Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
5 years and 21,000. Love it. Rick On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 18:49 Brian Walters wrote: > Maybe I got a good one as well - never any problems with it. Admittedly > it's > only had fairly light use (shutter count less than 1 in 6 years). > > > Cheers > > Brian > > ++ > Brian Walters > Western Sydney Australia > http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ > > > > On 03 June 2018 at 02:18 jtainter wrote: > > > > > > Bill wrote: > > > > "I'm not sure if they got everything fixed on the K5 during it's run, > but in > > addition to the AF issues, they had problems with spots of cement on the > > sensor on early ones and buttons falling off. Apparently if you got a > good > > one, they were very good indeed. I wasn't so lucky." > > > > I guess I got lucky with my K-5. I did eventually part with in in favor > of the > > K-5II and IIs. I still use them when I travel. They (and the DA lenses) > are > > smaller and lighter than my K-1 and its lenses, and I am still very > pleased > > with the image quality. > > > > The K-5 was produced by Hoya, the II and IIs by Ricoh. The Hoya version > was > > notorious for cheapness. Ricoh, to their credit, fixed that. > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow > > the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
Maybe I got a good one as well - never any problems with it. Admittedly it's only had fairly light use (shutter count less than 1 in 6 years). Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ > On 03 June 2018 at 02:18 jtainter wrote: > > > Bill wrote: > > "I'm not sure if they got everything fixed on the K5 during it's run, but in > addition to the AF issues, they had problems with spots of cement on the > sensor on early ones and buttons falling off. Apparently if you got a good > one, they were very good indeed. I wasn't so lucky." > > I guess I got lucky with my K-5. I did eventually part with in in favor of the > K-5II and IIs. I still use them when I travel. They (and the DA lenses) are > smaller and lighter than my K-1 and its lenses, and I am still very pleased > with the image quality. > > The K-5 was produced by Hoya, the II and IIs by Ricoh. The Hoya version was > notorious for cheapness. Ricoh, to their credit, fixed that. > > Joe > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
I'm still carrying my K5 after has been since I bought it when it first came out. Wish I had a memory again...(?) Only difference is it's a back up in case?? Have used it a few times in both single frame and burst mode. Image quality still surprises me. J Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2018, at 9:18 AM, jtainter wrote: > > Bill wrote: > > "I'm not sure if they got everything fixed on the K5 during it's run, but in > addition to the AF issues, they had problems with spots of cement on the > sensor on early ones and buttons falling off. Apparently if you got a good > one, they were very good indeed. I wasn't so lucky." > > I guess I got lucky with my K-5. I did eventually part with in in favor of > the K-5II and IIs. I still use them when I travel. They (and the DA lenses) > are smaller and lighter than my K-1 and its lenses, and I am still very > pleased with the image quality. > > The K-5 was produced by Hoya, the II and IIs by Ricoh. The Hoya version was > notorious for cheapness. Ricoh, to their credit, fixed that. > > Joe > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
Bill wrote: "I'm not sure if they got everything fixed on the K5 during it's run, but in addition to the AF issues, they had problems with spots of cement on the sensor on early ones and buttons falling off. Apparently if you got a good one, they were very good indeed. I wasn't so lucky." I guess I got lucky with my K-5. I did eventually part with in in favor of the K-5II and IIs. I still use them when I travel. They (and the DA lenses) are smaller and lighter than my K-1 and its lenses, and I am still very pleased with the image quality. The K-5 was produced by Hoya, the II and IIs by Ricoh. The Hoya version was notorious for cheapness. Ricoh, to their credit, fixed that. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
Congratulations to Grace! We all watched her grow up, and loved every image of it! Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > I have a good K5. Excellent high ISO. Autofocus was as good as my K7. > Grace uses the K7 now. (She graduated from 8th grade today!) > > Paul > > > On Jun 1, 2018, at 4:47 PM, Bill wrote: > > > >> On 6/1/2018 11:46 AM, Alan C wrote: > >> I used a K7 for about 4 years. I shot mostly in bright light. Good up > to ISO 400, tolerable at 800, hopeless beyond. (About the same as my > K110D!) Now I have a K5 which is OK even at 3200. Everything else seems > much the same as the K7. No electronic problems. Can't imagine why your AF > was so bad? > > > > The AF on mine was particularly colour sensitive. Depending on the > colour of the subject, it would front focus, back focus or every now and > again, would get it right. Mine was so bad that shooting exactly the same > scene outdoors, if a cloud covered the sun, the colour of the light would > change enough to knock the focus off. > > This was a known issue with the K5, in fact I recall it was the first > issue that was discovered with that camera. I recall some guy on Pentax > forums tried taking a picture of his car of some such under street light > conditions and found the camera was front focusing be several feet, when in > daylight it was fine. > > I'm not sure if they got everything fixed on the K5 during it's run, but > in addition to the AF issues, they had problems with spots of cement on the > sensor on early ones and buttons falling off. > > Apparently if you got a good one, they were very good indeed. I wasn't > so lucky. > > > > bill > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
Yes, and I didn't realize how contentedly. J Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2018, at 9:48 AM, Bill wrote: > >> On 6/1/2018 10:42 AM, Jack Davis wrote: >> Nice to know my kipping it was a good move. >> Thanks, Bill! > > I was shooting a lot of studio at the time, so the K7 was very good for me. > It ended up being a far better camera than the K5 in my hands as I got a > Friday afternoon K5 that had pretty much every electronics problem that the > thing was noted for. > The AF on my K5 was worse than useless. > You slept through the K7? > > bill > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
I have a good K5. Excellent high ISO. Autofocus was as good as my K7. Grace uses the K7 now. (She graduated from 8th grade today!) Paul > On Jun 1, 2018, at 4:47 PM, Bill wrote: > >> On 6/1/2018 11:46 AM, Alan C wrote: >> I used a K7 for about 4 years. I shot mostly in bright light. Good up to ISO >> 400, tolerable at 800, hopeless beyond. (About the same as my K110D!) Now I >> have a K5 which is OK even at 3200. Everything else seems much the same as >> the K7. No electronic problems. Can't imagine why your AF was so bad? > > The AF on mine was particularly colour sensitive. Depending on the colour of > the subject, it would front focus, back focus or every now and again, would > get it right. Mine was so bad that shooting exactly the same scene outdoors, > if a cloud covered the sun, the colour of the light would change enough to > knock the focus off. > This was a known issue with the K5, in fact I recall it was the first issue > that was discovered with that camera. I recall some guy on Pentax forums > tried taking a picture of his car of some such under street light conditions > and found the camera was front focusing be several feet, when in daylight it > was fine. > I'm not sure if they got everything fixed on the K5 during it's run, but in > addition to the AF issues, they had problems with spots of cement on the > sensor on early ones and buttons falling off. > Apparently if you got a good one, they were very good indeed. I wasn't so > lucky. > > bill > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
On 6/1/2018 11:46 AM, Alan C wrote: I used a K7 for about 4 years. I shot mostly in bright light. Good up to ISO 400, tolerable at 800, hopeless beyond. (About the same as my K110D!) Now I have a K5 which is OK even at 3200. Everything else seems much the same as the K7. No electronic problems. Can't imagine why your AF was so bad? The AF on mine was particularly colour sensitive. Depending on the colour of the subject, it would front focus, back focus or every now and again, would get it right. Mine was so bad that shooting exactly the same scene outdoors, if a cloud covered the sun, the colour of the light would change enough to knock the focus off. This was a known issue with the K5, in fact I recall it was the first issue that was discovered with that camera. I recall some guy on Pentax forums tried taking a picture of his car of some such under street light conditions and found the camera was front focusing be several feet, when in daylight it was fine. I'm not sure if they got everything fixed on the K5 during it's run, but in addition to the AF issues, they had problems with spots of cement on the sensor on early ones and buttons falling off. Apparently if you got a good one, they were very good indeed. I wasn't so lucky. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
On 6/1/2018 1:26 PM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: is the video any good on the K7? Im looking for an inexpensive backup body that has video too and the K7s sure are cheap now. 720P is OK its for web postings. Pentax has always taken it up the bum for having crappy video. It's always been OK for me, but my standards are probably lower than yours. I don't recall ever shooting any video with my K7, but I shot some with the K20, which had a similar sensor as far as output was concerned. For me they were fine. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
is the video any good on the K7? Im looking for an inexpensive backup body that has video too and the K7s sure are cheap now. 720P is OK its for web postings. jco On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 13:46:11 -0400, Alan C wrote: I used a K7 for about 4 years. I shot mostly in bright light. Good up to ISO 400, tolerable at 800, hopeless beyond. (About the same as my K110D!) Now I have a K5 which is OK even at 3200. Everything else seems much the same as the K7. No electronic problems. Can't imagine why your AF was so bad? Alan C On 06/01/2018 6:48 PM, Bill wrote: On 6/1/2018 10:42 AM, Jack Davis wrote: Nice to know my kipping it was a good move. Thanks, Bill! I was shooting a lot of studio at the time, so the K7 was very good for me. It ended up being a far better camera than the K5 in my hands as I got a Friday afternoon K5 that had pretty much every electronics problem that the thing was noted for. The AF on my K5 was worse than useless. You slept through the K7? bill --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
I used a K7 for about 4 years. I shot mostly in bright light. Good up to ISO 400, tolerable at 800, hopeless beyond. (About the same as my K110D!) Now I have a K5 which is OK even at 3200. Everything else seems much the same as the K7. No electronic problems. Can't imagine why your AF was so bad? Alan C On 06/01/2018 6:48 PM, Bill wrote: On 6/1/2018 10:42 AM, Jack Davis wrote: Nice to know my kipping it was a good move. Thanks, Bill! I was shooting a lot of studio at the time, so the K7 was very good for me. It ended up being a far better camera than the K5 in my hands as I got a Friday afternoon K5 that had pretty much every electronics problem that the thing was noted for. The AF on my K5 was worse than useless. You slept through the K7? bill --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
On 6/1/2018 10:42 AM, Jack Davis wrote: Nice to know my kipping it was a good move. Thanks, Bill! I was shooting a lot of studio at the time, so the K7 was very good for me. It ended up being a far better camera than the K5 in my hands as I got a Friday afternoon K5 that had pretty much every electronics problem that the thing was noted for. The AF on my K5 was worse than useless. You slept through the K7? bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
Nice to know my kipping it was a good move. Thanks, Bill! J Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Bill wrote: > >> On 6/1/2018 10:16 AM, Jack Davis wrote: >> OK, so I forgot about the K7..which I >> resisted. > > To me, it had the best colour of any Pentax DSLR, but it was really only good > at base ISO. It used an updated from the K20 Samsung sensor. Great at base > ISO, but it went to hell in a hurry as the ISO was increased. > > bill > >> J >> Sent from my iPhone On Jun 1, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Bill wrote: On 6/1/2018 9:23 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: what was the last top of the line Pentax DSLR before the K-5 series? >>> >>> K20D, then the K7, then the K5. >>> Do all Pentax Dslrs have some means of using AA batteries? >>> >>> Yes, but you have to buy the external battery grip and be prepared for >>> really crappy battery life. Do all pentax Dslrs have interchangable focus screens? >>> >>> The K1 does not. The APS-C ones all do. >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
At 11:23 AM 6/1/2018, J.C. O'Connell wrote: Do all Pentax Dslrs have some means of using AA batteries? The K-70 does not - it can use only the Pentax D-LI109 7.4 volt lithium ion battery. I have seen no external supply options for the K-70, and none are shown on the Ricoh site. Do all pentax Dslrs have interchangable focus screens? The K-70 does. Dale H. Cook, many years as 35mm SLR photographer, now Pentax K-70 w/ Pentax-DA 18-270mm walking- around lens or SMC Pentax-A 50mm/f2 lens -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
On 6/1/2018 10:16 AM, Jack Davis wrote: OK, so I forgot about the K7..which I resisted. To me, it had the best colour of any Pentax DSLR, but it was really only good at base ISO. It used an updated from the K20 Samsung sensor. Great at base ISO, but it went to hell in a hurry as the ISO was increased. bill J Sent from my iPhone On Jun 1, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Bill wrote: On 6/1/2018 9:23 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: what was the last top of the line Pentax DSLR before the K-5 series? K20D, then the K7, then the K5. Do all Pentax Dslrs have some means of using AA batteries? Yes, but you have to buy the external battery grip and be prepared for really crappy battery life. Do all pentax Dslrs have interchangable focus screens? The K1 does not. The APS-C ones all do. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
OK, so I forgot about the K7..which I resisted. J Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Bill wrote: > >> On 6/1/2018 9:23 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: >> what was the last top of the line Pentax DSLR before the K-5 series? > > K20D, then the K7, then the K5. > >> Do all Pentax Dslrs have some means of using AA batteries? > > Yes, but you have to buy the external battery grip and be prepared for really > crappy battery life. >> Do all pentax Dslrs have interchangable focus screens? > > The K1 does not. The APS-C ones all do. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
On 6/1/2018 9:23 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: what was the last top of the line Pentax DSLR before the K-5 series? K20D, then the K7, then the K5. Do all Pentax Dslrs have some means of using AA batteries? Yes, but you have to buy the external battery grip and be prepared for really crappy battery life. Do all pentax Dslrs have interchangable focus screens? The K1 does not. The APS-C ones all do. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR lineage / features questions
K20D ? J Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2018, at 8:23 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: > > what was the last top of the line Pentax DSLR before the K-5 series? > > Do all Pentax Dslrs have some means of using AA batteries? > > Do all pentax Dslrs have interchangable focus screens? > -- > J.C. O'Connell > hifis...@gate.net > - > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PENTAX DSLR PRICES IN SA
On 12/15/2015 8:47 AM, Alan C wrote: Look what they're asking for older S/H Pentax DSLR's in SA. There have been a spate of adverts in the last week. I've converted to US$.With std. lens unless otherwise stated. K20D 570; K200D 570; K10D (2 lens) 400; K10D 200; K100D 500 & 280; Kx (2 lens) 320; Kr 600. Mostly more than the original prices. A new K50 is 600, a new K3 ii is 1500 & a D FA 150-450 2300. Alan C Think anyone would be interested in a *ist-D w/Battery Grip & FAJ 18-35AL? I could throw in a couple of 4GB CF cards. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR memory card bus speed, theory & practice?
