Re: CF Editor
People like me that wear a cfeclipse t-shirt to weddings? MD On 26 Jun 2007, at 18:14, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: Define Fanboy? ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283233 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Because no one is going to update or add new features to Homesite. ColdFusion as a language is improving and adding new features with each version, so far they have been changes in the grammar for example in CFSCRIPT. Now, if you manage to find a bug in Homesite (God forbid! Its perfect software apparently, from some of the comments on here) who is going to fix it? Oh well doesn't matter is better the devil you know right? I for one have moved over to using macs 100% a while back for reasons of my own, I couldn't use CF Studio anymore and I couldn't buy it (the closest I could get was some crappy cut down version of CFStudio called Homesite) so it was either buying a PC, or using Dreamweaver, which was kinda bloated (i.e. it had lots of features that I didn't need) or find something else. I moved to CFEclipse, and did as you did, complain. I want this, I want that, then I decided to add those features myself, and this is what I have been doing. I am also able to do add new features that HomeSite will never have (CFUnite integration, Frameworks support, multiple versions of CFML anyone?) If you develop in one way forever, then, as I have said before and very publicly , I wont hire you. Learn, advance, evolve. MD On 27 Jun 2007, at 02:54, Claude Schneegans wrote: This is quite amusing because what you describe is EXACTLY what the CFEclipse scribble pad is. Then why would I need CF Eclipse if it does exactly what I've been doing with CF Studio for years? This is exactly my point. -- ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283234 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
With matching Thong? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Mark Drew To: CF-Talk Sent: Mon Jul 09 11:58:49 2007 Subject: Re: CF Editor People like me that wear a cfeclipse t-shirt to weddings? MD On 26 Jun 2007, at 18:14, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: Define Fanboy? ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283238 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Now *THAT* is an idea. MD On 9 Jul 2007, at 12:33, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: With matching Thong? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Mark Drew To: CF-Talk Sent: Mon Jul 09 11:58:49 2007 Subject: Re: CF Editor People like me that wear a cfeclipse t-shirt to weddings? MD On 26 Jun 2007, at 18:14, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: Define Fanboy? ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283239 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
The only language that EditPlus has any built-in awareness of is HTML, but even that is minimal. Instead, it uses syntax, auto-complete, and cliptext files, which can be mapped to file types. On the EditPlus site, if you go to User Files Other Files, there is a ColdfusionMX.zip file about a third of the way down the page, uploaded on 2003-04-06, that has a syntax file for MX. Like I said earlier, I'd be happy to share my CF files, but they do have stuff in them that you might not want. It might be easier though to pare mine down than to build your own. I should also mention that the syntax for the customization files themselves is very simple and straightforward and is explained in the app help. One of my few beefs with EditPlus is that you can't apply multiple syntax files to a file type, e.g., CF and HTML for CF files; instead, you have to duplicate the syntax for HTML inside the CF syntax file. Not a biggie, but it is one feature that IDE's have over EditPlus. If anyone is _really_ interested, I could post a list of pros and cons. Joe -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor After browsing through the website, I didn't see any mention of CFML support. The only mention I saw was for CF 4.5.1 in the other files... Is there language support in EditPlus for CFML? Rick -Original Message- From: Joe Lakey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Andy, Can you explain where to get the Coldfusion syntax and Autocomplete files for Editplus? Chris I've been using EditPlus for 5 or 6 years now and love it. I've made a few forays into DW and CFE, but keep going back to EditPlus. As was mentioned before, it's a text editor, not an IDE, but I've yet to see anything with its simplicity and flexibility for US$30 ($20 when I bought it). It comes with some common autocomplete and syntax files (html, C++, PHP...), which can be modified, but there is a large library of customization files at http://www.editplus.com/files.html. I have my own that I've tweaked over the years and would be happy to share, but they've got a lot of stuff you probably wouldn't need (or want). Joe ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282721 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Thanks, Joe... I'll keep the info handy as I move forward considering IDE's and editors. For now I think I'll stick with Homesite 5.5. I'm spending most of my time learning to develop sites in pure CSS, hand-coding everything anyway. Rick -Original Message- From: Joe Lakey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 12:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor The only language that EditPlus has any built-in awareness of is HTML, but even that is minimal. Instead, it uses syntax, auto-complete, and cliptext files, which can be mapped to file types. On the EditPlus site, if you go to User Files Other Files, there is a ColdfusionMX.zip file about a third of the way down the page, uploaded on 2003-04-06, that has a syntax file for MX. Like I said earlier, I'd be happy to share my CF files, but they do have stuff in them that you might not want. It might be easier though to pare mine down than to build your own. I should also mention that the syntax for the customization files themselves is very simple and straightforward and is explained in the app help. One of my few beefs with EditPlus is that you can't apply multiple syntax files to a file type, e.g., CF and HTML for CF files; instead, you have to duplicate the syntax for HTML inside the CF syntax file. Not a biggie, but it is one feature that IDE's have over EditPlus. If anyone is _really_ interested, I could post a list of pros and cons. Joe -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor After browsing through the website, I didn't see any mention of CFML support. The only mention I saw was for CF 4.5.1 in the other files... Is there language support in EditPlus for CFML? Rick -Original Message- From: Joe Lakey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Andy, Can you explain where to get the Coldfusion syntax and Autocomplete files for Editplus? Chris I've been using EditPlus for 5 or 6 years now and love it. I've made a few forays into DW and CFE, but keep going back to EditPlus. As was mentioned before, it's a text editor, not an IDE, but I've yet to see anything with its simplicity and flexibility for US$30 ($20 when I bought it). It comes with some common autocomplete and syntax files (html, C++, PHP...), which can be modified, but there is a large library of customization files at http://www.editplus.com/files.html. I have my own that I've tweaked over the years and would be happy to share, but they've got a lot of stuff you probably wouldn't need (or want). Joe ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282723 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Andy, Can you explain where to get the Coldfusion syntax and Autocomplete files for Editplus? Chris Andy Matthews wrote: ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282567 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Andy, Can you explain where to get the Coldfusion syntax and Autocomplete files for Editplus? Chris I've been using EditPlus for 5 or 6 years now and love it. I've made a few forays into DW and CFE, but keep going back to EditPlus. As was mentioned before, it's a text editor, not an IDE, but I've yet to see anything with its simplicity and flexibility for US$30 ($20 when I bought it). It comes with some common autocomplete and syntax files (html, C++, PHP...), which can be modified, but there is a large library of customization files at http://www.editplus.com/files.html. I have my own that I've tweaked over the years and would be happy to share, but they've got a lot of stuff you probably wouldn't need (or want). Joe ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282569 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
Thanks for the perspective, Cutter... Rick -Original Message- From: Cutter (CFRelated) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor I guess that depends on your development style. I use CFE at work and at home. Work is a team environment, while home is solo. I use almost all of the features at home just as I do at work, and find that I am far more productive for it. Yes, it took some trial and error for me to figure out MY optimal configuration of Eclipse, but it's plugin architecture and configurability has been invaluable. I use: The Web Tools Platform build of Eclipse Flex Builder plugin CFEclipse plugin Aptana plugin CF8 plugins Subclipse plugin (w/SvnAnt in the Ant dirs for running Subversion tasks through Ant) Mylyn looks good, so I'll probably see how that will affect workflow. I'm also considering the Green Project plugin for UML modeling direct within Eclipse. As an aside, you can download an all-in-one Eclipse+CFEclipse install from the CFE site for vanilla editing (doesn't take additional plugins well, so I went custom). I downloaded, installed, opened to the default workspace (without creating one specifically), went to the 'File Explorer' Tab (next to Navigation and Snippets), opened a file on my system, that wasn't in a pre-defined project, and edited away with no issues. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com 'One must move forward, for the Earth continues to move. There is no standing still, for the Earth will go by without you.' Rick Faircloth wrote: Would it be an appropriate perspective to say that Eclipse and CFEclipse would be more for companies with Multiple developers working together? I'm currently just coding everything in Homesite 5.5 and It works fine for me. I'm an independent developer, so I don't Have to worry about someone changing anything...checking out Pages, etc. I don't have a running history of changes, but for versioning, I just copy and paste the site folder and append a date and time on It in case I want to go back to that version. I have considered Eclipse and CFEclipse, but it seems overkill based On the conversation here... Thoughts on appropriateness for a sole developer? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 14:42:56 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd
RE: CF Editor
After browsing through the website, I didn't see any mention of CFML support. The only mention I saw was for CF 4.5.1 in the other files... Is there language support in EditPlus for CFML? Rick -Original Message- From: Joe Lakey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Andy, Can you explain where to get the Coldfusion syntax and Autocomplete files for Editplus? Chris I've been using EditPlus for 5 or 6 years now and love it. I've made a few forays into DW and CFE, but keep going back to EditPlus. As was mentioned before, it's a text editor, not an IDE, but I've yet to see anything with its simplicity and flexibility for US$30 ($20 when I bought it). It comes with some common autocomplete and syntax files (html, C++, PHP...), which can be modified, but there is a large library of customization files at http://www.editplus.com/files.html. I have my own that I've tweaked over the years and would be happy to share, but they've got a lot of stuff you probably wouldn't need (or want). Joe ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282598 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Tell me about it, we shell out something like £800 a month for legacy support to Microsoft. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Thu Jun 28 01:11:11 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? I'm sure it has, but the fact is, they have the patch. It's a very simple patch apparently. They just want you to pay - a lot - for it. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282440 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Greg Luce wrote: Not sure what you're saying here. What is a product? And the rest of the paragraph just doesn't make sense. The product is an Eclipse distribution customized for CF development, together with a configuration customized for you and training on the proper use of it. Which you can buy from us, but only if you are located near us (because of all the training) and buy the whole package including training and support on SVN and Ant, and optionally tools, training and support for automated testing, clustering etc. Jochem ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282441 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
What kind of system are you using? Even server type systems with ECC and FBDIMM don't cost that much, AFAIK. Here's the link to the Dell page for the 512MB memory for my system. I'd certainly love to know if there is a reasonable alternative to it, it does indeed seem ridiculously high-priced compared to most memory chips these days. http://tinyurl.com/39zp4f For that price, you could buy a new motherboard, a faster CPU and 2GB+ of RAM from NewEgg. The problem is the older the memory type, the less demand, so the higher the price to manufacture. Prices on DDR2 memory is really cheap right now. -Dan ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282453 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
I don't understand the complaints about configuration. You either point to a url or a zip file when you want to add a new plug-in. Seems easy enough to me, hell, how would you prefer to see it done? -- Timothy J. Heald | NIH-Contractor | iGate Enterprise Business Intelligence Branch (EBIB) Division of Enterprise and Custom Applications, CIT/NIH/DHHS Office: 301.594.5611 | Fax: 301.443.7010 | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Luce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yeah, I guess that's a start. But even I figured out how to install one plugin - CFEclipse. I'm more interested in the uber-geek dozens of plugins and configurations/strategies I've heard in this thread. Makes me think I'm behind the curve using Homesite. Greg On 6/27/07, Charlie Griefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is pretty close... http://www.cfeclipse.org/download/ it's Eclipse with CFE already bundled in. Certainly enough to get one started, no? On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So aside from commercial plugins, if they are all covered by gnu license could you package up a Signature Build and distribute it or even sell it? Greg On 6/27/07, Charlie Griefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as he said... he's using a specific plugin that's commercial. so, yeah :) On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, this thread got me to open CFE back up after more than a week. Like I said earlier, is there a licensing problem with Brian setting up Eclipse how he does with all his bells and whistles and releasing it as the Brian Kotek Signature Edition or something? Greg On 6/27/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282457 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
Personally the source control features are gravy. It's the features that are provided by CFEclipse, and the Adobe CF/Flex tools and Aptana (CSS/JS) all in the same ide, giving me the ability to easily change perspectives mid stream without having to open three different tools, which used to be my only option. As an aside, anyone playing with the JSEclispe plug-in on labs? -- Timothy J. Heald | NIH-Contractor | iGate Enterprise Business Intelligence Branch (EBIB) Division of Enterprise and Custom Applications, CIT/NIH/DHHS Office: 301.594.5611 | Fax: 301.443.7010 | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Would it be an appropriate perspective to say that Eclipse and CFEclipse would be more for companies with Multiple developers working together? I'm currently just coding everything in Homesite 5.5 and It works fine for me. I'm an independent developer, so I don't Have to worry about someone changing anything...checking out Pages, etc. I don't have a running history of changes, but for versioning, I just copy and paste the site folder and append a date and time on It in case I want to go back to that version. I have considered Eclipse and CFEclipse, but it seems overkill based On the conversation here... Thoughts on appropriateness for a sole developer? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 14:42:56 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion
Re: CF Editor
I guess that depends on your development style. I use CFE at work and at home. Work is a team environment, while home is solo. I use almost all of the features at home just as I do at work, and find that I am far more productive for it. Yes, it took some trial and error for me to figure out MY optimal configuration of Eclipse, but it's plugin architecture and configurability has been invaluable. I use: The Web Tools Platform build of Eclipse Flex Builder plugin CFEclipse plugin Aptana plugin CF8 plugins Subclipse plugin (w/SvnAnt in the Ant dirs for running Subversion tasks through Ant) Mylyn looks good, so I'll probably see how that will affect workflow. I'm also considering the Green Project plugin for UML modeling direct within Eclipse. As an aside, you can download an all-in-one Eclipse+CFEclipse install from the CFE site for vanilla editing (doesn't take additional plugins well, so I went custom). I downloaded, installed, opened to the default workspace (without creating one specifically), went to the 'File Explorer' Tab (next to Navigation and Snippets), opened a file on my system, that wasn't in a pre-defined project, and edited away with no issues. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com 'One must move forward, for the Earth continues to move. There is no standing still, for the Earth will go by without you.' Rick Faircloth wrote: Would it be an appropriate perspective to say that Eclipse and CFEclipse would be more for companies with Multiple developers working together? I'm currently just coding everything in Homesite 5.5 and It works fine for me. I'm an independent developer, so I don't Have to worry about someone changing anything...checking out Pages, etc. I don't have a running history of changes, but for versioning, I just copy and paste the site folder and append a date and time on It in case I want to go back to that version. I have considered Eclipse and CFEclipse, but it seems overkill based On the conversation here... Thoughts on appropriateness for a sole developer? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 14:42:56 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL
Re: CF Editor
On 6/28/07, Heald, Timothy (NIH/CIT) [C] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an aside, anyone playing with the JSEclispe plug-in on labs? I've been using it for a while now, and really enjoy it. On of the best features is that you can select a chunk of inline JS in a CFM or HTML file, right click, and open it in JSEclipse - it opens a temp file of just the JS code, with all of the JSEclipse editing features available, and when you save, it syncs it up with the original source file. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282461 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/28/07, Doug Bezona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/28/07, Heald, Timothy (NIH/CIT) [C] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an aside, anyone playing with the JSEclispe plug-in on labs? I've been using it for a while now, and really enjoy it. On of the best features is that you can select a chunk of inline JS in a CFM or HTML file, right click, and open it in JSEclipse - it opens a temp file of just the JS code, with all of the JSEclipse editing features available, and when you save, it syncs it up with the original source file. Wow! I've been using it since before Adobe bought Interakt and I had no idea you could do that. Nice! -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282464 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
I guess I'll throw some of my 2 cents in here now. I've been using CFEclipse for about 3-4 years now, and I would use nothing else at this point. Like many have said, there are many good plugins to do whatever it is your heart desires. Ok, now my tip of the day: CTRL+K - If you've done a previous search, and not in the search window any longer, CTRL+K will do the equivalent of a Find Next. Another good tip is if you highlight something, and just hit CTRL+K, it will use that as the new search and Find Next. When I typically search a document, if I can't highlight text, I'll open up CTRL+F, enter my search, hit enter, then close my search and stick with using CTRL+K. CTRL+L - Goes to line number (Probably a given?). Oh, and btw... I'd assume a lot of us, at some point in our career, have printed out a keyboard shortcut list of some sort. Well, you can get a list of keyboard shortcuts, which we all should know by know that they are customizable, and then you can export the data and print them off as reference too. Maybe we can all come up with a HUGE list of the best Keyboard Shortcut lists that is superb for CF Developers? -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor On 6/28/07, Doug Bezona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/28/07, Heald, Timothy (NIH/CIT) [C] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an aside, anyone playing with the JSEclispe plug-in on labs? I've been using it for a while now, and really enjoy it. On of the best features is that you can select a chunk of inline JS in a CFM or HTML file, right click, and open it in JSEclipse - it opens a temp file of just the JS code, with all of the JSEclipse editing features available, and when you save, it syncs it up with the original source file. Wow! I've been using it since before Adobe bought Interakt and I had no idea you could do that. Nice! -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282469 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Yeah, I guess that's a start. But even I figured out how to install one plugin - CFEclipse. I'm more interested in the uber-geek dozens of plugins and configurations/strategies I've heard in this thread. Makes me think I'm behind the curve using Homesite. In my own case, the plugins I'm using are largely dictated by the specific work I'm doing, and I didn't have to know very much to set them up. Which is good, because I really don't know all that much about the plugin architecture, etc. Everything worked pretty smoothly, actually. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282474 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Sounds to me like your system is so old that it would pay to buy a new PC with 2-4GB of ram instead of upgrading the current ram. Yup, exactly. Although my system is not *that* old, I purchased it 4 years ago, we're not talking a 486 here. But does return to my original point that telling people to upgrade their RAM if Eclipse is being a hog is not always a viable solution. I can't really afford to upgrade my entire system at the moment (not to mention the time involved in reinstalling all my software) so have to make due to 1 gig in the meantime. Actually I have a lot less issues running Eclipse than when I'm working in Photoshop! Now there's an application I really wish I had 2 gig for. Mary Jo ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282485 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
3-4 years? Has it even been out that long? CFEclipse plugin I mean, not Eclipse IDE. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Doug Arthur To: CF-Talk Sent: Thu Jun 28 16:15:14 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I guess I'll throw some of my 2 cents in here now. I've been using CFEclipse for about 3-4 years now, and I would use nothing else at this point. Like many have said, there are many good plugins to do whatever it is your heart desires. Ok, now my tip of the day: CTRL+K - If you've done a previous search, and not in the search window any longer, CTRL+K will do the equivalent of a Find Next. Another good tip is if you highlight something, and just hit CTRL+K, it will use that as the new search and Find Next. When I typically search a document, if I can't highlight text, I'll open up CTRL+F, enter my search, hit enter, then close my search and stick with using CTRL+K. CTRL+L - Goes to line number (Probably a given?). Oh, and btw... I'd assume a lot of us, at some point in our career, have printed out a keyboard shortcut list of some sort. Well, you can get a list of keyboard shortcuts, which we all should know by know that they are customizable, and then you can export the data and print them off as reference too. Maybe we can all come up with a HUGE list of the best Keyboard Shortcut lists that is superb for CF Developers? -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor On 6/28/07, Doug Bezona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/28/07, Heald, Timothy (NIH/CIT) [C] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an aside, anyone playing with the JSEclispe plug-in on labs? I've been using it for a while now, and really enjoy it. On of the best features is that you can select a chunk of inline JS in a CFM or HTML file, right click, and open it in JSEclipse - it opens a temp file of just the JS code, with all of the JSEclipse editing features available, and when you save, it syncs it up with the original source file. Wow! I've been using it since before Adobe bought Interakt and I had no idea you could do that. Nice! -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282511 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Unfortunately I can't, since I'm using MyEclipse (a commercial add-on for Eclipse that costs about $40), and with all the plugins and the rest my Eclipse folders are probably upwards of 700 megs in size, which really isn't distributable. However, I have access to the Adobe Community Experts Connect server and would be happy to churn out some short recordings of how to use CFEclipse or set things up. Do you have one or more specific things you think would be helpful to see? Also, Mark (being the awesome guy that he is) has set up numerous short movies showing how to do things in Eclipse at: http://www.cfeclipse.org/index.cfm?event=pagepage=TV On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why doesn't someone who's climbed the learning curve and HAS configured all these hundreds of things, and installed all the plugins just release/distribute their build? Being as it's java I can just stick someone else's Eclipse install on my PC and go to town right? I'd pay money for not having to learn all this and configure all those snippets... Greg ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282323 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
Just filter it. I think it's a completely on-topic worth-while discussion. Who knows what else we might learn :-) ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Cutter (CFRelated) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yo, people! Great pros and cons all the way around. Interesting arguments from both sides of the fence. For those against, file some bug reports in Trac on the CFE site. For those that are for, thanks for teaching this long time user one or two things I hadn't found yet. Now, can we please move this to CF-Talk? Let's get back to the code...;) Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282319 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
They donât have control over the pathing of their own product...jeeze...didn't know Bill had that much power ;-) Eric -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:02 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor I DONÃâT think it was directed at 'fanboys' since comments about 'Eclipse people' not willing to 'fix' something that they really have no control over followed ...:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Wil Genovese [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:24 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor I'm not accusing the creators/contributors of having a bad attitude. I've met with Mark Drew in person and he's a great guy. I'm sure he could find other things to do in his free time than work on CF Eclipse. I think that comment about the Eclipse people having a bad attitude was directed at 'some' of the 'Fanboys' that have responded. All I want is a program that lets me work efficiently. So far CFEclipse is not that program. It could be with more work. It took years to HomeSite to the level it was before Macromedia signed it's death warrant. And now Adobe seems intent to carry out it's execution. -- Wil Genovese One man with courage makes a majority. -Andrew Jackson A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. Bobby Hartsfield wrote: The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. The creators of CFEclipse have always been nothing but helpful... devoting not only their time to develop it but their time to help people on the lists (including this one) and listen to their users when it comes to things they like or dislike or want to see in the future. I think they do a great job. Maybe you just had a bad experience with one of them or something, I donâEUR^(TM)t know but that is definitely an unfair generalization of a group of people who have always been fair, helpful and understanding when it comes to their users especially when it's based on an unzipping problem caused by Vista. http://groups.google.com/group/cfeclipse-users is a good place to see how helpful they (and users) can be. ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282302 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/26/07, Claude Schneegans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is quite amusing because what you describe is EXACTLY what the CFEclipse scribble pad is. Then why would I need CF Eclipse if it does exactly what I've been doing with CF Studio for years? This is exactly my point. - free - still being actively developed (new features/functionality/plugins) - plethora of plugins (xml, css, javascript, etc) given items #2 and #3... why wouldn't you? -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282332 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/26/07, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really disliked the site model as well... The big PIA with Eclipse...you can't just create a blank file without creating a file in the file system. When I am debugging javascript, I will grab the source to see the code the error is referring to...why should I have to create a file that I have to go and delete and go therough the whole file creation wizard process. Pretty stupid and not very user friendly. F8 (scribble pad) In addition to abusing the scribble pad daily, I have a site called playground set up. so if i download a file, or if a file is e-mailed to me... it just goes into the playground folder/site. -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282330 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/26/07, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the current version of both...if it is possible to set it up incorrectly, then definitely puts it in the POS file for me. I shouldn't have to worry about setting a friken ide correctly or not in this day and age. erm it's configurable. highly configurable, which is one of the advantages to it (IMO). with the option of configuration comes the possibility of configuring it... well, incorrectly. maybe it's a matter of opinion... but i'm of the opinion that that doesn't make it a POS. that makes it a tool that you need to get to know and configure it properly. there's always notepad. hard to mess that up :) which actually segues into the distinction between a text editor and an IDE. an IDE, i think almost by definition, is much more feature-rich than a text editor. Features mean configuration and configuration means... well... take a few minutes to figure it out... if you're so inclined... i'm not here to preach to you or to convert you. no skin off my nose if you use a different tool. but if you're going to give Eclipse and CFE a fair shake, you should devote some time to understanding what configurations can be made and how to make them. if you're not willing to do that, then you're not really giving it a fair evaluation, IMO. -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282333 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Exactly. -Original Message- From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor A big amen to that. I'll second also, and I would add that the trouble with many of those open source projects is that they aim at getting as independent as possible from Windows. Well, this may be fine for Linux fans, but many of basic functionalities, look and feel, even terminology we are accustomed to are missing or modified. This is really irritating. I'm sorry, but I paid for my operating system, even if I didn't like it, I'm used to it, and I expect any application I'm working with not to look like an alien with regard to Windows. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282296 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
