Re: [Drakelist] R4C AM Filter
Tim, Check out INRAD filters, buying a used filter that’s 30 to 35 years old is a gamble, crystals age and the center frequency or shape factor can change, been there myself! 73, Gary___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Filter WTB
I have one made by Network Sciences, Inc.: 250Hz at 5695KHz. It worked in the radio I pulled it from. $80 shipped to Ohio. 73, George K4GM lane denune Sunday, April 28, 2013 3:08 PM Guess I should have phrased my post more accurately. I am looking to purchase a used 250hz CW filter for my R4C Drake Receiver. Thanks for the many replies with references to dealers and filter suppliers. 73 lane de n8aft___Drakelist mailing listDrakelist@zerobeat.nethttp://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor
Max, I'll get crucified for saying this, but that class A transistor stage was poorly designed -- and I think we can dispense with the but they didn't have cost-effective transistor technology back thirty years ago as an excuse. A two-transistor complementary-symmetry PP pair running class AB and a moderate amount of negative feedback would have sounded substantially better, and produced much less heat. As an example, look at the Marantz, Sansui, Kenwood, and other mid-fi Japanese audio amplifiers being produced during the same period. Those designs, or a variant, could easily have been leveraged into the R-4C. Eliminate the audio output transformer and tap the symmetry pair mid-point, then couple with 500+ uF of series coupling C. I don't know what Drake's cost was for the audio output transformer, but I have to believe the production cost difference between the transformer and an extra audio output transistor, and surrounding passive parts would have been reasonably minimal. I jettisoned the R-4C AF stage after the volume control and won't be going back. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: Max Cotton To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:10 PM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor I have a very nice R4C it had a hum with bad audio distortion so I decided to investigate, whilst taking it apart I noticed that if I touched the noise blanker the hum would alter, I removed the NB board and the hum was still there, I found eventually that the audio transistor had desoldered itself, do they really run that hot? so I resolded the wires, now the radio does not work anything like as well and has a high amount of white noise, has that audio transistor died and if so where do I get a new one, is there an equivalent for that power transistor? 73, Max M0GHQ -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor
I tried one, but to my ears, there's too much hiss with some high-end headphones with the AF control at low settings and even full CCW. I've tried the LM383, LM380, and TDA2002. The hiss can be reduced with an in-line attenuator, then running the AF control at a higher level to compensate. I would rather just deal with the root issue and solve it. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: w...@arrl.net ; drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor Why not install a Sherwood audio kit ...I have one in mine..works FB 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 2:37 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor Max, I'll get crucified for saying this, but that class A transistor stage was poorly designed -- and I think we can dispense with the but they didn't have cost-effective transistor technology back thirty years ago as an excuse. A two-transistor complementary-symmetry PP pair running class AB and a moderate amount of negative feedback would have sounded substantially better, and produced much less heat. As an example, look at the Marantz, Sansui, Kenwood, and other mid-fi Japanese audio amplifiers being produced during the same period. Those designs, or a variant, could easily have been leveraged into the R-4C. Eliminate the audio output transformer and tap the symmetry pair mid-point, then couple with 500+ uF of series coupling C. I don't know what Drake's cost was for the audio output transformer, but I have to believe the production cost difference between the transformer and an extra audio output transistor, and surrounding passive parts would have been reasonably minimal. I jettisoned the R-4C AF stage after the volume control and won't be going back. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: Max Cotton To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:10 PM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor I have a very nice R4C it had a hum with bad audio distortion so I decided to investigate, whilst taking it apart I noticed that if I touched the noise blanker the hum would alter, I removed the NB board and the hum was still there, I found eventually that the audio transistor had desoldered itself, do they really run that hot? so I resolded the wires, now the radio does not work anything like as well and has a high amount of white noise, has that audio transistor died and if so where do I get a new one, is there an equivalent for that power transistor? 73, Max M0GHQ ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor
I must admit this receiver will probably benefit from the Sherwood audio board, however comparing both my R4C's one is perfect with no hum and very good audio whilst this one is shushy and has bad hum, maybe the main caps need replacing but when I couple another cap accross them no change so I am a little reluctant to ditch them quite yet. swapping the tubes between each made no difference either. It does do an odd thing though, gradually as it warms up the audio and signal gets worse until it is distorted and with a lot of white noise. When switched on, the hum is really bad immediately and does not go away. both receivers are 26000 serials within about 700 from each other. Ideas? 73 Max M0GHQ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor
- Original Message - From: Max Cotton airra...@dsl.pipex.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10 AM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor I have a very nice R4C it had a hum with bad audio distortion so I decided to investigate, whilst taking it apart I noticed that if I touched the noise blanker the hum would alter, I removed the NB board and the hum was still there, I found eventually that the audio transistor had desoldered itself, do they really run that hot? so I resolded the wires, now the radio does not work anything like as well and has a high amount of white noise, has that audio transistor died and if so where do I get a new one, is there an equivalent for that power transistor? 73, Max M0GHQ Which transistor desoldered itself? Its possible it was overdriven because the bias was wrong. The three transistors in the audio amp are direct coupled so a problem with any of them will affect all. Check the power supply voltages and the amount of ripple on each. While a scope is the best tool for looking at ripple any AC voltmeter capable of reading perhaps ten percent of the DC voltage will do. Distortion is likely if one or more of the transistors is bad. Check the caps around the audio amp. You will have to check them for leakage rather than ESR. You will probably have to substitute them. Unfortunately, the only schematic I have for the C is from BAMA and is so low res that I can't even read the voltages or part designators. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickb...@ix.netcom.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor
Hi Max, I replaced the original audio amp in the R4C with a Velleman audio kit board with an TDA2003. The Velleman kit # K4001. I believe I paid around $ 15.00. Works great. If you're interested I can send you pics. 73 Bert, VE3NR _ From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Max Cotton Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:12 PM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Hum and audio transistor I must admit this receiver will probably benefit from the Sherwood audio board, however comparing both my R4C's one is perfect with no hum and very good audio whilst this one is shushy and has bad hum, maybe the main caps need replacing but when I couple another cap accross them no change so I am a little reluctant to ditch them quite yet. swapping the tubes between each made no difference either. It does do an odd thing though, gradually as it warms up the audio and signal gets worse until it is distorted and with a lot of white noise. When switched on, the hum is really bad immediately and does not go away. both receivers are 26000 serials within about 700 from each other. Ideas? 73 Max M0GHQ ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C 160 Meters Sensitivity
On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 19:49 -0500, Bill Becky wrote: Hi Group Has anyone found a way to improve the sensitivity on the 160 Meter Band?? It seems less lively compared to the other bands even after alignment. Thanks in advance Bill KB9IV There really very few instances where any increased sensitivity is useful on 160M. If you listen to your radio without the antenna attached and note the audio output and then attach the antenna you will probably hear an increase in the audio output. If you do hear an increase, any additional sensitivity does you no good as the band noise will be amplified along with the signals by an equal amount. An undesirable, associated effect is that the Rx will be more easily overloaded. Figure 1 on the 2nd page of the following .pdf shows some of the factors that go into the type and amount of noise picked up by the average antenna. Note the residual noise level as you move downward thru the amateur bands. Factors such as proximity to your neighbors, the kind of consumer junk they have in use, above or below ground utilities and the like, tend toward more rather than less noise. http://www.support.seasonde.com/Technicians_Information_Page_for_SeaSondes/Site_Selection_files/HF_Noise2.pdf Now if you do not hear an increase, your BOG or 500' Beverage or 2' Rx loop might need some amplification. If you are using your Tx antenna and you are not hearing a noise increase when the antenna is attached, you might want to find out why. Some DeOxit might be in order. Someone with the appropriate test equipment might determine what the band by band sensitivity of their R4-C is to see if your experience is abnormal or par for the course. Some of the Drake equipment like the TR3 and TR4 run out of steam at the bottom of their lowest band due to the size of the tuning capacitor(s). You might verify that when the preselector is set at the bottom and top of the 160M segment you see the same apparent sensitivity. Joe, K9HDE ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C overall gain specification
- Original Message - From: Alan Ibbetson a...@g3xaq.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C overall gain specification I have the data I was seeking on R4C overall gain, thanks to Steve Wedge W1ES/4. The original 1974 QST review gives it as 0.1uV or less for 10dB S+N/N. Although my receiver can detect a 0.1uV signal it's well short of that amount of audio output, so it looks like I have some work to do to find a bit more gain. -- Alan Ibbetson a...@g3xaq.net Older receiver specs gave a minimum audio output level for a given input level. This is useful for seeing if the receiver is working correctly and is, I think, what you want. The spec as given above does not specify an output level so it really does not indicate gain. Its a typical old style spec for noise level and is again useful for checking a particular kind of receiver for normal function but not much else. The R4C book gives a spec of 0.7 watt of audio at the AVC threshold and a minimum power output of 2 watts at less than 5% THD. You can check the power output using a resistor load and voltmeter but monitor with a scope to keep from going into overload. 5% is just visible. Presumably, the AVC threshold is where the S meter just begins to indicate, or just a bit below that. I would do the S meter adjustment procedure before trying this measurement. If you find the receiver is really not up to snuff its worth going through the entire adjustment procedure. I think Garrey Barrell has a disc for the R4C and it may have stage gain info, contact him about this. He is _not_ on this list. www.k4oah.com -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickb...@ix.netcom.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Interesting Find
Bill, Interesting. Same issue with the Drake 1A. Sensitivity is affected by the quality of the antenna trimmer capacitor bonding to chassis ground. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: Bill Becky To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 7:44 PM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Interesting Find My R4C seemed a bit poor in the sensitivity department so I had an idea to improve it. I aligned the R4C pretty well but it didn't seem very lively. So with the bottom chassis visible I took my screw driver and loosened/ tightend each screw twice on each side of the 4 rows of trimmer bracket ground. Wow.what a difference in sensitivity mainly 160-20M and in between. I estimate a 8-10 dB of more gain. I learned this method of re-establishing grounds from a metallurgist(sp)ham neighbor who showed me what happens to two surfaces create a fine film a lose bonding with time. If the two metals are much different the faster the degradation. Your mileage may vary. I recommend all accessible screws and nuts...it can cure some pretty obscure problems and takes less than 15 minutes. I had to recalibrate the S-meter because of the gain change. It should work on R4any receiveror any old boatanchor. Bill KB9IV -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C SSB Leakage
Bill, Are the levels what they ought to be through the signal chain? A poor solder joint that reduced normal signal levels could cause the relative strength of leakage to rise. Another possibility is that someone fixed something and the receiver is now miswired. 73, AD3K From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Bill Becky Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 4:02 PM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C SSB Leakage Hi Group I have written previously about my R4C having signal leakage in the SSB mode only affecting the PBT control and S-meter levels. Someone suggested that the 4NB was causing the leakage so I removed the 4NB and put some wire jumpers as I didn't have a 4NB plug, no change. However I ordered a aftermarket socket plug to do a sanity check..guess what..it got worse!!! Instead of a S5 level leakage it then went to S9 with the shorting plug??!! I guess I've narrowed it down to something on or near the NB4 jack underneath. So much for the sanity check..bizarre. Best 73 Bill KB9IV ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Speaker Output
