Re: Dissertations / Denis MacEoin.

2004-03-17 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 3/17/2004 7:52:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, for a short period recently, he had a highly critical website which I happened to come across while looking for Douglas Martin's thesis. I believe that in scanning Juan's material I saw that exact

Re: Holy Quran 52:4

2004-03-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 3/21/2004 8:44:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As to the Bab's use of the term - I understand this to be word play, not interpretation. Dear Don, And what do you do about Ali's use of the term? warmest, Susan

Re: Letters of the Living

2004-04-04 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 4/4/2004 2:43:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am under the impression that Nabil is to be given special consideration as a source Dear Dean, Not so much as a 'source' but as a sacred narrative. At least that is the way I look at it. warmest,

Re: Letters of the Living

2004-04-05 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 4/5/2004 8:03:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If there were some theological reasons, then that needs to be demonstrated. So far, I don't know of any such reason. What aspect of the Dawn-breakers is theological to you? It simply portrays the Babi Faith as

Re: Letters of the Living

2004-04-05 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 4/5/2004 9:16:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What were the Guardian's exact words regarding his infallibility? I thought he claimed to be infallible only in matters related to the Faith. To me, this would include the Faith's history. He claimed to be

Re: Letters of the Living

2004-04-05 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 4/5/2004 11:32:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From reading this quote my understanding is that Shoghi Effendi can be infallible in regards to history providing he's basing what he says on the revealed word. Dear Dean, Perhaps, but I'm not sure how

Re: Martyrdom of the Bab

2004-05-11 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 5/11/2004 8:52:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I never have considered teleportation to be an issue. The simple shock of facing death, hearing the crash of the muskets and suddenly dropping to the ground as the rope was cut would have been incapacitating

Re: what was on the Bab's mind

2004-05-12 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 5/12/2004 3:58:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: actually i think we understnad pretty well what was on the Bab's mind, and it is found in the Molsem denial. He told some people who wanted to execute Him that He had a conversation to finish, they said, no.

Re: Martyrdom of the Bab

2004-05-12 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 5/12/2004 7:41:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another question springs to mind on this topic: why did the miracle have to happen in the first place? If miracles are no proof of Prophethood, what was the point of it all? Dear David, We don't even

Re: KJV quotes

2004-05-10 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 5/10/2004 8:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I remember some time ago saying something about 'Abdu'l-Baha using the KJV, and then being corrected by someone. But now that I think about that, this leads me to ask: why is the KJV quoted extensively

Re: Afterlife

2004-05-23 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 5/23/2004 11:13:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do any of the Baha'i Writings suggest that the afterlife might be limited to believers? Dear Dean, There are passages which could conceivably be interpreted that way, but I don't. Check out what

Re: Afterlife

2004-05-23 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 5/23/2004 11:25:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are passages which could conceivably be interpreted that way, but I don't. Check out what Gleanings has to say. Do you mean you don't interpret them that way? No, I don't interpret those passages

Re: Tutor Pole

2004-05-24 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 5/24/2004 10:45:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Clarification, please, from some of you knowledgeable historians.I read Tutor Pole's story. I have also seen several letter from the Guardian to, I think, "W. T. Pole". Are these the same people. If I

Re: People of capacity

2004-06-01 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 6/1/2004 11:12:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed. I should have written "a" reason; tho' when I first heard this story, it was given as "the" reason. Dear Don, I think that is the way Taherzadeh depicts it as he wants to focus on Sohrab Ahmad

Re: Rev. 11:3

2004-06-11 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 6/11/2004 6:00:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it escapes this mind how one whose station is as great as that of Quddus could think of himself as a Manifestation. 'Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian, for example, were quick to discount being thought of as a

Re: Freedom of religion

2004-06-15 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 6/15/2004 3:31:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 'If thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people until they are believers?' (Sura 10:99) I am wondering what the

Re: Scholarship and Learning in a Far-from-Equilibrium State

2004-07-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 7/20/2004 7:27:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: can't find Steven's version of "Abdu'l-Baha's reasons anywhere. Of course they may be his understanding of 'Abdu'l-Baha's comments, but he actually attributed them to the Master. Dear David, The nice

Re: Reflection

2004-08-17 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 8/17/2004 5:42:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the contrary, they have always excelled all other peoples in endowments conferred by birth. Dear Hasan, I'd call it hyperbole. warmest, Susan __ You

Re: Reflections re:hyperbole

2004-08-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 8/20/2004 9:00:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can you give me a source for the Universal House of Justice comment on "hyperbole" ? "we must accept that they are realities that cannot be defined in a rigourous manner, as one would attempt to define the

Peace breaks out

2004-08-29 Thread Smaneck
Dear friends, You might find this URL interesting: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=515u=/ap/20040829/ap_on_re_af/war_and_peace_1printer=1 warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To

Re: I'm Back!

