Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Daniel Brassard]

Viktoras maitain also a GitHub account and a google group forum for the
tool. Maybe you want to contact him there. He is looking for help to
improve the tool.

https://github.com/viktorasm/ngSkinTools
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ngskintools



On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Eric Turman  wrote:

> Thank you for sharing Cesar,
>
> There are some interesting improvements there, but it still looks like
> you're dealing with Maya's goofy single-bone-at-a-time-mask-style
> weighting. So while, better than Maya standard, it still adhere's pretty
> hard to Maya's flawed core paradigm.
>
> The other and bigger problem--and this is a deal-breaker for me--is that
> it is only for 2014 and older. Since we received 2015 with our $0
> transitions, this is a no-go. For the meantime I'll have to stick with the
> bind it in Maya, export to Soft, weight in Soft, export to Maya and
> constrain to rig in Maya approach.
>
> The relax algorithm looks much better than either Maya or Soft, and
> weighting on layers is intriguing. Maybe Viktoras would be open to adapting
> his tools to work more like a Soft paradigm.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -=Eric
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 2:01 AM, Cesar Saez  wrote:
>
>> ngSkinTools to the rescue!
>> http://www.ngskintools.com/
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Eric Turman wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, point weighting in Maya is horrible. I'm doing some freelance
>>> Maya rigs now and bringing them into Softimage to point weight because
>>> Maya's point weighting wants to make me want to lobotomize myself with
>>> chopsticks through my eyes :P
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Has anyone mentioned the horrible Maya weight painting ? the fact you
 have to lock every bone you are not skinning to, less influences be
 splattered throughout the mesh Jackson Pollock style?

 I know it's a classic complaint but a lot of people are going to feel
 the pain.


>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> -=T=-
>

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Eric Turman]

Thank you for sharing Cesar,

There are some interesting improvements there, but it still looks like
you're dealing with Maya's goofy single-bone-at-a-time-mask-style
weighting. So while, better than Maya standard, it still adhere's pretty
hard to Maya's flawed core paradigm.

The other and bigger problem--and this is a deal-breaker for me--is that it
is only for 2014 and older. Since we received 2015 with our $0 transitions,
this is a no-go. For the meantime I'll have to stick with the bind it in
Maya, export to Soft, weight in Soft, export to Maya and constrain to rig
in Maya approach.

The relax algorithm looks much better than either Maya or Soft, and
weighting on layers is intriguing. Maybe Viktoras would be open to adapting
his tools to work more like a Soft paradigm.

Cheers,

-=Eric



On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 2:01 AM, Cesar Saez  wrote:

> ngSkinTools to the rescue!
> http://www.ngskintools.com/
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:
>
>> Agreed, point weighting in Maya is horrible. I'm doing some freelance
>> Maya rigs now and bringing them into Softimage to point weight because
>> Maya's point weighting wants to make me want to lobotomize myself with
>> chopsticks through my eyes :P
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone mentioned the horrible Maya weight painting ? the fact you
>>> have to lock every bone you are not skinning to, less influences be
>>> splattered throughout the mesh Jackson Pollock style?
>>>
>>> I know it's a classic complaint but a lot of people are going to feel
>>> the pain.
>>>
>>>


-- 




-=T=-

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Ognjen Vukovic]

One thing i just remembered, Dont know if its already been mentioned but
pass options  Where you could set output path per aov, check/uncheck
which aov will be rendered  place your environment, lens shaders and so
on.  In maya its all packed into the render settings which is quite a pita.


On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Cesar Saez  wrote:

> ngSkinTools to the rescue!
> http://www.ngskintools.com/
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:
>
>> Agreed, point weighting in Maya is horrible. I'm doing some freelance
>> Maya rigs now and bringing them into Softimage to point weight because
>> Maya's point weighting wants to make me want to lobotomize myself with
>> chopsticks through my eyes :P
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone mentioned the horrible Maya weight painting ? the fact you
>>> have to lock every bone you are not skinning to, less influences be
>>> splattered throughout the mesh Jackson Pollock style?
>>>
>>> I know it's a classic complaint but a lot of people are going to feel
>>> the pain.
>>>
>>>

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Cesar Saez]

ngSkinTools to the rescue!
http://www.ngskintools.com/


On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:

> Agreed, point weighting in Maya is horrible. I'm doing some freelance Maya
> rigs now and bringing them into Softimage to point weight because Maya's
> point weighting wants to make me want to lobotomize myself with chopsticks
> through my eyes :P
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone mentioned the horrible Maya weight painting ? the fact you
>> have to lock every bone you are not skinning to, less influences be
>> splattered throughout the mesh Jackson Pollock style?
>>
>> I know it's a classic complaint but a lot of people are going to feel the
>> pain.
>>
>>

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Jordi Bares]

It would have been easier to kill Maya and ask what would you want to add into 
Soft.

- Viewport 2.0


Jb

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Apr 2014, at 21:13, "Jill Ramsay (Contractor)" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> A couple of you mentioned 'really contextual menus' (see Aliastair's number 3 
> below).
> 
> Can you explain what's missing for you in Maya in this regard?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jill
> 
> From: 
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>  [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair 
> Hearsum
> Sent: March-25-14 6:16 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: humanize maya, SOFT top 5
> 
> Hello friends
> 
> Me again with my TOP 5's
> 
> I have had some minimal contact with the Humanize Maya people. Lets get our 
> views across with our TOP 5 Softimage user workflow/interface experiences. As 
> usual a list with a brief description.
> Here are some random examples
> 
> 1)Middle mouse to repeat last function
> 2)Multiple windows
> You can have many graph editors, outliners, property pages open at once.
> 3) Really contextual menus
> 4) Comprehensive universal drag and drop of parameters
> Quickly set up expressions.
> 5) Text rather than icons, general stylishness of interface
> 
> 
> Alastair
> 
> --
> Alastair Hearsum
> Head of 3d
> [GLASSWORKS]
> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
> London
> W1F 9NP
> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
> glassworks.co.uk
> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25 
> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and 
> confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views 
> or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
> represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
> advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, 
> dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
> prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return it 
> to the sender and delete this message from your system.
> 

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Eric Turman]

Agreed, point weighting in Maya is horrible. I'm doing some freelance Maya
rigs now and bringing them into Softimage to point weight because Maya's
point weighting wants to make me want to lobotomize myself with chopsticks
through my eyes :P


On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone mentioned the horrible Maya weight painting ? the fact you have
> to lock every bone you are not skinning to, less influences be splattered
> throughout the mesh Jackson Pollock style?
>
> I know it's a classic complaint but a lot of people are going to feel the
> pain.
>
>
> On 16 April 2014 21:13, Jill Ramsay (Contractor)  > wrote:
>
>> Hey guys,
>> A couple of you mentioned 'really contextual menus' (see Aliastair's
>> number 3 below).
>>
>> Can you explain what's missing for you in Maya in this regard?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jill
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
>> Sent: March-25-14 6:16 AM
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>> Subject: humanize maya, SOFT top 5
>>
>> Hello friends
>>
>> Me again with my TOP 5's
>>
>> I have had some minimal contact with the Humanize Maya people. Lets get
>> our views across with our TOP 5 Softimage user workflow/interface
>> experiences. As usual a list with a brief description.
>> Here are some random examples
>>
>> 1)Middle mouse to repeat last function
>> 2)Multiple windows
>> You can have many graph editors, outliners, property pages open at once.
>> 3) Really contextual menus
>> 4) Comprehensive universal drag and drop of parameters
>> Quickly set up expressions.
>> 5) Text rather than icons, general stylishness of interface
>>
>>
>> Alastair
>>
>> --
>> Alastair Hearsum
>> Head of 3d
>> [GLASSWORKS]
>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>> London
>> W1F 9NP
>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>> glassworks.co.uk
>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
>> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>>
>
>


-- 




-=T=-

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Sebastien Sterling]

Has anyone mentioned the horrible Maya weight painting ? the fact you have
to lock every bone you are not skinning to, less influences be splattered
throughout the mesh Jackson Pollock style?

I know it's a classic complaint but a lot of people are going to feel the
pain.


On 16 April 2014 21:13, Jill Ramsay (Contractor)
wrote:

> Hey guys,
> A couple of you mentioned 'really contextual menus' (see Aliastair's
> number 3 below).
>
> Can you explain what's missing for you in Maya in this regard?
>
> Thanks,
> Jill
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
> Sent: March-25-14 6:16 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >
> Subject: humanize maya, SOFT top 5
>
> Hello friends
>
> Me again with my TOP 5's
>
> I have had some minimal contact with the Humanize Maya people. Lets get
> our views across with our TOP 5 Softimage user workflow/interface
> experiences. As usual a list with a brief description.
> Here are some random examples
>
> 1)Middle mouse to repeat last function
> 2)Multiple windows
> You can have many graph editors, outliners, property pages open at once.
> 3) Really contextual menus
> 4) Comprehensive universal drag and drop of parameters
> Quickly set up expressions.
> 5) Text rather than icons, general stylishness of interface
>
>
> Alastair
>
> --
> Alastair Hearsum
> Head of 3d
> [GLASSWORKS]
> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
> London
> W1F 9NP
> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
> glassworks.co.uk
> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>

RE: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Jill Ramsay (Contractor)]

Hey guys,
A couple of you mentioned 'really contextual menus' (see Aliastair's number 3 
below).

Can you explain what's missing for you in Maya in this regard?

Thanks,
Jill

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
Sent: March-25-14 6:16 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

Hello friends

Me again with my TOP 5's

I have had some minimal contact with the Humanize Maya people. Lets get our 
views across with our TOP 5 Softimage user workflow/interface experiences. As 
usual a list with a brief description.
Here are some random examples

1)Middle mouse to repeat last function
2)Multiple windows
You can have many graph editors, outliners, property pages open at once.
3) Really contextual menus
4) Comprehensive universal drag and drop of parameters
Quickly set up expressions.
5) Text rather than icons, general stylishness of interface


Alastair

--
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
[GLASSWORKS]
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25 
Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and 
confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views or 
opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return it 
to the sender and delete this message from your system.
<>

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Jill Ramsay (Contractor)]

Sorry, our messages crossed in the ether!
<>

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Jill Ramsay (Contractor)]

Sorry, just checking you did exactly this… I just tried it and it worked for me.
File -> New Scene -> [  ]
Set working units as required
(Apply) or Edit -> Save Settings
File -> Save Preferences.


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: April-07-14 3:30 PM
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

I did. But will try it again after I re Render.
J

<>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[John Richard Sanchez]

Thanks Jill. That seems to have worked. :)



On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 3:30 PM, John Richard Sanchez <
youngupstar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I did. But will try it again after I re Render.
> J
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>>  Did you change fps in
>> Window->Settings/Preferences->Preferences->Settings->Working Units->Time?
>>
>>
>>
>> If you save this and close and restart Maya is the setting still changed?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joey Ponthieux
>>
>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>>
>> Mymic Technical Services
>>
>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>
>> __
>>
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *John Richard
>> Sanchez
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 07, 2014 2:57 PM
>>
>> *To:* XSI List to post
>> *Subject:* Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there a reason that Maya does not save my preference for 30 frames per
>> second ( I hit save preferences) but when I open a new scene it goes back
>> to 24 fps? Is this a new feature? I am using 2014 sp2. I went to do a new
>> project for a client and of course after the render I realize its not
>> matching the VO because it is at 24 fps. I LOVE using Maya. :)
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Adam Sale  wrote:
>>
>> yes... preserve child transformations.. on the transform node.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:30 AM, olivier jeannel 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Love what you did Brent !
>> Ever thought of sending your resume to SideFX ?
>> Working on a software rather than a puzzle ?
>>
>> Le 03/04/2014 16:33, Brent McPherson a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes I did work on this.
>>
>> The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I
>> added to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got
>> around to actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot
>> workflow...
>>
>> As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky
>>  (push points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but
>> it seems the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange
>> way it works for you guys.
>>
>> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>>
>> I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed
>> in relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair,
>> animation layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools,
>> kinematics, fcurves, ICE (well in fact every part of the software except
>> Rendering) My current involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team
>> but I feel pretty comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow
>> in that area.
>>
>> Cheers.
>> --
>> Brent
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
>> Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>>
>> ...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in
>> the first place. :/
>> [
>> https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]
>> ᐧ<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f%5d%E1%90%A7>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>



-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[John Richard Sanchez]

I did. But will try it again after I re Render.
J


On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:

>  Did you change fps in
> Window->Settings/Preferences->Preferences->Settings->Working Units->Time?
>
>
>
> If you save this and close and restart Maya is the setting still changed?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>
> Mymic Technical Services
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *John Richard
> Sanchez
> *Sent:* Monday, April 07, 2014 2:57 PM
>
> *To:* XSI List to post
> *Subject:* Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>
>
>
> Is there a reason that Maya does not save my preference for 30 frames per
> second ( I hit save preferences) but when I open a new scene it goes back
> to 24 fps? Is this a new feature? I am using 2014 sp2. I went to do a new
> project for a client and of course after the render I realize its not
> matching the VO because it is at 24 fps. I LOVE using Maya. :)
>
> J
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Adam Sale  wrote:
>
> yes... preserve child transformations.. on the transform node.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:30 AM, olivier jeannel 
> wrote:
>
> Love what you did Brent !
> Ever thought of sending your resume to SideFX ?
> Working on a software rather than a puzzle ?
>
> Le 03/04/2014 16:33, Brent McPherson a écrit :
>
>
>
> Yes I did work on this.
>
> The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I
> added to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got
> around to actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot
> workflow...
>
> As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky
>  (push points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but
> it seems the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange
> way it works for you guys.
>
> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>
> I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed in
> relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair,
> animation layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools,
> kinematics, fcurves, ICE (well in fact every part of the software except
> Rendering) My current involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team
> but I feel pretty comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow
> in that area.
>
> Cheers.
> --
> Brent
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
> Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>
> ...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the
> first place. :/
> [
> https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]
> ᐧ<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f%5d%E1%90%A7>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>



-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Jill Ramsay (Contractor)]

Hello John,
You need to set this in New Scene Options to have it affect new scenes and not 
just the current scene.  More info here: 
http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/maya2014/en_us/index.html?url=files/File__New_Scene.htm,topicNumber=d30e48442

I agree it’s confusing.
Jill.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: April-07-14 2:57 PM
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

Is there a reason that Maya does not save my preference for 30 frames per 
second ( I hit save preferences) but when I open a new scene it goes back to 24 
fps? Is this a new feature? I am using 2014 sp2. I went to do a new project for 
a client and of course after the render I realize its not matching the VO 
because it is at 24 fps. I LOVE using Maya. :)
J

<>

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

Did you change fps in 
Window->Settings/Preferences->Preferences->Settings->Working Units->Time?

If you save this and close and restart Maya is the setting still changed?

--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 2:57 PM
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

Is there a reason that Maya does not save my preference for 30 frames per 
second ( I hit save preferences) but when I open a new scene it goes back to 24 
fps? Is this a new feature? I am using 2014 sp2. I went to do a new project for 
a client and of course after the render I realize its not matching the VO 
because it is at 24 fps. I LOVE using Maya. :)
J

On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Adam Sale 
mailto:adamfs...@gmail.com>> wrote:
yes... preserve child transformations.. on the transform node.

On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:30 AM, olivier jeannel 
mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr>> wrote:
Love what you did Brent !
Ever thought of sending your resume to SideFX ?
Working on a software rather than a puzzle ?

Le 03/04/2014 16:33, Brent McPherson a écrit :

Yes I did work on this.

The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I added 
to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got around to 
actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot workflow...

As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky  (push 
points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but it seems 
the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange way it works 
for you guys.

Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)

I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed in 
relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair, animation 
layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools, kinematics, fcurves, 
ICE (well in fact every part of the software except Rendering) My current 
involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team but I feel pretty 
comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow in that area.

Cheers.
--
Brent

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of Peter Agg
Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the 
first place. :/
[https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]ᐧ<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f%5d%E1%90%A7>





--
www.johnrichardsanchez.com<http://www.johnrichardsanchez.com>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[John Richard Sanchez]

Is there a reason that Maya does not save my preference for 30 frames per
second ( I hit save preferences) but when I open a new scene it goes back
to 24 fps? Is this a new feature? I am using 2014 sp2. I went to do a new
project for a client and of course after the render I realize its not
matching the VO because it is at 24 fps. I LOVE using Maya. :)
J


On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Adam Sale  wrote:

> yes... preserve child transformations.. on the transform node.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:30 AM, olivier jeannel 
> wrote:
>
>> Love what you did Brent !
>> Ever thought of sending your resume to SideFX ?
>> Working on a software rather than a puzzle ?
>>
>> Le 03/04/2014 16:33, Brent McPherson a écrit :
>>
>>  Yes I did work on this.
>>>
>>> The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I
>>> added to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got
>>> around to actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot
>>> workflow...
>>>
>>> As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky
>>>  (push points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but
>>> it seems the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange
>>> way it works for you guys.
>>>
>>> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>>>
>>> I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed
>>> in relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair,
>>> animation layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools,
>>> kinematics, fcurves, ICE (well in fact every part of the software except
>>> Rendering) My current involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team
>>> but I feel pretty comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow
>>> in that area.
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>> --
>>> Brent
>>>
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
>>> listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
>>> Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>>>
>>> ...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in
>>> the first place. :/
>>> [https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0Y
>>> Wxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-
>>> 7aa77184e20f]ᐧ<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]%E1%90%A7>
>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Adam Sale]

yes... preserve child transformations.. on the transform node.


On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:30 AM, olivier jeannel wrote:

> Love what you did Brent !
> Ever thought of sending your resume to SideFX ?
> Working on a software rather than a puzzle ?
>
> Le 03/04/2014 16:33, Brent McPherson a écrit :
>
>  Yes I did work on this.
>>
>> The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I
>> added to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got
>> around to actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot
>> workflow...
>>
>> As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky
>>  (push points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but
>> it seems the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange
>> way it works for you guys.
>>
>> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>>
>> I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed
>> in relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair,
>> animation layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools,
>> kinematics, fcurves, ICE (well in fact every part of the software except
>> Rendering) My current involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team
>> but I feel pretty comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow
>> in that area.
>>
>> Cheers.
>> --
>> Brent
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
>> listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
>> Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>>
>> ...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in
>> the first place. :/
>> [https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0Y
>> Wxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-
>> 7aa77184e20f]ᐧ<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]%E1%90%A7>
>>
>>
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[olivier jeannel]

Love what you did Brent !
Ever thought of sending your resume to SideFX ?
Working on a software rather than a puzzle ?

