Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 28/06/2024 18:42, Keith Bainbridge wrote: On 28/6/24 16:13, John Crawley wrote: Except that midnight is also 0:00, so you still have the am/pm confusion. They should have kept 0:00 just for midnight really. That's the first time I've seen anything to justify calling midnight AM. Thankyou

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 28/6/24 16:13, John Crawley wrote: Except that midnight is also 0:00, so you still have the am/pm confusion. They should have kept 0:00 just for midnight really. That's the first time I've seen anything to justify calling midnight AM. Thankyou But how can mid-day be after mid-day? Ah:

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 28/06/2024 14:00, Erwan DAVID wrote: Le 28 juin 2024 13:12:03 David Wright a écrit : On Wed 26 Jun 2024 at 12:50:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:25:38 -0500, John Hasler wrote: I wrote: 12 Noon and 12 Midnight works. David Wright wrote: Except that The Wan

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Le 28 juin 2024 13:12:03 David Wright a écrit : On Wed 26 Jun 2024 at 12:50:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:25:38 -0500, John Hasler wrote: > I wrote: > > 12 Noon and 12 Midnight works. > > David Wright wrote: > > Except that The Wanderer's "strictly correct" versi

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Wed 26 Jun 2024 at 12:50:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:25:38 -0500, John Hasler wrote: > > I wrote: > > > 12 Noon and 12 Midnight works. > > > > David Wright wrote: > > > Except that The Wanderer's "strictly correct" version, M for noon, > > > is out there in so

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:25:38 -0500, John Hasler wrote: > I wrote: > > 12 Noon and 12 Midnight works. > > David Wright wrote: > > Except that The Wanderer's "strictly correct" version, M for noon, > > is out there in some pre-2008 documents. > > If you use M for noon you should use either AM

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

I wrote: > 12 Noon and 12 Midnight works. David Wright wrote: > Except that The Wanderer's "strictly correct" version, M for noon, > is out there in some pre-2008 documents. If you use M for noon you should use either AM or PM for midnight. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 6/25/24 20:36, Keith Bainbridge wrote: On 23/6/24 23:22, e...@gmx.us wrote: I started using 24 hour time in junior high school with digital watches.  I just thought it made more sense, especially for setting alarms.  Several decades later I've not seen any reason to change, though it annoys

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

David Wright wrote: > On Mon 24 Jun 2024 at 17:12:18 (-0500), John Hasler wrote: > > The Wanderer writes: > > > (Similar logic could be used for 11:59:59 PM, 12:00 M, and > > > 12:00:01 AM, where the standalone M would stand for "midnight". > > > That does expose one unfortunate weakness of this

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 25/6/24 07:53, The Wanderer wrote: Although I don't think anything or anyone actually does it this way, I think strictly speaking the correct 12-hour notation for that time would be "12:00 M" - followed by 12:00:01 PM, and preceded by 11:59:59 AM. Sorry to repeat you - well you did it MUC

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 24/6/24 23:41, Erwan David wrote: AM/PM would not be so strange if between 11AM and 1 PM it was 12 AM ... Umm 12Meridian?? -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithr...@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 24/6/24 00:53, Curt wrote: On 2024-06-23, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: I think we are losing sight of the fact that all of timekeeping is an abstraction and over-generalization. Time zones were created to help regularize railroad schedules over wide areas. Timezones are an abstraction that pe

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 23:22, e...@gmx.us wrote: On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote: A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to t

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 18:57, Brad Rogers wrote: On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:35:14 +1000 Keith Bainbridge wrote: Hello Keith, +14:00?? I've only ever heard of maxima of +/- 12:00. AFAIAC, it was political willy waving, nothing more; To be 'first' into the new millennium. As if that has any cachet what

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 18:56, Brad Rogers wrote: On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 13:01:10 +1000 Keith Bainbridge wrote: Hello Keith, Not to mention some cultures change how words are spelt: colour, odour, metres to quote a few. Due, mainly, to the literacy of the people that moved, rather than any deliberate cho

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Well, The International BIPM writes the time with a colon: https://www.bipm.org/en/ Best Heriberto On Tuesday, June 25, 2024, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 24 Jun 2024 at 23:34:45 (+0800), Bret Busby wrote: >> On 24/6/24 21:41, Erwan David wrote: >> > Le 24/06/2024 à 22:38, Curt a écrit : > >> >

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Mon 24 Jun 2024 at 23:34:45 (+0800), Bret Busby wrote: > On 24/6/24 21:41, Erwan David wrote: > > Le 24/06/2024 à 22:38, Curt a écrit : > > > When my mom came to visit one time in the nineties she requested I > > > change my alarm clock to AM PM time (it is now 15:25 here in the Gallic > > > re