2004-09-19 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:41:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So I just wanted to try and see if my email gets posted and also say hello again. Welcome back, Jilla! __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:

Re: Grounds for divorce

2004-09-22 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 9/22/04 4:18:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If one should not feel antipathy towards another, however, why should antipathy be valid grounds for divorce? Dear David, Clearly, you have never been married. ;-} But the word here is 'aversion' as I

Re: Cohabitation question

2004-10-30 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 10/30/2004 10:54:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a cousin who is at a university, in a co-ed dorm situation (men and women on the same floor); she and her current roommate would like to move out of their dorm and into an apartment with a male

Re: The Hereafter Business : Modern Day Witchcraft or Everlasting Life?

2004-11-20 Thread Smaneck
Each claim that there is a personal God, who created the universe and man, and if man participates in the sacraments of their religion, he will achieve everlasting life. Dear Steve, I'm afraid this person is poorly informed as to the tenets of these religions. Only Christianity has sacraments.

Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation

2004-11-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 11/21/2004 2:26:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a line somewhere in Aqdas or elsewhere that says after the Recognition one should serve those that believe? Not to my knowledge. Obedience to the Laws comes after recognition, not obedience to

Re: Reading Paul through the eyes of Augustine and Luther

2004-11-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 11/20/2004 3:54:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Could you please explain, in layman's terms, what it means to read Paul through the eyes of Augustine and Luther? Augustine and Luther were very fixated with the issue of their personal sinfullness. This

Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation

2004-11-24 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 11/24/2004 2:58:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Explain to me the nuances of "serve" as compared to "encourage, support". I always understood service as a baha'i as to help/assist an endeavor. This ,of course, IMO, can take a lot of different forms

Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation

2004-11-24 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 11/24/2004 6:44:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was something to the effect that if someone (i.e.another believer) asked a Baha'i to do a service for the cause if is as ifBaha'u'llah (or maybe it was 'Abdul-Baha) Himself asked them to do it.

Re: Edict of toleration

2004-11-28 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 11/28/2004 10:17:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The significance of WS's edict was that it allowed Jews to return to the Holy Land, rather than just practise their faith. Are you saying that the reply from the public record office to the "researcher"

Re: Edict of toleration

2004-11-28 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 11/28/2004 10:45:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He states in TITN that he secured and studied copies of original documents and letters. Did he actually say he made *this* bit up? Dear Sam, He doesn't say he read the original edict itself, though I

Re: To Brent: one point

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:19:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As a Canadian, I cannot say that I have ever experienced the situationdepicted in the cartoon. The ABM's that I have met have been quite vocal intheir encouragement to study other materials,

Re: To Brent: one point

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:31:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think tutor is "true believer" just because is a "tutor", I think we can't or "must" say when one baha'i is *true* or *not true* believer. Hasan Dear Hasan, We've got a

Re: No Personal Opinions in Ruhi

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:35:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thus, for example, after reading thequotation, The betterment of the world can be accomplished through pureand goodly deeds, through commendable and seemly conduct, the student isasked, "How

Re: Ruhi, Prolonged Discussions

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:40:21 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The experience of the Ruhi Institute has shown that we do not suppress the imagination or the personality of the participants How have they determined they aren't doing this?

Re: Ruhi, Participation, Political Manipulation

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:45:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Ruhi Institute, following the ideas presented in the previousparagraphs, asserts that effective participation which will not easilydegenerate into political manipulation requires a

Re: Ruhi, Transitory Motivation, An Example

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:48:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would like to invite you to join a study circle we have recentlyestablished in our community. There are already twelve people in our group,and I am sure you will like every one of them. We

Re: Ruhi, Not Possible when Tutor is Arrogant

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 11:08:14 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why you put too messages against Ruhi program? Huh? Other than that cartoon, Max has been posting nothing but quotations from Ruhi materials. The functions of the tutor are clearand

Re: Ruhi, Not Possible when Tutor is Arrogant

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 11:22:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has itbeen effective among older, educated believers in urban areas in Peru, Hasan? Or does it work better among the young and the semi-literate as I have suggested? Yes,

