >> When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and >> garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they >> turned into the "club" to beat management and companies >> into doing their will they became despickable (IMO). >> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
That's very true.. The shooting incidents I was thinking about was the west coast longshoreman's strike that resulted in wholesale slaughter of union workers... On 04/28/2017 10:04 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: One could argue that a management shooting employees that wanted to organize or strike has resulted in our current internet... This is the logic: Andrew Carnegie hired Pilkington guards to control or suppress a labor uprising. Can't remember if it was a strike or organizing activities. One of the Pilkington guys shot and killed one of Carnegies employees. He was wracked with guilt for the rest of his life and attempted to atone for the act by building many free libraries across the nation. those libraries undoubtedly were critical in the launching of careers of many in science and industry. Probably some NASA guys in there. So, shoot an employee and get men on the moon, which led to the internet. Simple. -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:50 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It goes both ways and always will..But rarely have union employees had crews shoot management.. Back in the 1910-1920 era, that was _not_ true the other way around...Now there were cases of unions shooting their OWN people to get non-unionized groups to unionize... On 04/28/2017 09:13 AM, Larry Smith wrote: When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they turned into the "club" to beat management and companies into doing their will they became despickable (IMO).
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
That was a good one, I bought the book too. -Original Message- From: Dan Petermann Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:09 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. That reminds me of the old TV show, Connections. I loved that show and it ended way too soon. I wonder it its kicking around on the net somewhere���. On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:04 AM, wrote: One could argue that a management shooting employees that wanted to organize or strike has resulted in our current internet... This is the logic: Andrew Carnegie hired Pilkington guards to control or suppress a labor uprising. Can't remember if it was a strike or organizing activities. One of the Pilkington guys shot and killed one of Carnegies employees. He was wracked with guilt for the rest of his life and attempted to atone for the act by building many free libraries across the nation. those libraries undoubtedly were critical in the launching of careers of many in science and industry. Probably some NASA guys in there. So, shoot an employee and get men on the moon, which led to the internet. Simple. -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:50 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It goes both ways and always will..But rarely have union employees had crews shoot management.. Back in the 1910-1920 era, that was _not_ true the other way around...Now there were cases of unions shooting their OWN people to get non-unionized groups to unionize... On 04/28/2017 09:13 AM, Larry Smith wrote: When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they turned into the "club" to beat management and companies into doing their will they became despickable (IMO).
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Har Har Har... Happy Friday guys, Jim Bouse Owner Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi 979-985-5912 j...@brazoswifi.com -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Yeah, that guy is looking for a job in central TX -Original Message- From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Well, the guy that I mentioned earlier is no longer an issue. He decided, on his own, to climb a customer tower without training, proper equipment, or instruction yesterday. Had to let him go. Apparently, the instructions of: "Nobody climbs towers except me and Chris" was unclear. So Anyone looking for a job in central TX? Jim Bouse Owner Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi 979-985-5912 j...@brazoswifi.com
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Yeah, that guy is looking for a job in central TX -Original Message- From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Well, the guy that I mentioned earlier is no longer an issue. He decided, on his own, to climb a customer tower without training, proper equipment, or instruction yesterday. Had to let him go. Apparently, the instructions of: "Nobody climbs towers except me and Chris" was unclear. So Anyone looking for a job in central TX? Jim Bouse Owner Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi 979-985-5912 j...@brazoswifi.com
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
That reminds me of the old TV show, Connections. I loved that show and it ended way too soon. I wonder it its kicking around on the net somewhere………. On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:04 AM, wrote: > One could argue that a management shooting employees that wanted to organize > or strike has resulted in our current internet... > This is the logic: > > Andrew Carnegie hired Pilkington guards to control or suppress a labor > uprising. Can't remember if it was a strike or organizing activities. One > of the Pilkington guys shot and killed one of Carnegies employees. > > He was wracked with guilt for the rest of his life and attempted to atone for > the act by building many free libraries across the nation. those libraries > undoubtedly were critical in the launching of careers of many in science and > industry. Probably some NASA guys in there. > > So, shoot an employee and get men on the moon, which led to the internet. > > Simple. > > -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:50 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It goes both > ways and always will..But rarely have union employees had crews > shoot management.. Back in the 1910-1920 era, that was _not_ true the > other way around...Now there were cases of unions shooting their OWN > people to get non-unionized groups to unionize... > > On 04/28/2017 09:13 AM, Larry Smith wrote: >> When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and >> garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they >> turned into the "club" to beat management and companies >> into doing their will they became despickable (IMO). >
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Well, the guy that I mentioned earlier is no longer an issue. He decided, on his own, to climb a customer tower without training, proper equipment, or instruction yesterday. Had to let him go. Apparently, the instructions of: "Nobody climbs towers except me and Chris" was unclear. So Anyone looking for a job in central TX? Jim Bouse Owner Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi 979-985-5912 j...@brazoswifi.com
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
One could argue that a management shooting employees that wanted to organize or strike has resulted in our current internet... This is the logic: Andrew Carnegie hired Pilkington guards to control or suppress a labor uprising. Can't remember if it was a strike or organizing activities. One of the Pilkington guys shot and killed one of Carnegies employees. He was wracked with guilt for the rest of his life and attempted to atone for the act by building many free libraries across the nation. those libraries undoubtedly were critical in the launching of careers of many in science and industry. Probably some NASA guys in there. So, shoot an employee and get men on the moon, which led to the internet. Simple. -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:50 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It goes both ways and always will..But rarely have union employees had crews shoot management.. Back in the 1910-1920 era, that was _not_ true the other way around...Now there were cases of unions shooting their OWN people to get non-unionized groups to unionize... On 04/28/2017 09:13 AM, Larry Smith wrote: When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they turned into the "club" to beat management and companies into doing their will they became despickable (IMO).
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely... It goes both ways and always will..But rarely have union employees had crews shoot management.. Back in the 1910-1920 era, that was _not_ true the other way around...Now there were cases of unions shooting their OWN people to get non-unionized groups to unionize... On 04/28/2017 09:13 AM, Larry Smith wrote: When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they turned into the "club" to beat management and companies into doing their will they became despickable (IMO).
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they turned into the "club" to beat management and companies into doing their will they became despickable (IMO). -- Larry Smith lesm...@ecsis.net On Fri April 28 2017 10:59, Adam Moffett wrote: > That's scandalous. I have never experienced anything like that. > > I wasn't against unions until I was a young adultand in principle > I'm still not "against unions", I'm against how far they seem to be > reaching. > > In 1999 I was doing tech support for $8.50/hour. I think I had 50% > medical coverage. I think in 2001 or 2002 Verizon's linemen went on > strike. The big deal was that they currently had 100% of their health > insurance paid for by the company, and management wanted to make it 80%. > Any line work during the strike was done by managers or contractors. > > I had difficulty sympathizing with people who already had it way better > than normal and it wasn't enough. I heard things later that made me > straight up angry: Some of the linesmen on strike (allegedly) committed > acts of sabotage just to create problems that there wasn't enough labor > to solve. I heard from a local field tech that she was told by the > union to only complete x number of work orders per day (I think it was > 2), and to deliberately waste time if they were in danger of > accomplishing too much. > > meanwhile I'm busting my ass for 1/3 of the money and half the > bennies they get. It's really colored my opinion. To me union == lazy > crybabies. I understand that unions were largely responsible for > raising the standard of living in the USA, but I feel like now they've > got it made and it's still not enough for them. > > > > > -- Original Message -- > From: ch...@wbmfg.com > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 4/28/2017 11:30:19 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > >I was kinda almost union once. Worked for UPS as a seasonal sorter > >truck loader in their PDX hub. Couple of teamsters came in the truck I > >was loading. Threatened me that if I did not join the union I would > >find working there difficult, extracted some cash from me to fund the > >united way and then left. That was my last day last shift. And I have > >NEVER given to united way since. > > > >From:Jerry Head > >Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:27 AM > >To:af@afmug.com > >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > > >You clearly are non-union. > > > >On 4/24/2017 8:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >>Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les > >>Schwab or Tunex or .. > >> > >>Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them > >>like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock > >>and they need to work efficiently. > >> > >>It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay > >>anyone to take their time. > >> > >>From:Timothy Steele > >>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM > >>To:af@afmug.com > >>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > >> > >>If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start > >>looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you > >>told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then > >>go for it > >> > >>On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: > >>>You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they > >>>decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be > >>>rare. > >>> > >>>I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have > >>>to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, > >>>then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. > >>> > >>>Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to > >>>house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give > >>>them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. > >>> > >>>I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, > >>>in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>From:Brandon Yuchasz > >>>Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM > >>>To:af@afmug.com > >>>Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > &
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Technicians at Pacific Northwest Bell used to save the bad FETRONS (solid state replacements for vacuum tubes used on long distance carrier lines). When they went on strike they would randomly put bad FETRONS throughout the analog carrier channel cards. I was told this personally by my counterpart that worked in The Dalles, Oregon central office. I heard the same from a Western Union technician. Fun days for the managers that had to perform the work during the strike. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 9:59 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. That's scandalous. I have never experienced anything like that. I wasn't against unions until I was a young adultand in principle I'm still not "against unions", I'm against how far they seem to be reaching. In 1999 I was doing tech support for $8.50/hour. I think I had 50% medical coverage. I think in 2001 or 2002 Verizon's linemen went on strike. The big deal was that they currently had 100% of their health insurance paid for by the company, and management wanted to make it 80%. Any line work during the strike was done by managers or contractors. I had difficulty sympathizing with people who already had it way better than normal and it wasn't enough. I heard things later that made me straight up angry: Some of the linesmen on strike (allegedly) committed acts of sabotage just to create problems that there wasn't enough labor to solve. I heard from a local field tech that she was told by the union to only complete x number of work orders per day (I think it was 2), and to deliberately waste time if they were in danger of accomplishing too much. meanwhile I'm busting my ass for 1/3 of the money and half the bennies they get. It's really colored my opinion. To me union == lazy crybabies. I understand that unions were largely responsible for raising the standard of living in the USA, but I feel like now they've got it made and it's still not enough for them. -- Original Message -- From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/28/2017 11:30:19 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was kinda almost union once. Worked for UPS as a seasonal sorter truck loader in their PDX hub. Couple of teamsters came in the truck I was loading. Threatened me that if I did not join the union I would find working there difficult, extracted some cash from me to fund the united way and then left. That was my last day last shift. And I have NEVER given to united way since. From: Jerry Head Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. You clearly are non-union. On 4/24/2017 8:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From: Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do.
