Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Roll, you're a lunatic. But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then starts, and then stops, and then starts. Shit, I like my music to keep on rolling, and those guys were playing games with my ears. So there you have it. The rest of my over-intellectualizing pedantry -- advancing the stunning notion that UT fits into a continuum of music, and doesn't stand above folks like Lucinda, Dave Alvin, Neil Young, Doug Sahm, where alternative forms of country music are concerned -- is just pissiness brought on by having to stay home with the kids on -- yet another -- snow day. Now I've got to go out and intellectualize with a snow shovel. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 Re: Tweedy quote/alt.countr.. by "Terry A. Smith"@seorf.O But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then starts, and then stops, and then starts. I dug that wish Farrar would do it more now. Carl Z. snowbound
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
stuart wrote: I happened to catch Man in the Sand (the film about making Mermaid Avenue) on BBC, Whoa. Is this available anywhere here in the US? Off-list replies are fine if y'all discussed this to death while I was hiding. Dave, who is still laughing over having just heard new Cincinnati transplant Mojo Nixon on the radio, singing a song about Princess Di... *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Actually as absurd as this is gonna sound, you are not really the pedant/intellectualizing type Terry. I am sorry. You did manage to get a little condescension in there in my opinion, but ultimately your initial post had a bit too much passion. I am sorry. g -jim On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: Roll, you're a lunatic. But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then starts, and then stops, and then starts. Shit, I like my music to keep on rolling, and those guys were playing games with my ears. So there you have it. The rest of my over-intellectualizing pedantry -- advancing the stunning notion that UT fits into a continuum of music, and doesn't stand above folks like Lucinda, Dave Alvin, Neil Young, Doug Sahm, where alternative forms of country music are concerned -- is just pissiness brought on by having to stay home with the kids on -- yet another -- snow day. Now I've got to go out and intellectualize with a snow shovel. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
stuart wrote: I happened to catch Man in the Sand (the film about making Mermaid Avenue) on BBC, Whoa. Is this available anywhere here in the US? Off-list replies are fine if y'all discussed this to death while I was hiding. Dave Purcell I happened to be in England the same time as Stuart--and caught most of that same show late at night, wide awake post-jet lag...and yeah, it certainly showed pieces of antagonism (and apparent reconciliation) between the Bragg and Tweedy camps--and there seem to have been camps.. I know this has been shown nowhere in the US yet, Senor Purcell--but I got the impression from the credits (was it one of those Channel 4/AE coproductions?) that there were some Yanks involved in the thing, and that it would almost cerrainly show up here. I'd guess you can watch for it on big city PBS stations (and then others) during Rich Lefty Pledge Week; they've finally got something to show besides that Weavers film! Barry
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Fair enough, Todd. The most interesting aspect of this thread for me was seeing the residual (but powerful) respect and support for UT et al that exists on this list. I'm surprised, I guess, because whenever there's a sort of reflexive dismissal of the alt.country field -- many of whose bands were inspired by UT et al -- we're likely to see not a peep of protest or argument. The suggestion that "skill" is something that's solidly on the country side of the tracks sometimes goes unchallenged, too. I'd just like to see more sturdy debate from the rock side of things, rather than allowing the "country side" have the field. Me, of course, I'm on the polka side of the tracks! -- Terry Smith nr(reading): Robert Harris' "Archangel" about the modern-day discovery of Stalin's secret heir, living like a hermit in the woods near the White Sea. Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler?
RE: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
The suggestion that "skill" is something that's solidly on the country side of the tracks... Uh-oh, time for some clarification, or maybe backtracking g. I don't think I've argued that skill (why the quotes?) is something that's solidly on the country side of the tracks; I have argued, and I think there's plenty of evidence to support it, that craft is respected and valued in the country tradition in ways that it seems not to be, or at least not as much, elsewhere. One indicator, though not the only one, is the persistence of instrumental pieces in the country tradition, especially in bluegrass, cajun, old-time and other forms, though it can still be found in the mainstream, even today. Yes, they're often (though far from always) dance-related, but even so, recognition of and admiration for the musicians' abilities to just play well (as opposed to expressing particular emotions or thoughts) are important elements in the appreciation of these. I'd be hard-pressed to think of examples of instrumentals in the alt.country field that don't fall pretty clearly into the out-of-classic-country stream, rather than the, er, UT-and-before-and-after one. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 RE: Tweedy quote/alt.countr.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne I'd be hard-pressed to think of examples of instrumentals in the alt.country field that don't fall pretty clearly into the out-of-classic-country stream, rather than the, er, UT-and-before-and-after one. One problem I see with your logic, Jon, is that much of the rock side of alt.country's influences (especially the punk artists), for whatever reason, don't include many instrumentals. Bands influenced by the Clash, the Sex Pistols, and the Velvet Ungerground tend to sing (or shout), because vocals are essential to their music. Having said that, Victor Krummenacher's past two records each feature a nice instrumental -- the one on his last album owes a bit to Fleetwood Mac's "Albatross". The Sadies have a few on their album (I think the surf influence has a lot to do with it -- Alex, can you think of other surf-influenced alt.country types?), and Pinetop Seven's been known to do one or two. The Waco's did Geronimo on their first record. But these are atypical examples. Waiting to see mention of a Greg Ginn-influenced Western Swing instrumental band, Carl Z.
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
Sez Carl: One problem I see with your logic, Jon, is that much of the rock side of alt.country's influences (especially the punk artists), for whatever reason, don't include many instrumentals. Bands influenced by the Clash, the Sex Pistols, and the Velvet Ungerground tend to sing (or shout), because vocals are essential to their music. Sez Jon: That's my point. Even hedged with all kinds of qualifications, I think it's fair to say that in general, where vocals are essential, there's an orientation toward communicating emotions, ideas, etc., and technique and, well, skill - at least instrumental - are more than occasionally seen as, at best, irrelevant to that. See, now, and I thought the whole *point* of punk was to *not* be able to play well. I am not being facetious here. I thought the general punk stance was "F**k this elitist, bourgeois, closed music system. We're gonna play even though we don't know how, and maybe that'll turn the world of music on its ear, and even if it doesn't we'll have a good time with our mates making a whole lot of noise. Being all tied up in technique and knowing how to play is for wankers. Tear up everything." Why have instrumentals if it's important not to be one of those wankers who know how to play? Kelly, ready to have her simplistic understanding of punk adjusted NPIMH "All I Am Is Loving You" by The Teardrop Explodes
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Terry Smith: nr(reading). Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler? Well, Stalin liked sports; Hitler liked music. It bent these men a little, positively bent them. Barry (These are the wages of synthesis.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Barry Mazor wrote: Terry Smith: nr(reading). Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler? Well, Stalin liked sports; Hitler liked music. It bent these men a little, positively bent them. Barry (These are the wages of synthesis.) Yeah but was Stalin the Tweedy fan and Hitler the Farrar fan, or vice versa? Or did Hitler think that UT were the progenitors of alt-country, while Stalin asserted that it was a decades old form that was not being duly recognized as such by the UT fans, or vice versa? Or... totalitarianism, the original alt-country? g b.s.
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 RE: instrumentally speaking.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne The Sadies have a few on their album (I think the surf influence has a lot to do with it... Not to mention the bluegrass/country one g, which I'm reminded of because there was a fairly recent inquiry about the Good Brothers over on bgrass-l. True. I offer surf for a reason, as it is an instrumentally-based style of rock. Off the top of my head, I can't think of many twang bands who incorporate surf other than the Sadies (though I haven't heard Jimmy Wilsey's new band yet). Does anyone on this list play music in the style of Dick Dale? For that matter, can anyone think of a twangy band influenced by Camper Van Beethoven's trippy instrumentals? As for technical proficiency, I think David nailed that one on the head. Johnny Ramone's musical vocabulary, while small, is not limiting he does a lot with a few chords. Few Ramones songs could be called instrumentals, though they aren't exactly wordy. Carl Z. fave Ramones song: Warthog.
