Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
They teach hate and AZTLAN. They teach that this is their land - Mexico. That is unAmerican and if I might say so, racist. What does La Raza stand for? The Race! If I as a white man was to start a group called The Race or something similar like the Aryan Nation which I denounce right here right now, I would be labeled a racist. Watch this video and tell me La Raza is not a problem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s Tell me we are not traveling full speed towards a race war? Instead of embracing the American dream these groups poison young minds which will ultimately destroy lives. This is America! I'm tired of the bellyaching and all the poor me stuff. This is the land of opportunity. Don't expect a handout and don't expect me to pay our bills. Get up off your lazy behind and make something happen. I worked midnight shift as a police officer so I could attend college during the day. It was hard but that is what it takes. You wants something don't look to the government look to your God and your Savior and get out and pay the price. This is America! If you do not like it here get out. You are dead weight and you are holding those of us of who what REAL change, back. Beleive me you have not experienced anything like a red blooded American that feels he is being wronged. We will right what is wrong with this country and that includes those who have come here illegally. I do not stand alone. The surveys say 50 - 70% of America is behind Arizona. There is a battle line being drawn. What side will you be on? If you are on the side of La Raza you will loose. This is America. If you fly the Mexican flag expect trouble. As a Christian man I believe I am to live in peace with you as much as you will allow. My Bible says in Romans 12: 8 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.. That says it is up to you. I want peace and revival in this land. If you however want trouble that is on your head, and that is what you will get. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: From: David da...@damnetwork.net Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 9:56 PM Why? Serious inquiry. From my brief reading, they don't do anything many other political groups do. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_-- --_ / | | ) \/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
As much as David would like to depict these groups equivalent to The Boy Scouts of America or similar organizations, it should be made abundantly clear what constitutes their politics. Not only do these groups freely demonstrate and organize here, but *they are supported and funded by our STATE UNIVERSITIES*. http://www.public.asu.edu/~mechanet/ http://www.public.asu.edu/~mechanet/ Wake up and smell the coffee. -jmz On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:03 AM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: They teach hate and AZTLAN. They teach that this is their land - Mexico. That is unAmerican and if I might say so, racist. What does La Raza stand for? The Race! If I as a white man was to start a group called The Race or something similar like the Aryan Nation which I denounce right here right now, I would be labeled a racist. Watch this video and tell me La Raza is not a problem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s Tell me we are not traveling full speed towards a race war? Instead of embracing the American dream these groups poison young minds which will ultimately destroy lives. This is America! I'm tired of the bellyaching and all the poor me stuff. This is the land of opportunity. Don't expect a handout and don't expect me to pay our bills. Get up off your lazy behind and make something happen. I worked midnight shift as a police officer so I could attend college during the day. It was hard but that is what it takes. You wants something don't look to the government look to your God and your Savior and get out and pay the price. This is America! If you do not like it here get out. You are dead weight and you are holding those of us of who what REAL change, back. Beleive me you have not experienced anything like a red blooded American that feels he is being wronged. We will right what is wrong with this country and that includes those who have come here illegally. I do not stand alone. The surveys say 50 - 70% of America is behind Arizona. There is a battle line being drawn. What side will you be on? If you are on the side of La Raza you will loose. This is America. If you fly the Mexican flag expect trouble. As a Christian man I believe I am to live in peace with you as much as you will allow. My Bible says in Romans 12: 8 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.. That says it is up to you. I want peace and revival in this land. If you however want trouble that is on your head, and that is what you will get. Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, David da...@damnetwork.net* wrote: From: David da...@damnetwork.net Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 9:56 PM Why? Serious inquiry. From my brief reading, they don't do anything many other political groups do. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.nethttp://mc/compose?to=da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Alex Dean a...@crackpot.org wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. sure as soon as someone gives me an adequate explanation as to why SB1070 is called racist and MEChA is funded by our state university. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
the link you sent works, but none of the links on the page... on a side note, any group can get started at ASU and receive funding. the requirements are quite low. Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Alex Dean a...@crackpot.org wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. sure as soon as someone gives me an adequate explanation as to why SB1070 is called racist and MEChA is funded by our state university. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
clearly they took down some of the content on there, knowing that they were under public scrutiny. the requirements are so low that you can receive funding even if your group is vocally declaring war on the US. Brewer is trying to get this group removed, but she was called 'racist' for removing 'ethnic studies programs' from ASU. -jmz On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: the link you sent works, but none of the links on the page... on a side note, any group can get started at ASU and receive funding. the requirements are quite low. Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Alex Dean a...@crackpot.org wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. sure as soon as someone gives me an adequate explanation as to why SB1070 is called racist and MEChA is funded by our state university. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:19, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Alex Dean a...@crackpot.org wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. sure as soon as someone gives me an adequate explanation as to why SB1070 is called racist and MEChA is funded by our state university. -jmz I don't think anyone here is qualified or in authority to address either of those issues :) I'm against state funded special interests whether it's right, left, or racist. Hopefully the current budget crisis will end funding of such groups. JD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 14:05 -0500, Alex Dean wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. obviously you don't understand that JMZ has absolutely no respect for the members of this group and somehow think that his insistent posting of his political views somehow correlates to persuasion. It doesn't persuade me to thinking anything except that they are abusive, obnoxious and irrelevant. Keith to a lesser extent. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:38 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:19, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Alex Dean a...@crackpot.org wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. sure as soon as someone gives me an adequate explanation as to why SB1070 is called racist and MEChA is funded by our state university. -jmz I don't think anyone here is qualified or in authority to address either of those issues :) I'm against state funded special interests whether it's right, left, or racist. Hopefully the current budget crisis will end funding of such groups. JD don't assume anything. There was some foul play recently regarding the organizer, Dan Smeriglio, of the June 5th event. They tried to call him a Neo Nazi. Meanwhile he is having Alan Keyes and Ted Hayes speak. I'm in touch with him and he is a supporter of Israel. -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
- Original Message - From: keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:03:19 AM Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? They teach hate and AZTLAN. They teach that this is their land - Mexico. That is unAmerican and if I might say so, racist. What does La Raza stand for? The Race! Hmmm...I keep hearing that. I also hear it stands for The Family. I guess context matters. If I as a white man was to start a group called The Race or something similar like the Aryan Nation which I denounce right here right now, I would be labeled a racist. Watch this video and tell me La Raza is not a problem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s Yup, I can say he's a problem. Tell me we are not traveling full speed towards a race war? Um...welcome to the world. There've been race wars ever since people noticed differences in appearance. Instead of embracing the American dream these groups poison young minds which will ultimately destroy lives. Much like some other groups I could name. This is America! I'm tired of the bellyaching and all the poor me stuff. This is the land of opportunity. Don't expect a handout and don't expect me to pay our bills. Get up off your lazy behind and make something happen. Wah. I worked midnight shift as a police officer so I could attend college during the day. It was hard but that is what it takes. You wants something don't look to the government look to your God and your Savior and get out and pay the price. Good for you. Except for the God part. I'm more of a belief-in-self kinda guy. This is America! If you do not like it here get out. You are dead weight and you are holding those of us of who what REAL change, back. Beleive me you have not experienced anything like a red blooded American that feels he is being wronged. We will right what is wrong with this country and that includes those who have come here illegally. I do not stand alone. The surveys say 50 - 70% of America is behind Arizona. There is a battle line being drawn. What side will you be on? Actually, those of us who wanted change are mostly getting it. We voted this guy into office...by a HUGE majority. A mandate, if you will. Also, A very large portion of the country liked slavery and the thought of black people as less than a white person. Didn't make it right. OR Constitutional. If you are on the side of La Raza you will loose. This is America. If you fly the Mexican flag expect trouble. I'm against any group whose stated core principals include racism, elitism, exclusionism, hate, intolerance, or the promotion of Windows based solutions (hows *that* for an On-topic attempt?). I'm also smart enough to realize that a few bad apples does *not* make the group. If I wasn't, I'd have to oppose most forms of religion (Church of the Subgenius excluded), the Teabaggers, most Conservative groups, some liberal groups, and, of course, anything put out by SCO. As a Christian man I believe I am to live in peace with you as much as you will allow. My Bible says in Romans 12: 8 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.. That says it is up to you. I want peace and revival in this land. If you however want trouble that is on your head, and that is what you will get. Blah, blah, blah. I don't recall Jesus (the deity, not the common spanish name) ever saying anything even *close* to that. It sounds like your intolerant religion is itching for a fight. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: From: David da...@damnetwork.net Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 9:56 PM Why? Serious inquiry. From my brief reading, they don't do anything many other political groups do. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
La Raza started as a down home reference for family, yes you are right. Today it has taken on another meaning. Ask Isabel Garcia. Yes you and a lot of other people voted in Obama. Most have remorse now that they know he lied. I'm guessing he will not run again because he is unwilling to provide proof that he legally qualifies to be president. That is another law that will come out of the next Arizona Legislature - One must provide proof they are legally qualified for the position they are running for. If not then they will not be added to the ballet. Even if he does run he will be voted out. Hopefully we will not get another Bush or Obama. Both bad if you ask me. We need REAL leadership! You say Blah, blah, blah. I don't recall Jesus (the deity, not the common spanish name) ever saying anything even *close* to that.. Read Romans 12: 8 for yourself. It is right there in the Bible. And you say It sounds like your intolerant religion is itching for a fight.. Not at all, I stated I wanted peace and revival. However I will stand my ground. I'm not looking for a fight and I will not back down either. Maybe we should switch places with Mexico. They move here and we move there. No switching after that. I'd bet in 5 years America would look like Mexico and in 10 years Mexico would look like America (a lot to accomplish). And we would have the same problems. Illegals wanting to come to the New America because it would be prospering. Why can't Mexico build a place where their people want to stay? Keith Smith --- On Tue, 5/18/10, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: From: David da...@damnetwork.net Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 1:48 PM - Original Message - From: keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:03:19 AM Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? They teach hate and AZTLAN. They teach that this is their land - Mexico. That is unAmerican and if I might say so, racist. What does La Raza stand for? The Race! Hmmm...I keep hearing that. I also hear it stands for The Family. I guess context matters. If I as a white man was to start a group called The Race or something similar like the Aryan Nation which I denounce right here right now, I would be labeled a racist. Watch this video and tell me La Raza is not a problem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s Yup, I can say he's a problem. Tell me we are not traveling full speed towards a race war? Um...welcome to the world. There've been race wars ever since people noticed differences in appearance. Instead of embracing the American dream these groups poison young minds which will ultimately destroy lives. Much like some other groups I could name. This is America! I'm tired of the bellyaching and all the poor me stuff. This is the land of opportunity. Don't expect a handout and don't expect me to pay our bills. Get up off your lazy behind and make something happen. Wah. I worked midnight shift as a police officer so I could attend college during the day. It was hard but that is what it takes. You wants something don't look to the government look to your God and your Savior and get out and pay the price. Good for you. Except for the God part. I'm more of a belief-in-self kinda guy. This is America! If you do not like it here get out. You are dead weight and you are holding those of us of who what REAL change, back. Beleive me you have not experienced anything like a red blooded American that feels he is being wronged. We will right what is wrong with this country and that includes those who have come here illegally. I do not stand alone. The surveys say 50 - 70% of America is behind Arizona. There is a battle line being drawn. What side will you be on? Actually, those of us who wanted change are mostly getting it. We voted this guy into office...by a HUGE majority. A mandate, if you will. Also, A very large portion of the country liked slavery and the thought of black people as less than a white person. Didn't make it right. OR Constitutional. If you are on the side of La Raza you will loose. This is America. If you fly the Mexican flag expect trouble. I'm against any group whose stated core principals include racism, elitism, exclusionism, hate, intolerance, or the promotion of Windows based solutions (hows *that* for an On-topic attempt?). I'm also smart enough to realize that a few bad apples does *not* make the group. If I wasn't, I'd have to oppose most forms of religion (Church of the Subgenius excluded), the Teabaggers, most Conservative groups, some liberal groups, and, of course, anything put out by SCO. As a Christian man I believe I am to live in peace with you as much as you will allow. My Bible says in Romans
