Re: [RCSE] 6 volt battery for retreiver
If you're getting a new retriever,or changing the motor, it seems like a 12V wind is in order. I wonder if there isn't a way to play with the existing windings to accomplish the same thing. On a slightly related topic, I've discovered that for winding line onto the winch at a reasonable speed, at least on a 12V wind, a battery charger is nice and slow. Since the charger is probably current limited, it might work for the usual 6V wind as well. To tell the truth I don't recall which setting on the charger I used, 2 amp or 10 amp at 12V, or the 6V setting. Probably if you lay out hundreds of yards of line in the grass it won't have enough oomph. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Chicago Style wing?
Just blew up a wing on my Chicago Style. Wondering if anyone has a set of wings for this glider. Particularly if the spoiler bay stops somewhat short of the end of the spar tube instead of extending past it. The wing failed about 2/3 of the way out, at the end of the spoiler bay. Thanks, Lincoln RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Gordy- Logic without limits.....or I couild hae read the article in context:-)
Just read the article. To some extent, I find myself agreeing (did I write that? pass the Risperdal!). However, just because Gordy and I succumb to tempatation when we have an electric glider* that is getting low, doesn't mean other people do. If you have the strength of will to ignore that nice power switch after the first climb is over, you can ignore what he said. But I'll admit that when there's a motor in the glider I usually won't fight out the last 50 or maybe even 100 feet. And I definitely will with an unpowered glider. So there go all those fun saves. (I was told that on a 58 minute flight (or was it the 60 minute flight??) I was down to 20 feet at 3 minutes. I thought it was 40, but that's another story. Low enough with a 25 year old 2 meter. (hmm... is this the Gordy bragging disease too?) We have a bunch of people flying electric gliders in our club. Some of them even come home with vinyl/brass/particle board plaques sometimes. Some of them have houses in structural overload from hanging the plaques on the wall. However, we also have a guy who is trying to start an electric event which involves old hlg's and vertical climbs. He very seldom talks about the power off part of the flight. This guy has acquired my old Chrysalis. It's very amusing to watch him launch, but it ain't soaring. He can get lots of exciting vertical drag racing because the flights don't last long. The model is, I think, two or three ounces overweight, which is a lot on a Chrysalis. Anyway, Gordy mentions an automatic motor shutoff. I think this will emphasize motor power even more, because now you have to be going Mach 0.5 at motor shutoff so you can get another 1000 feet or so. Therefore it needs to link in to activate flaps or spoilers for 5 seconds or something. (Perhaps activate spoilers for first 30 seconds of flight above 500 feet? Total energy probe?) Once these little details are worked out, I don't see why Gordy shouldn't then advocate using a similar system with a releasable towhook on winch launches. That'll make Histarter happy too. (for those of you who don't know my last reference, your ignorance is bliss) *Sailplanes are for people with bigger egos than mine. Gliders can go up to, including, sometimes, 40 size power trainers that happen to be dead stick. Gordy wrote: Or you could have posted me directly to discuss it such a fun topic :-) Its been quite a while since I wrote that article which is more a review of the programmable altitude priority motor cut off switchbut I play this game :-) The context of the article is replacing winch launches.. snip One more time because I know that motor heads who have found a sailplane will fit motors will want to go off on how what they do is good (and it IS by the way) but that has nothing to do with the context of the article...replacing winch launches with electric motor launches. So with a programmable altitude shut off switch, TD pilots could have the smallest and cheapest possible motor/prop/gearbox/controller/ battery, versus electric sailplane events where the motor package is priority. snip RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Gordy- Logic without limits....The beauty of Limits...in the year 2424
Actually the Cool thing about the PROGRAMABLE motor cutoff is that it includes the things you are looking for. The CD decides the alt that morning of the contest and ALL shut down at the same time, regardless of motor, prop, battery config. ALL start at exactly the same height and all launch at the exact same time. The Device also tracks the fliight which can be downloaded...as in tracks it whole flight altitude...if someone cared. MOM as close as its going to get...yet still with the freedom to chose airframes of taste and pocket book. Gordy Actually, you missed it. It does NOT include all the things I'm looking for. Ever hear of kinetic energy? The event will become even more of a power race than it is. In order to coast, after shutdown, from 500 feet to the outer limits of visibility, competitors will put an enormously powerful motor on so that at shutdown, the glider is going very fast. 100 mph would be worth something like 300 feet, and 150 mph would be worth something like twice that. I've already seen a 100 mph electric glider. So unless you put something in to prevent climb, you've got an arms race. Altitude readings at high speed are going to be all messe up anywya, unless everyone is required to have an officially calibrated pitot-static setup. Or maybe just a long trailing hose? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Actually, you missed it
Gordy, It's still a contest EVEN IF YOU, THE INFAMOUS GORDY, ARE NOT FLYING IN IT! The guys I know are not into playing loopholes. They just like to fly electric sometimes. At least two of us are LSF Level 4, and we didn't use electric motors in our gliders for that. My electric model weighs about the same as it did as a pure glider with the older gear when it was made. It takes 30 seconds to get to 200 or 300 feet. My fingers are tired. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *In the Year 2424* *When we can't use winches or high starts any more...TD sailplaners will not be interested in bigger motors, because we were never interested in any motors. And if you actually flew contests you'd find that the dreaded 'they' don't exist, there is only us guys, pals interested in flying together and trying to do the task well.* *They you know those other guys, not me and you who would do anything to win, would find any loop hole to win.don't exist...if they did.. I would have MET them, by now. They few who got lured by the dark side, hoping to use loopholes to win instead of practice, and study to win, don't.* ** *This is the kind of thinking that got 'electric powered sailplanes' where they are today. Guys more interested in the power packages than the soaring part, where the power package is more important than learning to read air, use air and make landings, where the power package is the primary focus in the model.* ** *One more time, the only reason a TD guy would ever put a motor in his plane at all is if he couldn't get his sailplane to altitude with any other wayin the year 2424.* ** *Lincoln, I'm sorry that you know and fly with so many guys interested in playing the loopholes rather than sharing the fun with friends.,,I guess I haven't flown with any of your flying buddies if they are prone to win at any cost.* ** *And by the wayfor the time being we can still use winches and hi starts, so lets not worry too much about your friends trying to use the rules to get an edgewe have a few years to work out the details of using electric motors in the noses of sailplanes, instead of using winches or high starts.* * Gordy* I ficient used cars http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] YOU can break Carbon rod for, stab
It's been pointed out to me that my post in reply to a message from Bill Wingstedt could be read as actually meaning to call him an idiot. I believe a close reading will reveal that I was agreeing with his brass tube/carbon rod trick and complimented him by asking him to make a couple of them for me. However, I can see how it might not look like that. So I want to make clear that I have no negative opinions about Bill, haven't met him, and agree with his post. Ok, maybe I have the negative opinion that he shouldn't call himself an idiot. This isn't the only time where I've been called on something like this, so I thought I'd better make sure that there were no hard feelings where such were not meant. (The other time I remember was on a bicycling list where people had a discussion about whether some kinds of plastic water bottles were toxic. I asserted that only organic goat skins were safe for water, and that vegans were out of luck. Someone I knew actually had a hard time deciding if I was serious. I wasn't.) -Lincoln ravaging engineer who has lost his horde RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Tech question for the guys that know
That may be overkill, if the 1/8 was almost strong enough. Assuming that the wall is pretty thick, 1/4 would be 8X as strong and 16X as stiff, if I'm not mistaken. I wonder if the problem is that the rod is not very strong crosswise, so if there's a hint of a sharp edge, maybe it will crunch. A steel tube might be a good compromise, though the yield strength, unless you go pretty high tech, will be maybe half or less that of music wire. Presumably the diameter would make up for that, given the right wall thickness, etc. (I'm assuming you'd use a little piece of 4130 or something from Aircraft Spruce) I wonder if one glued short lengths of brass tubing over the carbon at the appropriate places if that wouldn't help keep local loads from messing it up. Especially if you ground the edges to a taper. Or maybe that's just too much trouble. The 1/4 carbon might weigh 7 grams or so if it was 4 long.. A 1/8 steel rod would weigh about the same for the same length. The carbon would be much stiffer, of course. And if you loaded it carefully, with only smooth edges, a heck of a lot stronger. However, assuming a 24 stab with 100 square inches or so, the 1/8 joiner on the tail would stand up to an airspeed comparable to that of a 1/2 steel rod of the same yield strength on the wing. However, music wire tends to have a really high yield strength. (plus or minus a lot depending on design details) : [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, I have used 1/8 cf rod for stab axles, and had them break. This was on my Yardbird design, 130. I went back to steel rather than try to go to a bigger tube. My latest will use 1/4 cf tube for stab axles. Jack -- RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Fwd: Gap seal tape testimonial - I could not resist sharing
Guess I'd better not use any. I don't have anything that could survive 450 mph. Well, maybe the ballast in the nose Larry: Is this your way of making it fair for the rest of us? How high can you launch your T-28? You guys in California must be using heavy line these days. I'd feel bad going up against you in a contest if you were flying anything heavier than a Bonanza. (if above needs a smiley, reader needs caffeine) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:41:52 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Fwd: Gap seal tape testimonial - I could not resist sharing Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---1204393312 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don, How cool is that! I have been considering your product for quite some time and just waiting to see if it would really hold up. Now that you have been endorsed by the Precious Metal team, I guess I can go a head and order some for my T-28 now. Congratulations and keep those products coming. Larry In a message dated 3/1/08 7:43:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After installing Hilaunch.com gap seal tape to our P-51 race plane we saw over a 15mph increase in speed. Precious Metal qualified at 410.775mph. We installed it on the ailerons, elevator and rudder, and it never once came off during race week at Reno. The aircraft then flew to Gathering of the Mustangs, and back to Florida through weather and never once saw a single strip fail. The Aircraft saw regular speeds over 450mph in level flight during that time period. I would not hesitate to use the Hilaunch.com gap seal tape again in the future. Michael Town Design and Modifications Precious Metal Air Racing Of course you can improve the performance of your sailplane with Gap Seal available from _www.hilaunch.com_ (http://www.hilaunch.com/) . Don Richmond San Diego, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] EZ glider setup?