Le 03/04/2014 16:33, Brent McPherson a écrit :

Yes I did work on this.

The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I added 
to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got around to 
actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot workflow...

As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky  (push 
points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but it seems 
the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange way it works 
for you guys.

Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)

I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed in 
relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair, animation 
layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools, kinematics, fcurves, 
ICE (well in fact every part of the software except Rendering) My current 
involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team but I feel pretty 
comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow in that area.

Cheers.
--
Brent

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the 
first place. :/
[https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]ᐧ

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Raffaele Fragapane]

That's been available for dog years in Maya, it's part of the tool settings
for several tools rather than an always manipulation object, but it's there.
If anything it's probably one of the rare things where I prefer Maya when
it comes to the actual rig, it's a lot easier, for transforms, to modulate
and persist changes to transform inheritance.


On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Child Comp" would probably be another essential feature people take for
> granted, the ability to move objects independently of their hierarchies.
>
>
> On 3 April 2014 19:06, Steven Caron  wrote:
>
>> i am most 'proud' of your custom tool sdk... a great parting gift which
>> will give softimage some legs after it's demise.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Brent McPherson <
>> brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com> wrote:
>>
>>> But I am most proud of bringing the view cube to Softimage. :-P
>>>
>>>
>


-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Sebastien Sterling]

"Child Comp" would probably be another essential feature people take for
granted, the ability to move objects independently of their hierarchies.


On 3 April 2014 19:06, Steven Caron  wrote:

> i am most 'proud' of your custom tool sdk... a great parting gift which
> will give softimage some legs after it's demise.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Brent McPherson <
> brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com> wrote:
>
>> But I am most proud of bringing the view cube to Softimage. :-P
>>
>>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Steven Caron]

i am most 'proud' of your custom tool sdk... a great parting gift which
will give softimage some legs after it's demise.


On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Brent McPherson <
brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com> wrote:

> But I am most proud of bringing the view cube to Softimage. :-P
>
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Christoph Muetze]

...Brent, you've just won the conversation.. or.. all of them :)

On 03/04/14 19:53, Brent McPherson wrote:

But I am most proud of bringing the view cube to Softimage. :-P

-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: 03 April 2014 18:44
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

After being one of the original developers on Maya, brent joined
Softimage in 1998 and is responsible for many things people love in
Softimage, including the transform manipulators and the tweak tool.
Interaction design and implementation.

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Brent McPherson]

But I am most proud of bringing the view cube to Softimage. :-P

-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: 03 April 2014 18:44
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

After being one of the original developers on Maya, brent joined
Softimage in 1998 and is responsible for many things people love in
Softimage, including the transform manipulators and the tweak tool.
Interaction design and implementation.

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Brent McPherson
 wrote:
> Yes I did work on this.
>
> The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I 
> added to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got around 
> to actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot workflow...
>
> As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky  
> (push points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but it 
> seems the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange way 
> it works for you guys.
>
> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>
> I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed in 
> relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair, animation 
> layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools, kinematics, fcurves, 
> ICE (well in fact every part of the software except Rendering) My current 
> involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team but I feel pretty 
> comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow in that area.
>
> Cheers.
> --
> Brent
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
> Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>
> ...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the 
> first place. :/
> [https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]ᐧ
>

<>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

After being one of the original developers on Maya, brent joined
Softimage in 1998 and is responsible for many things people love in
Softimage, including the transform manipulators and the tweak tool.
Interaction design and implementation.

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Brent McPherson
 wrote:
> Yes I did work on this.
>
> The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I 
> added to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got around 
> to actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot workflow...
>
> As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky  
> (push points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but it 
> seems the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange way 
> it works for you guys.
>
> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>
> I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed in 
> relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair, animation 
> layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools, kinematics, fcurves, 
> ICE (well in fact every part of the software except Rendering) My current 
> involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team but I feel pretty 
> comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow in that area.
>
> Cheers.
> --
> Brent
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
> Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>
> ...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the 
> first place. :/
> [https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]ᐧ
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Jason S]

Moving to Maya is difficult and means letting go *much* intuitiveness,
speed & functionality, 
(while gaining -some- functionality & performance in certain
aspects)
Moving to Houdini is difficult and means letting go much intuitiveness,
speed & functionality, 
(while gaining -some- functionality & -some- flexibility)
Moving to Modo is (not as much but still) difficult
and means letting go much functionality,
(while gaining -some- functionality)

Any of which, despite -some- advantages, means letting-go "LOTS" for
anyone knowing SI.
(cursing at the screen doing things that were formely.. simple,
or at-all possible)

And when it comes to *why*, I think is what seems to make people not
particularly happy.

If Maya had proved to have even the slightest chance of becoming even
half as "workable" as SI overall, 
(in real terms since 2002)
the lingering sentiment would probably have been somewhat different.

That, while actually getting the point across can indeed be another
story altogether.

Even if SI actually had direct thought to scene transfer functionality,

(which would have made it's demise even more "unsurprising" from
a "strategic" standpoint)
it wouldn't have changed either it's fate, or any "open-mindedness"
towards actual understanding,
(depending on the strength of the will to dismiss, not
understand, or to follow the heard)
tending to always lead to the same (lego) brick wall.


On 04/03/14 10:39, Mirko Jankovic wrote:

  there are a lot of things that simply can;t just fit
to top 5 :)
  it is not joke when ppl say just strap name Maya on top of
Softimage and there you go ;)
  
  
  

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[John Richard Sanchez]

"People that haven't used Maya that much don't realize how useful that "n"
SI feature was because they though it was so basic that they assumed every
DCC had it. Center is one of those."

Exactly. I had my shock moment actually working on a project with a
deadline looming.

"At first, I though that Maya's Pivot was the equivalent to SI Center and
Pivot. It may take you a while to realize that it isn't."

Yes I am now enlightened about how that stuff works under the hood in both
Maya and XSI.

Brent I wish you the best. As Eric said there are many little things like
this we will miss but we wont realize till we actually start working and
using Maya. ( if we end up going that route.)


On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Martin Yara  wrote:

> People that haven't used Maya that much don't realize how useful that "n"
> SI feature was because they though it was so basic that they assumed every
> DCC had it. Center is one of those.
>
> At first, I though that Maya's Pivot was the equivalent to SI Center and
> Pivot. It may take you a while to realize that it isn't.
>
> About SI pivot, now I understand why the pivot rotation option in
> Softimage never worked for me.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Brent McPherson <
> brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>>
>>


-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Martin Yara]

People that haven't used Maya that much don't realize how useful that "n"
SI feature was because they though it was so basic that they assumed every
DCC had it. Center is one of those.

At first, I though that Maya's Pivot was the equivalent to SI Center and
Pivot. It may take you a while to realize that it isn't.

About SI pivot, now I understand why the pivot rotation option in Softimage
never worked for me.

Martin



On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Brent McPherson <
brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com> wrote:

>
> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Eric Thivierge]

I'm in the same boat. It's this small stuff that we're all going to 
take for granted until we realize it's not there. It would be one of 
the essential features I'd want, but then there are about a 1000 of 
those for me. :\ Going to be difficult.


Eric T.

On Thursday, April 03, 2014 10:42:30 AM, Peter Agg wrote:

"Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)"

In all honesty I've never even considered life without it...

...

Damnit., Now I have. :(

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Peter Agg]

"Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)"

In all honesty I've never even considered life without it...

...

Damnit., Now I have. :(

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Mirko Jankovic]

there are a lot of things that simply can;t just fit to top 5 :)
it is not joke when ppl say just strap name Maya on top of Softimage and
there you go ;)


On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Brent McPherson <
brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com> wrote:

> Yes I did work on this.
>
> The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I
> added to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got
> around to actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot
> workflow...
>
> As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky
>  (push points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but
> it seems the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange
> way it works for you guys.
>
> Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)
>
> I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed in
> relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair,
> animation layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools,
> kinematics, fcurves, ICE (well in fact every part of the software except
> Rendering) My current involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team
> but I feel pretty comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow
> in that area.
>
> Cheers.
> --
> Brent
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
> Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>
> ...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the
> first place. :/
> [
> https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]ᐧ<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]%E1%90%A7>
>
>

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Brent McPherson]

Yes I did work on this.

The plan was always to replace the guts of Center with the pivot stuff I added 
to kinematics since it could handle rotation. We just never got around to 
actually doing that and finishing off that part of the pivot workflow...

As I said before I always thought the way center worked was a bit hacky  (push 
points in one direction and modifying the transform in another) but it seems 
the interactive/pervasive nature of it far outweighed the strange way it works 
for you guys.

Now I'm curious if it was even on anyone's top 5 list. ;-)

I'm not a really good person to comment on the general issues discussed in 
relation to Maya workflow. While working on Soft I worked on hair, animation 
layers, lip sync, modeling, object view/isolate, tools, kinematics, fcurves, 
ICE (well in fact every part of the software except Rendering) My current 
involvement in Maya is limited to the modeling team but I feel pretty 
comfortable that I can have a positive impact on workflow in that area.

Cheers.
--
Brent

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
Sent: 03 April 2014 15:04
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the 
first place. :/
[https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=acGdyaXN3b2xkQGZ1c2lvbmRpZ2l0YWxwcm9kdWN0aW9ucy5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=84bd8330-649c-42ca-b0bb-7aa77184e20f]ᐧ

<>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Eric Thivierge]

In my opinion this post is exactly what the other recent posts on the 
other thread (March 28th, 2014) about how every single thread keeps 
getting pushed back off topic and turns into a hate-fest are all about.


Sorry Paul, but this post isn't really productive is it? It's only 
stirring things up again when this thread has been pretty useful to many 
users to be able to explain what we find useful from this feature in 
Softimage. I don't care if Luc-Eric knows about it or not. Point is, we 
need to voice the usefulness of it for those of us who will be moving to 
Maya so we can have a fighting chance to have something similarly useful 
to keep working.


Can we please keep the useful threads useful?

Thanks,
Eric T.

On 4/3/2014 9:48 AM, Paul Griswold wrote:
How many of you are utterly shocked at how LITTLE anyone at all from 
Autodesk seems to know about Softimage & it's capabilities?


It's almost like they bought it & never opened it (regardless of which 
Marc was in charge).


-Paul

ᐧ

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Peter Agg]

...but from what he said Brent actually developed that part of Soft in the
first place. :/


On 3 April 2014 14:48, Paul Griswold  wrote:

> How many of you are utterly shocked at how LITTLE anyone at all from
> Autodesk seems to know about Softimage & it's capabilities?
>
> It's almost like they bought it & never opened it (regardless of which
> Marc was in charge).
>
> -Paul
>
> ᐧ
>

Re[2]: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Eugen Sares]

I am too!
There obviously was much arrogance and/or ignorance in the Maya camp the
last 6 years...
And no, the argument that 'more important under the hood' stuff has been
fixed all the time doesn't count.
UI/workflow issues are only as of now regonized/thematized as such - the
impulse coming, to a good part, from the uproar of the SI userbase.

Moot point anyway.
Soft was the thorn in AD's flesh... made Maya and Max look
embarrassingly old.

And no, Softimage is no perfect application either (no need to go into
details anymore), but of those three, it's workflow was and is still
simply the best by far.


-- Originalnachricht --
Von: "Paul Griswold" 
An: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" 
Gesendet: 03.04.2014 15:48:26
Betreff: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)


How many of you are utterly shocked at how LITTLE anyone at all from
Autodesk seems to know about Softimage & it's capabilities?

It's almost like they bought it & never opened it (regardless of which
Marc was in charge).

-Paul

ᐧ


---
Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der avast! Antivirus Schutz 
ist aktiv.
http://www.avast.com

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Paul Griswold]

How many of you are utterly shocked at how LITTLE anyone at all from
Autodesk seems to know about Softimage & it's capabilities?

It's almost like they bought it & never opened it (regardless of which Marc
was in charge).

-Paul

ᐧ

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Raffaele Fragapane]

For modeling proposes with nex it's actually not bad at all, though you do
have to memorise more tricks and steps than you would with soft, and a
handful more clicks.
My comments are solely regarding the centre manipulation, something that
Maya does differently at a fairly low level to begin with, and that out of
the box sorely lacks some tools.

I don't think it healthy to confuse the two things :)
On 3 Apr 2014 22:50, "olivier jeannel"  wrote:

>  That's amazing how poor seems to be maya when I read  you guys.
> Fortunatly, I should never have to use it.
> I'm edititing very fast some subd hard surface here, the pivot is dancing
> in every diretion, snaping where it has to, aligning on the fly with
> whatever i ask at the speed of light though, I must say, I'm a little
> sleepy..
> Ah, my looping techno music comes to the end, and the modeling is done.
>
>
>
> Le 03/04/2014 01:00, Raffaele Fragapane a écrit :
>
> Harder than that, the equivalent would be to select all components, move
> and rotate them numerically, then figure out the reciprocal transform of
> what you just did and apply it to the object's transform.
>
>  Center mode is also not equivalent or obsoleted by neutral poses, nor
> it's equated by Maya's pivot control.
>
>  It's sorely missed by many in Maya.
> On top of that, Maya snapping facilities, particularly when it comes to
> rotations, are wonky and often don't work at all.
>
>  The modelling toolset, several interaction modes with the pivot, and
> many other things don't support snapping, and most certainly don't support
> matching transforms.
> Adding insult to injury, matching or resetting transforms in Maya is
> highly deficient out of the box, as it will often work on the whole
> hierarchy regardless of what you intended to do.
>
>  Lastly, center mode worked seamlessly with all manipulation tools, you
> could switch to center mode and have child compensation on and snap/match
> to another object.
> This offers unequalled control over geometry handling in relation to its
> center.
>
>  In Maya I've always found pivots superior to neutral pose for a long
> list of reasons, at least functionally, though the manipulation itself is
> weak (again, Maya is generally weak and fragmented in dealing with
> rotations). Maya's handling of reciprocating transforms between transform
> proper and geometry though leaves A LOT to be desired, and a page or two
> from XSI's book should be taken.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
>> like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
>> "transforming the geometry")
>> Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
>> specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
>> them.
>>
>
>
>
>  --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>
>
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Christian Lattuada]

Great Olivier, Softimage flow!


.:.
Christian Lattuada

tel +39 3331277475
...


On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 1:49 PM, olivier jeannel wrote:

>  That's amazing how poor seems to be maya when I read  you guys.
> Fortunatly, I should never have to use it.
> I'm edititing very fast some subd hard surface here, the pivot is dancing
> in every diretion, snaping where it has to, aligning on the fly with
> whatever i ask at the speed of light though, I must say, I'm a little
> sleepy..
> Ah, my looping techno music comes to the end, and the modeling is done.
>
>
>
> Le 03/04/2014 01:00, Raffaele Fragapane a écrit :
>
> Harder than that, the equivalent would be to select all components, move
> and rotate them numerically, then figure out the reciprocal transform of
> what you just did and apply it to the object's transform.
>
>  Center mode is also not equivalent or obsoleted by neutral poses, nor
> it's equated by Maya's pivot control.
>
>  It's sorely missed by many in Maya.
> On top of that, Maya snapping facilities, particularly when it comes to
> rotations, are wonky and often don't work at all.
>
>  The modelling toolset, several interaction modes with the pivot, and
> many other things don't support snapping, and most certainly don't support
> matching transforms.
> Adding insult to injury, matching or resetting transforms in Maya is
> highly deficient out of the box, as it will often work on the whole
> hierarchy regardless of what you intended to do.
>
>  Lastly, center mode worked seamlessly with all manipulation tools, you
> could switch to center mode and have child compensation on and snap/match
> to another object.
> This offers unequalled control over geometry handling in relation to its
> center.
>
>  In Maya I've always found pivots superior to neutral pose for a long
> list of reasons, at least functionally, though the manipulation itself is
> weak (again, Maya is generally weak and fragmented in dealing with
> rotations). Maya's handling of reciprocating transforms between transform
> proper and geometry though leaves A LOT to be desired, and a page or two
> from XSI's book should be taken.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
>> like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
>> "transforming the geometry")
>> Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
>> specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
>> them.
>>
>
>
>
>  --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>
>
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[olivier jeannel]

That's amazing how poor seems to be maya when I read  you guys.
Fortunatly, I should never have to use it.
I'm edititing very fast some subd hard surface here, the pivot is 
dancing in every diretion, snaping where it has to, aligning on the fly 
with whatever i ask at the speed of light though, I must say, I'm a 
little sleepy..

Ah, my looping techno music comes to the end, and the modeling is done.



Le 03/04/2014 01:00, Raffaele Fragapane a écrit :
Harder than that, the equivalent would be to select all components, 
move and rotate them numerically, then figure out the reciprocal 
transform of what you just did and apply it to the object's transform.


Center mode is also not equivalent or obsoleted by neutral poses, nor 
it's equated by Maya's pivot control.


It's sorely missed by many in Maya.
On top of that, Maya snapping facilities, particularly when it comes 
to rotations, are wonky and often don't work at all.


The modelling toolset, several interaction modes with the pivot, and 
many other things don't support snapping, and most certainly don't 
support matching transforms.
Adding insult to injury, matching or resetting transforms in Maya is 
highly deficient out of the box, as it will often work on the whole 
hierarchy regardless of what you intended to do.


Lastly, center mode worked seamlessly with all manipulation tools, you 
could switch to center mode and have child compensation on and 
snap/match to another object.
This offers unequalled control over geometry handling in relation to 
its center.


In Maya I've always found pivots superior to neutral pose for a long 
list of reasons, at least functionally, though the manipulation itself 
is weak (again, Maya is generally weak and fragmented in dealing with 
rotations). Maya's handling of reciprocating transforms between 
transform proper and geometry though leaves A LOT to be desired, and a 
page or two from XSI's book should be taken.



On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau > wrote:




Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
"transforming the geometry")
Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
them.




