Re: Lucy and Michelle/Ear problems
Has a vet checked for yeast or mites? Beth Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am forwarding any post reagrding Lucy to Michelle. I have not heard from her in several days. I don't want to think about when it may be Junior's turn. He is only 4 and has several problems now. Not that I think he minds, but it bothers me. The eye thing has not resolved itself. He will just have really poor sight out of his good eye. The ears are something else. Has anyone had problems with ears in a FeLV cat. The lobes are swollen and thick and fell thicker everyday. He sometime will paw or scratch but it doesn't seem to bother him, I worry about an ear infection, but there is no discahrge or bad smell. I think sometimes at night just behind the ears feels swollen, but I don't know what it would be. anyone experience this? He actually acts like he feels pretty good. I do wprry of course about everything. Sally Davis -- - TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV.
Re: Lucy and Michelle/Ear problems
Hi Beth He was checked out by a vet and there was no infection or mites just the inflammation. A that time he gave Junior a steroid shot and the swelling went down, but it only lasted a couple of days. I do have some Tresaderm that I am going to use on him. It was given to him last spring after he came home from being hit by a car. He did have mites at that time. His ears have been clear ever since then. One thing today he feels great!. He ran after me thinking he was getting another goody, (he did get one). I have not seen him move that fast in ages. Maybe all the supplements he gets is making him feel better. I love my Junior so much. I am hoping he can make it until March 9th when he has a real appointment scheduled. So far all his visits have been sick visits or getting the immuno-regulin shots. Maybe not he is supposed to get the feline distemper shots. He did not get vaccinated when Tiny did because he was sick at that time. One day at a time. Daisy is out of heat but for how long I don't know. She was only out of heat for two days the last time. Her appointment is Feb 27. Very sorry to hear of you loss Laura. Thanks for being such a good mom. Thanks Sally On 2/15/07, Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has a vet checked for yeast or mites? Beth *Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: I am forwarding any post reagrding Lucy to Michelle. I have not heard from her in several days. I don't want to think about when it may be Junior's turn. He is only 4 and has several problems now. Not that I think he minds, but it bothers me. The eye thing has not resolved itself. He will just have really poor sight out of his good eye. The ears are something else. Has anyone had problems with ears in a FeLV cat. The lobes are swollen and thick and fell thicker everyday. He sometime will paw or scratch but it doesn't seem to bother him, I worry about an ear infection, but there is no discahrge or bad smell. I think sometimes at night just behind the ears feels swollen, but I don't know what it would be. anyone experience this? He actually acts like he feels pretty good. I do wprry of course about everything. Sally Davis -- -- TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Pickshttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49979/*http://tv.yahoo.com/on Yahoo! TV. --
Re: Lucy and Michelle/Ear problems
I would consider not vaccinating Junior for anything unless the risk of the disease is greater than the risk of the vaccine ---highly unlikely if he stays inside. Dixie will never be vaccinated for anything again. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Sally Davis To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: Re: Lucy and Michelle/Ear problems Hi Beth He was checked out by a vet and there was no infection or mites just the inflammation. A that time he gave Junior a steroid shot and the swelling went down, but it only lasted a couple of days. I do have some Tresaderm that I am going to use on him. It was given to him last spring after he came home from being hit by a car. He did have mites at that time. His ears have been clear ever since then. One thing today he feels great!. He ran after me thinking he was getting another goody, (he did get one). I have not seen him move that fast in ages. Maybe all the supplements he gets is making him feel better. I love my Junior so much. I am hoping he can make it until March 9th when he has a real appointment scheduled. So far all his visits have been sick visits or getting the immuno-regulin shots. Maybe not he is supposed to get the feline distemper shots. He did not get vaccinated when Tiny did because he was sick at that time. One day at a time. Daisy is out of heat but for how long I don't know. She was only out of heat for two days the last time. Her appointment is Feb 27. Very sorry to hear of you loss Laura. Thanks for being such a good mom. Thanks Sally On 2/15/07, Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has a vet checked for yeast or mites? Beth Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am forwarding any post reagrding Lucy to Michelle. I have not heard from her in several days. I don't want to think about when it may be Junior's turn. He is only 4 and has several problems now. Not that I think he minds, but it bothers me. The eye thing has not resolved itself. He will just have really poor sight out of his good eye. The ears are something else. Has anyone had problems with ears in a FeLV cat. The lobes are swollen and thick and fell thicker everyday. He sometime will paw or scratch but it doesn't seem to bother him, I worry about an ear infection, but there is no discahrge or bad smell. I think sometimes at night just behind the ears feels swollen, but I don't know what it would be. anyone experience this? He actually acts like he feels pretty good. I do wprry of course about everything. Sally Davis -- TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. --
Re: Lucy and Michelle/Ear problems
I have 8 other cats 5 are in/out cats, 2 are inside only and one is outside only(her choice). I know it is controversial the Merck Manual says to vaccinate except for FeLV. I do not try to keep them separated because it is less stressful. They are vaccinated against distemper, rabies and FeLV. Tiny did fine with the vaccines he died of something unrelated. I may just do the immuno-regulin. Any other opinions here. Thanks for your opinion. Sally Davis On 2/15/07, Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would consider not vaccinating Junior for anything unless the risk of the disease is greater than the risk of the vaccine ---highly unlikely if he stays inside. Dixie will never be vaccinated for anything again. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - *From:* Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:38 PM *Subject:* Re: Lucy and Michelle/Ear problems Hi Beth He was checked out by a vet and there was no infection or mites just the inflammation. A that time he gave Junior a steroid shot and the swelling went down, but it only lasted a couple of days. I do have some Tresaderm that I am going to use on him. It was given to him last spring after he came home from being hit by a car. He did have mites at that time. His ears have been clear ever since then. One thing today he feels great!. He ran after me thinking he was getting another goody, (he did get one). I have not seen him move that fast in ages. Maybe all the supplements he gets is making him feel better. I love my Junior so much. I am hoping he can make it until March 9th when he has a real appointment scheduled. So far all his visits have been sick visits or getting the immuno-regulin shots. Maybe not he is supposed to get the feline distemper shots. He did not get vaccinated when Tiny did because he was sick at that time. One day at a time. Daisy is out of heat but for how long I don't know. She was only out of heat for two days the last time. Her appointment is Feb 27. Very sorry to hear of you loss Laura. Thanks for being such a good mom. Thanks Sally On 2/15/07, Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has a vet checked for yeast or mites? Beth *Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: I am forwarding any post reagrding Lucy to Michelle. I have not heard from her in several days. I don't want to think about when it may be Junior's turn. He is only 4 and has several problems now. Not that I think he minds, but it bothers me. The eye thing has not resolved itself. He will just have really poor sight out of his good eye. The ears are something else. Has anyone had problems with ears in a FeLV cat. The lobes are swollen and thick and fell thicker everyday. He sometime will paw or scratch but it doesn't seem to bother him, I worry about an ear infection, but there is no discahrge or bad smell. I think sometimes at night just behind the ears feels swollen, but I don't know what it would be. anyone experience this? He actually acts like he feels pretty good. I do wprry of course about everything. Sally Davis -- -- TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Pickshttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49979/*http://tv.yahoo.com/on Yahoo! TV. -- -- Junior needs your help with his care fighting Feline Leukemia. Our story www.geocities.com/dmyllas/sally_page.html please help us if you can https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclickbusiness=puttyrat%40k6az.com
Re: Lucy
Please let Michelle know how sorry I am . Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Everyone, Michelle wanted everyone to know Lucy passed yesterday afternoon with help from the vet. She had the vet come to the house. I think it would be appropriate to add her to the CLS. I am so sad. I feel like she was one of my own. I know everything was done for her. Sally Davis, Junior, Speedy, Spike, Grey and WHite. Itlle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver Angels, Fluffy, Tiny, Pumpkin, Lionel, and all the rest from years past
RE: Lucy
Oh, poor Michelle. She fought so hard for her girl. Sweetest of Bridge vibes to Lucy, and hugs to Michelle. Diane R. Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, Michelle wanted everyone to know Lucy passed yesterday afternoon with help from the vet. She had the vet come to the house. I think it would be appropriate to add her to the CLS. I am so sad. I feel like she was one of my own. I know everything was done for her. Sally Davis, Junior, Speedy, Spike, Grey and WHite. Itlle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver Angels, Fluffy, Tiny, Pumpkin, Lionel, and all the rest from years past This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties.
Re: Lucy and Michelle
My heart breaks for Michelle and I pray that her grief will ease with time. Lucy was so lucky to have someone love her so much. We love and miss Michelle , but understand that she needs time to heal. She will be in my prayers daily. Sheila
Re: Lucy
GLOW to guide sweet lucy's path to the bridge, and to heal michelle's heart. On 2/10/07, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, Michelle wanted everyone to know Lucy passed yesterday afternoon with help from the vet. She had the vet come to the house. I think it would be appropriate to add her to the CLS. I am so sad. I feel like she was one of my own. I know everything was done for her. Sally Davis, Junior, Speedy, Spike, Grey and WHite. Itlle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver Angels, Fluffy, Tiny, Pumpkin, Lionel, and all the rest from years past -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Lucy
I am so sorry. May all the angels surround Lucy and Michelle. This is so very hard. Please let Michelle know that Lucy is very grateful for all the love and care. She wants Michelle to know that she did exactly the right things at exactly the right times and that her heart will heal and grow. Lucy was sent to teach Michelle many lessons and Michelle is learning one of the hardest right now. Blessings to her. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Lucy GLOW to guide sweet lucy's path to the bridge, and to heal michelle's heart. On 2/10/07, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, Michelle wanted everyone to know Lucy passed yesterday afternoon with help from the vet. She had the vet come to the house. I think it would be appropriate to add her to the CLS. I am so sad. I feel like she was one of my own. I know everything was done for her. Sally Davis, Junior, Speedy, Spike, Grey and WHite. Itlle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver Angels, Fluffy, Tiny, Pumpkin, Lionel, and all the rest from years past -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Lucy
This is very sad news. I kept hoping for a miracle. Michelle will be in my prayers. Lance On Feb 10, 2007, at 8:35 AM, Sally Davis wrote: Hi Everyone, Michelle wanted everyone to know Lucy passed yesterday afternoon with help from the vet. She had the vet come to the house. I think it would be appropriate to add her to the CLS. I am so sad. I feel like she was one of my own. I know everything was done for her. Sally Davis, Junior, Speedy, Spike, Grey and WHite. Itlle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver Angels, Fluffy, Tiny, Pumpkin, Lionel, and all the rest from years past
Re: Lucy
Thank you for letting us know - I am so very sorry. Michelle loved Lucy so much. elizabeth On 2/10/07, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, Michelle wanted everyone to know Lucy passed yesterday afternoon with help from the vet. She had the vet come to the house. I think it would be appropriate to add her to the CLS. I am so sad. I feel like she was one of my own. I know everything was done for her. Sally Davis, Junior, Speedy, Spike, Grey and WHite. Itlle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver Angels, Fluffy, Tiny, Pumpkin, Lionel, and all the rest from years past
Re: Lucy and unsubscribing
Michelle, I've learned a lot from you and I really value your opinion. I hope that you just take a break from the list mail and take time for yourself right now. Please don't unsubscribe. Gina Susan Loesch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ditto, Michelle. We all have different feelings and opinions -- and nobody is trying to tell you what to do. What is right for one person isn't right for another. One thing I like about the list is the way we play devil's advocate for one another -- sometimes asking hard questions. Then whoever is on the receiving end can take what they want and leave the rest. Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't go Michelle, we all value your knowledge and input and want to be able to help you (whether by advice or just being an ear to hear) as you have helped so many of us. You having Gray there to be a 2nd pair of eyes is a blessing for YOU. Surely, you trust him to tell you if he thinks you're trying too hard to save Lucy. HIS and YOUR opinions and knowledge of Lucy are the best that exist and you have gone through the deaths of animal friends together before. And the making or not-making of the decision to assist. That said, I certainly see that a break from the list could be helpful to you and your state of mind. Would you be willing to just go No-Mail? GLOW to you and your family for strength, clarity and peace. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 6:49:31 PM Subject: Lucy and unsubscribing Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to push Patched out of the way. I know she has FIP, or most likely does. I know there is no real cure and it will get her. But today does not seem to be the day, and I do not think it is selfish to decide that. Someone who can and wants to climb stairs, wants to eat (even if not a normal amount), wants company and pets, and can go running over to a bowl of food is, in my opinion, not asking to be killed. To whoever wrote that I should not do home euthanasia, I was not considering home euthanasia, I was considering, in an emergency if she gets in distress, tranquilizing her until a vet could come or we could get to a vet. i did that with Simon and he immediately slept and actually died in his sleep before we needed to. But it was not intended as euthanasia. I and several others on the list have also used oral valium to ease passings, and it has done so. I do not think this is irrational. I stopped reading posts after that and just deleted, to whoever wrote something in the subject line about allowing suffering. Given that I had just come downstairs from Lucy's little trek and eating spree, it seemed too ridiculous to read. This list has been a godsend for me at times, and I have made friendships with a few of you that I hope to continue offline from the group. But this group is not helping me right now and is actually upsetting me quite a bit. So I am unsubscribing. Nina and Hideyo, I hope to stay in touch with you individually, and anyone else who actually wants to, and to share ideas and emotional support. But I am done with the group. Michelle - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. Visit my Tigger Tales site! - We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
Re: Lucy and unsubscribing
Me too. It can be so awful. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: cindy reasoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Lucy and unsubscribing Michelle, I just wanted to tell you that you, Lucy and Gray are in my prayers. I am so sorry all of you are having to go through this. Cindy Reasoner --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to push Patched out of the way. I know she has FIP, or most likely does. I know there is no real cure and it will get her. But today does not seem to be the day, and I do not think it is selfish to decide that. Someone who can and wants to climb stairs, wants to eat (even if not a normal amount), wants company and pets, and can go running over to a bowl of food is, in my opinion, not asking to be killed. To whoever wrote that I should not do home euthanasia, I was not considering home euthanasia, I was considering, in an emergency if she gets in distress, tranquilizing her until a vet could come or we could get to a vet. i did that with Simon and he immediately slept and actually died in his sleep before we needed to. But it was not intended as euthanasia. I and several others on the list have also used oral valium to ease passings, and it has done so. I do not think this is irrational. I stopped reading posts after that and just deleted, to whoever wrote something in the subject line about allowing suffering. Given that I had just come downstairs from Lucy's little trek and eating spree, it seemed too ridiculous to read. This list has been a godsend for me at times, and I have made friendships with a few of you that I hope to continue offline from the group. But this group is not helping me right now and is actually upsetting me quite a bit. So I am unsubscribing. Nina and Hideyo, I hope to stay in touch with you individually, and anyone else who actually wants to, and to share ideas and emotional support. But I am done with the group. Michelle Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Re: Lucy and unsubscribing
Michelle, I just wanted to tell you that you, Lucy and Gray are in my prayers. I am so sorry all of you are having to go through this. Cindy Reasoner --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to push Patched out of the way. I know she has FIP, or most likely does. I know there is no real cure and it will get her. But today does not seem to be the day, and I do not think it is selfish to decide that. Someone who can and wants to climb stairs, wants to eat (even if not a normal amount), wants company and pets, and can go running over to a bowl of food is, in my opinion, not asking to be killed. To whoever wrote that I should not do home euthanasia, I was not considering home euthanasia, I was considering, in an emergency if she gets in distress, tranquilizing her until a vet could come or we could get to a vet. i did that with Simon and he immediately slept and actually died in his sleep before we needed to. But it was not intended as euthanasia. I and several others on the list have also used oral valium to ease passings, and it has done so. I do not think this is irrational. I stopped reading posts after that and just deleted, to whoever wrote something in the subject line about allowing suffering. Given that I had just come downstairs from Lucy's little trek and eating spree, it seemed too ridiculous to read. This list has been a godsend for me at times, and I have made friendships with a few of you that I hope to continue offline from the group. But this group is not helping me right now and is actually upsetting me quite a bit. So I am unsubscribing. Nina and Hideyo, I hope to stay in touch with you individually, and anyone else who actually wants to, and to share ideas and emotional support. But I am done with the group. Michelle Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Re: Lucy and unsubscribing