Re: To Brent: one point

2004-12-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:52:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Too much discussions about the Ruhi Program in this forum, now the Ruhi Program is a real and efficient way to grow, it is not perfect (nothing is) but it help the Faith to grow better than

Re: No Personal Opinions in Ruhi

2004-12-10 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/10/2004 7:04:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: unity of thought refers to keeping one's mind and heart centered on Baha'u'llah and `Abdu'l-Baha, i.e., the Covenant. It has nothing directly to do with the fundamentalist indoctrination

Re: Not Exhausted

2004-12-10 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/10/04 8:31:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be

Re: Ruhi, Prolonged Discussions

2004-12-10 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:45:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that many are willing to take what the editors say at face value. Well, that certainly happens, and at times tutors encourage it. When one participant noted that no source was given to

Re: Can the Baha'i Faith be a Big Tent or not?

2004-12-10 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/11/2004 12:30:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I am honst, I have this same issue. The sufferigof Jesus on the cross is a powerful story. Try as I might, I can not see Baha'u'llah's imprisonment for decades as equivalent. It just isnt'

Re: Not Exhausted

2004-12-11 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/11/2004 10:45:16 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where are you getting that from? For gosh sakes, Gilberto. Have you never seen the fatwas to the effect that women should not be in positions of political authority because political leaders

Re: Ether and Evolution and Infallibility

2004-12-11 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/11/2004 12:04:20 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Second, there is a discussion about radiocarbon dating, which is our best method for dating fossils less than 30,000 years old. Let's go back in time to 1912. At Piltdown near Sussex a skull

Re: Crowley?!? Really?!? was Re: Book of Daniel fulfilled

2004-12-11 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/11/2004 3:55:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Really!?!? I don't understand? What is the appeal? Besides, I've evenheard from some followers of Thelema that in some ways the movementhas already been "corrupted" to Crowleanity. Mark was into

Unity of Thought

2004-12-10 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/10/04 6:14:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is now that unity of thought and action is most needed. It is now, when the Cause is entering a new phase of development, when its Administration is being gradually consolidated amid the welter and chaos

Re: Book of Daniel fulfilled

2004-12-10 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/10/04 9:27:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is but one power which heals -- that is God. The state or condition through which the healing takes place is the confidence of the heart. By some this state is reached through pills, powders, and

Re: Progressive Revelation

2004-12-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/20/2004 7:33:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is a Christian doctrine known as dispensationalism which breakshuman history into different periods (dispensations) where God dealswith human beings in a particular way Dear Gilberto,

Re: Progressive Revelation

2004-12-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/20/2004 5:06:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While I'm open to a "broader" understanding of the term, I feel that because the passage from Baha'u'llah opens with : "Contemplate with thine inward eye the chain ofsuccessive Revelations that

Re: Progressive Revelation

2004-12-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/20/2004 10:55:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you didn't have Dispensationalism in mind, which was the Christianconcept you were thinking of which was similar to progressiverevelation? Dear Gilberto, I think progressive revelation

Re: Progressive Revelation

2004-12-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:30:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But the Bahai faith isn't completely dissimilar to those groups. Ithink about "A thief in the night" and the related interpretations ofthe Millerite groups who as fundamentalists literally

Re: Progressive Revelation

2004-12-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/21/2004 12:44:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hadnt run across this most interesting bit of information before. Could you give a little more of this history, or perhaps point me towards some further reading? Here's some websites

Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters

2004-12-28 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/28/2004 1:03:04 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dr. Maneck, I understand that you and many others on this List, and many Bahai scholars and Administrators believe in Omniscience at Will, Omnipotence at Will, and other similar concepts that I

Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters

2004-12-28 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/28/2004 1:59:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was the official language of the Ottoman occupiers of the Holy Land, and the "jailers" of Abdu'l Baha.I assume he had some fluency as did his parents and grandparents. Dear Scott,

Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters

2004-12-29 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/29/2004 10:43:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: why did Baha'u'llah not speakwith Browne in English, it is because he didn't know English. Does this make senseif He is omniscient at will? I think it does because I can argue that he did not

Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters

2004-12-29 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/29/2004 11:03:09 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I take Their statements literally unless thye violate natural law. The existence of a human who inspired the stories about Abraham does not require violation of physical laws of the universe,

Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters

2004-12-29 Thread Smaneck
Could anyone else tell me, what stands out in your mind about why you converted. What was the thing that grabbed you adn convinced you. Dear Ron, I was very young when I became a Baha'i. When I read Release the Sun and compared it with the Gospels it seemed to me that it was the same