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
That's scandalous. I have never experienced anything like that. I wasn't against unions until I was a young adultand in principle I'm still not "against unions", I'm against how far they seem to be reaching. In 1999 I was doing tech support for $8.50/hour. I think I had 50% medical coverage. I think in 2001 or 2002 Verizon's linemen went on strike. The big deal was that they currently had 100% of their health insurance paid for by the company, and management wanted to make it 80%. Any line work during the strike was done by managers or contractors. I had difficulty sympathizing with people who already had it way better than normal and it wasn't enough. I heard things later that made me straight up angry: Some of the linesmen on strike (allegedly) committed acts of sabotage just to create problems that there wasn't enough labor to solve. I heard from a local field tech that she was told by the union to only complete x number of work orders per day (I think it was 2), and to deliberately waste time if they were in danger of accomplishing too much. meanwhile I'm busting my ass for 1/3 of the money and half the bennies they get. It's really colored my opinion. To me union == lazy crybabies. I understand that unions were largely responsible for raising the standard of living in the USA, but I feel like now they've got it made and it's still not enough for them. -- Original Message -- From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/28/2017 11:30:19 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was kinda almost union once. Worked for UPS as a seasonal sorter truck loader in their PDX hub. Couple of teamsters came in the truck I was loading. Threatened me that if I did not join the union I would find working there difficult, extracted some cash from me to fund the united way and then left. That was my last day last shift. And I have NEVER given to united way since. From:Jerry Head Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:27 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. You clearly are non-union. On 4/24/2017 8:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From:Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From:Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was d
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was kinda almost union once. Worked for UPS as a seasonal sorter truck loader in their PDX hub. Couple of teamsters came in the truck I was loading. Threatened me that if I did not join the union I would find working there difficult, extracted some cash from me to fund the united way and then left. That was my last day last shift. And I have NEVER given to united way since. From: Jerry Head Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. You clearly are non-union. On 4/24/2017 8:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From: Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepp
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
You clearly are non-union. On 4/24/2017 8:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. *From:* Timothy Steele *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. *From:* Brandon Yuchasz *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Yeah,
Got that T-shirt for sure. A few times. With Retired written somewhere
at the bottom.
A soldier can still be efficient and fast in the same statement.
Efficient dosent mean cut corners to cut safety.
I have 3 guys and 2 are very top notch and efficient. The other is a
recently ETS E4 soldier. Very young and only had 4 yrs
under his belt with no mission time at all.
I had to use a different approach with this man because he also has 4
kids and young wife and 2 kids not his. He always has
alot on his mind.
He did a job I had for a few years while serving.
So, long story short I explained exactly what we expect and the
importance of time
management in order not to cause his fellow workers to pick up his slack
or the action of such continued violation to such a problem will
land him at home explaining to his wife why he isnt working that day :)
It seems to have help bunches because he is turning out at least 2 a
day with a service call or 2 in between.
Occasionally I do get a little Drill sergeant attitude with my guys when
something isnt done right or falls through the cracks.
Since Day one I have always tried to set standards in all we do which
makes life so much smoother when getting quality and quantity done once.
On 4/24/2017 10:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
Am soldier, no longer enlisted.
No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder
accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing
their head by trying to rush on the job site.
Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit
hole, it really puts things into perspective.
Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's
your call and you get to live with that for better or worse.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to
hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer
to have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do
things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means
hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the
truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not
jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run.
Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes
tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a
day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I
would not can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing
instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing
leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to
pay with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV
subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's
absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you
will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no
wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than
treating them like an adult. You own their work output when
they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t
pay anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
+1.. Bullets dont wait for slow mo. Sometimes a little fire under the rump helps also. On 4/24/2017 8:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. *From:* Timothy Steele *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. *From:* Brandon Yuchasz *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I ha
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Ouch … 6 people for an interview …. that would be tough! :) At most, we have 3 people when hiring …. fast paced, keep it informal to increase comfort zone with the person being interviewed as you would be amazed what some of them say out loud when it’s “just the boys sitting around talking” kind of thing … Had one about a month ago that the first question was “what does this job pay?” which is a major red flag for me …. needless to say the conversation ended shortly and cut that person loose as that was their only priority … > On Apr 25, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > I once had two job candidates interview before a panel of about 6 of us for > the same job at the same time. That was FUN! > > Talk about competition! > > Then we hired both of them. Had already decided to hire both of them before > the meeting, but was feeling a bit sporting that day. > > From: CBB - Jay Fuller <> > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:22 AM > To: <>af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > > > I've always enjoyed hearing about the competition type programs at WISPA > shows. Layne Sisk has one at Serverplus and some of the larger WISPS have > them. I wish we had enough employees to do something like that. We have 3 > or 4 installers now but they work as teams (or alone), so it isn't really > fair to "judge them against one another..." > > >> And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not >> looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern >> generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are >> challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes >> as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way >> they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even >> more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every >> generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful >> generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a >> trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer >> have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of >> folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make >> $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share >> the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has also >> been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I work >> right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has >> guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at >> least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the >> youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in our >> area. >> >>
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I once had two job candidates interview before a panel of about 6 of us for the same job at the same time. That was FUN! Talk about competition! Then we hired both of them. Had already decided to hire both of them before the meeting, but was feeling a bit sporting that day. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:22 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I've always enjoyed hearing about the competition type programs at WISPA shows. Layne Sisk has one at Serverplus and some of the larger WISPS have them. I wish we had enough employees to do something like that. We have 3 or 4 installers now but they work as teams (or alone), so it isn't really fair to "judge them against one another..." And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has also been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in our area.
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I had one of those once. He said he was not going to train someone just to see them quit and get a better job than him. We just ignored him and told him to train people. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:18 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. We have a guy who refuses to train new people. I'm not sure we know how to deal with that because, for the most part, we really really like him. - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned veterans for two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they got a truck and were turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down, we gave them two more weeks and then they were let go if they did not turn it around. You cannot let it drag on. Cut them lose and move on. I never had regrets after firing anyone other than “should have done that about 3 years ago”. From: Ben Royer Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if the
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I will raise you...and call youon your debate
1) I don't want to fire my guy, he is well trained, has been doing it about 5
years and yes, from time to time we have issues but for the most part he does
his job well. Some of his time is not accounted for, that is a problem.
2) Lets say I did fire him. How much downtime is required to find someone new
to replace him? Ewww.
We really do need to find another tech to work the area (and we have tried), it
is not easy.
