from:"lernermichelle"

Kerry, I'm sorry.
Michelle

Re: Tiny passed

 
Sally, I am so sorry. Perhaps he had mediastinal lymphoma.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/25/2006 6:40:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 
I am so sorry to tell everyone  that Tiny just passed over. He had a 
seemingly benign URI. Not really showing  symptoms of being in distress. He 
seemed 
worse today, but not life  threatening. Five minutes ago he started choking I 
tried to hold him nothing  would help. He was turning blue. Before I could get 
oxygen to him he was gone.  I so did not expect this like this. He was the 
healthier one of my two FelV  babies. This has been one horrible year. 
Sally

Re: Seeking a pal for L'il Abner

 
I've heard of 2 who lived to 14, and two who lived to 10, and one to 9. I  
lost one at 7, one at 5, and two younger, but have two who are over 5 years old 
 
right now (knock on wood-- I get scared even writing it).  It really  varies.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/25/2006 11:52:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi All,  
I'm Karen - I'm new here. 
I've been reading about poor Bandy  Tiny  have  tears in my eyes.  I feel 
so sad for you guys.  
We lost our baby, Mr. Spock, a week ago.  He was just 6  months when we got 
him  was FELV+ and had a great year with us and his  best pal L'il Abner (also 
FELV+).  Then he was diagnosed with lymphoma,  and he did very well with 
chemotherapy for almost two months; then a sudden  decline.  We were very 
saddened 
to lose him; he was my little baby   such a trooper to put up with 
everything he went through recently.  And  he went through so much.  (Can I 
attach a 
picture to this  forum?) 
Now Abner is super-depressed.  We have to get  him another pal ASAP.  But 
it's so costly (emotionally  financially)  to lose a cat every year (we also 
lost Max a year ago). 
My vet says we could get a healthy cat  she  can inject him with a great 
FELV vaccine  he has 85% chance of not  getting the virus.  But we could never 
forgive ourselves if he got  sick.  So Phil, my husband, says let's get a 
healthy cat that's about to  be euthanized and then we would at least be saving 
him 
for awhile even if he  DOES get the virus.  Problem is, vet says to keep new 
cat separate from  Abner for 25 days  then she'll inject him again, and THEN 
they can be  together.  But Abner's so depressed, I don't think he can 
last that  long.  So we'll have to get another FELV cat for him -- any thoughts 
as  to whether a 4-yr-old may live longer than a 1-yr-old diagnosed with the 
FELV  virus?  What's the longest life you know of in a FELV+ indoor  cat? 
I think this is a great support group.  
Karen

Re: Constipated Kitty

Slippery elm works really well, especially when it's boiled with a little  
water into a syrup and syringed.
Michelle

Re: How do yall do it?

 
I'm sure we all stress and cry a lot. some of us have medical problems of  
our own that are probably caused or exacerbated by stress. And if you lose  
enough animals, there is some sense of resignation that comes too, I  think.  
It 
is not any less sad or upsetting, but the amount of crying  dissipates, at 
least for me. Because it gets so much less surprising, even if it  still hurts 
as 
much.
 
I pray to be able to go at least a year at a time without a loss.   It's been 
since February now, when I lost Ginger. I get scared that this means  there 
is an impending loss.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 1:04:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi guys,
 
I don't have an FELV+ that I know of, but I do have a kitty with VSM  
(ventricular septal defect) - a heart condition.  She could die at any  time, 
or she 
could live for quite a while.  (If you could add her to the  prayer list, that 
would be great).  Her name is Missy, and I love her  more than anything in 
the world. 
 
She had an echocardiogram and was diagnosed with VSM this summer.  I  think I 
have cried every day since.  Before she had the echo I thought  she would be 
dead every day when I got home.  Now I'm sure she will  be.  Nice as the heart 
list people are, I can't really read that list; it  is too close to home.  I 
can barely read this one, and I cry a lot here  too. 
 
How do yall stand it?  I don't think I am strong enough.
 
Kelley

Re: loose stools (Ember)

a lot of things can cause loose stool, but hair balls are probably not one  
of them. they tend to cause constipation.
 
are you sure she has hair balls? cats with ibd (inflammatory bowel  disease), 
which my Lucy has, can vomit in a way that looks like they are hacking  up 
hair balls, and can also have loose stool on and off.  The best thing  for that 
seems to be home-made diets, and most of all to be consistent and stick  to 
one food.  the most digestible of the store-bought foods for ibd seems  to be 
Innova EVO, which has no grains, as grains seem to irritate ibd in cats.  you 
might want to try that, and not change or add any foods for a while--  
switching 
back and forth is the worst.
 
michelle

Re: How do yall do it?

 
The way I have dealt with the fear of loss thing, in the past, is to tell  
myself that when they are gone, all I will want is the chance to hold them and  
pet them and smell them and talk to them again, and will feel like I would 
give  anything for 5 minutes of it. And look! they are still here, and I can do 
all  that right now, and I don't want to waste it by worrying about the future. 
it  does not take away the anxiety, but it does intensify the joy, and helps 
me to  stay more in the moment with them.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 1:58:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I tell  her I love her every day...multiple times a day

Re: Seeking a pal for L'il Abner

 
actually, I think someone on this list had one who was vaccinated but  turned 
positive. And I am pretty sure that the shelter where my cats came from,  at 
which some of the positives live with negative ferals who are vaccinated, a  
few of the ferals have turned positive over the years. 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 2:27:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

while  the vaccine is said to be only 85% effective, no one that we can find 
can show  a documented case of a truly negative, vaccinated cat ever 
contracting FeLV  from living closely with a positive. which makes sense, since 
they 
say that up  to 70% of healthy ADULT cats who are not vaccinated can be exposed 
and throw  the virus off. so some of us question that 85% rate, and wonder if 
it's not  across all populations, including the high-risk ones.

Re: Seeking a pal for L'il Abner

 
ok, so it may be hard to definitively prove that a negative cat, after  being 
vaccinated, became positive. But it can't be proved they haven't, either,  so 
if someone wants to be safe and not mix I would not discourage that. I don't  
criticize anyone for mixing who does, but I also don't think anyone should  
be trying to convince someone who is hesitant that there is no way the negative 
 can turn positive from exposure. You just don't know that, and there are 
some  cases that indicate, potentially if not definitively, that they can.  
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 2:46:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

ah, but  the issue is, truly negative--not only are snap tests not that 
reliable even  when done correctly (which isn't always the case at shelters), 
but 
unless one  knows for sure that any given cat couldn't possibly have been in 
contact with  a positive cat for at least 90 days before a test, you can't 
really know that  a negative test is accurate anyway. that's why retesting is 
so 
vital.  

shelters around here, until recently, only used the old-style saliva  tests, 
which are incredibly unreliable--we brought an absolute sweetheart of a  
tortie into the house from there, and tho she'd tested negative (and had 4  
supposedly healthy kittens, and nursed another 4 orphans), she ended up being  
diagnosed positive when she became very ill at about 18 months, and went to  
the 
bridge soon afterwards. in the household with her had been two kittens  who'd 
only been about 3-months-old when they joined the household, as well as  a 
couple 
of quite elderly cats--both high-risk populations, and none of the  others in 
the household ever tested positive, luckily! (the 3-month-olds are  now going 
on seven) 

the need for retesting was just not clearly  enough understood, nor was the 
great variability in accuracy in snap tests (i  think susan h found research 
showing a range of errors from 20-80%!). i know  of two sanctuaries that never 
retested their positives, who have since begun  doing so, and have discovered 
that a fair number of their older cats who have  lived exclusively with 
FeLVs, often those with active disease, and who have  had their own bouts of 
serious illnesses thought to be FeLV-related, who  actually were found to be 
negative on the IFA, even after years of constant  exposure

Re: How do yall do it?

 
There are meds for cats with heart conditions. My Snowball was on them.  They 
do not necessarily save them, but I think they can extend life in some  
cases, and certain drugs like lasix can make them more comfortable if they get  
fluid build-up.
Michelle

In a message dated 12/26/2006 2:45:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I wasn't  really happy with the recommendations of the internist (basically 
wait and see  if it gets worse) so I am taking her to the cardiologist this  
time.   I am told she may have me chant over her and things.  I  will  chant 
all 
day if it makes her better.  I just am not really  happy with forking over 
$380 and being told to go home and see if it gets  worse and wait to see if she 
will live or die.

Re: How do yall do it?

 
oh, i did not catch the problem. I have never heard of that problem.   It 
sounds like you are doing everything you can.  
michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 2:53:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Yes, the  internist didn't feel it was bad enough for meds, or that there 
were any meds  to put her on at this point.  She is asymptomatic except for 
having a  hole in her heart.  She has been checked for fluid build up and has  
none.  My regular vet has instructed me to bring her in immediately at  any 
sign 
of panting, so I check her about every 3 minutes to see if she is  panting.

Re: How do yall do it?-- Asia

 
Dianne,
  How is Asia doing?
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 3:00:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thank you for this.  It reminded me of the  day  Asia was diagnosed with 
FELV, even before the Lymphoma I was  down in the dumps and wondering why 
this 
again in my life(last year was  horrible with the loss of 4 pets and a 
husband and a couple rescue  dogs)
 
anyway, it came to me that Asia picked me ...she  did, there was no doubt 
about it when it happened last Dec. I knew, her foster  parents knew, we talked 
about it.
 
It came to me loud and clear that God had her  pick me because I would take 
care of her to the very best of my ability and  would not give up easily.  
 
Dianne

Re: How do yall do it?-- Asia

 
CCNU is another rescue drug like elspar that can help cats who have come  
out of remission. I think that it puts smething like 50% of cats with lymphoma  
back into remission after they have come out of it.
 
Also, I don't remember, but I don't think your vet's protocol includes  
adriamycin, another strong chemo drug that wipes out a lot of lymphoma. another 
 
drug to ask about if the tumor is back again.
 
hoping she stays feeling good,
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 3:17:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The vet said the tumor was gone 2 weeks ago, then last week said it was  back 
and added the Elspar.  Asia is breathing easily, moving around quite  a bit 
and lapping up all the loving she can get.  She is not as active as  she was 
before getting sick, but she is much better than Thanksgiving  week.  I think 
she is not gaining weight as she should but will see on  Friday when we go back 
to vet
 
thanks for asking
Dianne

Re: Constipated Kitty

 
You can actually just add bone meal powder, or use a pre-mixed supplement  
like feline futures ( i have used this and the cats like it).
 
bone meal powder does not really add fiber, though. If anything, it  
constipates if you give too much.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 9:18:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

If you  feed the RAW chicken WITH the bones, the bones added needed fiber  and
nutrients not available in boneless meats (you should never feed COOKED  
chicken
bones, as once they are cooked they become brittle and can splinter  and be 
dangerous
to eat). If you don't want to feed bones, you will need to  add a supplement
SPECIFICALLY created for supplementing meat without bones  diets, such as 
Wild-Trax.
You can also provide additional nutrients and  fiber by adding Feline Missing 
Link,
another good supplement that is also  high fiber. Feeding raw diets not 
including bone
cause a calcium phosporous  ratio issue, and is very bad for cats. Raw is 
great, but
you have to either  feed the bones, or supplement with a specific supplement 
that
replaces the  nutrients normally found in bones.

Re: Seeking a pal for L'il Abner

 
I don't know. all mine were a year or two old when tested. I have lost  them 
at all different ages. I think it just depends on the cats. It might be  true 
that it makes a difference if they are born with it versus contracting it  
after the first weeks, though, since they have at least developed some immune  
system at that point.
 
So glad you are adopting, though! and wishing him a long, healthy, happy  
life with you and Lil Abner! :)
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 7:58:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

We have  decided to go with a 4-yr-old FELV+ male who, I think, has a better  
chance at living for longer than a year.  A common belief seems to  be that 
kittens and younger ones will only live 2-3 years.  Hopefully he contracted it 
as an adult,  can fend off the  disease for a longer time.

Re: loose stools (Ember)

 
Lucy responded to prednisone, and gets worse with processed foods, so we  
concluded ibd without further testing, which I did not want to put her  through.
 
I would actually try flagyl (metronidazole) before centrine.  Lucy has  been 
on a low dose of it for almost 2 months now and has been way better-- is  down 
to only 1.25 mg of pred every other day.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/26/2006 7:04:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 a  lot of things can cause loose stool, but hair balls are probably   
 not one   of them. they tend to cause  constipation.

I've only found a few references to diarrhea accompanying  hairballs,  
but one of the places was the Anitra Frazier book. I  would think she  
would be over it by now, if it was related to the  hairball.

 are you sure she has hair balls? cats with ibd  (inflammatory bowel   
 disease),  which my Lucy has,  can vomit in a way that looks like  
 they are hacking   up  hair balls, and can also have loose stool on  
 and  off.

Yeah, it was definitely a nasty hairball. I've been trying to  brush  
her more. How were you finally able to come to conclusion that  Lucy  
has IBD? I've been reading about it, and it seems like it takes  lots  
of trial and error.

 The best thing  for  that  seems to be home-made diets, and most of  
 all to be  consistent and stick  to  one food.  the most digestible   
 of the store-bought foods for ibd seems  to be  Innova EVO,  which  
 has no grains, as grains seem to irritate ibd in  cats.  you  might  
 want to try that, and not change or  add any foods for a while--
 switching  back and  forth is the worst.

Ember is on Innova EVO canned and dry, fortunately.  I'm thinking  
about pulling back on the dry a bit. I just hate to  take away food  
when she will eat it. She still has her appetite, and  while I can't  
tell yet if it's normal, she certainly went up to the  bowl of EVO  
canned tonight and attacked it like usual.

I  spoke to my new vet about this (my old vet retired two days after   
Ember's appointment last week, and my new vet is in the clinic he   
started). She wants me to give Ember a few doses of Centrine (one   
every twelve hours). I'm not a fan of that kind of medicine. We  might  
be able to get an endoscopy in town if it comes to that, but  my vet  
recommended going to a specialist in a city two hours away  for that,  
as she feels they see more unusual cases and would know  what they're  
seeing.

Something needs to be done, as when I  got home from work today, I  
found a messy, unformed poop in the box,  and some pancake batter in  
the sink. I'm just glad that she's eating  and playing normally.


Lance

Re: Long post..Tiny and Junior's stories

Sally, you and yours have been through a lot. I am sorry for it.  But  glad 
you are blessed with all of them, and them with you. 
Michelle

Re: Asia update

2006-12-30 Thread Lernermichelle

I think fish oil, coq10, and essiac tea would probably be the best in terms  
of fighting cancer.  These can all e expensive, but there are sources to  get 
them pretty cheaply as well. For dogs, they think that arginine, an amino  
acid, helps fight the lymphoma and make them feel better, and Hills puts a lot  
of it in their canine lymphoma canned diet.  I don't know if they have  
researched it with cats.
 
Michelle

Re: OT - Help, aggressive cat

2006-12-30 Thread Lernermichelle

If you are able to touch her ears, I would ask the vet to prescribe  benadryl 
to be compounded at a compounding pharmacy into transdermal cream to  rub 
inside her ear.  My Patches has been on this for years for  anxiety.  She was 
prescribed it because she was pulling her fur out of her  belly and back legs, 
and the benadryl stopped that. But she also used to go  after the other cats, 
and the benadryl pretty much stopped that too. If I forget  to give it to her, 
it is noticeable because she goes after Lucy and sometimes  even me. With the 
benadryl she is pretty much fine. It does not seem to make her  groggy at all-- 
she is quite perky and energetic-- but just takes the edge off I  guess.
Michelle

Re: OT - Help, aggressive cat

 
The Benadryl really works for Patches.  But I think (dont remember for  sure) 
the dose is about 1/6 of a pill at a time, or 1/3 of a pill. I don't think  
it is half a pill, but not sure. I get it compounded for her ears because she 
is  hard to pill and I was having to chase her around and tackle her to do it, 
while  she tried to kill me, and after a few days of it I realized it was 
probably not  so helpful to her anxiety to put her through that twice a day (or 
to 
mine!). 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/30/2006 10:56:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

And the Benadryl can be given  daily?  It really calms them down?  Who would 
have thought  it was so easy... and with something we actually have in the 
house!!  We  have another boy Angelo who used to be our alpha male and was 
overthrown  by our 25lb baby Rudy.  Now poor Angelo hides all the time and we 
feel  
terrible for him.  The vet prescribed some medication for him... but it  
didn't seem to work (we called them his Superman Pills).  It's  heartbreaking 
to 
see him constantly looking for Rudy.  We resorted to  putting a large bell on 
Rudy's collar that is very different sounding from all  the other cats so 
Angelo could hear him... but if we could give them something  that doesn't make 
them loopy... yet will give him back a quality of life...  that would be 
great!! 
  Thanks a million Jennifer and  Michelle for the information!!  I'm giving 
it a try tonight!!  
Leslie  =^..^=

Re: Marley

 
That's great to hear!
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/30/2006 10:19:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thank you so much Nina and all who had sweet Marley,he is back at the  
sanctuary and feeling much like himself.He looks up with me with those  
beautiful 
yellow eyes and just melts my heart.He loves to be held just like a  baby.I am 
going to send Dr. Jen a thank you for making him feel better.I hope  everyone 
hasa wonderful new year,be safe and take care.
Sherry

Re: OT: food allergic cat

 
There is some condition called militis, or something, that can cause itchy  
scabs around the head.  Robert McDowell, a really good herbalist in  Australia, 
had something about a treatment for it in his last newsletter. Here  is his 
website: _http://www.herbal-treatments.com.au/_ 
(http://www.herbal-treatments.com.au/) .   He does free online consults for 
animals. If you go to this link 
you will see a  hyperlink for such consults. I would email him and see what he 
thinks. If there  is something he thinks you can do at home without ordering 
something from him,  he will tell you.  If he thinks one of his herbal remedies 
will help, or  that he can make something for him, he will tell you that too. 
I have found his  remedies very helpful for me, my horse Pepsi when she was 
alive, and my dogs. I  have never used one for a cat, but he recently started 
making things especially  for cats and if he had something that seemed 
applicable to one of mine I would  probably try it.
Michelle
 
 
In a message dated 12/31/2006 11:33:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I was also glad to see the Benadryl transdermal cream mentioned by  Michelle, 
I am anxious to hear how it works for  Elizabeth's  Phelix.  Our Scooter is 
having problems with an itchy head, our vet  diagnosed food allergy and gave us 
an antibiotic powder to dry out the sores  in front of his ears.  We are 
faithfully putting the powder on twice a  day and have now changed his diet to 
Natural Balance - Venison  Green  Pea, without success.  He continued to 
scratch 
and one  sore started creeping uncomfortably close to his eye, so we have 
resorted to  an Elizabethan collar for now.  I asked my vet about giving 
Benadryl 
 orally, and he said it wouldn't do any good until we find the allergen and  
eliminate it.  I will ask him for the transdermal  cream on Tuesday.  I have 
to do something for the poor guy, he  can't just stay collared while I try one 
diet after another...
Does anyone else out there have suggestions for an allergic  cat?  Anything 
homeopathic?  Some type of soothing herbal  mixture to cleanse the sores with?  
I am going to try a  prescription allergy diet next, if that doesn't work I 
know of a local vet  who offers some alternative therapies...
 
Thanks,
Beth, Blue, Moxie, Dash, Scooter, Will Feral, and Max the  Parrot.

Re: the more I learn

Sally,
   It is impossible to know.  My friend Yuki called me  yesterday to tell me 
that her cat Tiko, age 13 and negative, died while she was  away for 3 days. 
Her mom had been feeding him and said he was fine, then could  not find him the 
last day. Yuki came home and found him dead. She has no idea  what happened. 
She did not know he was sick.  Her cat Sinbad, who had  distemper as a kitten 
and has severe neurological and other problems, is now 15  and the last of her 
cats left. We always assumed he would be the first to go,  not the last. My 
dog Fern was the only one of our 3 dogs who had any health  problems that we 
knew of, and she had a lot of them, and she outlived the other  two.  It seems 
to happen that way a lot. I think that is why people say  things like Man 
makes plans and God laughs. We think we know what is going to  happen, but we 
don't.  Tiny may have died from something totally unrelated  to FeLV, like a 
heart problem.  My dog Chip seemed healthier than healthy,  had just run 4 
miles 
with me two days earlier and was out running around on a  walk, and suddenly 
collapsed, cried out, and was dead.  She must have had a  latent heart 
condition.  She literally looked and acted like an athlete,  and was only 9 
years old.  
we will never know what happened to her.
 
   We do the best we can to figure things out while they are  happening, and 
sometimes we can and sometimes we can't. I am very bad at  accepting this, but 
am trying to learn to, because it is the way things  are.
 
Michelle

Re: kittens have diarrhea

I would try just evo, and if it continues, I would ask the vet to try a  week 
course of metronidazole (flagyl) to clear up whatever is causing it.
Michelle

Re: kittens have diarrhea

oops-- sorry, I had not read the original post. I see they are already on  
metronidazole. Yes, then I would focus on diet.
Michelle

Re: kittens have diarrhea

if diet does not fix it, I would get a fecal test sent out. Some parasites  
and other things need specific treatment.
Michelle

Re: URI all over my house

 
Lysine and/or amoxicillin should get rid of it. If not, try Immuno-regulin  
as well with the immune-compromised kitty.  Sometimes lysine alone will get  
rid of uri's.
Michelle
 
 
In a message dated 1/1/2007 7:06:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ugh.  I come home from work yesterday and every single cat I have  (except 
Caroline, who is isolated) has runny nose and sneezing.  Of  course Missy, with 
her bad immune system, has it worse than anyone; she's  already got piles of 
yellow discharge coming out of her nose.  And of  course my vet is closed until 
Tuesday. 
 
