"You seemed to have missed the point Matthias, I have genuine difficulty
that an individual such as yourself would be so truly bothered by a
short video in the MOTD played when you first join a server."
It's so great that you know me.
Yes, I get bothered by each and every ad I hear. I have neve
You seemed to have missed the point Matthias, I have genuine difficulty
that an individual such as yourself would be so truly bothered by a short
video in the MOTD played when you first join a server. Now don’t get me
wrong, I do agree there are some mildly agitating ways to implement adverts
and t
Ads aren't relevant, the solution is just to ignore servers that use them,
and if you ask Valve to try and stop them they will not take the time to
handle cases. They will make a sweeping decision that affects everyone to
stop a handful of things.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Matthias "Instan
I second that. I don't understand why it was removed. Also killstreaks
don't display properly on scoreboard.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:41 PM, HD wrote:
> Can yall put the player counts back up in the TAB menu for each team?
>
> K thx!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valv
You're not up to date on the latest posts.
I actually have seen no one saying QP was added only and because of ads.
I also mentioned why I believe ads are still relevant for QP/the current
situation.
On 19.12.2015 04:04, Robert Paulson wrote:
> I don't think Ads are the only reason QP was imple
If you join a server and don't like how it is operated, they can leave on
their own free will
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> How?
>
>
> On 19.12.2015 04:03, Rowedahelicon wrote:
>
> I don't think it's worth trying to enforce them
> I don't think Ads are the only reason QP was implemented, you need to
keep in mind the QP beta came before Pinion ever did.
This.
I don't know why people keep making up their own alternate version of
history.
People were abusing fake players long before advertising was even a thing.
And even a
How?
On 19.12.2015 04:03, Rowedahelicon wrote:
I don't think it's worth trying to enforce them being said in the
server list or not then, it's more effort that won't happen for a
problem that the player base can solve on their own
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kol
I don't think it's worth trying to enforce them being said in the server
list or not then, it's more effort that won't happen for a problem that the
player base can solve on their own
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> Didn't say that
Didn't say that.
On 19.12.2015 03:53, Rowedahelicon wrote:
I don't think Ads are the only reason QP was implemented, you need to
keep in mind the QP beta came before Pinion ever did.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek
mailto:proph...@sticed.org>> wrote:
Wel
I don't think Ads are the only reason QP was implemented, you need to keep
in mind the QP beta came before Pinion ever did.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> Well, ads are part of the union, if you like it or not. Not saying those
> p
Well, ads are part of the union, if you like it or not. Not saying those
people can go to hell (right now), but transparency is why quickplay
exists and lack of transparency is why community gameplay is excluded.
I've heard a lot of people saying I can go screw myself because the
players can ch
I agree with Matthias regarding the 80/20 rule. If we put this situation
into DreamWorks parlance and remember he film Shrek, what we're dealing
with here is an onion and onions have layers. Obviously, the token system
is not a silver bullet and that was the point in my highlighting the
inherent we
Actually to expand, I agree with spots in that effort on their part may be
unfavorable if they think things are okay the way they are. Mind you, they
have promised us over a year ago they would work on trying to get community
servers something to work with, and they have made no progress on that,
t
Obviously there was a need for QP to offer players transparency and a
constant experience they selected.
On 19.12.2015 03:39, Rowedahelicon wrote:
Why does it need to be a "proper" system when things were okay prior
to QP though?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:28 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kolle
Can yall put the player counts back up in the TAB menu for each team?
K thx!
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 8:28 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li..
Why does it need to be a "proper" system when things were okay prior to QP
though?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:28 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> If they are overwhelmed by adding 2-3 more checkboxes to a menu, I can't
> help them.
> If a proper system, most of i
If they are overwhelmed by adding 2-3 more checkboxes to a menu, I can't
help them.
If a proper system, most of it porting stuff over from csgo, is too much
to ask, they shouldn't allow community servers at all and shut us down
all together tomorrow. It's that simple.
