RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-19 Thread David Miller
DAVEH wrote: > H..IF that (understanding) is correct, then I > would say there are more than a few TTers who are > squirming on their seats right now Probably so... :-) DaveH wrote: > I feel that if I were to claim I don't sin, > it would be hypocritical. I agree. I'm not

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-19 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  So Kevin..Do you commit sins??? Kevin Deegan wrote: Guilty conscience?Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-18 Thread Kevin Deegan
Guilty conscience? Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.   Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-18 Thread Dave
David Miller wrote: > DAVEH wrote: > > I confess to still sinning, which may seem contradictory > > to you in light of my above answer. > > Ah, yes, it does seem contradictory. Maybe I can help you believe in > Jesus for deliverance from your sins. To do that, you must relinquish > faith in an

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-13 Thread David Miller
DAVEH wrote: > I confess to still sinning, which may seem contradictory > to you in light of my above answer. Ah, yes, it does seem contradictory. Maybe I can help you believe in Jesus for deliverance from your sins. To do that, you must relinquish faith in any religious systems on earth. You

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-13 Thread Kevin Deegan
DAVEH: I confess to still sinning, which may seem contradictory to you in light of my above answer. Like I have previously said.I'm not perfect. (Nor am I a Mormon poster child.)   So how are you going to progress, become perfect? Going to happen on the other side? Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-13 Thread Dave
David Miller wrote: > David Miller wrote: > >> Do you think that you and Kimball are in agreement > >> on God's desire for us to live without sin, now in > >> this life? > > DAVEH: > > Yes. > > Interesting. Why have I never heard you share similar words on > TruthTalk? DAVEH: I don't recall b

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-13 Thread Dave
David Miller wrote: > David Miller wrote: > >> Do you think that you and Kimball are in agreement > >> on God's desire for us to live without sin, now in > >> this life? > > DAVEH: > > Yes. > > Interesting. Why have I never heard you share similar words on > TruthTalk? DAVEH: I don't recall b

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-12 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote: >> Do you think that you and Kimball are in agreement >> on God's desire for us to live without sin, now in >> this life? DAVEH: > Yes. Interesting. Why have I never heard you share similar words on TruthTalk? I have always understood from the way you have responded that

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-08 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in BLUE... Kevin Deegan wrote:  Let me just say that my above explanation is only half the Garden of Eden story.  I merely explained as much as I did to answer your above request to elaborate. Why do I always get the feeling you are purposefully leaving out the

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-08 Thread Kevin Deegan
 Let me just say that my above explanation is only half the Garden of Eden story.  I merely explained as much as I did to answer your above request to elaborate.   Why do I always get the feeling you are purposefully leaving out the ugly parts. Like Blaines elipses convieniently replacing "born at

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-08 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in GREEN. Kevin Deegan wrote:  Without the 'fall', there could be no 'salvation'Can you elaborate? DAVEH:  Sure Kevin.  I'll try to explain my thinking, but forgive me if I make some assumptions about how I perceive the nature of salvation as I think you (and Pr

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-08 Thread Kevin Deegan
Read the NEXT verse![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy: What scripture Kevin?  I see nothing at all about tongues in 1 Cor 14:38 - why do you mention it?   [EMAIL PROTECTED]> This scripture you quote has to do with Tongues[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Without the 'fa

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-08 Thread Kevin Deegan
This scripture you quote has to do with Tongues[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Without the 'fall', there could be no 'salvation' Can you elaborate?Judy:I'm assuming this question is directed at DaveH but why question himso intently about his Mormon beliefs until TT be

Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-07 Thread jandgtaylor1
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Without the 'fall', there could be no 'salvation' Can you elaborate? Judy: I'm assuming this question is directed at DaveH but why question him so intently about his Mormon beliefs until TT becomes a platform for them lifting up a false Christ? Did Paul wri

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-07 Thread Kevin Deegan
 Without the 'fall', there could be no 'salvation' Can you elaborate?Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   michael douglas wrote: jt: I understand what you are saying but not the point of all of it.  Why accuse God? This is just the way it is and if there is more to it that we should know he will

