RE: Ginger's Miracle

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Nina and everyone else who
responded to my cry of help regarding Ginger not eating for a week and for all
your healing vibes you sent to my little Ginger. I am so grateful and cannot find right
words to express my gratitude.



When I got home on Friday, I went to visit
Ginger right away (she is in a separate room from all other cats) 

All of her food on the plates (a couple of
them) that I had left that morning was completely licked clean!! I couldnt believe my eyes. Ever
since, she is doing just fabulous.
She almost acts like a completely different kitty! Her appetite is so excellent 
better than ever  she probably eats more than any of my other adult
kitties  everything I put out she completely finishes it. Thank god!



I am not sure what to attribute for the
changes  the only things I can think of  homeopathic remedy which
was suggested by my holistic vet, Pustilla, based on Gingers
personality, and a shot of v-B complex, and lots of prayers and healing vibes
from all of you! She is such a
fighter  she is doing better and better every day  I can tell she
has already put some more weight just from the past couple of days.



I hope that she continues to eat well and
pray well  she is just so previous and sweet to me  when I visit
and hold her  she looks at me into my eyes and almost knows exactly what
I am thinking  she is my previous little miracle. I am schedule to take
her in this afternoon for check-up  I am almost not want to do so
because it will stress her and dont want anything to change to
backwards.



By the way, I had a phone consultation
with Dr. Basko in Hawaii (his name was mentioned in the book of Dr. Martine Goldstein) and
discussed about Gingers situation.
And here are some of the things that he suggested that I give to
Ginger. I would like to share with
you in case anyone else find it helpful for their
kitties. He is a holistic vet and
not everyone may feel that its a right thing for your FeLV+ kitties 
but in case you feel that it is, here you go.



He suggested that I give Ginger additionally


Reishi mushroom

Maitake mushroom

Astragals

B-12 and Folic acid 



Just so that you know, I have been already
giving Ginger the following:

Transfer Factor plus (human kind)

Aloe Vera juice

Mega C plus

V-E

CoQ 10 enzyme

Kelp/Alphalpha

DMG



He also had a very
similar receipt of Liver shake as well  



When I first tried to
give the shake to Ginger, she did not eat so I gave it to her in a syringe
 then last night, she drank it form the remaining in the bowl herself! She is just a good girl!



Again thank you so much
for all your kind words  I was so alone and needed to talk to someone 
and you guys have been so wonderful to me and Ginger  please continue to
send her healing vibes for Ginger and prayers as she can use all she can get!



Thank you!!

Hideyo  Ginger

RE: Gypsy

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I think I might have suggested Surphur 
it did some miracle to many of my kitties including the one with serious
chronic IBD (diarrhea) type of problem  Arsenicum is good for vomiting -
but according to my vet, you really dont want to mix with other remedy,
and wait 12 to 24 hours before trying a different one.



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005
8:53 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Gypsy



Thanks for asking,
Michelle. Gypsy's been getting Penicillin injections for 8 days
now. She's also been on a product called Nutrigest, (which includes the
L-Glutamine you suggested), Thuja, and Vita B12 shots. She's also been on
a diet of chicken breast or cod boiled with a seaweed called Kombu and
cabbage. Something has helped because she's a bit more active and her
appetite has improved. Unfortunately, her bowel movements are still dark
and liquid. If she's gained any weight, it's hard to tell, she's still
skin and bones. I called my new vet today and she said I might as well
take her off the Penicillin. I asked her about sulphur, (someone on the
list suggested, I'm sorry I can't remember who), and Arsenicum Album,
(suggested by Patti).

The vet thought the Arsenicum would be better if Gypsy suffered with vomiting
(which is a symptom of IBD that Gypsy doesn't have). She suggested I try
Calc. Phos and Nat Sulph 3 x daily. These are homeopathics
and I'm not suppose to mix them in food. She wants me to grind them up
and put them in her mouth between her cheek and teeth. Very funny.

So I'm planning yet another trip to the health food store tomorrow. I'll
let you know how she responds.

How's Lucy? How are you? Did you get that link Bonnie sent a while
ago about caregiver syndrome and the extreme loss they feel when their loved
one crosses? Here it is again: http://www.specialneedspets.org/caregvrs.htm


Take care of yourself,
Nina 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Nina,
how is Gypsy doing? I have not noticed a post about her for a 
while. Michelle

RE: For Hideyo -- Your loss of Suzi

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you for writing to me.

I am certainly responsible in a way that I requested that I picked up
Suzi (and all the other kitties I have spayed/neutered I the past)as
soon as the surgery was done in stead of them waiting at the clinic for
the rest of the day - this was suggested by Dr. Addie who research FIP
intensively to avoid any additional stress for corona virus positive
cats - 
We do have a clinic in my town as you described below - but since they
are my own cats, I take them to my vet - the main reason why I did not
want to use the clinic was due to the type of anesthesia they use - they
use kedamin(?) and I almost lost one of the tom cats I trapped a couple
of years ago due to the reaction - so ever since them, I have been
taking them to my own vet since they use gas anesthesia - out of 9
litter kitties, Suzi was the very last one to go through the surgery (I
did over the course of several months) - so I probably did not pay good
enough attention, I was not too worried as the first 8 went well with no
problem. - I used to bring them the first thing in the morning, and my
vet would do surgery on them right away without them waiting so that
their stress is minimal, and as soon as they are awake and they seem ok,
then she would let me take them home, which worked out well for everyone
else.  Except that I took Suzi and Yoshi that day, and I decided to take
Yoshi home first after her surgery was done first and then I was going
to come back before Suzi's surgery was over to pick Suzi up - and I was
late, and was not there when she woke up and when she needed me most.
Since the vet thought that I was on the way, they put her in a carrier.
Sure,  they should have paid attention to Suzi until I got there - but
it was definitely my fault, too.  I think something different happened
during the surgeries, as Yoshi also ran fever (106) that afternoon, too.
The doctor said that suzi's throat was all swollen, and Yoshi's tongue
was swollen, too.  But, if I was there 10 min. earlier, Suzi was alive,
and I would have know something was wrong right away!

Anyway, I think that I will always live with the pain regardless - but
more than anything else - I just simply miss her, I would do anything if
I could spend another day, another hour, or another minute with her - 

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:57 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: For Hideyo -- Your loss of Suzi

Dear Hideyo:

I can't really add anything to what Nina said and said so well.

I am a bit surprised, however, to hear that the vet sent her home with
you so 
soon after the surgery.  Didn't you say she had only been awake for
100-15 
min.??

I volunteer with an organization that does Spay/Neuter events for ferals

once/month.  The vets donate their time and we do them on a Sunday when
most 
surgival facilities are not being used.  The object is to do as many
ferals as 
possible in the one day, but also to do it SAFELY, for the sake of the
cats.  We 
have teams of volunteers that work in concert with the vets/vet techs to
handle 
the anesthesia, surgical prep, surgery (by vets only, of course), post
op 
care and recovery.  We normally do between 30-50 cats in a day and do
not release 
any cats until they are well awake and have been observed for an
extended 
period of time and we are pretty sure all is well.  While it may seem
that this 
sort of assembly line approach may not be the best, we haven't (knock on
wood) 
lost one yet in several years.  After surgery, we monitor the cats very 
closely with regard to their pulse/respiration and keep them warm and
quiet.  Most, 
typically, are held for at least an hour or two after their surgery,
with 
those who are done earlier in the day it is longer.

So, I guess I would question whether or not the vet who did Suzi's
surgery 
had done everything that he/she should have to make sure Suzi was coming
out of 
the anesthesia OK and that there had been no complications.  Any kind of

surgery is stressful for even a domesticated cat, and for ferals there
is an added 
stress factor due to their being unaccustomed to handling.

Whatever went wrong that caused Suzi to fail and not recover from the 
surgery, it was certainly not due to any fault or negligence on your
part.  You were 
trying the best you knew how to give her a better chance in life.  
Spaying/neutering is one of those things that needs to be done to cut
down on the 
indiscriminate breeding behavior that is the main vector for the
transmission of 
diseases like FIV, FeLV, etc. in feral populations.  If more
governmental 
bureaucracies would realize this is the single most important thing that
can be done 
with limited resources to help put an end to unnecessary suffering and
pet 
overpopulation both in domesticated and feral populations (instead of
putting 
funds into testing and euthanasia for ferals), it would make a 

Ginger's mom

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

As you know already, I rescued
Ginger about 4 months ago at the parking lot at my work (I had rescued 8 other
cats from the colony a couple of years ago also )  Gingers mom is
still out there  and I have always wanted to rescue her, but I have not 
but now Ginger is positive, and am wondering if the mama is positive for FeLV 
but am not sure even if she is negative, if she is really negative ( as I heard
that it may show positive on bone marrow though it may not show positive on
blood work)  I will have a really difficult time releasing her once I
trap as the area she is in is not very comfortable place - 

What are the chances for the mother
being really negative when their babies are positive  I think the mama
had 6 or 7 litters including Ginger, but I stopped seeing them completely after
a few weeks their birth (I was afraid that maybe they all died due to feLK?? 
this is just after the thought as I did not know that Ginger had FeLK  so
I go back and forth, but I dont know what to do with the mama kitty, I
dont want her to have more litter of kittens, obviously, but I need to
have some type of plan  and where Ginger lives right now, it is too small
of space to have another kitty  (as I am already running out of space) -

RE: So Worried and Irritated (Cherie)

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Dear Cherie 

Sorry, I so dont meant to scare you,
but my little boy who was 6 month old died from Baytrill  he only had a light
sneeze and was not FelV+ or anything  he was eating and playing well,
again just sneeze  but as soon as I gave the pill to him, he stopped
eating and died within 72 hours  dont know exactly what happened
-I am sure that no one heard of this before (and no vet will believe it even
my own vet who prescribed it)  but it happened to my little boy -



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 2:10 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: So Worried and
Irritated (Cherie)





Sally,





Thanks for the info...I am a newer kid on the block, I
am not sure why my vet likes Baytril, but every time my positive kitty gets
sick that is what clears it up, we only do half a pill though.





Cherie

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:





Dear Cherie:

You need to keep in mind that with antibiotics, one size doesn't fit all. 
Different antibiotics are indicated for different types of infections,
depending 
on whether you are dealing with gram-negative or gram-posoitive bacteria, and 
some abx seem to be more indicated for infections in the mouth or eyes or 
colon as opposed to a system-wide application.

Baytril is a broad-spectrum abx and one of the bigger guns available in the 
abx arsenal. If you start with the biggest gun available and that isn't 
working or the animal develops a resistance to it, you have nowhere left to
turn, 
which is why some vets are reluctant to start out with an abx like Baytril 
unless there is a clear indication for it.

Sally in San Jose

RE: San Fran feral champion

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

It's pretty amazing - 90% of my cats are feral, and there are about a
dozen of them that are still very feral - so feral that I cannot even
touch or pet them (though I love them as much) - I can't imagine the
dedication for the people who take care of Feral with feLV to give
medications to - I am simply impressed and makes me cry - thank you for
what you do!!

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 3:19 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: San Fran  feral champion

You see Sally, this is why I love you.  Yeah!  Let's hear it for feral 
lovers.  I love this SF program, just wonderful to know there are humans

out there who care.  Any article or info you can share with me would be 
great to pass on to the cretins that think it is wiser to trap and kill,

instead of TNR.  There was a rumor that one of our area military bases 
was convinced that the former was the way to go.  It would be great to 
have some study backup (not just my two cents), or a well phrased 
article from a respected source that explains why TNR is so effective.

Also - thank you for the transfer factor.  Grace has been feeling kind 
of low and it's nice to have something extra to give her.  I'll let you 
know if it seems to help her, in the meantime it means alot to me to 
have something, (anything) extra to do.
Nina

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi Kerry...

I can't remember if I ever sent you a message after Levi passed away.
That 
was a crazy weekend for me and then we were having so many problems
with the 
list and I was enduring my own kind of AOHell.  When I couldn't log on,
an 
outsourced consultant told me my AOL software was damaged and my disc
drive, for 
whatever reason, could or would not read a disc to reinstall it and
they told me 
nothing could be done.  But I started digging on my own, computer dummy
that 
I am, and decided to try defragging the drives, even though only one
drive was 
16% fragmented.  That seemed to do the trick and I was able to log on
again 
to find an overflowing mailbox.

You have my utmost admiration for all your efforts dealing with FeLV+
ferals 
who are not cuddly and cooperative with regards to getting meds.  It is

difficult enough when you are trying to dose a cat who is even halfway
cooperative.  
You did the very best you could trying to help Levi.  Perhaps he tried
so 
hard to stick around even though it was apparent he was not going to be
able to 
get well because his alpha personality made him think he had to try and
be 
there for his remaining siblings. He was sure a gutsy little guy and
you did the 
best you could to try and help him.  Sometimes our best is just not
enough, and 
this is so often true when dealing with FeLV.  If we can keep them
stable 
with immune support and a good diet and try to minimize the stress in
their life, 
that is about the best we can do  until it is better understood what it
is 
that causes the FeLV-A subgroup to mutate into one of the more virulent

subgroups, and a way can be found to stall or halt that process (better
yet a cure for 
the whole damned gamut of FeLV and its subgroups!)  Levi and his
littermates 
were so lucky to have come into your care, and I am sure he and the
others 
know that.  The pain of the losses may never go away completely, but we
have to 
put it in perspective and go on trying to help the others still in our
care.

I could really feel for what you have to go through after I rescued a
little 
5 mo. old off the E-list at the local shelter to be a playmate for
Purrki, my 
miracle bably who retested negative for FeLV when he was neutered in
Dec. '04. 
 She was on the E-list because she had a minor URI and the new Shelter
is not 
yet set up to hold and treat cats symptomatic for any length of time,
so if 
whatever symptoms they have don't clear in a few days, they go on the
list to 
be PTS.  I was not able to isolate Purrla successfully and ended up
with a URI 
epidemic among my indoor cats.  URI's are more annoying than a real
threat to 
healthy cats.  But even my two FeLV+ furkids isolated in a back bedroom
were 
affected and they are still semi-feral.  Tango, the brother, did very
well and 
I only had to wrap him up in a towel the first two times and he was OK
after 
that about getting his meds.  His sister, Macarena, however is still so
very 
shy, I as really worried it would set back her socialization and
acceptance of 
me that I've worked so hard to achieve.  When I had to go out of town
the 
weekend of the 5-7th, I was worried sick about having to go away and
being able to 
find someone who could come give meds to them.  Luckily, I was able to
find 
two ladies through the local network of rescue groups and both kittys
actually 
did much better than I thought they would and neither of the postives
became 
seriously ill.  By the time I got back, no one was still couging or
congested, 
just a bit of sneezing, and all were eating 

RE: Ginger's appointment

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Hi, Julie, thank you for your email.

Thats another reason why I hesitate
to bring Ginger in  if my vet or vets tech assistant examined
other kitties prior to Ginger, she could catch something either from their hand
or clothes or thermometer, too  I was going to bring Gingers own thermometer
though just in case  but I think about all sort of things to avoid any
risks if you know what I mean -



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Julie Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005
7:02 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Ginger's appointment





Dear Hideyo,











I agree with Barb; I
think your precautions are fine and they are certainly more than I do when I
handle an FeLV+ cat. I simply wash my hands with soap and water. 











Think about it; does the
vet go through anything more rigorous after examining an FeLV+ cat? I do
not currently have any FeLV+ cats, but I stopped vaccinating against FeLV as
soon as it was implicated in VAS. I do not mix my FeLV+ cats, they always
have a separate room. My Encore, who tested postive after having been
negative, shared a room with 4 other cats who were too shy to be in the general
population. She had prolonged contact and shared litter, food and
water. The cats she was in the room with have continued to test negative.
(KNOCK WOOD!)











I thought about the
insulin syringes being much thinner than other kinds of syringes, too; I wonder
if it could make a difference? Like you, I have to do some research and
track down that whole study.











Julie













Barb Moermond
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







With those precautions, I
think you're completely safe. The concensus is that it takes prolonged
intimate contact to transfer the virus and that the virus is extremely fragile
and short-lived outside the host. There are many people on this list who
mix their positives and negatives knowingly for various reasons and, list
members please correct me if I'm wrong, there is not one instance in a knowing
mix- with the negatives vaccinated, that the virus was transferred. There
are others who keep their positives separated but don't take your bleaching and
clothes changing precautions and I think that there also, no transmission of
virus has occurred. There are the sad cases where a FeLV+ was brought in
and the status was NOT known and the virus was transmitted to other negative,
non-vaccinated kitties.

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I am not sure which
doctor studied it, but I will do some research and try to find out.



Do you think there is a
great risk of my other cats to get FeLV?
I do worry I wash my hands with bleach (1-bleach  8 water)
all the time, before and after visiting Ginger, and change my clothes and socks
every time, and before and after  do you think there is still a risk?



I read that FeLV virus
does not live outside of the body more than a few seconds (and some other
literature says a few hours and I am not sure what is more
realistic information  do you know?
I am curious) 



I would appreciate any of
your input on this  because I have 20 plus cats in my house though they
dont have a direct contact at all with Ginger, I do not want to assume
that it is ok - and vice versa, most of
my other cats are exposed to corona virus positive.



Thank you!



Hideyo



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005
2:13 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Ginger's appointment



Hideyo,

 and what they found out is that
cancers/tumors are not caused by vaccine itself, but rather by
injections  they did testing with a control group with
saline solutions and they still found cancers/tumors from the group 

I hadn't heard this before, and it is of great concern to me too. Do you
know the name of the doctor who quoted the study? Would you please call
him and ask which study he's talking about? I'd very much like to read it
for myself. I have been shooting three of my babies so full of holes,
(Penicillin, VO, B12), that I expect them to start leaking when they
drink! 

We had a discussion about vaccines not too long ago. I didn't read the
links because I've already decided not to subject my animals to any more
vaccines unless they are absolutely necessary. They have all been
inoculated in the past and I suspect that the boosters pose more
risk than they're worth. Someone on the list talked about blood testing
to determine whether an animal's titers indicated if they needed them. 

If you read the archives, you'll see that I have a semi-feral, Gypsy, with IBD
that I suspect was caused by over vaccination. I am concerned, however,
about your not vaccinating your cats for FeLV with a positive in the
house. Even with Ginger in another room, you are exposing them to a great
risk.

As far as taking Ginger to the vet... What did you expect the vet to do
for her? If she

RE: Ginger's appointment

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I just cant
remember what article suggested distilled over filtered given benefit of
filtered water as you mentioned  I think thats why I sticked to distilled
water  if I find it, I will definitely share!



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005
2:56 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Ginger's appointment







In a
message dated 2/15/2005 7:04:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:





I'm thinking that
filtered water might be better than distilled, just for the trace elements and
depending on supplements/diet.







I agree about the filtered water. Originally, I'd been using
distilled until my vet told me that w/ distilled H2O, ALL trace elements are
removed,and that is not necessarily a good thing.





With filtered H2O, it does contain vital trace elements/minerals.





Patti

RE: bone marrow test

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Does anyone know how invasive it is to do
bone marrow level testing on FeLV?

RE: bone marrow test

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Well  I am not sure if I am really
going to pursuit or not  but if I
catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing
her (she is a feral kitty)  she looks really good, but if she tested
negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may
have to consider the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties 
but I know that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone
marrow (it happened to one of my friends kitty) - 



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
2:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





Who would you want to get
that done on? Your positive kitty or negative?





Cherie

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Does anyone know how
invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?

RE: bone marrow test

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

No, I would never do anything to make them
go through something so painful  and that was the purpose of my
question, I did not know if its painful for a kitty or not to go
through. 



If I ever catch her, I would keep her whether
she is positive or negative on anything for that matter (thats why I
ended up with 50 plus feral cats, I guess)  but it will determine where
and with whom I should keep her with  if you know what I mean.



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
2:45 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





But, would you want to
put any kitty through that kind of pain, and if she is negative would you get
rid of her? Also, if she tests negative on a blood test that should be good
enough to go on...I feel.

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Well  I am not
sure if I am really going to pursuit or not
 but if I catch Gingers mama, I think I want to try to
keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral kitty)  she looks really
good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I feel that I need to know if she is
really negative as I may have to consider the possibility of keeping her with
other negative kitties  but I know that kitties can be negative on blood
test, but positive on bone marrow (it happened to one of my friends
kitty) - 



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
2:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





Who would you want to get
that done on? Your positive kitty or negative?





Cherie

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Does
anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?

RE: bone marrow test

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Cherie, please dont worry  I
knew where you were coming from  and I am glad that there is someone
like you  some up who fights and stands up for kitties with special
needs  actually most of the cats I have do have a special need 
some FIV, and a diabetic cat, some with chronic urinary tract disease cats, and
etc.. but they are all so very precious to me! 



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
2:55 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





Well, that is good, I am
sorry to have jumped a little, but I can not stand people who want
perfection...sick kitties need love too...











I would definatetly not
get the test, if the blood work comes up negative, and you suspect something
just keep testing, it has to get in the blood sometime.





Cherie

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





No, I would never do
anything to make them go through something so painful  and that was the
purpose of my question, I did not know if its painful for a kitty or not
to go through. 



If I ever catch her, I
would keep her whether she is positive or negative on anything for that matter
(thats why I ended up with 50 plus feral cats, I guess)  but it
will determine where and with whom I should keep her with  if you know
what I mean.



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
2:45 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





But, would you want to
put any kitty through that kind of pain, and if she is negative would you get
rid of her? Also, if she tests negative on a blood test that should be good
enough to go on...I feel.

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Well
 I am not sure if I am really going to pursuit or not  but if I catch Gingers mama, I
think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a feral
kitty)  she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV, I
feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider
the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties  but I know
that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it
happened to one of my friends kitty) - 



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
2:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





Who would you want to get
that done on? Your positive kitty or negative?





Cherie

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Does
anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?

RE: bone marrow test

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Most of my cats were never been at a
shelter, I trapped them directly from each colony, and I have been taking care
of them for the past few years 
I sort of know which colony has which virus  as you do see a sort of
pattern, but I guess I will not know for sure of anything  





-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
3:20 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





But.how do you know
that none of your other cats is already carrying it in their bone marrow?
If a cat has been in a shelter, been in the wild, been in a home with many
cats. chances are it has at sometime been exposed..











t

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Well  I am not
sure if I am really going to pursuit or not  but if I catch Gingers
mama, I think I want to try to keep her in stead of releasing her (she is a
feral kitty)  she looks really good, but if she tested negative on FeLV,
I feel that I need to know if she is really negative as I may have to consider
the possibility of keeping her with other negative kitties  but I know
that kitties can be negative on blood test, but positive on bone marrow (it
happened to one of my friends kitty) - 



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
2:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





Who would you want to get
that done on? Your positive kitty or negative?





Cherie

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Does
anyone know how invasive it is to do bone marrow level testing on FeLV?

RE: bone marrow test

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thats absolutely true!



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
5:44 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: bone marrow test





But still that is added stress onto the body, healing
two wounds instead of one. Be it a superficial or surgery and time a forign
object goes in a attack from the white blood cells start, in turn activating
the virus

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Even if I was going to do, I was going to do so during
the time she is
being spayed, so that she doesn't have to go through another anesthesia
for it- 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:03 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: bone marrow test

I agree that I would not put a cat under just for FeLV testing. But as
for 
the painfulness, are you all saying it is painful during the test or
afterwards? 
Simon was out during the test, but I feel like I am in twilight zone if
you 
are all saying it is very painful afterwards because he really did not
seem to 
even notice it and both the oncologist and the internist said it was no
big 
deal. I would not have done something to him if the vets had said it
would be 
painful. Maybe a bone marrow biopsy for lymphoma, which is what he had,
is 
somehow different than what you are talking about, but I don't think so.
Michelle


In a message dated 2/21/05 6:45:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Very painful. The tricky thing with this and FeLV is that while they
may 
not show symptoms prior to the test, anesthesia can activate the virus.


Kind of a double edged sword... 

RE: bone marrow testat leastTesting for latent FeLV infection

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you very much, Nina. Its very helpful!



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005
5:44 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: bone marrow testat
leastTesting for latent FeLV infection



Hi Hideyo,
Just last month we had a discussion about how best to detect whether a cat is
harboring the virus latently. Especially when a cat has tested positive
and then later tests negative. There is something called a PCR
(Polymerase Chain Reaction), that one of our list members had been told could
reveal just that using blood. We went back and forth with an answer from
a chemist (Kate) that used to work at my specialist vet's and Dr. Susan, the
vet who has been kind enough to answer some of our questions. I was
excited about the possibility, but apparently there is some doubt, at least
based on the variable testing/interpretation methods whether it would be
accurate. Since I already mix, I decided that I would treat all those
suspected of having FeLV as if they do. I've pasted Kate's last response
regarding testing because she included lots of good links for further research.
Nina

From Kate:



Yes, Dr. Susan is correct
that ELISA tests for the antigen of the FeLV virus. If a patient is
positive for a virus, say HIV, then the patient's serum contains antibodies to
HIV and it will bind to the HIV antigens. For simplicity I left this
out. I would like you to see how ELISA works. If you go to www.biology.arizona.edu/immunology/activities/elisa/technique.html,
there is an animation of how ELISA works that is simple to understand.
Dr. Susan also says that she recommends IFA. If you look on the internet
several studies also agree with her, and it appears to be also a good
test. However, she does not support PCR. As I said before, lab
interpretation of PCR may be difficult and purification of feline DNA from
viral DNA, may be difficult, but not impossible and certainly doable. PCR
detects the nucleic acids of the virus. More specific primers may be
needed for PCR of FeLV, but scientifically, if you have these primers and a
patient is positive, a positve PCR means positive infection. 











I've
attached a whole bunch of web sites for you to look at. Some are
scientific papers, some are FeLV web sites, and some will help you learn more
about the science of testing for FeLV. The best suggestion that I can give
is to learn the science behind these tests. Secondly, I have included web
sites that do not necessarily agree with each other. I can find articles
in Vet journals and in scientific journals that say that PCR is a really great
thing for testing FeLV and is much better than ELISA. I can also find
journals that say PCR doesn't really give that great of results, and to use IFA
if you get a negative test for ELISA. You have to understand that there
will always be debates in science and medicine. Noboby knows the whole
story on any virus, nor how to cure a virus. Weusescience and
experience to find out what works and how to make treatments better. Both
Dr. Susan and I come with our own opinions. As a vet, she will see what works
in her clinic. Other vets maycome to different conclusions.
As ascientist, I have mypersonal faith in testing such as
PCR. It's a great techniquethat allows us to take a small amount of
genetic material and amplify it; However, for each specific virus we need to
know the signature sequences of the virus, to make PCR more specific.
Basically, you are only getting opinions from both Dr. Susan and I.
Nobody knows how to cure a virus- any virus- from HIV to the common cold to
FeLV. Period.Animals doctors, human doctors, and scientists
haveone particularly irritating traitin common. This is
arrogance. We do know the answers tomany things, but what they
don't want the public to know is that, whatwe do know is actually so very
little in the scheme of things.For instance,the connation of brain
surgeon, conjures up someone who is really smart. Ask a
neurolgisthow memory is stored in the brain, and if he or she is honest,
you will get the answer of I don't know. In other words, even
the most basic question in neurologystill can't be answered. Never
forget, there is alot we don't know.











The
best thing I can let you know is to 1) keep asking questions, but more
importantly, start learning the science behind these questions. Do first
hand research, grab virology, immunology, and biochemistry textbooks from a
university bookstore (or you can buy them used on the internet). Look
uphow antibodies and antigens work. Look up PCR and how it
works. 2) Know that science and medicine are ever changing, and we learn
more everyday (including sometimes, that wecan be wrong). 3) We do not
haveall the answers, and in fact we actually only know very
little.4) Keep faith that as more is learned about the virus, better
treatments will come along, as well as better testing. 5) The more
doctors and scientists 

RE: Off Topic - Tipper

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

This might sound totally unusual 
but just to explore all the options where he could be - I rescued a cat who was
stuck in a sewer underground  thank god that the cat was vocal otherwise
you would not know that he was there  it ended up that the city had to
tear up the street for the cat as there was no obvious opening form the pipe he
was in  don know how he got in there  but now he lives
with me - 



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barbara Lowe
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005
4:35 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Off Topic - Tipper





the theory is cats usually don't go
very far-not more than a block or so. (theory, mind you). do you have
neighbors who might have had their garages, basement doors open at any time.
cats can sneak in very quickly. i had my garage door open for less than a
minute in dec. and my neighbor's idiot cat got in there. thank god she heard
him crying because I never use my garage--too full of crap i have to clear out
in spring for garage sale. On the outside of your fence, leave an old shirt of
yours that you've worn recently and not washed so your scent is strong on it.
i've read cats lose their sense of smell in the snow. good luck. i know how
stressful it must be for you. praying hard. have you posted any xeroxed
posters? sometimes kind hearted people take in what they believe are strays...





barbara







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org






Sent: Tuesday,
February 22, 2005 5:18 PM





Subject: Off Topic -
Tipper









Please
pray for the safe return of my Tip. He has been missing for four nights and I'm
so worried I can't think straight. He is two yrs old and he goes out some but
he doesn't leave the yard. My yard is completely fenced in and he weighs 20 lb.
so I thought he couldn't climb over. I have searched day and night every place
I think he could be. He is one of my group who is not felv+. I love him so
much. Please keep us in your prayers. Your good thoughts always helps. I don't
post very often, but I read all yours. I don't know what I would do without
you. Thanks, Sheila 

RE: Tip is Gone

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Dear Shiela, 

I am so very sorry, it literally breaks my
heart to hear what happened to Tip.
I cant stop crying  I so feel your pain very much  a
couple of years ago, I was looking for one of my feral cats that I had been
feeding for years, and she everyday would show up at the door step to wait for
me to feed her  one day, she did not show up, and the 2nd day
she did not show up, and I knew something was wrong then  I put flyers
everywhere, and one of my neighbors called me to tell me she had found her 
she was already dead for a couple of days  again, she was all wet from
the rain, too. The lady had put her in a trash bag and in her trash can. I asked her to give her back to me so
that I could bury her in my yard along with her friends and her little boy Henry  it
was devastating  roaming dogs killed her. That was the time when I was also
thinking about trapping her and keep her with me two days prior to the day she
started missing and I never had a chance to do so  



I am sorry, I did not make it about me 
but I just wanted to let you know that I know exactly how you feel  just
know that Tip is at a better place now, and he is even closer to you now in a
way  he is watching you, so dont be too sad, because it will make
him sad, too. and you will meet him again in another life
(I really believe that).



Hugs,



Hideyo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barb Moermond
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005
8:33 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone





I am so sorry. Our thoughts and tears are with
you.











HUGS

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:





I
couldn't sleep tonight so I got a flash light and look again in the wooded area
behind my house. I found my baby he has been dead for a couple days. His body
was wet from rain we had over the weekend. I don't know how he died but it
looks like maybe dogs or a car hit him. I am so overwhelmed with grief and
guilt how could I let this happen to him. He was a big gentle love bug. I don't
know if I'll ever get over this loss. I guess I have learned the hard way that
there is no safe place out side. We will bury him in the morning next to his
Mother. Thank you all for listening and for the prayers. Love, Sheila 





Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous







Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!
Mail - You care about security. So do we.

RE: Ginger update2

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Well, Ginger is definitely not eating as
much  I think she should be eating a bit more. And I began to worry. She liked liver shake I made for her and
she drank it and ate a bit more food.
I gave another shot of V-B complex (I dont have V-B 12) last
night. She ate a bit today again but she had a bad diarrhea last night 
again, I am not sure what to think of it either as she did not eat anything unusually.
She acts just fine  (thank god)  I made a
appointment for Friday morning  I hate to take her, but if she continues
not to eat, I should probably take her.


Has anyone experience this type of changes
in your kitties appetite?? 

Please continue to send Ginger a healing
vibes  she needs every one of she can get!!

Thank you!!

RE: Ginger update2

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Can you feel lymphoma by
petting?



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005
1:23 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Ginger update2





I have
seen it from lymphoma. But I think other things can cause it too. Including
IBD (irritable bowel disease).





Michelle

RE: Ginger update2

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Oh no.. now I am worried 
can one be really active and playful, but still develop lymphoma?? Is this something that I should get checked
out for Ginger separately? Or will it
show on the blood work?



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005
1:34 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Ginger update2







No, not
necessarily. Sometimes it forms in and around the tissues of
organs. It often can only be detected through an ultrasound.
Intestinal lymphoma can cause lack of appetite and also diarrhea.











But it
might not be lymphoma at all. A lot of FeLV+ cats have unexplained bouts
of anemia and anorexia.











Michelle











In a
message dated 2/23/05 3:30:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Can you feel lymphoma by
petting?

RE: off-topic/should I worry about kitty makinganoisewhenshebreathes?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message









Hummm  let me know what you find
out from your vet  I am very interested, too. Do you it has anything to do thyroid or
something?



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:47 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: off-topic/should I
worry about kitty makinganoisewhenshebreathes?





Thanks Hideyo---no,
Trixie is actually quite the trim little thing. She watches her figure (doesn't
care much for proprietary treats but loves plain yogurt!)...Kerry



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:35 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: off-topic/should I
worry about kitty making anoisewhenshebreathes?

I have a cat who snorts
too, and breath loud  with no other symptoms at all  I have taken
her to the vet and asked them about it  but they did not seem to be
concerned  is your cat on heavy side?
Mine is, and they though it might have something to do with it 
so I am trying to help her lose weight  



hideyo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005
10:31 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: off-topic/should I
worry about kitty making a noisewhenshebreathes?





No-her
behavior and appearance are fine. (She's negative.which helps.)



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005
11:11 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: off-topic/should I
worry about kitty making a noise whenshebreathes?



Are there no other symptoms?

MacKenzie, Kerry
N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



Thanks
Julie. Yes, will definitely be having Trixie checked out. It's the fact that
it's a new development that's bothering me. (She's always snored when asleep,
but until now not while she's awake.) Kerry



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Julie Johnson
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005
9:07 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: off-topic/should I
worry about kitty making a noise when shebreathes?



Hi Kerry,











I also have a few cats who are noisy! For some
it's because they're old, for one (Bleau) it's because he's a tub, and for the
others, it's 'just because'.











It's worth having checked though, just to rule out
asthma; Boo-Boo developed asthma and it came on quite suddenly.











Julie

















MacKenzie, Kerry N.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Hi everyone
I need some advice re breathing.
I realized my negative cat Trixie's breathing has become audible--it
sounds a bit like snoring (I don't know if cats snore as such?), but
she's often awake when I hear it.
I've made an apptmt for another check-up (she had her last physical in
November) but my vet, who I trust totally, can't see her till March 5.
Any ideas? Should I be sufficiently concerned to get her an earlier
apptmt with a different vet?
Thanks in advance, Kerry




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I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is
to protection by man from the cruelty of man.  

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged 
by the way its animals are treated.

Mohandas Gandhi (1869-1948)


Paws Come WITH Claws!!!

If you're thinking about de-clawing your cat, you need to re-think your
decision to acquire a pet. 

__
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 



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This email

RE: Loki Advice: fleas, throwing up

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I know what you mean, Steve. I wouldnt personally. My holistic vet strongly goes against using
it even with my non FeLV kitties, too. One
of my kitties had a very serious skin problem with some type of insects and she
had scabs everywhere  and he gave me this natural citrus shampoo 
and after washing her (and a couple of others), it cleared up right away 
if you are interested, I can ask my holistic vet again (and any other remedies
he may recommend)  shampooing a cat is also another challenge and stress
 you could even spot the diluted shampoo with gauze or something so that
you wont have to wash the kitty.



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Williams
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005
12:04 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Loki Advice: fleas,
throwing up





Cherie,











I'm kind of afraid to use
Advantage or Frontline with a kitten who has hadFeLV+ from birth.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but my recent loss of Leeloo, with the stress ofa
leg sprain causing onset, has got me trigger-shy.
Itishardfor me to impose the tiniest bit oftoxic
substance or stress onLoki. I think I will try some natural
supplements, diligent combing and cleaning. But... I want those fleas
gone now! I'm going to try to find boric acid to sprinkle on the carpets
also.











Has anyone used Advantage
or Frontline on kittens with FeLV from birth?











Steve





-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005
10:47 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Loki Advice: fleas,
throwing up



Steve,





My cats deal really well with Advantage, and it is
topical that goes behind the neck.





Cherie







Steve Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Kerry,











Yes, I know for sure it
is fleas. All the signs are there: I can see fleas sometimes on him, I've
combed a few off of him, and can find lots of flea poop in his normal sleeping
spots.











Thanks,





Steve





-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On
Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005
7:08 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Loki Advice: fleas,
throwing up



Steve, sorry to ask
this--it may be a dumb Q--but do you know for sure that fleas are the source
ofLoki's scratching? 





After Levi began
scratchingfrequentlyI put a humidifier in the room on the advice of
group members.





When the vet came, she
examined him and said she was not concerned about the scratching.
The humidifier did seem to reduce the incidence of scratching among the cats in
general.





I hope hairballs were
also the source of the throwing up. Kerry



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Williams
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005
10:15 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Loki Advice: fleas,
throwing up



Recently, Loki has gotten fleas. He
scratches a lot, but it doesn't seem overwhelming. I don't see any in the
house, but will start a good cleaning/vacuuming regiment. I bought a flee
comb, but will of course do more. Does anyone have advice on best course of
action for a 9 month old FeLV+ kitty? I will also go to the vet for any
prescribed treatment, but don't want to cause him a speck of stress
withtreatment. My vet is very good in this regard since he is
opposed to poisonous stuff.











For the past three days Loki has
been throwing up in the early evenings. He is eating normally otherwise
and this doesn't seem to faze him too much. Our feeding regiment for him
has not changed. His supplements are L-Lysine and Vitamin C, which he has
been give for many months. His throwing up seems to occur sometime after
he has his wet food with supplements in the early afternoon (4pm-ish).
Any advice or comments?











Even though he is fine
otherwise,this is causing mevery much anxiety.











Thanks for any advice.











Steve



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RE: Tip is Gone

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Looks great!  It's a kitty heaven!!  I have built something similar for
my babies but not as a big of area as you have for your babies!!  You
are giving me some new ideas!  Thank you!!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 8:27 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone

Here is the kitty play pen we had built for our kids, it is 21 by 22

feet and the top is covered in chicken wire.  It has two gates and they 
are pad locked so neighbor kids can't accidentally let anyone out.  They

LOVE it, although now that they can go out they appreciate 
air-conditioning and heat alot more.  We built a cat door in the kitchen

window this last year, instead of the cat door we had and all but Cody 
uses it (there are steps we built up to the kitchen window), Cody will 
use it to come in, but will drive me crazy to let him out, he just can't

put together it works the same way going out as it does coming in :))

It is attacted to the side of the house and is not in the ground, so it 
can move with us if we ever decide to move.  It is made up of 4 
chain-link panels that are attached to each other same as a fence would 
be, and is 8 feet high.

http://www.bemikitties.com/cgi-bin/photo/index.cgi?mode=viewalbum=/Kitt
y-Play-Pen

-- 
 Belinda
Happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties ...
http://www.bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candle Light Service
http://www.bemikitties.com/cls

HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting  web design)
http://HostDesign4U.com

---

BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

RE: Tip is Gone - Kathy

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I
know what you mean, some of my feral hisses and spits at me whenever I am near
them  but I still love them as much if you know what I mean 
There is this poem some one of the FIP list sent to the other list member a
long time ago when they lost their love one  and I found it very
soothing and am trying to find it so that I can share with this list member -



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005
10:21 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone - Kathy



Thanks Kathy, Seeing them all again
will be wonderful. Like you I have had pets of all kinds and I loved them all
(even some that were not so lovable.)It makes it easier knowing that they will
be there for me when it is my turn to go.

Love, Sheila






image001.jpg

RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Every feral cat story I hear, I just cant
stop crying  there is a book called Livings in shadows - its
a book about how to take care of feral cats  the title itself makes me
cry because it represents so much of how their life is  I had a feral who
used to hisses and growls as she ate  I just love my ferals 



I am sure that your big puffy head boy is
in heaven -



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:10
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy





We had a feral for about 3 years that we fed...a
burmese mix, all black, big
puffy head with a small body and stubby legs. Everytime he saw us he'd
hissso of course we named him Hisspuff. After about a year we could
pet him while he ate, but he'd still hiss when he first saw us. We tried
to get him to come into the house...but he never would, just prefered the straw
we put out for him in the bushes out front. He got sick, nose stuffed up
and eyes running - but wouldn't ever let us catch him. He showed up at
the back of the house one day...just to say goodbye...again we tried to catch
him, but he wouldn't have it and went off to die...but he'll ALWAYS be one of
my favorites!

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



I know what you mean, some of my feral hisses and spits at me
whenever I am near them  but I still love them as much if you know what
I mean  There is this poem some one of the FIP list sent to the other
list member a long time ago when they lost their love one  and I found
it very soothing and am trying to find it so that I can share with this list
member -



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005
10:21 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone - Kathy



Thanks Kathy, Seeing them all again
will be wonderful. Like you I have had pets of all kinds and I loved them all
(even some that were not so lovable.)It makes it easier knowing that they will
be there for me when it is my turn to go.

Love, Sheila









Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo!
Mail SpamGuard.

RE: Off topic - rescuing feral

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I know  I am in the process of
trying to trap Gingers mom  I have been feeding her and other
ferals who are left there behind my companys back (I am not allowed to
feed them any more, but I am anyway, if they find out, I could be fired). Recently,
I have seen many vicious dogs roaming around (pit bull, rotwiler, and chows,,) in the parking lot where I feed Gingers mom and
other kitties. I am so worried about them as these dogs pack and hunt and they
are very dangerous  I dont even know if Gingers mom and
others are safe  they can hardly come eat the food anymore 
besides I think someone at work must have found the food plates that I put out
as there were gone today. I am
freaking out because I could be fired - I dont know what to do! I just want to get them out of there 
I should have done so long time ago!



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:48
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy





Oh absolutely...uhm...either that or he has already
reincarnated into an orange tabby with a big head that as recently shown up at
my parent's house. Same body shape...just different color! While
this one doesn't hiss, he won't allow himself to be touched or caught yet
either, yet he lays in Hisspuff's spot. My mom's freakin' out...she's
afraid she'll become a crazy cat lady! She can't help but feed them...but
she doesn't even really like cats and certainly doesn't want to have to think
about it outside in the cold and wet...esp. when it refuses to come in, but
lays infront of the laundry room window shivering. Everytime we rent a
trap to catch himhe's a no show. So she is just going to keep feeding
him in the hopes that he'll come around like the other two, Tom  Jerry,
that she refuses to admit are hers, but they have trained Mom  Dad to let
them in the house at willthey even have their own beds downstairsFor
that matter, Mom's dog used to HATE cats...Jerry took two and a half years, but
won her over too!











What idiot human ever coined the phrase dumb
animals?

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Every feral cat story I
hear, I just cant stop crying  there is a book called
Livings in shadows -
its a book about how to take care of feral cats  the title itself
makes me cry because it represents so much of how their life is  I had a
feral who used to hisses and growls as she ate  I just love my ferals




I am sure that your big
puffy head boy is in heaven -



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:10
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy





We had a feral for about 3 years that we fed...a
burmese mix, all black, big
puffy head with a small body and stubby legs. Everytime he saw us he'd
hissso of course we named him Hisspuff. After about a year we could
pet him while he ate, but he'd still hiss when he first saw us. We tried
to get him to come into the house...but he never would, just prefered the straw
we put out for him in the bushes out front. He got sick, nose stuffed up
and eyes running - but wouldn't ever let us catch him. He showed up at
the back of the house one day...just to say goodbye...again we tried to catch
him, but he wouldn't have it and went off to die...but he'll ALWAYS be one of
my favorites!

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



I know what you mean, some of my feral hisses and spits at me
whenever I am near them  but I still love them as much if you know what
I mean  There is this poem some one of the FIP list sent to the other
list member a long time ago when they lost their love one  and I found
it very soothing and am trying to find it so that I can share with this list
member -



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005
10:21 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone - Kathy



Thanks Kathy, Seeing them all again
will be wonderful. Like you I have had pets of all kinds and I loved them all
(even some that were not so lovable.)It makes it easier knowing that they will
be there for me when it is my turn to go.

Love, Sheila













Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo!
Mail SpamGuard.



__
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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RE: Off topic - rescuing feral

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I know the problem is that I hardly see them, and I can't be there all
the time as the gate closes at night - and I can't just set a trap and
leave it over night because dogs will be there, too.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:00 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Off topic - rescuing feral

Is there a group that can help you there?  Not sure where you're 
located.  But someone needs to trap them and get them out of there... 
Sounds like a dog problem too!

Gloria

I know - I am in the process of trying to trap Ginger's mom - I have 
been feeding her and other ferals who are left there behind my 
company's back (I am not allowed to feed them any more, but I am 
anyway, if they find out, I could be fired). Recently, I have seen 
many vicious dogs roaming around (pit bull, rotwiler, and chows,,) in 
the parking lot where I feed Ginger's mom and other kitties.  I am so 
worried about them as these dogs pack and hunt and they are very 
dangerous - I don't even know if Ginger's mom and others are safe - 
they can hardly come eat the food anymore - besides I think someone 
at work must have found the food plates that I put out as there were 
gone today.  I am freaking out because I could be fired -  I don't 
know what to do!  I just want to get them out of there - I should 
have done so long time ago!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara 
stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:48 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy

Oh absolutely...uhm...either that or he has already reincarnated into 
an orange tabby with a big head that as recently shown up at my 
parent's house.  Same body shape...just different color!  While this 
one doesn't hiss, he won't allow himself to be touched or caught yet 
either, yet he lays in Hisspuff's spot.  My mom's freakin' 
out...she's afraid she'll become a crazy cat lady!  She can't help 
but feed them...but she doesn't even really like cats and certainly 
doesn't want to have to think about it outside in the cold and 
wet...esp. when it refuses to come in, but lays infront of the 
laundry room window shivering.  Everytime we rent a trap to catch 
himhe's a no show.  So she is just going to keep feeding him in 
the hopes that he'll come around like the other two, Tom  Jerry, 
that she refuses to admit are hers, but they have trained Mom  Dad 
to let them in the house at willthey even have their own beds 
downstairsFor that matter, Mom's dog used to HATE cats...Jerry 
took two and a half years, but won her over too!

What idiot human ever coined the phrase dumb animals?

Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Every feral cat story I hear, I just can't stop crying - there is a 
book called Livings in shadows  - it's a book about how to take 
care of feral cats - the title itself makes me cry because it 
represents so much of how their life is - I had a feral who used to 
hisses and growls as she ate - I just love my ferals -

I am sure that your big puffy head boy is in heaven -

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara 
stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:10 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy

We had a feral for about 3 years that we fed...a burmese mix, all 
black, big puffy head with a small body and stubby legs.  Everytime 
he saw us he'd hissso of course we named him Hisspuff.  After 
about a year we could pet him while he ate, but he'd still hiss when 
he first saw us.  We tried to get him to come into the house...but he 
never would, just prefered the straw we put out for him in the bushes 
out front.  He got sick, nose stuffed up and eyes running - but 
wouldn't ever let us catch him.  He showed up at the back of the 
house one day...just to say goodbye...again we tried to catch him, 
but he wouldn't have it and went off to die...but he'll ALWAYS be one 
of my favorites!

Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know what you mean, some of my feral hisses and spits at me 
whenever I am near them - but I still love them as much if you know 
what I mean - There is this poem some one of the FIP list sent to the 
other list member a long time ago when they lost their love one - and 
I found it very soothing and am trying to find it so that I can share 
with this list member -

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 10:21 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone - Kathy

Thanks Kathy, Seeing them all again will be wonderful. Like you I 
have had pets of all kinds and I loved them all (even some that were 
not so lovable.)It makes it easier knowing that they will be there 
for me when it is my turn to go.

Love, Sheila

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only

RE: Off topic - rescuing feral

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I am in NM - I do have a friend who is a board member of NM animal
friends - street cat companion group - and she is going to help me with
the situation, but I just don't know how much we can do, sneaking around
the company if you know what I mean.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:09 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Off topic - rescuing feral

You need an animal  organization involvedsounds like.  Who's in your
area?

