Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
David and Dennis, I have yet to try this (David's split parts on one staff) method but your experience, and clear description of the process, is encouraging and most helpful. Thank you. Dennis' idea of adding blank pages to the parts and not printing those pages had not occurred to me. I'm sure it would work, but it also seems kludgy. (My method with two sets of page numbers is not necessarily better.) I reiterate: if Finale can recognize how blank pages work in scores and not include them in the parts, there's no reason it can't be taught to recognize that those pages are not there in the parts. Another possibility - page number offset could be toggled to affect score/parts or both. Thanks to both of you for continued communication about these issues. I'm not even convinced that this new system will speed my workflow. Right now, it hasn't. But I am obstinate about learning to control it. (Maybe I'm just obstinate!) Chuck On Sep 29, 2006, at 2:03 AM, dhbailey wrote: dc wrote: dhbailey écrit: I did find something extremely curious but I didn't have time to investigate further -- when trying to enter corrections, I couldn't get into Speedy Entry while editing a part. Which was a royal pain in the butt because I had a list of corrections which said Flute 1, measure 15, change Db to Dnatural. It would have been so much easier to do that from the part and have the edit show up in the score. I may have been doing something, but it makes no sense to have linked parts if I can't edit the actual music in the parts and have it appear in the score. That's quite strange, because I just finished my first projects with linked parts also, and have been able to make changes in the parts with Speedy Entry. I wonder if there is some option somewhere that says allow editing in parts? I figured out what it is -- annoying but something I can live with (guess I have to, don't I?) I was working on a part where there were two staves for the piano part, and then 2 flute parts on a single staff above that. The 2 flute parts entered most easily in a combination of layers and voices to get everything to show as it should. In creating the parts, I created a flute1-2 part which was simply the 2-part flute staff. But Manage Parts allows for precise splitting of multiple parts on a single staff (sort of) in that we can specify the voicing which will go to each part. So I then created 2 separate flute parts (amazingly, I think that this linked parts thing might actually work for 2 parts on one staff) by defining the voicing which would go to each part when split from the 2-part staff. For the Flute 1 part I checked the box for Selected notes from one or more layers, which then activated the lower box which contains the Rules for Seleting Notes from One or More Layer(s) and then checked the radio button for Selected Note(s) and checked only 1st note box and also the Count Notes: From the top. I also checked the box Include Single Note Passages and for In Measures Containing Multiple Layers, Display Layer I selected layer 1. Then I click OK and it actually did put all the correct notes in the part! For the Flute 2 part, I followed the same procedure except that for Count Notes I checked the From the Bottom radio button, and for In Measures Containing Multiple Layers, Display Layer I selected Layer 2. After Clicking OK, I found that the program actually did put all the correct notes in the Flute 2 part. It is in either of these two split parts (Flute 1 or Flute 2) that I cannot access either Speedy Entry or Simple Entry, but in the combined Flute1-2 part, I can edit the notes there and have them show up in the score. I was trying to edit the notes in the separate Flute 2 part, thinking that would be easier. I am very impressed with how great a job this allowed me to do in splitting a multi-staff part into separate parts, and I think that our original fears of how horrible this linked score/parts feature might be for multi-part staves may be unfounded. Then when it came to page layout I did extract the parts and found that all the page layout issues were much easier to cope with. But I think that with some more practice and investigation, the annoyances with measure number placement and display, and with text placement and expression placement, may actually become manageable. At least I've gotten to the bottom of the mystery as to why I wasn't able to use Speedy or Simple Entry on a couple of parts! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Two little questions
On Sep 29, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Will Denayer wrote:Hello All, I am completely new to Finale. I bought Finale 2007 just a couple of days ago. I would like to ask two questions: 1) when I create a new document using the document setup wizard, Finale brings me to a new document with the mixers on the left side for playback. I have to select page view to see the (empty) page. Can I change this so that it brings me immediately to page or scroll view?This can be done in Preferences/Program Options/View.Finale 2007 does crash from time to time (in my experience). It is somewhat less stable than the last version. In the program preferences, you can set up an automatic backup of the file on which you are working, and it will make a copy and save that periodically. Mine is set to 5 minute intervals. (Maybe BAK means Backup?)Chuck 2) for the moment, I am only making little exercises. If I click Save, a window appears asking me where I want the new document to be located. I choose desktop. This went right two times. The third time, the program crashed. I had to reboot. My third exercise is now saved as (name).BAK. I do not know what BAK stands for, but this really bothers me. What should I do? Thank you for reading and with best regards, Dr. Will Denayer - composer, Ireland The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Two little questions
Just got up and read the list posts. I was wondering where I had gone wrong, and what Noel found wanting in my suggestions to Will. I have been using Finale for so long that I operate a lot of it on a subconscious level, making it a slow process to remember and identify what I do when I need to tell someone else how to do it. So I sometimes stay out of how to advice, even when I think I might know the solution. Some of you are better than I am at step by step instructions, but I did think I had gotten this one right. Thanks, Darcy. Chuck On Sep 30, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 30 Sep 2006, at 3:27 AM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Will Denayer wrote: Hello All, I am completely new to Finale. I bought Finale 2007 just a couple of days ago. Congratulations, Dr. Denayer. I think you will find you have acquired top-flight notation software. I find myself respectfully disagreeing with Chuck: Who is on a Mac, and correctly gave the Mac location for these menu items. you can specify which view you want as the default for a new document on Edit Program Options New; back-up options are selected in Edit Program Options Save; and the default location to save files are specified in Edit Program Options folders. Which is where they are in Windows. I would also recommend periodically checking in at the MakeMusic! website; two or three times a year, there are maintenance upgrades and patches released which you can download and apply. Fin2006c and newer can check for maintenance releases automatically. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
I am now trying the method David describes below for the first time, and I find that it works pretty well but for the fact that the beams are un-editable in the parts. (Special Tools will not move them.) Since the beam placement is done in the score with two or more notes on the stem, the placement with only one note should be different, and it doesn't look good to me. You cannot apply Paterson Beams plugin in the part (or any other plugin) and going back to the score where there are two notes on the stem doesn't solve the problem of how things will look in the part. Am I missing something? Chuck On Sep 29, 2006, at 2:03 AM, dhbailey wrote: dc wrote: dhbailey écrit: I did find something extremely curious but I didn't have time to investigate further -- when trying to enter corrections, I couldn't get into Speedy Entry while editing a part. Which was a royal pain in the butt because I had a list of corrections which said Flute 1, measure 15, change Db to Dnatural. It would have been so much easier to do that from the part and have the edit show up in the score. I may have been doing something, but it makes no sense to have linked parts if I can't edit the actual music in the parts and have it appear in the score. That's quite strange, because I just finished my first projects with linked parts also, and have been able to make changes in the parts with Speedy Entry. I wonder if there is some option somewhere that says allow editing in parts? I figured out what it is -- annoying but something I can live with (guess I have to, don't I?) I was working on a part where there were two staves for the piano part, and then 2 flute parts on a single staff above that. The 2 flute parts entered most easily in a combination of layers and voices to get everything to show as it should. In creating the parts, I created a flute1-2 part which was simply the 2-part flute staff. But Manage Parts allows for precise splitting of multiple parts on a single staff (sort of) in that we can specify the voicing which will go to each part. So I then created 2 separate flute parts (amazingly, I think that this linked parts thing might actually work for 2 parts on one staff) by defining the voicing which would go to each part when split from the 2-part staff. For the Flute 1 part I checked the box for Selected notes from one or more layers, which then activated the lower box which contains the Rules for Seleting Notes from One or More Layer(s) and then checked the radio button for Selected Note(s) and checked only 1st note box and also the Count Notes: From the top. I also checked the box Include Single Note Passages and for In Measures Containing Multiple Layers, Display Layer I selected layer 1. Then I click OK and it actually did put all the correct notes in the part! For the Flute 2 part, I followed the same procedure except that for Count Notes I checked the From the Bottom radio button, and for In Measures Containing Multiple Layers, Display Layer I selected Layer 2. After Clicking OK, I found that the program actually did put all the correct notes in the Flute 2 part. It is in either of these two split parts (Flute 1 or Flute 2) that I cannot access either Speedy Entry or Simple Entry, but in the combined Flute1-2 part, I can edit the notes there and have them show up in the score. I was trying to edit the notes in the separate Flute 2 part, thinking that would be easier. I am very impressed with how great a job this allowed me to do in splitting a multi-staff part into separate parts, and I think that our original fears of how horrible this linked score/parts feature might be for multi-part staves may be unfounded. Then when it came to page layout I did extract the parts and found that all the page layout issues were much easier to cope with. But I think that with some more practice and investigation, the annoyances with measure number placement and display, and with text placement and expression placement, may actually become manageable. At least I've gotten to the bottom of the mystery as to why I wasn't able to use Speedy or Simple Entry on a couple of parts! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
Thank you Dennis, I will try this. As I was working yesterday, I finally got frustrated enough to stop the process and extract the parts. The extracted parts retained the work that had been done with the linked parts and inherited the voicing characteristics that had been set up in the parts management dialog. In balance - this element of the new system seems to be well worked out and is more than worth learning to use. But as soon as the parts were extracted and I went back to working in individual documents, things began to go smoothly and quickly. I don't know if this is because the linked parts system is still in its infancy, or if its characteristics simply function in ways that slow down my work flow, but I have spent the past two months stubbornly trying to make it work only to be mightily relieved the moment I finally abandoned it. YMMV. I am reminded to be careful what I wish for, I might get it! I so much want this to work, but I'm beginning to be convinced that it is counterproductive for my work style, and that the time required to open and edit a few documents to make corrections is trivial compared to the time I have spent attempting to bend this method to my needs. Chuck On Sep 30, 2006, at 11:33 PM, dc wrote: Chuck Israels écrit: I am now trying the method David describes below for the first time, and I find that it works pretty well but for the fact that the beams are un-editable in the parts. (Special Tools will not move them.) Since the beam placement is done in the score with two or more notes on the stem, the placement with only one note should be different, and it doesn't look good to me. You cannot apply Paterson Beams plugin in the part (or any other plugin) and going back to the score where there are two notes on the stem doesn't solve the problem of how things will look in the part. Am I missing something? You can apply Patterson Beams (and most other plug-ins) if you use the new version of his plug-ins: you open the plug-in in score view, switch to part view, and apply it. Quite annoying, especially for plug-ins with settings, such as PB, because you can't simply run it without having it open. And then, you waste a lot of time going from score to parts and back. This is probably the most irritating feature of linked parts... Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
Dear David, I could not get Special Tools/Beam Adjustment to access any part that had been extracted from a multi-part staff, and beam adjustments are needed. You cannot go back to the score to do the editing, or to a part with both voices, because the beam situation changes as the number of notes on the stem changes from two to one. This stops me dead in working in this system with multi-part staves. I also described (or tried to) another uncontrollable situation. On one staff line in a part, a 31 m. MM rest and a one m. pickup (with entries) at the end of the line. Finale will make the 31 m. rest and the one m. spread equally on the line, making the single measure look way too wide. So you drag the bar line and fix it. Fine, if you print right away, but go to another part and return to this one, and take a look. The spacing has sprung back to the default. I understand this to be a result of the fact that you are really messing up the measure proportions in the score, so the manual adjustment cannot be made to hold, or things would be wildly out of proportion in the score. I can't wrap my brain around a way to control this correctly, as long as you are working in linked parts. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but this is forcing me back to extracted parts. (I don't trust myself to see, or want to have to look for, these spacing things and adjust them every time I open a part to print it. If the layout doesn't hold, I can't use the system.) In terms of overall time spent on Finale, it is probably more efficient for me to duplicate edits in parts and scores, rather than work this way. This is a disappointment to me, since I've been working unrelentingly to learn this for the last two months and feel that I have achieved pretty good control. Careful what you ask for, you might get it! Well, maybe it's a good idea to have some parts linked and only extract those that have these problems. I haven't wrapped my brain around that one yet. Chuck On Oct 2, 2006, at 2:31 AM, dhbailey wrote: My experience with the linked score/parts shows me that for single- part-staves it is a very good thing and I am hopeful it will only get better. My experience with multiple-part-staves shows me that as soon as Finale filters which notes appear on the single-staff parts that it is possible to end up with, Finale needs to have all musical editing done on either the original score only or on another linked part which contains the original multiple-part-staff. For example, it will be possible to have a score which has 2 flute parts on a single staff, and in the create parts dialogue, to create 3 linked parts: 1) flute 1-2 (contains all the music in the original staff); 2) flute 1 (with the voicing options set appropriately); 3) flute 2 (with the voicing options set appropriately). All the page layout issues can be accomplished on the second and third parts as I just described them, but all the music entry issues (correcting wrong notes, adding or deleting notes, etc) has to be accomplished on the first part I just described. And Chuck found out just as I had done, that extracting the second and third parts as I describe them above allows the editing work to move ahead very nicely. But editing the music in the first part isn't too difficult, and all those edited changes will show up on the second and third parts (before they are extracted, of course). It's all a brave new world that I see a lot of great potential in. But as with so much of Finale (and indeed with all applications I've ever used), it forces the user to learn to think in the program's ideal workflow. We're all so new to it that it's hard to discover just what that work-flow is. David H. Bailey Chuck Israels wrote: Thank you Dennis, I will try this. As I was working yesterday, I finally got frustrated enough to stop the process and extract the parts. The extracted parts retained the work that had been done with the linked parts and inherited the voicing characteristics that had been set up in the parts management dialog. In balance - this element of the new system seems to be well worked out and is more than worth learning to use. But as soon as the parts were extracted and I went back to working in individual documents, things began to go smoothly and quickly. I don't know if this is because the linked parts system is still in its infancy, or if its characteristics simply function in ways that slow down my work flow, but I have spent the past two months stubbornly trying to make it work only to be mightily relieved the moment I finally abandoned it. YMMV. I am reminded to be careful what I wish for, I might get it! I so much want this to work, but I'm beginning to be convinced that it is counterproductive for my work style, and that the time required to open and edit a few documents to make
