Re: [PEIRCE-L] New book by Michael Shapiro

2019-07-25 Thread John F Sowa
Michael, Congratulations. The topic of sociolinguistics reminds me of a comment by Frank Anshen, a linguist who was visiting the U. of Hawaii, where he taught a course on sociolinguistics. At one point, Frank was talking about ethnic slurs, which usually contain guttural sounds with Ks and Gs.

[PEIRCE-L] PDF of the MSS for Peirce's Logic Notebook

2019-07-29 Thread John F Sowa
A PDF file with the MSS for Peirce's Logic Notebook is available from Researchgate: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334525645_Discovering_the_Future_5-19 It has 677 pages in 169 MB. John - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY

Re: [PEIRCE-L] PDF of the MSS for Peirce's Logic Notebook

2019-07-29 Thread John F Sowa
On 7/29/2019 9:04 AM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Do you have a different link for the Logic Notebook manuscript? Oh?!? Mary K. sent me a note with the link in it. I clicked on the link, and it immediately started to download the MSS. But it also opened a page at Researchgate for her book. I wen

[PEIRCE-L] How to teach logic

2019-07-30 Thread John F Sowa
In an earlier note, I said that it's possible to teach first-order logic in one hour. That led to an offline note with a skeptical question: "How?" Here's the answer: Modern textbooks on logic are written by mathematicians for students who plan to become mathematicians. As a math major at MIT

[PEIRCE-L] New article by Susan Haack

2019-07-31 Thread John F Sowa
Susan Haack posted an article on Researchgate: "From the Chain to the Cable: Peirce’s Theory of Inquiry through his Metaphors" https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334749355_From_the_Chain_to_the_Cable_Peirce%27s_Theory_of_Inquiry_through_his_Metaphors_20172020 It begins with a quotation fr

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lecture by Terrence Deacon

2019-08-01 Thread John F Sowa
On 8/1/2019 7:50 AM, Edwina Taborsky wrote: After all - you can't have matter without Mind, i.e., without an organizational pattern - even of the basic atom; and certainly, I reject any concept of Mind as an a priori reality and/or as existing without being articulated as Matter. I agree. De

[PEIRCE-L] Charles S. Peirce papers in the Houghton Library

2019-08-01 Thread John F Sowa
My first note about the MSS for Peirce's Logic Notebook included the wrong URL. I later uploaded it to LogicNB.pdf on my website. But following is the URL for the "mother lode": all the MSS that can be browsed or downloaded from the Houghton Library: https://hollisarchives.lib.harvard.edu/repos

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lecture by Terrence Deacon

2019-08-01 Thread John F Sowa
Gary and Edwina, GR following Peirce's view--objective idealism--I see mind as primordial. Seeing matter as primordial Peirce terms 'materialism', a view which he rejects as "repugnant to scientific logic as to common sense ET To say that 'matter is effete mind' does NOT mean that Mind is pr

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lecture by Terrence Deacon

2019-08-02 Thread John F Sowa
Gary R, There are two distinct issues, and I admit that I should have clearly distinguished them: (1) What did Peirce write? And (2) What position is "sufficiently vague" to be certain? JFS Finally, the question of whether matter or mind came first is meaningless. Time is only defined in a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Lecture by Terrence Deacon

2019-08-02 Thread John F Sowa
Jon, There are many philosophers and theologians of various persuasions who agree with that equation at a "sufficiently vague" level. JFS: I would answer with a statement that is sufficiently vague to be certain: Theos = Logos = Tao = Dharma = Natura = God of Spinoza, Einstein... JAS: Each of

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Is Synechism Necessary?

2019-08-04 Thread John F Sowa
Jon and Jeff, This is an important thread that clarifies many of the debates. JAS The new subject line is the title of the paper by Matthew E. Moore... Thanks for those references. The concluding paragraph at the end of MEM's 2012 paper summarizes the issues: MEM We wind up with an attitud

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Is Synechism Necessary? (was Lecture by Terrence Deacon)

2019-08-04 Thread John F Sowa
On 8/4/2019 3:30 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Again, the Cantorian pseudo-continuum has turned out to be an adequate /model /of continuity for many (most?) mathematical, scientific, and practical purposes; but it does not satisfy the criteria that Peirce established for the conception of a /true

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Is Synechism Necessary?