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
In a message dated 3/9/99 3:02:04 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: True. I offer surf for a reason, as it is an instrumentally-based style of rock. Off the top of my head, I can't think of many twang bands who incorporate surf other than the Sadies (though I haven't heard Jimmy Wilsey's new band yet). Does anyone on this list play music in the style of Dick Dale? I think only Dick Dale does Dick Dale, but Junior Brown did a pretty mean surf medley on Semi-Crazy. Joe X. Horn Pledge Drive Survivor
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, James Gerard Roll wrote: But I suspect that (while no-one will admit it) there is a certain status that A FEW people desire when part of a small cultish phenomenon like P2 that involves members wanting to prove that they are not part of the TREND but rather have a deeper affiliation with (in this case) the music. Thus the UT/Tweedy backlash. I'd estimate way more than a few, Jim. That attitude permeates the alt-country community. I can't even begin to count how many times someone's assured me they've been into this alt-country (or just plain country) stuff long before it became a fad, or read press releases or interviews or record reviews with someone asserting the same. A big part of that's no doubt the usual hipster cooler-than-thou pose (which can be found in just about any musical subgenre you care to name), but I'd like to think that it's also an implicit recognition of the value of tradition in country music. OK, I'm foolin' myself -- so what?g--don
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Yeah but was Stalin the Tweedy fan and Hitler the Farrar fan, or vice versa? Or did Hitler think that UT were the progenitors of alt-country, while Stalin asserted that it was a decades old form that was not being duly recognized as such by the UT fans, or vice versa? Or... Actually, Stalin reportedly enjoyed listening to orchestrated music with "dogs" doing the vocals. He'd force his generals and aides to dance until the early morning hours to this stuff. -- Terry Smith (who's sincerely sorry he threw this utterly non-musical issue out for comment -- is there a purge coming?)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Don Yates wrote: of that's no doubt the usual hipster cooler-than-thou pose (which can be found in just about any musical subgenre you care to name), but I'd like to think that it's also an implicit recognition of the value of tradition in country music. OK, I'm foolin' myself -- so what?g--don LOL That's the most hopeful and touching thing I have read in a long time Don!! GGG You ARE an old softy deep down. I'll actually buy that explanation . . . peoples' desire to harken back to the origin of THIS movement is kinda like an emotional cowboy hat!! and an old dusty one to boot . . . -jim
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
In a message dated 3/9/99 3:22:44 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can't think of many twang bands who incorporate surf other than the Sadies Deke dickerson did a few surfy numbers at the Cheapo instore on saturday. Good stuff. Slim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Hey there, Linda "it's not about the music it's about the internet" Ray That's pretty gosh darn funny. I'm a bit amused that there seems to be a strong alt.country (or at least Uncle Tupelo) backlash going on on this list. Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Christopher M Knaus wrote: Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g Welcome to the *dark* side, Chris. Eclectic club meets every 3rd Wednesday. Next meeting's focus: is Euro synth-pop dead? Jerry
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Chris wrote: I'm a bit amused that there seems to be a strong alt.country (or at least Uncle Tupelo) backlash going on on this list. C'mon, CK, why be amused? It's been clear to me for the past, oh, two years, that the name of this list is mainly incidental for many of us. It has about as much connection with the breadth of music discussed here, and the diversity of opinion about it, as the name "The Cowboys" has to do with that pack of gridiron miscreants who (occasionally) play football in Dallas. In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco, etc. With me, I hopped on Postcard, briefly, at the recommendation of my youngest brother, a UT fan, and then hopped off as soon as I heard about P-2. I'm not saying I'm typical in that respect; but I'm sure as hell not unique. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Linda Ray wrote: Yah. Actually, all UT started was P2. Well, and Postcard, of course. Well okay and No Depression Magazine, but, hey. Uh, you can bet dollars to donuts that P2 would've happened on its own. The accidental spawning of P2 off of Postcard nicely coincided with the general net boom. Nothing against the original Postcard-to-P2 folks (I was one, been on since day one), but P2 didn't get really interesting until lots of non-Postcarders started coming along. I don't recall Weisberger being on Postcard g. Splitting hairs on a cold sleepy Monday, Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco, etc. Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. I can call my parents when I need to be patronized. I'm shit-sick of the implication that rabid fans of UT, Wilco, etc. lack "perspective" on the history of country-rock and its periodic resurgences (as if that really is necessary), that their love of these bands is faulty if not broadened by an understanding of country-music history (and alternative-country history). I'm shit-sick of the way reaction against the media-hype surrounding these bands slides so effortlessly into nasty backlash against the bands themselves. While I'm at it, I'm also shit-sick of the suggestion that these bands' popularity was purely a media creation, and that they had no merit on their own beyond the myopic adulation of the music press. And I'm shit-sick of people blaming these bands for the lack of attention paid to earlier alt.country performers. Uncle Tupelo causing other acts to be "'disappeared' from rock/country history" (to use Cheryl's phrase)? Please. Todd (Joined Postcard in 1994 as an Uncle Tupelo fan. Knew pretty much nothing else about country music or alt.country music. Spent the last five years trying to learn. Spends all money buying CD's recommended by Don Y. and Jon W. Still thinks Uncle Tupelo is among the best two or three bands ever. Someday may grow up and know better.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
AMEN! Well said, Todd. Way to go... (I'm quoting Todd's message after this because it deserves to be read...) Tom ...who's heard a lot of cool music thanks to various P2ers but still can't get into country all that much. *grin* On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Todd Larson wrote: In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco, etc. Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. I can call my parents when I need to be patronized. I'm shit-sick of the implication that rabid fans of UT, Wilco, etc. lack "perspective" on the history of country-rock and its periodic resurgences (as if that really is necessary), that their love of these bands is faulty if not broadened by an understanding of country-music history (and alternative-country history). I'm shit-sick of the way reaction against the media-hype surrounding these bands slides so effortlessly into nasty backlash against the bands themselves. While I'm at it, I'm also shit-sick of the suggestion that these bands' popularity was purely a media creation, and that they had no merit on their own beyond the myopic adulation of the music press. And I'm shit-sick of people blaming these bands for the lack of attention paid to earlier alt.country performers. Uncle Tupelo causing other acts to be "'disappeared' from rock/country history" (to use Cheryl's phrase)? Please. Todd (Joined Postcard in 1994 as an Uncle Tupelo fan. Knew pretty much nothing else about country music or alt.country music. Spent the last five years trying to learn. Spends all money buying CD's recommended by Don Y. and Jon W. Still thinks Uncle Tupelo is among the best two or three bands ever. Someday may grow up and know better.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
...I placed all my blame on writers who can't seem to do anything but regurgitate press releases, and I thought Terry, etc., were also blaming the hype machine, and no one else. Well I'd like to think that I championed UT and much of it's related offshoots (SV's a bore at this point) in the press without the blind devotion to press releases. Besides, I don't know what press releases or hype machine were ever really behind UT to begin with, at least not until they were signed to Warner (which was only one album) and on the Wilco/SV projects since. I think they cultivated their small-but-mighty 60,000 sales fan base by making great records and playing their hearts out in piece-of-shit clubs every night in every town. Blame me then, because I'd say UT *did* start the 90s version of the roots rock/alt.country/whatever scene, or at least played a huge part in its vitality. Not consciously of course, it's not like they sat down and planned this (duh), but because they have made what I consider some of the most effecting, passionate and original twang rock of the decade, thus inspiring several others (often former punk rockers and/or college boys) to *try* to do the same. When I look back on the 90s and the *rock*-country associated with it, no doubt UT will be one of the main touchstones, if not *the* touchstone. Jeff's cuter than Jay, Neal Weiss