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-07 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My most recent comments are in PINK.. Kevin Deegan wrote:  FYI the 'Primitive Christians'  he is referring to were PAGANS DAVEH:  ???  Why would pagans practice a Christian ordinance?  That doesn't make sense to me, Kevin. How do you define 'PAGANS'?    Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-07 Thread Dave
  michael douglas wrote: jt: I understand what you are saying but not the point of all of it.  Why accuse God? This is just the way it is and if there is more to it that we should know he will reveal this also - in his time. But then I've been doing a little research, and have read that your C

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-07 Thread Dave
David Miller wrote: > Dave Hansen wrote: > > The part of your posts I found disagreeable with is that > > you suggested SWK said we "must" do this (eliminate sins > > and become perfect) in this life, implying (and no, you > > did not specifically say the following) that failure to > > do so cau

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-07 Thread Dave
DaveH:   My most recent comments are in GREEN.. Judy Taylor wrote:  DAVEH:  God had the ability to create a world without sin, and to offer an easy salvation.  But that is not the way he did it. jt: God did create a world without sin and He does offer an easy salvation, after all it was he wh

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2004-01-07 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest post is in BLUE... Judy Taylor wrote:  DAVEH:  ???  Are you suggesting the people Paul referred to were not Christians?  Or...were not actually practicing baptism for the dead? jt: I'm saying that in Corinth there were a lot of heresies and error and that Paul used this one

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-16 Thread Blaine R Borrowman
he Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, that God lives, and etc". I always thought it was to attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan. (See Mark 3:22 through 3:29) >From: Blaine R Borrowman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTE

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-16 Thread Charles Perry Locke
(See Mark 3:22 through 3:29) > > > >From: Blaine R Borrowman > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? > >Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:37:16 -0700 > > > >For the record, the Mormon perspect

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-16 Thread Blaine R Borrowman
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? >Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:37:16 -0700 > >For the record, the Mormon perspective on this question::  The blasphemy >against the Holy Ghost is to shed innocent blood after having

RE: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-15 Thread David Miller
Blaine wrote: > I haven't seen you (or anyone, for that matter) show > much of anything CONCLUSIVELY. One of the main problems with "conclusive proof" is that unlike the Bible, we do not have the gold plates which supposedly were used to translate the texts. However, that is not the case with th

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-15 Thread Dean Moore
> [Original Message] > From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/15/2003 2:51:55 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? > > > **Someone put Dean writes: I did not write this Blaine (Below) did. > > > >

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-15 Thread Dave
Dean Moore wrote: > > > > For the record, the Mormon perspective on this question:: The blasphemy > > against the Holy Ghost is to shed innocent blood after having received a > > perfect knowledge via the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, that God > > lives, and etc. Persons without this p

Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-14 Thread Terry Clifton
 Blaine:There is nothing superficial about the working of the Holy Spirit.  When I first heard that the Mormons had  "another" Gospel, the Holy Spirit residing in me screamed that this was a lie.  I did  not need to know about all the lies within that Gospel to know that the whole thing was a

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-14 Thread Dean Moore
> > For the record, the Mormon perspective on this question:: The blasphemy > against the Holy Ghost is to shed innocent blood after having received a > perfect knowledge via the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, that God > lives, and etc. Persons without this perfect knowledge cannot com

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-13 Thread Charles Perry Locke
f the Holy Spirit to Satan. (See Mark 3:22 through 3:29) >From: Blaine R Borrowman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? >Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:37:16 -0700 > >For the record, the Mormo

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-13 Thread Blaine R Borrowman
For the record, the Mormon perspective on this question:: The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is to shed innocent blood after having received a perfect knowledge via the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, that God lives, and etc. Persons without this perfect knowledge cannot commit this sin.

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-13 Thread Blaine R Borrowman
    On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:33:38 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I believe He was trying to say If you know the truth You will be able to identify error (or lies) by comparing it to the real McCoy   BlaineRB:  Sorry, I didn't see any real comparisons shown--

Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-13 Thread Terry Clifton
patient. Terry   ---Original Message---   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, December 13, 2003 20:34:37 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?   BlaineRB:  Yeah, Terry, I think I see what you are trying to say, but it seems like you are just

Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-13 Thread Blaine R Borrowman
BlaineRB:  Yeah, Terry, I think I see what you are trying to say, but it seems like you are just labeling (so that when someone presents a load of BS ).  To say Mormonism is a "load of BS," or "the lie sticks out like a hair on a biscuit," is one thing, to show it is in that category is yet