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Mon 24 Jun 2024 at 17:12:18 (-0500), John Hasler wrote: > The Wanderer writes: > > (Similar logic could be used for 11:59:59 PM, 12:00 M, and 12:00:01 AM, > > where the standalone M would stand for "midnight". That does expose one > > unfortunate weakness of this system: unless you introduce an

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 14:25:51 -0400, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: > So I have this digital clock up there in my panel, and in the virtual > machine here running Slackware I also have one. The one under Debian shows > 00:00 when it hits midnight, while the one under Slackware shows 12:00... >

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Monday 24 June 2024 05:53:00 pm The Wanderer wrote: > On 2024-06-24 at 09:41, Erwan David wrote: > > > AM/PM would not be so strange if between 11AM and 1 PM it was 12 AM > > ... > > Although I don't think anything or anyone actually does it this way, I > think strictly speaking the correct 12

Australia/Eucla timezone abbreviation (was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file)

On 25/06/2024 19:25, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: Greg Wooledge wrote: Here's another test: hobbit:~$ TZ=Australia/Eucla printf '%(%z %Z)T\n' -1 +0845 +0845 That seems like a bug. I'd have expected: +0845 ACWST It was an intentional change, "+0845" is the abbreviation. That time it c

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

✄ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2024 09:52:08 -0500 ←-- here! From: David Wright Subject: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file X-Original-To: deb...@lionunicorn.co.uk X-Original-To: lists-debian-u...@bendel.debian.org Reply-To: debian-user@lists.debian.org On Sat 22 Jun

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 13:25:10 +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: > Greg Wooledge wrote: > > Here's another test: > > > > hobbit:~$ TZ=Australia/Eucla printf '%(%z %Z)T\n' -1 > > +0845 +0845 > > That seems like a bug. I'd have expected: > > +0845 ACWST My guess is the time zone names a

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Greg Wooledge wrote: > Here's another test: > > hobbit:~$ TZ=Australia/Eucla printf '%(%z %Z)T\n' -1 > +0845 +0845 That seems like a bug. I'd have expected: +0845 ACWST

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 18:35:00 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > On 23/6/24 00:02, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > In mutt, it would be: > > > > set date_format="!It's %a %d%b%Y at %H:%M:%S here, where clocks are > > UTC%z" > > I believe UTC%Z will give the : > > as I get from my text expander.

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 00:52, David Wright wrote: Excellent. Now how do we get our MUA to do that when replying to mail, which is where I saw what I thought was a system error - but in fact was a misinterpretation. I don't see the point. The email has a "Date:" header. Sounds like I'm the only one who m

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 00:02, Greg Wooledge wrote: In mutt, it would be: set date_format="!It's %a %d%b%Y at %H:%M:%S here, where clocks are UTC%z" I believe UTC%Z will give the : as I get from my text expander. Tue 25Jun2024 at 18:34:20 =UTC +10:00 -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithr...@g

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 06:21:57PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2024-06-24 at 18:12, John Hasler wrote: > > > The Wanderer writes: > > > >> (Similar logic could be used for 11:59:59 PM, 12:00 M, and 12:00:01 AM, > >> where the standalone M would stand for "midnight". That does expose one > >> u

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 2024-06-24 at 18:12, John Hasler wrote: > The Wanderer writes: > >> (Similar logic could be used for 11:59:59 PM, 12:00 M, and 12:00:01 AM, >> where the standalone M would stand for "midnight". That does expose one >> unfortunate weakness of this system: unless you introduce an additional >> la

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

The Wanderer writes: > (Similar logic could be used for 11:59:59 PM, 12:00 M, and 12:00:01 AM, > where the standalone M would stand for "midnight". That does expose one > unfortunate weakness of this system: unless you introduce an additional > layer of complexity, e.g. using "00:00 M", the notatio

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 2024-06-24 at 09:41, Erwan David wrote: > AM/PM would not be so strange if between 11AM and 1 PM it was 12 AM > ... Although I don't think anything or anyone actually does it this way, I think strictly speaking the correct 12-hour notation for that time would be "12:00 M" - followed by 12:00:0

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 6/24/24 11:42, Bret Busby wrote: On 24/6/24 21:38, Curt wrote: You can become confused, though, when filling out US forms where the birth date is written M/D/Y instead of D/M/Y, and sometimes you have to be careful not commit the silly mistake that will entrain months of delay in intricate

