[LUTE] Re: So, what you consider a "must have" publication?
Siena or Capirola? Casteliano's Diversi Autori or a Francesco facsimile? Paladino or Il Fronimo? An earlier Phalese or an Adriaenssen? The Dowland, de Rippe or Francesco anthologies? Marsh or Pickering? The big Besard or the Varietie? LoST or the Holmes books? Mary Anne or Ginger? There's lot's to be learned from the non-first choices: eg. Wickhambrook. Short, sweet, many top shelf John Johnson pieces though hardly a desert island choice for length or number of composers represented (but certainly a bargain at the UK L.S.). My advice: for every big name, take a chance on an obscure one. It's like "How do you stop eating a bag of corn chips?". Just finish the whole bag and the problem is solved. You don't put a lot of effort into which one to start with, do you? Believe me, begin anywhere and in 30 years you'll chuckle over this question, too. Sean On Oct 18, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Daniel Winheld wrote: This depends entirely on what kind of music you like. ..and when in the lute player's life the question is asked. Right now I'm in the worst throes of a Weiss relapse that I've ever experienced. The London and Dresden Mss. (unpublications, by definition) are the most must haves. If my temperature returns to normal then my homemade cut & paste tab only performing versions of Ness' Francesco, CNRS' da Rippe, Poulton's Dowland and of course the LoST. Also Fuenllana (but I hate the "edition" I'm stuck with, J.P.Paladin, and Julien Belin. Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: plucked (and plonked) trio
Hi Stuart, Margit actually flew out to the LSA seminar in Ohio a few years ago to play duos with Crawford. Yes, it's in the hammered dulcimer family, yep, sure sounds great and believable in that context and, oh yeah, is she ever in control! It looks like a pretty versatile instrument and very overlooked. I'd think most of the lute rep would be available: certainly tenors with whomever, formal ensemble music and I'm sure they made solo arrangements of popular vocal or ensemble music. The latter could range from tenor-contrapunto settings, to (mostly) strict 3-part settings of their own --just like the lute rep. Furthermore, if its metal strings and good simple solid body was as portable as the lute and twice as durable I'm sure there were those that took advantage and specialized in it. There's a guy here in Berkeley who's been playing one on street corners for 30 years. I'm pretty sure that for some of it it was keeping him fed. A tradition that goes back centuries, if not millenia, in hammered dulcimer circles. Sean On Oct 21, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote: http://www.lewon.de/inhalt/projekte/ensembles_dulce.php?navbat=03 Ont this page, under 'Tonbeispiele' there are three pieces, including one by Obrecht, 'Nec mihi nec tibi'. Jon Banks claims that this Obrecht untexted chanson was actually conceived and composed for three plucked instruments but here in this Ensemble Dulce Melos version the three instruments are: ? at least one plucked thing and, surprisingly what seems to be a hammered dulcimer. The three instruments create a strange sound; very nice, very beguiling. I was really surprised to hear a hammered dulcimer (if it is one) in this context (of quite sophisticated polyphony) and the as can be heard, the player (Margit Übellacker) is in complete command. The instrument Margit Übellacker is playing is described as a dulce melos, after Henri Arnault de Zwolle: fully chromatic over 3 octaves. But Margit sounds like she is playing with hammers and Henri is definitely sniffy about hammers and his dulce melos proper has an elaborate keyboard mechanism. Iconography of 15th century hammered dulcimers suggests long, thin instruments with a limited range but Margit's instrument looks a monster by contrast. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Dowland - LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyLjQdLMYpg JD works it some more. Popstars got his thumb in the door; now it's time to break out the big tools: i-memes and jib-jab. N ur strngbox, nibblng spgtti, smthy To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dowland - LOL
Hoops, mon. TCamp. Cute-glaze, addled brain. s On Oct 22, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Sean Smith wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyLjQdLMYpg JD works it some more. Popstars got his thumb in the door; now it's time to break out the big tools: i-memes and jib-jab. N ur strngbox, nibblng spgtti, smthy To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Strange-Gregory-Hitts -->John Robinson
I'd also like to put in a few words of appreciation for John Robinson's tremendous output. Rather than looking at the Amazing Amount I'd like to focus on one small representative side. In the most recent LSA Quarterly there is a collection of pieces by Antonio Rota found in manuscript sources. I had bought the Minkoff facsimile years ago and had my favorites but this article (simply: as others further disseminated his music) adds a complementary understanding of his importance in contemporary circles. Ok, so I'm just one person getting a better grip on what others would consider an 'also-ran' composer. But it's the larger collection of many, many players such as this that make up the world of lute playing in comparison to the cream of the crop we often demand. For my money it's the global significance of many players that is defining to many listeners both then and now. From what I've seen many times in the UK and US LS publications Mr. Robinson has been regularly doing this --and more-- for scores of composers (of large footprints and small) for many years. Dowland books/CDs/performances/theses are seemingly a dime-a-dozen these days but it's this long, slow slog of work that starts to illustrate the music that was played all those times when Dowland (or deRippe, Francesco, etc) couldn't be booked for the performance, ie: what most people heard. It has taken years to get this far and we're all the richer for it. Thanks, John! Sean Smith On Nov 12, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Peter Martin wrote: John's achievement is even more staggering when you see it all listed in one place: [1]http://www.lutesoc.co.uk/pages/john-robinson and then realise that he also has a day job as a professor of immunology [2]http://www.ncl.ac.uk/biomedicine/research/groups/profile/j.h.robinso n Respect. P 2009/11/12 Stuart Walsh <[3]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> Talking of 'Lute News', every issue has a supplement of pieces edited by John H. Robinson. The latest is "Twenty Continental Preludes and Exercisesfrom CUL MS 3056." He must have edited hundreds and hundreds of pieces over the years. Anyway, in 2000 Lute News no56, "Lute Music Ascribed or Dedicated to John Whitfield, Greene and Southwell", the second piece has this very strange title: "Mr Strange Gregory hitts J. Whitfield". And it's a nice little piece (a galliard?) - and it's not too difficult. A lot of the music in these supplements is tough going. In the scholarly notes, it is explained that this isn't really the title. It's not by (or for?) J. Whitfield. The title just is: "Mr Strange Gregery hitts" (Or "Mr Strange Gregery hills"). So (?) this might mean a man called Gregory Strange from a place abbreviated as hitts or hills? Anyway again, the first strain (of three) has only seven 'bars'. Is this likely in English lute music of this period? I just wonder if after bar 5 there could be a bar missing? I do try all the pieces in these supplements and I'm amazed at John H. Robinson's achievement. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.lutesoc.co.uk/pages/john-robinson 2. http://www.ncl.ac.uk/biomedicine/research/groups/profile/j.h.robinson 3. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Test + Glasses for reading music
Dear Anthony, I recommend the close to medium prescription for lute playing and this should differ slightly from a regular reading prescription. When you next go to get glasses tell them you want reading glasses for a specific distance. Measure your eyeball to music stand distance before you go. Have them make their prescription for that distance and dedicate these for your lute playing. A competent optometrist will make two adjustments to your prescription: the focus at that distance and the parallax (the distance from the centers of the lenses changes as you look at close objects to further objects. In other words, as you look at closer objects your eyes "cross" and allowance should be made for this. Of course, the distance decreases for closer objects; at infinity the centers are the same distance as the centers of your pupils. It may seem negligible but can be a source of eye strain and headache if not addressed.) I don't believe the progressive lenses always take parallax into account though I might be wrong. I've only recently entered the world of Needingglassess but have worked in optics for a few years. Always the optimist, Sean On Nov 21, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Anthony Hind wrote: Dear Lutenists I was having problems sending messages from my usual mail, so I am trying out my Yahoo Mail. Rather than just making a test, I wonder whether any of you can help me relating to suitable glasses for reading music. I understand that the usual progressive glasses are almost useless, because of their narrow field of view, and it has been suggested that I try degressive lenses (close to middle distance). Have any of you tried these? I was told that they maintain an excellent field of view, and could be as good, or better than single purpose (music reading or computer) lenses. This obviously means, I will also need either long view glasses or progressive lenses for normal outdoor use. Any experience with these degressive lenses would be of interest to me. Regards Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
I have a medical prescription for 6 courses or less. Adequate. Sean On Dec 11, 2009, at 7:59 AM, howard posner wrote: I just want to remind everyone that operating a theorbo while under the influence of alcohol is not only illegal, but extremely dangerous. Sorry for the interruption. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Holiday Theorbo Time!
Very nice, Chris! and congratulations on the solstice(-ish) arrivals. s On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:14 AM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, Its that time again - time for eggnog, fruitcake, extended time with extended family, desperate last minute trips to the mall... and of course, theorbo music! Here are two clips of (just in time) seasonal theorbo offerings: My arrangement of "It Came Upon a Midnight Clear" con variazione http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDg56TnhdV4 Robert de Visee's setting of the French Noel, "Je me suis leve par un martinet" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqmY_kYg39A Enjoy! Here's wishing you the happiest of holidays! Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Board ms
I haven't seen any modern editions. Are you looking for any pieces in particular? It's a pretty legible book but hard to find. Happy New year, Leonard --and all ;^) Sean On Jan 4, 2010, at 3:25 PM, Leonard Williams wrote: Does any body know of a good edition of the Board Lute Book? Modern, not facsimile. Thanks and regards, Leonard Williams To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Paladin
Aha! Thanks Rainer --and Wolfgang! On Jan 28, 2010, at 1:50 AM, Spring, aus dem, Rainer wrote: Has anybody mentioned that the Paladin tablature book mentioned yesterday is bound together with Bianchini? Best wishes, Rainer aus dem Spring IT Application Services Tel.: +49 211-5296-355 Fax.: +49 211-5296-405 SMTP: rspringaus...@tee.toshiba.de __ CONFIDENTIALITY DISCLAIMER The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose outside of any NDA currently existing between Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH and yourselves. Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH Hansaallee 181 - 40549 Duesseldorf - Germany Phone: +49 (211) 5296-0 - Fax: +49 (211) 5296-400 Handelsregister Duesseldorf HRB 22487 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Hitoshi Otsuka Amtsgericht Duesseldorf -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
I counted up the pegs and got a 9-c lute: treble rider (w/ broken chanterelle)+ 6 courses on the main pegbox and 2 doubled courses on the extension. Otoh, it might be 3 doubled courses on the extension making it a 10-c, tho. 10 frets on the neck. Fitting for the time and perfect for Ballard, Vallet, airs de court. Good eye, Nancy, on the cord down the back. That would be the HIP way to do it. Sean On Feb 14, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Nancy Carlin wrote: I think one of the most interesting things about this picture is the cord with the loop going along the back of the instrument. Also the decoration along the top edge of the sides is something we fon't see in this century. Nancy At 07:31 PM 2/14/2010, Nicolas Valencia wrote: Hi all, I've found this lute in a painting by Jacques Linard, (France, 1600-1645). It's called "The Five Senses and the Four Elements", so I guess the lute represents hearing. What kind of lute is this? [1][1] http://www.wga.hu/art/l/linard/senses.jpg Best, Nicolas -- References 1. [2]http://www.wga.hu/art/l/linard/senses.jpg To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - [4]www.nancycarlinassociates.com Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant & Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe & Jez Lowe & The Bad Pennies, FROM SPAIN - La Musgana and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, Paul Beier, The Good Pennyworths & Morrongiello & Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [5]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.wga.hu/art/l/linard/senses.jpg 2. http://www.wga.hu/art/l/linard/senses.jpg 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 5. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
Something else comes to mind about the curious pegboxes. If one was updating a 6-c for 9/10 courses, it would make sense to reuse the old 6-c pegbox. That would explain the different angles. Yes, the neck would be new as would be the extension pegbox but why remake the other pegbox if it wasn't necessary? With better resolution we may see a difference in the pegs and maybe also the shape of the neck going up to the auxilliary pegbox. s On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Nicolás Valencia wrote: Hi all, I've found this lute in a painting by Jacques Linard, (France, 1600-1645). It's called "The Five Senses and the Four Elements", so I guess the lute represents hearing. What kind of lute is this? [1]http://www.wga.hu/art/l/linard/senses.jpg Best, Nicolas -- References 1. http://www.wga.hu/art/l/linard/senses.jpg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
An archcittern, Gernot? That broken chanterelle curls like gut to my eye. Sean On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:51 AM, Gernot Hilger wrote: Hi Franz, the instrument in this pic is of course not a lute, but an archcittern. Looks like a Hamburger Cithrinchen with extended bass range. Gernot Zitat von Franz Mechsner : Hi, Wasting some time one may collect tons of "strange" lutes from the internet in many variations, the most strange one I found so far is this: Try [1]http://www.klassiskgitar.net/imagesr1.html I am refering to the the Painting "Young Lady with Lute" by Racinet which might require some consideration regarding the instrument as well as how it is held... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
So it is. Racinet's is certainly a citterncreature. Sean On Feb 15, 2010, at 5:43 AM, Gernot Hilger wrote: Dear Sean, unless I am very much mistaken, you are speaking of the Linard Vanitas. I was referring to the pic Franz had linked to. The other picture is too small to see any chanterelle. Or do you once again have a mousepad with better resolution by any chance? Gernot Zitat von Sean Smith : An archcittern, Gernot? That broken chanterelle curls like gut to my eye. Sean On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:51 AM, Gernot Hilger wrote: Hi Franz, the instrument in this pic is of course not a lute, but an archcittern. Looks like a Hamburger Cithrinchen with extended bass range. Gernot Zitat von Franz Mechsner : Hi, Wasting some time one may collect tons of "strange" lutes from the internet in many variations, the most strange one I found so far is this: Try [1]http://www.klassiskgitar.net/imagesr1.html I am refering to the the Painting "Young Lady with Lute" by Racinet which might require some consideration regarding the instrument as well as how it is held... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
What kind of glue are you using on those parsnips? Remember, the organic ones need longer clamping time. s On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Daniel Winheld wrote: Damn it, I want to see Gonzalo's oboe again. The last time we had parsnips they were much too tough, and the finger holes didn't help a bit. I think David was kidding about the oboe (hence the :) sign). The objects Dan describes do not resemble any oboe da caccia I've seen. The goldish-colored "oboe" part looks like a pestle, and the similarly-colored round object is more than likely the mortar or similar dish. It can't be the bell of a wind instrument (the oboe da caccia is so named because it has a flaring bell resembling a horn, or "corno da caccia"), because it has a bottom, which would of course stop the air flow completely and cause the oboist to explode. In any event, Linard apparently died around 1645, before the Hotteterres developed the oboe, and probably 50 or 60 years before the oboe da caccia. David may have been noticing that the parsnip at the lower right edge of the table appears to have finger holes like a wind instrument. But of course the parsnip was a single-reed instrument. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
Thanks for sending in the photo, Alexander. I think this is an important lute for the archives showing a good transitional solution. ... and a lute I wouldn't mind finding on my dining room table. The music is very legible, too. I'm sorry I don't know enough song rep to figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised if it had a sense- allegorical theme. Sean On Feb 15, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Alexander Batov wrote: What always puzzled me in this picture is that some of the frets (which seem to appear to be double ...?), starting from the third, look as a kind of 'split' from the middle and down towards the edge of the neck. The painter didn't 'confirm' this feature in the mirror reflection of the neck, although one of the frets there looks slanted rather oddly. Here is what I'm talking about, plus also an enlarged fragment of the music page which can perhaps be, with some luck, deciphered and tried on your flute or, indeed, pestle-oboe :) http://www.vihuelademano.com/current/pages/J.Linard-fivesenses.html Sorry about a not quite pin-sharp quality of the picture - I took this photograph from the original painting in Louvre some 20 years ago with an ordinary film camera. Alexander On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:32:58 -0800 Nicolás Valencia wrote: Hi all, I've found this lute in a painting by Jacques Linard, (France, 1600-1645). It's called "The Five Senses and the Four Elements", so I guess the lute represents hearing. What kind of lute is this? [1]http://www.wga.hu/art/l/linard/senses.jpg Best, Nicolas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