2019-08-05 Thread John F Sowa
On 8/5/2019 6:22 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: JFS: Peirce developed outstanding theories of logic and semeiotic with just a topological version of continuity. There is no evidence that anything more would be significantly better. I agree with MEM. JAS: I concur with the first two sentences, but

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [Peirce-L] Objective Idealism and Synechism

2019-08-10 Thread John F Sowa
Jon, Edwina, and Helmut, JFS: The only implications derivable by quoting Peirce are about his texts. The pragmatic implications for our perceptions and actions must take into account 21st c. science, philosophy, and life. JAS: Sure, and I will likewise repeat my fundamental point--in order t

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [Peirce-L] Objective Idealism and Synechism

2019-08-10 Thread John F Sowa
On 8/10/2019 10:37 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: I have /never /claimed, let alone insisted, that /my /interpretation is the /only /valid one A claim that any of your statements is a clarification of something Peirce wrote is presumptuous. It implies that you have some special power to state his

[PEIRCE-L] Charles Sanders Peirce was America's greatest thinker

2019-08-15 Thread John F Sowa
I came across an article by Dan Everett, which has a good summary of Peirce's career and contributions: https://aeon.co/essays/charles-sanders-peirce-was-americas-greatest-thinker Most subscribers to Peirce-L know most of these points, but Dan put them together in an impressive summary. It's a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Peirce and the Big Bang

2019-08-22 Thread John F Sowa
On 8/21/2019 1:18 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: I suggest that [Peirce] could have offered an argument against [the Big Bang] -- in fact, against any theory that posits a finite age and definite beginning of the universe... No. Peirce insisted on following the evidence. An amazing event occurre

[PEIRCE-L] Peirce's work in progress

2019-09-03 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon and Gary R, I had some work that kept me from spending time on email. But that delay gave me some time to put these issues into perspective.  I realized that Jon is constantly looking for Peirce's "considered" answers.  But Peirce didn't have final answers.  He developed a scientific framewo

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's work in progress

2019-09-03 Thread John F. Sowa
I had some problem with my email, and I'm using a different system that has terrible formatting.  I attached a better copy of my previous note. John Jon and Gary R, I had some work that kept me from spending time on email. But that delay gave me some time to put these issues into perspective.

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Intuitionistic Existential Graphs (IEGs)

2019-09-05 Thread John F. Sowa
Intuitionistic logic was founded by the Dutch mathematician L. E. J. Brouwer.  He objected to "nonconstructive" proofs by contradiction. Many mathematicians have been sympathetic, but they were reluctant to use Brower's logic because it made many legitimate theorems more difficult to prove. For

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's work in progress

2019-09-07 Thread John F. Sowa
Ben, Jon, List, See the attached file for my response. John Ben, Jon, List, Everyone has the right to express their own opinions. What bothers me are claims that somebody's opinion is what Peirce really meant, intended, or considered as final. April 2014 was a stopping point. Nobody knows wh

[PEIRCE-L] All links lead to Philosophy

2019-09-09 Thread John F. Sowa
I came across an interesting factoid about Wikipedia: If you go to any Wikipedia page and click on the first link highlighted in blue and repeat, you eventually get to the Philosophy page. John - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON

Re: [PEIRCE-L] All links lead to Philosophy

2019-09-09 Thread John F. Sowa
Orin, That point is true of any hierarchy that has a unique top.   > This suggests to me that Philosophy features as the top node in the > Wikipedia ontology, and is thus viewed as the most general form of > knowledge.  WordNet was carefully designed by linguists and lexicographers as an acy

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Vargas on Continuity

2019-09-09 Thread John F. Sowa
Jeff and Jon, JD to JAS > It appears that we are talking past each other in a number of places. That is an understatement that is true of most of the emails on Peirce-L that mention any version of continuity or synechism -- Cantor's, Peirce's, or the many versions developed during the 20th and