Per Fritz Bien's suggestion, I drilled a hole in mine behind the existing hook and glued in a dowel.with CA (mine is 5/16 dia, not sure what Fritz used). Then I drilled a hole in the dowel and screwed in one of those rebent cup hook with wood thread towhooks. Mine is about 1/4 aft of the aftmost part of the plastic hook platform, or maybe 15 1/8 back from the nose. (But it's more accurate to measure from the hook.) :aunches fine. I think Fritz goes another 1/8 back, but I think he likes the cg to be further back than I do. Only drawback is that you can't get a clean hole with a standard drill bit, although I'm sure there's a way to get one. I had to throw in a lot of glue.Fritz launched his very hard many times before a defect in the cover over the wing rod area let go. I don't know if they meant it that way, but the EZ glider is a pretty good thermal glider, and I don't really try to get it to roll fast. It's really necessary to use the rudder if you want it to turn well. I think the instructions that come with it say you can use an 8mm threaded rod for ballast inside the wing rod. I use 1/4 straight rod. Speeds it up quite a bit. The EZ glider is pretty fast for it's weight, and with the ballast it's faster. I found it fun on some gusty days with small thermals, though I admit it's not aerobatic. But don't trust me because I spend quite a bit of time flying floaters. Still, it's not hopeless when you put the nose down. What's weird about it, though, is how fast it loses energy when you come in for a landing and slow down a bit. Not a lot of momentum, somehow. Haven't got a technical explanation figured out yet. MM wrote: Mine didn't come with a hook, where is the best position? (I do seem to have some bungees handy!) Also, is there a specific weight that will cause this thing to get on step and really fly or is it doomed to be a floater? I have only flown it for a few short flights, a couple in gusting wind and although it seems to penetrate ok, it always seems to be more of a mushy floater. I can't imagine a roll unless it was in a vertical dive! MM RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] switch failure
If KISS is always better, why are we using ailerons and flaps and computer radios? For that matter, why aren't we all just doing free flight? Can't get too much simpler in a flying thing than a free flight hand launch glider. I think this discussion is talking me into jack type switches, though I don't know if they've been thoroughly explored for larger gliders. Brian Chan wrote: Brian, you are right on the spot. KISS is always a better path. Why do we keep circling KISS while looking for the ultimate fix ? Regards, Dave Corven. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re:Stretching things a bit?
Of course I was being completely serious with no attempt at humor. And it couldn't possibly be that I was reacting to always rather than KISS. I would go so far as to say the KISS is usually the right way to go. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aren't you confusing simple with simplistic? The KISS philosophy is a principle of operation, not a knee jerk reaction. You can simplify by using high quality components designed for a specific job, or using something overdisigned for the job. Just because a part is offered by a reputable manufacturer doesn't mean its the ultimate solution for all users in all situations. Its generally an adequate compromise. If you feel you need more, get more. But taking this idea in a nonsense direction is, well, nonsense. Jim Thomas Lincoln Ross wrote: If KISS is always better, why are we using ailerons and flaps snip RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
Looked like Michael is right. According to Profili, it's VERY similar to the RG-15. I checked it out at re*sqrt(CL)=100k and 150k. (That is, equivalent to a sailplane which is at Reynold's number of 100k and 150k when flying at Cl of 1) The two lines are just about right on top of each other. HN-216 appears microscopically better between Cl of 0.1 and 0.8, very slightly worse above Cl of 0.8. But I'm guessing one swipe with 220 grit sandpaper would make more difference! I didn't check with flaps and perhaps the program would show a difference there. (Profili is a user friendly interface for Xfoil.) Richard Burnoski wrote: Ok guys, Can anyone tell me anything about the way this airfoil = performs? HN-216 In speed ? In duration? In distance? What airfoil would it compare to of the ones we use now? So many airfoils so little time. Thanks, Richard RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Tree'd Pike Superior and good guy award
Gotta have that transmitter in your hands when he's tossing the plane out! (Or perhaps you were, if so, sorry.) A couple years back I did my own tree climbing and handed the tx to Fritz Bien. I tossed the glider out of the tree and that's the only time I've seen an Oly II do a tailslide. Come to think of it, that's the only time I've seen a tailslide from above, either. In any case the glider was flown to a good landing, although he wasn't able to catch a thermal..Failing a tx, I imagine partial crow would be best. elderb13 wrote: I was flying the third round in the Punta Gorda contest today, when I got a little low over the trees on the north side of the field, coming back to the landing area. Thought I was on the other side of this one tree, but ended up right in the top of it about fifty feet up. Gordy came over while I went back to the van to get the fishing rod retriever since I am no longer young enough to climb trees. When I got back Gordy was about 3/4 of the way up to the plane. He made it to the top and was able to get my Pike untangled from the branches and to throw it clear. Only damage was a wrinkled wing tip when it hit the ground, and I was able to finish flying out the day with it. Otherwise I would have had to hire a professional tree service to get it down for me. So thank you Gordy , I appreciated it very much. Bud E. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Bad Guy Alert
Sorry this happened to you, but that name sounds like the oldest MO in the book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus JAMES EALY wrote: Hello Guys: I just got scammed for $116 by Kevin Noone, Albany - that is the name given to me! I suspect that I was the third person he scammed from conversations with him. Won an old time vintage converted free flight to RC plane with large wing and ignition engine. Sounds familar to anyone? Too late for Paypal claim - however, what the turkey doesn't know is that I used AMEX and they will not take the scam litely. Any one interested in more detail - actual emails from Ebay? Contact me off list. Jim RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Launching Sanity
I don't know about you guys raving about the Uber planes, but for me, the best glider is one that's just barely good enough* to have good flights on the particular day in question. While I think the spot landing is a very good thing, not least for safety reasons**, I would like the pilot's thermaling ability to enter into it also. On any kind of decent day it takes very little skill to keep even today's 3 meter planes up. (Difficult days are, of course, another matter.) So, while you guys with thin wallets (I refer to current state of wallet, not cash flow or pre purchase state) and long wingspans bore holes in the sky like a powered plane***, I'm working on my skills by flying junk. Of course, it's really easy to limit the performance of your Uber plane for more challenging practice, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone add drag intentionally. To clarify for people who think more is always better, even in voltage ratings, if you run a motor wound for 6V on 12V, it will suck down a LOT more current and be far more powerful than one wound for 12V. At times, that may be enough to let the smoke out of the motor, and then it won't work anymore. Of course, you could put two 12V batteries in series and run a 12V motor, but I won't be responsible for the results. I think we reached the point of diminishing returns a long time ago, as I'm pretty sure I have as much fun at the field as anyone, without using a glider that costs more than my car. (Or at least not more than it cost when I bought it. By now there are probably hamburgers that are worth more.) *My DLG is often not in this category. With a lousy launch like mine, I need the best, and I don't have it. **I don't like getting beaned by a glider any more than anyone else. If someone is good at spot landings, chances are they are good at placing their glider away from people. Anyone who's seen a flier knocked down by an errant glider knows what I'm talking about. So I don't want anyone to make the landings easier, just figure out a way to make the thermalling harder. Start a contest at 4PM? ***A .40 sized pattern style electric may be cheaper than an Uber plane and will certainly bore a longer hole in less time. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Line breakage and launching and contest management - was, Icon 2
Do I really want to believe this from someone who keeps the pedal down even on his Easy Glider? His winch must have some kind of optical recognition because it only breaks other people's planes. Or, at least, it only breaks planes when other people are launching them. Fritz Bien wrote: At 10:09 PM 12/20/2007, Lincoln Ross wrote: It's not a big thrill to me, but I think most flyers really enjoy the big zooms. I got a 12V wind motor because I didn't know any better. It launches gliders fine, even big ones(134 and 85 oz.), but it doesn't power the big zoom. Academic for me now because somehow I lost track of it in the last move. And it had a Goughner (sp?) drum. What everyone is missing for controlling line-breakage and bigger, heavier planes. Launch DOWNWIND! You'll be surprised how easy it is on launch equipment when launching with a 15 knot wind at your back. :-D. Everybody can launch pedal to the metal and launch height will be naturally controlled. :-D -Fritz RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Passion about Icon 2, is it the wingspan?
It's not ALL about the wingspan or the money. At least not always. At least in RES. (I know you're talking about Icons, but I'd be very surprised if the same potential wasn't there in unlimited, tho perhaps not with an Oly 2. Maybe a Mantis, tho.) This summer I saw two gliders, which are probably old enough to vote, win and place against ESL pilots, at least one of whom I KNOW you've all heard of, some of whom (including said known pilot) were flying Bubble Dancers, Avas, Allegro Lite, etc. Another glider that placed in the 2 meter part of the contest was an all balsa kit built that costs under $100, although perhaps the 2M field wasn't QUITE as high tech.. You're probably better off NOT doing that overtime to pay for the latest and greatest, but going out to the field and practicing. At least if you have a choice. FLY JUNK -Lincoln RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Line breakage and launching and costest management - was, Icon 2
It's not a big thrill to me, but I think most flyers really enjoy the big zooms. I got a 12V wind motor because I didn't know any better. It launches gliders fine, even big ones(134 and 85 oz.), but it doesn't power the big zoom. Academic for me now because somehow I lost track of it in the last move. And it had a Goughner (sp?) drum. Mike Lachowski wrote: You should investigate options on the field coils. The FLS can be built as a 6V, 12V, or 24V. You definitely do not want the 6V variety But that is just what most people try to get to be more powerful. Beware of resistors. Lots of heat. Remember, with the resistor, folks are just going to stand on it all the way up. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Nats Scedule..... Who cares?
Craig Allen wrote: Nats ??? Is that that little East Coast contest you guys have every year? But always complain about schedules and events? Out West we have Viselia, IHLGF, Southwest Classic, Fresno Classic and on and on And we fly 12 months out of the year :-) So if your bragging about being 3 hours away from the Nats!!! More power to ya :- Enjoy your build season :-) Craig Build season? Wimp! Last week I flew at 20 F, 11PM in the dark. And twice more since. (Not too many thermals, I'll admit, and the L/D was only 4:1) The trees in my backyard are hungry for foam, and I may have to do it again. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] DLGs = Bang ,etc = cost per hour.
10 or 15 years ago, had an Oly 2 foisted off on me (I didn't actually bid, it was a joke) for $25. I estimate 100 hours or more. Negelecting wear and tear on very cheap radio, new batteries, etc. that's 10 cents per hour. BTW, I think 100 is a neglected blend of practical, relatively inexpensive size, visibility, and performance. DLG's are expensive because we feel we need that last little bit of performance. As Americans, I think we tend to feel we need all the bells and whistles. (My apologies to those of you from other countries.) If I am at the store, I can't seem to find the shampoo I prefer which is labeled, simply, normal. (I don't like smelling like a scented candle factory.) I am reasonably sure that one could get reasonable performance out of a polyhedral DLG bagged with Kraft paper (of a suitable weight) over foam, a mostly wooden fuselage, and balsa tail surfaces. It would still need a bit of carbon, of course. Maybe I'll make one sometime. Particularly if I become independently wealthy so I have time. :-p But seriously, I think for a professional guy, the cost of a DLG is no big deal. At least when he's between layoffs. My hobby choices are very different depending on whether time or money is the scarce resource. I predict that if we got rid of all TV's, we'd see a resurgence of scratch building. Ditto if no one was allowed to work more than 40 hours. (I am not suggesting the latter.) TJB wrote: How about cost per hour? snip I'd like to hear from some others on this way of looking at things. T RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Benchmarks. . .progress ??