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 24/6/24 21:38, Curt wrote: You can become confused, though, when filling out US forms where the birth date is written M/D/Y instead of D/M/Y, and sometimes you have to be careful not commit the silly mistake that will entrain months of delay in intricate *dédales* of the administration. Thi

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 24/6/24 21:41, Erwan David wrote: Le 24/06/2024 à 22:38, Curt a écrit : On 2024-06-23, gene heskett wrote: A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 y

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Le 24/06/2024 à 22:38, Curt a écrit : On 2024-06-23, gene heskett wrote: A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two 12

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 2024-06-24, Curt wrote: > On 2024-06-23, gene heskett wrote: >>> >> A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see >> transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I >> retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't >> convert back

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 2024-06-23, gene heskett wrote: >> > A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see > transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I > retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't > convert back to two 12 hour periods a day. The

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 08:41:51 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 23:25:43 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+14:00), which became a press > > story at the start of the new millennium. > > > > $ TZ=Pacific/Kiritamati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date >

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Brad Rogers writes: > Due, mainly, to the literacy of the people that moved, rather than any > deliberate choice. That is, spelling was often a 'best guess'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster's_Dictionary#Noah_Webster's_American_Dictionary_of_the_English_Language -- John Hasler j...@sugarb

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 2024-06-23, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > > I think we are losing sight of the fact that all of timekeeping is an > abstraction and over-generalization. Time zones were created to help > regularize railroad schedules over wide areas. Timezones are an abstraction > that permit us to _pretend_ that

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 6/23/24 09:23, e...@gmx.us wrote: On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote: A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote: A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two 12 hour periods a day. I started usi

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 23:25:43 -0500, David Wright wrote: > creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+14:00), which became a press > story at the start of the new millennium. > > $ TZ=Pacific/Kiritamati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date > Sun Jun 23 04:24:54 Pacific 2024 > Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 +0845 2024 > $

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:35:14 +1000 Keith Bainbridge wrote: Hello Keith, >+14:00?? I've only ever heard of maxima of +/- 12:00. AFAIAC, it was political willy waving, nothing more; To be 'first' into the new millennium. As if that has any cachet whatsoever. -- Regards _ "Valid sig

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 13:01:10 +1000 Keith Bainbridge wrote: Hello Keith, >Not to mention some cultures change how words are spelt: colour, odour, >metres to quote a few. Due, mainly, to the literacy of the people that moved, rather than any deliberate choice. That is, spelling was often a 'bes

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 6/23/24 01:35, Keith Bainbridge wrote: On 23/6/24 14:25, David Wright wrote: On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 12:52:55 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote: Have you ever pondered why the 'international date line' is so convoluted? Only on the odd occasion when an area decides to cross it, for whatever

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 12:18 AM David Wright wrote: > [...] > Well, that's a mouthful. And what am I to call the time that a system > issues using that system default time zone? The kernel clock counts ticks. The ticks are relative to Epoch, which is UTC. Ticks are what you see in the output of

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 14:25, David Wright wrote: On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 12:52:55 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote: Have you ever pondered why the 'international date line' is so convoluted? Only on the odd occasion when an area decides to cross it, for whatever reason. Like Samoa recently. And before th

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat 22 Jun 2024 at 12:31:41 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:52:39 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 07:15:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > If I boot up two computers > > > > and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your >

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat 22 Jun 2024 at 12:26:05 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:51:32 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Sat 22 Jun 2024 at 10:02:43 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > set date_format="!It's %a %d%b%Y at %H:%M:%S here, where clocks are > > > UTC%z" > > > I think you

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 12:52:55 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote: > Have you ever pondered why the 'international date line' is so convoluted? Only on the odd occasion when an area decides to cross it, for whatever reason. Like Samoa recently. And before that, the creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+1

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 00:53, David Wright wrote: Styles change: there's a tendency in English to evolve towards compound words, sometimes with hyphenation along the way. Not to mention some cultures change how words are spelt: colour, odour, metres to quote a few. But don't fret.Some people prono

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 12:08, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: On Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 11:02 AM Stefan Monnier > wrote: > Yes, I realise that. The times are being displayed by the gettys, > controlled by the /etc/issue format string.  Jobs are being run > by cron, log

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 23/6/24 01:16, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: Possible. I was happy to forget that I had anything to do with Windows 🙂 Especially delving into the registry -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithr...@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 11:02 AM Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Yes, I realise that. The times are being displayed by the gettys, > > controlled by the /etc/issue format string. Jobs are being run > > by cron, logs written by rsyslogd, and so on. And the term is … ? > > Maybe there simply isn't such a

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:52:39 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 07:15:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > If I boot up two computers > > > and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your > > > opinion to describe the time displayed? > > > > They're out of