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Great passionate post from Todd "Touch me, I'm shit-sick" Larson, although I don't remember anyone blaming UT *or* their fans for anything. FWIW, I placed all my blame on writers who can't seem to do anything but regurgitate press releases, and I thought Terry, etc., were also blaming the hype machine, and no one else.= In terms of blaming UT, I was reacting primarily to Cheryl Cline's assertion: "No Depression-UT focused attention on the music, true; but it focuses attention *away* from a large chunk of alternative country music as well. It's being "disappeared" from country/rock history even as we speak." I read this, perhaps incorrectly, as not only an indictment of the hype, but also of the band. It's tough not to read in the sentence the accusation that UT was somehow complicit, if only by their presence, in the disappearance of other/previous alt. country music. You know, like they did something *wrong.* (I'm also not sure that "attention" is a zero-sum game -- that other alt.country would have received it if UT did not. Any actual evidence of who is being "disappeared"?) On a broader level, I was struck by the smugness of some of the posts which reduce UT and the current alt.country phase to just another "ripple" in the alt.country pond which we UT fans could see if we' d get our head out of our asses and look at the big picture. Even if intended to introduce perspective, the effect of these posts is to dismiss the genuine affection people feel for these bands as immature, short-sighted and misguided. At least as I read it. I admit I may be a bit oversensitive or defensive to this because I happen to have entered the (alt) country fold via UT, but it does seem to me that backlash against the No Depression hype too often results in a dismissal of the hyped bands themselves, as if they were *only* a media creation and had nothing of real value to offer. (This obviously goes way beyond this genre.) If people think UT has no value, that's fine w/ me, but it's a shame if that distaste stems not from the music but from reguritated press releases or frat-boys screaming for "Drown" at the concert . Todd Hoping his Twangpin team shirt isn't embroidered with "shit-sick"
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Jeff's cuter than Jay, Neal Weiss possibly. But Jay writes better songs. I am frankly baffled by the Summerteeth hype. My copy will be filed alongside Lucinda Williams' Car Wheels: played it once, tried to play it again, got bored rigid. Stevie
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Todd Larson said: Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. ...and a lot of other very perceptive stuff. Y'know, I'm a little tired of having to apologize for being a UT fan, too. They're just a band, for chrissakes, and I happen to think they were a damn good one. What's to backlash against? Bravo, Todd. --Jamie S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wavetech.net/~swedberg http://www.usinternet.com/users/ndteegarden/bheaters
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
In a message dated 3/9/99 1:57:25 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. ...and a lot of other very perceptive stuff. Y'know, I'm a little tired of having to apologize for being a UT fan, too. They're just a band, for chrissakes, and I happen to think they were a damn good one. What's to backlash against? Yeah, I feel the same way of how I always have to defend my love for the Deliberate Strangers. Damn it, they're a great band, but there are just too many metalheads here in Dee-Troyt. Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road np: Dream Syndicate "3 1/2"
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Reading the day's P-2 stuff late, and amazed how a few folks' simple challenge of UT's status as godheads of alternative country is being seen as heresy. A bloody explosion of defensiveness. I didn't really even see anybody criticize the music; it was mainly just a few expressions of annoyance at the notion that UT started alt.country, when, as Todd correctly (if ironically) described it, they represent a ripple -- OK, a small mountain-range -- in the continuum of country-rock and alternative-to-commercial country music. That annoyance doesn't arise from any dislike of UT, Wilco or SV -- at least not from me. As I said, I've got great fondness for UT's non-hard rock stuff, as well as SV and to a lesser extent Wilco. The irritation for me stems from the implied trivialization of all the great alt.country acts that came before UT -- or which were playing their asses off at the same time. God, nobody's even mentioned Neil Young in all this. (This debate arises from differences in defining alt.country, rather than differences in appreciation of UT, I'd guess. If we stipulated those definitions, we'd probably all have a group hug.) As for over-intellectualizing the music, um, if we stop talking about music on this list -- and WHY we like it or don't like it -- then I guess it's back to comparing notes on peanutbutter, mayonaisse and banana sandwiches or somesuch nonsense. Even tossing out a term like "over-intellectualize" is a Stalinist-type conversation-stopper. Send those damn professors out to the fields. Now. From all the huzza-huzzas that erupted after Todd's post, however, it's evident that there's a lot of seething resentment among list members who feel that UT et al are unfairly slapped around on this list. Well, folks, jump in anytime. Not you, Neal, you jump in plenty already (g). -- Terry Smith np Paul Kelly's "Words and Music." Criminy, the tune "Gutless Wonder" has a sort of Richard Thompson-esque nasty freaking attitude about it, doesn't it?
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Hey there, Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g Welcome to the *dark* side, Chris. Eclectic club meets every 3rd Wednesday. Next meeting's focus: is Euro synth-pop dead? Jerry Let me ammend my original statement. Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything except for alot of the crap that Jerry listens to. g ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
In Defense of Deliberate Strangers (was: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country)
Hey Tom, Knowing you and your music, you would probably get more into UT's "March 16-20" album. All acoustic-based pretty much and album of "Acuff-Rose" type songs. Damn! Just shot another Del-Stranger hater out my window with my musket. Hope I didn't hurt him too bad. I'll be sure to rid the Motor City of these vermin before this year's big Deliberate Strangers Hogwild World Tour (supposedly, UT is considering reuniting to open for DS on their Midwest leg of the tour). Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
purcell wrote: Nothing against the original Postcard-to-P2 folks (I was one, been on since day one), but P2 didn't get really interesting until lots of non-Postcarders started coming along. Thank you Dave. I will take that as a complement. Todd Larson in his pledge for President of P2 wrote: (Joined Postcard in 1994 as an Uncle Tupelo fan. Knew pretty much nothing else about country music or alt.country music. Spent the last five years trying to learn. Spends all money buying CD's recommended by Don Y. and Jon W. Still thinks Uncle Tupelo is among the best two or three bands ever. Someday may grow up and know better.) See Todd, the first thing you have to realize is NOT to buy anything recommended by Yates or Weisberger. Paul np: Potatomen - On the Avenue
Re: Tweedy quote /generations
Carl wrote: I think if you look at the P2 Survey you'll see the untruth of this. I'm convinced that alt-country is a (as Monsieur London puts it) "tailbust" and "gen-x" phenomenon. A glance around the audience at any alt-country show I've attended shows it skewing way to folks in their late-20s to mid-30s, with a smattering of younger and older. Hi Carl - first, let me say that I am not questioning anything which Jake posted or which you and he discussed. Interesting, well thought-out read and I can't wait for the Cliff Notes to come out on this However, I have a few comments if you will. I wouldn't at this point consider the P2 survey to be an accurate representation of the average listener and record buying/concert going public. A high percentage of listmembers are either music writers, critics, dj's, musicians, other industry personnel or those who have a deep love for and knowledge of music. It may not be fair to assume comparisons when persons involved in the industry have greater access to indie releases and a usually more saturated and comprehensive view of form and structure. So, while the P2 survey was insightful, I don't believe it should be taken as an accurate assessment as to what's going on in the minds of your average consumer. I've found most alt.country shows to be a mixed bag of patrons for the most part. I don't think I could say that one particular age group takes precedence. However, I do remember a BR5-49 show where the audience "looked" decidedly twenties to thirties and the same was true of a Freakwater and Marah show. But then, I also consider that many people of the baby boom age aren't routinely going to clubs or frequenting concerts. Most of their disposable income is outlayed elsewhere with perhaps a video rental on a Saturday night. Yet, that generation (whether first wave or second or the third wave "tailbust" as Jake referrred to it) grew up on folk, rock-n-roll, beatnik prose, protest marches, rockabilly, The Nashville Sound, traditional country, soul, motown, pop, the california sound, the philly sound, southern-rock etc; and we like those elements incorporated into the music we prefer to listen to. Alternative country seems to be "home" for many of us as opposed to new country or alt.rock. I would much rather listen to a good old Linda Ronstadt tune than suffer through the pop/country blandness which I find in recordings from say, Trisha Yearwood or JoDee Messina who have both listed Ronstadt as an influence upon their work. I do think it's correct to say that a certain percentage of the Gen X'ers are drawn to alt.country, but that may only be for the bands which evolved from the post-punk era. Even then, it seems to me that the main influence upon that group was more in the direction of radio-friendly metal (Van Halen, and its ilk), the glam-rock pop such as Duran, Duran and the emergence of hip-hop and rap. Country took a decided downturn for some time in the eighties until the "new traditionalist" style came along and took hold and for many of the Gen X era, country just wasn't "cool". So, for many of the now young to mid thirties crowd, I don't think country had much to do with their likes and dislikes, rather rock and punk was the driving influence. That group's attraction to alt.country may be in the style which uses a base of punk-rock for the body of their work. However, punk-rock is not lost on those born during the second or end wave of the baby boom generation. That generation in total experienced probably the most widely diversified stylings of popular music heretofore or since. It is only natural that we would be able to relate to the grand mixture of styles which alt.country provides. Tera The punk connection of the "insurgent" side in particular makes the demographics fairly easy to track. Refer back to the Wilson-London chronicles for various bafflingly vague descriptions of the broader implications of this general pattern. I do think it's important that alt-country has a Gen-X connection (and as Jake noted, even a few years difference in age has some important implications for where in musical-cultural history you'll stand). And I'd also assert New Country is much more boomer-oriented than is alt-country - thus HNC takes its rock influences from Billy Joel, not from the Clash. Carl W.
