Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

LOL. The 8 Bit Guy put out an interesting video on how he's preparing for the 
next Texas power outage. https://youtu.be/RhTDneoDUdc

I thought it was pretty well reasoned. Doesn't fit with my life particularly 
but it seems to work for him.

-Curt


On Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 04:03:16 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote: 


I suppose in theory you could also run an icemaker during the day and use that 
for air-conditioning at night but you'd also need to look at the costs of 
integrating that into your HVAC.


On Tue, May 31, 2022, at 2:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> The panels have gotten a LOT cheaper too. About 10 years ago I was 
> thinking of solar hot water instead of PV, the payoff was a lot sooner. 
> These days you can overbuild PV and use an electric hot water heater as 
> a dump load, so when you're making more power than you need you just 
> dump it into making hot water and get the same payoff as doing solar 
> hot water.
>
> -Curt
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 12:20:51 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote: 
>
>
> The panels keep getting more efficient so the payoff particulars keeps
> changing. They supposedly collect power from the scattered light on the
> back side of the chips now also, for instance. So I think some shadier
> places that would not be suitable are now more suitable. But depends upon
> local laws also. They have net zero metering ones that never put power into
> the grid beyond what you use, if you live in one of those communist states
> that refuses to pay you for power you generate ;-)
>
> Fire is the main reason a lot of policies are getting cancelled in the SW.
> We went with stucco and a metal roof but should have boxed in the eaves
> also with stucco, as that is where the roofs often catch fire. Plus be sure
> your roof vents and hvac air intakes all have 1/8" metal screens, rather
> than 1/4", which lets too many embers in. 11 houses burned across the
> street in the next block up during the Getty fire.
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:00 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Heh. Don’t come to Florida. That’s the first thing they’ll go after. If
>> you’ve got a roof that’s more than about 10-12 years old you’ll have a
>> tough time getting a policy.
>>
>> The roof on the Flagstaff house is 20 years old and definitely worn. It’s
>> asphalt shingles and a relatively low pitch. They definitely have some wear
>> and are getting brittle. We knew this when we bought the place and fully
>> expected to have to put a roof on in the next 2-3 years anyway.
>>
>> This is only one of a number of reasons the insurance company booted us.
>> We screwed up and went cheap, through a value-added service our long time
>> mortgage broker offered. The policy was with “Hippo”, a totally online home
>> insurer. They were easily $600 less than Allstate, our insurer of first
>> resort. We’re talking $1800 vs. $1200. I should have known something was
>> fishy here.
>>
>> About 3-4 months ago I got a copy of their underwriter’s report. I read
>> through it line by line and realized when I was done that this didn’t even
>> sound like our house. It wasn’t minor stuff, it was things like them saying
>> it was slab-on-grade when it’s on a foundation with a crawl space. They
>> didn’t even list the garage or note that it had living space (casita) in it.
>>
>> I made a list of discrepancies and called them. Had to leave a message
>> with a customer service person, as I wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone in
>> underwriting. About two weeks later I get a call from someone in
>> Underwriting, and they told me they corrected some of the discrepancies I
>> pointed out, but the rest were “minor” issues I “shouldn’t worry about”.
>> Yeah, that gave me the warm fuzzies, for sure.
>>
>> So this morning I get an email from them with a non-renewal notice:
>>
>> "Stairs, porches or decks without a properly installed railing does not
>> meet underwriting eligibility. General condition of roof does not meet
>> underwriting eligibility. Unable to verify that the major systems of the
>> home have been updated.”
>>
>> There are steps to the side door of the house made of pavers,
>> professionally done by the PO, but there’s no handrail. Think 180 degree 6”
>> rise steps against the exterior wall, four or five high, I think. Yeah,
>> I’ll give them the roof. “Unable to verify major systems”? They never
>> inspected the house or even asked to. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, all
>> redone.
>>
>> They screwed up and pooched this one, so they’re bailing. It’s that
>> simple. And that’s no doubt why they were so cheap, too. That’s on me, I
>> should have known better.
>>
>> So tomorrow morning I’ll call our Allstate agent in Flagstaff.
>>
>> -D
>>
>> > On May 30, 2022, at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Never heard of insurance canceling because of the age of the roof. I've
>> also had roofs redone a couple of times and 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I suppose in theory you could also run an icemaker during the day and use that 
for air-conditioning at night but you'd also need to look at the costs of 
integrating that into your HVAC.


On Tue, May 31, 2022, at 2:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> The panels have gotten a LOT cheaper too. About 10 years ago I was 
> thinking of solar hot water instead of PV, the payoff was a lot sooner. 
> These days you can overbuild PV and use an electric hot water heater as 
> a dump load, so when you're making more power than you need you just 
> dump it into making hot water and get the same payoff as doing solar 
> hot water.
>
> -Curt
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 12:20:51 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote: 
>
>
> The panels keep getting more efficient so the payoff particulars keeps
> changing. They supposedly collect power from the scattered light on the
> back side of the chips now also, for instance. So I think some shadier
> places that would not be suitable are now more suitable. But depends upon
> local laws also. They have net zero metering ones that never put power into
> the grid beyond what you use, if you live in one of those communist states
> that refuses to pay you for power you generate ;-)
>
> Fire is the main reason a lot of policies are getting cancelled in the SW.
> We went with stucco and a metal roof but should have boxed in the eaves
> also with stucco, as that is where the roofs often catch fire. Plus be sure
> your roof vents and hvac air intakes all have 1/8" metal screens, rather
> than 1/4", which lets too many embers in. 11 houses burned across the
> street in the next block up during the Getty fire.
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:00 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Heh. Don’t come to Florida. That’s the first thing they’ll go after. If
>> you’ve got a roof that’s more than about 10-12 years old you’ll have a
>> tough time getting a policy.
>>
>> The roof on the Flagstaff house is 20 years old and definitely worn. It’s
>> asphalt shingles and a relatively low pitch. They definitely have some wear
>> and are getting brittle. We knew this when we bought the place and fully
>> expected to have to put a roof on in the next 2-3 years anyway.
>>
>> This is only one of a number of reasons the insurance company booted us.
>> We screwed up and went cheap, through a value-added service our long time
>> mortgage broker offered. The policy was with “Hippo”, a totally online home
>> insurer. They were easily $600 less than Allstate, our insurer of first
>> resort. We’re talking $1800 vs. $1200. I should have known something was
>> fishy here.
>>
>> About 3-4 months ago I got a copy of their underwriter’s report. I read
>> through it line by line and realized when I was done that this didn’t even
>> sound like our house. It wasn’t minor stuff, it was things like them saying
>> it was slab-on-grade when it’s on a foundation with a crawl space. They
>> didn’t even list the garage or note that it had living space (casita) in it.
>>
>> I made a list of discrepancies and called them. Had to leave a message
>> with a customer service person, as I wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone in
>> underwriting. About two weeks later I get a call from someone in
>> Underwriting, and they told me they corrected some of the discrepancies I
>> pointed out, but the rest were “minor” issues I “shouldn’t worry about”.
>> Yeah, that gave me the warm fuzzies, for sure.
>>
>> So this morning I get an email from them with a non-renewal notice:
>>
>> "Stairs, porches or decks without a properly installed railing does not
>> meet underwriting eligibility. General condition of roof does not meet
>> underwriting eligibility. Unable to verify that the major systems of the
>> home have been updated.”
>>
>> There are steps to the side door of the house made of pavers,
>> professionally done by the PO, but there’s no handrail. Think 180 degree 6”
>> rise steps against the exterior wall, four or five high, I think. Yeah,
>> I’ll give them the roof. “Unable to verify major systems”? They never
>> inspected the house or even asked to. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, all
>> redone.
>>
>> They screwed up and pooched this one, so they’re bailing. It’s that
>> simple. And that’s no doubt why they were so cheap, too. That’s on me, I
>> should have known better.
>>
>> So tomorrow morning I’ll call our Allstate agent in Flagstaff.
>>
>> -D
>>
>> > On May 30, 2022, at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Never heard of insurance canceling because of the age of the roof. I've
>> also had roofs redone a couple of times and never informed the insurance
>> company.
>> >
>> > Who is your insurance with?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 3:28 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> >> The solar co-op in Flagstaff has already contacted me and said my
>> >> property looks like a good candidate. I think not based on my knowledge
>> >> of the trees 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-31 15:19, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

The panels have gotten a LOT cheaper too. About 10 years ago I was
thinking of solar hot water instead of PV, the payoff was a lot
sooner. These days you can overbuild PV and use an electric hot water
heater as a dump load, so when you're making more power than you need
you just dump it into making hot water and get the same payoff as
doing solar hot water.



Looks like 2x1 meter panels are pushing 400W now.
Just a few years ago they were 320-360W.

Here's some US Made, utility quality panels.
A bit over 2 sq meters, but over 400W too.
I wonder what the seller paid when the solar utility went bust.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144553108310

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The panels have gotten a LOT cheaper too. About 10 years ago I was thinking of 
solar hot water instead of PV, the payoff was a lot sooner. These days you can 
overbuild PV and use an electric hot water heater as a dump load, so when 
you're making more power than you need you just dump it into making hot water 
and get the same payoff as doing solar hot water.

-Curt


On Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 12:20:51 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
 wrote: 


The panels keep getting more efficient so the payoff particulars keeps
changing. They supposedly collect power from the scattered light on the
back side of the chips now also, for instance. So I think some shadier
places that would not be suitable are now more suitable. But depends upon
local laws also. They have net zero metering ones that never put power into
the grid beyond what you use, if you live in one of those communist states
that refuses to pay you for power you generate ;-)

Fire is the main reason a lot of policies are getting cancelled in the SW.
We went with stucco and a metal roof but should have boxed in the eaves
also with stucco, as that is where the roofs often catch fire. Plus be sure
your roof vents and hvac air intakes all have 1/8" metal screens, rather
than 1/4", which lets too many embers in. 11 houses burned across the
street in the next block up during the Getty fire.



On Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:00 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Heh. Don’t come to Florida. That’s the first thing they’ll go after. If
> you’ve got a roof that’s more than about 10-12 years old you’ll have a
> tough time getting a policy.
>
> The roof on the Flagstaff house is 20 years old and definitely worn. It’s
> asphalt shingles and a relatively low pitch. They definitely have some wear
> and are getting brittle. We knew this when we bought the place and fully
> expected to have to put a roof on in the next 2-3 years anyway.
>
> This is only one of a number of reasons the insurance company booted us.
> We screwed up and went cheap, through a value-added service our long time
> mortgage broker offered. The policy was with “Hippo”, a totally online home
> insurer. They were easily $600 less than Allstate, our insurer of first
> resort. We’re talking $1800 vs. $1200. I should have known something was
> fishy here.
>
> About 3-4 months ago I got a copy of their underwriter’s report. I read
> through it line by line and realized when I was done that this didn’t even
> sound like our house. It wasn’t minor stuff, it was things like them saying
> it was slab-on-grade when it’s on a foundation with a crawl space. They
> didn’t even list the garage or note that it had living space (casita) in it.
>
> I made a list of discrepancies and called them. Had to leave a message
> with a customer service person, as I wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone in
> underwriting. About two weeks later I get a call from someone in
> Underwriting, and they told me they corrected some of the discrepancies I
> pointed out, but the rest were “minor” issues I “shouldn’t worry about”.
> Yeah, that gave me the warm fuzzies, for sure.
>
> So this morning I get an email from them with a non-renewal notice:
>
> "Stairs, porches or decks without a properly installed railing does not
> meet underwriting eligibility. General condition of roof does not meet
> underwriting eligibility. Unable to verify that the major systems of the
> home have been updated.”
>
> There are steps to the side door of the house made of pavers,
> professionally done by the PO, but there’s no handrail. Think 180 degree 6”
> rise steps against the exterior wall, four or five high, I think. Yeah,
> I’ll give them the roof. “Unable to verify major systems”? They never
> inspected the house or even asked to. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, all
> redone.
>
> They screwed up and pooched this one, so they’re bailing. It’s that
> simple. And that’s no doubt why they were so cheap, too. That’s on me, I
> should have known better.
>
> So tomorrow morning I’ll call our Allstate agent in Flagstaff.
>
> -D
>
> > On May 30, 2022, at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Never heard of insurance canceling because of the age of the roof. I've
> also had roofs redone a couple of times and never informed the insurance
> company.
> >
> > Who is your insurance with?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 3:28 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> >> The solar co-op in Flagstaff has already contacted me and said my
> >> property looks like a good candidate. I think not based on my knowledge
> >> of the trees and where the sun falls throughout the day on the roof of
> >> the house. That said, my (detached) garage has a very clear view of the
> >> sky through most of the day, so that’s always a possibility.
> >>
> >> Looks like a new roof is in my future anyway, as I just got a notice of
> >> cancellation from my homeowner’s insurance company this morning. One of
> >> the reasons they 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

The panels keep getting more efficient so the payoff particulars keeps
changing. They supposedly collect power from the scattered light on the
back side of the chips now also, for instance. So I think some shadier
places that would not be suitable are now more suitable. But depends upon
local laws also. They have net zero metering ones that never put power into
the grid beyond what you use, if you live in one of those communist states
that refuses to pay you for power you generate ;-)

Fire is the main reason a lot of policies are getting cancelled in the SW.
We went with stucco and a metal roof but should have boxed in the eaves
also with stucco, as that is where the roofs often catch fire. Plus be sure
your roof vents and hvac air intakes all have 1/8" metal screens, rather
than 1/4", which lets too many embers in. 11 houses burned across the
street in the next block up during the Getty fire.



On Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:00 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Heh. Don’t come to Florida. That’s the first thing they’ll go after. If
> you’ve got a roof that’s more than about 10-12 years old you’ll have a
> tough time getting a policy.
>
> The roof on the Flagstaff house is 20 years old and definitely worn. It’s
> asphalt shingles and a relatively low pitch. They definitely have some wear
> and are getting brittle. We knew this when we bought the place and fully
> expected to have to put a roof on in the next 2-3 years anyway.
>
> This is only one of a number of reasons the insurance company booted us.
> We screwed up and went cheap, through a value-added service our long time
> mortgage broker offered. The policy was with “Hippo”, a totally online home
> insurer. They were easily $600 less than Allstate, our insurer of first
> resort. We’re talking $1800 vs. $1200. I should have known something was
> fishy here.
>
> About 3-4 months ago I got a copy of their underwriter’s report. I read
> through it line by line and realized when I was done that this didn’t even
> sound like our house. It wasn’t minor stuff, it was things like them saying
> it was slab-on-grade when it’s on a foundation with a crawl space. They
> didn’t even list the garage or note that it had living space (casita) in it.
>
> I made a list of discrepancies and called them. Had to leave a message
> with a customer service person, as I wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone in
> underwriting. About two weeks later I get a call from someone in
> Underwriting, and they told me they corrected some of the discrepancies I
> pointed out, but the rest were “minor” issues I “shouldn’t worry about”.
> Yeah, that gave me the warm fuzzies, for sure.
>
> So this morning I get an email from them with a non-renewal notice:
>
> "Stairs, porches or decks without a properly installed railing does not
> meet underwriting eligibility. General condition of roof does not meet
> underwriting eligibility. Unable to verify that the major systems of the
> home have been updated.”
>
> There are steps to the side door of the house made of pavers,
> professionally done by the PO, but there’s no handrail. Think 180 degree 6”
> rise steps against the exterior wall, four or five high, I think. Yeah,
> I’ll give them the roof. “Unable to verify major systems”? They never
> inspected the house or even asked to. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, all
> redone.
>
> They screwed up and pooched this one, so they’re bailing. It’s that
> simple. And that’s no doubt why they were so cheap, too. That’s on me, I
> should have known better.
>
> So tomorrow morning I’ll call our Allstate agent in Flagstaff.
>
> -D
>
> > On May 30, 2022, at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Never heard of insurance canceling because of the age of the roof. I've
> also had roofs redone a couple of times and never informed the insurance
> company.
> >
> > Who is your insurance with?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 3:28 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> >> The solar co-op in Flagstaff has already contacted me and said my
> >> property looks like a good candidate. I think not based on my knowledge
> >> of the trees and where the sun falls throughout the day on the roof of
> >> the house. That said, my (detached) garage has a very clear view of the
> >> sky through most of the day, so that’s always a possibility.
> >>
> >> Looks like a new roof is in my future anyway, as I just got a notice of
> >> cancellation from my homeowner’s insurance company this morning. One of
> >> the reasons they cited was the age of my roof. What’s funny is that
> >> they were falling all over themselves wanting to insure me when I
> >> bought the house. I saw the underwriting statement and the description
> >> wasn’t anything like my house - they described it as a slab on grade
> >> (foundation with a crawl) the square footage was wrong and it didn’t
> >> even mention my detached garage. I brought this to their attention
> >> about a month ago when I saw the 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[MG via Mercedes]

You just need to be a bit more flexible as to 
having the structure where the panels need to be.


Then again it could be a matter of it being an 
eyesore and spoiling the view. I ended up thinking 
quite a bit before deciding to put mine where it is.


MG

Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
Yeah but not where the panels would need to be. It’s a conundrum 


--FT
Sent from iFōn


On May 30, 2022, at 2:13 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

Don't you need a nice large roofed over area to keep your cars under?

When I did mine the cost of the 24x32 south angled solar support structure was 
included in the gov rebates. Also happens to keep the rain off the cars or any 
projects I am working on.

MG

Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:

I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits or anything 
involving gummint "help."
A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar panels on 
his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class ecologist and ocean 
researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of the schemes.  Whatever.  
I popped by the other day to pick up something and he was lamenting the whole 
thing, the contractor (sourced through the electric company) was completely 
incompetent, etc. so he sent them on their way.  The whole thing is on hold.
Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a Tesla 
battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power outage.  I 
was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the install.
I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some solar but it 
would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing panels on some racks or 
something because of the layout of the estate.  But then I think about a tank of fuel 
with a generator to run things and that seems a better deal.
--FT

On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. That’s 
whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.

-D


On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:

In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
cost per sq. ft of house area.]
3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
$10,000, with cables and racks.
4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should
be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT
Sent from iFōn


On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions

Vehicles".

Mitch.


On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.
So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I went with mortgage company affiliate insurance once. Put the cars on it as 
well for an even better deal. It was cheap, but two months in I could not get 
them to give me insurance cards for the cars or even a clear list of what our 
coverages were. I got fed up and went back to State Farm.


On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 3:59 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> Heh. Don’t come to Florida. That’s the first thing they’ll go after. If 
> you’ve got a roof that’s more than about 10-12 years old you’ll have a 
> tough time getting a policy.
>
> The roof on the Flagstaff house is 20 years old and definitely worn. 
> It’s asphalt shingles and a relatively low pitch. They definitely have 
> some wear and are getting brittle. We knew this when we bought the 
> place and fully expected to have to put a roof on in the next 2-3 years 
> anyway.
>
> This is only one of a number of reasons the insurance company booted 
> us. We screwed up and went cheap, through a value-added service our 
> long time mortgage broker offered. The policy was with “Hippo”, a 
> totally online home insurer. They were easily $600 less than Allstate, 
> our insurer of first resort. We’re talking $1800 vs. $1200. I should 
> have known something was fishy here.
>
> About 3-4 months ago I got a copy of their underwriter’s report. I read 
> through it line by line and realized when I was done that this didn’t 
> even sound like our house. It wasn’t minor stuff, it was things like 
> them saying it was slab-on-grade when it’s on a foundation with a crawl 
> space. They didn’t even list the garage or note that it had living 
> space (casita) in it.
>
> I made a list of discrepancies and called them. Had to leave a message 
> with a customer service person, as I wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone 
> in underwriting. About two weeks later I get a call from someone in 
> Underwriting, and they told me they corrected some of the discrepancies 
> I pointed out, but the rest were “minor” issues I “shouldn’t worry 
> about”. Yeah, that gave me the warm fuzzies, for sure.
>
> So this morning I get an email from them with a non-renewal notice:
>
> "Stairs, porches or decks without a properly installed railing does not 
> meet underwriting eligibility. General condition of roof does not meet 
> underwriting eligibility. Unable to verify that the major systems of 
> the home have been updated.”
>
> There are steps to the side door of the house made of pavers, 
> professionally done by the PO, but there’s no handrail. Think 180 
> degree 6” rise steps against the exterior wall, four or five high, I 
> think. Yeah, I’ll give them the roof. “Unable to verify major systems”? 
> They never inspected the house or even asked to. HVAC, plumbing, 
> electrical, all redone.
>
> They screwed up and pooched this one, so they’re bailing. It’s that 
> simple. And that’s no doubt why they were so cheap, too. That’s on me, 
> I should have known better.
>
> So tomorrow morning I’ll call our Allstate agent in Flagstaff.
>
> -D
>
>> On May 30, 2022, at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Never heard of insurance canceling because of the age of the roof. I've also 
>> had roofs redone a couple of times and never informed the insurance company.
>> 
>> Who is your insurance with?
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 3:28 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>>> The solar co-op in Flagstaff has already contacted me and said my 
>>> property looks like a good candidate. I think not based on my knowledge 
>>> of the trees and where the sun falls throughout the day on the roof of 
>>> the house. That said, my (detached) garage has a very clear view of the 
>>> sky through most of the day, so that’s always a possibility.
>>> 
>>> Looks like a new roof is in my future anyway, as I just got a notice of 
>>> cancellation from my homeowner’s insurance company this morning. One of 
>>> the reasons they cited was the age of my roof. What’s funny is that 
>>> they were falling all over themselves wanting to insure me when I 
>>> bought the house. I saw the underwriting statement and the description 
>>> wasn’t anything like my house - they described it as a slab on grade 
>>> (foundation with a crawl) the square footage was wrong and it didn’t 
>>> even mention my detached garage. I brought this to their attention 
>>> about a month ago when I saw the underwriter’s report. They called me 
>>> up and explained that they would be changing the report to reflect the 
>>> property as it was built.
>>> 
>>> Probably why they booted me. Jerks.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On May 30, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 I have the typical gabled roof, 6/12 pitch except over the front porch, 
 and the peak runs roughly north/south. So half the roof gets sun in the 
 morning, the other half gets sun in the afternoon.
 
 To get sun all day I'd have to put solar panels on a separate support 
 structure in the back yard. No matter where 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Heh. Don’t come to Florida. That’s the first thing they’ll go after. If you’ve 
got a roof that’s more than about 10-12 years old you’ll have a tough time 
getting a policy.

The roof on the Flagstaff house is 20 years old and definitely worn. It’s 
asphalt shingles and a relatively low pitch. They definitely have some wear and 
are getting brittle. We knew this when we bought the place and fully expected 
to have to put a roof on in the next 2-3 years anyway.

This is only one of a number of reasons the insurance company booted us. We 
screwed up and went cheap, through a value-added service our long time mortgage 
broker offered. The policy was with “Hippo”, a totally online home insurer. 
They were easily $600 less than Allstate, our insurer of first resort. We’re 
talking $1800 vs. $1200. I should have known something was fishy here.

About 3-4 months ago I got a copy of their underwriter’s report. I read through 
it line by line and realized when I was done that this didn’t even sound like 
our house. It wasn’t minor stuff, it was things like them saying it was 
slab-on-grade when it’s on a foundation with a crawl space. They didn’t even 
list the garage or note that it had living space (casita) in it.

I made a list of discrepancies and called them. Had to leave a message with a 
customer service person, as I wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone in 
underwriting. About two weeks later I get a call from someone in Underwriting, 
and they told me they corrected some of the discrepancies I pointed out, but 
the rest were “minor” issues I “shouldn’t worry about”. Yeah, that gave me the 
warm fuzzies, for sure.

So this morning I get an email from them with a non-renewal notice:

"Stairs, porches or decks without a properly installed railing does not meet 
underwriting eligibility. General condition of roof does not meet underwriting 
eligibility. Unable to verify that the major systems of the home have been 
updated.”

There are steps to the side door of the house made of pavers, professionally 
done by the PO, but there’s no handrail. Think 180 degree 6” rise steps against 
the exterior wall, four or five high, I think. Yeah, I’ll give them the roof. 
“Unable to verify major systems”? They never inspected the house or even asked 
to. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, all redone.

They screwed up and pooched this one, so they’re bailing. It’s that simple. And 
that’s no doubt why they were so cheap, too. That’s on me, I should have known 
better.

So tomorrow morning I’ll call our Allstate agent in Flagstaff.

-D

> On May 30, 2022, at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Never heard of insurance canceling because of the age of the roof. I've also 
> had roofs redone a couple of times and never informed the insurance company.
> 
> Who is your insurance with?
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 3:28 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> The solar co-op in Flagstaff has already contacted me and said my 
>> property looks like a good candidate. I think not based on my knowledge 
>> of the trees and where the sun falls throughout the day on the roof of 
>> the house. That said, my (detached) garage has a very clear view of the 
>> sky through most of the day, so that’s always a possibility.
>> 
>> Looks like a new roof is in my future anyway, as I just got a notice of 
>> cancellation from my homeowner’s insurance company this morning. One of 
>> the reasons they cited was the age of my roof. What’s funny is that 
>> they were falling all over themselves wanting to insure me when I 
>> bought the house. I saw the underwriting statement and the description 
>> wasn’t anything like my house - they described it as a slab on grade 
>> (foundation with a crawl) the square footage was wrong and it didn’t 
>> even mention my detached garage. I brought this to their attention 
>> about a month ago when I saw the underwriter’s report. They called me 
>> up and explained that they would be changing the report to reflect the 
>> property as it was built.
>> 
>> Probably why they booted me. Jerks.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On May 30, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have the typical gabled roof, 6/12 pitch except over the front porch, and 
>>> the peak runs roughly north/south. So half the roof gets sun in the 
>>> morning, the other half gets sun in the afternoon.
>>> 
>>> To get sun all day I'd have to put solar panels on a separate support 
>>> structure in the back yard. No matter where I put them I'd have to cut down 
>>> trees if I wanted to maximize exposure.
>>> 
>>> I'd much rather just pay the REMC one or two hundred a month or so.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
 Yeah but not where the panels would need to be. It’s a conundrum 
 
 --FT
 Sent from iFōn
 
> On May 30, 2022, at 2:13 PM, MG via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Don't you need a nice large roofed over area to keep your cars under?

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Never heard of insurance canceling because of the age of the roof. I've also 
had roofs redone a couple of times and never informed the insurance company.

Who is your insurance with?


On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 3:28 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> The solar co-op in Flagstaff has already contacted me and said my 
> property looks like a good candidate. I think not based on my knowledge 
> of the trees and where the sun falls throughout the day on the roof of 
> the house. That said, my (detached) garage has a very clear view of the 
> sky through most of the day, so that’s always a possibility.
>
> Looks like a new roof is in my future anyway, as I just got a notice of 
> cancellation from my homeowner’s insurance company this morning. One of 
> the reasons they cited was the age of my roof. What’s funny is that 
> they were falling all over themselves wanting to insure me when I 
> bought the house. I saw the underwriting statement and the description 
> wasn’t anything like my house - they described it as a slab on grade 
> (foundation with a crawl) the square footage was wrong and it didn’t 
> even mention my detached garage. I brought this to their attention 
> about a month ago when I saw the underwriter’s report. They called me 
> up and explained that they would be changing the report to reflect the 
> property as it was built.
>
> Probably why they booted me. Jerks.
>
> -D
>
>> On May 30, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have the typical gabled roof, 6/12 pitch except over the front porch, and 
>> the peak runs roughly north/south. So half the roof gets sun in the morning, 
>> the other half gets sun in the afternoon.
>> 
>> To get sun all day I'd have to put solar panels on a separate support 
>> structure in the back yard. No matter where I put them I'd have to cut down 
>> trees if I wanted to maximize exposure.
>> 
>> I'd much rather just pay the REMC one or two hundred a month or so.
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Yeah but not where the panels would need to be. It’s a conundrum 
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iFōn
>>> 
 On May 30, 2022, at 2:13 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
 
 Don't you need a nice large roofed over area to keep your cars under?
 
