Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-23 Thread Florian Effenberger via mailop
Hi, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote on 21.10.22 at 18:28: To stay ontopic here, the question is: _why_ were you getting "blocks left and right"? And what were they? Was it a "fresh & clean" IPv4 address or one that had been abused in the past? What did the RBL checking tools tell you ab

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Julian Bradfield via mailop
On 2022-10-21, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: [ in reply to a poster who had pain setting up new mxes ] > To stay ontopic here, the question is: _why_ were you getting "blocks left > and right"? And what were they? > > Was it a "fresh & clean" IPv4 address or one that had been abused in

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 21.10.22 um 00:33 schrieb Graeme Fowler via mailop: No. There will be no changes to the Exim default configuration, nor should there be.If the suggestion was made of a commercial product with thousands of people behind it, it would likely result in costly litigation. Am 21.10.22 um 10:08 s

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 21.10.22 um 09:39 schrieb Florian Effenberger via mailop: I am neither a package maintainer nor a mail server developer, so my voice likely is just a very small one - but last year I've been gone through a lot of the pain with setting up a new mail server on a new IP address and getting bl

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Taavi Eomäe via mailop
On 21/10/2022 15:36, Bjoern Franke via mailop wrote: And then tld.t-online.de sends e.g contact form spam from "anonym...@hostmaster.telekom.de" and produces backscatter. They don't even apply their own rules to their customers. Why should we accept mail from tld.t-online.de when we don't know

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Bjoern Franke via mailop
Am 21.10.22 um 13:27 schrieb Gellner, Oliver via mailop: On 20.10.22 20:30, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Since t-online.de is the only "walled garden mail domain" known – at least AFAIK? –, any email to and especially from @t-online.de should be rejected in any default configuration o

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Gellner, Oliver via mailop
On 20.10.22 20:30, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: > Since t-online.de is the only "walled garden mail domain" known – at least > AFAIK? –, any email to and especially from @t-online.de should be rejected in > any default configuration of any MTA. t-online.de is not the only domain. You ca

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 20.10.2022 o godz. 23:09:07 Grant Taylor via mailop pisze: > > I suspect that there are *MANY* Business-to-Business email servers that use > similar filtering and only allow /specific/ previously white listed > addresses to communicate. That's the exact same thing that T-Online is > doing.

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop
On 10/21/22 04:13, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Am 21.10.22 um 00:33 schrieb Graeme Fowler via mailop: No. There will be no changes to the Exim default configuration So sad. It's up to the packagers then to fix the shit that hits the fan. Being a packager for exim, I can tell you

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-21 Thread Florian Effenberger via mailop
Hi, Grant Taylor via mailop wrote on 21.10.22 at 07:09: I believe there have been multiple others beside myself that think that T-Online should NOT be shunned in MTA /default/ configurations. I am neither a package maintainer nor a mail server developer, so my voice likely is just a very sma

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Lena--- via mailop
> From: Kai 'wusel' Siering > > Then a different check: > > I don't speak smail3^Hexim anymore, but I assume it's somewhat similar to > > telnet $mx 25 > if 2xx send quit > if 5xx set fuckem=1 && send quit || ignore errors > if $fuckem<1 die in_peace else wreck havoc > > ? I don't know why, b

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Grant Taylor via mailop
On 10/20/22 9:14 PM, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: But their "policy" does not adhere Yes, T-Online /does/ adhere to T-Online's policy of only accepting email from senders that T-Online considers to be blessed. No. They 554 anyone, including me from any of my 1k+ v4 IPs except for 2

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 21.10.22 um 02:23 schrieb Grant Taylor via mailop: On 10/20/22 4:49 PM, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Another rule from an earlier era outlines one of the fundamental principles of the Internet Agreement:  I will accept your traffic, *subject* *to* /my/ *policies* and agreements, if

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 21.10.22 um 00:33 schrieb Graeme Fowler via mailop: No. There will be no changes to the Exim default configuration So sad. It's up to the packagers then to fix the shit that hits the fan. -kai ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 20.10.22 um 23:07 schrieb Lena--- via mailop: T-Online clearly states in their terms and conditions that they will block servers who perform sender verfication towards them. Well, that's why you separate your MXes from your Sending servers; the MX can do anything from it's IP, any fingering

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Grant Taylor via mailop
On 10/20/22 4:49 PM, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Another rule from an earlier era outlines one of the fundamental principles of the Internet Agreement: I will accept your traffic, *subject* *to* /my/ *policies* and agreements, if you will accept mine, *subject* *to* /your/ *policies*

