Re: [ot_caving] computer news
I think my $300 Dell Laptop has a liquid cooling system. Apparently all that does is help pipe heat away from the CPU so the heat sink matrix and fan don't have to be centered on the CPU. (Man, the bottom of that thing runs HOT when it's running wide open - hooked up to external power with all powersave options switched 'off'!) Literally, it has little pipes. -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] fruit bats may be using biological warfare against humans
I wish I could understand how carrying a virus could be beneficial to a species - and how loss or challenge of habitat would make the virus more prevalent. Interesting article, though. -WaV On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.comwrote: Ok so I copied that headline from fark, but here's the LINK http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/31/2351119.htmto the article. have fun reading, I did Nico
Re: [Texascavers] Deep and Punkin Update
DO NOT FORGET! If you are a Verizon subscriber, you're cell phone WILL NOT work out there at the preserve. I believe ATT phone service is one provider that DOES work out there. But - can you hear me now? NO. You Won't if you're on VERIZON. -WaV On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Geary Schindel gschin...@mindspring.comwrote: Please be aware that there has been a lot of rain in the Edwards County area and vehicles with low clearance may not be able to get all the way to the cabin. You can either try and reach the cabin or you can call and let us know you need a ride from the bottom of the hill to the top. My cell phone is 210-326-1576 Michelle Bryant's cell is 210-213-0722 Geary
Re: [ot_caving] Yes Calif again NGV
I believe that relying on our own resources as opposed to enriching the treasuries of oil-rich middle eastern countries is a very good idea, economically. -WaV On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:38 AM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: This may help oil but will it help the economy? The air quality - some help. Quinta Source - NGV Global Tuesday, 26 August 2008 05:06 USA, California Two national truckload carriers have signed letters of intent to participate in the port of Los Angeles' Clean Trucks Plan. The two, Swift Transportation Co. and Knight Transportation,
[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Deep Roots
Wow - That means Uwe Lange and Manfred Huchthausen are ultimate world-record 'homeboys'. 3000 years. Wow! -WaV On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:19 PM, CaverArch cavera...@aol.com wrote: Cave discovery of 40 Bronze Age skeletons in the Lichtenstein Cave: BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Uncovering the ultimate family treehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7570928.stm The 3,000-year-old skeletons were in such good condition that anthropologists at the University of Goettingen managed to extract a sample of DNA. That was then matched to two men living nearby: Uwe Lange, a surveyor, and Manfred Huchthausen, a teacher. The two men have now become local celebrities. Roger Moore -- Get the MapQuest Toolbarhttp://mapquest.com/toolbar?ncid=mpqmap000510. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices More!
Re: [ot_caving] a semi-funny personal story
You are like a big cottonwood leaf tossed about by the winds of Karma. -WaV On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:20 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: I was riding my scooter all day in the rain today, because I decided to leave my rainsuit at home. I decided to find a store to go in and dry off.The nearest store was a Goodwill Store so I pulled in there.
[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] OT - Tropical Storm Fay
I wonder if the Fu King Chinese Restaurant is going to suffer the brunt of it? (But once you've seen one Fu King Chinese Restaurant - I guess you've seen 'em all) _WaV PS: Did anyone run into Bill Morgan aka Sleazeweazel at the convention? On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 1:42 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: The campground at the former NSS Convention is forecasted to have tropical storm conditions for the several days, and rain for 10 days. resteraunt I bet is it already underwater. I can imagine it will be under 6 inches of water in a few days, and look like a lake with a big tree out in the middle and alligators swimming around. Had the convention been in a few days, it would have been much more memorable. David Locklear
[ot_caving] Cheese Freeze - used food
Yesterday I became the proud owner of 40 lbs of cheese. It's a 5 to 1 mixture of diced mozzerella and cheddar. The stuff comes shipped frozen - and as so would remain viable, good or fresh until some time next year. However, once thawed - as it were - still packaged - it only has a 3 day shelf life. Rather than see all that stuff go into a dumpster - I stepped in to try to save it. I have opened one box and checked it - it certainly doesnt look, feel or smell spoiled - so I put it all into my freezer where it now waits some big cheesy disbursement. Free quesadillas at the next TCR comes to mind. But doesn't cheese age for months at room temperature? I figure - except for the opened and examined portion - the stuff is uncontaminated and refrozen, it should last at least until October. I did have some liquid - whey laced water - leak from one box as it was being refrozen. I checked that one, which looked fine - I rewrapped the bag and placed it back in the freezer with the top of the bag pointing upward. This morning I looked and there have been no other leaks. Also I've got a load of frozen diced red/green bell peppers and fajita style steak strips (discontinued items, never unfrozen). Any opinions on the usability of this stuff? Having coronary issues - I shirk from the thought of eating it all myself. -WaV totally willing to share
Re: [Texascavers] Florida Showers
I'm bringing my Jews harp - boing boiing boing booiinnng boing boing -WaV On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.comwrote: BOO HOO! -Original Message- From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:10 AM To: Fritz Holt; speleoste...@tx.rr.com; vivb...@att.net Cc: Cave NM; Cave Texas Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Florida Showers No. -Original Message- From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] May I join you with my Kazoo? Fritz -Original Message- From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com [mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com] Their home-bound cowbell player wants to know too. By God I'll have my cowbell with me in Kerrville next summer! Bill vivb...@att.net wrote: So .. What did the Terminal Siphons do? They play the campground party Wednesday night. Was there a shelter or a building? Their home-bound sax player wants to know... -Vivian Loftin -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Chupacabra Alert near SA!
Oh, I see. CHumpacabra is the same thing as a coyote or dog? Don't doggie's suck goats? -WaV On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:29 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Y'all thought I was crazy, but, here's more proof of another illegal alien invading the Lone Star State. Coming to a cave near you, I give you the CHUPACABRA!: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7193543version=1locale=EN-USlayoutCode=VSTYpageId=1.1.1 First it was in Mantauck on the east coast, now they're coming at us from the south! Is no where safe!? View and despair. (An over-caffeinated) Mark A.
Re: [ot_caving] 108 mpg car has 8 gal gas tank
I've been hearing about such an engine for 20 years. In practice, using compressed air is almost exactly the same thing as using a big spring. Energy in = Energy out Many times I've wondered if I had a mechanical spring to store the energy I use when coming to a stop - and used that wound up spring to get me going again - how much my mileage would be increased. I'm pretty sure at least 5mpg and maybe as much as 10mpg (city driving, of course). I believe this would easily be more efficient than Hybrid Technology. -WaV On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 5:08 AM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/08/08/air.car/index.html full story You've heard of hybrids, electric cars and vehicles that can run on vegetable oil. But of all the contenders in the quest to produce the ultimate fuel-efficient car, this could be the first one to let you say, fill it up with air. Whether the engine uses just air or both air and fuel would depend on how fast the car is going. It would run purely on compressed air at speeds less than 35 mph, Vencat said. Since the car could only go a short distance when using just air, fuel is needed to get the full range, he explained. Above 35 mph, there is an external combustion system, which is basically a heater that uses a little bit of gasoline or biofuel or ethanol or vegetable oil that will heat the air, Vencat said. Heating the air increases its volume, and by increasing its volume, it increases [the car's] range. That's why with one gallon of gasoline or its equivalent we are able to make over 100 mpg.
Re: [Texascavers] cave locations on-line--Brinco
Interesting. Perhaps not a real good thing. Should caves locations be posted on the internet? Historically, the answer has been ABSOLUTELY NOT. I'm pretty sure that the fine people at Google will remove it if asked to. -WaV On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote: At 12:15 PM 8/6/2008, Minton, Mark wrote: There are indeed caves posted on Panoramio. Check out http://www.panoramio.com/user/679527. Panoramio is one of the links in Google Earth under the Geographic Web layer. I noticed a few days ago that the Brinco entrance is marked on Google Earth. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] New Amphibious Vehicle
That looks a whole lot like the thing the Bannana Splits used to zoom around in. Of course theirs were fiberglass and not like, on steroids. Those guys never went caving though. Not unless in was in Spelunkers Cave at Six Flags. -WaV On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: Got an extra $50,000? Get the latest in amphibious vehicles, the Hydratrek: http://www.hydratrek.com/html/home.html. Check out the photo gallery. It can go almost anywhere you could think of driving, but the top speed is only 15 mph. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] ...Then one day he was huntin' up some food and up through the ground came a bubbling crude thermal anomoly
Very very interesting! Just when you thought those California brush fires were OUT http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-hotground5-2008aug05%2C0%2C4689903.story -WaV
[ot_caving] GERMS From SPACE!
Howard Hugh's worst nightmare. http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2008/08/galactic_panspermia Intriguing. WaV
[ot_caving] And I thought David Locklear had tough luck.....
This guy's losing his house because of unpaid tickets! http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=779632 Damn Revenuers -Wav
Re: [ot_caving] Avocado Pit Germination
Yeah - thanks to all and now I'm waiting. I did the toothpick thing and I figure the best thing is to keep the lowest quarter of the thing wet in the water. One of them is a little less than a quarter in the water. I'm concerned a little that my mode of avocado consumption leaves shallow cuts along the pit. I usually slice off segments of avocado a little at a time and in the process the skin of the pit gets shallow lacerations. I guess I could forgo this 'bit by bit' way of eating them. Incidentally, the ones I'm working on now are the cheaper, smaller Hass variety. Maybe I'll get one of those big $1.50 ones and be a little more careful with the pit. Ounce for ounce avocados have much less fat than peanut butter! I'd rather nosh on 'cados than pb... but they both obviously have their place. -WaV On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:42 PM, CaverArch cavera...@aol.com wrote: Timely question (for me): there's an as-yet-un-sprouted one in my kitchen right now, by the old toothpicks suspending-in-a-water-glass technique. I was able to get one going this way when I was a kid in the Florida panhandle, but that was in the cold 1960s decade (low temp for Panama City hit 10 degrees during one cold snap) and it froze when about 3-ft high. I figured I'd try again and let global warming help for a change. Roger Moore Houston In a message dated 07/31/08 15:41:06 Central Daylight Time, wavyca...@gmail.com writes: Anyone with a knack for growing things? I've gotten a few started over the years, but most of them died before getting roots going and only one out of ten got started at all. Horticulturists, please enlighten me. -WaV -- The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp000514!
[ot_caving] Yes, I already HAVE Googled this MIDI USB problem....
And oddly, every thread that appears - seems to have been generated more than a year ago... I take it that someone else out there, who caves, or reads off topic caving posts may also be a closet musician - and possibly also might have some experience controlling music devices with computers Most of what I once claimed expertise in seems a little fuzzy now. Back then when I first plugged a pricey gadget called MPU-401 into the ISA slot of my IBM XT - things seemed a whole lot simpler. Of course interuppts and IO addresses were totally dedicated. No flippity-floppity plug and play back then. You always knew where things stood back then. Windows was in its infancy. Recently I bought a USB Midi interface to hook my old Kawai keyboard up to my newest gigapowered laptop. Although one of the most recent versions of Cakewalk Home Studio runs flawlessly on my laptop - when I attempt to play the virtual wavetable synthesizers that reside within my laptop - I have problems. Playback from the computer TO my old keyboard works fine. Multiple notes work - pitch bend and mod wheel information seem to have no problem at all being understood by the old Kawai. However, when using the keyboard as a controller - things hardly work at all. But it does - sortof. I can PLAY the computer with the old keyboard But... Only One... Note... At... A... Time... AND you cannot make chords, notes cannot be played very fast AND usually when you release a key - some other key seems to still be ON. Midi protocol specifies that key ON is one event and key OFF is another. Multiple key ONs make a chord. (The delay between bytes transmitted is so incredably fast, that the ear hears chords, not glisses.) According to the Chinese distributor of the MIDI USB device - No driver needed. I must have missed someting. Anyone else know anything about this stuff?? -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Anyone want to weigh in on this one?