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's work in progress

2019-09-10 Thread John F. Sowa
Ben, Jon, List That is an important distinction: BU:  Peirce adopted the old distinction between /logica docens/ and /logica utens/ and made no notable modification in it.  Logica docens is formal and systematic, while logica utens is informal and is not systematically studied. Yes.  'docens' wou

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's work in progress

2019-09-10 Thread John F. Sowa
I formatted my previous note ery nicely, but this email handler scrambled it.  I'll just repeat the conclusions.  The previous note shows that they are consistent with what Peirce wrote and with 21st c terminology.. That produces three version of logic:  (1) the logic of mathematics, which is t

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Vargas on Continuity

2019-09-12 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary R and Jon AS, I'm writing a longer note about these issues in reply to Ben.  But I just wanted to make one point about the comments below:  Peirce acquired his bias toward mathematics at his father's knee.  It dominated everything he wrote.   And it's the reason why he put mathematics at

[PEIRCE-L] Dictionaries and lexicography

2019-09-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Ontologies, taxonomies, and dictionaries involve related issues about words, meanings, definitions, and methods for analyzing documents to derive definitions. There is a free on-line course on dictionaries that is taught by four researchers who have backgrounds in linguistics, lexicography, and

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Defining Continuity

2019-09-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, List Common sense is what a child learns before the age of six.  The innovations of one generation become the common sense of the next generation. The common sense of European culture is based on a version of Plato-Aristotle that has been absorbed into the European languages and life. 

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Defining Continuity

2019-09-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Helmut and Gene, The  point I was trying to make is that diagrammatic reasoning is the basic method of reasoning in all aspects of life.  It includes the most abstract methods of mathematics and the most mundane aspects of everyday life. If the diagrams are based on formally defined patterns

[PEIRCE-L] "all exact thought is mathematical thoughtl" (was Defining Continuity

2019-09-19 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon AS, Gary R, List There is much more to say about continuity.  But a preliminary discussion of the role of mathematics is essential.  I changed the subject line to a quotation from NEM, p. 4.x: CSP:  Philosophy requires exact thought, and all exact thought is mathematical thought. Especial

Re: [PEIRCE-L] "all exact thought is mathematical thought"

2019-09-20 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon Awbrey, List I completely agree with your summary of the issues: JA:  Best I recall, Peirce's point was that mathematical thought can be exact precisely because it is entirely hypothetical.   It operates purely relative to its own frame of reference,  taking place wholly within its own c

Re: [PEIRCE-L] "all exact thought is mathematical thought"

2019-09-20 Thread John F. Sowa
Jeff BD, I completely agree with your reply to Jon A.  (copy below).  I would just add three points. 1. All human reasoning above the level of a knee-jerk reaction is diagrammatic.  It involves matching some previously learned pattern (AKA image, percept, diagram, or icon) to something in the

[PEIRCE-L] Diagrammatic reasoning by J. S. Bach

2019-09-27 Thread John F. Sowa
I was just watching and listening to a PBS program about Bach and his music, and it shows why mathematicians love Bach.  He exhibits the ultimate in diagrammatic reasoning in a way that integrates perception and action with all the experiences in the phaneron -- that includes the experiences of

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Article on Dan Siegel's 'Mind: A Journey to the Heart of Being Human'

2019-09-29 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary, I browsed through some of Siegel's writings and listened to one of his YouTube talks.  They reminded me of  the PBS program about Bach, which I mentioned in a note on Friday.  J. S. Bach is an excellent example of  a man with a brilliant mind that was integrated with every aspect of the b

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Article on Dan Siegel's 'Mind: A Journey to the Heart of Being Human'

2019-09-30 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary R, List, I came across a review by Olivia Goldhill of Siegel's book (see excerpts below).  It has a good  description of the relational view of mind, which is consistent with Peirce's relational view of reasoning:  Relations (1ns, 2ns, and 3ns) are the foundation of  all reasoning, both