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 20.10.22 um 21:29 schrieb Michael Rathbun via mailop: On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 20:47:40 +0200 (CEST), Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: However, I still find that Postel's law should apply, in any context, and specifically in this one. You want to run an e-mail server and don't want to be blocke

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Graeme Fowler via mailop
Just for completeness here, and wearing both my Exim and Mailop hats: No. There will be no changes to the Exim default configuration, nor should there be. If the suggestion was made of a commercial product with thousands of people behind it, it would likely result in costly litigation. To sug

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Lena--- via mailop
> T-Online clearly states in their terms and conditions that they will > block servers who perform sender verfication towards them. Then a different check: deny condition = ${if or{\ {eqi{$sender_address_domain}{t-online.de}}\ .ifdef _HAVE_LOOKUP_DNSDB {forany{${lookup dnsdb{>: defer_nev

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Michael Rathbun via mailop
On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 20:47:40 +0200 (CEST), Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: >However, I still find that Postel's law should apply, in any context, and >specifically in this one. You want to run an e-mail server and don't want to >be >blocked, so you should (liberally) accept, instead of "being

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Jarosław Rafa via mailop
W dniu czw, 20.10.2022 o godzinie 22∶01 +0300, użytkownik Lena--- via mailop napisał: > set acl_m_ton = checkdefer > !verify = sender/callout=10s > set acl_m_ton = $acl_verify_message T-Online clearly states in their terms and conditions that they will block servers who perform sender verfic

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Lena--- via mailop
Kai Siering wrote on [mailop]: > how about starting internal discussions within that community > to include a default rejection of any mail from @t-online.de > in Exim's default configuration? > As nearly no-one who is deploying Exim > (or Postfix, Sendmail for that matter) > will be able to *sen

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On Thu, 20 Oct 2022, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: [...] Basically "Max" states that he needed to put an "simple imprint" at http://his.do.main/index.html, which made t...@rx.t-online.de whitelist his mailserver's IP. Thus, even in December 2020 they were keen on this imprint thingy;

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 20.10.22 17:31, Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: And maybe to add to what Kai Siering wrote "Deutsche Telekom's policy for accessing the MXes for t-online.de hasn't changed for 10+ years". Maybe the /written/ policy has not changed, but the enforcement of the legal notice (Impressum) certain

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Andrew C Aitchison via mailop
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: Dnia 19.10.2022 o godz. 18:55:29 Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop pisze: It would be less of an issue if t-online.de would take care _not_ to send to domains they don't take the replies from; but they happily sent emails to any MX in the world

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On 2022-10-20 14:51, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: Dnia 19.10.2022 o godz. 20:08:30 Bernardo Reino via mailop pisze: > That seems really "interesting". How does that impressum look like, which > has the magical power of transforming a private server into a "commercial" > one? What should it co

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 20.10.2022 o godz. 15:51:13 Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop pisze: > > such data online is perfectly valid for companies, for individuals it's > > nothing more than an endorsement for criminal activity. > > Well, just use your ISP's submission service, problem solved. By ISP you mean hosting

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Florian Effenberger via mailop
Hello, Grant Taylor via mailop wrote on 20.10.22 at 16:06: Please forgive ~> humor my ignorance, but what does the imprint / impressum (?) /need/ to have in it? not sure what Telekom actually asks for - but (as you can imagine, it's Germany :) things are quite regulated in the law. Depending

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Florian Effenberger via mailop
Hello, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote on 20.10.22 at 15:51: As a German, you have to have an imprint on anything that is considered a "service", yes, even on your personal, non-monetized blog. It the law ;) And also off-topic here. I agree, this part of the discussion will likely lead

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Grant Taylor via mailop
On 10/20/22 7:51 AM, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Well, just use your ISP's submission service, problem solved. Or pay someone to MX you domain, problem solved. I don't agree that the problem is /solved/. Rather I think using such an external problem /changes/ or /moves/ the problem

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Slavko via mailop
Dňa 20. októbra 2022 12:51:42 UTC používateľ Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop napísal: >So basically they require anybody who runs a mail server to put their street >address and telephone number online to be publicly available??? Perhaps not really. How they can verify, that published phone number is

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 20.10.22 14:51, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: So basically they require anybody who runs a mail server to put their street address and telephone number online to be publicly available??? Crazy idea. And this is the same country that banned Google Street View (probably as a single country in

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Kirill Miazine via mailop
• Kirill Miazine via mailop [2022-10-19 19:21]: [...] > I've sent t...@rx.t-online.de an email and asked to clarify why my fullu > compliant mail server on TransIP network is being blocked and what kind > of problem has occured. And there I've received a response: Thank you very much for your me

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop
On 10/20/22 14:51, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: Dnia 19.10.2022 o godz. 20:08:30 Bernardo Reino via mailop pisze: That seems really "interesting". How does that impressum look like, which has the magical power of transforming a private server into a "commercial" one? What should it contain?