Yes, I really meant repository - but suppository sounds funnier. Although Snopes is a good filter for determining what is absolutely false and absolutely true - so much of it is tagged as unknown or unsubstantiated and my dear elderly mom thinks that means it *could be true. *As so many of her church friends send her SO much crap (and she forwards it to me..) I think that Montauk thing does look something like a cow maybe with a gargoyles head attached. (There is SO much you can do with photoshop!) -Don C (Watching the PTL Club on TV right now - it's so much more entertaining than Tyra) On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote: Hi Don, I think you meant repositories, not suppositories (but then, maybe not). Whole different meaning. Actually this one didn't originate with Snopes, but the picture was in several newspapers on the east coast after the mystery animal was found on the beach. In spite of what they said, didn't look like a raccoon to me--even a hairless one. I remember walking with my boyfriend along the beach bordering the Intercoastal Canal and seeing a very bloated cow with all the hair scoured off by salt water and sand, looking like it was just about ready to explode. Apparently fell off one of the cattleboats that ply the canal. Looked a lot like the beast in the picture except for the teeth. All purple, green, red with all 4 feet sticking straight out. Actually, I've found Snopes very useful in separating facts from hoaxes. The only reason they have all this stuff is because people send it to them and want to know whether or not it's real (remember the huge cat picture that turned out to be a hoax?). Louise -- Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:26:10 -0500 From: wavyca...@gmail.com To: power_lou...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Anyone want to weigh in on this one? Snopes is one of the largest suppositories (sp) of unsubstantiated crap anywhere on the internet. My dear old mom frequently sends me junk like this. She likes miracle pictures of the virgin mary and Jesus made in the clouds and shadows from streetlights. She thinks if something is published on the internet - then it must have some volition. She wants to believe. Every single item like this, from What can happen when you use your cell phone while its plugged in the the charger to alien egg clutch found in church cemetery ALWAYS have some excuse as to why it cannot be verified or revisited - Or is verified by some BS source that isn't real. Privately - Don C. On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote: http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/montauk.asp
Re: [ot_caving] FW: Army Mechanical Mule
You think THAT's cool, you ought to see the Swiss Army Mule! It can defend itself with a barrage of attachments including knives, giant corkscrews and can shoot toothpicks 100 yards! -WaV On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:44 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Wow, Fritz! That is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. As an avowed nerd and someone who worked on/with robots several years ago and with computer and infrared vision now, it amazes me how far the technology has progressed. Watch the video! I was especially impressed on how it performed on ice, concrete blocks, and when that guy tried to kick it over. Truly amazing! Thanks for posting it. Mark -- *From:* Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] *Sent:* Mon 7/28/2008 11:26 AM *To:* o...@texascavers.com *Cc:* Jenny Holt *Subject:* [ot_caving] FW: Army Mechanical Mule This most interesting post was sent to me by a life-long friend and retired US Army major with whom I recently became re-acquainted. I also find it interesting that the rear legs are like a person walking forward and the front legs like the action of walking backwards. Fritz -- *From:* Guy Heath [mailto:hea...@satx.rr.com] *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2008 12:46 PM *To:* ; *Subject:* Army Mechanical Mule Now this is downright scarey http://www.bostondynamics.com/content/sec.php?section=BigDog
[ot_caving] Avocado Pit Germination
Anyone with a knack for growing things? I've gotten a few started over the years, but most of them died before getting roots going and only one out of ten got started at all. Horticulturists, please enlighten me. -WaV
[ot_caving] Energy Prices, Stock Market and wild rides
Yesterday the Dow dropped 239 points. Today it climbed a bit more than 266! My little portfolio was up 4.6%. Gold was down 11 bucks! (I'm thinking that means the dollar is worth about 1.2 cents more than yesterday - the dollar climbed 1.02% against the Euro) The price of Texas sweet crude [USO] was down 2.50. (Now LESS than $100 - why the Texas sweet crude index fund is 10 to 20 dollars less than the world market price - I dunno! Maybe it's because it climbs as it follows the world market price, but it really doesn't cost so much to make in the first place. It has been this way year after year - maybe someone can tell me why that is) Natural Gas was down too - all the energy commodities and stocks. Question is - how many others out there have had a wild and bumpy ride JUST BEFORE a big CRASH? -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Astronaut: Aliens Are Real
Just for the record... and I hope others will chime in as well. I do NOT believe. I think that abundant life is out there, and somewhere there are other creatures pondering the possible existence of us, as well. Yet the physical obstacle of getting from one island of life to another is so substantial that this species will never, ever get to see or experience any other sentient beings. Even if we do leave this planet for an interstellar journey before we destroy ourselves, I am sure that visiting another solar system will be, for those making the trip, a one way experience. We have, as a species, developed a brain complex and rich enough in abstract thought that we are able to convince ourselves that we have seen things which we have not - and experienced that which does not and has not ever existed. This to me is the realm of of flying saucers, spacemen, rods and gods. -WaV On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote: Just thought I'd turn our minds to other subjects: *Astronaut: Aliens Are Real *By Tom Shoop | Friday, July 25, 2008 | 10:16 AM Well, the conspiracy had to crack sometime. *Edgar Mitchell*, an astronaut on Apollo 14 and the sixth man to walk on the moon, *told Kerrang! Radio*http://www.kerrangradio.co.uk/Article.asp?id=804160this week that we're not alone in the universe and the government knows all about it. I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real, he said. Mitchell is more than just a famous astronaut and a scientist. He grew up in Roswell, N.M., site of a famous alleged UFO landing. And, he said, I've been in military circles and intelligence circles that know beneath the surface of what has been public knowledge that yes, we have been visited. ...I have been deeply involved in certain committes and certain research programs with very credible scientists and intelligence people that do know the real inside story. There's been quite a bit of contact going on, Mitchell added. The Roswell crash was real and [the fact that] a number of other contacts have been real and ongoing is pretty well known to those of us who have been briefed and have been close to the subject matter. So who exactly are the visitors? Some of them are these little people that look strange to us, Mitchell said. As far as I know from my contacts that have had contact, that was the reaction. NASA politely suggests Mitchell doesn't know what he's talking about. NASA is not involved in any sort of cover up about alien life on this planet or anywhere in the universe, the agency told the radio station. Dr. Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinion on this issue. Oh really? If Mitchell's crazy, how do you explain the fact that he *got the agency's Ambassador of Exploration award*http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/jan/HQ_M06013_Mitchell_ambassador_award.htmljust a couple of years ago?
Re: [ot_caving] Chimes Are Real
Hey Charles - Is there any way I can post to everyone on OT and EXCLUDE people who are too smart to talk to? -DC On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.netwrote: At 06:29 PM 7/28/2008, CaverArch wrote: In a message dated 07/28/08 17:25:12 Central Daylight Time, wavyca...@gmail.com writes: Just for the record... and I hope others will chime in as well. I do NOT believe. There are a couple (at least) of phenomena extant that make believing in things a bit risky. (Bear in mind, please, that to not believe in some particular thing may very well be the same as to believe in the opposite or alternative concept.) The first is that the imagination is the upper limit when it comes to coming up with things to believe--or to believe in--or even to not believe. It should go without saying that throughout history people have believed in a hell of a lot of bogus things as a result of hallucinations and psychotic apparitions--not to mention religious pheaux-pheaux out the butt, and of untold extremes. If the odds were figured we would see that many, many more of these bogus things have been invented and believed in over the years than have actually turned out to be true, solid phenomena. True believers still speak of superstition when explaining the contrary beliefs of other true believers. Go figger.
Re: [ot_caving] Chimes Are Real
If I was into hot air ballooning - I'd bring him along in case I run out of propaneHa! -DC On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:33 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: Heh, nope, but you gotta admit, he certainly has a way with words though. On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Charles - Is there any way I can post to everyone on OT and EXCLUDE people who are too smart to talk to? -DC On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote: At 06:29 PM 7/28/2008, CaverArch wrote: In a message dated 07/28/08 17:25:12 Central Daylight Time, wavyca...@gmail.com writes: Just for the record... and I hope others will chime in as well. I do NOT believe. There are a couple (at least) of phenomena extant that make believing in things a bit risky. (Bear in mind, please, that to not believe in some particular thing may very well be the same as to believe in the opposite or alternative concept.) The first is that the imagination is the upper limit when it comes to coming up with things to believe--or to believe in--or even to not believe. It should go without saying that throughout history people have believed in a hell of a lot of bogus things as a result of hallucinations and psychotic apparitions--not to mention religious pheaux-pheaux out the butt, and of untold extremes. If the odds were figured we would see that many, many more of these bogus things have been invented and believed in over the years than have actually turned out to be true, solid phenomena. True believers still speak of superstition when explaining the contrary beliefs of other true believers. Go figger.
[ot_caving] RE: Here's a fun one - Mammoth Continues
I'm curious - new leads waiting to be pursued in Mammoth, but NONE in Carlsbad? Has CaCa been scoured for years with no promise or is there a moratorium on pushing it? -WaV On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:06 PM, speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote: Mark Allman wrote: Cool cave with a lot of history, but we all like CaCa better. Not me. I like Mammoth Cave far better than Carlsbad. Why? For starters, it's still being explored and mapped. It gets longer every year. It's something like 14 times longer than Carlsbad. We go to Mammoth 2 or 3 times a year and usually set a new world record for the world's longest cave. In Carlsbad your options are to bop the tourist trails, resurvey some passage for the upteenth time, or pick up lint. Bill mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: It was a couple of years ago when we were there. Cool cave with a lot of history, but we all like CaCa better. Mark From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] Sent: Fri 7/25/2008 12:36 PM To: David Cc: o...@texascavers.com; Minton, Mark; speleoste...@tx.rr.com; vivb...@att.net Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Here's a fun one When I was a kid, I visited Mammoth with my mom and dad. At the time, old saltpeter mining gear was still in the cave - like vats and wooden pipes. I wonder if that stuff is still there? =WaV On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:58 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: This is an interesting thread. According to Wikipedia, The U.S. Congress passed legislation that would allow U.S. citizens to take possession of unoccupied islands containing saltpetre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Chincha_guano_islands.JPG Note this is supposedly how we obtained the famous Midway Island. There is lots of information info on the web about salt-petre and caves. For example: http://www.dmme.virginia.gov/DMR3/dmrpdfs/vamin/VAMIN_VOL47_NO04.pdf
Re: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Here's a fun one
When I was a kid, I visited Mammoth with my mom and dad. At the time, old saltpeter mining gear was still in the cave - like vats and wooden pipes. I wonder if that stuff is still there? =WaV On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:58 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: This is an interesting thread. According to Wikipedia, The U.S. Congress passed legislation that would allow U.S. citizens to take possession of unoccupied islands containing saltpetre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Chincha_guano_islands.JPG Note this is supposedly how we obtained the famous Midway Island. There is lots of information info on the web about salt-petre and caves. For example: http://www.dmme.virginia.gov/DMR3/dmrpdfs/vamin/VAMIN_VOL47_NO04.pdf
Re: [Texascavers] Einhornhoehle (German show cave)
Ah - so unicorns really did exist! :-) -WaV On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Ted Samsel tbsam...@infionline.net wrote: http://www.einhornhoehle.de/Start/x.htm The German hydrogeologist I work with sent me this.. one of her former colleagues is working here now.. T. http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ http://home.infionline.net/%7Etbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cave Lighting - the kind you wear
StenLight looks great. I'm totally envious of Wes Schumacher's. I think I saw him using it as a bicycle light. Is there a LOCAL (ie. Austin) distributor? I mean, wow, $310 is a lot of cash for some folks. -WaV
[ot_caving] KLRU Program on Flooding
I wish everyone could be watching this! I have never realized what a tremendous amount of waste that corporate america (money vested developers) has spent and then gained anew through deception and peoples gullibility through building and rebuilding in 100 year flood plains (which in the New Braunfields area has been reached almost every 10 years). Fascinating! Disgusting! -WaV
[ot_caving] Re: KLRU Program on Flooding
See: www.floodsafety.org On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: I wish everyone could be watching this! I have never realized what a tremendous amount of waste that corporate america (money vested developers) has spent and then gained anew through deception and peoples gullibility through building and rebuilding in 100 year flood plains (which in the New Braunfields area has been reached almost every 10 years). Fascinating! Disgusting! -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Re: KLRU Program on Flooding
YUP! Except here in the good ole USA - its not called bribing it's called politics. There are so many cozy (and oh so legitimate) relationships between developers and law makers and governors - past and present. (Williams, Bush, Perry - and NO I don't consider 'Richards' to have been one of THEM) Some legislators, I understand, are partners of land development companies, or at least real good buddies or frat brothers with someone who owns one. (The borders of the 100 year flood plain off the banks the Guadalupe have been under water something like seven times over the past 50 years. I think it was time to redraw those borders some time ago! I mean WHICH 100 years are we talking about?!?!) -WaV On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.com wrote: HA! 100 years flood plains scare you? developers here in Mexico are so greedy that they build on recurrent flood plains, (read every couple years) they build houses by the thousands and the average life expectancy of said houses is less than 4 years cause they're built so cheaply. how do they get away with it? why, bribing the government of course Nico On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: See: www.floodsafety.org On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: I wish everyone could be watching this! I have never realized what a tremendous amount of waste that corporate america (money vested developers) has spent and then gained anew through deception and peoples gullibility through building and rebuilding in 100 year flood plains (which in the New Braunfields area has been reached almost every 10 years). Fascinating! Disgusting! -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Gas mileage.
Has anyone else suspended their disbelief long enough to look into some of this Water For Fuel business? The last one I looked at talked about 'using your battery to seperate the water into HHO which is THREE times more powerful than gasoline' I mean - I've been told I shoot ideas down before trying them - (physics classes aside) but does anyone actually believe you can get a net gain from recombining H2 and O after applying the energy to split them apart? Is this recombination in concert with gasoline supposed to make it feasible? I've even seen news reports about 'some great new inventor' using water for fuel. I think these reporters are amazingly not smart and gullible. I'd like to see some response to what others think about this hooey... -WaV On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Terry Holsinger tr...@sprynet.com wrote: VW Diesels have been on the US roads since about 1981 and getting around 40-45mpg the whole time. They have not been popular with the masses mostly because they are diesels (i.e. they smell, are noisy, vibrate, hard to find fuel, cost more, and are slow). In the recent years VW (and Daimler) have come out with electronic injection for these cars and they have seen good improvements on the acceleration end of non-turbo versions of these cars (and trucks) as well as improvements in emissions. The noise and vibration has been fixed (as it has in many newer cars and trucks) by general improvements in automotive built quality. As for caver folks driving these diesels, here in Austin, Walt Olneck drives an old 80's VW Rabbit, one of the San Antonio caver's has a new Passat station wagon. Also one of my relatives living in California has a diesel motor home (slide out wall and such) by Daimler and is getting just over 30 mpg in it, of course it does not have the over sized diesel like is found in US built trucks. Terry H. Fritz Holt wrote: I am switching this string to OT as Bill Steele reminded that it is a stretch to consider this topic caving related. The linear savings is a little deep for me but there may be a non-hybrid car or two that averages 40 mpg city and highway. I seem to have read recently that VW produced a small sedan, I believe a Jetta, with a small diesel engine that averaged at least 40mpg. How about it, David, am I remembering correctly? I don't consider a Smart for two a real automobile. Fritz - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] Gas mileage.