They donââ¬â¢t have control over the pathing of their own product...jeeze...didn't know Bill had that much power ;-) The Windows zip utility doesn't support the path depth that the Windows filesystem does. I don't know who to blame for that other than whoever wrote the Windows zip utility. Any third-party zip utility works properly. The Windows zip utility also appears to be exponentially slower than Winzip, unzipping any large collection of files. Who should I blame? The guy who created a huge zip file? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282324 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Why doesn't someone who's climbed the learning curve and HAS configured all these hundreds of things, and installed all the plugins just release/distribute their build? Being as it's java I can just stick someone else's Eclipse install on my PC and go to town right? I'd pay money for not having to learn all this and configure all those snippets... Greg On 6/26/07, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the current version of both...if it is possible to set it up incorrectly, then definitely puts it in the POS file for me. I shouldn't have to worry about setting a friken ide correctly or not in this day and age. Eric -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor I think what is being revealed here is that either Eric is using an old version of CFEclipse or Eclipse, or he has it set up incorrectly, or he simply doesn't know how it works. Because as Doug is pointing out, all of his complaints are either things I have never seen happen or things that Eclipse does that he just doesn't seem to be aware of. On 6/26/07, Doug Bezona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This can be mitigated somewhat by not starting with the whole everything and the kitchen sink SDK distribution of Eclipse. If you start with the platform runtime version, and only add the plugins you need, startup tends to be faster, and memory usage somewhat less since there are a lot fewer components being loaded. You can also speed it up a lot by specifying a recent JVM as a startup argument. Using a Java 6 JVM, for example, makes Eclipse open about twice as fast. I have never had this experience, and have used Eclipse for a couple of years now. It may be a particular plugin causing issues, or some other sort of problem. I'm not saying you aren't having the issue, just that it's not the status quo, and is likely resolvable. I'd say something is wrong in his setup because I've never seen this either. That's just the default keyboard shortcut. Virtually every command and it's keyboard shortcut is configurable. It may not be the most intuitive default, but I had the same issues back in the day going from CF Studio to DW, and Eclipse is at least quite flexible in this regard. Eric must not have found the keyboard shortcuts editor, or he refuses to change it to suit his preferences. CFEclipse comes with a file explorer view, so you can work in directory mode if you like. It also now has pretty solid FTP support. If you get the Adobe ColdFusion plug-ins, you can use RDS as well. Exactly. Project mode has some nice advantages but you can absolutely work with directories as well. Most of what I do is not conducive to this project mode crap. I am forced to use it at work, so I also use it for other thing to learn it better and get used to it. I can totally understand why this is a difficult transition for some people, but it is actually a lot more powerful in many ways. Things like working sets, the ability to have a project contain only a subset of files in a directory, or files from multiple directories. Or, it can really be just like a directory browser. It doesn't really take anything away, but does add a lot of functionality. Agreed. I've already covered the huge advantages the Eclipse project idiom brings to the table just in terms of Subversion and ANT integration. I won't bother repeating it again. I don't know the source of the problem...if it is a CFEclipse issue or if it is an underlying Eclipse issue...but this has some serious issues that effect usablility. Eclipse can't even do a proper site wide search or search all open docs. Again, Eric reveals that he simply doesn't know how to do a search in Eclipse. Because it will search selected text, a file, a set of files, a project, or the entire workspace. The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. As Dave and others have pointed out (and now I think it's clear we're in the middle of a full-on trend), Eric's understanding of the issue is completely incorrect. I happen to prefer Eclipse, and am very happy I spent the time to learn how it works, and make use of the powerful features it offers. Not having to spend a few hundred bucks to get it is a nice bonus also. I couldn't agree more. Regards, Brian ~| CF 8 â Scorpio
RE: CF Editor
If it is a Vista problem, why don't I have a problem with any other zipped file that I have come across...with the SOLE exception being Eclipse. It sounds like an Eclipse problem to me. It's not really just a Vista problem, it's a problem with the MS zip functionality in Vista, XP, and Windows Server 2003. You can demonstrate it without Eclipse by creating nested directories to the maximum file path length that NTFS allows, zipping them up with WinZip, then unzipping them with Windows' zip utility. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282321 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
A snip at 400mb :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Greg Luce To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 03:38:57 2007 Subject: Re: CF Editor Why doesn't someone who's climbed the learning curve and HAS configured all these hundreds of things, and installed all the plugins just release/distribute their build? Being as it's java I can just stick someone else's Eclipse install on my PC and go to town right? I'd pay money for not having to learn all this and configure all those snippets... Greg On 6/26/07, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the current version of both...if it is possible to set it up incorrectly, then definitely puts it in the POS file for me. I shouldn't have to worry about setting a friken ide correctly or not in this day and age. Eric -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor I think what is being revealed here is that either Eric is using an old version of CFEclipse or Eclipse, or he has it set up incorrectly, or he simply doesn't know how it works. Because as Doug is pointing out, all of his complaints are either things I have never seen happen or things that Eclipse does that he just doesn't seem to be aware of. On 6/26/07, Doug Bezona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This can be mitigated somewhat by not starting with the whole everything and the kitchen sink SDK distribution of Eclipse. If you start with the platform runtime version, and only add the plugins you need, startup tends to be faster, and memory usage somewhat less since there are a lot fewer components being loaded. You can also speed it up a lot by specifying a recent JVM as a startup argument. Using a Java 6 JVM, for example, makes Eclipse open about twice as fast. I have never had this experience, and have used Eclipse for a couple of years now. It may be a particular plugin causing issues, or some other sort of problem. I'm not saying you aren't having the issue, just that it's not the status quo, and is likely resolvable. I'd say something is wrong in his setup because I've never seen this either. That's just the default keyboard shortcut. Virtually every command and it's keyboard shortcut is configurable. It may not be the most intuitive default, but I had the same issues back in the day going from CF Studio to DW, and Eclipse is at least quite flexible in this regard. Eric must not have found the keyboard shortcuts editor, or he refuses to change it to suit his preferences. CFEclipse comes with a file explorer view, so you can work in directory mode if you like. It also now has pretty solid FTP support. If you get the Adobe ColdFusion plug-ins, you can use RDS as well. Exactly. Project mode has some nice advantages but you can absolutely work with directories as well. Most of what I do is not conducive to this project mode crap. I am forced to use it at work, so I also use it for other thing to learn it better and get used to it. I can totally understand why this is a difficult transition for some people, but it is actually a lot more powerful in many ways. Things like working sets, the ability to have a project contain only a subset of files in a directory, or files from multiple directories. Or, it can really be just like a directory browser. It doesn't really take anything away, but does add a lot of functionality. Agreed. I've already covered the huge advantages the Eclipse project idiom brings to the table just in terms of Subversion and ANT integration. I won't bother repeating it again. I don't know the source of the problem...if it is a CFEclipse issue or if it is an underlying Eclipse issue...but this has some serious issues that effect usablility. Eclipse can't even do a proper site wide search or search all open docs. Again, Eric reveals that he simply doesn't know how to do a search in Eclipse. Because it will search selected text, a file, a set of files, a project, or the entire workspace. The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem
Re: CF Editor
Sorry, head still spinnin' from all theWell, anyway. Good catch (note to self: read all posts prior to hitting 'Send') Rewind. Please move this to CF-Community. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://blog.cutterscrossing.com The best way to predict the future is to help create it Eric Roberts wrote: Um...this is CF-Talk Cutter ;-) Eric -Original Message- From: Cutter (CFRelated) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yo, people! Great pros and cons all the way around. Interesting arguments from both sides of the fence. For those against, file some bug reports in Trac on the CFE site. For those that are for, thanks for teaching this long time user one or two things I hadn't found yet. Now, can we please move this to CF-Talk? Let's get back to the code...;) Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282338 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
He told you why, the depth of the zip etc. As Eclipse contains jars etc the nested zip is pushing it beyond it's limit. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Eric Roberts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 01:40:07 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor If it is a Vista problem, why don't I have a problem with any other zipped file that I have come across...with the SOLE exception being Eclipse. It sounds like an Eclipse problem to me. Eric -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. Yeah...it has a lot of issues. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. This is a flaw with the Vista unzipper, and I don't think there's anything that the Eclipse people could do, practically speaking. It has to do with directory depth, which due to the complexity of Eclipse packaging is pushed to the limit. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. I don't really know why everyone wants to compare these two things. They're not really comparable tools at all. Eclipse is an IDE for programming, and Dreamweaver is an HTML editor. I find them complementary, and wouldn't want to do without either. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282326 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/26/07, Claude Schneegans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is quite amusing because what you describe is EXACTLY what the CFEclipse scribble pad is. Then why would I need CF Eclipse if it does exactly what I've been doing with CF Studio for years? This is exactly my point. I give up, Claude. You keep doing it your way. Keep testing by loading the site in your browser and saying it works. Don't worry about integration with Subversion or ANT or unit testing or any of that other stuff. And surely you'll never want editors for Flex or JavaScript or XML in addition to CFML. CF Studio forever!!! OK, now that we've dealt with Claude, anyone who cares at all about any of the above (and if you care at all about best practices or future skill sets, you should) is urged to give CFEclipse a try. Regards, Brian ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282345 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
You can download a configured eclipse package. I donât remember the URL offhand, but I think the eclipse.org site has a link to it in the SDK section. That is what I am using now and that did help make it at least usable, though I have had problems with packages not loading due to dependencies (why doesn't it get what it needs...after all...if it is smart enough to know it needs it, it should be smart enough to go and get it). I have been using Eclipse for about 3 months now, both at work and in my other endevors. I just donât think it is all cracked up to what the evangelista here make it up to be. It's definitely a tool that grew up in a Linux environment...and to me is about as friendly. Eric -Original Message- From: Greg Luce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Why doesn't someone who's climbed the learning curve and HAS configured all these hundreds of things, and installed all the plugins just release/distribute their build? Being as it's java I can just stick someone else's Eclipse install on my PC and go to town right? I'd pay money for not having to learn all this and configure all those snippets... Greg On 6/26/07, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the current version of both...if it is possible to set it up incorrectly, then definitely puts it in the POS file for me. I shouldn't have to worry about setting a friken ide correctly or not in this day and age. Eric -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor I think what is being revealed here is that either Eric is using an old version of CFEclipse or Eclipse, or he has it set up incorrectly, or he simply doesn't know how it works. Because as Doug is pointing out, all of his complaints are either things I have never seen happen or things that Eclipse does that he just doesn't seem to be aware of. On 6/26/07, Doug Bezona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This can be mitigated somewhat by not starting with the whole everything and the kitchen sink SDK distribution of Eclipse. If you start with the platform runtime version, and only add the plugins you need, startup tends to be faster, and memory usage somewhat less since there are a lot fewer components being loaded. You can also speed it up a lot by specifying a recent JVM as a startup argument. Using a Java 6 JVM, for example, makes Eclipse open about twice as fast. I have never had this experience, and have used Eclipse for a couple of years now. It may be a particular plugin causing issues, or some other sort of problem. I'm not saying you aren't having the issue, just that it's not the status quo, and is likely resolvable. I'd say something is wrong in his setup because I've never seen this either. That's just the default keyboard shortcut. Virtually every command and it's keyboard shortcut is configurable. It may not be the most intuitive default, but I had the same issues back in the day going from CF Studio to DW, and Eclipse is at least quite flexible in this regard. Eric must not have found the keyboard shortcuts editor, or he refuses to change it to suit his preferences. CFEclipse comes with a file explorer view, so you can work in directory mode if you like. It also now has pretty solid FTP support. If you get the Adobe ColdFusion plug-ins, you can use RDS as well. Exactly. Project mode has some nice advantages but you can absolutely work with directories as well. Most of what I do is not conducive to this project mode crap. I am forced to use it at work, so I also use it for other thing to learn it better and get used to it. I can totally understand why this is a difficult transition for some people, but it is actually a lot more powerful in many ways. Things like working sets, the ability to have a project contain only a subset of files in a directory, or files from multiple directories. Or, it can really be just like a directory browser. It doesn't really take anything away, but does add a lot of functionality. Agreed. I've already covered the huge advantages the Eclipse project idiom brings to the table just in terms of Subversion and ANT integration. I won't bother repeating it again. I don't know the source of the problem...if it is a CFEclipse issue or if it is an underlying Eclipse issue...but this has some serious issues that effect usablility. Eclipse can't even do a proper site wide search or search all open docs. Again, Eric reveals that he simply doesn't know how to do a search in Eclipse. Because it will search selected text, a file, a set of files, a project, or the entire workspace. The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While