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 19.10.2022 o godz. 20:08:30 Bernardo Reino via mailop pisze: > > That seems really "interesting". How does that impressum look like, which > > has the magical power of transforming a private server into a "commercial" > > one? What should it contain? Could you provide a link to yours? > > Wel

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Florian Effenberger via mailop
Hello, Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote on 20.10.22 at 09:01: I wasn't aware of the timing aspect, so thank you for this! that's at least what I understood back in the days. :-) Whether there's a more fine-grained approach, differentiation by ISP reputation and other factors, I don't know. I

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On 2022-10-20 09:10, Dominique Rousseau via mailop wrote: Le Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 01:33:04PM +0200, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop [mailop@mailop.org] a écrit: (...) (translation by me): Sorry, we only accept messages from proven commercial or similiar servers. Please use the SMTP relay of y

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Dominique Rousseau via mailop
Le Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 01:33:04PM +0200, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop [mailop@mailop.org] a écrit: (...) > (translation by me): > Sorry, we only accept messages from proven > commercial or similiar servers. Please use the SMTP relay of your hoster > or your ISP. How is "proven" defined

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On 2022-10-20 01:40, Ángel via mailop wrote: On 2022-10-19 at 21:28 +0200, Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: Yup. I have another server for which I have to request whitelisting.. but it's a bit more difficult because the front page of the domain is the webmail (roundcube), so I have to figure out

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-20 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On 2022-10-20 08:48, Florian Effenberger via mailop wrote: Hello, I actually ran into a similar problem last year after a mail server migration. Here's what I documented back then in my blog: "Deutsche Telekom, respectively T-Online, by default blocks IP addresses that haven’t been used for sen

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Florian Effenberger via mailop
Hello, I actually ran into a similar problem last year after a mail server migration. Here's what I documented back then in my blog: "Deutsche Telekom, respectively T-Online, by default blocks IP addresses that haven’t been used for sending e-mails to their servers for a certain amount of ti

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kirill Miazine via mailop
• Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop [2022-10-20 00:44]: [...] > > In the German Net Neutrality report 2020/2021, published by > > Bundesnetzagentur, section 24, they say: > > > > In several cases end-users could not receive incoming emails. They > > believed that internet access providers w

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop
On 10/19/22 23:19, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Am 19.10.22 um 21:28 schrieb Bernardo Reino via mailop: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: If you try deleting the impressum, please share your experience on what happens with t-online. Yup. I have another server fo

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Moin, am 20.10.22 um 01:40 schrieb Ángel via mailop: On 2022-10-19 at 11:37 -0700, Michael Peddemors wrote: I am not going to go into whether operating a service on the internet is a 'right' or a 'privelege', but coming into my home sure is.. Well, precisely. Providing an address should be no

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 19.10.22 um 22:58 schrieb Martin Neitzel via mailop: My private Mailserver never ran into problems delivering to @t-online.de recipents. And there's no impressum for it -- not even a matching web server. Then I supppose you're using IP space tagged with your name, which trumps the imprint r

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Ángel via mailop
On 2022-10-19 at 11:37 -0700, Michael Peddemors wrote: > > I hear your message, but I can't believe the only way out is to dox > > myself. > > I don't think it is 'doxing' unless you are trying to hide ;) > > I am not going to go into whether operating a service on the internet > is a 'right' or

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Ángel via mailop
On 2022-10-19 at 21:28 +0200, Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: > Yup. I have another server for which I have to request whitelisting.. > but it's a bit more difficult because the front page of the domain is > the webmail (roundcube), so I have to figure out how to inject the > Impressum there. Ass

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Moin, am 19.10.22 um 22:42 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer via mailop: A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send messages to T-Online anymore.   554 IP=168.119.159.241 - A problem occurred. … The sending IP belongs to a rented host (rented from a major German hoster). The an

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 20.10.22 um 00:04 schrieb Kirill Miazine via mailop: In the German Net Neutrality report 2020/2021, published by Bundesnetzagentur, section 24, they say: In several cases end-users could not receive incoming emails. They believed that internet access providers were blocking emails o

