Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

[Ilya Zverev]

Believing that not mapping power lines on OSM would stop people from damaging 
them is the same as believing removing a path from the map would stop people 
from walking on it.

It is not our job to police people. Any knowledge can be used to hurt. But the 
alternative to mapping is not knowing, and that I believe is worse.

Ilya

On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, at 05:03, john whelan wrote:
> Apparently you can do a lot of expensive damage by firing a rifle bullet 
> through them as happened more than once in the US and given the situation in 
> Europe at the moment is there a risk that something similar could happen 
> there?
> 
> Should we have a process that says some things should not be mapped?
> 
> I seem to recall that the location of the pipeline that supplies aviation 
> fuel to airports is considered an official secret in the UK. 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks John
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards 2020 are cancelled

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I regret to announce that the OSM Awards this year have been cancelled. This 
was a hard decision, given that so many people did amazing things for 
OpenStreetMap past year. I have explored several possibilities at keeping the 
event, but in the end decided against it.

Thank you everyone for submitting nominees to the OSM Awards website! There are 
so many people who represent communities, develop software, improve our map, 
and teach people to use and contribute to OpenStreetMap. I feel that many if 
not all of you deserve a nomination — and that’s one of the reasons for 
cancellation.

The awards in the current form are not representative of people in the 
community and their commitment. We are missing many who have been featured in 
WeeklyOSM, in the Image of the Week, on the OSM Blog and praised in mailing 
lists and chat rooms. We need to find a better way of collecting nominees that 
leaves out as few contributors as possible — and that’s what I’ll be planning 
for the next year.

See you at the OpenStreetMap Awards 2021!

Stay safe,
Ilya
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards 2020: calling for nominees

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

Once again, it is time to round up everybody who has done anything good 
for the map and for the community, and honour their work with an award. 
We are preparing the fifth installment of the OSM Awards: please help us 
build a long list of nominees.


http://awards.osmz.ru

As always, please sumbit people and projects you have noticed to the
website. Do not choose between who to mention and who isn't "worthy":
this is a call for a long list, which will be shortened later by a
closed voting. You can nominate yourself. You can nominate a friend.
Please do. The only limitation is that the person or a project must have
done something public after the 1st of July 2019. A link would be great.

We haven't changed anything since the last time: only people for the six 
categories, and only teams, either communities or businesses, for the 
"team" category.


The call for nominees ends on 10th of May. Which does not mean you can 
postpone and eventually forget about the call. Please read the next 
WeeklyOSM with the idea of nominating people in mind. Look at tools you 
use and blogs you read. While saying thanks to a neighbouring mapper, 
consider nominating them. By doing that, you validate their efforts and 
make their year a little brighter. We all need that.


Please nominate: http://awards.osmz.ru

Ilya

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[OSM-talk] State of the Map Baltics 2020: two weeks reminder

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi all,

Reminding you that there is a big conference coming up: the State of the 
Map Baltics 2020 in Riga, Latvia. How big? Well, half a thousand 
attendees have already registered. It's time for you to buy a flight and 
meet us and other GIS enthusiasts and professionals on 6th of March:


https://2020.sotm-baltics.org/

Why so big? Well, it's just a part of a bigger conference: Baltic GIT is 
not related to version control systems, but to geospatial technologies. 
Think of it as a partly local FOSS4G, only with less focus on open 
source. And it's free!


We've got Allan Mustard of OSMF, Stefan Gustafsson of ESA, Tomas 
Straupis, Kirill Bondarenko, Danil Kirsanov, Evgen Bodunov, Rihards 
Olups and dozens of other speakers and OSM members. Do visit, and let's 
enjoy Riga together!


See you there,
Ilya

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[OSM-talk] State of the Map Baltics 2020

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

Hard to believe, but the conference that we had once in 2013, has got 
its second coming! Announcing the perfect event for these living in 
Eastern Europe, or who can afford flying AirBaltic:


State of the Map Baltics 2020 will take place in Riga, Latvia, on 6th of 
March 2020. It will be a part of a bigger event, Baltic GIT Conference 
(no relation to the version management system).


We would be delighted to see you as a participant or, even better, to 
have you on the stage. Please register at:


http://2020.sotm-baltics.org/

The language is English, the sea and beaches are near, and the weather 
should be fine. Once again, that is a great chance to meet mappers from 
the less represented countries, but without travelling to the far edge 
of Africa.


More news to follow — and see you there!

Ilya

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[OSM-talk] FOSDEM 2020: Call for Papers

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

You might be familiar with FOSDEM, the biggest European open source conference. 
It is an event not to miss: dozens of simultaneous tracks, thousands of 
developers, no corporate distractions, absolutely free and open, like it should 
be. And this year it will again feature a Geospatial track.

I invite you to submit a talk proposal for the track. Share what you did in the 
past year: with OSM, with open source, with technology. Anything would do — 
even if it does not include programming, like writing docs, mapping or 
organising a community.

Submit your talk here:
https://penta.fosdem.org/submission/FOSDEM20 
 

See more info in the official announcement of the Geospatial track:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/dutch/2019-October/001773.html 
 

The deadline is Sunday, 1st of December 23:59 (CET, I suppose). You need no 
registration to attend the conference (on 1-2 February). Please come: I would 
be happy to meet you there.

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[OSM-talk] Regional mapping practices study — please fill

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

For the next local SotM conference, which will be in Kosovo in two weeks, I 
chose a topic on regional mapping specifics. Like, how practices in Europe 
differ from States’ mapping, or how mappers in Russia and Belarus tag things 
differently.

I would like your help: to make the talk more specific, I’d like to have a big 
picture of regional differences. And since that might include things not 
documented in the wiki, I have made a questionnaire.

Please fill this form: https://forms.gle/66spMaTWuerGxxUY6 


Your answer won’t perish in depths of academic research papers: I plan at least 
to publish all the answers, anonymised. At most — to write a follow-up 
highlighting regional differences.

Feel free to answer as verbose or as briefly as you like.

Thank you,
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards 2019: The Voting is Open!

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

It is again time to learn about people who did great in the project, and 
to give them your votes — on OpenStreetMap Awards page! OSM Awards is 
all about showing active members of the community that their work is 
seen and respected. Please head to the awards website and choose 
nominees you think are worthy of the award.


All you have to do is to click some checkboxes against their names, and 
press the "Vote" button. You can mark as many nominees as you like, even 
all of them.


http://awards.osmz.ru/

The voting ends in less than a month, so please do not postpone visiting 
the website — spend a minute right now. Please vote and see you at the 
State of the Map!


Ilya

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Re: [OSM-talk] We're erasing our history in wiki

[Ilya Zverev]

Frederik, thanks for expressing your point of view. I always admire your posts 
and occasionally translate them for the Russian audience. I know I cannot 
change your (or anybody’s) view, but I hope in time I can explain you mine.

Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I'm tired of this gatekeeper nonsense. Your "OSM must grow up" talk at
> SOTM in Aizu-Wakamatsu was full of examples where you personally would
> like OSM to change direction (or perhaps, start moving in a direction of
> your choice), and others didn't, and you framed all this as "stagnation"
> like you're doing here, again.
No, I was talking about the imminent change that is already happening, whether 
you want it or not. The community becomes more mature — with different speed in 
different countries, but still. OSM is a map for businesses now, and with your 
anti-commerce rhetoric you actually helped make that change.
> Someone has made a decision to do something (delete a wiki page), you
> don't like it, and somehow you manage to accuse the spirit that led to
> the decision of being responsible for stagnation.
No, I was responding particularly to a reply that implied that if I found a 
convoluted way to dig into the history and was lucky enough to find an archived 
page on some third-party site, that means everything is great and we don’t need 
to do anything, let alone start a “hype” on mailing lists.
> In the next minute, when you suggest that something should be introduced
> and someone else says "not so fast, let's think of the negative effects
> first" you'll accuse them of being responsible for stagnation.
Because time and time again, in OSM and in the real world in Russia I see that 
phrase as a means to stop ideas and any action. We need to think more about 
positive effects. OpenStreetMap is sturdy enough — thanks to your work as well 
— so we can try doing wrong actions and burn money on silly things. Without 
mistakes there is no progress — and we’ve built an impressive and reliable 
system of preventing any mistakes.
> It's just not credible any more, coming from you. All those evil gate
> keepers you're seeing everywhere, holding OSM back from realising its
> full potential, the old guard of secret power brokers that stands in the
> way of greatness, blah blah blah. It's just cheap rhetorics to give your
> personal vision more weight.
Yeah, okay. Not like we have people on the Board who have served for 7+ years 
with OSM 14 years old. Not like we don’t have any server admins that have 
worked on the project less than 12 years ago and any contingency plan for when 
they get tired. I see that everything in OpenStreetMap, from code to tagging to 
using the data is governed not by policies, but by a will of a few people — and 
prove me wrong. I keep the same rhetorics for years, because nothing has 
changed in years.
> Make your statement, say what you like or dislike, just like everyone
> else, without resorting to "SEE, THIS IS WHY THERE IS NO PROGRESS"
> at every opportunity.
What do you like and dislike in the current state of OpenStreetMap?

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] We're erasing our history in wiki

[Ilya Zverev]

Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

> Please note that by using "vandalism" you claim that this action was 
> malicious.
> Unless you have really, really good reason to claim that whoever did it was 
> deliberately
> doing this to damage OSM the please avoid such claims.
Well, if you don’t intend your action as malicious, that doesn’t always mean it 
isn’t.

I am sorry for using strong words, but please understand me. I was digging way 
back into OpenStreetMap project history to get a complete picture of some 
event. And then I find out some pages removed completely — with no way for me 
to restore them using website functionality. Yes, there is a Wayback Machine, 
but you should not have to use it on a wiki, which is made to store the entire 
edit history. This disappearance of historic pages, along with active 
wiki-editors that are happy to place the {{d}} template on any page they don’t 
like (I’ve seen these and removed some of the templates), prompted me to write 
a post here.

I’d like you to share the view that only only the recent tagging and recent 
data in OSM are important, but the history is of value as well.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] We're erasing our history in wiki

[Ilya Zverev]

It’s history.

Why do we keep buildings and roads in the OSM database, that were demolished 
years ago? They are still there, versions 1 and 2, deleted by an active mapper. 
Why do we keep mailing lists archives from 2004? To argue with points made by 
people that left the project a decade ago?

You haven’t even looked at the archived version of that page. The latest 
revision clearly shows that the testing has ended. That is more than enough: no 
need to delete it so that nobody except a wiki admin could read it.

Ilya

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 13:29, Ed Loach  wrote:
> 
> Of course, being a wiki, it isn't actually deleted, just marked as deleted. 
> But looking at it now I can't see why we'd still want it in the wiki, asking 
> people to use possibly no longer existent api end points to test software 
> that long since has been tested.
> 
> Ed
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk] We're erasing our history in wiki

[Ilya Zverev]

This attitude: “to do well we would need people responsible and there isn’t 
any; you can do your thing without OSM infrastructure so why bother; nobody 
died, stop your hype and comply” — is why we’re still with API 0.6 ten years 
after it was introduced.

Ilya

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 09:35, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 12:03:40AM +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> In my research of API 0.6 (which turned ten years old yesterday) I've
>> stumbled on this page:
>> 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6/Crowd_sourced_Testing
>> 
>> It was deleted 7 years ago. And this is a disaster. The page was an
>> important milestone in our history: authors, dates, items on it could bring
>> some more information on how our current API was rolled out. Nothing is
>> left.
> 
> It was deleted an yet you have found it. So not a huge desaster after
> all.
> 
>> Please, could we have a deletion policy in our wiki that clearly states "No
>> obsolete pages here", forbidding deletion of anything except spam or
>> otherwise harmful pages? Deleting our history is plain vandalism, no better
>> than physically destroying pieces of human history displayed in museums.
> 
> Isn't that a bit of hype here...
> 
>> It's not like we're pressed for disk space there.
> 
> No, we aren't. But we are pressed for time and human attention. Of we
> had curators who keep important things organized and findable we could
> keep things forever. But as it is, all the obsolete crap keeps us from
> finding and working with what we need now.
> 
>> Thank internet gods for the Internet Archive,
> 
> Not the gods but some good people who had a good idea. Let them do their
> job and keep the history and lets do our job and keep the momentum in
> the project instead of spending our time looking back.
> 
> Jochen
> -- 
> Jochen Topf  joc...@remote.org  https://www.jochentopf.com/  +49-351-31778688


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[OSM-talk] We're erasing our history in wiki

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

In my research of API 0.6 (which turned ten years old yesterday) I've 
stumbled on this page:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6/Crowd_sourced_Testing

It was deleted 7 years ago. And this is a disaster. The page was an 
important milestone in our history: authors, dates, items on it could 
bring some more information on how our current API was rolled out. 
Nothing is left.


Please, could we have a deletion policy in our wiki that clearly states 
"No obsolete pages here", forbidding deletion of anything except spam or 
otherwise harmful pages? Deleting our history is plain vandalism, no 
better than physically destroying pieces of human history displayed in 
museums.


It's not like we're pressed for disk space there.

Thank internet gods for the Internet Archive,
Ilya

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards 2019 Call for Nominees is open!

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

'Tis that time of the year: only a week until SotM Call for Papers 
closes, and time to think not only of your talk, but to remember 
everybody who has inspired you over the past year. We are preparing the 
next installment of the OSM Awards: please help us collect a long list 
of people worth honouring.


http://awards.osmz.ru

As always, please sumbit people and projects you have noticed to the 
website. Do not choose between who to mention and who isn't "worthy": 
this is a call for a long list, which will be shortened later by a 
closed voting. You can nominate yourself. You can nominate a friend. 
Please do. The only limitation is that the person or a project must have 
done something public after the 1st of June 2018. Basically, in the past 
year. A link would be great.


This year, there are some changes:

* Gone are the three regional categories. Sorry. On the other hand, I'm 
happy to notice people from less represented countries being very active 
in the community, and receiving awards in the general categories.


* Now only people are accepted to the six main categories. One or a 
pair, real names or OSM nicknames: not teams and not companies. Please 
google authors of the software you'd like to nominate (though if you 
insist, we can do it ourselves).


* Teams, groups and companies go to a separate category: Team 
Archievement Award. SotM organizing teams, Esri and like, JOSM 
developers and groups like that, all go here. If you want to nominate a 
single leader or a developer, consider other categories. If you want to 
nominate a vague group of people who did something great, this is the 
category.


The call for nominees ends in July. Which does not mean you can postpone 
and eventually forget about the call. Please read the next WeeklyOSM 
with the idea of nominating people in mind. Look at tools you use and 
blogs you read. While saying thanks to a neighbouring mapper, consider 
nominating them. By doing that, you validate their efforts and make 
their year a little brighter. We all need that.


Please nominate: http://awards.osmz.ru

And if you have time, please contribute to the website translations:

https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-awards/dashboard/


Ilya

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[OSM-talk] A source for mapping New York City never more than two days old

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

Since last August I work at Juno, a ride-sharing service operating in New York 
City only, and recently I found out we have something to share with the 
OpenStreetMap community. We took all our GPX traces received from drivers and 
published these on a tile layer under an open license. Now, instead of one 
wobbly track a day on a standard GPS layer, NYC mappers can enable Juno GPS 
layer with tens of thousands of tracks — and that is not even the greatest part.

No data on our GPS layer is older than two days. If you see a line over a 
closed part of a road, you can be sure a taxi driver rode over it very 
recently. No leftover mess from 2009, and no puzzling over which is right, a 
satellite imagery or a gpx track. Sure, it is only for New York, but with this 
geodata source, we aim to inspire employees of other companies to do the same. 
Our map is called street map, so why not have the best, most recent street map 
of all?