Re: CF Editor
Then I guess we're left with option 3 (you might not understand correctly how Eclipse works). On 6/26/07, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the current version of both...if it is possible to set it up incorrectly, then definitely puts it in the POS file for me. I shouldn't have to worry about setting a friken ide correctly or not in this day and age. Eric -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor I think what is being revealed here is that either Eric is using an old version of CFEclipse or Eclipse, or he has it set up incorrectly, or he simply doesn't know how it works. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282346 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/26/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it is a Vista problem, why don't I have a problem with any other zipped file that I have come across...with the SOLE exception being Eclipse. It sounds like an Eclipse problem to me. It's not really just a Vista problem, it's a problem with the MS zip functionality in Vista, XP, and Windows Server 2003. You can demonstrate it without Eclipse by creating nested directories to the maximum file path length that NTFS allows, zipping them up with WinZip, then unzipping them with Windows' zip utility. Now he's probably going to say it's YOUR fault, Dave. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282349 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282355 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Thanks Greg, now there is something I didn't know since I haven't used Homesite in a long time. IF you are on Windows and you have Tortoise installed, you can indeed use the Tortoise commands from inside Homesite. However, it does mean anyone on another OS or that doesn't have Tortoise installed won't be able to do this. And it still doesn't change the fact that Homesite doesn't give you ANT integration, Flex editors, JavaScript editors, XML editors, UML, or anything else. Don't get me wrong, I loved Homesite back in the day (when it was the only choice). It simply won't do what I need my IDE to do any more. On 6/27/07, Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean by Seamless integration with SVN? In HS I can right-click on a dir and select Update or Commit from Tortoise and it's done. How can you be more seamless than that? Greg I mean seamless integration with Subversion from within Eclipse. I don't have to switch from Homesite to Tortoise to update or commit. It's all built into the IDE. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282357 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Wash, rinse, repeat ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Eric Roberts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor ECLIPSE...not CFECLIPSE -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:43 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor I don't know why this didn't come through so forgive any double posts that might happen... Eric Roberts said The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. The creators of CFEclipse have always been nothing but helpful... devoting not only their time to develop it but their time to help people on the lists (including this one) and listen to their users when it comes to things they like or dislike or want to see in the future. I think they do a great job. Maybe you just had a bad experience with one of them or something, I don't know but that is definitely an unfair generalization of a group of people who have always been fair, helpful and understanding when it comes to their users especially when it's based on an unzipping problem caused by Vista. http://groups.google.com/group/cfeclipse-users is a good place to see how helpful they (and users) can be. :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282350 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean by Seamless integration with SVN? In HS I can right-click on a dir and select Update or Commit from Tortoise and it's done. How can you be more seamless than that? Greg I mean seamless integration with Subversion from within Eclipse. I don't have to switch from Homesite to Tortoise to update or commit. It's all built into the IDE. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282348 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Using Tortoise in the Files pane in Homesite is about as seamless as using some plugin in Eclipse IMO. Especially since I never did get Subclipse working in CFE. I did use the SVN Repository Explorer and didn't find it any simpler than Tortoise. Subclipse made me install a bunch of other stuff first that took forever. And now it looks as if Subclipse is installed but I don't see anything about it in the Perspectives or menus. I'm not sure what all the hype is about. Greg On 6/27/07, Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean by Seamless integration with SVN? In HS I can right-click on a dir and select Update or Commit from Tortoise and it's done. How can you be more seamless than that? Greg I mean seamless integration with Subversion from within Eclipse. I don't have to switch from Homesite to Tortoise to update or commit. It's all built into the IDE. ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282360 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
Maybe we should all just say 'to each his own' and let everyone figure it out. =) Dreamweaver is great for a designer who wants to code some, and is easy to figure out. Its even great for newbs and WYSIWYG, and works out of the box. Eclipse is great for multi-purpose coders who do much more than just CF and know how to tweak their system / config for max performance. Its kinda like Linux, in that is *can* do everything, but may take some true documentation reading and slogging through message boards to tweak it just right. Homesite is becoming the next bragging program, ie 'Im so l33t I code in notepad / homesite' Any of these IDE's will work fine, some people are better suited to one over the others, just use what makes you comfortable and move on. =) Chris Peterson Gainey IT Adobe Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282354 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
- Original Message - From: Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean by Seamless integration with SVN? In HS I can right-click on a dir and select Update or Commit from Tortoise and it's done. How can you be more seamless than that? Greg I mean seamless integration with Subversion from within Eclipse. I don't have to switch from Homesite to Tortoise to update or commit. It's all built into the IDE. In HS you can operate Tortoise from the folder view. However the filelist view has HS specific context menus. You can do everything you want from the folder view in HS. However you don't get the SVN status icons in HS, so you can't see quickly where your changes / conflicts / additions etc. are. It's not seemless but still very usable. Chris ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282358 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
It's not mudslinging...it's my opinion of their rather rude responses to error reporting. While I'm not a fan of rude behavior, imagine that you're on the Eclipse project yourself. You're not getting paid, of course, and you're getting all these questions about why people can't unzip Eclipse using the Windows zip utility. And there isn't anything you can do about that - this has nothing to do with the compression package you're using, or anything else that can be easily changed. And yet, these people blame you for their problems. You're going to get tired of answering that pretty quickly. Second, terseness is often confused with rudeness, especially in email. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282353 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Alright, this thread got me to open CFE back up after more than a week. Like I said earlier, is there a licensing problem with Brian setting up Eclipse how he does with all his bells and whistles and releasing it as the Brian Kotek Signature Edition or something? Greg On 6/27/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282365 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
as he said... he's using a specific plugin that's commercial. so, yeah :) On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, this thread got me to open CFE back up after more than a week. Like I said earlier, is there a licensing problem with Brian setting up Eclipse how he does with all his bells and whistles and releasing it as the Brian Kotek Signature Edition or something? Greg On 6/27/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282368 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
I think this all started out as a civil conversation of opinions but you seem to be becoming increasingly irate... what with 'dealing' with people and all... maybe this thread has ran its course. I know you (and others) taught me a few new things about CFE that I didn't know so thanks for that. As is, I think it's a good reference for the archives so let's not ruin it with bashing our fellow developers over opinions (which is where it's leading) Cheers ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor On 6/26/07, Claude Schneegans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is quite amusing because what you describe is EXACTLY what the CFEclipse scribble pad is. Then why would I need CF Eclipse if it does exactly what I've been doing with CF Studio for years? This is exactly my point. I give up, Claude. You keep doing it your way. Keep testing by loading the site in your browser and saying it works. Don't worry about integration with Subversion or ANT or unit testing or any of that other stuff. And surely you'll never want editors for Flex or JavaScript or XML in addition to CFML. CF Studio forever!!! OK, now that we've dealt with Claude, anyone who cares at all about any of the above (and if you care at all about best practices or future skill sets, you should) is urged to give CFEclipse a try. Regards, Brian ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282375 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
- free As far as CF STudio has been paid years ago, it is as free for me as any other free tool. - still being actively developed (new features/functionality/plugins) with new things that I do not need anyway... - plethora of plugins (xml, css, javascript, etc) which I do not need ;-) Look, you don't have to convince me that you can do much more things with a 40 tons truck than with a car. The point is that a car is more convenient for me to go to my work, for the kind of work I'm doing. ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282369 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Come on now. If you are seriously saying you can't use CFEclipse because you don't have enough RAM, I have to point out that you can buy a 2Gb stick of DDR2 400 RAM for $68. That's nice if it's what your system uses...the sticks my Dell Dimension uses are ridiculously expensive...Dell charges $400 for a 512MB stick making it a total of $1600 for me to upgrade to a 2 gig system. Lowest price from other vendors is still almost $300. So just not a feasible solution for me, will need to wait until I can just upgrade my entire system. Regardless I agree with those that prefer CFStudio (Homesite) to CFEclipse. I generally only fire up Eclipse if I need to use FusionDebug and while I've tried using it exclusively, I still find myself coming back to CFStudio. I don't think anyone here will convince us Homesite lovers that CFEclipse is better...Studio is just so elegant, easy to use without a big learning curve and has so many little touches that just make my coding easier and quicker. I can fire it up at a moment's notice for quick edits and it doesn't bog down my system. I really would love to see Adobe rescue it from oblivion. It doesn't quite make sense to me that one of the biggest draws for ColdFusion is how easy it is for newbies to learn...and yet we're expecting them to figure out something as complicated as Eclipse to use as their IDE. --- Mary Jo ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282381 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Not to mention mylar, and whatnot... having bug reports and tasks linked right into the bug reporting/project website intelligent targeting of stuff you're going to edit... These things are becoming development AIs, ya know? Sweet... On 6/27/07, Dinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TortoiseSVN, while quite awesome, does NOT compare to the level of integration Subclipse offers. Not even close. There is so much more, I won't even go into the list, but it's WAY different than using HomeSite or DW and tortoise. Clicking on an incomming or outgoing change, and getting a graphical diff of the changes, is swell, and there's history view, annotations, blah blah blah. CFEclipse just destroys DW, in the real world of development. If you're content to be one of these static content editor type people, you will be replaced by a CMS. Unless you're a designer, then hey, you just give your stuff to the web app (say, CF) devs, and they make it live. Eclipse is the bee's knees, no doubt. And the folks have been real helpful whenever I've asked questions... I think it might depend on how you ask, tho. /me chooses obsiquious (remember that one game... ?) ... Mêlée!!! On 6/27/07, Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Greg, now there is something I didn't know since I haven't used Homesite in a long time. IF you are on Windows and you have Tortoise installed, you can indeed use the Tortoise commands from inside Homesite. However, it does mean anyone on another OS or that doesn't have Tortoise installed won't be able to do this. And it still doesn't change the fact that Homesite doesn't give you ANT integration, Flex editors, JavaScript editors, XML editors, UML, or anything else. Don't get me wrong, I loved Homesite back in the day (when it was the only choice). It simply won't do what I need my IDE to do any more. On 6/27/07, Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean by Seamless integration with SVN? In HS I can right-click on a dir and select Update or Commit from Tortoise and it's done. How can you be more seamless than that? Greg I mean seamless integration with Subversion from within Eclipse. I don't have to switch from Homesite to Tortoise to update or commit. It's all built into the IDE. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282377 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
TortoiseSVN, while quite awesome, does NOT compare to the level of integration Subclipse offers. Not even close. There is so much more, I won't even go into the list, but it's WAY different than using HomeSite or DW and tortoise. Clicking on an incomming or outgoing change, and getting a graphical diff of the changes, is swell, and there's history view, annotations, blah blah blah. CFEclipse just destroys DW, in the real world of development. If you're content to be one of these static content editor type people, you will be replaced by a CMS. Unless you're a designer, then hey, you just give your stuff to the web app (say, CF) devs, and they make it live. Eclipse is the bee's knees, no doubt. And the folks have been real helpful whenever I've asked questions... I think it might depend on how you ask, tho. /me chooses obsiquious (remember that one game... ?) ... Mêlée!!! On 6/27/07, Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Greg, now there is something I didn't know since I haven't used Homesite in a long time. IF you are on Windows and you have Tortoise installed, you can indeed use the Tortoise commands from inside Homesite. However, it does mean anyone on another OS or that doesn't have Tortoise installed won't be able to do this. And it still doesn't change the fact that Homesite doesn't give you ANT integration, Flex editors, JavaScript editors, XML editors, UML, or anything else. Don't get me wrong, I loved Homesite back in the day (when it was the only choice). It simply won't do what I need my IDE to do any more. On 6/27/07, Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean by Seamless integration with SVN? In HS I can right-click on a dir and select Update or Commit from Tortoise and it's done. How can you be more seamless than that? Greg I mean seamless integration with Subversion from within Eclipse. I don't have to switch from Homesite to Tortoise to update or commit. It's all built into the IDE. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282376 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