It's very neat, too. But as for double frets. Do it twice! Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take off the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge side). Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on my main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready to come back to the single fret club. Sean Best wishes, Martin Martyn Hodgson wrote: The gut should be pre-stretched before fitting. Mace (1676 p 69) confirms this and provides good practical advice: ' And you will find, that the first Fret, will be ever the hardest to Tye well on, for two Reasons. First, because it is the Thickest, therefore not so ready to ply, and stretch. 2sly. Because there is but a little narrower room above It, by reason it is so near the Nutt: Therefore you must be the more careful , to stretch it very well, before you settle It.' He also recommends tying it higher (ie to wards the nut) and stretching by forcing down to its alotted position a number of times: 'Thus do it three or four times, till at last you find it stiff,' Finally he suggests a second knot to prevent any possible slipping: '... you are (after all stretching) to Tye it, of another hard Knot, and then it is firmly fast'. MH --- On Wed, 17/2/10, Christopher Stetson wrote: From: Christopher Stetson Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets To: "Lute List" Date: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010, 20:35 Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again put off refretting. While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or keeping the 1st fret really tight? Best to all, Chris. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Well, Dan, there's that special tomato knot that defies comprehension standing between me and HIP in this case. Can you imagine doing that w/ those monster 1mm 1st and 2nd frets? Brrr. I don't know if anyone answered the question on how often to change frets but I remember Jacob Herringmann saying he swapped them all out before concerts. A lot of work tho I'm sure it gets easier as time goes by. He uses singles as far as I've ever seen. But there is nothing quite as clean-sounding as a newly fretted instrument. Grant Tomlinson taught that we should have a good cradle for the lute to work with changing frets and expect to take your time. Then he mentioned Jacob did it all sitting on the couch, lickety split. Me, I'm an all afternoon kinda guy. Even new doubled frets at their best never quite sounded as clean as singles --just my opinion and I'm sure there are pros who really have it down. Personally, I think the extended surface absorbs the high frequencies. Same goes for old single frets. Sean On Feb 18, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote: Do it twice! HEY! It's the SINGLE frets that ain't HIP - look at that damn picture again- (you know, the one with the boreless Oboe Muto) Is there any known historical information about single frets? Maybe Mace mentioned them? Don't want to make trouble- just askin' Dan Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take off the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge side). Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on my main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready to come back to the single fret club. Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Hi Martin and Chris, So we're all going through a long on-again, off-again experiment with doubled frets. Interesting. I'd like to use doubled frets if that's what was done and, as usual, I expect the advantages aren't immediately obvious. For now I don't know when I'll come back to them and there are plusses though hard to define --especially at 5:30 am. Yes, I've never understood what makes the paintings' frets look smaller in diameter. I used to think it was the painters' whim but it's too prevalent to ignore. Something doesn't add up and I don't know what it is. Chris: "Once again I'll jump into hot water and point out that the old gut material had quite different physical properties than our modern reconstructions." Yes, I agree here (and this isn't meant to be any kind of slight to our stringmakers and their extensive R&D). Sean On Feb 19, 2010, at 12:04 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Hi Sean and all, Mindful of the fact that HIP frets should be double, in the late 1980s I had double frets on one of my lutes for some time. I found that I could flatten the strand nearest the nut slightly by rubbing it with my thumbnail and this speeded up the process of wearing them in. I had no trouble with unclear notes. I can't remember when or why, but eventually I went back to single frets. Then there was a discussion on this list about the virtues of double frets, including the idea that they gave a clearer and/or more sustained sound. So I was inspired to try them again (same lute) and had some trouble getting clear notes - only in one or two places, but it was enough to put me off. Perhaps I should have used Sean's double-single method (non-HIP) which allows you to have a thinner fret on the nut side and would also make it easier to separate them if you wanted to go in for a bit of tastino! I was also attracted to the idea that double frets slip less and might be more secure in terms of strings slipping sideways, because of the greater surface area in contact with the string. This was an especially attractive idea for playing slurred passages on the theorbo. When I refret the theorbo, I think I'll have to try it. It's also interesting that most players nowadays use huge frets (single) while the old guys (the Ambassadors painting, Dowland) used very thin (double) frets. Is there a connection? Best wishes, Martin Sean Smith wrote: Well, Dan, there's that special tomato knot that defies comprehension standing between me and HIP in this case. Can you imagine doing that w/ those monster 1mm 1st and 2nd frets? Brrr. I don't know if anyone answered the question on how often to change frets but I remember Jacob Herringmann saying he swapped them all out before concerts. A lot of work tho I'm sure it gets easier as time goes by. He uses singles as far as I've ever seen. But there is nothing quite as clean-sounding as a newly fretted instrument. Grant Tomlinson taught that we should have a good cradle for the lute to work with changing frets and expect to take your time. Then he mentioned Jacob did it all sitting on the couch, lickety split. Me, I'm an all afternoon kinda guy. Even new doubled frets at their best never quite sounded as clean as singles --just my opinion and I'm sure there are pros who really have it down. Personally, I think the extended surface absorbs the high frequencies. Same goes for old single frets. Sean On Feb 18, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote: Do it twice! HEY! It's the SINGLE frets that ain't HIP - look at that damn picture again- (you know, the one with the boreless Oboe Muto) Is there any known historical information about single frets? Maybe Mace mentioned them? Don't want to make trouble- just askin' Dan Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take off the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge side). Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on my main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready to come back to the single fret club. Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Good point, Alexander. There could easily be an aesthetic point to a slight bray and I confess to enjoying this aspect of double frets. Although unrelated to renaissance music as we know it, many Indian instruments like the vina, sitar and tamboura have a braying mechanism just north of the bridge. A clear ringing string is avoided in favor of a buzz that causes the ring to mutate over its timespan. In other words, a long note changes over its life adding sonic textures outside the player's control. Sean On Feb 19, 2010, at 6:54 AM, alexander wrote: Well! As the jumping into hot water already started... The double frets that we know of, came into use at the same period as the bray harp, and the "bray" attachments in virginals. Again, aesthetics of the sound, it was considered that a hard object slightly touching the string near its' cut-off point makes sustain longer, and the sound, well, more beautiful. When this effect is taken into consideration and the frets tied with this idea, and the string tension light enough for it to work, the results can be quite nice. It is certainly an important mantra: THEY WERE NOT CRAZY, they were not crazy... alexander r. Martyn, The continuing, if strange, fascination single loops seems to defy historical evidence and practical experience. Time to wake up that sleeping dog! Once again I'll jump into hot water and point out that the old gut material had quite different physical properties than our modern reconstructions. This probably explains Mace's emphasis on stretching frets before putting them on. Perhaps modern gut is hard/stiff enough to maintain its shape and allow for single frets. On the other hand, if period gut was sort of "rubbery," it would therefore need to be doubled up in order to provide enough of a substantial bump on the neck to effectively stop a string. This would in turn account for the tiny, tiny double frets seen in paintings. Chris - has experience with both double and single frets. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Hi Martin, I know you play quite a bit of this early stuff, that is, pieces that really have their roots in the previous century and have seen some of the unconventional characters found in it so may I bounce these ideas off you? Actually despite all the baroque topics I daily see here I hope there are still a few more enthousiasts out there ;^) I'm going out on a limb here but from what I gather, the Capirola pieces are all taken from the same repertory that fed the plectrum lutes. Capirola is obviously a generation later but the variety of tone colors available to plectrum would have still been in everyone's ears. This would have allowed (and encouraged) less emphasis on what we are now traditionally taught as the lute's clarity. In the back of my mind I wonder if our notions of even these standards are a red herring. Another point from the music's point of view: If we are to bring out one voice over another we can do it through volume and/or color. If all the lute/fret intersections have different colors it would be easier to emphasize as we are constantly hit w/ different colors for all the notes. Of course this leads to the question of 'If they're all different what makes anything stand out?'. I still think it works to our favor. Consider a vocal trio w/ all voices nearly identical compared to a variety of voice colors. Remember, these vocal works are rarely created in the same mold of later Parisian chansons where homogeny and repetion are the norm. Earlier works contained vocal parts with specific purposes (how the tenor relates to the cantus, etc), histories (Agricola's addition to Ghizeghem's etc etc) and textures (every human voice really is different and differs again, note to note). Also, the first lute polyphonies were originally on two instruments w/ 2 different players which again varied the tone colors. I don't think we should denigrate this buzzing string or that slightly dead fret but use them to whatever effects might work to bring out the music's --or the musician's-- character. Sorry this is a little rambling (I'm at work) but I think Capirola, Spinacino and other earlies played to this variety. best regards, Sean On Feb 19, 2010, at 1:00 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Thanks, Sean. A bray effect might be good - it sounds good on a harp, and strangely seems to increase the duration of the sound - but have you tried to achieve it with a lute? The easiest way is to thread a piece of paper or something between the strings at the bridge end of things. To get *all* the frets and open strings to buzz by simply having a low action/appropriate-sized frets is a tall order (because some notes will buzz much more than others, some will not sound at all). Is that really what Capirola had in mind? Especially since he also talks (apparently) about raising(?) the nut to bring a lute to life, or is that a misinterpretation? We have a lot to learn about this Martin Sean Smith wrote: Good point, Alexander. There could easily be an aesthetic point to a slight bray and I confess to enjoying this aspect of double frets. Although unrelated to renaissance music as we know it, many Indian instruments like the vina, sitar and tamboura have a braying mechanism just north of the bridge. A clear ringing string is avoided in favor of a buzz that causes the ring to mutate over its timespan. In other words, a long note changes over its life adding sonic textures outside the player's control. Sean On Feb 19, 2010, at 6:54 AM, alexander wrote: Well! As the jumping into hot water already started... The double frets that we know of, came into use at the same period as the bray harp, and the "bray" attachments in virginals. Again, aesthetics of the sound, it was considered that a hard object slightly touching the string near its' cut-off point makes sustain longer, and the sound, well, more beautiful. When this effect is taken into consideration and the frets tied with this idea, and the string tension light enough for it to work, the results can be quite nice. It is certainly an important mantra: THEY WERE NOT CRAZY, they were not crazy... alexander r. Martyn, The continuing, if strange, fascination single loops seems to defy historical evidence and practical experience. Time to wake up that sleeping dog! Once again I'll jump into hot water and point out that the old gut material had quite different physical properties than our modern reconstructions. This probably explains Mace's emphasis on stretching frets before putting them on. Perhaps modern gut is hard/stiff enough to maintain its shape and allow for single frets. On the other hand, if period gut was sort of "rubbery," it would therefore need to be doubled up in order to provide eno
[LUTE] Setting pieces at different pitches -was: Dowland's "Lachrimae"
Interesting, incidentally, this business of solo versions of Lachrimae in two different keys. How often does this happen? I can think off the top of my head of Danyel's Rosa and Milano's Janequin Bataille. Why did people bother doing what is in effect a complete rewrite? It goes back earlier than Milano, Peter. Why did Spinacino choose so many awkward keys where Newsidler often found an easier one? Were some of Spin's originally for 5c lute? Often the low tonic of F was expendable on a G 6c lute. Only one setting of popular D'amour me plains (in F) uses a scordatura 6th course to reach it at the price of many difficult fingerings. B.M. drops that bass note in his setting and fantasia. Belin and deRippe prefered to set it in G. Interesting that they were both published by same publisher --one a student of the other? One of the more popular secular hits, Ancor che col partir, was first intabulated by Paladin in Gmin in 1553/-60 where it fits very nicely. Most later settings are set up a tone in A (eg, V.Galilei w/ a long fantasia on it also in A). One line of inquiry might be: Had lutes grown two semitones longer/lower and this was needed to keep the pitch at the original? Or perhaps it's for the meantone G# (if tuning that fret towards the nut) on the 1st fret if you like that sort of thing -- tho VG says he doesn't-- and there are enough G#s on the 4th course to back him up. Or maybe he simply wanted to mix things up and redo the settings as his own genius could play it and others couldn't. All those Anticos (dozens and dozens!) in the Phalese/Adrianssen books --are some maybe meant as ensembles? Some of them fit surprisingly well together. Then there is Suzanne un jour in d, f, & g (others?) go figure. It's a huge can of worms. Changing instruments, personal taste, leading tones, ensemble work? There are many variables. You pays yer money, sets yer frets, writes yer theses and takes yer chances. Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Setting pieces at different pitches -was: Dowland's "Lachrimae"
On Feb 24, 2010, at 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Also one has to ask whether Francesco da Milano, brilliant though he must have been, was actually able to invent extended strict canons without recourse to mensural notation. Some of his pieces are so intricately worked that the idea that he composed them "on the lute" seems ridiculous. Not so ridiculous once we know that Palestrina composed on the lute. Did he? It may be in print but I can't picture anyone composing 5 or more voices on a lute. Then again, maybe it's easier to compose on a lute what you don't have to perform. I'll remain sceptical and believe: he wrote some compositions (some parts of compositions?) w/ his lute but there's no way we can know the extent of his composing-with-lute practice. What is the quote which deals with this? Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Setting pieces at different pitches -was: Dowland's "Lachrimae"
Thank you for the clarification. Sean On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:13 PM, John Griffiths wrote: Dear list members, the evidence about Palestrina and the lute suggests not that he composed on the lute, but that he intabulated his new compositions and tested them on the lute before releasing them. The best known reference is a letter from Annibale Capello to Guglielmo Gonzaga of 18 October 1578 concerning Palestrina intabulating some of the movements of his Missa Dominicalis. See Jessie Ann Owens, Composers at Work (1997), p. 309 JG On 25/02/2010, at 10:59, Sean Smith wrote: On Feb 24, 2010, at 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Also one has to ask whether Francesco da Milano, brilliant though he must have been, was actually able to invent extended strict canons without recourse to mensural notation. Some of his pieces are so intricately worked that the idea that he composed them "on the lute" seems ridiculous. Not so ridiculous once we know that Palestrina composed on the lute. Did he? It may be in print but I can't picture anyone composing 5 or more voices on a lute. Then again, maybe it's easier to compose on a lute what you don't have to perform. I'll remain sceptical and believe: he wrote some compositions (some parts of compositions?) w/ his lute but there's no way we can know the extent of his composing-with-lute practice. What is the quote which deals with this? Sean To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ Professor John Griffiths FAHA Early Music Studio, School of Music, The University of Melbourne 3010, Victoria, Australia tel +61 3 8344 8810 mob +61 421 644 911 [2]jag...@unimelb.edu.au [3]www.vihuelagriffiths.com ___ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e-mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e-mail. -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. mailto:jag...@unimelb.edu.au 3. http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/
[LUTE] Re: Setting pieces at different pitches -was: Dowland's "Lachrimae"
d&d&h I can see this approach easily enough. What I couldn't see was playing through large liturgical works and getting the whole picture. I'm sure he could play enough to let his mind fill in the rest. Sean On Feb 24, 2010, at 5:29 PM, David Tayler wrote: I think Howard is right on as far as the process goes. I don't think we can rule out the lute in any way based on this quote a far as being part of the compositional process. It may have been used for thematic material, for harmony, or any number of things, but it looks like a direct reference. The lute would not have had to play the full polyphonic web to be used as a compositional etch-a-sketch. dt At 05:09 PM 2/24/2010, you wrote: \On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:13 PM, John Griffiths wrote: > the evidence about Palestrina and the lute suggests not that he > composed on the lute, but that he intabulated his new compositions and > tested them on the lute before releasing them. I'm not sure what "tested" or "released" would mean in this context, but at least in English translation, the letter from Annibale Capello to Duke Guglielmo Gonzaga of Mantua of 18 October 1578 seems to say Palestrina was using the lute to compose: "Having passed recently through a serious illness and being thus unable to command either his wits or his eyesight in the furtherance of his great desire to serve Your Highness in whatever way he can, M. Giovanni da Palestrina has begun to set the Kyrie and Gloria of the first mass on the lute, and when he let me hear them, I found them in truth full of great sweetness and elegance. […] And as soon as his infirmity permits he will work out what he has done on the lute with all possible care. This seems to say that Palestrina had composed on the lute, and would expand it into the vocal parts as soon as he got well. The Duke apparently thought that Capello meant to say that Palestrina was writing lute music, as two drafts of a letter from a ducal official to Capello that Jeppeson found in Gonzaga show, or at least thats how Jessie Ann Owens reads them. The first one says: "His Highness [the Duke] commands that Your Lordship [Capello] tell Messer Giovanni di Palestrina that he should take care to get well and not hurry to set to the lute the Kyrie and the Gloria with other compositions, because having at hand many other talented men [i.e. in Mantua, I think] there is no need for compositions for lute, but instead for compositions made with great care." The second draft says Capello should tell Palestrina that he "not hurry to set the Masses to the lute, since [the Duke] desires that they employ imitation throughout and be written on the chant" This is all at pages 292-293 of "Composers at work" which I pulled up on Google books by searching "jessie ann owens" palestrina lute. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: Hello Howard & All: I have to say that contrapuntal lines CAN actually connect at a tempo slower than today's espresso-driven pace if the player can relax and resist the urge to push. This is an important point along w/ Howard's "But the problem isn't the listener's ability to hear the lines; it's the player's ability to play them as if they were distinct polyphonic lines instead of intervals and chords with stuff in between. " I've been working on some Borrono and Paladin intabulations lately and it's all wonderfully rhythmical but to give it that rhythmic power requires a lot of stamina in the left hand. The breakthrough for me came when I highlighted the vocal lines and played them as though a voice were singing them. It slows me down, allows the voices to speak and I can enjoy what is happening all the more. They may eventually regain some of their vocal speed but if they don't I won't worry. Jannequin probably laughed off any lutenists seriously trying to play his program chansons anyway. It didn't stop Paladin, Francesco, LeRoy and Borrono from trying. Francesco and his contemporaries must have understood that their purchasers had varying abilities and would play them back at varying tempoes [sp?]. Recall that the backbone of this composed music (fantasies/ricercars and chansons) is polyphony not rhythmical drive. Bring out that backbone and you have the essence of their music. Of course one shouldn't play those light, love "wink wink" chansons as somber motets but there are ways to lighten your touch and phrasing to give it the illusion of light-heartedness w/out (before) advancing the tempo. This, btw, is an dimension of chanson intabulation that the fantasies lack, namely, for you, the lutenist, to give it the ideas expressed in the poem. One more complexity of the music but one that gives you a direction in your strategy of interpretation. my 1 cent w/ a nickel from R & H. Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: should i learn thumb-under technique?