Harley, you've made many of the advances in the hobby yourself. (RDS comes to mind). However, it seems to me you're implying things are stagnant, and there I must disagree. While things are not pushing forward on all fronts, I've seen tremendous progress in the hobby since I've been in it, and a lot of progress in, for instance, DLG, in just the last several years. My DLG is probably 4 years old and it is woefully obsolete! If we're writing here, it may mean that at the moment we don't feel like inventing anything. At other times, maybe otherwise. And perhaps in the course of the discussion, someone will think of a fundamental change that ought to have been made by now. BTW, although I have scratch built a couple of weird wings of my own design, and a rather ordinary slope soarer, I wouldn't say I've contributed to the advance of the hobby myself. Harley Michaelis wrote: What is the practical application of this rash of opinions about what constitutes a benchmark design? What positive action, if any, is being taken as a result? Mostly what I see is a massive neglect to now use creative talent. Isn't anyone currently trying to come up with something to advance the the state of the hobby? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Benchmark Sailplanes
Not sure I like the sound of benchmark. Aren't those made out of bronze and cemented into granite? I feel old, because I haven't seen these names: Windsong Magic (Never flew either but saw SO MANY of them, and I did own an Anthem later.) turns like a: Metrick ;-) handles thermal turns like a: Spirit (ugh!) as easy to fly as an: Oly 2 (not joking this time) Paragon (by reputation, have not flown) at least someone mentioned the Sagitta by reputation (again, have not flown), the Mirage newer: Bubble Dancer (pick your suprelative, and look at all the imitations) Supergee coulda been: Apogee (if we hadn't switched to DLG, I bet most HLG would be like this, at least for skinny people with fast arms) Do you really call it a Supra if it has a serial number? I've mostly seen scratch built ones (or is it only the original one) and it's of course very impressive. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: 2M Rambles
Actually, I think, given the AG airfoils, optimum aspect ratio is probably a function of your vision. Given very good vision and very good skill with composites, optimum aspect ratio is probably upwards of 12, as in the original Agea 2M. More realistically, maybe a bit over 11. Wing loading shouldn't be an issue, given enough building skill, as 21 oz. can be acheived. Maybe 25 oz. for all the other really good builders besides Mark. You can add ballast on windy days. Carbon tailbooms and some of the other more sophisticated building tricks keep the weight down. Most of those old airfoils are now obsolete, aren't they? (I saw a new foil, a thicker one, on the yahoo xfoil group, which behaves just like a thinner AG, though) In local contests, I end up competing against Mark. One of these days I want to see what happens if I have a glider almost as good as his is. From: David Register wrote: snip snip Beause of it's size, a 2M is not going to be able to roam as far or as high as an open class ship - it's simply harder to see at distance. So, like DLG, it's going to be more of a close-in ship. Consequently, it probably should tend to better minimum sink and max L/D rather than having great 'legs' for roaming all over the sky. This tends to drive the design towards lower aspect ratios. Due to the span limit, a high aspect ratio 2M may start to run into Re problems. Carrying more wing area will allow a lower wing loading with modest attention to building techniques. This should also help with the launch as more area would help to carry the tow weight better. The airfoils often used for 2M are not particularly well optimized for this class. If you run X-Foil snip So a couple of suggestions; - Look to lower aspect ratio designs. An evaluation discussed in RCSD a few years back suggests the 8 to 11 range is about right.snip - Sort through the Drela sections, many of them are much better in the intermediate speed range than any of the sections commonly used for 2M, snip - Work a bit on keeping the weight in the 30oz range. A ballast box is great for the windy days but it's tough to add lightness. snip - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] MidSouth Air to be Sooo Good that Tasks Are Going LONNNGG!
Suggest it would be easier for contest organizers instead of lng rounds that you make each plane carry a spherical ball, diameter equal to .15 X sqrt of wing area. Backup policy boules game if it's too windy to fly. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Can one use a copper wire for an antenna
If you can't, then I've been a very lucky free flighter all these years. I've used a number of different kinds of wire. Adminttedly the one with the thinnest, about 15 of lizst(sp?) wire and some gadgety base load, has only been flown to 1/4 mile downwind. It was an indoor model, the day was too windy, but I managed to get it to come down on the other side of the school building. Just range check. Also, you may want to set up a system, mechanical or behavioral, so you never launch without connecting that antenna. I've also used thin copper tape as external servo wiring, tho I had to use capacitors out near the servos. The thin copper tape might make a nice antenna as well. Stan Myers wrote: I'm looking to install a wire in wing for an antenna. Can I use a very thin copper wire for an antenna? TIA Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Looking for a 2-M
You guys just need to explore low aspect ratio design so you can see the plane. I doubt if an 8:1 2M is much harder to see than a 16:1 unlimited. Hide radio in tapered wing. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] wiring Mantis
Have just wired my Mantis, and the tail servos work fine, but the wing servos twitch and/or vibrate. The flap servo seems to work fine but make extra noises, the others just vaguely move as commanded by the transmitter sticks but jump around a lot. I tried putting a capacitor between signal and ground near one of the wing servos, but it didn't make much difference. This has worked for me before. I've got the wires twisted to try to prevent interference. Rx is in nose with battery, then a cable runs to a DB9 which connects with one from the wing. The power wires are doubled up to cut resistance, and I've got double pins on most of the connections at the DB9 (except flap signal). Doubled up pins are connected with each other. Suggestions? Thanks, Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Wanted Sagita 100 Kit
Unless I missed out on some historic micro modelling, I think the kit you want is the Sagitta 900, named after the wing area. It was 100 inches.I had a couple of Sagitta 600's and liked them a lot. But the E205 airfoil is unlikely to work with a span of less than 32, chord of maybe 3 or 4, Reynolds number of perhaps 30,000. So get the 900. Good luck. Bernie wrote: I'm Interested in a Airtronics Sagita 100 Kit. If you would like to = sell one please let me know and how much you would like for it.SKI RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Design question - how large to make stabs?
I've seen the following withstand some pretty scary launches: http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/bubbledancer/PDFs/htail_V2.pdf and especially this construction, tho you'd have to scale it up: http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/allegrolite2m/Allegro_Lite.pdf http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/allegrolite2m/tailconstruction.htm You've probably seen THIS construction take some heavy loads: http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/supra/all%20PDFs/supra_stab.pdf You'll have to work out the joiner boxes yourself. I don't recall the name of it, but the following should come up between 0.3 and 0.6, probably, on a conventional configuration. The lower end of the scale is good if a long tailboom gives you more damping. (stab area X stab moment)/(wing area X avg chord) Where stab moment is from AC of wing to AC of stab. You don't have to be TERRIBLY precise here, unless the aspect ratio is low. I just checked out a few Drela designs. The two poly designs came out around 0.30 to 0.33, the two normal aileron/flap ones at something like 0.37, and the Supergee 2 DLG at 0.47 or something. Remember that's with a relatively long tailboom. We are getting to the season where it's easy to dewarp epoxy tails, at least if they haven't had a long history of getting hot. Put in corebeds, strap to flat surface, and leave in car on sunny day. After a day or two, they ought to be straight, assuming your car gets to at least 140F and your epoxy is garden variety. jrmaclean [EMAIL PROTECTED] /Date:/ Mon May 8, 2006 9:27 pm /Subject:/ [RCSE] Design question - how large to make stabs? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Email Send Email http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soaring/post?postID=NLoBZHtYZ_hCAbb5Ce4PUwkdQYu_kuh9ihwmS_oW5Jny3M8tyeWNRwdhwRXUieZM8HhQK4mVdmBpSwZdihlqQu_FPA1tudcIQofHKas Soaring Friends, My TD ship of choice is Compulsion by Fred Sage usually with a 126 inch wing. I have had good success with this plane and managed to stock up a few as bargains came available. Some time back there was a comment that the stab was a bit small. Fred agreed and started to produce a larger stab with a light layup to compensate. Unfortunately, mine warped. Fred promised to fix but I was deliquent and events overcame Fred. I then went to some lighter, built-up stabs which were somewhat larger in area. I very much liked the way the plane flew with this setup. Unfortunately, the stresses were too high during launch and I had some very exciting landings with shredded stab halves! So what to do now? Any thoughts on the following: sources for straight, tough, light replacement stabs. How big in area and chord should they be? Characteristics of oversize / undersize stabilizers on the aircraft handling? Many thanks for helpful suggestions. Jim MacLean RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] re: soldering
Either the rods are stainless and you have to really beat on them, or you're not using enough heat. (Well, ok, not beat on them, but use different flux or something. I have bad luck soldering to stainless, but no less a source than Mark Drela tells me it can be done. Kind of reminds me of the people who can bend balsa on 1/2 radius for EZB wingtips. I'm not one of them. Another thought that occurs to me is that if your marmalade also tasted funny you might want to check for an accidental swap.) What kind of super duper flux were all you guys talking about? I suppose I could just get that Sta Brite stuff... On Sat, 15 Apr 2006, Shape wrote: I'm working on a new plane that has.080 steel push rods and they don't seem to solder well. I have sanded them, fluxed them and all the solder does is bead up. Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong. Jerry RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: TX RF output? and urban legends
I hope you're right. Wasn't always like that, and I suspect with park flyers, or any such single conversion (ugh! and yes, I've heard there are other solutions than dual conversion) receivers it still isn't. Back in 1990 or so, I conscientiously got a 1991 system on channel 20. I could shoot down almost anyone at will.* Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, if you're flying hand launch or something so that the other guy's transmitter is one tenth the distance to your plane as yours is, then you're operating at almost a 20db handicap. So his signal had better drop by more than that by the time it gets to be one channel over. Or if you're flying any other event where pilots aren't all in one place. Of course, it's remarkable how much less often the really experienced pilots get shot down. I think dumb thumbs must somehow interfere with clean radio signals. Real shootdowns are a real bummer. I was at a mismanaged contest once that had slope and thermal components. They handed me my tx, I turned on, heard the commotion, saw the plane diving, figured out what was happening and turned off just before the unfortunate guy had his plane slam into the ground. Or the time my plane started jumping all over and then I heard a bzSMACK! because of a guy who hadn't bothered to look around or range check at the uncontrolled field. (Am I showing my age if I admit that that was on brown and white?) *(Except I didn't know that's what was happening, all I knew was that I'd had my tx tested on [nice to have] the club scanner/frequency analyzer and it was very clean. A beat frequency between channel 20and a TV signal was the problem, I'm told. What finally convinced me was that I could repeatedly lock up a Futaba 5 channel PCM with my signal. ) Gordy wrote: This is mostly just that .splatter, not RF but conversation. Our RX's have a huge problem...they are sooo selective they barely listen to their own frequencies, so the idea of them being bothered by some sort of close emission from a grey tuned TX, while 'possible' fact is the offending TX's emission would have to be as powerful as your own TX's correct output so as to 'slur' your TX's frequency.. snip However stories about getting shot down are reinforced by reports of off tune TX's makes them more dramatic which equals 'real'. When in fact seldom is a 'shoot down' a shoot down, usually the cause is a faulty on board power connection...switch, or connector. Cases like the Nats problems are more likely due to on board antenna situations., or then there is the assumption that the pilots TX must be working just fine at the time of the glitches. Dirty antenna, a funky rubber ducky install or it's sloppy BNC connector connection or some other mechanical shortcomingcouldn't be :-) It is a lot easier and more fun to put the blame on the other and his probably out of tune module, the mysterious 'them' are always the culprit.. snip RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Power Supply repair
Don't spend too much. You can get 15A surplus computer power supplies for $20 or so. (allelectronics.com is one place) Or half the price for 5 or 10 amps, I recall. At least some of the computer supplies are smart enough to shut off instantly as soon as you short them. Mine is like that, though it isn't a 15 amp supply. Then you just have to switch off, unplug, and plug back in. If you know someone tossing out a PC, then the supply may even be free. (Though not as likely to be 15A) Sometimes you can see just one burnt component on a power supply and maybe replace it. MIME crap deleted Can someone recommend a repair place for a 15A power supply? My charger leads shorted out the PS. The charger lived but I let out the magic smoke from the PS. If I can get if fixed for a reasonable amount I'd like to do that instead of having to buy a new one. gv RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Replacement for Oracover lite
You need to tell us what SORT of 100 RES airplane. Does it have a full d-tube or other structure that would provide torsional stiffness. If so, you could probably cover it safely with just about anything, though some coverings would be annoyingly vulnerable to punctures and such. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Model Aviation Control Line???
