subject:"Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater"

Steven had a “dream” and then had to tell us all about this amazing “dream.”

A long while after the conversation ended. 

Are you my mother?

> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:38, Benn Glazier  wrote:
> 
> Denise - Steven has cap in hand apologised. You are now denigrating him for 
> that. I do not feel it serves a purpose to further chastise him about the 
> matter. 
> 
> We know how you feel, and rightly or wrongly people will agree with you.  
> You've spent a lot of time discussing your point of view and others have 
> shared theirs which I'm all for. Remember, all of us do not live in Detroit 
> or the US or have had first-hand contact with racial discrimination. 
> 
> Whilst that doesn't at all mean for one minute we're disagreeing with how 
> blacks have been downtrodden in society, it means our exposure is different. 
> In my eyes your points are more than valid but one's own experiences elicit a 
> response, and whilst we can be more well read than in previous years thanks 
> to technology, there's still a lot to learn for anyone who has not grown up 
> with or been subject to this oppression. Humans are fickle and behaviour to 
> get people on board needs to be constructive. Short answer, it would have 
> been great if RA had of produced the piece in the way that has been 
> discussed!  Bottom line, Denise, you made Stephen dig deeper and read and 
> learn and that's great, but don't beat him down further!
> 
> Now to not be faceless, for those that don't know me I'm a white guy (who has 
> some north African roots!) who grew up in Australia. Where does even one 
> start to discuss what we've done to our Indigenous population.  I live in 
> London now, and I look around the office today and I can see people of all 
> backgrounds getting on harmoniously - and that's London for you. Our racial 
> issues, whilst still existing, pale in comparison with many other countries 
> and cities.  Speaking of London, for those of you here, check these black 
> history walks around the city (I just did the Soho one) -  
> http://www.blackhistorywalks.co.uk/
> 
> Hatchet buried? Just not in his head (or mine).  Where's George M Smiley 
> these days? 
> 
> Now... I just picked up on some music by Javonntte.  Hadn't heard of him 
> until a couple of weeks ago. Great to find a new name. 
> 
> BG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 13:12 Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>> 
>> Conversation very confusing.
>> 
>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.
>>> 
>>> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR and 
>>> Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews. 
>>> 
>>> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not 
>>> arrogant enough to post the link again. 
>>> 
>>> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re 
>>> all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about 
>>> who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 
>>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
 Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as 
 it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which 
 opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am 
 sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a 
 neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
 
 The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel 
 very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened 
 to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was 
 ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to 
 appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the 
 insult. I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a 
 listener probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that 
 I'm not disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I 
 would be disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to 
 be disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about 
 it, leading to my ignorance.
 
 It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise 
 (though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular 
 email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem 
 happily provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might go and 
 read more of what you have got to say about it. The music is something 
 else in any case, but I accept that you probably know a lot better the 
 motivations behind the music, and that you may be right.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-11-06 Thread Benn Glazier

Denise - Steven has cap in hand apologised. You are now denigrating him for
that. I do not feel it serves a purpose to further chastise him about the
matter.

We know how you feel, and rightly or wrongly people will agree with you.
You've spent a lot of time discussing your point of view and others have
shared theirs which I'm all for. Remember, all of us do not live in Detroit
or the US or have had first-hand contact with racial discrimination.

Whilst that doesn't at all mean for one minute we're disagreeing with how
blacks have been downtrodden in society, it means our exposure is
different. In my eyes your points are more than valid but one's own
experiences elicit a response, and whilst we can be more well read than in
previous years thanks to technology, there's still a lot to learn for
anyone who has not grown up with or been subject to this oppression. Humans
are fickle and behaviour to get people on board needs to be constructive.
Short answer, it would have been great if RA had of produced the piece in
the way that has been discussed!  Bottom line, Denise, you made Stephen dig
deeper and read and learn and that's great, but don't beat him down further!

Now to not be faceless, for those that don't know me I'm a white guy (who
has some north African roots!) who grew up in Australia. Where does even
one start to discuss what we've done to our Indigenous population.  I live
in London now, and I look around the office today and I can see people of
all backgrounds getting on harmoniously - and that's London for you. Our
racial issues, whilst still existing, pale in comparison with many other
countries and cities.  Speaking of London, for those of you here, check
these black history walks around the city (I just did the Soho one) -
http://www.blackhistorywalks.co.uk/

Hatchet buried? Just not in his head (or mine).  Where's George M Smiley
these days?

Now... I just picked up on some music by Javonntte.  Hadn't heard of him
until a couple of weeks ago. Great to find a new name.

BG

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 13:12 Steven Robertson  wrote:

> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>
> Conversation very confusing.
>
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.
>
> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR
> and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews.
>
> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not
> arrogant enough to post the link again.
>
> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re
> all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about
> who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 
>
> Denise
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as
> it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which
> opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am
> sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a
> neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
>
> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel
> very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened to
> what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was
> ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to
> appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the insult.
> I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a listener
> probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not
> disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I would be
> disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be
> disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about it,
> leading to my ignorance.
>
> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise
> (though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular email
> reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem happily
> provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might go and read more of
> what you have got to say about it. The music is something else in any case,
> but I accept that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind the
> music, and that you may be right.
>
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> Denise
>
> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard what
> James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism, and that
> Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later I'm writing
> this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing on

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I will just unsubscribe from this list. I apologise for whatever I said
that caused or may cause offence. I'm only here for the music, and I'm
sorry for responding to this topic entirely. Bye.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:14 PM, Steven Robertson wrote:
> No idea what that is.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:13 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> “Provocative?” 
>> 
>> What is this 1988? Have you been watching Falcon Crest?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:12, Steven Robertson  wrote:>>> If I 
>> am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>>> 
>>> Conversation very confusing.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it
 is rude. 
 You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya
 and UR and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good
 reviews. 
 I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but
 not arrogant enough to post the link again. 
 Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots,
 you’re all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating
 with you about who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux.  
 Denise
 
 
 
 
 On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson 
 wrote:> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about 
 it,
> but as it happens I came across other information a couple of days
> ago which opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be
> fair, I am sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.
> I do not have a neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up
> with a conversation.> 
> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did
> feel very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't
> really listened to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about
> it, because it was ignorant. In the same manner I would defend
> other parties that fail to appreciate the sensitive nature of it,
> as probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't see it that
> way, that the interpretation as a listener probably just suited my
> own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if
> that were the case, and I regret writing that I would be
> disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to
> be disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough
> about it, leading to my ignorance.> 
> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy
> surprise (though it probably depends on the image being used in
> the particular email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's
> meant to be. You seem happily provocative, and I don't really
> object to that. I might go and read more of what you have got to
> say about it. The music is something else in any case, but I
> accept that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind
> the music, and that you may be right.> 
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>> 
>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson 
>> wrote:>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really
>>> heard what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was
>>> about racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong.
>>> Only 20 minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half
>>> asleep, but I know this was playing on my mind since reading an
>>> article on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families
>>> in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and
>>> honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.>>> 
>>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently
>>> about the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation
>>> of Scotland by the British army for many many years following
>>> the battle of Culloden. Following that were the highland
>>> clearances, ordered by land-owners in England. There's a
>>> monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice an MP in
>>> the British Parliament, he later became the British ambassador
>>> in Paris. People demand that the statue be removed, or at least
>>> moved. In short, it says more about the British involvement in
>>> the slave trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were
>>> not directly used, but they were used in some arrangement which
>>> was directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had
>>> nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow,
>>> and my ancestors there were all poor working class families. I
>>> think we should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

No idea what that is.


On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:13 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> “Provocative?” 
> 
> What is this 1988? Have you been watching Falcon Crest?
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:12, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>> 
>> Conversation very confusing.
>> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it
>>> is rude.>>> 
>>> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and
>>> UR and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews.>>> 
>>> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not
>>> arrogant enough to post the link again.>>> 
>>> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots,
>>> you’re all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating
>>> with you about who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. >>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote: 
>>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it,
 but as it happens I came across other information a couple of days
 ago which opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be
 fair, I am sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.
 I do not have a neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up
 with a conversation. 
 The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did
 feel very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't
 really listened to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about
 it, because it was ignorant. In the same manner I would defend
 other parties that fail to appreciate the sensitive nature of it,
 as probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't see it that way,
 that the interpretation as a listener probably just suited my own
 world view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if that
 were the case, and I regret writing that I would be disappointed. I
 am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be disappointed.
 It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about it, leading
 to my ignorance. 
 It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy
 surprise (though it probably depends on the image being used in the
 particular email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant
 to be. You seem happily provocative, and I don't really object to
 that. I might go and read more of what you have got to say about
 it. The music is something else in any case, but I accept that you
 probably know a lot better the motivations behind the music, and
 that you may be right. 
 On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It took you this long to think of a response. 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson 
> wrote:>> Denise
>> 
>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really
>> heard what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was
>> about racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong.
>> Only 20 minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep,
>> but I know this was playing on my mind since reading an article
>> on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families in the
>> slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and
>> honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.>> 
>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently
>> about the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation
>> of Scotland by the British army for many many years following the
>> battle of Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances,
>> ordered by land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of
>> them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British
>> Parliament, he later became the British ambassador in Paris.
>> People demand that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In
>> short, it says more about the British involvement in the slave
>> trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not
>> directly used, but they were used in some arrangement which was
>> directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had
>> nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow, and
>> my ancestors there were all poor working class families. I think
>> we should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-
>> washing and as a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise
>> for my own ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I
>> certainly woke with a strong feeling that you could be.>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:>>> 
>>> I didn’t say that Black

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

“Provocative?” 