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:51:32 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Sat 22 Jun 2024 at 10:02:43 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > set date_format="!It's %a %d%b%Y at %H:%M:%S here, where clocks are > > UTC%z" > I think you need to set attribution, not date_format. For example, > set attributio

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

> Yes, I realise that. The times are being displayed by the gettys, > controlled by the /etc/issue format string. Jobs are being run > by cron, logs written by rsyslogd, and so on. And the term is … ? Maybe there simply isn't such a term. The subject is sufficiently complex/delicate that there c

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:53:47AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 06:45:58 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote: [...] > > > I recall a checkbox do disable DST in Windows 95 or Windows 98, so perhaps > > > searching for a timezone without DST was not necessary. > > > > It's a log

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat 22 Jun 2024 at 18:35:34 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote: > On 21/6/24 14:28, David Wright wrote: > > You could pronounce your time written above as: > > > >"It's Thu 20Jun2024 at 20:51:19 here, where clocks are UTC+10:00" > > Excellent. Now how do we get our MUA to do that when replyin

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 06:45:58 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > > On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > "the system's > > > time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", > > > and others disagree 🙂

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 06:48:14 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 11:17:42PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Thu 20 Jun 2024 at 22:58:53 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > > > > On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxtea

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 07:15:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 23:17:42 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > And what am I to call the time that a system > > issues using that system default time zone? > > If you mean the current time translated into that time zone, "local time"

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat 22 Jun 2024 at 10:02:43 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 18:35:34 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > On 21/6/24 14:28, David Wright wrote: > > > You could pronounce your time written above as: > > > > > >"It's Thu 20Jun2024 at 20:51:19 here, where clocks are UTC+1

Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, 2024-06-22 at 18:11 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > On 18/6/24 00:56, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: > > Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > > On 16/6/24 23:50, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 06:13:36PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge > > > > wrote: > > > > > > It was late af

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 18:28:55 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > And doesn't this exchange show that > Sat 22Jun2024 at 18:27:55 +10:00 > > can be interpreted in two ways? I can only read it one way. What other way are you thinking of?

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 18:35:34 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > On 21/6/24 14:28, David Wright wrote: > > You could pronounce your time written above as: > > > >"It's Thu 20Jun2024 at 20:51:19 here, where clocks are UTC+10:00" > > Excellent. Now how do we get our MUA to do that when repl

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 21/6/24 14:28, David Wright wrote: You could pronounce your time written above as: "It's Thu 20Jun2024 at 20:51:19 here, where clocks are UTC+10:00" Excellent. Now how do we get our MUA to do that when replying to mail, which is where I saw what I thought was a system error - but in f

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 20/6/24 21:19, The Wanderer wrote: On 2024-06-20 at 07:10, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 21:00:38 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/manpages-dev/strftime.3.en.html is a list of place names for MANY parts of a date layout. I have set up th

Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 18/6/24 00:56, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: Keith Bainbridge wrote: On 16/6/24 23:50, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 06:13:36PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly 18:13:36 when I pressed send. I'd reckon it wo

Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 18/6/24 03:24, e...@gmx.us wrote: And I can never remember if the dot means AM or PM.  I suspect it changes between implementations, or maybe I'm just very slow. Probably only really meant to show us when we are setting an alarm at night, for the morning, that the dot is on one and off o

Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 18/6/24 01:36, David Wright wrote: Along with 350M Americans! They even use just A and P over here. And a mere dot on digital clocks. (I see you've changed it already!) I've been using 24 hour time and dMMM for a long time. I used send international cheques as part of my work, and dec

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 18/6/24 21:02, Greg Wooledge wrote: In a previous message, you thought that your system clock or your time zone was set wrong, because you read one of the attribution lines of one of my replies, and you thought it said you had sent your message at the wrong time. As it turns out, I'm fairly

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 10:22:53AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: [...] > I think, you are biased treating "system" as tightly built-in while most of > others assume "system-wide". Taking your bias out ("you are biased" -- "most of others") I'd tend to agree :-) You do have a point. Coming from the

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 21/06/2024 11:45, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: "the system's time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", and others disagree 🙂 What term is appropriate in your opin

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 23:17:42 -0500, David Wright wrote: > And what am I to call the time that a system > issues using that system default time zone? If you mean the current time translated into that time zone, "local time" is the traditional name for it. If you mean an arbitrary past time, th

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 11:17:42PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Thu 20 Jun 2024 at 22:58:53 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > > > On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: [...] > Well, that's a mouthful. And what am I to call the

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > "the system's > > time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", > > and others disagree 🙂 > > What term is appropriate in your opinion do describe the setting stor

