Very amusing, but wine is very different to audio equipment, if only
because wine is an organic material, and not stable. It can get better
(or much worse!) with age, and there are different styles of wine -
different grape varieties/ripeness, leading to different
sugar/alcohol/tannin content,
ralphpnj wrote:
Good points. However there are more similarities with audio than you
think. For example different grapes could be analogous to different
types of amplification, i.e. solid state versus tube, and different vats
to different types of speakers, i.e. dynamic versus planar.
netchord wrote:
you've completely (obtusely?) missed my point. none of my experience
invalidates your own, and the the reverse should be true as well.
There is an important point of misunderstanding here. Of course no one's
experience invalidates (or validates, for that matter) anyone else's.
Chrobrego wrote:
Not to deviate from the original debate but just to mention the
complexity of the HiFi sound capture and reproduction, I would avoid the
expression bit-perfect but rather call it bit-unperfect. Bit is
digital - not real - world and already translates irremediable sound
Archimago wrote:
LOL - good one man :-)
Audio Asylum - where the crazies live (along side the AudioStream
reviewer of USB cables and manufacturers); fascinating one-liners:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudiom=123111
Oh dear! Amongst the crude insults, there is this gem:
Chrobrego wrote:
I don't buy the bit-perfect statement as a scientific fact. What about
the timing in this reasoning? Should we also state that a cd should
always sound the same in whatever hardware it is read only because it
contains the same bits in both situations?
The reality is
netchord wrote:
you're sure of this, that no tests exist? i know some very talented
audio engineers, not wild-eyed audiophiles, who come from decidedly
different disciplines, working with simple tube circuits, or exotic
highpowered DSP based systems, who would not agree with you.
Please ask
Julf wrote:
I don't think a real audiophile would get it at all. It is making fun
(among other things) of the argument by appeal to authority by
pointing out that taking every statement Einstein ever made as literal
declarations of truth is very silly indeed.
This is a very important point,
Science which doesn't follow the evidence, wherever it leads, without
fear or favour, is not science in my opinion. The uses to which it is
put, of course, is an entirely different question.
garym - I completely agree, it drives me crazy, and more often than
sometimes! It astounds me that
netchord wrote:
what is your definition of an audiophile?
Perhaps, people, like the White Queen in -Through the Looking Glass-,
who can believe 6 impossible things before breakfast, and who encourage
the same in others?
Alice laughed: There's no use trying, she said; one can't believe
garym wrote:
And by the way, the word audiophile only has negative connotation for
me.
Me, too. The democratisation of audio, via computers, the internet,
and particularly the open source movement, is what did it for me. The
days of high priests with a monopoly on the knowledge and technology
netchord wrote:
these are only the most likely causes if you believe, as you seem to,
that there can be no differences unless something is broken.
To be clear, let's remember we're talking about the perception of
differences between FLAC and AIFF, not differences in general. These are
I suppose that humidity would likely have a greater effect than the type
of (lossless) compression. Light levels I'm not so sure about, although
if it got so dark that I couldn't find my armchair or remote control,
there would be consequences...
Archimago wrote:
My opinion piece on digital cables (but much applies to analogue as
well). This one could make some folks unhappy!
TGIF!
Enjoy the weekend, everyone!
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/musings-audiophile-digital-cables.html
Good piece!
Your experiment in using one
Archimago wrote:
Dunno about that right-left issue, but I think if you investigate the
directional flow issue, you would see that there is only *one* correct
direction. Connecting backwards and you're sure to be hearing curtains
between you and the music. Just ask the guys running that cable
Archimago wrote:
...It's fun just putting stuff out there in a more empirical
fashion...