What is this 1988? Have you been watching Falcon Crest?



> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:12, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
> 
> Conversation very confusing.
> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.
>> 
>> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR and 
>> Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews. 
>> 
>> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not 
>> arrogant enough to post the link again. 
>> 
>> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re 
>> all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about 
>> who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as 
>>> it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which 
>>> opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am 
>>> sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a 
>>> neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
>>> 
>>> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel 
>>> very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened to 
>>> what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was 
>>> ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to 
>>> appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the insult. 
>>> I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a listener 
>>> probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not 
>>> disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I would be 
>>> disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be 
>>> disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about it, 
>>> leading to my ignorance.
>>> 
>>> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise 
>>> (though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular email 
>>> reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem happily 
>>> provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might go and read more of 
>>> what you have got to say about it. The music is something else in any case, 
>>> but I accept that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind the 
>>> music, and that you may be right.
>>> 
 On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 It took you this long to think of a response. 
 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> Denise
> 
> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard 
> what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism, 
> and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later 
> I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing 
> on my mind since reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of 
> Scottish families in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh 
> benefited, and honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.
> 
> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about 
> the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by 
> the British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden. 
> Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in 
> England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice 
> an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the British ambassador 
> in Paris. People demand that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In 
> short, it says more about the British involvement in the slave trade at 
> the time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly used, but they 
> were used in some arrangement which was directly involved with the slave 
> trade. I felt that we had nothing to do with that ugly business. I was 
> born in Glasgow, and my ancestors there were all poor working class 
> families. I think we should be taught this stuff in school. That's all 
> white-washing and as a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise 
> for my own ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I certainly 
> woke with a strong feeling that you could be.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve
> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended. 
>> Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet, 
>> you’re confused by your rage. 
>> 
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.

Conversation very confusing.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it
> is rude.> 
> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and
> UR and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews.> 
> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not
> arrogant enough to post the link again.> 
> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots,
> you’re all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with
> you about who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. > 
> Denise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it,
>> but as it happens I came across other information a couple of days
>> ago which opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be
>> fair, I am sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I
>> do not have a neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with
>> a conversation.>> 
>> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did
>> feel very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really
>> listened to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it,
>> because it was ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other
>> parties that fail to appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as
>> probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't see it that way, that
>> the interpretation as a listener probably just suited my own world
>> view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if that were the
>> case, and I regret writing that I would be disappointed. I am not
>> personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be disappointed. It's fair
>> enough. I just don't really know enough about it, leading to my
>> ignorance.>> 
>> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise
>> (though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular
>> email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You
>> seem happily provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might
>> go and read more of what you have got to say about it. The music is
>> something else in any case, but I accept that you probably know a lot
>> better the motivations behind the music, and that you may be right.>> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote: 
>>> Denise

 I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really
 heard what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was
 about racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong.
 Only 20 minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep,
 but I know this was playing on my mind since reading an article on
 the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families in the slave
 trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those
 families. It makes you feel sick. 
 I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently
 about the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of
 Scotland by the British army for many many years following the
 battle of Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances,
 ordered by land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of
 them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British
 Parliament, he later became the British ambassador in Paris. People
 demand that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In short, it
 says more about the British involvement in the slave trade at the
 time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly used, but
 they were used in some arrangement which was directly involved with
 the slave trade. I felt that we had nothing to do with that ugly
 business. I was born in Glasgow, and my ancestors there were all
 poor working class families. I think we should be taught this stuff
 in school. That's all white-washing and as a result we are mostly
 ignorant. I will apologise for my own ignorance, and appreciate
 that you may be right. I certainly woke with a strong feeling that
 you could be. 
 Regards

 Steve

 On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are
> offended. Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage.
> Better yet, you’re confused by your rage.> 
> Denise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:>> 
> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and
>> I feel that it was an accurate description of her intentions
>> based on >50% of the

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.

You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR and 
Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews. 

I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not arrogant 
enough to post the link again. 

Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re all 
the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about who you 
are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 

Denise




> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as it 
> happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which opened my 
> eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am sometimes 
> processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a neuro-typical 
> mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
> 
> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel very 
> strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened to what 
> he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was ignorant. In 
> the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to appreciate the 
> sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't 
> see it that way, that the interpretation as a listener probably just suited 
> my own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if that were 
> the case, and I regret writing that I would be disappointed. I am not 
> personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be disappointed. It's fair enough. 
> I just don't really know enough about it, leading to my ignorance.
> 
> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise (though 
> it probably depends on the image being used in the particular email reader I 
> guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem happily provocative, 
> and I don't really object to that. I might go and read more of what you have 
> got to say about it. The music is something else in any case, but I accept 
> that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind the music, and 
> that you may be right.
> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard what 
>>> James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism, and that 
>>> Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later I'm writing 
>>> this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing on my mind 
>>> since reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish 
>>> families in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and 
>>> honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.
>>> 
>>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about the 
>>> practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by the 
>>> British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden. 
>>> Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in 
>>> England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice 
>>> an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the British ambassador in 
>>> Paris. People demand that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In 
>>> short, it says more about the British involvement in the slave trade at the 
>>> time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly used, but they were 
>>> used in some arrangement which was directly involved with the slave trade. 
>>> I felt that we had nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in 
>>> Glasgow, and my ancestors there were all poor working class families. I 
>>> think we should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-washing 
>>> and as a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise for my own 
>>> ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I certainly woke with a 
>>> strong feeling that you could be.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
 On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended. Read 
 my original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet, you’re 
 confused by your rage. 
 
 Denise
 
 
 
 
 
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I feel 
> that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on >50% of 
> the synonyms being a match. 
> 
> Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to choose 
> from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral 
> principles” is precisely what she’s guilty of:
> 
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but
as it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which
opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am
sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a
neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel
very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened
to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was
ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to
appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the
insult. I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a
listener probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that
I'm not disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I
would be disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason
to be disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough
about it, leading to my ignorance.
It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise
(though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular
email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem
happily provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might go and
read more of what you have got to say about it. The music is something
else in any case, but I accept that you probably know a lot better the
motivations behind the music, and that you may be right.
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It took you this long to think of a response. 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> Denise
>> 
>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard
>> what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about
>> racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20
>> minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know
>> this was playing on my mind since reading an article on the mostly
>> unknown involvement of Scottish families in the slave trade, and how
>> Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those families. It
>> makes you feel sick.>> 
>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently
>> about the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of
>> Scotland by the British army for many many years following the battle
>> of Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by
>> land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke
>> of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British Parliament, he later became
>> the British ambassador in Paris. People demand that the statue be
>> removed, or at least moved. In short, it says more about the British
>> involvement in the slave trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed.
>> Ports were not directly used, but they were used in some arrangement
>> which was directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had
>> nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow, and my
>> ancestors there were all poor working class families. I think we
>> should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-washing and
>> as a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise for my own
>> ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I certainly woke
>> with a strong feeling that you could be.>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended.
>>> Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet,
>>> you’re confused by your rage.>>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
 Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I
 feel that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on
 >50% of the synonyms being a match. 
 Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to
 choose from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper
 moral principles” is precisely what she’s guilty of: 
 https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ
  
 
 
 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams
  wrote:> I think it's fine to disagree, even 
 to argue, but putting on my
> 313 List Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List
> Administrator Sceptre, let me say this:> 
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the
> line.  And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has
> strong opinions and you can argue about them all you want, but

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

It took you this long to think of a response. 

> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Denise
> 
> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard what 
> James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism, and that 
> Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later I'm writing 
> this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing on my mind since 
> reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families in 
> the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those 
> families. It makes you feel sick.
> 
> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about the 
> practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by the 
> British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden. Following 
> that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in England. There's 
> a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British 
> Parliament, he later became the British ambassador in Paris. People demand 
> that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In short, it says more about 
> the British involvement in the slave trade at the time, but Scotland is 
> shamed. Ports were not directly used, but they were used in some arrangement 
> which was directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had nothing 
> to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow, and my ancestors there 
> were all poor working class families. I think we should be taught this stuff 
> in school. That's all white-washing and as a result we are mostly ignorant. I 
> will apologise for my own ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I 
> certainly woke with a strong feeling that you could be.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve
> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended. Read my 
>> original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet, you’re confused 
>> by your rage. 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I feel 
>>> that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on >50% of the 
>>> synonyms being a match. 
>>> 
>>> Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to choose 
>>> from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral principles” 
>>> is precisely what she’s guilty of:
>>> 
>>> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams  
>>> wrote:
>>> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List 
>>> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let 
>>> me say this:
>>> 
>>> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.  
>>> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions 
>>> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>>> 
>>> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> Agreed,
>>> 
>>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just 
>>> as much as actual racist views/comments. 
>>> 
>>> Next subject? 邏
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  wrote:
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
>>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>> 
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
>>> massive respect, nuff said 
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  wrote:
>>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
>>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't 
>>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>> 
>>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
>>> ago?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  wrote:
>>> 
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36,ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
>>> > response in situations like this.
>>> > 
>>> 
>>> Proper LOL
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-11-06 Thread 313

Iona. Rome. Detroit.

On 2018-11-06 09:07, Steven Robertson wrote:

Denise

I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard
what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about
racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20
minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know
this was playing on my mind since reading an article on the mostly
unknown involvement of Scottish families in the slave trade, and how
Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those families. It makes
you feel sick.

