Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
FOSS - Free Open Source Software OSS - Open Source Software Please note the word 'software' in both these. that is what we are talking about here. There are many other Free and/ or Open thingies in the world. We are not talking about them here. Further i find people who take the 'liberal' or 'broad' view never accomplish anything as they never take a stand. And especially on the subject of microsoft, I pride myself on the narrowness of my view. Kenneth this is too much. If you are making comment on yourself then it is fine else do not think everyone with liberal or broad view fail to accomplish anything. Example give by Janani has proven itself in a short span of one year that it is possible to have broad/liberal stand and accomplish bigger agendas. We had minor failure/problems here and there but we have overcome each time. Also, we are just geting started as far as creativedot is concerned. As for taking stace when it comes to M$ there are ample people in the list who had clear stance regarding M$. regards VK PS:- It will an honor for all of us if people can refrain making general comments on community as a whole. Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 1:43 PM, vivek khurana wrote: Kenneth this is too much. If you are making comment on yourself then it is fine else do not think everyone with liberal or broad view fail to accomplish anything. dont be silly - does creative dot take a broad liberal view and allow proprietary stuff there? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: the only question being asked here is 'should the community participate in conferences where microsoft is a sponsor' - and if it does, how does the community benefit? I believe there is a disconnect between what Kenneth is talking about and what others are talking about. We all (Kenneth included) believe that every company (even Microsoft) should have as much an opportunity as others to be at a FOSS event if it has something relevant to say. This is probably a point on which every body including LA, Anupam, Kenneth agree upon. Kenneth(and Me and others) goes beyond this argument with the following line - Microsoft has had enough opportunities to participate in FOSS in the time so far. Microsoft has announced its intentions and beliefs rather clearly everytime - it doesn't like GPL/Free software/Opensource, and it will go to any length to subvert this community/movement/industry. It has shown its subversive intentions this time too - by undermining Linux in a Linux event by ostentatiously participating to show their open source offerings, and then promoting their closed source software as an alternative. Given this rather long track record of Microsoft, we feel that it has no place in an Free/Open Source event of any nature. Its presence(leave alone sponsorship) itself undermines the event's credibility. It is because of this argument, that we are considering whether we should associate ourselves with any organization which doesn't feel the same way about our movement. And please, for those focusing on the practical side of Linux, it would be best that you stay away from this discussion. You obviously don't look at the larger picture. There would be no Linux/FOSS if people only focused on the practical side. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
dont be silly - does creative dot take a broad liberal view and allow proprietary stuff there? Yup, you can post work created using proprietary software as long as you have licensed copy of the software. And yes we have M$ executives as contributors too. regards VK Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
And please, for those focusing on the practical side of Linux, it would be best that you stay away from this discussion. You obviously don't look at the larger picture. There would be no Linux/FOSS if people only focused on the practical side. BS. F/OSS was doing great without all the marketing and hype surrounding it. No mega-event can ever beat the enthusiasm involved in a local LUG meet; where a small group of like-minded people get together and talk about what they like. Linux and other F/OSS were never made with the intention of pleasing the masses or for a market share, and it will always remain that way. Some corporates choose to use F/OSS because they've done their homework on what actually works for them; not because somebody presented them with a LINUX ROCKS pamphlet. I digress from the topic, but the bottom line is that F/OSS needs more people who can actually contribute to the development of F/OSS itself; not people who are blowing trumpets about how Linux is better than Windows. -- Anant ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 2:16 PM, vivek khurana wrote: Yup, you can post work created using proprietary software as long as you have licensed copy of the software. And yes we have M$ executives as contributors too. thats not what i said - i asked if you permit no-sharing, copy- protect, no-copying, no-distribution? according to this: http://creative.linux-delhi.org/?q=node/2 you dont. Why dont you allow that also. Why restrict to just these 12 licenses? Be liberal. Invite everyone in - you will flourish, maybe even micorsoft will fund you -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: the only question being asked here is 'should the community participate in conferences where microsoft is a sponsor' - and if it does, how does the community benefit? I believe there is a disconnect between what Kenneth is talking about and what others are talking about. We all (Kenneth included) believe that every company (even Microsoft) should have as much an opportunity as others to be at a FOSS event if it has something relevant to say. This is probably a point on which every body including LA, Anupam, Kenneth agree upon. Agreed. Kenneth(and Me and others) goes beyond this argument with the following line - Microsoft has had enough opportunities to participate in FOSS in the time so far. Microsoft has announced its intentions and beliefs rather clearly everytime - it doesn't like GPL/Free software/Opensource, and it will go to any length to subvert this community/movement/industry. It has shown its subversive intentions this time too - by undermining Linux in a Linux event by ostentatiously participating to show their open source offerings, and then promoting their closed source software as an alternative. Given this rather long track record of Microsoft, we feel that it has no place in an Free/Open Source event of any nature. Its presence(leave alone sponsorship) itself undermines the event's credibility. I don't agree to this. As I've already pointed out. Microsoft's presence can only negatively affect a Linux event as much as we let it. That Microsoft's presence would undermine any Linux event's credibility is a myth that I'd like to see broken as soon as possible. Whenever I see a big computing conference being publicized I always wishing that somehow Linux and FOSS manage to grab some sound bytes right along with the big closed source boys. When I see MS employees on a Vista publicity campaign, and users being captivated by the 3d opengl based interface, I wish someone shows these people XGL and Compiz running on Linux and makes it a known fact that you can have everything Vista *promises* and more, on their desktops, right now, without costs or licenses. In short I wish for an equal stage, free of FUD, and it's clear that Microsoft is too scared to provide one. So when it comes to Microsoft advertising in Linux magazines and sponsoring Linux events, where you see red, I see an opportunity, of an equal footing, at Microsoft's expense. Linux and FOSS is clearly better than Windows, we just need to cut through MS's FUD. Mailing Lists will not do that for the average Joe, such collaborative events will. It is because of this argument, that we are considering whether we should associate ourselves with any organization which doesn't feel the same way about our movement. And please, for those focusing on the practical side of Linux, it would be best that you stay away from this discussion. You obviously don't look at the larger picture. There would be no Linux/FOSS if people only focused on the practical side. Not true. Linus is another one of those practical side people, who had created Linux without any philosophy in mind. I totally agree that without RMS and FSF and GNU and all the big picture people we would not be where we are today but without the practical people we would all still be hacking on a huge bunch of loosely coupled GNU utilities wrapped around a commercial closed source kernel, waiting for GNU Mach to make an appearance. There would be no KDE, only a Gnome which would have been but a shell of it's formidable capabilities now (because I believe much of the impetus for Gnome's development came from KDE's success, I may be wrong but let's not debate that, it's seriously OT). For programming we would probably have a choice between C and Lisp and for editors between Emacs and Vi. Oh and the Linux user community would probably be in tens (or at max hundreds) of thousands instead of millions as is the case today, and Microsoft would be too busy promoting Windows 2007 to be wasting time sponsoring Linux events. Yes Sir, in the world inhabited solely by the big picture people things would be all too rosy and everyone would be happy. You and me, as happy as we can be, the happy hapless people stuck with Windows who wouldn't even realise what *could have been* and yes, the happiest of all would have been Microsoft. Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