- Original Message - From: Bill Becky wmarv...@charter.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 8:35 PM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Speaker Output Hi Group On the R4C speaker output which is 3.2 ohms. Can this audio be attached to a computer's microphone jack (typically 50K) using a resistor pad to prevent overload?? 73 Bill KB9IV Short answer is yes. I would make a simple pad with a 4 ohm resistor across the output and a high value resistor or pot feeding the computer line. The resistor across the output will insure the amplifier is seeing something like the right load which will give best frequency responce and minimum distortion. OTOH, the headphone jack is fed from the same place as the speaker jack and will feed phones of almost any impedance so its probably not very critical. If your computer has a line input you might try that as well. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickb...@ix.netcom.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C BFO Leakage
Have you been able to remove the NB-4 and bypass it with the jumper plug as yet? I have experienced this problem and I have found the NB-4 to be the culprit. You may be embarking on a process to eliminate symptoms rather than fixing the problem. JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Bill Becky Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2012 9:21 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C BFO Leakage A few weeks back I wrote about PBT levels in SSB/AM modes. It would change S-Meter levels depending on adjustment of the PBT. I ruled out the 4NB board by removing it..no change. However when I removed the bottom cover almost 6 S-Units of PB feedthrough were reduced and performance was enhanced with less white noise. Interesting to know the interference is being conducted by the metal bottom cover to key area's of the bottom chassis. Next I will attempt adding metal shields to isolate internal RF from conducting to nearby by circuits that are prone. Best 73 Bill KB9IV ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C BFO Leakage
Check and make sure that all the shielding underneath for the 3rd mixer is intact. That circuit is very sensitive to stray signals and noise. You might also want to try a different 6EJ7 in there to see if it changes anything. 73, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended thereto. From: Bill Becky Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:20 PM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C BFO Leakage A few weeks back I wrote about PBT levels in SSB/AM modes. It would change S-Meter levels depending on adjustment of the PBT. I ruled out the 4NB board by removing it..no change. However when I removed the bottom cover almost 6 S-Units of PB feedthrough were reduced and performance was enhanced with less white noise. Interesting to know the interference is being conducted by the metal bottom cover to key area's of the bottom chassis. Next I will attempt adding metal shields to isolate internal RF from conducting to nearby by circuits that are prone. Best 73 Bill KB9IV ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Questions
Is the NB-4 Noise Blanker installed? If so remove the NB from the R4-C and install the jumper socket and see if the effect remains. Chances are the NB is the issue and will need to be realigned and the NB gain reset. JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Bill Becky Sent: Monday, 2 July 2012 12:24 PM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Questions Hi Group I recently obtained a Sherwood upgraded R4C (SN 22xxx), the only Sherwood upgrade it doesn't have is the 2K Upper Lower SSB filters. It performs very well but it has one oddity. When in SSB mode and the PBT is adjusted Upper Lower end of travel it varies the S-Meter from S6 middle center PBT to S1 either PBT endpoint. On CW using the 1.5Khz, 500Hz or 250Hz it works like it should or what I'm accustom to. I've corrected many small problems by treating grounds and filter sockets, tube sockets from the topsidebottom side next. It just seems like I'm getting allot of white noise or bleed through from somewhere to cause the SSB mode oddity. Question? How can it tell if this has the T7C version xfrmer?? These Sherwood upgrades were done 20+ yrs ago and this nice condition R4C has sat unused for many years. Perhaps all is typical as I don't have another to compare to. Best 73 Bill KB9IV ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift obsevation
Larry - That is interesting I've never experienced it, as my shack has always been air conditioned. The PTO coil is pretty well sealed, and I wouldn't expect it to be susceptible to humidity. The only other sources would be the BAND oscillator, crystal controlled with a lacquered transformer, the 3rd Mixer LO, also crystal controlled, and the BFO. The BFO is just an 'IF Can' style coil, and would be the most likely suspect. Would be interesting to see which of these oscillators is actually the one(s) moving.!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Larry Mccabe wrote: i've noticed some interesting drift characteristics on my r4c. i live in florida.. shack in the garage.. during the summer months , with 80-90 deg temps and high humidity, the r4c drifts approx 50 hz per hour. during the winter with 50-60 deg temps and reduced humidity the drift is reduced to 10 hz per hour . in both cases these measurements were observed after a lengthy warm-up period using a digital display counter. i have no internal fan or aux cooling in the radio. only significant change in the vacinity of the pto is the sherwood audio amp mod . temp and humidity obviously a significant factor in dealing with drift. i know this is no big revelation.. thought the differences were interesting though. Larry WA0QHF Sent from my iPhone ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift obsevation
i agree re BFO..any thoughts on how to confirm which one is the culprit? was thinking a heat source ..ie hair dryer ...or small light bulb,directed independently at each might reveal some interesting results.. Larry WA0QHF Sent from my iPhone On Jan 5, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com wrote: Larry - That is interesting I've never experienced it, as my shack has always been air conditioned. The PTO coil is pretty well sealed, and I wouldn't expect it to be susceptible to humidity. The only other sources would be the BAND oscillator, crystal controlled with a lacquered transformer, the 3rd Mixer LO, also crystal controlled, and the BFO. The BFO is just an 'IF Can' style coil, and would be the most likely suspect. Would be interesting to see which of these oscillators is actually the one(s) moving.!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Larry Mccabe wrote: i've noticed some interesting drift characteristics on my r4c. i live in florida.. shack in the garage.. during the summer months , with 80-90 deg temps and high humidity, the r4c drifts approx 50 hz per hour. during the winter with 50-60 deg temps and reduced humidity the drift is reduced to 10 hz per hour . in both cases these measurements were observed after a lengthy warm-up period using a digital display counter. i have no internal fan or aux cooling in the radio. only significant change in the vacinity of the pto is the sherwood audio amp mod . temp and humidity obviously a significant factor in dealing with drift. i know this is no big revelation.. thought the differences were interesting though. Larry WA0QHF Sent from my iPhone ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift obsevation
Larry - First, confirm that the counter is fully warmed up and stable, preferably with a TCXO or other better quality standard. The hair dryer or bulb heat source is undesirable for just that reason. We don't want a HEAT difference, just humidity with continuous temperature. Then, turn on the receiver, wait about 5 minutes, and then measure each oscillator frequency. Then wait another 30 minutes and measure each oscillator again. I'd then wait another 30 minutes and measure again. If you have the patience, do it once more!! Try and disturb the receiver as little as possible when going from soaking to measuring. Compare for delta and direction on each oscillator and report back! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Larry Mccabe wrote: i agree re BFO..any thoughts on how to confirm which one is the culprit? was thinking a heat source ..ie hair dryer ...or small light bulb,directed independently at each might reveal some interesting results.. Larry WA0QHF Sent from my iPhone On Jan 5, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Garey Barrellk4...@mindspring.com wrote: Larry - That is interesting I've never experienced it, as my shack has always been air conditioned. The PTO coil is pretty well sealed, and I wouldn't expect it to be susceptible to humidity. The only other sources would be the BAND oscillator, crystal controlled with a lacquered transformer, the 3rd Mixer LO, also crystal controlled, and the BFO. The BFO is just an 'IF Can' style coil, and would be the most likely suspect. Would be interesting to see which of these oscillators is actually the one(s) moving.!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Larry Mccabe wrote: i've noticed some interesting drift characteristics on my r4c. i live in florida.. shack in the garage.. during the summer months , with 80-90 deg temps and high humidity, the r4c drifts approx 50 hz per hour. during the winter with 50-60 deg temps and reduced humidity the drift is reduced to 10 hz per hour . in both cases these measurements were observed after a lengthy warm-up period using a digital display counter. i have no internal fan or aux cooling in the radio. only significant change in the vacinity of the pto is the sherwood audio amp mod . temp and humidity obviously a significant factor in dealing with drift. i know this is no big revelation.. thought the differences were interesting though. Larry WA0QHF Sent from my iPhone ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift obsevation
I once fed my R-4A (the 11 tube version) a premix signal from a stable modern signal source to see exactly that. I don't know which, but the BFO and/or the 5995 Kc LO was drifting at least couple of hundred Hz over the testing period. I personally do not care too much about the PTO drifting as long as it is usable after proper warm up. But carrier/LO/BFO going out of sync between T-4X and R-4A is inconvenient to say the least. I do have a color-matched pair, but they still tend to go separate ways even after hours of warm up. Even with this issue, I have no plan to upgrade to T-4XC/R-4C. hi. 73s, Kihwal, K9SUL - Original Message From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: Larry Mccabe lmccabe...@aol.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, January 5, 2012 1:59:37 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift obsevation Larry - That is interesting I've never experienced it, as my shack has always been air conditioned. The PTO coil is pretty well sealed, and I wouldn't expect it to be susceptible to humidity. The only other sources would be the BAND oscillator, crystal controlled with a lacquered transformer, the 3rd Mixer LO, also crystal controlled, and the BFO. The BFO is just an 'IF Can' style coil, and would be the most likely suspect. Would be interesting to see which of these oscillators is actually the one(s) moving.!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Larry Mccabe wrote: i've noticed some interesting drift characteristics on my r4c. i live in florida.. shack in the garage.. during the summer months , with 80-90 deg temps and high humidity, the r4c drifts approx 50 hz per hour. during the winter with 50-60 deg temps and reduced humidity the drift is reduced to 10 hz per hour . in both cases these measurements were observed after a lengthy warm-up period using a digital display counter. i have no internal fan or aux cooling in the radio. only significant change in the vacinity of the pto is the sherwood audio amp mod . temp and humidity obviously a significant factor in dealing with drift. i know this is no big revelation.. thought the differences were interesting though. Larry WA0QHF Sent from my iPhone ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift observation
Lee - Could be an issue specific to your rig. Either that or my set is an anomaly: I have no trouble being on-freq on SSB with my B's and I haven't touched C61 in several months. On CW, I still have trouble getting stations to hear me calling, and I'm starting to wonder if it's more than just my preference for a low beat-note. Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils. John Stark. All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended thereto. -- From: Kihwal Lee kih...@yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 4:17 PM To: k4...@mindspring.com; Larry Mccabe lmccabe...@aol.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift obsevation I once fed my R-4A (the 11 tube version) a premix signal from a stable modern signal source to see exactly that. I don't know which, but the BFO and/or the 5995 Kc LO was drifting at least couple of hundred Hz over the testing period. I personally do not care too much about the PTO drifting as long as it is usable after proper warm up. But carrier/LO/BFO going out of sync between T-4X and R-4A is inconvenient to say the least. I do have a color-matched pair, but they still tend to go separate ways even after hours of warm up. Even with this issue, I have no plan to upgrade to T-4XC/R-4C. hi. 73s, Kihwal, K9SUL - Original Message From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: Larry Mccabe lmccabe...@aol.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, January 5, 2012 1:59:37 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] r4c pto drift obsevation Larry - That is interesting I've never experienced it, as my shack has always been air conditioned. The PTO coil is pretty well sealed, and I wouldn't expect it to be susceptible to humidity. The only other sources would be the BAND oscillator, crystal controlled with a lacquered transformer, the 3rd Mixer LO, also crystal controlled, and the BFO. The BFO is just an 'IF Can' style coil, and would be the most likely suspect. Would be interesting to see which of these oscillators is actually the one(s) moving.!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Larry Mccabe wrote: i've noticed some interesting drift characteristics on my r4c. i live in florida.. shack in the garage.. during the summer months , with 80-90 deg temps and high humidity, the r4c drifts approx 50 hz per hour. during the winter with 50-60 deg temps and reduced humidity the drift is reduced to 10 hz per hour . in both cases these measurements were observed after a lengthy warm-up period using a digital display counter. i have no internal fan or aux cooling in the radio. only significant change in the vacinity of the pto is the sherwood audio amp mod . temp and humidity obviously a significant factor in dealing with drift. i know this is no big revelation.. thought the differences were interesting though. Larry WA0QHF Sent from my iPhone ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Yeah, but Klinger had more style... Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:04:07 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: Why invent the wheel...but as they say...go for it if it trips your trigger. By the time you buy all the parts...you won't save much. Maybe you missed the part about FUN! And the sense of accomplishment. Parts are cheap. Especially if you went to the Radar O'Rielly school of procurement. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:18:49 -0500, Steve Wedge wrote: Yeah, but Klinger had more style... Ah, but Klinger stopped wearing dresses when he became company clerk. 73 -Jim (not a cross-dresser, just a modder) -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