I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about
the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland
by the British army for many many years following the battle of
Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by
land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of
Sutherland, twice an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the
British ambassador in Paris. People demand that the statue be removed,
or at least moved. In short, it says more about the British
involvement in the slave trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed.
Ports were not directly used, but they were used in some arrangement
which was directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had
nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow, and my
ancestors there were all poor working class families. I think we
should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-washing and as
a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise for my own
ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I certainly woke with
a strong feeling that you could be.

Regards

Steve

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:

I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are
offended. Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage.
Better yet, you’re confused by your rage.

Denise

On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi wrote:

Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I
feel that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on

50% of the synonyms being a match.

Could I have used another word? Sure, there are many synonyms to
choose from. I think “not being fair” and “not applying
proper moral principles” is precisely what she’s guilty of:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams
wrote:

I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313
List Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator
Sceptre, let me say this:

I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the
line. And in this particular case, patently absurd. Denise has
strong opinions and you can argue about them all you want, but she
is not unscrupulous.

To quote Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it
means."

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi
wrote:

Agreed,

However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called
out just as much as actual racist views/comments.

Next subject? 邏

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com
wrote:

Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon
Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)

ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much
love, massive respect, nuff said

Jason

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams
wrote:

Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good.
He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka
MCs (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble
these days.

I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
years ago?

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust
wrote:

On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36,ja...@iridite.com wrote:

Where's Tom Cox when you need him? He's always got a calm and

measured response in situations like this.

Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Denise

I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard
what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism,
and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later
I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing
on my mind since reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of
Scottish families in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh
benefited, and honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.
I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about
the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by
the British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden.
Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in
England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland,
twice an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the British
ambassador in Paris. People demand that the statue be removed, or at
least moved. In short, it says more about the British involvement in the
slave trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly
used, but they were used in some arrangement which was directly involved
with the slave trade. I felt that we had nothing to do with that ugly
business. I was born in Glasgow, and my ancestors there were all poor
working class families. I think we should be taught this stuff in
school. That's all white-washing and as a result we are mostly ignorant.
I will apologise for my own ignorance, and appreciate that you may be
right. I certainly woke with a strong feeling that you could be.
Regards

Steve

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended.
> Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet,
> you’re confused by your rage.> 
> Denise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I
>> feel that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on
>> >50% of the synonyms being a match.>> 
>> Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to
>> choose from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral
>> principles” is precisely what she’s guilty of:>> 
>> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ>>
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams
>>  wrote:>>> I think it's fine to disagree, even to 
>> argue, but putting on my 313
>>> List Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator
>>> Sceptre, let me say this:>>> 
>>> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the
>>> line.  And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has
>>> strong opinions and you can argue about them all you want, but she
>>> is not unscrupulous.>>> 
>>> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it
>>> means.">>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi 
>>> wrote: Agreed,

 However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called
 out just as much as actual racist views/comments. 
 Next subject? 邏

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com
  wrote:> Heh - you obviously weren't part of 
 our.discussion about Dixon
> Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)> 
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much
> love, massive respect, nuff said> 
> Jason
> 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams
>  wrote:>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 
> list when the getting was
>> good. He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with
>> the sucka MCs (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out
>> of trouble these days.>> 
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like
>> 15 years ago?>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust
>>  wrote:>>> 
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36,ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>>  > 
>>>  > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm
>>>  > and measured response in situations like this.>>>  > 
>>> 
>>>  Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended. Read my 
original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet, you’re confused by 
your rage. 

Denise





> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
> 
> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I feel that 
> it was an accurate description of her intentions based on >50% of the 
> synonyms being a match. 
> 
> Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to choose 
> from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral principles” is 
> precisely what she’s guilty of:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams  
>> wrote:
>> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List 
>> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let me 
>> say this:
>> 
>> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.  
>> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions 
>> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>> 
>> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> Agreed,
>>> 
>>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just 
>>> as much as actual racist views/comments. 
>>> 
>>> Next subject? 邏
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  
 wrote:
 Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
 Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
 
 ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
 massive respect, nuff said 
 
 Jason
 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  
> wrote:
> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs 
> (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
> 
> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 
> years ago?
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>> > 
>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and 
>> > measured response in situations like this.
>> > 
>> 
>> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I feel
that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on >50% of the
synonyms being a match.

Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to choose
from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral principles”
is precisely what she’s guilty of:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ




On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams 
wrote:

> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List
> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let
> me say this:
>
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.
> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions
> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>
> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
>> Agreed,
>>
>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out
>> just as much as actual racist views/comments.
>>
>> Next subject? 邏
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon
>>> Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>>
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>>> massive respect, nuff said
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good.
 He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs
 (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.

 I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
 years ago?

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
 wrote:

>
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> >
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
> measured response in situations like this.
> >
>
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Yeah ok, and based on popular opinion Lil’ Wayne is the best rapper.

Again, name one black person here that was offended by the video...still
waiting ;)

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:20 AM  wrote:

> Denise’s opinions are widely shared around the world and are based on
> research.
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:18, kent williams  wrote:
>
> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List
> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let
> me say this:
>
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.
> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions
> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>
> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
>> Agreed,
>>
>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out
>> just as much as actual racist views/comments.
>>
>> Next subject? 邏
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon
>>> Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>>
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>>> massive respect, nuff said
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good.
 He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs
 (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.

 I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
 years ago?

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
 wrote:

>
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> >
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
> measured response in situations like this.
> >
>
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Denise’s opinions are widely shared around the world and are based on research. 



> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:18, kent williams  wrote:
> 
> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List 
> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let me 
> say this:
> 
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.  And 
> in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions and you 
> can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
> 
> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>> Agreed,
>> 
>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just 
>> as much as actual racist views/comments. 
>> 
>> Next subject? 邏
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  wrote:
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
>>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>> 
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
>>> massive respect, nuff said 
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
 On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  wrote:
 Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
 still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs 
 (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
 
 I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
 ago?
 
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  
> wrote:
> 
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> > 
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
> > response in situations like this.
> > 
> 
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread kent williams

I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List
Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let
me say this:

I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.
And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions
and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.

To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."


On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:

> Agreed,
>
> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just
> as much as actual racist views/comments.
>
> Next subject? 邏
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>
>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>> massive respect, nuff said
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>>> years ago?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
 >
 > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
 measured response in situations like this.
 >

 Proper LOL
>>>
>>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Eamonn Doyle

All still well here in Dublin Jason..   been too long !
E 



> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:58, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> 
> Heh, they're all coming out of the woodwork today!
> 
> Alrighty Eamonn?
> 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:55, Eamonn Doyle mailto:d...@d1.ie>> 
> wrote:
> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 
> 
> 
> Probably the most exhaustively researched site / blog about all things 
> Drexciya out there -  [caution: written by a white Irish guy] 
> 
> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eamonn Doyle
> 
> D1 Recordings, Dublin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:48, ja...@iridite.com  wrote:
>> 
>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>> 
>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
>> massive respect, nuff said 
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams > > wrote:
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't 
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>> 
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
>> ago?
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust > > wrote:
>> 
>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com  
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
>> > response in situations like this.
>> > 
>> 
>> Proper LOL
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Agreed,

However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just
as much as actual racist views/comments.

Next subject? 邏



On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  wrote:

> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
> massive respect, nuff said
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>> years ago?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
>>> measured response in situations like this.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Proper LOL
>>
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread jwan allen

The record still bangs.

and as for me being mad, or offended.


hm how do I say this. First pardon my crassness:

When as a black man in america, has getting mad about how two allies
perceived a beef/misunderstanding about some black shit between themselves
ever done anything for me...ever.

When I see Denise or Joe in whatever capacity in the near or distant
future. I'll dap  em up.

The end.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:52 PM Aidan O'Doherty 
wrote:

> The only drama I want in my life is this:
>
> https://www.discogs.com/HM-Drama-EP/release/6784
>
>
>
> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 17:48 ja...@iridite.com,  wrote:
>
>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>
>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>> massive respect, nuff said
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>>> years ago?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
 >
 > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
 measured response in situations like this.
 >

 Proper LOL
>>>
>>>

-- 
Technoir Audio
Broken Planet

"dealing with your imperfect world"

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread ja...@iridite.com

Heh, they're all coming out of the woodwork today!

Alrighty Eamonn?

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:55, Eamonn Doyle  wrote:

> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/
>
> Probably the most exhaustively researched site / blog about all things
> Drexciya out there -  *[caution: written by a white Irish guy]*
>
> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Eamonn Doyle
>
> D1 Recordings, Dublin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:48, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>
> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
> massive respect, nuff said
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>> years ago?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
>>> measured response in situations like this.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Proper LOL
>>
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Eamonn Doyle

http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 


Probably the most exhaustively researched site / blog about all things Drexciya 
out there -  [caution: written by a white Irish guy] 

http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 







Eamonn Doyle

D1 Recordings, Dublin








> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:48, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> 
> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
> 
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
> massive respect, nuff said 
> 
> Jason
> 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  > wrote:
> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't 
> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
> 
> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
> ago?
> 
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  > wrote:
> 
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
> > response in situations like this.
> > 
> 
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Aidan O'Doherty

The only drama I want in my life is this:

https://www.discogs.com/HM-Drama-EP/release/6784



On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 17:48 ja...@iridite.com,  wrote:

> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
> massive respect, nuff said
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>> years ago?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
>>> measured response in situations like this.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Proper LOL
>>
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread ja...@iridite.com

Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)

ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
massive respect, nuff said

Jason

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  wrote:

> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>
> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years
> ago?
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
>> response in situations like this.
>> >
>>
>> Proper LOL
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread kent williams

Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.

I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years
ago?

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  wrote:

>
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> >
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
> response in situations like this.
> >
>
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread jwan allen

I was glad I wasn't drinking coffee at that very moment.