Ditto, Michelle. We all have different feelings and opinions -- and nobody is trying to tell you what to do. What is right for one person isn't right for another. One thing I like about the list is the way we play devil's advocate for one another -- sometimes asking hard questions. Then whoever is on the receiving end can take what they want and leave the rest. Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Please don't go Michelle, we all value your knowledge and input and want to be able to help you (whether by advice or just being an ear to hear) as you have helped so many of us. You having Gray there to be a 2nd pair of eyes is a blessing for YOU. Surely, you trust him to tell you if he thinks you're trying too hard to save Lucy. HIS and YOUR opinions and knowledge of Lucy are the best that exist and you have gone through the deaths of animal friends together before. And the making or not-making of the decision to assist. That said, I certainly see that a break from the list could be helpful to you and your state of mind. Would you be willing to just go No-Mail? GLOW to you and your family for strength, clarity and peace. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 6:49:31 PM Subject: Lucy and unsubscribing Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to push Patched out of the way. I know she has FIP, or most likely does. I know there is no real cure and it will get her. But today does not seem to be the day, and I do not think it is selfish to decide that. Someone who can and wants to climb stairs, wants to eat (even if not a normal amount), wants company and pets, and can go running over to a bowl of food is, in my opinion, not asking to be killed. To whoever wrote that I should not do home euthanasia, I was not considering home euthanasia, I was considering, in an emergency if she gets in distress, tranquilizing her until a vet could come or we could get to a vet. i did that with Simon and he immediately slept and actually died in his sleep before we needed to. But it was not intended as euthanasia. I and several others on the list have also used oral valium to ease passings, and it has done so. I do not think this is irrational. I stopped reading posts after that and just deleted, to whoever wrote something in the subject line about allowing suffering. Given that I had just come downstairs from Lucy's little trek and eating spree, it seemed too ridiculous to read. This list has been a godsend for me at times, and I have made friendships with a few of you that I hope to continue offline from the group. But this group is not helping me right now and is actually upsetting me quite a bit. So I am unsubscribing. Nina and Hideyo, I hope to stay in touch with you individually, and anyone else who actually wants to, and to share ideas and emotional support. But I am done with the group. Michelle - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
RE: Lucy
Oh.. sorry-- I did not do a spell check! Yes, I meant precious To one who care for Lucy - Lucy is doing pretty good, actually -- my apology -- I just cannot type!!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:54 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy No, at least I haven't heard that. I think when Hideyo typed previous, she meant precious. catatonya wrote: Has Lucy passed? t */Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Michelle has unsubscribed the list -- Michelled called me and I had a long conversation this afternoon, I have not read Michell's posting or other's postings regarding the topic. I feel very strongly that we are here to support each other and not to be judgemental and not to assume anything.. There was time, when I was losing my kitties one oafter the other, I felt really bad by some of the postings which I felt were judgmental and I decided not to share my problems with my kitties any more on the list -- judgment is the last thing we need when we are going through difficult times with our kitties. A topic of when to say good by is can be very controverrtial issue -- I am probably one of the last person to decide to euthanize a cat -- partly due to my religious belief and partly because, I don't feel right to do it == it does not mean I am selfish - just as I am not going to be convincing people when not to ,, I would like not to be told when to do either.. but I am never going to be judgmental when others due when they do from caring.. We just need to respect each other --I will continue to pray for Michelle and her previous baby, Lucy...' Hideyo
Re: Lucy not eating
Michelle, The thing with force feeding is that it's worth it if it gets them through something, it's not worth it if it doesn't. And the hard thing with that is that you don't know which situation you're in. Give her a day to not eat to see if the appetite will come back of its own accord. Lucy seems to have been eating pretty well so far, and even 10 licks of the baby food is very encouraging. I've gotten to where I'm counting the pieces of kibble that go in on their own and if it's in the double digits, I'll claim success. You know from when you're sick that you can feel ill and not eat, or not eat much for a day, but then the next day, even if still sick, the hunger will get the best of you. You won't be putting her in harm's way if you let her not eat one day, in fact you might be doing her a service as it might be best to have an empty system for a bit to reset it, and you won't be fighting with the force feeding. I know about fatty liver disease, but it's more common for cats to fast and be okay than fast and get FLS. In my experience, the time/energy investment of forcefeeding compared to the amount of food that gets down is disproportionate. Be easy and patient both with yourself and Lucy, you're both doing the best you can. One of my forcefeeding battles resulted in another six months with my Hepburn. Even so, though, I don't know if it was necessary or worth it. Then at the end, I force fed when I shouldn't have. That was FIP (not confirmed through necropsy, but she had the distended belly and the fluid was drawn, etc). I regret putting us through that. If it's a cold, that's fabulous, give it a day to see if the Vick's helps, if the congestion loosens. It seems like she's been on a pendulum back and forth, which makes it exceedingly difficult to find patterns. All this to say that I know that you'll force feed and you're doing the best thing for Lucy. You'll know when to stop if it's necessary. Leslie From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Lucy not eating Well, as of last night she will not eat at all. She was hardly eating since I gave her the dex shot the night before, I think because it unmasked her URI and her nose got congested. I have a vicks vaporizer on for that, used nose drops, gave lysine, etc. but it is not clearing up this time. But she was eating a little. I then gave her denosyl for the third night in a row. And I think it made her nauseous, because she has not eaten a thing since and and she looked bad for about an hour afterwards. I looked it up and it can cause vomiting, apparently-- don't know how I missed that the first time. The second night I think it may have made her temporarily nauseous as well, but I thought it was the feline interferon. The result is that she is not eating at all now. I did syringe her a little (about 20 cc' baby food) last night. But she hated it. I don't know what to do. She probably has wet fip. I had told myself I would not torture her by force feeding her when she is terminal anyway. But I don't know now. What if she really is not eating just because her nose is stuffed up from the dex? Monday will be week 2 of epogen and feline interferon-- what if they started working? It is all doubtful. I do not want her last days to be full only of needles, pills, and forced feedings. I also don't want her to die early because of a stuffed up nose, if that is what is going on. what to do? Please pray for her. thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy (michelle, bless you, I'm so sorry I have to say this to you)
I care about you, and really want you to know I say this with every bit of compassion and care I can. I know you are suffering and confused, and desperate. Please know I have Lucy's well-being at heart when I say this to you... No, you are absolutely WRONG! Oh please do NOT attempt home euthanasia/sedation! Especially with expired drugs and old dull dirty needles?! My god, are you listening to yourself Michelle? Please THINK, ok? My step-dad did that with one of my mom's dogs, and it was HORRIBLE, my mom is still permanently traumatized, she had to hold the squealing, writhing, and miserable suffering dog all the way to the vet 30 miles away after my step dad tried to do it at home. PLEASE leave the euthanasia to the professionals I think you are really at the end of your rope, and not being rational anymore. Please believe me when I say it is MUCH better to euthanise a little too soon than even a little too late! But, for god's sake, don't try to do it yourself! You, yourself, in one of your last emails said it's obvious she is suffering at times. Do you really need any more of a sign than that? Lucy has lived a wonderful long life, full of love and good times, it is her time to leave. You can't fight it, you can't beat it, you can only prolong the end. The question is, is it something you SHOULD be prolonging? Is she HAPPY right now? Can you truly say she is HAPPY, and COMFORTABLE? Or are you just trying to convince yourself that she's Not suffering too bad? Then you must ask, is ANY suffering good? That will be your answer. Bless you Michelle, I know you are in such pain, and don't want to let go or give up on her, but you're so close to the subject that you can't get any perspective. Please take a step back and really CONSIDER the situation. Please take this as it's intended... I mean you no insult, but you are not being rational anymore. Phaewryn
Re: Lucy and unsubscribing
Oh Michelle PLEASE do not leave us.You have been here for me so many times and it just would not be the same without you here.Phaewryn was not trying to hurt you and maybe she misunderstood what you were saying.That is so easy to do while communicating this way.PLEASE reconsider. Sherry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to push Patched out of the way. I know she has FIP, or most likely does. I know there is no real cure and it will get her. But today does not seem to be the day, and I do not think it is selfish to decide that. Someone who can and wants to climb stairs, wants to eat (even if not a normal amount), wants company and pets, and can go running over to a bowl of food is, in my opinion, not asking to be killed. To whoever wrote that I should not do home euthanasia, I was not considering home euthanasia, I was considering, in an emergency if she gets in distress, tranquilizing her until a vet could come or we could get to a vet. i did that with Simon and he immediately slept and actually died in his sleep before we needed to. But it was not intended as euthanasia. I and several others on the list have also used oral valium to ease passings, and it has done so. I do not think this is irrational. I stopped reading posts after that and just deleted, to whoever wrote something in the subject line about allowing suffering. Given that I had just come downstairs from Lucy's little trek and eating spree, it seemed too ridiculous to read. This list has been a godsend for me at times, and I have made friendships with a few of you that I hope to continue offline from the group. But this group is not helping me right now and is actually upsetting me quite a bit. So I am unsubscribing. Nina and Hideyo, I hope to stay in touch with you individually, and anyone else who actually wants to, and to share ideas and emotional support. But I am done with the group. Michelle - Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
Re: Lucy
No, at least I haven't heard that. I think when Hideyo typed previous, she meant precious. catatonya wrote: Has Lucy passed? t */Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Michelle has unsubscribed the list -- Michelled called me and I had a long conversation this afternoon, I have not read Michell's posting or other's postings regarding the topic. I feel very strongly that we are here to support each other and not to be judgemental and not to assume anything.. There was time, when I was losing my kitties one oafter the other, I felt really bad by some of the postings which I felt were judgmental and I decided not to share my problems with my kitties any more on the list -- judgment is the last thing we need when we are going through difficult times with our kitties. A topic of when to say good by is can be very controverrtial issue -- I am probably one of the last person to decide to euthanize a cat -- partly due to my religious belief and partly because, I don't feel right to do it == it does not mean I am selfish - just as I am not going to be convincing people when not to ,, I would like not to be told when to do either.. but I am never going to be judgmental when others due when they do from caring.. We just need to respect each other --I will continue to pray for Michelle and her previous baby, Lucy...' Hideyo
Re: Lucy and unsubscribing
Please don't go Michelle, we all value your knowledge and input and want to be able to help you (whether by advice or just being an ear to hear) as you have helped so many of us. You having Gray there to be a 2nd pair of eyes is a blessing for YOU. Surely, you trust him to tell you if he thinks you're trying too hard to save Lucy. HIS and YOUR opinions and knowledge of Lucy are the best that exist and you have gone through the deaths of animal friends together before. And the making or not-making of the decision to assist. That said, I certainly see that a break from the list could be helpful to you and your state of mind. Would you be willing to just go No-Mail? GLOW to you and your family for strength, clarity and peace. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 6:49:31 PM Subject: Lucy and unsubscribing Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to push Patched out of the way. I know she has FIP, or most likely does. I know there is no real cure and it will get her. But today does not seem to be the day, and I do not think it is selfish to decide that. Someone who can and wants to climb stairs, wants to eat (even if not a normal amount), wants company and pets, and can go running over to a bowl of food is, in my opinion, not asking to be killed. To whoever wrote that I should not do home euthanasia, I was not considering home euthanasia, I was considering, in an emergency if she gets in distress, tranquilizing her until a vet could come or we could get to a vet. i did that with Simon and he immediately slept and actually died in his sleep before we needed to. But it was not intended as euthanasia. I and several others on the list have also used oral valium to ease passings, and it has done so. I do not think this is irrational. I stopped reading posts after that and just deleted, to whoever wrote something in the subject line about allowing suffering. Given that I had just come downstairs from Lucy's little trek and eating spree, it seemed too ridiculous to read. This list has been a godsend for me at times, and I have made friendships with a few of you that I hope to continue offline from the group. But this group is not helping me right now and is actually upsetting me quite a bit. So I am unsubscribing. Nina and Hideyo, I hope to stay in touch with you individually, and anyone else who actually wants to, and to share ideas and emotional support. But I am done with the group. Michelle No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Re: Lucy not eating
I would do the force feeding if she's not fighting it too much. If she's miserable and fighting it, I may consider it time to make that hard decision. Poor Lucy, your both have my sympathy, it's a tragic twist of fate for both of you. Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
To Michelle Re: Lucy update
Michelle, Reading this email just broke my heart. I can hear in your words how very much you love Lucy. I wish I could just hug both of you and do something for you both. No matter how strong my faith is, I always have questions. Everyone doesn't get to experience the natural cycle of life. Some have to go sooner, or more violently, or have to suffer. And those that should suffer, those who cause pain in the world, often aren't the ones chosen to suffer. Why? I don't know. I just have to let all the good that does happen outshine the bad. I hate that you might lose Lucy. She seems like so much more than a companion for you. Please gather strength from our prayers, and know that we are all thinking of you. :) Wendy --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Lucy screamed while they were feeling around her belly trying to find the place to put the needle in, but while they drained she just laid in my arms and purred. The fluid, which I was told was clear and thin on January 16 and 17 when samples were taken, looked pale yellow to me and the vet said the consistency was a bit thick. He sent some more out to be analyzed, but he feels quite sure it is fip. He filled a small bowl 2 or 3 times with fluid-- I would guess at least 100 or 200 cc's. And when the fluid stopped coming, he said he had reached the end of that pocket, but she still has a huge belly. He said he did not want to keep poking her all over trying to find the pockets to drain it from, and wants me to just see how she does with that much drained. He did not think her breathing was bad to begin with. He put the 1/2 cc dexamethasone shot into the catheter when it stopped draining. He said her belly may fill up faster now, since proteins were taken out of circulation by draining from the abdomen and lower proteins enable more effusion. I guess that is why some people have said it filled up faster after being drained. He was amazed that she is still eating. I think it must just be all the pred. I asked for leukeran. He wants to wait a couple of days and see what the new fluid analysis says and how she does on the increased pred and the dex that she got in her belly today. He is worried the leukeran might suppress her bone marrow more. He really does not think the fluid is from ibd or lymphoma, as he said he has never seen either create anywhere near this amount of fluid. She was happy to get home and walked around a little, though she looked a little wobbly. At one point she actually ran for about 20 feet or so, and her poor jelly belly swung from side to side as she did. Now she is camped out on the heating pad by her new favorite spot, a bookshelf where she heard a mouse this morning. She has been purring a lot more today, I think because I gave her more pred this morning and maybe she has had some fever and that took it away, I don't know. I so don't want to lose her, but know what Hideyo said is right. I asked the vet about coming to the home for euthanasia at some point and he said he will if he can schedule-wise. I asked him what will get her, as I have never had a cat with wet fip before. He did not know, as most people euthanize at diagnosis of wet fip he said. Does anyone know? Is it likely to be her anemia? Or will something else happen? He said she will probably stop eating at some point, despite the steroids. I do not think I will want to force-feed her, unless she seems to be otherwise feeling good. Right now she is falling asleep. She is my baby. Michelle Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396546091
RE: Lucy--what to do?
