[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
jonheal;144982 Wrote: Hot model, alright, but the stupidest product name ever. Actually... both seem to pull from the same source. Mr. Sooloo. I'll be in the Transporter room... -- Yannzola Yannzola's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=874 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Yannzola;150549 Wrote: Actually... both seem to pull from the same source. Mr. Sooloo. I'll be in the Transporter room... Bravo!! -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
cliveb;149996 Wrote: The client can still run on the server hardware - the critical issue here is that the client keeps a connection open to the server, does some clever caching, and avoids using something like HTML/XML/whatever as the data transfer language (which requires parsing by a fairly complex process just to display it sensibly). The remote control device is just the human interface - think of it as like a special purpose wireless keyboard/monitor. Incidentally, Rob's PM also mentioned that their control panel component has a gigabyte of RAM for caching (no surprises there). What would be interesting is to find out how quickly the system is ready to rock after a cold start up. Well certainly a gig of ram cache is going to take some finite time to load...unless its never really flushed/turned off. I agree the client can be as fat as you like on the client/server box...but on my remote I'd like a Citrix-style ultra-thin client, with the performance coming from the fat client/server. The UTC could be in firmware on the remote - all the caching etc would be on the client/server box(es). As for all this mumbo-jumbo about clever use of metadata and dbms's...I've pretty much seen all the funky dbms's out there - some of which are indeed blindingly fast/scalable in single user read-only mode (eg Aruna) and use vector maths and mass-tokenisation instead of conventional storage paradigms. I've seen a modest PC running one these out perform a 72-way 1.2Ghz Sun F15k running Oracle on complex queries with 10 joins to multi-million row tables... Nobody needs to write their own dbms unless they are masochists. Oh and Metadata is just data about data. It's NOT special!. Any serious db (eg SYBASE, Oracle) stores its own metadata in its normal internal relational structures - they always eat their own dog food because it's a way of saying if we had a faster way of handling the metadata we'd use it on the normal data - but we don't. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Funny, but I also got a message from Mr. Darling -- same business about their wonderful components, custom DBMS, etc. And, this gem: Those who want to spend the time to use iTunes and computer based solutions won't buy a 5-6k system any more than a 15k system. So we make a top-shelf system that requires no hassles and charge what is fit for the equipment necessary to do that. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. I personally own some $30k worth of audio gear. I know people who own less and substantially more than me who use iTunes as a primary or secondary source. The Squeeze Box/Transporter are just that flexible -- and so is iTunes. In a lot of audiophile systems, $5k would be considered more or less entry-level. Think about it. Good quality monitors, used, can be had from $1,600-$2,500 or so. You're into perhaps a bit less for a used amp, and then you need your pre (well, maybe), cables, stands, etc. Boom, you're at five grand, easy. The next step up, and especially if you buy some or any new components, really does get you upwards of ten grand. And we don't use iTunes? Slim Devices products are that good. Yes, they really, really are, and the touch-screen monitor that has to sit on a desk or some other place and doesn't allow you to surf your collection and Internet radio from your chair or sofa is an expensive and frankly far less practical gadget. Lastly, I just can't believe that anyone would find iTunes or a Transporter hard to use or too slow. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
To repeat a previous question by another... so what is with the name Sooloos... how was it arrived at, what does it mean? MC -- ModelCitizen Now what? Squeezebox3 (linear PSU) Benchmark Dac1 Naim NAC 82 Naim NAP 250 Shahinian Arcs. Plus other irrelevant, superfluous and annoying black boxes. Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Just took a look at the YouTube video of the Sooloos in action. BlueBlast;149640 Wrote: First: Its not just a standard PC with a nice UI. They did a fair amount of their own custom hardware as well as database work. They may have done some custom hardware, but that doesn't mean what the system achieves can't be done with commodity H/W. As for database work, presumably that means they designed a suitable schema (just like the Slim Devices folks did). Nobody in their right mind would build their own proprietary DBMS for such a device. BlueBlast;149640 Wrote: Second: Its blazingly fast. The response time is much much better than any Windows/Linux media server I saw at CEDIA. Indeed it is. But what they achieve shouldn't be rocket science. Let's be generous and say that the metadata + cover art for an album is as much as 10kBytes. Even with a fairly large music collection of 10,000 albums, the total size is 100 MB, which can easily be completely cached in RAM. Add to that a bit of intelligent pre-preparation of all the possible next screens that can be linked to from the current one, and you arrive at the very slick performance we see. But the point is that it can all be done with off-the-shelf inexpensive hardware. What this device *should* be doing is making people ask why so many other media servers have such sluggish UIs (Slimserver, for example). In my opinion, Slimserver is hobbled by the use of a web interface. It doesn't matter how clever you get, the connectionless HTTP protocol is a barrier to really snappy response. Sooloos have shown how much better things can be using a well-crafted standalone application. Others should take notice. Slimserver's UI could be made just as snappy if it were to be rewritten from the ground up as a client server application - if it were done in Java, it would still be platform independent. -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
cliveb;149845 Wrote: They may have done some custom hardware, but that doesn't mean what the system achieves can't be done with commodity H/W. As for database work, presumably that means they designed a suitable schema (just like the Slim Devices folks did). Nobody in their right mind would build their own proprietary DBMS for such a device. Agreed, that was the point i was trying to make. I was not saying its a bad product, just that i wanted to know exactly what was in that custom box. To justify that cost, that would have to, for example, design and build their own DAC, circuits etc for the money they are asking. But that in itself would be a huge risk for a new product like this for the high end market it's aimed at. i would be willing to bet money it's based on an off the self Mini-ATX board. As the Sooloos people are reading this thread as well, i have another question... How do you think the form factor is going to be received by people? And what kind of remote does it have? It's surely not going to fit into peoples HiFi setup in the way the Transporter does, or even the SB3 for that matter? Would that lovely touch screen display become somewhat redundant as more people would not want to get up and use the screen, wherever it is in the room, all the time? Personally speaking, when relaxing at home with a glass of wine on the sofa, i will always want a remote interface. I'm sure it's a seriously great product. But to me personally, it's more a proof of concept and im not sure they even know exactly which segment of the market it's being aimed at. -- autopilot *SlimServer Version:* 6.5 - Windows XP. *Amp:* Cambridge Audio 640a (living room) / Denon MD30 (bedroom). *Speakers:* Mission 701's (living room) / Kef Cresta 1's (bedroom). *Remote:* T-Mobile MDA Vario / Sony PSP / Cambridge Audio Explorer (IR). *Clients:* 1 Squeezebox3 + Softsqueeze. autopilot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
cliveb;149845 Wrote: Just took a look at the YouTube video of the Sooloos in action. They may have done some custom hardware, but that doesn't mean what the system achieves can't be done with commodity H/W. As for database work, presumably that means they designed a suitable schema (just like the Slim Devices folks did). Nobody in their right mind would build their own proprietary DBMS for such a device. Indeed it is. But what they achieve shouldn't be rocket science. Let's be generous and say that the metadata + cover art for an album is as much as 10kBytes. Even with a fairly large music collection of 10,000 albums, the total size is 100 MB, which can easily be completely cached in RAM. Add to that a bit of intelligent pre-preparation of all the possible next screens that can be linked to from the current one, and you arrive at the very slick performance we see. But the point is that it can all be done with off-the-shelf inexpensive hardware. What this device *should* be doing is making people ask why so many other media servers have such sluggish UIs (Slimserver, for example). In my opinion, Slimserver is hobbled by the use of a web interface. It doesn't matter how clever you get, the connectionless HTTP protocol is a barrier to really snappy response. Sooloos have shown how much better things can be using a well-crafted standalone application. Others should take notice. Slimserver's UI could be made just as snappy if it were to be rewritten from the ground up as a client server application - if it were done in Java, it would still be platform independent. Nice post Cliveb - I agree with pretty much everything apart from the fact that there are ALWAYS people mad enough to write their own DBMS - again. :0) ...also whilst HTTP is too sluggish, you wouldn't want the client to get too fat - but you would want a fair bit of intelligent client-side in memory caching (ooo this is fun) -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Phil Leigh;149949 Wrote: Nice post Cliveb - I agree with pretty much everything apart from the fact that there are ALWAYS people mad enough to write their own DBMS - again. :0) ...also whilst HTTP is too sluggish, you wouldn't want the client to get too fat - but you would want a fair bit of intelligent client-side in memory caching (ooo this is fun) The truth is that most of what we want to do with a remote is pretty fixed and a fairly small set of functionality. A slick, fast attractive interface for music selection and playback could be achieved in Java or Flash and make the experience much more consumer friendly and would work on a number of off-the-shelf designs. The Nokia 770 skin shows what can be done with Ajax, but what's needed now is a step up to the next level with a designed-for-purpose application, correct physical controls and a recharging station. I suspect this will be the next obvious product from Slim, no more high end transports, but add-ons to a successful lower end offering to catch up with Sonos and provide cross-selling for the Harmony remotes. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
CardinalFang;149950 Wrote: The truth is that most of what we want to do with a remote is pretty fixed and a fairly small set of functionality. A slick, fast attractive interface for music selection and playback could be achieved in Java or Flash and make the experience much more consumer friendly and would work on a number of off-the-shelf designs. The Nokia 770 skin shows what can be done with Ajax, but what's needed now is a step up to the next level with a designed-for-purpose application, correct physical controls and a recharging station. I suspect this will be the next obvious product from Slim, no more high end transports, but add-ons to a successful lower end offering to catch up with Sonos and provide cross-selling for the Harmony remotes. I was thinking of a handheld GUI (sort of medium remote sized) with a nice colour screen (3 inches?) that can show artwork etc...wi-fi conectivity (or whatever) running some slick firmware, a scroll wheel thingy, ...come on Logitech - surely you guys can do that? (obvioiusly it has to be rechargeable with a docking station/usb and be a fully programmable learning remote as well.. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Phil Leigh;149949 Wrote: Nice post Cliveb - I agree with pretty much everything apart from the fact that there are ALWAYS people mad enough to write their own DBMS - again. :0) Actually, I just got a PM from Rob Darling of Sooloos, and one of the things he said in it was: We do have our own dbms. We use metadata in ways that are unique and allow us to scale in a way that nothing else can. Not quite sure what he means by scale in a way that nothing else can. This must be news to industry strength DBMS vendors like Oracle, Sybase, etc, which routinely support databases with hundreds of terabytes. Mind you, that needs more than $12k of hardware :-) Phil Leigh;149949 Wrote: ...also whilst HTTP is too sluggish, you wouldn't want the client to get too fat - but you would want a fair bit of intelligent client-side in memory caching (ooo this is fun) The client can still run on the server hardware - the critical issue here is that the client keeps a connection open to the server, does some clever caching, and avoids using something like HTML/XML/whatever as the data transfer language (which requires parsing by a fairly complex process just to display it sensibly). The remote control device is just the human interface - think of it as like a special purpose wireless keyboard/monitor. But any remote that's usable while you slob on the sofa (ie. like a TV remote) would be too small to provide anything like the rich info that's displayed on the Sooloos control panel. I guess this has to be a preference thing. I personally wouldn't want a great big video display - but then I don't bother with album art, and I can see how it might appeal to those who do. Incidentally, Rob's PM also mentioned that their control panel component has a gigabyte of RAM for caching (no surprises there). What would be interesting is to find out how quickly the system is ready to rock after a cold start up. -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
cliveb;149996 Wrote: Not quite sure what he means by scale in a way that nothing else can. This must be news to industry strength DBMS vendors like Oracle, Sybase, etc, which routinely support databases with hundreds of terabytes. Mind you, that needs more than $12k of hardware :-) It may be that by restricting the dbms from general purpose to a specific audio content management solution they can perform optimisations that allow much faster traversal and access to data. You can often make substantial speed-ups if you limit the number of ways data can be accessed. It's unlikley it would make much difference over a well-designed general purpose engine though. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
totoro;149524 Wrote: OK,it's true that some development time went into the software. But even assuming some really large value for the hardware, say 7k, you're looking at a 5k hit for the software. This is pretty far beyond what people generally spend for software for home. And I'm sorry, but it wasn't as hard to write as icc, say (the last thing I remember getting that cost 5k a seat). So even if it is really cool, its appeal will be only to people with _really_ high price elasticity. This is especially true as the market is just beginning for this kind of stuff, and once some larger companies get involved looking to make money on a large scale (logitech, anyone), we'll most likely be seeing lower prices for ease of access features. [flame suit on] I'd say this belongs right up there with 1k cables. :) [flame suit off] Great post..I'll re-read it every time I'm tempted to buy expensive cables :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
tomjtx;149585 Wrote: Maybe Amy and bmaudio should work for sooloos, they are very adept at defending themh You haven't already realized Amy does work for Sooloos? Look at her posts here in the SD forums. There's 5 of them, all in this thread. All magically appearing only after a Sooloos thread was started...I'd bet my bottom dollar, she's a paid troll. -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Bingo! (rats, that was too short for posting. Double-bingo.) ezkcdude;149593 Wrote: You haven't already realized Amy does work for Sooloos? Look at her posts here in the SD forums. There's 5 of them, all in this thread. All magically appearing only after a Sooloos thread was started...I'd bet my bottom dollar, she's a paid troll. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
joncourage;145013 Wrote: But Sean - you so need a hot model. This one can click my remote any day... https://secure.slimdevices.com/order/upgrades.cgi -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Amy Lynne;149501 Wrote: Maybe Logitech will buy Sooloos and then you'd have your interface! No need to buy Sooloos. Logitech already owns SD. Logitech (Harmony) is already one of the top 4 or 5 AV Universal Remote Control (IR/RF Remote Interface) makers in the world. I never used the Sooloos and I'm not suggesting that SD/Logitech emulate the Sooloos interface. I'm an advocate for a 3rd party optional Universal remote customized for the SB (Logitech now being the obvious 3rd party). A remote with a GUI WiFi/IR/RF interface. If this Universal remote can also be made so that one can hold it in one hand (like a MP3 player) it would be even better. -- tamanaco tamanaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
tamanaco;145212 Wrote: -Dream Begin-... Slim Devices should contract or partner with a Universal remote control manufacturer like *Logitech* and build a GUI/WiFI/IR remote control tailored for the Squeezebox. A remote with a color LCD to view album art, lirics tracks, playlistÂ… etc with a variable speed thumb-wheel to facilitate the navigation of the Slimserver music library. WiFi to get rich content like album art and to interact with the Slimserver. In other words, I'd like to control the content of my Slimserver library via a Squeezebox remote just like I control the content of my MP3 player. In addition this remote should also be a Universal IR remote. It'd use IR codes to control the rest of my AV system. I just want ONE remote. An over simplified example of such hybrid is the *Logitech* remote for the Xbox 360 which was made with extra buttons to control the Xbox http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=11250 seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... In retrospect, I don't think Sean was commenting on the technology per se. ;-) -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
highdudgeon;149511 Wrote: Being an audiophile does not mean that one has to belong to the overly credulous and seriously over-spending crowd. Being an audiophile does not automatically mean that you judge a product by its price tag. Case in point: I've driven $5k amps with a $300 SB3 and thought it was marvey. snip The thing about the Sooloos that I find rather easy to object to is, then the price. It is severely over-priced for what it is, especially given that it isn't even market-tested and that the technology will swoop by in an instand. Twelve thousand. TWELVE thousand. It's a bit offensive. Well, I totally agree that $12,000 is a ridiculous amount to pay for that, if all you consider is the base functionality. My point was precisely that such things as $5,000 amplifiers exist, when even the vaunted ears of John Atkinson can't disitnguish between them in blind tests. So even if you believe there may be an audible difference between a $500 and a $5000 amp (and I do) it's a evidently a very subtle one, and the base functionality is identical - far more so than the SB compared to the Sooloos. And I won't even bring up $1000 wires. So I think any audiophile, or at least anyone willing to consider spending a significant amount on an amp, is on very precarious grounds criticizing it. If people can afford to pay a lot for beauty and sleek design, so what? At least they're getting something for their money, unlike many things I could name in the audiophile world... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
ezkcdude;149593 Wrote: You haven't already realized Amy does work for Sooloos? Look at her posts here in the SD forums. There's 5 of them, all in this thread. All magically appearing only after a Sooloos thread was started...I'd bet my bottom dollar, she's a paid troll. I thought she was a troll from the 1st post.I was just trying to be polite:-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I spent a fair amount of time playing with the Sooloos at CEDIA and talking with the developers. First: Its not just a standard PC with a nice UI. They did a fair amount of their own custom hardware as well as database work. Second: Its blazingly fast. The response time is much much better than any Windows/Linux media server I saw at CEDIA. Third: It has some interesting features that I don't think are done elsewhere, like simultaneously ripping to multiple lossless formats, for example. The UI has a lot of depth to it as well. No I don't work for SooLoos. Is it worth 12k? Maybe not to you or me, but to some it will be. Also, you have to realize that they spent 6 years developing this system without any outside investment. They have to price it at a level that they believe will allow them to recoup that investment. They are not competing with SlimDevices etc. They are instead competing with folks like Kaleidescape but oriented to 2 channel. Is the Kaleidescape system worth 25k? And I don't own any $1k cables (and never would). BlueBlast -- BlueBlast BlueBlast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I sympathize with you guys. What a frustrating situation. I got my TP a few days after I ordered it because my US dealer was moving and gave me his. Can't you cancel your orders and re-order direct from Slim? It sounds like the UK dealers are being unresponsive so why give them your money? Godd luck, I think you will be very happy when you do get your TP -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
BlueBlast;149640 Wrote: Third: It has some interesting features that I don't think are done elsewhere, like simultaneously ripping to multiple lossless formats, for example. The UI has a lot of depth to it as well. Is it worth 12k? Maybe not to you or me, but to some it will be. Also, you have to realize that they spent 6 years developing this system without any outside investment. They have to price it at a level that they believe will allow them to recoup that investment. They are not competing with SlimDevices etc. They are instead competing with folks like Kaleidescape but oriented to 2 channel. Is the Kaleidescape system worth 25k? And I don't own any $1k cables (and never would). BlueBlast There already exists software to rip to multiple formats (I'm pretty sure monkey's media is one example). I made a point of saying that it would appeal to people with high price elasticity :). Your post doesn't contradict this. -- totoro _ squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I saw and used the Sooloos at the Seattle store as well. Probably just missed Amy. I spent a couple of hours with the fellow from Sooloos and am going to visit them in New york. The product is amazing. High quality UI, hardware, software and price. They are not even thinking about the common users market place. They only want to sell this thing in the high end of the CEDIA market. It is the same class people that buy Crestron automation systems to run thier homes. They want high quality touch, high quality support and will pay large some of money to have that. BTW I think you'd be hard pressed to get one of those systems for $12k, more like $15k. Am I going to buy one? no. I love our three Slimdevices. -- jasleinstein jasleinstein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Hello, I am Rob Darling and I am indeed a part of Sooloos. I was the guy who gave the demos at Magnolia. We have kept a policy of staying away from forums- this is a site someone else works hard to put up and pay for- but I felt that maybe there was little bit of ill will developing that I should step in and defray. We did put the Classic Car Club/Sooloos video on youtube in response to a post on the Sonos forum stating that we were vapourware. But the Sonos forum seemed more interested in our model than the system and things mostly ended there. That has been the limit of our activity on-line. We just debuted a month ago at CEDIA and have been busy since then working to finalize a number of software changes and develop dealer relationships. We've been watching the press closely and have been happy to see that we've at least made a splash- believe me, it was pretty scary to walk into the Denver convention center next to some of the biggest companies in the world and try to break into a really rough business. We are a new company and worked hard to develop what we think is a great music server system that serves certain needs for certain customers. Our product is priced the way it is because it does a lot of things, rather than asking the user to do a lot of things, which ends up being expensive. For example, it has two storage devices- a secondary and a primary- that actually offer zero downtime redundancy and can be regenerated by the customer, or any non-technology person, by simply switching two cables and powering up. I'm sure you can imagine the hard drive cost alone for a redundant pair of terabyte NAS'es. For users with multiple homes, the systems synchronize their collections. We integrate all AMG metadata, including credits and reviews, and all of it is easily searchable. We will soon offer a music store through the box and that will also be searchable in the same way. Our system is multi-zone and can be extended in any direction independently- more control, storage, or zones are only added as needed. So, please understand that we are a different system from the Squeezebox and Transporter, addressing pretty different needs. I actually was shown both by the great sales folks at Magnolia and really liked them. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact me. I notice that a number of you are in the New York area- if you'd like a demo, we can set something up. Best, Rob Darling [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Rob Darling Rob Darling's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8163 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Rob Darling;149666 Wrote: Hello, I am Rob Darling and I am indeed a part of Sooloos. I was the guy who gave the demos at Magnolia. We have kept a policy of staying away from forums- this is a site someone else works hard to put up and pay for- but I felt that maybe there was a little bit of ill will developing that I should step in and defray. We did put the Classic Car Club/Sooloos video on youtube in response to a post on the Sonos forum stating that we were vapourware, figuring that people would find it pretty quickly, which they did. But the Sonos forum seemed more interested in our model than the system and things mostly ended there. That has been the limit of our activity on-line. We just debuted a month ago at CEDIA and have been busy since then working to finalize a number of software changes and develop dealer relationships. We've been watching the press closely and have been happy to see that we've at least made a splash- believe me, it was pretty scary to walk into the Denver convention center next to some of the biggest companies in the world and try to break into a really rough business. We are a new company and worked hard to develop what we think is a great music server system that serves certain needs for certain customers. Our product is priced the way it is because it does a lot of things, rather than asking the user to do a lot of things, which ends up being expensive. For example, it has two storage devices- a secondary and a primary- that actually offer zero downtime redundancy and can be regenerated by the customer, or any non-technology person, by simply switching two cables and powering up the replacement. I'm sure you can imagine the hard drive cost alone for a redundant pair of terabyte NAS'es. For users with multiple homes, the systems synchronize their collections. We integrate all AMG metadata, including credits and reviews, and all of it is easily searchable. We will soon offer a music store through the box and that will also be searchable in the same way. Our system is multi-zone and can be extended in any direction independently- more control, storage, or zones are only added as needed. So, please understand that we are a different system from the Squeezebox and Transporter, addressing different needs. I actually was shown both by the great sales folks at Magnolia and really liked them. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact me. I notice that a number of you are in the New York area- if you'd like a demo, we can set something up. Best, Rob Darling [EMAIL PROTECTED] That sounds wonderful, but could you just go over the cost justification bit again please lol... -- autopilot *SlimServer Version:* 6.5 - Windows XP. *Amp:* Cambridge Audio 640a (living room) / Denon MD30 (bedroom). *Speakers:* Mission 701's (living room) / Kef Cresta 1's (bedroom). *Remote:* T-Mobile MDA Vario / Sony PSP / Cambridge Audio Explorer (IR). *Clients:* 1 Squeezebox3 + Softsqueeze. autopilot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Rob Darling;149666 Wrote: But the Sonos forum seemed more interested in our model than the system and things mostly ended there. I think that is probably true of most readers here as well. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
snarlydwarf;149695 Wrote: I think that is probably true of most readers here as well. Hmmm - I'm guessing that runs out to less than $12k, including food, wine etc :0) Of course the delicious irony that will be lost on these folks is that most people I know that could easily afford such a system have about 50 CD's... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Rob Darling;149666 Wrote: We have kept a policy of staying away from forums- this is a site someone else works hard to put up and pay for- but I felt that maybe there was a little bit of ill will developing that I should step in and defray. [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, how did you know we were talking about Sooloos in the last few days? -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Rob Darling;149666 Wrote: Hello, I am Rob Darling and I am indeed a part of Sooloos. I was the guy who gave the demos at Magnolia. We have kept a policy of staying away from forums- this is a site someone else works hard to put up and pay for- but I felt that maybe there was a little bit of ill will developing that I should step in and defray. We did put the Classic Car Club/Sooloos video on youtube in response to a post on the Sonos forum stating that we were vapourware, figuring that people would find it pretty quickly, which they did. That would be me. I said that based on the website it looked like vapourware - it does look more like a rendering than an actual picture; but when I saw the YouTube video, I said I stood corrected - and I don't mind apologizing again - no offence was intended it was merely an observation. There was certainly no ill will on that forum or on this one, just people thinking out aloud about the whether the price tag is justified. I don't know if it is, but I will keep an open mind. Nikhil -- Nikhil Nikhil's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=993 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Good points. I just hate to see open fleecing. McIntosh is one example of a product is is over-priced...but their amps are excellent and they fit a certain aesthetic to a T. In that sense, they are worth every penny. opaqueice;149613 Wrote: Well, I totally agree that $12,000 is a ridiculous amount to pay for that, if all you consider is the base functionality. My point was precisely that such things as $5,000 amplifiers exist, when even the vaunted ears of John Atkinson can't disitnguish between them in blind tests. So even if you believe there may be an audible difference between a $500 and a $5000 amp (and I do) it's a evidently a very subtle one, and the base functionality is identical - far more so than the SB compared to the Sooloos. And I won't even bring up $1000 wires. So I think any audiophile, or at least anyone willing to consider spending a significant amount on an amp, is on very precarious grounds criticizing the Sooloos. If people can afford to pay a lot for beauty and sleek design, why not? At least they're getting something for their money, unlike many things I could name in the audiophile world... -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Am I the only one who thinks it is not cool to engage in blatant marketing of competing products on this forum? Jeez, even the modders are fairly low key and rely on word of mouth. Rob Darling;149666 Wrote: Hello, I am Rob Darling and I am indeed a part of Sooloos. I was the guy who gave the demos at Magnolia. We have kept a policy of staying away from forums- this is a site someone else works hard to put up and pay for- but I felt that maybe there was a little bit of ill will developing that I should step in and defray. We did put the Classic Car Club/Sooloos video on youtube in response to a post on the Sonos forum stating that we were vapourware, figuring that people would find it pretty quickly, which they did. But the Sonos forum seemed more interested in our model than the system and things mostly ended there. That has been the limit of our activity on-line. We just debuted a month ago at CEDIA and have been busy since then working to finalize a number of software changes and develop dealer relationships. We've been watching the press closely and have been happy to see that we've at least made a splash- believe me, it was pretty scary to walk into the Denver convention center next to some of the biggest companies in the world and try to break into a really rough business. We are a new company and worked hard to develop what we think is a great music server system that serves certain needs for certain customers. Our product is priced the way it is because it does a lot of things, rather than asking the user to do a lot of things, which ends up being expensive. For example, it has two storage devices- a secondary and a primary- that actually offer zero downtime redundancy and can be regenerated by the customer, or any non-technology person, by simply switching two cables and powering up the replacement. I'm sure you can imagine the hard drive cost alone for a redundant pair of terabyte NAS'es. For users with multiple homes, the systems synchronize their collections. We integrate all AMG metadata, including credits and reviews, and all of it is easily searchable in a way that goes far beyond normal search functions in its incredible ease of use, which we call Focus. We will soon offer a music store through the box and that will also be searchable in the same way. Our system is multi-zone and can be extended in any direction independently- more control, storage, or zones are only added as needed. So, please understand that we are a different system from the Squeezebox and Transporter, addressing different needs. I actually was shown both by the great sales folks at Magnolia and really liked them. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact me. I notice that a number of you are in the New York area- if you'd like a demo, we can set something up. Rob Darling [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Tamanaco- Yes, that all sounds reasonable. There are all kinds of ways of experiencing music. Maybe Logitech will buy Sooloos and then you'd have your interface! -- Amy Lynne Amy Lynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I like your posts, generally, so please don't take this personally. Here's the thing: Being an audiophile does not mean that one has to belong to the overly credulous and seriously over-spending crowd. Being an audiophile does not automatically mean that you judge a product by its price tag. Case in point: I've driven $5k amps with a $300 SB3 and thought it was marvey. I believe in research, listening to music, thinking about one's rooms, tastes, and purposes, and always seriously considering budget and value. Some audiophiles are capable of setting up a system for $5-6k (not that that isn't a lot of money) that others can't match for four times that much. I've seen it too often. The thing about the Sooloos that I find rather easy to object to is, then the price. It is severely over-priced for what it is, especially given that it isn't even market-tested and that the technology will swoop by in an instand. Twelve thousand. TWELVE thousand. It's a bit offensive. opaqueice;149243 Wrote: I find it amusing that audiophiles, of all people, are attacking a product for being overpriced given its functionality. Please. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
OK,it's true that some development time went into the software. But even assuming some really large value for the hardware, say 7k, you're looking at a 5k hit for the software. This is pretty far beyond what people generally spend for software for home. And I'm sorry, but it wasn't as hard to write as icc, say (the last thing I remember getting that cost 5k a seat). So even if it is really cool, its appeal will be only to people with _really_ high price elasticity. This is especially true as the market is just beginning for this kind of stuff, and once some larger companies get involved looking to make money on a large scale (logitech, anyone), we'll most likely be seeing lower prices for ease of access features. [flame suit on] I'd say this belongs right up there with 1k cables. :) [flame suit off] -- totoro _ squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
bmaudio;149196 Wrote: if you've seen the speed at which it operates, i don't think you'd make the same assumption. any programmer would tell you that its just not that simple to access that much data and always have a response time that looks/feels sub 20ms. (it feels damn near instantaneous when you make contact w/ the screen) In case you don't think I know what I'm talking about, I am the architect of several very large databases including one with a table of 1 billion rows in it...I know EXACTLY what is involved in delivering that kind of user experience to a much more demanding audience...ie a bunch of accountants :o) -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Amy Lynne;148774 Wrote: You know, the only reason I posted here was because I saw a bunch of people who'd obviously never seen something talking about something they didn't know about- I always promis myself not to get into stuff like this, but it's always tough for me to watch something really good get hit with sticks. It's like saying Yeah, I could date that chick when you wouldn't even know how to talk to her. I'm actually a game progammer, my friends are all graphix pros and web designers. If something like this could exist in a pc, don't you think it probably would? Don't you think they'd probably be much happier to make some software and not have to make boxes and have inventory and all that stuff? Have you guys seen that gimicky cover flipper in the new iTunes? All that thing has to do is scroll and it can't really do it, let alone search all that data. I totally understand being doubtful about stuff, you have to be, right? We all do it, otherwise we'd be taking all that stuff the marketing guys shove at us all day. But trust me when I say that this is not Kool Aid, it's the real deal. Come on guys, have a little love and wait to see for yourselves what it's about. I spent 3 months exploring lots of player software alternatives before getting serious about ripping our 1800-2000 CDs. About 2/3 of our CD collection is classical msic. For me, album covers don't matter for most of our CDs. Being able to use an iTunes like interface for browsing is essential for me. For Jazz and pop CDs, album covers are my way of identifying desert island disks. At this point, I don't know how much seeing album covers matters to me. I have a srong sense of what I want from a user interface but it is still evolving. However, I understand that other people might need different things. I think that threads like this one are useful to discuss alternatives for the ideas they contain. Thanks, Amy for sharing your experience. Bill -- Listener Listener's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2508 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I must say, I also like the iTunes flip thingy. It may be gimmicky, but it's the closest experience to flipping through my CD's that I've had in several years. Even with SlimServer, one can go numb trying to decide what to listen to on a given day. Flipping through the CD covers brings a touch of nostalgia and many times you come accross CD's you haven't thought about in months/years. -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
ezkcdude;149093 Wrote: I must say, I also like the iTunes flip thingy. It may be gimmicky, but it's the closest experience to flipping through my CD's that I've had in several years. Even with SlimServer, one can go numb trying to decide what to listen to on a given day. Flipping through the CD covers brings a touch of nostalgia and many times you come accross CD's you haven't thought about in months/years. I get the same feeling using the cover chooser in Moose...but it does have some issues with 2,500 covers on the screen (like its slow...) -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I briefly saw the Sooloos stand at CEDIA but didn't really have the time for a demo. However it did make me feel good that there's a growing number of folks coming into this segment. Commercially, it validates us in feeling that a growing number of people want their music 'on-demand' in various parts of their home. Also as different companies come to market with products that have a new 'angle' on delivering music around the home, it allows us and our community to look back at our own products with fresh eyes. We obviously can't please all of the people all of the time, but through our choice of open architecture we can try to absorb the best the market has to offer. All of these market and internal factors MAY give us some glimpse in the reasons for Logitech acquiring us and entering this sector. They certainly are looking to make a bunch of money by entering a growing market with the best tools and products available (he said modestly). But the thing most folks seem to forget is that Slim Devices were always going to do the same thing . . . just with less resources and money. I have to make it clear that these opinions are very much my own, I certainly don't know the thinking behind the deal, etc. However many factors are changing the way we consumer media and I personally think Logitech has a smart approach to getting involved in that. Sooloos and many of the other 'newcomers' are almost certainly looking for corporate sugar-daddies to both support their current products and to widen their product ranges enabling them to enter more homes. I just think we are ahead of the game, both in terms of our current products and their underlying architecture. -- Jez Jez Hildred Senior Manager - Sales Marketing Slim Devices, Inc. http://www.last.fm/user/Kadosh/ Jez's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4300 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Listener;149085 Wrote: I spent 3 months exploring lots of player software alternatives before getting serious about ripping our 1800-2000 CDs. About 2/3 of our CD collection is classical msic. For me, album covers don't matter for most of our CDs. Being able to use an iTunes like interface for browsing is essential for me. For Jazz and pop CDs, album covers are my way of identifying desert island disks. At this point, I don't know how much seeing album covers matters to me. I have a srong sense of what I want from a user interface but it is still evolving. However, I understand that other people might need different things. I think that threads like this one are useful to discuss alternatives for the ideas they contain. Thanks, Amy for sharing your experience. Bill there is a cover mode, but there is also a 3 pane artist/album/song mode. i should also point out that there are multiple skins (skin in the video != skin in the marketing photos). along those lines, if someone is a classical music buff, who says there can't be a skin specifically designed around how one would browse classical / orchestrial music? -- bmaudio bmaudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Phil Leigh;148819 Wrote: Its just a funky UI plus a database! its not magic (as I'm sure you know) if you've seen the speed at which it operates, i don't think you'd make the same assumption. any programmer would tell you that its just not that simple to access that much data and always have a response time that looks/feels sub 20ms. (it feels damn near instantaneous when you make contact w/ the screen) -- bmaudio bmaudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
autopilot;148829 Wrote: But it -IS- a PC! People are already doing this with thier PC's all over the world. Can't you see? It's a PC (some form of Linux) with a fancy frontend/skin for a media player. There is nothing innovative about this. You could make a full screen skin for Winamp to do that. I'm not saying it's not good, but its vasty (and i mean MASSIVELY VASTLY) overpriced and over hyped. You can stick a sail on top of a car and tripple the price, but it's still just a car! And you can try to sail the seas in a bucket with a shovel and you won't get very far. Post here when you've Seen the system Used the system And gotten that winamp skin to run the same -- Amy Lynne Amy Lynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
bmaudio;149196 Wrote: any programmer would tell you that its just not that simple to access that much data and always have a response time that looks/feels sub 20ms. (it feels damn near instantaneous when you make contact w/ the screen) That much data? How much data? For 5000 albums we're talking what, 50-60k records? If you're optimizing purely for speed and not resource usage (which they can do, seeing as they're running on a closed, dedicated box) that's trivial. Throw a gig of ram in the box (they can afford it at the prices they charge) and cache everything except the audio files. Forget sub-20ms, sub-5ms should be possible unless their developers are asleep. Slimserver could do the same thing but people expect it to co-exist on a low powered machine with a bunch of other apps. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Amy Lynne;149198 Wrote: Really, it's always amazing to me when guys think that they can talk dis about things they know nothing about. Again Yeah, I could get that girl, easy. Right. Please lay off the personal attacks - it makes you look foolish. I can assure you there are people on this forum who know -exactly- what they're talking about. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
radish;149202 Wrote: That much data? How much data? For 5000 albums we're talking what, 50-60k records? actually, i was referring more to the graphical aspect of it, as making cover browsing that fast is pretty difficult. but for the album data, it can get much larger than that because there are pre-defined genres/moods/credits etc for everything.. and considering that you can slice dice the dataset it is pretty impressive coupled with the browsing speed. so in essence, it isn't impossible to do given vast resources like you say, but it is hard to do it right. my point was that it is a harder problem than phil seems to convey when he said 'make a winamp plugin'. otherwise, make a winamp plugin for $10k and beat them to the punch :P -- bmaudio bmaudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I mean, really -- does anyone doubt for a second that this thing will tank, and do so quickly? After a small handful of wealthy and credulous customers who buy it more as a show piece than anything else? It's just silly. The fact is, if you can't put together a world-class audio system -- and this would mean dipping into the used market -- for under $12k, then you've got a problem. Slim Devices is absolutely on the right path and developing products with good price points. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
radish;149205 Wrote: Please lay off the personal attacks - it makes you look foolish. I can assure you there are people on this forum who know -exactly- what they're talking about. Sorry if I seemed a little personal. I was standing up for something that can't defend itself. Though, to be honest, it looks a little foolish for people to speak so strongly about something they've never seen or used, which was really the only point I was trying to make. How they can know EXACTLY what they are talking about without using something eludes me. So, from where I started at the beginning. I really like the Slim boxes. I can totally see them as a cool addition to a digital media collection. You get set free from the computer. But slamming Sooloos when you've never seen it- that's a little much. Check it out. There's room in the world for all kinds. -- Amy Lynne Amy Lynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
bmaudio;149195 Wrote: there is a cover mode, but there is also a 3 pane artist/album/song mode. i should also point out that there are multiple skins (skin in the video != skin in the marketing photos). along those lines, if someone is a classical music buff, who says there can't be a skin specifically designed around how one would browse classical / orchestrial music? More info! Thanks. Right now, I'm using 5 panes for classical music (Sub genre, Composer, Work Name, Artist and Version) and 4 panes for pop music (Composer, Artist, Album and Song Title). I'd say 4 panes is a minimum for classical music. Nice cars in the video too. Even pricier than the Sooloos I imagine. Bill -- Listener Listener's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2508 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I find it amusing that audiophiles, of all people, are attacking a product for being overpriced given its functionality. Please. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Amy Lynne;149224 Wrote: There's room in the world for all kinds. This is exactly the way I see it. Some of these clients/remotes are already there at different levels of functionality. 1) The current remote that ships with the SB3 and uses the SB3 character-based interface. (Already there... user friendly... I like it) 2) Web interface. (Already there... some will argue that needs to get a little faster... requires a PC, laptop or PDA and some tech knowledge to set it up and use it efficiently.) 3) PC based clients like the Moose or Softsqueeze. (Already there... User friendly) 5) Mobile based clients like the Nokia 770 Skin or Slimremote. (Already there... requires another device... also requires some tech knowledge to set it up, but once setup is user friendly...battery life might be a bit of an issue when using WiFi with these portable devices... devices not designed to be remotes) 4) A feature rich remote customize for the SB3 with rechargeable batteries and an LCD that displays album art. (NOT There yet... Preferably a remote with Universal features to control the rest of my AV system. Now that Logitech is in the picture they have the money and remote control know-how to make this happen. Of course for a few extra $$$ for those that want it and are willing to pay for it... Call it an optional accessory) I find that the Web interface is a bit too complex for when people in my house just want to kick back and listen to music. There are too many options there in the web interface that can confuse the average user. I don't want anyone else to change the Slimserver or SB3 settings. The existing remote solves this problem to a certain extend, but it limits one range as one has to be in front of the SB3 to navigate the character base interface to make the desired selections. Listening to music... just like watching a TV is mostly a passive activity... not interactive. I'm a lazy old man. I want to maximize my comfort. I want to lay down in my couch and select the album/artist, song and playlist I want to hear without lifting my head and look at the SB3 across the room. Btw, I hear some people mention that they have no use for Album art... I can understand... you know your music. In my case, beside being a forgetful old man, I have a large collection of World Music... I can not even spell or remember the names of some of the artists or albums and to a lesser degree the title of the songs in my library. Album art trully helps me navigate my World Music collectionÂ… Not to mention that it also impresses my friends when I'm able to recall these interesting album covers and display them in my PDA. These covers are... in most casesÂ… works of art. Like the man said... It takes ALL kinds... one size remote does not fit all. -- tamanaco tamanaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I too would like a funkier more graphical front end UI...but at the end of the day, it's only going to provide an experience based on the availability of accurate and comprehensive metadata (eg tags or some externally cross-referenced d/b). Given the existence of (or access to) such metadata from ones own PC (or whatever) similar functionality can be delivered by the SS backend and a suitably funky frontend/UI. However, I wouldn't want to be tied-in to an external (possibly remote) d/b to get the functionality...I'd have no control over my own destiny. What would happen if one day I coudn't access the external metadata? At least with tags I'm in control. All that Focus functionality can be achieved by extending the tag paradigm - and applying straightforward relational queries. The real issue is where to get the metadata from, assuming one doesn't have the time/inclination to type it all in... I don't like the idea of being induced to source my music from a hardware vendor simply because they can provide value-added tagging. This is all way too proprietary for my liking. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
@joncourage My view and I'm the owner of 3 SliMP3 and 2 SB and a showroom full of Sonos - so take this as you will, and it's not meant to be a troll. The Sonos remote is snappier and just slicker than a web interface controlling Slim. Have you used a Sonos in anger? -- iainshaw iainshaw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=86 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Amy Lynne;148719 Wrote: but trust me, there is nothing, nothing I've ever seen that can do what Sooloos does. How about most peoples PC (minus the DAC)? It's just a custom (crippled, as all it does is play music) Linux box with a touch screen, good DAC and a fancy front end! I could build one for less than $1000! But i dont like that form factor at all, i would rather have a Tranporter and a better remote any day. Come on now, its nice but its vastly over priced. Get real. -- autopilot *SlimServer Version:* 6.5 - Windows XP. *Amp:* Cambridge Audio 640a (living room) / Denon MD30 (bedroom). *Speakers:* Mission 701's (living room) / Kef Cresta 1's (bedroom). *Remote:* T-Mobile MDA Vario / Sony PSP / Cambridge Audio Explorer (IR). *Clients:* 1 Squeezebox3 + Softsqueeze. autopilot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
You know, the only reason I posted here was because I saw a bunch of people who'd obviously never seen something talking about something they didn't know about- I always promis myself not to get into stuff like this, but it's always tough for me to watch something really good get hit with sticks. It's like saying Yeah, I could date that chick when you wouldn't even know how to talk to her. I'm actually a game progammer, my friends are all graphix pros and web designers. If something like this could exist in a pc, don't you think it probably would? Don't you think they'd probably be much happier to make some software and not have to make boxes and hold inventory and all that stuff? Have you guys seen that gimicky cover flipper in the new iTunes? All that thing has to do is scroll and it can't really do it, let alone search all that data. I totally understand being doubtful about stuff, you have to be, right? We all do it, otherwise we'd be taking all that stuff the marketing guys shove at us all day. But trust me when I say that this is not Kool Aid, it's the real deal. Come on guys, have a little love and wait to see for yourselves what it's about. -- Amy Lynne Amy Lynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Just looking at the Sooloos website, didn't anyone notice the bit about jitter? super low-jitter design ( 1 nanosecond) Is it me or is claiming less than 1000ps jitter so 1992 (or maybe 1986)? What's funny about this is that I think they are actually trying to target a market that cares about such numbers. -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I also noticed something about $12k...? -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
autopilot;148829 Wrote: You can stick a sail on top of a car and tripple the price, but it's still just a car! gets my vote for best post ever! -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Amy Lynne;148774 Wrote: You know, the only reason I posted here was because I saw a bunch of people who'd obviously never seen something talking about something they didn't know about- I always promis myself not to get into stuff like this, but it's always tough for me to watch something really good get hit with sticks. It's like saying Yeah, I could date that chick when you wouldn't even know how to talk to her. I'm actually a game progammer, my friends are all graphix pros and web designers. If something like this could exist in a pc, don't you think it probably would? Don't you think they'd probably be much happier to make some software and not have to make boxes and have inventory and all that stuff? Have you guys seen that gimicky cover flipper in the new iTunes? All that thing has to do is scroll and it can't really do it, let alone search all that data. I totally understand being doubtful about stuff, you have to be, right? We all do it, otherwise we'd be taking all that stuff the marketing guys shove at us all day. But trust me when I say that this is not Kool Aid, it's the real deal. Come on guys, have a little love and wait to see for yourselves what it's about. But it -IS- a PC! People are already doing this with thier PC's all over the world. Can't you see? It's a PC (some form of Linux) with a fancy frontend/skin for a media player. There is nothing innovative about this. You could make a full screen skin for Winamp to do that. I'm not saying it's not good, but its vasty (and i mean MASSIVELY VASTLY) overpriced and over hyped. You can stick a sail on top of a car and tripple the price, but it's still just a car! -- autopilot *SlimServer Version:* 6.5 - Windows XP. *Amp:* Cambridge Audio 640a (living room) / Denon MD30 (bedroom). *Speakers:* Mission 701's (living room) / Kef Cresta 1's (bedroom). *Remote:* T-Mobile MDA Vario / Sony PSP / Cambridge Audio Explorer (IR). *Clients:* 1 Squeezebox3 + Softsqueeze. autopilot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
tyler_durden;146178 Wrote: The ideal remote will have a display that shows the library tree structure (or whatever the person has used) and then the song titles, cover art, etc. so that one doesn't have to squint to see the text display on the SB across the room. In other words, the display on the SB becomes redundant, and the remote shows the server's web interface. That functionality is already available via wireless PDAs and laptop computers (like the sooloos display). Maybe you can get Palm to make a PDA bundled with the Slimserver interface software, then make the SB4 without any display, or maybe just a cheap LCD- but then it will be like some of its competitors. TD That is absolutely not what I meant. First, to take a PDA, to find the right software, to install and configure it - it's all right for geeks like me, but totally off the line for many my audiophile pals. Second, ergonomically, there is no PDA that as convenient as a well designed remote, such as Logitech Harmony. So in spite I have no problems with PDAs and such, I still want a real remote. Third, user interface must be comfortable. Anyone who designed user interfaces for enterprise applications knows what negative impact an excess of information may produce on perception of the end user. So remote must be simple. Trees and too much details on that small screen will simpy make it unacceptable for most of people. -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp simaudio moon i-5 revel performa m20 via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori -planned additions: sb3 deq2496 lavry da-10 ... or will it be transporter?- 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Maybe this is what you are looking for? Might need some software changes to integrate it with SlimDevices, but this remote looks interesting to me. http://www.mynevo.com/ -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Pascal Hibon;146349 Wrote: Maybe this is what you are looking for? Might need some software changes to integrate it with SlimDevices, but this remote looks interesting to me. http://www.mynevo.com/ Only in case Sean agrees to deal with customizing roughly $800 remote for $300 SB :))) This is why I'm all about Logitech, their price - functionality - brand - reliability - availability - support combination seems to be pretty outstanding. -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp simaudio moon i-5 revel performa m20 via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori -planned additions: sb3 deq2496 lavry da-10 ... or will it be transporter?- 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
The ideal remote will have a display that shows the library tree structure (or whatever the person has used) and then the song titles, cover art, etc. so that one doesn't have to squint to see the text display on the SB across the room. In other words, the display on the SB becomes redundant, and the remote shows the server's web interface. That functionality is already available via wireless PDAs and laptop computers (like the sooloos display). Maybe you can get Palm to make a PDA bundled with the Slimserver interface software, then make the SB4 without any display, or maybe just a cheap LCD- but then it will be like some of its competitors. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145740 Wrote: Actually it is not that hard if the thing making the music is also the thing doing the voice recognition, because you know what's noise vs signal. Philips has a stereo system that will take voice commands even when you have the music cranked so loud that you can't even hear yourself. That would really be great - I would buy that for sure! Although I'd want a guarantee, as these things sometimes have unexpected flaws... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
i posted this after an event last thurs night @ the classic car club. they know the guys who made it so they have one in there to get everyone to ooh and ahh... as if the ford gt doesn't do that already :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev7QqN0GvD4 -- bmaudio bmaudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Probably way off... but just a thought for remote touchscreen devices... Use the in-car 7 devices. Small; compact; standard SVGA and can look quite sexy. Saw this on a custom built PC - but ideas could be used to mod it into a nice little NAS /SB3 type box. Or how about a SB4 / Transporter 2 which supported a small video output. http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/bmwpc/default.asp?page=4 -- roamingstudio roamingstudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6923 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
This seems to be along somewhat similar lines http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT3522012081.html -- Nikhil Nikhil's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=993 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... I'm ready to order the new remote. ::) BTW, in many non-audiophile reviews SB is considered to be very interesting, but not excessively user friendly product. Right remote may improve the perception, quite seriously IMHO. Tech geeks already like SB, so it's a good time to make it accessible for normal people, before they go into Sonos and the like... -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp simaudio moon i-5 revel performa m20 via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori -planned additions: sb3 deq2496 lavry da-10 ... or will it be transporter?- 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
It would make more sence to develop a remote with some cool custom proprietory software, rather than a branded web tablet which just uses the Nokia 770 skin or whatever. I hope thats what there planning. -- autopilot *SlimServer Version:* 6.5 - Windows XP. *Amp:* Cambridge Audio 640a (living room) / Denon MD30 (bedroom). *Speakers:* Mission 701's (living room) / Kef Cresta 1's (bedroom). *Remote:* T-Mobile MDA Vario / Sony PSP / Cambridge Audio Explorer (IR). *Clients:* 1 Squeezebox3 + Softsqueeze. autopilot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
A lot of these proposed super remotes and GUIs would be nice, but IMO they are overkill. The way I use my squeezeboxes, I spend a few seconds, or occasionally maybe a minute, finding what I want and then I'm good for hours of playback. If you have meaningful tags, you can just load up an Artist, Genre, or Year and let it play for hours. My library doesn't include any bad tracks, so I never have to run for the remote to skip past a song I don't like. With track ratings and playlists optimized over many years, it's a snap to find great music for any mood in a few seconds. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
While you're about designing the new remote, how about a voice interface so I can just tell it to play the Rolling Stones? The vocabulary of the squeezebox is quite limited so it should be easy to make a voice interface. If I am playing music loudly and one of the songs contains lyrics like volume up will it destroy my speakers? I can forsee many bands having fun with SB listeners by writing lyrics into their songs that trip the voice interface- sort of an audio trojan... TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
tyler_durden;145734 Wrote: While you're about designing the new remote, how about a voice interface so I can just tell it to play the Rolling Stones? The vocabulary of the squeezebox is quite limited so it should be easy to make a voice interface. TD Voice activated solutions are always going to be a problem in noisy environments - trying to split out commands or band names from music with vocals would be pretty tough for software I would imagine. -- CardinalFang You're only young once, but you can be immature forever... CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
CardinalFang;145737 Wrote: Voice activated solutions are always going to be a problem in noisy environments - trying to split out commands or band names from music with vocals would be pretty tough for software I would imagine. Actually it is not that hard if the thing making the music is also the thing doing the voice recognition, because you know what's noise vs signal. Philips has a stereo system that will take voice commands even when you have the music cranked so loud that you can't even hear yourself. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145740 Wrote: Actually it is not that hard if the thing making the music is also the thing doing the voice recognition, because you know what's noise vs signal. Philips has a stereo system that will take voice commands even when you have the music cranked so loud that you can't even hear yourself. Good point. I guess if you subract a scaled mono version of the music from the microphone then you have the voice commands. I always assumed that it would be too difficult to scale and time shift the music to be able to subtract it in real time. -- CardinalFang You're only young once, but you can be immature forever... CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
tamanaco;145212 Wrote: -Dream Begin-... Slim Devices should contract or partner with a Universal remote control manufacturer like Logitech and build a GUI/WiFI/IR remote control tailored for the Squeezebox. A remote with a color LCD to view album art, lirics tracks, playlistÂ… etc with a variable speed thumb-wheel to facilitate the navigation of the Slimserver music library. WiFi to get rich content like album art and to interact with the Slimserver. In other words, I'd like to control the content of my Slimserver library via a Squeezebox remote just like I control the content of my MP3 player. In addition this remote should also be a Universal IR remote. It'd use IR codes to control the rest of my AV system. I just want ONE remote. An over simplified example of such hybrid is the Logitech remote for the Xbox 360 which was made with extra buttons to control the Xbox http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=11250 You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... So when does it ship? :-) -- CardinalFang You're only young once, but you can be immature forever... CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... I'd be happy with a Slim's standard remote if it just had learning capabilities. -- jonheal Jon Heal says: Have a nice day! http://www.theheals.org/ jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... It would be nice to have a SB or transporter with a color display showing the album art. That has the drawback that it would make the SB bigger, bulkier, and generally less sleek. So why not design the remote so that it can physically attach to the SB4? That way, with it attached you have effectively a SB with a color display and buttons, but you can detach it and use it as a remote as well (and making it universal is a great idea!). Also you have a natural place to put the remote when not in use - if you're like me you're always misplacing them. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... And thus the proverbial cat is out of the bag ;) Back to the Sooloos, how can the justify $12,000 for a custom Linux box, even it it does have a top end DAC and touch screen? -- autopilot *SlimServer Version:* 6.5 - Windows XP. *Amp:* Cambridge Audio 640a (living room) / Denon MD30 (bedroom). *Speakers:* Mission 701's (living room) / Kef Cresta 1's (bedroom). *Remote:* T-Mobile MDA Vario / Sony PSP / Cambridge Audio Explorer (IR). *Clients:* 1 Squeezebox3 + Softsqueeze. autopilot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... Oh Boy! I'll buy it yesterday.make it work for theTransporter too... Please? -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
autopilot;145427 Wrote: And thus the proverbial cat is out of the bag ;) Back to the Sooloos, how can anyone justify $12,000 for a custom Linux box, even it it does have a top end DAC and touch screen? You forgot the hot model. :) -- eq72521 eq72521's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1512 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
tamanaco;145212 Wrote: I just want ONE remote. An over simplified example of such hybrid is the Logitech remote for the Xbox 360 which was made with extra buttons to control the Xbox http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...ONTENTID=11250 That is a very nice remote actually. If it could control MediaCenter (or more specifically, MediaPortal which uses the MCE remote in the same way) it would be great. autopilot;145427 Wrote: Back to the Sooloos, how can anyone justify $12,000 for a custom Linux box, even it it does have a top end DAC and touch screen? One word: marketing :) -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
eq72521;145455 Wrote: You forgot the hot model. :) Who cares! I wan't a hot girlfriend or wife - said the eternal bachelor ;) Actually it is a bit suspicious that that need a hot model to sell their stuff... -- tomsi42 SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
autopilot;145427 Wrote: Back to the Sooloos Do you think this is pronounced like So Loose? Anything else seems to conjure up multiple toilets, perhaps owned by a Chinese guy. MC -- ModelCitizen Now what? Squeezebox3 (linear PSU) Benchmark Dac1 Naim NAC 82 Naim NAP 250 Shahinian Arcs. Plus other irrelevant, superfluous and annoying black boxes. Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
tamanaco;145212 Wrote: I agree with what cardinalfang says. The Squeezebox remote control should make the navigation through my music library a pleasant experience. A web interface is fine for changing the Slimserver settings, configuring the Plug-ins, troubleshooting/debugging and all that other stuff, but the web interface is overkill just to change a radio station while I'm lying on the sofa. Many, many computer based products have failed because develpers fail to realize that watching TV and listening to the stereo are mostly passive activities not interactive. That's a very good point. You don't really want to be wading through endless options when you're lying on the couch after a few glasses of wine, and indeed this will put people off. Make something easy to use and people will *want* to use it. From what I've seen of the 770 skin it definitely focusses more on the music side of things - so maybe it's as easy as writing another skin. How about a button at the top of the SS interface to switch between normal (for purely browsing and playing) and advanced (for config) skins and an option to set one of those as the default? -- dSw dSw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=362 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
dSw;145491 Wrote: That's a very good point. You don't really want to be wading through endless options when you're lying on the couch after a few glasses of wine, and indeed this will put people off. Make something easy to use and people will *want* to use it. From what I've seen of the 770 skin it definitely focusses more on the music side of things - so maybe it's as easy as writing another skin. How about a button at the top of the SS interface to switch between normal (for purely browsing and playing) and advanced (for config) skins and an option to set one of those as the default? Or you can have two bookmarks in your browser, http://myslimserver.athome.net:9000/ and http://myslimserver.athome.net:9000/nokia770/ If you use firefox you can put them on the bookmarks toolbar... -- tomsi42 SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
seanadams;145337 Wrote: You know, that's actually a pretty interesting idea... As long as it is an option and it isn't too expensive. The problem with Sonos, as I see it, is that one remote control all the units in the house. That would be ok for me, because I am a bachelor; so I only need one. But what do you do when dad wants to listen to Steely Dan in his workshop, mum wants to listen to soft jazz in the living room with a few friends, and the kids are listening to internet radio while doing homework... It gets very expensive when you have to have 4 or 5 remotes at $299! But with the squeezebox the remote (albeit a bit simple) is included. I would like a reasonably small remote (PDA size - eg. the Palm lifebook) with a display (640x480 or better) that lets me browse my music fast and makes it easy to create playlists quickly. If it uses Wifi or is a pure remote using IR - wwhatever is cheap and reliable. A scrollwheel is nice, or use a touch screen (with or without a stylus). Why do I want it - because when I invite friends to a party, I let them choose the music, and a laptop takes to much space (and it gets filled with beer and wine and...). -- tomsi42 SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Yannzola;144799 Wrote: Agreed on both counts. Hot model, alright, but the stupidest product name ever. -- jonheal Jon Heal says: Have a nice day! http://www.theheals.org/ jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Now imagine rather than a dirty great remote screen a small little colour jobby like the ones on an ipod video... just sufficient to show a couple of thumbnails of your album cover. That would be more appropriate - and save a lot of time. You could then colour code your music collection - sensibly - Red = Rock; Black = Heavy Metal... Yellow = Folk... Polka Dot = Dance... -- roamingstudio roamingstudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6923 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
I just don't understand the whole Sonos remote-envy thing. With Slim, a palm PC, tablet PC, or just a small laptop are imo superior to the limited abilities of any remote. I mean, you get the whole enchilada web interface with all the capabilities of the Slim software. What's the big deal about the Sonos remote, compared to that? -- joncourage joncourage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
But Sean - you so need a hot model. -- joncourage joncourage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
That's what I call a hot little box! TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
joncourage;145008 Wrote: let PC, or just a small laptop are imo superior to the limited abilities of any remote. I mean, you get the whole enchilada web interface with all the capabilities of the Slim software. What's the big deal about the Sonos remote, compared to that? For me it's speed, both in updating the screen and starting up. A dedicated remote would be instantly on and scrolling through lists and album art would be at native code speeds, not web page refresh (even with AJAX it's not that snappy, and it isn't widely supported on mobile devices yet either). Also dedicated and correctly labeled controls and buttons would make it easier for the rest of my family to use - that scroll wheel on the Sonos makes it very attractive to iPod users. Also, I don't want everyone to have access to the server settings for example - there may be a way to prevent my kids from messing things up, but I'd rather them not see anything at all to do with set-up by default. In short, I don't want a device masquerading as a remote, no matter how convincing, I want the real thing tailored for the purpose in both software and hardware affordance and usability. In the meantime I'd settle for a faster Flash-based interface on a PSP instead - I did try making one myself using OpenLaszlo but found that my PSP didn't allow me to tunnel out to the server :-( Hopefully they'll put a better vesrion of Flash on there soon. -- CardinalFang You're only young once, but you can be immature forever... CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Makes sense, I can understand then why I didn't understand the need - none of those things really matters much to me. I'm pretty impressed with the speed of the new version (6.5); a big improvement over 6.3 in my system. I'm also running Slimserver on a dedicated PC with the server and scanner running at the highest possible priority levels, that has helped quite a bit to keep it snappy. Everyone in my household is pretty web-savvy, and we generally have a laptop (or 3:) sitting near-enough to where we listen, so the Slim interface was readily adopted. I'd bet there are ways to secure the config settings, maybe plugins exist with password security? (isn't that already in the interface?) Maybe there's a market for someone to develop a sonos-form-factor remote for slimserver. -- joncourage joncourage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Slick interface, but, uh, $12,000 USD for the base system! Wonder if that includes the subscription service? I bet Slim could (WILL) eventually offer a Slim Controller to rival the Sonos or Sooloos designs, for the rest of us. -- sleepysurf squeezebox2 (with elpac linear psu) benchmark dac1 modwright swl 9.0 pre sunfire cinema grand ml summits. blue jeans cables. sleepysurf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Looks to me like a triumph of marketing over substance (pretty normal huh?), unlike SD which unusually for these times seems to be the reverse. Glad to see the boxes have no useless buttons and knobs on them. I can't belive that anyone would want a ruddy great touch screen on their dinner table. I think the remote is where it's at really. I'll be interested to see the technical specs. The web site is noticeable for it's lack of any sort of detail (pretty model though.. lovely cleavage). MC -- ModelCitizen Why does it always happen to me? Squeezebox2 Benchmark Dac1 Naim NAC 82 Naim NAP 250 Shahinian Arcs. Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
ModelCitizen;144738 Wrote: Glad to see the boxes have no useless buttons and knobs on them... (pretty model though.. lovely cleavage). MC Agreed on both counts. -- Yannzola Yannzola's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=874 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: The Sooloos
Yannzola;144799 Wrote: Agreed on both counts. Heh... which two counts was that? :) -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28499 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