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Thu 20 Jun 2024 at 21:00:38 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote: > On 17/6/24 18:26, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > > > It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly > > 18:13:36 when I pressed send. I'd reckon it would likely have been > > 08:13:36 UTC  What's wrong with my system c

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Thu 20 Jun 2024 at 22:58:53 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > > On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > "the system's > > > time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", > > > and others disagree 🙂 > >

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > "the system's > > time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", > > and others disagree 🙂 > > What term is appropriate in your opinion do describe the setting stored

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 20/06/2024 11:52, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: "the system's time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", and others disagree 🙂 What term is appropriate in your opinion do describe the setting stored as the /etc/localtime symlink? localtime(5) On 19/06/2024 11:37, to...

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 2024-06-20 at 07:10, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 21:00:38 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > >> https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/manpages-dev/strftime.3.en.html >> >> is a list of place names for MANY parts of a date layout. I have set up the >> following code in my text s

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 21:00:38 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/manpages-dev/strftime.3.en.html > > is a list of place names for MANY parts of a date layout. I have set up the > following code in my text substitution app: > "%a %d%b%Y at %H:%M:%S =UTC %Z" >

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 17/6/24 18:26, Keith Bainbridge wrote: It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly 18:13:36 when I pressed send. I'd reckon it would likely have been 08:13:36 UTC  What's wrong with my system clock. I've not really looked at the time on my originals before.  I'll try

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 01:22:31AM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 12:52 AM wrote: [...] > > Please, keep those three at a safe distance > > I'm not sure how you can disgorge them given they contribute to a > human readable time. I wasn't arguing to disgorge anything --

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 12:52 AM wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 01:01:44PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 7:09 AM Greg Wooledge wrote: > > [...] > > > > I strongly disagree. The system clock is kept on "epoch time", which > > > is the number of seconds since midnigh

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 01:01:44PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 7:09 AM Greg Wooledge wrote: [...] > > I strongly disagree. The system clock is kept on "epoch time", which > > is the number of seconds since midnight, January 1, 1970 UTC. > > > > The system clock doesn'

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

>> It's *theoretically* possible for some daemons to be configured to use >> a different time zone, or to be hard-coded to use UTC. I've never seen >> this, but it could be done. > In view of that, I think it's reasonable to drop the "default", > and go with "system time zone", ie the time zone th

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 7:09 AM Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 23:09:04 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Tue 18 Jun 2024 at 07:07:36 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 23:54:03 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > > What should I call the timezone of my comp

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 23:09:04 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Tue 18 Jun 2024 at 07:07:36 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 23:54:03 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > What should I call the timezone of my computer when it's booted up and > > > no users are logged in? > >

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 11:02:58PM -0500, David Wright wrote: [...] > > >set-timezone [TIMEZONE] > > >Set the system time zone [...] [...] > > I cringe a bit when I see that. > > See what, exactly? I can see three things, potentially. Especially that bit with the "system t

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue 18 Jun 2024 at 07:07:36 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 23:54:03 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > What should I call the timezone of my computer when it's booted up and > > no users are logged in? > > Daemons will almost always use the system's default time zone (the o

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue 18 Jun 2024 at 10:04:45 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 11:54:03PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Mon 17 Jun 2024 at 19:40:30 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 01:20:53PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > [...] > > > > > Time zones a

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 23:54:03 -0500, David Wright wrote: > What should I call the timezone of my computer when it's booted up and > no users are logged in? Daemons will almost always use the system's default time zone (the one specified by /etc/localtime or /etc/timezone). It's *theoretically*

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 18:26:39 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > I'm back. The kitchen clock says 18:05. the sun has set. I have no reason to > doubt the clock. So I'll answer Greg's questions > > > What does "date" say? Paste the entire output. > $>   date > Tue 18 Jun 2024 18:06:31 AEST > > >

Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On 17/6/24 21:22, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 06:26:19PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: On 16/6/24 23:50, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 06:13:36PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly 18:13:36 when I pr

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 4:05 AM wrote: > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 11:54:03PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > [...] > > $ date; timedatectl status > > Mon Jun 17 23:51:43 CDT 2024 > > Local time: Tue 2024-06-18 04:51:43 UTC > > Universal time: Tue 2024-06-18 04:51:43

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 11:54:03PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 17 Jun 2024 at 19:40:30 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 01:20:53PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: [...] > > > Time zones are not in effect for users, either; they're in effect for > > > processes [...

System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

On Mon 17 Jun 2024 at 19:40:30 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 01:20:53PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 18:22:29 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 09:14:38AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > > > > > You asked after you

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