Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute
I just wish that the audyssey magazine could become more regular, fact is by the time the mag hits these days if it does most of the stuff ie news and stuff is out of date. for whatever reason though I don't want to see the mag die off just like that. Problem is it was in the days before broadband, now its almost not needed but then I really miss reading it. I have always thought about putting something together even if you have to change from the origional format to reflect everything thats going on. There are so many projects out there its hard to know what is good and what isn't. At 12:04 p.m. 13/12/2014, you wrote: Hi Charles and all Indeed I'm ready and just have to pick up from all that's happened. 2015! Let's rock! On 12-Dec-2014 5:20 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: What a project to begin the new year! --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:38 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute Hi Shaun, While the Audyssey Magazine has been temporarily on hiatus the last couple of years I happen to believe it will be back sooner or later. Not what Ron's situation is and why he hasn't been able to put out an issue for a while I don't foresee it lasting forever. Besides Audyssey is so much bigger than the magazine these days. I do intend to update the website in the not too distant future, plan to work on converting the magazines to html, and may do a few other things with the site such as have a news section that will supplement the magazine when it comes back. Cheers! On 12/10/14, shaun everiss wrote: Well I used to read audyssey with rellish. It was good to just look at what the blind were doing. Fact was i had no idea of what the net was back then. I had started when win 95 was out. In fact I never really left dos till 2005 when my old keynote gold died completely. In fact through highschool, the keynote gold was with me till just before the end when I switched to my satelite 310. However the keynote was more fun because it had games on it. Dos actually got me friends with a group of hackers, I am friends with one of them still, another couple I know the rest have gone away. We played with games before the net. Most of them ran windows 3.1 and dos then however jims games were one of the things we often played. Sadly audyssey is basically dead, I don't know though if its worth bringing it back though. There are rarely issues out these days, and the fact is the audiogames forum has replaced it. back in the dialup days it was good, saying if something can be done with the mag, I have time to help out. I have jarte plus as my lightweight processer, and to be honest I want to keep the magazine alive. Jims stuff got me into that, the imortal gamer reminded me of the comic strips and other stuff in old computer magazines now no longer in production or online. A lot of them came with software, cds disk, and the like. my group and I would load things on systems till they died and decide what was good or not, if it completely totaled the system usually the cd was snapped into bits and shreaded, however those days are gone with the web. Once I tried to bring up an old project on some old systems machines for book playback but not much came of it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8722 - Release Date: 12/12/14 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8722 - Release Date: 12/12/14 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute
Hey thomas like you've got nothing else to do you're going to do this. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 8:38 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute Hi Shaun, While the Audyssey Magazine has been temporarily on hiatus the last couple of years I happen to believe it will be back sooner or later. Not what Ron's situation is and why he hasn't been able to put out an issue for a while I don't foresee it lasting forever. Besides Audyssey is so much bigger than the magazine these days. I do intend to update the website in the not too distant future, plan to work on converting the magazines to html, and may do a few other things with the site such as have a news section that will supplement the magazine when it comes back. Cheers! On 12/10/14, shaun everiss wrote: Well I used to read audyssey with rellish. It was good to just look at what the blind were doing. Fact was i had no idea of what the net was back then. I had started when win 95 was out. In fact I never really left dos till 2005 when my old keynote gold died completely. In fact through highschool, the keynote gold was with me till just before the end when I switched to my satelite 310. However the keynote was more fun because it had games on it. Dos actually got me friends with a group of hackers, I am friends with one of them still, another couple I know the rest have gone away. We played with games before the net. Most of them ran windows 3.1 and dos then however jims games were one of the things we often played. Sadly audyssey is basically dead, I don't know though if its worth bringing it back though. There are rarely issues out these days, and the fact is the audiogames forum has replaced it. back in the dialup days it was good, saying if something can be done with the mag, I have time to help out. I have jarte plus as my lightweight processer, and to be honest I want to keep the magazine alive. Jims stuff got me into that, the imortal gamer reminded me of the comic strips and other stuff in old computer magazines now no longer in production or online. A lot of them came with software, cds disk, and the like. my group and I would load things on systems till they died and decide what was good or not, if it completely totaled the system usually the cd was snapped into bits and shreaded, however those days are gone with the web. Once I tried to bring up an old project on some old systems machines for book playback but not much came of it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute
Hi Charles and all Indeed I'm ready and just have to pick up from all that's happened. 2015! Let's rock! On 12-Dec-2014 5:20 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: What a project to begin the new year! --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:38 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute Hi Shaun, While the Audyssey Magazine has been temporarily on hiatus the last couple of years I happen to believe it will be back sooner or later. Not what Ron's situation is and why he hasn't been able to put out an issue for a while I don't foresee it lasting forever. Besides Audyssey is so much bigger than the magazine these days. I do intend to update the website in the not too distant future, plan to work on converting the magazines to html, and may do a few other things with the site such as have a news section that will supplement the magazine when it comes back. Cheers! On 12/10/14, shaun everiss wrote: Well I used to read audyssey with rellish. It was good to just look at what the blind were doing. Fact was i had no idea of what the net was back then. I had started when win 95 was out. In fact I never really left dos till 2005 when my old keynote gold died completely. In fact through highschool, the keynote gold was with me till just before the end when I switched to my satelite 310. However the keynote was more fun because it had games on it. Dos actually got me friends with a group of hackers, I am friends with one of them still, another couple I know the rest have gone away. We played with games before the net. Most of them ran windows 3.1 and dos then however jims games were one of the things we often played. Sadly audyssey is basically dead, I don't know though if its worth bringing it back though. There are rarely issues out these days, and the fact is the audiogames forum has replaced it. back in the dialup days it was good, saying if something can be done with the mag, I have time to help out. I have jarte plus as my lightweight processer, and to be honest I want to keep the magazine alive. Jims stuff got me into that, the imortal gamer reminded me of the comic strips and other stuff in old computer magazines now no longer in production or online. A lot of them came with software, cds disk, and the like. my group and I would load things on systems till they died and decide what was good or not, if it completely totaled the system usually the cd was snapped into bits and shreaded, however those days are gone with the web. Once I tried to bring up an old project on some old systems machines for book playback but not much came of it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8722 - Release Date: 12/12/14 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8722 - Release Date: 12/12/14 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute
What a project to begin the new year! --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:38 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine was A Brief Tribute Hi Shaun, While the Audyssey Magazine has been temporarily on hiatus the last couple of years I happen to believe it will be back sooner or later. Not what Ron's situation is and why he hasn't been able to put out an issue for a while I don't foresee it lasting forever. Besides Audyssey is so much bigger than the magazine these days. I do intend to update the website in the not too distant future, plan to work on converting the magazines to html, and may do a few other things with the site such as have a news section that will supplement the magazine when it comes back. Cheers! On 12/10/14, shaun everiss wrote: Well I used to read audyssey with rellish. It was good to just look at what the blind were doing. Fact was i had no idea of what the net was back then. I had started when win 95 was out. In fact I never really left dos till 2005 when my old keynote gold died completely. In fact through highschool, the keynote gold was with me till just before the end when I switched to my satelite 310. However the keynote was more fun because it had games on it. Dos actually got me friends with a group of hackers, I am friends with one of them still, another couple I know the rest have gone away. We played with games before the net. Most of them ran windows 3.1 and dos then however jims games were one of the things we often played. Sadly audyssey is basically dead, I don't know though if its worth bringing it back though. There are rarely issues out these days, and the fact is the audiogames forum has replaced it. back in the dialup days it was good, saying if something can be done with the mag, I have time to help out. I have jarte plus as my lightweight processer, and to be honest I want to keep the magazine alive. Jims stuff got me into that, the imortal gamer reminded me of the comic strips and other stuff in old computer magazines now no longer in production or online. A lot of them came with software, cds disk, and the like. my group and I would load things on systems till they died and decide what was good or not, if it completely totaled the system usually the cd was snapped into bits and shreaded, however those days are gone with the web. Once I tried to bring up an old project on some old systems machines for book playback but not much came of it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
well its why I still use my xp laptop for gaming. Most of the old vb6 games do not work right on 7. The newer ones do thank goodness. At 02:49 AM 11/9/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, Yeah, I agree with you. I don't have a problem with Azabat producing card, puzzle, and board games. As I recall they were one of the first to come out with an accessible Drafts game. What always got on my wick is the way they implemented their games by running them directly from the CD. For one thing the Azabat games are very small, and most people today have at least a 100 GB drive or larger so its not like space should be a major concern. Most of Azabat's customers are likely to own some screen reader weather it be Jaws, Supernova, Window-Eyes, or something free like NVDA. Anyone who has used a computer for a while should be able to install and run the game from the Start Menu like any other program. If finding icons is a concern on XP, Vista, and Windows 7 an icon can be placed on the desktop for convenience, and it can be pinned to the taskbar in Windows 8 and Windows 8.1. Either way finding and launching the game is not very complicated. Azabat is over simplifying something that just does not need to be that simple. The other issue is more a concern than a complaint. Azabat like so many audio game developers has chosen the Visual Basic 6 route, and now is facing serious problems with Windows 8 and 8.1. There is absolutely no native Visual Basic 6 support in Windows 8.x so if someone goes out and buys a new Toshiba, HP, or similar laptop the Azabat games aren't going to work unless someone helps them install all the missing components. Even then I've noticed some older games tend to crash or fail to work correctly on Windows 8 and 8.1. So Azabat is selling people on out dated technology, and I do not know when or if they are going to correct those issues. Cheers! On 11/7/13, dark wrote: > Hi tom. > > Even in the Uk, though the attitude of the rnib is held by some > organizations, there are some who are better. People may remember a few > years ago the organization Guide dogs organization I've always been a major > > fan of for their generalized good attitude and habbit of pushing people to > try and achieve things, albeit accessible computer games are sort of out of > > their perview. On the other hand, Action for blind people ran an audio games > > contest as part of their accessible technology blog, and when i wanted to > test out an Iphone there was someone from the technology section of the > local society who was quite happy to come and do a demonstration for me. > > It's generally a matter of finding the good ones and going with them, though > > I confess the prevailance of the rnib, the fact that when the Uk government > > or health service newly diagnoses someone as blind that! is who they are > sent to does somewhat get on my whick. > > Indeed, last time I went for an appointment with an optomatrist (as I do > from time to time to check my eye pressure, remaining vision and > medication), I noticed a man and his wife sitting behind me discussing > talking watches in rather worried tones. Since they were uncertain about > watches and asked about the one I was actually wearing I broke the ice and > asked if they'd like a look. > > I actually felt rather sorry for this couple since the lady had recently > gone blind, was in her late 50's but had lived a highly active life, going > on major camping trips around europe, cycling and the like, and had pretty > much been told she'd now have to stop. > > Indeed, she was a little amazed when she heard I lived on my own, and even > more so when I explained I was at university finishing a doctorate since it > > just hadn't been explained to her that someone without vision could do those > > sorts of things. > > While that didn't relate explicitly to games (this lady was obviously not > really interested in such), it does sort of show the mentality. > > In particular one thing that annoys me slightly about Aadvertising zabat's > is their major insistance on "running straight from the cd!" as a major > factor, as if running a program from a program shortcut such as one of the > spoonbill games, pontes backgammon or Jim kitchins is beyond people, > heck, even if you were dealing with an absolute computer novice it'd hardly > > be difficult to setup a shortcut key so all a person would have to do is > press say control alt 1 to run the game. > > My mum is a complete computer novice, (she struggles with sending e-mail or > > basically managing files on her machine), yet once I'd installed Bg Sudocue > > for her (her being a big Sudocue fan), she's got no problems running it from > > the programs menue. > > I certainly have no problem with people producing card, word, puzzle or > other traditional games, there are people who enjoy such things and the fact > > that they now come with innumerable peaces of technology (even my parents > new sky plus Tv box came wi
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Yeah as games get bigger and bigger I can see the reason. I have several games given to me which are 1 or 2 gb in size loaded on my drive. And I have the old silent steel which I loaded on drive and made the cfg file run it all from the drive which is 2gb. So having 20 gb of installed game on my drive um maybe not. My friend that does play games often loads some games plays them and has to delete and load others because of the size. At 02:30 AM 11/9/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Well, these days most newer games come on DVD not CD, and the really high-end games for Play Station III etc come on blue ray discs. There are many good reasons why companies do this. Besides being able to use it as a type of copy protection, forcing people to physically own the media, with the size of many games to day it is better that the contents of the game remain on the DVD or blue ray disc than your hard drive. Perhaps you don't realize this but many mainstream commercial games are usually between 2 GB and 4 GB in size, and the really high-end ones can be 20 GB or more. With that amount of data it would easily fill up a good sized hard drive in no time at all. To give you an idea of what kind of sizes we are talking about the laptop I am using has a 300 GB drive in it. Now that drive is plenty for most of my needs, but if I started installing commercial games on it about 4 GB in size I'd quickly end up using most of that space on games. If I had 25 games that is 100 GB spent on games alone. Plus the more stuff a person stores on their boot drive the slower the operating system will run, and as a performance fanatic I'd go nuts having my OS dragging down to a snails crawl because I had x number of games on it. Cheers! On 11/8/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Dark sadly I know a lot of sighted games that still run from the cd > or need the cd for varification when run so I think while a lot don't > that this seems to be an industry practice rather than a minority one. > I don't care for this either. > it puts extra ware on the drive and disks, and for a lot of programs > that do it, it is not usually needed unless some files are not > installed on the system. > Silent steel does this but you can get round it easily enough. > I have known friends that have brought games. > That they have cracked just to avoid running off the cd, because they > hate it so much. > I still know modern games that still need the cd. > I do think this is being abused to much. > In the old days 1995 and earlier I realise why that was but with all > the power we have now we shouldn't need to run off a disk or > anything like that at all, there is no real excuse. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Yes, exactly. It is the high definition cut scenes, 3d graphics, etc that accounts for 90% of the size of modern games. The sounds and music is certainly a factor, but not as much as the graphics. To give you an example I was looking at Star Wars Battle Front, that is a game from a few years back, and about 1 GB of the Play Station disc was sounds and music. The rest of the disc was videos, graphics, and so on. If you use that as an average say one or two GB is sounds and music just yanking the graphics out cuts a game in half if not more. Cheers! On 11/8/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > Your very right about games, however bare in mind what takes up a huge > amount of space is graphics! especially the hyper complex, performance heavy > > 3D nonsense that most games have nowadays, just look at the relative size of > > audio and visual files. > > Of course, we've not had a complete commercial audio game with as complex a > > mechanic as most mainstream offerings, but I'd be willing to be just cutting > > out the graphics would reduce the size by at least half, if not more. > As one example, if I remember Rightly King of Dragon pass, which is about > mechanically as complex a game as you will find, is I believe about 140 mb, > > and even that! has significant amounts of still pictures and images. > > Papasangre 2 which has amazingly rich audio landscape is I believe around 60 > > mb. Of course, we haven't seen an audio game with the complexity of > something like dark souls, skyrim etc, so it's not quite possible to say, > but still just based on what I know of data and programming I'm pretty sure > > the requirements are wy smaller. > > This indeed might be another reason audio games are taking off on hand held > > platforms, since even with a 64 gb Iphone your still very limited in space. > > BEware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, I do take your point, and for the most part agree with it. That is very bad, and a very sad state of affairs when organizations like the RNIB treat something like Azabat as the best solution in terms of games when Jim Kitchen's or Spoonbill's games are cheaper and much better examples of those types of games. Cheers! On 11/8/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > Well the Vb issue is a separate one, but to just concentrate on design for > the second, I agree taht there is a place for games like Azabat, and > certainly they have produced some unique games, however what irritates me > about their company isn't just the running from the cd it's the attitude of > > avoiding! adding basic features and other elements to their games in an > effort to keep them symple. > > For example, in their anagram and mathematics style games, you have no > ability to input an answer, or have the computer keep score, also, though > the games run with the timer it is simply an audio sound file of a ticking > clock that the user ignores or not as they wish. Effectively, the game is > not using the power of the computer at all to create challenge, interest or > > extra possibilities for the puzzle, you could do pretty much the same thing > > with an audio timer and a bag of tactile scrabble letters. > > Bare in mind This wasn't due to the developer's lack of skill, indeed he did > > add the feature to have the computer produce a generic list of answers with > > the anagram from the dictionary (albeit it is up to the user to do > everything in his/her head as to whether he/she got any of those answers). > The developer stated his decision to do this was because he "wanted to have > > it as a game where people could just yell out" but what is really the point > > of that? > > Compare this to the Bg anagrams game of spoonbill or indeed the anagrams > game from allinplay, both of which are considderably cheaper than azabat's > version, have far more features (including in the case of allinplay online > competition), and are customizable with respect to time, challenge, score > etc, all of which customizations could be easily set for a person in the > game and saved by someone else, (though they're not hard to set on their > own). > > Another example might be pontes backgammon, which impressed me so much I > bought the game. Loads of features, customizable background, play against > the computer on various difficculties, or play online, or indeed with > someone else at the same machine, different rule sets, even different ways > of viewing the board, (you can play witht the mouse if you wish), not to > mention several language packs, yet to start a game you just start the > program and hit enter, (everything is found in the settings menue). > > While Azabat was certainly the first to create an accessible backgammon > game, and they still have the only backgammon game with graphics, in terms > of customization, features and just plane design Pontes is an amazingly well > > put together affair, (plus it's cheaper too). > > while as I said I have nothing against card, word or puzzle games, and > indeed enjoy them myself on occasion, like any games the better designed the > > better the game, and it just seems Azabat chose to design the games without! > > features, complexities or indeed in some cases much interaction at all in > gthe guise of "simplicity" and yet this is what the Rnib promotes as a > > standard for modern > and complete audio computer games for blind people! > > Oh,nd to prvent this turning into a witchunt on Azabat, a very similar > example is talking crossword puzzles, vs Bg crosswords from spoonbill, which > > even lets you import crosswords in different formats from actual newspapers! > > again, why do certain people and organizations have the idea that "for the > blind" means skimping on decent design? > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I took it as an ironic light hearted jab, with no offense meant or taken. Notta problem. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charles, Smile. I just couldn't resist mentioning it seeing that it was ironic you were busting Shaun's chops for not reading his messages and turned out you obviously hadn't done that yourself. Cheers! On 11/7/13, Charles Rivard wrote: Yep, I missed that one, as we all do, occasionally. The spell checker didn't catch it, because "fond" is a word. I didn't listen to the message before sending. Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Tom. Your very right about games, however bare in mind what takes up a huge amount of space is graphics! especially the hyper complex, performance heavy 3D nonsense that most games have nowadays, just look at the relative size of audio and visual files. Of course, we've not had a complete commercial audio game with as complex a mechanic as most mainstream offerings, but I'd be willing to be just cutting out the graphics would reduce the size by at least half, if not more. As one example, if I remember Rightly King of Dragon pass, which is about mechanically as complex a game as you will find, is I believe about 140 mb, and even that! has significant amounts of still pictures and images. Papasangre 2 which has amazingly rich audio landscape is I believe around 60 mb. Of course, we haven't seen an audio game with the complexity of something like dark souls, skyrim etc, so it's not quite possible to say, but still just based on what I know of data and programming I'm pretty sure the requirements are wy smaller. This indeed might be another reason audio games are taking off on hand held platforms, since even with a 64 gb Iphone your still very limited in space. BEware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Tom. Well the Vb issue is a separate one, but to just concentrate on design for the second, I agree taht there is a place for games like Azabat, and certainly they have produced some unique games, however what irritates me about their company isn't just the running from the cd it's the attitude of avoiding! adding basic features and other elements to their games in an effort to keep them symple. For example, in their anagram and mathematics style games, you have no ability to input an answer, or have the computer keep score, also, though the games run with the timer it is simply an audio sound file of a ticking clock that the user ignores or not as they wish. Effectively, the game is not using the power of the computer at all to create challenge, interest or extra possibilities for the puzzle, you could do pretty much the same thing with an audio timer and a bag of tactile scrabble letters. Bare in mind This wasn't due to the developer's lack of skill, indeed he did add the feature to have the computer produce a generic list of answers with the anagram from the dictionary (albeit it is up to the user to do everything in his/her head as to whether he/she got any of those answers). The developer stated his decision to do this was because he "wanted to have it as a game where people could just yell out" but what is really the point of that? Compare this to the Bg anagrams game of spoonbill or indeed the anagrams game from allinplay, both of which are considderably cheaper than azabat's version, have far more features (including in the case of allinplay online competition), and are customizable with respect to time, challenge, score etc, all of which customizations could be easily set for a person in the game and saved by someone else, (though they're not hard to set on their own). Another example might be pontes backgammon, which impressed me so much I bought the game. Loads of features, customizable background, play against the computer on various difficculties, or play online, or indeed with someone else at the same machine, different rule sets, even different ways of viewing the board, (you can play witht the mouse if you wish), not to mention several language packs, yet to start a game you just start the program and hit enter, (everything is found in the settings menue). While Azabat was certainly the first to create an accessible backgammon game, and they still have the only backgammon game with graphics, in terms of customization, features and just plane design Pontes is an amazingly well put together affair, (plus it's cheaper too). while as I said I have nothing against card, word or puzzle games, and indeed enjoy them myself on occasion, like any games the better designed the better the game, and it just seems Azabat chose to design the games without! features, complexities or indeed in some cases much interaction at all in gthe guise of "simplicity" and yet this is what the Rnib promotes as a standard for modern and complete audio computer games for blind people! Oh,nd to prvent this turning into a witchunt on Azabat, a very similar example is talking crossword puzzles, vs Bg crosswords from spoonbill, which even lets you import crosswords in different formats from actual newspapers! again, why do certain people and organizations have the idea that "for the blind" means skimping on decent design? Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Charles, I know, but I can see their rationality to a point. The fact of the matter is most people world wide who are blind and low vision are over the age of 50. So that much make sense. However, as Dark has stated many times the majority of their funds are gotten through wills and charitable donations so they play to the group whom they are most likely to get money from. So as far as the RNIB is concerned anyone below 50 just isn't worth their time unless they are willing to put up a lot of money to get noticed. Cheers! On 11/7/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > Maybe someone who would be served by the RNIB, or someone who is employed by > > them, can explain why the RNIB doesn't listen to, or realize that there are > > blind people from the age of 1 minute to over 90 years? Sheesh. It's > common sense, isn't it? Sure, there are people who lose their eyesight due > > to their age, or through an accident or a disease later in life, but there > also people who are born blind. Those people are young, and need > entertainment, too. And how about the 25 to 40 group? That's like saying > that all people who are deaf or hard of hearing are at least 70, or that all > > people who need to use a wheelchair are at least 70. It makes no sense! > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Yeah, I agree with you. I don't have a problem with Azabat producing card, puzzle, and board games. As I recall they were one of the first to come out with an accessible Drafts game. What always got on my wick is the way they implemented their games by running them directly from the CD. For one thing the Azabat games are very small, and most people today have at least a 100 GB drive or larger so its not like space should be a major concern. Most of Azabat's customers are likely to own some screen reader weather it be Jaws, Supernova, Window-Eyes, or something free like NVDA. Anyone who has used a computer for a while should be able to install and run the game from the Start Menu like any other program. If finding icons is a concern on XP, Vista, and Windows 7 an icon can be placed on the desktop for convenience, and it can be pinned to the taskbar in Windows 8 and Windows 8.1. Either way finding and launching the game is not very complicated. Azabat is over simplifying something that just does not need to be that simple. The other issue is more a concern than a complaint. Azabat like so many audio game developers has chosen the Visual Basic 6 route, and now is facing serious problems with Windows 8 and 8.1. There is absolutely no native Visual Basic 6 support in Windows 8.x so if someone goes out and buys a new Toshiba, HP, or similar laptop the Azabat games aren't going to work unless someone helps them install all the missing components. Even then I've noticed some older games tend to crash or fail to work correctly on Windows 8 and 8.1. So Azabat is selling people on out dated technology, and I do not know when or if they are going to correct those issues. Cheers! On 11/7/13, dark wrote: > Hi tom. > > Even in the Uk, though the attitude of the rnib is held by some > organizations, there are some who are better. People may remember a few > years ago the organization Guide dogs organization I've always been a major > > fan of for their generalized good attitude and habbit of pushing people to > try and achieve things, albeit accessible computer games are sort of out of > > their perview. On the other hand, Action for blind people ran an audio games > > contest as part of their accessible technology blog, and when i wanted to > test out an Iphone there was someone from the technology section of the > local society who was quite happy to come and do a demonstration for me. > > It's generally a matter of finding the good ones and going with them, though > > I confess the prevailance of the rnib, the fact that when the Uk government > > or health service newly diagnoses someone as blind that! is who they are > sent to does somewhat get on my whick. > > Indeed, last time I went for an appointment with an optomatrist (as I do > from time to time to check my eye pressure, remaining vision and > medication), I noticed a man and his wife sitting behind me discussing > talking watches in rather worried tones. Since they were uncertain about > watches and asked about the one I was actually wearing I broke the ice and > asked if they'd like a look. > > I actually felt rather sorry for this couple since the lady had recently > gone blind, was in her late 50's but had lived a highly active life, going > on major camping trips around europe, cycling and the like, and had pretty > much been told she'd now have to stop. > > Indeed, she was a little amazed when she heard I lived on my own, and even > more so when I explained I was at university finishing a doctorate since it > > just hadn't been explained to her that someone without vision could do those > > sorts of things. > > While that didn't relate explicitly to games (this lady was obviously not > really interested in such), it does sort of show the mentality. > > In particular one thing that annoys me slightly about Aadvertising zabat's > is their major insistance on "running straight from the cd!" as a major > factor, as if running a program from a program shortcut such as one of the > spoonbill games, pontes backgammon or Jim kitchins is beyond people, > heck, even if you were dealing with an absolute computer novice it'd hardly > > be difficult to setup a shortcut key so all a person would have to do is > press say control alt 1 to run the game. > > My mum is a complete computer novice, (she struggles with sending e-mail or > > basically managing files on her machine), yet once I'd installed Bg Sudocue > > for her (her being a big Sudocue fan), she's got no problems running it from > > the programs menue. > > I certainly have no problem with people producing card, word, puzzle or > other traditional games, there are people who enjoy such things and the fact > > that they now come with innumerable peaces of technology (even my parents > new sky plus Tv box came with monopoly, battleships and solitare), but why > simplify more than needs be? > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Well, these days most newer games come on DVD not CD, and the really high-end games for Play Station III etc come on blue ray discs. There are many good reasons why companies do this. Besides being able to use it as a type of copy protection, forcing people to physically own the media, with the size of many games to day it is better that the contents of the game remain on the DVD or blue ray disc than your hard drive. Perhaps you don't realize this but many mainstream commercial games are usually between 2 GB and 4 GB in size, and the really high-end ones can be 20 GB or more. With that amount of data it would easily fill up a good sized hard drive in no time at all. To give you an idea of what kind of sizes we are talking about the laptop I am using has a 300 GB drive in it. Now that drive is plenty for most of my needs, but if I started installing commercial games on it about 4 GB in size I'd quickly end up using most of that space on games. If I had 25 games that is 100 GB spent on games alone. Plus the more stuff a person stores on their boot drive the slower the operating system will run, and as a performance fanatic I'd go nuts having my OS dragging down to a snails crawl because I had x number of games on it. Cheers! On 11/8/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Dark sadly I know a lot of sighted games that still run from the cd > or need the cd for varification when run so I think while a lot don't > that this seems to be an industry practice rather than a minority one. > I don't care for this either. > it puts extra ware on the drive and disks, and for a lot of programs > that do it, it is not usually needed unless some files are not > installed on the system. > Silent steel does this but you can get round it easily enough. > I have known friends that have brought games. > That they have cracked just to avoid running off the cd, because they > hate it so much. > I still know modern games that still need the cd. > I do think this is being abused to much. > In the old days 1995 and earlier I realise why that was but with all > the power we have now we shouldn't need to run off a disk or > anything like that at all, there is no real excuse. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Charles, Smile. I just couldn't resist mentioning it seeing that it was ironic you were busting Shaun's chops for not reading his messages and turned out you obviously hadn't done that yourself. Cheers! On 11/7/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > Yep, I missed that one, as we all do, occasionally. The spell checker > didn't catch it, because "fond" is a word. I didn't listen to the message > before sending. Thanks. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Dark sadly I know a lot of sighted games that still run from the cd or need the cd for varification when run so I think while a lot don't that this seems to be an industry practice rather than a minority one. I don't care for this either. it puts extra ware on the drive and disks, and for a lot of programs that do it, it is not usually needed unless some files are not installed on the system. Silent steel does this but you can get round it easily enough. I have known friends that have brought games. That they have cracked just to avoid running off the cd, because they hate it so much. I still know modern games that still need the cd. I do think this is being abused to much. In the old days 1995 and earlier I realise why that was but with all the power we have now we shouldn't need to run off a disk or anything like that at all, there is no real excuse. At 03:04 AM 11/8/2013, you wrote: Hi tom. Even in the Uk, though the attitude of the rnib is held by some organizations, there are some who are better. People may remember a few years ago the organization Guide dogs organization I've always been a major fan of for their generalized good attitude and habbit of pushing people to try and achieve things, albeit accessible computer games are sort of out of their perview. On the other hand, Action for blind people ran an audio games contest as part of their accessible technology blog, and when i wanted to test out an Iphone there was someone from the technology section of the local society who was quite happy to come and do a demonstration for me. It's generally a matter of finding the good ones and going with them, though I confess the prevailance of the rnib, the fact that when the Uk government or health service newly diagnoses someone as blind that! is who they are sent to does somewhat get on my whick. Indeed, last time I went for an appointment with an optomatrist (as I do from time to time to check my eye pressure, remaining vision and medication), I noticed a man and his wife sitting behind me discussing talking watches in rather worried tones. Since they were uncertain about watches and asked about the one I was actually wearing I broke the ice and asked if they'd like a look. I actually felt rather sorry for this couple since the lady had recently gone blind, was in her late 50's but had lived a highly active life, going on major camping trips around europe, cycling and the like, and had pretty much been told she'd now have to stop. Indeed, she was a little amazed when she heard I lived on my own, and even more so when I explained I was at university finishing a doctorate since it just hadn't been explained to her that someone without vision could do those sorts of things. While that didn't relate explicitly to games (this lady was obviously not really interested in such), it does sort of show the mentality. In particular one thing that annoys me slightly about Aadvertising zabat's is their major insistance on "running straight from the cd!" as a major factor, as if running a program from a program shortcut such as one of the spoonbill games, pontes backgammon or Jim kitchins is beyond people, heck, even if you were dealing with an absolute computer novice it'd hardly be difficult to setup a shortcut key so all a person would have to do is press say control alt 1 to run the game. My mum is a complete computer novice, (she struggles with sending e-mail or basically managing files on her machine), yet once I'd installed Bg Sudocue for her (her being a big Sudocue fan), she's got no problems running it from the programs menue. I certainly have no problem with people producing card, word, puzzle or other traditional games, there are people who enjoy such things and the fact that they now come with innumerable peaces of technology (even my parents new sky plus Tv box came with monopoly, battleships and solitare), but why simplify more than needs be? Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Charlse. While I won't say the rnib's attitude makes sense I am quite aware why they have it. Actually, where as with deafness or mobility issues there is a good proportion of people who have them in younger life, the majority of blind people actually are! over the age of 70. Last estimate I checked said that %80 were over 50, and %60 over 70. Of course, that isn't an excuse, but it is part of the reason, though the second part is far nastier. Money! Though the rnib is a charity in the Uk and has therefore tax excemption status, it actually functions much more as a business, with a managing director, share holders etc. %50 of their donations come from people leaving legacies to the rnib in their wills, indeed on th last information day I went to last year, the over two hours! the rnib spent telling people how important leaving money to them was in their wills boardered on brain washing. I have attempted many times over the years to change this perception. I have encouraged production of rp resources, suggested braille gamebooks (at the time I didn't know about internet capabilities), and from the age of 7! have been asking their talking book library to please produce a few more titles which readers of younger age groups would be interested in, ie, sf, fantasy and horror. no dice! And the worst thing is this doesn't seem to change, indeed recently (since I have some time having finished my phd), when I found out the guide dogs holiday organization had shut down (a group who I had been on several interesting trips with, including both down hill and cross country skeeing in the alps, sailing and wind serfing in griece, touring egypt in 2010), when I asked the rnib if a similar organization was still around all they offered me were retreat breaks in their "specially adapted centers for the eldily" which needless to say wasseveral million miles away from what I was looking for! Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi tom. Even in the Uk, though the attitude of the rnib is held by some organizations, there are some who are better. People may remember a few years ago the organization Guide dogs organization I've always been a major fan of for their generalized good attitude and habbit of pushing people to try and achieve things, albeit accessible computer games are sort of out of their perview. On the other hand, Action for blind people ran an audio games contest as part of their accessible technology blog, and when i wanted to test out an Iphone there was someone from the technology section of the local society who was quite happy to come and do a demonstration for me. It's generally a matter of finding the good ones and going with them, though I confess the prevailance of the rnib, the fact that when the Uk government or health service newly diagnoses someone as blind that! is who they are sent to does somewhat get on my whick. Indeed, last time I went for an appointment with an optomatrist (as I do from time to time to check my eye pressure, remaining vision and medication), I noticed a man and his wife sitting behind me discussing talking watches in rather worried tones. Since they were uncertain about watches and asked about the one I was actually wearing I broke the ice and asked if they'd like a look. I actually felt rather sorry for this couple since the lady had recently gone blind, was in her late 50's but had lived a highly active life, going on major camping trips around europe, cycling and the like, and had pretty much been told she'd now have to stop. Indeed, she was a little amazed when she heard I lived on my own, and even more so when I explained I was at university finishing a doctorate since it just hadn't been explained to her that someone without vision could do those sorts of things. While that didn't relate explicitly to games (this lady was obviously not really interested in such), it does sort of show the mentality. In particular one thing that annoys me slightly about Aadvertising zabat's is their major insistance on "running straight from the cd!" as a major factor, as if running a program from a program shortcut such as one of the spoonbill games, pontes backgammon or Jim kitchins is beyond people, heck, even if you were dealing with an absolute computer novice it'd hardly be difficult to setup a shortcut key so all a person would have to do is press say control alt 1 to run the game. My mum is a complete computer novice, (she struggles with sending e-mail or basically managing files on her machine), yet once I'd installed Bg Sudocue for her (her being a big Sudocue fan), she's got no problems running it from the programs menue. I certainly have no problem with people producing card, word, puzzle or other traditional games, there are people who enjoy such things and the fact that they now come with innumerable peaces of technology (even my parents new sky plus Tv box came with monopoly, battleships and solitare), but why simplify more than needs be? Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Maybe someone who would be served by the RNIB, or someone who is employed by them, can explain why the RNIB doesn't listen to, or realize that there are blind people from the age of 1 minute to over 90 years? Sheesh. It's common sense, isn't it? Sure, there are people who lose their eyesight due to their age, or through an accident or a disease later in life, but there also people who are born blind. Those people are young, and need entertainment, too. And how about the 25 to 40 group? That's like saying that all people who are deaf or hard of hearing are at least 70, or that all people who need to use a wheelchair are at least 70. It makes no sense! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Shaun, Well, I think it goes without saying that many people have long standing biases when it comes to the blind and that includes some organizations and agencies who should know better. Organizations like the R.N.I.B. mainly deal with the elderly on a daily basis so have totally geared their program for people over 50 or 60. That is why something like the Asabat games that are simple card, board, and word games are the only thing they support. The R.N.I.B. only see the blind as being elderly and more or less incapable of being interested in something like Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, whatever. However, not all organizations are quite that out of touch with reality. I remember a long time ago being able to purchase things like Lone Wolf from Anne Morris and Independent Living Aids. I don't know if they still sell the GMA games or not, but I know some places like that did resell games besides typical card and puzzle games. Something else I remember a few years ago N.F.B. use to have demos of Troopanum and Pipe on their computers. Justin had worked out some deal with the N.F.B. to have them advertise the BSC game titles and they did. So not all organizations are quite as bad as the R.N.I.B when it comes to treating the blind as elderly and pushing Asabat as the only games for the blind. On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: I just don't aggree with asabat stuff being what the blind game should be represented as such. Now don't get me wrong, they may be a good company, its just that I feel that they portray the blind as simple people that have no hope. I have seen the games out there here and on the forum and it disgusts me that there are people that do not look at what is clearly in front of them or at least in easy reach. It disturbs me that some will think that all blind can play is card and board games when we have clearly gone past that, well we still do play them but they are not our ownly source of entertainment. I think organisations for the blind should have more choices. Is it that they don't know or don't wish to know. I wander sometimes if they even try, I am sure that its not the case sertainly I hope its not. It is still a worry I guess of what other think of me something I really shouldn't be bothered about but I guess I am bothered. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Yep, I missed that one, as we all do, occasionally. The spell checker didn't catch it, because "fond" is a word. I didn't listen to the message before sending. Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charles, I just had to point this out to you, but I found a spelling mistake in this message. You meant to spell find, f i n d, and you typed fond, f o n d. Maybe you should practice what you preach? :D Cheers! On 11/6/13, Charles Rivard wrote: A good idea is to listen to your message before you send it. If something sounds wrong, it probably is wrong. If it goes on and on and on with no pausing, check the punctuation. If a word sounds wrong, check the spelling or use a spell checker. If you don't have one, fond one through a search engine. There are free ones available. HTH. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Well, I think it goes without saying that many people have long standing biases when it comes to the blind and that includes some organizations and agencies who should know better. Organizations like the R.N.I.B. mainly deal with the elderly on a daily basis so have totally geared their program for people over 50 or 60. That is why something like the Asabat games that are simple card, board, and word games are the only thing they support. The R.N.I.B. only see the blind as being elderly and more or less incapable of being interested in something like Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, whatever. However, not all organizations are quite that out of touch with reality. I remember a long time ago being able to purchase things like Lone Wolf from Anne Morris and Independent Living Aids. I don't know if they still sell the GMA games or not, but I know some places like that did resell games besides typical card and puzzle games. Something else I remember a few years ago N.F.B. use to have demos of Troopanum and Pipe on their computers. Justin had worked out some deal with the N.F.B. to have them advertise the BSC game titles and they did. So not all organizations are quite as bad as the R.N.I.B when it comes to treating the blind as elderly and pushing Asabat as the only games for the blind. On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > I just don't aggree with asabat stuff being what the blind game > should be represented as such. > Now don't get me wrong, they may be a good company, its just that I > feel that they portray the blind as simple people that have no hope. > I have seen the games out there here and on the forum and it disgusts > me that there are people that do not look at what is clearly in front > of them or at least in easy reach. > It disturbs me that some will think that all blind can play is card > and board games when we have clearly gone past that, well we still do > play them but they are not our ownly source of entertainment. > I think organisations for the blind should have more choices. > Is it that they don't know or don't wish to know. > I wander sometimes if they even try, I am sure that its not the case > sertainly I hope its not. > It is still a worry I guess of what other think of me something I > really shouldn't be bothered about but I guess I am bothered. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I just don't aggree with asabat stuff being what the blind game should be represented as such. Now don't get me wrong, they may be a good company, its just that I feel that they portray the blind as simple people that have no hope. I have seen the games out there here and on the forum and it disgusts me that there are people that do not look at what is clearly in front of them or at least in easy reach. It disturbs me that some will think that all blind can play is card and board games when we have clearly gone past that, well we still do play them but they are not our ownly source of entertainment. I think organisations for the blind should have more choices. Is it that they don't know or don't wish to know. I wander sometimes if they even try, I am sure that its not the case sertainly I hope its not. It is still a worry I guess of what other think of me something I really shouldn't be bothered about but I guess I am bothered. At 09:59 PM 10/31/2013, you wrote: You state: "In Britain anything designed for "the blind" is automatically aimed at the over 70's more often than not, and frankly though there are some games with that ethos they're not the ones I play or am interested in, indeed had shades of doom struck me as being aimed at "the blind" I likely wouldn't have got into audio games at all." Whose fault is it that what is produced for blind people in Britain are produced for the older people? It is the fault of those who produce the stuff. As for Shades of Doom drawing your attention to it, and getting you into playing games, this was a good thing, wasn't it? Why take a negative attitude toward games geared toward people who cannot see to play mainstream games? I see it as being positive. As for what is produced, the producers should listen to the potential customers rather than the stick-in-the-muds of ancient stereotypical history of ignorance. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charlse. when it comes to games like swamp, shades of doom etc, I disagree they are! designed for "the blind" as you ubiquitously put it. In britain anything designed for "the blind" is automatically aimed at the over 70's more often than not, and frankly though there are some games with that ethos they're not the ones I play or am interested in, indeed had shades of doom struck me as being aimed at "the blind" I likely wouldn't have got into audio games at all. Plus, with how companies like somethinelse, choiceofgames, the developers of codenamesignas etc work for the Iphone they frankly don't! just make games for "the blind" Indeed to be perfectly honest charlse, I rather resent being grouped myself into a big "the blind" category. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Charles, I just had to point this out to you, but I found a spelling mistake in this message. You meant to spell find, f i n d, and you typed fond, f o n d. Maybe you should practice what you preach? :D Cheers! On 11/6/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > A good idea is to listen to your message before you send it. If something > sounds wrong, it probably is wrong. If it goes on and on and on with no > pausing, check the punctuation. If a word sounds wrong, check the spelling > > or use a spell checker. If you don't have one, fond one through a search > engine. There are free ones available. HTH. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Actually, running an FTP server is not all that expensive. If someone wants to he or she can do it from home using an extra desktop PC and some open source FTP software. Personally I'd setup a Linux server for this purpose since I know all the software I need is free and relatively secure, but it is possible to run an FTP server via Windows too. If someone has a dynamic I.P. address, which most people do, they can purchase a virtual domain for that system and run their FTP server from home. Upload and download speeds will probably suck, but it can be done fairly cheaply. On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Well to be honest the best solution is to have an ftp server but as > general users probably don't have the cash to afford a remote ftp or > have the means to run one without going over their cap or unless > spending more on the data it may as well be impossible. > Dropbox is good if you share folders as is sendspace, but a local > server would be better by far. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Yes, I know that already. In case you have forgotten I am presently running Wordpress on the USA Games site, but have not written a blog entry on their in a long time. So I am quite familiar with downloading and installing Wordpress on a website. Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Well you can run wordpress off the audyssey server. > wordpress.com hosts your blogs. > wordpress.org allows you to download wordpress. > I have a site on wordpress.com but I have also co admin with someone > that has a site directly on a server with wordpress. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi, Well, it make sense that accessible games be aimed at a specific target market. As I have said before reaching universal accessibility is really difficult to do unless it uses very simple user interfaces such as text which is good for blind, deaf, sighted, etc but is still not right for everyone. There are disorders like Dyslexia that effect a person's ability to read and write and therefore there would have to be speech combined with a menu to help overcome that person's disability. The standard parser system used by Tads, Inform, Adrift, and other such games wouldn't work for a person with Dyslexia. Another case I can think of is people with motor impairments. Some can be satisfied with simple one switch games, but I have known people who could not even do that. I knew a girl in college who was paralyzed from the waste down. She ran her computer by voice and a head tracking unit. She was also partially blind so used Jaws too. The point being in order to make a game that would be totally accessible to her special needs a developer like myself would have to add speech recognition support, probably Sapi output, and the game would probably have to be turn based not real time so she could play it. Right there that excludes a huge number of types of games just by the nature of her disability. I don't see someone in that condition playing Raceway or Rail Racer, because she doesn't have the fine motor skills to use a racing wheel, mouse, or joystick let alone a keyboard, nor can she dictate fast turns etc verbally to the game. About all she will ever be able to play are card and board games, or games with a similar turn based style of play. Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > I can see where you are coming from. > Accessable games seem to be routed at one dissability or another. > Now ofcause I am blind so I concentrate on that but it does get me > thinking what others are out there. > I do aggree with the universal access thing myself. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Well you can run wordpress off the audyssey server. wordpress.com hosts your blogs. wordpress.org allows you to download wordpress. I have a site on wordpress.com but I have also co admin with someone that has a site directly on a server with wordpress. At 11:20 PM 11/6/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Well, that may be the case, but as I said earlier on list I think if we do decide to setup a blog we will run it directly off the Audyssey server. I would like to keep everything together on the same site, same server, etc. Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > well I do use wordpress, and do in fact have it > on 2 such blogs one of which I own. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Well to be honest the best solution is to have an ftp server but as general users probably don't have the cash to afford a remote ftp or have the means to run one without going over their cap or unless spending more on the data it may as well be impossible. Dropbox is good if you share folders as is sendspace, but a local server would be better by far. At 11:52 PM 11/6/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. That irritates me as well. I'll be going through the Audio Games Forum, find a Dropbox link for something I want to download, and discover the link has expired. Dropbox has its use such as sharing a podcast, with a friend or two, but not for storing weeks or months of podcasts intended to be distributed to hundreds perhaps thousands of listeners. A free Dropbox account just won't cut it. Cheers! On 11/5/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > I also would not recommend dropbox unless you have the space money and > bandwidth for perminant hosting, indeed it somewhat irritates me when > someone on the audiogames.net forum asks for something, say an old copy of a > > now abandoned game, an audio demo or whatever and someone just provides a > dropbox link which expires shortly after, since while that gives whatever to > > the immediate person it does nothing for the future. > > This is one reason I use perminant sendspace links for my own audio podcasts > > that are always downloadable, though obviously since audeasy has it's own > server that is unnecessary. > > BEware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
A good idea is to listen to your message before you send it. If something sounds wrong, it probably is wrong. If it goes on and on and on with no pausing, check the punctuation. If a word sounds wrong, check the spelling or use a spell checker. If you don't have one, fond one through a search engine. There are free ones available. HTH. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Shaun, Well, I know a lot of people are a bit lazy in regards to spelling, proper grammar, punctuation, etc but I think the also forget that practice makes perfect. The more a person gets use to spelling words correctly, adding correct punctuation, and using proper grammar in a casual document like an email those habits will pay off when it comes to writing a professional or semi-professional article, essay, etc. The more you get in a habit of doing it right the first time the less complicated and difficult it will be to do it when it is necessary. That is why in math a student may have to do 20 problems in class and often times will get the same problem written a different way like 10 times 5 on one page and 5 times 10 on the next. The more a person practices doing it the more likely it is the student will see a problem like 10 times 5 and automatically know 50 is the answer. Spelling, grammar, good punctuation, etc are no different. The more you do it casually you'll be better able to do it when writing an article for a publication or writing an important letter to someone in authority. Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: I aggree with dark. I am a bit lazy in this reguard, but then I can't remember my last article I did so who knows. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I can see where you are coming from. Accessable games seem to be routed at one dissability or another. Now ofcause I am blind so I concentrate on that but it does get me thinking what others are out there. I do aggree with the universal access thing myself. At 12:22 AM 11/1/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, That's precisely what I am talking about. Having a page where people can look up largely universally accessible games, or stating in a review that game x is almost universally accessible. That is basically all I was getting at to begin with. Cheers! On 10/31/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > Well if in effect what we're saying is that textual games such as > gamebooks, brouser games etc are accessible to anyone with an alternative to > > read print even if they cannot hear, why not just have a page somewhere on > the site saying as much or note it in appropriate reviews of games. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. That irritates me as well. I'll be going through the Audio Games Forum, find a Dropbox link for something I want to download, and discover the link has expired. Dropbox has its use such as sharing a podcast, with a friend or two, but not for storing weeks or months of podcasts intended to be distributed to hundreds perhaps thousands of listeners. A free Dropbox account just won't cut it. Cheers! On 11/5/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > I also would not recommend dropbox unless you have the space money and > bandwidth for perminant hosting, indeed it somewhat irritates me when > someone on the audiogames.net forum asks for something, say an old copy of a > > now abandoned game, an audio demo or whatever and someone just provides a > dropbox link which expires shortly after, since while that gives whatever to > > the immediate person it does nothing for the future. > > This is one reason I use perminant sendspace links for my own audio podcasts > > that are always downloadable, though obviously since audeasy has it's own > server that is unnecessary. > > BEware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, As I said before the senior editor of the magazine actually puts the magazine together. If we were talking a professional magazine like News Week, Readers Digest, Popular Mechanics, etc there is a senior editor who goes through and selects the articles that will go in the magazine, organizes them, and puts it in its final form before it goes to press. Under the senior editor their may be lower ranking editors who proofreads the submissions sent in from their journalists and writers for errors, and send it back to the author with suggestions to correct, change, modify, etc. When the article is in a publishable form they submit it to the senior editor for possible selection and inclusion into the final draft of the magazine. Make sense? Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Well editors should correct mistakes though those that do post should > indevour to fix as much as they can. > Editors in some cases do put the magazine or whatever together unless > its handled by someone that puts things ttogether before distribution > at least that is what I understand of the deal. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Well, I know a lot of people are a bit lazy in regards to spelling, proper grammar, punctuation, etc but I think the also forget that practice makes perfect. The more a person gets use to spelling words correctly, adding correct punctuation, and using proper grammar in a casual document like an email those habits will pay off when it comes to writing a professional or semi-professional article, essay, etc. The more you get in a habit of doing it right the first time the less complicated and difficult it will be to do it when it is necessary. That is why in math a student may have to do 20 problems in class and often times will get the same problem written a different way like 10 times 5 on one page and 5 times 10 on the next. The more a person practices doing it the more likely it is the student will see a problem like 10 times 5 and automatically know 50 is the answer. Spelling, grammar, good punctuation, etc are no different. The more you do it casually you'll be better able to do it when writing an article for a publication or writing an important letter to someone in authority. Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > I aggree with dark. > I am a bit lazy in this reguard, but then > I can't remember my last article I did so who knows. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Well, that could be a problem, but I think what we are looking for in terms of article submissions that are submitted using international English. I'm not sure but I believe that is usually U.S. English unless otherwise noted. Plus there are plenty of other proofreading tools besides Microsoft Office. I myself use the free LibreOffice suite for Linux which supports just about every language in the world if I install those language packs and proofreading tools. Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > One thing that is not touched on as ar as I know is the dictionary used. > When I used to use office, it always used the us dictionary. > and the program made it quite fiddly to make > that change to another dictionary stick. > so some words were wrongly spelt by the checker for my country. > Yes I could change it but even so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Well, that may be the case, but as I said earlier on list I think if we do decide to setup a blog we will run it directly off the Audyssey server. I would like to keep everything together on the same site, same server, etc. Cheers! On 11/6/13, shaun everiss wrote: > well I do use wordpress, and do in fact have it > on 2 such blogs one of which I own. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
One thing that is not touched on as ar as I know is the dictionary used. When I used to use office, it always used the us dictionary. and the program made it quite fiddly to make that change to another dictionary stick. so some words were wrongly spelt by the checker for my country. Yes I could change it but even so. At 01:50 PM 11/1/2013, you wrote: Hi Bryan, While I understand someone's concern usually a good spell checker will accept both spellings for a word. For instance, ambiance can be spelled a m b I a n c e or a m b I e n c e, and LibreOffice will accept both without complaint. So I don't know that Americanizing someone's article is that much of a concern if we have a good editor at the helm. Cheers! On 10/31/13, Bryan Peterson wrote: > I think too thathe was concerned about te fact that we in the US and folks > over in the UKhave different spellings for the same word and he doesn't want > > some editor Americanizing his work. > > > > Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, > Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I aggree with dark. I am a bit lazy in this reguard, but then I can't remember my last article I did so who knows. At 11:29 PM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Kara. What I meant is it is unfair to lumber an editer with the job of spellchecking every single article. An editer certainly can check for content or length or whatever, but just the dull mechanics of getting words spelt write is really up to the author. Heck, if you submitted an academic article for publication or even a marked peace of workk without! spellchecking you'd get a rejection in a hurry. Much as I admit I am absolutely casual about spellings on list etc, if your essentially writing a publication you need to write at publication standard. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Well sertainly I'd like some catogry system but I wouldn't like a entire giant list as I feel there would be to many though I aggree that that would be good. I actually don't have to many, more things like catogries and extra indexes means more to track. At 09:40 PM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, Woe, let's slow down a bit here. I don't think I was actually suggesting creating sections for one switch games, closed captioning, and so on. Those are important, but as you said they are discussed elsewhere. I was thinking more in terms of having sections of games that are more universal in terms of accessibility such as gamebooks that are accessible to blind, deaf, and sighted user's alike without necessarily creating specific sections for one switch, motion impaired, closed captioning, etc as all of those categories would more or less be covered by that one genre of game. Something like Sryth by its very nature would be accessible to multiple disabilities than would be Shades of Doom or Tank Commander which target blind users with reasonably good hearing. Sryth is not 100% accessible to everyone, but because the medium is mostly text based it is reasonably accessible to blind, deaf, motion impaired, and sighted alike without having to do anything to specialize it for people with special needs. Therefore I would put it in a section of games with almost universal accessibility. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > While I do see your point about access for people with other disabilities, > with respect I don't entirely agree that this is something we particularly > need to do simply because there are many places it's done already. > > go to a site like able games, penny arcade or even retroremakes, and there > is plenty of information for gamers with motion imparements. Lots of games > have one switch or mouse control, or close captioning or similar none sound > > options for deaf gamers, (as indeed there should be), yet there is nothing > > at all about access for vi or blind gamers, indeed "colourblindness" is > about as far as such adaptations go. > > To show a great example of this, the game that won the 2008 retroremakes > accessibility competition was a game called pyramid that was entirely > graphical! it had innumerable customizations, control configurations, > options to play without sound, but was utterly and completely inaccessible > if you couldn't see the graphics, indeed even for me with my level of > sight I had to specifically write to the developers to request a menue > description of the huge huge huge! textual menue in the game in order to > > try it. > > Of course not every game can be accessible to everyone, but it does seem > some sorts of accessibility get far more publicity than others. > > Of course there are likely social reasons for this, the distinctly > misleading term "video games" which makes games sound implicitely! > inaccessible to visually impared people the way the visual arts are, the > higher proportion of younger people with motion or hearing imparements, the > > fact that "disability" in general social consciousness is always associated > > with a wheel chair etc, however for this reason I don't necessarily feel we, > > say need to start writing specificc sections of the audeasy site about > motion imparement access, alternative control schemes, text alternatives > tosound etc. > > Of course we certainly could! note in individual game reviews how different > > games might have access features that appeal to other groups of disabled > gamers, eg, text games for people who are deaf and blind, orcodename signus > > use of voice control, but I wouldn't suggest say making a major section on > close captioning for audeasy, since that sort of thing is coered extensively > > elsewhere, and after all sites like oneswitch.co.uk have far more expertees > > and do a much better job than we could on such matters anyway. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing li