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On 5/17/10 4:13 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz I have been reading through this and as someone who has an accounting background (thank you GCC), you all have not mentioned one important fact: the rate at which deflation could (or would) occur. A low rate (say under 2% would have minimal effects on the economy in the very short term, it would start making life a litte more difficult with time, but not substantially so. IF, however, the rate if deflation went up or varied wildly over the long term, yeah,, I could see the above scenarios coming to pass. The biggest problem with have in this country is a lack of personal responsibility for ones own actions (including incurring debt). we need to be a lot more responsible and we need to force the states into doing so at their level. 5 years ago, Arizona had 2 billion in excess cash set aside (call it a rainy day fund). the politicians couldn't leave well enough alone and now here we are, suffering a 2.1 billion dollar shortfall for this year alone. California was living on borrowed time ever since gray davis started as governor. Personally, I have gotten rid of all my credit cards (can't have them anyone living on a disability income), I am paying down any debts I have left (just over $3,000 at this point) and will be debt free in 3 years. I view credit as nothing more than a company selling you the money you borrow (debt) and then charging you monthly to be able to use that money. it isn't yours. its a legal scam IMHO anyway, my point is this: deflation might actually be a good thing for this country, if and only if, it can be held to a minimum level for as long as possible. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
As the Austrians point out, deflation in real terms (not inflicted by the Federal Reserve) is actually a result of the innovation of the free market and the creation of wealth (as individuals create wealth, things become more affordable... think of the cost of a brand new technology, like DDR3, as time progresses, it comes down). So, you are right, we should experience a general deflation as innovation creates wealth, making things more affordable for all. (this includes things like healthcare). Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Technomage technomage.ha...@gmail.comwrote: On 5/17/10 4:13 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz I have been reading through this and as someone who has an accounting background (thank you GCC), you all have not mentioned one important fact: the rate at which deflation could (or would) occur. A low rate (say under 2% would have minimal effects on the economy in the very short term, it would start making life a litte more difficult with time, but not substantially so. IF, however, the rate if deflation went up or varied wildly over the long term, yeah,, I could see the above scenarios coming to pass. The biggest problem with have in this country is a lack of personal responsibility for ones own actions (including incurring debt). we need to be a lot more responsible and we need to force the states into doing so at their level. 5 years ago, Arizona had 2 billion in excess cash set aside (call it a rainy day fund). the politicians couldn't leave well enough alone and now here we are, suffering a 2.1 billion dollar shortfall for this year alone. California was living on borrowed time ever since gray davis started as governor. Personally, I have gotten rid of all my credit cards (can't have them anyone living on a disability income), I am paying down any debts I have left (just over $3,000 at this point) and will be debt free in 3 years. I view credit as nothing more than a company selling you the money you borrow (debt) and then charging you monthly to be able to use that money. it isn't yours. its a legal scam IMHO anyway, my point is this: deflation might actually be a good thing for this country, if and only if, it can be held to a minimum level for as long as possible. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Deflation is generally not a bad thing for people who save or people who lend (unless the deflation forces a default). It's a bad thing for people who borrow. -jmz On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: As the Austrians point out, deflation in real terms (not inflicted by the Federal Reserve) is actually a result of the innovation of the free market and the creation of wealth (as individuals create wealth, things become more affordable... think of the cost of a brand new technology, like DDR3, as time progresses, it comes down). So, you are right, we should experience a general deflation as innovation creates wealth, making things more affordable for all. (this includes things like healthcare). Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Technomage technomage.ha...@gmail.comwrote: On 5/17/10 4:13 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz I have been reading through this and as someone who has an accounting background (thank you GCC), you all have not mentioned one important fact: the rate at which deflation could (or would) occur. A low rate (say under 2% would have minimal effects on the economy in the very short term, it would start making life a litte more difficult with time, but not substantially so. IF, however, the rate if deflation went up or varied wildly over the long term, yeah,, I could see the above scenarios coming to pass. The biggest problem with have in this country is a lack of personal responsibility for ones own actions (including incurring debt). we need to be a lot more responsible and we need to force the states into doing so at their level. 5 years ago, Arizona had 2 billion in excess cash set aside (call it a rainy day fund). the politicians couldn't leave well enough alone and now here we are, suffering a 2.1 billion dollar shortfall for this year alone. California was living on borrowed time ever since gray davis started as governor. Personally, I have gotten rid of all my credit cards (can't have them anyone living on a disability income), I am paying down any debts I have left (just over $3,000 at this point) and will be debt free in 3 years. I view credit as nothing more than a company selling you the money you borrow (debt) and then charging you monthly to be able to use that money. it isn't yours. its a legal scam IMHO anyway, my point is this: deflation might actually be a good thing for this country, if and only if, it can be held to a minimum level for as long as possible. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
The deflation with which you are referring is the reverse of devaluation of the dollar through poor monetary policy inflected upon us by the concept of central banking. And I would agree with you with the asterisk that any change of the money supply by central banking is bad for everyone, although not as bad for a group of individuals. Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Deflation is generally not a bad thing for people who save or people who lend (unless the deflation forces a default). It's a bad thing for people who borrow. -jmz On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: As the Austrians point out, deflation in real terms (not inflicted by the Federal Reserve) is actually a result of the innovation of the free market and the creation of wealth (as individuals create wealth, things become more affordable... think of the cost of a brand new technology, like DDR3, as time progresses, it comes down). So, you are right, we should experience a general deflation as innovation creates wealth, making things more affordable for all. (this includes things like healthcare). Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Technomage technomage.ha...@gmail.comwrote: On 5/17/10 4:13 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz I have been reading through this and as someone who has an accounting background (thank you GCC), you all have not mentioned one important fact: the rate at which deflation could (or would) occur. A low rate (say under 2% would have minimal effects on the economy in the very short term, it would start making life a litte more difficult with time, but not substantially so. IF, however, the rate if deflation went up or varied wildly over the long term, yeah,, I could see the above scenarios coming to pass. The biggest problem with have in this country is a lack of personal responsibility for ones own actions (including incurring debt). we need to be a lot more responsible and we need to force the states into doing so at their level. 5 years ago, Arizona had 2 billion in excess cash set aside (call it a rainy day fund). the politicians couldn't leave well enough alone and now here we are, suffering a 2.1 billion dollar shortfall for this year alone. California was living on borrowed time ever since gray davis started as governor. Personally, I have gotten rid of all my credit cards (can't have them anyone living on a disability income), I am paying down any debts I have left (just over $3,000 at this point) and will be debt free in 3 years. I view credit as nothing more than a company selling you the money you borrow (debt) and then charging you monthly to be able to use that money. it isn't yours. its a legal scam IMHO anyway, my point is this: deflation might actually be a good thing for this country, if and only if, it can be held to a minimum level for as long as possible. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:13, Technomage technomage.ha...@gmail.comwrote: The biggest problem with have in this country is a lack of personal responsibility for ones own actions (including incurring debt). we need to be a lot more responsible and we need to force the states into doing so at their level. I couldn't agree more. My wife drags her deadbeat high school friends into our lives.. they have an entitlement mentality and it dives me crazy. They can justify getting a new car when they can't afford the one they already have and when things get rough just declare bankruptcy or run from the repo man as long as they can. These people can get cars/motorcycles/etc but can't pay their mortgage, repay personal loans, or keep promises they make. We've loan them money to keep their kids from being homeless but do they change any of the behavior that got them into that position? No. Within a year they're back again with their hand out. If they were willing to live within their means they might prosper but they're always trying take more than they're willing to work for. It all falls to poor character in my opinion and a selfish attitude; I don't see it getting better. 5 years ago, Arizona had 2 billion in excess cash set aside (call it a rainy day fund). the politicians couldn't leave well enough alone and now here we are, suffering a 2.1 billion dollar shortfall for this year alone. California was living on borrowed time ever since gray davis started as governor. At least Arizona is trying to do something now. I'm sure we could make our state government 20% more efficient if we wanted to but even that would cost money. Personally, I have gotten rid of all my credit cards (can't have them anyone living on a disability income), I am paying down any debts I have left (just over $3,000 at this point) and will be debt free in 3 years. We did the same thing. Last year when my business was finally debt free I felt a tremendous sense of relief! For 8K in debt I easily paid $30K by the time it was all paid off. Until it was paid off I felt like a slave to the credit card companies. Theres nothing worse than working with clients you can't stand and doing jobs when you'd rather be sleeping but I had that monkey on my back. I view credit as nothing more than a company selling you the money you borrow (debt) and then charging you monthly to be able to use that money. it isn't yours. its a legal scam IMHO Oh but we're so addicted to instant gratification :) Credit does allow people to have things they could never save up for but credit card companies have really set up the less intelligent people in the world for failure. I doubt the new laws will change that much. The young know everything so good luck teaching them that it's better to work for what they want! anyway, my point is this: deflation might actually be a good thing for this country, if and only if, it can be held to a minimum level for as long as possible. I'd prefer deflation to inflation.. it mean the dollars in my pocket are worth more :) Inflation works the other way.. the harder I work the less my money is worth. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