It's nothing like a percussionist converting to piccolo. I thought you just hold one in each hand and keep bashing away! Not that my lute technique is much better. Sean -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of terli...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:47 PM To: paul.nicholas.kief...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: should i learn thumb-under technique? That's not true ,modern guitarists use their thumb on the treble strings. It is a necessary skill for music by Rodrigo to Britten... not to mention transcription (God forbid!) Best, Mark Delpriora -Original Message- From: Paul Kieffer To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, Mar 18, 2010 12:15 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: should i learn thumb-under technique? Morgan, I think most important thing is, as mentioned above, plucking both strings of each course, and plucking the strings as strong as you can into the soundboard (this includes with the thumb as well). I think classical guitarist aren't used to using the thumb on the treble strings, but it is important in lute music. It can be done with both TO and TU technique, and I think the best thing would be to try for yourself and see what is best. The bottom line is, If you develop a good tone, nobody will care what technique you are using. The most important part is the tone. Have a tone that people will envy. I personally think if you are playing repertoire like Dowland and Laurencini, TO sounds a lot better in the long run, but it is difficult and frustrating to learn. Many people find TU to be easier and more comfortable for the hand (even guitarists). TU will make your playing a lot "faster" and you will be able to play rapid passagi and such...but in music like Dowland (and all music from that time and after 1600), this effect is not desirable (in fact I think they considered it hideous). Playing extremely fast has become popular the last few decades (sort of like speed metal). With TO your playing can become incredibly loud, full, and refined. And the thumb becomes an incredibly strong force (especially when playing on the treble strings). The two techniques also use different parts of the finger, it is not just where you put the thumb. With Thumb Under technique, you will be plucking with the underside of your fingers i-m-a (on the left side of the finger, when looking at the palm). With Thumb Over technique, you will be playing with the right end of the fingers i-m-a (when looking at the palm). The lutenists of the 17th century may have even played even farther off the finger (all the way on the side of the finger, way off the tip). But really, it depends on what is comfortable for you. That is the only thing that matters... You can try on your guitar, doing thumb-index alternation on all the strings, and see which hand position is more comfortable for you. What music do you want to play? Hope this helps. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:27 AM, <[1]terli...@aol.com> wrote: Hi, I have no trouble playing baroque guitar coming from single string guitar. For Baroque guitar I play with a relaxed tip joint and a get a broad enough contact point to play the courses just fine. BTW, Nigel Norths hand position here: [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXb3zih2umw Looks alot like Post-Segovia guitar technique commonly taught these days. Mark Delpriora -Original Message- From: vance wood <[3]vancew...@wowway.com> To: Lute List > <[4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thu, Mar 18, 2010 8:49 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: should i learn thumb-under technique? Just my opinion and not based on anything other than experience; those who made the switch in the Sixteenth-Century and beyond were already habituated toward a right hand approach that attacks both strings. This is not the case with a person coming at the Lute from the Guitar. The right hand on the Guitar is concerned with a single contact point, in other words the target is smaller. When switching to the Lute from this mind set it is somewhat difficult to re-educate the fingers to strike both strings, and the mind, to hear the difference and respond to it. I watch a lot of YouTube videos and play particular attention, in close ups, as to whether both strings in a course are engaged or whether only one string in a course is activated. There are many occasions where I see the latter. - Original Message - From: <[5]chriswi...@yahoo.com> To: "Lute List" <[6]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "howard posner" <[7]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>; "morgan cornwall" <[8]mcornw...@ns.sympatico.ca> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:55 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: should i learn thumb-under technique? Morgan, --- On Wed, 3/17/10
[LUTE] Re: String tension
My experience on the smaller diameter courses: As gut ages it goes sharp on the upper frets. As Nylgut ages it goes flat on the upper frets though I only notice this on the smaller diameter (chanterelle & 4th 8ve) strings. At different rates, of course. s On Apr 21, 2010, at 2:47 PM, David van Ooijen wrote: Nylgut doesn't stop strechting. Nylon does strech a bit (remember those guitar strings that always need to be tuned up?). Carbon does not strech. Gut hardly streches, it just breaks. ;-) My 2 eurocents of experience. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Carbon strings?
So, do theorboes work better for casting or trawling? Sean On Jun 9, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Laura Maschi wrote: Thank you all... so Inow I'll go to the fishing store and check what we have there. By the way...I think I will tie all my nylguts and go fishing! :-) Laura 2010/6/10 EUGENE BRAIG IV <[1]brai...@osu.edu> - Original Message - From: Paul Kieffer <[2]paul.nicholas.kief...@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, June 9, 2010 10:44 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? To: EUGENE BRAIG IV <[3]brai...@osu.edu> Cc: "[4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> I'm not sure why you guessed I'm using nylon. Every fishing line I've used has said "100 % Fluorocarbon, Professional Grade." Voila. If it said fluorocarbon, that's what it was. Cheers. Eugene -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 2. mailto:paul.nicholas.kief...@gmail.com 3. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:15 AM, Roland Hayes wrote: Not very flattering to us players, but what if these depictions are of someone not playing loud as possible but merely providing the muzak to the moment, the kind of unsurprising unremarkable music that makes a cocktail party a little nicer? I have played at such things myself, was relatively ignored but later thanked by many for creating a great mood. Everyone is talking and your notes sneak through the little pauses in conversation. I think it likely that this is an age-old function of music. r Indeed. See, for example, the 30+ Antico variations in various Phalese publications. Nice but endless noodling on almost-Greensleeves. And then there was the English two-chord dump noodling.The lute may have seriously come as close to becoming what the soprano sax has to new age music. I don't mean to disparage this rep or the lute. They can be impressive but they also hold up well under extremely peripheral audience attention. --Sean -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher Wilke Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:51 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Gary Digman Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting Gary, You don't know. Maybe acoustics were different back in Robin's time! (Haven't seen the movie, but I can imagine the Hollywood un- verisimilitudinal treatment.) I'm being facetious, of course, but I _do_ wonder: there are lots of depictions of single lutes in ensembles (and sole) at large gatherings. From the shear number of these pictures, the lutes must not have gotten completely lost. I imagine that the players of old perhaps managed to make themselves heard by thrashing the heck out of the strings in a manner that is quite contrary to our modern construction of the delicate, precious lute. Uh, oh... this is leading down a dangerous road of thought regarding the true properties required of this string material in order to survive more than a few minutes under such a beating... NO!... can't think these thoughts... lutes are precious, precious things... yes, precious... my precious... ;-) Chris Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Gary Digman wrote: From: Gary Digman Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 3:02 AM I just saw the new "Robin Hood" with Russell Crowe. Indeed there are scenes with a small lute. One small point however, in one scene of the people of Nottingham at a party/dance outdoors the band consists of one small lute, one recorder, one vielle and percussion. It's late in the party and the revellers have been drinking. The crowd is very noisy, but the lute can be heard above the din as if it were the lead guitar in a rock band. Only in the movies. Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
I kept my eyes closed through half of that movies so I wouldn't have to watch Gerard D wringing that poor gamba's neck in time to some other piece of music! Tous les moments of that movie couldn't end soon enough. Nice music tho s On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:44 PM, wikla wrote: One comment on lutes in movies: In a many ways quite well made a movie, "Tous les matins du monde", there anyhow is something that worries a theobo player: when the poor old Sainte-Colombe is playing alone his "viola da gamba" (viol in British, I guess...;) in his tiny cottage, you can clearly hear the theorbo playing the continuo, while there clearly none is present... Perhaps that was an image of Sainte-Colombe's hopes or imaginations? ;-) who really knows, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
I haven't seen the other two and, frankly, the music sequences from Tlmdm are why. I know, the irony is heavy. I really wanted to like it and would relish more movies and producers w/ the guts to produce them. That said, I probably will check out R. Hood's latest incarnation. I hope Darth Vader doesn't turn out to be his father. s On Jun 11, 2010, at 2:40 PM, G. Crona wrote: Sean, you have to agree, they don't make many "early music" movies with 'that' much focus on the music as Tlmdm anymore. I watched "Le Roi danse (2000)" recently (why are all those EM movies french btw?) from the same director as "Farinelli". And was surprized at how extremely unpleasant the depiction of both Lully and the King's characters were. Was that historically correct anyone, or just dramatic freedom? Lutes and Theorboes galore though and I believe HIP costumes, music, dance etc. Vive la France! G. - Original Message - From: "Sean Smith" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:13 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting I kept my eyes closed through half of that movies so I wouldn't have to watch Gerard D wringing that poor gamba's neck in time to some other piece of music! Tous les moments of that movie couldn't end soon enough. Nice music tho s On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:44 PM, wikla wrote: One comment on lutes in movies: In a many ways quite well made a movie, "Tous les matins du monde", there anyhow is something that worries a theobo player: when the poor old Sainte-Colombe is playing alone his "viola da gamba" (viol in British, I guess...;) in his tiny cottage, you can clearly hear the theorbo playing the continuo, while there clearly none is present... Perhaps that was an image of Sainte-Colombe's hopes or imaginations? ;-) who really knows, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2931 - Release Date: 06/11/10 08:35:00
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
I think the movie works at least well as a loose post-modernist adaption of Cyrano de Bergerac where we (as Roxane) wish Jordi Savall would reveal his true self instead of through the proxy of Gerard "Iron Grip" Depardieu. And that's my most generous spin on it. Maybe get Steve Martin to put an extra string on his banjo and do an American adaption. Oh wait... never mind. s On Jun 11, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Edward Martin wrote: Actually, Jordi Savall did play the background viol music, if my memory serves me correctly. ed At 07:32 PM 6/11/2010, Paul Kieffer wrote: Jordi Savall probably could have played Sainte-Colombe. Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Guerrero accompaniment
Dear collected wisdom, I've been asked to accompany Todo quanto pudo dar by Guerrero preferably on renaissance guitar (I don't have a vihuela) or, if needs be, on lute. I can tune the 4th course down on the guitar to get most of the tenor range giving me 3 voices to work with. Should I go for a strummy texture or double (some of) the voices? I'm new at the strumming idea but I don't want to make it sound labored to get all the notes. Would setting the middle voices be the best choice with a few strums where the rhythm seems to indicate it? thanks in advance, Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: books of BLANK tablature
Phalese printed many of his tablature books with 5 lines instead of 6 (the botttom line missing). Once you get the hang of it --and it's not hard, really-- any blank manuscript paper/notebook works. That's what I used for years till Fronimo arrived. Sean On Jun 22, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Brad Walton wrote: Sorry, folks, I meant books of blank tablature (not "bland" tablature!) Brad To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sringing a lute
Dear Wim, At the bottom of [1]this page you'll find a handful of string calculators. They aren't difficult to use. As you continue down the garden path that is the lute world you'll find yourself changing frets, measuring lengths and diameters, tying knots, playing with matches, knives and clippers and generally slipping into a DIY culture. It's just the way it is. You can pick up digital calipers in the US for ~$10(!) from [2]www.HarborFreight.com and every luter should have one near his string box. Both strings and their surrounding conversation are, in turns, fascinating, boring, colorful, off-putting, helpful, misleading (in the sense of useful for some; less for others), historic, almost historic, historic looking, maybe historic sounding, modern, "whatever", and lots of flavors in between depending on period, instrument, experiance, purpose, budget and whim (pun intended :^). Spend a couple of hours in the archives --you'll see. I'm sure plenty of opinions and contentions arose in the old days too so, in that sense, we are being fairly historic and maybe as, characteristically, nerdly. Eventually you'll realize it's not a bug but a feature. Have fun and good luck, Sean On Jul 3, 2010, at 8:52 AM, Wim Loos wrote: Dear all, My renaissance 8-course lute, string lenghts 615 mm,pitch a=415 Hz need new strings. It is tuned g'g' d'd' aa ff cc Gg Ff Dd I will try Nylgut, can anybody advise me wich plain/wounded strings I shoud buy. Present I use nylon strings. Thanks in Advance, Wim Loos __ Voeg eenvoudig je Hyves vrienden toe aan je [1]Hotmail en Messenger. -- References 1. [3]http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/productdetail .aspx?product=MessengerHyves&WT.mc_id=msn3 To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cittern.theaterofmusic.com/links/index.html 2. http://www.HarborFreight.com/ 3. http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/productdetail.aspx?product=MessengerHyves&WT.mc_id=msn3 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sringing a lute
Graham, The UK Lute Society sells The Care of Your Lute by David Van Edwards very reasonably priced. Sean On Jul 3, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Graham Freeman wrote: All, With the conversation below in mind, can anyone suggest a good book or other source that can assist with some of the DIY-elements of playing the lute? I'm probably getting my luthier to do things that I ought to be able to do myself. Where should we go to teach ourselves how to do this without destroying our instrument during the learning? Graham Freeman On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Sean Smith <[1]lutesm...@mac.com> wrote: Dear Wim, At the bottom of [1]this page you'll find a handful of string calculators. They aren't difficult to use. As you continue down the garden path that is the lute world you'll find yourself changing frets, measuring lengths and diameters, tying knots, playing with matches, knives and clippers and generally slipping into a DIY culture. It's just the way it is. You can pick up digital calipers in the US for ~$10(!) from [2][2]www.HarborFreight.com and every luter should have one near his string box. Both strings and their surrounding conversation are, in turns, fascinating, boring, colorful, off-putting, helpful, misleading (in the sense of useful for some; less for others), historic, almost historic, historic looking, maybe historic sounding, modern, "whatever", and lots of flavors in between depending on period, instrument, experiance, purpose, budget and whim (pun intended :^). Spend a couple of hours in the archives --you'll see. I'm sure plenty of opinions and contentions arose in the old days too so, in that sense, we are being fairly historic and maybe as, characteristically, nerdly. Eventually you'll realize it's not a bug but a feature. Have fun and good luck, Sean On Jul 3, 2010, at 8:52 AM, Wim Loos wrote: Dear all, My renaissance 8-course lute, string lenghts 615 mm,pitch a=415 Hz need new strings. It is tuned g'g' d'd' aa ff cc Gg Ff Dd I will try Nylgut, can anybody advise me wich plain/wounded strings I shoud buy. Present I use nylon strings. Thanks in Advance, Wim Loos __ Voeg eenvoudig je Hyves vrienden toe aan je [1]Hotmail en Messenger. -- References 1. [3][3]http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/product detail .aspx?product=MessengerHyves&WT.mc_id=msn3 To get on or off this list see list information at [4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cittern.theaterofmusic.com/links/index.html 2. [6]http://www.HarborFreight.com/ 3. [7]http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/productdetail .aspx?product=MessengerHyves&WT.mc_id=msn3 4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [9]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:lutesm...@mac.com 2. http://www.HarborFreight.com/ 3. http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/productdetail 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cittern.theaterofmusic.com/links/index.html 6. http://www.HarborFreight.com/ 7. http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/productdetail.aspx?product=MessengerHyves&WT.mc_id=msn3 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com
[LUTE] Re: NB!!! Forwarded mail found googeling
The Castelfranco, right? This is wonderful news. Thanks for keeping us posted, Goeren! Sean On Jul 6, 2010, at 12:41 PM, G. Crona wrote: Hallo, It seems that, at last, we will have a complete fac-simile of the ms., I hope it will come before the end of 2010. The editor will be Franco Rossi, and the book will be published by Forni Editore. For now, if someone is interested, there is an edition of the pieces by Francesco da Milano included in the ms. (tablature and guitar transcription): Alberto Mesirca, FRANCESCO DA MILANO - Opere per liuto dal manoscritto di Castelfranco Veneto - Trascrizioni per chitarra Saggio Introduttivo di Franco Pavan Introduzione di Hopkinson Smith Gruppo Editoriale: URPD Unit`a di Ricerca della Parrocchia del Duomo di Castelfranco Veneto. 150 Pgg. Tipografia Cremasco S.r.l. di Castello di Godego (Treviso) I will try to write down a complete list of the ms.: inside there is music by Francesco, Joan Maria da Crema, Borrono, Bakfark, Rotta, Luis Milan (!), Gorzanis, but I have not still a full idea about the content. I suggest to write to the author to buy a copy of the book: [1]amesi...@yaho... many many greetings Franco Pavan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: chinese lute - a new era?
