subject:"Re\: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond \- Issues"

> Do I have to go through the entire workflow for each clone, or can I
> quickly create multiple clones?

You have to go through an entire deployment operation to clone a software 
instance.  If you're deploying the same source software again you can Copy 
an already completed Deployment which is better than using a Model 
software instance to initialize the deployment configuration.  I think the 
process is pretty quick, but I don't know your definition of "quickly".

Try it out and let us know if you think its quick or not.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> We were able to merge datasets when we used CustomPac Installation 
> Dialog to install ServerPac like the below merged dataset display. 
> Can we still do that through z/OSMF software Management? Thanks.

No, not at the moment, but we are actively developing a merge data set 
capability for the deployment action, so stay tuned.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management 
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-29 Thread Seymour J Metz

Do I have to go through the entire workflow for each clone, or can I quickly 
create multiple clones?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush [ku...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 2:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> Does the z/OSMF workflow support the following methodology:

To clarify terminology I'll rephrase your question to what I think you
meant to ask:
Does z/OSMF Software Management, and the z/OSMF workflows supplied with
the IBM ServerPac portable software instance, support the following
methodology?

>  1. There are multiple clones for each release, each with its own
> SMP and zFS datasets

Yes.

>  2. The naming convention for dlib and target volumes encapsulate a
> release and a clone within the release

Yes, the volume names can be whatever you choose.

>  3. The naming convention for SMP and zFS datasets encapsulate a
> release and a clone within the release

Yes, the data set names can be whatever you choose.

>  4. All parameter members use static system symbols to refer to
> residence volumes and zFS datasets.

Hmmm... this I don't know.  I don't know the details of the PARMLIB
members constructed by the workflows supplied with the ServerPac.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-29 Thread Chen, Ya-Fang

Kurt,

We were able to merge datasets when we used CustomPac Installation Dialog to 
install ServerPac like the below merged dataset display. 
Can we still do that through z/OSMF software Management? Thanks.


Merge Component Data Sets for:
 ISP.SISPPENU  
 S   Data Set Name 
 -   --
   * ISP.SISPPENU  
 AOP.SAOPPENU  
 FFST.V120ESA.SEPWPENU 
 GDDM.SADMPNL  
 GIM.SGIMPENU  
 ICQ.ICQPLIB
 ISF.SISFPLIB   
 SYS1.DFQPLIB   
 SYS1.DGTPLIB   
 SYS1.HRFPANL   
 SYS1.SBDTPNL0  
 SYS1.SBLSPNL0  
 SYS1.SBPXPENU  
 SYS1.SEDGPENU  
 SYS1.SERBPENU  
 SYS1.SIATPNL0  
 TCPIP.SEZAPENU


Regards,
Ya-Fang


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 1:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> Does the z/OSMF workflow support the following methodology:

To clarify terminology I'll rephrase your question to what I think you meant to 
ask:
Does z/OSMF Software Management, and the z/OSMF workflows supplied with the IBM 
ServerPac portable software instance, support the following methodology?

>  1. There are multiple clones for each release, each with its own SMP 
> and zFS datasets

Yes.

>  2. The naming convention for dlib and target volumes encapsulate a 
> release and a clone within the release

Yes, the volume names can be whatever you choose.

>  3. The naming convention for SMP and zFS datasets encapsulate a 
> release and a clone within the release

Yes, the data set names can be whatever you choose.

>  4. All parameter members use static system symbols to refer to 
> residence volumes and zFS datasets.

Hmmm... this I don't know.  I don't know the details of the PARMLIB members 
constructed by the workflows supplied with the ServerPac.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management Chuck Norris 
never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> Does the z/OSMF workflow support the following methodology:

To clarify terminology I'll rephrase your question to what I think you 
meant to ask:
Does z/OSMF Software Management, and the z/OSMF workflows supplied with 
the IBM ServerPac portable software instance, support the following 
methodology?

>  1. There are multiple clones for each release, each with its own 
> SMP and zFS datasets

Yes.

>  2. The naming convention for dlib and target volumes encapsulate a 
> release and a clone within the release

Yes, the volume names can be whatever you choose.

>  3. The naming convention for SMP and zFS datasets encapsulate a 
> release and a clone within the release

Yes, the data set names can be whatever you choose.

>  4. All parameter members use static system symbols to refer to 
> residence volumes and zFS datasets.

Hmmm... this I don't know.  I don't know the details of the PARMLIB 
members constructed by the workflows supplied with the ServerPac.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-29 Thread Seymour J Metz

Does the z/OSMF workflow support the following methodology:

 1. There are multiple clones for each release, each with its own SMP and zFS 
datasets
 2. The naming convention for dlib and target volumes encapsulate a release and 
a clone within the release
 3. The naming convention for SMP and zFS datasets encapsulate a release and a 
clone within the release
 4. All parameter members use static system symbols to refer to residence 
volumes and zFS datasets.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Marna WALLE [mwa...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 10:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

Hi all,
Thanks for all the great feedback!  This has been a good conversation to follow 
the past couple of days. We do appreciate it!

>From the conversation, I see those here are on the "minimum  installation 
>path" that want to:
1.  Use an existing prior configuration to save time when installing a new z/OS 
release. With *absolute minimum* manual renaming or data sets or volume name 
changes.
2.  Use an existing master catalog
3.  Mostly indirectly catalog
4.  Use "non-IPLable" data set names, so that existing deployment tools can be 
used.
5.  Run the minimum amount of jobs.  So that they can immediately lay down 
installed target, dlibs, and SMP/E data sets (and reluctantly, have to take 
some CPAC data sets) *only*, and move on by themselves.
6.  Want to be able to see all the JCL before it is run.
(7.  Want to be able to use multi-level aliasing.)

I think I've captured all the *major* points necessary to get a z/OS system 
laid down in a couple of  hours, with multi-level aliasing perhaps not being 
something used by all the contributers.  I do understand there are some other 
niceties, but I generally think I've got the list above what was discussed to 
pull down an order and get it on DASD quickly.

For doing the installation path above, z/OSMF *does* have that functionality 
today - except for the multi-level aliases. I'm not certain that multi-level 
aliases is critical, but I understand that doing it would be helpful to those 
that have used them for a long time, and want to continue with them.  Yes, the 
functions may not have been "found" immediately while trying out the new 
interface.  Especially when extremely familiar with the CustomPac interface.

What I'd like to understand:  for those that are on that "minimum installation 
path" above and have done their first z/OS portable software instance install, 
after you've gotten the information here (from Kurt, thanks!!), do you think 
you can lay down that z/OS release again using z/OSMF in a couple of hours?  
Keep in mind, you'd be using z/OSMF's Model After capability, selecting 
"existing master catalog",  data set configuration filtering and mass changes 
on data set and volume names, and system symbols with volume association.

-Marna WALLE
z/OS System Install and Upgrade
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-29 Thread Marna WALLE

Hi Keith,
Thanks for sharing!  

I did notice your comment: "I re-ordered the Serverpac because the first order 
had two target zones (I had assumed that this was because I had accidentally 
ordered 2 releases of the same product - node.js IIRC - but it turned out to be 
because I received ISPF-case and upper case panels)."

For z/OS V2.5, you really should have received only one target zone unless you 
ordered JES3.  JES3 will be put in its own target zone if you order it, and 
JES2 will be in the "base" target zone so that there is no merging of zones 
necessary like there was in the CustomPac Dialog.  We did it that way in 
preparation for the next release in which there will be no IBM JES3.  I suspect 
that if you had two target zones, you had JES3 by itself in one of them. 

You mention upper case...interesting.  We put upper case support into the 
Japanese language feature, so unless you ordered Japanese, I would not have 
expected you to have those FMIDs.  But, even more interesting, all the Japanese 
and upper case English support would have been in the base target zone.   I 
can't speak about any of the additional program products you ordered (like 
node), but I strongly suspect that they would not have been in their own zone 
as we like to put those all together.

-Marna WALLE
z/OS System Installation and Upgrade
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> Not having seen the zOSMF method, 

Since you have not actually seen it yet, please allow me to clarify a few 
points.

> ... I know serverpac full
> system replacement needs a usercat (that would become the master cat
> if you wanted to replace that and IPL the new system) for allocating
> and restoring the 'collisions' (all allocated data sets in lnklst 
> and the logon proc). 

Creating a new user catalog (that could become a new master catalog) is an 
option in z/OSMF.  It is not required.

> Both zOSMF and serverpac go and set the SSA 
> into that usercat, I think. What I don't understand is why my 2.5 
> serverpac wants to cement the SSA in the DDDefs. I deleted all of 
> that before running the UP job. But then with serverpac, I get 
> to see the jobs before submitting them. zOSMF might do it the same 
> way and I think that is where Terri has the problem with the aliases
> she keeps mentioning.
> And I didn't understand why the SSA should get cemented in the dddefs, 
anyway.

In z/OSMF, if you choose to create a new user catalog (that could become a 
new master catalog), then z/OSMF automatically adds a temporary catalog 
alias (aka SSA) to connect the new user catalog with the existing master 
catalog.  This temporary catalog alias prefix is added to the data set 
names in the DDDEF entries.  This is done so z/OSMF and SMP/E can find the 
data sets through normal catalog search no matter on which system z/OSMF 
and SMP/E are running on.  That is, while running on either the driving 
system using the existing master catalog or on the new target system once 
IPLed using the new master catalog.  But again, if you don't want to 
create a new user catalog (to become a new master catalog), then you 
shouldn't choose that option, and no temporary catalog aliases will get 
created or added to the data set names.

And by the way, z/OSMF does allow you to see the JCL before submitting.

> What I found really annoying in my serverpac was that I was asked 
> for the jobclass for sysout data sets, dutifully specified an 
> asterisk (take the one from the jobcard) and then got generated 
> statements like this: SYSPRINT DD *. It took me a while to 
> understand why I had gotten either abend001 or abend04c and had no 
> sysprint to look for the reason.

I'm confused.  ServerPac is available now in two forms; the old-school 
CustomPac Installation Dialog, or z/OSMF portable software instance.  Is 
this a comment on the workflows supplied with the z/OSMF portable software 
instance, or with the CustomPac Installation Dialog?