thats not what i said - i asked if you permit no-sharing, copy- protect, no-copying, no-distribution? according to this: http://creative.linux-delhi.org/?q=node/2 you dont. Why dont you allow that also. Why restrict to just these 12 licenses? Be liberal. Invite everyone in - you will flourish, maybe even micorsoft will fund you mind reading this before posting such suggestion http://creative.linux-delhi.org/?q=node/20 no-copying, no-sharing, no-distribution will turn creativedot into a museum for display of creative work, something no user is interested. Please explain to me how can i implement no-copying license when everytime a user clicks on a photograph to view? Whenever a browser opens an image, it effectively copies image file on to computers temp file. Now you might say we should implement DRM to allow no-sharing, no-copying and no-distribution which will go against the basis of creativedot. Liberal/broad view does not means you allow anything. We allow broad range of licenses and broad range of creative work. We are not a website for hosting photographs only or for hosting music only. We allow publication creative work in any digital format as long as work published can be accessed/modified under any platform with requiring any special proprietary software. That means you cannot post pictures in a format which can be edited by photoshock only. As for funding, the concept of funding in terms of Money does not exist with creativedot yet. We accept donation in terms of webspace, technical inputs, man hours (we love dedicated man hours) and soon will require donation in terms of software code under GPL (Ok you may count it as man hours). We dont have any plan to accept monetary funding in foreseeable future. So, if you were thinking M$ will fund us with money, I will have to disappoint you here. Btw, you might be interested in trying Jannani's recipes published under creativedot. regards VK PS:- we are looking for funders who can donate us a server and monthly bandwidth, in case you know someone who can help us do let us know. Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
So when it comes to Microsoft advertising in Linux magazines and sponsoring Linux events, where you see red, I see an opportunity, of an equal footing, at Microsoft's expense. Linux and FOSS is clearly better than Windows, we just need to cut through MS's FUD. Mailing Lists will not do that for the average Joe, such collaborative events will. In LUG style, +1 I totally agree! Who had the stalls next to Microsoft at LinuxAsia? Did they use it well? (Apologies, I couldn't attend LA as I was busy getting married, so somebody who attended please throw light on this!!) CXOSummit had an audience of stakeholders and decision-makers, many of whom would have attended the expo as well... so, now wasn't this a platform to show Vista and Red Hat/SUSE/BOSS or whatever distro you place your bet on right next to it... on both sides of Microsoft's booth... so, the users could have seen with their own eyes that Linux and OSS work just as well as the Microsoft products they are so used to? Call it a flat world, a level playing field, whatever you will, but the only way a product (or philosophy) can survive is by competing with others! By making open source a cult rather than a philosophy and expecting people to adopt it, you only lose opportunities to gain more followers. Rather than expect everybody to understand, absorb and live by the principles of free and open source right in the beginning, first show them the produce! Show them that Linux and FOSS works not only for the geek but for the desktop user too, show them it works for businesses, show them it works just as well as what M$ sells. Once they see the merit in the products, they will automatically adopt the ideals as well... not vice versa. There are more people who are drawn to a religion from its customs than the other way round! And well, if you see something as a rival (or well, an enemy) then stand right next to them and say, We are better! rather than block them away from the scene. Makes me wonder... M$ dared to bravely step into alien turf (well knowing that most attendees at LA are going to be Linux followers and not Microsoft fans... think, if somebody stood in front of the Microsoft stall and loudly argued with the rep there about the merits of Linux, how many people do you think would have objected... now, that's a hazard M$ could have faced), but we hesitate to give them a small place to stand in our ground? Doesn't it show the community's doubt in its own abilities? Do you think any of the saadhus at the Kumbh Mela will worry about Christian, Muslim or Buddhist missionaries attending? You cannot convert a staunch follower! And for those who're not staunch followers, Linux/FOSS stands a better chance when placed right next to Microsoft and projected as superior in comparison! Look beyond religion at humanity. Look beyond Linux/FOSS at technology. Because that's how the hoi-polloi sees it! Only when you see the broader picture can you prove yourself in that vast world! Cheers, Janani ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 3:26 PM, vivek khurana wrote: Liberal/broad view does not means you allow anything. ahh - we are on the same side and saying the same thing. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 2:51 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: Not true. Linus is another one of those practical side people, who had created Linux without any philosophy in mind. where did you discover this gem? or is it your own invention? Have you read any of his writings? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Steve jobs on abolishing DRM
Hi! all, Steve jobs suggests abolishing DRM in a recently published article at apple's website more at http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/ regards VK Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
Janani Gopalakrishnan wrote: Who had the stalls next to Microsoft at LinuxAsia? Did they use it well? (Apologies, I couldn't attend LA as I was busy getting married, so somebody who attended please throw light on this!!) I don't know about who was next to M$'s stall, I know who was there opposite to it - it was us NRCFOSS. ;) so, now wasn't this a platform to show Vista and Red Hat/SUSE/BOSS or whatever distro you place your bet on right next to it... on both sides of Microsoft's booth... so, the users could have seen with their own eyes that Linux and OSS work just as well as the Microsoft products they are so used to? Why should some one put up a stall and show people about Vista - they have already (tried) seen it, and most of them came back to *pirated* windows XP. I personally dont believe in comparing GNU/Linux with Windows or even Mac. Some may argue that for an *end user* its all same, no they are not. Similar eye candies don't make them similar. Rather than expect everybody to understand, absorb and live by the principles of free and open source right in the beginning, first show them the produce! Show them that Linux and FOSS works not only for the geek but for the desktop user too, show them it works for businesses, show them it works just as well as what M$ sells. They will understand that Linux is 'free as in free beer' if they have bought their Windows for money. In a world where pirated stuff is common, we need philosophy more. Makes me wonder... M$ dared to bravely step into alien turf (well knowing that most attendees at LA are going to be Linux followers and not Microsoft fans... think, if somebody stood in front of the Microsoft stall and loudly argued with the rep there about the merits of Linux, how many people do you think would have objected... now, that's a hazard M$ could have faced), but we hesitate to give them a small place to stand in our ground? Nope. 1. In an Linux or OSS conference, you expect OSS products to be displayed. Not something which every one had been seeing it for years, having pirated copies in their homes. 2. They were tagged as 'Interoperability' partners and what people expected from them was some display of the same. Nobody expected Vista over there (though every one know thats all they can display in a M$ stall), including me. 3. We were too tempted to know what 'interoperability' they meant were all about, so we went to the M$ stall and enquired what they were having there for display on a Linux conference. The answer was we have a presentation running, you can see that. On the other hand, other stalls like Collabnet, Spike Source, Turbo Linux, etc were kind enough to explain in detail about their product, answer all queries and even open to some criticisms. The people posted at the M$ stall were not techies and were not even able to tell what they had displayed in their stall. We dont expect the reply check the power point presentation when some one eager enough to know something about their presence approaches. 