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
At 5:34 PM -0500 on 3/5/99, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a decade too late. Yeah but, can't a decade too late also mean brand new to a new generation? Well, sure, if they've got no perspective. Asleep at the Wheel invented western swing, too. Bob
Re: Tweedy quote
I don't think I was asserting a simplistic summation of twentieth century music inasmuch as I was trying to say that successful music from any generation seems to be tied to the 16-30 crowd. "Successful" meaning that it sold well and helped to define a particular generation for the history books etc;. You spoke of Elvis and his influences - I agree; certainly we are all products of and influenced by that which preceeded us. To say that the youth are only impressed or stimulated by "suggestive" rhythms and lyrics would not be accurate in total context on my part and I only served this up as an example as to why "new country" sells big and "alt.country" does not. Alt.country does not seem to glamorize sex, fashion and beauty and the beginning phase of independence which would "speak" to young people. Basically, each member of a generation has to struggle with not only their own individual identities, but find a common ground with which to belong or identify with their peers. I do not believe that what we call alternative country (in general and there are exceptions) supports or relates to issues broadly concerning the youth. There aren't any wars right now such that the Vietnam War acted as catalyst for the hippie movement of the sixties and was further solidified in music and there aren't any great rebellions at present. I would have said something about rap here, but isn't that becoming culturally accepted as mainstream more and more? The alt.country part of music seems to speak to moods, experiences, emotional/intellectual decisions and memories such that we as grown-ups begin to categorize, filter, extract and absorb in honing ourselves as mature beings. I find it hard to believe that the general youth populace would have enough patience to understand and relate to the music of say, Gillian Welch, Dave Alvin, Cheri Knight, Lucinda Williams, Mike Ireland...etc; Well, enough about that. Your last two sentences regarding commercialism: I suspect that what you say is true to the extent that it appears as though many record companies are trying to find the next "big" thing and may be trying to singlehandedly "construct" a genre which defies a decidedly "country" or "rock" labeling and that at this point, many of the contemporary engineers of this left-of-middle styling (of which Tweedy is one) would find such labeling - pigeonholing if you will, very limiting and restricting as if to say that their product yields to the dollar signs dancing around in the heads of company executives. Yep, you have a good point, Lance. Tera Lance said: Though I found myself nodding along with most of your assertions, Tera, I would insert one caveat. While Elvis Presley would certainly win a lot of votes as this century's most influential performer, and his music was certainly frantic AND highly-charged sexually, it wasn't quite so simple. He also took his cues from non-frantics like Dean Martin and the "White" hit parade, and his example is repeated often, for even the most "suggestive" musicians. The pop charts have been something that has affected even the most marginal of musics--in one way or another--and in some cases it was good, in others not. Thus, some alt.country musicians may be struggling with this very punk sense of "How commercial is too commercial?" Or from the record company's/financial investor's side: "How country can alt.country be and still make a decisive commercial impact?" Lance . . .
Re: Tweedy quote /generations
At 12:06 PM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote: Tera wrote: - alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd. Just a quick note as I gather breath to respond to Jake's epic call'n'response from yesterday - I think if you look at the P2 Survey you'll see the untruth of this. I'm convinced that alt-country is a (as Monsieur London puts it) "tailbust" and "gen-x" phenomenon. A glance around the audience at any alt-country show I'd disagree with this. Bands like Whiskeytown, Son Volt, and Wilco skew younger. I recognize the collecting passion in the voices of the customers that is one of you. That is, the "I must have EVERYTHING Whiskeytown released," passion. Same one I had for REM 15 years ago. The older folks, the ones with jobs and largely without .EDU at the end of the e-mail account, are more into the music. These are the 30-somethings and 40-somethings. At least, where I work this is how it shakes out. Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
Re: Tweedy quote /generations
In a message dated 3/6/99 9:18:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The older folks, the ones with jobs and largely without .EDU at the end of the e-mail account, are more into the music. and less into the bands? wait. . .I'm confused. This often happens at the brink of a cosmic insight. Please keep going with this train of thought until I can catch up. Seriously. Linda
Re: Tweedy quote /generations
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The older folks, the ones with jobs and largely without .EDU at the end of the e-mail account, are more into the music. and less into the bands? wait. . .I'm confused. This often happens at the brink of a cosmic insight. Please keep going with this train of thought until I can catch up. Seriously. Linda Jeff's on a roll today, Linda (on the fluff list too)..and I think he IS getting at something true here too..as only somebody able to track actual record buyers responses would be! To those who for the latest thing is the First Fire, there is that throwing themselves into the thing they've heard, and they want to just breath in every ounce of it..(this accidental metaphor has got to go!)..But as wee get to having been around a little, and been through, uh, repeated incidents, the ol perspective starts to kick in, inevitably...and you get careful in a way that would only seem "tired" to the spanking new...careful to look for what's live and lasting in that music, wherever and from whenever you find it. For most listeners, life, omey and this tendency is going to rule out the full musical "perv" on anybody brand new in particular. I think that;s what Jeff's talking about--but I'd just add one special case asterisk here: for anybody crazed enoigh to be on P2 for long, these rules don't apply--.exactly. See, as WE get older, we do look around more broadly--but then termite right in obsessively on whoever turns out to grab us anyway. Lotsa times. Good for discussions--and good for record company and mail order sales, if w pay cash and don't still happen to be well-known working reviewer weasel types. Barry M.