I think this is CRAP, but apparently not everyone thinks so - http://www.gas4freebonus.com/?id=G5888003 -WaV On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone else suspended their disbelief long enough to look into some of this Water For Fuel business?
Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage
Rumor has it that Nico Escamilla has become the Texas Caver remailer moderator? -WaV On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.com wrote: may I suggest that we take this discussion to the OT list? Nico On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Sam Young youn...@centurytel.net wrote: *(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.) --Mixon* OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda do not live in real life, I must object. I just put a new timing belt in my 1992 Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long time. I only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I did it was about 46 mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next. When the car was brand new I drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg. No, it is not for sale. Sam
Re: [Texascavers] RE: UV Cave Biology Indicator lighting
Well, It is beginning to look like short wave UV is preferable, but not easily created. (Short wave UV LEDs seem to be made from unobtanium.) I've found some good short-wave UV lights, but they do require more exotic materials - as Mark Minton pointed out - and are a lot more expensive and not LED driven. So a less than ideal direction is probably where I'm heading - trying to find the shortest wave UV LEDs available (350nm?) and combining a load of them wired densely together in a hand held gun composed of a project box with some kind of handle attached for cave crawling and path illumination. (Oh, and does clear polycarbonate or 'Plexiglas' block UV light as glass does?) Thanks for all the contributions! -WaV On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: Bob Cowell said: A few years ago I bought a couple of uv hand lights during Halloween. And Mary Thiesse said: Are led UV lights as harmful to the eyes as the flor. tube UV light? I'm surprised that they would make a clip on for your cap. Almost all of the generally available, inexpensive UV lamps are the weaker, long-wavelength variety. These work for seeing some fluorescent things like bugs and black-light posters, but they are not good for most fluorescent minerals. The short-wavelength lamps are more expensive and harder to find, mainly because short wave UV is much more harmful to eyes and because it will not penetrate ordinary glass, so special (and expensive) quartz optics are required. Mark Minton
Re: [Texascavers] RE: UV Cave Biology Indicator lighting
Thank you Joe! However - I am positive I cannot use their short UV wave LEDs... Way over my budget. It IS fascinating, though, that I could pay over $670 for an LED! But that is how much a ball-lens 255nm TO-39 20 mA UV LED costs! -WaV On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Joe Mitchell joemitch...@satx.rr.com wrote: The biggest selection of UV LEDs (and other oddball wavelength LEDs) that I know of is a company in Austria: http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_diverse.htm They have standard LEDs down to 350nm, but other specialized (meaning VERY expensive) ones down to 255nm. Their price list is a little hard to find, but is here: http://www.roithner-laser.at/All_Datasheets/Pricelists/pricelist-c-080701.pdf I have ordered many things from them before, and though it sometimes takes a while to get stuff, they are a reputable opto-electronics company. -Joe On Jul 20, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Minton, Mark wrote: Don Cooper said: So a less than ideal direction is probably where I'm heading - trying to find the shortest wave UV LEDs available (350nm?) Those will still be way too long wave for the best fluoescent minerals, unfortunately. does clear polycarbonate or 'Plexiglas' block UV light as glass does? I don't know for a fact, but I can say with pretty high certainty, yes. Almost any organic material is going to block short wave UV. If there were something cheaper than quartz to use on those lights, they would. Mark Minton
[Texascavers] UV Cave Biology Indicator lighting
Is 400 to 405nm a good wavelength for fluorescing cave critters and interesting cave minerals? I'm considering buying 100 5mm UV LEDs off eBay from Hong Kong. They have a operating voltage of 3.2 to 3.6 and come with resistors for ideal current from a 12v source. (100 for a total cost of 12.99. Anyone want to split this with me? I really DON't need 100) -WaV
[Texascavers] [Fuel, Caving NSS]
Anyone want a ride to Convention? Don Arburn - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices
Sorry for name calling, but... Big time consumption has been egging on the S D equation for a long time now. The fact that the most recent hyper-spike in price has only curbed consumption marginally just goes to show how lucky we've been so far (In other words, I feel like its fortunate that it hasnt been like this for years instead of months). I too remember what it was like when SUPPLY was down - based on the Arab oil Embargo - odd thing back then I seem to recall very little price gouging - but the worldwide price of crude didn't go over $20 even when there was a shortage of it. But yeah - that was a much larger dollar. What we are experiencing now are the first bands of thunderstorms generated by a MF of a hurricane. The fact that fuel consumption efficiency has steadily DECREASED since 1987 with our testosterone-driven 'gotta have more power and size' consumerism has advanced our progress toward the brink. Consumerism isn't the reason the brink exists. Escalades and Hummers aren't the reason we're running out of petroleum resources, they are why we are running out sooner than we should have. -WaV On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: Wavy, I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford *Exploder*that only gets 20 MPG highway. As has been mentioned, a big part of the problem is S D. With China, India and Russia demanding more oil and gasoline, the supply can't keep up. I feel a little pain but I am with Philip in that I am just glad that I can buy the gas. It was about 1974 or 75 when it was so scarce that I had to know a local official in Hondo to be able to buy gas there for a caving trip further west. I don't have the solution but I still believe that it is in the best interest of all US citizens that congress open all accessible areas to environmentally safe drilling. Happy Motoring, as one of the major oil companies used to advertise. Fritz -- *From:* Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2008 12:43 AM *To:* Philip L Moss *Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month. Basically, you can blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide, on assholes who feel like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs everyday everywhere for anything. -WaV On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss philipm...@juno.com wrote: Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal. also? Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the mid-1970s. BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon. Inflation calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008 dollars. 1906 was the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US and it the trip cost about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance, and a mechanic's salary for the trip). There is a movie called Horatio's Drive about the trip. Energy prices have been high before, just not much in living memory. BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US. There are numerous tax breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe that the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced from public lands. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com writes: snip Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme back those days!!! Paralegal Scholarship - Click Now!http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2142/fc/Ioyw6i3oICiLm0XB7pSJ1wnWLbfX3gH3ezJkfg41qRSLq5GGirl2WL/
Re: [ot_caving] Anything that Floats competition at OTR
I'm DEFINITELY stocking up on AA rated movies! -WaV On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: Just a reminder, September 19 is International Talk Like a Pirate Day. http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ Avast From: imoca...@comcast.net To: tag-...@hiddenworld.net; o...@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:53:30 -0400 Subject: [ot_caving] Anything that Floats competition at OTR ANYTHING THAT FLOATS COMPETITION It´s OTR´s Year-of-the-Pirate!!! In keeping with the spirit of piracy, OTR 2008 will feature a new competition called Anything that Floats - a race on the high seas, or the Tygart, whichever is closer. Blackjack Tobias Robertson invites all pirates over the age of 16 to participate in this point-to-point race where acts of piracy are encouraged and booty awaits the winner. Below are the Articles of Agreement which all pirates must follow in order to participate. The race is intended to be a group effort. Minimum number of pirates is 2; there is no maximum. * All pirates must sail inside the ship. * All ships must actually float on their own, without support. * Motors are not permitted; all ships must be man-powered. * Ships cannot be real boats, canoes, kayaks, or rafts. Ships must be built and can be made out of any materials - gallon milk jugs tied together, a bath tub (if you can get it to float), skis, foam, etc. * All materials and ships must be packed out of the campground, not left on-site or thrown in the dumpsters. * Admiral John Harris will inspect all ships for safety and adherence to the Articles of Agreement. All ships must pass his safety inspection in order to race. * Race at your own risk! You are responsible for your own safety and welfare. If you think you need safety equipment, such as a life-jacket, please bring it with you. Safety equipment will not be provided by OTR or TRA. TRA, OTR, and individual persons volunteering for TRA or OTR will not be liable if you get hurt. * Minimum age is 16. All pirates ages 16 and 17 must have parental consent to participate; and a parent or LEGAL guardian must be present. * The Admiral will determine the length and direction of the race depending upon the river conditions; and he may call-off, delay, or stop the race if river conditions are not favorable. * One grand prize will be awarded to the winner of the race. The winner is the entry that arrives at the finish line first, still floating under its own power, with all pirates still aboard (except those that accidentally fall in the water). * A second prize will be awarded for the most original/creative entry, based on such things as: costumes, pirate role-playing, ship originality/creativity. * One group can win both prizes. Both prizes will be determined by a panel of 5 judges immediately following the race. Both prizes will be announced and booty will be awarded to the winners immediately following the race. * The race is not part of the Speleo-Olympics. * The race is scheduled to occur during the River Party on Sunday. Exact time will be announced in the COOT and Holler and will be posted at the River Party stage, the Party Pavilion, and area bulletin boards. PIRATE CODE OF CONDUCT DURING THE RACE * Acts of piracy to sink or stop another ship are encouraged; but are limited to throwing water balloons or shooting at each other with water pistols. Content in balloons must be un-dyed/uncontaminated potable or river water (natural pollutants already exist in the river water; don´t add more to it). Water in balloons cannot be frozen. Limit is 1 dozen balloons and 1 dozen water pistols per ship. * The Admiral may inspect water balloons and water pistols and may disallow any for any reason. Water pistols may not contain enough pressure to actually injure another person. * Head-shots are prohibited; all shots must fall below the neck. Torso, arm, and leg shots are the only type permitted. The aim is to enjoy the role-playing, not injure another person. Hitting the ship with water balloons or water from water pistols is OK. * Physical contact between pirates of another ship is not permitted. Do not hit another pirate or their ship with anything other than water from water pistols or balloons. * Accidental bumping between ships may occur; but it may not be purposeful. * Don´t run over a pirate that accidentally falls in the water. If a pirate falls in the water, leave them be so they can get to safety as quickly as possible. * Except for accidental dunking, all pirates must remain inside their ships all the way to the finish line. * Accidents happen. However, any pirate caught using prohibited materials to hit another pirate or sink another ship, or caught purposely trying to injure another pirate, will result in his/her team being
Re: [ot_caving] The Drug War
I'm less interested in the lost cause of the drug war and just HAVE to know what kind of drugs David Locklear is on?? -WaV On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Scott Nicholson csnichol...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I 'm less interested in the submarine than I am about hallucinogens that are snorted up ones nose. :-) Scott Nicholson Broker/Waterboy Discovery Realty Group 512-947-2688 KW Commercial www.DiscoveryAustin.com - Original Message From: David dlocklea...@gmail.com To: o...@texascavers.com o...@texascavers.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:36:19 AM Subject: [ot_caving] The Drug War In the news today, another Columbian submarine was captured allegedly containing drugs. What does this tell you about how desparate Americans are to snort hallucinogens up their noses? I wonder if this same submarine has been captured before? What happened to the 8 or so others? Where they secretely sold to somebody or scrapped for metal? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just strap the drugs to a migrating whale? I wonder how many illegal submarines there are in U.S. ports? And do these submarines return home with U.S. exports? If so, isn't that a good thing? Where do these submarines re-fuel at without being detected? Are illegal immigrants coming by submarine? If so, we need to build a giant underwater wall to stop them all and it needs to extend along the entire international water line. Right? How many illegal nuclear-powered submarines are there? Or could a submarine like the Columbian one sneek an atomic weapon into the U.S.? David Locklear
Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices
No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month. Basically, you can blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide, on assholes who feel like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs everyday everywhere for anything. -WaV On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss philipm...@juno.com wrote: Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal. also? Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the mid-1970s. BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon. Inflation calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008 dollars. 1906 was the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US and it the trip cost about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance, and a mechanic's salary for the trip). There is a movie called Horatio's Drive about the trip. Energy prices have been high before, just not much in living memory. BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US. There are numerous tax breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe that the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced from public lands. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com writes: snip Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme back those days!!! Paralegal Scholarship - Click Now!http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2142/fc/Ioyw6i3oICiLm0XB7pSJ1wnWLbfX3gH3ezJkfg41qRSLq5GGirl2WL/
Re: [Texascavers] CWAN ladder?