This reminds me of the book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I worked at a country club to put myself through college. I'd say about 1/2 of the members group up dirt poor. So poor, 1-2 families shared run down studio apartments. They worked hard, saved, and repeated. Now they are extremely wealthy. They maintain those principles. They pay cash for cars, houses, boats. They save for things they want, working for them. Poor people remain poor because of their habits like JD lists. Its precisely why things like welfare don't work. It isn't lack of money why these people are poor. To bring this back to the original topic, the majority of illegal immigrants in this country are hard working individuals willing to work and save. The problem isn't illegal immigration. Its that immigration is illegal. resume the flame war. Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:37 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:13, Technomage technomage.ha...@gmail.comwrote: The biggest problem with have in this country is a lack of personal responsibility for ones own actions (including incurring debt). we need to be a lot more responsible and we need to force the states into doing so at their level. I couldn't agree more. My wife drags her deadbeat high school friends into our lives.. they have an entitlement mentality and it dives me crazy. They can justify getting a new car when they can't afford the one they already have and when things get rough just declare bankruptcy or run from the repo man as long as they can. These people can get cars/motorcycles/etc but can't pay their mortgage, repay personal loans, or keep promises they make. We've loan them money to keep their kids from being homeless but do they change any of the behavior that got them into that position? No. Within a year they're back again with their hand out. If they were willing to live within their means they might prosper but they're always trying take more than they're willing to work for. It all falls to poor character in my opinion and a selfish attitude; I don't see it getting better. 5 years ago, Arizona had 2 billion in excess cash set aside (call it a rainy day fund). the politicians couldn't leave well enough alone and now here we are, suffering a 2.1 billion dollar shortfall for this year alone. California was living on borrowed time ever since gray davis started as governor. At least Arizona is trying to do something now. I'm sure we could make our state government 20% more efficient if we wanted to but even that would cost money. Personally, I have gotten rid of all my credit cards (can't have them anyone living on a disability income), I am paying down any debts I have left (just over $3,000 at this point) and will be debt free in 3 years. We did the same thing. Last year when my business was finally debt free I felt a tremendous sense of relief! For 8K in debt I easily paid $30K by the time it was all paid off. Until it was paid off I felt like a slave to the credit card companies. Theres nothing worse than working with clients you can't stand and doing jobs when you'd rather be sleeping but I had that monkey on my back. I view credit as nothing more than a company selling you the money you borrow (debt) and then charging you monthly to be able to use that money. it isn't yours. its a legal scam IMHO Oh but we're so addicted to instant gratification :) Credit does allow people to have things they could never save up for but credit card companies have really set up the less intelligent people in the world for failure. I doubt the new laws will change that much. The young know everything so good luck teaching them that it's better to work for what they want! anyway, my point is this: deflation might actually be a good thing for this country, if and only if, it can be held to a minimum level for as long as possible. I'd prefer deflation to inflation.. it mean the dollars in my pocket are worth more :) Inflation works the other way.. the harder I work the less my money is worth. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Come on, give it a rest or take it off-line already! -- Donn There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. -- Dave Barry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:45, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: The problem isn't illegal immigration. Its that immigration is illegal. Sorry maybe you didn't know about this but... immigration is not illegal! Foreign born citizens become legal American citizens every single day. Its just that these particular people choose not to go through the process to become legal American citizens. The other possibility is that they're not eligible or don't want fulfill the requirements. Generally, to be eligible for naturalization you must: - Be age 18 or older; - Be a permanent resident for a certain amount of time (usually 5 years but less for some individuals); - Be a person of good moral character; - Have a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government; - Have a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States; and - Be able to read, write, and speak basic English. There are exceptions to this rule for someone who: - Is 55 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 15 years; or Is 50 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 20 years; or - Has a permanent physical or mental impairment that makes the individual unable to fulfill these requirements. Lots of documents/videos/etc here that explain it all: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/B3en.pdf --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
The issue of illegal aliens is essentially an enormous financial siphon and legal black hole that is fenced off from public criticism by the (false) pretext of racism. Many different groups use this siphon and legal black hole to their advantage. Naturally such a thing attracts all sorts of characters ranging from economic refugees to mafia drug lords to corrupt bureaucrats. It certainly does not benefit Americans at all. When you calculate cost to tax base, they don't even offer cheap labor. -jmz On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 4:00 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:45, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: The problem isn't illegal immigration. Its that immigration is illegal. Sorry maybe you didn't know about this but... immigration is not illegal! Foreign born citizens become legal American citizens every single day. Its just that these particular people choose not to go through the process to become legal American citizens. The other possibility is that they're not eligible or don't want fulfill the requirements. Generally, to be eligible for naturalization you must: - Be age 18 or older; - Be a permanent resident for a certain amount of time (usually 5 years but less for some individuals); - Be a person of good moral character; - Have a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government; - Have a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States; and - Be able to read, write, and speak basic English. There are exceptions to this rule for someone who: - Is 55 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 15 years; or Is 50 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 20 years; or - Has a permanent physical or mental impairment that makes the individual unable to fulfill these requirements. Lots of documents/videos/etc here that explain it all: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/B3en.pdf --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, 18 May 2010, Craig White wrote: On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 14:05 -0500, Alex Dean wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. obviously you don't understand that JMZ has absolutely no respect for the members of this group and somehow think that his insistent posting of his political views somehow correlates to persuasion. It doesn't persuade me to thinking anything except that they are abusive, obnoxious and irrelevant. Keith to a lesser extent. You have to remember that every group has it's crusading self centered lunatic fringe who are determined to save the world by belaboring everyone within earshot with their crackpot politics. Even Linux users. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
From: Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net [snip] You have to remember that every group has its crusading self centered lunatic fringe who are determined to save the world by belaboring everyone within earshot with their crackpot politics. Even though something that I wrote 1.5 years ago shouldn't still be relevant, it seems to be: http://crow202.org/wordpress/2008/11/oh-enough-already/ -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
you haven't immigrated here lately, have you? I am not talking about naturalization (which is not a simple checklist like you make it out to be). I am talking about merely coming to work (which is also not a simple checklist like you make it out to be). Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 4:00 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:45, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: The problem isn't illegal immigration. Its that immigration is illegal. Sorry maybe you didn't know about this but... immigration is not illegal! Foreign born citizens become legal American citizens every single day. Its just that these particular people choose not to go through the process to become legal American citizens. The other possibility is that they're not eligible or don't want fulfill the requirements. Generally, to be eligible for naturalization you must: - Be age 18 or older; - Be a permanent resident for a certain amount of time (usually 5 years but less for some individuals); - Be a person of good moral character; - Have a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government; - Have a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States; and - Be able to read, write, and speak basic English. There are exceptions to this rule for someone who: - Is 55 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 15 years; or Is 50 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 20 years; or - Has a permanent physical or mental impairment that makes the individual unable to fulfill these requirements. Lots of documents/videos/etc here that explain it all: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/B3en.pdf --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 16:09, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: The issue of illegal aliens is essentially an enormous financial siphon and legal black hole that is fenced off from public criticism by the (false) pretext of racism. I'd agree that in MOST cases it is false and no racism is involved. There are still a small minority of racist idiots out there on BOTH sides. Racists are typically not very intelligent and it is easier to blame their problems on other people than face the fact that they're the only captain of their ship in life. The media seems to do a lot of racism flame throwing. This new law is a perfect example of that. We have people like our US Attorney general giving opinion on it based only on what they've heard in the media (hasn't actually read it) which just fuels the misinformation even more. Anyone that shows up for the pro-SB1070 rally will immediately be branded as racist by the media (local and otherwise), the numbers will be under reported, and the racist idiots that show up will be the voice heard on the news. Many different groups use this siphon and legal black hole to their advantage. Naturally such a thing attracts all sorts of characters ranging from economic refugees to mafia drug lords to corrupt bureaucrats. It certainly does not benefit Americans at all. When you calculate cost to tax base, they don't even offer cheap labor. -jmz America is essentially a safety valve and money stream for Mexico. The Mexican people are a proud hard working people that are oppressed by their own corrupt government and rich families. I bet if there were a popular vote there the Mexican people would vote to become a US territory. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 16:32, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: you haven't immigrated here lately, have you? I am not talking about naturalization (which is not a simple checklist like you make it out to be). I am talking about merely coming to work (which is also not a simple checklist like you make it out to be). Eric Sorry Eric; we're in a pretty serious recession; Americans want those jobs too. You're right it isn't a simple check list. Even when emigration was easier people still had to go through an approval process. For workers that are in demand there are visa programs that allow workers to come here legally. It's all on that same site. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=838e2f8b69583210VgnVCM10082ca60aRCRDvgnextchannel=838e2f8b69583210VgnVCM10082ca60aRCRD No alien may accept employment in the United States unless they have been authorized to do so. Some aliens, such as those who have been admitted as permanent residents, granted asylum or refugee status, or admitted in work-related nonimmigrant classifications, may have employment authorization as a direct result of their immigration status. *Other aliens may need to apply individually for employment authorization.* --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
This is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have ever seen on the subject. Do you really believe these people would not rather have had the opportunty to come here legally? Are you really that out of touch with reality? On May 18, 2010 7:00 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:45, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: The problem isn't illega... Sorry maybe you didn't know about this but... immigration is not illegal! Foreign born citizens become legal American citizens every single day. Its just that these particular people choose not to go through the process to become legal American citizens. The other possibility is that they're not eligible or don't want fulfill the requirements. Generally, to be eligible for naturalization you must: - Be age 18 or older; - Be a permanent resident for a certain amount of time (usually 5 years but less for some individuals); - Be a person of good moral character; - Have a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government; - Have a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States; and - Be able to read, write, and speak basic English. There are exceptions to this rule for someone who: - Is 55 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 15 years; or Is 50 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 20 years; or - Has a permanent physical or mental impairment that makes the individual unable to fulfill these requirements. Lots of documents/videos/etc here that explain it all: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/B3en.pdf --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I am sorry guys to interrupt your drama club, but this is a plug discuss group, no politics or religion here, but if you like this topic so much, you may create a discuss group. you know one email is ok, but getting all this crap that will take you nowhere is no nice for nobody. Just let it be, and go back to LINUX thank you guys, I sorry to get in your way dona nobis pacem = Grant us peace walter On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: thats a great picture - and a pretty good post too. Eric On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Matt Graham danceswithcr...@usa.netwrote: From: Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net [snip] You have to remember that every group has its crusading self centered lunatic fringe who are determined to save the world by belaboring everyone within earshot with their crackpot politics. Even though something that I wrote 1.5 years ago shouldn't still be relevant, it seems to be: http://crow202.org/wordpress/2008/11/oh-enough-already/ -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 16:09 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote: On Tue, 18 May 2010, Craig White wrote: On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 14:05 -0500, Alex Dean wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. obviously you don't understand that JMZ has absolutely no respect for the members of this group and somehow think that his insistent posting of his political views somehow correlates to persuasion. It doesn't persuade me to thinking anything except that they are abusive, obnoxious and irrelevant. Keith to a lesser extent. You have to remember that every group has it's crusading self centered lunatic fringe who are determined to save the world by belaboring everyone within earshot with their crackpot politics. Even Linux users. :::sigh::: I suppose so - it's pointless to engage them too which is why I have stayed out. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 16:57, Matt Iavarone matt.iavar...@gmail.comwrote: This is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have ever seen on the subject. Do you really believe these people would not rather have had the opportunty to come here legally? Are you really that out of touch with reality? I appreciate your comment but I disagree naturally :) Sure they'd love to be US citizens but they choose not to go through the process. They likely chose to come here illegally because *it's easier*, they didn't have the money to file the paperwork (whoever lured them here illegally should have sponsored them and paid it), or fulfill the requirements (such as speaking English proficiently), or wait to be approved. It is a slap in the face to the millions of Mexican Americans that came here legally and followed the rules *just ask any of them (I have).* I'm a god father to children in two different such families with extended branches of non-legal family members. I've seen this issue from both sides. Sure I feel sorry for them and I'd probably do the same thing in their circumstance but as soon as I was here I'd start the process to become a legal citizen. Of the extended families I've seen with 1/2 or more illegal citizens many of them started out illegal but became legal citizens in the amnesty in the 80s, others were born here after their parents came here illegally, and the rest are still breaking the law. Just the fact that they are here illegally fuels more illegal activity. The ones that aren't here legally get fake/stolen IDs and Social security cards in order to work. Many join gangs, steal cars, sell drugs, and conduct other illegal activity to make money. The ones that have been convicted of a crime will never be allowed to be US citizens. That was all in LA but I'm sure the same thing happens here. If they had come here legally I doubt they'd be doing any of that as they're otherwise good people. It's natural that they don't want this new law enforced; if half of my family was here illegally I wouldn't want it enforced either. It's very sad that many of the people that are here illegally have been here since they were small children and despite the fact that they were born in Mexico it would be a foreign country to them if they returned. If their parents had become naturalized US citizens they also would be Us citizens as long as they were under 18. It's not their fault that their parents brought them here illegally but it's also doesn't change that they must take measures to become a legal citizen if they wish to stay here. I hope enforcement of this new law will prompt many here illegally to become legal American citizens (I believe they already are doing that) and for these large political groups currently fighting it to put up the money, people, and other resources help them through that process. Think about it for a minute and you'll realize that we actually need more laws like this to change the status quo and to stop the exploitation of these great people. JD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