Reflections on Growth

2004-12-29 Thread Smaneck
Here is the newsletter I promised you. Reflections on GrowthNumber 1 March 2004Intensive Growth in Advanced ClustersDuring the past year in a number of countries, greater attention was given to expansionin advanced clusters. The most systematic approach to date is emerging in Asia, where

Re: Reflections on Growth

2004-12-29 Thread Smaneck
Whoops, I see that didn't work! Let me try something else. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the

Re: What Convinced Me (was: Questions about Omniscience and related matters)

2004-12-30 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/30/2004 1:46:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "There is one other condition which should be mentioned. There arecertain former Bah whose actions do not necessarily constituteCovenant-breaking, but are seriously destructive. Where such

Re: Stanwood Cobb's books on line

2004-12-30 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/30/2004 3:24:48 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brentcito 'Little' Brent? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to

Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters

2004-12-30 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/30/2004 5:49:34 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: RS: Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to assume that Abdul Baha used an interpreter becuase he could't understand English well without one? Why else would Abdu'l-Baha use an interpreter ? Dear

Re: What Convinced Me (was: Questions about Omniscience and related matters)

2004-12-31 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/31/2004 2:12:25 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wonder why no one has mentioned this tragedy on this list and if there are Baha'i Communities there? I'm sure there are. What I'm wondering is if there are any SEDs in those areas which

Re: COVENANT of the Prophets [Sura 3 verse 81] was [RE: Perennialism]

2005-01-01 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/1/2005 10:23:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: this was right after Muhammed had developed a signet ring (Seal) for doing business with Byzantium. Huh? I think Muslims put as much stake in what Muhammad supposedly said at His last sermon

Re: COVENANT of the Prophets [Sura 3 verse 81] was [RE: Perennialism]

2005-01-01 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:57:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Qur'an warns against hadith. Where does it do that? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To

Re: COVENANT of the Prophets [Sura 3 verse 81] was [RE: Perennialism]

2005-01-02 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:59:59 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Prophet married her (by traditional accounts) when she was seven, but did not consumate the marriage until she was eleven. That seems reasonable to me by the standards of the time. Dear

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-04 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/4/2005 5:35:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But in general, that books which I've read which come out of the"Deobandi" circles are actually pretty explicitly and uniformlysupportive of Sufism. Tablighi Jamaat which is probably the

Re: The Perfect Man

2005-01-04 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/4/2005 5:57:59 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don'tthink that that kind of success is much of an indication of truth. Infact, I think in general the liberation theology perspective (whereGod is on the side of the poor and the oppressed) is

Re: Authority and translation differences

2005-01-08 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/8/2005 4:26:25 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sale's translation is the most scholarly we have, but Rodwell's version is more literary, and hence easier for reading. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi (23 November 1934).

Re: ignorance or forgetfulness

2005-01-09 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/9/2005 3:58:23 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe it's just me, but from my perspective, humanity's biggest problem isn't ignorance as much as forgetfulness. No offense, Gilberto, but is that your *personal* perspective. It looks likethe

Religion and State

2005-01-14 Thread Smaneck
My understanding is that the word siyasat in 19th century (and early 20th century) Persian and Arabic means leadership and not politics as it is commonly used. The 1943 translation of the eighth Ishraq in the Baha'i World Faith reads: "Administrative affair are all in charge of the House of

Re: Religion and State

2005-01-14 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/14/2005 3:47:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At the top of the document Jonah states "Note: the article "Church and State in the World Order of Baha'u'llah," by Sen McGlinn, also addresses these issues." Is this the document that the

Re: Finality of the Bible

2005-01-14 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/15/2005 1:15:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What exactly did he say about them? And how do you know they are the same? I don't have the book with me right now. Have you never read "That which Delivers from Error"? It is a classic. "And

Re: Religion and State

2005-01-17 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/17/2005 2:51:43 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do not think that "the wisdom of referring the laws of society to the House of Justice" the laws of society means civil laws, Dear Firouz, My translation of akham-i madaniyyih here isthe

Re: ruhi in ireland

2005-01-17 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/17/2005 10:37:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The same when I hear glorification of things. how many people OUTSIDE the USA do you know who have gone through the ruhi books, who have done more than one? Dear Janine, If most people are

Re: Not Exhausted

2005-01-17 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/23/2004 8:11:04 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Don't Bahais say that the world will continue to exist indefinitely?) Dear Gilbert, I'm going through some old posts that I missed during my vacation and noted the above remark. Baha'is

Re: Religion and State

2005-01-17 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/18/2005 12:36:22 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, in context, `Abdu'l-Baha is referring to legislative deductions. Correct. But the issue of the proper relationship between religion and state is a matter of law. warmest, Susan

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/25/2004 1:20:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think I would define "H.ikmat" a trifle differently in a Bahá'í reference.Perhaps Susan or Khazeh could offer a better definition? Not promote or defend but sometimes to protect. For

Re: Bahai jihad?