I was there around 1976. Stairs. Don Arburn On Jul 16, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org wrote: My first CWAN tour was in April, 1985 with my daughter. The stairway was there then. I remember hearing about the cave from Mrs. Bridges at Cascade Caverns. We drove out into the country, and kept seeing signs to the cave on the then dirt road. The first sign said something like cave 1/2 mile. The next sign said something like cave 3 miles. I think if you added up the miles on all the signs, the cave was about 90 miles or something like that. We arrived at an old farm that appeared to have a stone outhouse along side. Wondering if we were at the wrong place, we finally spotted a sign that said in cave, back at 2:00 PM so we waited. Turned out that Eugene was in the house having a little nap. Assuming he heard us, he finally came out and said wanna see my cave? That followed down the 125 or so steps to one of the most fascinating tours ever with only Eugene, my daughter Jennifer and myself. Eugene put as much into it as if there were 50 people on the tour including his rock music. I returned may times just to take the tour with Eugene. Butch Fralia -Original Message- From: c...@boernenet.com [mailto:c...@boernenet.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:46 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] CWAN ladder? Does anyone in the Texas caving world recall a time when Cave Without a Name was accessed by a ladder? I,ve been having a very confusing conversation with a woman who remembers visiting here in 1995 and going down a ladder to see the cave. I have video tapes of Eugene giving the tour in 1993 and the stairway looks exactly the same as it does now. I also have a brochure from the 40's that shows the stairway looking just like it does now. Is there a possibility that someone was doing tours of Fairy cave before that area was sub devided. Does any one have pictures of Fairy cave or CWAN with a ladder access. Mike Burrell Cave Without a Name - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT - google groups
All hail OZTOTL. Don Arburn On Jul 14, 2008, at 12:52 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: We could always start talking religion again. JUST KIDDING! I’ll be quiet now and go back in my corner. Mark A
Re: [Texascavers] RE: TSA Landfund Idea
No arguement from me, as I said just kicking around ideas. Never said it was a GOOD one. Don Arburn Don Arburn said: Kicking around another idea for the dispensation of TSA Landfund monies... I think that would be a totally inappropriate use of land fund money. My two cents. Mark Minton
Re: [Texascavers] RE: TSA Landfund Idea
Mustang vs Cayman. Don Arburn On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:22 PM, John Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Oh come! Argue a bit...say something illusory! Sent from my iPhone - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves
Bassist for the album Zoot Alures was a different guy than Zappa had back when he recorded Bongo Fury, but Patrick O'Hearn wasn't his name. In 1975, Zappa was still working with several of the original Mothers - but by 1978, he had basically alienated the Mothers and had put together a new group of younger musicians for Zoot Alures (Richard Redus, Jeff Moris Tepperhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Moris_Tepper, Bruce Fowler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Fowler (Tom Fowlers brother, who played bass on Bongo Fury), Eric Drew Feldmanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Drew_Feldmanand Robert Williams). Perhaps the 'Zoot Alures' you mention is something other than the Album. Patrick O'Hearn is very young compared to the Zappa camp - (his bio says he was born in 1954) It seems that he did some studio work with Zappa during and after 1978. Albiet - yes, I concur with what you're saying about O'Hearns deep cave studio. In a somewhat off coincidence though - Beefheart did an album in 1976 that was never released - called Bat Chain Puller. -WaV On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:08 AM, RD Milhollin rdmilhol...@charter.net wrote: Naaa, it was Patrick O'Hearn. I was working off a mobile e-mail platform and didn't have access to the web when I posted before, but O'Hearn was the bass player for the Zoot Alures Zappa Band as well as for Missing Persons later. The 2008 Dallas performance of Dweezel's Zappa Plays Zappa tour opened with the title track. Here is a link to a P. O'Hearn Bio: http://www.musicianguide.com/biographies/1608003520/Patrick-O-39-Hearn.html Oh. The studio, it is apparently Deep Cave Studio (or records) and is in Bat Cave, NC. http://www.epinions.com/content_119979675268 I gather that this period in O'Hearn's career is over, but perhaps he has some residual interest in caves, perhaps he would be willing to perform in a cave for some regional gathering of cavers. I don't think the music he produces today would be likely to (literally) bring the house down. -- *From:* Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:36 PM *To:* rdmilhol...@charter.net *Cc:* Minton, Mark; o...@texascavers.com *Subject:* [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves Ah yes, that would have been Don Van Vliet - otherwise known as Captain Beefheart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart They recorded Bongo Fury in 1976 right here in Austin at the World Armadillo Headquarters. -WaV On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, RD Milhollin rdmilhol...@charter.net wrote: Definitely Wakemen, sans Yes. The album was recorded live, with a full orchestra if I remember correctly. I seem to remember he set out on a tour with the whole ensemble, but the costs were too great and it ended before schedule. Unrelated, I seem to have a foggy memory about a former sideman of Zappa, from the Bongo Fury (recorded in Austin, center of …) days who after going solo concentrated on mood music and established Cave Records somewhere in NC. This is a stretch, but I think his studio was in a real cave. -- *From:* Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] *Sent:* Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:42 PM *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves Gill, The musical bill-of-fare was Jethro Tull's Journey to the Center of the Earth I was a big Jethro Tull fan, but I've never heard of that one. Neither has http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/songs.html and http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/disco.html. Maybe it was someone else? Rick Wakeman of Yes had an album by that name. Mark Minton
[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves
Ah yes, that would have been Don Van Vliet - otherwise known as Captain Beefheart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart They recorded Bongo Fury in 1976 right here in Austin at the World Armadillo Headquarters. -WaV On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, RD Milhollin rdmilhol...@charter.net wrote: Definitely Wakemen, sans Yes. The album was recorded live, with a full orchestra if I remember correctly. I seem to remember he set out on a tour with the whole ensemble, but the costs were too great and it ended before schedule. Unrelated, I seem to have a foggy memory about a former sideman of Zappa, from the Bongo Fury (recorded in Austin, center of …) days who after going solo concentrated on mood music and established Cave Records somewhere in NC. This is a stretch, but I think his studio was in a real cave. -- *From:* Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] *Sent:* Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:42 PM *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves Gill, The musical bill-of-fare was Jethro Tull's Journey to the Center of the Earth I was a big Jethro Tull fan, but I've never heard of that one. Neither has http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/songs.html and http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/disco.html. Maybe it was someone else? Rick Wakeman of Yes had an album by that name. Mark Minton
[Texascavers] [TSA Landfund Idea]
Kicking around another idea for the dispensation of TSA Landfund monies... Recently I spoke with Gustavo Vela-Turcott of Mexico, he was a member of a recent trip to Krubera. The only North American to go. He wants to go back, but needs sponsors. While not a TSA member per se, perhaps he could be an honorary member and get some financial help for his trip with the TSA as a sponsor. Just an idea to make a tiny bit of the money do something really cool. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Journey to the Center of the Earth
AGREED! On Jul 11, 2008, at 12:20 PM, mark gee wrote: Maybe us cavers should make our on Movie. Since we all know so much about caves. - Original Message From: Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com To: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com; Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:17:12 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Journey to the Center of the Earth Went on IMDb and found the latest review (8 stars): Hey there! I was able to go to Knoxville, TN, to catch the world premiere of this movie where I actually met Brendan Fraser, Josh Hutcherson, and the director. They were all three very nice! The movie is very fun with not having to think at all. I've never read the book, so I have no idea how true to the book it is. The movie clocks in at 92 minutes, which is a great length. I saw it in the REAL 3D, and I am so glad I did. The new technology makes the 3D just incredible. Some of the special effects were very much animated and you could tell, but the movie itself is visually stunning, very entertaining, has no bad language, nudity, nor sex scenes. My vote is that for a good 1.5 hours of entertainment with your family, this is the movie for you! Oh yeah, it opens on July 11th, 2008--my 34th birthday! I think that we can't take a movie like this too seriously. Mainly go for the special effects (which I hear are pretty good). Louise From: bmixon...@austin.rr.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:12:36 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Journey to the Center of the Earth Speaking (so to speak) of Journey to the Center of the Earth, I see advertised in the newpaper a 3-D movie with that title, opening nationwide. Is that sure to be a turkey, or what? -- Mixon -- You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Explore a cave?
that's really wierd! Apparently it is above the water table. It otherwise seems that it would fill up with water. -WaV On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Allan B. Cobb a...@oztotl.com wrote: Mark Minton wrote: I haven't been in it, but there is such a cave right there in Texas. Tarbutton's Showerbath Cave in Hays County goes under the Blanco River, and it is not a dive trip. Yep, I've been there. The entrance is just above river level and right next to the river. You can come out of the cave walk a few feet and jump in the river. There is a room under the river with a small crack that water pours through (that is the shower bath). You can stick your hand up into the crack and actually stop the water flow. The limestone is not more than a couple of feet thick between you and the river. It makes caving there kind of creepy! Allan
Re: [ot_caving] politics / iran / isreal
It seems that Washington has its Biblical fundamental ties to Isreal. Washington also has its financial/oil ass-kissing ties to the Saudis. Saudi Arabia is a SUNNI muslim country - which are apparently moderate. Many other of the SHIITE muslim countries are sworn enemies of the US. That's it in a nutshell. (Help! get me out of this nutshell!) -WaV On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 8:53 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Iran is in the news again. They seem to be reacting to recent military events that Israel was participating in. I know almost nothing about the Iran / Israel relations or why things are unpleasant between the 2 countries. I have never understood why the U.S. has such a great interest in Israel compared with say Bolivia or Iceland? Maybe it is because nobody wants to annihilate Bolivia or Iceland, especially somebody like a nation such as Iran. Is our federal government supposed to police the middle east for the next 50 years or 100 years? How much money are we and our kids and grandkids supposed to donate for that risky investment.Given the choice, would you rather not donate to a cause that has a higher probability of success like the cure for athletes foot. Personally, I don't want to see a single penny of mine spent on the middle east. Sure I would like to protect the caves over there or see some tourist sites, but not for the high cost the U.S. has spent for the last 50 years over there and the future 50 years. I think the future of the middle east is clear. A very very expensive and sad and violent series of events for 100's if not 1000's of years. I think both Obama and McCain's strategies suck to the point of almost being idiotic. One solution might be to just call the whole middle east the United Republics of Israel, and get rid of anybody that stands in the way. The other solution is for the U.S. to annex the whole region and treat it like Puerto Rico, and get rid of all the theological legal bodies. We could also try to kiss up to Iran and try very hard to be their best friend.I don't see that happening, and I don't believe that will work. They will just infiltrate the U.S. and try to gain power. They might even try to purchase the Chyrsler Tower. Imagine that happening??? So given the choices, I think we need to go with the least expensive route.But will the world and the Arabs overseas forgive us for that. Obama won't do it that way, and I doubt McCain will either. I am sure Bush wishes he could. David - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Religion is off-topic
Why post OT events on the list instead of the OT-list, then? hm? -WaV Keep the earth clean! It's not like it's Uranus! On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: This is a gentle reminder that the discussion of religion on this list-serve has now become off-topic... Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] OT again?
It is SO G.D. easy to reply to it on the OT list. I apologize for not having done so. I cannot imagine why others have not either. Its easy enough I guess to just REPLY - after all - someone ELSE started it -WaV On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 2:15 PM, tra...@oztotl.com wrote: Ok, just the other day I defended this list serve because it had been so pleasant of a place where topics of caving, and things caving related took place. I defended it to an upcoming leader of a Texas grotto who told me about the horror stories he has heard regarding the religious debates, diatribes, complete and total off topic rants that fill up the inbox. Just about the time I try hard to defend Texascavers and he actually listens to me telling him that every once in a while some good info that might help his growing grotto WILL actually come out, this OT subject comes up again and has already spawned a lot of responses.. If he has signed on and is reading this, I am sorry I ever suggested you join this listserve, the breeders and supporters of these OT subjects will obviously never change. You all may also consider that religion tends to be very poignant no matter which religion it is or isn't. This will hopefully remind you that some of you unfiltered and unwarranted beliefs might very easily offend some of your fellow cavers. Why would you want to do that? Anyways, I will bet that many reading this have been enjoying the caving related bliss of this (caving related) list serve, and I ask that we don't go back down this path, yet again.. If so, good people, like the upcoming grotto leader, will be out of touch with the local caving world because the list serve is mostly defunct, and I would hate to see that.. TS Religion/ *re·li·gion, *noun A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. -Invisible man who makes things -Things happening by themselves over an un-monitorable period of time in contradiction to accepted laws of physics Either one fits the bill I suppose. And from the perspective of the 'believer' of any opposing view, the other will appear to be ignorant or simplifying things to ease ridicule. But yah, OT... and once again I'm sucked into it like a black hole... -B On 7/10/08, speleoste...@tx.rr.com speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote: Is this OT? Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: As we used to say in East Texas, Same difference. Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:54:52 -0700 From: stefan.crea...@arm.com To: gprichm...@gmail.com; bmorgan...@aol.com CC: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Hippie chix, healing That's just *one* religion. What about the hundreds of other ones? -Original Message- From: George-Paul Richmann [mailto:gprichm...@gmail.com] Explain the difference between 'illusory' forms of religion and religion? George Carlin had a pretty good diatribe on the subject. ;-) Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! --GP On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:32 AM, bmorgan...@aol.com wrote: What do shamanic rituals, holographic medicine, holistic healing, and spiritualism all have in common besides old hippie chix? They are all entirely illusory forms of religion! Sleaze-- George-Paul Richmann (513) 490-3100 gprichm...@gmail.com -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT again?