My screen would've been covered.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:41 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:

> Bring on Tom! 藍
>
> Were you offended Jwan?  Kevin?  Anyone?
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:38 AM jwan allen  wrote:
>
>> HA!
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM ja...@iridite.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
>>> response in situations like this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty <
>>> aidan.b.odohe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
 we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac

 Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
 have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
 are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
 are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
 It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
 that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
 if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
 not doing it.

 I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if
 they had actually considered this.

 Thanks,
 Aidan

 On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:

> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how
> all this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white
> list! WTF
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
> racist views like you do.
>
> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been
> trying to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the
> team with this approach.
>
> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be
> happy that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who
> Drexciya is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>
>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s
>> past contributions to this listserv.
>>
>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>
>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>> talking about?
>>
>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive
>> white woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>
>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>
>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything
>> in a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long 
>> as
>> it was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a
>> problem with it.
>>
>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to
>> lead the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they
>> target look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or
>> mine.
>>
>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released
>> and hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved 
>> artists
>> you have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>
>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t
>> make something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards 
>> MORE
>> white people (their audience).
>>
>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re
>> trying to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you 
>> didn’t
>> make it??
>>
>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>
>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it
>> isn’t filet mignon.
>>
>> Pathetic.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond <
>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing 
>>> that
>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go 
>>> on!
>>>
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted
>>> the video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? 
>>> It's
>>> off putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Bring on Tom! 藍

Were you offended Jwan?  Kevin?  Anyone?




On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:38 AM jwan allen  wrote:

> HA!
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM ja...@iridite.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
>> response in situations like this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
>>> we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac
>>>
>>> Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
>>> have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
>>> are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
>>> are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
>>> It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
>>> that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
>>> if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
>>> not doing it.
>>>
>>> I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if
>>> they had actually considered this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Aidan
>>>
>>> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:
>>>
 What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
 this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
 WTF

 On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:

 I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
 racist views like you do.

 Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been
 trying to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the
 team with this approach.

 Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
 that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
 is and maybe even bought a release or two.




 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:

> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s
> past contributions to this listserv.
>
> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
> talking about?
>
> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive
> white woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>
> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>
> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything
> in a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long 
> as
> it was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a
> problem with it.
>
> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they 
> target
> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>
> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released
> and hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists
> you have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>
> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
> white people (their audience).
>
> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re
> trying to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t
> make it??
>
> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>
> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it
> isn’t filet mignon.
>
> Pathetic.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond <
> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing 
>> that
>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>> the colonizer.
>>
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually
>> all the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe,
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread jwan allen

HA!


On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM ja...@iridite.com 
wrote:

> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
> response in situations like this.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty 
> wrote:
>
>> Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
>> we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac
>>
>> Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
>> have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
>> are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
>> are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
>> It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
>> that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
>> if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
>> not doing it.
>>
>> I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if they
>> had actually considered this.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Aidan
>>
>> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:
>>
>>> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
>>> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
>>> WTF
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
>>> racist views like you do.
>>>
>>> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
>>> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
>>> with this approach.
>>>
>>> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
>>> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
>>> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>>>
 Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s
 past contributions to this listserv.

 Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?


 Denise






 On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:

 Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
 talking about?

 That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
 woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?

 Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:

 - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in
 a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
 was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
 with it.

 - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
 the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
 look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.

 - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
 hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
 have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.

 - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
 something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
 white people (their audience).

 - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
 to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
 it??

 The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
 without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.

 That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
 filet mignon.

 Pathetic.



 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond <
 denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>
> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
> the colonizer.
>
> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually
> all the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>
> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>
> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>
> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Martin Dust



> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> 
> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
> response in situations like this.
> 

Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread ja...@iridite.com

Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
response in situations like this.



On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty 
wrote:

> Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
> we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac
>
> Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
> have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
> are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
> are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
> It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
> that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
> if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
> not doing it.
>
> I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if they
> had actually considered this.
>
> Thanks,
> Aidan
>
> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:
>
>> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
>> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
>> WTF
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>
>> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
>> racist views like you do.
>>
>> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
>> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
>> with this approach.
>>
>> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
>> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
>> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
>>> contributions to this listserv.
>>>
>>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>>
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>>> talking about?
>>>
>>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
>>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>>
>>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>>
>>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in
>>> a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
>>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
>>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>>
>>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
>>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
>>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>>
>>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>>> white people (their audience).
>>>
>>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
>>> to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
>>> it??
>>>
>>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>>
>>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
>>> filet mignon.
>>>
>>> Pathetic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond <
>>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
 Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
 Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!

 Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
 video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
 putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
 brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
 the colonizer.

 Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually
 all the way super duper is all about race and racism.

 And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
 birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.

 Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
 protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.

 Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask
 John Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans 
 alike.



 Denise



 *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
 *ethnomusicologist*

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Aidan O'Doherty

Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac

Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
not doing it.

I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if they
had actually considered this.

Thanks,
Aidan

On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:

> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
> WTF
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist
> views like you do.
>
> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
> with this approach.
>
> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>
>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
>> contributions to this listserv.
>>
>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>
>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>> talking about?
>>
>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>
>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>
>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
>> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
>> with it.
>>
>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>
>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>
>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>> white people (their audience).
>>
>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
>> to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
>> it??
>>
>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>
>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
>> filet mignon.
>>
>> Pathetic.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>>
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>>> the colonizer.
>>>
>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>>
>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>>
>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>>
>>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask
>>> John Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>>> *ethnomusicologist*
>>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
 video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
 behind Drexciya.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Name one who was fucking offended by the video??

Go ahead, I’ll wait...

Your ignorance is truly astonishing.

That video was dope, informative and above all RESPECTFUL.

I suppose my “way of thinking” hasn’t caught up to me yet because I’m still
tight with my D peeps.  I put out records with and stay at Wilhite’s place
when in town, Atkins would stay at my house back in the day when I’d bring
him out to LA and Kenny personally walked me into Soul Skate last Movement
weekend.

For some reason they don’t give a fuck about all this but YOU do.

The only thing that comes close is my man Mike Grant taking issue with
white European artists using black artwork and artist names on their
releases. I think we can all agree that sucks.



On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:59 AM  wrote:

> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
> WTF
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist
> views like you do.
>
> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
> with this approach.
>
> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>
>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
>> contributions to this listserv.
>>
>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>
>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>> talking about?
>>
>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>
>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>
>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
>> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
>> with it.
>>
>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>
>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>
>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>> white people (their audience).
>>
>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
>> to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
>> it??
>>
>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>
>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
>> filet mignon.
>>
>> Pathetic.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>>
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>>> the colonizer.
>>>
>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>>
>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>>
>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>>
>>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask
>>> John Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>>> *ethnomusicologist*
>>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
 video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
 behind Drexciya.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8

 includes

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all this 
old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list! WTF 

> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
> 
> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist 
> views like you do.  
> 
> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying to 
> point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team with 
> this approach. 
> 
> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy that 
> maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya is and 
> maybe even bought a release or two. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past 
>> contributions to this listserv. 
>> 
>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>> 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you 
>>> talking about?  
>>> 
>>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white 
>>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>> 
>>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>> 
>>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a 
>>> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it 
>>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem 
>>> with it. 
>>> 
>>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the 
>>> video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target 
>>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine. 
>>> 
>>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and 
>>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you 
>>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>> 
>>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make 
>>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE 
>>> white people (their audience).  
>>> 
>>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to 
>>> make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??
>>> 
>>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview without 
>>> asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle. 
>>> 
>>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t 
>>> filet mignon.  
>>> 
>>> Pathetic. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond  
 wrote:
 I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James 
 Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that 
 Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
 
 Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the 
 video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off 
 putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of 
 brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from 
 the colonizer. 
 
 Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all 
 the way super duper is all about race and racism. 
 
 And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
 birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
 
 Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
 protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
 
 Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
 Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
 
 
 
 Denise
 
 
 
 Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
 ethnomusicologist
 schoolcraftwax.work
 
 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
> behind Drexciya.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
> 
> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
> 
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Jeffrey J Davis
> 
> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
> 
> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
> 
> 218.833.2847

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist
views like you do.

Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying to
point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team with
this approach.

Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
is and maybe even bought a release or two.




On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:

> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
> contributions to this listserv.
>
> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
> talking about?
>
> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>
> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>
> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
> with it.
>
> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the
> video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>
> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>
> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
> white people (their audience).
>
> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to
> make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??
>
> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>
> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
> filet mignon.
>
> Pathetic.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
> wrote:
>
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>> the colonizer.
>>
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>
>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>
>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John
>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>> behind Drexciya.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>>
>>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>>
>>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>
>>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>
>>> 218.833.2847
>>>
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past 
contributions to this listserv. 

Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?


Denise






> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
> 
> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you talking 
> about?  
> 
> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white 
> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
> 
> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
> 
> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a 
> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it was 
> done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem with 
> it. 
> 
> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the 
> video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target look 
> and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine. 
> 
> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and 
> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you 
> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
> 
> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make 
> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE white 
> people (their audience).   
> 
> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to 
> make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??
> 
> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview without 
> asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle. 
> 
> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t filet 
> mignon.  
> 
> Pathetic. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond  
>> wrote:
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James Stinson 
>> still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that Andrew 
>> Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>> 
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the video, 
>> and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off putting. 
>> They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of brilliant, 
>> musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from the colonizer. 
>> 
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all the 
>> way super duper is all about race and racism. 
>> 
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
>> 
>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
>> 
>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>> behind Drexciya.
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>> 
>>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>> 
>>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>> 
>>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>> 
>>> 218.833.2847

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
talking about?

That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?

Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:

- RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
with it.

- Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the
video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.

- Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.

- You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
white people (their audience).

- For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to
make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??

The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview without
asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.

That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
filet mignon.

Pathetic.