4. Some (around 10) students, who were interacting in our stall, did ask me what M$ was doing in a Linux Conference and whether M$ had any Linux or Open Source products being displayed ? 5. We, all those who from the community has been talking against M$ participation in LA, are people who attend most of the other FOSS conferences. We think that FOSS conference is a place where we get introduced to, or improve our knowledge about FOSS. Where we can socialize within our community and where new endeavors begin. For that matter, foss.in was far better place for the FOSS community and if it is true that M$ really wanted to display their product in a Linux/FOSS Conference, it should have been Foss.in rather as there were more stalls for FOSS products and where a major portion of the community was present as well as many non-Indian FOSS Developers as well. -- With Regards Parthan (TechnoFreak) . A Proud GNU/Linux User and Ubuntero .0. ..0 [Web] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Parthan 000 [Blog]http://technofreakatchennai.wordpress.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08-Feb-07, at 2:51 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: Not true. Linus is another one of those practical side people, who had created Linux without any philosophy in mind. where did you discover this gem? or is it your own invention? Have you read any of his writings? Kenneth which statement is it that you object to? All I'm saying is that Linus was in a more practical than philosophical mood when he started working on Linux, do you really doubt that? Do we have to argue on everything. Oh well.. Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 00:30 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: [...] I have mixed views on Microsoft's participation in the event. Personally, I feel that it is up to LFY to decide. Given that Linux Asia is by no stretch of the imagination a community event, and, the name notwithstanding, is hardly a beacon for the promotion of free software, I see no reason for us to get overly exercised. Well even if Linux Asia was important to FOSS, I'd still find no reason to get excited. I liked ILUGD better when it wasn't committee-ised and decisions were not taken by individuals for the whole LUG. The freedom to fork is good but not the decision to do so on the slightest of provocation. It's not prudent to fragment the community like this. However, I will take strong exception to this snark, as you have been repeating this baseless canard. Would you clarify what exactly you mean by ...committee-ised and decisions were not taken by individuals for the whole LUG, and what was your basis for making that rather dramatic accusation? As has been intimated on this list, the decision not to participate was made by voting among people present at ILUG-D meetings, and was made before we were aware of Microsoft participation. Though some people in ILUG-D have strong viewpoints on this, there was no fatwa issued against participation, and, in fact, many ILUG-D members apparently did participate, and some even enjoyed it. Please substantiate your allegations, or post a public retraction. Now I have been totally misunderstood it seems. I never said anyone was pressurized not to go. Just that for me ILUGD has been primarily this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. I don't care usually except that in this case I think the decision was very wrong, something that would not have been so casually taken had there been a real free-for-all discussion on the same. My ILUGD boycotting a Linux event! Really! MS or no MS, that's a bit much. Please don't take it personally, I'm not saying I could have taken a better decision. I'm saying *we* all could have. Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, nipra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 2/8/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 00:30 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: [snip] I liked ILUGD better when it wasn't committee-ised and decisions were not taken by individuals for the whole LUG. The freedom to fork is good but not the decision to do so on the slightest of provocation. It's not prudent to fragment the community like this. [snip] Please substantiate your allegations, or post a public retraction. +1 Is that even allowed? I don't see a rule saying it isn't. Anyways the count is back to zero ;) Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, nipra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 2/8/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 00:30 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: [snip] I liked ILUGD better when it wasn't committee-ised and decisions were not taken by individuals for the whole LUG. The freedom to fork is good but not the decision to do so on the slightest of provocation. It's not prudent to fragment the community like this. [snip] Please substantiate your allegations, or post a public retraction. +1 Forgot to add the -1 :) -1 Is that even allowed? I don't see a rule saying it isn't. Anyways the count is back to zero ;) Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 4:28 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: where did you discover this gem? or is it your own invention? Have you read any of his writings? Kenneth which statement is it that you object to? All I'm saying is that Linus was in a more practical than philosophical mood when he started working on Linux, do you really doubt that? Do we have to argue on everything. Oh well.. there is a misconception spread that stallman is the fount of all philosophy and does nothing but talk and guys like linus and guido et al are mere code monkeys without a world view. This is not true. Firstly stallman is a brilliant programmer and secondly the others all have a world view and are capable of philosophising in their own right. In fact in the very process of producing and sharing software, all foss/oss people get a world view and a big picture. And anyone without a clear picture of the thrill of sharing is a big zero in the foss/oss world. Which comes back to my main point: FOSS/OSS conferencces are in the last analysis about sharing - code, ideas, dreams, whatever. And no one who doesnt want to share should be allowed in. Thats it. All the other big talk of openness, level playing field, chance to challenge blah blah blah means nothing - dont want to share? keep out. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 4:38 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. not so - agenda is always disclosed on the list. discussion is asked for. Even for 'committee meetings' all are invited. And decision is by majority. Minutes and list of attendees are also always posted on the list. You need to retract. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08-Feb-07, at 4:38 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. not so - agenda is always disclosed on the list. discussion is asked for. Even for 'committee meetings' all are invited. And decision is by majority. Minutes and list of attendees are also always posted on the list. You need to retract. Even so, I still think the informality of ILUGD was better. Much of my comment was in direct reaction to the someone pointing out that it was time for LA and ILUGD to part ways permanently, for reasons that are still not very convincing. If the ILUGD was an informal group such a thing would probably not have even popped up. I stand by what I said and you people are looking too much into it. There is hardly a need to retract opinions clearly marked as such (remember I opened with I liked ILUGD better not ILUGD was better...). Anyways that is not even the main point of that supposedly objectionable paragraph. The main point was that fragmenting the community for no reason is not welcome! Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 5:19 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: Anyways that is not even the main point of that supposedly objectionable paragraph. The main point was that fragmenting the community for no reason is not welcome! where is the fragmentation - do you contend that LFY is part of the community? Even they dont contend it -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08-Feb-07, at 4:38 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. not so - agenda is always disclosed on the list. discussion is asked for. Even for 'committee meetings' all are invited. And decision is by majority. Minutes and list of attendees are also always posted on the list. You need to retract. what Anupam has said is common of any democracy including India where the people who never vote are the most vocal critics of any decision. IMHO ILUGD should introduce postal ballots so that people can influence the majority opinion without actually taking the trouble to be part of the majority. Regards Sriram ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08-Feb-07, at 4:28 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: where did you discover this gem? or is it your own invention? Have you read any of his writings? Kenneth which statement is it that you object to? All I'm saying is that Linus was in a more practical than philosophical mood when he started working on Linux, do you really doubt that? Do we have to argue on everything. Oh well.. there is a misconception spread that stallman is the fount of all philosophy and does nothing but talk and guys like linus and guido et al are mere code monkeys without a world view. This is not true. It may be a very popular misconception, but it is not one *I* harbour. Firstly stallman is a brilliant programmer and secondly the others all have a world view and are capable of philosophising in their own right. In fact in the very process of producing and sharing software, all foss/oss people get a world view and a big picture. And anyone without a clear picture of the thrill of sharing is a big zero in the foss/oss world. Which comes back to my main point: FOSS/OSS conferencces are in the last analysis about sharing - code, ideas, dreams, whatever. And no one who doesnt want to share should be allowed in. Thats it. All the other big talk of openness, level playing field, chance to challenge blah blah blah means nothing - dont want to share? keep out. And I think FOSS is all about the community. And the community welcomes participation. I somehow feel something's amiss when we start banning people and organisations from any of Linux/FOSS events, because their contributions to the community are debatable. Besides it's fun to watch a hardcore windows fan see a Linux demo and exclaim that he didn't think such things were even possible! The pro windows crowd visiting Linux events offers perspective and opinions and comes fully vulnerable to a Shining Linux onslaught! Isn't that good enough? Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08-Feb-07, at 4:38 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. not so - agenda is always disclosed on the list. discussion is asked for. Even for 'committee meetings' all are invited. And decision is by majority. Minutes and list of attendees are also always posted on the list. You need to retract. what Anupam has said is common of any democracy including India where the people who never vote are the most vocal critics of any decision. IMHO ILUGD should introduce postal ballots so that people can influence the majority opinion without actually taking the trouble to be part of the majority. You meant to be satirical but I think your suggestion is an excellent one! Well during election times do you see people being asked to come to Delhi and visit the Rashtrapati Bhavan in case they want to be a part of the electoral process? Before taking any decision, you do not take a decision and inform the members of the same, you give the members the details of the situation and ask for their opinion and continue to do so until some semblance of a consensus on a possible course of action emerges. Especially for ILUGD which started out as a mailing list, why have voting / decision-making behind closed doors. It's not very difficult to have an online voting setup, why don't we have that? Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I think FOSS is all about the community. And the community welcomes participation. I somehow feel something's amiss when we start banning people and organisations from any of Linux/FOSS events, because their contributions to the community are debatable. Besides it's fun to watch a hardcore windows fan see a Linux demo and exclaim that he didn't think such things were even possible! The pro windows crowd visiting Linux events offers perspective and opinions and comes fully vulnerable to a Shining Linux onslaught! Isn't that good enough? Regards, Anupam Jain what makes you think that the pro windows crowd will come only if M$ sponsors an linux event. we can wow the pro windows crowd even without having M$ as the main sponsor. what kind of perspective and opinions do u think a pro windows user who is viewing linux for the first time can provide on linux. maybe u might consider shipping solitaire and freecell withe all distros to make them feel t home. I dont think any community welcomes 100% participation. communities are made up of like minded people so the right of admission is usually reserved Regards Sriram ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 5:48 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: part of the electoral process? Before taking any decision, you do not take a decision and inform the members of the same, who did that - you are just spreading wild untrue allegations you give the members the details of the situation and ask for their opinion and continue to do so until some semblance of a consensus on a possible course of action emerges. thats what they did Especially for ILUGD which started out as a mailing list, why have voting / decision-making behind closed doors. It's not very difficult to have an online voting setup, why don't we have that? because a bunch of useless gaspots will take control - any one too lazy to turn up for a meeting is unfit to vote -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You meant to be satirical but I think your suggestion is an excellent one! Well during election times do you see people being asked to come to Delhi and visit the Rashtrapati Bhavan in case they want to be a part of the electoral process? Before taking any decision, you do not take a decision and inform the members of the same, you give the members the details of the situation and ask for their opinion and continue to do so until some semblance of a consensus on a possible course of action emerges. Especially for ILUGD which started out as a mailing list, why have voting / decision-making behind closed doors. It's not very difficult to have an online voting setup, why don't we have that? Regards, Anupam Jain Do u see any democracy having online voting. only opinion polls are conducted online and we are not talking about opinion polls here. People are not asked to come to Delhi but they are expected to queue up at the polling booth before they cast thier vote behind closed doors. where does voting happen in the open even an open ballot happens behind closed doors . all decision-making happens behind closed doors because you elected the representatives. next u might want to invited to cabinet meetings. Regards Sriram ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 5:41 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: philosophy and does nothing but talk and guys like linus and guido et al are mere code monkeys without a world view. This is not true. It may be a very popular misconception, but it is not one *I* harbour. then why are you spreading it? And I think FOSS is all about the community. And the community welcomes participation. you still havent understood - FOSS is about sharing - not community. And it welcomes participation in sharing not participation per se I somehow feel something's amiss when we start banning people and organisations from any of Linux/FOSS events, because their contributions to the community are debatable. contributions of microsoft to the community are not debatable. They are nil. But their contributions against the community are legion -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: contributions of microsoft to the community are not debatable. They are nil. But their contributions against the community are legion they contributed the line return 0; to linux code. :-) Regards Sriram ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You meant to be satirical but I think your suggestion is an excellent one! Well during election times do you see people being asked to come to Delhi and visit the Rashtrapati Bhavan in case they want to be a part of the electoral process? Before taking any decision, you do not take a decision and inform the members of the same, you give the members the details of the situation and ask for their opinion and continue to do so until some semblance of a consensus on a possible course of action emerges. Especially for ILUGD which started out as a mailing list, why have voting / decision-making behind closed doors. It's not very difficult to have an online voting setup, why don't we have that? Regards, Anupam Jain Do u see any democracy having online voting. only opinion polls are conducted online and we are not talking about opinion polls here. I prefer opinion polls to no polls at all. I'm not saying make the poll decision binding, all I'm saying is let all voices be heard. Is there any harm in providing another platform for people to raise their voices? Anyways let me not keep on defending myself. I feel there could have been more community participation within ILUGD itself, that's all. And I'm open to all methods for doing the same. I think this thread is going seriously off track. Is anyone else tired? Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: contributions of microsoft to the community are not debatable. They are nil. But their contributions against the community are legion they contributed the line return 0; to linux code. :-) nope.. thats KR contribution!! Karunakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08-Feb-07, at 4:38 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. not so - agenda is always disclosed on the list. discussion is asked for. Even for 'committee meetings' all are invited. And decision is by majority. Minutes and list of attendees are also always posted on the list. You need to retract. what Anupam has said is common of any democracy including India where the people who never vote are the most vocal critics of any decision. IMHO ILUGD should introduce postal ballots so that people can influence the majority opinion without actually taking the trouble to be part of the majority. You meant to be satirical but I think your suggestion is an excellent one! Well during election times do you see people being asked to come to Delhi and visit the Rashtrapati Bhavan in case they want to be a part of the electoral process? Before taking any decision, you do not take a decision and inform the members of the same, you give the members the details of the situation and ask for their opinion and continue to do so until some semblance of a consensus on a possible course of action emerges. Especially for ILUGD which started out as a mailing list, why have voting / decision-making behind closed doors. It's not very difficult to have an online voting setup, why don't we have that? Well if 1000 votes go in favour (by fence sitters) of participating a 20 votes against it..by folks who are actually in delhi will have to ultimately do the show...do all the hard work.. just for the sake that ..a 1000 lazy bums had time to to click on Yes !! Doesnt sound too good!!! Karunakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08-Feb-07, at 4:38 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. not so - agenda is always disclosed on the list. discussion is asked for. Even for 'committee meetings' all are invited. And decision is by majority. Minutes and list of attendees are also always posted on the list. You need to retract. Even so, I still think the informality of ILUGD was better. Much of my comment was in direct reaction to the someone pointing out that it was time for LA and ILUGD to part ways permanently, for reasons that are still not very convincing. If the ILUGD was an informal group such a thing would probably not have even popped up. I stand by what I said and you people are looking too much into it. There is hardly a need to retract opinions clearly marked as such (remember I opened with I liked ILUGD better not ILUGD was better...). Wait you are confusing two entities - LUG - Linux User Group - the registered society...where a committee takes decisions (you have to pay a small fee to be registered member of this organization.. though objectives of this entity are while being same as ILUGD but much more too...(as specified in the MOA). ILUGD - the unofficial group.. comprising folks on mailing lists..quite informal.. anyone has a say as long as they do it in it right time (when opinions are called for).. place (ILUGD meeting/list).. Anyways that is not even the main point of that supposedly objectionable paragraph. The main point was that fragmenting the community for no reason is not welcome! by default the way a community is made (of individuals) its fragmented.. what cements it is the common views/ideas/philosophy shared.. Karunakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 16:38 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: On 2/8/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 00:30 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: [...] I liked ILUGD better when it wasn't committee-ised and decisions were not taken by individuals for the whole LUG. The freedom to fork is good but not the decision to do so on the slightest of provocation. It's not prudent to fragment the community like this. [...] Now I have been totally misunderstood it seems. How so? Please re-read your above statement, specifically the part about ...decisions were not taken by individuals for the whole LUG. That is a claim of fact, and not an expression of opinion. I see little room for misunderstanding, but maybe my comprehension of English is inadequate. If you cannot bother to stand by what you publicly declare, I see no point in continuing this discussion. I never said anyone was pressurized not to go. That was only part of my quibble with what you said. Please do not try to weasel out of replying to the main thrust of my comment. Just that for me ILUGD has been primarily this mailing list and I did not see a very public discussion on the mailing list before everything was done and over. When was discussion on the mailing list ever a requirement? As a legally constituted body, the only thing that has any standing is a vote in meetings, unless the rules are changed to accommodate what you suggest. By all means, public discussion on the mailing list is a good goal, but people do not always have the time to ensure this. Please come to a meeting, vote for such a change in voting rules, and work to make it happen. That would be welcome, while pontificating on the list is less so. The committee related decisions of ILUGD have been mostly off the list. And you know this how, exactly? Clairvoyance? I don't care usually except that in this case I think the decision was very wrong, something that would not have been so casually taken had there been a real free-for-all discussion on the same. My ILUGD boycotting a Linux event! Really! MS or no MS, that's a bit much. I will repeat it once more as you seemed determined to ignore this. The reasons for not participating in LA2007 were discussed at the meeting, passed by a voice vote, and the same was communicated to this list. Microsoft participation had absolutely nothing to do with it, as we were not aware of that at the time. You have yet to address the reason that ILUG-D chose not to participate. Please don't take it personally, I'm not saying I could have taken a better decision. I'm saying *we* all could have. If you are serious about this *we*, and about My ILUGD you should be participating in ILUG-D meetings. Else, it is all just hot air. Regards, Gora ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [Starting a new thread] On Thursday 08 February 2007 17:48, Anupam Jain wrote: [snip] You meant to be satirical but I think your suggestion is an excellent one! Well during election times do you see people being asked to come to Delhi and visit the Rashtrapati Bhavan in case they want to be a part of the electoral process? Before taking any decision, you do not take a decision and inform the members of the same, you give the members the details of the situation and ask for their opinion and continue to do so until some semblance of a consensus on a possible course of action emerges. Especially for ILUGD which started out as a mailing list, why have voting / decision-making behind closed doors. It's not very difficult to have an online voting setup, why don't we have that? There is no decision-making behind closed doors. Just because we didn't send a goddam chauffeur-driven limousine to your door to pick you up, bring you to the meetings that were announced on the list and solicit your valuable opinion doesn't mean that decisions were made behind closed doors, however much you may try to twist what everyone is saying to suit your own warped view of reality. I'd suggest you put up (substantiate what you're saying) or shut up; in other words, kindly shut up, since I can see no possible way you could manufacture any proof that ILUGD is acting in an undemocratic fashion. And yes, if you'd been present at the meeting you would have known that an online discussion and vote about participating in LA was considered and rejected since the time frames for making the decision were too short. For $deity's sake, it's been a week since the event and we're still discussing whether MS participation is a good thing or not -- what makes you think that an online discussion and vote with one day to make a decision would have been at all effective? That decision was made with the members present and I will stand behind that decision until the end -- if you weren't present for whatever reason you have no right to whine about it later. Anupam, I strongly suggest you stick to your points on MS participation and leave your views about ILUGD functioning out of the discussion since you only seem to be convincing people further and further of your stupidity every time you open your mouth on that subject. - -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFyynMyWjQ78xo0X8RAsQUAJ9Xjx7YxSYIhr88SoZkjSYEyF9OJwCaAyhC bmZvPIE9K8Ptqby0W+/5NPQ= =tyak -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