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I aggree tom nothing is 100% accessable. same as nothing is 100% secure. I just got a notification of yet another ms security update. At 09:25 PM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, Definitely true. No game in the universe is 100% accessible to everyone else in the world. It can be something as simple as the menus and status messages being in a different language, or something more complex like an audio game being accessible to a blind player but not a deaf one. There is no way humanly possible to write something that is 100% accessible to everyone at the same time. Therefore accessibility needs to be discussed in terms of the group or groups being targeted. On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Darren. > > I don't think any game in the entire universe is accessible to everyone! > that's just how things are. > > Even something like the gaembooks on the ff project couldn't be played by > dislexic person. > > I'd myself simply talk about games being "accessible to" different > disabilities. gma tank commander is an audio game so it is accessible to > blind and vi gamers. The close captioned version of Doom 3 has full text > output so is accessible to deaf gamers etc. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Well editors should correct mistakes though those that do post should indevour to fix as much as they can. Editors in some cases do put the magazine or whatever together unless its handled by someone that puts things ttogether before distribution at least that is what I understand of the deal. At 09:20 PM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi, Yeah, I don't really get Dark's comment either. The purpose of an editor is to correct spelling mistakes, correct punctuation mistakes, and occasional correct a grammatical error or two when they happen. I know for instance in reading the mails from this list on a daily basis that some people often use me when they should use I or they use a double negative in a sentence etc. Those kinds of mistakes should be corrected before publication, and any editor worth his/her salt will find and correct such mistakes in any article, review, or news release intended to be published. So I'm not sure why Dark thinks it is so unfair for an editor to do what is basically his/her job anyway. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Cara Quinn wrote: > Dark, you say it is unfair for an editor to need to wade through an article > to edit it? > > Sorry, but that's any editor's job. ;) > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding here, so apologies if that's the case. > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
well I do use wordpress, and do in fact have it on 2 such blogs one of which I own. At 09:10 PM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Cara, Well, that is an interesting suggestion to be sure. One advantage to havig a blog such as Wordpress is that people could leave feedback for the author's and comment on reviews, articles, news postings, etc. Cheers! On 10/31/13, Cara Quinn wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > One idea is to have Audyssey articles be blog postings and have the magazine > in its entirety either be links to those articles or have those articles be > arranged on a single web page. > > This would be good on many levels, as not only would the entire issue be > available for those who may want to read it all at once, and also each > individual article could be an individual blog post every few days. So The > magazine could be posted, and following that, each individual article could > be posted to the blog for those who might like to have small doses filling > the time between issues. > > Also, with this model, links could be posted easily to Twitter / FaceBook > etc. One link for the entire mag, and a link to each blog post when it comes > out. > > this would make for a great experience to satisfy many types of readers. > Those who didn't have time or the desire to read the entire magazine, could > have many articles more often. > > Additionally, as has been mentioned here, any audio addenda to the mag, > could also be posted with the magazine as well as sent out along with each > blog posting. > > Does this make sense? > > This way, each issue would come out, and then there would be a steady stream > of material which could be automated to be posted every so often to keep the > activity going until the next issue of the magazine comes out. Who ever > assembles the magazine could simply queue up the articles and the blog > client could be set to post different articles on different dates. > > What are people's thoughts? > > Have a great night, > > cara :) > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Tom. I also would not recommend dropbox unless you have the space money and bandwidth for perminant hosting, indeed it somewhat irritates me when someone on the audiogames.net forum asks for something, say an old copy of a now abandoned game, an audio demo or whatever and someone just provides a dropbox link which expires shortly after, since while that gives whatever to the immediate person it does nothing for the future. This is one reason I use perminant sendspace links for my own audio podcasts that are always downloadable, though obviously since audeasy has it's own server that is unnecessary. BEware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hello Shaun, I don't think that we need a bunch of editors. One or two dedicated editors is really all we need. It is just a matter of getting the editors we do have to set aside personal time etc and get it done. We can do it, and it doesn't require an army of editors to put together a basic e-magazine on a quarterly basis. As far as putting it in a markup language such as HTML, XML, etc I already have plans to do that as soon as Ron gives me what he has. It is not very difficult to markup a document like the Audyssey magazine and give it a professional look and feel. So the conversion to a newer more professional format is already under way. As far as an audio podcast I have mixed feelings on that topic. Wile I am not apposed to it I still maintain it is an addition to the magazine not a replacement. I am looking towards January or so before I can really do anything on that front as there is a lot of personal issues in my life that requires my full attention right now. As far as content goes I still intend for Audyssey to primarily be about accessible games be they audio games, accessible card and board games, and so on. I don't think we need to add anything else other than perhaps have more content on the various new platforms such as iOS, Android, Mac, Linux, etc. I suppose we could discuss some hardware like joysticks, mice, headphones, etc but that is all dependent on end user submissions and not the editor or editors. As for offering a Dropbox account I appreciate the thought, but everything we do in terms of magazine submissions and the podcast will be handled via our own servers. We want to keep everything that we can on site if possible and don't want it just dumped on Dropbox or somewhere else. Same goes for a blog. I know how to setup Wordpress, configure it, create the necessary SQL database entries, etc and if we add a blog to our site it will be on the Audyssey server and not on someone else's server.So I don't really see much for you to do other than perhaps submitting articles for us to post to the site or magazine from time to time. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
That's absolutely true. I always checked articles I sent to Audyssey. I think that it is my responsibility to check for spelling and typos, but it is also the editor's job to, well, edit, as necessary. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charles, Well, yes, but I think Dark's point was that the author's rough draft should attempt to be spell checked and proofread for errors before being submitted to the editor therefore making the editors work a bit easier. I know in my own case whenever I write a document in LibreOfficeOrca alerts me when a word is misspelled or unknown by Writer, and I can correct it as I type the document or go back and edit the errors after I am finished. Plus the built-in spell checker comes in handy for anything I may have missed during composition. Point being there is little excuse for someone submitting an article to submit something filled with lots of spelling mistakes. Cheers! On 10/31/13, Charles Rivard wrote: The job of an editor is, well, to edit. This includes spelling and grammar if necessary. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
you are right there tom. If you still think there is a need then I'll definate like to help edit it. If we are serious in turning this magazine from old crappyness into the wow I had about 10 years ago we need a few things. 1. A group of editers and such that handle things, true a lot does come from the forums on audiogames.net. We also need people that will search the net for info and have enough time to do some of this. Next we need some sort of format. my idea is a html web page complete with headings as well as a text document. We should also concidder electronic braille though I have no idea how to produce it. We need an audio podcast, not necessarily the entire magazine but reviews, dev news articles etc so the people we read have more than the speech synth so to speak. We need exposure to though I am not sure what to do there. We need a bit more than blind games here. mainstream gaes and the blind, maybe expand into technology for gamers, that is accessable or that has good writeups or things. Things would include headsets, mice, joysticks and game pads. os spaciffic especially with the xp-ers like myself moving to 7 and 8 especially 8 where their security uac really means old games will have some issue. we have the japanese games and other language games and then there are all the tablets iphones androids, I may end up on a nexus, because of price and such. Then we need to keep it all going. And we need to be constant. we need also something in vms and vertual machine software. I'm not saying that its easy, but we need to. I can previde the following resources right now. 1. a folder for submitions of stuff in dropbox maybe, if this gets off the ground and I have to pay for a subscription then I may have to impose a small fee maybe a buck well 50 cents to a dollar to keep things going if I ever need it though text and other stuff is small. I am willing to try to set a site though to be honest, I am not made of cash but if I get a server in the future I may invest in it down the road. I can make a wordpress blog for the mag though I know audyssey has a server so maybe thats ok. I have time to do things as long as I get them a day in advance so I don't get lumped, holidays excluded though I will recieve submitions at any time ofcause real life things like house modifications and things will get in the way. Reviewing games. I can do this to maybe, at least have a hand at it though I never got my hd card in the new box ballenced right. Right now I can previde the dropbox and a promise of more if I am able. I have a job that requires a paypal and when I get a debit card depending on finances I could start donating 10-80 maybe 100 a month but that would be my limit. Ofcause I can't really do this just with myself, I will eventually need more space, and other things some wf which I may be able to cover myself some of which I may need assistance with. Then there are the games, if devs could give free coppies of games to be reviewed that would make it a bit better rather than buying games my resources are not limitless. This excludes tablets and companies which has prices of 10 bucks or less but even so. Any extra hardware ofcause will have to come from somewhere and with several family retiring in the next 2 years or less, funding is going to majorly reduce to a fraction of what i can currently afford. If people want to keep the mag going I'll gladly try to take up the rope but its not lone ranger, I will need help more than me and my little resources to keep it going. At 11:39 PM 10/29/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, I definitely think there is still a place for the Audyssey Magazine. For one thing not everybody is on the Audyssey List or Audio Games Forum. Many people who are busy with work, family, and other aspects of day to day life don't necessarily want to spend all their time browsing the forum or reading the list. For them the Audyssey Magazine is a nice quarterly summary of what has been going on in our community complete with news, reviews, and other things that may not be on the list or the forum. Any failure in the Audyssey Magazine in any of those areas is really the fault of the editor for not providing a consistent schedule and possibly for not encouraging enough readers to submit new content. Cheers! On 10/29/13, shaun everiss wrote: > To be honest, do we even need a magazine. > Its been overridden with the email list and the forums of > audiogames.net and there is so much out there and so little. > Yes if you are in the middle of a project like me its all on but > don't take it the wrong way but there is basically f**ck going on. > Not actually the case but not as much as it was in the early days of the > mag. > All or most dev news is outdated and the only sections I ever read > were game rescue unit, the imortal gamer, the dnd game stories though > of late these have been less humerous than usual but well. > Truth be told its been so long
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Well you sertainly have hit the zombie right there. I know our local blind org has experimented with audiogames sertainly knows about them. Would they publish an interesting mag, probably but I am not sure about the reviewing process. We would need editers and people in all countries that had orgs at least it would use fewer resources. Now how many would be interested would be the thing. Especially if there are those that think the poor blindies can play asabat games or games that support something else and not the normal games probably wouldn't care. At any rate we don't want the poor, super mentally mangled blind as the image for the magazine. How many organisations have been excluded, I am not sure but with the attitude going round I suggest enough to make a dent righ there. I am also not a socal blogger, I have a twitter for viewing tweats and a wordpress but find it hard to write on either. I wouldn't hold myself to post something per week, its really hard to do. To be honest my local org is only just now investigating nvda as a reader that is not jaws only now. How long the review processes will take and how long would it take to geet a rejection if ever it surfaced again. And the coverage. in the news released last month, the mention of nvda was 2 lines. 1 its being investigated 2. it has some issues which jaws does not have. and there you go. no description of what the issues were nothing. Its a pitty. Immediately I wrote to the devs to solve this and was requested info. A trackback found no one to talk to at all, and this worries me. Its a flat rejection right there. at least officially. Ok, so I know now nvda eventually came out but no publication what so ever. My suspician is the poor blind, super blind, mental blind, and stupid dumb helpless blind nut which has been growing thicker and thicker may be a quite hard nut to crack and will need a godly sized hammer to smash if it can ever be smashed. Yes its todays world but the old habbits still exist in some shape or form. I am not confordent that anyone will change without rocking the blindy boat unless there is a reason and sertainly nothing big. I am not saying don't try but still. The next we can do is try to get with magazine distributers themselves. Now a spaciffic blindness mag has no market value I tried to get a mag I read blind use. So we would our mag as a section of a mag if we ever got it going. Now that may not happen either. We would need someone in each contry to represent us at events and such. But mainstream events who would play a blindy games when there is graphics. Blind games are after all crap to sighted, maybe not all but enough that it would not make it a worthwhile thing at least not without some major something. And it all comes to cash to. I don't think any of us has millions of dollars, the sighted on here may have more resource. But us poor blindies really don't all have work and may be dependant on handouts and schemes. In fact if I did not live at home I probably wouldn't have resources to even go online! At least not broadband. The abismal fact is we need a large ammount of capital to even start sinking this no matter the running costs of this. That is if we want to expand. We can expand right now but its going to be different. 1. I hate facebook and twitter but someone not me well ok if no one else will do it I will, needs to be able to stay online 24/7 and handle the mag on social media. That is hard enough. we need more forums than the audiogames forum. game devs need to have the magazine on all their networks. We need to put the mag to as many places online at once and as quick and as regular as we can. That may trickle down, but its not garanteed to be honest. Next we need to contact orgs to see if they will even carry the mag as an interest and thats it or at least link to it. That may get a responce especially with libraries going digital. The distribution with organisations is another step, but if they approved that. there are blind consumer organisations courses, etc, there is potentual for distribution right there if we could get that far. Now thats fine and good, but we need to get the mag outside the blindness community if we are able to make a dent. the web distribution should be easy enough the rest will be the problem and even then. Next we need the media. Thats good and bad. We need coverage constantly or at regular intivals online on news articles on on broadcasts. We do not need the poor helpless blind playing games by asabat and jaws, yuck yuck yuck!!! We need power. large power! How to get it is the issue. If we pulled all resources, I wander how much we could put in if we really thought about it. maybe we could spread this to the forums on audiogames.net, that would open up a few more people as I said before. However the disabled really have no resources thats why we are disabled, most of the cash a lot of us get is from normals so normals
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Bryan, While I understand someone's concern usually a good spell checker will accept both spellings for a word. For instance, ambiance can be spelled a m b I a n c e or a m b I e n c e, and LibreOffice will accept both without complaint. So I don't know that Americanizing someone's article is that much of a concern if we have a good editor at the helm. Cheers! On 10/31/13, Bryan Peterson wrote: > I think too thathe was concerned about te fact that we in the US and folks > over in the UKhave different spellings for the same word and he doesn't want > > some editor Americanizing his work. > > > > Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, > Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I think too thathe was concerned about te fact that we in the US and folks over in the UKhave different spellings for the same word and he doesn't want some editor Americanizing his work. Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:18 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charles, Well, yes, but I think Dark's point was that the author's rough draft should attempt to be spell checked and proofread for errors before being submitted to the editor therefore making the editors work a bit easier. I know in my own case whenever I write a document in LibreOfficeOrca alerts me when a word is misspelled or unknown by Writer, and I can correct it as I type the document or go back and edit the errors after I am finished. Plus the built-in spell checker comes in handy for anything I may have missed during composition. Point being there is little excuse for someone submitting an article to submit something filled with lots of spelling mistakes. Cheers! On 10/31/13, Charles Rivard wrote: The job of an editor is, well, to edit. This includes spelling and grammar if necessary. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Point well taken. Obviously, Audyssey has always been primarily concerned with games for the blind and low vision, and that will remain our primary focus. Really, what I said earlier was a throw away comment and too much has been made of it as my actual meaning and intent got lost somewhere along the way. All I meant initially was using more inclusive language when describing our games as to make people aware that they are not necessarily a blind only product. To give you an example quite some time back I wrote a simple Blackjack game in Python for Windows, Mac, and Linux. Okay, it was text based, really simple, and if I advertised it as a blind game or game for the blind most non-blind player's would automatically assume it is something specially made for the blind and the blind only. However, as it is text based there is no reason a sighted person couldn't play it as well as someone who was deaf, deaf-blind, had motor impairments, etc. So the wording when advertising such a product is very important as by advertising something as a game for the blind can be misleading to people who aren't aware of what a game for the blind is. Do you get my meaning now? Cheers! On 10/31/13, dark wrote: > Fair enough tom, that sounds like an idea, I just wasn't sure how much you > were going to go into this, after all while I completely and absolutely > agree that looking outside vi access is a good idea, at the same time it > does need to be part of the considderation. > > Just to give an example, when on the retroremakes forum everyone was > pointing out how accessible the wii menue structur was withe wii mote and > > pointing for motion imparements, when I remaked that that same menue > structure made the basic wii interface just about impossible for myself > (apart from from wonderful white on white pointer), people didn't like that > > at all! > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Submitting articles for newspapers and other publications such as magazines is the same. It is the author who is responsible for his or her spelling and proper use of grammar. Although, the editor may make corrections or point out errors that need to be made before the submission is accepted for publication. However, in a lot of those cases the people submitting the articles at hand are professional writers, journalists on assignment, and can be trusted to have a reasonable degree of good spelling and grammar. As the people on this list are not professional writers, and if their emails are any judge, many listers are poor spellers as well as have a poor understanding of grammar so may need more help in those areas. Cheers! On 10/31/13, dark wrote: > Actually charlse, for editing articles for academic publication at least, I > > can tell you for certain that they don't! > > Editers are responsable for length, content, suggestions of alterations, but > > spelling and grammar is held to be the responsability of the author, as is > layout and references. > > During my masters we were even given the submission guidelines for writing > > for several academic jernals, and expected to submit all our essays > according to those guidelines. > > I'm not sure how it is in terms of writing for newspapers, magazines or the > > like, but certainly in academic circles spelling and grammar is the > author's responsability and if it's not up to standard you'll get a very > quick rejection. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Charles, Well, yes, but I think Dark's point was that the author's rough draft should attempt to be spell checked and proofread for errors before being submitted to the editor therefore making the editors work a bit easier. I know in my own case whenever I write a document in LibreOfficeOrca alerts me when a word is misspelled or unknown by Writer, and I can correct it as I type the document or go back and edit the errors after I am finished. Plus the built-in spell checker comes in handy for anything I may have missed during composition. Point being there is little excuse for someone submitting an article to submit something filled with lots of spelling mistakes. Cheers! On 10/31/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > The job of an editor is, well, to edit. This includes spelling and grammar > > if necessary. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Actually charlse, for editing articles for academic publication at least, I can tell you for certain that they don't! Editers are responsable for length, content, suggestions of alterations, but spelling and grammar is held to be the responsability of the author, as is layout and references. During my masters we were even given the submission guidelines for writing for several academic jernals, and expected to submit all our essays according to those guidelines. I'm not sure how it is in terms of writing for newspapers, magazines or the like, but certainly in academic circles spelling and grammar is the author's responsability and if it's not up to standard you'll get a very quick rejection. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