Thanks for putting that up, Wayne. Interesting that they chose a Gerle(?) 6-c for the design. s On Jul 9, 2010, at 8:42 AM, wayne cripps wrote: Hi folks - The luthier Mel Wong has a lute on my "lutes for sale" web page http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html which is made in China, and is not too expensive. He says he did not have to do a lot to it to make it playable. Is this the beginning of an era of decent inexpensive lutes? (I have not seen the lute myself in person.) Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tonality issues with single course -- the evil octave string
I just checked how it works on my lute and, yes, I get a slight difference, too. I guess my ear has been absorbing it. There are a lot of factors going into it so it'll be pretty complex trying to find the root(s) of this. I'll assume you have your frets set to the proper meantone place and, regardless, they should both sound at the same pitch if fretted together. Could it be that your finger depresses the fundamental and octave differently? I use roped gut and the fundamental, being larger, means I have to press harder on it than necessary to also sufficiently press the octave (I hope this is clear). This bends the fundamental a shade more. How is the age on your nylguts? They _do_ go out of true over time tho from experience I can only speak to using under .6omm nylguts. Do you get any kind of visual ghost wave when you pluck either string? --this usually indicates an out-of-true string. Are you at all pushing the limits of either string to get the desired pitch --maybe one moreso than the other? Do you think your fundamental could have picked up any extra mass from your left fingers? Added grease and dirt at one end will screw with their trueness. Likewise, any gut fraying will lighten the vibrating mass at that end (while it's still part of the string it doesn't vibrate together w/ the string) tho this probably isn't applicable in your non-gut case. When using your tuning box, do you see some wavering of pitch? This is pretty common and might have a bearing on your situation. Another variable is the flexibility of the vibrating string just immediately next to the fret. One thickness may allow it to vibrate more freely coming off the fret. This, in turn, changes the vibrating length. Anyway, Peter, those are the first thoughts that come to mind. Any one of these variables may be minimal but if two or more play a role then it could cause a noticable effect. I don't think you want to change to change to dual unison strings just yet. Yes, it may solve this problem but may work against sounding right for the repertory. hope this helps, Sean On Jul 10, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Peter Ruskoff wrote: All right, lute gurus. This question has been plaguing me since I started playing the lute about 2 years ago. The reason I always hesitated asking on this list is because of the length required to explain whats going on. I apologize in advance for the length. I have an 8c Ren. lute made by LK Brown. Nice lute. But my 6th course (g course) will NOT fret in tune. Only my 6th course. The octave always sounds to flat against the fundamental when tuned with an electronic tuner or against the chantarelle. Always. Please note that we are talking about maybe 3 or 4 cents out of tune here (which is PLENTY out of tune when talking about octaves), but technically nothing huge. My frets are fine and have been changed 3 times in two years. There is nothing wrong with the neck, and since the out of tune severity is IDENTICAL anywhere on the neck, it tells me it has nothing to do with string diameters either. Though currently it is strung in Nylgut type D for fundamental and plain for the octave (my favorite sound), I have tried everything from unwound gut to savarez overwounds to carbonfiber in every possible combination. None of the strings are false. Everything gives a near identical result, even with the extreme diameter differences of unwound gut. Again let me reiterate: when tuning with an electronic tuner, my 6th course octave always sounds flat. "Well, just tune it sharper to solve the problem," you say. "Electronic tuners aren't perfect." This is very true. But here's the kicker: the string it ISN'T flat, both according to my electronic tuner and other G notes around the lute. In other words, when I fret a note, say Bb (3rd fret) on the 6th course, it will give the distinct unpleasant warble of being a few cents out of tune and the octave sounds flat. But when I check it against say, the Bb on the first fret of the third course, OR the electronic tuner, it is CLEARLY NOT FLAT. When I make the string sharper to get rid of the warble, the string is (surprise) too sharp. And I have to get pretty darn sharp before it sounds too sharp. What the heck is going on here? While I don't have perfect pitch, I am darn close (one of the reasons I stopped playing guitar is my disgust with being locked into equal temperament), and I refuse to believe my ear is the problem for one string on one course on one lute. How can it both be flat and not flat at the same time? Remember, I'm not talking about temperaments or anything, I'm talking about the one course simply not fretting in tune. The ONLY thing I can possibly think of--and this seems to be a bit of a stretch--is some kind of issue with the overtones on my instr
[LUTE] Re: Tonality issues with single course -- the evil octave string
I'm starting to agree w/ Ed more on the idea that a monofilament nylgut rings at more than one frequency, confounding the ear and tuner box. Ironically, I think the near perfect smoothness and controlled diameter do this. It is very near perfect when manufactured and unstretched but changes unevenly when tension is applied. When the string is first struck its natural period of length/diameter/tension is dominant. Over time (of length of the ringing note) other factors (uneven diameters) come into play creating the discrepant tone or warble. This is less prevalent in heavier strings over longer lengths (theorbo basses) but will be more noticable on higher tension thin strings (chanterelles); i.e. the greater the ratio of tension to diameter (greater tension : smaller diameter) the more the 'warble'. You are noticing it on the 6th course because you have a solid tone right beside it. Guts, otoh, either stretch more evenly or somehow cover for their discrepant tones. Nylon, being more stable, keeps its diameters over length more evenly. Unfortunately, nylon is a little too dense for general lute use. I recently went all gut for a short 1/4 meantone project and was happily amazed at the ease of tuning. (Hooray, 5th fret chanterelle in tune against its 3rd course 8ve every time!!) It's hard to financially justify this for any length of time since the little guts have their own shorter half life. So for practicing and noncritical playing I'm living w/ the wolves. They don't howl but they do whine. Sean On Jul 11, 2010, at 7:37 AM, Edward Martin wrote: Hello, Peter. You have received many excellent responses, and I think that all those who wrote are correct. Before you go to the effort to alter the mechanical set-up of your lute, I would start with strings. One of the reasons that I do not like nylgut is that to my ear, it often sounds out of tune. I suspect you may have false strings. Perhaps a gut octave would work better... or perhaps, a new 6th course might help. ed At 01:19 AM 7/11/2010, Peter Ruskoff wrote: All right, lute gurus. This question has been plaguing me since I started playing the lute about 2 years ago. The reason I always hesitated asking on this list is because of the length required to explain whats going on. I apologize in advance for the length. I have an 8c Ren. lute made by LK Brown. Nice lute. But my 6th course (g course) will NOT fret in tune. Only my 6th course. The octave always sounds to flat against the fundamental when tuned with an electronic tuner or against the chantarelle. Always. Please note that we are talking about maybe 3 or 4 cents out of tune here (which is PLENTY out of tune when talking about octaves), but technically nothing huge. My frets are fine and have been changed 3 times in two years. There is nothing wrong with the neck, and since the out of tune severity is IDENTICAL anywhere on the neck, it tells me it has nothing to do with string diameters either. Though currently it is strung in Nylgut type D for fundamental and plain for the octave (my favorite sound), I have tried everything from unwound gut to savarez overwounds to carbonfiber in every possible combination. None of the strings are false. Everything gives a near identical result, even with the extreme diameter differences of unwound gut. Again let me reiterate: when tuning with an electronic tuner, my 6th course octave always sounds flat. "Well, just tune it sharper to solve the problem," you say. "Electronic tuners aren't perfect." This is very true. But here's the kicker: the string it ISN'T flat, both according to my electronic tuner and other G notes around the lute. In other words, when I fret a note, say Bb (3rd fret) on the 6th course, it will give the distinct unpleasant warble of being a few cents out of tune and the octave sounds flat. But when I check it against say, the Bb on the first fret of the third course, OR the electronic tuner, it is CLEARLY NOT FLAT. When I make the string sharper to get rid of the warble, the string is (surprise) too sharp. And I have to get pretty darn sharp before it sounds too sharp. What the heck is going on here? While I don't have perfect pitch, I am darn close (one of the reasons I stopped playing guitar is my disgust with being locked into equal temperament), and I refuse to believe my ear is the problem for one string on one course on one lute. How can it both be flat and not flat at the same time? Remember, I'm not talking about temperaments or anything, I'm talking about the one course simply not fretting in tune. The ONLY thing I can possibly think of--and this seems to be a bit of a stretch--is some kind of issue with the overtones on my instrument. Maybe some kind of wolf? But why would it be the same problem on the f
[LUTE] Re: Tonality issues with single course -- the evil octave string
So true, Ed. It's especially noticable on that C major chord: --- --- -d- -c- -e- -f- And then when the nylgut octave goes false _down_ and the fundamental goes false _up_ it's really time to change strings ...or stop playing anything that uses that combination. Unfortunately there's the analagous F chord one string over that's used even more. Sean On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Edward Martin wrote: Thanks Sean and David. Although I am predominantly a gut player, I occasionally get this problem at the 6th course, 3rd fret. I use a Pistoy gut fundamental, and a treble gut (plain) octave. When new, they are the most true strings I have tried. The most usual problem starts when the 3rd octave goes false... usually, after a year or less. So, if the 6th course goes false, in most instances a new octave solves the problem. Because the Pistoy is so true for a gut string, (because it is a highly flexible string), it makes a beautiful sound and excellent intonation. Never perfect, but it is closer than anything else I have ever tried. ed At 10:36 AM 7/11/2010, Sean Smith wrote: I'm starting to agree w/ Ed more on the idea that a monofilament nylgut rings at more than one frequency, confounding the ear and tuner box. Ironically, I think the near perfect smoothness and controlled diameter do this. It is very near perfect when manufactured and unstretched but changes unevenly when tension is applied. When the string is first struck its natural period of length/diameter/tension is dominant. Over time (of length of the ringing note) other factors (uneven diameters) come into play creating the discrepant tone or warble. This is less prevalent in heavier strings over longer lengths (theorbo basses) but will be more noticable on higher tension thin strings (chanterelles); i.e. the greater the ratio of tension to diameter (greater tension : smaller diameter) the more the 'warble'. You are noticing it on the 6th course because you have a solid tone right beside it. Guts, otoh, either stretch more evenly or somehow cover for their discrepant tones. Nylon, being more stable, keeps its diameters over length more evenly. Unfortunately, nylon is a little too dense for general lute use. I recently went all gut for a short 1/4 meantone project and was happily amazed at the ease of tuning. (Hooray, 5th fret chanterelle in tune against its 3rd course 8ve every time!!) It's hard to financially justify this for any length of time since the little guts have their own shorter half life. So for practicing and noncritical playing I'm living w/ the wolves. They don't howl but they do whine. Sean On Jul 11, 2010, at 7:37 AM, Edward Martin wrote: Hello, Peter. You have received many excellent responses, and I think that all those who wrote are correct. Before you go to the effort to alter the mechanical set-up of your lute, I would start with strings. One of the reasons that I do not like nylgut is that to my ear, it often sounds out of tune. I suspect you may have false strings. Perhaps a gut octave would work better... or perhaps, a new 6th course might help. ed At 01:19 AM 7/11/2010, Peter Ruskoff wrote: All right, lute gurus. This question has been plaguing me since I started playing the lute about 2 years ago. The reason I always hesitated asking on this list is because of the length required to explain whats going on. I apologize in advance for the length. I have an 8c Ren. lute made by LK Brown. Nice lute. But my 6th course (g course) will NOT fret in tune. Only my 6th course. The octave always sounds to flat against the fundamental when tuned with an electronic tuner or against the chantarelle. Always. Please note that we are talking about maybe 3 or 4 cents out of tune here (which is PLENTY out of tune when talking about octaves), but technically nothing huge. My frets are fine and have been changed 3 times in two years. There is nothing wrong with the neck, and since the out of tune severity is IDENTICAL anywhere on the neck, it tells me it has nothing to do with string diameters either. Though currently it is strung in Nylgut type D for fundamental and plain for the octave (my favorite sound), I have tried everything from unwound gut to savarez overwounds to carbonfiber in every possible combination. None of the strings are false. Everything gives a near identical result, even with the extreme diameter differences of unwound gut. Again let me reiterate: when tuning with an electronic tuner, my 6th course octave always sounds flat. "Well, just tune it sharper to solve the problem," you say. "Electronic tuners aren't perfect." This is very true. But here's the kicker: the string it ISN'T flat, both according to my electronic tuner and other G notes around the lute. In other words, when I fret a note, say Bb (3rd fret) on the 6th course, it will
[LUTE] Re: Tonality issues with single course -- the evil octave string
Thanks, Martin! I don't use them very often and that's probably a good thing or I'd probably pull the bridge off. Does nylon stretch less than nylgut? ie, Does less length go onto the peg before it reaches pitch? Sean On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Just a small correction, Sean - nylon is less dense than gut (about 10% - but I'm sure someone will provide the exact figure). PVF is about 10% more dense than gut. Nylgut is almost the same density as gut, but just a little less dense, and also stretches more, so you often have to start off with larger diameters in order to end up at the desired tension. Best to All, Martin Sean Smith wrote: Guts, otoh, either stretch more evenly or somehow cover for their discrepant tones. Nylon, being more stable, keeps its diameters over length more evenly. Unfortunately, nylon is a little too dense for general lute use. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsperger
... ... ... ... ... timing! ;^) Sean On Jul 19, 2010, at 1:37 PM, wikla wrote: Dear Bruno, I do. What is the question? Well, I guess I know: I perhaps would play it |\ |\\ |\ | . || || 32 0 3 1 0 2 0 - 0 I think the dot after the first flag is (nearly?) visible... I hope I could make me clear! best, Arto On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 01:04:20 -0300, Bruno Correia wrote: Does anybody have the SPES edittion from Kapsperger's 1611 book? I have a serious question on corrente VII bar 28. Regards. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Max safe temp for a lute.