I'm making this effort simp
By tough enough sell, I am essentially stating that convincing Valve that
the benefits of changing the Quickplay system in ways that are favorable to
"community" servers as opposed to the risk of "community" servers abusing
that trust again will be difficult enough to achieve, without the added
dem
I get your concern, but with reasonable limitations this should follow
the 80/20 rule.
If you want a perfect solution for every single possible offense and
catch every sneaky sob then life really isn't for you.
So far this is working out for csgo. A bunch of servers were banned, and
with the o
The token system adds a cost to starting a server, if I'm not mistaken, by
requiring users to have a full steam account. However, many community
hosters out there make a reasonable turn over and would easily be able to
justify the cost of a full Steam account as nothing other than a mild
inconvenie
What do you mean by "tough enough sell"?
On 19.12.2015 03:03, Cats From Above wrote:
Matthias, I cannot help but disagree with the scope you’re proposing.
Getting stock servers back into Quickplay with HTML MOTDs disabled
will be a tough enough sell let alone accommodating HTML MOTDs, custom
I would allow for reserved slots as long as servers don't kick for them if
quickplay is enabled, which is the current system (for example, we offer
hidden reserved slots during the day, but disable quickplay from 5pm-12am
on our highest trafficed servers, and after 6PM to 12AM we do kick for
reserv
Matthias, I cannot help but disagree with the scope you’re proposing.
Getting stock servers back into Quickplay with HTML MOTDs disabled will be
a tough enough sell let alone accommodating HTML MOTDs, custom game modes,
custom maps and non-default configurations.
I believe it would behove of us to
I don't know much about CS:GO server ownership so I don't know how well the
token system works so if someone wants to chip in that would be handy
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> With the token system it won't be as easy.
>
>
> On 19
With the token system it won't be as easy.
On 19.12.2015 02:54, Rowedahelicon wrote:
With QP as it is now, people can still get away with breaking some of
the rules. Will Valve be willing to police trouble makers when it is
so easy to fire up a new server on a new account?
On Fri, Dec 18, 201
With QP as it is now, people can still get away with breaking some of the
rules. Will Valve be willing to police trouble makers when it is so easy to
fire up a new server on a new account?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:52 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> Switch to t
Switch to the token system from csgo, include all servers in the
quickplay pool (sole exception might be servers that offer reserved
slots for cash) but give the players more options. Tag servers properly
so quickplayers can decide for themselves if they want to join a server
that runs ads or n
So how do you combat against it then?
QP isn't as much of a problem as Valve servers are, Valve servers don't
show you what all you can do with the game, provide poor moderation, are
easily susceptible to hackers. The biggest issue is with players, players
who are new to the game do not learn on V
Because MOTDs are actually useful for things other than ads. And I'm
wondering what happens if you join a server which forces you to have
motds activated.
Furthermore quickplay is not the issue. The issue (the reason behind
everything) is traffic. Why even bother and open up the server browser,
We've released a mandatory update for TF2. The update notes are below. The new
version is 3195453.
-Eric
- Fixed a client crash related to the HUD
- Fixed a client crash related to picking up weapons
- Fixed some Mac client crashes related to being out of m
Hey Eric hows it going?
And @Matthias & Robert : The only thing that should remain to be said about
ads is to anyone who wants to blame them for Quickplay getting started in
the first place. I only even say that from me experiences on Reddit trying
to talk about this before, there are people who b
We're working on a mandatory update for TF2. We should have it ready soon.
Apologies for releasing so late on a Friday, but there are a few fixes we need
to get released before the weekend.
Thanks.
-Eric
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And what has this got to do with getting servers back onto the default
Quickplay pool, Matthias? It is my belief that Valve will always keep HTML
MOTDs disabled for Quickplay joins...and that we need to fight the battles
we can win. Hence, getting servers back onto the default Quickplay pool
needs
The average player wouldn't have a bizzare vendetta against community
servers. It takes a dedicated troll to sign up for a server mailing list
and spam insults towards anyone that is pro-community. And as we have seen
from those such as dan "needaxeo" their motivations are probably not the
well-bei
Transparency from whom though in this case?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> I think if a player wants to play on a community server without ads, he
> should be able to get a list of servers meeting the criteria. MOTDs
> actually hav
I think if a player wants to play on a community server without ads, he
should be able to get a list of servers meeting the criteria. MOTDs
actually have a lot of other uses.