At the risk of repeating myself, it's great that you feel this way. Our
society (and the internet which is simply a reflection of society) is
far too polluted by conspiracy theorists and mystics (and dare
netchord wrote:
well, SC is converting ALAC to FLAC using faad/sox, so i guess the
difference I'm hearing is actually between FLAC and AIFF, both of which
are converted natively by the TP.
and would it surprise you to learn i hear a difference between wired and
wireless to the TP, and
SBGK wrote:
chill wrote:
John
I can't tell if you're just being mischievous, but if not, are you
seriously suggesting that the mere presence of a powered-up computer in
the same house as the hifi will have an audible effect? That's a bit of
a blow for the whole computer-based
Rob Stone wrote:
Sadly this is true. I requested to speak to a supervisor (denied), then
engineering (denied). I am very sorry we no longer support the
Transporter. So, there you have it, if you buy a Transporter SE, once
it goes out of warranty you are out of luck, it appears. Just to
Mnyb wrote:
But besides the rudimentary effort to have the settings the same on both
servers before comparing :P
garym wrote:
Bitrate limiting accidentally turned on in one source?
cliveb wrote:
*IF* there is an audible difference between a PC and a NAS as server,
*AND* all the
Deaf Cat wrote:
I listened to an av processor 7.1 all the video inputs etc, and then
the same electronics but heavely reduced with only stereo dac and pre,
for only stereo!, to me there was a large difference, the only physical
difference being less powered up electronics in one box than
Deaf Cat wrote:
...but factory internal software settings of Linux, Win and network
systems is way way above my head, so I'm afraid I can't discuss as I
have no clue why the nas and pc sound different.
If you did understand those things, you would accept that they could
never produce a real
Deaf Cat wrote:
PC as source, music sounded more alive, NAS sounded quite dead in
comparison, I have no clue as to why, but my PC is my source. I would
have guessed the NAS would have been better as there is less electronic
activity going on in the NAS than in the PC... ho hum :-)
It
I don't know that I have a high-end system, more mid-end by some
people's standards - Cambridge Audio 840C CD/DAC, Naim Nait XS and
Dynaudio Contour 1.3mk2. There is no difference in sound quality between
using a ReadyNAS Sparc-based NAS, an atom-based mini-pc or an Intel
Core-i5 laptop. As
fellow human beings, but not in a good way...
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clues being picked up by the patient.
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rgro;697625 Wrote:
Darrell---A respectful disagreement, in my book, should always be,
itself, respected.
However, while I'm quite lazy and loathe to go back through all 185
pages of postings, I cannot really recall that anyone here has made a
claim of any of these mods being science
is my hi
fi going to be set up. No big mystery here.
Of course, professional quality measurement and analysis tools would
tip the balance back towards science, but maybe I should have framed
the question more narrowly - Digital music transfer - science or
craft?
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a bit-perfect stream to the DAC?
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magiccarpetride;697915 Wrote:
Which is where personal taste enters the picture, at which point all
bets are off.
As would be the pursuit of high fidelity!
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remember the exact commands now). BTW, I also ran the
server on my laptop, on battery power.
My standard setup is wifi, LMS on a mini-atom nettop, music library
on a separate NAS drive.
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of the
pervasiveness of post modern ideas in society is that clarity of
thought is often mistaken for stridency.
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.
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rgro;697625 Wrote:
Darrell---A respectful disagreement, in my book, should always be,
itself, respected.
However, while I'm quite lazy and loathe to go back through all 185
pages of postings, I cannot really recall that anyone here has made a
claim of any of these mods being science
.
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Might I suggest that the powers that be close this thread now? It is in
severe danger of going round in circles, not for the first time. Those
who are interested in these things would be able to continue their
discussion on Soundcheck's blog, which is probably the best place for
it.
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into the dead end
which is server software tweaking.
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out of 10)?
Listen - your point has been made. It's here in this thread,
uncensored. All was quiet and peaceful until you piped up again - I
fear that you should look closer to home if you want to find the troll.
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darrell
want to store and transmit a bandwidth-limited
waveform.
As far as not trying it out is concerned, the original article under
discussion in this post gives links to the double-blind tests which
would seem to confirm what the theory tells us, that there is no
audible difference.
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OK, unplugged player from the power, stopped server, started server,
replugged player - problem still exists.