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management 
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-29 Thread Shaffer, Terri

Hi Marna,
  I think you have captured everything.

Like I have stated.  I don’t like things done , that I cant see whats being 
done in the background, because if there is ever an issue, I would have no idea 
where it failed.  Or I can change JCL to fix.  Because Some IBM messages are 
vague..

Also again a learning curve, But if I am presented 3 options, new mcat, reuse 
old, etc.

It would be nice to understands what each does or expects.

In the 25+ years I have dealt with serverpac I have only did one build of a new 
MCAT because it had lots of garbage from old times past.

Now I just expect the SSA to be added to the beginning, if I am pointing to 
REUSE MCAT, OR added as an alias if I am pointing or going to use a NEW MCAT.

Since you perform a ton of validations and lookups this should be easy to do.  
In the serverpac, like others have stated, I run probably 5-6 jobs total and I 
am done with the serverpac dialogs.   This is the issue with you verifying 
everything in the background.  It might only be a temporary condition that will 
be solved later by me.

 Otherwise its not horrible as expected, once you get past the whole z/OSMF 
setup issues.  But still nuances that would make thing better usability

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Marna WALLE
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 10:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

External Email


Hi all,
Thanks for all the great feedback!  This has been a good conversation to follow 
the past couple of days. We do appreciate it!

From the conversation, I see those here are on the "minimum  installation path" 
that want to:
1.  Use an existing prior configuration to save time when installing a new z/OS 
release. With *absolute minimum* manual renaming or data sets or volume name 
changes.
2.  Use an existing master catalog
3.  Mostly indirectly catalog
4.  Use "non-IPLable" data set names, so that existing deployment tools can be 
used.
5.  Run the minimum amount of jobs.  So that they can immediately lay down 
installed target, dlibs, and SMP/E data sets (and reluctantly, have to take 
some CPAC data sets) *only*, and move on by themselves.
6.  Want to be able to see all the JCL before it is run.
(7.  Want to be able to use multi-level aliasing.)

I think I've captured all the *major* points necessary to get a z/OS system 
laid down in a couple of  hours, with multi-level aliasing perhaps not being 
something used by all the contributers.  I do understand there are some other 
niceties, but I generally think I've got the list above what was discussed to 
pull down an order and get it on DASD quickly.

For doing the installation path above, z/OSMF *does* have that functionality 
today - except for the multi-level aliases. I'm not certain that multi-level 
aliases is critical, but I understand that doing it would be helpful to those 
that have used them for a long time, and want to continue with them.  Yes, the 
functions may not have been "found" immediately while trying out the new 
interface.  Especially when extremely familiar with the CustomPac interface.

What I'd like to understand:  for those that are on that "minimum installation 
path" above and have done their first z/OS portable software instance install, 
after you've gotten the information here (from Kurt, thanks!!), do you think 
you can lay down that z/OS release again using z/OSMF in a couple of hours?  
Keep in mind, you'd be using z/OSMF's Model After capability, selecting 
"existing master catalog",  data set configuration filtering and mass changes 
on data set and volume names, and system symbols with volume association.

-Marna WALLE
z/OS System Install and Upgrade
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-29 Thread Marna WALLE

HI Barbara,

==>  I did a 'save as' in the browser and saved the html pages to my laptop. I 
expected the content to be on my laptop, but it wasn't. When I opened the html 
pages using notepad, there was some small crap in it that was way too small to 
be the information I had seen online. I actually had to go back and search for 
the link again, save that to my bookmarks and  read online. When I skipped a 
few chapters, it took forever to load the intended content. It felt like that 
content had a lot of external links in it that would explain why it was so slow.

Ugh...this is because of IBM Documentation.  It was supposed to give you an 
excellent HTML file of the content you were looking.  Alias, that doesn't 
happen. I've reported the problem, but do feel free to also provide feedback to 
urge the solution along faster. 

I know you don't have z/OSMF up yet, but for those that do want that nice HTML 
file, you only need the core functions of z/OSMF to get you far enough to 
create the Upgrade Workflow there, and then export it. Before you export it, 
you can tailor it nicely for your system to make it much smaller than otherwise 
it would be.  

-Marna WALLE
z/OS System Install and Upgrade
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-29 Thread Keith Gooding

Hi Maria.

Yes, I do believe that I can create the next z/os software instance very 
quickly now that we have a v2.5 instance. We use what the Serverpac dialog 
called ‘system upgrade’ , retain the existing master catalog and use indirect 
cataloging. 

In fact I was so confident that I could do this I re-ordered the Serverpac 
because the first order had two target zones (I had assumed that this was 
because I had accidentally ordered 2 releases of the same product - node.js 
IIRC - but it turned out to be because I received ISPF-case and upper case 
panels). Incidentally my shopz orders were shipped within 24 hours - it used to 
take a few days. This turned out to be a mistake because I had not actually 
finished the first install so it was not available as a model so I had to use 
the 2.4 instance. But with my experience of the first installation tailoring 
the dataset names and volumes was very quick. On reflection, using my first 2.5 
instance as a model may not have made much difference if only SMPE-managed 
datasets are modelled.
 
I much prefer z/osmf to the previous method. I never did learn all of the 
commands to edit the dataset names and volume layout. 

(Laying down the files in a couple of hours is a bit optimistic for me. I had 
to spend a lot of time freeing up disk space for the order etc and downloading 
the order and running the ‘unpack’ job took several hours. But the z/osmf 
dialogue part was quick and easy).


BTW I am the odd-ball who uses 2-level aliases for the ZFS datasets. I think 
the reason may be that when we moved to ZFS we could no longer use indirect 
cataloging for file systems so we added a second qualifier after “OMVS’  to 
create unique names. Then , when I realised that it was easier to put the ZFS 
datasets on the single large sysres, I needed to catalog them on a catalog 
residing on sysres to make cloning easier.  We ended up with 3 “qualifiers” 
associated with a particular software instance on sysres: the volser, the 
target zone name and the qualifier in the “OMVS” datasets. I know that it would 
be simpler to use the volser as the HLQ but we have to maintain and run several 
back levels of z/os and I am reluctant to change. I may however do that even 
though it is a minor ‘post install’ step to move the entries out of the ‘OMVS’ 
catalog to a catalog 

Keith Gooding

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-28 Thread Barbara Nitz

Hi Kurt,

>Does z/OSMF have a different look and feel than CustomPac ServerPac?  Yes. 
> However, z/OSMF can certainly install as you've described here: you can 
>specify your three installation volumes for the target and distribution 
>libraries, you can let SMS manage the CPAC and SMP/E data sets, your 
>targets and dlibs can be uncataloged, the zFSs can be cataloged with HLQ 
>INST25.  And you don't have to IPL the installed system.
>
>If anyone is confused how to tell z/OSMF about your unique installation 
>desires, let me know.  I bet in most cases, like those described above, 
>there's a way to make it happen.  I'm here to help.

Thanks for your offer to help!

Not having seen the zOSMF method, I still think that the actual process of 
installing is or should be similar. I know serverpac full system replacement 
needs a usercat (that would become the master cat if you wanted to replace that 
and IPL the new system) for allocating and restoring the 'collisions' (all 
allocated data sets in lnklst and the logon proc). Both zOSMF and serverpac go 
and set the SSA into that usercat, I think. What I don't understand is why my 
2.5 serverpac wants to cement the SSA in the DDDefs. I deleted all of that 
before running the UP job. But then with serverpac, I get to see the jobs 
before submitting them. zOSMF might do it the same way and I think that is 
where Terri has the problem with the aliases she keeps mentioning.
And I didn't understand why the SSA should get cemented in the dddefs, anyway.

What I found really annoying in my serverpac was that I was asked for the 
jobclass for sysout data sets, dutifully specified an asterisk (take the one 
from the jobcard) and then got generated statements like this: SYSPRINT DD *. 
It took me a while to understand why I had gotten either abend001 or abend04c 
and had no sysprint to look for the reason.

Best regards, Barbara

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-28 Thread Barbara Nitz

Hi Marna,

thanks for your reply.

>Interesting you just happened upon finding the z/OS upgrade material on the 
>z/OS website :).  I think we need to make it easier to find, as perhaps the 
>System Level portion of the z/OS release bookshelf isn't the best place?  
I was expecting it where the usual books / pdfs are. As far as I am concerned 
it should be where the InfoRoadmap, the ReleaseGuide and the 
UpgradeReferenceSummary are.

We don't have z/OSMF up and running yet, so getting it out of the ZFS file 
system was not an option. I just remembered that you have said that IBM will 
export the complete workflow und put it somewhere (it was github back then, I 
think).

>The other format is an export that IBM did ourselves, and put on the IBM 
>Documentation site. I think this is the one that you encountered.  It is all 
>the material that is found in the z/OSMF Upgrade Workflow, just available with 
>the rest of the z/OS books so you could reference it outside of z/OSMF.  Since 
>it hasn't been tailored to your system, and all the steps are listed, whether 
>or not they are irrelevant to you, you'll find it rather long and probably not 
>as helpful as if you would have created your own customized file, or even done 
>it from with z/OSMF itself.  I agree, it's not the best, which is why it isn't 
>the preferred option. 

Yes, this is the one I had looked for and found. I have no problem reading all 
of the actions (that's what I did with the migration book, anyway, and it 
sometimes lead to interesting discoveries especially in a new installation when 
I wasn't sure yet what gets used. Often the oldtimers in that installation 
didn't know either that things were obsolete by now). 

I did a 'save as' in the browser and saved the html pages to my laptop. I 
expected the content to be on my laptop, but it wasn't. When I opened the html 
pages using notepad, there was some small crap in it that was way too small to 
be the information I had seen online. I actually had to go back and search for 
the link again, save that to my bookmarks and  read online. When I skipped a 
few chapters, it took forever to load the intended content. It felt like that 
content had a lot of external links in it that would explain why it was so slow.
Had I had the content on my laptop, I would have done some editing and only 
kept what was relevant to me. 

Best regards, Barbara

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-28 Thread Marna WALLE

Hi all,
Thanks for all the great feedback!  This has been a good conversation to follow 
the past couple of days. We do appreciate it!

From the conversation, I see those here are on the "minimum  installation path" 
that want to:
1.  Use an existing prior configuration to save time when installing a new z/OS 
release. With *absolute minimum* manual renaming or data sets or volume name 
changes. 
2.  Use an existing master catalog
3.  Mostly indirectly catalog
4.  Use "non-IPLable" data set names, so that existing deployment tools can be 
used.
5.  Run the minimum amount of jobs.  So that they can immediately lay down 
installed target, dlibs, and SMP/E data sets (and reluctantly, have to take 
some CPAC data sets) *only*, and move on by themselves.
6.  Want to be able to see all the JCL before it is run.
(7.  Want to be able to use multi-level aliasing.)

I think I've captured all the *major* points necessary to get a z/OS system 
laid down in a couple of  hours, with multi-level aliasing perhaps not being 
something used by all the contributers.  I do understand there are some other 
niceties, but I generally think I've got the list above what was discussed to 
pull down an order and get it on DASD quickly.  

For doing the installation path above, z/OSMF *does* have that functionality 
today - except for the multi-level aliases. I'm not certain that multi-level 
aliases is critical, but I understand that doing it would be helpful to those 
that have used them for a long time, and want to continue with them.  Yes, the 
functions may not have been "found" immediately while trying out the new 
interface.  Especially when extremely familiar with the CustomPac interface.  

What I'd like to understand:  for those that are on that "minimum installation 
path" above and have done their first z/OS portable software instance install, 
after you've gotten the information here (from Kurt, thanks!!), do you think 
you can lay down that z/OS release again using z/OSMF in a couple of hours?  
Keep in mind, you'd be using z/OSMF's Model After capability, selecting 
"existing master catalog",  data set configuration filtering and mass changes 
on data set and volume names, and system symbols with volume association.  

-Marna WALLE
z/OS System Install and Upgrade
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-28 Thread Marna WALLE

HI Barbara,
Interesting you just happened upon finding the z/OS upgrade material on the 
z/OS website :).  I think we need to make it easier to find, as perhaps the 
System Level portion of the z/OS release bookshelf isn't the best place?  

You mentioned, "I wasn't too happy with it because it doesn't work offline, you 
have to read it online and don't really have a chance to edit or mark anything 
as complete or irrelevant for your installation."  

On the Abstract page for it, we've tried to describe that there are two formats 
for the material. The preferred one, would be the native z/OSMF Workflow format 
which allows you to skip unnecessary steps, run any associated health checks, 
mark as complete,  mark any notes you want in it, assign it to others (if you 
can't do it yourself).  Even if you don't choose to perform the workflow from 
z/OSMF, after you initially create it there, you can still export it into your 
own personal HTML and then PDF, if you wish.  You can even run only the first 
step on the Workflow so that irrelevant steps can be quickly skipped - and 
therefore not exported.  I'm not sure how you might have edited the old z/OS 
Migration book, but it looks a lot like that old book when exported. You could 
use that HTML (or your PDF of it) offline.  So, I think  you can get what you 
want back, if that is all you needed.   And you can get it more tailored than 
you had before.  

The other format is an export that IBM did ourselves, and put on the IBM 
Documentation site. I think this is the one that you encountered.  It is all 
the material that is found in the z/OSMF Upgrade Workflow, just available with 
the rest of the z/OS books so you could reference it outside of z/OSMF.  Since 
it hasn't been tailored to your system, and all the steps are listed, whether 
or not they are irrelevant to you, you'll find it rather long and probably not 
as helpful as if you would have created your own customized file, or even done 
it from with z/OSMF itself.  I agree, it's not the best, which is why it isn't 
the preferred option. 

-Marna WALLE
z/OS System Installation and Upgrade 
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

>  Absolutely understand what you said, but that's dumb.
> 
> I haven't created a NEW Master Catalog in 20 years, because why 
> would I want to have to RECAT all my PAGE, SMF,  USERCATs, NON-VSAM,
> ETC datasets??

Some folks do create a new master catalog.  That's their process. 
Apparently not yours.

> When just adding an SSA to SYS1 gets away from any conflicts, and 
> still gets in the current master catalog,  Then the renames all 
> work, which really only does the physical names on DASD.

Perhaps we have a difference in terminology.  If the new data sets are 
cataloged in your existing master creating, then an "SSA" is not a catalog 
alias.  Its just a unique data set name prefix.

> Then Recatalogs indirectly and NEW datasets and I am done.

Ah, you didn't mention *indirectly* cataloging previously.  z/OSMF can do 
that too.  Once again you just need to tell it you want data sets 
indirectly cataloged.  You do this by specifying the catalog symbol for 
the volume on the Volumes page in the configuration.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management 
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-28 Thread Gibney, Dave

Quite a while ago, probably in OS/390 days, I experimented and did both a 
replacement and an upgrade. Ultimately implemented the upgrade path and haven't 
done a replacement since. 

I agree with Barbara and Terri. I haven't actually IPL's the SMP/E target 
sysres in decades. I use alternate cloned SYSRES ZnnPR1 and ZnnPR2. All DLIBs 
stay in SMS and with the ZnnD HLQ used by the restore job. Target datasets on 
the SMP/E target only have the ZnnT HLQ for the brief time between 
allocate/restore and the rename job. OMVS are cloned to 
OMVS.Znn.lparname.RSU on specific SMS managed volumes.
  Mod 27 sysres and OMVS volumes.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Shaffer, Terri
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 10:08 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues
> 
> Not sure I understand why you do that, but you have that option IF you
> DON'T do a SYSTEM UPGRADE and do a REPLACE, which builds all new things.
> 
> All I want to do is SWAP my 2 RES volumes, which I have done for 30+ years,
> Recatalog whats new to the release I am installing and IPL.
> 
> Like I said, I don't ever want to build a new MCAT, just to perform an
> upgrade, unless there is a really good reason.
> 
> Ms Terri E Shaffer
> Senior Systems Engineer,
> z/OS Support:
> ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
> H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
> terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Edgington, Jerry
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:55 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues
> 
> External Email
> 
> 
> Terri,
> 
> There are ways to leave your Master Catalog alone, and still be able to
> upgrade z/OS.  I install new z/OS either with ServerPac or now z/OSMF
> workflows, to its own "master" catalog, with ALIAS pointer of something like
> ZOS25.  Then build runtime datasets from the "ServerPac" datasets,
> upgrading without changing the z/OS datasets in the Master Catalog, using
> indirect cataloging.
> 
> 
> Jerry Edgington  |  Sr.Technical Analyst IT Technical Operations Enterprise
> Systems
> 400 Broadway  |  Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
> 513.629.1826 direct
> 513.629.1787 fax
> WesternSouthern.com
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Shaffer, Terri
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:44 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues
> 
> This message was sent from an external source outside of Western &
> Southern's network. Do not click links or open attachments unless you
> recognize the sender and know the contents are safe.
> __
> __
> 
> 
> Sorry Kurt,
> 
>  Absolutely understand what you said, but that's dumb.
> 
> I haven't created a NEW Master Catalog in 20 years, because why would I
> want to have to RECAT all my PAGE, SMF,  USERCATs, NON-VSAM, ETC
> datasets??
> 
> When just adding an SSA to SYS1 gets away from any conflicts, and still gets 
> in
> the current master catalog,  Then the renames all work, which really only
> does the physical names on DASD.
> 
> Then Recatalogs indirectly and NEW datasets and I am done.
> 
> Yuck, but okay I will just modify all my datasets again in z/OS 2.6, but will 
> use
> my current instance as a Model to keep volume placements, But even this is
> ugly, because my volsers change... Currently ZA2511  and SMPD25, will go to
> ZA2611 and SMPD26 in z/OS 2.6, so I have mass change things anyhow.
> 
> I really liked the SERVERPAC dialogs even more now, ONE Panel to redefine
> my Physicals and all the logicals get placed magically with 0 work!!
> 
> Ms Terri E Shaffer
> Senior Systems Engineer,
> z/OS Support:
> ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
> H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
> terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Kurt J. Quackenbush
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:14 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues
> 
> External Email
> 
> 
> > Great information Kurt, thanks, but need a clarification on one thing.
> >
> > >>That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as
> > your model when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with
> > other Software >>Management actions on those defined software
> &g

Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

Not sure I understand why you do that, but you have that option IF you DON'T do 
a SYSTEM UPGRADE and do a REPLACE, which builds all new things.

All I want to do is SWAP my 2 RES volumes, which I have done for 30+ years, 
Recatalog whats new to the release I am installing and IPL.

Like I said, I don't ever want to build a new MCAT, just to perform an upgrade, 
unless there is a really good reason.

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Edgington, Jerry
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

External Email


Terri,

There are ways to leave your Master Catalog alone, and still be able to upgrade 
z/OS.  I install new z/OS either with ServerPac or now z/OSMF workflows, to its 
own "master" catalog, with ALIAS pointer of something like ZOS25.  Then build 
runtime datasets from the "ServerPac" datasets, upgrading without changing the 
z/OS datasets in the Master Catalog, using indirect cataloging.


Jerry Edgington  |  Sr.Technical Analyst IT Technical Operations Enterprise 
Systems
400 Broadway  |  Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
513.629.1826 direct
513.629.1787 fax
WesternSouthern.com



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

This message was sent from an external source outside of Western & Southern's 
network. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender 
and know the contents are safe.


Sorry Kurt,

 Absolutely understand what you said, but that's dumb.

I haven't created a NEW Master Catalog in 20 years, because why would I want to 
have to RECAT all my PAGE, SMF,  USERCATs, NON-VSAM, ETC datasets??

When just adding an SSA to SYS1 gets away from any conflicts, and still gets in 
the current master catalog,  Then the renames all work, which really only does 
the physical names on DASD.

Then Recatalogs indirectly and NEW datasets and I am done.

Yuck, but okay I will just modify all my datasets again in z/OS 2.6, but will 
use my current instance as a Model to keep volume placements, But even this is 
ugly, because my volsers change... Currently ZA2511  and SMPD25, will go to 
ZA2611 and SMPD26 in z/OS 2.6, so I have mass change things anyhow.

I really liked the SERVERPAC dialogs even more now, ONE Panel to redefine my 
Physicals and all the logicals get placed magically with 0 work!!

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

External Email


> Great information Kurt, thanks, but need a clarification on one thing.
>
> >>That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as
> your model when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with
> other Software >>Management actions on those defined software
> instances.  For example, on the Software Instances page try the View
> -> Data Sets action.
> >>Or any of the Maintenance Report actions.
>
> So does this mean I will always have to change every dataset again?
> To add my SYS1SSA, CPACSSA and SMPSSA? Because the instances all point
> to the real names.  If so you lost me again, because that was pain
> staking to change 1200 datasets, even with filtering.

Your installed z/OS 2.5 now has your desired data set names.  You defined a 
software instance that describes your installed z/OS 2.5.  Therefore, if you 
select that software instance as your model when you install z/OS next, as much 
as possible z/OSMF will initialize the configuration with the data set names 
from your installed z/OS 2.5.  You then will not have to modify data set names 
for 1200 data sets, however you will have to modify names for any new data sets 
in z/OS next and those which are not SMP/E managed, like the CPAC data sets.  
But those are much fewer.

> At least the SERVERPAC just prefixed everything with you SSA HLQ's.

z/OSMF will also prefix data sets with a temporary catalog alias (SSA) if 
that's what you want.  It does this when you tell z/OSMF you want to create a 
new master catalog.  You then get to specify the temporary catalog alias (SSA) 
to use for data sets in that new master catalog.  But do not manually add the 
tempora

Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-28 Thread Edgington, Jerry

Terri,

There are ways to leave your Master Catalog alone, and still be able to upgrade 
z/OS.  I install new z/OS either with ServerPac or now z/OSMF workflows, to its 
own "master" catalog, with ALIAS pointer of something like ZOS25.  Then build 
runtime datasets from the "ServerPac" datasets, upgrading without changing the 
z/OS datasets in the Master Catalog, using indirect cataloging.  


Jerry Edgington  |  Sr.Technical Analyst
IT Technical Operations
Enterprise Systems
400 Broadway  |  Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
513.629.1826 direct 
513.629.1787 fax 
WesternSouthern.com



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

This message was sent from an external source outside of Western & Southern's 
network. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender 
and know the contents are safe.


Sorry Kurt,

 Absolutely understand what you said, but that's dumb.

I haven't created a NEW Master Catalog in 20 years, because why would I want to 
have to RECAT all my PAGE, SMF,  USERCATs, NON-VSAM, ETC datasets??

When just adding an SSA to SYS1 gets away from any conflicts, and still gets in 
the current master catalog,  Then the renames all work, which really only does 
the physical names on DASD.

Then Recatalogs indirectly and NEW datasets and I am done.

Yuck, but okay I will just modify all my datasets again in z/OS 2.6, but will 
use my current instance as a Model to keep volume placements, But even this is 
ugly, because my volsers change... Currently ZA2511  and SMPD25, will go to 
ZA2611 and SMPD26 in z/OS 2.6, so I have mass change things anyhow.

I really liked the SERVERPAC dialogs even more now, ONE Panel to redefine my 
Physicals and all the logicals get placed magically with 0 work!!

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

External Email


> Great information Kurt, thanks, but need a clarification on one thing.
>
> >>That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as
> your model when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with 
> other Software >>Management actions on those defined software 
> instances.  For example, on the Software Instances page try the View
> -> Data Sets action.
> >>Or any of the Maintenance Report actions.
>
> So does this mean I will always have to change every dataset again?
> To add my SYS1SSA, CPACSSA and SMPSSA? Because the instances all point 
> to the real names.  If so you lost me again, because that was pain 
> staking to change 1200 datasets, even with filtering.

Your installed z/OS 2.5 now has your desired data set names.  You defined a 
software instance that describes your installed z/OS 2.5.  Therefore, if you 
select that software instance as your model when you install z/OS next, as much 
as possible z/OSMF will initialize the configuration with the data set names 
from your installed z/OS 2.5.  You then will not have to modify data set names 
for 1200 data sets, however you will have to modify names for any new data sets 
in z/OS next and those which are not SMP/E managed, like the CPAC data sets.  
But those are much fewer.

> At least the SERVERPAC just prefixed everything with you SSA HLQ's.

z/OSMF will also prefix data sets with a temporary catalog alias (SSA) if 
that's what you want.  It does this when you tell z/OSMF you want to create a 
new master catalog.  You then get to specify the temporary catalog alias (SSA) 
to use for data sets in that new master catalog.  But do not manually add the 
temporary catalog alias (SSA) prefix to the data set names!  z/OSMF will add it 
automatically to data set names, based on what catalog the data sets will be in.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management Chuck Norris 
never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

Sorry Kurt,

 Absolutely understand what you said, but that's dumb.

I haven't created a NEW Master Catalog in 20 years, because why would I want to 
have to RECAT all my PAGE, SMF,  USERCATs, NON-VSAM, ETC datasets??

When just adding an SSA to SYS1 gets away from any conflicts, and still gets in 
the current master catalog,  Then the renames all work, which really only does 
the physical names on DASD.

Then Recatalogs indirectly and NEW datasets and I am done.

Yuck, but okay I will just modify all my datasets again in z/OS 2.6, but will 
use my current instance as a Model to keep volume placements, But even this is 
ugly, because my volsers change... Currently ZA2511  and SMPD25, will go to 
ZA2611 and SMPD26 in z/OS 2.6, so I have mass change things anyhow.

I really liked the SERVERPAC dialogs even more now, ONE Panel to redefine my 
Physicals and all the logicals get placed magically with 0 work!!

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

External Email


> Great information Kurt, thanks, but need a clarification on one thing.
>
> >>That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as
> your model when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with
> other Software >>Management actions on those defined software
> instances.  For example, on the Software Instances page try the View
> -> Data Sets action.
> >>Or any of the Maintenance Report actions.
>
> So does this mean I will always have to change every dataset again?
> To add my SYS1SSA, CPACSSA and SMPSSA? Because the instances all point
> to the real names.  If so you lost me again, because that was pain
> staking to change 1200 datasets, even with filtering.

Your installed z/OS 2.5 now has your desired data set names.  You defined a 
software instance that describes your installed z/OS 2.5.  Therefore, if you 
select that software instance as your model when you install z/OS next, as much 
as possible z/OSMF will initialize the configuration with the data set names 
from your installed z/OS 2.5.  You then will not have to modify data set names 
for 1200 data sets, however you will have to modify names for any new data sets 
in z/OS next and those which are not SMP/E managed, like the CPAC data sets.  
But those are much fewer.

> At least the SERVERPAC just prefixed everything with you SSA HLQ's.

z/OSMF will also prefix data sets with a temporary catalog alias (SSA) if 
that's what you want.  It does this when you tell z/OSMF you want to create a 
new master catalog.  You then get to specify the temporary catalog alias (SSA) 
to use for data sets in that new master catalog.  But do not manually add the 
temporary catalog alias (SSA) prefix to the data set names!  z/OSMF will add it 
automatically to data set names, based on what catalog the data sets will be in.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management Chuck Norris 
never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> Great information Kurt, thanks, but need a clarification on one thing.
> 
> >>That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as
> your model when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with 
> other Software >>Management actions on those defined software 
> instances.  For example, on the Software Instances page try the View
> -> Data Sets action.
> >>Or any of the Maintenance Report actions.
> 
> So does this mean I will always have to change every dataset again?
> To add my SYS1SSA, CPACSSA and SMPSSA? Because the instances all 
> point to the real names.  If so you lost me again, because that was 
> pain staking to change 1200 datasets, even with filtering.

Your installed z/OS 2.5 now has your desired data set names.  You defined 
a software instance that describes your installed z/OS 2.5.  Therefore, if 
you select that software instance as your model when you install z/OS 
next, as much as possible z/OSMF will initialize the configuration with 
the data set names from your installed z/OS 2.5.  You then will not have 
to modify data set names for 1200 data sets, however you will have to 
modify names for any new data sets in z/OS next and those which are not 
SMP/E managed, like the CPAC data sets.  But those are much fewer.

> At least the SERVERPAC just prefixed everything with you SSA HLQ's.

z/OSMF will also prefix data sets with a temporary catalog alias (SSA) if 
that's what you want.  It does this when you tell z/OSMF you want to 
create a new master catalog.  You then get to specify the temporary 
catalog alias (SSA) to use for data sets in that new master catalog.  But 
do not manually add the temporary catalog alias (SSA) prefix to the data 
set names!  z/OSMF will add it automatically to data set names, based on 
what catalog the data sets will be in.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management 
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


--
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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

Great information Kurt, thanks, but need a clarification on one thing.

I was able to get the migration workflow now, that's the steps I was missing.

>>That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as your model 
>>when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with other Software 
>>>>Management actions on those defined software instances.  For example, on 
>>the Software Instances page try the View -> Data Sets action.
>>Or any of the Maintenance Report actions.

So does this means I will always have to change every dataset again?  To add my 
SYS1SSA, CPACSSA and SMPSSA? Because the instances all point to the real names. 
 If so you lost me again, because that was pain staking to change 1200 
datasets, even with filtering.

At least the SERVERPAC just prefixed everything with you SSA HLQ's.

I would have thought the Portable would work as the model.. otherwise YUCK!!

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 11:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

External Email


> So just a few clarifications.
>
> I am guessing when I install z/OS 2.6, not sure what my model is, an
> instance or the portable 2.5 order?

A model is a software instance representing your actual installed software, no 
matter how it was installed, not a portable software instance.

> Because the portable copy still has all the install names like
> SYS1SSA, SMPESSA, CPACSSA for dataset names and it doesn't seem like I
> can change them.
>
> But then if that my model for z/OS 2.6, then it should work with
> everything I setup already, Again probably just a learning curve.
>
> So, I was trying to use my z/OSMF (Serverpac install for 2.5) as a
> base for my software instance.
>
> That's wrong, because it wants to duplicate everything that came with
> that process.
>
> Once I just pointed to the SMPE datasets, you are correct it went
> after the DDDEF's and found everything correctly.
>
> I have now built a 2.3, 2.4 and 2.5 instance that matches my shop.

That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as your model 
when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with other Software 
Management actions on those defined software instances.  For example, on the 
Software Instances page try the View -> Data Sets action.
Or any of the Maintenance Report actions.

> z/OSMF still has a few quirks, depending on how you access things,
> Like my first comments about modifying datasets names. But I
> eventually got it to work.
>
> z/OS will be my first real install using z/osmf, so I am hoping all
> the nuances will be worked out, by then.
>
> Lastly,  I want to thank Barbara for the link to the migration guides.
> I still don't understand were they are in z/OSMF or how to access, but
> for another day.

Briefly, the z/OS Upgrade Workflow files will reside in /usr/lpp/bcp/upgrade/.  
There are several files depending on your upgrade path.  Open the z/OSMF 
Workflows application, click Actions -> Create Workflow, specify the 
appropriate file name in the Workflow definition file field, for example, 
/usr/lpp/bcp/upgrade/zOS_V2.5_from_V2.4_Upgrade_Workflow_V2.0.xml, and click 
Next, then click Finish.  This will create and open an instance of the upgrade 
workflow.  You can then perform the steps of the workflow ...
much like reading the upgrade actions in the older style Migration Guide.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management Chuck Norris 
never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.



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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> So just a few clarifications.
> 
> I am guessing when I install z/OS 2.6, not sure what my model is, an
> instance or the portable 2.5 order?

A model is a software instance representing your actual installed 
software, no matter how it was installed, not a portable software 
instance.

> Because the portable copy still has all the install names like 
> SYS1SSA, SMPESSA, CPACSSA for dataset names and it doesn't seem like
> I can change them.
> 
> But then if that my model for z/OS 2.6, then it should work with 
> everything I setup already, Again probably just a learning curve.
> 
> So, I was trying to use my z/OSMF (Serverpac install for 2.5) as a 
> base for my software instance.
> 
> That's wrong, because it wants to duplicate everything that came 
> with that process.
> 
> Once I just pointed to the SMPE datasets, you are correct it went 
> after the DDDEF's and found everything correctly.
> 
> I have now built a 2.3, 2.4 and 2.5 instance that matches my shop.

That's great!  You would choose any of these software instances as your 
model when installing z/OS next.  You can also experiment with other 
Software Management actions on those defined software instances.  For 
example, on the Software Instances page try the View -> Data Sets action. 
Or any of the Maintenance Report actions.

> z/OSMF still has a few quirks, depending on how you access things, 
> Like my first comments about modifying datasets names. But I 
> eventually got it to work.
> 
> z/OS will be my first real install using z/osmf, so I am hoping all 
> the nuances will be worked out, by then.
> 
> Lastly,  I want to thank Barbara for the link to the migration 
> guides. I still don't understand were they are in z/OSMF or how to 
> access, but for another day.

Briefly, the z/OS Upgrade Workflow files will reside in 
/usr/lpp/bcp/upgrade/.  There are several files depending on your upgrade 
path.  Open the z/OSMF Workflows application, click Actions -> Create 
Workflow, specify the appropriate file name in the Workflow definition 
file field, for example, 
/usr/lpp/bcp/upgrade/zOS_V2.5_from_V2.4_Upgrade_Workflow_V2.0.xml, and 
click Next, then click Finish.  This will create and open an instance of 
the upgrade workflow.  You can then perform the steps of the workflow ... 
much like reading the upgrade actions in the older style Migration Guide.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management 
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.



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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

Thanks Kurt.

As much as I despise z/OSMF, its just another learning curve on what's expected 
or how it works overall.

Having said that, In what I could do, I like it. But still don't like all the 
background things being done. Even if they are just catalog look ups.

So just a few clarifications.

I am guessing when I install z/OS 2.6, not sure what my model is, an instance 
or the portable 2.5 order?

Because the portable copy still has all the install names like SYS1SSA, 
SMPESSA, CPACSSA for dataset names and it doesn't seem like I can change them.

But then if that my model for z/OS 2.6, then it should work with everything I 
setup already, Again probably just a learning curve.

So, I was trying to use my z/OSMF (Serverpac install for 2.5) as a base for my 
software instance.

That's wrong, because it wants to duplicate everything that came with that 
process.

Once I just pointed to the SMPE datasets, you are correct it went after the 
DDDEF's and found everything correctly.

I have now built a 2.3, 2.4 and 2.5 instance that matches my shop.

z/OSMF still has a few quirks, depending on how you access things, Like my 
first comments about modifying datasets names. But I eventually got it to work.

z/OS will be my first real install using z/osmf, so I am hoping all the nuances 
will be worked out, by then.

Lastly,  I want to thank Barbara for the link to the migration guides. I still 
don't understand were they are in z/OSMF or how to access, but for another day.

Thanks


Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 9:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

External Email


> I have one set of installation volumes (TGT125, ZFS225 and DLBV25)
> specific to the release. TGT125 will NEVER get IPL'd, I clone from
> there to everywhere. All 'extranous' data sets (CPAC, the SMP
> environment) goes SMS and stays on my sandbox. I also don't IPL the
> CPAC system that comes with the serverpac. Everything on DLBv25 and
> TGT125 is uncataloged. Only the ZFSs are cataloged under the HLQ
> INST25. They, too, get cloned to the actual sysres and renamed during
cloning.
>
> After reading your posts, I am really glad I used the serverpac,
> especially with zOSMF insisting that everything is done exactly as
> zOSMF defines as 'the right way'. It sounds like a nightmare to me to
> keep my working process using z/OSMF.

Even if you personally will never install z/OS using z/OSMF, I want to address 
some of your concerns for others that may read this thread.

Does z/OSMF have a different look and feel than CustomPac ServerPac?  Yes.
 However, z/OSMF can certainly install as you've described here: you can 
specify your three installation volumes for the target and distribution 
libraries, you can let SMS manage the CPAC and SMP/E data sets, your targets 
and dlibs can be uncataloged, the zFSs can be cataloged with HLQ INST25.  And 
you don't have to IPL the installed system.

If anyone is confused how to tell z/OSMF about your unique installation 
desires, let me know.  I bet in most cases, like those described above, there's 
a way to make it happen.  I'm here to help.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management Chuck Norris 
never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-28 Thread kekronbekron

Hey Kurt (and Marna),

In order to help customers get to the zOSMF way of doing it, IBM could do a 
quick round of calls with its customers to understand how shops most commonly 
do it currently.
Then, IBM could do multi-part webinars or a bunch of IBM TechDocs to address 
the switching-over concerns and points to note.
Leaving very little to individual customer experimentation, with support like 
mentioned above, switching to the zOSMF way should be easier.

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, October 28th, 2021 at 6:44 PM, Kurt J. Quackenbush 
 wrote:

> > I have one set of installation volumes (TGT125, ZFS225 and DLBV25)
> >
> > specific to the release. TGT125 will NEVER get IPL'd, I clone from
> >
> > there to everywhere. All 'extranous' data sets (CPAC, the SMP
> >
> > environment) goes SMS and stays on my sandbox. I also don't IPL the
> >
> > CPAC system that comes with the serverpac. Everything on DLBv25 and
> >
> > TGT125 is uncataloged. Only the ZFSs are cataloged under the HLQ
> >
> > INST25. They, too, get cloned to the actual sysres and renamed during
>
> cloning.
>
> > After reading your posts, I am really glad I used the serverpac,
> >
> > especially with zOSMF insisting that everything is done exactly as
> >
> > zOSMF defines as 'the right way'. It sounds like a nightmare to me
> >
> > to keep my working process using z/OSMF.
>
> Even if you personally will never install z/OS using z/OSMF, I want to
>
> address some of your concerns for others that may read this thread.
>
> Does z/OSMF have a different look and feel than CustomPac ServerPac? Yes.
>
> However, z/OSMF can certainly install as you've described here: you can
>
> specify your three installation volumes for the target and distribution
>
> libraries, you can let SMS manage the CPAC and SMP/E data sets, your
>
> targets and dlibs can be uncataloged, the zFSs can be cataloged with HLQ
>
> INST25. And you don't have to IPL the installed system.
>
> If anyone is confused how to tell z/OSMF about your unique installation
>
> desires, let me know. I bet in most cases, like those described above,
>
> there's a way to make it happen. I'm here to help.
>
> Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
>
> Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.
>
>
> ---
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

> I have one set of installation volumes (TGT125, ZFS225 and DLBV25) 
> specific to the release. TGT125 will NEVER get IPL'd, I clone from 
> there to everywhere. All 'extranous' data sets (CPAC, the SMP 
> environment) goes SMS and stays on my sandbox. I also don't IPL the 
> CPAC system that comes with the serverpac. Everything on DLBv25 and 
> TGT125 is uncataloged. Only the ZFSs are cataloged under the HLQ 
> INST25. They, too, get cloned to the actual sysres and renamed during 
cloning.
> 
> After reading your posts, I am really glad I used the serverpac, 
> especially with zOSMF insisting that everything is done exactly as 
> zOSMF defines as 'the right way'. It sounds like a nightmare to me 
> to keep my working process using z/OSMF.

Even if you personally will never install z/OS using z/OSMF, I want to 
address some of your concerns for others that may read this thread.

Does z/OSMF have a different look and feel than CustomPac ServerPac?  Yes. 
 However, z/OSMF can certainly install as you've described here: you can 
specify your three installation volumes for the target and distribution 
libraries, you can let SMS manage the CPAC and SMP/E data sets, your 
targets and dlibs can be uncataloged, the zFSs can be cataloged with HLQ 
INST25.  And you don't have to IPL the installed system.

If anyone is confused how to tell z/OSMF about your unique installation 
desires, let me know.  I bet in most cases, like those described above, 
there's a way to make it happen.  I'm here to help.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues

2021-10-27 Thread Barbara Nitz

Terri,

I had found the migration workflow here (of all places as a link for the
upgrade to the z15 that we just completed):
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.e0zm100/Export_zOS_V2R3_to_V2R5_Upgrade_Workflow.html
I wasn't too happy with it because it doesn't work offline, you have to read it
online and don't really have a chance to edit or mark anything as complete or
irrelevant for your installation.
Now Marna tells us the ptfs where it can be found. That little tidbit of
information hadn't made it to my corner of the world. We do have oa60711
installed, but when I check the path /usr/lpp/bcp/upgrade, that is not a
readable format. It can probably only be read using zOSMF so it is useless to
someone without zOSMF up and running who uses the serverpac.

As for a zOSMF install - I had always planned to use the serverpac for 2.5. We
haven't set up zOSMF yet (that will have to happen after 2.5 is up and
running). Like Dave, all I really need from the serverpac are ALLOCDS and
RESTORE. I don't even run the full UP and I create my own catalog job. From
painful experience, I also compare everything to everything to make sure all is
complete (SMPE zones against the restored volumes, target volume against the
catalog).

As I had mentioned before on ibmmain, I do a lot of allocations quite different
from what IBM delivers so it is imperative that I can see the JCL before
submitting. I had heard that I cannot see it and had planned to put a JCL error
into the jobcard so that I can change from there. Doing that would probably
play havoc with what zOSMF *assumes* and enforces.

I have one set of installation volumes (TGT125, ZFS225 and DLBV25) specific to
the release. TGT125 will NEVER get IPL'd, I clone from there to everywhere. All
'extranous' data sets (CPAC, the SMP environment) goes SMS and stays on my
sandbox. I also don't IPL the CPAC system that comes with the serverpac.
Everything on DLBv25 and TGT125 is uncataloged. Only the ZFSs are cataloged
under the HLQ INST25. They, too, get cloned to the actual sysres and renamed
during cloning.

After reading your posts, I am really glad I used the serverpac, especially
with zOSMF insisting that everything is done exactly as zOSMF defines as 'the
right way'. It sounds like a nightmare to me to keep my working process using
z/OSMF. I'll leave that to my successor, as 2.5 is my last operating system
install.

Barbara

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

2021-10-27 Thread Marna WALLE

Hi Bob,
Yes, the z/OS V2.5 Upgrade Workflow is available in PTF(s) on z/OS V2.3 and 
V2.4, and in V2.5, and can be found in /usr/lpp/bcp/upgrade/.  It is no longer 
in github. The latest level of the Workflow is found in APAR OA61406 - which is 
the level that contains all the links to the GA z/OS V2.5 books.  It also 
contains some comments that our early customers had, which we wanted to include 
in that refresh.  PTFs will close any day now!

All the PTFs associated with the z/OS V2.5 Upgrade Workflow will be identified 
with the FIXCAT IBM.Coexistence.z/OS.V2R5, so you can easily install them along 
with any applicable release coexistence necessary.  If you've already installed 
coexistence PTFs, chances are you have the initial release of the Workflow 
(APAR OA60711) which was available right at the z/OS V2.5 Preview announce.  
The initial release only could use the z/OS V2.4 book links, since the V2.5 
books were not yet available.  

This z/OS Upgrade Workflow is intended to be used before you do the z/OS V2.5 
installation.  With that in mind, it is not included in the z/OS V2.5 
ServerPac-supplied workflows (unless you count included in the V2.5 root zFS, 
which is a little too late to start looking at upgrade actions). 

Remember, as we refresh the Upgrade Workflow with new or changed information in 
PTFs, you do not need to restart the Workflow from scratch and lose your 
progress. Use the "Create new based on existing" option z/OSMF Workflows.  That 
will take your partially (or fully) completed Workflow from before, and create 
a new "merged" Workflow for you.  Your steps you have completed and which were 
not changed, will remain completed.   

-Marna WALLE
z/OS System Installation and Upgrade
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

> What about datasets that are not in the CSI, e.g., CPAC.*?

When you use a model to initialize the deployment configuration, data sets 
not managed by SMP/E, like the CPAC.* data sets, won't be initialized to 
your existing data set naming conventions.  The same is true for new data 
sets that don't have a match in the model.  They get initialized with the 
data set name used by the ServerPac production process.  On the Data Sets 
page in the deployment configuration wizard data sets that did not have a 
match in the model are identified by a message in the row, so its easy to 
determine which data sets need some attention.  However, those data sets 
should be few in comparison to all of those that will get matched with the 
model.

> > > I do echo Terri's sentiments that there should be a way to mostly
> > > seed a new z/OSMF instance whether there is a utility that reads the
> > > last saved custompac config or somehow scans your sysres.
> > 
> > That is exactly what z/OSMF offers!  You can "model" your installation
> > configuration on your existing installed software.  For example when
> > installing z/OS 2.5, simply define your existing z/OS 2.4 (or 2.3) as 
a
> > Software Instance.  (Use the Software Instance -> Add action, specify 
the
> > global zone CSI, select the target zones from that global, and that's 
it!)
> >  During the deployment you can select this Software Instance as your 
model
> > and z/OSMF will analyze your DDDEF entries in your existing CSI to
> > determine your desired data set names and match them up with the new
> > software as much as possible.
> > 
> > Honestly, we did try to help you avoid a bunch of changes in the
> > configuration.  Perhaps we need to advertise it more, but the Model
> > function is your friend.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

2021-10-27 Thread Seymour J Metz

What about datasets that are not in the CSI, e.g., CPAC.*?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush 
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 3:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

> I too ordered V2.5 in the "window" where you still have a choice on
> custompac dialogs or z/OSMF.   I opted to go custompac one more time.
>
> I do echo Terri's sentiments that there should be a way to mostly
> seed a new z/OSMF instance whether there is a utility that reads the
> last saved custompac config or somehow scans your sysres.

That is exactly what z/OSMF offers!  You can "model" your installation
configuration on your existing installed software.  For example when
installing z/OS 2.5, simply define your existing z/OS 2.4 (or 2.3) as a
Software Instance.  (Use the Software Instance -> Add action, specify the
global zone CSI, select the target zones from that global, and that's it!)
 During the deployment you can select this Software Instance as your model
and z/OSMF will analyze your DDDEF entries in your existing CSI to
determine your desired data set names and match them up with the new
software as much as possible.

Honestly, we did try to help you avoid a bunch of changes in the
configuration.  Perhaps we need to advertise it more, but the Model
function is your friend.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

> I too ordered V2.5 in the "window" where you still have a choice on 
> custompac dialogs or z/OSMF.   I opted to go custompac one more time.
> 
> I do echo Terri's sentiments that there should be a way to mostly 
> seed a new z/OSMF instance whether there is a utility that reads the
> last saved custompac config or somehow scans your sysres.

That is exactly what z/OSMF offers!  You can "model" your installation 
configuration on your existing installed software.  For example when 
installing z/OS 2.5, simply define your existing z/OS 2.4 (or 2.3) as a 
Software Instance.  (Use the Software Instance -> Add action, specify the 
global zone CSI, select the target zones from that global, and that's it!) 
 During the deployment you can select this Software Instance as your model 
and z/OSMF will analyze your DDDEF entries in your existing CSI to 
determine your desired data set names and match them up with the new 
software as much as possible.

Honestly, we did try to help you avoid a bunch of changes in the 
configuration.  Perhaps we need to advertise it more, but the Model 
function is your friend.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.


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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

2021-10-27 Thread Keith Gooding

Hi Kurt. In answer to your question about my previous post:

We put the SMP/E target zone datasets on the target volume. The names in this 
case are SMPE.ZOS250.MVST250.* which are unique in the system. The CSI is VSAM 
so it is directly cataloged. The installation process indirectly catalogs the 
non-VSAM ones and I assume that the DdDEFs for them include the specific 
volser. However when handling these datasets it is more convenient if they are 
directly cataloged. It is possible, so that is what we do (post install).

I also mentioned that I would like to be able to create a 2-level alias and 
associated catalog. That is because we use OMVS.ZOS250 as the qualifier for 
target zone file systems, and OMVS for most other file systems.

Not necessarily all logical or the best practice but we are where we are. 

Keith Gooding

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

> Wanted to add a few other comments
> Since IBM is forcing everyone to z/OSMF with 2.5, not excited for 
> this but It seems to work pretty well, except for everything that 
> cant see it doing behind the scenes. It seems this is a ton of 
> catalog look-ups to validate nothing exist.
> 
> But then in the IZUD04UZ job you delete everything anyhow. So why 
> validate it in the workflows?  I fail because my SMPE datasets are 
> already allocated, because I installed thru a SERVERPAC.

When you use the z/OSMF Deployment action to install a ServerPac, you're 
telling z/OSMF you want to install the software provided in that 
ServerPac.  To "install software" means z/OSMF will create data sets. 
Therefore, before it attempts to create any data sets, it ensures there 
are no unintended collisions with existing data sets on your specified 
volumes and in the catalogs.  You either have to modify the data set names 
in the configuration, or rename or delete the existing data sets so there 
are no unintended collisions.

If you want z/OSMF to consider such collisions to be intended, then tell 
z/OSMF to delete the existing data sets.  You do this either by selecting 
a software instance to be replaced that contains the subject data sets, or 
by indicating the target volume that contains the subject data sets will 
be initialized.  Both options result in z/OSMF considering such collisions 
to be intended, and the existing data sets will get deleted explicitly.

> Lastly since the direction in 2.5 for z/OSMF, now everyone will have
> a valid instance going forward.  So you should still provide a way 
> to extract the migration action XML, so that for 2.5 only its 
> available outside.

What "migration action XML" are you talking about?  The customization 
workflows supplied in the ServerPac?  If so, those workflows are not 
designed to be performed stand alone.  They are designed to be performed 
from Software Management when you install the ServerPac PSWI.

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM,  z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.



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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

2021-10-27 Thread Dave Jousma

Oh, and in the custompac dialogs, there are exactly 4 jobs that I run after 
resolving new datasets that came along with the new release.

- allocate and catalog the datasets (ALLOCDS)
- restore the datasets (RESTORE)
- update SMPE DDDEFS (UP)
- and a modified version of RECATALOG datasets to Target(RECATDS) to only run 
the IEHPROGM steps

Then onto applying any usermods.

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

2021-10-27 Thread Dave Jousma

>Hey Dave
> I ordered both, and you are right in 4 hours I had my z/OS loaded and IPLed 
> at least the initial IPL in test.  However
>
>I wanted to try z/OSMF and I actually like the dataset naming flexibility, 
>much better than the dialogs and Alias's discovery.
>
>But all the background dataset checking that use to be done in the first 
>SERVERPAC job, IE validate your configuration/Catalog setup, that is driving 
>me insane.
>
>That and in my mind when I build a software instance, not everything that the 
>SERVERPAC downloads is copied/used.
>
>IBM seems to force copying the CPAC and SMPE files, when I only want the SYS1 
>datasets and OMVS.
>
>Lastly and there are many takes on this from SYSTEM Programmers, But I only 
>ever have one DISTRIBUTION zone and it matches my 2-3 target zones/RES vol 
>sets.
>
>This is because I always want to make sure no-one restores from the wrong 
>DLIBS..  So I don’t ever copy these when I clone either.

Again,  I havent played with the zOSMF version yet, but it sounds like we do a 
similar cloning process.   My SYSRES volumes are mod-54's and ONLY contain the 
target datasets including OMVS with sysres volser as part of the dsn.   All the 
SMPE, CPAC, junk I just dont need get installed on the DLIB volume.

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

Completely agree mostly..  I just want the option of some flexibility so I can 
still manipulate my layout after the fact not in the workflows.

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Richards, Robert B. (CTR)
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 1:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


Shields up!

This old dog wants to learn a new trick. I'm tired of the ISPF-based dialog 
install after doing ServerPac installs for several decades. Marna's NewEra 
two-part presentations were outstanding.

She spoke of taking a coworker with no experience with either and getting a 
running system up in three days! Granted, she mentored the individual, but 
still!

And aren't the migration workflows available as PTFs separate from the Software 
Instance? I am currently waiting for that PTF to close to get the most updated 
version of the workflow to review prior to actually ordering and downloading 
z/OS 2.5.

Bob



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Dave Jousma
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 1:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

I too ordered V2.5 in the "window" where you still have a choice on custompac 
dialogs or z/OSMF.   I opted to go custompac one more time.

I do echo Terri's sentiments that there should be a way to mostly seed a new 
z/OSMF instance whether there is a utility that reads the last saved custompac 
config or somehow scans your sysres.   That will definitely soften the blow for 
moving over.Us old timers, can whip through the old dialogs in less than a 
day, and be pretty much ready to IPL.  I understand the need to modernize the 
environment for the next wave.

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This email message and any attachments may contain confidential, proprietary or 
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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

Hey Dave
 I ordered both, and you are right in 4 hours I had my z/OS loaded and IPLed at 
least the initial IPL in test.  However

I wanted to try z/OSMF and I actually like the dataset naming flexibility, much 
better than the dialogs and Alias's discovery.

But all the background dataset checking that use to be done in the first 
SERVERPAC job, IE validate your configuration/Catalog setup, that is driving me 
insane.

That and in my mind when I build a software instance, not everything that the 
SERVERPAC downloads is copied/used.

IBM seems to force copying the CPAC and SMPE files, when I only want the SYS1 
datasets and OMVS.

Lastly and there are many takes on this from SYSTEM Programmers, But I only 
ever have one DISTRIBUTION zone and it matches my 2-3 target zones/RES vol sets.

This is because I always want to make sure no-one restores from the wrong 
DLIBS..  So I don’t ever copy these when I clone either.

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Dave Jousma
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 1:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


I too ordered V2.5 in the "window" where you still have a choice on custompac 
dialogs or z/OSMF.   I opted to go custompac one more time.

I do echo Terri's sentiments that there should be a way to mostly seed a new 
z/OSMF instance whether there is a utility that reads the last saved custompac 
config or somehow scans your sysres.   That will definitely soften the blow for 
moving over.Us old timers, can whip through the old dialogs in less than a 
day, and be pretty much ready to IPL.  I understand the need to modernize the 
environment for the next wave.

--
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lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

 [https://go.aciworldwide.com/rs/030-ROK-804/images/aci-footer.jpg] 
<http://www.aciworldwide.com>
This email message and any attachments may contain confidential, proprietary or 
non-public information. The information is intended solely for the designated 
recipient(s). If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this 
email, please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any review, 
dissemination, use or reliance upon this information by unintended recipients 
is prohibited. Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the author 
personally.

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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

2021-10-27 Thread Richards, Robert B. (CTR)

Shields up!

This old dog wants to learn a new trick. I'm tired of the ISPF-based dialog 
install after doing ServerPac installs for several decades. Marna's NewEra 
two-part presentations were outstanding.

She spoke of taking a coworker with no experience with either and getting a 
running system up in three days! Granted, she mentored the individual, but 
still!

And aren't the migration workflows available as PTFs separate from the Software 
Instance? I am currently waiting for that PTF to close to get the most updated 
version of the workflow to review prior to actually ordering and downloading 
z/OS 2.5.

Bob



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Dave Jousma
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 1:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

I too ordered V2.5 in the "window" where you still have a choice on custompac 
dialogs or z/OSMF.   I opted to go custompac one more time.

I do echo Terri's sentiments that there should be a way to mostly seed a new 
z/OSMF instance whether there is a utility that reads the last saved custompac 
config or somehow scans your sysres.   That will definitely soften the blow for 
moving over.Us old timers, can whip through the old dialogs in less than a 
day, and be pretty much ready to IPL.  I understand the need to modernize the 
environment for the next wave.

--
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--
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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

2021-10-27 Thread Dave Jousma

I too ordered V2.5 in the "window" where you still have a choice on custompac 
dialogs or z/OSMF.   I opted to go custompac one more time.

I do echo Terri's sentiments that there should be a way to mostly seed a new 
z/OSMF instance whether there is a utility that reads the last saved custompac 
config or somehow scans your sysres.   That will definitely soften the blow for 
moving over.Us old timers, can whip through the old dialogs in less than a 
day, and be pretty much ready to IPL.  I understand the need to modernize the 
environment for the next wave.

--
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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

Also Kurt, again I have never used software deployment, but the only datasets I 
ever replicate for a close are SYS1.* and my OMVS files.

I tried to build a new instance and again it fails.  Why are you validating in 
the workflows???

At this point I give up..

error
Generation of the deployment jobs failed. Target data set "CPAC.ZOS25.SAMPLIB" 
has the same name as a data set already cataloged on the target system.
IZUD9702E
Oct 27, 2021, 1:04:35 PM
error
Generation of the deployment jobs failed. Target data set "CPAC.ZOS25.LINKLIB" 
has the same name as a data set already cataloged on the target system.
IZUD9702E
Oct 27, 2021, 1:04:34 PM

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


NVM,  It how you select/filter the names that changes if you can modify or not..

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


Wanted to add a few other comments
Since IBM is forcing everyone to z/OSMF with 2.5, not excited for this but It 
seems to work pretty well, except for everything that cant see it doing behind 
the scenes. It seems this is a ton of catalog look-ups to validate nothing 
exist.

But then in the IZUD04UZ job you delete everything anyhow. So why validate it 
in the workflows?  I fail because my SMPE datasets are already allocated, 
because I installed thru a SERVERPAC.

This would be all good, because I just wasn't planning on running any of the 
jobs, unless I saw something I needed for customizations.

But again you don't allow that and stop with errors.

Lastly since the direction in 2.5 for z/OSMF, now everyone will have a valid 
instance going forward.  So you should still provide a way to extract the 
migration action XML, so that for 2.5 only its available outside.

PPS..  If you do respond how do the workflow variables for in install portable 
instance to mirror a production names??

I cant use a filter to change the dataset names, However if I select each one 
separately, I can which would take forever.

Software Management > Portable Software Instances > Deployments > Deployment 
Checklist > Configure Deployment >Modify Modify Data Sets Enter the data set 
name or qualifiers to use for the selected data sets.
Common data set qualifiers: Example data set name:
From:   SYS1SSA.SYS1.SICELPASYS1SSA.SYS1.SICELPA
To:
SYS1.SICELPA


Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 9:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


Hi Kurt,
  There are lots of things I dislike about black boxes and not being able to 
take things on blind faith.

In my 39 years as a system programmer that's gotten me into trouble exactly 
once before I said I just will not run anything without seeing the JCL.

So I pity the newer z/OS folks, because you have puts steps in to validate what 
you generate should run. But that's not always a good assumption. 
Invalid/duplicate issue might only be a temporary condition.

I use a process to roll out software by having my clone jobs already setup, 
between ZA2x11T and ZB2x11T zones for the last 21 years very successfully.

I control the software names in my batch jobs, because of nuances in the 
serverpac dialogs. Now you have removed most of those issues in z/OSMF but you 
added new stops to verify/validate all datasets names being allocated.  Good, 
or Bad, I might want to change things AFTER the fact that I missed, instead of 
re-driving thru the dialogs/screens.  I would be nice here to just generate the 
jobs period with no validation steps as you generate the jobs.

You could always have an option to validate whats generated or NOT. With all 
the standard disclaimersetc

So having NEVER used z/OSMF for software deployments because it was just way to 
cumbersome and time consuming to build for 107 LPARS, like at chase or even 
here at ACI, I have 6 lpars.  Again build once and clone X number of times.

So I am stuck in the z/OSMF now, because I cant build/use the instance of z/OS 
2.5 because everythi

Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

NVM,  It how you select/filter the names that changes if you can modify or not..

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


Wanted to add a few other comments
Since IBM is forcing everyone to z/OSMF with 2.5, not excited for this but It 
seems to work pretty well, except for everything that cant see it doing behind 
the scenes. It seems this is a ton of catalog look-ups to validate nothing 
exist.

But then in the IZUD04UZ job you delete everything anyhow. So why validate it 
in the workflows?  I fail because my SMPE datasets are already allocated, 
because I installed thru a SERVERPAC.

This would be all good, because I just wasn't planning on running any of the 
jobs, unless I saw something I needed for customizations.

But again you don't allow that and stop with errors.

Lastly since the direction in 2.5 for z/OSMF, now everyone will have a valid 
instance going forward.  So you should still provide a way to extract the 
migration action XML, so that for 2.5 only its available outside.

PPS..  If you do respond how do the workflow variables for in install portable 
instance to mirror a production names??

I cant use a filter to change the dataset names, However if I select each one 
separately, I can which would take forever.

Software Management > Portable Software Instances > Deployments > Deployment 
Checklist > Configure Deployment >Modify Modify Data Sets Enter the data set 
name or qualifiers to use for the selected data sets.
Common data set qualifiers: Example data set name:
From:   SYS1SSA.SYS1.SICELPASYS1SSA.SYS1.SICELPA
To:
SYS1.SICELPA


Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 9:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


Hi Kurt,
  There are lots of things I dislike about black boxes and not being able to 
take things on blind faith.

In my 39 years as a system programmer that's gotten me into trouble exactly 
once before I said I just will not run anything without seeing the JCL.

So I pity the newer z/OS folks, because you have puts steps in to validate what 
you generate should run. But that's not always a good assumption. 
Invalid/duplicate issue might only be a temporary condition.

I use a process to roll out software by having my clone jobs already setup, 
between ZA2x11T and ZB2x11T zones for the last 21 years very successfully.

I control the software names in my batch jobs, because of nuances in the 
serverpac dialogs. Now you have removed most of those issues in z/OSMF but you 
added new stops to verify/validate all datasets names being allocated.  Good, 
or Bad, I might want to change things AFTER the fact that I missed, instead of 
re-driving thru the dialogs/screens.  I would be nice here to just generate the 
jobs period with no validation steps as you generate the jobs.

You could always have an option to validate whats generated or NOT. With all 
the standard disclaimersetc

So having NEVER used z/OSMF for software deployments because it was just way to 
cumbersome and time consuming to build for 107 LPARS, like at chase or even 
here at ACI, I have 6 lpars.  Again build once and clone X number of times.

So I am stuck in the z/OSMF now, because I cant build/use the instance of z/OS 
2.5 because everything still has the SYS1SSA or SMPESSA, etc HLQ's.  I have 
already renamed everything to SYS1., SMPE. Or CPAC.  So its ready for 
production, but the workflows and variables don't reflect the PROD names.

In-Fact even if I say build a NEW instance I cant change the source so it fails 
because those names don't exist.  I have tried a few things and cant get around 
this.

Lastly all I really want is the migration actions, but instead you hid, it 
seems until sometime later in the workflows.

You also for the customer to define their previous release 2.3 and 2.4 in my 
case, so that you can build a checklist.  I sortof get that, but since I don't 
have anything primed its extra steps to get it to work.

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 8:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and

Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

Wanted to add a few other comments
Since IBM is forcing everyone to z/OSMF with 2.5, not excited for this but It 
seems to work pretty well, except for everything that cant see it doing behind 
the scenes. It seems this is a ton of catalog look-ups to validate nothing 
exist.

But then in the IZUD04UZ job you delete everything anyhow. So why validate it 
in the workflows?  I fail because my SMPE datasets are already allocated, 
because I installed thru a SERVERPAC.

This would be all good, because I just wasn't planning on running any of the 
jobs, unless I saw something I needed for customizations.

But again you don't allow that and stop with errors.

Lastly since the direction in 2.5 for z/OSMF, now everyone will have a valid 
instance going forward.  So you should still provide a way to extract the 
migration action XML, so that for 2.5 only its available outside.

PPS..  If you do respond how do the workflow variables for in install portable 
instance to mirror a production names??

I cant use a filter to change the dataset names, However if I select each one 
separately, I can which would take forever.

Software Management > Portable Software Instances > Deployments > Deployment 
Checklist > Configure Deployment >Modify
Modify Data Sets
Enter the data set name or qualifiers to use for the selected data sets.
Common data set qualifiers: Example data set name:
From:   SYS1SSA.SYS1.SICELPASYS1SSA.SYS1.SICELPA
To:
SYS1.SICELPA


Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Shaffer, Terri
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 9:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


Hi Kurt,
  There are lots of things I dislike about black boxes and not being able to 
take things on blind faith.

In my 39 years as a system programmer that's gotten me into trouble exactly 
once before I said I just will not run anything without seeing the JCL.

So I pity the newer z/OS folks, because you have puts steps in to validate what 
you generate should run. But that's not always a good assumption. 
Invalid/duplicate issue might only be a temporary condition.

I use a process to roll out software by having my clone jobs already setup, 
between ZA2x11T and ZB2x11T zones for the last 21 years very successfully.

I control the software names in my batch jobs, because of nuances in the 
serverpac dialogs. Now you have removed most of those issues in z/OSMF but you 
added new stops to verify/validate all datasets names being allocated.  Good, 
or Bad, I might want to change things AFTER the fact that I missed, instead of 
re-driving thru the dialogs/screens.  I would be nice here to just generate the 
jobs period with no validation steps as you generate the jobs.

You could always have an option to validate whats generated or NOT. With all 
the standard disclaimersetc

So having NEVER used z/OSMF for software deployments because it was just way to 
cumbersome and time consuming to build for 107 LPARS, like at chase or even 
here at ACI, I have 6 lpars.  Again build once and clone X number of times.

So I am stuck in the z/OSMF now, because I cant build/use the instance of z/OS 
2.5 because everything still has the SYS1SSA or SMPESSA, etc HLQ's.  I have 
already renamed everything to SYS1., SMPE. Or CPAC.  So its ready for 
production, but the workflows and variables don't reflect the PROD names.

In-Fact even if I say build a NEW instance I cant change the source so it fails 
because those names don't exist.  I have tried a few things and cant get around 
this.

Lastly all I really want is the migration actions, but instead you hid, it 
seems until sometime later in the workflows.

You also for the customer to define their previous release 2.3 and 2.4 in my 
case, so that you can build a checklist.  I sortof get that, but since I don't 
have anything primed its extra steps to get it to work.

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 8:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


> Actually now I was totally able to customize all my dataset names,
> which is really great. It is time consuming because I basically had to
> change everything.

Glad to hear you were able to customize the data set names to your liking.
 As already mentioned, next time I encourage you to use a Model and z/OSMF will 
use your existing data set name conventions as much as possible.

> Now I hit a few things, becaus

Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

Hi Kurt,
  There are lots of things I dislike about black boxes and not being able to 
take things on blind faith.

In my 39 years as a system programmer that's gotten me into trouble exactly 
once before I said I just will not run anything without seeing the JCL.

So I pity the newer z/OS folks, because you have puts steps in to validate what 
you generate should run. But that's not always a good assumption. 
Invalid/duplicate issue might only be a temporary condition.

I use a process to roll out software by having my clone jobs already setup, 
between ZA2x11T and ZB2x11T zones for the last 21 years very successfully.

I control the software names in my batch jobs, because of nuances in the 
serverpac dialogs. Now you have removed most of those issues in z/OSMF but you 
added new stops to verify/validate all datasets names being allocated.  Good, 
or Bad, I might want to change things AFTER the fact that I missed, instead of 
re-driving thru the dialogs/screens.  I would be nice here to just generate the 
jobs period with no validation steps as you generate the jobs.

You could always have an option to validate whats generated or NOT. With all 
the standard disclaimersetc

So having NEVER used z/OSMF for software deployments because it was just way to 
cumbersome and time consuming to build for 107 LPARS, like at chase or even 
here at ACI, I have 6 lpars.  Again build once and clone X number of times.

So I am stuck in the z/OSMF now, because I cant build/use the instance of z/OS 
2.5 because everything still has the SYS1SSA or SMPESSA, etc HLQ's.  I have 
already renamed everything to SYS1., SMPE. Or CPAC.  So its ready for 
production, but the workflows and variables don't reflect the PROD names.

In-Fact even if I say build a NEW instance I cant change the source so it fails 
because those names don't exist.  I have tried a few things and cant get around 
this.

Lastly all I really want is the migration actions, but instead you hid, it 
seems until sometime later in the workflows.

You also for the customer to define their previous release 2.3 and 2.4 in my 
case, so that you can build a checklist.  I sortof get that, but since I don't 
have anything primed its extra steps to get it to work.

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Kurt J. Quackenbush
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 8:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

External Email


> Actually now I was totally able to customize all my dataset names,
> which is really great. It is time consuming because I basically had to
> change everything.

Glad to hear you were able to customize the data set names to your liking.
 As already mentioned, next time I encourage you to use a Model and z/OSMF will 
use your existing data set name conventions as much as possible.

> Now I hit a few things, because its always checking names in the
> background..  So when it says its going to build jobs, it lies, its
> actually verifying names first.  So because I already installed z/OS
> 2.5 with a serverpac, I would like to bypass a few things and it will
> not let me.  So back to adding a SSA for my duplicates to get thru the
> screens.

I'd like to understand this comment better.  z/OSMF does indeed verify the 
information you specified in the configuration before generating the jobs, such 
as data set names and locations.  Mostly it ensures there is not already a same 
named data set on a specified volume or in a catalog.  Are you saying z/OSMF 
found a volume or catalog collision when in fact there was no collision?  If 
so, can you elaborate?  For example, did you select to create a new master 
catalog?  Are you using indirect cataloging for your existing data sets, and 
did you tell z/OSMF you want to indirectly catalog the new data sets?  Did you 
tell z/OSMF to create data sets on a particular volume?

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM,  z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management

Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.

>



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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated

> I still have some gripes but these occurred also with the old dialogue:

> - SMPE.ZOS250.* non-VSAM datasets on the sysres are indirectly 
> cataloged because indirect cataloging by the installation dialogue 
> works at the volume level.

Can you expound on this comment a bit?  Are you saying you'd like some of 
the data sets on a particular volume to be indirectly cataloged, but 
others on that same volume to be directly cataloged?  Interesting. 
Curious, why not indirectly catalog all?

Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM,  z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management
Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.



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Re: Serverpac installs January 2022 and beyond - Issues Updated