At the moment if I join a random community server from within the
browser, I have to assume the worst. How can we fix thi
Well, quite frankly, we could avoid a whole lot of bias issues if the topic
of adverts and internal server policy was ruled entirely out of scope. This
shouldn't be about telling sever ops how they should run and fund thier
servers. Adverts and Quickplay are two different issues in my view –
especi
See we got this~
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> I second this.
> I'd also like to add that the purpose of this group would be more a
> reduction of noise than anything.
>
> Thank you for your statement.
>
>
> On 19.12.2015 01:43, E
I think so yes.
So based on that it makes sense to focus on interfaces and channels that
allow management and efficiency.
-The token change to ban servers
-The group
-More transparency for the player
On 19.12.2015 01:48, Rowedahelicon wrote:
I'm open to either idea, but I think the bottom line
I'm open to either idea, but I think the bottom line should that we strive
for an outcome both preferable to us and the TF2 player base as well, so as
long as we're doing that then we're doing good?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> I
I second this.
I'd also like to add that the purpose of this group would be more a
reduction of noise than anything.
Thank you for your statement.
On 19.12.2015 01:43, E. Olsen wrote:
Yeah, I really don't know how a non-server operator would make a
strong advocate for community servers.
The
@Matthias, oh yes, Ads are a pain the ass to some, but some people have
either found ways around it or have learned to ignore it. Something like
that though in the old times, a player could just find it and go oh wow
this sucks, and will leave to join a new server. See that's another reason
here wh
I don't see any reason why someone needs to be a non-server op to
represent the interests of server ops. The idea is to pick decent
representatives that are server ops, and are willing to represent a
consensus, with the added experience and expertise they have to properly
recognize and understa
Yeah, I really don't know how a non-server operator would make a strong
advocate for community servers.
There are perspectives and insight that can only be gained as someone who
operates game servers, plain and simple. That should be plain enough from
the few people who always weigh in on these is
I would like to note that ads could possibly result in bad rep and less
intent to donate, resulting in a vicious circle where people think "why
should I donate to crappy servers? they have ads and p2w".
I believe that there is simply a lack of transparency. You join a server
and don't know what
Glad the general consensus is that a person who lacks vested interests in
the outcome of discussions is probably best. And curse list moderation
gobling up one of my responses.
On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Andrew T. wrote:
> I agree with Rowaldhelicon.
>
> For me, as a serverop that runs ad
In regards to ads, are we referring to Pinion and that sort or is there
something else I may not be aware of? I ask because I've brought up in here
before that Valve has used Pinion / Pinion ads to host their own officials
servers in the past. Those sneaky ad plugins put a lot of flak towards us
se
Not necessarily, I've had people from my group tell me about how great it
is and how annoying it's been what Valve has done. Though I feel maybe that
would be more of someone wanting to see *my* community do good and less
interested in the how / why. But I dunno, it's hard to say.
And hey no need
I agree with Rowaldhelicon.
For me, as a serverop that runs ads(on a server in the top 30), it is extremely
hard to be unbiased about the thing.
From one point, yes, the ads annoy a few people, and some have expressed
concern - for whom I have disabled them.
From the other side, however, there'
A non server op also wouldn't care about servers. Simple as that. Yes,
you should pick multiple people, and the right ones. But yes, you should
at least pick someone who represents your party. Not only in terms of
having an actual representative, but someone who shares the expertise
and point o
I think a non serverop would be great.
The personal investments are what drives everyone the way it does I
imagine, but a non server op wouldn't need to care about a particular
server, just the game itself. I think finding a candidate though would be
difficult, unless we put together some input po
Actually, that seemed fairly heated on both sides. But using an outside
perspective, e.g. A "non-serverops", as your moderating ground is not a bad
idea.