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disc the same track is 6:09 and no
pre-gap before the next track.
I don't know if it's the inter-track gap, or the long lead-out, or
both, which is causing my receiver to give up on the stream. I'm now
ripping the commercial release disc, and will report back.
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darrell
darrell;694168 Wrote:
I think you're exactly right.
It's a long story, but the album which I ripped was a promo/demo copy,
and now I have a copy of the actual release disc. I've compared the
two, and have found that the commercial release does not have the
inter-track gaps, and also
is to recognise and mitigate these
effects. In the field of audio, it means we need to be very careful
(and very sceptical) indeed.
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View
, for example, have a good reputation
for providing plenty of power - unlike some, their specifications seem
to be conservative.
Exactly how much you spend on amplification will depend on the size of
your room and the efficiency and impedance of your speakers.
--
darrell
poor one.
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by golden-eared audiophiles is, by definition, not
evidence),
then we might have the basis for a sensible discussion.
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that
actually manufacturing anything worthwhile?
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of
delivering the same information content, is not an issue at the
frontiers of science, it is simple madness.
Without some sort of quality control (not to say a sanity filter), we
might as well all go looking for Russell's teapot.
--
darrell
the gross distortions in the conversion of
electrical energy back into sound waves, and the further distortion of
those sound waves between my speakers and my ears?
Seriously, this knee jerk source first stuff has to stop.
--
darrell
to be too loud. If you post your approximate budget,
I'm sure that a few of us would have specific recommendations.
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with using the SBT to control level.
To some extent your choice will depend on the speakers (specifically
their ease of drive) - what model of Tannoy do you have?
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subjective twaddle on his web site, from a rave review of
one of his products in Hifi World. Apparently his streamer makes the
Spice Girls listenable!
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bit its equal. My belief
is that in a world of multi-input DACs, either stand-alone or built into
amplifiers/receivers, the expensive single-purpose player has had its
day.
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source feeding it,
but still market extremely expensive digital source components. Don't
get me wrong - if I had unlimited resources, I'd probably buy a
complete Naim setup, but I wouldn't kid myself that my motivation was
the sound quality.
--
darrell
. Apparently
hearing a difference is just about the least solid reason there is
for believing there is actually a difference. The arguments have been
rehearsed comprehensively in various recent threads, I won't elaborate
now.
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darrell
Touch, toslink, Cambridge Audio 840C
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a reboot and put
those directly into Triode's framework without having to use the tt
interface.
John S.
Very true. Almost all changes to a Linux system can be made without
rebooting - it's not at all like Windows!
--
darrell
active speakers with built-in room
correction, which do not need to be placed out in the room, far from
boundaries? I know I've just described a Meridian system, but I mean
more towards the mass market.
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darrell's
are
crazy.
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ban on condoms you tell me that BS is not harmfull :)
Bs perverts the human mind thats the problem.
I couldn't agree more.
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use?
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aim here is to maximize amusement, rather than coherence.
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/sokal/lingua_franca_v4/lingua_franca_v4.html
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people the benefit of the doubt.
It is a logical impossibility for a sane person to hold 2 opposing
opinions at the same time. And do you really want to put your
experience up against the sum of human knowledge on the subject?
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have the time to investigate
then all.
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, and
posting to the forum? If I had experienced such an epiphany, I would be
too busy rediscovering my music collection.
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the equation. There are many here, more
expert than me, who would assist in designing the neccessary
experiment.
But you refuse to even acknowlege that such bias could be affecting
your personal perceptions. So who is being dogmatic?
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-scientific nonsense, even if those doing the misleading are
confused themselves.
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to grasp that. Whsh!
Utter rubbish. If this is serious, it is the plea of fools and
charlatans everywhere. If it is a joke, it is a very boring one,
especially after the nth time.
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, he
wouldn't try to destroy them, simply to feed his own ego. Look at what
has become of this thread, compared to the original post. It could have
been interesting and valuable..