--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship 
it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Eric Turman]

Yep center is useful when you ant to keep the points in place...kind of
like the difference between moving the house closer to the mountain rather
than moving the mountain closer to the house ;)


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Adam Sale  wrote:

> You guys have said it all.. absolute agreement
> On Apr 2, 2014 6:40 PM, "Perryharovas"  wrote:
>
>> Totally agree.
>> And just to chime in, I use center mode many times per session, per day.
>> Essential workflow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Please excuse typos and
>> brief replies.
>> Thank you!
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Harder than that, the equivalent would be to select all components, move
>> and rotate them numerically, then figure out the reciprocal transform of
>> what you just did and apply it to the object's transform.
>>
>> Center mode is also not equivalent or obsoleted by neutral poses, nor
>> it's equated by Maya's pivot control.
>>
>> It's sorely missed by many in Maya.
>> On top of that, Maya snapping facilities, particularly when it comes to
>> rotations, are wonky and often don't work at all.
>>
>> The modelling toolset, several interaction modes with the pivot, and many
>> other things don't support snapping, and most certainly don't support
>> matching transforms.
>> Adding insult to injury, matching or resetting transforms in Maya is
>> highly deficient out of the box, as it will often work on the whole
>> hierarchy regardless of what you intended to do.
>>
>> Lastly, center mode worked seamlessly with all manipulation tools, you
>> could switch to center mode and have child compensation on and snap/match
>> to another object.
>> This offers unequalled control over geometry handling in relation to its
>> center.
>>
>> In Maya I've always found pivots superior to neutral pose for a long list
>> of reasons, at least functionally, though the manipulation itself is weak
>> (again, Maya is generally weak and fragmented in dealing with rotations).
>> Maya's handling of reciprocating transforms between transform proper and
>> geometry though leaves A LOT to be desired, and a page or two from XSI's
>> book should be taken.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
>>> like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
>>> "transforming the geometry")
>>> Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
>>> specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
>>> them.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
>> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>>
>>


-- 




-=T=-

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Adam Sale]

You guys have said it all.. absolute agreement
On Apr 2, 2014 6:40 PM, "Perryharovas"  wrote:

> Totally agree.
> And just to chime in, I use center mode many times per session, per day.
> Essential workflow.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Please excuse typos and
> brief replies.
> Thank you!
>
> On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Harder than that, the equivalent would be to select all components, move
> and rotate them numerically, then figure out the reciprocal transform of
> what you just did and apply it to the object's transform.
>
> Center mode is also not equivalent or obsoleted by neutral poses, nor it's
> equated by Maya's pivot control.
>
> It's sorely missed by many in Maya.
> On top of that, Maya snapping facilities, particularly when it comes to
> rotations, are wonky and often don't work at all.
>
> The modelling toolset, several interaction modes with the pivot, and many
> other things don't support snapping, and most certainly don't support
> matching transforms.
> Adding insult to injury, matching or resetting transforms in Maya is
> highly deficient out of the box, as it will often work on the whole
> hierarchy regardless of what you intended to do.
>
> Lastly, center mode worked seamlessly with all manipulation tools, you
> could switch to center mode and have child compensation on and snap/match
> to another object.
> This offers unequalled control over geometry handling in relation to its
> center.
>
> In Maya I've always found pivots superior to neutral pose for a long list
> of reasons, at least functionally, though the manipulation itself is weak
> (again, Maya is generally weak and fragmented in dealing with rotations).
> Maya's handling of reciprocating transforms between transform proper and
> geometry though leaves A LOT to be desired, and a page or two from XSI's
> book should be taken.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
>> like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
>> "transforming the geometry")
>> Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
>> specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
>> them.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Perryharovas]

Totally agree. 
And just to chime in, I use center mode many times per session, per day. 
Essential workflow.



Sent from my iPhone
Please excuse typos and
brief replies. 
Thank you!

> On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Raffaele Fragapane  
> wrote:
> 
> Harder than that, the equivalent would be to select all components, move and 
> rotate them numerically, then figure out the reciprocal transform of what you 
> just did and apply it to the object's transform.
> 
> Center mode is also not equivalent or obsoleted by neutral poses, nor it's 
> equated by Maya's pivot control.
> 
> It's sorely missed by many in Maya.
> On top of that, Maya snapping facilities, particularly when it comes to 
> rotations, are wonky and often don't work at all.
> 
> The modelling toolset, several interaction modes with the pivot, and many 
> other things don't support snapping, and most certainly don't support 
> matching transforms.
> Adding insult to injury, matching or resetting transforms in Maya is highly 
> deficient out of the box, as it will often work on the whole hierarchy 
> regardless of what you intended to do.
> 
> Lastly, center mode worked seamlessly with all manipulation tools, you could 
> switch to center mode and have child compensation on and snap/match to 
> another object.
> This offers unequalled control over geometry handling in relation to its 
> center.
> 
> In Maya I've always found pivots superior to neutral pose for a long list of 
> reasons, at least functionally, though the manipulation itself is weak 
> (again, Maya is generally weak and fragmented in dealing with rotations). 
> Maya's handling of reciprocating transforms between transform proper and 
> geometry though leaves A LOT to be desired, and a page or two from XSI's book 
> should be taken.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
>> like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
>> "transforming the geometry")
>> Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
>> specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
>> them.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and 
> let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Harder than that, the equivalent would be to select all components, move
and rotate them numerically, then figure out the reciprocal transform of
what you just did and apply it to the object's transform.

Center mode is also not equivalent or obsoleted by neutral poses, nor it's
equated by Maya's pivot control.

It's sorely missed by many in Maya.
On top of that, Maya snapping facilities, particularly when it comes to
rotations, are wonky and often don't work at all.

The modelling toolset, several interaction modes with the pivot, and many
other things don't support snapping, and most certainly don't support
matching transforms.
Adding insult to injury, matching or resetting transforms in Maya is highly
deficient out of the box, as it will often work on the whole hierarchy
regardless of what you intended to do.

Lastly, center mode worked seamlessly with all manipulation tools, you
could switch to center mode and have child compensation on and snap/match
to another object.
This offers unequalled control over geometry handling in relation to its
center.

In Maya I've always found pivots superior to neutral pose for a long list
of reasons, at least functionally, though the manipulation itself is weak
(again, Maya is generally weak and fragmented in dealing with rotations).
Maya's handling of reciprocating transforms between transform proper and
geometry though leaves A LOT to be desired, and a page or two from XSI's
book should be taken.


On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:

>
>
> Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
> like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
> "transforming the geometry")
> Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
> specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
> them.
>



-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[John Richard Sanchez]

rtex operator to do this? Why can't I just switch to Component
>> Type and maintain use of the Channel editor's Transform entries? How much
>> planning is required?
>>
>> Is there another way in Maya to do this? I don't recall, I got used to
>> making null rigs.
>>
>> In Maya its easier, more forgiving, and simpler to just go the null rig
>> route. I think its potentially appropriate to argue that it might also be
>> good form. It introduces far less risk or possibility of mis-selecting
>> vertices, putting the vertices in the wrong place, damage to geometry. But
>> it's not more intuitive than Center.
>>
>> Yes the null rig method can also be done in Softimage as an alternative
>> method to using Center. Softimage also supports the vertex back-rotation
>> through a Cluster.
>>
>> This is not an issue of whether Maya provides us the ability to do these
>> things. It does. And very reliably. The question is whether it provides
>> these abilities in an intuitive and user friendly manner. It's a matter of
>> human factors.
>>
>> But to be fair, Softimage had its own issues with this problem. Just far
>> fewer than Maya.
>>
>> --
>> Joey Ponthieux
>> __
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-
>> > boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:26 AM
>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> > Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]
>> >  wrote:
>> > > Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom
>> rotations to
>> > > set up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to
>> > > rotate the surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the
>> > > right one, select and rotate it just to rotate the surface.
>> >
>> > Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
>> like
>> > moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls "transforming
>> the
>> > geometry") Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around
>> for
>> > your specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
>> them.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>



-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Sebastien Sterling]

t; it's not more intuitive than Center.
>>
>> Yes the null rig method can also be done in Softimage as an alternative
>> method to using Center. Softimage also supports the vertex back-rotation
>> through a Cluster.
>>
>> This is not an issue of whether Maya provides us the ability to do these
>> things. It does. And very reliably. The question is whether it provides
>> these abilities in an intuitive and user friendly manner. It's a matter of
>> human factors.
>>
>> But to be fair, Softimage had its own issues with this problem. Just far
>> fewer than Maya.
>>
>> --
>> Joey Ponthieux
>> __
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-
>> > boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:26 AM
>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> > Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]
>> >  wrote:
>> > > Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom
>> rotations to
>> > > set up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to
>> > > rotate the surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the
>> > > right one, select and rotate it just to rotate the surface.
>> >
>> > Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
>> like
>> > moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls "transforming
>> the
>> > geometry") Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around
>> for
>> > your specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
>> them.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[John Richard Sanchez]

 Maya.
>
> --
> Joey Ponthieux
> __
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-
> > boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:26 AM
> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> > Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]
> >  wrote:
> > > Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom
> rotations to
> > > set up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to
> > > rotate the surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the
> > > right one, select and rotate it just to rotate the surface.
> >
> > Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
> like
> > moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls "transforming
> the
> > geometry") Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around
> for
> > your specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
> them.
>
>


-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

I'm not sure I see how that would easily solve my problem without introducing 
other problems, risks, or complex workflow. I don't even see how it competes 
with Softimage's method.

I have geometry that is sometimes generated in CAD or provided from other 
sources. The geometry, and its relative components often have to remain in 
their  relative positions. But I need to define custom articulations. I often 
have more freedom to cheat on the articulations than I do on the topology.

If in Maya I select the aileron, rotate it till the pivot matches the rotation 
angle I want, then select all the points of the aileron and attempt to back 
rotate them until the geometry matches its previous position against the new 
rotation angle, can I do that? Yes, but with caveats:

1. If I select components and proceed to back rotate the geometry by using the 
Channnel editor, why do I lose the numerical channel editor transform entries. 
This would have been the intuitive approach because that's how we do this with 
object selection. But there is no congruency here. It would be my first 
anticipation on how it might be achieved.

2. Might it be possible to eyeball the back rotation with just the manipulator? 
Yes, but what does that do to the accuracy of my geometry position? I might 
possibly be less concerned for the accuracy in the rotation angle than in the 
placement of the geometry. Either way one or the other must sacrificed. In this 
scenario Maya forces me to sacrifice geometry position. What if I don't want to 
sacrifice that?

3. What if I am rotating this on more than one axis? Can I use the Channel 
Editor's CV list to accomplish this? How do I know what vertex coordinates to 
enter here? Can I use it at all? Strike three in anticipating a potential 
method.

4. polyMoveVertex .  So yes there is a way to do this in Maya. Assuming I have 
an object under another in a hierarchy I:

a. select the child object that I want change its pivot angle

b. rotate the object -30 degrees in Z

c. select component type
*in the event you were in component type already and selected the object from 
the outliner, component type is still active but object is selected, you then 
have to select object type and reselect component type just to get back to 
component selection or make a new component selection. 

d. select all components on the  object

e. go to polygon module (if you're not there already)

f. go to Edit mesh -> Transform Component  (I now get a polyMoveVertex  
operator in my Input stack).

g. enter a positive 30 degrees in Z, geometry is now back rotated

h. return to object type

i. hit Edit -> Delete by Type -> History ( Assuming I have construction 
history on.  Further why can't Ijust right-click delete history 
on this operator?)


Yet how simple are any of these approaches compared to:

Select the Object, Select Center, enter -30 at the Rotate transform?

Yes in Maya I can do this, but is it easy? Is it risky if I tried to do it 
using solely a manipulator? Is it intuitive? Why must I use a polyMoveVertex 
operator to do this? Why can't I just switch to Component Type and maintain use 
of the Channel editor's Transform entries? How much planning is required?

Is there another way in Maya to do this? I don't recall, I got used to making 
null rigs.

In Maya its easier, more forgiving, and simpler to just go the null rig route. 
I think its potentially appropriate to argue that it might also be good form. 
It introduces far less risk or possibility of mis-selecting vertices, putting 
the vertices in the wrong place, damage to geometry. But it's not more 
intuitive than Center.

Yes the null rig method can also be done in Softimage as an alternative method 
to using Center. Softimage also supports the vertex back-rotation through a 
Cluster.

This is not an issue of whether Maya provides us the ability to do these 
things. It does. And very reliably. The question is whether it provides these 
abilities in an intuitive and user friendly manner. It's a matter of human 
factors. 

But to be fair, Softimage had its own issues with this problem. Just far fewer 
than Maya.

--
Joey Ponthieux
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not 
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.


> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-
> boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:26 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
> 
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]
>  wrote:
> > Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom ro

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Matt Lind]

The point of the center mode (from the user's perspective) is to be able to 
preserve the geometry as you see it while being able to correct the transform.

Center mode is heavily used here.  It's not strictly for corrective purposes, 
but also for assisting in setting up manipulations for modeling and rigging.  
We align centers to ensure that objects enveloped to the same deformers move 
together in unison without separating from each other.  That's *really 
important* when doing squash n' stretch or other non-uniform deformations.

Center mode is a staple in the toolset, please implement it into Maya if not 
already there.   While you're at it, implement softimage scaling.  It would 
save us months/years of re-rigging a very large arsenal of assets.

Matt



-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 8:26 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] 
 wrote:
> Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom rotations to
> set up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to 
> rotate the surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the 
> right one, select and rotate it just to rotate the surface.

Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is like 
moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls "transforming the 
geometry") Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for 
your specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate them.

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Siew Yi Liang]

Hi Luc-Eric:

A simple problem I had with the lack of a center/offset rotation pivot 
attribute in Maya was when I was rigging this guy:


http://1drv.ms/1lndvDS

His eyelids are using a combination of weighted joints to control major 
movement and clusters, to control the side-to-side. For the clusters, 
however, I needed their centers to match the rotation of the eyelid 
bones exactly
so that I could use set driven keys to connect the control curves to 
their movement. I ended up having to make a quick hack script that would 
makea temporary orientConstraint, grab the offset values, then delete 
the constraint and piping those values into the rotateAxis of the 
clusters instead to bring them back into original position.


There is probably a better way to do this and avoid having to work 
around like this (I was originally going to do bones all over the 
eyelids but it would have been a nightmare setting SDKs for that), but 
with the time limit, it was all I had and what I could do. A secondary 
transform attribute that was common to all transform nodes would go a 
long way towards helping XSI > Maya transitions, I think, especially 
when you need like exact pivot matches instead of rotating things around 
manually to kind of estimate it. :P Plus then you wouldn't have to worry 
about geometry VS clusters VS whatever node it is, as long as it has a 
transform, you know you're safe since you have access to a second pivot 
instead of having to create an intermediate null object for that purpose 
(and in any case that doesn't work as well for relative-deforming clusters)


Hope that makes sense!

Yours sincerely,
Siew Yi Liang

On 4/2/2014 8:25 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]
 wrote:

Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom rotations to
set up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to rotate
the surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the right one,
select and rotate it just to rotate the surface.

Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
"transforming the geometry")
Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
them.

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Christoph Muetze]

On 02/04/14 17:25, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:
Is that always true in your scenarios? Moving center in Softimage is 
like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls 
"transforming the geometry") Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the 
simplest work-around for your specific scenario in Maya be to select 
all points and move/rotate them. 


Whenever I need to relocate a pivot temporarily for whatever reason I 
usually snap a mesh to R/T 0/0/0 world space, leave the offset of the 
mesh in place (aka don't freeze S/R/T), then move/rotate the pivot to 
some other position, do whatever I need to - when i'm done I reposition 
the pivot to R/T 0/0/0 world again and roll everything else back - 
Tadaa..  \o/ It's just a few clicks AND is completely nondestructive, 
too ...without ever even touching the operator stack...


also i use tiny polygons outside of (mostly character-) meshes regularly 
to simulate whatever COG of an object i might need... sometimes using 
this trick to storing several COG's outside the geometry (as in: another 
object), quickly deleting and merging them back into the mesh as needed...


location location location :)

Cheers!
Chris

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]
 wrote:
> Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom rotations to
> set up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to rotate
> the surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the right one,
> select and rotate it just to rotate the surface.

Is that always true in your scenarios?  Moving center in Softimage is
like moving all the points of the geometry. (What brent calls
"transforming the geometry")
Knowing that it does that, wouldn't the simplest work-around for your
specific scenario in Maya be to select all points and move/rotate
them.

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Ed Manning]

Trying to look at this from a high-level non-TD user perspective...

In Soft, whether it was intentional design or just fell out of the toolset
that evolved, any geometrical object (not using the word in the programming
sense) has, through centers, pivots, reference planes, neutral poses,
constraint compensation and child compensation, effectively got a complete
and fairly intuitive rig already embedded.  The ability to toggle in and
out of various manipulation modes easily is very important in terms of
usability.  The combination of the tabbed PPGs and operator stack allow
people to drill down to the atomic level if necessary, but don't tend to
interfere with the user experience.  The fact remarked on above, that all
the tools continue to work in all modes, is also key.

In Maya, it seems to me that an underlying assumption was made that
everything should be REALLY atomic, and that users should do everything by
assembling things into mostly single-purpose, single-mode rigs or tools.  I
guess this makes sense in a pipelined, scripted environment, especially
when you have TDs to build and deploy a stable toolset, but it's hell on
Earth for a sole-practitioner/generalist who is expected to quickly produce
results from scratch.  I gather that you *could* devise a rig, using
locators and constraints and whatnot, that would emulate the flexibility of
all the Softimage transform controls, and use a script to apply it to any
object that gets a transform node, but unless you also spend considerable
time to make a custom UI for it, the usability would be awful.  Not to
mention the mess you'd have in the node editor or outliner.

To me, this goes along with the silly amount of clicking on things you have
to do in Maya -- it's all very logical and sensible from a really granular
standpoint, but scales poorly (in the sense that repetitive tasks become
REALLY repetitive) and neglects the difference between things that need to
be done frequently and things that are rarely needed.

And I guess the tendency toward single-purpose single-mode tools and
operations is also related to this, with the often-disastrous effect of
being unable to make even a simple change without recreating the whole
history of operations.  Again, if you do everything with a script, that
might not be a big deal -- you edit the script to make the change, then run
the whole thing again.  But if you are trying to keep everything "live" and
editable, and don't have scripting skills, or a TD who does, Maya is
intrinsically more limited.

I'm resigned to the prospect of dusting off scripting skills I haven't
exercised in nearly 20 years, but I'm not happy about what is basically a
regression in the state of the art.  And I know that scripting and coding
are hugely powerful tools -- there are things that you can, or should, ONLY
do with them -- but I am not nearly as facile with those tools as the ones
in the Softimage workflow/toolset.  Besides -- it's wasteful and inane to
use a sophisticated, powerful tool to do a simple frequent task.  Just
because I could use a 6-axis CNC milling machine to drill a hole in a board
doesn't mean it's a better tool for the job than my old Makita driver
drill. Yes, if I needed to make several dozen holes, all precisely sized
and spaced, at different angles, in several different boards meant to fit
together at a later stage, that CNC machine would be handy -- but 99.99% of
the time, all I need is that one simple hole, right NOW, and I don't want
to take the workpiece off the jobsite back to the machine shop.