That really is the best thing to say because everyone is different in what they like to work with. I personally use DW8 all day long, could not even tell you how to use any WYSIWYG features in it and really do not use it any different than I used Studio/Homesite. I simply made the change because it was the tool the rest of the group here used and they too do not use it really any differently than they used Studio/Homesite. On 6/27/07, Peterson, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe we should all just say 'to each his own' and let everyone figure it out. =) Dreamweaver is great for a designer who wants to code some, and is easy to figure out. Its even great for newbs and WYSIWYG, and works out of the box. Eclipse is great for multi-purpose coders who do much more than just CF and know how to tweak their system / config for max performance. Its kinda like Linux, in that is *can* do everything, but may take some true documentation reading and slogging through message boards to tweak it just right. Homesite is becoming the next bragging program, ie 'Im so l33t I code in notepad / homesite' Any of these IDE's will work fine, some people are better suited to one over the others, just use what makes you comfortable and move on. =) Chris Peterson Gainey IT Adobe Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282378 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/27/07, Dinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to mention mylar, Mylar (now called Mylyn) is amazing. The webinar linked at the top of this page: http://www.eclipse.org/mylyn/start.php, is worth spending the time to watch if you want to get it fairly quickly. Yes, it'a an hour long, but about 5-10 minutes into watching, the lightbulb will go off, and you'll be downloading it in the background while you watch the rest. By far the biggest productivity boost I've ever had from a single tool. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282383 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
I am still aghast at how anyone can say Eclipse is hard/complicated to use ? It's just an editor in all reality. Is it the wealth of extra options etc? Is it using outside of a comfort zone? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Mary Jo Sminkey To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 17:50:56 2007 Subject: Re: CF Editor Come on now. If you are seriously saying you can't use CFEclipse because you don't have enough RAM, I have to point out that you can buy a 2Gb stick of DDR2 400 RAM for $68. That's nice if it's what your system uses...the sticks my Dell Dimension uses are ridiculously expensive...Dell charges $400 for a 512MB stick making it a total of $1600 for me to upgrade to a 2 gig system. Lowest price from other vendors is still almost $300. So just not a feasible solution for me, will need to wait until I can just upgrade my entire system. Regardless I agree with those that prefer CFStudio (Homesite) to CFEclipse. I generally only fire up Eclipse if I need to use FusionDebug and while I've tried using it exclusively, I still find myself coming back to CFStudio. I don't think anyone here will convince us Homesite lovers that CFEclipse is better...Studio is just so elegant, easy to use without a big learning curve and has so many little touches that just make my coding easier and quicker. I can fire it up at a moment's notice for quick edits and it doesn't bog down my system. I really would love to see Adobe rescue it from oblivion. It doesn't quite make sense to me that one of the biggest draws for ColdFusion is how easy it is for newbies to learn...and yet we're expecting them to figure out something as complicated as Eclipse to use as their IDE. --- Mary Jo ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282387 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
-Original Message- From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Come on now. If you are seriously saying you can't use CFEclipse because you don't have enough RAM, I have to point out that you can buy a 2Gb stick of DDR2 400 RAM for $68. That's nice if it's what your system uses...the sticks my Dell Dimension uses are ridiculously expensive...Dell charges $400 for a 512MB stick making it a total of $1600 for me to upgrade to a 2 gig system. Lowest price from other vendors is still almost $300. So just not a feasible solution for me, will need to wait until I can just upgrade my entire system. What kind of system are you using? Even server type systems with ECC and FBDIMM don't cost that much, AFAIK. Russ ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282395 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Eric Roberts wrote: It's not mudslinging...it's my opinion of their rather rude responses to error reporting. I dare say that not only the response is far from rude, but also that the 'bad attitude' you claimed originally is in fact extremely professional. Not to mention that you make an extremely inaccurate claims as to what effort is required to provide a workaround for this on the Eclipse side, while conveniently forgetting that your workaround does not solve the problem but at best reduces the frequency of occurence of this problem. But I invite all the readers not to take my word for it, but to judge for themselves. The nice thing about open source is that much about what is going on is a matter of public record and it is trivial to look up the actual bugreport you commented on and see what the response was: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=182029 Jochem ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282404 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Greg Luce wrote: Why doesn't someone who's climbed the learning curve and HAS configured all these hundreds of things, and installed all the plugins just release/distribute their build? In my case: because it is a product. Together with configuration, documentation and training in SVN, Ant, EAR-files, automated testing, clusters and what more you need to bring a CF development team from the CF-old way to the CF MX way. Being as it's java I can just stick someone else's Eclipse install on my PC and go to town right? I'd pay money for not having to learn all this and configure all those snippets... We only sell this in the Netherlands and parts of Belgium. Jochem ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282402 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Eric Roberts wrote: I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista... they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista... Why? Obviously, if it was a problem for them the issue would be a priority. Since Eclipse is free it doesn't create more revenue for the developers either. So what would the developers get in return for completely reworking their code? And whatever the response to that question is, the developers apparently feel that is just not enough incentive. even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. The real funny thing is that using Unicode and NTFS Windows supports path names of up to 32k. That is way longer then on all those other operating systems where Eclipse can easily be extracted with the native tools :) By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. Are you willing to fix the limitations of other peoples code for free? If you are, please go fix the code in Eclipse. If you are not, please don't ask of the Eclipse developers to do what you are unwilling to do yourself. Jochem ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282403 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
What kind of system are you using? Even server type systems with ECC and FBDIMM don't cost that much, AFAIK. Here's the link to the Dell page for the 512MB memory for my system. I'd certainly love to know if there is a reasonable alternative to it, it does indeed seem ridiculously high-priced compared to most memory chips these days. http://tinyurl.com/39zp4f --- Mary Jo ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282399 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 14:42:56 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282412 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147005 Still surprisingly expensive ($224), but half of Dell's price. On 6/27/07, Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kind of system are you using? Even server type systems with ECC and FBDIMM don't cost that much, AFAIK. Here's the link to the Dell page for the 512MB memory for my system. I'd certainly love to know if there is a reasonable alternative to it, it does indeed seem ridiculously high-priced compared to most memory chips these days. http://tinyurl.com/39zp4f --- Mary Jo ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282407 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
I can't Greg, but as I said, if you think it would be helpful I'd be happy to record some Connect presentations on using various things. Also, did you see my link to the CFEclipse TV videos that Mark put up? On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, this thread got me to open CFE back up after more than a week. Like I said earlier, is there a licensing problem with Brian setting up Eclipse how he does with all his bells and whistles and releasing it as the Brian Kotek Signature Edition or something? Greg ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282410 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
I think the point was that it doesn't go seamless I the editor...that is one of the good sides of Eclipse...the subclipse plugin is great. I think your issue with it, though, goes along with what I had to say about dependancies. If a software package requires something tat may not be present, then it should either include it or the installer should be capable of getting it on it's own. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to install a package in Eclipse or installing an update just to find that you need to install 20 different other packages to get it to work (one of my pet peeves with linux...though yum and apt do a good job with that most of the time). Eric -Original Message- From: Greg Luce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Using Tortoise in the Files pane in Homesite is about as seamless as using some plugin in Eclipse IMO. Especially since I never did get Subclipse working in CFE. I did use the SVN Repository Explorer and didn't find it any simpler than Tortoise. Subclipse made me install a bunch of other stuff first that took forever. And now it looks as if Subclipse is installed but I don't see anything about it in the Perspectives or menus. I'm not sure what all the hype is about. Greg On 6/27/07, Brian Kotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/26/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean by Seamless integration with SVN? In HS I can right-click on a dir and select Update or Commit from Tortoise and it's done. How can you be more seamless than that? Greg I mean seamless integration with Subversion from within Eclipse. I don't have to switch from Homesite to Tortoise to update or commit. It's all built into the IDE. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282415 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? I'm sure it has, but the fact is, they have the patch. It's a very simple patch apparently. They just want you to pay - a lot - for it. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282417 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
Too many religious fanatics ;-) Eric -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:28 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor I think this all started out as a civil conversation of opinions but you seem to be becoming increasingly irate... what with 'dealing' with people and all... maybe this thread has ran its course. I know you (and others) taught me a few new things about CFE that I didn't know so thanks for that. As is, I think it's a good reference for the archives so let's not ruin it with bashing our fellow developers over opinions (which is where it's leading) Cheers ...:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor On 6/26/07, Claude Schneegans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is quite amusing because what you describe is EXACTLY what the CFEclipse scribble pad is. Then why would I need CF Eclipse if it does exactly what I've been doing with CF Studio for years? This is exactly my point. I give up, Claude. You keep doing it your way. Keep testing by loading the site in your browser and saying it works. Don't worry about integration with Subversion or ANT or unit testing or any of that other stuff. And surely you'll never want editors for Flex or JavaScript or XML in addition to CFML. CF Studio forever!!! OK, now that we've dealt with Claude, anyone who cares at all about any of the above (and if you care at all about best practices or future skill sets, you should) is urged to give CFEclipse a try. Regards, Brian ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282416 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
I am the same way...the only time the wysiwyg part comes up if there is a table that just isn't cooperating. I could probably count the number of times I have used the WYSIWYG iinterface on DW on both hands over the past 3 or 4 years since Macromedia bought Allaire and they decided to can CFStudio. I wish they would take the coding interface and just release a version with that. Or better yet...just rerelease studio *grin* I shouldn't have to configure an ide just to use it. That is a very 80's and early 90's thing. Tweaking and configuring are fine for servers and stuff like that, but an IDE should be fine right out of the box (sans any extra plugins and the such). It shouldn't take a day or 2 to get your IDE in a state where you can finally start coding. That is very amateurish. If I wanted to work in a linux environment...I would do that. The point behind tools like DW is so that you donât have to do everything by hand. There is no need to do everything by hand...that's just not the most efficient way to code. Tools like the tag editor (for example...and yes I know CFEclipse has this) not only speed up coding, but free me up from having to remember every tiny detail of all of the tags and from having to look them up when I need them. CTRL-Z and CTRL-Shift-Z for example is pretty standard. Those are one of the few keyboard shortcuts that I do use...but I do use them often. Documentation would be great...something that hasn't been the best for Eclipse. Again...you shouldn't have to slog your way through users forums and stuff like that to find out how to use an IDE. The interface should be self documenting (and intuitive) and there should be decent help files available. Eric -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor That really is the best thing to say because everyone is different in what they like to work with. I personally use DW8 all day long, could not even tell you how to use any WYSIWYG features in it and really do not use it any different than I used Studio/Homesite. I simply made the change because it was the tool the rest of the group here used and they too do not use it really any differently than they used Studio/Homesite. On 6/27/07, Peterson, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe we should all just say 'to each his own' and let everyone figure it out. =) Dreamweaver is great for a designer who wants to code some, and is easy to figure out. Its even great for newbs and WYSIWYG, and works out of the box. Eclipse is great for multi-purpose coders who do much more than just CF and know how to tweak their system / config for max performance. Its kinda like Linux, in that is *can* do everything, but may take some true documentation reading and slogging through message boards to tweak it just right. Homesite is becoming the next bragging program, ie 'Im so l33t I code in notepad / homesite' Any of these IDE's will work fine, some people are better suited to one over the others, just use what makes you comfortable and move on. =) Chris Peterson Gainey IT Adobe Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282419 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