The thread for the Sherwood modifications started with Max asking which ones would be useful. In my reply email and others tried to answer the question for Max. Hope this effort was useful to him. I was surprised, however, to see such a staunch group that insists that the Drakes stay pristine. While I do not condone hackers and butchers (have one really sad case now on the bench from some person who cared little of what the radio was), I do believe there are mods that would enhance the use of the radio. For example, would anyone not recommend the grounding braid on a PTO that obviously has lost the ability to provide its own ground? Such a modification enhances the pleasure of the use of the radio. Not doing it keeps that radio generally useless. And so it is for the Sherwood Mods. When I did mine it was on a set that was already partially modified by Sherwood. It was at a point in time where I could not afford anything else than a used set of Drakes. It was my only radio. Modifications to the radio for my purposes made the enjoyment even deeper and it is the reason while 30 years later I still have them. So, while it is purist to state that the Drakes should stay pristine, we all know and accept that those modified with a true and correct intent to fix and enhance the operation was for me, and many, a choice that would have otherwise frustrated us to another hobby. The term different strokes for different folks... How we all use and love our Drake radios is unique. There simply is not a single right or wrong way; so it is with the modifications. Enjoyed the thread. David Assaf, III W5XU -Original Message- From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of kc9...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:22 PM To: w...@arrl.net; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Paul, Absolutely true...Rob Sherwoods design is top notch...and throwing a few parts you find around will NOT get you the same result. There's a lot more to it than those that have not really looked into it or have it would realize. I think for the design, quality of parts and the kind of parts needed Rob's prices are reasonable. The PS and Audio amp...well yes you could roll your own there...but better to just get the board s from him and install it yourself...IF you have the tools abilities. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: drakel...@.zerobeat.net drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sun, Jan 1, 2012 1:34 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty tight in places. Yes, a tight fit, put perfectly manageable. Keep in mind that the Teledyne relays used for the filter switch are designed for RF applications and hence, the high cost. The entire relay board assembly was designed to eliminate filter leakage and blow-by. Take a look at the Sherwood ultimate filter rejection spec and it's easily to see where the buyer's money is going. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4713 - Release Date: 12/30/11 ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Well IMHO, I think it's fine to MOD the R-4C as it has some problems (to me anyways) and a stock one while OK...is not that great compared to a good R-4B. When I had the stock R-4C...I liked it but I didn't seem to use it that much...went to the B line I had at the time. After I got the Sherwood R-4C and added one more Sherwood MOD that wasn't already on (The 2.4 KC front end filter set) I really loved the performace and have used it a bunch. One big thing...getting all that heat out of there...this think is ROCK solid after a couple minutes. I usually don't use the roofing filters unless it is weak DX near strong sigs OR a contest week end...but it's nice to have them when needed. Look at rob Sherwood's RXCVR chartyou will see the stock R-4C way down the list...the Sherwood one is still pretty high up there...considering the company it is keeping. Now I am looking for a pristine R-4A...just for nice rag chew smooth audio qso's. And everything is in therealready..or maybe a R-4B if I can't find the A. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: David w...@cox.net To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:12 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods The thread for the Sherwood modifications started with Max asking which ones would be useful. In my reply email and others tried to answer the question for Max. Hope this effort was useful to him. I was surprised, however, to see such a staunch group that insists that the Drakes stay pristine. While I do not condone hackers and butchers (have one really sad case now on the bench from some person who cared little of what the radio was), I do believe there are mods that would enhance the use of the radio. For example, would anyone not recommend the grounding braid on a PTO that obviously has lost the ability to provide its own ground? Such a modification enhances the pleasure of the use of the radio. Not doing it keeps that radio generally useless. And so it is for the Sherwood Mods. When I did mine it was on a set that was already partially modified by Sherwood. It was at a point in time where I could not afford anything else than a used set of Drakes. It was my only radio. Modifications to the radio for my purposes made the enjoyment even deeper and it is the reason while 30 years later I still have them. So, while it is purist to state that the Drakes should stay pristine, we all know and accept that those modified with a true and correct intent to fix and enhance the operation was for me, and many, a choice that would have otherwise frustrated us to another hobby. The term different strokes for different folks... How we all use and love our Drake radios is unique. There simply is not a single right or wrong way; so it is with the modifications. Enjoyed the thread. David Assaf, III W5XU -Original Message- From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of kc9...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:22 PM To: w...@arrl.net; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Paul, Absolutely true...Rob Sherwoods design is top notch...and throwing a few parts you find around will NOT get you the same result. There's a lot more to it than those that have not really looked into it or have it would realize. I think for the design, quality of parts and the kind of parts needed Rob's prices are reasonable. The PS and Audio amp...well yes you could roll your own there...but better to just get the board s from him and install it yourself...IF you have the tools abilities. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: drakel...@.zerobeat.net drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sun, Jan 1, 2012 1:34 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty tight in places. Yes, a tight fit, put perfectly manageable. Keep in mind that the Teledyne relays used for the filter switch are designed for RF applications and hence, the high cost. The entire relay board assembly was designed to eliminate filter leakage and blow-by. Take a look at the Sherwood ultimate filter rejection spec and it's easily to see where the buyer's money is going. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4713 - Release Date: 12/30/11 ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
David, I think you will find that in any group. One group will ONLY stay stock, even going so far as to gut and re-stuff paper caps with new poly caps, remelting beeswax back in the ends! The other group to the other side will make it a whole new radio (look at the reworked TR7 on WB4HFN's site for an example of that!! The braid mod you mentioned was a Drake factory fix to a problem found. There are many such things Drake put out to fix known engineering oversights. They remained in business for MANY years past the sales of the first rigs, and found need to do that for most of the line. That's just not the same thing as the full Monte Sherwood job. What most of us said to the original question was that it was up to how he intended to use the rig and what he expected to get out of it when he was finished with it. If using it from now on, do what you want. If fixing it to use and sell in a few months, you won't get close to your investment back. Most threads get hijacked and twisted, that's one of the problems with lists. In the end, each man (or woman's) gear is theirs, and they should do what they wish with it. If you ask, you should be ready to get ALL views, not just the ones you wanted to get, hi. 73, and enjoy those Drakes, or Frankendrakes, both, Don, WB5HAK ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Thank you both for the comments and the affirmation. Yes, it is indeed the Owner of the radio that determines the best for him and for his needs. I marvel at the asking price for the Sherwood R4c radios. I do not know if they get the for that cost, but for me at my time, what money I put into my radios enhanced my dedication to them, not destroyed it. I was aware of the braid issue, yet many would say if it did not have it from the factory that it was wrong to fix a broken radio!. Thanks for your gentle reply. As I age I see the huge variety of answers to such a simple question that Max proposed. David Assaf, III W5XU -Original Message- From: Don Cunningham [mailto:d...@martineer.net] Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:28 PM To: David; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods David, I think you will find that in any group. One group will ONLY stay stock, even going so far as to gut and re-stuff paper caps with new poly caps, remelting beeswax back in the ends! The other group to the other side will make it a whole new radio (look at the reworked TR7 on WB4HFN's site for an example of that!! The braid mod you mentioned was a Drake factory fix to a problem found. There are many such things Drake put out to fix known engineering oversights. They remained in business for MANY years past the sales of the first rigs, and found need to do that for most of the line. That's just not the same thing as the full Monte Sherwood job. What most of us said to the original question was that it was up to how he intended to use the rig and what he expected to get out of it when he was finished with it. If using it from now on, do what you want. If fixing it to use and sell in a few months, you won't get close to your investment back. Most threads get hijacked and twisted, that's one of the problems with lists. In the end, each man (or woman's) gear is theirs, and they should do what they wish with it. If you ask, you should be ready to get ALL views, not just the ones you wanted to get, hi. 73, and enjoy those Drakes, or Frankendrakes, both, Don, WB5HAK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4719 - Release Date: 01/02/12 ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 19:28:29 -0600, Don Cunningham wrote: The braid mod you mentioned was a Drake factory fix to a problem found. There are many such things Drake put out to fix known engineering oversights. That brings up the point that even factory mods can be poor engineering. Case in point, the Drake-published all-band transmit mod for the TR-7 that disables the PLL out-of-lock signal. I can see Drake wanting a quick and simple mod for screwdriver jockeys in the field, but it's just plain bad, and there is a better way. And speaking of bad mods, DrakeMod6 needs to be corrected to remove the advice to reverse the direction FA-7! I proved that this was a bad mod two years ago, but it's still out there and people still believe it. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 12:09:15 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty tight in places. I guess we need to define which mods we are talking about. The filters are a subset of the entire Sherwood legend. Personally, I'm not particularly interested in dancing roofing filters, but if I was I probably could scrounge the necessary relays and such over time. The filters themselves, yes, they are pricey. The audio amp, power supply, product detector, etc., parts are cheap. I've got most of what I need for a lot of that, and probably didn't spend over $30. It's easier for me to buy a little somethign here and there than it is to plop down a lump sum all at once. Not that I am at all opposed to Mr. Sherwood making a buck or two doing something that he enjoys. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty tight in places. Yes, a tight fit, put perfectly manageable. Keep in mind that the Teledyne relays used for the filter switch are designed for RF applications and hence, the high cost. The entire relay board assembly was designed to eliminate filter leakage and blow-by. Take a look at the Sherwood ultimate filter rejection spec and it's easily to see where the buyer's money is going. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those boathanchors is use it as it is. If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, John Brown wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C's this way and wouldn't hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB FROM: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] ON BEHALF OF AirRadio SENT: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM TO: drakelist@zerobeat.net SUBJECT: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