[PEIRCE-L] Identity is a problematical concept

2019-10-05 Thread John F. Sowa
Identity, as expressed by the symbol '=' or by Peirce's line of identity, is fundamental for mathematics, logic, and theories of ontology.  But the criteria for determining whether two occurrences of similar things may be considered "identical" depend on the relevant context.  A baby and an adu

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [ontolog-forum] Re: Peirce's 1870 "Logic Of Relatives"

2019-10-11 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, > whether I might be comparing apples and oranges in lumping philosophical and mathematical categories under the same head...  there are many differences in the categorical paradigms different observers developed over the centuries. There are two kinds of people:  lumpers and splitters.

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phenomenological categories

2019-10-11 Thread John F. Sowa
Jeff, When I mentioned the distinction between lumping and splitting, I wasn't making a value judgment.  >From the Wikipedia article on "lumpers and splitters":  "The earliest known use of these terms was by Charles Darwin, in a letter to J. D. Hooker in 1857:  It is good to have hair-splitt

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phenomenological categories

2019-10-12 Thread John F. Sowa
Mike, > But this is your framing, John, not the framing Jeffrey is pursuing. I think his recent posts are some of the most thoughtful of recent months. I agree.  I wrote that note in support of Jeff.  I quoted Darwin, who said that we need both kinds of thinking and an analysis of the tradeoff

[PEIRCE-L] Leonardo da Vinci (was Peirce's 1870 "Logic Of Relatives"

2019-10-12 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon A, List I strongly agree with your emphasis on Peirce's mathematics and logic, which were the foundation for his way of thinking, writing, and research from early childhood to the end.  But we should also emphasize that all exact thinking in every field is diagrammatic and mathematical.  T

[PEIRCE-L] Ethics of terminology (was The Difference That Makes A Difference...

2019-10-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon A, List I  very strongly agree with the following two points: JA 1> There appears to be some sort of disagreement, or maybe just failure to communicate, but I'm still having trouble putting my finger on what the source of the issue might be. I believe that the source of the problem lies i

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Ethics of Terminology

2019-10-14 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon A, List, On the following point, we are in complete agreement: JA> as far as my personal usage goes, I've always suggested there is a place for descriptive semiotics, whether of not that was Peirce's way of drawing the distinctions. The great logician Frank Ramsey used the term 'human lo

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Ethics of Terminology (EoT)

2019-10-14 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon A, List, I strongly agree with those two points: JA 1> It's been my observation over many decades that people invoke the "ethics of terminology" mainly to inveigh against everyone's innovations but their own Yes indeed.  I have experienced that kind of criticism.  That's why I'm using Peir

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [ontolog-forum] How can we design ethical robots? (was The Difference...

2019-10-15 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon A, List, I replaced the subject line with a very specific question. That question is closely related to the question "How can we raise ethical children?  he logical positivists destroyed philosophy by rejecting value judgments. Carnap was a very intelligent, but emotionally stupid positivi

Re: [PEIRCE-L] How can we design ethical robots?

2019-10-15 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon A, List, Pure mathematics is the study of pure form (i.e., diagrammatic reasoning) without any admixture of emotion, sentiment, or value judgments about Beauty, Goodness. and Truth.  Boolean algebra computes the values 1 and 0.  But the assumption that 1 and 0 correspond to what we mean by

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Ethics of terminology (was The Difference That Makes A Difference...

2019-10-20 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon AS, List I've been writing a paper with a tight deadline and haven't had time to write longer emails.  And this subject gets into too many issues to be discussed briefly.  JAS> For whatever reason, Peirce more commonly employed "mathematical logic," "logic of mathematics," or "mathematic

[PEIRCE-L] Problems with nomenclature

2019-10-28 Thread John F. Sowa
Peirce used the practice in biology and chemistry as a guideline for his ethics of terminology.  The basic idea is that the person who first discovers a new species or chemical element has the right to name it.  But that policy can have unintended consequences.  URL and excerpts below. John --

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Semiotics, Semiosis, Sign Relations

2019-10-30 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, JA> It's a common mistake to confound infinite with unbounded. A process can continue without end and still be "bounded in a nutshell". So a sign process can pass from sign to interpretant sign to next interpretant sign ad infinitum without ever leaving a finite set of signs. That's not a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A few loose ends - nonions vs. novenions; Galilean vs. Lorentz; surprising continuity

2019-12-12 Thread John F. Sowa
Ben, I agree that space and time in quantum mechanics are continuous.  But there is one issue that Peirce understood very well:  the discrete lines in the spectrum of any chemical element that is heated on earth or in any distant star. In the so-called "black body" radiation, the filament of an

Re: Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] A few loose ends - nonions vs. novenions; Galilean vs. Lorentz; surprising continuity

2019-12-14 Thread John F. Sowa
Helmut,  That is true:  "But an actual  incandescent tungsten wire emits a continuous spectrum? I would say, this is a pseudo- or secondary continuity caused by blending of many discrete photons or frequencies." But Peirce was working on spectra in chemistry and astronomy long before Einstein

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Jeff, Jon, Dan... For the past few months, I have been busy with some critical deadlines and activities that limited my participation in email discussions.  But I'd like to comment on the many possible views of reality. Two points by Peirce: 1. Reality is independent of anything we may think abo

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina, I agree with that point, and I believe that Peirce would too: > we have to consider that some models more accurately represent this external reality than others - and also, Peirce did feel that we could, among the 'community of scholars', over time - reach a more and more accurate repres

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina, When I was talking about model-relative theories of reality, I was definitely *not* advocating a kind of cognitive relativism. > we have to consider that some models more accurately represent this external reality than others - and also, Peirce did feel that we could, among the 'communi

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Logic of Language: A Semiotic Introduction to the Study of Speech

2020-04-16 Thread John F. Sowa
Michael, I very strongly agree with the intro to your forthcoming book.  In 2015, I presented the following slides about natural logic:  http://jfsowa.com/talks/natlog.pdf Since then, I've published a couple of articles on these topics, and I updated and revised some of the points.  I'll say mo

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Logic of Language: A Semiotic Introduction to the Study of Speech

2020-04-16 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina and Michael, I agree with the following point, and I suspect that Peirce and Schelling would also agree. ET> I also like your [Michael's] use of 'objectified idealism' rather than 'objective idealism'. Exactly right. John - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Cli

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-16 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina and Jon, Throughout his life, Peirce maintained a consistent fallibilism.  He insisted that many of the things that we believe are true are indeed true to the extent that they have been tested.  It's even possible that some of them may be absolutely true.  But we can never be certain whet

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-17 Thread John F. Sowa
Auke and Jon AS, I strongly agree with Auke's analysis.  I would also like to comment on the following point: AvB> God or the  conception of god do not deliver valid arguments in semiotics. My interest is systematical not biographical. A biographical analysis can be useful for clarifying what Pe

[PEIRCE-L] The secret life of plants

2020-04-17 Thread John F. Sowa
In some theories of ontology, the focus on scientific principles tends to omit or downgrade the importance of goals, intentions, and feelings.  Such issues are often deprecated as "anthropomorphic".  Other systems, which emphasize neuroscience, downgrade any kind of memory or reasoning that is n

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-17 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, I have no desire to rehash our earlier debates about the following issue: JAS> Accordingly, what I *have *suggested previously is that semeiotic is sufficiently robust to prompt the plausible hypothesis of God as the real and independent object that determines the entire universe as a sign.

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-22 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina, That's an important point: ET >I agree with Gary's comments - however, specifically, I don't see that the 'minute semiotic analysis' is even a semiotic analysis; it's a terminological analysis. Semiosis is a dynamic process and a focus on terms ignores this actuality. The great tra

Re: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-22 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina, Peirce insisted that every theory of science, philosophy, or common sense is fallible.  He maintained that much of what we believe is true to the extent that we have tested it.  But he also maintained that we can never  be certain that any belief is absolutely true. He applied that prin

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-23 Thread John F. Sowa
Auke, I support your decision, for the same reasons I wrote in my response to Edwina: AvB> As a consequence of a suitable dash of indifference on both sides, we didn't get into outright conflict, but we also did not reach agreement on the goal, and thus also not about the means in reaching it.