... and then back off a few degrees. On Jul 24, 2010, at 6:16 PM, howard posner wrote: On Jul 24, 2010, at 5:47 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: What is the maximum safe temperature for a lute? I can't wait to see the experiment protocol for this one. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Anton's setting of Il est bel et bon
I remember reading through the Pifaro Belly bon-bon and not being impressed by its resemblance to the popular chanson. I'll check it again when I get home. The MC La from Ms 266 is the real Stewart McCoy, though, and an excellant setting. my two cents, Sean On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:52 AM, G. Crona wrote: Brown lists 1546/13 MARCANTONIO DEL PIFARO 27 E3V Chiarenzana il est bel & bon. Then there's Ms. Mus 266 45v/46r 63 Il est bel et bon MD La. Couldn't find da Crema :) G. - Original Message - From: "Anton Höger" To: "lutelist Net" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Anton's setting of Il est bel et bon hi, I doubt, if Crema or Marco wrote an intavolation of "Il est bel en bon". The only known printed intavolation is by Berberis and a Canzon sopra Il belle bon by Cavazzoni (which I published too) Anton (If anybody knows another version, please let me know) Am 08.08.2010 um 21:28 schrieb G. Crona: Not bad Stuart! I believe there are solo versions by both Marco and da Crema G. - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" > To: "Anton Höger" Cc: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Anton's setting of Il est bel et bon Here's an amateur attempt at Anton Höger's lute duo setting of the Passereau chanson. My playing is not subtle and it gets a bit messy towards the end (but it's the best take I could do!). As it stands the setting is too difficult for me and Anton kindly suggested some simplifications. It's nice piece and well set. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/beletbon.mp3 Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Anton's setting of Il est bel et bon
Ok, I relooked at it and the bare essentials of the song are there but very simplified and it lacks any of the fun interplay of voices. There is another intabulation in the Siena that's often overlooked: Siena ms. f44r-44v titled "Fantasia". A bit more challenging and rewarding. Sean On Aug 9, 2010, at 10:04 AM, Sean Smith wrote: I remember reading through the Pifaro Belly bon-bon and not being impressed by its resemblance to the popular chanson. I'll check it again when I get home. The MC La from Ms 266 is the real Stewart McCoy, though, and an excellant setting. my two cents, Sean On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:52 AM, G. Crona wrote: Brown lists 1546/13 MARCANTONIO DEL PIFARO 27 E3V Chiarenzana il est bel & bon. Then there's Ms. Mus 266 45v/46r 63 Il est bel et bon MD La. Couldn't find da Crema :) G. - Original Message - From: "Anton Höger" To: "lutelist Net" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Anton's setting of Il est bel et bon hi, I doubt, if Crema or Marco wrote an intavolation of "Il est bel en bon". The only known printed intavolation is by Berberis and a Canzon sopra Il belle bon by Cavazzoni (which I published too) Anton (If anybody knows another version, please let me know) Am 08.08.2010 um 21:28 schrieb G. Crona: Not bad Stuart! I believe there are solo versions by both Marco and da Crema G. - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" > To: "Anton Höger" Cc: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Anton's setting of Il est bel et bon Here's an amateur attempt at Anton Höger's lute duo setting of the Passereau chanson. My playing is not subtle and it gets a bit messy towards the end (but it's the best take I could do!). As it stands the setting is too difficult for me and Anton kindly suggested some simplifications. It's nice piece and well set. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/beletbon.mp3 Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Facsimiles
Dear all, Though this arises coincidentally from the Passereau question, it's actually been brewing in my head for some time. For a lute student of between 1-3 years what would you suggest are the 5 most important facsimiles to own? I was going to say "have access to" but I feel that any serious player should be starting their own libraries by this time. I'll ask this from the point of view of a renaissance lutenist as well as the baroque players who will have their own lists. I'm not so interested in where they come from --I realize their availability comes and goes-- but from the student/player/historian aspect of learning the lute, its repertory and its place in history. Yes, I know, 5 books is mighty limiting but feel free to add a second 5 books if you need. As I see it every player has to start somewhere. Eventually I plan to tally the results and put a paragraph or 3 in an upcoming LSA Quarterly. And here. Thanks in advance; I look forward to your replies! Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: background music
David, I take it you're looking for a couple of no-page-turns, lots-o'- variety readable books. Pickering can work if you're sure you've got enough light. Phalese '68 has quite a few dances and oodles of anticho noodles + quite a few chansons that might work in your case too. I know this isn't early baroque but they are a couple that often go into my "play for hours" bag. s On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:16 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: All Coming Saturday I am to play for two hours during a dinner. The request was for early-Baroque dance music, but I think that can be interpreted as anything between 1500 and 1700 of a lively nature. I'll bring a pile of music, so no fear of silence - and I can improvise music of a lively nature for hours on end - but could people with some experience in this sort of thing tell me what they usually play? Ideally I'd just put one or two books on my music stand and play through these. I'll now walk to my music shelves and see with what sort of one-stop solution I can come up with, but I'm sure some of you will be even faster. ;-) David - lively by nature -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: BMI: weighed and found wanting?
Dear Dr Nightingale, I like your attitude, sir, and will resist billing you for any editing and reconstruction of your extensive catalogue. sincerely yours, Sean Smith On Aug 16, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Peter Nightingale wrote: Thanks to all of you --Chris, Dana, Ron, Ed, David-- who responded to my BMI question. This is what I have learned: 1. I composed all this music -- I have already contacted the Recovered Memory Project. 2. BMI bears the burden of proof to the contrary; meanwhile, we'll protest in no uncertain terms. 3. To stop the harassment, we'll lawyer up and send BMI a cease and desist letter. 4. Even before I wrote all this beautiful music about 300+ years ago, I placed it in the public domain. 5. Perhaps superfluously, I herewith grant permission to all of you to do with my music as you see fit. 6. If any of you be harassed by BMI, please feel free to refer them to me. Thanks again, Peter. the next auto-quote is: So the end result of the long campaign against government is that we've taken a disastrously wrong turn. America is now on the unlit, unpaved road to nowhere. (Paul Krugman) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: mac
It's a lot of stuff I know but I went the standard route and: --first bought the Virtual Machine to load Windows: Parallels (there are others) --loaded a copy of XP from the olden days when we had Windows machines. --bought the Fronimoes. This was all years ago. There may be programs to emulate or open windows that have come out since but I don't know of them. It's a shame to have to go this complicated for a program that runs on W. 95 --I still usually use Fronimo 2.1-- but there you are. There are ocassional hiccups (printers, keyboard layouts) but it works ok. As a matter of fact I was just playing the r. guitar off the screen when I read your note. ;^) Sean On Sep 18, 2010, at 1:11 PM, Sal Salvaggio wrote: Anyone out there who might be a fronimo user know of a mac program that reads fronimo files - just got a mac = any suggestions -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] 2 quick Dowland questions
In Can she excuse from the First Booke, what is the voicing for that final D maj chord? The type is broken and missing in my Scolar press facsimile. It's not often facsimiles let me down! Also, and this is more curiosity, what is the source for the 4-part Flow my teares? I only see two parts (cantus, bassus) in my 2nd booke. I will be doing a performance/rehearsal all-in-one (haha) in a few hours. Since this is a largish group I'm not that terrified but I suspect(hope!) that the Lacrima will be in 4 parts. If it's just me and a singer I'd appreciate any extra prayers you might have lying around. Tia! Sea To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 2 quick Dowland questions
Ha! Whatever they/he/she sings, I won't be playing the LoST lute part! Thanks, Ed! s On Oct 2, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Edward Martin wrote: Hello, Smitty. In answer to your questions, #1. Final chord in can she excuse is simple - just 2 notes, a & d (open 2nd & 3rd sources). #2. For Flow my Tears, very true - there are only cantus & bassus parts on the song version, but perhaps go to the Lachrimae book for 4 parts in that piece. ed \At 04:30 PM 10/2/2010, Sean Smith wrote: In Can she excuse from the First Booke, what is the voicing for that final D maj chord? The type is broken and missing in my Scolar press facsimile. It's not often facsimiles let me down! Also, and this is more curiosity, what is the source for the 4-part Flow my teares? I only see two parts (cantus, bassus) in my 2nd booke. I will be doing a performance/rehearsal all-in-one (haha) in a few hours. Since this is a largish group I'm not that terrified but I suspect(hope!) that the Lacrima will be in 4 parts. If it's just me and a singer I'd appreciate any extra prayers you might have lying around. Tia! Sea To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon?
Dear Anthony, Thank you kindly for the news of these strings. When I need that perfect gut sound I'll, as you can well imagine, use a gut string. If I'm simply practicing, playing for or accompanying those who won't notice or care or replacing a treble (or 4th course 8ve) on one of the "second shelf" lutes I will probably appreciate this information. Please continue to keep us posted. Best wishes, Sean On Oct 6, 2010, at 2:53 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: Dear Martyn "This seems a very retrograde step. Surely if we are wishing to hear something even approaching how the Old Ones sounded we ought to eschew treble strings which are so very different from what they had. " Martyn I think I would agree with you, I was informing but not advocating. While there are strong arguments for gut having been made more dense by loading of basses so as to obtain a less "tubby" sound), there is none (as far as I know) in favour of some treatment that lowers its intrinsic density for trebles (for a less bright sound), although there is speculation that historic top strings may have been thicker than they are today (I believe) and so perhaps less bright sounding. Nevertheless, the same "retrograde step" must surely be true for adopting higher density than gut trebles in carbon, which some, here, seem to be considering (with a potentially more unpleasant metallic sound than that of Titanium Nylon). And to be fair to these experimenters, the use of wirewound basses, could be surely be considered even less historic than the use of a synthetic top, from the point of view of the sound of the old ones. In fact, these French players may have just been looking for a replacement for the old Nylgut, because of its stretchiness (which is different from gut). I think Titanium nylon might be less slippery than nylon. If so, they may now adopt the new nylgut, as they did say they liked the sound of the old Nylgut, and they were not just looking for a cheap solution. "Of course it's quite possible these particular players to which you refer don't wish to try and achieve this sort of sound and quite like the modern guitar type tone.." Martyn That is possible, although they would not say so. They would perhaps claim that synthetic strings have qualities that were just not available at the time, but would have been adopted if they had been (you know the arguments that we have also heard, here, at times). Indeed, one of them did argue that the fact Baroque lutenists were playing back towards the bridge indicates they were striving for the bright sound that modern carbon affords. That, as you know, is not my position. What was of interest to me was rather the effect of thick versus thin top strings, as shown in their experiment, and this remains relevant, I think, to gut users (if we leave aside the question of density). Thicker treble strings, giving a less bright sound, can be used, as you know, by lowering the diapason while maintaining the same tension, or maintaining the same diapason while raising the tension. I think David Tayler is perhaps implying this here: "As a starting point for French baroque lute, on a "French Frey", 399 or 400 is a very good choice. I often find 415 a bit too high, and 392 a bit tubby due to the relatively small scale." [1]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg25126.html Tubbiness, presumably due to the thicker strings. I have found the trebles on my 70 cm Baroque lute a little bright (ie too thin), and I don't think I have quite tweaked this aspect of my stringing; while I am entirely happy with my Basses and Meanes. I may try raising the tension a little (ie a 46 instead of a 44 on the top string), but ideally, I would have liked to lower the diapason from 407 to 392, which would give the same 46 thickness (with no change of tension). However, the bother of replacing all the basses and Meanes that are so well run-in, rather makes me hesitate. It is also true that different makes of gut treble string can vary in brightness for the same diameter (and, presumably, density) and I may play around with this. Best wishes from Anthony (who is not about to go all "synthetic") __ De : Martyn Hodgson A : Edward Martin ; Anthony Hind Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Mer 6 octobre 2010, 9h 01min 43s Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings + Titanium Nylon? Dear Anthony, This seems a very retrograde step. Surely if we are wishing to hear something even approaching how the Old Ones sounded we ought to eschew treble strings which are so very different from what they had. Clearly gut was generally used for trebles and there's no reason to suppose their density has changed significantly since then - in short a
[LUTE] Re: How to make a lute in five minutes
That was some nice playing, Martin! Oh, and a sweet looking lute! I'm so glad you didn't spend the 3rd section researching the Luteweb archives for the best plastic strings. cheers, Sean On Oct 10, 2010, at 3:03 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote: (with a little help from Francis Cutting): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMBMGRcRbG0 ...and considerable hindrance from Windows Movie Maker. Lots of questions about how to do "proper video" coming up Best wishes, Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute volume
Interesting point, Anthony. At one of the lute seminars in Cleveland an interesting duo played that put some of these ideas to the test. As you suggest, JH plays with a reserved and relaxed manner on all gut but projects quite well. In this concert he was paired with Ronn MacFarlane playing Pickeringe duets in a large hall. Ronn plays a slightly larger instrument in mostly synthetics at a little higher tension. His style leans toward more verve. If we were to apply a little yin/yang interpretation both approach the lute w/ a lot of yin but I'd say RM pushes his instrument to the yang side a bit more. That night I missed getting to my usual front few rows and was in the center of the hall but it turn out very well: both came through nicely though they both occupied a slightly different soundspaces. Ronn's attacks were brightly though the loud/weak accents were less apparant. Jacob's sustains in the middle and upper ranges added quite a bit of color and that's where I more strongly heard the lute's unique strong/ weak character. In the basses, Jacob's attacks were to the fore while Ronn's synthetics carried the sustains in the lower octaves and JH's octaves carried, again, the 'colors' and harmonics. Did I prefer one over the other? Not at all! It better brought out the English idea of different instruments in an ensemble having their own color and soundspace, a texture strategy very evident in the Broken Consort. And they rocked. Imagine --and I hope those two will forgive me-- John Cleese and Robin Williams paired together to play Quixote and Sancho. I realize this is just another colorful opinion and others' observations and tastes may vary but I thought I'd drop a couple pennies in the cup. best to all. Carry on... Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: In My Life
Hi Bernd, I found more "ren guitar" versions at http://beatlesite.info/ tho not this one. Sean Sent from my iPotato On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:03 AM, Bernd Haegemann wrote: Hi! I am interested in the lute version, too. Here http://www.lute-academy.be/docstore/inmylife.pdf you find a ukulule version. Don't remember whre I found it. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Resources
The missing dot + extra short value note is quite common in intabulations in this time, such as Neusidler and Spinacino. It happens throughout Spinacino (eg, Sidedero, Bk II, 29v) and he frequently used dotted values as well. It also occurs between mensural notation sources. Tsat een meskin in the Odh A is dotted whereas the Segovia ms. generally keeps the simpler values. Perhaps, if we assume the Segovia was a possible lute source (albeit in mensural notation) this may have been a lute idom. Yes, it sounds more correct to keep the dots and going to the composers' earliest source may support this but the evidence does show that lutenists were often instructed to play otherwise. Unless they also collected the mensural sources (and they weren't for sale like the books were) how would they have been expected to know when to change from simple values to a dotted phrase? Sean On Oct 22, 2010, at 7:50 AM, R. Mattes wrote: On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:30:18 +0100, Peter Martin wrote Thanks for this lead! I've just downloaded Laute und Lautenmusik. on page 17, taking an example from Neusidler, he suggests that an quarter note C followed by eighth notes C and D should be interpreted as a dotted quarter note C followed by an eighth note D. This is on the grounds that Neusidler hardly ever writes dotted notes. It's sort of plausible, but is it right? I would never play out those repeated notes. Neusidler's and the other early german lute sources rhythmic notation is much closer to the rhythmic notation of lower voices in early german organ tablature. "Dotting" (i.e. punctus additionis) is a concept from mensural notation, hardly applicable to tablature. Playing those repeated notes in intabulations of such polyphonic gems as 'Cecus non judicat ..' from Alexander sound ridiculous to me. Bur some well-known experts seem to dissagree :-) Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: LSA video clips (tech info)
Have you tried VLC player? A lot quicker than QT and SC, plays anything (audio/video) and easy-peasy. It's free. http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ Sean On Oct 24, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Leonard Williams wrote: Can anyone explain how I can get to hear the audio of the clips at the LSA website? I'm running a Mac, OS 10.5; I have a converter that plays wmv files in QuickTime. But I get no audio. Is anyone familiar with StreamClip? Would that fix it? Thanks and regards, Leonard Williams To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fronimo Lyrics
I *think*it's the same as Fronimo2 but I'm not at home to check. Under each note, when you enter text into the dialog box hit the return key at the end of words of the first verse. That should send you to a second line where you can enter the 2nd verse text under that note. Also, by adding spaces around the text you can move it slighly to the right or left to make the text fit better within the measure. Hope this helps. Sean On Oct 25, 2010, at 7:51 AM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Using Fronimo 3.0, is it possible to add more than one verse to a mensural staff (second line of text underneath the first)? If so, how does one accomplish this? Thanks, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Capirola
Full color ricercars, some of the finest motet settings on the planet, 14th century chansons, giraffes, hippogriffs, peacocks, cheetahs, monkeys, monkey riding cheetah!, bunnies, lions, unicorns AND the family dog? What's not to like? Most enchanted evenings with lute do not involve firing up the computer; this book trebly so. It's definitely worth an ink cartridge or three, Denys. thanks for the good news, Leonard! Sean On Nov 17, 2010, at 1:36 PM, Denys Stephens wrote: Dear Leonard, That's very good news! Thanks for forwarding this. They must surely have made colour photos of the manuscript - so we may at last be able to see it all in its full glory and find out how much of a part colour plays in the notation. The downside is that we probably will never now see a colour facsimile, and It would have been really nice to have seen it done to the same standard as the Verlag Pesaro copy. I wonder how many of us devote the time and ink cartridges to printing out PDF copies of lute books and creating full hard copies? In my case it's none! That's one of the reasons why the Lute Society has elected to print colour facsimilies of the English manuscripts like Dd.2.11 - viewing an on screen image is never quite the same as holding a reproduction of the original in your hands. Fortunately we can keep the cost down by not charging for any of the work apart from the things we can't do ourselves - mainly printing and postage. There would surely be scope for the lute societies around the world to work with libraries and museums to get more lute books in print. But perhaps those of us that like books are out of sync with the rest of the world, and in future everyone will want to play from their ipads? Best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Leonard Williams Sent: 16 November 2010 21:30 To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Capirola I recently wrote to the Newberry Library in Chicago, inquiring about the possibility of their producing a full color Capirola facsimile at any time. Here's the answer (though there is some uncertainty about the color aspect): Dear Mr. Williams, As it happens, the entire Capirola manuscript is going to be reproduced on the "Ricercar" site maintained by the Centre d'Etudes Superieures de la Renaissance, in Tours, France. Here's the URL for the section of their site that is dedicated to lute manuscripts and publications: http://ricercar.cesr.univ-tours.fr/3-programmes/EMN/luth/ The Capirola, as you will see, is not there yet. The photography has been done, however. I'm not sure what their time-table is, for mounting the Capirola. If you're curious to know, you could write to them directly. As you point out, it would be very expensive to produce a full color facsimile. To do that we would need a major subvention. Sincerely yours, Carla Zecher Director Center for Renaissance Studies The Newberry Library Regards, Leonard Williams /[ ] / \ | * | \_=_/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OT: a computer question
What HP just said. The ram to upgrade to 1.25 gig is very cheap, too. It's still a workhorse and I use it for Fronimo among other stuff -- putting this mildly on topic even. Sean On Nov 18, 2010, at 6:55 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I'm really not fond of the whole L. mindset RT - Original Message - From: "Charles Browne" > To: "Roman Turovsky" Cc: "Lex van Sante" ; "lute mailing list list" > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: a computer question what about Linux? see http://www.ghacks.net/2009/06/10/revive-your-old-mac-g3-g4-or-g5-with-linux/ Charles Browne char...@brownecowie.fsnet.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OT: a computer question
Parallels 2, windows xp. (1 ghz processor). I loaded it all up about 8 years ago and am hesitant about upgrading anything more than Fr 3 every now and then. Cheers Sean On Nov 18, 2010, at 10:36 AM, Lex van Sante wrote: @ Sean, Running Fronimo on a Mac? How? (Wine perhaps?) Cheers! Lex Op 18 nov 2010, om 18:15 heeft Sean Smith het volgende geschreven: What HP just said. The ram to upgrade to 1.25 gig is very cheap, too. It's still a workhorse and I use it for Fronimo among other stuff --putting this mildly on topic even. Sean On Nov 18, 2010, at 6:55 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I'm really not fond of the whole L. mindset RT - Original Message - From: "Charles Browne" > To: "Roman Turovsky" Cc: "Lex van Sante" ; "lute mailing list list" Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: a computer question what about Linux? see http://www.ghacks.net/2009/06/10/revive-your-old-mac-g3-g4-or-g5-with-linux/ Charles Browne char...@brownecowie.fsnet.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OT: a computer question
Thanks for keeping me honest, Lex: Windows XP running under a Virtual PC distortion field 7.0.1, OSX 3.9. I'll choose imagination --which is hardly distinguishable these days from bad memory. If I had the money for a MBP I'd probably just spend it on lutebooks, strings or instruments. Sean On Nov 18, 2010, at 12:23 PM, Lex van Sante wrote: @ Sean Parallels doesn't run on a G4 since it is Intel-only. So either you have a MacBookPro or a lot of imagination. Your choice! :-) Parallels only exists since 2005. (Believe me, I should know) so it is also possible that Steve Jobs has lured you inside his R.D.F. (Reality Distortion Field). Cheers, Lex Op 18 nov 2010, om 20:15 heeft Sean Smith het volgende geschreven: Parallels 2, windows xp. (1 ghz processor). I loaded it all up about 8 years ago and am hesitant about upgrading anything more than Fr 3 every now and then. Cheers Sean On Nov 18, 2010, at 10:36 AM, Lex van Sante wrote: @ Sean, Running Fronimo on a Mac? How? (Wine perhaps?) Cheers! Lex Op 18 nov 2010, om 18:15 heeft Sean Smith het volgende geschreven: What HP just said. The ram to upgrade to 1.25 gig is very cheap, too. It's still a workhorse and I use it for Fronimo among other stuff --putting this mildly on topic even. Sean On Nov 18, 2010, at 6:55 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I'm really not fond of the whole L. mindset RT - Original Message - From: "Charles Browne" > To: "Roman Turovsky" Cc: "Lex van Sante" ; "lute mailing list list" Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: a computer question what about Linux? see http://www.ghacks.net/2009/06/10/revive-your-old-mac-g3-g4-or-g5-with-linux/ Charles Browne char...@brownecowie.fsnet.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute repair and question
I had the same problem for years. My problem was primarly how I held it. It was a 55 cm 8c with a somewhat shallow back that was simply too small. I had to hunch to hold it. I still pick it up now and then but within a couple of hours it "lets me know". Oddly enough, my next was a 55 cm 6c with a much rounder (semicircle) body. Much easier tho I still wasn't out if the woods. Next came the 60 cm: more improvement and the final step 5 years ago was the strap. The strap, I found, was extremely liberating. Immediately I could sit or stand without my spine hunching or twisting. Both feet feel perfectly natural on the floor which does wonders for breathing, focus and stamina. There is a caveat. I play thumb under and no 10c lutes. A lot of people have had to slay this dragon and many are the roads to Rome. Though it may take a months let us know how you get on. Good luck, Sean On Nov 19, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Mark Mattioli wrote: 1. My larson 10 course is in need of repair. Any suggestions in the north east? 2. I not played it in 4 years because holding it causes me back pain after 15 minutes. Any solution such as a strap or holder? I wrote daniel larson about this but no reply. Mark M -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret tying help
All this sounds right as rain. For a burning tool I use a non-sharp knife with the tip of the blade on the stove heating element (electric or gas work equally well). Your work table should be close by. On Nov 23, 2010, at 1:51 PM, David Tayler wrote: Take a piece of Fretgut--I use Pyramid fretgut--or the right thickness gut string. Create one loop or half hitch near the end Shimmy the knot down to the end of the string, and leave just enough space--a little hole, sort of-- for the other end (later) to go through NB: This is a slip knot, which is what you want. You want it to slip. Burn the stub end with a soldering iron or match to make a mushroom end. Be carefull. Placing the half-knot on the back of the fingerboard, two thirds of the way "up" (towards the bass side) and run the long end around--(under the strings, DOH!) and through the little space in the knot you left. The inserted string will slide easily through the hole you made, and you want to make that string do a 180 turn eventually. Pressing the knot with the thumb, pull hard upwards. Hold don the fret with the fingers of the same hand on the fingerboard side. The knot will slide and the fret will become tight. The harder you pull, the tighter it gets. Make sure the string is about one fret from where it will end up. Cut the long end, leaving 4mm stub, then burn or heat the end untill it is flush with the knot. Don't burn the knot. Move the fret up I use a lighter, but for finer control use a pencil type soldering iron, available on eBay for $5 There are many other knots you can use, but this one gets the first fret super tight. Also, you don't need to cut the fret till you are done. The harder you pull, the less the knot slides--it is adjustable. dt At 09:01 AM 11/23/2010, you wrote: My lute has needed some new frets for a longish time, and I've been putting it off. Got the fret gut maybe 6 months ago. Well, I decided I must do it. I looked at all the different knots people suggest, and decided what to try. But the first attempt went badly enough to justify my fear and putting it off. Here are my questions from that attempt. How do you get any sort of knot to tighten up with such a stiff, unpliable material? Should the place where the knot is going to be be worked to loosen it first? And how do you really get that nice melted lump on the ends? I read that a soldering iron is safer than matches or a lighter, and that is what we tried. But in all cases (iron or lighter) the gut seems more likely to burn or char than melt into a nice lump. Its clear that these knots really only hold well because the lump won't go through the knot, so the quality of the lump seems important. Any tips on getting a nice, melted lump instead of a rough, charred end? Thanks in advance. Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsperger's temperament
For the pieces using the Db major chord could you not set the frets to ET (or 1/6) and not finger the tastino? Other than pieces that are technically impossible I personally like 1/6. And if you can get away with it, 1/4 can sound very nice once in a while. Given his daring use of tone color and character I constantly wonder if he wanted some of that dissonance though a disparity between 8ves might be stretching it. Sean On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Bruno Correia wrote: A question for those who play Kapsperger lute pieces: what temperament fits best his music? I find 1/4 mesotonic quite good, but there are a few spots that are not that sweet. I just started using a tastino on the 1st fret and that creates some problems too. For example, when there is a barre on the first position (Db major chord), the d flat on the 3rd course (4rth fret) is really out of tune... Any advice is welcomed. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Examining frets.
Herbert, You should change a fret when it buzzes against the next fret 'downstring'. It might be possible to go a little longer by pressing harder on the string but this breeds bad habits. A new fret gives a minimal surface meaning the least dampening of the string. This translates to more overtones, a little longer ring time and overall note clarity, especially when using gut. Jacob Herringmann told me he usually refrets before concerts. Sean On Jan 9, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: Do you need to change a fret if it looks OK under a magnifying glass? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: YouTube - Marco Meloni
"There are also one German and one French-Canadian early music groups who have done a lot of arrangements of folk as early music." Add Shirley and Dolly Collins recording with Hogwood, Munrow, Skeapingx2 and Laird in the late '60s. sws On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: In fact, this is pretty rare. Aside from Paulo and myself I cam only think of one Swedish composer Petter Möller who has done something of the sort.
[LUTE] Re: new piece of the month
Very nice, Martin! Exceptional piece of music, too. The long stringlength works nicely with the arpeggios I saw a microfilm of this many years ago and it was very difficult to read (washed out, most of the rastering was missing). Later, I saw the excerpt on the cover of Anthony Rooley's record which appeared very legible. From what I remember the pieces, while much of the usual canon, were often unique and masterful settings. Might there be any interest in its publication by the Lute Society? This is probably the book that would push me over the edge to finally get that 7-c lute! Sean On Jan 30, 2011, at 8:18 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Dear All, With one day to go, here is January's piece of the month: www.luteshop.co.uk/month/pieceofthemonth.htm - played on a new all-gut strung 7c lute (67cm, after Venere C36). I hope you like it. Best wishes, Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Terzi
Ha! There's my kitty on the second page. Surely that can't be it? Sean On Feb 3, 2011, at 1:00 PM, adS wrote: In google books search for inauthor:"Giovanni Antonio Terzi" Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Holbein fret spacing (Re: Google Art project)
Just to be saucy, I'd call it HP. Sean On Feb 9, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote: Howard, --- On Wed, 2/9/11, howard posner wrote: I didn't try to extrapolate an overall mensur, or what an ET fretting would be, because the picture doesn't show the whole lute. But after the second fret the frets are all 15 or 16 units apart, which would give a scale nothing like anything in Western music. -- Until now. You have just discovered a new temperament. Using a ruler, I have just set my frets to Posner-comma-Holbein "Ambassador". I hate the way it sounds, but love being so HIP. Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strap slips off left shoulder.
Tie the strap off at the butt end of lute in the usual way. Where the strap ends over the left shoulder attach a long loop of string (I like a dark shoelace). Let one end run over the peg at the nut end of the pegbox and the other at the tip (or wherever you like considering all those pegs to choose from). Make a few loops around varius pegs on the far side to finetune the length and to keep it from traveling. I've done this for years. I can stand or sit and expect zero lute rotation. It also keeps my shoulders 'square' and non slumpy which may help your slippage problem. Sean On Mar 9, 2011, at 7:20 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: In playing my 13-course, the strap is constantly on the verge of slipping backwards off my left shoulder. To a lesser extent this happens with my Renaissance lute also. Any suggeestions besides safety-pinning the strap to my shirt? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strap slips off left shoulder.
Thanks, Roman, but this shouldn't be taken as an illustration of what I meant. I'm sorry that I don't have the means to throw it up on the web at the moment. Think stabilizing triangle from strap-end to pegbox. s On Mar 10, 2011, at 9:58 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I've made a little chart of how to tie the strap to prevent rolling/ slipping: http://torban.org/images/strap.jpg RT' - Original Message - From: "Sean Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Strap slips off left shoulder. Tie the strap off at the butt end of lute in the usual way. Where the strap ends over the left shoulder attach a long loop of string (I like a dark shoelace). Let one end run over the peg at the nut end of the pegbox and the other at the tip (or wherever you like considering all those pegs to choose from). Make a few loops around varius pegs on the far side to finetune the length and to keep it from traveling. I've done this for years. I can stand or sit and expect zero lute rotation. It also keeps my shoulders 'square' and non slumpy which may help your slippage problem. Sean On Mar 9, 2011, at 7:20 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: In playing my 13-course, the strap is constantly on the verge of slipping backwards off my left shoulder. To a lesser extent this happens with my Renaissance lute also. Any suggeestions besides safety-pinning the strap to my shirt? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Beef gut strings Gamut
I have received notice that Dan Larson has started a line of beef-gut strings at Gamut. No, I haven't tried them yet. Has anyone else? http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/new-beef-gut-strings.html Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Beef gut strings Gamut
Ooooh, I like the sound of that... s On Mar 17, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Edward Martin wrote: Yes. I love the trebles. They last much monger, and have a clear, lean, wonderful sound. A recent 2- day recording session with my vihuela quartet (more to come on that) was great. All 4 of us had beef gut trebles, and only one string change for the 4 of us!!! ed At 12:39 PM 3/17/2011, Sean Smith wrote: I have received notice that Dan Larson has started a line of beef-gut strings at Gamut. No, I haven't tried them yet. Has anyone else? http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/new-beef-gut-strings.html Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: Continuo and the Foscarini Experience
On a broader front - it troubles me that so many people - not just
musicians - seem unable to make a clear distinction between fact and
fiction. Both intellectually and morally I see this as a problem! --
Monica
As a victim of unfortunate news concerning a concert mate [Three
fingers??!! That's horrible and must be soo painful!] I must agree.
Especially today.
Sean
ps, he's ok but I had already rewritten the concert program in my
head ;^)
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:56 AM
To: Christopher Wilke
Cc: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Continuo and the Foscarini Experience
Interesting thoughts Chris - but I don't think people would say
'great
continuo playing' if one busked in the style of, say, Scott
Joplin in,
say, a Bach Mass setting. In fact, the evidence is not as scant
as you
suggest and in practice there are generally acceptable limits for
keyboard continuo practice (often based on what we know of
historical
practice). As far as I understand from the discussion, the
problem is
that the 'Foscarini Experience' performance is so far away from
what
any audience might have heard ('experienced') at the time as to
be a
parody, or rather a travesty, of what the composer may have had in
mind.
Of course all is not perfect even in the keyboard continuo world
and
some harpsichord players seem to find it hard to resist things like
heavy regular arpeggiation in, say, a Vivaldi slow movement - a
sort of
grafted on harpsichord concerto but it's still much better than
with
the lute/theorbo where electronic amplification of the individual
instrument can often be the norm thus allowing a sort of fancy lute
song style accompaniment which in practice would be inaudible
without
the amplification.
This sort of 'experience' by FE is surely an admission of artistic
defeat rather than a triumph of individualism - by pandering to
current
popular music fashions (much simple rhythmic movement and a lot of
thrashing about) it seems as though the ensemble is trying to
generate
sales by satisfying the lowest common denominator - nothing
intrinsically wrong with this of course, but hackles must rise when
it's promoted as being close to what was heard at the time
MH
--- On Fri, 1/4/11, Christopher Wilke wrote:
From: Christopher Wilke
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience again
To: "Stuart Walsh" , "Monica Hall"
Cc: "Lutelist"
Date: Friday, 1 April, 2011, 13:58
--- On Fri, 4/1/11, Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I don't think really these people really make any attempt
> to play the music in a "historically informed way"..or have
> any relevant knowledge at all.
>
> Everyone is just fooled by their virtuosity.
>
> Cynically
>
> Monica
>
I think we have to make a distinction between the scholarly side of
things and the artistic aspect. "Historically informed" is not a
very
helpful critical term. Deciding who is "historically informed-er"
tells us little about the artistic worth of the performance. I
don't
think it is necessarily invalid for a performer, in light of scant
historical evidence, to bring in aspects of performance done is
accord
with modern principles (i.e. improvisation) as a substitute for
essential subjects treated only ambiguously in the texts. After
all,
if you're one of the well-respected harpsichord players in any
number
of baroque ensembles, they call this sort of thing "great continuo
playing."
Chris
Christopher Wilke
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
>
> - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh"
<[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:06 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience again
>
>
> > On 31/03/2011 22:08, Stuart Walsh wrote:
> >> On 31/03/2011 19:53, Monica Hall wrote:
> >>> I came across this
> CD by the group Foscarini Experience with the title
> >>> "Bon voyage" some time
> ago.
> >>
> >>
> >> I looked around to see if I could hear some of the
> tracks as samples. Couldn't find anything but I did find an
> album by 'Private Musicke' (who played at Edinburgh last
> year with an opera singer) and there are some samples from
> this album, Echo de Paris:
> >>
> >> [4]http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Accent/ACC24173#listen
> >>
> >> It's interesting that the one solo of Corbetta's
> and the several of Bartolotti are played actually as solos -
> very fluently (but perhaps, at the gushing rather than the
> pinched, end of the spectrum) whereas Foscarini (and
> Briceno) get a complete makeover. Actually playing through
> Foscarini you struggle to find anything musically coherent
[LUTE] Re: Susanne ung jour
Here's a project from the LSA: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Susanne/index.html On Apr 10, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Hilbert Jörg wrote: Dear friends, I am currently working on a very nice flute variation on "Susanne ung jour" by Bassano, which is obviously based on a song of Orlando di Lasso. I am very interested in this song and in additional lute material, but I cant find too much about it in the internet. Does anybody know, if there is some free material out there, which I may not have found yet? Thanks, Jörg -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Susanne ung jour
I had to hurry --my neighbor was taking a bath outside and I didn't want to miss it. s On Apr 10, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: Well done, Sean ! You beat me on that one ;-)) Best, Jean-Marie = == En réponse au message du 10-04-2011, 19:44:10 == Here's a project from the LSA: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Susanne/index.html On Apr 10, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Hilbert Jörg wrote: Dear friends, I am currently working on a very nice flute variation on "Susanne ung jour" by Bassano, which is obviously based on a song of Orlando di Lasso. I am very interested in this song and in additional lute material, but I can’t find too much about it in the internet. Does anybody know, if there is some free material out there, which I may not have found yet? Thanks, Jörg -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] O felici occhi miei
Would anyone have a translation of Arcadelt's madrigal? Here are the words (from the Ortiz 1552 book). I apologize for probably not getting the lines/stanzas arranged correctly. O felici occhi miei felici voi Che sete car'al mio sol per che sembianz' havete de gl'occhi che gli fur si dolce rei voi ben voi sete voi voi voi felici et io, io no che per quetar vostro desio corr'a mirar l'onde mi strugo poi mi strugo poi. Mega-thanks in advance!! Sean ps Yes, it makes a nice lutesong. Solo in daCrema '46 (Minkoff) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: O felici occhi miei
Steven, G. Thank you immensely for the translations! Though I'll take your caveats at face value, Steven, it's good to know the possible vaguery of 'rei'. best wishes, Sean On Apr 30, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Sean Smith wrote: Would anyone have a translation of Arcadelt's madrigal? Here are the words (from the Ortiz 1552 book). I apologize for probably not getting the lines/stanzas arranged correctly. O felici occhi miei felici voi Che sete car'al mio sol per che sembianz' havete de gl'occhi che gli fur si dolce rei voi ben voi sete voi voi voi felici et io, io no che per quetar vostro desio corr'a mirar l'onde mi strugo poi mi strugo poi. Mega-thanks in advance!! Sean ps Yes, it makes a nice lutesong. Solo in daCrema '46 (Minkoff) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Speaking of citterns....
Andrew Hartig has set up an all-things-cittern site at: http://www.cittern.theaterofmusic.com/ have fun, Sean On May 27, 2011, at 2:14 PM, David Smith wrote: I understand that 16th century citterns had metal (wire?) frets built into the fingerboard rather than the tied-on frets used on lutes until much later. Is it known when metal frets started being used and what instruments they were used on? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Speaking of citterns....
I don't know of any gut strung instruments (in the 16th century) with metal frets --probably for just the reason you state. Metal frets usually seemed to go hand-in-hand with scalloped frets, too. I had assumed that it decreases any sharp bend north of the fret to prevent wayward intonation although in doing so it could possibly increase the stringlife. Guitars in the early 20th century used metal frets and gut together, I presume. I remember seeing an old wandervogel lute with scalloped frets. Are there more examples of this combination? Sean On May 27, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Edward Mast wrote: I had a Hauser-model lute with metal frets. Worked fine with heavy gauge strings. But when I decided to try some lighter gauge lute strings (like what I'm not using on my more historical instrument), the metal frets wore through the windings of the wound strings within a week. I suspect they would wear down gut strings, also. So, I assume metal frets would have been suitable for wire strung instruments only. But I'm only surmising; I have no historical evidence! On May 27, 2011, at 5:31 PM, Sean Smith wrote: Andrew Hartig has set up an all-things-cittern site at: http://www.cittern.theaterofmusic.com/ have fun, Sean On May 27, 2011, at 2:14 PM, David Smith wrote: I understand that 16th century citterns had metal (wire?) frets built into the fingerboard rather than the tied-on frets used on lutes until much later. Is it known when metal frets started being used and what instruments they were used on? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sopranlute
Short answer, Anton: There are plenty of duos for 4th apart. and there are plenty of duos for 5th apart. There has been little to no information about how to pitch the smaller instrument --or even the larger. Specify which and your playing audience will find the instruments. I find 4th apart to be very useful. In the 1990's there was an American builder who built quite a few Tieffenbrucker descant copies at a 43cm mensur. There don't seem to be any other models to build from. Unfortunately that length is just a little long for a D instrument and although it will reach with a nylon topstring it sounds shrill to my ears. With few people having an F lute this has been the defacto descant in D for the Pacaloni trios. The Vallet quartets demand two instruments an octave apart so the descant must be a D. When we found a shorter descant (40cm) the shrill factor decreased considerably and we use the "Tieffenbrucker" in C where it is considerably happier. F-tenor and C-descant make a very good 5th apart pair, too. Ed Martin has a collection of vihuelas including a descant. I'd be curious as to its length, tuning and topstring. Ed? Best wishes and thanks for all the music! Sean On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:07 AM, Anton Höger wrote: hi, is the tuning for the Sopran lute in "c" or "d"? I mean the open highest string of the sopran lute? Thanks Aton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sopranlute
Thanks, Ed! Glad to see you and the buddies are putting some mileage on them! I'd love to be locked in a room with them (the vihuelas) for a few days! cheers, Sean On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:50 AM, Edward Martin wrote: Sean and all, We use the vihuelas by 2 means... my new group, the Chambure Vihuela Quartet uses all 4 instruments together. See: http://www.chamburequartet.com/ This is for all 4 vihuelas. The 4 chambure vihuelas were built in 2004, for the Valderrabano duets. See: http://magnatune.com/artists/duo_chambure The instruments are: 64 cm in F 59 cm in G 50 cm in Bb 45 cm in c See: http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/a-set-of-matching-vihuelas/ This article will tell you everything you would want to know about voicing and pitches for the vihuelas. In the Valderrabano duets, for a minor third apart, we used the 59 (G) and 50 cm (Bb) vihuelas. For the fourth apart, we used, 50 (Bb) and 64 (F)cm. For a fifth apart, we used the 64 cm (F) and 45 cm (c) instruments. Top strings are .42 sized - all strung in gut, at a = 440. Phil Rukavina and I will be performing the Valderrabano duets in Gijon, Spain in July. See: http://www.sociedaddelavihuela.com/en/ ed At 09:10 AM 6/2/2011, Sean Smith wrote: Short answer, Anton: There are plenty of duos for 4th apart. and there are plenty of duos for 5th apart. There has been little to no information about how to pitch the smaller instrument --or even the larger. Specify which and your playing audience will find the instruments. I find 4th apart to be very useful. In the 1990's there was an American builder who built quite a few Tieffenbrucker descant copies at a 43cm mensur. There don't seem to be any other models to build from. Unfortunately that length is just a little long for a D instrument and although it will reach with a nylon topstring it sounds shrill to my ears. With few people having an F lute this has been the defacto descant in D for the Pacaloni trios. The Vallet quartets demand two instruments an octave apart so the descant must be a D. When we found a shorter descant (40cm) the shrill factor decreased considerably and we use the "Tieffenbrucker" in C where it is considerably happier. F-tenor and C-descant make a very good 5th apart pair, too. Ed Martin has a collection of vihuelas including a descant. I'd be curious as to its length, tuning and topstring. Ed? Best wishes and thanks for all the music! Sean On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:07 AM, Anton Höger wrote: hi, is the tuning for the Sopran lute in "c" or "d"? I mean the open highest string of the sopran lute? Thanks Aton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[LUTE] Re: Sopranlute
That's very interesting, Martin.
What is the reckoning behind the bass lute in C? How long is that?! It
probably sounds very impressive but I think the trios can sound pretty
strong in most ranges. I'll agree, the small lute in d is pretty
shrill but in a dance situation it would cut through the stomping on
hardwood floors, gabbing gossipers and, possibly, the scraping of
plates.
I've often wondered if Pacaloni was offering a set of books that could
be used in ensembles for _as many as_ three lutes and _also_ (though
tacitly) in a variety of tunings and combinations (as did Hume
although he was more forethcoming about the variety) ie, he was
writing for many possibilities. Many, if not all, can work as duos and
the upper parts can even function as solos w/ a little raiding of
other parts for divisions or structure. With the addition of the
Viaera cittern parts the instrumental possibilities again expand. For
us, that expanded yet again w/ the addition of a bass cittern into the
mix.
Then yet yet again, the books come about fairly late and they may even
have been pirated from his notes or ...who knows? There's a lot of
guesswork in Pacaloni and I'm afraid I use it to the advantage of
whichever instruments are around. Or we feel like tuning up. Or humans
to play them. Or what key we want to be in.
On the subject of the descant lute though. I must confess that I enjoy
playing it for solo rep. There's an awful lot that doesn't work on it
(haha, Bakfark! Suzanne! Dowland!) but there's plenty that does. And
it's so delightfully portable!
best wishes,
Sean
On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Hi All,
The Tieffenbrucker ("WE" = Wendelin Eberle?) lute which everyone makes
a version of is actually 44cm. I agree with Sean, it is possible to
tune it to d'' at modern pitch with nylon strings, but it is the
equivalent of tuning your 59cm "G lute" up to a', so not recommended.
Last year I finally did the experiment - low tension, all gut strings
in c'', and it suddenly sounded right. Sometimes we need to trust the
historical evidence!
Best wishes,
Martin
P.S. By the way, the "correct" way to play Pacoloni (no half measures)
is bass in C, tenor in D, treble in G. But a tone higher than that is
good (easier to find suitable instruments), and even F, G, C is good.
Anything which involves regarding a G lute as a "bass" is a bit of a
joke.
On 02/06/2011 15:10, Sean Smith wrote:
Short answer, Anton: There are plenty of duos for 4th apart. and
there are plenty of duos for 5th apart. There has been little to no
information about how to pitch the smaller instrument --or even the
larger. Specify which and your playing audience will find the
instruments. I find 4th apart to be very useful.
In the 1990's there was an American builder who built quite a few
Tieffenbrucker descant copies at a 43cm mensur. There don't seem to
be any other models to build from. Unfortunately that length is just
a little long for a D instrument and although it will reach with a
nylon topstring it sounds shrill to my ears. With few people having
an F lute this has been the defacto descant in D for the Pacaloni
trios. The Vallet quartets demand two instruments an octave apart so
the descant must be a D.
When we found a shorter descant (40cm) the shrill factor decreased
considerably and we use the "Tieffenbrucker" in C where it is
considerably happier. F-tenor and C-descant make a very good 5th
apart pair, too.
Ed Martin has a collection of vihuelas including a descant. I'd be
curious as to its length, tuning and topstring. Ed?
Best wishes and thanks for all the music!
Sean
On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:07 AM, Anton Höger wrote:
hi,
is the tuning for the Sopran lute in "c" or "d"?
I mean the open highest string of the sopran lute?
Thanks
Aton
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sopranlute
Thank you, Martin.
88cm. I've never seen a 6-c that long but that doesn't mean much. If
someone really wanted one in the 16th century I'm sure some builder
was happy to oblige. My bass lute is a meagre 72cm which I push down
to a D and I have an E at 68cm so I'm almost ready to go. I should
have an A lute but don't mind the small rewrite necessary to press the
ren guitar into service instead. As you well know, no-one plays
Pacaloni without it being edited first.
We just played some Pacaloni and followed it with complementary custom
settings of the 266 and Diversi Autori versions of La Traditora.
Between the two of us we got to pull out a lot of instruments and some
of it wasn't what was advertised on the tin. Then there was the
Mazolo(DA) trio'd for r. guitar, diatonic cittern and harp. Such great
--and fun-- music: it's hard to imagine it didn't spill out to other
instruments or hadn't been for others before. I (self-servedly)
believe that any of these early dance books were merely jumping off
points for the enterprising lutenist considering all those overlapping
dances from the 1540's and then all those zillions of Anticoes from
the '50's to the '80's. I've Fronimoed at least a 100 variations for a
similar 'currently-coasting' project.
Do blow the dust off the Pacaloni edits and perhaps consider letting
the UK LS put it out. (Or maybe offer it as a complementary set when
someone orders a Pacaloni trio of instruments from you!). We might
even have a few that you didn't edit yet. It would be a nice addition
to the Lynda Sayce editions of the Phalese duets and get more other-
size lutes into play.
Sean
On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:26 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Hi Sean,
There's no reckoning involved - it's just nice if you can get hold of
the instrument, but it does need to be c.88cm.
The D, E, A combination is easier to obtain and does work well. Often
a lute of about 67cm will tune happily to E.
I think there's no doubt the Pacoloni we have is somewhat removed from
the original, though of course it's impossible to know whether the
original was any less incompetent in the matter of root position
chords when they should be first inversions, and so on. (the classic
case, which happens over and over again, is C major harmony where one
lute has an E in the bass, harmonized as root position, i.e. E minor).
The nature of the arrangements is interesting. Many pieces seem to
have what amounts to a solo in the Tenor part (e.g. the "Tant que
vivray" set) with the Superius providing a descant. You're absolutely
right that some of the pieces can work as duets or have other parts
added. Many years ago I edited a substantial chunk of this material
but never got around to publishing it. Let me know if you're
interested to have any of it for playing with the addition of double-
slide music stand, bagpipe, etc.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 02/06/2011 17:51, Sean Smith wrote:
That's very interesting, Martin.
What is the reckoning behind the bass lute in C? How long is that?!
It probably sounds very impressive but I think the trios can sound
pretty strong in most ranges. I'll agree, the small lute in d is
pretty shrill but in a dance situation it would cut through the
stomping on hardwood floors, gabbing gossipers and, possibly, the
scraping of plates.
I've often wondered if Pacaloni was offering a set of books that
could be used in ensembles for _as many as_ three lutes and _also_
(though tacitly) in a variety of tunings and combinations (as did
Hume although he was more forethcoming about the variety) ie, he was
writing for many possibilities. Many, if not all, can work as duos
and the upper parts can even function as solos w/ a little raiding
of other parts for divisions or structure. With the addition of the
Viaera cittern parts the instrumental possibilities again expand.
For us, that expanded yet again w/ the addition of a bass cittern
into the mix.
Then yet yet again, the books come about fairly late and they may
even have been pirated from his notes or ...who knows? There's a lot
of guesswork in Pacaloni and I'm afraid I use it to the advantage of
whichever instruments are around. Or we feel like tuning up. Or
humans to play them. Or what key we want to be in.
On the subject of the descant lute though. I must confess that I
enjoy playing it for solo rep. There's an awful lot that doesn't
work on it (haha, Bakfark! Suzanne! Dowland!) but there's plenty
that does. And it's so delightfully portable!
best wishes,
Sean
On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Hi All,
The Tieffenbrucker ("WE" = Wendelin Eberle?) lute which everyone
makes a version of is actually 44cm. I agree with
[LUTE] A question about Bakfark's lute music
Dear Eugene, As Jacob H's name was brought up I'd recommend the Josquin CD instead (or as well). One of Bakfark's finest settings is there and it's interesting to hear how Bakfark differed from others when intabulating similar material. For example, Simon Gintzler's and Albert deRippe's styles are very different but equally successful and may lead you to see the mid-16th century intabulation process in a new light. best wishes, Sean On Jul 1, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Eugene Kurenko wrote: G. Crona, Eugene and Alan thanks a lot for yours replies! It helps very much! Alan (who's only dared to tackle 'Si grand e la pieta' - I can send you the tab I used in a lesson with JH, complete with his fingerings & sustains) Oh I'll be happy to get this tab if it's possible. Please! Eugene -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: colliding strings
I think I know how she solved her problem of colliding strings. On Jul 22, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Peter Nightingale wrote: Van Lennep may have also struck a compromise based on the size of the hands of lutenist for whom he made the instrument originally, and who sold it to me when she had had enough of luting. Peter. On Sat, 23 Jul 2011, Ed Durbrow wrote: You have articulated the conundrum. Joel van Lennep is probably basing his instruments on historical instruments. Spacing on historical instruments is sometimes impossible for us moderns. We might collectively be missing something. Either they had some string technology we are not aware of or they liked twang or they played very lightly near the bridge. Who knows? I'll dig out my archlute and see what the spacing is. Again, I had the bridge re-drilled on it to give me more space on the double courses. On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:32 PM, Peter Nightingale wrote: Ed, Suzanne, Roman, Alexander, ... Thanks for your suggestions. I remain confused by colliding strings and ditto realities. I cannot believe that Joel van Lennep would make an instrument with the design flaws your comments imply. Could it be that my lute does not live up to your expectations, because it is a 14 course archlute. (BTW, Suzanne seems to have a space problem too.) The courses have to be close together for the instrument to be playable, it would seem. The distance between the string of the 6th and 7th courses is is roughly 4mm, 8mm, and 4mm. If pairs of the individual courses were to be 5mm apart, this would become 5mm, 6mm, 5mm. It would introduce a 6.5th course, a revolutionary design! My guess is that the compromise that was made tries to avoid the the clanging disaster by creating more space at the nut. Actually, there is more: the octave strings are slightly closer to the sound board than the fundamentals in both courses. Thanks again, Peter. the next auto-quote is: A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. (Albert Einstein) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ the next auto-quote is: Operationally, God is beginning to resemble not a ruler but the last fading smile of a cosmic Cheshire Cat. (Julian Huxley) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] Saltarello secondo della Duchessa and La Pistrinara
I've been spending a little time in the Intabulatura di Lauto del [FdM] et PPBorrono, Libro secondo, 1546, Venice and I'm curious about the first "suite". La Duchessa is the 2nd of 3 saltarellos that follow La Borroncina (a self reference to PPB? eg, Il Gorzanis) and also appears in the Pacaloni trios. The passemezo and other saltarellos are loose variations on it giving me the idea that it may be a signature dance piece for PPB. Any further information on the piece (or book) would be appreciated. Any idea who "la Duchessa" may be? An unexpected link from Pacaloni to the LeRoy guitar books surfaced in the Saltarello, La Pistrinara. It appears to be a reworking of the guitar song O combien est (Certon) and the melody is carried in the Superius. As usual for Pacaloni, the chords are a little off but it possibly argues for the Pacaloni Superius to be an A lute --or G lute if we tune our guitars to G. This would argue for Stewart's suggestion of a "low" trio for Pacaloni. Speaking of the "low" tuning, recently we've been playing Pacaloni as duos w/ a bass cittern tuned to C for the Bassus parts and the Superius on a G lute. Very impressive and a big sound for only two of us! I get the feeling from the flavor of the dances that PPB is somewhat connected to it despite Pac's late date. Any ideas on that? And the $.64 question: What is a "la pistrinara"? many thanks in advance, Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saltarello secondo della Duchessa and La Pistrinara
Thanks, Donna. It hadn't come up in the translate things and had to make sure s On Jul 29, 2011, at 5:45 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: Hi, Sean - Donna here, with my sixty four cents' worth. According to the 1611 Florio's, a 'pistrina' is a bake-house or mill, and a 'pistrinaro' is a miller, or baker. 'Pistrinara' doesn't merit a mention, but you can probably figure it out. Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 16:57:26 -0700 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: lutesm...@mac.com Subject: [LUTE] Saltarello secondo della Duchessa and La Pistrinara I've been spending a little time in the Intabulatura di Lauto del [FdM] et PPBorrono, Libro secondo, 1546, Venice and I'm curious about the first "suite". La Duchessa is the 2nd of 3 saltarellos that follow La Borroncina (a self reference to PPB? eg, Il Gorzanis) and also appears in the Pacaloni trios. The passemezo and other saltarellos are loose variations on it giving me the idea that it may be a signature dance piece for PPB. Any further information on the piece (or book) would be appreciated. Any idea who "la Duchessa" may be? An unexpected link from Pacaloni to the LeRoy guitar books surfaced in the Saltarello, La Pistrinara. It appears to be a reworking of the guitar song O combien est (Certon) and the melody is carried in the Superius. As usual for Pacaloni, the chords are a little off but it possibly argues for the Pacaloni Superius to be an A lute --or G lute if we tune our guitars to G. This would argue for Stewart's suggestion of a "low" trio for Pacaloni. Speaking of the "low" tuning, recently we've been playing Pacaloni as duos w/ a bass cittern tuned to C for the Bassus parts and the Superius on a G lute. Very impressive and a big sound for only two of us! I get the feeling from the flavor of the dances that PPB is somewhat connected to it despite Pac's late date. Any ideas on that? And the $.64 question: What is a "la pistrinara"? many thanks in advance, Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: tuner re's
You don't need the phone. The Cleartune tuner is downloadable to any iPad Touch. You may be able to pick up a used 1st or 2nd generation for fairly cheap at this point. Sean On Aug 5, 2011, at 6:55 AM, R. Mattes wrote: On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:22:13 -0400, Garry Warber wrote Thank you all... I only discovered electronic-tuner handiness from my grandson when he used his app on his I-phone last month. I personally do not have a cell phone, by choice. But you can use the 'cell phone' just as an excellent digital tuner. And with Android systems in the range of 90$ plus 4$ for ClearTune you're still at appr. half the price of a Violab tuner. So, if I'm getting this, any 440 tuner would work by tuning every course a full step "low", then do a mind trick of telling yourself it's regular lute tuning? For example my lute would become, low to high, C, E-flat, F,B-flat, E-flat, G, C, F, which I would then convince myself it's still D, F, G, C, F, A, D, G in a=392? Wow... Perhaps just staying at a=415 is just fine... Kind of: 392 (well, 391.9...) is one tempered whole step below 440. But I find it anoying to transpose while tuning. And that -only_ works for equal temprament. In pythagorean the whole step below 440 is at 384 etc. HTH Ralf Mattes Garry -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
[LUTE] Re: tuner re's
Ooops! But you will need a microphone. Meritline sells one for $2 that is essentially a little button that plugs into the earphones slot. http://www.meritline.com/apple-mini-microphone-mic-recorder---p-37453.aspx You don't need the phone. The Cleartune tuner is downloadable to any iPad Touch. You may be able to pick up a used 1st or 2nd generation for fairly cheap at this point. Sean On Aug 5, 2011, at 6:55 AM, R. Mattes wrote: On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:22:13 -0400, Garry Warber wrote Thank you all... I only discovered electronic-tuner handiness from my grandson when he used his app on his I-phone last month. I personally do not have a cell phone, by choice. But you can use the 'cell phone' just as an excellent digital tuner. And with Android systems in the range of 90$ plus 4$ for ClearTune you're still at appr. half the price of a Violab tuner. So, if I'm getting this, any 440 tuner would work by tuning every course a full step "low", then do a mind trick of telling yourself it's regular lute tuning? For example my lute would become, low to high, C, E-flat, F,B-flat, E-flat, G, C, F, which I would then convince myself it's still D, F, G, C, F, A, D, G in a=392? Wow... Perhaps just staying at a=415 is just fine... Kind of: 392 (well, 391.9...) is one tempered whole step below 440. But I find it anoying to transpose while tuning. And that -only_ works for equal temprament. In pythagorean the whole step below 440 is at 384 etc. HTH Ralf Mattes Garry -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works
This is an amazing source. V. Galilei could apparently write a galliard or variation as easily as we could fill in a daily crossword puzzle. I think I counted 200 variations on the Romanesca in every conceivable key (or for every size lute all in the same key) and the galliards are wonderful. Vincenzo writes in a clearly legible hand (i- tab, of course) although there is some unfortunate water damage making some passages difficult though not impossible. It also includes an informative introduction by Orlando Cristoforetti in Italian and English. Being a SPES edition it's relatively inexpensive. Sean On Aug 6, 2011, at 7:25 AM, A. J. Ness wrote: A bit more, Benny. The edition cited by Stephen contains gagliarde from an important Galilei dance source, an immense manuscript compiled by him perhaps in anticipation of additional printed tablatures. It contains clean copies of 275 pieces! Libro d'Intauolatura di liuto . . . composte in diuersi tempi da Vincentio Galilei scritto l'anno 1584, Ms. Fondo anteriori di Galileo 6, in the Biblioteca nationale centrale in Florence. There is a facsimile edition, edited by Orlando Christoforetti (Florence: S.P.E.S, 1991). The gagliarde published by Giulia Perni come from part three of the manuscript and have descriptive titles, e.g., Polymnia (the muse of sacred music--used in Respighi's Ancient Airs and Dances), Amarilli, Clio, Calliope, etc. There is a second section of gagliarde by "Autori diversi," but no composer attributions are given; many of the pieces are by Santino Garsi da Parma, however. Otherwise the manuscript contains passamezzos, romanescas, and saltarellos, most with many virtuoso varied reprises. AJN - Original Message - From: <[1]be...@interlog.com> To: "LuteNet list" <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:19 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works Thanks, folks! BCS Quoting Stephen Arndt <[3]stephenar...@earthlink.net>: I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather liked it: Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione critica con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione moderna Responsibility Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni Publication Info Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, (c)2000 -Original Message- From: [4]be...@interlog.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM To: LuteNet list Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works: Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto the only collection of his stuff, or did he write more? I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:be...@interlog.com 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:stephenar...@earthlink.net 4. mailto:be...@interlog.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Music Online
Searching under "guitar" will bring up the 4 Adrian LeRoy / Gregoire Brayssing renaissance guitar books. Thank you, Arthur and Kakinami-san, for this great source! Sean On Aug 14, 2011, at 5:54 AM, T.Kakinami wrote: Many thanks. There are 32 lute related materials. Kakinami. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of A. J. Ness Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:10 AM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Lute Music Online In Progress. Search on "lute" [1]http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ And thanks to a colleague in the UK who tipped me off. -- References 1. http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Music Online
Lauri Niskanan on the Lute-Ning page kindly gave a very nice little tutorial for batch-downloading a book and w/ his permission (and addendum at 7b) I reprent it here. If you use Firefox (and if you don't, um... I dunno what plug-in to use for other browsers) - 1. Get Firefox 2. Tools -> Add-ons 3. In Get Add-ons, write "downthemall!" in the search field 4. Select "DownThemAll!" and click "add to firefox" 5. On any web page, in this case on the page where you see "links to resources" and the thumbnails, right click anywhere [Mac users: Ctrl +click], select "DownThemAll!" in the dropdown menu. 6. Select a folder to save the images in. Since the program saves individual images, you should make a folder per tablature book to better organize the files. 7. Under Filters, select JPEG images 7b. You should click "disable other filters" in the bottom right corner, so it doesn't download anything extra. 8. Under Fast Filtering, write */file/* (The images we want are the ones that have /file/ in their URL) 9. Under Download, you will now see links in red with selection marks before them, those ones will be downloaded. 10. Click Start! --- It just worked fine for me on the Mac and I don't see how it wouldn't work cross-platformly. Credit for this goes to Lauri for the instructions! Yay! more music! Sean On Aug 14, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote: Arthur, Thanks for the link. There's some really interesting stuff there! I didn't see a way to download files, though. Can one only view them? Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of A. J. Ness Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:10 AM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Lute Music Online In Progress. Search on "lute" [1]http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ And thanks to a colleague in the UK who tipped me off. -- References 1. http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: John Danyel
Metal strings, maybe? As in a small bandora? I suppose it would look like a tenor orpharion but I don't see any reason not to tune one like a bandora. Sean On Oct 25, 2011, at 3:58 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: My guess is that the "general pitch" at this period was around a tone lower than modern, so a "G lute" may have been around 67cm string length. I think one of the songs uses a "bass" lute in (nominal) D, so this may have been quite a big beast. The strange tuning used for "The Leaves be Green" is a kind of conceit (first pointed out by Tony Rooley many years ago - starting with a nominal G lute, the only courses which have *not* been changed in tuning are A and G, standing for "Anne Greene". If nominal G lute means starting with the 1st course in G, then there is no A course with Danyel's tuning. 9c G-lute: G4 - D4 - A3 - F3 - C3 - G2 || F2 - Eb2 - C2 Danyel: G4 - D4 - Bb3 - F3 - Bb2 - Ab2 || F2 - Eb2 - Bb1 If your guess is right, that the "general pitch" at this period was around a tone lower than modern, that would cause problems with the lowest course even on a big beast, or so I should guess. The fundamental would simply be too thick a string. The only solution that I can think of would be loaded guts. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: strumming Gervaise
I think they're doable on lute plucked as usual although a ren guitar or a cittern would be more suitable for strumming, IMHO. Sean On Oct 31, 2011, at 3:56 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote: > How would a strummer strum chords to these tunes composed (arranged?) by > Gervaise in the 1550s? > > http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Gervaise/ > > They are strong melodies (Poulenc arranged some Gervaise dances for piano - > but not these particular tunes). Maybe you just strum a chord according to > the bass line. It's easy enough to work out what each chord would be. But > playing at speed it would be formidably difficult to actually play them > unless you were a Freddy Green-type professional. These Gervaise arrangements > are in four parts and, as it stands, the bass is very easy to play as a > single note. But really not so easy at all when the chords are changing very > quickly. > > But it's often said that strummers strummed in these, and even earlier, > times. And, if so, surely they would have strummed to accompany tunes like > this. Would they have strummed a chord for each note as dictated by the rules > of four part harmony? Or something simpler - but potentially more rhythmic? > > > Stuart > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: strumming Gervaise
It's nice on the R guitar when the 4-part harmonies work but that is pretty rare. These bransles work best if the rhythm is accented rather than the harmonies so I'd find a strum that works about twice a measure and make sure a melody on the top works. For variation I'd rob from the alto or tenor lines and put them up an 8ve if that worked after the rhythm is established. And don't worry too much about the inversions except on important down beats. Even then It's fun to get the guitar moving as it pulls the lutenist's ear away from the relentless perfect harmonies. ;^) Sean On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:22 AM, Stuart Walsh wrote: : I think they're doable on lute plucked as usual although a ren guitar or a cittern would be more suitable for strumming, IMHO. Sean Thanks Sean and Benny. I actually meant ren guitar or cittern (I don't have either!). I was wondering exactly which chords would be strummed - for example in the two tunes http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Gervaise/ If you put a chord to each note on the bass line (easy to do) you sometimes would have to make extremely quick chord changes (which would be very difficult to do). Anyway, maybe this idea of putting a chord to a bass note is a continuo concept and not applicable to the 1550s? When Leroy made arrangements of some of these Gervaise tunes he got rid of the four-part harmony. The late James Tyler claimed that you could play the Leroy arrangements along with the four-part arrangements. But you would have to be making adjustments to the guitar part all the time. So I still wonder what chords an average strummer (four-course guitar or cittern)would actually play - for example on the tunes I uploaded. I could imagine that a modern folk guitarist would just look at the tune or just listen to it and come up with some chords which are both playable and more or less fit the melody (but not fit as closely as four-part harmony). But that would be what a modern folk player might do, and I wonder what a chordal instrument player might have done then. Stuart On Oct 31, 2011, at 3:56 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote: How would a strummer strum chords to these tunes composed (arranged?) by Gervaise in the 1550s? http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Gervaise/ They are strong melodies (Poulenc arranged some Gervaise dances for piano - but not these particular tunes). Maybe you just strum a chord according to the bass line. It's easy enough to work out what each chord would be. But playing at speed it would be formidably difficult to actually play them unless you were a Freddy Green-type professional. These Gervaise arrangements are in four parts and, as it stands, the bass is very easy to play as a single note. But really not so easy at all when the chords are changing very quickly. But it's often said that strummers strummed in these, and even earlier, times. And, if so, surely they would have strummed to accompany tunes like this. Would they have strummed a chord for each note as dictated by the rules of four part harmony? Or something simpler - but potentially more rhythmic? Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Cuts and burns on fingertips.
I have the dubious honor of working every day around a lot of razor blades, getting to chip away at lots of materials and even playing with fire, torches and acetone (tho not all at the same time, to OSHA's delight). It can be humbling. On the other hand, ahem, lutenists should learn to respect their hands as much as their instruments. Ie, Be Careful. Build up those Eye-Hand skills that sees the hand as much as the object. Of course, the inevitable does happen --as it always does. Keep thin plastic band-aids around. I've found I can still play well enough w/ a cut on a left finger tip with a band-aid over it. Burns, too. Try to do without gauze if possible. If the cut is recent, you're at risk of it opening and you may not realize it till you've colorfully decorated the neck and strings --I'd do w/out stringed instruments that day --at least. Sean On Nov 5, 2011, at 2:49 PM, Edward Mast wrote: I haven't tried this, but I wonder if one could play with surgical gloves on?? On Nov 5, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: Does anyone have a way to cover cuts on the fingertips, so that one could resume playing earlier in the healing process than would otherwise be possible? I tried "New-Skin" liquid bandage, but it does not dry stiff enough to do much good. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