I have investigated the Sherwood Mods somewhat, but I found, like Steve mentioned, a lot of it is directed toward building a better contest radio. The mods really go after the close in IMD spec in CW. Other than a little better audio, it seems that UNLESS you truly want a contest rig, it may not do what you expect. I find it mildly amusing that so many Drake fans, who are pretty openly against just about any non-Drake modification, will embrace the Sherwood treatment. Remember, it is no longer an R4c when you are doneit is a Sherwood/Drake R4c. FWIW, Curt KU8L On 12/30/2011 8:06 PM, John Brown wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C's this way and wouldn't hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB *From:*drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] *On Behalf Of *AirRadio *Sent:* Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM *To:* drakelist@zerobeat.net *Subject:* [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Adrian - You're not alone!! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Adrian wrote: A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those boathanchors is use it as it is. If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, John Brown brown...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C’s this way and wouldn’t hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB *From:*drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] *On Behalf Of *AirRadio *Sent:* Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM *To:* drakelist@zerobeat.net *Subject:* [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Gary - Amen! Happy New Year!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Gary Poland wrote: Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
I'll third it. If I want something to act like a new whizbang radio, why not get a new whizbang radio? The joy of an old piece of gear is it being an old piece of gear that still works well. I suppose the ultimate update would be to remove everything in the cabinet of a R4C and install inside an Elecraft K3.. Would it still be a Drake? I don't think so, but others might. We own the radios, so we're free to do as we wish, but remember, it's only original once. John K5MO At 09:43 AM 12/31/2011, Gary Poland wrote: Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I canât help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to â upgrade â their R-4Câs have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
The R-4C (stock) is hardly a true vacuum tube radio...very much a hybrid. Even the R-4B has quite a few transisters. Early R-4a...= tube RX...and I'm looking to get one of those some day (Dayton??) 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Adrian svi...@blably.com To: John Brown brown...@optusnet.com.au Cc: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:50 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those boathanchors is use it as it is. If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, John Brown brown...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C’s this way and wouldn’t hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of AirRadio Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
To Mod or not to Mod has been an interesting theme to close out the old year, that is for sure. Happy Old Year to all, and may the new year bring excellent propagation, low noise, and resonance on all antennas and remember, to tune is to exist. Kris KM2KM___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
The audio amp in the stock R-4C is already solid state. The Sherwood mod for the audio amp does make it sound better and removes the big heat source right below the PTO. That is the only Sherwood mod I made, but I'm considering the power supply mod. I also installed the Hayseed Hamfest cap cans. 73, Bob WW3QB The R-4C (stock) is hardly a true vacuum tube radio...very much a hybrid. Even the R-4B has quite a few transisters. Early R-4a...= tube RX...and I'm looking to get one of those some day (Dayton??) 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Adrian svi...@blably.com To: John Brown brown...@optusnet.com.au Cc: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:50 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those boathanchors is use it as it is. If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, John Brown brown...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C’s this way and wouldn’t hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of AirRadio Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:35:11 +0100, Adrian wrote: So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. I hate to tell you this, Adrian, but your Drake already has solid state things inside. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4c sherwood moods
Hi Darryl: I like that approach. No question that the mods make the C a better radio. As long as a person understands what the final product is going to be, then go for it. The performance margin that the Sherwood mods offered over comparably priced SS rigs of the day is no longer valid. Whatever the bench work indicates, there is NO performance comparison, all around, to a modern $1200 radio. (Of course, anything I can hear on the 746pro or TS2000, or whatever, I surely can hear also on the R4a---but that is NOT what the mods were all about) I am one that will indeed make minor mods to help in small ways..especially heat related, for durability or availability of parts. ( The AC-4 mods as example) Mine are not museum pieces, but user rigs like Gary mentions and are mostly stock. A line, B line, TR-3,4,7. They are what they are and a pleasure to use as is. Curt KU8L On 12/31/2011 11:32 AM, dle9480...@aol.com wrote: Well I will say it just like my two 56 chevys one bone stock plane 235 inline six with three on the tree to my Loving hot rod with a 383 stroker and nitros injection. the best of both worlds. as to Drake I have a plane Jane B line , a plane Jane C line and a hot rod fully moded R4C (over$1800 in mods and filters) and love to play with em both. You can have your cake and eat it too. Just my 2 cents 73s Darryl WA5TOO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4c sherwood moods
Curt, Well, certainly a vaild staement in general..BUT. The r-4c Sherwood is still quieter than my 746 PRO was and my TT Orion II is. Still kind of like the analog dial too...very fast to move or very slow...all without any buttin pushing. Every now then...I will ONLY use my C line and L-4B for a whole week end...Not even turn on the TT OII and Alpha amp... well..it's fun and it is VERY effective stilll today. All great radios today. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Curt Nixon cptc...@flash.net To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4c sherwood moods Hi Darryl: I like that approach. No question that the mods make the C a better radio. As long as a person understands what the final product is going to be, then go for it. The performance margin that the Sherwood mods offered over comparably priced SS rigs of the day is no longer valid. Whatever the bench work indicates, there is NO performance comparison, all around, to a modern $1200 radio. (Of course, anything I can hear on the 746pro or TS2000, or whatever, I surely can hear also on the R4a---but that is NOT what the mods were all about) I am one that will indeed make minor mods to help in small ways..especially heat related, for durability or availability of parts. ( The AC-4 mods as example) Mine are not museum pieces, but user rigs like Gary mentions and are mostly stock. A line, B line, TR-3,4,7. They are what they are and a pleasure to use as is. Curt KU8L On 12/31/2011 11:32 AM, dle9480...@aol.com wrote: Well I will say it just like my two 56 chevys one bone stock plane 235 inline six with three on the tree to my Loving hot rod with a 383 stroker and nitros injection. the best of both worlds. as to Drake I have a plane Jane B line , a plane Jane C line and a hot rod fully moded R4C (over$1800 in mods and filters) and love to play with em both. You can have your cake and eat it too. Just my 2 cents 73s Darryl WA5TOO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:43:18 -0500, Gary Poland wrote: Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion I can see your point, and I generally stay away from feature-ism mods, but I'm not opposed to technically sound mods that address design deficiencies. Arguably that audio output stage and low voltage power supply were not state-of-the-art when the radio was manufactured, nor was the product detector and that mixer stage that picks up noise on AM, but we can assume that Drake was designing to a price point. Sherwood mods are only expensive when purchased from Sherwood, it's easy enough to roll your own for most of them if you have the skills. I don't care for most of the modern radios out there at all, and can't justify the expense - especially when I can spend a sawbuck or two now and then on some parts and make what I have the equal of anything that's out there in performance or listenablility. Just my opinons. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4c sherwood moods
Every now then...I will ONLY use my C line and L-4B for a whole week end... Lee, That's a great idea since it gives you the opportunity to re-visit the older technology and compare notes against recent designs. I have no issues with well-designed and implemented mods that serve an overarching purpose. The Sherwood mods accomplish that. Moreover, I keep respect alive by ensuring that cosmetically, they are as perfect as possible. I have to thank the many folks who have provided those resources. At one time or another, they've been the recipient of my business. Both my R-4C and R-4B are heavily modified. The R-4B may not even be recognizable under the chassis to most folks here. But I started with a purpose and designed for it. The changes meet my operating goals and were not meant to appeal to all Drake users. Folks who have used a Sherwood-modified Drake have every right to express their opinion -- but seemingly, several users have not tried the mods and have based their opinion on perception and not reality. Another a group of users seem to resent that some owners have attained the aptitude to either install and/or design their own mods. This attitude seems even stronger among Collins owners. Now, that's *my* perception and may not be reality! Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Personally I would never consider modifying my Drakes. They work great as is. When I want 2011 technology, I use one of my modern rigs. When I turn on my Drakes, I want to experience a Drake rig, and not some cobbled up one. I no longer would consider buying any Drake rig with modifications. I've done that a few times and regretted it each and every time. (Too much working taking them out). I look at modifying a Drake rig like taking a Stanley Steamer, removing it's boiler and installing a Corvette engine in it. Doing this makes absolutely no sense to me at all. To me, if you don't like the radio as is, why not build your own design. One of my other interests are Tropical Fish. I am almost out of that hobby as today sellers are injecting dye to color living fish and breeding sports which never existed in nature. I guess there are different strokes for different people. I just look at modifying a Drake rig as showing no appreciation of years gone bye technology. If someone wants to improve something, go out and buy a new 2012 rig and modify/destroy it. Lee, w0vt ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:55:06 -0500 (EST), L L bahr wrote: I look at modifying a Drake rig like taking a Stanley Steamer, removing it's boiler and installing a Corvette engine in it. Maybe you wouldn't put a 'vette engine in it, but I'd bet a dollar that you would set a stadium cushion on the seat to soften your ride a bit ;) I just look at modifying a Drake rig as showing no appreciation of years gone bye technology. If someone wants to improve something, go out and buy a new 2012 rig and modify/destroy it. And I can still remember when is wasn't uncommon for hams to spend hours tuning, tweaking, and yes, making modifications to their gear (whether homebrew or store-bought) so they could put the best possible signal on the air. This is just an extension of that, and arguably part of the basis and purpose of Amateur Radio. And besides that, it's FUN! Aside from that, which one of us hasn't replaced a 2-wire power cord with 3-wire, or (to stray off-topic a bit) opearated an AC/DC set through an isolation transformer? Those are mods, too. If Bob Drake modded his C-Line, would it still be a Drake...? 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Jim, Huh? I don't see any of the MODS I have on my Sherwood R-4C as roll your own...I guess if you can design and build printed circuit boards and get all the parts including those neat front end filters you could. Another way to get a Sherwood r-4C is get one from someone selling thiers. They do sell the kits so you can install them yourself..(Maybe a couple at a time) I did a couple...I am a pretty good technitian and it was not all that easy to do...it's pretty tight in most of the RX. Anyways...Glad I already have it...just today I used the C line including the L-4B, and had a great timejust nice quiet and signals just pop out when you get to them. I have the 2.4 KC frony end roofing filters and it's cool to have weal signals nearby that do not de-sense the weak ones. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:43:18 -0500, Gary Poland wrote: Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion I can see your point, and I generally stay away from feature-ism mods, but I'm not opposed to technically sound mods that address design deficiencies. Arguably that audio output stage and low voltage power supply were not state-of-the-art when the radio was manufactured, nor was the product detector and that mixer stage that picks up noise on AM, but we can assume that Drake was designing to a price point. Sherwood mods are only expensive when purchased from Sherwood, it's easy enough to roll your own for most of them if you have the skills. I don't care for most of the modern radios out there at all, and can't justify the expense - especially when I can spend a sawbuck or two now and then on some parts and make what I have the equal of anything that's out there in performance or listenablility. Just my opinons. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 20:32:14 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: I don't see any of the MODS I have on my Sherwood R-4C as roll your own...I guess if you can design and build printed circuit boards and get all the parts including those neat front end filters you could. Sure, why not? That's what building stuff is all about! You could even make your own crystal filters if you wanted to get that deep. Most of the Sherwood stuff is pretty well documented. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
One needs to look at these changes for what they are, in the context of their original use when they were introduced over 30 years ago. Back then, these mods did make a fairly-new radio perform much better. I can also remember ads in QST for solid-state tube replacements. I never saw any tests done on those. Back around 1980, these mods were ways to get more performance out of contemporary or recently contemporary rigs. There are folks who love them with these mods and others who hate 'em. A chacque son gout. For me and lots of others, we like the Drakes for what they represent from their now-historical period and will minimize the mods. Myself, I have an Elecraft K3 for doing contesting and heavy-duty DX'ing. It's a fantastic rig. I used to have a Model A Ford, as well as my modern car that I commuted to work with. While it was fun to take the A out on weekends and occasionally to work to show it off, it really was a lousy commuter car compared to the Saab that I was driving at the time. But the A was still enjoyable. That's the way I look at my Drake gear. BTW, stock Drake gear is usually much more useable on the current bands than 90% of the other rigs that were contemporary to any of the Drake line. My $0.02 Enjoy Those Drakes, but leave the DSP in your K3... Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: Gary Poland To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Jim, Of course anything can be done...it takes MANY, MANY hours just to install all of Sherwoods mods even if you get the kits from him. Then there is a modified alignment procedure too. (according to Rob, I have not had to do one since he did mine) Why invent the wheel...but as they say...go for it if it trips your trigger. By the time you buy all the parts...you won't save much. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:55 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 20:32:14 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: I don't see any of the MODS I have on my Sherwood R-4C as roll your own...I guess if you can design and build printed circuit boards and get all the parts including those neat front end filters you could. Sure, why not? That's what building stuff is all about! You could even make your own crystal filters if you wanted to get that deep. Most of the Sherwood stuff is pretty well documented. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Steve, Have you ever had/used extensively a properly done Sherwood R-4C? I have a TT Orion II right beside it.that's a pretty good comparison machine, as would the K3... I had the Sherwood before the O II...now I really don't need the Sherwood, but I love it and it's staying. Sometimes I want to run Drake and I want the performace of the Sherwood R-4C. My 2 cents is if you are into running Drake AND want the top performace it's worth the Mods. If you do the Drake for ragchew like the easy/great audio,, forget it and get a R-4A or B...better audio and very smooth. One nice thing about the Sherwood modded RX, leave the Front end filter switch at center and the regular front end isstill used...or go to 2,4 or 600 front end roofing filters as needed with heavy QRM. You don't really need anything but a Icom 718...but all this is fun. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Steve Wedge w1es1...@earthlink.net To: Gary Poland gpola...@cinci.rr.com; drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:03 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods One needs to look at these changes for what they are, in the context of their original use when they were introduced over 30 years ago. Back then, these mods did make a fairly-new radio perform much better. I can also remember ads in QST for solid-state tube replacements. I never saw any tests done on those. Back around 1980, these mods were ways to get more performance out of contemporary or recently contemporary rigs. There are folks who love them with these mods and others who hate 'em. A chacque son gout. For me and lots of others, we like the Drakes for what they represent from their now-historical period and will minimize the mods. Myself, I have an Elecraft K3 for doing contesting and heavy-duty DX'ing. It's a fantastic rig. I used to have a Model A Ford, as well as my modern car that I commuted to work with. While it was fun to take the A out on weekends and occasionally to work to show it off, it really was a lousy commuter car compared to the Saab that I was driving at the time. But the A was still enjoyable. That's the way I look at my Drake gear. BTW, stock Drake gear is usually much more useable on the current bands than 90% of the other rigs that were contemporary to any of the Drake line. My $0.02 Enjoy Those Drakes, but leave the DSP in your K3... Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: Gary Poland To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Sartori Associates also made the kits available. The earliest ads I have for the Sherwood / Sartori kits is 1982. Most of the articles for R-4C improvement show up in 1979 issues of Ham Radio and 73. Fox Tango also made switchable 1st IF filters kits available they called GUF-1 and GUF-2. For a while in the late 90’s a fellow by the name of David McCauley I believe and sold upgrade kits as well through his online Drake Shop store. The boards were good quality and priced very reasonable. I don’t think he is in business any longer though. So you are quite correct Steve, the current improvements for the R-4C were dreamed up 30 years ago and by various individuals. 73, Gary___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:04:07 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: Why invent the wheel...but as they say...go for it if it trips your trigger. By the time you buy all the parts...you won't save much. Maybe you missed the part about FUN! And the sense of accomplishment. Parts are cheap. Especially if you went to the Radar O'Rielly school of procurement. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Max. YES, go for it! I have the Full Sherwood mods on a very late R-4C and it is top notch. I have ALL mods except the one for the FS4. I have done extensive A/B test against my Ten-Tec Orion II and...it will hear every bit as well in most conditions (SSB) And on CW excellant as well (The OII of couse does have the DSP) Rob's guy did the MODS on mine and the work is 10+... I use it all the time... Yes...it's going to cost you, but if it's a keeper...just do it. If you wanted a regular R-4 any...then I go with the R-4B for casual operating. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: AirRadio airra...@dsl.pipex.com To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2011 4:30 pm Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
You may wish to consider the following: Solid state mixer mod: The 6EQ7 (I believe) is notoriously prone to microphonics and earlier I had purchased several spare tubes just for this reason. They were hard to get then. They did not last long, so this mod essentially solved the problem and resulted in a much quieter unit. Solid state product detector: The original product detector was a simple and poor design originating to the R blank line; this fixes the unit and makes the detection more robust and less prone to producing noise. Solid state power supply and capacitor kit (actually 2 kits here): many of the mods need a clean and regulated source of DC power. This mod replaces the original capacitors (probably in need of that any way) and PROVIDES A NEW POWER SUPPLY for the radio. Even up to the C line, when Drake needed a voltage less than 250 VDC, they inserted a (generally) big resistor in the line. This was true for the few solid state devices that were in the radio to start with. This cleans it up by providing a clean and regulated source of DC power and allows the radio to run at less DC current on the power supply. Less current, less heat and less wear on the power transformer. The best thing you can do for the radio and the modification that wakes up an otherwise lethargic radio is the 600 Cy roofing filter in the first IF. This is the first application (that I know of) of the roofing filter concept for improved CW operation. It is an amazing modification and turns an ok radio into a sprinter. By measurement, the modified R4C has a 2 KC dynamic range of in the 80 dB range. Up until 15 years ago this was a measurement not worth doing as no radio could perform in that regard. You simply accepted what the manufacturer, any, gave you . It took an otherwise good radio and made it a champ. As I work DX only, it made working a pile up or a contest a pleasure instead of a chore. It is truly amazing and essentially is what put Sherwood on the radio map. Incidentally, it was Bob's poor showing using a pair of new R4Cs on the ARRL 160M CW contest that gave birth to the first roofing filter. Since the intro of this mod, the other manufacturers have copied it and offer it in their new designs. It all began here with the R4C mod that Bob Sherwood did in the 60's. The articles in Ham Radio where they were first published are considered classics. If you do but one of the modifications, do this one. Lastly, the audio amplifier tube and circuit can be replaced with a solid state unit. It provides cleaner audio and reduces the heat and current draw even further. The radio I have has some of the home brew items of those articles as well as the modules purchased from Sherwood. I would recommend going the purchase route as all of the chore of mounting and part placement is already worked out in the radio for you. Good luck on your adventure. You will not be sorry. There are other mods that I have considered but not done that would incrementally improve the radio, but do not have them. There are also some simple mods for the T4X as well and I have used some of these as well. There are some that say that such modifications are heresy and should not be done to keep the stable pure and true. I do believe it is because of these mods that Drake is still alive in the contesting field. I would rather take the pleasure of using a modified radio than have a pristine original that I would never use. What you will end up with is a vastly improved radio, beyond what Drake could have imagined. It holds its on with any other radio I have ever used, Yaesu 1000, Orion, Omni 6+ (with the IRC roofing filter), Kenwood. You get the added smell and history and that full bodied sound that only the tube radios have. Keep in touch and go for it! I envy you for the great adventure you are about to embark on! David Assaf, III W5XU From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Steve Wedge Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:49 PM To: AirRadio; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Hi, Max - I'd go for the mods that improve on the solid-state circuits. Because of the period when these radios were made, many of the early solid-state circuits that were used in the C's have had significant improvements - particularly the audio chain. I owned a couple of C-Line sets (one early and one late) and both had the Sherwood audio amps - which I consider to be worthwhile. There was another mod that may not have been Sherwood that involved the third mixer and placing an RF choke there (IIRC, it was in the cathode circuit, but we're dealing with a 25-year-old memory here...) - it applied only to the late-production and got rid of much of the hiss in the audio. Bear in mind that a lot of those mods turned the C-Line into contest-ready radios, which - if you're only operating casually
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C's this way and wouldn't hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of AirRadio Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C PTO Brass Gears replacement
Rich, Based on my experience...clean those gears with soap water use a stiff brush to be sure NO old gread, dirt etc is in the very bottem of the teeth. Maybe you have already done this...if so maybe there is still oil in the plastic? 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Rich Hallman - N7TR r...@n7tr.com To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:54 am Subject: [Drakelist] R4C PTO Brass Gears replacement Ive had my R4C PTO rebuilt about 8 months ago and the PTO tuning felt great. Before the rebuild it would stick and would have different tightness as I tuned. I hadn't used the rig for a few months and turned it on last night and I have the same issue again. Wanted to know if anyone changed out the nylon gears for the brass set? I think the nylon gears keep swelling on me. And yes, the oil was removed during the first rebuild. Also...does anyone have a set of brass gears or an old broke PTO with a set of brass gears on it that they would like to sell. Thanks... Rich Rich N7TR ex KI3V, N3AMK, WB3JOV www.n7tr.com Telnet: dxc.n7tr.com N7TR DXCluster ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C PTO Brass Gears replacement
Hi Rich, I agree with you that the metalNylon assemblies seem to have a smoother feeling with less sloppiness. I don't know if the all-Nylon gears degrade over time or if they came that way from Drake. I changed a set to metal/Nylon gears back last spring. I was first going to attempt a change of gears, but I decided to simply swap out entire PTO assemblies from a late C line that was in less than average cosmetic condition. That's a very easy job. Just a few wires are unsoldered, three screws removed, and the whole PTO assembly with dials comes out. No calibration, no worry about gears meshing and tracking properly, etc. After changing out one assembly and learning from it, another can be done in just a couple minutes. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: Rich Hallman - N7TR r...@n7tr.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:53 AM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C PTO Brass Gears replacement Ive had my R4C PTO rebuilt about 8 months ago and the PTO tuning felt great. Before the rebuild it would stick and would have different tightness as I tuned. I hadn't used the rig for a few months and turned it on last night and I have the same issue again. Wanted to know if anyone changed out the nylon gears for the brass set? I think the nylon gears keep swelling on me. And yes, the oil was removed during the first rebuild. Also...does anyone have a set of brass gears or an old broke PTO with a set of brass gears on it that they would like to sell. Thanks... Rich Rich N7TR ex KI3V, N3AMK, WB3JOV www.n7tr.com Telnet: dxc.n7tr.com N7TR DXCluster ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C PTO Brass Gears replacement
Just my opinion, but I think the metal gears are way over valued. I still think they were a cost cutting measure when they ran out of nylon gears near the end of the production cycle. Nylon gears themselves are inexpensive, but the tooling to manufacture them is quite expensive. If the tooling 'wears out or is lost or broken, metal gears from stock look a lot more attractive. The metal gears have a 'grainy' feeling to me, while the nylon ones are smooth as glass. When the nylon gears are 'soaked' in oil, it sometimes becomes necessary to re-do the 'Smooth as Glass' process on 'hfn after they have swollen a bit more. Opinions are like ... well, you know. -- 73, Garey - K4OAH St Charles, IL Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com kc9...@aol.com wrote: Rich, Based on my experience...clean those gears with soap water use a stiff brush to be sure NO old gread, dirt etc is in the very bottem of the teeth. Maybe you have already done this...if so maybe there is still oil in the plastic? 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Rich Hallman - N7TR r...@n7tr.com To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:54 am Subject: [Drakelist] R4C PTO Brass Gears replacement Ive had my R4C PTO rebuilt about 8 months ago and the PTO tuning felt great. Before the rebuild it would stick and would have different tightness as I tuned. I hadn't used the rig for a few months and turned it on last night and I have the same issue again. Wanted to know if anyone changed out the nylon gears for the brass set? I think the nylon gears keep swelling on me. And yes, the oil was removed during the first rebuild. Also...does anyone have a set of brass gears or an old broke PTO with a set of brass gears on it that they would like to sell. ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C deaf and TR7 questions AGC, tx all band mod
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:41:03 -0400, ian parkinson wrote: I saw a Mod for the TR 7 which involves cutting some pcb tracks for all band tx option..it certainly would be great to operate on the 30 metre WARC band. Any thoughts over this mod is it too risky ?? The only real risk, per se, is that you may accidentally transmit somewhere that you shouldn't and the communications authorities will notice. However There is a right way and a wrong way to do this mod. Surprisingly, the published method from Drake is the wrong way to do it. It does give you all band allband transmit as described, but the method for doing so has the side effect of disabling the out-of-lock (OOL) transmit inhibit signal from the PLL. This could allow you to accidentally transmit out of band if the PLL happens to unlock for some reason, and also prevents G4ALG's mod to eliminate the TX spike when power is turned on from working. I have published a method that preserves the OOL signal and involves two trace cuts on the old version Digital Control board. I haven't worked it out for the newer version board yet, not having one at my disposal, and there seeming to be no interest. Most people seem to go with the bad method, despite explanations as to why it is not a good idea 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C
Terry - The manufacturer is 'Heath Dynamics' no relation to Heathkit. They were one of several companies to make filters for the R-4C. A couple of the others were Piezo Technology and Network Sciences, plus the latest receivers had a Japanese made filter. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Terry Wilkin wrote: I am looking into the filters on my R4C. I have 2 Heath Dynamics filters mounted in the radio. Can anyone tell me the history of these filters and the original use? Thanks Terry ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C unstable VFO
I bought a TR-4CW/RIT off ebay and it would jump in frequency even when just listening. I found that one of those dumbell ceramic capacitors inside the PTO had a very small crack in it. I replaced the cap and all is well. 73, Joe Pyles KC9LAD. At 05:19 PM 8/19/2010, you wrote: Hi People, I've got an R4C that is jumping frequency by +- 1 Khz, then slowly returns to the correct frequency only to repeat again, and again. I have installed the ground strap mod, and exchanged several tubes, cleaned the switching, and checked all the RCA jacks on the rear panel. At this time I don't know where else to go. Has anyone had/ corrected this problem? Any help, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Tom ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C unstable VFO
Sorry. Zener diode in the vfo Sent from my iPhone David Assaf, III On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:28 PM, David Assaf w...@cox.net wrote: Change the 3zener diade in the CFO Sent from my iPhone David Assaf, III On Aug 19, 2010, at 4:19 PM, pony...@aol.com wrote: Hi People, I've got an R4C that is jumping frequency by +- 1 Khz, then slowly returns to the correct frequency only to repeat again, and again. I have installed the ground strap mod, and exchanged several tubes, cleaned the switching, and checked all the RCA jacks on the rear panel. At this time I don't know where else to go. Has anyone had/ corrected this problem? Any help, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Tom ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C unstable VFO
Hi People, I've got an R4C that is jumping frequency by +- 1 Khz, then slowly returns to the correct frequency only to repeat again, and again. I have installed the ground strap mod, and exchanged several tubes, cleaned the switching, and checked all the RCA jacks on the rear panel. At this time I don't know where else to go. Has anyone had/ corrected this problem? Any help, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Tom ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C static after Sherwood 3d mixer mod
I had this problem when a crystal filter on the back was not making a good connection with one of the pins. Wiggle each filter. The static crashes would occur out of nowhere and last a few seconds. Took me weeks to find it. 73, Bob WW3QB --- On Sat, 7/31/10, K4GM- George k...@verizon.net wrote: From: K4GM- George k...@verizon.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C static after Sherwood 3d mixer mod To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Date: Saturday, July 31, 2010, 8:06 AM I have obtained an R4C with many of the Sherwood mods installed including the solid state 3d mixer which is supposed to eliminate the dreaded frying crackle. Unfortunately occasionally I hear a bit of static sounding to me like what a brief solar flare might sound. It is not really a hiss but more like a strong static crash. It is definitely not simply QRN! It is infrequent and I can still copy over it. Before I open it up and start reviewing the wiring on the mixer mod, has anyone else had experience with this type of problem? Is there a known culprit such as one of the tubes going bad?? Any and all suggestions appreciated. George K4GM ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C static after Sherwood 3d mixer mod
Bob, Thanks for that tip for the R4C. I think I'll just DeOxit mine while it is on the bench being re-capped!!! Isn't this list the greatest?? 73, Don, WB5HAK ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C static after Sherwood 3d mixer mod
Same thing on the filter selector switch. Not using the radio will usually have a switch issue. A bit od deoxit will resolve thAt issue. Good luck. The third mixer did adequately address the third mixer prob. Drake had 3 or 4 designs and Sherwood. Solved it all. A clean and functioning Sherwood receiver is a wonder. Still use mine Sent from my iPhone David Assaf, III On Jul 31, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Robert Ladden rmlad...@yahoo.com wrote: I had this problem when a crystal filter on the back was not making a good connection with one of the pins. Wiggle each filter. The static crashes would occur out of nowhere and last a few seconds. Took me weeks to find it. 73, Bob WW3QB --- On Sat, 7/31/10, K4GM- George k...@verizon.net wrote: From: K4GM- George k...@verizon.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C static after Sherwood 3d mixer mod To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Date: Saturday, July 31, 2010, 8:06 AM I have obtained an R4C with many of the Sherwood mods installed including the solid state 3d mixer which is supposed to eliminate the dreaded frying crackle. Unfortunately occasionally I hear a bit of static sounding to me like what a brief solar flare might sound. It is not really a hiss but more like a strong static crash. It is definitely not simply QRN! It is infrequent and I can still copy over it. Before I open it up and start reviewing the wiring on the mixer mod, has anyone else had experience with this type of problem? Is there a known culprit such as one of the tubes going bad?? Any and all suggestions appreciated. George K4GM ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C - Crack Bank
Try a new tube in V4. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Chuck Pool wrote: Hello to all. Today there was a very loud Bank and Crack from the speaker. There is lots of scratching noises now coming from the speaker. The S-meter is now pegged against the right side of meter, 60db plus, while trying to receive. What is the best first step I should take to find the problem? 73, Chuck - AA5WG ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C stand alone
Doyle, To use the rig, just turn the function switch to on, NOT ext mute and it will work stand alone. If you want to use the NB or Cal functions, you will need a shorted RCA plug in the mute jack for those functions to work. In using an RCA to SO-239 antenna adapter, be careful not to overstress the RCA jack. These adapters are long, heavy and can do some damage. 73, Don, WB5HAK ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C stand alone
Don't forget an antenna relay if you will be using a transmitter so you don't accidentally put RF power into the receiver! Chuck, AC7GZ Don Cunningham wrote: Doyle, To use the rig, just turn the function switch to on, NOT ext mute and it will work stand alone. If you want to use the NB or Cal functions, you will need a shorted RCA plug in the mute jack for those functions to work. In using an RCA to SO-239 antenna adapter, be careful not to overstress the RCA jack. These adapters are long, heavy and can do some damage. 73, Don, WB5HAK ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C AGC Switch
Gale, If one of the guru's doesn't answer up soon, get on Ebay and search for the Ebay store of tr7dude. That is John Kreiner, and he will know if this switch will substitute for you. He still works at Drake service and has been a valuable resource for many of us for hard to get parts. I'm recovering from a knee replacement, and not allowed in the old shed, so can't access my TR5 manual right now!! Sorry, or I'd compare the switches for you. 73, Don, WB5HAK - Original Message - From: GALE STEWARD k...@yahoo.com To: Drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: [Drakelist] R4C AGC Switch I've located a AGC switch that is NOS for the TR5. Does anyone know if this is the same type wafer switch used in the R4C? (My R4C has a cracked wafer) I don't have a TR5 schematic to check. The TR5 front panel shows the same four positions as the R4C but don't know about the actual switch configuration. Any info appreciated! 73, Stew K3ND ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.30/2026 - Release Date: 03/27/09 07:13:00 ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C AGC Switch
The AGC switch on the TR5 is a simple 2 pole 4 position switch. Just glancing at the R-4C diagram, you should be able to make it work. ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C
I have had only one transaction with Radiomart and it was perfectly successful.He offered a Drake RV7 in his usual glowing language. I asked a question which was promptly answered and then bid and won it. The RV7 was packed carefully and shipped quickly. On opening the box I found that the condition exceeded the glowing sales language and indeed it was just like new and worked beautifully. The R4C he now offers does look newer in the photographs than any I have seen,and certainly better than the two very excellent units I used to own. I have read of his bad transactions but think some are inevitable when reselling second hand equipment.I used to sell some locally in Northern Ireland about 30 years ago and was caught out a few times-usually with like new linears and ATU's with burned out switch contacts caused by hot switching. The important thing is that, when there are problems,things are put right with the customer promptly. That is just good business! John GI3KDR -Original Message- From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net]on Behalf Of John Sent: 25 February 2009 00:15 To: Richard J. Fiero II W5TFW; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C You mean RadioMart(y)? ;-) John At 04:28 PM 02/24/2009, Richard J. Fiero II W5TFW wrote: That SALESMAN,... ( no Names ) is at it again on e bay. I cant believe, he is still getting people to buy from him ! Joey A.R.S. W5TFW Richard J. Fiero II www.w5tfw.com www.6mt.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C