- Original Message -
From: Lewis Bergman
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
OK. First I have to admit I did not read the enormous number of posts the
original email elicited. Having said that and at the risk of saying exactly
what someone else has already illustrated, I will boil it down to options and
reasons.
1. Fire him. After two months he probably isn't going to get a whole lot
faster. First, nobody is going to be as fast as you. Maybe a 2/3 as fast if you
are lucky. Of course you have to try and find someone better. But, if you think
you can do better... A good friend once told me nobody ever fired somebody and
said "Man...I wish I would have done that six months later" It is always, "I
should have fired that guy a year ago". Not sure this situation fits that but
think about a year from now and things are exactly as they are now. What do you
do?
2. Keep him. Understand he is slow that drives me and you crazy but customers
like him and from what you said he does a good job. Those two things are not
easy to find. Maybe find a pay scheme that can work that to encourage a faster
performance or at least not cost you as much if he is slow. Pay him piece meal
work for every install completed. That way if he only does one a day it still
costs you what you think an install is worth. There is a decent value in an
installer you don't have to follow around all the time.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:35 PM Steve Jones wrote:
I dont think is lazier by default, just coddled. Nobody is allowed to hold
them accountable for anything so they never learn. Theyre taught that their
feelings matter, when they actually dont, not to the degree theyre led to
believe at least. Those with good work ethics have brought our capabilities up
so high that these who would normally have been culled by mother nature
naturally are allowed to survive and ultimately taint the gene pool.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I am a Boomer. When I was young, the lazy kids were called hippies or
beatniks or potheads.
I was a farm kid and my dad hired hippies that were Vietnam vets.
Learned a bunch from them.
They were hard workers.
Not sure when Gen X started. But we had the “me” generation that was all
about me and not you.
Punk rockers were something I seem to recall with seemingly odd hair and
clothes.
Later (I think or perhaps before) we had preppies that could not be
counted on to get their hands dirty.
At some point we had Millennials.
And now we have Millennial snowflakes that melt at harsh words or unkind
thoughts or ideas they don’t like.
Is it just different names or are the actually youth getting physically
lazier?
From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I'm 37. So I'm a grumpy old man only in spirit.
In a younger group of employees, we can identify some who are going to be
successful, and we can see some who are going to end up living with Mom. We'll
be mistaken about some of them in each category, but by and large I think
you'll know what I mean.
In the older group of employees, the ones who couldn't hack it have
already moved back in with Mom. Or they've gone to jail or they found a way to
collect a check. In which case the state is "Mom"; same thing only different.
The 30+ year old employees will look better as a group because fewer
non-hackers are standing next to them.
People have been complaining about the next generation for so long that
by now we should have descended into a Mad Max movie. Instead we keep
progressing. There could *also* be a cultural shift towards lazinessor a
cultural shift towards productivity. It can't be measured just by looking at
the group of twenty somethings in front of you.
-- Original Message --
From: "Ben Royer"
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/24/2017 11:54:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even
at 33, so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young kids,
aged 18 to up
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I've always enjoyed hearing about the competition type programs at WISPA shows. Layne Sisk has one at Serverplus and some of the larger WISPS have them. I wish we had enough employees to do something like that. We have 3 or 4 installers now but they work as teams (or alone), so it isn't really fair to "judge them against one another..." And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has also been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in our area.
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
We have a guy who refuses to train new people. I'm not sure we know how to deal with that because, for the most part, we really really like him. - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned veterans for two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they got a truck and were turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down, we gave them two more weeks and then they were let go if they did not turn it around. You cannot let it drag on. Cut them lose and move on. I never had regrets after firing anyone other than “should have done that about 3 years ago”. From: Ben Royer Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
This isn't about installing, but I am a very time-detailed oriented person. I pretty much do not take customer calls because of this. I tend to leave my plate about 300% full and rush through as many things I can - while completing each task sufficiently. I have had times where I've wound up on the phone far too long and only completed 3 of my 7 tasks for the day. That was a bad day. BTW - repaired a tower at 2 am this morning, wanted to read through this thread i found on my phone - Original Message - From: Ben Royer To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Millennials = generation derp. Oh wait, I'm 32. Don't care, I'm not a gotdamn millennial. On 4/24/2017 1:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: I am a Boomer. When I was young, the lazy kids were called hippies or beatniks or potheads. I was a farm kid and my dad hired hippies that were Vietnam vets. Learned a bunch from them. They were hard workers. Not sure when Gen X started. But we had the “me” generation that was all about me and not you. Punk rockers were something I seem to recall with seemingly odd hair and clothes. Later (I think or perhaps before) we had preppies that could not be counted on to get their hands dirty. At some point we had Millennials. And now we have Millennial snowflakes that melt at harsh words or unkind thoughts or ideas they don’t like. Is it just different names or are the actually youth getting physically lazier? *From:* Adam Moffett *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 10:44 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I'm 37. So I'm a grumpy old man only in spirit. In a younger group of employees, we can identify some who are going to be successful, and we can see some who are going to end up living with Mom. We'll be mistaken about some of them in each category, but by and large I think you'll know what I mean. In the older group of employees, the ones who couldn't hack it have /already /moved back in with Mom. Or they've gone to jail or they found a way to collect a check. In which case the state is "Mom"; same thing only different. The 30+ year old employees will look better as a group because fewer non-hackers are standing next to them. People have been complaining about the next generation for so long that by now we should have descended into a Mad Max movie. Instead we keep progressing. There could *also* be a cultural shift towards lazinessor a cultural shift towards productivity. It can't be measured just by looking at the group of twenty somethings in front of you. -- Original Message -- From: "Ben Royer" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 11:54:50 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even at 33, so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young kids, aged 18 to upper 20’s, don’t want to do anything, and want more money for less work, if they could get paid to sit at home, they would. Sure, one could make the argument the older generation has that group also, I can attest to that, as I have a few of those employees also. But I was simply speaking from a majority of what the employment pool has today. I can assure you, at least in Central Illinois, there are more people that don’t want to work in the ‘youth’ demographic, than people that want to earn their pay. And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has also been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in our area. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net *From:* Adam Moffett *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 10:36 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I'm gonna drift a bit now: I take issue with the ageism. There's a tendency to look down on the next generation and say they're all lazy bums. You can find columns from the 40's describing the young people as lazy and immoral. I know I've seen one from the 1890's decrying the horrible tendencies of "today's" youth drinking, getting pregnant, and having no desire to work
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
OK. First I have to admit I did not read the enormous number of posts the original email elicited. Having said that and at the risk of saying exactly what someone else has already illustrated, I will boil it down to options and reasons. 1. Fire him. After two months he probably isn't going to get a whole lot faster. First, nobody is going to be as fast as you. Maybe a 2/3 as fast if you are lucky. Of course you have to try and find someone better. But, if you think you can do better... A good friend once told me nobody ever fired somebody and said "Man...I wish I would have done that six months later" It is always, "I should have fired that guy a year ago". Not sure this situation fits that but think about a year from now and things are exactly as they are now. What do you do? 2. Keep him. Understand he is slow that drives me and you crazy but customers like him and from what you said he does a good job. Those two things are not easy to find. Maybe find a pay scheme that can work that to encourage a faster performance or at least not cost you as much if he is slow. Pay him piece meal work for every install completed. That way if he only does one a day it still costs you what you think an install is worth. There is a decent value in an installer you don't have to follow around all the time. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:35 PM Steve Jones wrote: > I dont think is lazier by default, just coddled. Nobody is allowed to hold > them accountable for anything so they never learn. Theyre taught that their > feelings matter, when they actually dont, not to the degree theyre led to > believe at least. Those with good work ethics have brought our capabilities > up so high that these who would normally have been culled by mother nature > naturally are allowed to survive and ultimately taint the gene pool. > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> I am a Boomer. When I was young, the lazy kids were called hippies or >> beatniks or potheads. >> I was a farm kid and my dad hired hippies that were Vietnam vets. >> Learned a bunch from them. >> They were hard workers. >> >> Not sure when Gen X started. But we had the “me” generation that was all >> about me and not you. >> Punk rockers were something I seem to recall with seemingly odd hair and >> clothes. >> >> Later (I think or perhaps before) we had preppies that could not be >> counted on to get their hands dirty. >> At some point we had Millennials. >> And now we have Millennial snowflakes that melt at harsh words or unkind >> thoughts or ideas they don’t like. >> >> Is it just different names or are the actually youth getting physically >> lazier? >> >> *From:* Adam Moffett >> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 10:44 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> I'm 37. So I'm a grumpy old man only in spirit. >> >> In a younger group of employees, we can identify some who are going to be >> successful, and we can see some who are going to end up living with Mom. >> We'll be mistaken about some of them in each category, but by and large I >> think you'll know what I mean. >> >> In the older group of employees, the ones who couldn't hack it have *already >> *moved back in with Mom. Or they've gone to jail or they found a way to >> collect a check. In which case the state is "Mom"; same thing only >> different. The 30+ year old employees will look better as a group because >> fewer non-hackers are standing next to them. >> >> People have been complaining about the next generation for so long that >> by now we should have descended into a Mad Max movie. Instead we keep >> progressing. There could *also* be a cultural shift towards lazinessor >> a cultural shift towards productivity. It can't be measured just by >> looking at the group of twenty somethings in front of you. >> >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Ben Royer" >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: 4/24/2017 11:54:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> >> Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even >> at 33, so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young >> kids, aged 18 to upper 20’s, don’t want to do anything, and want more money >> for less work, if they could get paid to sit at home, they would. Sure, >> one could make the argument the older generation has that group also, I can >> attest to that, as I have a few of those employees also. But I was simply >> speaking from a majority