I just had Shimmer at the vet Friday for a bladder infection; he had no  
signs of URI at that time.  WHere does it come  from?

Re: please add my Lizzie to CLS and prayer list

Hideyo, I just read this and am so, so sorry.  I can not believe all  your 
losses. Please call if you ever need to talk.
Michelle

Re: question about lucy and ibd symptom

I did put a hot water bottle under a cushion, and she is laying on it.  She 
definitely has not had this symptoms before-- I can tell it is not something 
she has had and hidden. She looks terrible.  I don't have to wonder about 
someone sneaking her anything-- I myself gave her dry evo for a few days, which 
she 
seemed to tolerate until 2 days ago. I stopped giving it to her yesterday, 
though, because she got sick like this the night before last.

thanks,
michelle

In a message dated 1/1/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
I don't know, but she sounds like she is having either cramps or gas. I 
really don't know what to do about cramps in an IBD cat... but MAYBE a heat 
pack 
under he belly could make her more comfortable. But as to why now, and not 
before, I have no idea. Maybe before she was just hiding her pain better, and 
when 
she saw that YOU were sick, and didn't hide your suffering, it made her feel 
like she didn't have to hide hers? I dunno, I'm attributing human psychology to 
a cat there, so it's a long shot. Or maybe someone else in the family was 
sneaking her something she usually doesn't get because you are paying 
attention, 
and you were in bed not watching? (I don't know if you have kids apt to do 
something like that or not)

Phaewryn

Re: lucy and ibd - colitis/depo medrol

Were Maris's symptoms constant, or only at a particular time of day? Lucy has 
had colitis symptoms before, treated with pred and flagyl, just has never had 
these episodes of a few hours a day of visible dicomfort. other times of day 
she eats, etc., but this is the second time in 3 nights she has been sick at 
night.
thanks,
michelle

In a message dated 1/1/2007 9:07:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One of my own cats, Marie, developed colitis as a result of tritrichomonas 
foetus.  Took months to get her through it.  Her lower intestines were so 
inflamed that she was in pain and did not want to eat.  What really worked for 
her 
was a depo medrol injection.  That got the inflammation down while the 
metronidazole (after the ronidazole) had time to work.  Over a 6 month period 
she 
needed 2 depo injections.  I've had two other cats with bad parasite infections 
who needed a depo injection while treatment kicked in.

Side note -- my vet did not want to call it IBD because he felt the term 
was overused.  He called it colitis and the tritrich was confirmed by a fecal 
test.

Re: lucy and ibd - colitis/depo medrol

She was down to every other day at 1.25 mg, in the morning. I started giving 
it to her twice a day, same dose, starting last night. 

My guess is that it has to do with her digestion cycle. She has only been 
moving her bowels at night, and maybe the food hits her colon around this time 
and she gets spasms or something. I can't figure out any other explanation.  
her 
ibd symptoms were under control.  

Michelle

In a message dated 1/1/2007 9:44:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Marie was pretty consistently miserable.  It was obvious that her tummy hurt 
a lot.  And she was leaking watery/bloody feces. (Didn't even look like feces. 
 Very scary.)  Any chance that the pred is affecting the timing of Lucy's 
discomfort?

Re: lucy and ibd - colitis/depo medrol

She still looks out of it, but I offered her the water bowl and she seemed 
interested but then saw it was just water and looked at me. So I offered her 
her 
raw food, and she started eating. While laying down. I can't figure out what 
she is feeling.
Michelle

Re: lucy and ibd - colitis/depo medrol

The reglan actually seemed to make her feel worse-- very restless in addition 
to discomfort. That can be a side effect of it.

She will not eat the mush anymore, no matter what. She does want her raw food 
again, with the feline futures, and so she is eating that. She ate quite a 
bit of it today.  But then got uncomfortable at about 6 pm. She still looks out 
of it to me, but is laying in a normal position and ate some. But she does not 
want to be pet, which is unusual for her, and she only is like that when she 
is uncomfortable.

patches won't eat the turkey mush either at this point. They both decided to 
stop eating it. It is not the batch, because I made another batch. Patches and 
Ginger, when they ate canned food, used to simultaneously stop eating 
whatever flavor they had been insisting on for weeks, and I would think it was 
something wrong with the can and open another, but no, they just both decided 
to 
boycott that flavor and wanted to switch. Patches and Lucy both seem to be 
doing 
that with the turkey mush now, which is ok for patches because she can eat 
other things, but not ok for Lucy.

Michelle

In a message dated 1/1/2007 10:03:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Sweetie,
I'm sorry to hear Lucy is so uncomfortable.  Gypsy has been acting a little 
off the last few days too.  I'm so lucky that she doesn't seem to tire of her 
turkey mush.  I know that if I were to take to my bed she'd be in big trouble.  
She still needs me to pet her when she eats.  If Gypsy eats anything other 
than her mush, she becomes symptomatic again.  Did I read that you gave her 
reglan and it helped?  That's one of the things I reach for when she's doing 
that 
hunched back, my tummy doesn't feel good, kind of thing.  Usually one dose is 
enough to help her, this last bout of not feeling great has been dragging on 
for her though.  I can tell she still doesn't feel her normal 85%.  Your 
supposition about her bowel cycle sounds right to me too, maybe it also has to 
do 
with excess gas from the diet change.  Have you tried to reintroduce the mush, 
(or whatever she's been doing well on that she decided not to eat when she 
started having her tummy aches), earlier in the day when she's feeling better?
Nina

Re: lucy and ibd - colitis/depo medrol

Nina,
   Has Gypsy ever had this thing of only feeling sick at a certain time of 
day?

Michelle

In a message dated 1/1/2007 11:05:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Sweetie,
I'm sorry to hear Lucy is so uncomfortable.  Gypsy has been acting a little 
off the last few days too.  I'm so lucky that she doesn't seem to tire of her 
turkey mush.  I know that if I were to take to my bed she'd be in big trouble.  
She still needs me to pet her when she eats.  If Gypsy eats anything other 
than her mush, she becomes symptomatic again.  Did I read that you gave her 
reglan and it helped?  That's one of the things I reach for when she's doing 
that 
hunched back, my tummy doesn't feel good, kind of thing.  Usually one dose is 
enough to help her, this last bout of not feeling great has been dragging on 
for her though.  I can tell she still doesn't feel her normal 85%.  Your 
supposition about her bowel cycle sounds right to me too, maybe it also has to 
do 
with excess gas from the diet change.  Have you tried to reintroduce the mush, 
(or whatever she's been doing well on that she decided not to eat when she 
started having her tummy aches), earlier in the day when she's feeling better?
Nina

fip question

2007-01-02 Thread Lernermichelle

I spoke to my vet about lucy, and he did not see a reason to bring her in.  
He agreed that her discomfort for a few hours in the evening is probably 
related  to her ibd and to up her flagyl and pred a little.
 
I have, though, probably irrationally, started worrying about wet  FIP.  Her 
sides look a little pooched out to me, which may just be that she  had lost 
some weight for the couple weeks she did not want her turkey mush and  looks a 
bit skinny all over and has just started gaining it back so may be  gaining it 
back in her tummy first. But, not knowing why she is getting  uncomfortable 
for a few hours a day, and being paranoid about fip, I started  worrying that 
maybe the poochiness is fluid accumulation. I looked for a wet fip  photo 
online 
but can not find one.  I found info on wet fip symptoms, and  it did say that 
fluid accumulation can happen slowly and that other symptoms can  be 
intermittent inappetance and depression.  Does anyone think she could  have 
fip? When 
she is not having the discomfort, she is pretty normal, maybe a  slight bit 
less active than usual, but she is eating quite a bit.  When  cats get wet fip, 
are the symptoms normally constant? Should I be worried about  this? And is 
fluid accumulation very obviously fluid, or could it look sort of  like tummy 
weight gain (i.e. when I look at her from behind, her butt looks thin  and I 
can 
see her sides sticking out a bit, rather than just chubby all over  like my 
other cats). Does the fluid feel mush like water, or firm? If I press on  her 
belly, it just feels like her stomach is bigger.
 
Thanks for any thoughts or advice.  I think if I call my vet and ask  him 
this he will think I have gone round the bend, but I am feeling  anxious.
 
michelle

thanks for the fip info

2007-01-03 Thread Lernermichelle

Thanks to everyone who wrote to me. It has made me calmer. Lucy is eating  
better and better, and gaining weight, and not feverish or acting sick in any  
way other than seeming to feel some abdominal discomfort in the evenings. Her  
belly is getting bigger, but she is also gaining weight back quickly, and her  
spine is not knobby, so I am hoping that she is just gaining the weight back  
unevenly.  She is quite active in the daytime. I did up her flagyl and her  
pred (pred to 2.5 mg/day) and her appetite immediately doubled. She is eating 
at  least a normal amount at this point.
 
Thanks again, everyone,
Michelle

Re: O/T

2007-01-05 Thread Lernermichelle

 
Some cats get almost comatose from it. Two of mine have. Others are fine  
with it, though. Two of mine just had stimulated appetites with no side  
effects.
 
In a message dated 1/5/2007 8:23:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

.I am concerned that the periactin might cause drowsiness,as some  
antihistimines do in people.

Re: Please add to CLS -- Alberta

2007-01-06 Thread Lernermichelle

Oh my god, Kerry, I can't believe you have another loss so soon. I am so  
terribly sorry.
Michelle

Re: Junior

2007-01-06 Thread Lernermichelle

keep making sure that he pees and is not blocked.
Michelle

Re: Bandit

2007-01-09 Thread Lernermichelle

 
It sounds like the symptoms Kerry's Bandy was showing sometimes for months,  
though it was attributed to him being positive. Fever and problems with one 
back  leg and lethargy.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/8/2007 10:21:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Bandit is 3.5 years, 15 pounds, and neg/neg. He's healthy,  but
overweight. Saturday night we came home, dished out the  nightly
feeding to eight cats, and when we opened the door to where he and  his
brother eat, found him lying on the bathmat. He wouldn't get up,  and
when stood up (very gently, my hands by him so he woudln't fall),  
wouldn't walk. Well, he tried a little but seemed to be in such  pain
that we quickly put him on the warm waterbed, which the cats all  find
a comfort zone.

When I felt him, it felt like heat was  radiating from his left rear
knee, and possibly from his front left paw. He  was extremely
lethargic. However he did respond with affection to the  attention he
was getting. He did *not* feel hot. We thought perhaps he'd  fallen off
the cat tree in his sleep (top perch is about 8 feet high, he  has
fallen off of much shorter places in his sleep).

So (it being  midnight), we locked him in our bedroom with us and all
the amenities. He  slept snuggled up to me all night, which he never
gets to do these days (we  have to lock them out with the kittens here
or there's no sleep to be had).  The next day he seemed much less
lethargic, and more like he'd hurt his  leg. He could walk on it some,
but clearly experienced discomfort.  

We opted to wait until Monday, when he could go see his regular  vet,
where my partner works (yes, there are financial reasons here). So  we
went today, and found out his temp was 103.8. The vet did a  very
careful exam and could find NOTHING. No pain on leg extensions;  he
could hyper-extend the knee a little but nothing too crazy for a  cat.
No bites. No nothing.

The fever indicates infection, so they  prescribed Clavamox and to
observe him closely. He's walking better but  is still not himself
(nothing like following a cat around making sure he  doesn't jump).
He'll continue to receive the isolation/snuggle treatment  and I'm
again grateful I can work from home so I can keep an eye on  him.

What in the world?

Lynette   =^..^=

Re: Ember's troubles - your thoughts?

2007-01-09 Thread Lernermichelle

 
I would do a course of flagyl at this point. I have never had a cat react  
badly to it.  For regular diarrhea, it always has cleared it up.  For  IBD, 
which Lucy has and Ember might have, it works really well as an  
anti-inflammatory.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/9/2007 6:05:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

For the  last two and a half weeks, I've been fighting intermittent  
diarrhea  (and possibly constipation) with Ember. I haven't resorted  
to any  medicines like Flagyl or Centrine. I'm trying to treat as  
lightly as  possible. I introduced pumpkin into her diet a few days  
ago, and it  really seemed to help, but today, I found a malformed  
poop in the  box, alongside seemingly normal stuff. I've been making  
daily notes  on this problem, since I realized it would be a good idea  
about a  week into it. Apologies in advance for giving such a blow by  
blow  account, but this seems like the best way. Please have a look  
and  tell me what you think. Aside from opinions, I ask your prayers  
for  Ember.

Thank you,

Re: Transfusions as a systematic treatment

2007-01-09 Thread Lernermichelle

 
My Simon was helped by repeat transfusions, but he had lymphoma in his bone  
marrow and just needed to buy time for the chemo to kick in, which it did.  
 
What is the situation? If I were going to do transfusions, I would also do  
steroids (pred or dex) and either epogen or acemannan, both of which have 
seemed  to reverse anemia for cats on this list.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/9/2007 7:56:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Has anyone had any positive experiences with repeat transfusions of an  FELV 
cat that isn't producing red cells? Any results that show that  transfusions 
(in the absence of any other symptoms but anemia) can at least  keep an FELV at 
status quo? Thanks.

Re: URGENT!!

suggest that she contact best friends. they do a lot in CA and can probably  
direct her to someone helpful.  Also emphasize that they probably do not  have 
fip.
Michelle

Re: Transfusions as a systematic treatment

 
If you bring him to an internist, you might have an easier time convincing  
them to try Epogen.  You can also suggest to the vet that they try it as a  
last attempt, with pred, since it has helped several cats on this list.  
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/10/2007 6:15:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks for all of your replies, I'd love to hear about successes in  treating 
FELVs where the cat's bone marrow is no longer producing red cells-  the vets 
are supportive, BUT don't offer much hope. Of course, the literature  doesn't 
either. I won't put the cat down as long as  he's not in  distress/pain, and 
he's happy.  Yes, I know the conventional wisdom  about this stage of FELV,  
but  In fact, the only real positive  thing that his vets  say is that  he 
seems to be thriving  between transfusions despite the FELV, and persistent  
anemia...

Re: Transfusions as a systematic treatment

 
how long is he going between transfusions, and how low has his pcv  gone?
michelle
 
In a message dated 1/10/2007 6:15:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks for all of your replies, I'd love to hear about successes in  treating 
FELVs where the cat's bone marrow is no longer producing red cells-  the vets 
are supportive, BUT don't offer much hope. Of course, the literature  doesn't 
either. I won't put the cat down as long as  he's not in  distress/pain, and 
he's happy.  Yes, I know the conventional wisdom  about this stage of FELV,  
but  In fact, the only real positive  thing that his vets  say is that  he 
seems to be thriving  between transfusions despite the FELV, and persistent  
anemia...

Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 24, Issue 22

 
7 weeks, or even 4, is pretty good.  I agree that there seems to be  quality 
life and that you are doing the right thing. I think you should try  epogen, 
though, and see if it helps.  It really seemed to cure Belinda's  Bailey's 
anemia, which was not producing red cells, at least combined with  prednisone. 
I 
would ask to do the pred as well.
 
Another thing that has helped one cat on this list was a series of  Acemannan 
shots in the stomach, which brought the pcv back to normal. I do not  know, 
however, if that anemia was regenerative or nonregenerative.  If it  were me, I 
would probably try the epogen and prednisone for a month, and if  there was 
no response at all to it, I would try the acemannan.
 
He is very lucky to have you.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/10/2007 1:09:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

---how long is he going between transfusions, and how low has his  pcv  gone?
michelle
 
Up until this current bout, he was going 7 weeks, and his pcv went down  to 
13. This time, alarmingly it was only 4 weeks. He was never in any  distress, 
except for the first time, because I watxh him closely, and know  when he's 
getting quite low. 
 
As far as epogen, I talked with my vet about it, she said that it won't  do 
any good in a cat that is not producing red cells. However, I asked her  
whether it can hurt, she said probably not, unless he has a rare reaction.  
I've had 
epo myself for my own leukemia, and I know it did me good, but mine  is 
chronic, not acute,,,
 
Thanks again for the responses. Where there's life, and it's quality  life, 
to me, there is ALWAYS hope.

Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 24, Issue 22

Also, Dr. Mike Lees in Ohio, who wrote an article on  Immuno-Regulin posted 
on this group's website, claims that he has reversed  FeLV-related anemia by 
giving a high dose of I-R (1 ml) three times a week for  two weeks.  I and 
others on this list have seen I-R work wonders for cats  with URI's, but to my 
knowledge no one on the list has tried it for  anemia.  I once spoke to Dr. 
Lees 
on the phone, before the first time I  used I-R, and he was very friendly.  You 
might want to call him (his  contact info or at least his clinic's name and 
town are on the article) and ask  about nonregenerative anemia specifically.
 
Michelle

Re: Ember's troubles - your thoughts?

2007-01-12 Thread Lernermichelle

 
Lance,
 
What you are describing sounds like what Lucy has  sometimes. It usually 
means there is a problem in the colon or lower intestines,  like colitis. 
Bowels start normal and end loose.  If there is every any red  blood on the 
outside, that is another sign.
 
 I would not worry about the flagyl. I was worried  about it too, but it 
always helps Lucy. I have yet to actually hear anyone say  it made their cat 
sick in any way. Lucy has been on it for over 2 months now,  every day. It 
helps her a lot. I would at least do a week's course of it and  see.
 
Michelle

Re: question

2007-01-12 Thread Lernermichelle

 
Do you know for sure he has a fever-- are you taking his temp? If so, what  
does it run? If you are going by how warm he feels, they can feel pretty warm  
when they have been curled up sleeping. Their normal temp is so much higher 
than  ours that they usually feel warmer than us.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/12/2007 8:07:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I tend to notice weird stuff. Junior's ears become real thick feeling,  and 
are even shaped funny. I think this happens when he runs a fever, which I  am 
sure is every night. Did anyone else notice this phenomenom? Also are  fevers a 
big concern? I asked my vet about it and it did not seem to be a big  concern 
for her. He eats and except for the eye problem seems to do ok at this  time. 
 
I will call my sister requarding the Alley cats web site. I am sure she  does 
not have internet at this time. She has been on disability for some time  and 
her money is limited. Thanks for the information Phaewryn.
 
Sally Davis

Re: question

2007-01-12 Thread Lernermichelle

 
You probably know by feel then. But you might want to take his temp once  
while he is like that so you have a number to go with the way he feels to you.  
for fevers I would suggest Immuno-regulin, but I think he is already on that,  
right?
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/12/2007 8:39:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

To be  honest I don't like to take his temp because it does not need the 
added  stress. I know that cat's normal temps are much higher than ours his has 
been  as high as 106.5.

Re: question

2007-01-13 Thread Lernermichelle

 
Since the dose is so small, you probably want 1 ml syringes, which are  
small. That is what I use. I have them left over from giving shots to one of 
our  
dogs who died a few years ago.  I know that you can order needles without  
prescription from some vet supply companies, like Revival. I am less sure about 
 
the syringes. If your vet agrees with you trying the I-R sub-q, you should be  
able to get syringes from your vet or get a prescription to use with a vet  
supply company.  But try Revival Animal Health and see if you can order the  
syringes without a prescription from them
 
I don't know about the ears, but am sure someone will have some  ideas.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/13/2007 9:32:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I have  considered doing just that. I don;t have any syringes what ones do 
you use and  where do you get them. I think I read somewhere that you are more 
likely to  get a site reaction on subcutaneus injections. I would think since 
they have  already gooten the injections IV this would be less likely to 
happen.

Re: Marley,Ambrose and Yule

2007-01-14 Thread Lernermichelle

 
Sherry, how are Ambrose and Yule doing? I think I remember you saying  Marley 
is better?
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/7/2007 7:29:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi all just wanted to ask for healing prayers for these wonderful  
boys.Marley my beautiful fuzzy black boy is under the weather yet again and  
Ambrose a 
very handsome Hurricane Katrina survivor is not feeling well.And  Yule one of 
our new x-mas kitties also needs prayers.Thank you all so much and  prayers and 
hugs to all of you.
Sherry

Re: Angel Morgana

 
oh my gosh, I am so sorry. Neither amoxicillin nor periactin should do  
anything like that. 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/15/2007 1:40:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm so  sad.  My little Morgana died less than an hour ago.  I noticed  
something was not right about the way she was lying and picked her up and she  
was 
doing that awful head lolling thing and panting.  I stuck her in a  crate and 
drove as fast as I could to the emergency hospital but she passed  before I 
could get there.  I gaev her her meds earlier and I wonder if  she had a bad 
reaction...just 1/2 droppeful of amoxycillin and 1/2  periactin.  I feel like 
there was something I could have done to stop  it.  My poor little girl was 
only 
3.  She is a white persian  with big beautiful eyes.  She is a tiny girl, just 
5.25  pounds.

URI question

Lucy and Patches both have URI's.  I am giving them both Lysine, I-R  shots 
sub-q (which does not seem to be as effective as IV but I have not wanted  to 
take them to the vet, and Patches passed out last time someone tried to do  
something IV to her), and have Lucy on amoxicillin (only abx she can take  
without irritating her IBD) and Patches on clavamox.  So far they have had  the 
URI's for about 4 days, and have been on abx for 3 days (Lucy) and 2 days  
(Patches).  I am used to URI's clearing up faster than this.  I used  to use 
dox for 
URI's, but what I have is expired, my vet is out of town, doubt  the other guy 
would give it to me, and am afraid to give it to Lucy at this  point due to 
IBD.  But with dox their symptoms used to clear up within a  day or so.  The 
only time i have seen a URI go on this long was with  Ginger, who got a bad one 
after dental surgery and was sick for about 3 weeks  despite doing a few abx, 
but once she got I-R (IV) twice it cleared up.
 
My question is this: when your positive cats get URI's, is it typical that  
the URI's would last this long (4 days) without getting a lot better? They both 
 have stuffy noses and Patches has runny eyes.  The discharge is all clear,  
though Patches seemed to have a tiny bit of yellow from one eye earlier  
today.  They are both eating (Lucy wasn't for a day or so before I-R and  abx), 
grooming, etc.  Patches is also playing.  But they can't seem to  kick the URI. 
 
I have a vicks vaporizer running too, and have used nose  drops every other 
day.  They are functioning, and not very sick (knock on  wood) but it worries 
me 
that they are not getting better.  Any thoughts  would be appreciated.
 
Thanks,
Michelle

Re: felv cat.........

 
It is possible that it could be intestinal lymphoma, a kind of cancer that  
FeLV+ cats are vulnerable to.  If you can, you should take him to an  
oncologist right away.  Chemotherapy in cats is very effective with  lymphoma 
and not 
hard on the cats the way chemo is for humans. Some cats can  live for years in 
remission, though that is less common for FeLV+ cats. But I  have heard of a 
few positive cats living over a year with chemo.
 
That said, it might not be lymphoma.  If you can not go to an  oncologist, 
try to go to a board-certified internist. They are usually at big  veterinary 
hospitals, vet school hospitals, and veterinary referral  centers. They are 
better at diagnosing and treating positive cats, usually, and  some can also 
treat 
cancers.
 
Michelle  
 
In a message dated 1/15/2007 9:16:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

We found out Dec. 29th that  our 4 year old cat, Toby is felv positive. We 
had been treating him for a  bladder infec. And asked my vet to do a felv test. 
He started feeling better  while being medicated. Eating and drinking and 
using the litter box. Coming  out to say hi and get some petting.
 
 As of yesterday he  started sliding back. Not eating or drinking, walking 
wobbly and hiding and no  peeing or pooping. We went back to the vetmore 
blood work and xrays this  time. Blood work is good, xrays showed an area of a 
swollen intestine. Vet  thinks excess lymphatic cells are accumulating there. 
Toby is staying in the  hospital where he will get some more antibiotics and 
start steroids. Tomorrow  more xrays.
 
 I have had cats that  have lived 17 and 18 years.This is the first cat I 
have had the is felv  positive. I don't know what to do, where to go for info. 
Especially anything  like lymphatic cells in the intestines.is this a 
death sentence  ?
 
Thankyou for any help/info  you can give me
Anna

Re: URI question

 
the dox is a bit over one year expired and is pills. The zithromax is a  
liquid and I have had it for 1.5 years but it does not have an expiration date  
on 
it.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/15/2007 9:43:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

At 05:32  PM 1/15/2007, you wrote:

Expired for how longPills or liquid. I  will use pills and capsules for 
almost a year after expiration dates,Don't  tell anyone though, It is the 
nurse thing in me and most pharmacists can't say  it is ok but they tell me it 
is,
liquids,,,no ,
I have a friend that  swears by Zithromax,,,I will forward you a site where 
to get these things  without an Rx.I will get the Zithromax dosage from her 
and forward it  on.
_http://www.1drugstore-online.com/showprice.asp?Page=2name=Bsname=bptype=Br
andbysearch_ 
(http://www.1drugstore-online.com/showprice.asp?Page=2name=Bsname=bptype=Brandbysearch)
   =
Kelly

Re: URI question

Does anyone know the dosing for clavamox? I had it left over from it being  
prescribed for Lucy a couple of months ago (had to stop it because of her ibd)  
so am giving it to Patches. But Lucy is 8 pounds and Patches is over 11 
pounds.  I sort of remember Patches being prescribed more than one pill at a 
time a 
 couple years ago, but she was over 12 pounds then and I am not positive it 
was  clavamox. If anyone knows the dosage per pound, please let me know. Maybe 
I am  not giving her enough. 
 
Thanks,
Michelle

urgent-- fever advice needed

I got home and Lucy felt warm. I took her temp about 20 minutes ago and it  
was 105.7.  I gave her doxicycline (she has been on amoxi) and fluids (150  ml) 
and put some ice under her paws. I took her temp again and it was  105.6.  I 
am trying to figure out whether to take her to the ER or  not.  At what point 
do fevers get dangerous? Should I take her? 
 
Thanks,
Michelle

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

I just took her temp again and it is down from 105.7 to 105.3  in  about half 
an hour. I also just gave her 1/4 baby aspirin.  I have been  prepared to 
take her to the ER, waiting for Gray to get home from work to go  with me (he 
is 
on way). Now that it is going down some on its own and fluids  probably have 
not really started absorbing, do you think I can wait and monitor  and see if 
it keeps going down?  Or do you think that I should go  immediately, still?
 
thanks,
Michelle

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

 
I took her temp again and it is down to 105.0 (was 105.7, then 105.3) and  
she fought me this time, then ate some of her raw food afterwards (I brought it 
 
to her, she still is just laying curled up).  At this point I am going to  
wait a half hour and take it again and see if it is down more.  Over 105 is  
dangerous according to info I found on the internet, and below 104.5 can wait  
for a regular vet appointment. If it goes down below 104.5 in the next hour or  
so I think I will wait and take her to the regular vet tomorrow (monitoring 
her  temp through the night of course). If it doesn't I will take her to the 
ER. 
The  ER is 45 minutes away, though, and they always insist on keeping them 
overnight,  and she gets really stressed.  I think the plusses of going to the 
ER are  1) they can do IV fluids which are faster than sub-q, and 2) they can 
give a dex  shot, which can help bring it down fast. Everything else they would 
do I am  doing, and the sub q fluids should start absorbing.  Thank you 
everyone for  advice, and please offer more if you have it-- and tell me if you 
think I am  doing the wrong thing, please.  I am totally stressed out right 
now.  
 I am glad I did not take her to the ER right away because 1) I would still 
be in  the car and her fever would not be being treated and probably would not 
have  come down, 2) stress can actually increase fever in a cat, and 3) I am 
way to  stressed and fatigued to drive all that way at night with her screaming 
next to  me without risking an accident.  At least if her fever is not down 
in an  hour or so Gray should be home and can drive us.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/16/2007 7:26:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Michelle – I say wait  – there really isn’t anything they can do to cure the 
problem – give some time  as it often times goes down.. keep her cool --- but 
wait you don’t want to  stress her too much ..

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

 
I gave her fluids about an hour ago and assume that is part of what is  
bringing it down.  I also have had an ice pack under her (she is on a  sleeping 
bag 
and I have it under the sleeping bag under her) for the last hour  or so.  I 
have not tried the alcohol yet.
 
How is calici treated?  
 
In a message dated 1/16/2007 8:10:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Do you have a home sub-q fluids set  up? If so, some cool fluids might help 
bring it down more. You can also wipe  the foot pads with rubbing alcohol and 
blow on them, the evaporation lowers  the body temperature (rinse them well 
with cold water after you're done, as  the alcohol shouldn't be ingested). If 
you 
have a soft ice pack, you can lay  it under her body. 
 
Personally, since she's been ill with  URI, I would take her in tonight. They 
could put her on IV fluids, which  should help both her fever and her nasal 
discharge (more fluids thins the  secretions and eases congestion). Lemme 
see... high fever plus UR symptoms,  plus eye discharge that would lean 
towards 
Herpes or Calici, the high  fever eliminates just about everything 
uncommon. Did you look in her mouth  for ulcers?

Phaewryn

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

Her fever is now down to 104.5, and I realized that the ice was not cold  
through the sleeping bag so moved it above the sleeping bag next to her wrapped 
 
in a t-shirt. She ate more and seems more alert.  I am actually surprised  how 
alert she is given that her temp is still so high, though she is still  
laying in the same spot and has not moved other than to sit in a sphinx 
position  
from curled up (not a sick cat position, it's a normal position).  She  purred 
when I pet her, and when I moved the ice closer to her.  I am still  a stress 
basket, but am going to retemp her in an hour and see if it is still  going 
down steadily.  I called the ER and they said to do that and if it  stops going 
down to bring her in.
 
Michelle

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

 
Thanks. I don't want to stress her by looking in her mouth right now (am  
already taking temps hourly, has been half hourly), but she has not had any  
discomfort eating so I don't think she has oral ulcers. I hope not,  anyway!
 
She is having a slightly odd other symptom, though, and I can't find  
anything about it online.  Her pupils seem to be dilating and contracting  ever 
so 
slightly with each breath or heart beat, I can't tell which.  Gray  noticed it; 
it is so slight that I am not sure I would have noticed if he had  not pointed 
it out.  We can't get the other cats to hold our gaze long  enough to tell if 
theirs do it, but we don't think so.  She is not acting  like her eyes are 
bothering her. Any ideas?
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/16/2007 9:18:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Usually just by antibiotics to kill  secondary bacterial infections and any 
number of things for the oral ulcers...  it's the lesser of the two main causes 
of URI. It usually doesn't have  life-long respiratory effects like Herpes 
often does. Like I said, if you can  get the Feline Interferon OMEGA 
(Virbagen), 
that's ideal, and it's been shown  to resolve Stomatitis and Calici oral 
ulcers completely. The worst part of the  calici is the oral ulcers, it's 
basically just like stomatitis, often the  diagnosis is confused between the 
two. If 
all cats that had Stomatitis were  DNA tested for calici, it's thought that 
upwards of 85% would be Calici  positive. I'd go so far as to say, Calici is 
the 
#2 cause of Stomatitis,  behind FIV (though a majority of FIV related 
Stomatitis may also be due to  Calici, no studies done there yet, I don't 
believe).
 
I'd add some extra Vitamin A into her  diet, if her digestive system can 
handle it. It can't hurt  anything.
 
I have those FIV/Stomatitis Interferon  Omega studies, if you're interested:
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=99lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=99lang=eng)  (slow 
 
loading)
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=189lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=189lang=eng)  
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=96lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=96lang=eng) 
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=97lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=97lang=eng) 
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=93lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=93lang=eng) 
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=141lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=141lang=eng) 
 
Here's one about Calici:
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=188lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=188lang=eng)  
 
Here's one that's very promising, an  elderly cat with FIV and Uvetis 
(doesn't someone here have a cat fighting  uvetis?):
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=140lang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/aff_abstract.php?id=140lang=eng)  
 
Here's the index of all Omega  studies:
_http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/reports.php?site=interferonlang=eng_ 
(http://vetinterferon.nexenservices.com/reports.php?site=interferonlang=eng) 
 
(it's even cured a case of WET  FIP!)

Phaewryn

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

Well, her temp just read 102.5, and she ate more and is rubbing her head  
against me and purring, got up and used the litter box. her nose is cold an 
wet,  
and one ear has cooled down to normal, but the other ear, oddly enough, is 
still  very hot.  not sure what is going on, but am relieved she is improving,  
knock on wood.
 
Thanks for all your support,
Michelle

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

Thanks, Phaerwyn. That sounds scary. I am not sure what to think. It is not
very exaggerated, but it does seem to happen with her pulse.

In a message dated 1/16/2007 10:34:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Rhythmic pupil dilation is called hippus, and everyone that has an eye has
it to an extent. The are conditions where it's off balance or too fast or too
slow... here's what I found online:

A good understanding of what affects pupil size is important in those
unusual cases. First, the pupil is not a thing. It is an empty hole in the
center of the iris. The iris, which forms the pupil, consists of a layer of
cells
containing the pigment melanin, which blocks the light, and two sets of
muscles. A ring shaped muscle called the sphincter closes the pupil, and a
radial
set of muscle fibers called the dilator opens it. Primary input to the
sphincter is from the parasympathetic (relaxing) branch of the autonomic
nervous
system, whereas the dilator is controlled by the sympathetic branch
(fighting). Pupil size is primarily

determined by the balance between actions of the two branches of the
autonomic nervous system.

The most important factor that affects pupil size is light. When light is
detected by the photoreceptors in the eyes, information is sent via the optic
nerve and tract to nuclei in the mid-brain and then on to the Edinger-Wesphal
nucleus. Signals to the dilator and sphincter muscles are generated as a
result to activity in this nucleus, but other sources of neural innervation
beyond those produced by light can also alter activity in this nucleus.
Because the coordination required to keep the two systems in balance is not
perfect, the pupil is in a constant state of unrest. This is called hippus or
_pupillary athetosis_
(http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands.jspzQzpgzEzzSzppdocszSzuszSzcommonzSzdorlandszSzdorlandzSzdmd_a_70zPzhtm#1216690
9) . Normal hippus is difficult to detect, but exaggerated hippus can result
from various pathological states including drug intoxication. It is well
known that cocaine affects the sympathetic nervous system and causes dilation,
whereas the narcotic analgesics affect the parasympathetic system and cause
constriction.
Rhythmic pupillary dilation coincident with the pulse suggests aortic
insufficiency (Landolfi's sign).

LANDOLFI'S SIGN: in aortic regurgitation, systolic contraction and diastolic
dilation of the pupil

The only reference to hippus in felines I could find is that it's often a
result of epilepsy and seizure... and high fevers can cause seizure...

Phaewryn

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

Phaerwyn, given what you found about rhythmic pupil dilation, do you think  I 
should be worried about that? If her fever is down in the morning do you 
think  I should take her in to the vet to check that out?

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

 
Thanks everyone.  I think I did not have the thermometer in far enough  the 
last time, because her temp is now 103.6, and she seems better not worse, so  I 
think the lower reading was wrong. But she is acting almost normal now. ate a 
 lot, came to lay with me, purring etc.  Sorry for all the emails. I  
appreciate the support and advice.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/16/2007 11:53:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

eyelid (she should close her eye as your thumb approaches. If light  pressure 
gets a pain response

Re: felv cat.........

 
I am the one who posted it, if there are any questions. I would try chemo  
first and only do this if the cat comes out of remission (after trying rescue  
chemo drugs that can spur second remissions, like ccnu) or if the cat does not  
go into remission.  But if chemo is not an option for one reason or  another, 
I would then try this right away.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/17/2007 12:01:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the DD cocktail could  make him more comfortable. A list member here 
suggested this a long time ago,  so just wanted to say that... I take no 
credit for this, I'm just re-posting  her comments [slightly edited for clarity]

Dexamethasone  Depomedrol Lymphoma Cocktail:



I have had several positives who got lymphoma. If you do stop the chemo at 
any point 
[or opt not to do chemo], rather than the natural [death] route, I would 
suggest doing 
combination shots of dexamethasone and depomedrol (1/2 cc each, as often as 
needed 
but can last up to a few weeks).  The steroids are effective at shrinking 
lymphoma 
and make the cats feel really good physically and emotionally, and they 
usually do not 
have any short-term side effects.  I have had cats who seemed on their death 
beds, not 
eating or drinking and hardly moving, who got up and ate within an hour of 
getting one 
of these shots.  Others on this list [EMAIL PROTECTED] have had 
the same 
experience. It is not a conventional treatment for lymphoma, but I learned it 
from a 
vet whose practice uses these shots for all terminally ill cats, and she 
swears by 
them and says she has seen cats go months on these shots alone with lymphoma, 
feeling 
good.  I would not do it instead of chemo, but if you need to stop the chemo 
for any 
reason.  I convinced my cat's oncologist to try it, after he was at first 
resistant, 
and he was shocked at how effective it was.

 

It's generally 1/2 cc dexamethasone mixed with 1/2 cc depomedrol.  
Normal dosage for each independently is a whole cc.  

Phaewryn

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

2007-01-17 Thread Lernermichelle

Lucy's temp was normal this morning (101.6) but is now back up to 104.2 and  
climbing, even though I gave her fluids over an hour ago when it was  103.6.  
I am bringing her to the vet at 5 for an IV I-R shot. she is eating  and 
grooming, but lethargic.  I asked the vet about using dex and he said  he wants 
me 
to up her pred a little instead. not sure why.
Michelle

Re: urgent-- fever advice needed

2007-01-17 Thread Lernermichelle

 
I was taking them so frequently last night because it was so high and the  ER 
told me that if it stopped going down at any point I needed to bring her in.  
I've taken it a total of 3 times since last night, once this am and twice 
this  afternoon.  I will not take it again for a few hours. Thanks for the 4 
hour 
 guideline.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/17/2007 12:30:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

At 09:21  PM 1/16/2007, you wrote:

Be nice...give her a break from temps. We only  take patients temps every 4 
hours at the most. 
Look at the kitty...not the  numbers.. Sort of like we say at work, Look at 
the patient not the  machines,
So glad she is feeling better, Eating is a much better  indication,
Kelly

Prayers needed for Lucy-- very serious

2007-01-17 Thread Lernermichelle

Lucy's temp spiked to 106.7 tonight so I took her to the ER. They did blood  
work and her HCt is at 18 and her bun and liver enzymes are low. They took 
xrays  and it looked to them (ER doctors, who I don't really trust to read 
xrays  
totally correctly) like she has fluid in her abdomen and an enlarged heart. 
They  tapped the fluid and could not tell what it is. With IV fluids and some  
torbutrol her temp came down to 100.6 in two hours. I then took her home,  
against their advice, because they did not seem to think they could do anything 
 
and she was miserable there. I have an appointment for 7:30 am at Red Bank, 
the  best vet hospital in the state, with an oncologist. It is 2 hours away, so 
we  need to leave at 5:30 am. Lucy hates car rides, but I want a better 
diagnosis,  and I want it from the best people.  Except for the fact that she 
is 
still  eating (probably not normally, but not completely terribly either) and 
alert,  and her protein ratio which does not point to FIP, her clinical signs 
and 
blood  work otherwise could mean wet FIP. The ER vet thinks it's lymphoma.  
She  was trying to convince me that FeLV+ cats dont respond to chemo, even 
though I  told her I had one who did and know others with cats who have.  It is 
 
possible it is FIP, it is possible that it is lymphoma so bad that nothing can  
be done or that she has heart problems that will complicate chemo and I can't 
do  it.  But I want to try, at least, to get a better diagnosis before 
deciding  all of this.  She is happy to be home for now.  She ate a little bit  
of 
cooked turkey, probably 10 or 15 little pieces. 
 
Please pray hard for her.  It does not look good. I hope she can at  least 
have some good time left. she is my baby, more than any of the others,  though 
I 
love them too. she is my love.
 
Michelle

Re: Prayers needed for Lucy-- very serious

The oncologist and internist can not figure out what is wrong with her. The  
things that can cause abdominal fluids are lymphoma, FIP, a ruptured 
intestine,  pancreatitis, and other infection.  She has some symptoms of each, 
but not  
enough of any of them to make it seem like the diagnosis. They did ultrasound 
 and biopsy, looked at the fluid again, and could not come up with anything. 
They  sent out cytology of fluid and biopsy of lymph nodes and sent us home 
with  her.  Upon getting home, she looks much worse. She does not want to eat  
except for a few pieces of EVo dry food, and I am afraid to give her more of it 
 due to her IBD.  She is kind of hunched up and looks nauseous and out of  
it. She lets me pet her and purrs, but really looks awful. She did not look 
this 
 way before I took her to the hospital, or even while so feverish last  
night.  The oncologist had said that if her clinical signs get worse, e.g.  she 
stops eating, to bring her back and admit her for more tests. I am so loathe  
to 
do that, especially today right from getting home.  I am going to give  her a 
few hours and see if she gets any better. I would feel better if she would  
just curl up and sleep, but she doesn't.  I offered her her turkey and she  
looked like she was going to be sick from smelling it. She was also a little  
wobbly coming up the stairs.  We thought maybe they had tranquilized her to  
get 
the biopsy but they said no. She has not really eaten now since last night  (I 
withheld food this morning so don't know if she would have eaten or  not).
 
Any thoughts appreciated, and prayers definitely appreciated.  Very  
exhausted and worried and sad here.
 
Michelle

Re: Prayers needed for Lucy-- very serious

 
I think they did not want to give her dex because there is the possibility  
that she is fighting some kind of bad infection, and dex is contraindicated for 
 that. Or that she has some kind of ulceration in her intestines, which dex 
is  also contraindicated for. I asked for it, believe me.  I am a huge  
proponent of using it.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/18/2007 10:16:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Michelle,
I am sorry to hear Lucy isn't doing so well yet..I don't know why they  won't 
give you some dex or give her a dex injection..I know it works the  fastest 
to reduce the temp..It is almost standard procedure from any vet I  have used 
for dogs or cats here..It also hits any inflammation that might be  going on 
more rapidly, too..at least until you can get a firm diagnosis, it  always 
helps. Bandy's temp never would go down much with an incease in  pred. Anyway,  
I 
hope you get the answers at the specialist.. We  will pray than it isn't wet 
fip or lymphoma.  
You two are in our thoughts and prayers,
Kerry, Angel Bandy and Inky

Re: Prayers needed for Lucy-- very serious

 
I want to also. She is curled up sleeping now, but her back legs seemed  very 
unsteady when she stood up to change position, and it seemed like she kind  
of collapsed back onto the towel. Apparently paresis, or rear leg paralysis, 
can  be a neurological sign of FIP, so this is scaring me. Of course, she is 
also  anemic and was through something very rough today, so maybe she is just  
super-exhausted.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/18/2007 2:37:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

That is  my first impulse too.  Give her time to recover from her ordeal, 
the  car ride, the fevers, the testing, all of those things by themselves 
are  enough to exhaust her.  You are there, you know best, but my first  
thought is to give her time to regain her  strength.
Nina

urgent-- anyone have feline interferon (omega)??

Lucy may have FIP, in which case her only hope, small in that, is feline  
interferon. From my past experience, it can take a few months to get via FDA  
dispensation. Does anyone have some I could buy and then try to replace?? When 
I  
had it, I send some to someone else on this list...
 
Michelle

Re: urgent-- anyone have feline interferon (omega)??

 
I don't actually have all the numbers. According to the oncologist, her  
liver enzymes were actually not that low-- he does not think she has a liver  
problem.  The fluid is clear and thin, not yellow or tacky like most FIP  
fluid. 
This is why everyone is so confused.  She may have something else,  but 
whatever it is is not good. I figure the VO can't hurt and could help some  of 
the 
problems it could be.
 
In a message dated 1/18/2007 4:47:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Michelle – please do  me a favor and send me her blood work result right way –
 I want to take a look  at it – kitty with liver problem could have fluid in 
abdomen ( my Gurfunkle  did) – I just don’t thinks she has FIP for some 
reason – was fluid in straw  color – I could get additional FOI for you as I 
just 
ordered it today – let me  know ASAP!

Lucy--what to do?

Red Bank called to say that now I do not have a return appointment for  
tomorrow, that the cytology reports won't be back until tomorrow, and that I  
will 
get a call tomorrow morning after the oncologist and internist look at the  
reports, with a plan.  Meanwhile, this morning Lucy is not eating at  all.  I 
syringed her a little food, but am concerned at the worsening of  symptoms. Her 
back end seems ok now, but she is drinking more.  her fever  went down last 
night with fluids and ice packs, but she is warm again-- but  can't tell if 
this 
is because she is lying in the sun (her choice).  She  can walk to litter box 
and jump up on 1 foot tall cardboard box without  problems. Her pads and gums 
are still a little pink, though light pink.
 
Thanks to Hideyo, I now have feline interferon and epogen.  The  oncologist 
is insisting that I not start her on anything until they look at all  the test 
results. If she has an infection or heart disease, steroids could be  harmful. 
If her blood cells are regenerating but then dying, epogen won't help  and 
she could have a reaction.  I have not heard back on any particular  reason not 
to start the feline interferon.  
 
Do you think I should start her on something, against the advice of the  
oncologist and internist? I generally trust specialists, but it seems clear she 
 
is going down hill and days are passing. Plus, a friend's dog had neurological  
problems and saw specialists at a big hospital in Boston for a week before 
they  tested for lyme disease (which I had suggested immediately)-- they had 
had 
him  on steroids, then when finally saw he had lyme put him on heavy doses of 
 antibiotics and stopped the steroids, and when he got worse they put him 
back on  heavy doses of both and he pulled through. Obviously it would have 
been 
better  if a) they had tested him immediately (they had not thought the neuro 
symptoms  matched lyme) and b) absent the test if they had just loaded him up 
with both  abx and steroids.  So I am wary of specialists waiting for test 
results  that take a while before starting treatment when an animal is going  
downhill.  At the same time, I don't want to harm any possible treatment  she 
could ultimately get if they figure something out.
 
Do any of you have strong opinions or thoughts on this?  
 
Thanks,
Michelle

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
How soon did the cat feel better from epogen?
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Wow  Michelle - that is a hard one.  My gut feeling is that there is no 
reason  not to start the interferon, for sure.  I don't know anything about the 
 
kind of reactions you get with epogen, but the times I have used the cat has  
seemed to feel better.   Will be interested in seeing what the  really 
experienced folks suggest.   Good luck.  Prayers for you  and Lucy.

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
Thanks. I gave her the feline interferon about an hour ago. She seemed  
feverish, so a while later I gave her some fluids. She then ate a small handful 
 of 
dry EVO on her own. She is just laying there now. She is not grooming. She is 
 definitely worse day by day.  That said, she looked terrible last night but  
when I got up to check on her at 4 am she had gone downstairs to use the  
litterbox and then trotted over to a plastic bag and sat on it, I pet her a  
while, and then she trotted upstairs back to her box. I went back to sleep and  
at 
8 am she looked awful again.  I think her fever comes and goes. I have  
stopped temping her. When she is warm I give her fluids (not more than 150  
ml/day) 
and put ice on her, and so far she eventually cools down. I was going to  
syringe feed her raw food, but then she ate a handful (15 pieces?) of dry food  
so I held off.  I convinced my local vet to order feline interferon, and  now I 
am working on getting him to agree to acemannan.  He was skeptical  about the 
feline interferon, and seems to think Lucy's case is hopeless and I am  
grasping at straws and wasting money. But he is nice to me, and so far has  
ultimately agreed to do as I ask.  The acemannan request may put an end to  
that.
 
Michelle
 
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:04:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Dearest  Michelle,
As I wrote before, I just went through this same push/pull  anxiety with 
Spencer.  It's enough to give you a nervous breakdown.   I'm feeling your pain 
right through the computer.  I know Lucy is in bad  shape, but it does sound 
like 
she's at least comfortable for the most  part.  When you talk about worsening 
symptoms, are you referring to her  not eating?   Today is the first time she 
hasn't eaten on her own,  is that right?  Stress will put her off her food, 
perhaps she's just  regaining her strength.  The thought of her enjoying a sun 
bath is  encouraging.  She may be strong enough to wait for the experts to 
decide  a treatment protocol.  

I wish I had the answers for you  Michelle.  I'm afraid that no matter how 
much support we have from  others, it always comes down to our call when 
dealing 
with so this sort of  quandary.  All I can tell you is that after I calmed my 
spirit and  communed with Spencer, (my last experience with what you are 
going through), I  felt a little more at peace with the circumstances.  
Unfortunately,  Spencer did not have a long time left to share with me.  I 
never gave up 
 hope, but I did find a semblance of acceptance and peace.  The benefit  was 
that the time we did share was full of unconditional love, and I don't  know 
how else to put it, full of quality.  It didn't keep him with me in  the 
physical, but it allowed us to bond in an extraordinary way.  It was  an 
incredible 
gift that we shared, at a very costly price.  I'll always  be grateful to him 
for the lessons learned during that heartrending  time.

I have no idea what I would do in your place.  Missing the  pieces of the 
puzzle make it so very difficult to make these sorts of  decisions with 
conviction.  I would never take the advice of anyone over  what my own gut was 
telling 
me though.  The specialists may be well  meaning, they may even be 
sympathetic, but to them Lucy is a medical case, to  you she is your heart.  
The way I 
see it is we are responsible for  interpreting the wishes of our fur children 
and making sure that our decisions  are based on love and not fear.  You are 
the 
one that has to live with  the consequences, no matter what those 
consequences may be.  Clear your  head.  Sit quietly with her, your next move 
will come 
to you.
All my  love,
Nina

Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??

 
Thanks, Hideyo. Yes, if anyone has any acemannan-- can I please buy some  
from you??  If we use it, I don't think we can wait until February. I kind  of 
doubt Lucy will last that long without something to turn her around.
 
her gums are mostly gray, with only a few pink spots, so it is hard to  tell. 
Those spots are still somewhat pink, but it could be from inflamed gums,  as 
those spots are right over the canines.  Her paw pads are still pink,  though 
not as pink as usual. No less pink than yesterday, though. But the vet  said 
you can't always tell from gums and paw pads.  i asked the oncologist  if they 
checked her reticulite count to see if she is regenerative or not, and  he 
said that they did not and there was no point until they know if she has  
cancer, 
because if she does have lymphoma the anemia should respond to chemo  (but he 
does not think it's cancer, so why not check it so we know more if it is  
not???). He is getting annoyed at this point by my phone calls and questions 
and  
acts very curt on the phone. He is not a vet who is impressed by a client 
having  knowledge, he is a vet who is annoyed by it. My local vet is more 
willing 
to  work with me, but at this point wants to defer to the specialists because 
he  feels they know more than he does. Since Lucy does seem to have a heart 
murmer  now and enlarged heart (which they said could be from the anemia) the 
point  about epogen raising blood pressure does scare me some, and makes me 
want to try  it under a vet's watch if possible.  I have been noticing that I 
can 
see  her pulse on her neck, though it might just be because she is shaved.  
When  her fever was really high her irises in her eyes were also pulsating a 
bit,  which Phaerwyn found could be from a heart problem.  So given these 
things,  I am a little more scared about epogen now knowing about the blood 
pressure 
 issue.  Of course, if her HCT keeps going down that will kill her, and  
epogen doesn't work right away so should be started as soon as possible, which  
leaves me in a quandary. 
 
She ate a few more pieces of dry EVO. As long as she is eating a little bit  
of dry I am loathe to syringe her.  I did syringe her 3 cc's of raw food  this 
morning, probably another cc of it with her lysine pill, she ate a capful  of 
baby food, and at this point probably 20 or 30 pieces of dry EVO. About 10  
minutes ago I pet her and, for the first time in 2 days, she stood up to be pet 
 and started rubbing her face on a bag of catnip on her box. I gave her some  
catnip and she ate it and then rubbed her face in it, and then curled up and  
went to sleep. I think she feels better when her fever comes down for a 
while,  and that is when she eats a little and wants to be pet more. For the 
last 
few  days she got feverish only in the afternoon to night; now it seems on and 
off  all day.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Acemmanan might be  back ordered – I order for my dog, JoJo a month ago and it
’s not available  until February—if anyone has in their hand, please let 
Michelle know --   - do you think he will prescribe epogen?Please keep an 
eye 
 on her gum as if her PCV goes now, you might want to really pay attention to 
 that.

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
I don't know if she is comfortable. When she is feverish, she definitely  
isn't. At other times it is hard to tell if she is just weak or also nauseous 
or  
painful somewhere. The oncologist said he does not think she has any pain. 
Maybe  it is just fatigue from the anemia and the fevers. She is not very 
interested in  food. She would not eat all morning and at this point has eaten 
probably less  than a meal's worth of EVO dry. I tried liver shake and even 
fancy 
feast,  knowing the fancy feast could wreck her intestines due to her IBD. But 
she did  not want them at all. The EVO tends to bother her intestines too, but 
it is all  she will eat on her own and I hate to syringe her if I can get her 
to eat  something. I may ask Gray to go get some turkey deli slices.  Anyway, 
I  would not say she is super comfortable. But maybe she is just weak and has 
no  appetite. I have to say, I don't have any appetite at this point either.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 1:35:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

it  sounds like Lucy is comfortable

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
Her HCT was 18 when last tested night before last. They generally only  
transfuse cats if it gets down to 13 or below.  I think part of the reason  is 
the 
potential reaction to the transfusion (they can have an allergic  reaction) 
and part of the reason is a general shortage of cat blood so they wait  until 
it 
is really critical.  Simon had 3 transfusions before his chemo  kicked in and 
brought his HCT back up, but each time they would not do it until  he was 13 
or below.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 2:47:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps  I have missed something. Have they transfused her,  Severe anemia 
makes  the very weak and not eat. When my dog had autoimmune mediated anemia 
her 
 refusal to eat was the first indication,
Epogen is possible depending upon  the type of anemia, but to me getting the 
immediate improvement in crit is  basic, then the rest can follow, Maybe I am 
behind but transufing is not very  invasive and gives immediate relief and 
buys  time,
Kelly

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
What is it that you think you did in panic and regret? Knowing this may  help 
me with the decisions I am making.
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 2:51:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi Michelle,
I have to agree that Nina said it all...and she is right...Your gut will  
tell you...Spend time with her and try not to panic...I will always regret  
what 
I did with Bandy because I did panic..
So take a deep breath and it will come to you..
Kerry

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
they don't have a sample anymore. I asked them to run the reticulites from  
any blood they have, this morning, and they said they don't have any. 
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 3:19:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Can you have the run  the blood type with the existing sample – so that you 
know what it is – I did  that with Ayumi just in case she needed  transfusions.

Re: Lucy--what to do?

She just ate a bunch of little pieces of turkey deli slice, then ate a few  
more pieces of dry EVO.  Her nose was stuffy and now is runny (am using  vicks 
vaporizer and neosenephrine) so that may have made the difference. I think  
that she does have a URI on top of whatever else she has, and I had stopped the 
 
amoxi because the oncologist said no point (stupid) so I think her cold got  
worse again. I restarted amoxi and lysine this morning when I realized she was 
 stuffy again. patches has a uri too (clavamox seems to be kicking it, knock 
on  wood) so I think that, being immune suppressed and having something else  
long-term going on, she got a URI on top.
 
Michelle

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
She's on I-R.  I was giving it to her sub-q for her URI, which I  thought was 
helping, but then she spiked a fever anyway. So I brought her in to  the 
local vet on Wed and got her .25 ml IV.  Her fever spiked highest later  that 
night. If I kept her on it she would not be due for another shot until  
tomorrow.  
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 4:26:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Michelle, Do you think that immuno-regulin might help
her  fevers?  I don't know anything about what sweet
Lucy is going through  but I know with my Smokey when
he was running a fever he wouldn't  eat.  I do know
that I was having a terrible time with him  getting
fevers and the immuno-regulin seemed to have helped. 
I know  with all of her other symptoms it may not be
something she needs to be  given but it was just a
thought.  I will be praying that your sweet  Lucy
starts feeling better and you get some answers as to
what is going  on with her.

Re: Lucy--what to do?

 
No. Those fever spikes, if they happen, happen immediately after getting  it, 
last about a half hour, and then go away and don't come back.  She has  
gotten I-R in the past for URI's without getting any fever at all from it. And  
now 
she gets fevers on and off all day whether or not it is a day she gets I-R.  
So I really don't think it is the I-R. Unless something about giving it to her 
 sub-q really messed her up, but no one else has seen that. I don't think I 
am  going to keep giving it to her. She is on VO now, and I am hoping to try  
something else like acemannan if I can get it. But I think she has had a run on 
 I-R and it is not doing the trick. Her fevers may be a reaction to cancer or 
 something else systemic that does not respond to I-R. Or maybe she needs a  
higher dose of I-R, I don't know.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 4:41:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Michelle,
Isn't one of the side effects of the IR fever  spikes?  Am I thinking of 
something else?  Could her fluctuating  fever be a reaction to the IR??
Nina

Cindy-- what dose IR?

Cindy, what dose IV I-R did you give smoky? The vet in Ohio gives a whole  ml 
at a time, which is what I gave to Patches when she had pneumonia and to  
Ginger. It helped them a lot, but Ginger had a very high fever spike right  
afterwards. The company recommends .25 ml, which is what I gave Lucy each time. 
 
Did you use more than that for Smoky? And on what schedule? Did he have any  
symptoms other than fever?
 
Thanks,
Michelle

Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??

 
Craig Clifford.
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 5:30:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Michelle, which oncologist are you dealing with over  at Redbank?  Hope it's 
not the one I'm using as he has been very  patient with me.  
 
Lucy continues to be in my thoughts and  prayers,
Renee

Re: Lucy-- what to do?

 
I do have a/d and appetite stims, but she can't handle the appetite stims  
(periactin makes her a zomby and does not make her eat). Good news though-- 
Gray 
 bought her some dry i/d and she got all excited and has eaten a bunch of it  
several times. At this point I think she has had at least one meal's worth  
today, maybe more.  One time I was putting some in a bowl to offer her  more, 
and she jumped off her box and trotted over to eat it on her own.   Then the 
fever came back, though, so I have her on ice packs again.
 
I believe in dex as well. I will see what the hospital has to say tomorrow  
re: the tests they ran. Problem with steroids is not just infection, but that  
her heart is enlarged and has a murmer now, and steroids apparently can make  
that worse.  But the enlarged heart and murmer apparently could be from  
dealing with anemia over 'time, so maybe if dex helped the anemia it would help 
 
rather than hurt her heart. I don't know. Unless she has cancer, I doubt I will 
 
get any dex from the hospital-- they are very by the book. I am already 
working  on my local vet to try it with her if the hospital's test results are  
inconclusive. 
 
Kerry, do you have any dex left from bandy? I prefer dex shots, which I  
assume you don't have, but if my local vet won't give me shots, maybe pills  
would 
help. 
 
And thank you for telling me (reminding me, actually, I do remember now)  
what it is you meant by panicking and things going wrong.  I know it is  hard 
to 
talk about. But it does help me. I am constantly trying to decide  whether to 
bring her in, and just don't want to. Your conviction that this is ok  gives 
me some strength to hold off.
 
Thanks,
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi Michelle,
Do you have any a/d?  Appetite stimulants?
I went into panic mode when I took him to the hospital for IV fluids and  
they had to keep him.  We had been doing sub-q's and I should have  continued 
them as he wasn't that bad off until some things went wrong while he  was 
there..Since it was over Christmas and no regular vet tech was there only  a 
kennel 
tech...who could administer meds but I don't think very well...as one  time she 
was going to give Bandy a shot and said what and how much..and I told  her 
that was too much...she really didn't seem to know...then a few other  things 
happened..It is a long story and much different situation than yours..I  know 
something went wrongvery wrong from the time I saw him on Christmas  eve 
11am until I went back again at 1pm..And I will always believe it is  something 
she did cause there was too much of a drastic change in him and his  condition 
wasn't that bad at 11am..He was sitting up purring and talking to me  and 
eating for me...
I'm sorry to go on about this, but I have been having  nightmares about it 
ever since..So I just want you to make sure to not panic  and do what you can 
for her with your knowledge and things at home where she  will feel more 
comfortable and all..I think you know what I mean.
You will know if she needs to go for more help at the vet..
I have already been through a couple of ordeals with Inky without rushing  
off to the vet..just using what I have here at home..
I still believe some dex would do her wonders...as it always did for  Bandy 
with those dreaded fevers...and you know we battled them for months and  
months..Infection or not..I have seen it do wonders..
I'll keep checking back on your guys,
Kerry, Angel Bandy and Inky

Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??

 
Well, there are two possibilities as to why he is more patient with you: 1)  
you are less annoying than I am (extremely possible), or 2) Emily actually has 
 cancer and he doesn't think Lucy does (though I am wondering if the pred she 
has  been on is masking it, as no other diagnosis fully makes sense)-- he has 
been  having to field a lot of questions not necessarily related to cancer 
because  they don't know what is wrong with her and I happened to make an aptmt 
with him  b/c the ER vet said lymphoma.  I can't call the internist because he 
is  still my listed doctor and I have not even met the internist-- she looked 
at  Lucy in back-- and now the internist is on vacation and there is a new 
one who  has not even seen her. So Dr. Clifford is it, and I am annoying him 
with  questions that may be out of his field, and which are certainly not what 
is 
used  to dealing with.  And, I saw him yesterday, called twice after I got 
home,  and called twice this morning.  so maybe that seems excessive. But 
things 
 kept changing and I had questions. Plus he kept giving us timelines that 
would  then change, so I was questioning him on this as well (he said she 
needed 
to be  seen on Sat but the receptionist called and said she didn't so I wanted 
to talk  to him about that). etc.
 
What is Emily's story? Is she FeLV+? what is she being treated for and what  
is she getting? how is she doing? If you have posted this already, I  
apologize.  I have not been able to keep up with all threads  lately.
 
Michelle
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 6:36:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Michelle, Dr. Clifford is my Emily's oncologist.  I'm  sorry that you are 
having a bad experience with him.  Can you call the  Internist rather than Dr. 
Clifford with your questions? Hopefully Lucy's fever will stop spiking and 
they will have some concrete  answers for you tomorrow morning.  
 
Renee

Re: Cindy-- what dose IR?

 
That is what is listed in the medications books, but the company material  
says .25 cc.  Maybe I should try a higher dose?
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 7:40:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



The recommended doses I see is 1/2 to 1 cc   IV is the very best route
I used 1/2 cc the first time and them I went to  2/4 cc,,,Max weight 11 
lbs...
Kelly

Re: Cindy-- what dose IR?

 
actually, I don't have the book I saw that in, and all I can show the vet  is 
the company info which says .25 so he did not want to do more.  Can you  send 
me info or a link or a citation to where it says 1/2 to 1?
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 7:40:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The recommended doses I see is 1/2 to 1 cc  IV is the very best  route
I used 1/2 cc the first time and them I went to 2/4 cc,,,Max  weight 11 
lbs...
Kelly

question about IBD and anemia

So I have this new theory that maybe Lucy's symptoms result from IBD and a  
URI.  I read in Merck vet manual (I think-- it is written for vets so  
technical and hard to understand) that IBD can cause anemia and fluid 
distension  in 
the stomach.  Anemia can cause heart murmer and enlargement (her  enlargement 
is slight). And URI's can certainly cause fevers and congested nose,  which she 
has (and patches has URI as well).  What doesn't really make  sense is that 
her IBD symptoms have been controlled by diet, pred, and flagyl  for some time. 
But the ultrasound did show thickened intestines, so her IBD is  certainly 
still there. If this is the case, it would explain why no other  diagnosis is 
making any sense. any thoughts? Have any of you heard of IBD  causing anemia 
and/or fluid in belly?
 
thanks,
Michelle

Re: Lucy--what to do?-- anyone have acemannan??

 
Oh, I have read most of the posts about Emily.  I forgot--  sorry.  I am glad 
she is doing well.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 9:00:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

As for Emily, she has mammary gland cancer.  She had two surgeries  and she 
is getting chemo now.  She is not FELV positive nor are any of my  other cats.  
I'm here because of Phaewryn. When she found out  about Emily's cancer she 
posted here to see if anyone had any experience with  that kind of cancer.  I 
have been quietly lurking, more or less,  ever since.  
 
Renee

Re: question about IBD and anemia