Gloria

I know the problem is that I hardly see them, and I can't be there all
the time as the gate closes at night - and I can't just set a trap and
leave it over night because dogs will be there, too.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B.
Lane
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:00 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Off topic - rescuing feral

Is there a group that can help you there?  Not sure where you're
located.  But someone needs to trap them and get them out of there...
Sounds like a dog problem too!

Gloria

I know - I am in the process of trying to trap Ginger's mom - I have
been feeding her and other ferals who are left there behind my
company's back (I am not allowed to feed them any more, but I am
anyway, if they find out, I could be fired). Recently, I have seen
many vicious dogs roaming around (pit bull, rotwiler, and chows,,) in
the parking lot where I feed Ginger's mom and other kitties.  I am so
worried about them as these dogs pack and hunt and they are very
dangerous - I don't even know if Ginger's mom and others are safe -
they can hardly come eat the food anymore - besides I think someone
at work must have found the food plates that I put out as there were
gone today.  I am freaking out because I could be fired -  I don't
know what to do!  I just want to get them out of there - I should
have done so long time ago!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara
stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:48 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy

Oh absolutely...uhm...either that or he has already reincarnated into
an orange tabby with a big head that as recently shown up at my
parent's house.  Same body shape...just different color!  While this
one doesn't hiss, he won't allow himself to be touched or caught yet
either, yet he lays in Hisspuff's spot.  My mom's freakin'
out...she's afraid she'll become a crazy cat lady!  She can't help
but feed them...but she doesn't even really like cats and certainly
doesn't want to have to think about it outside in the cold and
wet...esp. when it refuses to come in, but lays infront of the
laundry room window shivering.  Everytime we rent a trap to catch
himhe's a no show.  So she is just going to keep feeding him in
the hopes that he'll come around like the other two, Tom  Jerry,
that she refuses to admit are hers, but they have trained Mom  Dad
to let them in the house at willthey even have their own beds
downstairsFor that matter, Mom's dog used to HATE cats...Jerry
took two and a half years, but won her over too!

What idiot human ever coined the phrase dumb animals?

Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Every feral cat story I hear, I just can't stop crying - there is a
book called Livings in shadows  - it's a book about how to take
care of feral cats - the title itself makes me cry because it
represents so much of how their life is - I had a feral who used to
hisses and growls as she ate - I just love my ferals -

I am sure that your big puffy head boy is in heaven -

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara
stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:10 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy

We had a feral for about 3 years that we fed...a burmese mix, all
black, big puffy head with a small body and stubby legs.  Everytime
he saw us he'd hissso of course we named him Hisspuff.  After
about a year we could pet him while he ate, but he'd still hiss when
he first saw us.  We tried to get him to come into the house...but he
never would, just prefered the straw we put out for him in the bushes
out front.  He got sick, nose stuffed up and eyes running - but
wouldn't ever let us catch him.  He showed up at the back of the
house one day...just to say goodbye...again we tried to catch him,
but he wouldn't have it and went off to die...but he'll ALWAYS be one
of my favorites!

Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know what you mean, some of my feral hisses and spits at me
whenever I am near them - but I still love them as much if you know
what I mean - There is this poem some one of the FIP list sent to the
other list member a long time ago when they lost their love one - and
I found it very soothing and am trying to find it so that I can share
with this list

RE: Feral cat book

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Nina, sorry, I have not shipped Surphur to
you yet, I have it in my hand and have not forgotten!!. How is Gypsy?

My little Shitsu dog, Oreo had a disc
injury and started losing control of hind legs, I was very worried because my other
dog, JoJo had a similar injury and he became paralyzed within 72 hours. Though thanks to the surgeon, he can walk
again now. Anyway, we had to watch
him very careful for the past week, and I noticed that the condition was
getting worse, so I took him to the emergency clinic this week, and the same surgeon
who operated on JoJo is operating on Oreo as we speak  Please pray that
the surgery and his recovery will go well for Oreo, Nina!



I hope you will enjoy the book.



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005
1:45 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Feral cat book



Thanks Hideyo, I just
ordered the book from Amazon. I love the ferals too!
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:



Every feral cat story I hear, I just cant stop crying
 there is a book called Livings in shadows -
its a book about how to take care of feral cats  the title itself
makes me cry because it represents so much of how their life is  I had a
feral who used to hisses and growls as she ate  I just love my ferals 



I am sure that your big
puffy head boy is in heaven -



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:10
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy





We had a feral for about
3 years that we fed...a burmese mix, all black, big puffy head with a small body and
stubby legs. Everytime he saw us he'd hissso of course we named him
Hisspuff. After about a year we could pet him while he ate, but he'd
still hiss when he first saw us. We tried to get him to come into the
house...but he never would, just prefered the straw we put out for him in the
bushes out front. He got sick, nose stuffed up and eyes running - but
wouldn't ever let us catch him. He showed up at the back of the house one
day...just to say goodbye...again we tried to catch him, but he wouldn't have
it and went off to die...but he'll ALWAYS be one of my favorites!

Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 





I know what you mean, some of my feral hisses and spits at me
whenever I am near them  but I still love them as much if you know what
I mean  There is this poem some one of the FIP list sent to the other
list member a long time ago when they lost their love one  and I found it
very soothing and am trying to find it so that I can share with this list
member -



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005
10:21 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone - Kathy



Thanks Kathy,
Seeing them all again will be wonderful. Like you I have had pets of all kinds
and I loved them all (even some that were not so lovable.)It makes it easier
knowing that they will be there for me when it is my turn to go.

Love, Sheila















Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo!
Mail SpamGuard.

RE: Off topic - rescuing feral

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Sally.

Well, it's probably sort of my fault - if I did everything carefully,
this wouldn't be an issue - 

They did not want me to feed cats anymore because they were peeing on
the furniture that we NO LONGER NEEDED and therefore BEING Abandoned in
the trailers in the parking lot.  When I asked the management if I could
trap them and remove them, they did not want me to go near them for
potential of me or anyone getting any disease (???) from dead cats, as
some of the feral were trapped in trailers for a long time, and they
died there, which still upset me to think about (Ginger's mom was
trapped there recently for three days - and I did not know about it but
she got out ok)-

My friend Kathy, offered to talk to the management before, I just did
not want to create any additional attentions around cats here because it
could go either way, if you know what I mean.  If I can quietly trap the
mama, it will be good, though there are two more out there possible.  I
had had trapped a total of 8 cats from here and never released them
back.

Wish me luck with my situation, Sally.  I just hope that all the kitties
left here are ok.


Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 1:43 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Off topic - rescuing feral

Dear Hideyo:

You really have yourself a can of worms there, don't you?  I have a
friend 
here in San Jose who is faced with a similar problem of feral cats
proliferating 
around the company she works for...fortunately a pack of marauding dogs
is 
not also part of the problem.

Because of your fear of losing your job, which is very real, you have to
be 
very careful.  If you know of anyone in your area with an animal welfare
group 
who could speak to the management on behalf of the cats so you don't
have to 
be directly involved, it might help.  They need to be enlightened about
feral 
cats and how to deal with them humanely.  I will redouble my efforts to
get a 
copy of the info from the SF Humane Society...they may even  have a web
site.  
They have info to support the fact that just trapping and removing the 
existing cats is not going to solve the problem in the long run...as
soon as those 
cats are removed, others will move into the territory and the best
solution is 
for an aggressive TNR program to spay/neuter the cats so they won't
continue to 
reproduce and the population will then stabilize and gradually reduce
though 
attrition.  Cats will control any rodent populations in the area as
well.  
Perhaps if they will listen and learn and understand there is a
reasonable 
solution, they will be less antagonistic.  One can only hope.  But, if
the company 
won't listen to such an approach, then perhaps this person can at least
get 
permission to com in to trap and remove the cats, humanely.  Is there
some other, 
safer, area these cats could be released after they are S/N??

The dogs are far more of a problem than the cats.  And this needs to be 
pointed out to the company's management, as well.  Marauding dogs are
much more of 
a danger to humans (to say nothing of the poor cats) and unless there is
a dog 
rescue group willing to get involved, you will probably have to contact 
Animal Control.  It will be hard for you to realistically trap the cats
with dogs 
running around loose to complicate things.

I do hope you can enlist the support and assistance of others in your
area to 
address the situation.  See if you can find the e-addresses for other
rescue 
groups (sometimes Animal Control will have a referral list) in your area
and 
contact them and perhaps you will find others there with sympathetic
hearts and 
a sense of responsibility who will help, so you don't have to jeopardize
your 
livlihood to help these unfortunate cats.

By any chance are there any celebrities or people in the news media in
your 
area who are animal lovers and might lend their clout to your cause??
In S. 
Calif. there is an animal welfare group called Actors and Others for
Animals...I 
don't know if they might be able to help you in any way or not.  I had
their 
phone no. at one time...will see if I can find it.  You might be able to
get 
it (or numbers of other rescue groups in New Mexico) by doing a coputer
search.

Bless you for caring so much, Hideyo.  I wish I were close enough to be
of 
some real help.  Feral cats may never have the benefit of a loving home
and 
human copanionship and protection, but their lives deserve consideration
and they 
should not be treated like unwanted trash.  They didn't get to be where
they 
are on their own...ultimately it was irresponsible humans who created
their 
plight.  I do hope you will be able to find others who are able to help
you 
resolve this unfortunate situation without losing your job.

Sally in San Jose 

RE: Feral cat book

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message









Thank you, Kerry! I just used to love when he runs  he actually
hops like a little rabbit and looks so cute!



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Wednesday, March
 02, 2005 2:11 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Feral cat book





Sending healing vibes for
Oreo, Hideyo.I hope the little soul is soon running around again. (It must
be a comfort that he has the same surgeon as JoJo.) Love  hugs, Kerry



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Wednesday, March
 02, 2005 2:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Feral cat book

Nina, sorry, I have not
shipped Surphur to you yet, I have it in my hand and have not forgotten!!. How is Gypsy?

My little Shitsu dog, Oreo
had a disc injury and started losing control of hind legs, I was very worried
because my other dog, JoJo had a similar injury and he became paralyzed within
72 hours. Though thanks to the surgeon,
he can walk again now. Anyway, we had to
watch him very careful for the past week, and I noticed that the condition was
getting worse, so I took him to the emergency clinic this week, and the same
surgeon who operated on JoJo is operating on Oreo as we speak  Please
pray that the surgery and his recovery will go well for Oreo, Nina!



I hope you will enjoy the
book.



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Wednesday, March
 02, 2005 1:45 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Feral cat book



Thanks Hideyo, I just
ordered the book from Amazon. I love the ferals too!
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:



Every feral cat story I hear, I just cant stop crying
 there is a book called Livings in shadows -
its a book about how to take care of feral cats  the title itself
makes me cry because it represents so much of how their life is  I had a
feral who used to hisses and growls as she ate  I just love my ferals 



I am
sure that your big puffy head boy is in heaven -



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:10 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Tip is Gone-Kathy





We had a feral for about
3 years that we fed...a burmese mix, all black, big puffy head with a small body and
stubby legs. Everytime he saw us he'd hissso of course we named him
Hisspuff. After about a year we could pet him while he ate, but he'd
still hiss when he first saw us. We tried to get him to come into the
house...but he never would, just prefered the straw we put out for him in the
bushes out front. He got sick, nose stuffed up and eyes running - but
wouldn't ever let us catch him. He showed up at the back of the house one
day...just to say goodbye...again we tried to catch him, but he wouldn't have
it and went off to die...but he'll ALWAYS be one of my favorites!

Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



I know what you mean, some of my feral hisses
and spits at me whenever I am near them  but I still love them as much
if you know what I mean  There is this poem some one of the FIP list
sent to the other list member a long time ago when they lost their love one
 and I found it very soothing and am trying to find it so that I can
share with this list member -



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 10:21 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone - Kathy



Thanks Kathy,
Seeing them all again will be wonderful. Like you I have had pets of all kinds
and I loved them all (even some that were not so lovable.)It makes it easier
knowing that they will be there for me when it is my turn to go.

Love, Sheila



















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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo!
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RE: Michelle, How's Lucy?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message









I am sorry to budge in, but I was
wondering about Lucys condition regarding blood in urine? Does she have
crystals in urine? What is her urine ph
level? If its
too alkali which has been for one of my FIV positive cat, Papa. I have something I finally found which is
working for Papa. He used to have
incidents of he had to pee all the time, and blood will come out instead of
urine every 2 to 3 weeks or so, and
antibiotics do not work, but with L-methonian (?  I cant spell) 
he is problem free now!!



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005
8:14 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Michelle, How's Lucy?





Michelle,sending
lots of positive vibes for Lucy, and hoping things continue to look better for
her. Kerry







Thanks for asking, Nina. I have not gotten her re-xrayed yet
to see if it has shrunk. She is supposed to be xrayed this week but I have not
taken her in yet and may wait until Monday. She still urinates frequently and
has blood in her urine, but it does seem to me to be less blood the last few
days, but I am not sure and do not want to jinx her! I'll post when I
know more.





Michelle











In a
message dated 3/2/05 4:41:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:





Michelle,
How is Lucy doing? My dad has had some health problems this last week 
(he's going to be okay), and it's taken me away from the list. I take 
it she doesn't need surgery?

Nina











This
email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message
contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate,
distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: Michelle, How's Lucy?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you for correcting it, Belinda (I am Japanese, and don't know how
to spell things correctly sometime).

I think you should definitely try once it's confirmed that she needs
acidifier - because I tried Vitamin C, all sorts of different herbs,
cranberry juice, and etc. Nothing really worked completely for a long
time consistently until I used L methionine (I use L instead of DL since
I can't get DL - but I know DL is better than L)

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:31 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Michelle, How's Lucy?

I think that is suppose to be DL methionine, my Skeeter was on 
this for years when he was diagnosed with cyrstals, he also had no 
problem after he started it.

-- 
 Belinda
Happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties ...
http://www.bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candle Light Service
http://www.bemikitties.com/cls

HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting  web design)
http://HostDesign4U.com

---

BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

RE: OT: please pray for Oreo

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Our little Shitsu dog is coming home today from the disc surgery - they
wanted to keep him at the hospital over the weekend because he does not
have the bladder control right now.  But I begged them to release him
today as originally scheduled,  as he was so depressed and scared there
and he wouldn't eat there (he did eat steak when we visited him there
last night).  We will just have to be able to express his bladder on our
own, which we had to do with the other dog, JoJo when he was paralyzed.
The surgeon did tell me that it's common to lose the bladder control for
5 to 14 days from the trauma from the surgery.  But he did have the
control prior to the surgery, and I am really hoping that this is just a
temporary thing - please pray for Oreo that he can walk again, and his
bladder control will come back very soon!!

Thank you!!

Hideyo

RE: OT: please pray for Oreo

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Nina.  The one comforting factor is that, the surgeon (who
did surgery on Oreo and JoJo) was very confident about his full recovery
(he said something like 79%), the prognosis is good, whereas it as not
so for JoJo, he had a pretty good chance that he might be paralyzed for
the rest of his life (the prognosis was fair) - but he did indeed
recover and can walk again) -  but regardless, you are right, this is
not the worst thing could happened.  The next to Oreo, there was a
really sweet kitty whose legs got amputated - he went home the next day
- but again there are always wheel chair, right?

Nina, I meant to talk to you about the trap - even if you are not
trapping them right now, please take the trap to the yard where they eat
and start feeding in the trap without setting it.  You can keep the flap
door stay open using a big pot or put a stick or something like that and
make sure that it's open sturdy.  So, by the time you are ready to trap,
they are already used to be eating in the trap - and more likely to get
every one in there.  Since the trap is pretty big, sometime cats get
afraid to go in there until they feel that they are safe.  Does it make
sense?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 10:10 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: please pray for Oreo

Hideyo,
I'm sure that Oreo will be much happier at home under your care.  Thank 
goodness your vet didn't argue with you!  I am certain that bringing him

home is the right decision, no one will be more diligent attending to 
his needs than you.  I'll be thinking of you guys and sending lots of 
healing energy and prayers for a speedy recovery.  Even in the worse 
case scenario, I'm sure you're aware of doggie wheel chairs.  I've known

dogs that have had to use them and their quality of life was barely  
diminished.  I saw a program once about a woman with two therapy 
assistance dogs in wheel chairs.  She brought them to children's 
hospitals and the kids gained strength witnessing how happy and 
unconcerned the dogs were about their disabilities.
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

Our little Shitsu dog is coming home today from the disc surgery - they
wanted to keep him at the hospital over the weekend because he does not
have the bladder control right now.  But I begged them to release him
today as originally scheduled,  as he was so depressed and scared there
and he wouldn't eat there (he did eat steak when we visited him there
last night).  We will just have to be able to express his bladder on
our
own, which we had to do with the other dog, JoJo when he was paralyzed.
The surgeon did tell me that it's common to lose the bladder control
for
5 to 14 days from the trauma from the surgery.  But he did have the
control prior to the surgery, and I am really hoping that this is just
a
temporary thing - please pray for Oreo that he can walk again, and his
bladder control will come back very soon!!

Thank you!!

Hideyo



  

RE: OT: please pray for Oreo

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Joan and everyone else who is
praying for Oreo  I will tell that hed better get better soon
with all the positive thoughts!! You
guys are the best!!



Thank you!



Hideyo  Oreo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joan Doljan
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 9:51
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT: please pray for
Oreo





Hideyo,











I am sure with all your love, understanding and
patience Oreo will do just fine.











Joan

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Our little Shitsu dog is coming home today from the disc surgery - they
wanted to keep him at the hospital over the weekend because he does not
have the bladder control right now. But I begged them to release him
today as originally scheduled, as he was so depressed and scared there
and he wouldn't eat there (he did eat steak when we visited him there
last night). We will just have to be able to express his bladder on our
own, which we had to do with the other dog, JoJo when he was paralyzed.
The surgeon did tell me that it's common to lose the bladder control for
5 to 14 days from the trauma from the surgery. But he did have the
control prior to the surgery, and I am really hoping that this is just a
temporary thing - please pray for Oreo that he can walk again, and his
bladder control will come back very soon!!

Thank you!!

Hideyo

RE: Thank you fm Del and Angel Effie

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Del  you must know by I now  I cry a lot  and I
am crying again reading your email because I feel so much of what you feel and
please know that you are not alone. 

Like Nina, after Suzi died, I couldnt
let go any of stuff with Suzi touched  I put a huge padded rug under
than bed so that all my cats (20 plus in this particular house) can sleep comfortably
and after Suzi died, I did not want to vacuum or wash it because I knew Suzis
fur is on it  I left it there for about 6 month  finally, I
removed the rug and did not want to wash it, and am keeping it in a closet
separately. Also, the carrier that Suzi
stopped breathing, I am leaving it as the way it is with towel in it 
and the shirt I was wearing when I held Suzi after she died, her urine was all
over the shirt, I couldnt wash it, and I am keeping it in a plastic
bag. It may sound all crazy to a
lot of people, but I wanted to and still want to keep every piece of Suzis
memory. Before I cremated her, I
cut her fur and keep it in a box and go back and feel it sometimes  it will
be almost year, but I still miss her so terribly, and tears will come out
immediately as soon as I think of her, and I dont know the way to stop
it, so Del, my thought is with you, and Effie  maybe Suzi and Effie are
together in heaven, saying, silly mom, we are right here watching you,
so dont miss us too much  we are right here



Many hugs,



Hideyo



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 12:11
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Thank you fm Del and
Angel Effie



Oh Del,
We know how you feel. I held off vacuuming for as long as I could after
losing Vixen. I complained about her shedding Siberian Husky fur all over
the house while she was with me, but after I lost her, I just couldn't bring
myself to clean it up, knowing it would be for the last time. I'm so
sorry for your grief, it just never gets easier. I try to prepare myself
for the inevitable, sometimes I even feel some acceptance of the
situation. It only lasts for 10 minutes, or so, then I find myself
pleading for my angels not to be taken from me. Something that helps me
walk past those familiar places where my babies used to be, is imagining them
still there. I speak to them and tell them how much I love them, how much
I appreciate having known them and what a privilege it was to care for
them. I tell them about what's going on in the household, sometimes I ask
for help in getting through to somebody whose being particularly naughty.
I call on Vixen and another lost beloved GSD, Contessa, when I have a lesson
with a dog that I'm concerned about reaching (I'm a dog trainer), and ask them
to be with me in spirit to help communicate. After my Tess died, I felt
and saw her out of the corner of my eye many times. There was one time in
particular, I was sitting at the computer writing an homage to her and her
wonderful spirit. I could have sworn she was right at my feet where she
always used to lay. I almost reached down to pet her. Effie is
still with you, she loves you and she's watching over you. 

Much love,
Nina

Del Daniels wrote:





Thank you to
everyone who responded with sympathies to my huge loss of Effie. She was
such a light in our lives and we miss her terribly. The real
Effie gradually faded away and she became a more sedentary waif with less fur
and less weight. At times her eyes were bright and interested in playing
but the body didn't allow response. Lack of energy and increasing
discomfort took her away, little by little. Gosh, how I love her and miss
her. 





In January
04intuition was thatshe was in her last year with us and I wanted
to soak up as much of her as possible and give hereven more love and
attention and I moved in her bedroom with her. I was already in with her
a lot, sitting in her sunroom orwatching tv, any projects that could be
done there. That bathroom is mine andshe inspected my
shower andchecked the drain for possible thingies ... don't know if she
ever found any but it was one of her daily rituals. There is a screen
door on her bedroominstead of a hard paneled door and we looked in at her
and talked to her every passing by. My heart breaks again and again as I
look in and she is not there. I have been cleaning in her sunroom and
bedroom (her apartment :) and her fluffy fur is stillflying around;
remembering all her favorite games and resting places. And crying and
crying. I am going to buy new bedspreads and kind of change the look of
it, the others need replacing anyway. The toilet seat cover where she
loved to pull on the loops and made very long loops will have to stay for a
while. She loved pulling things apart with her teeth. She
decarpeted her bedroom and we put in tile! A roll of paper towel makes
great confetti. Hubby had to put a toilet tissue holder UP HIGH - betcha
Effie wasn't the only one who liked to unroll that stuff and make more confetti
... you all have a 

RE: Feral Issues

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thanks, Julie. I hear you loud and
clear. I have a friend who feeds a
few different colonies here, and one of the colonies she is having a real problem
with the neighbor. This neighbor
threatens her safety of cats if she continues to feed them, and throws the food
away every time she put the food.
She tries to put all different areas, and put it out between 2 am and 6
am, thats when she found that the neighbor is not watching her - She rarely sees the cats anymore maybe because
of the time of the day, maybe they are afraid of the neighbor  anyway,
only if I win millions of dollars, I would gather all the feral cats nation
wide and hire emphatic vets full time and take care of them for the rest of
their lives -.



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Julie Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005
7:24 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Feral Issues





Hi Everyone,











Hideyo, I'm sorry that you have to deal with the
stress of trying to help these cats and keep them safe from the dogs, all the
while worrying that it could cost your job.











I am working on trapping and relocating a feral colony
because there are dangers to the cats from employees on campus; threats have
been made about 'getting rid' of the cats. One of the people I'm working
with is a police officer (one of the geniuses who has threatened the cats did
so in front of her and she told him if anything happened to them she'd come
looking for him first; now, really, just how stupid do you have to be to say
somehting like that in front of a cop? We're really dealing with Mensa
members here). If we go to Administration we're afraid that they'll have them
trapped and killed.











It's so frustrating; we have people who are afraid now
to go there and trap because of harrassment, and we can't all be there all the
time. Plus, most are living underground where there is a heat source so
they are not predictable in their movements; it's so cold and snowy here that
their schedule is very irregular and we can't leave traps unattended in this
freezing weather. Arggg!











I really sympathize with what you're going through and
I wish you the best.











Julie





I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is
to protection by man from the cruelty of man.  

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged 
by the way its animals are treated.

Mohandas Gandhi (1869-1948)


Paws Come WITH Claws!!!

If you're thinking about de-clawing your cat, you need to re-think your
decision to acquire a pet.







Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100
Moments of the Web 

RE: I'm new and green.I've rescued and am caring for Deirdre (FELV+)

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Kathleen, I am so glad that she found you 
I hope that she will be able to stay with you for the rest of her life. I do have one feLV positive cat, Ginger
who lives separately from the rest of my cats  I feel so badly sometimes
because she is so alone (she was a feral, too, but now she loves me!!). I know
that many of the people on the list mix their cats (with positives and
negatives), but I cant do so for Ginger for a couple of reasons. I have 25 plus cats in the same house,
and most of them are corona virus positives, because of Gingers
condition, I cant risk Ginger to get any virus from others, and also, I dont
vaccinate my cats so I will be also concerned about them getting FeLV if I mix
them  but I am going to keep Ginger for the rest of my life no matter
what  I just love her 

So, regardless what you decide to do, I
hope you will always be her mom 



Hideyo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:28
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I'm new and
green.I've rescued and am caring for Deirdre (FELV+)





She sounds wonderful and wonderfully happy in your
home, I do not however think it is nessary to keep them seperated, I have a
positive and 6 negatives that live very happily together...ok not so happy ALL
the time but alot of the time they do. 





Welcome, we will help any way we can.





Cherie







Kathy Gittel
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





I'd be grateful for any and all suggestions you have
for diet,
vitamins, and care for Deirdre. I fed her outside and created a
shelter for her in my shed for 1 year when she first appeared under my
evergreen tree eating birdseed. She was about 6 months old then. I
trapped her this January 1st and had her spayed, de-flead, de-wormed
and got her all her shots. She was feral. During the last 3 weeks, she 
finally began
to get friendly and is now a total mush melon. I love her. She has
taken up residence in my living room, because I must isolate her from
my other 6 cats to keep them free of FELV.

She has 2 windows, lots of toys, a couch, a special bed and she eats
Fancy Feast wet food and Adult Nutro dried food. I spend at least a 
third of my time home with her.
She's extremely spunky, loving and playful. I'd like
to keep her that way for as long as possible. I'd appreciate any and
all suggestions you might have for me.

Thank You
Kathleen Gittel

RE: oreo

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you so much for asking. 

Oreo is trying to stand up and walk 
right now, he falls after a step or two, but he CAN stand up for a few seconds
on all four legs, which is very encouraging. We try to massage his leg, but it must
hurt him, because he tries to bite us when we try to touch his legs (but his
teeth are so small  much smaller than any of the kittens, so it wont
hurt at all)  

He still likes eating steak  my
holistic doc is going to do acupuncture on him tomorrow  I hope he can
walk, and hop again soon.



But I am very overwhelmed by the fact that
you asked me about Oreo  (which is most of you do on the list) 



Thank you,



Hideyo and Oreo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:12
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: oreo





Hi Hideyo,











How is Oreo doing?











t

RE: Please Help! Anakin is very sick

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Does that mean the transfusion will not
help either? Will immnogloublin not help??



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:14
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Please Help! Anakin
is very sick





Anita,











No ideas, but Anakin is in my thoughts and prayers.











tonya

catstevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









Anakin
is very sick.All he does is sleep.I checked his gums  tong are white.I am
taking him to the vet tomorrow,but they said his bone marrow is not producing
blood cells.They said there was not much they can do.If there is anything I can
try or if you have any suggestion please let me know.Thanks so much






Anita

RE: Please Help! Anakin is very sick

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I just dont know how effective it
is, but I am sending you the link just in case.



http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/treatmnt.html



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:21 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Please Help! Anakin
is very sick



Does that mean the
transfusion will not help either? Will immnogloublin not help??



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:14 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Please Help! Anakin
is very sick





Anita,











No ideas, but Anakin is in my thoughts and prayers.











tonya

catstevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









Anakin
is very sick.All he does is sleep.I checked his gums  tong are white.I am
taking him to the vet tomorrow,but they said his bone marrow is not producing
blood cells.They said there was not much they can do.If there is anything I can
try or if you have any suggestion please let me know.Thanks so much






Anita

RE: I'm SOOO scared - i need your support!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

You guys are so wonderful! - I and Uh-oh-oh feel better already!!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:48 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I'm SOOO scared - i need your support!

sending GLOW (prayers/white light/healing thoughts/love, whatever you
need!) for the little one. and for YOU.

but DO want to remind you that your adult cats are probably safe even
if this little one is FeLV--healthy adult cats usually throw the virus
off. it takes prolonger, persistent contact to pass the virus in the
first place--tho i wish someone would quantify what those two words
mean!

MC

RE: I'm SOOO scared - i need your support!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Dear Nina,

Nina, you are making me cry, Nina (here I go again)- 
Before I forget - I have surphur in my hand, then, now I can't find a
piece of paper that I wrote your address (please shoot me another email,
and I will get it out today- I am soo sorry).

It's very hard to have so many animals (du) - sometimes when I think
about all the pains that I will have to go through when they pass, I
just don't know how in the world I am supposed to get through it - one
is certainly hard enough, but 50 plus times - I must have been out of
mind - all I ask for every days is that they are healthy and they are
safe - but I know that's going to be something asking too much
eventually.  When I wake up, and start taking care of all the kitties
and dogs, and when I see all them doing their own regular routines,
that's when I feel like thank god - I can get through another day..

I hope your doggy, Zevon will get better asap.  Try acupuncture to see
if it works, too  - if one is not already paralyzed, sometimes, surgery
is not necessary, and many dogs will respond to acupuncture very well
(my vet said).  Unfortunately, I have two dogs with disc injuries -
different type - (out of 4 dogs), and they were already and (one was
closed to) paralyzed, and the surgery was necessary for both of them (I
really couldn't afford it, but I just had to create more debts, which is
a scary thing, too - and that's another entire story).   I am praying
for Zevon that he will heal with the current treatments.  In addition to
glucosamine, try V-C injections on fluid if the vet will recommend it, I
have so many positive things about the effect of V-C with any joint,
disc problems.

Regardless, I will pray every minute for you and Zevon.  Keep us posted!

Loves and Hugs to you and Zevon

Hideyo  all her little (and not so little) creatures



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:26 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I'm SOOO scared - i need your support!

Hideyo,
I hope you get good news at the vet today and Uh-oh-oh makes a speedy 
recovery.  I was just thinking about you this morning.  I've been trying

to get myself to calm down and stop focusing on all the scary 
possibilities that a large household full of illness brings.  I was 
thinking of you and how you do the same thing I do, (most of us probably

do), weaken ourselves with worry and panic, except you have so many more

animals to care for.  I was sending you calming energy this morning even

before I read your post on Uh-oh-oh.  You are so invested in each and 
every one and like me trying to be proactive and head off any problem 
before it gets bigger.  Please try to have faith, and trust that you 
will have the strength to deal with whatever happens.  Take a deep 
breath and know that the universe is supporting you.  Your ticket to 
Heaven has been paid for many times over, (you probably have so many 
frequent flyer miles accumulated that you could probably get some of us 
in as well!).  Many blessings to you and your family.
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

You guys are so wonderful! - I and Uh-oh-oh feel better already!!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:48 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I'm SOOO scared - i need your support!

sending GLOW (prayers/white light/healing thoughts/love, whatever you
need!) for the little one. and for YOU.

but DO want to remind you that your adult cats are probably safe even
if this little one is FeLV--healthy adult cats usually throw the virus
off. it takes prolonger, persistent contact to pass the virus in the
first place--tho i wish someone would quantify what those two words
mean!

MC




  

RE: I'm SOOO scared - i need your support!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Anita. Thats very comforting to hear,
especially right now. Do I understand correctly that the mom and her kitten
were positive first and then became negative later on, too?  or did the mom and her kitten remain positive, but the rest
of 10 kitties are tested negative?



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of catstevens
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:49
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: I'm SOOO scared - i
need your support!





Hideyo
I am praying for you.I don't think you need to worry about all the other
kitties.A few years back we were ina similarsituation.Wefound
out a mom her kitten were FeLV positive  they had been with all
theothers grooming,sleeping,eating everything.I was in a panic with help
I took all of them to the vet to get tested  other then the mom  her
kitten all 10 of them were negative.






Anita







-
Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org






Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005
11:23 AM





Subject: Re:
I'm SOOO scared - i need your support!











Hideyo, I am praying Uh-Oh (love his name!) is negative. If he is
positive, though, you should know that it does not mean lots of your other cats
are. Many cats do not get it, even without vaccination. I think it is easiest
for kittens and cats with compromised immune systems to get it. I of course
would be worried too, but I do not want you to think that if Uh-Oh is positive
it means you will have an epidemic of FeLV on your hands. 





Michelle

Uh-oh-oh update -pls help!!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I took Uh-oh-oh to the vet yesterday afternoon  and heres
what I found out  

The good news was he was negative on FeLV/FIV (thank god!) on
ELISA  When they did in house PCV test, his HCT was 44 which was very good. But I also had them sent out the blood
work for the total body function so that I can find out whats going on
with him  



And heres a sort of bad news, and I am not sure whats
going on  and I need your help to understand it.

His PCV (HCT) was much lower than the results from the
house, which is 32, but still within the normal range of 29 to 48  

But his RBC and HGB was extremely
low. RBC is 1.8 (normal range 5.92
to 9.93) and HGB was 5.2 (range 9.3 to 15.9). His WBC was normal. His MCH was high 28.2 (range 11-21) and
MCHC was high as well as 75 (range 30 to 38). There was a comment underneath says the
sample appears hemolyzed. Hematorit by manual method. Which I was not sure what
it meant. His blood parasites came
as negative. Back in January, we
also did PCR test of Hematot (sorry, cant spell, but its for FIA)
and came back as negative  what do you think going on? The fact that his RBC is now from 5.6 (in
January) to 1.8 (yesterday)  does this mean that his is not producing
blood  what does it mean??
How come his HCT is normal?
(what does HCT mean? Please help me understand whats
going on with Uh-oh-oh (I left a message with my vet to discuss this further,
also)



Hideyo  Uh-oh-oh

RE: Uh-oh-oh update -pls help!!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

By the way, his HCT was up from 25 (thats
when he got sick in January) to 32.



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:20 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Uh-oh-oh update -pls
help!!



I took Uh-oh-oh to the vet yesterday
afternoon  and heres what I found out  

The good news was he was negative on
FeLV/FIV (thank god!) on ELISA  When they did in house PCV test, his HCT
was 44 which was very good. But I
also had them sent out the blood work for the total body function so that I can
find out whats going on with him  



And heres a sort of bad news,
and I am not sure whats going on  and I need your help to
understand it.

His PCV (HCT) was much lower than
the results from the house, which is 32, but still within the normal range of
29 to 48  

But his RBC and HGB was extremely
low. RBC is 1.8 (normal range 5.92
to 9.93) and HGB was 5.2 (range 9.3 to 15.9). His WBC was normal. His MCH was high 28.2 (range 11-21) and
MCHC was high as well as 75 (range 30 to 38). There was a comment underneath says
the sample appears hemolyzed.
Hematorit by manual method. Which I was not sure what it
meant. His blood parasites came as
negative. Back in January, we also
did PCR test of Hematot (sorry, cant spell, but its for FIA) and
came back as negative  what do you think going on? The fact that his RBC is now from 5.6
(in January) to 1.8 (yesterday)  does this mean that his is not
producing blood  what does it mean?? How come his HCT is normal? (what does HCT mean? Please help me understand whats
going on with Uh-oh-oh (I left a message with my vet to discuss this further,
also)



Hideyo  Uh-oh-oh

RE: OT - We need your prayers

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Hi, Nina. How is Zevon?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:43 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT - We need your prayers

Hi Everyone,
Bruce and I just got back from the Vet.  Our 8 year old German Shepherd 
Dog, Zevon has been having trouble with his back legs for the last 
couple of months.  I guess I've been in denial and have been giving him 
stuff for arthritis etc.  The vet (not his regular ortho surgeon, he's 
out of town at conferences), suspects either a disc problem or something

called, Degenerative Myelopathy, (a degenerative neurologic disease), 
something GSDs are prone to apparently.  He had to stay at the vet 
overnight to treat him intravenously with steroids to see if whatever is

causing his paralysis lessens.  The ER vet said that there is a chance 
that the steroid therapy alone could help him regain the full use of his

legs, (let's hope so, tonight's therapy is costing over $1100 bucks and 
we haven't even started diagnostic work yet).  If this doesn't help him,

Bruce and I have a tough decision to make.  About 4 years ago, Zevon 
took a leap off a very high cliff in Santa Barbara trying to get to the 
surf below.  He sustained severe sprains on both his front legs and we 
were told by three vets to have him PTS before we found a surgeon that 
took on his case and saved his life.  Zevon is a highly energetic dog 
that never lets pain get in his way of having a good time.  The 
operations and months of recooperative down-stays were extremely hard on

him.  He is also vulnerable to reinjury of his front legs and now with 
his back legs in jeopardy, not to mention the fact that he's no longer a

young dog, make his prognosis for a quality life in a wheel chair very 
poor.  Please include him in your prayers.  Please pray that tonight's 
treatment brings us a miracle of at least temporary recovery.  He's so 
important to our household, we all love him so much, dogs, cats and 
humans alike.  He's such a sweet soul, I don't know how we'd get along 
without him.

Thanks for caring,
Nina

RE: Help with medicating/pilling/ feline interferon

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I would like to apply for it, but never found
out exactly what I needed to  I called the phone number on the archive,
but no one called me back.



Do you know what process I need to take?



Thank you!

Hideyo



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005
1:45 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Help with
medicating/pilling/ feline interferon







As for
pilling, I have a lot of luck with covering the pill in Nutrical before
pilling. It tastes good to them and lubricates it, and also makes it stick to
their mouth when you pill them so harder to spit out.











I was
also thinking of Nina's idea-- that those of us who can afford it try to keep
some VO on hand so when any of us are in an emergency someone will have it and
can send it (with reimbursement, of course). I had 3 boxes that were supposed
to be for Simon but arrived too late. I sent one to Kyle. I have 2 more I
am holding on to. I will see if my regular vet can apply for it for Lucy so I
can get more, in which case I could send more to people in emergency situations.
But I want to keep some on hand. I would suggest everyone who can afford it
start the process and at least get the application approved, even if not
ordering the medicine, so that it is only a 2 week wait instead of 2 month wait
if you or someone else needs it.











Michelle











In a
message dated 3/9/05 3:40:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:





Another
hint; after you get approval, have your vet send in another application. That
way you have an approved app waiting for you should you decide to order
more. Maybe we should all do this for each other on the list. That
way those in crisis will have feline interferon when they need it most.

RE: Uh-oh-oh update -pls help!!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I just talked to my vet
about Uh-oh-ohs low RBC  and she told me not to worry about it  his HCT is
good and she has seen lower RBC  and he is going to be fine  so I will just
keep an eye on him for now.



Thank you!



Hideyo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005
1:09 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Uh-oh-oh update -pls
help!!







I think
the rise in his HCT is very, very good.





Michelle





By the way, his HCT was up from 25 (thats
when he got sick in January) to 32.

RE: Ginger's vet visit

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message



Oh, it 
must have felt so sad to find out your negative kitty became positive - I worry 
about the same thing for my kitties from time to time - I have all sorts of 
positives - Corona, FIV and FeLV - so I worry about both directions for all of 
my 50 plus cats - as much as I am committed to do everything I can to prevent it 
- I try not to think about it too much, either, because it will drive me 
insane.

But I 
know what you mean by the possibility of our kitties catching something at a 
vet's office - I even took Gigner's own thermometer to the vet so that they 
won't have to use theirs, and I try not to make an appointment that is late in 
the day, but rather, earlier in the day so that they don't handle too many 
animals before they touch Ginger. I am very protective and you just never 
know!

She 
alsomight be in heat already, and I am so not ready her to go through the 
surgery (especially after what happened to my suzi), though I am aware of the 
stress factor being heat, too.



  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, 
  Kerry N.Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:32 PMTo: 
  felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: Ginger's vet 
  visit
  You 
  have certainly boosted Ginger's weight, Hideyo--that's 
  great.
  I 
  know the disappointment you feel about her remaining positive. I went thru the 
  same thing--not only did they still come up positive, but one that had tested 
  negative previously re-tested positive. 
  Have 
  you tried deli meats? Michelle recommended that when Levi was ill, and he 
  enjoyed it for a couple of days.
  I agree with you re the stress of FeLv cats going to 
  vet,with barking dogs etc. (never mind what they might pick up in terms 
  of illness) Are you able to consider having a housecall vet 
  instead?
  Sending lots of positive vibes and hugs for 
  Ginger.
  love, 
  Kerry
  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hideyo 
  YamamotoSent: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:17 PMTo: 
  felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Ginger's vet 
  visit
  
  I took Ginger to the vet this 
  morning for check up  not that something has been really wrong with her, but 
  since her appetite goes up and down from time to time, I thought I should just 
  make sure that all her organs are ok  
  
  When I first got her about 5 
  months ago, she was about 6 months old, but she only weighed 2 lb. But today, her weight was over 6 lb!  
  my little girl has grown so 
  much!!
  
  In house PCV test, her HCT value 
  is 32  but I also had them send it to a lab  which sometimes comes lower  
  but my vet thought her gum and tongue are nice and pink. 
  
  
  I did FeLV/FIV test since I only 
  did it once  I had a slight hope  maybe she wont be positive anymore as I 
  had read that about 2/3 of FeLV positive cats overcome the virus and test 
  negative eventually.
  
  But she was still positive  I was 
  very sad, but at the same time, it really doesnt change much in terms of how 
  I take care of her anyway.
  
  I felt so bad that Ginger freaked 
  out so much  she got so scared because dogs there were barking all the 
  time. I hope this visit wont 
  have any negative effect on her well-being due to the stress she 
  experienced today. She has 
  not eaten as much and I was a bit worried, though she did drink a whole bowl 
  of liver shake last night  I think she gets tired of eating same thing after 
  a while  She loved baby food for a long time, and all of sudden she stopped 
  eating it. Then I tried 
  cooked chicken, and she liked for a while. Then, I tried smoked turkey, which she 
  has loved for a while, now she is tired of it for now, she has loved steak, 
  but looks like she is getting tired of it, too. I try salmon, sardines, mackerel cans, 
  too. Let me know if you have any 
  suggestions.
  
  Please send Ginger positive energy 
  that her test result will come back OK  
  Thank 
  you.
  
  Hideyo  
  GingerThis email and any files transmitted 
  with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or 
  entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error 
  please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential 
  information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the 
  named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 

RE: OT:Tonya - killing ferals

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I have to definitely agree with Nina.

We, humans are the most powerful creature
on earth, and can be the most egotistical and arrogant one, too by abusing the
power we have over smaller (physically) creatures. In my mind, our lives are not any more important
than any other creatures on earth. We
have no right to end any creatures life before their time come 
we are supposed to protect lives of creatures who need
us  but not to kill it. 



I have a neighbor who eventually became a friend overtime as we happened to have the same interest 
which is to rescue feral cats. She
moved from one side of town to the other about 9 months ago and I eventually helped
her move all of her feral cats she used to feed at her old house to her new
home. Before I agreed to help her, I did warn her that she was about to change
their lives, and they may not be necessary asking for the change or may not
wanting the change (regardless of her good intensions), but as long as she does
so (regardless thats what they want or not), I would like her to make
sure that she has a responsibility to take care of their lives for the rest of
their lives. And she said, yes, and
so, I helped her move all the cats and helped them get socialized  



She did not do everything as I had asked
her to do, and she lost one of 10 cats in two days  I had asked her to
keep these cats in a cage for at least week so that they can feel safe in their
sanctuary and can get used to smell of the new house and feel
secure again. But she got stressed
out by one of the cats who was making a noise and she opened the cage and let
the cat go outside  of course, the cat (Snoodle) had no idea where she
was and never came back or seen.
I put the flyers all over the neighborhood and tried to find her (the
owner was not willing to spend the time on doing so), but never did. At this I
regretted that I helped her out for the first time.



Fortunately the rest of the cats got
adjusted ok to new life  but I just found out that she took one of the
cats, Squeekie (who was a sibling cat of the cat who ran away) back to where
she was 9 month ago  she got tired of her peeing in the house (which was
because she never trained her to use the litter box as I asked her to) 
and she forced to the corner in the bathroom and grabbed her (as she is still a
feral cats), forced her to the carrier and dumped where she was 9 month ago,
which she no longer recognize or remember  as the owner had closed down
the crawl space that she used to live in 9 month ago any more.



I got so upset  this is considered
to a suicide warrant in the rescue business  the environment is not a
same for her anymore, there are new cats she never met, and new people, and she
is so scared  so right now I am in the process of trying to find her and
trap her back so that I can give her a home again. 



I guess, what I am trying to say is that
we do things for our very convenience and change their lives whenever we want
and however we want  regardless of their wish  the neighbor has
seen her, and I staked out by the old house for a couple of house last night, I
think I so her  but she looked very scared.



Please please pray for me and sqeekie that
I can find her and can trap her again  

I need all of your good energy and
prayers!



Thank you!



Hideyo



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:59
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:Tonya - killing
ferals



Tonya,
I can't believe you would advocate killing ferals as a way to help their
plight! Yes, their life is dangerous and they do sometimes suffer, but
that doesn't mean they should be put to death. We humans are so
conditioned to our relative safety that we sometimes forget how hard life can
be on wild animals, on all wild animals. How many opossums, racoons and
squirrels are killed each day on our highways, or poisoned from
insecticides? Would you advocate systematically terminating any species
not under our direct protection? I maintain a small feral colony and have
cats that are healthy, happy and content in their circumstances. Even if
all we can do is trap, neuter, administer one round of vaccines, and release
them, they are still better off than if we turn our backs on them all
together. Cats that are neutered are much less likely to fight and spread
disease among themselves, if they are lucky enough to have a caretaker put out
food for them they will live in harmony. They can and do, live, full,
rich, happy lives. How arrogant it is to assume that only when they are
in our houses and under our direct care are they able to be happy to be
alive. Humans are the direct cause of these cats circumstances, the least
we can do is step up and accept the responsibility of helping to maintain their
numbers. Believe me, I understand the discomfort of thinking about these
cats suffering and dieing out there alone, but killing them before their time
is not 

Ginger - going off food again

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Ginger sort of stopped eating and have been force feeding
her for the past couple of days  I need your prayer and healing vibes
again, you guys.



Also, I got back Gingers blood work  all her
organs seem to be fine, but her HCT was 26 (and it was 28 back in October) 
I was sad that it did not go up from the first time I rescued her which was
back in October. She looks so much better and weighs better, but still anemic 
I really hate this virus  



Hideyo

RE: OT:Tonya - killing ferals

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Tamara, I also do understand what you are
saying  there are just not enough of us who care about ferals 
everywhere I go, I see problems, and I am stretched out so thin 
physically, and financially. I rescued
all the cats I encountered for the past few years  and I have now over
50, but I see more, and I want to save them all, but I know I cant 
its very frustrating to me and very painful to me.





-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 12:02
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT:Tonya - killing
ferals





Ok, I'm going to play devil's advocate:











I have been active in the animal rescue field for most
of my life. I have walked into alleyways in crack neighborhoods, by
myself, to feed ferals and do rescues. I have spent more money than any
sane person should on strays, and even have driven across several
states to place the unadoptable because of all I've seen, I HAD TO
SEE THE HOME FOR MYSELF, because IDO know first hand, that there ARE
places worse than death. Situations worse than death. Loving,
forever homes sponsored by legit rescues and good people...worse than
death.











I'm not advocating the killing of ferals, by any
means! But I can understand the reality behind the
decision. 











Not everyone will go to the end of the world for a cat
or dog that they didn't specifically choose..We (I am including everyone of
you on this list) few are the exceptionand as you all know...there's just
not enough of us to go around.











I've worked in shelters. I've volunteered at
no-kills. There have been animals at both where even I have
voiced...Enough. NOT because they weren't worth the
trouble...but because there are so few who would take the trouble.











As for ferals, we do need to understand that many just
don't choose to deal with humans...either because of past experiences or for
their own reasons. But, they are intelligent, whole beings with their own
needs and desires and should be treated respecting this











I'm not certain there is an absolute right answer
here...I'm not pretending to know.











Would I actively support the killing of ferals?
NO. Is it possible for me understand why some do?...unfortunately, when
you've seen what I've seen...yes.