Larry, Some time ago, I was trying to find answers to similar questions. Unfortunately, Pentax doesn't provide (at least at that point it didn't) any specs with respect to this. So, let me share the most essential bits of information that I was able to find (and still remember). First, a few comments: 1. Note that Speed class (Class 10) specifies only the minimum speed and only for WRITING. 2. An additional classification that is somewhat complementary to theses classes is the UHS speed classes (UHS-1, and -3) https://www.sdcard.org/consumers/speed/ . They specify not only the minimum writing speed, but also the UHS mode of the SD bus. 3. Note, that you would benefit from how fast you can READ from the cards, both (a) in the camera and (b) in your card reader. 4. Also, note that SDXC, compared to SDHC also defines a difference in the file system support (exFAT). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#File_system So, when I was choosing my cards at the end of 2014 (I have k-5 iiS), but I was considering K-3, so, I had it in mind (somewhat). My conclusion: to have at least Class-10, UHS-1.[*] I don't remember for sure if K-5/K-3 support UHS-I mode, but I deemed it to be necessary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Transfer_modes I forgot what I decided was the useful writing speed cut-off (I might not have gotten that number). I vaguely remember thinking in the range of 40-60 MB/s. (Notice, unlike internet connection speed, it is megabYtes per second, hence MB, not Mb) [ Just in case: https://www.sdcard.org/consumers/speed/ says that "Speed Class and the UHS Speed Class are not compatible", but that is an ambiguous statement, as the cards include markings for both.] In any case, the latest card I bought was 64GB Samsung PRO that is labeled: SDXC, I, (1), and Class 10: http://www.adorama.com/ISGMBSG64DAM.html . This card has specs for 90 MB/s - Read, 50 MB/s write. I've been using it for 10-11 months, and have no complaints. As a matter of fact, within this time I've used my SanDisk cards only once or twice. Sorry for the lack of solid number, but I HTH, Igor Larry Colen Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:56:29 -0700 wrote: Does anyone have any specifications for the bus speed for the SD cards in our DSLR bodies? Under the rubric of Class 10 cards, different cards are sold with different data rates. My recent purchases vary from 40 to 90 MbPS. The last time I bought cards, boosting speed from 40 to 80 or 90 cost about as much as going from 32 to 64 GB. In addition to the speed to transfer the raw files from the buffer to the card, there is also the speed to process the raw files, so while the bus might in theory be able to handle 120 MbPS, the system might not work any faster with a 90M card than with an 80M card. Has anyone done any specific experimentation on where diminishing returns come into play on recent bodies (K-5, K-3 ...)? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR electronic cable release compatibitlity
Yes. On 2/28/2014 10:49 PM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: does anybody know if the electronic cable release for the istDS can be used on later model Pentax DSLRS like K10 k20 k5 k3, etc? -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR electronic cable release compatibitlity
On 3/1/2014 2:53 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: On 2/28/2014 11:43 PM, Brian Walters wrote: Quoting J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net: does anybody know if the electronic cable release for the istDS can be used on later model Pentax DSLRS like K10 k20 k5 k3, etc? Yes - I use the same cable on DS, K200D and K-5. I assume the same one will work on the K-3. Good. This means the mechanical to electronic release converter I made to use with my DS and autobellows can be used with later model DSLR bodies too. Its based on the mamiya rc402 as suggested here. What's the pinout for the rc402? Looking at the front the lettering gives me an orientation 'L' at the top 'O' at the bottom: http://tinyurl.com/mamiya-rc402 I turn it around so I can see the connection and I have 4 tiny hole to accept electrical pins. Also there are little metal tabs in the top bottom slots. I can't tell if those tabs are electrical connections or just springs meant to stiffen the plastic tabs. Like this: -Tab 'L' on top oContact oContact oContact oContact -Tab 'O' on the bottom I looked on line, and I haven't found the information. It might be on Mamiya's own site, but everything there except for the first page is in Japanese I can't read it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR electronic cable release compatibitlity
On 3/1/2014 11:19 AM, John wrote: On 3/1/2014 2:53 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: On 2/28/2014 11:43 PM, Brian Walters wrote: Quoting J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net: does anybody know if the electronic cable release for the istDS can be used on later model Pentax DSLRS like K10 k20 k5 k3, etc? Yes - I use the same cable on DS, K200D and K-5. I assume the same one will work on the K-3. Good. This means the mechanical to electronic release converter I made to use with my DS and autobellows can be used with later model DSLR bodies too. Its based on the mamiya rc402 as suggested here. What's the pinout for the rc402? Looking at the front the lettering gives me an orientation 'L' at the top 'O' at the bottom: http://tinyurl.com/mamiya-rc402 I turn it around so I can see the connection and I have 4 tiny hole to accept electrical pins. Also there are little metal tabs in the top bottom slots. I can't tell if those tabs are electrical connections or just springs meant to stiffen the plastic tabs. Like this: -Tab 'L' on top oContact oContact oContact oContact -Tab 'O' on the bottom I looked on line, and I haven't found the information. It might be on Mamiya's own site, but everything there except for the first page is in Japanese I can't read it. sorry, I dont recall the pinout and I covered the whole thing up with electrical tape to make it mechanically secure. what I do remember is I used only two wires to the o contacts, one on the end, and one right next to it. Its easy to ohm out by installing a cable release and putting a ohmmeter across the contact pins in question. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR electronic cable release compatibitlity
Quoting J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net: does anybody know if the electronic cable release for the istDS can be used on later model Pentax DSLRS like K10 k20 k5 k3, etc? Yes - I use the same cable on DS, K200D and K-5. I assume the same one will work on the K-3. -- Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR electronic cable release compatibitlity
On 2/28/2014 11:43 PM, Brian Walters wrote: Quoting J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net: does anybody know if the electronic cable release for the istDS can be used on later model Pentax DSLRS like K10 k20 k5 k3, etc? Yes - I use the same cable on DS, K200D and K-5. I assume the same one will work on the K-3. Good. This means the mechanical to electronic release converter I made to use with my DS and autobellows can be used with later model DSLR bodies too. Its based on the mamiya rc402 as suggested here. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax DSLR Shake Reduction Question - Why turn it off on whileon tripod?
Well I took some firework photos last night I forgot to turn SR off. They turned out fine. I also took this shot after the fireworks, mainly as a long exposure/noise test. Small (800x536 ~100kb) http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/Images/K10D/_IGP0733_sml.jpg Full size (3872x2592 ~1M) http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/Images/K10D/_IGP0733_lrg.jpg K10D, FA 77mm f1.8 Ltd., F5.6 @ 82 seconds, ISO 100. Sharpened slightly for web cloned out some power lines. Focusing was a bit of a guess, as I could hardly see the trees in the centre of the frame. It was supposed to be 60 seconds but my one one thousand, two one thousand, three... timing method isn't too accurate much over 20 seconds :-) Cheers, Dave On 1/15/07, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We can assume that Pentax knows that the bandwidth doesn't extend into the frequency range of the vibrations caused by mirror/shutter actions or the potentially relatively fast vibrations set up by buffeting winds etc, hence their advisory. This paper specifically states handheld vibrations. Kenneth Waller -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR Shake Reduction Question - Why turn it off on while on tripod?
On 14/01/07, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could somebody please explain the theory why the Pentax AS should be turned off while using a tripod?? I dont understand how it could hurt, and intutively it seems like It might help if the tripod isnt perfectly stable due to wind, camera mechanism vibrations, etc. It's speculative since the technical information is limited and no users to date have shared any technical test results of the Pentax SR systems response and sensitivity. The SR system is based around a set of movement detectors (gyroscopic according to link below) and an oscillating plate driven by linear motors which carries the sensor. As you would expect the system will have a limited response bandwidth which may be a due to a combination of the speed of the SR processor, movement sensors and the moving systems mass vs the motor response. We can assume that Pentax knows that the bandwidth doesn't extend into the frequency range of the vibrations caused by mirror/shutter actions or the potentially relatively fast vibrations set up by buffeting winds etc, hence their advisory. See: http://www.pentaxslr.com/files/scms_docs//PENTAX_SR_Description_091506.pdf -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR Shake Reduction Question - Why turn it off on whileon tripod?