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Martin Yara]

In SI we use both pivots and centers. Pivots lack rotation or at least I've
never found how to use them so we use Centers for that.

Being able to use SRT in custom angles is quite useful. In SI you have
centers and reference planes. You have also pivots.

In Maya you only have a pivot that you can only specify it's position. The
rotation axis works only for rotation and custom axis orientation are
Translation and Scale tools options that work separately from the object
rotation axis and you can only manipulate it in the viewport. And since
it's a tool option you can only have 1 custom angle for translation and
scale (1 per tool).

You can't move, let's say, an object 10.54 units in diagonal 30 degrees
without calculating it or scripting. In SI you can do it in a few seconds
with precision and you have multiple ways to do it.

You can't do this with components either in Maya.

So, I think Maya needs at least half of the Softimage MCP.

Martin



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:

>  All the time. Say I have an aileron, flap or other control surface on an
> aircraft. Most of these surfaces ( in planform view) are similar to
> trapezoids, parallelograms, or other irregular surfaces. More importantly
> however most of these shapes have sides which are never parallel to an X or
> Z axis and are often deviant in both axis (or diagonal). The rotation angle
> for these surface are 99% of the time on the diagonal.  So how do I deal
> with this in Maya vs Softimage?
>
>
>
> Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom rotations to
> set up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to rotate
> the surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the right one,
> select and rotate it just to rotate the surface.
>
>
>
> Soft:I select Center, rotate it to the angle I need, select the object
> and rotate.
>
>
>
>
>
> If I have to change the pivot after the fact:
>
>
>
> Maya:   I have to deconstruct part of the hierarchy, rotate the null
> responsible for the rotation angle, and then reconnect the hierarchy so
> that Maya will not adversely rotate the objects underneath the rotation
> angle.
>
>
>
> Soft:  I  select the Center and rotate.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>
> Mymic Technical Services
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Brent McPherson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 02, 2014 4:56 AM
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>
>
>
> So, do you folks really use Center mode all that much?
>
>
>
> That was really a pre-pivot workflow that XSI inherited from SI|3D and it
> simply applies a transform to the object and a mirror transform to the
> geometry thereby giving the *illusion* that that center has changed. Of
> course, reset transforms will mess up the center. (unless you also set the
> neutral  pose)
>
>
>
> As someone who worked on that area in SI I'm really curious to know what
> the  main use cases for Center are?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Brent
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
> mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]
> *On Behalf Of *John Richard Sanchez
> *Sent:* 27 March 2014 16:38
> *To:* XSI List to post
> *Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
>
>
> So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how
> to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you
> can just move it. WTF
>
>
>
>
>

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

All the time. Say I have an aileron, flap or other control surface on an 
aircraft. Most of these surfaces ( in planform view) are similar to trapezoids, 
parallelograms, or other irregular surfaces. More importantly however most of 
these shapes have sides which are never parallel to an X or Z axis and are 
often deviant in both axis (or diagonal). The rotation angle for these surface 
are 99% of the time on the diagonal.  So how do I deal with this in Maya vs 
Softimage?

Maya:   I have to create a  set of multiple nulls with custom rotations to set 
up the angle of rotation properly for the surface. If I want to rotate the 
surface I have to dig through all these nulls to get to the right one, select 
and rotate it just to rotate the surface.


Soft:I select Center, rotate it to the angle I need, select the object and 
rotate.


If I have to change the pivot after the fact:

Maya:   I have to deconstruct part of the hierarchy, rotate the null 
responsible for the rotation angle, and then reconnect the hierarchy so that 
Maya will not adversely rotate the objects underneath the rotation angle.

Soft:  I  select the Center and rotate.

--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Brent McPherson
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 4:56 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

So, do you folks really use Center mode all that much?

That was really a pre-pivot workflow that XSI inherited from SI|3D and it 
simply applies a transform to the object and a mirror transform to the geometry 
thereby giving the *illusion* that that center has changed. Of course, reset 
transforms will mess up the center. (unless you also set the neutral  pose)

As someone who worked on that area in SI I'm really curious to know what the  
main use cases for Center are?

Thanks.
--
Brent

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: 27 March 2014 16:38
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how to 
rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you can 
just move it. WTF

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Peter Agg]

I think the key thing with something like this is that Centre mode isn't
something that's used for a specific, single problem - say you implemented
a 'Match Centre to Object' button in Maya, that would only solve that
single workflow I mentioned earlier.

Having the Centre mode work the way it does in Soft, I know I can carry on
working the same way I would normally - I can Match Transforms (Maya really
needs this as well, btw :) ), use constraints or whatever I feel like and
the Centre mode toggle handles it all behind the scenes. It's a far more
elegant way of adding functionality than throwing more buttons and tools at
each individual problem.

On the flip side there's Child Compensation in Soft, which is really nice
and everything, but doesn't work with Match Transforms, which turns a
useful tool into something very frustrating. Keeping things consistent is
key with this kind of working.

Anyway, I'm sure you're fully aware of all this, Brent. But better to say
it than to not.



On 2 April 2014 11:50, Rob Wuijster  wrote:

>  'center to vertices' command, just another way to quicly change the
> center of an object.
> And using the TAB key for quickly moving the pivot around for snapping,
> moving stuff around is a no-brainer.
> Things I use a lot on a daily basis..
>
>  Rob
>
> \/-\/\/
>
> On 2-4-2014 12:38, Eric Thivierge wrote:
>
> Yeah that is something that I do very often as well.
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4355 / Virus Database: 3722/7284 - Release Date: 04/01/14
>
>
>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Rob Wuijster]

'center to vertices' command, just another way to quicly change the 
center of an object.
And using the TAB key for quickly moving the pivot around for snapping, 
moving stuff around is a no-brainer.

Things I use a lot on a daily basis..

Rob

\/-\/\/

On 2-4-2014 12:38, Eric Thivierge wrote:


Yeah that is something that I do very often as well.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 2014.0.4355 / Virus Database: 3722/7284 - Release Date: 04/01/14

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Eric Thivierge]

Yeah that is something that I do very often as well.

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Peter Agg]

No problem - it's always hard to answer these questions when all these
things have been so deeply ingrained into your work patterns. :)




On 2 April 2014 10:33, Brent McPherson  wrote:

> Thanks. That is an interesting use of center I hadn't thought of before...
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
> Sent: 02 April 2014 10:19
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)
>
> I'm not 100% sure what you mean by what 'the main case uses are' - I just
> use it to do exactly what it says it does! It's just a flexible and
> intuative way of working.
>
> For example: if I've made a rig control that floats outside some geometry,
> but I want it's pivot to match an object I have in the rig already (maybe a
> bone it's meant to control... something like that). I can make and shape
> the control curve how I like, turn on Centre mode, do a Match Transforms to
> that object and hit Freeze. Very quick and very easy to do.
>
> On 2 April 2014 09:55, Brent McPherson  <mailto:brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com>> wrote:
> So, do you folks really use Center mode all that much?
>
> That was really a pre-pivot workflow that XSI inherited from SI|3D and it
> simply applies a transform to the object and a mirror transform to the
> geometry thereby giving the *illusion* that that center has changed. Of
> course, reset transforms will mess up the center. (unless you also set the
> neutral  pose)
>
> As someone who worked on that area in SI I'm really curious to know what
> the  main use cases for Center are?
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Brent
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of John Richard
> Sanchez
> Sent: 27 March 2014 16:38
> To: XSI List to post
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
> So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how
> to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you
> can just move it. WTF
>
>
>

RE: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Brent McPherson]

Thanks. That is an interesting use of center I hadn't thought of before...

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
Sent: 02 April 2014 10:19
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by what 'the main case uses are' - I just use 
it to do exactly what it says it does! It's just a flexible and intuative way 
of working.

For example: if I've made a rig control that floats outside some geometry, but 
I want it's pivot to match an object I have in the rig already (maybe a bone 
it's meant to control... something like that). I can make and shape the control 
curve how I like, turn on Centre mode, do a Match Transforms to that object and 
hit Freeze. Very quick and very easy to do.

On 2 April 2014 09:55, Brent McPherson 
mailto:brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com>> wrote:
So, do you folks really use Center mode all that much?

That was really a pre-pivot workflow that XSI inherited from SI|3D and it 
simply applies a transform to the object and a mirror transform to the geometry 
thereby giving the *illusion* that that center has changed. Of course, reset 
transforms will mess up the center. (unless you also set the neutral  pose)

As someone who worked on that area in SI I'm really curious to know what the  
main use cases for Center are?

Thanks.
--
Brent

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of John Richard Sanchez
Sent: 27 March 2014 16:38
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how to 
rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you can 
just move it. WTF


<>

Re: Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Peter Agg]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by what 'the main case uses are' - I just
use it to do exactly what it says it does! It's just a flexible and
intuative way of working.

For example: if I've made a rig control that floats outside some geometry,
but I want it's pivot to match an object I have in the rig already (maybe a
bone it's meant to control... something like that). I can make and shape
the control curve how I like, turn on Centre mode, do a Match Transforms to
that object and hit Freeze. Very quick and very easy to do.


On 2 April 2014 09:55, Brent McPherson  wrote:

> So, do you folks really use Center mode all that much?
>
> That was really a pre-pivot workflow that XSI inherited from SI|3D and it
> simply applies a transform to the object and a mirror transform to the
> geometry thereby giving the *illusion* that that center has changed. Of
> course, reset transforms will mess up the center. (unless you also set the
> neutral  pose)
>
> As someone who worked on that area in SI I'm really curious to know what
> the  main use cases for Center are?
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Brent
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard Sanchez
> Sent: 27 March 2014 16:38
> To: XSI List to post
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
> So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how
> to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you
> can just move it. WTF
>
>
>

Center mode (was RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5)

[Brent McPherson]

So, do you folks really use Center mode all that much?

That was really a pre-pivot workflow that XSI inherited from SI|3D and it 
simply applies a transform to the object and a mirror transform to the geometry 
thereby giving the *illusion* that that center has changed. Of course, reset 
transforms will mess up the center. (unless you also set the neutral  pose)

As someone who worked on that area in SI I'm really curious to know what the  
main use cases for Center are?

Thanks.
--
Brent

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: 27 March 2014 16:38
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how to 
rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you can 
just move it. WTF


<>

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Martin Yara]

command - the most recent.  That's
>>> important.  Users here have a mentality burned into their skulls from those
>>> other software that they have to make
>>> lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars to get anything done.
>>>  Introducing something like a MMB is a revelation as it's both simple and
>>> powerful.
>>>
>>> What should also be conveyed is that when artists feel like they
>>> have to make lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars, they often tend to
>>> start dabbling in scripting to make
>>> those customizations.  Artist code tends to be a frequent cause of
>>> fires I have to exterminate and generally a waste of my time as a TD.  If
>>> artists have these nice UI workflow
>>> touches such as MMB to repeat, they're less inclined to write crappy
>>> code which means fewer fires to fight and more focus on productivity not
>>> only for the artists, but also for
>>> me as it allows me to spend more time focusing on writing tools
>>> which can provide bigger impact than quickie buttons.
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:25 PM
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind 
>>> wrote:
>>>  > Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.
>>>  It's popular.  They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate
>>> tear off menus, but given the choice
>>> they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom toolbar as 2nd
>>> option, and tear off menu as last option.  The issue being that tear off
>>> menus don't allow for customized menus.
>>> You only get the existing menu structure in a different place.
>>>  >
>>>  > What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to execute
>>> commands or a series of commands.  Tear off menus are good for situations
>>> where the entire menu is a custom
>>> menu of commands like a custom toolbar would be, and the commands in
>>> that menu are very closely related to the task at hand.  If the menu is
>>> full of built-in commands, they're
>>> less liked because usually the user only cares about one or two
>>> tools in the menu but is stuck having to take all of them as part of the
>>> package deal resulting in clutter.  For
>>> example, go to the property menu and you have entries for
>>> visibility, display, etc..., but also a lot of unrelated tools such as
>>> rendermap or gator.  It's a very tall menu but
>>> the user only wants 3 or 4 items out of 30.  If tear off menus
>>> allowed individual items to be torn off and merged into a toolbar, then
>>> that would be ideal.
>>>  >
>>>  > Implementing MMB to repeat a command in a menu would be a popular
>>> move.
>>>
>>> that's OK, but that's in Softimage.  The bit that's not obvious is
>>> whether someone using Maya needs a MMB, that's what my post is meant to be
>>> about.
>>> In Maya, you can even hold shift+ctrl while selecting a menu to make
>>> it a button the shelf.  (Doing the same thing in Softimage would be a
>>> pain) You'll be working differently, have different reflexes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Tim Leydecker]

After brooding about MMB vs. M key for a day or two.

I just realized that I use Softimage´s beveling a lot. But differently.

When adding an edgeloop or edges in general, I will usually resort
to beveling that selection instead of just adding an edge loop.

Beveling gives better curvature, averaging the postion of the now
two egde (loops) nicely in relation to the selected edges and it´s
neighbours. It is convenient to adjust the bevel width slider and
interactively tune the result to taste. For that, I often use bevel
settings wider than 2.

The benefit is that the polygon surface´s curvature doesn´t get as
unevenly modified and it becomes easier to add detail or even out
topology in wip basemeshes/cleaned up meshes.

Together with the option to slide components across the surface and
the phletora of transformation modes (REF, Global, etc) this makes
clean organic modeling a lot easier.

Cheers,

tim

On 27.03.2014 07:48, Tim Leydecker wrote:

Can I trade the MMB functionality against the "M" key workflow?

Personally, I don´t use MMB much because when modeling, I will usually
resort to using either the "M" key or rick-clicking to access polygon 
operations.

Sliding a component (selection) around on a polygon surface is a wonderful 
feature
in Softimage.

I would say that using a combination of variations of the M key settings, add 
edge,
and extrude is covering 65% of my work for modeling, with a Split Edge (with 
split control)
here and there. I tend to model my bevels due to legacy shortcomings in tools.

A good 15% is the ease of using "U"/"T"/"E" with raycast perference options 
that prevent
selecting unwanted (backfaced) areas.

10% is viewport interaction. Tumbling around and view modes.

10% is unfold3d. (It´s a lot more this brings but it´s become so easy :-)

Using wheighting edges in subD models I refuse to use until it is consistenly 
supported
in something as reliable as a blank *.obj format in any other app available.

There´s no point in wheighting a (subD style) edge hardness when you realize 
you can´t import/export it anywhere
like that.

Cheers,

tim

P.S: Merging vertices in Maya is nicer, with it´s treshhold options.



On 27.03.2014 00:45, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:

We are keeping MMB Repeat under consideration for Maya, thanks all for the 
feedback.

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Matt Lind mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:

I fully understood what your post was about, Luc-Eric.

What I stated is what many users here liked MMB upon learning about it as, 
other than myself and one other person, nobody had used Softimage before.  They 
had all come from
3DSMax and/or Maya.  Many of them have commented they wish the MMB feature 
was in Maya as it's simple, intuitive, and saves repetitive work freeing up a 
spot or two on the
keyboard for something else.  While you can use 'g' in Maya, it's not the 
same as MMB in the menus as each menu can have its own history remembering a 
different command whereas
'g' can only remember one command - the most recent.  That's important.  
Users here have a mentality burned into their skulls from those other software 
that they have to make
lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars to get anything done.  Introducing 
something like a MMB is a revelation as it's both simple and powerful.

What should also be conveyed is that when artists feel like they have to 
make lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars, they often tend to start dabbling 
in scripting to make
those customizations.  Artist code tends to be a frequent cause of fires I 
have to exterminate and generally a waste of my time as a TD.  If artists have 
these nice UI workflow
touches such as MMB to repeat, they're less inclined to write crappy code 
which means fewer fires to fight and more focus on productivity not only for 
the artists, but also for
me as it allows me to spend more time focusing on writing tools which can 
provide bigger impact than quickie buttons.


Matt




-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
    Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:25 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind  wrote:
 > Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.  It's 
popular.  They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate tear off menus, 
but given the choice
they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom toolbar as 2nd option, and 
tear off menu as last option.  The issue being that tear off menus don't allow 
for customized menus.
You only get the existing menu structure in a different place.
 >
 > What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to exe

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Ed Manning]

On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Eric Thivierge wrote:

> Your first problem is that you're using a Mac. :P
>
>
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:53:52 AM, Ed Manning wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Cristobal Infante > > wrote:
>>
>> I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any
>> scripts. Just press "insert" and the you get a small blue widget
>> to rotate the pivot from.
>>
>>
>> So for Maya on Mac OC you're SOL?
>>
>
No kidding. that's why I've brought in my own workstation running Windows.
 And Softimage.

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Ed Manning  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Cristobal Infante  wrote:
>>
>> I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any scripts. Just
>> press "insert" and the you get a small blue widget to rotate the pivot from.
>
>
> So for Maya on Mac OC you're SOL?

Can we have a little more faith here?  :P

On the Mac, pivot manipulation is on the Home key.  On a mac laptop
keyboard, the home key is FN+left arrow

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Eric Thivierge]

Your first problem is that you're using a Mac. :P

On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:53:52 AM, Ed Manning wrote:

On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Cristobal Infante mailto:cgc...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any
scripts. Just press "insert" and the you get a small blue widget
to rotate the pivot from.


So for Maya on Mac OC you're SOL?

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[John Richard Sanchez]

Exactly martin. DOES not matter if you are on PC/ Mac/ Linux/ SGI/ etc
Maya just sucks.The best you can do is hit a y button and go to local
rotation axis and change in attribute editor. BUT good luck trying to make
an object center move AND rotate the way you want.


On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Martin Yara  wrote:

> Maya has 3 pivots that are not synchronized.
>
> With insert or keep pressing D you can rotate the translation one and the
> scale one (separately), and with the ? mark you can rotate the rotation one.
>
> Inside the Translation and Scale tool you have a "Custom axis
> orientation", this is your pivot orientation. So these 2 pivots are tool
> based.
>
> For Rotation you have the Rotate Axis in the Attribute Editor of the
> object.
>
> Now you want all 3 to have the same angle ? good luck.
>
> And pivots in Maya are not the same as Centers in SI, but more like SI
> pivots. To be honest I don't know exactly how to use SI pivot rotation
> values.
>
> The Parent workaround is to rotate the object "Center". I don't think Maya
> uses this concept or terminology, does it? and I don't know any way to
> manipulate directly the object center either.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:43 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>>  That's probably not the rotate pivot. Hit the E key to display the
>> Rotate tool and my guess will be that you will see that the Rotate
>> orientation is unchanged. This should be reflected in the Channel editor as
>> well.
>>
>>
>>
>> This appears to be a reorientation of the manipulator, not the object's
>> rotate pivot. What the original poster was asking for was the ability to
>> alter Orientation(the angle of the object's centre) without altering the
>> position/orientation of the object's geometry relative to world space. In
>> other words he wants to do what he can do in Soft, which is to select the
>> center and simply rotate it and see an inverse rotation occur to the
>> geometry when they return to Object.
>>
>>
>>
>> In Maya this appears to be a tool to assist in manipulator behavior, but
>> does not appear to affect the actual rotate pivot. For example If you hit
>> key W(Translate) or key R(Scale) then hit the Insert key you will see the
>> blue switch icon appear. When you hit the icon it changes the manipulator
>> to a rotation manipulator but is only affecting the Translate pivot. Same
>> with Scale and scale pivot. But if you hit E(Rotate) and try hitting
>> insert, it will convert to the Rotate Pivot but give you no switch to
>> rotate the Rotate Pivot.
>>
>>
>>
>> To make matters worse in 2014 there is a new feature in the Modeling
>> Toolkit which claims to allow pivot adjustments through the MTK transform
>> options. But this only looks to permit adjustments  to a secondary custom
>> "component manipulator" which is only available through the Modeling
>> Toolkit. Once you exit the Modeling toolkit none of the adjustments appear
>> to be carried back to the pivot point, rotate pivot or scale pivot.
>> However, when returning to the MTK it does appear to remember those
>> adjustments made within the MTK. Mind you these are only component pivots
>> apparently being adjusted here, not the object pivot which is what the
>> original posting was about.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joey Ponthieux
>>
>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>>
>> Mymic Technical Services
>>
>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>
>> __
>>
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Cristobal Infante
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 8:43 AM
>>
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> *Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>>
>>
>>
>> I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any scripts. Just
>> press "insert" and the you get a small blue widget to rotate the pivot from.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 March 2014 09:13, Gaël Honorez  wrote:
>>
>> Kind of the same topic, Maya is the only software we are using that can't
>> read EXR file natively (it requires a plugin), and even more dramatic, a
>> plugin you hav

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Martin Yara]

Maya has 3 pivots that are not synchronized.

With insert or keep pressing D you can rotate the translation one and the
scale one (separately), and with the ? mark you can rotate the rotation one.

Inside the Translation and Scale tool you have a "Custom axis orientation",
this is your pivot orientation. So these 2 pivots are tool based.

For Rotation you have the Rotate Axis in the Attribute Editor of the object.

Now you want all 3 to have the same angle ? good luck.

And pivots in Maya are not the same as Centers in SI, but more like SI
pivots. To be honest I don't know exactly how to use SI pivot rotation
values.

The Parent workaround is to rotate the object "Center". I don't think Maya
uses this concept or terminology, does it? and I don't know any way to
manipulate directly the object center either.


Martin


On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:43 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:

>  That's probably not the rotate pivot. Hit the E key to display the
> Rotate tool and my guess will be that you will see that the Rotate
> orientation is unchanged. This should be reflected in the Channel editor as
> well.
>
>
>
> This appears to be a reorientation of the manipulator, not the object's
> rotate pivot. What the original poster was asking for was the ability to
> alter Orientation(the angle of the object's centre) without altering the
> position/orientation of the object's geometry relative to world space. In
> other words he wants to do what he can do in Soft, which is to select the
> center and simply rotate it and see an inverse rotation occur to the
> geometry when they return to Object.
>
>
>
> In Maya this appears to be a tool to assist in manipulator behavior, but
> does not appear to affect the actual rotate pivot. For example If you hit
> key W(Translate) or key R(Scale) then hit the Insert key you will see the
> blue switch icon appear. When you hit the icon it changes the manipulator
> to a rotation manipulator but is only affecting the Translate pivot. Same
> with Scale and scale pivot. But if you hit E(Rotate) and try hitting
> insert, it will convert to the Rotate Pivot but give you no switch to
> rotate the Rotate Pivot.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse in 2014 there is a new feature in the Modeling
> Toolkit which claims to allow pivot adjustments through the MTK transform
> options. But this only looks to permit adjustments  to a secondary custom
> "component manipulator" which is only available through the Modeling
> Toolkit. Once you exit the Modeling toolkit none of the adjustments appear
> to be carried back to the pivot point, rotate pivot or scale pivot.
> However, when returning to the MTK it does appear to remember those
> adjustments made within the MTK. Mind you these are only component pivots
> apparently being adjusted here, not the object pivot which is what the
> original posting was about.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>
> Mymic Technical Services
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Cristobal Infante
> *Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 8:43 AM
>
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
>
>
> I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any scripts. Just
> press "insert" and the you get a small blue widget to rotate the pivot from.
>
>
>
> On 28 March 2014 09:13, Gaël Honorez  wrote:
>
> Kind of the same topic, Maya is the only software we are using that can't
> read EXR file natively (it requires a plugin), and even more dramatic, a
> plugin you have to modify & compile so they are read correctly (linear ->
> sRGB).
>
>
>
> On 27/03/2014 19:53, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] wrote:
>
>  It goes back to the late 90s actually. Everyone migrating from TAV
> didn't really have a sense for this being something they should have. New
> users we're just without reference. Everyone else who knew better wrote MEL
> scripts to compensate for the shortcomings.
>
>
>
> The weird thing is that the term "rotate pivot" to us is an action. To
> Maya users it is a thing, a noun if you will. A separate pivot.
>
>
>
> To make matters even weirder, it appears you can alter the rotation of the
> translation manipulator and scale mani

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

That's probably not the rotate pivot. Hit the E key to display the Rotate tool 
and my guess will be that you will see that the Rotate orientation is 
unchanged. This should be reflected in the Channel editor as well.

This appears to be a reorientation of the manipulator, not the object's rotate 
pivot. What the original poster was asking for was the ability to alter 
Orientation(the angle of the object's centre) without altering the 
position/orientation of the object's geometry relative to world space. In other 
words he wants to do what he can do in Soft, which is to select the center and 
simply rotate it and see an inverse rotation occur to the geometry when they 
return to Object.

In Maya this appears to be a tool to assist in manipulator behavior, but does 
not appear to affect the actual rotate pivot. For example If you hit key 
W(Translate) or key R(Scale) then hit the Insert key you will see the blue 
switch icon appear. When you hit the icon it changes the manipulator to a 
rotation manipulator but is only affecting the Translate pivot. Same with Scale 
and scale pivot. But if you hit E(Rotate) and try hitting insert, it will 
convert to the Rotate Pivot but give you no switch to rotate the Rotate Pivot.

To make matters worse in 2014 there is a new feature in the Modeling Toolkit 
which claims to allow pivot adjustments through the MTK transform options. But 
this only looks to permit adjustments  to a secondary custom "component 
manipulator" which is only available through the Modeling Toolkit. Once you 
exit the Modeling toolkit none of the adjustments appear to be carried back to 
the pivot point, rotate pivot or scale pivot. However, when returning to the 
MTK it does appear to remember those adjustments made within the MTK. Mind you 
these are only component pivots apparently being adjusted here, not the object 
pivot which is what the original posting was about.


--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal Infante
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 8:43 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any scripts. Just press 
"insert" and the you get a small blue widget to rotate the pivot from.

On 28 March 2014 09:13, Gaël Honorez mailto:g...@nozon.com>> 
wrote:
Kind of the same topic, Maya is the only software we are using that can't read 
EXR file natively (it requires a plugin), and even more dramatic, a plugin you 
have to modify & compile so they are read correctly (linear -> sRGB).


On 27/03/2014 19:53, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] wrote:
It goes back to the late 90s actually. Everyone migrating from TAV didn't 
really have a sense for this being something they should have. New users we're 
just without reference. Everyone else who knew better wrote MEL scripts to 
compensate for the shortcomings.

The weird thing is that the term "rotate pivot" to us is an action. To Maya 
users it is a thing, a noun if you will. A separate pivot.

To make matters even weirder, it appears you can alter the rotation of the 
translation manipulator and scale manipulator through the pivot tool, but it 
only affects the way that translation and scale works through their pivots, not 
the rotate pivot itself. For example, select an object, select translate 
manipulator, hit the insert key, look for the cyan keyhole icon on the screen. 
Clicking on this will allow you to rotate the translate pivot, but not the 
rotate pivot. Same with scale.

This action looks to be affecting only the manipulator, as all new objects get 
the same adjusted manipulator orientation.


--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:34 PM
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

oh and try to search rotate pivot in the docs. Good Luck trying to find a way 
to do it! I had to go to the forums and I see complaints about this from Maya 
users going back to 2006. I really want to curse on here. #$%^^^&&^

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Martin 
mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
yeah, afaik y

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Eric Thivierge]

Is it an actual workstation or a laptop workstation? If it's the actual 
workstation, did you have to strap it to a mule and walk it through the 
subways? haha


On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:40 AM, Ed Manning wrote:



No kidding. that's why I've brought in my own workstation running
Windows.  And Softimage.

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Ed Manning]

On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Cristobal Infante  wrote:

> I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any scripts. Just
> press "insert" and the you get a small blue widget to rotate the pivot from.
>

So for Maya on Mac OC you're SOL?

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Cristobal Infante]

I've just tried it and you can rotate the pivot without any scripts. Just
press "insert" and the you get a small blue widget to rotate the pivot from.


On 28 March 2014 09:13, Gaël Honorez  wrote:

>  Kind of the same topic, Maya is the only software we are using that
> can't read EXR file natively (it requires a plugin), and even more
> dramatic, a plugin you have to modify & compile so they are read correctly
> (linear -> sRGB).
>
>
> On 27/03/2014 19:53, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] wrote:
>
>  It goes back to the late 90s actually. Everyone migrating from TAV
> didn't really have a sense for this being something they should have. New
> users we're just without reference. Everyone else who knew better wrote MEL
> scripts to compensate for the shortcomings.
>
>
>
> The weird thing is that the term "rotate pivot" to us is an action. To
> Maya users it is a thing, a noun if you will. A separate pivot.
>
>
>
> To make matters even weirder, it appears you can alter the rotation of the
> translation manipulator and scale manipulator through the pivot tool, but
> it only affects the way that translation and scale works through their
> pivots, not the rotate pivot itself. For example, select an object, select
> translate manipulator, hit the insert key, look for the cyan keyhole icon
> on the screen. Clicking on this will allow you to rotate the translate
> pivot, but not the rotate pivot. Same with scale.
>
>
>
> This action looks to be affecting only the manipulator, as all new objects
> get the same adjusted manipulator orientation.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>
> Mymic Technical Services
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
> mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]
> *On Behalf Of *John Richard Sanchez
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:34 PM
> *To:* XSI List to post
> *Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
>
>
> oh and try to search rotate pivot in the docs. Good Luck trying to find a
> way to do it! I had to go to the forums and I see complaints about this
> from Maya users going back to 2006. I really want to curse on here.
> #$%^^^&&^
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Martin  wrote:
>
> yeah, afaik you can only rotate the rotation axis of your rotation pivot.
>
> Martin
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 2014/03/28, at 2:31, John Richard Sanchez 
> wrote:
>
>  Yes I did it finally. But I mean seriously I have to go through all that
> to rotate a center This is what we are talking about. Poor poor Maya
> users. :(
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
> Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.
>
>
>
> Set the null's rotation to the rotation that you want the object's pivot
> to be.
>
>
>
> Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop the
> object on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.
>
>
>
> Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null, and not
> the null.
>
>
>
> Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the Freeze
> Rotate is selected in the option box)
>
>
>
> Execute Edit->Unparent
>
>
>
> The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may also have
> some transformGeometry history as well if you had construction history
> turned on.
>
>
>
> Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>
> Mymic Technical Services
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *John Richard
> Sanchez
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
> *To:* XSI List to post
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
>
>
> So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how
> to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center 

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Gaël Honorez]

Kind of the same topic, Maya is the only software we are using that 
can't read EXR file natively (it requires a plugin), and even more 
dramatic, a plugin you have to modify & compile so they are read 
correctly (linear -> sRGB).


On 27/03/2014 19:53, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] wrote:


It goes back to the late 90s actually. Everyone migrating from TAV 
didn't really have a sense for this being something they should have. 
New users we're just without reference. Everyone else who knew better 
wrote MEL scripts to compensate for the shortcomings.


The weird thing is that the term "rotate pivot" to us is an action. To 
Maya users it is a thing, a noun if you will. A separate pivot.


To make matters even weirder, it appears you can alter the rotation of 
the translation manipulator and scale manipulator through the pivot 
tool, but it only affects the way that translation and scale works 
through their pivots, not the rotate pivot itself. For example, select 
an object, select translate manipulator, hit the insert key, look for 
the cyan keyhole icon on the screen. Clicking on this will allow you 
to rotate the translate pivot, but not the rotate pivot. Same with scale.


This action looks to be affecting only the manipulator, as all new 
objects get the same adjusted manipulator orientation.


--

Joey Ponthieux

LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)

Mymic Technical Services

NASA Langley Research Center

__

Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not

represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *John 
Richard Sanchez

*Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:34 PM
*To:* XSI List to post
*Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

oh and try to search rotate pivot in the docs. Good Luck trying to 
find a way to do it! I had to go to the forums and I see complaints 
about this from Maya users going back to 2006. I really want to curse 
on here. #$%^^^&&^


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Martin <mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:


yeah, afaik you can only rotate the rotation axis of your rotation pivot.

Martin

Sent from my iPhone


On 2014/03/28, at 2:31, John Richard Sanchez <mailto:youngupstar...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Yes I did it finally. But I mean seriously I have to go through
all that to rotate a center This is what we are talking about.
Poor poor Maya users. :(

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G.
(LARC-E1A)[LITES] mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote:

Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.

Set the null's rotation to the rotation that you want the object's
pivot to be.

Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop
the object on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.

Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null,
and not the null.

Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the
Freeze Rotate is selected in the option box)

Execute Edit->Unparent

The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may
also have some transformGeometry history as well if you had
construction history turned on.

Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.

--

Joey Ponthieux

LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)

Mymic Technical Services

NASA Langley Research Center

__

Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not

represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of
*John Richard Sanchez
*Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
*To:* XSI List to post


*Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure
out how to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a
center in Maya you can just move it. WTF

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg
mailto:peter@googlemail.com>> wrote:

Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my
selection is also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling
visibility become a bit of a pain (of course the lack of a
visibility toggle doesn't help in the first place).

On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson
mailto:brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com>> wrote:

True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard
layouts and it always makes sense to 

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Siew Yi Liang]

Hi John:

I wrote a really quick hack to handle this previously, using a temporary 
constraint and then adjusting the rotateAxis attribute to handle the 
offset to bring it back into position:


http://pastebin.com/QbEkGcJJ

Using it, you can match the pivot from the 2nd selected object to the 1st.

Hope it helps!

Yours sincerely,
Siew Yi Liang

On 3/27/2014 11:33 AM, John Richard Sanchez wrote:
oh and try to search rotate pivot in the docs. Good Luck trying to 
find a way to do it! I had to go to the forums and I see complaints 
about this from Maya users going back to 2006. I really want to curse 
on here. #$%^^^&&^



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Martin <mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:


yeah, afaik you can only rotate the rotation axis of your rotation
pivot.

Martin
Sent from my iPhone

On 2014/03/28, at 2:31, John Richard Sanchez
mailto:youngupstar...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Yes I did it finally. But I mean seriously I have to go through
all that to rotate a center This is what we are talking
about. Poor poor Maya users. :(


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G.
(LARC-E1A)[LITES] mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote:

Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.

Set the null's rotation to the rotation that you want the
object's pivot to be.

Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and
drop the object on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.

Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the
null, and not the null.

Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least
the Freeze Rotate is selected in the option box)

Execute Edit->Unparent

The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It
may also have some transformGeometry history as well if you
had construction history turned on.

Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.

--

Joey Ponthieux

LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)

Mymic Technical Services

NASA Langley Research Center

__

Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and
do not

represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf
Of *John Richard Sanchez
*Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
    *To:* XSI List to post


*Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to
figure out how to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you
cant rotate a center in Maya you can just move it. WTF

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg
mailto:peter@googlemail.com>>
wrote:

Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for
removing my selection is also fairly annoying - simple things
like toggling visibility become a bit of a pain (of course
the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't help in the first place).

On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson
mailto:brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com>> wrote:

True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard
layouts and it always makes sense to do some basic personal
customization for international keyboards...

P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where
back-tick normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the
Hawking key for lack of a better name. ;-)

http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards

--
Brent


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf
Of Martin Yara

Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close
to Softimage but without the non destructive workflow (edit
topology without breaking your weights) which is a huge
difference but still modeling is better than a few years ago.

Thanks Brent for those tips !
I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard
though. I can't find the japanese equivalent.

Martin

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 a

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

It goes back to the late 90s actually. Everyone migrating from TAV didn't 
really have a sense for this being something they should have. New users we're 
just without reference. Everyone else who knew better wrote MEL scripts to 
compensate for the shortcomings.

The weird thing is that the term "rotate pivot" to us is an action. To Maya 
users it is a thing, a noun if you will. A separate pivot.

To make matters even weirder, it appears you can alter the rotation of the 
translation manipulator and scale manipulator through the pivot tool, but it 
only affects the way that translation and scale works through their pivots, not 
the rotate pivot itself. For example, select an object, select translate 
manipulator, hit the insert key, look for the cyan keyhole icon on the screen. 
Clicking on this will allow you to rotate the translate pivot, but not the 
rotate pivot. Same with scale.

This action looks to be affecting only the manipulator, as all new objects get 
the same adjusted manipulator orientation.


--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:34 PM
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

oh and try to search rotate pivot in the docs. Good Luck trying to find a way 
to do it! I had to go to the forums and I see complaints about this from Maya 
users going back to 2006. I really want to curse on here. #$%^^^&&^

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Martin 
mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
yeah, afaik you can only rotate the rotation axis of your rotation pivot.

Martin
Sent from my iPhone

On 2014/03/28, at 2:31, John Richard Sanchez 
mailto:youngupstar...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yes I did it finally. But I mean seriously I have to go through all that to 
rotate a center This is what we are talking about. Poor poor Maya users. :(

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] 
mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov>> wrote:
Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.

Set the null's rotation to the rotation that you want the object's pivot to be.

Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop the object 
on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.

Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null, and not the 
null.

Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the Freeze Rotate is 
selected in the option box)

Execute Edit->Unparent

The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may also have some 
transformGeometry history as well if you had construction history turned on.

Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.


--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of John Richard Sanchez
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
To: XSI List to post

Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how to 
rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you can 
just move it. WTF

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg 
mailto:peter@googlemail.com>> wrote:
Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my selection is 
also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility become a bit of a 
pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't help in the first 
place).

On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson 
mailto:brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com>> wrote:
True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and it 
always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for international 
keyboards...

P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick 
normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a 
better name. ;-)

http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
--
Brent


From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 27 

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[John Richard Sanchez]

oh and try to search rotate pivot in the docs. Good Luck trying to find a
way to do it! I had to go to the forums and I see complaints about this
from Maya users going back to 2006. I really want to curse on here.
#$%^^^&&^


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Martin  wrote:

> yeah, afaik you can only rotate the rotation axis of your rotation pivot.
>
> Martin
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2014/03/28, at 2:31, John Richard Sanchez 
> wrote:
>
> Yes I did it finally. But I mean seriously I have to go through all that
> to rotate a center This is what we are talking about. Poor poor Maya
> users. :(
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>>  Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.
>>
>>
>>
>> Set the null's rotation to the rotation that you want the object's pivot
>> to be.
>>
>>
>>
>> Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop the
>> object on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.
>>
>>
>>
>> Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null, and not
>> the null.
>>
>>
>>
>> Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the Freeze
>> Rotate is selected in the option box)
>>
>>
>>
>> Execute Edit->Unparent
>>
>>
>>
>> The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may also have
>> some transformGeometry history as well if you had construction history
>> turned on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joey Ponthieux
>>
>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>>
>> Mymic Technical Services
>>
>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>
>> ______
>>
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *John Richard
>> Sanchez
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
>> *To:* XSI List to post
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>>
>>
>>
>> So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out
>> how to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya
>> you can just move it. WTF
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my
>> selection is also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility
>> become a bit of a pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't
>> help in the first place).
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and
>> it always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for
>> international keyboards...
>>
>> P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick
>> normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a
>> better name. ;-)
>>
>> http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
>>
>> --
>> Brent
>>
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>>
>> Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32
>>
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>>
>> Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage
>> but without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking
>> your weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than
>> a few years ago.
>>
>> Thanks Brent for those tips !
>> I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I
>> can't find the japanese equivalent.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara > furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to
>> Softimage Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the
>> last few years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to
>> Softimage (without the
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>
>


-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Martin]

yeah, afaik you can only rotate the rotation axis of your rotation pivot.

Martin
Sent from my iPhone

> On 2014/03/28, at 2:31, John Richard Sanchez  wrote:
> 
> Yes I did it finally. But I mean seriously I have to go through all that to 
> rotate a center This is what we are talking about. Poor poor Maya users. 
> :(
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] 
>>  wrote:
>> Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Set the null’s rotation to the rotation that you want the object’s pivot to 
>> be.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop the 
>> object on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null, and not 
>> the null.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the Freeze Rotate 
>> is selected in the option box)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Execute Edit->Unparent
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may also have 
>> some transformGeometry history as well if you had construction history 
>> turned on.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Joey Ponthieux
>> 
>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>> 
>> Mymic Technical Services
>> 
>> NASA Langley Research Center
>> 
>> __
>> 
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>> 
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
>> Sanchez
>> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
>> To: XSI List to post
>> 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>>  
>> 
>> So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how 
>> to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you 
>> can just move it. WTF
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg  wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my selection 
>> is also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility become a 
>> bit of a pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't help in the 
>> first place).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson  wrote:
>> 
>> True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and it 
>> always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for international 
>> keyboards...
>> 
>> P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick 
>> normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a 
>> better name. ;-)
>> 
>> http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
>> 
>> --
>> Brent
>> 
>> 
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>> 
>> Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32
>> 
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>> 
>> Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage 
>> but without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking 
>> your weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than a 
>> few years ago.
>> 
>> Thanks Brent for those tips !
>> I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I can't 
>> find the japanese equivalent.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara 
>> mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to Softimage 
>> Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the last few 
>> years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to Softimage 
>> (without the
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Andi Farhall]

All of a sudden I feel sorry for Maya users.. 

...
http://www.hackneyeffects.com/https://vimeo.com/user4174293http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21

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This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended 
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represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.If you are not the intended recipient of 
this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy 
or show it to anyone.Please contact the sender if you believe you have received 
this email in error.

From: j.ponthi...@nasa.gov
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:16:56 +









Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.
 
Set the null’s rotation to the rotation that you want the object’s pivot to be.
 
Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop the object 
on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.
 
Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null, and not the 
null.
 
Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the Freeze Rotate is 
selected in the option box)
 
Execute Edit->Unparent
 
The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may also have some 
transformGeometry history as well if you had construction history turned on.
 
Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.
 
 
--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not

represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
 



From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]
On Behalf Of John Richard Sanchez

Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM

To: XSI List to post

Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5


 

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how to 
rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you can 
just move it. WTF


 

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg  wrote:

Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my selection is 
also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility become a bit of a 
pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't help in the first 
place).




 

On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson  wrote:
True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and it 
always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for international 
keyboards...



P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick 
normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a 
better name. ;-)



http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards

--

Brent





From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf
 Of Martin Yara

Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32

To: 
softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5


Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage but 
without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking your 
weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling
 is better than a few years ago.



Thanks Brent for those tips !

I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I can't 
find the japanese equivalent.



Martin



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara 
mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to Softimage 
Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the last few years 
from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to Softimage (without the







 









-- 

www.johnrichardsanchez.com



  

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[John Richard Sanchez]

Yes I did it finally. But I mean seriously I have to go through all that to
rotate a center This is what we are talking about. Poor poor Maya
users. :(


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] <
j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:

>  Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.
>
>
>
> Set the null's rotation to the rotation that you want the object's pivot
> to be.
>
>
>
> Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop the
> object on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.
>
>
>
> Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null, and not
> the null.
>
>
>
> Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the Freeze
> Rotate is selected in the option box)
>
>
>
> Execute Edit->Unparent
>
>
>
> The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may also have
> some transformGeometry history as well if you had construction history
> turned on.
>
>
>
> Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
>
> Mymic Technical Services
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *John Richard
> Sanchez
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
> *To:* XSI List to post
>
> *Subject:* Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
>
>
> So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how
> to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you
> can just move it. WTF
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg 
> wrote:
>
> Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my
> selection is also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility
> become a bit of a pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't
> help in the first place).
>
>
>
> On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson 
> wrote:
>
> True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and
> it always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for
> international keyboards...
>
> P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick
> normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a
> better name. ;-)
>
> http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
>
> --
> Brent
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>
> Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32
>
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
> Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage
> but without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking
> your weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than
> a few years ago.
>
> Thanks Brent for those tips !
> I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I
> can't find the japanese equivalent.
>
> Martin
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara  furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to
> Softimage Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the
> last few years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to
> Softimage (without the
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>



-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

Create an empty group(null). Make sure it is still selected.

Set the null's rotation to the rotation that you want the object's pivot to be.

Make the object as a child to the null. Middle click drag and drop the object 
on the null in the outliner is the easiest way.

Open the new hierarchy and select only the object under the null, and not the 
null.

Execute Modify->Freeze Transformations( make sure at least the Freeze Rotate is 
selected in the option box)

Execute Edit->Unparent

The object will now have the pivot orientation you want. It may also have some 
transformGeometry history as well if you had construction history turned on.

Edit->Delete by Type->History if you want to get rid of it.


--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38 PM
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how to 
rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you can 
just move it. WTF

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg 
mailto:peter@googlemail.com>> wrote:
Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my selection is 
also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility become a bit of a 
pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't help in the first 
place).

On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson 
mailto:brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com>> wrote:
True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and it 
always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for international 
keyboards...

P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick 
normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a 
better name. ;-)

http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
--
Brent


From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage but 
without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking your 
weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than a few 
years ago.

Thanks Brent for those tips !
I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I can't 
find the japanese equivalent.

Martin
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara 
mailto:furik...@gmail.com><mailto:furik...@gmail.com<mailto:furik...@gmail.com>>>
 wrote:
Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to Softimage 
Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the last few years 
from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to Softimage (without the





--
www.johnrichardsanchez.com<http://www.johnrichardsanchez.com>

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[John Richard Sanchez]

So I got my first Maya job in years and here I am trying to figure out how
to rotate a Pivot ( center in xsi). No you cant rotate a center in Maya you
can just move it. WTF


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Peter Agg  wrote:

> Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my
> selection is also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility
> become a bit of a pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't
> help in the first place).
>
>
> On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson wrote:
>
>> True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and
>> it always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for
>> international keyboards...
>>
>> P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick
>> normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a
>> better name. ;-)
>>
>> http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
>> --
>> Brent
>>
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>> Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>>
>> Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage
>> but without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking
>> your weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than
>> a few years ago.
>>
>> Thanks Brent for those tips !
>> I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I
>> can't find the japanese equivalent.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara > furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to
>> Softimage Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the
>> last few years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to
>> Softimage (without the
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Peter Agg]

Oh, and another one for my list: Maya's propensity for removing my
selection is also fairly annoying - simple things like toggling visibility
become a bit of a pain (of course the lack of a visibility toggle doesn't
help in the first place).


On 27 March 2014 11:07, Brent McPherson wrote:

> True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and
> it always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for
> international keyboards...
>
> P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick
> normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a
> better name. ;-)
>
> http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
> --
> Brent
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
> Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
> Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage
> but without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking
> your weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than
> a few years ago.
>
> Thanks Brent for those tips !
> I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I
> can't find the japanese equivalent.
>
> Martin
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara  furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to
> Softimage Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the
> last few years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to
> Softimage (without the
>
>
>

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Brent McPherson]

True, that has always been a problem with US-centric keyboard layouts and it 
always makes sense to do some basic personal customization for international 
keyboards...

P.S. Apple keyboards in the UK have *spiral-galaxy* key where back-tick 
normally is!? I think I'll start calling it the Hawking key for lack of a 
better name. ;-)

http://markinns.com/articles/full/apple_keyboards
--
Brent


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 27 March 2014 10:32
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage but 
without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking your 
weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than a few 
years ago.

Thanks Brent for those tips !
I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I can't 
find the japanese equivalent.

Martin

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara 
mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to Softimage 
Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the last few years 
from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to Softimage (without the


<>

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Peter Agg]

A couple of things form someone making the transition:

1. The script editor dumping my script once its been run is very painful
2. This might just be a linux thing - but if I have, say, a muscle weights
menu open, I have to select something in the viewport before I can adjust
brush size etc
3. Not every impressed by the muscle weight paint tools so far - I can't
work out a way to easily see the selected muscle through the mesh while
painting and not being able to see the weights in XSI's 'everything in all
the colours' style - would be good to have a similar option. On first
glance the skinning tools are a bit nicer, at least.
4. Easily locking and tearing off channel boxes and attribute tabs would be
immensely handy - I'm very used to having the mute envelope box around (for
example), or being able to easily compare two object's attributes.

I know the voxel weighting is coming in 2015, fingers crossed that the
weight painting process is improved as well (not that Soft's couldn't have
had extensive work done to it either, of course). I'll probably reserve
comment until I've had a play with that.




On 27 March 2014 09:52, Martin Yara  wrote:

> Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to
> Softimage Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the
> last few years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to
> Softimage (without the
>
> The GUI is not as simple and straight forward as the M key, but it does
> the job done and I guess a simple script to change the options
> automatically and assign it to a hotkey may do the trick.
>
> - Move Tool
> Select your object, Active Multi-Component in the MTK, press W to change
> the mode to Translate,  Activate Tweak/Marquee option and now you have your
> Move Tool.
>
> - Slide Components
> If you want to slide like the magnet tool, Change the Transform
> Constraints. I asked this in another thread.
>
> - Weld point
> Although you have the Merge Vertex Tool for this, MTK has also it's own
> Target Weld. Pretty similar to the M key + weld, but this one works with
> edges too.
>
> - Split Edges
> The equivalent to Split Edge would be MTK Connect, MMB to control the
> number of segments. The same Connect tool has an option of Slide that would
> be the equivalent to Split Edge with split Control (slide with MMB).
>
> - Raycast
> This MTK also has a selection mode with a Raycast Option that would work
> just like SI raycast.
>
> The good thing is that now with MTK, unlike the previous Maya preferences,
> you can select backfaces that you are seeing in wireframe mode ala
> Softimage.
>
> The problem with the Raycast/Marquee option is that the Marquee only works
> if you start to drag outside the object. So if you want to do a drag select
> a bunch of polygons in the center of your object just like you could with
> Lasso or Raycast Rectangle in SI, you can't. You'll have to do it with a
> Raycast.
>
> I miss SI Lasso tool.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Tim Leydecker  wrote:
>
>> Can I trade the MMB functionality against the "M" key workflow?
>>
>> Personally, I don´t use MMB much because when modeling, I will usually
>> resort to using either the "M" key or rick-clicking to access polygon
>> operations.
>>
>> Sliding a component (selection) around on a polygon surface is a
>> wonderful feature
>> in Softimage.
>>
>> I would say that using a combination of variations of the M key settings,
>> add edge,
>> and extrude is covering 65% of my work for modeling, with a Split Edge
>> (with split control)
>> here and there. I tend to model my bevels due to legacy shortcomings in
>> tools.
>>
>> A good 15% is the ease of using "U"/"T"/"E" with raycast perference
>> options that prevent
>> selecting unwanted (backfaced) areas.
>>
>> 10% is viewport interaction. Tumbling around and view modes.
>>
>> 10% is unfold3d. (It´s a lot more this brings but it´s become so easy :-)
>>
>> Using wheighting edges in subD models I refuse to use until it is
>> consistenly supported
>> in something as reliable as a blank *.obj format in any other app
>> available.
>>
>> There´s no point in wheighting a (subD style) edge hardness when you
>> realize you can´t import/export it anywhere
>> like that.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> tim
>>
>> P.S: Merging vertices in Maya is nicer, with it´s treshhold options.
>>
>>

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Martin Yara]

Oops I pressed send too soon. I meant it is now pretty close to Softimage
but without the non destructive workflow (edit topology without breaking
your weights) which is a huge difference but still modeling is better than
a few years ago.

Thanks Brent for those tips !
I don't think the backtick is usable in a japanese keyboard though. I can't
find the japanese equivalent.

Martin


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Martin Yara  wrote:

> Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to
> Softimage Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the
> last few years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to
> Softimage (without the
>
>
>

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Szabolcs Matefy]

Guys, I'm now using maya to find out the major differences...

Bevel tool - how on Earth I can bevel a bunch of polygons with beveling their 
common edges???!?!!!?!???!?!?!?!!!!

Connect tool - how on Earth I can change the number of segments connecting 
edges after the tool is applied!???

Etc.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Brent McPherson
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 11:12 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

Great summary Martin but I'd like to add two little timesaving tips:

1) Tab hotkey temporarily activates raycast selection mode

2) Backtick hotkey (the key above Tab) temporarily activates tweak mode

--
Brent

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 27 March 2014 09:53
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to Softimage 
Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the last few years 
from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to Softimage (without the

The GUI is not as simple and straight forward as the M key, but it does the job 
done and I guess a simple script to change the options automatically and assign 
it to a hotkey may do the trick.

- Move Tool
Select your object, Active Multi-Component in the MTK, press W to change the 
mode to Translate,  Activate Tweak/Marquee option and now you have your Move 
Tool.

- Slide Components
If you want to slide like the magnet tool, Change the Transform Constraints. I 
asked this in another thread.

- Weld point
Although you have the Merge Vertex Tool for this, MTK has also it's own Target 
Weld. Pretty similar to the M key + weld, but this one works with edges too.

- Split Edges
The equivalent to Split Edge would be MTK Connect, MMB to control the number of 
segments. The same Connect tool has an option of Slide that would be the 
equivalent to Split Edge with split Control (slide with MMB).

- Raycast
This MTK also has a selection mode with a Raycast Option that would work just 
like SI raycast.

The good thing is that now with MTK, unlike the previous Maya preferences, you 
can select backfaces that you are seeing in wireframe mode ala Softimage.

The problem with the Raycast/Marquee option is that the Marquee only works if 
you start to drag outside the object. So if you want to do a drag select a 
bunch of polygons in the center of your object just like you could with Lasso 
or Raycast Rectangle in SI, you can't. You'll have to do it with a Raycast.

I miss SI Lasso tool.


Martin



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Tim Leydecker 
mailto:bauero...@gmx.de>> wrote:
Can I trade the MMB functionality against the "M" key workflow?

Personally, I don´t use MMB much because when modeling, I will usually
resort to using either the "M" key or rick-clicking to access polygon 
operations.

Sliding a component (selection) around on a polygon surface is a wonderful 
feature
in Softimage.

I would say that using a combination of variations of the M key settings, add 
edge,
and extrude is covering 65% of my work for modeling, with a Split Edge (with 
split control)
here and there. I tend to model my bevels due to legacy shortcomings in tools.

A good 15% is the ease of using "U"/"T"/"E" with raycast perference options 
that prevent
selecting unwanted (backfaced) areas.

10% is viewport interaction. Tumbling around and view modes.

10% is unfold3d. (It´s a lot more this brings but it´s become so easy :-)

Using wheighting edges in subD models I refuse to use until it is consistenly 
supported
in something as reliable as a blank *.obj format in any other app available.

There´s no point in wheighting a (subD style) edge hardness when you realize 
you can´t import/export it anywhere
like that.

Cheers,

tim

P.S: Merging vertices in Maya is nicer, with it´s treshhold options.

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Brent McPherson]

Great summary Martin but I'd like to add two little timesaving tips:

1) Tab hotkey temporarily activates raycast selection mode

2) Backtick hotkey (the key above Tab) temporarily activates tweak mode

--
Brent

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 27 March 2014 09:53
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to Softimage 
Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the last few years 
from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to Softimage (without the

The GUI is not as simple and straight forward as the M key, but it does the job 
done and I guess a simple script to change the options automatically and assign 
it to a hotkey may do the trick.

- Move Tool
Select your object, Active Multi-Component in the MTK, press W to change the 
mode to Translate,  Activate Tweak/Marquee option and now you have your Move 
Tool.

- Slide Components
If you want to slide like the magnet tool, Change the Transform Constraints. I 
asked this in another thread.

- Weld point
Although you have the Merge Vertex Tool for this, MTK has also it's own Target 
Weld. Pretty similar to the M key + weld, but this one works with edges too.

- Split Edges
The equivalent to Split Edge would be MTK Connect, MMB to control the number of 
segments. The same Connect tool has an option of Slide that would be the 
equivalent to Split Edge with split Control (slide with MMB).

- Raycast
This MTK also has a selection mode with a Raycast Option that would work just 
like SI raycast.

The good thing is that now with MTK, unlike the previous Maya preferences, you 
can select backfaces that you are seeing in wireframe mode ala Softimage.

The problem with the Raycast/Marquee option is that the Marquee only works if 
you start to drag outside the object. So if you want to do a drag select a 
bunch of polygons in the center of your object just like you could with Lasso 
or Raycast Rectangle in SI, you can't. You'll have to do it with a Raycast.

I miss SI Lasso tool.


Martin



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Tim Leydecker 
mailto:bauero...@gmx.de>> wrote:
Can I trade the MMB functionality against the "M" key workflow?

Personally, I don´t use MMB much because when modeling, I will usually
resort to using either the "M" key or rick-clicking to access polygon 
operations.

Sliding a component (selection) around on a polygon surface is a wonderful 
feature
in Softimage.

I would say that using a combination of variations of the M key settings, add 
edge,
and extrude is covering 65% of my work for modeling, with a Split Edge (with 
split control)
here and there. I tend to model my bevels due to legacy shortcomings in tools.

A good 15% is the ease of using "U"/"T"/"E" with raycast perference options 
that prevent
selecting unwanted (backfaced) areas.

10% is viewport interaction. Tumbling around and view modes.

10% is unfold3d. (It´s a lot more this brings but it´s become so easy :-)

Using wheighting edges in subD models I refuse to use until it is consistenly 
supported
in something as reliable as a blank *.obj format in any other app available.

There´s no point in wheighting a (subD style) edge hardness when you realize 
you can´t import/export it anywhere
like that.

Cheers,

tim

P.S: Merging vertices in Maya is nicer, with it´s treshhold options.

<>

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Martin Yara]

Maya has a Modeling Toolkit since 2014 and it is quite similar to Softimage
Move Tool. And it is IMHO the best addition Maya has had in the last few
years from a Modeler POV. I mean it is now pretty close to Softimage
(without the

The GUI is not as simple and straight forward as the M key, but it does the
job done and I guess a simple script to change the options automatically
and assign it to a hotkey may do the trick.

- Move Tool
Select your object, Active Multi-Component in the MTK, press W to change
the mode to Translate,  Activate Tweak/Marquee option and now you have your
Move Tool.

- Slide Components
If you want to slide like the magnet tool, Change the Transform
Constraints. I asked this in another thread.

- Weld point
Although you have the Merge Vertex Tool for this, MTK has also it's own
Target Weld. Pretty similar to the M key + weld, but this one works with
edges too.

- Split Edges
The equivalent to Split Edge would be MTK Connect, MMB to control the
number of segments. The same Connect tool has an option of Slide that would
be the equivalent to Split Edge with split Control (slide with MMB).

- Raycast
This MTK also has a selection mode with a Raycast Option that would work
just like SI raycast.

The good thing is that now with MTK, unlike the previous Maya preferences,
you can select backfaces that you are seeing in wireframe mode ala
Softimage.

The problem with the Raycast/Marquee option is that the Marquee only works
if you start to drag outside the object. So if you want to do a drag select
a bunch of polygons in the center of your object just like you could with
Lasso or Raycast Rectangle in SI, you can't. You'll have to do it with a
Raycast.

I miss SI Lasso tool.


Martin




On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Tim Leydecker  wrote:

> Can I trade the MMB functionality against the "M" key workflow?
>
> Personally, I don´t use MMB much because when modeling, I will usually
> resort to using either the "M" key or rick-clicking to access polygon
> operations.
>
> Sliding a component (selection) around on a polygon surface is a wonderful
> feature
> in Softimage.
>
> I would say that using a combination of variations of the M key settings,
> add edge,
> and extrude is covering 65% of my work for modeling, with a Split Edge
> (with split control)
> here and there. I tend to model my bevels due to legacy shortcomings in
> tools.
>
> A good 15% is the ease of using "U"/"T"/"E" with raycast perference
> options that prevent
> selecting unwanted (backfaced) areas.
>
> 10% is viewport interaction. Tumbling around and view modes.
>
> 10% is unfold3d. (It´s a lot more this brings but it´s become so easy :-)
>
> Using wheighting edges in subD models I refuse to use until it is
> consistenly supported
> in something as reliable as a blank *.obj format in any other app
> available.
>
> There´s no point in wheighting a (subD style) edge hardness when you
> realize you can´t import/export it anywhere
> like that.
>
> Cheers,
>
> tim
>
> P.S: Merging vertices in Maya is nicer, with it´s treshhold options.
>
>

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Szabolcs Matefy]

A little good thing in the disaster that ex-Softimage developers are sitting 
now in the development team

I think a well prepared poll could help your work

Make sure, that all feature that is exclusive to Softimage is present in the 
list, like GATOR, Sticky/Supra Key, MMB for last menu command, Snapping System 
with ALT key pivot manipulation, animation icons (feedback on keys, animation 
types), etc.

Make then sure, that you can separate the user feedback based upon their area 
of work (like VFX, films, games, ads, etc)

Then you will get a really good overview of what is essential to inject into 
Maya.

Good luck guys. It's hard task. And to quote Lord Farquaad: "Some of yoy may 
die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make!" :)



From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:46 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

We are keeping MMB Repeat under consideration for Maya, thanks all for the 
feedback.

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Matt Lind 
mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:
I fully understood what your post was about, Luc-Eric.

What I stated is what many users here liked MMB upon learning about it as, 
other than myself and one other person, nobody had used Softimage before.  They 
had all come from 3DSMax and/or Maya.  Many of them have commented they wish 
the MMB feature was in Maya as it's simple, intuitive, and saves repetitive 
work freeing up a spot or two on the keyboard for something else.  While you 
can use 'g' in Maya, it's not the same as MMB in the menus as each menu can 
have its own history remembering a different command whereas 'g' can only 
remember one command - the most recent.  That's important.  Users here have a 
mentality burned into their skulls from those other software that they have to 
make lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars to get anything done.  Introducing 
something like a MMB is a revelation as it's both simple and powerful.

What should also be conveyed is that when artists feel like they have to make 
lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars, they often tend to start dabbling in 
scripting to make those customizations.  Artist code tends to be a frequent 
cause of fires I have to exterminate and generally a waste of my time as a TD.  
If artists have these nice UI workflow touches such as MMB to repeat, they're 
less inclined to write crappy code which means fewer fires to fight and more 
focus on productivity not only for the artists, but also for me as it allows me 
to spend more time focusing on writing tools which can provide bigger impact 
than quickie buttons.


Matt




-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of 
Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:25 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind 
> wrote:
> Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.  It's popular.  
> They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate tear off menus, but 
> given the choice they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom toolbar as 
> 2nd option, and tear off menu as last option.  The issue being that tear off 
> menus don't allow for customized menus. You only get the existing menu 
> structure in a different place.
>
> What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to execute commands or a 
> series of commands.  Tear off menus are good for situations where the entire 
> menu is a custom menu of commands like a custom toolbar would be, and the 
> commands in that menu are very closely related to the task at hand.  If the 
> menu is full of built-in commands, they're less liked because usually the 
> user only cares about one or two tools in the menu but is stuck having to 
> take all of them as part of the package deal resulting in clutter.  For 
> example, go to the property menu and you have entries for visibility, 
> display, etc..., but also a lot of unrelated tools such as rendermap or 
> gator.  It's a very tall menu but the user only wants 3 or 4 items out of 30. 
>  If tear off menus allowed individual items to be torn off and merged into a 
> toolbar, then that would be ideal.
>
> Implementing MMB to repeat a command in a menu would be a popular move.

that's OK, but that's in Softimage.  The bit that's not obvious is whether 
someone using Maya needs a MMB, that's what my post is meant to be about.
In Maya, you can even hold shift+ctrl while selecting a menu to make it a 
button the shelf.  (Doing the same thing in Softimage would be a
pain) You'll be working differently, have different reflexes.

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Sofronis Efstathiou]

Yes! Agreed!

-Original Message-
From: Tim Leydecker [bauero...@gmx.de]
Received: Thursday, 27 Mar 2014, 6:49AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage@listproc.autodesk.com]
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

Can I trade the MMB functionality against the "M" key workflow?

Personally, I don´t use MMB much because when modeling, I will usually
resort to using either the "M" key or rick-clicking to access polygon 
operations.

Sliding a component (selection) around on a polygon surface is a wonderful 
feature
in Softimage.

I would say that using a combination of variations of the M key settings, add 
edge,
and extrude is covering 65% of my work for modeling, with a Split Edge (with 
split control)
here and there. I tend to model my bevels due to legacy shortcomings in tools.

A good 15% is the ease of using "U"/"T"/"E" with raycast perference options 
that prevent
selecting unwanted (backfaced) areas.

10% is viewport interaction. Tumbling around and view modes.

10% is unfold3d. (It´s a lot more this brings but it´s become so easy :-)

Using wheighting edges in subD models I refuse to use until it is consistenly 
supported
in something as reliable as a blank *.obj format in any other app available.

There´s no point in wheighting a (subD style) edge hardness when you realize 
you can´t import/export it anywhere
like that.

Cheers,

tim

P.S: Merging vertices in Maya is nicer, with it´s treshhold options.



On 27.03.2014 00:45, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:
> We are keeping MMB Repeat under consideration for Maya, thanks all for the 
> feedback.
>
> On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Matt Lind  <mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:
>
> I fully understood what your post was about, Luc-Eric.
>
> What I stated is what many users here liked MMB upon learning about it 
> as, other than myself and one other person, nobody had used Softimage before. 
>  They had all come from
> 3DSMax and/or Maya.  Many of them have commented they wish the MMB 
> feature was in Maya as it's simple, intuitive, and saves repetitive work 
> freeing up a spot or two on the
> keyboard for something else.  While you can use 'g' in Maya, it's not the 
> same as MMB in the menus as each menu can have its own history remembering a 
> different command whereas
> 'g' can only remember one command - the most recent.  That's important.  
> Users here have a mentality burned into their skulls from those other 
> software that they have to make
> lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars to get anything done.  
> Introducing something like a MMB is a revelation as it's both simple and 
> powerful.
>
> What should also be conveyed is that when artists feel like they have to 
> make lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars, they often tend to start 
> dabbling in scripting to make
> those customizations.  Artist code tends to be a frequent cause of fires 
> I have to exterminate and generally a waste of my time as a TD.  If artists 
> have these nice UI workflow
> touches such as MMB to repeat, they're less inclined to write crappy code 
> which means fewer fires to fight and more focus on productivity not only for 
> the artists, but also for
> me as it allows me to spend more time focusing on writing tools which can 
> provide bigger impact than quickie buttons.
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric 
> Rousseau
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:25 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind  
> wrote:
>  > Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.  It's 
> popular.  They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate tear off 
> menus, but given the choice
> they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom toolbar as 2nd option, and 
> tear off menu as last option.  The issue being that tear off menus don't 
> allow for customized menus.
> You only get the existing menu structure in a different place.
>  >
>  > What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to execute commands 
> or a series of commands.  Tear off menus are good for situations where the 
> entire menu is a custom
> menu of commands like a custom toolbar would be, and the commands in that 
> menu are very closely related to the task at hand.  If the menu is full of 
> built-in commands, they're
> less liked because usually the user only cares about one or two tools in 
> the menu but is stu

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Tim Leydecker]

Can I trade the MMB functionality against the "M" key workflow?

Personally, I don´t use MMB much because when modeling, I will usually
resort to using either the "M" key or rick-clicking to access polygon 
operations.

Sliding a component (selection) around on a polygon surface is a wonderful 
feature
in Softimage.

I would say that using a combination of variations of the M key settings, add 
edge,
and extrude is covering 65% of my work for modeling, with a Split Edge (with 
split control)
here and there. I tend to model my bevels due to legacy shortcomings in tools.

A good 15% is the ease of using "U"/"T"/"E" with raycast perference options 
that prevent
selecting unwanted (backfaced) areas.

10% is viewport interaction. Tumbling around and view modes.

10% is unfold3d. (It´s a lot more this brings but it´s become so easy :-)

Using wheighting edges in subD models I refuse to use until it is consistenly 
supported
in something as reliable as a blank *.obj format in any other app available.

There´s no point in wheighting a (subD style) edge hardness when you realize 
you can´t import/export it anywhere
like that.

Cheers,

tim

P.S: Merging vertices in Maya is nicer, with it´s treshhold options.



On 27.03.2014 00:45, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:

We are keeping MMB Repeat under consideration for Maya, thanks all for the 
feedback.

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Matt Lind mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:

I fully understood what your post was about, Luc-Eric.

What I stated is what many users here liked MMB upon learning about it as, 
other than myself and one other person, nobody had used Softimage before.  They 
had all come from
3DSMax and/or Maya.  Many of them have commented they wish the MMB feature 
was in Maya as it's simple, intuitive, and saves repetitive work freeing up a 
spot or two on the
keyboard for something else.  While you can use 'g' in Maya, it's not the 
same as MMB in the menus as each menu can have its own history remembering a 
different command whereas
'g' can only remember one command - the most recent.  That's important.  
Users here have a mentality burned into their skulls from those other software 
that they have to make
lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars to get anything done.  Introducing 
something like a MMB is a revelation as it's both simple and powerful.

What should also be conveyed is that when artists feel like they have to 
make lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars, they often tend to start dabbling 
in scripting to make
those customizations.  Artist code tends to be a frequent cause of fires I 
have to exterminate and generally a waste of my time as a TD.  If artists have 
these nice UI workflow
touches such as MMB to repeat, they're less inclined to write crappy code 
which means fewer fires to fight and more focus on productivity not only for 
the artists, but also for
me as it allows me to spend more time focusing on writing tools which can 
provide bigger impact than quickie buttons.


Matt




-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
    Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:25 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind  wrote:
 > Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.  It's 
popular.  They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate tear off menus, 
but given the choice
they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom toolbar as 2nd option, and 
tear off menu as last option.  The issue being that tear off menus don't allow 
for customized menus.
You only get the existing menu structure in a different place.
 >
 > What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to execute commands 
or a series of commands.  Tear off menus are good for situations where the entire 
menu is a custom
menu of commands like a custom toolbar would be, and the commands in that 
menu are very closely related to the task at hand.  If the menu is full of 
built-in commands, they're
less liked because usually the user only cares about one or two tools in 
the menu but is stuck having to take all of them as part of the package deal 
resulting in clutter.  For
example, go to the property menu and you have entries for visibility, 
display, etc..., but also a lot of unrelated tools such as rendermap or gator.  
It's a very tall menu but
the user only wants 3 or 4 items out of 30.  If tear off menus allowed 
individual items to be torn off and merged into a toolbar, then that would be 
ideal.
 >
 > Implementing MMB to repeat a command in a menu would be a popular move.

that's OK, but that'

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

We are keeping MMB Repeat under consideration for Maya, thanks all for the
feedback.

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Matt Lind  wrote:

> I fully understood what your post was about, Luc-Eric.
>
> What I stated is what many users here liked MMB upon learning about it as,
> other than myself and one other person, nobody had used Softimage before.
>  They had all come from 3DSMax and/or Maya.  Many of them have commented
> they wish the MMB feature was in Maya as it's simple, intuitive, and saves
> repetitive work freeing up a spot or two on the keyboard for something
> else.  While you can use 'g' in Maya, it's not the same as MMB in the menus
> as each menu can have its own history remembering a different command
> whereas 'g' can only remember one command - the most recent.  That's
> important.  Users here have a mentality burned into their skulls from those
> other software that they have to make lots of keyboard shortcuts and
> toolbars to get anything done.  Introducing something like a MMB is a
> revelation as it's both simple and powerful.
>
> What should also be conveyed is that when artists feel like they have to
> make lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars, they often tend to start
> dabbling in scripting to make those customizations.  Artist code tends to
> be a frequent cause of fires I have to exterminate and generally a waste of
> my time as a TD.  If artists have these nice UI workflow touches such as
> MMB to repeat, they're less inclined to write crappy code which means fewer
> fires to fight and more focus on productivity not only for the artists, but
> also for me as it allows me to spend more time focusing on writing tools
> which can provide bigger impact than quickie buttons.
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com  [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com ] On Behalf Of
> Luc-Eric Rousseau
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:25 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind 
> >
> wrote:
> > Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.  It's
> popular.  They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate tear off
> menus, but given the choice they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom
> toolbar as 2nd option, and tear off menu as last option.  The issue being
> that tear off menus don't allow for customized menus. You only get the
> existing menu structure in a different place.
> >
> > What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to execute commands
> or a series of commands.  Tear off menus are good for situations where the
> entire menu is a custom menu of commands like a custom toolbar would be,
> and the commands in that menu are very closely related to the task at hand.
>  If the menu is full of built-in commands, they're less liked because
> usually the user only cares about one or two tools in the menu but is stuck
> having to take all of them as part of the package deal resulting in
> clutter.  For example, go to the property menu and you have entries for
> visibility, display, etc..., but also a lot of unrelated tools such as
> rendermap or gator.  It's a very tall menu but the user only wants 3 or 4
> items out of 30.  If tear off menus allowed individual items to be torn off
> and merged into a toolbar, then that would be ideal.
> >
> > Implementing MMB to repeat a command in a menu would be a popular move.
>
> that's OK, but that's in Softimage.  The bit that's not obvious is whether
> someone using Maya needs a MMB, that's what my post is meant to be about.
> In Maya, you can even hold shift+ctrl while selecting a menu to make it a
> button the shelf.  (Doing the same thing in Softimage would be a
> pain) You'll be working differently, have different reflexes.
>
>
>

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Matt Lind]

I fully understood what your post was about, Luc-Eric.  