If you can't say it to someone's face, say it around a campfire or shout it out loud in a crowded airport terminal, don't post it here. Don Arburn On Jul 10, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Stephen Fleming casto...@gmail.com wrote: tra...@oztotl.com wrote: Anyways, I will bet that many reading this have been enjoying the caving related bliss of this (caving related) list serve, and I ask that we don't go back down this path, yet again.. TS Where is Locklear and his LED lights when you REALLY need him? -- Stephen Fleming __ I'm still running against the wind – Bob Seger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Geico Gecko
He never had a chance. Not even enough time to try to sell me insurance. I was sprinting up the concrete stairs on my way to get in my car - I didnt even see him. Crushed by my Tevas This unfortunate tiny creature. Only 2 1/2 inches long - broken - some parts flattened - he didn't even know what hit him. Nearly unrecognizable and faultless. He never did anyone any sin. With some glee I'd kill a roach twice his size. But this is different. A tiny little critter with a skeleton, reptile eyes and a brain. No scurrying. No infant insect eating. No more. -WaV
[ot_caving] Re: Alaska refinery
That is a very good point. I wonder what the closest siesmic stable area there is closest to the port of Prince William Sound? The earthquake that occured back in 1964 (?) was one of the most energetic ever recorded! That will happen again, right? No one can tell when. When I was up there - there was still some evidence of the quake - like a tidal plain that once wasn't there and the persistent remains of some once stable log buildings. BTW - On the ABC news tonight they were talking about Coal into gasoline. Refineries in South Africa are producing crude from coal at a cost of $20 a barrel. Gasoline produced from coal is much cleaner than what comes from petroleum - too bad the processing creates so much CO2 - it seems like there has to be a way around that... -WaV On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 2:57 PM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: A thought on the refinery in Alaska. The short summer and other factors might make it not very cost efective to refine in Alaska. Also there are the ice fogs created by the power plants - it might be worse with a refinery. I have had to drive in it Ugg! Then the chance of a quake in the Anchorage area like the last one. There were large cracks in the earth as far up as Fairbanks. Then ther are permafrost melts under the roads and I would think it would make for a problem finding a place to build. You have to watch were you build a house and I have seen the road south out of Fairbanks have dips that were feet not inches from this.
Re: [ot_caving] Russia's Gazprom Talks Up European CNG Refuelling Network
Well - not TRYING to sound like Locklear, but - I predict CNG and LNG will become important transportation fuels. H4C is just about as plentiful and replenishmental as it gets - It already exists and our wastes readily produce it as well. Millions of pounds of food waste go out to the landfills around Austin every day. It can't be re-used as food (well some of it could, but that would just be *too much trouble *for restaurants who don't really care about those who cannot afford to eat haute cuisine) So why not use this waste as fuel - it sure makes a WHOLE lot more sense than using food from the TOP of the food production chain! Anaerobic reprocessing of food waste seems to be the most efficient means possible. Besides, its good karma. -WaV Keep the Earth Clean! It's NOT Uranus! On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:34 AM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: Look who is working on a strong hold on Europe's NG supply! Ummm! Wonder if they take it? At the same time there is info on French Biogas at the bottom of this email. I know my town is setting up our dump site for future bio gas as they have had one or more offers to buy the gas at a pretty good price and will put in the equipment at no cost to the city. The city has to place and cover the trash in some frame work and this means some seperation (that was going on anyway) of trash. Quinta Market Developments Sourced NGV Global Friday, 27 June 2008 00:00 Russia, Moscow Alexei Miller, CEO of Gazprom - Russia's state-controlled gas giant - announced that the company would like to develop a network of CNG filling stations for automobiles all across Europe. I would like to announce Gazprom's new initiative. We are offering our European partners to consider together a project to set up an extensive network of natural gas filling stations in Europe with Gazprom's participation, Miller, who is also deputy chairman of Gazprom's board of directors, told the company's annual shareholder meeting in Moscow. Miller said CNG could be the best alternative for traditional petroleum fuels. There is no any real alternative for the use of hydrocarbons at present or in the next decades, Miller said, adding that an attempt to replace motor fuel with biofuels has lead to a threat of the global food crisis. Gazprom has massive resources at its disposal. If their offer is taken up by European partners, this could result is a major growth shift for NGVs in Europe. Market Developments Sourced NGV Global Wednesday, 25 June 2008 00:00 France *Capacity to service 210 light vehicles* Veolia Environmental Services Ile-de-France is to establish their first French unit producing biomethane from biogas. The project was established in collaboration with Veolia Environnement's Cleanliness and Energy Research Center (CRPE) and recovers biogas in the form of biomethane on its non-hazardous landfill site of Claye-Souilly (France, 77). This new process, currently in the industrial project phase, will be implemented in the second quarter of 2009. It will produce 60 Nm3/hr of biomethane fuel from 200 Nm3/hr of biogas captured in the landfill, representing the energy requirements of a fleet of 210 light vehicles. From an environmental point of view, biomethane is a renewable fuel and presents a positive carbon balance, compared with the use of natural gas or other fossil-based fuels. For example, the replacement of diesel by biomethane fuel would offset a light vehicle's average emission of 140g/km of CO2, i.e. 882 tons of CO2 per year for a fleet of 210 light vehicles, based on an annual consumption of 30,000 km/year/vehicle. Pascal Peslerbe Veolia Environmental Services Ile-de-France's Treatment Director said, With this industrial pilot, Veolia Environmental Services will develop an area of expertise that complements its energy recovery activities by the direct production of a renewable fuel that is a substitute product for fossil energies, and for natural gas in particular. Veolia Environmental Services, on its Claye-Souilly site, carries out material recovery (sorting center for economic waste, wood crushing facility, tire crushing facility, bottom ash treatment center) and energy recovery activities (production of electricity from the biogas generated by waste fermentation, with a 26MW power equivalent to the annual consumption, excluding heating, of 228,000 inhabitants).
[ot_caving] An option to drilling OIL
I heard mention of this the other day on Earth and Sky radio programette. It sounds to me like a very fine alternative to importation of crude from the mideast or alchemy of turning coal into oil. Sulfur, I believe, is virtually non-existent in natural gas (well, except maybe for YOUR natural gas) and the idea of transforming gas or methane into liquid, IMO is a good idea for planning of future transportation fuels. http://www.earthsky.org/clear-voices/52609/carl-mesters -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Wind energy Texas
Tornadoes are random and sporadic events. But, I do wonder if the 1.5 Megawatt state-of-art wind turbine could survive one. - or a hurricane - or those freakish straight line winds that do tornado-like damage. -WaV On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Terry Holsinger tr...@sprynet.com wrote: That also means we have more installed then Denmark (only 3,136MW). AND we are still building as fast as they can erect them. Currently at about three million (per 1.5MW capacity tower) each thats a lot of money the private energy company's are spending. And it is a lot of maintenance to keep them up. Hope the wind stays within range so someone can see that power to make a return on their investment. Terry H. qui...@clearwire.net wrote: Would you believe Texas has almost twice the amount of wind energy - installed - than Calif? Texas had 4,296 Megawatts and Calfi had 2,439 in 2007. That makes us a big part of the US total of 16.596 for 2007. Calif and Texas had about the same in 2006. 2739 in Texas and 2,376 for Calif. - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling
Hmmm. maybe I need to adjust my slide rule more calculations inevitably will be distributed -WaV On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: And I heard on the news this morning that by 2010, gas will be $7-10/gal. -- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:54:08 -0500 From: wavyca...@gmail.com To: mikef...@att.net CC: o...@texascavers.com Subject: Re: RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling And LET ME - Not David Locklear this time - make this assertion/prediction: If you think your electric bill is high now - just wait until you charge up your car every night with house current! I will bet that you're looking at a $500 per month increase (above your $200 to $300 per month bill) if you get an electric car and IF the grid can support millions of people going electric. A guy who can appreciate what energy it takes to move a couple of tons around - WaV On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Mike Flannigan mikef...@att.net wrote: That is the same media who tells us every couple months about cars that run on water. What morons. Mike On Mon, 23 Jun 2008, power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: Very interesting. I knew that we don't make hydrogen, but that's the term the media uses when reporting it. - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] Solar grocery roof
Well, one of the coolest things about solar panels on the roof: it keeps the roof in the shade! That alone will decrease the amount of energy it takes to cool the building the panels rest upon! That is a savings in itself! -WaV On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 7:38 AM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: It was larger than I remember. it wa Whole Food that is doing 24 % of it's power with Solar and it was in 2002 that it went in. http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/issues/greenaction/solarpower.html Quinta Grocery Chain Tesco USA To Install World's Largest Solar Roofing System Covering 500,000 Square Feet 01/24/2007 *LONDON, UK, AND LOS ANGELES, CA -- *Solar Integrated Technologies, Inc., a provider of integrated photovoltaic (BIPV) roofing systems, has won a $13 million contract from Tesco, the fourth-largest retail chain in the world, for a 2 MW roofing system to be installed at Tesco USA's distribution center under construction in Riverside, California. The 2 MW of Solar Integrated's innovative BIPV roofing system will be installed on two of the five distribution center buildings and will cover 500,000 square feet of the 640,000 square footage of roof space. The project is expected to be completed in 2007. We believe this will be the largest roof-mounted solar installation in the world, stated R. Randall MacEwen, Solar Integrated's President and Chief Executive Officer. We are thrilled to partner with Tesco USA on their exciting entry into the U.S. market. Our BIPV roofing system at this distribution center will produce over 2.6 million kilowatt hours per annum, provide a fifth of the depot's power supply, and save 1,200 tons of carbon dioxide emissions each year. Tesco was founded in London in 1919 by Jack Cohen and started as a market stall, with the first store opening in 1929. The company is expanding into the United States.
Re: [ot_caving] head north of the border Re: [ot_caving] police state news
In THIS country - it would seem profit driven. The vice-laws that is. In my opinion, the system victimizes the victim in any way it can. -WaV's .02 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Nigel Dyson-Hudson n...@cavesar.com wrote: Dave, Now you know what kind of work place you can set-up north of the border. The way you sometimes complain about Texas, maybe you should head north and chill out. grin Canadian Prostitution Laws A much more mature approach -- In Canada, prostitution law enforcement tends to be complaint driven. The complaints are predominantly about street prostitution. ... www.sexwork.com/coalition/canada.html nigel You wrote on: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:37:31 -0500 From: David e-mail: dlocklea...@gmail.com Here is further proof that the police state we are living in, has gotten out of control: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/25/mobile.brothel.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview This would have been a great franchise service that could assist people in tiny rural communities worldwide like McDonald's has. It could have created billions of dollars in revenue, to fund our schools and hospitals. . - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling
And LET ME - Not David Locklear this time - make this assertion/prediction: If you think your electric bill is high now - just wait until you charge up your car every night with house current! I will bet that you're looking at a $500 per month increase (above your $200 to $300 per month bill) if you get an electric car and IF the grid can support millions of people going electric. A guy who can appreciate what energy it takes to move a couple of tons around - WaV On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Mike Flannigan mikef...@att.net wrote: That is the same media who tells us every couple months about cars that run on water. What morons. Mike On Mon, 23 Jun 2008, power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: Very interesting. I knew that we don't make hydrogen, but that's the term the media uses when reporting it. - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] Texas solar power
A couple of things about solar panels: 1. They are very very expensive. 2. The current technology seems to only convert Infrared into electricity. Wide spectrum conversion is being done, but only on the panels that go into space - that kind of panel is 10 times more expensive. I know someone that put together somewhere around 200 square feet of panels. Something like 20 foot wide by 10 feet. It works great. This time of year, for 8 to 10 hours a day it generates 2Kw - around noon as much as 2.5Kw. (cooling them with a wate hose will momentarily boost them up to 3Kw) As long as the sun is out. Cloud shadow drops output to less than 1Kw. The cost - and he got them REAL chep - was about 25,000 dollars. Then consider a $5K gadget that puts that energy back on the grid. At even fifteen cents per kilowatt hour - how long do you think it will take for this to pay itself off? (Answer: Longer than those panels last - unless the cost for electricity exceeds .30 /per Kw hour) The government needs to SERIOUSLY consider MAJOR RD tax credits, but until then Think Nuclear - WaVy On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:48 PM, RD Milhollin rdmilhol...@charter.net wrote: This all smell like a plan of, by, and for the big corporate energy providers. What about using all the empty roof-top space INSIDE the cities, such as the roofs of malls, Walmarts, grocery stores, car lots, parking lots, strip-centers, individual homes, apartment buildings etc. I can see this as a job opportunity for the Barnett Shale landmen once all the drillable real-estate is leased up. They could go from roof-owner to roof-owner negotiating for roof-rights to set up solar panels for set amounts of time. Shrewd building owners could bargain for a certain amount of free electricity, since the juice coming off the roof is much more consumer-friendly than crude oil or natural gas brought up by wells on people's property. -- *From:* qui...@clearwire.net [mailto:qui...@clearwire.net] *Sent:* Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:41 AM *To:* o...@texascavers.com *Subject:* [ot_caving] Texas solar power Well this is some info I found today pasted below. It comes from http://environmenttexas.org/action/clean-energy/transmission?id4=ES I was interested in the numbers they say would power all of Texas. Just FYI. Quinta Texas is the national leader in wind power and we have the potential to meet the rest of our energy needs with solar power. In fact, if we put solar panels on an area thirty miles by thirty miles in west Texas, we could generate enough electricity to power the entire state at prices competitive with new nuclear plants! But to bring all that clean wind and solar power from west Texas, we need to invest in our transmission grid. Right now, the Public Utilities Commission is deciding how much renewable energy transmission to build. The most ambitious plan they're looking at would create transmission capacity for almost an additional 18,000 megawatts of wind and solar power, which would reduce smog pollution from power plants by 13% and global warming pollution by 16%.