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-13 Thread Dean Moore
> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/12/2003 10:23:26 PM > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? > > Dean wrote: > > *Hi David-I asked you a question earlier and failed > > to r

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-12 Thread David Miller
Dean wrote: > *Hi David-I asked you a question earlier and failed > to read your answer. Again could you tell me if a > person that speaks against the Holy Ghost can still > become saved and enter heaven? A person who blasphemes the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven or saved. I gave a more full

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-12 Thread Dean Moore
    How dare youattack my integrity and then publicy do what you accuse me of. I think that is despicable. * Kevin he did the same type of multiplication with me-by taking my words out of context of the original statement-Honesty must not be a part of the Mormon teachings or maybe when

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-12 Thread David Miller
Dave Hansen wrote: > The part of your posts I found disagreeable with is that > you suggested SWK said we "must" do this (eliminate sins > and become perfect) in this life, implying (and no, you > did not specifically say the following) that failure to > do so causes one to be cast into the lak

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-12 Thread Kevin Deegan
 DAVEH SAYS: The part of your posts I found disagreeable with is that you suggested SWK said we "must" do this (eliminate sins and become perfect) in this life, implying (and no, you did not specifically say the following) that failure to do so causes one to be cast into the lake of fire.  As I rea

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-12 Thread michael douglas
  jt: I understand what you are saying but not the point of all of it.  Why accuse God? This is just the way it is and if there is more to it that we should know he will reveal this also - in his time. But then I've been doing a little research, and have read that your Church believes that the

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-12 Thread Dave
  DAVEH:  Kevin, I am not suggesting that the overall nature of THE MIRACLE OF FORGIVENESS does not encourage mankind to repent while in mortality.  SWK is very insistent that repenting is a major part of our reason for existing in mortality.  He also counsels against putting off repenting until

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-12 Thread Kevin Deegan
YOU COULD NOT FIND "The Prophet states you must be PERFECT NOW" I CUT & PASTE SOME OF THE PARTS THAT TEACH THE ABOVE assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is pe

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in GREEN... Kevin Deegan wrote: MY COMMENTS ARE BOLD & CAPITALIZED!STARTING AT ABOUT MIDWAY DOWN ON PAGE 208WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING HEADING & TEXTWE WILL CONTINUE THRU PG 209 TILL WE HIT 210 Repentant Life Seeks Perfection  One could multiply references almost ind

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Kevin Deegan
I Do Not cut & paste other's comments once in a great while, maybe.   I have every volume that I have quoted on TT. Why I commented on the quotes? This ios the purpose of TT. I could simply post just quotes, but we are interested in discussion correct? I was commenting and restating what is taught

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Dave
DAVEH: My latest post is in GREEN... Wednesday---Kevin wrote: OK, The Prophet states you must be PERFECT NOW You state it can wait, you are not perfect now Who is right? Are you a General Authority, in order to contradict another General Authority? It says you MUS

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Kevin Deegan
MY COMMENTS ARE BOLD & CAPITALIZED! STARTING AT ABOUT MIDWAY DOWN ON PAGE 208 WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING HEADING & TEXT WE WILL CONTINUE THRU PG 209 TILL WE HIT 210   Repentant Life Seeks Perfection    One could multiply references almost indefinitely but enough has been said to establish the point tha

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread David Miller
As a moderator of the list, I need to step in here and provide some guidance.  I don’t want misunderstandings to cause hard feelings toward one another.  Please bear with me as I try and share an outsider’s perspective here.  I’m not trying to take sides, just make some observations and a

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Kevin Deegan
I see that you are the one, who took the LIBERTY to MISQUOTE me! It is actually you who is guilty of MISQUOTING. I am deeply offended that you would misqoute me & at the same time accuse me of that which you are guilty of! You have put " " around my words. It was not there; you did it. The PROOF is

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Charles Perry Locke
ruths only to those who have proven their worthiness through secret oaths, grips, tokens, and penalties. Perry >From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? >Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:12:23 -080

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Dave
  Kevin Deegan wrote: Oh so NOW I am Misquoting.Please provide an example just one will do. DAVEH:  When you below quoted "WE MUST BECOME PERFECT NOW", that was NOT part of SWK's text. With all the LDS quotes I have posted this should be a EASY thing to do. If it were only so. DAVEH:  SWK did not