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I dont think is lazier by default, just coddled. Nobody is allowed to hold them accountable for anything so they never learn. Theyre taught that their feelings matter, when they actually dont, not to the degree theyre led to believe at least. Those with good work ethics have brought our capabilities up so high that these who would normally have been culled by mother nature naturally are allowed to survive and ultimately taint the gene pool. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > I am a Boomer. When I was young, the lazy kids were called hippies or > beatniks or potheads. > I was a farm kid and my dad hired hippies that were Vietnam vets. Learned > a bunch from them. > They were hard workers. > > Not sure when Gen X started. But we had the “me” generation that was all > about me and not you. > Punk rockers were something I seem to recall with seemingly odd hair and > clothes. > > Later (I think or perhaps before) we had preppies that could not be > counted on to get their hands dirty. > At some point we had Millennials. > And now we have Millennial snowflakes that melt at harsh words or unkind > thoughts or ideas they don’t like. > > Is it just different names or are the actually youth getting physically > lazier? > > *From:* Adam Moffett > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 10:44 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > I'm 37. So I'm a grumpy old man only in spirit. > > In a younger group of employees, we can identify some who are going to be > successful, and we can see some who are going to end up living with Mom. > We'll be mistaken about some of them in each category, but by and large I > think you'll know what I mean. > > In the older group of employees, the ones who couldn't hack it have *already > *moved back in with Mom. Or they've gone to jail or they found a way to > collect a check. In which case the state is "Mom"; same thing only > different. The 30+ year old employees will look better as a group because > fewer non-hackers are standing next to them. > > People have been complaining about the next generation for so long that by > now we should have descended into a Mad Max movie. Instead we keep > progressing. There could *also* be a cultural shift towards lazinessor > a cultural shift towards productivity. It can't be measured just by > looking at the group of twenty somethings in front of you. > > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Ben Royer" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 4/24/2017 11:54:50 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > > Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even at > 33, so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young > kids, aged 18 to upper 20’s, don’t want to do anything, and want more money > for less work, if they could get paid to sit at home, they would. Sure, > one could make the argument the older generation has that group also, I can > attest to that, as I have a few of those employees also. But I was simply > speaking from a majority of what the employment pool has today. I can > assure you, at least in Central Illinois, there are more people that don’t > want to work in the ‘youth’ demographic, than people that want to earn > their pay. > > And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m > not looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern > generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are > challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes > as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way > they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even > more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every > generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful > generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a > trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer > have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of > folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make > $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share > the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has > also been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I > work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has > guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at > least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the > youth or culture, just giving an e
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I probably would too, but my HUGE hands would save me.
-Original Message-
From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I would break an ankle if I ran on uneven ground long enough unless I
had my braces on.
Carl Peterson wrote:
I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I
would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you to.
You can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take all day if
you need to but make him think through the install.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I never suggested not being safe.
Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:
“This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in
the truck heading home in just under two hours. But that was
two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a
loss with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on
job sites. I always run to the truck back from the truck and I
think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run and nothing is
done with any sense of urgency. “
So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am
100% on the side of the employer here.
Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to
fuck off.
The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not
even running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can
anyone defend that?
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Am soldier, no longer enlisted.
No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a
ladder accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice
and bashing their head by trying to rush on the job site.
Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world
shit hole, it really puts things into perspective.
Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well,
that's your call and you get to live with that for better or worse.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked
to hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an
installer to have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go
fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time
possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly
drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not
saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some
hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply
organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a
day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your
ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late,
BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons.
Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying
installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install
quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per
room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and
often has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no
wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your bus
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I am a Boomer. When I was young, the lazy kids were called hippies or beatniks or potheads. I was a farm kid and my dad hired hippies that were Vietnam vets. Learned a bunch from them. They were hard workers. Not sure when Gen X started. But we had the “me” generation that was all about me and not you. Punk rockers were something I seem to recall with seemingly odd hair and clothes. Later (I think or perhaps before) we had preppies that could not be counted on to get their hands dirty. At some point we had Millennials. And now we have Millennial snowflakes that melt at harsh words or unkind thoughts or ideas they don’t like. Is it just different names or are the actually youth getting physically lazier? From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:44 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I'm 37. So I'm a grumpy old man only in spirit. In a younger group of employees, we can identify some who are going to be successful, and we can see some who are going to end up living with Mom. We'll be mistaken about some of them in each category, but by and large I think you'll know what I mean. In the older group of employees, the ones who couldn't hack it have already moved back in with Mom. Or they've gone to jail or they found a way to collect a check. In which case the state is "Mom"; same thing only different. The 30+ year old employees will look better as a group because fewer non-hackers are standing next to them. People have been complaining about the next generation for so long that by now we should have descended into a Mad Max movie. Instead we keep progressing. There could *also* be a cultural shift towards lazinessor a cultural shift towards productivity. It can't be measured just by looking at the group of twenty somethings in front of you. -- Original Message -- From: "Ben Royer" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 11:54:50 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even at 33, so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young kids, aged 18 to upper 20’s, don’t want to do anything, and want more money for less work, if they could get paid to sit at home, they would. Sure, one could make the argument the older generation has that group also, I can attest to that, as I have a few of those employees also. But I was simply speaking from a majority of what the employment pool has today. I can assure you, at least in Central Illinois, there are more people that don’t want to work in the ‘youth’ demographic, than people that want to earn their pay. And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has also been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in our area. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:36 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I'm gonna drift a bit now: I take issue with the ageism. There's a tendency to look down on the next generation and say they're all lazy bums. You can find columns from the 40's describing the young people as lazy and immoral. I know I've seen one from the 1890's decrying the horrible tendencies of "today's" youth drinking, getting pregnant, and having no desire to work. Apparently every generation for at least a hundred years has thought the ones coming after them were stupid and lazy.
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I would break an ankle if I ran on uneven ground long enough unless I
had my braces on.
Carl Peterson wrote:
I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I
would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you
to. You can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take
all day if you need to but make him think through the install.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I never suggested not being safe.
Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:
“This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in
the truck heading home in just under two hours. But that was
two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a
loss with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on
job sites. I always run to the truck back from the truck and I
think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run and nothing is
done with any sense of urgency. “
So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am
100% on the side of the employer here.
Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to
fuck off.
The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not
even running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency.
How can anyone defend that?
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Am soldier, no longer enlisted.
No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a
ladder accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice
and bashing their head by trying to rush on the job site.
Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world
shit hole, it really puts things into perspective.
Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well,
that's your call and you get to live with that for better or worse.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked
to hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an
installer to have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go
fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time
possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly
drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth.
Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some
hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply
organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a
day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your
ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late,
BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons.
Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying
installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install
quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per
room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and
often has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no
wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX
or Les
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Maybe *shrug* Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: > I thought it was "hire fast and fire faster" > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Josh Luthman" > To: "af@afmug.com" > Sent: 4/24/2017 11:55:13 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > "First fast, hire slow" -Travis Johnson > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340> > Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343> > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them >> installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned veterans for >> two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they got a truck and were >> turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down, we gave them two more weeks >> and then they were let go if they did not turn it around. You cannot let >> it drag on. Cut them lose and move on. I never had regrets after firing >> anyone other than “should have done that about 3 years ago”. >> >> *From:* Ben Royer >> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I >> was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not >> the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a >> sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the >> division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all >> different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is >> my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a >> bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit >> installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, >> I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality >> lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their >> installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, >> was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end >> of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think >> that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from >> obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is >> satisfied, it’s a job well done. >> >> As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. >> We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of >> who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they >> understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the >> actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, >> now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 >> days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, >> and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working >> into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this >> time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out >> session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the >> Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as >> needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, >> they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them >> lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, >> expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the >> key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow >> because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a >> decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different >> tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of >> them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to >> explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all >> towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. >> >> If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s >> time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not >> cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I'm 37. So I'm a grumpy old man only in spirit. In a younger group of employees, we can identify some who are going to be successful, and we can see some who are going to end up living with Mom. We'll be mistaken about some of them in each category, but by and large I think you'll know what I mean. In the older group of employees, the ones who couldn't hack it have already moved back in with Mom. Or they've gone to jail or they found a way to collect a check. In which case the state is "Mom"; same thing only different. The 30+ year old employees will look better as a group because fewer non-hackers are standing next to them. People have been complaining about the next generation for so long that by now we should have descended into a Mad Max movie. Instead we keep progressing. There could *also* be a cultural shift towards lazinessor a cultural shift towards productivity. It can't be measured just by looking at the group of twenty somethings in front of you. -- Original Message -- From: "Ben Royer" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 11:54:50 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even at 33, so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young kids, aged 18 to upper 20’s, don’t want to do anything, and want more money for less work, if they could get paid to sit at home, they would. Sure, one could make the argument the older generation has that group also, I can attest to that, as I have a few of those employees also. But I was simply speaking from a majority of what the employment pool has today. I can assure you, at least in Central Illinois, there are more people that don’t want to work in the ‘youth’ demographic, than people that want to earn their pay. And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has also been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in our area. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From:Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:36 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I'm gonna drift a bit now: I take issue with the ageism. There's a tendency to look down on the next generation and say they're all lazy bums. You can find columns from the 40's describing the young people as lazy and immoral. I know I've seen one from the 1890's decrying the horrible tendencies of "today's" youth drinking, getting pregnant, and having no desire to work. Apparently every generation for at least a hundred years has thought the ones coming after them were stupid and lazy. Young people have things to learn, but feel that they don't. They make poor choices. It's all part of learning. It's not a problem with a particular generation, and it's not a cultural shift towards laziness. It's the young being youthful. I'm not saying sloth should be forgiven, I'm just saying you have to teach/show them. Maybe tell them to get the lead out, and see whether they do it or tell you fuck off. If they tell you to fuck off and you fire them, then you've taught them a valuable lesson about consequencesor they don't learn and move back into momma's house. If they do it, then they've learned something else. Maybe they've learned that the boss is a jerk, or maybe they've learned that expectations are higher than they thought but they ha
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I thought it was "hire fast and fire faster" -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Luthman" To: "af@afmug.com" Sent: 4/24/2017 11:55:13 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. "First fast, hire slow" -Travis Johnson Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned veterans for two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they got a truck and were turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down, we gave them two more weeks and then they were let go if they did not turn it around. You cannot let it drag on. Cut them lose and move on. I never had regrets after firing anyone other than “should have done that about 3 years ago”. From:Ben Royer Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From:Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM To:af@afmug.com Subjec
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
"First fast, hire slow" -Travis Johnson Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them > installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned veterans for > two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they got a truck and were > turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down, we gave them two more weeks > and then they were let go if they did not turn it around. You cannot let > it drag on. Cut them lose and move on. I never had regrets after firing > anyone other than “should have done that about 3 years ago”. > > *From:* Ben Royer > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I > was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not > the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a > sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the > division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all > different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is > my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a > bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit > installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, > I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality > lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their > installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, > was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end > of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think > that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from > obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is > satisfied, it’s a job well done. > > As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. > We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of > who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they > understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the > actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, > now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 > days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, > and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working > into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this > time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out > session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the > Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as > needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, > they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them > lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, > expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the > key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow > because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a > decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different > tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of > them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to > explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all > towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. > > If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s > time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not > cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, > mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of > things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees > are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that > has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a > huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed > the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure > once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas > will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go. > > Thank you, > Ben Royer, Operations Manager > Royell Communications, Inc. > 217-965-3699 <(217)%20965-3699> www.royell
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even at 33, so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young kids, aged 18 to upper 20’s, don’t want to do anything, and want more money for less work, if they could get paid to sit at home, they would. Sure, one could make the argument the older generation has that group also, I can attest to that, as I have a few of those employees also. But I was simply speaking from a majority of what the employment pool has today. I can assure you, at least in Central Illinois, there are more people that don’t want to work in the ‘youth’ demographic, than people that want to earn their pay. And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern generation has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are challenges to face and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes as I have 4 young children. The things they teach kids now, and the way they teach them, is way different than what I was raised to know, and even more disconnected from our fathers and their fathers before them. Every generation will have the youthful ones, but I think the current youthful generation is being raised in a world where they are taught everyone gets a trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the employer, because you no longer have people competing for position and pride, instead you have groups of folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15, we ALL should make $15 but Dan does more. Yeah, but Dan is my equal because we share the same title, and therefor should share the same pay. but Dan has also been here for 5 years, you just started... I don’t care, Dan and I work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he has guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately with at least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about the youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in our area. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:36 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I'm gonna drift a bit now: I take issue with the ageism. There's a tendency to look down on the next generation and say they're all lazy bums. You can find columns from the 40's describing the young people as lazy and immoral. I know I've seen one from the 1890's decrying the horrible tendencies of "today's" youth drinking, getting pregnant, and having no desire to work. Apparently every generation for at least a hundred years has thought the ones coming after them were stupid and lazy. Young people have things to learn, but feel that they don't. They make poor choices. It's all part of learning. It's not a problem with a particular generation, and it's not a cultural shift towards laziness. It's the young being youthful. I'm not saying sloth should be forgiven, I'm just saying you have to teach/show them. Maybe tell them to get the lead out, and see whether they do it or tell you fuck off. If they tell you to fuck off and you fire them, then you've taught them a valuable lesson about consequencesor they don't learn and move back into momma's house. If they do it, then they've learned something else. Maybe they've learned that the boss is a jerk, or maybe they've learned that expectations are higher than they thought but they have what it takes to meet them. Maybe they learn both. I, on the other hand, emerged from my mother's womb as a fully formed grumpy old man. So I know nothing of poor choices. -- Original Message ------ From: "Ben Royer" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 11:17:13 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy me
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting time. There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can just so that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get some over time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the cable, or calling the office to find out if there are any service calls we need him to do while he's walking back to the truck. What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about what kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the easiest possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how long it takes. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson wrote: > I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I > would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you to. You > can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take all day if you > need to but make him think through the install. > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> I never suggested not being safe. >> >> Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread: >> >> “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck >> heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. >> >> >> >> Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with >> this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run >> to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does >> not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “ >> >> So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% >> on the side of the employer here. >> Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck >> off. >> >> The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even >> running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone >> defend that? >> >> >> *From:* Josh Reynolds >> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> Am soldier, no longer enlisted. >> >> No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder >> accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their >> head by trying to rush on the job site. >> >> Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, >> it really puts things into perspective. >> >> Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your >> call and you get to live with that for better or worse. >> >> - Josh >> >> On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: >> >>> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) >>> in the following jobs? >>> Soldier >>> Life Guard >>> Fireman >>> EMT >>> Cop >>> Airline baggage loader, unloader >>> Airline fuel line operator >>> Personal Trainer >>> Flat Rate Roofer >>> Athlete >>> ER Nurse >>> Fast Food worker during lunch >>> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) >>> Ranch hand staking hay. >>> Subway sandwich maker during lunch. >>> Meat cutter. >>> >>> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to >>> jog/hustle/run. >>> >>> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have >>> some spring in their step. >>> >>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >>> >>> Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do >>> things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. >>> Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the >>> house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and >>> forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. >>> Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. >>> >>> At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If >>> you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, >>> probably give you a raise. >>> >>> But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead >>> of working I wou