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
I thoroughly enjoyed the account of that battle in the movie Little Big Man starring (a rather young) Dustin Hoffman. It too was probably historically incorrect - but I imagine it was a fairly close 'personality sketch' of an arrogant and delusional Custer (who reminds me of another person who has unfortunately been put in charge). Does anyone out there know how close the movie came in summarizing the actual events of that fateful day? -WaV On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jim Evatt nmca...@comcast.net wrote: Osiyo, Unakas: Many misstatements. Tsalagi (Cherokee) were definitely not there. The N.A. encampment consisted mainly of Northern Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Lakota. The Seventh under Custer consisted of 211 troops and officers, not five. Five refers to companies of troops, or the five accompanying civilians. The battle took place in 1876, not 1865. 1865 had it's own famous and infamous events. Custer deserved much worse than he got. His troops were forced by him into the greatest mass U.S. suicide in history - until Jonestown. For a quick source on the battle, refer to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn Jim Evatt - Original Message - *From:* Dave Belski bel...@valornet.com *To:* wp...@cox.net *Cc:* ak7ar: cox.net ak...@cox.net ; Bob Jenney rjen...@carondelet.org; Bob Kappler bkapp...@azcorrections.gov ; Brian duffybdu...@email.arizona.edu; Caren carentuc...@cox.net ; Chris Weddle chriswed...@hotmail.com ; clarkejanet: msn.com clarkeja...@msn.com ; Dirk dirk.and...@gmail.com ; Dr. Besserman emer...@besserman.com ; Francis Walkerfwalker_s...@hotmail.com; Frank Brady end...@aol.com ; Fred rxs...@cox.net ; Georgegedpr...@comcast.net; Glenn Grape glen.gr...@honeywell.com ; Jake montoya yourbasics...@aol.com ; Jim Gilbreath jbgarchit...@theriver.com ; Jerry Chaconjchacon...@hotmail.com; jlug: prontomail.com j...@prontomail.com ; Joe Luglio jlug...@comcast.net ; Marti Reich lilma...@yahoo.com ; Manny Montoya desertpe...@msn.com ; Mona Johnson balloon...@doglover.com ; Perri Touchetennisfreaktou...@yahoo.com; Rich G. re...@aol.com ; Rob Offerle roffe...@juno.com ; Sam Hornerskhor...@raytheon.com; Scotty Clements sbclem...@earthlink.net ; Shawn happy1...@aol.com ; sloppyflo: yahoo.com sloppy...@yahoo.com ; Steve Smith stevenlsm...@usa.net ; stina_b...@msn.com ; Sue Philpot sue.phil...@triadhospitals.com ; Texascavers Texascavers@texascavers.com ; TCochrane: centurytel.nettcochr...@centurytel.net; timloomis1: msn.com timloom...@msn.com ; Tim Kovacs tkov...@cox.net ; Walter Moffit mcsom...@yahoo.com ; William Decker decker.willi...@phoenix.gov *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:18 PM *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn I think it was Cheyenne Indians not Cherokee Indians involved in the battle. wp...@cox.net wrote: Hello All On this date in 1865, LTC George A. Custer and 5 troops of the 7th Cavalry were masscared by a large force of Cherokee and Souix Indians in the bend of the Little Big Horn. The scuttlebutt has it that one trooper of the 7th thought something certainly wasn't just right about this day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpA_X_7ktnQ Custer had it coming! Walter - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling
Interesting concept. Out west - southwest of Houston, out in the sprawling farmland is a Children's Home which was given a large wind-turbine many years ago. It's long since fallen into disrepair and no longer actually generates power. It hasn't in years. But it's still turning. My brother wanted to buy it - but talks with the facilities' administrators never resolved a plan or price. He took me out there to see it on a very windy day last fall. It's three huge 45 foot long blades swung ominously through the air with the sound of a tennis pros racket at its fastest possible delivery. It's downright scary to think of what could happen when wind turbines go bad! http://youtube.com/watch?v=jOO7YdrFXkMamp;feature=related Oh, the humanity -WaV On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: point was that he thought this is a fad industry which would fall by the wayside and, when wind power was no longer useful, there would be all those machines cluttering up the view. I wonder if his is a majority or minority view.
Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling
What makes ISOLATING hydrogen expensive is the energy cost. (You do not make hydrogen. It is the most abundant element in the universe. Yes, you probably know that anyway) If you consider free energy such as tidal forces - (something that's only just beginning to be harnessed - think 'wind turbines', but underwater) - wind, hydrothermal, solar and nuclear (all of these are FREE - even nuclear is nearly free - it's just that the initial setup costs are astronomical!) Using a source of energy such as natural gas or petroleum to isolate hydrogen is ridiculous. It's ridiculous to make hydrogen with electrical current from the grid too - because that's like using coal to make electricity to isolate hydrogen. I don't know what the loss factor is, but I'm guessing that for every 1000 watts of electrical energy you use at home, that energy started out as 1100 or 1500 watts - because of line and transformer losses - you end up with less than was generated in the first place. And perhaps there are better ways than electrolysis to split hydrogen from water - or maybe to remove oxygen from water so that you've got only hydrogen left... But however it's done - NO, there just ain't no way to get more energy from oxidizing hydrogen than it takes to break it from oxygen! That's just one of those basic laws of physics. Running your car on water is a bunch of HOOEY. It's hard to believe news reporters are so stupid that they could be duped into covering crap like that. Just like that stupid perpetual motion machine. Every system looses energy at every transition. Back to where I was coming from, was that free energy is virtually impossible to use in an automobile of any technology. You cant drive around with a hydroelectric dam strapped to the bed of your truck. Nor would you be able to get under even the tallest overpasses with a wind turbine attached to it. Despite how excited everyone got back in the 50's about powering your car with a small nuclear reactor - its just not practical. But pure hydrogen is more energy concentrated than even gasoline - and it doesn't pollute. I don't know ANYONE that can synthesize gasoline. I sure wish I did! But even I can make alcohol with a bunch of barley and corn, rice or wheat. (barley contains that magic enzyme amylase that converts starches into sugar - sugar then feeds yeast that excrete alcohol). I can also isolate little small amounts of hydrogen with electricity or by dropping zinc into hydrochloric acid - (the latter being far more expensive but a whole lot faster) Maybe there's a better way to 'keep' hydrogen. Consider perhaps a molecule that holds huge groups or chains of hydrogen together just like carbon does in hydrocarbons. Maybe its possible to use electricity and hydrogen in some undiscovered way to turn hydrogen into a hydrogen based man-made 'hydrocarbon-like' molecule that could replace gasoline. When you think about it, is there ANY fuel that DOESN'T contain hydrogen or hydrocarbons of one form or another? Even FOOD contains hydrocarbons in the form of carbohydrates. Is there any fuel that does NOT contain hydrogen? I don't think so. Not unless it's plutonium or uranium. -WaV On 6/21/08, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: I keep hearing that it's more expensive to make hydrogen than the amount you would save. How does your suggestion jibe with that? ot-h...@texascavers.com - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] crime in the city
Tragically funny - the statement about the world in the future being a grim place for my children and my children's children is almost like a self fulfilling prophecy. If more people were truly serious about reducing their footprint - they'd be committed to having no footprints following their own! With NO progeny - -WaV- On 6/20/08, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: You're right about the population. In 2000, there were just about 530,000 people in PDX, making it the most populous city in Oregon and the third most populous city in the Northwest--we're not all that big up here. The demographics, however, are extremely varied (per Wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland%2C_Oregon): As of 2000, there are 529,121 people residing in the city, organized into 223,737 households and 118,356 families. The population density is 3,939.2 people per square mile (1,521/km²). There are 237,307 housing units at an average density of 1,766.7/sq mi (682.1/km²). The racial makeup of the city is 77.91% White, 6.64% African American, 6.33% Asian, 1.06% Native American, 0.38% Pacific Islander, 3.55% from other races, and 4.15% from two or more races. 6.81% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race. 15.3% were of German, 8.9% Irish and 8.8% English ancestry according to Census 2000. 83.3% spoke English, 5.6% Spanish, 2.0% Vietnamese and 1.3% Russian as their first language. So if Houston is so Dog-awful, why are you still living there. I don't know what you do for a living except blog, but surely your job is portable. By the way, where did you grow up that you had to walk to school in snow? Not Houston, obviously. And the house that I lived in when I lived in Houston went on the market last year for $300,000. I happen to know that it was sold to that owner for $15,000 in 1976. Sending out good thoughts to the universe, Louise Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:05:11 -0500 From: dlocklea...@gmail.com To: o...@texascavers.com Subject: [ot_caving] crime in the city Louise, In 1976, I used to walk 2 miles to elementary school in the snow all by myself. I crossed private property, hopped fences, chased wild animals, entered sewer tunnels, took short cuts across industrial work zones. Those were different times, or maybe I was extremely lucky to survive that. I can't imagine a kid doing those things today. Inner city Houston 2008, is almost as bad as the Kurt Russell movie Escape From New York. You don't walk or bicycle,in the 1st ward, 2nd ward, or 5th ward, alone at night. Especially in the remote areas of those areas. That is were Search groups 1st go look for bodies. You would probably have to spend $ 200,000 on a house to live in the inner city and not be in the ghetto. And the taxes would kill you. I have never been to Portand, but I bet it doesn't have 5 million people within a 100 mile radius. I don't believe there is any town with a melting pot like Houston. We have every single nationality here. We maybe New York has more Puerto Ricans, or Jews or Catholics. But we have them beat on the Iranians, the Iraquis, the Pakistanis, the Mongolians, the Mexicans, the Guatamalans, the Hondurans, the Costa Ricans, the Panamanians, the Peruvians, the Columbians, the Equadorans, the Brazilians, the Chileans, Chinese, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Phillipinos, the Vietnamese, the Africans, the African-Americans, etc. I just don't think what works in one town will necessarily work in Houston. Latinos don't like to sit next to Blacks on the bus, especially if they are in gangs. I think what I am trying to say, is that I would rather live in Portland. David Locklear - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling
Here's an idea: What about turning all of that electricity generated by a wind turbine into hydrogen? Right there in the wind turbine itself. Using water and electrolysis. If hydrogen truly is going to be the portable energy source (for fuel cells) would it not make the most sense to produce the hydrogen at the source rather than losing electrical energy as it is transmitted through transmission lines? (Producing massive amounts of hydrogen would probably also be a great idea at the site of nuclear reactors. Free oxygen released into the atmosphere would probably not hurt either!) The concept is already in play. One interesting obstacle is what occurs when metals are exposed to hydrogen. I think the process is called hydrogenation and it makes metal brittle and weak. But isolated from the tower by an isolating layer of plastic, the large mast that makes the big wind turbine tower becomes a nice storage tank for compressed hydrogen. Compressing the metal tube from within would actually make the mast stronger - but only up to the point that the stress might make the tower stressed - but otherwise would make the tubular mast stiffer. On 6/21/08, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: From what I hear, one of the really big problems in the US is that no new refineries have been built here in 30 years. What's up with that? Answer: NIMBY. Even if we get more oil, what are we going to do with it? Also, think oil shale and oil sands. I hear that they're doing some imaginative things with oil shale, such as heating it while it's still in the ground and then pumping from there rather than excavating huge holes in the ground.. Also, apparently Canada is right on top of the oil sands business. From: quinta@clearwire.netTo: power_lou...@hotmail.com; fh...@townandcountryins.com; ot@texascavers.comDate: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:56:29 -0500Subject: Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling Fritz, My complaint is that we started after many and did not devote enough government resources to it. Most of Europe did. Even Spain was ahead of us at one time and still is I think. We lost sight of the OPEC oil problem in a hurry. There is a new company in Idaho? (if my memory is right) that is from Spain and is building turbins. I think it opened in the last year. We are behind on a lot of this. The states that are doing well are the ones with state incentives. There was a new Senate hearing on this sort of thing - ummm! This is from the BWEA in the UK. It is clear to see how much wind energy has taken off in some countries, notably Denmark, Germany and Spain, the first of which now gets 20% of it's electricity from wind turbines, compared to our 1%. However, the UK has the largest wind energy resources of any country in Europe, and now that the European market's economies of scale have driven the price of wind energy down, the UK is set for a massive expansion of clean energy. For more information about wind energy in Europe read this report commissioned by the European Union in 2004. Also visit www.ewea.org our European sister organisation. They speak in terms of TWh - I need to look up what that is past MW. The exploitable onshore wind resource for the EU-25 is conservatively estimated at 600 TWh and the offshore wind resource up to 3,000 TWh; the upper end of this far exceeding the EU-15's entire electricity consumption. The European Wind Atlas produced by the Danish national research laboratory, Forskningscenter Risø, gives a good overview of the EU potential. An offshore version is also available. - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] My solar cell set up
You might have seen pictures I've posted of him standing in a 15 foot hole in his back yard in NW Houston outskirts (for concrete anchors for upcoming heavy tower to support 10 to 15 kW wind turbine). This is my brothers array - he generally pulls in about 2kW with these panels - about 8 hours a day during the summer. He puts this directly back on to the grid. If you want to ask him any questions, you can reach him at rcoo...@applied-avionics.com. -Don C On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Very nice Bill, what are the plans for it? On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net wrote: http://www.caver.net/images/solar%20and%20battery%201.JPG - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] [In case you are interested in the T.C.M.A., don't know already!]
The TCMA now has a member and interested party list server for the latest news and information about the TCMA. An e-mail is typically sent out monthly. If you'd like to subscribe to the news list, please sent a blank e-mail to: tcma-list-subscr...@tcmacaves.org. The subscription is automatic! This is NOT a public discussion list. The Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) is a non-profit organization dedicated to the study and management of Texas cave resources. TCMA supported by a wide cast of contributors, all of whom serve vital roles in preserving our Texas caves. Our membership includes landowners, scientists, land stewards, cavers, school officials, teachers, kids, and parents to name a few. --- Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com 2009 15th International Congress of Speleology Transportation Coordinator NSS# 56822RL - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Re: Canned cave food- Gourmet or gourmand?
Dr. G ...of that of a... perhaps would be the proper tense. Yeah - I re-checked. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gourmand) Yup, I still know. -wAv On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp a...@gluesenkamp.com wrote: WaV, I appreciate the compliment. You *DO* know the definition of gourmand, don't you? Andy Quoting Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com: Andy - I still hold you, your insights, opinions and your abilities, personally, within semi-high esteem, but I will NEVER, EVER consider your opinions or creations or evaluations of food within miles of a gourmand... -WaV On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp a...@gluesenkamp.com wrote: Waaay better than a canned cheeseburger. canned bacon (precooked!) http://thesiblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/more-canned-bacon.html Look at the pics and tell me that you are not hungry for a BLT. Andy Yum! Burger in a can!! http://gizmodo.com/350091/cheeseburger-in-a-can-is-both-the-best-and-worst-thing-ive-ever-seen T.. a review with pictures: http://thesiblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/canned-hamburger-pics-and-review.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Andy Gluesenkamp 700 Billie Brooks Lane Driftwood, TX 78619
Re: [Texascavers] cave food - part 3.1
On Jun 18, 2008, at 7:09 AM, Ted Samsel wrote: Yum! Burger in a can!! http://gizmodo.com/350091/cheeseburger-in-a-can-is-both-the-best-and-worst-thing-ive-ever-seen T.. a review with pictures: http://thesiblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/canned-hamburger-pics-and-review.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] sex and marriage
DAVE just STFU! On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 11:17 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: I have questions for all the people that support gay marriage. What is the fundamental moral conflict with the difference between 2 men marrying each other, and 3 men marrying each other? Or between 2 woman and 3 woman? Can a bi-sexual person be married to both a man and woman and still love and provide support for them both? If not, why? Can a 70 year old rich man marry and attractive 17 year old boy? Can a man marry his adoptive son? Or a woman marry an adoptive daughter? If a man divorces an man and has adoptive boy and remarries a man, what rights does the boy have? Will the man who is out of the picture be required to support the child, and will the child be required to visit all 3 gay men. Can 2 brothers marry? Can 2 sisters marry? Can a young man marry his father or grandfather? Can a young woman marry her mother or grandmother? I think we should just outlaw all marriages. Based on my experience with it, I would rather have been tarred and feathered. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/1774_lynching.jpg David Locklear - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Canned cave food - part 3.2
Andy - I still hold you, your insights, opinions and your abilities, personally, within semi-high esteem, but I will NEVER, EVER consider your opinions or creations or evaluations of food within miles of a gourmand... -WaV On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp a...@gluesenkamp.com wrote: Waaay better than a canned cheeseburger. canned bacon (precooked!) http://thesiblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/more-canned-bacon.html Look at the pics and tell me that you are not hungry for a BLT. Andy Yum! Burger in a can!! http://gizmodo.com/350091/cheeseburger-in-a-can-is-both-the-best-and-worst-thing-ive-ever-seen T.. a review with pictures: http://thesiblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/canned-hamburger-pics-and-review.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] cave food - part 4 The Next Level
Food for Cave Men (there, I'm on topic) These are for you Joe http://www.thesneeze.com/mt-archives/cat_steve_dont_eat_it.php - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] computer news
Geez Charles - What kind of games take so much video co-possessing power? I'd think it would take a whole lot less hardware to support very smooth display and accurate response of the very best flight simulators! -DC On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: David, dual processor video cards are already here, I purchased this card a week ago: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007730 I'm a gamer, so keeping up with the technology is a hobby of mine :) I thought I got a great deal on this card, but I didn't research it properly. Once I had the card in hand, it wouldn't work.
Re: [ot_caving] Bio fuels and the pump....
I've heard gasoline prices in the UK are about 8$ /gal - most of that being tax revenue for the government. (How it's being spent appears to be a matter of speculation and distrust among the British public.) (The sign that goes with the BBC news article would suggest a Biodiesel price of US $8.92 per gallon!! At that price you could probably use unused cooking oil as a diesel substitute! I've heard that this had been going on in Germany.) Its not hard to imagine how this wouldn't be profitable for US biodiesel suppliers, but surely it seems difficult to imagine how all the biodiesel in this country wouldn't cost LESS than petroleum-based diesel! (In that there are no tarrifs on imported B.D. - that's the BRITS own fault!) It really gets me that gasoline in Mexico is around $2 a gallon - Diesel being even cheaper - but I'd have to pay a substantial duty on more than a large tankful - so its no way feasible to go down to Mexico and fill up a tanker truck - its simply not allowed by the nationalized petroleum industry of Mexico. Wouldn't we all love it if Mexico was dumping cheap gasoline and diesel in Texas? Instead we're paying for foreign oil that's 10 to 20 bucks per barrel higher than US sweet crude! Here is a link to an exchange traded fund that reflects the price of US sweet crude: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=USO#symbol=USO;range=1y -WaV On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 8:50 AM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: It might get better if we had it in a few more gas stations. The big boys are not happy with any product other than oil. Quinta
[ot_caving] David Locklear - please help with the following market research
As you frequently seem to have a lot to say about flat-panel LCD units at ridiculous price points - How about some info that I might really find useful for a change? What's the largest units that you can find for $600? -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Noah's Ark and Iowa
Get back to work, David On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:22 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: With all the flooding going on in Iowa, now would be a good time to test the Noah's Ark Theory. If Noah could build a boat all by himself, and at the same time find all the animals in the world and sort out the best male and best female of the bunch, and get them all loaded on his boat, and then stay afloat for 40 days, then surely some creative person can try a smaller size experiment with modern tools and in Iowa (where the worst flooding is about to take place in our lifetime. ) I am 100 percent certain that Noah did not build a boat.Instead he built a large platform that was anchored in place. That is why they called it an Ark and not a boat. If it is true that he built it alone, than I doubt it was any bigger than a oil-tanker. I am a 100 per cent certain that it did not have bats, or daddy long-legs, or the birds that dive in and out of Golondrinas. And I would bet that it didn't have an Indian Rhino or a Panda Bear, cougers, Tasmanian tigers, etc. In addition, assuming it did rain on the entire earth for 40 days, would that be enough to cover up the hills of the Texas Hill Country? Certainly the high peaks of the continental divide would have been way above water. And could Noah without any sailor skills navigate an overloaded wooded boat without sails anywhere but around his local region? I would like to believe that once upon a time a great man with a great vision, was able to build an incredibly large floating barn and that he was able to save hundreds, if not thousands of animals, from a flood like the one that is about to take place in Iowa. Had CNN been there to film Noah, would it have really been regarded as remarkable, or just another stunt for the Guiness Book of World Records? And would the story have gotten more coverage than the Britany Spears of the era? David - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Bat Flight making its way south down Burleson Rd
Where I'm at - I'm probably only about four miles south of Downtown Austin. This evening right after sunset - I saw a intermittent stream of a bats cruising just above the treetops - right over my place and the huge oaks in the yard. There were thousands and thousands of them. I'm assuming they are a part of the Congress Bridge group - I wondered if anyone else living in south east Austin has seen the same thing. A percentage of them dipped down to 'grab a bite' and then flew back up into the horde. It was great. -WaV
Re: [Texascavers] RE: which truck spare parts to take to Mexico?
Yeah - after the Edigre details - I really don't have nuttin' to add Don't forget the WD-40 - that stuff makes excellent hand cleaner. -WaV On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Carl Kunath carl.kun...@suddenlink.net wrote: Mark's comments are a good start. For a more detailed essay, see: http://www.cavetexas.org/mexico/tools.html ===Carl Kunath - Original Message - *From:* Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu *To:* David Ochel li...@ochel.net ; texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:45 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] RE: which truck spare parts to take to Mexico? David, I am wondering which spare parts for your truck y'all usually take with you when going to remote areas? It partly depends on the age and reliability of your vehicle, but I would take at least one of each type of radiator hose and each fan belt, although nowadays you might only have one long serpentine belt that you might not be able to change in the field even if you had a spare. :-( I would also carry a spare fuel pump, injectors, fuel filter, a couple of spark plugs, a thermostat, U-joints, and wheel bearings. Some of these may be available in Mexico, but some may not, especially if you drive an older Toyota or other model of vehicle not sold there. Some of these you could change in the field if you have the proper tools, and others you would still have to get to a shop for, but having the parts once you get there could still save a lot of time. A good tool box is just about as important as the parts, and I also carry a 12-volt compressor and tire plugs. I would also take some fluids, like a couple of quarts of oil, some transmission fluid or gear oil as appropriate, power steering fluid, brake fluid, and coolant. I keep all of this stuff in a couple of milk crates which are always in my truck wherever I go. Mark Minton -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1490 - Release Date: 6/8/2008 5:32 PM
Re: [ot_caving] political question
Answer: The Stark Fist of Removal. Praise Bob! -WaV http://www.subgenius.com/ On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:39 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: What is to stop Hillary from running for president as a 3rd party candidate?
Re: [ot_caving] world news
Indeed. Nostradumbass wrote that the used dress worn by Sarah Jessica Parker is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse. -WaV On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 11:02 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: It sometimes seems by the world news that everything is in chaos. Now the world must deal with the tragic news that Sarah Jessica Parker wore a gown that had been worn previously by 2 other women. Will the human race be able to recover from this setback, or is this the sign that we are now terminally doomed? David - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] French news
Here is your answer: Read every bit of it or you will allways be the same: http://www.subgenius.com/pams/pam2p1.html -WaV On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 5:06 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Have you heard the news about the French court annulling a muslim marriage because the girl lied about her virginity? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/ap_on_re_eu/france_virgin_marriage Who is to say that this will never happen in the U.S.A.? It is my opinion that we should see the warning signs that are going on in France, and have some preventive measures in place now to prevent such ridiculous nonsense from ever occurring. Ironically, the girls punishment back home will be to be gang-raped by all the men on the tribal council and then stoned, and whiplashed, and finally burned alive to honor the family. David Locklear - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers
Finally - The news WAS that it would be implemented on Jan 1st. When I got in a major fender bender back in March I couldn't find a current copy of my insurance proof card. They gave me a ticket, but was able to contest it without going to court by taking my insurance evidence to the nearest city court tax office or whatever you call it. After waiting in line for thirty minutes to visit a nice clerk behind a desk, they said thank you Mr. Cooper, we'll take care of it. But it was obvious the new neato system was not in place. Otherwise when the cops came to check out the accident - they would have realized I was indeed insured, just by running my license plate or drivers license number. -WaV On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:45 PM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: AUSTIN, TX - Texas Police officers will have a new tool to get uninsured drivers off the road. Officers in Austin will start using the new insurancehttp://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/19419174.html#database next week. It will automatically notify officers whether a driver has valid car insurance, just by entering the license plate number into the system. The insurance database works with information from other databases and is funded by a portion of a $1 fee when you pay your car registration. The Texas Department of Insurance says about one in five drivers is uninsured.