On 2/8/07, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [Starting a new thread] Excellent. On Thursday 08 February 2007 17:48, Anupam Jain wrote: [snip] You meant to be satirical but I think your suggestion is an excellent one! Well during election times do you see people being asked to come to Delhi and visit the Rashtrapati Bhavan in case they want to be a part of the electoral process? Before taking any decision, you do not take a decision and inform the members of the same, you give the members the details of the situation and ask for their opinion and continue to do so until some semblance of a consensus on a possible course of action emerges. Especially for ILUGD which started out as a mailing list, why have voting / decision-making behind closed doors. It's not very difficult to have an online voting setup, why don't we have that? There is no decision-making behind closed doors. Just because we didn't send a goddam chauffeur-driven limousine to your door to pick you up, bring you to the meetings that were announced on the list and solicit your valuable opinion doesn't mean that decisions were made behind closed doors, however much you may try to twist what everyone is saying to suit your own warped view of reality. I'd suggest you put up (substantiate what you're saying) or shut up; in other words, kindly shut up, since I can see no possible way you could manufacture any proof that ILUGD is acting in an undemocratic fashion. I don't need to substantiate anything. I never said that ILUGD was undemocratic. My hypothesis was a very weak one, namely ILUGD could do with having more openness. Anything in the world could do with more openness so it is not really something you would oppose. If you misread between the lines so far as to see allegations of undemocratic behaviour then it is your warped view of reality, not mine. Now that we have established that my allegations were not really so, I stand by whatever I said fully because I did not see a public discussion on this topic *before* the event. It may have been due to valid reasons (you say you had only a day to respond, which is a very valid reason) but the fact remains. And it is not really relevant but I have been living in Bangalore for over a year now (and many places elsewhere the year before that). So it is not really possible for me to be a part of the meetings anymore. I'm not sure if that fact makes me a lesser member of the ILUGD community, but I'd appreciate it if more things were kept on the mailing list. Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, G Karunakar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Wait you are confusing two entities - LUG - Linux User Group - the registered society...where a committee takes decisions (you have to pay a small fee to be registered member of this organization.. though objectives of this entity are while being same as ILUGD but much more too...(as specified in the MOA). ILUGD - the unofficial group.. comprising folks on mailing lists..quite informal.. anyone has a say as long as they do it in it right time (when opinions are called for).. place (ILUGD meeting/list).. Hmmm, that makes sense. Agreed and thanks for pointing it out Karunakar. Regards, Anupam Jain ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
Anupam Jain wrote: Being involved with ilugc for almost 3 years now, as both physical volunteer and active in mailing list, I just want to add some of our own experiences as a LUG. Every LUG can have two modes of operation which are vital to call it alive or dead - Digital and Physical. Digital activities include Mailing List (which is more or less mandatory) and a web site or wiki. Physical activities include monthly meets, seminars and workshops, etc. Considering mailing lists, its pretty much open to discussions. Though sometimes it gets personal, most times there are enough people and posts for both sides of the coin. But, as far as I have seen, participation in mailing list alone doesn't make one take decisions for a LUG. Although it is true that all people can not make themselves physically present in all the meets, at least they should be know to have attended a few. More physical participation you put, more your voices are heard. Though all issues are posted and discussed in mailing list, mostly whenever a concrete decision was required it was always through meets and physical participation. Decision making in mailing list has rather been ending up in a void state, without a concrete decision been reached mainly due to high volume counter-postings and flame wars. Sometimes we have had polls, example when we wanted to decide about reply-to munging for the mailing list. But, for physical activities it has always been through physical participations i.e. meets. Such meets are announced prior, those who are interested in decision making participate, those who are not in chennai do mail their voices before the meeting and the final decision is to the people who attend the meeting, mostly the most active 10-20 people of the LUG. I think, this is not much different from what have been happening in at least the other 2 LUGs i mentioned. Though Delhi LUG may be a registered body, still AFAIK follows a similar method where important decisions are taken through meetings and physical voting. -- With Regards Parthan (TechnoFreak) . A Proud GNU/Linux User and Ubuntero .0. ..0 [Web] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Parthan 000 [Blog]http://technofreakatchennai.wordpress.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, Vishnu Gopal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Parthan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip snip snip] 3. We were too tempted to know what 'interoperability' they meant were all about, so we went to the M$ stall and enquired what they were having there for display on a Linux conference. The answer was we have a presentation running, you can see that. On the other hand, other stalls like Collabnet, Spike Source, Turbo Linux, etc were kind enough to explain in detail about their product, answer all queries and even open to some criticisms. The people posted at the M$ stall were not techies and were not even able to tell what they had displayed in their stall. We dont expect the reply check the power point presentation when some one eager enough to know something about their presence approaches. Offtopic, but I was there as well and it's not M$ alone that did this. Google also had eyecandy gurls and pretty much nothing in their stalls except a box where you can fill in an application to join them. Nobody however takes them out on this which is sad. Anti-MS fervor can get you far, but perhaps it can also make you blind. well what do you expect google to show.. a screen with google search opened..? or gmail? or orkut? or youtube? or google earth?... at least they have something to do with FOSS.. whether they are there for hiring..or drumming up for SoC... what would tehelka show except their weekly.., or Novell ..except their half propreitry stuff.. so with other stalls.. while all other stalls used it in their own way.. they were atleast related to FOSS ... while M$ aint.. after all it was LA... not foss.in / freedel / gnunify.. Karunakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
And it is not really relevant but I have been living in Bangalore for over a year now (and many places elsewhere the year before that). So it is not really possible for me to be a part of the meetings anymore. I'm not sure if that fact makes me a lesser member of the ILUGD community, but I'd appreciate it if more things were kept on the mailing list. you are very true on your part that everyone can't make the physical appearance in the meetings. But, if you consider yourself as a responsible rather active member of ILUGD then you should have initiated the thread of ILUGD participation in LA rather waiting for someone to ask for your honorable suggestion. -Kapil (kaps) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And it is not really relevant but I have been living in Bangalore for over a year now (and many places elsewhere the year before that). So it is not really possible for me to be a part of the meetings anymore. I'm not sure if that fact makes me a lesser member of the ILUGD community, but I'd appreciate it if more things were kept on the mailing list. Join the ILUGD Bangalore chapter ;-) Karunakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
Hi, On 2/8/07, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] There is no decision-making behind closed doors. Just because we didn't send a goddam chauffeur-driven limousine to your door to pick you up, bring you to the meetings that were announced on the list and solicit your valuable opinion doesn't mean that decisions were made behind closed doors, however much you may try to twist what everyone is saying to suit your own warped view of reality. I'd suggest you put up (substantiate what you're saying) or shut up; in other words, kindly shut up, since I can see no possible way you could manufacture any proof that ILUGD is acting in an undemocratic fashion. I don't need to substantiate anything. I never said that ILUGD was undemocratic. My hypothesis was a very weak one, namely ILUGD could do with having more openness. Anything in the world could do with more openness so it is not really something you would oppose. If you misread between the lines so far as to see allegations of undemocratic behaviour then it is your warped view of reality, not mine. Now that we have established that my allegations were not really so, I stand by whatever I said fully because I did not see a public discussion on this topic *before* the event. It may have been due to valid reasons (you say you had only a day to respond, which is a very valid reason) but the fact remains. And it is not really relevant but I have been living in Bangalore for over a year now (and many places elsewhere the year before that). So it is not really possible for me to be a part of the meetings anymore. I'm not sure if that fact makes me a lesser member of the ILUGD community, but I'd appreciate it if more things were kept on the mailing list. Continue with your illogical and baseless reasonings. This thread needs to outnumber all existing records. Please contribute as much as you can because you are not going to accept the obvious. Nice way to contribute to Free Software Movement. Regards Nikhil Prabhakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