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I'm gonna drift a bit now: I take issue with the ageism. There's a tendency to look down on the next generation and say they're all lazy bums. You can find columns from the 40's describing the young people as lazy and immoral. I know I've seen one from the 1890's decrying the horrible tendencies of "today's" youth drinking, getting pregnant, and having no desire to work. Apparently every generation for at least a hundred years has thought the ones coming after them were stupid and lazy. Young people have things to learn, but feel that they don't. They make poor choices. It's all part of learning. It's not a problem with a particular generation, and it's not a cultural shift towards laziness. It's the young being youthful. I'm not saying sloth should be forgiven, I'm just saying you have to teach/show them. Maybe tell them to get the lead out, and see whether they do it or tell you fuck off. If they tell you to fuck off and you fire them, then you've taught them a valuable lesson about consequencesor they don't learn and move back into momma's house. If they do it, then they've learned something else. Maybe they've learned that the boss is a jerk, or maybe they've learned that expectations are higher than they thought but they have what it takes to meet them. Maybe they learn both. I, on the other hand, emerged from my mother's womb as a fully formed grumpy old man. So I know nothing of poor choices. -- Original Message ------ From: "Ben Royer" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 11:17:13 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military gu
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I'm in the anti-run crowd. Thinking ahead is much more effective. I would try being his helper. Don't do anything unless he tells you to. You can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do. Take all day if you need to but make him think through the install. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > I never suggested not being safe. > > Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread: > > “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck > heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. > > > > Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with > this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run > to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does > not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “ > > So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% on > the side of the employer here. > Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck > off. > > The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even > running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone > defend that? > > > *From:* Josh Reynolds > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > Am soldier, no longer enlisted. > > No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder > accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their > head by trying to rush on the job site. > > Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, > it really puts things into perspective. > > Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your > call and you get to live with that for better or worse. > > - Josh > > On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: > >> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) >> in the following jobs? >> Soldier >> Life Guard >> Fireman >> EMT >> Cop >> Airline baggage loader, unloader >> Airline fuel line operator >> Personal Trainer >> Flat Rate Roofer >> Athlete >> ER Nurse >> Fast Food worker during lunch >> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) >> Ranch hand staking hay. >> Subway sandwich maker during lunch. >> Meat cutter. >> >> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. >> >> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have >> some spring in their step. >> >> *From:* Chuck McCown >> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things >> perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why >> would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? >> There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not >> saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of >> movements. That includes tool and supply organization. >> >> At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If >> you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, >> probably give you a raise. >> >> But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead >> of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... >> >> *From:* Josh Reynolds >> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. >> >> Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads >> to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause >> you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as >> they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks >> bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. >> >> Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted >> efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. >> >> "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." >> >> In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. >> >> - Josh >> >> On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: >> >> Well the
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned veterans for two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they got a truck and were turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down, we gave them two more weeks and then they were let go if they did not turn it around. You cannot let it drag on. Cut them lose and move on. I never had regrets after firing anyone other than “should have done that about 3 years ago”. From: Ben Royer Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise. But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to forgotten t
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I never suggested not being safe.
Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:
“This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading
home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with this
guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run to the
truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run
and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “
So who are you being the advocate for in this situation? Me, I am 100% on the
side of the employer here.
Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck off.
The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even
running. It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency. How can anyone
defend that?
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Am soldier, no longer enlisted.
No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder accident
or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their head by
trying to rush on the job site.
Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, it
really puts things into perspective.
Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your call
and you get to live with that for better or worse.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in
the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some
spring in their step.
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things
perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would
you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to
sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements.
That includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you
get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you,
probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of
working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to
forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to
end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get
paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often
has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab
or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like
an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need
to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to
take their time.
From: Timothy Steele
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start
looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to
run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to
do
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Yeah, I'm an employee, and I've been here for 13 years so I've seen almost all types of techs. You can expect most satellite installers to be lazy and do shitty work. Been there several times. Never again. However, there are sub-types of sat guys. The guys that started their own Dish/DTV/Wildblue/etc contracting companies and maybe had a couple employees of their own. Like any business owner, they want things done right and efficiently. So they are typically very fast and detail oriented. We picked up a couple over the years. We had a couple 10 year guys that did everything, tower climbing included. Both of them could do an install in under 3 hours. 2 hours wasn't unheard of. So years of experience definitely comes into play. Some guys get it instantly, most are average, and some are somewhat slow learners. Our lead tower and field guy came out of the military as a radio/satcom tech. In the beginning, it took him 4-5 hours on an install. I'd say after 5-6 months, he got to the point of looking at a job for a few minutes, planning it all out in his head and gets to work, just like the experienced guys. Again, things get easier and more efficient with experience. Owners and experienced guys need to check your perspective. Someone else already said it.. new guys will never be as good or as fast as you. But you gotta give people a chance. If they're not up to standards after 6 months, then I agree, think about letting them go. For an owner, sure, it's your business, so do what you feel is best for your company. On 4/24/2017 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: I'm not an owner, I'm an employee. I hustle because I never want someone to look at what I'm doing and say, "That Adam guy, he sure does suck." I don't tolerate poor performance in myself, and I have a really hard time tolerating it from others. I'm not a genius or a football star, I just don't give up. I would not quit just because someone wanted me to try harder. If he can do it, I can do it. It's possible that I'm an insufferable bastard, but at least I know I'm pulling my own weight. Tell me to run! -- Original Message -- From: "Timothy Steele" <mailto:timothy.pct...@gmail.com>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: 4/24/2017 9:53:22 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. *From:* Brandon Yuchasz *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
On 4/24/17 8:02 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: I guess if you grow up playing video games in the basement, never stepping outside to play ball or hike. Getting a doctor's note to avoid PE classes. Never participating in sports. Never mowing lawns to make some coin. I guess you develop an attitude that employers only get whatever you condescend to give them. Yeah that will take you far. I broke my arm to avoid PE in middle school, that's the man's way. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I would expect all installers, when the weather is decent and there is a long walk between the ladder and the truck, to move faster than walking. Where is their self resepect and pride in their productivity if they are dragging their ass. But yes, how many perfect installs can you knock out each day. That is the bottom line for me. I want your truck to be clean and organized. I want you to look clean and organized. If you can outperform all the other guys and still drag your ass, point proven I guess, still a disgrace. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:01 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I wouldn't expect someone to run. But hustling is not running to me. Hustling is thinking ahead, being prepared, _being efficient_. I am horrible about keeping my vehicle clean, but I know where everything is and go right to where what I need is. I don't clean the truck in the field in front of a customer. I do make sure all parts for any installs that day are prepped before leaving the office. Putting something together sitting down in a chair with all the tools at hand can save 10-20 minutes in the field. Most delays that I see are with customers that get into the install process and installers that don't get ahead of the customer. The overriding thoughts for the installer needs to be two things.. 1) time is money so if the install is a fixed price then the faster they get it done the more they make. A three hour install should feel like money left on the table. 2) rework is double money out of every ones pockets and installers should share in that loss. So get it done, get it done right and in the least time possible. And as IBM drilled into me very young. THINK If the installer is driving up to an install singing with the latest country song, they aren't in the job. On 4/24/17 6:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don�t pay anyone to take their time. *From:* Timothy Steele *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said �RUN!� when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in �management by telling� you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. *From:* Brandon Yuchasz *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Am soldier, no longer enlisted. No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their head by trying to rush on the job site. Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, it really puts things into perspective. Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your call and you get to live with that for better or worse. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: > Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) > in the following jobs? > Soldier > Life Guard > Fireman > EMT > Cop > Airline baggage loader, unloader > Airline fuel line operator > Personal Trainer > Flat Rate Roofer > Athlete > ER Nurse > Fast Food worker during lunch > Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) > Ranch hand staking hay. > Subway sandwich maker during lunch. > Meat cutter. > > I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. > > I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have > some spring in their step. > > *From:* Chuck McCown > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things > perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why > would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? > There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not > saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of > movements. That includes tool and supply organization. > > At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If > you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, > probably give you a raise. > > But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of > working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... > > *From:* Josh Reynolds > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. > > Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads > to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause > you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as > they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks > bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. > > Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted > efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. > > "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." > > In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. > > - Josh > > On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: > > Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab > or Tunex or .. > > Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them > like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and > they need to work efficiently. > > It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone > to take their time. > > *From:* Timothy Steele > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > > If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start > looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me > to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: > >> You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they >> decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. >> >> I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to >> do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it >> to 4 or keep them on piece rate. >> >> Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to >> house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a >> bit of drill sergeant treatment. >> >> I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in >> simple and clear terms exactly what you want. >> >> >> >> *From:* Brandon Yuchasz >> *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. >> >> I w