My dear Michelle- I am sorry that Lucy is still not eating - I don't know if this will make you feel a bit better or not.. my Ginger who is Felk positive have gone through a period that she did not eat anything at all over 3 months.. but the weird thing was, she did not act like she was sick or feeling sick.. just did not want to eat anything - she has done this for a couple of times for the past three years I have had her - and eventually she started eating - thank god..- obviously this is not the same situation with Lucy's case. I don't know if Lucy actually does have FIP.. if she does indeed have FIP, anorexia is a common symptom, and almost to be expected as part of the symptoms...all of my kitties with FIP stopped eating way before they got really sick, usually they feel nauseated due to the liver problem, but I don't know if this is what's happening to Lucy, either- Michelle, this just has been the first day, but even if she does not want to eat tomorrow - don't be in despair..see if you can assist feed her - sometimes, they just forget to eat (I know it sounds weird- that's how it was with Ginger).. I have been syringe feeding Ghandi and Ayumi for over 3 months now as they cannot eat on their own for different reasons.. but I keep my hopes.. and take one day at a time..and I do pray and keeping my hope for your baby Lucy.. she is going to overcome this somehow.. she always has... I don't know what's the best thing to give for Lucy - as I have asked for Nina for advise as to what I should do for my babies in the past.. and she would tell me her suggestion.. and I went ahead and did what I was going to do anyway against Nina's suggestion...:-) I am just that way.. If I were you, I might just let her body recoup and give it a break from all the drugs a bit.. but I am not there to see her.. I don't know for sure either... Please know that you and your baby Lucy are in my deep thought and prayers... Hugs, Hideyo.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? Dearest Michelle, As I wrote before, I just went through this same push/pull anxiety with Spencer. It's enough to give you a nervous breakdown. I'm feeling your pain right through the computer. I know Lucy is in bad shape, but it does sound like she's at least comfortable for the most part. When you talk about worsening symptoms, are you referring to her not eating? Today is the first time she hasn't eaten on her own, is that right? Stress will put her off her food, perhaps she's just regaining her strength. The thought of her enjoying a sun bath is encouraging. She may be strong enough to wait for the experts to decide a treatment protocol. I wish I had the answers for you Michelle. I'm afraid that no matter how much support we have from others, it always comes down to our call when dealing with so this sort of quandary. All I can tell you is that after I calmed my spirit and communed with Spencer, (my last experience with what you are going through), I felt a little more at peace with the circumstances. Unfortunately, Spencer did not have a long time left to share with me. I never gave up hope, but I did find a semblance of acceptance and peace. The benefit was that the time we did share was full of unconditional love, and I don't know how else to put it, full of quality. It didn't keep him with me in the physical, but it allowed us to bond in an extraordinary way. It was an incredible gift that we shared, at a very costly price. I'll always be grateful to him for the lessons learned during that heartrending time. I have no idea what I would do in your place. Missing the pieces of the puzzle make it so very difficult to make these sorts of decisions with conviction. I would never take the advice of anyone over what my own gut was telling me though. The specialists may be well meaning, they may even be sympathetic, but to them Lucy is a medical case, to you she is your heart. The way I see it is we are responsible for interpreting the wishes of our fur children and making sure that our decisions are based on love and not fear. You are the one that has to live with the consequences, no matter what those consequences may be. Clear your head. Sit quietly with her, your next move will come to you. All my love, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Red Bank called to say that now I do not have a return appointment for tomorrow, that the cytology reports won't be back until tomorrow, and that I will get a call tomorrow morning after the oncologist and internist look at the reports, with a plan. Meanwhile, this morning Lucy is not eating at all. I syringed her a little food, but am concerned at the worsening of symptoms. Her back end seems ok now, but she is drinking more. her fever went down last night with fluids and ice packs, but she is warm again-- but can't tell
Re: Lucy--what to do?
I can't do that. Once they have been on steroids long-term, you can't just stop it. It causes adrenal and circulatory problems and would make her feel way worse. In a message dated 2/2/2007 6:59:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I were you, I might just let her body recoup and give it a break from all the drugs a bit.. but I am not there to see her.. I don’t know for sure either…
RE: Lucy--what to do?
Oh.. I meant - to tape it down.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:08 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? I can't do that. Once they have been on steroids long-term, you can't just stop it. It causes adrenal and circulatory problems and would make her feel way worse. In a message dated 2/2/2007 6:59:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I were you, I might just let her body recoup and give it a break from all the drugs a bit.. but I am not there to see her.. I don't know for sure either...
Re: Lucy--what to do?
You can always gradually taper off. What does your vet say? How is Lucy doing this evening? elizabeth On 2/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't do that. Once they have been on steroids long-term, you can't just stop it. It causes adrenal and circulatory problems and would make her feel way worse. In a message dated 2/2/2007 6:59:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I were you, I might just let her body recoup and give it a break from all the drugs a bit.. but I am not there to see her.. I don't know for sure either…
Re: Lucy--what to do?
oh my, my vet. Well, my vet probably really wishes I would stop asking him these questions every day. My vet thinks there is no way to figure out what is happening, and that I should just decide on something and he will give me the meds. He is very accommodating, but not very decisive. He think she has wet fip, he thinks there is not all that much to do, he is surprised she has been eating to date, he has never heard of some of the stuff I have had him order to put her on (feline interferon) and has never used other stuff (epogen) and I think that he thinks I am trying to solve something without a solution. I was gradually tapering her until yesterday-- she was down to 10 mg/day. And she seemed way more lethargic. Which is why I decided to go the other way and gave her the dex. Now I am going back to 12.5 mg/day of prednisolone and seeing if that helps. She is up at the top of the cat tree again, though she needed some help to get to the top rung this time because her belly is so big it's hard for her to pull herself up there. I am surprised she is up there, because earlier she was so exhausted just from going to the litterbox that she laid down on her way back to take a break. She is eating some again, thank God, but not nearly as much as she was pre-dex. And I can not measure it anymore, because she is only interested in freshly opened jars of baby food today, and then only eats a little, so I have many open jars with a little bit gone and no idea how much she has eaten. I would guess maybe one jar full. Normally by this time of night she has been eating 2 or 2.5 jars full. But at least she is eating something. I syringed her a little food as well with herb tinctures I just got from Robert MacDowell in Australia, and she did not seem to mind so much, so maybe I should syringe her more, I don't know. I hate to bother her so much. she is very purry again, though. I really love her. thanks for asking, Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 8:06:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can always gradually taper off. What does your vet say? How is Lucy doing this evening? elizabeth
Re: Lucy--what to do?
It sounds like you have such a bond with her. She knows you are taking care of her...mine always seem to know. Please kiss sweet Lucy for me. I'm glad she is able to eat some. elizabeth On 2/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh my, my vet. Well, my vet probably really wishes I would stop asking him these questions every day. My vet thinks there is no way to figure out what is happening, and that I should just decide on something and he will give me the meds. He is very accommodating, but not very decisive. He think she has wet fip, he thinks there is not all that much to do, he is surprised she has been eating to date, he has never heard of some of the stuff I have had him order to put her on (feline interferon) and has never used other stuff (epogen) and I think that he thinks I am trying to solve something without a solution. I was gradually tapering her until yesterday-- she was down to 10 mg/day. And she seemed way more lethargic. Which is why I decided to go the other way and gave her the dex. Now I am going back to 12.5 mg/day of prednisolone and seeing if that helps. She is up at the top of the cat tree again, though she needed some help to get to the top rung this time because her belly is so big it's hard for her to pull herself up there. I am surprised she is up there, because earlier she was so exhausted just from going to the litterbox that she laid down on her way back to take a break. She is eating some again, thank God, but not nearly as much as she was pre-dex. And I can not measure it anymore, because she is only interested in freshly opened jars of baby food today, and then only eats a little, so I have many open jars with a little bit gone and no idea how much she has eaten. I would guess maybe one jar full. Normally by this time of night she has been eating 2 or 2.5 jars full. But at least she is eating something. I syringed her a little food as well with herb tinctures I just got from Robert MacDowell in Australia, and she did not seem to mind so much, so maybe I should syringe her more, I don't know. I hate to bother her so much. she is very purry again, though. I really love her. thanks for asking, Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 8:06:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can always gradually taper off. What does your vet say? How is Lucy doing this evening? elizabeth
Re: Lucy
Just curious, but what about Depo/Dex mixed or some OTHER form of steroid (maybe something you have not tried yet)? Or would that flare her IBD so bad it would make her miserable? And what about lasix for the fluid accumulation? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Lucy--what to do?
I'm sure you've read a ton of material on this, Michelle - I've only just begun to learn about this because of your experience. I found this in the Merck Veterinary Manual (you've probably already seen it)...(looked it up - 1kg = 2.20462262lb) Treatment is directed toward controlling the immune-mediated vasculitis and reducing viral load. The most effective treatments are combinations of prednisolone (4 mg/kg or 50-100 mg/m2, PO, sid) and cyclophosphamide (2-4 mg/kg, PO, sid for 4 consecutive days of each week). Alternatively, the cyclophosphamide can be given at 50 mg/m2, PO, every 48 hr or 200-300 mg/m2, every 2-3 wk. Other cytotoxic agents may be substituted for the cyclophosphamide, such as chlorambucil at 10 mg/m2, PO, every 2-3 wk. Because this cytotoxic therapy may suppress bone marrow cells, the hemogram should be monitored weekly and the cat observed carefully for signs of sepsis. Supportive therapy for FIP is important and includes broad-spectrum antibiotics, adequate nutrition and fluid intake, and high doses of ascorbic acid (125-250 mg, bid). The use of low doses of aspirin (10 mg/kg every 48-72 hr) may be useful as an anti-inflammatory and possibly antithrombotic agent when used along with the steroids and cytotoxic agents. Treatment directed toward controlling the virus includes systemic interferon-a (10,000 U/kg, SC, sid or 1.3 million U/m2, SC, 3 times/wk). I don't mean to send you things you already know -- I just feel so frustrated because I want to help so much and I just don't know how. love and hugs, elizabeth On 2/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh my, my vet. Well, my vet probably really wishes I would stop asking him these questions every day. My vet thinks there is no way to figure out what is happening, and that I should just decide on something and he will give me the meds. He is very accommodating, but not very decisive. He think she has wet fip, he thinks there is not all that much to do, he is surprised she has been eating to date, he has never heard of some of the stuff I have had him order to put her on (feline interferon) and has never used other stuff (epogen) and I think that he thinks I am trying to solve something without a solution. I was gradually tapering her until yesterday-- she was down to 10 mg/day. And she seemed way more lethargic. Which is why I decided to go the other way and gave her the dex. Now I am going back to 12.5 mg/day of prednisolone and seeing if that helps. She is up at the top of the cat tree again, though she needed some help to get to the top rung this time because her belly is so big it's hard for her to pull herself up there. I am surprised she is up there, because earlier she was so exhausted just from going to the litterbox that she laid down on her way back to take a break. She is eating some again, thank God, but not nearly as much as she was pre-dex. And I can not measure it anymore, because she is only interested in freshly opened jars of baby food today, and then only eats a little, so I have many open jars with a little bit gone and no idea how much she has eaten. I would guess maybe one jar full. Normally by this time of night she has been eating 2 or 2.5 jars full. But at least she is eating something. I syringed her a little food as well with herb tinctures I just got from Robert MacDowell in Australia, and she did not seem to mind so much, so maybe I should syringe her more, I don't know. I hate to bother her so much. she is very purry again, though. I really love her. thanks for asking, Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 8:06:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can always gradually taper off. What does your vet say? How is Lucy doing this evening? elizabeth
Re: Lucy--what to do? - pentoxifylline?
I've been praying for Lucy and visualizing her healthy. I've also been looking over various bits of FIP info on the web. I've come across references to pentoxifylline (Trental made by Aventis Pharmaceuticals). I was unable to find a reference to Trental in recent digests, so I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about it. If you're interested, Google pentoxifylline FIP. Lance On Feb 2, 2007, at 7:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh my, my vet. Well, my vet probably really wishes I would stop asking him these questions every day. My vet thinks there is no way to figure out what is happening, and that I should just decide on something and he will give me the meds. He is very accommodating, but not very decisive. He think she has wet fip, he thinks there is not all that much to do, he is surprised she has been eating to date, he has never heard of some of the stuff I have had him order to put her on (feline interferon) and has never used other stuff (epogen) and I think that he thinks I am trying to solve something without a solution. I was gradually tapering her until yesterday-- she was down to 10 mg/day. And she seemed way more lethargic. Which is why I decided to go the other way and gave her the dex. Now I am going back to 12.5 mg/day of prednisolone and seeing if that helps. She is up at the top of the cat tree again, though she needed some help to get to the top rung this time because her belly is so big it's hard for her to pull herself up there. I am surprised she is up there, because earlier she was so exhausted just from going to the litterbox that she laid down on her way back to take a break. She is eating some again, thank God, but not nearly as much as she was pre-dex. And I can not measure it anymore, because she is only interested in freshly opened jars of baby food today, and then only eats a little, so I have many open jars with a little bit gone and no idea how much she has eaten. I would guess maybe one jar full. Normally by this time of night she has been eating 2 or 2.5 jars full. But at least she is eating something. I syringed her a little food as well with herb tinctures I just got from Robert MacDowell in Australia, and she did not seem to mind so much, so maybe I should syringe her more, I don't know. I hate to bother her so much. she is very purry again, though. I really love her. thanks for asking, Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 8:06:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can always gradually taper off. What does your vet say? How is Lucy doing this evening? elizabeth
Re: Lucy--what to do? - pentoxifylline?
Thank you. I have heard of it, and have read up on it. It seems to help sometimes with FIP. However, it's a blood thinner, and she is really anemic right now, so I would be afraid to try it. Also, I think all the meds I have given her have made her not want to eat much, so I don't think I want to start new ones on top. thanks for looking up things for us though, Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 10:02:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been praying for Lucy and visualizing her healthy. I've also been looking over various bits of FIP info on the web. I've come across references to pentoxifylline (Trental made by Aventis Pharmaceuticals). I was unable to find a reference to Trental in recent digests, so I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about it. If you're interested, Google pentoxifylline FIP. Lance
Re: Lucy update
I don't know the answer to that. I have had cats die from dry FIP but not wet. The conversation I had with my vet about the wet version was when I was at his clinic in the back - he was working off and on on some of our rescue group's cats and a kitty was brought back to have fluid drawn from her abdomen -- it was that awful straw color that gives you the diagnosis you never want to hear - I will never forget that color. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:yes, you are probably right. It is possible to keep draining it, but how many times do you do that? as long as they are still eating? I don't know. But you probably are right. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:27:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I understand it, with wet FIP unless fluid is continually drained it will begin to accumulate in the abdominal cavity and begin to squeeze out the lungs so that breathing becomes harder and harder -- and the cat essentially suffocates. I think that is why all wet FIP kitties are euthanized. I may be wrong but I think that is how my vet described it. Keeping you and Lucy in my prayers. She has such a lot of spirit.
Re: Lucy update
None of the websites say... even Dr. Addie's says all FIP cats are euthanized. I suppose it will get to a point where she will be suffering so bad you'll have to euthanise her? It appears that is the case with every other FIP+ cat in existence. Surely there have been research cats that they have just let die to KNOW what the end result of FIP is... but I can't find any reference. I mean, how do they KNOW it's 100% fatal, as all the websites state, if ALL the cats that have it are euthanised? That's a REALLY good question Michelle! Hideyo, can you contact Dr. Addie and that other Japanese vet (who's name I forget now - Ishida maybe?) and ask them? I don't see any contact info on Dr. Addie's website, but I know you've spoken to her. Ask, if the cat is NOT euthanised, WHAT is the cause of death, and what could we expect to see happen in the end stages? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Lucy update
i know a lot of FIP cats, with the wet form, that have been allowed to die naturally at home, so i guess i'm missing the point here On 1/30/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: None of the websites say... even Dr. Addie's says all FIP cats are euthanized. I suppose it will get to a point where she will be suffering so bad you'll have to euthanise her? It appears that is the case with every other FIP+ cat in existence. Surely there have been research cats that they have just let die to KNOW what the end result of FIP is... but I can't find any reference. I mean, how do they KNOW it's 100% fatal, as all the websites state, if ALL the cats that have it are euthanised? That's a REALLY good question Michelle! Hideyo, can you contact Dr. Addie and that other Japanese vet (who's name I forget now - Ishida maybe?) and ask them? I don't see any contact info on Dr. Addie's website, but I know you've spoken to her. Ask, if the cat is NOT euthanised, WHAT is the cause of death, and what could we expect to see happen in the end stages? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Lucy update
As I understand it, with wet FIP unless fluid is continually drained it will begin to accumulate in the abdominal cavity and begin to squeeze out the lungs so that breathing becomes harder and harder -- and the cat essentially suffocates. I think that is why all wet FIP kitties are euthanized. I may be wrong but I think that is how my vet described it. Keeping you and Lucy in my prayers. She has such a lot of spirit. TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i know a lot of FIP cats, with the wet form, that have been allowed to die naturally at home, so i guess i'm missing the point here On 1/30/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: None of the websites say... even Dr. Addie's says all FIP cats are euthanized. I suppose it will get to a point where she will be suffering so bad you'll have to euthanise her? It appears that is the case with every other FIP+ cat in existence. Surely there have been research cats that they have just let die to KNOW what the end result of FIP is... but I can't find any reference. I mean, how do they KNOW it's 100% fatal, as all the websites state, if ALL the cats that have it are euthanised? That's a REALLY good question Michelle! Hideyo, can you contact Dr. Addie and that other Japanese vet (who's name I forget now - Ishida maybe?) and ask them? I don't see any contact info on Dr. Addie's website, but I know you've spoken to her. Ask, if the cat is NOT euthanised, WHAT is the cause of death, and what could we expect to see happen in the end stages? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Lucy update
With dry fip, it is organ failure and/or anemia. My Buddy died naturally from what probably was dry fip. His pcv was 6 the last time it was measured, a couple of days before. The vet said he should not have been able to stand. But he was on the dex/depo combo shots, and he was literally trotting around the house. I want to put Lucy on those shots. Wet fip is different, though, and does not usually affect organs in the same way. Cats stop eating at some point, and that will kill them if they are not force-fed. So maybe that is what happens, or anemia. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:07:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of the websites say... even Dr. Addie's says all FIP cats are euthanized. I suppose it will get to a point where she will be suffering so bad you'll have to euthanise her? It appears that is the case with every other FIP+ cat in existence. Surely there have been research cats that they have just let die to KNOW what the end result of FIP is... but I can't find any reference. I mean, how do they KNOW it's 100% fatal, as all the websites state, if ALL the cats that have it are euthanised? That's a REALLY good question Michelle! Hideyo, can you contact Dr. Addie and that other Japanese vet (who's name I forget now - Ishida maybe?) and ask them? I don't see any contact info on Dr. Addie's website, but I know you've spoken to her. Ask, if the cat is NOT euthanised, WHAT is the cause of death, and what could we expect to see happen in the end stages? Phaewryn
Re: Lucy update
yes, you are probably right. It is possible to keep draining it, but how many times do you do that? as long as they are still eating? I don't know. But you probably are right. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:27:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I understand it, with wet FIP unless fluid is continually drained it will begin to accumulate in the abdominal cavity and begin to squeeze out the lungs so that breathing becomes harder and harder -- and the cat essentially suffocates. I think that is why all wet FIP kitties are euthanized. I may be wrong but I think that is how my vet described it. Keeping you and Lucy in my prayers. She has such a lot of spirit.