Re: [Finale] FIN 2k8 wish list
Dear Andrew, Bill Duncan has these in a variety of proportions in his productivity font set (hairpin font). They work well. My only reservation it that the lines are thinner than I prefer, and there doesn't seem to be a way to edit them, as you can in Finale's Smart Shape Options. That doesn't mean that I don't such a thing would be good included in Finale, but you might want to look at Bill's site, if this is something you need often. Chuck On Oct 2, 2006, at 1:48 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: For my own part, a feature I would like to see is a smart-shape swell. When you drag, crescendo and diminuendo hairpins would appear, perfectly aligned, and each taking up exactly half of the dragged distance. The space between the end of the cresc. and the beginning of the dim. would be user-adjustable as a Smart-Shape Option. Such a feature would be easy to implement, and would save me--and I imagine at least a few others on this list--immense amounts of work. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FIN 2k8 wish list
On Oct 2, 2006, at 4:11 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: with typos and missing words - now corrected below. Chuck Dear Andrew, Bill Duncan has these in a variety of proportions in his productivity font set (hairpin font). They work well. My only reservation is that the lines are thinner than I prefer, and there doesn't seem to be a way to edit them, as you can in Finale's Smart Shape Options. That doesn't mean that I don't think such a thing would be good included in Finale, but you might want to look at Bill's site, if this is something you need often. Chuck On Oct 2, 2006, at 1:48 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: For my own part, a feature I would like to see is a smart-shape swell. When you drag, crescendo and diminuendo hairpins would appear, perfectly aligned, and each taking up exactly half of the dragged distance. The space between the end of the cresc. and the beginning of the dim. would be user-adjustable as a Smart-Shape Option. Such a feature would be easy to implement, and would save me--and I imagine at least a few others on this list--immense amounts of work. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
Johannes, Thank you. This seems to be working on the parts. I wonder if I'm messing up score spacing as I am doing this, but maybe not. I'll keep doing this on some more parts with automatic update mm rests off and see if everything continues to stick where I put it. Thanks again. Chuck On Oct 2, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 02.10.2006 Darcy James Argue wrote: I also described (or tried to) another uncontrollable situation. On one staff line in a part, a 31 m. MM rest and a one m. pickup (with entries) at the end of the line. Finale will make the 31 m. rest and the one m. spread equally on the line, making the single measure look way too wide. So you drag the bar line and fix it. Fine, if you print right away, but go to another part and return to this one, and take a look. The spacing has sprung back to the default. I u Have you tried editing the multimeasure rest width with the Measure Tool (control-click the measure, select Edit Multimeasure Rest, and change the width)? I believe this problem would not actually go away by editing the width, either. The problem lies with the automatic update mm rests option, which is found in the document options-Multimeasure rests, which for this very reason should be switched off as soon as work on the parts starts. I have deactivated this option as a default after having spent hours trying to work out why the mm rests always reverted to the defaults after I had edited them. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Speed entry on a notebook
On Oct 4, 2006, at 11:44 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: And entry by computer keyboard still takes other passes for entering articulations and expressions, so it's not like there's much of a difference there. -- If, like me, you are still in the habit of using Speedy Entry. The MM guys I see every year at the Jazz Educator's Convention use Simple entry with a MIDI Keyboard, and that allows articulations and dynamics to be entered on the same pass with the same tool. They claim something like 40% increase in entry speed, and I have no reason to doubt them, but something in me resists re-learning my entry methods. Anyone else out there migrated from Speedy to Simple since this change? Have you found the changed method worth the trouble of learning it? Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Speed entry on a notebook
On Oct 4, 2006, at 1:23 PM, dhbailey wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: On 04 Oct 2006, at 3:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: The MM guys I see every year at the Jazz Educator's Convention use Simple entry with a MIDI Keyboard, and that allows articulations and dynamics to be entered on the same pass with the same tool. They claim something like 40% increase in entry speed, and I have no reason to doubt them, but something in me resists re-learning my entry methods. Anyone else out there migrated from Speedy to Simple since this change? Have you found the changed method worth the trouble of learning it? I don't want to use the mouse when using the keyboard. You don't have to. Articulations and expressions are entered via keyboard shortcuts which reference your own metatools. You would only have to touch the mouse if the articulation or expression you want is not assigned to a metatool. (even if there are mouseless keyboard shortcuts mapped for articulations/expressions, which I strongly doubt). How do you tell Finale which notes to apply the metatool to if you're not using the mouse? Davids I don't know exactly how it's done, but there are keyboard triggers for going to articulations and dynamics and, since you do it on the note you are on as you enter it, there's no need for using the mouse. This is all in the documentation, and I have watched the MM guys do it. No kidding, it's fast. The only thing that keeps me from changing my method is old work habits and dreading a new learning curve. (No small dread, irrational as that may be.) This has been around for the last two years, at least. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Speed entry on a notebook
See! I told you guys. Darcy, are you using this now? Chuck On Oct 4, 2006, at 1:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 04 Oct 2006, at 4:22 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: How do you switch between expressions and articulations? On Mac, opt-A to add an expression (or cmd-opt-shift-A to add a sticky expression that will apply to all subsequent notes until cancelled). Opt-X (or just X) to add an expression. Also: Opt-C to change clef, opt-K to change key signature, opt-T to change time signature. Clef, key sig, and time sig metatools all supported. On 04 Oct 2006, at 4:23 PM, dhbailey wrote: How do you tell Finale which notes to apply the metatool to if you're not using the mouse? The metatool applies to the note you just entered. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Speed entry on a notebook
I find myself aligned with the two Davids - thinking about and entering the music more or less the way they describe as natural to them, but I can't tell if that's because Finale's Speedy Entry methods have trained me to be that way, or if Speedy just suits my way of operating. My jury will be out on the subject until I have spent some time trying out the other method. When I'll take time to do that is anybody's guess, but I will give it a try, because I've seen those MM guys (mostly Tom Johnson) fly with it. Chuck On Oct 4, 2006, at 2:43 PM, dhbailey wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: [snip] I tried it out in the Finale 2005 demo. It feels a lot like Sibelius's standard keypad entry method. And that means I HATE IT. I don't think that way about getting the information into Finale, and that's one of the reasons I can't use Sibelius. It slows me down incredibly to think through which things I want to attach to a note after it's been entered (or before, if you can forecast that). For me (and I said FOR ME), a pass to get notes and rhythms entered is VERY FAST, and then I can go back and entered the articulations/expressions, set beam breaks, stem direction and correct enharmonics. I do all of the latter in a single pass, in fact. And that's the way I did it in Speedy with no MIDI keyboard. I just don't think in a way that allows me to be constantly switching between so many different kinds of entry. The notes and rhythms come first as a framework for the whole piece, and then the rest of the data is editing or entirely cosmetic. Perhaps I'm stuck in that mindset because I've been doing it that way for over 15 years. I'm with you on this point David -- I find that I can fly through note entry and then go back and do the expressions and articulations on a second and third pass and can work very fast. Every time I have to change something while in the middle of the basic note entry, as has to happen in Simple Entry if one is trying to enter the articulations at the same time as the notes, it really slows my workflow down. What's terrific about Finale is that there are the two entry methods, simple and speedy. And speedy is what works best to my mind (for me, I'm not claiming it should be this way for anybody else) which is why I can't work quickly or efficiently in Sibelius. Just yesterday, my son was staying after school to help a young woman transpose an english horn part so she could play it on her oboe (octave displacement not being a consideration), and they were using the music department computer which has Sibelius on it. They managed to get the english horn part copied just as it was on the page and couldn't figure out how to get it changed for oboe. so they called me. Now in finale, just a couple of mouse clicks to change the key signature and have the notes transpose upward and they would have been all set in a couple of seconds. In sibelius, nowhere in the manual is there an entry for changing the key signature for music already entered. So I had to fly by the seat of my pants and triple-click to enclose the entire staff, then get three menu levels deep to the tranpose dialogue, and set things in there. took much longer. I realize that some of that was because I had to figure out how to do it without the help of the manual, but now that I know how to do it, it will still take much longer than using Finale's key signature tool. Why Finale felt they needed to make their note entry mimic Sibelius' is beyond me. But thank goodness they left speedy entry alone! Whether it's an ingrained pattern of workflow from using Finale for so long I can't tell, but I do know that it took me very little time to convert from MusicPrinterPlus to Finale and it's taken me ages to try to convert to Sibelius and I still can't do it, my mind just doesn't work that way. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius as sequencer/sampler?
On Oct 5, 2006, at 3:04 PM, John T Sylvanis wrote: I'll have to hire singers and musicians which is very expensive. Hmmmn. I'm not so sure it would be more expensive than what you seem to want computer software and hardware to do, and there are a number of reasons why the results might be both better and more informative. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tie problem
Dennis, I believe that this is a Font Annotation issue. Darcy pointed out a few days ago (maybe that was off list - to me, I don't remember) that Font Annotation affecting ties happened around 2005/2006. In any case, I believe that the cure for this will be adjusting the annotation for these note head characters either by hand, as you've suggested you are doing, or by importing annotation files for this font from somewhere. Chuck On Oct 6, 2006, at 11:02 AM, dc wrote: I have some pieces that use an alternate black notation - where notes normally white are filled in. I've always done this simply by changing the font with staff styles. This has worked fine for years, but now, when I open these files in Fin2007, the ties have jumped away from the notes. I thought this might have to do with font annotation, so I created a file for this font, though I never had one in Finale 2004, and though I always thought this concerned slurs, not ties. But that didn't change anything. Any ideas how I can get my ties back in the right place? Thanks, Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan [was: Finale/Sibelius as sequencer/sampler?]
Just a quick response to the complaint about instrumentation in sample libraries. Whoever makes them and markets them has to decide what to include and what to leave out, just as MM must make similar decisions about their products. It seems foolish to criticize the exclusion of one or two fairly specialized instruments in a package that contains most of what most people will need. Some of us are lucky that Gary responded to our requests for the inclusion of the bass clarinet (for example) in the Jazz library. But if you write for a jazz band with horns, you need GPO. I see that as a packaging and marketing decision driven by things that are far beyond the control of any individual end user, and I am pretty calm in accepting that, just as I accept the fact that our 2002 Mercedes station wagon doesn't have 4 wheel drive (newer models, for more money, have it), which we need a couple of days a year. We are forced to walk or rely on our neighbors in those circumstances, so we either get much needed exercise, or welcome contact with our neighbors, who seem to enjoy the chance to help us. Do I sound like Peter Positive here or what? Chuck On Oct 6, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: I don't believe saxophone is included in an orchestra. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra I don't believe that the London Symphony Orchestra has saxophones in it. Ken Moore wrote: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Garritan also made money by not including some very important instruments in their GPO product, most notably saxophones and electric guitars and basses, very reasonably claiming that those instruments aren't part of the standard orchestra. So they then forced people who wanted THOSE sounds to buy an extra product as well. Very smart marketing. And all those people who purchased the standalone Jazz and Big Band product who still wanted full orchestra sounds needed to buy both products. Even more money for Garritan. Except for the sales lost to people like me who decided that the omission of the saxophone from the orchestra was such an egregious rip-off that Garritan was a company with whom I would not do business.* Look at all the 20th C. percussion they offer, and consider that the saxophone has been a regular member of the orchestra since before 1865 (Meyerbeer); and is used in important works by, inter alia, Bizet, Debussy and Rachmaninov. * I write only for human players, mostly my amateur musician friends, so realistic play-back is not a strong requirement. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan [was: Finale/Sibelius as sequencer/sampler?]
On Oct 6, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Steve Schow wrote: Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i believe your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more money from you later. Many people know that Gary Garritan is one of the nicest people in the industry, Amen - an unusually honest and decent guy who maintains that character in an industry that doesn't make that easy. (This after many days of personal contact and a few business dealings with him.) Chuck he has a well earned reputation for backing up his product with both support and enthusiasm, perhaps unprecedented. On top of all that his price break through with GPO was unheard of at the time. To complain that he left out Saxes on purposes is a cry baby banter. Please. Sorry you don't have your saxes, but give Gary Garritan just a little more slack. - |Music is a manifestation of the human spirit Steve Schow | similar to a language. If we do not want such [EMAIL PROTECTED] | things to remain dead treasures, we must do our www.bstage.com | upmost to make the greatest number of people | understand their secrets -- Zoltan Kodaly - ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan [was: Finale/Sibelius as sequencer/sampler?]
On Oct 6, 2006, at 1:11 PM, dhbailey wrote: Steve Schow wrote: Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i believe your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more money from you later. Many people know that Gary Garritan is one of the nicest people in the industry, he has a well earned reputation for He is probably a very nice person, and I would not characterize him as having left the saxophone out on purpose to force anybody to buy more product from him. But regardless of the reason, that is the result. Or is he planning on including the saxophones in GPO-II or something? I'm still awaiting word on the release of the Garritan General Midi soundset, something which has been listed on the Finale web-site but mentioned very little elsewhere. That will include saxes and strings, as well as all the basic General Midi sounds, but of course won't have nearly the depth of nuances that GPO has. I don't know when it's coming, but the last time I saw Gary, he mentioned that this was in the works and implied that it was an important addition to his business. Chuck So to get both saxes and strings in the same quality we need to buy two products. Regardless of the reason, the financial impact is the same. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan [was: Finale/Sibelius as sequencer/sampler?]