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I wouldn't expect someone to run. But hustling is not running to me. Hustling is thinking ahead, being prepared, _being efficient_. I am horrible about keeping my vehicle clean, but I know where everything is and go right to where what I need is. I don't clean the truck in the field in front of a customer. I do make sure all parts for any installs that day are prepped before leaving the office. Putting something together sitting down in a chair with all the tools at hand can save 10-20 minutes in the field. Most delays that I see are with customers that get into the install process and installers that don't get ahead of the customer. The overriding thoughts for the installer needs to be two things.. 1) time is money so if the install is a fixed price then the faster they get it done the more they make. A three hour install should feel like money left on the table. 2) rework is double money out of every ones pockets and installers should share in that loss. So get it done, get it done right and in the least time possible. And as IBM drilled into me very young. THINK If the installer is driving up to an install singing with the latest country song, they aren't in the job. On 4/24/17 6:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don�t pay anyone to take their time. *From:* Timothy Steele *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said �RUN!� when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in �management by telling� you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. *From:* Brandon Yuchasz *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here�.. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the p
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I guess if you grow up playing video games in the basement, never stepping outside to play ball or hike. Getting a doctor's note to avoid PE classes. Never participating in sports. Never mowing lawns to make some coin. I guess you develop an attitude that employers only get whatever you condescend to give them. Yeah that will take you far. -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:51 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. On 4/24/17 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some spring in their step. It's just the new attitude. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
On 4/24/17 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some spring in their step. It's just the new attitude. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
"Fast Food worker during lunch" I can make a Whopper like a boss. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 10:46:07 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in the following jobs? Soldier Life Guard Fireman EMT Cop Airline baggage loader, unloader Airline fuel line operator Personal Trainer Flat Rate Roofer Athlete ER Nurse Fast Food worker during lunch Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) Ranch hand staking hay. Subway sandwich maker during lunch. Meat cutter. I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some spring in their step. From:Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise. But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... From:Josh Reynolds Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From:Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From:Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the d
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in the following jobs? Soldier Life Guard Fireman EMT Cop Airline baggage loader, unloader Airline fuel line operator Personal Trainer Flat Rate Roofer Athlete ER Nurse Fast Food worker during lunch Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once) Ranch hand staking hay. Subway sandwich maker during lunch. Meat cutter. I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run. I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some spring in their step. From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise. But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From: Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise. But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From: Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions t
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. *From:* Timothy Steele *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: > You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide > that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. > > I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do > at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to > 4 or keep them on piece rate. > > Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? > Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of > drill sergeant treatment. > > I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in > simple and clear terms exactly what you want. > > > > *From:* Brandon Yuchasz > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway > sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to > teach / train a new installer to work faster? > > > > We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other > duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good > understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he > is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. > > > > I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where > the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of > time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install > here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You > could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a > breeze. > > > > I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered > a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not > counting drive time. > > > > I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers > permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a > single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer > with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 > hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. > > > > So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then > took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire > install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I > left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to > not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions > to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster > process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed > up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is > a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 > > > > I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on > installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out > three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when > I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove > a half hour to what I considered a hard install
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I just don’t like wasting time. When I was an installer I ran every step, it was fun. I liked to prove to the boss I was the fastest and best installer they had, and I was. To me it was always a fun competition to blow away the older dudes. We used to have a work order coded of 232 (the FCC assigns general ledger codes to telephone companies). A 232 was a complete install to a house that had never had service before. Generally involved climbing a pole, attaching a drop. Ladder on the house, attaching the drop. Installing a protector and ground rod (called NID now-a-days). Then going inside to run “station wire” from the protector to the phone. Mount the “connector block” (no jacks, the phone was hard wired to the wall). Test, visit with the lady of the house, clean up and head back. I did a 232 in 24 minutes once. I was proud of that record. No one ever topped it or even came close as far as I know. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:07 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I'm not an owner, I'm an employee. I hustle because I never want someone to look at what I'm doing and say, "That Adam guy, he sure does suck." I don't tolerate poor performance in myself, and I have a really hard time tolerating it from others. I'm not a genius or a football star, I just don't give up. I would not quit just because someone wanted me to try harder. If he can do it, I can do it. It's possible that I'm an insufferable bastard, but at least I know I'm pulling my own weight. Tell me to run! -- Original Message -- From: "Timothy Steele" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 9:53:22 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I'm not an owner, I'm an employee. I hustle because I never want someone to look at what I'm doing and say, "That Adam guy, he sure does suck." I don't tolerate poor performance in myself, and I have a really hard time tolerating it from others. I'm not a genius or a football star, I just don't give up. I would not quit just because someone wanted me to try harder. If he can do it, I can do it. It's possible that I'm an insufferable bastard, but at least I know I'm pulling my own weight. Tell me to run! -- Original Message -- From: "Timothy Steele" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/24/2017 9:53:22 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From:Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together.
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or .. Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From: Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a t
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown wrote: > You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide > that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. > > I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do > at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to > 4 or keep them on piece rate. > > Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? > Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of > drill sergeant treatment. > > I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in > simple and clear terms exactly what you want. > > > > *From:* Brandon Yuchasz > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway > sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to > teach / train a new installer to work faster? > > > > We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other > duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good > understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he > is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. > > > > I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where > the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of > time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install > here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You > could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a > breeze. > > > > I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered > a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not > counting drive time. > > > > I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers > permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a > single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer > with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 > hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. > > > > So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then > took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire > install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I > left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to > not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions > to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster > process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed > up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is > a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 > > > > I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on > installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out > three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when > I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove > a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done > at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was > just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the > driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was > going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was > going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly > asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish > reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a > between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. > > > > Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. > > > > I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot > 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never > seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the > house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. > And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the > back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the > doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help > with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I > walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing > down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the > wireles
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we just ran th
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
same boat here, i used to do 5-7 jobs a day (not all installs, but i could easily knock out 4 and be home by 7pm if i left the office by 10 even if i ran into a shitshow, and i managed the network and handled tech support one id get connected at each customers house) now im happy if our guys gets 2 installs or 3 upgrades in a day (not happy, but happy) expectation is always higher from people who take ownership in their job, even if they arent owners, im cursed with that affliction, most guys dont, its just a job, it is what it is those of us who can "see" an install before they finish the survey tend to have minds that are always busy, we are usually the guys who cant sleep at night because as we are closing our eyes we wonder if that crimp we made two years ago on the job before we found out our crimper blade was dull is going to fail, and we consider for a minute maybe we should drive over real quick tonite and put a new end, then realize its stupid, but it doesnt matter because by this point we are thinking about something else, and the pillow is getting so hot. alot of guys just hit and install one step at a time. i also did stuff that was questionably safe like climbing a rusty 40 foot tower with a laptop and a small battery backup in a backpack because cellphones werent as useful and the battery market wasnt awesome. regular guys expect if any issue whatsoever with the install tools happens they will just call in i went out with the current guy, hes just slow, and he talks too much, has the problem where if his mouth is moving his hands arent. get onsite, greet customer, always moving, get the restrictions, give them a rough idea of intent, always moving to the inside, find where they want it, figure out the exit, and you have your inside plan. I made the guys some good test cables, each 70 foot long with clear markings every ten foot. run from the inverter, mount, peak, if its warm you already terminated the top of the outdoor cable and brought that end up with you, secure it on the way down to the point of entry, cut and terminate it, mount the SS and plug it in. if its cold, you know your footage from the cable markers, hop in the van pull out the right amount of cable terminate both ends in the toasty van, run up, plug it in, secure it on the way down, boom, youre ready to put your ladder and outside stuff back in the van. grab the indoor cable, drill your hole, push the cable in, go inside, drill any holes, grab your cable, get it to the end point, terminate it, do any stapling or whatever you need to do. go outside, terminate, plug it in the SS, seal any holes with mastic, bam. go inside, drop the power supply and router, add everything to the system. train the customer for 20 minutes, move on. nope.. not at all, Ive seen this guy on roof with a box of outdoor cable in his hand, ive seen him take a cable up, wrap it around a radio come down cut it to length, climb up to get it off, climb down terminate the top, climb down terminate the bottom, climb up and secure the cable. and thats an efficient day On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:32 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: > It's not too much to ask for a person to do an internet install in 2-3 > hours. > They ought to be able to hit that goal in 90 days or less. If they > couldn't I would try someone new. > > If their full time mission is doing new installations, then the goal > should be to give them 3 per day IMO. Drive time is a big wild card here > of course. If you had the luxury of installing people who are all within 5 > minute drive of each other, then you could do 4 or even 5 per day**. I > know because I've done it, and I'm not a super man. I'm motivated, but > I've seen people more motivated than me. > > My preference would actually be 2 per day. It's achievable. The > installer has time to do a really nice job and make sure the customer is > happy. It's not overly stressful. He's likely to have some extra time > which can be used for a last minute service call, or to reorganize the van, > or whatever. > > **I'll grant you I could not get up tomorrow and do 5 installs. I'm older > and fatter and out of practice. Just saying it can be done. > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Brandon Yuchasz" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 4/23/2017 7:37:11 PM > Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway > sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to > teach / train a new installer to work faster? > > > > We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other > duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good > understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he > is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. > > > > I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where > the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahe
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