[PEIRCE-L] Peirce was a fallibilist, not a foundationalist.

2020-04-23 Thread John F. Sowa
I just wanted to add a few comments about Peirce's positions on related issues, but I don't want to get into a quotation war. First point, he said that science "walks on a bog," not "bedrock."   "Indeed, out of a contrite fallibilism, combined with a high faith in the reality of knowledge, and

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-24 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary, As I said before, I believe that JAS has been trying to force Peirce's writings into a rigid box.  Peirce repeatedly said that his ideas were constantly growing.  In fact, that is why he was unable to finish his many book projects:  as he starts writing, he gets so many new ideas that earl

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-25 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary, That sentence up to the comma is my primary objection to Jon's writings.  As for the substance, my second objection is Jon's claim that his conclusion is what Peirce intended: GR> Your arguments *contra* Jon Alan Schmidt have been consistently methodological, not at all substantive. Jon ha

Re: [PEIRCE-L] an observation

2020-04-26 Thread John F. Sowa
x27;s slides linked below are a good example> of> this, translating some of Peirce's ideas into the concepts and terminology> of modern logic. Why is such an approach acceptable for him> in a conference presentation, but not for me in an e-mail list discussion?> Again, *why the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] an observation

2020-04-26 Thread John F. Sowa
Jerry, I was not talking about translating natural languages.  I was talking about translating one mathematical or logical notation to another.  The question whether two mathematical structures are isomorphic (have precise one-to-one translations to and from each other) is determined by a formal

Re: [PEIRCE-L] an observation

2020-04-26 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, I have never initiated any criticisms of your notes.  But I do respond to criticisms that you initiate of my notes or of notes by other authors who I believe are on the right track. JAS> the allegations against me, which instead are grounded entirely in transparently uncharitable interpretat

[PEIRCE-L] Mathematics is not vague (was "an observation"

2020-04-27 Thread John F. Sowa
Jerry, The short quotation from that book showed that the author  is a mathematician.  There is no way that she would disagree with my point. JFS> I am certain that the issues in that book you cited are unrelated to what I was doing. JLRC>  To draw a conclusion without reading the proposition

Re: [PEIRCE-L] tree-structure

2020-04-27 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, List I'd like to point out that sometimes I agree with one of Jon's notes.   I believe that Peirce's three "universes of discourse" constitute the best resolution of the debates between Plato and Aristotle:  the universe of pure possibilities (mathematics); the universe of actuality (everyt

Re: [PEIRCE-L] tree-structure

2020-04-27 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, De Morgan introduced the term 'universe of discourse', and Peirce adopted it for his three universes.  Every logician since then, both Platonists and non-Platonists, have related logic to whatever they call a universe of discourse in  the same way as Peirce.  They all use an existential qua

Re: [PEIRCE-L] tree-structure

2020-04-28 Thread John F. Sowa
Jerry LRC and Gary R, The point I'm making is true of every branch of experimental science and engineering practice.  That includes chemistry, which is the first branch that Peirce studied in detail. JFS> Whenever logicians talk about anything x that exists in any universe of discourse, they wr

Re: [PEIRCE-L] tree-structure

2020-04-29 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon and Robert, This issue illustrates an important point about Peirce's development.  His ideas were constantly "growing" (Peirce's own word), and he kept revising his terminology as he continued to find new ways of relating his ideas to one another and to the common vocabulary of his day (muc

Re: [PEIRCE-L] tree-structure

2020-04-30 Thread John F. Sowa
Auke and Jon, Peirce developed his semeiotic as a tool for analyzing the many kinds of signs and their use in science and everyday life. Unfortunately, Peirce did not provide enough examples to clarify exactly how his terminology could be applied in all the many variations. The following excerpt

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Interpretants

2020-04-30 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina, I strongly agree.  And as I wrote in the thread "Tree structure", I believe that the best way to analyze and explain the issues is to illustrate them with actual examples.  He used more examples in his lectures and letters to actual people.  But his MSS to himself had very few examples t

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-04-30 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon AS, Gary F, and Auke, Jon's recent note shows a serious failure in communication: JAS> To be honest, none of this [a quotation by Auke] makes much sense to me, which is not to say that it is incorrect--again, I suspect that it simply reflects my different  purpose, different standpoint, and

Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-05-02 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina, Gary F, Jon AS, ET> My question about 'pure theorizing' so to speak, also arises from the quote  below: "Now the whole process of development among the community of students of those formulations by abstractive observation and reasoning of the truths which must hold good of all signs u

Re: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-05-03 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina and Jon, Induction always begins with data -- a set of observations about some subject.  By finding analogies and commonalities among the observations, it derives a probable hypothesis about the subject matter.  Further testing is necessary to increase the probability and generalize the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Ethics of terminology (was Different Semeiotic Analyses

2020-05-03 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary R and Jon AS, Peirce's ethics of terminology is important.  But he made an important distinction:  If an author's term is adopted and used by other authors, then the person who coined that term has an obligation to continue using it in the same sense in which it is being used.  But if nobod

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Ethics of terminology

2020-05-03 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina and Mary L, I agree with the points that both of you have made. ET> It is extremely difficult to come to a final conclusion about which meaning is 'right'. For an essay or book about Peirce, it's important to discuss his original terminology and not claim that any of the 21st c. terms ar

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-05-03 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, When Peirce called a theory 'fallible, he did not mean "free to make adjustments".  There is a huge difference between "free to apply to new areas" and "free to adjust (i.e. change) the theory itself"',  The first (new applications) is "normal science" in Kuhn's terms.  But the second is a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories and Modes of Being (was Essay about categories and logical presuppositions)

2020-05-07 Thread John F. Sowa
Robert and Jon, As a mathematician, I appreciate the power of category theory.  But I also spent 30 years working on reseach & development proejcts at IBM, where I had to present many mathematical issues in ways that engineers could appreciate. That gives me quite a bit of sympathy for Jon's rea

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories and Modes of Being (was Essay about categories and logical presuppositions)

2020-05-08 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, Peirce was using the word 'category' in rhe tradition from Aristotle to Kant.  That tradition is still alive and well in philosophy. It's unfortunate that the 20th c mathematicians used the same term for a different kind of mathematical theory.  But as Robert M. hass been saying, it's possi

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories and Speculative Grammar Revisited (was Essay about categories and logical presuppositions)

2020-05-12 Thread John F. Sowa
Edwina, I strongly agree with that point: ET> Helmut - your own experiences in 'the real world' are what you  should be trying to understand - semiosically. Abstract theories are useless, unless they can be applied to something useful.  Chess and Go, for example, are mathematical theories w

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Peirce-L Forum principle of a "generosity of attitude."

2020-05-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary, That is the most anti-Peircean statement imaginable: GR> It would once again appear that Edwina and John expect everyone to have always and only the same interests as they do. Edwina, for example, characterizes anything else, notably, theorizing, as "an irrelevant exercise" undertaken on

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Peirce-L Forum principle of a "generosity of attitude."

2020-05-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon , On the following point, we agree.  And since Gary R takes your side in all these issues, I wish you would tell him to accept it. JAS> I find it extremely inappropriate to make sweeping judgments about who is (or is not) capable of understanding Peirce's writings and discussing them intell

[PEIRCE-L] Charity (was Categories and...

2020-05-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, Charity is an important virtue in dealing with people. What made me angry is Gary R's attitude that he is an authority who is capable of making blanket judgments about the accuracy of anybody else's arguments.  He has the right to point out what he belives are mistakes, but he has an oblig

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Charity (was Categories and...