Interesting that celeste is not listed, yet that's what I always hear in Magic Flute performances and recordings. Seems OK to my ears. Chuck On Oct 7, 2006, at 4:42 PM, John Howell wrote: I think it was--or at least the late 18th century equivalent. I also suspect that the German Glockenspiel can actually refer to different instruments in translation. It's possible that celesta is one of them, as well as the mallet-played orchestra bells. What I grew up calling a Glockenspiel is more properly a Bell Lyra, which had to be played one-handed because the other hand had to support it in its sling, and that's the instrument that I'd guess was expected in turn-of-the-20th-century marches rather than the awkward-to-march-with flat set of orchestra bells. OK, I just looked it up in A Practical Guide to Percussion Terminology by Russ Girsberger, and it's just as complicated as I thought it would be. Glöckchen: tubular bells; chimes Glocke: bell Glocken: chimes Glockenartig: like a bell; bell-like Glockenplatten: bell plates Glockenspiel: Keyboard percussion instrument with steel or aluminum bars. In printed music, it may refer to a Bell Lyra, as used in German military music, or Orchestra Bells, as used in concert music. Glockenspiel à clavier: (Fr.) keyboard glockenspiel Glockenspiel mit tasten: keyboard glockenspiel. Whew! John At 4:12 PM -0700 10/7/06, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Was it a celesta? Dean At risk of being picayune, the Glockenspiel used in Zauberflöte is a keyboard instrument somewhat different in sound from the modern, played-with-mallets, orchestral and band glockenspiel. DJW Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you ever heard of an eleven or thirteen step program? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] High Society
Dear Stan,Lead Sheet (not including clarinet solo) here:http://homepage.mac.com/cisraels/filechute/High%20Society.pdfChuckOn Oct 11, 2006, at 12:22 AM, Stan Lord wrote:Sorry to impose on the list but I have to do an arrangement of High Society (with the famous clarinet solo).I used to play a big band arrangement of this years ago and, although I remember most of it, I need to hear it again to be sure.I've Googled a bit without success.Anyone know where i can get a midi file of this or a lead sheet?Stan LordUK___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting old files: ties and slurs
Dear Dennis, If it only that one note head, it may be easier to edit the Font Annotation for it in 2007, then all converted files with that note head will read correctly. Preferences/Program Options/Edit/Font Annotation (lower right). If you have trouble and need more details, someone else on the list, or I, will be able to help you. Chuck On Oct 11, 2006, at 4:16 AM, dc wrote: Darcy James Argue écrit: Make sure to copy the font annotation files from any non-MM fonts you're using into the Finale 2007 font annotation folder. Thanks, Darcy. But this is with the regular Maestro font, and more specifically with the square double whole note. Ties and slurs move away from the notehead in 2007. I think Chuck mentioned the fact that 2004 didn't use the font annotation file for ties and slurs, whereas more recent versions do. And this specific notehead is considered twice as high as a normal notehead. Since ties and slurs were too close to the noteheads in 2004, I used to move them with Robert's plug-in. But now there are too far... All this means I can't simply convert my files and expect them to look the same. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] High Society - corrected upload
Stan,Sorry - printed the wrong page - caught by Christopher Smith.Here's the right one:http://homepage.mac.com/cisraels/filechute/High%20Society.pdf (Thank you, Christopher.)ChuckChuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Getting rid of the attachments
Hi Jim,No, it wasn't an attachment that I sent. It was simply a URL link to my .mac account where whoever needed the file could download it. There is a slick $15 utility called FileChute that makes that kind of thing simple to do. I recommend it to anyone who needs to put things where other people can get them. www.yellowmug.com/filechute/ChuckOn Oct 11, 2006, at 8:41 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: OK--it APPEARS I got rid of ONE attachment by reinstalling some kind of S/MIME control that I had installed earlier in OWA. It doesn't say what the control is or does--perhaps some of you know--but it SEEMS to have zapped ONE of the attachments--the repeated message. Let's see how THIS one works! Jim From: Williams, JimSent: Wed 11-Oct-06 23:37To: finale@shsu.eduSubject: RE: [Finale] Getting rid of the attachments Could this whole point become moot if Henry simply set things at his end to block all attachments? I think Chuck Israels sent a "bona fide" attachment yesterday or today, but I usually don't see that many real attachments here, or do I just not notice? From: John HowellSent: Wed 11-Oct-06 23:22To: finale@shsu.eduSubject: Re: [Finale] Getting rid of the attachments At 10:40 PM -0400 10/11/06, David W. Fenton wrote: > >I'm not sure you have a problem, but it could be because I don't have >a signature or VCARD configured on my Outlook account. Those might be >what direct recipients are seeing, and including either of them as an >attachment is plain rude on Exchange Server's part. David, I got that attachment and it came through the FinaleList. (I'm using Eudora on a Mac PowerBookG4.) I've attached it, but I don't know how it will come through. It seems a totally useless thing to do, attaching a Word file that simply duplicates the text of the email. And the dumb Vcard (if that's what it's called) is just as useless, and just as annoying. John -- John & Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Getting rid of the attachments
Hi all,I had no idea that my"signature" was being received as an attachment. I thought it was in the body of the emails.Is this a bother to anyone?No one has ever mentioned it.ChuckOn Oct 11, 2006, at 9:01 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Thanks for the info, Chuck...I didn't know about that. I'll see if it exists on PC platform. Also...I see you have the ONE small attachment as well, the little signature of 198 bytes. JimFrom: Chuck IsraelsSent: Wed 11-Oct-06 23:49To: finale@shsu.eduSubject: Re: [Finale] Getting rid of the attachments Hi Jim, No, it wasn't an attachment that I sent. It was simply a URL link to my .mac account where whoever needed the file could download it. There is a slick $15 utility called FileChute that makes that kind of thing simple to do. I recommend it to anyone who needs to put things where other people can get them. www.yellowmug.com/filechute/Chuck On Oct 11, 2006, at 8:41 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: OK--it APPEARS I got rid of ONE attachment by reinstalling some kind of S/MIME control that I had installed earlier in OWA. It doesn't say what the control is or does--perhaps some of you know--but it SEEMS to have zapped ONE of the attachments--the repeated message. Let's see how THIS one works! Jim From: Williams, JimSent: Wed 11-Oct-06 23:37To: finale@shsu.eduSubject: RE: [Finale] Getting rid of the attachments Could this whole point become moot if Henry simply set things at his end to block all attachments? I think Chuck Israels sent a "bona fide" attachment yesterday or today, but I usually don't see that many real attachments here, or do I just not notice? From: John HowellSent: Wed 11-Oct-06 23:22To: finale@shsu.eduSubject: Re: [Finale] Getting rid of the attachments At 10:40 PM -0400 10/11/06, David W. Fenton wrote: > >I'm not sure you have a problem, but it could be because I don't have >a signature or VCARD configured on my Outlook account. Those might be >what direct recipients are seeing, and including either of them as an >attachment is plain rude on Exchange Server's part. David, I got that attachment and it came through the FinaleList. (I'm using Eudora on a Mac PowerBookG4.) I've attached it, but I don't know how it will come through. It seems a totally useless thing to do, attaching a Word file that simply duplicates the text of the email. And the dumb Vcard (if that's what it's called) is just as useless, and just as annoying. John -- John & Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Converting old files: ties and slurs
On Oct 12, 2006, at 4:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I wish Finale had better defaults so that it took less tweaking to get things to look right (why can't Finale get beaming right? Why do I have to run Patterson Beams on every file just to get basic beam angles to come out correct?). I have asked for this, formally through the Finale Support site, and informally when I speak with MM personnel. What I asked for was Patterson Beams as a selectable Document Option. Perhaps that's not the best way to accomplish this end, but it was how I thought to ask for it at the time. David, If you haven't already done so, please write Finale support and add your voice to my request. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Looking for info on Jeff Heist's transcription of Sing, Sing, Sing Part I
I'm not sure, but I don't think there was a bari sax in any of Benny's music from this era. I think the usual basic section was two altos and two tenors plus Benny as a soloist. Chuck On Oct 13, 2006, at 5:40 AM, Richard Willis wrote: Greetings, List, Does anyone know what the sax instrumentation was on this no longer published arrangement of this classic Goodman arrangement? I am playing a concert tonight and tomorrow night and have to sit holding my Bari while the band plays. What we have is clarinet, two altos and one 1st tenor. Was there a 2nd tenor (or Bari)? Anyone know where we could get the (possibly) missing part? ' Thanks in advance, Richard Willis -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.3/473 - Release Date: 10/12/2006 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] smart shape macro bug
Eric, I don't know if the kinds of things you need are in Bill Duncan's custom smart shapes. I use only a few of them, but it might be worth a look, if you use these things a lot. For instance, there's a combined ped...* that stretches and shrinks as spacings change. Chuck On Oct 15, 2006, at 5:22 AM, Éric Dussault wrote: It's an unbelievable time-saver, especially in some music, like with piano pedalling, or smart shape intensive scores. Le 06-10-15 à 08:12, dhbailey a écrit : I don't remember ever being able to make macros for SmartShapes. (WinFin) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: lyrics chord spacing (was Re: [Finale] Re: score vs. finale)
Christopher, Mark et al, I don't know how to get this right all the time. I start with left alignment for chords, but I nudge many to the left, and things are never really beautiful without more adjustment than I am willing to devote time to make. I usually settle for a general alignment and no crashes. I don't work with lyrics often, though I have similar problems and often adjust syllables. I'd be screaming about it, if I thought I was smart enough to come up with programmable parameters for consistently good alignment. Since I am not that smart about this, and I see many variables, I tend to think it would be difficult to accomplish. People smarter about turning visual placement into math may feel differently. Chuck On Oct 15, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Mark, Thanks for a great overview about lyric spacing. One thing you didn't mention at all is how the rhythmic value of the note might affect spacing, particularly if there is a long syllable on a short note value, like through on a sixteenth. I seem to run into this an awful lot, and I can NEVER get a measure with this combination in it to look right, no matter what I do. Possibly this is because I don't really know what takes precedence over what. On Oct 15, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: - I routinely nudged to the right any syllable ending with a comma or period. This falls under the rubric of mathematical centering vs visual centering. Understandably, Finale's basic algorithm is to figure the width of the text and center it exactly. But to the eye, the text's center of gravity is with the letters, not the punctuation mark, so the lyric looks lopsided to the left. To my eye, the period or comma does carry some weight, so I wouldn't center the letters alone, either, but it's closer to that than it is to the default. This is analogous to chord symbol spacing as well. The Finale options are centred or left-aligned. Centred is correct only for very short chord symbols, like C7. Left-aligned makes a chord symbol like F#m7 look too far to the right, but centred is horrible on that. I thought perhaps (to my eye) that the ROOT should be centred, and let the entire suffix flow off to the right. So C in C7 would be centred, also F# would centred at the point halfway between the left side of the F and the right side of the sharp. Or maybe there is some other alignment point I am missing. I am certainly not the first one to deal with this problem. I know Darcy Argue is constantly tweaking his chord alignments. Darcy, if you are reading this, what do you look at when you nudge chord symbols? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] fonts for jazz - comparison?
Dear Jef, I use Maestro combined with Bill Duncan's chord font (that I find to be beautiful, clear, and relatively compact in relation to its readability) and a few of his other special fonts for rehearsal letters and articulations. While there are some who like the Finale Jazz font, I find it unpleasant (I'm speaking in my courteous web voice - ask me what I really think!) and the idea of a fake handwritten font for computers simply doesn't work for me. Ash Music has a better one, but I end up coming down on the side of a font that looks like printing and using other elements of the graphic communication to convey the spirit of my music. Just an opinion from one who appreciates good graphic design and good music engraving and who is for sure a product of the jazz world. Chuck On Oct 17, 2006, at 4:21 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: does anyone have examples of the various fonts used for jazz, ideally this would be the same sheet of music in X versions, corresponding to X fonts. i'm interested in the music and text fonts, and not just the ones bundled with finale. cheers, jef -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
I don't know. The answer to this is un-cle-ar to me. Chuck On Oct 18, 2006, at 10:27 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Oct 18, 2006, at 12:27 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: There's a very large body of -cular words pulling the pronunciation in that direction, against virtually none that end with a sound like -cle-ar. This makes me wonder: do people who say nucular also say nuculus? Nuculotide? Enuculated? Nuculons? Nuculic acids? Just wondering. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:21 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Oct 18, 2006, at 12:38 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: I don't know. The answer to this is un-cle-ar to me. Of your mother's brother and your father's brother, which one did you find uncle-y-er? Actually, my mother's brother, Bob Commanday, whose music reviews you may have read in SF Chronicle, when you were in Oakland, although he had retired from that post by the time I remember joining this list and seeing your posts and some mention of Oakland. Chuck mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: fonts for jazz - comparison?
Dear Jef, I used to have something called Ash font that Iperferred to Rich Sigler's fonts, but i can't find it now, and a quick Google search did not turn it up. My response to the look of the Jazz font agrees with Christopher's, though I may feel more strongly about it than he. I just find it ugly - personal opinion, of course. Of all the symbols in the font, the quarter and eight rests are the most distracting to me. The quarter rests look like my students' incompetent attempts to draw them in their hand written assignments - like badly written 3s, and I admit to an irrational emotional reaction to that. I have had experience with beautifully done hand copying in New York, and I developed a deep appreciation for the elegance and legibility of a well copied part or score. Arnold Arnstein (sp?) used to do work for many well know composers, and Bill Rowen did fine work for the National Jazz Ensemble. Finale's jazz font simply looks to me like a bad hand copying job, and the idea of a machine attempting to imitate hand work is just silly. All the beautiful nuances and inconsistencies, purposeful and accidental, are missing, so everything looks false to my eye, and I find that distracting in some subliminal way. I also disagree with Christopher's assessment of the way musicians play parts written in Engraver or Maestro fonts. I manage to read Shakespeare written in modern typeface, and if my understanding of the meaning of a passage depended on seeing it as it would have been written in Elizabethan Englandwell, you get the point. I think clarity is more important than jazzy style - spacing, proportion, layout, all the things we work on improving all the time. If you are required to do this in a jazz font, I'd try to find the Ash Font to at least take a look. Good luck, Chuck On Oct 19, 2006, at 4:47 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: i'm possibly going to be involved in a project where the choice of jazz fonts or not won't be up to me. i haven't used jazz fonts at all, and the last time i compared any of them was around 5 years ago. i remember seeing 3 or 4 designed by someone whose name i can't remember (les somebody?) that i found quite elegant. what don't you guys like about Jazz (comes with finale)? is there a list of available jazz fonts somewhere? From: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd second this. Bill's articulations font (plus all his other great fonts, like rehearsal and enclosure) and Maestro font make for clear, professional looking charts. Chuck Israels wrote: I use Maestro combined with Bill Duncan's chord font (that I find to be beautiful, clear, and relatively compact in relation to its readability) and a few of his other special fonts for rehearsal letters and articulations. While there are some who like the Finale Jazz font, I find it unpleasant (I'm speaking in my courteous web -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: page setup in file menu
Dear Bob, I wasn't sure I got what was causing this problem, so I didn't answer. On further reflection, there's a menu for Page Format - Score, and another one for Parts (under Document Options, I think). Once that's done correctly, you should have no further problems except for the printer page set up adjustment when you print different size pages. I'll be home most of the day, if you need to call for more help. Chuck On Oct 19, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Bob Florence wrote: Bob Florence wrote: Hi All; This is pretty basic stuff. When I do a score for parts, I set the page setup for 9 1/2 x 12 1/2. When my parts are extracted, they are 8 1/2 x 11. Do I have to change each part or am I missing something? Thanks for your many years of help. Bob Florence Mac/Finale 2006c I sent the above yesterday. So far, there have been no replies. Bob F. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Bob Commanday [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
Hi Mark, I don't know how interesting this stuff is to the list in general but, yes you remember Bob correctly, and he still lives in Piedmont, CA. Chuck On Oct 20, 2006, at 1:11 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Oct 18, 2006, at 8:06 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Actually, my mother's brother, Bob Commanday, whose music reviews you may have read in SF Chronicle, when you were in Oakland, although he had retired from that post by the time I remember joining this list and seeing your posts and some mention of Oakland. Sure, I remember Commanday, but more from the SF Classical Voice website than from the Chronicle. I think I may have met him once, too. Wasn't he the director of Oakland Symphony Chorus way back when? OSC was my first musical contact when I came to California as a callow youth in the mid-80s. That was during the Joe Liebling era, but several years later there was some sort of anniversary event in which several former directors each conducted a piece for a sing-along concert. I think Commanday was one of them ... unless I'm getting him mixed up with someone else. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: spacing
Tight vs. loose spacing is something that has concerned me in my own work. I have written some complex piano vocal arrangements in which this issue has become important, and page turns are certainly a governing factor. I have tried to emulate the general density of classical art songs (Debussy, for example), and that means I do a bit of manual tweaking, especially when there are three or more accidentals on chords. I just assumed that this kind of work was necessary and have not considered the limitations of Finale's own spacing, though the discussion in the last weeks has lead me to understand that it could be better. I use Bill Duncan's lyric fonts (Times Lyrics and Helvetica Lyrics). I believe they are slightly condensed and/or have tighter kerning, so they are easier to work with and are still plenty legible. On the issue of wider spacing in pop and jazz publications: I wonder if any of that is a holdover from the hand copying days when rates were charged by page and the standard was (maximum) 4 measures on a line. This made economic sense for the copyist, and even lined up with the form of most popular and jazz music. I use tighter spacing on my own parts, because I don't like making the reader's eye travel so far to see ahead to the next measures, so I am careful to include other clues to the form. Chuck On Oct 21, 2006, at 4:20 AM, dhbailey wrote: Mark D Lew wrote: [snip] It's not hard to guess why. The software doesn't figure spacing very well, so the cost-effective way to (partly) avoid the problem is to just set everything looser. The problem seems to be worse with contemporary pop music, where presumably less budget priority is given to engraving quality than in other fields. I always thought the looser spacing was so there would be less music (fewer songs) in the same sized book, thus reducing the amount paid in royalties while keeping the cost of the book the same. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thumb Roll (OT)
No percussion maven, I - but I think you just hold the tambourine in one hand (by the place on the rim where it is normally held) and rub your other thumb across the head. I usually see this done with the thumb moving in a circular motion about an inch in from the circumference of the head. Experts are invited to weigh in, but that's what it means to me. Chuck On Oct 25, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Percussion mavens ... how is a thumb roll produced on a tambourine? Dean Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you ever heard of an eleven or thirteen step program? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thumb Roll (OT)
No Dean, The moisture is to make the thumb alternately dig into the head and then slip as it is rubbed around producing the roll. I suppose rosin might do as well, or maybe that's too sticky. I haven't tried it, but it doesn't seem to be all that hard (no insult to percussionists, who do plenty of hard things). Chuck On Oct 25, 2006, at 4:23 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Thanks .. I read somewhere it may involve wetting the thumb first. If so, I wonder what sort of sound is produced. I assume the fingers would be catching the jingles while the thumb is moving ...? Dean On Oct 25, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: No percussion maven, I - but I think you just hold the tambourine in one hand (by the place on the rim where it is normally held) and rub your other thumb across the head. I usually see this done with the thumb moving in a circular motion about an inch in from the circumference of the head. Experts are invited to weigh in, but that's what it means to me. Chuck On Oct 25, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Percussion mavens ... how is a thumb roll produced on a tambourine? Dean Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you ever heard of an eleven or thirteen step program? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you ever heard of an eleven or thirteen step program? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Just how good Google really is....
Why did I bite for this? My ego couldn't resist, so I spent the better part of the last two hours looking at stuff I said, stuff I don't remember saying (some pretty good, some not), people saying they like my work, people who don't, things I am proud of having done, things I don't remember ever doing, a smart aleck article I wrote for the MIT paper in 1958 that I wish had disappeared instead of being immortalized in a web archive, - arghhh! Chuck On Oct 31, 2006, at 5:28 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Randolph Peters / 2006/10/31 / 07:12 PM wrote: I do an ego-search every once in a while and often discover performances of my music that I didn't know about. It is probably good business practice to check what is being put out there about yourself. (This email, for example, will be fairly embarrassing a few years from now.) Same here, and I have been wondering about this. My CD tracks are being available for free MP3 downloads that I never authorized, and I was wondering if I need to do something about it. Altho I am not the type to be patient to purse these issues. I am happier playing music than worrying if someone is stealing my music. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Blue theme
Hi Dennis, I haven't heard this, but I will keep my ears open. There should be enough of us on this list so that someone might stumble across the ad and either know the piece or be able to offer an educated opinion on its origin. Chuck BTW, I sent the post from that Italian composer who had lost her copyist to my engraver friend in Vancouver, Greg Hamilton (I like his work a lot), who seems to have landed some work from her as a result. Nice resource this list, and it was fun to be able to connect people through it. On Nov 2, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Hi all, Is there an online directory of television and commercial theme music? My searches always dead-end. I've been wondering for some time if the tango-like theme for the American Express Blue commercials is a 'real' piece of composed for the commercial. If it's a 'real' piece, is it used anywhere else? I've found the ad agency site (Ogilvy) but it doesn't say. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Adobe Distiller Problems
I am far from an expert in this area, but this has been my experience. When I use Finale/Mac's built in .pdf creation, it works well for other Mac users, but when I send those pdfs to PC users, there are staff lines and other things missing. I have cured this by saving the material as a ps file (often with multi page documents) and then using distiller to convert it to pdf. This has worked consistently well for me. Chuck On Nov 4, 2006, at 9:36 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: This is different than my experience. I found that if a .pdf file didn't display correctly in Preview, then Acrobat 7 would probably display it and print it correctly. Usually these were .pdfs from PC users. Isn't this odd! Incidentally, so far I have been using Apple's built-in pdf creation utility with no problems, either with Finale or with AppleWorks with imported EPS graphics. I understand there are some features missing compared with Distiller, but I haven't needed them so far. Christopher On Nov 4, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Randolph Peters wrote: I don't know if this still applies, but we had a discussion about pdf anomalies back at the beginning of 2005. Here is what I wrote (and discovered) then: There are some anomalies on the Mac side of things as well when it comes to printing and viewing pdfs. I recently made a pdf of a Finale file using the new Acrobat 7 Professional print driver. There were some note heads missing as well as missing staff lines here and there when viewing the file in Acrobat 7 or Acrobat 7 Reader. The results were the same on screen and in print. I took the same file and opened it in the Apple Preview program instead of Acrobat and everything was there and it printed just fine. Go figure. -Randolph Peters Johannes Gebauer wrote: Godofredo Romero wrote: one way to avoid this is by first saving the document as an .eps and then use the distiller to convert it. Well, it is impossible to save this file as one EPS since it has quite a number of pages. I did try to save as PS and Distill, with exactly the same result. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] finale online support
Dear Jef, I have had varying experiences - some not too bad, but usually requiring a couple of communications before the problem was clearly understood and responded to appropriately. My impression is that there is pressure to give quick answers rather than complete or accurate ones. If you cannot resolve this issue directly with the support personnel, here is the person to call at MM: Jim Bruce - customer support chief 1-800-843-2066 xt. 3644 Chuck On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:25 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: has anyone else had problems dealing with the new and improved customer support? i have been trying to resolve a number of small issues via the online customer support, and am having to repeat information several times before getting close to an answer. it seems that the reps are NOT reading the case history, or even my messages completely; i have had to restate information a number of times becausde their answer was in complete contradiction to what i had actually written. i used to get fast and relatively efficient support when it was done by email... i am not complaining about having to do it online, i think having the case history in one place is great, but jesus, what the hell is going on in the technical support dept? is this a PR action or something? they are forced to respond in X hours regardless of how pointless and irrelevant the response, so they can claim efficient support their users? i have also gotten the impression that some of the customer support reps do not really know the programme that well... jef -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Movie- Hell is for Heroes
Keith, I don't know if Lenny Rosenman is still alive, but Jim Di Pasquale (a good friend - Hollywood composer and connected person) would surely know. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am an admirer of Rosenman's scores for a weekly afternoon TV series (years ago) called Combat. The show was a pretty ordinary war thing, as far as I can remember, but the scores were not only very good (Stravinskyan), but remarkable for their modernity in relation to the rest of the forgettable scores for similar kinds of shows. My knowledgeable, music critic, uncle, who knew him, steered me towards Rosenman's music when I moved to California (I'm no longer there) some 25 years ago and suggested I study with him. I never followed through. I would have learned a lot. Try emailing Jim. He will surely respond. He's the kind of socially connected guy who will know what's up. Please feel free to tell Jim I sent you. Chuck On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:16 PM, keith helgesen wrote: Again tapping into the biggest source of music info I know- Can anyone give me an e-mail address or contact point for; Leonard Rosenman(n) Born 1924 (believe still with us- hope so!) Wrote fabulous music for opening titles of war movie Hell is for Heroes !962(?) Tried Google- quite a bit of detail- but no Contact on info. Cheers K in OZ Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Mob 0417-042171 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] augmentation dots
Thanks Noel and Christopher. There is nothing in the measure in question to suggest that this below the line placement is correct, and it looks dumb to my eye. It may be an artifact of the part having come from exploding a staff in which all the notes in the chord had been entered, and the below center line placement had been correct in that staff and incorrectly retained in the new one. I'll try clear dot alterations. to see if that gets rid of it, or I'll move it by hand. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some arcane notation convention. Thanks again, guys. Chuck On Nov 12, 2006, at 4:43 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: Perhaps this is an indication of ignorance on my part, but it looks strange to me to see an augmentation dot on a middle line note (stem down) below the line, (which Finale has done on occasion). Can anyone tell me what it is that I don't know about this?TIA, OK. I had a hunch what the explanation was, but I tried the following to test it anyway. Opened document without libraries, and entered a quarter note on the middle line of the staff and dotted it. Stem is down, augmentation dot is above the line; augmentation dot stays above the line when stem is flipped. Inserted a half note rest before note (so that the dotted quarter note now begins on beat 3), switched to layer 1, and entered a quarter rest. As soon as I exited the frame, the dot assigned to the note in layer 2 moved below the line. This suggests that the behavior is an artifact of the behavior when stems are locked in a certain direction based upon whether or not there are notes in another layer, or not. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] augmentation dots
On Nov 13, 2006, at 3:10 AM, dhbailey wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: Thanks Noel and Christopher. There is nothing in the measure in question to suggest that this below the line placement is correct, and it looks dumb to my eye. It may be an artifact of the part having come from exploding a staff in which all the notes in the chord had been entered, and the below center line placement had been correct in that staff and incorrectly retained in the new one. I'll try clear dot alterations. to see if that gets rid of it, or I'll move it by hand. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some arcane notation convention. The easy way would be to simply go into Speedy entry, put the cursor on the quarter note in question and hit 5, which will change it into an un-dotted quarter note. Then simply hit the period to place the dot and see where it goes. Hi David, Tried that right away when the problem first appeard. It goes to the same place. I think it's some kind of bug. Chuck -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] augmentation dots
Hi Johannes, Don't think so, but I'll check. In any event, this is not occurring often, and it's an update of an old file. There are often anomalies like this that happen under those circumstances. Chuck On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:46 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 13.11.2006 Chuck Israels wrote: Tried that right away when the problem first appeard. It goes to the same place. I think it's some kind of bug. Are you sure there is no hidden note or rest in another layer? Sorry to state the obvious... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: finale online support
Hi Jef, I reiterate, please call this guy and let him know. It's his job. Jim Bruce - customer support chief 1-800-843-2066 xt. 3644 Chuck On Nov 13, 2006, at 1:25 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can't believe they are *still* using that customer support system, which has been a fiasco on all fronts. how else has it been problematic? i mean... other than the support kind of sux? i don't think the need to respond so quickly should be such an issue, they have a message called Researching that they could just post instead of responding with inane and even irrelevant information... The support personnel do not even have access to all the information you must enter every single time, and it would not surprise me if they don't have access to your case history either. after several exchanges with one rep, who clearly wasn't reading what i wrote, i was encouraged to submit my case to another department, and was told Please feel free to reference this case. i mentioned the case number in the first line of my new submission, and the response was a request for my serial number (3rd time in a week that i was asked!). i told him i had already submitted all the information necessary for the case to be processed, and he told me If you want full support you need to type the complete issue in this new case. I have no problem with a web-based support interface instead of an email-based one, but the system MM uses is an embarrassment. i think it's the MM people system that is the problem, not the online support system. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] F2007 music spacing disappearing?