But faced with the matter first hand, I'd still prob.
go into the poor house first...but I won't condemn those who draw the line
either.











Tamara

MacKenzie, Kerry
N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







I agree with Nina. 





I think it'sconflicting
and difficult enough to make a decision to euthanize when an animal is
terminally ill and suffering---one is torn between desperately not wanting the
animal in our care to suffer any more, and making this momentous and irreversible decision on the part of
another living and helpless creature.





So, we have absolutely
nobusiness taking the perfectly content lives of animalsinto our
own hands because of what
may happen to them in the future.







Re PETA, I am very
disappointed inthat organization--it seems tohave become confused
in its old age.





PETAwill not be
getting $$$ from me.





Kerry







-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 11:59
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:Tonya - killing
ferals



Tonya,
I can't believe you would advocate killing ferals as a way to help their
plight! Yes, their life is dangerous and they do sometimes suffer, but
that doesn't mean they should be put to death. We humans are so
conditioned to our relative safety that we sometimes forget how hard life can
be on wild animals, on all wild animals. How many opossums, racoons and
squirrels are killed each day on our highways, or poisoned from insecticides?
Would you advocate systematically terminating any species not under our direct
protection? I maintain a small feral colony and have cats that are
healthy, happy and content in their circumstances. Even if all we can do
is trap, neuter, administer one round of vaccines, and release them, they are
still better off than if we turn our backs on them all together. Cats
that are neutered are much less likely to fight and spread disease among
themselves, if they are lucky enough to have a caretaker put out food for them
they will live in harmony. They can and do, live, full, rich, happy
lives. How arrogant it is to assume that only when they are in our houses
and under our direct care are they able to be happy to be alive. Humans
are the direct cause of these cats circumstances, the least we can do is step
up and accept the responsibility of helping to maintain their numbers.
Believe me, I understand the discomfort of thinking about these cats suffering
and dieing out there alone, but killing them before their time is not the
answer.

Nina


catatonya wrote:





Unless you can find a 

RE: OT:Tonya - killing ferals

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thanks for the tip, Tamara. Actually, I was thinking of a dog trap
that I have, as
you said (and you are right), she is more cautious now  

Right now, there is a normal cat trap with
the food but not set (left open with the bungee code) so that she can get used
to eat in there  but there are other cats who eat there, I am thinking
of using a dog trap which is much bigger, and I need to manually manipulate the
swing door of the trap using a long long rope so that I can close it from a
distance when I see her go and eat  



After she ate last night (and I am hoping
that it is her, since there is another cat look like her that eats there) 
she saw me and we had an eye contact for about 15 seconds or so 
everything stopped for the moment as if she was saying to me, are you here to
save my life???  something about the way she
looked at me, I felt that (silly, huh?)  she did not run right away, but
continued to look at me  maybe she remembered me as I took care of her
and her siblings when the owner was out of town for a while  



She used to sleep under the bed in my
friends house, now she doesnt even know where she is supposed to
sleep and it breaks my heart to think about it  please continue to pray
that I will be re-united with her very very soon, you guys!



Thank you very much,



Hideyo



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:08
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT:Tonya - killing
ferals





God bless ya
Hideyo...I'll keep you both in my prayers! (Tip: Squeekie might be
extremely cautious of closed in spaces and be very hard to trap now. Try,
if you can, a small dog crate...pref. black bars...put grass or leaves or
debris of some such in the bottom so it smells the same as the area on which it
sitsfeed her in there for several days without trying to catch her...once
she becomes comfortable eating in there...swing the door closed and off you can
go! You can find these crate at PetSmart for $45 or at the local humane
society...they are often left behind with dogs are turned over...Good
luck! Keep us informed!)

MacKenzie, Kerry
N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



I said it before and I'll
say it again, Hideyo: you're an angel. you really are. You're those kitties'
guardian angel. Sending positive vibes that you find Squeekie, and you find her
soon~~Kerry



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:43
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT:Tonya - killing
ferals

I have to definitely
agree with Nina.

We, humans are the most
powerful creature on earth, and can be the most egotistical and arrogant one,
too by abusing the power we have over smaller (physically) creatures. In my mind, our lives are not any more
important than any other creatures on earth. We have no right to end any
creatures life before their time come  we are supposed to protect
lives of creatures who need us  but not to kill it. 



I have a neighbor who
eventually became a friend overtime as we happened to have the same interest
 which is to rescue feral cats.
She moved from one side of town to the other about 9 months ago and I
eventually helped her move all of her feral cats she used to feed at her old
house to her new home. Before I agreed to help her, I did warn her that she was
about to change their lives, and they may not be necessary asking for the
change or may not wanting the change (regardless of her good intensions), but
as long as she does so (regardless thats what they want or not), I would
like her to make sure that she has a responsibility to take care of their lives
for the rest of their lives. And
she said, yes, and so, I helped her move all the cats and helped them get
socialized  



She did not do everything
as I had asked her to do, and she lost one of 10 cats in two days  I had
asked her to keep these cats in a cage for at least week so that they can feel
safe in their sanctuary and can get used to smell of the new house and feel
secure again. But she got stressed
out by one of the cats who was making a noise and she opened the cage and let
the cat go outside  of course, the cat (Snoodle) had no idea where she
was and never came back or seen.
I put the flyers all over the neighborhood and tried to find her (the
owner was not willing to spend the time on doing so), but never did. At this I
regretted that I helped her out for the first time.



Fortunately the rest of
the cats got adjusted ok to new life  but I just found out that she took
one of the cats, Squeekie (who was a sibling cat of the cat who ran away) back
to where she was 9 month ago  she got tired of her peeing in the house
(which was because she never trained her to use the litter box as I asked her
to)  and she forced to the corner in the bathroom and grabbed her (as
she is still a feral cats), forced her to the carrier

RE: OT: killing ferals

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Nina. I know I can be too paranoid, too.
There this stray boy kitty that I feed in the area, got really nasty
abuses all infected and flies were all over the scar - so me and my
neighbor (a different neighbor) caught in using a fish net - and put him
in the cage so that we can care for him - 

And my neighbor, Susan just emailed to say that her friend's wife is
interested in adopting him - and I sort of talked her out of it -
mainly, because he sprays, and I did not want this person to let him go
outside to a new strange area because he sprays in the house and she
does not want him anymore - and partly, because he has been around in
the area for a long time, and he might try to get back home, and don't
want him to get lost or get in a car accident - 

Some things are better untouched - this is a hard lesson I learned from
being the rescue - but you just never know which is better - touched or
untouched - 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:42 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: killing ferals

I just want to say that I'm sorry I included Tonya's name in this 
thread. I know that Tonya is a loving caring fur mom, this just happens 
to be one of those subjects that gets my fur up. I don't have the 
answers either, I wish I did. I just know that I love my ferals as much 
as the cats living in my house. The thought of anyone rounding them up 
to be killed sets my soul on fire! I feel the same way about any pest 
humans feel compelled to eradicate. Don't even get me started on the 
plight of wolves!

Hideyo,
I'm sorry about what happened with your neighbor and her colony. I'm 
praying that you are able to rescue Squeekie, and that Snoodle will 
miraculously show up to feed at your house. So many good intentioned 
people are just not committed to doing whatever is necessary to help 
these guys make the transition to a new home. Sometimes even those of us

who are, can't always figure out how to help. I work with rescue groups 
in my area and they have been an enormous help in many ways, but I have 
yet to adopt out any cat in my care through them. I guess I just can't 
give up the illusion of control. I say illusion, because as hard as it

is to face, we aren't in control at all. All we can do, is the best we 
can do. And you know as well as I, some ferals will never acclimate to 
living in a house. I wish the woman had contacted you so you could have 
come up with a better solution than just dumping poor Squeekie out on 
her own like that.

Please don't beat yourself up for helping someone else take 
responsibility for these cats. I know how frustrating and disheartning 
it can be when people won't/don't take advise that you've learned 
through hard knocks might help them. People pay me to help train their 
dogs, and still don't follow my advise sometimes! You are already 
overwhelmed. For the sake of the cats already in your care, your sanity 
and limited resources, you have to allow others to help in whatever way,

or extent they are capable of. As Tamara has already said, there just 
aren't enough of us to go around.

Much love,
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

 I have to definitely agree with Nina.

 We, humans are the most powerful creature on earth, and can be the 
 most egotistical and arrogant one, too by abusing the power we have 
 over smaller (physically) creatures. In my mind, our lives are not any

 more important than any other creatures on earth. We have no right to 
 end any creature's life before their time come - we are supposed to 
 protect lives of creatures who need us - but not to kill it.

 I have a neighbor who eventually became a friend overtime as we 
 happened to have the same interest - which is to rescue feral cats. 
 She moved from one side of town to the other about 9 months ago and I 
 eventually helped her move all of her feral cats she used to feed at 
 her old house to her new home. Before I agreed to help her, I did warn

 her that she was about to change their lives, and they may not be 
 necessary asking for the change or may not wanting the change 
 (regardless of her good intensions), but as long as she does so 
 (regardless that's what they want or not), I would like her to make 
 sure that she has a responsibility to take care of their lives for the

 rest of their lives. And she said, yes, and so, I helped her move all 
 the cats and helped them get socialized -

 She did not do everything as I had asked her to do, and she lost one 
 of 10 cats in two days - I had asked her to keep these cats in a cage 
 for at least week so that they can feel safe in their sanctuary and 
 can get used to smell of the new house and feel secure again. But she 
 got stressed out by one of the cats who was making a noise and she 
 opened the cage and let the cat go outside - of course, the cat 
 (Snoodle) had no idea where she was and never came back or seen. I put

RE: Ginger - going off food again

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Oh yeah, I wanted to apply for the process - how do I do that?  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:48 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Ginger - going off food again

Hideyo,
   I think you should try Immuno-regulin for her. Your vet should be
able to 
get it. also, can you start the process to get VO?  If you start the
process 
to get it yourself, I can send you one of my remaining two boxes of it
(good 
for one 5 day dose, or more if she weighs under 11 pounds).  I want to
make sure 
that I have some here so do not want to send it without much hope of
getting 
it back.  We are moving in a few months and would like to be back to
having 3 
boxes by then so i can give to each of my 3 positives prior to the move
to 
enhance their immune systems.

Michelle

In a message dated 3/14/05 3:47:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

writes:

 Ginger sort of stopped eating and have been force feeding her for the
past couple of days - I need your prayer and healing vibes again, you
guys.
 
Also, I got back Ginger's blood work - all her organs seem to be fine,
but her HCT was 26 (and it was 28 back in October) - I was sad that it
did not go up from the first time I rescued her which was back in
October. She looks so much better and weighs better, but still anemic -
I really hate this virus - 
 
Hideyo
 

RE: Ginger - going off food again

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Sorry, I found it - I must have overlooked it - thank you, Michelle!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:57 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Ginger - going off food again

I sent a reply the last time you asked with the info that your vet needs
to 
send to the FDA.  It was the second time I reposted it from the
archives.  It 
was about a week ago. Please look for it there, because otherwise I have
to get 
on our other computer and look from it in my files and cut and paste it
and I 
have already done that twice.
Michelle


In a message dated 3/14/05 4:55:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

writes:

 Oh yeah, I wanted to apply for the process - how do I do that?  

RE: OT:Tonya - killing ferals

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I am sorry, but I still cant agree
with that  There was a situation where we had a total of over 50 feral cats
who were fed by someone  and the person died of cancer a few months ago,
but the rescue group I work with, no one had any intention of trapping and
killing them including myself because of it  as we knew how much these
cats lives meant to the person who died of cancer and she had contributed so
much to lives of all the feral cats in the city  so what we did was, we
trapped all of them (except a few that we couldnt due to some stupid
mistakes we made)  and there were all taken by someone, and if not, have
been relocated to some place where someone else could take care of them 
there is always risk of re-locating feral and I dont usually go for it 
but when there is no alternatives, re-locating them is a better choice than
killing them. I feel that we humans
always have a choice to make, whether we are willing to make it or not 
we just simply do have a choice regardless of situations. I just simply cant
agree to the belief that we have no choice, but to kill them  thats
an arrogant thinking of our part  why not re-locate them and give them
another chance if they are healthy  just the thought breaks my heart 
and sometime I am sad that I am one of them  



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 4:10
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:Tonya - killing
ferals





I just think we're talking about different
situations. My Mamma Kitty I brought home from North Carolina last winter
was living with a feral colony. The colony lives in the woods behind my
sister's neighborhood. She feeds them, and we try to trap and spay what
we can. In the meantime we stay worried sick about them being killed by hawks
and coyotes, dogs, etc But we don't just trap them and euthanize
them. We let them live out their lives.











Other instances are for example 45 cats found living
in an abandoned school bus where people had been feeding them and moved
away. Property being cleared for new homes. We have a few days to
relocate 45 ferals? Not likely. A man dies leaving (we counted over 80)
sick, inbred, injured cats on his property. Family wants them gone
yesterday, or they call animal control to trap and euthanize. Where do we
relocate that many sick, injured cats? Even the well ones. It's
very hard to relocate a colony IF on the unlikely chance someone says they'll
take them if we spay/neuter them? 











A restaurant calls with 25 or so ferals living in the
dumpsters behind the shopping center. We can get them out within a week
or they will poison them.











We do what we can do. Sometimes trapping and
euthanizing is the only option we have. Currently our humane society just
goes into Mobile Home parks and spays/neuters everything they can find.
Whether they have homes or not, they leave them to live out their lives.
We also have spay days where people who have ferals on their property can use
our traps and bring them to us to spay/neuter/release. There are just
cases, though, where that won't work.











I don't think anyone enjoys 'playing God' with the
lives of these animals. But we are basically put in that position and
just have to do the best we can. I'm sure all of my cats would be
'happier' if I let them go outside. But I don't, because I don't think
that's best for them. That's playing God as well. I'm
sure they'd rather have Fancy Feast every day too, but they don't get it.
: ) I'm sure they'd rather not go to the vet, etc etc...











With children, of course, there is no option to 'kill'
them because they are abused, sick, or whatever. I wish that were the
case for animals as well. But it's not. Every time we get an email
on the list from someone trying to place a sick cat or it will be euthanized
are we all guilty because we don't take it? Aren't each of us making a
decision that the cat will have to die because we can't take it?











It would be nice to solve all the problems, but I
don't have the answers either.











t

Nina
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Tonya,
What you went through with those dogs is heart wrenching! How awful for 
you and the dogs. I should have known there was a story like that 
behind your comments.

 My opinion is sometimes trapping and euthanizing is the best we can 
do for them. And these are domestic animals, whether they be feral from 
the fault of humans or not, it's a hard life for the adults and horrible 
for the kittens. :(

While there may have been no alternative for those poor feral dogs, it's 
not the same for feral cats. Dogs pose a danger to the humans in their 
territory in a way cats never could. Wild cats are fringe dwellers, 
it's rare to even see a truly feral cat, let alone be threatened by 
one. They don't hunt in packs and don't pose a threat to humans or 
domestic pets, (unless of course they are 

RE: New addition

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message









Ditto  a story like this makes our
day, doesnt it? Thank you for sharing and for giving your love and new
home to your new baby.



Hideyo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 3:35
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: New addition





I've got tears in my eyes. That's
fabulous, Terrie. I wish you, your husbandand Kitty (have you named her
yet) many happy years together.





Kerry



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:21
PM
To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: New addition



Hi all,





 Last week this time
I picked up a kitty that was willed to my rescue that another Humane Society
had delivered to me. They drove over 3 hours to get her to me.





Never had one this old willed to me
before. The person was put into a nursing home and passed on. This kitty I
swear maybe had a few days of life in her...now she is progressing
well...Amazing!





Anyway, the kitty is negativeon
theFelv/Fiv test





(they tested her). 





She is a 15 yr old Spayed female
Siamese purebred. She was extremely underweight she is alarge bonedkitty
and has big feet. She could very easily weigh when healthy 14-15 pounds but she
is lucky if she weighs 5-6 pounds at the time of arrival. Very nice personality
gets along with my others.





I have been feeding her alot of
different dryfoods because I free feed my kitties. Been giving her extra
wetfood as well. She has gain almost a pound since being here. Fur is getting
soft. She had diarrhea the first 2 days, now that is gone stools are solid and
normal...YAY!





Is there something else that I can
give her to help boost her system? Like supplements or something?





She will be pampered by my husband
and I for the rest of her life. Last night she purred for the first time since
being here. She is such a sweetie too...By the way she does sleep with us and
the other kitties on our bed. 





THANK GOD it's a King Size bed!





I'm open for any
suggestions...thanks!













Terrie Mohr

Check site for available Siameses for adoption!

http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYS

https://www.paypal.com/
TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS


http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue

http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html

http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html

TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS
SIAMESE  COLLIE RESCUE
Owner/Driver

Petfinder.com
Adopt a Homeless Pet!

http://www.petfinder.com/

http://www.orecatay.com/

http://www.awca.net/index.htm
http://www.felineleukemia.org/
http://www.petloss.com/
http://www.meezer.com/

http://thesiamesestore.com/

http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.html

http://ca.siameserescue.org/

http://co.siameserescue.org/

http://va.siameserescue.org/








This email and any files transmitted
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image001.jpgimage002.jpg

RE: OT: New addition

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

How about Transfer Factor  it will
be a good immune booster regardless of the health condition for older kitties -




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barb Moermond
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 3:34 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: New addition





The only thing I remember for older kitties (and
people) is B12. Remember Jamie's family cat that was older than she
was? That's the only special thing they did for her.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



Hi all,





 Last week this time I picked up a kitty that
was willed to my rescue that another Humane Society had delivered to me.
They drove over 3 hours to get her to me.





Never had one this old willed to me before. The person was put
into a nursing home and passed on. This kitty I swear maybe had a few days of
life in her...now she is progressing well...Amazing!





Anyway, the kitty is negativeon theFelv/Fiv test





(they tested her). 





She is a 15 yr old Spayed female Siamese purebred. She was
extremely underweight she is alarge bonedkitty and has big feet.
She could very easily weigh when healthy 14-15 pounds but she is lucky if she
weighs 5-6 pounds at the time of arrival. Very nice personality gets along with
my others.





I have been feeding her alot of different dryfoods because I
free feed my kitties. Been giving her extra wetfood as well. She has gain
almost a pound since being here. Fur is getting soft. She had diarrhea the
first 2 days, now that is gone stools are solid and normal...YAY!





Is there something else that I can give her to help boost her
system? Like supplements or something?





She will be pampered by my husband and I for the rest of her
life. Last night she purred for the first time since being here. She is such a
sweetie too...By the way she does sleep with us and the other kitties on our
bed. 





THANK GOD it's a King Size bed!





I'm open for any suggestions...thanks!













Terrie Mohr

Check site for available Siameses for adoption!

http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYS

https://www.paypal.com/
TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS


http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue

http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html

http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html

TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS
SIAMESE  COLLIE RESCUE
Owner/Driver

Petfinder.com
Adopt a Homeless Pet!

http://www.petfinder.com/

http://www.orecatay.com/

http://www.awca.net/index.htm
http://www.felineleukemia.org/
http://www.petloss.com/
http://www.meezer.com/

http://thesiamesestore.com/

http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.html

http://ca.siameserescue.org/

http://co.siameserescue.org/

http://va.siameserescue.org/












Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous







Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Sign
up for Fantasy Baseball.






image001.jpgimage002.jpg

RE: OT- Squeekie

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message









After 12 hours of staking out, I finally
trapped Squeekie one who was abandoned by my neighbor 9 months later 

She is scared, but I know that she will be
socialized no time  I can already pet her and stuff. When I told my
neighbor that, she said, you can I could never touch her  and I knew
that was because she never gave Squeekie an opportunity to be socialized in
certain way. My boyfriend looked at
her, and she said, she sits like Buddha  if she likes the name, I might change
her name so that she wont have to remember bad things happened with the
name.



Thank you very much for all your good
vibes and prayers  she is safe with me now.

RE: OT- Squeekie

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

That probably is a very true statement 
I am an easy one to be trapped!



Hideyo



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005
1:04 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT- Squeekie





hehehe...you REALLY think YOU trapped HER huh?
I'm thinking she trapped YOU quite some time ago :) !











God Bless,





Enjoy each other!  Congrats!





T

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





After 12 hours of staking
out, I finally trapped Squeekie one who was abandoned by my neighbor 9 months
later 

She is scared, but I know
that she will be socialized no time  I can already pet her and stuff.
When I told my neighbor that, she said, you can I could never touch her
 and I knew that was because she never gave Squeekie an opportunity to
be socialized in certain way. My
boyfriend looked at her, and she said, she sits like Buddha  if she
likes the name, I might change her name so that she wont have to
remember bad things happened with the name.



Thank you very much for
all your good vibes and prayers  she is safe with me now.













Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try
our new resources site! 

OT-need advise

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I need an advise from you  I am planning to take Buddha
(squeekie) for blood test to make sure that everything is ok before I merge her
with mine  I can pet her, but she is not completely socialized 
and heres a sort of my dilemma as to how to get blood out of her 
One way to anthetize (?) her first
so that she doesnt have to be awake when they do that, and another thing
is to give her drowsy drug (called Acepromazine) to make her bit sleepy prior
to the appointment (risk: it can cause a seizure) 
so I am not sure what to do  any suggestions  I really hate to do
either  but also I hate the idea of stressing her out trying to get a
blood out of her, and it might not even be possible.

RE: OT-need advise

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Good idea.
I do have Feliway  I might try that and also liked the blanket
idea.



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:16
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT-need advise





Have you tried Feliway to calm her down. You also
might be able to put a blanket on her and ask the vet to go in that way, a
blanket over the head that also calms them down.

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I need an advise from you  I
am planning to take Buddha (squeekie) for blood test to make sure that
everything is ok before I merge her with mine  I can pet her, but she is
not completely socialized  and heres a sort of my dilemma as to
how to get blood out of her  One way to anthetize (?) her first so that she doesnt have to
be awake when they do that, and another thing is to give her drowsy drug
(called Acepromazine) to make her bit sleepy prior to the appointment (risk: it
can cause a seizure)  so I am not sure what to do  any
suggestions  I really hate to do either  but also I hate the idea
of stressing her out trying to get a blood out of her, and it might not even be
possible.

RE: OT-need advise

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Actually, my vet is already prescribing it
for me so that I can pick it up just in case I decide to use it  

Smoky did not get any type of side effect
at all? How handlable will it make her
be if she is a sort of feral cat, do you know?




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barb Moermond
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:49
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT-need advise





acepromezine - actually it was a 1/2 tab
andSmoky's tabs were5mg but it also comes in 10mg





I just called my vet so you wouldn't have to wait:)

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Thank you, That will be
great!



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barb Moermond
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:44
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT-need advise





oh, and the dose was a quarter tab and I can check the
bottle to see what the strength of the pill was...

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Thats
good to know as well  do you remember how long it takes to be in effect,
and how long the effect will last?



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barb Moermond
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:20
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT-need advise





I'd go with the acepromezine if it won't alter any of
the blood levels. Smoky was on that for a few days during his cystitis
outbreak and was fine - VEEERY mellow.

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I need an advise from you  I
am planning to take Buddha (squeekie) for blood test to make sure that
everything is ok before I merge her with mine  I can pet her, but she is
not completely socialized  and heres a sort of my dilemma as to
how to get blood out of her  One way to anthetize (?) her first so that she doesnt have to
be awake when they do that, and another thing is to give her drowsy drug
(called Acepromazine) to make her bit sleepy prior to the appointment (risk: it
can cause a seizure)  so I am not sure what to do  any
suggestions  I really hate to do either  but also I hate the idea
of stressing her out trying to get a blood out of her, and it might not even be
possible.





Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous















Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try
our new resources site! 





Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous











Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try
our new resources site! 





Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous







Do you Yahoo!?
Make
Yahoo! your home page 

RE: OT-need advise

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I heard a similar thing, too. How will the
vet sedate her, by injection?