So aside from commercial plugins, if they are all covered by gnu license could you package up a Signature Build and distribute it or even sell it? Greg On 6/27/07, Charlie Griefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as he said... he's using a specific plugin that's commercial. so, yeah :) On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, this thread got me to open CFE back up after more than a week. Like I said earlier, is there a licensing problem with Brian setting up Eclipse how he does with all his bells and whistles and releasing it as the Brian Kotek Signature Edition or something? Greg On 6/27/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282420 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Would it be an appropriate perspective to say that Eclipse and CFEclipse would be more for companies with Multiple developers working together? I'm currently just coding everything in Homesite 5.5 and It works fine for me. I'm an independent developer, so I don't Have to worry about someone changing anything...checking out Pages, etc. I don't have a running history of changes, but for versioning, I just copy and paste the site folder and append a date and time on It in case I want to go back to that version. I have considered Eclipse and CFEclipse, but it seems overkill based On the conversation here... Thoughts on appropriateness for a sole developer? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 14:42:56 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282425 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Not sure what you're saying here. What is a product? And the rest of the paragraph just doesn't make sense. In my case: because it is a product. Together with configuration, documentation and training in SVN, Ant, EAR-files, automated testing, clusters and what more you need to bring a CF development team from the CF-old way to the CF MX way. What do you only sell in Netherlands and parts of Belgium? We only sell this in the Netherlands and parts of Belgium. Greg On 6/27/07, Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg Luce wrote: Why doesn't someone who's climbed the learning curve and HAS configured all these hundreds of things, and installed all the plugins just release/distribute their build? In my case: because it is a product. Together with configuration, documentation and training in SVN, Ant, EAR-files, automated testing, clusters and what more you need to bring a CF development team from the CF-old way to the CF MX way. Being as it's java I can just stick someone else's Eclipse install on my PC and go to town right? I'd pay money for not having to learn all this and configure all those snippets... We only sell this in the Netherlands and parts of Belgium. Jochem ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282423 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
this is pretty close... http://www.cfeclipse.org/download/ it's Eclipse with CFE already bundled in. Certainly enough to get one started, no? On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So aside from commercial plugins, if they are all covered by gnu license could you package up a Signature Build and distribute it or even sell it? Greg On 6/27/07, Charlie Griefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as he said... he's using a specific plugin that's commercial. so, yeah :) On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, this thread got me to open CFE back up after more than a week. Like I said earlier, is there a licensing problem with Brian setting up Eclipse how he does with all his bells and whistles and releasing it as the Brian Kotek Signature Edition or something? Greg On 6/27/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282428 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Not sure what you're saying here. What is a product? And the rest of the paragraph just doesn't make sense. I believe his company sells a packaged version of Eclipse with plugins and configuration, ready for use. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282431 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Would it be an appropriate perspective to say that Eclipse and CFEclipse would be more for companies with Multiple developers working together? Not really. Version control, management, etc, is useful for one person just as it is for multiple people. I don't have a running history of changes, but for versioning, I just copy and paste the site folder and append a date and time on It in case I want to go back to that version. How do you know what exactly has changed? What if you want to keep some changes but discard others? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282430 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So aside from commercial plugins, if they are all covered by gnu license could you package up a Signature Build and distribute it or even sell it? Greg Greg, This is what Jochem was refering to. They package Eclipse and a number of other plugins, configuration, documentation and training; and then sell it as a product. However, they only sell that product in the Netherlands and parts of Belgium. Dean -- __ Dean Lawrence, CIO/Partner Internet Data Technology 888.GET.IDT1 ext. 701 * fax: 888.438.4381 http://www.idatatech.com/ Corporate Internet Development and Marketing Specialists ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282432 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Yeah, I guess that's a start. But even I figured out how to install one plugin - CFEclipse. I'm more interested in the uber-geek dozens of plugins and configurations/strategies I've heard in this thread. Makes me think I'm behind the curve using Homesite. Greg On 6/27/07, Charlie Griefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is pretty close... http://www.cfeclipse.org/download/ it's Eclipse with CFE already bundled in. Certainly enough to get one started, no? On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So aside from commercial plugins, if they are all covered by gnu license could you package up a Signature Build and distribute it or even sell it? Greg On 6/27/07, Charlie Griefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as he said... he's using a specific plugin that's commercial. so, yeah :) On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, this thread got me to open CFE back up after more than a week. Like I said earlier, is there a licensing problem with Brian setting up Eclipse how he does with all his bells and whistles and releasing it as the Brian Kotek Signature Edition or something? Greg On 6/27/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282433 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
In my view, you're playing with fire, Rick. Even if you're a single developer, I'd urge you in the strongest way to start using version control (Subversion). Copying and pasting your code is better than nothing, but for virtually no cost at all (in money or effort) you can be getting so much more. First, it gives you the ultimate safety net. At all times, no matter what happens, you have a full history on every single file in your project. If you screw something up you can roll back individual files, folders, specific sets of files, or the whole project back to any previous state. You have a comment history that explains what you changed at each step. You can do comparisons between any version and any other version, including locally modified files that haven't been committed back to Subversion yet. You can also set up separate versions of your application, such as a stable version that is current in production and a separate version for ongoing development or bug fixes. You can then merge changes from the new codebase back into the production version. Tags are similar to versions, but you can create a tag on a set of files that applies to different versions of your files. So version 22 of FileA and version 19 of File B can both have the same tag. Yet another way to organize things and have a way to roll your code back that goes beyond just revision numbers. Finally, you can leverage the power of ANT to create deployment scripts that pull any version or tag from your repository and go through all of the steps necessary to move it to production. Things like: - zip the current code and back it up to another directory - prune all unit tests or other supporting files before deploying - substitute values like data source name, path, Mach-II production mode in the config file, or anything else into the code automatically - pull a specific version of the code from SVN - copy the files or move them via FTP or SFTP - set up a temporary this site is in maintenace mode page while the deployment happens - execute a browser request to force a framework or application-scope reload - etc And the beauty is, you can do all this just by clicking on a button. It happens exactly the same way every single time. When you have a lot of steps to do manually its easy to forget something or do it in the wrong order. ANT is like your robot slave, doing whatever you tell it to so you don't have to worry about any of it. A bit of a digression from just talking about the benefits of version control. And again, a great benefit of Eclipse is that ANT is built right into it. On 6/27/07, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be an appropriate perspective to say that Eclipse and CFEclipse would be more for companies with Multiple developers working together? I'm currently just coding everything in Homesite 5.5 and It works fine for me. I'm an independent developer, so I don't Have to worry about someone changing anything...checking out Pages, etc. I don't have a running history of changes, but for versioning, I just copy and paste the site folder and append a date and time on It in case I want to go back to that version. I have considered Eclipse and CFEclipse, but it seems overkill based On the conversation here... Thoughts on appropriateness for a sole developer? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 14:42:56 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone
Re: CF Editor
Not really. First, the MyEclipse stuff is installed into the core plugins folder for the Eclipse installation, and trying to separate out what is or isn't commercial would be pretty tough. I also keep my workspaces, Eclipse installations, and extensions (all other plugins) in separate folders so that I can modify them independently. So for example if a new version of Eclipse comes out I can install it and point it at my existing workspaces and extensions folder instead of setting them up again. Or I can point all of my workspaces at one extensions folder so that they all use the same CFEclipse snippets. Etc. Again though, I could probably try to record a presentation on doing some of these things so you'd be able to do the same thing. On 6/27/07, Greg Luce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So aside from commercial plugins, if they are all covered by gnu license could you package up a Signature Build and distribute it or even sell it? Greg ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282435 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
Sounds to me like your system is so old that it would pay to buy a new PC with 2-4GB of ram instead of upgrading the current ram. I remember rambus being around for a very short time as a transitional ram to what we currently use. There are some cheap Dell configurations, and you can get a decent dual core PC for under $500. Russ -Original Message- From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor What kind of system are you using? Even server type systems with ECC and FBDIMM don't cost that much, AFAIK. Here's the link to the Dell page for the 512MB memory for my system. I'd certainly love to know if there is a reasonable alternative to it, it does indeed seem ridiculously high-priced compared to most memory chips these days. http://tinyurl.com/39zp4f --- Mary Jo ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282436 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Here's one for$120: http://www.memory-up.com/memory_finders/DesktopSelector.aspx?modelId=12225sp=800si=512MBty=Nsystem=1utm_source=Froogleutm_medium=referral But yes, even that is a ridiculous price. I always thought Dell sucked somewhat but that is just downright evil. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282437 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
That would be irrelevant to having 1 developer or 500 developers... That would be a subject for subversion...not eclipse. DW does have a commercial plugin for subversion. Using Tortoise instead of a plugin is more of a minor inconvenience than anything else..I worked in a few shops that did that with no problems. Eric -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Would it be an appropriate perspective to say that Eclipse and CFEclipse would be more for companies with Multiple developers working together? I'm currently just coding everything in Homesite 5.5 and It works fine for me. I'm an independent developer, so I don't Have to worry about someone changing anything...checking out Pages, etc. I don't have a running history of changes, but for versioning, I just copy and paste the site folder and append a date and time on It in case I want to go back to that version. I have considered Eclipse and CFEclipse, but it seems overkill based On the conversation here... Thoughts on appropriateness for a sole developer? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Yeah, but EX5.5 is defunk now, I mean didn't support stop on this like 2 or so years ago? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 27 14:42:56 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I wasn't referring to Mark at all...that was directed at the people responding to bug reports for Eclipse. Instead of basically telling everyone with Vista they are SOL because the zipping protocol they use or something within how they zip their files doesn't work in Vista...they should be trying to fix that issue so that it is compatible with Vista...even if it is a limitation coming from Vista. By telling everyone tough crap...I'm not doing squat about it...it's a Vista issue and it is MS's problem, not theirs...that is a piss poor attitude. I can't imagine Symantec, Yahoo, or any other software company just say...tough crap...Vista users are just SOL...and anyone expect them to stay in business for long. Now granted Eclipse is free...but free does ensure success when they are being rude or acting like small children in anti-MS mode. If you can't imagine any other software company would just say tough crap, you have been amazingly lucky. I get told tough crap all the time from vendors who were happy to sell me things and take my money. Sometimes, vendors won't even answer your questions without a support contract, and then when you do get one, their answer is that doesn't work or maybe in the next release. I could list just the times that's happened this week - and it's only Wednesday - but it's making me angry just thinking about it, and I'd probably regret it later. Oh, well, here's a golden oldie from earlier this year. DST 2007 support for Exchange 5.5 - Microsoft says tough crap, unless you want to pay us upward of $5k for a DLL that we have. And when tough crap boils down to use Winzip, that's not really putting you out too much. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282438 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