Jef, This is similar to behavior I have seen in linked parts where adjusting measure sizes (widening one measure to accommodate chord symbols that would otherwise crash) would disappear, springing back to the original size, when the part is opened at a later time. I can't be sure when this is happening. I'm trying to keep track of it. Chuck On Nov 13, 2006, at 1:48 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: anyone else noticed that the spacing done earlier on in a doc is, well not entirely lost, but adjusted? i am working on a large orchestral work, completing it in sections (sections of similar material, not movements), doing everything from note entry down to final layout before moving forward. i have noticed several times that the spacing in several contiguous measures earlier on in the piece have been affected, the accidentals at the beginning of the measure now collide with the time signatures. update layout doesn't change anything, i have to do the music spacing again. this is a really serious problem, since i have to manually adjust positioning of grace notes (gliss end notes) according to context and possible collisions with other musical elements (we're talking 59 staves!). of course most importantly, since i don't know what causes how can i be sure the score will at some point remain fixed when i print it? jef -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: finale online support
Hi Jef, You can try (952) 937-9703, and then maybe you can get the same extension. I hope you will call. It's our only hope of improving a not so great support system. I used to really enjoy communication with a lot of the people there, and it's not so much fun now. I do get the impression that the executive level people would like things to be better, but whether they'll follow up and make the necessary changes is anyone's guess. Customer pressure needs to be applied. Chuck On Nov 13, 2006, at 3:39 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: chuck, good thing you reiterated, i seem to have missed your initial comment. is there a non-800 number? i'm not in north america. Hi Jef, I reiterate, please call this guy and let him know. It's his job. Jim Bruce - customer support chief 1-800-843-2066 xt. 3644 Chuck -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] page turns - a puzzlement
On Nov 14, 2006, at 2:41 PM, Bob Florence wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: Now I provide booklets rather than accordian folds when I get over 4 pages, and I NEVER let anyone else tape my charts unless I know they will do it properly. Christopher One more thing: I've never done booklets. How do I do it? Bob - take a look here: http://www.vpcinc.com/ This system will bind booklets with up to 12 pages more reliably than you'd think. There's a jig you use and some special tape, and it works quite well. Chuck When I do a concert, I send untaped with some instructions. BF ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Please don't all laugh and sigh ...
On Nov 17, 2006, at 3:02 PM, Will Denayer wrote: Dear all, I would like to ask something really very basic, but since I do not know ... I am still figuring out Finale and it doesn't go quick. I am not very satisfied with the GPO-sounds which come with Finale '07. The sounds are fine, but I would like to have more instruments. This is not something I am going to do immediately, but for the longer term, what is your opinion about the GPO full version? Are there cheaper alternatives to GPO? To ask something really dumb: what means violins KS? KS = Key Switch. It means that Finale uses a hidden note (key) to effect changes like pizz./arco, or cup mute/open in brass. This is done automatically according to the expression you put in your score. (Finale reads pizz. and that throws the switch.) I have no experience with other good sound samples, though others have said that good ones are available. My sense is that GPO is pretty good for the money. Others may weigh in with other points of view. They sound like regular violins to me. Suppose I write something and I use violins KS, violins pizz. and violins arco, what is happening in the final version? Finale will put everything on one stave, right (everything else would be ridiculous)? As for musical news, I cannot get over it. I bought a CD today with music of Nicola Lefanu, a British composer/professor of composition. Technically it's all perfectly written, but by god, this is boring stuff! This could open up a discussion of what makes non-boring music, and I'd have strong opinions on the matter. There is a lot of music that is supported by academic institutions that speaks only to others playing the same musical game, and a large portion of it leaves me cold, sometimes even offended, and I have no time for that. Still every now and then, I discover something I really like. Chuck Respectfully, Will Denayer Send instant messages to your online friends http:// uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Please don't all laugh and sigh ...
David Bailey wrote: Another thing to consider is that the physical sensations of hearing music live are quite different from hearing it recorded, just as looking at a picture of the Grand Canyon can in no way reproduce the sensation of actually standing on the rim and viewing it in person. Listening to music on records is like getting kissed over the telephone. - Jerry Rosen It's like eating a picture of food. - Bill Dobbins Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Violins KS
On Nov 18, 2006, at 5:59 PM, Will Denayer wrote: Hello Chuck, Jim and others, Thank you very much. So, if I understand this correctly, I can write for violins KS and when I want pizz. I can just write pizz. in the score and the program will recognise it on the condition that I use human playback? What happens if I want harmonics? Is there a list of expressions and symbols that Finale recognises and plays back accordingly? Just out of curiousity, if this can be done like this, why is the program still giving you the option of violins pizz. and arco in the beginning? Good question. Damned if I know. Chuck Jim, there is not really an error message, the program just tells me that the music has been written with an earlier version of Finale and that I need a plug-in if I want to play it back. I tried to reload the instruments, it does not help. Btw, I am not Irish, I live in Co. Cork, in the South of Ireland, but I am Belgian. I like it here, although the best place to eat out here is the hospital (as I found out past year after an accident). As for this CD, Chuck said it well indeed. There's a string quartet on it. Technically, I cannot write like this. It's very well written, but there is no life in it, no imagination, it never goes anywhere, there is nothing unexpected in it, I am sure we can discuss this till eternity, but there is no art in it, it's dead stuff, a textbook of academicism, I'm taking it back tomorrow. This said, I am going some sort of a phase these days in which many things begin to bore me, but, fortunately, I find new music which I find fascinating: Carter, string quartets of Gubaidulina (I really like this), Schnittke's cello concerto, symphonies of Petterson. Because we were discussing GPO earlier on, I went to the MM website, looked at the GPO full version and listened to some of the mp3's, among others of pieces which had won a composition competition and I really didn't like any of these at all. With best regards, Will Denayer Send instant messages to your online friends http:// uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Back to Finale - linked parts
Good news Darcy. I'm going to try this on the affected parts. Thanks, Chuck On Nov 25, 2006, at 6:34 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Chuck, Extracted parts inherit the appearance of the existing linked part at the time of extraction. You should (theoretically) be able to work with linked parts for as long as that makes sense, then extract out and finish your work in the separate documents, without losing any of the pre-extraction work. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 25 Nov 2006, at 7:35 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Is there a way to extract a part that has been formatted in linked form and keep the formatting? In other words, separate the existing formatted linked part into its own file, so that it can be edited as a separate document without losing all the existing formatting and editing? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Back to Finale - linked parts
Thank you for the suggestions Robert, Splitting parts in the score should make it possible to accomplish most of what I need to do. For some reason, that had not occurred to me, obvious as it is in retrospect. I can certainly understand the value of one document as opposed to many. That's why I am struggling to change established work habits in order to accommodate the inherent advantages, but I continue to stumble on difficulties that seem to be more trouble than I used to have when I had to duplicate edits in the score and extracted parts. I remain stubborn in my effort to convert to this system, but I am not convinced it is saving me time. If the end result is the same, and the new method simply takes longer, I'm not sure it is helping my workflow. I can understand circumstances in which the necessity of making many edits would tip the balance in favor of the linked parts, but I'm not convinced that it is helping my work. Certain kinds of music make the use of one part serving as a template for other parts a real time saver in the layout process, and that is lost with the linked parts system. Still, I hang on stubbornly. Thanks, Chuck On Nov 26, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: On 11/25/06, Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me too, and it is frustrating. Seems to me there are two choices: wait for a maintenance update in the hope that these matters are addressed, or extract parts the old way and lose the advantages of the linked parts (not so much of an advantage to me, at this point). On the contrary, I'm finding many shades of gray between these two options. Two that come to mind are: making a separate parts-only file that contains all the parts. This is distinctly preferable to a separate file per part, and there is zero chance of losing your current work. Freed from the need to worry about score view, you can edit the beam angles (and anything else you need to) in the part. It is probably better to split the combined staves into separate staves first though. Another option that I sometimes use is to make duplicate staves rather duplicating an entire file. This is effective if only a few staves need to be different in score and part. An example is for transposing instruments with a C score. If, e.g., only 2 out of 5 staves transpose, I think it is better to make duplicates of the 2 transposing staves. The parts reference the transposed staves while those staves are optimized out of the score. In the case of combined parts, if only a few parts share a staff in the score, might it not make sense to add duplicate staves for those exceptions and have the rest of the parts benefit from true linking? I do not share David Bailey's pessimism about future enhancements to linked parts. Without knowing much specifially about how Finale implements them, I think his speculation about what they need to do coincides fairly closely with what they in fact did do. If MM decides it is a priority, I believe they are in a position to provide (fairly painlessly) unlinkable beam angles, note positoning, and accidental placement, all of which are essential for achieving anything close to the real goal. I would be quite surprised if these were added in a Fin07 maintenance release, however. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Back to Finale - linked parts
On Nov 26, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: I continue to stumble on difficulties that seem to be more trouble than I used to Such as (beyond the beam angles, etc. we've discussed)? Robert, The main time consumer for me has to do with how long each part layout takes when there is no way (as far as I have been able to figure out) to use one part as a template for another similar one. Also, I have encountered some strange wanderings of staff styles, and it's been hard for me to nail down the moment when it occurs. On a file I was working on for the last couple of days (2 days of parts layout time for a relatively complex 200+ measure big band piece with some parts that resemble one another, and some that don't), on going back to the score after creating parts, slash notation style was lost in some places and had moved to other staves where it didn't belong. Of course, this is a bug - not a characteristic of the linked parts system, but it takes time to repair just the same. I want this to work for me, partly because I was one of those who asked for it, and partly because the editing of an existing work can be so much more efficient. If anyone comes up with a way of using one part as a template for another in this system, I will be convinced that there is no reason to look back. What you say below is certainly true in my experience too. It's just that there are remaining obstacles for me. I can't say that I am overjoyed with the way the show/hide system is working for page numbers, titles, and other elements that need to be different in the score and the parts. I'm not sure I can see a better way, but the screen seems cluttered to me when I have to look at grayed out things that are needed in another view. I can live with that, but it lacks a certain visual clarity and elegance on the screen. Printed versions are another matter. They look fine. My 2c. Chuck If the end result is the same, and the new method simply takes longer, I'm not sure it is helping my workflow. When I first played with the feature I shared these concerns. After using it in reality for the last few months, I'm finding it surprisingly useful. Although I have not yet used it for a major project, some immediate time savings are: * there no longer is a part extraction process. The part extraction itself is a signficant time drain if there are many parts that are complicated. And it is tedious and repetitive if you care about your file names. * printing is so much easier. You can print all the parts at once. The more parts there are the better this is. * switching between parts is far faster. Part extraction has always been for me a means of finding mistakes, and correcting mistakes is light years ahead of what it used to be, even if I have to correct duplicate staves. Also, now that I somewhat have the hang of how it all works, I don't find that I am spending time in new ways particularly. That's why I asked the first question above. ymmv of course. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Back to Finale - linked parts
On Nov 26, 2006, at 10:34 AM, dhbailey wrote: Williams, Jim wrote: [snip] Chuck, if the light goes on for you, please hit me over the head with it. Before I sent 2007 back, I reached the conclusion that the linked parts thing was right for a certain class of user--a class of user to which I don't seem to belong. While my determination doesn't match yours in this matter, I am willing to learn what--if indeed anything--I'm missing. I think you're absolutely correct that linked parts does serve some users quite well while leaving others with different problems which it only exacerbates rather than aids with. But remember that you can always use Fin2007 in the old-fashioned, make-a-score-and-extract-parts manner, just as Fin2006 and earlier. Indeed you can, and there are a few improvements that make the upgrade worthwhile for some, I'm sure. I find that I have become quickly addicted to horizontal scrolling, for one thing, and improvements in Human Playback are considerable, in spite of the fact that efforts to make notation play back like educated musicians will always encounter the law of diminishing returns. Many thanks to Darcy and Robert Piechaud (sp?) for all the work they have done to make jazz rhythms at least approximate good performance practice. Chuck -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Back to Finale - linked parts
On Nov 26, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Nov 2006, at 3:33 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: On 11/26/06, Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The main time consumer for me has to do with how long each part layout takes when there is no way (as far as I have been able to figure out) to use one part as a template for another similar one. I went back and reviewed the old thread on this topic. It seems Finale 2007 provides an superior way to do this, but not while retaining linked parts. The technique is to create one linked part, then substitute one staff for another in that linked part. (Make sure Space System Evenly is turned off in the Part Creation Options.) You get the new staff, but all the page formatting, spacing, etc. is preserved. You then save off each copy in a different file. Hey Robert, That's actually a very clever solution. It's quite similar to the old special part extraction method, and and it beats the pants off of pasting into separate files (which always makes me extremely nervous). Why, Darcy? I've done this forever with no untoward incidents. And Robert, If MM ever makes it possible to create the plug in you describe, I believe I will be only one of many grateful customers. Chuck ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Importing files
To add to Aaron's suggestion,there's a handy $15 utility called FileChute that does this automatically and generates a URL for the file at the same time, so that you can then email the URL to the intended recipient, and they can download the file. Karen Guthery recommended this application some time ago, and I have used it hundreds of times. Chuck On Nov 27, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:43 PM 11/27/2006, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: If one has a web site, how does one transfer a fin file to it? I just saw in your sig that you're on Comcast. Is that where your web site is? If so, then take a look at http://www.comcast.net/ storage/ Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Part Names after Page 1
Gerry, Set up a text block where you want it to appear in the score (and the parts - I put mine in the upper LH corner) and go to the insert list in the text tool. Insert Score/Part Name and things should work the way you want. Remember to set up the text block Frame Attributes to appear on page X through 0 - X being the place you want it to appear first (p.1 in parts and the first page of music in the score - actual page 3, if you use 2 blank cover pages, as I do), and 0 meaning it will continue as long as there are pages in the score and/or parts. The only silly thing about this, in my view, is the necessity to have the Score header on the score pages. Seems to me fairly obvious that it's the score, but I see why it is part of the way the system works. If that is a deal breaker, you can always hide that header in the score. Chuck On Nov 28, 2006, at 12:13 PM, Gerry Kirk wrote: In MAC-FIN 07: After page 1, is there a way to generate the instrument's names on their respective parts as either a header or a footer? In other words, the title, and page 2, 3, etc. generate automatically. How can I get Flute 1, Fl 2, etc. generated automatically on pages 2ff? Every time I try to enter a part name manually, it appears in all other parts, and the score. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin 2K7 Version?