It's not too much to ask for a person to do an internet install in 2-3 hours. They ought to be able to hit that goal in 90 days or less. If they couldn't I would try someone new. If their full time mission is doing new installations, then the goal should be to give them 3 per day IMO. Drive time is a big wild card here of course. If you had the luxury of installing people who are all within 5 minute drive of each other, then you could do 4 or even 5 per day**. I know because I've done it, and I'm not a super man. I'm motivated, but I've seen people more motivated than me. My preference would actually be 2 per day. It's achievable. The installer has time to do a really nice job and make sure the customer is happy. It's not overly stressful. He's likely to have some extra time which can be used for a last minute service call, or to reorganize the van, or whatever. **I'll grant you I could not get up tomorrow and do 5 installs. I'm older and fatter and out of practice. Just saying it can be done. -- Original Message -- From: "Brandon Yuchasz" To: af@afmug.com Sent: 4/23/2017 7:37:11 PM Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I gra
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I had a guy like that a few years back. He was a satellite installer, so he should have been faster, but for the life of me I couldn’t get him to do installs in less than 3-5 hours each. He was contract installer, so I paid same dollar amount per install, no overage. Same as your guy it appears, super nice, mostly great installer. Some things he just never really learned though, was always calling in on things he should have learned over the years. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:15 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Speed comes with practice and experience and a need to be quick. If you force him to be fast when he's not ready, be prepared to utilize your insurance carrier and for trips to the hospital. One of the best installers I ever saw was absolute shit his first 9 months on the job. Over time he could: drive up to the building, work out the install in his head without getting out of the truck, start his install documentation, do his customer meet and greet and education, install, confirm install with customer, finish documentation, and leave in the time it took two moderately trained techs to start aligning the radio. Some people just aren't good at it, sure.. bit you'll never know if you don't give people time to learn and grow. - Josh On Apr 23, 2017 6:37 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" mailto:li...@gogebicrange.net>> wrote: I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the bac
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Speed comes with practice and experience and a need to be quick. If you force him to be fast when he's not ready, be prepared to utilize your insurance carrier and for trips to the hospital. One of the best installers I ever saw was absolute shit his first 9 months on the job. Over time he could: drive up to the building, work out the install in his head without getting out of the truck, start his install documentation, do his customer meet and greet and education, install, confirm install with customer, finish documentation, and leave in the time it took two moderately trained techs to start aligning the radio. Some people just aren't good at it, sure.. bit you'll never know if you don't give people time to learn and grow. - Josh On Apr 23, 2017 6:37 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" wrote: > I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway > sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to > teach / train a new installer to work faster? > > > > We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other > duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good > understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he > is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. > > > > I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where > the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of > time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install > here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You > could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a > breeze. > > > > I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered > a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not > counting drive time. > > > > I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers > permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a > single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer > with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 > hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. > > > > So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then > took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire > install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I > left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to > not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions > to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster > process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed > up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is > a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 > > > > I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on > installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out > three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when > I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove > a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done > at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was > just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the > driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was > going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was > going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly > asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish > reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a > between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. > > > > Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. > > > > I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot > 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never > seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the > house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. > And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the > back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the > doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help > with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I > walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing > down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the > wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up the > roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod > and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had > put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had c
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If it was me, I'd clearly explain the expectations after two months of employment and let him know that you'll be making a decision in two weeks. Maybe that will motivate him. If not, don't feel bad about letting him go. Honestly, 4-5 hours on an install for a new guy isn't far from normal. Most of our guys were there in the beginning. Usually after 3 months, they can hammer out an install in 2-3 hours. Just keep in mind that everyone is different. It just takes some people a little bit longer to get it. What you don't want to do is let a potentially really good tech go. On 4/23/2017 6:37 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote: I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here�.. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32�) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it�s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house �that�s the back� he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the wire in the box( I don�t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we just ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just un
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I agree. My other installer (with 10yrs experience) is nearly as fast (mostly 3 hrs). He still gets confused sometimes when it is a screwball situation but we all do. Jim Bouse Owner Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi 979-985-5912 j...@brazoswifi.com From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Keefe John Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:20 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Nobody will ever be as fast you. You can hope for half as fast. Keefe On April 23, 2017 6:54:48 PM CDT, "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote: I am in the exact same boat. New guy is slow as cold molasses. My installs are normally 2 hours. Maybe 3. His are 4 or 5. So his days are 10 hours (yay overtime). When we work together, it seems that he just has his head up his butt and doesn't realize what step comes next. Good luck! Jim Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Brandon Yuchasz mailto:li...@gogebicrange.net>> Date: 4/23/17 6:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the m
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Nobody will ever be as fast you. You can hope for half as fast. Keefe On April 23, 2017 6:54:48 PM CDT, "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" wrote: >I am in the exact same boat. New guy is slow as cold molasses. > >My installs are normally 2 hours. Maybe 3. >His are 4 or 5. So his days are 10 hours (yay overtime). > >When we work together, it seems that he just has his head up his butt >and doesn't realize what step comes next. > >Good luck! > >Jim > >Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > Original message >From: Brandon Yuchasz >Date: 4/23/17 6:37 PM (GMT-06:00) >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > >I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway >sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about >trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? > >We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other >duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good >understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that >he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. > >I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out >where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys >ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the >survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here >and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and >tuning the radio was a breeze. > >I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I >considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 >hours not counting drive time. > >I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers >permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not >a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another >installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He >came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both >experienced. > >So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and >then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the >entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install >router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions >but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that >if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him >figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the >install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should >mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should >be had here. I left him at 9:00 > >I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on >installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out >three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max >when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new >guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it >alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. >When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck >was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known >to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork >and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in >did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck >some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a >family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final >install of the day. > >Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last >job. > >I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot >100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had >never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the >back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can >access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the >drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay >and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with >him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed him to >start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up and the >supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, >mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune and >scurried up the small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this short. We >hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod and I went down and he >had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put one on a 3 foot >scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the wire in the box( >I don’t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we just ran the job >and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS >and we
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
When you are new getting a good process of running the install in your head how to deal with stupid Netgear router that lie and say they have no internet and trying to figure out why it's slow when you are done and figuring out you had a wire crossed all that adds a lot of time to a install when you first start you really would have to work with the guy and judge him by his attitude is he wanting to find better ways to get done faster?, or is he stuck in his own ways?. Or is he just milking the jobs because he needs over time?? Without meeting the guy none of us can give you any real help On Sun, Apr 23, 2017, 7:54 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote: > I am in the exact same boat. New guy is slow as cold molasses. > > My installs are normally 2 hours. Maybe 3. > His are 4 or 5. So his days are 10 hours (yay overtime). > > When we work together, it seems that he just has his head up his butt and > doesn't realize what step comes next. > > Good luck! > > Jim > > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > Original message > From: Brandon Yuchasz > Date: 4/23/17 6:37 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway > sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to > teach / train a new installer to work faster? > > > > We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other > duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good > understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he > is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. > > > > I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where > the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of > time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install > here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You > could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a > breeze. > > > > I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered > a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not > counting drive time. > > > > I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers > permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a > single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer > with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 > hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. > > > > So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then > took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire > install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I > left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to > not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions > to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster > process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed > up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is > a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 > > > > I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on > installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out > three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when > I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove > a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done > at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was > just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the > driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was > going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was > going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly > asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish > reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a > between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. > > > > Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. > > > > I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot > 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never > seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the > house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. > And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the > back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the > doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help > with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I
Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I am in the exact same boat. New guy is slow as cold molasses. My installs are normally 2 hours. Maybe 3. His are 4 or 5. So his days are 10 hours (yay overtime). When we work together, it seems that he just has his head up his butt and doesn't realize what step comes next. Good luck! Jim Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Brandon Yuchasz Date: 4/23/17 6:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we just ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with this guy. I di