Re: Tweedy quote
JG Roll said: I think that the bottom line is that Alt-Country is the commercial kiss of death. Nobody has really broken thru (Lucinda not excepted), and the radio format is a complete commercial wasteland. When you consider that these people (Wilco, etc.) are on major labels, and have been at this a long time, and want to keep their jobs, it shouldn't be such a mystery that they are very defensive when they seemingly cannot distance themselves from their past. Your first sentence sparked a few thoughts - alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd. In a sense, alt.country is our nostalgia as much as a repackaging of "70's Metal Greats" or any of those compilations you can see advertised on TV. New ground isn't really broken inasmuch as being a crow pie sampling of styles which in some cases would not spark the interest of the primary album-buying public; not looking at statistics here, but I would say in general is the 16-30 aged crowd. There just isn't enough adrenaline to spark that interest. You can go back through the twentieth century and see that the predominating influential music of an era was rather high-speed frantic, sexually charged rhythms and lyrically suggestive vocals which seemed to "speak" to the adrenaline-laced, sexually confused, frustrated and seemingly manic-depressive alter states which is adolescence and partly the spirit which follows the freedom-as-adult concept.. Does alt.country at this point, speak to that audience? From flapper to big band swing to rockabilly to hard rock to alt.rock, it is a beat/style which is in keeping with the internal energy of a particular age group. Such that, at sixteen you may have worshipped at the altar of heavy metal, however at 35 or forty, you recognize that influence, smile a bit while still liking a good metal tune but you go on as you've grown with the myriad of transforming experiences encountered in your twenties, thirties and so on.At this point, we're ready for a mixture of nostalgia woven into our favorite rock and country artists and all the subgenres inbetween. Our internal systems have slowed (matured) a bit, craving substance over a quick fix. Alt.country is that musical balance for the baby boomer crowd, but it is not one which will enrapture or be embraced by the primary record buying public. Alt.country has to find a relevant "hook" with the teen to twenties crowd, "find" a breakout artist or just be content with receiving it's due in about twenty years. That, in my opinion is why Tweedy and others do not wish to be associated with an alt. labeling. "Music your mom and dad would like" to quote something else is not what platinum sales are all about. Tera
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Your first sentence sparked a few thoughts - alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd. In a sense, alt.country is our nostalgia as much as a repackaging of "70's Metal Greats" or any of those compilations you can see advertised on TV. New ground isn't really broken inasmuch as being a crow pie sampling of styles which in some cases would etc. etc. -- from Tera This stuff confuses me, as does the idea that a "movement" evolved around Uncle Tupelo and Tweedy/Farrar. A lot of folks, including a lot of "elderly" people on this list, have been listening to what's currently encapsuled in the alt.country category, for up to 30 years, and even longer. Nothing started with Uncle Tupelo, except for a stampede of non-Austin rock-n-rollers deciding to twang it up for awhile, and, thereby, making it a lot more difficult for people like me to pick the wheat from the chaff in the catalogs and record stores. So while there may be a lot of 40-year-olds gravitating toward the alt.country category, there's a lot of us who were hanging around listening to this stuff before Jeff Tweedy was out of short pants. -- Terry Smith ps enjoyed reading the transcripts of the A-list Nashville session musicians, from the 50s to early 70s, in the Journal of Country Music. I was wondering how much of those guys' nostalgicizing about the way things used to be, and about how the session business has changed, is understandable romanticizing, and how much is on point. One point they made was that these days session guitar and keyboard players don't have recognizable styles, while in the "old days" players had a signature sound, and if they didn't, they were in big trouble. (Thanks, Jon, for the issue.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
OH boy. Man Terry, you really have my blood boiling up here in Ann Arbor, and I am sure this debate has happened here before. But I am gonna bite anyways. On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: This stuff confuses me, as does the idea that a "movement" evolved around Uncle Tupelo and Tweedy/Farrar. I think you've got your head in the sand if you think that Uncle Tupelo was not at the helm of the current No Depression/Alt. Country ship. This does not mean that they are a great band or that there wasn't non-commercial country prior to UT, (much as one would have to admit there was brit-pop and skiffle prior to the Beatles -- or -- sexy Honky Tonk/RB prior to Elvis Presley). But whether or not you like them we wouldn't have the term Alt.Country or No Depression used as it is without a few select bands UT, Jayhawks to name a couple. A lot of folks, including a lot of "elderly" people on this list, have been listening to what's currently encapsuled in the alt.country category, for up to 30 years, and even longer. This reminds me of a teenager trying to take owenership of his favorite punk band or grunge band. 'I heard it first!! I heard it first". This really isn't relevant to the UT/Tweedy posts. I am 33 years old and have been listening to Hank WIlliams/Bill Monroe/Carters/Balfa Brothers/The Outlaws/Marshal Tucker/The Long Riders/Green on Red/Steve Earle/Dwight Yoakam et. al. for most of my life. Big Deal. I think the point here is not whether the knowledgeable listener appreciates the music, but rather simply from a marketing point of vew the demographic is worth a commercial major label working it. I think Tera's point was well made. The stuff that sells is adolescent/sexy hormonal . . . and Alt. Country, whether the 40 somethings own it or not, is not gong to sell on that level. It's not meant to insult the "elderly" g. Nothing started with Uncle Tupelo, except for a stampede of non-Austin rock-n-rollers deciding to twang it up for awhile, and, thereby, making it a lot more difficult for people like me to pick the wheat from the chaff in the catalogs and record stores. Well, I would somewhat agree with you here. But unfortunately there has always been wheat and chaff and posers and artists. It sounds like you resent UT in some way. Well you have that right. But you are making a senseless generalization here in my opinion. Whether you like UT or not they have had an influence and it is in many ways posistive. They are clearly not a traditional band . . . but they did turn a lot of people on to traditional music who may not have heard it. THey combined punk roots with a love for traditional music and caught people's attention. There are so many loaded words in the sentence above that I don't even want to touch it. Just remember that musicians have every right to be influenced by other music and to play what they want. And that in many cases there are people out there who think that it is a positive thing. Also, I would bet that many people take great solace in the fact that they can sort through the wheat and chaff. Some may even find it fun. What the 'non-austin' part has to do with anything I cannot even guess. IS Austin the only place where people can play Alt. Country?? So many rules to learn!! So while there may be a lot of 40-year-olds gravitating toward the alt.country category, there's a lot of us who were hanging around listening to this stuff before Jeff Tweedy was out of short pants. Uh. Well no doubt. So what?? Doesn't mean that Tweedy shouldn't play his music does it?? Does it mean that sub 40 people should ask permission to listen to him and/or the real alt. country?? I think you missed the point entirely, which is simply that the demographic is not 'Hit Record' material. Alt. Country people aren't old or over the hill -- but rather they very simply aren't teeny-bopper hit making parents'-dollar-spending major label marketing material. That's it. Whether or not you like UT (I am not even a huge fan) without them I say you don't have Alt. Country/No Depression and you may not even have the amout of re-releases that we see today. I also challenge the idea that Alt. Country suddenly includes Bluegrass, Countrypolitan, Old Time, Folk, Punk-a-billy, Cowpunk, etc. Those things existed as genres before Alt. Country and No Depression ever surfaced. I think ultimately the reason that all of those got thrown into the mix was to attempt (and one I would make too) to legitimize Alt. Country as a valid programming format for radio. And we are still losing this struggle . . . which leads back to Tera's point . . . -jim
RE: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Jim says: I also challenge the idea that Alt. Country suddenly includes Bluegrass, Countrypolitan, Old Time, Folk, Punk-a-billy, Cowpunk, etc. Those things existed as genres before Alt. Country and No Depression ever surfaced. So did country-rock. I think ultimately the reason that all of those got thrown into the mix was to attempt (and one I would make too) to legitimize Alt. Country as a valid programming format for radio. I don't. I think that including those under the alt.country umbrella follows in large part from the counterposition of alt.country to mainstream country, which has been a big part (maybe too big g) of alt.country's definition. One point worth recalling - and I wish I could lay my hands on the interview - is that at least once one of the UT guys has said that part of their interest in doing country-influenced music was for the outrageousness factor, i.e., what could be more convention-defying to punk-oriented peers than getting twangy? Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: Tweedy quote
How can anyone say Tweety is reinventing himself by 'creating' tired old 70s pop? I'm glad Bill Monroe (another genre creator) didnt feel the same need. Although I have a feeling some of you will say it wouldve been cool for BM to take a crack at soft rock. -- From: Dutch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tweedy quote Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 4:24 PM Sure its OK for an artist to "re-invent themselves" once in a while. Can anyone say Neil Young " Trans". Mr. Tweedy can say anything he wants and it doesn't change a thing. He comes from where he comes from and inspires who he inspires. Who knows maybe the whole alt-country/No Depression movement might benefit from a "Pet Sounds" impact type of album. Then again as an artist I know that any press is good press. Dutch Crowd of One -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tweedy quote Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 1:30 PM Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
James Gerard Roll wrote: > I think you've got your head in the sand if you think that Uncle Tupelo > was not at the helm of the current No Depression/Alt. Country ship. This > does not mean that they are a great band or that there wasn't > non-commercial country prior to UT, (much as one would have to admit there > was brit-pop and skiffle prior to the Beatles -- or -- sexy Honky Tonk/RB > prior to Elvis Presley). But whether or not you like them we wouldn't > have the term Alt.Country or No Depression used as it is without a few > select bands UT, Jayhawks to name a couple. In my best Beavis voice, I'd respond, "Uh...so what?" Uncle Tupelo wasn't at the helm of *anything*. The media made them, in retrospect, the leader of this so-called movement. Terry's point is well stated: country rock/roots rock has been around for a long damn time (as you well know) and it doesn't mean a hill of beans that a bunch of journalists who wouldn't know Commander Cody or the Scorchers from their own arses have declared UT as grand champeen of this last round of country rockers. I like UT a lot, but they weren't originators, they were simply a band the media folk latched onto. People can say it all they want, but it doesn't make it so. > This reminds me of a teenager trying to take owenership of his favorite > punk band or grunge band. 'I heard it first!! I heard it first". This > really isn't relevant to the UT/Tweedy posts. I am 33 years old and have > been listening to Hank WIlliams/Bill Monroe/Carters/Balfa Brothers/The > Outlaws/Marshal Tucker/The Long Riders/Green on Red/Steve Earle/Dwight > Yoakam et. al. for most of my life. Big Deal. Big deal, indeed. I agree completely with Terry, though -- it does get awfully fucking tiresome to read the tripe about UT starting some big movement, especially when one reads the oft-repeated claims that they somehow awakened a type of music that had been dormant since Gram Parsons died. Terry isn't trying to sound like the coolest guy on the block because he's been there, done that, he's just pointing out that it's a lot of bollocks. I'm sure I'll be just as annoyed when roots rock (god, I hate the fucking alt.country tag) makes it's next mid-decade resurgence in 2005 and some annoying kid is talking about being inspired by the ghost of Whiskeytown. On an unrelated note, it's ironic that Jim brings up Kerouac in reference to Tweedy because I'll gladly nominate Jack as the most overrated of the Beats. No one would've heard jack about Jack if Ginsberg hadn't tirelessly shopped and promoted his work. "On The Road" will always be a jackoff work compared to Ginsberg's best stuff. But that's matter for another list, I suspect g>. Not attacking you, Jim, you just happened to hit on a couple of my pet peeves. A lot hungover and a little cranky, Dave P.S. If this newest round of roots rock is so damned great, why are 95% of its leading lights from the previous go-round (Alejandro, Earle, Alvin, etc.)? *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Tweedy quote
You can go back through the twentieth century and see that the predominating influential music of an era was rather high-speed frantic, sexually charged rhythms and lyrically suggestive vocals which seemed to "speak" to the adrenaline-laced, sexually confused, frustrated and seemingly manic-depressive alter states which is adolescence Though I found myself nodding along with most of your assertions, Tera, I would insert one caveat. While Elvis Presley would certainly win a lot of votes as this century's most influential performer, and his music was certainly frantic AND highly-charged sexually, it wasn't quite so simple. He also took his cues from non-frantics like Dean Martin and the "White" hit parade, and his example is repeated often, for even the most "suggestive" musicians. The pop charts have been something that has affected even the most marginal of musics--in one way or another--and in some cases it was good, in others not. Thus, some alt.country musicians may be struggling with this very punk sense of "How commercial is too commercial?" Or from the record company's/financial investor's side: "How country can alt.country be and still make a decisive commercial impact?" Lance . . .
Re: Tweedy quote
"Chris Orlet" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How can anyone say Tweety is reinventing himself by 'creating' tired old 70s pop? Your slam at "tired old '70s pop" is just as ignorant as other people's slams at "tired old twangy country music". Don't be a moron. Bill Gribble
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote: reference to Tweedy because I'll gladly nominate Jack as the most overrated of the Beats. No one would've heard jack about Jack if Ginsberg hadn't tirelessly shopped and promoted his work. "On The Road" will always be a jackoff work compared to Ginsberg's best stuff. Wow, we must be of very differnt taste, Dave, because I don't think that Ginsberg (or many other people, much less Beats) have ever touched 'On the Road' (or for that matter even the last paragraph of 'On the Road'), Subterraneans, or Dharma Bums. At least we are consistantly opposed!! g -jim ps -- for me the term 'alt. country' indicates the combination of (post Nirvana) ALT-rock and traditional COUNTRY. UT/Jayhawks exemplefy this movement. I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here?? (by the way I am aware that the term 'No Depression' has its roots at the very least in The Carter Family -- but I would bet a quick survey of Peter Blackstock and Grant Alden would reveal that they used the term with UT somewhat in mind).
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
At 10:14 AM -0500 05/3/99, Dave Purcell wrote: In my best Beavis voice, I'd respond, "Uh...so what?" Uncle Tupelo wasn't at the helm of *anything*. The media made them, in retrospect, the leader of this so-called movement. Terry's point is well stated: country rock/roots rock has been around for a long damn time (as you well know) and it doesn't mean a hill of beans that a bunch of journalists who wouldn't know Commander Cody or the Scorchers from their own arses have declared UT as grand champeen of this last round of country rockers. I like UT a lot, but they weren't originators, they were simply a band the media folk latched onto. People can say it all they want, but it doesn't make it so. Well the genesis of this thread had to do with the way Tweedy is being perceived as distancing himself from the alt-country tag at seemingly every opportunity in interviews. The tag itself orginally gained wide currency to describe UT and similar bands, didn't it? Earlier bands in similar styles had other tags applied to them, such as roots rock, country rock, etc. Personally, I don't argue that these tags couldn't also be applied to UT, but Tweedy isn't bringing up these tags in his interviews. As I remember the articles, Tweedy specically addresses whether he would define his band as being part of the "alt-country" or "No Depression" movements. I don't think the point (originally) was whether UT originated or pioneered this style of music, but simply that they found themselves described with a label that didn't exist until after they had already started playing in that style. If Tweedy didn't set out to define himself with this tag -- as perfomers in well-established, long-defined genres such as blues or country do --, but rather found others defining his music for him, perhaps it's not surprising that he doesn't feel much loyalty or committment to keep using that tag. Ross Whitwam[EMAIL PROTECTED] Molecular Pharmacology Therapeutics Program Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, NYC
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
James Gerard Roll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here?? ND is *some* people's bible. Honestly I have never even seen a single issue of it. Last night I read a couple of the interviews in the ND book and I was not blown away by the writing. And I have never listened to a single Uncle Tupelo album. I saw Son Volt on Austin City Limits and they bored me. People's experiences are different, even within a "community" like alt.country/P2. Bill Gribble
Re: Tweedy quote /generations
Tera wrote: - alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd. Just a quick note as I gather breath to respond to Jake's epic call'n'response from yesterday - I think if you look at the P2 Survey you'll see the untruth of this. I'm convinced that alt-country is a (as Monsieur London puts it) "tailbust" and "gen-x" phenomenon. A glance around the audience at any alt-country show I've attended shows it skewing way to folks in their late-20s to mid-30s, with a smattering of younger and older. The punk connection of the "insurgent" side in particular makes the demographics fairly easy to track. Refer back to the Wilson-London chronicles for various bafflingly vague descriptions of the broader implications of this general pattern. I do think it's important that alt-country has a Gen-X connection (and as Jake noted, even a few years difference in age has some important implications for where in musical-cultural history you'll stand). And I'd also assert New Country is much more boomer-oriented than is alt-country - thus HNC takes its rock influences from Billy Joel, not from the Clash. Carl W.
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Jim's ps -- for me the term 'alt. country' indicates the combination of (post Nirvana) ALT-rock and traditional COUNTRY. UT/Jayhawks exemplefy this movement. I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here?? (by the way I am aware that the term 'No Depression' has its roots at the very least in The Carter Family -- but I would bet a quick survey of Peter Blackstock and Grant Alden would reveal that they used the term with UT somewhat in mind). As usual with this stuff, it all depends on how you look at it, and from what distance. When Uncle Tupelo came along, I listened to 'em and liked 'em quite a bit. Some of their records, both pre- and post-breakup, are among my favorites. But to this listener, at least, they didn't stand out stylistically from stuff I'd been listening to before. The Scorchers, Escovedo, Alvin, etc. They just sort of went into my record collection among all the other roots-oriented stuff I'd been throwing money at for years and years. It was only later that I started reading about their influence, etc. I'm not denying that influence, but just noting that, as Dave said, it probably has as much or more to do with circumstance and context as it does with the actual music. This applies to any music at any time, I guess, though with some music -- Elvis, the Beatles, Charlie Parker, Elmore James, Mozart, etc. -- the substance transcends or reinforces circumstance. All the yammering about Uncle Tupelo and alt.country by young squirts who wouldn't know Lefty Frizzell from Whitey Ford did get a little annoying, I'll confess. This debate, finally, really hinges on how narrowly you want to define alt.country. If you define it as punk-oriented guys playing guitar-driven rock with country undertones and heartland attitudes, who showed up in the mid- to late-80s, then I'll agree, you're probably correct about Tupelo and their influence on the genre. Draw the category a bit wider,though, and you're gonna have to contend with everybody from the Amazing Rhythm Aces to Mason Profit, from Rank and File to the Rolling Stones' Let It Bleed, from Ricky Nelson to Doug Sahm, from Carlene Carter to New Grass Revival, and on and on. And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I wasn't necessarily challenging her argument.