On Thursday 08 February 2007 7:36 pm, Anupam Jain wrote: [snip] we have established that my allegations were not really so, I stand by whatever I said fully because I did not see a public discussion on this topic *before* the event. It may have been due to valid reasons Look I haven't attended an ILUGD event for ages and yet I was keenly aware that this was going on for quite some time. There is usually a pretty large overlap between the folks who turn up for these meetings and the people who actually end up doing the work during the event, so not having an online poll of some sort make exactly zero difference. Besides that, I doubt that anyone's personal right to show up at LA as an ILUGD member was somehow taken away. And it is not really relevant but I have been living in Bangalore for over a year now (and many places elsewhere the year before that). So it is not really possible for me to be a part of the meetings anymore. I'm not sure if that fact makes me a lesser member of the ILUGD community, but I'd appreciate it if more things were kept on the mailing list. Since you are not in Delhi, I would assume that the decision for ILUGD to participate would have had no concrete effect on your being present to help out. What makes ILUGD different from other LUGs is that it is based in Delhi. I am sure that the Oslo Linux User Group would welcome me with open arms if I chose to join their mailing list, but it wouldn't surprise me if they took it poorly if I felt that I had some sort of right to dictate their involvement in events in Oslo via online poll. -Taj. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 2/8/07, G Karunakar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/8/07, Vishnu Gopal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] well what do you expect google to show.. a screen with google search opened..? or gmail? or orkut? or youtube? or google earth?... at least they have something to do with FOSS.. whether they are there for hiring..or drumming up for SoC... what would tehelka show except their weekly.., or Novell ..except their half propreitry stuff.. so with other stalls.. while all other stalls used it in their own way.. they were atleast related to FOSS ... while M$ aint.. after all it was LA... not foss.in / freedel / gnunify.. Karunakar If they have something to do with FOSS then a demo would do wonders. Frankly I'm disgusted at Google stalls I see at conferences everywhere - and yeah was at Foss.in too this year where they had six big couches and two (admittedly better looking) girls =). Contrast that to the Sun stall at Foss.in and the energy and enthu of the people there was amazing. Used to think Sun was a crappy company but just the tech demos there had me converted. Please note, this is not a comparison of what M$ did versus what Google did or is doing, but just a comment on their conference stalls. Vish ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
in infinite wisdom Vishnu Gopal spoke thus On 02/08/2007 07:17 PM: Offtopic, but I was there as well and it's not M$ alone that did this. Google also had eyecandy gurls and pretty much nothing in their stalls except a box where you can fill in an application to join them. Nobody however takes them out on this which is sad. FWIW - I am anti-Google too ;-) . However, they have shown their support for free software quite strongly http://code.google.com/projects.html being one case in point and Summer of Code that they fund being another. -- raj shekhar facts: http://rajshekhar.net | opinions: http://rajshekhar.net/blog I dare do all that may become a man; Who dares do more is none. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 19:41 +0530, Parthan wrote: Vishnu Gopal wrote: [...] Google also had eyecandy gurls [...] Second, google wasn't with eye candy gurls. [...] I am really, really confused. What is wrong with, ahem, quote eye candy gurls unquote. And, in a FOSS world! I mean, really. Regards, Gora ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
From: Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] The event needed money and they were paying lots. Call a spade a spade. If they weren't paying this huge mail wouldn't have been there, right? M$ ideology is exactly opposite of Linux ideology, so its like Smirnoff sponsoring the Alcoholics Anonymous meet. Except that Smirnoff is in the Alcoholic drinks business which is 'by definition' opposed to an AA meet's purpose. Where as Microsoft is in the software business, just like the FOSS fellows. Microsoft sponsoring the LA event is NOT the same as Smirnoff sponsoring an AA meet. Do you know what the Free Software movement stands for? I am not sure about the Open Source initiative, but atleast the Free Software movement is about software, philosophy and law. All three of them strongly relating to software freedom. Therefore the statement Microsoft is in the software business, just like the FOSS fellows is faulty. Microsoft was never in the business of spreading the philosophy of software freedom, and never supported any legislation to implement it. I really don't understand what the big deal is. If the agenda was sabotaged by Microsoft by just being a partrner/sponsor then let's hear it in concrete terms *how*. Next time we talk of fighting the drug menace, we should inform the Taliban drug lords from Afghanistan. They will have plenty of money to pay for your tea and biscuits. Cheerio, Debarshi -- After the game the king and the pawn go into the same box. -- Italian proverb ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
Let's not have any illusions. Microsoft joined in the party for its own personal selfish gains. It would be illogical to think otherwise. But the point is did succeed in harming the community? Do we need to wait for it to do more harm? Regards, Debarshi -- After the game the king and the pawn go into the same box. -- Italian proverb ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
Gora Mohanty wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 19:36 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: [Anything of value deleted] You know, this is absolutely the first time I have ever done this, but then, on the other hand, I have not yet met a more deserving candidate. This is one of the few forums that I have no hesitation in speaking my mind, and, unlike some other people, I stand by every word I say. I am quite aware that these are archived, and I am carefully choosing my words: Fuck you, and the horse you rode in on!. I hope that is clear enough. I will +1 never again waste my time arguing with you. And, *please*, feel free to quote me on that. With best regards (so to speak), Gora Nicely said Gora. Jasbir. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Fwd: Linux in Gov't
CDAC (Navi Mumbai) - is doing trainings..etc under OSSRC banner.. They are developing a speech interface for visually impaired people for Pine at OSSRC. Pine is not Free Software, do not know whether it is Open Source or not. Regards, Debarshi -- After the game the king and the pawn go into the same box. -- Italian proverb ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
2. BTW as for the reason, Microsoft have their Linux infrastructure in house to work on and do research. They are taking on things that work in Linux and make changes to their own products. When a crime is done, the criminal knows that he is doing wrong. In most cases he also knows what is right. It is just that he does not do what is right. The same logic holds here. It doesn't do much good, if we can't show TCO will be less with Linux. Be realistic, why many people are afraid to take on Linux ;) People who know nothing about computers are never afraid of GNU/Linux. Only self-assuming know-alls are afraid. Cheers, Debarshi -- After the game the king and the pawn go into the same box. -- Italian proverb ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
Linus is another one of those practical side people, who had created Linux without any philosophy in mind. I totally agree that without RMS and FSF and GNU and all the big picture people we would not be where we are today but without the practical people we would all still be hacking on a huge bunch of loosely coupled GNU utilities wrapped around a commercial closed source kernel, waiting for GNU Mach to make an appearance. We still would have had the BSDs, I guess. So it still could have been possible to use a completely free operating system. By the way Linux can not be compiled without GCC, where G stands for GNU. Bye, Debarshi -- After the game the king and the pawn go into the same box. -- Italian proverb ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 08-Feb-07, at 7:17 PM, Vishnu Gopal wrote: Offtopic, but I was there as well and it's not M$ alone that did this. Google also had eyecandy gurls and pretty much nothing in their stalls except a box where you can fill in an application to join them. Nobody however takes them out on this which is sad. Anti-MS fervor can get you far, but perhaps it can also make you blind. google spent 40,00,000 USD on the soc project for 640 students to contribute code to around a 100 OSS projects. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
On 08-Feb-07, at 7:36 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: by whatever I said fully because I did not see a public discussion on this topic *before* the event. you need urgently to visit an occulist -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
On 08-Feb-07, at 8:09 PM, Parthan wrote: Sometimes we have had polls, example when we wanted to decide about reply-to munging for the mailing list that wasnt a poll - it was regular voting, one man one vote and care was taken to see that all the voters were active members of the list. And it was a vote on list management and not lug management. It is interesting to note that though the list had 1500 members, only 67 votes were polled. This is a very high percentage as most mailing lists have a very high percentage of zombies. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
On 08-Feb-07, at 8:54 PM, Anupam Jain wrote: Join the ILUGD Bangalore chapter ;-) Didn't know there was one! there is one - get on #linux-india on freenode to learn more -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
On 09-Feb-07, at 3:05 AM, Debarshi Ray wrote: Linus is another one of those practical side people, who had created Linux without any philosophy in mind. I totally agree that without RMS and FSF and GNU and all the big picture people we would not be where we are today but without the practical people we would all still be hacking on a huge bunch of loosely coupled GNU utilities wrapped around a commercial closed source kernel, waiting for GNU Mach to make an appearance. We still would have had the BSDs, I guess. So it still could have been possible to use a completely free operating system. By the way Linux can not be compiled without GCC, where G stands for GNU. looks like the FSF cavalry has finally arrived -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
--- Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: they contributed the line return 0; to linux code. :-) nah, exit -1 :-) regards VK Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007
--- Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are not nil and I will vouch for it. Read my Haskell post for an example. Go to research.microsoft.com and you'll realise that Microsoft engineers contribute a lot in terms of ideas (though their code may still be under MS' control). And I personally know atleast one person in working in Microsoft who is an avid Linuxer. Whatever Anupam, what is the overall equation? One avid linuxer against a gang of anti linux activist? There was one OSS pro person from M$ in LA. Still, junior executives distribute properitary software at CXO summit and demonstrate Vista and Office 2007. It appears paradox in saying and doing is the core of M$. It is difficult to believe that an organization boasting of corporate culture would be stupid enough, not to brief the executives properly!! Points raised by you in favour of M$ are perfectly valid. But one individual is easy to woo. M$ has baits for every fish in OSS ocean. Whether you avoid the bait or eat it is upto you. regards VK Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] M$ can be sued
Hi! Found his interesting posting on fsf-frinds mailing list http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2007-February/004604.html SHows how M$ can be sued under IT act. regards VK Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] M$ can be sued
Sorry for top-posting here as my blackberry mail client doesn't allow to bottom-post. Now coming to the point. Why is it that LUGs cannot think beyond Microsoft. Why are we so MS obsessed ? Instead let us concentrate on what FOSS has to offer. Regards, Surjo. Sent from my Airtel Blackberry View my online journal at http://surjodas.blogspot.com -Original Message- From: vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:46:16 To:Delhi Linux [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ilugd] M$ can be sued Hi! Found his interesting posting on fsf-frinds mailing list http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2007-February/004604.html SHows how M$ can be sued under IT act. regards VK Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] M$ can be sued
--- Surjo Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for top-posting here as my blackberry mail client doesn't allow to bottom-post. Now coming to the point. Why is it that LUGs cannot think beyond Microsoft. Why are we so MS obsessed ? Instead let us concentrate on what FOSS has to offer. M$ seems to be the flavor of the season. I tried introducing Apple yesterday but no luck. ;-) Yes there are several issues but appears this list is obsessed only with M$. At last M$ participation has done one good thing to community, this mailing list is alive again. Sent from my Airtel Blackberry Sent from Firefox web browser, for details please visit www.msfirefox.com regards VK Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have a solution in search of a problem. http://creative.linux-delhi.org Disclaimer The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw... Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Steve jobs on abolishing DRM
Steve jobs suggests abolishing DRM in a recently published article at apple's website more at http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/ Bwaaahaahaa! x 100 When iTunes was the only DRM around, Jobs was pushing it down everyone's throat, to the extent that he threatened to sue PlayFair (a FairPlay cracking technology) which was hosted at Sarovar. Now that MS seems to be well on the way to cornering the online media market and turning Apple into an also-ran, and a sorry one at that, suddenly Jobs sees the light and talks about abolishing DRM? Talk about hypocrisy! bang on raj! steve's hardware is also tightly proprietory. his inclinations towards everything 'proprietory' start from the days he legally threatened anyone from even unscrewing the mac casing open, circa 1984. all the hardware specs, firmware, etc are still locked up. iTunes, iPod, and even his music file formats are hallmark examples of DRM. his wonderful software for video compositing, 'shake' was actually an initial, promising GPL software. google, and you can't find much traces of the initial work either to his credit he's offered openEXR fileformat to the world, and some of his stuff on Darwin and the apple open licenses got endorsed eventually by the FSF. but he needs to make friends with the EFF more than the FSF, since at this moment, his business models are around what they disgustingly call 'content', and that too other people's 'content'. niyam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 19:36 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: [Anything of value deleted] You know, this is absolutely the first time I have ever done this, but then, on the other hand, I have not yet met a more deserving candidate. Could this be the first wave of the M$ Warriors coming out of the Trojan Horse to capture fair Linux? BTW I read that M$ offered some guy cash to correct the technically incorrect parts reg M$ on wikipedia. catch ya later (Ive gotta UnWire Life!!!) shiv - It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ILUGD functioning [WAS: Re: The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007]
On 2/9/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 19:36 +0530, Anupam Jain wrote: [Anything of value deleted] You know, this is absolutely the first time I have ever done this, but then, on the other hand, I have not yet met a more deserving candidate. This is one of the few forums that I have no hesitation in speaking my mind, and, unlike some other people, I stand by every word I say. I am quite aware that these are archived, and I am carefully choosing my words: Fuck you, and the horse you rode in on!. I hope that is clear enough. I will never again waste my time arguing with you. And, *please*, feel free to quote me on that. [Anything without any value kept] Anupam, KENNETH, Gora, Sriram, Anant, Mahesh T. Pai, Vivek Khurana Sab log kyu bandwidth kha rahe ho? Why are you wasting bandwidth and web space on useless discussion. broadband ka jamana hai... must have a night unlimited plan.. How about setting an Arena and giving sticks to everyone and have a group stick fight. Winner gets a XBOX (sorry no Linux based gaming consoles yet) heard than people got PS2 XBOX running linux.. ofcourse lesser games on it..! Karunakar ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