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kirill Miazine via mailop
• Bernardo Reino via mailop [2022-10-19 20:24]: > On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Kirill Miazine via mailop wrote: > > > • Bernardo Reino via mailop [2022-10-19 14:51]: > > > On 2022-10-19 14:25, Stefano Bagnara via mailop wrote: > > > > On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop > > > > w

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Am 19.10.22 um 21:28 schrieb Bernardo Reino via mailop: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: If you try deleting the impressum, please share your experience on what happens with t-online. Yup. I have another serv

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: Which OTOH means that Deutsche Telekom is still whitelisting mailservers that comply with their request to be able to identify the other side. And which means that the subject is false, nothing has basically changed besides the respons

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Am 19.10.22 um 21:28 schrieb Bernardo Reino via mailop: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: If you try deleting the impressum, please share your experience on what happens with t-online. Yup. I have another server for which I have to request whitelisting.. but it's a bit mo

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Moin, am 19.10.22 um 20:08 schrieb Bernardo Reino via mailop: Well, now that it's public anyway 😄 -> www.bbmk.org BTW they replied an hour ago with: […] which means they'll whitelist the IP address (can take up to 24h). Which OTOH means that Deutsche Telekom is still whitelisting mailserve

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Martin Neitzel via mailop
> They blocked at least my non commercial mail server until I added an > impressum. So, I guess they now block everyone without an impressum. My private Mailserver never ran into problems delivering to @t-online.de recipents. And there's no impressum for it -- not even a matching web server. Sp

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Wolfgang Rosenauer via mailop
Am 19.10.22 um 18:25 schrieb Michael Peddemors via mailop: On 2022-10-19 08:38, Carsten Schiefner via mailop wrote: Grant & all - if it‘s a .de domain name one does not need a privacy service any longer since 2018(?) as the GDPR (or its interpretation) mandates that holder data must not be av

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Wolfgang Rosenauer via mailop
Hi, Am 19.10.22 um 14:42 schrieb Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop: Moin, on 19.10.22 13:33, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: I'm not sure how to complain and where. But I hope that here we can start a discussion again. I'm quite upset. Personally I doubt any discussion on whatever mailing

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Wolfgang Rosenauer via mailop
Hi, Am 19.10.22 um 14:28 schrieb Bernardo Reino via mailop: On 2022-10-19 13:33, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: Hello, I'm not sure how to complain and where. But I hope that here we can start a discussion again. I'm quite upset. Is this the new world? A given mailhost (ran privately

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Gellner, Oliver via mailop
> Am 19.10.2022 um 19:09 schrieb Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop > : > > On 19.10.22 18:21, Gellner, Oliver via mailop wrote: >> It looks more like t-online.de blocks incoming connections from the whole >> world, except from a list of IP addresses they maintain internally. To get >> added to th

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: On 10/19/22 20:08, Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: I wonder what happens if I delete the "Impressum" in a few days, but who knows, maybe they do add some monitoring for *that* ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you try deleting the impressum, please share y

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Johann Haarhoff via mailop
On 2022/10/19 20:37, Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote: ...snip... If you want to be accepted as a 'good netizen', then show you are responsible for what goes out onto the internet from your networks and servers. You roll the dice otherwise. Thank you for taking the time to type out a detail

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop
On 10/19/22 20:08, Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: I wonder what happens if I delete the "Impressum" in a few days, but who knows, maybe they do add some monitoring for *that* ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you try deleting the impressum, please share your experience on what happens with t-online. smim

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Michael Peddemors via mailop
On 2022-10-19 10:30, Johann Haarhoff via mailop wrote: On 2022/10/19 18:05, Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote: On 2022-10-19 07:52, Slavko via mailop wrote: For the record, while they might be going about it the wrong way, transparency is key to reputation. If you obfuscate, or don't have

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Kirill Miazine via mailop wrote: • Bernardo Reino via mailop [2022-10-19 14:51]: On 2022-10-19 14:25, Stefano Bagnara via mailop wrote: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send me

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: Dnia 19.10.2022 o godz. 18:56:17 Bernardo Reino via mailop pisze: After I contacted them they told me that they only accept e-mail from commercial servers, so in my case (private/family server) I would have to add an "Impressum" (to the asso

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Christof Meerwald via mailop
On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 05:49:40PM +0200, Carsten Schiefner via mailop wrote: > Having read up the entire thread now, I wonder if this issue might be worth > raising with Germany‘s federal regulator for (inter alia) postal and telco > services, BNetzA. Maybe better trying to get one of the bigge

