Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

When I was in Indianapolis last weekend I saw regular unleaded for $3.59. I 
topped off the rental car on it.

-D

> On Aug 3, 2022, at 2:45 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> $3.99 for regular and $$5.49 for diesel in Whitehall, Michigan today.  
> 
> Michael E. Esh
> 
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have traveled to the great northern estate once again. Lowest fillup of 
>> the trip (regular gasoline) was $4.29, highest was $4.59. It's normal for 
>> the north to have higher priced gas, the trucking cost is significant. Looks 
>> like today it's down $0.10. Irritatingly I left the gas cans at camp when I 
>> came into town to use the house internet. I mowed for a couple hours this 
>> morning and the Super M is a thirsty beast.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 12:57:23 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We're at roughly $4.55/g for 87UL and 5.59/g for diesel right now.
>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:53, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
>>> This morning I paid $169.9/l  for regular. The previous fill was, I 
>>> believe, $1.79.9/l.
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Mike, move to MD and in a few years your moving costs will be recouped by
the savings in diesel purchases.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 2:46 PM Michael Esh via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> $3.99 for regular and $$5.49 for diesel in Whitehall, Michigan today.
>
> Michael E. Esh
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have traveled to the great northern estate once again. Lowest fillup
> of the trip (regular gasoline) was $4.29, highest was $4.59. It's normal
> for the north to have higher priced gas, the trucking cost is significant.
> Looks like today it's down $0.10. Irritatingly I left the gas cans at camp
> when I came into town to use the house internet. I mowed for a couple hours
> this morning and the Super M is a thirsty beast.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 12:57:23 PM EDT, Allan Streib via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We're at roughly $4.55/g for 87UL and 5.59/g for diesel right now.
> >
> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:53, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
> >> This morning I paid $169.9/l  for regular. The previous fill was, I
> >> believe, $1.79.9/l.
> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Michael Esh via Mercedes]

$3.99 for regular and $$5.49 for diesel in Whitehall, Michigan today.  

Michael E. Esh


> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I have traveled to the great northern estate once again. Lowest fillup of 
> the trip (regular gasoline) was $4.29, highest was $4.59. It's normal for the 
> north to have higher priced gas, the trucking cost is significant. Looks like 
> today it's down $0.10. Irritatingly I left the gas cans at camp when I came 
> into town to use the house internet. I mowed for a couple hours this morning 
> and the Super M is a thirsty beast.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 12:57:23 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're at roughly $4.55/g for 87UL and 5.59/g for diesel right now.
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:53, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
>> This morning I paid $169.9/l  for regular. The previous fill was, I 
>> believe, $1.79.9/l.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

In our circuit from DC - Pittsburgh - New Phil. OH - DC we saw one service
stn. selling  diesel for under $5/gallon ($4.79 to be exact - in Dover,
OH).  In second place was a New Phil. OH BP selling diesel at $5.19/gal.
This compares to $4.79 at the Liberty in Gaithersburg, MD.  It pays to hang
out in the DC suburbs.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 1:19 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have traveled to the great northern estate once again. Lowest fillup of
> the trip (regular gasoline) was $4.29, highest was $4.59. It's normal for
> the north to have higher priced gas, the trucking cost is significant.
> Looks like today it's down $0.10. Irritatingly I left the gas cans at camp
> when I came into town to use the house internet. I mowed for a couple hours
> this morning and the Super M is a thirsty beast.
>
> -Curt
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 12:57:23 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> We're at roughly $4.55/g for 87UL and 5.59/g for diesel right now.
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:53, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
> > This morning I paid $169.9/l  for regular. The previous fill was, I
> > believe, $1.79.9/l.
>
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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I have traveled to the great northern estate once again. Lowest fillup of the 
trip (regular gasoline) was $4.29, highest was $4.59. It's normal for the north 
to have higher priced gas, the trucking cost is significant. Looks like today 
it's down $0.10. Irritatingly I left the gas cans at camp when I came into town 
to use the house internet. I mowed for a couple hours this morning and the 
Super M is a thirsty beast.

-Curt




On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 12:57:23 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





We're at roughly $4.55/g for 87UL and 5.59/g for diesel right now.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:53, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
> This morning I paid $169.9/l  for regular. The previous fill was, I 
> believe, $1.79.9/l.

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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[OK Don via Mercedes]

That's how we measure aircraft costs - $/hr.  Our Cessna burns 11.5
gal/hour at our normal cruise settings. I saw that non-ethanol 87 oct. gas
is 3.79/gal today at our usual station, so that works out to $43.59/hour
for fuel.
We haven't been flying it enough recently, and did some significant
avionics upgrades, so our total cost per hour - maintenance, repairs,
inspections, fuel and oil, etc. is right at $100/hour over the last five
years.
Now that fuel is below $4/gal, I need to go and fill the 55 gal drum - it's
empty now and the airplane is only half full.
We will fly it a couple of hours this weekend to calibrate a new Angle of
Attack sensor I installed a few weeks ago.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 11:55 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:12, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
>
> > The truck also records time and since the last fill, I have had it
> > running for 9.6 hours and that works out to about $16.87 dollars per
> > hour. ... Somehow, cost per hour seems every bit as useful as miles
> > per gallon.
>
> Yes, it's interesting, and would be useful if you used the truck for work,
> so you know how much you need to earn per hour just to break even on fuel.
> Or how much your commute is costing you.
>
> Of course, you really need to include the fully loaded cost including
> wear and maintenance to have an accurate number. It's higher than a lot
> of people realize.
>
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-- 
OK Don

"Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you
are wearing."

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

We're at roughly $4.55/g for 87UL and 5.59/g for diesel right now.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:53, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
> This morning I paid $169.9/l  for regular. The previous fill was, I 
> believe, $1.79.9/l.

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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, at 11:12, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

> The truck also records time and since the last fill, I have had it
> running for 9.6 hours and that works out to about $16.87 dollars per
> hour. ... Somehow, cost per hour seems every bit as useful as miles
> per gallon.

Yes, it's interesting, and would be useful if you used the truck for work,
so you know how much you need to earn per hour just to break even on fuel.
Or how much your commute is costing you.

Of course, you really need to include the fully loaded cost including
wear and maintenance to have an accurate number. It's higher than a lot
of people realize.

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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

This morning I paid $169.9/l  for regular. The previous fill was, I 
believe, $1.79.9/l.




On 03/08/2022 11:48 AM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Wed, 3 Aug 2022 11:12:53 -0500 Randy Bennell via Mercedes
 wrote:


The computer in the truck said we were down to about 11.7 l per 100 K
at one point but by the time we got home it was back up around 12.1.

In any event, my numbers likely won't mean much to you folks south of
the border


[craig ~]$ units
Currency exchange rates from 2012-10-24
2427 units, 68 prefixes, 64 nonlinear units

You have: 11.7 l / 100 km
You want: miles / gallon
reciprocal conversion
* 20.103811
/ 0.049741814
You have: 12.1 l / 100 km
You want: miles / gallon
reciprocal conversion
* 19.439222
/ 0.051442389



but I thought the following was interesting. The truck also
records time and since the last fill, I have had it running for 9.6
hours and that works out to about $16.87 dollars per hour.

Somehow, cost per hour seems every bit as useful as miles per gallon.

Yes, it is useful, but in a different way than mpg.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 3 Aug 2022 11:12:53 -0500 Randy Bennell via Mercedes
 wrote:

> The computer in the truck said we were down to about 11.7 l per 100 K
> at one point but by the time we got home it was back up around 12.1.
>   
> In any event, my numbers likely won't mean much to you folks south of 
> the border


[craig ~]$ units
Currency exchange rates from 2012-10-24 
2427 units, 68 prefixes, 64 nonlinear units

You have: 11.7 l / 100 km
You want: miles / gallon
reciprocal conversion
* 20.103811
/ 0.049741814
You have: 12.1 l / 100 km
You want: miles / gallon
reciprocal conversion
* 19.439222
/ 0.051442389


> but I thought the following was interesting. The truck also 
> records time and since the last fill, I have had it running for 9.6 
> hours and that works out to about $16.87 dollars per hour.
>   
> Somehow, cost per hour seems every bit as useful as miles per gallon.

Yes, it is useful, but in a different way than mpg.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Not to mention that the gasoline ruins the taste in my martinis.

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 12:00 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Since ethanol has been added for gasoline as an oxygen carrier for more
> than 40 years, it's not very likely that it causes damage to fuel systems
> unless they are very poorly designed (take note GM, this isn't 1955, eh?)
>
> Flex fuel vehicles can run on 85% ethanol, most "non flexfuel" vehicles
> computers and injection systems will not deliver enough fuel to run  on
> gasoline with more than 15% or so -- ethanol is less dense, has much more
> oxygen, so a larger volume of fuel is required for proper combustion.
>
> The real problem with ethanol is that it accelerates oxidative degradation
> of gasoline, and the resultant mess is what eats fuel system parts,
> particularly mild organic acids.  Use fuel stabilizer if it's going to sit
> very long.
>
> Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Since ethanol has been added for gasoline as an oxygen carrier for more than 40 
years, it's not very likely that it causes damage to fuel systems unless they 
are very poorly designed (take note GM, this isn't 1955, eh?)