Someone commented that how a seller deals with his customer when the customer has a problem is very important. I agree and RadioMart's feedback over the years tell a clear story regarding problem resolution and respect for an unhappy customer. His motto seems to be that the customer is almost always wrong and thus deserving of bad mouthing and retaliation in buyer feedback (now a banned practice on eBay). If you are in receipt of equipment that is reasonably close to his exaggerated descriptions and it arrives without shipping damage, then after-the-sale service is unimportant and you are a satisfied customer. He has many of those types of customers. Heaven help you if you have a serious issue with the equipment and have to deal with this seller. Now has he ever resolved problem successfully that did not turn into negative feedback? Yes, he no doubt has and it is harder to discern those cases from the records. But the many examples of unsatisfactory problem resolution are there for all to see in his feedback history. For this reason alone, I have never bought from him and never will. Dennis AE6C On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:15 AM, John Stringer johnastrin...@btinternet.com wrote: I have had only one transaction with Radiomart and it was perfectly successful.He offered a Drake RV7 in his usual glowing language. I asked a question which was promptly answered and then bid and won it. The RV7 was packed carefully and shipped quickly. On opening the box I found that the condition exceeded the glowing sales language and indeed it was just like new and worked beautifully. The R4C he now offers does look newer in the photographs than any I have seen,and certainly better than the two very excellent units I used to own. I have read of his bad transactions but think some are inevitable when reselling second hand equipment.I used to sell some locally in Northern Ireland about 30 years ago and was caught out a few times-usually with like new linears and ATU's with burned out switch contacts caused by hot switching. The important thing is that, when there are problems,things are put right with the customer promptly. That is just good business! John GI3KDR -Original Message- From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net]on Behalf Of John Sent: 25 February 2009 00:15 To: Richard J. Fiero II W5TFW; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C You mean RadioMart(y)? ;-) John At 04:28 PM 02/24/2009, Richard J. Fiero II W5TFW wrote: That SALESMAN,... ( no Names ) is at it again on e bay. I cant believe, he is still getting people to buy from him ! Joey A.R.S. W5TFW Richard J. Fiero II www.w5tfw.com www.6mt.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C
You mean RadioMart(y)? ;-) John At 04:28 PM 02/24/2009, Richard J. Fiero II W5TFW wrote: That SALESMAN,... ( no Names ) is at it again on e bay. I cant believe, he is still getting people to buy from him ! Joey A.R.S. W5TFW Richard J. Fiero II www.w5tfw.com www.6mt.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Second Mixer Mod
I used to have one of those back in 1973 and yes it wasn´t that good. Back then I made a quick fix, I attenuated the signal before 2:nd mixer and amplified it back up again after, 20 dB I think it was. Understand you dont like to modify it a lot however if you can find QEX Jan/Feb 2006 and read what VK6APH and VK6VZ did with the R-4C, this will make a very good radio. 73 Jim SM2EKM GALE STEWARD wrote: I recently acquired a C-line in very good condition. I never had one in the day and always wanted one. Before the purchase, I asked my friend if the R4C was the later model (5 position mode switch) and he told me it was. As I picked up the radios, I noticed that the R4C was the earlier model (4 position switch). I went ahead with the deal as the price was good. Since I do a lot of DXing/contesting I really didn't want the terrible FET second mixer receiver. I've heard the old and new versions side-by-side in the past on a band with lots of loud signals and there in a huge difference. I recall hearing (somewhere) that Drake would modify the early R4C's by removing the FET and installing a tube 2nd mixer if the customer requested the change. Does anyone actually know any details of the factory mod? It would be pretty easy to rewire the noise blanker socket to accept a 6BE6 second mixer. Has anyone done this previously? I guess the final question is, do I sell this R4C and buy the later model? This earlier receiver is in good condition and I'm not going to do any mods where I'm drilling extra holes, etc. Since I actually use all of my older gear, I want the best performance out of them that I can get. Any info appreciated! 73, Stew K3ND ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Cap Values
Stew - 3000 / 1000 uF @ 20 VDC 200 / 100 / 20 uF @ 200 VDC Check with Tom at http://www.hayseedhamfest.com/capkit.htm Note Version differences... 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com GALE STEWARD wrote: Anyone know the values of the can-type power supply caps in the R4C? My schematic isn't the best and I can't read the values. I believe that one dual cap is 1000uf and 3000uf. I can't decipher the other. TNX 73, Stew K3ND ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Cap Values
Hello Garey, Stew, and the group. A new guy here. We've seen three (3) different versions of the higher voltage R-4C can-cap: 200/100/20 uF @ 200V as you mentioned, 100/100/20 uF @ 200V, and 200/100 uF @ 200V. I have it in my notes somewhere that the 200/100 was used in S/N's below 21000. The 200/100/20 started started with S/N 21000. The 100/100/20 is a mystery. We've had a customer in Canada with two rigs that had this one, both late S/N's. I don't recall the conversation at this point, but I remember that we concluded that these were factory installed. On the advice of a certain Drake guru here, we've chosen to supply a 200/100/20 uF @ 250V for all the units which take a three-section can, and a 200/100 uF @ 250V for the two section can. The lower voltage cap we supply is a 3000/1000 uF with the voltage bumped up to 35V. I'd be interested in hearing anything further on the subject. Tnx es 73, Tom www.hayseedhamfest.com Garey Barrell wrote: Stew - 3000 / 1000 uF @ 20 VDC 200 / 100 / 20 uF @ 200 VDC Check with Tom at http://www.hayseedhamfest.com/capkit.htm Note Version differences... 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com GALE STEWARD wrote: Anyone know the values of the can-type power supply caps in the R4C? My schematic isn't the best and I can't read the values. I believe that one dual cap is 1000uf and 3000uf. I can't decipher the other. TNX 73, Stew K3ND ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [drakelist] R4C Rubber Bushing Replacement
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Oops..Move those decimals one step to the left!9.5 and 16.. Is that closer? 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B C-Line Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C Rubber Bushing Replacement
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Wade - The original bushing was pretty hard as well. If it is the ribbed gray material, try sanding the ends to roughen them up a bit. Then be sure to apply sufficient pressure when installing the knob. The bushing doesn't really have to be soft to work, just not polished on then ends. This will fix about 80% of them. The heater hose works, but I prefer using the clear poly tubing available at hardware stores by the foot. Bottom line. The material really isn't all that critical. 3/8 id, 5/8 od. What is that, about 95 mm id and 160 mm od? The TR-7 used surgical tubing, the translucent, amber colored soft rubber tubing. It works fine as well, but turns a gooey, dark brown texture after a few years. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B C-Line Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com H D MAC LEOD wrote: H D MAC LEOD [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hello Drake List: My R4C needs to have the rubber bushing (which resides under the VFO knob skirt) replaced as it is now rock solid. I have read WB0IQK’s recommendation on using a Goodyear Horizon ¼” 200 PSI W.P. hose. Has anyone successfully used this replacement technique before and are there any other alternatives such as NOS replacements? Wade VA3HM -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
RE: [drakelist] R4C function switch
Hi Chris and the others, What you describe is exactly what happend here too. When rotating the function switch one could hear a scratchy noise rather than a profound click. I solved it in a different way than you but almost similar. I removed the residu of the old raised area and created a new one of the brass on the outer part of the ring. It works fine and if this warns in time before me, I can always go for the silversolder idea ;) Hope this is informative to others too. 73, Dick PA2DW -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Christopher Kovacs Verzonden: donderdag 27 december 2007 21:10 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: [drakelist] R4C function switch Christopher Kovacs [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- I had a problem with my function switch. It lost it's indent so that you could not feel the indent of where the switch position was located. I ended up taking the switch apart to discover that the brass raised area where the switch passes was worn to the point it was flat and the bass indent was no more. What I did was to file this area to accept silver solder. I melted a small blob which match the missing indent. I re-assembled the switch it it was as good as new. Now I am not sure how long this will last, but it's better than no indent position of the switch; I guess I could always touch it up. Hope this helps others Cheers, Chris w0anm -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C function switch
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- For those this has not yet happened to.. A small smear of lithium grease on the wiping surfaces of the detent will go a long way in preventing this from happening.. They were greased when they left the factory, but that was a while ago. That same grease that hardens and crumbles off of the PTO bearing has long since crumbled and fallen off the switch detent too. A drop of DeoxIT on each switch tag and a smear of white grease on the detent will help avoid that lovely replacement job!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Rome, GA Drake B C Line Service Information CDs http://www.k4oah.com DW Harms wrote: Hi Chris and the others, What you describe is exactly what happend here too. When rotating the function switch one could hear a scratchy noise rather than a profound click. I solved it in a different way than you but almost similar. I removed the residu of the old raised area and created a new one of the brass on the outer part of the ring. It works fine and if this warns in time before me, I can always go for the silversolder idea ;) Hope this is informative to others too. 73, Dick PA2DW -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Namens Christopher Kovacs Verzonden: donderdag 27 december 2007 21:10 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: [drakelist] R4C function switch Christopher Kovacs [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- I had a problem with my function switch. It lost it's indent so that you could not feel the indent of where the switch position was located. I ended up taking the switch apart to discover that the brass raised area where the switch passes was worn to the point it was flat and the bass indent was no more. What I did was to file this area to accept silver solder. I melted a small blob which match the missing indent. I re-assembled the switch it it was as good as new. Now I am not sure how long this will last, but it's better than no indent position of the switch; I guess I could always touch it up. Hope this helps others Cheers, Chris w0anm -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C function switch
As a side note, using a Variac or Powerstat to turn an outlet strip on/off, gently at that,?is particularly nice when an indicating meter is part of the arrangement. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [drakelist] R4C function switch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Drakelist de PA2DW, ? The function switch (off/stby//on/ext.mute/etc.) in my R4C is beginning to?warn-out. Too much on/off switching Hi Dick, Hi Dick, Lots of the old equipment falls into that category. I was advised to use one of the multi outlet plug in boxes to alleviate that on off wear, with the comment that?many of our?switch's were rare to unavailable.? Went a?bit further and got one of the computer equipment panels that had separately switched outlets so that I could control each separate device. ?73s Carl WD8NHK See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
RE: [drakelist] R4C function switch
Dick I have a sailboat with lots of electronics onboard. The salt air causes problems with switches, breakers, and pots on the equipment onboard. I've tried many different contact cleaners and lubricants, but PB Blaster works best. This is a penetrating spray lubricant sold in most hardware stores. I don't know if this is a good long-term fix, but I've had very good success restoring old switches and pots using it. It has something in there that removes oxidation and it lubricates the switches at the same time. One would think that leaving an oil film on the contacts would cause the switch to collect dirt and quickly need to be re-cleaned, but I haven't found that to be the case. If you are sure that the switch is gone anyway, there is nothing to lose by trying the stuff. I've used it on all the old radios I've restored. It also works like magic on a variable air-gap capacitor and associated hardware used for tuning. Of course, it there is a mechanical problem with your switch, no lubricant will help. If it just makes poor contact or is difficult to actuate, it might surprise you. If you do try it, I'd be interested to hear the result. Rich - KE1EV _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DW Harms Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [drakelist] R4C function switch Drakelist de PA2DW, The function switch (off/stby//on/ext.mute/etc.) in my R4C is beginning to warn-out. Too much on/off switching I guess hi! I have fixed it temporarely, but it is obvious I need a new one. In fact I only need the shaft with the step-organiser or how would we call that part... Any info on a source? VY 73 and best wishes for the NewYear! Dick PA2DW * http://msgtag.com/?source=ffooter has notified the sender that this message has been received.