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Friday, March 18,
 2005 11:22 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT-need advise



When we were taking Gypsy
in for her tests she was still very feral. We tried to dose her with a
sedative to calm her enough to put her in a carrier. She was so drunk
that we thought it would be easy. Not so. It seemed like her being
that drunk only made her more upset. She was fighting so hard that we
were very lucky she didn't hurt herself, (my poor husband did get bit!).
I think not being in control of her body made her even more anxious about the
capture. The next time we took her to the vet, we didn't sedate
her. It was actually easier to capture her, and she didn't try to bite
either of us. I would either knock her out with enough medication to keep
her sedated until they do the blood work, (ask your vet), or use the Feliway
and Rescue Remedy to help calm her. If Buddha is as feral as it sounds,
and because she's been through so much lately, I'd think about having a
house-call vet come. Give her the RR, (you can use it like a transdermal
on the inside tip of her ear, don't get it in her ear canal), put her
somewhere that's been heavily sprayed with Feliway and wait for her to be calm.
Then have the vet sedate her, then take the blood. That will save her the
stress of a car ride and having to go to the vet's office. Just my 2
cents.
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: 

I need an advise from you  I am planning to take
Buddha (squeekie) for blood test to make sure that everything is ok before I
merge her with mine  I can pet her, but she is not completely socialized
 and heres a sort of my dilemma as to how to get blood out of her
 One way to anthetize (?) her first so that she doesnt have
to be awake when they do that, and another thing is to give her drowsy drug
(called Acepromazine) to make her bit sleepy prior to the appointment (risk: it
can cause a seizure)  so I am not sure what to do  any
suggestions  I really hate to do either  but also I hate the idea
of stressing her out trying to get a blood out of her, and it might not even be
possible.

RE: OT-need advise

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Oh  my gosh  Every time,
when I have to spay my feral, there are very easy way to transport them into a
gas chamber (the box you put to anthetize)  there is no stress on cats
in a sense that they are willing to go to a boxes (its trick you need to
know)  let me know if you guys need the trick  very easy  but vets usually have
no idea how to do  I have to train them to do so - 



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 12:40
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT-need advise





I had a very feral kitty and we used a long net to
catch her to sedate her then she freaked out and had a heart attack, after the
shot instead of mellowing it just plain freaked her out, and killed her.

Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 

When we were taking Gypsy in for her tests she was
still very feral. We tried to dose her with a sedative to calm her enough
to put her in a carrier. She was so drunk that we thought it would be
easy. Not so. It seemed like her being that drunk only made her
more upset. She was fighting so hard that we were very lucky she didn't
hurt herself, (my poor husband did get bit!). I think not being in
control of her body made her even more anxious about the capture. The
next time we took her to the vet, we didn't sedate her. It was actually
easier to capture her, and she didn't try to bite either of us. I would
either knock her out with enough medication to keep her sedated until they do
the blood work, (ask your vet), or use the Feliway and Rescue Remedy to help
calm her. If Buddha is as feral as it sounds, and because she's been
through so much lately, I'd think about having a house-call vet come.
Give her the RR, (you can use it like a transdermal on the inside tip of
her ear, don't get it in her ear canal), put her somewhere that's been heavily
sprayed with Feliway and wait for her to be calm. Then have the vet
sedate her, then take the blood. That will save her the stress of a car
ride and having to go to the vet's office. Just my 2 cents.
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: 

I need an advise from you  I
am planning to take Buddha (squeekie) for blood test to make sure that
everything is ok before I merge her with mine  I can pet her, but she is
not completely socialized  and heres a sort of my dilemma as to
how to get blood out of her  One way to anthetize (?) her first so
that she doesnt have to be awake when they do that, and another thing is
to give her drowsy drug (called Acepromazine) to make her bit sleepy prior to
the appointment (risk: it can cause a seizure)  so I am not sure what to
do  any suggestions  I really hate to do either  but also
I hate the idea of stressing her out trying to get a blood out of her, and it
might not even be possible.

RE: OT-need advise

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

The key to success for keeping feral calm
is complete darkness  from the moment you trap them, you
will need to cover the entire trap with a big sheet  it doesnt
have to be something dark  I like to use a light color sheet myself, so
that it will allow some light, but feral feels completely safe as soon as they
are completely covered. So, anytime you need to transfer the feral from a trap
to a trap, or trap to crate and back forth  feral ALWAYS go to where the
darkness is  so lets say if I want to transfer my feral trap A to
a gas chamber box (that is a box that they put ISO gas to anesthetize them
before spaying/neutering  its a clear box  but the doors
sort of slides open and close, which makes the transport much easier (works
like gilotin (? - sliding door) door instead of a swing door, which makes more
risky to lose them when opening the door)



So, first you create the complete darkness
for Trap A (where the cat is) and Trap B (or could be a crate or gas chamber
box)  they put both of them side by side very very tightly - and you open
the gilton door just enough for them to get through and also you open the door
of Trap B for about the same space (remember, dont create a big opening,
or they will get out). Or if its a swing door, you will need to create a
visual block using more sheets or blankets so that it looks like there is a
small opening for them to get through (not practically, but visually, it does).



Anyway, you will need someone to help you
first so that there will be less risk to lose them  again dont do
this in a big open space, do it a small confined space like a bathroom, so if
you lose them, they are still in side (but if you do lose them, dont
force to catch them  you will just need to re-trap them)  anyway,
as soon as the opening space is there and its small enough, but big enough
for them to get through, you will gradually remove the sheets form the trap A
and the feral will either go to Trap B (where the darkness is ) real quick, or
s/he may look around and walk really low, and slow, but they will all
eventually go there  I have done this hundreds of times, and works like
a miracle 100% of the time. Again,
this only works with feral, remember!
Again, none of vets know this technique  and they usually dont
like to be told something they dont know  but my vet was smart
and receptive enough to listen to me  and has worked out so much better
for my feral  you wouldnt want to know how they treat feral if
they dont know how to handle them (I have seen it  and its
frightening, even for me)



So, when I take my feral for spaying 
they are in a trap covered with a sheet  then, they are moved to a gas
chamber box (fish tank looking things) with the same technique above, and once
s/he is in the box, they put gas directly, without an any
injection  so that they dont get stressed out  



Again, this technique NEVER NEVER forces
the feral to do anything they dont want to do  they DO at their
own will  thats why its less stressful  does it
make sense?



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Friday, March 18,
 2005 1:07 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT-need advise



Hideyo,
If you have a very easy way to transport ferals, I'd love to hear
it! What are you talking about when you say a gas chamber
box? The only way my vets have ever sedated my ferals is by using a
trap-separater and injecting them through the bars. Please, if you know
of an easier way to sedate a feral, 'train' me too :) !
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:



Oh  my gosh  Every time, when I have to spay my
feral, there are very easy way to transport them into a gas chamber (the box
you put to anthetize)  there is no stress on cats in a sense that they
are willing to go to a boxes (its trick you need to know)  let me
know if you guys need the trick  very easy  but vets
usually have no idea how to do  I have to train them to do so - 



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 12:40
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT-need advise





I had a very feral kitty
and we used a long net to catch her to sedate her then she freaked out and had
a heart attack, after the shot instead of mellowing it just plain freaked her
out, and killed her.

Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 

When we were taking Gypsy
in for her tests she was still very feral. We tried to dose her with a
sedative to calm her enough to put her in a carrier. She was so drunk
that we thought it would be easy. Not so. It seemed like her being
that drunk only made her more upset. She was fighting so hard that we
were very lucky she didn't hurt herself, (my poor husband did get bit!).
I think not being in control of her body made her even more anxious about the
capture. The next time we took her to the vet, we didn't sedate
her. It was actually easier to capture her, and she didn't

RE: OT-need advise

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Do you remember what part of her body your
vet drew blood from? My vet does it from
under the chin area  which sort of makes it difficult to cover her completely
with a towel, I thought ---



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:43
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT-need advise





I trapped my feral by putting canned food in
carriers. All the cats went in to eat, and finally she did too and I
closed the door behind her. This worked several times over the
years. I didn't take her in to the vet every year.











When I got to the vet's, they just threw a towel over
her, kept her covered and were able to draw blood, vaccinate, etc without
sedating her..











And she was VERY feral. When she got sick last
year and I had to catch her and couldn't get her to go for the feeding idea she
bit me very badly twice.











Still, once I caught her the vet was able to handle
her at the office without sedation.











tonya

Cherie A Gabbert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







I had a very feral kitty and we used a long net to
catch her to sedate her then she freaked out and had a heart attack, after the
shot instead of mellowing it just plain freaked her out, and killed her.

Nina
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

When we were taking Gypsy in for her tests she was
still very feral. We tried to dose her with a sedative to calm her enough
to put her in a carrier. She was so drunk that we thought it would be
easy. Not so. It seemed like her being that drunk only made her
more upset. She was fighting so hard that we were very lucky she didn't
hurt herself, (my poor husband did get bit!). I think not being in
control of her body made her even more anxious about the capture. The
next time we took her to the vet, we didn't sedate her. It was actually
easier to capture her, and she didn't try to bite either of us. I would
either knock her out with enough medication to keep her sedated until they do
the blood work, (ask your vet), or use the Feliway and Rescue Remedy to help
calm her. If Buddha is as feral as it sounds, and because she's been
through so much lately, I'd think about having a house-call vet come.
Give her the RR, (you can use it like a transdermal on the inside tip of
her ear, don't get it in her ear canal), put her somewhere that's been heavily
sprayed with Feliway and wait for her to be calm. Then have the vet
sedate her, then take the blood. That will save her the stress of a car
ride and having to go to the vet's office. Just my 2 cents.
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: 

I need an advise from you  I
am planning to take Buddha (squeekie) for blood test to make sure that
everything is ok before I merge her with mine  I can pet her, but she is
not completely socialized  and heres a sort of my dilemma as to
how to get blood out of her  One way to anthetize (?) her first so
that she doesnt have to be awake when they do that, and another thing is
to give her drowsy drug (called Acepromazine) to make her bit sleepy prior to
the appointment (risk: it can cause a seizure)  so I am not sure what to
do  any suggestions  I really hate to do either  but also
I hate the idea of stressing her out trying to get a blood out of her, and it
might not even be possible.

RE: Anyone in the Carolinas able to take a FeLV positive kitty?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I am in the same situation as you are 
I know that there are lots of
people on the list who mix their negatives with positives and they vaccinate
negative ones and sound like their negative ones remain negative that way 



But since I have 20 plus negatives and I
dont vaccinate my cats  it was hard for me to consider mixing
negatives with my Ginger who is positive  but I have kept her, and am
intended to keep her as for the rest of my (and her life), separately from my
negative ones  is it at all possible for TC? 



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stephanie E Caldwell
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:32 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Anyone in the Carolinas able to take a FeLV
positive kitty?



I have been adopted by a
very sweet older Tom Cat who has FeLV. Hes at the vet now getting fluids
and antibiotics along with a Rabies shot, he had a secondary infection from
fighting. I am not able to keep him as an inside kitty as I have other cats and
dont want them infected. Is anyone here in a position to take TC (Tom
Cat). Hes a large tom, solid white, one blue eye and one gold eye. Very
sweet kitty, purrs and sleeps at your feet. 



Please let me know ASAP if
you can take TC!

Steph

OT:anethesia

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message



As much as I hate 
the idea of having Buddah (Squeekie) go though it, after discussing it with my 
friend, who is in the rescue group, I was going to have her anethetize her with 
ISO gas to draw the blood - because of what happenen to my baby Suzi (she died 
right after spaying surgery, I really hate the idea of doing so, but at the same 
time, she felt that it might be least traumatic to her considering other 
options, she also offered to take the blood herself since she is so used to do 
so with feral cats (she is a vet tech as well) - but it might be for a while 
before she can help me, and I really want to be able to get her interact with my 
other kitties - let me know if I should re-consider anethesia - 

RE: OT:anethesia

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Title: Message



I am 
so very sorry to hear what happened to Snowball - it's so sad - I know there is 
always such a concern for anethesia and surgery - I go back and forth every 
time.
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Cherie A GabbertSent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 
3:23 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: 
OT:anethesia

  I am sorry I meant if the cat is already positive. I was not aware that 
  Snowball was positive, since all his test came back normal, but once he was 
  put under to be fixed, a week or so later he bled to death, and I was informed 
  that he was FeLV positive at that point.Hideyo Yamamoto 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  

Do 
you mean, if the cat is FeLV positive already, it might cause the virus to 
be activated? Or do you mean, even if they are negative prior to, it 
can cause it to be positive after the ahethsia?
(I 
am sorry for not being clear, but I don't have any reasons to beleive that 
Buddah is FeLV positive - but i need to make sure before I merge her with 
the rest)

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cherie A 
  GabbertSent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 3:10 PMTo: 
  felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: 
  OT:anethesia
  I have always thought that using the anethesia, sometimes that will 
  trigger the FeLV virus. That is what happed to 
  mySnowball.Hideyo Yamamoto 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  

As much as I 
hate the idea of having Buddah (Squeekie) go though it, after discussing 
it with my friend, who is in the rescue group, I was going to have her 
anethetize her with ISO gas to draw the blood - because of what happenen 
to my baby Suzi (she died right after spaying surgery, I really hate the 
idea of doing so, but at the same time, she felt that it might be least 
traumatic to her considering other options, she also offered to take the 
blood herself since she is so used to do so with feral cats (she is a 
vet tech as well) - but it might be for a while before she can help me, 
and I really want to be able to get her interact with my other kitties - 
let me know if I should re-consider anethesia - 
  

OT:FIV false positive?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Buddha (Squeekie)s blood work came back from a lab 
when we did ELISA in house clinic test, she was negative on FeLV/FIV 
then, Antech lab did the virus test again on ELISA (by mistake since I did not
ask them to do so, but they did it anyway by mistake), but on their ELISA test
from the lab, the FIV came back as positive.



I had a similar thing happened to one my other kitties,
Rikki  when I first rescued him, the ELISA (both in house test and
antech lab) came back as negative, 2 months later, we re-tested him again, and
the antech came back as positive on FIV (did not do in house at this time) 
but I have always felt (just a feeling) that it was false positive for some
reason, but the meantime, he was isolated from others just in case  and two or three years later
(which is sometime last year), I tested him again, and this time, in ELISA,
both in house clinic and Antech lab came back as Negative, and ELISA/Western
Blot by Cornell came back as negative, but DNA test through another lab came
back as Positive  which was very confusing. And I was supposed to send it again to
UC Davis for another DNA test as recommended by Cornell  but never have 
so he is still isolated. Also, he
is asymptomatic (no symptoms at all).
Again, I have three other FIV (definite FIV) boys, but they are all
healthy, unlike FeLV, many cats dont necessary die from FIV, but die
with FIV  so its hard to tell from their heath condition
sometimes. But because of the inconsistency, he is still alone, which makes me
feel very badly. I should probably do another test and see what happens soon.



Anyway, I guess I have to do the same thing for Buddha (run
western blot and another ELISA, and possibly IFA and DNA test  I had to anesthetize
her to draw blood last time, and probably have to do so again, which I hate to
do, but, I really cant merge her with other kitties without knowing for
sure of the results because of the risks to other cats anyway, I am
writing this to you in case you have any insights on this situation.



Unlike FeLV virus, once you have the FIV virus in the body, the
virus tends to stay  so once its positive, s/he will always be
positive  so inconsistency of the results (from positive to negative)
comes from false test result, thats what I read and heard.



Everyone, regardless, please pray for Buddha that she does
not have FIV  I really wanted her to merge with the cats in the main
house  which will make it difficult otherwise. Again, thank you for listening, and I
appreciate any advise or input.



Thank you.



Hideyo

RE: Tiger - CLS

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Sheila,
I know that Tiger and Tip are with you  I have felt the same way when
Suzi passed  and I knew it was not my imagination.



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005
4:38 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Tiger - CLS



Thank you. I feel Tiger and Tip with
me. When I call the roll at meal time I still call there names and it seems
they are right here purring, rubbing my legs. They were always the first to
come for meals. I'm so sorry about Falldown and I-Bad and everyone who has lost
a baby. It is never easy to let go, but thank God for everyone on this list it
helps so much to know there are wonderful people out there that shares our
grief. I'll be praying for you and your babies. Love, Sheila






image001.jpg

RE: OT:FIV false positive?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you for responding. Theoretically, yes, unless there do have a
bite wound by the positive cat, the FIV should not be
transmitted easily to negative cats. I
also read research where they mix positives and negatives where they did not
see apparent fighting or biting, and some % of the negatives became positives
after a several months - 



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Del Daniels
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 3:07 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:FIV false
positive?





I'm not very up to date on reading
the posts lately so may easily have missed something ... but most of us have
our FIV+ mixed with our negatives unless the positive is aggressive since it
usually takes a deep bite to pass the disease. FeLV+ is more contagious
and not as many are mixed with negatives. Is there another reason to
separate her if she is FIV+?











Del







- Original Message - 





From: Hideyo Yamamoto 





To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org






Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:59 AM





Subject: OT:FIV
false positive?









Buddha (Squeekie)s blood work
came back from a lab  when we did ELISA in house clinic test, she was
negative on FeLV/FIV  then, Antech lab did the virus test again on ELISA
(by mistake since I did not ask them to do so, but they did it anyway by
mistake), but on their ELISA test from the lab, the FIV came back as positive.



I had a similar thing happened to
one my other kitties, Rikki  when I first rescued him, the ELISA (both
in house test and antech lab) came back as negative, 2 months later, we
re-tested him again, and the antech came back as positive on FIV (did not do in
house at this time)  but I have always felt (just a feeling) that it was
false positive for some reason, but the meantime, he was isolated from others
just in case  and two or three
years later (which is sometime last year), I tested him again, and this time,
in ELISA, both in house clinic and Antech lab came back as Negative, and
ELISA/Western Blot by Cornell came back as negative, but DNA test through
another lab came back as Positive  which was very confusing. And I was supposed to send it again to UC
Davis for another DNA test as recommended by Cornell  but never have
 so he is still isolated. Also,
he is asymptomatic (no symptoms at all).
Again, I have three other FIV (definite FIV) boys, but they are all
healthy, unlike FeLV, many cats dont necessary die from FIV, but die
with FIV  so its hard to tell from their heath condition
sometimes. But because of the inconsistency, he is still alone, which makes me
feel very badly. I should probably do another test and see what happens soon.



Anyway, I guess I have to do the
same thing for Buddha (run western blot and another ELISA, and possibly IFA and
DNA test  I had to anesthetize her to draw blood last time, and probably
have to do so again, which I hate to do, but, I really cant merge her
with other kitties without knowing for sure of the results because of the risks
to other cats anyway, I am writing this to you in case you have any
insights on this situation.



Unlike FeLV virus, once you have the
FIV virus in the body, the virus tends to stay  so once its
positive, s/he will always be positive  so inconsistency of the results
(from positive to negative) comes from false test result, thats what I
read and heard.



Everyone, regardless, please pray
for Buddha that she does not have FIV  I really wanted her to merge with
the cats in the main house  which will make it difficult otherwise. Again, thank you for listening, and I
appreciate any advise or input.



Thank you.



Hideyo

RE: OT:FIV false positive?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I will try to find it - it was an official experimental study done by
someone (whom of course I can't remember)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive?

hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing
non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against
everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that
all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current
info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually
doing research, i'm open)

thanks!

MC

RE: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I have to agree with you wholeheartedly at all points!!

I have three definite FIV boy cats - they are so healthy! I rescued
all of them three or four years ago, and they are the chubbiest, and
happiest cats of all.  One developed Diabetes a couple of years ago, and
I almost lost him after dental cleaning surgery due to an reaction from
anesthesia, and he just laid in the room for two weeks with no food (I
had to give him fluid everyday, and I couldn't force feed him as he
would spit them back) - my vet thought that I should give up and
euthanize him, but I couldn't, and my holistic vet thought that I should
try a bit longer - and in two weeks, he stood up and started eating (I
cried so hard when I saw the miracle happen) - and now he is a chubby
happy boy (his name is Leo) -

Since I haven't experienced with any serious symptoms with my FIV cats,
I just don't know if I should make a big deal out of it at all - I have
two other possibly FIV (possibly, but least likely) kitties, but they
are both asymptomatic as well - they are also chubby and very healthy!

I am waiting for Western Blot Result from Antech for Squeekie(Buddah)'s
result to see if it will confirm their ELISA result - and I am praying
and and feeling that it will come back as a negative (I am crossing my
finger - and please pray for her also)- 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:05 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!

oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIV
really seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes...
seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, the
HEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays and
ferals, were the FIVs.

three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the cats
had been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way of
knowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-series
sets of shots to set the immunity. as you may or may not know (i
didn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infected
grain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough.

TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroic
medical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived,
so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got the
distemper--not one. we saw similar results with less serious
infections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn't
get it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk about
just dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into the
general population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the only
consistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpes
viruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysine
dropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stage
symptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases,  FIV cats
die of old age before they appear

we call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats are
former toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vet
suggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostly
big old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselves
evaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary are
the FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets who
know nothing about FIV--they can't possibly be sick! exactly

they lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing go
fish, and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring the
food into the room and they say, um, could you bring that bowl a
little closer to ME, please? they are the lovingest bunch of cats in
the world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls
(mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking their
heads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of the
sanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because they
were just too irresistable.

i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august to
something totally unrelated to FIV.

many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, because
it's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite as
deeply as needed to transmit the disease disappears. (in the rare
cases an FIV remains aggressive, pulling the canine teeth makes it
impossible to inflict a deep enough bite, according to one vet
source.)

the sentence about the FIV not affecting their life expectancy is the
key--as one of my vets said last time i was there (and she was NOT
good about FIV before working with us, tho she now has house
FIVs)--FIV cats die  WITH FIV, not FROM  it.

and three important things to remember: 

FIV was recognized/defined/whatever as a particular, separate entity
during the early years of the HIV 

RE: OT: Mysterious condition

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Nope and nope. (I don't think I see flea at all)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:00 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Mysterious condition

How about flea allergy? Also, have you tried changing his diet?

At 10:50 AM 3/30/2005, you wrote:
Hi, list, I need your advice -
I have a boy kitty, OB who is about 10 years old, and I rescued him a 
couple of years ago.  For the past couple of months, I noticed that he
has 
been losing weights (especially hind legs area) also his hair coat was 
getting really thin the bottom half of his body - I did first not worry

about it, he has a really good appetite - but all of sudden, I realized

that he could have hyperthyroid due to the symptoms I see in him (drink

lots of water, too), and also could be kidney problem or 
diabetes.  Anyway, I took him to the vet (he also had an ear infection
- 
really stinky in his left ear) and did the blood work - and it all came

back very normal including T3 and T4 test, and liver and kidney
functions 
are also fine.  I asked about if caner is a possibility - she says it
is, 
but do have to do an X-ray to see -

But very mysterious - he acts fine - but I am very concerned about him 
losing weight and hair - any idea or insight on his condition?

RE: OT: Mysterious condition

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Nina, please never worry about me taking offense of your advise - I know
exactly where you are coming - it breaks my heart to see Ginger alone
with no friend, too. 

I just got a message from my holistic vet and he said that he has
something I can try for OB homeopathically - I hope he will get better.

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:24 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Mysterious condition

Hey Hideyo,
First of all, I hope you didn't take offense at my rant about 
mixing/isolation. It's an emotional subject for me, (list members are 
probably asking, and what isn't an emotional subject for Nina?). I know 
that you have a very different situation at your house, and that you 
love each and every one of your babies and do everything in your power 
to ensure they have the best life possible.

I have an old-man feral that was displaying similar symptoms as OB. His 
condition was deteriorating rapidly and I sadly suspected his days were 
numbered. I thought his teeth might be giving him problems with the 
kibble I feed the ferals, so I put him on a high quality canned and 
crossed my fingers. He bounced back after only a couple of weeks on the 
better diet and is looking quite spry now. I know it wasn't his teeth, 
because I've seen him grazing on the kibble since his recovery. I hope 
the solution for OB is something as simple as a diet change.
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

 Hi, list, I need your advice -

 I have a boy kitty, OB who is about 10 years old, and I rescued him a 
 couple of years ago. For the past couple of months, I noticed that he 
 has been losing weights (especially hind legs area) also his hair coat

 was getting really thin the bottom half of his body - I did first not 
 worry about it, he has a really good appetite - but all of sudden, I 
 realized that he could have hyperthyroid due to the symptoms I see in 
 him (drink lots of water, too), and also could be kidney problem or 
 diabetes. Anyway, I took him to the vet (he also had an ear infection 
 - really stinky in his left ear) and did the blood work - and it all 
 came back very normal including T3 and T4 test, and liver and kidney 
 functions are also fine. I asked about if caner is a possibility - she

 says it is, but do have to do an X-ray to see -

 But very mysterious - he acts fine - but I am very concerned about him

 losing weight and hair - any idea or insight on his condition?