Flex fuel vehicles can run on 85% ethanol, most "non flexfuel" vehicles 
computers and injection systems will not deliver enough fuel to run  on 
gasoline with more than 15% or so -- ethanol is less dense, has much more 
oxygen, so a larger volume of fuel is required for proper combustion.

The real problem with ethanol is that it accelerates oxidative degradation of 
gasoline, and the resultant mess is what eats fuel system parts, particularly 
mild organic acids.  Use fuel stabilizer if it's going to sit very long.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[MG via Mercedes]

Don,
If I remember correctly ethanol has an octane rating over 100-110 
or so. I'd have to look it up. Anyway when the ethanol is added 
to gas you can see that it will bring the octane of the gas up 
for less cost then probably anything else. Unfortunately it also 
brings the mileage that you get down proportional to the amount 
of alcohol in the gas. Back in the day if you used alcohol for 
racing I think the rule of thumb was you had to drill out the 
jets in the carb out 10-20% larger to keep your speed and power.

Can't remember exactly any more.

Manfred

Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:
Anybody know anything about E30.  There is a gas station I drive by frequently that has E10, E20, and E30.   The E30 was 93 Octane but was even cheaper than 87 E10.  Ethanol has higher octane and plain gas, so that explains the higher Octane.  I know some gas stations advertise that they sell only 100%.  But, is E20 and E30 harmful because of the higher ethanol? 

Don Snook 


-Original Message-
From: Curley McLain [mailto:126die...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2017 12:43 AM

To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

I never had that problem using 89 E10 regular

Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> June 29, 
2017 at 7:21 AM There is also the point that using mid-grade in my TE 
burns off the spark plug electrodes, too -- no knock sensor. I always 
use premium in it, just the cost of having a Benz.




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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Anything built after about 1985 or so should be ok.  E10 first came out 
44 years ago or more.  Anything made within the last 35 years or so 
should be made with materials resistant to alcohol, excepting exotic 
furrin cars.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
July 3, 2017 at 12:12 PM
Don't you have to be really careful that your fuel system is set up 
for higher fractions of ethanol because that stuff will eat seals and 
gaskets and whatnot?  I see these new vehicles with "flexfuel" badges 
on them which I guess means they can use whatever.  I'd be real 
careful about that stuff.


--FT



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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Don't you have to be really careful that your fuel system is set up for 
higher fractions of ethanol because that stuff will eat seals and 
gaskets and whatnot?  I see these new vehicles with "flexfuel" badges on 
them which I guess means they can use whatever.  I'd be real careful 
about that stuff.


--FT


On 7/3/17 11:50 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:

Anybody know anything about E30.  There is a gas station I drive by frequently 
that has E10, E20, and E30.   The E30 was 93 Octane but was even cheaper than 
87 E10.  Ethanol has higher octane and plain gas, so that explains the higher 
Octane.  I know some gas stations advertise that they sell only 100%.  But, is 
E20 and E30 harmful because of the higher ethanol?

Don Snook

-Original Message-
From: Curley McLain [mailto:126die...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2017 12:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

I never had that problem using 89 E10 regular


Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> June 29,
2017 at 7:21 AM There is also the point that using mid-grade in my TE
burns off the spark plug electrodes, too -- no knock sensor. I always
use premium in it, just the cost of having a Benz.



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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Anybody know anything about E30.  There is a gas station I drive by frequently 
that has E10, E20, and E30.   The E30 was 93 Octane but was even cheaper than 
87 E10.  Ethanol has higher octane and plain gas, so that explains the higher 
Octane.  I know some gas stations advertise that they sell only 100%.  But, is 
E20 and E30 harmful because of the higher ethanol? 

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Curley McLain [mailto:126die...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2017 12:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

I never had that problem using 89 E10 regular

> Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> June 29, 
> 2017 at 7:21 AM There is also the point that using mid-grade in my TE 
> burns off the spark plug electrodes, too -- no knock sensor. I always 
> use premium in it, just the cost of having a Benz.



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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I never had that problem using 89 E10 regular


Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
June 29, 2017 at 7:21 AM
There is also the point that using mid-grade in my TE burns off the 
spark plug electrodes, too -- no knock sensor. I always use premium in 
it, just the cost of having a Benz.


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

That is correct 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 29, 2017, at 10:28 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> That is assuming the car was designed for premium.   I think that if the 
> manufacturer just calls for 87 octane, there is no benefit to using premium.  
> Isn't that correct? 
> 
> Don Snook 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Frederick [mailto:psf...@earthlink.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 5:27 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment
> 
> Typically there is a knock sensor on the engine, and ignition timing is 
> retarded when you get knock, may also richen the fuel.
> 
> The difference can be 10% or more, depending on driving conditions and fuel, 
> but usually it's cheaper to use premium.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

That is assuming the car was designed for premium.   I think that if the 
manufacturer just calls for 87 octane, there is no benefit to using premium.  
Isn't that correct? 

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Peter Frederick [mailto:psf...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

Typically there is a knock sensor on the engine, and ignition timing is 
retarded when you get knock, may also richen the fuel.

The difference can be 10% or more, depending on driving conditions and fuel, 
but usually it's cheaper to use premium.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

There is also the point that using mid-grade in my TE burns off the spark plug 
electrodes, too -- no knock sensor.  I always use premium in it, just the cost 
of having a Benz.
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

When I had them the E10 here was 89.  they have since dropped it to 87.  
But the M116 has run for 8 yrs on a steady diet of 87 regular.  No 
problems related to fuel.  It did break a cheep prastic chain guide, and 
needed rubber hoses for the idle air, but those are not fuel related.


BTW, the M180, and the M121 Yuro, also "required" spremium.

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
June 28, 2017 at 8:59 PM
The 103 and 104 requires premium. You have not had any problems 
running them on 87?


Sent from my iPhone




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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

The 103 and 104 requires premium. You have not had any problems running them on 
87?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2017, at 8:43 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> i have run all the various MB vergassers on E10 regular since it became 
> available over 40 years ago.  220Sb (M180), 230TE (M121), 300TE (M103), 
> E320(M104) and 380SL (M116).  No problems, no pinging.  They are so proud of 
> their spremium around here i quit looking at prices or considering it since 
> they took the lead out about 40 years ago.  It is usually $.50 to $1 higher 
> than E10 regular.
> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> June 28, 2017 at 8:20 PM
>> I’ve heard this and I’ve heard that there’s a risk of damaging the catalyst, 
>> but for the life of me I’ve never found anything that clearly states this. 
>> Certainly there could be damage if you were driving the car hard and there 
>> was a lot of detonation, but as others have stated, the engine management 
>> system is going to make sure the timing and spark are correct for the burn.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

i have run all the various MB vergassers on E10 regular since it became 
available over 40 years ago.  220Sb (M180), 230TE (M121), 300TE (M103), 
E320(M104) and 380SL (M116).  No problems, no pinging.  They are so 
proud of their spremium around here i quit looking at prices or 
considering it since they took the lead out about 40 years ago.  It is 
usually $.50 to $1 higher than E10 regular.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
June 28, 2017 at 8:20 PM
I’ve heard this and I’ve heard that there’s a risk of damaging the 
catalyst, but for the life of me I’ve never found anything that 
clearly states this. Certainly there could be damage if you were 
driving the car hard and there was a lot of detonation, but as others 
have stated, the engine management system is going to make sure the 
timing and spark are correct for the burn.


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’ve heard this and I’ve heard that there’s a risk of damaging the catalyst, 
but for the life of me I’ve never found anything that clearly states this.  
Certainly there could be damage if you were driving the car hard and there was 
a lot of detonation, but as others have stated, the engine management system is 
going to make sure the timing and spark are correct for the burn.



> On Jun 28, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Isn't there a risk of engine damage over the long term when burning regular 
> in a car designed for premium?
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> Isn't there a risk of engine damage over the long term when burning
> regular in a car designed for premium?


Only in the cars that don't adapt.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Isn't there a risk of engine damage over the long term when burning regular in 
a car designed for premium?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On June 28, 2017 7:03:49 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Around here, buying Premium is the difference between paying $2.82 a
>gallon or $2.22. I could never justify that solely on an MPG basis. 
>
>Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> $25.87 a mile is pretty high...


I don't know, that X5's probably getting pretty close to there by now...

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Around here, buying Premium is the difference between paying $2.82 a gallon or 
$2.22. I could never justify that solely on an MPG basis. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Typically there is a knock sensor on the engine, and ignition timing is 
retarded when you get knock, may also richen the fuel.

The difference can be 10% or more, depending on driving conditions and fuel, 
but usually it's cheaper to use premium.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Whoops. Yea, I calculated the cost for the 300 miles. It would be 8.6 cents 
versus 8.8 cents.

Donald H. Snook
SNOOK LAW LLC

5020 E. Central Suite A
Wichita, Kansas 67208
Phone:  (316) 512-5608
e-mail:  d...@snooklawllc.com<mailto:d...@snooklawllc.com>

This confidential message may be subject to the attorney-client privilege or 
protected by the attorney work-product doctrine. If you have received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify me.



On Jun 28, 2017, at 12:09 PM, Curt Raymond 
<curtlud...@yahoo.com<mailto:curtlud...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

$25.87 a mile is pretty high...

-Curt



From: Donald Snook via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
To: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com<mailto:jim.cathey...@gmail.com>>; 
Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com<mailto:d...@snooklawllc.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

True.  The cost per mile at 23 MPG with 87 was $25.87.  And the cost at 25.4 
mpg with 91 was $26.55.  So, the premium was slightly more expensive.  On the 
same trip previously I got 26 mpg (I don’t know what the difference was).  If I 
got 26 mpg, the cost would have been identical.

Don Snook

From: Jim Cathey 
[mailto:jim.cathey...@gmail.com<mailto:jim.cathey...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 11:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com<mailto:d...@snooklawllc.com>>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

Based on my experiment, premium does offer advantages on my car.  With better 
performance and power, it took less fuel to drive the same road at the same 
speed.

Yes, but you have not yet calculated the fuel cost per mile, which is probably 
what a serious road-tripper would be interested in.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

$25.87 a mile is pretty high...
-Curt


  From: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment
   
True.  The cost per mile at 23 MPG with 87 was $25.87.  And the cost at 25.4 
mpg with 91 was $26.55.  So, the premium was slightly more expensive.  On the 
same trip previously I got 26 mpg (I don’t know what the difference was).  If I 
got 26 mpg, the cost would have been identical.

Don Snook

From: Jim Cathey [mailto:jim.cathey...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 11:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

Based on my experiment, premium does offer advantages on my car.  With better 
performance and power, it took less fuel to drive the same road at the same 
speed.

Yes, but you have not yet calculated the fuel cost per mile, which is probably 
what a serious road-tripper would be interested in.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

True.  The cost per mile at 23 MPG with 87 was $25.87.  And the cost at 25.4 
mpg with 91 was $26.55.  So, the premium was slightly more expensive.  On the 
same trip previously I got 26 mpg (I don’t know what the difference was).  If I 
got 26 mpg, the cost would have been identical.

Don Snook

From: Jim Cathey [mailto:jim.cathey...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 11:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

Based on my experiment, premium does offer advantages on my car.  With better 
performance and power, it took less fuel to drive the same road at the same 
speed.

Yes, but you have not yet calculated the fuel cost per mile, which is probably 
what a serious road-tripper would be interested in.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage Premium v. Regular Experiment

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> Based on my experiment, premium does offer advantages on my car.  With
> better performance and power, it took less fuel to drive the same road at
> the same speed.


Yes, but you have not yet calculated the fuel cost per mile, which is
probably what a serious road-tripper would be interested in.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel mileage

[Gary Thompson]

Donald,

Should be pretty comparable to the sedan. I think they're about the same weight.

I get about 22-23 for my usual 70/30 driving. Got more like 25 on a
whole tank aat 75MPH this weekend.


Gary Thompson
1995 E320


On 4/14/08, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Anyone know what the gas mileage would be for a 1995 300CE (with the 104?)?

 Donald H. Snook

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Jim Cathey]

 does not foam.  When it shuts off I leave it alone and remove the fill
 nozzle from the port.  I hope this provides a consistent filling 
 method.

I do not think it does.  I top off exclusively, and the amount
of topping off required varies quite a bit due to the highly-
variable amount of foaming you get.  On some winter days it
doesn't even foam more than gasoline.  On others, gallons
more can be put in to get to the same visible liquid level
from the point at which the pump first shut off.  And I
always fill on the slow notch.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Peter Frederick]

Fuel consumption will vary with driving conditions (wet roads use  
more power, the water drags on the tires), cool damp weather gives  
more hp from the water vapor in the air, AC use (climate control,  
remember, it's automatic) can use a mpg or so, idling time, number of  
hard acceleration runs, fuel BTU content, lost of stuff.

Filling can make a difference, too, as some pumps run faster than  
others and make more foam in the tank, shutting the nozzle off sooner  
so you get less fuel in the tank.

I get from 30.5 to 32 mpg on the 300D.  Lower when the roads are wet  
and/or partially flooded (that water standing REALLY drags), best is  
when it's about 38 and foggy.  I expect the milage to drop to 29-30  
when I get the AC working.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Harry Watkins]

My daughter sent this:

TIPS ON PUMPING GAS

I don't know what you are paying for gasoline but here in California we
are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my line of work is in
petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to get more of
 your money's worth for every gallon..

Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground
temperature is still cold.  Remember that all service station s have their
storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground  the more dense the
gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon
or in the eveningyour gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum
business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel
 and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role.


A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the
service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.

When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast
 mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3)stages: low,
middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on low speed, thereby
minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at
the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some
other liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being
sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less
worth for your money.

One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL
or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your tank
the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you
can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This
roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it
minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every
truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is
actually the exact amount.

Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage
tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline is
being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some
of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom.  Hope this will help you
get the most value for your money.

Harry



On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Fuel consumption will vary with driving conditions (wet roads use
 more power, the water drags on the tires), cool damp weather gives
 more hp from the water vapor in the air, AC use (climate control,
 remember, it's automatic) can use a mpg or so, idling time, number of
 hard acceleration runs, fuel BTU content, lost of stuff.

 Filling can make a difference, too, as some pumps run faster than
 others and make more foam in the tank, shutting the nozzle off sooner
 so you get less fuel in the tank.

 I get from 30.5 to 32 mpg on the 300D.  Lower when the roads are wet
 and/or partially flooded (that water standing REALLY drags), best is
 when it's about 38 and foggy.  I expect the milage to drop to 29-30
 when I get the AC working.

 Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[LarryT]

OK Jim,
I'll try topping up the tank as you suggest,  but I'm wondering how much 
extra fuel goes into
the tank by topping off?  A quart maybe?

As far as the comments from the person saying to fill up in the AM - I 
thought the temp was stable once you get around 6 into the ground?

Thx ya'll --

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs



- Original Message - 
From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:20 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies


 does not foam.  When it shuts off I leave it alone and remove the fill
 nozzle from the port.  I hope this provides a consistent filling
 method.

 I do not think it does.  I top off exclusively, and the amount
 of topping off required varies quite a bit due to the highly-
 variable amount of foaming you get.  On some winter days it
 doesn't even foam more than gasoline.  On others, gallons
 more can be put in to get to the same visible liquid level
 from the point at which the pump first shut off.  And I
 always fill on the slow notch.

 -- Jim


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 For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Jim Cathey]

 I'll try topping up the tank as you suggest,  but I'm wondering how 
 much
 extra fuel goes into the tank by topping off?  A quart maybe?

That's true of the gasser SL's, certainly.  But the diesels all
have a considerably greater amount that you can get into them,
and that amount varies quite a bit.  (Which is the point of
topping off, the fill volume is quite constant then.)  Or so
has been my experience.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Scott Ritchey]

My new Subaru gasser has a MPG indicator driven by the engine computer.  It
indicates instantaneous MPG (which is useless because it jumps with every
twitch of the gas pedal) or average MPG since last reset. It consistently
reads about 1/2 to 1 MPG high based on manual calculations at each fillup.
It is interesting to watch especially right after a fillup.

The worst mileage (low teens) is with a cold engine.  So short trips with
long stops (like shopping downtown) are a real MPG killer.  In-town stop and
go driving with a warm engine deliver high teens.  Freeway driving (70 MPH)
gives about 30 MPG and country roads (55 MPH) are even a little better but
that's offset if there are frequent stop signs.  I guess this car has a lot
of aero drag.  I live in the country so usually get about 25 MPG average
unless I'm on a trip when it's bit better.

So in my experience, driving conditions produce a huge variation in MPG.
This, by the way, is also the rationale for the hybrid cars where
regenerative breaking recovers part of the energy when stopping.  But
hybrids only make sense (IMO) if most of your driving is stop-and-go city
driving.  

My Diesels seemed to deliver consistent mileage despite conditions (25 MPG
for the 300SD turbo and 21 MPG for the 300TD non-turbo) but maybe that's
just because I didn't have continuous MPG readout. 

Scott Ritchey


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Robert Rentfro]

Scott told us about his Subaru:

It indicates instantaneous MPG (which is useless because it jumps with
every
twitch of the gas pedal) or average MPG since last reset. It consistently
reads about 1/2 to 1 MPG high based on manual calculations at each fill up.

I wondered about that. I watch the one on my E320 and wondered how accurate
it is. Anyone know?
I'm going up to see my pa next week. I'll be driving up in northern AZ on
nice two lane mountain roads. I'll keep tabs on what the computer tells me
then compare it to real old school fill up data.

Bob R
'05 E320 46K
'87 Acura Legend 192K
'77 300D 192K



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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Peter Frederick]

Diesels suffer less from milage drop in city driving than gassers.   
Not sure why, but I suspect it's because they use MUCH less fuel  
idling (gas engines have to run WAY rich at idle to keep them  
running) and gassers use more fuel on acceleration, too, I think.  My  
Volvo, my old 300D, my new 300D, and my brother's SDL all do about 1  
mpg less in town than on the highway -- so long as you stay under  
70mph.  Above that, and the fuel milage drops off fast.

I made one trip down to my brother's in Clarksville, TN before they  
raised the speed limit on the interstate, and got the best milage  
ever on the 300D -- 34 mpg.  I got 29 to 29.5 on the subsequent trip  
to Florida, quite a disappointment, but the traffic was moving much  
faster.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[LarryT]

And the more fuel that goes in means that less mpg's were achieved - 

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
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- Original Message - 
From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies


 I'll try topping up the tank as you suggest,  but I'm wondering how 
 much
 extra fuel goes into the tank by topping off?  A quart maybe?
 
 That's true of the gasser SL's, certainly.  But the diesels all
 have a considerably greater amount that you can get into them,
 and that amount varies quite a bit.  (Which is the point of
 topping off, the fill volume is quite constant then.)  Or so
 has been my experience.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[ernest breakfield]

i found the computer in a Volvo i once owned to consistently lie about 
what mileage we were getting; calculating manually always showed us to 
be receiving worse than what was reported.


cheers!
e


Robert Rentfro wrote:
 Scott told us about his Subaru:

 It indicates instantaneous MPG (which is useless because it jumps with
 every
 twitch of the gas pedal) or average MPG since last reset. It consistently
 reads about 1/2 to 1 MPG high based on manual calculations at each fill up.

 I wondered about that. I watch the one on my E320 and wondered how accurate
 it is. Anyone know?
 I'm going up to see my pa next week. I'll be driving up in northern AZ on
 nice two lane mountain roads. I'll keep tabs on what the computer tells me
 then compare it to real old school fill up data.

 Bob R
 '05 E320 46K
 '87 Acura Legend 192K
 '77 300D 192K



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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[ernest breakfield]

only true if you ASSuME that the exact same number of miles were traveled.


cheers!
e


LarryT wrote:
 And the more fuel that goes in means that less mpg's were achieved - 

 Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
 www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
 Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
 PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
 800-583-8601
 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs



 - Original Message - 
 From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies


   
 I'll try topping up the tank as you suggest,  but I'm wondering how 
 much
 extra fuel goes into the tank by topping off?  A quart maybe?
   
 That's true of the gasser SL's, certainly.  But the diesels all
 have a considerably greater amount that you can get into them,
 and that amount varies quite a bit.  (Which is the point of
 topping off, the fill volume is quite constant then.)  Or so
 has been my experience.

 -- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[John Freer]

Bob,

It's real close on my CDI when I do a manual calculation vs. what the
readout says.

John
On 4/13/08, Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Scott told us about his Subaru:

 It indicates instantaneous MPG (which is useless because it jumps with
 every
 twitch of the gas pedal) or average MPG since last reset. It consistently
 reads about 1/2 to 1 MPG high based on manual calculations at each fill up.

 I wondered about that. I watch the one on my E320 and wondered how accurate
 it is. Anyone know?
 I'm going up to see my pa next week. I'll be driving up in northern AZ on
 nice two lane mountain roads. I'll keep tabs on what the computer tells me
 then compare it to real old school fill up data.

 Bob R
 '05 E320 46K
 '87 Acura Legend 192K
 '77 300D 192K



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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Jim Cathey]

 And the more fuel that goes in means that less mpg's were achieved -

On one side of the short fill-up.  But the next one may get
erroneously _high_ marks.  That's why I top off, for consistency
of the mileage calculations.  It doesn't affect the true mileage
you get at all, just the 'jitter' in the readings.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[ernest breakfield]

resetting the trip meter every time?
letting the pump run slow until the nozzle shots off the first time and 
not topping it off?
dividing the gallons pumped into the mileage indicated on the trip meter?

if yes to all, then i won't guess what might be causing such a 
variance,...


cheers!
e


LarryT wrote:
 Hi Ya'll -
 I check my mpg's everytime I fill up.  For some reason it changes even 
 though my wife's driving is consistant - she drives to and from work each 
 day, no AC needed, no hard acceleration needed, stuff like that - and yet 
 her mpg;s will be 32mpgs one time and 28.5 the next.  We fill up at the same 
 station every time also -

 Any suggestions?  Don;t get me wrong,  compared to other people I'm doing 
 great ;-)

 Anyway - perhaps there's something I should be looking at.  BTW - all the 
 fuel pumps  filters are like new.

 Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
 www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
 Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
 PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
 800-583-8601
 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs




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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Hendrik Fay]

There may be a fault in the fuel injection system, we haven't had a 
discussion of the ALDA for a while.

Hendrik

ernest breakfield wrote:
 resetting the trip meter every time?
 letting the pump run slow until the nozzle shots off the first time and 
 not topping it off?
 dividing the gallons pumped into the mileage indicated on the trip meter?

 if yes to all, then i won't guess what might be causing such a 
 variance,...


 cheers!
 e


 LarryT wrote:
   
 Hi Ya'll -
 I check my mpg's everytime I fill up.  For some reason it changes even 
 though my wife's driving is consistant - she drives to and from work each 
 day, no AC needed, no hard acceleration needed, stuff like that - and yet 
 her mpg;s will be 32mpgs one time and 28.5 the next.  We fill up at the same 
 station every time also -

 Any suggestions?  Don;t get me wrong,  compared to other people I'm doing 
 great ;-)

 Anyway - perhaps there's something I should be looking at.  BTW - all the 
 fuel pumps  filters are like new.

 Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D

 

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[LarryT]

Hi Gang --
OK - here's my fill up procedure:

When I fill the tank I set the hande on the Slow Filling speed on the 
2 speed pump handle.  It goes in slowly so it
does not foam.  When it shuts off I leave it alone and remove the fill 
nozzle from the port.   I hope this provides a
consistant filling method.

Then I write all the needed numbers down - miles traveled, gallons 
needed to fill the tank, price of fuel, etc.  Then I reset the trip meter  
drive away --

re: the ALDA - I set my ALDA to the proper specs of 1.0 to 1.5 turns - 
then Marshall informed me the suggestion was for diesels produced prior to 
mine -- 1991, so I put it back.   This is correct, right?

Thx -

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs



- Original Message - 
From: ernest breakfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies


 resetting the trip meter every time?
 letting the pump run slow until the nozzle shots off the first time and
 not topping it off?
 dividing the gallons pumped into the mileage indicated on the trip meter?

if yes to all, then i won't guess what might be causing such a
 variance,...


 cheers!
 e


 LarryT wrote:
 Hi Ya'll -
 I check my mpg's everytime I fill up.  For some reason it changes 
 even
 though my wife's driving is consistant - she drives to and from work each
 day, no AC needed, no hard acceleration needed, stuff like that - and yet
 her mpg;s will be 32mpgs one time and 28.5 the next.  We fill up at the 
 same
 station every time also -

 Any suggestions?  Don;t get me wrong,  compared to other people I'm doing
 great ;-)

 Anyway - perhaps there's something I should be looking at.  BTW - all the
 fuel pumps  filters are like new.

 Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
 www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
 Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
 PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
 800-583-8601
 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs




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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Kevin Kraly]

How often do you check tire pressure?  Is it just after a tire inflation 
when the mileage goes up?  Perhaps, it's merely the change in wind 
directionn.

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
1983 300SD 267Kmi, Ursula 


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Loren Faeth]

How full is full?  Now car made in the past 25 years at least allows 
you tell how full the tank really is.  Now in my 110 200D, you can 
see the level of the fuel in the tank.  I don't trust any one tank 
mpg number.  I want an average of at least 10 tanks before I think I 
have a reliable number.  There is also a lot of variation in fuel.  A 
dirty little secret.


At 05:47 PM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
Hi Ya'll -
 I check my mpg's everytime I fill up.  For some reason it changes even
though my wife's driving is consistant - she drives to and from work each
day, no AC needed, no hard acceleration needed, stuff like that - and yet
her mpg;s will be 32mpgs one time and 28.5 the next.  We fill up at the same
station every time also -

Any suggestions?  Don;t get me wrong,  compared to other people I'm doing
great ;-)

Anyway - perhaps there's something I should be looking at.  BTW - all the
fuel pumps  filters are like new.

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs




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Loren Faeth 


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[LarryT]

Perhaps variations in fuel are part f the problem -- I check the mileage 
evrytimg we fill up and have the numbers going back to when we bought the 
car.  It was seeing 24-27 until I fixed some problems and sawit go to 28-30 
with an occassional 31 or 32.  Naturally I;d love to stay at 32mpg -
Thanks -
Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs



- Original Message - 
From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies


 How full is full?  Now car made in the past 25 years at least allows
 you tell how full the tank really is.  Now in my 110 200D, you can
 see the level of the fuel in the tank.  I don't trust any one tank
 mpg number.  I want an average of at least 10 tanks before I think I
 have a reliable number.  There is also a lot of variation in fuel.  A
 dirty little secret.


 At 05:47 PM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
Hi Ya'll -
 I check my mpg's everytime I fill up.  For some reason it changes 
 even
though my wife's driving is consistant - she drives to and from work each
day, no AC needed, no hard acceleration needed, stuff like that - and yet
her mpg;s will be 32mpgs one time and 28.5 the next.  We fill up at the 
same
station every time also -

Any suggestions?  Don;t get me wrong,  compared to other people I'm doing
great ;-)

Anyway - perhaps there's something I should be looking at.  BTW - all the
fuel pumps  filters are like new.

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs




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 Loren Faeth


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

With my diesels, I fill the damn tank till it fills up to the top of the 
filler neck.  Takes a while to let the foam settle.

Loren Faeth wrote:
 How full is full?  Now car made in the past 25 years at least allows 
 you tell how full the tank really is.  Now in my 110 200D, you can 
 see the level of the fuel in the tank.  I don't trust any one tank 
 mpg number.  I want an average of at least 10 tanks before I think I 
 have a reliable number.  There is also a lot of variation in fuel.  A 
 dirty little secret.
 
 
 At 05:47 PM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
 Hi Ya'll -
 I check my mpg's everytime I fill up.  For some reason it changes even
 though my wife's driving is consistant - she drives to and from work each
 day, no AC needed, no hard acceleration needed, stuff like that - and yet
 her mpg;s will be 32mpgs one time and 28.5 the next.  We fill up at the same
 station every time also -

 Any suggestions?  Don;t get me wrong,  compared to other people I'm doing
 great ;-)

 Anyway - perhaps there's something I should be looking at.  BTW - all the
 fuel pumps  filters are like new.

 Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
 www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
 Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
 PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
 800-583-8601
 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs




 ___
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 Loren Faeth 
 
 
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-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage varies

[Jim Cathey]

 I check my mpg's everytime I fill up.  For some reason it
 changes even though my wife's driving is consistent

My wife doesn't fill the tank as full as I do.  So that skews things
a bit if I calculate based on one of her prior fillups, or vice-versa.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Rich Thomas]

I was always the classsmartass, esp in physics.  In high school my 
physics tchr marked me wrong on a test for Heisenberg's uncertainty 
principle, where I said it was position and momentum (not velocity).  I 
argued mightily I was correct to no avail til he told me to shut up.  So 
I went to the library after school and looked in about 15 physics books, 
which were pretty much evenly split on the two answers.  So next day I 
come in with all this, and before I could say anything he grabbed the 
test and fixed the score and told me I was a smartass.  I said, Thank 
you! and the class all laughed like hell.  I kept up with him for 
awhile, he was a funny guy.  He was also quite a large gent, and because 
of his name we nicknamed him Buzz and had a saying that Budweiser 
makes Buzzwider...


One day we had a substitute, a really old retired college prof, I think 
he was German or East European of some sort, who proceeded to teach us 
about the pervading ether. 


--R

Craig McCluskey wrote:

(And I have a Ph.D. in
physics! Hangs head in shame ...   :-) )



On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:04:39 -0500 Rich Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

That's energy not momentum.

--R

Craig McCluskey wrote:


On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:04:42 -0500 Rich Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  

Maybe roll cages and restraints are the answer, though m1v1=m2v2


still  applies?
  



It's an inelastic collision, so what applies is,

12  1   2
   ---  m  v=  --- m  v
21  1   2   2  2
  


Yes, you're right. I was thinking about my answer while driving home from
work last night and realized my answer was wrong.

In an INelastic collision, energy is NOT conserved, though momentum is, as
you initially wrote. Sorry for the mistake. (And I have a Ph.D. in
physics! Hangs head in shame ...   :-) )


Craig

  

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Rich Thomas]

That's energy not momentum.

--R

Craig McCluskey wrote:

On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:04:42 -0500 Rich Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

Maybe roll cages and restraints are the answer, though m1v1=m2v2 still
applies?



It's an inelastic collision, so what applies is,

12  1   2
   ---  m  v=  --- m  v
21  1   2   2  2


Craig

_
  

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Craig McCluskey]

On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:04:39 -0500 Rich Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 That's energy not momentum.
 
 --R
 
 Craig McCluskey wrote:
  On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:04:42 -0500 Rich Thomas
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

  Maybe roll cages and restraints are the answer, though m1v1=m2v2
 still  applies?
  
 
  It's an inelastic collision, so what applies is,
 
  12  1   2
 ---  m  v=  --- m  v
  21  1   2   2  2

Yes, you're right. I was thinking about my answer while driving home from
work last night and realized my answer was wrong.

In an INelastic collision, energy is NOT conserved, though momentum is, as
you initially wrote. Sorry for the mistake. (And I have a Ph.D. in
physics! Hangs head in shame ...   :-) )


Craig

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Robert Tara Ludwick]

We wont let our kids ride bikes around here except at the bike trails at 
the park or in the yard, it's just not safe.  as much as I'd like to see 
the oldest boy get a bit more exercise  , I'd rather not see him get 
flattened.
Pretty sad, When I was his age , out in California, we used to ride our 
bikes 20 miles to the beach. I wouldn't let him try anything like that now.


The last time I attempted walking in our *city* (all of about 50k people 
in the whole county ) downtown I was pushing a young child in a stroller 
and out of 6 , traffic light controlled intersections, all small 2 lane 
streets in an old southern downtown, I had to run, and dodge and shove 
the stroller out of the way to keep from getting creamed at 3 out of 6 
of those crossings, while crossing on a green walk light while idiots 
in suvs and minivans careened around corners with cell phones glued to 
their faces while not even looking where  they were going. Those kind of 
survival odds stink.



It's not anyones imagination, the driver's are getting worse, and we 
have small colleges in this town every fall we get an even scarier batch 
of kids in bigger and bigger vehicles that have been handed down from 
their parents,  migrating in from the woods. It was bad enough when they 
were all driving moms old toyota with no cell phones, now it's moms old 
monster truck with a cell phone talking or texting away, and most of 
those kids come from small towns where the driver's test consists of 
driving around the town square twice with the deputy and not hitting 
anything.


---Robert

Mike Canfield wrote:
Agreed.  I ride my bike alot.  Prefer to keep to seasonal back roads as 
there are less idiots intent on running you down.  In town or on the highway 
I ride like every car I encounter doesn't even know I am 
there..Maybe they don't.


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage


  

Absolutely understandable. I always question whether I'm getting paranoid,
but it seems drivers are getting worse by the month. Red light running and
cel phone talking in particular.  Often when I think someone is
intentionally driving agressively toward me, I find a little girl yapping 
on

a cel happily. So that's surely the one huge downside to bike riding.

Brian


On 5/28/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I sincerely wish that I could safely ride a bike around here, but with
high speed SUV traffic on narrow, shoulder-free roads, it's asking for
severe injury or death.

Likewise it would not bother me at all to walk a couple miles to the
train or bus stop to take one of them to work, beats the hell out of
driving all the time.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Mike Canfield]

Craig,
 What's your point?  If you crash a motorcycle into a brick wall you will 
likely die...Duh.  Every time someone comes up with something that can 
save some energy the first response is..AND THE ANSWER IS But it's 
small and you might get hurt if you crash it!
 No, it's not your Benz.  It's not intended to be and was used simply as an 
example of what can be done.  THere are much more efficient Li-Ion battery 
packs that would far surpass the lead-acid G-whizz so it's all about the 
idea.  Not wether or not a little car is safe.


DO you ride a motorcycle?  Bettin' the G-Whizz has better crash 
scores...Oh wait, they don't even test bikes for that do they?


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage


On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:19:58 -0400 Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


A small commuter car, the G-Wiz has been available in the UK for some 3
years now, and it is gainig popularity in London, mainly because it is
excempt the £8 daily congestion charge, and parking is free at many
locations in central London.

http://www.goingreen.co.uk/store/

It has a maximum range of 48 miles at urban city speeds, and has a
battery  pack of approximately 10kWh.




From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVA,


The UK Department for Transport found serious safety concerns after
crashing a G-Wiz at 35mph into a deformable barrier on April 24, 2007
[6], which is the normal test for cars.

Likewise, a test commissioned by Top Gear magazine that followed the
Euro NCAP crash test specifications found that the occupants would
suffer serious or life-threatening injuries in a 64km/h crash.[7].

The G-wiz is presently exempt from most crash test rules, because its
size allows it to be classed as a quadricycle instead of a car.



Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Zoltan Finks]

Exactly. Those who are physically capable should try to ride a bike for
short trips once in a while. And even those not physically capable should
consider if they could skip a trip a week or something.

Brian

Peter wrote:
The real solution is not to drive as much, and I've gotten into the
habit of staying home on weekends.


On 5/27/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


There is no environmental gain from using chargeable hybrids -- you
just replace using gasoline or diesel for the much higher carbon output
coal fired power plant (with huge transmission loses, as they never
build the plants were the power is used, they stick us poor
midwesterners with them).

The real solution is not to drive as much, and I've gotten into the
habit of staying home on weekends.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Peter Frederick]

I sincerely wish that I could safely ride a bike around here, but with 
high speed SUV traffic on narrow, shoulder-free roads, it's asking for 
severe injury or death.


Likewise it would not bother me at all to walk a couple miles to the 
train or bus stop to take one of them to work, beats the hell out of 
driving all the time.


Peter

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Zoltan Finks]

Absolutely understandable. I always question whether I'm getting paranoid,
but it seems drivers are getting worse by the month. Red light running and
cel phone talking in particular.  Often when I think someone is
intentionally driving agressively toward me, I find a little girl yapping on
a cel happily. So that's surely the one huge downside to bike riding.

Brian


On 5/28/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I sincerely wish that I could safely ride a bike around here, but with
high speed SUV traffic on narrow, shoulder-free roads, it's asking for
severe injury or death.

Likewise it would not bother me at all to walk a couple miles to the
train or bus stop to take one of them to work, beats the hell out of
driving all the time.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Mike Canfield]

Agreed.  I ride my bike alot.  Prefer to keep to seasonal back roads as 
there are less idiots intent on running you down.  In town or on the highway 
I ride like every car I encounter doesn't even know I am 
there..Maybe they don't.


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage



Absolutely understandable. I always question whether I'm getting paranoid,
but it seems drivers are getting worse by the month. Red light running and
cel phone talking in particular.  Often when I think someone is
intentionally driving agressively toward me, I find a little girl yapping 
on

a cel happily. So that's surely the one huge downside to bike riding.

Brian


On 5/28/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I sincerely wish that I could safely ride a bike around here, but with
high speed SUV traffic on narrow, shoulder-free roads, it's asking for
severe injury or death.

Likewise it would not bother me at all to walk a couple miles to the
train or bus stop to take one of them to work, beats the hell out of
driving all the time.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Kevin Kraly]

It's all in the marketing.  People are told that their hybrid is helping the 
environment, and that's a good thing to help pollution and be more green, 
lots of hipe.  I'll just stick with my Diesels.


Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
1983 300SD 267Kmi, Ursula 

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Redghost]

Microscum slave next door just had the sales folks over yesterday to  
demonstrate cars at his house. He trades the saturn for a toyota.  He  
was looking at the camry hybrid, but settled on the prius.  He was  
strutting his stuff about what a great move he had made.  I did not  
feel the need to knock him off his pedestal and let him know just  
what a fake goodness he had done.  Saw him chatting up the other  
neighbor with a new diesel VW about what a smooth move the hybrid  
was.  Fool works for the evil empire, figure he is clueless, so why  
waste good breath pointing out his failures


clay

On May 26, 2007, at 5:57 PM, Kevin Kraly wrote:

It's all in the marketing.  People are told that their hybrid is  
helping the
environment, and that's a good thing to help pollution and be more  
green,

lots of hipe.  I'll just stick with my Diesels.

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
1983 300SD 267Kmi, Ursula


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Rich Thomas]

Maybe the Prius has some good points, but I notice that the people who 
drive them seem to be 1) holier than thou-looking types (I know, that 
is a bad way to put it, but when you look at someone you can usually get 
a half-decent read of their personality) with progressive stickers on 
the bumpers, or 2) rather clueless consumers who heard that it is a good 
thing and go pay for it not really analyzing the whole deal, or 3) 
status-seekers among their crowd.  Your MSFT guy probably fits in at 
least 2 of these groups if not all 3.  Most of my community probably 
fits that profile as well. There is probably a very small percentage who 
really understand all the factors, and make the decision.  But I also 
see a lot of VW TDIs around, and new diesel Benzes for those in that 
price range.  A lot of old diesel Benzes driven by people like this group!


I think there is a lot of marketing going on these days about fuel 
mileage and global climate change and such, that is not reality-based in 
many respects.  Who knows what the answer is ( a combination of 
behaviors and equipment I would think), but somehow I just don't get the 
feeling that the Prius is the whole answer.  And I wonder too why they 
don't make these kinds of cars plug-in hybrids right out of the box to 
gain even more efficiencies.


--R

Redghost wrote:
Microscum slave next door just had the sales folks over yesterday to  
demonstrate cars at his house. He trades the saturn for a toyota.  He  
was looking at the camry hybrid, but settled on the prius.  He was  
strutting his stuff about what a great move he had made.  I did not  
feel the need to knock him off his pedestal and let him know just  
what a fake goodness he had done.  Saw him chatting up the other  
neighbor with a new diesel VW about what a smooth move the hybrid  
was.  Fool works for the evil empire, figure he is clueless, so why  
waste good breath pointing out his failures


clay

On May 26, 2007, at 5:57 PM, Kevin Kraly wrote:

  
It's all in the marketing.  People are told that their hybrid is  
helping the
environment, and that's a good thing to help pollution and be more  
green,

lots of hipe.  I'll just stick with my Diesels.

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
1983 300SD 267Kmi, Ursula


  

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Redghost]

Not sure what his little mind was up to.  He spewed out three kids in  
18 months, had no room in the one car, so had to get his wife a  
minivan, he sees two other prius on the block, three hybrid honda, so  
maybe he joins the crowd?  I have seen an increase the number of  
three point star cars in the neighborhood.  At least one on each  
block within a seven block radius.  Not many diesels, but that may  
change.


clay

On May 27, 2007, at 9:46 AM, Rich Thomas wrote:


Maybe the Prius has some good points, but I notice that the people who
drive them seem to be 1) holier than thou-looking types (I know,  
that
is a bad way to put it, but when you look at someone you can  
usually get
a half-decent read of their personality) with progressive  
stickers on
the bumpers, or 2) rather clueless consumers who heard that it is a  
good

thing and go pay for it not really analyzing the whole deal, or 3)
status-seekers among their crowd.  Your MSFT guy probably fits in at
least 2 of these groups if not all 3.  Most of my community probably
fits that profile as well. There is probably a very small  
percentage who

really understand all the factors, and make the decision.  But I also
see a lot of VW TDIs around, and new diesel Benzes for those in that
price range.  A lot of old diesel Benzes driven by people like this  
group!


I think there is a lot of marketing going on these days about fuel
mileage and global climate change and such, that is not reality- 
based in

many respects.  Who knows what the answer is ( a combination of
behaviors and equipment I would think), but somehow I just don't  
get the

feeling that the Prius is the whole answer.  And I wonder too why they
don't make these kinds of cars plug-in hybrids right out of the box to
gain even more efficiencies.

--R

Redghost wrote:

Microscum slave next door just had the sales folks over yesterday to
demonstrate cars at his house. He trades the saturn for a toyota.  He
was looking at the camry hybrid, but settled on the prius.  He was
strutting his stuff about what a great move he had made.  I did not
feel the need to knock him off his pedestal and let him know just
what a fake goodness he had done.  Saw him chatting up the other
neighbor with a new diesel VW about what a smooth move the hybrid
was.  Fool works for the evil empire, figure he is clueless, so why
waste good breath pointing out his failures

clay

On May 26, 2007, at 5:57 PM, Kevin Kraly wrote:



It's all in the marketing.  People are told that their hybrid is
helping the
environment, and that's a good thing to help pollution and be more
green,
lots of hipe.  I'll just stick with my Diesels.

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Peter Frederick]

There is no environmental gain from using chargeable hybrids -- you 
just replace using gasoline or diesel for the much higher carbon output 
coal fired power plant (with huge transmission loses, as they never 
build the plants were the power is used, they stick us poor 
midwesterners with them).


The real solution is not to drive as much, and I've gotten into the 
habit of staying home on weekends.


Peter

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Mike Canfield]

Read this:  (CHP = Combined heat and power)  This is from another board I am 
on..Very interesting proposal.
Here's a possible proposal to keep the costs of suburban motoring down, 
whilst making use of renewable fuels and the energy efficiency available 
from a CHP system.


The illustration is intended for suburban UK, but the model could be 
adjusted to apply to any suburban city.


It basically combines your energy requirements for electricity, heating and 
suburban transport such that all three can be met using a single system that 
burns renewable fuel. It effectively offsets the heat energy wasted by an IC 
engine as a means of providing home heating, and uses an electric vehicle as 
a means of load balancing an otherwise poorly balanced CHP system.


A small commuter car, the G-Wiz has been available in the UK for some 3 
years now, and it is gainig popularity in London, mainly because it is 
excempt the £8 daily congestion charge, and parking is free at many 
locations in central London.


http://www.goingreen.co.uk/store/

It has a maximum range of 48 miles at urban city speeds, and has a battery 
pack of approximately 10kWh.


Whilst a small diesel engine genset can provide sufficient power for a 
typical household, the heat recovered is generally insufficient to meet the 
winter needs of the house.


By incorporating the charging of a small commuter type electric vehicle, 
with a battery capacity of close to 10kWh, the total daily electrical load 
would be effectively doubled, thus doubling the available heat output.


The battery of the EV would act as a load balancer for the CHP system at 
times of low domestic power demand.


Assume that 10kWh is needed for the household per day and 10kWh is needed to 
recharge the EV.


20kWh of electicity will require 10 litres of fuel per day at a cost of 
£0.30 per litre. Fuel cost £3.00


20kWh of electricity at £0.10 kWh is worth £2.00

Recoverable heat from 10 litres of fuel = 50kWh heat worth £1.50

Mileage available form EV, up to 48 miles per day, off-setting diesel fuel 
costs of about £0.10 per mile.


In principle, for someone commuting 20 miles each way, this technique could 
reduce heat power and transportation costs to about £3 per day.


Additional top-up heat could be supplied by burning the fuel directly if 
needed.


Any thoughts?

Ken



Mike


- Original Message - 
From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage



There is no environmental gain from using chargeable hybrids -- you
just replace using gasoline or diesel for the much higher carbon output
coal fired power plant (with huge transmission loses, as they never
build the plants were the power is used, they stick us poor
midwesterners with them).

The real solution is not to drive as much, and I've gotten into the
habit of staying home on weekends.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Rich Thomas]

Charge cars at night with base load nuke power (put them closer to where 
the power is needed, NIMBY be damned) then supplement with 
(energy-efficient) biofuels, makes sense to me.  My issue with little 
electrics and commuter cars to use for putting around town is the 
cell-phone yappers in bigass vehicles, for whom stop signs are not even 
within their perceptions (like the two I almost t-boned yesterday, 
within 6 blocks of the house).  Maybe roll cages and restraints are the 
answer, though m1v1=m2v2 still applies?


--R

Peter Frederick wrote:
There is no environmental gain from using chargeable hybrids -- you 
just replace using gasoline or diesel for the much higher carbon output 
coal fired power plant (with huge transmission loses, as they never 
build the plants were the power is used, they stick us poor 
midwesterners with them).


The real solution is not to drive as much, and I've gotten into the 
habit of staying home on weekends.


Peter


___
  

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Craig McCluskey]

On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:04:42 -0500 Rich Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Maybe roll cages and restraints are the answer, though m1v1=m2v2 still
 applies?

It's an inelastic collision, so what applies is,

12  1   2
   ---  m  v=  --- m  v
21  1   2   2  2


Craig

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Craig McCluskey]

On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:19:58 -0400 Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 A small commuter car, the G-Wiz has been available in the UK for some 3 
 years now, and it is gainig popularity in London, mainly because it is 
 excempt the £8 daily congestion charge, and parking is free at many 
 locations in central London.
 
 http://www.goingreen.co.uk/store/
 
 It has a maximum range of 48 miles at urban city speeds, and has a
 battery  pack of approximately 10kWh.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVA,

 The UK Department for Transport found serious safety concerns after
 crashing a G-Wiz at 35mph into a deformable barrier on April 24, 2007
 [6], which is the normal test for cars.

 Likewise, a test commissioned by Top Gear magazine that followed the
 Euro NCAP crash test specifications found that the occupants would
 suffer serious or life-threatening injuries in a 64km/h crash.[7].

 The G-wiz is presently exempt from most crash test rules, because its
 size allows it to be classed as a quadricycle instead of a car.



Craig

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Peter Frederick]

I've wondered why there were no diesel hybrids, it seems to me very 
obvious.


Hybrids are ONLY better in stop and go traffice, where the regenerative 
braking cancels out the fuel usage from acceleration.  On the highway, 
they get slightly worse milage than the equivalent non-hybrid.  I've 
gotten 32 mpg on the last two tanks of fuel in the 87 300D (due to the 
new head gasket and better compression), usually get 29 if I have to do 
lots of in town driving.  This is not that much worse than a hybrid.


One of my co-workers has a new Buick, the midsized one.  She gets 30-32 
on the highway and mid 20's in town, and believe me, that's no tiny tin 
can!


My brother's Jetta Diesel gets between 52 and 55 mpg on the highway 
(5-speed), again easily beating a hybrid, even in town!


Peter

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Craig McCluskey]

On Sat, 26 May 2007 13:41:48 -0500 Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hybrids are ONLY better in stop and go traffice, where the regenerative 
 braking cancels out the fuel usage from acceleration.  On the highway, 
 they get slightly worse milage than the equivalent non-hybrid.

Yes, indeed, with all that expensive extra baggage they're carrying
around.


Craig

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[Redghost]

There is a nut job with a VW rabbit that he runs as electric, but has  
an outboard rabbit front end set up as trailer running the diesel  
motor.  He uses it to power his electric car for normal travel, but  
when it needs a boost, he engages the driveshaft and has it push his  
car up hill or whatever he needs extra zoom.


I am thinking I saw someplace that Benz is making a diesel electric  
car/truck for consumer use.  Might be wrong and confusing them with  
railroads


clay

On May 26, 2007, at 11:41 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:


I've wondered why there were no diesel hybrids, it seems to me very
obvious.

Hybrids are ONLY better in stop and go traffice, where the  
regenerative

braking cancels out the fuel usage from acceleration.  On the highway,
they get slightly worse milage than the equivalent non-hybrid.  I've
gotten 32 mpg on the last two tanks of fuel in the 87 300D (due to the
new head gasket and better compression), usually get 29 if I have  
to do

lots of in town driving.  This is not that much worse than a hybrid.

One of my co-workers has a new Buick, the midsized one.  She gets  
30-32
on the highway and mid 20's in town, and believe me, that's no tiny  
tin

can!

My brother's Jetta Diesel gets between 52 and 55 mpg on the highway
(5-speed), again easily beating a hybrid, even in town!

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage was Re: Now, a liar on craigslist...

[Gary Thompson]

My 75 Blazer with 400 and full time 4-wheel drive never met a gas pump
it didn't like. I used to get roughly 8MPG. Didn't seem to matter what
I was pulling, though.


Gary Thompson
1995 E320


On 5/22/07, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

My brother has a 1973 Cadillac Sedan Deville.  It has a 472 in it.  He
gets about 7-8 mpg.

Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage was Re: Now, a liar on craigslist...

[Mike Canfield]

Had a 75 GMC pickup with the same setup.8MPG pulling the loaded 
trailer or running empty.


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: Gary Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage was Re: Now, a liar on craigslist...



My 75 Blazer with 400 and full time 4-wheel drive never met a gas pump
it didn't like. I used to get roughly 8MPG. Didn't seem to matter what
I was pulling, though.


Gary Thompson
1995 E320


On 5/22/07, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

My brother has a 1973 Cadillac Sedan Deville.  It has a 472 in it.  He
gets about 7-8 mpg.



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Re: [MBZ] fuel mileage was Re: Now, a liar on craigslist...

[Zoltan Finks]

Interesting: I was thinking about sharing with y'all the mileage I have
recently gotten in my '83 240D: 32.6 mpg. - on a mix of maybe 60 - 75%
highway and the rest pretty much city. Needless to say, I'm tickled.

And the engine is pretty peppy. Guess I got a good used engine from TriStar
Auto, or whatever they're called.

All this despite that fact that the car cracks and pops and pings and nails
and hesitates when cold. Hmmm.

Brian
83 240D


On 5/22/07, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Curt wrote:



The best I got with my '83 240D was 28mpg. I think it was happiest
between 60 and 65mph which seems to be about the same as my 190D.



The best I ever got in my (now OK Don's) 1990 300D 2.5 was 34 mpg. That
was exclusively highway miles.  Most of the time it was more like 29-31.




I once got 35 mpg in my 1990 Oldsmobile 88.  When I say once, I mean one
tank - it was a long highway trip. I was following someone that kept it
at 60-65 mph for miles and miles.   I know that sounds crazy to get that
in an Oldsmobile, but there was something about the 3800 engine in 1990
that was especially efficient.  I usually got about 31 mpg. I never
could get that in my 1987 Oldsmobile 98 or in my 1992 Olds 98.



My brother has a 1973 Cadillac Sedan Deville.  It has a 472 in it.  He
gets about 7-8 mpg.





Donald H. Snook

1990 300SEL 137K

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[John W. Reames III]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Donald Snook wrote:

 I have been seeing these numbers for exceptional fuel mileage on all
 sorts of cars and most of it surprises me.  Now, I would never have
 believed that the 90 300D 2.5 I used to have would get 34 mpg, but it
 did.  However, I am genuinely surprised to hear about 123's getting such
 good mileage.   

My 300SD got 26-27 regularly. I found the secret to good mileage on that 
one seemed to be go faster on the highway. Sadly this does not seem to be 
the case with the newer E300Dt's :( :(

I know it isn't much of an issue to turn 27 with the 300D, and on the 
atlanta-baltimore run I think it turned between 28 and 29.

-j.
--
1985 300D 223k Gerta
1991 Jeep Cherokee 149k the fishbowl
1999 E300Dt 106k (the creaky one)
1999 E300Dt 140k (the leaky one)

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage

[andrew strasfogel]

A lot of 123s (mine included) barely get 20-21 mpg; mine are mostly
exercised in city driving.

1983 300TD
1985 300CD

On 1/10/07, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have been seeing these numbers for exceptional fuel mileage on all
sorts of cars and most of it surprises me.  Now, I would never have
believed that the 90 300D 2.5 I used to have would get 34 mpg, but it
did.  However, I am genuinely surprised to hear about 123's getting such
good mileage.



I have had 3 of them and the best I could ever get on them was 25 mpg on
the highway.  I guess mine were bad examples because the last one had
nearly 500,000 miles on it.  But, I just thought I would always get
about 24 on the highway and I would get about 18-21 in town.   Now that
I am getting 20-21 on the highway, I can really appreciate getting 25
and would love to get 34 again.



Donald H. Snook

1990 300SEL 134K

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel mileage computers for diesels!!

[Trampas]

Omar,

I have build a engine monitor which can be used as fuel computer.

www.sterntech.com 

Trampas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of kayoooh @ gmail
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [MBZ] Fuel mileage computers for diesels!!

Hello List,
I am wondering if there is a portable or a semi portable mileage computer
available out there  for diesel cars and or trucks!

I know of ones that are available for boats with diesel engines and I
imagine the same could be available for automobiles. I'd rather not reinvent
the wheel and build one from scratch (which would take forever to begin
with)!!

Your valued input would be highly appreciated.

Omar.
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Re: [MBZ] Fuel mileage computers for diesels!!

[Jim Cathey]

I am wondering if there is a portable or a semi portable mileage 
computer available out there  for diesel cars and or trucks!


In the Dodge diesel pickup the factory mileage computer is open-loop,
in that it's not measuring fuel consumption at all.  (This is difficult
to do, especially with a fuel return line to measure also.)  Instead
it just measures the position of the fuel rack and consults its internal
table of fuel delivery to _assume_ what is being consumed.  Tolerably
accurate, unless there is something wrong or modifications have been
made.  Certainly as accurate as, let us say, a temperature gauge that
only has two positions!

I have always assumed that this is because measuring true consumption
is difficult, expensive, or involves relatively unreliable sensors,
or some combination of the above.  I also assume that they pretty
much all do it this way, so it's not like the junkyards are filled
with easily-salvageable fuel flow sensors.

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel

[Kayoooh]

 Message: 14
 Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:49:02 -0600
 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2  6.5 Diesel
 engines
 To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

 Both are good vehicles.  The 6.2 might be a little better because it
 wont have the electronic IP on it.  Wont have as much power though.
 Depending on the rear end, an older 6.2 will get anywhere from 17-18
 city and 20-24 highway.  The 6.5 turbo should be able to do about the
 same, once again, depending on the rear end.  Now my 1 ton 6.5 truck
 will only get about 12 no matter what its doing, but it has 4.10 gears
 in it.

Kaleb,
Please tell me why the 6.5 has less power? IS that by design, or due to
people tweaking the mechanical IP of the 6.2 for more fuel delivery?

Moreover, can you tell me how to find out what the rear end ratio is before
taking delivery of  the truck!?

Thank you,

Omar.

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

The 6.5 has more power, its turbo.  You can find out the axle ratio by 
looking up the RPO codes that would be on a sticker in the glove box.


http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/96transam/rpocodes.html

Kayoooh wrote:


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:49:02 -0600
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2  6.5 Diesel
engines
To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Both are good vehicles.  The 6.2 might be a little better because it
wont have the electronic IP on it.  Wont have as much power though.
Depending on the rear end, an older 6.2 will get anywhere from 17-18
city and 20-24 highway.  The 6.5 turbo should be able to do about the
same, once again, depending on the rear end.  Now my 1 ton 6.5 truck
will only get about 12 no matter what its doing, but it has 4.10 gears
in it.



Kaleb,
Please tell me why the 6.5 has less power? IS that by design, or due to
people tweaking the mechanical IP of the 6.2 for more fuel delivery?

Moreover, can you tell me how to find out what the rear end ratio is before
taking delivery of  the truck!?

Thank you,

Omar.


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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel

[LT Don]

There is a 'burban at a local car lot that I am eyeballing.

On 12/2/05, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The 6.5 has more power, its turbo.  You can find out the axle ratio by
 looking up the RPO codes that would be on a sticker in the glove box.

 http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/96transam/rpocodes.html

 Kayoooh wrote:

 Message: 14
 Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:49:02 -0600
 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2  6.5 Diesel
 engines
 To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
 
 Both are good vehicles.  The 6.2 might be a little better because it
 wont have the electronic IP on it.  Wont have as much power though.
 Depending on the rear end, an older 6.2 will get anywhere from 17-18
 city and 20-24 highway.  The 6.5 turbo should be able to do about the
 same, once again, depending on the rear end.  Now my 1 ton 6.5 truck
 will only get about 12 no matter what its doing, but it has 4.10 gears
 in it.
 
 
  Kaleb,
  Please tell me why the 6.5 has less power? IS that by design, or due to
  people tweaking the mechanical IP of the 6.2 for more fuel delivery?
 
  Moreover, can you tell me how to find out what the rear end ratio is
 before
  taking delivery of  the truck!?
 
  Thank you,
 
  Omar.
 
 
  ___
  For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
  For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 --
 Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
   89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
   84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
   76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

 ___
 For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
 For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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--
1977 240D
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

is it diesel?

LT Don wrote:


There is a 'burban at a local car lot that I am eyeballing.

On 12/2/05, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel

[LT Don]

Probably not - but this is the WRONG night to try to convince me to buy a
diesel anything.

On 12/2/05, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 is it diesel?

 LT Don wrote:

  There is a 'burban at a local car lot that I am eyeballing.
 
  On 12/2/05, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --
 Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
   89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
   84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
   76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

 ___
 For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
 For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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--
1977 240D
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel

[OK Don]

Hey - it's not the Diesels fault that you have a weak battery -- --

On 12/1/05, LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Probably not - but this is the WRONG night to try to convince me to buy a
 diesel anything.


--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D, '87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel engines

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Both are good vehicles.  The 6.2 might be a little better because it 
wont have the electronic IP on it.  Wont have as much power though. 
Depending on the rear end, an older 6.2 will get anywhere from 17-18 
city and 20-24 highway.  The 6.5 turbo should be able to do about the 
same, once again, depending on the rear end.  Now my 1 ton 6.5 truck 
will only get about 12 no matter what its doing, but it has 4.10 gears 
in it.


Kayoooh wrote:


Hello folks,
As some of you may remember I am actively looking for a Suburban with the
6.2/6.5 motor and during my search I have been hearing a lot of conflicting
statements on the reliability and mileage of said vehicles with those
particular motors. I was told by some to expect no more than 12 MPG while
others claim it to be 20+ MPG!!
What's up with this?

The advice/views of those who know this vehicle/motor, will be highly
appreciated.

Thank you all,

Omar.


___
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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2 6.5 Diesel engines

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Yea, thats ones worth 1800 unless something major is wrong with it.

Rick Knoble wrote:


I posted one a couple days ago from the Lexington Craig's List. It is
probably gone by now.
http://lexington.craigslist.org/car/114587375.html

Rick Knoble
1985 300 CD

- Original Message - 
From: Kayoooh [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:44 AM
Subject: [MBZ] Fuel Mileage of a Suburban with 6.2  6.5 Diesel engines




Hello folks,
As some of you may remember I am actively looking for a Suburban with the
6.2/6.5 motor and during my search I have been hearing a lot of


conflicting


statements on the reliability and mileage of said vehicles with those
particular motors. I was told by some to expect no more than 12 MPG while
others claim it to be 20+ MPG!!
What's up with this?

The advice/views of those who know this vehicle/motor, will be highly
appreciated.

Thank you all,

Omar.


___
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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts