Re: Captain Beefheart (re:Welfare Music)
Marie on Beefheart... There is a difference between noise and music, right? CK: Actually, according to Zappa when recording those LPs, the point was to answer that question, "No." Well, I think they answered that question with a *yes*. There is a difference between noise and music. Beefheart falls on the noise side to these ears. marie Let's face it - Beefheart is now and always has been a "guy thang" A seventies male bonding, rite-of-passage grunt; an incomprehensible po' boys answer of an imitation of Frank Zappa imitating Lowell George in a fit of garbled humor as rage and longing and a testament to "if it's totally incomprehensible, then it must be good" theory of music journalism. Marie is right...AND she didn't have to say so by using profanity to get her point across (sorry, Lance - g ) Tera
News flash: Swarb's not dead.
(But he still looks just like Joan Plowright...) April 21, 1999 Folk rocker's obituary makes one BIG MISTAKE LONDON (CNN) -- Dave Swarbrick, of the seminal folk-rock group Fairport Convention, was alive and chuckling, friends said Wednesday, after seeing a complimentary obituary published in a top British newspaper. The Daily Telegraph apologized for mistakenly reporting his death at the age of 58 and carrying the obituary on Tuesday. Swarbrick was still hospitalized Wednesday, recovering from a chest infection. His wife Jill told the Daily Mail, "This is really going to tickle him pink."
Hillbilly boogiemen GO SEE THEM BEFORE THEY LEAVE!
Fri, Apr 23 Rocky's 1405-239-2266 Oklahoma City OK Sat, Apr 24 The Fur Shop 1918-582-2571 Tulsa OK Sun, Apr 25 Egos, Austin TX Mon, Apr 26 Ginny's little Longhorn, Austin TX Tue, Apr 27 Ale House 1713-521-2333 Houston TX Wed, Apr 28 Steve Dean's show San Marcos TX Thu, Apr 29 Continental Club 1512-441-2444 Austin TX Fri, Apr 30 Houston Brewery 1713-953-0101 Houston TX Sat, May 1 The Hootnanny 1210-734-3325 San Antonio TX
Re: Most albums sold, per RIAA
Jon: As far as the lowest common denominator argument goes, I'm not sure what to make of it. The Beatles have sold about 20% more albums; does that mean they made music for a 20% lower common denominator? (I suspect there are a few folks who will answer "yes".) Out of the top 25 on that best-selling etc. Hitching the popularity of music to some sort of inverse proportion, whereby more records sold equals dwindling quality is one of those equations that has too damn many exceptions to be very useful. But I think that if you state it this way -- "Just because something sells like hotcakes doesn't mean it's any good" -- then you're on more solid ground. And if you then explore the reasons why marketing and hype, and good ol' arbitrary taste, can catapult an OK product to mass popularity -- anything from Beanie Babies to Shania to the latest Keanu Reeves movie -- you can make some sense of it. I don't know how many times I've had the following discussion with my two girls, as they're watching MTV: Eloquent dad: Man, that sucks. Oldest daughter: Yeah, if it sucks so bad, why is it the top-selling record in the country? Dad: Well, honey, you have to understand the power of marketing. When they pour millions of dollars... Hey, where you going? -- Terry Smith
Chicago Calendar Errata
one of those frequent inexplicable gaps twixt brain and fingers: 5/14-15: 5/14-15: John Wesley Harding and Ellis Paul at SCHUBAS TAVERN! Two shows each night. Thought you'd want to know so you could try out the link. A HREF="http://www.schubas.com/schome.html"Schubas Tavern/A
Re: Oliver Lake
Carl Abraham Zimring wrote: Could be, though he's spent plenty of time in Chicago, played with plenty of Chicago-based musicians, and put one one of the finest displays of saxophone playing I've ever seen in a Chicago club. I've always been a fan of his playing, and even moreso of his compositions. One of my desert island records is the World Saxophone Quartet's *Dances and Ballads*, and Lake's originals - 'West African Snap', 'Adjacent', and 'Belly Up' - are a big part of why I like that album so much. ~Greg ___ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
Re: NW P2 party
Gee Don, lots of us Midwest pussy people (despite the androgynous name and penchant for watching hockey in my underwear, I'm no boy) are going to be in Columbus, Ohio that weekend in May for the Sovines CD release party extravaganza. We'll drink a toast to you latte swillers if you promise to hoist one for us. Jamie D.
RE: Updates
Well, I'll stand in front of Rob Miller's fantastic jukebox there in his living room, in my best pair of overalls, with a haybale, and a feather boa drinking RC Cola, munching on a moon pie, and tell him Jr's right, and what the hell are you doing a "Knitter's" tribute album for anyway? What's next, a Golden Smog tribute album? How's about a tribute album to one of them Merle Haggard tribute albums? And hey, there's this really embarrassing Columbus band: a faux-gospel quartet, complete with fake witnessing and preaching done in a really bad hillbilly accent, atonal harmonies, etc...it's reaally funny, they and thier friends had some good chuckles. They should be signed! C'mon! I'm goin out on a ledge here, but they are truly alt country. The only more painful show I've sat thru in recent memory was the Blacks, who couldn't mumble their way out of the cloud of inarticulate hipsterism (and no, I don't know what that means, but it sounds good!). What people see or hear in this act, I don't get. Oh, wait, they have women who bare parts of thier bodies. That must be it. Matt "New wave dance craze it's still rock and roll to me" Benz -Original Message- From: Don Yates [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 8:14 PM To: passenger side Subject: Re: Updates I think we know who gets this year's Fowler Award at Twangfest for Most Embarrassing Private Post Sent To The List this year. Good one, Junior!g--don
Re: Updates and SXSW Stuff
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:00:01 -0500 Christopher M Knaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's on the list of "Cities with good alt.country music scene's that get a large amount of press." Um, Austin, erm, Chicago, maybe Nashville, maybe St. Louis - that's about it isnt it? Chapel Hill usedta be mentioned in the same breath as the above. I reckon it still should be, right? They've got pretty good basketball there too, he said begrudgingly. No quarter must ever be given to that team from Durham, tho. William Cocke Senior Writer HSC Development University of Virginia (804) 924-8432
RE: Most albums sold, per RIAA
But I think that if you state it this way -- "Just because something sells like hotcakes doesn't mean it's any good" -- then you're on more solid ground. That Terry Smith, he's a sharp guy. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
D 'n' C
I just saw on Pollstar that Drivin' 'n' Cryin' is playing here somewhere tonight. I seem to remember a few advocates on the list. Are they worth seeing now? They may be playing a fraternity somewhere cause the listing said Univ. of Va. They'd have to be damn worth it if that's the case. William Cocke Senior Writer HSC Development University of Virginia (804) 924-8432
RE: Updates
MATT!:Well, I'll stand in front of Rob Miller's fantastic jukebox there in his living room, in my best pair of overalls, with a haybale, and a featherboa drinking RC Cola, munching on a moon pie, and tell him Jr's right, Matt wins Friday's The Dave Purcell Rant of the Day Award. and what the hell are you doing a Knitter's tribute album for anyway? Yeah, what the hell? This bothers me. Poor Little Critter on the Road was a tribute album of sorts. It's redundant. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the world does not need anymore tribute albums. g It's one of those ideas that are better in theory. The only really good one is *Tulare Dust*, imo. And the Tom T. Hall tribute is pretty good. marie
RE: Updates
-Original Message- From: Marie Arsenault [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 9:42 AM To: passenger side Subject: RE: Updates Matt wins Friday's "The Dave Purcell Rant of the Day" Award. [Matt Benz] Well, it's early, I'm tired, cranky, bitter and itchy, the coffee ain't workin, and neither is the "everything" bagel. I believe I match the criterea for a Purcellian attitude
Re: Updates
In a message dated 99-04-22 17:35:44 EDT, you write: Yates opines: Anyway, it's too bad the person who wrote that essay spent so much time with the cartoon crowd down there -- he/she must've missed James Hand, Justin Trevino, Don Walser, Paul Burch, Dale Watson and all the other hardcore traditionalists types that played this year.--don Mark Rubin writes: Ah, but that's the point. Those artists aren't "alt." anything. They are country and western artists, period. Let's get that established once and for all. well, what the hell is alt country then? The most reasonable definition I've been able to come up with is anything with country roots that Hot New Country stations won't get near, touch, play, mention, support, blah, blah, blah, which would include Walsner, Paul Burch, Dale Wartson, etc. Elena Skye
Re: Updates
In a message dated 99-04-22 17:47:51 EDT, Jon writes: Well, it was part of the premise - that lousy performances/performers are especially destructive to the "roots music movement." Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented musicians from making great music? Elena Skye
Garth internationally
Sad to say, it's reckoned that one out of every four people in Ireland have
seen a Garth show. I know it's a small country but...
Unbelievable but true.
Kirsty
-Original Message-
From: Jon Weisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 23 April 1999 03:55
Subject: RE: Most albums sold, per RIAA
Do you think that we could say with some confidence that this
prove's Garth
Brooks makes music according to the lowest common denominator?
BTW - does anyone know how well Garth boy does internationally?
I believe the RIAA counts international sales in its certifications, but I
could be wrong. He's certainly done well touring internationally.
As far as the lowest common denominator argument goes, I'm not sure what to
make of it. The Beatles have sold about 20% more albums; does that mean
they made music for a 20% lower common denominator? (I suspect there are a
few folks who will answer "yes".) Out of the top 25 on that best-selling
list, I'd rather listen to most of Brooks' stuff than all but a handful -
in
fact, I'd rather listen to most of his stuff than all but a handful of the
entire list. Someone at one of our local HNC stations has been on a
Garth+NGR kick lately, so I've been reminded - and I'll take "Calling Baton
Rouge" and "Do What You Gotta Do" over an awful lot of other stuff.
Speaking of Brooks and 'grass, here's something Kathy Chiavola posted over
on bgrass-l about a year and a half ago:
Randy Howard had just finished playing fiddle on the Carl Jackson song
that
Garth recorded. Randy spontaneously kicked off Carter Stanley's "The
Fields
Have Turned Brown" and Carl joined in on guitar. All of a sudden Garth
began
singing the tune and knew all of it. He then decided to record it on the
spot. Whether or not it will be released is anyone's guess.
I'd like to hear that; I'll bet it kicks ass. The Carl Jackson tune
mentioned ("Fit For A King," on Sevens) sure does.
Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
RE: Updates
well, what the hell is alt country then? The most reasonable definition I've been able to come up with is anything with country roots that Hot New Country stations won't get near, touch, play, mention, support, blah, blah, blah, which would include Walsner, Paul Burch, Dale Wartson, etc. Yeah, but that doesn't include a lot of stuff that gets put in that bag, unless you use a microscope to search out those roots (and that's giving it the benefit of the doubt). Wait a minute, isn't this where I came in? Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
More Artists
When I refused to do an acoustic version of the songs I never recorded, I thought that qualified *me* as artist of the decade. g Anyway, back to the influential artists, a few bands still merit discussion: Pink Floyd - did for stereo what, well, help me out here Bee Gees - wrote more songs than you probably realized, GP even recorded one Phil Spector - the wall of sound thing, you know and Wilson Philips, of course, -John ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
new Go Betweens best of
All you country folk turn your heads for a minute... 14 track best of (15 counting the long no longer interesting concept of hidden track) plus the initial US pressing has a bonus live CD. track listing: Was There Anything I Could Do?/Head Full Of Steam/That Way /Part Company/Cattle And Cain/Draining The Pool For You/The Wrong Road/Bye Bye Pride/Man O'sand To Girl O'sea/The House That Jack Kerouac Built/Bachelor Kisses/Streets Of Your Town/Spring Rain/Dive For The Memory/Hidden Track - Lee Remick you country lovers can turn back around, the menace has passed. Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
RE: Artist of the Decade?
Do you know any black people who listen to the Beasties? Do other rap acts give them shout-outs on record? They are making white music for white people. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't hip-hop. As a matter of fact, in the latest edition of Rolling Stone, a rap artist by the name of Juvenile (or maybe that is the name of his cd, I'm not familiar with him) said that he loved the Beastie's song "Paul Revere" and if there was any song that he would cover, it would be that one (by the way, the article is not in front of me and this is not a direct quote, but what he said was to that effect.) He is black, so I guess the answer to you question is yes SOME black people do listen to the Beasties. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Cheap Trick (was Re: Chicago Calendar)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *6/15: RELS: Cheap Trick (live) I read somewhere (ICE, maybe) that this will be available exclusively through Amazon.com for like two months before its general release. Something about Amazon wanting to flex its muscles by getting an album on the charts on the basis of only Amazon sales. TWM === -- Tom Mohr usually here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sometimes here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
v-roys / bare jr.
I guess it's about time for the monthly reminder that the V-Roys are still the best live band in America. I saw the open (?!?!) up for Bare Jr. last night in Chapel Hill and they put on one of the best shows of theirs I have seen. They opened the set with the new-ish "Motion Pictures" and went straight into "Cry." Very good. A highlight was a new song called "God Damn the Sun." "Sorry Sue" gets better and better everytime I see it. And, the biggest highlight for me was "Virginia Way-Wind Down." They are getting tighter and tighter and, as always, seem to be having a great time. They said afterwards that they are really looking forward to the week of dates opening for Cheap Trick...like a childhood dream come true. Bare Jr. on the other hand made me feel old...even though I am not fairly young compared to the demographics of this list. They were pretty good, but they were SOOO LOUD and repetitive. I am still having a hard time really getting into the album cause so much of it sounds the same. I had the same problem with their live show. Chad ** Chad Cosper Dept. of English Univ. of North Carolina at Greensboro 336-275-8576 http://www.uncg.edu/~cscosper
Dwight Best of
I read in the Dallas paper yesterday that Dwight's version of "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" (from that Gap commercial) will appear on his new best of collection. Jerald
Hi everybody!
I'm Marten, new to the list. I have to say this is probably the most vital list I've ever been on! I had almost 200 messages this morning! My first instinct was to UNSUBSCRIBE real quick, but a second look told me there were a lot of interesting topics/artists being discussed. Soo... I guess I'll stick around for a while. BTW, any of you guys subscribe to the Steve Forbert list also? Marten ---R A M B L I N' R E C O R D S--- Lilla Fiskaregatan 5 SE-222 22 LUND, SWEDEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ramblinrecords.com +46-46-37 22 73
Swingin' Doors, 4/22/99
Last night's show was a hoot. The Souvenirs dropped by to give a sneak preview of a coupla songs from their upcoming debut album -- it ain't comin' out until the Fall, but it's gonna be a good 'un. After the show, we headed to the Showbox for BR5-49, who blew poor Cesar Rosas off the stage. The sun is shining, Faron Young's on the radio, and the Souvenirs are at the Tractor tonight. Life is good. Dwight Yoakam - Same Fool Bob Woodruff - Hard Liquor, Cold Women Warm Beer Mandy Barnett - Falling, Falling, Falling Carl Smith - Before I Met You Hank Snow - (Now and Then, There's) A Fool Such As I Lefty Frizzell - Time Changes Things Paul Burch - Monterey Alejandro Escovedo - I Was Drunk The Pinetops - So Lonesome I Could Fly Kelly Willis - Talk Like That Robbie Fulks - God Isn't Real (request) BR5-49 - Out Of Habit (last night at the Showbox) Carl Sonny Leyland - The Honky Tonk Wine Jerry Lee Lewis - Singing The Blues Hank Williams - Hey Good Lookin' Slim Willet - Offshore Drilling Rig Souvenirs - Tired Of Missing You (tonight at the Tractor) Allison Moorer - Easier To Forget George Jones - A Good Year For The Roses (request) Mel Tillis - Life Turned Her That Way Scottie Sparks - Old Railroad Track Dale Ann Bradley - Rain On The Roof Blue Highway - Good Time Blues Johnson Mountain Boys - A Sweeter Love Than Yours I'll Never Know Jimmy Martin - Don't Give Your Heart To A Rambler The Gourds - Fine Leather Truck Little Sue - Warning Trains Old 97s - Alone So Far Souvenirs - Hideaway Souvenirs - Excuse Me (I Think I've Got A Heartache) (live) Souvenirs - Anna Marie Don Walser - Green Snakes On The Ceiling Cynthia Gayneau - Last, Last Time Deke Dickerson - Mexicali Rose (5/9 at the King Cat w/ Mike Ness) Merle Travis - Blue Smoke Slim Whitman - Love Song Of The Waterfall The Backsliders - The Lonely One Hank Williams Jr. - Whiskey Bent and Hell Bound Gerald Collier - Understatement Of The Year Dallas Frazier - Son Of Hickory Holler's Tramp Charley Pride - Is Anybody Goin' To San Antone Big Sandy his Fly-Rite Boys - What A Dream It's Been Spade Cooley - South Port Arthur Jubileers - Teeny Weeny W. Lee O'Daniel his Hillbilly Boys - Lonesome Road Blues Neko Case - Rated X (request) Picketts - Same Town, Same Planet (Different World) (5/7 at the Tractor) Mike Ireland Holler - Some Things You Lose (request) Cisco - The Bum You Say I Am Merle Haggard - White Line Fever (request) Doyle Lawson Quicksilver - Mis'ry River Dirk Powell/Tim O'Brien/John Herrmann - Cluck Old Hen Buell Kazee - The Wagoner's Lad Swingin' Doors can be heard Thursdays from 6-9pm on KCMU 90.3FM in Seattle. Email me if you have any questions about the music played.--don
BR5-49
we headed to the Showbox for BR5-49, who blew poor Cesar Rosas off the Speaking of the BR folks. They are appearing this evening in lovely downtown Podunk, er Independence, Oregon tonight at Lenora's Ghost. Get there early as there are only 25 or so, tickets remaining. JC
Clip: Metallica and the SF Symphony (review for Jon)
Symphony Bends Under Weight of Metallica Orchestra plays second fiddle to rock band Neva Chonin, Chronicle Staff Critic Friday, April 23, 1999 ©1999 San Francisco Chronicle URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/04/23/DD17279.DTLtype=music Two antithetical genres mixed well at the concert pairing the hard rock band Metallica with the San Francisco Symphony. Maybe too well, in fact. The first of two highly anticipated shows was not, as fans from both sides of the musical divide had hoped, a dialogue between orchestra and band. Nor was it, as critics predicted, a dissonant clash of titans. Instead, Wednesday's two-hour-plus performance at the Berkeley Community Theater was simply a melting pot in which the nuances of more than 100 instruments -- violins, violas, cellos, oboes, trumpets, kettle drums, chimes and one unfortunate harp -- were largely reduced to a lush, not always audible musical backdrop for a very loud, very good Metallica concert. That was certainly no dire disappointment for the thousands of cheering Metallica fans packing the house. But it was a pity nonetheless, considering the time and toil conductor-composer Michael Kamen and the members of the band invested in this project. In preparation, they met in cities all over the world, retooling 18 Metallica classics and two new songs, ``No Leaf Clover'' and ``Human,'' for a symphonic orchestra. On Wednesday, those plans were sabotaged not by lack of style or enthusiasm but by volume. Try as it might, the orchestra simply could not make itself heard over the thunder of heavy rock instrumentation. The evening began promisingly with a luxuriant string intro to Metallica's 15-minute instrumental opus, ``Call of Ktulu.'' As each band member made his way onstage, the orchestra gradually built into a galloping rhythm that would have been right at home on an Ennio Morricone soundtrack. By the time guitarist Kirk Hammett slid into his first solo of the night, the orchestra's music stands were glowing a fluorescent white, liquid patterns were wriggling across the overhead screen and the sounds from the stage had built to a crescendo. After a pure metal version of ``Master of Puppets,'' Metallica singer-guitarist James Hetfield hailed the crowd. ``Ever hear the one about the heavy rock band that wanted to play with the symphony?'' he asked, grinning like a Cheshire cat. ``You're f-- looking at it, man.'' After exhorting everyone to have a good time, he introduced the next song: ``We usually call this one `Of Wolf and Man,' but tonight we're calling it `Of Wolfgang and Man.' '' We'll never know what Mozart would have made of the ensuing duel of wailing guitars and horns, but the crowd loved it. The orchestra musicians looked bemused, particularly when the song veered into one of the evening's more spirited call-and- response chants, complete with wolfish howls. It was about this time that a number of those in the classical-music fan minority, including director Francis Ford Coppola, chose to head for the exit. Behavioral differences between the classical and rock schools weren't limited to the audience. The members of Metallica and the Symphony presented an amusing portrait in opposites: While the rock band demonstrated its love of live music in roars and whoops, the tiers of classical musicians retained their elegant poker faces. In the world of Beethoven and Handel, it's the music that's the star. Still, some among the orchestra couldn't help but be swept up in the friendly looniness. One wag in the brass section returned the crowd's two-fingered salutes with his own. Another pumped the air with his horn. The crowd cheered them on. Metallica members often wandered through the tiers as they played, getting into the orchestral groove. Bassist Jason Newsted even jammed beside the harpist. Kamen, with his unruly mane and sleek tuxedo, acted as much like a rock star as a classical conductor -- impressive, considering the monumental task of coordinating so many disparate elements. He gave band members the thumbs-up and punched the air with his fist when a section went well. But all the high spirits couldn't change the fact that the orchestra was largely reduced to atmospherics for the concert's stars. Of the 20- song repertoire, only a handful capi talized on the diversity of instruments and talent onstage. ``Hero of the Day'' featured beautiful interplay between Hetfield's voice and the string section; ``Devil Dance'' found the brass instruments rallying to nearly drown out Lars Ulrich's drums during the swaggering intro. ``The Memory Remains'' juxtaposed heavy rock with a series of nonelectric interludes, in which the orchestra lavishly mimicked the song's organ-grinder motif. But mostly the orchestra heaved and toiled to little discernible effect, particularly on hard-rocking songs such as ``Fuel'' and ``Enter Sandman'' and the
Re: BR5-49
Oops, almost forgot to mention -- Deborah was talkin' to one of the BR5-49 boys last night after the show, and there was another girl standin' there who said she was from Lawrence, Kansas, so Deborah asks her if she knows Junior. The girl replied, "You mean *Phil Barnard*?!" We'll just leave it at that.g--don
Re: BR5-49
That was a former student, Don. I'm surprised she didn't say "Professor Barnard," which is even more irritating g. --jr.