On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>
> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
> the colonizer.
>
> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>
> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>
> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>
> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John
> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>> behind Drexciya.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>
>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>
>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>
>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>
>> 218.833.2847
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I really liked all that UR carhartt stuff. That was a pretty good idea. $$

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 13:44, David A. Powers  wrote:
> 
> Good for year, I moved to Detroit because I needed a job, and someone in 
> Detroit offered me a job.
> Then I lost the job. Didn't have much money, it wasn't enough to renew my 
> lease, then I got evicted from my apartment, and the money ran out.
> I was literally homeless and walking around the streets not having eaten for 
> a day at one point, when someone intervened and let me live in a basement in 
> the suburbs... Even being homeless, I'd manage to hold on to all my stuff, 
> keeping it in storage in Detroit.
> 
> I managed to make a little bit of money through a couple temporary jobs and 
> found a place to live in Detroit again.
> Immediately after that, my dad died of cancer and all my shit got stolen.
> Literally everything I owned, clothes, music gear, all my vinyl records.
> Only like a box of books and a few clothes and things I had at another 
> location survived.
> And all my income dried up again.
> 
> I would be dead if a friend had not extended their help to me at that point 
> so that I didn't end up on the street.
> Also, if John Collins, hadn't reached out to me at one point, when I was very 
> suicidal, I might be dead.
> 
> Don't fucking judge people when you don't know their stories.
> People who are poor have tough lives no matter what their skin color.
> I moved to Detroit so I wouldn't starve to death, because I needed a job
> 
> Poor people don't get to choose what city to live in. 
> When times are tough and you are broke, you have to take whatever job you can 
> get.
> 
> "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall 
> be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 
> And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest 
> not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
> 
> ~David
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:43 AM Denise Dalphond  
>> wrote:
>> I've never lived in Detroit, unfortunately. I didn't want to gentrify.
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM Denise Dalphond  
>>> wrote:
>>> Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.
>>> 
>>> It's for education. So people don't get confused.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>> ethnomusicologist
>>> schoolcraftwax.work
>>> 
>>> 
 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers  wrote:
 Denise, 

 I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I 
 played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on. 

 First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in 
 order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
 I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously, 
 screw them.

 Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO 
 DIFFERENT THINGS.

 You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and 
 making money! I'm talking about this:
 http://submerge.com/ 

 Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of 
 cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
 How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area? 
 UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money. 
 You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT. 
 All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got 
 hometown recognition.

 Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and 
 part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United 
 States.
 This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the 
 Detroit techno community.
 What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what 
 musicians do to move the music forward in the present. 

 Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I 
 advocate. 
 What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better 
 future together. 
 Building a better future is what techno is all about.

 ~David

> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
>  wrote:
> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement 
> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the 
> instagram account of Underground Resistance. 
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
> 
> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting 
> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are 
> full of people of color. 
> 
> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the 
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I agree, that's why I mentioned "sustainable."

I wasn't trying to criticize UR, but just looking at the facts that markets
change and you have to make enough so that folks can eat.
And I have to solve this problem too, because I'm a musician myself in the
current market.

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> There is a basic misunderstanding here.  Getting paid enough to
> cover the bills and have a reasonable life is important.
>
> Making as much money as possible is not the purpose.
>
> Detroit techno is all about retaining that difference.
>
> Twenty years ago, Sony Japan issued its crappy unauthorized and
> uncompensated remake of Jaguar.  We all understood what that
> represented, and UR made the right choice.
>
> Detroit techno is far more than just UR (and it's also true that
> "the D in Detroit stands for Drama").  But also remember, leadership
> is shown by action, not just words.
>
> fh
>
>
> -
> >Fred,
> >
> >I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
> >I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
> >I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
> >You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
> >Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but
> changes
> >in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
> >The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
> >This is just reality.
> >
> >Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
> >exists at all.
> >But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.
> >
> >Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
> >and the community around music.
> >My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make
> kick
> >ass music.
> >I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
> >I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
> >finding ways to do shit that work, now.
> >And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
> >I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
> >community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
> >succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.
> >
> >Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
> >musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
> >forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
> >as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
> >interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
> >three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
> >participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
> >and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
> >I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
> >keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound
> Signature
> >album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians
> recently
> >and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.
> >
> >I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
> >a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
> >And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???
> >
> >~David
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte 
> wrote:
> >
> >> For those who haven't seen it:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
> >>
> >> fh
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Good for year, I moved to Detroit because I needed a job, and someone in
Detroit offered me a job.
Then I lost the job. Didn't have much money, it wasn't enough to renew my
lease, then I got evicted from my apartment, and the money ran out.
I was literally homeless and walking around the streets not having eaten
for a day at one point, when someone intervened and let me live in a
basement in the suburbs... Even being homeless, I'd manage to hold on to
all my stuff, keeping it in storage in Detroit.

I managed to make a little bit of money through a couple temporary jobs and
found a place to live in Detroit again.
Immediately after that, my dad died of cancer and all my shit got stolen.
Literally everything I owned, clothes, music gear, all my vinyl records.
Only like a box of books and a few clothes and things I had at another
location survived.
And all my income dried up again.

I would be dead if a friend had not extended their help to me at that point
so that I didn't end up on the street.
Also, if John Collins, hadn't reached out to me at one point, when I was
very suicidal, I might be dead.

Don't fucking judge people when you don't know their stories.
People who are poor have tough lives no matter what their skin color.
I moved to Detroit so I wouldn't starve to death, because I needed a job

Poor people don't get to choose what city to live in.
When times are tough and you are broke, you have to take whatever job you
can get.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you
again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:43 AM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> I've never lived in Detroit, unfortunately. I didn't want to gentrify.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM Denise Dalphond 
> wrote:
>
>> Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.
>>
>> It's for education. So people don't get confused.
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Denise,
>>>
>>> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
>>> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>>>
>>> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists
>>> in order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human
>>> body.
>>> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
>>> screw them.
>>>
>>> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
>>> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>>>
>>> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
>>> making money! I'm talking about this:
>>> http://submerge.com/
>>>
>>> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
>>> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
>>> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
>>> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
>>> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
>>> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
>>> hometown recognition.
>>>
>>> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started,
>>> and part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
>>> States.
>>> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including
>>> the Detroit techno community.
>>> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as
>>> what musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>>>
>>> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
>>> advocate.
>>> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a
>>> better future together.
>>> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond <
>>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
 is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
 account of Underground Resistance.

 https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en

 It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
 parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
 full of people of color.

 People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
 true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
 Bank's words to support your opinions.

 Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
 Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Fred Heutte

There is a basic misunderstanding here.  Getting paid enough to
cover the bills and have a reasonable life is important.

Making as much money as possible is not the purpose.

Detroit techno is all about retaining that difference.

Twenty years ago, Sony Japan issued its crappy unauthorized and
uncompensated remake of Jaguar.  We all understood what that
represented, and UR made the right choice.

Detroit techno is far more than just UR (and it's also true that 
"the D in Detroit stands for Drama").  But also remember, leadership
is shown by action, not just words.

fh


-
>Fred,
>
>I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
>I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
>I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
>You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
>Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but changes
>in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
>The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
>This is just reality.
>
>Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
>exists at all.
>But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.
>
>Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
>and the community around music.
>My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make kick
>ass music.
>I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
>I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
>finding ways to do shit that work, now.
>And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
>I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
>community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
>succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.
>
>Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
>musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
>forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
>as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
>interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
>three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
>participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
>and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
>I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
>keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound Signature
>album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians recently
>and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.
>
>I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
>a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
>And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???
>
>~David
>
>
>
>On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte  wrote:
>
>> For those who haven't seen it:
>>
>>
>> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>>
>> fh
>>
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Fred,

I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but changes
in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
This is just reality.

Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
exists at all.
But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.

Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
and the community around music.
My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make kick
ass music.
I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
finding ways to do shit that work, now.
And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.

Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound Signature
album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians recently
and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.

I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> For those who haven't seen it:
>
>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>
> fh
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Hell yeah Mike Rubin.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> For those who haven't seen it:
>
>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>
> fh
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I've never lived in Detroit, unfortunately. I didn't want to gentrify.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.
>
> It's for education. So people don't get confused.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers 
> wrote:
>
>> Denise,
>>
>> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
>> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>>
>> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists
>> in order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human
>> body.
>> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
>> screw them.
>>
>> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
>> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>>
>> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
>> making money! I'm talking about this:
>> http://submerge.com/
>>
>> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
>> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
>> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
>> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
>> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
>> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
>> hometown recognition.
>>
>> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
>> part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
>> States.
>> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including
>> the Detroit techno community.
>> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
>> musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>>
>> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
>> advocate.
>> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a
>> better future together.
>> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>>
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond <
>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
>>> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
>>> account of Underground Resistance.
>>>
>>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>>
>>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
>>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
>>> full of people of color.
>>>
>>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
>>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
>>> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>>>
>>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
>>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
>>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
>>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
>>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
>>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
>>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
>>> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>>>
>>> You're blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>>> *ethnomusicologist*
>>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
 piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
 to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
 Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
 trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
 Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.

 Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most
 is that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
 music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
 community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
 vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
 prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI

 The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
 racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
 of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.

 The real reason you

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.

It's for education. So people don't get confused.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers  wrote:

> Denise,
>
> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>
> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in
> order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
> screw them.
>
> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>
> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
> making money! I'm talking about this:
> http://submerge.com/
>
> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
> hometown recognition.
>
> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
> part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
> States.
> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the
> Detroit techno community.
> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
> musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>
> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
> advocate.
> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better
> future together.
> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>
>
> ~David
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
> wrote:
>
>> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
>> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
>> account of Underground Resistance.
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>
>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
>> full of people of color.
>>
>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
>> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>>
>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
>> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>>
>> You're blind.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
>>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>>
>>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most
>>> is that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
>>> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
>>> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
>>> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
>>> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>>
>>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
>>> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
>>> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>>>
>>> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
>>> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
>>> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
>>> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
>>> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
>>> ago. Almost

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Denise,

I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.

First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in
order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
screw them.

Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
DIFFERENT THINGS.

You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and making
money! I'm talking about this:
http://submerge.com/

Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of cultural
recognition by the city of Detroit?
How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
hometown recognition.

Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
States.
This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the
Detroit techno community.
What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
musicians do to move the music forward in the present.

Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
advocate.
What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better
future together.
Building a better future is what techno is all about.

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement is
> completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
> account of Underground Resistance.
>
> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>
> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
> full of people of color.
>
> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>
> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>
> You're blind.
>
>
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers  wrote:
>
>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>
>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
>> that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
>> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
>> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
>> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
>> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>
>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
>> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
>> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>>
>> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
>> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
>> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
>> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
>> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
>> ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
>> Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
>> is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.
>>
>> In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
>> longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
>> the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Fred Heutte

For those who haven't seen it:

http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space

fh

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Kevin Kennedy

David, without the rest of the world, where would Detroit artists escape to?
I understand what is at the crux of your argument... But I would still
consider that the vitriol comes from the telling of a local story that can
and has been told not only by others, but can be told with a deeper
understanding of the subject.

That's like a biography about your own life story being told with Google
search results and the author never speaks with your friends or family.

I refuse to say that it's OK.  But if we're going to look at RA for a high
standard of academic level journalism...I think we aren't going to find
that.

I am not sure any longer how much I feel about this, I don't speak for
anyone but myself and any reading this should please take a moment to
consider that piece of information.

The truth of the dead is that other people will write your narrative.

And sadly the most odd thing is that there are no 'new' ideas under the
sun... But some enterprising young journalists will always be able to find
an opportunity to rework an old story and make people think of it as a new
one.  "everything is a remix..." isn't just a documentary.

I have no credibility in academia and I barely have credibility in the
world of dance music, though I am rather affiliated with the wonderful
community of Detroit.

However, maybe we should find a way to use what has been another rise in
the activity of this forum for something positive?






On Oct 19, 2018 8:47 AM, "David A. Powers"  wrote:

The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.

Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI

The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.

The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.

In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
musician in the US is $20,000.

By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
planet.

The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and building
sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term, that is
resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy descent as
fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due to the
shifting climate.

I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people are losing their minds
right now engaging in useless debates, but there is real work to be done
and there is

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement is
completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
account of Underground Resistance.

https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en

It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
full of people of color.

People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the true
fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
Bank's words to support your opinions.

Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge. Carl
Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original headquarters.
You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can garner in their
own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't only open its
doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too. Submerge had an
exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You don't know what
current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant scene in the city of
Detroit right now.

You're blind.




*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers  wrote:

> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>
> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
> that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>
> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>
> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
> ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
> Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
> is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.
>
> In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
> longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
> the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
> gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
> vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
> that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
> struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
> musician in the US is $20,000.
>
> By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
> build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
> solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
> sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
> lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
> business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
> planet.
>
> The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and
> building sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term,
> that is resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy
> descent as fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due
> to the shifting climate.
>
> I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
> to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
> infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
> especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
> to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
> build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people are losing their minds
> right now engaging in useless debates, but there is real work to be done
> and there is a need for good people who have the will and vision to
> continue the legacy of

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.

Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI

The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.

The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.

In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
musician in the US is $20,000.

By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
planet.

The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and building
sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term, that is
resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy descent as
fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due to the
shifting climate.

I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people are losing their minds
right now engaging in useless debates, but there is real work to be done
and there is a need for good people who have the will and vision to
continue the legacy of Detroit techno by not only making great music but
also building stronger more sustainable communities. The survival of the
human race in the future might depend on the existence of sustainable
communities that are resilient enough to survive catastrophes.

313 email list, is a good example of a NON-sustainable community--dependent
on a particular form of communication (email list), there was long ago some
sense of community vibe but social media really destroyed that. I wonder,
is an authentic community around the idea of "Detroit techno" something
that is even possible in 2018, outside of living in Detroit and
participating directly, especially given that the list no longer connects
to the actually community of Detroit DJ's and producers. What IS the best
way to connect with people around the music in 2018?

Also, anybody have advice on promoting Detroit techno event in a city like
Austin TX? How can I spread the word about techno in a place where the
focus is mostly on country and singer-songwriters, and along with a lot of
sort of indie pop and punk?

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 6:25 AM  wrote:

> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and
> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention,
> Reflection. It just came out.
>
> Denise Dalphond
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:00, Martin Dust  wrote:
> >
> > Yes it’s real, do you

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I also write my ideas on schoolcraftwax.work

There’s another essay about techno that came out a few years ago that I wrote 
in a book called African American Music: An Introduction. 

Detroiters and techno heads have read my writing and critiqued my writing at my 
request. I’m not working in a vacuum. 

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:29, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2018, at 12:24, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and 
>> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, 
>> Reflection. It just came out. 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond 
>> 
> 
> Then there’s nothing to discuss if you can see it.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Yr Rt. 

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:29, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2018, at 12:24, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and 
>> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, 
>> Reflection. It just came out. 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond 
>> 
> 
> Then there’s nothing to discuss if you can see it.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Martin Dust



> On 19 Oct 2018, at 12:24, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and 
> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, Reflection. 
> It just came out. 
> 
> Denise Dalphond 
> 

Then there’s nothing to discuss if you can see it.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and Moodymann 
in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, Reflection. It just 
came out. 

Denise Dalphond 














> On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:00, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> Yes it’s real, do you not see the logical fallacy in your argument?
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2018, at 11:56, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Is this a real question? Dan Sicko was a actual Detroiter. 
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 05:43, Martin Dust  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Denise,
>>> 
>>> Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?
>>> 
>>> m
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Martin Dust

Yes it’s real, do you not see the logical fallacy in your argument?

> On 19 Oct 2018, at 11:56, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Is this a real question? Dan Sicko was a actual Detroiter. 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 05:43, Martin Dust  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Denise,
>> 
>> Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?
>> 
>> m

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Is this a real question? Dan Sicko was a actual Detroiter. 

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 05:43, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> Hi Denise,
> 
> Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?
> 
> m

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread 313


Im with Denise on this one. ;-P

C

On 2018-10-19 10:43, Martin Dust wrote:

Hi Denise,

Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?

m

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Martin Dust

Hi Denise,

Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?

m

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread David A. Powers

Slavery in all its forms should be ended, that's why I brought it up!
We need to develop sustainable technology that doesn't rely on rare
minerals because of the human and environmental cost.

Have we really reached the point that if I don't explicitly reject slavery
in a public discussion, the assumption is that I'm pro-slavery?

~David

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 3:06 PM  wrote:

> It’s weird to me that you’re justifying slavery because it occurs.
>
> This conversation is taking a fascinating turn.
>
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 14:27, David A. Powers  wrote:
>
> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
> beat. I'm just saying...
>
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
> based on someone's accent.
>
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
> the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
> work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
> the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
> efficient way to exploit human labor.
>
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
> society run by machines.
>
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
> experience.
>
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
> into words.
> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
> If you want ideas, read a book.
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than
> talking about it.
> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential
> wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>
> ~David
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>>
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international
>> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most
>> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity.
>> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the
>> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from
>> London.
>>
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator,
>> I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit
>> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African
>> accent could be perfect.
>>
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>>
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
>> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>>
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread denisedalphond

It’s weird to me that you’re justifying slavery because it occurs. 

This conversation is taking a fascinating turn. 

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 14:27, David A. Powers  wrote:
> 
> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black 
> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of 
> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped 
> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this current 
> example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do believe 
> musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever steps they can 
> to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if someone steals from 
> you there, they better be prepared to get their ass beat. I'm just saying...
> 
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background based 
> on someone's accent. 
> 
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In the 
> global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still work in 
> mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as 
> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the 
> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in the 
> economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the 
> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more 
> efficient way to exploit human labor. 
> 
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a 
> society run by machines. 
> 
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of 
> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to 
> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
> 
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it, including 
> being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and racism, 
> etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which is explored 
> from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural experience.
> 
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put 
> into words. 
> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
> If you want ideas, read a book. 
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than 
> talking about it.
> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential 
> wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda... 
> 
> ~David
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of 
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>> 
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international 
>> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most 
>> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity. 
>> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the 
>> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from 
>> London.
>> 
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator, I 
>> don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit 
>> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African 
>> accent could be perfect.
>> 
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is 
>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to 
>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't 
>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native 
>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that 
>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no 
>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>> 
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely seen 
>> any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could 
>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this, 
>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards 
>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism 
>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in 
>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>> 
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism. I 
>> don't think that's a fair representation.
>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit 
>>> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music 
>>> is only for people of color. White people

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Nice. Must say I'm intrigued. Guess there's no way to attend remotely or
transcripts, though if that's possible would like to see more. Seems
very interesting.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 8:09 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
> https://fhi.duke.edu/events/drexicya-mars-interplanetary-water-mission> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 3:49 PM Alana Blue,
>  wrote:>> Not to add more fire to this discussion but 
> what RA credits isn't
>> even correct. The image is not from RBMA.>> Secondly, I don't consider RA 
>> real journalism. It's a blog for all
>> intents and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite,
>> credit, their sources properly.>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty
>>  wrote:>>> It was DJ Moxie who provided the 
>> narration. White and English. 
>>> 
>>> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote: 
>>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya
 later when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply
 about the context of the music. 
 Cheers,
 Shaun (England)
 