What I stated is what many users here liked MMB upon learning about it as, 
other than myself and one other person, nobody had used Softimage before.  They 
had all come from 3DSMax and/or Maya.  Many of them have commented they wish 
the MMB feature was in Maya as it's simple, intuitive, and saves repetitive 
work freeing up a spot or two on the keyboard for something else.  While you 
can use 'g' in Maya, it's not the same as MMB in the menus as each menu can 
have its own history remembering a different command whereas 'g' can only 
remember one command - the most recent.  That's important.  Users here have a 
mentality burned into their skulls from those other software that they have to 
make lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars to get anything done.  Introducing 
something like a MMB is a revelation as it's both simple and powerful.

What should also be conveyed is that when artists feel like they have to make 
lots of keyboard shortcuts and toolbars, they often tend to start dabbling in 
scripting to make those customizations.  Artist code tends to be a frequent 
cause of fires I have to exterminate and generally a waste of my time as a TD.  
If artists have these nice UI workflow touches such as MMB to repeat, they're 
less inclined to write crappy code which means fewer fires to fight and more 
focus on productivity not only for the artists, but also for me as it allows me 
to spend more time focusing on writing tools which can provide bigger impact 
than quickie buttons.


Matt




-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:25 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind  wrote:
> Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.  It's popular.  
> They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate tear off menus, but 
> given the choice they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom toolbar as 
> 2nd option, and tear off menu as last option.  The issue being that tear off 
> menus don't allow for customized menus. You only get the existing menu 
> structure in a different place.
>
> What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to execute commands or a 
> series of commands.  Tear off menus are good for situations where the entire 
> menu is a custom menu of commands like a custom toolbar would be, and the 
> commands in that menu are very closely related to the task at hand.  If the 
> menu is full of built-in commands, they're less liked because usually the 
> user only cares about one or two tools in the menu but is stuck having to 
> take all of them as part of the package deal resulting in clutter.  For 
> example, go to the property menu and you have entries for visibility, 
> display, etc..., but also a lot of unrelated tools such as rendermap or 
> gator.  It's a very tall menu but the user only wants 3 or 4 items out of 30. 
>  If tear off menus allowed individual items to be torn off and merged into a 
> toolbar, then that would be ideal.
>
> Implementing MMB to repeat a command in a menu would be a popular move.

that's OK, but that's in Softimage.  The bit that's not obvious is whether 
someone using Maya needs a MMB, that's what my post is meant to be about.
In Maya, you can even hold shift+ctrl while selecting a menu to make it a 
button the shelf.  (Doing the same thing in Softimage would be a
pain) You'll be working differently, have different reflexes.

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[John Richard Sanchez]

AMEN!


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Halim Negadi  wrote:

> +10 Greg
> should be in every single drop down menu of every app.
> Are we safe AD is not going to claim patents ? Probably not, AD had no
> clue until very recently it had this in its catalogue :|
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Greg Punchatz wrote:
>
>>  I will repeat, the middle mouse button option should be in every
>> app not just maya.  It makes sense in ANY app with drop down menu
>> systems in place.
>>
>> Please don't disregard this request.
>>  --
>> *Greg Punchatz*
>>  *Sr. Creative Director*
>> Janimation
>> 214.823.7760
>> www.janimation.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Greg Maguire]

my 2c

1. Toggle Show/Hide and keep selected.
I like pressing 'h' a lot to toggle visibility of an object. Having to
press Shift-H and Ctl-H after finding the object has always been
counter-intuitive to me.

2. Copy Skin Weights.
Transferring weights from one object to another requires too many steps. In
maya, both objects must have the same input joints before the transfer
command can be used. This can be challenging on a complex creature with a
large number of joints. Could be made easier if there was a pulldown menu
for the command to select all inputs of a skinCluster (i.e. skinCluster -q
-weightedInfluence $theSkinCluster;) Would be even easier if "Copy Skin
Weights", found all the inputs to the skinCluster, bindSkinned the target
object to them, then transferred the weights.

3. Joint weight colors.
Use color to differentiate joint weighting assignment and not for intensity.

4. Smooth brush.
Painting weights in Maya is overly complex and unpredictable. Copying Softs
smooth brush would go a long way to fixing this. I still paint weights in
Soft and transfer the weighting to Maya. Andy wrote a python script to
export the weights inside of soft to a mel script.

5. Saving weights.
In Soft, I can save weighting on an object almost instantaneously as a
simple spreadsheet with transforms, vertices and weights. I can also load
it instantly from a file.

6. Damn, I only get 5.

I know the requests are coming through fast and furious and people may not
get to read them all but if anyone has better solutions to the problems
posed above, I'm open to a different workflow.

7. Trax - make it name-based and not index-based. (Sorry slipped)

Regards,


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jason S  wrote:

>
> Hello Alastair
>
> Just to say, I checked-out your page, and every single peice is just truly
> inspiring.
> http://www.glassworks.co.uk/node/549
>
> I burst into laughter at the very first singing cat/bird clip,
> and then yet again just as hard at the very next (mutant) cat/bird clip
> lol! :)
>
>
> To share a little story, while at softimage, then doing demo material on
> the almost toy-like SI3D,
> (using Metamesh Extreme under polymesh cages with the "UV editor" doing
> "interactive smoothing" :)
>
> My (or "our") first experience with Maya, was just then (*years* ago on
> SGI's),
> when we were comparing ways of doing things,
> sort-of assessing what we were up against with our own coming thing.
> (while while striving to surpass -through innovation-)
>
> So the first impression that came to mind was, man... talk about "long
> lists of parameters"..
> it was pretty daunting to wrap our head around it, it was hard to select,
> move things (like components) around,
> shading stuff with the hypershade, with relationships of nodes to other
> nodes felt like being guesswork,
> having then only just recently experienced the render tree which was then
> only a prototype and also being new to us,
> (perhaps the programmable openness of maya escaped me, mostly having an
> "artist" background)
>
> But already we saw that we were like in a different universe on how to
> approach things
> and also that we were definitely on to something.
>
>
> After an "iffy" launch of XSI 1.0, while introducing things like passes,
> and non-linear or otherwise streamlined workflows,
> there was only nurbs-stitching to get smooth uniform surfaces.. & the
> constant crashing was enough to give headaches.
>
> Yet already with the 1.5 did people see what it was all about..
>
> With the advent of Sub-d's (very fast performance subd's, with direct on
> surface points & allowing for speed organic modeling),
> is when XSI actually really picked-up as not only usable,
> but really like an overall "easy" solution to everyday otherwise tricky
> ways to getting things done quick.
>
> And since that time has there been some sort of a struggle between
> impression of potential,
> and perhaps a more down to earth everyday people approach to achieving
> higher level stuff,
> all the way leading to "Moondust".
>
>
> So earlyer this week, I opened-up Maya Demo (after years) to practice for
> an upcoming particle FX job,
> and it was like more or less XSI 4.0-6.0 particle functionality,
> but with (pages of) parameters all "listed", yet again after ~15 years.
>
> The hypershade is still there and basically the same
> (with a node editor on top while having to manage both)
>
> Clicking viewports to activate them, deselects whatever you had selected..
> I could go on with TONS of little things off the bat,
> and I constantly find other comparative "things" by the hour.
> (after some research on each point to see if I'm just missing something,
> and perhaps I still am but..)
>
> The thing is, anyone submerged in & knowing only Maya (being most people
> working on it i suspect)
> could just never grasp how many subtleties were thought about when
> designing SI's workflow.
> (and therefore what it represents to it'

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Halim Negadi]

+10 Greg
should be in every single drop down menu of every app.
Are we safe AD is not going to claim patents ? Probably not, AD had no clue
until very recently it had this in its catalogue :|


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

>  I will repeat, the middle mouse button option should be in every app
> not just maya.  It makes sense in ANY app with drop down menu systems in
> place.
>
> Please don't disregard this request.
>  --
> *Greg Punchatz*
>  *Sr. Creative Director*
> Janimation
> 214.823.7760
> www.janimation.com
>
>

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Adam Seeley]

++1


Another part of it's elegance is that it doesn't just work on top dropdowns, 
but also on sub menu dropdowns.

I still try it,  jussst in case, in most applications, it could easily be a 
software standard.

Adam.

_

http://www.linkedin.com/in/adamseeleyuk
https://vimeo.com/adamseeley




>
> From: Greg Punchatz 
>To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2014, 21:39
>Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
> 
>
>
>I will repeat, the middle mouse button option should be in every app not 
>just maya.  It makes sense in ANY app with drop down menu systems in place.
>
>Please don't disregard this request.
>
> 
>
>
> Greg Punchatz
>
>Sr. Creative Director
>Janimation
>214.823.7760214.823.7760
>www.janimation.com 
>
>
>
>

Re: humanize maya, SOFT top 5

[Jason S]

Hello Alastair

Just to say, I checked-out your page, and every single peice is just
truly inspiring.
http://www.glassworks.co.uk/node/549

I burst into laughter at the very first singing cat/bird clip, 
and then yet again just as hard at the very next (mutant)
cat/bird clip lol! :)


To share a little story, while at softimage, then doing demo material
on the almost toy-like SI3D, 
(using Metamesh Extreme under polymesh cages with the "UV
editor" doing "interactive
smoothing" :)

My (or "our") first experience with Maya, was just then (*years* ago on
SGI's),  
when we were comparing ways of doing things,
sort-of assessing what we were up against with our own coming thing.
(while while striving to surpass -through innovation-)

So the first impression that came to mind was, man... talk
about "long lists of parameters"..
it was pretty daunting to wrap our head around it, it was hard to
select, move things (like components) around,
shading stuff with the hypershade, with relationships of nodes to other
nodes felt like being guesswork,
having then only just recently experienced the render tree which was
then only a prototype and also being new to us, 
(perhaps the programmable openness of maya escaped me, mostly
having an
"artist" background)

But already we saw that we were like in a different universe on how to
approach things
and also that we were definitely on to something.


After an "iffy" launch of XSI 1.0, while introducing things like
passes, and non-linear or otherwise streamlined workflows, 
there was only nurbs-stitching to get smooth uniform surfaces.. &
the constant
crashing was enough to give headaches.

Yet already with the 1.5 did people see
what it was all about..

With the advent of Sub-d's (very fast performance subd's, with
direct on surface points & allowing for speed organic modeling),

is when XSI actually really picked-up as
not only usable, 
but really like an overall "easy" solution to everyday
otherwise tricky ways to getting things done quick.

And since that time has there been some sort of a struggle between
impression of potential, 
and perhaps a more down to earth everyday people approach to achieving
higher level stuff, 
all the way leading to "Moondust".


So earlyer this week, I opened-up Maya Demo (after years) to practice
for an upcoming particle FX job,
and it was like more or less XSI 4.0-6.0 particle functionality, 
but with (pages of) parameters all "listed", yet again
after ~15 years.

The hypershade is still there and basically the same 
(with a node
editor on top while having to manage both)

Clicking viewports to activate them, deselects whatever you had
selected.. 
I could go on with TONS of little things off the bat,
and I constantly find other comparative "things" by the hour.
(after some research on each point to see if I'm just missing
something, and perhaps I still am but..) 

The thing is, anyone submerged in & knowing only Maya (being most
people working on it i suspect) 
could just never grasp how many subtleties were thought about when
designing SI's workflow.
(and therefore what it represents to it's users)


Alastair, one of your clips is the Bjork android video, 
and I clearly remember when that came-out, 
being around when XSI also came-out, and I was really "aww-ed" :)

And then on the words "you'll be given love..", said when giving
life to a robot, 
I recall thinking how that really applied to what we were doing.. cause
not unlike a good song, 
anything well thought-out in every subtlety, or "made with 'love' " 
can indeed qualify as having "soul" that you can "feel".

And "soul" is something you couldn't buy with billions of dollars. 
As it has to be real for it to be, otherwise it's just not.

And I think that's what made DS so "intimidating" to Avid, 
and XSI so "intimidating" to Autodesk, especially with the advent of
ICE.

So how about "Soul" as bullet-point feature request ;)

And I think I will end on that,
Cheers,
J


  On 03/25/14 13:52, Alastair Hearsum wrote:
  
  
  Jean louis
  
You beat me to it. I was just about to say that.
  
Alastair
  
  
  
   Alastair Hearsum 
   Head of 3d 
  
  
  
  
  On 25/03/2014 17:49, Jean-Louis Billard wrote:
  
  Hi Shuting,

That’s not the same thing at all I’m afraid. In Softimage *every* menu has it’s own memory of the last command accessed. So you can middle click any menu and repeat its last command (as long as there has been one used within the session)

Regards,
Jean-Louis


Jean-Louis Billard

Digital Golem
BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563
UK: +44 (0) 7973 660 119
jean-lo...@digitalgolem.com
http://www.digitalgolem.com/
53 Rue Gustave Huberti
1030 Brussels


  

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Greg Punchatz]

I will repeat, the middle mouse button option should be in every app 
not just maya.  It makes sense in ANY app with drop down menu systems in 
place.


Please don't disregard this request.

*Greg Punchatz*
*Sr. Creative Director*
Janimation
214.823.7760
www.janimation.com 

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

I'd argue that having 100 "g" keys in Maya would be far better than 1. 

It's a real pain to have to re-initialize a tool just to get it to repeat 
because you did something else that erased the "g" memory. There is wasted time 
and effort there.

There is the temporal factor as well. In Maya "g" is only useful if you use it 
immediately after the command you want to repeat. I make a sphere, then 
duplicate with transform at 10 units. I hit "g" eight times I'll get ten sphere 
total ten units apart. In Soft, if I don't use the primitive button all day 
long I can middle click repeat the sphere creation command eight hours later, 
regardless what else I do. That's just not possible in Maya. 

The significance of this one seemingly mundane command really can't be ignored. 
It's far more than "just" a repeat tool. 

--
Joey Ponthieux
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not 
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.


> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-
> boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:51 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
> 
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Martin Yara  wrote:
> > While I like this MMB repeat function, but I don't see how it could be
> > implemented in Maya without having to heavily change its interface.
> 
> I think technically MMB could possibly be implemented in Maya's menu
> (although perhaps not on OSX), but I'm not 50% sure that this is a true
> problem.  In Sofitmage, we structured some menus knowing that you would
> be doing MMB on those big buttons to repeat commands burried in there
> two levels deep. (More so in Softimage 3D, for example to set keys, but
> anyway)  But in Maya, you'll be interacting  with the software differently,
> including using marking menus, hotkeys, and hotbox.
> 
> In the XSI viewport, you can MMB to toggle between the two last modes, for
> example wireframe and textured, but that's not a 'repeat last command', it's
> a special case for that button.
> 
> I'm not opposing MMB, but I'm not totally sold on whether this is essential
> and not simply a legacy user / muscle memory thing.  Don't forget also tear
> off menus as a way to repeat commands quickly.
> 
> we did add to Maya the ability to keep a menu open to do check several
> checkmarks like in XSI; in Maya in on the CTRL key

RE: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

I started using XSI at home about the time of Foundation which was 4.2 I think. 
It wasn't until about 2007  that I transitioned from Maya to XSI on a permanent 
basis at work. Everything XSI prior to that point was unusable there. All I had 
was Onyx and an Octane 2s. From my perspective, it's always been there :)
 
Tear off menus are only practical if you have lots of expendable screen real 
estate, but yes they are another option. I don't think I've used a Maya tear 
off in maybe 10 years though.


--
Joey Ponthieux
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not 
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-
> boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:56 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5
> 
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G.
> (LARC-E1A)[LITES]  wrote:
> > If you don't use the hotbox much or at all, it's going to be difficult to 
> > avoid
> shelves if you want to improve your workflow in Maya. Maya, like most 3D
> apps is multi-modular, meaning that in Maya the filebar and the menu
> commands it presents changes context with each Module you are working in
> such as Polygons, Surfaces, Animation, etc. Soft does the same thing except
> in Soft the filebar does not change. Rather in Soft,  the Main Toolbar changes
> with modular context instead. Since Softimage's filebar never changes and
> provides access to all commands all the time, it provides the same level of
> access as the hotbox, plus additional functionality such as construction
> modes, passes, and search abilities.
> >
> > Why might you find shelves important to your workflow in Maya? In
> general, while in Maya, and in a particular module, say Polygons, the Maya
> filebar will not present all menu commands available to you. This becomes
> critical to understand when you are modeling polygons with deformers since
> deformers are located in the Animation Module. Therefor you can't access
> deformers while modeling in the Polygons module unless you
> > A. Use the Deformation Shelf in the Polygon Module, or
> > B. Use the Polygons Shelf in the Animation Module, or
> > C. Use the hotbox.
> > Your workflow then consists of mixing shelves and general filebar menu
> commands and potentially hotbox commands if you are willing to put up with
> the hotbox. Other examples of combination practices will include polygons
> and materials, surfaces and materials, polygons and subdivisions, and
> animation and dynamics.
> 
> 
> It's rather new that you have access to all the module menus in XSI at the
> same time; I added this I think XSI 5.1 or 6.0.
> 
> In Maya, don't forget tear off menu. You can easily tear off the deformer
> menu from Animation, and change to the modeling menu set, and therefore
> get both,
> 
> The default shelf is indeed there to play around and explore the program, for
> new/casual users. It doesn't have everything in there.

Re: humanize Maya, SOFT top 5

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Matt Lind  wrote:
> Here at Carbine, users like the MMB to repeat a menu command.  It's popular.  
> They're not as fond of tear off menus.  They don't hate tear off menus, but 
> given the choice they'll use a custom key as 1st option, custom toolbar as 
> 2nd option, and tear off menu as last option.  The issue being that tear off 
> menus don't allow for customized menus. You only get the existing menu 
> structure in a different place.
>
> What users want is clutter free and minimal effort to execute commands or a 
> series of commands.  Tear off menus are good for situations where the entire 
> menu is a custom menu of commands like a custom toolbar would be, and the 
> commands in that menu are very closely related to the task at hand.  If the 
> menu is full of built-in commands, they're less liked because usually the 
> user only cares about one or two tools in the menu but is stuck having to 
> take all of them as part of the package deal resulting in clutter.  For 
> example, go to the property menu and you have entries for visibility, 
> display, etc..., but also a lot of unrelated tools such as rendermap or 
> gator.  It's a very tall menu but the user only wants 3 or 4 items out of 30. 
>  If tear off menus allowed individual items to be torn off and merged into a 
> toolbar, then that would be ideal.
>
> Implementing MMB to repeat a command in a menu would be a popular move.

that's OK, but that's in Softimage.  The bit that's not obvious is
whether someone using Maya needs a MMB, that's what my post is meant
to be about.
In Maya, you can even hold shift+ctrl while selecting a menu to make
it a button the shelf.  (Doing the same thing in Softimage would be a
pain) You'll be working differently, have different reflexes.