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread David Miller
DaveH wrote: > Until I know what you and DavidM define it, I can't say > one way or the other.  All I can tell you is what I > understand the Bible says..and that is that without > baptism, one cannot be fully saved.  For the record, I do NOT believe that baptism is a requirement without w

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Kevin Deegan
 FYI the 'Primitive Christians'  he is reffering to were PAGANS Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH:  My latest post is in GREEN... jt: Where do you read that without baptism one can not be fully saved in the Bible? dh: That is why I believe some of the early Christians practiced b

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-11 Thread Kevin Deegan
Oh so NOW I am Misquoting. Please provide an example just one will do. With all the LDS quotes I have posted this should be a EASY thing to do. If it were only so.   Trying to poisen the well? If you can discredit me, then maybe others will not listen. If the facts are facts, then they are able to

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
  Charles Perry Locke wrote: DaveH: In order for one to feel "comfortable", as you put it, one does not have to know the truth. One only has to believe that one knows the truth. DAVEH:  Do you suppose that is true (and I did not mean that as a pun) on both sides of the fence, Perry? -- ~~

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH:  God had the ability to create a world without sin, and to offer an easy salvation.  But that is not the way he did it. jt: God did create a world without sin and He does offer an easy salvation, after all it was he who provided the lamb. *DAVEH:   And did he

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest post is in GREEN.. Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH:  No, not at all.  The Lord's plan of "salvation" was infinitely better than the Adversary's plan.  (I could explain why, but some in TT would accuse me of preaching Mormonism, or even worse!)  To me, the plan of salvation as enve

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
  Kevin Deegan wrote: CMON Davethere is more to the story than you let on here.Why not fill her in on the "fall upward"? DAVEH:  I don't recall her asking. I agree that a caring person would not place someone in a situation that is harmful. DAVEH:  So then let me ask you, Kevin..From your per

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
  DAVEH:  My latest post is in GREEN... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   jt: Where do you read that without baptism one can not be fully saved in the Bible? dh: That is why I believe some of the early Christians practiced baptism for the dead.  Otherwise, it would have not been necessary (in their

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Charles Perry Locke
DaveH: In order for one to feel "comfortable", as you put it, one does not have to know the truth. One only has to believe that one knows the truth. cpl >From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] T

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Kevin Deegan
DAVEH:  No, not at all.  The Lord's plan of "salvation" was infinitely better than the Adversary's plan.  (I could explain why, but some in TT would accuse me of preaching Mormonism, or even worse!)  To me, the plan of salvation as enveloped in the gospel has a grand an noble purpose that requires

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Kevin Deegan
CMON Dave there is more to the story than you let on here. Why not fill her in on the "fall upward"? I agree that a caring person would not place someone in a situation that is harmful. But again that too does not conform to LDS doctrine. CMON Dave, I am starting to think that you are being purpose

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest post is in RED... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   DaveH: pretend world".  The reason for that is that the world I live in answers the questions I posed to you (and others in TT.)  jt: I see your big hangup is 'why did God allow sin when he could have pre

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:    DAVEH:   I do admit to feeling rather comfortable in my "pretend world".  The reason for that is that the world I live in answers the questions I posed to you (and others in TT.) > I see your big hangup is 'why did God allow sin when he could have prevented it?' whi

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread ShieldsFamily
10, 2003 7:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?   In a message dated 12/9/2003 6:21:39 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What leads you to believe that those in Paradise ascended "that day"? Could it not be that he preached in

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread LaurHamm
In a message dated 12/9/2003 6:21:39 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What leads you to believe that those in Paradise ascended "that day"?Could it not be that he preached in the heart of the earth for threedays, rose from the dead, then entered heaven and ministered in thetem

Fw: Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Terry Clifton
       To me, it seems obvious, so I sometimes do not use all the words that I should to convey my meaning to others.  Take it like this.  If you are the owner of an orange grove, you know what oranges look like, where they come from, how much a box of oranges weighs, sell for, etc.  Now, if

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
  Kevin Deegan wrote: judgment follows death by some time Do you believe in a Mormon purgatory? DAVEH:  You'll have to define it for me, Kevin.  That term is foreign to LDS theology.  Are you guys general Authorities? DAVEH:  Naw.   (At least I'm not, and if Blaine isI think he is ju