The job of an editor is, well, to edit. This includes spelling and grammar if necessary. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Kara. What I meant is it is unfair to lumber an editer with the job of spellchecking every single article. An editer certainly can check for content or length or whatever, but just the dull mechanics of getting words spelt write is really up to the author. Heck, if you submitted an academic article for publication or even a marked peace of workk without! spellchecking you'd get a rejection in a hurry. Much as I admit I am absolutely casual about spellings on list etc, if your essentially writing a publication you need to write at publication standard. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Fair enough tom, that sounds like an idea, I just wasn't sure how much you were going to go into this, after all while I completely and absolutely agree that looking outside vi access is a good idea, at the same time it does need to be part of the considderation. Just to give an example, when on the retroremakes forum everyone was pointing out how accessible the wii menue structur was withe wii mote and pointing for motion imparements, when I remaked that that same menue structure made the basic wii interface just about impossible for myself (apart from from wonderful white on white pointer), people didn't like that at all! Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, That's precisely what I am talking about. Having a page where people can look up largely universally accessible games, or stating in a review that game x is almost universally accessible. That is basically all I was getting at to begin with. Cheers! On 10/31/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > Well if in effect what we're saying is that textual games such as > gamebooks, brouser games etc are accessible to anyone with an alternative to > > read print even if they cannot hear, why not just have a page somewhere on > the site saying as much or note it in appropriate reviews of games. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Ah, that makes sense, and I agree that the person submitting the piece should do his or her best to spell check and proofread the document before submitting it to the editor for final editing and inclusion in a publication. On 10/31/13, dark wrote: > Hi Kara. > > What I meant is it is unfair to lumber an editer with the job of > spellchecking every single article. An editer certainly can check for > content or length or whatever, but just the dull mechanics of getting words > > spelt write is really up to the author. > > Heck, if you submitted an academic article for publication or even a marked > > peace of workk without! spellchecking you'd get a rejection in a hurry. > > Much as I admit I am absolutely casual about spellings on list etc, if your > > essentially writing a publication you need to write at publication > standard. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Tom. Well if in effect what we're saying is that textual games such as gamebooks, brouser games etc are accessible to anyone with an alternative to read print even if they cannot hear, why not just have a page somewhere on the site saying as much or note it in appropriate reviews of games. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Kara. What I meant is it is unfair to lumber an editer with the job of spellchecking every single article. An editer certainly can check for content or length or whatever, but just the dull mechanics of getting words spelt write is really up to the author. Heck, if you submitted an academic article for publication or even a marked peace of workk without! spellchecking you'd get a rejection in a hurry. Much as I admit I am absolutely casual about spellings on list etc, if your essentially writing a publication you need to write at publication standard. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
You state: "In Britain anything designed for "the blind" is automatically aimed at the over 70's more often than not, and frankly though there are some games with that ethos they're not the ones I play or am interested in, indeed had shades of doom struck me as being aimed at "the blind" I likely wouldn't have got into audio games at all." Whose fault is it that what is produced for blind people in Britain are produced for the older people? It is the fault of those who produce the stuff. As for Shades of Doom drawing your attention to it, and getting you into playing games, this was a good thing, wasn't it? Why take a negative attitude toward games geared toward people who cannot see to play mainstream games? I see it as being positive. As for what is produced, the producers should listen to the potential customers rather than the stick-in-the-muds of ancient stereotypical history of ignorance. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charlse. when it comes to games like swamp, shades of doom etc, I disagree they are! designed for "the blind" as you ubiquitously put it. In britain anything designed for "the blind" is automatically aimed at the over 70's more often than not, and frankly though there are some games with that ethos they're not the ones I play or am interested in, indeed had shades of doom struck me as being aimed at "the blind" I likely wouldn't have got into audio games at all. Plus, with how companies like somethinelse, choiceofgames, the developers of codenamesignas etc work for the Iphone they frankly don't! just make games for "the blind" Indeed to be perfectly honest charlse, I rather resent being grouped myself into a big "the blind" category. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Shaun, Sigh...I think you are making a big deal out of nothing. There are always solutions for the things you seem to think are barriers to developing high quality accessible games. Let's take licensing. If a developer is only interested in developing games based on trademarked and licensed characters like Star Wars, Star Trek, DC Comics, Harry Potter, whatever then he or she is out of luck. However, a creative and relatively intelligent game developer doesn't need to use those licenses to create good games. All he or she needs to do is use them as a template as for the type of game they want to create and then use their own ideas and imagination to come up with something similar but different. Then, there will be no licenses involved. As far a other disabilities goes there are already some types of games with a high degree of accessibility for a number of groups. No game is 100% accessible to everyone, but I know of a number of games such as browser based, text based, etc that could be seen as having near universal accessibility as they can equally be played by someone who is blind, deaf, motion impaired, sighted, etc. It is merely a matter of trying to maximize the number of groups that the product can support without much effort on the developers part. Cheers! On 10/30/13, shaun everiss wrote: > I aggree fully with tom. > now question is how do we do that. > firstly other disabilities. > I know of them physical, interlectial and a few other things. > I do not know how to adapt for them though and even if we did that, > how would get abled people on our side in a big way. > Ideally we need the power and cash for sound licencing and other > licencing as well as any suits and legal ranglings we need to handle > in the real world. > Lets face it we don't have the resources to even come close to licencing. > And if we get sued we have to fall over and grovel like the poor > helpless blind we are! > I am not sure how we can build the power to hold our own but right > now we may as well shoot fish in a barrel. > The only reason we are not being sued left and right and centre is we > are viewed as poor and helpless. > We are not worth bothering with. > Now what happens when we become worth bothering with. > Thats fine if we can fight back but I doubt we can or at least a > single of us could even for normals its like this but what sort of > group could be able to handle a fight should we need it to. > I am not sure about all of us but quite a few of us are actually > getting support from the governments of our country so in essence the > government tells us what we do or they stop helping. > If we can't stand on our own what chance do we have of becoming to > well known and not being able to tish out the punnishment ourselves. > it may be better to be poor and helpless because no one hardly does > dish on us right now. > And if we wish to become well known we will need to or bump into > this more frequently and sooner rather than later. > Even the normal powerfulls fight sometimes they loose sometimes they win. > d difference is if they win or loose they may loose reputation and > some cash but can for the most part continue fighting. > If we ever got to the point even if we were able to fight, if we > lost, then thats it we would probably be done. > And it would have to be a big group. > World wide we may have a chance but who knows. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Who did David Greenwood have in mind as a target market when he developed Shades of Doom? Who did he advertise it toward? It is a game designed for people who cannot see, of which I am one. I see no problem with being classified as a blind person. After all, my amount of vision is 0 over 0. No doubt about it, and I am not one bit ashamed of saying so, I! am! blind! There is no getting around the fact that I can not see anything through my eyes. SOD was designed for people whose eyes do not give feedback to the brain. As for being in a "group", who does that? Other people. I do not mind be categorized as a blind person, because, after all, I cannot see a darned thing. I do not like being stereotyped as haven to be spoken to at a high volume, being retarded mentally, or other such garbage because I am blind, but that is something else entirely. Some games for the iPhone are not designed with blind people in mind, but blind people can play them. But some game developers have developed games specifically for people who cannot see. I see nothing wrong with that. Fact is, I greatly appreciate it. I also appreciate games for iDevices that just happen to be playable by blind people. I refer to blind people not ubiquitously, but specifically and honestly. They are people who cannot see. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charlse. when it comes to games like swamp, shades of doom etc, I disagree they are! designed for "the blind" as you ubiquitously put it. In britain anything designed for "the blind" is automatically aimed at the over 70's more often than not, and frankly though there are some games with that ethos they're not the ones I play or am interested in, indeed had shades of doom struck me as being aimed at "the blind" I likely wouldn't have got into audio games at all. Plus, with how companies like somethinelse, choiceofgames, the developers of codenamesignas etc work for the Iphone they frankly don't! just make games for "the blind" Indeed to be perfectly honest charlse, I rather resent being grouped myself into a big "the blind" category. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Woe, let's slow down a bit here. I don't think I was actually suggesting creating sections for one switch games, closed captioning, and so on. Those are important, but as you said they are discussed elsewhere. I was thinking more in terms of having sections of games that are more universal in terms of accessibility such as gamebooks that are accessible to blind, deaf, and sighted user's alike without necessarily creating specific sections for one switch, motion impaired, closed captioning, etc as all of those categories would more or less be covered by that one genre of game. Something like Sryth by its very nature would be accessible to multiple disabilities than would be Shades of Doom or Tank Commander which target blind users with reasonably good hearing. Sryth is not 100% accessible to everyone, but because the medium is mostly text based it is reasonably accessible to blind, deaf, motion impaired, and sighted alike without having to do anything to specialize it for people with special needs. Therefore I would put it in a section of games with almost universal accessibility. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > While I do see your point about access for people with other disabilities, > with respect I don't entirely agree that this is something we particularly > need to do simply because there are many places it's done already. > > go to a site like able games, penny arcade or even retroremakes, and there > is plenty of information for gamers with motion imparements. Lots of games > have one switch or mouse control, or close captioning or similar none sound > > options for deaf gamers, (as indeed there should be), yet there is nothing > > at all about access for vi or blind gamers, indeed "colourblindness" is > about as far as such adaptations go. > > To show a great example of this, the game that won the 2008 retroremakes > accessibility competition was a game called pyramid that was entirely > graphical! it had innumerable customizations, control configurations, > options to play without sound, but was utterly and completely inaccessible > if you couldn't see the graphics, indeed even for me with my level of > sight I had to specifically write to the developers to request a menue > description of the huge huge huge! textual menue in the game in order to > > try it. > > Of course not every game can be accessible to everyone, but it does seem > some sorts of accessibility get far more publicity than others. > > Of course there are likely social reasons for this, the distinctly > misleading term "video games" which makes games sound implicitely! > inaccessible to visually impared people the way the visual arts are, the > higher proportion of younger people with motion or hearing imparements, the > > fact that "disability" in general social consciousness is always associated > > with a wheel chair etc, however for this reason I don't necessarily feel we, > > say need to start writing specificc sections of the audeasy site about > motion imparement access, alternative control schemes, text alternatives > tosound etc. > > Of course we certainly could! note in individual game reviews how different > > games might have access features that appeal to other groups of disabled > gamers, eg, text games for people who are deaf and blind, orcodename signus > > use of voice control, but I wouldn't suggest say making a major section on > close captioning for audeasy, since that sort of thing is coered extensively > > elsewhere, and after all sites like oneswitch.co.uk have far more expertees > > and do a much better job than we could on such matters anyway. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, Definitely true. No game in the universe is 100% accessible to everyone else in the world. It can be something as simple as the menus and status messages being in a different language, or something more complex like an audio game being accessible to a blind player but not a deaf one. There is no way humanly possible to write something that is 100% accessible to everyone at the same time. Therefore accessibility needs to be discussed in terms of the group or groups being targeted. On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Darren. > > I don't think any game in the entire universe is accessible to everyone! > that's just how things are. > > Even something like the gaembooks on the ff project couldn't be played by > dislexic person. > > I'd myself simply talk about games being "accessible to" different > disabilities. gma tank commander is an audio game so it is accessible to > blind and vi gamers. The close captioned version of Doom 3 has full text > output so is accessible to deaf gamers etc. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi, Yeah, I don't really get Dark's comment either. The purpose of an editor is to correct spelling mistakes, correct punctuation mistakes, and occasional correct a grammatical error or two when they happen. I know for instance in reading the mails from this list on a daily basis that some people often use me when they should use I or they use a double negative in a sentence etc. Those kinds of mistakes should be corrected before publication, and any editor worth his/her salt will find and correct such mistakes in any article, review, or news release intended to be published. So I'm not sure why Dark thinks it is so unfair for an editor to do what is basically his/her job anyway. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Cara Quinn wrote: > Dark, you say it is unfair for an editor to need to wade through an article > to edit it? > > Sorry, but that's any editor's job. ;) > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding here, so apologies if that's the case. > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Cara, Well, that is an interesting suggestion to be sure. One advantage to havig a blog such as Wordpress is that people could leave feedback for the author's and comment on reviews, articles, news postings, etc. Cheers! On 10/31/13, Cara Quinn wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > One idea is to have Audyssey articles be blog postings and have the magazine > in its entirety either be links to those articles or have those articles be > arranged on a single web page. > > This would be good on many levels, as not only would the entire issue be > available for those who may want to read it all at once, and also each > individual article could be an individual blog post every few days. So The > magazine could be posted, and following that, each individual article could > be posted to the blog for those who might like to have small doses filling > the time between issues. > > Also, with this model, links could be posted easily to Twitter / FaceBook > etc. One link for the entire mag, and a link to each blog post when it comes > out. > > this would make for a great experience to satisfy many types of readers. > Those who didn't have time or the desire to read the entire magazine, could > have many articles more often. > > Additionally, as has been mentioned here, any audio addenda to the mag, > could also be posted with the magazine as well as sent out along with each > blog posting. > > Does this make sense? > > This way, each issue would come out, and then there would be a steady stream > of material which could be automated to be posted every so often to keep the > activity going until the next issue of the magazine comes out. Who ever > assembles the magazine could simply queue up the articles and the blog > client could be set to post different articles on different dates. > > What are people's thoughts?… > > Have a great night, > > cara :) > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Thomas, One idea is to have Audyssey articles be blog postings and have the magazine in its entirety either be links to those articles or have those articles be arranged on a single web page. This would be good on many levels, as not only would the entire issue be available for those who may want to read it all at once, and also each individual article could be an individual blog post every few days. So The magazine could be posted, and following that, each individual article could be posted to the blog for those who might like to have small doses filling the time between issues. Also, with this model, links could be posted easily to Twitter / FaceBook etc. One link for the entire mag, and a link to each blog post when it comes out. this would make for a great experience to satisfy many types of readers. Those who didn't have time or the desire to read the entire magazine, could have many articles more often. Additionally, as has been mentioned here, any audio addenda to the mag, could also be posted with the magazine as well as sent out along with each blog posting. Does this make sense? This way, each issue would come out, and then there would be a steady stream of material which could be automated to be posted every so often to keep the activity going until the next issue of the magazine comes out. Who ever assembles the magazine could simply queue up the articles and the blog client could be set to post different articles on different dates. What are people's thoughts?… Have a great night, cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Oct 29, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, No offense I don't think many sited people would join this list. Mailing lists are for the most part a thing of the past in the minds of most people today. No one wants their email inboxes filled up with messages on topics they may or may not have any interest in. That's why I think we need to expand into other social media outlets such as have a Facebook or Twitter presence, or a blog. Those are the sorts of things that sighted people are drawn to because they can read the topics of interest to them, and don't have to get anywhere from 25 to 50 emails from this list in their inbox. Our target audience is changing and if we want to continue to be relevant we need to change with them. Cheers! On 10/29/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > Spreading the word through tools available on the Web is a good idea. Any > form that draws, go for it. I actually think it would be great to have > sighted people subscribe to this list as well. Maybe game developers could > > find out about what's done by and for blind gamers and developers, and more > > game could become of it. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Dark, you say it is unfair for an editor to need to wade through an article to edit it? Sorry, but that's any editor's job. ;) Maybe I'm misunderstanding here, so apologies if that's the case. Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Oct 29, 2013, at 7:37 AM, dark wrote: With respect charles,I disagree on the spelling and grammar front, both because A, it's unfair for the poor editer to have to sit and wade through such a dull task, and B, because I don't want my words americanised in grammar or spelling. Albeit I do agree that anyone submitting an article should spellcheck it first and the editer is quite within their rights to tell someone to go off and spellcheck if they haven't. I've actually recently been writing book reviews for http://www.fantasybookreview.co.uk/ and of course, I spell check before posting there, but equally I do use British spelling and grammar and write individualistically. As an example, in British grammar it is utterly in correct to say "you can write me on my E-mail address if you have questions" to me that sounds utterly wrong! the wording I'd use is "write to! me" Neither is absolutely %100 correct, indeed it depends which part of the atlantic your on, but I'd not want someone forcing their words on me just as equally as I suspect if Americans were submitting to a British editer they wouldn't want the same. Interestingly enough, apparently Terry Pratchett has very similar arguements whenever his Us publisher sends him draughts of his books to be published in America, and apparently he's got quite justifyably irritated on the subject. Regarding an audio presentation, well not everyone has the ability to reccord podcasts. I'd certainly not be against the idea as perhaps a second publication to audeasy (particularly since sites like blindcooltec and main menue no longer seem to be accepting podcasts on games etc), however I'd suggest it be at most an accompanyment! to the magazine, not a replacement. After all everyone has the ability to write even if everyone doesn't have the equipment or ability to reccord podcasts. Beware the Grue! DArk. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Darren. I don't think any game in the entire universe is accessible to everyone! that's just how things are. Even something like the gaembooks on the ff project couldn't be played by dislexic person. I'd myself simply talk about games being "accessible to" different disabilities. gma tank commander is an audio game so it is accessible to blind and vi gamers. The close captioned version of Doom 3 has full text output so is accessible to deaf gamers etc. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Tom. While I do see your point about access for people with other disabilities, with respect I don't entirely agree that this is something we particularly need to do simply because there are many places it's done already. go to a site like able games, penny arcade or even retroremakes, and there is plenty of information for gamers with motion imparements. Lots of games have one switch or mouse control, or close captioning or similar none sound options for deaf gamers, (as indeed there should be), yet there is nothing at all about access for vi or blind gamers, indeed "colourblindness" is about as far as such adaptations go. To show a great example of this, the game that won the 2008 retroremakes accessibility competition was a game called pyramid that was entirely graphical! it had innumerable customizations, control configurations, options to play without sound, but was utterly and completely inaccessible if you couldn't see the graphics, indeed even for me with my level of sight I had to specifically write to the developers to request a menue description of the huge huge huge! textual menue in the game in order to try it. Of course not every game can be accessible to everyone, but it does seem some sorts of accessibility get far more publicity than others. Of course there are likely social reasons for this, the distinctly misleading term "video games" which makes games sound implicitely! inaccessible to visually impared people the way the visual arts are, the higher proportion of younger people with motion or hearing imparements, the fact that "disability" in general social consciousness is always associated with a wheel chair etc, however for this reason I don't necessarily feel we, say need to start writing specificc sections of the audeasy site about motion imparement access, alternative control schemes, text alternatives tosound etc. Of course we certainly could! note in individual game reviews how different games might have access features that appeal to other groups of disabled gamers, eg, text games for people who are deaf and blind, orcodename signus use of voice control, but I wouldn't suggest say making a major section on close captioning for audeasy, since that sort of thing is coered extensively elsewhere, and after all sites like oneswitch.co.uk have far more expertees and do a much better job than we could on such matters anyway. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Charlse. when it comes to games like swamp, shades of doom etc, I disagree they are! designed for "the blind" as you ubiquitously put it. In britain anything designed for "the blind" is automatically aimed at the over 70's more often than not, and frankly though there are some games with that ethos they're not the ones I play or am interested in, indeed had shades of doom struck me as being aimed at "the blind" I likely wouldn't have got into audio games at all. Plus, with how companies like somethinelse, choiceofgames, the developers of codenamesignas etc work for the Iphone they frankly don't! just make games for "the blind" Indeed to be perfectly honest charlse, I rather resent being grouped myself into a big "the blind" category. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi dentin well anything helps. If people can host the text at least and anything else for close to free if they have enough space on their sites and we can get some mirrors going that will help. It won't be everything though if we are going to stand on our own we will eventually need to use more than free mirrors and such though getting this started is definatly a good push in the right direction especailly if community members can contribute in this way as well as others. At 09:52 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: I've actually got an archive copy of the first 54 audyssey releases on the main alter aeon server. I grabbed it a few years ago when there was some concern about people mirroring it, or if it was even around anymore. I plan to be around for quite a few years, and could host the site if the community wants to do it. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 1:47 PM, shaun everiss wrote: > ron what about sending the list 55 if its finnished at least we get 1 normal > issue this year if its ready. > after that though we will need to get our act together on what to do with > it. > All issues should still be downloadable as text and things. > My idea for the cast could either be. > 1. a pdcast as seperate to the mag, or a podcast that came with the > magazine archive obviously you would have the ability to just get text. > We should also work on exclusive content. > stuff that just is not published anywhere else or at least have a deal with > devs to publish stuff they want on the same day the mags came out or a day > after it all came out so then we would get a bigger base of things. > A lot of stuff that appears in the mag is already out there in advance of > the mag. > some of it should be out when the mag is round or stuff set to be realeased > at magazine publication. > then there would be the need to read it. > that could be hard but even so. > > At 04:13 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: >> >> Hi Tom >> >> For sure I'll send out 55 to you shortly and by all means we can >> colaberate on having Audyssey rise again like the phoenix. >> Talk soon >> >> >> On 30-Oct-2013 1:05 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ron, >>> >>> If you'd be willing to collaborate on it you could send me what you >>> have for issue 55 and I can begin converting it into HTML, and >>> convert it into an online e-zine with links and so forth. I have some >>> ideas where to take the magazine and perhaps you and I can work off >>> list on it together to breath new life into the magazine. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
tell me about it mate. all the big guys spend half the time out doing each other and half the time knocking the stuffing out of eachother and anyone in range. At 09:45 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Well we are in the age of the loyer these days and not in the age of common sense. Which is why people simply don't have a clue as to what to do when something goes wrong. That really is the long and the short of it. is it any wonder games are 5 minute wonders with the sorts of mentality we see these days. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 30 October 2013 20:32 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine well true. Ofcause a lot of people that are sighted wouldn't think twice about how bad some blind software is because its not for sighted. However I have used both sighted and blind enabled programs for admin and guess what the simpler programs without all the extra guff are more userfriendly and use less time to run so go figure. Sometimes I wander if those that don't have dissability just do things without thinking anymore. If you are not normal you tend to think within your limits and thus are usually better for it. For example if I am untidy I will trip and fall over. I can't be bothered cleaning up, so I try to make as little mess as I can in the first place so I don't need to bother much. I know I can't go off like that for no reason just because so I don't and take a more relaxed outlook. Those that are not otherwise challenged take so much for granted it is sometimes hard to think outside the ssquare. And if you are locked into your little pleasure box and have no need to leave then you don't. I know people born today don't know what to do if something breaks. replace it if it breaks. put in a disk and a reformat later its fixed. In the old days pre the net it was different. At 02:13 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: >I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put >on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game >there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can >play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and >this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech >blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. > >-Original Message- >From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward >Sent: 30 October 2013 12:30 >To: Gamers Discussion list >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine > >Hi Dark, > >I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the >descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly >considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to >focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as >long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our >own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to >interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and >interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers >yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them >here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to >be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, >interactive fiction, muds, and so on. > >Cheers! > >On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > > Hi Tom. > > > > While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same > > time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which > > directly buck this trend. > > > > Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a >large > > > > extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive > > audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. > > > > I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a >renaesance > > > > in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies >like > > > > big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and > > certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). > > > > It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could tap > > into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers >who > > > > are interested in audio atmosphere. > > > > Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually > > encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood > > entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the > > documentation), and describ
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Audio. Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 2:24 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine well I think the word blind could be substatuted as graphicless. after all being blind is in fact not far from the truth of being graphicless or imagless. We are for the most part only audio enabled. I joke with my computer and hacker friends when they ask me what is being blind like. And I say, no video card, no tv card, no screen just a box and speakers. At 01:44 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Tom. It is what I actually wrote in the 4th chapter of my phd. The over whelming social reaction to any sort of disability is that it's something different, that a person with none working body parts or a medical condition that causes them to live life differently is intrinsically another sort of human being, and the more people emphasise differences the more evident they may be. At the same timeI however, I do think it's legitimate to talk about "accessibility for blind/visually impared gamers" and to hold audio or text games responsable to include it. It's a balance question really, but certainly on the front of site, and in intraductory material access should come at the end of remarks about possibilities of text and audio, not at the start so that the games themselves are the focus not "blind gamers" Indeed, I personally really dislike any applying of the word blind to objects. Reever, My dog is a guide dog not a blind dog (a blind dog really wouldn't be much help with mobility), I do not have a blind computer, blind cane, or blind anything else. I have various peaces of equipment and software that assist me! to fulfill my desires in life as a visually impared individual, but since none of those things themselves can see, the word "blind" is incorrect to apply to them. Indeed if you don't mind me referring to my own research again, this is also why I would love to see the word "accessibility" become a more common one. After all, a person with a condition like dispraxia or dislexia who finds complex graphics and 3D spacial relations hard to comprehend would equally bennifit from audio and synthesisor friendly text based games. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I aggree fully with tom. now question is how do we do that. firstly other disabilities. I know of them physical, interlectial and a few other things. I do not know how to adapt for them though and even if we did that, how would get abled people on our side in a big way. Ideally we need the power and cash for sound licencing and other licencing as well as any suits and legal ranglings we need to handle in the real world. Lets face it we don't have the resources to even come close to licencing. And if we get sued we have to fall over and grovel like the poor helpless blind we are! I am not sure how we can build the power to hold our own but right now we may as well shoot fish in a barrel. The only reason we are not being sued left and right and centre is we are viewed as poor and helpless. We are not worth bothering with. Now what happens when we become worth bothering with. Thats fine if we can fight back but I doubt we can or at least a single of us could even for normals its like this but what sort of group could be able to handle a fight should we need it to. I am not sure about all of us but quite a few of us are actually getting support from the governments of our country so in essence the government tells us what we do or they stop helping. If we can't stand on our own what chance do we have of becoming to well known and not being able to tish out the punnishment ourselves. it may be better to be poor and helpless because no one hardly does dish on us right now. And if we wish to become well known we will need to or bump into this more frequently and sooner rather than later. Even the normal powerfulls fight sometimes they loose sometimes they win. d difference is if they win or loose they may loose reputation and some cash but can for the most part continue fighting. If we ever got to the point even if we were able to fight, if we lost, then thats it we would probably be done. And it would have to be a big group. World wide we may have a chance but who knows. At 04:45 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Charles, Well, that's precisely the problem. A lot of audio games etc are developed especially for the blind and while that does not in of itself preclude sighted users from playing the word blind has a negative stigma attached to it which can adversely effect their opinion of the game or games at hand. Take for instance the games like Run for President, Destination Mars, Atlantic City Blackjack, and so on. On the face of it those are just Dos text games with some sounds. If called text games a sighted user would accept it as that. Call them a "blind game" and immediately they will probably draw the wrong conclusion about the game and assume it is exclusively a blind thing which isn't true. The point being coming out and saying this or that game is made for the blind can and probably will carry negative connotations weather intended or not. What we need to do is use more inclusive language that makes sighted gamers share in our experience rather than isolate them. Make people aware they are accessible to a visually impaired user, but include it more as a feature rather than its soul purpose for existing. :D I think what we need to do here is broaden our horizons and go above and beyond thinking of just blind friendly games. We could do more to think about accessibility in general and how to bring together people with other disabilities too who may not be able to play standard mainstream games for some other reason besides blindness. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > That's because of who they are designed for. The blind. No negativity > intended. The problem might be the way in which the word "blind" is taken. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I've actually got an archive copy of the first 54 audyssey releases on the main alter aeon server. I grabbed it a few years ago when there was some concern about people mirroring it, or if it was even around anymore. I plan to be around for quite a few years, and could host the site if the community wants to do it. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 1:47 PM, shaun everiss wrote: > ron what about sending the list 55 if its finnished at least we get 1 normal > issue this year if its ready. > after that though we will need to get our act together on what to do with > it. > All issues should still be downloadable as text and things. > My idea for the cast could either be. > 1. a pdcast as seperate to the mag, or a podcast that came with the > magazine archive obviously you would have the ability to just get text. > We should also work on exclusive content. > stuff that just is not published anywhere else or at least have a deal with > devs to publish stuff they want on the same day the mags came out or a day > after it all came out so then we would get a bigger base of things. > A lot of stuff that appears in the mag is already out there in advance of > the mag. > some of it should be out when the mag is round or stuff set to be realeased > at magazine publication. > then there would be the need to read it. > that could be hard but even so. > > At 04:13 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: >> >> Hi Tom >> >> For sure I'll send out 55 to you shortly and by all means we can >> colaberate on having Audyssey rise again like the phoenix. >> Talk soon >> >> >> On 30-Oct-2013 1:05 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ron, >>> >>> If you'd be willing to collaborate on it you could send me what you >>> have for issue 55 and I can begin converting it into HTML, and >>> convert it into an online e-zine with links and so forth. I have some >>> ideas where to take the magazine and perhaps you and I can work off >>> list on it together to breath new life into the magazine. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
ron what about sending the list 55 if its finnished at least we get 1 normal issue this year if its ready. after that though we will need to get our act together on what to do with it. All issues should still be downloadable as text and things. My idea for the cast could either be. 1. a pdcast as seperate to the mag, or a podcast that came with the magazine archive obviously you would have the ability to just get text. We should also work on exclusive content. stuff that just is not published anywhere else or at least have a deal with devs to publish stuff they want on the same day the mags came out or a day after it all came out so then we would get a bigger base of things. A lot of stuff that appears in the mag is already out there in advance of the mag. some of it should be out when the mag is round or stuff set to be realeased at magazine publication. then there would be the need to read it. that could be hard but even so. At 04:13 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Tom For sure I'll send out 55 to you shortly and by all means we can colaberate on having Audyssey rise again like the phoenix. Talk soon On 30-Oct-2013 1:05 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Ron, If you'd be willing to collaborate on it you could send me what you have for issue 55 and I can begin converting it into HTML, and convert it into an online e-zine with links and so forth. I have some ideas where to take the magazine and perhaps you and I can work off list on it together to breath new life into the magazine. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Well we are in the age of the loyer these days and not in the age of common sense. Which is why people simply don't have a clue as to what to do when something goes wrong. That really is the long and the short of it. is it any wonder games are 5 minute wonders with the sorts of mentality we see these days. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 30 October 2013 20:32 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine well true. Ofcause a lot of people that are sighted wouldn't think twice about how bad some blind software is because its not for sighted. However I have used both sighted and blind enabled programs for admin and guess what the simpler programs without all the extra guff are more userfriendly and use less time to run so go figure. Sometimes I wander if those that don't have dissability just do things without thinking anymore. If you are not normal you tend to think within your limits and thus are usually better for it. For example if I am untidy I will trip and fall over. I can't be bothered cleaning up, so I try to make as little mess as I can in the first place so I don't need to bother much. I know I can't go off like that for no reason just because so I don't and take a more relaxed outlook. Those that are not otherwise challenged take so much for granted it is sometimes hard to think outside the ssquare. And if you are locked into your little pleasure box and have no need to leave then you don't. I know people born today don't know what to do if something breaks. replace it if it breaks. put in a disk and a reformat later its fixed. In the old days pre the net it was different. At 02:13 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: >I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put >on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game >there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can >play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and >this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech >blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. > >-Original Message- >From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward >Sent: 30 October 2013 12:30 >To: Gamers Discussion list >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine > >Hi Dark, > >I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the >descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly >considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to >focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as >long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our >own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to >interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and >interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers >yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them >here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to >be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, >interactive fiction, muds, and so on. > >Cheers! > >On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > > Hi Tom. > > > > While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same > > time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which > > directly buck this trend. > > > > Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a >large > > > > extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive > > audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. > > > > I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a >renaesance > > > > in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies >like > > > > big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and > > certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). > > > > It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could tap > > into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers >who > > > > are interested in audio atmosphere. > > > > Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually > > encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood > > entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the > > documentation), and described shades of doom as "an interactive survival > > horror trapped in pitch darkness" you'd probably get a lot more sighted > > gamers playing it. > > > > O