Re: Captain Beefheart (re:Welfare Music)
Marie on Beefheart... There is a difference between noise and music, right? one man's noise...
Re: Captain Beefheart
my fave stuff ol' don's is the legendary am sessions ep, which features some the grittiest blues rock of the mid-60's, and the spotlight kid/clear spot double cd, which features some of the most monstrous guitar work courtesy of mr. zoot horn rollo(who's book on his beefheart years is one of the better rock'n'roll reads). np-danny gatton-hot rod guitar
Re: Cheap Trick (was Re: Chicago Calendar)
In a message dated 4/23/99 10:02:11 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: *6/15: RELS: Cheap Trick (live) I read somewhere (ICE, maybe) that this will be available exclusively through Amazon.com for like two months before its general release. Something about Amazon wanting to flex its muscles by getting an album on the charts on the basis of only Amazon sales. don't know about this, but there is a new "import" triple cd on the market that has all three shows recorded in philly in october of last year of them doing their first 3 albums. probably only for the hardcore fan, but for those of us who couldn't make the shows, a nice piece nonetheless.
The Gourds and who?
The other day I was checking out the Austin Chronicle's web-site, and they mentioned that the Gourds were making a record, backing up somebody relatively well-known in alt.country/country circles. And the identity of that person has completely slipped my mind; all I can recall is that it seemed to be a surprising pairing. Anybody know? -- Terry Smith, who realizes that this has probably been mentioned on the list, but can't be held accountable for remembering every damn thing
RE: The Gourds and who?
Doug Sahm, I think -Original Message- From: Terry A. Smith [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 12:54 PM To: passenger side Subject: The Gourds and who? The other day I was checking out the Austin Chronicle's web-site, and they mentioned that the Gourds were making a record, backing up somebody relatively well-known in alt.country/country circles. And the identity of that person has completely slipped my mind; all I can recall is that it seemed to be a surprising pairing. Anybody know?
Re: Updates
M Rubin wrote: Yates opines: Anyway, it's too bad the person who wrote that essay spent so much time with the cartoon crowd down there -- he/she must've missed James Hand, Justin Trevino, Don Walser, Paul Burch, Dale Watson and all the other hardcore traditionalists types that played this year.--don Ah, but that's the point. Those artists aren't "alt." anything. They are country and western artists, period. Let's get that established once and for all. Yeah, see, as far as I concerned, what we do and what I like to produce is not alt anything, it is in fact where country music would have gone if it had been allowed to progress naturally. Lots of us have taken our art to the powers that be and been rebuffed in favor of kids in hats and little girls straight off the cover of Cosmo. Also, we ain't traditionalists, either, we are doing something new but with an understanding of where we come from. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: Updates
Elena (?) wrote: Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented musicians from making great music? And Jon W replied: It hasn't, but it can make it harder for them to get heard, both because of the turn-off factor already mentioned - "Yeesh, those guys couldn't carry a tune in a paper bag. If that's what bluegrass/alt.country/blues is, I don't like it." Jon, isn't your turn-off factor above applicable to any genre? Seems to me that there are a lot more 'musicians who suck' than 'musicians who rule' in every realm, including rock, country, blues, oldtime, jazz, cajun, new age, native american drumming, and Tuvan throat singing. Or are you making a different kind of claim? Just searching for some clarification here. ~Greg, definitely in the musicians who suck category ___ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
Re: The Gourds and who?
Doug Sahm, I think By cracky, that's it. Sounds like a very interesting pairing; I wonder what the material's going to be. -- Terry
Re: Northwest P2 party!
Don Yates wrote: Deborah and I are gonna be havin' a li'l party for P2ers on Saturday May 15th, beginning sometime in the early evening. How sweet of the Yates Gang to honor my 33rd birthday in style. Are you gonna fly me out? Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Updates and SXSW Stuff
CK sez: Dave, who hates all things Chicago... Not true. Just very glad to be back home, that's all. And as far as your specific examples go, you eliminated one from the genre - even tho they are the 'corner stone band' on an insurgent country label, and you dismiss another band (who loads of people like) because they're not your 'bag of chips.' Kinda reduces the number of data points, eh? Read Linda's concert list tomorrow - there's ALOT of stuff going on. Well, in throwing out the Wacos, it's not a matter of reducing the number of data points, it's pointing out the relative weakness of a supposedly great scene when one of the "cornerstones" of the alt.country lot is, in fact, a rock band (and a good one -- I like the Wacos a lot) and three others -- Moonshine Willy, the Blacks, and Handsome Family -- suck. Most others are mediocre at best. And are we separating press coverage from the acts themselves? Is there a fantastic Sioux City music scene with all great original alt.country bands and no sucky ones and there just arent enough music journalists to cover it? Doubt it. Do folks pay attention to what it going on in Chicago just because its a big city? Yup. Erm...how exactly could a scene be overrated w/o some sort of attention being paid to it? I'm not saying there aren't any good alt.country bands in Chicago -- there are a handful, and I listed the ones I like. My point is that the scene isn't deserving of all the accolades and attention throw its way. The majority of the alt.country in Chicago is the kind that deserves the scorn Mark's Deep Throat pal was railing on: bands full of poorly written songs, scenesters climbing on the bandwagon, and loads of bad Yee Haw! hillbilly schtick. I'll wouldn't get so rankled about it if so much attention weren't paid to bad bands. I'm hardly a roots music purist, but watching indie rock hipsters don overalls and write bad songs about moonshine and fucking their cousins and crap like that pisses me off, when there are so many good and deserving bands who don't get the attention. Just speaking of local bands: Big In Iowa are doing just fine here, but if they were based in Chicago, they'd be huge; Prospect Hill has more chops and great original songs than most bands anywhere; and Dallas Moore does the outlaw country thing as well as anyone. Any number of the good bands on P2 are deserving of more attention than shit like Moonshine Willy. CK going to see the over rated chicagoan Sally Timms opening for the over rated Alejandro Escovedo Orchestra Dave, who thinks Sally Timms has a gorgeous voice but sings country music with all the soul of a wet dishrag, and who would never call Alejandro overrated in a million years...I'm seeing him four blocks from my house on Tuesday, in fact... *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Dwight Best of
In a message dated 4/23/99 10:19:37 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read in the Dallas paper yesterday that Dwight's version of "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" (from that Gap commercial) will appear on his new best of collection. Funny isn't it, that a song used exclusively for a TV commericial (thus far) falls under the category of "best of." NW
Re: BR5-49
Professor "not Longhair" Barnard wrote: That was a former student, Don. I'm surprised she didn't say "Professor Barnard," which is even more irritating g. File this tidbit away kids...g b.s.
Re: Most albums sold, per RIAA
In a message dated 4/23/99 7:05:34 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Just because something sells like hotcakes doesn't mean it's any good" I'll go one step further and say that because something sells like hotcakes there's a damn good chance it means it sucks big time. Guilty until proven innocent for me. When did this tide turn from the best selling the best (Elvis, Beatles, etc.) to the worst selling the best (too many to reference)? Neal Weiss
Re: Dwight Best of
Neal observed: I read in the Dallas paper yesterday that Dwight's version of "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" (from that Gap commercial) will appear on his new best of collection. Funny isn't it, that a song used exclusively for a TV commericial (thus far) falls under the category of "best of." Strikes me as pretty common that they'll tack on a new, typically unworthy track onto an artist's best-of release anymore. What I want to know is what tracks made this best of. I'm usually a lot more cheesed about what makes it and what doesn't than I am the odd new tune. Doncha think they'll snag a few sales with that hot new soundbite "single"? I bet they do. b.s. who bets "Two Doors Down" or "Lonesome Road" ain't gonna make that best of, darn it. n.p. Neutral Milk Hotel IN THE AEROPLANE...
Re: Northwest P2 party!
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Dave Purcell wrote: How sweet of the Yates Gang to honor my 33rd birthday in style. Are you gonna fly me out? We'll be sure to play some Moonshine Willy in your honor.g And if you're really lucky, maybe by the end of the night some unfortunate NW P2er will be assuming the Purcell position in front of our toilet bowl.--don
Re: BR5-49
WhyI've been calling him "Most Exalted" Herr Doktor for years nowg. NP: Emmylou Harris - Cowgirl's Prayer JC That was a former student, Don. I'm surprised she didn't say "Professor Barnard," which is even more irritating g. File this tidbit away kids...g b.s. Jerry Curry - Spectre Booking Independence, Oregon [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the Top 40, half the songs are secret messages to the teen world to drop out, turn on, and groove with the chemicals and light shows at discotheques. -- Art Linkletter
Re: Alejandro Beaver in Cinci
-- From: "Dave Purcell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Updates and SXSW Stuff Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999, 12:16 PM who would never call Alejandro overrated in a million years...I'm seeing him four blocks from my house on Tuesday, in fact... if he gets to the Southgate House early he will also be seeing Beaver Nelson, opening for Alejandro. He's playing in Oxford OH at the Buzz Coffeehouse on 4/30, too...