Of course, one cannot expect from mappers to validate the whole big city daily, 
so we have other internal means of map validation. But for a source, this one 
should serve as a definitive proof for everything street-related. I hope this 
might show you a glipse at a future of OSM mapping sources: when you trace not 
a years-old imagery, but a series of super-fresh thematic layers.

And no, we don’t plan to do any automated mapping using this layer. New York is 
mapped nearly perfectly: just one out of thousand taxi rides encounters some 
minor error, like a wrong turn restriction. I just hope other companies could 
provide such validation for other cities they operate in.

See the announcement in the diary: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Zverik/diary/47986 

And explore our GPS traces yourself: https://gps-tile.junolab.net/ 


Have a nice mapping time,
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[Talk-us] Fixing road network in New York — MapRoulette challenge #2

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

First, thank you for completing the last road graph challenge! The number of 
daily matching errors is twice as low, with almost no important breaks. I 
re-run the next million traces against the validator, and the total number of 
errors for these is 4.6k — compared to 12k before the challenge was published.

I have made the second challenge — with the same parameters there were only 50 
tasks (instead of 260 last time), so I lowered the filtering threshold to get 
93. It’s likely some of them are false-positives. But thanks to Jason’s idea, 
now you can verify each error with OSRM and Mapillary, links to which are 
included in instructions. Please help completing it:

https://maproulette.org/mr3/challenge/3625 


We’re close to fixing most, if not all, oneway-related errors in NYC. Next week 
we (Juno) are launching in New Jersey, so hopefully in a month I’ll be back 
with a challenge for that state. Or even earlier, if the number of errors is 
higher that we expect.

Andy, you are not quite correct about the source of these road errors. Almost 
all have been indeed sitting there for years, unnoticed. When there is a 
changeset introducing errors, we notice and fix it the next morning, since the 
same validator used for making this challenge is run every night here.

If you are curious, this is a page we got from the validator today:

http://osmz.ru/gv-result-190213.html 

Thanks and have fun editing the map,
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[Talk-us] Fixing road network in New York — MapRoulette challenge

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I work in Juno, an uber-like company operating in New York City only. We use 
OpenStreetMap data for many things internally, including tolls and map 
matching. And I thought I might use the data we have to help the project.

Yesterday I took ~1 mln rides we made in December and matched them to the OSM 
road network. With that I found a few hundred points where an actual trace 
diverged from the matched one quite often. This usually means a oneway tag is 
wrong, or a turn restriction is incomplete.

The result is this MapRoulette challenge: 
https://maproulette.org/mr3/challenge/3570 


If you know conditional restrictions and how to use Mapillary and other source 
to cross-check data, please help us fix errors in the NYC map. I assume you 
know how MapRoulette works, and there is a short description in the sidebar.

There will be more news to follow. I talked about this at a FOSDEM last week, 
so you might find the recording interesting: https://youtu.be/QR4P3p8eKho 


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Re: [OSM-talk] admin_level=2 overlaps (was: Re: OSMF silently sides with Russia?)

[Ilya Zverev]

After I sent the message, I’ve read in the wiki about this part of 
Serbian-Croatian border:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/45.7313/18.9257

Parts to the left of the river are controlled by Croatia, parts to the right — 
by Serbia, but administrative relations do not reflect that.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF silently sides with Russia?

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

Adding some constructive data to the discussion, I’ve run a query to find 
disputed territories that are mapped in violation to the 2013 agreement — like 
Crimea was before this week.

There are only 20 overlaps of admin_level=2 polygons (has been in Spring 2018, 
I haven’t updated the database lately). Of these, only three are notable:

* Ukraine vs Russia (44800 km², resolved)
* Argentina vs Chile (1507 km², ice shelf with no inhabitants, status unknown)
* Sudan vs South Sudan (23150 km²)

The latter may considered a violation. There are few disputed territories:

* Kafia Kingi is controlled by Sudan, but mapped as part of both administrative 
boundaries.
* Abyei is a special area that can be considered a part of both countries. Its 
inhabitants have both citizenships.
* Town of Heglig is controlled by Sudan and mapped as Sudan-exclusive.
* I see no overlaps on other disputed territories.

To conclude, if we remove Kafia Kingi from the South Sudan relation, there will 
be no notable violations to the 2013 agreement on our map — though only by 
means of having one country overlap another.

See the list for yourself: https://pastebin.com/MAH6YX5s

We may have an issue with some partially recognized countries, like Abkhazia, 
which are still mapped as parts of other countries, despite not being 
controlled by them.

Ilya
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[OSM-talk] FOSDEM 2019: Geospatial Devroom - Call for Participation

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

Let me remind you that there is an annual open-source conference in Brussels, 
FOSDEM, which is the largest and most fun of all. Thousands of OS enthusiasts 
road around a dozen buildings in ULB, share their passion and enjoy waffles and 
coffee. People come from many countries, mostly Europe though.

As always, there will be a Geospatial devroom. I have made talks there since 
2016, and plan to submit one for the next year. I invite you to come to 
Brussels and join me in celebrating open source, drinking various liquids and 
discussing all things geospatial. Submit a presentation and book a ticket!

Conference website: https://fosdem.org/2019/
Geospatial devroom announcement: 
https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2018q4/002793.html

Below is a copy of the most of the announcement:

FOSDEM is a free and non-commercial event bringing together about 8000 
developers in Brussels, Belgium.

The goal is to provide open source software developers and communities a place 
to meet and share thoughts. The participation is free of charge, although 
donations are welcome.

The next edition will take place on 2 - 3 February 2019. For the fifth time 
there will be a Geospatial devroom and it will be happening on Sunday 
*3/2/2019* from 9.00-17.00!

Geospatial technologies and mapping used to be specialist work, but nowadays 
location (awareness) and maps are becoming part of many 
products/projects/applications, which usually use only a small subset of the 
possibilities the data and software offer.

The geospatial devroom is the place to talk about open, geo-/spatial related 
data and software and their community and ecosystem. This includes standards 
and tools, e.g. for spatial databases, and online mapping, geospatial services, 
used for collecting, storing, delivering, analysing, and visualizing purposes.


We welcome submissions about:

* Web and desktop GIS applications;

* Collaborative editing / versioning of geodata and metadata;

* Interoperable geospatial web services and specifications;

* Collection of data using sensors / UAVs / satellites;

* Geo-analytic algorithms / libraries;

* Geospatial extensions for classical databases (indexes, operations) and 
dedicated databases;

* Big geospatial data processing, distributed and scalable GIS applications in 
the Cloud;

* Geospatial information and Smart Cities, IoT and 
Automotive/Autonomous-connected vehicles

* Volunteered Geographic information - Crowdsourced geodata - OpenStreetMap



HOW TO SUBMIT YOUR PROPOSAL FOR A TALK

Are you thrilled to present your work to other open source developers? Would 
you like to run a discussion? Any other ideas? Please submit your proposal at: 
https://penta.fosdem.org/submission/FOSDEM19 


Make sure to select the 'Geospatial devroom' as 'Track'. If you have an account 
from previous years, you should be using the same. Please specify in the notes 
if you prefer for your presentation either a short timeslot (lightning talks 
~10 minutes) or a long timeslot (20 minutes presentation + discussion). 
However, note that time slots are indicative and will be assigned according to 
the timing of the session. The DEADLINE for submissions is Saturday **1st 
December 2018**. Notification of acceptance will be sent to the Authors by 
8/12/2017 at the latest.

Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch with the 
organisers of the devroom via marcvloemans1 at gmail dot com! Want to know what 
FOSDEM geospatial is like? Check out the videos and the presentations of our 
previous editions.

The organizers: Jody Garnett, Anne Ghisla, Martin Hammitzsch, Marc Vloemans

See you there,
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Re: [Talk-us] Food delivery services: Move-fast-and-break-trust

[Ilya Zverev]

Handing out business cards is a great idea, which we in Russia have used 
numerous times. This usually directs a conversation towards mapping and 
its benefit for people, which is always good. You should not hide when 
mapping: educating people about OSM is an important part of surveying.


You can find a few design examples on our wiki:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Business_card

Ilya

22.08.2018 02:20, Clifford Snow пишет:



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:24 PM Ian Dees > wrote:


It'd be great to have smaller, shorter versions that could be handed
out like business cards to handle this case in particular, where
business owners are curious and law enforcement or other interested
parties might express concern.

I picked business cards because people are familiar with them, they are 
easy to carry and not that expensive.


Having information on both sides, which I don't do, would allow us to 
include tips to help owners add info to OSM. Anyone want to take a stab 
at creating one?


--
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us 
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch


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[OSM-talk] OSM Awards 2018 — The voting is closing soon!

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

This year we are for the third time honouring people and organisations in 
OpenStreetMap that made great contributions to the map, the ecosystem and the 
community. OSM Awards is all about showing active members of the community that 
their work is seen and respected. All you have to do is to click some 
checkboxes against their names and titles. Please do that now:

http://awards.osmz.ru/

You can mark as many nominees as you like, even all of them. The voting ends in 
on Friday, so please do not postpone visiting the website — spend a minute 
right now.

Thanks,
Ilya
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards 2018

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

Announcing the third OpenStreetMap Awards! After two successful years with 15 
people or projects awarded and nearly 60 nominated, we continue with the next 
one. Please nominate people and projects for achievements of the past year on 
the Awards website:

http://awards.osmz.ru

This is a community award: nominees and winners are chosen by the community. 
The Awards strive to be a worldwide event for all OpenStreetMap members, 
including developers, mappers, community leaders, blog writers and everyone 
else. We need your help to find the best of OpenStreetMap globally. Please 
notice people mentioned in WeeklyOSM, blogs, your local community, and submit 
them or their projects for the award.

Eligible are projects or other works that were announced after July 1st, 2017, 
except for the Ulf Möller Award, for which everyone is eligible regardless of 
the time when they were active in the project. Winners of past awards and 
selection committee members (in their categories) cannot be nominated.

If you want to be on a selection committee for any of the categories, please 
message me with who and why.

The call for nominees will close on 31th of May, and shortly after that we will 
start the second round, choosing the award recipients via the community voting.

Ilya
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Re: [Talk-us] how can we fix anonymous spam comments

[Ilya Zverev]

To me, anonymous comments to existing notes bear no value. But people are 
divided on that.

See https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1543

Ilya

> 27 февр. 2018 г., в 12:10, Badita Florin  написал(а):
> 
> They are first and foremost putting a load on the database, with no added 
> value.
> 
> This anonymous user is leaving a comment with hundred of 
> 
> 
> You can see an example here https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1257677
> 
>   Virus-free. www.avg.com
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I've seen a lot of tile servers showing how OSM looked in 2006 or 2007. The map 
was an awful spaghetti of broken roads back then, and it looked like half the 
data were lost. So I decided to get a proper API 0.5 planet dump — and since 
the switch happened in late 2017, going back from the current date exactly ten 
years seemed a good choice.

The planet file for 20.02.2008 is slightly over 3 gigabytes, but when you cut 
USA out, you're left with a 400 MB pbf file. Checked out the latest OSM Carto 
3.x style, and voila — OpenStreetMap as it looked exactly ten years ago:

http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html

My server is a bit slow, so be patient. It has the whole world except for the 
United States. I might update it in a few months, so the delta is still ten 
years.

Have fun looking up your cities,
Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Conflator

[Ilya Zverev]

> I wrote up part 1 of my experience with OSM Conflator and the Community 
> Validation tool. This first part focuses on OSM Conflator explaining what it 
> does and the main components of it.
> 
> http://www.mappa-mercia.org/2018/01/osm-conflator.html

Thank you Rob, I enjoyed reading your post. I hope it drives more people to do 
their POI imports with the Conflator.

I have a single comment about "it assumes the third party data is correct and 
more up to date than any OSM data it is replacing". The third party data does 
indeed need to be correct, otherwise we should not import it into OSM. But in 
the profile "master_tags" property you choose a range of attributes that 
override these mapped by OSM members. For example, if you consider postcodes in 
OSM better than in the third party data, you don't add the "addr:postcode" to 
that list.

Also, nodes and areas are almost never moved, never for the initial import. 
Locations from OSM are considered to be the most precise. Of course, with the 
Community Validation tool mappers can adjust some locations to match these from 
a third party dataset.

Ilya
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[OSM-talk] OpenWhateverMap

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I think you'd be happy to know I've revived the OpenWhateverMap, originally by 
Grant Slater:

http://openwhatevermap.xyz/

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoChat

[Ilya Zverev]

Paul wrote:

Is GeoChat  down
or defunct now?  I haven't been able to connect to it in a couple days now.


Sorry Paul, that was caused by forcing https on all OSM servers. Java, 
turns out, does not auto-redirect from http to https. I've just updated 
the URL in the plugin and tested that it works.


Nice to hear somebody uses it :)

Ilya

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Re: [Talk-us] Walmart Import

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for the extended example of opening_hours containing holidays 
exceptions. While validating the Walmart import, I've encountered a couple of 
these, albeit simpler.

My opinion on tags does not have an extra weight in relation to other mappers. 
With the introduction of the "Conflation Audit" website, to which I link, the 
data owner does not dictate which tags to overwrite as well. By participating 
in validation, you choose which tags to keep and which to override, and where 
to place imported points.

For example, when seeing "24/7; Dec 25 off" on a Walmart, I clicked on that 
line, so it doesn't get overwritten on import. The line becomes highlighted, 
which means that's what will be in OSM after the import. See for an example 
this object:

http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/4404

Sorry I didn't get to answer earlier,
Ilya

> 22 дек. 2017 г., в 10:46, Peter Dobratz <pe...@dobratz.us> написал(а):
> 
> Ilya,
> 
> I'm trying to wrap my head around how making this a "frictionless series of 
> imports" is going to work.  So if a local mapper edits details on a Walmart, 
> those details could potentially be swiftly overwritten with your data?
> 
> As you can see, the opening hours for next week are non-standard due to the 
> Christmas holiday.  What if someone decides they want to add that level of 
> detail to the opening_hours tag:
> opening_hours=00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00; Dec 24 5:00-18:00; Dec 25 off; Dec 26 
> 06:00-24:00
> 
> How long until you automatically replace this with "05:00-01:00" ?
> 
> Do you see the problem with doing that?
> 
> As you say there are differences of opinion in how things are tagged.  Why 
> does your opinion get to have more weight?
> 
> Peter
> 
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Thank you for suggestions.
> 
> First, the highlighted tag value is what goes into OSM. In your case, the 
> import will keep the shop=department_store.
> 
> Regarding updates to opening_hours, you are suggesting I parse each 
> opening_hours value and then compare these? It would be quite hard and in my 
> opinion excessive. With the two values being equivalent, I don't how the data 
> becomes worse. A few times I omitted "Mo-Su", I was being told it's better to 
> specify the weekdays, so it is again a matter of opinion.
> 
> In your example, you override the definition for Monday, so it doesn't 
> demonstrate anything besides how complex the opening_hours notation is.
> 
> The rest I answered in imports@, and some of it goes against what other 
> community members suggest, so again I can conclude that is a matter of 
> opinion and not important one way or another:
> 
> * URL is provided by Walmart and is much better than what we have. /whats-new 
> can be fixed later, and does not really matter, because it still takes to a 
> store page.
> * addr:full is provided by Walmart and may be used to improve addressing 
> where there are no addr:* tags. Sorry the importing script cannot do 
> conditional tagging.
> * operator was recommended by community members, and is a good tag to filter 
> all Walmarts.
> * ref:walmart will be used for updating the data. Ref may refer not only to a 
> store, but to a building or another feature.
> 
> Please understand that this is not a one-off handcrafted import. We are 
> working on a process for frictionless series of imports, with regular updates 
> later on. I understand you have mapped a Walmart and feel protective of it. I 
> felt the same a few years into OSM, because everything you add to the map is 
> important. With this import, I believe it does not make the data worse. More 
> attributes is not bad, even if some of these are redundant. The main thing 
> is, until now there were zero mappers who care about keeping all the Walmart 
> stores in OSM up-to-date, and after, there will be more. To me, that is a 
> good thing.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ilya
> 
> 
> > 21 дек. 2017 г., в 1:22, Peter Dobratz <pe...@dobratz.us> написал(а):
> >
> > Ilya,
> >
> > Here's a Walmart that's been built in the last few years I recently added 
> > to OSM:
> >
> > http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/5935
> >
> > What's currently in OSM represents my own mapping style, but I think it's 
> > worth discussing the differences before you change them across the whole 
> > country.
> >
> >
> > If I read this correctly, you are planning on changing the top-level tag 
> > from shop=department_store to shop=supermarket.  I have been using 
> > shop=supermarket only for Walmarts branded as "Walmart Neighborhood Market" 
> > and usin

[OSM-talk] Subway Routing in Maps.Me

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

You might have noticed an unusually high attention to public transport mapping 
in OpenStreetMap recently. There was a validator, a big proposal that got 
rejected, and another one that isn't yet. You might have seen subway route 
relations in your city edited, to better conform to the PTv2 schema. Why? What 
was all that for?