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I aggree. With the level of tech these days most things do work. I do mention it if I need to, navigation wise, tech wise and other things wise sertainly a different outlook. I never say because I am blind I am entitled to this or can't do that or don't need to do that though. In some cases like with my training excercise I may get in a position where I may have difficulties doing something or not able to do something if it needs me to see things. Classic point I need to do some holds. I can't tell the time for those and end up concentrating on how it hurts and such more than on what my time is. I do these with a stopwatch that beeps and counts back over speech. Straight away I am concentrating on that watch fully. So yes there are some points where you need to say I am blind and I can't do this or that or need to adapt that but you take it as it comes its likely not to be all of it or none of it. Being concious of being is fine but blabbing that you are as if you are some retard or some shop display model really does not make me that happy about doing so. You are blind so what. you are disabled so what. Ok if you were really disabled like really, really it would be different but if you can still function with little help and adaption to moderate help you can still go. I see no reason to banter blindness around. at least not as the main point a secondary is fine. At 04:01 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: The point is that there is way too much placed on that word. Yes i'm blind i don't care about saying that i an but i don't go about saying blind this blind that. It's silly. -original message- Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine From: "Charles Rivard" Date: 30:10:2013 2.52 pm That's because of who they are designed for. The blind. No negativity intended. The problem might be the way in which the word "blind" is taken. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Darren Harris" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine >I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put > on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game > there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can > play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and > this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech > blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. > > -Original Message- > From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: 30 October 2013 12:30 > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine > > Hi Dark, > > I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the > descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly > considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to > focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as > long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our > own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to > interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and > interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers > yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them > here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to > be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, > interactive fiction, muds, and so on. > > Cheers! > > On 10/30/13, dark wrote: >> Hi Tom. >> >> While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same >> time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which >> directly buck this trend. >> >> Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a > large >> >> extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive >> audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. >> >> I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a > renaesance >> >> in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies > like >> >> big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and >> certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). >> >> It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could >> tap >> into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers > who >> >> are interested in audio atmosphere. >> >> Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmos
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
well true. Ofcause a lot of people that are sighted wouldn't think twice about how bad some blind software is because its not for sighted. However I have used both sighted and blind enabled programs for admin and guess what the simpler programs without all the extra guff are more userfriendly and use less time to run so go figure. Sometimes I wander if those that don't have dissability just do things without thinking anymore. If you are not normal you tend to think within your limits and thus are usually better for it. For example if I am untidy I will trip and fall over. I can't be bothered cleaning up, so I try to make as little mess as I can in the first place so I don't need to bother much. I know I can't go off like that for no reason just because so I don't and take a more relaxed outlook. Those that are not otherwise challenged take so much for granted it is sometimes hard to think outside the ssquare. And if you are locked into your little pleasure box and have no need to leave then you don't. I know people born today don't know what to do if something breaks. replace it if it breaks. put in a disk and a reformat later its fixed. In the old days pre the net it was different. At 02:13 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 30 October 2013 12:30 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Dark, I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, interactive fiction, muds, and so on. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same > time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which > directly buck this trend. > > Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a large > > extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive > audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. > > I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a renaesance > > in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies like > > big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and > certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). > > It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could tap > into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers who > > are interested in audio atmosphere. > > Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually > encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood > entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the > documentation), and described shades of doom as "an interactive survival > horror trapped in pitch darkness" you'd probably get a lot more sighted > gamers playing it. > > Or to take another example, suppose you redesigned a casino game with full > voice acting, lots of audio ambience and drama like bits of description. So > > instead of being told "you draw a ten of spades" you get "the dealer's thin > > fingered hand flips a card kneetly out of the shoe and slips it across the > green base to you, it is the ten of spadess" > > Such a game could be billed as an audio ambience experience of a casino, as > > much as a numerical game of blackjack, and again, would have appeal to at > least a certain cross section of the sighted gaming public, just as textual > > games and gamebooks do to another. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
well I think the word blind could be substatuted as graphicless. after all being blind is in fact not far from the truth of being graphicless or imagless. We are for the most part only audio enabled. I joke with my computer and hacker friends when they ask me what is being blind like. And I say, no video card, no tv card, no screen just a box and speakers. At 01:44 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Tom. It is what I actually wrote in the 4th chapter of my phd. The over whelming social reaction to any sort of disability is that it's something different, that a person with none working body parts or a medical condition that causes them to live life differently is intrinsically another sort of human being, and the more people emphasise differences the more evident they may be. At the same timeI however, I do think it's legitimate to talk about "accessibility for blind/visually impared gamers" and to hold audio or text games responsable to include it. It's a balance question really, but certainly on the front of site, and in intraductory material access should come at the end of remarks about possibilities of text and audio, not at the start so that the games themselves are the focus not "blind gamers" Indeed, I personally really dislike any applying of the word blind to objects. Reever, My dog is a guide dog not a blind dog (a blind dog really wouldn't be much help with mobility), I do not have a blind computer, blind cane, or blind anything else. I have various peaces of equipment and software that assist me! to fulfill my desires in life as a visually impared individual, but since none of those things themselves can see, the word "blind" is incorrect to apply to them. Indeed if you don't mind me referring to my own research again, this is also why I would love to see the word "accessibility" become a more common one. After all, a person with a condition like dispraxia or dislexia who finds complex graphics and 3D spacial relations hard to comprehend would equally bennifit from audio and synthesisor friendly text based games. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
true tom and also blind games were vastly different from the sighted. That gap is largly no more. Yes there is still a difference but we are finally after quite a few years are close enough that we have the same level of tech the sighted has with maybe a few less things with graphics and3d fx even so we are close enough to be within the range of the sighted world now if not in some cases over it. At 01:29 AM 10/31/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, interactive fiction, muds, and so on. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same > time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which > directly buck this trend. > > Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a large > > extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive > audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. > > I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a renaesance > > in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies like > > big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and > certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). > > It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could tap > into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers who > > are interested in audio atmosphere. > > Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually > encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood > entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the > documentation), and described shades of doom as "an interactive survival > horror trapped in pitch darkness" you'd probably get a lot more sighted > gamers playing it. > > Or to take another example, suppose you redesigned a casino game with full > voice acting, lots of audio ambience and drama like bits of description. So > > instead of being told "you draw a ten of spades" you get "the dealer's thin > > fingered hand flips a card kneetly out of the shoe and slips it across the > green base to you, it is the ten of spadess" > > Such a game could be billed as an audio ambience experience of a casino, as > > much as a numerical game of blackjack, and again, would have appeal to at > least a certain cross section of the sighted gaming public, just as textual > > games and gamebooks do to another. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
thats all well and good darren but my sighted friends like moving graphics, there are other things to. The issue with audio games in general if we want to keep them blind friendly is they need to be restricted. No blind or disabled or at least not many would have the state of the art i7 with 16 gb ram a couple tb hard drive space and the soundcard and high quality video cards. Ok, maybe the cpu but sertainly not the cards. Lets face it, the sound cards and video cards in stock systems are crap but to get their better counterparts depending where you live can cost a load. Then there is the cost of the net and such, nz seems to have one of the most expensive nets I know of but even so, we can take it that no one will have the latest hardware. so we are talking at best i3-i7 or celeron. 2-8gb ram And maybe a dedicated graphics but probably not sound. At worst we are looking at core2 duos with 2gb or less or single cores 1gb and less. As for systems win 7 8 8.1 maybe. however if you are a gamer like me with old programs you tend to hang on to that slightly broken laptop with xp a bit longer than is necessary. With people like me though you may upgrade for security and stuff you don't really use that new system till the old one fails and even then if an os still works you don't really leave it. Xp will drop support next year but this system will still be in full use. I have a win7 system that yes at 32 bit I can play games with, but not the same. Eventually I may get a vm or a server with many oses but who actually knows how far that will go though that may be closer than I think it may be. Point to my message is the blind user gamer and general will not unless he has to or his stuff explodes on him taking half his face off in the process upgrade or at least fully upgrade unless he really, really has to especially when his system and what he does does not need the extra security or power. A simular situation is going with my dad. His power fan is dieing, and so he is going to upgrade the system but not only does he not need a new os but what he has done has not changed for the last 30 years. Within the next few years he will reach the age where he doesn't need to work. I know what happened with me when I left uni. At uni I demanded office, and a load of apps. email, extra programming things. When I left uni, I did a cleanout, a reformat and reloaded things. most of what I loaded, most of what I brought is now sold, in the bin or in a dusty drawer. half of what I used I don't. eudora7, 7zip, notepad, ie and winamp are about the only things I need to use on a daily basis. If i need office I still have an old crappy but valid xp disk. I don't nore care to upgrade to a ribbon rich interface when I do not need to. And thats the same thing with gamers. we can not expect them to use the latest and greatest, we need to always be a step behind. So once we are all 64 bit it maybe the 128 bit stage or something like this. At 08:50 PM 10/30/2013, you wrote: hi tom you could use stattic graphics in the game to illustrate a given situation. so as well as a bang that you'd hear you'd see a static version of the explosion as well. a few games use this tactic as well and this also has encouraged people to write in and submit additional graphical content. as long as the textual descriptions were still there it wouldn't take anything away from the game. Sent from my iPad > On 30 Oct 2013, at 07:33, Thomas Ward wrote: > > Hi Shaun, > > I agree the best of both worlds are highbred's like Destination Mars > or Dodge City Desperados precisely because they don't need lots of > graphics, are fully accessible using a screen reader, and still have > plenty of game sounds etc to qualify as an audio game. Interesting > enough I have been doing some research in this area, and I've noticed > a sighted gamer is more likely to sit down and play a game like > Atlantic City Blackjack which has text on screen rather than Jim > Kitchen's Blackjack which uses speech output. What I am beginning to > conclude is sighted people are really put off when there is nothing on > the screen to look at, they hate a black screen, but give them a bit > of text to read and they'll play it.So adding text will go a long ways > to giving sighted gamers something to look at instead of graphics. > > Cheers! > > > >> On 10/30/13, shaun everiss wrote: >> hmmm I am interested in hybred games. >> audio and text would make best of both worlds. >> voiceovers and such to maybe if we can handle it to with audio and >> also spoken text that appears on screen a screenreader can read who knows. >> Pure text maybe depends what the game is. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
well thats good tom but if this could progress to more advanced games like shooters and such at least for sighted who knows. those games for what they are are good to waste 30 mins of time but not much more than that. I usually pull these out when I can't be bothered playing audio games with headphones like the time my ears got blocked. For small time wasters they are good this way but for big time wasters I guess if all games if all they did at least for text output what was spoken to the screen even if they used sapi that would work but I have no idea how to make things go. We also need to get into screen readers doing the text like nvda more as we can then use our synths and such and be sapi indipendant. Which would make the games more portable. At 08:33 PM 10/30/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, I agree the best of both worlds are highbred's like Destination Mars or Dodge City Desperados precisely because they don't need lots of graphics, are fully accessible using a screen reader, and still have plenty of game sounds etc to qualify as an audio game. Interesting enough I have been doing some research in this area, and I've noticed a sighted gamer is more likely to sit down and play a game like Atlantic City Blackjack which has text on screen rather than Jim Kitchen's Blackjack which uses speech output. What I am beginning to conclude is sighted people are really put off when there is nothing on the screen to look at, they hate a black screen, but give them a bit of text to read and they'll play it.So adding text will go a long ways to giving sighted gamers something to look at instead of graphics. Cheers! On 10/30/13, shaun everiss wrote: > hmmm I am interested in hybred games. > audio and text would make best of both worlds. > voiceovers and such to maybe if we can handle it to with audio and > also spoken text that appears on screen a screenreader can read who knows. > Pure text maybe depends what the game is. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Good points that I do see. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Charles, Well, that's precisely the problem. A lot of audio games etc are developed especially for the blind and while that does not in of itself preclude sighted users from playing the word blind has a negative stigma attached to it which can adversely effect their opinion of the game or games at hand. Take for instance the games like Run for President, Destination Mars, Atlantic City Blackjack, and so on. On the face of it those are just Dos text games with some sounds. If called text games a sighted user would accept it as that. Call them a "blind game" and immediately they will probably draw the wrong conclusion about the game and assume it is exclusively a blind thing which isn't true. The point being coming out and saying this or that game is made for the blind can and probably will carry negative connotations weather intended or not. What we need to do is use more inclusive language that makes sighted gamers share in our experience rather than isolate them. Make people aware they are accessible to a visually impaired user, but include it more as a feature rather than its soul purpose for existing. :D I think what we need to do here is broaden our horizons and go above and beyond thinking of just blind friendly games. We could do more to think about accessibility in general and how to bring together people with other disabilities too who may not be able to play standard mainstream games for some other reason besides blindness. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Charles Rivard wrote: That's because of who they are designed for. The blind. No negativity intended. The problem might be the way in which the word "blind" is taken. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Always assuming of course that they can get past the lack of graphical cues for what's going on. Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Dark, That is pretty much how I feel about it as well. I don't have a problem with stating that a game is accessible to blind gamers as long as it is written in such a way to make sighted mainstream gamers aware that the game is playable by them as well. The point is not to emphasize the blind friendly design over all else. Take for example a game like Sryth. Now, that happens to be a standard mainstream browser based game that happens to be accessible to the blind. The difference is how it is presented to its customers. If the author had advertised it as this new fangled blind browser based RPG chances are many sighted players would have given it a pass just because it was advertised as being exclusively for the blind. However, since it was marketed as a mainstream game and it was accessible Sryth benefits from a wide range of sighted and blind players on a regular basis. I think we need to begin developing games with a more mainstream audience in mind while keeping accessibility standards high. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: Hi Tom. It is what I actually wrote in the 4th chapter of my phd. The over whelming social reaction to any sort of disability is that it's something different, that a person with none working body parts or a medical condition that causes them to live life differently is intrinsically another sort of human being, and the more people emphasise differences the more evident they may be. At the same timeI however, I do think it's legitimate to talk about "accessibility for blind/visually impared gamers" and to hold audio or text games responsable to include it. It's a balance question really, but certainly on the front of site, and in intraductory material access should come at the end of remarks about possibilities of text and audio, not at the start so that the games themselves are the focus not "blind gamers" Indeed, I personally really dislike any applying of the word blind to objects. Reever, My dog is a guide dog not a blind dog (a blind dog really wouldn't be much help with mobility), I do not have a blind computer, blind cane, or blind anything else. I have various peaces of equipment and software that assist me! to fulfill my desires in life as a visually impared individual, but since none of those things themselves can see, the word "blind" is incorrect to apply to them. Indeed if you don't mind me referring to my own research again, this is also why I would love to see the word "accessibility" become a more common one. After all, a person with a condition like dispraxia or dislexia who finds complex graphics and 3D spacial relations hard to comprehend would equally bennifit from audio and synthesisor friendly text based games. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, That is pretty much how I feel about it as well. I don't have a problem with stating that a game is accessible to blind gamers as long as it is written in such a way to make sighted mainstream gamers aware that the game is playable by them as well. The point is not to emphasize the blind friendly design over all else. Take for example a game like Sryth. Now, that happens to be a standard mainstream browser based game that happens to be accessible to the blind. The difference is how it is presented to its customers. If the author had advertised it as this new fangled blind browser based RPG chances are many sighted players would have given it a pass just because it was advertised as being exclusively for the blind. However, since it was marketed as a mainstream game and it was accessible Sryth benefits from a wide range of sighted and blind players on a regular basis. I think we need to begin developing games with a more mainstream audience in mind while keeping accessibility standards high. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > It is what I actually wrote in the 4th chapter of my phd. The over whelming > > social reaction to any sort of disability is that it's something different, > > that a person with none working body parts or a medical condition that > causes them to live life differently is intrinsically another sort of human > > being, and the more people emphasise differences the more evident they may > be. > > At the same timeI however, I do think it's legitimate to talk about > "accessibility for blind/visually impared gamers" and to hold audio or text > > games responsable to include it. > > It's a balance question really, but certainly on the front of site, and in > intraductory material access should come at the end of remarks about > possibilities of text and audio, not at the start so that the games > themselves are the focus not "blind gamers" > > Indeed, I personally really dislike any applying of the word blind to > objects. Reever, My dog is a guide dog not a blind dog (a blind dog really > wouldn't be much help with mobility), I do not have a blind computer, blind > > cane, or blind anything else. > > I have various peaces of equipment and software that assist me! to fulfill > my desires in life as a visually impared individual, but since none of those > > things themselves can see, the word "blind" is incorrect to apply to them. > > Indeed if you don't mind me referring to my own research again, this is also > > why I would love to see the word "accessibility" become a more common one. > After all, a person with a condition like dispraxia or dislexia who finds > complex graphics and 3D spacial relations hard to comprehend would equally > bennifit from audio and synthesisor friendly text based games. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Yes exactly. Things do need to be opened up there for sure. The mag does need revamping, it needs propper distribution and it needs to attract attention. If this isn't done then its pointless and a waste of time doing the mag at all. -original message- Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine From: Thomas Ward Date: 30:10:2013 3.57 pm Hi Darren, Yes, exactly. I cringe every time I see a site calling itself Blind Software, Blind Bargains, Blind Games, or anything else that advertises a blind specific clientele. I think too much emphasis is made on the fact that the website caters to the blind, and we end up shutting out sighted and other people with disabilities who could benefit from the same software just by advertising our products and services that way. I know a lot of the stuff Justin wrote and sold on Blindsoftware.com wasn't necessarily blind specific. Most of those apps had fully featured graphical user interfaces, and could have been sold to a much wider range of customers than just the blind. Why Justin emphasized they were blind software is anyone's guess, but I always thought he would have been better off naming his website BSC Software or something like that which would sound both professional and avoid the stigma of selling software made specifically for the blind. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Darren Harris wrote: > I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put > on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game > there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can > play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and > this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech > blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Darren, I would classify Tank Commander as an audio game. That would let the end user know right away that the primary medium of interaction is audio rather than visual, and there is no text or braille available for deaf-blind or deaf players. So the term accessibility is one with specific application in that case. Cheers! On 10/30/13, darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: > Exactly. The main reason why for example i would call games like tank > commander blind friendly and not accessible is because they are not > accessible to some groups. How would a def blind person play that game? They > couldn't because if memory serves there is no text generated to send to a > brail display. so you can't use an inclusive word like accessible games in > situations like that. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Darren, Yes, exactly. I cringe every time I see a site calling itself Blind Software, Blind Bargains, Blind Games, or anything else that advertises a blind specific clientele. I think too much emphasis is made on the fact that the website caters to the blind, and we end up shutting out sighted and other people with disabilities who could benefit from the same software just by advertising our products and services that way. I know a lot of the stuff Justin wrote and sold on Blindsoftware.com wasn't necessarily blind specific. Most of those apps had fully featured graphical user interfaces, and could have been sold to a much wider range of customers than just the blind. Why Justin emphasized they were blind software is anyone's guess, but I always thought he would have been better off naming his website BSC Software or something like that which would sound both professional and avoid the stigma of selling software made specifically for the blind. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Darren Harris wrote: > I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put > on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game > there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can > play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and > this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech > blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Exactly. The main reason why for example i would call games like tank commander blind friendly and not accessible is because they are not accessible to some groups. How would a def blind person play that game? They couldn't because if memory serves there is no text generated to send to a brail display. so you can't use an inclusive word like accessible games in situations like that. -original message- Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine From: Thomas Ward Date: 30:10:2013 3.45 pm Hi Charles, Well, that's precisely the problem. A lot of audio games etc are developed especially for the blind and while that does not in of itself preclude sighted users from playing the word blind has a negative stigma attached to it which can adversely effect their opinion of the game or games at hand. Take for instance the games like Run for President, Destination Mars, Atlantic City Blackjack, and so on. On the face of it those are just Dos text games with some sounds. If called text games a sighted user would accept it as that. Call them a "blind game" and immediately they will probably draw the wrong conclusion about the game and assume it is exclusively a blind thing which isn't true. The point being coming out and saying this or that game is made for the blind can and probably will carry negative connotations weather intended or not. What we need to do is use more inclusive language that makes sighted gamers share in our experience rather than isolate them. Make people aware they are accessible to a visually impaired user, but include it more as a feature rather than its soul purpose for existing. :D I think what we need to do here is broaden our horizons and go above and beyond thinking of just blind friendly games. We could do more to think about accessibility in general and how to bring together people with other disabilities too who may not be able to play standard mainstream games for some other reason besides blindness. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > That's because of who they are designed for. The blind. No negativity > intended. The problem might be the way in which the word "blind" is taken. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Charles, Well, that's precisely the problem. A lot of audio games etc are developed especially for the blind and while that does not in of itself preclude sighted users from playing the word blind has a negative stigma attached to it which can adversely effect their opinion of the game or games at hand. Take for instance the games like Run for President, Destination Mars, Atlantic City Blackjack, and so on. On the face of it those are just Dos text games with some sounds. If called text games a sighted user would accept it as that. Call them a "blind game" and immediately they will probably draw the wrong conclusion about the game and assume it is exclusively a blind thing which isn't true. The point being coming out and saying this or that game is made for the blind can and probably will carry negative connotations weather intended or not. What we need to do is use more inclusive language that makes sighted gamers share in our experience rather than isolate them. Make people aware they are accessible to a visually impaired user, but include it more as a feature rather than its soul purpose for existing. :D I think what we need to do here is broaden our horizons and go above and beyond thinking of just blind friendly games. We could do more to think about accessibility in general and how to bring together people with other disabilities too who may not be able to play standard mainstream games for some other reason besides blindness. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > That's because of who they are designed for. The blind. No negativity > intended. The problem might be the way in which the word "blind" is taken. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Darren, Agreed. I don't might tellig people I am blind, but I don't go around actively labeling thing with the blind label either such as blind games, blind computer software, blind computer, whatever. That's a bit silly. On 10/30/13, darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: > The point is that there is way too much placed on that word. Yes i'm blind i > don't care about saying that i an but i don't go about saying blind this > blind that. It's silly. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Tom For sure I'll send out 55 to you shortly and by all means we can colaberate on having Audyssey rise again like the phoenix. Talk soon On 30-Oct-2013 1:05 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Ron, If you'd be willing to collaborate on it you could send me what you have for issue 55 and I can begin converting it into HTML, and convert it into an online e-zine with links and so forth. I have some ideas where to take the magazine and perhaps you and I can work off list on it together to breath new life into the magazine. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
The point is that there is way too much placed on that word. Yes i'm blind i don't care about saying that i an but i don't go about saying blind this blind that. It's silly. -original message- Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine From: "Charles Rivard" Date: 30:10:2013 2.52 pm That's because of who they are designed for. The blind. No negativity intended. The problem might be the way in which the word "blind" is taken. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Darren Harris" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine >I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put > on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game > there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can > play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and > this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech > blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. > > -Original Message- > From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: 30 October 2013 12:30 > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine > > Hi Dark, > > I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the > descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly > considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to > focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as > long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our > own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to > interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and > interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers > yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them > here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to > be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, > interactive fiction, muds, and so on. > > Cheers! > > On 10/30/13, dark wrote: >> Hi Tom. >> >> While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same >> time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which >> directly buck this trend. >> >> Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a > large >> >> extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive >> audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. >> >> I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a > renaesance >> >> in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies > like >> >> big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and >> certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). >> >> It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could >> tap >> into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers > who >> >> are interested in audio atmosphere. >> >> Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually >> encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood >> entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the >> documentation), and described shades of doom as "an interactive survival >> horror trapped in pitch darkness" you'd probably get a lot more sighted >> gamers playing it. >> >> Or to take another example, suppose you redesigned a casino game with >> full >> voice acting, lots of audio ambience and drama like bits of description. > So >> >> instead of being told "you draw a ten of spades" you get "the dealer's > thin >> >> fingered hand flips a card kneetly out of the shoe and slips it across >> the >> green base to you, it is the ten of spadess" >> >> Such a game could be billed as an audio ambience experience of a casino, > as >> >> much as a numerical game of blackjack, and again, would have appeal to at >> least a certain cross section of the sighted gaming public, just as > textual >> >> games and gamebooks do to another. >> >> Beware the Grue! >> >> Dark. >> - > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or upd
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
That's because of who they are designed for. The blind. No negativity intended. The problem might be the way in which the word "blind" is taken. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Darren Harris" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 30 October 2013 12:30 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Dark, I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, interactive fiction, muds, and so on. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: Hi Tom. While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which directly buck this trend. Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a large extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a renaesance in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies like big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could tap into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers who are interested in audio atmosphere. Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the documentation), and described shades of doom as "an interactive survival horror trapped in pitch darkness" you'd probably get a lot more sighted gamers playing it. Or to take another example, suppose you redesigned a casino game with full voice acting, lots of audio ambience and drama like bits of description. So instead of being told "you draw a ten of spades" you get "the dealer's thin fingered hand flips a card kneetly out of the shoe and slips it across the green base to you, it is the ten of spadess" Such a game could be billed as an audio ambience experience of a casino, as much as a numerical game of blackjack, and again, would have appeal to at least a certain cross section of the sighted gaming public, just as textual games and gamebooks do to another. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can m
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I think that's a big part of the problem. Too much enphesis I think is put on the word blind. Which isn't all together a bad thing as with any game there needs to be elements of accessibility built in so blind people can play them. But I think the enphesis is way to big. I mean for example and this is just a generic statement, you got blindsoftware blindcooltech blindbargins blindmicemart the list goes on. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 30 October 2013 12:30 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine Hi Dark, I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, interactive fiction, muds, and so on. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same > time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which > directly buck this trend. > > Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a large > > extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive > audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. > > I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a renaesance > > in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies like > > big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and > certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). > > It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could tap > into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers who > > are interested in audio atmosphere. > > Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually > encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood > entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the > documentation), and described shades of doom as "an interactive survival > horror trapped in pitch darkness" you'd probably get a lot more sighted > gamers playing it. > > Or to take another example, suppose you redesigned a casino game with full > voice acting, lots of audio ambience and drama like bits of description. So > > instead of being told "you draw a ten of spades" you get "the dealer's thin > > fingered hand flips a card kneetly out of the shoe and slips it across the > green base to you, it is the ten of spadess" > > Such a game could be billed as an audio ambience experience of a casino, as > > much as a numerical game of blackjack, and again, would have appeal to at > least a certain cross section of the sighted gaming public, just as textual > > games and gamebooks do to another. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Tom. It is what I actually wrote in the 4th chapter of my phd. The over whelming social reaction to any sort of disability is that it's something different, that a person with none working body parts or a medical condition that causes them to live life differently is intrinsically another sort of human being, and the more people emphasise differences the more evident they may be. At the same timeI however, I do think it's legitimate to talk about "accessibility for blind/visually impared gamers" and to hold audio or text games responsable to include it. It's a balance question really, but certainly on the front of site, and in intraductory material access should come at the end of remarks about possibilities of text and audio, not at the start so that the games themselves are the focus not "blind gamers" Indeed, I personally really dislike any applying of the word blind to objects. Reever, My dog is a guide dog not a blind dog (a blind dog really wouldn't be much help with mobility), I do not have a blind computer, blind cane, or blind anything else. I have various peaces of equipment and software that assist me! to fulfill my desires in life as a visually impared individual, but since none of those things themselves can see, the word "blind" is incorrect to apply to them. Indeed if you don't mind me referring to my own research again, this is also why I would love to see the word "accessibility" become a more common one. After all, a person with a condition like dispraxia or dislexia who finds complex graphics and 3D spacial relations hard to comprehend would equally bennifit from audio and synthesisor friendly text based games. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Dark, I see your point. That is in fact why as I am working on the descriptions for the Audyssey Magazine, list, etc I am strongly considering removing the word blind from the website, and am going to focus more on what types of games etc are discussed here. I think as long as we act as though we are a separate group of gamers with our own interests and unique style of gaming we will not be able to interest mainstream gamers who have similar interests. Gamebooks and interactive fiction, for example, are not exclusive to blind gamers yet we don't see anyone from the mainstream public discussing them here. That's because up until now we have always declared Audyssey to be for blind gamers rather than for certain games such as audio games, interactive fiction, muds, and so on. Cheers! On 10/30/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > While I do see your point and generally speaking would agree, at the same > time the Iphone has seen more than a few interactive audio dramas which > directly buck this trend. > > Codename Signus, the Freq, Blindside and quite a few others, even to a large > > extent games like papasangre which present themselves more as interactive > audio drama and work on their atmosphere rather than their gameplay. > > I know in the past few years radio drama has seen something of a renaesance > > in popular culture, and you can clearly see it with how major companies like > > big finish and Graphic audio have heavily expanded their operations, (and > certainly they! don't just sell to blind people). > > It'd be rather interesting if games like swamp or shades of doom could tap > into this, since clearly there is now a cross section of sighted gamers who > > are interested in audio atmosphere. > > Take Shades of doom as an example, the game who's atmosphere actually > encouraged me to play audio games in the first place. If David greenwood > entirely removed the word "blind" from his website, (albeit not from the > documentation), and described shades of doom as "an interactive survival > horror trapped in pitch darkness" you'd probably get a lot more sighted > gamers playing it. > > Or to take another example, suppose you redesigned a casino game with full > voice acting, lots of audio ambience and drama like bits of description. So > > instead of being told "you draw a ten of spades" you get "the dealer's thin > > fingered hand flips a card kneetly out of the shoe and slips it across the > green base to you, it is the ten of spadess" > > Such a game could be billed as an audio ambience experience of a casino, as > > much as a numerical game of blackjack, and again, would have appeal to at > least a certain cross section of the sighted gaming public, just as textual > > games and gamebooks do to another. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
Hi Darren, I've noticed that as well. A lot of text based games such as browser based games have a lack of a good storyline which is a real problem for that genre of game since those sorts of games are really Dependant on a good storyline and decent writing. All the same if we had one or two authors here who were good at both we might be able to produce some text games that makes that genre of game viable for blind and sighted players alike. As you said we just need games that inspire the imagination, and can get people interested in the game. Cheers! On 10/30/13, Darren Harris wrote: > hi tom. > > i do think text based games do have their place for sure. unfortunately if > you look at a lot of browser based text games there isn't much imagination > put into them a lot of the time. with acceptions like core exiles or space > odacey. i think this is why people are losing interest in them. text games > not only need to be very playable but they need to fire the imagination of > the player. i think this is where a lot of people fall down who code these > games. but yes they do definitely have their place and it's certainly a > market i think. > > Sent from my iPad --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey Magazine
I Agree on that one darren, more than a few text games just don't use themedium particularly well, and don't include descriptions, atmospheric text or anything else. It's really quite disappointing. Fortunately though ther are still a few good ones out there. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