PLAYLIST: Progressive Torch and Twang, 20 April 1999
- Playlist for Progressive Torch and Twang Tuesdays, 8 p.m. to midnight WDBM, 88.9 FM, G-4 Holden Hall, East Lansing, MI 48824 Your hosts: Doug Neal and Jamie DePolo Questions, comments? [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Roots rockin', hip-shakin', soul-swayin' music!" Playlist for April 20, 1999 Tonight we wrapped up our MerleFest '99 contest by announcing the winners of our essay contest. The lucky contestant was Colleen Murdock and her husband, neither of whom had ever been to MerleFest before, but who are excited to go this year. The contest was a tough call - we had a number of good essays to read through, but Colleen's was the consensus favorite. Her essay can be found on our website: http://www.msu.edu/~depolo. There will be several runners-up who will receive CDs of MerleFest artists. The Americana Department here would like to send a big thank you to the labels that contributed, particularly Sugar Hill, Rounder and Skaggs Family/Ceili. We'll see you all down in Wilkesboro, NC! We also featured the new Spade Cooley reissue on Bloodshot Revival/Soundies. Format is: Artist - Song Album/Label Link Wray - Rawhide (TT Theme Song) Walkin' With Link/Epic-Legacy Mike Ireland Holler - Biggest Torch in Town Learning How to Live/SubPop-Sire Mike Ireland Holler - House of Secrets Learning How to Live/SubPop-Sire Fred Eaglesmith - Pontiac Lipstick, Lies Gasoline/Razor Tie Bap Kennedy Steve Earle - Dirty Old Town (request) Domestic Blues/E-Squared Richard Buckner - Jewelbomb Since/MCA Mike Ness - Ballad of a Lonely Man Cheating at Solitaire/Time Bomb Mike Ness - Cheating at Solitaire Cheating at Solitaire/Time Bomb Alejandro Escovedo - I Was Drunk Bourbonitis Blues/Bloodshot Alejandro Escovedo - Pale Blue Eyes Bourbonitis Blues/Bloodshot Vic Chestnutt - New Town (request) About to Choke/Capitol Billy Bragg Wilco - Hesitating Beauty (request) Mermaid Ave/Elektra Kelly Willis - Talk Like That What I Deserve/Rykodisc The Meat Purveyors - Like a Virgin/Lucky Star (request) The Madonna Trilogy 7"/Bloodshot The Weepers - Where in the Hell Demos Hot Soup! - Starsong Hot Soup!/SMD The Old Joe Clarks - Spent Metal Shed Blues/Checkered Past Jason Eklund - Off the Ground A Streamliner's Duet/Gadfly Tom Waits - Get Behind the Mule Mule Variations/Epitaph Michelle Shocked - Fever Breaks (request) Kind Hearted Woman/Mood Swing Alejandro Escovedo - Nickel and a Spoon (request) With These Hands/Rykodisc The Setters - I Wanna Be Your Dog The Setters/Watermelon Sandy Denny the Strawbs - Who Knows Where the Time Goes (request) Self-Titled/Hannibal Richard Thompson - Mystery Wind Rumor and Sigh/Capitol Doc Richard Watson - Honey Please Don't Go Third Generation Blues/Sugar Hill Lucinda Williams - Make Me Down a Pallet on Your Floor Ramblin'/Smithsonian-Folkways Steve Earle - You Know the Rest Sessions at West 54th/PBS James King - A Few Old Memories Lonesome and Then Some/Rounder Tim O'Brien - Tombstone Blues Red on Blonde/Sugar Hill The Nashville Bluegrass Band - I Got a Date Unleashed/Sugar Hill The Del McCoury Band - Get Down on Your Knees and Pray The Family/Ceili Steve Earle the Del McCoury Band - Carrie Brown Sessions at West 54th/PBS Flatt Scruggs and the Foggy Mountain Boys - Mountain Dew At Carnegie Hall/Koch David Grisman with Doc Watson Alan O'Bryant - Nine Pound Hammer Steel Rails: Classic Railroad Songs, Vol. 1/Rounder Hazel Dickens Alice Gerrard - Gonna Lay Down My Old Guitar Pioneering Women of Bluegrass/Smithsonian Folkways Ricky Skaggs Kentucky Thunder - Pig in a Pen Ancient Tones/Skaggs Family Ricky Skaggs Kentucky Thunder - Get Up John Bluegrass Rules!/Skaggs Family Doc Merle Watson - Russian Grass Home Sweet Home/Sugar Hill Jones, Dickens Hawker - Old River Heart of a Singer/Rounder Longview - Will You Be Faithful While I'm Gone Self-Titled/Rounder The Del McCoury Band - Beauty of My Dreams Mac, Doc Del/Sugar Hill Mac, Doc Del - More Pretty Girls Than One Mac, Doc Del/Sugar Hill Bad Livers - Workin' on a Building (request) Dust on the Bible/Quarterstick Bad Livers - Lathe Crick (request) Hogs on the Highway/Sugar Hill Gillian Welch - One More Dollar (request) Revival/Almo Sounds Iris Dement - Let the Mystery Be Infamous Angel/Philo Jones Leva - Cold Black Heart Light Enough to Find My Way/Rounder Ginny Hawker - The Butcher Boy The Harry Smith Connection: A Live Tribute/Smithsonian Folkways Allison Krauss Union Station - Happiness So Long, So Wrong/Rounder Spade Cooley the Western Swing Dance Gang - Steel Guitar Rag Shame on You/Bloodshot Revival-Soundies Spade Cooley the Western Swing Dance Gang - South Shame on You/Bloodshot Revival-Soundies Spade Cooley the Western Swing Dance Gang - Topeka Polka Shame on You/Bloodshot Revival-Soundies Spade Cooley the Western Swing Dance Gang - Down Home Rag Shame on You/Bloodshot
PLAYLIST: Progressive Torch and Twang, 13 April 1999
- Playlist for Progressive Torch and Twang Tuesdays, 8 p.m. to midnight WDBM, 88.9 FM, G-4 Holden Hall, East Lansing, MI 48824 Your hosts: Doug Neal and Jamie DePolo Questions, comments? [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Roots rockin', hip-shakin', soul-swayin' music!" Playlist for April 13, 1999 Our promotion of MerleFest '99 continued this week, as the deadline was this Friday, April 16 to submit an entry (an essay in 150 words or less on why you should get to go to MerleFest '99). We again featured large sets or MerleFest artists (which is not very difficult, given the fabulous lineups) and handed out CDs from Ricky Skaggs Kentucky Thunder, Jerry Douglas and Doc Merle Watson. We also got a copy of the fantastic new album from Tom Waits, "Mule Variations" and played a good helping from it. Format is: Artist - Song Album/Label Link Wray - Rawhide (TT Theme Song) Walkin' With Link/Epic-Legacy The Lilybandits - Drunk Shifty's Tavern/Fundamental The Lilybandits - Vertigo Shifty's Tavern/Fundamental Rosie Flores - Funnel of Love (request) Dance Hall Dreams/Rounder The Steam Donkeys - Waltz Through the Rubbish (request) Little Honky Tonks/Landslide Cheryl Wheeler - Sylvia Hotel (request) Little Honky Tonks/Landslide Chuck E. Weiss - Everywhere I Go It Rains On Me Extremely Cool/Slow River Johnny Cash Willie Nelson - Don't Take Your Guns to Town VH1 Storytellers/American Hayseed - Fulls the Shadows Melic/Watermelon Steve Earle the Del McCoury Band - Harlan Man The Mountain/E-Squared The Del McCoury Band - Baltimore Jonny Sessions at West 54th/PBS Doc Merle Watson - John Henry (request) Home Sweet Home/Sugar Hill Steve Earle the Del McCoury Band - Hometown Blues Sessions at West 54th/PBS Lucinda Williams - Stop Breakin' Down Ramblin'/Smithsonian Folkways Ricky Skaggs Kentucky Thunder - Think of What You've Done Bluegrass Rules!/Skaggs Family Ricky Skaggs Kentucky Thunder - Boston Boy Ancient Tones/Skaggs Family Doc Watson David Grisman - All About You Doc Dawg/Acoustic Disc Gillian Welch David Rawlings - My Morphine (request) Hell Among The Yearlings/Almo Sounds Tanglefoot - Jack the Green The Music in the Wood/Self-Released Tanglefoot - The Farmer's Piano The Music in the Wood/Self-Released Richard Thompson - 1952 Vincent Black Lightning (request) Rumor and Sigh/Capitol Mike Ireland Holler - Headed For a Fall Learning How to Live/SubPop-Sire The Weepers - Buried in My Chest Demos Mike Ireland Holler - Some Things You Lose Learning How to Live/SubPop-Sire The Weepers - Where in the Hell Demos Holler - No Vacancy Straight Outta Boone County/Bloodshot Mike Ireland Holler - Graveyard Song Learning How to Live/SubPop-Sire Jerry Douglas Steve Earle - Don't Take Your Guns to Town Restless on the Farm/Sugar Hill Guy Clark - Out in the Parking Lot Keepers/Sugar Hill The Del McCoury Band - Backslidin' Blues The Family/Ceili Mac, Doc Del - More Pretty Girls Than One Mac, Doc Del/Sugar Hill Ralph Stanley Gillian Welch - Gold Watch Chain Clinch Mountain Country/Rebel The Stanley Brothers - I'm a Man of Constant Sorrow The Complete Columbia Stanley Bros./Columbia The Lonesome River Band - Another By My Side Finding My Way/Sugar Hill Lester Flatt Earl Scruggs the Foggy Mtn. Boys - Foggy Mountain Breakdown Appalachian Stomp/Rhino Lester Flatt Earl Scruggs the Foggy Mtn. Boys - Little Darlin' Pal of Mine Flatt Scruggs at Carnegie Hall/Koch Lester Flatt Earl Scruggs the Foggy Mtn. Boys - Durham's Reel Flatt Scruggs at Carnegie Hall/Koch Lester Flatt Earl Scruggs the Foggy Mtn. Boys - Footprints in the Snow Flatt Scruggs at Carnegie Hall/Koch Hazeldine - Wild Blue (request) Orphans/All Swoll Lead Belly - Red Bird Sings for Children/Smithsonian Folkways Devil in a Woodpile - Easy Ridin' Mama Self-Titled/Bloodshot The Gourds - Fine Leather Truck Ghosts of Hallelujah/Munich Bad Livers - The National Blues Hogs on the Highway/Sugar Hill Seconds Flat - Walk Away (request) Self-Titled/Green Linnet Steve Earle the Del McCoury Band - I'm Still in Love with You (request) The Mountain/E-Squared The Hot Club of Cowtown - Silver Dew on the Bluegrass Tonight Swingin' Stampede/Hightone Robbie Fulks - I Told Her Lies South Mouth/Bloodshot Jimmie Dale Gilmore w/the Pine Valley Cosmonauts - Trouble in Mind The Pine Valley Cosmonauts Salute the Majesty of Bob Wills/Bloodshot Junior Brown - My Wife Thinks You're Dead Guit With It/Curb-MCG Dick Curless - Tombstone Every Mile The Drag 'Em Off The Interstate.../Razor Tie Tom Waits - Hold On Mule Variations/Epitaph Tom Waits - Get Behind the Mule Mule Variations/Epitaph Tom Waits - House Where Nobody Lives Mule Variations/Epitaph Tom Waits - What's He Building Mule Variations/Epitaph Tom Waits - Big in Japan Mule Variations/Epitaph Tom Waits - Lowside of the Road Mule Variations/Epitaph Jimmy Murphy - Shanty
RE: Updates
Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented musicians from making great music? It hasn't, but it can make it harder for them to get heard, both because of the turn-off factor already mentioned - "Yeesh, those guys couldn't carry a tune in a paper bag. If that's what bluegrass/alt.country/blues is, I don't like it." - and because it's often the case, at least in my experience, that lousy bands will play for next to nothing. Or nothing. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger You know, this sort of musical Gresham's Law -- that bad music represents a threat to the good -- has been discussed here before (we talked about it in relationship to Split Lip Rayfield, if I recall), and I still just don't buy it. "Boy if weren't for those damn Moonshine Cousinfuckers (insert "sucky" alt.country act of your choice here) misleading everyone about alt.country, they'd all be listening to Dale Watson and Hayseed." This kind of thinking smacks of an elitism that I can't tolerate -- as if the "sucky" bands are doing something they shouldn't be allowed to do, or are actually harming the bands a certain cogniscenti deem to be "real" (read, band with chops, bands that are sincere, bands that write "good" songs, etc. ) If you think a band sucks, fine, but don't blame them for turning off audiences from stuff you happen to like better. Now as for the major-label marketing machine, which tends to push the bland crap least offensive to the broadest swath of the mass audience at the expense of edgier acts, that's another story(and not, I think, what was being talked about at SXSW). Todd
Re: Northwest P2 party!
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Don Yates wrote: We'll be sure to play some Moonshine Willy in your honor.g And if you're really lucky, maybe by the end of the night some unfortunate NW P2er will be assuming the Purcell position in front of our toilet bowl.--don Don.you're a genious, my new band name"The Purcell Position" I love it, catchy.rolls off the tongue, and the journalists will be continually inquiring about the meaning of the name. Jeff Lynne Productions Present.The debut album by the Independence (Podunk) Oregon sensation(s) that's sweeping the nation, The Purcell Position. The Purcell Position - Yanni's Alright (LynneisGod 001) 10 glorious full stereo mega-compressed and overdubbed tracks featuring: - There's Not Enough Mousse In The World - Riding' the Porcelin Bus - Chucking My Life Away - Bad Alt-Country Blues (The Windy City Song) - Drummers/Rhythm Guitarists Need Love Too - Your Favorite Band Sucks, Let Me Tell You Why - Wildcat Dribble (Drivel) *duet with Ashley Judd - Court Braggasdocio - Fastest Mouth In the Queen City - The Scorchers Rule My World and special hidden/bonus track: Talkin' Big @ Twangfest (But Sleepin' Like a Baby) Sorry.fluff sometimes cannot be contained and limited to it's proper location. Best see some of you in June. Can't wait. Jerry
RE: Updates
#1 Allen Iverson fan Todd Larson wrote: You know, this sort of musical Gresham's Law -- that bad music represents a threat to the good -- has been discussed here before...snipThis kind of thinking smacks of an elitism that I can't tolerate -- as if the "sucky" bands are doing something they shouldn't be allowed to do, or are actually harming the bands a certain cogniscenti deem to be "real" (read, band with chops, bands that are sincere, bands that write "good" songs, etc. ) If you think a band sucks, fine, but don't blame them for turning off audiences from stuff you happen to like better. In the case of introducing outsiders/newcomers to the alt.country/bluegrass/whatever, I think it's a matter of pragmatism rather than elitism. A good example is a good friend and his wife visiting me in Chicago. Neither of them have ever listened to anything rootsy and the only alt.country they owned was on tapes I made them for Xmas every year. I took them to see Blue Mountain open for Robbie Fulks and they were converted. They've since gone on to see the Wacos, BR5-49, V-Roys and many others. Now it's not to say that they'd never again check out roots music if I took them to see Moonshine Willy and they hated them. But given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots music for good. How many of us have gone back to a restaurant we hated the first time around? Bummed that there was no good place to insert the phrase "shit sick," Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
RE: Updates
Greg says: Elena (?) wrote: Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented musicians from making great music? And Jon W replied: It hasn't, but it can make it harder for them to get heard, both because of the turn-off factor already mentioned - "Yeesh, those guys couldn't carry a tune in a paper bag. If that's what bluegrass/alt.country/blues is, I don't like it." Jon, isn't your turn-off factor above applicable to any genre? Seems to me that there are a lot more 'musicians who suck' than 'musicians who rule' in every realm, including rock, country, blues, oldtime, jazz, cajun, new age, native american drumming, and Tuvan throat singing. Or are you making a different kind of claim? Just searching for some clarification here. The thread started out from Mr. Anonymous's point that sucky music is hurting "the roots music movement," which would probably g include some of the stuff Greg's listed. Think for a minute about how different kinds of music get exposure. Rock, pop, country - these are mass genres, and anyone with even a mild interest (or even no interest at all) gets exposed to a fair amount of their stuff willy-nilly or with the most minimal kinds of effort, like turning on the radio and dialing around for about 30 seconds; fringier stuff gets corresponding less exposure, meaning that a sucky performance almost certainly forms a higher percentage of a newbie's total exposure to the style. Leaving aside for the moment the important question of what constitutes quality in a given style, even if the percentage of sucksters is the same across the board, the likelihood is that it will form a higher percentage of the total exposure someone new gets to a style in the crucial first contact stages, when s/he's least able to evaluate its place in that style. Plus which, all of the mechanisms that function, in part, to screen out incompetent (an important subset of sucky) stuff, don't operate nearly as well in the fringier worlds; some of that might be by design, but some of it's just a function of fringiness per se. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Re: Alejandro Beaver in Cinci
who would never call Alejandro overrated in a million years...I'm seeing him four blocks from my house on Tuesday, in fact... if he gets to the Southgate House early he will also be seeing Beaver Nelson, opening for Alejandro. He's playing in Oxford OH at the Buzz Coffeehouse on 4/30, too... Pretty good entertainment at Southgate this Sunday too, with Iris Dement. Stacey Earle opens. I'm on my way to Columbus in just a few minutes to catch Tom Russell and Andy Hardin too. If I can even manage 2 out of 3 of these shows it'll be a good week!
Re: Updates
Um...no it wouldn't. It would turn them off to that band, and possibly hanging out with you. Its a matter of "My Mix Tape/Top-Ten-List/Music Recomendations Define Me". They're your friends, and chances are you're not gonna drag them out to see Moonshine Willy so the question is moot. -- From: "Dave Purcell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Updates Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999, 1:14 PM But given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots music for good.
Re: Updates
You know, this sort of musical Gresham's Law -- that bad music represents a threat to the good -- has been discussed here before (we talked about it in relationship to Split Lip Rayfield, if I recall), and I still just don't buy it. "Boy if weren't for those damn Moonshine Cousinfuckers (insert ... This kind of thinking smacks of an elitism that I can't tolerate -- as if the "sucky" bands are doing something they shouldn't be allowed to do, or are actually harming the bands a certain cogniscenti deem to be "real" (read, band with chops, bands that are sincere, bands that write "good" songs, etc. ) If you think a band sucks, fine, but don't blame them for turning off audiences from stuff you happen to like better. Todd Why not blame them, if that's what they're doing? And there's a big difference between criticizing someone for art that's been thrust into the public right-of-way, and saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it. I don't even know whom we're talking about. -- Terry Smith
RE: Updates
Wildcat apologist Dave wrote: But given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots music for good. How many of us have gone back to a restaurant we hated the first time around? But did that stop you from going to restaurants altogether? I really doubt that people go to see bands as representatives of a genre, as if the gig is a trial for a style of music, especially one as loosely defined as al.country. Seems more likely that they'd just write off the particular band -- it might not win them over, or get them to delve further into the genre, but I doubt that they'd carry a bias against the genre based on one of its practicioners...and if that's the only chance you get to introduce them to the music, then shame on you for taking them to something that sucks..g Anyway, as I said, the real problem I have w/ your scenario above is when some kind of *blame* is placed on the sucky band, like they're failing to withhold the standards of the club and thus ruining it for the rest of the members. That's the subtext of these discussions, I think.
Re: Updates
Geez, why is this so difficult to get across? As Dave wrote: But given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots music for good. How many of us have gone back to a restaurant we hated the first time around? To which Todd replied: But did that stop you from going to restaurants altogether? Of course not. Nobody's saying a lousy band will make people abandon *music*. But if someone goes to, say, their first Malaysian restaurant (to choose something fringey), and the food is overcooked and greasy and makes them practically retch, the next time someone suggests a Malaysian restaurant, they may well say, "No, I tried Malaysian food and I don't like it." This is, of course, ridiculous - they just don't like *bad* Malaysian food. But not having inside knowledge of the kitchen or any exposure to *good* Malaysian food, they may well steer clear of anyplace serving Nasi Goreng thence forwards. Carl W. PS. Translation guide: Food = music Malaysian = bluegrass or insurgent country or what-have-you for overcooked = clumsily played greasy = clubfootedly parodic Nasi Goreng = banjo, perhaps
Re: single most influential, cont.
As a footnote to our discussion, see the new issue of the Atlantic, including an article arguing that Dylan changed pop music more than any other single figure, "including Sinatra, Elvis or the Beatles." (No mention of Der Bingle.) Read and discuss (I haven't, yet). Carl W.
Re: Updates
In a message dated 99-04-23 14:16:15 EDT, you write: The thread started out from Mr. Anonymous's point that sucky music is hurting "the roots music movement," which would probably g include some of the stuff Greg's listed. Think for a minute about how different kinds of music get exposure. Rock, pop, country - these are mass genres, and anyone with even a mild interest (or even no interest at all) gets exposed to a fair amount of their stuff willy-nilly or with the most minimal kinds of effort, like turning on the radio and dialing around for about 30 seconds; fringier stuff gets corresponding less exposure, meaning that a sucky performance almost certainly forms a higher percentage of a newbie's total exposure to the style. Ummm, who are these bands that are getting on the radio and turning newbies off of "altcountry"? And I'm curious who, besides Hayseed, passes the Mark Rubin authentic-altcountry-with-sincerity test. Elena Skye
Re: NW P2 party vs. Sovine Extravaganza 99!
I'm afraid I will be unable to attend both though I'll be closer to Don and Deborah's than Ohio. I'll be working in California Bay Area the 14th through the 22nd. We've got a rental car but I doubt my work colleague would fancy a quick trip up to Seattle. Hopefully, we'll find something to do (he's never been to San Francisco so I think we can start there). Have a good party! Have a good CD release show! Deb
RE: Updates
The thread started out from Mr. Anonymous's point that sucky music is hurting "the roots music movement," which would probably g include some of the stuff Greg's listed. Think for a minute about how different kinds of music get exposure. Rock, pop, country - these are mass genres, and anyone with even a mild interest (or even no interest at all) gets exposed to a fair amount of their stuff willy-nilly or with the most minimal kinds of effort, like turning on the radio and dialing around for about 30 seconds; fringier stuff gets corresponding less exposure, meaning that a sucky performance almost certainly forms a higher percentage of a newbie's total exposure to the style. Leaving aside for the moment the important question of what constitutes quality in a given style, even if the percentage of sucksters is the same across the board, the likelihood is that it will form a higher percentage of the total exposure someone new gets to a style in the crucial first contact stages, when s/he's least able to evaluate its place in that style. But Jon, isn't your example here different than the original comments, which were directed at alt.country bands playing at SXSW? Seems that there's a big difference between the bland, middle-of-the-road stuff marketed by major labels and played on the radio (in which case I think the villians are the marketers/consultants/et. al perpetrating the mass audience, least-common-denominator suckage), versus the smaller-label "insurgents" (the "fringier stuff") that a person would likely hear only if they're already in-the-know to some degree. If you're talking about these smaller bands, I don't think their suckage really hurts anyone or constitutes any threat to the so-called "roots music movement." There are always going to be lots of bands that suck, in any genre, but the fault lies not with those bands, but with the labels and marketers who elevate them over more worthy acts in an effort chase $$... Of course, as Terry suggests, this discussion would be easier if we knew what acts are being singled out.
Re: D 'n' C
I prefer Kevn Kinney solo to D 'n' C -- in fact I haven't seen the band in a while. But Kevn's got some great solo songs -- some that he does with the band. My current favorite is "Highway 316 revisited." 316 is the hwy. between Atlanta and Athens and Kevn' did a great Dylan parody for a benefit album last year. Sorry, I'm no help. I just go see the solo shows. One here next week. Deb
Re:Tom Petty's roots are showing/Gainesville
Another gap in my knowledge: I was amazed to read, in the liner notes, that Duane Gregg Allman, Bernie Leadon, and Don Felder all came out of the Gainesville music scene along with Petty co. Molly Hatchet also hails from FLA. BTW, they toured several years ago w/Danny Jo Brown at the helm. It was him, a bass player, ONE freakin' guitar player and a drummer. Duane and Greg played this area often, but are not from Gainesville. I believe they are from the Daytona area originally, Molly Hatchett sprang from Jacksonville as did Skynyrd and Blackfoot. Charlie Hargrett, of the original Blackfoot, still lives here in Gainesville (works in a great shop called Pro Frets -http://www.profrets.com) and plays around town often, occasionally with Molly Hatchett alumnus Banner Thomas on bass. There's still a bit of southern rock to be found down here. -- J.C. Moretta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.tekspeks.com
RE: Updates
Todd says: But given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots music for good. How many of us have gone back to a restaurant we hated the first time around? But did that stop you from going to restaurants altogether? I really doubt that people go to see bands as representatives of a genre, as if the gig is a trial for a style of music, especially one as loosely defined as alt.country. Seems more likely that they'd just write off the particular band -- it might not win them over, or get them to delve further into the genre, but I doubt that they'd carry a bias against the genre based on one of its practicioners... If it discourages them from delving further into the genre, then as a practical matter how's that different than a bias against the genre? I think Dave's restaurant analogy is actually a pretty decent one. If there's only one Chinese restaurant in town and it makes bad food, how many people whose first taste of Chinese food is there are going to go further afield in search of better? Some will, but a fair number won't. Whereas whether someone's first taste of pizza is good or bad, chances are they're going to get to taste it again, and from somewhere else (and maybe better), because it's omnipresent. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Re: Updates
Of course not. Nobody's saying a lousy band will make people abandon *music*. But if someone goes to, say, their first Malaysian restaurant (to choose something fringey), and the food is overcooked and greasy and makes them practically retch, the next time someone suggests a Malaysian restaurant, they may well say, "No, I tried Malaysian food and I don't like it." This is, of course, ridiculous - they just don't like *bad* Malaysian food. But not having inside knowledge of the kitchen or any exposure to *good* Malaysian food, they may well steer clear of anyplace serving Nasi Goreng thence forwards. Carl W. Well, this restaurant metaphor's a little silly to start with, but I would say that your explanation points out why, Carl. People going to a "Malaysian restaurant" for the first time are likely going there to try out Malaysian cooking -- I mean, the particular restaurant is subsumed by its category. If the restaurant sucks, they'll probably shy away from that style afterward. No big surprise here. But I don't think neophytes go to see, say, Moonshine Willy, to "try out" alt.country in the same way as a style of food. When their pals at some later date ask them to go see Robbie Fulks, I seriously doubt people are gonna say -- "Oh, no, I tried that alt.country stuff once, and it sucked, and I'm not gonna do it again." I guess what it comes down to is the degree to which a given band is known and marketed as representative of a certain genre, and the degree to which people associate their particular experience of the band with the entire genre. But the larger point for me, to say it one more time, is the notion of blame. The conversations here (and Mr. Anonymous' assertion that sucky bands are a threat to the roots music movement) is like a bunch of restaurant critics suggesting that the sucky Malaysian restaurant should shut down before they ruin everyone's taste for the good stuff... BTW -- have any of you popsters out there seen Jason Faulkner? Thinking about checking it out tonight, and hoping it won't turn me off from pop altogether
Re: single most influential, cont.
Carl W.: As a footnote to our discussion, see the new issue of the Atlantic, including an article arguing that Dylan changed pop music more than any other single figure, "including Sinatra, Elvis or the Beatles." Of course. He single handedly made it all right not to know how to sing, not to know how to play and still be a big star. Tom Ekeberg Oslo, Norway http://home.sol.no/~tekeberg/
Re: Updates Beaver
Jenni wrote: Um...no it wouldn't. It would turn them off to that band, and possibly hanging out with you. Its a matter of "My Mix Tape/Top-Ten-List/Music Recomendations Define Me". They're your friends, and chances are you're not gonna drag them out to see Moonshine Willy so the question is moot. Well true, I wouldn't drag them out to see a bad band. But I have had friends see the local rag describe a band as "No Depression," go see said band because they've heard me talk about said music, and hate them. On a few occasions, anyway. On another note -- who is in Beaver's road band? My pal is the soundman for Tuesday's show, and he's a pal o' Troy, Jud and that gang...was curious who he's going to see on Tuesday. Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Clip: Chesnutt Wilco from the Boston Globe
Dunno if any of my old homies have already posted this, since I'm a little behind. Sorry if you've already seen it... ROCK NOTES Chesnutt and Wilco: works in progress By Jim Sullivan, Globe Staff, 04/23/99 About 10 years ago, Vic Chesnutt - singer-songwriter-guitarist - spent an evening he can't recall that well, but one that turned out to be fortuitous. He was playing before a smattering of people at a Nashville bar and had propped up a cardboard sign that read ''I suck: Tapes $5.'' ''That sounds like something I would do,'' muses Chesnutt, on the phone, earlier this week. ''I remember that. That's the show where I met Kurt [Wagner] from Lambchop. He says I talked to him; I don't really remember it. I was really drunk.'' Nevertheless - or perhaps because of this lapse - a friendship developed. Last year, Chesnutt collaborated with Lambchop, a 14-piece band, to make the haunting and gorgeous song cycle album ''The Salesman and Bernadette,'' the recollections of a lovelorn salesman, someone both similar to and different from Chesnutt, he says. ''For me it's very important to have the pull between the goofy and the pathetic, the sad and funny. That's what makes my music, I think. That's my whole thing. I know the South plays a very important role in my imagination. I love it and I hate it, and that's a lot to do with my personality, my schizophrenic nature in general, and the nature of my music.'' The shape of the album ''started after I knew I was recording with Lambchop,'' says Chesnutt. ''I started picking some old songs, writing some new songs, it turned into a song cycle, an exercise in collage portraiture. Like I was going around finding `found objects' and placing them on a big sheet of plywood, and arranging them in a portrait.'' ''I'm a big fan of Lambchop,'' he says. ''They're a big band that can play quiet. Their older records were meandering dirges and they progressed into a soul band and I like both sides. This album was a complete collaboration, and sounds like a Lambchop record in a way. They're friends, and I love 'em as people.'' Chesnutt says he had the time of his life playing 25 European shows with Lambchop. They're not on his current tour, where he's opening for Wilco (tonight at the Paradise), because they work day jobs and can't take the time off. This makes Chesnutt's solo show ''not as lush and beautiful,'' he says. ''When I play solo everything slows down a lot. I think you can see the song a lot more, it's more personality driven. Opening for Wilco is different, too. It's been great. At least half the crowd knows who I am and they're really quiet while I'm playing. I'm a short guy [a paraplegic, Chesnutt is confined to a wheelchair], and sometimes they can't see me in these packed rooms. It's heartwarming.'' In another lifetime, when he could walk, Chesnutt played keyboards in a Georgia band called the La De Das. When he was 18, while drunk, he smashed his truck into a ditch and irreparably damaged his spinal cord. In order to play guitar, Chesnutt superglues guitar picks to a glove on his right hand. Has his technique improved over time? ''No,'' he says. ''I have good days and bad days. Sometimes, I think I make breakthroughs but it's all physicality: Sometimes my fingers don't work. It used to horrify me and the show would fall apart, but I learned to play through it, learned to just not let it affect me. The crowd loves it. They come up and say, `You're so real.' They don't see people [mess] up like that that often.'' Chesnutt, says Wilco singer-guitarist Jeff Tweedy, is '' a sweet guy. I love his music. I think he's one of the best lyric writers around. It's inspiring.'' Over the past few years, the Chicago-based Wilco has been regarded as one of the alternative country-rock standard bearers. But, perhaps, that tag needs revising, at least if the music on their latest effort, ''Summer Teeth, '' is any indication. Tweedy says the expansive, wide-ranging disc is the result ''of a band that's been traveling so much the past three years, really becoming a band. We wanted to go into the studio and hear something that sounded like us, and a bit like the Beach Boys and Beatles. We really used the studio and took our time. I think we succeeded on most songs, and came up with something kinda unique.'' That was the result. Did they discuss a plan to cover so much musical territory? ''Just a little bit,'' says Tweedy. ''In general, we just wanted to put stuff on tape that would excite us at the end of the day. I wish I had some good snappy answers, but it's just something that evolved.'' They actually completed most of ''Summer Teeth'' before they went in to record the Grammy-nominated ''Mermaid Avenue'' with Billy Bragg, the collection of unearthed Woody Guthrie songs. What Tweedy took away from working with Bragg was this: ''I took away some confidence as a writer - write things down, don't worry about editing.''
Re: single most influential, cont.
At 09:36 PM 4/23/99 +0200, Tom wrote: Of course. He single handedly made it all right not to know how to sing, not to know how to play and still be a big star. I have no comment. Just wanted to say how great it was to see a Tom Ekeberg post! --david cantwell
RE: Updates
Todd says: I guess what it comes down to is the degree to which a given band is known and marketed as representative of a certain genre, and the degree to which people associate their particular experience of the band with the entire genre. Well, I'd say that a show billed as an alt.country showcase is one that's at least to some degree marketing the acts who appear on it as representative of the genre, and I'd say it's reasonable for people, especially those unfamiliar to the genre, to think that a show billed as a bluegrass festival is going to feature acts representative of bluegrass. But the larger point for me, to say it one more time, is the notion of blame. The conversations here (and Mr. Anonymous' assertion that sucky bands are a threat to the roots music movement) is like a bunch of restaurant critics suggesting that the sucky Malaysian restaurant should shut down before they ruin everyone's taste for the good stuff... This is where you lose me, Todd, because I haven't suggested, nor do I think Mr. Anonymous suggested, that some external authority ought to shut anyone down. I do think - and I'm speaking for myself, obviously, and not Mr. Anonymous, who may be making a different argument - that this is a fairly specific issue related to how these styles are perceived on first encounter. It's worth noting that the International Bluegrass Music Association's mission statement speaks explicitly about promoting higher standards of professionalism, and the phenomenon that we've been talking about is a big part of the reason why - not just with regard to the music itself, but with all aspects of the field, like sound reinforcement, recording quality, art work, venues, etc. - but the organization doesn't suggest kicking anybody out of the business g. I'll leave open the question of the extent to which those are issues relevant to alt.country. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Re: Updates
Todd Larson wrote: But the larger point for me, to say it one more time, is the notion of blame. The conversations here (and Mr. Anonymous' assertion that sucky bands are a threat to the roots music movement) is like a bunch of restaurant critics suggesting that the sucky Malaysian restaurant should shut down before they ruin everyone's taste for the good stuff... I'm getting sort of lost in these restaurant analogies. g I'm not convinced that Anonymous' opinion on this, as relayed by Mark Rubin, is valid. IMO, if a sucky band prevents another more worthwhile band from getting signed/played, I think the music public is going to figure that out in time. Hopefully those more worthwhile guys kept their day jobs and kept practicing. And as Todd said: This kind of thinking smacks of an elitism that I can't tolerate -- as if the "sucky" bands are doing something they shouldn't be allowed to do, or are actually harming the bands a certain cogniscenti deem to be "real" (read, band with chops, bands that are sincere, bands that write "good" songs, etc. ) If you think a band sucks, fine, but don't blame them for turning off audiences from stuff you happen to like better. While I can't argue that those unfamiliar with a genre will perhaps be repelled by a bad band, I expect that folks who are interested and curious about music are gonna be able to sort the wheat from the chaff, and not quit eating bread if they get a bad loaf. (Uh oh, that food analogy again) Those that aren't aren't likely to be doing very much more than buying some of the music they hear on the radio anyway. As far as "the roots music movement" is concerned, there's just too many styles of music under the alt-country big tent to make the argument fly for me, which is why I don't think comparing it to bluegrass is particularly apt. Haven't many of the "best" alt-country acts taken pains to distance themselves from the label anyway? TW -- have any of you popsters out there seen Jason Faulkner? Thinking about checking it out tonight, and hoping it won't turn me off from pop altogether Well, I've read very good things about his new record, but I didn't care all that much for the first one, but I've never seen him, so my advice to you is to avoid eating Malaysian food at that terrible place I've heard about, though I wouldn't counsel you to avoid that kind of food altogether. g b.s. n.p. Hillman And Pederson BAKERSFIELD BOUND
RE: Updates
But the larger point for me, to say it one more time, is the notion of blame. The conversations here (and Mr. Anonymous' assertion that sucky bands are a threat to the roots music movement) is like a bunch of restaurant critics suggesting that the sucky Malaysian restaurant should shut down before they ruin everyone's taste for the good stuff... This is where you lose me, Todd, because I haven't suggested, nor do I think Mr. Anonymous suggested, that some external authority ought to shut anyone down. I do think - and I'm speaking for myself, obviously, and not Mr. Anonymous, who may be making a different argument - that this is a fairly specific issue related to how these styles are perceived on first encounter. I'm not getting into this really, but from a rockabilly (and 50's rock'n'roll in general) point of view it has always been a problem that sucky bands create or confirm prejudice against the music among the general public (and No Dep. writers (oops)). And I think this is a point everyone who has the faintest interest, save maybe the worst Grease/nostalgia/swing dance/classic FM enthusiast, will agree with. The problem is, of course, that at least during some periods of time the alternative has been no bands at all. Anyways, I'm off to see the local excuse for a Western Swing band, and actually they don't suck too bad at all. See you all later. Tom Ekeberg Oslo, Norway http://home.sol.no/~tekeberg/
RE: Updates
Ummm, who are these bands that are getting on the radio and turning newbies off of "altcountry"? I could name some pretty rotten Southern Ohio bluegrass bands who get airplay on Southern Ohio bluegrass radio and get festival bookings, but I doubt the names would mean much to anyone not from around here (does Larry Efaw ring a bell? Burning Bluegrass? See what I mean?). Crowe has had a couple of good rants on this subject; I'm going to see if I can dig one of them up. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
RE: Updates
Well, I have to come out of the woodwork to side firmly with Todd on this one. While I don't want to beat this food analogy to death, I think it's a good 'un, I just disagree with most of the predictions. I really think that most people are smart enough to recognize poor quality without assuming it's a characteristic of the genre (punk notwithstanding -heh). The diner with the rubbery overcooked chicken is not going to assume that all Malyasians like their chicken overcooked. They're going to assume that particular restaurant blows. Most people who stumble upon a bad band will not think "Hmmm...out of tune vocals, unsteady rhythms, poor playing skillls ... these must be the hallmarks of "alt.country." If that were the case, rock n' roll would've died out long ago. I hate people as much as the next guy, but c'mon, give 'em a *little* credit. And how about the dunderheads that like the crappy stuff, investigate more and realize that they like what we deem "the good stuff" even better? I don't think music of any genre has to be a zero sum game. Just the opposite. The more bands there are out playing in more clubs and getting more people out to see them and are garnering more attention for a genre and perpetuating the blah blah blah...well, from a working musician's standpoint, that can only be a good thing. Right? Uh...right? Hope this doesn't get me kicked out of the He-Man Hipster-Haters Club. Erin
Re: Updates
Jon Weisberger wrote: Well, I'd say that a show billed as an alt.country showcase is one that's at least to some degree marketing the acts who appear on it as representative of the genre, and I'd say it's reasonable for people, especially those unfamiliar to the genre, to think that a show billed as a bluegrass festival is going to feature acts representative of bluegrass. Jon, would you say then that if a 'bad' bluegrass band gets booked at a festival, the potential bad impression that could be loosed upon an unexpecting audience is the fault of the promoter? Or does the onus fall upon the band itself? Seems to me this is where Anon's arguments fail. I think Anon's beef is much more with the organizers, promoters, and marketers of SXSW, but all the ire falls on the bands. I believe that ire is misplaced. ~Greg, happy to have used the word onus, however inappropriately, in a post ___ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
pumpskully
--- John Flippo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:09:14 -0700 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "John Flippo" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Southern Rock Lives Has Pumpskully released a cd? Flippo according to my source, they're in the studio with R.S. Field right now finishing up an album to be released by they're also on the lookout for a new pedal steel player... === =) meggs http://www-scf.usc.edu/~ahern "Remember, it takes forty-one muscles to frown, but only four to pull a trigger." _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Updates
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, William F. Silvers wrote: Todd Larson wrote: TW -- have any of you popsters out there seen Jason Faulkner? Thinking about checking it out tonight, and hoping it won't turn me off from pop altogether Well, I've read very good things about his new record, but I didn't care all that much for the first one, but I've never seen him, so my advice to you is to avoid eating Malaysian food at that terrible place I've heard about, though I wouldn't counsel you to avoid that kind of food altogether. g PSST Todd..that Bill Silvers doesn't know anything anbout pop music. You'll love Faulkner and his first record _Author Unknown_ is terrific. Damn grunge popsterg NP: The Schramms - Dizzy Spell JC
RE: Updates
Erin Snyder wrote: I really think that most people are smart enough to recognize poor quality without assuming it's a characteristic of the genre (punk notwithstanding -heh). Well, I hope you're right. With true music fans, maybe, but I don't think the general populace is so forgiving (or curious). I hate people as much as the next guy, but c'mon, give 'em a *little* credit. That's the funniest thing I've read out here in a long while (Jerry's rip on me notwithstanding)! Dave, who, as guest rhythm guitarist, is hoping to not drag down Prospect Hill so badly tonight that folks never come see alt.country in Cincinnati again g *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
RE: Updates
And while I'm at it, I hate that hippie psuedo-bluegrass pap that Jerry
Garcia inadvertently spawned. However, when my staight-up bluegrass band
opened for the god-awful Gordon Stone ("banjo" player famed for
collaborating with Ph*sh), I felt no moral qualms whatsoever about taking
hundreds of misguided hippie dollars and lining my purist pockets with 'em.
So bring on the crap, I say! It has it's hidden benefits.
Erin
All The Way Down
. They are making white music for white people. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't hip-hop. Dude. Dude. Dde. Put on "Liscence To Ill." There are some major f*cking beats and grooves on that record, which a black man should be so lucky to put together. Just because your black does not mean you've got "dope moves" or "mad game" floating around your head. Conversely, just because you're white, does not mean you don't. I mean, I do g Beep-beep, y'all, John Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Updates
Another angle on this deal -- and I'll be short because all this talk about Malaysian food is making me hungry -- is the boy who cried wolf phenomenon. With a lot of these crappy alt.country bands -- fill in the blanks -- there's an inverse proportion between all the self-generated hype and the actual talent and inspiration therein. So if you go see a band, or pick up their record, based on, for instance, overheated praise that appears in their press material, or their ad in ND, and the band's not very good, you're likely to react even more negatively than if there'd been no hype to start with. I can't count the times that I've gotten excited about hearing a record, based on overblown bullshit spewed forth by the label or the band, and then listen, and think, Jesus, they play OK for having just stumbled upon their instruments four or five days ago. -- Terry Smith
RE: Updates
Hopefully my last post on this one This is where you lose me, Todd, because I haven't suggested, nor do I think Mr. Anonymous suggested, that some external authority ought to shut anyone down. Yes, perhaps "shut down" is too strongly worded, and I certainly don't think anyone is suggesting an "external authority" should put bands out of business (although it's an intriguing idea -- suckage police...) What I'm reacting to, pretty simply, is the tone of some of these conversations -- the ire that is aimed at certain bands who are getting attention (supposedly) at the expense of others. Direct it at the labels that sign them, the programmers that play them, the consultants that push them, the promoters that lump them together for alt.country showcases, etc. I do think - and I'm speaking for myself, obviously, and not Mr. Anonymous, who may be making a different argument - that this is a fairly specific issue related to how these styles are perceived on first encounter. It's worth noting that the International Bluegrass Music Association's mission statement speaks explicitly about promoting higher standards of professionalism, and the phenomenon that we've been talking about is a big part of the reason why - not just with regard to the music itself, but with all aspects of the field, like sound reinforcement, recording quality, art work, venues, etc. - but the organization doesn't suggest kicking anybody out of the business g. I'll leave open the question of the extent to which those are issues relevant to alt.country. True -- I suppose it's a bit different with bluegrass, where bands are so clearly identified as being a part of a genre which has, as you point out, an actual association involved with setting "standards" for the style and festivals arranged around that style, etc.
Re: Clip: Chesnutt Wilco from the Boston Globe
Bob, thanks for posting that. Deb
Re: All The Way Down
. They are making white music for white people. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't hip-hop. Dude. Dude. Dde. Put on "Liscence To Ill." There are some major f*cking beats and grooves on that record, which a black man should be so lucky to put together. Just because your black does not mean you've got "dope moves" or "mad game" floating around your head. Conversely, just because you're white, does not mean you don't. I mean, I do g Geez. I never said they sucked. I said their audience is overwhelmingly white. And i said they are not making music from a hip-hop cultural perspective. Of course I used more words than that...
re: v-roys/bare jr.