Truncated. Initial reply bounced back due to being too long.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Correction: RA started in Sydney, Australia. I had no idea. More info on the 
link Andrew Duke posted on Facebook a couple of hours ago. Interesting read... 
https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11?fbclid=IwAR1wnHPp9LeevgALatCV4HFankUuF90XVEtSuUNYsrWZ794F-KlkKw5703U

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 7:49 PM, Alana Blue wrote:
> Not to add more fire to this discussion but what RA credits isn't even
> correct. The image is not from RBMA.> Secondly, I don't consider RA real 
> journalism. It's a blog for all
> intents and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite, credit,
> their sources properly.> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty
>  wrote:>> It was DJ Moxie who provided the 
> narration. White and English. 
>> 
>> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:
>>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya
>>> later when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply
>>> about the context of the music.>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Shaun (England)
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers 
>>> wrote: 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact 
>>> of
black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more
common story of exploitation in the music industry: musicians
and creators who get ripped off, whether it's theft by a
manager, record labels stealing, or this current example. This
kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do believe
musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in
the D, if someone steals from you there, they better be prepared
to get their ass beat. I'm just saying... 
 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural
background based on someone's accent. 
 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some
forms. In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the
margins: slaves still work in mines to get stuff that goes into
our high tech gadgets. As long as civilization uses slaves,
there are going to be ideologies that justify the exploitation.
US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in the
economic competition between north and south, and the fact that
the industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had
found a more efficient way to exploit human labor. 
 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to
change in a society run by machines. 
 And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a
 society of machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very
 machines we use to communicate with each other and to create techno
 music. 
 Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
 including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US
 slavery and racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a
 human issue, which is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted
 in a particular cultural experience. 
 Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot
 be put into words. If it could be put into words, then the music would 
 actually be
 redundant! If you want ideas, read a book. 
 The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally
 different than talking about it. Nothing you could say about a 
 Drexciya record, would exhaust the
 potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record
 contains. Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not 
 propaganda... 
 
 ~David
 
 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson >>> os.net> wrote:> __
> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense
> of equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.> 
> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
> international city whose residents are less racist than average.
> It seems that the most racist parts of the world are the parts
> with the least amount of diversity. This obviously because when
> you live and work with people from all over the world you see them
> as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from London.> 
> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear
> more talk of Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya
> specifically, well - an African accent could be perfect.> 
> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that
> it is really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often
> used to manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to
> sow division. Isn't race more a colonial idea, to justify the
> theft of land from

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread Andrew Duke

https://fhi.duke.edu/events/drexicya-mars-interplanetary-water-mission

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 3:49 PM Alana Blue,  wrote:

> Not to add more fire to this discussion but what RA credits isn't even
> correct. The image is not from RBMA.
> Secondly, I don't consider RA real journalism. It's a blog for all intents
> and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite, credit, their
> sources properly.
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty <
> aidan.b.odohe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was DJ Moxie who provided the narration. White and English.
>>
>> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:
>>
>>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later
>>> when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the
>>> context of the music.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Shaun (England)
>>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:
>>>
 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of
 black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
 exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
 off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
 current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
 believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
 steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
 someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
 beat. I'm just saying...

 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
 based on someone's accent.

 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms.
 In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves
 still work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As
 long as civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that
 justify the exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery,
 but also in the economic competition between north and south, and the fact
 that the industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found
 a more efficient way to exploit human labor.

 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in
 a society run by machines.

 And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
 machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
 communicate with each other and to create techno music.

 Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
 including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
 racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
 is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
 experience.

 Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be
 put into words.
 If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be
 redundant!
 If you want ideas, read a book.
 The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
 than talking about it.
 Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the
 potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
 Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...

 ~David

 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
 wrote:

> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>
> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
> international city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems
> that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the least 
> amount
> of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work with people
> from all over the world you see them as human beings. The narrator could 
> be
> black, but from London.
>
> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk 
> of
> Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an
> African accent could be perfect.
>
> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. 
> Isn't
> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>
> I'm lucky

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread Alana Blue

Not to add more fire to this discussion but what RA credits isn't even
correct. The image is not from RBMA.
Secondly, I don't consider RA real journalism. It's a blog for all intents
and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite, credit, their
sources properly.

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty 
wrote:

> It was DJ Moxie who provided the narration. White and English.
>
> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:
>
>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later
>> when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the
>> context of the music.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Shaun (England)
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of
>>> black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
>>> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
>>> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
>>> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
>>> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
>>> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
>>> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
>>> beat. I'm just saying...
>>>
>>> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
>>> based on someone's accent.
>>>
>>> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms.
>>> In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves
>>> still work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As
>>> long as civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that
>>> justify the exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery,
>>> but also in the economic competition between north and south, and the fact
>>> that the industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found
>>> a more efficient way to exploit human labor.
>>>
>>> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in
>>> a society run by machines.
>>>
>>> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
>>> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
>>> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>>>
>>> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
>>> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
>>> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
>>> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be
>>> put into words.
>>> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be
>>> redundant!
>>> If you want ideas, read a book.
>>> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
>>> than talking about it.
>>> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the
>>> potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
>>> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
 equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.

 RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
 international city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems
 that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount
 of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work with people
 from all over the world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be
 black, but from London.

 Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
 narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of
 Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an
 African accent could be perfect.

 I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
 really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
 manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
 race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
 people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
 there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
 black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.

 I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
 seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
 change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
 with respect to people from many places. Things have been

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread Aidan O'Doherty

It was DJ Moxie who provided the narration. White and English.

On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:

> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later
> when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the
> context of the music.
>
> Cheers,
> Shaun (England)
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:
>
>> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
>> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
>> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
>> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
>> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
>> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
>> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
>> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
>> beat. I'm just saying...
>>
>> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
>> based on someone's accent.
>>
>> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
>> the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
>> work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
>> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
>> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
>> the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
>> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
>> efficient way to exploit human labor.
>>
>> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
>> society run by machines.
>>
>> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
>> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
>> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>>
>> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
>> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
>> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
>> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
>> experience.
>>
>> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
>> into words.
>> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
>> If you want ideas, read a book.
>> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
>> than talking about it.
>> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the
>> potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
>> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>>
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>>>
>>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
>>> international city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems
>>> that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount
>>> of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work with people
>>> from all over the world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be
>>> black, but from London.
>>>
>>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
>>> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of
>>> Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an
>>> African accent could be perfect.
>>>
>>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
>>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
>>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
>>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
>>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
>>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
>>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>>>
>>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
>>> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
>>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
>>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
>>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
>>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
>>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>>>
>>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.
>>> I don't think that's a fair representation.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM,

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread Shaun Fogarty

What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later when
I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the context
of the music.

Cheers,
Shaun (England)

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:

> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
> beat. I'm just saying...
>
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
> based on someone's accent.
>
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
> the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
> work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
> the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
> efficient way to exploit human labor.
>
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
> society run by machines.
>
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
> experience.
>
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
> into words.
> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
> If you want ideas, read a book.
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than
> talking about it.
> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential
> wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>
>
> ~David
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>>
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international
>> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most
>> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity.
>> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the
>> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from
>> London.
>>
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator,
>> I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit
>> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African
>> accent could be perfect.
>>
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>>
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
>> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>>
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.
>> I don't think that's a fair representation.
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
>> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music
>> is only for people of color. White

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

The exploitation thing is certainly something, and that's probably the
reason for the animosity. It's not this isolated thing, but stealing
from the cultural heritage - I think I can appreciate that.
100% agree on the slavery thing. Very well put. Also, with respect to
art. Top marks. No further comment.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 7:27 PM, David A. Powers wrote:
> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of
>black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common
>story of exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators
>who get ripped off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels
>stealing, or this current example. This kind of exploitation goes
>on all the time, and I do believe musicians, writers, and artists,
>need to work to take whatever steps they can to stop such theft.
>Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if someone steals from you
>there, they better be prepared to get their ass beat. I'm just
>saying...> 
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
>based on someone's accent.> 
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms.
>In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins:
>slaves still work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high
>tech gadgets. As long as civilization uses slaves, there are going
>to be ideologies that justify the exploitation. US racism is rooted
>in the history of slavery, but also in the economic competition
>between north and south, and the fact that the industrialized north
>didn't need slave labor because it had found a more efficient way
>to exploit human labor.> 
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change
>in a society run by machines.> 
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society
> of machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use
> to communicate with each other and to create techno music.> 
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US
> slavery and racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a
> human issue, which is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a
> particular cultural experience.> 
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be
> put into words.> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually 
> be
> redundant!> If you want ideas, read a book. 
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
> than talking about it.> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would 
> exhaust the
> potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.> Art is 
> open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda... 
> 
> ~David
> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson  os.net> wrote:>> __
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.>> 
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
>> international city whose residents are less racist than average. It
>> seems that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the
>> least amount of diversity. This obviously because when you live and
>> work with people from all over the world you see them as human
>> beings. The narrator could be black, but from London.>> 
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
>> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more
>> talk of Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically,
>> well - an African accent could be perfect.>> 
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it
>> is really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used
>> to manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow
>> division. Isn't race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of
>> land from its native people? These days we should know that we're all
>> the same race, and that there are so many colours. Nobody is simply
>> white or black. There is no black or white. Except, where positive
>> discrimination is due.>> 
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've
>> rarely seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However,
>> things could change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very
>> little of this, with respect to people from many places. Things have
>> been sliding backwards though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans
>> are not responsible for racism in the US. There are people that are
>> responsible, and you'll find them in positions of power, using it as
>> a tool, a method of control. IMHO.>> 
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and
>> racism. I don't think that's a fair representation.>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread David A. Powers

1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
beat. I'm just saying...