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Who's are the Scorchers? NW Some overrated roots band from the 80s. The future of nothing, as far as I can tell. marie
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Reply to: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED) Who's are the Scorchers? NW Some overrated roots band from the 80s. The future of nothing, as far as I can tell. marie As far as I can tell, Jason and the Scorchers was an important cowpunk band. And a hell of a live band. Hans P.
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On 5 Mar 1999, Bill Gribble wrote: ND is *some* people's bible. Honestly I have never even seen a single issue of it. Last night I read a couple of the interviews in the ND book and I was not blown away by the writing. And I have never listened to a single Uncle Tupelo album. I saw Son Volt on Austin City Limits and they bored me. Geez, this medium sucks. I am merely stating that one of the main journals reviewing Americana music (does anyone dispute this?? I am sure there will be) is named after a UT album. If you don't accept this, than I suggest you look up the Origin of the terms Postcard and Postcard2 . . . to which you surely must agree you participate. -jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I wasn't necessarily challenging her argument. Perhaps. I just find it frustrating that there is a debate as to whether on a concrete level, UT/Son Volt/Wilco can be associated with the origin of the Americana/No Depression/Alternative Country movement. To me it is a no brainer. And it seems highly relevant that both the No Depression Magazine and the Listserves 'Postcard' and the offspring 'Postcard2' are all directly related to UT songs and albums. I AM NOT CONDONING OR JUDGING THE QUALITY OR INTEGRITY OF THESE BANDS, MAGAZINES, OR ASSOCIATIONS, OR ADOPTING THEM FOR MYSELF. JUST ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEY EXIST FOR MANY (NOT ALL) PEOPLE. I am defintely done with this topic. -Jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith except that MY ONLY POINT was that the media has dubbed them as the originators of this movement and that THAT is what Tweedy is distancing himself from. --JR
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid fault and slept there for a few days in my flannel t-shirt and blue jeans. I then went out a bought a house with a screen door so, I, too, could have my friends over to sing. We would all have our whiskey bottles with us and bitch about the boss and how we just couldn't rip ourselves from our hometown. Those guys SPOKE to me man. They were real. They knew the struggle of farming, just like I did. -Original Message- From: James Gerard Roll [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 1:24 PM Subject: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED) On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I wasn't necessarily challenging her argument. Perhaps. I just find it frustrating that there is a debate as to whether on a concrete level, UT/Son Volt/Wilco can be associated with the origin of the Americana/No Depression/Alternative Country movement. To me it is a no brainer. And it seems highly relevant that both the No Depression Magazine and the Listserves 'Postcard' and the offspring 'Postcard2' are all directly related to UT songs and albums. I AM NOT CONDONING OR JUDGING THE QUALITY OR INTEGRITY OF THESE BANDS, MAGAZINES, OR ASSOCIATIONS, OR ADOPTING THEM FOR MYSELF. JUST ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEY EXIST FOR MANY (NOT ALL) PEOPLE. I am defintely done with this topic. -Jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid fault and slept there for a few days in my flannel t-shirt and blue jeans. I then went out a bought a house with a screen door so, I, too, could have my friends over to sing. We would all have our whiskey bottles with us and bitch about the boss and how we just couldn't rip ourselves from our hometown. Those guys SPOKE to me man. They were real. They knew the struggle of farming, just like I did. Tee-hee, this are funny. You know, there's something about comedy that just makes me laugh. Lance . . .
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote: As far as I can tell, Jason and the Scorchers was an important cowpunk band. And a hell of a live band. Hans P speaketh the truth, except that you can replace "was" with "is." Yeah, and Jason R.'s solo Cd a few years back was (is) the future of country music. Can you say, "It hit the charts with a resounding thud"? I thought you could. Overrated, overamped, overhyped, overplayed, overexposed, overdone, and over-the-top. Just digging Dave here..I loved them during their heyday, can't go down that road any longer. However "Absolutely Sweet Marie" off of the EP hit me like a shot between the eyes. What a perfect way to extend my appraciation for punk which was running on empty at that time. That is, I was tiring of indy punk material but still craved the energy. Bring on some meldoy and here came along cowpunk. I thought I was saved. Jerry NP: Lucy Kaplansky - Flesh Bone
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Jeff Copetas dreamt this up: Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid fault and slept there for a few days in my flannel t-shirt and blue jeans. I then went out a bought a house with a screen door so, I, too, could have my friends over to sing. We would all have our whiskey bottles with us and bitch about the boss and how we just couldn't rip ourselves from our hometown. Those guys SPOKE to me man. They were real. They knew the struggle of farming, just like I did. then lance davis wrote: Tee-hee, this are funny. You know, there's something about comedy that just makes me laugh. to which I add: yeah. huhuh! Especially when it sets a complete moron like me on the high road to knowing more about things. thanks Jeff, I see now. forget all that stupid stuff I said about Tweedy/UT peoples. k? I was dum . . . -jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith except that MY ONLY POINT was that the media has dubbed them as the originators of this movement and that THAT is what Tweedy is distancing himself from. --JR Actually, you made a few more points than that. My point, whether it dovetails apositively with your point or not, is that whatever media proclaimed Uncle Tupelo the originator of alt.country MUSIC suffer from a musical blind spot that's several decades huge. No argument, however, with the reality -- which is that somebody's wrongheaded assessment of Uncle Tupelo as a Brand New Musical Thang did, in fact, inspire a revitalization of the country-rock genre -- young rock bands playing country-type material. So we're both right -- they started something, but that something was started under false pretenses, whether UT intended it or not. I'm sure they didn't. Hey, there's no harm in arguing this stuff, is there? My wife thinks I'm dense, too. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a decade too late. Yeah but, can't a decade too late also mean brand new to a new generation? NW
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
In a message dated 3/5/99 12:14:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am merely stating that one of the main journals reviewing Americana music (does anyone dispute this?? I am sure there will be) is named after a UT album. I thought that was a Carter Family song. I have decided that I hate alt. country, and love country and western music. Slim
Re: Tweedy quote
Howdy, Dave: I'll gladly nominate Being There as one of the most overrated records of the 90s. There aren't enough good songs on there to make a good single disc, let alone two. I heart Dave Purcell. Take care, Shane Rhyne Knoxville, TN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a decade too late. and the unfortunate part of this is joe ely has yet to really find his decadeone of those artists who has been mining this "genre" (whatever the hell you folks want to call this genre) for yrs and yrs yet has never really broken thruyes, he has a nice base of people who like and respect him but he has never made that big jump and that is shame
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
In a message dated 3/5/99 9:14:18 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: /colorBig deal, indeed. I agree completely with Terry, though -- it does get awfully fucking tiresome to read the tripe about UT starting some big movement, especially when one reads the oft-repeated claims that they somehow awakened a type of music that had been dormant since Gram Parsons died. Yah. Actually, all UT started was P2. Well, and Postcard, of course. Well okay and No Depression Magazine, but, hey. Linda "it's not about the music it's about the internet" Ray
Re: Tweedy quote
Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt, Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves from alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop albums? I dont recall punk groups, or grunge acts going around denying they were punk or suddenly abandoning grunge and taking up jazz. What success, what base these artists have they have because of their early alt-country work. And now its seems they cant jump off the alt-country wagon full of alt-country hayseeds quick enough. -- From: Dave Purcell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Tweedy quote Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:42 AM Boo friggin' hoo. From SonicNet: "I think we could have made a record of sitar music and I think that people would still, or the byline behind our name would still say, 'alternative-country' or 'American roots rock' band. It'll take a long time to transcend that and it's fine, as long as we don't ever believe that, or allow ourselves to believe that." -- Jeff Tweedy, singer/songwriter for Wilco *** *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Tweedy quote
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Chris Orlet wrote: Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt, Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves from alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop albums? I dont recall punk groups, or grunge acts going around denying they were punk or suddenly abandoning grunge and taking up jazz. What success, what base these artists have they have because of their early alt-country work. And now its seems they cant jump off the alt-country wagon full of alt-country hayseeds quick enough. I'm sure it's partly due to artistic evolution -- some folks just genuinely feel like moving in different directions. Then again, I'd bet my Hitchike to Rhome album that label pressure is also often a factor. I don't think it's any accident that all of the bands mentioned above have signed to the rock divisions of major labels, and those labels could really give a flying fuck about fiddles and steel guitars. They're trying to break these bands at alternative radio, and I think it's naive to think there hasn't been any pressure exerted by those labels to deemphasize the twang. Often, the bands are happy to go along.--just call me smilin' don
Re: Tweedy quote
"Chris Orlet" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt, Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves from alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop albums? Some people like country, and pop, and rock, and jazz, and blues, and opera, and all of these things inform their music. That's what alt-country is about, in my mind (rock and country and other influences being synthesized to create something new). Songwriters have phases and stages and the ideas that move them change over time. I often feel that alt-country as a Thing is way too fickle. People are demanding twangy jukeboxes in funny western shirts instead of creative music and songwriting. That's sort of bogus. I'd want to distance myself from it, too. Nobody wants to be rassled into being a genre cliche. Bill Gribble
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Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that
Re: Tweedy quote
I think that the bottom line is that Alt-Country is the commercial kiss of death. Nobody has really broken thru (Lucinda not excepted), and the radio format is a complete commercial wasteland. When you consider that these people (Wilco, etc.) are on major labels, and have been at this a long time, and want to keep their jobs, it shouldn't be such a mystery that they are very defensive when they seemingly cannot distance themselves from their past. Even more so when the music itself is different and people don't seem to notice. 'Being There' had more Brian Wilson in it than it did any outlaw country act. Yet it must be frustrating to have the press/fans act as if they are still Uncle Tupelo. That said, I don't really think that they would alter their style just to distance themselves . . . but rather they are in new musical territory and want new fans (hopefully without losing the old stallworts). But like Rick Nelson sang: . . . "you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself." Well, anyway that's my take on it. -jim On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that
Re: Tweedy quote
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that He sure does. Then again, all of his defensive posturing takes nothing away from the pure pop brilliance that's Summerteeth. It's easily the best thing he's ever done.--don
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On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Don Yates wrote: On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that He sure does. Then again, all of his defensive posturing takes nothing away from the pure pop brilliance that's Summerteeth. It's easily the best thing he's ever done.--don Well, that's saying a lot. I'm looking forward to hearing Summerteeth. Kip (who didn't really mean for this above thing to do out, but I hit "send" instead of "delete"...I multitask badly)
Re: Tweedy quote
At 9:10 AM -0600 04/3/99, Chris Orlet wrote: Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt, Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves from alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop albums? I dont recall punk groups, or grunge acts going around denying they were punk or suddenly abandoning grunge and taking up jazz. What success, what base these artists have they have because of their early alt-country work. And now its seems they cant jump off the alt-country wagon full of alt-country hayseeds quick enough. Well, maybe you should go to the next Wilco show and clap very slowly between songs. Then, before the final song, you could yell out "Judas!" g. But seriously, it seems to me that artists often fall into two different camps -- one that takes pride in the genre in which they feel they are working, and one that chafes under the label by which they have been designated. And in the latter, it isn't just alt-country performers. By 1966, Dylan would bristle to be labelled "folk". He was a rocker, and he would insist that he had *always* been a rocker, right from the first acoustic albums. At that stage, he didn't want to be called a folk singer and would openly challenge and harass any interviewer who tried to pin him as a one. I believe Ricky Nelson as he grew older came to resent being labelled a pop singer, or, worse, a teeny bopper. Of course, who wouldn't dislike that label. But it was his teen idol status that was instrumental in marketing his early hits, and undeniably they were songs about teens, for teens, dealing with teen concerns. (Not that I'm putting them down -- I love "It's Late", "Stood Up", and all those other early Nelson gems.) Among perhaps less respectable names, I've seen MTV interviews with Van Halen in which the band try to brush off their heavy metal designation. They too wanted to be known simply as rockers, not limited (as they saw it) to a particular niche. And of course there's always list bugaboo Shania T., who is currently going around saying that she's about more than just country, that mainstream pop informs her muse as much as country and her music has and will more and more reflect that. I'm sure others can come up with better examples, but the question remains, why do some artists go out of their way to tell interviewers what they are not, which categories they should not be lumped into? I would guess that it usually isn't a case of disdaining their previous audience or wanting to put a distance between themselves and that early audience. Maybe it arises from reading their own reviews a bit too often. If you feel you are incorporating new styles and new approaches in your work, yet you perceive reviews to be dwelling on the styles and influences that used to be the dominant feature of your work, then you might get a bit irritated and start insisting on pointing out your new influences to the exclusion of acknowledging the old ones. In quite a few cases, it would seem to me, the reviewers aren't doing this, yet the artists seem to think they are. Jeff Tweedy I think is an example of this -- he often seems to pre-emptively bring up his belief that he definitely isn't in the alt-country camp on the assumption that interviewers are just biding their time before confining him there. As to why Tweedy doesn't have pride in his alt-country roots, I think it is significant that such a designation wasn't used until people started trying to categorise Uncle Tupelo and bands of their ilk. When UT started making music, they weren't conciously trying to fit into a specific musical genre. I guess I can see why he has no special attachment to a movement that developed around him. He didn't grow up immersed in that genre, he didn't discover it come to love it and set out to become part of it as if he had grown up immersed in it, he got put in it and, for whatever reason, he seems to feel it doesn't describe what he does now. Ross Whitwam[EMAIL PROTECTED] Molecular Pharmacology Therapeutics Program Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, NYC
Re: Tweedy quote
Right, right. so the question becomes, if he is no longer twang, when do we stop talking about Tweedy? Your smartass reply here__ Ross Whitwam writes: Jeff Tweedy I think is an example of this -- he often seems to pre-emptively bring up his belief that he definitely isn't in the alt-country camp on the assumption that interviewers are just biding their time before confining him there.
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James Gerard Roll wrote: I think that the bottom line is that Alt-Country is the commercial kiss of death. Nobody has really broken thru (Lucinda not excepted), and the radio format is a complete commercial wasteland. When you consider that these people (Wilco, etc.) are on major labels, and have been at this a long time, and want to keep their jobs, it shouldn't be such a mystery that they are very defensive when they seemingly cannot distance themselves from their past. Seems like these types also forget that there are some folks who seem to be doing pretty playing alt.country/roots rock/whatever you want to call it; folks like Steve Earle, Dwight Yoakam, Lyle Lovett, Rosanne Cash, Mary Chapin-Carpenter, Emmylou Harris, and some others I'm not thinking of at the moment, who came from the musical fringe and who, for the most part have stayed there. Tweedy should stop protesting (first it was the internet, now it's the alt.country tag) and try to write some decent songs. I'll gladly nominate Being There as one of the most overrated records of the 90s. There aren't enough good songs on there to make a good single disc, let alone two. No fan o' Tweedy, Dave np: Mike Johnson - Year of Mondays *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
RE: Tweedy quote
What in god's name are you talking about? Being There overrated? Oh yea, those Jason and the Scorchers were the best band ever! luv, rebecca -Original Message- From: Dave Purcell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Tweedy should stop protesting (first it was the internet, now it's the alt.country tag) and try to write some decent songs. I'll gladly nominate Being There as one of the most overrated records of the 90s. There aren't enough good songs on there to make a good single disc, let alone two. No fan o' Tweedy, Dave
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Proud Texan Rebecca wrote: What in god's name are you talking about? Being There overrated? Oh yea, those Jason and the Scorchers were the best band ever! I thought that might draw you out. I'm glad to see we agree. On both counts! Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
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Sure its OK for an artist to "re-invent themselves" once in a while. Can anyone say Neil Young " Trans". Mr. Tweedy can say anything he wants and it doesn't change a thing. He comes from where he comes from and inspires who he inspires. Who knows maybe the whole alt-country/No Depression movement might benefit from a "Pet Sounds" impact type of album. Then again as an artist I know that any press is good press. Dutch Crowd of One -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tweedy quote Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 1:30 PM Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that
Re: Tweedy quote
Tweedy should stop protesting (first it was the internet, now it's the alt.country tag) and try to write some decent songs. I'll gladly nominate Being There as one of the most overrated records of the 90s. There aren't enough good songs on there to make a good single disc, let alone two. Ha, it's like you never left, Dave. Welcome home, bub, we've missed your soft- spoken, unopionated self around here. NW