(OT) Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
At 04:57 PM 5/18/2010, you wrote: This is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have ever seen on the subject. Do you really believe these people would not rather have had the opportunty to come here legally? Are you really that out of touch with reality? Of course they would! And they are working hard at getting open borders, too! They even teach it in some schools - can you say La Roza? I think PBS was filing in Tucson when Huppenthal was visiting, and had to explain some facts to the class.I will ask him if he has a link to ita picture is worth 1,000 words At least 20% of the illegals would not be allowed to enter due to their criminal history. And if you think it is just Mexicans or Central Americans crossing, you should educated yourself. Have you ever sat near the border and watched them cross at night? I have. Have you ever helped clean up the 'lay-up' areas where they dump their laptop cases, now empty of drugs, then change their clothes and move North? I have. Look, I have a lot of respect for those who pay the coyotes to walk them across the border (have you seen it where it is 3 strands of barbed wire, with trails clear as day where they cross?) to make a better life for themselves.but they are still breaking the law. Sorry, but if you want more legal immigration, change the law, but stop crying for amnesty for law-breakers and shouting raciest for those of us who want the laws enforced. It has nothing to do with ethnicity, but of law. lyle On May 18, 2010 7:00 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:45, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: The problem isn't illega... Sorry maybe you didn't know about this but... immigration is not illegal! Foreign born citizens become legal American citizens every single day. Its just that these particular people choose not to go through the process to become legal American citizens. The other possibility is that they're not eligible or don't want fulfill the requirements. Generally, to be eligible for naturalization you must: Be age 18 or older; Be a permanent resident for a certain amount of time (usually 5 years but less for some individuals); Be a person of good moral character; Have a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government; Have a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States; and Be able to read, write, and speak basic English. There are exceptions to this rule for someone who: Is 55 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 15 years; or Is 50 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 20 years; or Has a permanent physical or mental impairment that makes the individual unable to fulfill these requirements. Lots of documents/videos/etc here that explain it all: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/B3en.pdf --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Again, you are showing your ignorance. If you enter without inspection, you cannot apply for a visa or change your status. You have to go back to your native country, subject to a ban of up to 10 years, and then apply and wait, and of course pay through the nose with non existant funds. On May 18, 2010 9:04 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 16:57, Matt Iavarone matt.iavar...@gmail.com wrote: This is perhaps t... I appreciate your comment but I disagree naturally :) Sure they'd love to be US citizens but they choose not to go through the process. They likely chose to come here illegally because *it's easier*, they didn't have the money to file the paperwork (whoever lured them here illegally should have sponsored them and paid it), or fulfill the requirements (such as speaking English proficiently), or wait to be approved. It is a slap in the face to the millions of Mexican Americans that came here legally and followed the rules *just ask any of them (I have).* I'm a god father to children in two different such families with extended branches of non-legal family members. I've seen this issue from both sides. Sure I feel sorry for them and I'd probably do the same thing in their circumstance but as soon as I was here I'd start the process to become a legal citizen. Of the extended families I've seen with 1/2 or more illegal citizens many of them started out illegal but became legal citizens in the amnesty in the 80s, others were born here after their parents came here illegally, and the rest are still breaking the law. Just the fact that they are here illegally fuels more illegal activity. The ones that aren't here legally get fake/stolen IDs and Social security cards in order to work. Many join gangs, steal cars, sell drugs, and conduct other illegal activity to make money. The ones that have been convicted of a crime will never be allowed to be US citizens. That was all in LA but I'm sure the same thing happens here. If they had come here legally I doubt they'd be doing any of that as they're otherwise good people. It's natural that they don't want this new law enforced; if half of my family was here illegally I wouldn't want it enforced either. It's very sad that many of the people that are here illegally have been here since they were small children and despite the fact that they were born in Mexico it would be a foreign country to them if they returned. If their parents had become naturalized US citizens they also would be Us citizens as long as they were under 18. It's not their fault that their parents brought them here illegally but it's also doesn't change that they must take measures to become a legal citizen if they wish to stay here. I hope enforcement of this new law will prompt many here illegally to become legal American citizens (I believe they already are doing that) and for these large political groups currently fighting it to put up the money, people, and other resources help them through that process. Think about it for a minute and you'll realize that we actually need more laws like this to change the status quo and to stop the exploitation of these great people. JD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: (OT) Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Good Job! Keith Smith --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Lyle Tuttle l.tut...@cox.net wrote: From: Lyle Tuttle l.tut...@cox.net Subject: (OT) Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 6:44 PM At 04:57 PM 5/18/2010, you wrote: This is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have ever seen on the subject. Do you really believe these people would not rather have had the opportunty to come here legally? Are you really that out of touch with reality? Of course they would! And they are working hard at getting open borders, too! They even teach it in some schools - can you say La Roza? I think PBS was filing in Tucson when Huppenthal was visiting, and had to explain some facts to the class.I will ask him if he has a link to ita picture is worth 1,000 words At least 20% of the illegals would not be allowed to enter due to their criminal history. And if you think it is just Mexicans or Central Americans crossing, you should educated yourself. Have you ever sat near the border and watched them cross at night? I have. Have you ever helped clean up the 'lay-up' areas where they dump their laptop cases, now empty of drugs, then change their clothes and move North? I have. Look, I have a lot of respect for those who pay the coyotes to walk them across the border (have you seen it where it is 3 strands of barbed wire, with trails clear as day where they cross?) to make a better life for themselves.but they are still breaking the law. Sorry, but if you want more legal immigration, change the law, but stop crying for amnesty for law-breakers and shouting raciest for those of us who want the laws enforced. It has nothing to do with ethnicity, but of law. lyle On May 18, 2010 7:00 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 15:45, Eric Cope eric.c...@gmail.com wrote: The problem isn't illega... Sorry maybe you didn't know about this but... immigration is not illegal! Foreign born citizens become legal American citizens every single day. Its just that these particular people choose not to go through the process to become legal American citizens. The other possibility is that they're not eligible or don't want fulfill the requirements. Generally, to be eligible for naturalization you must: Be age 18 or older; Be a permanent resident for a certain amount of time (usually 5 years but less for some individuals); Be a person of good moral character; Have a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government; Have a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States; and Be able to read, write, and speak basic English. There are exceptions to this rule for someone who: Is 55 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 15 years; or Is 50 years old and has been a permanent resident for at least 20 years; or Has a permanent physical or mental impairment that makes the individual unable to fulfill these requirements. Lots of documents/videos/etc here that explain it all: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/B3en.pdf --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Wait a minute. There are reports that is cost $2500 to pay the coyote to bring them here. $2500 in nothing to sneeze at. There is a lot more to this story than we know. This is huge. Keith Smith --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Matt Iavarone matt.iavar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Matt Iavarone matt.iavar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 6:46 PM Again, you are showing your ignorance. If you enter without inspection, you cannot apply for a visa or change your status. You have to go back to your native country, subject to a ban of up to 10 years, and then apply and wait, and of course pay through the nose with non existant funds. On May 18, 2010 9:04 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 16:57, Matt Iavarone matt.iavar...@gmail.com wrote: This is perhaps t...I appreciate your comment but I disagree naturally :) Sure they'd love to be US citizens but they choose not to go through the process. They likely chose to come here illegally because it's easier, they didn't have the money to file the paperwork (whoever lured them here illegally should have sponsored them and paid it), or fulfill the requirements (such as speaking English proficiently), or wait to be approved. It is a slap in the face to the millions of Mexican Americans that came here legally and followed the rules just ask any of them (I have). I'm a god father to children in two different such families with extended branches of non-legal family members. I've seen this issue from both sides. Sure I feel sorry for them and I'd probably do the same thing in their circumstance but as soon as I was here I'd start the process to become a legal citizen. Of the extended families I've seen with 1/2 or more illegal citizens many of them started out illegal but became legal citizens in the amnesty in the 80s, others were born here after their parents came here illegally, and the rest are still breaking the law. Just the fact that they are here illegally fuels more illegal activity. The ones that aren't here legally get fake/stolen IDs and Social security cards in order to work. Many join gangs, steal cars, sell drugs, and conduct other illegal activity to make money. The ones that have been convicted of a crime will never be allowed to be US citizens. That was all in LA but I'm sure the same thing happens here. If they had come here legally I doubt they'd be doing any of that as they're otherwise good people. It's natural that they don't want this new law enforced; if half of my family was here illegally I wouldn't want it enforced either. It's very sad that many of the people that are here illegally have been here since they were small children and despite the fact that they were born in Mexico it would be a foreign country to them if they returned. If their parents had become naturalized US citizens they also would be Us citizens as long as they were under 18. It's not their fault that their parents brought them here illegally but it's also doesn't change that they must take measures to become a legal citizen if they wish to stay here. I hope enforcement of this new law will prompt many here illegally to become legal American citizens (I believe they already are doing that) and for these large political groups currently fighting it to put up the money, people, and other resources help them through that process. Think about it for a minute and you'll realize that we actually need more laws like this to change the status quo and to stop the exploitation of these great people. JD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 18:46, Matt Iavarone matt.iavar...@gmail.comwrote: Again, you are showing your ignorance. If you enter without inspection, you cannot apply for a visa or change your status. You have to go back to your native country, subject to a ban of up to 10 years, and then apply and wait, and of course pay through the nose with non existant funds. Right.. thats part of the penalty of coming here illegally. I didn't say it would be easy. Companies that are luring them here have the money. Though if they paid those fees then it would be cheaper to pay Americans to do those jobs instead of exploiting people from Mexico. So you're saying that since it's 'hard' then we should be ok with anyone breaking the law as long as it's easier than following the law? If a company offers them a job they can get a green card to work here legally: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=daa2a6c515083210VgnVCM10082ca60aRCRDvgnextchannel=daa2a6c515083210VgnVCM10082ca60aRCRD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On May 18, 2010, at 2:19 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Alex Dean a...@crackpot.org wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. sure as soon as someone gives me an adequate explanation as to why SB1070 is called racist and MEChA is funded by our state university. -jmz I think you've made it quite clear you don't believe *any* adequate explanation of either thing exists. So what are we do to? This thread has run its course. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