 When I did mine the cost of the 24x32 south angled solar support structure 
 was included in the gov rebates. Also happens to keep the rain off the 
 cars or any projects I am working on.
 
 MG
 
 Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
> I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits 
> or anything involving gummint "help."
> A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar 
> panels on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class 
> ecologist and ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of 
> the schemes.  Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up something 
> and he was lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced through the 
> electric company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he sent them on 
> their way.  The whole thing is on hold.
> Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
> Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
> outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
> install.
> I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
> solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing 
> panels on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  
> But then I think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and 
> that seems a better deal.
> --FT
>> On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
>> financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. 
>> That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via 
>>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
>>> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
>>> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and 
>>> install of
>>> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, 
>>> $15,000.
>>> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
>>> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
>>> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 
>>> to
>>> $10,000, with cables and racks.
>>> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and 
>>> inverter
>>> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
>>> Which 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

The solar co-op in Flagstaff has already contacted me and said my property 
looks like a good candidate. I think not based on my knowledge of the trees and 
where the sun falls throughout the day on the roof of the house. That said, my 
(detached) garage has a very clear view of the sky through most of the day, so 
that’s always a possibility.

Looks like a new roof is in my future anyway, as I just got a notice of 
cancellation from my homeowner’s insurance company this morning. One of the 
reasons they cited was the age of my roof. What’s funny is that they were 
falling all over themselves wanting to insure me when I bought the house. I saw 
the underwriting statement and the description wasn’t anything like my house - 
they described it as a slab on grade (foundation with a crawl) the square 
footage was wrong and it didn’t even mention my detached garage. I brought this 
to their attention about a month ago when I saw the underwriter’s report. They 
called me up and explained that they would be changing the report to reflect 
the property as it was built.

Probably why they booted me. Jerks.

-D

> On May 30, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have the typical gabled roof, 6/12 pitch except over the front porch, and 
> the peak runs roughly north/south. So half the roof gets sun in the morning, 
> the other half gets sun in the afternoon.
> 
> To get sun all day I'd have to put solar panels on a separate support 
> structure in the back yard. No matter where I put them I'd have to cut down 
> trees if I wanted to maximize exposure.
> 
> I'd much rather just pay the REMC one or two hundred a month or so.
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
>> Yeah but not where the panels would need to be. It’s a conundrum 
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
>>> On May 30, 2022, at 2:13 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't you need a nice large roofed over area to keep your cars under?
>>> 
>>> When I did mine the cost of the 24x32 south angled solar support structure 
>>> was included in the gov rebates. Also happens to keep the rain off the cars 
>>> or any projects I am working on.
>>> 
>>> MG
>>> 
>>> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
 I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits 
 or anything involving gummint "help."
 A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar 
 panels on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class 
 ecologist and ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of 
 the schemes.  Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up something 
 and he was lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced through the 
 electric company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he sent them on 
 their way.  The whole thing is on hold.
 Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
 Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
 outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
 install.
 I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
 solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing 
 panels on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  
 But then I think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and 
 that seems a better deal.
 --FT
> On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
> financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. 
> That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
>> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
>> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install 
>> of
>> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, 
>> $15,000.
>> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
>> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
>> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
>> $10,000, with cables and racks.
>> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
>> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
>> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
>> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
>> 
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
>>> issues associated with 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I have the typical gabled roof, 6/12 pitch except over the front porch, and the 
peak runs roughly north/south. So half the roof gets sun in the morning, the 
other half gets sun in the afternoon.

To get sun all day I'd have to put solar panels on a separate support structure 
in the back yard. No matter where I put them I'd have to cut down trees if I 
wanted to maximize exposure.

I'd much rather just pay the REMC one or two hundred a month or so.


On Mon, May 30, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> Yeah but not where the panels would need to be. It’s a conundrum 
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
>> On May 30, 2022, at 2:13 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
>> Don't you need a nice large roofed over area to keep your cars under?
>> 
>> When I did mine the cost of the 24x32 south angled solar support structure 
>> was included in the gov rebates. Also happens to keep the rain off the cars 
>> or any projects I am working on.
>> 
>> MG
>> 
>> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
>>> I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits or 
>>> anything involving gummint "help."
>>> A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar panels 
>>> on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class ecologist and 
>>> ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of the schemes.  
>>> Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up something and he was 
>>> lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced through the electric 
>>> company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he sent them on their way.  
>>> The whole thing is on hold.
>>> Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
>>> Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
>>> outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
>>> install.
>>> I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
>>> solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing panels 
>>> on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  But then I 
>>> think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and that seems a 
>>> better deal.
>>> --FT
 On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
 This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
 financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. 
 That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
 
 -D
 
> On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install 
> of
> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, 
> $15,000.
> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
> $10,000, with cables and racks.
> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
> 
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
>> issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea 
>> of
>> a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
>> storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
>> solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process 
>> should
>> be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
>> Vehicles".
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
 On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
 And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
 to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
 generated using fossil fuels at present.
 So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
 not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Yeah but not where the panels would need to be. It’s a conundrum 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On May 30, 2022, at 2:13 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Don't you need a nice large roofed over area to keep your cars under?
> 
> When I did mine the cost of the 24x32 south angled solar support structure 
> was included in the gov rebates. Also happens to keep the rain off the cars 
> or any projects I am working on.
> 
> MG
> 
> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
>> I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits or 
>> anything involving gummint "help."
>> A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar panels 
>> on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class ecologist and 
>> ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of the schemes.  
>> Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up something and he was 
>> lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced through the electric 
>> company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he sent them on their way.  The 
>> whole thing is on hold.
>> Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
>> Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
>> outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
>> install.
>> I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
>> solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing panels 
>> on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  But then I 
>> think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and that seems a 
>> better deal.
>> --FT
>>> On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>>> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
>>> financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. 
>>> That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
 wrote:
 
 In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
 would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
 the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
 cost per sq. ft of house area.]
 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
 $10,000, with cables and racks.
 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
 to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
 Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
 bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
 
 On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
> issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
> a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
> storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
> solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process 
> should
> be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
> 
>> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
> Vehicles".
>> Mitch.
>> 
>>> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>>> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
>>> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
>>> generated using fossil fuels at present.
>>> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
>>> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[MG via Mercedes]

Don't you need a nice large roofed over area to 
keep your cars under?


When I did mine the cost of the 24x32 south angled 
solar support structure was included in the gov 
rebates. Also happens to keep the rain off the 
cars or any projects I am working on.


MG

Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits 
or anything involving gummint "help."


A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar 
panels on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class 
ecologist and ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects 
of the schemes.  Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up 
something and he was lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced 
through the electric company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he 
sent them on their way.  The whole thing is on hold.


Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
install.


I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing 
panels on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  
But then I think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and 
that seems a better deal.


--FT

On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes 
good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it 
doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.


-D

On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via 
Mercedes  wrote:


In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and 
install of
the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, 
$15,000.

2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
cost per sq. ft of house area.]
3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated 
$8 to

$10,000, with cables and racks.
4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and 
inverter

to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel 
sound so

bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the 
idea of

a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons 
from
solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process 
should

be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT
Sent from iFōn


On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions

Vehicles".

Mitch.


On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.
So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, 
just

not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Had our local water board meeting on Thursday. A few months ago I suggested to 
our engineer that we needed to lay in a stock of meters (radio read) and 
controllers and such. So she has been doing that. Bought as many meters as she 
could. They are now NLA, back ordered for months. We have pretty steady demand 
what with new construction. She figures we have enough for a few months then 
she can start cannibalizing disused manual meters from inactive properties. 
That could extend the supply a bit. 

She bought a few controllers too but that could be it for awhile. Big Issue. 
Forget big motors we use for pumping and valve actuation. 

We have standby generators at our tanks to run pumps and valves but apparently 
the power co can’t get transformers so they’re running on inventory too. That 
could be an issue to keep our stuff running if a storm takes out their grid 
feeding our sites. 

Fun times 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On May 28, 2022, at 8:27 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> In an ideal world, we would have many more nuke plants, AND, we would have
> replaced the entire transmission grid, some of which is now over 100 years
> old and very vulnerable. Also, we would have large grid transformers
> in storage, new, and ready for immediate installation, instead of having a
> 2 to 5 year supply chain delay to replace one that's damaged or failed.
> 
> Instead, our leadership finds other things to spend government money on.
> 
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 5:05 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> In an ideal world we would have developed more nuclear power, right AZ bob?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 28, 2022, at 8:28 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The power plant can be wind or solar, in an ideal world.
>>> 
 On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 9:18 AM mitch--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 wrote:
 
 So, instead of making emissions when driven, it makes emissions the
 day/night before it's driven?
 
> On 2022-05-28 08:54, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal
> fired power plant.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel >> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Just for Andrew's enjoyment. Since we live in a perfect world, and
pollution is only caused by evil hydrocarbon emissions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_horse_manure_crisis_of_1894


On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 5:18 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Perhaps you should go back to horse and buggy so you do away with
> emissions.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 28, 2022, at 9:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I prefer a reality of no emissions from all the cars and trucks driving
> all
> > over the place.  We can control the power plant emissions.
> >
> >> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 10:44 AM G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> This one picture, with the technical details in the text, does a pretty
> >> good job of connecting reality to the "zero emissions" of EV autos
> >> argument. Behind the magic of push button living, there is the reality
> of
> >> what it takes to have that luxury delivered.
> >> [image: image.png]
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 5:54 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal
> fired
> >>> power plant.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  >
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  
>  EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
> 
> > On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel
> >>> burned to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery.
> >> Not
> >>> to mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years
> they
> >>> should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
> >>> besides electric battery powered cars.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> EVs are for pussies!
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
> >>> cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> >>> Curt
> >>>
> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important
> thing
> >>> with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to
> >> complete.
> >>> If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't
> >> know
> >>> how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time.
> Kevin
> >>> posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> >>>
> >>> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed
> >>> up. You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to
> drive
> >>> out moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
> >>> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing
> occasional
> >>> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
> >>> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
> >>>
> >>>
> > On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes
> >> wrote:
>  I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep
> >>> up on
>  the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> 
>  If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and
> >>> is
>  pretty reliable which would I look for?
> 
>  I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603
> >> is
>  very good too. (Right?)
> 
>  The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> 
>  Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
> >>> blue
>  tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its
> >>> own
>  issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives
> >>> like a
>  10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to
> >> get
>  everything heated up and working.
> 
>  My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of
> >> that
> >>> is
>  on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short
> >>> trips
>  on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a
> >> weekend
> >>> 600
>  miles or so maybe every few months.
> 
>  So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
> >>> driven
>  30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the
> >>> 602,
>  603, and 606?
> 
>  What was 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[G Mann via Mercedes]

In an ideal world, we would have many more nuke plants, AND, we would have
replaced the entire transmission grid, some of which is now over 100 years
old and very vulnerable. Also, we would have large grid transformers
in storage, new, and ready for immediate installation, instead of having a
2 to 5 year supply chain delay to replace one that's damaged or failed.

Instead, our leadership finds other things to spend government money on.

On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 5:05 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> In an ideal world we would have developed more nuclear power, right AZ bob?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 28, 2022, at 8:28 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > The power plant can be wind or solar, in an ideal world.
> >
> >> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 9:18 AM mitch--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> So, instead of making emissions when driven, it makes emissions the
> >> day/night before it's driven?
> >>
> >>> On 2022-05-28 08:54, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal
> >>> fired power plant.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  >
>  wrote:
> 
>  
>  EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Perhaps you should go back to horse and buggy so you do away with emissions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2022, at 9:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I prefer a reality of no emissions from all the cars and trucks driving all
> over the place.  We can control the power plant emissions.
> 
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 10:44 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> This one picture, with the technical details in the text, does a pretty
>> good job of connecting reality to the "zero emissions" of EV autos
>> argument. Behind the magic of push button living, there is the reality of
>> what it takes to have that luxury delivered.
>> [image: image.png]
>> 
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 5:54 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal fired
>>> power plant.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
>>> wrote:
 
 
 EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
 
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel
>>> burned to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery.
>> Not
>>> to mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
>>> should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
>>> besides electric battery powered cars.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> EVs are for pussies!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
>>> cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
>>> Curt
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important thing
>>> with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to
>> complete.
>>> If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't
>> know
>>> how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin
>>> posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
>>> 
>>> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed
>>> up. You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive
>>> out moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
>>> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional
>>> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
>>> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
>>> 
>>> 
> On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes
>> wrote:
 I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep
>>> up on
 the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
 
 If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and
>>> is
 pretty reliable which would I look for?
 
 I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603
>> is
 very good too. (Right?)
 
 The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
 
 Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
>>> blue
 tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its
>>> own
 issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives
>>> like a
 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to
>> get
 everything heated up and working.
 
 My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of
>> that
>>> is
 on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short
>>> trips
 on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a
>> weekend
>>> 600
 miles or so maybe every few months.
 
 So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
>>> driven
 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the
>>> 602,
 603, and 606?
 
 What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
 remember hearing great things about those.
 
 Donald H. Snook
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

In an ideal world we would have developed more nuclear power, right AZ bob?