2005-01-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/25/2004 9:40:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Butthey see the Bahai faith as a threat to their worldview, theirculture, their religion. And as a response, several countries led byreligious militant fundamentalists join together an attack

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:13:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But when Bahais make a big deal out say that "holy war" has beenabrogated it gives the impression that somehow they are more peaceful,or closer to pacifism, etc. than other religions in

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:46:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it's true that the early, formative years of the Babí andBahá'í Faith were characterized by a good deal of violence and bloodshed Babi, not Baha'i.

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-20 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:02:53 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Although Shoghi Effendi said that abortions should not be permitted unless authorized by the woman's physician Dear Mark, I don't recall the Guardian referring to a woman's physician

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:40:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is the distinction you are making between "protecting" and "defending"? Dear Gilberto, "Defending" could be nothing more than apologetics. I'm talking about what could be life and

Re: Bahai jihad?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:44:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "So whatever it means to "blot out holy war" it doesn't absolutelyexclude the possibility that Bahais would take up arms to defendthemselves and fight non-Bahais." Dear Gilberto, They

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:29:15 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Defending" could be nothing more than apologetics. I could actually say the same about jihad then. There is a hadithwhich states: ""The best jihad is speaking the truth to an unjustruler."

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:40:20 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where did the word 'righteous' come from? In "Bahaullah and the New Era" there is an entire chapter called"Righteous Warfare" Okay. The term 'righteous warfare' occurs nowhere in the

Re: Bahai jihad?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 11:58:08 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pretty much every discussion of physical jihad I've seen from atraditional/orthodox persepctive talks about it in the context ofdefending Muslim lands and lives Dear Gilberto, When

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 12:00:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "You are allowed to apply capital punishment according to yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "collective security" in yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "righteous warfare" in

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 12:15:27 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1903, not 1906. Oops, sorry. I always associate with the Constitutional Revolution. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:

Re: Ruhi - a data point from Houston

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:04:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for me, I sat and suffered through one session of Ruhi and was ready to putgun to my head after that. So it may not be for an old dog like me, but as Isaid it was God-sent for my son. Dear

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:17:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why isn't "Bahaullah and the New Era" "the writings"? Dear Gilberto, By "Writings" I mean our scriptures; what we consider the Word of God. Baha'u'llah and the New Era is just a piece

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:20:48 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you are just arguing about the "names" that seems an odddistinction to make. I am not at all arguing about names and I have a difficult time figuring out why you find this so hard to grasp.

Re: Bahai jihad?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:55:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: would certainlyadmit that it has the potential to be abused (virtually all rules do)but jizya actually is ordained in the Quran, so if you really think itis necessarily a form of harrassment

Re: Kitab-i-Iqan pp 4-5 Qur'an 3:85

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:48:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I once knew someone who told me he only accepted Muhammad on the authority of Baha'u'llah. Dear Mark, I think most of us did at first. warmest, Susan

Re: Bahai jihad?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 6:46:21 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So does the UHJ believe the first Gulf War was justified? Are thereother official Bahai statements related to Gulf War I, and Gulf WarII? Dear Gilberto, That's the only one and it wasn't the

Re: Bahai jihad?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
Dear James, A number of your quotations are taken from Divine Philosophy which more or less falls into the category of pilgrim's notes. But I think your understanding is both right and wrong. The very purpose of the Baha'i Faith is to bring about the unity of humanity and by it, an end to

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:18:35 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By the religion which immediately preceded the Baha'i Faith, I think that Susan had in mind the Babi Faith, not Islam.My mistake. Actually, I was thinking of both.

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 5:09:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, for clarification, can you tell us, if the Baha'is were trapped at Shaykh Tabarsi today, and Muslims attacked them, would the Baha'is be allowed to fight back, according to the Law of

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Smaneck
In a message dated 1/21/2005 4:26:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Did the Bab wage Jihad against all the non-believers or just against Muslims? The Bab never waged jihad. His followers fought in His absence when He was imprisoned. warmest, Susan

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