Someone without a vested interest and therefore not subject to the bias that
server operators would naturally have would be able to weigh up
Isn't it weigh in*?
Anyway, jeez this blew up fast. We're not going to get anywhere if we
bicker back and forth though. No one is trolling anyone, we're all just
from different perspectives and offer different viewpoints. This is the
sort of thing why a discussion needs to take place, we are not t
Yep, trolling.
Thanks for making it obvious.
Anyone with an actual constructive interest wants to way in?
On 19.12.2015 00:47, Cats From Above wrote:
Firstly, if the group was to be an official channel (which will never
happen) then there is good reason why someone without vested interests
i
Firstly, if the group was to be an official channel (which will never
happen) then there is good reason why someone without vested interests in
server hosting should be channeling the discussion back to Valve. I'll use
Mathias as an example. Matthias is very clearly anti-advertising and
believes th
Before quickplay there used to be 20+ custom game mode servers filled 24/7
and now you think it is acceptable that only 4 of them can be popular now?
And most of them succeeding only by ripping models from gmod and changing a
few numbers on a plugin? Most good custom servers are dead and the ones
l
GSPs have definitively established the meaning of what a "private
server" is and so has Valve in the quickplay menu with "community
servers". I see no need for further debate here. You can use whatever
term you want, but it's ridiculous to say others official terminology is
the wrong one to use
Firstly, perhaps the term I meant was actually private server operator. And
yes, whilst it can be interpreted to refer to a “passworded” server, It can
also be used to refer to the nature of its management - Ergo: Operated by a
private entity other than Valve Valve. The term “community server” is
s
wat, he died too?
Too many spoilers for me...
On 18.12.2015 18:55, N-Gon wrote:
Hey so Chewbacca died in this new movie.
Let us have a moment of silence to mourn our old friend instead of
arguing over Quickplay
8)
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek
mailto:prop
Hey so Chewbacca died in this new movie.
Let us have a moment of silence to mourn our old friend instead of arguing
over Quickplay
8)
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <
proph...@sticed.org> wrote:
> There is no community outcry, because this is the outcry. You're
There is no community outcry, because this is the outcry. You're
expecting an outcry from people who are barely able to adjust their
game's settings, let alone disable the motd in their configs to get rid
of annoying ads.
I also don't know why you're bringing up Slag's servers. I've heard a
few
The term "community servers" is accurate as a) this is the term Valve
uses and b) "private servers" means "password-protected".
And no, servers with custom gamemodes aren't necessarily doing well
apart from quickplay. Those servers took a big hit if you happen to have
crawled stats of various se
For 1, Valve could make make Game Server Login Tokens (GSLTs) mandatory
like they did in CSGO.
GSLTs are the new name for the server tokens used by sv_setsteamaccount.
Valve set up a new page to register these a few months ago and the
requirements are a bit stricter than they used to be.
Specific
OK, I'll bite:
*1. How do you propose that Valve deal with operators who split their
servers into different Steam IDs and regularly replace the Steam ID of
their widely blacklisted server with a new one? Given that Valve
can’t/won’t stop 10 year olds creating hundreds of Steam Accounts from the
sa
It works wonderful, so I don’t see why this should be a problem in srcds based
games.
Sure, there are a few things you need to tackle, but nothing you can’t work out.
Saint K.
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cats From Above
Actually! My mistake, found the page in question.
Interesting, though again, I imagine it's a bit of an issue when it comes
to the two previous examples. In any case, I doubt Valve want to run a
preregistration program for the tens of thousands of servers across thier
various games.
On Sat, Dec 1
Oh and also, according to the information I found, TWI does not ask for
server IP Addresses; They ask for a contact email, something that would be
easy to bypass.
http://www.twiladder.com/page/twilpcwmut#Registration
On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 12:56 AM, Saint K. wrote:
> With TWI you pre-register
Perfect solution except:
1. What about game server hosts that host multiple customers on the same IP
Address? This is becoming increasingly common due to the exhaustion of IPv4
addresses. Do you suggest whole IP Addresses of shared hosts start getting
banned?