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
  Terry Clifton wrote: So Terry, do you agree with my above explanation of why you misunderstand the perceived salvation of the thief? No.  I believe that you are appointed once to die, and then the judgment.  If you are not saved when you draw your last breath, you will open your eyes in

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-10 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest post is RED... Judy Taylor wrote:  To me it seems pretty logical that if God revealed his secrets to prophets in Bible times, he would continue doing so afterwards.even unto this day.  I have heard that some Christians believe the heavens are sealed though.do you bel

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread Kevin Deegan
judgment follows death by some time Do you believe in a Mormon purgatory? Are you guys general Authorities? The prophets words are scripture. He does not have to say "thus saith the Lord" The Prophet Spencer W Kimball said "Christ became perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we bec

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread David Miller
Judy wrote: > You are accusing me of writing > something I never wrote. Sorry, Judy, but I wasn't accusing you of anything. I apparently misunderstood you and so I asked for you to clarify your understanding. You had written the following: > The thief went to Paradise with Jesus that very day

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread Kevin Deegan
I believe He was trying to say If you know the truth You will be able to identify error (or lies) by comparing it to the real McCoy   I have heard it said that Bank employees & Treasury agents do not take a class in Identifying, Forgery or Counterfieting. They are so familiar with the real thing, h

Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread Terry Clifton
 To me, it seems obvious, so I sometimes do not use all the words that I should to convey my meaning to others.  Take it like this.  If you are the owner of an orange grove, you know what oranges look like, where they come from, how much a box of oranges weighs, sell for, etc.  Now, if you we

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread Blaine R Borrowman
Hi terry, I just HAD to butt in on your conversation with DavidH.  You said, " If you know the truth, you will know a lie, even though you have not studied the lie."  I am amazed you could write this contradiction.  Are you sure this is what you meant?   Shalom,   BlaineRB

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread Terry Clifton
    .So Terry, do you agree with my above explanation of why you misunderstand the perceived salvation of the thief?   No.  I believe that you are appointed once to die, and then the judgment.  If you are not saved when you draw your last breath, you will open your eyes in hell

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote to Judy: > What leads you to believe that those in Paradise ascended > "that day"? Could it not be that he preached in the heart > of the earth for three days, rose from the dead, then > entered heaven and ministered in the temple there, then > led Paradise to heaven at that

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-09 Thread David Miller
Judy wrote: > The thief went to Paradise with Jesus that very day > ascended with the rest of the ppl in Abraham's bosom > with Jesus when he ascended but he was in Paradise > with him THAT DAY. What leads you to believe that those in Paradise ascended "that day"? Could it not be that he prea

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-08 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in PINK... Judy Taylor wrote: DAVEH:  To whom the prophets does he reveal those secretsAmos 3:7"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." jt: Please don't  follow this by claiming that Joseph Smith is

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-08 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest reply is in GREEN Terry Clifton wrote: DAVEH:  Do you suppose the 'salvation' Jesus referred to coming to Zacchaeus' house (Lk 19:9)  might refer to the author of salvation (Jesus) abiding at his house (Lk 19:5)?  > the cross, both of which would seem to punch holes

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-08 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote: >> Are you seriously going to say that Martin Luther's >> teaching on this matter was not from the Scriptures? Judy wrote: > If he taught baptismal regeneration, yes I would say that. You speak as if you have not read Martin Luther's Scriptural arguments for baptismal regener

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-08 Thread David Miller
Judy wrote: > Regeneration by baptism is NOT a scriptural teaching. This statement seems rather arrogant to me. Surely you must understand that very good students of the Scriptures have held to regeneration by baptism. For example, Martin Luther believed it. Luther was a champion of saved by gr

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-08 Thread Terry Clifton
    DAVEH:  Do you suppose the 'salvation' Jesus referred to coming to Zacchaeus' house (Lk 19:9)  might refer to the author of salvation (Jesus) abiding at his house (Lk 19:5)?  > the cross, both of which would seem to punch holes in your argument,

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-08 Thread Dave
David Miller wrote: > David Miller wrote: > >> Jesus was convicted of being seditious. > > DAVEH: > > A trumped up charge... > > Of course, but from my perspective, street preachers often suffer > similar trumped up charges. Now I grant you that there are loony > zealots out there too that