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2022, at 8:28 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The power plant can be wind or solar, in an ideal world.
> 
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 9:18 AM mitch--- via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> So, instead of making emissions when driven, it makes emissions the
>> day/night before it's driven?
>> 
>>> On 2022-05-28 08:54, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal
>>> fired power plant.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
 wrote:
 
 
 EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-28 17:02, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:
Lots of early Leafs in warm climates had warranty battery 
replacements.


Does the current generation Leaf include active battery temperature 
management?


Oops, I guess it was early Teslas and all Leafs that lack battery 
refrigeration.

Battery hot, please slow down is not my idea of thermal management

Ah, here we go.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/29/nissans-long-strange-trip-with-leaf-batteries/
It looks like the pre-2014 batteries cooked easily, then they changed 
the battery type to one that handled the heat better but still didn't do 
anything about cooling them. Then they had new problems with the larger 
batteries when those became available.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yes the EV has more emissions to produce but breaks even by about year 5 in
normal use on carbon IIRC.

Thise little Aptera things have solar cells in the roof and are so light
and aerodynamically slippery that you can charge about 40 miles a day on
sunlight only. I may do that eventually but collision with any big SUVs
would not be pretty, even with airbags.

Karl

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel burned
> to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not to
> mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
> should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
> besides electric battery powered cars.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > EVs are for pussies!
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
> cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> >> Curt
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important thing
> with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to complete.
> If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't know
> how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin
> posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> >>
> >> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up.
> You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out
> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional
> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
> >>
> >>
>  On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up
> on
> >>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> >>>
> >>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is
> >>> pretty reliable which would I look for?
> >>>
> >>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is
> >>> very good too. (Right?)
> >>>
> >>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> >>>
> >>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
> blue
> >>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own
> >>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like
> a
> >>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get
> >>> everything heated up and working.
> >>>
> >>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is
> >>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips
> >>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend
> 600
> >>> miles or so maybe every few months.
> >>>
> >>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
> driven
> >>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602,
> >>> 603, and 606?
> >>>
> >>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> >>> remember hearing great things about those.
> >>>
> >>> Donald H. Snook
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

> Lots of early Leafs in warm climates had warranty battery replacements.

Does the current generation Leaf include active battery temperature management?


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-28 15:24, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

I thought it was a pretty well known fact the batteries in these die
after about 5-8 years.


I saw somebody earlier in this thread quote a longer lifespan for NiMH 
Prius batteries.
NiMH doesn't mind being kept at 100% charge for extended periods, nor 
does it mind being discharged below 20%. I suspect it would last a bit 
longer than gently treated LiPo and much longer than abused LiPo.


Still, it's rare to hear about LiPo or Li-Ion batteries in EVs dying 
before 5 years if the car incorporates active battery cooling to keep it 
under 90 degrees. Lots of early Leafs in warm climates had warranty 
battery replacements.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I thought it was a pretty well known fact the batteries in these die after 
about 5-8 years. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am not aware that EV battery packs expire in 5 years.  Can you back up
> that statement?
> 
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:15 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> If you do a hard cost analysis of purchase cost of the EV auto, then add in
>> the hard cost of owning a solar power collection system to feed the EV with
>> energy, then do an actual hard cost per mile used, it raises some real
>> questions about just how economical the EV actually is to own and support,
>> doesn't it?
>> Somewhere along the way, you would need to factor in the expected service
>> life of the EV, the solar system, storage batteries, and other equipment
>> required, like the expected $20,000 + to replace the EV's battery packs in
>> 5 years.
>> 
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 12:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
 This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
 good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
 doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power
>> systems.
>>> 
>>> To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer service.
>>> I'll do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system at
>> my
>>> house) but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.
>>> 
>>> I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even
>> slightly
>>> interested in running my own solar panel rig.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> That’s OK, Jim. There’s nothing in or around Hanford anyway, right?

Just one, IIRC.  WPPSS ('whoops') was cancelled, and the old reactors
have mostly all been retired, or never finished, one by one.

-- Jim


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

That’s OK, Jim. There’s nothing in or around Hanford anyway, right?

-D

> On May 28, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>> The power plant can be wind or solar, in an ideal world.
> 
> Or, in Washington.  One of the few States whose general electric supply
> is NOT fossil fuel.  We have a lot of hydro, and wind.  We used to have
> some significant nuclear, too, but...
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> The power plant can be wind or solar, in an ideal world.

Or, in Washington.  One of the few States whose general electric supply
is NOT fossil fuel.  We have a lot of hydro, and wind.  We used to have
some significant nuclear, too, but...

-- Jim


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> All you have to do is haul a huge load of rocks downhill then unload them to 
> go back up again!  It's a meerkul!!!

And how did those rocks get into the trains?  And sufficiently far away from
the destination end to not clog things up?

Diesel.

-- Jim


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-28 10:34, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

But it’s not really going green is it after the environmental damage
from mining the elements for the batteries and the petroleum used to
produce the batteries, solar panels, and related equipment.


Here's one way of looking at it:

You could do all the above and drive 100,000 miles, and figure a per 
mile environmental impact.
Or you could forget the home solar installation, include 2.5MWh of 
electricity in your total environmental impact, and divide by 100kmi.
Or you could spend $5k bringing a preexisting E320 to mechanical 
perfection, and add 3500-4000 gallons of gas to your environmental 
impact. I have a feeling this one comes out the winner.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I prefer a reality of no emissions from all the cars and trucks driving all
over the place.  We can control the power plant emissions.

On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 10:44 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> This one picture, with the technical details in the text, does a pretty
> good job of connecting reality to the "zero emissions" of EV autos
> argument. Behind the magic of push button living, there is the reality of
> what it takes to have that luxury delivered.
> [image: image.png]
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 5:54 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal fired
> > power plant.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
> > >
> > >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel
> > burned to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery.
> Not
> > to mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
> > should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
> > besides electric battery powered cars.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> > On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > EVs are for pussies!
> > >> >
> > >> > Sent from my iPhone
> > >> >
> > >> >> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
> > cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> > >> >> Curt
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important thing
> > with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to
> complete.
> > If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't
> know
> > how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin
> > posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed
> > up. You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive
> > out moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
> > especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional
> > longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
> > forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>  On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes
> wrote:
> > >> >>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep
> > up on
> > >> >>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and
> > is
> > >> >>> pretty reliable which would I look for?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603
> is
> > >> >>> very good too. (Right?)
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
> > blue
> > >> >>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its
> > own
> > >> >>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives
> > like a
> > >> >>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to
> get
> > >> >>> everything heated up and working.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of
> that
> > is
> > >> >>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short
> > trips
> > >> >>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a
> weekend
> > 600
> > >> >>> miles or so maybe every few months.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
> > driven
> > >> >>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the
> > 602,
> > >> >>> 603, and 606?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> > >> >>> remember hearing great things about those.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Donald H. Snook
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> ___
> > >> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ___
> > >> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >> >>
> > >> >> To Unsubscribe or 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

But it’s not really going green is it after the environmental damage from 
mining the elements for the batteries and the petroleum used to produce the 
batteries, solar panels, and related equipment. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2022, at 11:56 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
> financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. 
> That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
>> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
>> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
>> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
>> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
>> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
>> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
>> $10,000, with cables and racks.
>> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
>> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
>> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
>> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
>> 
>>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
>>> issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
>>> a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
>>> storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
>>> solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should
>>> be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iFōn
>>> 
 On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
>>> Vehicles".
 Mitch.
 
> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
> generated using fossil fuels at present.
> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
 
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Pre-emissions?

-D

> On May 28, 2022, at 9:17 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So, instead of making emissions when driven, it makes emissions the day/night 
> before it's driven?
> 
> On 2022-05-28 08:54, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal
>> fired power plant.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Perpetual free electric vehicle!

https://jalopnik.com/these-electric-trains-never-need-recharging-thanks-to-r-1848975204

All you have to do is haul a huge load of rocks downhill then unload 
them to go back up again!  It's a meerkul!!!


--R

On 5/28/22 9:49 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:

yes & 60 8% of electricity is generated from fossil fuels.


--
--FT
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

yes & 60 8% of electricity is generated from fossil fuels.

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 8:54 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal fired
> power plant.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
> >
> >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel
> burned to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not
> to mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
> should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
> besides electric battery powered cars.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > EVs are for pussies!
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> >
> >> >> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
> cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> >> >> Curt
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important thing
> with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to complete.
> If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't know
> how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin
> posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed
> up. You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive
> out moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional
> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>  On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> >> >>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep
> up on
> >> >>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and
> is
> >> >>> pretty reliable which would I look for?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is
> >> >>> very good too. (Right?)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
> blue
> >> >>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its
> own
> >> >>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives
> like a
> >> >>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get
> >> >>> everything heated up and working.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that
> is
> >> >>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short
> trips
> >> >>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend
> 600
> >> >>> miles or so maybe every few months.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
> driven
> >> >>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the
> 602,
> >> >>> 603, and 606?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> >> >>> remember hearing great things about those.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Donald H. Snook
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ___
> >> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> >>>
> >> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
> >> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >>
> >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> >>
> >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
> >> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >>
> >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> >>
> >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >
> >> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> >
> >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> > 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The power plant can be wind or solar, in an ideal world.

On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 9:18 AM mitch--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> So, instead of making emissions when driven, it makes emissions the
> day/night before it's driven?
>
> On 2022-05-28 08:54, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal
> > fired power plant.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

So, instead of making emissions when driven, it makes emissions the 
day/night before it's driven?


On 2022-05-28 08:54, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal
fired power plant.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  
wrote:



EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Uh no, you are moving the emissions from your tail pipe to the coal fired power 
plant. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> 
> EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
> 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel burned to 
>> run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not to mention 
>> the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they should have 
>> developed more nuclear power and figured out something else besides electric 
>> battery powered cars. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > EVs are for pussies!
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> >> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin 
>> >> is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
>> >> Curt
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> >> 
>> >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
>> >> Mercedes wrote:   As I understand it, the 
>> >> important thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs 
>> >> time to complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have 
>> >> problems. I don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving 
>> >> is enough time. Kevin posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes 
>> >> with Bluetec.
>> >> 
>> >> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. 
>> >> You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out 
>> >> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK 
>> >> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional 
>> >> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven 
>> >> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>>  On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
>> >>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
>> >>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>> >>> 
>> >>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
>> >>> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
>> >>> 
>> >>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
>> >>> very good too. (Right?) 
>> >>> 
>> >>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>> >>> 
>> >>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
>> >>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
>> >>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
>> >>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
>> >>> everything heated up and working.  
>> >>> 
>> >>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
>> >>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
>> >>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
>> >>> miles or so maybe every few months.  
>> >>> 
>> >>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
>> >>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
>> >>> 603, and 606? 
>> >>> 
>> >>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
>> >>> remember hearing great things about those. 
>> >>> 
>> >>> Donald H. Snook
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>> ___
>> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >>> 
>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>> 
>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >> 
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >> 
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I just saw this regarding the life of the battery in a Prius:

"According to Wrightgrid
, you can
expect your Toyota Prius battery to last between 10 and 15 years,
especially if you take good care of it. However, there are a handful of
factors that go into what makes a "healthy" battery. Wrightgrid noted that
you can determine how quickly your Prius' battery is deteriorating by the
frequency of voltage spikes, but you should get about 150,000 miles at the
bare minimum before seeing any sort of problems in your car's handling.
You can keep your battery charged by driving your vehicle regularly, and by
keeping is gassed up so that you aren't relying so heavily on your hybrid
EV system. It's not unlike charging a very large phone; the healthiest
charge level is somewhere between 30-80% at all times. You may also want to
limit the number of "short" trips, or tours through populated urban spaces
with many stop lights -- or spaces with heavy traffic. Trips like these can
put stress on your car's battery that lowers its lifespan. You may as well
balance these trips out with a few longer trips to lower-density spaces
such as freeways and rural roads, where you can give both your gas engine
and electric motor some regular exercise."

Note that it dispels the myth that they are great for short trips in town
---

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 4:23 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The run flat problem is a lead acid battery problem, not a lithium battery
> issue. The BMS is supposed to prevent the battery getting discharged to
> damaging levels.
> For off grid solar lithium is a game changer, they're physically smaller,
> don't off gas, and can be deep discharged without damage. For me the issue
> is that they won't charge well when cold so I'd need to find a place for
> them inside the heated envelope of the camp. I think I've got it figured
> out and our next batteries will probably be lithium.
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   What are they warrantied for?
>
> As I understand it, they don't "expire" they start losing capacity (which
> reduces range) and eventually they will no longer provide a useful range to
> the owner of the vehicle.
>
> It also depends how they are used. If they are run to near-flat and then
> fully recharged, that's harder on the battery life than running them down
> to say 40% and charging back up to say 80% charge (assuming that meets your
> range requirements).
>
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 2:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > I am not aware that EV battery packs expire in 5 years.  Can you back up
> > that statement?
> >
> > On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:15 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> If you do a hard cost analysis of purchase cost of the EV auto, then
> add in
> >> the hard cost of owning a solar power collection system to feed the EV
> with
> >> energy, then do an actual hard cost per mile used, it raises some real
> >> questions about just how economical the EV actually is to own and
> support,
> >> doesn't it?
> >> Somewhere along the way, you would need to factor in the expected
> service
> >> life of the EV, the solar system, storage batteries, and other equipment
> >> required, like the expected $20,000 + to replace the EV's battery packs
> in
> >> 5 years.
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 12:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> >> > > This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
> >> > > good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
> >> > > doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power
> >> systems.
> >> >
> >> > To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer
> service.
> >> > I'll do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system
> at
> >> my
> >> > house) but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.
> >> >
> >> > I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even
> >> slightly
> >> > interested in running my own solar panel rig.
> >> >
> >> > Allan
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >
> >> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> >
> >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The run flat problem is a lead acid battery problem, not a lithium battery 
issue. The BMS is supposed to prevent the battery getting discharged to 
damaging levels.
For off grid solar lithium is a game changer, they're physically smaller, don't 
off gas, and can be deep discharged without damage. For me the issue is that 
they won't charge well when cold so I'd need to find a place for them inside 
the heated envelope of the camp. I think I've got it figured out and our next 
batteries will probably be lithium.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via 
Mercedes wrote:   What are they warrantied for?