Yes, still 2007. They are still working on the maintenance update. Chuck On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:40 PM, Neal Gittleman wrote: Is Finale 2007 still the latest version out? No 2007a yet? ng ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] using music fonts in MS Word 2004 Mac
Hi Claudio, You might have some success using the free Bach music font (just do a google search) for the accidentals. Chuck On Nov 29, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Claudio Pompili wrote: Hi I need to use some music symbols (accidentals, rhythms) in a paper I'm writing in Mac MS Word 2004. My problem is that whenever I insert a music font symbol into in-line text, the spacing of the lines increases wildly. I've tried Maestro and Engraver and Matthew Hindson's Accidentals and Rhythms fonts but still the same. -- cheers, Claudio Claudio Pompili composer, sound designer, music consultant http://www.claudiopompili.net.au/ (**2002-2003 Golden Web Award**) AMC http://www.amcoz.com.au ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Mp3 Files
Dean, Look in iTunes Help under - Convert to MP3. It's not difficult. Chuck On Nov 30, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Yeah ... I was asking about sound quality. What you say makes perfect sense. Darcy says that the coversion can take place in iTunes, so I need to see how that is done ... then I'll give it a try. Thanks, Dean On Nov 30, 2006, at 9:24 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:09 PM 11/30/2006, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: So, as I just asked Darcy privately, if I convert the WAV file to MP3, and upload that to my web page, will it play back with GPO quality (Full GPO or FinGPO)? When you make a WAV file, what you have is a CD-quality sound file, filled with whatever sounds you put into it. In this case, playing a WAV file created from a Finale file with GPO should sound exactly like playing the source Finale file itself (inside Finale, with GPO). When you convert a WAV to an MP3, some of the sound quality is lost; this is how MP3s are able to be smaller than WAV files. The lower the bitrate you choose for your conversion, the smaller the file will be -- but the more quality is lost. You'll need to listen to the files yourself to determine what level of tradeoff is acceptable. When you ask about 'GPO quality', are you literally asking about the sound quality? If so, then your answer is above. Or are you asking whether the file will still be based on GPO sounds or whether somehow the sounds themselves will be different? If so, then the answer is that the file will still be based on GPO sounds. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you ever heard of an eleven or thirteen step program? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] To upgrade or not
I am in basic agreement with Eric and I am hopefully optimistic that the maintenance update (on which MM is working) should make some things work more smoothly. Whether or no the linked parts will save you time depends on the kind of music you write, and how much editing occurs after the parts have been created. Chuck On Nov 30, 2006, at 10:31 AM, Craig Sylvern wrote: My apologies if this has been covered recently. I am currently using Finale 2006. I usually upgrade Finale every two years or so, but some of the new features in Finale 2007, especially the linked parts, are very compelling. Is 2007 different enough to warrant spending another $100 to upgrade??? thanks, Craig ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Orchestral Notation
Jackie, It is possible to enter everything into Finale at concert pitch (I don't do this myself, so I don't remember where it resides, but there is a toggle called Display score in concert pitch ). If you do this, you write at the normal pitch, and then view the transposed score, and all the transposing instruments will appear correctly transposed. They always play back at the correct concert pitch, whichever view you have chosen. Chuck On Dec 2, 2006, at 9:20 AM, Jacki Barineau wrote: Hi, Everyone... I have never notated for orchestra before and have a few questions... I'm using Finale 2007/Mac. I'm a little confused about the transposing instruments. I've gone through the tutorial on how to select the proper staves, etc., for each instrument. If I'm notating, for example, a Bb Trumpet, I know this means it has to be 1 step higher than standard pitch. If I'm in the key of C, it puts the key of D on that staff. Do I then notate as if I'm in D and think up 1 step for the whole song - or is there a way to notate everything in C and after the fact, tell Finale to switch that staff to a Bb Trumpet staff and have it automatically reconfigure the transposed staff for me? When I'm playing back these staves, do they play back in standard pitch - or in the transposed pitch? I mean - can I audition what I've done and hear it play back properly, or is it going to sound wrong because it's notated in D instead of C? Lastly... I'm confused as to what the alto staff is for viola...? Just not familiar with these alternate types of staves and need some guidance! Thanks so much for any tips! - Jacki - Personal web site: http://www.ourlittleplace.com/ Myspace page: http://myspace.com/note_master ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 DUPLICATING LAYOUTS
Dear Kim, Eric's response is correct, as far as it goes, but if you want to use the method that I used to use, emptying, re-filling, and re-naming parts, you have to extract them into separate files, losing the advantages of the linked score and parts. Sorry - that's just the way it is. I have mixed feelings about this, since there is a lot of time to be saved when writing certain kinds of music and using this template method. There are other situations in which having linked parts is a terrific advantage - when many edits need to be made. Chuck On Dec 4, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Kim Richmond wrote: Dear Listers, Forgive me this question, that answer which is probably well-known and obvious to all who are now using Fin2007. I have not converted from my 2005b as I am waiting to the maintenance up-date which should be out very soon (is it out yet?). I have a student where I teach Jazz Composition at USC. She has basically been studying Finale with me this past semester. She has Finale 2007 and last week we finally got to the Linked Parts, me having no experience with that new feature of Finale. Well, we got the first part and made the format changes necessary. Now, the question is: How do you model all the other parts after the first? It must be in Manage Parts under the Format menu, but we couldn't come up with the effective answer, even after referring to the online Help section. Can you give me some help here? All the best, KIM R ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] plugins and linked parts
I'd be one of many grateful people, if someone were able to accomplish this. Chuck On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:49 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: It is getting more and more annoying for me that plugins can't be directly accessed in linked parts - with the exception of TGTools. Which makes me wonder: Wouldn't it be possible to write a plugin which will collect all other plugins in a separate menu, and make them accessible in linked parts? Not that I am volunteering to write such a plugin, I wouldn't know a bit about this, but this thought passed my mind and I thought I'd share it. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] O.T. Christmas Trees on the Finale List
Thanks Kim, If it is still up, I'll get to see it in mid-January when I will spend a week recovering from Bellingham's imposed subdued calm getting a dose of my root culture. Chuck On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:23 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: With the cold weather and Christmas season upon us, I wanted to share with the wonderful people on this list pictures of the Christmas Tree that I'm so lucky to see everyday at work. This is Rockefeller Plaza's tree; and from what I understand, it's one of the nicer trees they've had. When I leave work at night, it's really beautiful to walk by and listen to the music and enjoy the lights--watching the skaters on the rink below. Since there are so many people on this list, it'd be really wonderful to see Christmas trees from your part of the world, so feel free to share ;) http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/christmas_2006/ are the photos I have posted. Thanks much, Kim Patrick Clow ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Speedy vs Simple
Every time I see Tom Johnson (from MM) at the IAJE convention, I see him use Simple entry, and he puts in articulations and dynamics at the same time as he enters notes. It is fast when he does it (about 40% faster, he says), but I have yet to make the conversion. Resistance to change? Obstinacy? I don't know. Maybe it's the order of things that confuses me in Simple. I am used to thinking pitch - then rhythmic value, and Speedy works that way. I don't think that's any more logical than the other way around, but I'm used to it. I'm interested to see if anyone responds to this question differently. Chuck On Dec 11, 2006, at 3:13 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I know this comes up every so often, but I wonder whether there are any true Speedy to Simple converts. Are there people on this list, who would consider themselves to have been really quick in Speedy entry, but got converted to Simple after Simple was improved? Can Simple be as fast or faster than Speedy is when it is used by a competent note enterer? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disk Utililty
Sorry, David. I think you did, by responding to it. I have my own opinions on these matters - personal ones, informed only by my limited experience. I respect the fact that your experience (and that of others) is greater. Every once in a while, someone will make a provocative statement on this subject, or a statement that may be seen as provocative. Here's a suggestion: if the statement doesn't need refuting because of an important factual error (not an inconsequential one), I'd consider ignoring it to be a gracious act. I'm ready to take a stand on topics of importance and to help others understand things in areas where my experience might useful. In the case of platform wars, I come in peace. Chuck On Dec 12, 2006, at 7:13 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 12 Dec 2006 at 20:57, Randolph Peters wrote: Could Eric Dannewitz and David Fenton take their antipathy outside, please? Tell Eric, not me. I didn't do a damned thing to provoke his effort to start a platform war. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disk Utililty
On Dec 13, 2006, at 11:06 AM, dhbailey wrote: A-NO-NE Music wrote: David W. Fenton / 2006/12/12 / 10:13 PM wrote: A factually incorrect statement was made. I corrected it. For what purpose in this particular case, if I may ask? Never mind. I realized I don't need to join this thread. Sorry :-) Does it really matter? People are telling David that if it isn't important he shouldn't have bothered to mention it. Fine. The rest of this isn't important, either, yet those who feel compelled to tell David he shouldn't have felt compelled to try for a more fair comparison are doing the very thing they're telling him he shouldn't have done. What's up with that? Is this pig-pile on Fenton day or something? Not my intention, sorry to have given this holier than thou impression (if I did). Just trying to suggest not rising to the bait every time this comes up. Peace, Chuck -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] O.T. : Ahmet Ertegun (founder of Atlantic Records) passed away
About Ahmed Ertegun: The Ertegun brothers (I knew Neshui better) were lovely people. There are few left from this era. I have heard from Jerry Wexler, one of the partners and producers at Atlantic (involved in Ray Charles recordings for that label). He is living in Florida. Don't know if their engineer, Tom Dowd, is still alive or not, but the actor they got to play him in the Ray movie looked very much the way I remember him as a young man. Orrin Keepnews - the Riverside Records honcho who produced early Bill Evans and many Monk recordings is living in San Francisco. George Avakian is in his 80's, active, alert, and great to know. I run into him from time to time, as we are both fans of Dave Berger's Sultans of Swing, and we meet occasionally at their performances. George was the producer responsible for the Miles Davis/Gil Evans recordings on Columbia, financed largely from profits from the international pop division, of which George was in charge. It's hard to imagine my musical world had George not had the vision to take that chance. Would that I had had the perspective to recognize the extraordinary commitment and courage of these people when I first knew them. Chuck On Dec 15, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: I know there are many fans of Jazz on this list (and blues as well): Ahmet Ertegun, Founding Chairman of Atlantic Records, passed away on December 14, 2006 in New York City at the age of 83. He had been hospitalized with a head injury since October 29th, when he fell backstage at a Rolling Stones concert at the Beacon Theatre in Manhattan. http://www.atlanticrecords.com has a wonderful tribute to Ahmet. Kim Patrick Clow ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007a Mac is out
On Dec 15, 2006, at 4:13 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: A big item is that plugins can now determine and control which part they act on, and any plugin can be recompiled to launch in part view. My plugins and the version of JW Space Systems for Mac that I have been supporting all run in part view in Fin07a. I would be surprised if TGTools doesn't already or soon will. There are also numerous bug fixes. But apparently not Stem Connections - arghhh! Chuck Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I looked on their site, and couldn't find any info on it. What's new in it? -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007a Mac is out
Hi Robert, Haven't tried them, but the Read Me says no. I will try and report back. Chuck On Dec 15, 2006, at 4:41 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: But apparently not Stem Connections - arghhh! I haven't been able to get my copy of 07a yet. (The server is exceedingly busy.) But I believe Stem Connections have been fixed. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007a Mac is out
The Read Me is incorrect. Stem Connections are accessible. What is still broken on the Mac side is the loading of a Document Option Library. Font selection becomes confused when loading a saved Doc. Opt. library. Chuck On Dec 15, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Robert, Haven't tried them, but the Read Me says no. I will try and report back. Chuck On Dec 15, 2006, at 4:41 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: But apparently not Stem Connections - arghhh! I haven't been able to get my copy of 07a yet. (The server is exceedingly busy.) But I believe Stem Connections have been fixed. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007a Mac is out
Dear Andrew, I created a correct (centered at the apex of the cross point) stem connection for the x note head in Bill Duncan's (and yes, we will miss him) Salzedo font and adjusted the positioning of the connection to the Salzedo font half note percussion shape, and everything worked as it is supposed to for me (on a Mac G5 running OS 10.4). So my only conclusion is that the ReadMe is mistaken. I should have tried it first, but I was so pissed off when I read it that I fired off a missive to MM's tech support, only to have to retract it. However, the silly loss of font selections when importing Document Options libraries on a Mac is still there. That's just an annoyance, not a work stopper/deal breaker for me, but I am certainly irritated that it remains broken after all this time. Chuck On Dec 15, 2006, at 9:40 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Dec 15, 2006, at 8:18 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: The Read Me is incorrect. Stem Connections are accessible. A great relief, if true. To be specific, am I to understand that the ReadMe assertion that Document Options • Stem Connections cannot be created, edited, or deleted on PowerMacs. is untrue in every particular, so that, if/when I install 2K7a on my pre-intel Mac I *will* be able to create, edit, and/or delete stem connections? If the ReadMe is correct, I would consider this a deal-breaker. I purchased 2K7 a while back but have not installed it because it is so buggy. If even 2K7a will not let me, for example, create a correct stem connection for an X-shaped notehead, then the program is useless for me and I will have to continue to rely on 2K4-- itself no prize. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] O.T. : Ahmet Ertegun (founder of Atlantic Records) passed away
Thank you for the information, Norm. Chuck On Dec 16, 2006, at 6:18 AM, norm wrote: If I am correct Mr. Tom Dowd passed away in Florida a couple of years ago. There was a film of his life( sort of a sundance festival type of thing) titled a life in music that bio'd his career. Very interesting guy. As an aside to his musical career with Atlantic, he was, during World War II, a member of the top secret 'Manhattan Project' which eventually developed the atomic bomb. If this film is still available it is well worth watching. Norm On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:09:01 -0800, Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: About Ahmed Ertegun: The Ertegun brothers (I knew Neshui better) were lovely people. There are few left from this era. I have heard from Jerry Wexler, one of the partners and producers at Atlantic (involved in Ray Charles recordings for that label). He is living in Florida. Don't know if their engineer, Tom Dowd, is still alive or not, but the actor they got to play him in the Ray movie looked very much the way I remember him as a young man. Orrin Keepnews - the Riverside Records honcho who produced early Bill Evans and many Monk recordings is living in San Francisco. George Avakian is in his 80's, active, alert, and great to know. I run into him from time to time, as we are both fans of Dave Berger's Sultans of Swing, and we meet occasionally at their performances. George was the producer responsible for the Miles Davis/Gil Evans recordings on Columbia, financed largely from profits from the international pop division, of which George was in charge. It's hard to imagine my musical world had George not had the vision to take that chance. Would that I had had the perspective to recognize the extraordinary commitment and courage of these people when I first knew them. Chuck On Dec 15, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: I know there are many fans of Jazz on this list (and blues as well): Ahmet Ertegun, Founding Chairman of Atlantic Records, passed away on December 14, 2006 in New York City at the age of 83. He had been hospitalized with a head injury since October 29th, when he fell backstage at a Rolling Stones concert at the Beacon Theatre in Manhattan. http://www.atlanticrecords.com has a wonderful tribute to Ahmet. Kim Patrick Clow ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: Finale Productivity
It not a book - it's a set of fonts, templates other special things that come with a manual. It used to be available at gwmp.com, but there's only a notice of Bill's death on the site at the moment, so there's no way of knowing if anyone will continue to make this material available. I don't know if there is anyone with the necessary skills who could be given access to the material to maintain it on the web site. I imagine that would be up to Bill's family to determine. There are a number of us who have found Bill's work very useful, and I'd be sad to see its availability end. Chuck On Dec 16, 2006, at 4:32 PM, Stephen Ellis wrote: Where can I buy this book! Steve On Dec 16, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Bob Florence wrote: Finale Productivity, a book by Bill Duncan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Smart line bug in 2007a?