Re: [drakelist] R4C function switch
Christopher Kovacs [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- I had a problem with my function switch. It lost it's indent so that you could not feel the indent of where the switch position was located. I ended up taking the switch apart to discover that the brass raised area where the switch passes was worn to the point it was flat and the bass indent was no more. What I did was to file this area to accept silver solder. I melted a small blob which match the missing indent. I re-assembled the switch it it was as good as new. Now I am not sure how long this will last, but it's better than no indent position of the switch; I guess I could always touch it up. Hope this helps others Cheers, Chris w0anm -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Garey BTW Do you have the normal output voltage without load from the PTO? Hubert -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hubert - Most are around 1.6v p-p on the green wire. I have seen them as low as 1.4 and as high as 1.7. Late receivers changed C119 (Pi-net matching) from 390 to 620 pF, which, in combination with a lower output PTO can result in insufficient first mixer injection. In that case, change the 620 back to 390 pF. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B C-Line Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Garey BTW Do you have the normal output voltage without load from the PTO? Hubert -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Thank you Garrey Strange strange 1.6V pp I have that!! I will have to remeasure that; but looks like ther is another issue !!! I've read something about a diode on the PTO Xtal mixer between plate and screen. BTW I had 620pF and changed to 390pF. Looks like if I fixed the PTO and after remounting something other fails. Oh murphy!! 73,s Hubert F6DUK - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [drakelist] R4C problems Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hubert - Most are around 1.6v p-p on the green wire. I have seen them as low as 1.4 and as high as 1.7. Late receivers changed C119 (Pi-net matching) from 390 to 620 pF, which, in combination with a lower output PTO can result in insufficient first mixer injection. In that case, change the 620 back to 390 pF. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B C-Line Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Garey BTW Do you have the normal output voltage without load from the PTO? Hubert -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hubert - Yes, that would be CR5. It is a Germanium diode (1N270), which is difficult to find these days. A Schottky such as 1N5711 should work ok if it is bad. You should have ~ 1 - 1.5V p-p at the INJ jack, and ~ 3.5V p-p at the collector of the Band Oscillator. Garey Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Thank you Garrey Strange strange 1.6V pp I have that!! I will have to remeasure that; but looks like ther is another issue !!! I've read something about a diode on the PTO Xtal mixer between plate and screen. BTW I had 620pF and changed to 390pF. Looks like if I fixed the PTO and after remounting something other fails. Oh murphy!! 73,s Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
john [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- If it turns out bad, I may have one... Best John K5MO At 01:53 PM 8/5/2007, you wrote: Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hubert - Yes, that would be CR5. It is a Germanium diode (1N270), which is difficult to find these days. A Schottky such as 1N5711 should work ok if it is bad. You should have ~ 1 - 1.5V p-p at the INJ jack, and ~ 3.5V p-p at the collector of the Band Oscillator. Garey Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Thank you Garrey Strange strange 1.6V pp I have that!! I will have to remeasure that; but looks like ther is another issue !!! I've read something about a diode on the PTO Xtal mixer between plate and screen. BTW I had 620pF and changed to 390pF. Looks like if I fixed the PTO and after remounting something other fails. Oh murphy!! 73,s Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Don Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- And if John doesn't have a 1N270, I have many left from my RTTY TU building days that I will make available. 73, Don, WB5HAK - Original Message - From: john [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [drakelist] R4C problems john [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- If it turns out bad, I may have one... Best John K5MO At 01:53 PM 8/5/2007, you wrote: Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hubert - Yes, that would be CR5. It is a Germanium diode (1N270), which is difficult to find these days. A Schottky such as 1N5711 should work ok if it is bad. You should have ~ 1 - 1.5V p-p at the INJ jack, and ~ 3.5V p-p at the collector of the Band Oscillator. Garey Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Thank you Garrey Strange strange 1.6V pp I have that!! I will have to remeasure that; but looks like ther is another issue !!! I've read something about a diode on the PTO Xtal mixer between plate and screen. BTW I had 620pF and changed to 390pF. Looks like if I fixed the PTO and after remounting something other fails. Oh murphy!! 73,s Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/936 - Release Date: 8/4/2007 2:42 PM -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Thank you all , I saved a load of them years ago !! I ll go for two weeks check if the mediterranean sea is still there and will put this case on the bench by end of august i'll keep you informed Now its QRP time with my elecraft K1 Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
john [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Enjoy the K1 Hubert... love mine almost as much as the TR7s. 73 John K5MO At 02:49 PM 8/5/2007, you wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Thank you all , I saved a load of them years ago !! I ll go for two weeks check if the mediterranean sea is still there and will put this case on the bench by end of august i'll keep you informed Now its QRP time with my elecraft K1 Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hubert - Check the +11V power supply, which is derived from the +150 supply. Check for ripple on the +150V and C165. Sounds like the correct 10V Zener inside the PTO doesn't have enough 'headroom' from the +11V and is dropping out of regulation. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 4-B C-Line Service Supplement CDs www.k4oah.com Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hello I am putting on the air a Drake Cline. R-4C sn 25508 has following problems. While tuned on a frequency frequency is juming a few hertz erraticaly. Hardly noticable on SSB but awfull in CW. I cleaned mechanism tryed to ground the yoke and ended up with a completely dismantled PTO lying on y bench and still jittering. Power up by a lab supply. I changed the resistors the FET the buffer and several NP0 caps. Only if I replace the Zener diode by a 7.5V it gets stable. I monitor on a receiver tuned lets say on 5000Khz and with a hp8568 spectrum analyzer. With the 7.5V zener output is not enough for driving the mixer so I put a little amp at the output but I still low and 2 S points down against the T4X PTO So do you have any ideas or a spare PTO :) Best 73,s Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hi Garey Thanks for the answer. I checked that. Problem subsists even with a lab supply in place of the 11V Stability turns to normal at 8V but than I have not enough output to feed the mixer. With a spectrum analyzer and a 10hz BW you see the signal playing rock an roll until 8V Changing fet and buffer transistor did not hel BTW when I opened the can I noticed that the FETs Source lead was not soldered was loose I told myself thats it !! Hooked te supply and it was still there I separated the PTO board from the slug oscillator runs than at 5330Khz just to make sure that its nothing mechanical but no!! Could be a ceramic cap that I did not change as I dont know the value and as I dont want to ruin temp comp. With the high Q voltage could be high enough to render them unstable All ideas are wellcome 73,s from Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hubert - I find it hard to believe that a cap is breaking down at 10V and not at 8V. What FET are you using? ALL FETs have a range of current (Idss), and the MPF102 has a wider range than most. Perhaps a different FET? Does the amplitude of the output change with the frequency change, or frequency only? Interesting problem.. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hi Garey Thanks for the answer. I checked that. Problem subsists even with a lab supply in place of the 11V Stability turns to normal at 8V but than I have not enough output to feed the mixer. With a spectrum analyzer and a 10hz BW you see the signal playing rock an roll until 8V Changing fet and buffer transistor did not hel BTW when I opened the can I noticed that the FETs Source lead was not soldered was loose I told myself thats it !! Hooked te supply and it was still there I separated the PTO board from the slug oscillator runs than at 5330Khz just to make sure that its nothing mechanical but no!! Could be a ceramic cap that I did not change as I dont know the value and as I dont want to ruin temp comp. With the high Q voltage could be high enough to render them unstable All ideas are wellcome 73,s from Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- I tried a J310 a BF256C always the same. Oscillator is the BF256C Buffer amp is a 2N3404 now. About the caps I agree but as I get over 9V signals turns very dirty on the analyzer and you have FM sidebands over more than 100Hz!! Interresting case isn't it? I stick with the 8V and used a MAR1 amp to incease the PTO level but it is not enough. I've breadborded an amp with an OPA603 witch has more gain and geater output swing. I try this tomorrow. It breaks a bit my heart because I prefer vintage equipment running as they were designed once. Thank you for scratching your head with me Hubert -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Garey Barrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Well the only thing I can think of to try at this point would be to disconnect one end of the tubular TC cap. The frequency will shift, and the temperature compensation will be messed up, but at least you could then increase the voltage to 10V and see if it still FMs. If that cap does indeed prove to be the problem, you can read the value by deciphering the dot code. I don't believe the TC is coded, so you could try an NP0 of the proper value and see what the TC does. Then depending upon your patience level try an N750, N330 or N90 and see what happens. Have you checked DC potentials when it is FMing? Perhaps you have a noisy resistor. They ARE carbon comps, and in particular the 1M Gate resistor R111 could cause some mischief. Do you have some cooler spray? Or heat gun/solder iron to selectively heat passives? There's absolutely no reason you should have to add an amplifier to a proven design with 50,000+ examples on the hoof!! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Hubert ROTH wrote: Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- I tried a J310 a BF256C always the same. Oscillator is the BF256C Buffer amp is a 2N3404 now. About the caps I agree but as I get over 9V signals turns very dirty on the analyzer and you have FM sidebands over more than 100Hz!! Interresting case isn't it? I stick with the 8V and used a MAR1 amp to incease the PTO level but it is not enough. I've breadborded an amp with an OPA603 witch has more gain and geater output swing. I try this tomorrow. It breaks a bit my heart because I prefer vintage equipment running as they were designed once. Thank you for scratching your head with me Hubert -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C problems
Hubert ROTH [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- So Garrey I sprayed and heated, nothing exept nomal drift, I changed the 1 Mohm gate resitor and the source resistor, remains only these caps! I will try to look for a spare PTO even with the whole rig around and then I will dedicate some time to find the culpritt. If somebody reading this message has a wreck (with PTO!) he is welcome. Thank you for your patience and looking forward for more adventures With my best 73,s Hubert F6DUK -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] R4C
Thanks Evan, Rick W0RT - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [drakelist] R4C [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rick, Depends on which of the three production runs, serial number, and electrical and cosmetic condition. Range would be $150-$400 depending on these factors. 73, Evan** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.-- Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
RE: [drakelist] R4C
$200 - $400 - depending on how nice. If it has crystals, filters and Noise blanker. more on the high or higher end. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Tucker Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [drakelist] R4C What is the going rate for a stock R4C in nice condition? Rick W0RT
Re: [drakelist] R4C
[EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rick, Depends on which of the three production runs, serial number, and electrical and cosmetic condition. Range would be $150-$400 depending on these factors. 73, Evan** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