RE: Mysterious condition

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, I will ask my vet to see if
this is a possibility for OB  thank you!



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005
12:54 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Mysterious condition





Cushings Disease? - Thining of hair...loss of
weight, excessive appetite  thirst, potting or drooping of
bellysagging of face (later symptoms)lumps and bumps -often benign
appearing on body, the animal seeks out cool spaces to layeven when you're
freezing...











My dog was recently diagnoised with it...apparently it
occurs when the body produces too much prednazone. I'm sorry I forget
exactly how the vet found it, outside of the symptoms I listed above and subtle
changes in her bloodwork numbers.











It can be treated...not cured, and the treatment is
very expensive unfortunately. I can't give too much more info. as I'm
still studying it myself.











I hope you find out what's wrong. Good luck.





T

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005
10:50 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: Mysterious condition







Hi, list, I need your advice
 

I have a boy kitty, OB
who is about 10 years old, and I rescued him a couple of years ago. For the past couple of months, I noticed that
he has been losing weights (especially hind legs area) also his hair coat was
getting really thin the bottom half of his body  I did first not worry
about it, he has a really good appetite  but all of sudden, I realized
that he could have hyperthyroid due to the symptoms I see in him (drink lots of
water, too), and also could be kidney problem or diabetes. Anyway, I took him to the vet (he also had an
ear infection  really stinky in his left ear) and did the blood work
 and it all came back very normal including T3 and T4 test, and liver
and kidney functions are also fine. I
asked about if caner is a possibility  she says it is, but do have to do
an X-ray to see 



But very mysterious  he acts fine  but I am
very concerned about him losing weight and hair  any idea or insight on
his condition?



This email and any files transmitted with it are
confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you
should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 









Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try
our new resources site! 

RE: Mysterious condition

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I will!
Thank you, Barbara!



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barb Moermond
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005
1:44 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Mysterious condition





wow, I just can never believe how cruel our species
can be. You give OB extra scritchin' and snugglin' today for me.

Hideyo Yamamoto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Thanks, Kerry  I
hope so, too. When I rescued from a very
irresponsible (in my mind they were) people  who would just leave him
outside all the time with no food and no water and would never let him in the
house because he pee-ed in the house a couple of times  I used to find
him sleeping behind the bush, sitting, but closing his eyes  because it
was just too cold to be comfortable for him (also they live in a neighborhood
where lots of coyotes are, and they kill cats)
- they used to leave a garage door just wide enough so that he
wouldnt be able to get in (I used to see him trying to get inside the
garage, and he couldnt)  it was very sad but anyway, I
promised to OB that I would provide him a better life  so I hope that he
will get better soon!!!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Wednesday,
March 30, 2005 11:57 AM
To:
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Mysterious condition





Hideyo,
I'm sorry to be of no help as Idon't know what OB
could have as you've ruled out hyperthyroid but I hope you succeed in finding
out - or he gets better, in any case. He's a lucky little fellow to have you
looking out for him. Sending out positive vibes for a fast diagnosis and cure
for OB, love  hugs, Kerry



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Wednesday,
March 30, 2005 10:50 AM
To:
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: Mysterious condition

Hi, list, I need your advice 


I have a boy kitty, OB
who is about 10 years old, and I rescued him a couple of years ago. For the past couple of months, I noticed that
he has been losing weights (especially hind legs area) also his hair coat was
getting really thin the bottom half of his body  I did first not worry
about it, he has a really good appetite  but all of sudden, I realized
that he could have hyperthyroid due to the symptoms I see in him (drink lots of
water, too), and also could be kidney problem or diabetes. Anyway, I took him to the vet (he also had an
ear infection  really stinky in his left ear) and did the blood work
 and it all came back very normal including T3 and T4 test, and liver
and kidney functions are also fine. I
asked about if caner is a possibility  she says it is, but do have to do
an X-ray to see 



But very mysterious  he acts
fine  but I am very concerned about him losing weight and hair 
any idea or insight on his condition?

This email and any files transmitted with it are
confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you
should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.





Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous







Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try
our new resources site! 

RE: my cat is not having bowel movements (jayden)

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

How about a little bit of mineral oil 
when I was raising a kitten since she was one day old  there was a time
that she did not poop over a week  and per my holistic vet recommendation,
I used mineral oil (after trying with syllium husk for a few days)  it worked
like a miracle  it came right out!
Also  I had a similar problem with Oreo and JoJo after their disc
surgery and it worked right away for both of them as well!.



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barb Moermond
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005
2:22 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: re:my cat is not having
bowel movements (jayden)





I'm surprised that the canned pumpkin didn't
work. Have you tried hairball ointment? Let us know what the vet
says today. I know some people do use plain old vaseline for hairball
control instead of laxotone or some other specific product.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



hello list 





i need some advice... my son is urinating okay but no
stool at all in the last 3 days. i need to know if vaseline (white petroleum
jelly) is okay for a cat? just a little on the paw too loosen the stool. Ive
tryed pumpkin,olive oil and butter?? please email me back i dont know what else
to try???/?







Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous







Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try
our new resources site! 

RE: For Sue RE: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued and amcaring forDeirdre (FELV+)

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Anything which include any artificial preservative, especially, BHT and
BHA should be avoided, if you know what they are, and what they are used
for, there's no way that we can feed to our babies - especially FeLV+
babies - 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie,
Kerry N.
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 12:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: For Sue RE: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued and
amcaring forDeirdre (FELV+)

Hi Sue
Re your vet's assessment of Iams, I honestly don't think fine is good
enough -- and especially for FeLV kitties with their severely
compromised immune systems. And no disrespect to your vet, but many
vets--including my own--have never led me to believe they know or care
that much about nutrition for healthy cats never mind FELV cats. (I'd
say the same for a lot of doctors re human nutrition.) 
Iams dry has e.g. chicken by-products, ie, all the chicken parts that
human carnivores would not wish to eat, and corn filler and cellulose,
and since the labels don't say no artificial preservatives, flavors or
colors I have to presume it has those too. I used to feed my cats dry
Iams out of ignorance -- I didn't know there was a whole bunch of
better-quality brands out there. The Wellness dry that I now buy
specifically states on the package a list of things they do not use, and
the list includes meat by-products, corn, cellulose, and artificial
preservatives, flavors or colors. 
Kerry


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sue Feldbusch
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:15 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued and am caring
forDeirdre (FELV+)


I use IAMS hard food and my vet said it's fine for felv+ kitty's.

From: MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued and am caring 
forDeirdre (FELV+)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:00:32 -0600

Hi Kathleen
I'm sorry I haven't been able to reply to your email till now---welcome
to the group, though I'm very sorry for the reason you've had to find
us.
You won't find a more informed, supportive, caring, wonderful bunch of
people than this one. They've been a total godsend for me!
It's always a shock to discover a kitty has felv. I'm glad Deirdre has
such a caring mom.
I discovered in December 2003 that 5 of the 6 rescue kitties I took in
were felv positive.
I had to go on a crash course, so to speak, in dealing with FeLV cats
and I found that their diet (not surprisingly) is SO important. My most
precious references are this wonderful group and Anitra Frazier's The
Natural Cat Book.
Here's a copy of what I've sent out in the past with the salient
points:

~~Give only filtered water.
~~Feed only high grade/human grade pet food. That is NOT Iams or
Science
diet-type, which has nasty by-products, and which I now know, by no
means represents the gold standard in pet food, but the much higher
quality brands without by-products, additives or preservatives, eg
Wellness, Innova, Petguard, that you find in the independent pet stores
(you won't find these high-quality foods in the Petco/Petsmart chains).
I give mine Petguard wet food (from Wholefoods) and Wellness wet and
dry
food morning and evening.
~~Add these supplements morning and evening to Deirdre's wet food, to
boost her immune system:  a 500mg L-Lysin pill (grind first), easily
available from pharmacies/healthfood stores, 1/4 tsp feline enzymes, 1
teaspoon of 'Vita-Mineral Mix'  (I'll send you the details separately).
Also, gradually, as I was able to obtain them (not difficult as it
turned out, everything is available in health food stores or Internet)
I
added most of the remainder of the supplements Frazier recommends:
CoQ10, bioplasma, olive oil, cod liver oil and alfalfa (I'll send you
details re amounts). And I give them interferon. Got it thru Walgreen's
(eventually) on my vet's prescription, and he made it up for me.
You will get tons more advice and help from others on the list!
Good luck, Kathleen, and a big hug for Deirdre---she's such a lucky
kitty to have found you! Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Gittel
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:02 PM
To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: I'm new and green.I've rescued and am caring for Deirdre
(FELV+)


I'd be grateful for any and all suggestions you have for diet,
vitamins, and care for Deirdre. I fed her outside and created a
shelter for her in my shed for 1 year when she first appeared under my
evergreen tree eating birdseed. She was about 6 months old then. I
trapped her this January 1st and had her spayed, de-flead, de-wormed
and got her all her shots. She was feral. During the last 3 weeks, she
finally began
to get friendly and is now a total mush melon. I love her. She 

RE: my cat is not having bowel movements (jayden)

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Which by the way all the major brand food (recommended by vet) include -
Hill's science, I think Iam, too (but not Eucanoba -it's manufactured by
Iam)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kat
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:30 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: my cat is not having bowel movements (jayden)


Be careful of the mineral oil - mix it well into food, no puddles.
My vet has said that cats don't smell the oil and can inhale it,
causing
respiratory distress.
Kat (Mew Jersey)


On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:24:50 -0700
 From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: RE: my cat is not having bowel movements  (jayden)

 How about a little bit of mineral oil - when I was raising a kitten
 since she was one day old - there was a time that she did not poop
over
 a week - and per my holistic vet recommendation, I used mineral oil
 (after trying with syllium husk for a few days) - it worked like a
 miracle - it came right out!  Also - I had a similar problem with Oreo
 and JoJo after their disc surgery and it worked right away for both of
 them as well!.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb
Moermond
 Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:22 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: re:my cat is not having bowel movements (jayden)

 I'm surprised that the canned pumpkin didn't work.  Have you tried
 hairball ointment?  Let us know what the vet says today.  I know some
 people do use plain old vaseline for hairball control instead of
 laxotone or some other specific product.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  hello list
 i need some advice... my son is urinating okay but no stool at all in
 the last 3 days. i need to know if vaseline (white petroleum jelly) is
 okay for a cat? just a little on the paw too loosen the stool. Ive
tryed
 pumpkin,olive oil and butter?? please email me back i dont know what
 else to try???/?


 Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito

 My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely
 living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile.
 - Anonymous
   _

 Do you Yahoo!?
 Yahoo! Small Business - Try

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=31637/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resourc
 es/  our new resources site!

RE: For Sue RE: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued andamcaring forDeirdre (FELV+)

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

All the major brand (recommended by vet) include BHA and BHT - such as
Hill's science, and IAM (not Eubanoba though)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hideyo
Yamamoto
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:28 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: For Sue RE: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued
andamcaring forDeirdre (FELV+)

Anything which include any artificial preservative, especially, BHT and
BHA should be avoided, if you know what they are, and what they are used
for, there's no way that we can feed to our babies - especially FeLV+
babies - 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie,
Kerry N.
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 12:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: For Sue RE: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued and
amcaring forDeirdre (FELV+)

Hi Sue
Re your vet's assessment of Iams, I honestly don't think fine is good
enough -- and especially for FeLV kitties with their severely
compromised immune systems. And no disrespect to your vet, but many
vets--including my own--have never led me to believe they know or care
that much about nutrition for healthy cats never mind FELV cats. (I'd
say the same for a lot of doctors re human nutrition.) 
Iams dry has e.g. chicken by-products, ie, all the chicken parts that
human carnivores would not wish to eat, and corn filler and cellulose,
and since the labels don't say no artificial preservatives, flavors or
colors I have to presume it has those too. I used to feed my cats dry
Iams out of ignorance -- I didn't know there was a whole bunch of
better-quality brands out there. The Wellness dry that I now buy
specifically states on the package a list of things they do not use, and
the list includes meat by-products, corn, cellulose, and artificial
preservatives, flavors or colors. 
Kerry


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sue Feldbusch
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:15 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued and am caring
forDeirdre (FELV+)


I use IAMS hard food and my vet said it's fine for felv+ kitty's.

From: MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: for Kathleen-- I'm new and green.I've rescued and am caring 
forDeirdre (FELV+)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:00:32 -0600

Hi Kathleen
I'm sorry I haven't been able to reply to your email till now---welcome
to the group, though I'm very sorry for the reason you've had to find
us.
You won't find a more informed, supportive, caring, wonderful bunch of
people than this one. They've been a total godsend for me!
It's always a shock to discover a kitty has felv. I'm glad Deirdre has
such a caring mom.
I discovered in December 2003 that 5 of the 6 rescue kitties I took in
were felv positive.
I had to go on a crash course, so to speak, in dealing with FeLV cats
and I found that their diet (not surprisingly) is SO important. My most
precious references are this wonderful group and Anitra Frazier's The
Natural Cat Book.
Here's a copy of what I've sent out in the past with the salient
points:

~~Give only filtered water.
~~Feed only high grade/human grade pet food. That is NOT Iams or
Science
diet-type, which has nasty by-products, and which I now know, by no
means represents the gold standard in pet food, but the much higher
quality brands without by-products, additives or preservatives, eg
Wellness, Innova, Petguard, that you find in the independent pet stores
(you won't find these high-quality foods in the Petco/Petsmart chains).
I give mine Petguard wet food (from Wholefoods) and Wellness wet and
dry
food morning and evening.
~~Add these supplements morning and evening to Deirdre's wet food, to
boost her immune system:  a 500mg L-Lysin pill (grind first), easily
available from pharmacies/healthfood stores, 1/4 tsp feline enzymes, 1
teaspoon of 'Vita-Mineral Mix'  (I'll send you the details separately).
Also, gradually, as I was able to obtain them (not difficult as it
turned out, everything is available in health food stores or Internet)
I
added most of the remainder of the supplements Frazier recommends:
CoQ10, bioplasma, olive oil, cod liver oil and alfalfa (I'll send you
details re amounts). And I give them interferon. Got it thru Walgreen's
(eventually) on my vet's prescription, and he made it up for me.
You will get tons more advice and help from others on the list!
Good luck, Kathleen, and a big hug for Deirdre---she's such a lucky
kitty to have found you! Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Gittel
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:02 PM
To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: I'm new and green.I've rescued and am caring for Deirdre
(FELV+)


I'd be grateful for any and all suggestions you have for diet,
vitamins, and care

RE: Loki is at rest

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Dear Steve. I am so very sorry  I cant
stop crying reading your email, and thinking of Loki. Its just way too difficult to
deal with, too
painful to live with. I wish I could find better words to make you feel
better. But I will be morning with
you, Steve. Please know though,
Lokis soul is still there, right besides you. 



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Williams
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005
1:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Loki is at rest





Mylast
little love is gone. I had to put him to sleep late yesterday.











For the
past two weeks, my every waking moment and thought has been for and
aboutLoki. I did put him on Prednisone a week ago and it initial seemed
to help, but very quickly it was as before. I then called the vet and we
doubled his dosage. Once again, it initially seemed to help--though he
seemed drugged this time--then quickly faded to his former
uncomfortable state. At no time, did the Pred noticeably shrink
thelarge tumor impeding his little lungs. 











I had
been letting him outside to wander in the tall spring grass (weeds) all around
the house. He loved it and it was agreat distraction and
wonderfulsensory stimulation for him. If Loki did not have these
wonderful days, I may have PTS sooner, as the nights were uncomfortable for
him--he could no longer lay on his side and his lungs were pumping hard all the
time.











Yesterday,
too many changes took place: He was not enjoying the out-of-doors like he had
been, I did not see him drink wateror eat his dry food, he didn't want to
bend down to eat his chicken baby food treat (had to hold it up for him), and
for the first time, he had a slightly open mouth. At most other times
during the day, he was lying or sitting with labored breathing and looking very
tired. I felt it was the right time to stop subjecting Loki's system to
new measures, so I made the agonizing decision.











My 10
month, 10 day old Loki went peacefully and quickly and is now buried next to
his sister under their oak tree.











My
beautiful brown/dark gray tiger kitty had a special personality, quite
different, but just as wonderful as his orange tabby sister Leeloo. Both
were chosen from the litter my sister and nieces were raising because their
stars seemed toburn very bright. These kittens--thesmallest
of the litter--had unusually beautiful little souls. Loki also had a
smell, as his sister did; not the perfume my girl kitty Leeloo had, but the
smoky earthy scent of a boy kitty. Perhaps like air smells during the
first rain on dry soil. One could say his scent tended a tiny bit toward
chocolate and even cinnamon, like one lister noticed of her boy kitty. I
will miss him jumping up to lay at the back of my neck and bending
aroundto rub his face against mine, purring all the while;coming to
lay on his pillow at the side of my computer to be near me; and turning over to
rub his back on the floor and to get his belly rubbed.













I will
be morning his loss for a long time... I can't see a time when I will
stop. I know my pain will ease eventually and I know there will soon be a
time that I will no longer be exhausted from crying. I loved my little
Loki like there was no tomorrow.











Steve

RE: OT: need advise again

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

One of my corona virus positive cats, Simon
who is about 7 or 8 years stopped eating since last Friday night all of sudden and
he started hiding all of sudden  with all of my corona virus positive
cats with unknown cause of illness, the first place I go is usually oh
my gosh, its FIP  and I freak out.



Anyway, yesterday I took him to the vet, I
was worried how we were going to diagnose him since he is sort of feral and
never held him, but he did so well.
He just wanted to hide in my jacket, but did very well. Anyway, he did not have a fever which is
a good thing and there was no abnormality in tummy area as far as the vet could
tell. His inside mouth looked
pretty good, too. The blood work came back all normal except that he had a very
high total bilirubin of 4.6 (the normal range is between 0.1 and 0.4) 
any other liver/kidney measurement was normal. He did have higher protein level with
higher globulin  but I also know that it can be caused by dehydration,
too. But the vet was not sure what
was causing him an illness. 



After a shot of penicillin and I also gave
him 100ml of fluid, he seems to be feeling a little bit better since he was not
hiding this morning and even went outside for a while last night. He also tried to eat a bit. Any idea whats wrong with him?



Regardless, please pray that he will get
better soon  he is already getting skinny (in his hip and hind leg area)
and am worried.

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 4:13 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: UPDATE ON THOR





I have a cat that does that because of allergies
(ears). He is negative and usually gets pred. when it happens.











tonya

Cherie A Gabbert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Hi All





Ok Thor ate some yesterday and now is back to not
eating, it is so spuratic I do not know what to think. There is no blood
colored discharge from his mouth at all today, I was thinking maybe he is
loosing a tooth, but he is still too young he is only 14 weeks old, I am just
taking him day by day now.











Amber my FeLV positive also seems to be having an ear
problem, she scratched it so muchthe hair is gone and now there is a
scabchecked for ear mites, she is clean, checked for ear infection, again
she is clean, any thoughts?











Thanks all





Cherie

RE: OT: need advise again

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Kerry. Simon and I appreciate your thought very
much. If he doesnt seem to
want to eat again tonight  I will definitely try to assist feed him  The vet gave him some V-B shot,
hoping that it might help his appetite  but I will try the cat nip also. I first thought it was impossible to
give him fluid (not knowing how feral he is  shame on me, I now have had
him for 3 years, and still did not know), but I put a carrier in the bathroom
and opened the carrier, and he just sat there without resisting to it, as I
gave him fluid and some vitamin liquid with syringe  

Its hard not to know whats
bothering them, and I wish I could tell so that I can do everything I can to
make him feel better.



Again, thank you so much, Kerry, you are
so kind, as always.



Hideyo



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kerry MacKenzie
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 5:47 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: need advise again





Dear Hideyo





I don't have enough experience to know what may be
wrong, but I am sending lots of positive healing vibes for Simon. Are you
assist feedinghim? Or trying an appetite stimulant? Catnip isone
appetite stimulant I believe, and I know there are others that have been
mentioned on the list. I'm sure you know and are doing all this already. Also,
if he doesn't improve, unless you totally totally trust your vet, I
wouldsee another vet and hope to get a diagnosis. Sorry I can't offer any
suggestions as to what it may be, Hideyo but I'm sure others will pitch in. Big
hugs to the little sweetheart, hope he continues to improve ~~love and hugs to
you too,Kerry

















- Original Message - 







From: Hideyo Yamamoto 





To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org






Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 5:46 PM





Subject: RE: OT:
need advise again









One of my corona virus
positive cats, Simon who is about 7 or 8 years stopped eating since last Friday
night all of sudden and he started hiding all of sudden  with all of my
corona virus positive cats with unknown cause of illness, the first place I go
is usually oh my gosh, its FIP  and I freak out.



Anyway, yesterday I took
him to the vet, I was worried how we were going to diagnose him since he is
sort of feral and never held him, but he did so well. He just wanted to hide in my jacket, but
did very well. Anyway, he did not
have a fever which is a good thing and there was no abnormality in tummy area
as far as the vet could tell. His
inside mouth looked pretty good, too. The blood work came back all normal
except that he had a very high total bilirubin of 4.6 (the normal range is
between 0.1 and 0.4)  any other liver/kidney measurement was
normal. He did have higher protein
level with higher globulin  but I also know that it can be caused by
dehydration, too. But the vet was
not sure what was causing him an illness.




After a shot of
penicillin and I also gave him 100ml of fluid, he seems to be feeling a little
bit better since he was not hiding this morning and even went outside for a
while last night. He also tried to
eat a bit. Any idea whats
wrong with him?



Regardless, please pray
that he will get better soon  he is already getting skinny (in his hip
and hind leg area) and am worried.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 4:13 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: UPDATE ON THOR





I have a cat that does that because of allergies
(ears). He is negative and usually gets pred. when it happens.











tonya

Cherie A Gabbert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Hi All





Ok Thor ate some yesterday and now is back to not
eating, it is so spuratic I do not know what to think. There is no blood
colored discharge from his mouth at all today, I was thinking maybe he is
loosing a tooth, but he is still too young he is only 14 weeks old, I am just
taking him day by day now.











Amber my FeLV positive also seems to be having an ear
problem, she scratched it so muchthe hair is gone and now there is a
scabchecked for ear mites, she is clean, checked for ear infection, again
she is clean, any thoughts?











Thanks all





Cherie

FW: [feline leukimia] Greetings

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

This is
another message from another list person, could we help her? Since she is not on our list yet, please
respond to her directly to her email box with your responses. Thanks. 





B Hawkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






I just joined this list because I am fostering a
six month kitten that 
has been diagnosed with feline leukimia.
He's a wonderful little guy 
that I want very much to help out. So I am
searching for some ideas to 
improve the quality of his life.

It's a bit frustrating that I can't look at the
archive to search for 
some ideas. 

Becky Hawkins














Yahoo! Groups Links


 To
 visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/felineleukimia/
  
 To
 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 Your
 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
















Do you Yahoo!?
Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo!
Personals 

RE: need help - a negative, later positive - ?

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I hear you, Susan. I started out
only one cat 12 years ago, and now have over 50  and it can be
overwhelming sometimes especially when some one gets sick. When my Suzi
died, I was so sad that and all I wanted to do was to cry and hide, and not to
do anything  but I really couldnt. Because I have all other
kitties and doggies who depend on me to take care of, and I had to keep
working, and that can get difficult sometimes. They all look worried, and
look sad when I am, too.



Anyway, but I often think of ones who are
out there in the wild world more than the ones I have and thats why I
ended up so many animals (and thats is probably my problem) There
are just so many out there though, I decided last year that I wouldnt
take in any more animals, but then , I met Ginger, and I met, Tabitha (Tabithas
old owner used to leave Tabitha in a small carrier with no food or no water, at
an outdoor upstairs porch no roof during freezing night  the owner did
not want her to be inside of the house because she pooped in the house 
can you believe this crazy lady? When I found her, she was pooping and
peeing in the carrier and was soaked with her own disposals  I couldnt
believe what I saw - ), and I rescued her.. then Oh-Oh (oh) and then, Squeekie
---



I just dont know what to do when a
situation arises like this, but to take them in











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Susan Loesch
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005
11:47 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: need help - a
negative, later positive - ?