But all of that does not have to be controlled by the coding IDE or in some cases it can not be because of how a place might be setup. Where I do the bulk of my work they require us to use their own homebuilt system which oddly enough is all web based and done in CF. No one likes using it but that is just how it is going to be and most of the places I have done coding for have been in some similar situation, only one I can think of actually used some real form of version control where a plugin in the IDE would have been great to have. On 6/27/07, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really. Version control, management, etc, is useful for one person just as it is for multiple people. -- Aaron Rouse http://www.happyhacker.com/ ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282439 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Well it is a Java app and has been told to consume that much at startup (just like ColdFusion). It is also configurable. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk Sent: Tue Jun 26 06:09:39 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor Total RAM used is *not* the sum of the Mem usage and VM columns in task manager. See http://shsc.info/WindowsMemoryManagement - the punchline is right at the end. Jaime Metcher -Original Message- From: James Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2007 2:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor I said that Eclipse only runs well on 2GB of ram and then everyone comes out of the woodwork and says I got 2GB of RAM and it runs fine! What is the point of that post? I'm very glad for you that have 2GB of RAM (and mildly jealous), but the average non-brand-spanking new machine has 512MB of RAM which is simply not enough to run Eclipse properly. I also specifically said that it uses 400MB of [RAM + VM] and I get responses from people that clearly leave off the VM (which is extremely relevant). For reference, in order to see the total RAM (including VM) that an app uses, open Task Manager, click View, click Columns, check off Virtual Memory and sum the RAM + Virtual Memory for the total RAM used. After using eclipse for 5 minutes, you will see the total RAM is at or (far) above 400GB. That is an obscene amount of memory for a program to use. Visual Studio, which is all the IDE Eclipse is and more, uses 1/10 (~40MB) of that at load time and 1/3 (100 - 150MB) of that when you have 20 files open and are compiling software. I honestly dont understand how everyone cheers about such a poorly written memory hog. I understand that its free and you get what you pay for, but there are limits. In short, as I said in my original post, use Eclipse if you have 2GB or more of RAM. Don't if you don't. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282154 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Of course I do. I mean the ability to not open a page up into the IDE with a single click hardly constitutes it being hard to use - as in hard to work with. You don't really have to setup workspaces you can use the default one and to be honest out of the box it is not harder to work with than DW as you still have to use Sites etc if you want to get the most out of it. One thing which Eclipse does lack is a design view and possible Firebug integration, if and when it get's that it will be the dogs full stop. I had been using DW since around just before Version 1, I skipped a version when it made the awful decision to merge with Ultradev and then after that I only used it to working in Design view and doing some visual layout for ease of use, I then logically moved to CF Studio and Homesite 5.x/+ and around August 2005 I moved to using Eclipse and I think a very early version of CFEclipse when Rob Rohan etc were developing it and never looked back. What learning curve can it possibly have? I mean once you have setup a project and can get at your files, which probably takes around 5 mins you are editing CF ...so isn't that job done? -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 June 2007 23:46 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Seriously Neil? You question that statement at all? Compared to 95% of all editors out there, I think it is obvious that CFEclipse has a bigger learning curve. (the other 5% including editors such as Emacs and VI heh) Out of the box, you can't just open CFEclipse and start editing files for one... you have to set up workspaces and projects either with the files you want to edit or create new files within a project before you can edit them. The whole project based editing is the one big turn-off for most people that say they don't like CFEclipse. opinionIf it were easy to just install CFE and simply double click a .cfm (that isn't part of an existing project) then edit and save... CFEclipse would be on every developers workstation./opinion ...:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Really? Why? ***REMOVED JUNK*** -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews To: CF-Talk Sent: Mon Jun 25 19:53:22 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I will say that CFE has a very high learning curve. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282156 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
I think the long start up time (which is even longer that DW's start up time amazingly enough) is a big negative. Eclipse/CFEclipse regularly crashes on me and the tag editors rarely works properly. The editor itself is choppy and jerky and is prone to grabbing chunks of code that you are copying and cutting and pasting them elsewhere in the document (really super annoying). Ctrl_Shift_Z brings up a color palette...WTF is up with that? With every other program in the world that works to go forward on the edit history list (the reverse of ctrl_z). You are also forced to work in Project mode, instead of being able to work in directory mode. Most of what I do is not conducive to this project mode crap. I am forced to use it at work, so I also use it for other thing to learn it better and get used to it. So far I am not impressed and feel it needs a lot of work before this is ready for prime time. Job done would be a product where all the features actually work. I don't know the source of the problem...if it is a CFEclipse issue or if it is an underlying Eclipse issue...but this has some serious issues that effect usablility. Eclipse can't even do a proper site wide search or search all open docs. I have to open DW for that. The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. Yeah...it has a lot of issues. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. Eric -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Of course I do. I mean the ability to not open a page up into the IDE with a single click hardly constitutes it being hard to use - as in hard to work with. You don't really have to setup workspaces you can use the default one and to be honest out of the box it is not harder to work with than DW as you still have to use Sites etc if you want to get the most out of it. One thing which Eclipse does lack is a design view and possible Firebug integration, if and when it get's that it will be the dogs full stop. I had been using DW since around just before Version 1, I skipped a version when it made the awful decision to merge with Ultradev and then after that I only used it to working in Design view and doing some visual layout for ease of use, I then logically moved to CF Studio and Homesite 5.x/+ and around August 2005 I moved to using Eclipse and I think a very early version of CFEclipse when Rob Rohan etc were developing it and never looked back. What learning curve can it possibly have? I mean once you have setup a project and can get at your files, which probably takes around 5 mins you are editing CF ...so isn't that job done? -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 June 2007 23:46 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Seriously Neil? You question that statement at all? Compared to 95% of all editors out there, I think it is obvious that CFEclipse has a bigger learning curve. (the other 5% including editors such as Emacs and VI heh) Out of the box, you can't just open CFEclipse and start editing files for one... you have to set up workspaces and projects either with the files you want to edit or create new files within a project before you can edit them. The whole project based editing is the one big turn-off for most people that say they don't like CFEclipse. opinionIf it were easy to just install CFE and simply double click a .cfm (that isn't part of an existing project) then edit and save... CFEclipse would be on every developers workstation./opinion :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Really? Why? ***REMOVED JUNK*** -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews To: CF-Talk Sent: Mon Jun 25 19:53:22 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I will say that CFE has a very high learning curve. ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282163 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
You are also forced to work in Project mode, instead of being able to work in directory mode. Not sure what version you are using but - you can work in Directory mode if you wish - it's called File Explorer View. You can search on all files / open or closed. You don't work at all with DW Sites? I would say long term that DW will be replaced with an Eclipse version of it. -Original Message- From: Eric Roberts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 June 2007 12:37 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor I think the long start up time (which is even longer that DW's start up time amazingly enough) is a big negative. Eclipse/CFEclipse regularly crashes on me and the tag editors rarely works properly. The editor itself is choppy and jerky and is prone to grabbing chunks of code that you are copying and cutting and pasting them elsewhere in the document (really super annoying). Ctrl_Shift_Z brings up a color palette...WTF is up with that? With every other program in the world that works to go forward on the edit history list (the reverse of ctrl_z). You are also forced to work in Project mode, instead of being able to work in directory mode. Most of what I do is not conducive to this project mode crap. I am forced to use it at work, so I also use it for other thing to learn it better and get used to it. So far I am not impressed and feel it needs a lot of work before this is ready for prime time. Job done would be a product where all the features actually work. I don't know the source of the problem...if it is a CFEclipse issue or if it is an underlying Eclipse issue...but this has some serious issues that effect usablility. Eclipse can't even do a proper site wide search or search all open docs. I have to open DW for that. The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. Yeah...it has a lot of issues. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. Eric -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Of course I do. I mean the ability to not open a page up into the IDE with a single click hardly constitutes it being hard to use - as in hard to work with. You don't really have to setup workspaces you can use the default one and to be honest out of the box it is not harder to work with than DW as you still have to use Sites etc if you want to get the most out of it. One thing which Eclipse does lack is a design view and possible Firebug integration, if and when it get's that it will be the dogs full stop. I had been using DW since around just before Version 1, I skipped a version when it made the awful decision to merge with Ultradev and then after that I only used it to working in Design view and doing some visual layout for ease of use, I then logically moved to CF Studio and Homesite 5.x/+ and around August 2005 I moved to using Eclipse and I think a very early version of CFEclipse when Rob Rohan etc were developing it and never looked back. What learning curve can it possibly have? I mean once you have setup a project and can get at your files, which probably takes around 5 mins you are editing CF ...so isn't that job done? -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 June 2007 23:46 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Seriously Neil? You question that statement at all? Compared to 95% of all editors out there, I think it is obvious that CFEclipse has a bigger learning curve. (the other 5% including editors such as Emacs and VI heh) Out of the box, you can't just open CFEclipse and start editing files for one... you have to set up workspaces and projects either with the files you want to edit or create new files within a project before you can edit them. The whole project based editing is the one big turn-off for most people that say they don't like CFEclipse. opinionIf it were easy to just install CFE and simply double click a .cfm (that isn't part of an existing project) then edit and save... CFEclipse would be on every developers workstation./opinion .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor Really? Why? ***REMOVED JUNK*** -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews To: CF-Talk Sent: Mon Jun 25 19:53:22 2007 Subject: RE: CF Editor I will say that CFE has a very high learning curve
RE: CF Editor
The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. Yeah...it has a lot of issues. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. This is a flaw with the Vista unzipper, and I don't think there's anything that the Eclipse people could do, practically speaking. It has to do with directory depth, which due to the complexity of Eclipse packaging is pushed to the limit. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. I don't really know why everyone wants to compare these two things. They're not really comparable tools at all. Eclipse is an IDE for programming, and Dreamweaver is an HTML editor. I find them complementary, and wouldn't want to do without either. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282166 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
2. In Home Site (a new install of HS5.5) I'm getting a warning message about every CFtag I use (not in current version) and the CF documentation no longer shows up in Home Site. Can I fix this? My guess on this is that you are running just HS and not HS+. I'm running into this as well, and as far as I can tell, HS+ is not sold anymore (I believe it used to be bundled with Dreamweaver). Which also means no more RDS in HS. ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282168 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
Eric Roberts, I agree with ya 100%. I think if Eclipse would make a simple file mode that still allowed its incremental change history on each file, I would use it a lot more. The projects just bog down on me and waiting for linked folders pointing to mapped drives to refresh is just maddening. Chris Peterson Gainey IT Adobe Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282174 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
On 6/26/07, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the long start up time (which is even longer that DW's start up time amazingly enough) is a big negative. This can be mitigated somewhat by not starting with the whole everything and the kitchen sink SDK distribution of Eclipse. If you start with the platform runtime version, and only add the plugins you need, startup tends to be faster, and memory usage somewhat less since there are a lot fewer components being loaded. Eclipse/CFEclipse regularly crashes on me and the tag editors rarely works properly. The editor itself is choppy and jerky and is prone to grabbing chunks of code that you are copying and cutting and pasting them elsewhere in the document (really super annoying). I have never had this experience, and have used Eclipse for a couple of years now. It may be a particular plugin causing issues, or some other sort of problem. I'm not saying you aren't having the issue, just that it's not the status quo, and is likely resolvable. Ctrl_Shift_Z brings up a color palette...WTF is up with that? With every other program in the world that works to go forward on the edit history list (the reverse of ctrl_z). That's just the default keyboard shortcut. Virtually every command and it's keyboard shortcut is configurable. It may not be the most intuitive default, but I had the same issues back in the day going from CF Studio to DW, and Eclipse is at least quite flexible in this regard. You are also forced to work in Project mode, instead of being able to work in directory mode. CFEclipse comes with a file explorer view, so you can work in directory mode if you like. It also now has pretty solid FTP support. If you get the Adobe ColdFusion plug-ins, you can use RDS as well. Most of what I do is not conducive to this project mode crap. I am forced to use it at work, so I also use it for other thing to learn it better and get used to it. I can totally understand why this is a difficult transition for some people, but it is actually a lot more powerful in many ways. Things like working sets, the ability to have a project contain only a subset of files in a directory, or files from multiple directories. Or, it can really be just like a directory browser. It doesn't really take anything away, but does add a lot of functionality. So far I am not impressed and feel it needs a lot of work before this is ready for prime time. Job done would be a product where all the features actually work. By some of your comments, I wonder if you are using an older version of either Eclipse of CFEclipse. I would say things have become quite a bit more polished just over the last 6 months. The 1.3 release of CFEclipse in particular fixed a few issues. I don't know the source of the problem...if it is a CFEclipse issue or if it is an underlying Eclipse issue...but this has some serious issues that effect usablility. Eclipse can't even do a proper site wide search or search all open docs. The search functionality in Eclipse is rather powerful, but is often overlooked because CTRL-F is basically just a quick search-replace. Try CTRL-H, which is the advanced search allowing you to scope the search, and then and then in the results pane, you have a number of options for refining searches based on those results, replacing in just a subset of the files, etc. I have to open DW for that. The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. I can't speak to the Eclipse team, as I've never had dealings with them. I have had some issues even on XP unzipping the distributions which were usuaully due to long file names and directory paths in the archive exceeding Window's limits. There may be an additional Vista issue (I don't use Vista), but I was able to work around this by putting the archive in the root directory of a drive, and renaming the zip file to something very short. It has always unzipped fine then. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. Well, chances are the off the wall open source one is something like GNU Zip, which is open source, but hardly off the wall being that it predates Windows built-in functionality by a couple of decades or so. It's more likely to be the limitations of Windows built-in zip routine than a problem with a much more mature tool. Yeah...it has a lot of issues. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. Clearly, it is better for you, which is fine. It's nice to have choices. I happen to prefer Eclipse, and am very happy I spent the time to learn how it works, and make use of the powerful features it
RE: CF Editor
I would say long term that DW will be replaced with an Eclipse version of it. I don't know about replaced, exactly (and I suspect that's why you have the quotes), but I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see it implemented as an Eclipse plugin, like FlexBuilder and LiveCycle Designer. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282173 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Eric Roberts wrote: The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. I won't even bother with your other points (even though some appear to be caused because you don't look in the right place), but I do feel that this mud-slinging deserves a response. The issue with unzipping Eclipse on Windows Vista has nothing to do with the utility that was used to package the Eclipse .zip. The issue is that some files inside the archive have a file path that is so long that the native unzip utility in Windows Vista can not handle it. Using a different utility to zip the files does not change the length of the file paths so that does not solve the problem. Jochem ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282170 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
Yeah, until Eclipse gets a decent HTML/Visual Editor. I run the whole WTP with Eclipse and I get a shit load of stuff but sometimes DW is good for HTML/CSS editing visually but I am also leaning more and more to Firebug for this. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 June 2007 13:14 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. Yeah...it has a lot of issues. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. This is a flaw with the Vista unzipper, and I don't think there's anything that the Eclipse people could do, practically speaking. It has to do with directory depth, which due to the complexity of Eclipse packaging is pushed to the limit. DW, unfortunately, is still the better product by far. I don't really know why everyone wants to compare these two things. They're not really comparable tools at all. Eclipse is an IDE for programming, and Dreamweaver is an HTML editor. I find them complementary, and wouldn't want to do without either. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282172 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF Editor
No I havenât heard of scribble template. I'll definitely have to check into that one. Thanks. It has been a looong time since I fealt like I was learning anything in photoshop so maybe I just donât remember how hard/easy it was to learn I think that maybe that is just the way you feel about CFEclipse? You just donât remember what it was like to not know anything about it. People that are new to it just really seem to have a hard time for a day or two with it. If they stick to it though and get through those first few days and obstacles, they are usually OK... but most just go back to what they know rather than waste the time figuring it out. I still think DW is just a big, glamorized notepad with a list-view of files and much easier for the average Joe to pick up than CFEclipse. :-/ ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor On 6/25/07, Bobby Hartsfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If someone asks a question on this list and I plan to offer a working example, I'd rather just open up a blank page and write one, test it, make sure it works and post it here... not add it to a project and definitely not version control. There are plenty of instances that you might want to just create a quick test CFM file like this. You being the general population and not you personally. Maybe you aren't aware of the CFEclipse scribble template? It will let you test out code and run it at the press of a button (I use F8). I use it all the time for quick tests. Though if it ends up being anything useful at all, it gets organized into my Tests project (and SVN repo of course) for future use. I have a giant library of random tests and hacks that I go back to all the time when a similar problem comes up. Dreamweaver: double click a cfm file anywhere on the machine.. edit and save. CFEClipse: open Eclipse, change to CFEclipse view if you aren't already there find the file in the list view THEN finally open it, edit it and save (and in your case... possibly commit). Come on... I guess I just don't ever do this. If I'm working on code, I'm working on code. Eclipse is open, the projects are there. The double click, edit, and save that folks are used to in Dreamweaver is not, to me at least, a very useful way of working. If it is anything important, anything at all, it is committed to SVN and in all likelihood a unit test is run on it before it is committed (using what else but the built-in unit testing tab of CFEclipse). I'm not saying CFEClipse sucks or anything. I use it daily :-) I'm just saying that there is no way you would expect an individual who has never used CFEclipse or Dreamweaver to think that CFEclipse was easier than Dreamweaver. I never said it was easier than Dreamweaver. I just said it isn't much harder to use than Dreamweaver. What photoshop has to do with editing CF code I don't know. I meant that Photoshop is an example of a program with a very steep learning curve, far beyond what it takes to learn CFEclipse. When I think of a steep learning curve, I think of Photoshop. ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282180 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF Editor
You test it by saving if you develop in a development webroot... ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Sure you can open a file anywhere on your machine, and edit it in Dreamweaver, but how will you test the file? You need to have a site pointed there. Why not just create a test site/subfolder somewhere that already points to an existing site and put your test files there. You can even create a subfolder and ignore it with SVN, this way you won't have problems keeping temp files around and you won't have to commit them. Russ -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:48 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Editor Of course I'm talking about Eclipse... it's the base behind the CFEclipse plug-in in discussion here. Can't have the latter without the former so let's not get into semantics. IDE, Editor, w/e. If someone asks a question on this list and I plan to offer a working example, I'd rather just open up a blank page and write one, test it, make sure it works and post it here... not add it to a project and definitely not version control. There are plenty of instances that you might want to just create a quick test CFM file like this. You being the general population and not you personally. Dreamweaver: double click a cfm file anywhere on the machine.. edit and save. CFEClipse: open Eclipse, change to CFEclipse view if you aren't already there find the file in the list view THEN finally open it, edit it and save (and in your case... possibly commit). Come on... I'm not saying CFEClipse sucks or anything. I use it daily :-) I'm just saying that there is no way you would expect an individual who has never used CFEclipse or Dreamweaver to think that CFEclipse was easier than Dreamweaver. What photoshop has to do with editing CF code I don't know. ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Editor On 6/25/07, Bobby Hartsfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously Neil? You question that statement at all? Compared to 95% of all editors out there, I think it is obvious that CFEclipse has a bigger learning curve. (the other 5% including editors such as Emacs and VI heh) I think you're really talking about Eclipse in general, as CFEclipse is just an Eclipse plugin and a relatively straighforward one at that (compared to something like Aptana). Even still, I don't think Eclipse has much more of a learning curve than Dreamweaver, and certainly nothing like Photoshop. The Getting Started Screen that shows up when you launch it for the first time will show you everything you need to know if you just take a few minutes to go through it. Out of the box, you can't just open CFEclipse and start editing files for one... you have to set up workspaces and projects either with the files you want to edit or create new files within a project before you can edit them. The whole project based editing is the one big turn-off for most people that say they don't like CFEclipse. I just don't get this complaint. Yes, you have to set up a project to edit a file, but this is not an issue to me. Every single file I edit is in Subversion, even local files, and thus every project I have in my Eclipse workspaces is tied to SVN either locally or remotely. I view Eclipse projects, and their connections to Subversion, not as a problem but as a great advantage. Personally I think anyone NOT using SVN at this point is off their rocker. Same goes for the way projects relate to ANT. You can use ANT to execute flawless deployments every single time at the click of a button. Every step that you do manually to update a site, whether it is pulling from SVN, uploading via FTP, copying across mapped drives, backing up the current code, pruning unit tests and other supporting files, executing a browser request to reload/refresh the app, or just about anything else, can be done with ANT so you never need to worry about it again. opinionIf it were easy to just install CFE and simply double click a .cfm (that isn't part of an existing project) then edit and save... CFEclipse would be on every developers workstation./opinion Unfortunately as far as I know this isn't possible due to the fact that a file could be part of one or many Eclipse workspaces or projects. Eclipse has no idea which workspace to open, for example. Again, to me this isn't an issue. I very rarely just need to open a random file to edit it. Everything is part of a workspace, project, and working set. Navigating between
Re: CF Editor
Maybe you aren't aware of the CFEclipse scribble template? It will let you test out code and run it at the press of a button (I use F8). And MSIE will do it just in one click. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282190 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
Maybe they didn't miss the boat at all. Maybe the idea is to force you into organizing your work, which assists in the maintainability of any application (maintenance being about 80% of any application) Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com Matt Robertson wrote: On 6/25/07, Bobby Hartsfield wrote: opinionIf it were easy to just install CFE and simply double click a .cfm (that isn't part of an existing project) then edit and save... CFEclipse would be on every developers workstation./opinion A big amen to that. I have a very limited amount of time to be anything but productive. If something has a learning curve it has to be a shallow one or it costs me a small fortune to forego otherwise paid production time for unpaid learning time. I've always felt Eclipse missed the boat big time by ignoring what I have always felt was a fundamental unit concept... the file. Instead of wrestling with using the UI you instead get to wrestle with how it wants you to organize your work. Thanks but no thanks to that. All I want is an editor, not a nanny. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282194 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF Editor
I think what is being revealed here is that either Eric is using an old version of CFEclipse or Eclipse, or he has it set up incorrectly, or he simply doesn't know how it works. Because as Doug is pointing out, all of his complaints are either things I have never seen happen or things that Eclipse does that he just doesn't seem to be aware of. On 6/26/07, Doug Bezona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This can be mitigated somewhat by not starting with the whole everything and the kitchen sink SDK distribution of Eclipse. If you start with the platform runtime version, and only add the plugins you need, startup tends to be faster, and memory usage somewhat less since there are a lot fewer components being loaded. You can also speed it up a lot by specifying a recent JVM as a startup argument. Using a Java 6 JVM, for example, makes Eclipse open about twice as fast. I have never had this experience, and have used Eclipse for a couple of years now. It may be a particular plugin causing issues, or some other sort of problem. I'm not saying you aren't having the issue, just that it's not the status quo, and is likely resolvable. I'd say something is wrong in his setup because I've never seen this either. That's just the default keyboard shortcut. Virtually every command and it's keyboard shortcut is configurable. It may not be the most intuitive default, but I had the same issues back in the day going from CF Studio to DW, and Eclipse is at least quite flexible in this regard. Eric must not have found the keyboard shortcuts editor, or he refuses to change it to suit his preferences. CFEclipse comes with a file explorer view, so you can work in directory mode if you like. It also now has pretty solid FTP support. If you get the Adobe ColdFusion plug-ins, you can use RDS as well. Exactly. Project mode has some nice advantages but you can absolutely work with directories as well. Most of what I do is not conducive to this project mode crap. I am forced to use it at work, so I also use it for other thing to learn it better and get used to it. I can totally understand why this is a difficult transition for some people, but it is actually a lot more powerful in many ways. Things like working sets, the ability to have a project contain only a subset of files in a directory, or files from multiple directories. Or, it can really be just like a directory browser. It doesn't really take anything away, but does add a lot of functionality. Agreed. I've already covered the huge advantages the Eclipse project idiom brings to the table just in terms of Subversion and ANT integration. I won't bother repeating it again. I don't know the source of the problem...if it is a CFEclipse issue or if it is an underlying Eclipse issue...but this has some serious issues that effect usablility. Eclipse can't even do a proper site wide search or search all open docs. Again, Eric reveals that he simply doesn't know how to do a search in Eclipse. Because it will search selected text, a file, a set of files, a project, or the entire workspace. The Eclipse people also seem to have a bad attitude. On Vista, there seems to be a problem unpacking the code using the native unzipper. While all my other zipped files that have been zipped by WinZip and WinRar seem to work fine, Eclipse requires the use of a third party package to unzip. This is something that the Eclipse peole are unwilling (and have stated so) to fix by using a better compression package instead of some off the wall open source POS one. As Dave and others have pointed out (and now I think it's clear we're in the middle of a full-on trend), Eric's understanding of the issue is completely incorrect. I happen to prefer Eclipse, and am very happy I spent the time to learn how it works, and make use of the powerful features it offers. Not having to spend a few hundred bucks to get it is a nice bonus also. I couldn't agree more. Regards, Brian ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282196 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF Editor
Thank you for missing the point, Claude. Which was that you CAN easily run simple tests or try things out within Eclipse without having to set up new projectes or files over and over. On 6/26/07, Claude Schneegans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe you aren't aware of the CFEclipse scribble template? It will let you test out code and run it at the press of a button (I use F8). And MSIE will do it just in one click. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:282197 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