Since I loaded 2007a, I am finding that horizontal changes in smart lines do not behave as they used to, and the behavior is erratic and useless. For example, I cannot successfully edit a hooked, above the staff, smart line. I don't think this is intentional or correct behavior. To me, it is a serious new bug. Chuck On Dec 17, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 04:45 PM 12/17/2006, dc wrote: Michael Cook écrit: All measure-attached smart shapes are affected by the same problem: you can unlink vertically, but not horizontally. I haven't noticed any difference between 2007 and 2007a in this respect. I didn't know that. That's probably the explanation to my problem. But why only one direction??? Ah, then see my other email. Measure-attached smart shapes are defined by where they attach horizontally in the measure. If you change that, by elongating the shape or moving it horizontally, you are not just changing a positioning option, but rather changing the fundamental definition of the shape. It would be like having one note-attached expression which you want attached to different notes in score and parts -- it goes against the base definition. This may not be the most satisfactory implementation, but I think there is real logic behind it in terms of the way the program works. (I also do well understand why it's desirable from an engraving point of view to have hairpins, for example, with different lengths in score and parts.) Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Smart line bug in 2007a? more weirdness
Aaron et al, New behavior has started since putting 2007a on the computer, and today I found that the same smart shape strangeness even happens when working in 2006c on an older document (converted from a still earlier file). Hooked lines are un-editable. I have never encountered this before and can't figure it out. Other smart shapes I have tried seem unaffected. This has nothing to do with linked parts and the associated changes in measure size between one view and another, it just doesn't work. Confused. Chuck On Dec 17, 2006, at 5:49 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 06:38 PM 12/17/2006, Rich Caldwell wrote: This is the main reason I cannot use the linked parts feature except for very simple music. The ability to adjust hairpins and smart lines is essential for me. This has been brought up several times before, but it bears repeating: linked parts can still be very useful even if you can't do everything in one score. Many people have been in the habit of making a score and then a 'parts score' from which parts are extracted. With linked parts, you may still need to make a parts score separate from your main score, but then you should be able to use linked parts from that parts score rather than extracting. There are many advantages to using linked parts in this way, and because your parts score is separate from the main score, you can change hairpins in the parts score (for the parts) without messing up your main score. I've tried to understand why MM didn't change smart shapes so that they could be horizontally unlinked. But... how do measure-attached expressions work? I'm guessing a little bit here, and if someone who knows more would like to correct me, that's fine. A measure-attached expression has an attachment point, which is specified in the Measure Positioning tab. When you make any subsequent moves to the expression, in the score or in the parts, linked or unlinked, Finale stores a displacement from the attachment point. This displacement can be different in the score and parts, but the base attachment point remains the same. For something like a hairpin, the endpoints -- where the hairpin begins and ends -- *are* the attachment points. Finale currently has no way of storing a horizontal displacement separate from the horizontal attachment point. So if you move the left endpoint a little to the right, either by moving the hairpin or just dragging the endpoint, you're changing the base definition of the hairpin, which affects the object in both score and parts. On the other hand, since vertical position is not part of that base definition, you can move a hairpin vertically in the part without affecting the score. It may be a litle easier to visualize if you think about a slur. Let's say you've got a 4/4 measure with a slur from beats 1 to 3. In the part you can lift the slur, you can stretch the slur, you can move the endpoints around -- and the slur will nicely unlink from the score, with Finale storing all of those positional displacements. But if you take the slur in the part and change the right endpoint so it's attached to beat 4 instead of beat 3, now you've changed the base definition of the slur, and it will affect the score as well. In other words, Finale can store different displacements for a slur endpoint relative to a common attachment point for that endpoint (e.g., beat 3), but it can't store two different attachment points. Again, I'm not defending the way things work as ideal for engravers, and I'm not saying that future versions of Finale can't or shouldn't refine the mechanism. I'm just explaining from the program's point of view why (I think) the current behavior is as it is. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: copy page layout
Hi Jef - Nope. Not possible so far. Waiting for someone to write a plugin that would do this, if that is even possible. This is a big argument for separate parts. I am hovering between the two systems - have been for months now. Each has advantages and disadvantages for my work. When the parts layout can be copied from part to part, then linked parts will win. Until then - it's a draw. Chuck On Dec 18, 2006, at 4:17 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: is there a way to copy the layout - # measures per system and system spacing - from one part to another? please tell me there is. would be a shame if this didn't get implemented, now, wouldn't it? -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: copy page layout
Hi Jef, I am about to try this on some parts I'm working on right now. I'll report on the results. Thank you, Chuck On Dec 21, 2006, at 4:38 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: hey chuck, more grand news. 1. TGTools: modify: transfer: layout: beat charts and measure widths 2. layout tool: **before** doing layout (*) select apply to PT/ SC in edit system margins dialogue and select the instruments you want the changes to apply to (! remember to change it back to this part only once done!!!) and set system layout as you wish actually there is (almost) no point in using finale's built-in layout copy function for large-scale layout duplication, because you can only apply it to one system at a time (uh...), but (here's another plug for our plugin godz!!!) i just did this with TGTools (same place as 1., how the *? i missed that beats the hell out of me). its taking me about 30-40min to do the layout for each instrument, i have 8-7-6-4-4 strings left; each group plays similar materials, more or less the same density, and although the measures they pause and play in sometimes vary a little, i just copied vlnI.1 to the 10 other violins, check through them and i need around 5-10 minutes for minor adjustments to the layout per part. i alkso copied to the 1st viola, will adjust that and copy across the other violas, etc. the bottom line: i just shaved about 20-30min off the layout of 24 instruments, which means i get to sleep tomorrow night (have to print on saturday or i'm dead), thanks to TGTools. (you can do this of course to extracted parts as well, i'm just pointing out that there is an easy way to copy layout across parts, and this seems to be your only hesitation in jumping to 2007 / linked parts.) 3. layout tool: using fit measure options cmd-sh-f set measures per system (*) there is a checkbox for this as well, but i can't seem to get it working here. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: copy page layout
Jef, I just tried this and it worked! How could I have missed this for so long. Only my reluctance to mess around with unfamiliar things kept me from trying this a couple of days ago, when you first mentioned it, but I am so grateful, you can't imagine, to Tobias for creating this, and to you for finding it and pointing it out to me. I'm sure there are things in Robert's plugins and other parts of TGTools that will be equally time saving and generally useful, when I overcome my fear and explore them. The only thing that did not paste into the selected destination file were the measure widths I had adjusted by hand. There were only two of these, so the time saved was substantial, 2 minutes instead of 10-15 minutes. That's an amazing improvement! This makes the linked parts work for me, in spite of the necessity to reconfigure page numbers and titles - one set for the score and one for the parts. If I can figure out some simpler ways to automate that, that will eliminate what, for me, is the only remaining hitch, and that problem is outweighed by the advantages even now. Thank you again, Jef. This is a big help. Chuck On Dec 21, 2006, at 4:38 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: hey chuck, more grand news. 1. TGTools: modify: transfer: layout: beat charts and measure widths 2. layout tool: **before** doing layout (*) select apply to PT/ SC in edit system margins dialogue and select the instruments you want the changes to apply to (! remember to change it back to this part only once done!!!) and set system layout as you wish actually there is (almost) no point in using finale's built-in layout copy function for large-scale layout duplication, because you can only apply it to one system at a time (uh...), but (here's another plug for our plugin godz!!!) i just did this with TGTools (same place as 1., how the *? i missed that beats the hell out of me). its taking me about 30-40min to do the layout for each instrument, i have 8-7-6-4-4 strings left; each group plays similar materials, more or less the same density, and although the measures they pause and play in sometimes vary a little, i just copied vlnI.1 to the 10 other violins, check through them and i need around 5-10 minutes for minor adjustments to the layout per part. i alkso copied to the 1st viola, will adjust that and copy across the other violas, etc. the bottom line: i just shaved about 20-30min off the layout of 24 instruments, which means i get to sleep tomorrow night (have to print on saturday or i'm dead), thanks to TGTools. (you can do this of course to extracted parts as well, i'm just pointing out that there is an easy way to copy layout across parts, and this seems to be your only hesitation in jumping to 2007 / linked parts.) 3. layout tool: using fit measure options cmd-sh-f set measures per system (*) there is a checkbox for this as well, but i can't seem to get it working here. -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: copy page layout
John, You can do it with two sets of numbers, one for the score and one for the parts and use the Hide/Show toggle to control them, but it's a pain, and things look cluttered with both sets showing, even when one is grayed out. I haven't bothered with this yet. I will continue to explore these things with Jef's help - and reading the appropriate pages in the manual. Chuck On Dec 21, 2006, at 7:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/21/06 8:42:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: set up the titles like you want them to appear in one part, check the settings (position relative to margins), delete, go to score view, assign the text you want using the setting from the parts. Jef Chuck: How are working around (against) the linked measure numbers? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FAN anomaly
In converting one 2006c file to 2007a, all ties are shifted away from the note heads (far away). Seems that this would be a FAN problem, but it hasn't come up in other similarly converted files, and there doesn't seem anything obviously unusual about this one (simple lead sheet). Maestro FAN files for the notes in question seem correct. Ideas anyone? Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2K7a dumb question #1
Andrew et al, Shouldn't it be possible to remove your Maestro Font Default file from your Finale folder before updating (not that I remembered to do this!) and then replace it after the update? Is there something I'm missing here. It did not occur to me to do this, so I spent hours reconfiguring mine, but it seems so easy in retrospect. Chuck On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Dec 23, 2006, at 4:17 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am not on Windows, but for an upgrade from 2k4 to 2k7a I am sure it would have to completely install new default files and settings, since otherwise a lot of new features of Finale would simply be lost. I just spent hours doing just that, and I fail to see how any new features would be lost if the installation algorithm were to copy, say, my shortened stem length from 2K4 to 2K7a. Or my choices of fonts for various items. Or any of several dozen other settings. The installation does, after all, read the user's midi setup and copy it to the new program despite great changes in the midi setup procedure. If it can do that, it can do those other things. And, oh yes, would it be so hard to have my preferences automatically copied too? I lost an entire day of productivity reproducing all this stuff in 2K7a, and I'm *still* not finished. :-( And on a related topic: is there any way to globally set the *length* of tie stubs? The only settings I know are for height and inset percentage. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2K7a dumb question #1
Sure, but I was thinking about those of us who are converting to the maintenance upgrade. I found that that move also destroyed my configurations in the default file I had made in 2007, and I could have saved myself some time and irritation! On Dec 23, 2006, at 3:42 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Yes, Andrew could simply have copied his 2k4 default file into the Fin2k7 Component Files folder, although he would be missing out on a lot of the new features, like auto-flip expressions and the cue note staff style. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 23 Dec 2006, at 12:55 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Andrew et al, Shouldn't it be possible to remove your Maestro Font Default file from your Finale folder before updating (not that I remembered to do this!) and then replace it after the update? Is there something I'm missing here. It did not occur to me to do this, so I spent hours reconfiguring mine, but it seems so easy in retrospect. Chuck On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Dec 23, 2006, at 4:17 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am not on Windows, but for an upgrade from 2k4 to 2k7a I am sure it would have to completely install new default files and settings, since otherwise a lot of new features of Finale would simply be lost. I just spent hours doing just that, and I fail to see how any new features would be lost if the installation algorithm were to copy, say, my shortened stem length from 2K4 to 2K7a. Or my choices of fonts for various items. Or any of several dozen other settings. The installation does, after all, read the user's midi setup and copy it to the new program despite great changes in the midi setup procedure. If it can do that, it can do those other things. And, oh yes, would it be so hard to have my preferences automatically copied too? I lost an entire day of productivity reproducing all this stuff in 2K7a, and I'm *still* not finished. :-( And on a related topic: is there any way to globally set the *length* of tie stubs? The only settings I know are for height and inset percentage. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another question previously answered
Hi Andrew, And I can confirm that this plugin does work, and that it makes working with linked parts in certain kinds of music (music with concerted parts having similar layouts) fully competitive with older extracted parts methods. And I had been crying for such a plugin - only to be told by Jef that it already existed. I'm sure there are more of these that I have yet to discover. Chuck On Dec 27, 2006, at 5:47 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Dec 26, 2006, at 11:34 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: Only a week or so ago, there was a discussion on this list RE copying layout info, page textblocks, and measure expression assignments from one file to another on the Mac (2K7a). If someone were to repost that, I'd be grateful. Yep, I kept that one myself! Here it is, from jef chippewa: Christopher Start Quote: hey chuck (et al) - yep. it's clunky, but: 1. TGTools: modify: transfer: layout: beat charts and measure widths 2. layout tool: **before** doing layout (*) select apply to PT/SC in edit system margins dialogue and select the instruments you want the changes to apply to (! remember to change it back to this part only once done!!!) and set system layout as you wish 3. layout tool: using fit measure options cmd-sh-f set measures per system (*) oh yeah you should also perhaps create MM rests in target parts, if not done already. (*) both of these are possible to do afterwards, with the selection of SC/PTs as described above.: click on a system and hit apply in system margins dialogue; click on a system, press cmd-sh-f and return. now... i might have just discovered that TGTools may have been the cause of the massive amount of duplicate page text blocks i mentioned a couple of hours ago, now back from printing, i didn't do much else except copy measure data across 60 instruments (several measures require very special treatment in many instruments), but don't really have time for more experimentation right now... in fact i should be pounding through parts rather than writing this email... -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers End Quote: ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Measure expressions MM rest breaks