2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background based
on someone's accent.

3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
efficient way to exploit human labor.

4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
society run by machines.

And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
communicate with each other and to create techno music.

Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
experience.

Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
into words.
If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
If you want ideas, read a book.
The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than
talking about it.
Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential
wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...

~David

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson  wrote:

> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>
> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international
> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most
> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity.
> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the
> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from
> London.
>
> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator,
> I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit
> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African
> accent could be perfect.
>
> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>
> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>
> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism. I
> don't think that's a fair representation.
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music
> is only for people of color. White people are never excluded from anything.
> And in 2018, unintentional? Please.
>
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club
> culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old
> grampas about it.
>
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
international city whose residents are less racist than average. It
seems that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the
least amount of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work
with people from all over the world you see them as human beings. The
narrator could be black, but from London.
Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk
of Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well -
an African accent could be perfect.
I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it
is really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used
to manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow
division. Isn't race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of
land from its native people? These days we should know that we're all
the same race, and that there are so many colours. Nobody is simply
white or black. There is no black or white. Except, where positive
discrimination is due.
I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things
could change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of
this, with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding
backwards though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not
responsible for racism in the US. There are people that are responsible,
and you'll find them in positions of power, using it as a tool, a method
of control. IMHO.
I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.
I don't think that's a fair representation.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the
> music is only for people of color. White people are never excluded
> from anything. And in 2018, unintentional? Please.> 
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in
> club culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing
> to be old grampas about it.> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:>> As a 
> white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy,
>> and Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly
>> feel comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a
>> lack of sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the
>> case of the unattributed source, they have at least corrected this
>> soon after the issue was raised publicly in the past few days.>> 
>> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya
>> story and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is
>> _all_ about race and racism, should be challenged. There is a
>> cultural context which is certainly important to remember. It's worth
>> remembering too those that were lost in such terrible conditions on
>> their way to America. I would argue that the music is not all about
>> race and racism. The music has a soul and that soul is humanist, not
>> racist. It's not racist towards white people from Europe. Drexciya
>> stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We are each
>> responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The music
>> transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers
>> wherever they may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you
>> don't belong here is not quite what I think is intended by the music
>> either. We are all belong to the sea in some way. It's the strongest
>> idea about it I feel.>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>>> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of
>>> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's
>>> interview with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and
>>> thus this post ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link
>>> (below) re RA that was published Oct 11, just a few days before the
>>> original--uncredited--Drexciya feature. The linked feature on RA is
>>> especially relevant re the mess they made this week and how the
>>> concerns of Denise and others were ignored and 313-moderator Kent's
>>> concerns "downvoted":>>> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond,
>>>  wrote: I told RA what I thought. They 
>>> ignored me. That's what usually
 happens. 
 
 *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
 *ethnomusicologist*
 *schoolcraftwax.work*
 
 
 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor
  wrote:> What about redubbing the audio 
 with you narrating? Make a
> corrected

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread Andrew Duke

Ronnie: Tuesday afternoon FB feeds showed me RA had published a YouTube
video titled same as this thread topic. As a HUGE Drexciya fan, I saved the
link to check when I got home from work. Didn't check the torrent of emails
and messages and notifications that turned out to be related. Tuesday night
I finally had a chance to check it. Tired from OT at work, my ears still
pricked up when I heard my own voice. In a Drexciya feature in 2018. HUH? I
listened again and clued in that my 2001 interview formed the majority of
the James Stinson spoken word heard. Liz Copeland's 2002 interview also
used. I was in shock as no credits. None. And I was already no fan of RA
and other sites like that. I conferred with friends involved in journalism
such as Kent (and Terry at 5 Mag in Chicago) to make sure I wasn't being a
jack-arse being upset about this. Cut to 48 hours later and I am so darn
exhausted. I don't think Liz Copeland aware, so envy the sleep she didn't
miss out on. RA has continued to be an arse. Like Fact a year ago, they
have not gotten back to me. I know they never will. And if there hadn't
been an uproar, certain the credits would never have been added. The Oct 11
feature about Resident Advisor and the site history itself rings so much
clearer in light of all this Oct 16 Drexciya "collage" nonsense posted on
RA. 313 is about Detroit. RA will talk about Detroit if that helps re
advertising $, of course. At least all this has caused more to hear the
voice of James Stinson. That and Drexciya music are what matter most in all
this debacle. Back to work for me. Andrew

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 1:56 PM Ronny Pries (rktic), 
wrote:

> Do I understand correctly that RA used your interview without clearance,
> Andrew?
>
> Am 18.10.2018 um 18:25 schrieb denisedalph...@gmail.com:
>
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music
> is only for people of color. White people are never excluded from anything.
> And in 2018, unintentional? Please.
>
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club
> culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old
> grampas about it.
>
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy, and
> Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly feel
> comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a lack of
> sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the case of the
> unattributed source, they have at least corrected this soon after the issue
> was raised publicly in the past few days.
>
> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya story
> and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is _all_ about
> race and racism, should be challenged. There is a cultural context which is
> certainly important to remember. It's worth remembering too those that were
> lost in such terrible conditions on their way to America. I would argue
> that the music is not all about race and racism. The music has a soul and
> that soul is humanist, not racist. It's not racist towards white people
> from Europe. Drexciya stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We
> are each responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The
> music transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers
> wherever they may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you don't
> belong here is not quite what I think is intended by the music either. We
> are all belong to the sea in some way. It's the strongest idea about it I
> feel.
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>
> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of
> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's interview
> with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and thus this post
> ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below) re RA that was
> published Oct 11, just a few days before the original--uncredited--Drexciya
> feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re the mess they
> made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others were ignored and
> 313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":
> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond, 
> wrote:
>
> I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor <
> callum.macgre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected
> version
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond, 
> wrote:
>
> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread Ronny Pries (rktic)

Do I understand correctly that RA used your interview without clearance, Andrew?

> Am 18.10.2018 um 18:25 schrieb denisedalph...@gmail.com:
> 
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit music. 
> How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music is only 
> for people of color. White people are never excluded from anything. And in 
> 2018, unintentional? Please.
> 
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club 
> culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old 
> grampas about it. 
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  > wrote:
> 
>> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy, and 
>> Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly feel 
>> comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a lack of 
>> sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the case of the 
>> unattributed source, they have at least corrected this soon after the issue 
>> was raised publicly in the past few days.
>> 
>> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya story 
>> and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is _all_ about 
>> race and racism, should be challenged. There is a cultural context which is 
>> certainly important to remember. It's worth remembering too those that were 
>> lost in such terrible conditions on their way to America. I would argue that 
>> the music is not all about race and racism. The music has a soul and that 
>> soul is humanist, not racist. It's not racist towards white people from 
>> Europe. Drexciya stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We are 
>> each responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The music 
>> transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers wherever 
>> they may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you don't belong 
>> here is not quite what I think is intended by the music either. We are all 
>> belong to the sea in some way. It's the strongest idea about it I feel.
>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>>> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of 
>>> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's interview 
>>> with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and thus this post 
>>> ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below) re RA that was 
>>> published Oct 11, just a few days before the original--uncredited--Drexciya 
>>> feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re the mess they 
>>> made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others were ignored and 
>>> 313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":
>>> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond, >> > wrote:
>>> I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>> ethnomusicologist
>>> schoolcraftwax.work 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor 
>>> mailto:callum.macgre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected 
>>> version 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond, >> > wrote:
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James Stinson 
>>> still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that Andrew 
>>> Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>> 
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the 
>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off 
>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of 
>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from 
>>> the colonizer. 
>>> 
>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all 
>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism. 
>>> 
>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
>>> 
>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
>>> 
>>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
>>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>> ethnomusicologist
>>> schoolcraftwax.work 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis >> > wrote:
>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-18 Thread denisedalphond

We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit music. 
How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music is only for 
people of color. White people are never excluded from anything. And in 2018, 
unintentional? Please.

Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club 
culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old 
grampas about it. 

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy, and 
> Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly feel 
> comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a lack of 
> sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the case of the 
> unattributed source, they have at least corrected this soon after the issue 
> was raised publicly in the past few days.
> 
> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya story 
> and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is _all_ about 
> race and racism, should be challenged. There is a cultural context which is 
> certainly important to remember. It's worth remembering too those that were 
> lost in such terrible conditions on their way to America. I would argue that 
> the music is not all about race and racism. The music has a soul and that 
> soul is humanist, not racist. It's not racist towards white people from 
> Europe. Drexciya stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We are each 
> responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The music 
> transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers wherever they 
> may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you don't belong here is 
> not quite what I think is intended by the music either. We are all belong to 
> the sea in some way. It's the strongest idea about it I feel.
> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of 
>> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's interview 
>> with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and thus this post 
>> ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below) re RA that was 
>> published Oct 11, just a few days before the original--uncredited--Drexciya 
>> feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re the mess they 
>> made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others were ignored and 
>> 313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":
>> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond,  
>> wrote:
>> I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor 
>>  wrote:
>> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected 
>> version 
>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond,  wrote:
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James Stinson 
>> still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that Andrew 
>> Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>> 
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the video, 
>> and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off putting. 
>> They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of brilliant, 
>> musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from the colonizer. 
>> 
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all the 
>> way super duper is all about race and racism. 
>> 
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
>> 
>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
>> 
>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>> behind Drexciya.
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>> 
>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>> 
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> Jeffrey J Davis
>> 
>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>> 
>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>> 
>> 218.833.2847
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater