Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: Old AVRs are essentially worthless. They depreciate like computers. Makes sense, really - who wants an AVR that only switches S-video signals? On the other hand, a Dynaco Stereo 70 is worth more now than it was when new (not adjusted for inflation, of course). Indeed, Jason. The pre-amp section alone of common AVRs is cheaply implemented compared to a stand-alone tube pre-amp. My Cary SLP-05 was introduced in 2006 and it remains on the market today with quite a healthy MSRP. Who knew that Dennis Had has any talent!? Engineers who actually design audio gear for a living and who have decades of experience will run circles around Hydrogen worshipers, but they've gotten themselves locked in pretty good. I have a great deal of fun listening to music and adding to my collection. The OP would be wise to consider tube integrated amp. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: False claim based on faulty accounting. At this point a good SS music player (Sansa Clip) can cost as little as $39.95 while the high end version of the same thing (Pono) runs about 10 times that. In ABX testing they can reasonably expected to be indistinguishable. The Clip can only lose $39.95 of its value because then it would be free. The Pono probably loses $39.95 of its value before it has been fully walked out of the store. This also applies when you compare good AVRs to tubed power amps. Can you support your claim that good AVRs and modern, well regarded tube power amps deliver the same audible experience and hold value equally well? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: Just to try if like or not the difference. No pre-conceived ideas but a test. At least these recent discussions motivated me to try different things and make my own opinion. There are any number of pre, power, and integrated amps to consider at various prices points. Same with speakers, of course. What is your current gear and what is a general price point for you speaker budget? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: All the more reason why you should be interested in doing a meaningful evaluation, not a junk one. Have you meaningfully evaluated a highly regarded, modern tube pre-amp in your set-up? Tube power amp? Any of the DACs which we can't even discuss here from the past few years? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: Of course not, because with subjectivist's in the driver's seat, whatever gear I choose to evaluate is automatically disqualified. Interesting. For the record, when I taste something fantastic I find that my reaction is reflexive- a smile, etc. Same thing happens when I experience listening to well reproduced recorded music. Don't even need wine as some seem to. You have avoided this pleasure in the name of science. Way. To. Go. arnyk wrote: BTW modern tube pre-amp and modern tube power amp are oxymorons. Simply, any tube pre, power or integrated released in the last 15 years and still in production. And back on topic for the OP, check out youtube and search 'ELAC Andrew Jones'. He's an actual speaker designer. Also has a physics degree. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: The poor guy grew up (if you can call it that) an irrational subjectivist who lives in a multidimensional logic-tight box, what can I say? I'll bet money JH you can't possibly see that, something about seeing the forest for the trees... I blame my parents. If seeing the forest for the trees by your account necessitates adhering to Hydrogen Audio dogma, then I'll stick with the, er, sticks. As far as I know Jason's career writing about music has turned out ok. Presumably, he's very happy. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: I've obviously, shall we say gently applied corporal punishment to better men than he and that ain't just whistling Dixie! I'm sure Jason's parents are pleased that you feel so strongly that your adult children turned out to be better men than he. Perhaps you could find out where they went wrong and then let us know. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Gandhi wrote: Wouldn't selling transparent stuff for a reasonable price be a very strange scam? Your transparency mantra is hilarious. I'm not sure how you convinced yourself, but I can see where it is convenient for you. Note that when I hit play that the reproduced sound is extraordinary. None of gear is broken or otherwise deliberately designed with flaws. What you hear at home is mediocrity if you are lucky. Transparency and all. Send a local forum member my way via messaging. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Exactly. The recent spate of posts from jkeny appear to be just a trolling expedition. The legendary troll is looking back at you in the mirror. Your constant claim that genuine audiophiles are anti-science is typical, meaningless rhetoric. This ploy isn't new. You may have invented though. It makes more sense to you that any number of thousands of audiophiles from Japan, Germany, France, UK, Canada, US, etc are brainwashed than the far more obvious conclusion which is that you aren't interested in understanding why the gear which I would likely buy reproduces recorded music so much better than mass produced stuff in you would buy. Nah! It's all the most epic scam of all-time. Science. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
bonze wrote: You should know by now that those were his thorough tests. Ridicule is where it's at. Lord forbid Arny escape from Detroit for a few days and listen to some actual household audiophile systems. Nah. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Julf wrote: Can you share any test results that would support that claim? Empirical. My hearing is what matters most. I'm in this hobby because I take pleasure in listening to recorded music reproduced in the home. The experience I've created for myself is not ordinary and all of the components, the room, speaker position, etc contribute. As you know very well, I am willing to work toward scientific test results. Meantime, feel free to track down trustworthy ears to hear for themselves and report back to you. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Civility? If Arny pops in with a hint of respect and civility then I'm going to start questioning whether I've suddenly passed and just don't know it yet. I would be interested in tracking down some Pittsburgh area forum members (or otherwise locals) you folks know who have interest and experience in this hobby. My personal experiences with electronics has been different than the objectivists here and I'm inclined to believe that some seat time with my little set-up will at least start a conversation. Sure, speakers and room have the huge impact, but I am stunned that none of you have experienced large leaps in sound quality from pre-amp or DAC upgrades, etc. So, please message me with any ideas. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: The DACs in the Sony CDP 101 and the Philips CD 100 (the first generation CD players) were almost sonically transparent. The similar parts in the second generation CD players were sonically transparent. Some contemporaneous amps and preamps would pass similar listening tests. Will your CD player and line-stage pre amp sound the same as mine if swapped into your system? And if yours are swapped into mine? Remind me of your gear chain. arnyk wrote: Consider a very short piece of properly shielded copper wire. Can it possibly make an audible change in an audio signal? How long does it have to be in order for the changes that is makes to be audible? It is possible for those with experience to hear differences using any number of sets of similar length (8-10'). Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Is it not true that if the laws of physics hold sway, then devices like jkeny's Regen would be dismissed out of hand? False, generally. You hang your hat on the laws of physics, misapplied or misunderstood, to discredit any product which doesn't fit your world-view. I do not have a USB input for my DAC, so I won't be trying the REGEN anytime soon. I am aware of the overwhelmingly positive results reported by actual customers. That said, I'd need to listen myself. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Mnyb wrote: It's the Cary audio and shynyata stuff in you signature I suppose ? I can try to put it in a non insulting manner . Dear sir i Think you are way down in the rabbit hole imho . meaning you have a considerable emotional and monetary investment in yes woo woo equipment and the audiophile culture such as it is and are not very likely to hear any rational argument about how audio tech really works . Statiscally this state of mind is low probability to be reversible (I and some others have done it ,buts it statistical noise ) . hence the waste of time part . So most counter arguments to your statements about for example audibility of digital source components (which is not a real issue nowadays ) are often really directed to our lurkers and fence sitters ? is it not about 10 times more people reading a tread than participating . Yeah, my woo woo equipment is how I impress people- Dude, check out my pre-amp!!!. I'm so emotional over my gear too. All that money It. Must. Be. Special. You don't know me, but you can presume to based on my system components. I can't stop you. You can trash Dennis Had and get support here from others waiting to pile on. Caelin Gabriel must also be guilty as a fraud. You've decided that. Science. What you or anyone else here won't do is listen. You won't find a trusted source who enjoys listening to music. You won't accept their listening impressions anyhow because science. You wouldn't even trust your own sensory perception because science. Any number of you have found the secret sauce necessary to suck every last drop of enjoyment of the audiophile hobby. Congrats? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Gandhi wrote: What I *have* said repeatedly is that the method you propose of evaluating audio devices has no value. Right. In the same way that you must see your flat panel TV calibration report before you bother to view it. There's no value in popping in a 'reference' blu-ray and, like, watching a few familiar scenes. You want to compare the before and after calibration results first AND THEN you will know how much better the picture quality will look. In fact, I've found that just looking at my calibration report (which is nailed down pretty good) gives me all the pleasure I will ever need. Science. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Effective snake oil pitches are usually based on some relatively inexpensive magic component that will solve some inherent audible system problem. Your efforts to expose a relatively high percent of the audiophile market as snake oil have failed miserably. How much time have you devoted to this failed cause since the 80s? Is there anything that you can do differently which might lead to success? Meantime, do you enjoy foreground listening to whole albums, for example, on your primary audio system? Have you accumulated an impressive music collection over the decades? I'm assuming you enjoy the fruits of your labors even if you've been tuned out by most audiophiles many years ago. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Gandhi wrote: I have no idea whether Regen works and I have never said anything about that. But if it's a quality product it too will be transparent. When did you determine that consumer electronics used to reproduce sound were perfected (transparent)? For example, I'm under the impression that you must have found that the Transporter offers the best possible analog output from a digital source. Did the Transporter exceed the performance of the much less pricey Duet box? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
jkeny wrote: Tell me what published measurements will tell me how a device will sound in my playback system - how it will enhance my sound quality? What? You can't tell me what my eyes will experience if have my plasma panel TV pro-calibrated? I want you to describe the experience to me just as you would describing what it feels like to ride a bicycle. Give me the whole sensory experience in words and then I'll think about whether or note the feeling is worth it. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
I'd still like to know if DACs were perfected prior to the Transporter. This notion that there is a singular perfected sound (transparent) is interesting. I do appreciate the logic that either universally accepted transparency has either been achieved or else there is design flaw. Who can argue against that!? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Archimago wrote: Just a constant stream of criticism/bating which IMO is both interpersonally abrasive and lacking in value. Not surprising that others have asked you to leave. Let's be fair though. The ridicule may be more subtle from the uber-objective members, but it's there in any number of posts. I've been insulted to one degree or another in a decent number of posts. The underlying theme is pretty clear even if rarely flat out stated. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Wombat wrote: Again mods if you read here, jkeny was banned on more than one place already for a reason. Here he is doing his thing again and pollutes the place. Your posts aren't entirely free from insults. The tone of this decades old conversation is rarely polite. And no one gets anywhere. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Wombat wrote: He called a person i discussed with at another place and is known in many forums stupid. What else does it need? Also we often had good times with other daydreaming members. Just remember Magic Carpet :) This is a different calibre. Wombat wrote: Reading your signature alone doesn't leave much room to have an intelligent discourse. Ouch. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Off topic request, but could I get the very, very short list of specialty hi-end audio products which produce no audible change in sound quality. Specifically, I'm only interested in those products which are _widely_accepted_ amongst audiophiles, yet are understood by objectivists to produce no audible change. For example: Speaker wire, Analog interconnects, Digital interconnects, Vibration control devices (such as Stillpoints), etc. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: So jkeny, in your universe, the Laws Of Physics are settled by means of a popularity contest? But Arny, really, you are better than this. Right? No one here is suggesting that popularity supersedes the laws of physics. No one is suggesting that the known laws of physics should be reconsidered either. What COULD BE the case is that your application of the laws of physics is misplaced or misunderstood. I mean, isn't that more likely? We aren't dealing with religion here where a large part of the planet's population has faith in one creator or another. That's going way too far to analogize religious belief, which is 100% blind faith, to the pursuit of audiophiles who buy specialty speaker wire, for example, because they are seeking a better listening experience. I do wonder if you listen to music on your main stereo frequently. How often foreground (versus background)? Is your set-up somewhat ideal? Have you ever heard an improvement where you were satisfied that there was a true audible difference without having to 2nd guess yourself? I mean, do you allow yourself the pleasure of feeling like, hey, this sounds really nice? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Wombat wrote: How i did read lately this regen thing is said to better the sound of all kind of DACs. If i was customer of a serious DAC vendor that is said to work better with the device i would ask their customer support why the USB is broken and why it needs a fix. The reviews indirectly discredit the work of many. Anyone reported a difference in a DAC 2? I wonder if some guys at Benchmark can come up with some proof their hardware needs no regen. Ok, that's a fair point thought I don't see where Benchmark comes into it. The REGEN is addressing the USB output from the computer source. Seems to me that the fix could be implement on the DAC's USB input section. Else, one might suggest that the DAC output of the source could have an integrated fix. Computer audio is a work-in-progress. The competition is white hot and just getting going. Those who turn a blind eye with the belief that digital audio has been perfected some time ago are only going to miss out. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Interesting - jkeny admits it right here in public. All it takes to start a flame war with jkeny is to ask him for some reliable evidence. Do you have any new actual relevant reliable evidence to bring to the table, jkeny? I seem to recall that you were asked for some very specific and relatively easy things to produce. Do I need to go back and pull them out of the threads? It's like a month later - jkeny where is your evidence? ' JOHN SWENSON BIO' (http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-1-what-digital#GPpAKlVDW76l4dwV.97) If you would like to discredit Swenson's work, then just get right to it. Why bother with member jkeny? You are capable of much more. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Why should someone respect anybody who habitually biases their experiences in ways that falsify them, in order to support their cultural beliefs in technical myths? Sure. Set up your straw man and then beat him down. The legend never fails to deliver. For years and years now. I can't tell if it's an act. Well, greatness nevertheless. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
garym wrote: Of course to some audiophiles the above can be summarized by simply reporting that my system is not revealing enough In fairness, this can be a valid point. My system is exceptionally revealing, but I'm well aware that merely reducing ambient noise would make details even easier to hear. I could have better acoustic treatment. I've not addressed component vibration. All that said, the room isn't terrible, the listening and speaker positioning is pretty good, and the speakers are borderline extraordinary. Makes it likely to hear any meaningful detail. If you can't hear an obvious, clear and convincing difference in a supposed upgrade, then no scientific testing is going change that. My CD player, for example, sounds so different in my system than a Transporter that it's as if there are completely different speakers. If I thought that I needed ABX just to be sure, then I'd have never bought it. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Gandhi wrote: But please remember that the burden of proof, from a purely logical standpoint, is on the *manufacturer*. The manufacturer is the one making claims. So the logical step would be for the manufacturer to measure and publish. I'm all for rational, objective scientific scrutiny, but holy cow!! This device can be shipped for what? A couple hundred bucks!? Just buy one and LISTEN. The testimony from actual audiophiles has been overwhelmingly positive. If you believe that the designer is likely to be selling snake oil, knowingly or not, then no scientific evidence is going to matter to you anyhow. I know when I get more pleasure from, ya know, actually listening to music on my stereo. It must be hard to accept, but this hobby can be quite a bit of fun. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
garym wrote: I'm a strong believer in listening tests. Of course if they are not carefully constructed double-blind tests, then they are essentially worthless. (And outside of the audiophile world this statement is not the least bit controversial.) Did you seriously engage in such a test before buying that Benchmark DAC? Nevermind that it isn't much of an upgrade over a Duet anyhow, but how would you know if you could hear a difference or not? If you aren't sure if the Benchmark sounds better, then I can see where scientific confirmation would allow you to enjoy it more. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
jkeny wrote: No, I would say that your carefully constructed double blind tests are very revealing, indeed. Yep, the Benchmark DAC isn't on any short list for today's best at that price. Now, if a Schiit Yggy didn't sound radically different, well, that would be a topic to debate. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: BTW over at the DIY forum, there is a pattern of people who should know better getting derailed with power supplies. All things are possible with sighted evaluations. Did you successfully discredit Dan Wright's Transporter mods? Your fixation on sighted evaluation is special. Have your ever heard a difference in sound quality (speakers, acoustic treatment, etc) without having to undergo double blind ABX? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
On the original topic, here are a few to look out for: totaldac Empirical Audio PS Audio (DirectStream) Chord Lampizator Berkeley Audio Rowland APL Hi-fi Bricasti There are several others too. Great times. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: First off - those are two truly excellent recordings by two true jazz giants. Indeed. ralphpnj wrote: As for audiophile servers perhaps there should be a discussion about whether or not many of these so called servers are actually even servers in the Squeezebox sense of server. By Squeezebox sense of server I am referring to the following characteristics: A central server (computer) which is able to stream via Ethernet or WiFi to a playback device or devices which are located near and connected to stereo system. These devices are capable of displaying information about the files being played. A central server which maintains a well organized database of the files in one's music library. A central server where new files can be added to the music library (and database) by several method - direct ripping of a CD/DVD/SACD or purchasing a download. The ability to control the central in many different ways - at the playback device, via a computer or smartphone/tablet app. The hi-end server market continues to work itself out. For me, I want most of what you suggest except that I want internal storage and a USB output for use with a USB DAC. The wi-fi would only be used for tablet functions. Seems that Aurender and Antipodes have nice products, but prices are going to come WAY down while performance gets even better within another year or two. I'd also the suggest the same for DACs. The competition is white hot and I plan to take advantage in a year or so once the dust has settled. ralphpnj wrote: Now if I am mistaken and there is actually an audiophile server presently available that successfully replicates all the functionality of the Squeezebox system please let me know. However please do not quote me from some review from one of the audiophile publications or from the manufacturers literature but rather from an independent source such as a user forum or customer review. User forum feedback and customer reviews are valuable. Pro reviews have value also. None alone will paint the whole picture. I have a fairly revealing system by hi-end standards, so I'm in a good position to take all available info into account and then decide for myself which products are worth it. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Archimago wrote: JH901. Have you not been running a computer music server all this time!? Did you used to own a Squeezebox? Missing out man! It doesn't cost much to buy a simple quiet/silent computer and storage these days and start the ripping/tagging process! Invest in a good DAC and you'll be able to use it when you transfer things over to the machine you intend to upgrade to in a year or 2 if you're waiting for the market to mature! I ditched CD spinning altogether many years ago upon buying my first Duet. Those were great times! I definitely credit Slimdevices for rejuvenating my interest in this hobby. I upgraded to a Transporter at some point and then began to take a serious interest in building a music collection. Anyhow, I came back to physical disc spinning after probably 3 years or so of full time network. I like my current disc spinner for both redbook and SACD. I'll use these experiences in order to create the best front end set-up that I can afford when the time is right. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
rgro wrote: Truly remarkable. Just when I think Arny's posts can't get any more amazing, he outdoes himself. This is so far afield from cliveb's post that it makes Wrong Way Corrigan look like Magellan. Let us know when you ever become an internet legend. Arnie's work since the dawn of the Usenet and the web will be noted for decades and decades after we are all long forgotten. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Wombat wrote: It is more like fastening the gas pedal with silver screws and claiming the car got faster. It measures the same speed afterwards but the measurement must be wrong because everyone can feel it... Well, at least you respect those whose experiences differ from yours. Clearly. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: Other than for a very few pathological speakers, 12 guage zip cord in reasonable lengths gives ideal, non-improvable performence. I do not believe that my speakers are among the pathological, so I'm going to enjoy second guessing myself. arnyk wrote: If you can't provide a coherent explanation of your beliefs that is consistent with the laws of physics, then there is little but blind faith to explain your situation. I do not associate my beliefs as being inconsistent with laws of physics. arnyk wrote: Getting spendy at the local Rat Shack store or high end audio emporium is no way comparable with the effort required to obtain a basic or advanced degree in EE. It's really pretty insulting to suggest such a thing. Yeah, that was my suggestion. Exactly. I continue to be baffled by your negativity. Maybe start respecting forum members in the same way that you wish to be respected? You aren't the only one with family and friends holding advanced degrees. If that should matter. arnyk wrote: Hopefully you won't, because IMO its a waste of your time under the conditions. Such a great attitude. Appreciated! You've gotta a nice little situation there where you tell me I can't be right and that I can never show that perhaps I am. If you adopted a new approach, then you could send out an email or two and help me make some contacts in my area. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: I think we all are eagerly waiting for you to explain what EE principles explain audible differences. Would it matter? If I cite various links, then you know what will happen. We could hold a conference call with a bunch of Phds who actually design cables and there would nothing said which a few of you wouldn't declare marketing or otherwise BS. The hardcore self-proclaimed audiophile objectivists come across as bitter and angry. Hopefully, we can rise above that here. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
I'm certainly not of the view that known science must be violated in order for it to be true that there are audible differences between speakers connected to a power amp with 12g OFC zip cord versus specialty cable. I don't know how skin effect comes into play, for example. I'm not one to ascribe to magic or blind faith, but I recognize that I'm human. I'm also an audiophile, but that doesn't mean that I'm among those who are desperate to believe just about anything in order to perceive an upgrade in sound quality. I will not be earning a Phd in EE in this lifetime, but at the same time at least I'm making an effort. I am running 12g OFC zip cord from Radio Shack and I'll be doing so for several weeks. Hopefully, I'll be able to engage in a proper blinded ABX at some point. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
cliveb wrote: That said, you are in luck. The known laws of nature do indeed allow for there to be an audible difference between different speaker cables. Bear in mind, however, that the known science that explains this audible difference isn't part of physics. It's part of psychology. As of now, I disagree with the few of you who claim that there are no EE principles which explain audible differences. I also disagree, at this time, that I'm a victim of psychological effect. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: Anyway, you claimed , I am simply asking for an explanation based in EE principles to explain audible differences. You seem to think that the difference between actual scientific evidence and marketing material is a question of opinion/viewpoint. What would be *your* criteria for telling one from the other? My interest in this topic is sincere. Since I can't explain why there is an audible difference in my past experiences, then it seems like a good idea to seek out an answer. The first step will be to participate in a proper ABX. Depending on the result, there will be further examination. Julf wrote: Have you ever stopped to think why that might be? No comment. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Michanders are first class! I sent my cables out Monday and Analysis Plus called today to confirm that they'll be shipping them back so that I might get them before the holiday. Great service. Meantime, I've added -Monk's Dream- and -Tijuana Moods- (Mingus) to my jazz collection. ORG has released these two with original mastering work and the result is fantastic. As to the original thread topic, well, I wouldn't know how to get a productive discussion going. I did try. The market for audiophile servers is heating up and with any luck the competition will result in affordable excellence in no time. Of course, that leads us into a DAC discussion of the top units today. Nagra, for example, worked with Andreas Koch in the somewhat recent past. I wonder how theirs will compare to the hot products from Lampizator? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: Exactly. The same will be true for any suite of listening tests that avoids the traditional pitfalls of casual sighted audiophile evaluations which are: I intend to avoid your pitfalls, so it doesn't make sense that you have such passion for your faith. arnyk wrote: It has long been known that it is impossible to change the minds of True Believers in pseudoscience. They all live in logic-tight boxes, so the traditional tools like facts, Science, and reason don't work with them. Pseudoscience is dangerous, but declaring science as if you are GOD is also wrong. None of you can explain how the laws of physics are being violated. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: 1) There are two different speak wires that after careful sighted evaluations and listening tests appear to sound different, even though all the laws of physics clearly state that this should not be the case. What are these laws of physics? ralphpnj wrote: 2) The same two speaker wires are evaluated using a properly set up and properly conducted double blind test or series of tests and these all yield the same null results, i.e. random guessing, which is exactly what one would and should expect since any other result would mean that the laws of physics are somehow being violated. These random guessing results do not exist though, right? ralphpnj wrote: NEWS FLASH - the laws of physics are not being violated and there is nothing wrong with the DBTs. The error rests clearly with the sighted evaluations and listening tests and not the other way around. The testing results which you wish to exist do not and any testing which defies your religious belief is invalid for any number of excuses. ralphpnj wrote: Add to the above the fact that anyone with a financial interest in proving that one speaker wire sounds better than another speaker wire (e.g. speaker wire manufacturers, professional audio reviewers (I put professional in quotes since calling them professional would be a grave insult to all real professionals) and audiophiles who opened their wallets and purchased audiophile speaker wire) cannot and should not be trusted not to lie or, at the very least, be highly biased. Ah, yes, exactly! Haha. I'd kindly ask you to assist with the testing I hope to engage in. I would like to meet the highest standard reasonably possible. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: But I'm not trying to knock you here since it is quite clear that you are making a very big effort to be very accommodating and understanding. Unfortunately I do know enough about to set up a proper DBT to be helpful. Noted. Appreciated. Any progress made as to the exact specifics of the testing will be posted here. I'll be looking for rational feedback and suggestions. If this goes through, then I want everyone to be as confident in the process as possible. In related news, I will be without my Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval cables for a few weeks. I never did like the bananas on the speaker end, so I'm having them terminated with spades. My previous cables will be used until I pick up some zip cord. I'm not enjoying the old cables, so I'm actually looking forward to a revelatory upgrade. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] power strips/conditioners
Plug a Shunyata Defender into the same outlet as the strip and report back. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103877 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: Between inexperience with doing listening tests that are actually listening tests and therefore put a premium on listener training, and doing listening tests that are by design destined to produce random-guessing type results, it is easy to predict that a bad time will be had by all. This is a classic case of the blind leading the blind, and by blind I mean unknowing and inexperienced. You aren't helping. Is there any chance that you could be convinced to provide support which you believe will increase the chance that a good time will be had by all? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Archimago wrote: For speaker cables, although 14G is likely more than adequate for short lengths, I'd see about getting a roll of 12G just in case one day you want to make long runs. (This is what I did for 30' lengths to reach my surround speakers.) Have fun and let us know how it goes! Thanks! I'll pick up some 12G. Is anyone going to protest that the conductor in my Analysis Plus is 9G? My speakers are listed below, so if there are any specs which create some doubts, then I'd rather find out now. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Now that I think about it, I still have my Zu Audio Wax cables, which have a copper conductor. I'm not sure what gauge or if there are any specs which would create a problem. Anyhow, I've made the switch. I'd intended to do so anyhow after several months with the Analysis Plus. I will eventually get some experience with zip cord once there is some progress on the ABX effort. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What The Future Of Audio Might Look Like In A Digital World
arnyk wrote: Typical of self-defeating audiophile prejudices. arnyk wrote: The potential audible benefits of: is zero. No comment. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103847 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Wombat wrote: I have no exact impedance plots but the Diablo should have no surprise there. A simple 2-way with single mid-bass and Focal chassis does not have low dips in impedance. Noted. Appreciated. Here comes the credit card. My first gear purchase in about 10 months. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: best support I can give you: Do listening tests that involve actual audible differences, or at least have some non-zero probability of involving audible differences. If there is a zero-probability of audible differences, then ABX results will be nothing more than random guesswork. Anyhow, Analysis Plus is HQ'd within 1.5 hours of GPWoods. Shouldn't it be easy for you to discredit their engineers along with their claims? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Archimago wrote: Couldn't find info on these Wax cables. What are they like? Zu Audio Wax speaker cables I think they came out 2001, so they've been discontinued for some time. I can't find a link with specs, but I bet there's something out there. I know that the conductor is copper and they have dielectric shielding since they're directional. I'd been using them for years until I borrowed a few sets from Cable Co last Summer. Both ends are terminated with spades. Note that my speakers are _not_ bi-wired. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf, arnyk, and others: I do intend to round up a couple of academics to administer the ABX. I'll likely take a look at a couple of links on the topic, but I'm not interested in proving my level of expertise it (which will be very little!). Of course, I'd think that anyone following this will want to have as much confidence as possible in the process and results. I will have a tougher time finding folks who will meet the minimum standard for this effort on my own. I suppose I could cold call the most appropriate department or two at CMU and see what happens. Hopefully, one of you will know someone who knows someone at the very least so that I can get the process moving. I'll intend to invest in a pair of cables from Radio Shack as soon as I can get to it. I'm not sure what gauge or model to go for. The test cable will be bare wire terminated whereas my 9 gauge Big Silver Oval are not. Hopefully, that will be ok, else some accommodation will have to be made. Of course I'll engage in my own sighted test. My expectation is that the difference will be laughably obvious during sighted testing. I've never done a blind test so the first time will be the official. I'm not a golden ear expert. I just don't have that level of experience. That said, I'm not one to drop a grand on speaker cables when under $50 will perform just the same. I'm in no hurry and I do appreciate the support so far and I look forward to just a tiny bit more from a few of you. Again, sincere appreciation. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Wombat wrote: Anyone that has experience and can explain what equivalent cheap cord he should choose against the 9 gauge oval? A 9 gauge copper but shorter to have roughly the same resistence or some standard 9 gauge silvered of the same length? If no one here tells me what to get, then I'll figure it out and report back in case there are any concerns. I'll definitely be getting basic copper, but I don't want to screw up in such a way that arnyk, etc will point out where something was botched. Wombat wrote: btw. jh you mentioned you changed sibilance with this cable. Sibilance is very likely to be created with flaws of the tweeter or a tube somewhere. I really wonder how a cable should cure this. Did i get this right? Sibilant passages, in my experience, are challenging for a _system_ to reproduce properly. Sure, the speakers play the biggest role, but in my experience the electronics have a meaningful impact. It has also been my experience that cables make a difference in that aspect, not to mention many others. My speakers have a pretty good reputation, which I can't prove, but I'm confident that their performance closely represents the discounted price (from SRP) that typical informed audiophiles pay. Wombat wrote: Oh, when it is Patricia Barber nothing will help :) My music collection breaks down as approximately 1160 pop/rock/blues, 535 jazz, and 110 classical. Focus of the jazz/rock is around 50s-90s and it will take a few years to fill that out. I have only a tiny percent of typical audiophile recordings and I rarely if ever have time or inclination to give them a spin. I am a music first audiophile with an emphasis on mastering quality. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: Great - still haven't heard back from my old contacts at CMU, and I don't want to be to pushy, so I might wait a day or two before prompting again. Meanwhile, happy to answer any questions. Cool. Appreciated and no rush at all. Ideally, I can meet a few good folks over in Oakland and treat them to lunch while we get to know each other. I'm no academic, but I have a bit of natural curiosity. This should be fun and informative. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
jkeny wrote: Huh? It's jh901's claims (as this is what he is setting himself up for) that are being tested here. And, if it's going to be used as some sort of proof that jh901 can indeed differentiate between his silver cable some cheap copper one, then he will be asked to produce statistically significant results which requires multiple tests - I believe 12 is the minimum but perhaps 15 will be called for. But I don't expect that it will ever get that far because anyone who knows how to do blind testing of any rigour will know not to waste their time on this - sorry jh901 No worries. I can appreciate your doubts. We'll all find out before too long. I am expecting any testing to at least meet the minimum standard of rigor which will satisfy arnyk and others here. I'll be disappointed if I can't identify the X as A or B for 12 samples, but I'll have to revise that view if my sighted testing raises unexpected challenges. My understanding is that several of our fellow members here claim that there is no difference in sound quality between basic copper zip cord and professionally engineered hi-end audio cables (irrespective of conductor, dielectric, etc). So we aren't even talking about an entry line audiophile cable versus a flagship. I would not claim so boldly that I will choose that X correctly as the difference will likely not be nearly as great as what I'm anticipating. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What The Future Of Audio Might Look Like In A Digital World
The basics of Audyssey in modern AVRs/AVPs are about as easy as one could expect. I'm personally not interested in this sort of calibration or DSP for audiophile hi-end stereo systems. I'm mostly interested in the digital transport developments, USB DACs, and the possible integration of the traditional line level pre-amp into the DAC unit (direct to power amp). I'd certainly like for their to be a digital world where the DSD layer of SACDs can be ripped legally and just as easily as the PCM layer can. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103847 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
jkeny wrote: Yes, I don't mean this in a sarcastic way but it's obvious that you haven't done a blind test before - you don't realise what it entails as I've tried to point out in my advice. You are walking blindly into a test that will embarrass you some people are very happy to let you do so. Noted and appreciated. I will dig into your earlier posts. jkeny wrote: I predict that you will be turned down by all at CMU as they realise it would be a waste of their time unless you bring some experience of blind testing to the table can show that you already can differentiate Well, I'm not looking for academics looking to score for themselves, but rather some curious guys looking to have a little fun for a couple hours. There must be Phd students, etc who have an interest and who take pleasure in donating a little time. Guess we'll see. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
jkeny wrote: As per the Gearslutz thread, it shows that the first step is identifying isolating a specific aspect or artifact in the music that can be focused on during blind testing. Without this step there is absolutely no point in going any further as I advised JH901 Noted. I suppose I'll ABX with between 3-10 passages that I'm familiar with. We are talking about cables here so it shouldn't be as challenging as source resolution (16/44 vs Hi-res). I expect dramatic differences and if I don't experience that sighted, then I'll report that here. If all goes as expected then I can have a friend help with a blind test before the official. I'm not out to pull an I told you so! and I don't expect to be treated that way if the findings are different that what I claim they'll be. If I follow at least some of your advice then I'll know that an ABX is going to be beyond my ability before setting up the official. Frankly, I've never ABX'd throwing a thick blanket over my speakers, but I doubt too many would doubt that the sound quality is diminished appreciably. I expect to find a difference in sound that is not too far off from that example. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
jkeny wrote: I think it wise to do as you say but forget about the blanket - close your eyes or some such blinding technique Ha! Yes. I was referring to throwing a blanket over the speakers such that the sound is muffled. I was suggesting that it would be easy to be blinded and hear that different and that I expect nearly that dramatic a difference between my cables and copper zip cord. Well, confidence has a way of taking revenge, so I'll be smart and take as much advice as I can! Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What The Future Of Audio Might Look Like In A Digital World
ralphpnj wrote: I can understand your dismissal of using DSP in an audiophile hi-end stereo system but what about using DSP and DRC (digital room correction) to produce a stereo system that is not only much less costly but also much less complicated (music server + an all-in-one stereo speaker system) than a more traditional hi-end stereo system and yet, now here is the kicker, sounds at least as good as the traditional stereo system. Good sound that affordable for many more people, is that so bad? I don't necessarily have an argument against the notion that DSP+DRC can deliver good sound that is affordable to nearly everyone. I can tell you for sure that I wouldn't anyone to believe for one second that it takes the investment I've made in order to create a rather special experience. The 'music server + an all-in-one stereo speaker system' may very well may bring the home stereo system back into the mainstream. Wouldn't it be great if ten or twenty percent more families would spin records together rather than watching tv on those nights when there's nothing good on!? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103847 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: Indeed. If you need guidance in how to conduct a proper blind ABX test, Arny is a really good source for information. I also suggest reading the two applicable ITU standards, 'REC BS 1116' (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.1116-3-201502-I/en) and 'REC BS 1534' (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.1534-2-201406-I/en). Noted. Julf wrote: Seems my contacts at CMU have moved on (to Google, among other places), but I have asked for pointers. Ok, I'll be off the forum for a few days anyhow. Once we get a lead, then I'll head down the path of a meet and great, etc. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk or others- I reside close enough to Carnegie Mellon and Univ Of Pittsburgh that perhaps one of you can help me track down someone qualified to set up a proper experiment to objectively determine if I can discern between my current speaker cable and a common copper cable (zip cord or the like). I don't think it will take much time for a couple of qualified Phds to switch cable back and forth on 5 or 10 agreed upon music selections. Alternatively, I'd have to call around until I figure out who speak with and, of course, then I'll have to prove their qualifications. I'll do the legwork, in other words, but I merely need a legit place to start. Note that I'm not the audiophile equivalent of a master sommelier. That said, in a tightly controlled situation, I submit that I'll pick out my cable 8 or 9 out of 10. Honestly though, I expect to get all 10 (or 5 or whatever we decide). I'll be focusing on sibilant passages, but I expect to be able to hear any number of shortcomings in the zip cord. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How flame wars start
arnyk wrote: After watching you work over other participants on the grounds of their credentials and worthiness to give advice, I figured that would be something that you would understand. Or, are there one set of rules for you, and another set for everybody else? While I think that your description of my most unfortunate posts goes a bit far, I do offer my apologies. It isn't fair to expect to be treated with civility and respect without returning the favor. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: False claim. Whining about information that you intentionally put into the public domain just makes you look immature and silly. I don't claim to be putting info into public (on Twitter), but doxxing can start by digging around for easy stuff and then escalating. I haven't posted anything here which rises to the level where a fellow member should be compelled to go down that road even just a tiny bit. arnyk wrote: Letsee, there was a rational discussion going on, you jumped in and made a number of insults, and then got back a fraction of what you put out. My sincerest apologies for all indiscretions. I posted a couple of links intended to generate rational discussion. I'll post more cautiously going forward. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
pinkdot wrote: Just 'Tweet' (https://twitter.com/jh901) him if you want to know :-) You into Doxxing? Is that what we've come to? Over audio gear? As for Ralph, well, he's out to win. I don't know what he's ever won in the past five years here. Arnyk has the makings of an internet legend. Clearly borderline into Doxxing too, which is just awesome. He did invent ABX though and he's always got science on his side. Super. Keep in mind that that there are passionate audiophiles who post to forums in order to share and learn about the hobby and not to go to war with the hopes of declaring victory. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How flame wars start
arnyk wrote: Of course it is OK, but don't I get to ask by what means the claim that better sound quality than what I are happy with even exists? Inherently highly flawed sighted casual audiophile evaluations in a untreated room using a random collection of audio gear assembled by a person with no technical credentials? Do you recommend the audio components in your primary system to others? Are you pleased with the sound? If these components are representative of the best achievable sound quality, then I'll be interested. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Member arnyk is indeed a legend, but I hadn't come across his wisdom personally just yet. I can't comprehend what could drive a person and others like him to such lengths. I'm not going to suck all of the joy out of life. There are no doubt passionate hobbyists of all sorts who become, well, a bit eccentric or otherwise unhinged. I guess it's easy for arnyk to lump everyone who doesn't fully agree with him into that group. He must be happy though. I'd love hear his audio system and see what music he's interested in. Same with Ralph. It's a fascinating hobby. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: More than happy to - I have old friends at both places. Right now my network connectivity is a bit spotty as I am travelling in Provence in France, but as soon as I am back in Amsterdam with proper network connectivity and spare time, I will contact suitable people - I am sure they will be able to accommodate you. Super! And I'd guess that arnyk will have some advice too. No timeline, so whenever you have time. Ideally, I can get a couple names of academics who understand the exact nature of the blind test (and perhaps EE) and who will be interested enough to meet with me over lunch to discuss and make plans. I don't see how the actual test could take more than two hours and I'd expect that there will only be myself and two others involved. My power amp sits between and a little behind the speakers, so switching the cables isn't difficult. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: Pretty much, yes - blind faith in the reliability and repeatability of your ear-brain system as a measuring device. OK, I am over-simplifying here, but when you hear an improvement as a result of changing some gear, how do you actually know it is not because of being in a slightly better mood that day - or because you know the gear cost $15.000, was designed by a famous designer, and praised in the audiophile press? There isn't an explanation that I could give where you're going to say, yeah, I get it now. There just isn't. I do hope that we can agree that there is some middle ground between blind faith and measured, scientific certainty. When you hit play next time that you spin a familiar recording, don't you have a pretty good idea of how it's going to sound? Sure, mood and other factors will impact your relative enjoyment and one could argue that the sound will be perceived as better when everything is just right. But with that said, you are still going to hear a familiar level of fidelity. So, what if you take thick blankets and put them over the speakers? Your mental state will be altered because you know that you just did something with should kill the sound quality. But don't you think that, irrespective of that, you can hear a difference from the sound you've been experiencing for months and years? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: There are things that are quite probable, despite not being absolutely verified. Then there are things that are extremely unlikely, and violate known laws of physics. Accepting the later without any sort of actual evidence would be extreme blind faith. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If I ever make a claim which defies the laws of physics, then I'd expect to be corrected and I'd be happy to learn something. I don't see where speaker cable comparison falls into that category, for example. Rational skepticism is healthy. Julf wrote: I am pretty sure you often hear a difference when there is a real difference to hear - the problem is that you can also hear a difference when there is no actual, physical difference. We each have different levels of experience. I'm quite familiar with my own system and how it sounds. I wouldn't claim to be able to waltz into an unfamiliar room with unfamiliar gear (and music) and be able to make meaningful claims Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Julf wrote: Could we please try to do without all the personal attacks/insults? Maybe we need our own version of Godwin's Law - when you have to resort to personal attacks, you have already lost the discussion. You're ok with the doxxing though? And the actual personal attacks that I'm getting? What discussion did I lose? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: That doesn't quite address my point. Assuming you are indeed familiar with the sound of your own system, it still begs the question on knowing if the difference caused by introducing a new, hitherto unfamiliar, improvement actually makes a real, physical difference or not, independent of what differences you perceive. That's right and that's where experience comes into play. My listening skills are nowhere close to extraordinary, but I've been doing it for long enough that I know when I hear a dramatic change in one or more aspects of fidelity. I'm not trying to sell cables and electronics, so I don't need come armed with data in order to have a civil discussion in an audiophile forum. Sadly, hardcore objectivists can't seem to help themselves. If I want to ask about the new Lampizator GG here in this thread, then I better be ready for attacks on the engineer, claims that all DACs are the same, bits are bits, and so on. If there is positive feedback, then those folks are fools. If there are positive pro reviews, then the reviewer is a paid shill. If I get one myself and describe what I'm hearing, then my perception is goofy. Yeah, such a fun hobby! Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
rgro wrote: I don't think the fidelity or engaging sound of your system is really the issue that julf is addressing. While I can't speak for him, I suspect that he would, indeed, enjoy listening to your system. And not only that, but I would also expect that an actual scientific listening test would reveal that your system sounded different than his (different, not better or worse, which is subjective). julf or any others with experience in foreground listening should be able to express a relevant, subjective view of enjoying aspects of sound quality on one audio system better (or not) than on another. Sure, this doesn't mean that everyone is going to agree. What happens when julf watches blu-ray content on a calibrated Panasonic plasma and describes the picture quality as being particularly exceptional in certain ways? It's easy to measure picture quality for the most part compared to sound quality, but isn't it ok to take note of relatively compelling picture quality compared to a basic panel without having to verify the perception with measurements? rgro wrote: The question julf is trying to get at is whether or not you, or me, or anyone else can actually and reliably, with an unsighted scientific, precisely controlled listening test, discern any difference at all (again, not better or worse) between, say, two different brands of speaker wire, or interconnects, or usb cables, etc. (speakers are typically left out of this discussion). This is an AUDIOPHILE forum though. Besides, there is no hard scientific fact which proves that vastly different materials and designs directly in the signal path do not impact sound quality. I can 100% guarantee that I can discern my cable, in my system, from zip cord. Keep every variable the same, including the source recording, the volume, etc and I will nail it every time. I shouldn't need to submit an academic paper. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How flame wars start
arnyk wrote: Convince me that you are worthy of them! Why does it even occur to you to say that? Here we are on an enthusiast forum and I have to prove that I'm worthy of advice? It's taken many, many years to get to the point where my system currently is. I've built a pretty decent music collection, which grows by the week. I've never enjoyed listening to music in the foreground any more than I do now. It isn't clear to me why this forum is the wrong place to engage in meaningful discussion. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: Unfortunately that is a somewhat unscientific thing to say. We are back to Theory of Knowledge 101 - How do I know what I know?. No, of course not - but if you are going to make claims, or challenge statements by people who actually have not only the scientific and engineering knowledge, but also the actual empirical data, then yes, you should bring some actual data to the table. Aren't you taking this how do I know what I know a little too far? I have practical experience as an audiophile who simply wants to enjoy listening to recorded music which is exceptionally reproduced. I'm not making the sort of claims which warrant academic scrutiny. Julf wrote: Depends on whet your hobby happens to be. If you want to actually understand how sound reproduction technology works, then you have to accept that technology is based on science, and realize that you have to apply science when discussing it. I'm more interested in the sound quality. I listen to music and I strive for it to sound better. If there is a design flaw in the engineering, then sure, I'll want to know about it. I spend several hours/wk listening to my main system and the last thing I'm thinking about is how great the science is. My recent posts several pages back were on-topic and sadly it has not yet been possible to calmly and respectfully discuss the topic of digital players today. Is it wrong to think that you or a few others might actually sit in front of a stereo and actually have a reaction to the fidelity? Wouldn't there be merit to your description of what was heard, irrespective of the inability to scientifically attribute what was heard to one component or another? How would your view change if you listened to music on my system only to find that the experience was far more engaging than you could have imagined? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: I did write quite a bit about it, but sorry for writing it in a language that must give you some problems as far as reading comprehension goes, because you seem to know nothing of it. Do you have a reputation within hi-end audio? I find it hard to believe that you've been able to contain yourself to this tiny forum. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: Well Ralph did what he did, but I followed my studies of electronics through the Master's level and took PhD level classes in dynamic system design which is includes many advanced studies in electronics. So, you've never designed an audio product of any kind? Specifically, have you been involved with the design of audiophile speaker cables or component interconnects? If you are an authority, just as Ralph is, then let's hear something definitive. Will cheaply manufactured 'Radio Shack' cables enable a component audio system to perform its best? Any differences in sound quality versus audiophile cables? As for the topic of this thread, do you have anything to say? Is it meaningful to discuss USB DACs and the related products and accessories which have come to market recently? Are all USB cables the same? Is there any merit to a device such as the Uptone Audio REGEN? Perhaps we could invite a respected and accomplished industry professional to participate in a QA with you since you'll be able to ask the right questions and pose appropriate follow-ups. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Does hook-up wiring within a component make a difference? Do any of the parts, which vary in quality, make a difference? Just stick with DACs. What parts matter, if any? The '901' has nothing to do with Bose. Good grief. This place is amazing. It's just that I can't see how it hasn't been discovered yet. Member ArnyK should be a legend. Ralph, you'd be in line right behind him. Oh, and what is the science which suggests that all conductors and dielectrics are the same with respect to sound quality? I can 100% guarantee you that there is a difference in my system. Finally, what is the science with suggests that all USB cables will be the same? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How flame wars start
Julf wrote: Well, I am sure you will explain, using facts and logic, what was wrong with those statements. Do you ever take yourself seriously? Are you an audiophile? Are you proud to align yourself with ArnyK? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: The only respected and accomplished industry professional that you would happy is some snake oil vendor like Peter Belt or Geoff Kait. Or perhaps one of the professionals from some audiophile cable manufacturer - whoever it might be, it would be someone with an agenda. Ooh. Fancy. Tell me what I've said and then shoot it down. ralphpnj wrote: A well made Radio Shack cable will sound no different than ANY and ALL over priced boutique audiophile cables. You could not be more wrong. You're telling me that the conductor doesn't matter? The geometry? The dielectric? ralphpnj wrote: And yes, all properly functioning USB cables that meet the minimum specifications for USB cables will sound exactly the same. Wow. Science, right? ralphpnj wrote: Oh and please post a link to all YOUR audio engineering credentials (diplomas, products designed, built and sold, etc.) or shut the hell up because I'm getting really tried of your personal attacks. And while you're at it try finding the same credentials for any of the clowns that write for the various high audio magazines and web site (hint: don't spend too much time looking, since it's just a fool's errand). Personal attacks? Are you ok, Ralph? Feel free to shut me up, though. It is your forum. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How flame wars start
arnyk wrote: Unfortunately Most Audiophile culture believes that: (1) Arithmetic doesn't matter so 2 + 2 = 5 may sound a little strange but so what? (2) Their personal Casual, Sighted Audiophile Evaluations are what matters most (3) Science doesn't apply to Audio Logical fallacies or otherwise flat out misrepresentations. Well done. Science! Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
philippe_44 wrote: peace ? If we could get these guys all into one room it would be epic. Film it for youtube and post on several forums. Wow. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: Do you? And what does reputation within hi-end audio actually mean? I did not claim to have invented ABX testing. I never claimed to have an engineering background and I certainly didn't claim to have ever designed any gear. So, if I dismiss a product based on an understanding of science, then you call me out on it. I'm amazed that so many of you are so eager to make definitive claims without having any real experience. It's astonishing, really. Are any of you interested in improving your current system (beyond speakers and room)? I am. I have done it over and over for many years. The results are amazing and they are very real. I didn't buy any of the gear that I have just for the thrill of swiping a credit card. None of it. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Blind faith? ABX? Look, I don't expect everyone to run out and drop a few grand on fancy speaker cables just because I suggest that there's an appreciable difference. At the same time, I mean, blind faith!? I have to ABX or else it's blind faith?! My room is not professionally treated but I've made an effort using cylinder bass traps and rule of thirds positioning. I have decent gear. Believe it or not, upgrading 20 times over the course of several years has a HUGE impact. When I change cables now, then I can easily hear differences. It isn't subtle. No, it isn't the same as moving speakers from the corners out to proper position, but it's dramatic enough that there is no doubt. So, when we get to DACs, well, the improvement can be extraordinary. I can't prove it with the written word. Any of you can try out some things for yourself though. You've got to have a pretty bad room and bad source material if you can't come up with any improvements. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How flame wars start
Julf wrote: No. Just someone who likes good sound quality. Is it ok if there are some who desire even better sound quality than what you are happy with? Julf wrote: I am proud to support evidence-based science rather than faith and old wives tales. Do you see how you are relying on logical fallacy here? None of the top audiophile amp, DAC, or speaker designers rely on faith or wives' tales. I don't either and neither do any number of informed audiophiles. It isn't appropriate to more or less libel everyone involved. If I report that I'm hearing a dramatic improvement in various aspects of sound quality when I switch to my current front end from the Transporter, then the last thing you should be thinking is that I'll have to prove it by setting up a testing environment that you approve of. Design matters. Quality of parts matters. The reputation and prior achievements of the head engineer matters. Yes, they engineer with sound principle. They do measure and test. They also listen. If you really enjoy sound quality then there is no better time to go for it. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103849 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Julf wrote: A couple of pointers to peer-reviewed publications where engineers document those strides (based on empirical data) would actually go a long way. If you are paying me, then I'll try to prove my worth. Julf wrote: I prefer to spend my time reading scientific publications, as well as implementing, measuring and testing my own audio systems. Good for you. Interesting, actually. Start a thread. You've got a good thing going for yourself. Why bother crapping here though? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
ralphpnj wrote: Like I said the pleasure is fading since t is getting to be too much like shooting fish in a barrel. Seriously, I feel sorry for you and others such as yourself. Your internet persona is destructive. Kill it off and just calm down and try to engage in a civil discussion. You don't know everything. Accept that this is a GOOD thing. Is there anything better than exercising one's curiosity!? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: We do it all for one very simple reason which is that we are attempting to keep budding audiophiles from falling down the same rabbit hole that you did. Oh and to try and save them lots, lots and lots of MONEY! Now please understand most of my posts and rants are against individual audiophiles but against what I will call the audiophile establishment - the magazines, web sites and manufacturer's marketing departments who throw reason and science under the bus in an effort to make money from fools. If you would like to write something that would change my point of view then please explain to me how a full time magazine editor or writer could possibly afford to own $1000 USB cables, $1000 power cords, $2000 speaker wire, $1500 interconnects (several sets at least), $15000 DACs, $2 pre-amps. $3 power amps and $15 speakers. Inquiring minds want to know. Wow, you think so highly of yourself. This is an AUDIOPHILE forum and there any number of products which you can't afford or otherwise wouldn't be interested in that are worthy of sincere, intellectually honest discussion. You do not have an inquiring mind. Please try to accept it. It is shocking that you believe that only those who can afford a given product are capable of reviewing it. Ever read Automobile Magazine!? Is there anyone here who would like to discuss the contents of the Audiogon Forum link I posted? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: Now I would be much more inclined to read Jacob Heilbrunn's reviews without thinking that he is writing to make the manufacturer happy (and therefore extend the length of time that the equipment under review is being loaned to him). By the way, where might one find Mr. Heilbrunn's reviews? 'SEVERAL HERE' (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/?authors=21) I don't agree with every written word of his or any others necessarily. Reviews can be useful though. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: We have a new AUDIO TRVTH here - that there is necessarily an audible degradation due to: (1) Playing music files off of a local PC (2) Playing mulsic files off of a server sing uPNP and/or DLNA. (3) Playing music files off of traditional moving media (Hard drives) Why should this be true? Is your curiosity sincere or do you have a preconceived notion? I'm interested in this topic and there is much to learn about it. Some topics, such as playing music files stored on a traditional Windows laptop, are going to result in discoveries which may contradict previously held beliefs. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: Please explain to me how a full time magazine editor or writer could possibly afford to own $1000 USB cables, $1000 power cords, $2000 speaker wire, $1500 interconnects (several sets at least), $15000 DACs, $2 pre-amps. $3 power amps and $15 speakers. Inquiring minds want to know. Someone who is committed full time to hi-end audio over the course of a couple decades very well better have on hand a good number of proper cables, cords, etc. There are few reviewers who own $150,000 speakers. Jacob Heilbrunn is an exception in that he's only part-time reviewer. He is independently wealthy from his career. I'd guess he's got close to $1,000,000 into his main system. I'm not sure what that might bother you. Thankfully, guys like him are passionate about this hobby and have writing skills. We can learn from these guys even we don't agree with every word. Try to enjoy this hobby and maybe stop taking so much pleasure at popping off. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
ralphpnj wrote: I rather enjoy taking potshots at the kool-aid drinking audiophiles but I have to admit it is getting to be too much like shooting fish in a barrel. This is the Audiophile sub-section, so why would those who aren't interested in such things post here? If you were the moderator, then would you encourage thread-craps and personal attacks? Finally, what does it say about you and few of your followers who derive such pleasure from attacking others? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: Mr. Jenkins may be a very nice, well informed and well educated person but he is trying to sell something and that make him, first and foremost, a salesman and I never met a salesman who wasn't above lying to sell his product, although I do believe that all the little electrons in the Antipodes servers are perfectly aligned as they pass through all those magic circuits. The guys who designed your Transporter and your other electronics would be able to set you straight. That last quote from you on your experience with power supplies is fantastic though. I could see that nugget making you famous. Imagine if hundreds began reading this forum. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
ralphpnj wrote: Vacuum tubes have a place in the world but that place is no longer in the world of audio equipment. Enough said. Actually, you didn't say anything worthy of posting in public for all to read. You have no background in amplification circuit design. You can only get away with this sort of declaration for so long until you are called out. Let's turn this ship around, Ralph. You don't need to be humiliated. Change the tone here on your own. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
ralphpnj wrote: Also please stop trying to change this one little island of sanity in the online audiophile world into another worthless pile of garbage like most of the other audiophile forums on the web. For example like the audiogon forum you keep on promoting. Hahahahahahaha! Wow. Anyhow, take a careful read through that thread over a few days. Lots to learn there. Heck, you can sign up and set them straight if there's anything you can help with. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | Rule of Thirds for speaker sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