2020-05-13 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, The principle of charity in philosophy does *not* require the listener/reader to assume that the statements by the speaker/author are true.  Its only requirement is to assume that other participants in the discussion are rational human beings who are making meaningful statements, which the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Charity (was Categories and...

2020-05-14 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, Michael, Edwina, Robert M, and Gary R, Peirce's range of interests, talents, and research was so broad that there is no single best method for studying and interpreting his writings.  For different aspects of his work, some methods are better than others.   But even for those areas where

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Charity (was Categories and...

2020-05-14 Thread John F. Sowa
Jon, et al. I just want to emphasize one point:  It's extremely rare for anybody to approve or be satisfied with anybody else's summary or paraphrase of what they said or wrote.  If it's highly favorable, they probably won't complain.  But even then, they realize that the paraphrase is not what

Re: Please Stop (was Re: [PEIRCE-L] Charity (was Categories and...)

2020-05-15 Thread John F. Sowa
Mike, MB> Please stop. Excellent advice.   I stated all the issues in my previous note, and I have no desire to continue. MB> Despite Gary R telling me offline to resign from the list, I will continue to monitor. I am curious to see if the human animal has the capacity to learn and g

Re: Please Stop (was Re: [PEIRCE-L] Charity (was Categories and...)

2020-05-15 Thread John F. Sowa
Gary R, As Mike said, please stop. GR>To be perfectly clear, in my estimation this horrible 'harangue' began about a year ago, shortly after John Sowa joined the list and began harassing Jon Alan Schmidt, not on any substance of any of his post, but on his methodology. Thank you for providing m

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Constellation of formal languages and the logic of time (was Charity

2020-05-16 Thread John F. Sowa
Michael, I strongly agree: MCJM> What we should be doing IMO is not so much "agreeing to differ" as leaving our ideas on the table for continued evaluation (at everybody's leisure). If we don't want to agree do we have to say more than "I shall think about it" or even just stay momentarily sil

[PEIRCE-L] Methodology (was To put an end to the false debate...

2020-05-16 Thread John F. Sowa
Robert and Auke, I agree with the points you made.  But I believe that a good way to put an end to the "false debate" is to broaden the dichotomy to an open-ended diversity.  Every branch of the sciences (i.e., every branch in Peirce's 1903 classification) has methods that are specialized for the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Methodology (was To put an end to the false debate...

2020-05-18 Thread John F. Sowa
Auke, The point I was trying make:  Either/Or debates are a waste of time. There is an open-ended number of different ways of perceiving, thinking, talking, reasoning, and acting.  In the abstract, there is no reason to debate whether method M175 is better or worse than method M837926. AB> I

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Parts of Propositions (was qualisigns)

2020-05-18 Thread John F. Sowa
Jerry and Jon, In mathematics -- including mathematical logic -- the notation is absolutely precise.  Two different notations that are isomorphic (one-to-one mappings in both directions) have identical semantics, independent of any words used to describe them. JLRC> I suggest that CSP was cons

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [Peirce-L] To put an end to the false debate on the classification of signs

2020-05-19 Thread John F. Sowa
Robert M, Gary F, Jon AS, List For quotations by Peirce on these issues, see the attached file, science.txt. Also note the last quotation by Edward Moore: ECM> Peirce has left us, not any kind of final word, but a work in progress, one eminently worth carrying on, in the spirit of the one who

[PEIRCE-L] Forgot attachment (was To put an end to the false debate...

2020-05-19 Thread John F. Sowa
Original Message Subject:  Re: [Peirce-L] To put an end to the false debate on the classification of signs From: "John F. Sowa" Date:Tue, May 19, 2020 10:05 To: "Peirce-L" Robert M, Gary

[PEIRCE-L] Destinate Interpretant and Predestinate Opinion

2020-05-20 Thread John F. Sowa
Robert, Your summary of the issues is very good, and I strongly agree with the need for examples. In a search for examples, I went back to _Photometric Researches_, which I believe is essential for understanding the development of Peirce's philosophy.  It's not an accident that it was publishe

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