As I understand it, they don't "expire" they start losing capacity (which 
reduces range) and eventually they will no longer provide a useful range to the 
owner of the vehicle.

It also depends how they are used. If they are run to near-flat and then fully 
recharged, that's harder on the battery life than running them down to say 40% 
and charging back up to say 80% charge (assuming that meets your range 
requirements).


On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 2:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> I am not aware that EV battery packs expire in 5 years.  Can you back up
> that statement?
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:15 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>
>> If you do a hard cost analysis of purchase cost of the EV auto, then add in
>> the hard cost of owning a solar power collection system to feed the EV with
>> energy, then do an actual hard cost per mile used, it raises some real
>> questions about just how economical the EV actually is to own and support,
>> doesn't it?
>> Somewhere along the way, you would need to factor in the expected service
>> life of the EV, the solar system, storage batteries, and other equipment
>> required, like the expected $20,000 + to replace the EV's battery packs in
>> 5 years.
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 12:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> > > This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
>> > > good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
>> > > doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power
>> systems.
>> >
>> > To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer service.
>> > I'll do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system at
>> my
>> > house) but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.
>> >
>> > I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even
>> slightly
>> > interested in running my own solar panel rig.
>> >
>> > Allan
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> >
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

5 years? These are lithium batteries, service life should be 8 at least, more 
with a little care.
Cost per mile on EVs is very competitive with gas cars on fuel alone. Some 
months ago I did the math and a Tesla was something like half my diesel Jetta 
and that was me using pretty pessimistic numbers for the Tesla. Once you add in 
the lack of maintenance on an EV it looks better still. I haven't worked it far 
enough to see if it'll cover battery replacement though.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:15 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:   If you do a hard cost analysis of purchase cost of the EV auto, then 
add in
the hard cost of owning a solar power collection system to feed the EV with
energy, then do an actual hard cost per mile used, it raises some real
questions about just how economical the EV actually is to own and support,
doesn't it?
Somewhere along the way, you would need to factor in the expected service
life of the EV, the solar system, storage batteries, and other equipment
required, like the expected $20,000 + to replace the EV's battery packs in
5 years.

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 12:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> > This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
> > good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
> > doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
>
> To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer service.
> I'll do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system at my
> house) but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.
>
> I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even slightly
> interested in running my own solar panel rig.
>
> Allan
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

New England is serviced by only one natural gas pipeline. Our energy prices can 
skyrocket during high demand due to limited supply.
My opinion is that electricity prices aren't going down and anywhere that net 
metering is allowed it makes sense to get solar.
Panel prices continue to fall, 5 years ago when we first put panels on the camp 
I was happy with 100w panels for $100. Now I can get open box 260w for $160. 
I'm debating switching us to 24v and getting 3x 260w panels which will more 
than triple our generating capacity.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM, dan penoff.com via 
Mercedes wrote:   It is, sadly. And MA is one of the 
most progressive. Go figure.

-D

On May 27, 2022, at 1:21 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

Florida is, after all, the most anti-solar state. Foolishness...


Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on 
Android

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:04 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes
 wrote:
In theory an excellent idea, but in practice it can be dodgy. I say that 
because our legislature in Florida was able to get a bill passed that phased 
out net metering for consumers, meaning that if you just sunk $20k-$30k into a 
solar system that in 2-3 years you weren’t going to get paid for the power you 
generate, or if you did, it would be a much lower rate that currently required 
by law.

That payback curve was going to get very, very flat.

Despite the sway that utilities hold over our legislators, our somewhat psycho 
governor saw the light and vetoed the bill. Had he not I think things might 
have gotten quite ugly.

-D

On May 27, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>>
 wrote:

What you do is run your solar into the grid running your electric meter 
backwards during the day. This let's you essentially use the grid as a big 
battery.
With the right payment structure you can get paid daytime surge rates and only 
pay out night time rates to charge your car.
Long term plans for the northern estate include 3000w of solar.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>>
 wrote:  Putting aside the environmental and international economic and 
security issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the 
idea of a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need 
storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from solar 
photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should be on the 
order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT
Sent from iFōn

On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>>
 wrote:

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions Vehicles".
Mitch.

On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.
So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The trend is to share the space.
"Jack’s Solar Garden is the largest commercially active agrivoltaics system
researching crop and vegetation growth under photovoltaic solar panels in
the United States. The garden generates enough power for more than 300
homes from 3,276 solar panels (6 ft and 8 ft) that create a 1.2-MW
community solar garden. Audubon Rockies , a
regional office of the bird protection society, established their largest
Habitat Hero pollinator habitat in Colorado around the solar array, while a
local nonprofit farming organization, Sprout City Farms
, trains young farmers to cultivate crops
under the solar panels"

https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/future-of-agriculture-combined-with-renewable-energy-finds-success-at-jacks-solar-garden.html

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 4:04 PM mitch--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On 2022-05-27 13:57, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> > I understand that many European cities are now leasing roof space on
> > commercial buildings [which is otherwise unexploited real estate and
> > installing solar farms in that space, which is, in most cases, tall
> > enough
> > to be above trees and obstructions for a clear solar exposure.]
>
> That beats buying up productive farmland and planting PV panels. My area
> has seen a bit of that in recent years. It's funny to watch the
> complaining from the NIMBY types. Would you rather have them sell the
> farm to developers so you'd have to share the road with 100 new
> neighbors?
>
> To my way of thinking, a PV farm would be the ideal neighbor. They're
> quiet, their methhead offspring don't ransack your garden shed, and they
> don't clog up the local roads.
>
> I think I'll do some aerial videography of Eaton County's PV farms and
> other counties' turbine farms.
> Just have to remember not to fly where the turbine blades sweep.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-27 13:57, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

I understand that many European cities are now leasing roof space on
commercial buildings [which is otherwise unexploited real estate and
installing solar farms in that space, which is, in most cases, tall 
enough

to be above trees and obstructions for a clear solar exposure.]


That beats buying up productive farmland and planting PV panels. My area 
has seen a bit of that in recent years. It's funny to watch the 
complaining from the NIMBY types. Would you rather have them sell the 
farm to developers so you'd have to share the road with 100 new 
neighbors?


To my way of thinking, a PV farm would be the ideal neighbor. They're 
quiet, their methhead offspring don't ransack your garden shed, and they 
don't clog up the local roads.


I think I'll do some aerial videography of Eaton County's PV farms and 
other counties' turbine farms.

Just have to remember not to fly where the turbine blades sweep.

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Somewhere, I saw information suggesting that the battery pack on a Kia 
is warranted for 10 years.
However, I wonder about the details of that warranty and as you have 
pointed out, what the decline is before it is considered replaceable 
under warranty.


Randy

On 27/05/2022 2:33 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:

What are they warrantied for?

As I understand it, they don't "expire" they start losing capacity (which 
reduces range) and eventually they will no longer provide a useful range to the owner of 
the vehicle.

It also depends how they are used. If they are run to near-flat and then fully 
recharged, that's harder on the battery life than running them down to say 40% 
and charging back up to say 80% charge (assuming that meets your range 
requirements).


On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 2:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I am not aware that EV battery packs expire in 5 years.  Can you back up
that statement?




___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-27 15:33, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:

What are they warrantied for?


IIRC, GM warrants them to 65% of advertised capacity. I think this is 
pretty much an industry standard.
How would you like to treat it lovingly for 60 months, have it test out 
at 67%, and end up wishing you'd drove it like you stole it and gotten a 
free battery?


Range is less of a big deal than it was 5-10 years ago, but you 
definitely don't want your daily drive to use more than 50% of capacity, 
or you'll have little or no reserve left when the battery nears the end 
of its service life.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

What are they warrantied for?

As I understand it, they don't "expire" they start losing capacity (which 
reduces range) and eventually they will no longer provide a useful range to the 
owner of the vehicle.

It also depends how they are used. If they are run to near-flat and then fully 
recharged, that's harder on the battery life than running them down to say 40% 
and charging back up to say 80% charge (assuming that meets your range 
requirements).


On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 2:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> I am not aware that EV battery packs expire in 5 years.  Can you back up
> that statement?
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:15 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>
>> If you do a hard cost analysis of purchase cost of the EV auto, then add in
>> the hard cost of owning a solar power collection system to feed the EV with
>> energy, then do an actual hard cost per mile used, it raises some real
>> questions about just how economical the EV actually is to own and support,
>> doesn't it?
>> Somewhere along the way, you would need to factor in the expected service
>> life of the EV, the solar system, storage batteries, and other equipment
>> required, like the expected $20,000 + to replace the EV's battery packs in
>> 5 years.
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 12:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> > > This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
>> > > good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
>> > > doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power
>> systems.
>> >
>> > To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer service.
>> > I'll do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system at
>> my
>> > house) but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.
>> >
>> > I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even
>> slightly
>> > interested in running my own solar panel rig.
>> >
>> > Allan
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> >
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I am not aware that EV battery packs expire in 5 years.  Can you back up
that statement?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 3:15 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> If you do a hard cost analysis of purchase cost of the EV auto, then add in
> the hard cost of owning a solar power collection system to feed the EV with
> energy, then do an actual hard cost per mile used, it raises some real
> questions about just how economical the EV actually is to own and support,
> doesn't it?
> Somewhere along the way, you would need to factor in the expected service
> life of the EV, the solar system, storage batteries, and other equipment
> required, like the expected $20,000 + to replace the EV's battery packs in
> 5 years.
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 12:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> > > This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
> > > good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
> > > doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power
> systems.
> >
> > To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer service.
> > I'll do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system at
> my
> > house) but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.
> >
> > I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even
> slightly
> > interested in running my own solar panel rig.
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[G Mann via Mercedes]

If you do a hard cost analysis of purchase cost of the EV auto, then add in
the hard cost of owning a solar power collection system to feed the EV with
energy, then do an actual hard cost per mile used, it raises some real
questions about just how economical the EV actually is to own and support,
doesn't it?
Somewhere along the way, you would need to factor in the expected service
life of the EV, the solar system, storage batteries, and other equipment
required, like the expected $20,000 + to replace the EV's battery packs in
5 years.

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 12:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> > This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
> > good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
> > doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
>
> To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer service.
> I'll do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system at my
> house) but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.
>
> I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even slightly
> interested in running my own solar panel rig.
>
> Allan
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Lots of charlatans in the solar biz. You need to check out contractors 
carefully.


On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
> I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits 
> or anything involving gummint "help."
>
> A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar 
> panels on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class 
> ecologist and ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects 
> of the schemes.  Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up 
> something and he was lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced 
> through the electric company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he 
> sent them on their way.  The whole thing is on hold.
>
> Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
> Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
> outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
> install.
>
> I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
> solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing 
> panels on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  
> But then I think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and 
> that seems a better deal.
>
> --FT
>
> On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
>> financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. 
>> That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
>>
>> -D
>>
>>> On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
>>> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
>>> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
>>> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
>>> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
>>> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
>>> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
>>> $10,000, with cables and racks.
>>> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
>>> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
>>> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
>>> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
 issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
 a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
 storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
 solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should
 be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.

 --FT
 Sent from iFōn

> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
 Vehicles".
> Mitch.
>
>> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
>> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
>> generated using fossil fuels at present.
>> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
>> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com

 To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
> -- 
> --FT
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:55 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes 
> good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it 
> doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.

To me it's like having a septic system instead of utility sewer service. I'll 
do it if there's no better option (and I do have a septic system at my house) 
but I'd much rather pay a utility to handle it.

I'd have to see a much-better-than-break-even proposal to be even slightly 
interested in running my own solar panel rig.

Allan

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I understand that many European cities are now leasing roof space on
commercial buildings [which is otherwise unexploited real estate and
installing solar farms in that space, which is, in most cases, tall enough
to be above trees and obstructions for a clear solar exposure.]
There may be some tax relief or rebate to the building owners, in such a
scheme. I am not privy to the exact details, only that it is being done
with significant success in reduction of power plant load.


On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:48 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That always intrigued me.  I have enough sun to support dozens of panels
> but if not, community would be the way to go.
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 1:46 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I just joined a solar co-op in Flagstaff that is starting up. I don’t
> > expect to follow through with a system, as the volume of 80’-100’
> Ponderosa
> > pines on our lot limit the amount of sunlight we would get throughout the
> > day.
> >
> > That being said, I at least want to get an idea if it’s remotely viable.
> > AZ is very solar friendly, so it might be that it could make sense there
> as
> > compared to FL.
> >
> > The co-op approach gets a a bunch of potential users together who obtain
> > quotes from and get qualified suppliers and contractors who will do the
> > work for a negotiated price. It works well in eliminating the
> difficulties
> > of finding a contractor and vetting them as well as helping to establish
> a
> > competitive cost for materials and labor.
> >
> > -D
> >
> > > On May 27, 2022, at 1:10 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax
> > credits or anything involving gummint "help."
> > >
> > > A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar
> > panels on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class
> ecologist
> > and ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of the
> > schemes.  Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up something and
> he
> > was lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced through the
> electric
> > company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he sent them on their way.
> > The whole thing is on hold.
> > >
> > > Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for
> a
> > Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power
> > outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the
> > install.
> > >
> > > I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do
> some
> > solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing
> panels
> > on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  But
> then I
> > think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and that seems
> a
> > better deal.
> > >
> > > --FT
> > >
> > >> On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> > >> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
> > good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
> > doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
> > >>
> > >> -D
> > >>
> >  On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes<
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
> > >>> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels,
> > you
> > >>> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and
> > install of
> > >>> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx,
> > $15,000.
> > >>> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank
> > [insert
> > >>> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
> > >>> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated
> $8
> > to
> > >>> $10,000, with cables and racks.
> > >>> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and
> > inverter
> > >>> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
> > >>> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel
> sound
> > so
> > >>> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an
> EV"?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> > >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Putting aside the environmental and international economic and
> > security
> >  issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the
> > idea of
> >  a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
> >  storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons
> > from
> >  solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process
> > should
> >  be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
> > 
> >  --FT
> >  Sent from iFōn
> > 
> > > On May 27, 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That always intrigued me.  I have enough sun to support dozens of panels
but if not, community would be the way to go.