due to repeated inappropriate use of this list, all posts relating to the apple boycott will be filtered to trash. if some members fail to respect the other members of this list, and if the managers of this list fail to take appropriate action, i can and will. Craig White wrote: On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 14:05 -0500, Alex Dean wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. obviously you don't understand that JMZ has absolutely no respect for the members of this group and somehow think that his insistent posting of his political views somehow correlates to persuasion. It doesn't persuade me to thinking anything except that they are abusive, obnoxious and irrelevant. Keith to a lesser extent. Craig --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
--- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
do the job the federal PLUG government wont do... jmz On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Jim fa...@cox.net wrote: due to repeated inappropriate use of this list, all posts relating to the apple boycott will be filtered to trash. if some members fail to respect the other members of this list, and if the managers of this list fail to take appropriate action, i can and will. Craig White wrote: On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 14:05 -0500, Alex Dean wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Wake up and smell the coffee. This coffee doesn't smell anything like linux. Can this please be ended? This thread has run its course. obviously you don't understand that JMZ has absolutely no respect for the members of this group and somehow think that his insistent posting of his political views somehow correlates to persuasion. It doesn't persuade me to thinking anything except that they are abusive, obnoxious and irrelevant. Keith to a lesser extent. Craig --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss sphar...@gmail.com wrote: And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical conclusion no one can buy anything. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque nadimho...@gmail.com wrote: The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the hardware is mostly based in california? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Kurt Granroth kurt+plug-disc...@granroth.comkurt%2bplug-disc...@granroth.com Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48 To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. What does any of this have to do with Apple? --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Exactly. That's why I'm boycotting all GM products. GM is in the same state as Ford and Ford assembles quite a few of their cars in Mexico. Mexico, as we all know, objects to the new AZ immigration law. On 05/17/2010 12:55 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss sphar...@gmail.com mailto:sphar...@gmail.com wrote: And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical conclusion no one can buy anything. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque nadimho...@gmail.com mailto:nadimho...@gmail.com wrote: The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the hardware is mostly based in california? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Kurt Granroth kurt+plug-disc...@granroth.com mailto:kurt%2bplug-disc...@granroth.com Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48 To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us mailto:plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. What does any of this have to do with Apple? --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 12:55 PM Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss sphar...@gmail.com wrote: And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical conclusion no one can buy anything. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque nadimho...@gmail.com wrote: The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the hardware is mostly based in california? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Kurt Granroth kurt+plug-disc...@granroth.com Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48 To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. What does any of this have to do with Apple? -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
well outsourcing is viable if the dollar has overwhelming purchasing power in the target country. This could change sooner rather than later. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:35 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 12:55 PM Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss sphar...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=sphar...@gmail.com wrote: And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical conclusion no one can buy anything. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque nadimho...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=nadimho...@gmail.com wrote: The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the hardware is mostly based in california? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Kurt Granroth kurt+plug-disc...@granroth.comhttp://mc/compose?to=kurt%2bplug-disc...@granroth.com Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48 To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. What does any of this have to do with Apple? -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Joshua Zeidner wrote: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Does anyone else find this ludicrous? -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I do. So far i find it petty and silly, because so much of their core is Dependant on AZ resources and companies. and responding in knid would be the same.. My apple boycott has nothing to do with LA/Cali being silly and petty and everything to do with the fact that apple keeps doing things that make my skin crawl On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote: Joshua Zeidner wrote: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Does anyone else find this ludicrous? -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:01 PM, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back This is how they want it to be viewed, as if outsourcing is inevitable and natural progression. It's anything but that. These trade agreements and the price differentials that make it possible are very much structured by our policy (including military). We give a lot of direct foreign aid to India- why, if they are simultaneously outbidding us in the new international job market? Tell me, as foreign countries assume just about every white collar job imaginable, what are we going to be doing exactly? I think there is the tendency to buy the story from the main stream media. It might seem comfortable to accept the dominant story for the short term, but it suggests many more long term problems. Big problems. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Stephen cryptwo...@gmail.com wrote: I do. So far i find it petty and silly, because so much of their core is Dependant on AZ resources and companies. and responding in knid would be the same.. My apple boycott has nothing to do with LA/Cali being silly and petty and everything to do with the fact that apple keeps doing things that make my skin crawl Well I think its part of the greater program. California is desperate to prove the viability of their technology sector, and the recent shenanigans with Apple were perhaps their last ditch effort to prove to the world that California has some kind of advantage in technology production. It seems scary things are in store for California. Regarding LA/Cali, they are very much damaging AZ with their recent attempts to smear the entire state. I expect more of this kind of garbage for their leadership there, who refuse to represent the middle class and offer excuse after excuse. In general both Apple and Microsoft will continue to get pricier and more legally cumbersome, making Linux more and more attractive. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/17/san-diego-faces-medicine-arizona-residents-cancel-travel-following-boycott/ -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote: Joshua Zeidner wrote: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Does anyone else find this ludicrous? -- -Eric 'shubes' -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 15:27, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:01 PM, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back This is how they want it to be viewed, as if outsourcing is inevitable and natural progression. It's anything but that. These trade agreements and the price differentials that make it possible are very much structured by our policy (including military). We give a lot of direct foreign aid to India- why, if they are simultaneously outbidding us in the new international job market? Tell me, as foreign countries assume just about every white collar job imaginable, what are we going to be doing exactly? I think there is the tendency to buy the story from the main stream media. It might seem comfortable to accept the dominant story for the short term, but it suggests many more long term problems. Big problems. -jmz Theres an old saying.. you get what you pay for when you go with the lowest bidder. I've never seen a case where outsourcing saved company money in the long term. What they save in labor costs they pay for in communication issues and missed deadlines. I've witnessed a huge job slide during my life time. We've lost meat packing, textile, hospitality, construction, plumbing, electrical, agriculture jobs, and a lot more lower level jobs when our government allowed illegal immigrants to stay here unchecked which pushed unskilled Americans out of those jobs. We've lost manufacturing jobs when companies move out of the country. We've lost high tech jobs when they've been outsourced to companies in other countries. We've host high tech jobs by in inflow of H1B's that live here (that companies say they can't survive without) while our white collar unemployment rate climbs. Add on top the most expensive education in the world and you're right.. Big Problems. Eventually many generations from now big business will run out of people to exploit and we can be on a level playing field... or robots will be doing those jobs. To answer your question... haven't you seen Wallee?? We're all going to end up having robots do every conceivable job and lay around like gelatin blobs all day until we're unable to even walk :) Regarding Boycotting.. Any state, company, or other entity that boycotts Arizona businesses for whatever reason will not receive my business. That includes weekend trips to San Diego, Mexico, etc. JD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I agree with most of what you say below, but I think here lies the wishful thinking. This thing is not sustainable even for a few years more. California is *about to default on its debt*... if you think this is the time to sit back and admire your 401k statement, think again. But you're absolutely right, our economy has been gutted. Time to stop making excuses and claiming its 'inevitable'. Eventually the new 'marketing class' will even be out of work. No more bubbles to move to, no more inflated asset classes. What do you think we will all be doing in the future? America has to produce something other than green pieces of paper. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:48 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: Theres an old saying.. you get what you pay for when you go with the lowest bidder. I've never seen a case where outsourcing saved company money in the long term. What they save in labor costs they pay for in communication issues and missed deadlines. I've witnessed a huge job slide during my life time. We've lost meat packing, textile, hospitality, construction, plumbing, electrical, agriculture jobs, and a lot more lower level jobs when our government allowed illegal immigrants to stay here unchecked which pushed unskilled Americans out of those jobs. We've lost manufacturing jobs when companies move out of the country. We've lost high tech jobs when they've been outsourced to companies in other countries. We've host high tech jobs by in inflow of H1B's that live here (that companies say they can't survive without) while our white collar unemployment rate climbs. Add on top the most expensive education in the world and you're right.. Big Problems. Eventually many generations from now big business will run out of people to exploit and we can be on a level playing field... or robots will be doing those jobs. To answer your question... haven't you seen Wallee?? We're all going to end up having robots do every conceivable job and lay around like gelatin blobs all day until we're unable to even walk :) Regarding Boycotting.. Any state, company, or other entity that boycotts Arizona businesses for whatever reason will not receive my business. That includes weekend trips to San Diego, Mexico, etc. JD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt. Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by. -jmz - On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com* wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation. We need to deflate. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt. Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by. -jmz - On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation. We need to deflate. Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt. Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by. -jmz - On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.comhttp://mc/compose?to=klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.comhttp://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com * wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.comhttp://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
We are definitely in a pickle. Maybe it is not as pure as just this simple one item however if my tax burden was reduced by 25% then I would be able to live on 25% less. Isn't that a deflation? The national debt is a real problem. We need to get control of our country and where it is going! Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:13 PM you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation. We need to deflate. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt. Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by. -jmz - On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