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-07 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  TerryWhile searching my old posts to respond to Dean, I discovered that I had previously posted a reply to your below question.  My latest post is in RED.  My previous post to you of May 15 of this year is in BLUE... Terry Clifton wrote: DAVEH:  While baptism in

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-07 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in BLUE... Judy Taylor wrote:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH:  The point I'm trying to make (and find out why Protestants believe as they do), is that God could have created us and the world that way (devoid of the problems) from Day 1.  Yet for some reason, h

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-05 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest post is in BLUE Terry Clifton wrote:   DAVEH:  While baptism in itself will not save anybody, I firmly believe without baptism, one cannot be saved.  (Mk 16:16 and Jn 3:5) C'mon Dave:Read Luke.  Start at 19:2 and read down to 19:9. DAVEH:  I read it, and I think the me

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-05 Thread Terry Clifton
  DAVEH:  While baptism in itself will not save anybody, I firmly believe without baptism, one cannot be saved.  (Mk 16:16 and Jn 3:5)   C'mon Dave: Read Luke.  Start at 19:2 and read down to 19:9.  You will find a little fellow that was saved with no mention of baptism.  S

Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-05 Thread Judy Taylor
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in GREEN... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH:  The point I'm trying to make (and find out why Protestants believe as they do), is that God could have created us and the world that way (devoid of the problems) from Day 1.  Yet for some reason, he al

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-05 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in GREEN... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Hi Dave, you write: DAVEH:  The point I'm trying to make (and find out why Protestants believe as they do), is that God could have created us and the world that way (devoid of the problems) from Day 1.  Yet for some reason,

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-02 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest contribution is in GREEN... Dean Moore wrote: Dean writes:  Judy, Mormons view the fall of Man as a good thing that allows them to work themselves to Godhood. Their offering to God is Cain's offering to God which was the works of his hands-same as Satan' way of using th

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-02 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest post is in GREEN. Dean Moore wrote: Stop this sin now or I will burn you in a devils Hell". DAVEH:  Is that the manner in which you (or any other Christian) would threaten your children in an effort to change them, Carroll?#Dean writes: No DaveH I would not but I am not God

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-02 Thread Dean Moore
  Stop this sin now or I will burn you in a devils Hell". DAVEH:  Is that the manner in which you (or any other Christian) would threaten your children in an effort to change them, Carroll? #Dean writes:  No DaveH I would not but I am not God with the right to take or give life. To look at this

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-02 Thread Dean Moore
    Dean writes:  Judy, Mormons view the fall of Man as a good thing that allows them to work themselves to Godhood. Their offering to God is Cain's offering to God which was the works of his hands-same as Satan' way of using the fig leaves to cover one sinful nakedness in the sight of God-

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-02 Thread Dave
DAVEH:  My latest comments are in RED... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>DAVEH:  As I understand Protestant theology, God created Satan and knew what Satan would do.  He also created Adam and Eve and knew what they were going to do.  Unless God i

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-01 Thread Dave Hansen
DAVEH:  My most recent post is in BLUE. Carrolll Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/26/2003 7:58:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?  No suggestions.  I am stating plainly that God has given you an option.  Love sin

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-12-01 Thread Dave Hansen
  Carrolll Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/28/2003 2:26:53 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?   DAVEH:  My latest comments are in GREEN.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PRO

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-11-28 Thread Carrolll Moore
      - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/28/2003 2:26:53 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?  DAVEH:  My latest comments are in GREEN.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   

Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-11-28 Thread Carrolll Moore
      - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/27/2003 4:34:53 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?  DAVEH:  My latest post is in RED. Carrolll Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/26

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-11-28 Thread Dave
 DAVEH:  My latest comments are in GREEN.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:    [EMAIL PROTECTED]>DAVEH:  As I understand Protestant theology, God created Satan and knew what Satan would do.  He also created Adam and Eve and knew what they were g

RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?

2003-11-28 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote: >> Jesus was convicted of being seditious. DAVEH: > A trumped up charge... Of course, but from my perspective, street preachers often suffer similar trumped up charges. Now I grant you that there are loony zealots out there too that act inappropriately, but I don't thin

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