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kirill Miazine via mailop
• Bernardo Reino via mailop [2022-10-19 14:51]: > On 2022-10-19 14:25, Stefano Bagnara via mailop wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop > > wrote: > > > A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send > > > messages to T-Online anymore. > > > > >

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Johann Haarhoff via mailop
On 2022/10/19 18:05, Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote: On 2022-10-19 07:52, Slavko via mailop wrote: For the record, while they might be going about it the wrong way, transparency is key to reputation. If you obfuscate, or don't have an associated URL with the domain in the PTR records, it

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Johann Haarhoff via mailop
On 2022/10/19 17:12, Grant Taylor via mailop wrote: ..snip.. Do you use privacy options in WhoIs for your domain name?  Since you (understandably) obfuscated your domain name I can't check. I wonder if having real, non-privacy options, in a domain name helps with this. I didn't explicitly cho

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 19.10.2022 o godz. 18:56:17 Bernardo Reino via mailop pisze: > > After I contacted them they told me that they only accept e-mail from > commercial servers, so in my case (private/family server) I would have to > add an "Impressum" (to the associated www site) in order to make it > "commercia

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 19.10.2022 o godz. 18:55:29 Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop pisze: > > It would be less of an issue if t-online.de would take care _not_ to send > to domains they don't take the replies from; but they happily sent emails > to any MX in the world (anything else would upset _their_ users), but t

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 19.10.22 18:43, Alessandro Vesely via mailop wrote: Do you get this error at the connection or after you transmitted the message? $ telnet mx00.t-online.de 25 Trying 194.25.134.8... Connected to mx00.t-online.de. Escape character is '^]'. 554 IP=378.294.445.288 - A problem occurred. (Ask you

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Slavko via mailop
Dňa 19. októbra 2022 16:07:36 UTC používateľ "Adam Gołębiowski via mailop" napísal: >How should BNetZa evaluate who is good and who is bad here? Of course, someone must. As in current state his server's IP is "bad", only because is not "comercional or similar" (BTW my too, but i can ignore it).

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 19.10.22 18:25, Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote: On 2022-10-19 08:38, Carsten Schiefner via mailop wrote: Grant & all - if it‘s a .de domain name one does not need a privacy service any longer since 2018(?) as the GDPR (or its interpretation) mandates that holder data must not be availa

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On 19/10/2022 17:16, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: On 10/19/22 16:10, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: On 19.10.22 15:55, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: They blocked at least my non commercial mail server until I added an impressum. So, I guess they now block everyone without an impres

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 19.10.22 17:49, Carsten Schiefner via mailop wrote: Having read up the entire thread now, I wonder if this issue might be worth raising with Germany‘s federal regulator for (inter alia) postal and telco services, BNetzA. I wonder what would happen if the owner of a 20-storey apartment build

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 19.10.22 18:21, Gellner, Oliver via mailop wrote: It looks more like t-online.de blocks incoming connections from the whole world, except from a list of IP addresses they maintain internally. To get added to this list you have to a) contact them manually and b) fulfill arbitrary rules that

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Alessandro Vesely via mailop
On Wed 19/Oct/2022 14:46:39 +0200 Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: On 19.10.22 14:25, Stefano Bagnara via mailop wrote: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send messages to T-Online anymore.    55

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread William Kern via mailop
Us as well. We are in the US. That is OUR IP space announced by our ASN. So I assume we would qualify as a commercial ISP. That IP (and for the most part our IP space) is clean. That IP has been active for years. I doubt they have seen our IPs before as our customers here in Southern Califo

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Michael Peddemors via mailop
On 2022-10-19 08:38, Carsten Schiefner via mailop wrote: Grant & all - if it‘s a .de domain name one does not need a privacy service any longer since 2018(?) as the GDPR (or its interpretation) mandates that holder data must not be available via WHOIS to the general public. Please provide re

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Adam Gołębiowski via mailop
But that's what is actually happening worldwide, except that these rules that apatment building are enforcing are spam filtering and dnsbl. Not that I like DT's approach, but using BNetzA seems wrong here - once we open this path, what should they do when some well-known spammer who is in ever

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Gellner, Oliver via mailop
On 10/19/22 17:16, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: > Actually, I had to contact them and show them the impressum page to be > whitelisted, so this seems at least partially manual. So, you might need to > contact them for any new IP. But I hope they are smart enough to store the > domain names in