You're right, it is the
same way. I hope our vet will go ahead with the paperwork - and maybe we
can find a way to come up with some $$. I sometimes wonder if
it would be better to take in fewer animals and be able to concentrate more
time and money both on their care - but then along comes another for whom we
are the only chance - and - what do you do.

Hi Susan,
I think you're doing a wonderful thing, helping as many, as best you 
can. Thanks to you and all those who take on so much. What else could 
anyone ask for? Ah, a perfect world... 

The cost of the feline interferon is high, $250 for a full 5 day 
treatment. Yes, that will exclude so many from it's benefits, but isn't 
that the way it is in the human world as well? I'm hoping the costs 
will come down, maybe when it's finally approved. 
Nina


Susan Loesch wrote:

 You know, I tend to wish that, too. Gloria and I are part of the same 
 rescue group and we both are really concerned that this issue has come 
 up with one of our cats. 
 
 Several years ago I was so freaked out by FIV and Feleuk that when 
 Gloria and I first met over a couple of cats who'd always been indoor 
 who needed a foster home - and, I know now, didn't even need a test - 
 I wouldn't take them until tested. Thanks to what I have learned both 
 from Gloria and from the group, I don't get all that concerned any more. 
 
 If I didn't have rescue group fosters I'd let my negatives, 
 vaccinated, mix with my positives. I now have a feline leukemia 
 suite' at my house and have room for about 10 positives. They are 
 separated from the rest of my house only by a screen door - which 
 wouldn't be there if I didn't foster. When I have room I also take 
 really elderly cats in and usually put them in with the feleuks 
 because it is a small, less iimposing group to get used to. I figure 
 that old age will kill them long before feleuk ever would. I have too 
 many to go all-out on expensive treatments - but thanks to our rescue 
 group's vet, who makes everything he can do available to us for very 
 little to no cost, they have great care. Like someone else said, I do 
 subq, some interferon - good basic care, and when that no longer 
 works, I let them go -- after as long and happy a life as I can give 
 them. Would I like to do more? Sure - but like all the rest of you 
 guys, I just have to do the best I can given the circumstances. Ah, 
 in a perfect world...things would be different -- but in a perfect 
 world we wouldn't have feleuk to deal with.
 
 I don't know what I was expecting the feline interferon to cost - but 
 the amount surprised me - our vet is willing to do all the paperwork 
 and run a study using it - but the cost may stop us.

 but negatives need to be retested too, because they may have been
 recently exposed. I just wish now that shelters didn't test at
 all

 */TenHouseCats <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

 bottom line seems to be that ANY cat that tests positive for FeLV
 needs to be retested in 90 days the problem, of course, is
 that
 what rescue/shelter has the holding capacity for this

 i've been thinking about this for awhile--whether folks with
 confirmed
 FeLVs would be willing/able to work with rescues and serve as
 foster
 parents during the waiting period. as we know, many cats will
 retest
 as negative if given the chance, but the panic induced by the term
 FeLV makes it hard for rescues to 

OT: help me, please

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Nina, may I have a phone number of the animal spiritual person
you mentioned to me about before? There is a boy kitty who has been missing
since last Saturday he is a stray kitty, and has been injured  me and my
neighbor, Suzan caught him once with a fish net when we found our his raw
looking scar, but let him go after a couple of days as we thought the scar
looked better  which was about three weeks ago, and Susan told me that
he came in Susans house and slept all day (which he does sometimes) and
went out again, but have not seen him ever since, which is unusual as he has
been hanging out at Susans yard almost every day  she mentioned
to me that he looked kinda skinny and his scar looked bloody again, and now I
am really worried and I wanted to talk to this person to see if I can find out
about the boy.



Everyone - , please pray that he is doing ok and the boy
will be back to Susans yard soon with no problem. I was planning to
take him to a vet next week  but I am so worried right now.



Hideyo

RE: Brissle Update - Good News and Bad News

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Hi, Kyle,
Is there any way that you can get a second opinion?  I feel that
starting with chemo without confirmation of the cause being a cancer is
also a risky for your kitty, I also suspected that my Simon and OB might
have a cancer, and my vet recommended ultrasound (preferable) or X-ray
to see if there are any indications of cancer - if she doesn't have a
cancer, she can get very sick from chemo, too.

And again, I don't know your kitty's condition right now, but if she is
not acting sick, could you wait and run another blood work in a few
weeks to see what happens before you start with chemo to see if anything
will change?  I just feel it's a bit premature suggestion on your vet's
to suggest chemo just judging from the blood work -

I just know that their CBC and chemistry panel change on a daily basis.
I had a cat one time whose HCT was 13 (he did not have FeLK), and did
not know why it was so low - but in a couple of weeks, it went back to
normal on his own - no one knew what was causing it - but it happens. 

I will be praying for your kitty, Kyle.

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 5:04 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Brissle Update - Good News and Bad News

S**t, Kyle,
Oh man, I can't even come up with anything else to say.  Why does your 
vet suspect cancer?  She's acting fine?  The WBC is indicative of 
infection, right?  What is L/M?  Damn it Kyle, I feel like throwing a 
tantrum.
Nina

Melbeach wrote:

I just spoke with my vet after Brissle's blood tests from today. The
good
news: Her HCT is now 21.3%, up from 9.7% five weeks ago. The bad news:
Her WBC
is now 36.8, up from 17.3 (normal is 5.0 to 18.9). And her L/M is now
24.4
(normal is 1.5 to 7.8), up from 9.0. Both of these numbers are off the
chart.



My vet said that all signs point to cancer and he's strongly
recommending
sending Brissle to a specialist for chemo. He said that her glands felt
normal. He believes that the cancer is in the bone marrow. Everything
else
seems normal at this point. She's eating fine, energy is good.



I will probably go ahead with the chemo. Just wanted to hear what the
peanut
gallery thought. I'm also wondering how much it costs and how often you
have
to go.



Thanks!

-Kyle







  

RE: now my other dog has cancer!

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Dear Barbara,

I am so sorry to hear about your doggy,
Frasier.

Before you go, I would like you to read
the book suggested by Sally, which I also happen to love.

By Dr. Martin Goldstein  I think
that book is called natural healing of animals or something  but anyway,
he spends a significant section on cancer treatment for dogs  and he has
a very successful result from his treatment (holistic treatment)  its
a different approach from traditional approach of removing cancer
 as he believes that cancer is only a symptom of the real
problem  his treatment focuses on eliminating the real problem, even if
you remove the cancer, if you dont take care of real problem, the cancer
will come back, and sometimes bigger  in his treatment, cancer is no
longer death sentence  I was very encouraged to read the whole approach
and success result  he has a clinic in NY called smith ridge  and
he does a phone consultation.

Again it might not be something that you
are interested in  but I needed to share this information, because if my
dog got a cancer, he is one of the very first one that I would contact 
I am sending you the link to his website just in case.



I will pray for Frasier  



Love and hugs to you and Frasier



http://www.smithridge.com



Hideyo













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Barbara Lowe
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005
5:16 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT:now my other dog has
cancer!







Hi







You all will stay in my thoughts and your furbabies in my
prayers but right now I have to go to no mail and concentrate on my dog
Frasier. I took him in for heartworm testing and the vet noticed a small growth
on his side. the bad news is mast cell tumor the good news is it is not on a
bone. we are awaiting blood work results before operating. he believes he will
be able to get deep margins around the tumor so it will not spread.
Frasier is 11-12-13-who knows exactly-he was a pound rescue who was my dog
Maddy's best friend for a decade before she passed last summer from her cancer.
she was cancer free for 8 yrs after a mast cell tumor on a bone in her back
leg. 





i am so mad. I give him supplements, premium food yet too
many morons here on Long Island get those
hideous chemicals on their lawns so the stupid things will look green. 





oh well, off to join the caninecancer group again. damn.





Good luck to you all and please pet your kitties for
me.hopefully I will be back soon if only to lurk. so far clancy my only
positive left has been fine--knock on wood! Wish you all many years with your
furgangs.





regards





Barbara

RE: OT: help me, please

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Nina. I just tried to purchase
her time via her website, but for some reason I had a problem so I sent
her an email with my situation  is she good at responding right away on
email?



Hideyo











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005
4:47 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: help me, please





Oh Hideyo,
I hope your feral boy kitty is okay. I know what it's like to worry over
these guys, there's so little we can do for them! The first link is to
Patricia Schaller's site. She's helped me communicate with a favorite
feral before, (Lance). Once when he was limping, she told me it was
something stuck in his paw, (better news that a broken leg, but still could be
dangerous because of infection). The next night I watched him digging at
his paw and two days later he was walking fine! Another time, I hadn't
seen him for over a week. Very scary, because he's rarely gone more than
a night or two. Patricia contacted him and told me he'd been making the
rounds, apparently he has other humans that he visits! He is
gorgeous. She said to relax, he'll be back to check on me! Sure
enough, he showed up the next night.
http://www.petreader.com/index.html

This other AC is someone I found through my brief time on an AC list. Her
name is Gretchen Kunz. She recently helped me with questions I had for
Zevon and Gypsy. She's a wonderful lady, but she's more expensive than
Patricia, and I've never used her for ferals. I think she needs a picture
too. Here's her website:
http://www.animaltalker.com/

Good luck, hope he shows up soon,
Nina


Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: 

Nina, may I have a phone number of the animal
spiritual person you mentioned to me about before? There is a boy kitty
who has been missing since last Saturday he is a stray kitty, and has been
injured  me and my neighbor, Suzan caught him once with a fish net when
we found our his raw looking scar, but let him go after a couple of days
as we thought the scar looked better  which was about three weeks ago,
and Susan told me that he came in Susans house and slept all day (which
he does sometimes) and went out again, but have not seen him ever since, which
is unusual as he has been hanging out at Susans yard almost every day
 she mentioned to me that he looked kinda skinny and his scar looked
bloody again, and now I am really worried and I wanted to talk to this person
to see if I can find out about the boy.



Everyone - , please pray that he is doing ok and the
boy will be back to Susans yard soon with no problem. I was
planning to take him to a vet next week  but I am so worried right now.



Hideyo

RE: Brissle Update - Good News and Bad News

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

You are very welcome, Kyle.  I am usually the very first one to make a
quick conclusion from a blood work lab result myself, but my holistic
vet (and actually my regular vet also) always put me back in a place so
that we allow more leniency and opportunities for other possibilities
before making any conclusion from one lab work - 

Regardless, I will be thinking of you and Brissle that her condition
will only get better - and even if it's a cancer, I would also like to
suggest other alternative treatment besides chemo, too.

I happen to know two people (one is a lady who is an early 40 and
another one is 7 year old girl) who were diagnosed with brain cancer
very recently.  They both have gone through with chemo treatment and
both of them are now seeking for an alternative (holistic) treatment.
According to Lee (the first lady I mentioned), chemo therapy only made
her sicker, and her quality of life got much worsen due to a side effect
and she inquired me regarding some type of mushroom grows in Japan who
shows very encouraging result on treating cancer - and the father of the
girl (7 year old with a brain cancer) also asked me about the same thing
as a coincidence - so I asked my sister who lives in Japan to look into
it for me - my sister has a dog who was diagnosed with a lymph cancer
about 10 years ago, the vet only gave her 6 month to live, which was
about 10 years ago, my sister only does very natural treatment with no
drug - and her dog is out-living all other healthy siblings of hers and
her father dog - which is amazing (almost a miracle) to me. This always
give me a hope - nothing is definitely fatal - even if it seems that
way.

So, please explore all the options before starting chemo even if it was
a cancer, Kyle. 

Hugs and loves to you and Brissle

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Melbeach
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 5:47 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Brissle Update - Good News and Bad News

Thanks Hideyo. That's why I wanted to run it by the list first. I think
I'll
take Brissle to the specialist first for another blood test. Now I'm
wondering
if her blood was drawn before or after the Immunoregulin injection.
Maybe that
would make a difference.

-Kyle

- Original Message - 
From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:18 PM
Subject: RE: Brissle Update - Good News and Bad News


Hi, Kyle,
Is there any way that you can get a second opinion?  I feel that
starting with chemo without confirmation of the cause being a cancer is
also a risky for your kitty, I also suspected that my Simon and OB might
have a cancer, and my vet recommended ultrasound (preferable) or X-ray
to see if there are any indications of cancer - if she doesn't have a
cancer, she can get very sick from chemo, too.

And again, I don't know your kitty's condition right now, but if she is
not acting sick, could you wait and run another blood work in a few
weeks to see what happens before you start with chemo to see if anything
will change?  I just feel it's a bit premature suggestion on your vet's
to suggest chemo just judging from the blood work -

I just know that their CBC and chemistry panel change on a daily basis.
I had a cat one time whose HCT was 13 (he did not have FeLK), and did
not know why it was so low - but in a couple of weeks, it went back to
normal on his own - no one knew what was causing it - but it happens.

I will be praying for your kitty, Kyle.

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 5:04 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Brissle Update - Good News and Bad News

S**t, Kyle,
Oh man, I can't even come up with anything else to say.  Why does your
vet suspect cancer?  She's acting fine?  The WBC is indicative of
infection, right?  What is L/M?  Damn it Kyle, I feel like throwing a
tantrum.
Nina

Melbeach wrote:

I just spoke with my vet after Brissle's blood tests from today. The
good
news: Her HCT is now 21.3%, up from 9.7% five weeks ago. The bad news:
Her WBC
is now 36.8, up from 17.3 (normal is 5.0 to 18.9). And her L/M is now
24.4
(normal is 1.5 to 7.8), up from 9.0. Both of these numbers are off the
chart.



My vet said that all signs point to cancer and he's strongly
recommending
sending Brissle to a specialist for chemo. He said that her glands felt
normal. He believes that the cancer is in the bone marrow. Everything
else
seems normal at this point. She's eating fine, energy is good.



I will probably go ahead with the chemo. Just wanted to hear what the
peanut
gallery thought. I'm also wondering how much it costs and how often you
have
to go.



Thanks!

-Kyle

RE: OT: help me, please

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I hope so  I feel badly, when we
caught him three weeks ago, Susans friend wanted to adopt him, but I
sort of discouraged her to do so (or at least I demanded that I speak with her
and visit her house so that I can make sure that its a good home)
because he was so feral, and he sort of lives Susans yard, and did not
want to move to his new house against his will, and because he might try to
come back here, or get lost there, and something bad happened to him (relocating
a feral is a very risky thing  I made so many mistakes in the past and I
lost some)  and anyway, we just decide to let him free in Susans
back yard, and he has been very happy here even after we released him 
Susan always found him in the yard, sleeping on the couch, and eating  I
just miss him so much!! I hope we can see him again
soon! 











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Melbeach
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:24
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: help me, please







Hideyo, that's good news! If it's him, I'm sure he'll come
back to you. He'd be crazy not to! Sending positive vibes your way!











-Kyle













- Original Message - 





From: Hideyo Yamamoto 





To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org






Sent: Friday, April 08,
2005 3:55 PM





Subject: RE: OT: help me,
please









I just talked to Susan  and she
thought she saw the boy kitty this morning  but he was in the weed which
is 2 feet high and not sure if it was him or not, since he was facing back
 I am desperately hoping and praying that it was him  and I dont
want give up a hope yet, I would appreciate any positive thought for him so
that he will come running back to Susans yard!



Hideyo











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hideyo Yamamoto
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 1:42
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT: help me, please





I just talked to one of AC  Jasmine
(thank you for referral, Nina and Sally)  

Jasmine feels that the boy kitty is not
alive any more  she did not feel his soul in his body  

He was telling her that there was
something wrong with him internally for a long time (something like a cancer)
and he went underneath of building (maybe Susans house) to hide 
and she feels that his soul is now out of his body.



I am so sad, you guys. He probably came to
say good bye to Susan last Saturday, it was interesting that Susan mentioned to
me that he insisted that he came in the house that day  he slept all day
and ate and left  and has not been since 0



I wish I did not let him go three weeks ago
when I trapped him  I asked Jasmine if we could have help him if I did
not let him go then  and he told Jasmine, it would not have made any
difference  



This was Susans boy kitty for a
long time  I just simply miss him  Jasmine also told me that 
she could be wrong  she is always not 100% right  I guess, I am
hoping that this time, its one of those cases  



If theres a hope for the boy kitty,
please everyone send him a good vibe, so if theres any energy left in
him, then he can come back, then we can take care of him better 



Thank you!











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 1:46
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: help me, please







You and your neighbor are turly special people, I am pulling for oyur
boy to come back to you.





Cherie

Hideyo
 Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:





Nina, may I have a phone number of the animal spiritual
person you mentioned to me about before? There is a boy kitty who has
been missing since last Saturday he is a stray kitty, and has been injured
 me and my neighbor, Suzan caught him once with a fish net when we found
our his raw looking scar, but let him go after a couple of days as we
thought the scar looked better  which was about three weeks ago, and
Susan told me that he came in Susans house and slept all day (which he
does sometimes) and went out again, but have not seen him ever since, which is
unusual as he has been hanging out at Susans yard almost every day
 she mentioned to me that he looked kinda skinny and his scar looked
bloody again, and now I am really worried and I wanted to talk to this person
to see if I can find out about the boy.



Everyone - , please pray that he is doing ok and the boy
will be back to Susans yard soon with no problem. I was planning
to take him to a vet next week  but I am so worried right now.



Hideyo

RE: Ginger - throwing up

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thank you, Michelle  

I know what you mean.. all my other FeLV
negative ones vomit all the time and I dont think much of it unless they act
ill  but when coming to Ginger, I am so paranoid about everything  

Has anyone experienced any side effects
from Immuno-regulin? My holistic vets sort of discouraged using it and I am a
little scared to use --- but have not heard any side effects from anyone on the
list, and was just wondering.. thank you!



Hideyo











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 4:47
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Ginger - throwing up









Hi, Hideyo. I don't think vomiting itself
is a symptom of FeLV, or that positive cats who are not otherwise sick do it
any more than negative cats.











If her appetite is down but she has no
other symptoms, I think I would try Immuno-regulin. That article on the
website says it helps with all non-cancer illnesses associated with FeLV, and
it seemed to help Brissle with her anemia and other symptoms.











Sending lots of good thoughts,





Michelle











In a message dated 4/8/05 3:46:04 PM
Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Hi,

Ginger threw up this morning, a lot.

This happened once a few months ago, and I did not know its a
common symptom for a FeLV kitty  

Her appetite has not been great lately  almost every day, I have
been force-feeding her dont get me wrong  she does eat, but not as much as
she used to do  

I just love her so much- I know she deserves more than what I am
giving her right now  though she asks so little of me - 

Please send a positive energy to Ginger that she will feel better
soon, please..

RE: My beautiful angel Jazz is gone

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Thanks, Kerry as always for your kind words.
When we took care of him for a few days due to his injury three weeks
ago, something told me that I wanted to take pictures of him, so I did -
yesterday, I went developed them - I am so glad that I have his pictures
with me - I put it in a frame and kiss him and hug him (which I could
never do to him because he was so feral) - I did not want to forget what
he looked like - he had such an innocent cute face - now I won't have to
- 

Hideyo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie,
Kerry N.
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:21 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: My beautiful angel Jazz is gone

Hideyo
I'm so sorry about the little stray boy kitty. I'm crying with you. I'm
glad you got a little comfort. It's so hard. And you're so brave.
much love, Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hideyo
Yamamoto
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:12 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: My beautiful angel Jazz is gone


Nina, I am so very sorry to hear about Jazz - I am crying with you,
Nina. I just hate this disease so much and I wish I could find words to
make you feel better - but I know that you know that I understand
exactly what you are going through.

Nina, I talked to two ACs on Friday regarding the injured stray kitty
that has been missing - and I wanted to share this with you in case you
feel that this might be something that you might want to consider for
Jazz (talking to Jazz through AC though you are the one who originally
recommended to me about ACs).

Anyway, two ACs, they both said a very similar thing about the boy kitty
which was that he already crossed over, his soul is now out of his body.
I was and am very sad - and I cried and I cried, but at the same time, I
was able to communicate him via AC - and it was one of the most amazing
experience I ever had in my life. Then, I realized that the worst thing
I could have expected that was not that he was no longer alive, but he
was somewhere suffering, and wanted to be found, and I couldn't. -  and
that was not the case.  He said that he just went peacefully with no
pain - it was something that was there for a long time, perhaps, cancer,
and he knew that his time was approaching and he perhaps came to say
good bye to Susan on Saturday of two weeks ago.

This might sound weird - though no longer he was alive on this earth, he
told me that he was OK - he had a good life and he loved me and still
loves me.  But he was worried about me, he thought that Susan would be
sad, (my neighbor) but she would be ok - but he was worried about me
because I love too much, and can't let go and he did not want me to be
sad - 

Knowing that he was ok in his new world gave so much a peace of mind
which I never experience before.  I still cry every day missing him and
thinking about him, but knowing that he is no longer suffering gives me
a sense of peace which I found it so valuable.

The both ACs told me that nothing is 100% and they can be wrong - so I
still look for him everywhere I go , but even if I don't see him - I can
feel him, and he will be in my heart always...just like Jazz will be in
your heart...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: My beautiful angel Jazz is gone

The day we all dread came for Jazz and our family today.  My beautiful 
girl has gone to join her brother Flash and sister, Molly.  She had been

sick for the last couple of weeks and hadn't eaten for the last three 
days and her breathing had become fast and shallow.  I brought her in to

my GP vet this morning to get sub q fluids for her.  During his exam, he

became concerned about the faintness of her heartbeat.  We took xrays 
and it wasn't good.  Her lungs were pressed against her trachea, her 
heart was enlarged, and her liver deformed.  So, you see,  all the Dox 
and VO in the world wouldn't have helped.  This came on so suddenly.  My

first indication that something was wrong came about a month ago when I 
noticed her sitting in the same spot, just staring into space.  Then, 
about three weeks ago she didn't respond to my call and scared the heck 
out of me until I discovered her sitting in a corner of the garage, (all

my babies come when I call, this was very unusual behavior for her), 
then the signs of anemia began.  The last week has been the worst, more 
and more lethargy, less and less of my sweet Jazz's joy of life.  Today,

before we went to the vet, she looked at me and I swear I heard her say,

Mom, I love you, but please don't force any more medicine or food on me.

She'd lost 2 lbs over the last month and when I picked her up she'd be 
like a limp doll in my arms. Still, I never expected this morning to be 
the last morning we'd share. 

I'm so sad, so tired

OT: Suzi's new life via AC

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I spoke with Janet, who is an AC, and who helped me
communicate with the boy kitty who had been missing (his official name is boy
kitty with no girlfriend  Janet said that he actually liked the name.
This time I talked to her about Suzi who was my very baby, but died right after
spaying surgery last June.



I really needed to know what has happened to Suzi and how
she is doing 

Janet told me that she was in another body now  she is
about a 6 mos old kitty and has two boy sibling kitties at her house (yes, she
is not a stray kitty this time), she lives in north western part of CA 
she has nice parents with kids (but they are nice to Suzi and her brothers) she
is an indoor kitty and her home has a lot of windows  she right now
looks like cream color calico with medium hair  Janet said that she is
so pretty (she used to be tiger tabby with the softest coat)  she likes
to be petted by her family as her two other boys are more into playing!

Because she is in her new body now  it was more
difficult to remember me because she is so busy with her new happy life 



But she did tell Janet that  after the surgery, it
was like she never woke up, she was not in pain or anything  she crossed
over, and she saw her body and she knew something was very wrong  (Janet
sensed that it was some type of allergic reaction from anesthesia)



I wish so much that I could see her again when she came back
as another life  I felt that I owed her so much to make it up to her 
but I probably wont be able to in this life time since she is so far
away - but its such a relief to know that she is happy with her
new life  I miss her so still dearly though - I know she is happy, and
makes me so happy  but I still cry missing her  I guess I am
selfish that I wanted to be the one who take care of Suzi.





Thank you for listening.



Hideyo