OK, This is starting to make some sense. If the AS cannot cover the bandwidth of vibration frequencies fouund on a tripod mounted camera, then it would just not work if turned on. But there must me more to it than that because if they recommend turning it off, then the sensor is probably locked down or more stable with the AS turned off even if the vibrations are out of the working bandwidth of AS system when turned on. P.S. The comment in the Pentax document about Pentax's commitment to the over 24 million PENTAX PK lens legacy makes me laugh in light of the fact they dont even bother to read the f-stop setting on most of them ( K M series ). What a joke that is jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Digital Image Studio Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:12 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR Shake Reduction Question - Why turn it off on whileon tripod? On 14/01/07, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could somebody please explain the theory why the Pentax AS should be turned off while using a tripod?? I dont understand how it could hurt, and intutively it seems like It might help if the tripod isnt perfectly stable due to wind, camera mechanism vibrations, etc. It's speculative since the technical information is limited and no users to date have shared any technical test results of the Pentax SR systems response and sensitivity. The SR system is based around a set of movement detectors (gyroscopic according to link below) and an oscillating plate driven by linear motors which carries the sensor. As you would expect the system will have a limited response bandwidth which may be a due to a combination of the speed of the SR processor, movement sensors and the moving systems mass vs the motor response. We can assume that Pentax knows that the bandwidth doesn't extend into the frequency range of the vibrations caused by mirror/shutter actions or the potentially relatively fast vibrations set up by buffeting winds etc, hence their advisory. See: http://www.pentaxslr.com/files/scms_docs//PENTAX_SR_Description_091506.p df -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR Shake Reduction Question - Why turn it off on whileon tripod?
We can assume that Pentax knows that the bandwidth doesn't extend into the frequency range of the vibrations caused by mirror/shutter actions or the potentially relatively fast vibrations set up by buffeting winds etc, hence their advisory. This paper specifically states handheld vibrations. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR Shake Reduction Question - Why turn it off on whileon tripod? On 14/01/07, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could somebody please explain the theory why the Pentax AS should be turned off while using a tripod?? I dont understand how it could hurt, and intutively it seems like It might help if the tripod isnt perfectly stable due to wind, camera mechanism vibrations, etc. It's speculative since the technical information is limited and no users to date have shared any technical test results of the Pentax SR systems response and sensitivity. The SR system is based around a set of movement detectors (gyroscopic according to link below) and an oscillating plate driven by linear motors which carries the sensor. As you would expect the system will have a limited response bandwidth which may be a due to a combination of the speed of the SR processor, movement sensors and the moving systems mass vs the motor response. We can assume that Pentax knows that the bandwidth doesn't extend into the frequency range of the vibrations caused by mirror/shutter actions or the potentially relatively fast vibrations set up by buffeting winds etc, hence their advisory. See: http://www.pentaxslr.com/files/scms_docs//PENTAX_SR_Description_091506.pdf -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ - A valuable test, Godfrey. Interesting that with the K10D the 150x gives so little improvement over the 60x. Is the difference due to different brands of card? Or is 150x overkill for the K10D? Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
Here we have actual evidence from Godfrey. Whatever happened to idle speculation and blind prejudice, the mainstay of many a lengthy thread! All I need now is the money for the camera, I already have the 150x card Thanks Godfrey Peter On 12/13/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I decided to add the performance testing I did with the K10D to the page I did on the *ist DS bodies last July. Updated and QuickTime movies of the capture included ... you can see how the cameras' buffer size and write speed to the cards affects the distribution of sequence captures explicitly that way. http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ enjoy, Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
On Dec 13, 2006, at 1:27 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote: http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ A valuable test, Godfrey. Interesting that with the K10D the 150x gives so little improvement over the 60x. Is the difference due to different brands of card? Or is 150x overkill for the K10D? You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think 18% RAW/12% JPEG improvement is so little. Two digit percentage improvements I would deem to be significant even in a conservative evaluation. It demonstrates that the 150x card is probably close to the fastest card that will make a significant improvement in the K10D's performance, but I don't know of any faster ones to test against just yet. I would expect, given these numbers, that a 300x card would likely see the very small, single digit percentage improvement similar to the 60x vs 150x for the DS model. With 2G capacity 150x cards costing only around $43, and 45x cards costing $32, whether they're overkill or not is of little practical importance anyway. ;-) Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
LOL ... I like to think that I'm not being innovative, Peter. ;-) you're welcome. Godfrey On Dec 13, 2006, at 1:45 PM, Peter Fairweather wrote: Here we have actual evidence from Godfrey. Whatever happened to idle speculation and blind prejudice, the mainstay of many a lengthy thread! All I need now is the money for the camera, I already have the 150x card Thanks Godfrey Peter On 12/13/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I decided to add the performance testing I did with the K10D to the page I did on the *ist DS bodies last July. Updated and QuickTime movies of the capture included ... you can see how the cameras' buffer size and write speed to the cards affects the distribution of sequence captures explicitly that way. http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
Joseph Tainter wrote: http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ - A valuable test, Godfrey. Interesting that with the K10D the 150x gives so little improvement over the 60x. Is the difference due to different brands of card? Or is 150x overkill for the K10D? Joe I'd hardly call a nearly 20% difference 'so little improvement'. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
Well, we've got to remember that it's Joe making the call ;-)) Today I had a chance to play with the K10D and used both an 80X card and a 133X card. Even without measured tests and movies, it was clear that the 10D was faster with the faster card. Whether one needs the speed is another matter (I found the camera, using DNG, fast enough with the 80X card), but considering the price of cards these days, unless one is on a very tight budget, to buy less than the fastest card the camera can use makes little sense. There's also the issue of what you're used to. The 10D seemed positively supercharged compared to the DS, but after using a slower card on the 10D for a while, one might wish for a faster card. It's like microwaving a potato. The first time I did it was amazing. Now I'm anxious for the potato to cook even faster. Then there's also the matter of download and xfer time on the computer to consider. The difference I experienced between a 40X card and an 80X card was enough to convince me to _always_ get the fastest card that's affordable. Shel [Original Message] From: Adam Maas Joseph Tainter wrote: http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ - A valuable test, Godfrey. Interesting that with the K10D the 150x gives so little improvement over the 60x. Is the difference due to different brands of card? Or is 150x overkill for the K10D? I'd hardly call a nearly 20% difference 'so little improvement'. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ Thanks for that, very interesting. I just conducted a similar test (no, I don't have a movie to watch :) K10D, RAW (DNG) Test, SanDisk Extreme III 2GB SD card: a.. 75 RAW exposures, 1.25 exp per sec or 0.8 secs per exp average. a.. finish write :: ~9 seconds I'm not sure if this card is actually this much faster, or if I did something wrong... its a fairly simple test though. Looking at the timestamps, the files are from 11:36:30 through 11:37:36, which would be about right (I notice the K10D EXIF timestamp is when the file is written, not when the shot is taken) Anyway, assuming this is correct... considering this is basically a 133x card (20mb/sec), it perhaps illustrates the differences between read/write speed. Cards are often quoted in read speeds, or some combination of read/write, wehen determining the 150x. SanDisk do specify 20mb/sec read _and_ write for the extreme III. In any case, either of these results are impressive, being somewhere from 13MB/sec to 18MB/sec or something. If anyone has looked at Rob Galibraith's SD speed tests on cameras (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007), this blows away anything else out there. The D80, say, only manages RAW writing at 8.34MB/secd on the SanDisk Extreme III, and thats its fastest result. Looking down the list you'll see various 150x cards that are substantially slower... say the 'Transcend 150X 4GB', only does 5.56mb/sec, again shows the 150x isn't everything. I'd recommend the Extreme III's to anyone getting a K10D, I'm pretty damn happy with them. - Peter Loveday -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
If you did it right (yes, it is a pretty simple test) and these are the numbers, it shows that you're getting something for your money over the Transcend 150x cards. I suspected that the Transcend cards might be rated a bit optimistically. Of course, I'd like to get my hands on an Extreme III and compare doing the same test setup... Now who can I find to give me one? For evaluation purposes, of course ... ]'-) G On Dec 13, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Peter Loveday wrote: K10D, RAW (DNG) Test, SanDisk Extreme III 2GB SD card: a.. 75 RAW exposures, 1.25 exp per sec or 0.8 secs per exp average. a.. finish write :: ~9 seconds -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
Well, we've got to remember that it's Joe making the call ;-)) Shel - Shel, why do you feel the need to blurt out a statement like that? And why do you give in to the feeling? I expected, perhaps naively, that a card that is 150% faster in its nominal rating (150x vs 60x) should give something more than a 12-18% speed boost. Apparently my understanding was wrong. But nothing in my post calls for you to imply something negative about me, or would justify posting such an implication. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
Note the smiley, Joe. Others have commented on your negativity - I've stayed away from that. I was just poking a little fun at the reputation you've garnered here over the past few months as someone who's frequently finding fault. We can all learn to laugh at ourselves a bit ... Why do I give in to such things? Probably in part because I'm a sarcastic New Yorker ... it's part of my heritage and upbringing. My whole family and most of my friends are sarcastic. Sorry if you were offended. I'll put you in the don't kid around with Joe category and will never again kid around in your presence. Shel [Original Message] From: Joseph Tainter Well, we've got to remember that it's Joe making the call ;-)) Shel - Shel, why do you feel the need to blurt out a statement like that? And why do you give in to the feeling? I expected, perhaps naively, that a card that is 150% faster in its nominal rating (150x vs 60x) should give something more than a 12-18% speed boost. Apparently my understanding was wrong. But nothing in my post calls for you to imply something negative about me, or would justify posting such an implication -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR timing test page updated
On Dec 13, 2006, at 6:27 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote: http://homepage.mac.com/godders/Pentax-DS-150x-timing/ A valuable test, Godfrey. Interesting that with the K10D the 150x gives so little improvement over the 60x. Is the difference due to different brands of card? Or is 150x overkill for the K10D? You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think 18% RAW/12% JPEG improvement is so little. Two digit percentage improvements I would deem to be significant even in a conservative evaluation. I guess I would have expected something close to 150% improvement. But perhaps the manufacturers just want me to anticipate that. Total performance is more complex than that. The NNx speed rating is on reads, normally, not writes, and it might well be optimistic. Lots of bits come into play with regard to card cage and driver design as well. Sandisk Ultra II and Extreme III cards tend to read and write faster than other cards with similar rated speed. Either Sandisk is more honest or more conservative with their ratings ... take your pick. But I still think that an 18% improvement in performance is significant. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006, Digital Image Studio wrote: On static subjects a combination of image combining (can secure (1.21 jigawatts, etc, much deleted crunchy bits) to do manually but there are some really nice automation kits out there for serious work. Yow, am I the only one who finds all the digital bits of New Photography boring? I look for reasons to NOT do work at a computer, not seek them out. Sure, points and clicks can leave my LF gear in the shade, but I'd much rather be out in the shade, taking a photograph with a lovingly crafed view camera than indoors waving a mouse. Hell, the reason I bought a DSLR finally is so I could spend more time TAKING pictures and less time wasting on things like darkrooms, scanning, futzing in PS, etc. -shrug- I guess my priorities are all off. Maybe I shouldn't have given this digital revolution a shot, hey, is there room by JCO for another luddite? I want back in... ;) -- http://www.infotainment.org - more fun than a poke in your eye. http://www.eighteenpercent.com- photography and portfolio. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