Chad said that he was reminded that the V-Roys were the best live band in America. I agree. He also said: Bare Jr. on the other hand made me feel old...even though I am not fairly young compared to the demographics of this list. They were pretty good, but they were SOOO LOUD and repetitive. I am still having a hard time really getting into the album cause so much of it sounds the same. I had the same problem with their live show. Bare Jr. makes me feel young. I absolutely love their album, and their live show (the first time they've played here) lived up to all my expectations. They were rocking hard on the very first song. It's nice to see a band give 1000% even when the gig is 75% empty. A friend of mine noticed how polarizing Bare Jr is, though, specifically with my friends here who often agree on music. Half of my friends LOVE them and half HATE them. I love 'em. Deaar postcarders, the guitarist was wearing pajamas, but they didn't have bunnys on them. Should I hate him? Please advise. :^) See ya. Steve -- == Steve Gardner * Sugar Hill Records Radio Promotion [EMAIL PROTECTED] * www.sugarhillrecords.com WXDU "Topsoil" * A Century of Country Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] * www.topsoil.net ==
Re: Updates
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:18:52 PDT Greg Harness said: Jon Weisberger wrote: Well, I'd say that a show billed as an alt.country showcase is one that's at least to some degree marketing the acts who appear on it as representative of the genre, and I'd say it's reasonable for people, especially those unfamiliar to the genre, to think that a show billed as a bluegrass festival is going to feature acts representative of bluegrass. Jon, would you say then that if a 'bad' bluegrass band gets booked at a festival, the potential bad impression that could be loosed upon an unexpecting audience is the fault of the promoter? Or does the onus fall upon the band itself? Seems to me this is where Anon's arguments fail. I think Anon's beef is much more with the organizers, promoters, and marketers of SXSW, but all the ire falls on the bands. I believe that ire is misplaced. And the ire especially seems directed at scenesters who dig the crappy stuff and don't dig/ignore/schooze during the "authentic" stuff like Hayseed.. Which is often the lament of a lot of people who can't understand why the American public continues to buy millions of albums from whatever million-selling performer they think sucks (i.e. Garth, Mariah, Celine). The main question I have is where are all these scenesters with straw hats and pigtail hairdos. Maybe I went to the wrong shows at SXSW 1998, but I don't think I saw a single person who fit that definition. I mostly saw the Slacker nation wardrobe of t-shirts and jeans, and maybe a couple of slightly better dressed industry sharpies. Nor have I seen it when I go to a NYC alt-country show. Is this aspiring sociologist blind to his social surroundings - or just too drunk to notice/care (g). Evan (still a little sleepy) btw, Kelly Willis was fantastic last night at the Iron Horse in Nhampton, Mass last night, as per usual. P2 Brothers Jeff and Kevin can testify further if need be. ~Greg, happy to have used the word onus, however inappropriately, in a post ___ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
RE: Mandy B
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Don Yates wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jon Weisberger wrote:
The definite oldies are "I've Got A Right To Cry" (Hank Jr.), "Give
Myself A Party" (Don Gibson), "Trademark" (Carl Smith), "Falling,
Falling, Falling" (Ray Price). I assume that the Newbury and Bryants
tunes are not new, but I dunno who the original performers would be.
The Newbury tune was a minor hit for Gibson. The original version's
pretty swell, but Mandy tops it. "I'm Gonna Change Everything" is an old
Jim Reeves song. "Who (Who Will It Be)" and "The Whispering Wind (Blows
On By)" are both new ones written by the same songwriters (L. Russell
Brown and Pat McLaughlin). *Someone* here has to know who did the
Boudleaux and Felice song ("Don't Forget To Cry"). Margasak sez "With My
Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming" is an old pop tune, so we'll take his word
for it. That leaves "Mistakes" (Edgar Leslie/Horatio Nicholls) and "Ever
True Evermore" (Kermit Goell/Theodore Rhodes). If I was to stereotype
songwriter names, I'd suggest they were both written by old-school pop
songwriters.--don
And it looks like I was right: "Ever True Evermore" was recorded by Patti
Page (as was "With My Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming"), and "Mistakes" was
recorded by Vera Lynn. That means we've managed to figure out the sources
for all of her obscure covers, 'cept for that damn Boudleaux and Felice
tune. I thought it might be easy to track that one down, but then I took
a look in the BMI on-line database at all the songs written by the Bryants
-- good god! I knew the Bryants were pretty damn prolific, but they were
songwriting machines!--don
Speaking of Noise
I've finally gotten around to listening to the Rykodisc reissue of the first Meat Puppets album - with 18 (!) bonus tracks - and I'm really digging it but I forgot how brutal it is at times. For those on the list who find Freakwater unlistenable - I'd be curious how long you'd listen to this before ripping it out of the CD player. Now, I realize that the Meat Puppets wave(d) their punk flag much higher than Freakwater ever has but I've always thought of both bands as rock and roll bands with country tendencies. Tony - who once upon a time lived on a steady diet of the Germs, Void, Discharge, Venom, Throbbing Gristle, SPK, James Chance and the Contortions, Half Japanese, and a boatload of other noise. Tony Lombardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] n.p. - Meat Puppets - Meat Puppets
Re: v-roys/bare jr.
Yes. Agreed. Bare Jr. play rock and I like rock. -Original Message- From: Steve Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 4:49 PM Subject: re: v-roys/bare jr. Chad said that he was reminded that the V-Roys were the best live band in America. I agree. He also said: Bare Jr. on the other hand made me feel old...even though I am not fairly young compared to the demographics of this list. They were pretty good, but they were SOOO LOUD and repetitive. I am still having a hard time really getting into the album cause so much of it sounds the same. I had the same problem with their live show. Bare Jr. makes me feel young. I absolutely love their album, and their live show (the first time they've played here) lived up to all my expectations. They were rocking hard on the very first song. It's nice to see a band give 1000% even when the gig is 75% empty. A friend of mine noticed how polarizing Bare Jr is, though, specifically with my friends here who often agree on music. Half of my friends LOVE them and half HATE them. I love 'em. Deaar postcarders, the guitarist was wearing pajamas, but they didn't have bunnys on them. Should I hate him? Please advise. :^) See ya. Steve -- == Steve Gardner * Sugar Hill Records Radio Promotion [EMAIL PROTECTED] * www.sugarhillrecords.com WXDU "Topsoil" * A Century of Country Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] * www.topsoil.net ==
Re: Speaking of Noise
Tony - who once upon a time lived on a steady diet of the Germs, Void, Discharge, Venom, Throbbing Gristle, SPK, James Chance and the Contortions, Half Japanese, and a boatload of other noise. Hurrah! Oops, I meant to say: Tony, you male chauvinist pig you. carl w. (and his three best female friends, all huge Caspar Brotzmann fans)
Re: Updates
so my advice to you is to avoid eating Malaysian food at that terrible place I've heard about, though I wouldn't counsel you to avoid that kind of food altogether. g I'll keep that in mind, Bill, and stick with pizza. Have a great weekend everybody...and Jon, make sure to crack the whip tonight on that slacker Purcell. If you don't keep an eye on him he'll be pulling a Warner Hodges and playing the guitar behind his back or with his teeth... Todd
RE: Updates
Greg, a/k/a "Mr. Onus," says: Jon, would you say then that if a 'bad' bluegrass band gets booked at a festival, the potential bad impression that could be loosed upon an unexpecting audience is the fault of the promoter? Or does the onus fall upon the band itself? Mostly the promoter, no doubt. Seems to me this is where Anon's arguments fail. I think Anon's beef is much more with the organizers, promoters, and marketers of SXSW, but all the ire falls on the bands. I don't think so; after all, Anon says: The MOST disturbing part of the whole SXSW experience was seeing music critics, label folks and radio programmers also eating these bands up like they were the new Merle Haggard [emphasis added]. Which pretty much echoes something that Bill Emerson, banjoist extraordinaire, told Bluegrass Unlimited a few years ago (I'm hunting for that Crowe rant): "The problem with bluegrass is that there's too much unprofessional bluegrass. It's a type of music that anybody can play anywhere. You don't have to have an amplifier or an AC power outletThat's not to say that anyone who's doing it is ready to make records and compete for the jobs at the bluegrass festivals. Anyone with a few thousand dollars can produce a recording and send it to radio stations. Program directors, recording executives and promoters should be careful about who they're putting out there to represent the bluegrass idiom. To help it grow we have to concentrate on the *best* music we have." BTW, Erin, that "compete for the jobs" clause is the fly in the ointment of your more-is-better argument. Half-assed musicians who figure that they can overcome the deficiency of being half as good by charging a quarter as much (an approach that promoters are all too often willing to sign on to) aren't any help to working musicians. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
RE: Updates
At 4:11 PM -0400 on 4/23/99, Jon Weisberger wrote: Ummm, who are these bands that are getting on the radio and turning newbies off of "altcountry"? I could name some pretty rotten Southern Ohio bluegrass bands That doesn't answer the question, which was about alt country... g Bob
Re: All The Way Downfor postcard2@u.washington.edu; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:03:46 -0500
WRONG. Read Nelson George's new book HIP HOP AMERICA and get yourself schooled...Def Jam records/russell simmons/rick rubin/NYC b-boying/breaking ground ZERO...while you're at it read BOMB THE SUBURBS by William Upski Wimsatt... See you at the Eminem show is Austin next week! xojns -- From: JP Riedie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: All The Way Down Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999, 3:44 PM And i said they are not making music from a hip-hop cultural perspective
AOTD (All-purpose quotation of the decade)? Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:09:58 -0400
In today's digest: Well, I'll stand in front of Rob Miller's fantastic jukebox there in his living room, in my best pair of overalls, with a haybale, and a feather boa drinking RC Cola, munching on a moon pie, and tell him Jr's right, and a whole bunch of references in the last couple of digests, and even more in the past So: I nominate Steve Earle for his AOTD Nina Melechen
Grow Fins
Was this dicussed already? Marie, this is particularly for you... Captain Beefheart His Magic Band Grow Fins: Rarities 1965-1992 5 CD Box set, 112-page hardcover book and Enhanced CD-Rom with rare concert performance footage or 1st of 3 double LPS on virgin vinyl, 24 page libretto in gatefold jackets. Street date 5/18 Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
Re: Cheap Trick (was Re: Chicago Calendar)
At 08:04 AM 4/23/99 -0700, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *6/15: RELS: Cheap Trick (live) I read somewhere (ICE, maybe) that this will be available exclusively through Amazon.com for like two months before its general release. Something about Amazon wanting to flex its muscles by getting an album on the charts on the basis of only Amazon sales. Yep, and totally pissing off brick and mortar locations who will still account for the overwhelming majority of the sales. Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
Re: Dwight Best of
At 01:22 PM 4/23/99 EDT, you wrote: In a message dated 4/23/99 10:19:37 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read in the Dallas paper yesterday that Dwight's version of "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" (from that Gap commercial) will appear on his new best of collection. Funny isn't it, that a song used exclusively for a TV commericial (thus far) falls under the category of "best of." I used to theink the British were so silly when a song used in a commercial would quickly enter their best selling sales chart thing. With things like the example above I realize they were just ahead of their time. Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
Tom T Hall tribute (SMTPD32-5.01) id A2AD7360142; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:22:37 EST
Can anyone fwd label/contact info on the recent Tom T tribute to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, it's needed for TwangCast Mike Hayshttp://www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.netFor the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
Grow Fins
Okay, here's the one I sorta proofed before sending... Was this discussed already? Marie, this is particularly for you... Captain Beefheart His Magic Band Grow Fins: Rarities 1965-1982 5 CD Box set, 112-page hardcover book and Enhanced CD-Rom with rare concert performance footage or 1st of 3 double LPS on virgin vinyl, 24 page libretto in gatefold jackets. Street date 5/18 Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