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 1:46 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I just joined a solar co-op in Flagstaff that is starting up. I don’t
> expect to follow through with a system, as the volume of 80’-100’ Ponderosa
> pines on our lot limit the amount of sunlight we would get throughout the
> day.
>
> That being said, I at least want to get an idea if it’s remotely viable.
> AZ is very solar friendly, so it might be that it could make sense there as
> compared to FL.
>
> The co-op approach gets a a bunch of potential users together who obtain
> quotes from and get qualified suppliers and contractors who will do the
> work for a negotiated price. It works well in eliminating the difficulties
> of finding a contractor and vetting them as well as helping to establish a
> competitive cost for materials and labor.
>
> -D
>
> > On May 27, 2022, at 1:10 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax
> credits or anything involving gummint "help."
> >
> > A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar
> panels on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class ecologist
> and ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of the
> schemes.  Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up something and he
> was lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced through the electric
> company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he sent them on their way.
> The whole thing is on hold.
> >
> > Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a
> Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power
> outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the
> install.
> >
> > I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some
> solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing panels
> on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  But then I
> think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and that seems a
> better deal.
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >> On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> >> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes
> good financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it
> doesn’t. That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
>  On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
> >>> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels,
> you
> >>> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and
> install of
> >>> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx,
> $15,000.
> >>> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank
> [insert
> >>> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
> >>> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8
> to
> >>> $10,000, with cables and racks.
> >>> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and
> inverter
> >>> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
> >>> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound
> so
> >>> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  Putting aside the environmental and international economic and
> security
>  issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the
> idea of
>  a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
>  storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons
> from
>  solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process
> should
>  be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
> 
>  --FT
>  Sent from iFōn
> 
> > On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
>  Vehicles".
> > Mitch.
> >
> >> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
> >> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s
> likely
> >> generated using fossil fuels at present.
> >> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process,
> just
> >> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

It is, sadly. And MA is one of the most progressive. Go figure.

-D

On May 27, 2022, at 1:21 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

Florida is, after all, the most anti-solar state. Foolishness...


Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on 
Android

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:04 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes
 wrote:
In theory an excellent idea, but in practice it can be dodgy. I say that 
because our legislature in Florida was able to get a bill passed that phased 
out net metering for consumers, meaning that if you just sunk $20k-$30k into a 
solar system that in 2-3 years you weren’t going to get paid for the power you 
generate, or if you did, it would be a much lower rate that currently required 
by law.

That payback curve was going to get very, very flat.

Despite the sway that utilities hold over our legislators, our somewhat psycho 
governor saw the light and vetoed the bill. Had he not I think things might 
have gotten quite ugly.

-D

On May 27, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>>
 wrote:

What you do is run your solar into the grid running your electric meter 
backwards during the day. This let's you essentially use the grid as a big 
battery.
With the right payment structure you can get paid daytime surge rates and only 
pay out night time rates to charge your car.
Long term plans for the northern estate include 3000w of solar.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>>
 wrote:  Putting aside the environmental and international economic and 
security issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the 
idea of a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need 
storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from solar 
photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should be on the 
order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT
Sent from iFōn

On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>>
 wrote:

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions Vehicles".
Mitch.

On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.
So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I just joined a solar co-op in Flagstaff that is starting up. I don’t expect to 
follow through with a system, as the volume of 80’-100’ Ponderosa pines on our 
lot limit the amount of sunlight we would get throughout the day.

That being said, I at least want to get an idea if it’s remotely viable. AZ is 
very solar friendly, so it might be that it could make sense there as compared 
to FL.

The co-op approach gets a a bunch of potential users together who obtain quotes 
from and get qualified suppliers and contractors who will do the work for a 
negotiated price. It works well in eliminating the difficulties of finding a 
contractor and vetting them as well as helping to establish a competitive cost 
for materials and labor.

-D

> On May 27, 2022, at 1:10 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits or 
> anything involving gummint "help."
> 
> A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar panels 
> on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class ecologist and 
> ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects of the schemes.  
> Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up something and he was 
> lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced through the electric 
> company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he sent them on their way.  The 
> whole thing is on hold.
> 
> Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
> Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
> outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
> install.
> 
> I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
> solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing panels 
> on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  But then I 
> think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and that seems a 
> better deal.
> 
> --FT
> 
>> On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
>> financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. 
>> That’s whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
 On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
>>> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
>>> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
>>> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
>>> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
>>> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
>>> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
>>> $10,000, with cables and racks.
>>> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
>>> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
>>> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
>>> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
>>> 
>>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
 issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
 a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
 storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
 solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should
 be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
 
 --FT
 Sent from iFōn
 
> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
 Vehicles".
> Mitch.
> 
>> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
>> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
>> generated using fossil fuels at present.
>> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
>> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Florida is, after all, the most anti-solar state. Foolishness...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:04 AM, dan penoff.com via 
Mercedes wrote:   In theory an excellent idea, but in 
practice it can be dodgy. I say that because our legislature in Florida was 
able to get a bill passed that phased out net metering for consumers, meaning 
that if you just sunk $20k-$30k into a solar system that in 2-3 years you 
weren’t going to get paid for the power you generate, or if you did, it would 
be a much lower rate that currently required by law.

That payback curve was going to get very, very flat.

Despite the sway that utilities hold over our legislators, our somewhat psycho 
governor saw the light and vetoed the bill. Had he not I think things might 
have gotten quite ugly.

-D

On May 27, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

What you do is run your solar into the grid running your electric meter 
backwards during the day. This let's you essentially use the grid as a big 
battery.
With the right payment structure you can get paid daytime surge rates and only 
pay out night time rates to charge your car.
Long term plans for the northern estate include 3000w of solar.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:  Putting 
aside the environmental and international economic and security issues 
associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of a garage 
with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need storage batteries 
in your garage to collect and store the electrons from solar photons so you can 
charge your car at night. The whole process should be on the order of maybe 8% 
efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT
Sent from iFōn

On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions Vehicles".
Mitch.

On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.
So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-27 13:09, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:


Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for
a Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of
power outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't
see the install.


I did some research and managed to come up with an IRS opinion letter 
which stated that the battery was part of the total solar install and 
could be included in the cost for the federal energy credit. A client 
paid over $40k for a total bells and whistles system last year. He's 
retired and won't be paying federal income tax for a few years.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I have a philosophical aversion to making decisions based on tax credits 
or anything involving gummint "help."


A friend of mine was all excited a few weeks ago about getting solar 
panels on his roof, tax credits and all that. He is a world-class 
ecologist and ocean researcher so he is into the environmental aspects 
of the schemes.  Whatever.  I popped by the other day to pick up 
something and he was lamenting the whole thing, the contractor (sourced 
through the electric company) was completely incompetent, etc. so he 
sent them on their way.  The whole thing is on hold.


Another buddy apparently has a system installed now and is waiting for a 
Tesla battery to provide some stand-alone capacity in the event of power 
outage.  I was over there recently but it was dark and I didn't see the 
install.


I have been thinking once I move to my more rural estate I might do some 
solar but it would likely require a solar "farm" i.e., free-standing 
panels on some racks or something because of the layout of the estate.  
But then I think about a tank of fuel with a generator to run things and 
that seems a better deal.


--FT

On 5/27/22 12:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. That’s 
whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.

-D


On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:

In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
cost per sq. ft of house area.]
3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
$10,000, with cables and racks.
4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should
be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT
Sent from iFōn


On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions

Vehicles".

Mitch.


On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.
So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


--
--FT
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-27 12:51, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, 
you
would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and 
install of
the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, 
$15,000.
2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank 
[insert

cost per sq. ft of house area.]
3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 
to

$10,000, with cables and racks.
4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and 
inverter

to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound 
so

bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?


I remember, maybe 15-20 years ago, an article in HomePower magazine 
attempting to financially justify $5-10/kW solar. In essence, it said 
that as an alternative to buying a $40k SUV you didn't need and 
polluting the planet, you could buy a $40k solar system you didn't need 
and avoid pollution. Not buying the SUV or the solar system was not 
presented as a competing scenario.


About 6 years ago I saw some open box 330W Trina panels for something 
like $125ea, about 100 miles away in Indiana. And it was a minimum of 6 
months between then and the earliest that Consumers Power could hope to 
get net metering out of their state approved fee structure. I thought 
about it, I really did. Could have combined the solar installation with 
a roof replacement. But, the neighboring property has some big trees to 
the east of me that kill my morning sun, including a huge white pine 
that touches my garage roof. Unless I want to play the 'gee, looks like 
your trees are dying, how did that happen? game, I'd lose at least a 
third of my potential output.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

This is my position. I’m more than wiling to “go green” if it makes good 
financial sense. At present and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t. That’s 
whether it pertains to cars or stationary power systems.

-D

> On May 27, 2022, at 12:51 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
> 1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
> would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
> the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
> 2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
> cost per sq. ft of house area.]
> 3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
> $10,000, with cables and racks.
> 4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
> to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
> Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
> bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?
> 
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
>> issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
>> a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
>> storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
>> solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should
>> be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
>> Vehicles".
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
 On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
 And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
 to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
 generated using fossil fuels at present.
 So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
 not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[G Mann via Mercedes]

In the interest of a reality check on that thought, consider this.
1. Since you would not be able to do a grid tie to the solar panels, you
would not receive any government matching funds for purchase and install of
the solar rack. Your cost for a 10KW solar array would be, approx, $15,000.
2. You then need an enclosed and vented space for a battery bank [insert
cost per sq. ft of house area.]
3. You then need to purchase and maintain a battery bank. Estimated $8 to
$10,000, with cables and racks.
4. Now, a solar controller, to control battery bank charging and inverter
to control car charging. Estimate, $8 to $10,000 for that equipment.
Which gives rise to the question: "Does $8 per gallon for diesel sound so
bad in comparison, or are you truly committed to "Go Green via an EV"?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security
> issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of
> a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need
> storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons from
> solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole process should
> be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
> > On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
> Vehicles".
> > Mitch.
> >
> >> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
> >> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
> >> generated using fossil fuels at present.
> >> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
> >> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 27/05/2022 9:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:

Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security issues 
associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of a garage 
with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need storage batteries 
in your garage to collect and store the electrons from solar photons so you can 
charge your car at night. The whole process should be on the order of maybe 8% 
efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT


Given the cost of solar panels, controllers and storage batteries etc., 
plus the electric car, it is likely less expensive to continue the 
purchase of gasoline or diesel for the foreseeable future.


I wonder, if you install the solar system, suggested above, if it would 
enhance the value of your property to the point where you would profit 
rather than lose money if you sold the home?


I have to admit that I would like to experiment a bit with solar but I 
don't really need it and I am not certain what I would use it for or 
what I would gain it I did. Unlike Curt, we have electric power at the 
cottage and although it tends to be a bit expensive, it would take an 
expensive system to replace it.


I guess I could use it to feed outdoor lighting in the yard but LED 
lights don't use a lot of power so it would likely take a long while to 
break even.


Randy


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-05-27 11:44, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:

Always a worry if you're depending on credits, tax rebates, etc. to
make a long-term financial justification for something. Those can
disappear at the whims of the legislature.


When Michigan repealed the net metering law 3-4 years ago, the utilities 
were doing ten year contracts, so you just had to get your contract 
signed before the new rate policies were approved (a long regulatory 
process) and you'd get ten years of net metering. Then you just had to 
make sure your payback was under ten years.


Looks like we might end up needing all the locally produced afternoon 
kWs we can get this summer.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

The credits and tax rebates are provided up front, so if they’re present when 
you do the work, you’re good. It’s the ongoing stuff like net metering that you 
could lose out on, and in the case of solar, this is the primary benefit that 
provides a reasonable payback.

Here’s one close to home:

Indiana offers a property tax credit for homeowners who install geothermal 
heating systems. I don’t recall what it was, but it was a decent chunk of 
money. When we lived there in 2008-10 we seriously considered a geothermal 
system for the house, and that was one of the perks. Total cost was around 
$18k, and I think between state and Federal credits and rebates our out of 
pocket would have been around $11k. And those were all things that were 
provided up front at the time of installation.

-D

> On May 27, 2022, at 11:44 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Always a worry if you're depending on credits, tax rebates, etc. to make a 
> long-term financial justification for something. Those can disappear at the 
> whims of the legislature.
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:04 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> In theory an excellent idea, but in practice it can be dodgy. I say 
>> that because our legislature in Florida was able to get a bill passed 
>> that phased out net metering for consumers, meaning that if you just 
>> sunk $20k-$30k into a solar system that in 2-3 years you weren’t going 
>> to get paid for the power you generate, or if you did, it would be a 
>> much lower rate that currently required by law.
>> 
>> That payback curve was going to get very, very flat.
>> 
>> Despite the sway that utilities hold over our legislators, our somewhat 
>> psycho governor saw the light and vetoed the bill. Had he not I think 
>> things might have gotten quite ugly.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> On May 27, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> What you do is run your solar into the grid running your electric meter 
>> backwards during the day. This let's you essentially use the grid as a 
>> big battery.
>> With the right payment structure you can get paid daytime surge rates 
>> and only pay out night time rates to charge your car.
>> Long term plans for the northern estate include 3000w of solar.
>> Curt
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> 
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
>> Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:   
>> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security 
>> issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea 
>> of a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need 
>> storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons 
>> from solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole 
>> process should be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
>> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes 
>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions 
>> Vehicles".
>> Mitch.
>> 
>> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
>> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
>> generated using fossil fuels at present.
>> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
>> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Always a worry if you're depending on credits, tax rebates, etc. to make a 
long-term financial justification for something. Those can disappear at the 
whims of the legislature.


On Fri, May 27, 2022, at 11:04 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> In theory an excellent idea, but in practice it can be dodgy. I say 
> that because our legislature in Florida was able to get a bill passed 
> that phased out net metering for consumers, meaning that if you just 
> sunk $20k-$30k into a solar system that in 2-3 years you weren’t going 
> to get paid for the power you generate, or if you did, it would be a 
> much lower rate that currently required by law.
>
> That payback curve was going to get very, very flat.
>
> Despite the sway that utilities hold over our legislators, our somewhat 
> psycho governor saw the light and vetoed the bill. Had he not I think 
> things might have gotten quite ugly.
>
> -D
>
> On May 27, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>
> What you do is run your solar into the grid running your electric meter 
> backwards during the day. This let's you essentially use the grid as a 
> big battery.
> With the right payment structure you can get paid daytime surge rates 
> and only pay out night time rates to charge your car.
> Long term plans for the northern estate include 3000w of solar.
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>  On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
> Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:   
> Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security 
> issues associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea 
> of a garage with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need 
> storage batteries in your garage to collect and store the electrons 
> from solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole 
> process should be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>
> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions 
> Vehicles".
> Mitch.
>
> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
> generated using fossil fuels at present.
> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

In theory an excellent idea, but in practice it can be dodgy. I say that 
because our legislature in Florida was able to get a bill passed that phased 
out net metering for consumers, meaning that if you just sunk $20k-$30k into a 
solar system that in 2-3 years you weren’t going to get paid for the power you 
generate, or if you did, it would be a much lower rate that currently required 
by law.

That payback curve was going to get very, very flat.

Despite the sway that utilities hold over our legislators, our somewhat psycho 
governor saw the light and vetoed the bill. Had he not I think things might 
have gotten quite ugly.

-D

On May 27, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

What you do is run your solar into the grid running your electric meter 
backwards during the day. This let's you essentially use the grid as a big 
battery.
With the right payment structure you can get paid daytime surge rates and only 
pay out night time rates to charge your car.
Long term plans for the northern estate include 3000w of solar.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:   Putting 
aside the environmental and international economic and security issues 
associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of a garage 
with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need storage batteries 
in your garage to collect and store the electrons from solar photons so you can 
charge your car at night. The whole process should be on the order of maybe 8% 
efficient if you’re lucky.

--FT
Sent from iFōn

On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions Vehicles".
Mitch.

On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.
So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

What you do is run your solar into the grid running your electric meter 
backwards during the day. This let's you essentially use the grid as a big 
battery.
With the right payment structure you can get paid daytime surge rates and only 
pay out night time rates to charge your car.
Long term plans for the northern estate include 3000w of solar.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:20 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
Mercedes wrote:   Putting aside the environmental and 
international economic and security issues associated with lithium batteries 
and PV panels, I like the idea of a garage with PV panels to charge your car. 
Of course you would need storage batteries in your garage to collect and store 
the electrons from solar photons so you can charge your car at night. The whole 
process should be on the order of maybe 8% efficient if you’re lucky.  

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions 
> Vehicles".
> Mitch.
> 
>> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
>> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
>> generated using fossil fuels at present.
>> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
>> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Putting aside the environmental and international economic and security issues 
associated with lithium batteries and PV panels, I like the idea of a garage 
with PV panels to charge your car. Of course you would need storage batteries 
in your garage to collect and store the electrons from solar photons so you can 
charge your car at night. The whole process should be on the order of maybe 8% 
efficient if you’re lucky.  

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On May 27, 2022, at 4:31 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions 
> Vehicles".
> Mitch.
> 
>> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
>> to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
>> generated using fossil fuels at present.
>> So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
>> not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

As they say, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

On Fri, May 27, 2022, 4:31 AM mitch--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions
> Vehicles".
> Mitch.
>
> On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> > And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
> > to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
> > generated using fossil fuels at present.
> >
> > So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
> > not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

When I first heard of ZEVs, I thought "Oh, you mean Remote Emissions 
Vehicles".

Mitch.

On 2022-05-26 17:24, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity
to charge those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely
generated using fossil fuels at present.

So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just
not from a tailpipe on the car in this case.




___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[OK Don via Mercedes]

No LOCAL emissions - their total emissions from harvesting the raw
materials to generating the electricity to charge them is higher than a
Mercedes Diesel.

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:36 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel burned
> > to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not to
> > mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
> > should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
> > besides electric battery powered cars.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > EVs are for pussies!
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
> > cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> > >> Curt
> > >>
> > >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important thing
> > with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to
> complete.
> > If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't
> know
> > how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin
> > posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> > >>
> > >> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up.
> > You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out
> > moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
> > especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional
> > longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
> > forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
> > >>
> > >>
> >  On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> > >>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up
> > on
> > >>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> > >>>
> > >>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is
> > >>> pretty reliable which would I look for?
> > >>>
> > >>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is
> > >>> very good too. (Right?)
> > >>>
> > >>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> > >>>
> > >>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
> > blue
> > >>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its
> own
> > >>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like
> > a
> > >>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get
> > >>> everything heated up and working.
> > >>>
> > >>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that
> is
> > >>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips
> > >>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend
> > 600
> > >>> miles or so maybe every few months.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
> > driven
> > >>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the
> 602,
> > >>> 603, and 606?
> > >>>
> > >>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> > >>> remember hearing great things about those.
> > >>>
> > >>> Donald H. Snook
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ___
> > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>>
> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>>
> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Of course, so does a bicycle for those distances!

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:39 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is
> warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> Curt
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[OK Don via Mercedes]

It doesn't matter which fuel an engine burns, if you don't get it up to
temp, you deposit water and combustion byproducts in the oil, which starts
to eat the insides of the engine. I use this stuff because we drive maybe
once every other week:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/camguard.php?clickkey=4333

However, if Snook is still trading cars every six months, it's a non-issue
for him. We intend to keep these cars for another ten years, if not till we
die, so I try to take care of them.

I'd go the extra mile looking for a turbo 606 - it's really hard to go back
to an NA Diesel after driving a turbo Diesel for a while.

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:31 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It sounds like you'd be better served with a gas car. With the cost of
> diesel recently and the fact that you're going to short drive it you'll
> carbon up a 60x engine. Get a V8 and enjoy it.
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   I have been out of the MB diesel game for
> too long and can’t keep up on the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
>
> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is
> pretty reliable which would I look for?
>
> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very
> good too. (Right?)
>
> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
>
> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue
> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own
> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10
> minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything
> heated up and working.
>
> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on
> the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the
> weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or
> so maybe every few months.
>
> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30
> minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603,
> and 606?
>
> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> remember hearing great things about those.
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

True. We’re all pussies.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 3:32 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> A real man would walk. Uphill both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> EVs are for pussies!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is 
>>> warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
>>> Curt
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
>>> Mercedes wrote:   As I understand it, the important 
>>> thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to 
>>> complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I 
>>> don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough 
>>> time. Kevin posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
>>> 
>>> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
>>> really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out 
>>> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK 
>>> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional 
>>> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven 
>>> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
 I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
 the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
 
 If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
 pretty reliable which would I look for? 
 
 I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
 very good too. (Right?) 
 
 The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
 
 Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
 tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
 issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
 everything heated up and working.  
 
 My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
 on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
 on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
 miles or so maybe every few months.  
 
 So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
 603, and 606? 
 
 What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
 remember hearing great things about those. 
 
 Donald H. Snook
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

One way of thinking about it!

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> You're thinking backwards, the more people driving EVs means more petroleum 
> for us...
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 3:30 PM, Dimitri Seretakis
>  wrote:
> EVs are for pussies!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is 
> > warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> > Curt
> > 
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> > 
> >  On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
> > Mercedes wrote:  As I understand it, the important 
> > thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to 
> > complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I 
> > don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough 
> > time. Kevin posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> > 
> > It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
> > really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out 
> > moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK 
> > especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional 
> > longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven 
> > forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
> > 
> > 
> >> On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> >> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
> >> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
> >> 
> >> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
> >> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
> >> 
> >> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
> >> very good too. (Right?) 
> >> 
> >> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
> >> 
> >> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
> >> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
> >> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
> >> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
> >> everything heated up and working.  
> >> 
> >> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
> >> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
> >> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
> >> miles or so maybe every few months.  
> >> 
> >> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
> >> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
> >> 603, and 606? 
> >> 
> >> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
> >> remember hearing great things about those. 
> >> 
> >> Donald H. Snook
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> 
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> 
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Only if they are charged from a no-emissions power source.


On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel burned
>> to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not to
>> mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
>> should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
>> besides electric battery powered cars.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
[...]

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

And I don’t want to start the back and forth up, but the electricity to charge 
those batteries has to come from somewhere, and it’s likely generated using 
fossil fuels at present.

So the emissions are going to come from somewhere in the process, just not from 
a tailpipe on the car in this case.

-D

> On May 26, 2022, at 5:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.
> 
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel burned
>> to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not to
>> mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
>> should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
>> besides electric battery powered cars.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> EVs are for pussies!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
>> cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
 Curt
 
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
 
 On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important thing
>> with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to complete.
>> If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't know
>> how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin
>> posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
 
 It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up.
>> You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out
>> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
>> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional
>> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
>> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
 
 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up
>> on
> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> 
> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is
> pretty reliable which would I look for?
> 
> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is
> very good too. (Right?)
> 
> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> 
> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
>> blue
> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own
> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like
>> a
> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get
> everything heated up and working.
> 
> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is
> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips
> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend
>> 600
> miles or so maybe every few months.
> 
> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
>> driven
> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602,
> 603, and 606?
> 
> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> remember hearing great things about those.
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

EV have no emissions when driven so that's the benefit.

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:03 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel burned
> to run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not to
> mention the soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they
> should have developed more nuclear power and figured out something else
> besides electric battery powered cars.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > EVs are for pussies!
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the
> cabin is warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> >> Curt
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   As I understand it, the important thing
> with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to complete.
> If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't know
> how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin
> posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> >>
> >> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up.
> You really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out
> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK
> especially if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional
> longer drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven
> forbid) even an EV for a commute that short.
> >>
> >>
>  On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up
> on
> >>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> >>>
> >>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is
> >>> pretty reliable which would I look for?
> >>>
> >>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is
> >>> very good too. (Right?)
> >>>
> >>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> >>>
> >>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the
> blue
> >>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own
> >>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like
> a
> >>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get
> >>> everything heated up and working.
> >>>
> >>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is
> >>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips
> >>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend
> 600
> >>> miles or so maybe every few months.
> >>>
> >>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be
> driven
> >>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602,
> >>> 603, and 606?
> >>>
> >>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> >>> remember hearing great things about those.
> >>>
> >>> Donald H. Snook
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

You're thinking backwards, the more people driving EVs means more petroleum for 
us...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 3:30 PM, Dimitri Seretakis 
wrote:   EVs are for pussies!

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is 
> warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
>Mercedes wrote:  As I understand it, the important 
>thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to 
>complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I 
>don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. 
>Kevin posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> 
> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
> really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out 
> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK especially 
> if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional longer drives. 
> You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV 
> for a commute that short.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>> 
>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
>> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
>> 
>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
>> very good too. (Right?) 
>> 
>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>> 
>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
>> everything heated up and working.  
>> 
>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
>> miles or so maybe every few months.  
>> 
>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
>> 603, and 606? 
>> 
>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
>> remember hearing great things about those. 
>> 
>> Donald H. Snook
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

It sounds like you'd be better served with a gas car. With the cost of diesel 
recently and the fact that you're going to short drive it you'll carbon up a 
60x engine. Get a V8 and enjoy it.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:00 AM, Donald Snook via 
Mercedes wrote:   I have been out of the MB diesel game 
for too long and can’t keep up on the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 

If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is pretty 
reliable which would I look for? 

I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very good 
too. (Right?) 

The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 

Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue tec is 
next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own issues — most 
notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10 minute commute.  
It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything heated up and 
working.  

My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on the 
highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the weekend. 
occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or so maybe every 
few months.  

So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30 
minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603, and 
606? 

What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I remember 
hearing great things about those. 

Donald H. Snook


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

What is appalling is the number of people (and I use the term loosely)
who think that batteries and hydrogen are energy _sources_!

Leaving out cosmological-scale quibbling, there are only
three primary energy sources:

Solar (PV/heating, wind, hydroelectric, biomass, fossil fuel, OTEC)
Kinetic (tidal, geothermal?)
Nuclear (fission, fusion, geothermal?)

Everything else is just a derivative of one of these, on varying time scales.
Even nuclear you can argue is just some _other_ sun, or micro-sun, at work,
at some point in time!