Hi all, When you define a measure expression to break a MM rest, it separates that measure from a group mm rest. (I can't figure out how else it could work, but I'm hoping.) So, when you have a To Coda sign that happens to appear at the end of 6 measures of rest in a part, that mm rest will be broken into 5 measures of mm rest and one separated measure, with the to Coda at the end of that separated measure. It is possible to force that sign to appear as I'd like it - at the end of a 6 measure block rest, by applying it in the part to the first measure of that mm block, but that will not work with linked parts (or at least not without a lot more trouble showing and hiding things). Am I missing something here? Is there some engraving style reason for separating that measure from the block rest? Is there an easy way to accomplish the goal of - for example, a to Coda sign at the end of 6 measures of rest without breaking the block into 5 and 1 that still maintains the integrity of assigning the expression to the correct measure. This has plagued me for a long time, and I am only now coming around to asking for advice. Ideas? Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Measure expressions MM rest breaks
Hi David, The problem is that things don't work the way one might imagine if you leave that Break Multi-measure Rest box unchecked. If you have a 6 m. rest with an expression attached to the last measure, the program only accommodates (shows) expressions attached to the first measure of the mm rest, so anything at the end does not show. There are workarounds, but they seem kludgy and fussy to me - requiring multiple operations. I was wondering if anyone had come up with anything elegant. Maybe it's one of those things that is not easily solved, but I been surprised by my own blindness and the insights of others in the past, so I have reason to hope. Chuck On Dec 27, 2006, at 2:25 PM, dhbailey wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: Hi all, When you define a measure expression to break a MM rest, it separates that measure from a group mm rest. (I can't figure out how else it could work, but I'm hoping.) So, when you have a To Coda sign that happens to appear at the end of 6 measures of rest in a part, that mm rest will be broken into 5 measures of mm rest and one separated measure, with the to Coda at the end of that separated measure. It is possible to force that sign to appear as I'd like it - at the end of a 6 measure block rest, by applying it in the part to the first measure of that mm block, but that will not work with linked parts (or at least not without a lot more trouble showing and hiding things). Am I missing something here? Is there some engraving style reason for separating that measure from the block rest? Is there an easy way to accomplish the goal of - for example, a to Coda sign at the end of 6 measures of rest without breaking the block into 5 and 1 that still maintains the integrity of assigning the expression to the correct measure. This has plagued me for a long time, and I am only now coming around to asking for advice. Ideas? You mention expression -- are you placing the To Coda sign as an expression or as a Repeat? If you design it as an expression, you can simply leave the break multimeasure rest box unchecked and things should work as you wish. I see no way to accomplish what you want, using the Repeat tool version of that sign. There are no options in the Repeat menu or Document Options to not break multi-measure rests for repeats. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Measure expressions MM rest breaks
See, now there's a solution that hadn't occurred to me. (See below) As usual, a simple enough one - lateral thinking. Thank you John, I will try this. Chuck On Dec 27, 2006, at 5:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/27/06 7:30:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is that things don't work the way one might imagine if you leave that Break Multi-measure Rest box unchecked. If you have a 6 m. rest with an expression attached to the last measure, the program only accommodates (shows) expressions attached to the first measure of the mm rest, so anything at the end does not show. There are workarounds, but they seem kludgy and fussy to me - requiring multiple operations. I was wondering if anyone had come up with anything elegant. Maybe it's one of those things that is not easily solved, but I been surprised by my own blindness and the insights of others in the past, so I have reason to hope. Chuck Hi Chuck - I know what you mean and feel your pain. Remember the days when there really weren't options to avoid having expressions swallowed up by mm rests? Regarding your issue - I always pay close attention when there are roadmap instructions like to Coda, etc. so they make it into the parts regardless of the material. In your situation, I find it useful to attach the expression (btw - if it was repeat text, I think it would split out the MM rest anyway) to the measure FOLLOWING the actual to coda jump (which is never part of a MM rest). The only time this doesn't work right is if there is a page break at that spot. This way it doesn't interfere with the MM rest and never gets buried. You can set the text positioning to right align on the left barline and it even places it properly (mostly). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Bill Duncan
I have heard from Marj Strouse, Bill Duncan's sister. Bill died of cardiovascular disease. there will be a memorial service in Seattle on Jan 27th. More info as I get it. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Measure expressions MM rest breaks
On Dec 28, 2006, at 2:20 AM, dhbailey wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: Hi David, The problem is that things don't work the way one might imagine if you leave that Break Multi-measure Rest box unchecked. If you have a 6 m. rest with an expression attached to the last measure, the program only accommodates (shows) expressions attached to the first measure of the mm rest, so anything at the end does not show. There are workarounds, but they seem kludgy and fussy to me - requiring multiple operations. I was wondering if anyone had come up with anything elegant. Maybe it's one of those things that is not easily solved, but I been surprised by my own blindness and the insights of others in the past, so I have reason to hope. [snip] Perhaps you could place it as a text block after the multimeasure rest is created? David, - that would work. I have written MM about this, asking for a Show in MM Rest toggle. We can hope. Thanks, Chuck -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Measure expressions MM rest breaks
On Dec 29, 2006, at 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: placing the text in the following measure is only fine when the MM rest and following measure are on the same system. another option is to define a real whole rest in the measure taht should appear with the text expression. (finale 2007) if the measure itself should not appear, but the text expression from the last measure in the MM rest is meant to appear you could also attach it to the first measure in the MM rest (it is now attached to two separate maesures) and hide it, forcing it to show only in the necessary parts. This is an acceptable solution, but a kludgy one. This is how I have done it on extracted parts which don't require the extra show/hide step. All the suggested solutions will work, one way or another, but this remains one of those things for which Finale forces one to use a workaround. I have asked MM for a better solution. We can hope, and wait. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] ScoreGroove
On Dec 31, 2006, at 9:48 AM, John Howell wrote: But of course there's a broad area of crossover. When I write for our community band in a pop style and specify drum set, I leave the part open and just specify, i.e., 8 bars jazz waltz. But that can't always work, as witness watching the guy who TRIES to play set with the Boston Pops--one heckofa percussionist, I'm sure, but NOT the instincts of a good set player!!! I have no idea who that is now - but it used to be Freddie Buda, and he was quite good. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT trouble sending pdf files
Hi all, I am on a Mac, and I send pdfs of scores to a friend in NY who has a PC. He receives them as .mime files (I don't know what they are) even though I send pdfs. I have taken care to make the pdfs readable by creating ps files and distilling them to pdfs, which has sometimes worked in the past. This is a 26 page score, and he cannot open it. Anyone have any helpful information? I don't know why I am sending one thing and he is receiving another. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT trouble sending pdf files
I am trying each suggestion in turn - so far without success. The file, as it leaves here, has either a .pdf extension, or a .zip extension. My friend cannot open either of them, and I think that this is more likely to be a problem on his end than mine (he's on AOL, and I seem to remember people saying that troubles like this were common there). Nevertheless, I am trying do do what I can to make this possible. The files are 318 k. I don't know if that is particularly large for this kind of email attachment transfer. Meanwhile, we have had success transferring things by my placing them in my public folder on my iDisk where he can find them and download them. So this is a solution. I'd just like to know what's going on and try to identify the attachment problem - as much for my own edification as anything else. I sent the file - as a pdf and as a zip - to David Fenton, who volunteered to look at what comes out on his end on his PC. (They do have the appropriate extensions on them as they leave here.) That was generous of him, and I am curious about the result. Chuck On Jan 2, 2007, at 8:38 AM, John Roberts wrote: Christopher's suggestion to add a .pdf suffix to the Mac file is a very good one, an easy one, and definitely the thing to do first. If that doesn't work, then try the more involved suggestions. Let us know if it works in your case. John Roberts On 1/2/07 10:33 AM, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi all, I am on a Mac, and I send pdfs of scores to a friend in NY who has a PC. He receives them as .mime files (I don't know what they are) even though I send pdfs. I have taken care to make the pdfs readable by creating ps files and distilling them to pdfs, which has sometimes worked in the past. This is a 26 page score, and he cannot open it. Anyone have any helpful information? I don't know why I am sending one thing and he is receiving another. The .mime suffix indicates a coding for attachments. The suffix might have been tacked on there because you didn't already have a suffix (I have found it saves LOTS of bother just to make sure that the file HAS .pdf on it, even though Macs don't need it, so that the app association is always clear, especially to PC users) or it might indicate that the requisite decoding has not taken place on his end. I recently discovered a file sending site that allows you to send large files (though this isn't really large, it might be useful anyway) for free. www.transferbigfiles.com It sends an email notice to the recipient and he just clicks the link and downloads it at his leisure, no coding issues, no mailbox full messages, no problems at all. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT trouble sending pdf files
On Jan 2, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Thurletta Brown-Gavins wrote: Christopher, Thanks for the wonderful tip about www.transferbigfiles.com! My iDisk transfers don't always work for Windows users and this is an outstanding service! Chuck, with OS 10.3.9, instead of distilling, etc., I hit Print and there is an option to Save as PDF there. I know that's there. It was the trouble I had with sending to this recipient that made me buy Adobe Acrobat and save PostScript files as an interim step. If this is generally a waste of time and computing, I'd like to know about it. Thanks, Chuck Have had much success with that method of making pdfs...of course, nothing really helps much if the intended recipient is an AOLer. :) Thurletta Brown-Gavins On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:02:16 -0500 Chuck Israels wrote: SNIP! I recently discovered a file sending site that allows you to send large files (though this isn't really large, it might be useful anyway) for free. www.transferbigfiles.com It sends an email notice to the recipient and he just clicks the link and downloads it at his leisure, no coding issues, no mailbox full messages, no problems at all. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT trouble sending pdf files
Martin Vognsen explains it all! Thank you. Chuck On Jan 3, 2007, at 2:16 AM, Martin Vognsen DR Nodearkivet wrote: Chuck, this is what happens: Your email client (like all email clients) automatically encodes the attachment into MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions.) MIME is basically a protocol to convert binary files into plain text (as someone mentioned already) that can be transmitted via SMTP. The receiver's email client must decode the MIME file - this usually just happens behind the scenes. AOL will add the MIME extension (.mme or .mim) to an attachment it isn't able to decode. To decode a MIME file, the receiver should use a --- I know this will shock you ;-) --- MIME decoder. WinZip should do the trick. Otherwise search the web for MIME decoders. So just to be clear: You don't have to zip the file before you send it, the receiver can still decode it with WinZip, as WinZip should have MIME (and UUE, btw) decoding functionality (possibly more extensive than AOL client). However, you might still like to compress an attachment as a Zip file, because a server might reject exotic file extensions, such as .mus. Also, sending attachments without extensions - as is common with Mac files - might get you into trouble with servers or email clients, plus the receiver would have to add the extension anyway for Windows to recognize the file. So always to use extensions is a good advice. Btw, many corporate networks block AOL for security reasons, so that's one (more) reason not to use AOL. For instance, I can't even receive email from AOL users. (Usually the security concern is not to have an AOL client inside the network, but that's another discussion.) Hope that helps, Martin PS I don't post here very often, and frankly I am not sure this message will appear correctly in the thread, as I am replying to a digest message. Sorry for any inconveniences. Message: 7 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 07:01:25 -0800 From: Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Finale] OT trouble sending pdf files To: finale@shsu.edu Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi all, I am on a Mac, and I send pdfs of scores to a friend in NY who has a PC. He receives them as .mime files (I don't know what they are) even though I send pdfs. I have taken care to make the pdfs readable by creating ps files and distilling them to pdfs, which has sometimes worked in the past. This is a 26 page score, and he cannot open it. Anyone have any helpful information? I don't know why I am sending one thing and he is receiving another. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] drum notation (jazz)
Hi Bob, I put slashes in layer 1, and cues in layer 3 (no particular difference there). There are occasional moments when a bass drum hit is notated in layer 2, and I also find that I have some specific ideas that I take the trouble to write in to the part - notating cymbals, snare, toms and bass drum. Perhaps this is a result of the fact that much of my music is played by student ensembles here at Western Washington U., and they come to it with so little background. Some professional drummers are irritated by seeing things that they play with apparent ease fully written out. I don't know how to resolve that issue, and I suspect that the right choices will be governed by the specific needs of the music. I have had experience with complex drum parts - intimately integrated into the ensemble writing. Bill Goodwin read and played them very well, after which I told him he knew the music well enough to play it without reading it. Great result. I don't know if it would have happened so quickly, if I hadn't taken all that trouble in the first place. I love good drummers. Chuck On Jan 3, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Bob Florence wrote: For those of you who are jazz composers/arrangers (Darcy, Christopher S, Carl D, Chuck I). I do drum parts with slashes in layer 1 and cues in layer 4. It it still a common practice to put any bass cues in layer 2? Thanks to you all: Bob Florence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] drum notation (jazz)
Dear Mike, Here's an example of a pretty specific part - lots of detail. They are not all this complex. http://homepage.mac.com/cisraels/filechute/Perhaps%20-%20Drums.pdf I hope this is helpful. Chuck On Jan 3, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Mike Greensill wrote: Dear Chuck/Bob Would you be willing to share with us just a snippit of one of your drum parts. So that we can see your methods. I don't quite understand the slashes in layer 1 and cues in layer 3 part. Do you put the slashes, as usual in the middle of the stave to indicate time, and the cues when needed above the staff? How do you deal with long stretches of just playing? I produce multimeasure rests in the part, make them blank with staff styles, then use the expression tool to write in the staff PLAY 8 etc. just as if I was doing the part by hand. Is there an easier way? Mike Greensill www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