So what would you do if you were in charge? Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:16 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? herrold, earlier: This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back Deflation relative to what? Gold? The CHF? The JPY? The EUR? Why should a loss in purchasing power of a unit amount of one currency affect non-lockstep linked currencies at all? Bretton Woods ended those days Prediction of the path financial markets will take appear to be a multi factor, non-linear problem, with path dependencies. Anyone saying they _know_ otherwise should be encouraged to play against you in a markets simulation where you run a true random strategy. If they can consistently articulate a durable strategy that produces above market gains, follow it What if AZ were the first mover in a economic game where it restricted non-documented guest workers and TX and FL followed suit, but NM and CA did not. Where will budget and employment crises continue longer? Opinons are cheap; horse races are held regularly to settle differences of opinion as to which of a collection of horses can run the fastest. One problem with the study of economics, and behavioural economics, is that there is no 'experimental lab'; and 'repeatable starting conditions' repetition of history, to settle arguments like this. -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation. We need to deflate. If one reduces taxes (I assume here, you mean the net effective Federla ones), the federal deficit goes up faster, and the feds need to borrow more to fund its payment obligations. This sucks funds away from the private sector, who then need to 'outbid' the feds for business borrowing. Bidding up rates to but (here, rent the use of money) the use right of same asset sounds like price increases with no change in the underlying. That is asset price inflation I dont ses the causal link you are suggesting exists to cause a deflation. -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:16 PM, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? herrold, earlier: This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back Deflation relative to what? Gold? The CHF? The JPY? The EUR? Why should a loss in purchasing power of a unit amount of one currency affect non-lockstep linked currencies at all? Bretton Woods ended those days Prediction of the path financial markets will take appear to be a multi factor, non-linear problem, with path dependencies. Anyone saying they _know_ otherwise should be encouraged to play against you in a markets simulation where you run a true random strategy. If they can consistently articulate a durable strategy that produces above market gains, follow it What if AZ were the first mover in a economic game where it restricted non-documented guest workers and TX and FL followed suit, but NM and CA did not. Where will budget and employment crises continue longer? I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm. It poses a huge threat to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be highly beneficial to our local economy. It's much better to be employing tax paying American citizens. Add to that the related problems of crime, drugs, etc. its a clear win for Arizona. They don't want a domino effect happening. It's utterly ridiculous to be paying out so much in unemployment while also paying social service subsidies to non-Americans who work the jobs the unemployed would have. Gov. Arnold's solution to the problem: cut all welfare. If I were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I would be utterly furious. California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we keep doing what we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok. Actually, we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is worth more). -jmz Opinons are cheap; horse races are held regularly to settle differences of opinion as to which of a collection of horses can run the fastest. One problem with the study of economics, and behavioural economics, is that there is no 'experimental lab'; and 'repeatable starting conditions' repetition of history, to settle arguments like this. -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Thats not really deflation... you have to consider purchasing power overseas, etc. which is a function of money supply, interest rates, and other factors. That's just reducing size of government, which I'm in favor of. Real deflation is simply not possible. I think we bought a one way ticket to financial disaster I'm sad to say. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:18 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: We are definitely in a pickle. Maybe it is not as pure as just this simple one item however if my tax burden was reduced by 25% then I would be able to live on 25% less. Isn't that a deflation? The national debt is a real problem. We need to get control of our country and where it is going! Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:13 PM you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.comhttp://mc/compose?to=klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation. We need to deflate. Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=jjzeid...@gmail.com * wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt. Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by. -jmz - On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.comhttp://mc/compose?to=klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.comhttp://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com * wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.comhttp://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.ushttp://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back -- Russ herrold --- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: So what would you do if you were in charge? Negative agenda don't resonate with voters, so these need to be 'dressed up' as positives, but I wont sugar coat it here Not suggest that protectionism (here, a boycott) is anything but a distorion of a market based economy Remove 'too big to fail' guarantees, explicit and implicit, from the economic system, and move to a market based economy Not lend money on no security into Western Europe and allow the Greece socialist experiment reform itself without my intervention Not 'juice the stock market' to make people reading their 401k statements feel 'happy' at the expense of eating the heart out of the country's future Not have liability caps on offshore drilling operations Call 'bullsh*t' when people who have not read, or are not intellectionally honest about SB 1270 call it racist or anti-immigrant Vote out and work effectively to remove from influnce people in and out of public office who hide behind lies I am not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, but much they have long proposed simply makes sense standing alone -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
BTW, everyone there is going to be a big rally on June 5th ( also another on the 12th) at the AZ Capitol. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ http://www.phoenixrally.com/ It is reported that there will be over 10,000 people there. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:34 PM, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: So what would you do if you were in charge? Negative agenda don't resonate with voters, so these need to be 'dressed up' as positives, but I wont sugar coat it here Not suggest that protectionism (here, a boycott) is anything but a distorion of a market based economy Remove 'too big to fail' guarantees, explicit and implicit, from the economic system, and move to a market based economy Not lend money on no security into Western Europe and allow the Greece socialist experiment reform itself without my intervention Not 'juice the stock market' to make people reading their 401k statements feel 'happy' at the expense of eating the heart out of the country's future Not have liability caps on offshore drilling operations Call 'bullsh*t' when people who have not read, or are not intellectionally honest about SB 1270 call it racist or anti-immigrant Vote out and work effectively to remove from influnce people in and out of public office who hide behind lies I am not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, but much they have long proposed simply makes sense standing alone -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I was not taking into consideration our national debt. If we did not have that and we could shrink government by 50% then we could live on 25% less. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:23 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation. We need to deflate. If one reduces taxes (I assume here, you mean the net effective Federla ones), the federal deficit goes up faster, and the feds need to borrow more to fund its payment obligations. This sucks funds away from the private sector, who then need to 'outbid' the feds for business borrowing. Bidding up rates to but (here, rent the use of money) the use right of same asset sounds like price increases with no change in the underlying. That is asset price inflation I dont ses the causal link you are suggesting exists to cause a deflation. -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I'm thinking it is. If I need $30 an hour to live and I am now, through reduced taxes, able to make it on $22.50 an hour isn't that deflation? I know that is a far cry from the $5/hr Indian programmer, however all things considered maybe that is all it takes. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:27 PM Thats not really deflation... you have to consider purchasing power overseas, etc. which is a function of money supply, interest rates, and other factors. That's just reducing size of government, which I'm in favor of. Real deflation is simply not possible. I think we bought a one way ticket to financial disaster I'm sad to say. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:18 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: We are definitely in a pickle. Maybe it is not as pure as just this simple one item however if my tax burden was reduced by 25% then I would be able to live on 25% less. Isn't that a deflation? The national debt is a real problem. We need to get control of our country and where it is going! Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:13 PM you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial deflation would break us. Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that debt harder to pay. Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous. eg. What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week? Massive default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc. I would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either financially or politically). Most likely they will just print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation. We need to deflate. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt. Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by. -jmz - On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation? Wouldn't that help? Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void. What do you base this on? earlier, Joshua Zeidner: Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do it right back to them. Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway. They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work overseas. The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back -- Russ herrold --- -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 16:24 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote: I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm. It poses a huge threat to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be highly beneficial to our local economy. It's much better to be employing tax paying American citizens. Add to that the related problems of crime, drugs, etc. its a clear win for Arizona. They don't want a domino effect happening. It's utterly ridiculous to be paying out so much in unemployment while also paying social service subsidies to non-Americans who work the jobs the unemployed would have. Gov. Arnold's solution to the problem: cut all welfare. If I were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I would be utterly furious. California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we keep doing what we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok. Actually, we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is worth more). I guess I don't understand what any of this has to do with Linux and why it's being discussed except to provide a barometer of people's ability to analyze what has been happening and of course their political views. I would prefer that this entire thread just die. FTR - there's been a war on drugs for 40+ years and it hasn't stopped it. In fact, it's much worse today than ever. A huge number of these so called 'illegals' have left the country, there is no work. Check out all of the 'For Rent' apartments in traditionally Mexican areas - they can't give them away. The problem Arizona has is mostly a perceptual problem because of clowns like Sheriff Joe, Andy Thomas and others who use their power poorly and thus the rest of the country is over-reacting to Arizona's over reaction but the perceptual problem is that the police in Arizona will use this new law to justify profiling and anyone who understands things like DWB understands the problems with profiling. It's not just California and Arizona that are disintegrating - it's the entire country because big business has seized control and the money they can toss around to manipulate politicians, media, laws, etc. have made a complete mess of everything. The truth is that prosperity in America has always been built on the backs of cheap labor and chasing people back to Mexico will do little to bring prosperity to America. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Okay, I agree. I would add volumes of more granular rules. For starters I would remove the special retirement and health care for our congress. Move them to an HMO and 401k. Add a recall system and a requirement that they meet with the people multiple times a year and with the state legislature multiple times a year. Make congress accountable. Put into effect a balanced budget requirement for the federal government within 24 months. Beef up our military and give then hefty pay increases and pay extra pay associated with their specialty. A person in finance, who eats hot chow and spends most of his/her time in a nicer place, does not rate as much as the infantry, field artillery, tanks, and other in the field in the enemies face type of military occupation. I'd like to see some military occupations receive up to 50% of there base pay because of the job they have. On top of this I would reduce the pay rate of most government employees to the equal amount paid to non-government employees. I's also remove many laws on the books. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: From: R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:34 PM On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote: So what would you do if you were in charge? Negative agenda don't resonate with voters, so these need to be 'dressed up' as positives, but I wont sugar coat it here Not suggest that protectionism (here, a boycott) is anything but a distorion of a market based economy Remove 'too big to fail' guarantees, explicit and implicit, from the economic system, and move to a market based economy Not lend money on no security into Western Europe and allow the Greece socialist experiment reform itself without my intervention Not 'juice the stock market' to make people reading their 401k statements feel 'happy' at the expense of eating the heart out of the country's future Not have liability caps on offshore drilling operations Call 'bullsh*t' when people who have not read, or are not intellectionally honest about SB 1270 call it racist or anti-immigrant Vote out and work effectively to remove from influnce people in and out of public office who hide behind lies I am not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, but much they have long proposed simply makes sense standing alone -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I would not say Sheriff Joe is a clown. He is dealing with an area that has been reported to the the kidnap capital of the world. Most of those being kidnapped are illegals. Some are tortured and murdered. Our Sheriff has a touch job. If more commanders of law departments were like him we might have a better handle on things. If you don't want anything to do with Joe then don't break the law. I don't see how he is taking advantage, he is doing what the people want. Now Phil Gordan is another story. I would agree with your assessment with big business buying the media and the politicians. Solution: make our politicians accountable. The Tucson City Council wanted to play hard ball with the citizens by cutting a large number of officers and fire fighters. They changed their mind after a recall petition was filed. We just have to be diligent and stay diligent. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: From: Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:04 PM On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 16:24 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote: I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm. It poses a huge threat to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be highly beneficial to our local economy. It's much better to be employing tax paying American citizens. Add to that the related problems of crime, drugs, etc. its a clear win for Arizona. They don't want a domino effect happening. It's utterly ridiculous to be paying out so much in unemployment while also paying social service subsidies to non-Americans who work the jobs the unemployed would have. Gov. Arnold's solution to the problem: cut all welfare. If I were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I would be utterly furious. California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we keep doing what we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok. Actually, we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is worth more). I guess I don't understand what any of this has to do with Linux and why it's being discussed except to provide a barometer of people's ability to analyze what has been happening and of course their political views. I would prefer that this entire thread just die. FTR - there's been a war on drugs for 40+ years and it hasn't stopped it. In fact, it's much worse today than ever. A huge number of these so called 'illegals' have left the country, there is no work. Check out all of the 'For Rent' apartments in traditionally Mexican areas - they can't give them away. The problem Arizona has is mostly a perceptual problem because of clowns like Sheriff Joe, Andy Thomas and others who use their power poorly and thus the rest of the country is over-reacting to Arizona's over reaction but the perceptual problem is that the police in Arizona will use this new law to justify profiling and anyone who understands things like DWB understands the problems with profiling. It's not just California and Arizona that are disintegrating - it's the entire country because big business has seized control and the money they can toss around to manipulate politicians, media, laws, etc. have made a complete mess of everything. The truth is that prosperity in America has always been built on the backs of cheap labor and chasing people back to Mexico will do little to bring prosperity to America. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:26 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: I would not say Sheriff Joe is a clown. He is dealing with an area that has been reported to the the kidnap capital of the world. Most of those being kidnapped are illegals. Some are tortured and murdered. Our Sheriff has a touch job. If more commanders of law departments were like him we might have a better handle on things. If you don't want anything to do with Joe then don't break the law. I don't see how he is taking advantage, he is doing what the people want. Now Phil Gordan is another story. Gordan is done. He knows that. The issue is we have to make sure they don't put another idiot in his place. Don't know how many of you live in the city of Phoenix, but things are about to get interesting to say the least. There is a very good chance that we will get something other than a corporate shill this time. -jmz I would agree with your assessment with big business buying the media and the politicians.Solution: make our politicians accountable. The Tucson City Council wanted to play hard ball with the citizens by cutting a large number of officers and fire fighters. They changed their mind after a recall petition was filed. We just have to be diligent and stay diligent. Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com* wrote: From: Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:04 PM On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 16:24 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote: I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm. It poses a huge threat to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be highly beneficial to our local economy. It's much better to be employing tax paying American citizens. Add to that the related problems of crime, drugs, etc. its a clear win for Arizona. They don't want a domino effect happening. It's utterly ridiculous to be paying out so much in unemployment while also paying social service subsidies to non-Americans who work the jobs the unemployed would have. Gov. Arnold's solution to the problem: cut all welfare. If I were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I would be utterly furious. California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we keep doing what we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok. Actually, we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is worth more). I guess I don't understand what any of this has to do with Linux and why it's being discussed except to provide a barometer of people's ability to analyze what has been happening and of course their political views. I would prefer that this entire thread just die. FTR - there's been a war on drugs for 40+ years and it hasn't stopped it. In fact, it's much worse today than ever. A huge number of these so called 'illegals' have left the country, there is no work. Check out all of the 'For Rent' apartments in traditionally Mexican areas - they can't give them away. The problem Arizona has is mostly a perceptual problem because of clowns like Sheriff Joe, Andy Thomas and others who use their power poorly and thus the rest of the country is over-reacting to Arizona's over reaction but the perceptual problem is that the police in Arizona will use this new law to justify profiling and anyone who understands things like DWB understands the problems with profiling. It's not just California and Arizona that are disintegrating - it's the entire country because big business has seized control and the money they can toss around to manipulate politicians, media, laws, etc. have made a complete mess of everything. The truth is that prosperity in America has always been built on the backs of cheap labor and chasing people back to Mexico will do little to bring prosperity to America. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I would urge EVERYONE, even if you're in the outer realms of Arizona (probably means even more to you then) to come to this. I spoke to some organizers and they are busing in people from other states. The whole country is coming to this thing. When is the last time you've even seen your state capitol I was down there the other day when Al Sharpton payed us a visit, there were people waving a USSR flag. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:32 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do with Linux anymore. Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail -Original Message- From: j...@actionline.com Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56 To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
this is coming from someone who stated that he does not find the actions of this mob to be objectionable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmez3J4nIwfeature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmez3J4nIwfeature=related -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:40 PM, huerta...@gmail.com wrote: It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do with Linux anymore. Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail -Original Message- From: j...@actionline.com Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56 To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Yes sign the petition. However Washington is not listening. I have to drive 45 minutes to get to the capital and I will be at the rally. If you care be there! Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, j...@actionline.com j...@actionline.com wrote: From: j...@actionline.com j...@actionline.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:32 PM This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
And they reported there were 4000 people there. I was there and I think it was 500 - 1000 people in protest of HB1070 the night Al Sharpton came to Phoenix. If we truly get 10,000 people on the 5th that will be history. History is being made in your backyard. We are one of the most conservative states in the US and we have taken a stand. There will be 10 or more states by this time next year. Bring your camcorder and record history. Put your video onto YouTube.com. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:39 PM I would urge EVERYONE, even if you're in the outer realms of Arizona (probably means even more to you then) to come to this. I spoke to some organizers and they are busing in people from other states. The whole country is coming to this thing. When is the last time you've even seen your state capitol I was down there the other day when Al Sharpton payed us a visit, there were people waving a USSR flag. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:32 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Spouting broken logic is something I can tolerate, but putting words in my mouth is something that I won't. As a libertarian, I don't like mob mentalities in general is something I am very much against, especially when it leads to violence. I said specifically that I was against laws that are detrimental to federalism and fundamental rights to privacy. Source: http://huertanix.tumblr.com/post/552777872/this-seriously-went-on-for-like-two-days Some of us have more important things to do than play internet superman, so if you want the PLUG mailing list to be your playground, then by all means, take it. Print this email out and stick it on your fridge with a gold star and glow proudly at what you've accomplished on a linux mailing list. The rest of the world has shit to do. Ubsubscried, .dh On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: this is coming from someone who stated that he does not find the actions of this mob to be objectionable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmez3J4nIwfeature=related -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:40 PM, huerta...@gmail.com wrote: It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do with Linux anymore. Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail -Original Message- From: j...@actionline.com Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56 To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- [.dh] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
and at least half of the people at the Sharpton rally were professional protesters and organizers who certainly were not from here. They told me that Arizona is really part of Mexico and I am standing on their land. I kid you not, they not only believe this, but they actually preach this philosophy. Regarding 10 more states, yes they will try to stop similar legislation and try to turn the entire country into California. Do you want your state to be broke and telling the federal government you will have riots if you don't get a loan? this stuff is serious business. If we have a bad situation here you can be sure that your property value will plummet. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:03 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: And they reported there were 4000 people there. I was there and I think it was 500 - 1000 people in protest of HB1070 the night Al Sharpton came to Phoenix. If we truly get 10,000 people on the 5th that will be history. History is being made in your backyard. We are one of the most conservative states in the US and we have taken a stand. There will be 10 or more states by this time next year. Bring your camcorder and record history. Put your video onto YouTube.com. Keith Smith --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:39 PM I would urge EVERYONE, even if you're in the outer realms of Arizona (probably means even more to you then) to come to this. I spoke to some organizers and they are busing in people from other states. The whole country is coming to this thing. When is the last time you've even seen your state capitol I was down there the other day when Al Sharpton payed us a visit, there were people waving a USSR flag. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:32 PM, j...@actionline.comhttp://mc/compose?to=...@actionline.com wrote: This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
David, I met Andrea Garcia at the rally, she seemed very concerned about my privacy rights. She assured me that shes a conservative, but shes 'new to the political scene'. What a great time to start your conservative activism and working hard to protect the privacy of the people who are attacking police officers. Thanks for your patriotism, David. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:11 PM, David Huerta huerta...@gmail.com wrote: Spouting broken logic is something I can tolerate, but putting words in my mouth is something that I won't. As a libertarian, I don't like mob mentalities in general is something I am very much against, especially when it leads to violence. I said specifically that I was against laws that are detrimental to federalism and fundamental rights to privacy. Source: http://huertanix.tumblr.com/post/552777872/this-seriously-went-on-for-like-two-days Some of us have more important things to do than play internet superman, so if you want the PLUG mailing list to be your playground, then by all means, take it. Print this email out and stick it on your fridge with a gold star and glow proudly at what you've accomplished on a linux mailing list. The rest of the world has shit to do. Ubsubscried, .dh On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: this is coming from someone who stated that he does not find the actions of this mob to be objectionable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmez3J4nIwfeature=related -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:40 PM, huerta...@gmail.com wrote: It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do with Linux anymore. Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail -Original Message- From: j...@actionline.com Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56 To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- [.dh] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On May 17, 2010, at 5:32 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is Off Topic. http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the nine years I've lived in Arizona. I hope everyone on this list will forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign this petition. http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15 Awesome! Ill be going... In protest :) David I find your lack of faith disturbing --Darth Vader --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote: Ubsubscried, What does Ubsubscried mean? --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote: Ubsubscried, What does Ubsubscried mean? It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal aliens what they are. -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote: Ubsubscried, What does Ubsubscried mean? It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal aliens what they are. it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse this list to push their political views. I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
For what it is worth we value you on the list Craig, David, anyone else who is ready to leave. I have plans for a website and I'll send a link. I cannot say that I will not from time to time join in on the political bantering though. I think this thread might be dead. Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: From: Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 7:46 PM On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote: Ubsubscried, What does Ubsubscried mean? It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal aliens what they are. it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse this list to push their political views. I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I joined this list recently to see about participating more with PLUG. Is this really what a Linux-oriented mailing list is about? My mailbox as never been so full of crap. What's the usual ratio of rabid howling to actual technical discussion? On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote: Ubsubscried, What does Ubsubscried mean? It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal aliens what they are. it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse this list to push their political views. I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 19:57, Russell Deneault russell.denea...@gmail.comwrote: I joined this list recently to see about participating more with PLUG. Is this really what a Linux-oriented mailing list is about? My mailbox as never been so full of crap. What's the usual ratio of rabid howling to actual technical discussion? You are correct ... the discussion has nothing really to do with Linux. I thought the discussion was interesting and this is an issue that effects everyone. I'm not offended by your opinion (you're entitled to it); even if I don't agree with everything people say It's trivial to press DELETE. Though if this did become a list that didn't allow people to speak freely I'd just unsubscribe (no threats first). JD --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
/| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ SUCCESSFUL TROLL IS SUCCESSFUL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On 05/17/2010 07:57 PM, Russell Deneault wrote: I joined this list recently to see about participating more with PLUG. Is this really what a Linux-oriented mailing list is about? My mailbox as never been so full of crap. What's the usual ratio of rabid howling to actual technical discussion? The list will be solidly technical for two or three weeks at a time. Then a hot political topic comes along that generates a huge amount of off topic traffic. On rare occasions threads refuse to die so list admins have had to kill them. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com mailto:craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM, j...@actionline.com mailto:j...@actionline.com wrote: http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote: Ubsubscried, What does Ubsubscried mean? It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal aliens what they are. it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse this list to push their political views. I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To the rest, you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely painful you're going to throw a fit or something? no, you just don't like what is being said... but guess what- this issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Why? Serious inquiry. From my brief reading, they don't do anything many other political groups do. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:37:56 -0700 2010: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The subject remains, however, off-topic. It has nothing to do with your political opinions, or your expression thereof. All I'm saying is, choose your medium. Many of us are friends with you on Facebook or some other social networking site, and a few of us read your blog. Also respect that most people on this list are pedantic about what is off-topic, or simply do not care. The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. I hate those threads too. Internet memo: either we already know that there's a Cox outage, or we don't care because we don't subscribe to Cox, thankyou. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
@tuna thank you for the art! I'm deffinately going to use it. Probably the best part of this thread. from my DROID On May 17, 2010 8:33 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ SUCCESSFUL TROLL IS SUCCESSFUL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recen... --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - plug-disc...@lists.p... --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Will you condemn and denounce them? simple question. We're not comparing to other groups. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:56 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Why? Serious inquiry. From my brief reading, they don't do anything many other political groups do. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:44:38 -0700 2010: To the rest, you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely painful you're going to throw a fit or something? At the time of writing, this thread is 67 messages long. That's more than a few. Easy to ignore in my GMail-style threaded email client, although it does take about a minute to open this thread. no, you just don't like what is being said... but guess what- this issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan. It's not that we don't like it, or even that we don't care. It's simply the wrong place, and therefore trolling. We respect your political opinions, and many of us may even agree. But please, not on plug-discuss. This is not your personal enraged-chain-mail-list, or your television audience. This is a (shrinking) group of hobbyists and professionals that like to talk about Linux. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
I can respect that Tuna, but keep in mind that people say politically charged things all the time here without problem. It's when we arrive at loaded topics like illegal aliens that suddenly registers as 'trolling'. The fact is this issue effects us all, even as developers or Linux users, and most certainly as Arizonan residents. Trying to blot out the discussion is just as caustic. The fact that David seems tacitly supportive of groups like La Raza make it even more alarming. I don't see why people who hold perfectly valid opinions with regards to illegal aliens should feel alienated *in their own country*. Enough of this PC crap. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:44:38 -0700 2010: To the rest, you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely painful you're going to throw a fit or something? At the time of writing, this thread is 67 messages long. That's more than a few. Easy to ignore in my GMail-style threaded email client, although it does take about a minute to open this thread. no, you just don't like what is being said... but guess what- this issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan. It's not that we don't like it, or even that we don't care. It's simply the wrong place, and therefore trolling. We respect your political opinions, and many of us may even agree. But please, not on plug-discuss. This is not your personal enraged-chain-mail-list, or your television audience. This is a (shrinking) group of hobbyists and professionals that like to talk about Linux. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
And I asked why. An even simpler question to answer, it would seem. David I find your lack of faith disturbing --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Will you condemn and denounce them? simple question. We're not comparing to other groups. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:56 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Why? Serious inquiry. From my brief reading, they don't do anything many other political groups do. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
you either support their politics or you don't. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will assume that you do support them if you fail to provide a decisive answer to the question. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:21 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net wrote: And I asked why. An even simpler question to answer, it would seem. David I find your lack of faith disturbing --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Will you condemn and denounce them? simple question. We're not comparing to other groups. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:56 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Why? Serious inquiry. From my brief reading, they don't do anything many other political groups do. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: David, Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA right now? -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David da...@damnetwork.net da...@damnetwork.net wrote: Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican. Yes, a personal attack. Just as the comment I'm referring to is. David I find your lack of faith disturbing. --Darth Vader On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 22:14:09 -0700 2010: I can respect that Tuna, but keep in mind that people say politically charged things all the time here without problem. It's when we arrive at loaded topics like illegal aliens that suddenly registers as 'trolling'. The fact is this issue effects us all, even as developers or Linux users, and most certainly as Arizonan residents. Trying to blot out the discussion is just as caustic. The fact that David seems tacitly supportive of groups like La Raza make it even more alarming. I don't see why people who hold perfectly valid opinions with regards to illegal aliens should feel alienated *in their own country*. Enough of this PC crap. -jmz No question the topic swelled to 70+ posts because many find this more inflammatory than others. I am only attempting to treat the effect, a 70+ post thread of worthless hissy fits. I would have posted my lovely ASCII art if this was a discussion of traffic light bias, horseradish recipes, gay marriage, animal rights, a new proposed sales tax, thebanning of your mom jokes on the lightrail, or the availability of finger sandwiches in downtown Tempe. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:44:38 -0700 2010: To the rest, you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely painful you're going to throw a fit or something? At the time of writing, this thread is 67 messages long. That's more than a few. Easy to ignore in my GMail-style threaded email client, although it does take about a minute to open this thread. no, you just don't like what is being said... but guess what- this issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan. It's not that we don't like it, or even that we don't care. It's simply the wrong place, and therefore trolling. We respect your political opinions, and many of us may even agree. But please, not on plug-discuss. This is not your personal enraged-chain-mail-list, or your television audience. This is a (shrinking) group of hobbyists and professionals that like to talk about Linux. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Tuna, We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux. Just because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject. Of course some people don't like it being discussed. Those are the people who want to prevent action from being taken. There are some of these people on this thread. How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!? The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo. It's not a laughing matter. Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american. Our state is broke, as are many other states. Our ability to maintain our technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically. This means *your job*. It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves profitably relative to California. Discussion is absolutely critical to moving in the right direction. Don't let people blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground. That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'. -jmz On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: /| ___ / | __-- --__ |\ | \_----_ / | |)\/ | \__/ / ) ,-` / 0 .. 0 | / /| | , \ ,__ / | \/ | \ ```) \__/ ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain. Congrats, Zeidner. Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Tuna t...@supertunaman.com wrote: I don't see why people who hold perfectly valid opinions with regards to illegal aliens should feel alienated *in their own country*. Enough of this PC crap. -jmz No question the topic swelled to 70+ posts because many find this more inflammatory than others. it's inflammatory because it's an open wound. -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
So would we - we need the money. Not to mention we have enforceable contracts. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:25 PM, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: Not that this is the place for a political debate but California shouldn't 'bite the hand that feeds them'... If Az cut off the water and power we send them they'll be hurting plenty. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 12:54, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. -jmz -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the hardware is mostly based in california? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Kurt Granroth kurt+plug-disc...@granroth.com Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48 To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts? On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. What does any of this have to do with Apple? --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
(OT)Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
At 01:23 PM 5/16/2010, you wrote: On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: Hello PLUG, I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html Hopefully they will choose Linux. What does any of this have to do with Apple? Californians are ignorant of their own laws on this matter anyway -- here is a comparisonand it makes SB 1070 look very, very good...G CALIFORNIA'S IMMIGRATION LAW VERY SIMILAR TO SB 1070 CA Cities Can Now Boycott Each Other California's penal code section 834b requires, not merely permits, law enforcement to attempt to verify the immigration status of people who are suspected of being in the US illegally. But there are basic differences. The California law requires verification of immigration status when a person has been arrested. Under section 834 of the Calif. Penal Code, that means when a person has been taken into custody. Arizona requires verification when there has been any lawful stop, detention, or arrest. Note that HB2162, the amendments to the original Arizona law, inserted any lawful stop, detention or arrest in place of contact .Arizona requires verification when there is reasonable suspicion that the person being stopped, detained,or arrested might be in the US illegally. California does not require reasonable suspicion. Verification is required only if it is suspected that the person is in the US illegally. But one difference stands out. Nothing in the California Penal Code Section 834b prohibits police from basing their decision on a person's race or ethnicity the way HB2162 explicitly prohibits Arizona police from considering race, color, or national origin when carrying out their duties except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution. Again, Arizona's SB1070 prohibited police from solely basing their actions on race, color or national origin. HB2162 deleted the word solely, which means that the police cannot consider these factors at all unless it is permitted by the US and Arizona Constitutions. Apparently some Californians haven't noticed they live in a glass house. It's time they stop throwing stones at Arizona. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