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Carsten Schiefner via mailop
Grant & all - if it‘s a .de domain name one does not need a privacy service any longer since 2018(?) as the GDPR (or its interpretation) mandates that holder data must not be available via WHOIS to the general public. I would not be surprised if that‘d hold true for all ccTLDs where the GDPR is

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Michael Peddemors via mailop
On 2022-10-19 07:52, Slavko via mailop wrote: For the record, while they might be going about it the wrong way, transparency is key to reputation. If you obfuscate, or don't have an associated URL with the domain in the PTR records, it makes it hard for someone to contact the operator of the

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Carsten Schiefner via mailop
Having read up the entire thread now, I wonder if this issue might be worth raising with Germany‘s federal regulator for (inter alia) postal and telco services, BNetzA. I wonder what would happen if the owner of a 20-storey apartment building would only allow properly accredited - according to

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop
On 10/19/22 16:10, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: On 19.10.22 15:55, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: They blocked at least my non commercial mail server until I added an impressum. So, I guess they now block everyone without an impressum. But that's the status quo for several years.

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Grant Taylor via mailop
On 10/19/22 7:25 AM, Johann Haarhoff via mailop wrote: T-Online: the IP address is delegated to your provider and there is no owner data in the public whois record for your domain. Thus, the person or company who is responsible for this host is essentially anonymous to third parties. Theref

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Slavko via mailop
Dňa 19. októbra 2022 13:49:08 UTC používateľ Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop napísal: >It's not the first time this has been discussed, and I doubt that any amount >of complaints from 3-mails-a-month-to-t-online operators would change their >mind. Unfortunately, they are quite big in terms of m

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 19.10.22 15:55, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote: They blocked at least my non commercial mail server until I added an impressum. So, I guess they now block everyone without an impressum. But that's the status quo for several years. Question is: do they still adhere to that, or would they rej

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop
On 10/19/22 15:49, Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop wrote: But see my initial reply: it's unclear as of now if section 4.1 of their postmaster site still applies, or if they now reject any application from "non-commercial" mailservers (as their current statement implies). They blocked at l

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 19.10.22 14:28, Bernardo Reino via mailop wrote: The 554 occurs while connecting, so they really reject only based on the IP/range, which is indeed quite brutal. Hopefully this is just a misconfiguration (or a badly interpreted/implemented policy). No, it isn't. It's the way Deutsche Tele

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Johann Haarhoff via mailop
Hi > Is this the new world? > > A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send > messages to T-Online anymore. I had a similar problem earlier this year which I couldn't resolve, so I've ended up just accepting I cannot deliver to t-online.de After some back and forth with (

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Taavi Eomäe via mailop
I have my doubts about t-online.de caring about SPF+DKIM+DMARC, not having deployed it themselves. It has been quite tedious to filter spam abusing that domain. On 19/10/2022 15:25, Stefano Bagnara via mailop wrote: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: A given

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop
On 10/19/22 13:33, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: Hello, I'm not sure how to complain and where. But I hope that here we can start a discussion again. I'm quite upset. Is this the new world? A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send messages to T-Online anymore.

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On 2022-10-19 14:25, Stefano Bagnara via mailop wrote: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send messages to T-Online anymore. 554 IP=168.119.159.241 - A problem occurred. … Do you get this error at

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Moin, on 19.10.22 13:33, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: I'm not sure how to complain and where. But I hope that here we can start a discussion again. I'm quite upset. Personally I doubt any discussion on whatever mailing list would make Deutsche Telekom change their mind about this. Th

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
On 19.10.22 14:25, Stefano Bagnara via mailop wrote: On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send messages to T-Online anymore. 554 IP=168.119.159.241 - A problem occurred. … Do you get this error at th

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Slavko via mailop
Dňa 19. októbra 2022 12:00:55 UTC používateľ Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop napísal: >But there's another side to the story: > >That hoster is Hetzner. With their equally unacceptable policies regarding >abuse reports, they are at least partially creating this problem for their >customers thems

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Bernardo Reino via mailop
On 2022-10-19 13:33, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: Hello, I'm not sure how to complain and where. But I hope that here we can start a discussion again. I'm quite upset. Is this the new world? A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send messages to T-Online anymore.

Re: [mailop] T-Online is now really blocking messages from non-commercial and simliar senders

2022-10-19 Thread Stefano Bagnara via mailop
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 13:32, Heiko Schlittermann via mailop wrote: > A given mailhost (ran privately for smaller entities) can't send > messages to T-Online anymore. > > 554 IP=168.119.159.241 - A problem occurred. … Do you get this error at the connection or after you transmitted the message?

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