[newbie] Fwd: [linux-aktivis] [JOKE] The Creation (Microsoft Style)
The Creation (Microsoft Style) 1. In the beginning GOD created the Bit and the Byte. And from those he created the Word. 2. And there were two Bytes in the Word; and nothing else existed. And God separated the One from the Zero; and he saw it was good. 3. And God said - Let the Data be; And so it happened. And God said - Let the Data go to their proper places. And he created floppy disks and hard disks and compact disks. 4. And God said - Let the computers be, so there would be a place to put floppy disks and hard disks and compact disks. Thus God created computers and called them hardware. 5. And there was no Software yet. But God created programs; small and big. And told them - Go and multiply yourselves and fill all the Memory. 6. And God said - I will create the Programmer; And the Programmer will make new programs and govern over the computers and programs and Data. 7. And God created the Programmer; and put him at Data Center; And God showed the Programmer the Catalog Tree and said You can use all the volumes and subvolumes but DO NOT USE Windows. 8. And God said - It is not Good for the programmer to be alone. He took a bone from the Programmer's body and created a creature that would look up at the Programmer; and admire the Programmer; and love the things the Programmer does; And God called the creature: the User. 9. And the Programmer and the User were left under the naked DOS and it was Good. 10. But Bill was smarter than all the other creatures of God. And Bill said to the User - Did God really tell you not to run any programs ? 11. And the User answered - God told us that we can use every program and every piece of Data but told us not to run Windows or we will die. 12. And Bill said to the User - How can you talk about something you did not even try. The moment you run Windows you will become equal to God. You will be able to create anything you like by a simple click of your mouse. 13. And the User saw that the fruits of the Windows were nicer and easier to use. And the User saw that any knowledge was useless - since Windows could replace it. 14. So the User installed the Windows on his computer; and said to the Programmers that it was good. 15. And the Programmer immediately started to look for new drivers. And God asked him - What are you looking for? And the Programmer answered - I am looking for new drivers because I can not find them in the DOS. And God said - Who said you need drivers? Did you run Windows? And the Programmer said - It was Bill who told us to ! 16. And God said to Bill - Because of what you did you will be hated by all the creatures. And the User will always be unhappy with you. And you will always sell Windows. 17. And God said to the User - Because of what you did, the Windows will disappoint you and eat up all your Resources; and you will have to use lousy programs; and you will always rely on the Programmer's help. 18. And God said to the Programmer - Because you listened to the User you will never be happy. All your programs will have errors and you will have to fix them and fix them to the end of time. 19. And God threw them out of the Data Center and locked the door and secured it with a password. 20. GENERAL PROTECTION FAULT. -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | http://linux2.arinet.org 00:00:17 up 5:42, Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586 public key: https://www.arinet.org/fajar-pub.key Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Fwd: [linux-aktivis] [JOKE] The Creation (Microsoft Style)
On Tuesday 15 March 2005 12:01 pm, Fajar Priyanto wrote: The Creation (Microsoft Style) excellent! -- Julie Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
On Thursday 10 March 2005 01:13 am, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: I tried it first, but lilo complained about 'no root partition found' Let me guess - the second copy of lilo is the one that complained, right? If so, check your /etc/lilo.conf in Suse, and make sure it is correct. Make sure you run lilo in Suse after you make any changes in that copy of the config file. The thing you have to remember here is that you will be using two separate lilo installs to boot Suse. The version from Mandrake handles booting Mandrake, and Windows. To boot Suse, it will hand control over to the Suse lilo install, and it will handle booting Suse. No, the one that complained is Mdk's lilo. That's why then I googled and found the way to 'load' Suse's lilo from Mdk by mounting the partition in Mdk. As far as the Mandrake version of lilo knows, it could be booting any OS when it uses the other=/dev/hda10 entry. Yes, that is why. I am surprised it even boots. If the old version of the kernel and initial RAM disk were removed as part of the upgrade, then the only reason it still boots is that the space they use on the disk has not been overwritten by new data. The thing you have to understand about lilo is that it is really two separate parts. The part you run from Linux understands the file system, and configures things for the part that actually boots the system. The part that boots the system does not understand the file system. All it know is where the information it wants is located on the disk. You gave it this information when you ran lilo in Linux. But if you make changes, you have to run lilo again, to update this information. With the normal setup, this is not a problem. The package managers in both Suse and Mandrake take care of running lilo for you when you update the kernel. But, because you are using the Mandrake copy of lilo to boot Suse, Yast updates the wrong version of lilo. Mandrake does not take care of it, because it has no idea that you updated the kernel in Suse. So you have to do it manually. I would spend the time getting the version of lilo on /dev/hda10 working, and using the other=/dev/hda10 option to boot Suse. Or I would consider changing Mandrake to use Grub instead of Lilo. Grub does understand file systems, so it would handle the kernel changing in Suse better. You would still have to make sure and update the grub config files when you change kernels, but at least if would warn you when you break things. Now, if you want a real challenge, install one of the other boot manages on the MBR, change Mandrake lilo so it installs to your root partition instead of the MBR, and let the boot manager give you a menu for Mandrake, Suse, or Windows. There are several options for free boot managers on freshmeat, or you could go with something like System Commander. Mikkel Thank you so much for the very detail explanation Mikkel. I really appreaciate it. Your explanation opens up a new understanding for me on Linux bootloader. I will surely experiment it on my spare pc. -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | http://linux2.arinet.org 21:34:16 up 30 min, Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586 public key: https://www.arinet.org/fajar-pub.key Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
Fajar Priyanto wrote: On Thursday 10 March 2005 01:13 am, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: I tried it first, but lilo complained about 'no root partition found' Let me guess - the second copy of lilo is the one that complained, right? If so, check your /etc/lilo.conf in Suse, and make sure it is correct. Make sure you run lilo in Suse after you make any changes in that copy of the config file. The thing you have to remember here is that you will be using two separate lilo installs to boot Suse. The version from Mandrake handles booting Mandrake, and Windows. To boot Suse, it will hand control over to the Suse lilo install, and it will handle booting Suse. No, the one that complained is Mdk's lilo. That's why then I googled and found the way to 'load' Suse's lilo from Mdk by mounting the partition in Mdk. What did the lilo entry look like when it complained? The setup you are using now does not use Suse's lilo at all. It just adds an entry in Mandrake's copy of lilo to load the Suse kernel and inital RAM disk. Note: If you used image=/dev/hda10 instead of other=/dev/hda10, then you might get the 'no root partition found' error. I am not sure what the first error would be, but lilo stops at the first error it finds. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
On Thursday 10 March 2005 11:43 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: Note: If you used image=/dev/hda10 instead of other=/dev/hda10, then you might get the 'no root partition found' error. I am not sure what the first error would be, but lilo stops at the first error it finds. Yes, that's the one. I used the other=/dev/hda10. Like this: other=/dev/hda10 label=Suse92 table=/dev/hda The error was no root partition found. Yes. -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | http://linux2.arinet.org 04:23:52 up 7:20, Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586 public key: https://www.arinet.org/fajar-pub.key Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
Fajar Priyanto wrote: On Thursday 10 March 2005 11:43 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: Note: If you used image=/dev/hda10 instead of other=/dev/hda10, then you might get the 'no root partition found' error. I am not sure what the first error would be, but lilo stops at the first error it finds. Yes, that's the one. I used the other=/dev/hda10. Like this: other=/dev/hda10 label=Suse92 table=/dev/hda The error was no root partition found. Yes. I think I know what is going on now. What does your Suse /etc/lilo.conf look like? If you boot into Suse, and run lilo -v, does it run without errors? I think your error may have been because the Suse version of lilo was not passing the root partition information, or was passing the wrong information. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
Fajar Priyanto wrote: On Wednesday 09 March 2005 11:22 am, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: other=/dev/hda10 lable=Suse92 When you pick this option, it will transfere control over to the new version of lilo. I tried it first, but lilo complained about 'no root partition found' Let me guess - the second copy of lilo is the one that complained, right? If so, check your /etc/lilo.conf in Suse, and make sure it is correct. Make sure you run lilo in Suse after you make any changes in that copy of the config file. The thing you have to remember here is that you will be using two separate lilo installs to boot Suse. The version from Mandrake handles booting Mandrake, and Windows. To boot Suse, it will hand control over to the Suse lilo install, and it will handle booting Suse. As far as the Mandrake version of lilo knows, it could be booting any OS when it uses the other=/dev/hda10 entry. The way you have it set up, if you update the kernel in Suse, you then have to boot Mandrake, update /etc/lilo.conf, and run lilo before you can boot the new kernel in Suse. Also, if you want to have more then one kernel in Suse, you will have to add the entries in the Mandrake copy of lilo.conf, and run lilo from Mandrake. Also, if you wipe out the boot partition in Mandrake, you will not be able to boot Suse from the hard drive. Ah interesting, no wonder when I update my Suse kernel with Yast Online Update, it gave me lots of error when rebooting about can't find /lib/modules.. Many thanks Mikkel :) I hope Mdk10.2 will be much better than Suse92. Yes, that is why. I am surprised it even boots. If the old version of the kernel and initial RAM disk were removed as part of the upgrade, then the only reason it still boots is that the space they use on the disk has not been overwritten by new data. The thing you have to understand about lilo is that it is really two separate parts. The part you run from Linux understands the file system, and configures things for the part that actually boots the system. The part that boots the system does not understand the file system. All it know is where the information it wants is located on the disk. You gave it this information when you ran lilo in Linux. But if you make changes, you have to run lilo again, to update this information. With the normal setup, this is not a problem. The package managers in both Suse and Mandrake take care of running lilo for you when you update the kernel. But, because you are using the Mandrake copy of lilo to boot Suse, Yast updates the wrong version of lilo. Mandrake does not take care of it, because it has no idea that you updated the kernel in Suse. So you have to do it manually. I would spend the time getting the version of lilo on /dev/hda10 working, and using the other=/dev/hda10 option to boot Suse. Or I would consider changing Mandrake to use Grub instead of Lilo. Grub does understand file systems, so it would handle the kernel changing in Suse better. You would still have to make sure and update the grub config files when you change kernels, but at least if would warn you when you break things. Now, if you want a real challenge, install one of the other boot manages on the MBR, change Mandrake lilo so it installs to your root partition instead of the MBR, and let the boot manager give you a menu for Mandrake, Suse, or Windows. There are several options for free boot managers on freshmeat, or you could go with something like System Commander. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
Hi all, For those of you who are interested in installing Linux on extended partition (or in MS terms we call it logical drive), I've successfully do it on installing Suse92 on hda10, where there is already MS Windows, and Mandrake. Here's the brief steps: 1. Install Windows (with 2 partitions in my case) 2. Install Mandrake on its own partition (with 5 partitions in my case, with 1 partition I call /data -- hda10) 3. Install Suse92 on /data. This is the caveat: -- choose LILO (you can use grub too, but I don't know yet the syntax), -- install LILO on the root partition of /hda10, -- format hda10 with any filesystem as long as Mandrake can read it. Suse will reboot once we finish the first installation step. 4. When rebooted, go into Mandrake. Modify /etc/lilo.conf with this: image=/data/boot/vmlinuz label=Suse92 root=/dev/hda10 initrd= /data/boot/initrd vga=788 read-only Modify the above lines that suits your environment. Run lilo -v to see if there's any error. If there isn't, you good to go. Reboot. You will see in the LILO menu that there's Suse92 entry. Choose it, and Voila! You've got Suse92! You dont even bother to create swap partition, Suse will use the swap from Mandrake. I've made an artikel about it in http://linux2.arinet.org (Indonesian) HTH. -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | http://linux2.arinet.org 09:46:07 up 1:28, Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586 public key: https://www.arinet.org/fajar-pub.key Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
Fajar Priyanto wrote: Hi all, For those of you who are interested in installing Linux on extended partition (or in MS terms we call it logical drive), I've successfully do it on installing Suse92 on hda10, where there is already MS Windows, and Mandrake. Here's the brief steps: 1. Install Windows (with 2 partitions in my case) 2. Install Mandrake on its own partition (with 5 partitions in my case, with 1 partition I call /data -- hda10) 3. Install Suse92 on /data. This is the caveat: -- choose LILO (you can use grub too, but I don't know yet the syntax), -- install LILO on the root partition of /hda10, -- format hda10 with any filesystem as long as Mandrake can read it. Suse will reboot once we finish the first installation step. 4. When rebooted, go into Mandrake. Modify /etc/lilo.conf with this: image=/data/boot/vmlinuz label=Suse92 root=/dev/hda10 initrd= /data/boot/initrd vga=788 read-only Modify the above lines that suits your environment. Run lilo -v to see if there's any error. If there isn't, you good to go. Reboot. You will see in the LILO menu that there's Suse92 entry. Choose it, and Voila! You've got Suse92! You dont even bother to create swap partition, Suse will use the swap from Mandrake. I've made an artikel about it in http://linux2.arinet.org (Indonesian) HTH. With this setup, you do not need to install lilo for Suse92 at all. You are using the version of lilo you installed when you installed Mandrake to boot Suse. If you want to use the version of lilo you installed on hda10, then use this: other=/dev/hda10 lable=Suse92 When you pick this option, it will transfere control over to the new version of lilo. The way you have it set up, if you update the kernel in Suse, you then have to boot Mandrake, update /etc/lilo.conf, and run lilo before you can boot the new kernel in Suse. Also, if you want to have more then one kernel in Suse, you will have to add the entries in the Mandrake copy of lilo.conf, and run lilo from Mandrake. Also, if you wipe out the boot partition in Mandrake, you will not be able to boot Suse from the hard drive. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Installing Linux on extended partition (logical drive)
On Wednesday 09 March 2005 11:22 am, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: other=/dev/hda10 lable=Suse92 When you pick this option, it will transfere control over to the new version of lilo. I tried it first, but lilo complained about 'no root partition found' The way you have it set up, if you update the kernel in Suse, you then have to boot Mandrake, update /etc/lilo.conf, and run lilo before you can boot the new kernel in Suse. Also, if you want to have more then one kernel in Suse, you will have to add the entries in the Mandrake copy of lilo.conf, and run lilo from Mandrake. Also, if you wipe out the boot partition in Mandrake, you will not be able to boot Suse from the hard drive. Ah interesting, no wonder when I update my Suse kernel with Yast Online Update, it gave me lots of error when rebooting about can't find /lib/modules.. Many thanks Mikkel :) I hope Mdk10.2 will be much better than Suse92. -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | http://linux2.arinet.org 11:34:35 up 3:17, Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586 public key: https://www.arinet.org/fajar-pub.key Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: Fwd: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 23 Jan 2005 07:20, Michaël Van Dorpe wrote: I installed most of the bug fixes and security updates. Some kdebase... and libkdebase4... files are left, 43 MB in total. I select all of them and click install, and this happens: Additional packages needed/ To satisfy dependencies, the following package(s) also need to be installed: kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk The packages are downloaded to /var/cache/urpmi/rpms and removed when the install is finished. Check that directory (you will need to su to root) and if you have a slew of packages there try to install them, one at a time, until you see which packages can't be installed. This should tell you where the error lies. Once you know that you may have to try several possibilities. You could delete that package and try again - it could be a bad download. You could try a different mirror - there could be a problem on the server. If you still can't do it, bring any messages to the list. Anne - -- Registered Linux User No.293302 (http://counter.li.org/) Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Mandrake at all levels -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB83CykFAvMr/nNX8RAl+gAJ9eIjt8BBn5YI18EsumvJHldkfkLACfeYW8 WQIHF755pMAcYsIzSJ2SVYs= =K5f6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: Fwd: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
The packages are downloaded to /var/cache/urpmi/rpms and removed when the install is finished. Check that directory (you will need to su to root) and if you have a slew of packages there try to install them, one at a time, until you see which packages can't be installed. This should tell you where the error lies. which gives: [EMAIL PROTECTED] rpms]# ls kdebase-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-common-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-kate-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-kdeprintfax-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-kdm-config-file-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-kmenuedit-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-konsole-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm kdebase-progs-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm libkdebase4-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm libkdebase4-kate-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm libkdebase4-kate-devel-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm libkdebase4-kmenuedit-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm libkdebase4-konsole-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm [EMAIL PROTECTED] rpms]# urpmi kdebase To satisfy dependencies, the following 15 packages are going to be installed (43 MB): kdebase-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-common-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-kate-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-kdeprintfax-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-kdm-config-file-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-kmenuedit-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-konsole-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 kdebase-progs-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 libkdebase4-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 libkdebase4-kate-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 libkdebase4-kate-devel-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 libkdebase4-kmenuedit-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 libkdebase4-konsole-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586 Is this OK? (Y/n) y ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/Mandrakelinux/official/updates/10.1/main_updates/./kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm ...retrieving failed: curl failed: exited with 19 or signal 0 ...retrieving failed: curl: (19) Given file does not exist installing /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-kmenuedit-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-common-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-progs-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/libkdebase4-kmenuedit-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/libkdebase4-kate-devel-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/libkdebase4-konsole-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-kdeprintfax-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/libkdebase4-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-kate-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-kdm-config-file-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-konsole-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/kdebase-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm /var/cache/urpmi/rpms/libkdebase4-kate-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm Installation failed: kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins = 1:3.2.3-134.4.101mdk is needed by kdebase-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk kdebase = 1:3.2.3-128mdk is needed by (installed) libkdebase4-nsplugins-3.2.3-128mdk Installation failed, some files are missing: ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/Mandrakelinux/official/updates/10.1/main_updates/./kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk.i586.rpm You may want to update your urpmi database Once you know that you may have to try several possibilities. You could delete that package and try again - it could be a bad download. You could try a different mirror - there could be a problem on the server. As you can see above, I switched from the Belgian Belnet server to the German Beyreuth server, and it give the same errors... I also did urpmi.update -a If you still can't do it, bring any messages to the list. no problem! :-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
I just removed Windows XP pro from my Dell Inspiron 5100 (PIV 2.4, 512MB ram) and installed Mandrake 10.1 'powerpack'. The 'starter guide' said I would find Mozilla in Internet/Browsers, but that is not the case. So, I tried to launch Konqueror from the, uhm, (*looks in manual*), oh yes, the 'panel'. However, nothing happens! So I installed Mozilla with the configuration tool on the same panel, and ran it with the run command/mozilla. This works fine. A little later, I discovered that double clicking the 'home' icon on the desktop doesn't do anything either, and that's when I started to look for help... and ended up subscribing on this mailinglist. Is something wrong with my install or with my computer? Thanks for any help! Michael Van Dorpe Belgium Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Fwd: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
Logging out/in didn't help. So, now I'm going to try your other suggestion: updates. I did get some updates from the internet during the installation, if I remember correctly. If that is not what you mean, then there is more: in the control center I can choose 'updates'. All security updates are 320MB... if I add the bugfixes update, that makes 691MB! I just want to make sure that I don't waste my university monthly download limit on this if this is not what you mean... can you confirm these are the updates I need to do? Also, please let me know if I should have sent a reply instead of an e-mail to the whole list. Thanks for your help! -- Forwarded message -- From: Rick Kunath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:07:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything To: Michaël Van Dorpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Saturday 22 January 2005 03:04 pm, Michaël Van Dorpe wrote: A little later, I discovered that double clicking the 'home' icon on the desktop doesn't do anything either, and that's when I started to look for help... and ended up subscribing on this mailinglist. Is something wrong with my install or with my computer? Thanks for any help! Just done the updates? If not do them, then log out of KDE and back in. I've seen this behavior sometimes after installing upgrades. Logging out of KDE and back in fixes it. Rick Kunath Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: Fwd: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 22 Jan 2005 20:26, Michaël Van Dorpe wrote: Logging out/in didn't help. So, now I'm going to try your other suggestion: updates. Top-posting is frowned upon, on the list. Read http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette for more explanation. I did get some updates from the internet during the installation, if I remember correctly. If that is not what you mean, then there is more: in the control center I can choose 'updates'. All security updates are 320MB... if I add the bugfixes update, that makes 691MB! You need Security and Bug Fixes. The third category - I can't remember the name, but something like 'normal updates' are not important. You can get them as and when you need them. It's a bit download, that first time, but it won't ever be as big a that again. You do need to check regularly, though for security updates, so that it keeps the amount manageable. Also, please let me know if I should have sent a reply instead of an e-mail to the whole list. You were right to reply to the list. If we can all read replies, we know what others have said and can add helpful extra information. The problem is that you are a gmail user, so our replies go to you instead of the list unless we alter the To: line - and we often don't realise it. It's polite to add a line either at the top or the bottom of your messages reminding people that you are a gmail user, and the reply line will need adjusting. Anne - -- Registered Linux User No.293302 (http://counter.li.org/) Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Mandrake at all levels -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB8r0ekFAvMr/nNX8RAisfAJ45NvsBhAk+iq0Ug80w9mrkIWbU0wCfd5eM CWRwBzt5csEITLJtOyri3tM= =3Mod -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: Fwd: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
You need Security and Bug Fixes. It's a bit download, that first time, but it won't ever be as big a that again. So I downloaded the 191 files or 691MB... unfortunately one of those files was corrupted or something, and I tried to install (and download) those security and bug fixes in batches of 50MB or so. I heard that downloads from this ftp server does not count for my university download limit, so that's not a problem anymore. There's 43MB left that I can't install: nine bug fixes whose name start with 'kdebase', five starting with 'libkdebase4'. When I want to install these, I get messages about invalid signatures and even when I ignore those, the installation still doesn't work. So I just logged out/in again because, after all, I had installed most of the updates. Double clicking 'home' or 'konqueror' still gave no response. I decided to change some of the ftp settings of the updates site, but that didn't work either and now I lost the original address as well... I'm a little stuck now :-) I'm going to read some more in my ' starter guide' and wait for your responses! Thanks! Michael, linux day one Belgium, five minutes before 0.00 (sent from a gmail address - reply to the whole list please) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: Fwd: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:55:02 +0100 Michaël Van Dorpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: install these, I get messages about invalid signatures and even when I ignore those, the installation still doesn't work. You usually can ignore the sigs. But what error messages do you get when you try installing these files? Michael, linux day one Welcome.. ! -- David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: Fwd: [newbie] first linux install: double clicking 'home' doesn't do anything
David E. Fox wrote: install these, I get messages about invalid signatures and even when I ignore those, the installation still doesn't work. You usually can ignore the sigs. But what error messages do you get when you try installing these files? I installed most of the bug fixes and security updates. Some kdebase... and libkdebase4... files are left, 43 MB in total. I select all of them and click install, and this happens: Additional packages needed/ To satisfy dependencies, the following package(s) also need to be installed: kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101mdk I click 'OK' The following packages have bad signatures: kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101.mdk.i586.rpm: Missing signature (Couldn't open file) Do you want to continue installation? I choose 'Yes'. Problem during installation. There was a problem during the installation: kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins = 1.3.2.3-134.4.101mdk is needed by kdebase-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.101mdk kdebase = 1.3.2.3-128mdk is needed by (installed) libkdebase4-nsplugins-3.2.3-128mdk ...retrieving failed: exited with 19 or 0 unable to install package ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/Mandrakelinux/official/updates/10.1/RPMS/./kdebase-kcontrol-nsplugins-3.2.3-134.4.101.mdk.i86.rpm I click 'Ok' And that's it... Over to the next suggestion: charles wrote: you should check the setting for the 'Home' icon on your desktop and see what the command is for the 'Application' tab. It should be something like this kfmclient openURL %u. I've seen cases where there was a different command, that referred to the view profiles used by Konqueror, was misconfigured which resulted in the response you described after clicking on the 'Home' desktop icon. Indeed, it did say something about profiles... although I can't remember what exactly that was. In any case, I changed it to what you said. Double clicking this gives me the usual timer, and then, that timer disappears, as usual. Nothing happens. Any other suggestions for these update and irresponsive home/conqueror icons on this fresh install? Thank you! oh, Gmail gave me server errors 502 yesterday, it was 3am when I decided that Google would not fix them before I had some sleep...! Gmail is not perfect... but I like to keep my mail webbased during this XP-mandrake switch. At least, the web stays the same whereever you are :-) Be sure to reply to the list, as this is a Gmail message... Michael, day two Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] Mandrake Linux 10.1 will not install.
I have Mandrake Linux 10.1 on CD and I also downloded the DVD ISO. On either I boot from teh CD and start the Install. It starts the process, then reboots and the XP Boot Menu comes up, the CDROM (Or DVD) reboots and the process starts all over again. I have removed all drives and installed just one FAT32 formatted drive as the primary but the routine is the same. I do not know where the BOOT Menu resides but it is obviously not on the Drive in this case but it still comes up. System is a Hewlett-Packard a708n 512 MB RAM Any suggestions?? Thanks Cy Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I spent two hours looking thru umpteen pages to find a torent site to dld the live cd for knoppix so I might see a demo or something to try learning about linux. I live in NY state so a site nearby would be nice if anyone knows of one. On 16 Dec 2004 at 18:43, Anders Lind wrote: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:25:18 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. Is Knoppix what you are looking forit is Linux on a CD... /anders Nearby isn't nessesarily always the best choice for a mirror. If bandwidth is a problem with the mirrors (As it usually is in my experience), choose a mirror located where it's the middle of the night ;-). For examply, if I'm downloading at 5 o'clock CT, I might choose a mirror located in France, where it's midnight. Cheerio, ES -- Registered Linux user #: 366,862 Registered Linux computer #: 261,856 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Saturday 18 Dec 2004 5:15 am, Stephen Khn wrote: On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:09, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. This being a Mandrake list I can't believe that no one suggested Mandrake Move: our very own Live CD. http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3#move Oh. Right oh! Forgot ALL about Mandrake. Is THAT what we run here? Oh yes... Works so well we forget all about it. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
Oh yes... Works so well we forget all about it Mandrake has something going for it.. Try subbing to the Fedora mailing list. :-) Lets just say you need bandwidth to cope with the sheer volume of mail from people wanting assistance! JRH - Original Message - From: Richard Urwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] win- linux On Saturday 18 Dec 2004 5:15 am, Stephen Khn wrote: On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:09, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. This being a Mandrake list I can't believe that no one suggested Mandrake Move: our very own Live CD. http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3#move Oh. Right oh! Forgot ALL about Mandrake. Is THAT what we run here? Oh yes... Works so well we forget all about it. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Saturday 18 Dec 2004 13:07, Richard Urwin wrote: On Saturday 18 Dec 2004 5:15 am, Stephen Kühn wrote: On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:09, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. This being a Mandrake list I can't believe that no one suggested Mandrake Move: our very own Live CD. http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3#move I like the PCLinuxOS live Cd myself. Nice Mandrake feel to it...and it works wonderfully :-) Nicer than Knoppix for Mandrake users, I suppose. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by Mandrake 10.1 Microsoft Free Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Saturday 18 December 2004 08:50 pm, Ian wrote: I like the PCLinuxOS live Cd myself. Nice Mandrake feel to it...and it works wonderfully :-) Nicer than Knoppix for Mandrake users, I suppose. I stumbled on http://www.colinux.org It will run linux on windowez without special commercial vmware. Looks nice, but haven't tried it. -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | http://linux2.arinet.org 02:33:08 up 10:39, Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586 public key: https://www.arinet.org/fajar-pub.key Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
I spent two hours looking thru umpteen pages to find a torent site to dld the live cd for knoppix so I might see a demo or something to try learning about linux. I live in NY state so a site nearby would be nice if anyone knows of one. On 16 Dec 2004 at 18:43, Anders Lind wrote: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:25:18 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. Is Knoppix what you are looking forit is Linux on a CD... /anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Friday 17 December 2004 23:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I spent two hours looking thru umpteen pages to find a torent site to dld the live cd for knoppix so I might see a demo or something to try learning about linux. I live in NY state so a site nearby would be nice if anyone knows of one. On 16 Dec 2004 at 18:43, Anders Lind wrote: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:25:18 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. Is Knoppix what you are looking forit is Linux on a CD... /anders By looking at the Knoppix site, there are 3 servers in the US, but the one in Virginia seems down. You can try : http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/knoppix/ which isn't a torrent site, but offers ftp + http. Good luck Kaj Haulrich. -- *sent from a 100% Microsoft-free workstation* * http://haulrich.net * *Running Linux (Mandrake 10.1) - kernel 2.6.8* Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 00:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I spent two hours looking thru umpteen pages to find a torent site to dld the live cd for knoppix so I might see a demo or something to try learning about linux. I live in NY state so a site nearby would be nice if anyone knows of one. I found it by entering 'knoppix' in google. Go to: Http://www.knoppix.org and look under 'mirrors' has FTP HTTP plus torrent sites at: http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ Also available on http://www.suprnova.org - search for knoppix On 16 Dec 2004 at 18:43, Anders Lind wrote: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:25:18 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. Is Knoppix what you are looking forit is Linux on a CD... /anders __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com -- prm -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I spent two hours looking thru umpteen pages to find a torent site to dld the live cd for knoppix so I might see a demo or something to try learning about linux. I live in NY state so a site nearby would be nice if anyone knows of one. I live in S.E.GA USA and downloaded the latest Knoppix 3.7 and the game edition from the torrents on this site. The site may be abroad, but the downloads were twice as fast as any other torrents I've downloaded. Bittorrent is nothing short of a miracle. http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ hope this helps, Ken Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. This being a Mandrake list I can't believe that no one suggested Mandrake Move: our very own Live CD. http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3#move -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ Mandrake 10.1 for i586, kernel 2.6.8.1-12mdk 00:05:00 up 2 days, 11:13, 1 user, load average: 0.43, 0.43, 0.49 --- Press on: nothing in the world can take the place of perseverance. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. -Calvin Coolidge Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:09, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. This being a Mandrake list I can't believe that no one suggested Mandrake Move: our very own Live CD. http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3#move Oh. Right oh! Forgot ALL about Mandrake. Is THAT what we run here? -- stephen kuhn mobile: 0410-728-389 illawarra and regional new south wales --- GNU/Linux/OpenSource Solutions and Alternatives 100% Microsoft Free - Reboot is NOT an option. Registered Linux User # 267497 --- Census Taker to Housewife: Did you ever have the measles, and, if so, how many? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] win- linux
Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:25:18 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. Is Knoppix what you are looking forit is Linux on a CD... /anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Thursday 16 Dec 2004 17:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. Try this link, it is all Live Linux CD's. They run on your Ram, don't touch your hard drive, auto configure your hardware, and give you a good taste of Linux. http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php -- Linux Counter number 359744. http://counter.li.org/ GnuPG Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xE94E2292 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 19:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. __ the Knoppix/Gnoppix range of distributions (and several others) run from a bootable CD - they don't touch your hard-drive at all - you can save settings to usb memory stick or a floppy. These include just about everything you need for everyday computer use, office, games, web browsing (and Building), scanning, graphics, etc, etc, etc. There are also some that loaded from in DOS or FAT32 partitions - don't know if they'll be OK on a NTFS: http://topologi-linux.sourceforge.net/ or http://www.phatlinux.com/ -- prm -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Thursday 16 December 2004 09:25 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. The Christmas 2004 issue of Linux Format arrive here in Oregon, USA, yesterday. Included were the usual 2 CDs and one is SUSE 9.2 LiveCD. I booted to it and had fun exploring a different flavor of Linux. It is just a live evaluation CD which means it cannot be installed to the hard drive. However it does mean you can run SUSE without it messing with your existing operating system. Julie Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] win- linux
On Thursday 16 December 2004 05:44 pm, julie wrote: | On Thursday 16 December 2004 09:25 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Is there any free program available to sample linux on a winxp | system. I thought winaxe might but it is for networked systems. | | The Christmas 2004 issue of Linux Format arrive here in Oregon, USA, | yesterday. Included were the usual 2 CDs and one is SUSE 9.2 LiveCD. | | I booted to it and had fun exploring a different flavor of Linux. It is | just a live evaluation CD which means it cannot be installed to the hard | drive. However it does mean you can run SUSE without it messing with your | existing operating system. | | Julie And, WHY would you want to? Seriously, I have SuSe 9.2 (full install) on one of my test boxes. HATE IT--but it is pretty to look at. e Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] windows - linux authentication
Hi, I have a mandrake 9.1 installed, and currently the system is configured that authentication happens against the /etc/passwd file on the local system. My linux pc is partly used as a fileserver for a couple windows XP 2K boxes that are in a WORKGROUP, no NT Domain. On all computers, the same accounts exist with the same passwords... however, if I put a file on the public drive on the linux, I always get the owner nobody:nobody on the linux system. Could anybody please give me a couple hints how I can convert the authentication that when I access a share with user1/password1, the linux system will recognize the user1/password1 ? Currently, even if I try to access \\linux\user1, mapping the drive with user1/password1, the linux system won't accept my login. Thanks in advance. Jan Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 02:18 pm, Jack wrote: What questions did you ask, and where? There were a few... most recently, I filled out the FTP request form for the 10.1 official ISO's. I filled this form out *twice* as nothing happened. I then sent email to them asking what had happened to my request - no response. This was not surprising to me, as every single time I have emailed them, I have received dead silence as a response. Must be you g. I got a reply back within three days (I'm limited to ~150Mb of downloads on this POS Direcway sat link, so I needed to download in chunks). -- 17:18:32 up 6:54, running Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586, kernel 2.6.8.1-12mdk Registered Linux user #324360 Neutrinos are into physicists. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 02:18 pm, Jack wrote: What questions did you ask, and where? There were a few... most recently, I filled out the FTP request form for the 10.1 official ISO's. I filled this form out *twice* as nothing happened. I then sent email to them asking what had happened to my request - no response. This was not surprising to me, as every single time I have emailed them, I have received dead silence as a response. Must be you g. I got a reply back within three days (I'm limited to ~150Mb of downloads on this POS Direcway sat link, so I needed to download in chunks). -- 17:18:32 up 6:54, running Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Official) for i586, kernel 2.6.8.1-12mdk Registered Linux user #324360 Neutrinos are into physicists. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:31:14 -0800 David E. Fox disseminated the following: And why are .com files even supported anyway? Those things are holdovers from CP/M, for god's sake. Actually, I've used them more than a few times just in the recent past...to clean infected Windows PC's! :-D There's a number of them here: http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/tools.list.html -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 09:52:37 up 2 days, 1:01, 7 users, load average: 0.15, 0.04, 0.01 +++ President Bush is asking Congress for $80 billion dollars to rebuild Iraq. And when you make out that check, remember there are two L's in Halliburton. -- David Letterman Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Sunday 21 November 2004 12:31 pm, David E. Fox wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:42:19 -0800 Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually windows will not be secure as long as .exe .com and .dll files can automatically run as root, despite microsoft trying to patent the sudo technology, yet disabling such a feature in XP. Thanks for letting me finish your sentence :) The kicker is that these apps all run in an unrestricted environment, and we all know about stuff like Outlook, which is configured to open attachments and run them before the user knows what has happened. But I've been out of the Windows world since 1993, although I do use Windows machines at work sometimes :(. And why are .com files even supported anyway? Those things are holdovers from CP/M, for god's sake. Where do you think DOS came from? -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:42:19 -0800 Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually windows will not be secure as long as .exe .com and .dll files can automatically run as root, despite microsoft trying to patent the sudo technology, yet disabling such a feature in XP. Thanks for letting me finish your sentence :) The kicker is that these apps all run in an unrestricted environment, and we all know about stuff like Outlook, which is configured to open attachments and run them before the user knows what has happened. But I've been out of the Windows world since 1993, although I do use Windows machines at work sometimes :(. And why are .com files even supported anyway? Those things are holdovers from CP/M, for god's sake. -- David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Sunday 14 Nov 2004 03:04, Jack wrote: Greg Meyer wrote: On Saturday 13 November 2004 07:31 pm, Jack wrote: It apparently has a way to allow changing the default browser *that works*! Changing the htm file association in 3.23 does not work... That's the main reason, but there are other minor ones... Changing the file association only works to determine what browser launches when you click on a link. The default browser that is called by a program when it needs one is set by the environment variable BROWSER. Type env at a prompt to see what it is currently set to. To set it temporarily to something else, you can use the export command export BROWSER=mozilla-firefox This will change it to firefox until the next login. I am still looking for the file to change to make it permanent system wide. Sorry, didn't work. Still defaults to Konqueror. The only program I can get to default to firefox is thunderbird (not surprisingly). - Jack What is the command to get konqueror back again? Simon. -- Linux Counter number 359744. http://counter.li.org/ Mandrake Linux release 10.0 (Official) for i586 Linux Kernal 2.6.3-7mdk GnuPG Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xE94E2292 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Six months ago I've purchased a 5550 (pretty expensive) and the drivers on Windows still have problems with the color tones. On MDK worked much better... despite of HP *sponsoring*. ;-) --- Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 12 Nov 2004 13:32, Greg Meyer wrote: Ever try to install Windows from scratch, track down drivers and get them installed without a network connection, then try to configure a wireless conection so that it co-exists nicely with more than one access point, and then try to apply the Windows updates before getting infected? It's not a picnic either. It took me something like 3 hours to get my printer installed under windows. It's an HP Deskjet, and I had the driver disk, but the * would *not* install. Eventually I worked out that it would not install because it was on a USB hub. Once I connected it directly to the box, it worked. Now how was I supposed to know that? There were no error messages - it just said there was no USB printer. And they call this user-friendly? The same printer installed perfectly under Mandrake, and serves two other boxes on the LAN, just by editing one single printerserver line in CUPS configuration. Guess which I prefer? Anne Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com = Best Regards, Mihai Sorin Dobrescu __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 Nov 2004 23:45, Dennis Myers wrote: On the other hand, a friend of mine at work was complaining about their home comp not giving access to the internet but the worm/virus that infected it would connect whenever it wanted. So I hand her a disk with MandrakeMove on it and tell her to boot from cdrom get on the net and download the antivirus file they need to clean the harddrive and get back on track. Guess what ? It worked like a charm. The Move found all their hardware, detected their internet connection, gave them access and allowed them to d/l the needed files. Thanks, Dennis. What a good idea to use a LiveCD to download Windows stuff. I hadn't thought of that! I have 98SE on a small hard drive (for occasional use), and it is not, nor ever will be, connected to the Internet. At the moment, if there is anything Windows I want to download, I do so in Linux, burn it to a CD-RW, replace the Linux hard drive with the Windows one (they are on separate caddies) and copy the stuff off the CD. Your idea is much more simple and much better. Keith Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Saturday 13 Nov 2004 07:09, Dobrescu Mihai wrote: He's right! But don't expect that Linux or any Linux distro was meant for your needs and blame it if it doesn't have all the features you need. Linux covers -let say - 98% of users needs in general, but if you were unlucky to be in the 2% do not be angry, just propose! There will be somebody to hear you, to join you and MDK is the place! But 2% with a specific need can be important. As Dobrescu hinted, if you can locate other groups with similar requirements it is often possible to get a project started. There may even be one around, somewhere, already, but in early stages. The offerings at first will not be as good as the one you are used to, but if you remember early windows versions they were not so good either. The trick lies in finding where like-minded people hang out, then joining their discussions. Good luck. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, JoeHill wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:55:46 -0500 Jack disseminated the following: Joe, you really need to read more carefully. I'll let you look at my initial post (at the top) again so you can figure it out for yourself... LOL! Okay, I shouldn't o' had that last hit of acid... Later folks, this list is a little too OT for me. -- Stew Benedict Mandrakesoft --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Hello Jack, Friday, November 12, 2004, 8:07:40 PM, Jack wrote: J Funny you should mention this... a few years back, I had a small J problem with Win98. I was still within the support period so I J called their tech support. Before you knew it, the fella wanted me J to re-install Windows. Being polite as I could be, I then told him J I would *not* re-install, and I needed to talk to a higher level J tech. First level techs often know very little beyond what their J computer screens are telling them about a specific problem. I'm familiar with that problem. By the time I call, I've often done almost everything the first level tech will suggest, and I try to escalate quickly. J Despite my politeness, he got really pissed off and I had to be J quite firm in requesting a higher level tech. Yep! J I think first level MS support is told to suggest re-installing if J nothing else shows up in their knowledgebase. This seems to apply to ALL levels of techs at M$. :-((( J Another time (and this really pissed me off), the Windows guy told J me it was my hardware, and the hardware guy told me it was Windows. Another familiar problem. Try conference calls, if you can arrange it. Makes for an interesting conversation. :-) Seems what we both seem to remember is getting pissed off at M$. :-)) -- rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Greg Meyer wrote: On Friday 12 November 2004 11:10 pm, Jack wrote: Good point Greg but I dislike "upgrading." I always prefer to do a clean install. My experience has been (up to now) that there are less problems this way. I tend to agree, especially when moving from point release to point release, but moving from 10.1CE to 10.1OE is more like applying security updates than a wholesale upgrade. Good point... maybe I should try this then. Can anyone tell me the *exact* urpmi command that will accomplish this? Mucho gratias Greg... thanks to your suggestion here, I did an upgrade installation of official and was successful. I am now running 10.1 official. Attempting to solve another problem that I reported in this thread (upgrading to KDE 3.3), I retried Randall's suggestion with Konquest and still got the C compiler error. I also tried the "urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --auto --auto-select --no-verify-rpm" that one user suggested, to no avail. I'm going to try and simply install KDE 3.3 over the 3.2 from the 10.1 official DVD and see what happens. I have the drive imaged and up to date, if that causes problems... - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Jack wrote: Attempting to solve another problem that I reported in this thread (upgrading to KDE 3.3), I retried Randall's suggestion with Konquest and still got the C compiler error. I also tried the "urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --auto --auto-select --no-verify-rpm" that one user suggested, to no avail. I'm going to try and simply install KDE 3.3 over the 3.2 from the 10.1 official DVD and see what happens. I have the drive imaged and up to date, if that causes problems... - Jack Well, it didn't work. I got about a gadzillion conflicts between existing 3.23 components and 3.3 equivalents. I am *still* open to suggestions on how to do this damn thing!!! - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Saturday 13 November 2004 05:17 pm, Jack wrote: Jack wrote: Attempting to solve another problem that I reported in this thread (upgrading to KDE 3.3), I retried Randall's suggestion with Konquest and still got the C compiler error. I also tried the urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --auto --auto-select --no-verify-rpm that one user suggested, to no avail. I'm going to try and simply install KDE 3.3 over the 3.2 from the 10.1 official DVD and see what happens. I have the drive imaged and up to date, if that causes problems... - Jack Well, it didn't work. I got about a gadzillion conflicts between existing 3.23 components and 3.3 equivalents. I am *still* open to suggestions on how to do this damn thing!!! If I were going to try this, I would probably boot into a differnet desktop environment like GNOME and through the remove software app remove all of KDE, then try to add it from the CD sources with urpmi. (remeber about arts and all of the libkde files also) If I may ask, why are you so anxious to upgrade to 3.3? The 3.3 packages shipped with Community were pretty buggy (3.3.1 was issued very soon after 3.3 was released) and kdepim in 10.1 is already at 3.3. Is there a particular feature you are interested in or are you just curious. -- /g Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Greg Meyer wrote: On Saturday 13 November 2004 05:17 pm, Jack wrote: Jack wrote: Attempting to solve another problem that I reported in this thread (upgrading to KDE 3.3), I retried Randall's suggestion with Konquest and still got the C compiler error. I also tried the "urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --auto --auto-select --no-verify-rpm" that one user suggested, to no avail. I'm going to try and simply install KDE 3.3 over the 3.2 from the 10.1 official DVD and see what happens. I have the drive imaged and up to date, if that causes problems... - Jack Well, it didn't work. I got about a gadzillion conflicts between existing 3.23 components and 3.3 equivalents. I am *still* open to suggestions on how to do this damn thing!!! If I were going to try this, I would probably boot into a differnet desktop environment like GNOME and through the remove software app remove all of KDE, then try to add it from the CD sources with urpmi. (remeber about arts and all of the libkde files also) I tried this once and it ended up only booting to ICE. (Don't ask me why!) If I may ask, why are you so anxious to upgrade to 3.3? The 3.3 packages shipped with Community were pretty buggy (3.3.1 was issued very soon after 3.3 was released) and kdepim in 10.1 is already at 3.3. Is there a particular feature you are interested in or are you just curious. It apparently has a way to allow changing the default browser *that works*! Changing the htm file association in 3.23 does not work... That's the main reason, but there are other minor ones... - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Saturday 13 November 2004 07:31 pm, Jack wrote: It apparently has a way to allow changing the default browser *that works*! Changing the htm file association in 3.23 does not work... That's the main reason, but there are other minor ones... Changing the file association only works to determine what browser launches when you click on a link. The default browser that is called by a program when it needs one is set by the environment variable BROWSER. Type env at a prompt to see what it is currently set to. To set it temporarily to something else, you can use the export command export BROWSER=mozilla-firefox This will change it to firefox until the next login. I am still looking for the file to change to make it permanent system wide. -- /g Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Greg Meyer wrote: On Saturday 13 November 2004 07:31 pm, Jack wrote: It apparently has a way to allow changing the default browser *that works*! Changing the htm file association in 3.23 does not work... That's the main reason, but there are other minor ones... Changing the file association only works to determine what browser launches when you click on a link. The default browser that is called by a program when it needs one is set by the environment variable BROWSER. Type env at a prompt to see what it is currently set to. To set it temporarily to something else, you can use the export command export BROWSER=mozilla-firefox This will change it to firefox until the next login. I am still looking for the file to change to make it permanent system wide. Sorry, didn't work. Still defaults to Konqueror. The only program I can get to default to firefox is thunderbird (not surprisingly). - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Thursday 11 Nov 2004 22:54, Jack wrote: 1 - It never did see my Canon D760 copier/printer. Canon gear is always hard, as they will not cooperate in releasing api details. However, it is sometimes possible to get things to work. Did you ask any specific questions about this? 2 - Couldn't get my nvidia video capture to work, despite help from experts like Anne Wilson. I'm not an expert - just someone who tries to help. I'm especially not an expert on nvidia - my one and only nvidia card disappoints me. 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. This is not a task for a newbie. 4 - I use voice recognition extensively (Dragon NS and IBM ViaVoice). I don't believe this even exists for Linux. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. You probably didn't check all the Configuration options late in the install. There is no reason why those could not have been persuaded to work. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. 6 - I spent the $170 or so bucks to become a silver club member, but not once have I received an answer from Mandrake when I found myself stuck. What questions did you ask, and where? I see great potential in Linux and I will maintain my dual-boot system, slowly learning to survive in Linux while waiting (and hoping) for the operating system to mature to a more usable state... I may sound harsh, Jack, but you have to realised that a) you're a newbie, and don't know enough to make things easy b) you've chosen a bleeding edge distro, so somethings have to be tweaked until things work correctly c) you're ambitious (good thing) and try things that you're not ready for (good, but risky) Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Wow, $170 paid for endless thousands of dollars of equivalent software, friendly support (evidence below) and admission into what in any other conceivable discipline would be a select group of longtimers who would not have the slightest thing to do with you. You offer them $170 bucks (I say offer, because you could have gotten it free) for untold thousands of hours of work (figure a dream people have been working on for 20 years) , and you can't get it figured out in WEEKS!!!, so you lash out at those very same people kind enough to accept you. I understand your frustration, I'm 2 months in, unsure if I'm with the right distribution, confused about a hundred things, and I have a silver membership. I still use my other boot up (I'm on it now, I needed a work document printed out in exact msword format), and have faded in my all out enthusiasm for MDK. But here it is, right here, all these people are willing to reply to you after you've insulted them. That's the difference. Any amount of research would have told you that the membership was flawed... but it's flawed because they don't have the money. True, and some of that lack comes from a lack of what we are accustomed to calling professionalism. Walk on to an American football field. Ask them if you can play, they'll 'say' no. (If you're lucky they'll be polite) You're place is in the stands. It's a multimillion dollar industry with access only to a priveledged few. Walk onto a rugby pitch, people will greet you, ask if you'd like to practice, talk to you about the game. It's an odd game, takes a while to adjust to. But you get to be involved, if you want, at just about any level you like. There is a difference. Performance in some ways yes. Software all over the place. But at the end of the day, people like Anne (whom I've never even read before) are the reason I'm going to stick it out. dave. Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 11 Nov 2004 22:54, Jack wrote: 1 - It never did see my Canon D760 copier/printer. Canon gear is always hard, as they will not cooperate in releasing api details. However, it is sometimes possible to get things to work. Did you ask any specific questions about this? 2 - Couldn't get my nvidia video capture to work, despite help from experts like Anne Wilson. I'm not an expert - just someone who tries to help. I'm especially not an expert on nvidia - my one and only nvidia card disappoints me. 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. This is not a task for a newbie. 4 - I use voice recognition extensively (Dragon NS and IBM ViaVoice). I don't believe this even exists for Linux. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. You probably didn't check all the Configuration options late in the install. There is no reason why those could not have been persuaded to work. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. 6 - I spent the $170 or so bucks to become a silver club member, but not once have I received an answer from Mandrake when I found myself stuck. What questions did you ask, and where? I see great potential in Linux and I will maintain my dual-boot system, slowly learning to survive in Linux while waiting (and hoping) for the operating system to mature to a more usable state... I may sound harsh, Jack, but you have to realised that a) you're a newbie, and don't know enough to make things easy b) you've chosen a bleeding edge distro, so somethings have to be tweaked until things work correctly c) you're ambitious (good thing) and try things that you're not ready for (good, but risky) Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 06:33, David Cormier wrote: There is a difference. Performance in some ways yes. Software all over the place. But at the end of the day, people like Anne (whom I've never even read before) are the reason I'm going to stick it out. I usually respond to these types of messages relatively harshly but I am trying refrain currently. However, for the record. I have a friend who bought a new computer back in January. I wanted to try to get him setup with Linux and had fully intended to install Mandrake. However, he is using a few different pieces of hardware that are the Win-only variety, including a winmodem and refused to spend a little extra money to upgrade to something decent. So, I installed WinXp, SP2 on his machine, setup anti-virus, firewall, spybot SD, spambot for spamfiltering, etc. pretty much everything except a privacy proxy for web browsing. He is low maintenance anyway, mostly web browsing and email so no big deal. Yesterday, he asked me to stop by because he was getting intermittent alerts from the anti-virus access scanner and his internet connection was slow. So, six months after a virgin install, he had managed to get infected with 3 trojans that had backdoor components and were communicating with a network out of British Telecom's range. Don't know when they got put there or how (he swore he didn't install anything or open any email attachments but I have my doubts about that), but they were adept enough to avoid detection by McAfee. (I am currently researching to see if I can figure out what they were) I had to find and remove them individually by checking network access with a packet sniffer. They were sitting in the windows/system32 directory and were marked hidden so that they wouldn't be easily found. So, when I see someone complain about Linux not being ready for primetime because it doesn't include something like voice recognition (nice but most people wouldn't classify that as a major necessity), and remember how WinXP got compromised within six months even with precautions having been taken, I really have to laugh out loud. With WinXP, I still can't be sure the user actually intalled or opened anything, there are simply too many security holes that could account for the trojans being there. -- Bryan Phinney Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Thursday 11 November 2004 05:54 pm, Jack wrote: But unfortunately, I still don't think it's ready for primetime and here's why: 1 - It never did see my Canon D760 copier/printer. Canon issues closed source windows only drivers and doesn't cooperate with Linux driver developers. Why is this Mandrake's fault. 2 - Couldn't get my nvidia video capture to work, despite help from experts like Anne Wilson. nvidia issues closed source windows only drivers and doesn't cooperate with Linux driver developers. Why is this Mandrake's fault. 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. This is a big job for a newbie, and there is no question you will have problems unless you know a lot about the underlying OS. This is exactly why Mandrakesoft is so hesitant to update major system components like this. Tell me, since you are comparing to windows, when you try to upgrade the windows GUI is it easier? 4 - I use voice recognition extensively (Dragon NS and IBM ViaVoice). I don't believe this even exists for Linux. You are right about this one. It is a frustration for me too. I always have to boot into WIndows to do some dictation. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. Sounds like a configuration problem. BTW, you could have upgraded to official by changing your urpmi sources to 10.1 official location and just use 'urpmi --auto-select' to bring it up. This would have saved all of you configuration settings, and probably would have avoided the problem. 6 - I spent the $170 or so bucks to become a silver club member, but not once have I received an answer from Mandrake when I found myself stuck. MandrakeSoft direct support happens on MandrakeExpert, not MandrakeClub. Club is a user community. I was also forced to install Bit Torrent to download the new ISO's after have waited for over 2 weeks (in vain) after my request for FTP access. (I *hate* peer to peer networks and I didn't appreciate being forced to use one, even though it did turn out to be pretty fast. I consider peer to peer a security risk.) Bittorrent is far from a security risk and is not a commercial app full of adware and crap like the windows networks. Bittorrent is actually quite secure, as you are initiating your download from a trusted source, and it only downloads what you ask it to. If you think this it is because you don't understand the technology. A mature operating system should not encounter these problems, I have a pretty standard Intel 2.6 gz system with 512 mb of ram, and Windows has never had a problem configuring my setup. A mature operating system that has support from hardware manufacturers should not have this problem. You have tried to do some things with Linux that are either very advanced or not supported by the people that made the hardware. I think you are generally being unfair. It seems you are complaing that Mandrake is not MS windows, doesn't work like MS windows. Well surprise, it is not. If you want MS windows, use MS windows. If you are willing learn how a different OS operates and deal with some issues that are not supported to get things working you'll have fun with Linux. To say it is not ready for prime-time because it can't do some very specific proprietary things is being hard. I can find a scenario that will cause similar problems for Windows. Is it fair then to say that Windows is not ready for prime-time. I think it would be fairer to say, that Mandrake isn't ready for me (yet), mor better yet, I am not ready for Mandrake. I see great potential in Linux and I will maintain my dual-boot system, slowly learning to survive in Linux while waiting (and hoping) for the operating system to mature to a more usable state... That's what I did for a year and I had a lot of fun learning. I hope you do too. I hope I didn't come across as a flame. I just find the level of expectation that people have to be astounding. Many people expect to be able to pop in the disk and have everything work out of the box without doing any configuration work, anything less than that is failure. Ever try to install Windows from scratch, track down drivers and get them installed without a network connection, then try to configure a wireless conection so that it co-exists nicely with more than one access point, and then try to apply the Windows updates before getting infected? It's not a picnic either. -- /g
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 15:23, Bryan Phinney wrote: On Friday 12 November 2004 06:33, David Cormier wrote: There is a difference. Performance in some ways yes. Software all over the place. But at the end of the day, people like Anne (whom I've never even read before) are the reason I'm going to stick it out. SNIP So, when I see someone complain about Linux not being ready for primetime because it doesn't include something like voice recognition (nice but most people wouldn't classify that as a major necessity), and remember how WinXP got compromised within six months even with precautions having been taken, I really have to laugh out loud. With WinXP, I still can't be sure the user actually intalled or opened anything, there are simply too many security holes that could account for the trojans being there. IBM ViaVoice speech recognition - released mid 200 sometime, unfortunately they withdrew it about a year later. I've heard rumours of its re-release but nothing yet - hopefully source code? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
snip Bryan Phinney wrote: snip So, when I see someone complain about Linux not being ready for primetime because it doesn't include something like voice recognition (nice but most people wouldn't classify that as a major necessity), and remember how WinXP got compromised within six months even with precautions having been taken, I really have to laugh out loud. With WinXP, I still can't be sure the user actually intalled or opened anything, there are simply too many security holes that could account for the trojans being there. Bryan is 100% correct. Linux in general and Mandrake specifically have come a long way in the last few years to the point that most day-today applications are supported and for the most part Linux supports quite a cross-section of hardware. On the security side, I think I have Bryan beat though. Grin! I had to do a Windows 2000 Pro install for a client's dual-boot system. In less than 20 seconds from connecting to his ISP, Windows was not only infected but also totally hosed. This particular ISP has hopped into bed with Microsoft - Big Time - and as a result, their network is also being hit with some of the nastiest crap that anyone has ever written, including a virus that can stay resident in DSL modems! Don't know if this is the first time it's ever happened or not, but the modem had to be replaced. As soon as the infected modem was disconnected from the PC's LAN port, the virus stopped infecting the PC. It was trying to reinfect the system each time the modem was accessed and typically succeeded before any PPPOE software was started and also before the Anti-virus software was fully loaded into RAM. Since the Anti-Virus program was unable to detect the modem or scan it, the only thing it could do was to detect the infected files. I had downloaded all the usual security, spyware and anti-virus goodies using Mandrake and installed them from a shared FAT32 partition, so Windows was as safe as it was going to get, and it only took 20 seconds. Not sure if that was a new record, but it's gotta be awful close! Other than some unsupported Scanners, Mopiers and 'P. of S.' Winmodems, Linux now supports most devices and those that aren't are either too old, too new or in the process of being done, with the exception of those being built specifically for Windows. One other thing to mention is that most of the hardware that IS supported by Linux, usually runs at least as good (if not much better) in Linux than it does in Windows. Just my $0.02 ! -- Lanman Registered Linux User #190712 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
snip 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. The sound problem you were having was due to either P'n'P, ACPI or APIC settings in the BIOS. I have two Asus P4P800's and had that problem with the first one for about 30 seconds, and not since then. Typically with Asus (AFAIK), all you have to do is to do a default install without changing anything in the BIOS except for the time/date and boot order, and it should work. When running the install and you get to the section for LILO, don't change the APIC or ACPI settings in there either. If that still doesn't work, try changing them one at a time in the BIOS with a reboot in between each change. Once you're logged in, make sure that your volume settings (in KDE(?)) and/or your speakers are turned up enough and make sure that alsa, arts and sound are enabled in services (in MCC) and also in KDE and then reboot again. HTH. -- Lanman Registered Linux User #190712 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:23:19 -0500 Jack disseminated the following: Don't hold back, Joe... Say what you feel!!! :-) Seriously though, you are right that perhaps I'm attributing to Linux what only exists in the Windows world. As a sidenote, I am quite diligent in Windows --- Ad Aware, SpyBot, and SpySweeper have pretty much kept my system clean, as well as AVG anti-virus. I have also disabled most of the Window services that try to dial out (Love that gpedit.msc!) Call me crazy if you will, but I'm not overly impressed by someone having to hack some obscure system file in order to prevent their OS from divulging info to it's mothership. To be honest, it would make me a little uneasy, from a security standpoint, that such a file even exists. If you can hack it, so can any teenager with a worm kit. It would be even more disturbing to me that I had to run 4 or 5 different 3rd party apps just so that my supposedly 'state of the art' OS doesn't become a zombie for some spammer. On another tack... would Bittorrent Windows version be as safe as it is in Linux? Open source is open source. I would not imagine the coders would be inclined to sneak spyware into the precompiled Win32 binaries, any more than they would otherwise. Only closed-source projects allow for that kind of irresponsibility. I guess I'm not built that way. I like WinXP; I like Linux. I could have listed what I don't like about XP here also but the caveats that I have for XP do not get in the way as much as they do for Linux. However, I *am* a newbie to the Linux world, and my percerption is that Linux is getting more and more robust as time goes on. God knows, I would love to see it become a serious player in the OS market. That would drive Windows prices down, make MS more open to users' needs, and destroy a de facto monopoly (which is never a good thing in the open market.) As an example of what I'm talking about, Rogers cable internet got a whole lot more responsive to the market once Bell came out with adsl. Besides, there are things in Linux that are superior to XP; it would be great to be able to go to one or the other as my needs dicated... No problem here, except perhaps that the only reason you can't do everything on Linux you can do on Windows is *because* of the MS monopoly and illegal business practices, and everything you can do on Linux is in spite of it, due to the largely unpaid efforts of a community of dedicated hackers. Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 08:52:53 up 100 days, 9:44, 5 users, load average: 0.05, 0.02, 0.00 +++ Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. -- Gandhi Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
--- David Cormier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, $170 paid for endless thousands of dollars of equivalent software, friendly support (evidence below) and admission into what in any other conceivable discipline would be a select group of longtimers who would not have the slightest thing to do with you. You offer them $170 bucks (I say offer, because you could have gotten it free) for untold thousands of hours of work (figure a dream people have been working on for 20 years) , and you can't get it figured out in WEEKS!!!, so you lash out at those very same people kind enough to accept you. I understand your frustration, I'm 2 months in, unsure if I'm with the right distribution, confused about a hundred things, and I have a silver membership. I still use my other boot up (I'm on it now, I needed a work document printed out in exact msword format), and have faded in my all out enthusiasm for MDK. But here it is, right here, all these people are willing to reply to you after you've insulted them. That's the difference. Any amount of research would have told you that the membership was flawed... but it's flawed because they don't have the money. True, and some of that lack comes from a lack of what we are accustomed to calling professionalism. Walk on to an American football field. Ask them if you can play, they'll 'say' no. (If you're lucky they'll be polite) You're place is in the stands. It's a multimillion dollar industry with access only to a priveledged few. Walk onto a rugby pitch, people will greet you, ask if you'd like to practice, talk to you about the game. It's an odd game, takes a while to adjust to. But you get to be involved, if you want, at just about any level you like. There is a difference. Performance in some ways yes. Software all over the place. But at the end of the day, people like Anne (whom I've never even read before) are the reason I'm going to stick it out. dave. Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 11 Nov 2004 22:54, Jack wrote: 1 - It never did see my Canon D760 copier/printer. Canon gear is always hard, as they will not cooperate in releasing api details. However, it is sometimes possible to get things to work. Did you ask any specific questions about this? 2 - Couldn't get my nvidia video capture to work, despite help from experts like Anne Wilson. I'm not an expert - just someone who tries to help. I'm especially not an expert on nvidia - my one and only nvidia card disappoints me. 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. I've done it in 15 minutes being really *DUMB* newbie... Install first the kdearts package (and one dependency) and all the rest after. (Because kdearts for KDE 3.2 was not in the distro first time...) BUT KDE 3.3 is not tested throughfully, so you may have many problems. Just stay .1-.2 versions back when you've got a stable installation if you're not prepared to tweak MDK. Learn first then react! This is not a task for a newbie. 4 - I use voice recognition extensively (Dragon NS and IBM ViaVoice). I don't believe this even exists for Linux. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet the Internet thing could be resolved. Look for that on cooker mailing list: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker , nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. You probably didn't check all the Configuration options late in the install. There is no reason why those could not have been persuaded to work. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. 6 - I spent the $170 or so bucks to become a silver club member, but not once have I received an answer from Mandrake when I found myself stuck. They are not for you only. I am not a club member (it is very complicated in my country to pay via banks...), but there were always somebody able to answer me. What questions did you ask, and where? I see great potential in Linux and I will maintain my dual-boot system, slowly learning to survive in Linux while waiting (and hoping) for the operating system to mature to a more usable state... I may sound harsh, Jack, but you have to realised that a) you're a newbie, and don't know enough to make things easy b) you've chosen a bleeding edge distro, so somethings have to be tweaked until things work correctly c) you're ambitious (good thing) and try things that you're not ready for (good, but
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 09:12:35AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). I know what you mean, I'm still on 9.1 cause I don't want to mess with upgrading on account of server stuff. Who on the list would win the prize for running the oldest version of MDK? Todd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Thursday 11 November 2004 4:54 pm, Jack wrote: Okay, I've spent a couple of months playing with Mandrake Linux (10.1 community) and here are my (unsolicited) impressions: 1 - I like the interface a lot. It is very customizable and, well... downright fun!!! 2 - It appears to be rock solid in the programs that it will install, and incidentally, there are tons of free programs available for it. 3 - It avoids that tedious Windows process of having to restart almost everytime you install a program. 4 - Being able to drop down into console mode and having the flexibility to further drop down into root is awesome! 5 - Download speeds seem to be better than in Windows. 6 - Security is better than in Windows and pushing the user to create a non-root account is a wise move. But unfortunately, I still don't think it's ready for primetime and here's why: 1 - It never did see my Canon D760 copier/printer. 2 - Couldn't get my nvidia video capture to work, despite help from experts like Anne Wilson. 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. 4 - I use voice recognition extensively (Dragon NS and IBM ViaVoice). I don't believe this even exists for Linux. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. 6 - I spent the $170 or so bucks to become a silver club member, but not once have I received an answer from Mandrake when I found myself stuck. I was also forced to install Bit Torrent to download the new ISO's after have waited for over 2 weeks (in vain) after my request for FTP access. (I *hate* peer to peer networks and I didn't appreciate being forced to use one, even though it did turn out to be pretty fast. I consider peer to peer a security risk.) A mature operating system should not encounter these problems, I have a pretty standard Intel 2.6 gz system with 512 mb of ram, and Windows has never had a problem configuring my setup. I see great potential in Linux and I will maintain my dual-boot system, slowly learning to survive in Linux while waiting (and hoping) for the operating system to mature to a more usable state... - Jack This isn't a remark to Jack - this is mostly to those who don't agree with what he said... Remember when you guys were new to Linux? I'm sure about 90% of you thought the same way. I know I did. There is a substantial learning curve to Linux - you cannot go to a software store and buy software for Linux (at least not that I've seen), and when you purchase a printer, video card, or any number of other computer related hardware, it's Windows that they support, not Linux. There are still lots of things that are lacking in Linux - mostly due to the fact that the companies who build the hardware get locked into providing just Windows drivers for it, and so it leaves it to people who have no real knowledge of the hardware to try to write drivers for it in Linux. Yes, Linux has come a long way - but it still doesn't have that easy installation and total all around support for hardware that Windows has. That being said, Jack, you ARE on the right track. Getting into the newsgroups and asking is definitely the way to go. For the most part, the Linux community is really good about sharing information, and there are solutions for most of the problems, whether it's just a simple hack or a total recompile. You will also ALWAYS step on someone elses toes with any opinion you make, so don't let that get to you. Everyone else has an opinion too, and it's just human to want to say your part. In my opinion, Linux HAS come a long way. It still has a long ways to go. That's why developers work on it constantly, updating, rewriting apps, etc., to make it better. When you think it is as good as it needs to be, well, you're in the same boat the Microsoft developers are in. See where that gets Windows users? Linux may never have the same ease of use that Windows has been incorporated with (for the most part), but therein lies its strength. Once you learn HOW to install something, you are that much more knowledgable for the next go round. You also don't have to worry about software installing itself over the network automatically, as is the case with Windows and worms. That's MY 2 cents worth... -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:53:56 -0600 Randall D. Hobbs disseminated the following: This isn't a remark to Jack - this is mostly to those who don't agree with what he said... Remember when you guys were new to Linux? I'm sure about 90% of you thought the same way. I know I did. I came into the Linux thing a little late, I must admit, but thinking back, I can remember only excitement at discovering something new, something that offered me a choice for once, without having to spend thousands of dollars or snagging 'warez'. I felt...liberated ;-) There is a substantial learning curve to Linux - Only for people who are 'used to' Windows, or who have more esoteric requirements than browsing the web, reading their e-mail, burning a CD, enjoying multimedia content, etc. Those that have little or no experience with computers show no difference in their 'learning curve'. The facts simply do not show the end user having any more difficulty, overall, with installing and using the Linux desktop. Mandrake, Suse, Xandros, Libranet, all offer desktop solutions that are consistently rated very high in terms of ease of use. Just read the reviews: http://distrowatch.com/ you cannot go to a software store and buy software for Linux (at least not that I've seen), and when you purchase a printer, video card, or any number of other computer related hardware, it's Windows that they support, not Linux. There are still lots of things that are lacking in Linux - mostly due to the fact that the companies who build the hardware get locked into providing just Windows drivers for it, and so it leaves it to people who have no real knowledge of the hardware to try to write drivers for it in Linux. Yes, Linux has come a long way - but it still doesn't have that easy installation and total all around support for hardware that Windows has. ...which is the crux of the response to the 'not ready for prime time'. As one would expect, such a characterization has some peoples' hackles up, eh? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 10:06:20 up 100 days, 10:58, 5 users, load average: 0.27, 0.07, 0.02 +++ President Bush is asking Congress for $80 billion dollars to rebuild Iraq. And when you make out that check, remember there are two L's in Halliburton. -- David Letterman Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 Nov 2004 13:32, Greg Meyer wrote: Ever try to install Windows from scratch, track down drivers and get them installed without a network connection, then try to configure a wireless conection so that it co-exists nicely with more than one access point, and then try to apply the Windows updates before getting infected? It's not a picnic either. It took me something like 3 hours to get my printer installed under windows. It's an HP Deskjet, and I had the driver disk, but the * would *not* install. Eventually I worked out that it would not install because it was on a USB hub. Once I connected it directly to the box, it worked. Now how was I supposed to know that? There were no error messages - it just said there was no USB printer. And they call this user-friendly? The same printer installed perfectly under Mandrake, and serves two other boxes on the LAN, just by editing one single printerserver line in CUPS configuration. Guess which I prefer? Anne Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 09:23 am, Todd Slater wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 09:12:35AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). I know what you mean, I'm still on 9.1 cause I don't want to mess with upgrading on account of server stuff. Who on the list would win the prize for running the oldest version of MDK? I've got a two 9.0 boxes running samba and a pdfwriting script here in the office. -- /g Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 16:41, Greg Meyer wrote: I know what you mean, I'm still on 9.1 cause I don't want to mess with upgrading on account of server stuff. Who on the list would win the prize for running the oldest version of MDK? I've got a two 9.0 boxes running samba and a pdfwriting script here in the office. I'm willing to wager there's still 7.2 servers out there...:) Me, I just took a (back-up) webserver apart that was running Slackware7.1.still in perfect health:) I plan on upgrading it to Slack10.0 nowdon't really like Mdk for server stuff (at least not outside the LAN); too much too losely preconfigured for my liking. -- Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 07:23, Todd Slater wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 09:12:35AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). I know what you mean, I'm still on 9.1 cause I don't want to mess with upgrading on account of server stuff. Who on the list would win the prize for running the oldest version of MDK? Todd My oldest is an 8.2 box with uptimes in the hundreds of days (usually between power outages). __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com -- Travis Crook Visions Beyond www.VisionsBeyond.com 208-478-7836 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Travis Crook wrote: On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 07:23, Todd Slater wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 09:12:35AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). I know what you mean, I'm still on 9.1 cause I don't want to mess with upgrading on account of server stuff. Who on the list would win the prize for running the oldest version of MDK? Todd My oldest is an 8.2 box with uptimes in the hundreds of days (usually between power outages). I can not match the old MDK versions - 9.2 was the first install of MDK for me. I do have a couple of old Redhat Installs though. (5.2 on a SparcStation II.) I tend to be slow to update - at least on servers. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. (By definition, security updates are fixes for something that is broke...) The desktop/laptop systems are another story. I always like to have at least one to play with! Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 00:01, et wrote: On Thursday 11 November 2004 17:54, Jack wrote: 4 - I use voice recognition extensively (Dragon NS and IBM ViaVoice). I don't believe this even exists for Linux. viavoice was included in the powerpack for version 7.2 and 8.0, and worked much better than the same time frame viavoice available for winders, and if you were lucky enough to have gotten it then, the same version still installs and works, however it was not 'free' software then, nor is it now. but I dictated this letter with it... ya shoulda asked... Et, How did you get those rpms to work? There should be some dependencies going awry there (gcc comes to mind) -- Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Just a quick note from a fairly fresh out of windows newbie (well, about 6 months). The reason why I think Mandrake is ready for prime time? I'm currently running a cooker install. My friend serving as my primary tech support walked me through setting up such, and didn't explain it to me. I actually learned what exactly that meant here on the list. I'm very impressed that my computer is running much better, and much happier on an unstable release like cooker, than it was while she was still running windows. Also the fact that most everything I've needed to get rolling, I've been able to mostly figure out using google, or asking you guys here on the list. My friend who's serving as tech support is mostly used for Frell, what did I mess up on my computer this time?! problems where for whatever reason, the computer doesn't continue to work correctly. That's happened maybe twice, at most three times, since I installed mandrake. The first of which was totally my fault, the most recent, we figure was due to cooker doing something funny. Also, the man pages are great. Once I learned how to read them without having to use the console window, I was a very very happy person. ^_^ Thanks to you guys on the list here for the trick of reading them using Konqueror (for those of you not familiar with this trick, you put man:/command into the address bar). I've been running an exclusively Mandrake box since I did the install back in May, and I'm proud to say, my computer is running a bajillion times better than my dad's XP piece of dren. He's infected with everything under the sun, and I think I've got him sold on letting me install Mandrake on his box for him... however, he wants me to get a new job before he'll let me do that for him. I figure if a newbie is more happy with an unstable release of mandrake than a stable release of windows, that's certainly got to say something big. ^_^ ~~ ^..^ ~~ I'm a gmail user! I'm still waiting on them to listen to my request to allow me to disable my reply-to field. If you get this message via a mailing list, please double check the to field before sending your reply. Thanks much! ^_^ ~~ ^..^ ~~ http://deathkitten.net Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind. ~Rudyard Kipling Several friends have asked me if I will again leave the country. In light of the failurea second timeto count all the votes, that won't be necessary. My country has left me. ~Greg Palast Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 11 Nov 2004 22:54, Jack wrote: Canon gear is always hard, as they will not cooperate in releasing api details. However, it is sometimes possible to get things to work. Did you ask any specific questions about this? Yes, I did, to no avail. The printer works off of a USB port. Installation sees it but can't do anything with it. The suggestion it gives is raw printer (which as you know means no printer driver). 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. This is not a task for a newbie. Well... yes Anne, I am a *Linux* newbie but I'm not a newbie to computers. I used to teach DOS courses. I used to consult in the Windows world. And finally, I used to assemble and sell PC's. I am able to follow most suggestions and understand what they're attempting to do. However, the suggestions *don't work,* to the surprise of experts like Randall. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. You probably didn't check all the Configuration options late in the install. There is no reason why those could not have been persuaded to work. All desired configuration options were checked. As mentioned above, I am not brain-dead when it comes to computers. The installation reported that *it couldn't find* my ethernet card, nor my sound device. What's really perplexing is that this wasn't a problem with 10.0 or 10.1 community. What questions did you ask, and where? There were a few... most recently, I filled out the FTP request form for the 10.1 official ISO's. I filled this form out *twice* as nothing happened. I then sent email to them asking what had happened to my request - no response. This was not surprising to me, as every single time I have emailed them, I have received dead silence as a response. I see great potential in Linux and I will maintain my dual-boot system, slowly learning to survive in Linux while waiting (and hoping) for the operating system to mature to a more usable state... I may sound harsh, Jack, but you have to realised that a) you're a newbie, and don't know enough to make things easy I certainly don't expect things to be easy but I do expect them to be doable. b) you've chosen a bleeding edge distro, so somethings have to be tweaked until things work correctly c) you're ambitious (good thing) and try things that you're not ready for (good, but risky) Tell me about it!!! That Linux image I have has saved my butt more than once. But how else do you learn if you don't try things? - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
David Cormier wrote: Wow, $170 paid for endless thousands of dollars of equivalent software, friendly support (evidence below) and admission into what in any other conceivable discipline would be a select group of longtimers who would not have the slightest thing to do with you. You offer them $170 bucks (I say offer, because you could have gotten it free) for untold thousands of hours of work (figure a dream people have been working on for 20 years) , and you can't get it figured out in WEEKS!!!, so you lash out at those very same people kind enough to accept you. Lash out??? Come on David... you need to be more diligent in your reading. I feel I was offering a fairly balanced critique. However, I am *not* a disciple (of Windows or Linux) so I don't get upset when someone critiques either one. And be aware that I have not used equivalent derogatory terms like windoze or some such when describing Linux, something that many have chosen to do when describing the other operating system. I understand your frustration, I'm 2 months in, unsure if I'm with the right distribution, confused about a hundred things, and I have a silver membership. I still use my other boot up (I'm on it now, I needed a work document printed out in exact msword format), and have faded in my all out enthusiasm for MDK. But here it is, right here, all these people are willing to reply to you after you've insulted them. That's the difference. Any amount of research would have told you that the membership was flawed... but it's flawed because they don't have the money. True, and some of that lack comes from a lack of what we are accustomed to calling professionalism. Once again, I have not insulted them. Perhaps you construe my reporting their lack of response to my emails as insulting but I assure you that it is the honest truth. I would at least appreciate these people saying that they do not offer support because they're too busy, etc. Now I am *not* talking about this mailing list. *These* people have been very supportive. Walk on to an American football field. Ask them if you can play, they'll 'say' no. (If you're lucky they'll be polite) You're place is in the stands. It's a multimillion dollar industry with access only to a priveledged few. Walk onto a rugby pitch, people will greet you, ask if you'd like to practice, talk to you about the game. It's an odd game, takes a while to adjust to. But you get to be involved, if you want, at just about any level you like. The computer software culture is not comparable to that of pro sports. A culture creates expectations based on generally-accepted values. Expecting support when you have put out money is part of the computer software culture. - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Bryan Phinney wrote: On Friday 12 November 2004 06:33, David Cormier wrote: There is a difference. Performance in some ways yes. Software all over the place. But at the end of the day, people like Anne (whom I've never even read before) are the reason I'm going to stick it out. I usually respond to these types of messages relatively harshly but I am trying refrain currently. However, for the record. I have a friend who bought a new computer back in January. I wanted to try to get him setup with Linux and had fully intended to install Mandrake. However, he is using a few different pieces of hardware that are the Win-only variety, including a winmodem and refused to spend a little extra money to upgrade to something decent. So, I installed WinXp, SP2 on his machine, setup anti-virus, firewall, spybot SD, spambot for spamfiltering, etc. pretty much everything except a privacy proxy for web browsing. He is low maintenance anyway, mostly web browsing and email so no big deal. Yesterday, he asked me to stop by because he was getting intermittent alerts from the anti-virus access scanner and his internet connection was slow. So, six months after a virgin install, he had managed to get infected with 3 trojans that had backdoor components and were communicating with a network out of British Telecom's range. Don't know when they got put there or how (he swore he didn't install anything or open any email attachments but I have my doubts about that), but they were adept enough to avoid detection by McAfee. (I am currently researching to see if I can figure out what they were) I had to find and remove them individually by checking network access with a packet sniffer. They were sitting in the windows/system32 directory and were marked hidden so that they wouldn't be easily found. So, when I see someone complain about Linux not being ready for primetime because it doesn't include something like voice recognition (nice but most people wouldn't classify that as a major necessity), Bryan, voice recognition saves me *hours and hours* of work in my line of business (which is teaching, which is "document-creation" oriented.) With WinXP, I still can't be sure the user actually intalled or opened anything, there are simply too many security holes that could account for the trojans being there. Bryan, good post and some valid observations. If you re-read my initial post, you will see that I mentioned that Linux appears to be more secure. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Is it more secure because it is inherently virus/trojan resistant, or is more secure because it is being largely ignored by the malicious hacker community? I suspect a combination of both. BTW, I appreciate the lack of a "harsh response." *Open* dialogue allows growth. "Witch hunting" has never been good for intellectual growth. - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
6 - I spent the $170 or so bucks to become a silver club member, but not once have I received an answer from Mandrake when I found myself stuck. I was also forced to install Bit Torrent to download the new ISO's after have waited for over 2 weeks (in vain) after my request for FTP access. (I *hate* peer to peer networks and I didn't appreciate being forced to use one, even though it did turn out to be pretty fast. I consider peer to peer a security risk.) I didn't catch the beginning of this thread but I really wanted to address this part right here. Your concern with as you put it peer to peer software is indicative of mainstream feelings that certain trade union groups encourage. However, the main point that really needs to be stressed is that Bit Torrent operates so differently from most peer to peer networks that it's really misleading to put it in the same catagory, and on top of that, for linux there are several utilities that will make it EASY to prevent the kind of kruft that slips into windows software. Some of this may be over simplified for you, but I want it to hit all the main topics to the point where people searching over questions like these will find it by any of the points. For starters, a peer to peer (p2p) network is named that because it uses distributed source files on many nodes to serve files to other nodes requesting them. The two main versions of this are the Napster / Kazaa style networks where any node serves files they own to anyone who requests them and the other is the freenet style network where the network itself distributes files out and nodes may not know what files they are serving. On top of that, there are different ways of finding files. Kazaa, for example, simply passes the request along and any node can answer it. Napster, on the other hand, had (I believe, if napster didn't others did) a central database that kept track of where things are on the network and directed requests. The reason people like you are wary of these types of peer 2 peer networks is because people introduce either misnamed or infected files and put them out. People download these trojans (in the classical, and perhaps viral sense of the word) and discover they either got the wrong files, files of low quality, or perhaps a virus or adware program bundled in. In fact, it became commonplace for software producers to directly bundle the spyware into their programs. The Kazaa desktop itself is full of crap. So how is Bittorrent different? Well, for starters bittorrent isn't a network for distributing many files. It's more like a protocol designed to set up impromptu networks for quickly distributing SINGLE files. You never have to worry about a bittorrent download resulting in something other than what you tried to download, because with bittorrent you already KNOW what you are trying to get, you just don't know where you might get each peice from. Here's a simplified, although hopefully fairly accurate, description of how it works. Pretend you want to make a copy of a thesis in the library. You put your stack of papers (it's a very very long thesis) in the copier and start copying. If you are stuck at the speed one copier can copy, it takes a fixed amount of time to copy the paper. However, if the library has additional copiers, you can take peices of your paper to each copier and start them working as well. You can reduce YOUR time by distributing the COPY time to the maximum bandwidth available, here the number of copiers. When you're done, you look at your copy and compare it the copy you started with. If it isn't the same, you can determine which copier malfunctioned and only recopy those peices. Bittorrent works the same way. Mandrakesoft only has to upload to you at a certain rate, but very likely you can download far faster than that. So you download from Mandrakesoft AND from H.J.Bathoorn AND from Amy AND from JoeHill AND from Anne Wilson AND from whoever because they are very nice people willing to upload to you. In exchange, you upload the peices you've already downloaded to David Cormier, Greg Meyer, and me. In this way, you are fully using your upload and download capacity (making sure you set reasonable limits to not completely hog the pipe for your whole home network!) to download as fast as possible. When you're done, everyone has a copy exactly the same as everyone else's, and Mandrakesoft has a much much lower bandwidth bill. This probably brings you to the but how do I know part of the download. Sure, I'm TELLING you it just works, but it's not like there's some magic program that uses very complicated math to determine if a file, to a reasonable certainty, is exactly the same as another file in a different location using well known advance hash algorithms that can express the contents of a file digest in a single string, up to 128 bits? Ahem. Well of course there is. Linux isn't about just blindly trusting people to do good in the
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Greg Meyer wrote: On Thursday 11 November 2004 05:54 pm, Jack wrote: 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. This is a big job for a newbie, and there is no question you will have problems unless you know a lot about the underlying OS. This is exactly why Mandrakesoft is so hesitant to update major system components like this. Tell me, since you are comparing to windows, when you try to upgrade the windows GUI is it easier? Well, yes it is. Of course, the alternate GUI's are not free like they are in Linux. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. Sounds like a configuration problem. BTW, you could have upgraded to official by changing your urpmi sources to 10.1 official location and just use 'urpmi --auto-select' to bring it up. This would have saved all of you configuration settings, and probably would have avoided the problem. Good point Greg but I dislike "upgrading." I always prefer to do a clean install. My experience has been (up to now) that there are less problems this way. 6 - I spent the $170 or so bucks to become a silver club member, but not once have I received an answer from Mandrake when I found myself stuck. MandrakeSoft direct support happens on MandrakeExpert, not MandrakeClub. Club is a user community. You know, this might have been part of my problem. Thanks for this information... Bittorrent is far from a security risk and is not a commercial app full of adware and crap like the windows networks. Bittorrent is actually quite secure, as you are initiating your download from a trusted source, and it only downloads what you ask it to. If you think this it is because you don't understand the technology. So I have learned in the last couple of days... A mature operating system should not encounter these problems, I have a pretty standard Intel 2.6 gz system with 512 mb of ram, and Windows has never had a problem configuring my setup. A mature operating system that has support from hardware manufacturers should not have this problem. You have tried to do some things with Linux that are either very advanced or not supported by the people that made the hardware. I think you are generally being unfair. It seems you are complaing that Mandrake is not MS windows, doesn't work like MS windows. Well surprise, it is not. If you want MS windows, use MS windows. If you are willing learn how a different OS operates and deal with some issues that are not supported to get things working you'll have fun with Linux. I *am* having fun with Linux (as I already stated in my original post). And I do not expect (nor want) it to be Windows. But when an expert gives you specific directions on how to do something, and it has worked for him, it *should work for me* also! I hope I didn't come across as a flame. I just find the level of expectation that people have to be astounding. Many people expect to be able to pop in the disk and have everything work out of the box without doing any configuration work, anything less than that is failure. Not me... I already have installed and removed Fedora, Knoppix (CD version), Slackware (now that was difficult!) and Mandrake. I returned to Mandrake because I found it best. (I would have tried Xandros or Lindows if I wanted a Windows clone.) - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Lanman wrote: snip 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. 10.0 had no trouble finding these 2, nor did the community version of 10.1. Luckily for me, I had imaged the drive beforehand, so I was able to go back to 10.1 community. The sound problem you were having was due to either P'n'P, ACPI or APIC settings in the BIOS. I have two Asus P4P800's and had that problem with the first one for about 30 seconds, and not since then. Typically with Asus (AFAIK), all you have to do is to do a default install without changing anything in the BIOS except for the time/date and boot order, and it should work. When running the install and you get to the section for LILO, don't change the APIC or ACPI settings in there either. If that still doesn't work, try changing them one at a time in the BIOS with a reboot in between each change. Once you're logged in, make sure that your volume settings (in KDE(?)) and/or your speakers are turned up enough and make sure that alsa, arts and sound are enabled in services (in MCC) and also in KDE and then reboot again. Thanks for this... next time I try official this is what I'll do... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:28:16 -0500 Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The computer software culture is not comparable to that of pro sports. A culture creates expectations based on generally-accepted values. Expecting support when you have put out money is part of the computer software culture. I was with you mostly, until this, Jack. Here we happily give money for the sport of Mdk, strange as it may seem. I, for one thank you for your donation, knowing that you will get with the spirit. Lee -- My new address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Current address will not work after December. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:35:47 -0500 Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or is more secure because it is being largely ignored by the malicious hacker community? Should have googled this one, Jack. Brace yourself. Lee Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 23:35, Jack wrote: Bryan Phinney wrote: .) With WinXP, I still can't be sure the user actually intalled or opened anything, there are simply too many security holes that could account for the trojans being there. Bryan, good post and some valid observations. If you re-read my initial post, you will see that I mentioned that Linux appears to be more secure. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Is it more secure because it is inherently virus/trojan resistant, or is more secure because it is being largely ignored by the malicious hacker community? I suspect a combination of both. No, its because windows is inherently unsafe. Don't forget the number of Linux servers out there on the internet - an obvious target for crackers, virus writers/etc but they don't fall over, why do you think that is? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/ Linux virii are around. Fortunately, because of the way Linux works they don't do much damage, and they don't spred easily. BTW, the other week I was asked to sort out a friend's computer, an old Dell. I found in excess of 120 bits that shouldn't be there - ads, etc. I advised (and carried out) a complete format and reinstall, and also put on Mandrake 10. Windows took nearly 2 bloody days to get all the drivers etc. installed - (no documentation about what his box contained), Linux 2.5 hours (including downloading/installing Linuxant drivers for his bloody winmodem). When I'd finished he asked about word-processing, I told him it was already on, graphics, mail, browsers, likewise. Went round yesterday and he was trying to get rid of a virus. He didn't like linux because he didn't want to bother with entering a password. THAT'S why virii spread MS have developed a culture that has actively encouraged an insecure environment, and done little to balance this. the recent XP service pack 2 did very little in the way of enhanced security, was over a year late, and created a significant number of problems for home users. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
JoeHill wrote: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:23:19 -0500 Jack disseminated the following: Don't hold back, Joe... Say what you feel!!! :-) Seriously though, you are right that perhaps I'm attributing to Linux what only exists in the Windows world. As a sidenote, I am quite diligent in Windows --- Ad Aware, SpyBot, and SpySweeper have pretty much kept my system clean, as well as AVG anti-virus. I have also disabled most of the Window services that try to dial out (Love that gpedit.msc!) Call me crazy if you will, but I'm not overly impressed by someone having to hack some obscure system file in order to prevent their OS from divulging info to it's mothership. To be honest, it would make me a little uneasy, from a security standpoint, that such a file even exists. If you can hack it, so can any teenager with a worm kit. It would be even more disturbing to me that I had to run 4 or 5 different 3rd party apps just so that my supposedly 'state of the art' OS doesn't become a zombie for some spammer. Actually, XP could learn from Linux to *force* users (insteading of just recommending) that users use a limited account to do their day-to-day computing. This would close a lot of the security holes. I guess I'm not built that way. I like WinXP; I like Linux. I could have listed what I don't like about XP here also but the caveats that I have for XP do not "get in the way" as much as they do for Linux. However, I *am* a newbie to the Linux world, and my percerption is that Linux is getting more and more robust as time goes on. God knows, I would love to see it become a serious player in the OS market. That would drive Windows prices down, make MS more open to users' needs, and destroy a de facto monopoly (which is never a good thing in the open market.) As an example of what I'm talking about, Rogers cable internet got a whole lot more responsive to the market once Bell came out with adsl. Besides, there are things in Linux that are superior to XP; it would be great to be able to go to one or the other as my needs dicated... No problem here, except perhaps that the only reason you can't do everything on Linux you can do on Windows is *because* of the MS monopoly and illegal business practices, and everything you can do on Linux is in spite of it, due to the largely unpaid efforts of a community of dedicated hackers. Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). Thanks Joe, I've enjoyed the discourse with you... - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Randall D. Hobbs wrote: This isn't a remark to Jack - this is mostly to those who don't agree with what he said... Remember when you guys were new to Linux? I'm sure about 90% of you thought the same way. I know I did. There is a substantial learning curve to Linux - you cannot go to a software store and buy software for Linux (at least not that I've seen), and when you purchase a printer, video card, or any number of other computer related hardware, it's Windows that they support, not Linux. There are still lots of things that are lacking in Linux - mostly due to the fact that the companies who build the hardware get locked into providing just Windows drivers for it, and so it leaves it to people who have no real knowledge of the hardware to try to write drivers for it in Linux. Yes, Linux has come a long way - but it still doesn't have that easy installation and total all around support for hardware that Windows has. I agree totally Randall. Perhaps I should have stated that it isn't Linux's fault that Canon doesn't provide a Linux driver for it's printer. It's a chicken and egg problem. As long as Linux is not used by the vast majority, drivers won't be provided, thereby causing many not to use Linux, etc. etc. etc. That being said, Jack, you ARE on the right track. Getting into the newsgroups and asking is definitely the way to go. For the most part, the Linux community is really good about sharing information, and there are solutions for most of the problems, whether it's just a simple hack or a total recompile. You will also ALWAYS step on someone elses toes with any opinion you make, so don't let that get to you. Everyone else has an opinion too, and it's just human to want to say your part. I'm a teacher, Randall. I have very thick skin. In my opinion, Linux HAS come a long way. It still has a long ways to go. That's why developers work on it constantly, updating, rewriting apps, etc., to make it better. When you think it is as good as it needs to be, well, you're in the same boat the Microsoft developers are in. See where that gets Windows users? If I thought things were hopeless in the Linux world, I would not keep it on my computer. My personal opinion is that the OS is *very close* to becoming a serious player. And as far as I'm concerned, this can happen none too soon... Linux may never have the same ease of use that Windows has been incorporated with (for the most part), but therein lies its strength. Once you learn HOW to install something, you are that much more knowledgable for the next go round. You also don't have to worry about software installing itself over the network automatically, as is the case with Windows and worms. Having said that, any more thoughts on my KDE 3.3 problem? grin - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 Nov 2004 17:00, Lee Wiggers wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:35:47 -0500 Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or is more secure because it is being largely ignored by the malicious hacker community? Should have googled this one, Jack. Brace yourself. Yet it has to be said that many problems with windows come from social engineering. Today I had one of those emails that says I have security problems in my windows setup and I must download the fix. I don't have a windows setup, and I wouldn't follow such a link if I did, but I will guarantee that a proportion of windows users, with the best of intentions, will do so. And this trick would work equally well with any linux users that don't understand the issues. The more our distros become easy to use without much technical knowledge, and the more we will have users that get caught by this sort of thing. This isn't a windows vulnerability, it's a human vulnerability. And if you've read SourceForge recently you'll know that it's already being tried. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 Nov 2004 21:18, Jack wrote: Canon gear is always hard, as they will not cooperate in releasing api details. However, it is sometimes possible to get things to work. Did you ask any specific questions about this? Yes, I did, to no avail. The printer works off of a USB port. Installation sees it but can't do anything with it. The suggestion it gives is raw printer (which as you know means no printer driver). Canon + multi-function device is sure to equal problems. I really don't know whether you stand any chance at all with that. FWIW, it was just such a problem with my printer, when I could not afford to replace it, that put off my uptake of linux for 2 years. 3 - Couldn't upgrade to KDE 3.3, despite having the CD for it and despite help from experts like Randall. I spent *weeks* on this. Nothing I tried worked, nor did any suggestions work. This is not a task for a newbie. Well... yes Anne, I am a *Linux* newbie but I'm not a newbie to computers. I used to teach DOS courses. I used to consult in the Windows world. And finally, I used to assemble and sell PC's. I am able to follow most suggestions and understand what they're attempting to do. However, the suggestions *don't work,* to the surprise of experts like Randall. I understand that - much the same background as I had - but although I've been running linux full-time for the last two years I would still approach that particular upgrade with trepidation. In fact, I'm still trying to decide whether to go for it. 5 - Most damning of all was my attempted upgrade to 10.1 official. I completely wiped my drive to do a clean install, and after everything was said and done, the official version could not find the internet, nor my onboard (Asus P4P800) sound card. You probably didn't check all the Configuration options late in the install. There is no reason why those could not have been persuaded to work. All desired configuration options were checked. As mentioned above, I am not brain-dead when it comes to computers. The installation reported that *it couldn't find* my ethernet card, nor my sound device. What's really perplexing is that this wasn't a problem with 10.0 or 10.1 community. I think others that have had similar problems have had either shared IRQs or USB problems. It can be a lengthy business trying to find what exactly is causing it. You must have met situations like that before. I remember having two windows computers, same specification, same configuration sitting next to each other in my office. One was a stable as a rock, the other crashed constantly. By the time we had finished we had changed every component in the box. We never did find out why. What questions did you ask, and where? There were a few... most recently, I filled out the FTP request form for the 10.1 official ISO's. I filled this form out *twice* as nothing happened. I then sent email to them asking what had happened to my request - no response. This was not surprising to me, as every single time I have emailed them, I have received dead silence as a response. I don't know anything about the procedure for FTP downloads. I do know that resources are scarce, so you may well have been in a queue. I also acknowledge that MandrakeSoft are not known for being world-class communicators. But that doesn't answer the questions I asked. I had been away from the list, so I do not know what questions you have asked, nor what information you have provided for troubleshooting. I see great potential in Linux and I will maintain my dual-boot system, slowly learning to survive in Linux while waiting (and hoping) for the operating system to mature to a more usable state... I may sound harsh, Jack, but you have to realised that a) you're a newbie, and don't know enough to make things easy I certainly don't expect things to be easy but I do expect them to be doable. They are, believe me. b) you've chosen a bleeding edge distro, so somethings have to be tweaked until things work correctly c) you're ambitious (good thing) and try things that you're not ready for (good, but risky) Tell me about it!!! That Linux image I have has saved my butt more than once. But how else do you learn if you don't try things? There are black days when you feel you will never solve the problem. And sometimes that *is* the problem. I had one here that I struggled with for almost two months, and it has driven me wild. I went into hospital for a couple of days, and solved the problem within 48 hours of getting home. To run linux well you need to want to understand it - and I think you do. There are plenty of people willing to help you, but you need to have a streak of cussedness as well. Meanwhile - has anyone pointed you to the community TWiki? If not, follow the link in my sig and have a good browse around. There's lots of info there, and I'm sure some of it will help
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Lee Wiggers wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:28:16 -0500 Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The computer software "culture" is not comparable to that of pro sports. A culture creates expectations based on generally-accepted values. Expecting support when you have put out money is part of the computer software culture. I was with you mostly, until this, Jack. Here we happily give money for the sport of Mdk, strange as it may seem. I, for one thank you for your donation, knowing that you will get with the spirit. Lol... thanks Lee. I was a bit concerned putting out this post (even though I felt it was fair) but the users on this list have proved themselves to be a classy lot... - Jack
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 Nov 2004 21:50, Jack wrote: I *am* having fun with Linux (as I already stated in my original post). And I do not expect (nor want) it to be Windows. But when an expert gives you specific directions on how to do something, and it has worked for him, it *should work for me* also! Probably / possibly / maybe not. Don't forget the permutations of hardware, software, user expertise - and that d awful thing that we did when we took our eyes of the ball ;-) Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 01:56 pm, Jack wrote: Actually, XP could learn from Linux to *force* users (insteading of just recommending) that users use a limited account to do their day-to-day computing. This would close a lot of the security holes. Actually windows will not be secure as long as .exe .com and .dll files can automatically run -- When a citizen gives his suffrage to a man of known immorality he abuses his trust; he sacrifices not only his own interest, but that of his neighbor, he betrays the interest of his country. --Noah Webster. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
Travis Crook wrote: On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 07:23, Todd Slater wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 09:12:35AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). I know what you mean, I'm still on 9.1 cause I don't want to mess with upgrading on account of server stuff. Who on the list would win the prize for running the oldest version of MDK? Todd My oldest is an 8.2 box with uptimes in the hundreds of days (usually between power outages). One old box of mine has MD8.1 working just fine. Though I have perfectly usable backups, it just goes on performing and I have never yet had to use them. This box wouldn't really run todays OS's. John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 16:35, Jack wrote: So, when I see someone complain about Linux not being ready for primetime because it doesn't include something like voice recognition (nice but most people wouldn't classify that as a major necessity), Bryan, voice recognition saves me *hours and hours* of work in my line of business (which is teaching, which is document-creation oriented.) I am being comparitive, just as you were. Your subject matter was that Mandrake was not ready for primetime. I was merely making the observation that VR software would not fall into the category of primetime in my lexicon. In my view, having a secure operating system is a requirement for primetime while having voice recognition software is not. YMMV, but I have a feeling, at least from this list, that most Linux users would be more apt to agree with my assessment. Bryan, good post and some valid observations. If you re-read my initial post, you will see that I mentioned that Linux appears to be more secure. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Is it more secure because it is inherently virus/trojan resistant, or is more secure because it is being largely ignored by the malicious hacker community? I suspect a combination of both. The first Internet worm that I am aware of that spread in the Wild was the worm released in 1988 by Robert Tappan Morris. It was written and did infect Sun and VMX machines running 4 BSD Unix. That being said, I don't think that popularity of OS has much of anything to do with successful virus writing and targeting compared to the ease of affect of creating a successful virus or worm. I do agree that the malicious hacker community appears to be largely ignoring Linux, however, Unix has been around for longer than Windows, it was also the first computer system infected by a worm, and many of the same design features and software are available and working on both Linux and Unix systems. They also share some of the same vulnerabilities, such as they are. In my view, much fewer than for some other OS's that will remain nameless. That having been said, it seems to me that the malicious virus writing community is largely ignoring Linux because the effort required to write for Linux is immense while the likely rewards due to the secure design and rapid response are low. They, just like you and I, tend to focus their efforts to get the biggest bang for their bucks. Just so happens that a successful Linux virus would have a huge effect on the Internet, some major corporations, etc. but it would be extremely difficult to successfully pull it off and the OS community would likely nullify the effects as soon as it was discovered. Thus, the more successful the virus, the shorter lasting it would be. I have seen nothing yet to convince me that any virus writer or malicious hacker would refrain from the opportunity to bring Google down, if they were able to do so. BTW, I appreciate the lack of a harsh response. *Open* dialogue allows growth. Witch hunting has never been good for intellectual growth. Well, one last point that I would make. Voice recognition software is a specialized application that has, at best, a very small audience as its target. The same reason that manufacturers ignore Linux might also account for the dearth of voice recognition software, in general, and especially for Linux. Couple to that the fact that much of Linux software is open source and much of that is free, and you see yet another benefit of Linux that might account somewhat for the lack of a package. It might be worth it to you to accept Digital Rights Management, closed source, proprietary software methods and other drawbacks of the modern commercial software industry in order to have VR software that works. It would not be for most of the people that use Linux. This does tend to limit the number of people that might be interested in producing such an application. Add to that the general lack of good open source driver support from hardware manufacturers, including for sound cards, with audio input capability and you have yet another limiting factor. We all have to make choices and the nature of choices means sometimes making sacrifices. This is probably one of those sacrifices. If you are as software agnostic as you have said, then you are probably not in the mood to make sacrifices in order to gain the (perhaps marginal to you) benefits of Linux. But, Open Source is all about choices and if Windows works better for you, I do not have any personal stake in you using Linux. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost -- Bryan Phinney Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 16:35, Jack wrote: So, when I see someone complain about Linux not being ready for primetime because it doesn't include something like voice recognition (nice but most people wouldn't classify that as a major necessity), Bryan, voice recognition saves me *hours and hours* of work in my line of business (which is teaching, which is document-creation oriented.) I am being comparative, just as you were. Your subject matter was that Mandrake was not ready for primetime. I was merely making the observation that VR software would not fall into the category of primetime in my lexicon. In my view, having a secure operating system is a requirement for primetime while having voice recognition software is not. YMMV, but I have a feeling, at least from this list, that most Linux users would be more apt to agree with my assessment. Bryan, good post and some valid observations. If you re-read my initial post, you will see that I mentioned that Linux appears to be more secure. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Is it more secure because it is inherently virus/trojan resistant, or is more secure because it is being largely ignored by the malicious hacker community? I suspect a combination of both. The first Internet worm that I am aware of that spread in the Wild was the worm released in 1988 by Robert Tappan Morris. It was written and did infect Sun and VMX machines running 4 BSD Unix. That being said, I don't think that popularity of OS has much of anything to do with successful virus writing and targeting compared to the ease of affect of creating a successful virus or worm. I do agree that the malicious hacker community appears to be largely ignoring Linux, however, Unix has been around for longer than Windows, it was also the first computer system infected by a worm, and many of the same design features and software are available and working on both Linux and Unix systems. They also share some of the same vulnerabilities, such as they are. In my view, much fewer than for some other OS's that will remain nameless. That having been said, it seems to me that the malicious virus writing community is largely ignoring Linux because the effort required to write for Linux is immense while the likely rewards due to the secure design and rapid response are low. They, just like you and I, tend to focus their efforts to get the biggest bang for their bucks. Just so happens that a successful Linux virus would have a huge effect on the Internet, some major corporations, etc. but it would be extremely difficult to successfully pull it off and the OS community would likely nullify the effects as soon as it was discovered. Thus, the more successful the virus, the shorter lasting it would be. I have seen nothing yet to convince me that any virus writer or malicious hacker would refrain from the opportunity to bring Google down, if they were able to do so. BTW, I appreciate the lack of a harsh response. *Open* dialogue allows growth. Witch hunting has never been good for intellectual growth. Well, one last point that I would make. Voice recognition software is a specialized application that has, at best, a very small audience as its target. The same reason that manufacturers ignore Linux might also account for the dearth of voice recognition software, in general, and especially for Linux. Couple to that the fact that much of Linux software is open source and much of that is free, and you see yet another benefit of Linux that might account somewhat for the lack of a package. It might be worth it to you to accept Digital Rights Management, closed source, proprietary software methods and other drawbacks of the modern commercial software industry in order to have VR software that works. It would not be for most of the people that use Linux. This does tend to limit the number of people that might be interested in producing such an application. Add to that the general lack of good open source driver support from hardware manufacturers, including for sound cards, with audio input capability and you have yet another limiting factor. We all have to make choices and the nature of choices means sometimes making sacrifices. This is probably one of those sacrifices. If you are as software agnostic as you have said, then you are probably not in the mood to make sacrifices in order to gain the (perhaps marginal to you) benefits of Linux. But, Open Source is all about choices and if Windows works better for you, I do not have any personal stake in you using Linux. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost -- Bryan Phinney Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 04:26 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 12 Nov 2004 21:50, Jack wrote: I *am* having fun with Linux (as I already stated in my original post). And I do not expect (nor want) it to be Windows. But when an expert gives you specific directions on how to do something, and it has worked for him, it *should work for me* also! Probably / possibly / maybe not. Don't forget the permutations of hardware, software, user expertise - and that d awful thing that we did when we took our eyes of the ball ;-) Anne On the other hand, a friend of mine at work was complaining about their home comp not giving access to the internet but the worm/virus that infected it would connect whenever it wanted. So I hand her a disk with MandrakeMove on it and tell her to boot from cdrom get on the net and download the antivirus file they need to clean the harddrive and get back on track. Guess what ? It worked like a charm. The Move found all their hardware, detected their internet connection, gave them access and allowed them to d/l the needed files. Sweet, I told her now you know why I like linux and MandrakeLinux in particular She said she did and her brother-in-law was having a similar problem so she gave him the disk to try out linux cause he is sick of winders and looking for a change. Yess! One computer at a time and on some days maybe two at a time. : )) -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:45:36 -0500 Ryan Steffes disseminated the following: trade union groups Excellent explanatory post, very good description of Bittorrent. However, I don't know if would quite characterize the RIAA and MPAA as 'trade unions', except perhaps as in the Jimmy Hoffa/Mafia way ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:44:36 up 100 days, 19:36, 7 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 +++ The struggle between people and capital is now an epic struggle between life and death. -- Vandana Shiva, World Social Forum, January 16, 2004 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Friday 12 November 2004 08:23 am, Todd Slater wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 09:12:35AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: Best of luck in your future efforts with Mandrake, remember we're always here to help (though, running 9.2 still, I've been about as useful as tits on a bull around here of late...). I know what you mean, I'm still on 9.1 cause I don't want to mess with upgrading on account of server stuff. Who on the list would win the prize for running the oldest version of MDK? Todd I'm still running 9.0 here. It does everything I want it to. -- Chris Registered Linux User 283774 http://counter.li.org 5:47pm up 8 days, 22:13, 2 users, load average: 0.77, 0.66, 0.42 That unit is a woman. A mass of conflicting impulses. -- Spock and Nomad, The Changeling, stardate 3541.9 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:08:53 -0500 Jack disseminated the following: I agree totally Randall. Perhaps I should have stated that it isn't Linux's fault that Canon doesn't provide a Linux driver for it's printer. It's a chicken and egg problem. As long as Linux is not used by the vast majority, drivers won't be provided, thereby causing many not to use Linux, etc. etc. etc. Actually, it's a little more *deliberate* than that. MS has actually been found to have stifled cross-platform compatibility in many many many cases, even going so far as to force hardware vendors to sign illegal contracts which bind them only to MS. This ain't one o' those 'invisible hand of the market' Adam Smith things, this is more of a 'you wouldn't want anything to happen to your little hardware company now, would you?' type of deal. I think the US Justice Department called it 'illegal business practices' or something like that, but of course they're well known for prosecuting baseless cases against alleged 'racketeers' like John Gotti ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:48:29 up 100 days, 19:40, 7 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.01 +++ The rich control all the businesses, the newspapers and everything else. But they can no longer control the people. -- Margarita Mendoza, street vendor, Venezuela Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:28:16 -0500 Jack disseminated the following: And be aware that I have not used equivalent derogatory terms like windoze or some such when describing Linux Would there be a reason to do such a thing? As far as 'Windoze' goes, or 'Internet Exploder', or 'Outhouse', these derogatory terms have been well earned, and deservedly applied. M$ has exploited the ignorance of the 'average' user for decades, allowed the Internet to become a cesspool of spam and other garbage with its half-witted approach to security, engaged in illegal business practices, made a serious effort, with Exploder and Outhouse, at breaking every 'Net standard in existence, and is now trying to patent those broken standards (?!). Linux? A guy in Finland and GNU put together an OS that in less than a decade has reinvigorated the tech industry, sustained open standards for cross-platform compatibility, come close to building a home desktop OS that will kick MS's ass, and all for...free (mostly). If there's an insult fitting that description, I'd really like to hear it. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:59:35 up 100 days, 19:51, 7 users, load average: 0.03, 0.07, 0.01 +++ When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:00:17 + Lee Wiggers disseminated the following: or is more secure because it is being largely ignored by the malicious hacker community? Should have googled this one, Jack. Brace yourself. ROFL! Yep: http://securityfocus.com/columnists/188 -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 19:12:35 up 100 days, 20:04, 7 users, load average: 0.07, 0.07, 0.01 +++ The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people -- Noam Chomsky Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:47:57 -0500, JoeHill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:45:36 -0500 Ryan Steffes disseminated the following: trade union groups Excellent explanatory post, very good description of Bittorrent. However, I don't know if would quite characterize the RIAA and MPAA as 'trade unions', except perhaps as in the Jimmy Hoffa/Mafia way ;-) It was the most polite description I could could force myself to use. Evil thought police bastards seemed too Linux fanatic to me, although more accurate. Ryan Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake Linux not yet ready for primetime
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:56:52 -0500 Jack disseminated the following: Actually, XP could learn from Linux to *force* users (insteading of just recommending) that users use a limited account to do their day-to-day computing. This would close a lot of the security holes. ROFLMAO! Okay, yer not serious, right? XP, by default, on a clean install, makes the 1st user an *administrator*. You got it bass ackwards, d00d, it was the other way around. Windows finally caught up with *nix by actually making it a bit easier for the user to create 'limited' accounts, before that you had to be a power user to even *know how to create limited accounts*. XP doesn't 'force' anything of the sort. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 19:18:56 up 100 days, 20:10, 7 users, load average: 0.11, 0.15, 0.06 +++ He who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved. -- Psalm 15 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