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As long as your network speed is adequate (and there's no reason why it
shouldn't be), I'd say no difference. If for some reason the network
was not up to it, you'll get pauses in playback as rebuffering occurs.
Try it and see.
--
darrell
is connected to?
I believe that these window tweaks are madness. If you think I am
wrong, please enlighten me.
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that we are dealing with real
time music streaming here?
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and LMS from a USB stick or cheap SSD, with your music on a NAS
mount.
You wouldn't have the dubious benefit of mutual reinforcement within
the Windows tweaking community, but you would learn a damn sight more
about what really makes computers tick...
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Pure troll, and not even remotely funny (function indeed!)
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Congratulations, particularly for the honesty of your post. If you want
any advice, now improve your system by adding to your music collection.
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expressed) at certain poster's
refusal to engage in meaningful, rational debate.
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, cable choice, etc.
Then, hopefully, we can have a meaningful discussion about other
factors which might be audible. In my mind this must be uncorrelated
noise in the system. Let's have some hypothesises for the origin of
such noise, then, perhaps, we can get somewhere.
--
darrell
vett93;687720 Wrote:
Music is an emotional subject to many of us.
Perhaps to all of us. But the mistake many audiophiles make is to
conflate the music with the means of reproduction, which is,
unquestionably, science.
--
darrell
opinion, of course. These tweaks are not generally accepted as
having any effect at all (apart from perhaps crippling your computer
for other uses, if you go too far, or are not sure what you are doing).
--
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darrell's
For those who hear a difference using different server settings, an easy
experiment - run LMS on a laptop, running on battery power, wirelessly
to the squeezebox. Is there still a difference?
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homes, sometimes separated by
many decades from the original performances.
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are doing, then just don't do it.
In any case, you should have a full backup of your system, and be
prepared to spend the hours (at least) which it would take to use it,
should things go wrong.
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, and I
noticed that one of the cables was shielded and one not. Might the
shield play a part in transmitting electrical noise from computer to
player? It reminded me - you didn't reply to my suggestion here
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236page=3 that you
try wifi...
--
darrell
correct and that is why I am so
sensitive to an imperfect aural picture.
OK, taking this at face value: is your SBT connected wired or
wirelessly? If wired, what kind of ethernet cables are you using
between your server and the Touch?
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with server settings vs wifi without server settings.
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?
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, and that the question of whether you are also deluded
depends on whether you believe any of the rubbish you spout. The jury
is out on that one, but on balance, I believe that you do, and that any
amount of bluster will not hide it.
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, factual corrections only in the
future, no direct engagement. (But I do hope the propeller
detachment/meltdown makes it on to Youtube sometime ;))
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vett93;685905 Wrote:
Can someone explain to me why reducing the buffer size could improve the
sound?
It's a question of timing - for how ever many seconds by which you have
reduced the buffer, you will hear music, whereas before, you didn't ;-)
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darrell
the the whim of software
companies, store your music in an open source format (e.g. flac) on an
open source file system (e.g. Ext3/4). Similar advice apples to the
storage of any type of data.
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. Then I
switch back to 4K and it sounds like 20K used to sound.
All this tweaking is making me neurotic and preventing me from enjoying
the music in a relaxed state of mind.
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as the material cost to them of including the
equivalent to a $99 (retail price) power cable is likely to be
negligible compared to what they ask for their amplifiers?
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power cable improved the sound of
my amplifier, I would buy a single example of said power cable and
reverse engineer it.
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the
computer as a realtime musical instrument, for example. But it will
also place more demands on the program which is supplying the data, as
buffer underruns will become more likely, resulting in a pause in the
stream. I fail to see how low latency is important to playback systems.
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...
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, otherwise.
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else, is trivial. The practicalities are of course different.
But in the case of an electrical conductor, where there are only three
parameters...
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that I'm fully aware of the sham.
Guiding him from making the first quote to the second amused me,
anyway. Perhaps I have too much time on my hands...
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, there is no substitute for a decent bitrate, and that's no
substitute for FM with a good signal. Such is progress...
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