2. What about cloud-based instances t
I'm sorry but where did I say it entitled anyone to do anything to someone
else? I know I have glasses, but I think I'm missing it.
> On 18 Dec 2015, at 13:24, Bartek S wrote:
>
> It still doesn't excuse Valve from fucking over community servers.
>
>> On 18 Dec 2015 14:15, wrote:
>> There is
With TWI you pre-register your IP’s to be “ranked”. This, imo, would make the
best system for banning unwanted servers from VALVe’s side.
Seems like a perfect solution to me.
Saint K.
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cats Fr
E. Olsen’s suggestions are all fine and dandy, except for the following
remaining questions:
1. How do you propose that Valve deal with operators who split their
servers into different Steam IDs and regularly replace the Steam ID of
their widely blacklisted server with a new one? Given that Valve
Just FYI, the whole "if players found community servers valuable, they
would be playing on them", isn't even remotely valid. If you owned a
popular restaurant, and the government came in and built an expressway that
bypassed that restaurant completely (and only your existing customers even
knew the
Firstly, Robert, you seem to be confusing the application of zero sum game
and the way it was intended. I refer to it in the context of, “Someone who
prefers and frequents Valve servers, probably won’t play on privately run
servers that often.” And the opposite is also true, “Someone who prefers
an
You run ff? Well that is not surprising, you are probably the only group
who can claim things have gotten better. Your 20 servers are not all doing
that well. I think only 3 or 4 of them are. And they are not really doing
that well compared to what was the norm before quickplay. I would suspect
tha
I have never ran a stop that tank server that was the official server hosters
that had it on it.
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It still doesn't excuse Valve from fucking over community servers.
On 18 Dec 2015 14:15, wrote:
> There is a difference between official servers and officially HOSTED
> servers. Minecraft Realms is still community run and operated. Realms is to
> Minecraft what Multiplay is to TF2 - A hosting pro
There is a difference between official servers and officially HOSTED
servers. Minecraft Realms is still community run and operated. Realms is
to Minecraft what Multiplay is to TF2 - A hosting provider. It's not
correct to mix the two.
On 2015-12-18 12:45, Robert Paulson wrote:
Your understand
I don't know who you are talking to in regards to private custom game mode
servers being 10x less popular. I run a small community with 20 servers in
TF2 and a couple in CS:GO. I don't know if the two are related, however
since the quick play changes my servers have only increased in popularity.
Mo
Your understanding is flawed then. Everything you've been saying is
logically flawed and it just seems like you are just trying to be as troll
as possible.
If hosting servers was a zero sum game, then why would the would Valve let
people do it? Use your brain and think. They do it because it is NO
Stop That Tank was the newest thing released but most of us server ops havent
showed much interest in it. I honestly hate quickplay and disable it on all my
servers whether they do well or not. Multiply a Weapon Stats by 10 was released
also and has tons more servers now.
My understanding is that Slag servers are dying due to issues at an
administrative level, chiefly I suspect, that the key people behind that
community have other things in their agenda (A hat in time anyone?).
Quickplay has little to do with it I suspect, especially as nearly all of
Slag’s servers
If private server operators are a dying breed due to Quickplay etc. and
they are still needed and valued by the broader Team Fortress 2 community,
then where’s the community outcry? I think most people realise that the
average Team Fortress 2 player doesn’t care about the plight of privately
run se
Custom game-mode servers are all suffering. They do well compared to every
other community server but they used to be 10x more populated. Since
official server quickplay happened, a lot of players don't even know that
community servers exist. All you have to do is look at how dead Slag
servers are.
The community was the worst thing to happen to the community of TF2.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Rowedahelicon <
theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote:
> "Community servers are not "relics of the past". It is simply a business
> decision and Valve has decided to choose the path of greed, l
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