-- Jim


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I read an article recently about the massive amount of diesel fuel burned to 
run the equipment to mine the minerals to make 1 EV battery. Not to mention the 
soil that must be moved. For the last 30 or 40 years they should have developed 
more nuclear power and figured out something else besides electric battery 
powered cars. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> EVs are for pussies!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is 
>> warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
>> Curt
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
>> Mercedes wrote:   As I understand it, the important 
>> thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to 
>> complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I 
>> don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough 
>> time. Kevin posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
>> 
>> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
>> really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out 
>> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK especially 
>> if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional longer 
>> drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) 
>> even an EV for a commute that short.
>> 
>> 
 On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
>>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
>>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>>> 
>>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
>>> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
>>> 
>>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
>>> very good too. (Right?) 
>>> 
>>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>>> 
>>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
>>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
>>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
>>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
>>> everything heated up and working.  
>>> 
>>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
>>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
>>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
>>> miles or so maybe every few months.  
>>> 
>>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
>>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
>>> 603, and 606? 
>>> 
>>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
>>> remember hearing great things about those. 
>>> 
>>> Donald H. Snook
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

A real man would walk. Uphill both ways.



-D

> On May 26, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> EVs are for pussies!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is 
>> warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
>> Curt
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
>> Mercedes wrote:   As I understand it, the important 
>> thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to 
>> complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I 
>> don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough 
>> time. Kevin posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
>> 
>> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
>> really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out 
>> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK especially 
>> if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional longer 
>> drives. You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) 
>> even an EV for a commute that short.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
>>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
>>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>>> 
>>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
>>> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
>>> 
>>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
>>> very good too. (Right?) 
>>> 
>>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>>> 
>>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
>>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
>>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
>>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
>>> everything heated up and working.  
>>> 
>>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
>>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
>>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
>>> miles or so maybe every few months.  
>>> 
>>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
>>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
>>> 603, and 606? 
>>> 
>>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
>>> remember hearing great things about those. 
>>> 
>>> Donald H. Snook
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

It really is an impressive engine. Efficient, powerful, durable.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 1:56 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> OM  602 is great. Dimitri now has my old w124. over 300k miles on orig.
> 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, 12:30 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 606, they are great
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 26, 2022, at 10:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on
>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
>>> 
>>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is
>> pretty reliable which would I look for?
>>> 
>>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very
>> good too. (Right?)
>>> 
>>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
>>> 
>>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue
>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own
>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10
>> minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything
>> heated up and working.
>>> 
>>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is
>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on
>> the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles
>> or so maybe every few months.
>>> 
>>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven
>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603,
>> and 606?
>>> 
>>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
>> remember hearing great things about those.
>>> 
>>> Donald H. Snook
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

EVs are for pussies!

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is 
> warm quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
> Mercedes wrote:   As I understand it, the important 
> thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to 
> complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I 
> don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. 
> Kevin posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.
> 
> It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
> really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out 
> moisture. That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK especially 
> if some of it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional longer drives. 
> You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV 
> for a commute that short.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>> 
>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
>> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
>> 
>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
>> very good too. (Right?) 
>> 
>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>> 
>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
>> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
>> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
>> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
>> everything heated up and working.  
>> 
>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
>> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
>> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
>> miles or so maybe every few months.  
>> 
>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
>> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
>> 603, and 606? 
>> 
>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
>> remember hearing great things about those. 
>> 
>> Donald H. Snook
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Worse than rising gas prices is rising heating oil prices. I’m going to have 
real issues next winter at this rate.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 12:19 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV 
>> for a commute that short.
> 
> A hybrid would be ideal. Lexus makes a hybrid as does Toyota (Prius). 
> Mercedes has had hybrids for several years also. Perhaps Jaime would know the 
> details of them. Of course the time to prepare for rising fuel prices is 
> BEFORE they go up. I won't discuss the impetus for the rising prices, that's 
> for another list. Rest assured they will continue to rise.
> 
> I suspect most people are not prepared for what's coming.
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

6-8 mile commutes are where an EV excels. Electric heat means the cabin is warm 
quickly and you don't need to worry about range.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM, Allan Streib via 
Mercedes wrote:   As I understand it, the important 
thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF "regeneration" cycle needs time to 
complete. If it's frequently interrupted, you eventually have problems. I don't 
know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 miles of driving is enough time. Kevin 
posted a writeup a while back on someone's woes with Bluetec.

It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out moisture. 
That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK especially if some of 
it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional longer drives. You might be 
better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV for a commute 
that short.


On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>
> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
>
> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
> very good too. (Right?) 
>
> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>
> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
> everything heated up and working.  
>
> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
> miles or so maybe every few months.  
>
> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
> 603, and 606? 
>
> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
> remember hearing great things about those. 
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Yes rust 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 12:55 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The Turbo is harder to find. Kaleb says Turbo is even better.  
> 
> Are you say, Dan, NA is the way to go?  
> 
> So, if I find a 606, most of them are going to be in a 210.  The thing to 
> watch out for them is rust, right? 
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> 
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 10:27 AM, dan penoff.com  wrote:
>> 
>> If the 606 is the non-turbo, agreed.
>> 
>> As long as you’re not looking for performance, it will be the most efficient 
>> engine in the W124 diesels.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
 On May 26, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 606, they are great 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On May 26, 2022, at 10:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
 the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
 
 If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
 pretty reliable which would I look for? 
 
 I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very 
 good too. (Right?) 
 
 The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
 
 Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
 tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
 issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10 
 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
 everything heated up and working.  
 
 My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on 
 the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the 
 weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or 
 so maybe every few months.  
 
 So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30 
 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603, 
 and 606? 
 
 What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
 remember hearing great things about those. 
 
 Donald H. Snook
 
 
 ___
 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dbbq8zMR$
  
 
 To search list archives 
 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dSTZtAD3$
  
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dZphsUPc$
  
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dbbq8zMR$
>>>  
>>> 
>>> To search list archives 
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dSTZtAD3$
>>>  
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dZphsUPc$
>>>  
>>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

It’s amazing how all this happens. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV 
>> for a commute that short.
> 
> A hybrid would be ideal. Lexus makes a hybrid as does Toyota (Prius). 
> Mercedes has had hybrids for several years also. Perhaps Jaime would know the 
> details of them. Of course the time to prepare for rising fuel prices is 
> BEFORE they go up. I won't discuss the impetus for the rising prices, that's 
> for another list. Rest assured they will continue to rise.
> 
> I suspect most people are not prepared for what's coming.
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

I agree a Hybrid would potentially be a great solution. And I already started 
looking for a Lexus ES Hybrid.  I found one 2-3 months ago that I should have 
bought.  Now, the newer ones are priced as much as they were new. All hybrids 
are probably going to skyrocket. 

Donald H. Snook


> On May 26, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV 
>> for a commute that short.
> 
> A hybrid would be ideal. Lexus makes a hybrid as does Toyota (Prius). 
> Mercedes has had hybrids for several years also. Perhaps Jaime would know the 
> details of them. Of course the time to prepare for rising fuel prices is 
> BEFORE they go up. I won't discuss the impetus for the rising prices, that's 
> for another list. Rest assured they will continue to rise.
> 
> I suspect most people are not prepared for what's coming.
> 
> 
> Rick

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

OM  602 is great. Dimitri now has my old w124. over 300k miles on orig.

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 12:30 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> 606, they are great
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 26, 2022, at 10:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on
> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid.
> >
> > If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is
> pretty reliable which would I look for?
> >
> > I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very
> good too. (Right?)
> >
> > The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good?
> >
> > Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue
> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own
> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10
> minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything
> heated up and working.
> >
> > My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is
> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on
> the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles
> or so maybe every few months.
> >
> > So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven
> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603,
> and 606?
> >
> > What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I
> remember hearing great things about those.
> >
> > Donald H. Snook
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

The Turbo is harder to find. Kaleb says Turbo is even better.  

Are you say, Dan, NA is the way to go?  

So, if I find a 606, most of them are going to be in a 210.  The thing to watch 
out for them is rust, right? 

Donald H. Snook


> On May 26, 2022, at 10:27 AM, dan penoff.com  wrote:
> 
> If the 606 is the non-turbo, agreed.
> 
> As long as you’re not looking for performance, it will be the most efficient 
> engine in the W124 diesels.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 606, they are great 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On May 26, 2022, at 10:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
>>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>>> 
>>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is pretty 
>>> reliable which would I look for? 
>>> 
>>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very 
>>> good too. (Right?) 
>>> 
>>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>>> 
>>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue tec 
>>> is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own issues — 
>>> most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10 minute 
>>> commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything heated 
>>> up and working.  
>>> 
>>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on 
>>> the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the 
>>> weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or 
>>> so maybe every few months.  
>>> 
>>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30 
>>> minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603, 
>>> and 606? 
>>> 
>>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I remember 
>>> hearing great things about those. 
>>> 
>>> Donald H. Snook
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dbbq8zMR$
>>>  
>>> 
>>> To search list archives 
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dSTZtAD3$
>>>  
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dZphsUPc$
>>>  
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dbbq8zMR$
>>  
>> 
>> To search list archives 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dSTZtAD3$
>>  
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com__;!!BL9GA0TyTA!ZcgjZp7vrk7cGXu0m4ycQ5Vuk8SXQQKPMC8IJtCe_Ff1EnXxcFpvTfdUg_QG8XVrUxh4pivHrqei3A3nm_WbgoH_dZphsUPc$
>>  
>> 
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

> You might be better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV 
> for a commute that short.

A hybrid would be ideal. Lexus makes a hybrid as does Toyota (Prius). Mercedes 
has had hybrids for several years also. Perhaps Jaime would know the details of 
them. Of course the time to prepare for rising fuel prices is BEFORE they go 
up. I won't discuss the impetus for the rising prices, that's for another list. 
Rest assured they will continue to rise.

I suspect most people are not prepared for what's coming.


Rick
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

The turbo 606 is even better 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 10:28 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If the 606 is the non-turbo, agreed.
> 
> As long as you’re not looking for performance, it will be the most efficient 
> engine in the W124 diesels.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 606, they are great 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On May 26, 2022, at 10:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
>>> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>>> 
>>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is pretty 
>>> reliable which would I look for? 
>>> 
>>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very 
>>> good too. (Right?) 
>>> 
>>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>>> 
>>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue tec 
>>> is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own issues — 
>>> most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10 minute 
>>> commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything heated 
>>> up and working.  
>>> 
>>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on 
>>> the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the 
>>> weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or 
>>> so maybe every few months.  
>>> 
>>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30 
>>> minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603, 
>>> and 606? 
>>> 
>>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I remember 
>>> hearing great things about those. 
>>> 
>>> Donald H. Snook
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

As I understand it, the important thing with Blue Tec is that the DPF 
"regeneration" cycle needs time to complete. If it's frequently interrupted, 
you eventually have problems. I don't know how long a cycle takes, or if 6-8 
miles of driving is enough time. Kevin posted a writeup a while back on 
someone's woes with Bluetec.

It's not great for any car, gas or diesel, to not get fully warmed up. You 
really want to get the engine oil and exhaust fully warm to drive out moisture. 
That said, a 6-8 miles drive twice daily is probably OK especially if some of 
it is at highway speeds and you're doing occasional longer drives. You might be 
better off with a gasser though, or (heaven forbid) even an EV for a commute 
that short.


On Thu, May 26, 2022, at 10:59 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on 
> the nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>
> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is 
> pretty reliable which would I look for? 
>
> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is 
> very good too. (Right?) 
>
> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>
> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue 
> tec is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own 
> issues — most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 
> 10 minute commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get 
> everything heated up and working.  
>
> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is 
> on the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips 
> on the weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 
> miles or so maybe every few months.  
>
> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 
> 30 minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 
> 603, and 606? 
>
> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I 
> remember hearing great things about those. 
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

If the 606 is the non-turbo, agreed.

As long as you’re not looking for performance, it will be the most efficient 
engine in the W124 diesels.

-D

> On May 26, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 606, they are great 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 10:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on the 
>> nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
>> 
>> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is pretty 
>> reliable which would I look for? 
>> 
>> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very 
>> good too. (Right?) 
>> 
>> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
>> 
>> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue tec 
>> is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own issues — 
>> most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10 minute 
>> commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything heated 
>> up and working.  
>> 
>> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on 
>> the highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the 
>> weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or so 
>> maybe every few months.  
>> 
>> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30 
>> minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603, and 
>> 606? 
>> 
>> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I remember 
>> hearing great things about those. 
>> 
>> Donald H. Snook
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

606, they are great 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2022, at 10:00 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on the 
> nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 
> 
> If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is pretty 
> reliable which would I look for? 
> 
> I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very good 
> too. (Right?) 
> 
> The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 
> 
> Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue tec 
> is next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own issues — 
> most notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10 minute 
> commute.  It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything heated 
> up and working.  
> 
> My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on the 
> highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the 
> weekend. occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or so 
> maybe every few months.  
> 
> So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30 
> minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603, and 
> 606? 
> 
> What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I remember 
> hearing great things about those. 
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

[MBZ] MB diesel education and advice

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

I have been out of the MB diesel game for too long and can’t keep up on the 
nomenclature and which ones to avoid. 

If I was looking for a Mercedes diesel that would get 30+ mpg and is pretty 
reliable which would I look for? 

I know the 124 diesel with the 2.5 (602?) is great.  And the 603 is very good 
too. (Right?) 

The 606 in the 124 and 210 is also good? 

Then, the CDI started and the Black Death is a big concern and the blue tec is 
next.  Someone mentioned the other day that bluetec has its own issues — most 
notably it is not good for relatively short drives like a 10 minute commute.  
It really needs to be driven for a while to get everything heated up and 
working.  

My cars now get driven to work only 6-8 miles one way. Half of that is on the 
highway - obviously not for long.  Then relatively short trips on the weekend. 
occasionally we drive long distances over a weekend 600 miles or so maybe every 
few months.  

So, if I want a fuel efficient MB diesel that doesn’t have to be driven 30 
minutes at a time, should I be focused on 124 and 210 with the 602, 603, and 
606? 

What was the six cylinder non-turbo that was in the 124 and 210? I remember 
hearing great things about those. 

Donald H. Snook


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com