Re: Lucy update
Do you know what actually killed them in the end? was it not eating, or breathing difficulty, or anemia, or something else? I am just trying to prepare myself. thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:16:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i know a lot of FIP cats, with the wet form, that have been allowed to die naturally at home, so i guess i'm missing the point here
RE: Lucy update
Actually, with all of my 6 kitties who died of FIP, they all passed away naturally except one, Olive who developed severe neurological symptoms and had seizures every 15 mins.. Peter died from the liver problem and died very quickly... Naomi died very peacefully.. Rikki died from ARF, Dharma died from anemia/liver, Lizzie died from liver/neurological problems.. whenever neurological problem shows, you know that it's towards the end stage - It's known to be.. usually with FIP cats, they don't have severe anemia but mild.. and organ failures and seizures seem to be more common cause of death.. but for some reason, lately more cats with FIP develop more severe anemia.. which seems to be consistent throughout for some reason. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:39 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy update With dry fip, it is organ failure and/or anemia. My Buddy died naturally from what probably was dry fip. His pcv was 6 the last time it was measured, a couple of days before. The vet said he should not have been able to stand. But he was on the dex/depo combo shots, and he was literally trotting around the house. I want to put Lucy on those shots. Wet fip is different, though, and does not usually affect organs in the same way. Cats stop eating at some point, and that will kill them if they are not force-fed. So maybe that is what happens, or anemia. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:07:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of the websites say... even Dr. Addie's says all FIP cats are euthanized. I suppose it will get to a point where she will be suffering so bad you'll have to euthanise her? It appears that is the case with every other FIP+ cat in existence. Surely there have been research cats that they have just let die to KNOW what the end result of FIP is... but I can't find any reference. I mean, how do they KNOW it's 100% fatal, as all the websites state, if ALL the cats that have it are euthanised? That's a REALLY good question Michelle! Hideyo, can you contact Dr. Addie and that other Japanese vet (who's name I forget now - Ishida maybe?) and ask them? I don't see any contact info on Dr. Addie's website, but I know you've spoken to her. Ask, if the cat is NOT euthanised, WHAT is the cause of death, and what could we expect to see happen in the end stages? Phaewryn
Re: Lucy update
Hideyo, all of yours had dry fip, though, right? Or did one have wet fip? In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:51:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, with all of my 6 kitties who died of FIP, they all passed away naturally except one, Olive who developed severe neurological symptoms and had seizures every 15 mins.. Peter died from the liver problem and died very quickly… Naomi died very peacefully.. Rikki died from ARF, Dharma died from anemia/liver, Lizzie died from liver/neurological problems.. whenever neurological problem shows, you know that it’s towards the end stage – It’s known to be.. usually with FIP cats, they don’t have severe anemia but mild.. and organ failures and seizures seem to be more common cause of death.. but for some reason, lately more cats with FIP develop more severe anemia.. which seems to be consistent throughout for some reason.
RE: Lucy update
Michelle - I am crying as I read this email as I know how much you want Lucy to get better and so do I ---I wish I had this power to cure all the sick babies in the world to make a miracle happen.. Michelle - don't think about euthanizing her right now.. she is eating.. and she does not seem to be in pain.. who knows she may beat this thing even if it's FIP - sometimes, according to dr. ishida's paper, it takes 2 to 4 weeks to fluid to be gone completely and recover from FIP.. again the challenge is the anemia status - I think that is the biggest challenge her - you could give her transfusions to buy time until epogen starts working.. Just continue to fight with her.. she is fighting with you - if for some reason, if she does not want to anymore.. you will know.. just love her like there is no tomorrow.. hold her and kiss her and enjoy every minute and every second.. she is your baby,, and she will always be your baby and no one can take that away from you... Hideyo _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Lucy update Well, Lucy screamed while they were feeling around her belly trying to find the place to put the needle in, but while they drained she just laid in my arms and purred. The fluid, which I was told was clear and thin on January 16 and 17 when samples were taken, looked pale yellow to me and the vet said the consistency was a bit thick. He sent some more out to be analyzed, but he feels quite sure it is fip. He filled a small bowl 2 or 3 times with fluid-- I would guess at least 100 or 200 cc's. And when the fluid stopped coming, he said he had reached the end of that pocket, but she still has a huge belly. He said he did not want to keep poking her all over trying to find the pockets to drain it from, and wants me to just see how she does with that much drained. He did not think her breathing was bad to begin with. He put the 1/2 cc dexamethasone shot into the catheter when it stopped draining. He said her belly may fill up faster now, since proteins were taken out of circulation by draining from the abdomen and lower proteins enable more effusion. I guess that is why some people have said it filled up faster after being drained. He was amazed that she is still eating. I think it must just be all the pred. I asked for leukeran. He wants to wait a couple of days and see what the new fluid analysis says and how she does on the increased pred and the dex that she got in her belly today. He is worried the leukeran might suppress her bone marrow more. He really does not think the fluid is from ibd or lymphoma, as he said he has never seen either create anywhere near this amount of fluid. She was happy to get home and walked around a little, though she looked a little wobbly. At one point she actually ran for about 20 feet or so, and her poor jelly belly swung from side to side as she did. Now she is camped out on the heating pad by her new favorite spot, a bookshelf where she heard a mouse this morning. She has been purring a lot more today, I think because I gave her more pred this morning and maybe she has had some fever and that took it away, I don't know. I so don't want to lose her, but know what Hideyo said is right. I asked the vet about coming to the home for euthanasia at some point and he said he will if he can schedule-wise. I asked him what will get her, as I have never had a cat with wet fip before. He did not know, as most people euthanize at diagnosis of wet fip he said. Does anyone know? Is it likely to be her anemia? Or will something else happen? He said she will probably stop eating at some point, despite the steroids. I do not think I will want to force-feed her, unless she seems to be otherwise feeling good. Right now she is falling asleep. She is my baby. Michelle
RE: Lucy update
One FIP I had was Henry - -about 4 years ago and he was only 6 months old.. he died very peacefully, he stopped breathing in his sleep almost... I think that the cause was liver.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy update Hideyo, all of yours had dry fip, though, right? Or did one have wet fip? In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:51:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, with all of my 6 kitties who died of FIP, they all passed away naturally except one, Olive who developed severe neurological symptoms and had seizures every 15 mins.. Peter died from the liver problem and died very quickly... Naomi died very peacefully.. Rikki died from ARF, Dharma died from anemia/liver, Lizzie died from liver/neurological problems.. whenever neurological problem shows, you know that it's towards the end stage - It's known to be.. usually with FIP cats, they don't have severe anemia but mild.. and organ failures and seizures seem to be more common cause of death.. but for some reason, lately more cats with FIP develop more severe anemia.. which seems to be consistent throughout for some reason.
RE: Lucy update
Sally Forrester who used to be on this list lost many kitties to wet FIP - do you want to contact her? I also have another friend, karen whom I met on FIP list lost many cats to wet and dry - let me know if you want to contact her.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy update Hideyo, all of yours had dry fip, though, right? Or did one have wet fip? In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:51:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, with all of my 6 kitties who died of FIP, they all passed away naturally except one, Olive who developed severe neurological symptoms and had seizures every 15 mins.. Peter died from the liver problem and died very quickly... Naomi died very peacefully.. Rikki died from ARF, Dharma died from anemia/liver, Lizzie died from liver/neurological problems.. whenever neurological problem shows, you know that it's towards the end stage - It's known to be.. usually with FIP cats, they don't have severe anemia but mild.. and organ failures and seizures seem to be more common cause of death.. but for some reason, lately more cats with FIP develop more severe anemia.. which seems to be consistent throughout for some reason.
Re: Lucy update
Hideyo, I am not going to do anything to her right now. I hardly ever euthanize at all, much less while someone is eating. Most of my animals have died at home on their own. I just do not want her to suffer too much in the end, which is why I asked the vet. I think my cat Buddy went through too much at the end. Hope is getting slimmer, and I don't want to put her through transfusions. I know they are not a big deal in themselves, but we would have to do them at an ER very far away, and she gets so very stressed out, and the process takes a good 4-5 hours between typing, thawing the blood, doing the transfusion, and making sure there is no reaction. Add in the driving and we are talking about 6-7hours. She has enough trouble going to the vet that is 10 minutes away. While she was ok for the draining, she was screaming at the top of her lungs before he started. I thought she was at transfusion level on Saturday and her pcv was 15. I think she is worse now, but maybe, like on Saturday, I am completely wrong about that. I hope so. I will continue to give her the feline interferon. Were Dr. Ishida's patients very sick already when he started treating them? My shipment still has not come in. I have enough from the vial you sent me to get me through Thursday. Hopefully it will come before then. If it doesn't come by Thursday, would you send me another vial? (her dose would be due on Friday). if she is still here, which I hope and pray and believe she will be. Thanks, Hideyo, for everything, Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 5:02:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle – I am crying as I read this email as I know how much you want Lucy to get better and so do I ---I wish I had this power to cure all the sick babies in the world to make a miracle happen.. Michelle – don’t think about euthanizing her right now.. she is eating.. and she does not seem to be in pain.. who knows she may beat this thing even if it’s FIP – sometimes, according to dr. ishida’s paper, it takes 2 to 4 weeks to fluid to be gone completely and recover from FIP.. again the challenge is the anemia status – I think that is the biggest challenge her – you could give her transfusions to buy time until epogen starts working.. Just continue to fight with her.. she is fighting with you – if for some reason, if she does not want to anymore.. you will know.. just love her like there is no tomorrow.. hold her and kiss her and enjoy every minute and every second.. she is your baby,, and she will always be your baby and no one can take that away from you… Hideyo
RE: Lucy update
Yes, I will send you another vial if you need me to, you just let me know, Michelle - In addition to Mr. Ishida's studies, I also read about one case study of Pancho (?) who had FIP and FIV - and he was in a very bad shape, and he recovered completely for about 1.5 year with interferon and due to the financial issue, they were giving human interferon and Pancho must have developed antibody when he developed FIP again 1.5 year later.. and due to financial reason, they couldn't treat him anymore- Most of his cases were FIP cats.. due to fluid, some had a difficult time breathing.. sounded like in a pretty bad shape,, but none of them were that anemic when they were brought in ---let me find the study and will email you off line.. I just forwarded an email from sally to you so that you can read what happened to her babies.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:09 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy update Hideyo, I am not going to do anything to her right now. I hardly ever euthanize at all, much less while someone is eating. Most of my animals have died at home on their own. I just do not want her to suffer too much in the end, which is why I asked the vet. I think my cat Buddy went through too much at the end. Hope is getting slimmer, and I don't want to put her through transfusions. I know they are not a big deal in themselves, but we would have to do them at an ER very far away, and she gets so very stressed out, and the process takes a good 4-5 hours between typing, thawing the blood, doing the transfusion, and making sure there is no reaction. Add in the driving and we are talking about 6-7hours. She has enough trouble going to the vet that is 10 minutes away. While she was ok for the draining, she was screaming at the top of her lungs before he started. I thought she was at transfusion level on Saturday and her pcv was 15. I think she is worse now, but maybe, like on Saturday, I am completely wrong about that. I hope so. I will continue to give her the feline interferon. Were Dr. Ishida's patients very sick already when he started treating them? My shipment still has not come in. I have enough from the vial you sent me to get me through Thursday. Hopefully it will come before then. If it doesn't come by Thursday, would you send me another vial? (her dose would be due on Friday). if she is still here, which I hope and pray and believe she will be. Thanks, Hideyo, for everything, Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 5:02:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle - I am crying as I read this email as I know how much you want Lucy to get better and so do I ---I wish I had this power to cure all the sick babies in the world to make a miracle happen.. Michelle - don't think about euthanizing her right now.. she is eating.. and she does not seem to be in pain.. who knows she may beat this thing even if it's FIP - sometimes, according to dr. ishida's paper, it takes 2 to 4 weeks to fluid to be gone completely and recover from FIP.. again the challenge is the anemia status - I think that is the biggest challenge her - you could give her transfusions to buy time until epogen starts working.. Just continue to fight with her.. she is fighting with you - if for some reason, if she does not want to anymore.. you will know.. just love her like there is no tomorrow.. hold her and kiss her and enjoy every minute and every second.. she is your baby,, and she will always be your baby and no one can take that away from you... Hideyo
Re: Lucy visualization
Oh Leslie thank you! (I gotta tell you lady, I'm crazy about you). Your post encouraging Michelle to visualize Lucy happy and healthy was just perfect. Michelle, you haven't responded to any of this, I don't know if you're too wrapped up in the fear, the research, (the dirt and rock touching stuff), or just think those of us encouraging you to try are, while well meaning, are too far out on a limb to be taken seriously. I think I identified with this, (what?)... this philosophy, detailed in The Secret because I've personally had experience with it working, (like Leslie with the miraculous recovery of Bea and Satch). No one is saying that you don't have to help the things you want along, you are not taken out of the equation, but you have to SEE and THINK and VISUALIZE the things you want as if they are already here, already happening. Lighten your heart as you look for answers. Envision those answers coming to you, and stop worrying about the HOW of it all. Your last couple of posts have you concentrating and visualizing the very thing you want the least. Please, please, please, try and stop yourself from doing that. How can it hurt? Even if it is Lucy's time, you will have saved yourself so much anguish. Leslie, you ask Hideyo and me to help you out about 'when God says no', :-) (sorry Phaewryn, I use the word as a universal, please translate it to what makes sense to you). I read that and at first blush had no idea how I might respond, but then as I think on it... Because all things have their season; all things that exist must transition; all that lives must die, (and perhaps be born again in one form or another, but that's another discussion), perhaps when we ask for things like prolonging the life of someone ready, (at their soul's level) to cross, it is not in our power to change the outcome because it is that very soul that is sending out the desire to do so and the backing of the Universe is behind that outcome because it is the right time. I can't tell you how many times, something horrible, something that seems so wrong has happened, and yet given enough time and distance from my suffering, I can see the good that came of it. Susan's little lost Jackie springs to mind. Well, that's my take a stab at it from the seat of my pants answer. Ask me again tomorrow. Leslie, you want to be a Quantum Physicist, and it appears I long to be a philosopher. Can we get anymore OT? Nina Leslie wrote: Hello Michelle, So I just checked out some of The Secret movie. I have to say that I am not very New Age. I like dirt and rocks and things that my hands can touch and pick up. I am going to school again getting my science classes - chemistry, biology, physics, etc. - dirt and rocks stuff, and I am constantly amazed at how little we know about all that we know. We know some stuff about the bits that fill the space around us, but the space itself, of which there is far more of than the bits - a mystery. I just watched What the Bleep Do We Know this weekend and I was very impressed. It reminds me of the The Secret and I would encourage those of you who haven't seen it, to watch it. I want to be a Quantum Physicist now so badly. :) Anyway, this stuff is not New Age, it's just beautifully simple - like e=mc squared. For the speed of light to be packaged in five human symbols is amazing in it's complexity and simplicity. This is all to say, it these videos make sense and are very hopeful. So, I'm new to this visualization stuff, but with all of your help, I visualized constantly the thread connecting me with Satchmo and Beatrix when they were lost (as did you all - and still, thank you!) and less than 48 hours later they were back with me. So Michelle, please, please don't think about how empty your house will be without Lucy, because what you are visualizing is an empty house full of despair. And what you are sending out is that image. Sit next to Lucy and close your eyes and feel her, listen to her breathe, and see her all over the house for years to come. Look at your hand on her back, the way her fur looks under it, feels under it, and see a sunny summer day when you are petting her asleep in a sunspot. And see next Christmas when she's all cracked out on catnip. See a house full of her and hope in many situations to come. Be filled with the joy of it. Like I said, I'm new to this, so I don't know how death fits in, how we handle it when the universe ignores our visualization. Nina and Hideyo help us there. But whatever you do, please don't see the house empty. That bridge isn't here yet, so keep your eyes on the space in front of you and what you'd like it to look like. I am so New Age, I love it. What have you guys done to me? Hideyo has me singing songs about her cats, Michelle has me filling her house with cat breathe. :) Leslie
RE: Lucy visualization
If you guys remember, when Belinda on the list lost Bailey-she sent us a photo of the sky with the cloud, just mimicking Bailey's face - now that's a connection that goes beyond what we can explain.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy visualization where does death fit into it all? think about the conservation of energy: love doesn't die, it just changes form. so our little furry ones never leave us, they just inhabit a different type of space--i think many of us on this list can tell you about seeing ridge cats in our homes out of the corner of our eye. whenever i move, i always spend my final moments in the house talking with the cats that have left this plane from that physical space, and inviting them to come join us in the new one. banesh hoffman wrote a wonderful book called, the strange story of the quantum, in everyday language for the non-scientist, that traces scientific history in terms of all the things we once knew for sure in light of what we now know. i'm sure this isn't an exact quote, but it's close enough: First there was the electromagnetic ether, then there was the luminescent ether, and now there is nether. On 1/30/07, Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Michelle, So I just checked out some of The Secret movie. I have to say that I am not very New Age. I like dirt and rocks and things that my hands can touch and pick up. I am going to school again getting my science classes - chemistry, biology, physics, etc. - dirt and rocks stuff, and I am constantly amazed at how little we know about all that we know. We know some stuff about the bits that fill the space around us, but the space itself, of which there is far more of than the bits - a mystery. I just watched What the Bleep Do We Know this weekend and I was very impressed. It reminds me of the The Secret and I would encourage those of you who haven't seen it, to watch it. I want to be a Quantum Physicist now so badly. :) Anyway, this stuff is not New Age, it's just beautifully simple - like e=mc squared. For the speed of light to be packaged in five human symbols is amazing in it's complexity and simplicity. This is all to say, it these videos make sense and are very hopeful. So, I'm new to this visualization stuff, but with all of your help, I visualized constantly the thread connecting me with Satchmo and Beatrix when they were lost (as did you all - and still, thank you!) and less than 48 hours later they were back with me. So Michelle, please, please don't think about how empty your house will be without Lucy, because what you are visualizing is an empty house full of despair. And what you are sending out is that image. Sit next to Lucy and close your eyes and feel her, listen to her breathe, and see her all over the house for years to come. Look at your hand on her back, the way her fur looks under it, feels under it, and see a sunny summer day when you are petting her asleep in a sunspot. And see next Christmas when she's all cracked out on catnip. See a house full of her and hope in many situations to come. Be filled with the joy of it. Like I said, I'm new to this, so I don't know how death fits in, how we handle it when the universe ignores our visualization. Nina and Hideyo help us there. But whatever you do, please don't see the house empty. That bridge isn't here yet, so keep your eyes on the space in front of you and what you'd like it to look like. I am so New Age, I love it. What have you guys done to me? Hideyo has me singing songs about her cats, Michelle has me filling her house with cat breathe. :) Leslie -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
RE: Lucy update
There was not a single cat whom I lost to FIP that I did not have to syringe feed them towards the end as anorexia is a common symptoms of FIP - most of my cats stopped eating though they may not act that ill.. they don't feel well due to the liver damage and feel nauseated so they don't want to eat.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:41 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy update Do you know what actually killed them in the end? was it not eating, or breathing difficulty, or anemia, or something else? I am just trying to prepare myself. thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:16:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i know a lot of FIP cats, with the wet form, that have been allowed to die naturally at home, so i guess i'm missing the point here
Re: Lucy visualization
Yes and whenever I would show that photo to anyone while Bailey was still here, I would tell them thats the face of an angel! I know he picked that way and that photo to let me know he was OK because it is one of my favorites and I couldn't miss it as a sign. http://bemikitties.com/BeachPhotoBailey.jpg If you guys remember, when Belinda on the list lost Bailey-she sent us a photo of the sky with the cloud, just mimicking Bailey's face - now that's a connection that goes beyond what we can explain -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Lucy update
My tsubomi had fliud in her belly when we took extray and she was felk positive and did not have FIP - I am uncomfortable them telling you that it's FIP because of fluid - will Felk virus not cause fluid in her tummy like it did for tsubomi - may be epogen might be working for her, Michelle. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:13 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Lucy update Well, I took Lucy to the local vet for a PCV check today because she has been so lethargic that I was sure it was under 10 and I would need to decide on a transfusion over the weekend. But it was 15! I was very glad about that. She is still super-lethargic, though, although she has more energy since just getting back from the vet due to all the adrenaline. The bad things are she had a fever (104.1), and I had thought her fevers had stopped with the clindamycin, which was one of the things that was giving me hope this is toxo rather than fip. The other bad thing is that she has so much fluid in her belly that she has gained almost a pound in the last few weeks. Although she is eating, it is almost definite that the full pound is fluid. The local vet thinks it very unlikely that toxo would cause this much fluid, and feels pretty sure this is wet fip. Michelle
Re: Lucy update
It's not that she has fluid, it's the amount. At this point it is extremely visible to the naked eye-- it looks like she swallowed a small basketball. It is the way fip bellies look. All i have read about fluid with toxo says that sometimes some can be detected by x-ray.. Nowhere did it say they can get huge bellies like with fip. I am not saying i am ruling it out-- she is still on abx and I am hoping against hope it is toxo and she will kick it. It just seems unlikely. They weighed her and she has gained about a pound in fluid-- that is over 10% of her body weight in fluid in her belly. That is a huge amount. I weight about 120 pounds-- the equivalent with my weight would be if I were carrying about 15 pounds of fluid in my belly. Can you imagine? That's a lot. He said it could be why she is not walking around all that much now. Michelle In a message dated 1/27/2007 11:36:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My tsubomi had fliud in her belly when we took extray and she was felk positive and did not have FIP – I am uncomfortable them telling you that it’s FIP because of fluid – will Felk virus not cause fluid in her tummy like it did for tsubomi – may be epogen might be working for her, Michelle.
RE: Lucy update
My Garfunkle did get a huge belly from his liver problem - He could barely walk because of it - he was very uncomfortable - like he had 10 kittens in his tummy look - Did a vet suggest for lasix for something to get rid of fluid - though I always get nervous about potential kidney damage by using lasix.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:26 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy update It's not that she has fluid, it's the amount. At this point it is extremely visible to the naked eye-- it looks like she swallowed a small basketball. It is the way fip bellies look. All i have read about fluid with toxo says that sometimes some can be detected by x-ray.. Nowhere did it say they can get huge bellies like with fip. I am not saying i am ruling it out-- she is still on abx and I am hoping against hope it is toxo and she will kick it. It just seems unlikely. They weighed her and she has gained about a pound in fluid-- that is over 10% of her body weight in fluid in her belly. That is a huge amount. I weight about 120 pounds-- the equivalent with my weight would be if I were carrying about 15 pounds of fluid in my belly. Can you imagine? That's a lot. He said it could be why she is not walking around all that much now. Michelle In a message dated 1/27/2007 11:36:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My tsubomi had fliud in her belly when we took extray and she was felk positive and did not have FIP - I am uncomfortable them telling you that it's FIP because of fluid - will Felk virus not cause fluid in her tummy like it did for tsubomi - may be epogen might be working for her, Michelle.
Re: Lucy update
Yes, they said they will give her lasix if/when the fluid makes her uncomfortable. I think she is breathing a little funny, but the vet did not think so much. The problem with lasix is that it leaches nutrients she needs and also risks damage to the kidneys. At some point she will probably need it. I can hear her exhaling, like she is having to push a little to exhale. The vet did not seem to think it was bad though. I think it is worse when she is in certain conditions. In a message dated 1/27/2007 2:17:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My Garfunkle did get a huge belly from his liver problem – He could barely walk because of it – he was very uncomfortable – like he had 10 kittens in his tummy look – Did a vet suggest for lasix for something to get rid of fluid – though I always get nervous about potential kidney damage by using lasix..
Re: Lucy update
Hi Michelle, I am catching up on all your emails regarding sweet Lucy, and I am sorry that the internist thinks it is FIP. I don't know much about wet FIP, thus I don't know how serious it is. Considering her current health, I'm betting FIP is pretty serious. I hope you are able to find a way to stabilize her, and get her PVC and weight back up. I'm glad to hear her PVC was better than you thought. Prayers going out for Lucy and for you. :) Wendy --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I took Lucy to the local vet for a PCV check today because she has been so lethargic that I was sure it was under 10 and I would need to decide on a transfusion over the weekend. But it was 15! I was very glad about that. She is still super-lethargic, though, although she has more energy since just getting back from the vet due to all the adrenaline. The bad things are she had a fever (104.1), and I had thought her fevers had stopped with the clindamycin, which was one of the things that was giving me hope this is toxo rather than fip. The other bad thing is that she has so much fluid in her belly that she has gained almost a pound in the last few weeks. Although she is eating, it is almost definite that the full pound is fluid. The local vet thinks it very unlikely that toxo would cause this much fluid, and feels pretty sure this is wet fip. Michelle Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
you're up against the old medical model, which holds true in veterinary as well as in human medicine: diagnosis/treat/cure. if you can't do those things in one swell foop, blame the patient! On 1/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Renee, I think the main difference between the way Dr. Clifford treats you with Emily and the way he's treating Michelle with Lucy is that Emily's breast cancer is considered more treatable, where they are not giving Michelle any hope, and are more or less annoyed that she hasn't given up yet with something they see as terminal. At least that's what I'm pulling from what's been posted here. Almost like they are saying well, she's old and she's got FIP, there's nothing we can do, but yet they don't seem to be AWARE of the studies that prove Feline Interferon Omega's effectiveness on FIP! Michelle, if I were you, I would be slamming copies of studies down on some desks around that place and making some heads roll if they treated me so disrespectfully! It might not hurt to REMIND them that you are PAYING them for their service, and even if your cat is hopeless in their eyes, you DESERVE to get your money's worth of consultation! Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
O yea... medical model. Actually, I think I'd be looking into Acemann or ImmunoRegulin or sometime like that... Best of luck, Gloria On Jan 21, 2007, at 8:05 AM, TenHouseCats wrote: you're up against the old medical model, which holds true in veterinary as well as in human medicine: diagnosis/treat/cure. if you can't do those things in one swell foop, blame the patient! On 1/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Renee, I think the main difference between the way Dr. Clifford treats you with Emily and the way he's treating Michelle with Lucy is that Emily's breast cancer is considered more treatable, where they are not giving Michelle any hope, and are more or less annoyed that she hasn't given up yet with something they see as terminal. At least that's what I'm pulling from what's been posted here. Almost like they are saying well, she's old and she's got FIP, there's nothing we can do, but yet they don't seem to be AWARE of the studies that prove Feline Interferon Omega's effectiveness on FIP! Michelle, if I were you, I would be slamming copies of studies down on some desks around that place and making some heads roll if they treated me so disrespectfully! It might not hurt to REMIND them that you are PAYING them for their service, and even if your cat is hopeless in their eyes, you DESERVE to get your money's worth of consultation! Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Michelle, do you think your vet would be more apt to be positive and helpful (rather than loathe and reluctantly obligatory) if you printed out the studies on the feline interferon Omega that SHOW it's benefit for FIP, FIV, URL, and Stomatitis? I have several you could print and show him, if he's just NOT aware of the studies. Maybe if he sees it now... even if he has to study it himself... it would make him a better vet in the future? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Lucy-- what to do?
Poor Kerry, You really can't control what the vet's office did or didn't do. I know it's terrible, but does reliving it again and again do anything positive? No. Beating yourself up and reliving regrets can kill you. Please try to remember, YOU did everything YOU could do, and some things were out of your hands. Though they should have been IN the hands of capable people, sometimes bad things happen and mistakes are made, and you HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING. Please try to remember all the good times with Bandy, and don't relive the bad times. His memory should be one of love and happiness, not something that brings you nightmares. Try to focus on his life, and the joy he brought to you. If he were here, I'm sure he would much rather his memory bring you happiness than regrets! I think you may need to confront the kennel person and sit down and discuss what did happen, because I don't think you will be able to let go and heal until you can confront the pain and the root of your fears and regrets about his care while there. Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Renee, I think the main difference between the way Dr. Clifford treats you with Emily and the way he's treating Michelle with Lucy is that Emily's breast cancer is considered more treatable, where they are not giving Michelle any hope, and are more or less annoyed that she hasn't given up yet with something they see as terminal. At least that's what I'm pulling from what's been posted here. Almost like they are saying well, she's old and she's got FIP, there's nothing we can do, but yet they don't seem to be AWARE of the studies that prove Feline Interferon Omega's effectiveness on FIP! Michelle, if I were you, I would be slamming copies of studies down on some desks around that place and making some heads roll if they treated me so disrespectfully! It might not hurt to REMIND them that you are PAYING them for their service, and even if your cat is hopeless in their eyes, you DESERVE to get your money's worth of consultation! Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Renee is who I inherited my colony of feral cats from, some of which are FIV+. Just FYI. Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Red Bank called to say that now I do not have a return appointment for tomorrow, that the cytology reports won't be back until tomorrow, and that I will get a call tomorrow morning after the oncologist and internist look at the reports, with a plan. Meanwhile, this morning Lucy is not eating at all. I syringed her a little food, but am concerned at the worsening of symptoms. Her back end seems ok now, but she is drinking more. her fever went down last night with fluids and ice packs, but she is warm again-- but can't tell if this is because she is lying in the sun (her choice). She can walk to litter box and jump up on 1 foot tall cardboard box without problems. Her pads and gums are still a little pink, though light pink. Thanks to Hideyo, I now have feline interferon and epogen. The oncologist is insisting that I not start her on anything until they look at all the test results. If she has an infection or heart disease, steroids could be harmful. If her blood cells are regenerating but then dying, epogen won't help and she could have a reaction. I have not heard back on any particular reason not to start the feline interferon. Do you think I should start her on something, against the advice of the oncologist and internist? I generally trust specialists, but it seems clear she is going down hill and days are passing. Plus, a friend's dog had neurological problems and saw specialists at a big hospital in Boston for a week before they tested for lyme disease (which I had suggested immediately)-- they had had him on steroids, then when finally saw he had lyme put him on heavy doses of antibiotics and stopped the steroids, and when he got worse they put him back on heavy doses of both and he pulled through. Obviously it would have been better if a) they had tested him immediately (they had not thought the neuro symptoms matched lyme) and b) absent the test if they had just loaded him up with both abx and steroids. So I am wary of specialists waiting for test results that take a while before starting treatment when an animal is going downhill. At the same time, I don't want to harm any possible treatment she could ultimately get if they figure something out. Do any of you have strong opinions or thoughts on this? Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy--what to do?
How soon did the cat feel better from epogen? In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
He seemed to perk up within 24 hours. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:How soon did the cat feel better from epogen? In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy.
RE: Lucy--what to do?
I have used epogen on 5 cats so far, but I did not see any immediate response - for anemia case, it takes up to one to three weeks to take an effect - and the main think you need to watch is to keep an eye on BP as it will increase BP and cat can become blind due to high BP, and could cause seizures - the both of these things happened to my baby Hannibal whom I was treating his anemia due to CRF - but when anemia happens due to CRF, you really don't have much choice but to use epogen as otherwise you would lose a cat from anemia.. my Ayumi is on epogen.. it does not make her feel better directly, but her PCV is slowly going up because of it. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:18 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? He seemed to perk up within 24 hours. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How soon did the cat feel better from epogen? In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy.
RE: Lucy--what to do?
Hideyo - you are way more knowledgeable about epogen than I am -- I thought my
Valley perked up within a day of having it; I guess that isn't physiologically
possible -- do you think I just imagined it?
Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
I have used epogen on 5 cats so far, but I did not see any immediate
response for anemia case, it takes up to one to three weeks to take an effect
and the main think you need to watch is to keep an eye on BP as it will
increase BP and cat can become blind due to high BP, and could cause seizures
the both of these things happened to my baby Hannibal whom I was treating his
anemia due to CRF but when anemia happens due to CRF, you really dont have
much choice but to use epogen as otherwise you would lose a cat from anemia..
my Ayumi is on epogen.. it does not make her feel better directly, but her PCV
is slowly going up because of it.
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:18 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do?
He seemed to perk up within 24 hours.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How soon did the cat feel better from epogen?
In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED] writes:
Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no
reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the
kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has
seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really
experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Dearest Michelle, As I wrote before, I just went through this same push/pull anxiety with Spencer. It's enough to give you a nervous breakdown. I'm feeling your pain right through the computer. I know Lucy is in bad shape, but it does sound like she's at least comfortable for the most part. When you talk about worsening symptoms, are you referring to her not eating? Today is the first time she hasn't eaten on her own, is that right? Stress will put her off her food, perhaps she's just regaining her strength. The thought of her enjoying a sun bath is encouraging. She may be strong enough to wait for the experts to decide a treatment protocol. I wish I had the answers for you Michelle. I'm afraid that no matter how much support we have from others, it always comes down to our call when dealing with so this sort of quandary. All I can tell you is that after I calmed my spirit and communed with Spencer, (my last experience with what you are going through), I felt a little more at peace with the circumstances. Unfortunately, Spencer did not have a long time left to share with me. I never gave up hope, but I did find a semblance of acceptance and peace. The benefit was that the time we did share was full of unconditional love, and I don't know how else to put it, full of quality. It didn't keep him with me in the physical, but it allowed us to bond in an extraordinary way. It was an incredible gift that we shared, at a very costly price. I'll always be grateful to him for the lessons learned during that heartrending time. I have no idea what I would do in your place. Missing the pieces of the puzzle make it so very difficult to make these sorts of decisions with conviction. I would never take the advice of anyone over what my own gut was telling me though. The specialists may be well meaning, they may even be sympathetic, but to them Lucy is a medical case, to you she is your heart. The way I see it is we are responsible for interpreting the wishes of our fur children and making sure that our decisions are based on love and not fear. You are the one that has to live with the consequences, no matter what those consequences may be. Clear your head. Sit quietly with her, your next move will come to you. All my love, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Red Bank called to say that now I do not have a return appointment for tomorrow, that the cytology reports won't be back until tomorrow, and that I will get a call tomorrow morning after the oncologist and internist look at the reports, with a plan. Meanwhile, this morning Lucy is not eating at all. I syringed her a little food, but am concerned at the worsening of symptoms. Her back end seems ok now, but she is drinking more. her fever went down last night with fluids and ice packs, but she is warm again-- but can't tell if this is because she is lying in the sun (her choice). She can walk to litter box and jump up on 1 foot tall cardboard box without problems. Her pads and gums are still a little pink, though light pink. Thanks to Hideyo, I now have feline interferon and epogen. The oncologist is insisting that I not start her on anything until they look at all the test results. If she has an infection or heart disease, steroids could be harmful. If her blood cells are regenerating but then dying, epogen won't help and she could have a reaction. I have not heard back on any particular reason not to start the feline interferon. Do you think I should start her on something, against the advice of the oncologist and internist? I generally trust specialists, but it seems clear she is going down hill and days are passing. Plus, a friend's dog had neurological problems and saw specialists at a big hospital in Boston for a week before they tested for lyme disease (which I had suggested immediately)-- they had had him on steroids, then when finally saw he had lyme put him on heavy doses of antibiotics and stopped the steroids, and when he got worse they put him back on heavy doses of both and he pulled through. Obviously it would have been better if a) they had tested him immediately (they had not thought the neuro symptoms matched lyme) and b) absent the test if they had just loaded him up with both abx and steroids. So I am wary of specialists waiting for test results that take a while before starting treatment when an animal is going downhill. At the same time, I don't want to harm any possible treatment she could ultimately get if they figure something out. Do any of you have strong opinions or thoughts on this? Thanks, Michelle
RE: Lucy--what to do?
I don't think you imagined it at all - you know your baby, Valley more than anything else probably, and I am sure that she was feeling better - but not sure if it was the epogen that caused - and it's possible - if your kitty's BP is very low, and epogen will very quickly increase BP and it might be related to that?? I just did not want Michelle to expect to see the immediate response from epogen, as she may be discourage if it did not, but wanted her to know it's okay if she did not see any immediate response, but rather wanted her to warn about high BP causing blindness --:-) _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Lucy--what to do? Hideyo - you are way more knowledgeable about epogen than I am -- I thought my Valley perked up within a day of having it; I guess that isn't physiologically possible -- do you think I just imagined it? Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have used epogen on 5 cats so far, but I did not see any immediate response - for anemia case, it takes up to one to three weeks to take an effect - and the main think you need to watch is to keep an eye on BP as it will increase BP and cat can become blind due to high BP, and could cause seizures - the both of these things happened to my baby Hannibal whom I was treating his anemia due to CRF - but when anemia happens due to CRF, you really don't have much choice but to use epogen as otherwise you would lose a cat from anemia.. my Ayumi is on epogen.. it does not make her feel better directly, but her PCV is slowly going up because of it. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:18 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? He seemed to perk up within 24 hours. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How soon did the cat feel better from epogen? In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Thanks. I gave her the feline interferon about an hour ago. She seemed feverish, so a while later I gave her some fluids. She then ate a small handful of dry EVO on her own. She is just laying there now. She is not grooming. She is definitely worse day by day. That said, she looked terrible last night but when I got up to check on her at 4 am she had gone downstairs to use the litterbox and then trotted over to a plastic bag and sat on it, I pet her a while, and then she trotted upstairs back to her box. I went back to sleep and at 8 am she looked awful again. I think her fever comes and goes. I have stopped temping her. When she is warm I give her fluids (not more than 150 ml/day) and put ice on her, and so far she eventually cools down. I was going to syringe feed her raw food, but then she ate a handful (15 pieces?) of dry food so I held off. I convinced my local vet to order feline interferon, and now I am working on getting him to agree to acemannan. He was skeptical about the feline interferon, and seems to think Lucy's case is hopeless and I am grasping at straws and wasting money. But he is nice to me, and so far has ultimately agreed to do as I ask. The acemannan request may put an end to that. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:04:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dearest Michelle, As I wrote before, I just went through this same push/pull anxiety with Spencer. It's enough to give you a nervous breakdown. I'm feeling your pain right through the computer. I know Lucy is in bad shape, but it does sound like she's at least comfortable for the most part. When you talk about worsening symptoms, are you referring to her not eating? Today is the first time she hasn't eaten on her own, is that right? Stress will put her off her food, perhaps she's just regaining her strength. The thought of her enjoying a sun bath is encouraging. She may be strong enough to wait for the experts to decide a treatment protocol. I wish I had the answers for you Michelle. I'm afraid that no matter how much support we have from others, it always comes down to our call when dealing with so this sort of quandary. All I can tell you is that after I calmed my spirit and communed with Spencer, (my last experience with what you are going through), I felt a little more at peace with the circumstances. Unfortunately, Spencer did not have a long time left to share with me. I never gave up hope, but I did find a semblance of acceptance and peace. The benefit was that the time we did share was full of unconditional love, and I don't know how else to put it, full of quality. It didn't keep him with me in the physical, but it allowed us to bond in an extraordinary way. It was an incredible gift that we shared, at a very costly price. I'll always be grateful to him for the lessons learned during that heartrending time. I have no idea what I would do in your place. Missing the pieces of the puzzle make it so very difficult to make these sorts of decisions with conviction. I would never take the advice of anyone over what my own gut was telling me though. The specialists may be well meaning, they may even be sympathetic, but to them Lucy is a medical case, to you she is your heart. The way I see it is we are responsible for interpreting the wishes of our fur children and making sure that our decisions are based on love and not fear. You are the one that has to live with the consequences, no matter what those consequences may be. Clear your head. Sit quietly with her, your next move will come to you. All my love, Nina
RE: Lucy--what to do?
Acemmanan might be back ordered - I order for my dog, JoJo a month ago and it's not available until February-if anyone has in their hand, please let Michelle know -- - do you think he will prescribe epogen? Please keep an eye on her gum as if her PCV goes now, you might want to really pay attention to that. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:17 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? Thanks. I gave her the feline interferon about an hour ago. She seemed feverish, so a while later I gave her some fluids. She then ate a small handful of dry EVO on her own. She is just laying there now. She is not grooming. She is definitely worse day by day. That said, she looked terrible last night but when I got up to check on her at 4 am she had gone downstairs to use the litterbox and then trotted over to a plastic bag and sat on it, I pet her a while, and then she trotted upstairs back to her box. I went back to sleep and at 8 am she looked awful again. I think her fever comes and goes. I have stopped temping her. When she is warm I give her fluids (not more than 150 ml/day) and put ice on her, and so far she eventually cools down. I was going to syringe feed her raw food, but then she ate a handful (15 pieces?) of dry food so I held off. I convinced my local vet to order feline interferon, and now I am working on getting him to agree to acemannan. He was skeptical about the feline interferon, and seems to think Lucy's case is hopeless and I am grasping at straws and wasting money. But he is nice to me, and so far has ultimately agreed to do as I ask. The acemannan request may put an end to that. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:04:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dearest Michelle, As I wrote before, I just went through this same push/pull anxiety with Spencer. It's enough to give you a nervous breakdown. I'm feeling your pain right through the computer. I know Lucy is in bad shape, but it does sound like she's at least comfortable for the most part. When you talk about worsening symptoms, are you referring to her not eating? Today is the first time she hasn't eaten on her own, is that right? Stress will put her off her food, perhaps she's just regaining her strength. The thought of her enjoying a sun bath is encouraging. She may be strong enough to wait for the experts to decide a treatment protocol. I wish I had the answers for you Michelle. I'm afraid that no matter how much support we have from others, it always comes down to our call when dealing with so this sort of quandary. All I can tell you is that after I calmed my spirit and communed with Spencer, (my last experience with what you are going through), I felt a little more at peace with the circumstances. Unfortunately, Spencer did not have a long time left to share with me. I never gave up hope, but I did find a semblance of acceptance and peace. The benefit was that the time we did share was full of unconditional love, and I don't know how else to put it, full of quality. It didn't keep him with me in the physical, but it allowed us to bond in an extraordinary way. It was an incredible gift that we shared, at a very costly price. I'll always be grateful to him for the lessons learned during that heartrending time. I have no idea what I would do in your place. Missing the pieces of the puzzle make it so very difficult to make these sorts of decisions with conviction. I would never take the advice of anyone over what my own gut was telling me though. The specialists may be well meaning, they may even be sympathetic, but to them Lucy is a medical case, to you she is your heart. The way I see it is we are responsible for interpreting the wishes of our fur children and making sure that our decisions are based on love and not fear. You are the one that has to live with the consequences, no matter what those consequences may be. Clear your head. Sit quietly with her, your next move will come to you. All my love, Nina
RE: Lucy--what to do?
Blood pressure increasing from very low sure may have been behind feeling
better. I need to learn more about the side effects before I consider using
it again. Our rescue group's vet tech recommended it for a couple of cats in
the past but Valley was the first of my own I used it on. Thanks!
Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
I dont think you imagined it at all you know your baby, Valley more than
anything else probably, and I am sure that she was feeling better but not
sure if it was the epogen that caused and its possible if your kittys BP
is very low, and epogen will very quickly increase BP and it might be related
to that??
I just did not want Michelle to expect to see the immediate response from
epogen, as she may be discourage if it did not, but wanted her to know its
okay if she did not see any immediate response, but rather wanted her to warn
about high BP causing blindness --J
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:36 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Lucy--what to do?
Hideyo - you are way more knowledgeable about epogen than I am -- I thought
my Valley perked up within a day of having it; I guess that isn't
physiologically possible -- do you think I just imagined it?
Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have used epogen on 5 cats so far, but I did not see any immediate
response for anemia case, it takes up to one to three weeks to take an effect
and the main think you need to watch is to keep an eye on BP as it will
increase BP and cat can become blind due to high BP, and could cause seizures
the both of these things happened to my baby Hannibal whom I was treating his
anemia due to CRF but when anemia happens due to CRF, you really dont have
much choice but to use epogen as otherwise you would lose a cat from anemia..
my Ayumi is on epogen.. it does not make her feel better directly, but her PCV
is slowly going up because of it.
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:18 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do?
He seemed to perk up within 24 hours.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How soon did the cat feel better from epogen?
In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED] writes:
Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no
reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the
kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has
seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really
experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy.
RE: Lucy--what to do?
No problem - were you using epogen on Valley to treat anemia due to non CRF? _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:32 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Lucy--what to do? Blood pressure increasing from very low sure may have been behind feeling better. I need to learn more about the side effects before I consider using it again. Our rescue group's vet tech recommended it for a couple of cats in the past but Valley was the first of my own I used it on. Thanks! Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you imagined it at all - you know your baby, Valley more than anything else probably, and I am sure that she was feeling better - but not sure if it was the epogen that caused - and it's possible - if your kitty's BP is very low, and epogen will very quickly increase BP and it might be related to that?? I just did not want Michelle to expect to see the immediate response from epogen, as she may be discourage if it did not, but wanted her to know it's okay if she did not see any immediate response, but rather wanted her to warn about high BP causing blindness --:-) _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Lucy--what to do? Hideyo - you are way more knowledgeable about epogen than I am -- I thought my Valley perked up within a day of having it; I guess that isn't physiologically possible -- do you think I just imagined it? Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have used epogen on 5 cats so far, but I did not see any immediate response - for anemia case, it takes up to one to three weeks to take an effect - and the main think you need to watch is to keep an eye on BP as it will increase BP and cat can become blind due to high BP, and could cause seizures - the both of these things happened to my baby Hannibal whom I was treating his anemia due to CRF - but when anemia happens due to CRF, you really don't have much choice but to use epogen as otherwise you would lose a cat from anemia.. my Ayumi is on epogen.. it does not make her feel better directly, but her PCV is slowly going up because of it. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Loesch Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:18 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? He seemed to perk up within 24 hours. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How soon did the cat feel better from epogen? In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow Michelle - that is a hard one. My gut feeling is that there is no reason not to start the interferon, for sure. I don't know anything about the kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has seemed to feel better. Will be interested in seeing what the really experienced folks suggest. Good luck. Prayers for you and Lucy.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
At 10:17 AM 1/19/2007, you wrote: There is no way I could improve on what Nina has said to you. It was beautifully written and expresses what each of us feel in our hearts all too often, I do look back and question my own decisions to at times, make those extraordinary efforts to keep my beloved fur kids with me, and I do question my own motives, Sometimes the only thing that helps me find peace is that our babies have no fear of death. They do not know it,,They fear pain, but you it sounds like Lucy is comfortable and knows she is surrounded by love, I wish sometimes that I had the spiritual belief that so many here do, but I do not, The one thing I do know, at least in my own heat is that we are all part of the same force, and that the end of this physical separateness is just one stage. The energy and bond you share with Lucy is forever, This will make it hurt less or the decisions easier but you are lucky to have each other. All my hopes for Lucy is good quality bonus time, I have not used acemannan, but I do use I.R. and interferon. I am glad your vet is assisting you and you should have the FOI very soon, All my very best wishes and good thoughts for you both. When you feel up to it , please share some pictures of Lucy,,you can private email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is so nice to send that positive energy to a beautiful little face, Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Kelly Thanks. I gave her the feline interferon about an hour ago. She seemed feverish, so a while later I gave her some fluids. She then ate a small handful of dry EVO on her own. She is just laying there now. She is not grooming. She is definitely worse day by day. That said, she looked terrible last night but when I got up to check on her at 4 am she had gone downstairs to use the litterbox and then trotted over to a plastic bag and sat on it, I pet her a while, and then she trotted upstairs back to her box. I went back to sleep and at 8 am she looked awful again. I think her fever comes and goes. I have stopped temping her. When she is warm I give her fluids (not more than 150 ml/day) and put ice on her, and so far she eventually cools down. I was going to syringe feed her raw food, but then she ate a handful (15 pieces?) of dry food so I held off. I convinced my local vet to order feline interferon, and now I am working on getting him to agree to acemannan. He was skeptical about the feline interferon, and seems to think Lucy's case is hopeless and I am grasping at straws and wasting money. But he is nice to me, and so far has ultimately agreed to do as I ask. The acemannan request may put an end to that. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:04:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dearest Michelle, As I wrote before, I just went through this same push/pull anxiety with Spencer. It's enough to give you a nervous breakdown. I'm feeling your pain right through the computer. I know Lucy is in bad shape, but it does sound like she's at least comfortable for the most part. When you talk about worsening symptoms, are you referring to her not eating? Today is the first time she hasn't eaten on her own, is that right? Stress will put her off her food, perhaps she's just regaining her strength. The thought of her enjoying a sun bath is encouraging. She may be strong enough to wait for the experts to decide a treatment protocol. I wish I had the answers for you Michelle. I'm afraid that no matter how much support we have from others, it always comes down to our call when dealing with so this sort of quandary. All I can tell you is that after I calmed my spirit and communed with Spencer, (my last experience with what you are going through), I felt a little more at peace with the circumstances. Unfortunately, Spencer did not have a long time left to share with me. I never gave up hope, but I did find a semblance of acceptance and peace. The benefit was that the time we did share was full of unconditional love, and I don't know how else to put it, full of quality. It didn't keep him with me in the physical, but it allowed us to bond in an extraordinary way. It was an incredible gift that we shared, at a very costly price. I'll always be grateful to him for the lessons learned during that heartrending time. I have no idea what I would do in your place. Missing the pieces of the puzzle make it so very difficult to make these sorts of decisions with conviction. I would never take the advice of anyone over what my own gut was telling me though. The specialists may be well meaning, they may even be sympathetic, but to them Lucy is a medical case, to you she is your heart. The way I see it is we are responsible for interpreting the wishes of our fur children and making sure that our decisions are based on love and not fear. You are the one that has to live with the consequences, no matter what those consequences may be.
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Thanks, Hideyo. Yes, if anyone has any acemannan-- can I please buy some from you?? If we use it, I don't think we can wait until February. I kind of doubt Lucy will last that long without something to turn her around. her gums are mostly gray, with only a few pink spots, so it is hard to tell. Those spots are still somewhat pink, but it could be from inflamed gums, as those spots are right over the canines. Her paw pads are still pink, though not as pink as usual. No less pink than yesterday, though. But the vet said you can't always tell from gums and paw pads. i asked the oncologist if they checked her reticulite count to see if she is regenerative or not, and he said that they did not and there was no point until they know if she has cancer, because if she does have lymphoma the anemia should respond to chemo (but he does not think it's cancer, so why not check it so we know more if it is not???). He is getting annoyed at this point by my phone calls and questions and acts very curt on the phone. He is not a vet who is impressed by a client having knowledge, he is a vet who is annoyed by it. My local vet is more willing to work with me, but at this point wants to defer to the specialists because he feels they know more than he does. Since Lucy does seem to have a heart murmer now and enlarged heart (which they said could be from the anemia) the point about epogen raising blood pressure does scare me some, and makes me want to try it under a vet's watch if possible. I have been noticing that I can see her pulse on her neck, though it might just be because she is shaved. When her fever was really high her irises in her eyes were also pulsating a bit, which Phaerwyn found could be from a heart problem. So given these things, I am a little more scared about epogen now knowing about the blood pressure issue. Of course, if her HCT keeps going down that will kill her, and epogen doesn't work right away so should be started as soon as possible, which leaves me in a quandary. She ate a few more pieces of dry EVO. As long as she is eating a little bit of dry I am loathe to syringe her. I did syringe her 3 cc's of raw food this morning, probably another cc of it with her lysine pill, she ate a capful of baby food, and at this point probably 20 or 30 pieces of dry EVO. About 10 minutes ago I pet her and, for the first time in 2 days, she stood up to be pet and started rubbing her face on a bag of catnip on her box. I gave her some catnip and she ate it and then rubbed her face in it, and then curled up and went to sleep. I think she feels better when her fever comes down for a while, and that is when she eats a little and wants to be pet more. For the last few days she got feverish only in the afternoon to night; now it seems on and off all day. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Acemmanan might be back ordered – I order for my dog, JoJo a month ago and it ’s not available until February—if anyone has in their hand, please let Michelle know -- - do you think he will prescribe epogen?Please keep an eye on her gum as if her PCV goes now, you might want to really pay attention to that.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Michelle, This is a tough one for sure..What tests are they waiting results for? Bandy received epogen for 6 wks, and his anemia was non-regenerative...but you know what it worked..We did this before we ever saw the internal med specialist..his pcv went up rather fast considering things, too...it was around 20 and went to over 30 in less than 2 wks.. We stopped it after we saw the specialist as it had started back down again only to go up again on its own..So I am going to talk to his specialist and run all this by her to she what she has to say about how he responded to things we did until his passing..His ultimate fate was to be uncontrolable anemia and you know what...that wasn't what happened.. She did tell me that he could have developed antibodies to the epogen, but he didn't ..I think I remember them saying that could be stopped when you stop the epogen..Did they do a bone marrow aspirate to see what type of anemia she has..?? I think it is a retic count, too. This will tell about the type of anemia.. I don't know really whether you should start the epogen or not.. I don't think the FOI would hurt though.. Guess you have tried all types of food, too..I am still just trying to figure out anything that might help her.. Keep us posted and you are in our prayers, Kerry, Angel Bandy and Inky - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
I don't know if she is comfortable. When she is feverish, she definitely isn't. At other times it is hard to tell if she is just weak or also nauseous or painful somewhere. The oncologist said he does not think she has any pain. Maybe it is just fatigue from the anemia and the fevers. She is not very interested in food. She would not eat all morning and at this point has eaten probably less than a meal's worth of EVO dry. I tried liver shake and even fancy feast, knowing the fancy feast could wreck her intestines due to her IBD. But she did not want them at all. The EVO tends to bother her intestines too, but it is all she will eat on her own and I hate to syringe her if I can get her to eat something. I may ask Gray to go get some turkey deli slices. Anyway, I would not say she is super comfortable. But maybe she is just weak and has no appetite. I have to say, I don't have any appetite at this point either. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:35:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it sounds like Lucy is comfortable
Re: Lucy--what to do?
At 11:36 AM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Perhaps I have missed something. Have they transfused her, Severe anemia makes the very weak and not eat. When my dog had autoimmune mediated anemia her refusal to eat was the first indication, Epogen is possible depending upon the type of anemia, but to me getting the immediate improvement in crit is basic, then the rest can follow, Maybe I am behind but transufing is not very invasive and gives immediate relief and buys time, Kelly I don't know if she is comfortable. When she is feverish, she definitely isn't. At other times it is hard to tell if she is just weak or also nauseous or painful somewhere. The oncologist said he does not think she has any pain. Maybe it is just fatigue from the anemia and the fevers. She is not very interested in food. She would not eat all morning and at this point has eaten probably less than a meal's worth of EVO dry. I tried liver shake and even fancy feast, knowing the fancy feast could wreck her intestines due to her IBD. But she did not want them at all. The EVO tends to bother her intestines too, but it is all she will eat on her own and I hate to syringe her if I can get her to eat something. I may ask Gray to go get some turkey deli slices. Anyway, I would not say she is super comfortable. But maybe she is just weak and has no appetite. I have to say, I don't have any appetite at this point either. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:35:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it sounds like Lucy is comfortable No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.0/639 - Release Date: 1/18/2007
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Hi Michelle, I have to agree that Nina said it all...and she is right...Your gut will tell you...Spend time with her and try not to panic...I will always regret what I did with Bandy because I did panic.. So take a deep breath and it will come to you.. Kerry - Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Her HCT was 18 when last tested night before last. They generally only transfuse cats if it gets down to 13 or below. I think part of the reason is the potential reaction to the transfusion (they can have an allergic reaction) and part of the reason is a general shortage of cat blood so they wait until it is really critical. Simon had 3 transfusions before his chemo kicked in and brought his HCT back up, but each time they would not do it until he was 13 or below. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 2:47:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps I have missed something. Have they transfused her, Severe anemia makes the very weak and not eat. When my dog had autoimmune mediated anemia her refusal to eat was the first indication, Epogen is possible depending upon the type of anemia, but to me getting the immediate improvement in crit is basic, then the rest can follow, Maybe I am behind but transufing is not very invasive and gives immediate relief and buys time, Kelly
Re: Lucy--what to do?
What is it that you think you did in panic and regret? Knowing this may help me with the decisions I am making. In a message dated 1/19/2007 2:51:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle, I have to agree that Nina said it all...and she is right...Your gut will tell you...Spend time with her and try not to panic...I will always regret what I did with Bandy because I did panic.. So take a deep breath and it will come to you.. Kerry
RE: Lucy--what to do?
Can you have the run the blood type with the existing sample - so that you know what it is - I did that with Ayumi just in case she needed transfusions. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:08 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? Her HCT was 18 when last tested night before last. They generally only transfuse cats if it gets down to 13 or below. I think part of the reason is the potential reaction to the transfusion (they can have an allergic reaction) and part of the reason is a general shortage of cat blood so they wait until it is really critical. Simon had 3 transfusions before his chemo kicked in and brought his HCT back up, but each time they would not do it until he was 13 or below. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 2:47:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps I have missed something. Have they transfused her, Severe anemia makes the very weak and not eat. When my dog had autoimmune mediated anemia her refusal to eat was the first indication, Epogen is possible depending upon the type of anemia, but to me getting the immediate improvement in crit is basic, then the rest can follow, Maybe I am behind but transufing is not very invasive and gives immediate relief and buys time, Kelly
Re: Lucy--what to do?
they don't have a sample anymore. I asked them to run the reticulites from any blood they have, this morning, and they said they don't have any. In a message dated 1/19/2007 3:19:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can you have the run the blood type with the existing sample – so that you know what it is – I did that with Ayumi just in case she needed transfusions.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
She just ate a bunch of little pieces of turkey deli slice, then ate a few more pieces of dry EVO. Her nose was stuffy and now is runny (am using vicks vaporizer and neosenephrine) so that may have made the difference. I think that she does have a URI on top of whatever else she has, and I had stopped the amoxi because the oncologist said no point (stupid) so I think her cold got worse again. I restarted amoxi and lysine this morning when I realized she was stuffy again. patches has a uri too (clavamox seems to be kicking it, knock on wood) so I think that, being immune suppressed and having something else long-term going on, she got a URI on top. Michelle
RE: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Michelle - don't let BP issue stop using epogen though in the future - you just need to watch it - if BP goes over 170 or something, you can give norvasc to control BP so that she won't become blind - you can do certain things to prevent it - If you haven't please read this link - it's mainly for CRF kitties - abut it has a great information regarding anemia.. http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan?? Thanks, Hideyo. Yes, if anyone has any acemannan-- can I please buy some from you?? If we use it, I don't think we can wait until February. I kind of doubt Lucy will last that long without something to turn her around. her gums are mostly gray, with only a few pink spots, so it is hard to tell. Those spots are still somewhat pink, but it could be from inflamed gums, as those spots are right over the canines. Her paw pads are still pink, though not as pink as usual. No less pink than yesterday, though. But the vet said you can't always tell from gums and paw pads. i asked the oncologist if they checked her reticulite count to see if she is regenerative or not, and he said that they did not and there was no point until they know if she has cancer, because if she does have lymphoma the anemia should respond to chemo (but he does not think it's cancer, so why not check it so we know more if it is not???). He is getting annoyed at this point by my phone calls and questions and acts very curt on the phone. He is not a vet who is impressed by a client having knowledge, he is a vet who is annoyed by it. My local vet is more willing to work with me, but at this point wants to defer to the specialists because he feels they know more than he does. Since Lucy does seem to have a heart murmer now and enlarged heart (which they said could be from the anemia) the point about epogen raising blood pressure does scare me some, and makes me want to try it under a vet's watch if possible. I have been noticing that I can see her pulse on her neck, though it might just be because she is shaved. When her fever was really high her irises in her eyes were also pulsating a bit, which Phaerwyn found could be from a heart problem. So given these things, I am a little more scared about epogen now knowing about the blood pressure issue. Of course, if her HCT keeps going down that will kill her, and epogen doesn't work right away so should be started as soon as possible, which leaves me in a quandary. She ate a few more pieces of dry EVO. As long as she is eating a little bit of dry I am loathe to syringe her. I did syringe her 3 cc's of raw food this morning, probably another cc of it with her lysine pill, she ate a capful of baby food, and at this point probably 20 or 30 pieces of dry EVO. About 10 minutes ago I pet her and, for the first time in 2 days, she stood up to be pet and started rubbing her face on a bag of catnip on her box. I gave her some catnip and she ate it and then rubbed her face in it, and then curled up and went to sleep. I think she feels better when her fever comes down for a while, and that is when she eats a little and wants to be pet more. For the last few days she got feverish only in the afternoon to night; now it seems on and off all day. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Acemmanan might be back ordered - I order for my dog, JoJo a month ago and it's not available until February-if anyone has in their hand, please let Michelle know -- - do you think he will prescribe epogen?Please keep an eye on her gum as if her PCV goes now, you might want to really pay attention to that.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Michelle, Do you think that immuno-regulin might help her fevers? I don't know anything about what sweet Lucy is going through but I know with my Smokey when he was running a fever he wouldn't eat. I do know that I was having a terrible time with him getting fevers and the immuno-regulin seemed to have helped. I know with all of her other symptoms it may not be something she needs to be given but it was just a thought. I will be praying that your sweet Lucy starts feeling better and you get some answers as to what is going on with her. Cindy Reasoner --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. I gave her the feline interferon about an hour ago. She seemed feverish, so a while later I gave her some fluids. She then ate a small handful of dry EVO on her own. She is just laying there now. She is not grooming. She is definitely worse day by day. That said, she looked terrible last night but when I got up to check on her at 4 am she had gone downstairs to use the litterbox and then trotted over to a plastic bag and sat on it, I pet her a while, and then she trotted upstairs back to her box. I went back to sleep and at 8 am she looked awful again. I think her fever comes and goes. I have stopped temping her. When she is warm I give her fluids (not more than 150 ml/day) and put ice on her, and so far she eventually cools down. I was going to syringe feed her raw food, but then she ate a handful (15 pieces?) of dry food so I held off. I convinced my local vet to order feline interferon, and now I am working on getting him to agree to acemannan. He was skeptical about the feline interferon, and seems to think Lucy's case is hopeless and I am grasping at straws and wasting money. But he is nice to me, and so far has ultimately agreed to do as I ask. The acemannan request may put an end to that. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:04:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dearest Michelle, As I wrote before, I just went through this same push/pull anxiety with Spencer. It's enough to give you a nervous breakdown. I'm feeling your pain right through the computer. I know Lucy is in bad shape, but it does sound like she's at least comfortable for the most part. When you talk about worsening symptoms, are you referring to her not eating? Today is the first time she hasn't eaten on her own, is that right? Stress will put her off her food, perhaps she's just regaining her strength. The thought of her enjoying a sun bath is encouraging. She may be strong enough to wait for the experts to decide a treatment protocol. I wish I had the answers for you Michelle. I'm afraid that no matter how much support we have from others, it always comes down to our call when dealing with so this sort of quandary. All I can tell you is that after I calmed my spirit and communed with Spencer, (my last experience with what you are going through), I felt a little more at peace with the circumstances. Unfortunately, Spencer did not have a long time left to share with me. I never gave up hope, but I did find a semblance of acceptance and peace. The benefit was that the time we did share was full of unconditional love, and I don't know how else to put it, full of quality. It didn't keep him with me in the physical, but it allowed us to bond in an extraordinary way. It was an incredible gift that we shared, at a very costly price. I'll always be grateful to him for the lessons learned during that heartrending time. I have no idea what I would do in your place. Missing the pieces of the puzzle make it so very difficult to make these sorts of decisions with conviction. I would never take the advice of anyone over what my own gut was telling me though. The specialists may be well meaning, they may even be sympathetic, but to them Lucy is a medical case, to you she is your heart. The way I see it is we are responsible for interpreting the wishes of our fur children and making sure that our decisions are based on love and not fear. You are the one that has to live with the consequences, no matter what those consequences may be. Clear your head. Sit quietly with her, your next move will come to you. All my love, Nina Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
Re: Lucy--what to do?
She's on I-R. I was giving it to her sub-q for her URI, which I thought was helping, but then she spiked a fever anyway. So I brought her in to the local vet on Wed and got her .25 ml IV. Her fever spiked highest later that night. If I kept her on it she would not be due for another shot until tomorrow. In a message dated 1/19/2007 4:26:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, Do you think that immuno-regulin might help her fevers? I don't know anything about what sweet Lucy is going through but I know with my Smokey when he was running a fever he wouldn't eat. I do know that I was having a terrible time with him getting fevers and the immuno-regulin seemed to have helped. I know with all of her other symptoms it may not be something she needs to be given but it was just a thought. I will be praying that your sweet Lucy starts feeling better and you get some answers as to what is going on with her.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
Michelle, Isn't one of the side effects of the IR fever spikes? Am I thinking of something else? Could her fluctuating fever be a reaction to the IR?? Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She's on I-R. I was giving it to her sub-q for her URI, which I thought was helping, but then she spiked a fever anyway. So I brought her in to the local vet on Wed and got her .25 ml IV. Her fever spiked highest later that night. If I kept her on it she would not be due for another shot until tomorrow.
Re: Lucy--what to do?
No. Those fever spikes, if they happen, happen immediately after getting it, last about a half hour, and then go away and don't come back. She has gotten I-R in the past for URI's without getting any fever at all from it. And now she gets fevers on and off all day whether or not it is a day she gets I-R. So I really don't think it is the I-R. Unless something about giving it to her sub-q really messed her up, but no one else has seen that. I don't think I am going to keep giving it to her. She is on VO now, and I am hoping to try something else like acemannan if I can get it. But I think she has had a run on I-R and it is not doing the trick. Her fevers may be a reaction to cancer or something else systemic that does not respond to I-R. Or maybe she needs a higher dose of I-R, I don't know. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 4:41:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, Isn't one of the side effects of the IR fever spikes? Am I thinking of something else? Could her fluctuating fever be a reaction to the IR?? Nina
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Michelle, which oncologist are you dealing with over at Redbank? Hope it's not the one I'm using as he has been very patient with me. Lucy continues to be in my thoughts and prayers, Renee Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:25:49 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan?? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks, Hideyo. Yes, if anyone has any acemannan-- can I please buy some from you?? If we use it, I don't think we can wait until February. I kind of doubt Lucy will last that long without something to turn her around. her gums are mostly gray, with only a few pink spots, so it is hard to tell. Those spots are still somewhat pink, but it could be from inflamed gums, as those spots are right over the canines. Her paw pads are still pink, though not as pink as usual. No less pink than yesterday, though. But the vet said you can't always tell from gums and paw pads. i asked the oncologist if they checked her reticulite count to see if she is regenerative or not, and he said that they did not and there was no point until they know if she has cancer, because if she does have lymphoma the anemia should respond to chemo (but he does not think it's cancer, so why not check it so we know more if it is not???). He is getting annoyed at this point by my phone calls and questions and acts very curt on the phone. He is not a vet who is impressed by a client having knowledge, he is a vet who is annoyed by it. My local vet is more willing to work with me, but at this point wants to defer to the specialists because he feels they know more than he does
RE: Lucy--what to do?
Michelle, I'll be offline till Sunday and just want you to know that though I can't offer any advice I'll be continuing to think of and pray for Lucy. Love and comfort go a huge way in helping fight off illness, and, God knows, Lucy couldn't be more loved or comforted than she is by you. We all know she's also a little trooper, and if anyone can bounce back, she can. Fervently hoping that the vet calls you with a diagnosis and plan of action asap tomorrow. hugs to you both, Kerry M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do? No. Those fever spikes, if they happen, happen immediately after getting it, last about a half hour, and then go away and don't come back. She has gotten I-R in the past for URI's without getting any fever at all from it. And now she gets fevers on and off all day whether or not it is a day she gets I-R. So I really don't think it is the I-R. Unless something about giving it to her sub-q really messed her up, but no one else has seen that. I don't think I am going to keep giving it to her. She is on VO now, and I am hoping to try something else like acemannan if I can get it. But I think she has had a run on I-R and it is not doing the trick. Her fevers may be a reaction to cancer or something else systemic that does not respond to I-R. Or maybe she needs a higher dose of I-R, I don't know. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 4:41:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, Isn't one of the side effects of the IR fever spikes? Am I thinking of something else? Could her fluctuating fever be a reaction to the IR?? Nina IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayers should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
RE: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
(This email from Michelle didn't reach me directly.) Just want to say shame on this oncologist. He should be understanding of your fears and concerns and respect the fact you have worked hard to be so knowledgeable about your beloved pets. You wouldn't even be talking to him if you didn't love your Lucy so dearly. Don't let him get to you. Lucy's welfare is the most important thing. hugs, Kerry M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan?? Michelle, which oncologist are you dealing with over at Redbank? Hope it's not the one I'm using as he has been very patient with me. Lucy continues to be in my thoughts and prayers, Renee Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:25:49 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan?? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks, Hideyo. Yes, if anyone has any acemannan-- can I please buy some from you?? If we use it, I don't think we can wait until February. I kind of doubt Lucy will last that long without something to turn her around. her gums are mostly gray, with only a few pink spots, so it is hard to tell. Those spots are still somewhat pink, but it could be from inflamed gums, as those spots are right over the canines. Her paw pads are still pink, though not as pink as usual. No less pink than yesterday, though. But the vet said you can't always tell from gums and paw pads. i asked the oncologist if they checked her reticulite count to see if she is regenerative or not, and he said that they did not and there was no point until they know if she has cancer, because if she does have lymphoma the anemia should respond to chemo (but he does not think it's cancer, so why not check it so we know more if it is not???). He is getting annoyed at this point by my phone calls and questions and acts very curt on the phone. He is not a vet who is impressed by a client having knowledge, he is a vet who is annoyed by it. My local vet is more willing to work with me, but at this point wants to defer to the specialists because he feels they know more than he does IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayers should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Craig Clifford. In a message dated 1/19/2007 5:30:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, which oncologist are you dealing with over at Redbank? Hope it's not the one I'm using as he has been very patient with me. Lucy continues to be in my thoughts and prayers, Renee
Re: Lucy-- what to do?
Hi Michelle, Do you have any a/d? Appetite stimulants? I went into panic mode when I took him to the hospital for IV fluids and they had to keep him. We had been doing sub-q's and I should have continued them as he wasn't that bad off until some things went wrong while he was there..Since it was over Christmas and no regular vet tech was there only a kennel tech...who could administer meds but I don't think very well...as one time she was going to give Bandy a shot and said what and how much..and I told her that was too much...she really didn't seem to know...then a few other things happened..It is a long story and much different situation than yours..I know something went wrongvery wrong from the time I saw him on Christmas eve 11am until I went back again at 1pm..And I will always believe it is something she did cause there was too much of a drastic change in him and his condition wasn't that bad at 11am..He was sitting up purring and talking to me and eating for me... I'm sorry to go on about this, but I have been having nightmares about it ever since..So I just want you to make sure to not panic and do what you can for her with your knowledge and things at home where she will feel more comfortable and all..I think you know what I mean. You will know if she needs to go for more help at the vet.. I have already been through a couple of ordeals with Inky without rushing off to the vet..just using what I have here at home.. I still believe some dex would do her wonders...as it always did for Bandy with those dreaded fevers...and you know we battled them for months and months..Infection or not..I have seen it do wonders.. I'll keep checking back on your guys, Kerry, Angel Bandy and Inky - Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.
Re: Lucy-- what to do?
I do have a/d and appetite stims, but she can't handle the appetite stims (periactin makes her a zomby and does not make her eat). Good news though-- Gray bought her some dry i/d and she got all excited and has eaten a bunch of it several times. At this point I think she has had at least one meal's worth today, maybe more. One time I was putting some in a bowl to offer her more, and she jumped off her box and trotted over to eat it on her own. Then the fever came back, though, so I have her on ice packs again. I believe in dex as well. I will see what the hospital has to say tomorrow re: the tests they ran. Problem with steroids is not just infection, but that her heart is enlarged and has a murmer now, and steroids apparently can make that worse. But the enlarged heart and murmer apparently could be from dealing with anemia over 'time, so maybe if dex helped the anemia it would help rather than hurt her heart. I don't know. Unless she has cancer, I doubt I will get any dex from the hospital-- they are very by the book. I am already working on my local vet to try it with her if the hospital's test results are inconclusive. Kerry, do you have any dex left from bandy? I prefer dex shots, which I assume you don't have, but if my local vet won't give me shots, maybe pills would help. And thank you for telling me (reminding me, actually, I do remember now) what it is you meant by panicking and things going wrong. I know it is hard to talk about. But it does help me. I am constantly trying to decide whether to bring her in, and just don't want to. Your conviction that this is ok gives me some strength to hold off. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle, Do you have any a/d? Appetite stimulants? I went into panic mode when I took him to the hospital for IV fluids and they had to keep him. We had been doing sub-q's and I should have continued them as he wasn't that bad off until some things went wrong while he was there..Since it was over Christmas and no regular vet tech was there only a kennel tech...who could administer meds but I don't think very well...as one time she was going to give Bandy a shot and said what and how much..and I told her that was too much...she really didn't seem to know...then a few other things happened..It is a long story and much different situation than yours..I know something went wrongvery wrong from the time I saw him on Christmas eve 11am until I went back again at 1pm..And I will always believe it is something she did cause there was too much of a drastic change in him and his condition wasn't that bad at 11am..He was sitting up purring and talking to me and eating for me... I'm sorry to go on about this, but I have been having nightmares about it ever since..So I just want you to make sure to not panic and do what you can for her with your knowledge and things at home where she will feel more comfortable and all..I think you know what I mean. You will know if she needs to go for more help at the vet.. I have already been through a couple of ordeals with Inky without rushing off to the vet..just using what I have here at home.. I still believe some dex would do her wonders...as it always did for Bandy with those dreaded fevers...and you know we battled them for months and months..Infection or not..I have seen it do wonders.. I'll keep checking back on your guys, Kerry, Angel Bandy and Inky
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Michelle, Dr. Clifford is my Emily's oncologist. I'm sorry that you are having a bad experience with him. Can you call the Internist rather than Dr. Clifford with your questions? Hopefully Lucy's fever will stop spiking and they will have some concrete answers for you tomorrow morning. Renee In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:12:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Craig Clifford. In a message dated 1/19/2007 5:30:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, which oncologist are you dealing with over at Redbank? Hope it's not the one I'm using as he has been very patient with me. Lucy continues to be in my thoughts and prayers, Renee
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Well, there are two possibilities as to why he is more patient with you: 1) you are less annoying than I am (extremely possible), or 2) Emily actually has cancer and he doesn't think Lucy does (though I am wondering if the pred she has been on is masking it, as no other diagnosis fully makes sense)-- he has been having to field a lot of questions not necessarily related to cancer because they don't know what is wrong with her and I happened to make an aptmt with him b/c the ER vet said lymphoma. I can't call the internist because he is still my listed doctor and I have not even met the internist-- she looked at Lucy in back-- and now the internist is on vacation and there is a new one who has not even seen her. So Dr. Clifford is it, and I am annoying him with questions that may be out of his field, and which are certainly not what is used to dealing with. And, I saw him yesterday, called twice after I got home, and called twice this morning. so maybe that seems excessive. But things kept changing and I had questions. Plus he kept giving us timelines that would then change, so I was questioning him on this as well (he said she needed to be seen on Sat but the receptionist called and said she didn't so I wanted to talk to him about that). etc. What is Emily's story? Is she FeLV+? what is she being treated for and what is she getting? how is she doing? If you have posted this already, I apologize. I have not been able to keep up with all threads lately. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:36:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, Dr. Clifford is my Emily's oncologist. I'm sorry that you are having a bad experience with him. Can you call the Internist rather than Dr. Clifford with your questions? Hopefully Lucy's fever will stop spiking and they will have some concrete answers for you tomorrow morning. Renee
Re: Lucy-- what to do?
I'm glad she is eating some, Michelle. Still remembering you guys in my prayers. elizabeth On 1/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do have a/d and appetite stims, but she can't handle the appetite stims (periactin makes her a zomby and does not make her eat). Good news though-- Gray bought her some dry i/d and she got all excited and has eaten a bunch of it several times. At this point I think she has had at least one meal's worth today, maybe more. One time I was putting some in a bowl to offer her more, and she jumped off her box and trotted over to eat it on her own. Then the fever came back, though, so I have her on ice packs again. I believe in dex as well. I will see what the hospital has to say tomorrow re: the tests they ran. Problem with steroids is not just infection, but that her heart is enlarged and has a murmer now, and steroids apparently can make that worse. But the enlarged heart and murmer apparently could be from dealing with anemia over 'time, so maybe if dex helped the anemia it would help rather than hurt her heart. I don't know. Unless she has cancer, I doubt I will get any dex from the hospital-- they are very by the book. I am already working on my local vet to try it with her if the hospital's test results are inconclusive. Kerry, do you have any dex left from bandy? I prefer dex shots, which I assume you don't have, but if my local vet won't give me shots, maybe pills would help. And thank you for telling me (reminding me, actually, I do remember now) what it is you meant by panicking and things going wrong. I know it is hard to talk about. But it does help me. I am constantly trying to decide whether to bring her in, and just don't want to. Your conviction that this is ok gives me some strength to hold off. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle, Do you have any a/d? Appetite stimulants? I went into panic mode when I took him to the hospital for IV fluids and they had to keep him. We had been doing sub-q's and I should have continued them as he wasn't that bad off until some things went wrong while he was there..Since it was over Christmas and no regular vet tech was there only a kennel tech...who could administer meds but I don't think very well...as one time she was going to give Bandy a shot and said what and how much..and I told her that was too much...she really didn't seem to know...then a few other things happened..It is a long story and much different situation than yours..I know something went wrongvery wrong from the time I saw him on Christmas eve 11am until I went back again at 1pm..And I will always believe it is something she did cause there was too much of a drastic change in him and his condition wasn't that bad at 11am..He was sitting up purring and talking to me and eating for me... I'm sorry to go on about this, but I have been having nightmares about it ever since..So I just want you to make sure to not panic and do what you can for her with your knowledge and things at home where she will feel more comfortable and all..I think you know what I mean. You will know if she needs to go for more help at the vet.. I have already been through a couple of ordeals with Inky without rushing off to the vet..just using what I have here at home.. I still believe some dex would do her wonders...as it always did for Bandy with those dreaded fevers...and you know we battled them for months and months..Infection or not..I have seen it do wonders.. I'll keep checking back on your guys, Kerry, Angel Bandy and Inky
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Yeah, I guess Dr. Clifford is a bit frustrated about not being able to give you an answer right away. And the calls may be a bit more than he is used to, especially considering how hectic it gets there, but it's certainly understandable why you would need to make those phone calls. As for Emily, she has mammary gland cancer. She had two surgeries and she is getting chemo now. She is not FELV positive nor are any of my other cats. I'm here because of Phaewryn. When she found out about Emily's cancer she posted here to see if anyone had any experience with that kind of cancer. I have been quietly lurking, more or less, ever since. Renee In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:49:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, there are two possibilities as to why he is more patient with you: 1) you are less annoying than I am (extremely possible), or 2) Emily actually has cancer and he doesn't think Lucy does (though I am wondering if the pred she has been on is masking it, as no other diagnosis fully makes sense)-- he has been having to field a lot of questions not necessarily related to cancer because they don't know what is wrong with her and I happened to make an aptmt with him b/c the ER vet said lymphoma. I can't call the internist because he is still my listed doctor and I have not even met the internist-- she looked at Lucy in back-- and now the internist is on vacation and there is a new one who has not even seen her. So Dr. Clifford is it, and I am annoying him with questions that may be out of his field, and which are certainly not what is used to dealing with. And, I saw him yesterday, called twice after I got home, and called twice this morning. so maybe that seems excessive. But things kept changing and I had questions. Plus he kept giving us timelines that would then change, so I was questioning him on this as well (he said she needed to be seen on Sat but the receptionist called and said she didn't so I wanted to talk to him about that). etc. What is Emily's story? Is she FeLV+? what is she being treated for and what is she getting? how is she doing? If you have posted this already, I apologize. I have not been able to keep up with all threads lately. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:36:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, Dr. Clifford is my Emily's oncologist. I'm sorry that you are having a bad experience with him. Can you call the Internist rather than Dr. Clifford with your questions?Hopefully Lucy's fever will stop spiking and they will have some concrete answers for you tomorrow morning. Renee
Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??
Oh, I have read most of the posts about Emily. I forgot-- sorry. I am glad she is doing well. Michelle In a message dated 1/19/2007 9:00:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for Emily, she has mammary gland cancer. She had two surgeries and she is getting chemo now. She is not FELV positive nor are any of my other cats. I'm here because of Phaewryn. When she found out about Emily's cancer she posted here to see if anyone had any experience with that kind of cancer. I have been quietly lurking, more or less, ever since. Renee