On 17/10/06, gfen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 14 Oct 2006, Digital Image Studio wrote: On static subjects a combination of image combining (can secure (1.21 jigawatts, etc, much deleted crunchy bits) to do manually but there are some really nice automation kits out there for serious work. Yow, am I the only one who finds all the digital bits of New Photography boring? I look for reasons to NOT do work at a computer, not seek them out. Sure, points and clicks can leave my LF gear in the shade, but I'd much rather be out in the shade, taking a photograph with a lovingly crafed view camera than indoors waving a mouse. Hell, the reason I bought a DSLR finally is so I could spend more time TAKING pictures and less time wasting on things like darkrooms, scanning, futzing in PS, etc. -shrug- I guess my priorities are all off. Maybe I shouldn't have given this digital revolution a shot, hey, is there room by JCO for another luddite? I want back in... ;) I enjoy the process of taking a photo but I also enjoy the making of a photo. The fact is that large format photography is expensive and it's a hassle to have processed, it's also often unwieldy especially if you are also lugging about SLRs etc. With my little back pack of gear when I'm travelling I can have all my kit with me so I don't have to leave bit unattended. I can trudge up a mountain side and take macros along the way then make a honking pano at the top. It's practicality, the post processing just allows me to do a whole lot more with less kit. It's no imposition really, I actually enjoy regaining complete control over the process, in the old days I was beholden to lab techs. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
- Original Message - From: J. C. O'Connell Subject: RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet Your assumption is maximum depth of field is what is Always needed when its not. With tilts and swings You can entire offset planes in focus with selective (minimal) DOF if needed. You cant do that with photoshop After the fact. Umm, no. That is what you are presuming I mean when I say sufficient depth of field is easier to secure. The original post is intact below so you can refamiliarize yourself if you need to. I did say in my first post on the subject (this is my third, and last) that a view camera was better if the person is serious about architectural photography. I expect you just overlooked this. If you are serious about architectural photography, a view camera is better. Anyway, for a more casual approach, an APS DSLR and the tools available in Photoshop are sufficient for many people. I realize that you are not one of these people, and that as far as you are concerned, anything less than a view camera is unsuitable for architectural photography, so we can drop this one now. William Robb With the smaller format, depth of field is generally easy enough to secure in architectural work. After that it becomes a question of compromise: Is the output from the smaller format camera good enough for the intended purpose? That is something that neither you, nor I, can answer for someone else. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
JCO, It is a waste of time trying to converse with an idiot like you. I will not bother. G On Oct 14, 2006, at 2:13 AM, J. C. O'Connell wrote: You clueless. First of all there are EXTERIORS As well as interiors where you are going to Need more rise than the shift lenses for medium Format and 35mm are going to be able to offer. Secondly you are very limited on focal lengths With medium format and 35mm shift/tilt lenses. Lastly I said SERIOUS architectural photography, Which means being able to do exactly what the Customer wants, not something close ( or far from it). View camera RULE when it comes to architechure, problably More than any other genre of photography as a matter of fact Due to the much more flexible geometry of the camera itself. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 6:59 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet On Oct 13, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Inet Shopper wrote: Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco JCO: This is nonsense. Many many many architectural interior photographs are made with Hasselblad SWC cameras and other wide-field cameras that do not have tilts and shifts. I would wager that the majority of architectural shots sold to magazines are not made with view cameras, and haven't been for years. Particularly interior work. This is not to say that cameras with shift and tilt are not advantageous for architectural work. They are. But unless you are doing this kind of work as a speciality and need control on that order, yes, you need a good view camera. But I've had a couple of commissions done with the Pentax DS and DA14mm lens that is fully accepted as interior architectural work. I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? ... Tilt/shift lenses allow a limited amount of correction for this kind of work. Unfortunately, most of them are a little too long in focal length to be particularly useful for architectural work on a 16x24mm sensor camera. You're better off using a wide field lens with minimal rectilinear distortion (like the DA14) and using image processing software to do any keystone corrections required. Thanks for the inputs. Most of my picture-taking is done while travelling, so a zoom is definitely more convenient than a bagful of lenses. As for architecture, here are some examples of architecture that I photograph: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ If the link works, you can see that I don't shoot brick walls ;-) so if the wavy/barrel distortion is not too obvious, I'm OK. Normally, the limiting factor is me, not the equipment. And if the final budget dictates either the 16-45 alone, or the kit 18-55 plus one (used) fast lens, then I'm going with the latter. For the kind of travel work I see on this page (some of it quite nice...), the 16-45 will likely do quite well. The 18-55 would probably do ok too. My travel kit this year is a DA21, FA35 and FA77. Compact, light, and a nice range with good speed. I often include the DA14 as well, but was a little challenged for space on this trip. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006, J. C. O'Connell wrote: You clueless. JC I have had enough. Your language is unacceptable. Bye-bye. Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
There are only a few adapters for Canon FD series lenses and none give full functionality. Yes, adapters exist, but stop-down metering is not convenient. Plus, there is either teleconversion and light loss, or loss of infinity focus. So I will buy some lenses for the DSLR. Go for the FA35/2 AL or FA28/2.8 AL. Both are very good lenses and not too terribly expensive. They're not f/1.4, but the Pentax DSLRs are quite clean in rendering up to ISO 800 and even 1600 in a pinch ... much better than film. The thing is, when it's dark, AF might not work. I do not want to focus manually in the dark with a slow lens on the K100D's matte screen. My Canon A1's screen has both the split-image and microprism ring. With the 50/1.4 or 28/2, I have no issues at night. The K100D has a matte screen, so I would start at a disadvantage. A fast lens would be helpful. Speaking of fast lenses, the original Sigma 28/1.8 is supposed to be a good performer, and quite compact (58mm filter, 284g). The updated Macro version is larger and heavier (77mm filter, 500g). Has anyone used the pre-Macro Sigma 28/1.8? Macro is not a big deal as I have some achromatic close-up lenses which work quite well. Switching to Manual Focus turns off the focus lockout. As does AF- Continuous mode. Thanks! For quality, I much prefer the DA16-45 or FA20-35 over the kit zoom. Got it. The FA20-35 is pricey and I don't need full-frame coverage. How is the DA16-45 with architecture? Will I need to fix barrel distortion in post-processing? Is the 18-55 kit lens good enough in this respect, too? Not familiar with the Sunpak 30DX flash unit. But if it's an external sensor auto-flash, it will work the same way it does on your A1. Not sure why it needs a custom module to work that way, but ... ??? Godfrey When I set the flash for a particular distance, the custom Canon module allows the flash to change the camera aperture accordingly. This is convenient. Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
On Oct 13, 2006, at 8:26 AM, Inet Shopper wrote: Go for the FA35/2 AL or FA28/2.8 AL. Both are very good lenses and not too terribly expensive. They're not f/1.4, but the Pentax DSLRs are quite clean in rendering up to ISO 800 and even 1600 in a pinch ... much better than film. The thing is, when it's dark, AF might not work. I do not want to focus manually in the dark with a slow lens on the K100D's matte screen. My Canon A1's screen has both the split-image and microprism ring. With the 50/1.4 or 28/2, I have no issues at night. The K100D has a matte screen, so I would start at a disadvantage. A fast lens would be helpful. Personally, and many differ with me, I find a matte screen easier to focus with particularly in low light. The FA35 is quite contrasty wide open ... f/2 is quite bright enough for good focusing in low light. Matter of fact, I usually turn off AF in low light as I find it quite a bit faster and more accurate to focus manually. Even the FA20-35/4 is contrasty and easy to focus manually. I haven't tested the FA28 in such circumstances but I expect it would be much the same. Speaking of fast lenses, the original Sigma 28/1.8 is supposed to be a good performer, and quite compact (58mm filter, 284g). The updated Macro version is larger and heavier (77mm filter, 500g). Has anyone used the pre- Macro Sigma 28/1.8? Macro is not a big deal as I have some achromatic close- up lenses which work quite well. I don't buy Sigma lenses. I've never had any good experiences with them, and find their optical quality quite variable and usually unacceptable. I have no experience with the 28/1.8. For quality, I much prefer the DA16-45 or FA20-35 over the kit zoom. Got it. The FA20-35 is pricey and I don't need full-frame coverage. How is the DA16-45 with architecture? Will I need to fix barrel distortion in post-processing? Is the 18-55 kit lens good enough in this respect, too? The 18-55 has some W-shape distortions ... a good lens but not really at its best for architecture. The DA16-45 has a bit of simple barrel distortion, easy to correct. The 20-35 has less and has nicer rendering qualities. Rendering-wise, the DA16-45 is substantially nicer than the 18-55, and its constant f/4 is also a boon. Not familiar with the Sunpak 30DX flash unit. But if it's an external sensor auto-flash, it will work the same way it does on your A1. Not sure why it needs a custom module to work that way, but ... ??? When I set the flash for a particular distance, the custom Canon module allows the flash to change the camera aperture accordingly. This is convenient. Interesting. Never seen that, don't know whether the same would apply to the Pentax. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: The 18-55 has some W-shape distortions ... a good lens but not really at its best for architecture. The DA16-45 has a bit of simple barrel distortion, easy to correct. The 20-35 has less and has nicer rendering qualities. Rendering-wise, the DA16-45 is substantially nicer than the 18-55, and its constant f/4 is also a boon. I have found that the distortions shown by the DA 18-55 are easily corrected by using PT Lens, and the 18-55 is a really good performer for its price. But I am sure the 16-45 is a better lens. Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
I've used 'em both. The 16-45 is better, but the 18-55 is still a good lens for the money as you say, and a nice snapshop lens. Well worth the price ... Shel [Original Message] From: Carlos Royo I have found that the distortions shown by the DA 18-55 are easily corrected by using PT Lens, and the 18-55 is a really good performer for its price. But I am sure the 16-45 is a better lens. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