The (gas) heli and scale aerobatics guys don't have to scream. They only have to hint. Someone else will do the dirty work with their money. If that's what they want. If they don't, you have to admire them for their restraint. I don't know about the rest of control line, but I've watched some combat matches and there's definitely excitement potential. At least for the one time in 5 when the two competitors manage to get their motors running at the same time for a while. Free flight guys ARE screaming. It's traditional. But mostly amongst ourselves. We kind of expect nothing from AMA. One area of resentment is that the insurance is the same for guys flying 1 oz. planes at 10mph as it is for guys flying 20 pound airplanes at 150mph, with sharp points on the front, flammable liquids on board, containing ignition sources. There's a cartoon: the Devil is reading the paper at the gates of hell. (Must be a slow day.). The huge headline screams: AMA reduces insurance charges for ff. Snow is falling. For the moment, I've given up EZB, because my best plane ever, 0.6gram, was smashed into pieces by an enormously heavy, 25 gram rubber scale job. Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:00:20 -0800 From: Bill's Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Model Aviation Control Line??? Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Swingle wrote: I am curious. Does control line truly have a big enough following to justify all the press it does get? I'm doubtful. Here's some numbers: 2005 NATS attendance: RC Total = 433 Soaring = 151 Control Line = 223 Free Flight = 348 Makes you wonder why the Free Flight guys are not screaming?? Personally I consider it so basic and elementary that it's boring. Why do people fiddle about with it? Of course I feel the same about glow power as well. :-) Everyone thinks that the other guy's hobby/interest is lame. You should hear what my power friends say about gliders. What the heli guys say about plankers, what the TD guys say about slopers, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on... There was also no heli column or scale aerobatics column this issue. I have not seen them yelling, yet!!! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] soaring activity in Pioneer (yeah, right) Valley area in Massachusetts
Anyone know of significant soaring actifity in Deerfield (Greenfield, Northampton, Amherst) area? I'm out there a lot these days. AMA site is a pain when searching for clubs. Thanks. Lincoln RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: soaring activity in Pioneer (yeah, right) Valley area in Massachusetts
Well, around Deerfield, at least near the river, it appears to be mostly farmland. I've been flying at a high school field that's so close to where I usually stay that I just pick up my radio, glider and high start and walk over. One of these days I should fix up my Zagi. Sugarloaf and Sugarloaf North appear to have real potential for slope soaring. Not sure what the park people would have to say. Maybe that means hiking up Sugarloaf North only. (For those of you near the area, in summer you can drive up Sugarloaf South from a gate you'll see at the first right as you get to the top of the hill climbing up from the bridge from Sunderland. There's a parking lot too if you want to walk up, which is the only option in the winter. Close to the river. For Sugarloaf North, there's a little parking lot off, surprise, Hillside Ave, unless it changes it's name as it heads east from South Deerfield. A much longer walk than Sugarloaf. Don't be tempted to bushwack up Sugarloaf North from the west. Toward the top, it's pretty scary. I only found the path on the way down.) Trees likely to be a BIG problem from Sugarloaf North. snip You know that area is mostly rain-forest feeding the Quabin Resevior, but there is always a cleared field nobody will bother over you trespassing on. Rick Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:34:04 -0500 From: Lincoln Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: soaring activity in Pioneer (yeah, right) Valley area in Massachusetts Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone know of significant soaring actifity in Deerfield (Greenfield, Northampton, Amherst) area? I'm out there a lot these days. AMA site is a pain when searching for clubs. Thanks. Lincoln RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Wind Question - Not for Sport Fliers
I dunno about that not carrying ballast bit. Maybe things are different now, but my experience is that the E205 NEEDS the weight, even if it isn't all that windy. Maybe not 11 oz./ft^2 in a 2 meter, except if it's really windy, but 9 oz is fine. I also recall having a lot of fun on a really windy day with a ballasted model with a 7037. (These airfoils just approximations, of course. No one has put my particular sanding swipes and squashed bugs in a wind tunnel.) However, at least with the 205, it was necessary to let it run. Too slow meant sinking. A properly built Allegro Lite has the performance of a larger plane except that the handling is different and it's harder to see. True 10mph is not that much. 5 in the afternoon on a winter day is probably not a good time for thermals. Wind gusts, maybe. Every once in a very long while, I've stayed up at times like that. Once in front of Sal himself while trying out that built up 2 meter he sells. Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:33:02 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ryan Woebkenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Wind Question - Not for Sport Fliers Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3807_1140442382_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit RE: Your wing loading seems to come out to 6.65 ounce per square foot. Im taking your 525 sq. in. and the 22.5oz plane flying weight . Thats very light for any wind performance.If those figures are credible, I would suggest trying to fly at a wing loading of 11oz. sq.ft. when your sure that thermals are abundant in those 10 mph wind conditions. So if my math is right, that flying weight using ballast would be 39 to 40 ounces total flying model weight . Geez, that sounds heavy, but your starting out very light! And 2 meter models dont have stellar performance to start with. Just a note here, When I get chances to assist guys flying those super light models,,, I find it more difficult to read air even in a no wind condition because the model is milling around, like cows grazing in a pasteur; and not covering much airspace, I prefer to mustang horses galloping on an open range.Specifically,Im talking about those 8 and 9 ounce wing loading types. To make matters worse if thats possible some of those models are really nose heavy too! Now a point of interest Ill state here is not all airfoils like ballast. The airfoils that come to mind are: Clark Y, Eppler 205, SD 7037.I think those are all higher camber wing airfoils. My experience with those airfoils is the more you ballast, the faster they come down.I also found that happening to some extent on the Pike Superior and that is why I dont fly one any more. Although the v-tail flew, penetrated ,, the wind better than the crosstail! So, If you are sure that there were thermals that day,,, Is the reason you werent happy with your acheived performance, the following: 1)your plane set up, with regards to balancing? 2) your plane set up with regards to coupled aileron differential and rudder throw. 3) your airfoil? 4)the wing loading too light? 5)the pilot? 6) There were no thermals? 7) Or the thermals were not strong enough to support your model? You said 5:00p.m., which is quite late in the day for good thermal organization,, Especailly at 35 degrees F. 8) It was a 2-meter? Thermals, Richard Burnoski Richard, OK, you did say you would answer questions if asked... I just went out to practice. A bit of detail on the plane first. It is an Allegro Lite 2m. If you are unfamiliar with the plane you can think of it as sort of a mini Ava. 525 sq inch wing area, the plane weighs about 22.5 ounces in the electric configuration I practice with. Right now, it is my highest performance plane. It is also very convenient to practice with as it assembles quick and is electric. OK, so in southern Indiana at 5:00 today after work it was about 35 degrees and the weather site says about 10 mph wind from the North. I could definitely find patches of lift. And at times it seemed strong. I noticed this both on the climbs and in glide. But it seemed every time I tried to wrap it I would loose altitude. Sometimes when flying into the wind the plane would speed up quite a bit and gain altitude, something I normally associate with entry into a thermal. So I attempt a wrap but that was never successful. I started to get cold and packed up but on the drive home I thought perhaps instead I should have just tried to float through those patches or perhaps S turn in it kind of like slope lift. Definitely from the ground there seemed to be times when a thermal would pass through. Any thoughts on flying in these conditions? Ryan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL
Re: [RCSE] Re: Supra flies and antenna
see belowL Simon Van Leeuwen wrote: Comments inserted; Lincoln Ross wrote: snip I wonder if anyone has tried using the tailboom for an antenna? How about the wing spar for the ground, i.e. negative, power wire? For reference, for another project I measured a carbon tow at 25ohms/ft. Not sure which type.Not sure how many tows in one of those spars. Not a silly question - but carbon is dissipative by nature, so definitely no. The electrical losses would be huge. Well, what about the power wire? That's DC, isn't it? I don't know how many tows equal a spar, though. It would have to be a lot. Seems to me those dedicated wires are just extra insulation. For that matter, you could drop the insulation on the negative wire. One could use one big wire, as someone else mentioned. And a little wire for the signal. If you're worried about reliability, one big wire makes it easier to have redundant pins. If you use double pins for every function, that's 12 pins per wing. One big connector, perhaps? Also, if you're worried about reliablility, make sure you use very careful strain relief. Probably using really fine stranded wire would help with the reliability as well, but I don't know where to get it, particularly on a budget. Again, I challenge anyone to demonstrate a win or loss becuase they carried slightly more or less mass equating to approximately an ounce. I challenge anyone to demonstrate a win or loss due to anything except: 1. practice 2. ability 3. failure of the airplane, radio, health of the pilot, etc. 4. complete inadequacy of performance. I used to beat Windsongs with a Sagitta 600 (43 oz) Proving things is hard. I challenge anyone to demonstrate a win or loss because of 1/2 sq. inch flat plate perpendicular to flight direction. (Or, at similar drag coefficient, a cylinder. Can anyone say launch peg?) Anyway, I'm ruined because for a while I built EZB's. The drive to have the lightest mass is not warranted except as an excersise to show it can be lighter. Other systems are being compromised for what? It just won't contribute to a win or a longer flight given current L/D's. As it stands now there exists viable conector options in very small form factors that allow each of the 4 servos in an F3x wing to have PWR/GND along with the SIG. Yeah, but in the other system you can lose any one pin with no effect at all. Probably needs to have a diagnostic, I suppose. (I'm sure your systems are very reliable. Your soldering, strain relief, and attention to detail are probably much better than us occasional hackers.) One known reliability issue is for those systems that the enduser has to literally connect and disconnect connector systems by hand. Yah, that's a scary one. 1000 feet, minute and a half to go, no spoilers! As far as strand count goes versus flexibility, 7 strands in 24 or 22awg is more than adequate in this scenario. I build plenty of plug-and-play harnesses for IMAC-style giant gassers that employ 7-9 strand that have experienced zero fatigue-failure. This environment offer significantly more chances of fatigue-failure scenarios than a sailplane ever will. That's good info. Thanks. Maybe I can relax about the lousy wire I found. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Supra flies and antenna
Again, how many tows in a spar? 25 ohms/ft for JUST ONE TOW. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Supra flies and antenna
You win on the basis of typing speed and motivation. Simon Van Leeuwen wrote: grin It may be possible to produce a spar which conducts at some value similar to that 24awg lead, but remember I stated the magnitude of difference was almost 3? Now how big do you think that spar would have to be given this? And how do you propose to make the physical electrical connections between the PWR supply (battery) and each of the loads (servos) and every one of those rovings? Sorry Lincoln, not trying to show you up, but trying to point out the magnitude of your assertions... Lincoln Ross wrote: Again, how many tows in a spar? 25 ohms/ft for JUST ONE TOW. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] pink sailplanes, tailbooms
It appears to be a mold release issue, as on the latest one I wrapped the mandrel in very thin polyethylene sheet and the boom came off very easily. I'll bet that if I used Frekote or something, I'd be ok. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Supra flies and antenna
I wish I had a graphics program I actually knew, installed in this computer. Oh well. The possibilities Ahem, to be more relevant but perhaps still silly, I wonder if anyone has tried using the tailboom for an antenna? How about the wing spar for the ground, i.e. negative, power wire? For reference, for another project I measured a carbon tow at 25ohms/ft. Not sure which type.Not sure how many tows in one of those spars. Seems to me those dedicated wires are just extra insulation. For that matter, you could drop the insulation on the negative wire. One could use one big wire, as someone else mentioned. And a little wire for the signal. If you're worried about reliability, one big wire makes it easier to have redundant pins. If you use double pins for every function, that's 12 pins per wing. One big connector, perhaps? Also, if you're worried about reliablility, make sure you use very careful strain relief. Probably using really fine stranded wire would help with the reliability as well, but I don't know where to get it, particularly on a budget. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] pink sailplanes, tailbooms
Have to admire Mark for resisting temptation. He has sufficient credibility in the soaring community that I bet he could get all you Supra owners to paint them pink with purple polka dots so that they would thermal better. (Yes, I follow his advice, too.) I'm willing to put pink pigment in the tailboom epoxy, if you request. Small charge, of course, and you need to do the dots yourself. More seriously, open to any good ideas for getting the [EMAIL PROTECTED] off the mandrel, and how to keep layup as light as possible. (75 grams or so isn't so bad, but maybe I can do better) Lincoln Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] supra booms
How much interest is there in Supra booms? I just made one, tho with 10 year old epoxy, etc., but I've established to my satisfaction that I can probably do it. This one was about 70 grams at 36 inch length, I can make longer. Later ones will probably weigh a tad more than 70g, maybe 75 or so, but then I may get better at compressing them, too. My mandrel goes from about .86 to about .47 or so, in 46. Anyway, I might make some of these. No way can I match tailboom.com's price, so if those come back I'll drop out. Currently using 3 layers 9 oz. uni carbon tapering to 1 layer, with 1.4 oz bias glass. Can consider other layups, or even smaller booms as I have a collection of golf club shafts, fish poles, etc. At this point I'm just testing to see how much interest there is. Lincoln Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I might have put my phone number here but I was doing the first layup late last night.) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] long wings, flying in wind, finding that Xacto knife
I have seen a 7m RC glider. Not legal for competition, of course. The guy was able to launch to 200 or 300 feet with one of those creaky old Davey Systems belt drive winches, which I was able to bog down with the 2M plane I was flying at the time. A low pass, right over your head, really catches ones attention. Scale pilot would probably be a 3 month old baby. The glider had its own trailer, just like the ones you ride inside. This was at the Tidewater Nats wind flying: You need to practice a lot to know just how far downwind you can chase those thermals and get back. Otherwise, the somewhat aggressive, calculated risk taking attitude you need won't be calculated and will put you in the tallest downwind tree for sure. So, if it's going to be windy today, leave work now and have a flying session. Don't be too afraid of a bit of down elevator. Don't go too heavy on ballast unless you've practiced with it. Do NOT land downwind. (I once had a t tail detach and flip high into the air on a windy downwind landing that looked otherwise perfect.) If you ignore this and land downwind, forget about your points and just try to save the plane. DON'T try to slow it down if it looks too fast, unless you have it out of trim. So your best bet is to bail out and come back just a bit sooner than you otherwise would. Learn to keep a bit more altitude and then approach a bit more steeply, and slightly hotter, and plant that nose. Especially in RES, where a nice soft landing often turns into a graceful pivoting sweep followed by a ground bound wingover, inversion, and 0 points. Evaluate the field. Unless your competitors are all stellar, you may do better by not screwing up than by pushing very hard. Windy contests are often survival contests. Caveat: Perhaps competitive soaring has changed in the last few years, but I bet the above still applies. P.S. Flying my Chrysalis unballasted the other day was fun until the wind got above 15mph or so, at least according to NOAA. finding the knife: Make sure the handle is round and doesn't have anything like a little stick taped to it. Then, every time you lose track of it, you will FEEL where it is. Just be sure to wear blood colored pants. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] should have mentioned re which sailplane
Polyhedral and other workload reducers allow more proficiency on less practice! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Sailaire Spoiler Servo Mount
If you practice a little, compensating for the spoiler is pretty easy to do manually. Probably takes about as much trouble as getting the mix right. And I've always used pull strings for spoilers with good results. Less trouble on assembly than plugging electrical connectors, and I'd guess maybe even more reliable. (On the Io, it wasn't even necessary to compensate for the spoilers. Seemed to come in at reasonable attitude automatically, I guess because of the t tail.) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] monokote.... AHHHHHH!!!!!!
Stick down with iron not quite hot enough to cause shrinkage, trying to keep everything as tight as possible. Shrink with an iron, with as much heat as you can use without causing melting problems. Do tests on samples first. Use Monokote, though as I recall Ultrakote is almost as easy to use. I suppose using an iron can cause little tiny scratches, but they are very hard to see. Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: launch height
Here's an altitude track which I think was done with a 3M plane (with the extra drag of the gadget), Ford winch, and retriever. (Probably with Real Balls, probably with a Mantis.) I think I was even there on the occasion but did not know which flight was the one. Launch part of altitude track should be obvious. http://jeklink.net/projects/altitude.png RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re:
Jack Womack wrote about using weak line. Suggest using weak link and fairly strong line. Easier to deal with a line break that way, and less breaks due to wear. You might go throu a few extra rings, but if you do it right you could still use the retriever and have little down time. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] suitable timer
Well, it isn't sexy, but a Casio W-71 watch makes an excellent timer, with buttons that seem like they never bounce. I don't forget it, because it's my everyday watch. (I guess that makes me a geek.) The numbers are a bit small, and there's no voice calling off times, and if you want the count down feature to go past zero you'd need to set 20 minutes with 10 for zero instead of 10 down to 0. But it works great. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] real soaring
For a real soaring contest, how about requiring exposed flat plate area perpendicular to travel direction equal to 1% (or maybe 1/2%) of wing area? That ought to make it hard to get the times. Lincoln RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Wanted Airtronics Sagitta 600 (2M)
I can give location within 1/4 mile of a rekitted one you can have with radio gear. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Epoxy Questions
see below John Derstine wrote: snip Secondly, there is rarely enough mold release or contaminants inside the fuselage of a molded fuse to degrade the joint, if in doubt clean with a de-greaser (prep sol or similar) or lacquer thinner before sanding. Well, on epoxy fuselages, the mold release can be water soluble, so that earlier suggestion of water and scouring powder is a good one if they used PVA. Do not use PFM or some temporary flexible glue on a retract, it will come loose. I've never heard anyone talk about 3M 5200 in an application like this, but if I wanted to try a flexible adhesive, that's what I'd use. I'd try to have a little space in the joint. The stuff is known for being very hard to remove. snip The easiest (and best) method is to buy a quart size of West Systems or Fiberlay Pro Glas, or Aerospace Composites EZ Lam and use fumed silica as a thixotropic agent. 25 -45 minute cure formulas are fine with a good grade epoxy. This is not something that you won't use all the time if you are an active modeler, the shelf life is quite long and it is not so expensive considering what you get for your money in terms of quantity and quality. While EZ Lam and such are good products, for the best results I should think an epoxy meant for gluing would be less brittle, as opposed to one meant for laminating. snip Polyester resins are a thing of the past, emit waxy residue, and are unpredictable in the long run. If the fuselage was made from polyester resin, and the wax is thoroughly removed, this can be a very good bond. Not all polyester has wax in it, although putting wax in the final coat ensures it will cure all the way to the outside surface. I have never found fresh, properly catalyzed polyester to be anything but predictable. Predictably, it stinks to high heaven. But if you can stand the drawbacks, it's good for bonding to old polyester. Isopthalic resin (a variant) behaves well and I seem to recall it has somewhat better properties, though I don't remember exactly anymore. snip I think I agree with most of the snipped stuff. Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Re: Happiness Is
Smart manufacturers package their wares in boxes with preprinted boot prints and preexisting holes. The customers are so happy at the undamaged merchandise inside that they are willing to overlook any minor deficiencies, like missing servo screws or something. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] anecdotal evidence short antenna in small plane
My current hlg has antenna in fuse but not at full length. Coiled part near rx around a small piece of foam a few times. Range test and use are just fine. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: What is the real range of our TXs?
I dunno about that. Check out this flight: http://www.jeklink.net/graphics/davis_boomer_alt.jpg http://www.jeklink.net/graphics/davis_boomer_color.jpg Majortomski wrote: And the three miles comes from a belief, to answer your question that our effective range is around a mile and a half. So doubling that between fields was to guarantee that mile and a half. And except for a giant/ quarter scale model I doubt most folks can see a model to control it at more than a half mile. This from a fly away experiance. we couldn't figgure left from right of the little spec of a 40 size trainer. We found it 1/2 mile from the pilot station RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: TCAD and PDF file
There is, or was maybe 4 years ago, a piece of software which would take anything you could print and turn it into an acrobat file. It was set up as if it was a printer you could pick, as I recall, but created a file instead. I'll bet it's still out there, but I don't recall what it was, and I suppose it probably costs something. This was probably only a subset of the full Adobe program, right? Sorry I can't recall the name of it or anything. Zb.Michalczyk wrote: Hi all! I have been using Turbo CAD for all dimentioned drawings for a while Printing whole and partial drawing seem good quality with high = resolution Now I would like to make PDF files out of it there is no direct change over to the PDF file in the TCAD manu the only option is to make JPG , but it seems to make low resolution ( = small file) JPG copy of it then using Adobe Photoshop 6 makes me desireable PDF file , but = resolution on the screen and print outs is very poor Do I miss something? anybody ? Mike RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Multiplex Transmitter Crystal
Actually, it's a little known fact that they DO have jurisdiction over the entire world and only allow flying between 6AM and 10PM, CST. (-6hrs Greenwich, I think) John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And Thank goodness from me too Regards, John Ensoll Builder, flier, fly fisherman,in retirement. www.canterburysailplanes.co.nz RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: stab size
That's like me asking you what shoe size I should wear! How about info like wing area, exact tail moment (like from 1/4MAC to 1/4 MAC), airfoil, and presence of flaps? Jerry wrote: I need a little advice from all you design esxpets out there. I have been playing around with a 2M and I think the stab size is a little shy of what it should be. It figures out to be about 12 1/2 % of the wing area and was wondering if this is what it should be. The plane does not an have an overly long tail moment and does this enter in to what is considered the norm. Any help is appreciated. Jerry RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] teflon tube installation
I'm thinking, to install a teflon tube on the inside of a fuse, you might consider making a polyethylene (make SURE it's polyethylene) tube (seal edges with an iron), putting it in the fuse, and inflating it to hold the tube in place while gluing. I'm guessing that if you use reasonably heavy poly, it won't get close enough to the joint between the tube and the fuse to wick the glue away. But now you have to come up with a way to inspect this joint to make sure the glue is all along it. And does the etching really make glue stick well to the teflon? Maybe you can dye the glue or something? Lincoln Ross back to not even lurking mode theory only glad I don't have to do this RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Number 11 blades
Sharpening is faster. And you don't make unpleasant reacquaintance with old blades scattered in the hurry to change them quickly. someone wrote: Geeez guys, these blades are a few bucks for 100. Not worth the BS factor of sharpening them!! Remove and replace BTW, Monokote dulls blades faster than anything. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Number 11 blades
My closest slope site WAS a dump. Would be great if it weren't for those pesky trees upwind. But it would take a lot of #11 blades to make a pile that high. Steve Meyer wrote: (html or MIME or whatever garbage deleted) Sure, fill them garbage dumps quicker so we have more slope sites. Steve RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] RE: landing contests
I think even if they are somewhat devalued that precision in landing should still count for something. It's a real safety factor. Very apparent when flying with groups that include both contest flyers and non-contest flyers, and keeping track of who you have to keep an eye on when their plane gets low. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: TD
TD is not about soaring, so why not just use big motors? Cheaper than winches, and none of that pesky thermalling. And no need for those expensive, non-rectangular molded carbon planes. You can get your materials from the lumber aisle in Home Despot. P.S. suggest change to [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.P.S. this is another one of those modest proposals RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Hortens
That may be, but neither the moderate taper or the winglets are anything like what you'd see in a Horten design. John Derstine wrote: Actually Jochen Hass designer, describes this plane as a direct development of his model Horten projects. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Night flying lights cancel message
You can do great things at nil weight and low current consumption with ultra bright LED's. Chris Veitch wrote: Sorry guys forget that I just found them. Rgds Chris -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] airfoil/planform thoughts
Not so easy. There's a viscosity element too. THe Re number is way higher than that! I did some calculations on a 2 chord moving much slower about a year ago that gave that kind of Re. --- Jason Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how much of a difference in does it make when desiging a foil to be used in water vs air? I know it is probably signifigant, but I never see a coeff inputed for density... Reynolds number is proportional to density and, for a 6 chord in water I calculate your Re at 10 mph to be 67,880. This is definately our kind of Re. -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] airfoils for low Reynolds numbers
Where are you finding data on the web that makes these look good at low RE? If I remember my NACA nomenclature, those are laminar flow foils which ought to be awful at our Reynold's numbers. If you want to use them you should build a full size plane, unless I'm just full of it. BTW, what is task of plane? Probably someone can suggest something much better if they know what it's for and how heavy you think it will be. If you can't find tunnel data at appropriate Re, there's always Xfoil. BTW, Lednicer says 63a409 and 63a406 for that plane Brent wrote: speaking of stall characteristics.. I'm doing a smallish wing with a naca series of airfoils, 64a409 - 64a406 at the tips... 100+ inches, going from 250 to 150MM not sure as to whether it will be powered or an a pure sailplane yet. Looking at the airfoil 'behavior' on the web, I think it will be a good performer, but anyone have any input? An aero friend on mine thinks that it might be touchy re stalling, but I'm not sure that I get that from the graphs... Anyone? And if you're curious, the airfoils are the same as on the U2 / TR1: I've always loved that plane Brent -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] help with my next plane.
see below Brian Stutters wrote: i'm looking to move up (or laterally) to another plane. my current spirit is not only fairly well destroyed, but has been a pain in the ass the entire way. I can understand that! Yuck! i want to stay in the 2m RES area, not the greatest idea as even a little larger is much nicer so i've been considering these options: snip c) nsp's kestrel 2m. seems nice enough and i like the idea of laser cut parts. I flew an early version or maybe it was a prototype and it flew very well. I haven't heard the greatest things about the quality of the kit. Isn't there a short kit of the Sagitta 600? A little obsolete in some sense, but a very nice flyer nonetheless, and you won't have the old problem of telling yours apart from the other 5 in the same thermal. If you build one keep the tail as light as you can and maybe reinforce the fuse just a tad around the front of the fin. If I was in that market I might be tempted to try a Laser Arts Jester, but I don't know how it flies or whether it's any good. Just looks like it might be good. Of course if you're ready to do a lot of work there's the Allegro Lite, but that's a heavy duty project! lots of people have been telling me to step up to a 100 plane, but my hi-start is for 2m and it would be difficult to fit larger wings in my car, so that's out of the question...for now at least. Some 100 aren't very heavy, and most have two part wings. If you can't fit 50 wing halves you must be sharing a Messerschmidt tandem car with another flyer. Dynaflite used to have a 100 plane which I think was pretty light called the Apogee, but again I don't know how it flew, plus I don't know if you can get one. Maybe would high start on 2M ok. The Oly 2 is very nice but slow, and if a high start can launch a Spirit I bet it can do as well for a light Oly 2. Laser Arts has a 100 plane but I don't know what it's like. An Oly 2 made with a fully d tubed S3021 wing would probably be great. There's a short kit out there for the Sagitta 900, but I've never flown one, or at least not for long. I think people used to like them. snip -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: verticaly unstable
Oscar Taboada wrote: snip I have tought there has to be a problem on the linkage, but have found nothing. the clevis were inserted very tightened to the servo arms and I am using great planes plastic pushrods so there can not be a problem of themperatures. I have yet to see plastic that's real stable thermally. Is this really true? -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
life expectancy (was RE: [RCSE] aluminium bonding)
Two, and probably three, of the planes I've used this year are over 10 years old. J wrote: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Bill Johns wrote: Our planes don't have life expectancies of 20+ years and these reactions do take a while to happen. 20 years? I'm lucky if I get 20 days! -J -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: life expectancy (was RE: [RCSE] aluminium bonding)
Not true. Ask anyone around here how far I go downwind. One of the planes was flown out of a very tall tree (I had to push it out of the tree backwards, Fritz Bien performed the lomcevak and recovery) just a few weeks ago, and last year it landed maybe 1/2 mile downwind. I calibrated my range perception on another with a nice soft bush just a couple of weeks ago. Then there's the hand launch I put in a tree last year because when I tried to fly behind it I didn't go back far enough. Many other such stories. Monkey King wrote: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Lincoln Ross wrote: Two, and probably three, of the planes I've used this year are over 10 years old. When that little voice in your head says Yyehhh, I guess you've got enough altitude for that... you decide No, I don't, whereas I say Well, I'll try it. What's the worst that can happen? And then I find out. -J snip -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] adhesion and adhesives: long and boring
I double glove with polyethylene (I thing that's what they are) gloves inside latex. THe polyethylene gloves are (were?) available from Lab Safety Supply in a hand shaped dispenser. Cheap! Of course that's what I use building boats. Maybe that's not up to aviation standards. Originally adopted to stop acetone from getting thru. J.P. wrote: All this talk about this glove is good for this, but not for that makes me think of one solution that seems good for all, but a real nuisance. Double glove, with Vinyl glove on the inside to protect you, and Latex gloves on the outside to protect the materials and adhesives being used. Simple, suitable protection for both sides, and a bit of a nuisance to do. J.P. -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Lift calculation
55mph is pretty SLOW for cross country, even in the old days, from what I hear. I've heard tales of people chasing wooden airplanes at 70 or 80mph. Remember that if you go over a bump while chasing you may hit full up elevator while going at high speed, so if the winch is wimpy launching may not be the highest stress. I don't know what ca is, but it sounds like Cl (lift coefficient), so I'll assume that's what you meant. You must live at a very LOW altitude, as the air density you give is greater than that of water. Try 1.225kg/m^3, not 1,225! You also left out the velocity, plus your answer will be in Newtons (force), not kg (mass). I get about 42 kg, but judging by your answer you used the velocity in the actual calculation, as well as the correct density, and just forgot to divide by 9.8 to get kg. Of course you will have to multiply by 9.8 again in your structural calculations. Also, watch out on your unit conversions. It's 12.9ft^2, not 129! Correct formula should be, if I'm not mistaken, L = Cl(1/2)rho(v^2)S where S is wing area, rho is density, v is speed. You probably need to do some homework to define what a realistic maximum airspeed for your XC plane is, and maybe you should get someone to help you with the structural calculations or go over them a few times and really make sure you understand them. It's very easy to mess up these calculations if you just plug into them without being aware of sneaky things like those Newtons. If it was me I would be tempted to design for max Cl at max speed on the assumption that I might someday get a glitch and experience full elevator throw at speed. Of course maybe the servo isn't that strong, but that's not easy to define. BTW, I calculate a 200 foot vertical zoom (60m) with no losses (and there are ALWAYS losses) would be 77mph or 34mps. I have seen models zoom that high (as in 50% above release point), though I suppose not many winches could do it to an XC plane. Good luck. snipanyway I creted a spreadsheet to calculate the forces for different ca's and different speeds I just took these values as an example... 55 mph seems to me as being rather high for such a ship while a ca of 0,9 seems rather normal although I don't know whether a real plane really reaches such a ca. The airfoil I want to use gave a Ca max of 1.4 in wind tunnel testing at Re = 200,000. Trying to get a grip on things ;-)) Wolfram 417 kg, Ca of 0.9, speed 25 m/second, wing area of 1.2 sqm You mentioned during launching. I must ask: Is 25m/s and 0.9Ca happening at the same time and DURING A LAUNCH realistic? 417 kg with a ca of 0,9 ; speed 25 m/secand and a wing area of 1,2 sqm (919 lbs with a ca of 0,9 ; speed 56 mph and a wing area of 129 sqfeet) That would be almost enough for a full scale glider!! The equation I used is this: Lift = (ca * air density (1,225 kg/m^3) * wing area)/2 -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Lift calculation
OOPS! I knew there was something different about that notation, but I didn't know what. Monkey King wrote: On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, Lincoln Ross wrote: You must live at a very LOW altitude, as the air density you give is greater than that of water. Try 1.225kg/m^3, not 1,225! That's just a difference in European notation. Commas and points are reversed between European and U.S. notation. So his numbers are (fortunately) not off by three orders of magnitude. -J snip RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: hi start crashes
Wing warps? Maybe you need to throw harder (and not too steeply either)? Maybe the cg is more conservative than the towhook position? THese go together. If you have a forward cg, you need more up elevator in normal flight, which makes problems when you launch unless you move the tow hook further forward, in which case you just get lower launches. Maybe you're expecting a higher launch angle than you should and pull up too much on launch? (See above about conservative tow hook loacations as they affect launch height (and, of course, angle).) You might try just a small (and I mean small) touch of down elevator or at least less up elevator when the plane goes wacky. I had a friend who was absolutely sure his Drifter 2 was gone as it started to spin in the wind on the high start. I couldn't convince him to use down elevator, and it took me a while to get him to hand me the transmitter, but fortunately it was high up. Just dived it out of the spin and resumed the climb. In general, a bit of down when you are having control problems is a good habit, because the increased airspeed makes the controls more powerful and unstalls the wing. However, if your high start is strong you don't want to use a lot of down for long, as the plane will go too fast and flutter. Use just enough to stop the stall. If you start messing with the CG and towhook, do it in small increments, say 1/8 or a bit more at a time. I think in general, cg and towhook position instructions are overly conservative, particularly on beginner airplanes, on the theory that someone who doesn't know better should be safe and someone who does will know what to do after the first flight. The Spirit is kind of short coupled so it is more squirrelly than other airplanes, especially when slow or near stall, though the marketing budget makes up for this in the ways that are important to Great Planes. brian wrote: snipspirit arf snip refuses to go straight up on a high start launch. always veers to right or left and pops off when i try to correct. the last one actually drove it into the ground and smashed the crap out of it. i've got the hook in the safe position (furthest forward) and the plane glides straight and long from a hand launch. cg is, according to the instructions, correct. any ideas why this might be happening? thanks. brian -- Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] 8uafs and hitec rx?
Simple radios can be decent. If it has a dual conversion receiver and nicads, you will probably always have a use for it. I have been in this hobby since 1984 and I keep messing around with simple airplanes and radios, whether I also have a contest setup at the time or not. A Hitec 3 channel with a 555 RX is probably perfectly adequate. I have several Vision 4 channels, but they aren't made anymore. Besides, which tx would you rather drop when you hurl an hlg and slip on the wet grass! BTW, all those bells and whistles are distracting! If you must keep up with the Joneses, please ignore the above. P.S. which glider? Brian Stutters wrote: snip i've just finished my first glider (and first r/c plane in general), and have recently been looking for a radio to stick in it. i've had enough people tell me not to play around with a simple radio and just get a decent one right off the bat that i've decided to find a used 8uafs (or version thereof) and just wait a bit longer while i get together the added dough. snip -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: What if....
Straight back is probably best, with two possible exceptions. If you are having trouble seeing the plane, or controlling its pitch attitude, you may see this better if you come back at a bit of an angle. As long as the angle is not very large you won't lose all that much. Also, lift may be easier to detect if the plane is at a bit of an angle. But if seeing is not a problem, and there are no expected lift sources away from the line of flight, then coming straight back is probably best. The sailboat case is completely irrelevant unless you have large winglets, a skeg, and are comfortable flying very low. (If you're a real pessimist, there's always the theory of flying over the pasture instead of the swamp, river, and cornfield.) Bill wrote: You find yourself way down wind and way high up with an unballasted plane and gotta head back into a moderate head wind. You can head directly into the wind on a straight line back or you can tack back and forth like a sailboat against the wind. Time is not an issue. Which technique will get you closer to home with minimal loss of altitude? -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Speaking of power lines
I used to attend, I think it was in Pennsylvania, a contest that was held in a field that had very tall high tension lines RIGHT ON THE FIELD. I once bounced a 134 plane with a carbon spar off the top wire, which I think is uncharged for lightning protection purposes. If I had hit it squarely and the model had pivoted and slid on the wire until it bridged the power lines and the upper wire, it could have been spectacular. A wood glider got stuck on a lower wire later and made some strange buzzing noises. Glad that one didn't have much carbon in it. I wonder if they ever had a big problem in later years. -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Safety Code
I think it's really strange that this rule is coming up at the same time that AMA is easing up on 55lb planes (see the AMA website). I think there is no comparision of risk here. I seem to recall being hit by foamies and slow flyers but these were all non-events. It's the hits on people by hard airplanes that are memorable. THe details of the flying site, parking, where people are standing, etc. are what determine safety in slope combat. Perhaps I haven't been around the really intense events, but it seems to me that an injury from a Zagi is a pretty far fetched event. The only way to be completely safe from injuries is preemptive suicide. And that's assuming one does a thorough job! The scary events and injuries I've seen in aeromodelling involved: propellors (very common), pilots out of control with relatively heavy, fast airplanes, flying over people with hard airplanes (often due to lack of awareness of where the plane is), and structural failure (a wingless sailplane fuse falling from winch height is a very scary spear, especially if you are close enough to hear it) . (I'm not counting the time we had a man carrying craft dead stick onto the field during a contest.) I'll bet within a few years we will see soft, bounceable, pusher slow flyers that would be perfect for combat (electric Zagis have already been used this way). The rule will be really absurd if it bans 5 oz planes going 10mph. BTW, has anyone confirmed this proposal or is it a rumor? I haven't sent out my letter yet as I don't want to cry wolf. Martin Usher Don't forget that combat foamies are not just foam slope planes. They have to have nothing hard like the battery or servos within about 2 inches of the front of the plane. They're going to hit things, we just want to make sure they don't hurt what they hit. While everyone's thinking about this topic it might be a good idea to cloak those Web sites that show movie clips of DS planes trying to break the sound barrier while flying right in front of everyones' noses. The AMA might get the idea that's its dangerous. (It isn't, is it?) Isn't it typical. Everyone knows that all the really fun stuff in life is either illegal, immoral, fattening or just plain dangerous. Its amazing that the human race has survived as long as it has. -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] re: pushrod size
we need to know size and shape of control surface and also expected speed of plane. Also, is this pushrod straight and in line with the load? Even at that, I'm not going to make any guesses unless it seems similar to a plane I'm familiar with. My guess is this would be ok for something like a Zagi. arne wrote: hi! is a 1mm piano wire suitable for 4.5cm long elevon pushrod? it will go on the top of the wing, so when coming out of dive (the speed and forces are then greatest) it will work for tension. arne -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: FVK's new Saga DLG
Round pegs are a terribly draggy shape. I can imagine something answering to the description of fence which would have considerably less drag. Joedy Drulia wrote: snip I'm looking for a close-up photograph of the wing tip fence. The image in the magazine does not reveal enough detail for understanding. Has anyone heard what the rationale for not using a throwing peg on this plane? Do the european fellas have rules against throwing pegs? Joedy Drulia Shenandoah Valley, VA -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Plug wood
Poplar is very pleasant to sand and generally to work with. An important point. Of course, that's because it's a little soft. For foam, Plazamate or Highload 60 can be sanded to a suitable, very smooth finish without any filler. Of course you would probably have to make a female mold immediately as they probably wouldn't survive for more than one part. -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Flexable covering for twisting wings?
Don't fly very fast, or it will be a recipe for flutter, which can destroy airplanes very quickly. Make the control linkage as rigid as you can. OTOH, don't fly very slowly, as wingeron airplanes can experience severe adverse yaw, and I'd expect twisted wings to do the same, tho of course using a lot of rudder helps fight this. snip At 03:46 PM 5/31/02 -0500, Jack Stensgaard wrote: Hi all, I really like the idea of twisting a wing to provide roll control from an aerodynamic perspective. Does anybody out there have any opinions on this? Has it been done recently? snip -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Servo Chatter
I had a plane that did this, though the wiring was different. Small ceramic caps between the signal and ground leads, right next to the servos, seemed to cure the problem. It wasn't really a problem in flight anyway, because it only occured close to the transmitter. As soon as I released the model, the surfaces settled down. Michael Martz wrote: -- I just got an old RnR Nova flying and for some reason the servos chatter constantly. I have a 1400mah 5 cell pack in it. I tried a voltage regulator and it did nothing..then switched to a 4 cell pack..still the same. One thing I did was put the wing servo wires in a big long brass tube (all I could find at the time) but im not sure if that would cause any issues. Any help would be appreciated. -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Using music wire for spoiler return
My Sagitta is set up this way. Use pretty thin wire, I'm guessing .025 for a 2M? Make up a piece that's a little shorter than the spoiler bay, with a parallel, short right angle bit at each end. Fasten one end to the bottom of the spoiler and the other to a rib, so that it pulls the spoiler into the bay in normal position. I think you might have to make a little notch for the wire in the ribs or spoiler, but not much of one. Seems to work fine; haven't had any trouble. Stan wrote: Some years back I saw tip on using small diameter music wire to create a torque rod to return spoilers. Anybody use it and how did it work? Stan -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: ??? Radio Failure
AM has nothing to do with it. You can't get them anymore, I don't think, but I have an AM receiver that works very well. However, it is a DUAL CONVERSION AM receiver, not a single conversion. There is a huge difference between single and dual conversion. On 75 mhz there is a local RC boat pond where, since the installation of a new, large antenna of some kind nearby, single conversion gets hit all the time, while dual conversion works fine. I had major disasters with single conversion at contests around 1991. Anyway, I have seen these Hitec AM jobs work ok most of the time. Before going crazy, have you checked CG and elevator throw? Elevator linkage stiffness? Stab stiffness? Tony ? wrote: Message text written by Robert Marlan Range check fine. Used our field monitor scanner - it picked up nothing.= = I was the only one at the field on ch 44. Doubt interference as I was so close to the plain during all this... Hi Robert, = You did mean AM Hitec radio? an AM receiver is very susceptible to interference -even close to the plane, which can come at any time from many different sources even tractors, older cars etc! I think you'll find= that nobody who flies seriously would even dream of using an AM system!= I wouldn't! Get an FM system fast! -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Beginner Sailplane...which one???
was winch launching a Spirit for a fellow novice! Unfortunately, I didn't fully appreciate that we were launching with a 6-8mph TAIL wind, which meant I should have initially launched more aggressively than normal, to ensure a reasonable starting air speed. The result was that the ship never really got flying and it stalled off to the left and crashed, causing severe damage! Preventable by a strong throw at first and by not pulling up too much, and of course by a bit speedier use of winch. I've observed that most beginners (including me, way back when) don't throw hard enough. A Spirit with the correct joiner fixes should take a hard launch, but crashing and replacing with a good plane improves it a great deal. I think the moral here is to try to work up to this slowly with someone to advise. Also previous to that, on launching my own 2m ploy Gently Lady, it popped off the hook early, fly right into the sun; but I somehow managed to get it upright but when tryi= ng to quickly land a gust caught it, and it flipped over causing the fin to break! Usually this means you were flying too slow. When landing in wind with a floater, keep a small amount of extra speed. Of course I'm sure any leftover disorientation from the sun didn't help. Helps to set hook so you don't need to pull up elevator when launching, but move toward this a little bit at a time (3/16?). -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Beginner Sailplane...which one???
THis is an oversimplification, unless you are comparing a Spirit to a foamie. A good wood trainer is much easier to fly than a foamie because it is much slower. I would rate them about even if you have an instructor. Learing process will generally be faster with wood, but you can be more agressive with a foamie. A good instructor can greatly reduce your crashes. Of course a computer simulator never breaks (except due to negligence on part of evil empire) and can be set to fly slowly. P.S. Beware of workmanship (especially inappropriate wood grain in critical places) on some ARF's, but some are good, and reduced emotional involvement compared to bulding your own may make you less nervous. P.P.S. other choice might be park flyer. Some are quite bounceable, but more dollars to get started and not good soarers, tho it can be done when there isn't too much wind. (GWS DH82) Randy Bullard wrote: If you are just beginning, your choices are: Balsa = fly, crash, repair, repair, repair; fly, crash, repair, repair, repair and so on until you give up or learn. Foam = fly, crash, dust it off, fly, crash, laugh, dust if off, fly, crash, laugh some more and so forth until you learn. Tough choice. Randy -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Launches are terrible
One trick that helped me was to stomp on the switch and then throw as hard as I could, horizontally, before too much tension built up. This gets you some airspeed before you get lots of line tension trying to pull the nose up. You might try throwing the model without a winch until you can throw level and far. It's important here to start with your arm extended back, although this can feel strange at first. Otherwise you have much less distance available for your arm to accelerate the plane. I don't know how many people I've seen just lightly toss the model in a manner guaranteeing a stall and crash if the winch line wasn't pulling. This technique does require careful timing and probably reduces height just a bit, but it helped on an 85oz plane with 134 span and a deep fuselage. Another suggestion is that if you have a deep fuselage (i.e. Mantis) you may need to have the hook forward more than for a shallow fuselage. If you don't have elevator compensation for the flaps, you won't be able to use much, if any flap on launch. You might also want to carefully check your towhook to be sure it is not mounted with a slant, and to be sure it doesn't bend when you pull on it. Dave Seay wrote: snip I've had about 75% of my launches end in pop-offs. snip HELP! Dave -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: I'm afraid of my sailplane
Seems like if you had to add down trim just to fly around, that may have been the problem right there. Generally, if you get in trouble after launch it helps to put the nose down a little to regain flying speed and control authority. Make sure you have those four clicks in next time! Sometimes on big 6 servo models it helps to use the rudder (by itself) heavily to control yaw. On my Anthem(85 oz, 134, deep fuselage), this was very necessary, especially on a high start. I wasn't strong enough to pull it hard enough for a steady high start. A really hard, level throw can help, and on a strong hi start this is not easy. I'd have guessed the hi start was weak, but it doesn't sound like it from what you wrote later. It's still better to do the test flight of a big plane on a winch, if convienient. If your left thumb (rudder control) is dumb, you might want to get help for a little while. Pete S. wrote: I believe I have bit off more than I can chew by investing in the fun that comes with a full house glider. I've got a Condor (NSP variety, not MPX or Slegers) that I thought I was ready to histart. Set initial CG per Sal (43% back from LE) A hand launch of this seemed sufficiently stable. Towhook is 1/8 in front of that. No launch presets. Controls all neutral. First launch veered left and popped off about 30 feet up, going fast. Managed to pull out before a stall and fly the pattern. Required 4 clicks down ele to keep a glide, otherwise she'd pitch up to stall. My questions are many, but my most nagging query is: What? I'm scared to launch this thing again. Does any of this sound familiar? Could use a little help. Thanks a bunch, Pete -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Portland??
If you're talking about THE Portland, that's a lng way to go in a small plane. Too bad, because there are some nice slope soaring spots, one of which is even in town. If you're talking about Portland, Oregon, I can't help you. (I once rode an extra 20 minutes in a car because the driver was trying to get back to Boston, which he knew was near the water. He was from the west coast so he went west because he knew that's always where the water is.) Charles Miller wrote: Good Morning Any Portland sites for soaring or sloping.. My friend can commute by small plane from Vancouver to get there. Please let me know, Thanks in advance! Cheers Charlie -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Ace Silver Series Tx - Gold sticker?
THere's some kind of a board for updating Ace radio gear at: www.fmadirect.com B^2 wrote: We have come into possession of an Ace Silver Series single stick transmitter (Channel 52). The case is red, if that's an important piece of information. Can this transmitter meet gold sticker specifications? If it will, we'll buy new batteries for it and get it checked out. Otherwise it goes into our antique radios archives. -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] elmers probond - wish I were teasing, but...
Again, Probond is just a brand. There are many different Probond glues, I think. I have even seen Probond aliphatic. You probably got urethane construction adhesive, which will be very viscous, instead of the thinner Probond urethane glue, which comes in a squeeze bottle, and behaves as described below, tho it might be even thinner. This applicator is meant to be used with a caulking gun. You cut off the tip with a knife, pierce the inner membrane with the stabber thingy on the gun, then install it in the gun and squeeze. Still probably not good for a plane. If you're into cheap homemade boats, tho, it's probably great stuff. Douglas, Brent wrote: ok, I broke down and bought some Elmers ProBond last nite, wanted to try it out - will use it to do a spar in a foam wing, but how do you open it?? this stuff comes in a metal tube, has an applicator tip like caulk do you cut the top off, then pull it up? does the plastic cap pull off the applicator? anyone? Never used that stuff. The brand I use comes in a normal plastic squeeze bottle like carpenter's glue. It is brown in color, and flows like honey. You may have gotten a contractor's version. -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Insidious costs of this R/C sailplane sport, rules mods.
While I agree that things are getting too sophisticated and expensive, if you follow your argument logically, we should all eat beans and rice and play with only paper airplanes until we are 60. In my case, doing well in competition in '89 gave me the confidence in myself to go back to school and complete my degree. Actually, it was even more satisfying because I was using a simple airplane against Windsongs. The travel is what really cost. But it kept me off the streets and I finally got that degree out of the way. How much was that worth? Also, many people who buy $1000 airplanes would probably also invest in something like CMGI, or even Enron. Where would that leave them? If in a conservative bank account, I assume you remember inflation in the 80's? THen there's the people who croak early. There's a middle ground here. I suspect, at least in the Boston area, we aren't getting too many people with $28k salaries buying super ships. NOt unless they're still living with Mom. I'd sure enjoy participating in a design-your-own contest, but not because it's cheap, and not because I'd have a chance. There's just no way to be competitive in design without being both obsessive and a brilliant engineer, which ain't necessarily cheap, tho possibly renumerative in other ways. My goal would be to be almost competitive in design and to make that up with better flying. In a year or two, as a certain unnamed designer gets more flying experience, that will not be feasible. Anyway, with a year or two's notice and a reasonable expectation of a large number of participants, it would probably be a great event. I guess we might get 5 flyers in our club, instead of 15 or 20. Your point about cost is well taken, but a bit over the top. I think RES events will help in this department a little. And I don't think we will see an ARF RES which will outperform a Bubble Dancer for many years. Flying is a separate skill from designing or building, and I take a certain pride in it. Harley wrote: snip At only 6% average return, that $1,000 would double 3 times by retirement age in your mid-60's. Thus $1,000 becomes $2,000 becomes $4,000 becomes $8,000. Rules applicable to such instruments allow you to take an interest income at retirement on the accumulated valued, reporting it only as taken. $8,000 at only 6% means $480 a year for life then. With a 20 year life expectancy, 20 x $480 means $9,600 interest would be collected, on average, and still leave the accumulated $8,000 to pass on to someone important in your life, if you haven't already ruined your chances for that by being too gung ho in this game. Bottom line, that single $1,000 plane is systematically stealing almost $18,000 of possible resources away while causing you further expenses for travel, entry fees, food and lodging, potential loss of wages while not tending to business, usually with not even the remotest chance for any return for any of the money spent. Now think of the effect of multiple such purchases. You can easily get in 10 grand and fritter away $180,000! snip In the light of the above, if there is any change to be made in rules, it should be so sane people can still fly, compete and have fun at modest cost. If anything, I would opt to make it possible for sensible people to be able to participate in an entirely new Do-it-Yourself class, entirely separate from the manufactured stuff. They would be recognized for competence and skill in design, setting up, flying, competing, etc. and out of respect for those capabilites be put in line for the best possible awards. It escapes me how anyone can take any pride in showing up with something for which they can take no credit for in its creation. It should be possible to get off this ridiculous roller coaster so many have become swept up in thinking they need to buy their way to become or stay fashionable or competitive. If fortunes fail, you are done. If you have skills, you can still play. Harley Michaelis, 26 S. Roosevelt, Walla Walla, WA 99362, ph. (509) 529-2562 -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] DLG finger pegs
I believe the 40 lbs, but we're only talking a beam that is cantilevered about .7 or so, aren't we? I'd figure the stress if I had my Machinery's Handbook handy or if I had worked with beam theory more recently. I just picked up a winch battery with two popsicle sticks under the handle and two fingers on each one (i.e. as you would hold a dlg). Seems like just a little thicker and it would do the job, and be very easy to streamline. Or is that too heavy? I've got to think it would be a fraction of a gram, or so my guesstimate calculations say (.06 X .25 X 1.5, 45lb/ft^3, .27g) Joe Jan Wurts wrote: By my calcs (and sore fingers to testify), a good launch will get about 40 lbs or more of pull on the tip. It is really hard to get wood to take this amount of loading. As to the lower drag solution of the streamlined shapes, this is attractive, excepting that it is hard to do, and still keep light. Low yaw inertia is very important in a DLG, and the streamlined peg adds weight. Joe - Original Message - From: Lincoln Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] DLG finger pegs I don't understand why everyone makes these things so strong! It only has to be stronger than your fingers, doesn't it? Why not wood (say, maple, spruce, bamboo)? And why not carved in a nice, low drag shape instead of the circular cross section which is about as draggy as you can get? I haven't made my dlg yet, tho. John Erickson wrote: Rick, snip For the peg itself solid carbon rod, about 3/16 D. seems to be popular. I've seen some that are a more aerodynamic shape and if you are trying to squeeze everything out of the plane, that is worth investigating. I did one where I crushed a 3/8 D. aluminum tube in a vise and then put a rod on the inside for support, and filled the void with microballoons. Nice shape, but too heavy. You really don't want any weight out at the tips. You probably could also take something like the old 1/2 carbon wing joiner that you broke when you switched from Mode 2 to Mode 1 during a flight (that wasn't you? Oh yeah, that was me with my Edge...) and sand away till you get a foiled peg. Pretty messy job. Carbon fiber dust has to be right up there with asbestos as far as health quality goes. Maybe laminating some strips of pre-preg might work, too. I'm sure there are many ideas (and attempts) at a foiled peg. JE -- Erickson Architects John R. Erickson, AIA -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] DLG finger pegs
Here's an idea: if you can use a disposable material for your peg, just put a loose hole in the tip and let the peg drop away after launch. I suppose this could be annoying in contests with lots of people nearby, tho. brent wrote: and i guess, why a peg? i've seen several german sites, and they use indentations, or even holes has anyone here experimented with that? the nicer ones are about dime sized, maybe a quarter to a half inch deep i think that would be a nice alternative. just wanted to stir things up, brent -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Yet another alternative launch method
If the sun is out, and high enough, you can tell your altitude by looking at the shadow of your plane. THis can also tell you you're in trouble just before you land in that leafy tree. Jeff wrote: Flying from a balloon might be fun until it was time to land. Reminds me of the first time I flew my sailplane from a slope with no wind. I thought to myself, Heck, I'll have a perfect bird's eye view to land it!! I was amazed at just how long it flew after I SWORE it had to be a couple of feet from the ground. Hey, you could probably thermal the balloon if you could see through the top! hehe. Jeff -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: S3014 Airfoil question
Why not steal a Drela airfoil? He's got some high performing ones, including mostly flat bottomed with flat facets on the upper back (for open bay construction behind the spar). Check out the airfoils on the Bubble Dancer on the Allegro-Lite yahoo group. If you use his construction methods, you'll have a light, strong wing, which will help with the floater part. And what's wrong with the 3021? Apparently it's closer to the 7037 UIUC wind tunnel model than the 7037 is. I think with the choices you mention it will be hard to notice the difference, considering the other factors involved. But I haven't flown the 3014. Jeff wrote: Hey all, I have a question about the S3014 airfoil. A friend is giving me an old Jouster fuse w/ fin and stab, and I'm trying to figure out what kind of airfoil to put on it. I'm not really looking for a hot-rod here as this will be my first full-house 3m ship. At this point, I'm interested in it being more of a floater then a fast ship with long legs. but I'd rather not use a totally flat bottomed foil. I know that you can't really make statements like the x airfoil will outperform the y airfoil, and that's not what I'm after. I'd just like to know what the general characteristics (and pros and cons) of a couple airfoils are. I'm considering the S3014, SD4061, or an SD7037. I know the 7037 is VERY popular, but I'm trying to shy away from it because I want something that behaves a little differently then all the rest of the ships around here. So if anyone could tell me the differences in behavior that these three airfoils provide, I would greatly appreciate it!! Thanks in advance. Jeff -- Lincoln Ross RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