Last week we have published MAPS.ME 8.0 for Android and iOS. If you plan a 
route in one of 74 cities, it will suggest using a subway or a light rail 
network. That includes London, Paris, Berlin, Milan, Moscow, Yokohama, Dubai, 
Lima and many others. What I'd like to highlight, is that zero GTFS feeds were 
used for that. All the data comes from OpenStreetMap.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Zverik/diary/43020

This is without doubt the first time somebody has used public transport 
relations from OSM for routing, considering the state of these relations three 
months ago. I see the development of the public transport schemas being tied to 
just rendering, and maybe this would make them better. Who knows, maybe in a 
year even overground routes in OSM could be used for anything other than 
highlighting roads.

I'd like to thank you for discussing the proposal and mapping, and to ask you 
for help mapping the rest of the cities. Especially the United States and asian 
countries. I am willing to explain anything that is unclear, possibly improving 
the Metro Mapping page.

Thanks,
Ilya
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Re: [Talk-lv] Route relations on latvian roads

[Ilya Zverev]

Just tested the recent map with Maps.me, road shields look consistent and great 
now. Thanks Richards!

Ilya

> 21 дек. 2017 г., в 3:26, Rihards <ric...@nakts.net> написал(а):
> 
> On 2017.12.21. 00:41, Rihards wrote:
>> On 2017.07.11. 19:32, Rihards wrote:
>>> On 2017.07.11. 18:54, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>> 
>>>> I have been investigating the strange case with road shield in maps.me. In 
>>>> Latvia they are duplicated in different colors:
>>>> 
>>>> http://not.textual.ru/zverik/2/4/latvian-shields.jpg
>>>> 
>>>> Turns out, in route relations for roads you use network=lv:national for 
>>>> both A and P roads and network=lv:regional for V roads. But in 
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Latvia#M.C4.93r.C4.B7i P 
>>>> roads are called regional and V are local. So basically A and P roads are 
>>>> indistinguishable by their network tag, which strips it of meaning.
>>>> 
>>>> Should I disable parsing road relations for Latvia, or is it possible to 
>>>> fix this issue by retagging all the relations or inventing a new network 
>>>> value for A roads?
>>> 
>>> thanks a lot for spotting this. does not look right - A & P should not
>>> be at the same level.
>>> 
>>> we should probably change P to lv:regional and V to lv:local
>>> 
>>> opinions ?
>> 
>> looks like we haven't had any objections for 5 months, i started looking
>> into this change. discovered some V roads marked as network:national -
>> this won't be a trivial automated edit, will need a bit more manual
>> attention. still in progress.
> 
> this is completed now. verification would be appreciated.
> 
> Ilya, does this resolve the issue with the relation parsing ?
> 
>>>> Ilya-- 
>>> Rihards-- 
>> Rihards
> -- 
> Rihards


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Website Data

[Ilya Zverev]

Again, with sarcasm.

Frederik and Tom, please explain what has been wrong with the last import, and 
why osm_conflate + cf_audit tools used for it (conflation + community 
validation) still do not attain the required quality for OSM contributions?

How would you build a process for importing large batches of business chains? 
Can I improve something in my tools, or should I build something better from 
scratch?

Or do you think the map does not need imports and that every shop and amenity 
will be mapped without them before they are out of business?

Ilya

> 21 дек. 2017 г., в 10:20, Frederik Ramm  написал(а):
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 19.12.2017 16:20, Tom Hughes wrote:
>> Which is exactly what everybody said about OSM when it started - that it
>> couldn't possibly work and there'd never be enough people.
>> Pretty sure we proved them wrong.
> 
> Perhaps that's what people mean when they say "OSM has to grow up" -
> that we need to finally replace our youthful enthusiasm with a more
> resigned "the grown-ups were right after all" attitude.
> 
> Luckily, SEO companies are here to help, to enable even more people to
> "engage with brands" through our map. Win-win!
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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[Talk-us] Walmart Import

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

As some of you know, Brandify company wants to import all the Walmart 
locations in the US into OpenStreetMap. They have full permission to do 
that. See the message from their VP Product, Damian, for more detailed 
explanation:


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017-December/005279.html

After a brief discussion on the imports@ list, they made a few proposed 
changes, and I re-uploaded the result to my imports validation website. 
Could you please look through a couple dozen points, to ensure they will 
be added to correct locations with correct tags? The more the better — I 
plan to to a few hundred myself:


http://audit.osmz.ru/project/walmart

I really hope we can finish this before the New Year.

Thanks,
Ilya

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I have just uploaded the fuel stations:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/54785385

Thank you everyone who participated. I noticed there has been many "fixme" tags 
filled during the validation. You can see them all using Overpass API:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tUW

Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Website Data

[Ilya Zverev]

18.12.2017 19:14, Frederik Ramm пишет:

Hi,

On 12/18/2017 03:09 PM, SK53 wrote:

Personally, I'd also be chary of turning OSM into a repository of
scraped data rather than one of surveyed geodata.


And more: the more imports you do, the more OpenStreetMap becomes an IT
project where computer nerds script, collect, convert, conflate, and
interpolate away, instead of a project where all sorts of people from
all walks of life contribute their knowledge.

I think we're not an IT project, and that's good.


We are partly an IT project, which you cannot take away. Also, the 
number and size of imports does not affect how OSM is perceived.


For example, OSMers map very few POIs (relatively), and after they do, 
they update virtually zero of them. Not counting a few active mappers in 
UK and Germany.


To think that you can import everything is to overstate the quantity of 
open data in the world. Open data is mostly points of interest. In some 
countries it's also roads. And that's all. OSM is so much bigger than that.


As for importing POIs, I think that needs to be done, because no mapper 
group would be able to map all fuel station, all Tesco shops, or all 
museums. And if they do, in ten years, but that time half of what 
they've collected will be obsolete. The choice is not between manual 
mapping and importing, it's between importing and not having the data ever.


And since there isn't open data on everything, even if you import all 
POIs you can possibly have in machine-readable format, that will still 
be at most 10% of all POIs, even in UK or Germany. Plenty to map by 
going outside.


So even an army of IT folks armed with data scrapers and contracts with 
every data aggregator would be no match to common mappers, armed with a 
pen and a camera. I fail to see what you're afraid of.


Ilya


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

I've just pushed a big update to the auditing service. You can now re-check 
skipped objects. But the "skipped" flag is only stored since today. If you 
want, Brian, I can reset your validation history for the entire project, so you 
could re-check all stations.

Also I can grant you admin rights when you have a osm_conflate json file ready 
to be validated.

We are just 130 stations away from the import being fully checked: 
http://audit.osmz.ru/project/shell

Rob, I agree that the amenity=fuel tag should go on a territory, not on 
individual objects. That would be in line with other amenity values: school, 
university, parking, place_of_worship etc.

Robert, when you find a phone on an amenity=fuel object, you use it to call not 
a fuel pump and not a building. Amenity=fuel marks not a physical object, it is 
an abstract entity called "fuel station", with pumps, service roads, buildings 
and shops. Thus, all the extra properties, like phone or website, should go 
along the amenity=fuel tag, and not be placed on elements of its infrastructure.

When you map a fuel station with a node, it does not matter where exactly it is 
placed. The point is, when a driver plots a route to a fuel station, they 
should get to the entrance of it, and the rest does not matter. Mapping a 
station as a polygon places the virtual station point anywhere inside that 
polygon — but that, again, does not matter in practical use.

Ilya

> 8 дек. 2017 г., в 18:43, Brian Prangle <bpran...@gmail.com> написал(а):
> 
> Hi Ilya
> 
> Great tool but it would be nice to be able to be able togo back to items you 
> skipped
> 
> Regards
> 
> Brian
> 
> On 29 November 2017 at 14:49, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote:
> Hi Phil,
> 
> I had a few free hours today, so I added the table view:
> 
> http://audit.osmz.ru/table/shell
> 
> Though I'm not sure a fuel station cannot close at 16:00 — for example, a 
> small one that serves agricultural needs.
> 
> Ilya
> 
> > 26 нояб. 2017 г., в 17:52, Philip Barnes <p...@trigpoint.me.uk> написал(а):
> >
> > On Sun, 2017-11-26 at 16:46 +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> >> Hi Rob, thanks for looking at the website.
> >>
> >> Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. That is a working tool for validating
> >> an import. Please open http://audit.osmz.ru/project/shell , click
> >> "Validate the import" and check at least a hundred points. You can
> >> move a point when it's off, and you can choose which tags go on an
> >> object.
> >>
> >> If you remember writing me about some of the fuel stations, please
> >> find these on the "browse points" screen, click "edit this" and put
> >> changes there.
> >>
> >> I'll plan to do the import when at least a half of the points have
> >> been looked at — depending on a speed. I will check a few hundred
> >> myself, but me being not in UK, I doubt it would help increase the
> >> quality.
> >>
> > Would it be possible to display this import in a table form, a line for
> > each object and a column for each tag?
> >
> > This would make obvious errors easier to spot, one example I found was
> > a closing time of 16:00 which is an obvious error that does not need
> > local knowledge.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Phil (trigpoint)
> >
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[Talk-GB] Validating the Shell Fuel Stations import

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

The validation had been going pretty well, with more than 800 points checked 
and 360 double-checked. Could you please visit the website for the import and 
validate the final 200 points?

http://audit.osmz.ru/project/shell

I'd like to proceed with the import, with suggested changes, by the end of the 
week — but I of course won't until all points have been checked at least once.

Thanks,
Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Streak: edit the map every day

[Ilya Zverev]

Frederik wrote:
> I'm sure that before too long, you will receive many emails by people who 
> offer all kinds of excuses for not having edited on one particular day and 
> who beg you to allow them to make up for it without breaking their "streak" ;)

Actually the website should accept a changeset from the day before, in case you 
missed it, but received a task by email or telegram. But it haven't been 
tested: I don't want to risk my streak :)

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Streak: edit the map every day

[Ilya Zverev]

I think I have fixed the error. Sorry that you have started using the service 
with seeing this.

Ilya

> 5 дек. 2017 г., в 3:26, Stefan Keller <sfkel...@gmail.com> написал(а):
> 
> 2017-12-03 23:31 GMT+01:00 James <james2...@gmail.com>:
>> Good idea, is it normal you get a
>> "Error connecting to OSM API"?
> 
> +1 but I'm getting this error too.
> 
> :Stefan
> 
> 2017-12-03 23:31 GMT+01:00 James <james2...@gmail.com>:
>> Good idea, is it normal you get a
>> "Error connecting to OSM API"?
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 3, 2017 5:22 PM, "Ilya Zverev" <i...@zverev.info> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow, that is an awesome project! I envy you students for having such
>>> unusual OSM activities :) And thanks to you, now I know about the backrest=*
>>> tag. Everyone here could benefit from it.
>>> 
>>> Can you write a blog post about the PoliMappers' Adventures? Maybe it
>>> could get published on blog.osm.org — CWG would decide that.
>>> 
>>> Also, I'd format the wiki page to have the current quest in big letters at
>>> the top, maybe with a picture. That way people returning to it won't have to
>>> scroll down to find the next quest. You don't need any software for this
>>> adventure.
>>> 
>>> The OSM Streak project is a bit different: it is automatic, and it doesn't
>>> make you learn much. The goal was to have a five-minute task for a day, so
>>> you don't have to plan your mapping. Just start an editor, click around for
>>> a minute, upload. Otherwise you'd get tired after a month or two.
>>> 
>>> The source code is published on github:
>>> https://github.com/Zverik/osmstreak
>>> 
>>> Ilya
>>> 
>>> 04.12.2017 00:46, Michał Brzozowski пишет:
>>>> 
>>>> Incidentally, that's what I envisioned, as well as did Polimappers [1].
>>>> Great minds think alike - all in a short period ;) But unlike me you
>>>> actually delivered, with software to support it.
>>>> 
>>>> I planned to have 30 or more challenges in some succession, not limited
>>>> to mapping, but also showing the OSM ecosystem (like mapper communication,
>>>> notes/change inspection/QA). So basically creating a competent mapper with
>>>> "learning by doing".
>>>> 
>>>> Is the source available somewhere?
>>>> 
>>>> Michał
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PoliMappers/Adventures
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info
>>>> <mailto:i...@zverev.info>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>Hi,
>>>> 
>>>>I am Ilya and I have been uploading changesets 15 days in a row. Not
>>>>because I'm so into it or somebody makes me: I've made a tool that
>>>>reminds me to do it. In a year I expect my HDYC activity chart to be
>>>>completely filled. And you can have the same too.
>>>> 
>>>>Introducing OSM Streak: a website that gives you points for
>>>>submitting changesets each day:
>>>> 
>>>>http://streak.osmz.ru/
>>>> 
>>>>You get 1 point for the first changeset, and then you get more: for
>>>>example, I will receive 4 points for my next changeset tomorrow. And
>>>>that is not all: it gives you a random task each day, so you don't
>>>>stare at the map trying to come up with an idea. For completing a
>>>>task, you get an extra point. And when you map many days in a row,
>>>>you gain levels, which open more tasks.
>>>> 
>>>>Forgetting to visit a website is expectable, so OSM Streak is also a
>>>>Telegram bot (find the link on the "Connect" page). With the bot,
>>>>you can forget about the website: it accepts changesets and sends
>>>>you tasks every day. Alternatively, you can subscribe to e-mail
>>>>notifications, which will be sent on 1:00 UTC.
>>>> 
>>>>All the tasks and the website and the bot can (and should!) be
>>>>translated into your language. We have English and Russian, and I
>>>>would be very grateful for more translations:
>>>> 
>>>>https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/
>>>><https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/>
>>>> 
>>>>Have a truly mappy new year,
>>>>Ilya
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Streak: edit the map every day

[Ilya Zverev]

Wow, that is an awesome project! I envy you students for having such 
unusual OSM activities :) And thanks to you, now I know about the 
backrest=* tag. Everyone here could benefit from it.


Can you write a blog post about the PoliMappers' Adventures? Maybe it 
could get published on blog.osm.org — CWG would decide that.


Also, I'd format the wiki page to have the current quest in big letters 
at the top, maybe with a picture. That way people returning to it won't 
have to scroll down to find the next quest. You don't need any software 
for this adventure.


The OSM Streak project is a bit different: it is automatic, and it 
doesn't make you learn much. The goal was to have a five-minute task for 
a day, so you don't have to plan your mapping. Just start an editor, 
click around for a minute, upload. Otherwise you'd get tired after a 
month or two.


The source code is published on github: https://github.com/Zverik/osmstreak

Ilya

04.12.2017 00:46, Michał Brzozowski пишет:
Incidentally, that's what I envisioned, as well as did Polimappers [1]. 
Great minds think alike - all in a short period ;) But unlike me you 
actually delivered, with software to support it.


I planned to have 30 or more challenges in some succession, not limited 
to mapping, but also showing the OSM ecosystem (like mapper 
communication, notes/change inspection/QA). So basically creating a 
competent mapper with "learning by doing".


Is the source available somewhere?

Michał

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PoliMappers/Adventures

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info 
<mailto:i...@zverev.info>> wrote:


Hi,

I am Ilya and I have been uploading changesets 15 days in a row. Not
because I'm so into it or somebody makes me: I've made a tool that
reminds me to do it. In a year I expect my HDYC activity chart to be
completely filled. And you can have the same too.

Introducing OSM Streak: a website that gives you points for
submitting changesets each day:

http://streak.osmz.ru/

You get 1 point for the first changeset, and then you get more: for
example, I will receive 4 points for my next changeset tomorrow. And
that is not all: it gives you a random task each day, so you don't
stare at the map trying to come up with an idea. For completing a
task, you get an extra point. And when you map many days in a row,
you gain levels, which open more tasks.

Forgetting to visit a website is expectable, so OSM Streak is also a
Telegram bot (find the link on the "Connect" page). With the bot,
you can forget about the website: it accepts changesets and sends
you tasks every day. Alternatively, you can subscribe to e-mail
notifications, which will be sent on 1:00 UTC.

All the tasks and the website and the bot can (and should!) be
translated into your language. We have English and Russian, and I
would be very grateful for more translations:

https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/
<https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/>

Have a truly mappy new year,
Ilya

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[OSM-talk] OSM Streak: edit the map every day

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

I am Ilya and I have been uploading changesets 15 days in a row. Not 
because I'm so into it or somebody makes me: I've made a tool that 
reminds me to do it. In a year I expect my HDYC activity chart to be 
completely filled. And you can have the same too.


Introducing OSM Streak: a website that gives you points for submitting 
changesets each day:


http://streak.osmz.ru/

You get 1 point for the first changeset, and then you get more: for 
example, I will receive 4 points for my next changeset tomorrow. And 
that is not all: it gives you a random task each day, so you don't stare 
at the map trying to come up with an idea. For completing a task, you 
get an extra point. And when you map many days in a row, you gain 
levels, which open more tasks.


Forgetting to visit a website is expectable, so OSM Streak is also a 
Telegram bot (find the link on the "Connect" page). With the bot, you 
can forget about the website: it accepts changesets and sends you tasks 
every day. Alternatively, you can subscribe to e-mail notifications, 
which will be sent on 1:00 UTC.


All the tasks and the website and the bot can (and should!) be 
translated into your language. We have English and Russian, and I would 
be very grateful for more translations:


https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/

Have a truly mappy new year,
Ilya

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi Phil,

I had a few free hours today, so I added the table view:

http://audit.osmz.ru/table/shell

Though I'm not sure a fuel station cannot close at 16:00 — for example, a small 
one that serves agricultural needs.

Ilya

> 26 нояб. 2017 г., в 17:52, Philip Barnes <p...@trigpoint.me.uk> написал(а):
> 
> On Sun, 2017-11-26 at 16:46 +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> Hi Rob, thanks for looking at the website.
>> 
>> Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. That is a working tool for validating
>> an import. Please open http://audit.osmz.ru/project/shell , click
>> "Validate the import" and check at least a hundred points. You can
>> move a point when it's off, and you can choose which tags go on an
>> object.
>> 
>> If you remember writing me about some of the fuel stations, please
>> find these on the "browse points" screen, click "edit this" and put
>> changes there.
>> 
>> I'll plan to do the import when at least a half of the points have
>> been looked at — depending on a speed. I will check a few hundred
>> myself, but me being not in UK, I doubt it would help increase the
>> quality.
>> 
> Would it be possible to display this import in a table form, a line for
> each object and a column for each tag?
> 
> This would make obvious errors easier to spot, one example I found was
> a closing time of 16:00 which is an obvious error that does not need
> local knowledge.
> 
> Thanks 
> Phil (trigpoint)
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi Rob, thanks for looking at the website.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. That is a working tool for validating an import. 
Please open http://audit.osmz.ru/project/shell , click "Validate the import" 
and check at least a hundred points. You can move a point when it's off, and 
you can choose which tags go on an object.

If you remember writing me about some of the fuel stations, please find these 
on the "browse points" screen, click "edit this" and put changes there.

I'll plan to do the import when at least a half of the points have been looked 
at — depending on a speed. I will check a few hundred myself, but me being not 
in UK, I doubt it would help increase the quality.

Ilya

> 26 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:45, Rob Nickerson  
> написал(а):
> 
> Hi Ilya,
> 
> I had a quick test on mobile (not ideal) and like what I see.
> 
> When does import occur? Automatically when you get two matches or manually 
> every X weeks?
> 
> Have you received any further feedback?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
> P.s. I don't have a problem with the navads ref being added. 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

I recall we had some issues with the Shell import. I have nearly finished my 
auditing tool, which helps record every issue with an import and apply it to 
the actual importing process. After testing it on a few local imports, I invite 
you to check the tool out and validate some fuel stations:

http://audit.osmz.ru/project/shell

The tutorial is not yet ready, but the interface should be quite simple. You 
can move the marker on nearly half of the stations to a better position, if you 
want. For tags, both old and new values are displayed, and you can click on 
each to select it for importing. If there is something to be corrected after, 
type a message into the "fixme" field to find it later.

After validating, press the big green "Good" (or "Record changes") button to 
send the result to the server. Two "Bad" buttons are for marking duplicates or 
absent stations. Please note that the imagery is not quite recent: I've seen a 
couple stations that were built after the imagery was taken. If you're 
undecided on a point, click "Skip".

Each point should be validated by at least two users, and each change requires 
a confirmation by another user. If you think you've made a mistake, you can 
return to the point from the "Browse points" page — click "edit this" after 
selecting a point there.

If you have a region you're most familiar with, draw a bounding box for it in 
your profile (you can draw several):

http://audit.osmz.ru/profile

If you encounter an issue or have suggestions on improving the process, please 
tell me.

Thanks,
Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] Effecting change in OpenStreetMap

[Ilya Zverev]

Christoph Hormann wrote:
>  Oh come on. I've been a mapper since 2010, I've hosted dozens of 
> > events, I've written many articles and tools, some of which you might 
> > have used, I'm on the Board currently, and still my proposals and 
> > pull requests fail again and again, because there is no trust in 
> > OpenStreetMap. There is nothing you can to to build up trust. Your 
> > ideas will never get acceptance, it's just nitpicking and "unwritten 
> > rules" all over. 
> I hope you are aware that with this you deny everyone who has ever voiced 
> critique on any of your proposals and pull requests to have a competent 
> opinion on the topic in question.

I am not speaking about my proposals and pull requests here. I am highlighting 
a bigger issue that I see again and again. There is a core group made of people 
from UK and German-speaking countries, and everyone else. You will never become 
a part of the first group, not by writing software or articles, not by being 
elected anywhere, not by anything. You either have been in OSM in 2006 or not. 
You, Christoph, is not perceived as a part of that group. Which means you get 
to experience "this situation from both sides". Most of us do. Most people from 
the core group don't even see the problem and will deny any claims.

This problem manifests itself in many small ways: one more nitpicking comment 
on your pull request, one more opposing comment on a proposal, one more vote on 
their Board ballot instead of yours. Everything they do is visible all over 
OSM. No matter what you do, it will be visible only in your local community. 
That is what the #craftmapper problem is, not a simple "do not import, go out 
and map". If they become irritated and leave, we will lose everything: servers, 
access to code, representation, organization. I know only one "craftmapper" who 
left — and more and more I am starting to think that was for the worse, 
contrary to mine and everyone else's opinions three years ago.

You can mask the issue by saying "you have to be humble and listen to others 
more and understand there is always somebody who know better", but with that, 
you kill any trace of motivation to effect change in OpenStreetMap. Because 
people who know better will not try new things — they are worried that things 
we already have will break. The whole core services group (people who maintain 
code and servers) have been working in the life-support mode for years. Any 
change should conform to all the current policies of OSM, which virtually say 
"no changes". Any proposal should not contradict any of existing wiki pages, 
especially if existing wiki pages contradict each other.

Trust is allowing other people to touch and possibly break what you love. We 
don't have it in the OSM. OSM is not Wikipedia, we don't have a "be bold" rule. 
As you explain, we have "be humble and listen to others" rule. Feels very 
similar to what women currently are fighting with in the third wave.

> The key to solving this kind of problem is respectful and considerate 
> communication, caring about each other's opinions and reasoning - and above 
> all patience. People are always more likely to accept and support change if 
> they come to realize the need for it themselves, at their own pace.

I am a developer. I should not be expected to learn Psychology 101 to improve 
OpenStreetMap. What are you effectively saying is that you can push changes 
only by being an expert in social studies. If only such experts wrote pull 
requests. What we do need is more management standing between old and new 
developers — but that would imply more spending money on people, and we don't 
want to spend money on people, just on hardware.

> And a rejected idea does not necessarily need to be considered failure. It is 
> an opportunity to talk to the people who have rejected it, re-evaluating your 
> assumptions and motives and maybe develop a better solution (or let others do 
> that when they recognize the need). I have seen lots of examples where a 
> failed attempt at something created the impulse for a better and successful 
> solution.

I don't care about failure of my proposals and pull requests. I care about OSM 
being an active, maintained, growing, ever-changing project. I believe I will 
see that — but I'd prefer it in 5 years, not in 50.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] What would make MapRoulette better?

[Ilya Zverev]

Martijn van Exel wrote
> For those who have used MapRoulette or at least have a good understanding of 
> what it does: what would be the *one top thing* for you that would make it 
> better? 

Built-in iD editor, to avoid switching contexts.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Ilya Zverev]

john whelan wrote:

No you need to build up trust again and it takes time.  Only then will your
ideas start to gain acceptance.


Oh come on. I've been a mapper since 2010, I've hosted dozens of events, 
I've written many articles and tools, some of which you might have used, 
I'm on the Board currently, and still my proposals and pull requests 
fail again and again, because there is no trust in OpenStreetMap. There 
is nothing you can to to build up trust. Your ideas will never get 
acceptance, it's just nitpicking and "unwritten rules" all over.


Ilya

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

I see that not all questions were resolved in May.

Regarding the license: NavAds are authorized to upload all Shell fuel stations 
to any maps. They are paid to do that. You can find Shell, among others, in 
their partners directory: https://navads.eu/industries/

NavAds have also signed the contract with us, that includes these words (MY.COM 
is our parent company):

--
Supplier grants MY.COM B.V. a worldwide, transferable, irrevocable and 
perpetual right to use, copy, modify, process, compile, archive, incorporate, 
display, distribute and/or use, in any way MY.COM B.V. sees fit at its sole 
discretion, any or all portions of the Supplier Content, distributed to MY.COM 
B.V. through any means, in combination with any products or services developed 
by or for MY.COM B.V..

If any Supplier Content will be provided as dynamic or real-time data through 
an application programming interface (“API”). Supplier grants MY.COM B.V. a 
transferable license to integrate the API within MY.COM B.V.’s internal systems 
in order to enable access to, and use of, the API for the delivery of Supplier 
Content.

...

* By submitting Listings to MY.COM B.V., SUPPLIER grants MY.COM B.V. the right 
to publish, amend, make available to the public the Listings subject to the 
terms and conditions of this Agreement.

* MY.COM provides Navads access to an OSM importing account during the length 
of contract term to upload data to the OSM platform.
--

Regarding the source for coordinates: I do not have that in writing, but during 
one of the calls they explained that they get a list of addresses, then geocode 
them and cross-check using multiple sources, including Google, Bing and OSM, 
and then manually correct each location using various satellite imagery. From 
location accuracy it's pretty obvious that there was more than just geocoding.

Ilya


> 17 нояб. 2017 г., в 11:14, Adam Snape <adam.c.sn...@gmail.com> написал(а):
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 16 November 2017 at 20:19, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote:
> As for the questions about license and location quality, I answered these in 
> May:
> 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-May/020216.html
> 
>  
> Not completely. I'm not convinced that the word of a third party (nothing 
> personal) that another company has been paid by Shell to input their business 
> locations into various online maps necessarily equates to Shell consenting to 
> their data being released under the ODBL. Nor am I satisfied with your 
> (again, nothing personal but as a third-party) assurance that the co-ordinate 
> information "all placed properly on top of the fuel stations" with an "error 
> of less than 10 metres" is "definitely not geo-coded". Somebody able to offer 
> that certain assurance about how data was definitely not acquired should be 
> equally able to explain how it definitely was acquired.
> 
> I apologise if this seems like I am being obtuse but OSM has a long-standing 
> policy of using sources which we are certain are okay for us to use. These 
> are the standards we hold public sector open data releases to.. If this does 
> (as Brian hopes) set a precedent private data releases, it should confrom to 
> the community's existing import standards, not set a precedent of vagueness 
> regarding licencing. I do hope you can clear this up and we can map the 
> locations because there is lots of useful information there. 
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Adam


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

Thank you Brian for pushing this forward. The ongoing discussion (and 
reminders from a NavAds employee) have made me start developing the 
auditing tool for imported data. Hopefully next week I'll give you all a 
link where you can check every imported object one by one, and alter the 
data.


Harry's visualisation was merged into my map. Alas, colours there do not 
work as you think they do: blue means modified existing objects, green — 
new nodes to be added to OSM. Tracking the progress with the 
visualization would be complicated, since we don't have any means to 
store your verdicts on each point.


As for the questions about license and location quality, I answered 
these in May:


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-May/020216.html

Robert, I don't have official branch numbers from Shell. Identifiers 
that are being added in "ref:navads_shell" will be used for updating the 
data, to skip the matching step.


Thanks,
Ilya

16.11.2017 20:34, Brian Prangle пишет:

This is something that could be done officially by the UK OSM chapter

On 16 November 2017 at 13:05, Lester Caine > wrote:


On 16/11/17 12:48, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>> Here's a strawman to start the discussion:
>>
>> Use Harry Wood's improved visualisation as a progress checker, with a 
colour
>> change for  missing filling stations to red
>> Get active mappers to add/amend data around their localities or journeys
>> Change marker colour for filling stations that are "complete" with Shell
>> data where it is correct to green
>> Watch the map turn green as we make progress
> That sounds good to me. The one issue I have with the import though is
> the reference numbers being proposed. As I think someone already noted
> in the previous discussion, these seem to belong to the third-party
> rather than being an official branch number assigned by Shell.

Anybody asked Spar if we can use THEIR list of 1054 forecourts to add
even more detail to this. Certainly many Shell and BP forecourts are
owned and run by Spar and not Shell or BP ...

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact

L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

First, thanks everyone for checking the import. I've made some improvements 
regarding addresses, and I removed the "operator" tag. You can see the 
improvements on the same map. I'd like to join Richard in a search for a review 
tool, which would allow people from UK to participate.

Seeing that there are possibly ~2% of wrong postcodes, should they be removed 
from the import? Is there a database that I can check these against?

Andy, thanks for the explanations regarding the Markham Vale.

Brian, thanks for supporting this.

Frederik,
> It may be true that existing high requirements are partly responsible
> for bad imports being attempted, but I do not concur that this means we
> should lower our standards so more imports can pass. To me, this is like
> saying "let's get rid of speed limits, then nobody will be speeding any
> more". It is true but not desirable.

That is not the reason not to fix things. I live and Russia and have seen many 
issues with speed limits: 60 kph on 12-lane highways being the most common 
example. This is fixed not by ignoring the issue and appealing to extremes, but 
by changing the limit or the road. For now it seems that the better an import 
is described, the more people understand it, the harder it is to please 
everyone. Obfuscating it, e.g. presenting a raw json and a few Shell stations 
with better tagging in my case, looks to be the more productive option — and 
it's okay if in three years somebody finds a few wrong tags. (Not that I'd do 
it, of course.)

Philip, the shell.co.uk website gives the same opening hours for the Branting 
Hill station as the source dataset. Basically, everything in the dataset is the 
same, except for locations, which have been improved by the Navads team.

Ilya

> 3 нояб. 2017 г., в 18:35, Philip Barnes <p...@trigpoint.me.uk> написал(а):
> 
> Looking at some of the Shell stations locally
> 
> I would dispute that the operator is most locations is Shell and that
> the brand should be Shell, but they are independent businesses who have
> a franchise to sell Shell fuel, but Shell do not employ the cashier,
> the mechanics or supply what is sold in the shop.
> 
> The opening hours you propose to add to http://www.openstreetmap.org/wa
> y/200523446 is total bobbins.
> 
> Telford Services has two filling stations, separated by an access road.
> 
> Whilst not part of your import, I would be very surprised if Shell
> Porthmadog didn't sell diesel.
> 
> 
> Phil (trigpoint)
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2017-11-03 at 12:55 +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of
>> Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a
>> contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked
>> me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the
>> stations. I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few
>> days.
>> 
>> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
>> 
>> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
>> 
>> And here is a list of changed tag values for existing fuel stations,
>> for your convenience:
>> 
>> https://pastebin.com/KvxiZ9mc
>> 
>> This import will be made from Zverik_imports account and will be
>> described at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports page.
>> 
>> Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Thanks Ed, I have removed overriding streets and postal codes, so at least 
existing correct addresses won't be changed. I've updated the map.

If a majority of addresses in the import are wrong, then I would consider 
removing these tags even from the hundred of new objects.

Ilya

> 3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:51, Ed Loach <edlo...@gmail.com> написал(а):
> 
> I've checked the only one near me, in Clacton, and the address details in 
> OpenStreetMap are correct and the proposed address changes are wrong.
> 
> Ed
> 
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: Ilya Zverev [mailto:i...@zverev.info]
>> Sent: 03 November 2017 09:56
>> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing
>> of Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a
>> contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked
>> me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the
>> stations. I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few
>> days.
>> 
>> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
>> 
>> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
>> 
>> And here is a list of changed tag values for existing fuel stations, for
>> your convenience:
>> 
>> https://pastebin.com/KvxiZ9mc
>> 
>> This import will be made from Zverik_imports account and will be
>> described at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports
>> page.
>> 
>> Ilya
>> ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:21, Andy Townsend <ajt1...@gmail.com> написал(а):
> 
> On 03/11/2017 09:55, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of Shell fuel 
>> stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a contract with Shell for 
>> putting their stations on the map. They asked me to proceed with the import 
>> and sent an updated list of the stations.
> 
> Last time you proposed this it took only a few seconds to identify problems 
> with the data.  It's the same this time - at least some of the changes that 
> your map suggests you're proposing to import 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2917373098 are incorrect (address info in 
> this example).

How is the address info there incorrect? Did you see the correct address of the 
building? Googling shows that amenities there are indeed addressed by Markham 
Lane, just like the Markham Vale, the business centre that contains these. 

> 
> More serious than address vagueries, what evidence do we have that the new 
> stations that you're adding actually exist in the locations you suggest?  
> Last time there were serious problems where e.g. a Shell station in a 
> new-build area was allegedly located in the development office of a building 
> site (presumably the only valid address at the time of construction), not 
> conflated with it's actual mapped-in-osm location.

I have received the list from the Shell UK. Are you suggesting I should buy a 
ticket and verify each of these on the ground? Are there any better sources for 
Shell fuel stations, or are you implying the UK is a special restricted 
no-imports-whatsoever territory?

> 
>> I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few days.
> 
> "a few days" is nowhere near enough time for people to even read this message.

I assumed a week of heated discussions in imports@ and talk-gb@ mailing lists 
in May would be enough, and we won't start with the same arguments.

> 
>> 
>> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
>> 
>> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
> 
> Perhaps you could provide details of what review _you_ have done? Presumably 
> you're getting paid to do this, either directly or indirectly via MAPS.ME's 
> desire to be able to sell advertising based on location.  Why should we do 
> your data validation for you?

Oh for... Of course I'm being paid gigantic piles of money to break your map!

I have explained times and times again: while I do this by a request from 
Navads via Maps.me, and I get my paycheck from Maps.me monthly, that does not 
mean any mean intent for my every edit. If you believe otherwise, please set up 
the autoreverter script (which I open sources for your convenience) on my OSM 
accounts and show me the door.

We don't receive any money from Shell or Navads. We don't have any advertising 
contracts with them. We are merely helping Navads get their data on the map — 
as opposed to their own failed attempts, linked in the past discussions of the 
same subject. I personally believe our map would be better by having more data 
from the original sources: not just amenities mappers were lucky to see on 
their way, but with a comprehensive dataset from the owning company itself.

Do you believe the alternative, that no data belongs to OSM except personally 
surveyed data?

I have made a numerous talks at conferences this year highlighting this and 
other similar issues in OSM, and it saddens me that I have changed nothing.

I see many imports every day going unnoticed, and I see this kind of a harsh 
reaction on proposed imports. It is easy to see why people are reluctant to 
announce their imports and automated edits beforehand. Until we develop a 
polite, predictable and mature way of clearing imports, we will continue seeing 
undiscussed imports and being angry at people who just did not want to be 
yelled at.

Ilya
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[OSM-talk] All the metro systems of the world, continued

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi again,

You know how people introduce proposals with zero tag usages on the map? Well, 
I've been fixing metro systems, and now you cannot say the "Metro Mapping" 
proposal is too abstract. I have reworded a few sections, and improved some, 
thanks to commenters. The "What This Affects" section now has only five items, 
all on point. There are illustrations! I plan to start the voting next week.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Metro_Mapping

The validator is run twice a day, at 5 and 13 UTC. It showed 3 acceptable 
networks a month ago (of 180), now it has 40, with 22 in Europe. Yesterday I 
finally made London Underground network pass. It serves as a good example of a 
properly-mapped metro network, with 270 stations and 25 "type 2" interchanges 
(types are outlined in the proposal). If you're from the UK, the DLR network is 
still mostly unmapped.

http://osmz.ru/subways/

I have been improving the subway processor / validator almost daily. It does 
not simply count the stations and routes. It builds the whole network in 
memory: cities to routes to route variants to route stops (including a stop 
positions projected on tracks) to stop areas to stations. Tracks are taken from 
OSM and extended using stop positions. There are distances between stops by the 
tracks and separate platforms for entering and leaving a train. I am pretty 
proud of the result.

https://github.com/mapsme/subways

Yes, you can use the script to make a GTFS feed for every well-mapped metro 
network in OSM. The only thing you would miss is an exact schedule. My plan is 
to try merging the OSM data with an existing GTFS feed, maybe even for railway 
networks.

Thanks,
Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #379 2017-10-17-2017-10-23

[Ilya Zverev]

Tobias wrote:
> 
> This does not mean that he should be exempt from the rules, of course.
> To the contrary: What I would hope for is consistent enforcement of the
> rules, with gradually increasing penalties. Jumping straight from spotty
> enforcement to a permanent ban, though, seems wasteful and needlessly cruel.


I'd like to point out that in the past two and a half years Verdy p has been 
banned 7 times, one of which was permanent (but was lifted in a week):

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block=User%3AVerdy+p

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #379 2017-10-17-2017-10-23

[Ilya Zverev]

To clarify, I'm on Verdy's side regarding the calendar dispute (not that I 
follow it closely). Third-party developers should improve their wiki parsers, 
not impose restrictions on pages.

But I don't like the introduction of microformats to the calendar template, 
which he made. It made reading and updating the template source harder. See the 
example and discussion:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template_talk:Calendar#What_happened_to_the_template.3F.21

I find it strange that one month Verdy makes the template harder to use for the 
sake of some software, and the next he's complaining because other people do 
the same.

Also, many of his changes are actually good. But the number of edits is so 
high, nobody will verify all of these. This is similar to imports to OSM: 
potentially good, but hard to assess. Imports and automatic edits should be 
discussed — so why not mass wiki edits?

Finally, Verdy has edited so many pages on tagging, he's probably considering 
himself an expert on tagging. And he is appearing in proposal discussions, 
enforcing the "librarian" point of view: that accepted proposals are set in 
stone, that wiki supersedes actual mapping practices. That just looks weird and 
sidetracks discussions.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #379 2017-10-17-2017-10-23

[Ilya Zverev]

I agree.

Verdy p is very hard to work with on the wiki, and his number of edits makes 
his work virtually unverifyable and unrevertable. I assume has has alienated a 
lot of wiki contributors, including few people I know.

Ilya

Andrew Hain wrote:
> It is now time to talk about banning Verdy p from the wiki permanently. His 
> behaviour over the past years makes him a contributor of net negative value. 
> It is exceptionally difficult to correct any mistake that he makes and as a 
> result people have cut down their contributions to the wiki or given up 
> completely. He likes to tell people that they have made mistakes without 
> trying to teach them what he thinks they did wrong and obfuscates changes 
> with mass reformatting. It is often unclear whether he is addressing a 
> problem that actually exists. He often projects his own personality 
> deficiencies onto other people. Even in the current case where there is 
> software that could be made more flexible, he only offers handwaving rather 
> than assistance.


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Re: [OSM-talk] All the subway systems in the world

[Ilya Zverev]

Thanks Frederik, I did exactly that in the "What This Affects" chapter of the 
proposal:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Metro_Mapping#What_This_Affects

Basically it introduces (revives) stop_area_group relations and suggest using 
entrance=* on subway_entrances. Of course I could just silently create it in 
the main namespace and pretend it was there from the start. But when the page 
is announced like a proposal, we get a discussion that helps make it better. I 
have already got many comments that lead to many fixes in the page.

Michael, this is the first time I'm hearing about that light_rail controversy. 
It is documented somewhere? If not, why does it make my proposal worse?

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] All the subway systems in the world

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi Roland. I sense a lot of hostility in your message. This is actually the 
first time in my OSM experience that I see a call to (negative) voting in this 
list. Even weirder that the voting won't start for a week or so.

> Adding more contradictions and confusion in public transport mapping makes a 
> too complex topic worse in terms of complexity.
Awesome: the page that tries to compile all the practices is making it worse 
and too complex. I wonder why nobody else have done it in six years since the 
proposal has been accepted.

> - The proposal conflicts with well-established mapping rules. The tag "layer" 
> is explicitly not to use on railway stations <...>
Ah, I see. I missed your reply at the discussion page from the 5th. Sorry for 
that, I'll update the proposal shortly to reflect this.

> - The proposal conflicts with reality. It requires a tag "colour" on lines, 
> but not all lines have a defined colour. Making colour required may lead 
> mappers to add fictitious information.
To repeat my answer from the discussion page: "official transit systems have 
official maps, which usually have consistent colours. Do you know of an 
exception?"

Also, it's not hard to find an official subway map. You don't have to go 
outside for that.

> - There are already a couple of established mapping instructions, namely 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_Indoor_Tagging
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport
> with details like
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:public_transport%3Dplatform 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStationMap#Level_of_Details
Five pages, 22 screen for four of these and I guess 30 more for OpenRailwayMap. 
I am trying to make a six-screen reference. All the relevant links are still 
there.

> - The author actively avoids discussion: The proposal has been announced much 
> later (2017-09-30) than it was opened (2017-09-23). It has not been announced 
> at all on the relevant mailing list (talk-transit). Even on comments on the 
> wiki discussion page, only part of them have been adressed.
Wait what.
The relevant mailing list for proposals is tagging@, and I announced the page 
on 2017-09-24: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2017-September/033580.html

I did not know about transit@ until you've mentioned it. Is it one of the major 
ones now, so everyone should know about it and be subscribed to it?

"Avoids discussion" — WTF.
The discussion page is 20 kilobytes, plus I answer everything in talk@ and 
tagging@.
The ONLY question not answered on the wiki discussion page is yours. I am sorry 
for that, as I said above, just missed it in the stream of other questions.

> All in all I suggest to retract the proposal and rather write a simple set of 
> instructions based on the existing wiki pages, with the errors in this 
> proposal then fixed.
That is what I did. I will not retract the proposal.

> I still do think that Ilya has good intent, and probably the intent was to 
> have a documentation what maps.me and/or the "validator" recognizes. But 
> making a wiki proposal is the wrong way to do so
Please tell of a correct way to document metro mapping, not through a wiki page.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] All the subway systems in the world

[Ilya Zverev]

Michael Reichert wrote:
> You are aware that the RFC phase has to bee at least two weeks long?

Thanks for reminding that, I indeed think I was too hasty. There are still some 
unresolved questions, like the one about interchanges (see tagging@).

> Why does your validator find lots of errors on the S-Bahn relations in
> Berlin? I don't understand what's wrong with:
> >
>  stop node 1806004219 is not connected to a station in route (relation 14981, 
> "S-Bahnlinie S41: Innenring im Uhrzeigersinn")
> 
> The stop node is on a way referenced by the route relation.

That was a bug in the validator: it did not consider stations with 
railway=halt. I have fixed it just now.

> PS I am working on a Public Transport version 2 validator, too.
> 
> https://github.com/geofabrik/osmi_pubtrans3

Awesome, the more validators the better. I check only metro systems, which are 
harder to map properly than other public transport route types.

alan_gr wrote:
> I'm not clear how it is decided which systems are included and which aren't.
> In Spain, why is Bilbao in while Valencia, Seville, Malaga are out? I can't
> see a difference in how the last three are tagged in OSM compared to Bilbao.

Thanks Alan for pointing out the missing systems. I used a list from a 
wikipedia page, and it didn't include light rail networks. I have found the 
second list, and will add these later.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] All the subway systems in the world

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi again,

I've got some more news regarding the subway validator. It is still 
there, updated just yesterday:


http://osmz.ru/subways/

Now it has all the systems for Europe, Africa and both Americas. I am 
slowly adding asian cities: there are too many of these, sorry. The link 
to the spreadsheet with the target numbers is in the site footer.


Also, I've published the source code:

https://github.com/mapsme/subways

You can find there not only the validator / preprocessor code, but also 
a small script that automatically adds stop_area relations. I've used it 
on all cities in Russia and Belarus, and it worked great. Needs manual 
verification, of course, but saves a lot of time. I have it online, but 
cannot make the link public, for Overpass API will ban it from all of 
your requests :) I can send it to you privately, of course.



Thanks,
Ilya

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing wiki* -> brand:wiki*

[Ilya Zverev]

Exactly. OSM uses the reversed notation:

ref:velobike is a ref for velobike, not velobike for ref.
source:geometry is a source for geometry, not geometry for source.

Wikipedia for brand should also be wikipedia:brand. This way all wikipedia 
links are grouped.

Ilya

> Because it is wikipedia tag for brand, not brand for wikipedia. ("Wikipedia" 
> property of "brand") Like name:en is "English" property of "name", not "name" 
> property of "English". 02.10.2017 11:41, Ilya Zverev пишет: > Hi folks, 
> >
> > One question: why brand:wikipedia and not wikipedia:brand? 
> >
> > Should we now use brand:ref, en:name, maxspeed:source instead of the 
> > regular order? 
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52002801
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52529386
> > etc.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing wiki* -> brand:wiki*

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

One question: why brand:wikipedia and not wikipedia:brand?

Should we now use brand:ref, en:name, maxspeed:source instead of the regular 
order?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52002801
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52529386
etc.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] All the subway systems in the world

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi Daniel,

> Nice to see another unification effort, but I have a specific question: we 
> have an interchange station in Warsaw called "Świętokrzyska". I marked it as 
> one station some time ago in the middle of lines crossing.

> Lately somebody (namely https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/IraSergeeva ) made 
> it two different points in the middle of each line's waiting area:

> - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3390253994 (M1)
> - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5117464830 (M2)

> How do you think it should be tagged properly?

To me, this is a better way of tagging: there is a noticeable transfer time 
between lines on this station, and platforms are different, so mapping the 
station as two shows that better. Of course, you can leave it a single station, 
but in this case, some routers might think there is virtually no time needed to 
change lines.

(Actually it was me who made this edit under Ira's account, while I was showing 
how to prepare subway stations.)

> Plus there is additional error reported about duplication and I'm also unsure 
> what to do with public_transport=stop_position: 

> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3208963714 (M2)

The route https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4232533 the stop_position and 
the station for Świętokrzyska, and the latter is in the incorrect position. The 
same for https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4232534 .

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] All the subway systems in the world

[Ilya Zverev]

My definition of a subway is a network of lines that are marked "subway" on 
official subway maps.

Though validator also processes light rail lines (with obviously similar 
definition).

Ilya

> 30 сент. 2017 г., в 19:59, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> написал(а):
> 
> Silly question but what is your definition of a subway?
> 
> Is it different to commuter rail?
> 
> Thanks John
> 
> On 30 Sep 2017 12:38 pm, "Ilya Zverev" <i...@zverev.info> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have made a script that parses and validates subway systems. It prints the 
> number of subway lines and stations that an automated system can extract from 
> the OpenStreetMap data. See the latest report here (these are updated 
> manually for now):
> 
> http://osmz.ru/subways/
> 
> It is still in beta: it doesn't use networks and omits many non-european 
> cities. We plan to employ it for maps.me, so it would be the first app that 
> does world-wide subway routing using only OSM data. To make tagging subway 
> systems uniform and usable, I've compiled a list of practices on this page:
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Metro_Mapping
> 
> Some questions are answered on the Talk page there. Next week I'll open a 
> voting, so that tagging schema could be made official. The validator of 
> course expects that kind of tagging, though it allows for some omissions.
> 
> Ilya
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[OSM-talk] All the subway systems in the world

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

I have made a script that parses and validates subway systems. It prints the 
number of subway lines and stations that an automated system can extract from 
the OpenStreetMap data. See the latest report here (these are updated manually 
for now):

http://osmz.ru/subways/

It is still in beta: it doesn't use networks and omits many non-european 
cities. We plan to employ it for maps.me, so it would be the first app that 
does world-wide subway routing using only OSM data. To make tagging subway 
systems uniform and usable, I've compiled a list of practices on this page:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Metro_Mapping

Some questions are answered on the Talk page there. Next week I'll open a 
voting, so that tagging schema could be made official. The validator of course 
expects that kind of tagging, though it allows for some omissions.

Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] Bing imagery round Bristol

[Ilya Zverev]

Just so you know, Bristol has got FIVE different satellite imagery 
layers available for tracing. You can compare these at


http://osmz.ru/imagery/#16/51.4523/-2.5961/mb

Though Bing looks the most recent of all, followed by Esri.

Ilya

24.09.2017 11:46, Neil Matthews пишет:

I think Bing imagery round Bristol has been updated (I can see new
Metrobus works) but at it's highest level it has lost the brightness and
clarity I used to enjoy.
A quick check in Bath / London and quality seems as before.

Presume that there's no way of changing any settings/caches to access
the previous set of tiles?

As it happens the ESRI layer is almost as good as the old Bing layer --
gets a bit more pixellated and doesn't zoom in quite as far as the Bing
layer in Josm.
Is there any way to get the ESRI layer to zoom better/more/interpolate
in a smoother manner (in Josm).

Any thoughts appreciated -- I've got several months worth of
house/building surveys to add -- and I'd got used to the stunning
quality of the previous Bing imagery.

Thanks,
Neil


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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Putting simple scripts in the Wiki without violating CC BY-SA 2.0

[Ilya Zverev]

https://gist.github.com would be the better option — it was specifically made 
for short rarely changing scripts. I keep a couple scripts there. Don't forget 
to put the license information in the comments in the script header.

Ilya

> 19 сент. 2017 г., в 20:09, Kathleen Lu  написал(а):
> 
> If I were you, I would put the code into GitHub. It may seem like overkill, 
> but it will make it much easier for others to find your scripts. It's free 
> and there is a setting to generate a license file. 
> 
> The wiki is under a CC-SA license, which is not a good match for code. You 
> could explicitly state another license next to the code (copy and paste the 
> license text onto the wiki page). MIT is compatible but I do not think GPL 
> is. I think Apache is probably compatible but seems like overkill for scripts 
> (it includes a patent license).
> 
> (disclaimer: not legal advice, just my 2 cents)
> 
> Best,
> Kathleen
>  
> 
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:15 PM SwiftFast  wrote:
> I have a bot[1]. I'd like to publish its scripts. A versioning  system
> like GIT would be overkill, because the scripts are short and rarely
> changing.
> 
> I'm not a lawyer, and I have some questions:
> 
> 1. Suppose I don't state any license, would that implicitly the same
> license of the wiki itself?[2]
> 
> 2. Can I explicitly state a license such as MIT/Apache/GPL? Would any
> of those licenses conflict with the license of the Wiki itself?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SwiftFast#SwiftFast_bot
> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki_content_license
> 
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards 2017

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

Yesterday a 500th OSM member has voted at the OSM Awards. And we have just a 
week left for the other 500 to vote. Which means you: go to the...

http://awards.osmz.ru/

...right now, read through the names and descriptions, and choose people you 
think should be awarded something for their work. Because you won't have 
another chance at saying thanks to them this year. Unless you do it directly, 
which is obviously better. Still, show them your support by going to the 
website and voting.

The voting closes on 16th of August. And in a few days, at the social event of 
the State of the Map 2017, the winners will be announced. The blog post will 
follow shortly after that.

Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Osmf-talk] Live OSM discussion in ~45 minutes (7.30pm UK time)

[Ilya Zverev]

On SotM 2016 8 of 45 talks (18%) were given by women. Srravya C in her 
talk at that SotM shows that only 7% posts in talk@ were posted by 
women, and just around 2% — in the tagging@ mailing list. She gives a 
few good ideas about increasing the participation of women, by the way:


http://2016.stateofthemap.org/2016/is-she-a-part-of-your-community/

As a member of the Russian community, I can confirm we have ZERO active 
female members.


Ilya

27.07.2017 03:14, Simon Poole пишет:



On 26.07.2017 23:58, Ilya Zverev wrote:


but these people are a minority in OSM,

Numbers please.

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Re: [Talk-GB] [Osmf-talk] Live OSM discussion in ~45 minutes (7.30pm UK time)

[Ilya Zverev]

I have just went and rewatched the recording of Monica's 11-minute talk. 
While I was dismissive of her arguments four years ago, now I see that 
all of her points were valid, and are still valid. We have done nothing 
wrt diversity in our project. HOT did something, some local communities 
did (e.g. GeoChicas), but OpenStreetMap in general is still white, male 
and disregarding of any external point of view.


The tagging issue Monica raised was more about the proposal process in 
general, and most of us (I hope) have known it to be highly flawed. But 
the case with the childcare was telling: not only voters did not know 
what childcare was, they did not care. Significantly more people in the 
world find childcare facilities and the distinction between childcares, 
kindergartens and whatever more important that swinger clubs and 
brothels, but these people are a minority in OSM, and since we have 
meritocracy slash democracy (none of that actually, but that's often 
heard), that means minorities are not effecting OSM.


Sadly, I have no idea how to fix this. Dave's reply shows we are still a 
long way from being a diverse community where all opinions are heard and 
not dismissed.


Ilya


26.07.2017 23:02, Frederik Ramm пишет:

Hi,

>
... 


* Sadly the talk included the usual drive-by accusations of sexism in
OSM. It said, and I am not making this up: "There has been some work by
Monica Stephens that has discussed how new tag proposals for feminized
or (inaudible) spaces are given less, quote, attention" (this is
referring to a very badly researched 2013 article that essentially
contrsated took low vote outcome on a childcare tagging proposal with
brothels and swinger cluby in OSM to brand OSM sexist), and then went on
"also, one of our interviewees mentioned that she had, quote, heard of
women not being listened to or respected". -- What he's doing here is
quoting an anonymous source that is quoting an anonymous source that
says something about OSM, and that is good enough to make a sexism claim.

The whole talk did, it seems to me, slightly overrate the importance of
tagging discussions (they claimed to have interviewed 15 people but it
is unclear how they selected those 15), and therefore the discussion
that ensued was mostly around the question "how can we make sure that
everyone has a say in tagging discussions".

There seemed to be an underlying assumption that binding votes on
tagging, or at least a well-defined process to standardize and maintain
the global tagging ontology, was necessary (and not least, all those
autocratic editor writes need to submit to the community vote and not
invoke privilege to create presets that others must then follow).

I wouldn't say this has given me any new insights or ideas for the
future, but it is an interesting study in how (relative) outsiders
approach OSM.

I think we as a project really need to publish a more through, and more
visible, takedown on that 2013 Monica Stephens article though. At the
time I thought "oh well, bad research comes and goes, no need to start a
fight every time a researcher writes something wrong about OSM", but
that one seems to be found, believed in, and quoted by other researchers
just too much.

Bye
Frederik




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[Talk-lv] Route relations on latvian roads

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I have been investigating the strange case with road shield in maps.me. In 
Latvia they are duplicated in different colors:

http://not.textual.ru/zverik/2/4/latvian-shields.jpg

Turns out, in route relations for roads you use network=lv:national for both A 
and P roads and network=lv:regional for V roads. But in 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Latvia#M.C4.93r.C4.B7i P roads 
are called regional and V are local. So basically A and P roads are 
indistinguishable by their network tag, which strips it of meaning.

Should I disable parsing road relations for Latvia, or is it possible to fix 
this issue by retagging all the relations or inventing a new network value for 
A roads?

Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Imports] Importing fuel stations in UK and future similar imports

[Ilya Zverev]

Thanks, Richard. The dataset in question definitely was not geocoded, 
but I will inform Navads about possible issues with geocoded datasets.


Ilya

13.05.2017 10:08, Richard Fairhurst пишет:

Ilya Zverev wrote:

I think that would fall into the "fair use" clause.


There is no "fair use" clause in UK copyright law, which is important not
just because OSM is hosted in England & Wales but also because this is
presumably a dataset in part containing materials with an E copyright
holder.

The comparable clause is "fair dealing" and has significantly less scope
than the US "fair use". There may be other aspects of copyright law you
could look at but I wouldn't rely on this one.

Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Re-Imports-Importing-fuel-stations-in-UK-and-future-similar-imports-tp5896663p5896679.html
Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-GB] [Imports] Importing fuel stations in UK and future similar imports

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

First, I was amazed at the response. Thanks for constructive feedback, which I 
answer below, and no thanks for toxic responses, including asking for money 
(what money? We — as in maps.me — get none out of this) and imposing impossible 
restrictions (manually investigate context for each of thousands of points?). 
No import is perfect, and I cannot make this one too good for you. But it is 
pretty okay to me.

I have refined the tag processing script. Removed name tags, changed 
postal_code to addr:postcode and formatted phone numbers according to the 
wikipedia table. "Navads" is appended to the source tag if present. I am not 
sure if I should add the brand:wikidata=Q154950 tag, and for now decided 
against that.

You can see the updated result here: 
http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/ (with 
OpenStreetMap and Satellite layers).

Also I have started the wiki page: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports

* Geocoding and accuracy: as I see on the map, all points in the dataset are 
placed properly on top of the fuel stations. The error based on OSM data is 
mostly inside 10 meters. I will ask NavAds for coordinate source for further 
datasets, but since most points are already in OSM, I think that would fall 
into the "fair use" clause. In this import, only 125 points are added as 
unmatched.

* Other fuel stations inside 50 meters: I have found only one instance where 
the brand was changed. It is here: https://goo.gl/maps/9GLTVg1EWR82 . The 
Street View from 2015 shows the BP station, but the map lists both BP and 
Shell. I assume the fuel station was overtaken in the past two years.

Then I filtered fuel stations with the ref_distance > 30 meters (there are 
eight) and placed them on satellite imagery. Looks like that all of these are 
correct, and the big distances come from placement errors in OSM.

* Official information vs on the ground: five objects have their opening hours 
changed. I assume Shell knows how their fuel stations work. Regarding other 
tags, only phone and addr:postcode replace OSM values (11 and 9 changed); other 
tags, including operator, are preserved. In the Frederik's hypothetical 
example, the number of rooms will be added only if there are no such tag on the 
already existing hotel.

* Freshness: Navads will update the data when Shell provides the update. It is 
as fresh as can be, but your changes to OSM won't be overwritten: if you saw 
opening hours changed, do update these. By the way, Robert's example about 
mismatch between opening hours on the Shell website and in the data is 
incorrect, I checked it and they match.

* Five Ways Roundabout issue: I have forwarded that to NavAds. Also I asked 
them about links to branches (I cannot find any on the Shell website though) 
and names.

* "The general view seems to be against IDs like this": what has happened with 
the principle "any tags you like"? Did we saturate the key space and not 
accepting new keys anymore? Can I read that "general view" documented anywhere? 
The "ref:navads_shell" key is the only one that is not verifiable on the 
ground, and is clearly added so the further updates do not have to rely on 
matching.

Ilya

> 12 мая 2017 г., в 1:22, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> написал(а):
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 05/11/2017 05:39 PM, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> Together with the NavAds company, we plan to import a thousand Shell
>> fuel stations to the United Kingdom. The source is official, which
>> means, Shell company specifically shared the dataset to put them on
>> maps. Do you have any objections or questions?
> 
> There are a couple other "we make your business visible on the map"
> SEO-type businesses active in OSM, some better, some worse.
> 
> Typical problems include:
> 
> * Geocoding. We will want to know how the lat,lon pairs they use for
> import have been generated. Sometimes the "official" source will
> actually be based on measured GPS coordinates (good). Sometimes the
> "official" source has simly geocoded their address with Google or HERE
> (not admissible, license violation). Sometimes they have geocoded their
> address with OpenStreetMap which is also bad because it can reinforce
> errors or imprecisions - for example, if OSM has an address
> interpolation range along a street, and a POI is placed with a specific
> address at the computed interpolation point, then it looks like a
> precise address but isn't.
> 
> * Ignoring the area around the imported information. We want imports to
> match the existing data; automatic conflation is often not enough. A POI
> can end up in a house, a lake, or in the middle of a road, and if that
> is not just a one-off but a systematic problem (of the "let's dump our
> stuff into OSM and the community can the

[OSM-talk] The Top Ten Tasks list

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

Since 2008 we had a https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks 
wiki page which listed things new developers could work on, that would 
improve OSM users experience. Things like OSM bugs (notes) integration, 
an improved history tab and clickable points of interest. The list was 
last updated in 2011.


We at the Engineering Working Group are now working towards updating the 
top ten tasks page, so it reflects needs and wishes of the current 
OpenStreetMap users and mappers. We have some ideas, but we also need 
your help.


You all use the website, the API and other core services daily. And you 
must have things that are bothering you, or that you wish were 
implemented. Please go to https://pads.ccc.de/k4rlFOGIHb and add these 
to the list. Anything can go there: it's a brainstorming, not a final list.


Next Tuesday, when the EWG meets, we will look through the list and 
identify the tasks for the top ten. If you wish to attend, mark the 
time: 
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=EWG+Meeting=20170411T20=1 
and set up Mumble: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mumble . We will 
be happy to hear your thoughts.


Ilya

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[OSM-talk] OSM Conflation Tool

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

I have just finished the conflation script, that would make importing a set of 
points much easier. For example, when you have a GeoJSON of McDonalds' 
restaurants or a website with locations of Carrefour Express shops. It reads or 
downloads OSM data and finds matching objects (including ways and 
multipolygons). Then it adds some tags, adds nodes for unmatched points, and 
produces an osmChange, ready to be uploaded.

Of course, you should not upload anything made with a script right away, there 
are procedures for automated edits.

The script is written in Python 3, and called OSM Conflator. The description 
and instructions are on the wiki: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Conflator

It is published on Github under the Apache 2 license: 
https://github.com/mapsme/osm_conflate

The first local import made with it will be uploaded tomorrow after the ongoing 
discussion in the Russian forum. I'd be happy to see it help anybody else.

Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards - The Voting Has Started

[Ilya Zverev]

Sorry everyone, I've added a confirmation after receiving the votes.

Of course votes are tied to your accounts. Please do not use _import of 
any technical accounts to vote multiple times :)


I've also added a number of total voters at the bottom of the page. It 
is nearing 200!


IZ

07.09.2016 10:58, Oleksiy Muzalyev пишет:

On 07.09.2016 9:40, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


Il giorno 07 set 2016, alle ore 07:29, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
 ha scritto:

but i did not press Submit button again, the second time, as I was afraid that 
it would count my vote twice.


as your vote is tied to your user account it should not be counted several 
times, regardless how many times you send it in.

Cheers,
Martin


I visited this page from another computer (with logging to the OSM). And
my choices were the same, so it seems the vote was recorded on the
server (and not in the browser's local storage). Still a confirmation
message that a vote was actually submitted and registered would not harm
in my opinion.




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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Awards - The Voting Has Started

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

Some of you have submitted nominees for the OSM Awards, and two days ago 
we (as in some members of CWG, SotMWG and the Board) have discussed them 
and compiled a short list: five nominees for each category.


Now the final stage of the OSM Awards begins: please open the website, 
http://awards.osmz.ru , and choose one nominee for each of the six 
categories, who you think has contributed the most and deserves an award 
slightly more than others.


Although it is a hard task: imo all of the shortlisted nominees deserve 
praise. Thank you for what you are doing, please do not stop. And maybe 
even not only shortlisted.


But this is an award, and it should have its winners, so now it is up to 
you who receives the award on the Sunday of the State of the Map. So 
again, go and vote:


http://awards.osmz.ru

You can alter your choice up until the voting closes, by September 22nd.

IZ

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[OSM-talk] The OpenStreetMap Awards - Call for Nominees

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

I'm proud to announce the OpenStreetMap Awards, awarded for the first time this 
September at the State of the Map 2016 conference in Brussels!

This is a community award: nominees and winners are chosen by the community. We 
are now opening the Call for Nominees, to learn more about the amazing 
contributors to OpenStreetMap. The Awards strive to be a worldwide event for 
all OpenStreetMap members, including developers, mappers, community leaders, 
blog writers and everyone else. We need your help to find the best of 
OpenStreetMap globally.

http://awards.osmz.ru/

Add your nominees on the awards website. There are six categories: Core 
Systems, Innovation, Writing, Mapping, Community and the Ulf Möller Memorial 
Award. You can nominate up to ten people, groups or organizations for each 
category. Eligible are projects or works that were announced after August 1st, 
2015, except for the Ulf Möller Award, for which everyone is eligible 
regardless of the time when they were active in the project.

The call for nominees will close August 27th, and shortly after that we will 
start the second round, choosing the award recipients. Please nominate!

IZ
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attributive data enrichment using OSM

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi Stefan, and thanks for writing to this mailing list.

Your case is not much different from geocoding, when you borrow some attributes 
(addresses, or in your case, POI or landuse tags) from OSM and put it into a 
proprietary database. That would clearly make a derived database out of your 
proprietary one, so you would have to provide it under an open license.

Now, if you are not giving any access to the resulting database outside a 
private network, that may be considered not using it publicly, in which case 
the whole license does not apply. Section 4.2 starts with "If You Publicly 
Convey this Database, any Derivative Database, or the Database as part of a 
Collective Database, then You must", so this depends on how non-public your 
system is. I hope somebody else here can elaborate on this.

IZ

> 22 июля 2016 г., в 5:46, Stefan Jäger  написал(а):
> 
> Dear all from legal-talk,
>  
> We have the idea of using OSM data for an enrichment process in order to 
> improve the attributive information of proprietary building footprints.
>  
> Let me briefly explain, what the purpose of using OSM for our enrichment 
> process is.
>  
> We are developing a data product for building footprints  that is based on 
> 3D-building data from the official German surveying authorities (there 16 of 
> them) .
> The license of these data is not open, neither for the original data nor the 
> data product we plan to produce.
>  
> These original data are rather heterogeneous with respect to quality , 
> quality not in the sense of geometrical correctness or completeness but in 
> the sense of building function attributes (residential, official, hospital, 
> etc.).
> Our Idea is to use OSM data in a quality improvement process for the building 
> types, in combination with other processes like analyzing the shape and/or 
> size of buildings.
>  
> An example:
> Suppose we  have a building footprint from our data which has no information 
> on the building type.
> We now take the centroid of that building and analyze the underlying osm area 
> information , which is, let’s say an industrial complex.
> We would then assign the official code, let’s say ‘4711 (industrial)’ to that 
> building.
>  
> Another example:
> Again, suppose we  have a building footprint of our data which has no 
> information on the building type.
> We would than take OSM amenity (point) information and check whether there 
> are many shops (points) inside that building polygon.
> We would then designate the building a shopping mall (provided a certain size 
> criterion derived from the original data source is met) and assign it the 
> code 1234 for shopping mall.
>  
> My question now is: if we enrich our data (with only underlying attributes, 
> no geometry from OSM at all) with such a process using OSM data, is this then 
> a produced work (or a collective database) or would I have to license my 
> enriched data product under the odbl, which I would not be allowed to do, 
> because it would conflict with the license of the main data source?
>  
> The final data product itself is not intended for public use (e.g. on 
> publicly accessible websites) or display, which is forbidden by the original 
> license in the first place.
> It will not have any osm information or reference to osm  entries in the 
> final data product.
>  
> I have read the text here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Horizontal_Layers_-_Guideline
> in particular the last paragraph “Combining OSM data with proprietary data?”
> …
> But what happens in case a legal entity wants to combine OSM data with 
> third-party data? Let's assume the third-party data is proprietary, e.g. a 
> list of restaurants that was bought by the legal person with the right to 
> publicly use it, but of course not publicly release it.
> ….
>  
> Unfortunately this question has not been answered yet.
>  
> Of course I am more than happy with acknowledging OSM as an additional data 
> enrichment source.
>  
> I would also be happy to support the OSM project.
>  
> Most importantly, I need to be on the safe side.
>  
> Thanks for feedback!
>  
> Stefan Jäger
> 
>  
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?

[Ilya Zverev]

Sorry I'm not commenting everything, but just the parts I find important. (See 
below)

> 22 июля 2016 г., в 1:35, Christoph Hormann  написал(а):
> 
> But neither does it become collective.  And if you re-read my last 
> mail - i clearly made the argument based on the license itself that it 
> would be difficult to argue that your modified OSM hotel database with 
> select hotels removed is an independent database because it is 
> specifically intended to be used in combination with another 
> proprietary database and the derivation from the original data (removal 
> of features) only makes sense for use in this combination.  And 
> classification as a collective database requires the individual 
> databases to be independent.

I see you using the words "intended to be used" and "makes sense for use". They 
caught my eye because there was a discussion recently in a russian open data 
initiative group about requirements to state purposes for which open data is 
downloaded, which came to me as absurd. Because if a publisher chooses which 
intentions are right and which are wrong, that means the data is not open.

I was not bringing FUD earlier, I was trying to illustrate the consequences of 
bringing additional non-specific clauses to an open license. For me, your 
mentions of intended use seem like extra restrictions that weren't mentioned 
anywhere before.

> If you do something that violates the guidelines 
> (which i have not said you do) but trust it is OK by the letter of the 
> license (which i have not said it is) then you have to keep in mind 
> that by doing that you communicate that you don't care about the views 
> and the wishes of the community.

Wait that doesn't seem right. You cannot violate guidelines because they are 
examples and explanations, not restrictions or a law. And then, when the 
guidelines say a dataset "may be" considered derivative, it doesn't say it is 
derivative (or otherwise). You cannot violate a text that says "may be", except 
by mathematically proving it is wrong either way.

If I didn't care about the views of the community, I wouldn't continue this 
discussion. I want to either convince you or other people that it's okay to put 
proprietary data on top of the OSM data, or learn the reasons why this leads to 
a derivative database, requiring to open the proprietary part. In the latter 
case we at maps.me, of course, would need to simplify our data processing.

> 
>> Consider a simpler experiment. I remove nodes based on an obscure
>> algorithm. I then publish the rest of the database and a list of
>> removed nodes under an open license. Do I have to open the algorithm?
> 
> You never have to open any algorithms, publishing the methods used is 
> just a possible alternative to publishing the derivative database and 
> it can only be used if this method can be used by anyone to reconstruct 
> the derivative database from the original data (like when you use a 
> random number generator to remove random features).  But if you 
> intermingle ODbL and proprietary data into a derivative database 
> publishing only the algorithm used for that is meaningless since to 
> reproduce the results you need the proprietary data as well.

In the example I don't mention any proprietary data. I may be using a 
proprietary algorithm, using some proprietary number generator, but in the end 
I get these two datasets: the database and a list of what I removed. First you 
are saying I don't need to publish the algorithm, since it's just an 
alternative, but then you start mentioning a need to publish both the algorithm 
and all the third-party data it uses (which it may or may not have used, you 
don't know).

I guess that falls down to the definition of "intermingling". That's the word I 
don't understand in technical sense. Is any intermingling bad, or there is a 
good kind of intermingling? Neither in my example not anywhere else do I make a 
derivative database, as I believe. Does the process of intermingling lead to 
derivative database in any case?

IZ
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?

[Ilya Zverev]

You are starting to derive the licensing terms from intentions, and not the 
actual process or usage. Which basically says, if the community accepts this 
way of judging: however you use our data, if we don't like what you do with it, 
you would have to stop. And that is definitely not a FOSS license, and not only 
maps.me would have to stop using OSM, because there would be a chance that any 
data user might suddenly find out that odbl favours the provider. It's like 
"this data must be used only for good and not evil": while fun, legally 
dangerous.

It seems to me, you are considering the Collective Database Guideline to be the 
law, disregarding the actual ODbL and the words "may be" that follow the 
de-duplication use case. "Endorsed by the Board" is not equal to "Is a part of 
the license". "Primary feature" definition is not a part of ODbL, it was 
introduced to give better understanding of the guideline topic. It defines what 
is a collective database, but does not define the contrary: if a data set is 
not covered by the guideline, it doesn't automatically become derivative.

Consider a simpler experiment. I remove nodes based on an obscure algorithm. I 
then publish the rest of the database and a list of removed nodes under an open 
license. Do I have to open the algorithm?

IZ

> 10 июля 2016 г., в 1:23, Christoph Hormann <chris_horm...@gmx.de> написал(а):
> 
> On Sunday 10 July 2016, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> 
>> Let's consider another use case. An application that shows OSM map,
>> and on top of it shows 1 mln of user points. A users has an option to
>> hide the OSM map underneath proprietary points, with a radius of 1
>> km. Does in that moment when a user clickes the options, the combined
>> map become derivative? Because the application removes parts of OSM
>> map based on proprietary data, which means, by your implications,
>> that that creates an inseparable references.
> 
> I would keep it on the level of combining proprietary data and OSM data 
> for the same feature type because this is what you do and this is also 
> what is best documented in the guidelines and related discussion.
> 
> As i see it you acknowledge that there is such a combination of 
> different data sets but since you have a reverse case in comparison to 
> the examples given in the guidelines they do not apply and you somehow 
> read the license itself to support your use case.
> 
> I think this is an interesting viewpoint although i see little chance of 
> this becoming a widely accepted interpretation.  It depends on the idea 
> that when generating your produced work or publicly using the two data 
> sets in combination you have a Collective Database and no Derivative 
> Database.  This is going to be really hard to argue since you just 
> modified one of the databases you combine for the obvious purpose of 
> using it in combination.  Removing hotel POIs from OSM only makes sense 
> if you use it in combination with your other data set - the 
> de-duplicated OSM part of your alleged Collective Database is therefore 
> clearly not an independent database.
> 
> If you think through this scenario somewhat further it would essentially 
> mean share-alike to be ineffective in de-duplication cases.  Since 
> de-duplication is generally only possible in cases where both data sets 
> have a roughly comparable quality level (though not necessary the same 
> level of completeness) it will hardly ever matter from a practical 
> viewpoint which data set you remove duplicates from.  So if one 
> direction was possible without share-alike the guidelines would 
> essentially be irrelevant because they'd only distinguish between those 
> cases where you have to de-duplicate in one direction and those where 
> you can combine data sets freely without share-alike.
> 
> -- 
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
> 
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?

[Ilya Zverev]

Christoph Hormann wrote:

From my perspective it is as Simon put it:


In summary both guidelines in this use scenario boil down to
prohibiting de-duplication (of any kind).


Now you can of course disagree with that assessment but so far you have
not brought up any convincing argument for that.  Just because your
exact use case is not mentioned in the Horizontal Layers guideline does
not mean it does not apply in analogy.  It does not matter if you use
proprietary data to add features missing in OSM data or if you use OSM
data to add features missing in proprietary data - the license as i
read it is symmetric in that matter.


From my perspective, Simon mentioned the guidelines, argued that they 
refer to the case in maps.me, while they state the reverse case (with 
removing duplicates from OSM), and then finishing with the summary you 
quote. I agree that one of the examples in the Collective Database 
Guidelines does not specify a method of de-deduplication, though, for 
example, prioir text allows for databases to be considered separate when 
"the non-OSM and OSM datasets do not reference each other". And they don't.


As I see it, we have two independent databases. Complying with ODbL 
4.6.b we provide "A file containing all of the alterations made to the 
Database".


Let's consider another use case. An application that shows OSM map, and 
on top of it shows 1 mln of user points. A users has an option to hide 
the OSM map underneath proprietary points, with a radius of 1 km. Does 
in that moment when a user clickes the options, the combined map become 
derivative? Because the application removes parts of OSM map based on 
proprietary data, which means, by your implications, that that creates 
an inseparable references.


Now, let's use in this example not the whole OSM dataset, but only 
hotels from it. And the proprietary data is also hotels. What changes?


IZ

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?

[Ilya Zverev]

Christoph Hormann wrote:

I would also suggest to keep in mind that in principle this is exactly
the kind of case share-alike was created for - the OSM database is
missing some hotels and some other database contains them and the
intention is that you need to make available that other data or the
merger of the two data sets for inclusion in OSM if you want to use
them in combination.

If your use of the booking.com data is not about hotels missing from OSM
but only about the additional info booking.com provides (link to
booking page and other metadata for example) the new collective
database guideline gives you another option: you can match this
metadata with the OSM POIs and use them together without share-alike.
You however must not show any hotels that are not in OSM then or make
their coordinates available under compatible license.


Christoph, please read my last post again: we use all of the booking.com 
data, not just hotels that are missing. We are not altering the 
proprietary data in any way. Just removing some data from OSM, and that 
portion of the data is published, obviously under the ODbL.


IZ

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?

[Ilya Zverev]

Thanks for raising the issue. We at maps.me tried to follow the license: 
basically we are combining the OSM data without certain nodes (see the list of 
ids at http://direct.mapswithme.com/direct/latest/skipped_nodes.lst ) and a 
proprietary data set for hotels. Since we do not use any OSM information, like 
names or coordinates, for these hotels, I assumed the result could be 
considered a collective database.

Now, the matching process does indeed compare coordinates of hotels in both 
datasets, and filters out nodes in the OSM data. The list of nodes is 
published, so anyone can reproduce the open part of the data from a planet 
dump. Again, the proprietary data is in no way affected by the OSM data (it is 
added in its entirety, not a single object is omitted or altered using OSM 
data). So the last item in the guidelines ("all hotels not found in the 
OpenStreetMap data layers") does not apply.

If the LWG decides we are violating the license (and explains how, maybe 
producing another guidelines), we will remove all OSM hotels from our data. But 
for now I don't see how it's different from removing just some of the hotels.

IZ

Andrew Harvey wrote:
> According to [1] if someone combines non-horizontal layers together,
> the results must be shared under the ODBL.
> 
>> From my investigation it appears that the MAPS.ME app [2] is combining
> OSM hotels with non-OSM hotels.
> 
> https://tianjara.net/hosted/maps.me-1.png is a screenshot from the
> app. Hotel A appears in the app,
> but as far as I can tell was never in OSM but rather one of the hotels
> they've added to their app from Booking.com. Hotel B is from OSM.
> 
> This is the area https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.87758/151.20447
> 
> There are other examples of this too like this hotel
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/196622136 which in the app shows up
> next to their supplemented data like this
> https://tianjara.net/hosted/maps.me-2.png
> 
> Am I correct that in order to be complaint with the license MAPS.ME
> either need to make this data available under the ODBL or remove all
> OSM hotels from their app?
> 
> [1] 
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Community_Guidelines/Horizontal_Map_Layers_-_Guideline#Examples_of_where_you_DO_need_to_share_your_non-OpenStreetMap_data
> [2] version 6.2.2-Google Data version: 160621


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[OSM-talk] Revert UI

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

I've made a web interface to my revert scripts: http://revert.osmz.ru

It is as easy to use as the simple-revert.py, but you don't have to use 
the command-line interface. Simply paste some changesets, press a button 
and watch as they are being reverted.


The reverter has some limits, e.g. only 200 changed objects can be 
reverted, and no way/relation membership changes. On the plus side, it 
does a 3-way merge instead of just restoring older versions, so you 
won't run into any conflicts.


If somebody wants to improve the design or add any features, I'd be glad 
to have your help: https://github.com/Zverik/RevertUI


The backend uses simple-revert scripts, which I turned into a library 
and uses in some other projects: https://github.com/Zverik/simple-revert


IZ

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Re: [OSM-talk] Failed water proposal reversal

[Ilya Zverev]

Tomas Straupis wrote:

>  Water proposal tried to change the tagging:
>  landuse=reservoir => natural=water|water=reservoir
>  And in general all water landuse=x => natural=water|water=x (basin, pond 
> etc.)
>  waterway=riverbank => natural=water|water=riverbank

No.

The water proposal didn't change or deprecate anything, and that is explicitly 
stated on both the proposal and water=* wiki pages.

It does two things:

1. It reassures that it's okay to tag any body of water visible on a satellite 
imagery with natural=water. You don't have to search for clues for the type of 
the body of water, you can just tag it with natural=water, and it would be 
perfectly fine. When another mapper with local knowledge finds that, they can 
add a detailing water=* tag.

2. It allows for discerning lakes, oxbow lakes, and coves; ponds and reflecting 
pools; reservoirs and wastewater reservoirs. The major reason for starting the 
proposal was to invent a way to tag oxbow lakes, btw.

Data consumers will have to live with two tagging schemes, as that is the way 
OSM works. It's not the first time and not the last.

IZ
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Re: [OSM-talk] MAPS.ME edits - partly sub-standard

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi everyone,

I'm very pleased some of us consider me the source of all evil that 
comes from Russia. Although I must confess that I have nothing to do 
with "World of Tanks" (haven't even played it), and the proposal about 
water=* was accepted by 16 mappers, and if you have a problem with that, 
then I agree that we should change our proposal process, but in all 
these years nobody has even started.


As for the maps.me, I am glad that foreign names issue is basically the 
only one that most people agree on. We are of course aware of it, and 
either in the coming release, or the one after it, we will introduce a 
multilanguage name editor. For now we are considering making the name 
tag read-only (for existing objects), but we're still unsure. Alas, 
nobody has offered any good solutions, besides "let the users edit all 
tags like vespucci does" (and teach each of our million users OSM 
tagging schemes).


Let me once more remind of a monitoring tool I did for maps.me edits: 
http://py.osmz.ru/mmwatch/ I know there are a lot of changes, but as 
Jóhannes wrote, we really need better QA tools, and my secret hope was 
that the flood of maps.me edits not only would make people bitter, but 
also would inspire somebody to come up with better tools.


Also, Simon, thanks for your opinion that maps.me has serious problems, 
although it doesn't break any relations, so I don't know what other 
problems could you mean.


IZ

19.06.2016 21:57, Johan C пишет:

I don't know why it should be an invention by Zverik. However, since he
is both an OSFM board member and working for MAPS.ME  he
might show up with a solution.

Cheers, Johan

2016-06-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Tomas Straupis >:

  There is one bad convergence on this.

  While I can also observe that in Lithuania in last month there was a
huge increase in mapsme "edits" and 50% of those are straight bullshit
(like adding as an artwork objects like "my crib", "place I fish",
adding cyrillic names to name tag in Lithuania where cyrilic is
totally alien etc.), 30% edits like adding duplicate points and only
~20% being edits which could be interpreted and after editing begin
useful. Thankfully in Lithuania we employ a mechanism similar to
wikipedias "patrolling" so things like that are fixed pretty quickly.
But still it uses resources which could be used better.

  But this is one another Zveriks "inventions" introducing havoc in
OSM. We had russian automated translation adding to name:ru tags
worldwide "because world of tank needs that". Before that we had
zveriks "idea" of introducing natural=water for everything that is
blue to tagging. Which was made less than a year after he joined OSM
and with hundreds of thousands of objects already marked in a
different way (that idea has failed because even after five years
people still mark objects usual way rather than the new scheme).

  Worst of all Zverik did not engage in any discussion about
aforementioned bad decisions!

  Maybe we should have some guards against such non discussed high
impact "inventions"? And in case of "natural=water for everything
blue" some mechanism to revert such not well thought out "proposals"?

--
Tomas

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Re: [OSM-talk] List of "A year of edits" videos

[Ilya Zverev]

MonkZ wrote:

> I'm seeking a list of "A Year of Edits" videos.

Done: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Timelapse_videos

IZ

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[OSM-talk] Three-months ban is over

[Ilya Zverev]

Browsing 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Xxzme==500=Xxzme 
(500 edits in 4 days!), you can find some interesting things.


Xxzme moved page User:Ajoessen/Mapnik to DE:Ajoessen/Mapnik: guessing 
language

(moved a user page to a public namespace?)

Xxzme moved page Beginners Guide 1.5 to See your work and start using 
data: better title I guess

(no more guide 1.5)

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Beginners_Guide_1.3.3.2=prev=1212297
(it's plain empty now)

(-949)‎ . . Beginners Guide 1.4.1 ‎ (covered in Beginners Guide 1.3)
(there are a lot of similar edits on these guides)

"next/prev links are useless when you have optional steps"
(that's a comment to a lot of edits)

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Contribute_map_data=prev=1212462
(insults)

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Xxzme#Welcome_back
(some discussion of his edits)

For me, it's clear that the ban did not work, and nothing has changed.

IZ

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[OSM-talk] Please ban Xxzme in wiki

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

Who banned Xxzme in wiki a while ago? Please do it again. Not only he 
abuses mappers, in part by deleting parts of their pages in private 
namespaces, he also renames and/or modifies in a bad way wiki pages that 
many mappers link to. E.g. there is no How we map page now.


This is not his first time, so I propose an indefinite ban. No point in 
repeating past arguments, you all know what he does.


Thanks,
IZ

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[OSM-talk] Warning: OSM password phishing

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi, one of our users by mistake logged in on another site:

http://www.reidel.me/index.php

It looks like the OSM forum and mirrors it nearly in real time. Please 
be careful and check the address bar before typing a password.


(Of course it can be an alternative URL for our forum, since it still is 
not on OSM servers, but you can never be too careful.)


IZ

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Re: [Talk-pt] Mapeador visitando Portugal dia 7 e 8

[Ilya Zverev]

Thanks, Nelson and Rui. The podcast will be recorded today on 20:00. I 
usually talk with guests via Skype, so one doesn't need to physically be 
in Porto :) For now it seems we'll be discussing Portugal with our 
Russian friends.


As for the meeting, since nobody in is Porto, I suggest January 10th in 
Lisboa, near Alameda station, 18:00 to 19:00. I'll choose a cafe there. 
If anyone comes, SMS me: +7 921 583-12-91.


http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.73752/-9.13402

IZ

On 01/06/2015 07:41 PM, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote:

Não sei se todos viram ou se possuem interesse, mas o Zverik estará em
Portugal nos dias 7 e 8 agora:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Zverik/diary/28369
Ele tem um podcast de OSM



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[OSM-talk] Tiles and geocoding

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

Just this morning I've done the final todo in the polytiles script:
now it produces tiles 10 times faster, because it renders them in
metatiles. Also MBTiles writer now supports multiprocessing, so it's
also 6-8 times more speed. If you need a lot of tiles, do not download
them from osm.org or other sources, render them yourself: it is
finally faster than downloading.

https://github.com/zverik/polytiles

I'd also like to remind of Nik4, the best tool for preparing printed
maps of any region, any size and any quality; and of BigMap 2 for
downloading and stitching some tiles from any of ~20 sources. The
latter can even work online: Enqueue button queues a task, and in
2-3 minutes you'll get your image. The limit for that is 100 tiles.

https://github.com/zverik/Nik4
http://bigmap.osmz.ru/

As for Nik4, there is Get Veloroad service for generating big vector
maps online (basically a front-end to Nik4), but the server has only
data for Russia and some neighbouring countries. Last week Dmitry
Kiselev has made a Docker container for that: just install Docker,
pull the container and start it:

sudo apt-get install docker.io
sudo docker pull dkiselev/nik4web
sudo docker run -p 8081:80 -i -t dkiselev/nik4web /bin/bash
startup

The front-end would be at http://localhost:8081/nik4. You would need
to run osm2pgsql with your region before requesting images. With it
you can get PNG or vector SVG images (resolution independent),
pre-processed for a sane page size and for easier movement of labels.

Finally, yesterday I've translated into English a small geocoding
exercise: https://github.com/Zverik/visgeocode (live at
http://zverik.github.io/visgeocode/en.html ). It takes a CSV file with
addresses in one of columns, runs these addresses through MapQuest
Nominatim, and allows dragging resulting markers if geocoding was not
precise. Then it can turn markers into building contours, but since my
server has only Russia, you'd need to set up your own (maybe install the
cgi script locally). The result can be downloaded either as CSV or
as GeoJSON. We used this page for geocoding 22k addresses in
Saint-Petersburg; Russian version uses three geocoders for better
quality.


IZ


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Re: [OSM-talk] Nik4: mapnik → image

[Ilya Zverev]

Today I have published Nik4. It makes everything easier.


I see that it can split a large image into smaller mapnik rendering jobs
and combine them after, with --tiles. That's already very useful but is
it also possible to actually keep the tiles (e.g. for building a GDAL
VRT from them)? This would require a separate .pgw file for each tile.


Thanks for the suggestion, I've just published release 1.5 with
`--just-tiles` option: when used, it does not merge tiles, but keeps 
them, and creates ozi/wld files for each if requested. I've tested it 
with gdal_merge.


IZ

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Re: [OSM-talk] Early History of OSM

[Ilya Zverev]

Nick Whitelegg wrote:
 Another thing about the 2006 map is that many of the ways that definitely 
 were there then.

 e.g.
 http://osmz.ru/osm2006.html#14/51.0523/-0.7374

 This is the Fernhurst area, West Sussex. There should be a primary
 road north to south and many more footpaths

 Primary and secondary roads seem to be particularly prone to being
 missing. I think they were always highway=primary so not sure why that is.

Yes, a lot of data that definitely was there seems to be missing.
Another example is by Andreas in Vienna:
http://osmz.ru/osm2006.html#14/48.1982/16.2975
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Vienna-2006-07-04.png

This probably comes from errors in either API 0.3 to 0.6 coversion, or
in cutting out american data.

IZ


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[OSM-talk] Early History of OSM

[Ilya Zverev]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
 I happen to have a number of really old PostgreSQL databases lying
 around and I tried to quickly expose them to anyone who would like to
 have a go at rendering old maps. Caveat: These *only* cover the non US
 part of the planet (the databases were created for animation purposes
 and at the time, US data was plentiful but relatively static and
 therefore useless for animations).

Thanks, here is the map for August 2006: 
http://osmz.ru/osm2006.html#6/53.462/5.087
No point in comparing it to the modern one, I guess.

IZ


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[OSM-talk] Achavi + WhoDidIt

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi! Roland, thanks for Overpass attic feature, and thanks to Norbert for 
Achavi, especially for changeset visualizing feature. I've just added 
links to Achavi from WhoDidIt RSS feed and popups, so you can easily 
check what's been modified.


Also there is a bookmarklet in this shtosm article: 
http://shtosm.ru/all/noveyshaya-istoriya/ (look for Changeset in the 
last passage). It would redirect you to Achavi from a changeset browsing 
page on osm.org.


IZ

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[OSM-talk] Level0 Updates

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi! Jochen's work on Taginfo encouraged me to work on Level0's github 
issues, and today I'm releasing version 1.1 of the editor.


The major (well…) change is that whitespace trimmed from keys and values 
is now registered as modification. For example, a downloaded object with 
name  key will be displayed without the trailing space, but will be 
marked as modified and uploaded with other modifications. You can't not 
have whitespace trimmed.


All changes can now be reviewed by pressing Show osmChange button: it 
will display XML data that would be uploaded to the server.


Custom changeset tags can be specified by adding a changeset object. 
And Overpass API links are now allowed for downloading.


Full changelog is here: 
https://github.com/Zverik/Level0/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md



IZ


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Re: [OSM-talk] Nik4: mapnik → image

[Ilya Zverev]

 Ilya, a big thank you! This looks convenient and promising, am
 waiting now for the second output, the first one, created like this:
 nik4.py -b 5.8 35.5 19 48.1 --ppi 300 --size-px 28108 36000
 osm-render.xml italiabig300dpi.png

 didn't work like expected (I got a tiny map in the upper left
 corner and all the rest was sea-blue).

Yes, that's a bug I've also encountered when trying to render
1000x26000 strip. Looks like an overflow error in Mapnik. Use --tiles
parameter (I'd suggest --tiles 3): it will generate the image in 9
parts and then merge them with Imagemagick.

 Can I feed it with the
 classic render.xml style (no carto), or does it expect a
 carto-style? In the second attempt I'm omitting the dimensions and
 only defining a zoom level, a bounding box and a output resolution.

It expects a regular mapnik xml, not cartocss or cascadenik.
CartoCSS projects should be processed with carto -l.


IZ


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[OSM-talk] Nik4: mapnik → image

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi! I recently needed to create a big georeferenced image from a mapnik 
style file, and found out no image exporting tool currently offers more 
than a direct interface to mapnik's options. That is, I could not get 
image in 300 dpi for printing on an A5 sheet, I had to understand what 
scale_factor is, and what is the default resolution, and why lines had 
become so thick. And I'm a programmer — imagine a confusion of a regular 
user!


Today I have published Nik4. It makes everything easier.

Grab a 800x600 image at z13? -c LON LAT -x 800 600 -z 13 — and no 
suprises like when the output image differs from osm.org (nik2img 
puzzled me with that one). Print a region in 300 dpi on A5? -a 5 --ppi 
300 --bbox X1 Y1 X2 Y2. You don't have to think about scale_factor ever. 
Make a very large image? No problem, use --tiles 4 and wait a bit; you 
won't run out of memory.


See https://github.com/Zverik/Nik4 for an extensive description and 
installation instructions (easy_install nik4 — there, no more 
instructions needed). Print more maps.


IZ

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