All well and good, and no contradiction to what I said. I wouldn't choose it for doing architecture, however. Between the rendering quality and the need to do rectilinear correction with PTLens, I'd find it a pain. ;-) Godfrey On Oct 13, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: I've used 'em both. The 16-45 is better, but the 18-55 is still a good lens for the money as you say, and a nice snapshop lens. Well worth the price ... I have found that the distortions shown by the DA 18-55 are easily corrected by using PT Lens, and the 18-55 is a really good performer for its price. But I am sure the 16-45 is a better lens. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: All well and good, and no contradiction to what I said. I wouldn't choose it for doing architecture, however. Between the rendering quality and the need to do rectilinear correction with PTLens, I'd find it a pain. ;-) Godfrey I agree that there is no contradiction. In fact, all the wide-to-normal or wide-to-small tele zoom lenses that I know show too much distortion for serious architecture photography. That is also the case with the 16-45, judging from the photos I have seen and user reports. But I also think that many zooms lenses are useful for that kind of photography if the photographer understands their limitations and can live with them, or is prepared to correct the shots in post processing. Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carlos Royo Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 1:52 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: All well and good, and no contradiction to what I said. I wouldn't choose it for doing architecture, however. Between the rendering quality and the need to do rectilinear correction with PTLens, I'd find it a pain. ;-) Godfrey I agree that there is no contradiction. In fact, all the wide-to-normal or wide-to-small tele zoom lenses that I know show too much distortion for serious architecture photography. That is also the case with the 16-45, judging from the photos I have seen and user reports. But I also think that many zooms lenses are useful for that kind of photography if the photographer understands their limitations and can live with them, or is prepared to correct the shots in post processing. Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? According to this page: http://www.ohse.de/uwe/articles/shift-tilt.html for Pentax K-mount cameras, there are shift and tilt/shift lenses available from: Pentax(!): SMC A 28mm f3.5 shift Schneider-Kreuznach: 28mm f2.8 shift, 35mm f4 shift (M42) Zavod Arsenal: 35mm f2.8 shift and tilt/shift, 80mm f2.8 tilt/shift Also, at: http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/pentax_cameras_lenses.htm There are 2 Russian lenses of interest - a 35mm f2.8 tilt/shift, and an 80mm f2.8 tilt/shift. So it seems all is not lost for Pentax users. The Zavod Arsenal and Russian lenses at least offer tilt/shift which should correct fully for perspective, at least within their design limits. Disclaimer: I have never used a view camera, so there may indeed be adjustments possible with a view camera, that cannot be similarly achieved with a tilt/shift lens on an SLR. I will be happy to be corrected. But anyway I guess I don't qualify as a serious architecture photographer... I'm not too concerned about perspective correction - I usually just try to hold the camera level, and I sometimes use the perspective distortion for dramatic shots. I'm more concerned about wavy/barrel distortion. In fact, all the wide-to-normal or wide-to-small tele zoom lenses that I know show too much distortion for serious architecture photography. That is also the case with the 16-45, judging from the photos I have seen and user reports. But I also think that many zooms lenses are useful for that kind of photography if the photographer understands their limitations and can live with them, or is prepared to correct the shots in post processing. Carlos Thanks for the inputs. Most of my picture-taking is done while travelling, so a zoom is definitely more convenient than a bagful of lenses. As for architecture, here are some examples of architecture that I photograph: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ If the link works, you can see that I don't shoot brick walls ;-) so if the wavy/barrel distortion is not too obvious, I'm OK. Normally, the limiting factor is me, not the equipment. And if the final budget dictates either the 16-45 alone, or the kit 18-55 plus one (used) fast lens, then I'm going with the latter. Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
Yes, you can do LIMITED tilting and shifting With these speciality lenses but view cameras Allow much more shift/tilt/swings and with essentially All lenses you mount on the cameras (provided They have enough coverage, that's up to the buyer ). Never heard of the Zovod lenses, are they any good? jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Inet Shopper Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 3:11 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? According to this page: http://www.ohse.de/uwe/articles/shift-tilt.html for Pentax K-mount cameras, there are shift and tilt/shift lenses available from: Pentax(!): SMC A 28mm f3.5 shift Schneider-Kreuznach: 28mm f2.8 shift, 35mm f4 shift (M42) Zavod Arsenal: 35mm f2.8 shift and tilt/shift, 80mm f2.8 tilt/shift Also, at: http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/pentax_cameras_lenses.htm There are 2 Russian lenses of interest - a 35mm f2.8 tilt/shift, and an 80mm f2.8 tilt/shift. So it seems all is not lost for Pentax users. The Zavod Arsenal and Russian lenses at least offer tilt/shift which should correct fully for perspective, at least within their design limits. Disclaimer: I have never used a view camera, so there may indeed be adjustments possible with a view camera, that cannot be similarly achieved with a tilt/shift lens on an SLR. I will be happy to be corrected. But anyway I guess I don't qualify as a serious architecture photographer... I'm not too concerned about perspective correction - I usually just try to hold the camera level, and I sometimes use the perspective distortion for dramatic shots. I'm more concerned about wavy/barrel distortion. In fact, all the wide-to-normal or wide-to-small tele zoom lenses that I know show too much distortion for serious architecture photography. That is also the case with the 16-45, judging from the photos I have seen and user reports. But I also think that many zooms lenses are useful for that kind of photography if the photographer understands their limitations and can live with them, or is prepared to correct the shots in post processing. Carlos Thanks for the inputs. Most of my picture-taking is done while travelling, so a zoom is definitely more convenient than a bagful of lenses. As for architecture, here are some examples of architecture that I photograph: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ If the link works, you can see that I don't shoot brick walls ;-) so if the wavy/barrel distortion is not too obvious, I'm OK. Normally, the limiting factor is me, not the equipment. And if the final budget dictates either the 16-45 alone, or the kit 18-55 plus one (used) fast lens, then I'm going with the latter. Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
You can accomplish better perspective correctin in PhotoShop than you can with the limited 35mm or MF shift lenses. In fact, you can control perspective quite nicely using the various controls available in Photoshop's Transform and Free Transform. Of course you can't come close to the resolution of the large format cameras, but with the right lensing and a bit of PS experience, you can equal the perspective control capabilities of the view camera. Paul -- Original message -- From: J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, you can do LIMITED tilting and shifting With these speciality lenses but view cameras Allow much more shift/tilt/swings and with essentially All lenses you mount on the cameras (provided They have enough coverage, that's up to the buyer ). Never heard of the Zovod lenses, are they any good? jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Inet Shopper Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 3:11 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? According to this page: http://www.ohse.de/uwe/articles/shift-tilt.html for Pentax K-mount cameras, there are shift and tilt/shift lenses available from: Pentax(!): SMC A 28mm f3.5 shift Schneider-Kreuznach: 28mm f2.8 shift, 35mm f4 shift (M42) Zavod Arsenal: 35mm f2.8 shift and tilt/shift, 80mm f2.8 tilt/shift Also, at: http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/pentax_cameras_lenses.htm There are 2 Russian lenses of interest - a 35mm f2.8 tilt/shift, and an 80mm f2.8 tilt/shift. So it seems all is not lost for Pentax users. The Zavod Arsenal and Russian lenses at least offer tilt/shift which should correct fully for perspective, at least within their design limits. Disclaimer: I have never used a view camera, so there may indeed be adjustments possible with a view camera, that cannot be similarly achieved with a tilt/shift lens on an SLR. I will be happy to be corrected. But anyway I guess I don't qualify as a serious architecture photographer... I'm not too concerned about perspective correction - I usually just try to hold the camera level, and I sometimes use the perspective distortion for dramatic shots. I'm more concerned about wavy/barrel distortion. In fact, all the wide-to-normal or wide-to-small tele zoom lenses that I know show too much distortion for serious architecture photography. That is also the case with the 16-45, judging from the photos I have seen and user reports. But I also think that many zooms lenses are useful for that kind of photography if the photographer understands their limitations and can live with them, or is prepared to correct the shots in post processing. Carlos Thanks for the inputs. Most of my picture-taking is done while travelling, so a zoom is definitely more convenient than a bagful of lenses. As for architecture, here are some examples of architecture that I photograph: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ If the link works, you can see that I don't shoot brick walls ;-) so if the wavy/barrel distortion is not too obvious, I'm OK. Normally, the limiting factor is me, not the equipment. And if the final budget dictates either the 16-45 alone, or the kit 18-55 plus one (used) fast lens, then I'm going with the latter. Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
- Original Message - From: Inet Shopper Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? Shift lenses help, and you can do a lot of perspective correction using Photoshop as well. I doubt John has much knowledge of Photoshop, since he isn't using digital. If you are serious about architectural photography, a view camera is better. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
If I am the john you are reffering to, I do use Photoshop. Not sure which John you are talking about. Photoshop can do perspective control with a loss in Resolution but it cant do what tilts and swings Do which is control plane of focus/DOF. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 4:25 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet - Original Message - From: Inet Shopper Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? Shift lenses help, and you can do a lot of perspective correction using Photoshop as well. I doubt John has much knowledge of Photoshop, since he isn't using digital. If you are serious about architectural photography, a view camera is better. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
On Oct 13, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Inet Shopper wrote: Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco JCO: This is nonsense. Many many many architectural interior photographs are made with Hasselblad SWC cameras and other wide-field cameras that do not have tilts and shifts. I would wager that the majority of architectural shots sold to magazines are not made with view cameras, and haven't been for years. Particularly interior work. This is not to say that cameras with shift and tilt are not advantageous for architectural work. They are. But unless you are doing this kind of work as a speciality and need control on that order, yes, you need a good view camera. But I've had a couple of commissions done with the Pentax DS and DA14mm lens that is fully accepted as interior architectural work. I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? ... Tilt/shift lenses allow a limited amount of correction for this kind of work. Unfortunately, most of them are a little too long in focal length to be particularly useful for architectural work on a 16x24mm sensor camera. You're better off using a wide field lens with minimal rectilinear distortion (like the DA14) and using image processing software to do any keystone corrections required. Thanks for the inputs. Most of my picture-taking is done while travelling, so a zoom is definitely more convenient than a bagful of lenses. As for architecture, here are some examples of architecture that I photograph: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ If the link works, you can see that I don't shoot brick walls ;-) so if the wavy/barrel distortion is not too obvious, I'm OK. Normally, the limiting factor is me, not the equipment. And if the final budget dictates either the 16-45 alone, or the kit 18-55 plus one (used) fast lens, then I'm going with the latter. For the kind of travel work I see on this page (some of it quite nice...), the 16-45 will likely do quite well. The 18-55 would probably do ok too. My travel kit this year is a DA21, FA35 and FA77. Compact, light, and a nice range with good speed. I often include the DA14 as well, but was a little challenged for space on this trip. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
- Original Message - From: J. C. O'Connell Subject: RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet If I am the john you are reffering to, I do use Photoshop. Not sure which John you are talking about. Photoshop can do perspective control with a loss in Resolution but it cant do what tilts and swings Do which is control plane of focus/DOF. With the smaller format, depth of field is generally easy enough to secure in architectural work. After that it becomes a question of compromise: Is the output from the smaller format camera good enough for the intended purpose? That is something that neither you, nor I, can answer for someone else. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
You clueless. First of all there are EXTERIORS As well as interiors where you are going to Need more rise than the shift lenses for medium Format and 35mm are going to be able to offer. Secondly you are very limited on focal lengths With medium format and 35mm shift/tilt lenses. Lastly I said SERIOUS architectural photography, Which means being able to do exactly what the Customer wants, not something close ( or far from it). View camera RULE when it comes to architechure, problably More than any other genre of photography as a matter of fact Due to the much more flexible geometry of the camera itself. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 6:59 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet On Oct 13, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Inet Shopper wrote: Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco JCO: This is nonsense. Many many many architectural interior photographs are made with Hasselblad SWC cameras and other wide-field cameras that do not have tilts and shifts. I would wager that the majority of architectural shots sold to magazines are not made with view cameras, and haven't been for years. Particularly interior work. This is not to say that cameras with shift and tilt are not advantageous for architectural work. They are. But unless you are doing this kind of work as a speciality and need control on that order, yes, you need a good view camera. But I've had a couple of commissions done with the Pentax DS and DA14mm lens that is fully accepted as interior architectural work. I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? ... Tilt/shift lenses allow a limited amount of correction for this kind of work. Unfortunately, most of them are a little too long in focal length to be particularly useful for architectural work on a 16x24mm sensor camera. You're better off using a wide field lens with minimal rectilinear distortion (like the DA14) and using image processing software to do any keystone corrections required. Thanks for the inputs. Most of my picture-taking is done while travelling, so a zoom is definitely more convenient than a bagful of lenses. As for architecture, here are some examples of architecture that I photograph: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ If the link works, you can see that I don't shoot brick walls ;-) so if the wavy/barrel distortion is not too obvious, I'm OK. Normally, the limiting factor is me, not the equipment. And if the final budget dictates either the 16-45 alone, or the kit 18-55 plus one (used) fast lens, then I'm going with the latter. For the kind of travel work I see on this page (some of it quite nice...), the 16-45 will likely do quite well. The 18-55 would probably do ok too. My travel kit this year is a DA21, FA35 and FA77. Compact, light, and a nice range with good speed. I often include the DA14 as well, but was a little challenged for space on this trip. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
Your assumption is maximum depth of field is what is Always needed when its not. With tilts and swings You can entire offset planes in focus with selective (minimal) DOF if needed. You cant do that with photoshop After the fact. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 8:05 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet - Original Message - From: J. C. O'Connell Subject: RE: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet If I am the john you are reffering to, I do use Photoshop. Not sure which John you are talking about. Photoshop can do perspective control with a loss in Resolution but it cant do what tilts and swings Do which is control plane of focus/DOF. With the smaller format, depth of field is generally easy enough to secure in architectural work. After that it becomes a question of compromise: Is the output from the smaller format camera good enough for the intended purpose? That is something that neither you, nor I, can answer for someone else. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
Also, for landscape work. That is how you get everything from the blades of grass in front of the camera to the mountains in the background sharp. Folks ought to read a good book on view camera techniques just so they will know what can be done, even if they have no interest in doing it themselves. A tilt shift lens gives you the movements of a press camera (front only), not those of a full view camera which has front and back movements. As for Photoshop, a kludge is better than nothing, but it ain't the real thing. Interestingly there are things you can not do with a view camera that you can easily do with 35mm/digital, and vis versa. To do a full range of photography you really need both. However most large format users are pretty much hidden from most of the public unlike the wedding and photojournalist crowd, so are not as well known. It is not simply a just matter of a bigger negative, it is a matter of control. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Inet Shopper Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet Sorry guys but you really cant do serious Architechure with any pentax cameras or Lenses because you need full camera movements That only a view camera can provide for architecture. Its amazing what you can do with a view for that. jco I thought tilt/shift lenses were designed to perform perspective correction? Shift lenses help, and you can do a lot of perspective correction using Photoshop as well. I doubt John has much knowledge of Photoshop, since he isn't using digital. If you are serious about architectural photography, a view camera is better. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide Inet
On 14/10/06, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, for landscape work. That is how you get everything from the blades of grass in front of the camera to the mountains in the background sharp. Folks ought to read a good book on view camera techniques just so they will know what can be done, even if they have no interest in doing it themselves. A tilt shift lens gives you the movements of a press camera (front only), not those of a full view camera which has front and back movements. As for Photoshop, a kludge is better than nothing, but it ain't the real thing. On static subjects a combination of image combining (can secure infinite DOF at wide open apertures if required and/or ultra-wide latitude) and multi-row image stitching of even relatively low res digi shots will even put LF in the shade now. Granted the it's tedious to do manually but there are some really nice automation kits out there for serious work. http://www.peaceriverstudios.com/pixorb/index.html http://www.roundshot-deutschland.de/english/karline_rodeon_modular.html -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:39 PM, Inet Shopper wrote: I shoot mostly landscapes and architecture, and prefer a wide-angle lens. With the compact I usually use the wide end (38mm) and with the Canon A1, the lens is usually 50/1.4 or 28/2. I also shoot at evening gatherings, and like the low light capability of both lenses. - equivalents are 35mm and 18mm. To be clear, the Canon A1 uses FD lenses, and I'm not willing to use adapters to get limited functionality on a DSLR body. There are only a few adapters for Canon FD series lenses and none give full functionality. I seem to recall the Canon adapter had optics in them that effected a 1.2x multiplication of focal length and bit of a reduction in speed. 1. Cost of 28/2 and 35/2: The A-series 28/2 and 35/2 actually seem uncommon and somewhat expensive, about US$150+/- on eBay. One A35/2 recently sold for US$375! I've also searched the German and Dutch eBay sites, plus KEH. I'm clearly not alone in wanting to use them on a Pentax DSLR. Are there any other useful sources? I live in Singapore, and the local used market is mostly Canon/Nikon. Go for the FA35/2 AL or FA28/2.8 AL. Both are very good lenses and not too terribly expensive. They're not f/1.4, but the Pentax DSLRs are quite clean in rendering up to ISO 800 and even 1600 in a pinch ... much better than film. 2. K/M Lenses: If I was to use a K/M lens, but only used it wide open in aperture priority mode, do I get fully automatic operation i.e. no need for the 2-step meter-shoot kludge? If so, then as a night lens there's no difference between the A and K/M lenses, right? Yes. 3. Focus Trap: Some posters mentioned that the shutter locks until the camera confirms focus. This is great for macrophotography, but can it be turned off? Sometimes, an out-of-focus picture beats no picture at all. I've used a Nikon D70 to cover an event before - when it couldn't focus, I had to switch to manual focus to get the shutter to trip. Switching to Manual Focus turns off the focus lockout. As does AF- Continuous mode. 4. Other general-purpose lenses: Two alternatives to the 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens are the 17-28/2.8-4 lenses offered by Tamron and Sigma. ... I don't like using anything but Pentax lenses very much. For quality, I much prefer the DA16-45 or FA20-35 over the kit zoom. 5. Flash compatibility: I understand the K100D uses a new type of flash control, P-TTL, and will not work with normal TTL flashes. I have no idea what P-TTL is. I use a Sunpak 30DX bounce/swivel automatic flash with a Canon module for my A1. I set the desired aperture on the flash, set the A1 to shutter priority at 1/60, and get satisfactory results. If I simply purchase a Pentax module (for the LX, ME, MG, MV, MV1), can I continue to shoot in the same way i.e. the flash sensor controls the cut-off? I'm not hung up on getting TTL/P-TTL flash. Not familiar with the Sunpak 30DX flash unit. But if it's an external sensor auto-flash, it will work the same way it does on your A1. Not sure why it needs a custom module to work that way, but ... ??? Finally, Pentax and Sony are currently the only way to get antishake AND a f2 or faster lens together, as the Canon and Nikon IS/VR lenses are f2.8 at most, not to mention heavy and expensive. But Canon and Nikon have the clear edge in availability of used lenses and accessories, so I'd also like to hear from members who use gear on the Canon and Nikon platforms. Please reply off-list if you feel it's not relevant to PDML. As a 30 year veteran user of Nikon SLR cameras and lenses, I know what you're saying. I prefer the Pentax lenses I've got now over what I used to have in Nikon system lenses. And even the Pentax DS body has been an excellent performer for me. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada) If you mean the 43/1.9, it's currently US$370 after rebate at BH online, while the FA 35/2 is US$300 (but out of stock). Does your Canadian store have a website? I'd like to take a look. Sigma 20/1.8. Massive, soft wide open, and expensive. OK I stand corrected. This IS a fast ultrawide lens. However, size and price rule it out for me. Yes, Auto flash works just fine, however the Pentax module is for TTL use (Your Canon doesn't do TTL at all, just Auto Aperture flash). The flash would need to have an Auto Thyristor mode with a non-dedicated shoe. It also needs to be low voltage trigger (sub-12v). -Adam So I can just buy a standard (non-dedicated) module for the flash to use it with a K100D? I believe the flash has a thyristor, as it recharges more quickly when manually set to fire at less than full power. Voltage-wise, Kevin Bjorke's strobe voltage page indicates the Sunpak 30DX puts out 4.6-10.4V, so no problem. Thanks for the comprehensive replies, by the way. Much appreciated! Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada) The Sigma's not worth the money. The Tamron is, but the SMC-DA 16-45 f4 goes for similar (or less) cost and is a better option IMHO. The 18-55 is actually decent (unlike the mediocre kit lenses from Canon and Nikon). -Adam Sorry, I just realized you meant the 40/2.8 Limited. It's tiny and not very expensive, but if I got it I'd probably still want something faster for night use. So I might as well omit it and save the money. Thanks for pointing out the 16-45/4. I'd wrongly assumed that it would be very expensive, yet it's priced like the Tamron 17-35/2.8-4. It looks like the cheap route would be the kit lens and a used manual focus 28/2 or 35/2, and the more expensive route would be the 16-45/4 with the FA 35/2. I'm aware of the Vivitar/Kiron 28/2 lenses. In fact my 28/2 in FD mount is a Kiron, and I like it very much. But Kirons in Pentax KA mount aren't cheap or common either... Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
Inet Shopper wrote: You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada) If you mean the 43/1.9, it's currently US$370 after rebate at BH online, while the FA 35/2 is US$300 (but out of stock). Does your Canadian store have a website? I'd like to take a look. No, the 40/2.8 Limited Pancake. It's $299CDN at cameracanada.com, the FA 35 is a little over $400CDN. Sigma 20/1.8. Massive, soft wide open, and expensive. OK I stand corrected. This IS a fast ultrawide lens. However, size and price rule it out for me. Yes, Auto flash works just fine, however the Pentax module is for TTL use (Your Canon doesn't do TTL at all, just Auto Aperture flash). The flash would need to have an Auto Thyristor mode with a non-dedicated shoe. It also needs to be low voltage trigger (sub-12v). -Adam So I can just buy a standard (non-dedicated) module for the flash to use it with a K100D? I believe the flash has a thyristor, as it recharges more quickly when manually set to fire at less than full power. Voltage-wise, Kevin Bjorke's strobe voltage page indicates the Sunpak 30DX puts out 4.6-10.4V, so no problem. Yes. Thanks for the comprehensive replies, by the way. Much appreciated! Benjamin Glad to help. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
Inet Shopper wrote: You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada) The Sigma's not worth the money. The Tamron is, but the SMC-DA 16-45 f4 goes for similar (or less) cost and is a better option IMHO. The 18-55 is actually decent (unlike the mediocre kit lenses from Canon and Nikon). -Adam Sorry, I just realized you meant the 40/2.8 Limited. It's tiny and not very expensive, but if I got it I'd probably still want something faster for night use. So I might as well omit it and save the money. Thanks for pointing out the 16-45/4. I'd wrongly assumed that it would be very expensive, yet it's priced like the Tamron 17-35/2.8-4. It looks like the cheap route would be the kit lens and a used manual focus 28/2 or 35/2, and the more expensive route would be the 16-45/4 with the FA 35/2. I'm aware of the Vivitar/Kiron 28/2 lenses. In fact my 28/2 in FD mount is a Kiron, and I like it very much. But Kirons in Pentax KA mount aren't cheap or common either... Benjamin The 16-45 was rather expensive for quite a while, it was reduced in price significantly early this summer. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
No actually there is a 40mm f2.8 Ltd., designed specifically for the APS format digital cameras. It's mostly an update of the old 40mm pancake lens, looks to be the same optical formula with new coatings and a lens barrel with no aperture ring. Inet Shopper wrote: You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada) If you mean the 43/1.9, it's currently US$370 after rebate at BH online, while the FA 35/2 is US$300 (but out of stock). Does your Canadian store have a website? I'd like to take a look. Sigma 20/1.8. Massive, soft wide open, and expensive. OK I stand corrected. This IS a fast ultrawide lens. However, size and price rule it out for me. Yes, Auto flash works just fine, however the Pentax module is for TTL use (Your Canon doesn't do TTL at all, just Auto Aperture flash). The flash would need to have an Auto Thyristor mode with a non-dedicated shoe. It also needs to be low voltage trigger (sub-12v). -Adam So I can just buy a standard (non-dedicated) module for the flash to use it with a K100D? I believe the flash has a thyristor, as it recharges more quickly when manually set to fire at less than full power. Voltage-wise, Kevin Bjorke's strobe voltage page indicates the Sunpak 30DX puts out 4.6-10.4V, so no problem. Thanks for the comprehensive replies, by the way. Much appreciated! Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
Inet Shopper wrote: Thanks for pointing out the 16-45/4. I'd wrongly assumed that it would be very expensive, yet it's priced like the Tamron 17-35/2.8-4. It looks like the cheap route would be the kit lens and a used manual focus 28/2 or 35/2, and the more expensive route would be the 16-45/4 with the FA 35/2. I'm aware of the Vivitar/Kiron 28/2 lenses. In fact my 28/2 in FD mount is a Kiron, and I like it very much. But Kirons in Pentax KA mount aren't cheap or common either... Besides of the FA 35 mm. 2.0 I praised in this thread some messages ago, I also have the FA 28 mm. 2.8, and it is an excellent walkaround lens with the DS and other Pentax DSLRs. I now it isn't as fast as the 28 mm. 2.0 lenses you mention, but it is AF and it is 90% as good as the FA 35. Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
On 9/10/06, Inet Shopper, discombobulated, unleashed: But Canon and Nikon have the clear edge in availability of used lenses and accessories, so I'd also like to hear from members who use gear on the Canon and Nikon platforms. H. http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/mods/eoskmount.html ;-) BTW welcome to the PDML. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
You're correct. An A lens will give you full functionality, minus autofocus. The FA 35/2 is a superb lens, and I believe the A version is optically identical. -- Original message -- From: Inet Shopper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi everyone, I'm new - been lurking for a few days. I currently use film-based equipment (Canon A1 and Rollei compact point-and-shoot), but am considering going digital. I shoot mostly landscapes and architecture, and prefer a wide-angle lens. With the compact I usually use the wide end (38mm) and with the Canon A1, the lens is usually 50/1.4 or 28/2. I also shoot at evening gatherings, and like the low light capability of both lenses. To be clear, the Canon A1 uses FD lenses, and I'm not willing to use adapters to get limited functionality on a DSLR body. I am prepared to buy a couple of lenses for the DSLR, but not too many - my funds are limited, not Limited :-) Logic and economics suggest a K100D with the 18-55 kit lens plus one A-series lens, the 28 or 35 f2 for a normal view and low-light use. My understanding as a non-Pentax user is that the A-series lens will work properly - aperture can be controlled from the body, and there is open-aperture metering. Therefore, in choosing an A-series lens and not a modern autofocus FA lens, I trade off only autofocus for cost savings. Please correct me if I'm wrong! There is currently no f2 ultrawide lens, so I can't get back my 28/2, but the 28/35 in f2 guise would give a 42/53mm normal view and be good for low-light conditions. The kit lens is already 18/3.5, so a 20/2.8 seems like overkill for a half-stop of light. Questions: 1. Cost of 28/2 and 35/2: The A-series 28/2 and 35/2 actually seem uncommon and somewhat expensive, about US$150+/- on eBay. One A35/2 recently sold for US$375! I've also searched the German and Dutch eBay sites, plus KEH. I'm clearly not alone in wanting to use them on a Pentax DSLR. Are there any other useful sources? I live in Singapore, and the local used market is mostly Canon/Nikon. 2. K/M Lenses: If I was to use a K/M lens, but only used it wide open in aperture priority mode, do I get fully automatic operation i.e. no need for the 2-step meter-shoot kludge? If so, then as a night lens there's no difference between the A and K/M lenses, right? 3. Focus Trap: Some posters mentioned that the shutter locks until the camera confirms focus. This is great for macrophotography, but can it be turned off? Sometimes, an out-of-focus picture beats no picture at all. I've used a Nikon D70 to cover an event before - when it couldn't focus, I had to switch to manual focus to get the shutter to trip. 4. Other general-purpose lenses: Two alternatives to the 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens are the 17-28/2.8-4 lenses offered by Tamron and Sigma. While a little wider and a little faster, they are full-frame lenses and so twice the size and weight of the kit lens. Are they worth the extra money and weight? Money can slowly be earned again, but I am unlikely to carry and use a lens that is too heavy, and full-frame is no advantage since I have no full-frame Pentax body. 5. Flash compatibility: I understand the K100D uses a new type of flash control, P-TTL, and will not work with normal TTL flashes. I have no idea what P-TTL is. I use a Sunpak 30DX bounce/swivel automatic flash with a Canon module for my A1. I set the desired aperture on the flash, set the A1 to shutter priority at 1/60, and get satisfactory results. If I simply purchase a Pentax module (for the LX, ME, MG, MV, MV1), can I continue to shoot in the same way i.e. the flash sensor controls the cut-off? I'm not hung up on getting TTL/P-TTL flash. Finally, Pentax and Sony are currently the only way to get antishake AND a f2 or faster lens together, as the Canon and Nikon IS/VR lenses are f2.8 at most, not to mention heavy and expensive. But Canon and Nikon have the clear edge in availability of used lenses and accessories, so I'd also like to hear from members who use gear on the Canon and Nikon platforms. Please reply off-list if you feel it's not relevant to PDML. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post, Benjamin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
Inet Shopper wrote: Hi everyone, I'm new - been lurking for a few days. I currently use film-based equipment (Canon A1 and Rollei compact point-and-shoot), but am considering going digital. I shoot mostly landscapes and architecture, and prefer a wide-angle lens. With the compact I usually use the wide end (38mm) and with the Canon A1, the lens is usually 50/1.4 or 28/2. I also shoot at evening gatherings, and like the low light capability of both lenses. To be clear, the Canon A1 uses FD lenses, and I'm not willing to use adapters to get limited functionality on a DSLR body. I am prepared to buy a couple of lenses for the DSLR, but not too many - my funds are limited, not Limited :-) You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada) Logic and economics suggest a K100D with the 18-55 kit lens plus one A-series lens, the 28 or 35 f2 for a normal view and low-light use. My understanding as a non-Pentax user is that the A-series lens will work properly - aperture can be controlled from the body, and there is open-aperture metering. Therefore, in choosing an A-series lens and not a modern autofocus FA lens, I trade off only autofocus for cost savings. Please correct me if I'm wrong! Your understanding is correct. There is currently no f2 ultrawide lens, so I can't get back my 28/2, but the 28/35 in f2 guise would give a 42/53mm normal view and be good for low-light conditions. The kit lens is already 18/3.5, so a 20/2.8 seems like overkill for a half-stop of light. Sigma 20/1.8. Massive, soft wide open, and expensive. Questions: 1. Cost of 28/2 and 35/2: The A-series 28/2 and 35/2 actually seem uncommon and somewhat expensive, about US$150+/- on eBay. One A35/2 recently sold for US$375! I've also searched the German and Dutch eBay sites, plus KEH. I'm clearly not alone in wanting to use them on a Pentax DSLR. Are there any other useful sources? I live in Singapore, and the local used market is mostly Canon/Nikon. You may want to look for the FA or F 35/2 it should go for similar money as the A. The Kiron/Vivitar 28/2 is also a good option (although it is more difficult to focus than the SMC version). 2. K/M Lenses: If I was to use a K/M lens, but only used it wide open in aperture priority mode, do I get fully automatic operation i.e. no need for the 2-step meter-shoot kludge? If so, then as a night lens there's no difference between the A and K/M lenses, right? Yes, as long as you shoot wide open, you will get full AE in Av mode. I use this regularly at night. 3. Focus Trap: Some posters mentioned that the shutter locks until the camera confirms focus. This is great for macrophotography, but can it be turned off? Sometimes, an out-of-focus picture beats no picture at all. I've used a Nikon D70 to cover an event before - when it couldn't focus, I had to switch to manual focus to get the shutter to trip. Yes, either by setting the camera to MF or AF-C (The latter only applies to AF lenses). 4. Other general-purpose lenses: Two alternatives to the 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens are the 17-28/2.8-4 lenses offered by Tamron and Sigma. While a little wider and a little faster, they are full-frame lenses and so twice the size and weight of the kit lens. Are they worth the extra money and weight? Money can slowly be earned again, but I am unlikely to carry and use a lens that is too heavy, and full-frame is no advantage since I have no full-frame Pentax body. The Sigma's not worth the money. The Tamron is, but the SMC-DA 16-45 f4 goes for similar (or less) cost and is a better option IMHO. The 18-55 is actually decent (unlike the mediocre kit lenses from Canon and Nikon). 5. Flash compatibility: I understand the K100D uses a new type of flash control, P-TTL, and will not work with normal TTL flashes. I have no idea what P-TTL is. I use a Sunpak 30DX bounce/swivel automatic flash with a Canon module for my A1. I set the desired aperture on the flash, set the A1 to shutter priority at 1/60, and get satisfactory results. If I simply purchase a Pentax module (for the LX, ME, MG, MV, MV1), can I continue to shoot in the same way i.e. the flash sensor controls the cut-off? I'm not hung up on getting TTL/P-TTL flash. Yes, Auto flash works just fine, however the Pentax module is for TTL use (Your Canon doesn't do TTL at all, just Auto Aperture flash). The flash would need to have an Auto Thyristor mode with a non-dedicated shoe. It also needs to be low voltage trigger (sub-12v). Finally, Pentax and Sony are currently the only way to get antishake AND a f2 or faster lens together, as the Canon and Nikon IS/VR lenses are f2.8 at most, not to mention heavy and expensive. But Canon and Nikon have the clear edge in availability of used lenses and accessories, so I'd also like to hear from members who use gear on the Canon and Nikon platforms. Please
Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're correct. An A lens will give you full functionality, minus autofocus. The FA 35/2 is a superb lens, and I believe the A version is optically identical. They are not the same optically. The FA 35 mm. 2.0 is a newer design, 6 elements in five groups, being one of the elements aspherical. The A 35 mm. 2.0 has 7 elements in seven groups. I agree that the FA 35 is an excellent lens. Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation
Cotty wrote: You like birds. You want to shoot some wide angle shots up close with your *ist D / Ds / Dl / K100D / K10D right next to the nest with remote operation from your position up to 100 metres (330 feet) away. How do you do it? Pocket Wizard. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cotty Sent: 18 September 2006 21:19 To: pentax list Subject: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation You like birds. You want to shoot some wide angle shots up close with your *ist D / Ds / Dl / K100D / K10D right next to the nest with remote operation from your position up to 100 metres (330 feet) away. How do you do it? http://members.shaw.ca/richardbhill/birds.html Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation
:-))) Jack --- Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cotty Sent: 18 September 2006 21:19 To: pentax list Subject: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation You like birds. You want to shoot some wide angle shots up close with your *ist D / Ds / Dl / K100D / K10D right next to the nest with remote operation from your position up to 100 metres (330 feet) away. How do you do it? http://members.shaw.ca/richardbhill/birds.html Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation
On 9/18/06, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You like birds. You want to shoot some wide angle shots up close with your *ist D / Ds / Dl / K100D / K10D right next to the nest with remote operation from your position up to 100 metres (330 feet) away. I'd build my own remote cable release. Or use the existing Pentax one, and make an extension cable. Not hard to do. You might have to use a fairly thick wire for it to work over 300 feet. I'd probably use something like Canare StarQuad microphone cable. Oh yeah, the binoculars, and bird-poop-cleaning kits are essential accessories as well. -Mat -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation
On 18/9/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: http://members.shaw.ca/richardbhill/birds.html LOL -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation
Cotty wrote: You like birds. You want to shoot some wide angle shots up close with your *ist D / Ds / Dl / K100D / K10D right next to the nest with remote operation from your position up to 100 metres (330 feet) away. How do you do it? 1. Radio remote 2. Fabricate an extra-long cable release 3. Train a squirrel to operate the shutter button -- Mark Roberts Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax DSLR Remote Operation
3. Train a squirrel to operate the shutter button Nuts to that! John Celio ;) -- http://www.neovenator.com AIM: Neopifex Hey, I'm an artist. I can do whatever I want and pretend I'm making a statement. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
On 3/3/06, John Francis, discombobulated, unleashed: The attitude we've seen so far seems far more suited to a google group, where it's more reasonable to assume that most of the members are idiots, and need to be told how to tie their shoes. As should be apparent, there are more than a few people here who know rather more about photographic and image processing software, etc., than does Roman. As such, his attempts to set himself up as an expert, carrying the light to the masses (and, astonishingly, promoting his own commercial website) doesn't sit too well. He spammed the list without so much as an excuse me. Once is a minor irritant. Twice tells me he is a prat. Of course, he could make suitable amends with a decent amount of grovelling... Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:40:45 -, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/3/06, John Francis, discombobulated, unleashed: The attitude we've seen so far seems far more suited to a google group, where it's more reasonable to assume that most of the members are idiots, and need to be told how to tie their shoes. As should be apparent, there are more than a few people here who know rather more about photographic and image processing software, etc., than does Roman. As such, his attempts to set himself up as an expert, carrying the light to the masses (and, astonishingly, promoting his own commercial website) doesn't sit too well. He spammed the list without so much as an excuse me. Once is a minor irritant. Twice tells me he is a prat. Of course, he could make suitable amends with a decent amount of grovelling... ...or beer. Let's be practical. John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
Roman, What's the point in doing that? PDML mostly deals with DSLR info already (after beer, cars and the usual OT). Besides PDML (for OT), Spotmatic group (for old stuff) and DPReview forum (for digital), do we really need another group? Dario - Original Message - From: Roman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup Hey, Would love to invite you to join googlegroup, share your DSLR information, sample photos , useful tips on digital photography, cameras, cleaning techniquest, whatever. Please see groups website on: http://groups.google.com/group/pentax-dslr Thank you. -- home http://roman.blakout.net/
RE: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
I'd rather stay in just one group (=this). I don't have that much time fooling around the net running after all different forums. I have not written a lot lately here, but I am reading all of you very carefully every morning (and along the day). But there is always room for new things for those who have the time. Antti-Pekka Antti-Pekka Virjonen Computec Oy Turku www.computec.fi -Original Message- From: Dario Bonazza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:14 PM To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup Roman, What's the point in doing that? PDML mostly deals with DSLR info already (after beer, cars and the usual OT). Besides PDML (for OT), Spotmatic group (for old stuff) and DPReview forum (for digital), do we really need another group? Dario - Original Message - From: Roman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup Hey, Would love to invite you to join googlegroup, share your DSLR information, sample photos , useful tips on digital photography, cameras, cleaning techniquest, whatever. Please see groups website on: http://groups.google.com/group/pentax-dslr Thank you. -- home http://roman.blakout.net/
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
On 3/3/06, Roman, discombobulated, unleashed: Would love to invite you to join googlegroup, share your DSLR information, sample photos , useful tips on digital photography, cameras, cleaning techniquest, whatever. Please see groups website on: http://groups.google.com/group/pentax-dslr Thank you. Go away. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
On Mar 3, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Cotty wrote: Go away. Cotty, you should join his group and continually invite their members to join the PDML. -Aaron
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
On 3/3/06, Aaron Reynolds, discombobulated, unleashed: Cotty, you should join his group and continually invite their members to join the PDML. Q.V. Groucho Marx ;-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
Yeah, Cotty, join and invite them all to the PDML. Then sit back and watch the gmail invites roll in. Man, you'll be in heaven. On 3/3/06, Aaron Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 3, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Cotty wrote: Go away. Cotty, you should join his group and continually invite their members to join the PDML. -Aaron -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- You have to hold the button down -Arnold Newman
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
Cotty wrote: On 3/3/06, Roman, discombobulated, unleashed: Would love to invite you to join googlegroup, share your DSLR information, sample photos , useful tips on digital photography, cameras, cleaning techniquest, whatever. Please see groups website on: http://groups.google.com/group/pentax-dslr Thank you. Go away. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ LOL, Cotty from time to time you really make my day! Manuel
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
We don't want Cotty here. That is the only reason he stays. grin graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Cotty wrote: On 3/3/06, Aaron Reynolds, discombobulated, unleashed: Cotty, you should join his group and continually invite their members to join the PDML. Q.V. Groucho Marx ;-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
This one time, at band camp, Roman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Would love to invite you to join googlegroup, share your DSLR information, sample photos , useful tips on digital photography, cameras, cleaning techniquest, whatever. sounds aweful /marvin Kevin -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
On 3/3/06, Manuel Magalhães, discombobulated, unleashed: LOL, Cotty from time to time you really make my day! My purpose is served. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
sounds aweful /marvin Yeah. No politics, religion, rumors, opinions ... V B G Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Kevin Waterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup This one time, at band camp, Roman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Would love to invite you to join googlegroup, share your DSLR information, sample photos , useful tips on digital photography, cameras, cleaning techniquest, whatever. sounds aweful /marvin Kevin -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
What's the point in doing that? PDML mostly deals with...beer, cars and the usual OT. Dario Go away. Cotty We don't want Cotty here. That is the only reason he stays. Graywolf. Man, you'll be in heaven. Scott My purpose is served. Cotty sounds aweful Kevin I don't have that much time fooling around Antti-Pekka -- Roman, now that you've sampled this group, are you sure you want them? Joe
Re: Pentax-DSLR googlegroup
On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 08:10:16PM -0700, Joseph Tainter wrote: Go away. Cotty On the whole, I agree with Cotty. The attitude we've seen so far seems far more suited to a google group, where it's more reasonable to assume that most of the members are idiots, and need to be told how to tie their shoes. As should be apparent, there are more than a few people here who know rather more about photographic and image processing software, etc., than does Roman. As such, his attempts to set himself up as an expert, carrying the light to the masses (and, astonishingly, promoting his own commercial website) doesn't sit too well.
Re: Pentax DSLR future
It's not ridiculous if money is an issue. Digital MF will be really expensive, and even many pros won't be able to justify it. Besides, LF film cameras existed but where not a big market. Photographers shoot what they have to and no more. One lesson of digital has been that many shot the larger format because of the lack of grain and not because of the enhanced resolution. Someone will buy Pentax's digital MF, but it will have a smaller market than its film MF did. And that may make it too small to be viable. Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/21/05 11:21 AM Dario wrote: Today, digital FF is more than enough for at least 99% of the pro market. For that reason I think of digital MF as a niche. But these kind of arguments are absurd! It they made any kind of sense we would still be driving Ford model T's. Kodachrome was good enough for 99% of all 35mm outdoor shooters but still virtually all of them switched to Velvia because it was better. The fact is that people will buy the best there is as long as it is within reasonable cost/hassle constraints. Whats good enough doesn't enter the equation. Pål
RE: Pentax DSLR future
A Hasselblad H2D with a standard HV90 view finder and 2.8/80mm lens sels for about a kit price about 26.5K + VAT, I believe. It has a 22 Mpixels (4080 x 5440 pixels) and 36.7 x 49.0 mm Ixpress sensor. A 39 p Phase one back is appr. 19K - back only. Regards Jens Jens Bladt Arkitekt MAA http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Dario Bonazza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 23. oktober 2005 00:15 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: Re: Pentax DSLR future I expect a price between 9K and 10K. Dario - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR future Most heavy user pros have already made their digital choices and sold off what they had to in order to achieve them. However, there is a large supply of Pentax 645 glass out there. As I said before, if the camera is priced to appeal to advanced amateurs and small budget pros (wedding photogs, nature shooters and magazine PJs for example), it might do very well. If it comes in at 10K, as some here have predicted, it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. Paul
Re: Pentax DSLR future
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Rob Studdert Subject: Re: Pentax DSLR future On 22 Oct 2005 at 16:36, William Robb wrote: There is a huge number of 645 lenses out there. If I was the owner of a half dozen of them, I'd seriously look at buying a digital body that could take advantage of them, no matter what other system I already had in place, providing it wasn't egregiously expensive. I just can't help think that the majority of pro-P645 shooters have either sold off their 645 kit or have the lenses lying on a shelf some place and have moved on to a current system. So really it wouldn't be all that appealing to them. The remainder of the lenses would be in the hands of amateurs who really most probably aren't going to be able to afford the damn DSLR body anyhow. That may be. I can only speak for myself, and if I had a half dozen expensive lenses sitting around, I'd be looking for some way to make that investment work for me. Those are my thoughts exactly. If the bottom line is always on their mind, why take a huge loss on moving from one system to another? I mean, if you have 10-20K invested in gear in one system, it might take 20-30k to move to a new, 35mm full frame system. That kind of money is not easy to make up in a hurry. William Robb
Re: Pentax DSLR future
On 24 Oct 2005 at 14:53, Gonz wrote: Those are my thoughts exactly. If the bottom line is always on their mind, why take a huge loss on moving from one system to another? I mean, if you have 10-20K invested in gear in one system, it might take 20-30k to move to a new, 35mm full frame system. That kind of money is not easy to make up in a hurry. The problem is that the market in used MF gear is poor so MF gear doesn't return good money but regardless the cost of a 35mm FF DSLR vs virtually any current MF DSLR (with crop factor) is significant (and the Pentax D645 won't likely sell for under US$8k on the street) A price difference of this magnitude could well account for the purchase of quite a decent set of glass for a new 35mm system. Remember that per angle of view and lens speed 35mm format lenses are far more economical. Ever compared the price of a 400/2.8 MF lens vs a 200/2.8 35mm lens? Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