[ot_caving] Unbelievable durabilty - LG VX4500
The cell phone that I dunked in town lake last month just endured something I can hardly believe. I put a load of clothes in the washer while I went out to wash my car - when I put the wet clothes in the dryer I noticed one hell of a thump thump thump noise from the dryer. It turned out to be my cell phone. The darn thing still works. Amazed - WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Insulin - please respond quickly
PS - I went through several of the kits today. I do no think any of them still contain insulin nor syringes. It was only what was printed on the boxes that caused me to think they contained humulin, etc. On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:22 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: You might want to get in touch with the health department. That should have been disposed of through a medical waste company. Definitely DO NOT use it. You never know how it was stored or what else may be wrong with it. Louise -- Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:48:42 -0500 From: wavyca...@gmail.com To: o...@texascavers.com Subject: [ot_caving] Insulin - please respond quickly I've seen diabetics keep their insulin in the refrigerator. While dumpster diving we recently came across a bunch of sealed humulin samples, injectors and needles from an apparently closed down clinic. Having not been refrigerated, would this stuff be of any use to anyone who uses insulin -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] computer news - Vista related
Charles - Is the 'buffer overflow' vulnerability still an issue or is that ancient history? I never quite understood how it could be exploited - I cannot imagine how such an attack could make it past a firewall or even a router anyhow... It was one of my former IT bosses big excuse for not using implementing Linux anywhere. And can you guide me to an up-to-date ISO image for a live BSD Unix? [The BSD logo is the little demon (my guess - a visual acronym for 'daemon')?] The only repositories I could find were at least two years old. I think it would be cool to eventually make a PC work just like a Mac. (It brings to mind an image of the stuffy PC guy in the Mac commercial being moved around like a puppet by the Mac guy). -WaV On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: As Quitna stated, her new computer came with Vista, and most computer manufacturers aren't developing XP drivers anymore. So with some computers (especially laptops), you can't even downgrade to XP. Work gave me a laptop with Vista, I haven't had any problems with it, just having to learn where things are. Wireless support (for my job) is a pain, I've been fighting the security for its wireless all week. I have a mac here at home, I love it. I also have an XP box too, but I use my mac more. I love not having to worry about spyware, rootkits and anti-virus for the mac. It's possible that we'll get that stuff in the future, but I doubt it. Mac OSX is based on BSD UNIX, and using the UNIX file security, it should be pretty virus proof. Charles On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: Hmmm - maybe you should try Apple OS X.. -WaV On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:58 PM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: Vista was loaded on a computer I bought ( the old clunker died) and I was not sure I would like it but I would not go back to XP now. Quinta
Re: [ot_caving] computer news - Vista related
I actually did install Ubuntu on my fastest PC (AMD 64 3500+) which also has a partition dedicated to Fedora 8 - so now its a triple boot. The UBUNTU version was touted as being installed from Windows. I took it to mean that it would switch back and forth between one and the other - but not so. Not without a reboot. Also - although it seemed really 'eager and able' to resolve driver problems I had with my DVD player - it was not successful, no more so than Fedora. Maybe I shouldn't have gone for such a cheap ($40) motherboard - I'm thinking maybe the chipset is my problem - (though it does all work with Windows XP pro) Another problem with UBUNTU - I dont get it - there seems to not be a way to access the thing as root! As it won't allow me to access the largest data partition on my second hard drive because I'm not root... no mp3s - which there are about 100 gig worth on that hard drive. During setup, there was no mention of root or supervisory password. Maybe it just flashed by I'm mysterio'd by that. I did load a root command console utility - I haven't yet tried that out. Weird as well is the way you mount that big data partition when running Fedora and Ubuntu - its WAYYY non intuitive - the old process of mounting a /dev/hdb5 (for example) partition that you'd track down in fdisk and setup with fstab is not valid. Instead - you go to a home window select media and you'd find those unmounted partitions in there. I dunno - it looks like Linux is being muddled by making it more user friendly. I don't think df -aH gives me a clear picture of hard drive usage anymore. I dont see how I'd do it in a non-graphic mode now. One more thing I'd like to find that did work on *Red Hat Linux 9* - was a television card support utility for my 12 year old Hauppage PC TV card. It found me - I didnt have to find it! I havent exactly made an exhaustive search for one - Usually I'd rather be running an environment that runs all my stuff at once - rather than trying to make it do so I should probably get an even newer machine to hack on - to develop as my ideal environment (yet for most of the time - I'm SO enjoying watching streaming video of The Office and Lost on the 'fast desktop') - but other investments have priority. -WaV In the time of Chimpanzees I was a Monkey On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Don, that was just an excuse, sure there have been a varying amount of exploits that utilized buffer overflows, but those get fixed rather quickly. The linux kernel is an evolving animal, with changes and fixes coming out almost daily. I monitor several security mailing lists, that cover linux, windows and mac. I haven't seen a kernel exploit in years come across the list, and you won't find any real geek shying away from the best tool for its job, which is linux a lot of the time. I'm not aware of any good BSD live cd's, but I haven't looked for one either. There are 3 main flavors of the BSD derived opensource, FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD. FreeBSD is the bigger of them and has the most development and install base. However, it is not really suited for a desktop machine. While it has the functionality, only the more proficient UNIX users can make it work the way they want. I ran it as my desktop at work for about 3 years. This mailing list is hosted on a FreeBSD server, but it doesn't use xwindows for the server. For a UNIX desktop, I prefer Ubuntu, and since I like KDE over Gnome (just a personal preference), I use Kubuntu. While its not BSD, but true Linux, it is probably the easiest desktop Linux to get going, it has a large install base, lots of development going on and they religiously release major updates every 6 months. They are currently on release 8.04 (year and month released, April 2008) and you'll likely see 8.10 hit in October. The install cd for ubuntu is a live cd, but it has limited functionality, if you want a fully featured live cd, try out http://knoppix.net/ Astute readers will notice that knoppix is based on Debian, and so is Ubuntu. Knoppix is one of those tools that many geeks carry around for troubleshooting windows computers :) You can also setup Knoppix as your desktop, and carry around a usb stick with your knoppix cd with your personal preferences and settings. That way you can use almost anyones computer, and have your desktop come with you. I've never done this, but its one of its selling points. I've used knoppix on half a dozen different computers and it has always detected everything that I needed, mainly video (so that you didn't get stuck with 640x480 resolution) and the network card so that internet access was available. Hit me with any questions from all of this rambling :) Charles On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: Charles - Is the 'buffer overflow' vulnerability still an issue or is that ancient history? I never quite
Re: [ot_caving] helmet technology
Hear the crickets, David. HEAR the crickets. -WaV On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 3:31 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Is anybody still on this listserve? Sure is quiet out there. Hopefully you are all in a cave and not reading this e-mail. It is my opinion that caving helmets still have a ways to go in the design factor. For example, look how far along snowboard and bicycle helmets have come along in the last 2 or 3 years. http://www.abikestore.com/Merchant2/graphics/0004/fujiilshelmet2.jpg http://www.bikemannetwork.com/Merchant2/graphics/0001/Alt-Bimage/HE8140B.jpg Has anybody tried the new PMI Ventilator yet? http://www.pmirope.com/personal-gear/index.aspx?pageID=28productID=981productMasterID=981 I think the design problem with the kevlar helmets is creating holes for ventilation, and attaching screws and for putting in the webbing. I don't think you are supposed to drill holes in a kevlar helmet? Is that the same for fiberglass helmets? Here is what a $ 700 helmet looks like: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/ProductImages/OG/2008_Suomy_Extreme_Amleto_Replica_Helmet_Gold_Black_Red_White.jpg I want a caver version with bats, and salamanders and speleothems. Here is what a $ 800 helmet looks like: http://www.scuba.com/images/misc/Innovative-Navy-Mark-V-Replica-Helmet-.jpg Here is a $ 900 helmet: http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/grandmaspoils_2001_108451532) Here is a $ 1,000 helmet: http://comfortfirst.com/images/Product/large/3353.jpg Here is a $ 1,100 helmet: http://www.cardboardmemories.com/photos/jets69fh.jpg And a $ 1,500 helmet: http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/creativesports_2000_16685954 The next most expensive helmet belongs to: http://www.shutterpoint.com/Images/1x1transp.gif The most expensive helmet is apparently Neil Armstrongs' that he wore on the fake moon landing shot. David Locklear - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] computer news - Vista related
Hmmm - maybe you should try Apple OS X.. -WaV On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:58 PM, qui...@clearwire.net wrote: Vista was loaded on a computer I bought ( the old clunker died) and I was not sure I would like it but I would not go back to XP now. Quinta
[ot_caving] Insulin - please respond quickly
I've seen diabetics keep their insulin in the refrigerator. While dumpster diving we recently came across a bunch of sealed humulin samples, injectors and needles from an apparently closed down clinic. Having not been refrigerated, would this stuff be of any use to anyone who uses insulin -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] Insulin - please respond quickly
I don't use insulin and CERTAINLY wouldnt use this. The insulin is in sample kits distributed by Lilly. -DC PS - Ms. Powers - Have you complained to windows hotmail live? I tried to respond to your message privately - but recieved this: This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: power_lou...@hotmail.com Technical details of permanent failure: PERM_FAILURE: Gmail tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 SC-004 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. *A block has been placed against your IP address because we have received complaints concerning mail coming from that IP address.* If you are not an email/network admin please contact your E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, we recommend enrolling in our Junk E-Mail Reporting Program (JMRP), a free program intended to help senders remove unwanted recipients from their e-mail list: http://postmaster.live.com (state 13). On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:22 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: You might want to get in touch with the health department. That should have been disposed of through a medical waste company. Definitely DO NOT use it. You never know how it was stored or what else may be wrong with it. Louise -- Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:48:42 -0500 From: wavyca...@gmail.com To: o...@texascavers.com Subject: [ot_caving] Insulin - please respond quickly I've seen diabetics keep their insulin in the refrigerator. While dumpster diving we recently came across a bunch of sealed humulin samples, injectors and needles from an apparently closed down clinic. Having not been refrigerated, would this stuff be of any use to anyone who uses insulin -WaV
Re: [ot_caving] gas supply and demand
Yes, it is indeed do-able. All you need are vehicles with diesel engines, some vats, chemicals and pumps to take out all the glycerin and impurities and filter it all out. It is quite an effective way to go as long as you've got local restraunts agreeable to waste oil take out. -WaV On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: I saw a story on the news the other day about some guy in California (of course) who had converted his vehicle to run on cooking oil which he recycled from local restaurants. He said it worked well and the only downside was that his garage smelled like a French fry. Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:38:50 -0500 From: dlocklea...@gmail.com To: o...@texascavers.com Subject: [ot_caving] gas supply and demand It is my observation that millions of Americans are modifying their cars by putting excessively large chrome wheels on their cars. I am certain that this causes the car to get worse gas mileage. These rims are not aerodynamic and are heavy. In addition, the larger tires they are upgrading to are also using more gas as they are wider. The stress put on the cars axle by these tires is surely going to where out the axle bearings faster. The factories that make all of these rims, and tires and bearings are going to need fuel to keep running. Future cars will have to have lightweight aerodynamic ( meaning ugly ) rims and tires in order to lower their EPA estimated mileage. That was what they did on the Honda Insight. The hybrid drivetrain only played a small role in the high EPA rating. I think it is going to be difficult to make an off-road vehicle that is fuel efficient. But hopefully soon, caver will be able to pick them up dirt cheap as their owners will not be able to put gas in them. David - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] gas supply and demand
Actually it wouldn't have to cost so much. You can have an insert installed that has a bolt through it. After which, gas thieves could just remove the bolt instead of drilling another hole in your tank. The best solution would be to set an example to other gas thieves by installing holes in their scull with a high to medium velocity projectile. But other than killing off the low life - I think the best solutions might possibly be the most cost-effective ones. -WaV On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: It's probably cheaper in the long run just to get a new one. I'm not sure I'd want to drive with a repaired tank. Remember, KA-BOOM! -- From: fh...@townandcountryins.com To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; mark.al...@l-3com.com; wavyca...@gmail.com CC: dlocklea...@gmail.com; o...@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:34:20 -0500 Subject: RE: [ot_caving] gas supply and demand Due to the labor involved, repairing a drilled or ruptured gas tank will be an expensive repair job if you pay someone else to do it. They do not employ practical (cheap) methods. Fritz -- *From:* Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, May 23, 2008 3:17 PM *To:* mark.al...@l-3com.com; Don Cooper *Cc:* David; o...@texascavers.com *Subject:* RE: [ot_caving] gas supply and demand Even worse, there was a story on the news the other night talking about how even if people got locking gas caps, thieves would drill small holes in the gas tanks and drain the gas out that way. Thieves are so much more inventive than we are. They seem to stay one step ahead of any measure we take. Imagine the poor vehicle owner, who turns his key and KA-BOOM!!! -- From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Subject: RE: [ot_caving] gas supply and demand Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 12:42:34 -0500 To: wavyca...@gmail.com; power_lou...@hotmail.com CC: dlocklea...@gmail.com; o...@texascavers.com There was an article in the *Dallas Morning News* this past week addressing this and how restaurants and vendors that collect/recycle this stuff are being robbed blind by grease bandits. May be a great way to make your own fuel, but, yuck! Also read how gas stations are experiencing higher drive offs and people getting their gas tanks siphoned. Better get a locking gas cap, y'all! Later, Mark -- *From:* Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Fri 5/23/2008 12:20 PM *To:* Louise Power *Cc:* David; o...@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [ot_caving] gas supply and demand Yes, it is indeed do-able. All you need are vehicles with diesel engines, some vats, chemicals and pumps to take out all the glycerin and impurities and filter it all out. It is quite an effective way to go as long as you've got local restraunts agreeable to waste oil take out. -WaV On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: I saw a story on the news the other day about some guy in California (of course) who had converted his vehicle to run on cooking oil which he recycled from local restaurants. He said it worked well and the only downside was that his garage smelled like a French fry.
Re: [ot_caving] job opportunity
Are you trying to impress us, David? Just a mere $28 an hour? I know people that make less than that and drive *new *speleo gas guzzling hybrid vehicles! -DC On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 8:56 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: The company I work for is accepting applications for someone with the following skills: Job probably only pays $ 28 per hour, but if you have those skills you can probably try to get $ 32.
Re: [ot_caving] gas prices
Another thing which ISNT being done You can make petroleum out of COAL for about $40 a barrel. Screw ethanol and making diesel out of soybeans! There's a LOT of coal out there - why are we being raped at the gas pump?!?! And while you probably cannot directly pin the world price of oil on Bush - he is the pinhead that destabilized global oil prices - domino style. [I would NEVER vote for anyone who managed to bankrupt every company he had his hands on before getting into politics!!] -WaV On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:30 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: You forgot to ask what would happen if Obama wins, David, which IMHO, I believe he will. Prices will probably go down, as they'll expect Congress and a new president, both Democrat controlled, to look into things. Not that they'll do anything, but, they will look into it. My best guess is that they'll do away with the tax breaks and subsidies the gas companied have been receiving. I'm not crazy about Bush, but if I were he, I would declare a national emergency my last week in office and open up drilling in Alaska, just to show that we were serious about providing our own oil and being less dependent on other unstable countries. Congress just shot down doing this last week. Just my 1/50th of a dollar. Send a SASE for a refund. Mark -- *From:* David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wed 5/21/2008 11:02 AM *To:* o...@texascavers.com *Subject:* [ot_caving] gas prices What political event could take place to increase the price of gas? If John McCain wins, will the prices go up? If Hillary wins, will the prices suddenly go up? Or will the go up immediately anyway no matter who wins? David Locklear - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
